00:03:04.040I think, look, like I was telling you earlier, Jake, I was not there, certainly,
00:03:09.120so I didn't go through it from the perspective of people that were.
00:03:13.200But as you said, from seeing quite a bit of video that has come out since all the initial reports, which I think kind of cherry-picked very short snippets to get the public thinking one way, the things that I've seen since then, you have, I think it's Officer Daniel Tao's body cam video.
00:03:56.140And firing, you know, flashbang grenades, all kinds of what are called less lethal munitions, excuse me, into the crowd at unarmed people and indiscriminately, too.
00:04:07.840I mean, not even firing at anybody in particular.
00:04:10.460So that, to me, looks to be way over the top.
00:04:13.820And, of course, there are the more well-known examples that have come out over the last couple years with, obviously, the point-blank execution of unarmed Ashley Babbitt, Roseanne Boylan being clubbed while she was unconscious multiple times by Lila Morris, things like that.
00:04:33.000As a law enforcement officer, you see that, and you really can't believe what you're seeing.
00:04:37.880And so that's one of the things that spurred me to get involved and try to do anything I could just to help get involved with the movement in any way, shape, or form.
00:04:48.400And you asked how the people in our county would react.
00:04:53.060It's very much a constitutional, constitution-respecting group of people here.
00:04:59.320We have about 100,000 people in my county, and I don't think anything remotely in that neighborhood would fly out here.
00:05:07.480People respect the police, but they also know when the police go too far and they're well aware of their rights.
00:05:13.820So the sheriff I work for is a very good man, believes in the Constitution,
00:05:18.400and I know that our training is very deep and thorough in what is appropriate use of force.
00:05:26.340And at the risk of going on too long, I apologize for that,
00:05:30.240But I don't think what I saw and what I'm seeing on a lot of these videos is anything close to the appropriate use of force by some Capitol Police that day.
00:05:39.780I know it wasn't all of them, but some of the ones I saw on video.
00:05:44.640Yeah, thanks. No problem, brother. Your insight is appreciated.
00:05:48.520And, you know, Chris here has actually dug in deep not just into the videos but also into the background,
00:05:55.500some of the case law surrounding federal use of force statutes and how the Supreme Court has interpreted this.
00:06:01.640He published recently on his Substack an article.
00:06:06.220Chris was explaining to me that some of the statutes that were cited in the article were surprising to me.
00:06:14.540And, you know, I mean, what does the use afford?
00:06:18.440I mean, it's kind of like the rules of engagement here.
00:06:20.720I mean, when you have a static crowd of protesters that are unarmed, is it ever, you know, the police's right to start unleashing, you know, pepper spray, pepper ball bullets, knee knockers, you know, less lethal forcing, tear gas, concussion grenades?
00:06:38.400Is that ever something that the law would, you know, deem necessary as use of force or they were completely out of line?
00:06:49.080Yeah, it's a really good question, Jake.
00:06:51.060I don't profess to be the world's foremost expert on it.
00:06:54.860I can only speak to the training that I've had and been fortunate to receive by people that know a lot more than me.
00:07:00.980So what I can tell you is that, to answer your question, to use less, they're called less lethal munitions, things like flashbang grenades.
00:07:11.380Less lethal can even apply to something like a taser or a baton, something that can inflict serious injury on somebody just short of causing their death.
00:07:22.440I think that's always been the interpretation of less lethal.
00:07:25.200So the case law you're referring to, what they train almost all law enforcement officers since 1990, roughly.
00:07:45.880Basically, up until that point, up until 1989, the test for whether a use of force was reasonable by a police officer
00:07:54.320was generally, it was called Johnson v. Glick, it was the older case law, and it was really
00:08:01.000subject to the Eighth Amendment, the whole cruel and unusual punishment idea, where you're actually
00:08:06.400trying to figure out what was the officer's intent. Were they trying to inflict punishment
00:08:10.580on somebody? Was there malicious intent? Well, in 1989, the Supreme Court threw that out and
00:08:16.300replaced it with Graham v. Conner, and they tried to make it a more objective test where you don't
00:08:20.640have to necessarily try to read the mind of the officer who was using force they came up short
00:08:27.500version is they came up with a four-factor test uh the in the short version is that those four
00:08:33.740factors are such as was the severity of the crime did the subject pose an immediate threat to the
00:08:40.760safety of officers or others uh was the subject actively trying to resist arrest or was the
00:08:46.520subject trying to attempt to evade arrest by flighting or running away. So you take all those
00:08:53.080questions into the context of the totality of the circumstances. Basically, what would a reasonable
00:08:58.200officer do based on the situation presented to him or her? And so it's a more objective test and
00:09:05.360tries to move away from figuring out what the intent of the officer was. And if you look at
00:09:10.280those four questions, if you just want to go to the example of the flashbangs being fired into
00:09:14.340the crowd the rubber bullets that landed in that one poor gentleman's face and tore his cheek open
00:09:18.760on the video that i saw that was gruesome that was gruesome man thank you yeah i i didn't i don't
00:09:25.780know the gentleman's name i apologize like i said i'm not i'm just sort of coming up the curve on a
00:09:30.660lot of this in terms of what i see in the video but uh there was no cause for that uh that you're
00:09:37.360just basically firing from an elevated position into the crowd and i don't think bottom line
00:09:41.800And I think the individuals that were subject to that force, I'm not a lawyer, obviously, I'm only a cop, but I think they probably have strong legal cases on the civil side using Graham-Connor as one, Graham v. Connor court case law.
00:09:55.760This is the Supreme Court. This isn't a local jurisdiction. This is, you know, the Supreme Court of the United States has said that there's a test that needs to be applied to the use of force, and I don't think, I really don't think it would pass muster.
00:10:07.500yeah i i can completely agree because you know one of those four prongs is uh the alleged crime
00:10:16.140that's being committed and um it's even questionable and arguable if we were even trespassing that day
00:10:22.520because of police inviting people in at different places um it being you know united states you know
00:10:28.360people's house to congress we have the right to petition on and redress our grievances with our
00:10:32.700government. So the question is, you know, most people, I think, in the Patriot camp would say
00:10:38.020that we weren't trespassing, but there's other people across the other side of the aisle that
00:10:42.340say we were trespassing. But for that, you know, severity of allegation of a crime might warrant
00:10:49.500maybe a warning, a desk appearance ticket, you know, here's a pink slip and, you know,
00:10:56.760come pay your $100 fine on Tuesday next month, but definitely not, you know, a rubber bullet
00:11:02.580through the face or the other things that happened, like Roseanne dying, Ashley dying,
00:11:08.380Kevin Greeson and Benjamin Phillips dying possibly and quite possibly from heart attacks
00:11:14.920caused by flash grenades that were thrown right in their direction.
00:11:21.420And that's from the law enforcement officer's perspective, Sheriff.
00:11:25.500So, guys, we want to segue now with Chris into talking about a little bit more about not just the use of force that happened on January 6th, but some of the more key elements of January 6th.
00:11:44.860As far as the government's actual jurisdiction, as far as federal officers compared to sheriffs and deputy sheriffs and how since January 6th, the United States federal government has sent these armed, you know, militarized police forces, federal police forces, FBI agents into sheriff's counties and into these, you know, heartland of America, small towns.
00:12:13.840and completely terrorized, showing up with, you know, arm-tumb Vs and stuff like that.
00:12:19.040So when we come back from the break, we're going to ask Chris's opinion on some of this stuff.
00:12:43.240Man, we've got an awesome episode today.
00:12:45.100Chris Caltagroni is a sheriff's deputy from Montana, from Ravalli County, Montana.
00:12:51.340He's a patriot. He supports the January Sixers.
00:12:54.040He's come out, recently been involved in different January Six organizations, Twitter spaces,
00:13:00.000just being an awesome proponent of the Constitution and American citizens' rights.
00:13:06.240It's really great to have him here with me today.
00:13:08.760Even though he's in Montana, I'm in a D.C. gulag jail cell right now, about five miles from the United States Capitol, a day I think about 977 of my incarceration as a political prisoner without a trial because of Joe Biden's corrupt Department of Justice and his Gestapo FBI, the wicked regime, has imprisoned patriots.
00:13:32.820There's about 185 currently incarcerated January 6ers, some of them awaiting trial, some of them awaiting sentencing,
00:13:42.200that have taken plea deals or been found guilty at trial, and a whole bunch more sitting in federal prisons sprawled out across the country.
00:13:50.360So prayers up for all of our January 6th political prisoners.
00:13:53.620Guys, if you want to catch the Political Prisoner podcast live on the weekend, it's at 8 p.m. on the Blessed News Network.
00:14:00.960You can download the Blessed News app for free on iPhone and Android.
00:14:53.520We're back with the man himself, the deputy sheriff from Revali County that has been a super proponent of the Jam Sixers.
00:15:01.660Chris, I wanted to ask you about your viewpoints on these FBI, non-elected bureaucrats.
00:15:11.000I mean, they're like federal, they're like terrorists.
00:15:13.380I think they're like terrorists coming into these counties, into these states where they have no jurisdiction, and kidnapping citizens that have been, you know, guilty of trespassing on their own Capitol grounds.
00:15:46.320And it's hard for me to see the way they're rolling into some of these homes of people that they're arresting for what they're calling crimes on January 6th.
00:15:59.820Heavy armored vehicles, not only do they have their sidearms, standard-issue sidearms like they always do, but they have rifles slung.
00:16:08.460uh they're they're they're shining they're shining their optics on on the wives and kids
00:16:15.420in the family as well as the person they're arresting i just i don't the display of force
00:16:21.880is shocking for me to see so my opinion on that is i it's hard for me to understand why
00:16:28.700they are going about it this way and again i know the fbi has some very good people i know that
00:16:35.580firsthand but i just i think it's it's gotten it's gotten to the point where it's out of control
00:16:41.360and i don't know if a lot of those guys and gals are just afraid to say something and they're just
00:16:46.000going along with it at this point uh but it's it's way over the top it's way beyond we were
00:16:53.060talking a little bit earlier about excessive force and the display of force that's being shown here is
00:16:59.400far over the top. Mr. Hughes is an example that comes to mind most recently. The gentleman that
00:17:05.560was arrested, I think it was at a shopping mall the other day, he was walking around in his shorts
00:17:09.340and the FBI agents get out of the cars, I don't know, six, seven deep. They're in a public place
00:17:15.280and they're arresting a guy for basically misdemeanors and he's walking around in his
00:17:21.000shorts. He's clearly unarmed and they're walking around a public parking lot all with
00:17:25.720all with the rifles slung over there i just i just don't understand how we got to this point where
00:17:32.280there's this gigantic display of course from an agency that is not elected by the citizens that
00:17:38.840the individuals of the fbi are not elected the the local sheriffs are and i think that gets to
00:17:44.660the difference what you were talking about earlier yeah thank you for that that's that's key that
00:17:51.300And, you know, the sheriff's office, the institution that the sheriff represents is the people, the protecting people's liberty.
00:17:59.520They're elected by the people they represent.
00:18:01.740They're supposed to protect the people.
00:18:03.540And you have these, you know, FBI agents, which, you know, God bless the ones that are after the child predators
00:18:11.080and, you know, the drug kingpins and the real criminals in this country.
00:18:15.400But as far as I know right now, all 51 field officers of the FBI have been activated to really just drop all of their other cases and worry about, you know, they've already arrested 1,300 Jan Sixers.
00:18:29.320They're after another about 2,000 of them.
00:18:32.280And they've pooled all their resources and basically prioritized the cases over all of these heinous, disgusting crimes to go after, I mean, red-blooded Americans.
00:18:53.980We have, I mean, some of the salt of the earth, the best of the best,
00:18:57.060Christian conservative men that are being persecuted by this wild FBI.
00:19:01.940And, you know, I wanted to go back to the point of, you know, the sheriff's office.
00:19:08.040And, you know, what's the distinction that you see?
00:19:11.380And what's your message to other sheriffs out there across the country that their citizens' rights that they've been elected to protect are being trampled upon for alleged crimes that are panning out to really just be political persecution?
00:19:26.980What's your message for other sheriffs across the country that are also feeling the same way you're feeling
00:19:32.340and not liking this militarization of these federal agencies after normal, everyday, good-hearted American citizens?
00:19:53.560I know I can speak to here locally very well, but I will say to answer your question, I would say where's the pushback in some of these counties?
00:20:04.060And I don't mean, I'm not suggesting the sheriffs get, you know, they deputize a bunch of people and stand in a line and tell the Fed you're not getting in here and then you got to stand off.
00:20:14.300That's not what I'm suggesting at all.
00:20:16.240But if these people, if these individuals are going to be arrested for quote-unquote crimes at the federal level, the sheriff, I would think, would push back a little bit and say, hey, you're not going to come into my county with this over-the-top display, of course.
00:20:31.780If you really are convinced that you need to have this person come in and answer for crimes, you know, this is my county.
00:20:41.800I will make that person available for you.
00:20:43.680But you're not going to come in here and raid their home, upset their families, traumatize these young kids with something they're never going to forget for the rest of their life.
00:20:54.080I mean, that's going to be, you're never going to unsee that, if you will.
00:20:59.160So, in other words, having a gun pointed at your mother who's there just because she happens to be in the house.
00:21:05.840I guess things like that, I wish the sheriffs would push back a little bit more.
00:21:10.140And, again, I can't pretend to know everything that's going on in their jurisdictions, but it's happened too many times at this point.
00:21:17.120You mentioned when we were talking earlier, Jake, you mentioned one of your close friends who was raided at his home.
00:21:25.040I know some people I've gotten very close to who were raided by the FBI.
00:21:30.380These over-the-top displays of force are consistent.
00:21:34.260There's nothing different from incident to incident in that regard.
00:21:57.660Yeah, it's more of a signal to the rest of the American people, to the rest of the neighbors and the rest of the community and stuff.
00:22:05.020You know, don't you dare stand up against tyranny, against a stolen election, against, you know, Joe Biden bought and paid for by China, this communist-sponsored coup d'etat stolen from Donald Trump.
00:22:17.840I mean, you can't have these federal non-elected agencies coming in and running rampant in your guys' territories, and I'm glad that you stand with that, and you have that message for the rest of the sheriffs, too.
00:22:31.740you know, assert your constitutional duty to protect your citizens. That's beautiful.
00:22:38.480So moving on from there, Chris, I know that you've gotten intricately involved and emotionally,
00:22:44.860spiritually, and financially involved in helping out this January 6th movement and getting to know
00:22:49.800the families and the faces and the people behind it. What do you think? I mean, what's your look
00:22:56.500and your takeaway about who these January 6ers are? I mean, what do we represent? Are we
00:23:01.720we a bunch of criminals are we deserving of 22 years in prison like enrique tario or i mean are
00:23:08.940these people that you would call your your allies these are the the ones i've met so far and i'm
00:23:17.080just speaking for the having come into the game a little bit late compared to other people who
00:23:22.640have been involved since day one i i will say that the ones i've met so far by and large i
00:23:29.020These are people I'd want to, I'd trust, you know, babysitting my kids or my nieces and nephews.
00:23:51.920So these are people that I think are people you want in your community.
00:23:59.020It's, you know, like every other cop, I deal with people who are constant problems and don't necessarily, they're not the kind of people that contribute to the community, for lack of a better way to say it, but this is not who these people are.
00:24:15.140I mean, again, these are people that you want in your community, by and large, and I think that from what I've seen, they are being targeted for their political beliefs, if not their faith as well.