Order of Man - Identity After Job Loss, Raising a Daughter, and Overcoming Anger Issues ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

00:00:00.000 We as men are wild. The concept is that we are wild by nature. We take risks. We want to explore.

00:00:06.460 We want to dig. We want to build. We want to fight. We want to kill. And we as men don't have

00:00:11.600 that. We're docile. All of that's been stripped away from the time we're little. Think about the

00:00:16.880 first rules that you have when you go to kindergarten. Okay, everybody sit down, be

00:00:21.960 quiet, color within the lines. And if you get quiet, we all put our fingers up or whatever.

00:00:25.880 And then this means to, you know, and so we have these female teachers teaching us to 0.99

00:00:32.320 imprison the wild man within us. 0.78

00:00:34.500 And then we have no outlet to go do it.

00:00:38.600 Kip, what's up, man?

00:00:39.580 A little bit of a different change of scenery for me.

00:00:42.580 I'm out here in Maine still as we record this at the jujitsu camp.

00:00:46.980 So it's been it's been a good week, man.

00:00:49.400 Wholesome segment starts with jujitsu.

00:00:50.960 It's been a long time since I actually put like any real level of jujitsu into my life.

00:00:57.180 So it's been good.

00:00:58.640 And I realized that it's not like riding a bike because the timing is an issue.

00:01:05.120 Like I still know the principles, but the timing and the conditioning is the problem.

00:01:12.540 Totally.

00:01:13.480 Well, and what an awesome, I mean, one, I'm happy that you're clear on that, right?

00:01:19.060 That you're like, hey, you know what I mean?

00:01:20.620 i need to make some pivots but what an awesome experience that is to go out to the immersion

00:01:25.060 camp it's it's more than just jujitsu you know this you know a lot of guys listening know this

00:01:31.240 it's it's like a brotherhood it's it's good to be back around like-minded guys getting after it

00:01:36.480 you know and think about it this is a camp where a for a full week these guys are hitting the mats

00:01:43.720 three times a day, training, doing difficult things for a solid week. I mean, what other

00:01:51.940 community does that? Right. Yeah. It's, it's, it's a lot. We, it seems like really all we do is we

00:01:58.520 eat, train, eat, train, eat, train, and then eat and then go to bed and do it over again. So yeah,

00:02:04.700 it's amazing. I'm enjoying it. We got to get you back out here next year.

00:02:08.560 yeah yeah absolutely well man i feel i can relate to your uh your segment right like i was i mean

00:02:17.160 who was it where did we talk about it last week yeah last one of the questions like yeah we talked

00:02:21.520 about it yeah feeling like an imposter right because we've been out of it for a little bit

00:02:25.680 and it's like well you have two choices continue being uh avoiding it because it's uncomfortable

00:02:32.580 or deal in reality and say hey you know it's not like riding a bike so what am i going to do about

00:02:36.520 it start training more often right it's an interesting so okay so here i've been thinking

00:02:42.080 about imposter syndrome because it's not quite to the level but it's it's it's on par with the idea

00:02:48.740 the concept of vulnerability for me like vulnerability has a real definition the same

00:02:53.880 way man and woman has a real definition and vulnerability by definition means weakness

00:02:59.020 so i choose to use proper words based on proper english and proper definitions and that's why

00:03:05.600 I have a hard time. Just be vulnerable. It's like, no, no, no, you don't want to be vulnerable.

00:03:10.440 You want to know what your vulnerabilities are and then work on them. So I understand what people

00:03:16.060 are saying. Okay. I'm not an idiot, but the reason I bring it up is because I kind of have a problem

00:03:21.540 with imposter syndrome. I just think we place too much of an emphasis and expectation on who we're

00:03:27.260 supposed to be or how we're supposed to show up. And I think it hurts us as men. Now here's what

00:03:33.520 I believe an imposter would be an imposter is somebody who says, let's take your scenario where

00:03:38.800 maybe your, your training has been diminished over the past several weeks or months or whatever

00:03:42.540 it's been. If you say, oh yeah, no, I'm, I'm, I'm training hard. Yeah. I'm training hard

00:03:48.040 knowing that you're not, that's an imposter. Yeah. Yeah. An imposter is not, Hey, I know I'm

00:03:55.400 struggling or I know I'm not doing what I need to be doing. And so I'm here so I can get back

00:04:00.440 on the path that's not an imposter guys yeah that's you getting back on the path so stop this

00:04:05.820 nonsense of saying like a buddy of ours had this because he recently got promoted he's like i just

00:04:12.500 feel like an imposter i'm like but you're not like you earned that somebody gave that somebody

00:04:18.860 awarded that based on what they saw if you don't have faith in yourself i understand that's fair

00:04:24.000 yeah somebody has faith on you so in the absence of your faith lean on theirs and act like the

00:04:30.520 belt that you are i hear what you're saying like the imposter would be the guy that that has the

00:04:35.400 belt and they do think that they're better than the belt but the guy that goes hey i'm not sure

00:04:40.520 if i if i deserve this that's not impostoring that that is just you being you know lack of

00:04:45.960 confidence or being humble or something else right yeah exactly yeah yeah yeah that's a really good

00:04:51.340 point. I just think if you start talking to yourself and saying, Oh, I just feel like an

00:04:55.720 imposter. I think there's something mentally that happens where you start telling yourself,

00:05:01.020 I don't belong in this room. I don't belong with these people. The everything else around me is

00:05:05.600 better than I am. And the proper framing is I'm really glad to be here. I'm glad that I was

00:05:12.980 invited a seat at the table. I'm, I'm excited about the things that I get to learn. And that's

00:05:18.180 humility, same set of circumstances. One, you're talking to yourself negatively. Like I'm an

00:05:22.960 imposter. I'm a loser. The other is I'm excited and I'm really going to step up to the plate

00:05:27.920 to belong with these guys. Yeah. I love that. You know, let me share this really quick story.

00:05:33.640 I love this and I think it resonates. Um, it's when I got my blue belt, I was living in New York

00:05:39.500 and I got my blue belt from Vitor Shaolin and anybody, anybody that's old school, like MMA,

00:05:44.980 you will know who Shaolin is. He's amazing. And I remember I came into the school and he said,

00:05:52.060 Hey, I want you, uh, testing, you know, I don't know, in a couple of weeks or whatever for your

00:05:56.800 blue belt. And I said, Oh, Shaolin, you know, I don't think I'm, I don't think I'm ready.

00:06:01.660 And he goes and he goes, Whoa, that's my decision. If you're ready, that's not your decision.

00:06:09.440 he's like so if i say you're ready you're ready now if you don't feel you're ready that's for you

00:06:16.560 to do something about it so you feel deserving of it but it's my decision whether you get promoted

00:06:21.560 or not and i'm like duly noted right i was like yes sir got it yeah and i was like man that really

00:06:28.740 resonated with me um the way he handled that yeah that's cool i like that i like when i like when

00:06:34.820 men are convicted and then they say it not not in a way that's rude or inappropriate but they're

00:06:41.100 like no no no you misunderstand this is the way it is but they do it with such conviction and clarity

00:06:48.060 that you can't help but respect it even though it might not feel totally comfortable to hear

00:06:54.500 yeah totally totally awesome brother all right should we get into some questions we got your

00:07:00.600 we got our jujitsu in let's do it man all right so i think we have a little bit of a time delay

00:07:07.140 or a lag can you hear me okay yeah i hear you nice and nice and loud okay okay we're good all

00:07:14.840 right uh marcus whitfield my wife and i have been arguing about how much time i spend at the gym

00:07:21.660 versus the with the kids how do you personally draw that line between taking care of yourself

00:07:27.180 and being present as a dad i i would i would just do it when the kids aren't available

00:07:35.600 so you're not competing i mean yeah right and then then problem solved like the issues addressed if

00:07:43.320 your kids wake up at 6 30 for school then you're at the gym between 5 30 and 6 30 and then then

00:07:50.360 it's just not an issue like there's other ways that we can talk about what's a pro because

00:07:53.840 sometimes there's going to be things that you need to do that will compete with family time.

00:08:00.400 And that happens periodically, but if you can help it, then do it. Like I know Kip,

00:08:05.720 one thing that you do is you train jujitsu during the day. Like you, you bring your stuff during the

00:08:10.940 day, take a shower, you know, at lunch or whatever it is, take a quick lunch, train jujitsu, and then

00:08:15.380 go back to work. That doesn't compete with family time. Perfect. Problem solved. No issue that you

00:08:19.920 need to address there. So if you're flexible and you work at home, do it, do it at 10 o'clock.

00:08:26.180 You know, kids are already at school. Um, you probably got a little bit of work done,

00:08:30.460 go get your train in and then get back to work. So I think there's ways that if we just spend a

00:08:35.300 little bit of time thinking about how our schedule might work, I don't really believe that there's

00:08:40.760 a lot of situations or at least consistent situations where it's always going to conflict

00:08:45.320 with something else that you have going on yeah so does that mean that you're going to need to

00:08:50.120 go to bed a half hour early maybe so i i think that's a pretty good trade let me ask you this

00:08:56.640 ryan because i feel i mean and i'm not saying this against marcus right but we're obviously

00:09:01.640 talking to more guys here on the podcast more than just marcus you know i feel into this trap

00:09:07.020 early in my marriage where um everything that i did outside the home was a conflict

00:09:13.680 you know what i mean and it was and it was part of his like this immaturity of of a young couple

00:09:20.060 and it was like well if you do anything without me or the kids then you're being selfish right

00:09:24.880 and some guys that we know we have a tendency to just stop having friends and everything's just

00:09:30.820 about our home life and so there's this balance of boundaries you know and i i even experienced

00:09:36.680 this with Asia, where when we first got married, I was just like this, I'm doing jujitsu. And it

00:09:43.800 did conflict with things. And guess what? I did it anyway. And over time she realized like, okay,

00:09:49.980 got it. This isn't just his hobby. This is really important to him. But it, but I, it required me

00:09:57.520 to have some boundaries around it and prioritize it for me to get to that place. Does it make

00:10:02.440 sense yeah and and one thing i would say when it comes to boundaries is you can communicate with

00:10:11.820 your spouse about what you need but you don't always need to ask for permission but you do need

00:10:18.280 to ask for consideration so if if you're having this conversation with your wife you're not

00:10:25.660 men don't need to ask permission to do things okay and by the way neither does she i'm not

00:10:32.220 saying she does either. Yeah. You don't need to ask your wife for permission, but you do need to

00:10:37.420 take her into consideration. That's probably the best way to say it. So if you're, if you're like,

00:10:43.420 Hey babe, I'm going to start training jujitsu and I'm going to go on Tuesday night, but she's been

00:10:48.660 doing girls bunco night every Tuesday night for the last six years. Sorry, pal. You're not doing

00:10:54.920 jujitsu Tuesday night, Wednesday, Thursday. Sure. Not Tuesday though. And that's taking your person

00:11:02.000 into consideration without having to feel like you need to ask for permission so and there's

00:11:08.880 tactful ways to do it and there's just some hills you just don't need to die on right if you're both

00:11:13.160 fighting about tuesday night but there's a class on thursday night and that's just as good to you

00:11:17.040 then let her have tuesday who cares why are you going to make that be your battle you can save

00:11:21.040 your save your your energy for something that actually matters that you actually kind of maybe

00:11:25.620 need to dig your heels in on but you you did bring up something interesting is you said that

00:11:30.640 she didn't originally understand it, but you did it anyways. I think there's a part of it

00:11:35.380 is a responsibility for us as men to explain that in a way that, that, that she could see

00:11:40.300 it through her eyes. Cause what she sees probably is, well, he's not here to help me. He's not here

00:11:47.600 for the kids. He doesn't love me. He cares about this more than me. He's not helping with this

00:11:51.220 around the house. What she doesn't see is that this is making you a healthier person. This is

00:11:58.040 helping you with your patients and helping you with leadership principles and helping you have

00:12:03.960 a good mental health because you're talking with other men and not having to dump all of that on

00:12:08.480 her. So if you start explaining it from that perspective and she sees that that's actually

00:12:13.060 helping in that regard, what ends up happening is she actually becomes an advocate of it. Like,

00:12:18.020 I don't, I don't know if this is the case kit, but I would assume that Asia is probably an advocate

00:12:22.920 of you training jiu-jitsu at this point totally totally right and the same thing happens with 0.98

00:12:28.280 the iron council guys will join the iron council and and their wives will be like oh your little

00:12:33.840 man group oh paying for friends and they'll kind of mock and poke and then they get two three four

00:12:39.100 months into it and their wife is like hey what would your iron council guys think about what

00:12:44.900 you're doing right now or hey it's wednesday it's nine o'clock this is your meeting time how come

00:12:50.240 you're not on your call. And the women become the biggest advocate of what we're doing because she 1.00

00:12:55.540 sees how important it is not only for her husband, but for the family. Yeah, totally. I mean, let's

00:13:02.800 say it this way. If things are buttoned up at home, it's a lot easier to be spending time at

00:13:08.880 the gym and on the mats when things aren't buttoned up at home and there's conflict at home.

00:13:13.920 And then we're running off to the gym and the mats. Those are going to be greater conflicts

00:13:18.840 in your marriage because things are going unaddressed well it becomes a form of escapism

00:13:25.380 as a form of as opposed to a form of healthy habits yeah totally all right danny reese

00:13:33.920 i'm six months sober after a dui scared me straight what's one thing that's actually

00:13:40.340 helped you stay consistent when you quit drinking versus the stuff that just sounded good on paper

00:13:45.820 um i mean there there's a lot there is a lot to this and i don't think it's any one thing

00:13:54.080 in particular i think it's a a framework a set of systems because if if i just said well you know

00:14:01.320 just remove all the alcohol in your house you run down the store and get alcohol like that's not a

00:14:06.400 problem it'll take you two minutes yeah uh if if all you were doing is saying well i have a friend

00:14:12.240 i have a sponsor i call when i'm tempted okay just don't call him and then you don't have to

00:14:18.420 worry about him talking you out of drinking i think like if yeah like you can get around it

00:14:23.560 yeah oh yeah you can you can weasel your way through any little system but the more little

00:14:28.060 webs that you set up the harder it becomes right so if you're like okay no alcohol in the house

00:14:32.560 i don't visit this grocery store or that convenience store or the liquor store

00:14:37.620 um you do have a friend group uh you when you're tempted another thing is when you're tempted have

00:14:46.200 an activity to to replace it with one thing that's really been helpful for me is i can have a drink

00:14:52.360 later so if i'm tempted to have a drink i'm like i can do that later but for now i'm gonna go to the

00:14:59.640 gym because when i go to the gym and i come back i'm like nah i'm good like that that moment

00:15:07.540 has passed for me. Or if it hasn't, then I go right back into, well, I'll do that later. Right

00:15:13.620 now I'm going to cook dinner or right now I'm going to call my friend or right now I'm going

00:15:17.700 to go do whatever we'll go do work. I can, I can always push back a drink, but I don't negotiate

00:15:26.840 that way with things that are important to me, like friendship, hobbies, activities, work

00:15:33.180 activities, emails, things like that. So I always place those as a higher priority.

00:15:38.100 And what happens, like, look at your to-do list. Like every man has a to-do list.

00:15:41.460 The one that's the least prioritized to you rarely gets done during the day. It always gets pushed

00:15:47.820 back to tomorrow, to tomorrow, to tomorrow, to next week, to whatever. Well, the same thing with

00:15:51.600 alcohol. I'm going to, I'm going to push that back. That's my least prioritized thing. And I'm

00:15:57.520 going to do everything else before that. And I'll get to that if I get a chance, but I probably won't.

00:16:01.060 so i think it's a system instead of just like one thing yeah and and systems and often drive

00:16:09.860 identity shift right or paradigm shift and one thing i've heard you say ryan a lot that really

00:16:18.280 resonated with me even though like this isn't an issue for me but i just i don't know inspires me

00:16:23.420 but i've heard you say something to the extent that you don't kind of buy into the idea that

00:16:29.480 like I'm an alcoholic, right? Because you feel like that defines you as someone that has a

00:16:36.240 drinking problem and you kind of have shifted like, no, I'm not. Um, can you share your thoughts

00:16:43.200 around that and, and how that has been powerful for you? I know that kind of goes against, you

00:16:48.180 know, AA or whatever, Alcoholics Anonymous, but like, I don't know. I just, I love that idea that

00:16:54.880 you've shared in the past. And maybe that would be valuable for Danny. Yeah. I mean, I'll share

00:16:59.760 it. I don't want to undermine anybody who uses that and it's helpful. Yeah. Right. Like maybe

00:17:06.160 five years ago, I would have said, you're an idiot if you do that. And now with a little bit

00:17:10.340 of humility, I can say that doesn't work for me. This works for me. But if, if, if going to an AA

00:17:16.600 meeting and, and introducing yourself as an alcoholic is what keeps you on the path, do it.

00:17:21.880 not, I mean, it's not like wrong with it. If it works for you, do it. There was this woman

00:17:27.340 who, um, she was sober for like 30 something years and she kept going to her meetings and

00:17:35.840 she would always introduce herself as an alcoholic. I'm like, are you though? Like,

00:17:39.900 are you? Yeah. I commend her. Like, I think it's awesome. I think it's great. I actually

00:17:44.780 really resonated with her probably more so than just about anybody else in that group.

00:17:48.440 But it was always interesting to me.

00:17:49.820 I'm like, I don't think you are.

00:17:51.240 I don't, you keep saying that word.

00:17:53.140 I don't think it means what you think it means.

00:17:56.340 And, um, but yeah, for me, it's, it's like, no, I'm not, I know why somebody would say

00:18:01.680 it because the whole idea and concept is that in a way you're weak and powerless against

00:18:06.320 it without outside help, right?

00:18:07.800 The help of God, the help of the support system and group.

00:18:10.560 I believe that can exist and also believe that I'm not defined by being impacted differently

00:18:17.800 by alcohol. And that's really what an alcoholic means is that it impacts you in a different way.

00:18:23.300 And I think part of it is biological, right? Our bodies respond different. Like when I was drinking,

00:18:29.860 I could put down, I could, I could drink a lot, like more than the average person.

00:18:35.680 And there's actually scientific studies that suggest that there's certain biological makeup

00:18:42.160 and even, even pigmentation and hair color come into play, or at least are correlated to it.

00:18:48.760 It's interesting. Um, so yeah, basically biologically a body might respond differently

00:18:56.880 to somebody who's not prone to alcohol abuse. Also, uh, it's genetic. Um, also it's, it's a

00:19:04.760 mindset. You know, if you have a very addictive focus type personality, you're going to be more

00:19:10.840 prone to addiction, whether it's pornography or drug abuse or alcohol abuse. So there's a lot of

00:19:15.760 factors at play here. And so I know what people are saying. And if that's what it takes to help

00:19:20.600 them make a system that by all means, but I don't define myself as that I define myself as not that

00:19:27.240 I'm not that. Now I have a propensity to it. I'm tempted by it, but I'm not that.

00:19:34.280 And so I'm going to create systems that keep me from this and other systems that move me towards my chosen identity that are going to help me off the carrot and the stick, if you will, like we've talked about in the past.

00:19:48.840 Yeah, I like that.

00:19:50.340 Thanks for sharing that.

00:19:52.560 Nathaniel Cross, I've got a temper and I inherited it straight from my old man.

00:19:57.320 and I hate it, would actually work for you to get control of your anger instead of just

00:20:03.840 white-knuckling it. Well, we just talked about genetics. I don't actually know the science

00:20:09.720 behind this. Maybe you have some insight or somebody else does. Again, words are important

00:20:14.940 because words are interesting. They're just noises we've assigned meaning to so we can

00:20:21.460 understand each other. Yeah. Like we have breath and we have vocal cords and it makes these weird

00:20:26.780 noises and we manipulate our mouths to make it make that sound. That's it. That's all noises

00:20:30.880 or words are spoken words anyways. So you said I inherited it from my father. I don't know if

00:20:39.660 that's the case. A propensity for anger is genetic possibly. I don't know. I would choose

00:20:46.480 a different word. I would say I learned that from my father. Yeah. Learned because inherited is

00:20:53.180 powerless learned is, well, I picked that up. I can pick something else up. And I think that's

00:21:00.000 more empowering. If you learn that you can learn to be something else. So there's a little,

00:21:04.620 maybe a nuance to consider. And maybe he's just saying it tongue in cheek. I inherited it from

00:21:09.500 my father. I know people are joking and stuff, but, but it's important. I think it's like,

00:21:13.140 no, you learned it along the way. At some point you learned that when things weren't going your

00:21:17.380 way, that you're going to yell and you're going to scream and you're going to shout and you're

00:21:19.940 going to throw a temper tantrum and then people are going to behave the way that you want them to

00:21:24.780 and that is your form of leadership you need to talk about this kip in fact we've got a um

00:21:31.300 we've got a war room coming up i think it's september 16th and you're going to be talking

00:21:36.900 about forms of leadership healthy and negative forms of leadership and one is the enforcer

00:21:41.560 and that kind of falls in line with what anger is is like if i just yell if i just shout if i

00:21:49.720 be intimidating if i impose my will against somebody then they'll do what i want them to do

00:21:54.200 and it'll be good for them that's a problem so the question was and by the way if you guys go to

00:22:01.800 order of man.com slash war room you can sign up for that and it's going to be september 16th at

00:22:07.380 8 p.m eastern so it's and it's free it's a free training that kips kips do i'll be there too but

00:22:12.240 kept hosting that training and we're excited about it. Um, what helped me, I would say a couple of

00:22:20.020 things. Number one, get yourself out of the environment for a minute, because there's going

00:22:25.940 to be something that's bothering you in that moment. Right. And so part of what it is for me

00:22:30.220 is if my kids are disrespecting me, I hate disrespect. It really bothers me. So if I feel

00:22:39.220 disrespect even if they're not being totally disrespectful or even if they're not trying to be

00:22:43.040 but i feel like i'm being disrespected bro hammer's coming down it just drives me up the wall and so i

00:22:51.060 choose to disengage for a minute like hey it might even just be going into my room for a minute and

00:22:57.940 like close the door you know take a breath put some cold water on my face breathe maybe it's go

00:23:02.860 for a walk the problem will still be there okay you don't need to address it right there in the

00:23:07.460 of the promise. The problem will still be there. Go for a walk, cool down, calm down, go out into

00:23:12.800 the garage, get a little lift in, you know, read a book potentially. I don't, I don't, that probably

00:23:18.260 wouldn't do it for me, but I know it does for other people say a prayer, meditate, breathe box

00:23:22.700 breathing. Um, whatever you need to do just to like, get yourself in a different environment

00:23:28.600 than the one that's stimulating you right now, because then you're going to start seeing it

00:23:33.640 different. And I've, I've never had it not happen where I didn't go for a walk or go in my room and

00:23:38.180 lay down for 30 seconds and think, okay, all right. Like, yeah, you're feeling disrespected.

00:23:44.660 They're being little turds that can exist as well. And also what's the best way to handle this?

00:23:50.040 Is it to just yell and kick and scream and shout, or is it to talk with them about why it's

00:23:56.880 important they have respect and they, they treat me with respect and how I expect to be treated and

00:24:02.840 talk to. And then you can actually have a really healthy conversation. But I think the two things

00:24:06.940 that have worked for me is find something to get yourself out of the environment and then just let

00:24:11.360 a little space pass. Just let it pass and tell them, you know, Hey guys, like I'm really bothered

00:24:17.060 right now. I feel like the way that you guys are communicating or what you're doing is very

00:24:22.000 disrespectful. So I'm going to ask you to stop. I'm going to take a beat for a minute. So I don't

00:24:27.840 do something that I will regret later. And I'm going to ask you to go to your room. I'm going

00:24:33.100 to ask you to go to your room and I'm going to ask you to go to your room. And in about 10 minutes,

00:24:38.080 we'll all come back in the living room. We'll have a little powwow and then we'll go on with

00:24:42.400 our night. Yeah. And that seems to help. I like it. I I've used the analogy of like,

00:24:48.560 we're in the jar, right? And you can't see the label when you're inside the jar. And so,

00:24:53.980 you know, that stepping away is like kind of getting out of the jar. So you can see the label

00:24:57.940 on the outside and go, Oh, got it. Right. Like that's why I was so upset in there. And, and one

00:25:03.860 thing that I think is important is when we're looking at the label, when we've removed ourselves

00:25:08.540 from the scenario is getting present to the long-term objective. Often what I think happens

00:25:18.860 is we lose sight see enforcement works anger works it does work right fast Daniel it totally

00:25:25.720 works yeah yeah you you can yell and they'll do what you want them to do and and the room will

00:25:30.960 get clean or they'll say sorry like there's all kinds of things you can get people to do

00:25:35.540 utilizing anger but was it about the room right is that your role as dad is to never be

00:25:44.680 disrespected in life? Is that your mission and purpose? No, it's to teach these kids.

00:25:53.280 It's to be a good example. It's to give them feedback so they can learn and grow and learn

00:25:59.160 how they should treat people. Okay, got it. I can't do that if I'm in the jar and I'm operating

00:26:04.500 from a different mindset. And so realize it works, but also realize, look at, I think most of the

00:26:10.440 time when we're anger when we're angry we're operating in the moment of like a tactical win

00:26:16.480 how do i fix not being disrespected but i'm not thinking strategic and long term usually yeah

00:26:23.580 the only the only thing i would add to that and i agree with everything you said

00:26:27.620 is i would i would also take it the other way on the timeline so you're talking about projecting

00:26:33.080 yourself forward into the future right like i'm going to do things that are going to have a

00:26:38.120 positive impact over a long period of time but i would also say take it backward and at the end of

00:26:43.360 the day one thing that you can do is just sit down and say okay journal every night i had this

00:26:48.700 experience and my you know my five-year-old did this thing and it just pissed me off unreasonably

00:26:55.800 so because now you have a little time between what happened and now and this is how i wanted

00:27:01.000 to react like my knee-jerk reaction said you know i should not say what i was gonna say

00:27:07.940 But right then, whatever came to mind, okay, write it down, drop, kick that little turd

00:27:13.820 across the living room, right?

00:27:15.640 I didn't do that.

00:27:16.860 And instead I did X, Y, and Z.

00:27:18.500 And that seemed to help calm the situation down.

00:27:20.320 And here's how it turned out.

00:27:21.280 And then the other part of that to go back is to say, why did I feel disrespected?

00:27:25.920 Where did that come from?

00:27:28.460 Where did I first associate that behavior with disrespect?

00:27:32.760 and then when did i learn that disrespect warrants this response and who did i learn that from your

00:27:41.260 father you said it and start working through some of that as well yeah man reflection is so important

00:27:47.540 in the iron council you know we have a chance to reflect at the end of every quarter right and we

00:27:52.900 have a month left in q3 and it's just a good time for us always in the ic to just pause and go like

00:28:00.640 how did that go? Right. Am I improving my relationship? And there's just huge power in it.

00:28:05.900 In fact, yesterday, man, I found this old video. Um, what was it? Oh, my Google drive is running

00:28:12.140 out of space. Right. And so I'm like searching for large files to, you know, delete and no,

00:28:19.360 no, it wasn't that it was, uh, Asia sent me this video and it was Cola and he was probably about

00:28:26.260 three years old and i'm getting ready to leave the house in the morning it looks like i was

00:28:31.580 probably going to the office or something and he's crying does not want me to go right and he's like

00:28:37.020 no no and i i'm like i give him a kiss i close the door and he just starts bawling daddy you know

00:28:43.860 and he runs to the window and he's looking out the little window and he's like bye you know love

00:28:50.860 you and my heart's like i'm watching this you know it's been 40 years my heart is just being

00:28:56.060 torn you know like i'm so sad for this little kid and i reflected i went how's my relationship with

00:29:03.140 him now does when i leave or when he goes to school is he a little sad does he want to hang

00:29:10.480 around me like he did when he was three or is he happy to get rid of me you know and i think that's

00:29:17.680 powerful for all us consider i mean maybe we're not in the space of like i'm angry but we might

00:29:24.400 be coming across angry yeah you know and and we're not going to be aware of that unless we

00:29:30.560 kind of pause and reflect a little bit in regards to how we're showing up well we also need to

00:29:35.200 remember i think this is important i mean i've heard my kids say this i heard my ex-wife say it

00:29:40.280 and it's not it's not exclusive to me i've heard this in multiple scenarios men are scary

00:29:46.080 like we're bigger we're stronger we're more stern our voices are typically louder they're deeper

00:29:56.060 we're way more blunt and direct than empathetic generally speaking so to a woman even if you

00:30:03.400 think you're communicating effectively you have to understand that a woman is interpreting that as

00:30:08.520 i'm a little vulnerable here and kids look at it and now you're significantly bigger you're

00:30:15.860 significantly louder and so they're like why my kids used to say why are you yelling i'm not

00:30:20.160 yelling and i genuinely didn't think i was and i will fight to the day this day and say i wasn't

00:30:27.820 yelling but if i look at it from their perspective i was yelling if if ants could talk they would

00:30:36.660 think that we were mega giants and yet i don't think we're giants we're just normal sized right

00:30:42.820 it's all perspective yeah totally all right sal vitel i got laid off after 14 years at the same

00:30:53.380 company and erect more than my bank account erect how i see myself how do you separate your identity

00:31:00.860 as a man from what you do to work and we see this a lot huh ryan like i i think this is kind of

00:31:07.280 common, right? Like guys, I don't know, man, I've seen this where like a guy loses his job and then

00:31:13.120 like they almost go into depression and then it's a, it's a really difficult time for a lot of guys

00:31:19.240 if, if they lose their job. Yeah. It's a real, it's a good, it's a good word of caution for

00:31:25.040 anybody who is not in this boat where, you know, they, they haven't lost their job. Um, they

00:31:30.020 haven't retired. That's another one. Just retirement's hard on men. Um, or they haven't

00:31:35.660 been medically disqualified from, from doing work. You see that a lot in the military, you guys get

00:31:40.560 injured or her or shot or whatever, and they get thrown out of the military. And it's like,

00:31:45.040 who am I now? And that's the question that you should ask. Who are you? And there's, there's

00:31:52.560 one prompt, um, that, that I, that I like that will help you do this. And it's a, I am a man,

00:32:03.380 it's kind of hard to like, like describe it, but I think you guys will get it. I am a man who,

00:32:09.720 and then you fill in the blank, but it can't have anything to do with

00:32:15.140 external factors. It has to be internal only. So for example, I am a man who loves his family.

00:32:24.980 i am a man who honors people i am a man who respects myself i am a man who will do the

00:32:35.280 right thing even when i'm tempted to do the wrong thing i'm a man who believes in being honest and

00:32:42.580 being moral i'm a man who believes in god like all of these things are can be true without some

00:32:51.580 external factor having to exist even the one of like i'm a man define it they don't like even

00:32:58.020 even if you said i'm a man who loves my family heaven forbid if a member of my family passed

00:33:03.900 away prematurely i can still be a man who loves even a even a dead relative them being alive is

00:33:10.980 not even a factor in in that so i would spend a lot and that's why when we do um our vision

00:33:17.940 planning inside the iron council. We do, we have, it's a, it's a, there's two parts to it.

00:33:22.840 There's the goals based, right? Like for me, I want to own a ranch in Montana. That's a dream

00:33:28.560 that I have down the road. I can see it. I know what the house looks like. I know what the property

00:33:33.360 looks like. I know what kind of work I'm doing on the property. I know what kind of friends are

00:33:37.200 coming to the place. I can see that that's goals based. The values based is I'm going to be a

00:33:44.160 diligent and hard worker. I'm going to be prudent with my finances and resources so that I can get

00:33:50.600 myself to the position where I will achieve that thing. And that's why I think the values-based

00:33:57.080 vision is in many ways way more important than the goals-based vision. Because if I never have

00:34:04.820 a ranch in Montana, I can still do all the right things because it's not contingent upon my

00:34:11.020 external circumstances. And by the way, look, so here's, so here's an interesting thing like

00:34:17.140 about work, let's say. So if you say I'm a man who, who values, I'm a man who prides himself

00:34:25.780 on being valuable to others. Okay. I can do that at X, Y, Z company. I can do that at ABC company.

00:34:35.620 I can do that here. I can do that there. I can do it in work. I can do it in charitable

00:34:39.520 circumstances, it does, it's not reliant or contingent upon me working at that particular

00:34:45.500 company. So for this gentleman, I'd spend some time really, really reflecting and saying, okay,

00:34:50.560 who are you at your core that is not contingent upon X outside circumstances and then go get

00:34:57.100 another job. And you know, what's great about this is you're a better man for this. This isn't like,

00:35:02.680 you know, this is plan B, you lost your job, you know, have a more definite form of purpose and

00:35:09.680 clarity of who you are. No, no, you should do that anyway, whether you lost your job or not.

00:35:14.440 And you're going to show up more powerfully for the next employer or where you're currently

00:35:20.160 employed. This is a really strong way for us to identify who we are and latch onto an identity

00:35:27.580 that's not um um dependent on our circumstances and or dependent on things outside of our control

00:35:35.020 yeah yeah i mean we we have i mean everybody knows an example of this but we have a friend

00:35:41.140 kip who uh retired from law enforcement after 25 years and for a gentleman like that and we've seen

00:35:48.460 this over and over again especially when it comes to leo um uh military members you know when they

00:35:57.180 retire in many, in many cases, a lot of these guys are young because they got into the department or

00:36:01.520 into the military when they were, you know, 20 years old, 18, 20 years old, and they're 25 years

00:36:07.120 in and they're now 45. That's my age. That's not old by any means, right? Um, if you pride yourself

00:36:16.120 and you think you're only valuable as a police officer, for example, or a, or, or a soldier or

00:36:22.140 a airman or a Marine when that's gone and it will go away, inevitably it will go away.

00:36:28.600 If that's all you built your value on, you're going to have a hard time.

00:36:31.960 But if you, if instead of that, you brought it out and said, I'm a man who values protecting

00:36:37.320 my community and my loved ones.

00:36:40.120 Well, you can do that in a lot of different ways.

00:36:42.040 Law enforcement is one way you could, you could become a firearms instructor.

00:36:46.360 You've got a set of skills that could teach other people how to carry firearms.

00:36:49.560 you know you could do that in so many ways and that's why i really like the book it's a little

00:36:54.540 bit older now which sounds crazy it's probably 10 or 12 years old it's start with why by simon

00:37:00.020 senek and uh i would highly encourage this guy to read that and everybody to read that book

00:37:07.120 so you're starting with the why as opposed to starting with the what you do yeah and i know

00:37:13.440 if you guys even want even more additional assistance around defining that why and how

00:37:18.820 that relates to systems that we kind of talked about earlier um you know join us in the iron

00:37:23.900 council order of man.com iron council to to get on the path with a group of other guys doing the

00:37:28.880 same thing yeah all right ben uh kolowski i went through a divorce two years ago and still can't

00:37:36.620 and i still catch myself resenting my ex in front of our son how do you keep that poison from leaking

00:37:43.580 onto your kids and and what do you mean what do you think he means by resenting my ex in front

00:37:49.220 like saying like speaking bad things probably yeah probably just like taking little i mean

00:37:54.780 that happens all the time jabs little jabs little pop shots you know like oh yeah like let's say

00:38:00.700 let's say your son said oh mom you know mom said she was gonna do this thing and she didn't do it

00:38:07.040 and you're like yeah that sounds about right or that tracks yeah right like little like little

00:38:12.560 passive aggressive things never change yeah right stuff like that exactly and you can believe that

00:38:17.880 and it might even be true you don't need to vocalize it so here's what i would do

00:38:21.840 or here's what i would suggest stop thinking poorly of her

00:38:26.000 because then you don't need to worry about is it going to slip out because what you're what

00:38:34.180 you're trying to do is you're saying my leg is broken and i'm just going to put a a band-aid

00:38:41.260 over it and expect that some, some blood and pus isn't going to ooze out of the wound of a

00:38:46.820 compound fracture. How's that going to work? Here's an idea, fix the fracture. And then you

00:38:55.100 don't have to worry about it oozing out. So how do you do that? That's the real question. And the

00:39:01.140 real question is focus on the redeeming qualities. And she's got some, believe it or not, she's got

00:39:07.480 Awesome. Yeah. Because you guys had a kid together and you were in a relationship at some point. And, um, yeah, you can still be honest and you can still reflect upon how the relationship was and how she was and what you want and what you don't want in a new or existing relationship.

00:39:25.300 But the more you focus on the resentment that you have towards her, the easier it is to seep out into other aspects of your life.

00:39:33.740 So focus on the redeeming qualities. 0.76

00:39:37.480 Maybe she is like my ex.

00:39:39.840 She's a loving mother.

00:39:41.400 She's a great mom.

00:39:43.400 I've never doubted that.

00:39:44.780 I've never that's I'm not lying about that.

00:39:47.340 I'm not like masking it to try to fool myself into thinking something else.

00:39:51.580 No, she is a great mom.

00:39:53.140 she's highly engaged with her kids she homeschools the kids um they they love her to death they have

00:40:00.200 fun she she's she's does fun things with them she's great at that she's also very kind you know

00:40:07.920 she she cares about people she she wants to pour into people she wants to serve people

00:40:13.220 like i can choose to focus on those things and there's things that i don't like

00:40:17.740 and just so what like there i like you a lot kip and there's some things where that bothers me

00:40:23.960 so so what like i choose to focus on what i like and that works for me yeah i think that's spot on

00:40:33.340 man i mean we can't hide it and that goes for so many things in life right if we see people as a

00:40:38.620 problem it doesn't matter what you say they'll know they even your facial expressions sense it

00:40:44.780 Yeah. Yeah, totally. All right. Wyatt Solomon, I feel more like myself in the woods than anywhere

00:40:53.120 else. Why do you think so many men are drawn back to the outdoors? And is that a real fix

00:41:00.520 or just a temporary escape? Hmm. Hmm. That's a temporary escape really bad. I mean, I don't

00:41:09.700 know if I label it as a bad thing. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe, maybe not an escape. Maybe

00:41:15.000 a reprieve is, is the right verbiage. It's like, cause here's the reality. We're stuck in these

00:41:20.040 concrete jungles for the, the, the majority of our lives. Right. And we, as men are wild. If you,

00:41:27.540 if you've never read, um, iron John by Robert Bly, read that he talks about the wild man and

00:41:32.620 we need to tap into the wild man. Um, uh, John Eldridge talks about this in his book, wild at

00:41:38.540 heart. If you haven't read that book, that, that one transformed my life, literally transformed my

00:41:42.700 life. And so if you haven't read that, read that too. But the concept is that we are wild by nature.

00:41:48.200 We take risks. We want to explore. We want to dig. We want to build. We want to fight. We want to

00:41:53.360 kill. We want to burn things and bring, bring home the, the, the tiger skull and, you know,

00:42:00.220 conquer the neighboring tribe and jump out of that tree to see what would happen if we jump out of

00:42:06.120 that tree you know you'll break your leg is what will happen but you still want to see it even if

00:42:09.940 somebody tells you you still want to experience it and we as men don't have that it's we're

00:42:14.820 docile all of that's been stripped away from the time we're little think about the first rules

00:42:20.400 that you have when you go to kindergarten okay everybody sit down be quiet color within the

00:42:26.460 lines and if you get quiet we all put our fingers up or whatever and then this means to you know and

00:42:31.760 So we have these female teachers teaching us to to imprison the wild man within us. 0.98

00:42:39.420 And then we have no outlet to go do it, even at recess.

00:42:42.140 It's like, OK, you know, at recess, you can go play this or this, but you can't be too rowdy.

00:42:47.160 Oh, you're being too loud. You can't be too loud.

00:42:49.480 Oh, no, the tetherball. We don't do that anymore because little Timmy whacked his head on the tetherball pole because he wasn't paying attention.

00:42:55.820 And so instead of telling little Timmy he's an idiot, we just pulled out the tetherball pole.

00:43:00.100 yeah so everything in our society strips all of this away so that's no wonder to me that

00:43:07.840 well i mean this is what i'm doing this week is like i i go and i fight other men for fun

00:43:16.880 and and then we try to hurt each other like we try to literally choke each other our the shirt on

00:43:24.180 the tagline guess what the tagline for camp is what choke your friends

00:43:29.680 i love it this is what we need as men we need this but we don't have it in any other context so

00:43:39.200 that's the answer as to why we feel like ourselves because we're letting ourselves

00:43:44.400 be ourselves and i consider it a maybe not even reprieve a recharge a draw back to to our to our

00:43:53.280 core so that we can go tackle the stuff that's in front of us i think for me too i totally agree

00:44:00.620 with you all of that is true for me i think being out in the woods though also centers me on

00:44:07.400 how great life is and what's really important it just simplifies things you know when when

00:44:15.360 the focus is make a fire, eat some food and find some water. It just, it lets me look at life and

00:44:25.920 realize how much of that is just noise. All this stuff that like, I think is important in the grand

00:44:32.860 scheme of thing, uh, of things is not, it's not important at all, you know? And, um, you know,

00:44:40.040 this is why I love about small towns, you know, a little bit because their focus is not all the

00:44:46.700 noise of the world and, and politics and all these other things are very simplistic. And there's

00:44:52.000 something to be said for that. I also think along those same lines, it's just, you're free of

00:44:57.240 distraction, right? I mean, I've got one, two, three, four, five, I've got seven tabs on my

00:45:03.600 browser pulled up right now. I can, my phone's in my pocket. I can feel it. It's buzzed at me

00:45:08.700 half a dozen times. I've got people walking by here. I've got, I've got an agenda this afternoon.

00:45:15.180 I got a fall. I've got a calendar. I'm like, I could get to these other appointments. Like I've

00:45:18.980 got so much going on, but when you're out camping even or hunting, it's like no technology, no

00:45:25.940 alarms, no chirps and chimes and notifications. It's just, that's part of the reason I like

00:45:31.240 whitetail hunting. I was talking with another guy this week and he, he's mostly Western mule deer

00:45:36.720 hunting so he's doing spot and stock right so he'll glass up on a hill find a deer and like

00:45:41.180 work into it which is great that's cool i like that form of hunting but he's like oh white tail

00:45:46.160 hunting is hard i'm like it's not hard what you do is hard i just have to sit in a stand that's

00:45:50.960 not hard and he's like no that's what makes it hard you have to just sit there and be present

00:45:58.360 without anything to do i'm like yeah good point good yeah yeah but there's power in it right yeah

00:46:06.480 And that's why we love hunting, right?

00:46:08.420 There's so much power in it.

00:46:09.280 I remember the first time we were in Molokai, I literally watched a spider create a web.

00:46:18.580 I literally watched it.

00:46:20.120 I remember thinking, is it going to make the center first, or is it going to start on the outside?

00:46:27.380 I literally got to watch and know for myself if it was going to do the outside and work in or in out.

00:46:35.340 it was fascinating was it in and out out yeah out and then it worked in i was like it did what i

00:46:42.860 thought it was the other way around i don't know if it's a weird spider maybe it's a dysfunctional

00:46:46.880 spider that i found in molokai but i was like that's fascinating i mean you've never really

00:46:52.700 lived until you've sat in a tree stand where it's you know 20 degrees and you're freezing and you're

00:46:57.600 watching a squirrel on a branch next to you and you're just watching it like fill its mouth and

00:47:03.240 eat and like do little moves and yeah it's hilarious yeah oh man it's so great do you

00:47:09.320 have time for one more question yeah let's take one more no let's take one more okay we'll do a

00:47:12.860 rapid fire um let's go with hollis uh bregman i had a heart scare last year nothing major but it

00:47:20.840 made me think hard about what i'm actually leaving behind what does legacy mean to you

00:47:27.360 outside of just money at a last name? Um, to me, I think legacy is just a set of behaviors

00:47:37.180 and beliefs that you've taught to the people who are important to you, you know, hard work,

00:47:44.460 honesty, um, compassion, kindness, empathy, toughness, grit, resilience.

00:47:51.800 So that's what I think of. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I definitely would like to leave my kids in a

00:47:55.840 better financial position than, than I was, but I think more important than the financial position

00:48:00.320 is all the skills that it took me to get to that point. It's, it's kind of like if, if you're

00:48:04.640 trying to learn, learn a skill, but let me, oh, so let's give you, I'll give you a jujitsu example

00:48:11.760 and then a firearms example. So if I were to ask you, Kip, let's say, you know, nothing about

00:48:16.520 jujitsu, nothing about it. And I say, Hey, I can give you one of two things. I can give you the

00:48:24.060 best gi the best belt the best instructor the best mats the best gym the best academy i give you all

00:48:32.180 the best tools top notch like world champions use this stuff i'll give you all the best tools

00:48:39.260 or i'll give you the best skill set yeah go for the skill set even if it means you don't have a

00:48:48.320 dojo you don't have a you don't even have a gi you're gonna roll on the grass and it's gonna

00:48:55.360 be miserable you choose skill set or tools skill set right in firearms if i said kip i'm gonna give

00:49:03.000 you this pistol top of the line beautiful beautifully crafted precise custom made for

00:49:10.860 your grip got the perfect vortex sight on it and i'm gonna just give it to you or i'm gonna give

00:49:18.300 you the old beat up revolver that misfires every sixth round that was your grandpa's that isn't

00:49:25.460 chambered quite correctly in that one chamber and the trigger's a little sticky but i'm going to

00:49:31.360 give you all of the skills to proper shooting technique and form which one do you want yeah

00:49:39.820 totally always always the skills same thing with legacy i can give you the business i can give you

00:49:46.980 the house. I can give you the 401k or I can give you the skill sets it took to achieve it. That's

00:49:55.120 what I think legacy is. Yeah. Yeah. And I love, I love it because it aligns perfectly with what I

00:50:03.380 believe allows us to live a life full of fulfillment as it, and it's what did we, how do

00:50:10.980 we serve those around us? Right. Are they better off? Did we pour into people? Did we help them

00:50:16.660 progress not through tools right but through learnings and and building confidence and

00:50:24.700 opportunity and man when we do that we build a legacy but we also live a great life yeah

00:50:31.120 yeah yeah definitely amen to that okay brother all right brother well it's home cup yeah a couple

00:50:37.420 action items you know join the iron council um if you want to this is what we do by the way this is

00:50:42.720 what we do in the iron council where a couple of questions came up around your vision and systems

00:50:47.200 in place to drive identity. That's what we do. Join us, um, at order of man.com slash iron

00:50:53.720 council. And then we have the war room coming up on the 16th at 8 PM. That's order of man.com

00:50:59.960 slash war room. I think we've got like 50 guys signed up for that already. And it's still

00:51:06.240 almost three weeks away. So that one's going to be a good one. I'm excited to have you teach that.

00:51:11.120 guys if you like kip a little more than me understandable i i think the last call we did

00:51:17.100 we had 125 so are we gonna are we competing here is that on one hand i want i want more than 125

00:51:25.340 on one hand on the other hand i'm kind of like i'd like around 120 ish 122 somewhere right in

00:51:31.320 there to maintain some dignity but hopefully we get a lot of you guys there i hope you're there

00:51:35.440 Well, you just announced that it was me.

00:51:37.020 So we'll see if the registries go from 50 to like 20, right?

00:51:41.680 People are like, ah, you know, I'll skip this month.

00:51:43.900 Yeah.

00:51:44.160 Yeah.

00:51:44.780 We'll go, like, take back their RSVP.

00:51:48.920 They're like, can you even do that?

00:51:50.200 Like, I don't even know if you can do that, but they're like, nevermind.

00:51:54.560 All right, guys.

00:51:55.360 Well, great questions today.

00:51:56.480 Appreciate you all.

00:51:57.400 Sorry about the audio.

00:52:00.100 I know it's a little, it's probably a little echoey on my end, but we make do with what

00:52:04.100 we have.

00:52:04.460 I think that I did a little video for the Iron Council members, and this is one thing that I talked about is just our ability to adapt as men.

00:52:12.680 It's amazing to me how easily some men will just crumble at the slightest sign of adversity and challenge.

00:52:18.460 It's like just adapt, evolve, get better.

00:52:21.680 That's what we got to do.

00:52:22.840 All right, guys, we will be back for our interview next week.

00:52:25.200 Until then, go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

00:52:29.460 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

00:52:32.120 you're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be

00:52:36.140 we invite you to join the order at orderofman.com

Order of Man - September 02, 2026

Identity After Job Loss, Raising a Daughter, and Overcoming Anger Issues ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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