Order of Man - Failure to Launch, Producing More Than You Consume, and Mentoring Young Men ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

00:00:00.260 No external validation, no support, no pouring into you.

00:00:06.580 It's just not possible.

00:00:08.220 And so you know when you go to see your dad every week,

00:00:11.140 you're doing it because that's what a good man or a good son does.

00:00:15.460 Hard, I imagine, but man, amazing.

00:00:19.320 Because to your point, you can look yourself in the mirror and say,

00:00:21.840 you know what, I did that even though there was no benefit to me.

00:00:24.980 But ironically, you'll receive a lot of benefit from it,

00:00:27.460 and you do when you serve other people.

00:00:30.000 alan what's up brother so great to see you you are a brand new face on the order of man

00:00:35.820 ask me anything so i do see that you're representing well with the executive polo

00:00:40.320 that you have on so i appreciate that that's right i appreciate you coming out with this

00:00:44.480 this is a nice fit idea yeah looks good on the golf course it was your idea we got to get some

00:00:50.420 different different colors different patterns but that was your idea so i figured the least we could

00:00:54.420 do is get one over to you and uh yeah it looks nice man great yeah yeah thank you it's good to

00:01:01.400 be here uh it's been a while yeah you've you've been wanting to to fill in for kip you got you

00:01:07.260 got big shoes to fill but i have no doubt you can do it man yeah i love that man now he's awesome

00:01:12.780 right like kip is amazing i think he's in i don't know where he is he's either in spain or portugal

00:01:18.240 i think right now with his oldest son uh he's getting married so i think he and his family are

00:01:23.860 gallivanting around the globe right now doing weddings and living it up on vacation so

00:01:30.820 you know here you are i'll take it yeah for sure well we got a lot of questions we got some good

00:01:38.560 questions i kind of did a little uh a little quick glance at some of the questions and i sent them

00:01:42.280 over to you as well um before we get into that we usually do a wholesome segment and i had made a

00:01:47.820 post the end of last week about the lindsey clancy trial which is obviously national news

00:01:55.440 um it's gained so much attention and it's really um it's really polarizing actually when you have

00:02:03.020 a woman who murdered her three children allegedly we'll say uh the fact that there's so many women

00:02:12.680 across the planet who are justifying it now look i think most of their argument is around postpartum

00:02:19.460 and i think that's a real thing i think that's a real phenomenon my ex-wife dealt with that which

00:02:25.340 with each of our children but she also didn't murder my children uh and i think there's millions

00:02:31.040 and millions of women around the planet who have dealt with postpartum who didn't kill their kids

00:02:37.260 who didn't strangle the life out of their kids so it's not really an issue as to whether or not

00:02:42.680 she did it people will say well she never admitted it and she pled not guilty yeah her own defense

00:02:49.000 this is the wild thing to me her own defense never said anything to the contrary basically

00:02:56.480 just pleading for insanity or not criminally responsible as how they look at it in the state

00:03:01.980 of massachusetts uh and then you have a legion of women who say well i think he did it well

00:03:07.400 if there was even an inkling of that don't you think the defense would have latched on to that 0.94

00:03:13.460 but they didn't they didn't latch on to that they latched on to the idea that she was insane at the

00:03:19.260 time so from a wholesome perspective uh there's one lone juror 11 to 1 one lone juror a man

00:03:29.400 who held out and that is a wholesome man right there because i cannot imagine these jurors were

00:03:37.320 not sequestered in fact two of the female jurors came back on deliberation day and they were wearing

00:03:45.280 pink now some people say that was coincidence i don't think it was i think they were standing

00:03:49.500 in solidarity with lindsey clancy supporters uh and this one man held out against not only the

00:03:56.720 The amount of naggery happening behind closed doors, I'm sure, but also the millions and millions of women and the legions of extreme feminists who wanted to excuse her for killing her three children. 0.95

00:04:11.160 That's the wholesome segment of the day. 0.96

00:04:12.680 I don't even know the guy's name.

00:04:13.760 I'd love to interview him, but.

00:04:15.580 That would be cool.

00:04:16.940 Good luck.

00:04:18.720 And, you know, there's – I don't think they talk about consequences.

00:04:23.860 I don't think she's trying really to get out of ownership of that she killed her kid.

00:04:29.020 She's trying to get out of the consequences of her actions.

00:04:31.620 Whether you do something or not, I don't think that's being questioned here.

00:04:36.800 And, yeah, you can call it a reason.

00:04:40.940 You can call it an excuse.

00:04:42.940 Whatever it is, it still carries consequences.

00:04:45.520 It's not, oh, I'm not guilty, so therefore there's no consequences to it.

00:04:49.520 No, society, you know, we have to have these boundaries.

00:04:53.860 Yeah, well, number one, I agree because, OK, let's just assume that we – that she was not convicted or acquitted of the charges.

00:05:07.680 I mean that opens up a whole can of worms.

00:05:11.000 Like there's a couple of thoughts that come to my mind with this.

00:05:13.580 So number one is – now, we could say that any criminal – anybody who murders somebody in cold blood, we would all say is insane, right?

00:05:24.040 Like everybody would say that.

00:05:26.280 So does this –

00:05:27.420 It's against society's norms.

00:05:29.080 Right.

00:05:29.360 Therefore, it's insane.

00:05:30.580 So now do we let everybody go just because they have a moment of criminal insanity or are there still consequences?

00:05:39.340 Um, I often tell my kids, like my, my kids will say, well, you know, dad, I didn't mean to do that. Like, I don't really care if you meant to do it. You did it. And here was the outcome. Now I'll take that into consideration. You weren't maliciously doing something, but the outcome was the same, regardless of whether or not you meant to do it.

00:06:02.800 so maybe you ought to think a little bit harder about the outcome or the consequences of your

00:06:08.440 behavior before you engage in the behavior i think we live in the society now where it's just

00:06:13.800 devoid and free of any consequences for any personal responsibility yeah can you imagine

00:06:19.600 a drunk driver hit somebody they didn't mean to hit somebody so should they not have consequences

00:06:25.060 they were the alcohol mentally incompetent at the time exactly so the alcohol thing is a very

00:06:33.080 interesting argument to this because we we would never i mean we we would say that lindsey clancy

00:06:40.540 i say we is society i think that the prevailing i don't even know if it's prevailing based on a

00:06:45.520 couple posts i've made but there is a a large contingency of people who say she's not guilty

00:06:50.780 by way of insanity or not criminally responsible because she was not in her right state of mind.

00:06:59.440 Well, I think we'd also agree that anybody who's belligerently drunk is not in the right

00:07:04.080 state of mind. And yet we don't say that they're incapable of knowing right from wrong. Even in

00:07:10.320 that moment, we would still try them, convict them rightfully slow. So for manslaughter at worst,

00:07:17.720 or excuse me at best because we believe that people have responsibility still like you have

00:07:25.720 to make choices yeah yeah i'll be very curious to see the finale for this and and like you said

00:07:35.020 you know what's the repercussions down the road for the legal system what are they going to do

00:07:38.760 with it yeah so i mean this this lone juror whoever he is props to you wholesome on an

00:07:45.320 Unwholesome note that her attorney, her defense attorney, Kevin Reddington, is a horrible sack of debris.

00:07:55.440 The fact that he is intimidating a juror, and mind you, these jurors are not sequestered.

00:08:04.700 So when he goes and he makes public statements about who this juror is, and he mentioned it was a man, so that whittles it down from 12 to 3.

00:08:15.320 And he starts talking about why this person is not following the law, why this person should be removed, why this person is is not worthy of being on on the jury.

00:08:26.120 And he's doing that publicly while the jury is not sequestered.

00:08:31.260 What that means is that all jurors are hearing this.

00:08:34.660 That guy ought to be barred. 0.99

00:08:36.660 He's a he's a horrible, horrible attorney. 1.00

00:08:39.040 At best, he's engaged in questionable ethical practices, and at worst, he's just a horrible human being. 0.99

00:08:49.140 And he's working to manipulate, to intimidate a jury, a juror specifically.

00:08:59.200 He's whittled it down to one or three, I should say.

00:09:02.760 And I think that guy is – I would love nothing more than to see him barred and never practice law again for his mafia-like tactics with regards to intimidating jurors.

00:09:18.340 Yeah, like I said, very curious to see where it goes down the road.

00:09:24.360 What are the consequences even for him?

00:09:26.200 And it's going to make some changes to our legal system for sure.

00:09:30.360 No doubt. No doubt.

00:09:31.360 all right so soapbox stepping down from let's get into some questions today man all right

00:09:37.240 um hopefully i get the pronunciations right here i know there's a history there uh so the first one

00:09:44.440 comes from grady pemberton and grady asks my 24 year old son moved back in six months ago after

00:09:51.820 a breakup and job loss and i can't tell if i'm helping him get back on his feet or just letting

00:09:57.040 Coast. How do you know the difference between supporting a grown kid and enabling him?

00:10:05.480 I'm trying to think if I would do that. I would do that. I would do that. If my 24-year-old son

00:10:12.040 went through a breakup or a job loss or was struggling with some way to transition from

00:10:17.760 college into adulthood, I would do that. So I commend you for that first, but I would have

00:10:28.980 some rules in place. And I think that's the difference. If it's indefinite, if it's like,

00:10:34.940 yeah, bud, you can go move in here. And just like, whenever you get your back on your feet,

00:10:38.900 like that's, that's the line right there. But if I said to my son, Hey bud, you got three months

00:10:44.820 and in the next three months i want to see you looking for a job every day

00:10:50.740 i want to see you doing healthy things that are going to get you over this breakup

00:10:55.640 and i want you and or i want you to work on personal development and as long as you're

00:11:03.820 doing those things you have three months and on the 91st day you're out of here i'll help you

00:11:11.840 find an apartment i'll help you hell i'll help you put a deposit down on your apartment as long

00:11:18.520 as you're doing the things then i will help you do that thing but the problem is i think with a

00:11:23.040 lot of men is we just enable where there's no rules there's no boundaries there's no

00:11:27.400 timetables and i think that's where it becomes a problem so i don't think it's a bad deal if

00:11:35.620 you have structure around it that you're not enabling and crippling him but that you're

00:11:41.300 actually promoting healthy practices. But I also have to be really honest. I wonder if you've even

00:11:47.460 done this for the past 24 years. Because when I moved out, so when I turned 18, see, I turned 18

00:11:57.460 in April. And then later that month, or the beginning of May, I went on my senior trip.

00:12:04.300 And we were in California for about a week. And I came back. And the next day, I was packing all

00:12:10.460 my stuff up and my mom came into my bedroom she's like what are you doing like i'm packing my things

00:12:15.340 she's like what do you mean you're packing your things where are you going i'm like oh i got a

00:12:19.480 apartment in cedar city which is a neighboring town about 20 miles south of me and she's like

00:12:26.260 wait you got an apartment i'm like yeah she's like how'd you even do that i'm like i don't know i

00:12:31.700 just reached out to him and said i'm looking for an apartment with four buddies and we put a thousand

00:12:37.040 dollars down or whatever it was and then they just gave us a lease agreement and we signed

00:12:41.340 it for six months i don't know give them money they give you apartment yeah he's like i didn't

00:12:47.460 even know you knew how to do that i'm like yeah well i didn't know how to do it until i did it

00:12:51.300 either but the point that i'm making is i moved out when i was 18 i've never moved back in with

00:12:59.040 my parents never i'm not saying there wouldn't be times where i might or might need to

00:13:06.080 but damn if i do that that's failure to me as a son so i will say i moved back in twice with my

00:13:15.460 family once uh during college and then once again after divorce um and we didn't have those 0.96

00:13:22.860 boundaries uh i was still i was getting after it on my own thank god but yeah i probably could

00:13:27.180 have lived there forever my brother my sister lots of people actually moved in with my parents

00:13:31.560 it from time to time they're a pretty open door um we have a guy in my battle team going through

00:13:36.280 this right now with his uh mature adult son who's uh struggling to get on his own struggling to

00:13:42.460 motivate to get on his own and i think that's the big difference i don't think any good parent is

00:13:47.720 going to hold uh you know is going to tell their kid the first time they need a place to say no

00:13:53.600 you can't come here i don't think that's the issue the issue really is how do you know if

00:13:58.040 you're moving the line and you said it best there with, you know, you have to put those boundaries

00:14:03.020 in place when they're moving in, set up the guidelines that you will have a job. You know,

00:14:08.740 you will be working to get your own place. You will be saving money. You won't be sitting in

00:14:13.020 the basement playing video games, whatever the rules you need to make, that's going to help your

00:14:17.980 kid go. And then, um, to Grady's point, how do you, how can you tell the difference as you go

00:14:24.100 is you're measuring the progress you're looking to see you know three weeks from now are they in

00:14:29.880 a better place where they were maybe not necessarily ready to move out but are they in a

00:14:34.920 better place and ready to to roll on um and then you know you actually described really well what

00:14:43.140 moving out looks like and i think that's important too because a lot of parents will set those

00:14:48.380 boundaries but then what happens when that three-month time limit comes are you just gonna

00:14:54.840 put their stuff out on the curb and let them go like you were clear i'm gonna help them get an

00:14:59.440 apartment you know put the deposit down get them out you should have a picture of what it actually

00:15:04.960 looks like if they hit that time limit because otherwise you're painting an empty promise and

00:15:10.420 that leads to future taking advantage of you i think that's a solid point because i don't think

00:15:17.440 any, I don't think any good parent would just like kick their kids out and put all their

00:15:22.500 furniture and clothes on the lawn. Like I would agree, but if you don't do anything between day

00:15:30.020 zero and day 90, then that's the consequence that you're left with. And you wouldn't do that. And so

00:15:34.820 what happens is now you're going to let them stick around for another 90 days. Right? So I would even

00:15:41.080 go as far as saying hey here here's what i want bud you got 90 days here okay i want you to present

00:15:48.300 a plan to me before you move in by the way because you're 18 you're an adult before you move in i

00:15:54.060 want you to present to me a weekly plan on checkpoints that you're going to do for the

00:15:59.220 next 12 weeks so on week one i want you to have a job i don't care if it's at mcdonald's flipping

00:16:05.860 burgers i don't actually care where it is you might say well you know i have a i have a college

00:16:10.520 degree i don't care about your college degree what i care about is you actually going out

00:16:14.280 if i if order of man went under under today i'm not above going to mcdonald's to flip burgers

00:16:21.020 part-time because that's my responsibility i have a mortgage i have kids i have obligations

00:16:26.660 financial obligations i'm not above that and i would buy that burger it would be delicious it'd

00:16:32.780 be the best mcdonald's burger you ever had it's got a little trumpian right there it'd be delicious

00:16:38.880 it'd be the best burger wonderful it'd be incredible um but uh yeah i would i would

00:16:48.000 have my son or daughter say okay like give me a 12-week plan and we're gonna sit down every

00:16:53.820 tuesday night and we're gonna have we're gonna have checkpoints and if you're missing it there's

00:17:00.600 gonna be consequences and if you're on track i'm gonna help you promote and see if we can do it

00:17:06.880 even faster. But we can't enable them. We got to empower them. That's how you do it.

00:17:12.160 That's it. Empower. I like it. All right. Ozzy Renfro is going to throw a quick question out.

00:17:18.820 If you had to define a real man in one sentence for a room full of teenage boys, what would it be?

00:17:26.580 Easy. A man produces more than he consumes. 0.69

00:17:30.060 Thank you. Your words came right to my mind when I thought of this. 1.00

00:17:34.680 It's as simple as that.

00:17:36.220 I mean, it's the reason why 100 years ago we had 12, 13, 14-year-old kids who lost their father and they would step up and they'd literally leave school to step up and go work in the factories to be able to provide income for the family.

00:17:50.680 That's a man.

00:17:52.220 It has nothing to do with age, a little to do with age, but maturity, I should say.

00:17:56.520 um i know 14 year old boys who i would consider more manly than some 40 year olds i know

00:18:04.520 because they produce more than they consume it's as simple as that and i will add a little on to it

00:18:11.360 just to put another point to it that a real man can stand on his own too like you can produce a

00:18:17.880 whole lot and still live in your mom's basement and you know not cook a meal you need to be able to

00:18:24.040 So be sovereign, stand alone, be able to take care of yourself in addition to producing more than you consume.

00:18:36.900 Yeah, I mean – no, I think – I would agree with that.

00:18:40.040 I think that's a valuable component of it.

00:18:45.940 Yeah, I mean it – but again, this goes back to even our previous question about your son moving back home at 24.

00:18:52.780 now so now he's not acting like a man i'm not talking about his morality or sense of worth as

00:18:59.420 a human being but i'm talking about his contribution to society as a man and when he moves back home

00:19:06.120 he's not acting manly that's not manly behavior now i realize there's conditions there's reasons

00:19:13.360 there's excuses i realize that but if we strip everything else away he's acting more like a boy

00:19:19.140 than he is a man when he does that and again there might be moments in your life where you need to do

00:19:23.420 that where i might be struggling personally and i need other people to pour into me and i can't

00:19:27.300 pour into them it's acceptable if there's growth and progress to your point um but yeah i mean we

00:19:36.600 ought to be teaching our children how to produce yeah you know like my oldest son he he graduated

00:19:43.500 high school earlier this year and he's going to play college lacrosse at southern utah university

00:19:49.120 and he went and had his first training session at the gym with the guys that the weightlifting

00:19:53.760 gym. And then I did some box lacrosse and he messaged me and I said, how did it go? And he's

00:19:59.180 like, oh, it was good. It was hard. And I said, yeah, you're, you're operating with the top 10%

00:20:04.400 of high school players now. Like they just separated 90% of the weaker ones and just

00:20:10.360 drew 10% in and that's you. So it's going to be harder. I said, do you feel like you can hang?

00:20:16.040 he's like oh yeah i can hang it's like i was a little rusty my timing was a little off but but

00:20:22.160 i can definitely hang like yeah you're right you know what that kid does every single day that kid

00:20:26.820 throws at least two to three hundred wall balls which if you don't know what a wall ball is when

00:20:32.860 it comes to lacrosse it's literally taking your stick and throwing a hundred this way at the wall

00:20:38.060 a hundred that way at the wall a hundred behind your back a hundred this way and if he ever misses

00:20:44.180 a ball, meaning misses a catch on any of those, he starts over. So he's out there every day. He's

00:20:53.980 lifting weights. He's doing wall balls. Sometimes I'll message him like, what are you doing? He's

00:20:58.420 like, I'm just at the field throwing lacrosse. I'm like, with who? He's like, just me. He drives

00:21:03.180 around with a portable net that you can break down. It's called a rage cage. I bought it for

00:21:09.080 him for i think his birthday or something and he drives around in his car with extra lacrosse sticks

00:21:14.840 and with his rage cage and he'll just go pull over into a park or at the high school and he'll

00:21:21.380 throw it up and he'll go shoot a bunch of balls just for fun that's somebody who's producing more

00:21:26.200 than he consumes he's putting the effort and the work in it's no surprise to me that he's having

00:21:32.300 success early in his life because he's acting like a man yeah yeah that's spot on to it you

00:21:39.680 know when i was uh 18 i i wanted to become a man i felt what do i do to become a man so i joined a

00:21:46.060 fire department not not because it was like i always had this dream of being a fireman like

00:21:51.960 every little boy i did it because i thought that would make me a real man um it didn't it's not it

00:21:59.020 It's not what you do.

00:22:01.180 It's what you produce, like you're saying.

00:22:05.360 It doesn't matter what the career is.

00:22:07.340 You can be an accountant and you can be a real man.

00:22:10.540 It doesn't have to look pretty on camera kind of thing.

00:22:15.540 Do you think, Alan, there's any danger in – I've wrestled with this idea and I don't have the answer to it.

00:22:20.600 That's why I'm asking you.

00:22:21.640 But do you think there's any danger in measuring your sense of worth by your production over your consumption?

00:22:29.020 um i think but you have to look at production as one piece of your sense of worth um and also

00:22:41.620 not just one piece of production you know that's one thing i learned with firefighting is there

00:22:47.480 was plenty of really good life-saving firemen that were horrible husbands you know or and some

00:22:54.900 of them you see these overweight firemen and they're not taking care of their health so i

00:22:59.240 think you have to look at the overall scope to do it right i think that's valid i i often pastors

00:23:06.280 come to mind you know you've got you've got a pastor who's 100 pounds overweight i'm like i'm

00:23:11.820 sorry like i can't i can't take you seriously you're talking to me about overcoming sin and

00:23:19.460 temptation and you're engaged in one of the you know the great sins which is gluttony so

00:23:26.460 I mean you have no discipline I'm sorry I can't take whatever you're talking about from the

00:23:31.780 spiritual perspective seriously because you're not living it yourself yeah I do find it's really

00:23:39.080 hard to find a man that hits on every single quadrant you know at that high hard level

00:23:46.900 um and and i don't think it's that we're not capable i think it's that we're not taught

00:23:53.180 um and we don't have role models necessarily for each of the different areas of life

00:23:59.960 i mean but i also don't think they need to be hitting it at at a 10 at every quadrant i think

00:24:08.380 they need to be progressing yes that's the most important thing to me like if i if i'm a five on

00:24:15.760 one aspect of my life I was I would still follow a person like that if tomorrow they're a five and a

00:24:22.140 half right and next year they're a seven and the next year they're an eight like I would still

00:24:28.300 follow a person like that it's it's the ones who are a five and a half and a five and a half and

00:24:35.700 a five and a half and a five and a half like all right bro like fix yourself first and then I will

00:24:42.180 follow you but i can't do it right now i agree wholeheartedly agree yeah all right what's next

00:24:48.800 all right yeah we segwayed off ozzy's question a little um next one is from bruce callahan

00:24:53.580 uh this one hit home for me a little bit uh i moved my dad into memory care last month

00:24:59.360 he looked at me like a stranger the last time i visited and i drove home and sat in my driveway

00:25:04.760 for an hour before i could go inside nobody prepared me for grieving someone who's still

00:25:09.920 alive how do you show up for a parent who doesn't know you anymore

00:25:14.060 this is a hard one for me my uh my brother is going to go ahead go ahead i'd like to hear what

00:25:23.640 i i haven't experienced this so go ahead and explain yeah it's it's it's definitely a hard

00:25:28.800 one to answer if you haven't i never had until three four years ago my brother had a massive

00:25:34.100 stroke he's three years older than me uh and that's his position now for the rest of his life

00:25:39.960 and i'm his primary caretaker um and it's tough going to visit him because he doesn't whether or

00:25:46.700 not he knows who you are from day to day varies so i i totally get where you're coming from with

00:25:51.660 this bruce um and i had to reflect on this question a good bit you know it does fall back to that

00:25:58.820 each time you go visit him you don't know what you're gonna get you don't know if he is

00:26:03.980 if he is getting who you are, if he knows you're his son or not.

00:26:09.620 But what is great is you can share an experience with him each and every time.

00:26:17.020 You know, you could joke and say you could share the same experience each and every time.

00:26:20.800 But you still get to share moments with him.

00:26:23.720 Whether he knows who you are or not, you're bringing joy to his life

00:26:27.480 and he can bring memories to your life.

00:26:30.200 um the hardest thing for you would be if it's you feel it's too hard for you to go now

00:26:37.840 and so you stop and now you have a lifetime of regret when he passes that you didn't get to

00:26:44.480 help him live out his life um you didn't fulfill your role as a son to him uh because i do believe

00:26:52.760 we have obligations to our parents just as as parents we have obligations to our kids

00:26:57.140 uh and for our parents that's in their end years mostly um and you have a relationship with your

00:27:03.460 god that you have to be able to maintain too that you know did you treat him as a person

00:27:08.480 who put so much into treating you uh as as you should back to him um it's tough i feel for you

00:27:17.260 for sure yeah i mean again i i have the luxury of not having to deal with this i do remember my

00:27:26.720 great grandmother who when i was little i must have been 12 or 13 years old maybe even younger

00:27:32.640 probably younger actually maybe 9 10 and i had long hair like down on my shoulders

00:27:36.900 and i went into a room because my mom wanted to see her and she looked she looked like a skeleton

00:27:44.520 man like she i don't even know how else to explain it she just looked like a skeleton

00:27:48.560 no muscle no definition just skin on bone and i was so scared i remember being scared i was like

00:27:55.540 I got scared. And she thought I was a girl because she just associated my long hair with

00:28:03.580 like the long hair of a girl. And I don't remember being upset about it, but I do remember asking my

00:28:08.600 mom about it. And she's like, she's not in her right mind. She doesn't know. Like she doesn't

00:28:12.680 understand. There's nothing to be offended about. And then my grandparents, my grandfather

00:28:16.540 suffered from dementia. My grandmother suffered briefly from Alzheimer's. And I actually think

00:28:22.520 without I don't I'm not trying to be insensitive again I haven't really experienced this like

00:28:27.380 somebody who's really really close to me um my ex-wife's grandmother dealt with it a little bit

00:28:32.740 and sometimes she acknowledged and sometimes she didn't but I think there's a couple things that

00:28:37.360 that I would suggest again from a luxury of not having to deal with this really too specifically

00:28:41.940 number one this is an amazing opportunity for you as a man this is an amazing opportunity let me

00:28:49.800 tell you why because there is no reward in it for you there is no there's literally zero depending

00:29:00.040 on the severity of your father there is zero benefit to you there's no validation uh there's

00:29:09.940 there's no there's no support like there there's nothing like he he can't give you anything

00:29:19.020 And what that means, the reason I think this is such a powerful moment for you as a man, is now your motives are 100% pure.

00:29:31.800 Am I going to be a good son because that's what a good son would do?

00:29:37.820 Am I going to be a good man because that's what a good man does?

00:29:42.080 no external validation no support no pouring into you it's just not possible and so you know when

00:29:52.260 you go to see your dad every week you're doing it because that's what a good man or a good son

00:29:57.120 does hard i imagine but man amazing because to your point you can look yourself in the mirror

00:30:05.580 and say you know what i did that even though there was no benefit to me but ironically you'll receive

00:30:10.780 a lot of benefit from it and you do when you serve other people make me want to go visit my brother

00:30:16.240 now it's but it's true it's spot on uh and it's tough and it look this could go on for years

00:30:25.620 you know i don't know what his health status is for me i could have 20 years with my brother yet

00:30:30.640 um so bruce just like you reached out here there are you know it's you reached out to a support

00:30:38.080 group you've fortunately got somebody that has a little knowledge there are support groups usually

00:30:44.400 within the facilities and then there's groups like the iron council where you'll hit up other

00:30:49.200 men that are going through other similar things that you know can be really good to uh be able

00:30:54.740 to have those conversations because it's going to be an ongoing struggle this isn't something

00:30:58.700 you're going to solve one day in your head and you know two months from now you're going to start

00:31:03.600 questioning it again. Yeah. I mean, I just think there's something powerful also. Tell me what

00:31:10.240 you think about this, Alan, the idea of expectations, right? So we, we typically go

00:31:14.980 into situations in our lives with a handful of expectations. You know, I might go into a job

00:31:19.520 interview, for example, with the expectation that I'm going to get the job or, or an employer

00:31:24.640 review with the expectation that I'm going to be acknowledged and potentially receive a promotion

00:31:30.320 or a bonus um you you go into a romantic situation where it's like hey we had a great night tonight

00:31:37.900 i took you out we we did dinner we had a good time and the expectation is i'm gonna get get

00:31:43.700 lucky tonight i'm gonna have some intimacy with my wife i have just found that the more expectations

00:31:49.420 that i have in my life the least the less happy i am yeah when i go in with look i have okay so

00:31:59.380 I think this is a good point to explain the difference between external expectations and

00:32:05.060 internal standards. I'm going to show up as fully as I can. That's an internal standard. That's the

00:32:13.060 way that I choose to show up. I have faith, not an expectation, but I have faith that things will

00:32:20.500 work out if I do that because they have. That's just what I believe. That's etched into my DNA.

00:32:26.960 but I don't have expectations about the way, for example, Alan being the first time on our AMA,

00:32:33.840 the way that you're going to show up. I have hopes that you will show up fully and you are.

00:32:38.640 I have my own personal standard that I will show up fully, but it just makes life better

00:32:47.080 when I have zero expectations, unless we've explicitly talked about it, right? So if I said,

00:32:52.520 hey, Alan, you know, show up at 10 o'clock for an hour and a half and you show up at 1030 for 15 minutes.

00:32:59.560 Well, we explicitly talked about what those expectations are.

00:33:02.960 You probably won't get an invite back on the show.

00:33:05.480 Right. That's a boundary.

00:33:07.340 Right. And that's communicated, right?

00:33:09.560 So I guess it might be uncommunicated expectations would be something that I would really focus on trying to let go of.

00:33:19.040 That's good.

00:33:19.720 and that's where that's where he's suffering is the zero expectations that he can have with his dad

00:33:27.640 so and it's yeah it's a good growth point for the rest of your life

00:33:31.220 i mean you don't really have expectations for your toddler children right i think you do i

00:33:37.880 think that's why we get frustrated with them because we i mean we say it and when they don't

00:33:44.120 do it we get frustrated i know but if your kid if your two-year-old throws a temper tantrum in

00:33:50.500 the grocery store while you're shopping you're like yeah like i'm embarrassed i don't want to

00:33:54.560 do this but also yeah that tracks for a two-year-old i got it yeah and so we don't like

00:34:02.260 we do get frustrated but we're not gonna like beat them because of it i hope not i mean some

00:34:08.120 people might like you're a decent person you wouldn't you just be like yeah he's been a two-year-old

00:34:13.700 he needs to learn some boundaries yeah but like we but we don't have maybe our standard maybe our

00:34:20.680 standard is lowered our expectations are lowered because we realize okay this is a little child

00:34:25.720 incapable of coherent thought all the time right and maybe it's the same for your father like this

00:34:31.460 is my father he's like a child i mean that's what that's the ironic thing about life is you start as

00:34:36.120 this little innocent creature incapable of making your own choices or surviving on your own and then

00:34:41.740 we build you over time and this capable solid man who can raise a family and have a job and

00:34:49.420 overcome hardship and then as you get older now you're like more like a child and you need help

00:34:56.480 and you can't get around as fast and you might be annoying to people around you because you're

00:35:01.900 driving too slow or you're taking too long to get on the plane or whatever it is but we if you're a

00:35:09.460 decent human being like no that's like i expect that i get that we start in diapers we end in

00:35:16.480 diapers exactly i hope i'm never back in diapers again all right what's next all right um deshaun

00:35:23.840 pruitt my ex-wife's new husband coaches my daughter's soccer team now buys her gifts i

00:35:30.720 can't afford and she started asking to spend more weekends over there i know jealousy is the wrong

00:35:37.720 instinct but i don't know what the right one is how does a man co-parent against a guy who's 1.00

00:35:43.400 genuinely good to his kid i mean good yeah what's the alternative he's an asshole he cheats on your 0.99

00:35:53.600 ex he treats them horribly like what is the alternative uh there are some things money can't 0.99

00:36:02.060 buy and that's the love of a son or daughter and so she might really like this guy she might really

00:36:09.000 like the gifts was it was it a daughter or son i didn't i didn't pick up on that this is a daughter

00:36:13.360 daughter she might really like the guy he might buy her gifts that you can't afford um he might

00:36:18.820 you know say the right thing he might coach her team well you know what good good i mean she's

00:36:26.260 going to be around all sorts of men in her life i would rather her be around good men even if it's

00:36:32.920 at the expense of my relationship with her but i don't think it has to be so sound like it is

00:36:38.120 no i'm like he might coach the team well go be his assistant coach like i know and i know in

00:36:46.500 communities like this i live in a pretty small town and i'm sure it's the same everywhere like

00:36:52.020 finding men who will actually step up to coach kids sports teams is damn near

00:36:56.220 impossible. So call a guy up and say, Hey bro, do you need help being an assistant

00:37:00.600 coach? I'd love to do this together. We, we had an event years ago.

00:37:04.760 I don't know if it's the event that you were, Oh no, it was a,

00:37:07.140 it was a legacy event. So I don't, I don't think you were there.

00:37:09.560 It was in Maine. And this guy calls me up and he's like, Hey Ryan,

00:37:13.360 like I have a unique circumstance.

00:37:15.920 I wanted to talk to you about it and see if it's a possibility.

00:37:18.200 So the legacy event is a father son event that we do.

00:37:20.980 And this guy who called me was the biological father of his son that he wanted to bring out.

00:37:26.160 And I said, yeah, cool.

00:37:26.960 No problem.

00:37:27.460 What's like, what's the issue?

00:37:29.660 And he's like, well, my son's stepfather wants to come too.

00:37:35.180 And so we want to come out as biological father, stepfather and bring this one son.

00:37:41.400 And my knee jerk reaction is, and I told him this, I said, I don't want any shenanigans.

00:37:45.500 I don't want you guys like competing.

00:37:48.260 I don't want you guys fighting or making it weird for your son because it's going to ruin it for everybody else.

00:37:54.140 I don't want any of that.

00:37:56.160 And he's like, no, no, no, no, no.

00:37:57.420 We actually have a really good relationship.

00:38:01.340 Like, I like him.

00:38:02.720 He likes me.

00:38:03.580 We all spend time together.

00:38:05.780 We are working on behalf of our son.

00:38:08.960 And there's no weirdness.

00:38:10.540 And he came out and his son's stepfather came out.

00:38:14.640 They were amazing.

00:38:15.500 like i watched him eat dinner together with their son interact have conversations you know i had

00:38:23.800 something similar with my oldest son when he got into powerlifting when we were out there in maine

00:38:27.720 and he started talking about his coach coach more this coach more that oh coach more said this oh

00:38:32.700 coach more i'm like god who is this coach more guy and it was so annoying and obnoxious and i was a

00:38:38.660 little jealous at first. And then I realized, Oh, coach Moore is a good dude. He cares about my son

00:38:45.880 and other kids. Like he pours into him in a way that I might not be able to do myself. So why am

00:38:52.380 I fighting with this guy, even if it's in my head? And I decided instead of fighting with this guy,

00:38:58.700 just to embrace the fact that my son had another man to look up to. It was beautiful. So amazing.

00:39:06.320 and I never undermined that relationship after when my son said coach more of this or you know

00:39:13.620 coach more that I'd be like well he's your coach you probably ought to listen to him about what

00:39:17.660 he's saying if I thought it was the right path and it was great yeah so I think we can choose

00:39:24.000 to be contentious or we can choose to embrace it and it sounds like she might have another

00:39:29.140 pretty decent dude in her life awesome and I think that's important is to look at it from

00:39:34.340 your kid's angle it's way more important in this case that she has three role models in her life

00:39:41.500 to go by um it's not a competition with him and how wonderful is it for her that she has she can

00:39:48.760 have a great relationship with him and a great relationship with you it's not about who can

00:39:54.160 spend more time with the other or who can buy nicer gifts it's that you're showing up as the

00:39:59.060 kind of man that she needs to see in her life. And so is this other guy. And you may be showing

00:40:04.980 up totally differently. Ryan and I are two totally different people. We raise our kids

00:40:09.500 two totally different ways. Neither one is bad. Let her see both. Let her see multiple.

00:40:14.200 And you know what, Deshaun? You may meet a girl one day that you marry. And now she has

00:40:19.940 a fourth person in her life that's hopefully a role model. You know, there's societies

00:40:24.260 in Africa and all and back in the old days

00:40:27.620 where truly the village raised the kids. 0.99

00:40:30.640 The parents weren't as important.

00:40:32.560 To have the wide variety of role models

00:40:35.140 I think is more important.

00:40:37.200 And your daughter, you know,

00:40:39.940 she may have both of you walk down the aisle with her one day.

00:40:43.880 Or, you know, she can love you both.

00:40:45.960 There's no limit as to how many people a person can love.

00:40:49.640 so i yeah let let go of the competition with the other guy i think the whole question

00:40:56.420 kind of had that underlying um you know well i get it you don't want to be jealous

00:41:01.880 but there's still an underlying and i think that's a natural man man competition kind of thing to be

00:41:07.280 in yeah yeah i mean i i i think i think you're absolutely right there's there's a tinge of of

00:41:14.660 jealousy and maybe frustration and from a tactical level i could give you a couple tactical examples

00:41:20.640 that i would employ number one is when she talks about him and she probably will because

00:41:25.700 her coach and they're pretty involved it sounds like you don't need to undermine it because if

00:41:31.580 you undermine him again unless it's something unhealthy but let's just assume that it's healthy

00:41:36.940 if you undermine him what what alan if i if i put like if we were face to face and i pushed you

00:41:45.740 like i just pushed i shoved you what would you do i think i'd turn around and have words with you

00:41:51.640 yeah you'd push back on me right physically verbally you'd push back right right if i pulled

00:41:58.240 you i pulled you towards me what would you do now i'm really gonna question i don't know i might get

00:42:06.240 a little more physical with that i'd probably pull away like if you're trying to pull me into

00:42:10.780 you i'm gonna like pull away like i'm gonna like create some distance and the same thing is true

00:42:17.040 of what we're talking about now if you start to push to a man that she respects and it sounds

00:42:24.760 like she does she's going to push back yes you're going to alienate if you pull away

00:42:32.700 because you're like well he loves she loves him more than me and i'm just gonna pull away i'm

00:42:37.560 gonna ghost she's gonna pull back so you need to maintain your frame as a man when she says hey my

00:42:45.960 coach rob or whatever uh said to do this like well he's your coach like you should probably listen to

00:42:53.140 him why don't you and i go practice that together this afternoon there you go i'm not pushing i'm

00:42:59.220 not pulling i'm just supporting when he buys her a nice gift and she's like hey he bought me a pony

00:43:04.980 for my 13th birthday you're like that's amazing you've always wanted to ride is there equipment

00:43:10.520 that you need because maybe i can get you a pair of riding pants i like there's things that you can

00:43:18.420 do it's not about the money you spend it's about the attentiveness it's about the fact that you

00:43:23.440 care about her you're not going to push you're not going to pull you're going to maintain your

00:43:27.200 frame as a man and you're going to support her as your daughter and as her father and

00:43:33.100 it's going to be awesome it's good i promise it's good yeah i like it ryan this next question

00:43:43.020 good for both of us i think uh rafferty solano i built a contracting business from nothing over

00:43:49.500 20 years and my son wants no part of it he's got his own path and i respect that but i always

00:43:56.460 pictured handing him the keys how do i let go of a legacy plan my kid never signed up for

00:44:01.960 your kids are younger still so you don't know where they're going yet yeah well like get over

00:44:10.700 it i don't know you know there's a lot of things you can do in business maybe there's an exit

00:44:16.380 strategy maybe you sell it to somebody else and you use that to lean more into what he's doing

00:44:20.440 if that sounds something like you're interested in.

00:44:24.580 Yeah, that's all.

00:44:26.160 That's good.

00:44:26.900 Like we've been talking a lot about our kids.

00:44:29.700 Actually, that's probably an underlying theme

00:44:31.200 for this podcast today is children and legacies

00:44:33.740 and how do we raise them correctly.

00:44:35.840 I want my kids to find their own path.

00:44:38.340 If it happens to align with mine, great.

00:44:40.300 If it happens to be completely opposite, great.

00:44:42.700 As long as it's legal, moral, and ethical,

00:44:44.620 I'm good with it.

00:44:46.260 I'm fine.

00:44:46.940 And I will support you in that move.

00:44:49.740 But sometimes we think that our legacy is what we hand down business wise, right? The empire that you're trying to build. It might not be that it might just be that you've built this incredible business that gives you the freedom and flexibility to be there as often as you can.

00:45:05.220 So I think about that with my oldest. Like I said, he's playing college lacrosse. He's going to be traveling from California to Phoenix to Montana. I've built a life around this business that I can go do that. I can go travel. I can follow his team around if I want.

00:45:21.660 Now, I probably won't be able to make every game, but isn't that just as meaningful when it comes to legacy?

00:45:27.880 Like he'll always remember, oh, you know, there was this game in Missoula and my dad flew up for two days to watch me play against Missoula.

00:45:37.820 Well, the business is what created that for me.

00:45:39.940 The business created that opportunity for me to go do that.

00:45:43.600 So was the business wasted because he doesn't want to be in the business, at least right now?

00:45:47.920 No, it created opportunities that I could actually be part of his life.

00:45:53.460 And the same is true.

00:45:54.940 You know, I took my daughter for her birthday last week to lunch.

00:45:59.700 We went to this little Italian, excuse me, Indian cuisine place that she really likes.

00:46:05.060 I don't have to ask somebody if I can go take my daughter to lunch and get permission from some big brother to tell me, hey, I'm going to take an hour off to take my daughter to lunch.

00:46:14.740 That's not a thing I have to ask for.

00:46:17.280 I just go do it.

00:46:19.500 If I want to take off at two o'clock in the afternoon because my son's struggling or he wants my second son, he's learning how to drive.

00:46:26.360 He was like, hey, dad, can I take the Tacoma?

00:46:28.960 We can go learn to drive.

00:46:29.980 I'm like, yeah.

00:46:30.380 And he's like, how about two o'clock?

00:46:31.620 I'm like, two o'clock is perfect.

00:46:33.600 I don't know if that asks somebody else to do that. 1.00

00:46:36.420 I just go do that shit. 1.00

00:46:37.420 and so there's a lot of benefits that come with your business other than the fact that maybe he 1.00

00:46:43.520 doesn't want to own the business that have created opportunities for you to connect more deeply with

00:46:47.700 him yeah you know i have a business that's 18 years old now my son has no interest in taking

00:46:55.120 it over just not his thing at all and uh and i'm glad because your legacy isn't about stuff

00:47:01.580 It's not about what you physically may hand somebody, and I'm kind of glad to not hand him while it may make money.

00:47:10.360 It's also a burden.

00:47:12.040 I would rather sell my business, be able to fly him and I on vacations racing cars, buy a lake house where families can get together and enjoy the holidays together as a group, use it for that freedom.

00:47:28.380 and, hey, instead of just giving him a business,

00:47:31.760 maybe you'll be able to give him a lot of money instead

00:47:34.680 so he can live a more comfortable life.

00:47:37.480 But it's really more about the memories.

00:47:39.700 Legacy is about the memories you leave with somebody

00:47:42.340 and the lessons you leave with somebody.

00:47:45.080 That's what your legacy is.

00:47:46.500 That's what's going to last not just through the kids

00:47:49.000 but through the grandkids and, you know, generations to come.

00:47:53.760 So be proud that you built the business,

00:47:56.560 but you built the business.

00:47:58.380 he didn't build the business let him build his own business that's even prouder for you as a

00:48:03.020 papa is for him to go off and do his own thing and then you leave behind the memories that you

00:48:09.000 can together yeah i mean like to illustrate your point you know my oldest is like hey dad i need

00:48:16.340 to buy some gear and equipment and things for lacrosse i'm like well how much is it he's like

00:48:20.540 it's 1500 bucks which is not insignificant it's 1500 dollars um it's all subjective but it's like

00:48:26.820 no, that's like, that's, that's a check. Like that's $1,500. And I said, I'll, I'll give you

00:48:32.700 $1,500. If you do these things and I'll bankroll that I'll bankroll your, your dream, your desires,

00:48:40.400 if you do this. And he's obligated to keep me in the loop. He's obligated to tell me how practice

00:48:45.440 goes. He's obligated to give me the schedules when they arise. He's obligated to, you know,

00:48:49.240 just be engaged with me about how the team is doing. That's the deal I made. Well, that wouldn't

00:48:54.180 have happened if i didn't create this business even if and he it's not the case but even if he

00:48:58.900 didn't want anything to do with it it's this business that created that opportunity yeah

00:49:05.280 yeah and that's where the legacy will come from is you guys getting to do your stuff together

00:49:11.500 exactly yeah exactly let's keep going with the kids questions since we're on this lots today

00:49:19.340 Yeah.

00:49:20.580 Mika Vandenberg.

00:49:22.500 My wife and I have been trying to have kids for three years now,

00:49:25.720 and every time someone asks when we're finally starting a family,

00:49:31.440 I have to decide whether to lie or explain something that isn't really theirs to know.

00:49:36.900 How does a man carry that kind of quiet grief without it hollowing him out?

00:49:44.760 I think it would depend on who it was.

00:49:47.400 like if it was somebody close in my circle i think there's three categories of answers okay

00:49:55.300 so bear with me on this so the first is uh just dismissal that's one category like oh yeah we're

00:50:04.340 trying and it's kind of like dismissive right for 90 of the general public that may ask you

00:50:09.720 and you may not even owe them an answer at all right um so that's one category is just dismissive

00:50:16.960 So another category might be trying to think about the order I want to say this in a little bit of truth, but kind of filtered a little like, oh, you know, we've been trying, but it's been a challenge for us.

00:50:36.420 if i said to a friend like hey um when are you guys going to start a family and my friend said

00:50:45.040 oh we're really trying but it's been a bit of a challenge for us

00:50:47.840 either i would take the hint because we're not that close to be like oh okay like that's cool

00:50:55.280 like i hope it all works out well for you or i would probe a little deeper which leads into

00:51:00.120 the third category which is just radical honesty which is just is you saying hey you know what

00:51:06.400 we've been trying for years and we found out through the doctor that i'm infertile or my wife

00:51:15.080 or whatever like whatever the situation is and that we actually can't have children so we're

00:51:19.160 exploring alternative options right now those are the three categories dismissive a little bit of

00:51:27.640 truth filtered and radical honesty and then you just have to decide who gets access to what answer

00:51:33.180 because if i tell for example a brother rad i think a brother would if you have a good

00:51:42.240 relationship would probably fall under radical honesty category and you said hey you know like

00:51:47.260 you've asked me that a couple of times and it's a little hard when you ask me because we've been

00:51:51.700 trying and we're infertile and we're exploring other options he's never going to ask you that

00:51:58.100 insensitively again because you were honest with them about it if it's somebody who's kind of an

00:52:04.260 acquaintance you know and you don't want to like blow them off or dismiss them completely it's like

00:52:08.120 hey we're trying but we're having some struggles so you know i'll let you know if we find out that

00:52:13.380 we have a little bundle of joy on the way that shuts that down they're like got it got it understood

00:52:21.060 and then some people just don't deserve an answer it's like oh yeah like ah we're we're

00:52:28.240 practicing a lot hasn't happened yet and that's dismissive right and that's fun it's dismissive

00:52:33.280 and it's like you don't get access to that but that's how i would look at it three categories

00:52:38.940 three places that each person falls into debate based on your relationship with them and that's

00:52:44.620 that's how i would handle it personally yeah i'd be i'm a little concerned for me good

00:52:49.100 You know, the kind of quiet grief, that's his words, you're grieving.

00:52:57.520 You're not done trying.

00:52:58.980 The process isn't over.

00:53:00.920 You're like saying like this is a done deal, like you're not going to have kids.

00:53:05.660 As long as you're trying, you should not be grieving.

00:53:09.500 You may be struggling.

00:53:11.100 You're going through a difficult procedure.

00:53:13.340 And look, if you do have kids, that's going to make it even more rewarding for you.

00:53:17.560 And there's adoption and other options.

00:53:19.960 Having a kid, it's always an option to have a kid.

00:53:24.640 It just can get harder and harder.

00:53:27.240 But I would seriously look at internally the struggles you're having.

00:53:34.320 That, I think, answers more of why you're having a hard time

00:53:38.260 answering these people that are asking you,

00:53:41.340 is because you're struggling with the answer yourself.

00:53:47.560 Yeah, I think – well, I take a little bit of issue with something that you said.

00:53:51.220 You said you should not be grieving.

00:53:53.400 I mean did you have this experience if you are willing to answer that question?

00:53:57.840 I did not, but again, because the process isn't over, it sounds like they're still trying.

00:54:03.740 I know, but – and I've never had this experience, so I'm trying to put myself in his shoes, and I can't fully, but I can attempt to.

00:54:15.500 I think it's okay to feel bad about that like I think it's okay to be frustrated or bothered like

00:54:22.240 yes so I would just shy away from the you shouldn't be grieving conversation no grieve

00:54:29.740 like it's it's fun you can and then use that as fuel to figure out options maybe maybe it's as

00:54:36.720 simple as a diet chain I'm not trying to make light of this at all but maybe it's simple

00:54:41.220 nutrition and diet or hormonal changes okay so that's one thing maybe it's that you just can't

00:54:47.620 and so now we need to look at in vitro or again i'm not in this position so it's easy for me to

00:54:55.100 say but i would lean more towards adoption than in vitro and some of these other options

00:54:59.180 again i i'm not in that boat so i've had the luxury of not having to understand that

00:55:05.680 on a personal level. But there's millions and millions of babies that need loving mothers and

00:55:12.200 fathers. So I would choose that alternative first, I think, if I were in your shoes.

00:55:19.200 But that goes to your point, like you are trying, you are actively doing something about it. It's

00:55:23.720 not like you're sitting on your hands hoping something will work out. So use the grief,

00:55:28.060 use the sadness, use the sorrow, but also to go back to something we said previously,

00:55:32.100 realistic expectations i think there's i think there's a room for hope and optimism in life

00:55:39.340 and and faith and i also think there's room for just being reasonable so we can accept reality

00:55:45.980 for what it is and come up with alternative solutions that will drive us to what we

00:55:50.420 ultimately want which is a family i want a family i i love my family and i have people that i would

00:55:58.300 consider family who are not biologically related to me and I would still call them family and I

00:56:02.900 would treat them as such. And that's the ultimate goal. So how do you create that in the best way

00:56:08.080 possible for you and your bride? All right. I'm going to throw another question. I know we're

00:56:16.620 getting close on time, but maybe this question may segue into the war room a little bit also.

00:56:22.000 So, again, sticking with our child mode, or our, yeah, children mode.

00:56:27.800 From Sterling Aldoua, H-A-L-D-O-U-S.

00:56:33.860 He got you.

00:56:34.480 He did.

00:56:35.860 Saved the last one there.

00:56:37.580 I'm going to go with Aldoua, although it's Little Rock, Arkansas.

00:56:41.420 A guy at my church asked me to mentor his teenage son, and I said yes before I really thought it through.

00:56:48.680 Now I'm guessing whether I've got any business guiding another man's kid when I still feel like I'm figuring out my own life.

00:56:56.660 What actually qualifies a man to mentor?

00:57:00.560 The fact that he asked you to do it.

00:57:03.820 The fact that you're a man?

00:57:06.220 No, not even that.

00:57:07.300 The fact that he asked you to do it.

00:57:09.140 I know plenty of men that I would consider men that I probably wouldn't want to mentor my children.

00:57:15.400 He asked you to do it.

00:57:16.520 This is the whole thing with imposter syndrome, Alan.

00:57:19.220 People say this all the time.

00:57:20.080 Like, I don't feel like – I had a friend who just got his brown belt in jiu-jitsu, and he's like, I don't feel like I'm a brown belt.

00:57:25.240 I'm like, it's not really up for you to decide.

00:57:27.760 Like somebody – your sensei, your instructor, your professor, whatever word you want to use said you're a brown belt.

00:57:34.140 It's not subject to interpretation by you.

00:57:37.440 He's the one that gets to determine that.

00:57:39.660 So in the absence of faith or belief, we need to rely on the belief and faith of other people because he sees something in you.

00:57:48.740 The only thing that I would say to this is just talk with a guy, right?

00:57:53.840 So, Alan, if you said, hey, Ryan, will you mentor my son?

00:57:56.940 And I said yes.

00:57:57.960 And then two days later, I'm like, oh, boy, what does this all entail?

00:58:01.260 Well, then I'm going to call you.

00:58:03.540 And I'm going to say or have a visit with you, stop by your house or go out to grab a bite to eat or something.

00:58:08.560 and I'm gonna say, hey, Alan, you know, you asked me to mentor your son. I'm a little confused by

00:58:13.120 that. I think I'm still trying to figure out life. And obviously, there's something you see in me,

00:58:17.620 what is it that you're hoping to accomplish? What kind of conversations do you want me to have with

00:58:23.020 him? Why me? What does he need the most help with? How do you see this dynamic working?

00:58:31.680 Are there concerns that you have? Like just ask really curious questions. And then you'll start

00:58:36.620 to get to the root of what he saw in you you know you might say to me in that case alan you might say

00:58:41.000 oh well you're really good at business and i would like you to talk with him about how to run a

00:58:46.380 successful business and money etc etc i'm like cool got it i can do that yeah and maybe it has

00:58:52.760 nothing to do with teaching him moral principles you're just wanting me to teach him about money

00:58:56.340 well you don't know unless you start having those conversations yeah that's true you know he said

00:59:02.320 he doesn't feel like he's worthy of being a mentor because he's still figuring his own life out

00:59:06.580 man the last person i want to mentor my kid is somebody who thinks they know it all

00:59:11.300 thinks they've got it all figured out let the kid know it's okay not to have it figured out

00:59:17.320 one day we're all gonna wake up and we're gonna be in a brown box and we can tap on the roof of

00:59:22.860 that brown box and you know what you're not gonna wind up saying oh now i get it all no we don't we

00:59:30.280 don't ever we don't ever all have it figured out so um yeah no to that point of he saw something in

00:59:40.180 you and that's what he wants you to to help his son learn um and just be okay that you don't know

00:59:48.900 everything and let let his son know it's okay to learn as you go be the best rookie that you can

00:59:55.000 right now, not the best expert that you can. Yeah, I think that last statement you made is

01:00:01.920 really powerful. Sometimes when we're put in the power or the position of power, influence,

01:00:06.720 credibility, authority, we believe as men like, oh, I've been dubbed, I've been knighted, right?

01:00:12.560 And now I have to have everything figured out. And if I don't, then it's going to undermine my

01:00:17.380 position of influence, authority and credibility. When actually, in my own experience, and watching

01:00:23.540 other leaders, the opposite is really true. When I hear a leader say, you know, actually,

01:00:30.580 interesting. I don't really know the answer to that question, but let me figure it out and get

01:00:35.680 back with you. There was a really powerful clip that I watched a couple of weeks ago,

01:00:41.200 and I've seen it before. There was a young journalist who was interviewing Elon Musk,

01:00:48.140 and he was on the tarmac of his, you know, rocket propulsion systems or whatever.

01:00:53.760 And he was talking about, I don't even know, he's talking about like boosters or I don't

01:00:57.940 even know what it was.

01:00:59.640 And the journalist said, you know, why doesn't this same technology apply to the entire rocket

01:01:06.740 system?

01:01:07.180 And Elon Musk is like, oh, it's like, wait, now that you're saying that, I think actually

01:01:17.380 we could apply it in this way, in this way, in that way. And then the kid or the young man,

01:01:22.860 I should say, interviewed him, you know, maybe six months, eight months, a year later.

01:01:26.980 And Elon had implemented that technology in his rocket. And he had a really cool conversation.

01:01:33.080 He's like, yeah, I just got thinking about that in real time. From the clip that I saw,

01:01:37.140 what Elon failed to mention is the fact that it was that kid's idea, or at least it was that question

01:01:42.720 that got him to think about something he hadn't considered before and i thought that was a really

01:01:49.100 interesting display of humility on elon musk part he could have very easily said you don't know what 0.99

01:01:53.620 you're talking about that doesn't work that's stupid but he didn't he said oh this kid who 0.98

01:02:00.160 knows less than me about rocket propulsion asking me this question challenging me respectfully in 0.99

01:02:05.580 this way gets me thinking about something different and that's a really good exercise

01:02:11.080 and humility from probably one of the most intelligent people on the planet and successful

01:02:15.820 obviously so you can be humble and still be a mentor yeah you have to be yeah

01:02:23.060 you want to keep going uh i got time for one more one more all right uh let's go with

01:02:32.220 uh here we go here's a quick one from deacon pharaoh what's the actual cost of being always

01:02:41.600 available for your business that most men don't see coming until it's too late

01:02:45.680 the actual cost say it say it one more time the actual cost of being always available for your

01:02:54.020 business that most men don't see coming until it's too late oh you can't work in your business

01:03:00.060 oh that's a good one i mean you you can't work i should say on your business okay right like if

01:03:08.960 i'm constantly inundated and i don't have free time for myself because people you know like one

01:03:15.000 one thing i often hear is hey can i pick your brain and i i actually i watched an instagram

01:03:22.400 reel the other day a guy was talking about this he says you know when people say can i pick your

01:03:26.340 brain you know what i tell them i'm like curious what this guy's gonna say he says

01:03:29.260 yeah go ahead and pick a payment option i was like that's pretty good actually i like that

01:03:36.780 i mean that's the reality it's like no you can't pick my brain because i'm doing things

01:03:43.180 the reason you want to pick my brain is because i'm doing things you're interested in the more

01:03:49.080 time i spend where people are picking my brain the less time i get to do the thing that you're

01:03:53.160 interested in picking my brain about so you have to have boundaries in place so that you yes i want

01:04:01.780 to be available and you know some of the things that i've done in the recently is when people say

01:04:07.920 can i pick your brain my question is about what and and they'll say well you know just about

01:04:14.880 business i'm like you're gonna have to be more specific than that that's a big category

01:04:19.760 like well i just want a mentor of business i'm like cool we have the executive council here's

01:04:25.200 where you can go or if they say well i have a question about this one specific topic oh cool

01:04:32.200 here's a great pod listen to this podcast and once you listen to it let me know what you think

01:04:36.380 so i can still help those people because i don't want to be the kind of guy who's like

01:04:41.200 f off or too big or too better than other people because i've felt that way before

01:04:46.420 I don't want to be that guy. But if I have and I do, I have a library of email responses and they're automatic responses when a person has a specific question about business or running a men's organization or whatever.

01:04:58.900 There's a half a dozen topics that most people ask me about. I have emails that have a library of responses.

01:05:06.660 So, Alan, if you came to me and you're like, hey, I'm trying to start a men's group, you know, what would you do differently if you started over again? Email to send.

01:05:16.420 And that email, too, is usually says, hey, take a look at these resources, and then once you go through them, email me back.

01:05:24.120 You know how many people have emailed me back?

01:05:25.740 What percentage, would you guess?

01:05:29.140 Very few, I imagine.

01:05:31.060 Maybe like 2% to 3%.

01:05:32.960 Yeah.

01:05:35.880 And then those are the people that I'm willing to pour a little more time into.

01:05:39.160 So if a guy messages me back and he's like, hey, I listened to that podcast and I got that resource and I had one additional question and it was X, Y, and Z, I'm probably going to invest a little more time in that person.

01:05:51.940 Because I know they're serious about it.

01:05:54.940 Because what most people will do is they'll just take – I'm trying to say this and still be like without a level of pretentiousness, but they'll take my generosity and slap me in the face with it.

01:06:09.160 and a slap in the face is not doing anything with it.

01:06:13.820 That, to me, is a slap in the face.

01:06:15.700 If I take time out of my day to go grab a coffee so you can pick my brain,

01:06:22.400 and you don't do anything with it, you just said,

01:06:26.180 my time is not important to you.

01:06:28.620 And I'm sorry, I don't know everybody,

01:06:31.200 but you're going to need to qualify that a little bit.

01:06:33.500 Now, if you come up to me and you're like, hey, Ryan,

01:06:35.360 I want to have a conversation.

01:06:36.360 Like I was at Origin Immersion Camp a couple of weeks ago and there was a couple of guys, one guy in particular that was going through a divorce.

01:06:46.240 He's like, Ryan, I really followed along when you were going through your divorce and I listened to some of your podcasts.

01:06:51.780 They've been really helpful.

01:06:53.440 Man, we had a great conversation.

01:06:55.720 I saw him sitting down.

01:06:56.780 I sat by him at dinner.

01:06:58.260 We had an additional conversation.

01:07:01.060 I'll pour in as much as I can, but I don't want to be misused, abused or mistreated.

01:07:05.900 And so I have to be protective of my time because, again, if you let yourself get pulled in that way, you won't be able to do the business at all, and that's not acceptable to me.

01:07:17.500 Yeah, I think when I read this, the cost of always being available, the two quick, easy, obvious ones were, well, your relationships with your wife and kids suffer and your health.

01:07:32.340 You know, so many fat businessmen out there.

01:07:34.840 It's like, why are you putting all this work into your business 0.98

01:07:36.860 if you're going to have a heart attack at 60?

01:07:38.840 What's the point?

01:07:40.280 But I like what you said about being in your business too much and not on it.

01:07:45.560 You know, if you're available too much for your employees,

01:07:48.560 you don't give them the opportunity to learn and let them fail.

01:07:53.500 It's hard to let an employee fail because it costs you money.

01:07:56.460 But sometimes you've got to let them fail a little and then bail them out

01:07:59.540 and, you know, hope it's not too customer-facing.

01:08:03.740 And then there's sometimes when you're too available for your business

01:08:07.300 and too in it, you're not picking your head up

01:08:09.960 and looking far ahead enough.

01:08:12.740 I recently started working with a group of businessmen

01:08:15.900 that they have another zero behind their business than I do,

01:08:19.540 some of them two zeros behind theirs.

01:08:21.800 And I've always prided myself with not working in my business.

01:08:26.040 I'm always working on it.

01:08:27.240 I'm on top.

01:08:28.220 I'm at 50,000 feet.

01:08:30.560 And when these guys ask me what I do on a daily with my business,

01:08:33.600 the first thing they said is, oh, okay,

01:08:36.080 we've got to help get you from working in your business to on it.

01:08:40.240 I was like, what?

01:08:41.320 No, wait, no, that's what I try not to do.

01:08:44.220 But what I realized is as your business grows,

01:08:47.260 what you were doing that was on the business

01:08:50.840 should now be somebody else doing and becomes in the business.

01:08:54.420 so your role constantly changes as you grow and if you're always available you know in the trenches

01:09:02.600 with the guys you're not going to see that those changes need to happen um so i think that's a real

01:09:08.580 real important part of uh keeping your business growing or if you're always available maybe there

01:09:14.140 won't be a business one there one day to be available for yeah i remember i remember when i

01:09:20.220 offloaded my first task in this podcast editing i didn't want to do that i mean i could do it

01:09:26.440 it's not like rocket science like it it does require a little bit of attention to detail and

01:09:34.180 a little awareness of what clips to extract and things like that i mean but i was capable of doing

01:09:40.620 it because i'm not an idiot but it isn't where i wanted to be like i'm i don't want to call myself

01:09:47.120 a podcast editor that's not something i'm interested in now there's other people but you

01:09:53.300 know chad robeson for example and even he has a team now and his team is doing it like he's not

01:09:58.240 even doing it anymore his team is doing it so this is the natural progression so that we can all

01:10:03.340 develop and advance in our businesses it's not what can i be doing it's what should i be doing

01:10:08.860 and what should other people right like i think that's the important part is like who are the

01:10:14.760 right people as cubby might say the right people in the right places and if you can find those

01:10:19.720 individuals sky's the limit yeah awesome cool how'd you feel your first yeah i'm good how'd

01:10:30.660 you feel about your first ask me anything today i feel like it was a really good rookie at bat

01:10:35.500 you did good that way yeah you did well i'm no kid to run it back yeah i'll definitely listen

01:10:41.380 back and learn from it yeah well we'll run it back i'm sure there'll be other opportunities so

01:10:45.860 why don't you bring it home tell the guys where to connect and then also um i know you were going

01:10:50.360 to mention the war room as well sure so um uh if you want to connect with me the best way

01:10:56.340 is in the uh the iron council where i uh i'm constantly in ryan's group the order of man's

01:11:03.360 group iron council which uh i don't remember the url to join off and order of man.com slash iron

01:11:11.180 council there you go how easy is that i'm a dumb person so the easier it is for me that works if

01:11:18.680 you're ever looking for anything that we do just type in order of man.com slash whatever so if it's 0.60

01:11:25.200 the iron council order man.com slash iron council if it's the war room order of man.com slash war

01:11:31.340 room because i need it simple otherwise i'll forget it yeah and the war room is another great

01:11:36.500 new thing that iron council is doing or ryan's doing or order a man's doing the whole it kind

01:11:42.480 of it's a community um but uh the next one is going to be on the 16th i believe it is

01:11:48.600 at 8 p.m eastern uh and you're going to get to see a lot more kip on that um

01:11:54.400 kip is going to be talking on the topic of

01:11:58.320 that was a segue to you ryan sorry no i just felt like just holding your feet to the fire a

01:12:06.480 little bit now we're going to be talking on the subject of rescuer persecutor and victim it's

01:12:12.400 actually called the cartman triangle uh it's a psychological phenomenon that men fall into

01:12:18.000 with regards to leadership and how to move away from the rescuer the persecutor and the victim

01:12:22.760 into a more stable i would call it the anchor i'm not sure what kip calls it but a more stable

01:12:29.000 healthy way of leading your kids your wife your colleagues your co-workers your neighbors your

01:12:34.340 community so i'm very excited about it september 16th at 8 p.m eastern order of man.com slash

01:12:40.640 war room all one word to our all one word i love it i love that topic that's not one you hear

01:12:46.700 spoken of much in the men's space it's just oh lead go lead go be in charge and but you know

01:12:52.540 how to lead that's a big question and uh you know order a man does it well you do it well kip does

01:12:57.720 it well the the how to be a leader is so it's not it's not innate we're not born with it

01:13:03.420 yeah no i agree with that we can learn it we can develop it alan i appreciate you man thanks for

01:13:08.800 joining me today guys appreciate the great questions obviously a lot of topics on fatherhood

01:13:13.200 and leading our children well hopefully alan and i gave you some answers to consider and ponder on

01:13:20.240 and implement hopefully and uh we'll be back on friday we're gonna be talking about on friday i've

01:13:27.000 got a couple of topics misogyny and misandry we're gonna talk about the differences between the two

01:13:33.000 which I'm kind of excited to dig into a little bit because we don't talk about anything other

01:13:37.880 than misogyny mostly. So I'll give you the other side as well. Check it out. Guys, until then,

01:13:43.100 go out there, take action and become a man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the

01:13:48.920 Order of Man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant

01:13:53.940 to be. We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

01:14:03.000 You

Order of Man - September 09, 2026

Failure to Launch, Producing More Than You Consume, and Mentoring Young Men ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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