29. The Last Danceļ¼ Developing Winning Tendencies Part 2
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Summary
In this episode, we discuss the idea of tanking to get a better draft pick, why it's bad business, and why it should never be done in the first place. We also talk about the Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant situation, and how it changed the way we look at sports.
Transcript
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So one of the things that I thought was really interesting is that, um, Michael Jordan got
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hurt early on in his career and, um, and he, he basically, you know, was rehabbing and
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he was saying like, I'm good. I can play. And the, the front office was like, no, no, it's
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too dangerous. And they said, there's like a 10% chance and it's like 10% chance. So
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he really fought them. He, he, he fought them. He wanted any playing time he could get because
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he was such a competitor. Well, what it became clear is that they didn't want him to play
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because they didn't want him to win games because they didn't, they wanted to be able
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to get a good draft pick. And Jordan really had like no sympathy for that. He's like,
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no, you play the game to win. I don't like the idea of tanking games so that we get a
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good draft pick, but it is good business. So what do you guys think about that?
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I would never do it. Not only you'd never do it. I mean, out of the sales world. Okay.
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So this is like, well, I'm going to tell you why I would never do it ever, ever, ever.
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It's not good business. It's, it's, it's terrible business for a lot of reasons. Here's why.
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One, pay the fans pay to see a product, right? That's it. And if you're not going to give
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them the product of the best of your ability, you don't deserve to have fucking fans. Yeah.
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That's what happened in St. Louis here with Kroenke. Kroenke fucking tanked the Rams,
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refused to get good players, refused to get good coaching, refused to fucking actually even try to
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win. And then he turned around and blamed it on St. Louis. Like we're a bunch of fucking jackass.
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No, we're not. We're actually the best sports fans in the fucking world. You're the worst
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motherfucking owner that ever existed. A hundred percent. Okay. So I don't agree with
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that from a principal standpoint. It's not the right thing to do. I also, and this is
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why it's terrible business. It's not just bad business to do this, but what you're doing
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by doing that is you're inviting the culture of losing into your fucking winning organization
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and do that should never be acceptable. And even if you do it on a, even if you do it on
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a minimal scale like that, that cancer is so infectious, you know, like how they're talking
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about, you know, COVID being so contagious, the fucking cancer of losing is a million times
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more contagious than fucking COVID. I promise you that.
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Sally. No, I mean, dude, I couldn't agree. You couldn't agree more.
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Fucking get it back. And, and the, it's the, it's the mentality of winning to be the best
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that you, once you start negotiating with that terrorist, like, dude, it's you're fucked.
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Right. And then you let it into your walls, you're double fucked. And you know, I think
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that's where Michael's mentality. And I always say this about sales, you know, in sales, like
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people will hold the deal so they can jam it through next month because they're, they've
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already hit this month's quota. That's if they're doing that, they're going to, they're
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going to end up broke. Yeah. It's loser mentality. And you know, again, it goes back to being
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aggressive. I'm always in the gas, always in the fucking gas and I'm always planning
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to win. I'm always planning to get the deal. I'm always trying to fucking move. And I'm
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hoping that my, you know, my competition is sitting back waiting for it. Cause I'm going
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to fucking keep going, you know? And so when I tell, when people say, Oh, I'm gonna hold
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the deal for next month, I automatically know what that person's, what their mentality
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is automatically agree. It's like, Oh, I hit this quota. You should be smashing this
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fucking quota and then go smash next month's quota.
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You could tell people will tell you who the fuck they are by little shit. Like what
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he's saying, they will fucking tell you, you know, like you're working out with someone
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and you know, they skip out on that last three reps. You know what I'm saying? Shit
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like that. Fucking salespeople, you know, like dude, when I'm in doubt of anything, fucking
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anything, when I'm in doubt, like dude, you see me train at your house and you see me, you
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see me write my little sets up on the fucking whiteboard. Sometimes I forget to write
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them up there. Do you know, do you know what I do? I do another set cause I didn't write
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on the motherfucking board because dude, I don't, I'm not taking the chance that maybe
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I forgot. Like, cause you know what I'm saying? Like, cause it's what I'm thinking in my head
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is like, Oh, did I get five or six sets? Well, I only have five on the board, but I think
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I forgot one. Well then that's that don't count. I gotta do it again. You see what I'm
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saying? Yeah. And that's dude, you have to, you dude, if you want to be a champion, like
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if you want to be a fucking successful person, dude, I'm not a fucking champion. I'm just
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a semi successful business guy, but I'm working to be a motherfucking champion. Okay. And to
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have that mentality, you have to start implementing it in every area. You know, like that's why
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people laugh when they hear me talk about the piss on the toilet seat. But like, dude, if
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you leave piss on the toilet seat, I can tell everything I need to know about you. You
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know what I'm saying? And I know, and Sal, you know this, I know I'm going to beat you
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at anything. Well, I mean, I, I, I try to do it in every single aspect of my life. Like
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DJ, how's my grass look? Grass looks amazing. Amazing. I strive it in three directions. Yeah.
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You know what I'm saying? You know why? Cause if I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna be the best
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at it. Yeah. Cause no one else fucking do that. No, that's it. You walk in my house. Like
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how do you do that? Tell me later. You always mow the white stripe. The white
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stripes, the stripe. That's the stripe you're going after. But anyway, that's neither.
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That's, that's fucking big league shit. You're too urban for that. No, but I mean
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like, dude, like, you know, like when you, I don't care where you're going. I don't
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care. You, you should be, you should be dressed. You should be represented. You
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should fucking be playing for your reputation. You should. And I know, I know when my name
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spoken and anything competitive comes up, I guarantee you, they know that's one
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competitive motherfucker. Oh bro. You know how many people fucking motherfuck both of
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us for being like that? Yeah. And I don't care. I hear it all the time. I get
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fucking people all the time. Well, and for seller fuckers. Oh yeah. You know what
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dude, because we fucking care and we want to be the best. And do we both
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understand from a fucking very young age? Cause we were fortunate to have a great
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upbringing that do the shit matters. You know what I'm saying? Like it matters. The
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details fucking matter and they matter the most when no one's going to catch you on
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them. That's what people miss. People think the details matter when you're
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going to get caught. No man, the details matter way more when no one's going to
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catch you. Right. Who you are and no one's looking. So another aspect of the
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front office issue that came into play with this documentary is that this, this
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just boggles my mind, but there was this controversy basically with Scottie Pippen
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because here, you know, he's the number two guy on the bulls. He is easily top
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five, if not top two best players in the league at the time. Better defensive player
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than anybody in the league. Early on, he signed a contract. It was, it was, I think
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it was like a 10 year contract for what would today be considered peanut feed. I mean, it
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was very, but the reason he did that is that he was from a poor family. He really felt like
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he needed to support his, his, his mom and dad. Well, at one point there, like he
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was the years later, you know, seven years later after he's become, he's helped build
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this dynasty. Um, he wants to renegotiate and Jerry Reinstorf's like, no, we're not
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renegotiating. I mean, we, we set that in stone and, um, and he was literally the
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hundred and twenty first paid highest, uh, paid athlete in the NBA. And so the question
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for me is because the whole premise of the, of this documentary is this is the last hurrah
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because after this, they know Scottie's leaving. They know Jordan's probably a couple of years
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from retirement. This is our last chance to, to, to get a, another W a championship. You
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guys talk all the time about, you know, not being so nearsighted and just doing anything
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about money, everything about money that you do the right thing and, and things take
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care of itself. Would the right thing have been for Jerry Reinstorf to say, all right,
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this is one of the greatest players in the history of the game. We're going to give him
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his money. We're going to renegotiate in the short term. It's going to cost me more money,
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but we might be able to keep this team together for longer. What do you think?
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Like what I think? Yeah. I fucking would have paid him. Yeah. And I probably would have
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paid him more than he fucking asked. Yeah. And I probably would have a reputation
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in that club of paying people more than what they're worth so that they didn't fucking come
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and, and bitch about it. Yeah. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. Um, I firmly believe that
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you take care of people that take care of you, right? That's it. So I probably would have paid
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him. Um, I mean, I don't know how much a franchise makes when they actually win the championship,
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but I can't imagine that Michael didn't have at least a couple more years in him. If he's asking
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to be the fucking, you know, it depends on what the fuck he wanted. Like, I don't know what he
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wanted. I don't, I think he just wanted to be paid what he was worth at that point. I think that's
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fair. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I mean, I don't know where this transition, but you saw, you started to
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see in the late nineties where contracts became very numbers driven, very production driven. Um,
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you know, you produce, you win, right. You don't produce, you don't win, you know, and that's
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where the guaranteed money started sliding around a little bit. And then, and so I would imagine,
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and I don't know enough about this topic to, I would imagine that particular deal probably played
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a huge role in the transition of contracts for the NBA based off production, you know, because
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if you produce, you should get paid. I mean, our sales guys, right. They produce, they get paid.
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I agree with that. You know, that's how I see it. I see that you should get paid for what the fuck
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you're, what the value you bring. Right. And if I'm the, if I'm the decision maker of that
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organization, I'm looking at his stats. I'm looking at how important he is to the team. I'm looking at
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how much revenue he drives. What are his Jersey sales? What are his this? What are his that? What's he
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doing in the community? And then I'm looking at what has he done for us? Right. That was above
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what he got paid for. Yeah. Then I'm making a decision. Yeah. And I think, you know, I mean,
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Jerry Reinsdorf's known for being a fucking cheap ass, isn't he? Right. So, cause he owned the White
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Sox as well. I think so. Yes, he did. So, yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, like you got to look to,
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you know, you think back, like, I mean, but that doesn't mean that the Duke could come in and demand
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everything. Like some of these dudes demand, I don't think Scotty was like that. I really don't. I think he was
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like, I just want to be paid. I'm like, I don't want to be the 121st. Well, he shouldn't have
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highest paid. He's a team guy. If he was the third best player, second best player, he should
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be paid. Yeah. Accordingly. Yeah. Yeah. And there's always going to be some slide rules in
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there. You know what I mean? Like, but I think like, I do think Jerry Krause, who was the guy
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below him, I think he did a really good job putting together that team. I think actually Michael
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Jordan's kind of hard on Jerry Krause. I've heard a lot of people say that Jerry did a good job. He just
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wasn't real good with people, but really at the end of the day, it's very possible that the success of
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the bulls was in spite of the front office that they didn't really create an amazing culture.
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And the players were just so incredibly dominant because to your point, Andy, you always say,
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you know, success is not what you are. It's what you could have been. Right. Well, it's not,
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it's not taking away from the bulls. They didn't, that they didn't get more championships, but it
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could be that if the front half office helped them and were more of the culture that the players
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actually represented, maybe they could have had three more, you know? Well, I, I would say there's
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validity to that. There's a lot of organizations, not just in sports, but in business that win
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because the players are fucking good and they just good. And, uh, yeah, but sometimes there's a
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real, there's a really nice piece of just fuck you pie, meaning like, fuck you. I'm going to prove
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you wrong. Well, I get that. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, if they're, if they're in there, it's like,
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Hey, fuck them. We're going to go do it anyway. Yeah. But what I'm saying is, you know, there are
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businesses that win in the short term because their employees are talented. Yeah. And there are teams that
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win in the short term because they're fucking players are talented. Right. The bulls are a,
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that, that situation where they won six titles. Right. Um, is a bit of an anomaly because normally
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you would say, well, you'd have to have a great culture to produce that much of a dynasty, but
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you really don't, when you have only five guys, six guys that, that do the majority of
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the, they probably had their own little subculture that probably overran the ability to produce
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a culture in the, in the bulls organization. I mean, how the fuck do you get Michael Jordan
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to do your fucking culture? Right. I mean, right. You get what I'm saying? So like, I, I don't
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know. I don't, I, if they had a lack of culture, you can't necessarily blame it on the ownership
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because there's certain people that are just so fucking good that they, that, that everybody
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in your organization starts to follow fucking what they do. What do you do? Well, I, but
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there's, there's another side of that coin too, because you look at the, the Yankees of
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the two thousands, the early two thousands, they were trying to buy their way to the, to
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the winds. I get it. And it doesn't work. I get it. You take all the talent in the world.
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That's a different scenario. Well, they, they, they were buying all the talent. The talent
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had no culture. They had no culture and they wouldn't win the, but yeah. But what I'm saying
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is the bulls, they had their own culture. The players have their own. Yeah, of course.
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The fuck. That's my point. The Yankees did not have that. That's why they didn't win.
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They didn't have team leadership. You know, they say they did right. Like the captain,
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everybody talks about Jeter, blah, blah, blah. Well, clearly they didn't cause they would
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if they did, they would have had fucking nine, 10 titles. That's truth based on statistical
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fucking. So, you know, no, no, no knock on Jeter. I'm fucking sure he's, I mean, dude,
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he's fucking one of the best baseball players ever, but we're talking about culture and that's
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a different thing. Right. Jeter had his own culture though. He had the Jeter package.
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I've heard about the Jeter package. The Jeter package. You know, the Jeter package.
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I'm sure. If you spent, if you spent the night at Jeter's house and you were a female,
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he sent you home with a Jeter package. No, I signed a ball. I think he got a ball, a Jersey,
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a couple of tickets to a game and he'd have the driver meet him downstairs, take him home.
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And there's a funny story. Shut the fuck up. Yeah. I've heard that. Yeah. I, yeah. There's
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a funny story. And I don't know if I was on bar stools or where I saw it, but the same girl got
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the package twice. He didn't know he was, he was, he was on the repeat. Oh man. So yeah,
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fucking bro. So he had a, he had a different, apparently he had a different apartment and he
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would go do what he needed to get done. He would, he would sneak out and leave him with a Jeter
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gift and then it would get him home. Hey man, crazy. That's some dirty dog shit. We know when
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you're the shortstop of the Bronx bombers, you get a gift. So this is an aspect of excellence
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that a lot of people are sort of gun shy to talk about, but I know this is something you
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feel strongly about. One of the other things that's very, very clear in this, in this documentary
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is, uh, Michael is a sort of legendary for keeping grudges. So he just hated it that he
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got cut from his, what was it? High school or junior high? He hated it that he got cut
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from that. Uh, there's this great scene where in the documentary where he talks about, you
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know, what's funny was that the motherfucker to cut him the best thing he ever fucking did
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or the hit that we, we think he's remembered for now. You know what I'm saying? Was it
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fucking, who was it? Uh, who cut him? It's a, some high school way, uh, Roy, somebody
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or I think it isn't a, it's not Roy Williams. No, no, no, no, no, no. This was a high school
00:15:21.500
guy, but, but I'm saying like, dude, this guy's probably remembered his whole life for cutting
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Michael Jordan. Yeah, he is. But so there's two sides to look at it because on the one hand,
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I think Jordan has been kind of unfair to that guy. Um, and there's been a lot of sports
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basically saying this guy made the right decision at the time. Like Michael Jordan was not the player
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that he is now. So he made the right decision. But the flip side of that is that Jordan just
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didn't let go of that. It really drove him. And then there's this great scene in the documentary
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where it talks about Jordan was playing golf with a couple of the bosses Celtics. And of course,
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this was at the time where, you know, Larry Bird was still the, they were still good. They were
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still very good. Space jam. Yeah. Yeah. And they, uh, they basically like he did, he had a bad day
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on the golf course. And so they talked trash with him and, uh, the next day and he was like pissed,
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like huge chip on his shoulder. And the next day was the, he, he, uh, he said, well, I'm gonna have
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a little surprise for you guys tomorrow. And he scored 69 points in the NBA. Now they didn't win
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because the rest of the team wasn't very good, but he dropped 69 points. So my question is with
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regard to excellence, and I'm going to ask you that and I'm going to step out and go to the bathroom
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myself. I know you guys were wanting to know that, but my question is, um, what's the role of
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negative energy and darkness and, and, and, and chip on your shoulder in driving excellence.
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You guys kind of know what I would say to that. I mean, I've talked about it a whole bunch,
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you know, I got a fucking list that grows every motherfucking day, dude. That's the truth. Um,
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I don't know. I feel like things are going pretty well for me, so it must work out. Okay.
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I don't, I mean, I don't know what you think. No, I mean, I, I agree, but I feel like there's
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also a balance you got to have too, because being too hard on yourself. Yeah. Well, I think
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this is where, I mean, internet are black and white and a lot of things. Like I, I actually
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think, I don't want to say I think exactly the opposite, um, because I don't forget those
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things, but they are not my fuel. I just always remember like when I want to quit, it's something
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I'm not my fuel. No, no, I'm not saying all, but it's, it's not my, my fuels. I want to be
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the best version of me. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And I don't give a fuck about
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them, but I don't forget about them. Yeah. That's kind of how I look at it. I'm like
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an elephant. I won't forget that. No. Like the grudge thing that he said, like, dude,
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I'm the fucking same way. Like, dude, if you fuck with me, I will never forget it. You
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know? And I mean, you know that I'm going to smile at you. I'll be your friend. I'll
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shake your fucking hand, but I'm going to destroy you on the competition field, whatever
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that is, you know? So, I mean, I think it has a lot to do with it. And I think there's
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two kinds of people. I think there's people who take in criticism and negativity and, and
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things they view as slights and they hang on to that shit and it buries them for life.
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And they say, dude, you know what? My dad told me I was this. My fucking guidance counselor
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told me I was this. My coach told me I sucked. My, my fucking girlfriend said I would be a
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loser. And right. And then they, and they go become those things. Right. Because they're
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just like, well, I guess that's what the fuck I am. And then there's the people who get told
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the same shit and they're like, you know what? Fuck you. I'm going to fucking shove it down
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your throat. And that's the kind of person I am. I've always been that way. Like I don't
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relate to people who aren't that way. I just don't. And like, I catch a lot of heat from
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that too. People like I had a lady not too long ago. She's like, Oh, you know, where's
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the growth at? Like you're a successful man now and this and that, and you're not this
00:18:44.220
kid anymore. No motherfucker. I am that kid because I'm nowhere near where the fuck I
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want to be. You're putting your goals on me. You're saying that you would be satisfied
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where I'm at, which is exactly why you ain't the fuck there. That's the truth.
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Preach. Yeah. So my mentality and people don't understand, I don't compare myself to fucking
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no offense to like other business owners that are similar size. I'm not doing that. I'm comparing
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myself to the best motherfuckers that ever walked this fucking earth ever. And people don't get
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that. So yeah, laugh and yeah, make fun of me. And yeah, say we'll never do it because every one of
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those comments never gets forgotten by me. And that only produces an effect that benefits lots of
00:19:34.300
other people. So I'm, I welcome the negative energy. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like
00:19:41.280
people in a hurry to try to grow out of it because it's not popular, you know? And it, and you know
00:19:46.120
what? It doesn't feel that good. And you know what? It probably would make me more sane and happier
00:19:53.400
if I would let shit go a little bit, but it feels pretty good when those times, whenever I sit down
00:20:01.460
and I look around and I'm at my fucking house, that's beautiful. And I'm looking around and
00:20:06.140
I look at our company and I'm proud of everybody in it. And I see the fucking good job. Everybody's
00:20:12.100
doing. And I see all these careers. I mean, hundreds and hundreds of careers. And, uh,
00:20:18.380
you know, dude, it's hard not to think about all those motherfuckers that said, dude, I was stupid
00:20:22.040
or that I'd never be shit or that we were wasting our time. I fucking think about it all the time.
00:20:28.080
And it makes me fucking smile. And that feeling is a good feeling. People don't relate to it
00:20:33.640
because they don't ever get to the point where they fucking prove those people wrong. And then
00:20:38.280
they say, well, you're just, you're just motivated by people. You should prove people right, not
00:20:44.120
prove people wrong. Motherfucker. You ain't got it. No, it's true. I'll tell you the way I look at it is,
00:20:50.760
uh, nuclear energy is a really powerful energy. You can blow up a city with it, or you can use it to
00:20:57.980
microwave a hot pocket. That's right. So, you know, you can use that, that, that negative energy
00:21:02.600
in a positive way, or you can use it to beat yourself up. So why not, you know, why not use
00:21:07.220
something so powerful in a positive way? Dude, that's all you, that's the whole trick. The whole
00:21:11.540
trick is to take it and to not like, this is where people get it fucked up, right? They get themselves
00:21:16.960
in a rage. You're like, they're mad or they're feeling angry. So-and-so said this, I fuck them.
00:21:22.500
And they feel that for like a minute. And then they just go back to doing what the fuck they were
00:21:28.920
doing. The key to this is that when you're feeling that is to get up and move and do something that
00:21:34.840
contributes to whatever the fuck they said you couldn't do. Well, if they said you were going to
00:21:39.280
be a fat ass, then when you start thinking about them calling you a fat ass, get the fuck up and go
00:21:43.760
walk for 30 minutes. Okay. When they say you're broke and you ain't ever going to be shit, you know
00:21:49.680
what? When you start thinking about that and how that hurt you, that's when you open up your
00:21:52.920
fucking laptop and you start doing some shit to get better. That's it. Well, I mean, I have a real
00:21:58.140
world example of this. I mean, you know, when I left my job at J and J, you know, basically took a,
00:22:03.440
not basically took a 50% pay cut. And I remember there's only five people or six people. One of
00:22:08.600
these days I'll start paying you back that pay cut sale. Well, I think, I think I've earned my,
00:22:16.420
my worth in the grand scheme of life here. Um, but I mean, you start looking at like,
00:22:22.320
there was only five or six people that supported. That was it. Five or six. There was fucking two
00:22:27.940
motherfucker. It was me and your dad. It was three. It was me. It was you. And it was dad.
00:22:32.880
Yeah. And Raquel. That was it. I mean, and, and I mean all, I mean, I remember everybody else was
00:22:37.400
confused. Yeah. They didn't want to say it. They're like, and I'll fucking say it. They fucking
00:22:43.360
thought I was a fucking joke. And they're like, why the fuck are you who's out doing great shit
00:22:49.880
with a great job and a safe career? And you're kicking ass going to work for you who hasn't made
00:22:56.020
shit in 10 fucking years. And that's the truth. And you think I don't remember that shit. I fucking
00:23:02.060
remember that he fucking remembers it. Yeah. Yeah. So, but like, I don't work out about a spite.
00:23:07.000
I work out of a, so well, how fuck I got to win. I got to prove wrong. Like in my head,
00:23:11.300
I don't, I don't, I could, you know, I just, I'm not the, like, trust me. I, I'm the twist
00:23:16.460
the knife and you fuck you guys. I just do it differently. It takes both mentalities. Like
00:23:20.200
you're saying, I don't think one's right or wrong. No, dude, that's why I said it depends
00:23:23.540
on the person. Right. But I'm going to tell you one thing for sure. You can't be a fucking
00:23:28.460
champion or be great at what it is you do, unless you learn how to pivot that negative
00:23:33.420
shit into positive action. So if you, if you can't learn that, or you don't buy into it as a
00:23:38.840
real thing, or you don't think it's important, you will not win anything. It's the, it's the
00:23:43.480
opening part portion of the fucking podcast. Yeah. Like you can hum, but the work's going
00:23:48.420
to fucking produce the fucking wind. That's why I get so mad about that shit. People are
00:23:52.020
like, why do you get so mad at the spiritual people? Because, because dude, these motherfuckers
00:23:58.240
don't tell the whole truth. They tell part the truth, which is the problem with most people.
00:24:02.120
Yeah. Okay. They say, dude, I'm going to lead a live meditation today on the blah, blah,
00:24:09.520
blah. Right. And then they do it. And that's cool. And by the way, just so you know, I'm
00:24:13.800
never, ever referring to Dr. Nicole. When I say this shit, Nicole, the power. Yeah. She's
00:24:18.920
awesome. I just want everybody to know that I think she is the best person on the fucking
00:24:23.660
internet to follow. If you, if you want to figure out what the fuck's going on upstairs and
00:24:29.800
for all the, you know, you want to get in touch with the more of the softer stuff,
00:24:34.300
bro, she's it. Everybody else is a fucking bullshitter. She's it. So I'm never talking
00:24:39.400
about her, but everybody else. Okay. Like, dude, you guys, you, you, you see all these,
00:24:47.320
these positive things that, that are put out and I could appreciate that for 30 seconds.
00:24:53.480
You know, Hey, that's a nice thought, but guess what happens after that nice thought? I'm
00:24:57.500
back in the fucking, I'm back in the fucking trenches over here. You know what I'm saying?
00:25:01.280
Like, dude, and people don't realize like, and this is why I go hard on them. So, so,
00:25:07.380
so much is because dude, it's only fucking part of the puzzle. The other part of the puzzle
00:25:12.120
is the hard part. That's the part where you're going to have to go get your fucking nuts kicked
00:25:16.540
in 50 fucking times a day for 10 years. Okay. Now the mental part, the meditation and the,
00:25:24.000
the, the shit that I talk about that can help you deal with that. But if you're looking at that as
00:25:31.620
your only solution to becoming like, you know, the people, everybody's looking for the inner peace.
00:25:36.520
You ain't going to have inner peace motherfucker. If you ain't out doing something in real world that
00:25:40.080
you're proud of, you're just not not like that. Inner peace comes from putting in the work.
00:25:44.320
That's right. You know, inner peace. That's never talked about from these fuckers.
00:25:47.820
They're convincing people who are looking for an answer and looking for a solution and looking for
00:25:53.100
something to hang on to as hope. And these people are fucking predatorily
00:25:58.960
preying on them. And I would argue that a lot of these people are counterproductive because what
00:26:05.060
happens when you get someone who's meditating and they're doing this and they're doing that and
00:26:11.060
they're doing all this shit, but their problems aren't really fixing themselves. They feel better
00:26:17.120
about their problems. Kind of like, I kind of feel good that I meditated for 20 minutes,
00:26:22.460
but they're not like actually fixing the problem. And that there's a huge disconnect there in, in,
00:26:30.560
in our world. And especially on, on Instagram and social media, guys, if you think I'm just talking
00:26:37.380
shit and I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, I challenge you to go look at any of those
00:26:41.840
motherfuckers lives and then come look at my life. Okay. Cause I'm going to promise you my life is
00:26:47.580
pretty fucking cool. You know what I'm saying? You got to do some real shit to make shit happen
00:26:53.740
for yourself. There's a lot of success. People who listen to this podcast generally want to win
00:26:58.980
and be successful. So I am not talking, Hey, you can't have meditation in your life or you can't have
00:27:07.820
these other tools. But what I'm saying is if you don't get the fuck up and sweat and do some hard
00:27:14.740
fucking work and put in your, your energy into an actual fucking real life thing, it's going to be
00:27:20.140
a very empty process for you to go through all that. And that's what I'm, that's my beef with that,
00:27:25.800
you know? And I wish people would just, I wish people would accept that, or at least come to a
00:27:34.300
realization of that. You need two things, not just one thing. You get what I'm saying?
00:27:39.560
Yeah, for sure. I think we should do something really unusual and wrap up this discussion of
00:27:46.040
excellence, uh, with a reference to Tiger King and Joe Exotica. I have a, what I think is a profoundly
00:27:52.500
deep and insightful, uh, urban, it's very, very urban, urban, uh, insight into Joe Exotica. But I would
00:28:01.140
like to know, DJ, you've seen it because nobody else has seen it, right? I've seen it. Oh, you've
00:28:05.100
seen it? Who the fuck hasn't seen Tiger King? Well, I thought you hadn't seen it. You didn't
00:28:08.800
see Tiger King? All right. So everybody's seen it. So here's DJ. So to just general, if I were to ask
00:28:13.420
you like, what do you think is actually something really, really like laudable, like praiseworthy
00:28:18.400
about Joe Exotica, what would you say? I think the, one of the best things that I like is how he was
00:28:22.880
able to take felons and people who didn't have jobs and drug addicts and give them a decent job
00:28:28.600
to make a decent living, gave them housing, gave them food. I mean, it might've been out of the
00:28:32.900
Walmart truck, but to continue them to be drug addicts. I mean, that's a safe haven so that they
00:28:38.600
can continue the process. He was good and bad. Let's focus on something good. Yeah. Yeah. What
00:28:44.720
was good? He helped people. And I like, I did like that aspect of it. Well, I like, you know,
00:28:48.580
when that girl got her arm bit off and he throws on that fucking medic jacket like 30 fucking seconds,
00:28:53.780
dude, and goes into the conference room and gives people rain checks. Where the fuck do you come up
00:28:58.260
with a fucking medical jacket, bomber jacket and literally fucking 0.5 seconds. Right. Like,
00:29:04.640
dude, that's the shit that I think about. That's what keeps me up at night. How the fuck did Joe
00:29:09.360
exotic get his, his medic jacket on fast enough to like, when this girl, like her arm gets bit off
00:29:16.840
and he doesn't think like, Oh fuck. His first thought is like, let me go get my fucking jacket,
00:29:21.940
dude. Like that's fucking weird. But I'll say this. Okay. I agree with DJ. He created,
00:29:28.240
a little bit of a, like a little family culture there and that's not all bad. Right. Did it serve
00:29:32.780
himself? Absolutely. Did he, did he? Yeah, there it is, dude. The famous jacket, bro. Look at that
00:29:39.060
motherfucker. That's official as fuck. Meanwhile, she's about to bleed out. Yeah, dude. You wouldn't
00:29:44.480
think to like tourniquet her arm or like, dude, you know, you go put on your fucking jacket for the
00:29:48.920
gram, dude. That's right. He's a fucking dude. He's a flexing. So the, uh, I, you know what I liked
00:29:55.100
about him, dude, honestly, cause dude, let's be real. The whole appeal to the show is that he's
00:29:58.720
sort of likable, right? That's the appeal to the show. Yes. So the appeal to the dude, here's what
00:30:04.460
I like. People are going to fucking think it's ridiculous, but like, look, man in life, dude,
00:30:09.460
nobody really believes in you. There's very few people that believe in you and I respect and give
00:30:18.860
ultimate credit to people that believe in themselves. And while everybody else is laughing
00:30:23.580
at his country videos, his country music video and you know who he's, you know, his show and all
00:30:29.520
these things, dude, I just love the fact that the guy believed in himself enough to like, just
00:30:36.660
fearlessly do it. You know what I'm saying? I respect that. Like, dude, he looked like, like,
00:30:42.560
let's be real, dude. Like the guy's funny. Like he was funny and we kind of make fun of him. It's
00:30:48.260
kind of like, you know, we're making fun of him honestly for kind of cause he's a little
00:30:52.600
off. Right. So like, I, but, but it dude, if you break that part down, like I dig that
00:30:58.180
like people who step up and like, dude, those are my favorite people to follow on Instagram
00:31:02.000
too. The people who are like, they're not the big people. Like, dude, you know how many
00:31:06.380
great people I see on Instagram that put out fucking amazing content that have like 8,000
00:31:11.760
followers. Right. That should, they should have millions of followers. I agree. Absolutely.
00:31:16.120
And like, dude, see, I like people like that. Yeah. And, uh, so, so my favorite thing about,
00:31:21.420
about Joe, uh, was that, you know, he, he wasn't afraid to go try and do his dreams.
00:31:28.680
Like, you know, like, dude, you want to make a music video, make a motherfucking music video.
00:31:32.500
I can tell you right now, I'll make a music video soon too. And you're all going to fucking
00:31:35.560
love it. Right. That's so, so in the interest of full disclosure, I haven't seen all of them.
00:31:40.240
So I don't know all of the, I, I don't know all of the bad things that he's associated with.
00:31:44.960
No, but like people, you know, dude, the meme world, right? Like it's kind of cool though,
00:31:48.140
because the me, the social media world, like they made fun of them, but they were also not
00:31:53.520
so hard on, like they get it. Right. Like, you know, the meme world, even they're still like
00:31:57.360
pumping them up. Like, yeah. Well, what I was going to say, no, he's a very sympathetic character.
00:32:01.580
He's like a very screwed up guy, but like, you know, I think it was Muhammad Ali said,
00:32:06.200
you know, don't judge, don't judge. How about Muhammad Ali get a fucking quote on Joe Exotic,
00:32:10.100
bro? Well, Muhammad Ali said, don't judge any man until you walk in his shoes, you know? And I would
00:32:13.880
say like, I can't even imagine my dad saying to me, Hey, promise me you'll never come to my funeral.
00:32:19.280
Like that's that, you know, we don't. Yeah. And not only that, like, dude, like that's crazy.
00:32:23.080
Like, look, dude, I'm not sympathizing with him. A lot of the animal people are going to get pissed
00:32:26.340
off. Like, dude, I don't like, I don't like animals being kept like that and all that shit. I'm not
00:32:30.720
against, I'm against that. But I'm just saying from a person standpoint, you know,
00:32:36.100
you want to find something good about the dude. I do like how he created like his own
00:32:40.120
little family oasis of misfits. Yeah. People who don't fit in other places. You wouldn't
00:32:44.460
care about him regardless. No. And I dig that. And that's why those people were loyal to him.
00:32:48.360
Like that girl got her arm bit off and she's still like, no, this is my family. Right.
00:32:52.340
So dude, he's a, he's actually a, a great culture builder. Right. Like by default,
00:32:57.320
that's what I was going to say. So number one, you interview Hitler, then two,
00:33:00.520
the two, I bring Joe Exotica, Joe Exotica in the culture.
00:33:03.960
I got about four episodes in and I thought, man, I hang out with some fucked up people,
00:33:09.520
bro. Me too. I was like, what the fuck am I watching? Never during the course of the show.
00:33:15.400
Did I get the show? I mean, either. Like, you know how like you watch the show and then you're
00:33:19.540
like, it's kind of slow, but all your friends said it was good. So you stick it out. Yeah. And so
00:33:24.400
like, but, but that's what happened the whole show. Like usually you get to a point and you're
00:33:28.180
like, Oh dude, all right. I see why everybody liked this show. Yeah. But I went through the whole
00:33:32.020
motherfucker. Like looking for that point. I was like, look at the whole time. I'm like,
00:33:36.120
all right. When is this? When's the time? Like, when's the time I'm going to get it?
00:33:41.180
The joke was on me. I'm like, wait a minute. So it's the test that can you really make it
00:33:45.680
through this whole thing? Exactly. Dude. I kept thinking like, what the fuck? Yeah. But
00:33:49.640
really all it is is like, dude, people, people actually love an underdog. I'm convinced that
00:33:54.960
people, people just enjoyed watching it because as fucked up as they were, it makes you feel
00:33:58.940
normal. Well, I think, I think it caught two groups. I think it caught the group of
00:34:02.340
like us, like everybody I'm saying us, like the people who listen to the podcast
00:34:07.060
who are like thinking the same kind of thing I'm thinking. And then they kind of
00:34:10.840
like start to like Joe a little bit and they kind of, they're kind of like, Holy
00:34:13.540
fuck, dude, this is actually happening. And you go through like multiple phases of
00:34:17.220
it. Right. And then, you know, at the end, you're kind of like, what the fuck did I
00:34:22.760
just watch? I wanted to, I thought at some point in time, you're going to start
00:34:26.840
hearing Jerry, Jerry, Jerry. I'll be real, dude. Every episode I watched, I was, I was
00:34:32.320
fucking smoking. So like, I was a little bit wondering if it was just me or if the
00:34:37.900
show was like fucked up. No, it's definitely. Yeah. But like, I feel like the reason the
00:34:44.740
show was so popular is because the first group kind of like what we just discussed. And I
00:34:48.380
think the second group, they just love seeing people fucking fuck shit up. Yeah. And the
00:34:53.160
guys constantly fucking shit up. Yeah. And people love that. And I don't love
00:34:59.180
that. That, that makes me hurt, dude. Yeah. Like when I see people just keep
00:35:02.420
fucking their shit up, dude. Yeah. It bothers me. Did Joe Exotic see the guy that
00:35:08.200
taught you how to doc? So your first doc. Well, he taught you how to line it up just
00:35:14.160
right. What it came down for me is that, you know, obviously the guy's
00:35:18.920
dysfunctional. Obviously he's gotten some, done some stupid stuff and obviously we
00:35:23.380
don't agree with some of the conditions of, of the way he operated. Come on, man. Do
00:35:27.520
we agree with the way everybody operates? No, but here's what I, here's what I think
00:35:32.440
is very, very, uh, laudable about Joe is that is this, I, I, what's that, what was
00:35:39.720
that word? Laudable. Okay. Explain the word. Oh, it's a admirable, admirable. So, um, I
00:35:46.920
think he genuinely, that was for me. Motherfucker. I think he genuinely, I think
00:35:53.260
he genuinely 1000%, uh, loves those animals, like loves tigers, delights in
00:36:00.320
them. I think he, I think he loves, cares about giving people a good show. And I
00:36:05.720
think because he has so much of that belief and that love in his heart that
00:36:09.580
that's, I mean, the dude is incredibly productive. And so the, the, the thing,
00:36:13.680
the, the phrase that came to my mind is like, this guy is crazy out of his
00:36:18.460
mind, but like, I can't, I thought of your phrase, Andy, uh, caring is not a
00:36:22.860
buzzword. Yeah. Like that guy is successful. Even though he's so screwed
00:36:26.580
up, he's successful because he cares. Well, if he wasn't so screwed up, he
00:36:30.580
actually would have been financially successful. He could have turned that
00:36:34.040
into it. A real thing told my teacher, dumb bitch. I'm going to get millions. Watch
00:36:38.820
this in the project. Living down. Spoke it till existence. While I, I'm from where you can't