00:14:49.000Um, and it's this perfect gateway for this, you know, this Gnosticism, this, um, conspiracy
00:14:55.820melted into christianity and a way to kind of like bolster your own intellect
00:15:01.280yep yeah it's it's uh it's a symptom of internet media yeah well um all right so i mean paul they
00:15:11.540already addressed the accusations against paul next 21 and he proved himself uh to be faithful
00:15:15.620walking orderly according to the law to the apostles so well it's going to be interesting
00:15:21.260to see because i think a lot of people right now if you look uh just at the the sentiment on um
00:15:25.720on X, people are killing her. They're dragging her left and right. It's, it's not a popular0.84
00:15:30.820opinion whatsoever, but even in that, you know, because you're taking a stance and you're saying
00:15:36.160something that's not popular, just that alone will galvanize people to the idea, right? If,
00:15:40.680especially if she's got, um, a passion. Like I said, this is the problem with, um, having a
00:15:45.860large following and then coming to Christ. Like I, we experienced this with, uh, um, me personally,
00:15:51.060I experienced this with young Don a few years ago. He found my channel, reached out to me on
00:15:55.160Instagram was like, Hey man, I've been, you know, binge watching your stuff. It's great. You want
00:16:00.340to do some shows together? I'm a new believer. And then he was like going through different phases
00:16:05.220of different denominational beliefs as he was like coming to the faith and he had no grounding or
00:16:10.060rooting. And then now he's left the faith, you know? And then so that my private conversations
00:16:14.540I would try to have with them, he wasn't trying to hear it. He wasn't trying to listen or go
00:16:17.960through a Bible study with me. Cause he was, um, he was, he had already said something on his show
00:16:22.400And he had like, you know, 500,000 subscribers or whatever on, on his Christian channel and on his, uh, animation channel, he had like 2 million subscribers. So he was already a large influencer. I don't know if you guys ever seen young Don and animations or whatever you guys, but yeah, basically like he ended up leaving the faith altogether. Like some Calvinists got ahold of him later and started going, some deliverance guys got ahold of him after that started going wild with his theology.
00:16:46.260and he just started shifting like the wind and then he had no grounding in the actual foundations
00:16:51.860of the faith and unfortunately he left the faith or and publicly announced it and you know one part
00:16:58.220of me i was like man i hope this wasn't just like a long logan paul type of troll on christianity
00:17:03.140just for views and content right i did speak with him personally and and went over the bible with
00:17:08.260him personally and he just really struggled with some aspects he didn't understand and then instead
00:17:13.260of just submitting himself to you know believing in god is going to reward him for truly seeking
00:17:18.460he ended up just making a bunch of wild statements online and then he's he feels beholden
00:17:23.420to those statements online because he's made them publicly yeah and so it that that whole thing
00:17:28.760about being online and having a type of fame it's uh it can become a snare you know it's tricky it's
00:17:34.560like the rich man uh you know it's hard hard for him to to get into heaven obviously and this guy
00:17:39.540he's probably rich too because he's got millions of followers but i'm glad that
00:17:42.860i was i don't know what like 15 to 20 something when i had this uh falling out with the faith
00:17:50.880you know like i i did that earlier and not in the public eye so i was able to kind of like go
00:17:55.020through it myself privately and who knows what i said but thank god i didn't say into a microphone
00:17:59.940to two million people or whatever it was like what a trap that is and and but also where what's
00:18:06.360his name young don yeah well this k podge girl i think she was an atheist and then became a believer
00:18:11.240and like a year and a half ago two years ago yeah and now she's already trying to teach advanced
00:18:16.080doctrine top and i have talked about right it's like if you're an atheist you have to get to the
00:18:20.080back of the line yeah thank you for being here but back of the line yeah you're not also like like
00:18:25.000listen people say things online and they say things on a show and they type things on twitter
00:18:30.500okay those are words even though they're recorded they're still wind you have room to change your0.71
00:18:36.560mind and if somebody comes back to you and they go you're a hypocrite just like i i changed my mind0.56
00:18:40.620that's it stand by your word if that's what you're really believing don't let that hold you0.88
00:18:45.660back from actual truth and and from from the salvation of your eternal soul some words that
00:18:51.600you said online yeah i like to think that on this show uh especially for my position because i wasn't
00:18:57.360raised Christian. And I think I do public learning. I do learning in the public eye,
00:19:02.660not teaching in the public eye. We make a lot of, we make mistakes. We're kind of like,
00:19:06.980we're going along the line. We were talking about it yesterday about traveling along this path.
00:19:11.480And you're kind of like, I don't know, we're trying to stay on it, but like we're weaving
00:19:15.160back and forth, but we're on, we're on the path. We're trying to be on the narrow path. Everybody
00:19:19.780is, and everybody's falling short of the grace of God. And we're just, you know, I was saying
00:19:24.620staying on the path but it looks different on the path some people ride a skateboard or a bike some
00:19:28.720walk some run whatever but we're all on the straight gate and narrow path you were talking
00:19:32.720about going off the path i was talking about yeah listen you're on the path but realistically kind
00:19:36.900of like people people move around on it it's like a ship yeah right you gotta yeah and of course
00:19:41.760correct but you're really keying in on the thing it's part of it's part of the journey and i wish
00:19:46.580i wish that i was i was like some people there's a guy like jeremy chotala that i grew up with this
00:19:50.740dudes on, as far as I could tell, I don't, I don't know every working of his, you know, his,
00:19:55.420his personal life, but he's been on the path his whole life. And you can see the fruits of that.
00:20:00.360The dude is like glowing when you see him. That's not me, you know, but I'm still, I'm still trying
00:20:06.560to be on that path. And, and as I, as I deviate and mess up there, there are other, like, you
00:20:11.720know, there's great things that happen because I'm able to pick up people and talk to different
00:20:14.780people and learn, learn from my mistakes. Maybe Jeremy doesn't know that maybe he, maybe he hasn't
00:20:19.980learn those things but that's your that's your walk with god just don't let it distract you
00:20:24.320don't let it stop you from going back because you did once say a thing and yeah before we depart
00:20:30.160from the k podge thing who knows this could just be a misstep or a stumbling block you know just
00:20:36.520on that path maybe she figures it out and she comes back we'll talk to her about it and if she0.97
00:20:40.580says no we'll beat her up i could i'll yeah fine truth or con i'll beat her up i'll beat her up at
00:20:44.940truth or con use promo code nd squad for 10 percent uh all right we have to have to change
00:20:49.600that to sean connery con that's right that's right woman doesn't paul have something uh to say about
00:20:56.140women uh taking uh speaking positions in the church or talking about um uh scripture isn't
00:21:03.500it specifically a don't do that i don't i don't know maybe that's where the problem comes from
00:21:07.400doesn't really dive well i've read and i've been told that the cultural context of the corinthian
00:21:12.120church was that the women were being trained in Corinth to be witches, basically, to be mouthpieces
00:21:17.820of the false gods they served, like Athena and Diana, things like that. And therefore, when they
00:21:22.720became believers, it was kind of like an overly exerted rule that Paul wanted to give to the
00:21:31.520Corinth women because they had already been promoted in culture to be so free to speak
00:21:37.700and authority over men and that's just like not what the bible teaches right so that's where he
00:21:43.340was uh trying to like give extra rules within that congregation that's what i've read anyway as far
00:21:47.900as you know obviously i'm not there back in first century corinth so it's hard to say but i do know
00:21:52.240obviously that the prophetess's aspect of false god and idol worship was a big deal i mean like
00:21:57.960you had the the oracle of delphi was a woman and she was giving prophecies to kings and dignitaries
00:22:03.280And, you know, I mean, they look to her as someone important. And so that could be an aspect of that. But at the same time, I think as a blanket, male or female, you just need to know the actual Bible first before you start trying to talk to a million people and say that you've got doctrine figured out.
00:22:18.240Yeah. I mean, that's probably a safe bet.0.95
00:22:28.260Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've already dismantled one person. Let's now move on.
00:22:31.220We've had on a couple of Orthodox people, and we've had our arguments with the Orthodox, and they're very forceful and strong about the traditions of their church and how they date back, and there is not an unbroken line, and they are the one true church, and we just go, okay, I don't think so.
00:22:49.260Even as far as saying if you're not baptized in the one true church, then you're technically not.
00:22:53.600Yeah, I'm also not going to read thousands of pages of their doctrine to figure out what they're doing.
00:30:08.740He's the high priest of the covenant of Israel.
00:30:11.020And even as far as other, like, apostles go, it's like, okay, I get it how you could read that passage and say, oh, he's saying he's building the church on Peter.
00:57:26.540And Telus Forrest is actually, I included him in my Christmas video where I was defending Christmas against some claims from the Hebrew Roots crowd.
00:57:36.000But Telus Forrest was one of the guys that is in his writings mentioning how believers were getting together in the early second century on their own volition, not by decree of a church leader.
00:57:45.900They were just getting together on their own volition to celebrate what they thought was
00:57:50.060the birth of Christ and the incarnation of Christ through the woman Mary, because it
00:57:54.140was being attacked by docetists from the Gnostic community.0.52
00:57:57.480And so they just started their own tradition of getting together and saying, no, no, we
00:58:00.260do believe he was incarnate and that he was not just a spiritual being without flesh.
00:58:07.980So that's Telesphorus's time period, which is like after John the Baptist and 40, 50
00:58:15.100years after the siege of jerusalem by the romans so there's a gap right there in their writings
00:58:21.820there's a gap right there in their writings about wait a minute we don't have
00:58:24.780like these hebrews these these direct descendants of hebrew secession bishops from jerusalem that
00:58:30.380are hebrew that stopped and then we're picking back up here in the second century tell us for us
00:58:36.300and how long is that gap 50 60 years depends on the on the you know i would say maybe 40 at the
00:58:42.380the minimum. But the point is, but yeah, it's half a generation. So the idea though is people
00:58:48.120say, well, John the Baptist or John the apostle was still alive. And then he went, he gave his
00:58:52.040secession to Polycarp and then Polycratus and some other guys from Smyrna and things like that.
00:58:56.260And Timothy, that's fine. That's okay. You can have that. But even if you have an unbroken line
00:59:03.280of secession, what would break secession? That's the bigger issue of doctrine. What would break
00:59:08.600succession. Just like in the same way, uh, the, the next 21, the group of apostles in Jerusalem,
00:59:14.720when Paul came back from his third missionary journey, they said to him, we've heard some
00:59:18.320things about you. Let's have a little chat, right? He got pulled into the principal's office.
00:59:22.160You know what I'm saying? And they were like, Oh, we've heard these things about you that you're
00:59:25.140taking people that don't have to walk according to our traditions and law of Moses. And, and then
00:59:29.240there's like, so prove that this is wrong. Go, we have four men already ready to take a vow.
00:59:33.540These are converts by the way, and pay for their expenses. And you go take a vow offering too.
00:59:38.600So a vow offering was, in the law, it was to show that you were dedicated to Yahweh0.67
00:59:42.680and that you were circumcised in your heart and to Yahweh,
00:59:46.520like that you were vowing your allegiance to Yahweh, okay?0.65
00:59:49.520And it required you to go take an animal and do a process.
01:03:18.240but i might be wrong here i don't even agree with baptism like in the church that i go to they were
01:03:23.480talking to my kids about baptism like yeah seeing if they wanted to get him interested and my kids
01:03:27.420started talking to me about i'm like what the hell do you know about like it's it's it's a weird one
01:03:31.760i'm not sure but i'm like i feel like you should understand what you're getting into before you do
01:03:36.080back if it's a posture of your heart how could that be how could you have posture of your heart
01:03:39.660you're eight years old you don't know anything i'm not saying there's not some eight-year-olds
01:03:43.180out there that something happened you know be knowing something i'm not you know but it's like
01:03:47.100Yeah, the idea, like you tell us, Matt, is like you're leaving the enemies of your life on the other side of this water, kind of like the parting of the Red Sea.
01:11:26.220It seems like a little bit like witchcraft, so we're turning this into blood now.
01:11:29.980In modernity, we just call it superstition.
01:11:32.620Like you're, you're applying metaphysical aspects to this concept that's never taught in scripture and to say that it must, you must keep eating this bread in order to maintain your salvation.
01:11:42.240That's the reason why I've listed it here under seven required sacraments, because they claim that you're not saved if you stopped eating the Eucharist.
01:11:48.900And I'm guessing you got to get it from them on top of it.
01:23:02.780that's what a prophet is. So this is why Jesus in Hebrews 3 is called the apostle of God, right?
01:23:07.980So this is where he's a sent one from the Father. But then below the prophet was your bishops,
01:23:14.820elders, overseers, pastors, deacons, that kind of thing, okay? So this is why the apostles had
01:23:20.020authority as they did given to him from Jesus. And the whole idea there is though they were
01:23:26.580constantly addressing bad doctrine in their letters and even other people teaching bad
01:23:31.840doctrine. Like in first Thessalonians, they're teaching that the resurrection already happened.
01:23:35.100He's like, no, no, no, no, it hasn't. You know? So then in chapter four, he has to then go on to
01:23:39.960explain the details of the resurrection and how it hasn't already happened and everything. So
01:23:43.560yeah, this is, this is why doctrine equals authority. It's never just a session of lineage
01:23:51.400or nepotism. Otherwise the, otherwise the rebellious Levites who went, who rebelled against0.85
01:23:58.560their righteous fathers and became unrighteous priests in ancient israel there would there0.75
01:24:04.540would no be chastisement for them they would there would be nothing wrong with them but instead they
01:24:08.160were called wicked they were ousted they were expelled the whole book of malachi is yahweh
01:24:12.740chastising unfaithful priests because they were not doing what's right you know so like that's
01:24:18.620where um you just because suddenly you're not a priest but now you're in a different like an
01:24:24.140overseer slash pastor elder deacon setting suddenly you can't just start adopting unsound
01:24:29.980doctrine and then continue to be an authority like you're you're going against the entirety
01:24:34.360of the bible's example right so that's where the next points start to come up who wrote the bible
01:24:39.620though stop yeah who that's the crazy part if they said that that might be something but they
01:24:46.900don't even say that their argument's weaker than that they say who gave you the bible yeah who gave
01:24:51.760you the bible yeah you mean like oh you mean you just compiled manuscripts at your availability
01:24:56.020back in the day before there was the internet and you put them together and said this is our
01:24:59.420collection we like and your collection didn't even agree with people across the mediterranean
01:25:03.660sea the ethiopians and the oriental orthodox group who has a different collection oh and that
01:25:08.440collection is different from the armenian collection like these guys their their claims
01:25:14.040are just claims guys you just have to remember that they these are the same people that claimed
01:25:19.040i'm the captain no i'm yeah exactly i was gonna say that it's so funny it is it is um you find
01:25:26.340that there's an abundant of contentious intellectuals that cleave to it and and
01:25:32.100meaning specifically that there's like a personality type that cleaves to it and i think
01:25:37.520even top has pointed out on this show that there's like oh they don't like this yeah it's a very
01:25:41.880specific personality type and they like again you you've just come across the wrong person
01:25:45.840to try to pull this scam on because like someone who like me who's been in the faith since i was a
01:25:50.980kid and also went through this like weird libertarian phase where i'm like i was working
01:25:55.340in the libertarian party doing stuff for them and i've seen all you guys come through that phase and
01:25:59.400i've seen what you were like before little authoritarians come into uh libertarianism
01:26:04.400adopt those philosophies reject them because you realize you need god but puffed up because of
01:26:09.400their political ideology so that's another intellectual star on their chest directly
01:26:13.620into the orthodox church and i was like there's a through line here guys yeah and like i'm like
01:26:18.160i'm one of you i've seen this i've seen this ladder there's also seems to be a through line
01:26:22.560for ex occultists which is interesting yeah but i mean let's let him continue yeah yeah yeah this
01:26:27.760might get uh interesting here okay go ahead can you put that uh sure pdf back on okay so basically
01:26:37.980um here we go to where were we um your body is always giving you signals whoop helps you
01:26:44.920understand them whoop is the wearable health and fitness coach that provides personalized
01:26:49.460insights into your sleep recovery strain and overall health to help you make better decisions
01:26:55.120every day whether you're training working traveling or just trying to feel your best
01:26:59.820whoop shows you what helps your performance and what might be holding you back listen to your
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01:27:11.740This episode is brought to you by Spreaker, the platform responsible for a rapidly spreading
01:27:15.780condition known as podcast brain. Symptoms include buying microphones you don't need,
01:27:21.260explaining RSS feeds to confused relatives, and saying things like, sorry, I can't talk right now,
01:27:26.280I'm editing audio. If this sounds familiar, you're probably already a podcaster. The good news is
01:27:32.360Spreaker makes the whole process simple. You record your show, upload it once, and Spreaker
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01:27:53.140at Spreaker.com. Spreaker, because if you're going to talk to yourself for an hour,
01:27:58.200you might as well publish it so we went to to eusebius's church history documenting this stuff
01:28:04.540but then we uh we can go now to um let me see here uh number three they forced believers away
01:28:12.800from biblical sabbaths so this is something that you get and we can address colossians 2 16 and we
01:28:18.820can address hebrews 4 if you like but the the documented history of christians for three to
01:28:25.460400 years was that they were still keeping the weekly Sabbath and the festivals, the yearly
01:28:30.980festivals of God. If they weren't, there'd be no reason for them to have special meetings to
01:28:36.400anathematize people who try to keep them still, okay? So this is why they did. They had a sonata
01:28:42.240letter to the Church of Alexandria and Constantine's letter to the churches, preserved by Eusebius.
01:28:47.780The letter of the Council of Nicaea to the Church of Alexandria says,
01:28:50.680We also send you the good news, the settlement concerning the Holy Pascha, which is the Passover, the Sabbath, the Sabbath of the Passover, which is the meal you eat at the start of the seven day festival unleavened bread.
01:51:14.580canon 37 adds to this and says it's not lawful to receive portions sent from the feasts of jews
01:51:20.940or heretics nor to feast together with them so therefore now christians are banned from
01:51:25.860passover first fruits shavuot tabernacles day of atonement all that kind of stuff
01:51:30.740who's right the the roman government this is the councils of laodicea right um authorized by the
01:51:38.500roman government this would be under i can't remember the emperor at this time so i think
01:51:42.820Oh, but the Jews really, I mean, I've heard it explained where the whole Bible is just Jerusalem versus Rome, you know, that like you could, you could look at it that way, you know, which Rome, Babylon, that they go hand in hand and that these are the two opposing forces.
01:51:57.760here's where the uh here's where the the how do i say this um
01:52:03.600jewish communities even still to this day i'm sorry that's my second i don't know why my phone
01:52:10.880vibration is on even to this day jewish communities like messianic congregations0.51
01:52:16.560who are filled with mostly jews who've come to christ they believe that things like the dietary
01:52:22.200laws the um the sabbaths both the weekly and the festivals throughout the year that they're
01:52:27.060considered Jewish identity markers. Okay. And that that's their cultural identity marker and that
01:52:33.380Christians can still serve the God of Israel, but they don't have to do those identity markers
01:52:36.280because they're not bloodborne in the sentence of Abraham. This is just a carryover from the
01:52:40.120Pharisees. You guys, in Matthew chapter three, remember when the Pharisees came out to see John
01:52:46.040the Baptist? What does John the Baptist say? Who told you to avoid the coming wrath? And then he
01:52:50.020says, do not suggest to say that you're just because of the seed of Abraham, but you should
01:52:54.660show fruit, your work should be fruit unto repentance, right? Because that was their
01:52:59.140claim. The same thing in John chapter eight with Jesus, the Pharisees would claim,
01:53:02.500we are descendants of Abraham. Your body is always giving you signals.
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01:53:11.480personalized insights into your sleep, recovery, strain, and overall health to help you make better
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01:53:55.780whole process simple. You record your show, upload it once, and Spreaker distributes it
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01:54:10.960might someday pay for, well, more microphones. Start your show today at Spreaker.com. Spreaker,
01:54:17.940because if you're going to talk to yourself for an hour,
02:03:45.420Whoop is the wearable health and fitness coach that provides personalized insights into your sleep, recovery, strain, and overall health to help you make better decisions every day.
02:03:55.240Whether you're training, working, traveling, or just trying to feel your best,
02:03:59.420Whoop shows you what helps your performance and what might be holding you back.
02:29:31.120and they decreed it so with the following hundreds of years. They decreed that you must
02:29:35.480agree with this philosophic explanation so that you can be considered an actual Catholic Christian.
02:29:42.540And that's at the bottom of these creeds that I had on screen, is that they're saying that
02:29:46.280that's why they say that Jesus was light from light and God of God, because they're appealing
02:29:51.720to the same essence. And that the Arians were saying, well, he was not the same essence. He
02:29:58.400was something different because he's created, he was begotten of the father. Okay. So that word
02:30:03.540begotten, they argued about that. And I have a quote, we can, maybe we can pick this up at a
02:30:08.820different time, but I have a quote that even Arius in against heresies. Okay. So this is
02:30:13.300Irenaeus, excuse me. This is Irenaeus. This is the co-eternal, co-equal three persons, right?
02:30:21.180This is the Athanasius Creed. Athanasius was a pit dog. Like he was a, he was a rabid pit bull0.99
02:30:27.580for the trinity okay so he was he was ready to anathletize anybody that disagreed with their
02:30:33.980explanation of the trinity um and he was basically saying this is the catholic faith you must believe
02:30:38.900it otherwise you get eternal horror fire so this was his athanasius creed some people today like
02:30:43.840did you guys know that like william lane craig doesn't even agree with the athanasius creed
02:30:47.680today i don't even know who that guy is okay all right well he's like he is like top dog
02:30:53.780trinitarian debater for the last 25 years yeah he's like a most people know who wlc is but
02:31:01.340the point is i'm not saying you guys are i'm just saying in the world of online christian
02:31:06.560debates when it comes to like you know there's always a trinitarian debate happening every day
02:31:11.820of the year and william lane craig is like the dude he's like one of the top guys that
02:31:16.020that debates for the trinity and he doesn't even believe in the athnation creed because he doesn't
02:31:20.200believe that the son could be eternally begotten so when you actually look at the what the words
02:31:24.280mean right which is what i've been trying to break down for you guys the word begotten means made
02:31:28.560uniquely made but according to the trinitary doctrine you cannot admit that christ was made
02:31:35.160because their philosophic presuppositions would make you also say that if jesus was made then
02:31:40.920he's not god he's not of the same essence but i think the scripture points to what when and when
02:31:46.820that saying that he's saying this day have i begotten me when he when he was raised when he
02:31:51.940was raised from the dead there's there's two times you could look at that you could potentially look
02:31:56.500at it in the womb of mary but i think in acts when it quotes psalms and it's saying this day
02:32:01.420have i begotten me it's uh i believe in acts they apply that to the the resurrection right
02:32:07.600so if this part doesn't get cut out uh expect to get a phone call from some of your trinitarian
02:32:13.080friends that's an incredible anti-trinitarian argument right there matt no we're not gonna
02:32:19.060cut anything out that you're saying it wouldn't apply to that no i'm saying what you're saying
02:32:24.460is accurate according to the scriptures but that's not what trinitarians teach and believe
02:32:27.920they teach that the son was eternally begotten before creation and what that means is that
02:32:33.540they call it eternal generation of the son in some documents okay and nobody can explain it
02:32:39.000it's just language they added to try to make sure jesus was not of a different substance than the
02:32:44.480father and that was not in the category of created and what do you what do you think exactly let's
02:32:50.960get to that because i'm like so confused now it leads back to like the foundation of the church
02:32:55.940where jesus says well who do you say i am and then peter makes that declaration it's like well
02:33:00.080peter didn't have these arguments john's holding out dude he's like building up the system what
02:33:03.700what did peter say what did peter say mark 8 28 and 29 let's read it he said you are the christ
02:33:10.560the son of the living god right right he didn't say you're of the same essence with the father
02:33:15.780and homoousias and hypostatically linked and yeah and all that extra language just gets so
02:33:20.420complicated yeah i don't think he said you are the one sent by god the christ the messiah the
02:33:25.460anointed one like that was the big deal like jesus in john chapter 8 the pharisees are like
02:33:29.960how dare you claim to be a son of the father that means you claim to be equal with god no he
02:33:34.300didn't he said over and over and over like john chapter was it 14 28 he says my father's greater
02:33:40.420than i or he says and and um um he says in john i've got the verses here on the on the pdf he
02:33:48.060says in john uh 12 49 my father teaches me what to say and how to say it john 7 16 my doctrine is
02:33:54.420not my own it's my father's he says only come to do the will of my father like that's his whole
02:33:59.300like summed up in this in one sentence he was the perfectly obedient son of father so what we were
02:34:04.100just describing with all that language from those councils and creeds in the fourth century is
02:34:08.340philosophy and the philosophy was really concerned about how can something come down from heaven
02:34:14.920and interact in our realm and not have a problem ontologically these are all philosophical
02:34:21.560presuppositions guys this is why it doesn't make sense this is why matt's firm his brow he's like
02:34:25.980what does that even, that sounds crazy. No, he just doesn't. No, I'm very like, yeah,
02:34:30.600the philosophy is what messed me up. I'm like, let's just stick with what the scripture says.
02:34:34.180Exactly, brother, because that's not what the scripture says. The scripture says that God made
02:34:37.820everything from his breath and his spoken word. Like, breath is a real thing. But philosophy,
02:34:44.100guess what? Philosophy, and this is what most Trinitarians teach, but the average person who
02:34:49.100holds to the Trinitarian idea, they don't know the deeper nuances and details of the Trinitarian
02:34:55.120doctrine but i've had entire debates with this did you guys know that trinitarians
02:34:58.900as an official doctrine teach that the father is immaterial i don't even know what that would mean
02:35:05.000that immaterial like that's a good you can't you can't see him you can't touch him there is no
02:35:11.140actual there's no actual physical material of which he's made of oh no yeah but that's not
02:35:17.120biblical either watch the debates i've had on it and you'll see the wild gymnastics that they go
02:35:22.880through to try to claim it is. When I pull up all these verses, it says he has hands, a feet, hair,
02:35:27.840a heart. He has a soul. He loves us with his soul. He has a robe. He has a face. He has eyes.
02:35:35.580Jesus says in Matthew 5, 8, the pure in heart will see God. Well, they're already staring at
02:35:40.640Jesus, so they're not talking about him. Jesus is talking about his father, right? The pure in
02:35:44.960heart will see. When do you get to pure in heart? Oh, it's through the resurrection, right? That's
02:35:48.100the promise of the covenant, right? The hope of our redemption, Romans chapter 8, it's the
02:35:51.480resurrection that's when we can be with god and we can see him as he is wait is your take then
02:35:57.280that uh like the millennial reign takes place jesus comes and rules and reigns on earth for
02:36:01.480a thousand years and then ultimately that's when he's able to present it to the father and like
02:36:06.200that's when that's when we would see him no the father is coming with at the start of millennial
02:36:11.760reign the father is coming to the earth that's actually going to be in point six or seven i think
02:36:16.060But, but, but when we're talking about the, the, before we get away from the idea of what was the foundation for the Trinity doctrine, it was guys arguing about philosophy and yeah, they added script, just like anybody can add a scripture to disappoint their point, but you just assume the definitions of the words from that scripture to, to affirm your point.
02:36:33.320okay but so that the assumes the things that they assume is when they say that jesus was the son of
02:36:39.060god immediately they're assuming philosophy that he must be of the same essence and if he's not
02:36:43.380then he can't actually be from god and all we're saying is who cares right well this essence thing
02:36:50.500it does matter since this this kind of does matter because like when you're just like when
02:36:55.520you're addressing a prayer like for me i'm addressing and maybe this is wrong too but like
02:37:00.200i never i never will address the holy spirit it's always like i am praying to god and then
02:37:05.560in the name of your son right jesus told us right yeah to the father right so yeah but yeah i don't
02:37:13.360but these creeds these creeds i had on screen here we didn't get to get to go through them but
02:37:17.520they say that the thought that the son is almighty not the father we want sean's take
02:37:23.120yeah what is your godhead so it's very simple wrap it here and and very simple let him say it
02:37:28.060very simple okay that the father does have a is called spirit and john 4 24 right and some
02:37:35.500translations will even say the spirit he's called the lord of spirits in the book of enoch he's he's
02:37:40.760seen in multiple visions enoch daniel um you know some would even say moses on mount sinai um he's
02:37:47.480seen in multiple places multiple visions to actually have a form it says in genesis chapter
02:37:52.1001 verse 26 we remain his likeness and image two concepts image and likeness right not some people
02:37:57.700say the word image just applies to authority, that Adam was given authority on the earth,
02:38:01.140but it also says remain his likeness. Same thing in James 3, 9. Remain his likeness,
02:38:06.060the likeness of man we were created after God's likeness. So he has a form, he has a physical
02:38:11.980form. Now the presupposition of Trinitarians who appeal to Neoplatonic philosophy is that God can't
02:38:18.680have an actual body because he's too powerful. Your body is always giving you signals. Whoop
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02:38:51.580This episode is brought to you by Spreaker, the platform responsible for a rapidly spreading
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02:39:36.420to talk to yourself for an hour you might as well publish it you can never contain it in an actual
02:39:41.600form so that's just a presupposition the bible doesn't say right but that's where they start
02:39:47.220Okay. They say the body, there's no body of the father. He's immaterial. You can't see him. You'll
02:39:51.800never see him. You'll only see Jesus. You'll never see the Holy spirit either. So effectively you
02:39:57.760only will see Jesus representing all three persons, but you just have to believe there's
02:40:01.060three persons there. See, this is the stuff they don't tell you when they say we believe in the
02:40:05.880father, son, Holy spirit, we're Trinitarians. They don't tell you the hundreds of years of
02:40:09.120philosophy that was argued and all the details. And then you start raising your hand and asking
02:40:12.700questions going wait a minute uh how does uh how does why jesus said we'll see god i don't
02:40:19.200understand first timothy uh chapter 1 verse 17 says there's only one god first first corinthians
02:40:26.8808 6 says that only god's the father to us is only but one god the father and jesus christ is the only
02:40:33.160lord you know why did jesus say i return to my god and your god to thomas right what's going on here
02:40:39.820how does God have a God? Okay. And that's where there's a lot of issues and arguments that go
02:40:45.620into this. But the point is, that's why I put the definition of our God on screen.
02:40:50.160The Trinitarian doctrine doesn't appeal to the definition of our God. It makes up a new
02:40:53.640definition based on philosophy. So the biblical definition of God is a ruler, someone in a place
02:41:01.100of authority. And then you just have to look at the context to see what are we talking about?
02:41:04.440Are we talking about the almighty God? The one Deuteronomy 10, 14 says is in the heavens of the
02:41:07.920heavens, the most high. Or we're talking about his son who has given his authority by God, right?
02:41:16.060It's like Acts chapter 5, 29, 30. He was made God and Lord. He was made prince and savior.
02:41:22.660So he wasn't always had the same authority as the father. He's not the almighty. The father's
02:41:27.080the almighty, right? I'm just asking if you guys, are we tracking? No, I'm tracking where my head
02:41:34.160is going it's it goes back to that verse where it talks about um jesus christ being the the the
02:41:38.900word made flesh and then you're talking about like the breath and the word that was used to
02:41:42.260create the universe like like it's i don't know it's it's and then it's not even what's with god
02:41:47.460and was god in the beginning right so like so what's god mean uh well it's got a bunch of0.93
02:41:53.700definitions you had on the screen earlier right none of them were homo seous
02:41:58.760so anything above the heavens generically is considered a divine being or a god but it doesn't
02:42:08.740mean they're the most high that's why he has the actual descriptor the most high he's a he's he's
02:42:13.800above all the others right he's the lord of spirits an angel is called a ministry and spirit that
02:42:18.480comes out from heaven so you what you're establishing here is a hierarchy yeah yeah
02:42:23.860Yeah, that's what the Bible establishes.0.93
02:42:26.160I guess it makes me anti-Trinitarian too
02:42:27.960because that's always been nice to me.
02:42:29.500A hierarchy within God, within the Father,
02:42:32.120within Jesus, and within the Holy Spirit,
02:42:33.820but they're all God, but there's a hierarchy within that?
02:42:36.900Well, I mean, there seems to be a delineation, right?
02:42:38.900Like I pray the same way that Top prays.
02:42:41.200Like I pray to the Father in the name of,
02:42:43.960incorrectly, sorry, in the name of Jesus Christ.
02:42:47.360And then if there's a mention of Holy Spirit,
02:42:50.640I pray that Holy Spirit is sent for aid.
02:42:53.120on me yeah yeah yeah um but yeah i mean there's there's but i never prayed to the holy spirit
02:42:58.680which i'm like am i slighting this guy okay but we still gotta figure out what sean is saying
02:43:02.600like we're still like yeah i think i'm picking up what he's saying what i'm saying is look when
02:43:08.240jesus was sent to the earth to become incarnate through born through the woman mary he didn't
02:43:12.720maintain some philosophic essence and and connection to the father in a greek metaphysical
02:43:19.440away like he became a human he became a man right so like in the philippian letter i think it is
02:43:26.260where it's more or less says that like he stripped himself like he's no longer emptied himself he's
02:43:31.720no longer what did he empty himself of i mean there's a lot of things you could look at right
02:43:36.120like his ability to be everywhere at once i forget what that yeah omnipresence like uh i don't know
02:43:41.200all of all of the things where does it say that the sun was omnipresent okay so tell me what you're
02:43:47.520saying then because you're just you're just throwing out god right that was just well from
02:43:52.960a great philosophic standpoint that believes in omnipresence and omniscience and like all those
02:43:58.480things and all those qualities all those attributes that they force into the definition of the word
02:44:02.360god so that's i was just saying he was a with the father in a different form a different spiritual
02:44:09.940form right angels are called they're but like first corinthians 15 describes two types of
02:44:14.320bodies right there's a spiritual body and then there's an earthy body
02:44:18.900okay so at the resurrection we're promised to get a spiritual body
02:44:23.320a resurrected body right yeah but it's called spiritual right that's why it says in first 45
02:44:29.900the last atom became a life-giving spirit so okay because i'm looking at philippians
02:44:37.620And it says, so if you go from like two, five, let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, who from who being in the form of God.
02:44:50.240So that's interesting, like in the in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God, but made himself of no reputation and took on the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men.
02:45:04.100No, do you want to read that in a good Greek translation?
02:45:09.080You're reading out of the KJV, aren't you?
02:51:44.420then he is God, just like Jesus is God, but not on the level as God the Father.
02:51:51.060So the Bible describes the Spirit of God to be the Spirit of Yahweh, the Almighty.
02:51:56.760Okay, got it. So not even like a third, like a separation at all. It's just the breath of God
02:52:03.260the Father. Well, the word Spirit is defined by definitional strictness to be breath or wind
02:52:10.740or spirit. Ruach, is it ruach? The Hebrew word is ruach, right? The pneuma is the Greek word,
02:52:17.380okay? But then we see different applications of the word spirit. You can see the word spirit
02:52:21.140applied to the Almighty, the Father. You can see the word spirit in 1 Corinthians 15, 45 applied
02:52:25.800to the resurrected Christ. You see the word spirit applied to ghosts and unclean spirits
02:52:30.260in the Gospels, okay? You remember when Jesus was walking on water and the disciples saw him
02:52:34.700from the distance and they were afraid, thinking he was a spirit, right? So they didn't think he
02:52:39.220was an angel they were afraid he was a ghost in the same way whenever he appeared in the locked
02:52:43.300room in john 20 and they were startled thinking it was a spirit he's like no look spirits don't
02:52:47.260have flesh and bone like i have touched me right so again the philosophy claims that the spiritual
02:52:52.460world doesn't have any type of flesh but yet first corinthians 15 argues implicitly that the glorified
02:52:58.600resurrection we're going to receive will have spiritual flesh like you'll have a spiritual
02:53:03.340body even says in verse 38 of first corinthians 15 someone will ask what type of body will we be
02:53:08.740raised in. And then he spends the next 15 verses explaining to you, we'll be given a spiritual
02:53:12.740body. Angels have bodies, but they have, but it's physical material bodies. Angels can touch,
02:53:20.160they can eat, they can kill, they can, they can kill people. They can break Peter out of prison.0.99
02:53:25.460Like they can do stuff in the, in the material world. They just have a higher capability.
02:53:29.700And Jesus exemplified that same type of new body after his resurrection.
02:53:35.000I think what people get all messed up about is like when you're saying this, like I'm tracking with what you're saying, but it feels like the issue would be if people got to the point where they go like, you're diminishing Jesus's role or something like this isn't saying.
02:54:11.400So Hebrews 2.17 says that he was made like his brethren in every way, so that he might become a faithful high priest in service to God in order to make atonement for the sins of the people.
02:54:21.020Right, he's advocating on behalf of us, essentially.
02:54:24.980That was what was prophesied of him in Psalm 110.
02:54:27.240Psalm 110 is actually repeated multiple times in the book of Hebrews to draw out that fact.
02:54:31.820He was prophesied to become a high priest in the order of Melchizedek, and that's how he attained salvation for us.
02:54:37.820That's how he makes atonement for our sins, and then he's going to be given authority by the Father to raise us to eternal life on the day of judgment.
02:54:44.260Right, so you're not taking a different stance on the role that he plays in our salvation.
02:54:48.680It completely is integral to our not perishing.
02:54:51.920what you've been what you're what you don't respectfully i'm not saying that you're
02:54:56.220you're doing this um maliciously but what you may not realize you're appealing to is what's
02:55:01.360called penal substitutionary atonement doctrine you guys ever heard that term before no i have
02:55:06.060i don't know what it means yeah it was made popular uh by calvin and martin luther out of
02:55:12.940reform reformation all right and it was uh it was a tweaking it was an augmentation of what was
02:55:18.980considered the, uh, you know, stolen valid or doctrine or the, uh, honor, honor atonement
02:55:24.660theory or satisfaction, sometimes called satisfaction theory, right.
02:55:28.140Which was, um, this idea that you basically, uh, because of your sins, you deserve death.
02:55:36.140And then Jesus, who was sinless step in your place and now has received the punishment
02:55:41.360that you should have received for your sins there, thereby making atonement for you with
03:02:58.700Whoop is the wearable health and fitness coach that provides personalized insights into your sleep, recovery, strain, and overall health to help you make better decisions every day.
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03:03:24.300This episode is brought to you by Spreaker, the platform responsible for a rapidly spreading
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03:04:02.120well more microphones start your show today at spreaker.com spreaker because if you're going
03:04:09.420to talk to yourself for an hour you might as well publish it just quickly because i do have to go
03:04:15.280but uh where does like like as we're as this episode has gone on there's been sprinklings of
03:04:20.620things that are not in the bible and where does that lead an entire generation or
03:04:30.280an entire generation of believers if if uh these things are not really salvific issues but they're
03:04:37.800all kind of detours what what's the point of it it it leads to them arguing about does the holy
03:04:46.360spirit flow from the father or from both the father and the son and splitting the entire body
03:04:51.160of faith in half in the 10th century called the filioquatus the disagreement that's what what's
03:04:56.340what created one of the underpinning theological disagreements that created the holy roman catholic
03:05:00.560empire versus the orthodox empire and then it creates the partisan reformation as they continue
03:05:06.320to enforce things are not biblical and the people start to rebel and that's what they
03:05:21.920When people come in and they say, look, if you don't describe the son this way, even though we both believe he came down from heaven and is the son of God.
03:05:29.980But if you don't describe him with the exact language we want you to use, you're out of the faith.