Order of Man - Bad promotions, Good Cults, and Drunk Friends ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

00:00:00.000 I can't think of a principle in Stoicism.

00:00:02.980 I mean, the whole concept of Stoicism is to understand your emotions,

00:00:07.380 regulate yourself well, know who you are, know what triggers you, respond properly.

00:00:12.940 Yeah, I mean, Jesus Christ, how many times have we seen stories

00:00:17.600 where he had every reason to blow up and chastise and criticize and mock and be upset?

00:00:24.140 I mean, even on the cross, he was Stoic.

00:00:26.820 He's telling God, forgive them. 0.93

00:00:30.000 as he's nailed to the cross. That seems like it's a pretty complimentary concept.

00:00:36.340 Kip, what's up, man? It's good to have you back. Alan did a great job filling in

00:00:40.180 in your stead while you were gone, but you had a family wedding to attend. How was it?

00:00:45.960 Yeah, it was phenomenal. It was in Portugal, in Centra area outside of Lisbon, and it was

00:00:52.540 just beautiful, man. It's kind of weird to marry off a kid, so that in itself is a different

00:00:58.300 experience, but wedding was phenomenal. It was beautiful, um, beautiful bride and groom. It was

00:01:05.360 perfect. So feeling awesome. Feeling blessed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You should, it looks like you

00:01:10.780 guys had a good time and, um, I haven't heard much about it, but was missing you on the podcast.

00:01:15.080 Like I said, Alan did a great job filling in, but it's always good to have you back and,

00:01:18.780 and get back into a routine. And I know a little bit about how you work. Cause we are the same.

00:01:23.780 there's a there's a there's a limit on vacation days in a row for me and once I get past I could

00:01:34.520 do maybe four or five days I'm pretty good once I get past that it it loses its luster

00:01:41.760 gradually for every day after that for me so I know you feel a little bit of the same way

00:01:48.020 you've talked about that in the past yep totally four days is usually my my window as well and

00:01:53.400 then I have to start being productive and get a schedule going or something.

00:01:57.540 For sure, man. For sure. Well, speaking of being productive, I know you're on a bit of a hard stop

00:02:02.580 time crunch today. So what we're going to do for guys who are just listening, tuning in for maybe

00:02:07.280 even the first or second time, this is our ask me anything. So we're fielding questions from you

00:02:11.480 guys and we've got some good ones today. And hopefully we can give you something to consider,

00:02:18.380 something to ponder on, maybe something to laugh at, because we'll probably say something dumb 1.00

00:02:21.940 and stupid and put our foot in our mouth. But you know, all part of the fun. So Kip, why don't we 1.00

00:02:26.940 just get right into questions today? Sounds great. Sounds great. All right. First question from

00:02:31.600 Marcus Bellwether. I finally landed the promotion I've been chasing for three years, but now I'm

00:02:38.960 working 60 hour weeks and my kids barely see me. Was it worth it? I mean, be careful what you wish

00:02:46.900 for, right? Cause you might, you might just get it. Uh, there's been times in my life where I

00:02:52.080 have gotten exactly what I wanted and realized that there was a bunch of strings attached that

00:02:57.840 I didn't either, either account for, or I just overlooked because I was so narrow focused on

00:03:03.800 achieving whatever that objective was. I can't tell you if it's worth it or not. I mean, how,

00:03:09.040 how could I make that decision for you or, or, or tell you it is or isn't you have to make that

00:03:15.000 decision. I'll tell you where I think it could be worth it. If it's a temporary situation, you know,

00:03:20.800 60 hours a week is a lot of time to be away from the family, but sometimes that's what's required

00:03:25.880 of as a man. It really isn't until the relative ease of modernity that we've started to question,

00:03:33.280 you know, being with or away from our family for any period of time, 50, 80, 100 years ago,

00:03:39.940 You know, even in war, I think about this. Our warriors used to spend months and months on ships to get into theater before they even started their tour. They didn't see their family for literally years at a time. And I'm grateful for modern times, but also like that's just what a man has to do at times.

00:04:00.060 So if it's temporary, I would say it makes it more worth it. And so maybe you do start having the conversation about how long you need to put in these hours of work and then what it looks like after the fact. Because then if it settles down back to 40 hours a week, it sounds like that would be a pretty good opportunity for you.

00:04:18.680 So I would just start looking at it and saying, okay, what am I trading?

00:04:21.720 What am I giving up?

00:04:22.560 But then there's other things that you should definitely do, like communicate with your

00:04:25.800 children, let them know how this works, what's going on, what kind of work you're doing.

00:04:31.500 I went upstairs this morning and we had an iron council call, our all hands Friday call.

00:04:37.840 And I went up there and my son, he's 10 years old.

00:04:39.980 He's like, how'd your call to go, dad?

00:04:41.940 I'm like, oh, it went really good.

00:04:43.060 Thanks for asking.

00:04:43.640 He's like, yeah, how many people did you have on?

00:04:45.900 And I told him, he's like, oh, is that a lot or a little?

00:04:48.680 I'm like, it's a little lower than it normally is, but it's still a good amount of men that we

00:04:52.900 had on the call. He's like, Oh, that sounds like a lot of people. That's cool. What'd you guys talk

00:04:55.880 about? This is a 10 year old. And he's asking me questions about my job and my business because

00:05:01.160 I include him in it. He's part of the deal. It's a package deal. So I think having those

00:05:06.360 conversations is going to be crucial. And then just being just ruthlessly committed to your

00:05:12.000 schedule and protecting your time off. Like when you're done, you're done. That time is then your

00:05:17.060 wife and your kids and, um, protect that minimum time at all costs. That's, that's how I would

00:05:23.100 look at it. Yeah. Isn't this classic, you know, classic human behavior, right? Us desiring

00:05:30.500 something without being clear on the associated cost of it. Yeah. And this is a good testament.

00:05:37.200 Obviously I'm not sure if Marcus knew it was looking at 60 hours a week, probably didn't,

00:05:41.560 right? Otherwise he probably wouldn't have this question, but how many different areas of our

00:05:45.440 lives we do this. Oh, I want this, but I don't clarify what's required to get there. And there's

00:05:52.060 power in sometimes us clarifying what's going to take to get there and then deciding to no longer

00:05:57.360 desire it. I mean, talk about an upset. Oh, I'm going to seek something that I'm unwilling to

00:06:02.860 pay the price for. Then let it go and stop seeking after it if you're unwilling to put in the

00:06:10.560 necessary work. So maybe a good testament for all of us to consider, what are these things that

00:06:14.900 we're seeking out in life where we haven't gotten clear on the associated cost. And maybe if we did,

00:06:21.080 we would maybe pivot our direction, right? Or our desires or our efforts, maybe towards something

00:06:27.180 else. Specifically to Marcus though, like, you know, be careful, right? How often, you know,

00:06:34.260 we think that something's hard, we go just work harder. And I'm at fault with this. Like,

00:06:41.340 you know in the iron council we covered a book called oh my gosh what was the book um oh shoot

00:06:48.480 give me a hint is it effortless effortlessness no it was um oh my gosh is it the the it's not

00:06:56.200 the one thing i don't know no no the premise of the book was that i got out of it one of my

00:07:03.500 biggest takeaways is that i might have latched onto this identity that if i'm not working hard

00:07:09.980 that I'm not providing value. And that's not necessarily true. And so be careful, Marcus,

00:07:16.120 that you're not falling into this pit of like, well, I got to put in 60. Well, do you?

00:07:22.280 Are you delegating appropriately? Are you prioritizing your time appropriately?

00:07:27.600 Just don't go to the default that 60 hours are required. That may not necessarily be true.

00:07:34.000 i think that's a good point i think we do as men have a tendency to believe that it counts more if

00:07:40.680 we're suffering greater you know it's like the more you suffer the more it counts like well what

00:07:46.360 if you could produce the same results with half the suffering that doesn't that sound like a good

00:07:51.480 thing but then we feel like well then i'm just being lazy or weak or you know fill in the blank

00:07:56.520 with whatever you say but that's the whole concept of just working smarter not harder i also like

00:08:02.640 what you said, Kip, too, about making the deliberate and intentional choice not to pursue

00:08:08.360 something. There's this phenomenon that a lot of us deal with, especially with the rise of

00:08:13.060 and proliferation of social media, is FOMO, fear of missing out. You know, you jump on, let's say

00:08:19.660 there's a big event that all your buddies are going to this week, and you can't make it for

00:08:26.360 whatever reason, work, family obligations, other conflicting things in your schedule. And you're

00:08:32.700 seeing all the pictures and you're looking at it all. And you're like, oh man, like I wish I was

00:08:36.440 there and I'm missing out. And what are they talking about? What am I missing out on? I think

00:08:40.480 you begin to eliminate a lot of that when you, instead of just default your way through life,

00:08:45.720 you become more intentional with your life. So I've pulled up hunts and other things that I've

00:08:50.100 been invited to that I have not been able to make. And when I started making the switch between

00:08:54.640 deliberately and intentionally choosing things to do, it diminished my fear of missing out because

00:09:01.280 I said to myself, oh no, I consciously made the choice not to go do that thing because this thing

00:09:08.820 was more important to me in that moment. And it alleviates so much frustration and jealousy and

00:09:17.400 feeling like you're missing something that the guys are doing because you deliberately and

00:09:22.260 intentionally made a choice to do something else instead of just defaulted to wherever the winds of

00:09:28.500 your calendar or your demands took you. Yeah, totally, totally. I love it. All right,

00:09:35.240 Dale Kirkwood, my dad never told me he loved me, not once. I say it to my sons every day,

00:09:43.340 but part of me wonders if I'm overcorrecting. Can you overdo affection as a father?

00:09:49.140 this is interesting it's a good well the answer is yes and i'll explain what i mean yes you can

00:09:56.640 overdo it i'll explain that i actually don't i don't know the situation i'll say it this way

00:10:02.480 i would question the premise of your question he never said he loved me yeah maybe he didn't

00:10:09.800 use those words but ask yourself did he show you his love for you in other ways you know a lot of

00:10:16.020 old time guys, like they're not going to be affectionate. They're not going to say, I love

00:10:19.920 you, but they'll work their tail off. They'll sacrifice. They'll come to all your games.

00:10:26.560 They'll administer discipline righteously with love and care. And I'm not saying that was your

00:10:35.360 case. I don't know, but don't assume that just because he didn't use those words meant that he

00:10:41.380 didn't express some sort of love for you. He may have, and you've just overlooked it for some

00:10:46.080 reason. So that's one thing. I think it's always just important to challenge our narrative,

00:10:53.620 challenge our stories. It gives us a new way of looking at people. And I think it affords people

00:10:59.520 more grace than we normally and naturally would allow them to have from us. But as far as overdoing

00:11:06.280 it on affection yeah it's like um have you ever had like somebody like scratch like your wife she

00:11:13.580 scratches your back or scratches your arm and it feels so nice right she's you're sitting on the 0.66

00:11:19.060 couch watching a movie and she's scratching your back and then she starts doing it in the same

00:11:23.440 pattern like small circles because she's getting into the movie and it's the same thing over and

00:11:28.520 over and over again and what felt really good now becomes obnoxious and you're like god stop

00:11:34.040 because she's scratching in that same little area over and over again. And now it's just a nuisance

00:11:39.740 and an annoyance. I actually think the same thing can happen with the way that you, that you love

00:11:46.420 people. And if you do something way too much, way too frequently, way too often, it loses its power.

00:11:52.620 It stops, it stops having potency with it. And I'm not saying you should withhold love. So it

00:11:58.560 means more. I'm just saying that if you always are like, I love you, I love you, I love you.

00:12:03.220 at some point it's like, I got it. Like, yeah, I know. I love you too. Like, give me a break for

00:12:09.460 a second. And then there's one other thing to consider here. I would ask myself if I were in

00:12:16.220 your shoes, why, why I feel the need to say that. And you kind of gave us a backstory, but the way

00:12:22.820 that you framed it makes it sound as if you need to do that for yourself, not for them. And then

00:12:31.660 what happens is you become needy and clingy and obnoxious. So I would wonder and just have

00:12:41.080 yourself consider, is that really what you're doing? You're trying to know that they're loved

00:12:47.040 or are you trying to overcompensate and correct because you feel some hole or you feel some

00:12:53.580 inadequacy and you want to make yourself feel better by being a better father? I don't think

00:13:00.000 there's anything inherently wrong with that. But if it's that motive, you could become very

00:13:05.120 clingy, very needy, very overbearing. And I think your kids at some point will probably try to put

00:13:12.020 some distance between you if that's the case. Totally. And what happens when they go silent

00:13:20.120 and they don't say, I love you back? What then? Because the whole point you're doing it anyway

00:13:25.400 for validation. Now you're going to get upset. It's a form of manipulation. Yeah, I love that,

00:13:30.640 Ryan. I think that's a really, really good point. The only other thing that kind of came to mind

00:13:36.540 regarding Dale's situation and is know what love is. I mean, we all know this. You guys listening,

00:13:44.820 you know this. I'm sure we've referenced the five love languages probably a hundred times over the

00:13:50.060 years, but love looks differently for everybody. And it's obvious in the backstory, right? My dad

00:13:57.220 never said it. Okay, got it. Dad probably didn't care much about words of affirmation

00:14:02.020 and his love language is probably acts of service. So all those times, Dale, where you never took out

00:14:08.460 your garbage and you didn't get your room clean and you didn't help him out in the field, guess

00:14:12.180 what dad was probably feeling? That you didn't give a crap about him, right? So like, let's just 0.99

00:14:17.820 be mindful. People see love differently. And, and that's probably a good question. In fact,

00:14:22.500 you know, I, this, my takeaway coming out of this podcast is like, Oh, do I know the love languages

00:14:27.120 of my kids? I've actually never thought about doing that. So that's my action item coming out

00:14:32.940 of this is like, I should know what that is for each of my children, uh, and kind of meet them

00:14:36.740 where they are. I think there's actually a four kids version of the five love languages. If I

00:14:43.200 understand correctly, I'll have to look, but I actually think there is a four kids version of

00:14:46.880 that. But yeah, I mean, finding out their love language, but then also speaking to them differently

00:14:51.760 at different times, because to me, it's, it's fun to figure that out. You know, sometimes it is

00:14:58.060 words of affirmation and other times it's like, Hey kids, like we're going to go on a vacation

00:15:02.860 and that's a gift, right? And a gift. Uh, other times it might be, Hey bud, let's go out and go

00:15:10.060 hit some batting practice. Or my oldest son likes to shoot lacrosse and train. And so I'll go out

00:15:15.500 there and shoot with him. Like I don't directly say I love you in those moments, but that's an 0.94

00:15:20.820 act of service. I'm training with him. I'm helping him. We're spending time. We're laughing. We're

00:15:24.920 getting to know each other better. So to your point, there is a lot of different ways to do it

00:15:28.760 and it just keeps it more engaging. It keeps it more fun for you and, and for the people you're

00:15:33.220 trying to express your, your love for. Yeah. Yeah. There's power in that novelty of it. There really

00:15:38.440 is. Absolutely. Yeah. All right. Trent Osgood. How do you rebuild trust with your kids after a

00:15:45.500 divorce when they blame you for it? And even, even if you weren't the one who left.

00:15:53.940 Yeah. Well, yeah. Uh, narratives, right. Going back to narratives, they're going to create a

00:15:58.420 narrative and it's going to be based on their own experiences, based on what mom's saying,

00:16:03.060 based on what you've said and i had this i had i had some of this i still deal with a little bit

00:16:09.120 of the fallout from this with my daughter in particular um i think the first thing that you

00:16:16.920 need to do is just be very very honest about the situation you don't need to overshare information

00:16:23.680 they don't need because there's a concept called parentification you don't want to turn your

00:16:28.800 children into parents. You don't want them to, you don't want them to think that they have to

00:16:33.500 take care of you in some way or manage your emotions or, you know, to take care of you

00:16:38.460 somehow that happens all the time. It's horrible for, for kids. Um, so you wouldn't overshare that

00:16:44.500 way and you got to consider your motives for sharing. But if you haven't done this already,

00:16:49.560 the first step is to sit down with each of your kids as appropriate based on their age and

00:16:55.060 maturity level and just have a reckoning, you know, have a, and think about that word reckoning,

00:17:01.820 reconcile, right? Reconcile means aligning two different things. So if you're reconciling your

00:17:09.000 bank account, you're, you're actually looking at the numbers on your bank account and rest

00:17:13.400 reconciling it with the expenses that you've had to make sure everybody's on the same page and

00:17:17.700 it's all matching. Well, reconciling in, in a relationship with your children is to say,

00:17:24.100 hey guys, like here were my actions. Here's me acknowledging my actions. And here is my plan

00:17:32.120 moving forward. So if you've never had a deep conversation about whatever they think it is,

00:17:40.240 and it's really not about you, but whatever they think is happening or whatever reason they're

00:17:45.620 blaming you, I would have a real honest conversation and not try to justify, not try to

00:17:52.860 rationalize. A lot of us as men will say, well, if only they knew the actual story, if only they

00:17:58.740 knew my side of the story, then it would be okay. You know what that sounds like? It sounds like

00:18:03.880 you dismissing or invalidating what they're feeling. So acknowledge how they feel. If it's

00:18:11.960 way off base, thank them for the hard conversation that it requires, the courage it requires to tell

00:18:19.600 or dad, something uncomfortable. And then just be very honest and upfront. Like, Hey, you know,

00:18:25.520 guys, I did this and this, I would have done that differently. I'm sorry. Here's the, here's the

00:18:30.780 pain it caused for you and for mom. And here's the fallout from that. I don't think you should

00:18:36.960 shy away from that. And the more conversations I had about those types of things, the more my kids

00:18:42.640 realized oh okay well maybe dad still is to blame but at least he's coming to terms with it he's

00:18:50.120 being honest with it he's being truthful with us and he's following through on the plan that he

00:18:55.200 told us he was going to live to and that's the that's the impetus for building trust in any

00:18:59.460 relationship trust yeah honesty i love it and i don't know like i i love to deep dive into this

00:19:07.400 a little bit and say it's like what is it well you know what i mean like when in this circumstance

00:19:11.600 or even in other circumstances, when someone doesn't trust us, what does it mean not to trust

00:19:20.940 someone? That we question their motive, maybe. We question whether they care about us, right?

00:19:29.760 Or if they're reliable, right? And so I would beat that up a little bit and say,

00:19:34.900 you might beat that up and go, oh, well, um, actually it's warranted because ever since the

00:19:41.800 divorce, I'm inconsistent. I'm not reliable. You know what I mean? Like, so really, really beat up.

00:19:47.980 What is it right? That generates trust. And, and I've used a formula and I'll share it here

00:19:53.160 as a consideration. It's not truth. It's not absolute. I'm sure there's elements of it that

00:19:57.500 I'm missing. But I call it the three, what is it? Three C's times I. And the three C's are

00:20:08.760 character. So you have to be a person of integrity of some sort, right? Your character can't be out

00:20:15.520 of whack, right? Character, consistency. And consistency is really interesting because we

00:20:22.460 don't think about this very often, but if you're an unreliable resource or people don't know what

00:20:27.300 they're getting from you, they can't trust you. So consistency is super important.

00:20:33.500 The third, I'm shooting off the hip here, I'll probably miss something, is connection,

00:20:39.940 some form of relationship with them. We don't trust people blindly that we don't have a

00:20:45.580 connection with. And then the fourth, which is the time's eye, is intent. I've been around people

00:20:53.260 that, oh, it's connection. I may have messed that up. It's actually capability. Are they capable?

00:20:59.940 That's more of a, in a work environment, but connection is good for our kids. But intent

00:21:05.340 is why are we doing what we're doing? I've, I've worked with people that had great character.

00:21:11.680 They were consistent. They were great at what they did, but their intent was out of alignment

00:21:17.900 with what I wanted. And none of that mattered. It was, they were doing it for their own benefit

00:21:24.740 or something else. And so intent is super, super important. And actually, if intent is not aligned,

00:21:31.660 it will, all those other things actually don't matter if, if intent is not aligned with,

00:21:37.000 with what they want. Yeah. I love that. I love it. I, you know, the one that really,

00:21:43.000 that I, that I hone in on this is consistency. That's been the most helpful in the relationship

00:21:47.420 with my kids as a result of the fallout from the divorce. But one thing that's really important to

00:21:54.760 know, and I think this is a man's moral obligation and it goes for any relationship, is that you

00:22:01.940 want your people to be safe, to feel safe. If they feel safe, it's kind of like discipline equals

00:22:10.280 freedom, right? If they feel safe, they're free to express themselves. They're free to flourish in

00:22:16.260 the relationship. They're, they're free to enjoy and be fulfilled in life if you can keep them

00:22:22.220 safe. But I think sometimes we have a misconception of that. We think, well, I'm not going to abuse

00:22:26.820 my kids or my wife. Like I'm not going to physically abuse them or yell at them. And while

00:22:31.540 that's an element of physical safety, that's not really what I'm talking about here. I'm talking

00:22:36.260 about emotional safety where they are free to express themselves. They are free to share. They

00:22:42.780 are free to speak with you openly and honestly. They are free to even be themselves because they

00:22:48.300 know you're not going to judge them or make them feel stupid for liking Pokemon or some other 0.61

00:22:53.620 obscure thing that they happen to be into. So your job is to be as predictable as possible, 0.70

00:23:01.460 and that goes across the spectrum. Even in your discipline, by the way,

00:23:05.860 that's it's actually safer if they know that hey if they step over this line here's the boundary

00:23:13.480 here's the discipline and you administer that consistently because then they know like there's

00:23:20.920 no guesswork in it the only time that a man should be unpredictable is as it relates to

00:23:28.200 his relationships, is if it's something good. So for example, hey, babe, I just want to let you

00:23:36.260 know, Friday night, none of us had plans. I got us reservations at the new steakhouse. Babysitter's

00:23:42.120 all set. Wear your dress. We're going out. Okay, that kind of unpredictability is good. That makes

00:23:47.700 you attractive. But anything else outside of those types of unpredictable moments should be avoided

00:23:54.180 at all costs. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Okay. What are we at? Sorry. I'm all over the place.

00:24:02.140 Cole Whitfield. I got sober four years ago and I'm proud of it, but I still feel like the guy

00:24:08.940 at the party who can't be trusted to have fun. How do you make peace with that? What do you mean

00:24:15.180 by that? Like can't have fun. Like people may not invite him because he doesn't drink. And so he's

00:24:21.360 not fun to be around? I mean, it could be, he could be a stick in the mud. Yeah. I mean, look,

00:24:27.420 the reality is, is there's a reason we call alcohol, you know, social lubricant. People get

00:24:33.180 fun, they get loose, they get a little sloppy. They sometimes say hilarious things and stumble

00:24:38.940 all over themselves and it can be fun, right? So if you're not doing that, then I guess if you use

00:24:48.140 that as a crutch. It's really easy to be that stick in the mud, so to speak. I wonder if you're

00:24:54.040 feeling this more than they are. That might be something like you don't feel as loose.

00:24:59.260 Maybe you don't feel like you're having as much fun. So what I would encourage you to do is to be

00:25:04.620 fun. Go do things you enjoy, right? If it's watching a football game, if it's getting a

00:25:10.880 bunch of guys for fight nights and doing a barbecue, if it's going on a hike, if it's

00:25:15.020 fixing a car, working on projects.

00:25:17.340 What is it that you really enjoy

00:25:18.840 and invite guys into your circle?

00:25:21.740 Because then you're going to be fun by default.

00:25:25.480 And yeah, that's what I would do.

00:25:27.200 I would just identify what would be fun to you.

00:25:31.980 Like what makes you fun?

00:25:33.180 What makes life enjoyable outside of having a drink

00:25:36.000 and needing that for social lubricant?

00:25:39.340 Yeah, yeah.

00:25:40.740 How often do you feel guys have to,

00:25:43.860 change their circle strictly because they're not drinking anymore do you think that's common

00:25:49.780 probably yes not not in my circle um just because of of who i'm around and i've been

00:25:58.680 very deliberate and intentional about spending time with the right people and and i always have

00:26:03.120 for the most part but yeah i based on what i know and what i've heard heard yeah quite often

00:26:11.300 you've got some friends that you really need to set some boundaries around and and maybe those

00:26:15.980 guys you just don't go drink with those guys like not that they can't be your friends but

00:26:19.460 maybe there's a boundary and you say to yourself like that's a guy i don't go drink with

00:26:23.400 and so but but we go golf together which you got to be careful of because plenty of people

00:26:28.240 golf while they're drinking too but um yeah i i had a friend one time and uh i i asked him i said

00:26:37.540 Hey, I don't even know how it got brought up. I said, uh, we were talking about fishing. I'm

00:26:43.080 like, do you drink when you fish? He's like, Oh no, no. I was like, Oh, he's like, I fish when I

00:26:49.360 drink. And I was like, Oh, got it. The drinking came first. Yeah, exactly. That's the priority.

00:26:59.880 um but no i kip i i would assume based on what i've heard that the the circle does need to

00:27:07.700 quite often yeah for sure yeah which makes that even harder probably you know to be sober

00:27:14.200 if you're with those people or if you're losing friendships about it well losing friendships are

00:27:20.900 like it makes that decision even harder right if if you have to switch up your your circle

00:27:25.260 as part of the behavior.

00:27:27.200 I mean, it's sad.

00:27:28.360 There's an element of sad to that.

00:27:29.840 I mean, I've changed circles before in my youth,

00:27:34.560 primarily when I was with a group that was super

00:27:38.520 just in a bad space, you know?

00:27:41.000 And I love those guys.

00:27:43.620 But it's like the, there's the Offspring song,

00:27:47.080 if you remember that band that was like this street.

00:27:50.180 And it was talked about like how everybody on that street

00:27:53.360 like just is in jail right and and they're all in bad places and uh i had that street in fact

00:28:01.700 that same group of friends like one's been in jail his entire life one's a paraplegic because

00:28:07.240 of a drug deal gone bad i mean just really bad group but i remember at one point going you know

00:28:14.420 and it was when i was a senior in high school i remember going like leaving a party in the middle

00:28:19.620 of the night going, this is goodbye to these guys. Like I'm not hanging out with these guys

00:28:25.780 anymore, you know? And it was sad, but it wasn't out of anger. It was just like, this doesn't,

00:28:31.040 this is not going to work for me and my future, you know, and luckily, right. To, to some extent.

00:28:36.680 So I, you know, one thing I was thinking of with the friend group thing, friend group thing is I

00:28:42.920 found personally, and for most of the men that I've talked with that if they're just forthright

00:28:48.580 with the guys in their circle about not drinking. 99.9% of the people you're spending time with,

00:28:55.640 although they may not not drink, they'll support you in your decision, but it's your responsibility

00:29:02.220 to let them know. So if you're going to go out with the guys, you don't have to hide it. That's

00:29:06.960 sometimes people hide it. They'll get like a, they'll get a non-alcoholic drink and pretend

00:29:12.060 they're drinking alcohol and they won't tell anybody. I don't know if it's embarrassment or

00:29:17.320 they want to be included and not ostracized from the group. There's probably a lot of human

00:29:20.560 psychology that goes behind that. I would do the opposite. I'd be like, Hey guys, yeah, I'll go out.

00:29:25.580 I'll go out to the game and hit some bar. If you can, right. Some of you, like, I probably wouldn't

00:29:30.760 want to do that personally, but if you felt inclined to do that, just tell the guys like,

00:29:35.340 Hey, I'm going to be designated driver tonight, guys. I'm not drinking. A lot of you guys know

00:29:38.680 I'm, I'm in my walk in sobriety and it would mean a lot to me if you don't ask me if I,

00:29:44.900 Like if I can have a drink or you don't like keep trying to give me drinks, it would be helpful for me if you guys could support me in that.

00:29:53.620 99.999% of your friends are like, yeah, brother, of course.

00:29:57.180 And you might even pick up somewhere like, yeah, I won't drink for 30 days with you.

00:30:00.700 I'll try that.

00:30:01.840 So just be honest about it.

00:30:03.520 Nobody cares.

00:30:04.040 Well, and that's, that's what I love about the IC because like, if, if you do have a circle of guys that are going to give you grief, you need to be upgrading your circle anyway.

00:30:17.040 Right?

00:30:17.640 Like, absolutely.

00:30:18.520 And I could say this with certainty. There is going to be almost zero men within the Iron Council that if you communicated what you were about and something's important to you and what you're striving for, that not only would they not give you grief, they're going to rally behind you and support you in the thing that you've declared.

00:30:39.240 so man if you don't have that circle get that circle obviously an option you know to get that

00:30:48.140 type of circle is is what we do in the iron council because we're we've more or less you've

00:30:53.620 created an environment where we can surround our size surround ourselves with like-minded men and

00:30:58.960 not like-minded in goals like-minded about showing up powerfully and when you're on the path of

00:31:05.680 progression, you support others on their path, even if it's different than your own, you know,

00:31:11.860 and, and there's, there's power in that momentum that we have. I mean, we had a guy today on the

00:31:17.220 call. I don't know if you were on this morning's call, but I was asking guys about their wins,

00:31:21.920 you know, what's going well, what do you have coming up this weekend? And one of our members

00:31:25.500 jumped in and he's like, Hey, I'm kind of in a valley right now. I don't, I don't have a win.

00:31:29.260 I feel a little bit stuck. You know, I I've got a few things going on here and there. And he's

00:31:34.160 like i'm not really looking for sympathy i just i'm kind of feeling it and we had a bunch of guys

00:31:39.060 raise their hand jump in pour into this guy i told him i said you know call me i'll call you this

00:31:44.180 afternoon we can talk about it but it's pretty sad that most men don't have have people like that

00:31:50.580 and then there's one other point that i made a couple days ago about this up like you said i

00:31:55.760 like the phrase you used upgrading your circle there guys need to understand this there's a

00:32:00.340 difference between people asking questions and questioning. So if you've got a group of friends

00:32:07.860 or somebody in like the Iron Council, for example, and they're asking you questions, that comes from

00:32:12.640 a position of curiosity and a desire to help and hold you accountable. Questioning is pessimistic.

00:32:18.820 It's like, why are you doing this? That's stupid. Like, I don't get it. It's a different line of, 1.00

00:32:24.460 right it's a it's more of a they're critiquing or interrogating than they are asking thoughtful

00:32:30.560 curious questions so be careful with that because just because somebody's asking you questions

00:32:35.560 doesn't mean they're questioning you they might actually really care about you and you need to

00:32:40.840 allow guys like that to pour into your life I mean Kip you're you're that for me you know I can bring

00:32:46.320 things to you you can bring things to me if I bring something up you might ask me some questions

00:32:50.660 that aren't like comfortable

00:32:52.020 that I don't really want to address,

00:32:55.060 but I know the intent is for you to serve me in some way.

00:32:59.240 And so I can deal with the discomfort

00:33:01.280 knowing that you're doing it for the right reasons

00:33:03.840 and it will help me in my life.

00:33:06.500 Yeah, yeah.

00:33:07.460 Learn more, orderman.com slash ironcouncil, right?

00:33:10.920 If you guys want to band with us there.

00:33:13.680 All right, Nathan Cross,

00:33:15.640 my best friend since college moved across the country

00:33:18.860 and we barely talk anymore,

00:33:21.880 it's male friendship supposed to fade like that

00:33:24.540 or did I let something die that I should have fought for?

00:33:30.800 So I wouldn't say supposed to fade like that.

00:33:34.140 Supposed to is kind of a weird choice of words there.

00:33:36.940 Yeah.

00:33:37.540 Right?

00:33:37.940 Now, is it going to be the same?

00:33:40.440 No, he lives across the country.

00:33:42.440 But there's nothing to keep you from maintaining contact,

00:33:45.740 texting, calls periodically, trips.

00:33:48.860 you know, plan trips. He comes out to you, you go out to him, you meet somewhere in the middle,

00:33:52.300 you get a group of guys together. Those are decisions that you can make. So supposed to

00:33:56.940 fade out like that? No, I don't, I don't think so. It's just a matter of what you want to do.

00:34:02.100 What was the second half of the question though, Kip?

00:34:05.760 Should I fought for it? Right. Oh, well, should again, should I have, what that means that 0.55

00:34:12.720 connotates is that you want to you wouldn't ask that question but is it over you know like oh i

00:34:21.380 should have fought what are you talking about like you didn't you didn't have a divorce yeah it's not

00:34:26.980 too late it's not like you're never gonna yeah like so should you fight for it if it's important

00:34:32.260 to you yeah you should reach out to him you should try to maintain the relationship you should try to

00:34:37.840 keep that contact you should have a schedule for reaching out to him and connecting and checking in

00:34:42.400 and seeing how he's doing and you should plan an annual trip or more frequently yeah of course

00:34:47.820 if it's meaningful to you i mean good friendships are hard to come by like there's a scene in in

00:34:54.200 tombstone and one of the guys is asking doc holiday why he's does things with wyatt earp

00:35:03.140 even though he doesn't have to that it just got done with a gunfight and and he asked him you

00:35:08.080 know, why are you here? You don't have to be here. And Doc Holliday says, Wyatt Earp is my friend.

00:35:14.360 And the guy says, hell, I got lots of friends. And Doc says, I don't. So if you have a friendship

00:35:22.320 with somebody that means something to you, then yeah, you need to invest in it. Absolutely.

00:35:29.120 Yeah. And it will die out if you don't probably invest in it, right?

00:35:33.220 Of course. Yeah.

00:35:34.600 Yeah. So put in the necessary effort.

00:35:35.760 By the way, we're horrible. Guys are horrible at this, so don't expect him to be any better.

00:35:41.420 If you really want to maintain the relationship, then the responsibility is on you. Now, he has

00:35:46.760 a part to play for sure, but it has to be you. Leaders go first. Men always go first. That means

00:35:52.260 you have to start and initiate. Yeah. Grant Holloway, I read Marcus Aurelius and the book

00:35:59.240 of Proverbs side-by-side most mornings. Is that a contradiction or is wisdom just wisdom wherever

00:36:06.740 it comes from? Yeah. Sometimes my kids, my 10-year-old will say something silly and stupid

00:36:14.260 and then I'll think about it for a minute. I'm like, yeah, actually that's kind of a good, 0.99

00:36:20.040 that's interesting. That's actually kind of a good point, but it wasn't in the Bible.

00:36:24.800 So does that make it blasphemous? Yes, it does.

00:36:27.980 I never understood the link or the challenge that some people have with believing in Christianity and also embracing concepts of stoicism.

00:36:42.300 I don't understand that.

00:36:43.980 Do you understand that?

00:36:45.420 I don't, but I remember, man, when I joined the Iron Council, I had a guy on my battle team, super religious guy, and I remember him reaching out to me.

00:36:54.480 he's like, how do you balance those two things when they're in conflict? I'm like, what? They're

00:37:00.420 in conflict? I'm like, I think it's principles are principles. They're expressed slightly

00:37:07.000 different in a different way. And I love something. I had a great conversation with my

00:37:13.620 son. It was a couple of years ago. He wasn't kind of fought against me from a religious perspective,

00:37:19.780 not fought, but kind of rejected organized religion as a teenager.

00:37:26.180 But for whatever reason, he just latched on to Stoicism really well.

00:37:30.880 And he reads everything there is to read around Stoicism.

00:37:35.400 And I remember we're on a drive, and he shares with me, he goes,

00:37:40.960 you know, Dad, what's really interesting is the more I study Stoicism,

00:37:44.580 I realize how much of a Stoic Jesus was.

00:37:49.780 Oh, for sure.

00:37:50.960 And I'm like, dude, I love that.

00:37:54.320 And then I said this to him, and this is kind of what would be my counsel to Grant here,

00:37:59.680 is I told him, I'm like, Ian, you know what I think God's gospel is?

00:38:04.320 You know what the gospel is?

00:38:06.400 Truth and principles, period.

00:38:10.640 Some of them you will get from the Bible.

00:38:12.900 Some of them you'll get through wisdom and experience.

00:38:15.980 Some of them you'll learn from your kids.

00:38:17.900 that's all part of the same group of, of God's gospel in my opinion. So, yeah, I, I would agree

00:38:27.100 with that. The only issue I would take with, with them, them, with two, with two ideas being in

00:38:33.800 conflict is if they actually compete with each other. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Are they really, if the

00:38:39.240 Bible said, right. So if the Bible says, you know, be a good and decent human being, and then you're

00:38:45.140 reading like the book of satan or something and it says you know despise all people think the worst

00:38:52.120 of them and treat them like garbage yeah that would be a conflict and i would hope that we

00:38:57.400 would naturally gravitate more towards biblical principles than satanic ones but i can't think of

00:39:03.680 a principle in stoicism i mean the whole concept of stoicism is to understand your emotions regulate

00:39:10.320 yourself well, know who you are, know what triggers you, respond properly. Yeah. I mean,

00:39:16.060 Jesus Christ, how many times has, uh, have we seen stories where he had every reason to blow up

00:39:22.520 and chastise and criticize and mock and be upset and be offended. I mean, even on the cross, he was

00:39:28.600 stoic. So I, um, like he's telling, he's, he's telling God, forgive them as he's nailed to the

00:39:36.560 cross. That seems like it's a pretty complimentary concept. So I would be careful of getting so

00:39:43.480 dogmatic in something that we can't explore other good things. Cause I think truth is everywhere to

00:39:49.240 your point. Yeah. Yeah. And the highest echelons of understanding is in the space of analyzing,

00:39:55.040 criticizing, you know what I mean? Disrupting, right? If you're just, you know, take it, if,

00:40:02.000 i'm taking something that i'm getting from you ryan as truth always then i've stunt my

00:40:07.940 understanding of what you're trying to teach me right so like you know figure it out for yourself

00:40:13.540 right and uh and disrupt it a little bit there's actually okay so i'm just trying to understand

00:40:19.660 because this question gets brought up so often i'm really trying i'm like just trying to rack

00:40:23.200 my brain here here's one thing i'd be careful of if if you're if you're a religious person let's

00:40:28.980 say you're a Christian and you're faithful and devout, there is a risk in starting to worship

00:40:37.060 other concepts, even if it is Stoicism or the people of those things, right? Like sometimes

00:40:45.600 even me, we almost idealize our founding fathers, for example, George Washington,

00:40:52.900 and we elevate him to this messiahic almost figure.

00:41:00.160 We do have to be careful of that.

00:41:02.060 And the reason I think we have to be careful of that

00:41:04.380 is because I call it the doctrine of popular culture

00:41:07.960 changes based on what's popular in culture.

00:41:13.860 So if I get so dogmatic about stoicism

00:41:17.760 or some other ideological movement,

00:41:20.900 I have to know that that thing is going to flex and bend as culture and circumstances and situations change, which might lead me down a path that is not principle-based versus the idea of the gospel is that it's the same yesterday, today, and forever, and it's unshakable.

00:41:41.180 It's built on these principles regardless of what is happening around us.

00:41:47.060 And that is a more principled, firm approach to live your life by.

00:41:52.880 So that's one thing I would say be careful of is making these ideologies spiritual in nature.

00:42:01.980 Yeah.

00:42:02.520 Because they're not.

00:42:03.500 I love that.

00:42:04.600 And those people will fail us, right?

00:42:07.640 Absolutely.

00:42:07.960 The minute you read a story about George Washington having slaves, now you're like, oh my gosh, right?

00:42:12.860 Like, now what?

00:42:14.760 I idolized this guy, and now how are you going to deal with that?

00:42:17.580 And that's the power of Christ, to be frank, is his perfection.

00:42:25.880 It gives a firm foundation where you can say, okay, I'm going to worship,

00:42:30.500 but he doesn't have the fault of men.

00:42:33.940 So that works out pretty well for us, right?

00:42:36.500 But if it's anybody else, you're going to get disappointed, right?

00:42:40.860 Yeah, I mean, you can put Christ on the pedestal.

00:42:43.000 in fact he's commanded us to so you're safe there good one good one to select all right silas

00:42:50.700 uh dude it's french man silas there you go um i got hurt in a hunting accident two years ago

00:42:59.580 and haven't been able to get back into the field since how do i stay a man of the outdoors when my

00:43:06.640 body won't cooperate anymore? Well, again, I don't know the extent of your injuries, but I'm going

00:43:14.320 to challenge your premise. Okay. There's a guy and I can't, I can't think of the name of his

00:43:20.340 organization that he's with, but his name is Sidney Smith. You can look him up. He's been on

00:43:24.080 the podcast. He's a good friend of mine. He had a medical condition where he ended up having his

00:43:29.060 two legs amputated and he has blades and he's an advent hunter. And he, I think he just got an elk

00:43:35.900 in the last week or two. I mean, this is a guy who has a reason to say, I can't go out into the field,

00:43:41.520 but he also works with an organization that brings people out on hunts. Um, and, and they're

00:43:49.300 in wheelchairs, nonverbal neurological disorders, and they're successfully hunting. Uh, we had a 0.99

00:43:56.540 guy on the podcast just a couple of weeks ago, um, Brent Oliver, who had a, a crippling debilitating

00:44:05.060 motorcycle injury where he, I mean, by all intents and purposes, he should be dead

00:44:11.460 and he hunts. He's out. He just texted me a couple of days ago. He's like, yeah, I'm out hunting.

00:44:18.380 We're going to go hunting. We're doing this and doing that. He's building outdoor walkways for

00:44:22.460 people to be able to explore and enjoy the outdoors. So I'm just going to challenge the

00:44:26.620 premise a little bit and tell you that there's probably a way, even though it won't be obviously

00:44:32.880 to the same degree that it was before.

00:44:34.760 And I think that's why it's so important

00:44:36.440 that we look at things as objectively as possible

00:44:39.340 and deal in reality.

00:44:40.960 The reality is not that you can't do it.

00:44:43.220 The reality is that it will be different.

00:44:45.460 And if you can come to terms with that,

00:44:47.760 then you might find a way to do something you love

00:44:50.440 and really enjoy it in spite of whatever injuries

00:44:53.940 you might be suffering from.

00:44:57.980 Beckett Rourke, my wife makes more money than me

00:45:01.460 and I still catch myself feeling less of a man for it, 1.00

00:45:05.300 how do you actually kill that voice

00:45:07.300 instead of just ignoring it?

00:45:11.340 Make more money.

00:45:14.460 Address the issue where the voice is.

00:45:17.620 Yeah.

00:45:18.700 I mean, that's part of it.

00:45:19.840 It is part of it.

00:45:22.180 This is interesting.

00:45:23.120 Yeah, I would feel the same way.

00:45:24.280 Yeah.

00:45:24.700 I would feel that way.

00:45:25.920 I think most men would.

00:45:27.700 Yeah.

00:45:28.560 I mean, but is the question,

00:45:30.200 let me, let me ask you this, Ryan, is the question really about money or is the power of his question

00:45:36.560 in, I have a voice, a narrative that I constantly repeat in my mind. And how do I kill that voice

00:45:44.440 instead of just ignoring that voice? And maybe the distinction between those two things.

00:45:49.680 Well, I think what it, what it really boils down to is a sense of worth. You, your worth in your,

00:45:55.480 in your mind, from your perspective feels diminished, whether it's true or not that your

00:46:01.360 wife can have that conversation. Maybe she, like whatever, right? Like, but, but you have a sense

00:46:08.040 of worth issue here. So the question is, why is your identity, your sense of worth wrapped up in

00:46:17.600 your paycheck. I actually think that that is a big part of being a man. So part of my sense of

00:46:27.980 worth is tied to my capability, to my ability to put food on our table and a roof over our head.

00:46:34.300 So I actually, I do think that, but I also think that my worth is, it goes beyond that. You know,

00:46:39.860 when I coach my kids sports teams or have difficult conversations with them, or I'm

00:46:45.560 answering questions, whether they're just silly and crazy questions or deep and thoughtful

00:46:49.880 questions, spending time together, being around friends, pouring into friends if they're

00:46:56.880 struggling, serving people, being available in the community, trying to be a good and

00:47:01.840 decent human being, giving back where I can. 0.93

00:47:04.460 There was this lady the other day, I walked out of the store and she, I don't know what 0.99

00:47:08.300 it was. 0.84

00:47:08.620 She was just sitting there and she just looked sad.

00:47:13.580 She was homeless.

00:47:14.260 She just looked sad.

00:47:15.020 And so I leaned down and I just started talking to her and she had a hard time communicating with me, but she said she was hungry.

00:47:22.900 She didn't ask me for anything. I was asking her. I'm like, are you thirsty? It's hot outside.

00:47:26.420 I'm like, are you thirsty? Are you hungry? She's like, yeah, a little.

00:47:29.740 I'm like, cool. So I gave her $10 and I said, you know, it's not much, but there's a gas station right around the corner.

00:47:35.680 You know, why don't you go over there and get some water and get a sandwich or something?

00:47:38.620 it's like that there's there's so many other things about life that that enhance your level

00:47:45.320 of worth to yourself and to the people around you than money so ask yourself why why is it so heavily

00:47:51.120 weighted towards that and can I focus on yeah sure increasing my ability to make money

00:47:56.540 and also developing my worth and other aspects of my life and then one other thing I would say here

00:48:03.440 too, is also, I'm going to say it's going to sound rude, but I'm not meaning it rude, but like,

00:48:09.860 how about a little gratitude for your wife? Awesome. Like, awesome. She makes great money

00:48:17.160 and helps provide. Now, look, that's not the arrangement that I would want in my family

00:48:23.180 dynamic. And I've been pretty vocal about that. But if that works for you and her, I think you

00:48:30.580 open a can of worms in some other areas, but if it works for your dynamic, cool. Good. Yeah. Yeah.

00:48:38.100 And, and I'd be honest with yourself, right? It's like, oh, my self-worth. Well, so are you

00:48:43.500 pulling your weight in other areas? Like, are you out of alignment? Really? Like, are you really

00:48:49.680 sitting back going, Hey, you know what? I'm not providing that much value. That might be true.

00:48:53.840 Yeah. So, and the way to fix that is not to be like, no, no, it's okay. You know, it's like,

00:49:00.120 no, it's actually to do something about it, right? Whether that's, well, I'm going to show up more

00:49:03.480 powerfully at home. I'm going to show up more powerfully in other areas of my life. I'm going

00:49:07.540 to look for other areas to contribute. Why? Not because it's a tit for tat, because you want to

00:49:12.020 be careful of that, but because I want to be a man of value. I want to contribute more than I do.

00:49:20.180 And let that be the driving factor, not the comparison. That comparison trap could be a

00:49:25.620 little bit dangerous in the circumstance, right? And almost create some competition between you

00:49:30.220 and her too. Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And some resentment from both of you, by the way. 0.99

00:49:35.980 Yeah. Yeah, totally. Let's, you know, there's another thing I was thinking of as you were

00:49:39.080 saying that. Yeah. I'll just real quick. And then we'll get to that last question to wrap up

00:49:42.400 whatever you need to do. But there's another way that you can contribute. You know, if she's making

00:49:48.220 the bulk of the income or, or, or more income than you are, then you need to be a rockstar

00:49:55.480 family CPA. Maybe, maybe you're the guy who's like, Hey, you know, she's making more than me.

00:50:03.520 I'm still bringing money to the table, but I'm going to make sure our budget is always locked

00:50:07.560 in. We're dialed in. I'm going to learn how to invest in real estate on the side. And I'm going

00:50:13.820 find us a home that we can either buy and flip or we can rent out or Airbnb. And that's another

00:50:20.900 way to contribute financially outside of just, because you can't just go flip a switch and make

00:50:26.740 more money than her now, but you can do a lot of other things regarding your finances that actually

00:50:31.740 generate additional revenue over time and provide in a financial way, kind of roundabout way to the

00:50:38.440 family household income. Yeah, that's spot on. All right, Wesley Thorncott, I'm going to

00:50:44.420 kind of reword his question a little bit so it's a little bit more applicable to

00:50:48.120 the listeners. He says, I've been in a men's group for a year now, and it's changed everything,

00:50:53.640 but my brother thinks it's a cult, right? Family members think it's a cult or some weird thing.

00:50:59.840 He says, how do you defend a brotherhood to people who never had it? And so the flip of

00:51:05.340 The question is, is what recommendations, Ryan, do you have maybe for the guys of the

00:51:09.060 Iron Council that may have heard this around the IC, right?

00:51:13.340 You meet with a bunch of weird guys online and what's this all about?

00:51:18.100 It seems cultish, right?

00:51:19.700 What's maybe the counsel for those guys?

00:51:21.680 Because, you know, obviously that's closer for us to relate to.

00:51:25.720 Yeah, for sure.

00:51:26.500 Well, you know, first of all, why do you feel the need to defend it?

00:51:30.600 Like if it's good for you and you've been doing it for a year, what do you need to defend?

00:51:34.020 about that you live a better life, that you're happier, that you're making more money, that

00:51:38.340 you're paying off debt, that your wife and you are in a better situation. I mean, I think the result

00:51:43.020 you said, you've been in a group for a year. I think the results speak for themselves. If it's a

00:51:47.640 cult, best cult ever. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I, I, I don't really feel the need to defend those types

00:51:55.380 of things, but you know what I would do instead of just defending is I would just ask questions,

00:52:01.720 right just just say hey like when you say it's a cult like what about it makes it seem like a cult

00:52:09.700 and and what elements of a cult would you obviously you know think are are bad or wrong

00:52:16.280 or when you think about your own life do you feel like everything's locked in and dialed in

00:52:22.060 and in your good or do you feel like there's gaps in your life and if there are gaps what

00:52:26.160 what do you think is missing? Let that person talk. Like if you really want to talk with your

00:52:31.900 brother about it, let him talk about what's going good and well, and not so well in his life.

00:52:36.220 Cause a lot of the times people like this will end up just talking themselves into the correct

00:52:40.600 behavior once they start to analyze it and review it thoughtfully and correctly. Yeah. Which is

00:52:46.320 powerful. I wouldn't sell it. I would just ask questions. Yeah. I love it. I love it. And you

00:52:53.720 On that note, we talked about this earlier, power of the Iron Council, if you need to upgrade your

00:52:59.900 circle or you want the fruits that come with being with like-minded men that are committed to growth

00:53:06.640 and progression in their lives, join us. Join us in the Iron Council. That's orderofman.com

00:53:11.340 slash ironcouncil to learn more. And if you're okay with a wrap-up, just a call-out, follow

00:53:17.240 Mr. Mickler on the socials on X and Instagram at Ryan Mickler. And maybe another call-out just

00:53:23.300 you know, if you're in a PC, I don't know about you, but like when I worked in corporate America

00:53:29.000 in a work setting, I'd never listened to a podcast during the day. I always watched YouTube videos of

00:53:34.520 a podcast instead because I was on my computer. So note that you have that option to listen to

00:53:40.460 the podcast that way on the YouTube channel. Awesome. Well, guys, great questions today.

00:53:46.900 As always, hopefully we gave you some things to consider, pushed back a little bit on some

00:53:50.280 of your questions, but also, you know, it's a discussion, right? We're not always going to see

00:53:54.680 things eye to eye and maybe you think, oh, that was good or that was not good. Let's continue the

00:53:59.020 discussion. You can do that in one of two different places on YouTube or Instagram primarily. Or like

00:54:04.920 you said, Kip, you can join us in the Iron Council and we can start hashing some of these out, these

00:54:08.640 things out on a deep and meaningful level. Guys, I appreciate you. Kip, I appreciate you as well.

00:54:13.120 And we will be back on Friday for our Friday Field Notes. Until then, guys, go out there,

00:54:18.340 take action and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the Order of Man

00:54:23.360 podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

00:54:28.460 We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - September 23, 2026

Bad promotions, Good Cults, and Drunk Friends ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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