Order of Man - November 10, 2026


JIM CAVIEZEL ｜ Pick the Right Fight. Stand on Principle

5 Disturbing Facts About Masculinity and Men ｜ FRIDAY FIELD NOTES

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 15 minutes

Words per minute

164.35

Word count

12,486

Sentence count

476

Harmful content

Toxicity

25

sentences flagged

Hate speech

18

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.200 Most men know what they're supposed to do and still look for all sorts of reasons as to why they should not do it.
00:00:07.820 Maybe it's too risky or too costly or someone with more credentials might say it's a mistake.
00:00:14.940 Today we're talking about how to make the hard call anyways.
00:00:18.800 That means finding your quote-unquote Michael Jordan talent, pairing it with this idea of a walk-on mentality and putting your spirit first.
00:00:28.500 We also get into programming your response before the moment arrives, choosing the right fight over the easy one, and why staying open-handed matters more than ever.
00:00:39.380 My guest has stood on that line more than once.
00:00:42.660 He turned down advice that would have protected his career so he could literally play Jesus Christ, nearly died twice in the years that followed,
00:00:51.200 and built a body of work on characters who choose to get involved when they could stay out of it.
00:00:58.980 His name is Jim Caviezel, and today we talk about what dying taught him about fear,
00:01:04.980 the moment he believes God called him to act,
00:01:08.380 why he says he doesn't get the easy movies but the right ones,
00:01:12.280 and what his newest film, Ghost Soldier, says about a man stepping up to protect people who can't protect themselves.
00:01:19.820 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time. You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
00:01:45.680 Gentlemen, welcome to the Order of Man podcast.
00:01:47.940 I am Ryan Michler, and I am so excited to be able to bring this conversation to you.
00:01:52.540 I grew up watching a movie called The Count of Monte Cristo.
00:01:56.360 A lot of you men probably did as well.
00:01:58.640 And I'm so honored to be able to have Jim Caviezel on the podcast today to talk about
00:02:03.920 not only that movie, but other movies, his time in Hollywood, and how he is standing
00:02:10.440 standing on principle when his career and his world often asks him to do something different.
00:02:19.980 Now, before I get into that conversation, also want to talk about some really good people and
00:02:23.960 good friends. That is my friends over at Montana Knife Company. I just reached out to the founder
00:02:29.380 and CEO, his name is Josh Smith, and sent him a picture that one of my friends sent me. He just
00:02:35.580 harvested his first deer and he used a Montana knife company knife that Josh gifted to me and
00:02:42.500 him to break the deer down. I sent it to Josh. He was so quick to respond. He said, thanks for
00:02:48.420 sharing. That's amazing. These guys are doing incredible things and their customer service,
00:02:54.420 their attention to detail, and the fact that they're making their knives all 100% in America
00:02:59.500 outside of Missoula, Montana is a story worth sharing. And also guys, it's a story worth
00:03:05.760 investing in, you know, on the back of midterm elections and believing in America, regardless
00:03:12.560 of what side of the aisle you sit on, it's important that we invest in America. And these
00:03:18.040 guys are doing it right. If you need a good knife in the field, in the kitchen, as an everyday carry,
00:03:23.660 I've got my Montana folding knife right now in my pocket.
00:03:27.940 I just broke down several deer on my hunt last week.
00:03:31.200 I'm leaving in two days for another hunt
00:03:32.840 that I fully anticipate using that knife again.
00:03:35.680 Guys, look no further than Montana Knife Company
00:03:38.020 and use the code ORDEROFMAN.
00:03:39.840 It's all one word, ORDEROFMAN at checkout,
00:03:42.880 and you'll save some money when you do.
00:03:45.420 All right, now let me introduce you to my guest.
00:03:47.360 As if you needed an introduction,
00:03:48.900 his name is Jim Caviezel.
00:03:50.300 he is an a-list actor known for plenty of roles that put his faith and conviction and
00:03:56.760 and sacrifice at the center he played college basketball until an injury ended that path
00:04:03.220 and then he committed to acting and broke out in the movie the thin red line he went on to star
00:04:09.820 in frequency pay it forward of course the count of monte cristo which i shared with you earlier
00:04:15.320 and then in 2004 he played Jesus in Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ which was one of the
00:04:21.560 highest grossing independent films ever made and then of course he later starred in five seasons
00:04:26.900 of Person of Interest and in 2023 the box office surprise Sound of Freedom which I'm sure a lot of
00:04:34.320 you guys have listened to as well or watched as well but in his newest movie Ghost Soldier
00:04:39.000 caviezel plays henry fitz fitzgerald he's a former green beret and weapons developer living quietly
00:04:46.300 off the grid when a powerful foreign corporation moves to take his hometown's land he is forced
00:04:55.020 back into action to defend his community but jim is a man who puts his money where his mouth is
00:05:00.520 and is a living reminder of the power of principle as he doesn't and never has 0.76
00:05:06.880 toe the line in a profession that bucks and alienates those who don't enjoy this one gents
00:05:12.780 jim is so good to see you i uh was so excited when your team reached out and uh i've actually
00:05:20.280 been trying to get a hold of you but your team reached out i'm like great yes let's do this man
00:05:25.040 it's it's so good to see you i'm glad you're on the podcast today thank you very much it's a
00:05:30.020 pleasure being here uh you know it took a a new movie ghost soldier coming out which i watched a
00:05:35.600 little bit of, and, uh, I got to tell you, I'm, I'm really excited about it, but even more maybe
00:05:40.840 excited about the movie. Like I'm, I'm actually very curious how you operate because you seem to
00:05:49.160 be somebody who, I don't think you, I don't think you intend to buck the system. I think you're a
00:05:55.440 man who actually just lives by his beliefs and core values. And I'm not sure that's as common
00:06:01.700 as we would like it to be in Hollywood.
00:06:04.640 But I could be completely wrong, so you tell me.
00:06:08.340 Well, I mean, if you look at the biblical stories,
00:06:13.600 like David, kind of a different kind of guy growing up,
00:06:18.780 and Moses, different kind of guy.
00:06:22.580 I don't think that's stopped.
00:06:25.360 I think that it has continued.
00:06:28.000 I think I've talked to a lot of men's groups,
00:06:31.700 and i said you know you you got to really follow your dreams um not to get too corny but
00:06:40.700 uh you remember the movie sound of music yeah of course the the that great uh song with the nun
00:06:51.640 when she sing uh um climb every mountain or at every stream follow every rainbow till you find
00:06:58.120 your dream a dream that will need all the love you can give every day of your life for as long
00:07:03.920 as you shall live that is what uh just brings me to tears when i hear that and it it it burns in
00:07:12.220 my heart and i don't if i'm not doing that in what i'm not doing if i'm not participating stuff
00:07:21.240 that makes my heart burn, it goes against that dream.
00:07:28.180 And we've lived in a culture now where, you know,
00:07:31.860 they've essentially castrated men. 0.79
00:07:34.780 And I don't think any woman, real woman, would want that for,
00:07:39.500 they weren't designed that way to be with a guy that is woke,
00:07:46.780 which is a joke, you know.
00:07:49.280 and uh and so you know i i go in and i hung out with navy seals and i didn't just hang out with
00:07:58.660 them i participated in a movie with with them many years ago um with ridley scott and he brought me
00:08:06.660 in and he said you know i'm you're basically a high-paid stuntman do you have any you know
00:08:12.480 hey did you play any sports and i said yeah i played college basketball and i really played
00:08:18.340 and um and there's a level there a leveler when you get to water um especially tying your feet
00:08:27.440 or your hands behind your back and uh getting the surf torture and the hypothermia but that
00:08:33.380 led to the passion of the christ being able to do something that physically you really can't do
00:08:39.940 um you're doing it but you want to you're going to quit and and i was so connected from my heart
00:08:46.060 there's no way in hell that that is ever going to happen and didn't matter what the devil did
00:08:52.100 you know he's like i'm going to take your career from you i'll take all that from you it doesn't
00:08:56.500 matter how about your life i've free to give i'm i'm okay with that because i just believed that
00:09:02.880 if I, I did my job, um, many people would come back to God. They would find God. Uh,
00:09:11.020 and that's why I asked, you know, I asked them, you know, Jesus, I said, I don't want them to
00:09:17.180 see me. I only want them to see you. And that's what you got. Hmm. How do you, how do you square
00:09:24.180 that? You know, you've got your new movie coming out, go soldier. Um, and like I said, I've watched
00:09:28.720 a little bit of it. Um, how do you, how do you square that when you say, well, I don't want them
00:09:35.620 to see me. I want them to see only you, God, Jesus Christ with your, I'm not trying to diminish
00:09:43.280 and you can correct me if I'm using the wrong word choice here, but as a, as a performer,
00:09:47.740 as an actor, as you portraying somebody else, fictional or non-fictional, how does that tie
00:09:54.920 your vision of seeing god well in this character he's a guy that is hiding uh creating using his
00:10:06.300 mind to create uh weapons of of things you've never ever seen you know he's a he was a special
00:10:13.560 forces but he's an albert einstein when he was or tesla when it comes to weapon systems you know
00:10:20.480 one against hundreds, and he can win with this technology that he's using.
00:10:28.660 But where he ties into God is that the people in the town are, you know,
00:10:37.720 he's a lone wolf.
00:10:39.520 He doesn't want to be seen or anything, but he has to come out
00:10:44.160 because his heart is moot, and he has to defend,
00:10:47.660 because they can't defend themselves like he can.
00:10:50.480 And so that's the good Samaritan in him.
00:10:55.040 And we, in life now, you know, they've been trying to separate us.
00:11:00.100 And that's another thing that I loved about this script is that they have to come together.
00:11:04.860 You know, when I'm in church now, everybody fist bumps, if that.
00:11:10.680 If you're a good Samaritan, you can't fist bump a guy lying on the side of the road.
00:11:15.280 You've got to reach out, open your hand, trust Jesus, I trust in you.
00:11:19.700 and lift him up we got to go back to the open hand i like that i've always thought the uh i mean i
00:11:27.740 look i i fist i probably have done it you know a dozen times in the last two days sure with buddies
00:11:33.040 but also i do like that it i mean there's there's an element of civility there's an element of
00:11:39.000 reverence i think behind like an actual handshake like you can tell a lot by a person when you shake
00:11:43.600 their hand do they do the limp fist do they like try to like dominate you when they shake your hand
00:11:49.380 uh or or can you like and there's a lot to be said about energy too can you feel their energy
00:11:55.240 what type of person this is when you shake their hand and can that person actually look you in the
00:12:00.420 eye so i like that i resonate with that and there's an element of of of god there which is
00:12:06.040 i'm i'm i'm not here to hurt you i want you to trust me i want and that and someone's saying i
00:12:13.920 I haven't shaken your hand in a while, and I keep it open.
00:12:17.400 And he thinks, and then, okay, I guess I can shake your hand.
00:12:21.680 And I just smile, look at him firm, and peace.
00:12:25.540 And that's the Christ in us.
00:12:27.660 The Christ that you saw in the movie is still here
00:12:30.640 because I didn't do it without him.
00:12:33.420 We did it together.
00:12:35.340 I look at myself really as the farmer.
00:12:38.400 I go in, and you get this, you know, you've got 100 acres.
00:12:43.920 and you're by yourself, and you go, oh, this is going to be hard.
00:12:47.080 You've got to go in, and you've got to lift all those boulders out, rocks.
00:12:51.540 Maybe you can get someone to help you.
00:12:53.160 Maybe you can't afford it, so you've got to do it your own.
00:12:55.660 And just days and days of just pulling rocks out.
00:12:58.780 But it's not done. 0.99
00:12:59.920 It's still going to get hard because you've got to put all the shit in there, 1.00
00:13:03.660 the manure, the stink. 0.99
00:13:04.960 And, you know, people will, you know, because you're going up, right?
00:13:12.580 You're not talking about your give up goals like drinking and drugs and things.
00:13:16.960 Most people say, hey, you know, good for you, giving up drugs.
00:13:21.320 But if we're going up, going up in society, going up, they don't like to, they're not going to encourage you in that because you're going to find your dream and they're not doing their dream.
00:13:34.020 And then put the seeds in and then you pray.
00:13:37.340 Why?
00:13:37.680 Well, because I need rain, but not too much.
00:13:40.740 You kill my crops.
00:13:41.680 And I need sun, but not too much, or you'll kill my crops.
00:13:45.160 You know, so there's an open hand with God, please, please, please help me.
00:13:50.940 And it might happen, it might go wrong, but Jesus, I trust in you.
00:13:56.440 Something else comes along, because they started there, and then the acting career started,
00:14:01.740 and I would never, ever dream that this wasn't my dream.
00:14:08.540 But when our Lord came to me, he was like, look deep.
00:14:14.700 If you look at yourself deeply, you'll know that this is what you were born to do.
00:14:20.240 And it was.
00:14:21.440 It was.
00:14:22.240 And he took me, you're going to have to trust me.
00:14:24.460 So when he took me to the U.S. Navy SEALs, and we were in the water, that was my first introduction to hypothermia.
00:14:32.720 And there was a guy on my right, and I love this man, Hashim Shalon Hash.
00:14:36.680 he's no longer with us anymore um and um but he was uh you know i look over at him i go how do
00:14:45.780 you tolerate this and he goes well we got a lot of contusions on our body and you know this uh
00:14:53.060 this this cold salt water is going to lift all this lactic acid out and i'll be able to run and
00:14:58.760 and then i i won't you know quit and i'll still be able to possibly fulfill my dream in being a navy
00:15:04.860 seal. I thought that was so beautiful. Well, anyway, I never forgot that when I was doing
00:15:09.720 the Passion. I had my shoulder dislocated and when they tied it up, I was in such pain.
00:15:19.260 And then I got a virus and I can barely breathe. But it all played into the film. I would eventually
00:15:26.960 be electrocuted. And, but there was a point where, uh, I got to feel like, well, looks like I'm not
00:15:35.700 going to make it. And, and it, it, at that moment, you know, you see the tears come out of the eyes
00:15:41.980 and it's like, man, it's been a good life. And, uh, and when I watched the movie, I, I weep,
00:15:49.940 my body's blue. Uh, I went far beyond everything I had to, you know, I had open heart surgery,
00:15:56.960 had two surgeries, including open heart. But I survived it, and I was able to, I was never
00:16:05.740 connected to fear. I was connected to a love that's so deep that I'd die trying. And I really
00:16:14.680 appreciate the Lord for allowing me to do that. But the thing was, what was the whole thing? Was
00:16:20.580 it about making a big bag of money? No, I didn't make a big bag of money on that movie.
00:16:26.060 I suffered tremendously
00:16:28.260 what I
00:16:29.960 what I was able to
00:16:31.300 I was able to find
00:16:32.320 the deeper meaning
00:16:34.380 of life
00:16:34.940 my search for meaning
00:16:36.380 my purpose
00:16:36.980 and
00:16:38.220 I had never stopped
00:16:39.800 and so
00:16:40.920 look
00:16:42.240 taking that
00:16:43.360 and going into this movie
00:16:44.880 Ghost Soldier
00:16:46.600 this guy
00:16:47.900 is a remnant of that
00:16:49.200 he has that
00:16:50.280 he
00:16:51.100 and a lot of these guys
00:16:52.440 I worked with
00:16:53.060 you know
00:16:53.340 they had this St. Michael
00:16:54.520 the Archangel medal
00:16:55.480 you know
00:16:56.720 And I said, well, what is that?
00:16:58.360 And they said, well, it was better than my lucky rabbit's foot, you know. 0.69
00:17:03.680 But they weren't, a lot of them aren't even as connected to, you know, the relationship that most Christians would say.
00:17:14.700 But allow for this guy, you know, to figure out where he's going to go in his life.
00:17:19.800 Because they sure certainly taught me something, which is they ain't going to leave you in a foxhole.
00:17:25.080 they're there they're going to fight and that that was me that was a big part of me now and
00:17:31.780 that's this character henry uh it's gerald he's a former green beret a a a uh operator at a very
00:17:43.080 very high level that develops these weapons his ideas is that even outnumbered we can beat you
00:17:52.360 That he ultimately has the ultimate stone that took down Goliath, and he is that stone.
00:18:01.300 Jim, do you feel like when you were talking about some of the challenges that you've been through your life and the various roles you've played, you kind of alluded to this.
00:18:13.380 Is death, physical death, something that you fear?
00:18:18.900 Is it something that on the opposite end of the spectrum that you're very excited or hopeful for?
00:18:23.940 Or are you neutral?
00:18:25.060 Like, where do you fall on that spectrum of your relationship with death?
00:18:28.960 That's a great question.
00:18:30.040 I've actually experienced it.
00:18:31.740 I died after the passion.
00:18:35.000 I went in for open heart surgery.
00:18:36.980 I came out and we had a malfunction.
00:18:38.960 And right here, that spot right there on my heart broke and I was dead.
00:18:46.860 I didn't have to breathe anymore
00:18:49.160 and
00:18:51.760 I knew I was dead
00:18:54.020 I felt it happen
00:18:55.180 and it was just so simple
00:18:57.100 Jim can I stop you
00:18:59.420 can I just stop you because I'm curious
00:19:01.200 when you said you felt it happen
00:19:02.960 physically or spiritually
00:19:05.120 like I'm very curious about that too
00:19:06.920 so keep going
00:19:07.940 I felt the break right here
00:19:10.380 and this is
00:19:13.280 where I think that
00:19:14.580 the, it's like the entry of where the spirit went into the heart, that Christ and I were one. And
00:19:22.440 it was right at this, this spot right there. Um, it, uh, broke and I was in great pain. Um, they
00:19:32.540 had, uh, after the surgery, I didn't have the, uh, I needed more, uh, uh, opiates to kill the pain.
00:19:42.340 Um, and literally I just, it was like an eggshell. It's so quick. It was like, uh,
00:19:50.660 it was like taking an egg and just cracking it open and it just cracked and, and the yolk came
00:19:56.080 out, I was dead. And I was, you know, as I'm talking to you, I'm seeing you. I see all of
00:20:05.740 them come in the room. Now, what I feel around me, I'm not leaving my body. My body is right there,
00:20:10.560 but I was dead and I was very well aware that I did not have to breathe anymore. I had no need
00:20:18.760 to breathe. Um, I wasn't suffocating nothing. It was, and, um, the, uh, the, the next part of it
00:20:28.040 was, is I felt the most peace and the most love around me. Every, it was like nothing, nothing
00:20:34.760 could scare you. When I went into surgery, I was scared. I, I, I had my brother-in-law at the time
00:20:41.960 was the offensive coordinator for the Dallas Cowboys and I had a Dallas Cowboys shirt on
00:20:45.980 and we were going in, um, we're going, walking, uh, going down into this, uh, room, uh, was doing
00:20:57.880 person of interest at the time. And, uh, this was, I, I, first surgery was in nine. Second one was
00:21:06.320 14, May 13th, 2014. That was the big one at Cleveland clinic. They saved my life. And, um,
00:21:13.980 uh but i had while when i was going into surgery i had i had that game face look on i was really
00:21:23.460 you know i was scared i i was calm i was very i was scared but um but i i trusted uh jesus i knew
00:21:33.320 if i didn't get this done right then i wasn't going to make it and you know um it was i almost
00:21:39.980 ran out of time right there but he
00:21:41.600 extended my life
00:21:42.940 and when I saw
00:21:45.840 people come running in the room
00:21:47.300 they had that fear in their eyes
00:21:49.820 I could hear the horn going off
00:21:51.920 and that
00:21:53.900 I could, you know
00:21:55.380 so this is where you hear
00:21:57.660 but when you're here, you just
00:22:00.120 hear everything, but it's not
00:22:02.020 necessarily have to be through your ear
00:22:03.880 anymore because you're not
00:22:05.520 these are just tools
00:22:08.060 It's a vessel, right?
00:22:09.500 It's a medium.
00:22:10.820 That's correct.
00:22:11.680 And now, but the soul is there.
00:22:15.040 I knew I was dead, but I'm still looking through what I think are my eyes.
00:22:19.440 But what happened is, later on, I asked them, I talked to them about it.
00:22:27.700 They said, your eyes were up and you were dead.
00:22:30.900 And we knew you were dead.
00:22:32.800 But I'm looking at you, just how I'm looking at you when I'm dead, which is probably like that.
00:22:39.420 Yeah, I was just looking at you just like this. But they they saw the dead man looking at them. And they, they brought me back. And so I went through that. And I, I know that I look at it like someday.
00:22:59.360 when i die there's a you know you have investments you have an annuity you know you invest because
00:23:07.380 someday you know uh you won't be that young guy you were and you think life's going to go on
00:23:14.740 forever and hopefully you have a retirement or something right an annuity the money that
00:23:20.640 continues to make money while you're not you're doing something else is it like you've had a if
00:23:26.760 you have an apartment complex. You pay that off, and eventually money just keeps coming in.
00:23:32.580 Imagine dying, and you have an annuity like The Passion. Jimmy Stewart did a movie called
00:23:42.240 It's a Wonderful Life. That is an annuity for me. He helped feed me, and I got to spend time
00:23:49.200 with Mr. Stewart at his house. I met him when I was a waiter and he, uh, he did a movie that,
00:23:55.940 uh, I don't have one of my movies over the mantle. I have his film. It's a wonderful life.
00:24:03.040 It's all my, I never took it down after Christmas years ago. I just kept it up. Um,
00:24:08.860 he flew 26 missions over Nazi Germany. He just won best actor and he wanted to serve his country
00:24:16.800 fighting one of the greatest evils there ever was.
00:24:20.700 And he dumped 26 flights. 0.76
00:24:26.000 He dumped mass munitions over Nazi Germany.
00:24:29.560 I didn't know that.
00:24:30.660 I had no idea.
00:24:31.900 Yeah, he flew the Liberator.
00:24:37.740 A double-tailed wing in the back.
00:24:39.900 A lot of people thought he was in the B-17.
00:24:41.760 and um he um he was the head of every wing command and one of the hardest things to be
00:24:52.020 on a wing command is you have to go into quiet silent united states we did all our missions
00:24:58.020 during the the day the brits did it at night they didn't have as many war planes as we did
00:25:04.760 So we went in the day and the problem is, is that when you are flying, everybody has to remain quiet.
00:25:14.620 But when the Luftwaffe come through or you have an 88 gun that hits, blows a wing off, the plane goes down and there's eight guys per plane.
00:25:25.960 You hear the screaming and that's what he heard most of his life.
00:25:31.600 Yeah. Wow.
00:25:32.640 so when he died uh i was uh i was very close uh i went to see him uh at his house um in beverly
00:25:46.100 hills i was just got the thin red line and um i talked to the maid and uh i gave him a card
00:25:54.840 and i said you know i'm doing this movie the thin red line in my life is taking off thank you for
00:26:00.980 everything you, you know, uh, that, that your, your encouragement, you told me to make good
00:26:07.380 movies and I did. And so those people kind of pass it on to you. But I always imagine when he
00:26:14.180 died, I was filming with Sean Penn and the brick, uh, in, uh, in the thin red line and we were doing
00:26:21.680 the brick scene. I think it was like July 7th or 8th, somewhere in there, uh, 1997. And, uh, um,
00:26:29.240 and and we uh so he passes away and i can just imagine jesus saying you did i know you think
00:26:40.820 maybe this movie or it's a wonderful life was your greatest film ever what you did with this boy i'm
00:26:46.640 going to show you what he's going to do we need to pray for him and that man is attached to all
00:26:53.580 of the souls that came through me and that's how we help each other along the way and i'm just
00:26:59.280 you know a movie i did a long time ago i'll pay it forward you know i'm just trying to pay it
00:27:06.220 forward for for other souls and that and when we tie into that deep deep spirit uh of that dream
00:27:14.180 As I go back to this sound of music, that's when it burns so hot, your eyes get sweaty.
00:27:25.540 It's so hot.
00:27:27.220 When you get into that place, you ain't afraid of anything.
00:27:33.560 Man, just a quick break from the conversation.
00:27:35.800 I hope you're enjoying it.
00:27:36.840 I think you are.
00:27:37.680 I am.
00:27:38.180 But I want to take a quick second because here's part of what I'm taking away from the conversation with Jim.
00:27:44.180 The man who makes a difference in the world usually isn't always the most talented guy
00:27:48.840 in the room.
00:27:49.840 He's the one who chose to get involved when it would have been easier to stay on the sideline.
00:27:55.040 And that's what our free series called The War Room is all about.
00:27:59.880 This is our live event series where we take the ideas you hear on this show and we put
00:28:03.960 them into work in your own life, your marriage, your kids, your business, and of course, the
00:28:08.660 man that you look in the mirror at every day.
00:28:11.340 No theory, no fluff, no BS.
00:28:12.840 you're going to get real frameworks, real conversations, and a room full of men who
00:28:17.720 expect more from themselves and won't let you settle for less either. This is entirely free.
00:28:23.620 It's something I do every month. We've got one coming up November 18th at 8 p.m. Eastern called
00:28:30.460 Winter is Coming, which is a metaphor for hardship that you'll inevitably face
00:28:35.120 and how to prepare yourself right now so it doesn't cripple you when it comes up.
00:28:39.660 uh most of the guys in in the world will hear an episode and a conversation like i'm having with
00:28:46.660 jim and they'll nod along and they'll bob their head up and down and they'll agree with things
00:28:51.080 that we're saying and then they'll change nothing about their life so if you're done being that guy
00:28:56.680 or you've never been that guy then join us in the war room head to order of man.com
00:29:02.540 slash war room that's order of man.com slash war room and uh we'll get you synced up we'll get you
00:29:10.560 rsvp'd and then we'll get you access to the war room on november 18th at 8 p.m eastern and hopefully
00:29:18.600 i'll see you in the room for now let's get back to it with jim how did you i mean you you had
00:29:26.160 mentioned earlier that that acting wasn't wasn't a dream of yours it wasn't your your initial path
00:29:32.040 I mean, you would play college basketball, correct?
00:29:34.440 College basketball.
00:29:36.840 And then I think the thin red line was your, if I understand correctly, was your breakout role.
00:29:42.440 I know, I think your breakout role from where I sit was the Count of Monte Cristo.
00:29:47.740 That's from where I am.
00:29:50.320 But then you met Jimmy Stewart, obviously an early mentor of yours.
00:29:54.360 Like how did you actually get into film and acting and Hollywood?
00:29:58.720 And how did that deviate from what you thought you were going to do?
00:30:02.040 Well, I applied to, uh, while I was playing college basketball, uh, I, I went to three
00:30:09.480 different high schools. And so, you know, I remember getting like a D in math and then I
00:30:15.360 took it the same class in college and I got an A in it. And, uh, I realized that I needed to,
00:30:22.860 um how that i had like dyslexic kind of you know stuff add hd tv i mean i had whatever it was
00:30:35.160 figure out all the abbreviations right all the all the letters you had all the letters
00:30:39.840 but i was given a level of uh of intelligence if i just gave myself a chance i realized that
00:30:46.540 you know i i didn't have the best short-term memory but i had a photographic long-term memory
00:30:52.000 and and and and i would start to you know kind of educate myself and a lot of things you know
00:31:01.960 i found that what i thought was really interesting you know uh might not be too interesting to the
00:31:09.820 people that i'm i'm talking with but if you hang in there over time you start to you know develop
00:31:17.100 like a good wine and uh um i i was very lucky to my wife carrie i dated probably five girls
00:31:26.320 all of them would have married me if i was wealthy and famous they all were worse of course 0.99
00:31:33.760 none of them did because they were like you're gonna be a bum you're a loser yeah you're a loser 0.99
00:31:38.920 like oh he's gonna fail you know uh he's not he's he's dreaming in the clouds but 0.99
00:31:45.900 And, you know, so I, at some point, I, you know, cried out to God and asked him what, you know, help me, please.
00:31:53.780 And I was in a movie theater and I had a little miracle where a presence came in the theater, was God.
00:32:00.940 And I felt that peace and that love like I did when I was dead.
00:32:07.500 And so I, he, and it was as if I was his only child.
00:32:13.080 And so that really was amazing that God loved me that much, that he knew me that well.
00:32:21.200 I had that experience.
00:32:23.100 One of the greatest moments of heaven that I've ever experienced in this life.
00:32:27.680 And he didn't waste-
00:32:28.160 What movie were you watching?
00:32:29.680 Do you remember?
00:32:30.540 Yeah, I was watching the movie Ghost.
00:32:32.960 Really?
00:32:33.760 Yeah, it was right in 1990.
00:32:36.460 Interesting.
00:32:37.360 And I had my basketball on the left.
00:32:39.440 and I was you know training and I had I had ankle surgery so I was rehabbing that and everything but
00:32:45.660 I was and I and I the presence came in and it was love and then peace and then the voice said I'd
00:32:53.640 like you to be an actor and then so I I didn't know anything about agents or managers or anything but
00:33:01.760 had you done any acting like any drama or commercials as a kid like any acting at all
00:33:08.280 Yeah, so I was in junior high, long story short, there was a play, it was a Christmas play. And there was a, it was a Christmas, nobody, none of the guys wanted that role because it was so many lines and it was, you know, I didn't want to do it.
00:33:26.220 And then the principal and the music teacher kind of rode me. I'm sure they probably thought something that this kid might have something, but I didn't see it.
00:33:38.280 And so I did the play, and there was a part in the play where there was this song, or there was a, the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.
00:33:52.140 And all that stuff was just memorized, just memorized.
00:33:57.840 And something happened in that moment where I just turned to everybody.
00:34:04.660 I was supposed to say it to the actor, and I just wanted to fill them in.
00:34:08.280 of of why he's my shepherd and the whole place was bawling crying you know i was just a little kid
00:34:15.680 and i it was like a voice from god just speaking through me i remember not not even thinking
00:34:23.840 anything i did was interesting afterwards people were like he should be an actor he should be a
00:34:29.500 priest two things i said to the teacher i don't want to be a priest and i do not want to be an
00:34:36.100 actor i want to be an nba basketball player i just want to play basketball exactly because you're a
00:34:40.500 young man so that's what that's what happened that was the first time that was i just thought
00:34:48.060 it was a fluke you know or something and then and it's not something i you know how it was the gift
00:34:56.300 was already there but i had to um i was too part of this i and i tell a lot of people first ask god
00:35:05.320 what you're supposed to do in your life that what is my purpose if you have a great saints were
00:35:11.900 purpose-driven life i'm doing my purpose but i did not think that i was supposed to do this
00:35:19.760 this wasn't reasonable to me it wasn't it was like it was pike dreams crazy dreams like
00:35:26.960 this is what but but it was what i was supposed to do so i look at like michael jordan michael
00:35:34.060 jordan was born to play the game of basketball he was born he's the greatest player there was
00:35:39.080 michael jordan you need to find your michael jordan talent so that's your purpose but michael
00:35:45.580 jordan is what people don't realize i know uh one of his teammates michael jordan wasn't just gifted
00:35:52.980 at being an incredible talent he had one other gift that most people don't know he was the greatest
00:35:59.900 walk-on mentality. He was everything I got, everything, everything to be a walk-on. He was
00:36:09.180 a perfectionist. So when you take greatest gift meets walk-on mentality, that becomes something
00:36:17.000 lethal. And that's kind of how I went about it. So now what would take me away from what I'm
00:36:25.980 supposed to be in this business don't do the passion of the christ uh don't this film ghost
00:36:32.380 soldier no no it's too much it's gonna who tells you that jim who who are the people that say those
00:36:37.940 things you don't have to be specific but like is there a contingent of people who are like
00:36:42.000 too risky like who is that well i've kind of gone to the bridge too far well i'll i'll give you an
00:36:49.420 example. I did The Passion. I came back and I go into a room and there's several of the people of
00:36:59.100 this business around. And I was a young actor at the time, but it was after The Passion and I wanted
00:37:06.740 to share with them how incredible this movie is going to be. And they would go, oh, that's really
00:37:13.360 nice, Jim. That's, that's great. I know, I know you think that you're just, you're, you're down
00:37:19.360 and stupid. And we knew so much more than you because we know it was three dead languages and 1.00
00:37:25.640 we know that it's stupid. And, and, and so you have a Noah's Ark and you're an idiot. You just 1.00
00:37:33.640 built this boat. Okay. That's what it was coming in. I had this big boat. It was a passion
00:37:38.620 and they were laughing and they were joking and it was like you know good good good job because
00:37:45.000 we know in the media that you're kind of and so we like to redirect you to other movies
00:37:51.340 and those movies are going to win you academy awards and if you're smart you'll uh so you'll uh
00:38:01.020 you'll get back on your the the dream that we have for you and i said no no something much bigger
00:38:07.860 than that i wasn't going to to adhere to what what they wanted for me i knew i know i know
00:38:16.220 how to be famous i know how to do that i know i look at your shows i study acting 0.52
00:38:25.800 you know and i think they were like you know keep your stuff shut up don't private don't 0.68
00:38:32.020 talk about any of this religious uh garbage and and i said yeah but um i like the scene in mel 0.93
00:38:41.600 gibson movie when he uh they they ask him and braveheart they said where are you going he says 0.92
00:38:48.620 i'm going to pick a fight that's the best that's one of the best lines ever of all time for sure
00:38:54.800 i'm gonna pick a fight don't be afraid to pick one man if it's a righteous one
00:39:01.260 Yeah, absolutely. Well, yeah, that, of course, I mean, you have good and evil, you know, if it's your, if it's your ego, that would be a bad one. Yes.
00:39:10.720 Right, right. There seems to be a growing contingent of – I don't know if this term resonates with you, but we'll just use the term because this is what people say, like A-list celebrities.
00:39:23.340 You know, I would put you in that category. I would put people like Chris Pratt in that category. I put individuals like Rob Lowe in that category who just came out with a trailer for his newest movie, The Confession, I believe is what it's called, where it seems that there's a Mel Gibson, of course, as well.
00:39:42.220 A growing contingent of A-list actors, celebrities, really railing against what we would generally consider the Hollywood ideology.
00:39:55.500 Would you agree with that?
00:39:57.660 Seems to be more coming out.
00:40:01.840 But I think that you will understand is that I didn't do it because they're doing it.
00:40:08.160 Right. Agreed.
00:40:09.480 You have to be a lone wolf.
00:40:10.760 you really this because um i remember when we were doing the the the training and they were
00:40:20.700 doing the buds uh training in the in the film and i would ask them like how did you know
00:40:27.000 um you know when you were making it through this uh he says if you get attached to somebody
00:40:34.680 and they they start getting that thousand yard stare when it you can almost feel that you know
00:40:43.300 when you see them eating in the chow hall my mindset is i'm gonna eat i'm gonna go back out
00:40:49.260 and i'm gonna get back on obstacle course and or take the log and move it over and boom do all this
00:40:54.780 stuff and you can see there in their eyes they've got that long distance and he's gone and if you're
00:41:02.300 attached to him because you you meet him you maybe came into the fleet with him and then he
00:41:06.780 you go to buds together and all of a sudden they get into that point you have to be willing to let
00:41:12.880 him go meaning he's that individual is met is the thousand yard stare means he's mentally tapped out
00:41:19.300 which means physically he will be soon you can see it and about 120 guys going in and there's
00:41:26.400 only probably going to be 19 20 maybe 25 usually less they're going to make it through you you
00:41:34.580 have to be at a level where um you know you're this is your dream and your the meaning of what
00:41:43.040 you're where you're supposed to go and uh you should have started probably earlier you know
00:41:50.320 working on things like start eliminating things, the television, the things that anything that
00:41:57.040 programs you outside that and start like I get my Bible and I start reading it, pondering David.
00:42:03.880 Once I got that picture in my head and I'm going through the hell that I'm going through,
00:42:08.700 the biggest difference between me and what they were going through is this.
00:42:12.640 No, that they're not preparing me for war, but God was preparing me for a different war.
00:42:18.760 I did not have a SEAL instructor. I was my own SEAL instructor. I was alone for 10 years. I knew that I didn't want to get up in the morning, many, many, many mornings, especially when I got into Juilliard and Juilliard reneged their agreement with me.
00:42:38.260 my dream was over and my manager called me and my acting teacher said you don't need juilliard
00:42:46.340 i wrote a goal on four years on my uh calendar and i i got up every morning at 5 30 so that was
00:42:54.940 the first thing it first was on my knees and it was a spirit spirit first spirit is the most
00:43:01.520 important it's a nuclear reactor it it it allows your physical and mental capabilities to do
00:43:08.080 things are beyond everything, but the spirit has to be fed, or the mental and the physical, they go
00:43:13.960 off. Most actors just do the mental and physical. I worked on the spirit, and the spirit was always
00:43:20.920 with God, always engaged, everything, every day and every way through the grace of God, I got to
00:43:26.400 get better and better. So I would go to Mass. I had a Mass at like 6.30 in the morning at St.
00:43:32.180 Monica's. I was there on my knees. Man is never so great as when he's on his knees in front of
00:43:38.020 god and that the night in my mind i i had a vision of a of a night i had a when i first came into the
00:43:46.300 business i had a dream where jesus was holding me don't worry i'll protect you but then when i got
00:43:52.100 the thin red line i had another vision and it was jesus me holding jesus a lamb and in any moment
00:43:58.860 in front of my friends i could kill him and then feed my friends and and and go in the wrong
00:44:04.880 direction and i didn't i protected him so we were always together and and then so early on i had
00:44:13.540 nothing and then i had too much and so i was just here so when they say oh you're a god i was like
00:44:20.760 no i'm just right here when you're low no i'm just right here and so i was able to maintain
00:44:27.460 and keep the ego in check because that really starts to rot you.
00:44:36.620 We all know the stories of people that were great,
00:44:41.580 but you're also going to be called very nasty names when you go in that direction.
00:44:48.740 And in 2004, when the movie came out, I thought, well, wait until you see this.
00:44:55.700 we had to wait two years you know after we finished in 2002 and which movie was this jim
00:45:03.260 passion passion and look it's it's the same thing with ghost soldier you know wait till
00:45:11.540 this film comes out because the film is it's not just a a movie where um i mean you'll see it when
00:45:21.620 you when you watch it i never tell people oh you gotta i mean i want you to go see my film
00:45:26.780 like i want you to see the passion like i wanted you to see count of monte cristo
00:45:30.720 or frequency or or person of interest or or sound of freedom these are all mega hits
00:45:39.420 but they're great because we we did the work we worked on the man's search for meaning in the
00:45:46.940 story, so many facets to it. Everybody's a different level, different time, different,
00:45:54.840 because we're all different makeup, and it's going to touch different people. But I think for men
00:46:01.180 and their sons, because this man protects this boy in this film using this technology, but he
00:46:08.800 chooses to do the hard thing, which is get involved. But to him, he wouldn't sleep well at
00:46:15.300 night if he didn't do the right thing. I felt the same way on the passion. If I turn this down,
00:46:20.680 I will make the worst mistake of my life. My lawyer and I, we would get up in the morning,
00:46:25.560 Frank Stewart, great, great man. He's no longer with us. But I met him while I was training for
00:46:31.180 with the Ridley Scott movie. And I didn't know how to swim. I mean, I swam around when I was a kid,
00:46:39.920 but I had to learn freestyle, butterfly, all that stuff. And I did. But Frank and I would get up in
00:46:48.440 the morning, he was my lawyer, and we'd go down to the ocean, and it was freezing cold. And part of
00:46:55.760 me was like, oh, God, I hate this, man. I can't, what am I doing? But I was challenging that thing
00:47:04.100 in me because I kept saying, when you're finished with this swim, you're going to feel like gazillions
00:47:09.900 of dollars your value is going to go through the roof that and that's what i'd focus on
00:47:14.380 but i knew the pain was coming but i was just this is great and i i will continue to do that
00:47:20.080 and he would walk down there we'd sit there and i go jeez he goes what i said well you know doing
00:47:26.340 this passion movie he goes look man you're gonna have a great career whether you do this movie or
00:47:31.980 not, it's not a deal breaker. You're going to be great. But there was something deep in me and he
00:47:42.160 goes, I think this is what he said. When you go back and turn around and you go, I threw away one
00:47:49.460 of the greatest gifts I ever gave. And I knew that if I took this, I probably wasn't going to
00:47:55.460 make the money, the power. They were going to say things about me. They're going to say, stay away
00:48:00.460 from him he's not popular that stuff still is out there you know we learn sure in school when
00:48:07.520 little kids who's popular or not they're usually not the greatest people they're not they they
00:48:13.920 live within they're popular within their culture and it's crap but if you want the dream and i did
00:48:20.500 i went for it and that right there that was the decision before i went into that ocean and 0.94
00:48:27.140 that was in the winter i remember because you get brain freeze for about 10 minutes then you
00:48:32.580 then your head anyone who knows that about this this is all true they'll go he's real deal then
00:48:38.160 your head gets hot your head gets hot and i'd always i remember too when we were swimming
00:48:44.140 you know there's dark waters down below and you know the mind goes what if there's a great white
00:48:51.240 shark or anything that's what i'm terrified of for sure here's the thing i i sit there and i and i i
00:48:58.040 say holy spirit god i would say god be with me holy spirit fill me jesus love me god be with me
00:49:04.720 holy spirit and it put this uh protection and the other thing too is when i was with the seal teams
00:49:10.840 they told me look if you ever get bumped a great white usually always bump you first but you have
00:49:17.340 to pre-program it in your head what you're going to do now i said what would you do oh i'd swim 0.97
00:49:22.160 for the shore and you just became food for that great white right you run they chase you're saying 0.81
00:49:27.320 hey i'm chum come and get me coming totally and he will eat you you have no chance so you have to 0.78
00:49:33.740 pre-program in your brain and your heart really and and then your brain tells it what to do so
00:49:40.300 it's first here so you have to be swimming and you're just calm and when that bump occurs you
00:49:47.200 attack it immediately now you might say oh my god what am i doing i'm taking on a 4 000 pound
00:49:52.660 fish here you know but you reap and he immediately goes oh he's a predator like me i must go so you
00:50:00.500 just saved you ever been bumped never been bumped but i've been down in the cages in south africa i
00:50:07.200 went down and how was that and they always come up and they try you every single time we we would
00:50:13.440 throw out it was a great white is that what is that what you saw great whites yeah and some of
00:50:18.020 them are white sharks they're big but they're not great now the great ones i mean we're talking
00:50:24.560 about when they open their mouth up you can swim inside and and whole i mean you could just swallow
00:50:31.680 you whole they're that big it would be like looking at a brahma bull a little bit bigger
00:50:37.220 fatter. And, and they're, they're just, you can't believe what's coming at you. And even when you're
00:50:44.820 in that cage and, and, uh, they are, uh, um, I've learned so much about, about them, but let's say
00:50:54.500 when you throw a head out there, he will come out and he'll bump it and swim away, come around.
00:51:03.580 and then you just keep playing like a dog and eventually he will come from from above from
00:51:09.840 down below and just come up and take it from you but they will always bump every time so
00:51:16.180 a lot of people that you you know you hear oh he was uh eaten alive by a shark or whatever we found
00:51:23.980 is he probably swam or he or she swam away splash splash splash when you splash splash splash what
00:51:31.080 are you doing he has all these activating all that you're exciting him and if you were to hit
00:51:37.620 but you have to pre-program that in your head you have from here and now do you do you ride
00:51:45.040 motorcycles at all no no i know i mean a couple times but it's not it's not a thing i've done
00:51:51.540 much of at all okay here okay so here's what a navy seal would teach you if you were going through
00:51:57.480 class you'd see a guy uh coming and he comes out of the airplane and he goes to his death
00:52:05.080 he died why am i showing that to you i'm showing that to you so his mistake now is your mistake
00:52:13.220 and you don't live what he did so you never make the same mistake he did he did not pack
00:52:18.340 a chute properly if you take care of your equipment your equipment takes care of you
00:52:23.560 if you are riding your motorcycle and someone is inside your zone he's already hit your bumper
00:52:31.500 you have to in your mindset it's it's very much like a basketball i don't play where the guy is
00:52:40.840 i play where he's going to be i'm going to dunk that ball and when he comes in he's going to meet
00:52:46.260 it if i'm a quarterback and i i'm sitting there i throw the ball where you were by the time
00:52:53.260 the ball gets to you, you're already gone.
00:52:57.060 It's like a Wayne Gretzky quote, right?
00:52:58.840 Play where the puck's going to be.
00:53:00.880 There you go. 0.82
00:53:01.620 The Soviets actually started that a long time ago 0.86
00:53:05.880 where they were doing the figure eight and circle
00:53:09.060 because the guy that created the Soviet hockey,
00:53:15.780 they used to be in the Canadian would be like a line.
00:53:19.540 Gordie Howe would be sitting here
00:53:20.780 and he'd decide to hit that guy or that guy.
00:53:22.820 essentially so one-on-one Gordie Howe would be a better or Wayne would be a better hockey player
00:53:29.400 but then once you start to add two it starts to lean more towards the Russian side and especially
00:53:36.440 three because they play they're playing like this and a lot of the hockey now is this is what you
00:53:42.580 see um so i i uh as a as an actor uh or filmmaker um because as an actor you you get better you get
00:53:56.440 better and then you start to go i would put the camera here why don't we do this i've because
00:54:01.780 i've seen that before why not well because i don't want to be like them i want to do something
00:54:07.480 differently. So you look at Ghost Soldier, and I said, there's an element to this guy,
00:54:14.500 and this is a guy that he has to come out of where he came from and to meet humanity from God,
00:54:23.440 to risk everything he has to save them. What do I have to offer? I have a technology,
00:54:28.580 And I also have a deep sense of probably, you know, a fatherhood, a brotherhood to protect, to, to, to, and, and, but does he know God the way I know him? No, but he's on his way there. There's something there.
00:54:50.160 and that's what makes a film the difference between wow look at those explosives that are
00:54:56.860 going off in front of me and just leaning back and watching a movie or being like this and watching
00:55:04.000 film like i like you would have been in monte cristo people thought absolutely that film was
00:55:10.340 there were about three swashbucklers that came out before that they were terrible they were just
00:55:15.900 touching swords you know doing this just dumb you don't fight that way and our film was okay
00:55:24.860 let's go into fencing training you know sparring boom everything um learning how to do that and 0.55
00:55:31.260 guy and i spent enormous enormous amount of hours doing that and developing our own style our own
00:55:36.520 feel the dynamic between you two was like i mean it's it's it's one of my favorite movies like it's
00:55:44.040 incredible to see to see the dynamic between you two to see what you've done to see how but it also
00:55:50.540 underscores like i'm not interested in cheap thrills like cheap thrills are easy from from
00:55:57.160 where i sit like i'm not saying it's doesn't cost money it doesn't take thought or any but like i
00:56:02.260 don't want cheap thrills i want something that's compelling which i think is why your movies do so
00:56:06.680 well is because men are like yeah this is compelling like i'm inspired i walk away being a better human
00:56:12.280 being after watching a film that you that you're in they you know a good cook somebody but my
00:56:21.080 mother-in-law made me a nice bowl of chicken soup and i tasted it and she goes needs more salt and i
00:56:27.640 go just a little bit you know just don't get um you know you when you're looking at it and and
00:56:36.520 And feeling, again, you have the story of the heart, and then you have the mental, the physical.
00:56:50.240 I try to think of those three things.
00:56:52.040 If it was a pyramid of success, John Wooden, I would say that the first has got to be the heart.
00:57:01.360 and um one of the things that you know guys that i worked with
00:57:05.660 um always a lot of them had the saint michael madelon and i said that's kind
00:57:10.880 of cool i think he would have that and then
00:57:13.160 uh chris papisadero who's a green beret wrote the script and i knew
00:57:18.880 immediately this guy was a real operator you could tell
00:57:22.960 he just and and there was something there i mean we're talking about
00:57:27.400 professional writers and they wrote scripts and he wrote it and it was just on a whole other world
00:57:33.540 and um and i know guys he knows guys and he wears the michael medal and i said i think that should
00:57:40.180 be in the story somehow and then randall wallace came in who wrote braveheart randall's a good
00:57:47.400 friend he's been on the podcast what an incredible human yeah he's a great dude i love him but i
00:57:54.580 think he has the same kind of feel um that you know i was looking for and pulling a guy out and
00:58:03.700 of his lone wolfness to engage with you know helping a kid but his father was killed someone
00:58:13.340 who i'd served with and so it forced me to make a decision and and uh and we're in that
00:58:21.560 moment right now you know and um and michael the archangel is a great is a great uh understand
00:58:29.500 you know this is an angel that was a lower ranking angel that how it went was god had
00:58:38.320 the most beautiful angel um lucifer i've read some of the traditions of him he was unimpressed
00:58:46.240 by god lucifer he didn't defy him never did anything but he just unimpressed the rest of
00:58:54.020 the angels were just so overjoyed with god so god brought him closer that he will exemptify his
00:59:01.640 light into the universe such like a child's heart so that he would know how much he's loved
00:59:06.960 so so he was the most beautiful angel the angel of light lucifer lucent and then that's interesting
00:59:16.020 i never made that correlation interesting yeah so then then uh then this the tradition goes is that
00:59:21.220 when god was going he revealed his plan to the universe you know that uh there's going to be
00:59:30.640 stars and what are those and then i'm going to make a planet earth and would it have water what
00:59:36.560 are what are fish they were fine with all of that what are what are what's a four-legged creature
00:59:42.820 You know, oh, okay, we're fine with that.
00:59:45.460 But then I'm going to make man out of my own image.
00:59:48.160 Whoa, what is that?
00:59:49.660 Who are we to you?
00:59:51.440 And I will send my son into the world to save them when they go astray.
00:59:59.640 And Lucifer now is like, they say pride go before the fall.
01:00:05.280 Actually, it was envy.
01:00:06.580 He envied him.
01:00:07.720 You have something closer than me.
01:00:10.080 And this is where he would say, and it goes on further, but I'm just summarizing.
01:00:13.880 He says, he envied it.
01:00:15.780 And he said, I will not serve him.
01:00:17.760 I will not serve.
01:00:19.080 And this lower ranking angel, think of David, right?
01:00:23.480 David, his own father didn't think much of him.
01:00:27.040 He had, I don't know, eight sons and dressed him up to the dines when Nathan goes in and
01:00:32.640 says, one of your sons is going to be the head of Israel, this prophet Nathan tells
01:00:36.480 him this.
01:00:37.440 So he goes in.
01:00:38.340 I think it's Nathan.
01:00:39.180 Maybe it was the wrong prophet.
01:00:40.680 Anyway, I'll be corrected by that.
01:00:42.820 Anyway, where's David?
01:00:44.920 He meets all of the sons.
01:00:47.560 He says, none of them will be the head of Israel. 0.87
01:00:49.880 Maybe it's Jeremiah. 0.69
01:00:51.260 Anyway, he goes, he says, oh, he's some sheep herder out back. 0.98
01:00:57.380 So Michael's like that lower-ranking angel, and he comes up out of nowhere, 0.95
01:01:02.140 and he stands to the greatest angel there ever was at the time.
01:01:07.580 And he says, you won't talk to my father this way.
01:01:10.740 And David does the same thing when Goliath, his beast, you know, the giant,
01:01:17.580 and, you know, the Philistines, they had taken the giant, you know, cliff here,
01:01:24.580 and they were hanging out there hoping that Philistines would disperse, but they wouldn't.
01:01:29.120 And Goliath basically says, I know how to get him out.
01:01:32.080 If they love their God, they'll defend him. 0.99
01:01:35.440 So he comes out and he says, your God sucks the big one. 0.99
01:01:38.080 And David freaks out. 0.99
01:01:40.520 The 16-year-old kid, he goes up to his leaders, tells them they can't do this.
01:01:44.600 He says, well, you know, what are we going to do?
01:01:47.940 They're going to kill us if we go and defend this.
01:01:50.460 And he goes, I'd rather be dead, essentially. 0.95
01:01:52.720 I'd rather be dead than take our father this way.
01:01:56.820 And he was like a father to him.
01:01:59.800 And they didn't even, Jews at the time never considered him like that. 0.71
01:02:04.460 But David was like, you don't talk to my father that way, you know, and cuts him down, cuts him down, warns him, you know.
01:02:14.140 You see that statue of David?
01:02:16.280 It's like final warning. 1.00
01:02:18.020 You're a dead man. 0.99
01:02:19.880 Puts it right. 1.00
01:02:21.760 And the armor was like here, cross his nose. 0.60
01:02:26.020 He had to hit him right there.
01:02:28.000 I mean, it's the most unbelievable.
01:02:29.560 But the fact that this God is saying, look how much my child loves me.
01:02:35.760 And I felt the same way when I was doing the Passion.
01:02:39.360 I wanted the world to know how much I loved him.
01:02:42.940 I love him.
01:02:44.720 This is the most important thing.
01:02:46.740 I love him.
01:02:47.880 And when St. Paul says, to live is Christ, to die is gain, that's fine.
01:02:52.320 What is the devil going to do?
01:02:53.580 Poof, he's nothing to me.
01:02:55.540 You know, a warrior is right here, right?
01:02:57.980 a regular, he's right here. He's, I'm a warrior. I'm, I'm, I got a, I'm David. I got the fire of
01:03:05.280 God inside my heart. And so think of in ghost soldier, you have this man and he says, Oh,
01:03:12.260 the devil is over there. What did the sheep do? They run, they go, Oh, don't look. Don't look.
01:03:19.040 I go where kill. I have it in me to kill him every single time because what greater is in me that is 1.00
01:03:26.540 in this world and i believe to my core more than hollywood more than our government or the world's 0.96
01:03:32.580 governments i believe deeply and i wanted the world to know this and and so when you go well
01:03:38.460 what happens if you get whacked what it and the next moment i'm going to be with my creator my
01:03:44.840 maker in in a place we're all eventually going to end up which is we're all going to die at some 0.78
01:03:51.640 point. I mean, unlike you, I know I'm going to die someday, but I lived it. I fought the fight, man.
01:04:00.680 I had this experience. You, you actually drew this out in me. I had forgotten until you said
01:04:05.740 it, but you talked about being in that theater, watching ghost and feeling the presence of him
01:04:11.400 and him wrapping his arms around you and saying, you know, I've got you. And in 2003, I'll be
01:04:17.040 brief here, but in 2003 I was in, uh, I believe at the time I was in Fort Carson, Colorado and we
01:04:25.520 were about a week or two weeks out for leaving for Iraq. And I had a, a really, a moment. No,
01:04:34.520 I'm sorry. We were in, yeah, I think that's where we were anyways. It doesn't matter.
01:04:39.140 I had this moment of fear, like this, like really intense fear about what we were going to do in
01:04:44.520 Iraq. And I was pretty distraught at the time. I've not shared this publicly. And I've never had
01:04:52.840 a closer experience to God than I did in that moment. I remember I was in a room very similar
01:04:58.880 to this, actually. The guys who were in the same room with me had gone out for the evening
01:05:03.440 and I was distraught. And I had this, I don't want to call it a vision or an, I don't know
01:05:11.020 what to call it but i could feel his presence i could feel his arms wrapped around me like i got
01:05:17.320 you it's gonna be okay i've got you you're under my watch all is okay and i can't articulate
01:05:25.180 i can't use words to describe it but i had it and i can't deny it and i haven't shared it publicly
01:05:33.120 ever i don't think probably a handful of people know about it um it reminded me when you talked
01:05:39.820 about that how close we are if we would just listen and i think in that moment i really was
01:05:45.380 pleading for safety at the time for myself for for my family while i was gone it's pretty powerful
01:05:52.900 and i'm glad you brought that up in me because uh that was a good experience it was a really
01:05:57.260 good experience wow that's beautiful i love that i love the image of what you explain it's like
01:06:06.420 my arms are around you you know god's he knows what we need too boy yeah it's uh
01:06:15.700 oh it's you know there's no way uh there's no way that i could ever come up with these
01:06:25.780 characters and and the films uh they're really from him they're always seems like these
01:06:35.840 dysfunctional things i don't get the easy movies i get the right movies i get the hard ones but
01:06:43.240 the right movies i love what you said earlier too uh about that the protagonist is choosing
01:06:52.500 to get involved right he's not yeah maybe thrust into it by circumstance but we we we all are
01:06:59.840 confronted with circumstance, but he chooses to get involved. And I think that's something that
01:07:06.300 a lot of men resonate with, with you, with the characters that you portray with the movies that
01:07:12.040 you, that you have is that it's inspiring. It's like, I don't have to do that, but I'm going to
01:07:18.040 do it because that's what's required of me. And I think that's why I resonate so much with
01:07:22.480 the work that you do and who you are as a human when we did um monte cristo there was great lines
01:07:31.560 in there god will give me justice you know and it's alexander demas and he uh
01:07:41.040 when that film was sold they never used any of the type and i wish they would have
01:07:48.600 i think pick more people would have come you know that roger birnbaum and gary barber
01:07:55.340 they are on spyglass they had a film called the six cents which is a great film
01:07:59.780 um and it was i think it did like 670 million dollars at seven dollars a ticket and it was just
01:08:07.960 huge and when their other film came out which is count monte cristo did 80 million dollars
01:08:15.040 that's good it's respectable but it uh gary barber i ran into him at sony and he goes
01:08:22.620 our biggest film ever jim you're in it i said monte cristo he said yeah so it was the tortoise
01:08:30.860 and the hare monte cristo just kept going and going and going and it really is you know it is
01:08:37.540 it is about a man's search for meaning you know who am I in man and everything like that
01:08:47.160 great when you you know you go out and hunt you know you get connected to the earth and the ground
01:08:53.480 and just did the the animal instinct of that a lot of guys never experience in hunting
01:09:02.920 um but also that presence of um sound you start hearing things sensing things that
01:09:13.280 as a hunter a lot of people have no clue uh when you're sitting there and you've you know
01:09:21.480 have your your gun or your your bow on something and you can feel you can't move and this starts
01:09:31.240 to happen and your heart is pumping so hard it almost feels like you're a toad and it's doing
01:09:37.680 this and yeah for me it's shaking right like the adrenaline just coursing through my veins and i'm
01:09:43.420 like i i used to think oh i'm cold no it's not the cold shivers that's my adrenaline like coursing
01:09:49.580 through my veins yeah one of my good friends uh who's world-class hunter he uh hunted literally
01:09:59.120 he uh got done and he face planted he had so little water he was so enthralled in what he
01:10:08.140 was doing and literally face planted broke his teeth everything wow lack of water tired everything
01:10:15.380 but he was that uh so engaged for that long for that many days in the cold and everything like
01:10:23.120 that. I just, he, I never forget him telling me, he says it was like the ground came up and hit me
01:10:31.200 in the face and I didn't realize I had gone face planted. Yeah, it's incredible. Jim, I really
01:10:40.020 appreciate you taking some time with us today. I'm very excited for the release of the movie
01:10:43.460 Ghost Soldier. I'm very honored to be able to have this conversation with you because I've seen your
01:10:49.740 characters. I've seen who you play and who you portray. And I've also seen how you show up from
01:10:53.920 afar, how you show up in real life off the screen. And I continue to be inspired by you both on and
01:11:01.440 off the screen. And what an honor and a treat for me selfishly to have you be able to have a
01:11:06.800 conversation with me, man. I'm excited about your movie and I'm excited about what you're doing in
01:11:10.460 the world. Thank you. And you're with your boys, right? My oldest, my oldest son is with me. My
01:11:17.940 second son doesn't like to hunt. He says, dad, I don't like to be cold. I don't like to be tired
01:11:23.120 and I don't like to be bored. And I'm like, those are three really legitimate reasons not to hunt.
01:11:28.500 And my youngest son, he loves to hunt with me as well, but I'm with my oldest. He just graduated.
01:11:33.420 So our hunts are going to be few and far between moving forward. So I'm taking full advantage of
01:11:38.300 it. In your life, in your life, you're giving him a gift right now. It's an impression of who you
01:11:46.540 are this is like this is as much as this is to you in the future there'll be a time when he
01:11:54.400 remembers he'll record everything there are moments in my life when I sit there and I say
01:12:00.680 in the moment I was having it I said this is one of the greatest moments of my life
01:12:05.700 I remember one when I was 17 years old like that so you know you're doing a cool thing
01:12:12.020 can you share that moment with us when you were 17
01:12:15.080 i was uh i was with my father in a car i had just lost the state championship in foul shooting
01:12:26.500 i by one free throw i i shot out of my mind and i missed this guy didn't miss any and neither did i
01:12:35.060 he missed before and i remember driving back from all the way across the state and my dad would say 0.97
01:12:44.800 something and it'll make me feel better and i'd sit there and then i go god damn it you know
01:12:51.260 all the way home never never forgot it and all of a sudden on the radio they say and i told 0.84
01:13:01.660 uh detlev shrimp this i said that he played in the nba played for the he was an nba all-star
01:13:08.360 fantastic basketball player played against the chicago bulls in 96 anyway yeah he played for
01:13:15.140 the sonics at the time but he was uh he was in high school they said the great detlev shrimp
01:13:19.700 is playing from centralia high school i said dad can we go and the coolest thing he said he says
01:13:28.000 if you stop bitching about missing a bell shot you'll go you forgot that it was the coolest
01:13:35.140 saying i went and watched watched him play and and i told detlef that years and years later
01:13:40.540 that's amazing it's funny because it's the moments that i mean sometimes you know like i'll remember
01:13:47.740 this moment forever and sometimes you don't know it in the moment and then you recall it you're
01:13:52.480 like oh yeah that was pivotal that was that was pivotal for me that's interesting i'm glad you
01:13:57.700 shared it thank you for sharing with us jim i appreciate you thanks for uh thanks for taking
01:14:02.880 some time. I know your time's valuable and I appreciate you sharing it with me and the guys.
01:14:06.980 Thank you very much. All right, gentlemen, there you go. My conversation with the one and only
01:14:12.920 Jim Caviezel. What an incredible opportunity for me, but also what an incredible human. I mean,
01:14:19.120 you can hear it in his voice. You can hear it in his conviction. I did this one while I was on a
01:14:25.580 hunt because it was such a great opportunity to talk with somebody that I've personally been
01:14:29.420 inspired by, not only with his roles that he plays, Edmund Dantes on the count of Monte
01:14:35.380 Cristo, of course, Christ and the passion of Christ, but just an incredible human being
01:14:42.620 off the screen.
01:14:43.720 And I hope that message came through and I hope you're walking away inspired to do more
01:14:48.220 in your life.
01:14:49.620 Guys, make sure to connect with him on Instagram, connect with me on Instagram, take a screenshot
01:14:55.220 real quick, tag it, post it, share it.
01:14:58.200 Let me know.
01:14:58.660 i'll repost it on my end because i really want to make sure that social media is social
01:15:03.220 i hate when when people you know they talk about their social media profiles but you can't ever
01:15:09.100 hear back from the person you'll hear back from me so post it up and then also make sure you check
01:15:13.780 out the war room head to order of man.com slash war room november 18th 8 p.m eastern winter is
01:15:21.740 coming fellas all right i'll be back on friday we're going to be talking about the one thing
01:15:27.500 that men want out of a relationship
01:15:29.040 and the one thing that women want out of a relationship.
01:15:32.360 And I think it'll help serve both you
01:15:34.220 and the lady in your life.
01:15:36.960 Make sure to subscribe, leave a rating and review,
01:15:39.800 connect with Jim, go to the war room,
01:15:41.840 and we'll see you all on Friday.
01:15:43.880 Until then, go out there, take action,
01:15:45.840 and become the man you are meant to be.
01:15:48.180 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.
01:15:51.180 If you're ready to take charge of your life
01:15:52.780 and be more of the man you were meant to be,
01:15:54.840 we invite you to join the order
01:15:56.520 at quarterofman.com.