Nephilim Death Squad - The Evil Eye w⧸ Zack Killey - Matthew 6

00:00:00.800 A lot to talk about today. First off, happy birthday, Bella Eloise. Bella's 21. So we're not hanging out tonight, but tomorrow we're going to go out to dinner and then she wants to get some drinks.

00:00:12.560 Happy birthday. Very cool. That's exciting. We got that. We got Shane Cashman's moving down here.

00:00:17.120 We don't know if you can't announce that. Shane Cashman's not moving down here.

00:00:21.260 It'll be very cool because we've got the big studio. It's a really good place for the rest of his family instead of like around all the crazy stuff.

00:00:28.220 we're excited for that august 19th i think is the move uh he's not moving um then we got the boomers

00:00:34.860 that was cool that you guys got to see how the boomers get down it's definitely something i don't

00:00:38.860 know cool they had concerns they were upset you say what was the expression they used i don't like

00:00:45.900 this yeah yeah she just went straight to it right when i said hey hold on guys sorry they have some

00:00:52.620 it was a hot intro too i know we do this all the time communication

00:00:59.980 um all right we're good okay so yeah you were saying the boomers do you want to do are you

00:01:07.840 going to do your hot intro over again i don't know did do we miss all that

00:01:11.900 it's still going no we should be good okay so was there just no audio that whole time oh no

00:01:18.440 mic on raven we're just crushing there's only one mic can you guys hear everybody now yeah they

00:01:23.920 should be able to hear did my mic work for the beginning you gotta forgive us because uh after

00:01:28.040 unpacking and repacking and getting everything set up for bohemian grove this is the first time

00:01:32.440 we're setting up this studio panda says it sounds like caca uh sounds like i'm hearing from a

00:01:37.520 speakerphone in the other room great sound okay yeah i fixed it okay top is miked all right he

00:01:42.860 always is he makes sure his is good we hear y'all but it's fuzzy and jim says we're good okay we're

00:01:47.500 good we're good we're back okay thank you guys thank you that the the the chat doubles as a

00:01:52.980 production team they help us to zero in on this so so you were saying can you guys hear all of us

00:01:58.800 right now can you get some confirmation thumbs up if so okay you good now you good now all right

00:02:06.800 matt is good now thanks fj hey shout out to quag no you good yeah okay okay so uh yeah so the couple

00:02:13.160 of things that we um yeah where is turning 21 bella's turning 21 very cool so that's exciting

00:02:18.440 august 11th and uh little known fact my niece bella's cousin what's wrong with your knees

00:02:24.740 turns uh 20 today they have the exact same birthday one year apart oh really so happy birthday cousin

00:02:30.180 ava that's very cool she lives in cali she's really cool shout out to cousin so we got that

00:02:34.160 we've got shane cashman's moving down here shane cashman's um august 19th i think he's moving down

00:02:39.360 so um we'll have like a four-person team in here if you will uh which will be really exciting okay

00:02:45.980 cashman does a lot of really cool stuff i'm surprised that he would like come down to our

00:02:49.980 level but well he's gonna come and visit we're gonna have him in studio uh i just have to

00:02:54.160 clarify because you say all sorts of things and people believe them yeah and shane cashman's not

00:02:58.160 moving you don't know that he's not dude uh i have it on good authority because he said

00:03:03.080 that he's just coming down here and he's no no but some things have changed in his life in the

00:03:08.280 last week or so and potentially he would move here i mean i'll put it out there i would love

00:03:12.600 to have cashman be a part of what we're doing here he'd be a tremendous addition to uh you know

00:03:18.080 just this whole operation but but he's coming down to do a irl show on the 19th not to move

00:03:23.800 his entire life he's just coming down to like find a spot like to look at land what's so wild

00:03:28.440 about this is we've already had this entire conversation like 10 minutes ago in this exact

00:03:32.980 same fashion yeah and we're doing it again well matt has not heard you it's also fascinating

00:03:37.320 because for people that see the way that i argue with matt on the show and then he very sternly

00:03:42.180 says you've never told me this thing or like this is a great example of like yes i have we've been

00:03:46.760 very explicit with each other but by the end of this show we'll be arguing about whether or not

00:03:50.800 shane cashman is moving down here or not okay all i'm saying is you don't know for sure that he's

00:03:55.140 not moving i was very explicit again uh only moments ago but uh he's potentially moving here

00:04:01.080 i didn't hear that at any point in any of these conversations is the same as me saying he is we

00:04:05.720 don't know i feel like shane cashman moving here is like the same possibility as me moving here

00:04:11.180 due to the fact that i am currently here and i'm not i knew you wanted to move here too

00:04:15.160 you're actually breaking news to him right now by telling him that you're not moving down here

00:04:20.180 a lot of people come here and they're just like yeah why wouldn't i live here i the humidity

00:04:24.380 that's fair really brutal no it's you're just at the worst oppressive humidity it's not been

00:04:29.040 treating you well no it's very sad you can farm you're around a lot of fruit trees i'm a big boy

00:04:34.280 I'm corn-fed Indiana folk, and this is great.

00:04:37.400 You and your family would love it here, bro.

00:04:38.940 I do like the heat.

00:04:39.800 I'm a fan of the heat.

00:04:40.480 But, yeah, nevertheless, Shane Cashman not moving down here.

00:04:43.720 Sorry to break the news, but look forward to seeing him in the TRL.

00:04:45.320 But we'll be visiting.

00:04:46.500 He will be visiting.

00:04:47.260 It's going to be great.

00:04:48.640 So, Top, you look great, man.

00:04:51.480 Do I?

00:04:52.080 Yeah.

00:04:52.600 Yeah, I look shady out here.

00:04:53.920 You do.

00:04:54.260 You look like you're up to no good.

00:04:55.780 I don't think you're shady.

00:04:57.780 All right, so what we're going to do today is we're actually on Sermon on the Mount,

00:05:01.680 episode 22, Top.

00:05:04.280 yeah so we're sermon on the mount episode 22 this is going to be a very special hybrid episode

00:05:09.640 uh because zach's going to sit in with us we're going to jump into zach's like life story if we

00:05:15.800 can and then roll right into the matthew 6 19 through 24 that we're already in on stray bible

00:05:21.880 let's do it we're already in sermon on the mount uh series on stray bible so to do a little back

00:05:27.380 and forth because they get from 19 to 24 is going to be several weeks of episodes anyway so this

00:05:32.920 will just be like right in the middle of that where you kind of chew on the whole thing i really

00:05:36.940 hit 1920 and 21 last week but it's but it's really all one section for sure so first off

00:05:43.020 we'll probably have to reference it quite a bit but yeah yeah so right from the jump can you just

00:05:47.340 tell us a little bit about like your story how you came to christ how long you've like known the lord

00:05:53.560 what your upbringing was and how you got connected with uh nds yeah bible um so i uh i was raised in

00:06:01.620 the church um christian household um they they taught me well i mean to know who god is to

00:06:09.280 understand the fact that there is a god i can honestly say at no point in my life have i ever

00:06:13.840 really wrestled with like whether or not there's a god i've seen him too active in my life in my

00:06:18.600 family's life uh but i kind of i guess my story is pretty commonplace in that you know i did the

00:06:25.900 thing where you get into high school and then you just go off the rails you become edgy you get edgy

00:06:31.160 well the thing is dude i was like a super nerd growing up and i've reverted back into nerd

00:06:35.400 past being cool because uh cool didn't work so hot uh but i i did the thing in high school where

00:06:42.680 it was like i was good at music and my high school actually cared about music so like choir was like

00:06:48.920 a big deal in my school for whatever reason and so i kind of leaned into that and then i started

00:06:54.320 church choir too yeah kind of like i did some like special music stuff at church i would play

00:06:59.140 on the band occasionally but like not not so growing up in church you weren't like part of

00:07:04.200 the part of like the leadership or whatever no like on stage but you were just raised in the

00:07:09.260 church you weren't a coveted member were you a coveted member of your church a covenant member

00:07:13.200 were you covered in member i don't know and also we need to know what denomination uh i mean it

00:07:19.280 was a you know quote unquote like christian church so i think that's technically disciples

00:07:23.020 of Christ, but it, they never put a ton of emphasis on the, like you're saved by baptism

00:07:29.540 thing that the disciples of Christ can lean into. So it was a pretty, almost like non-denominational

00:07:35.520 kind of feel, or at least that's what I got out of it. So maybe they were a little more expressive

00:07:40.160 in some of those things and I just didn't pick up on it. But, uh, you know, uh, or high school got

00:07:45.340 off the rails. College got worse because then I was just like, I had no oversight. My parents are

00:07:51.080 not there to stop me uh where did you grow up at and where did you go to college at so I'm from

00:07:56.100 I was born in a small town if you know who John Mellencamp is in a small town that's my town

00:08:01.460 that I grew up in so Seymour Indiana yeah you know it you know it uh it it was chill it was fine

00:08:08.300 uh small it's not that small is the thing it was like it's small but it's like 30,000 people

00:08:14.200 um and I mean it was cool it was cool upbringing

00:08:21.080 a party school and did my thing there what state is all this this is indiana okay got it god i'm

00:08:28.740 sorry indiana weird place by the way i was talking on a previous show and uh there was that show when

00:08:33.480 we were growing up called uh eerie indiana yeah it's kind of like goosebumps but india and it's

00:08:38.580 actually a great show holds up really well my son was watching it and there's a little thing for the

00:08:44.400 audience from you know nds because you know we share some people in common uh matt and us but

00:08:49.640 they had this episode where this guy got braces you know he had a big contraption like they used

00:08:54.860 to do um you know in all the cartoons the helmet yeah kind of like the helmet braces thing it's

00:08:59.020 like a big you know like the gear right with the wires and everything and he starts picking up the

00:09:03.360 thoughts of his dog and it's just funny because we talk about that all the time it's that's like

00:09:08.420 the lucille ball picking up yeah exactly exactly well i've said previously that throughout like

00:09:13.420 looney tunes and a bunch of other cartoons childhood entertainment they will uh insert

00:09:17.980 that theme you know just getting braces picking up music picking up people's thoughts eerie indiana

00:09:23.560 i think it's like the first episode they do that it's it's and it holds up it's a good show my son

00:09:27.420 is pretty into it right now yeah i mean indiana is definitely weird a lot of high strangeness

00:09:32.020 yeah cults and whatnot yeah a lot of cryptid yeah for sure um but i don't know it was chill

00:09:39.900 it wasn't it wasn't anything crazy it was your normal childhood and did the whole falling away

00:09:44.400 thing in college uh cheated on a girlfriend uh which sent me a downward spiral no way bro that

00:09:51.460 was not not good um so you had a chick and like uh just something happened at a party one night

00:09:56.900 yeah i actually like i did give him way too much detail but like i i right i like i stopped the

00:10:04.480 process you know what i'm saying and then ended up calling her and telling her and then that

00:10:08.680 didn't work out well that just like my fragile little brain at that moment dude like i snapped

00:10:13.180 And I was like, well, eating well shouldn't be complicated, but somehow it turns into recipes, prep, cleanup, and half your Sunday gone.

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00:11:11.080 factor Canada's number one meal delivery service I guess like which this is where I was at at the

00:11:17.140 time I was like well if God's not gonna like save my relationship even though I did the right thing

00:11:21.360 here by stopping this and telling her whatever that didn't save the relationship I'm just going

00:11:25.640 all the way off the rails so I like committed to it which is not good don't do that uh and then

00:11:31.680 that you know you start drinking like crazy sleeping around like crazy and it falls apart

00:11:36.300 uh so i do what i said who'd have thought yeah who'd have thunk it uh i hit kind of this rock

00:11:43.840 bottom spot dropped out of college and i knew i was bad because my parents when i told them they

00:11:48.580 were like okay it's like oh no like they think they know this is all this coming right and so

00:11:54.940 they let me leave school i went back i got my uh license in uh cutting hair and i started a rock

00:12:03.320 band and then we toured around for like i don't know five years trying to go make it and we had

00:12:08.540 some decent successes and whatnot but like all that stuff was like christian music no no you

00:12:14.540 were going hard yeah what was it like comparable to what was this band like we called it angsty

00:12:18.860 white boy music because that's what it sounded like that's fair it was like i mean like okay

00:12:22.980 like we played with like fuel a few times we played with or we played we opened for joan

00:12:28.420 jet cheap trick heart uh you guys were like really good no i mean we were solid we weren't

00:12:34.460 famous or anything i sang in the band um but it it just kind of perpetuated all the crap i was

00:12:42.000 trying to escape you know what i'm saying because now it's like oh well now i drink for free now i'm

00:12:46.520 doing this thing where girls just approach me instead of me having to go and it was bad and

00:12:51.140 that debaucherous lifestyle is part of the image what was the music like though like i gotta know

00:12:55.200 i get it you opened up for them but like what's like a it was like blink 182 or we started very

00:12:59.520 like pop punk and then we progressively got harder and harder like it went like more like probably

00:13:04.800 like breaking benjamin sort of vibes like breaking benjamin yeah i mean it was goofy you know looking

00:13:10.400 back i'm kind of like okay that's awesome you gotta play in a rock band that is cool i've heard

00:13:16.000 so you know growing up and and having my friends that were musically inclined it is not out of the

00:13:20.880 realm of possibilities to open up for bands like that no um i knew a bunch of guys who like got

00:13:27.080 that far it's what's interesting is the the you know i guess maybe just for people out there that

00:13:31.860 have bands that are inspired to make one it's like you could if you get your shit together and

00:13:36.800 it's you know good music that goes for all the things in life though not just bands it's very

00:13:41.040 much so crazy you do like aiden's going through it now where he's like at work and figuring out

00:13:47.360 like oh everybody's not a rocket scientist like when you're a kid you just think everybody that

00:13:52.380 they're whatever they do for a job everything every mouth is so steep yeah and then you get

00:13:56.660 into you start living and you're like well that guy's actually not that bright like i feel like

00:14:00.180 i could do that we used to uh i used to do mixed martial arts and it was very common to like know

00:14:05.140 a guy or like to to train with um uh mickey gall or or something like that like all these different

00:14:11.360 people were pretty accessible once you enter that community it's just a it's just a matter of what

00:14:16.820 I guess what I'm getting at is taking those first few steps and actually

00:14:20.160 dedicating yourself to it.

00:14:21.380 These things are pretty achievable.

00:14:23.020 It's interesting.

00:14:23.780 And I guess music is not an exception.

00:14:26.160 Well, I mean, in a similar fashion,

00:14:27.220 I didn't even have a podcast and I reached out to Matt and you guys let me

00:14:30.240 come on here and talk about the 501c3.

00:14:32.440 Right.

00:14:32.820 And then y'all convinced me to go get back into it, whatever.

00:14:35.980 And here we are.

00:14:36.700 But, you know, you got to reach out to people.

00:14:39.580 You got to shoot your shot.

00:14:41.160 And a lot of times people will just say yes, you know, so.

00:14:43.720 you were the first person to ever like reach out to me once we once i first got on the show

00:14:48.300 we were kindred spirits we really were talking about if we close that nobody will we won't hear

00:14:52.980 any noise do we need that oh i can close it i got it i got it okay um but basically coming out of

00:14:59.860 all that uh i i somewhere in the middle of band years uh we actually had a house fire in 2017

00:15:07.060 what do you mean we my so i lived with my family at the time and uh they had a giant apartment

00:15:12.660 yeah exactly and so i kind of worked for my parents when i wasn't touring and where we'd

00:15:18.000 play bar shows make money go out do that thing we had a house fire and we lived above our business

00:15:22.700 so we lost everything what was the business uh they owned a cosmetology school and so they taught

00:15:27.820 people to go there and we lived above it the the fire took out all of it oh wow and so then we had

00:15:34.060 this like three month gap where we didn't have anything other than a pile of insurance money

00:15:38.540 dog well no not really because the insurance agent filed it wrong so we only got money for

00:15:44.060 the business but we lost everything in our house insurance is the biggest scam it truly is it

00:15:49.560 truly actually this bible survived the house fire it had like 1.1 million gallons of water

00:15:55.160 poured on top of it i've heard of that there was a tornado here uh geez it's probably been 20 years

00:16:00.740 ago now that came through lady lake and like people died and stuff and one of the churches

00:16:04.660 that blew over i knew a guy roger green went back to his you know like when you sit in the same spot

00:16:10.980 every sunday he just kept his bible there went back to that spot like dug through the rubble and

00:16:15.540 his bible was in there and it's cool it's crazy i mean it's three times the size it was originally

00:16:19.460 but it's just from the water that's awesome yeah but um after that i i took a job that summer with

00:16:27.780 a buddy of mine who read meters because he convinced me he's like dude there's good money

00:16:31.140 it you don't have to do it forever worst like month of my life i did not last long it was awful

00:16:35.700 walking around from house to house right like 12 miles a day on foot kind of thing like also like

00:16:41.300 electric electric meters yeah like pepper spraying dogs kind of thing uh not my favorite and so i'm

00:16:47.960 like walking all these miles every day i'm dog tired i'm in a relationship with a girl at that

00:16:53.120 point where we're living in sin like we're sleeping together we're doing everything wrong

00:16:57.000 her i didn't cheat i never did that again i've never like that ruined me like that broke me

00:17:01.480 that moment because it at that moment just to talk about that like up until that point in my life i

00:17:05.880 thought i knew who i was and that was something that was totally outside of anything i could see

00:17:10.520 myself doing yeah so i think just seeing like oh crap i'm capable of things i didn't know i'm

00:17:15.640 capable of yeah totally reframed my view of myself and so that's what kind of sent me into that

00:17:21.480 downward spiral but no i mean we we were still doing everything wrong even though i was like

00:17:26.200 loyal to her. I was not loyal to God, right? So I fall asleep one night. And this part's kind of

00:17:31.880 fun because I've actually, I wrote this into NDS Chronicles to tell a little bit of my story back

00:17:36.240 in the day. How long ago? A year and a half ago. It's been a while. Eating well shouldn't be

00:17:43.040 complicated, but somehow it turns into recipes, prep, cleanup, and half your Sunday gone. Factor

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00:18:40.280 one meal delivery service but i fall asleep and i have this dream and i don't remember my dreams

00:18:47.720 very well i am not david i don't remember every detail of every dream i've ever had i remember

00:18:52.460 every detail of this dream vividly and i wake up or like i you know in the dream i like

00:18:57.760 kind of come to and i'm in this field and it feels like i'm in this like uh backwoods sort

00:19:03.780 of brown county indiana you probably don't know what that is but it's just like brown county i

00:19:08.520 can take a guess from hanging out with the raven oh heavily no no no no actually we're talking

00:19:15.280 indiana there's not a ton of that i think i drove i may have drove through part of indiana

00:19:20.980 uh because we headed just kind of west in a straight line and then somewhere around indiana

00:19:26.020 we started to head southwest uh you hit all the mountains um well i guess hills yeah just like

00:19:33.100 vast expanses of nothingness like hills and nothing hills okay so brown county is thick

00:19:38.220 forestry like it's like i mean it's like nothing but trees it's very very pretty it's the prettiest

00:19:43.540 part of the state um but it's like i'm in this kind of open field at the edge of like a tree

00:19:49.020 line and i've got a cornfield in my back and then i've got a fence behind me and there's like a

00:19:53.580 glow of a fire but i don't remember a fire and i remember this naked red-headed woman starts

00:19:58.320 stepping out of the dark and she's walking towards me oh and she gets up to me and i wrote in about

00:20:04.820 this right yeah yeah yeah and i remember thinking like this chick is evil like i knew that but i'm

00:20:11.260 also like not pushing her away and not shoving her away and she gets up to me and she like i let

00:20:17.940 her embrace me right dream flips and now i'm standing on top of this hill and it's like these

00:20:23.380 rolling green hills just as far as the i can see beautiful blue clear skies and i turn around and

00:20:28.960 there's this big white house on the hill and then off to my left there's this pond and it's pouring

00:20:34.840 over the side of the hill and i'm sitting there thinking to myself like i wonder where that goes

00:20:38.940 and so I get down in the water and I start swimming out to see if I can see the edge

00:20:43.740 and all these things start I get pulled under the water and there's all these little black

00:20:47.580 shadows in the water and they're trying to drown me and so I'm like trying to kick them off of me

00:20:51.320 kick them off me and I finally get them off of me and I pull myself to the edge of the water

00:20:56.160 and I stand up I start running and these things are coming out of the water chasing me so I run

00:21:03.500 to this white house. Cause I'm like, well, maybe, maybe that'll save me. And I can't find an

00:21:08.960 entrance. There's no doors and all the windows sit too high to get in. But I'm like, this is my

00:21:13.460 only chance is like somebody opens a window and lets me in or something. And so I keep running

00:21:19.500 around this thing. They eventually retreat back to the water and I'm like, okay, cool. That's fixed.

00:21:24.840 But I still don't know where that goes. So I walk around the water this time. And when I get out to

00:21:30.160 the edge i see that this pond is pouring into a river and there's all these families down on like

00:21:37.280 floaties playing in the water i i think in the uh when i wrote into chronicles i said it reminded

00:21:43.180 me of the episode it reminded me of terminator 2 where sarah connor is at the playground shaking

00:21:48.840 the fence and she can't get the people to look at her but i'm screaming at them and i'm telling

00:21:53.540 them hey there's something in the water you got to get out of the water you got to get out of the

00:21:56.760 water and they're just looking at me waving dream stops i wake up and i am like covered in sweat like

00:22:03.340 just drenched bed and i am freaking out i've got this one thought planted in my head it's

00:22:11.120 two ideas and it's one that that woman in the dream's name is tiamat and i didn't know why

00:22:18.460 what that meant that's crazy and the second is that i'm supposed to tell people about jesus

00:22:23.740 and so it's the next night i go out do the job whatever and i go back to bed that night and i'm

00:22:32.260 laying there and i'm like okay you ate something bad it was just a weird drain just go to sleep

00:22:36.300 and i can't so i get my phone out and i look up tiamat and it tells me that she's the babylonian

00:22:42.780 goddess of the chaos of primordial man and of converging waters and at that moment i'm like

00:22:49.620 oh crap like that's not like literally the pond that's converging into a river right and so like

00:22:55.420 that sends me i go talk to my local pastor i'm like hey look i think god just told me i'm supposed

00:22:59.920 to be a pastor like because in my head that's what that meant like you're supposed to go tell

00:23:04.220 people about jesus i'm like oh that's what pastors do i'm supposed to be a pastor how long ago was

00:23:08.480 that 2017 yeah so it's been a hot minute um and he like talks to me he's like well you know dude

00:23:19.060 like if you can think of anything else you would rather be doing, do that because this job is

00:23:24.560 brutal. And if God's still putting it on your heart, then you need to pursue it. And I took

00:23:30.400 the next year of my life and I got a job in a kitchen because, you know, my parents got the

00:23:35.640 shop rebuilt and everything. But I'm like, I don't know. It feels like that chapter closed. Like I'm

00:23:39.180 supposed to be moving out, doing my own thing now. I've got to pursue this. So I just started

00:23:44.340 study in the Bible for about a year. And I said, like, you know, I've always started at Genesis

00:23:49.260 and I make it about through the end of Genesis. And then I'm burnt out because it just gets too

00:23:53.420 weird, too hectic. There's a lot of names and genealogies and never would get through it.

00:23:59.320 And so I was like, I'm just going to read the New Testament. I'm going to read the words of Jesus

00:24:02.480 and the letters about Jesus. And so I read through the entire New Testament in about

00:24:06.640 a year. And at the end of that year. Because you were steady in it every day and just reading slow

00:24:12.680 or because you're having a lot of gap i was trying to like comprehend yeah yeah so it was every day

00:24:17.260 but it was like i was really trying to process what i was reading yeah so i was really like

00:24:20.880 i'm gonna take this time to do this i'm gonna know what it's saying i get to the book of revelation

00:24:26.360 about the end of that year and i get to i think it's it's like revelation 17 18 19 somewhere in

00:24:33.460 there and it says and to that whore that sits on many waters yeah and i get to that and i'm like

00:24:40.600 oh my gosh like what is this and it says uh like it's it's over the course of these three chapters

00:24:48.040 so i'm summarizing a lot but he basically says that that's babylon and she's drunk on the blood

00:24:53.440 of the saints and it says come out of her my people because inside of her is every unclean

00:24:58.240 thing every filthy thing and he's saying like basically like you got to get out of this thing

00:25:03.400 you've got to come out of this system you got to come out of this goddess this beast this monster

00:25:07.620 because it's going to kill you and i realized at that moment like god gives me this crazy weird

00:25:12.720 dream very kind of prophetic sort of imagery and the the whole message is just dude stop sinning

00:25:21.200 and go tell people about me but it took that weird shake me awake give me all this weird imagery

00:25:27.060 moment of like this is where you are this is who you are this is not going to work if you're in her

00:25:32.120 come out of her go tell people about me and so it's like it's woo woo but it's not you know what

00:25:38.740 i mean like it's very basic it's very straightforward yeah this is like um i try to

00:25:43.460 explain to people and i actually i really hope that this topic was going to come up when we

00:25:47.620 were talking about how do you hear the voice of god it's it's different for a lot of people but

00:25:52.180 a lot of us he talks to us through dreams dude and i think uh for me especially in the beginning

00:25:57.580 um i think he was like you just don't shut up like when like when you're awake and you're like

00:26:05.020 worked you're praying whatever just your brain is going and going and going like the best time i can

00:26:11.140 get at you is when you're just asleep that and like physically exhausted i think really helped

00:26:17.040 because it was just like i'm done i'm beat yeah but that's where he met me but i think that's a

00:26:22.620 number one way that god speak and so he communicated to you in a way that was just like a lot more

00:26:27.660 intense he could have just you could have been in prayer and he could have said hey you know come

00:26:31.480 out of her like come out of that system and go preach that but it's just sometimes he speaks

00:26:35.900 like different like more intense well and what's so crazy about that story and just a couple more

00:26:41.880 little woo-woo kind of tidbits to add on there um after telling my parents some of this uh my

00:26:48.700 parents told me this story about when before I'm born uh well sorry it was right after I'd been

00:26:53.300 born I was a baby and uh my dad is holding me on the couch one night he falls asleep with me holding

00:27:01.120 me and he wakes up and there's this woman in white standing in front of him and she tries to take me

00:27:07.340 from him and so he stands up and he's pulling me back to himself and he starts screaming for my mom

00:27:12.640 and when my mom comes in the room there's nothing there and he tells her the whole account he's like

00:27:17.100 no this happened i'm like i'm telling you this is real i'm not asleep this is real um

00:27:21.700 wait here that so this wasn't this was a dream your dad no this was real in real life a lady

00:27:27.280 came and tried to grab you out of your dad but then just gone like apparition kind of thing so

00:27:31.280 you take that at the house i take those two stories and i can't unsee the similarities of

00:27:36.820 like like is this that babylon language of like trying to lay a claim on a life and it's like

00:27:42.100 it's just the hand of god and so i'm talking to my mom about that six months ago dude she messed

00:27:45.960 me up in the car. I was taking her up. She had cancer a couple of years ago. And so I take her

00:27:50.060 up for her, well, was taking her up for her infusions and everything. And she starts telling

00:27:56.780 me, she said, there was actually a time when I was pregnant with you where I stopped feeling you

00:28:00.160 kick. And she said, I just started praying to God because it had been like a long, it was weeks that

00:28:05.020 I hadn't felt you kick. And I was like, did I lose the baby? And she said, I started praying to God

00:28:08.640 and I just said like, Hey, please save my son. Like if you save my son, like I will dedicate

00:28:13.380 him to you i will train him up in the ways of you i'll teach him who you are i'll tell him all about

00:28:18.840 you he's yours this child's yours and dude like that messed me up because i'm telling you everything

00:28:23.920 in me like who i am but your mom had never told you that until like adulthood like now yeah um

00:28:29.920 she just committed to telling me about god she didn't tell me the you know weird part of the

00:28:35.360 story yeah um but like that that felt heavy for me because i'm telling you like that whole verse

00:28:42.920 about you know even when we are not faithful he's faithful my whole life even now dude there's so

00:28:48.160 much in me that like tries to get away from God that tries to do my thing the flesh you know and

00:28:54.160 like I'm not great at shutting it off all the time and still he just pulls me back every time and he

00:29:00.000 puts me back on the right track and so I that just that that landed heavy and I kind of put those

00:29:05.920 three stories together and it's like I just see God how he's been present the whole way through

00:29:10.340 my story even when I was totally unaware of how involved he was in bringing me back to the course

00:29:17.240 this is a weird thing to me dude because like uh not my parents but like my grandparents

00:29:22.680 knew the lord but like never other than when I was like like four years old and my grandma told

00:29:30.180 me like yeah god's here right now they didn't like like I'd get to my grandma my grandma grandpa's

00:29:35.100 house and my grandpa would be like reading the bible but they never like sat me down and said

00:29:38.340 bro let me tell you the story of reality like they never did that and i don't know what that was

00:29:42.780 about but that kind of just reminded me of that if your mom like sat on that for so long and your

00:29:48.320 dad sat on that for so long and like never told you i wonder if some people just pray and they

00:29:53.740 don't actually tell you it was sort of like we would spend our time as our family for instance

00:29:58.400 like growing up you know my mom would read me storybooks but so many of the stories she would

00:30:02.880 me it'd be like this is david and goliath okay well this is jonah this is moses this is yeah

00:30:08.960 she would just tell me bible stories same that's how we taught our kids yeah and so like that was

00:30:13.600 all imparted on me and so when i went off to school and other people had no idea about these

00:30:17.200 things like i don't think that ever clicked with me yeah but now i really see your brothers and

00:30:21.680 sisters or my yeah i've got a sister totally different situation or younger younger she

00:30:27.200 She doesn't love the Lord?

00:30:28.180 No, not at all.

00:30:29.320 Yeah.

00:30:31.100 And she was raised to.

00:30:32.660 Sure.

00:30:33.280 So she's a lesbian.

00:30:35.220 We'll give her time, man.

00:30:36.640 The last big conversation we had about God, I basically looked at her and I said,

00:30:40.720 hey, look, you know I don't agree with everything you're doing in your life,

00:30:43.860 but you know that, and I'm not going to sit here and tell you that.

00:30:47.700 I said, what I want for you is to know God.

00:30:49.760 I want you to know Jesus.

00:30:50.800 I want you to know that he loves you, that he cares about you.

00:30:53.500 We'll talk about all that other stuff some other time,

00:30:55.700 but you need to know that's who he is and that hasn't landed with her yet that's okay because

00:31:00.580 she just sees like she looked at me and she said you know why would a god who if a god would make

00:31:05.460 me this way and hate me for it hate this part about me then i don't want to love that god

00:31:10.820 yeah that's a wild discussion because i'm like i was born with a ferocious appetite to snort

00:31:15.460 oxygots but i i don't know i just wasn't like oh if god made me this way and doesn't it's like no

00:31:20.020 no i get it like i'm in a war and there's stuff in my being that i need to like work on and change

00:31:24.900 yeah you see that there's two people inside you there's the old man that's being put to death and

00:31:28.500 then there's this new creation she has no understanding of that but you're telling her

00:31:32.420 the right thing you're not saying like hey stop hooking up with chicks you're saying like hey

00:31:36.020 go after god that's what i want they'll deal with it yeah i mean if she actually seeks god then that

00:31:40.740 other stuff will fall off later you know that's just how it works we we can't not be changed by

00:31:45.280 yeah so basically after that i i went and applied at a church and i said hey i've got zero pastoral

00:31:56.040 this is still like 2017 ish or this is 2018 okay uh and that's the church i'm still at which is

00:32:02.020 funny because my youth leader at the time was like there's no way this is going to work they

00:32:05.640 hired you as an assistant position you're going to fall off in two years and now i'm a pastor at

00:32:09.360 it but i uh no that's that's that's a very intriguing thing dude it's like the people

00:32:14.600 who want it they go get it well i i'll i'll speak to some of that real quick but like basically i

00:32:21.460 applied with a music video for my band because i hired on as an assistant worship leader

00:32:26.760 and i said i've got no training in like you know seminary for any of this but i know how to play

00:32:32.620 music and they'll take you for that they hired me and over time i was apprenticed by we don't

00:32:39.120 have a we don't have a lead pastor at our church we have a shared leadership model so we elders

00:32:43.240 plural well it's they use the word pastors same word yeah exactly um people don't know that a lot

00:32:50.460 of people don't know that but elder overseer pastor it's all the same thing but yeah we have

00:32:54.260 four pastors there is no lead that's cool so it's all shared and we all just kind of lean into our

00:32:59.840 own giftings these dudes just all trained me up and then they commissioned me dude i love that's

00:33:05.460 like a biblical model modern church dude uh it's not in a lot of ways but yeah yeah but in that

00:33:11.740 regard yes our pastoral team is incredibly healthy dude and those dudes i love those guys they're my

00:33:15.860 brothers like they and and it's funny because like i'm 33 jason's 50 randy's 70 bob's somewhere

00:33:24.180 in his 60s and so it's like we've got this kind of span across the generations and we all just

00:33:29.280 kind of come together and we're all working together all on the same page so it's healthy

00:33:33.700 man but i've been in that ever since i've got a lot of qualms with the 501c3 and yet i feel

00:33:39.480 i've tried i've tried to run away from it i've tried to walk away from it i tried to quit three

00:33:44.460 weeks ago i'll be honest with you you did i did oh what were you gonna tell us you sandbagging

00:33:49.380 well they they look dude it's like i started in those conversations people are like yeah but look

00:33:55.500 at all this good that god is actually doing outside of the system and they start pointing

00:33:59.160 it all out to me and i'm sitting here and i'm like if i'm not gonna stand in the gap and try

00:34:04.860 and prepare people for where this thing's headed if i'm not like i i am in it i literally told them

00:34:09.420 i said stop paying me they're like we're not gonna stop paying you please stop paying me

00:34:12.880 they're like we're not gonna stop paying you i was like well fine but for the time being this

00:34:18.720 isn't gonna work forever but i'm gonna stand in the gap and i'm gonna just try and prepare people

00:34:23.780 for the fact that i think we're headed for a future where this system is not going to be here

00:34:27.640 Like we're told them straight up like that.

00:34:29.660 I've told them that from the stage.

00:34:30.840 Yeah.

00:34:31.180 You mean the deterioration specifically of that 501c3 model, like everybody's kind of accustomed with.

00:34:35.820 So you guys use the 501c3.

00:34:38.340 I think the more accurate term, and I use that because that's how people kind of talk about it.

00:34:42.400 Sure.

00:34:42.780 But I think the more accurate term is the church growth model.

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00:35:45.300 i think that is the problem uh because that's the system that is built on we count our wins by how

00:35:51.720 many baptisms we got how many people are sitting in seats how much expansion have we had and how

00:35:56.080 much money is coming in and so like i think that's the issue the 501c3 like you got to think

00:36:02.080 charities are 501c3s right you know what i'm saying the only way that phrase came up is i

00:36:07.720 was just calling it like the denominational church and that's why i've never people that say

00:36:11.500 uh well we're non-denomination well you call it like the song and show like yes it's announcements

00:36:16.020 five songs and a speech i don't care which denomination that that's what i'm calling the

00:36:20.300 501c3 so so what are you looking at specifically i mean i'm sure we can we've talked about these

00:36:25.820 things on on all these shows and throughout all these conversations but what makes you think that

00:36:29.960 this model is going specifically that model that that's going to deteriorate that's going to fall

00:36:33.900 for every one church that opens two two to three close um currently that's currently that's the

00:36:40.060 stat that's fascinating because we are in the middle of what people are characterizing as like

00:36:45.000 a resurgence now given these stats are all from a few years ago so they may not be updated but i'm

00:36:50.360 telling you two to three years ago this was what was happening and just from what i'm seeing i'm

00:36:54.220 not convinced that the resurgence is totally real it's not because yeah no kidding well i think what

00:36:59.400 has to happen is i mean this is like this the seeds in the soils like the seeds will go out

00:37:03.940 they'll take root but not all those are gonna last that's a good yeah and so i think you saw

00:37:08.620 this seed planting era like i'll be i had a buddy a buddy's dad who was like hey man i'm really

00:37:14.580 wanting to you know look into how do i take this to the next step well let's talk about let's talk

00:37:19.000 can't can't talk to him about it and i hear this from a lot of people where it's like they had this

00:37:24.100 upsurge around the charlie kirk stuff exactly yeah and then it's kind of just fallen back into

00:37:30.400 the well and i think i kind of saw it kicking up even before that where all of a sudden a lot of

00:37:35.160 athletes were christians like a lot of like famous people were christians and even right there i was

00:37:40.380 like i don't know we've talked about that it's like is it is it and maybe this is exactly what

00:37:44.980 you're describing or at least what is causing that seed to not really take root and not grow

00:37:50.060 into anything is this idea that it's not for a love of the lord or a pursuit in developing a

00:37:56.380 relationship with god as much as it's just a pushback against a system that you don't like

00:38:00.620 And that system is just like a cultural one, a political one, left-leaning ideology, cultural

00:38:05.540 rot.

00:38:06.000 And so you galvanize to Christianity because it's a stark contradiction, but that's not

00:38:10.560 trying to develop a relationship with God.

00:38:13.320 That's like almost spiteful.

00:38:15.440 Which is why I think you're seeing this huge uptick, and the chat's probably going to crucify

00:38:19.360 me for this, but that's why I think you're seeing such an uptick in people coming to

00:38:23.980 the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox faith, because they're going to it because they want an

00:38:28.640 institution that will look at them and go these are all the answers this is exactly how it works

00:38:33.680 you don't think we think for you it's identity politics no that's not going to hate you for that

00:38:39.520 i've got a lot of flack for saying that on what do you mean why um you're disparaging the eastern

00:38:44.320 orthodox church it's like no i'm not i'm telling you how i see it well they hate the jews too and

00:38:49.680 that's big right now i mean that's a thing that definitely they're getting points like i'm not

00:38:53.520 i'm not taking either side on that topic i'm simply saying the fact that they're like hate

00:38:56.880 the jews that's bringing a lot of people in too man z-man says something that's actually pretty

00:39:01.040 insightful he says is christianity becoming the counterculture and is is it me christianity has

00:39:05.760 always been the counterculture true christianity is different than christianity that's counterculture

00:39:13.200 the christianity that's counterculture that's you know going to create like a christian nationalism

00:39:17.200 or some sort of debate bro or some sort of intellectualizing scripture is really just a

00:39:22.700 form of culture that you're adhering to and culture is almost always just a product of the

00:39:26.720 world you know outside of true christian culture anything else is just a product of the world so

00:39:31.440 you're adhering to this like scarecrow version right this uh this straw man version but there

00:39:36.920 is this christianity that's becoming not counterculture it's becoming culture and like i

00:39:41.760 really like how you're saying it there's a resurgence but it's just the sowing of the

00:39:45.200 seed that's the resurgence and pause at the same time i do think there is real there's real sure

00:39:50.140 one out of one out of four in that story is real right exactly and so those those are the ones i'm

00:39:56.540 just realizing i've got to give all of my attention to yeah i've come to a point in this ministry i'm

00:40:00.740 like i cannot be here to make old people happy or to make people who are culturally christian happy

00:40:07.540 i have to give all of my time and my effort to the people who are out here trying to do the thing

00:40:13.000 and i'm just going to focus on them and we're going to go make disciples who make disciples

00:40:18.060 I believe that's what everyone is called to do. I believe that is literally the function of

00:40:23.280 humanity is to be fruitful and multiply. That's the first thing God says to humanity. The thing

00:40:28.500 is that's recommissioned through Jesus at the great commission. It's be fruitful and multiply,

00:40:32.940 but not by having kids. So it's by making disciples of every nation. Amen. So as soon as you see

00:40:38.600 somebody's just kind of play time, you're like, Hey, love you, but I'm moving on. I'm here for

00:40:43.800 you when you get real. Yeah. Yeah. Same. That's my thing too. Top things I mean to some of the

00:40:47.940 young people. And I'm like, dude, I'm just not going to play this game with you guys. Like you're

00:40:51.540 on fire for God because you went to church camp. And I told you straight up, like history is

00:40:55.660 littered with tons of people who were on fire for God for six weeks or six months after church camp.

00:41:00.400 And then they, but it was never serious. Right. So I'm the same way. I'm like, come back and get

00:41:04.680 me when you're serious. So I actually restructured our entire youth program. We had a guy previously

00:41:09.900 that was using like orange. I don't know if you know what orange is. They make curriculum for

00:41:13.940 kids it's all sjw social justice junk and it never like we didn't talk about the gospel in a year

00:41:19.480 wow it didn't come up at youth focusing on and i straight up asked i said when's the last time we

00:41:24.980 talked about the gospel no answer no answer at all okay so i took it over to try and fix it to

00:41:32.680 the best of my ability i am not a youth guy let me be oh sec what is so if it's not talking about

00:41:37.020 the gospel in a year what is the curriculum focusing on how to how to be different around

00:41:42.460 you know if you're different it's okay to be different and don't judge other people for me

00:41:46.480 different it's like pseudo-christian it's like the things jesus teaches without the emphasis on

00:41:51.740 salvation uh i remember one teaching it's like when you take love and you and you twist it and

00:41:56.720 turn it into something and you throw a pizza party and some dodgeball and some kickball and

00:42:01.240 next thing you know you get like a really cool group of kids especially in the south you get

00:42:04.740 this cool group of church kids they're like yeah we're the we're the church and don't get me wrong

00:42:08.120 some fun is cool. People bond over fun. I think that's good. Community is good. But when the fun

00:42:13.400 becomes the focus, you're missing it. So I shifted it to a discovery Bible study model where all we

00:42:19.960 do is we pull out the Bible, we all sit in a circle, and then we read it together. And then

00:42:24.940 I ask four questions. I say, what did you like about it? The second one, I say, what didn't you

00:42:29.020 like about this or what was difficult about this? And for a lot of kids, that's the first time

00:42:32.640 they've ever been allowed to answer that question about the Bible. The third one is, what's this

00:42:36.440 tell us about people the fourth one is what does this tell us about god or the holy spirit that's

00:42:40.120 crushes dude and so that's that is how we study the bible at youth people love the bible too like

00:42:44.920 the more you get into it the more people like what you're saying is like oh you want me to engage i'm

00:42:49.520 not just a spectator here to watch the show i actually there's going to be a back and forth

00:42:53.560 people love that what's really hard though is you've got the kind of the traditional church

00:42:57.300 culture pushing back the whole time going sure when are we when are we having a youth camp when

00:43:01.540 we doing this when are we when are we and i'm going i don't care these kids don't know the bible

00:43:06.420 yet they got to know they got to know the first things before they worry about the fun and like

00:43:10.740 yeah the system's like let's send them on a missions trip it's like no they're not going to

00:43:13.940 save themselves like what do you totally do send the kids on a hundred percent and like we at our

00:43:19.380 church do a uh vbs a vacation bible school where the teens teach the kids and i'm sitting here and

00:43:26.180 don't get me wrong i understand the heart behind the model and i think it's a good model for the

00:43:30.180 kids that are serious about jesus but with our numbers we got 20 kids in our youth group maybe

00:43:35.080 35 on a busy night kind of thing some come in and out right and i'm sitting here going i don't have

00:43:42.000 probably 20 super super committed christians i maybe have 10 you know what i'm saying i maybe

00:43:48.120 have 12 but then you got a few kids there that are like they're learning too and i don't think

00:43:53.500 that's bad but when you build a model where these kids become the teachers it's like that's that's

00:43:57.760 a little scary. Um, so luckily though, through those, we do just stick to a curriculum and it's

00:44:03.220 like, here, just read the page. The page is correct. You know what I'm saying? So that helps

00:44:07.140 them out. Um, but I think we're, I don't know. I don't want to give off the idea. I think you have

00:44:13.400 to be an expert before you can start sharing the gospel. I don't believe that, but I think you do

00:44:17.240 actually have to know and love Jesus before you can go and start sharing the gospel. Yeah.

00:44:22.600 That's fair.

00:44:23.660 Yeah.

00:44:23.900 That's fair.

00:44:24.640 Yeah.

00:44:25.040 I mean, I get it.

00:44:25.900 What is it?

00:44:26.180 It's to instill confidence in the kids.

00:44:27.940 And I do understand this concept of if you know a thing, there is more to know about

00:44:33.480 it if you can teach it.

00:44:34.700 You know, there's an additional layer there.

00:44:36.160 But I mean, we're not talking about soccer.

00:44:40.240 Right.

00:44:40.680 You were talking about salvation and the creator of the universe.

00:44:44.260 So a little bit different, but I could see how that would be.

00:44:47.740 And the other thing is like, once again, like I don't expect these kids to have all the

00:44:50.920 answers and and i'm not i'm not picking on them it's just like it's what i'm trying to paint here

00:44:55.260 is like the system pushes back the the whole idea of like we need people involved we need people

00:45:00.100 doing all these things or else it looks like we're not doing anything and it's like but yeah but like

00:45:04.060 maybe we should just not be doing anything and we should just be reading the bible right now

00:45:07.660 because we're trying to get everybody's spiritual health spiritually healthy say that again

00:45:12.360 appearances right like does it look good does it look healthy and i'm like no is it healthy right

00:45:17.520 And I think that is the currency of where we're at as a church.

00:45:22.080 Is the church healthy?

00:45:23.760 Are people spiritually healthy?

00:45:25.640 It doesn't matter if they've got it all figured out.

00:45:27.880 Do they know and love Jesus and are they moving in the right direction?

00:45:31.020 That's like the first thing, and that has to be the first thing.

00:45:34.780 And there's a lot of churches operating that have tons and tons of people

00:45:38.440 who've been in it their whole lives, and they're not there.

00:45:40.880 And we're not talking about my story anymore because I have veered from the path,

00:45:44.060 but you guys did this to me.

00:45:46.160 That's my story, though.

00:45:47.260 i'm done no i'm good no i mean it all ties in dude like this is your story i mean in a lot of

00:45:53.260 ways um i will just give kudos to my buddy i i have to do this every time uh but mike wigan uh

00:45:59.280 he's a church planner he gave me the language that i needed i felt a lot of this i didn't have

00:46:04.780 the words to express what i felt until i met that brother in christ and he has really strengthened

00:46:10.520 what do you mean the language for for what for all these things i'm talking about right now

00:46:14.380 And what do you mean by church planner?

00:46:17.420 So he actually, he has something called X2 Collective, and he sets up these things called Simple Communities, and they're basically house churches.

00:46:26.380 But what's cool about them is, like, they don't have to be apart from you going to church on Sunday.

00:46:31.920 It can be both.

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00:47:33.160 but my thought on thought on this is like we've built a system that exists on this pastor as the

00:47:39.820 head of the church means top we're talking about this beforehand if a pastor leaves a church you

00:47:44.420 leave you lose 40 of your congregation instantly that's going to happen that's the average every

00:47:50.180 time okay but that's because we've built a model based on the pastor if you build churches where

00:47:56.740 the pastor is just there to equip the people of the church to be the ones that go out and make

00:48:01.300 disciples versus the model we're in where we go out and we tell people to come to church so my

00:48:05.980 pastor can make you a disciple if you build it the opposing way if the pastor leaves nobody leaves

00:48:13.520 because it's equipped you just bring in the next guy that's going to equip people and so that's

00:48:18.780 my view of who the pastor is the pastor is an equipper they are not that's the biblical view

00:48:23.080 exactly that's what they're there for so i i just i think a lot of where we're at today is

00:48:28.220 once again going to get going to get feedback on this but like i think a lot of what we do today

00:48:33.280 is based on the church slowly drifted into what rome became sure and then the protestant reformation

00:48:40.280 came out of that but it did not shed all of what it learned from the roman catholic church and so

00:48:46.000 so much of our model today is not based on like the reformation didn't get back to the basics

00:48:51.360 it got back to a lot of the basics plus some of what it had already turned into right but when

00:48:56.800 you go back to just the Bible, dude, I don't see a senior pastor anywhere other than Jesus.

00:49:01.840 Right. Yeah. That's profound. What you're saying is that, and then to question anything,

00:49:06.440 everybody at this stage of the journey is like, this is just how it's always been done. This is

00:49:10.260 what we're going to keep doing. But I don't know. I feel like, yeah, everything's too real. We were

00:49:14.400 talking before the show about how, look at how much the world changed since 2020. They just look

00:49:19.320 at how much the news changed since 2020 or just look at anything. And it's like the church didn't

00:49:24.880 change at all dude the church is like refuse to move forward and look at this and say maybe this

00:49:30.700 is a little bit of a fake system like maybe we could do this different but i really like what

00:49:35.200 you're saying that like yeah i don't think that those should go away either i think there should

00:49:39.220 just be good preachers who actually spend 40 hours a week on their sermon and they just preach fire

00:49:44.040 on sunday morning but that's like not that's like not the be all end all of people's faith that's

00:49:49.740 just like this rad bonus you get on sunday but you've got a home church that just kind of pops

00:49:54.380 in on Sundays. Well, that's where all the growth happens is in the small groups. Anyway, it doesn't

00:49:58.080 happen on Sunday morning. And so what we preach about constantly is like, Hey, what are you going

00:50:02.300 to do the other 168 hours, 178 hours, whatever it is in the week. This is just one hour. It doesn't

00:50:08.940 reset next week. Like that's mass. You just described mass. I'm going to go just live however

00:50:13.260 I want. And then I'm going to come back and I'm going to eat the body and the blood and I'm going

00:50:15.920 to be good. It's like, no, no, like you're on all the time for Jesus. The other thing that we've

00:50:21.160 been really big on preaching on is, well, not preaching on, is we don't talk about money

00:50:25.640 at all. Maybe once a year, twice a year. And when we do, it's not, hey, this is a biblical,

00:50:32.140 like tithing is biblical. It's more like, hey, you all have determined this is what church should

00:50:37.140 look like for you. So for you to come here week after week, if this is what you want,

00:50:41.380 it'd be kind of lame for you to not help us keep it moving. And I'll always end it with,

00:50:46.000 hey if you guys and such like this yeah repairs and yeah exactly and i'm always like hey look if

00:50:50.820 you guys decide you don't want to do it this this way anymore and you just want to meet in the park

00:50:54.120 once a week and then we just do house church i'm cool with that too but while this is what you've

00:50:58.260 decided we're doing it has to be paid for somehow so please help us do that if this is what you want

00:51:04.400 if not let's talk so let's say that that that system does deteriorate and there's a bunch of

00:51:09.700 reasons why that could be the case over the next few years or you know certainly like a decade if

00:51:15.320 you wanted to be graceful with the time frame there um and maybe there's something to be said

00:51:20.940 about like a generation like if you know not and i'm not trying to dunk on the boomers i'm just

00:51:25.000 saying they're next in line that really messed you up the lady that came in no no that was fine

00:51:29.660 with that uh but it messed me up they're next in line right we didn't catch any of that on audio

00:51:34.160 did we no that was uh that was a little bit jarring um for them you know it is what it is

00:51:39.760 they were highly disturbed i thought you were being very kind i was but they were still disturbed

00:51:44.800 I mean, they saw skulls and they were like, I don't like this.

00:51:48.360 The story is another old lady came to the shop and basically said,

00:51:52.440 A pair of.

00:51:53.120 I don't particularly like what you're doing in your business.

00:51:57.140 Yes.

00:51:57.840 And then Matt explains it to her.

00:51:59.000 Many such cases.

00:52:00.060 She still didn't like it, but I at least explained it to her.

00:52:02.000 They do like to show up and tell you that they don't like what you did.

00:52:02.980 She didn't deserve the explanation.

00:52:04.380 Yeah, she did, dude.

00:52:05.340 Like, imagine you're from that generation and everybody has kissed your ass for your money for decades now.

00:52:10.980 And their whole mindset is like.

00:52:12.400 And then imagine it just stops all of a sudden.

00:52:14.440 everything in culture revolves around me because i have money and i'm not going to come here and

00:52:19.480 support your place of business because i don't like what you have on the walls so you don't know

00:52:23.960 that's cool lady but but do you want to understand like why we have the skulls it's you want to know

00:52:28.360 about now you think she wanted to understand that's this is exactly my point she did not

00:52:32.840 want to understand and i can tell that right away she wanted you to take the skulls down i don't

00:52:36.520 care it doesn't matter i do think we still plant the seed yeah because like it may not be you it

00:52:41.960 maybe given she's working unlimited time but it may be somebody else down the road sure that keeps

00:52:49.500 watering that seed you've already planted if she hears this 10 other times and starts to go is

00:52:54.760 there anything to that and i only say that because i've seen people change yeah and i think at every

00:52:59.980 generation you you're gonna have resistance because every generation is wired different

00:53:04.060 and the gospel is contrary to all of them yeah none of these generations are wired for the gospel

00:53:08.820 it's all kind of antithetical to human nature well they're at a big disadvantage and what i said to

00:53:15.380 her was like she said yeah i don't like it i said well i'm sure like at your church you like when

00:53:19.880 uh people are your same age they have your same amount of money and she was nodding and i was

00:53:25.000 like they vote the same as you and she was like yeah i was like yeah the kingdom of god all the

00:53:30.520 good white people i like when they're all next to me and she was very obvious with her well she was

00:53:35.440 upset that we had this brown i mean she was happy he was in the corner but they were upset that he's

00:53:40.000 in here at all no but i mean i was just like yeah so so like this is stuff from the bible and it's

00:53:44.920 okay to be around people that are different from you like the kingdom of god is vast and we're

00:53:48.480 diverse and we're different and she was just kind of i mean what yeah to your point it's like maybe

00:53:53.320 i was the first one to explain to her what a nephilim was but maybe somebody else don't you

00:53:56.840 see don't you see the like how opposite this is matt says that i get upset with him when he's like

00:54:01.940 hey you went to youth church and now you're here you think you're hot for god like come back bro

00:54:07.120 like dog you've had a i don't know 120 years so far what it looks like on the earth and this is

00:54:13.460 what you're gonna come no no but i'm gonna explain it to boomers and i'm gonna explain it to youth

00:54:17.880 i'm gonna explain it to both okay youth you got to be a little more stern with but i don't want

00:54:21.340 to cut raven off because he was cooking he had a whole thing the only question i was going to ask

00:54:24.900 is you know we might be looking at it sooner because when that generation goes what's that

00:54:29.600 model i think it's going to be very impactful with their absence on that model um financially

00:54:34.860 for sure yeah financially which is huge i mean it's the ability to to have what we determine as

00:54:39.660 like mega churches and financial models madness it is madness i'm not way too much money contested

00:54:45.200 at all but what i'm asking is what then takes its place and i don't mean what should take its place

00:54:50.860 i mean given the landscape right now and the way things are going what do you anticipate will take

00:54:55.020 its place uh okay so here's what i currently see um like okay there's the big mega churches right

00:55:01.540 they they eat the mid-size and small churches because the mid-size and small churches are

00:55:09.480 falling off because they don't have enough of a pool of money to keep up the system they're trying

00:55:13.720 to perpetuate this is walmart killing mom and pop shops exactly and as those okay but that's just

00:55:18.540 that's just staggering i mean it's a business like that's it's exactly what it is yeah it's

00:55:23.040 exactly walmart consuming the mom but i think the solution is going to evolve out of out of

00:55:27.800 this problem naturally because it has to yeah so we'll get to that but basically what i see is

00:55:34.880 you've got these big giant churches eating the smaller churches like we said they're closing

00:55:38.620 faster than they're opening so eventually that means so many years down the line you're just

00:55:42.720 going to have big churches because you're going to have really big churches and really really

00:55:46.880 small churches that's going to be imagine how easy that's going to get absorbed into the into

00:55:50.900 that system dude what the small churches no the if it's all just big churches hold on hold on so

00:55:56.400 they've all got revolving front doors because people are always coming in but they've always

00:56:00.280 got revolving back doors because they only provide milk so many of them i'm not saying all the mega

00:56:05.680 churches there may be some decent ones out there i don't know but so many of them it's just the

00:56:09.380 most basic keep you in the seat keep you entertained keep you happy but they're always losing people

00:56:14.980 that's why it's always you when you're at church you're like why is this geared towards somebody

00:56:18.800 who's been here for like a week like like none of these sermons are ever geared towards the deep

00:56:23.160 well that's that's out of the church growth model the seeker model yeah see because the whole deal

00:56:27.520 is that model was put in place with the intention of equipping people to go out into their communities

00:56:32.300 and make disciples but it got eaten slowly by people tweaking it to make it attractive to make

00:56:39.720 bigger buildings bigger churches and it even evolved with all those great intentions so they

00:56:44.820 just get the new people get the new people get the new people and then as somebody matures they're

00:56:48.560 like i'm out of here i just keep hearing these same week sermons like day one sermons yeah but

00:56:52.700 boxing and mma classes have uh they'll have like their morning class or their their like middle

00:56:58.020 of the day class where that's like everybody and then at night then it's like black belt level or

00:57:03.320 competition like what you're saying yeah is that a possible solution maybe why not the building

00:57:09.280 it's not the current model it's getting paid for the lights are on like why isn't it being used

00:57:12.960 almost i want to ask it should be seven days a week right every day of the week are you kidding

00:57:17.220 mean like we always say like no people with little kids should be paying for daycare in a church if

00:57:22.700 there's retired people who could be watching those kids like what are you what do you mean we're a

00:57:26.480 family but i'm gonna go pay for daycare the other piece we've struggled with with our building is we

00:57:30.880 we added up all church usage and we said how often is the building actually being used and i think we

00:57:35.740 were actually using capacity at like 16 when you take all time and all use of the building so what

00:57:42.520 we've started doing is we brought in homeschooling organizations throughout the day we have a day

00:57:47.640 care downstairs somebody's growing a food for us and you see my matt this is my issue with where

00:57:52.320 you're telling me oh let's take over this back room it's just that that's exactly what i want

00:57:57.820 to avoid what is it what is he he wants the back room bad no because i don't even understand the

00:58:02.420 context of what he's saying right now like what's the context of what top saying the context is the

00:58:06.740 modern day church is using their building 16 15 percent of the time okay that's what we'd be using

00:58:12.800 this back room okay so don't use the back room no i want it right but don't then there's a lot

00:58:17.540 of drawbacks to not using it but to top the back room so bad churches that are realizing that and

00:58:23.640 they're going hey we got to figure out what we are going to do because our whole thing we've always

00:58:27.440 said we want to be the best church for our community and that's always been our focus is

00:58:31.700 like how can we be here for the community so like yeah do you have to rent space yeah but it's way

00:58:37.800 cheaper than anything else in the area because we're just trying to keep the lights on and give

00:58:41.980 you a space kind of thing but like we try and use as much of it as we can now we opened a

00:58:47.660 commissary out of our kitchen because the kitchen wasn't being used so now food trucks use our

00:58:52.460 kitchen um like there's ways to do it but like it's all still business talk you're saying that's

00:58:58.460 to bring in money it's not even to bring in money it's it keeps things afloat but it's more like how

00:59:03.260 can we let people use our building because right now it's just sitting vacant for right but i'm

00:59:08.220 saying like how can it be used not just to keep some money coming in from food trucks but like

00:59:12.560 we should have stuff going on every day as far as the kingdom of god man we should be having classes

00:59:17.640 groups to that you can do that you will do that and you'll start and everybody will show up for

00:59:24.120 the first two weeks. And then week three, you got about half. And week four, you got about a quarter

00:59:28.800 of that. And then week five, you got the same 10 people showing up every time. And then the program

00:59:34.540 dies. But I think we're going to do it. And even if the program dies, we're just going to keep

00:59:38.560 doing it. And we're just like, I preach a lot of sermons to the wall. Eating well shouldn't be

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01:00:44.440 well all of a sudden one day i had an audience you know what i mean like and i feel like if

01:00:48.780 you're gonna get and you're gonna do like a like even like a 501c3 style like like an a-frame

01:00:53.520 building with a cross on it if there's a thing you're gonna do like what you're saying you keep

01:00:57.360 doing it people don't come you don't care you do it for a year nobody's telling you man i keep doing

01:01:01.320 it at the church we go to there's there's something called lift groups that they do on

01:01:04.800 wednesdays are they getting buff yeah they just lift and hell yeah no it's a great idea it's

01:01:10.140 instead of the traditional Bible study on Wednesday

01:01:12.720 or the traditional sermon on Wednesday,

01:01:15.180 they break up into classes.

01:01:16.940 But what they've done instead is outsource their classes

01:01:19.860 to like Rick Renner is teaching one.

01:01:22.440 They're watching like pod pastors.

01:01:24.340 And then somebody will come and give like a devotional

01:01:26.600 about whatever that lesson was.

01:01:28.720 And I was like, if I put Matt in here,

01:01:31.120 nobody else would be going to the other classes.

01:01:33.500 They would be going to that, to the straight Bible course

01:01:36.280 because it's new, fresh, interesting.

01:01:37.980 Matt becomes a pastor though at that point.

01:01:40.140 what is he now let's get him some roads that's fair but what did we say the purpose of a pastor

01:01:45.820 is it's to train others to do the same dude we'll go watch the go into the um discord bible study

01:01:51.740 tomorrow night exactly you're gonna see they're running a bible study exactly trevor's doing it

01:01:55.840 themselves and they're not putting andy stanley on the tv to watch him for no no but if i have

01:02:00.340 certain generations of folks put together a small group at the church which is what we want them to

01:02:04.820 do they'll pop in a dvd and let a pastor talk to them for an hour and it's like when are you

01:02:09.320 engaging with the Bible? When are you opening it and seeing what it says and coming to your own

01:02:14.180 understanding? And there's a lot of people that just don't ever. Our care pastor, I'll say there

01:02:22.260 is a huge number of folks, not just in our church, outside of our church, because he's got a ton of

01:02:27.060 people he talks to. It's staggering how many people are not constantly plugged in. And I feel

01:02:34.860 comfortable saying that because i'm not throwing names around but like at the same time it's like

01:02:39.980 there's a lot of people in the church that never pray that never read their bible and it's like

01:02:45.080 dude you're not even connected why are you even here on well see and that's where like this whole

01:02:50.500 thing where the so-called pastor today is like all five he's apostle prophet pastor evangelist

01:02:58.220 and teacher like you look at og like william grimshaw in england he went to everybody's

01:03:03.600 house who was in his like parish if you will right like he went to everybody's house he ate with them

01:03:08.300 he prayed with them he read scripture with them and he knew their life right right tozer was not

01:03:13.980 doing that like aw tozer was not doing that with anybody so you go read his sermons tozer's crushing

01:03:19.060 right right so i don't know i think you got to get the guy who goes to people's houses that's right

01:03:24.520 then you got another guy he's like hey i'm not really i'm not going in everybody's house i'm

01:03:28.820 not going in the hospital every time somebody's sick i know that's very offensive for a lot of

01:03:32.200 people but you got a guy who does have a heart for that you got the guy who does go every time

01:03:36.360 somebody's sick you got a guy that does go to everybody's house right and maybe you have multiple

01:03:40.680 people doing that and they're setting up this structure for home churches with 10 or 12 people

01:03:45.400 exactly and you have all those small churches those small house churches it's like yo we're

01:03:49.500 just meeting up on sunday or maybe so coming out of like what i said where i said i tried to quit

01:03:53.780 i've reframed what i'm doing right now i like that i said okay here's what i'm gonna do from

01:03:58.600 here on out i'm going to preach the word because that's how i'm wired i'm going to teach it i'm

01:04:04.420 going to go and i'm going to teach people how to set up simple community small groups that can

01:04:08.740 serve as house churches or small groups whatever but my whole goal in that is if the church does

01:04:14.080 collapse eventually all these people know how to do church without a system and that's my goal i

01:04:18.940 want them to be prepared either way i like that and so like you can keep coming that's awesome

01:04:22.780 but you should talk with otis dude i think uh otis otis would be like a very useful tool for you

01:04:28.580 come on i'd be interested yeah come on no that'd be a great you guys would have a great episode

01:04:33.000 dude maybe we facilitate that but um but yeah that's a great point because you do almost get

01:04:38.020 this feeling that like i mean this is exactly what you're saying is that that current 501c3

01:04:42.340 structure like it's it's gonna go away at some point right and then and then what then what do

01:04:47.320 people do what if we do get to a place where you can't have rivals in america i don't know i'm not

01:04:51.800 well you know and if people would set those up what they would realize is they each like say

01:04:55.840 you got 20 people meeting at your house, which is where I think you should probably cap it because

01:04:59.440 you get beyond that. It gets crazy. But if you got 20 people within that 20 people, 15, 20 people,

01:05:04.480 whatever, you're going to realize you've got three or four people that really step up and kind of

01:05:09.940 lead in certain ways. And you're going to notice that there are different giftings among all those

01:05:14.580 people and let them lean into it and do what they're naturally programmed to do. The church

01:05:18.700 is about delegation in so many ways. God wired each of us. It's a body. It takes every organ

01:05:24.160 of the body no one pastor is all the giftings like you just said i'm not a pastor of care i'm

01:05:29.980 that's why i really don't like the word pastor because that means the guy that's out shepherding

01:05:34.080 taking care of people going to their houses i know but the offensive thing is it's more accurate

01:05:38.160 to be a prophet in that role like you know what i'm saying like tozer was more of a prophetic but

01:05:42.280 that just carries so much baggage and i don't use that one either because so many people so much

01:05:46.320 that word i use prophetic in the way of like i hear the word of god through his word and then

01:05:52.060 i've kind of got this evangelical wiring where i can then turn around and teach it to you speak

01:05:56.440 it to you speaking forth the mind of god that's all it is exactly right there's so much baggage

01:06:00.960 if you say prophet today but like the fiery preachers were prophetic preachers like that's

01:06:06.100 what they were but the guy who went to the homes and went to the hospital that was a that was a

01:06:10.220 pastor right you know evangelist i mean philip the evangelist is kind of the only example we got like

01:06:15.340 the main example we got he's doing wild stuff bro like if we just go back to the bible of what

01:06:19.520 these offices are and then i think a lot of the guys were teachers no matter what office they had

01:06:23.660 they were also a teacher too what is it uh apostle and then like apostles man yeah they were just um

01:06:29.940 they were like the backbone of the church right the church planners yeah and they were different

01:06:34.000 it's it's they're totally different today than they would have been in the day of the of the

01:06:38.900 book of acts right especially you know uh creating scripture like creating the word of god and uh

01:06:44.100 writing it and having it assembled and establishing the church just like elijah was way different than

01:06:48.920 moses but they were both prophets like there's apostles today in my view or there should be

01:06:53.640 but they're totally different from apostles yeah at the beginning of the church yeah that has a

01:06:57.780 different meaning to it an apostle today is the kind of person that's gonna they're your type a's

01:07:01.580 they're your ceo types they're going out and they're like let me establish a system a structure

01:07:05.900 not a system but you know what i'm saying like let me help get this i don't know if i like all

01:07:09.200 that language but i see what you're saying hear me out like let me bolster this group of people

01:07:12.880 to be prepared to do it like but they're kind of your missionaries if you will like they're the

01:07:17.920 because that's what the apostles did they were going out and they were planting churches in the

01:07:21.600 places right and they were teaching other people how to do so they're equippers as well sure but

01:07:26.000 they're kind of these types that go out and go let me help you do this whereas a guy like me i don't

01:07:31.280 feel called to go out to some other nation or something but i'm like okay how can i with this

01:07:36.160 group of people here teach them i'm not your pastoral care guy i'm your teacher guy that's

01:07:41.200 what i'm a man i like that so it's good to know what you rock you know it's taken a while taking

01:07:46.240 a while to get there but um i like what you're saying about um if you tell the people like hey

01:07:51.600 if you want to be here pay the dollars if you don't want to be here that's cool we don't need

01:07:56.240 the dollars because you guys won't be here we don't have to like facilitate any of this we don't

01:07:59.640 need all the dollars but if you're going to be here i was reading this um i'm going to get into

01:08:04.840 this in the next study too in uh one timothy 5 17 and 18 he says let the elders same word as pastor

01:08:11.160 or whatever that rule well be counted worthy of double honor that's in the king james but in like

01:08:17.620 a modern translation it says like be paid be paid for what they're doing especially they who labor

01:08:23.180 in the word and doctrine this is big to me dude it's like is the guy laboring in the word because

01:08:29.800 like if i'm coming in here and falling asleep on sunday morning like how much did you labor in

01:08:33.880 this like i know what i used to do when i was a flooring installer and like i'm working out of

01:08:38.200 town and working nights and working like 15 hours straight with no break to like gets like surely

01:08:44.200 the man of God who's talking about things pertaining to eternity and heaven and hell and

01:08:47.960 men's souls hang in the balance certainly he's working as hard as a flooring installer right

01:08:52.360 but it's like those guys those guys should be paid because it's like hey this is my blood sweat and

01:08:58.260 tears like bringing forth this but the dollars is bigger than dollars for you it's your blood sweat

01:09:02.960 and tears in time and it's just this exchange but look what he compares it to for the scripture

01:09:07.260 says you shall not muzzle the ox that treads out the corn and the laborer is worthy of his reward

01:09:12.740 so like a pastor is like not just a servant not just a steward of the mysteries of god not just

01:09:18.920 a laborer but he's compared to an ox in the field right like he's like he's lower than a human

01:09:24.760 laborer he's an ox so where you see a dude grinding like an ox okay that's fair to give

01:09:31.020 him dollars for whatever they need the dollars for certainly they in this day they weren't talking

01:09:35.220 about like give me dollars so i can buy land and build buildings and get a loan and set up this

01:09:39.680 whole governmental structure for tax shelter reasons but they needed money to like do stuff

01:09:44.880 right so i like that if it's like if you tell people like hey if you want to keep doing this

01:09:50.060 you know bring some dollars so that we can keep this thing going and if not that's fine too

01:09:54.200 and i guess i'm in a place where like i would i've really struggled with they they want me

01:10:00.880 there full-time like they do and i'm i'm just not going to do it because of the system because we're

01:10:06.440 in a system where it's like i don't trust where the system is going i'm not going to build my

01:10:10.220 livelihood on this system and then it collapses i'm going to go work in a barber shop and i'm

01:10:15.300 going to preach and i literally tried to tell you to stop paying me you're not going to whatever

01:10:19.900 but like at some point i am going to have to fall off and just be a volunteer position because it's

01:10:25.740 like that's now the podcast moving in this direction i see free here i see reason to be in

01:10:31.260 this sphere um but it's like i don't want to put all my eggs in the basket of the system because

01:10:37.660 the system is broken i have no problem giving myself fully to the word of god and honestly dude

01:10:42.700 there's a weird thing about like they say if like you're doing something you love you never work a

01:10:47.020 day in your life that's real like i'm constantly taking in bible information i'm constantly reading

01:10:52.300 I'm constantly listening, but it doesn't feel like work.

01:10:55.720 So when I finally sit down to write a sermon, I have all this up here that I've been gathering

01:11:00.860 all this time.

01:11:02.200 And I sit down and I go, God, can you lead this?

01:11:04.760 Because if they're my words, they don't matter.

01:11:06.640 And for a long time, dude, I talked on that stage.

01:11:09.900 These days, God talks on that stage because I let his word speak.

01:11:13.840 And I give what I can to kind of cohesively put things together.

01:11:17.320 But it's the word.

01:11:18.480 The word has to do all the heavy lifting.

01:11:20.280 And so I only say that because I agree with what you're saying, but I think there's a lot of pastors that take it so seriously that it becomes them speaking on the stage.

01:11:29.680 And that doesn't preach, bro.

01:11:31.080 Yeah, it's both, dude.

01:11:32.280 Jesus explains it like this.

01:11:33.480 He said, then said he unto them, therefore, every scribe which is instructed into the modern American 501c3 system that was trained in a cemetery school.

01:11:42.120 No, no.

01:11:43.120 he said therefore every scribe which is instructed

01:11:45.580 unto the kingdom of heaven

01:11:46.820 is like unto a man that is a householder

01:11:49.160 like the head of the house which brings forth

01:11:51.300 out of his treasure things new and things old

01:11:53.440 so that's the picture of the ox

01:11:55.100 what you're talking about is you're grinding in the

01:11:57.400 world

01:11:57.680 people stuffs the work

01:12:03.600 but you're kind of going like that

01:12:05.200 but you're going and getting old and new

01:12:07.240 treasure and then you are bringing it forth

01:12:09.420 and just hoping that it's like

01:12:10.540 that it's God's words

01:12:13.120 So, uh, do we want to talk Bible?

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01:13:16.160 meal delivery service. No, I mean, we're just, we're just rolling now.

01:13:20.100 This is definitely not the episode of a sermon on the mountain.

01:13:23.020 That's right. That's what I was.

01:13:25.340 I switched it to the interview series, but I think we should,

01:13:28.440 it would be cool to get into the evil eye stuff that you were talking about.

01:13:30.880 And that's, that's biblical. Well, no, no.

01:13:32.780 I want Zach to keep rolling with his story.

01:13:34.480 And like, I think what he's talking about is so relevant, dude.

01:13:36.600 Like he's got a good, like you can tell he's not like, um,

01:13:39.520 i don't think i am either but i know i come off like that like that uh i just want to burn down

01:13:45.100 the 501c3 system once again did use the expression white hot hate i do have a white hot hatred for

01:13:49.700 that system i'll say very really i i have said outright there's a couple churches in my hometown

01:13:55.540 that if they close down tomorrow the gospel would benefit for it sure but sure that's a crazy

01:14:00.860 but there's tons there's thousands of those across america you're supposed to be a facilitator of the

01:14:05.200 word and instead you're doing such a detriment that maybe it would be better that you don't

01:14:08.600 exist yeah but i mean study the scripture like show me a time period where the covenant people

01:14:13.020 are on track i'll give you a story i worked at a barber shop where my boss um rowdy boy wild guy

01:14:20.300 uh really nice guy i like him a lot did not know the lord and i would just kind of openly talk to

01:14:27.980 customers about the gospel sure and i actually worked at a muslim barber shop for a while no

01:14:32.780 way and it was all muslim run and i remember one day the owner walked up to me he said hey maybe

01:14:37.820 we don't talk about the church stuff and i went okay and then i just continued to talk about the

01:14:42.540 church stuff and he never said anything again and so i just have always taken that i'm like i've got

01:14:47.440 you in my chair for 30 minutes i might as well talk about 30 minute haircut that's it well

01:14:52.820 sometimes more you got to do like 40 minutes on some cuts 45 on some cuts but 30 actually

01:14:58.340 like industry standards like 20 25 minutes in a lot of ways no dude the puerto ricans i go to

01:15:03.300 was yeah i don't do that for so long so long the last time i did that okay i got my license picture

01:15:09.860 taken the same day got lined up by a puerto rican dude nice pencil thin stash got me all cleaned up

01:15:16.140 bro i go and get my i get my license picture taken i got pulled over like six months later

01:15:20.960 it's dark cop can't see me he brings me back my warning and it says hispanic underneath of my

01:15:26.260 nice yeah i always say that to my guy tony after i get the cut and he shows me i'm like very puerto

01:15:31.400 rican he goes yeah you're one of us i like when they give me a fade and it's and they're there

01:15:35.660 for like 15 minutes in the same spot yes in this and i'm just going dude maybe they're kind of

01:15:40.320 bobbing they're listening to music creepy thing though about the um puerto rican barbershop last

01:15:45.840 time i was in there i think they act a little different sometimes when i come in and i think

01:15:50.060 they put on like worship music when i when i said true yeah when i sat down not always but i was like

01:15:55.660 how i feel walking but like oh so everything that they have on at the barbershops in spanish

01:16:00.860 i hear that the instruments it doesn't matter that it's in spanish instantly it's the same

01:16:07.880 thing as so-called worship music in america it doesn't matter what language it's got that exact

01:16:12.960 the worship music industry because there's a worship music it's a formula it's exactly the

01:16:17.940 same even in spanish dude it just it's this other kind of music that just right when you hear it it

01:16:23.460 just sounds fake it's pop and it's the same thing and then it's like spanish words i'm like i know

01:16:28.160 this is so-called worship music like i already know the greatest uh worship song ever is uh oh

01:16:34.980 holy night dude what the christmas song dude go listen to like the theology of that song yeah it's

01:16:41.340 an absolute banger yeah i love who wrote this rolls around i have no idea dude the old hymns

01:16:46.080 bang dude there we've got in the h section right here we've got the um we've got just old hymns

01:16:52.400 dude because like if pastors like dude when pastors pass away locally nobody takes their

01:16:57.860 books dude so they'll call me and say hey our pastor passed away do you want the books i'm like

01:17:01.800 yeah dude they're bringing me boxes of spurgeon i was gonna say you got really good like other

01:17:05.940 stuff dude and no i'm like nobody in the church wanted this like oh no there's we don't have any

01:17:10.100 other pastors like he was the pastor oh shit look at this like none of the common people are you

01:17:14.460 looking at the lyrics yeah so oh go hard dude oh holy night was originally banned by the french

01:17:20.420 catholic church uh because they the the leaders learned that the lyricist placid uh capo was an

01:17:28.880 anti he had anti-clerical views and the composer adolf adam was of jewish heritage

01:17:35.280 oh dang a jewish guy named adolf yeah he wrote the music and another guy uh placid

01:17:43.140 wrote the lyrics but he had anti-clerical views yeah i'm kind of perusing anti-clerical like

01:17:49.380 Like, that's always the thing.

01:17:50.340 He was against the so-called modern 501c3.

01:17:52.500 No, it's just like when somebody says, you know,

01:17:54.060 the church believed this for all these years.

01:17:56.500 It's like, okay, well, those are the years that, like,

01:17:58.820 the Vatican was the church.

01:18:00.260 So, like, nobody believed this until this year.

01:18:03.740 It's like, okay, so...

01:18:04.160 Oh, this is horrific, dude.

01:18:05.840 The guy that wrote...

01:18:06.820 So, it was a poem.

01:18:07.580 Are you going to kill this for me?

01:18:08.760 No, I mean, it was a poem in 1843.

01:18:13.140 After he got kicked out, like, he left the church,

01:18:15.780 he joins the socialist movement.

01:18:17.380 because it seems like the church pushed him out right yeah yeah yeah i mean you know that's uh

01:18:24.300 wait wait wait that doesn't mean the guy's bad is that what you're saying no it's just not you

01:18:28.680 join a you join a socialist movement it's uh socialism is 2020 though isn't it you know what

01:18:35.100 i mean like now we know if you're pushing back against what is clearly a corrupt vatican well

01:18:39.660 yeah what year was it and who kicked him out because like if it's if you're talking like

01:18:44.000 1700s or 1800s or like whatever year and it's the vatican we would all be heretics as well

01:18:49.360 right no i'm just saying like to push him out of the the church system and him to join the

01:18:54.480 socialist party the socialist party is like anti-god because you lose your individuality

01:19:00.020 yeah yeah but in all fairness dude there's some excellent songs written by people who are no

01:19:06.220 longer part of the faith because yeah they just i see church hurt a lot man church messes people

01:19:11.680 up thrice dude uh dustin kensry from thrice had some absolutely fantastic songs about just faith

01:19:18.640 and god and now that dude is like how come there's never any like uh gym hurt or like job hurt how

01:19:25.620 come there's only like church like there's nobody who doesn't go back to the gym because they got

01:19:28.880 their feelings i think it's because the okay the church is the people of god right like the church

01:19:35.020 isn't a place it's a people and i think we're really terrible about explaining that like it's

01:19:39.560 The word ecclesia literally means the gathering or the assembly, which means it's actually

01:19:44.220 the counsel of God.

01:19:47.000 Like when we talk about the counsel of God in the heavens, the church is that on earth.

01:19:51.120 I like that.

01:19:51.580 Right.

01:19:51.720 That's us.

01:19:52.300 Yeah.

01:19:52.680 Okay.

01:19:52.940 We're the assembly of God.

01:19:54.760 And so I think you then have those people hurt you.

01:19:59.740 And it's like, if these people just hurt me, what hope is there for anything else?

01:20:05.020 You know what I'm saying?

01:20:06.000 And also that Satan isn't in your ear telling you not to use the squat rack at this gym anymore.

01:20:13.100 You know what I mean?

01:20:13.640 Like nobody's getting gym hurt because there's not a spiritual principality that's trying to pull you away from the Lord in the gym.

01:20:21.440 What about at your job?

01:20:22.860 Your job is a little bit different.

01:20:24.180 That's what I'm saying.

01:20:24.800 I never heard somebody say, I'm not going back to my job because I got job hurt.

01:20:29.280 But I think part of that, though, comes from people just not having a great view of themselves and God.

01:20:34.880 because the more you see yourself for who you are and you see god for who he is you realize how much

01:20:40.740 of a piece of crap you are and so then you're less shocked by it when people do hurt you because

01:20:46.160 you're like i think you kind of do this thing where you make idols out of people accidentally

01:20:50.580 where you're like oh this guy would never this person would never do x y or z i would because

01:20:58.080 i'm a terrible person but not him and then he politics constantly i heard of that too where

01:21:02.420 people fall off because like their mentor they found out he was on coke or something sure and i

01:21:06.840 remember thinking like this is so silly or like their family member right you have a dad that's

01:21:11.560 like really really strictly religious and he imposes all these things and he's also not a

01:21:16.380 great father and so therefore the church is bad because he did a bad job can you share some church

01:21:22.680 stories uh of others or like dude if you have any that'd be great like last but i don't think we

01:21:29.620 have any you have church stories yeah that's no you don't you don't listen to me he doesn't listen

01:21:34.840 to you do you have church stories no i never really went to the church he's just always seems

01:21:39.120 a little weird he's currently being hurt right now i am turn to your neighbor and say church

01:21:43.240 it's really specifically by one man in the church you want to take a moment and shake hands for a

01:21:47.360 solid minute or solid minute 60 seconds on the clock go outside we used to call it the grin and

01:21:52.560 it's too long grinning grinning grinning the old grinning grip is a terrifying expression yeah it's

01:21:57.500 terrifying um but like i yeah i mean i i have to be careful what details i get into but i basically

01:22:06.840 had a situation last year at the church where we had somebody tried to take control of the church

01:22:16.120 uh female i mean it i can't i really care was it was a white female no it was not um do you have

01:22:22.660 armpit hair but this was an elected position you can't i don't look it it got really hairy on the

01:22:30.180 like church politics side of things and i eventually stood in the gap and i was i basically

01:22:35.200 said hey look you're only here on a technicality at this point and i'm gonna upend every council

01:22:41.300 session we have forever until you're gone you're not gonna get anything done here and everybody

01:22:47.780 got mad at me and it was like this whole like you you were too rude you were too that you should not

01:22:53.660 have done that that was not cool and it's like who would have who this would all still be happening

01:22:59.000 and so like I had people calling for my job I really did not feel stood up for even though I

01:23:05.140 did have a lot of good people standing up for me but like at the same time it was like I it was

01:23:09.600 gross it was awful I hated that we got there it really bummed me out that we even could get there

01:23:15.800 and for the last year i have been incredibly jaded up until about six weeks ago three four

01:23:21.420 weeks ago maybe i have not fully recovered from a lot of that and i'm in a lot better place right

01:23:26.180 now but dude i've been a shell for a for a hot minute i guess i get it then if you're in that

01:23:32.660 type of role where you've got skin in the game it's bureaucracy it's just like whenever i'm in

01:23:37.260 that system i'm just like this is stupid i'm out of here so there's not eating well shouldn't be

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01:24:41.600 But if you're like in a role there and I could see where you're like, and I have to be here

01:24:46.380 and they're like doing this stuff that's shady. And that's why I won't become a member.

01:24:50.800 It's because I covered a member. No, because I know that like, that's a step too far into the

01:24:55.400 business. I don't see any reason why you should become a member. You're a member of the body of

01:24:59.400 Christ. And I don't remember Jesus saying, go forth and build kingdoms. He said, build the

01:25:03.860 kingdom right we build tiny little castles with our tiny little kings that we put up and i'm like

01:25:08.880 where is any of this biblically you're a member i don't think membership matters we really don't

01:25:14.340 technically have a membership at our church we have covenant members where it's basically like

01:25:18.480 hey are you will you commit to this body of believers but it's also like if you separate

01:25:26.540 that's cool like we get it but it's like if you're going to be here are you going to be like plugged

01:25:30.780 in with us, like doing this thing. That's really all we ask, but it's not, uh, I don't really push

01:25:36.520 it. My thing is like, if you're here, that tells me you believe in the same God as I do, and we

01:25:40.940 should be working together. Just as a personal note for me, it's, it's like, it seems very

01:25:46.080 difficult as a 36 year old dude to be like, do you want to be plugged into for my, my church

01:25:51.180 specifically with, uh, a body of people that are like 80 and over. Is that what this is about?

01:25:58.220 well that's a little bit weird and i mean just like you know that's what this is about well

01:26:02.840 you're pretty old and i find it difficult to engage with you occasionally i think it's called

01:26:08.260 ageism matt ageism um he is ageism but to all of a sudden jump up to like 70 and 80 so i'm going to

01:26:16.600 sit in a council meeting and stuff from another generation what was that i know okay so you're

01:26:26.140 saying whenever we like buy our own building we don't take up a donation but we buy our own building

01:26:31.580 and we do church on friday nights we're like i'll preach and then when i'm done preach we don't we

01:26:37.900 do any announcements i'll just be like 6 30 p.m on friday boom there goes the sermon and then as

01:26:43.720 soon as i'm done top does the music and people can like worship until like top's done doing music or

01:26:48.860 until they're done worshiping that's actually a great idea you're saying you would be down for

01:26:52.400 that as long as there's not 80 year olds or no it's not that it's not 80 year olds it just can't

01:26:56.980 be 90 80 no no i don't i don't mean i don't mean about like your own church i think like

01:27:02.160 flipping the the program on its head oh music at the end the music should be at the end and then

01:27:08.300 yeah people want to if it's friday night and people want to worship till one in the morning

01:27:12.800 they should that they want to stick around and watch a podcast i don't know that we're going to

01:27:16.680 talk well i was actually thinking about this and i don't want to derail this even further but bring

01:27:21.040 thoughts right now here we go um is this idea of um because i was struggling last night to think

01:27:27.020 about the venue thing you know yeah you were hot you guys are hot last night you guys are ready

01:27:31.680 for february boy we're discussing the flights with the flights everybody don't tell people do

01:27:35.900 that uh top and i are discussing what the next bohemian grove is going to look like in six months

01:27:40.020 and of course there's always a potential issue with the venue given the content yeah and top

01:27:44.900 is very confident in our next choice of venue but he actually spoke to like a couple of people that

01:27:49.560 work there where i only spoke to one and i'm not so confident in that individual if that's a place

01:27:54.840 that they will let us do it at we can talk to some higher ups and make sure okay so we have to figure

01:27:59.460 that out but um i was thinking to get um some sort of a plot of land and then do like a a you know

01:28:07.860 how they just do the pop-up warehouse style what would a pole barn yeah yeah basically just that

01:28:13.420 and then we could we've done a lot with a little we could make that a functioning we have access

01:28:17.820 to a stage we can build out the whole thing when we need to um if that would be an investment that's

01:28:24.360 worth exploring in the future and then to have that physical building and to do something there

01:28:29.360 that is you know i don't know if you call it church i don't know what it is i don't think

01:28:34.120 we would ever have like a church that had enough people to have like the the daycare by the

01:28:39.420 retired people but the current ones around here these guys don't know what they're talking about

01:28:44.180 The reality of the situation here is that

01:28:46.000 I don't know what I'm talking about.

01:28:47.220 It was 80% preparation and wires and plugs

01:28:51.480 and shit like that and decoration

01:28:53.540 and 20% preparation for content.

01:28:57.820 That's not satisfactory.

01:28:59.720 The people deserve a higher level of content.

01:29:03.960 So the more we can offload,

01:29:06.020 yeah, look, it's very dark over here.

01:29:07.540 The more we can offload onto the venue

01:29:09.660 that we're going to be performing at,

01:29:11.520 the more the people will benefit.

01:29:13.260 No, I agree with the venue you're talking about.

01:29:15.260 So it's like, that's where we're in this struggle.

01:29:17.100 I agree with you.

01:29:17.840 Like you did in the chat.

01:29:18.840 Well, no, I just don't know if the guy,

01:29:20.740 I just don't want to get kicked out.

01:29:22.240 I don't care about getting kicked out.

01:29:23.860 Well, it would suck.

01:29:26.040 Especially if they were like,

01:29:27.220 yo, you can't come back the next day

01:29:28.600 because the next day we want to do.

01:29:29.880 And the one you were talking about is like no holds bar.

01:29:32.400 You know that it's no holds bar.

01:29:34.120 The place we just did and got kicked out of.

01:29:37.400 No, no, no.

01:29:37.960 The one that you were talking about last night.

01:29:39.420 Oh, no.

01:29:40.060 It's a very similar issue.

01:29:41.320 Oh, that one could be.

01:29:42.220 i know they have what i do know about that place is they have comedians okay so that helps a little

01:29:48.680 bit but yeah there's always that like what if we don't get invited back for our second night

01:29:53.060 which is you know i don't even know how we would no no we could work that out at that place if

01:29:58.000 they'll let you though the thing is before we tried to do it at another place and they said

01:30:00.980 no we don't allow that because you're not a you don't live here sure if this place says yeah we

01:30:05.420 don't care if you live here or not we'll do it we can talk to some people all right well there's

01:30:08.800 definitely that but i think in the future it could be cool i mean what do you think about that idea

01:30:11.960 top of like getting a plot i always see we we pass by on the way to church there's this like

01:30:17.320 pop-up warehouse that's just constantly for rent and i'm like i wonder what it what it entails to

01:30:22.660 like get the plot and put that kind of a structure on it hundreds of thousands of dollars right like

01:30:27.460 it's only hundreds maybe under 200 but then we gotta save that money and do it yeah but then

01:30:33.000 we have the people for money to do it you gotta like there's plenty of organizations that do that

01:30:37.340 every week no i know that's not my thing you know my it's like we're always becoming a church

01:30:42.000 i think this is the third time i've said it today that nds is just a church but no i mean yeah but

01:30:48.120 i mean it just feels weird to be like hey in the modern we're we're here to uh equip you we're

01:30:53.220 stewards of the mysteries of god but we need your money every week dude like if you don't give us

01:30:56.880 your money and then we can't pay these mortgages and these debts that we have it's like that just

01:31:00.520 seems a little not right dude like in light of the bible like i like i'm all about like having

01:31:05.680 a church but it should be a building that i paid for patreon.com forward slash street bible i preach

01:31:10.640 on generosity we are called to be generous but that also means like that doesn't mean you have

01:31:15.860 to give it to your church go give it to a mission you believe well it's just sooner or later people

01:31:20.580 realize like oh we're here to give money like sooner or later everybody realizes that they

01:31:25.960 don't necessarily like to say it out loud but they're like okay like we do the show on sunday

01:31:29.960 to take up the offering i think i gave up the offer dollars to my church so we can do the show

01:31:34.440 on sunday yeah we go to the show on sunday so we can take an offer so what if what if you flipped

01:31:38.380 it what if the what if this model flipped where the emphasis wasn't all on sunday morning what if

01:31:43.940 90 of the emphasis of every church became what happens in your home in a small group gathering

01:31:49.540 and then you guys can totally show up on sunday and if you want to give to help make this thing

01:31:53.660 work whatever but at some point you're going to realize that the house stuff is way more important

01:31:58.480 than the sunday morning stuff and you may actually rethink how sunday morning do you know um

01:32:03.840 because i feel like you might know some of these stats like what percentage of pastors kids go off

01:32:08.380 the rails a lot oh wow yeah okay so like a lot why would we imagine if a man can't do it in his

01:32:14.380 own home that he's that we're just going to put him in charge of there's more to that and i hear

01:32:19.840 this all the time one of the big issues with why pastors kids go off the rails is because they see

01:32:25.360 what the church system does to their dad and they lose faith in the institution and in the people

01:32:30.300 in the institution it's not their dad they lose faith in and so like what happens is they don't

01:32:37.180 they don't want to go to the church because they've seen what it did to their parents okay

01:32:41.720 but nevertheless those men their children go off the rails and instead of them you know taking care

01:32:47.800 of those two or three children in their own home they're supposedly just leapfrogging and taking

01:32:52.480 care of two or three hundred but that's my whole point though is like it's not their inability to

01:32:57.220 take care of their kids. It's the system chewed up their family and spit it out. I don't think

01:33:03.440 that falls on that person as a parent. And I think it does sometimes. It definitely does according

01:33:08.460 to scripture because they're not supposed to be ruling over the church if they haven't done it

01:33:12.140 in their own household. But they're also not supposed to be in a system that looks like what

01:33:14.540 we're currently in. Facts, facts. That isn't present in the equation biblically. So many of

01:33:18.060 these things come back to that. But I think to your point, you're not going to have these

01:33:23.900 successful home churches in a church where the pastor doesn't have a home church in his own home.

01:33:28.900 Not if he is the head of the church. If you stop building models where the pastor is the guy and

01:33:34.920 everything is about him, if you realize it's all about Jesus and he's just somebody there to tell

01:33:39.460 you about Jesus so you can then go tell people about Jesus, it's just about equipping, then

01:33:44.860 the pastor actually just kind of becomes part of the body. Right. I'm just saying under this

01:33:49.540 current infrastructure that can't happen because a pastor cannot produce something he's not i don't

01:33:54.340 care if he teaches good preaches good if he doesn't have his household set he's not going to

01:33:59.360 produce so-called members or whatever of his church that have their household set correct

01:34:04.300 correct so like that's what we got to start with that's my point is like we got to start with like

01:34:08.980 people doing this and maybe there's going to be a gap for a couple decades where like people are

01:34:13.480 raising up their household right they're raising up the kids right the kids like but i'm saying i

01:34:18.400 think they can do that. And even if they do that in the face of this system, I think it may not

01:34:22.640 matter. You know what I'm saying? Like, because if the system is so oppressive to the kids on the

01:34:28.080 way they see it, treat their dad, it doesn't matter how good he's trained them up. Well,

01:34:31.620 and they feel like the dad has to choose this giant group of people over us. You hear that

01:34:36.300 from a hundred percent. That happens all the time. Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, I think those are all

01:34:41.000 issues, but I'm saying, I don't know that this system gets fixed by a bunch of pastors stepping

01:34:45.360 up and changing. I think this system gets fixed by normal people who love and know Jesus stepping

01:34:50.380 out into the world. For instance, the Great Commission says, it says, go and make disciples.

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01:35:58.980 It's not like go over here, go over there, go to China, go to India.

01:36:02.320 It's as you're going.

01:36:04.020 That's the Greek.

01:36:05.200 It's where you're at.

01:36:06.640 wherever you're at make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the father the son

01:36:11.600 and the holy spirit and then teaching them to obey all that i've commanded you which includes

01:36:15.760 going and making disciples of all nations but it's a circular commandment it's self-replicating

01:36:22.180 and so like because people try to play that well he said that to the apostles and it's like no no

01:36:26.140 no he said that to the apostles and then that then got replicated into every disciple made

01:36:31.120 what about that within the context of like we're taking a flight to india to go and make disciples

01:36:35.940 of of the people that live over there you're saying like for a mission yeah i mean that you

01:36:41.240 see that that language biblically of like some people do get sent out to the to the nations

01:36:45.860 right um i do think there are people who are called to it like i got a friend andrea who

01:36:51.660 she's a missionary in nicaragua and she spent eight years trying to determine if that was

01:36:57.920 actually where she was supposed to be because she's like i need to know that this is god while

01:37:02.100 she was already there or nope she was here she visited a few times and every time it's like she

01:37:07.120 just felt called she's like i'm supposed to be here i'm supposed to be helping these people

01:37:10.460 and she eventually did but i'm saying this wasn't like i also know kids who go out and fundraise

01:37:17.160 tens of thousands of dollars from their church to go on a glorified vacation and sit on a beach and

01:37:21.320 say they talk to some kids about jesus when really they just wanted to go some somewhere and see

01:37:27.260 another country i think you're right though there's some people that are absolutely called

01:37:31.040 to those other nations but it just it just sucks because when we live in america we're like dude

01:37:36.040 we could use some missionaries here man we could really use some people from other countries coming

01:37:40.200 here and preaching a real gospel we could really use like philly's got skid row yeah we really

01:37:45.220 could use some of our people like here from the states preaching here like but it's way harder

01:37:50.200 man like it's i've got friends of friends who have been to like india china all these places

01:37:55.260 you can't be underground churches whatnot yeah and they're building house churches and i'm talking

01:37:59.480 like planting 1500 2000 house churches while they're there like big stuff yeah really big

01:38:05.680 kingdom wins and then they come back here and they just fall back into the system oh it dude

01:38:11.660 this system it's a magnet it sucks people in yeah i don't know what it is about it but it's like

01:38:18.020 religious spirits i think well i think it's i think it's our our you go culture you go under

01:38:23.560 those but i'm saying it's spirit realm stuff you go under the authority of those religious spirits

01:38:28.500 it's just going to suck the life out of you but i don't think it's just religious spirits i i think

01:38:32.980 these people know how to do the thing but then they come back to america where it's really cozy

01:38:37.060 it's really comfy and it's like comfort doesn't breed growth well you hear that for missionaries

01:38:42.100 that are on the field right you say what's your biggest thing that you're fighting against and

01:38:46.120 they say other american missionaries coming here and paying our people to take positions now yep

01:38:51.880 like we've trained up a true church here other missionaries show up from america and start paying

01:38:57.660 them they build a building they do all this stuff and they just turn into american church in another

01:39:01.940 country they're like that's the biggest thing we're fighting against right like that's staggering

01:39:06.140 this is probably a good time for me to say i don't hate the church i love the church i hate all the

01:39:13.600 junk we've added on top of it that's not the church i don't think you have to say that we're

01:39:17.440 just having a rational conversation in light of the word of god i do for any believer that

01:39:24.160 how do i say this i said this top the other day i want to lose people on the meat and potatoes

01:39:29.560 of a subject i don't want to lose somebody on something frivolous and stupid and so i try to

01:39:34.960 be careful when i talk about stuff like this because i need you to follow me all the way to

01:39:38.660 the actual point because if i'm going to lose you i want it to be over that not over you coming to a

01:39:43.860 calculation of what you think i meant you know what i'm saying so i just i have to like reiterate

01:39:47.960 should i care about that i don't care about that is that something if i was i think both are good

01:39:51.760 just different applications different styles you're actively working against the system he's

01:39:56.800 he still finds value in it which i do as well i don't even find value in it i love the people in

01:40:02.360 it okay and when i was ordained when i was ordained i'll never forget my buddy bop looked at me he

01:40:07.800 said the day you stop loving these people is the day you should quit and i realized i was ordained

01:40:13.200 to a mission for the people of god not for a system and these people are under my care even

01:40:20.220 though they're in that system and so i'm like i gotta help them how i can and there may come a

01:40:25.520 time where i'm like hey i've helped everyone i can here and anybody left at this point i just

01:40:29.760 gotta wipe the dust from my feet but i'm not there yet amen that's why i'm still in it it's

01:40:34.120 interesting we were at church it was a couple weeks ago and there was a missionary there that

01:40:38.140 was talking about being in india and how he's been there how many years was it topples like

01:40:42.380 it was like 10 years nine or 10 years yeah and uh he's not not not a single member indian

01:40:49.660 civilian that they've interacted with the children that are poor and homeless none of them have given

01:40:55.240 themselves over to christ exclusively they're still trying to serve you know a multitude of

01:40:59.900 gods because their pantheon is never-ending so why not toss jesus into the mix or you know because

01:41:04.380 they have like little icons of jesus like among vishnu and krishna and shiva those little ones

01:41:10.820 the little jesus statues little duck face ones i saw a uh ganesh one the other day on a oh the

01:41:17.160 elephant right yeah yeah white women love getting that tattooed on them so uh that's an interesting

01:41:21.840 thing though because that guy hasn't felt the oh i'm sure he struggled with the compulsion to dust

01:41:26.740 his feet off and leave but for 10 years he's been there and can't claim a single victory having won

01:41:33.720 over somebody for the guy said that yeah freaking love that heavy dude cried he said he's been there

01:41:38.820 10 years and can't claim one not one dude that's a guy that was a real ass dude the god of the

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01:42:45.940 meal delivery service. And he put together a group of disciples. He's got the 12. Within that 12,

01:42:53.300 he's got the three that are very close with him. And then outside of that, he's got the 72. And

01:42:58.140 then you've got like the masses following, right? When he says, you have to eat my flesh and drink

01:43:04.340 my blood and you cannot be my disciple everybody but the 12 leaves yeah everybody and so my point

01:43:10.000 is that's god he had 12 real ones yeah like we're finite men like we we may be a drop in the bucket

01:43:18.520 but it's like if you save one yeah is it not worth it like it's actually pretty gangster as far as

01:43:24.120 like a ratio that compares to god you know what i mean like god goes down to 12 if you can get one

01:43:28.940 that's not that bad right that's actually pretty good in comparison which is the opposite of church

01:43:33.460 growth. Right. And that's actually why I don't think you can, like, I do not think any person

01:43:38.380 on earth is going to be capable of discipling 12 people at one time because that's all God chose

01:43:43.780 to do. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, can you, they're going to, they're going to

01:43:47.320 decide 500. Like that, like that's the staggering thing to me is I'm like, yeah, Jesus had 12.

01:43:52.620 You've got a thousand members of your church. Yeah. But that's not discipleship. Discipleship

01:43:56.640 is relational, right? Like it's iron sharpening iron. If I can't sit down with you and talk with

01:44:01.380 you. And like, I think you can do it online to some degree. Like you can have relationships with

01:44:05.520 people online, but even that's hard. Like you really need people like in person that you know

01:44:10.380 that you're working on. That's super crucial. Uh, because this whole thing of like, I'm discipling

01:44:16.840 500 people in my congregation. It's like, okay, cool. What's that guy going through?

01:44:20.900 So do you think that's the model then is going to be like, um, people that have a platform like

01:44:26.560 this where you can preach and people can get it from like all around the country,

01:44:30.140 but then advising them on like how to set up their 10 person Bible study in

01:44:35.060 their town in Kansas and their town in California and their town in Missouri

01:44:38.820 and their town in Pennsylvania.

01:44:40.700 I think so.

01:44:41.580 And can,

01:44:42.120 can I throw something out there?

01:44:43.400 I know I proposed this last,

01:44:45.500 uh,

01:44:45.780 last night in just a silly way.

01:44:47.540 And I think you guys brush it off,

01:44:49.120 which is really cool.

01:44:49.780 Cause I'm going to steal the idea if you don't take it.

01:44:52.020 But that whole,

01:44:53.000 uh,

01:44:53.500 that whole conspiracy camp idea,

01:44:55.200 I'm like,

01:44:57.160 I might do that.

01:44:58.260 Do it.

01:44:58.700 And here's my thought.

01:44:59.860 what was the context for that like well you were talking about what's bro grove look like next year

01:45:03.320 i said why don't you just do church camp yeah okay so that's a great idea but what if what if

01:45:07.560 you did a church camp where it's just like like truth or base like discernment based yeah but

01:45:14.440 then like what if i brought in like my buddy mike and he literally trains people for the like five

01:45:18.820 days or whatever like an hour a day or something of hey how do you run a church out of your own

01:45:23.680 house how do you read the bible yourself and then teach other people to read the bible what if we

01:45:27.840 just had basics like that and we got all the fun stuff and we got all the conversations about

01:45:31.920 wacky conspiracy so there's a there's already a a roadmap for that we used to do something called

01:45:37.240 pork fest when we were gay uh libertarians porcupine is the libertarian animal and it was

01:45:43.960 like that it was like uh three maybe i think it was a whole week but it was the same sort of thing

01:45:48.720 and uh it was a trail and you could walk around it but you were teaching people libertarian values

01:45:53.580 How to grow your armpit hair, how to grow mushrooms, how to steal with Bitcoin, things like this.

01:45:58.520 And you can kind of go to whatever tent.

01:46:00.220 But then they had the big one and they're like, all right, there's going to be a performance going on here.

01:46:03.620 Whoever, big name politician, whatever libertarian, will be there doing this at this time.

01:46:09.060 And it was just like that.

01:46:10.020 And people were just always buzzing and moving around.

01:46:12.460 And it was kind of an interesting idea.

01:46:14.520 It was hedonistic because it's libertarian.

01:46:16.600 So like at nighttime, it got very strange.

01:46:18.440 I think you're going to have that no matter what, even in the conspiracy realm.

01:46:21.920 Like it's going to get a little wild.

01:46:23.100 But like, maybe you just account for that and go, Hey, look, it's going to be a bunch

01:46:26.620 of normal people here that are trying to follow Jesus.

01:46:28.700 Yeah.

01:46:29.000 And maybe the point of this isn't to go, Hey, be perfect today.

01:46:31.900 Yeah.

01:46:32.480 Because Jesus, dude, he did not train the disciples for a long time before he sent them

01:46:37.320 out.

01:46:37.700 He had them for a very short time and then he started sending them out and he sent them

01:46:41.560 out with nothing because he sent them out with nothing for the fact that they needed

01:46:45.720 to know how to rely on God to see them through.

01:46:48.440 The next time he sends the disciples out, he lets them take their swords.

01:46:51.480 He lets them take their clothes.

01:46:52.400 he lets them take their money they get all their stuff but the first time they're not trained he's

01:46:59.120 just teaching them reliance on the holy spirit i like that and so it's like the second one i would

01:47:04.140 throw in there is uh with the trying to think what part it is it's where they get some new converts

01:47:09.340 to the faith from the greeks and they don't tell them hey you got to get everything figured out

01:47:13.880 today he says stop eating food sacrifice to idols and stop being sexually immoral that's where we're

01:47:20.020 going to get you started today otherwise get back to life right he says the bare minimum is uh you

01:47:25.780 can't eat anything uh sacrifice to idols can't eat anything strangled can't drink blood and can't

01:47:32.100 have sex outside of marriage right yeah it's like let's just start there we'll figure out the other

01:47:36.040 stuff later well there's other people where paul said i preach nothing to you but christ crucified

01:47:40.220 right he didn't that's not the story of paul as you read the whole bible he preached much more

01:47:44.060 than just well he even says i profess to know nothing but christ right yeah and paul's a wicked

01:47:48.520 but he says among you he says among you like that group that was all he was doing with that group

01:47:53.100 because it was like let's start with that right but that's huge so that that's you know a lot of

01:47:57.540 people within uh this community of like content creators uh will stave off you know if you've got

01:48:05.960 something to say about conspiracy or you've got something to say about occultism um they don't

01:48:10.480 want to touch it with the 10-foot pole which i understand but wait what do you mean who are you

01:48:14.720 talking about i'm talking about a bunch of different people not people in our sphere what

01:48:17.540 well i mean you and i know somebody personally i don't want to uh bring their name doesn't want

01:48:21.560 to touch conspiracy stuff not necessarily conspiracy stuff like um here's an example

01:48:26.720 of what i'm talking about with us i i genuinely love thomas the what did you say prayed for

01:48:32.620 american yeah and um and obviously what a stunning example that is huh yeah yeah i think it's it's

01:48:38.880 it's a fantastic example it's like could i have and would anyone have looked at us weirdly if we

01:48:45.660 said like thomas is doing stuff that you know he's a freemason and all these other things and i don't

01:48:50.580 want anything to do with that guy uh would anybody have judged us for that they would say no you're

01:48:55.200 going in a direction that's towards christ so yeah if you're going to drop thomas along the way

01:48:59.260 then that makes sense given your direction but i never felt that compulsion because thomas is a

01:49:03.400 real ass dude did thomas drop us is a great question never did never has never dropped us

01:49:09.560 he's been the same real ass dude from the very beginning and we were doing stuff that was wild

01:49:14.600 to people in wild spaces yes they didn't like it that scared a lot of those guys away you know

01:49:19.780 if we're going into like racial territory or offensive territory a lot of those dudes that

01:49:24.120 were surrounding thomas backed away from us because they were scared and thomas was a real

01:49:28.020 thomas yeah but you want to know how real he is then we turn and we're like complete jesus

01:49:34.980 right and he's still there yeah not agreeing with us but he's still there for the conversation so

01:49:40.660 Thomas is a person of peace biblically.

01:49:42.960 He's not on the same page as you, but he still loves you, cares about you.

01:49:48.120 He's a connection of sorts to other people.

01:49:51.820 He's there to help you even though he's not bought in yet.

01:49:56.000 That's biblical.

01:49:56.740 That's when Jesus sends out the disciples.

01:49:59.120 He says, go find a person of peace in every town you go to.

01:50:01.960 Stay with them.

01:50:03.180 Let them take care of you, whatever.

01:50:05.120 But they're not believers yet.

01:50:07.040 Yeah, but I see what you're getting at.

01:50:08.360 Well, what I'm trying to get at is just this idea that, like, instead of turning my back on him, since I like him, since he's a real dude, since he's a genuine guy who's been consistent since the jump, now it's like, yo, I'm thinking of a day when that dude comes over to the Lord and starts applying all those gifts that he has to, like, serving the kingdom.

01:50:30.360 Like, that's an incredible asset.

01:50:33.680 You know what I mean?

01:50:34.100 Like, that's a dude that I would love to see that.

01:50:36.540 So since I would love that so much, it's like, yeah, let's, let's pray for him.

01:50:40.820 Let's like keep inviting him to this thing.

01:50:43.120 Let's keep letting him see this thing instead of doing what a lot of other people or, or

01:50:47.980 even, you know, the church in a lot of examples would do, which is to turn their back.

01:50:51.460 It's like, but at some point it has to be like, would Jesus talk to this guy?

01:50:57.480 Would Jesus be hanging out with this guy?

01:50:59.460 And I just don't find any scenarios where I'm like, nah, Jesus wouldn't mess with that.

01:51:03.520 I don't find any, like, as I read through the scriptures, it's like,

01:51:06.540 quite the opposite dude like he's like that is what they're accusing him of dude they're saying

01:51:11.380 you're eating and drinking with publicans and sinners and freemasons okay it doesn't say it

01:51:15.300 like that but like we like those stories when it's 2000 years ago we don't like them when it's

01:51:20.900 in our day dude it's on our front door a lot of that is rooted in fear too right like i don't have

01:51:25.640 a fear of getting some spiritual rub from thomas because if the lord is with me then who could be

01:51:30.780 against you right like the whole thing i think is rooted in fear when you start to turn your back

01:51:34.360 on those people now if they're um engaging in like vile behavior and they're and they're debased

01:51:40.140 people that are like lying and stuff i could see to if you're not super solid in your walk and you

01:51:46.180 want to protect yourself because this person's a liar and they're a deceiver but that's never

01:51:50.340 been thomas he's never done that so i have i don't feel or owen benjamin same thing people

01:51:54.280 are like oh why would you talk to that guy you hear what he says about the trinity it's like dude

01:51:57.640 you tell me jesus if he was walking around right now wouldn't be like hey owen we gotta talk but

01:52:01.740 what do i see i see dudes that love the truth like that's what we see right solid dudes that

01:52:06.340 love the truth that are critical of institutions and all the same things that we're critical of

01:52:10.360 like yeah i don't have any problems by the way right he was a rebel but like to your point about

01:52:16.920 like the if they were vile or debased maybe then i'll be honest biblically and correct me if i'm

01:52:22.060 wrong on this chat but like the only thing i see of where you're to cut ties with somebody vile and

01:52:27.420 based is somebody who is already a professing believer in jesus christ and then you go to them

01:52:32.660 and say hey you're doing this thing we got to come away from this thing and they go no so then you

01:52:38.500 come back with two more people and you go hey you're doing this thing we got to come away from

01:52:43.080 this and they go no and then you bring them before the church gathering the church and then they say

01:52:49.860 no and then you go okay well then you don't want anything to do with this yeah we're gonna go ahead

01:52:55.200 and separate we're here when you want to come back into the fold yeah that's the point brother

01:52:59.840 it's never to somebody outside the no there's nothing they can do of course they're far from

01:53:05.680 there's nothing they can do that's like so offensive that we're like oh i can't mess with

01:53:10.040 this guy anymore yeah it doesn't work like that we're like yeah that's exactly what they do they

01:53:13.340 don't know god but it's it's also like i like i was telling you before the show i've been really

01:53:17.440 chewing on this passage where the hooker comes in and is washing jesus feet you know with her with

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01:54:24.700 delivery service and there's this whole exchange where like the pharisee is like oh this dude

01:54:29.440 thinks he's super deep and holy dude it's a super he doesn't even know that's a hooker washing his

01:54:33.960 feet man if he knew and like they the pharisee just didn't get it like jesus knew she was a

01:54:39.140 hooker and loved her anyway right like there's so much of that happening where the church like oh

01:54:43.880 they have skulls on the wall like yeah if they if they don't like if they knew what that was about

01:54:50.580 they wouldn't they wouldn't do it's like no no we know what that's about and like we're doing it

01:54:54.440 you know or they they just look at you and say oh he's talking to that person he must not know that

01:54:59.400 he's a freemason it's like no we do we know we love him anyway like what that that's where like

01:55:04.520 it gets really weird for me where we start thinking like church should look like this and

01:55:08.420 maybe this is another like a nod to the Catholic or Eastern Orthodox side of

01:55:14.680 things,

01:55:14.940 but even like the high Protestant churches like Anglicanism or Lutheranism or

01:55:19.740 whatever,

01:55:19.980 where it's like,

01:55:20.700 everybody's in all this fancy dress and everything is so polished and pretty

01:55:24.940 and holy and other.

01:55:27.220 And I look at the Bible and Jesus is just down in the,

01:55:30.920 in the middle of the junk.

01:55:33.480 He's getting his hair,

01:55:34.840 his feet washed with a prostitute's hair.

01:55:37.200 like he's being crucified you know he's living a brutal life he's living in the wilderness there

01:55:43.540 is nothing polished nothing pretty about any of it and then we we gravitate to this place where

01:55:49.160 like yeah but once you're there though once you know jesus now you got to start looking this way

01:55:53.400 and i'm like jesus knew jesus and i just knew jesus better than anybody else and he was down

01:55:59.660 in the junk dirty gross yeah living with the craziest people you've ever seen he didn't pick

01:56:06.120 the pharisees to change their hearts he could have he could have changed the hearts of the pharisees

01:56:10.940 god could have just said no you get it now that's not what he did he picked up the prostitutes

01:56:15.620 and the fishermen and the tax collectors the most hated scummy people in society and he built his

01:56:22.340 church on those people and so it's like why is it different now well he was getting the pharisees

01:56:27.340 too man especially the real ones right from the jump like nicodemus like i even see in a lot of

01:56:32.000 his stuff when he's engaging with them like dude he's trying to win them dude like he's trying to

01:56:35.740 in them too and he does eventually with nicodemus yeah but uh yeah and i don't see anywhere where

01:56:40.760 it's like oh and correct me if i'm wrong maybe you have found some of these passages where i'm

01:56:45.260 like oh on that day of the week he's acting different like that like that's his day that

01:56:49.980 he does like his religious activity that's the day where he's like you know the other six days

01:56:55.500 he's like doing this and that but that's the one day that he chooses to do like religious i mean

01:56:59.680 he does go to the synagogues and like he does preach but even when he does he's still like

01:57:05.440 doing crazy stuff exactly the same as walking in and saying yeah i'm the guy i'm the messiah

01:57:10.960 and then they take him out to stone him you know what i mean like so yeah it's not like he's fitting

01:57:14.860 in yeah i can't find anywhere where he's like talking in a different tone or using different

01:57:19.720 language it's like dudes yeah okay he's in the synagogue some days but he's talking exactly like

01:57:23.760 he is when he's out in the street so he's not doing like a trembly voice no no he's not doing

01:57:29.060 the pastor voice he's not doing like any of the stuff he's not asking for donations okay sorry

01:57:34.500 hold on i gotta say this though david you see it though see what the trembly voice right uh like

01:57:42.940 when they do it you're saying like yeah yeah i'm aware of it you notice yeah okay so if i i'm gonna

01:57:48.380 put it i'll put it on you don't put a box on my household if you notice that and you understand

01:57:53.300 why they're doing this and and then we can also look around and see why that other people don't

01:57:57.640 notice it yeah yeah that's it's a bit on you if you're going to be keep bothered no bothered by

01:58:04.060 it like you see through it like i don't know we just went and saw spider-man they they're doing

01:58:09.460 their 33 feet thing we know like the superhero rendition of the nephilim top instantly run the

01:58:15.300 movie for me sorry leaned over but that's the thing is spider-man's not professing jesus yeah

01:58:20.500 that's a different stop it doesn't no he's always sticking up for the 501c no i'm just saying if

01:58:24.900 you see through the spell don't be so bothered by it well well i mean you know i think it is

01:58:29.680 something that i have to decide is like do i keep going to the thing while they're doing the thing

01:58:34.400 that i am great as soon as it becomes a waste of time that's when you don't go i i will say

01:58:38.680 the greatest compliment i ever got from anybody was my buddy jimmy looked at me one day and he

01:58:43.380 said shout out to tell everybody that the way you preach is exactly the way you will talk to me if

01:58:50.240 you come in here and you sit down with me and we have a conversation man brother and that came

01:58:54.440 across really nice but you said the trimly voice thing and it got me thinking dude i will say you

01:58:58.760 do it no no no no no no no no no but i don't want to be perceived that i want to i don't ever want

01:59:07.460 to be perceived that i am doing that but what i will say is like dude i i've gotten to the point

01:59:11.940 in the last few months like i said i was kind of going through it where i always pray like hey god

01:59:16.440 you've got to talk through me it can't be me up here um give this room the words they need and

01:59:21.400 and like you know thoughts just sort of come i'll just kind of go off the cuff with certain passages

01:59:25.440 even though i know kind of where we're going and dude i get choked up preaching like actually like

01:59:31.320 and i always feel bad because i'm like don't you cry no that's like real preaching has emotion

01:59:35.520 behind it but i never want somebody to think i'm faking it and that's a real fear of mine

01:59:39.880 the real ones cry when they preach i've talked about that before like that that shaky voice

01:59:45.940 that trembly voice has to come from somebody originally emulating somebody else who actually

01:59:50.220 was coming to tears on stage you know what i mean because there there's a thing that happens to you

01:59:54.680 if you start to get choked up where it's hard to summon your voice and there's a lot of wavering

01:59:58.660 pitch and tone in your voice and in those moments obviously that's a powerful message that's going

02:00:04.460 to resonate because there's an emotion that's coming through so the the the congregation is

02:00:08.220 always also going to like i've never even compared those two things dude the ogs no it's like a

02:00:13.140 caricature derrick prince raven hill i've seen both of them cry when they preach dude and but

02:00:17.360 not a bot thank you but it's not it's not cute though like it's not either one of those guys

02:00:22.580 they're preaching fire and they cry and you're like embarrassed like it's not it's not cute it's

02:00:26.860 like oh dang dude like this this is hitting hard it's nothing like the the church voice if because

02:00:34.120 like i was talking about earlier like you kind of prep all week and then the thing happens and

02:00:38.380 you're like god speak through me i'll go back and listen to something it doesn't happen with

02:00:41.920 every sermon but there are some where people walk up and be like dude like that was really good

02:00:46.700 today and i'm like okay cool and i'll walk off not knowing how i felt about how it went i'll go back

02:00:51.480 and listen to some sermons it's like i'm hearing it for the first time yeah and not all of it like

02:00:55.600 i'm like oh i remember that part but i was talking to my buddy sam recently and we're wired very

02:00:59.760 similarly and he said like when he gets talking to people about jesus people be like i love when

02:01:04.320 you said that he's like i don't remember saying that right because i really do believe god uses

02:01:09.180 us as vessels if we allow him to it's still through our tone it's still through our timbre

02:01:13.720 our wiring but it's like he kind of hijacks your system and he takes over yeah and i think you just

02:01:19.040 have to let him and i think where we mess up as we go i want the holy spirit to move today me and

02:01:24.740 top talked about this the other day i want the holy spirit to move in this but then we go but

02:01:29.300 you got to move right here in this three minute segment that we've carved out for you to move

02:01:33.080 holy spirit and this system really kind of negates that it's not only that with the with the preaching

02:01:38.860 finney used to say uh that he'd be preaching and then he would say something to the extent of like

02:01:44.980 if you want this salvation if you want this life in christ stand up and like a thousand people

02:01:51.060 would stand up and he'd go sit down sit down yeah yeah yeah hold on sit back down i'm talking about

02:01:58.800 like you're going to give your life completely to christ like this is what you're doing your

02:02:02.460 your old self's going to die i'm calling you to salvation to this new life to be born again if

02:02:07.060 you want that stand up boom they all stand up and he finally concluded that like he was like i wasn't

02:02:13.840 i didn't preach anything deep there's a second half to that story a woman leaves that leaves

02:02:19.220 that service and she goes home to her bedridden sister who can't go to the can't go to church

02:02:23.980 and she walks in and she said you're never gonna believe it she said like 500 000 people whatever

02:02:30.580 just they all stood up and they gave their life to christ and she said i've been here for days

02:02:36.240 praying that god would bring people to to him today in this church service because that preacher

02:02:42.380 was coming to town and she'd just been in in her bed praying all day yeah and it's like and he had

02:02:48.200 a dude nash that would pray for him finney had a dude that he rolled with nash i think was his name

02:02:52.660 uh they would pray too but that's ultimately what he was saying is it wasn't by like great words and

02:02:58.300 great articulation of big words it was just like a very simple message and the holy spirit like

02:03:04.880 took it from there yeah can i give you can i give you a miracle i saw last year yeah uh i know we're

02:03:11.100 probably coming up close no no no there's no stopping time now dude we're in the in-between

02:03:14.760 time now so my my buddy tony um it would have been shout out tony tony's the man dude tony

02:03:20.520 he really is man this guy i don't know um but tony uh he's a pastor of it's it's more charismatic

02:03:28.780 church i'm gonna be real with you like the worship style not my thing like it's like very running

02:03:33.700 around it's wild flags but it's also not charismania like i like i think there's a level

02:03:38.780 that's too far they're not there no no tamarines shaking on the ground no shaking on the ground

02:03:42.680 that i've seen there's probably sound very pentecostal or charismatic it's not like it's

02:03:46.780 it's just more charismatic than like my church for instance where like you gotta like people

02:03:51.700 are breaking their arms to raise a hand right what i'm saying church of the chosen um yeah

02:03:55.280 this is chosen frozen i'm using that um but tony at he was supposed to preach on christmas and

02:04:01.860 not been feeling great for a few weeks uh he ended up telling one of his uh like co-pastors

02:04:07.460 like hey you're gonna have to take this from me i can't do this tonight and he he leaves and he

02:04:11.480 goes to the er and he gets in and they take him and they do an ekg they said we don't know how

02:04:20.000 you walked in here like you're dying and they put him in the room uh they realize his heart is

02:04:26.680 operating at five percent capacity and he's entering total organ failure they have a hand

02:04:33.140 pump that they run a catheter up and they're pumping his heart by hand to keep him alive

02:04:38.500 they've got him hooked on all these tubes i'll be so real with you i told you about my buddy mike

02:04:43.760 all these pastors we've all gotten texts from mike at this point and we're all like oh man we

02:04:50.700 will be praying for him but like we're we're just going to stay out of their way this has got to be

02:04:54.360 crazy there's gonna be doctors everywhere we'll we'll pray whatever mike just barges in mike just

02:04:59.040 shows up at the church he's like just there so he's he's texting us he's like tony's dying you

02:05:05.140 all pray now like we pray this has to be prayer and he starts telling everybody this dude's got

02:05:12.260 like 500 600 people nationwide praying for him regularly through this time jason and i jason my

02:05:19.000 co-host on the podcast we're driving to the hospital it's like three days later tony's hooked

02:05:24.440 on tubes it's bad it's all bad nothing we've heard is good they're telling him you're gonna

02:05:29.080 have to have a heart transplant or you're gonna die but you're gonna die if we give you a heart

02:05:33.280 transplant oh geez and so they put him in a room and they're like hey you're gonna die in here

02:05:37.480 they literally tell his family that they tell him that this is how this is being communicated the

02:05:41.780 whole time so we're driving to the hospital and i'm looking at jason i'm like so dude like tony's

02:05:47.440 going to die right like short of a miracle tony dies and jason's like yeah that's how i understand

02:05:52.440 it and so we walk in the hospital and i'm super weirded out by this because like this is a good

02:05:59.100 friend of mine and i know i'm going to walk in here and this dude's going to be hooked up to

02:06:02.700 tubes he's not going to be conscious whatever around the corner i can see the bed and there's

02:06:07.120 nobody in the bed and like for a second i'm like oh my gosh he's dead you know like that's the

02:06:11.460 first thought and i walk in the room and i hear hey what's up guys tony is sitting in a chair in

02:06:16.440 the corner of the room eating a salad he's got nothing hooked to him maybe like an iv you know

02:06:21.540 but nothing crazy and we're like hey and a nurse walks in and she starts talking to him so we go

02:06:29.340 over to the corner there's another friend of his in the room he's like guys this is crazy he said

02:06:34.280 um you know they put him in this room they said you're never leaving this room you're gonna die

02:06:38.880 here and now they're like totally changing their tone like something shifted or whatever so we sit

02:06:45.240 down with tony we start talking to him he said yeah i was at five percent heart capacity total

02:06:49.080 organ failure said i was going to die here and uh you know little by little you know it started

02:06:55.260 going up to 10 and 15 20 my organs started you know healing everything's starting to work now

02:07:02.640 and they're telling me i'm going to be out of here in the next couple weeks and we talked to his

02:07:07.160 daughter in in the in the lobby and she's like the doctors just keep saying they don't know what's

02:07:11.660 happening. They don't know how this is possible. And she said, I just keep looking at them and

02:07:15.540 saying, you don't know how this is possible. This is God. My dad has hundreds of people

02:07:19.980 praying for him right now. You're watching a miracle happen. And I'm going to be real with

02:07:24.220 you, dude. I've got nine years in ministry, six as a pastor, whatever, but nine years in this

02:07:31.900 ministry, I've never seen anything like that. I am so happy I got to see that because I've known

02:07:38.380 that's a fact i know god does that but like to see that on someone you know i walked in i'm

02:07:44.640 expecting a dead man i see my friend in a chair eating a salad like that's awesome i say that

02:07:49.500 because you know talking about the power of prayer bringing people to god like i mean prayer is so

02:07:54.000 crucial dude and we just don't do it eating well shouldn't be complicated but somehow it turns into

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02:08:56.160 and um i was saying the dark waters had me feeling all bad because you know he does the

02:09:02.320 he'll just break out in prayer in the middle yeah we need to pray about that right now it's like

02:09:05.660 yeah we do why don't i do that like a missing child he's like we won't pray well that's a

02:09:10.440 it's an ultimate declaration of faith right instead of bringing these things to god after

02:09:15.760 a bunch of systems fail you he does it instantly it's god is the first go-to to solve his issues

02:09:22.960 Right. He should be the first go to. Yeah, that's that's it. That's what he should be like the calculating factor for us. That's what powerful faith looks like. Right. I mean, it's I have faith in God so much that I don't go to this system. I don't go to this doctor. I don't do anything before I go to him first to solve my issues. Like that's that's what that looks like.

02:09:44.960 yeah and i don't think there's anything wrong with you're like lord i gotta get this resolved

02:09:49.280 i know you i love you i know you can heal this and he's like yeah but you can start with tylenol

02:09:54.640 like there's sure you can do that i'm giving you some stuff for this yeah i think yeah i think

02:09:59.600 there's both but yeah it's just a balance thing right it's like it's a lot of times we're just

02:10:03.540 like no it's only the pill or the doctor right right it's not god no but i mean i mean lesson

02:10:09.140 because i i would say that you know your your healing could well come through a system god

02:10:15.040 could be in that operating room with you and will be in that operate but i'm saying what i'm learning

02:10:20.740 more and more about god of what he likes is that that faith yeah it's like it's not you're right

02:10:25.880 that you're not going to go to god first and god's not going to put it on your heart to like

02:10:29.460 yeah bitch get in the ambulance like you gotta yeah you're right you're right and that should

02:10:33.580 be our first thing and even like john g lake the the ogs like early 1900s like they wouldn't go

02:10:38.200 to the medical system for anything like for anything they're like i'd rather die than go

02:10:42.560 to the medical system instead of god what zach is talking about and this is just something that i

02:10:47.100 picked up from the story is like yeah they're speaking death over you right they're telling

02:10:50.960 you you're gonna die in this room you're never gonna leave this room like that is but but they

02:10:55.700 have to mitigate but some of these oh geez they do but also like that situation is now ministering

02:11:01.660 to these doctors yeah oh yeah yeah yeah and tony's just sitting there his family's like no we're not

02:11:07.040 taking that yeah like we're gonna pray that god i've got a second one this one's really short but

02:11:11.680 uh larry crane was the guitar player for john mellencamp my dad knew larry hometown kind of

02:11:17.040 thing was your dad a musician too no it's born in a small town bro come on you know i know everybody

02:11:23.840 yeah so like i mean that's sort of if you don't know this person you know their parents sort of

02:11:27.680 thing right um well his mom patty um she got cancer she got like stage three cancer the doctor looks

02:11:34.800 etc he says you've got three months to live and she said no i'm good and he said yeah dude let's

02:11:42.780 go no you yeah i like that no it's like the doctor who said i give you you got six months to live and

02:11:49.280 then the guy uh couldn't pay his bill so he gave him another six months there you go yeah there you

02:11:53.640 go but she said uh no i'm good and she he said patty you're terminal and she said doc we're all

02:11:59.700 terminal i like she said we're dying everyone here's dying someday nobody's making off this

02:12:04.800 thing yeah she said but you don't know my jesus and she walks out dude she died 30 years later of

02:12:11.280 old age i love that it was terminal it was terminal yeah yeah i got her it was coming got her well

02:12:16.780 it's always coming right but like yeah i mean i think you get to determine like do you get to

02:12:22.100 speak death over me because my buddy cory just went in for a cancer treatment and his entire

02:12:26.220 doctor team they prayed over him before they did surgery i like well that's it you have to come

02:12:29.920 into agreement with it. Just a little throwback to that last discussion that we had on NDS with

02:12:36.220 Dr. Jerry Marzinski. He told us a fascinating story about a woman that was a patient of his,

02:12:39.840 a schizophrenic woman, who said that in churches and in the hospitals where she sees the most

02:12:45.520 demonic activity, it would make sense that the enemy would try to hit you, of course,

02:12:51.060 in something that deigns to be the house of the Lord. But within the medical apparatus,

02:12:56.340 she would see doctors giving diagnoses to patients and she could see in her in her state in her

02:13:03.780 spiritual state um these things coming out of the doctor's mouths like slimy black frogs that would

02:13:10.240 cling on to the patient and and it's like yeah do you come into agreement with that spirit like

02:13:14.880 that's what you're talking about is like yeah i don't agree with that like no uh i don't have

02:13:19.640 three months to live you don't know jesus but other people are getting that because there is

02:13:25.420 this authority that is the medical industry and when it diagnoses you it's if it's a death sentence

02:13:31.060 then that's what it is exactly so these people are coming into agreement with these spirits and um

02:13:35.360 and she was actually seeing that in the spirit which you know i think is is a is a god-given

02:13:40.420 gift that the enemy has twisted up and and messed that woman all up about but um yeah these doctors

02:13:46.140 are going around and they're just trying to make sure that they're covered as far as their liability

02:13:50.660 they don't want to they want to manage expectations they don't want you to think

02:13:54.560 that someone's going to be all right when on paper it does not appear that way then you might sue me

02:13:59.460 because then you might sue me right but through that that process that that's what it's become

02:14:04.840 now that's how they operate this the enemy is working through that and now you're coming into

02:14:10.080 agreement with these diagnoses these curses have you seen doctor sleep yes i have dude

02:14:15.140 what you just said reminded me of the cat uh remind me the cat would go in and sit down at

02:14:21.000 the foot of the bed of somebody that was gonna die what is dr sleep that's right it's the sequel

02:14:24.740 to the shining and in that movie or a tv show it's a movie and a book when did it come out

02:14:29.680 years ago uh ewan mcgregor great it is a stephen king novel he plays danny he plays jack's son but

02:14:36.360 grown up and now he's suffering his own demons okay but the whole thing is like that cat's kind

02:14:40.680 of like twist it's a twisted version of the truth like the cat's this omen of death it walks in

02:14:45.120 it knows when you're going to pass now you agree with it but well they look at it as a sense of

02:14:48.980 comfort and that's kind of what he becomes to them as he goes in and he sits with him that's

02:14:52.760 right and he becomes this sense of comfort to him but it's like no dude say go away yeah get out of

02:14:58.280 my room 100 don't agree with that it looks cute in the movie so yeah that's nice that's everything

02:15:04.300 that's uh so much of what i've learned from from ed mavery too and and laura baker you know we were

02:15:09.000 really blessed to have those people at uh bro bro but it's like they they really taught me this idea

02:15:13.480 of coming into agreement with these things like that is how the consent aspect of the spiritual

02:15:18.720 realm works uh to a large degree and so yeah man you're going to the doctor and they're speaking

02:15:23.540 death over you i think that's something i probably picked up on through your guys show because that's

02:15:27.860 not something i've grown up hearing a lot about but it makes absolute sense to me and you guys

02:15:33.100 have brought it up a lot well it makes sense within the scientific or biological term or you

02:15:37.380 know uh framework of the placebo effect you know because there's also the nocebo effect so it goes

02:15:42.740 either way if you believe this sugar pill is going to cure you of your ailment where that

02:15:46.940 there is faith in that i suppose or belief in that and somehow there is this biological function

02:15:52.200 that takes place in some people that's perceivable where they do get better right and so if that

02:15:56.580 works in that direction then what if i give you a sugar pill that says you're gonna die right and

02:16:02.460 so you know it's not a sugar pill in this instance it's words that are spoken over you which that's

02:16:07.200 prophesying right there's something powerful about the spoken word and if what ed mabry says is true

02:16:11.820 you speak a thing it happens in the spiritual and then it takes place in the physical there's so

02:16:15.780 many layers to why this could be and why it does make a lot of sense and so i'm 100 i'm in this

02:16:21.340 place now we're like i don't agree with shit man this one's kind of on that same uh concept but

02:16:26.840 like so my my wife is my wife i'm sorry this isn't that show no no it's fun it's fun it happened

02:16:32.140 yesterday i was like oh it just happened to me oh i did the thing everybody calm down

02:16:36.260 but uh so my wife's pregnant um got a baby due in december let's go here's the thing i like horror

02:16:43.520 movies yeah i really do i always have sleep you want to know why here i heard somebody really put

02:16:49.560 what i kind of felt like i said i'm good at like i i have all these feelings and i hear somebody

02:16:54.440 and i go oh that's the thing like why somebody would love a horror movie so there's this dude

02:16:58.320 called the lord's giant on uh instagram and he said this once and i was like yep that there's

02:17:04.240 this thing about horror movies that i love and i couldn't put my finger on it it's this

02:17:07.460 horror movies actually tell you who the bad guy is and who the good guy is they may be the only

02:17:13.180 type of movie that does that that's interesting you watch a comedy and the main character the guy

02:17:17.500 you're rooting for is cheating on his girlfriend and he's in all this trouble and they're passing

02:17:20.900 it off as oh this is funny this is good you should be rooting for this guy yeah yeah horror movies

02:17:25.000 go that's the bad guy that's the good guy bad guy is trying to kill the good guy this is the

02:17:30.960 whole problem of the movie yes that's real life and it's the only ones that get it right for the

02:17:35.500 most part i like that so i'm watching this movie called undertone do you know what this is uh no

02:17:42.020 i'm not familiar with what deftones is but i don't know i made it three quarters of the way through

02:17:45.720 the movie and you get to the end and you realize these these the whole thing is it's a podcast

02:17:51.960 horror movie so the whole thing is audio based you're seeing her in her room but all the horror

02:17:56.980 is happening through the pot through these uh sound bites she's getting from people and it

02:18:02.180 starts playing uh toward the beginning of the movie but towards the end of the movie you realize

02:18:07.120 it's all a ritual to summon this demon that crushes pregnant women and children whoa and i

02:18:13.780 stopped and i went i don't care if this is a movie i have to shut this off because this is too real

02:18:19.680 right now oh okay where i was like i've got a pregnant wife yeah but i guess what i would say

02:18:24.460 to that is no shit like that's why you don't watch horror movies like but they're not all that and

02:18:29.760 the problem is that that is the danger of horror movies you're fair on that you don't know what

02:18:33.740 you're getting into but you don't know what you're getting into with any movie you know what i'm saying

02:18:37.280 we went and saw spider-man and they're shoving free mason junk down our throat in 15 minutes

02:18:41.360 it's also like what is he doing when he's shooting webs i just don't see any benefit to the horror

02:18:45.940 stuff dude to just bring fear into your spirit for no reason i'm like i don't know aside from

02:18:49.820 the one i just gave you i might check that one out though undertones because laney says uh that

02:18:54.000 he liked it and nancy liked it as well and uh they're pretty good judges of of entertainment

02:18:58.940 in my estimation so nancy's in the chat no but laney must have had a discussion with nancy

02:19:03.300 oh crap i gotta call nancy's buddy about the thing i totally forgot he told me no right away

02:19:10.260 i know i was just trying to be funny though and then he didn't dang it that's an interesting i

02:19:15.220 do like that though that there's a clear delineation between the good guy and the bad

02:19:18.400 guy because oftentimes we've we've scurried just looking for an excuse to watch horror movies no i

02:19:22.960 mean he's it is a valid point though like in comedies typically the male protagonist i mean

02:19:28.420 it's less of a protagonist because there's not necessarily um a hero and a villain in a in a

02:19:34.300 comedy all the time uh you know overtly but they are like bumbling you know immoral kind of morons

02:19:42.360 dependent on the female for everything action movies dude john wick oh cool we're rooting for

02:19:47.620 john wick this guy just took the law into his own hand and eliminated hundreds of people and we're

02:19:54.000 like yeah they killed his dog i wouldn't watch that either what you wouldn't watch john wick

02:19:58.720 man i got words about you i i want to say them but it's your show um yeah man john wick crushes

02:20:04.280 that's ridiculous i can't i cannot believe it's a really fun movie really fun movie yeah you just

02:20:08.900 gotta go maybe i don't watch a lot of movies now that we're talking about it they're based on like

02:20:12.660 reality like i only watch like avatar avengers or like guardians of the galaxy it's got to be

02:20:18.100 like a other thing spider-man's good i might watch it but i'm gonna not gonna go pay for it

02:20:23.720 a movie theater i'm gonna wait till you're gonna pirate it no i'm not gonna pirate it i'm just

02:20:27.180 gonna wait a year to watch it all right okay fair enough um which is neither here nor there it's

02:20:32.320 not like it's whatever everybody's different obviously trying but that's wild you guys like

02:20:36.040 right now dude you heard the um i did the um i'm not gonna do the um it's your show everything's

02:20:40.940 Fine. No, please continue.

02:20:41.820 No, I'm letting you do your thing.

02:20:43.200 I just, I just, I thought that was cool.

02:20:45.400 It is cool because I,

02:20:46.480 I wouldn't say that that's why I definitely like horror movies.

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02:21:50.680 You're just looking for an excuse to make it right.

02:21:53.080 No,

02:21:53.380 it's an aspect of it that I've never noticed.

02:21:55.140 I don't care.

02:21:55.480 I'm going to keep watching horror movies.

02:21:57.060 I've experienced enough bizarre shit in my life that is,

02:22:01.400 is not due to horror movies.

02:22:04.480 And I think it's much more due to generational,

02:22:07.580 iniquity in other words i watch a lot of horror movies still and all of that stuff has entirely

02:22:12.040 ceased so i look at it more so for the it's it's surprising how accurate very many horror movies

02:22:22.720 very many very many paranormal movies in particular are in the way that they describe

02:22:29.180 the paranormal activity or the demonic activity they're what looks like a clever plot device

02:22:35.620 is almost exclusively

02:22:37.740 it's entirely adaptable to

02:22:39.880 testimony. Like it's

02:22:41.980 just reality. It's the reality of people

02:22:44.020 having these experiences so often that you're

02:22:45.980 seeing. So, you know, I don't

02:22:47.960 really... Oh, there you go.

02:22:51.000 Yeah. Matt, you can

02:22:52.080 actually read the chat if you'd like. Oh, yeah,

02:22:54.080 that's real. Dwight Cholkham.

02:22:56.120 Zach, you definitely

02:22:57.920 shouldn't tell Matt about working in haunted

02:23:00.120 houses. He'll judge you hard.

02:23:02.000 You know, dude, at the rate you're sending them super

02:23:03.860 chats you probably could have just bought a ticket that's all i'm saying oh he was the guy

02:23:07.620 that's supposed to come huh send it heard about you send the super chat let's read super chat

02:23:12.780 no i was that that was the only one i worked i worked in a haunted house for like 10 years

02:23:17.400 it's yeah you've mentioned 10 years in a haunted house it's a debased place yeah wait what do you

02:23:21.720 mean like a halloween all right you ready for this i'd really i've always wanted to either do

02:23:25.620 an episode or like a full-blown documentary on trying to get to the bottom of this i can't figure

02:23:30.160 out we're way off topic now i can't figure out what the cross section is between the haunted

02:23:35.920 house industry the professional wrestling industry the professional paintball industry

02:23:40.080 and porn oh and like the comic-con circuit what do you mean those people there are people that

02:23:45.120 like one of those they're all in one sphere bro they all know if you like one of those you like

02:23:50.560 name them again it's so it's haunted house haunted houses paintball i would put like

02:23:55.940 grin fairs in there too paintball paintball i know the paintball type i know what you're

02:24:00.420 talking about what was uh professional wrestling porn and like the like convention circuit so

02:24:06.400 besides the porn i would say the larp oh and disney well porn is a larp too would you say

02:24:11.980 like disney disney adults as well because that they all fall in that category that he just

02:24:16.720 described a little bit grittier than a disney adult it is grittier no i mean that the pro

02:24:21.160 wrestling crowd is very disney adult like now that's interesting i mean there's also you start

02:24:26.720 to get into other things like marvel and stuff you can toss that into that pot as well but i think

02:24:30.280 it might be the larp which is really interesting because what's a fantasy well just this idea of

02:24:35.340 shucking off your identity and just pretending to be somebody else um and i think most of those

02:24:41.260 industries that you've described they're kind of built on it they are built on that yeah right

02:24:45.480 because none of them are based on reality like a haunted house isn't real the way that people

02:24:49.140 in a haunted house is kind of crazy i went to a uh interactive play once i think it was called

02:24:57.220 sleep no more and it was uh mcbeth the shakespearean mcbeth and what happens is they

02:25:03.300 turn an entire hotel floor into mcbeth and you have a mask and oh i've seen that yeah you're

02:25:10.700 allowed to go so the hotel is completely decked out much more like apartments and stuff like that

02:25:16.420 It's not just like generic hotel rooms.

02:25:18.560 So each area you go in is totally different,

02:25:21.020 and it is as fleshed out as this library is right now.

02:25:24.120 There are pens and drawers and clipboards and books and everything,

02:25:27.480 and you are free to interact with absolutely anything you want

02:25:31.820 except for the actors who are acting out Macbeth around you.

02:25:36.440 Now, there's a scene that's happening.

02:25:39.040 You are free to leave.

02:25:40.280 It doesn't matter.

02:25:41.060 And you can go to another room entirely

02:25:42.660 and start pulling through drawers and reading notes

02:25:44.680 and doing all kinds of stuff.

02:25:45.840 and the idea is with a mask on you have this mask on this sounds so stupid it's super creepy it

02:25:52.060 sounds gay it was actually really well done so eventually what happens is you do all organically

02:25:58.260 or it seems organically but there is some rails that guide you to this last uh final act of the

02:26:04.400 play where everyone's standing in front of the actors and everyone's wearing masks and the big

02:26:08.480 finale happens um but there is this thing with the anonymity there's this i'm just gonna say

02:26:15.240 there's a spirit over it and there is this this um heaviness to it too because you're not talking

02:26:22.000 they tell you not to talk so you're not talking you're moving through this thing entirely

02:26:26.620 independent uh alone you're not with anybody um nobody can recognize nobody can see faces

02:26:32.600 and through that what emerges is this like it's almost like you know not as aggressive but it's

02:26:39.340 like an altar an altar it's an altar it's sort of what happens to you when you sit down like

02:26:44.220 on the comment section on youtube and you're like i'm untouchable right now very similar um

02:26:50.020 but you're just straight up inviting demons in like you're just straight up you're putting a

02:26:54.360 mask on i would say you're taking on this other personality you're like lending yourself over

02:27:00.200 to something so it's not something you're actively taking on because you're not talking

02:27:03.780 and you're not allowed to interact with the actors at all you're really just observing

02:27:08.420 but in this way there is like eating well shouldn't be complicated but somehow it turns

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02:28:10.540 many of the elements

02:28:11.880 that would be you

02:28:12.620 your facial expressions

02:28:13.800 everything is stripped away

02:28:14.960 other than Raven

02:28:15.940 and you're inviting

02:28:17.040 something to come in

02:28:18.080 absolutely

02:28:18.480 that's what they were doing

02:28:19.580 acting in general

02:28:20.160 gets weird

02:28:20.640 yes

02:28:21.100 in these older

02:28:22.400 parties

02:28:24.160 like they'll do

02:28:24.860 a masquerade party

02:28:25.960 we've spoken about this before

02:28:27.340 yeah

02:28:27.580 they'll cover their face

02:28:28.680 and then the masquerades

02:28:29.780 turn into something

02:28:30.460 like orgies

02:28:31.300 and it gets real wild

02:28:32.520 that's scary

02:28:33.420 it's a Christian show dude

02:28:34.460 I know but that's

02:28:35.320 that's the point of it

02:28:36.340 well there's the overlap

02:28:36.980 there's the overlap

02:28:38.180 to the porn

02:28:38.760 yes

02:28:39.660 yeah well like but going back to the porn thing i mean that's a larp too because it's the person

02:28:44.620 viewing it putting themselves in the shoes of the thing happening so you're saying that guy

02:28:49.140 wasn't really a plumber i'm sorry that was inappropriate it's very inappropriate what

02:28:53.980 was the other things there was five of them i don't remember okay so you worked in a haunted

02:28:59.520 house for like 10 years okay but what does that mean like oh yeah one month out of the year

02:29:03.340 yeah okay got it then like but then we would go like what do you mean you were like a guy with a

02:29:07.920 mask that would go scare people honestly through the later years it was just i made a lot of

02:29:11.960 friends in it and i would just go like we'd go make sure the place didn't burn down while other

02:29:17.080 people acted the position the beginning years you had the mask on yeah i was like 15 and that was

02:29:21.920 awesome and then by the time i'm like 18 i'm like i don't know that i want to work i kind of just

02:29:27.200 want to go walk around and make sure people aren't getting into fights yeah you know so it kind of

02:29:31.480 turned into like i always love that when people go to haunted houses then they try to fight the

02:29:34.620 I got punched in the face so many times.

02:29:36.420 It's like, dude, what are you doing?

02:29:37.740 Why are you saying that?

02:29:38.160 That's the thing.

02:29:38.820 Because you're, like, scared of them.

02:29:39.980 But they come drunk.

02:29:41.080 And then you scare their girlfriend, and then they have to act cool.

02:29:44.160 So then they hit you.

02:29:45.160 Yeah.

02:29:45.460 That's super cool.

02:29:46.360 What?

02:29:46.560 Yeah, it's really cool.

02:29:47.720 It's very cool.

02:29:48.620 We have veered from the path, my friends.

02:29:50.760 No, no.

02:29:51.100 There's no, like, we're just here, dude.

02:29:53.180 You're telling your story.

02:29:54.700 We're, like, unpacking stuff.

02:29:56.380 We already let you trash the 501c3, which you love to do, which is fine.

02:30:00.300 You really like that work.

02:30:01.660 We can kind of go wherever from there, dude.

02:30:03.620 oh is are they giving you the look like you got to finish because i don't know i can't read anybody

02:30:07.220 it's kind of fun yeah no do your thing dude tops just like what else so if top does very abruptly

02:30:12.120 like uh do the thing he does the money side oh you do it to matt too oh yeah when he wants money

02:30:17.620 dude he just goes like this dude was it what he doesn't listen if it was the end like if it was

02:30:24.020 like what else was the stuff maybe you hope we would talk about like in this episode anything

02:30:28.200 that's on your mind i i don't know man like i like i was totally prepared to talk bible but then

02:30:33.740 that would take a time well no this was really fun yeah why'd you invite no i'm really glad this

02:30:38.160 conversation has happened as is because we sort of had this conversation once before

02:30:42.260 but this is a different tempo not having a scream between us yes dude so much better so

02:30:48.360 yeah this this got a lot further into kind of i think my actual views on it how long are you in

02:30:53.900 this is it man i'm leaving right after this you're leaving right after this okay it's all good

02:30:59.400 i see what you're doing here's what i was trying to get a move down here dude

02:31:03.520 you can't do that to get into scripture like really really you know no no we're gonna do

02:31:08.760 shows like from yeah because we were running into trouble where i only had tuesdays before

02:31:13.120 yeah i've got my now he's a full-time podcaster yeah we can make something happen yeah but um

02:31:18.740 no here's what i'll say because i know you guys love compliments and i like to give them because

02:31:23.480 look at his face it makes you very uncomfortable and it's fun uh you guys i i hear you a lot of

02:31:29.500 the time kind of um it's not like aw shucks but it's kind of like aw shucks where it's like

02:31:35.060 oh no we don't we're not a ministry we're not you know like that's for pastor i've ever had

02:31:42.300 anybody actually define uh that term for me and i've never done it for myself it means your life

02:31:47.220 because i remember the first time somebody said hey what's your ministry i was like what what do

02:31:51.120 you mean? I'm like, you know, your ministry. They're like, yeah, like I have this thing.

02:31:54.960 And they just started like naming things. Like this guy was clearly going out of his way to

02:31:58.180 have multiple like ministries. And I just remember saying, oh, you mean my life? Yeah.

02:32:03.380 Like, and I wasn't, it wasn't like in a weird, I was just like, oh, you mean my life.

02:32:06.320 But it's a life of intentionality too. You know, like it's, it's a life given to God to preach the

02:32:12.560 word. And the reason I bring that up is like, whether you guys see yourselves as that or not,

02:32:17.360 you minister to me a lot you specifically on this show now you also i i i gotta you know there's

02:32:25.200 every once in a while you know when we're talking about you know eating charlie kirk or something

02:32:29.260 it might might get a little off the rails i'm like okay maybe this part isn't like it you know

02:32:33.960 but like as often as you guys do like there's this thing paul says where he's like in so much as i

02:32:41.540 emulate christ emulate me it's the same thing here there's plenty of parts of you there's

02:32:48.540 plenty of parts of me that do not emulate christ and i would tell anybody not to emulate those

02:32:53.360 parts of any person uh but there are a lot of parts of all of you that do and you guys are

02:32:58.520 doing something beautiful here seriously and this is my glazing of the show i appreciate the glazing

02:33:03.400 i'm mad that you waited so long to glaze thank you i'll just say thank you i know

02:33:07.200 i know tell me more keep going yeah that is interesting though that's something that people

02:33:15.460 say and um i don't have a context for minister or ministering like to be a minister to have a

02:33:22.640 ministry you shouldn't i don't have a context for those and when you're describing that guy asking

02:33:27.560 you the only context that i have is kind of like a dude in a suit on a stage yeah and even not only

02:33:35.540 that it's just like it goes with the same thing where people were like uh hey we're going out to

02:33:40.860 walmart uh to to witness oh that's crazy and i know people do it all the time like it's like a

02:33:46.660 and i'm not even like against it but i just remember the first time i was like what do you

02:33:50.580 mean they're like yeah we're going to walmart to witness and i was like well did have you been to

02:33:54.800 walmart lately to get like milk and eggs and stuff they're like yeah like well you're a witness then

02:34:00.280 too right and they're like no no but we're like going to witness and i just had this complete

02:34:05.260 disconnect between like yeah yeah but if you go there to like get the food and you're at the

02:34:09.880 register and you're like doing you're you're like if your alarm clock goes off all the time you're

02:34:14.520 a witness and they're like no no we're like specifically going to witness and i was just

02:34:19.020 trying to like wrap my head around i was like yeah i don't i don't i don't know somebody actually

02:34:22.780 brought up a good point do you mean maybe to witness the atrocities of walmart like is that

02:34:27.880 what they're saying to witness nightmare before christmas pajamas oh no it's true it's so true

02:34:39.320 but like to to that question of like what what is a ministry like we're we as believers you guys

02:34:45.660 have said this before like that top did when he was talking with uh who's the orthodox dude

02:34:50.680 uh alex soren soren uh you brought up like well you know it's my understanding that all the

02:34:56.100 believers are saints and it's like yeah that's the definition of the word right yeah the living

02:35:00.920 believer though to be holy is to be set apart it's the same word as saint to be set you said

02:35:07.000 that to him yeah yeah what was his response i don't think he liked it i don't think he liked

02:35:12.080 much of what top said but it was really good no i mean listen he was he was amicable he was a cool

02:35:16.180 guy no it was a fine conversation i'm just saying i don't think any agreements happened that's what

02:35:20.680 i'm saying fine though but like to that same point scripture also says we are a royal priesthood of

02:35:26.280 believers and so my point is there are no experts in the church but we should wear outfits like that

02:35:32.100 if we're like a royal priest no stop it yes no you dress like you dress you go where you go i would

02:35:37.040 love to see matt in some priestly robes it would be funny um it would be funny yeah would never

02:35:42.580 happen you know what it is i think the terminology everything gets hot because like if i were to say

02:35:47.740 this is a ministry then he's really into this dude you see where this is going just all of

02:35:52.840 this terminology right he's rubbing his hands you guys love you guys love the idea of us starting

02:35:57.240 a ministry then i would have to demand that there'd be some timing uh no it's that it's that um

02:36:03.520 33 percent the word dude 10 is the minimum no 33 is so so the the words get in the way of like

02:36:13.560 you would almost feel compelled to go like oh well on as far as the the the definition of

02:36:20.640 ministry goes this does fit that description what should we do about that and and and that

02:36:26.720 makes me want to throw that whole thing away and go like i'm not doing anything here's what i would

02:36:29.860 say stop stop trying to put a label on everything yes just recognize that you are a follower of

02:36:34.840 jesus christ yes and part of what it means to be a follower of jesus christ is to make disciples

02:36:39.000 of all nations and to teach them to do the same and for some that's going to be just a word you

02:36:44.860 have to give them for others that's going to be hey we actually need to talk you and me we need

02:36:49.720 to sit down and talk about some things right uh it's it's going to vary but it's like but is the

02:36:54.600 intentionality there and so i would just encourage you guys to lean into who you're called to be

02:37:03.500 and like don't try and like don't don't try and make this like oh that's for the experts because

02:37:08.660 that's what the 501c3 does no no i could see the raven now like at the grocery store tonight

02:37:13.200 it's people talking what do you do he's like well i have a ministry oh i have i do i don't do that

02:37:17.260 i shouldn't have even used the way he's looking i have look at it that's what sucks about having

02:37:23.840 all these conversations is all these words have what they actually mean biblically versus what

02:37:29.260 everyone thinks they mean biblically and you almost have to use them the wrong way to even

02:37:34.160 have the conversation yeah and then i got to go back and go so stop calling it a ministry

02:37:38.480 right you know what i'm saying your life it's like you got to work backwards then work back

02:37:43.200 forwards it's very complicated but that's all i got y'all so somebody gave us 550 jews and said

02:37:51.000 stay hydrated wow i don't know what that means man i don't know i do like the coconut water

02:37:57.080 though and the i don't think that that's what they gave you they gave you jews yeah whatever

02:38:02.980 you had to first liquefy them so back to this idea of uh us starting a church top's like really into

02:38:08.100 that dude where there's like a sermon right away and then he does the music yeah

02:38:12.440 he's definitely not throwing up money signs dude whatever i feel like no no i'm just i'm

02:38:20.620 i'm baffled at because i can tell uh he's trying to bring it in oh yeah he had a great opportunity

02:38:25.280 yep it was right there he said i'm gonna continue yeah it was right there he's gotta learn no no i'm

02:38:31.400 not anxious to end it if you are because i got time i just got to do a thing at 3 30 i just want

02:38:35.600 make sure zach had all of his chance to say everything he wanted to say i got it man i think

02:38:39.680 that was when he said um that's all i got yeah i think that's what that meant yeah okay hit the

02:38:44.200 close button top quit screwing around you're not gonna uh have him do plugs oh now you want him to

02:38:49.260 do plugs it's good to do them twice i find yeah do the plugs all right y'all uh i'm from the berean

02:38:54.760 files we've been going for four months five months now and uh i would love your likes and subscribes

02:39:01.120 and follows and five-star ratings and all those things but if you're on spotify i messed up and

02:39:07.100 i made a creator profile and it created a whole second channel so if you go to one with zero

02:39:11.880 ratings don't do that one go to the other one with the ratings until i figure we did that before

02:39:17.080 dude it sucks uh but yeah otherwise thank you and matt you should plug your stuff too you have to

02:39:24.140 tell them where to uh support your mini bible.com oh my god just kidding go to patreon that's like

02:39:30.200 the we have patreon we have instagram and also be listening on audio

02:39:35.240 yeah listen on audio dude i don't even know what all the

02:40:00.200 You

Nephilim Death Squad - August 26, 2026

The Evil Eye w⧸ Zack Killey - Matthew 6

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