Order of Man - Public Confrontation, Winning as a Step-Dad, and Building Boundaries for Adult Kids ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

00:00:00.160 Self-deprecation is amazing.

00:00:02.200 You know, maybe we had some problems in the past

00:00:03.960 or you know my reputation or whatever.

00:00:06.240 And I bump into the store and I'm like,

00:00:08.080 oh, Kip, like, oh, it's good to see you.

00:00:09.960 You know, I just got back.

00:00:11.600 I've been away for 20 years, I just got back.

00:00:13.320 Man, I was such a screw up when I was a kid.

00:00:15.640 I'm so glad to be back and like in a different head space.

00:00:18.920 That's so diffusing.

00:00:20.640 Or if somebody says, I remember you.

00:00:23.560 I was like, yeah, I remember me too. 0.99

00:00:26.640 I was such a jerk back then. 0.96

00:00:28.720 self-deprecation is huge it's so diffusing and i promise if you have enough of that just 0.99

00:00:35.720 lightness and casualness about it that stuff goes away man

00:00:40.020 kip what's up man so good to see you uh man we had a great friday call in the iron council today

00:00:47.860 like that was that was awesome like it was kind of a little bit off script uh we had we had a

00:00:53.320 couple guys talk about some issues that they're personally dealing with from PTSD to not being

00:00:59.440 able to have a sense of, um, I don't know, a sense of meaning and purpose in life directionless a

00:01:05.560 little bit. So it was awesome. I love calls like that. Yeah. Testament of what the iron council

00:01:12.700 is all about, man. I mean, we've said it for years, right? The power of the conversation that

00:01:17.720 we get to have on our individual battle teams, as well as the conversations that we have on

00:01:23.300 friday afternoons are just they're rejuvenating for me um and they're about things that matter

00:01:29.260 right and you know we know this about guys it's like how often do they have these kind of

00:01:34.260 conversations um and they don't why because they're surrounding themselves typically around

00:01:40.440 individuals that aren't like-minded that are unwilling to have that same conversation i think

00:01:45.400 so anyway so it's really unfortunate what do you think yeah it is unfortunate what do you think is

00:01:50.480 the biggest benefit to not just the iron council but having a good band of of men around you now

00:02:01.060 i know a lot of guys will say well surround yourself with like-minded men accountability

00:02:05.480 and that's all true but like what is the benefit of that like let's go deeper why is accountability

00:02:12.040 important why is being around like-minded men important and what do you think is the biggest

00:02:16.360 benefit of of building having building tapping into a band of brothers i think it's two things

00:02:26.600 primarily i think the number one is possibility things become possible when you see it done

00:02:34.100 and sometimes when you read books it's hard to relate right because it's like well i'm not

00:02:40.180 Goggins. I wasn't a Navy SEAL. Like, how do I relate to that? But when I see someone similar

00:02:45.940 to me progressing in certain areas, that creates possibility for me to consider for myself. So I

00:02:53.860 think number one is possibility. I think the number two is that you're not alone in it.

00:02:58.180 Hold on. Before you get to number two. We got to work the angles a little bit here and

00:03:04.600 like keep people on the edge of their seats um when you talk about possibility would you say

00:03:11.000 that's synonymous with hope or is that something different hope yeah it's hope

00:03:18.560 i love the relatability because a lot of the times we get

00:03:23.020 one of the the common messages that i receive and i'm going to talk about it from a couple

00:03:30.900 different angles is guys like well i just want to hear from regular guys well you know what you

00:03:35.840 don't listen to regular guys okay i'm sorry like the statistics bear this out if i if i have uh

00:03:43.680 you mentioned david goggins if i have david goggins on everybody will tune in 10 times that

00:03:50.180 of of steven schmuggins who is also a navy seal that you've never heard of before so we got to

00:03:59.180 stop saying that. Number one, number two, I also get it. I understand you want to have somebody

00:04:05.720 who's relatable, somebody who's like you, somebody who's a little closer to what you're doing.

00:04:10.880 So I, you know, I, I see both sides of it. Totally. Totally. All right. Well, and one is

00:04:17.440 inspiring, right? Their, their story might be more inspiring. And so I think it's a little

00:04:22.620 bit different, but, but I don't, I don't know, man. Do you think, I actually don't

00:04:26.720 Don't you think it's more inspiring?

00:04:27.440 Do you think it's more inspiring?

00:04:27.720 Do you think it's more inspiring?

00:04:27.740 Do you think it's more inspiring?

00:04:28.700 Yeah, absolutely.

00:04:30.680 Okay.

00:04:31.700 Yeah.

00:04:33.400 Have you, any, okay.

00:04:38.320 Anytime somebody wants to change in their life, they need to be inspired to change.

00:04:44.040 Yeah, I didn't word that right.

00:04:47.400 How do I say this?

00:04:51.480 I don't know.

00:04:52.260 Like, I, I don't know if it's the same level.

00:04:56.040 Um, I think there, maybe there's levels of inspiration, right.

00:05:00.380 And we might be inspired by, by talking heads, by influencers, by these people that have

00:05:06.920 done great stuff.

00:05:09.560 It might be hard to see what's possible because there's such a, we perceive a gap between

00:05:17.060 what they've accomplished versus where we're at.

00:05:19.560 and so maybe the inspiration isn't as sticky as if i'm inspired by someone that is more relatable

00:05:28.140 than me i i don't know like it's interesting it's interesting it doesn't matter what you do

00:05:34.100 somebody's not going to resonate with it so i'll give you an example yeah um we have david goggins

00:05:40.360 on the podcast let's say or i don't care whoever you're inspired by jordan peterson andrew huberman

00:05:45.940 jocko willink matthew mcconaughey i mean these are guys we've had on the podcast

00:05:49.860 so on one hand a guy might be deeply inspired by what goggins has to say

00:05:56.940 and another man might say well i don't like this guy

00:06:00.360 and one guy might be inspired by somebody who they've never even heard of or they might be

00:06:09.340 inspired by watching a movie and and that's a fictional character and you know it it drives

00:06:19.400 them towards towards action you know so like i'm not going to say what's going to be best for

00:06:24.660 everybody or that everybody has to be inspired by certain things we're all inspired by different

00:06:30.440 things if you watch a movie and you feel inspired to live your life better awesome awesome if if

00:06:36.660 you listen to david goggins and you know like that's a guy who's going to inspire you awesome

00:06:40.460 if you need somebody who's closer to where you're at like me or you kip i mean we're average guys

00:06:46.780 ordinary guys and that's inspires you just to be a little better cool i'm good with that that's

00:06:53.740 great i don't care how you're inspired but ultimately i think to your point is inspiration

00:06:59.220 is not enough like i could listen to a song on the radio and be like oh that's cool i feel good

00:07:04.380 and then get home and not do anything so ultimately it's about what you do with it

00:07:09.700 yeah yeah which i think brings to the second thing that you asked um or what the other item was that

00:07:18.220 i think makes kind of a brotherhood or the iron council effective and i do think possibility is

00:07:24.720 still i'd still hold on to that like that yeah i think the the other part is not being alone in it

00:07:30.800 um and and i think part of that is like we because of relationships there's a sense of care that

00:07:39.180 changes accountability accountability is so different when it's coming from someone that

00:07:45.540 you don't have an established relationship with where you don't know if they care about you as

00:07:50.740 an individual or not um our ability to speak into each other drastically changes uh when there's

00:07:57.440 care. Um, and, and so I think it's that element of it. I mean, you know, you're using an example

00:08:02.740 of like, you know, Goggins, right. Or Jordan Peterson, how many guys are inspired maybe by

00:08:09.440 those individuals. And then when it came down to having a really, um, open conversation,

00:08:15.700 they would hold back and they wouldn't share any of the things that they're struggling with those

00:08:20.660 individuals. Why? Because they're so care. They're so concerned about what that person thinks of

00:08:24.960 them, that they would not even open up to allow the conversation probably be as effective.

00:08:30.440 And maybe that's one of the benefits that we get to have in the Iron Council is you're

00:08:34.980 with like-minded guys, which means that you might be more willing to realize that you

00:08:43.880 guys are in similar places.

00:08:45.360 You might be more authentic and open with one another, which allows a better connection,

00:08:50.100 a better relationship and ultimately the ability for men to speak into each other and to know that

00:08:56.220 when you're struggling, you're not alone in the struggle and that someone can relate to it. Um,

00:09:01.520 and, and that someone probably has gone before you and have, have, uh, dealt with those similar

00:09:07.520 things. And it kind of goes back to that possibility. It's like now all of a sudden it's

00:09:11.620 like, there's a way out. There's some hope, right. To, to what I'm dealing with.

00:09:15.100 yeah i i like that i i think that makes a ton of sense um i'm constantly thinking about like

00:09:21.920 what is it that men would be looking for what is it that how can we serve these guys

00:09:28.480 yeah i like i like that it's it's like okay well i if you're not alone and i can see kip let's say

00:09:37.760 i relate with you and i do you know we're we're similar in a lot of ways you know we're similar

00:09:42.140 ages, similar demographic, uh, similar goals and dreams and desires for our future. And if I can

00:09:48.740 see that somebody like you that I'm inspired by that I'm deeply connected with is also wrestling

00:09:55.920 with at the end of the day, when he puts his head on his pillow, the same things I am like, Oh wait.

00:10:02.740 Yeah. Kip's wrestling with struggles in the relationship or concerns about his kids or

00:10:09.340 financial situations or health situations oh wait so if he's struggling with that and he's doing

00:10:16.840 well and i'm still inspired by him it's okay for me to struggle with that and maybe i can work

00:10:23.800 through this maybe i can improve maybe i can get better that's a good point i again i just want to

00:10:30.540 like drill deeper because when people say i'll be around like-minded men that's not that's a tactic

00:10:36.360 get around like-minded men that's a tactic but that isn't the that isn't the equation that isn't

00:10:43.620 the resolution that there's something about it deeper that we as men need to think about

00:10:48.660 everybody will say oh you just need to be around like-minded men why why like my my my youngest

00:10:55.600 son is it yeah the other day he kept saying that he's like why and that answer he's like why i'm

00:11:00.840 like dude stop effing playing the y game with me and also good because we should dive deeper yeah

00:11:08.780 yeah yeah all right let's get what would you add to the list um

00:11:15.040 you said possibility

00:11:19.360 uh, and you, and you said, um, just like, like not, not alone. Right. So I would say

00:11:31.240 maybe it is impossibility, but I would say ideas for me, I'm an idea guy. And if I can get around

00:11:41.460 three four five six eight hundred men and share things i mean the sky's the limit on the

00:11:50.160 opportunities and potential and new information i have like i'm always interested i'm very i'm a

00:11:55.360 curious person so for me what i naturally gravitate towards is what can i learn so for me it's growth

00:12:04.380 these guys are all in similar on similar paths they're all moving in a similar direction

00:12:10.700 so what can you teach me that i did not have access to or what opportunities or what connections can

00:12:17.460 you make for me um or you know i had a good call with i have a team leader i'm on a battle team i

00:12:23.420 have a team leader so i the iron council is something we created and yet i'm a participant

00:12:29.660 of it and i got off the phone my team leader today and like i love hearing from him you know

00:12:35.900 he's, he's in Australia. He, he runs a very successful martial arts studio. I want to know,

00:12:44.160 I want to know what he's doing. I'm curious about what's working, what's not working so that I can

00:12:47.480 implement things that are working in my life and remove things that aren't in my life. So

00:12:52.600 I just think the access to information is the most important thing for me personally.

00:12:58.720 Yeah. Yeah. You know, in, in hindsight, I think, I think we're onto something,

00:13:02.800 or at least we can even relate what we're talking about to some frameworks. I mean,

00:13:06.800 if you look at self-determination theory, self-determination theories suggests that

00:13:13.180 there's three things that someone needs to have in place to be self-determined or intrinsically

00:13:19.120 motivated on their own where they don't need outside motivation. And the three things are

00:13:25.480 autonomy, this feeling of it's through choice, right? In my agency that I own my world, right?

00:13:32.160 that there's some element of control that I take over. The second is to your point is mastery and

00:13:38.740 growth, that there's an opportunity for growth and improvement. And the last one, which now I'd

00:13:46.140 kind of re rephrase or use a different word to describe my second point. It's relatedness. And

00:13:52.420 I think that's kind of what we're talking about is there's relatedness of not being alone, but

00:13:56.460 there's relatedness of being able to relate my difficulty, um, through what other people are

00:14:02.980 also experiencing. And, and there's obviously a sense of not being alone in it. So yeah, it's,

00:14:08.760 it's a good, I think we're onto something. So, and we will get to questions guys at some point.

00:14:17.280 Don't worry. We'll hurry. Sorry. Um, self-determination. Yep. Agreed. Like we need

00:14:25.420 be able to be the masters of our own fate if i'm going to use that poem uh that's crucial that's

00:14:32.240 that my battle team is invictus i'm the master of my fate i'm the captain of my soul so that's the

00:14:38.520 team i'm on i really like the concept of mastery not perfection but mastery like if i'm going to

00:14:44.500 do something i'm going to do it to the nth degree you know that that's why if you're following on

00:14:49.400 youtube that's why we created this studio it wasn't where i wanted to be so we elevate i've

00:14:55.240 got a call here in about 40 minutes with a videographer and he's helping me get things

00:15:01.300 set up so i can make sure my shots are just right and i have the right cameras and equipment

00:15:05.160 because mastery is important to me related list related relatedness is that what you said

00:15:11.900 relatedness yeah yeah or that doesn't go ahead yeah go ahead no it's right go ahead that one

00:15:20.060 doesn't, that one doesn't resonate with me as much. Personally, I don't, I don't, I don't feel

00:15:28.120 like I need that. And, and maybe that's because, well, a couple of things. Number one, this is

00:15:39.000 going to sound really arrogant, but it is what it is. Like I've always felt like there's something,

00:15:44.700 it's going to sound very egotistical, but I want to be honest. There's just something about me

00:15:51.820 that is different from common, expected, average, ordinary, et cetera. I've always felt that about

00:16:01.540 myself. And yeah, I know that might come across as arrogant and egotistical. Maybe it is.

00:16:06.140 i don't really want to relate with most people

00:16:10.000 i would much rather find guys succeeding at the highest level and not relate with them

00:16:19.920 but be inspired by and build connections with them so that one doesn't resonate as much with me

00:16:26.340 not to say it won't with other people i've never really cared about relating with

00:16:31.140 people i i don't know how i don't know how to say that does that even make any sense to you

00:16:37.640 no i think it makes sense um and and maybe you know there's ebbs and flows to those areas of

00:16:46.000 our lives like when we're in the struggle you know related uh being relatable or being able

00:16:51.280 to relate to others and connection becomes even more critical right when we're maybe on a path

00:16:56.220 where we're a little bit sure of ourselves and things are going well maybe not as important

00:17:00.440 right and it probably ebbs and flows depending on the season of life yeah fair interesting all

00:17:07.100 right well cool well let's get to some questions and we'll try to crank through as many as we can

00:17:10.760 and we'll be a little bit um less long-winded okay sounds good Derek Haslam a few weeks ago

00:17:19.060 a guy got aggressive with my wife in a grocery store parking lot I froze I didn't say a word

00:17:24.800 and she handled it herself nothing happened but i haven't been able to shake it i talk a lot about

00:17:31.040 protecting my family and and when it mattered i didn't how do i come back from that and how do

00:17:36.320 i make sure it doesn't happen again and the repentance process is amazing not only is it a

00:17:44.500 spiritual process it's a physiological process it's a it's a temp learning yeah i'll say it that

00:17:49.960 way. It's a temporal process. Repentance process admits that you did wrong, which you're admitting

00:17:56.420 right now. Number two is to rectify the situation, which you may or may not have done. I'll explain

00:18:03.400 what that means in a second. And then number three is to commit to changing your behavior.

00:18:09.460 That is the repentance process. Accept, make amends, commit to change. That's it.

00:18:15.720 so you've already accepted it you did wrong you didn't do you didn't handle yourself correctly

00:18:21.120 you should have done differently that's number one number two bro you let your wife down i don't

00:18:26.620 know how else to say it like you let her down you let her handle what you should have handled

00:18:32.420 and that's a problem so the repentance process says you owe her an apology

00:18:38.980 hey babe you know what like that thing we had happen a week or two ago i want to tell you i'm

00:18:47.820 sorry i did not handle that correctly i acknowledge and recognize that i didn't handle it correctly

00:18:52.680 and moving forward here's what i'll do so that's the that's the rectifying situation and then part

00:18:59.820 number three commit to change this is one thing that guys need to do more of um

00:19:06.960 we as men are to anticipate problems

00:19:11.280 it's the reason why when i sit down at a restaurant with the woman that i'm dating

00:19:19.300 i sit in the proper place

00:19:23.220 it's the reason why when we walk down the side of the road i walk on the outside

00:19:31.300 it's the reason why i pick good places to go i would never take her to a bar never why would i 0.95

00:19:41.860 take the woman i'm responsible for to a bar with a bunch of drunk dudes i would never do that

00:19:50.320 because we are as men to anticipate what could potentially be a threat

00:19:57.320 and that's a good thing because what it does is it acknowledges that there's threats out there to us

00:20:04.200 to our people to the to our wife or our children or the people responsible for and just don't put

00:20:10.780 yourself in those environments so you may not have anticipated what you would do if that situation

00:20:19.820 arose and that's the problem as mildly as i can put it you didn't anticipate it so when it happened

00:20:26.900 you weren't ready for it this is like people make fun of this and there was like several months ago

00:20:36.040 or maybe even a year ago there was this whole thing of like men it was a meme but it was like

00:20:41.640 men thinking about conquering in the roman empire yeah right that's what you should be thinking

00:20:46.620 about as men and you know what women should be thinking about being whisked away by the the

00:20:54.040 the wholesome righteous prince who had true love's first kiss but she can't do that if you're not

00:21:03.200 the type of man that you're supposed to be so yeah you should anticipate problems you should

00:21:09.140 expect problems you should be prepared for problems and hopefully they never come up i i don't i don't

00:21:15.120 want to shoot anybody i don't want to get into physical education but i do want to be prepared

00:21:19.240 if it happens. So you have to go through the temporal repentance process. You already did

00:21:26.000 number one. I don't know if you've done number two, which is apologize to her because you messed 1.00

00:21:30.360 up. And number three is what will I do differently moving forward? Yeah. Ryan, what advice would you

00:21:37.620 give? Because like, I think sometimes we'll fall into this where it's like, oh man, I should have,

00:21:42.540 I should have, I should have. But what Derek and some of us don't address is why did he freeze up?

00:21:49.240 what was the barrier that caused the freeze up and, and just saying, Oh, next time sometimes

00:21:56.500 isn't enough. Cause all of a sudden that shows up again. And then he's like, Oh, you know what I

00:22:00.640 mean? And it's like, okay, where's the training in this? So like in this kind of, and it's kind

00:22:04.880 of a unique scenario. I, I don't know, I'll let you answer the question, but what advice would

00:22:10.120 you give Derek to be like dealing with conflict in the, cause I'm assuming that's what this is.

00:22:16.200 it's this uneasy feeling of conflict. When he says aggressive with his wife, I'm assuming he

00:22:21.840 wasn't like attacking her. So now we're just talking about verbal aggression, right? And

00:22:28.340 confrontation. What advice would you give him in regards to learning to get comfortable in that

00:22:35.200 space? So then that way, when this does come up, it's not this fight and flight kind of mentality.

00:22:39.500 It's something that he can step into a little. Yeah. I mean, you bring up a good point because

00:22:43.620 a lot of guys will say well next time i'm gonna be a badass it's like are you though like if you

00:22:47.780 haven't done anything different you probably won't uh so the the real issue is are you actually

00:22:54.700 preparing for it are you training for it uh the quote it's a stoic quote but it's been massaged

00:23:01.140 and manipulated and tweaked a little bit but and i can't even remember who said it maybe we can look

00:23:05.320 it up but it's um uh we don't we don't rise to the level of our expectations we fall to the level

00:23:11.980 of our training yeah and that's that's a quote thousands and thousands of years old and i'll

00:23:19.280 pull up the quote if i can here shortly but yeah i can look it up while you're talking yeah look it

00:23:23.960 up there there's a there's an ancient ancient stoic quote and then and the seals used it we

00:23:29.240 don't rise to the level of our expectations we fall to the level of our training james clear

00:23:33.220 with atomic habits he he took it and said we don't rise to the level of our expectations we fall to

00:23:37.940 the level of our systems, I think is what James says, but it's just basically a manipulation of

00:23:43.620 the original quote, which you might be able to pull up. So when you say, Hey, next time I'm going

00:23:48.660 to be a badass. Okay. Like how, why, like, what are you doing in the meantime to prove that you're

00:23:56.380 actually going to take that seriously? And the only way you can do that is through conflict

00:24:01.320 resolution, practicing. So Kip, you and I disagreed last week about, uh, the, we had

00:24:10.160 some, we had some differences of opinion, let's say about Elon Musk flying car, right?

00:24:17.240 Yeah. Yeah. Like it wasn't a, we weren't arguing. We wouldn't, we didn't hate it. Like it was

00:24:23.760 nothing. It literally meant nothing, but it was an opportunity for us to disagree with each other.

00:24:29.400 that's awesome that's good i walked away not feeling any less of you i don't feel like you

00:24:36.500 thought any less of me even though we disagreed so my question for you in this situation not you

00:24:41.320 but but our our asker is when's the last time you just disagreed with somebody healthily

00:24:48.100 you're like when's the last time your wife said hey babe like here's the thing and you're like

00:24:54.660 no i don't think so i don't agree with that

00:24:59.100 it's okay to disagree that's the lowest barrier to entry is disagreeing with people you love you

00:25:06.260 don't have to be a dick about it you don't have to be unreasonable about it but if you can just

00:25:10.680 practice disagreeing with people and i do it all the time kip if you say something i'm gonna tell 0.95

00:25:16.500 you like hey i don't actually disagree with that i see it differently and it means nothing and in

00:25:23.160 fact it makes us both better but i i have to ask a lot of men you know when's the last time you

00:25:29.920 actually disagreed with your wife respectfully when's the last time you disagreed with a friend

00:25:36.660 or are you this guy who just walks around with your head bobbing vertically saying yes to everything

00:25:41.960 yeah yeah yeah oh you like that yep i like that too oh yeah you feel this way yeah i feel that

00:25:47.020 way too oh yeah this issue is not important to you it's not important to me oh this one is yes

00:25:51.040 that's important to me it's like god grow a spine man like you have opinions you have beliefs you

00:25:58.580 have thoughts you have ideas and the more that you can express yourself appropriately i'm not saying

00:26:03.760 everything needs to turn into a fight some guys take it to the extreme and they just become

00:26:07.540 uh the pessimist of the group that's dumb too you shouldn't do that but just be able to express 0.77

00:26:14.340 yourself and say let's say your wife comes to you this weekend and she's like hey babe i um 0.96

00:26:19.040 I really want to go do sushi tonight it's okay to say you know I'm not feeling sushi can we go to

00:26:25.560 the steakhouse it's okay to say that if she comes to you and she's like hey what do you think of

00:26:33.100 these new jeans and they don't look good on her it's okay to say hey baby you know like I don't

00:26:39.060 think those are as flattering as that other pair that I like I wish more people would just be

00:26:44.920 honest and open and forthright tactfully because that's the skill that you need to address

00:26:51.220 confrontation and that way when you get into a situation where a guy's talking to your wife

00:26:56.840 here's how i i hope i would have handled myself in that situation let's say kip you're the

00:27:02.600 aggressor but hey look we don't want any trouble we're not interested in getting to this argument

00:27:09.260 so what i propose right now is you go your way we'll go our way and all is good no harm no foul

00:27:14.660 like i'm not going to get aggressive with you i'm going to try to diffuse no harm no foul

00:27:21.720 you go that way we'll go this way we'll wash our hands of it and everybody will get home safe

00:27:27.140 tonight but you can't say that unless you're comfortable dealing with disagreement

00:27:35.040 and you need to practice that in every situation that you can

00:27:41.300 So if Joe Schmo at the boardroom says,

00:27:44.240 hey, we should do this at the next,

00:27:46.060 you know, to grow our business

00:27:47.260 and you don't agree with it,

00:27:48.780 here's what I would say.

00:27:50.340 Hey, you know what?

00:27:51.300 Like, I have an idea.

00:27:53.220 You, Kip, let's say you call on me.

00:27:54.540 You're my boss.

00:27:55.100 You call on me.

00:27:55.560 I'm like, hey, I really like what Joe Schmo said

00:27:57.800 about X, Y, and Z.

00:27:59.500 I see it a little different.

00:28:00.720 I think we can incorporate

00:28:02.220 one or two of the things that he had mentioned.

00:28:04.820 But here's another thing that I propose.

00:28:08.980 That's confrontation.

00:28:09.880 that's that's a little bit adversarial but it's done in an environment that's healthy and

00:28:14.440 productive and the more you can get comfortable with just being your own person and acknowledging

00:28:19.660 that you have opinions and thoughts and ideas and they're valid and you express them

00:28:24.720 the easier it is to deal with injustice when it happens and this sounds like an unjust situation

00:28:33.720 all right so that quote um sometimes attributed to the ancient greek poet um archelichus

00:28:45.220 what is that there's there what is the quote uh the quote that we don't rise to the level

00:28:52.300 of our expectations we fall to the level of our training oh that is okay so that's the original

00:28:56.780 quote yeah yeah um but you know how like the response is like attributed you know what i mean

00:29:03.840 so it's all loose and then it makes reference to tim ferris and everybody else so yeah tim didn't

00:29:09.320 think of it the same way jaco didn't think about discipline equals freedom i mean i think it was

00:29:15.000 aristotle who said through discipline comes freedom jaco says discipline equals freedom

00:29:21.500 We're just borrowing ideas.

00:29:24.260 Yep. Yep. Totally. All right. Marcus, uh, felt, um, I married a woman with two boys,

00:29:30.800 uh, nine and 12. Their dad is still involved. And honestly, he's not a bad guy. The problem is I

00:29:36.480 don't know where I fit. I lead too hard. I'm overstepping. If I hang back, I'm just the guy

00:29:42.840 who lives there. How do you step into a leadership role with kids who already have a father?

00:29:47.680 i mean i think you're actually like based on what you're saying you acknowledge that he's a good

00:29:53.520 human being or he's decent he said he's doing a pretty good job that's a good step most guys 0.87

00:29:59.520 don't even do that they're like oh he's a dick well hold on like is he a good dad he might still 0.91

00:30:04.620 be a good dad and i think you're acknowledging that one thing i didn't hear you say though 0.98

00:30:10.320 is what does your, what does your bride say? Yeah. Like what, what conversations have you

00:30:19.500 had with her about, Hey babe, like, where do you, okay, let me, let me back up just a step.

00:30:26.060 We don't seek validation as men. It's not a thing we do. So I'm putting a hard and fast

00:30:32.900 rule on that. I don't seek validation from anyone. I need to be able to validate myself

00:30:38.900 and I need to be right in the eyes of God.

00:30:42.240 That's it.

00:30:43.800 I don't need you to affirm me, Kip. 0.93

00:30:46.760 I don't need the woman in my life to affirm me.

00:30:49.380 I need to be able to do that with myself and with God.

00:30:52.140 So that's important as I talk about this.

00:30:56.100 But that said, it's important to get the opinions

00:31:00.140 and the insight of the people that are going to be affected

00:31:02.420 by the decisions that you're making.

00:31:04.420 So here's how men approach these scenarios.

00:31:08.900 we don't ask first. We lead first. So in this situation, what I would say is,

00:31:17.840 hey, babe, we'll do a little role play here. Like, hey, babe,

00:31:25.520 I've really been feeling like I'm kind of at a loss for my role in the relationship with the

00:31:31.720 kids. And I've been pondering. I've been thinking about it. I want to show up fully for the boys.

00:31:36.280 i want to show up fully for you i love you i love the boys i want to do this right

00:31:40.840 can we talk about this this evening or this weekend and she says yeah of course i'd love

00:31:48.240 it because she wants you to be in their lives obviously and so you say okay great let's talk

00:31:53.700 about it tonight i have some ideas and so you paint it in this positive light it's not like

00:31:59.100 we need to have a conversation about this we have an issue we have an issue yeah we we've got a

00:32:05.320 problem here that we need to address how anxious is she going to be the rest of her day and what

00:32:12.600 is that setting up the rest of the conversation for so you just frame it positively hey babe i

00:32:17.540 love you i love the boys i want to be such a great influence in their lives i want to make sure you

00:32:23.460 and i are on the same page with my role and how i show up and i'm very excited to talk with you

00:32:28.240 about this because i got some cool ideas you see the difference yeah and then so you sit down you

00:32:35.660 have this conversation you don't lead with questions we we don't in this situation we lead

00:32:42.520 with ideas so hey babe you know as i told you earlier today i've been thinking a lot about this

00:32:48.960 and i've been i've been at a loss of where i stand and i've got some ideas like i would love to be

00:32:56.720 more involved with the boys i'd love to do like once a month a boys getaway where me and the boys

00:33:02.540 get out we go camping or we go hunting or we go on a hike or i just take them take them to lunch

00:33:08.600 or breakfast and we do a walk whatever your idea is always lead with ideas and then and then the

00:33:18.060 questions come but babe look my intention is to really connect with the boys i know they love

00:33:23.600 their father. I honor that relationship. I'd rather them have a good father in their lives.

00:33:29.260 And so I think Steve is showing up in a pretty decent way. And I love that. I'm grateful that

00:33:35.600 he's showing up that way, despite your guys' differences and that he's in his son's lives.

00:33:40.460 I'm not here to replace him. I'm here to supplement. So here are my ideas,

00:33:48.620 but i'm curious what you think what do you see my role as what things do you think i could do

00:33:57.900 to be deeply connected with the boys and show up in a way that you hope i would show up as your

00:34:06.140 husband and let her be involved in the process she'll tell you exactly what she wants you to do

00:34:10.920 i can do that anything she says you can probably do like there's probably not a whole lot she's

00:34:18.580 asking for that you wouldn't be able to do or even wouldn't want to do yeah yeah totally well

00:34:26.200 and i think if we if we look at our lives like there's probably a lot of guys who

00:34:29.840 had influence on you that weren't your dad and it's not black and white right it's not like

00:34:37.600 there's this like oh here's this lane and and uh you know marcus you got to stay in this lane

00:34:43.040 that's predefined. It's like, no, you're a leader. How do you lead people? Oh, got it. I

00:34:49.300 establish relationships with them. I influence, I speak into them. They don't have to be your kid

00:34:54.720 to do that. You can do that with a kid that's a neighbor. You could do that with a kid that plays

00:34:58.860 on the team that you're coaching. You can do that with stepkids. You can actually do that with your

00:35:04.100 own kids. So figure out what leadership looks like, agnostic of these lanes, right? Because

00:35:10.460 we have a tendency to kind of go black and white on this. So like, well, I'm not the dad. It's

00:35:14.200 like, well, but you're a human, you're an adult and you can be inspiring and impactful to the

00:35:19.720 people around you. So what does that look like specifically, you know, and, and kind of flesh

00:35:24.300 that out. Right. So, um, but great question. And the fact that Marcus is even asking, this is,

00:35:30.160 is spot on, right. Cause he's trying to navigate these waters, uh, and he's not checked out.

00:35:34.720 He's obviously trying to figure out the best way to influence. Yeah, no, I love it. I mean,

00:35:39.540 how many kids need need a good male role model in their life i i did when i was young and i had

00:35:45.460 great coaches step into my life who filled that role was it ideal no of course not but it was a

00:35:53.160 damn good alternative yeah totally all right tom iverson uh my 24 24 year old son moved back home

00:36:02.340 after his job fell through it's been eight months he's not lazy exactly but he's comfortable the 0.98

00:36:08.720 Answer his rules, boundaries and rules.

00:36:11.120 Sorry, keep going.

00:36:13.100 Yeah, he's comfortable and I can feel it turning into a pattern.

00:36:17.340 My wife says, be patient.

00:36:18.820 My gut says, push him out.

00:36:20.280 Where's the line between supporting him and enabling him?

00:36:24.120 Well, first, you need to have a conversation with your wife.

00:36:28.320 You two need to get on the same page.

00:36:30.020 You need to honor her, right?

00:36:31.460 like yeah i've used this analogy in the past when when you're you know you're pushing your kid

00:36:38.780 down the road and he's trying to ride his bike for the first time and he falls off mom scoops

00:36:43.560 him up rushes him into the bathroom or the kitchen kisses his owie and his boo-boo and

00:36:49.080 puts a little bluey band-aid on his his his scrape or whatever and blows on it and does all this 0.88

00:36:54.880 weird shit that women should be doing and then dad says no hold on bud like we're good okay like 0.99

00:37:03.680 rub some dirt on it let's go you're good you're good pick them up throw them back on the bike 1.00

00:37:07.940 let's go and you try to distract them from how bad their knee might sting who's wrong nobody

00:37:14.980 neither you're they're both the man and the woman in this scenario are exactly right

00:37:21.160 and so you need to honor the fact that she is like hey like don't be hard on him he's trying

00:37:29.120 to get on his feet under him he's like that's her job like why would this is the thing that 0.91

00:37:35.280 confuses me we get so frustrated with women in our lives when they're being women and then

00:37:40.900 simultaneously we'll say we're like women are just so masculinized these days yeah bro you 0.81

00:37:47.540 she was trying to be a woman and you and you said don't do that let her be a mom for a sec

00:37:54.280 but also she needs to let you be a man and part of that is the trust and the relationship and how

00:38:00.760 you show up and do you honor your commitments i know we're going deep based on your question but

00:38:06.240 really does she trust you that's the question does she trust you and why would she trust you

00:38:14.300 and what have you done to establish that trust but i would i would first sit down with her

00:38:19.100 and i'd have a conversation and i would start it like this another little role play here is i'd say

00:38:24.560 hey babe look i i know um i know that you want to keep him here i understand why um i i actually

00:38:34.600 appreciate the fact that you love him and you care about him and you want him to be okay i i actually

00:38:39.360 love that about you you're nurturing and you're caring and you're beautiful and you're lovely and

00:38:44.720 that's how i lead the conversation and i would not say but let's eliminate that word but

00:38:53.040 okay that's where the wall starts to come up so it's and instead and so you've been nurturing

00:39:01.520 and kind and loving and i understand why you would do that and also i want to make sure

00:39:07.800 that we help our son get on his own two feet that he enters the world that he finds a job

00:39:16.420 that he's able to be self-sustaining and that he's able to leave live a fulfilled and happy life i

00:39:21.640 want both so what do you think we could do to establish some boundaries and some rules in order

00:39:32.880 for you to feel like you're doing your job as his mother, which I appreciate, honor, respect.

00:39:39.540 And what I, what my job as a father to help him learn independence and self-reliability

00:39:46.200 and getting over hardship. What do you think? Put it, put it on her a little bit.

00:39:55.240 Lean on her. Like you can lean on your people, lean on her a little, put a little pressure on

00:39:59.520 and say, hey, what do you think? She might actually come up with some really good ideas.

00:40:05.960 You know, maybe she comes up with curfew. Maybe she comes up with a financial arrangement. 0.75

00:40:12.040 Maybe she comes up with a deadline or a timetable. And if it's her idea, even better.

00:40:19.400 So if she says, well, yeah, no, you're right. I understand, which is what a rational woman would 0.96

00:40:26.660 do yeah i know i know i know i'm a little easy on him and soft on him but you're right maybe we can

00:40:33.460 come up with a calendar for how to do this or or maybe we can have him pay a little bit of a rent

00:40:40.000 or contribute to the household she'll come up with some ideas if you lean on her a little bit

00:40:45.980 and then when she gives her ideas naturally because this is what people do she's going to say

00:40:51.460 those are my ideas but what do you think because that's what normal people do

00:40:55.880 and then you get to share your ideas and then you get on the same page.

00:41:01.220 And once you're on the same page, you, you and her and your son communicate it.

00:41:07.660 Yeah. I think the nugget that I heard you say, Ryan, is like,

00:41:11.060 this is not just about getting him out of the house on his own.

00:41:16.380 This is about a learning opportunity, right? How are we developing our son?

00:41:21.160 What lessons does he need to learn?

00:41:22.880 Because if he's not learning in this little soft hardship of life right now where it's like, oh, I'm between jobs and just living at home, well, when the stakes are higher, he's not going to have the reps, right, to deal with larger hardship, right?

00:41:35.900 So it's like how do we use this circumstance to develop your son more and give him opportunities to learn?

00:41:45.420 well i think anytime you get into these conflicts and this is not a big conflict it doesn't even

00:41:50.980 sound like it but it but it is a little bit of a conflict anytime you get into these situations

00:41:55.740 you always want to appeal to what the other party's issue is and her issue based on the

00:42:03.500 limited information i have her issue is you're being too hard on him i just want little timmy

00:42:11.700 to be okay. That's probably her issue. Okay. Appeal to that. So, Hey babe, look, I know you

00:42:19.740 want Tim to be okay. I know you care about, I know you love him. That's your job as a mom and you're

00:42:26.420 a great mom. I also want him to be okay. And I want to know that Tim can stand on his own two

00:42:33.820 feet and that when hardship comes, he can address and deal with it. We want the same thing. We come

00:42:40.300 at it from a little bit of a different angle but we want the same thing i would also say let this

00:42:45.060 be a lesson to anybody who has a three or four or five year old to start thinking about these things

00:42:50.240 today these are the conversations that need to take place today and and so when little tim falls

00:42:57.760 off his bike you're like hey babe yeah put the bluey band-aid on blow on his boo-boo wash it off

00:43:04.720 do whatever, but can we work together? Can you please, when you do that, can you please

00:43:10.440 send him back out so we can do this again? These are the kinds of conversations that need to take

00:43:17.460 place at three, four, five, six, 12, 15 years old. So that at 18 years old, we're not doing this for

00:43:24.280 the first time. This isn't our first rodeo. Yeah. All right. Andre Whitfield. Um, I grew up

00:43:32.300 with nothing and built a good life now my kids have everything i've never had and i'm watching

00:43:37.240 them take it for granted i don't want to manufacture hardship just to teach a lesson

00:43:42.140 but i also don't want to raise soft kids how are you handling this with your own

00:43:46.620 you don't need to manufacture it but my kids like and i kind of do it jokingly but also serious my

00:43:55.740 kids are like oh i'm gonna i'm gonna um i'm gonna go hang out in my room or like whatever i'm like

00:44:01.300 that's not your room. Like, I hope that's my room or like, I'm going to go get in our car.

00:44:10.340 That's not your car. That's my car. So you're going to treat it with respect. You know, we

00:44:16.080 have these types of conversations. I'm letting you live here because I'm your dad and I have

00:44:21.080 responsibility for you, but like, I owe you nothing. Like I'm doing this because I love

00:44:29.220 and care about you, but you got to pull your weight. And so the, the, what I would say is,

00:44:34.920 I don't know how old your son is, but was it a son? It was a son, right? Um, he just said,

00:44:41.380 kid, kids, yeah. Get them involved in what you're doing. You know, when, when my kids,

00:44:47.340 so this morning, my two oldest boys, uh, they were laying on the couch and I had to go run

00:44:53.440 some errands this morning and they were going to go to their mom's house. And I'm like, Hey guys,

00:44:57.000 cool before you go to your mom's house clean the living room they're like they like put up a stink

00:45:03.760 i'm like hey you you're you this is your house this is my house this is your house i don't i 0.98

00:45:11.020 don't go into your bedroom and just mess up your shit for fun like i don't go in there and like 0.99

00:45:17.460 move all your furniture around take all your sheets off your bed like break things just because 0.99

00:45:23.720 they're there i don't do that at all and i expect that you would do the same thing especially in the

00:45:28.700 common areas like all of us are using this area my kids are intimately familiar with what i do for

00:45:34.920 work and so my youngest will be like hey dad i want to earn ten dollars so i can he went to

00:45:40.700 disneyland with his siblings and his mom last week or not disneyland but universal and he's like dad

00:45:46.460 i want to earn some money i'm like yeah you can earn some money let's go out and do store orders

00:45:50.980 He's like, I don't want to do store orders.

00:45:52.180 I'm like, I don't want to give you $20.

00:45:54.980 And he's like, okay, let's go do store orders.

00:45:57.380 Yeah, exactly.

00:45:59.440 So we can introduce our kids to the dynamic and how it actually works.

00:46:06.040 Yeah, we live a much more abundant lifestyle than I did when I was a kid,

00:46:10.680 but there's still rules.

00:46:12.920 They still wake up.

00:46:13.880 They still have chores.

00:46:14.820 They still have duties.

00:46:15.640 They still have responsibilities.

00:46:16.640 They help me with a store.

00:46:18.480 They help me with my business.

00:46:20.080 just last night I put this pot that there's a plant right here you can't see just out of frame

00:46:24.980 and I put it in a new pot and I had my my second son and my my fourth child my youngest come down

00:46:31.620 I'm like hey guys I need your help you grab the vacuum bring it down and both of them like we

00:46:35.760 don't want to do that I'm like I don't care I don't care if you want to do it you're gonna help

00:46:40.640 me and so we came down and we joked we played we had fun we re-planted this plot this plant and

00:46:47.240 then one of them vacuumed up and it was good. There's not really an option around here to

00:46:54.080 contribute. Like this is just part of the deal and part of being a family. So yeah, you can have

00:46:59.620 a much more abundant lifestyle than maybe you did when you were a kid. But if you don't give

00:47:04.540 them duties and responsibilities and obligations, they're going to suffer, man. They're going to

00:47:09.940 suffer. Yeah, it's tough. Let's hop into one more question, Ryan, before we're up on time. I was

00:47:18.440 just looking over these. I think I got a good one here. Kyle Pratt says, I moved back to my hometown

00:47:24.160 to be near my parents. Problem is people here still see me as the screw up I was at 19. I'm 38,

00:47:31.980 sober, 12 years and running a crew. Does it matter what they think or is it worth trying to change

00:47:38.300 the story. So kind of this, I don't know, kind of moving beyond maybe your past and, and rising

00:47:45.740 above it, right. When people still want to hold on to how they see you. Yeah. I think we can be

00:47:50.740 transcendent, right. With this question. For sure. What was the last, what was the last sentence of

00:47:55.400 the quest? Like what was the last question there? Yeah. Doesn't matter what they think, or, I mean,

00:48:00.880 he creates a false dichotomy here, but doesn't matter what they think, or is it worth trying

00:48:04.660 to change the story neither that's the false dichotomy what yeah it doesn't matter what they

00:48:13.560 think and you don't need to prove it to anybody that's it um there's one other tactic i would use

00:48:23.760 it's very simply owning it self-deprecation is amazing

00:48:28.160 so if i bump into you at the store let's say and

00:48:32.560 And, um, you know, maybe we had some problems in the past or, you know, my reputation or whatever.

00:48:39.520 And I bump into the store and I'm like, oh, Kip, like, oh, it's good to see you. You know, I,

00:48:44.180 I just got back. I've been away for 20 years. I just got back, man. I was such a screw up when

00:48:49.040 I was a kid. I'm so glad to be back and like in a different headspace. That's so diffusing.

00:48:56.080 or if somebody says um i remember you i was like yeah i remember me too i was such a jerk back then

00:49:07.160 i i'd feel the same way you did when i yeah if if i bumped into you self-deprecation is huge

00:49:16.280 it's so diffusing and i promise if you have enough of that just lightness and casualness about it

00:49:23.220 that stuff goes away man it does it might take some time especially if you live in a small

00:49:28.340 community it might take some time just self-deprecation play around with it tell people

00:49:35.220 you're a screw up when the situation arises just have some fun with it but don't but here's one

00:49:41.100 thing i would i wouldn't convince everybody i've changed i don't need to tell you that i'm gonna 0.66

00:49:47.160 let my actions speak for themselves so i'm not gonna say well i i know i was a mess up when i

00:49:51.480 as a kid, but I'm really working hard now. I don't, I'm not doing like, why am I trying to

00:49:55.780 impress you? So you only do the first half of it, which is off. Hi, last time I was here. You

00:50:03.200 remember that one time and I got arrested because I was drunk, driving drunk or whatever. What was

00:50:08.840 I thinking? And that's it. And you just leave it there. You remember that time? Like I remember

00:50:15.620 20 years ago when I was here and I got admitted to rehab. Like what a crazy life.

00:50:21.480 compared to where i am now wild and you just leave it there just acknowledgement self-deprecation

00:50:29.500 a little fun with it and goes such a long way yeah and i do think to call on something you

00:50:36.440 said earlier ryan you know the power of the repentance process or really the process of

00:50:41.280 learning right is like if there are things that you need to clear up yeah you might want to do

00:50:44.880 that totally but not but in the spirit of what you're saying don't clear it up to give them the

00:50:50.960 power to determine who you are and your own confidence do it why because it's the right

00:50:56.460 thing to do and and you're focused on learning and and that's ultimately what matters right more

00:51:03.800 than anything else and then and what's critical about this guys too is that when we do when we

00:51:08.740 take that approach to something it doesn't come with this premeditated resentment that we're

00:51:14.380 going to have against people because i'm doing all these things and and they still don't see me it's

00:51:19.060 like, dude, let it go. Do all those things. Why? Because you want to, and don't put that power

00:51:24.120 over into them and, and, and base one, what people think of you as your value. That that's the risk,

00:51:30.220 right? That ultimately Ryan is pulling out earlier as well as again on this question.

00:51:35.760 Yeah, I think so. Like if, let's say you, when you were a kid, you broke into, you know,

00:51:40.480 Mrs. Johnson's house and you stole her radio or something. I don't know. I'm just making shit up.

00:51:44.880 you know is is it too much to just write a note and say hey mrs johnson like i'm back in town i 0.98

00:51:52.800 drove by your house the other day and i was reminded that time where i did that dumb thing

00:51:56.640 and i'm so sorry and you just like leave a little flower pot on her door totally that's repentance

00:52:02.640 man and it's like you don't but you don't but you can't do it with the expectation that she'll

00:52:07.120 forgive you yeah you just have to do it because that's the repentance process and that's what i

00:52:13.620 would do i would just leave a little a little flower pot on the door and say hey mrs johnson

00:52:18.000 i'm back in town i was driving by man i was such a dumb kid and i'm so sorry i did that and it's

00:52:23.580 been weighing on me and i just wanted to let you know that i'm sorry and i'm sure we'll bump into

00:52:29.400 each other at some point and i would like that to be a good experience here's a little flower to

00:52:34.160 make your day brighter you could do that yeah it's so powerful well and and not to put you on

00:52:40.080 a spot, but I'm sure you've done that. I've done that. I remember two years into college living in

00:52:45.360 Phoenix, Arizona. And I remember thinking like, you know what? I did some stupid stuff when I was

00:52:50.180 in high school and I want to apologize. I literally wrote a note, something very similar 0.96

00:52:54.420 to this and said, Hey, I want to apologize for the way I handled that situation. And it made me

00:53:01.180 feel better, right? Like they never, they never wrote a letter back. I have no idea like how they

00:53:07.460 took it but i was good i was aligned with self and i cleaned up something that i felt i should

00:53:14.620 have cleaned up and and that's what ultimately mattered yeah for sure it's really easy to do

00:53:21.040 it's well it's simple to do it's not always easy because your ego gets in the way it's like oh well

00:53:26.440 i don't want that's easy shouldn't matter yeah totally so there's your call to action clean up 0.93

00:53:31.760 your clean up your shit i'm just exactly uh we got we got to wrap up yeah yeah but you know we 0.96

00:53:37.920 kind of kicked off earlier around you know the importance of brotherhood and the values there 0.99

00:53:41.960 um to join us in the iron council go to the iron council.com here's the critical element

00:53:48.600 enrollment into the iron council is going to close october 31st and not open back up before

00:53:57.600 right before the new year yeah so if you're wanting to get some reps in get make some progress before

00:54:03.700 the year's over now's the time you got literally what three days to act on it so the iron council

00:54:10.820 dot com to sign up join us i would recommend that obviously we're not major advocates of like ah you

00:54:16.660 know what just wait and wait until the new year starts to to improve life no do it now get work

00:54:22.860 out some kinks start making some progress before the years uh out and finish strong and so once

00:54:28.080 again that's the iron council.com awesome yep check it out guys uh we've got a we had a great

00:54:35.980 interview with david dieta and then we got one with jason kalipa coming out next week so make

00:54:40.660 sure to subscribe leave your rating review join us at order of man.com iron council and we'll see

00:54:46.840 you inside until then go out there take action and become a man you are meant to be thank you

00:54:52.120 for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

00:54:54.640 If you're ready to take charge of your life

00:54:56.240 and be more of the man you were meant to be,

00:54:58.640 we invite you to join the Order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - October 28, 2026

Public Confrontation, Winning as a Step-Dad, and Building Boundaries for Adult Kids ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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