Rebel News Podcast - Alberta surgeon to Jason Kenney： Advice on a balanced approach to COVID-19

00:00:00.000 Oh, hello, Rebels. You're listening to a free audio-only recording of my weekly Wednesday

00:00:04.300 night show, The Gun Show. Tonight, my guest is Dr. Dennis Modry. He's an Edmonton-based

00:00:12.480 doctor who has been very outspoken about the lockdown and how the government continues to

00:00:20.000 handle the lockdown. Now, if you like listening to the show, then I promise you're going to love

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00:01:07.220 You're listening to a Rebel News Podcast.

00:01:09.320 Alberta, Dr. Dennis Modry says there has always been another way for the Alberta government

00:01:22.080 to handle the coronavirus pandemic and protect hospital capacity. But will the government

00:01:27.800 finally listen? I'm not optimistic. I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed, and you're watching The Gunn Show.

00:01:39.320 Oh, hey everybody. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm not in my home studio today, as you can

00:01:55.140 obviously tell, because my work has taken me out on the road to tell the story of small business

00:01:59.960 owners who are fighting the lockdown by defying it. Today, I'm actually in front of the Crown and

00:02:05.980 Anchor Pub in Edmonton. They are great people, freedom fighters. Please go out and support them.

00:02:11.180 Anyway, a few days ago, on Monday actually, at the Alberta legislature, I met a doctor

00:02:15.820 who says that the Alberta government could have protected hospital capacity while simultaneously

00:02:21.900 protecting the civil liberties of Albertans during the coronavirus pandemic. Now, this doctor's name

00:02:27.300 is Dr. Dennis Modry, and back in December, he wrote an open letter to Premier Jason Kenney.

00:02:32.880 After all of his attempts to reach Jason Kenney through normal channels were completely rebuffed.

00:02:39.220 Now, Modry's not some fly-by-night crockpot. In fact, in our interview, he will go through all of

00:02:47.260 his medical and educational background. So you can see he's not at all some kook. And up until very 0.95

00:02:55.080 recently, I think he counted Jason Kenney as a friend or at least a friendly. Now, Jason Kenney

00:03:03.820 called people who attended a massive protest at the Alberta legislature on Monday, that's where I met

00:03:09.960 Dr. Modry, a protest of 2,000 people. In fact, Jason Kenney called them unhinged conspiracy theorists.

00:03:16.460 But unlike Jason Kenney, I actually spoke to those people, including Dr. Modry, who was a keynote

00:03:23.800 speaker at the event. So joining me now in an interview we recorded yesterday morning when I

00:03:29.500 was back at home in my home studio just for a few minutes, is Dr. Dennis Modry. Take a listen.

00:03:34.640 Dr. Modry, thank you so much for joining me. Why don't you give us a synopsis of your background and

00:03:57.640 who and what you are? Because I've seen a lot of people who are trying to discredit you. And I think

00:04:03.360 it's because you are so outspoken against the lockdown. You know, and they're trying to just

00:04:08.420 say that you're a conspiracy theorist crank, but that's not the sense that I get at all.

00:04:14.700 Well, Sheila, yeah, thank you very much for having me on the show. And I'm happy to provide,

00:04:23.460 you know, my credentials, if you will. You know, one of the things before I start,

00:04:30.420 those people who would disparage my education, my knowledge, or my views about these things

00:04:39.100 really don't know very much about me at all. And a lot of those individuals ideologically

00:04:47.560 may think differently, both politically or with respect to their view of what the knowledge is

00:04:57.620 that has been presented to us regarding how this pandemic has been managed. So with that,

00:05:08.420 I respect people's views who are different than mine. And I respect listening to people whose views

00:05:18.580 are different than mine, particularly when they can provide evidence-based arguments to support their

00:05:25.640 position. It would be wonderful if all of us, in terms of communicating with each other, could listen

00:05:36.440 to different perspectives based on evidence. That doesn't seem to be happening. And we have a tremendous

00:05:43.780 amount of polarization in this world. And that is not at all my intent. My intent really has been to

00:05:51.600 help government through my relationship, my previous relationship with Jason Kenney, who I've known for

00:06:00.800 many, many years. We had many lunches together at the Mayfair in Edmonton when he was the president of

00:06:08.300 the Canadian Taxpayers Association. And he contacted me prior to and subsequent to his election win

00:06:15.240 for certain advice. And so it's been disappointing for me to recognize that the evidence that has occurred

00:06:29.400 and evolved over time has been ignored. And so much of the mainstream media and governments are still

00:06:41.500 embracing the concerns that were present last year when COVID-19 broke out the way it did.

00:06:49.500 So my background is that I trained in medicine at the University of Alberta. I did my BSc in science and I

00:07:05.900 trained in medicine, did my MD there. Then I went to McGill. I spent eight years at McGill training in general

00:07:11.660 surgery, cardiovascular and thoracic surgery, critical care. And I did a master's degree in

00:07:17.180 experimental surgery. And then after that, I went to Stanford University, where I spent three years

00:07:24.300 doing postgraduate work in immunology, as well as high risk cardiovascular and thoracic surgery. And I was the

00:07:33.900 chief resident on the heart and lung transplantation program, as well as the chief resident of the

00:07:41.980 cardiac surgery program as well. So with that background, and actually there's one other

00:07:49.500 interesting feature. Prior to being in medical school, when I was doing my BSc, my interest in

00:07:55.100 transplantation arose because of a fellow by the name of Cease Coobs. It was a cardiac surgeon who

00:08:01.020 seemed to think I had some degree of intelligence. And he put me in his research lab. So at the end of

00:08:07.820 that, I was doing lung preservation and transplantation experiments in dogs prior to even being in medicine.

00:08:18.060 So that was probably how my interest in transplantation came up. Now, when I came back from Stanford University in

00:08:24.700 1984. At that time, I already had that was kind of an interesting time because I was supposed to go back to

00:08:35.500 McGill. And because I had numerous traveling fellowships, etc, etc. But the University of Alberta made me such a

00:08:43.260 strong pitch and the chiefs of cardiac surgery and general surgery came to Stanford and really wanted me

00:08:49.900 to come back to Alberta. And I actually did want to come back to Alberta. And one of the interesting

00:08:53.900 things that happened is when I did that, that McGill sued the University of Alberta. And, and I guess

00:09:01.180 somehow that thing got settled and I wound up here. So during my 30 years of practice here in Edmonton,

00:09:10.380 I founded and directed Western Canada's first heart and lung transplantation program.

00:09:15.580 And I was the director of the cardiovascular intensive care unit. And my focus was on high risk cardiac

00:09:25.020 surgery, transplantation and critical care medicine. So in that time period, particularly dealing with

00:09:33.900 patients who were immunocompromised, so that they wouldn't reject their organs. There was a tremendous

00:09:40.540 amount of effort that was required by a team of which I was involved with to prevent infection and also

00:09:48.860 to prevent rejection. So we were dealing with, you know, controlling viruses, bacteria, rickettsia,

00:09:56.860 protozole, mycobacteria, etc. I mean, all kinds of infectious diseases. So, so that was, that was really my,

00:10:05.420 my, my, my background. And so I've had a tremendous experience in, like I say, critical care and,

00:10:14.220 and dealing with infection as well. So, so what happened after I retired, I was kind of enjoying

00:10:22.620 life and, you know, doing some other things. And then this COVID-19 thing broke out. And like

00:10:30.540 everybody, last, last, last January, February, March, I was concerned, like everybody was, and we always

00:10:39.180 look to the evidence, when we are going to discern what it is we should do individually, what is public

00:10:46.860 policy going to be, etc. And so, when the World Health Organization came out with the suggestion that the,

00:10:53.420 the mortality rate would be 3.4%. Wow, that, that meant that there was going to be a massive number

00:11:04.860 of deaths in relation to COVID-19. So quite correctly, everybody was alarmed, there wasn't a vaccine

00:11:14.220 available, people didn't know what to do. And so, the issue of the risk, the, the lockdowns,

00:11:24.220 masks, social distancing, all seemed to make sense, except there were some things that weren't quite

00:11:29.260 right. For example, in the beginning, as you all know, there was no issue, no, no recommendation early

00:11:38.300 on with respect to social distancing, and then masks were unnecessary. Then over time, it became evident

00:11:46.220 that, not so much evident, but recommendations coming from the World Health Organization,

00:11:53.500 and elsewhere, were such that, well, now we need to wear masks. And there was a need for social

00:12:00.540 distancing, except the funny thing about social distancing, is that there was no evidence for that,

00:12:06.780 just as there was no evidence supporting the use of masks. And it's funny that the, the, if you go back

00:12:16.140 in time, the only, the only reference to social, the six foot social distancing was from a fellow by the

00:12:27.180 name of Carl Flug, and that was just a recommendation, and he made that recommendation over 100 years ago.

00:12:34.780 So you got to ask yourself the question, as, as we're looking at things over time, you have to

00:12:42.780 ask yourself the question, does this make sense? Where's, where's the evidence for that? And to this

00:12:48.220 very day, there, there is no evidence for six foot distancing. And as you know, recently, the NIH came out

00:12:57.820 with the recommendation, or maybe it was the CDC, that social distancing really didn't need to be six

00:13:04.780 feet, it looked like it could be three feet. But what, what they haven't done is they haven't looked at,

00:13:10.380 well, what about if it's an inch or two inches social distancing? In other words, no, no, no distancing at all.

00:13:16.700 They haven't studied that. So these recommendations that have come forward, lack evidence. So, so as,

00:13:26.380 as I was watching things, and I was reading the literature, because my interest was piqued,

00:13:31.580 and I had the background and the education to understand what the studies were, were telling us.

00:13:37.420 And I was quite impressed when I believe it was on October the seventh, when the Great Barrington

00:13:43.660 Declaration came out, and indicated that, that, here's the, here's the evidence, so far, that we

00:13:52.940 have that suggests that masks are unnecessary, social distancing is unnecessary, and lockdowns are

00:14:00.220 unnecessary, but what is necessary is to target the elderly, and those who are immune, immune compromised,

00:14:09.260 particularly individuals who have multiple comorbid conditions. So, so with that, with, with, with that

00:14:17.660 evidence, then I started looking at more data, and it became, it became even clearer to me that, golly,

00:14:30.540 the, the, the lockdowns are actually causing more harm, more deaths, more economic destruction, more

00:14:40.460 educational destruction, more inability for kids to pursue sports and other social activities. This was

00:14:52.700 really stopping society in its tracks, killing businesses, etc. And so, the way

00:15:00.060 of evidence started to shift in, in my mind, as I saw this evidence, indicating that lockdowns were far

00:15:08.780 more harmful than COVID-19, including deaths, more deaths as a result of people exposed to drug abuse.

00:15:21.740 And particularly, the thing that was most galling to me was that so many people became unable to access

00:15:32.780 the healthcare system. And because it's being blocked by saving beds for potential admissions of patients

00:15:42.300 with COVID-19. So, for me, as a cardiovascular and thoracic surgery, dealing with waiting lists,

00:15:48.220 and people having died on waiting lists throughout my entire career, I was looking at this and saying,

00:15:54.460 my goodness, I'm talking to my colleagues at the hospital, and I'm finding out, yeah, they've

00:15:58.780 been cut back by 30%. Well, I know what that, I know what that outcome is. It's more people dying on

00:16:05.740 the waiting list, but it's not just cardiac surgery. It's all kinds of other things. Because in-hospital

00:16:10.860 diagnostic and therapeutic procedures are now restricted as well. So, we know what the outcome

00:16:19.020 is going to be. There are going to be far more deaths, even now there are more deaths from the

00:16:26.700 lockdowns than COVID-19, but there are going to be more in the future because of people unable to

00:16:33.100 access diagnostic studies. Wherein, had they accessed them in a timely fashion, they very likely would

00:16:41.180 have had an opportunity to be cured of their underlying problem. So, looking at all of this

00:16:47.900 material, and I'm thinking, gee, you know, there's no evidence to support lockdowns in particular.

00:16:56.220 So, I thought, well, gee, on December the 11th, as you know, I drafted a letter to the Premier who,

00:17:01.580 like I said earlier, I know quite well. And so, I was hoping that I could have, I called him actually

00:17:09.580 on his private cell, and I emailed him on his private email account. No response. So, I thought,

00:17:18.140 gee, you know, I can't get his attention. So, maybe if I send an open letter and the media picks it up,

00:17:26.700 maybe that will get his attention. And in so doing, I wanted to give him an off ramp

00:17:33.980 against these lockdowns. Well, he didn't take the bait at that time. And of course,

00:17:39.820 and it wasn't the bait, it was really, it was really to have a private discussion with him. Now,

00:17:46.460 it's become an open discussion with all of the public. And I really just simply wanted to

00:17:51.740 talk to him about an alternative approach. So, here it is, you know, we're locked down number one

00:18:01.180 through, or number two, through Christmas. And that brings me back to what he said in the spring last

00:18:08.780 year, early summer, when he said, when he apologized for lockdown number one, because he recognized the

00:18:14.700 harm. So, I thought, well, for sure, he recognized the harm, he would never do this again. So, prior to

00:18:22.780 lockdown number two, he got my letter, it was the open letter, but he did it anyhow. And his rationale

00:18:30.060 was the question of overwhelming the healthcare system. So, as I pointed out to him, there was,

00:18:35.900 it never happened, it didn't even come close. And the lockdown, there's no evidence that that lockdown

00:18:44.220 changed anything. Because the virus is out there, it's been out there, and it's going to spread, it's

00:18:48.860 going to do its thing, there's not a darn thing that you can do about it. That's what viruses do.

00:18:53.100 So, we go through this period, and to my surprise, on March the 11th, I get a response to my first letter.

00:19:01.180 And the response was kind of comical, as far as I was concerned, because, again, it lacked evidence

00:19:10.940 from him. So, I had to send, you know, I'm the sort of person that I will respond if I'm challenged,

00:19:19.100 and I will respond only with evidence. So, I did respond, and I sent him my second open letter on March

00:19:27.260 the 31st. And, of course, I didn't get a response. Now we have lockdown at number three. And again,

00:19:36.620 it's the same narrative that the premier has used, that we cannot overwhelm our healthcare system.

00:19:43.580 I get that. I get that. But as of yesterday, and today, there's roughly 376 people

00:19:52.700 in the hospital in 8500 beds. That's like 4% or 4.3% of the beds. Does that sound like the

00:20:01.980 hospital system is overwhelmed? Of course not. And then if we look at the ICU, that's a little

00:20:06.860 bit different. There's 90 people in the ICU, but there's 272 ICU beds. And the premier said that we

00:20:13.420 could ramp up to 1,081 beds. Well, he certainly could have done that without shutting down society,

00:20:22.060 as he's done again. Now, one of the things, when you talk about leadership,

00:20:29.660 and you recognize that there is a concern, and let's just give him the benefit of the doubt for a

00:20:36.140 moment and say that it wasn't the hospital system that was at risk of being overwhelmed,

00:20:43.340 but the ICUs potentially had the opportunity of being overwhelmed. Let's just use that argument

00:20:49.420 for a moment and think about it. If he was concerned about that in the spring, then if he was forward

00:20:57.580 thinking enough, he would have realized two things. Number one, if there was a second wave,

00:21:03.820 and that had been predicted, why then did he not plan to actually build, construct another couple

00:21:15.260 of hundred ICU beds in the province, particularly in the major cities, Calgary, Edmonton, you know,

00:21:21.980 Grand Prairie, Lethbridge, Red Deer, etc. Some of the medicine had some of the major areas.

00:21:27.340 Why did he not do that? That would have served not just to accommodate additional ICU requirements,

00:21:34.380 but it would have also served to do something brilliant, which no government in this province

00:21:41.020 has ever done before. He could have had a major win, and that would have been to reduce or almost

00:21:48.860 eliminate the waiting lists for patients who require ICU care after surgery, or they come in with

00:21:58.700 with some other type of illness. We could have been the first jurisdiction in Canada

00:22:03.580 to not have this ongoing failure of our public health care system that is reflected by these long

00:22:11.980 waiting lists. The waiting lists are worse now. People are dying on these waiting lists.

00:22:16.940 So that would have been something that, you know, I mean, and I'm not advocating being the premier,

00:22:23.980 but if I was the premier, I would have said to myself, gee, we have a neat opportunity here. Let's

00:22:29.340 spend a few hundred million dollars, and build these 200 more ICU beds. But he didn't do that. So,

00:22:38.060 so here we are, here we are now. And, um, he still has it within his, his capacity

00:22:45.900 capacity to say, look, here we are. I've imposed this lockdown. Um, we're, we're going to lift it

00:22:56.140 because the evidence doesn't support that the lockdowns would have made any difference. In other

00:23:00.220 words, what I'm saying is the lockdown has resulted in 376 bed people in the hospital, 19 in the ICU. If

00:23:09.340 there was no lockdown, it is, there's no evidence to say that there would be a higher number of

00:23:15.420 admissions to the ICU or, or to the hospital system. There is no evidence. This is why,

00:23:20.780 you know, this litigation that has been started, um, through the justice center for constitutional

00:23:26.860 freedom, they're very likely going to win those because there's no evidence to support the lockdowns.

00:23:33.020 And that's been, that's been proven again by an international study, uh, reported in the European

00:23:39.020 Journal of Clinical Investigation, uh, on an evaluation of 10 countries that, that it once

00:23:45.900 again proved that the lockdowns didn't make, didn't make any difference. So I think it's going to be,

00:23:50.300 it's going to be an interesting time, um, you know, you know, moving forward, uh, with respect to

00:23:56.940 handling all of this, but I'm going to give, I'm going to give the premier, um, this opportunity

00:24:03.020 to think about this. We know that the viruses mutate all the time.

00:24:10.780 And if there is a concern that a mutant virus is going to have greater transmissibility or greater

00:24:19.500 lethality, um, in the future, and that's going to cause the fourth lockdown, he has an opportunity

00:24:27.420 right now. He has an opportunity right now to ramp up and build, construct a whole bunch of, uh, new

00:24:35.740 intensive care unit beds. And I think that is something that he should do because if you don't

00:24:42.140 have, uh, a thriving economy, you can't control these kinds of things very well. And we don't have a

00:24:49.980 thriving economy right now, but this is probably the single most important thing that he could do

00:24:56.300 would be to build two or 300 more ICU beds right now, double the capacity so that we never have

00:25:02.220 to shut down again. Now, let me just say a word about the, the mutant viruses, because I think this

00:25:08.540 is quite important to understand as well. Um, there is no evidence, hard evidence yet that the

00:25:15.420 transmission, transmissibility is greater or the lethality is greater of these mutants. It's, it,

00:25:21.340 it's not, there's suggestions that it could be less or it could be more, but let's

00:25:26.140 say the transmissibility is greater. Even if the transmissibility is greater,

00:25:32.380 this is the way herd immunity occurs, um, with all viruses. Um, and, and so, um, increased

00:25:41.900 transmissibility just speeds up, uh, herd immunity doesn't increase, uh, deaths or anything like that.

00:25:49.340 It just increases transmissibility, um, or increases the, uh, rapidity with which, uh,

00:25:56.460 with which herd immunity occurs. Now let's look at lethality. So let's say, uh, lethality was increased

00:26:04.220 double what it is right now. Um, and right now, uh, the, when, when, if we take all comers and we're

00:26:14.540 looking at a 99.7% survival rate, that means, um, basically a 0.03% mortality risk, um, of COVID-19.

00:26:26.860 Well, so let's say the mutant is quite, is, is twice as, um, lethal. Well, that would increase it

00:26:32.700 from 0.03 to 0.06%, meaning that you have a 99, uh, instead of a 99.77%, uh, maybe I haven't got the

00:26:40.540 numbers right there. Yeah. It's 0.13. So it'd be up to 0.26. So you would still have, um, a 99 point,

00:26:47.580 um, 99.2% probability, fundamentally a 90, greater than a 99% probability of surviving anyhow.

00:26:56.300 And the other thing that's happening that's really exciting as well is that, um, there are,

00:27:03.100 there are newer treatments that are being developed. Um, as you may or may not know, um,

00:27:10.460 the NIH has approved and the CDC has approved, I guess it's the FDA come to think of it,

00:27:15.100 has approved the use of, uh, remdesivir as a treatment. It hasn't been brilliantly effective

00:27:21.980 to treat COVID-19. Um, but one of the things that's really interesting is that, um, vitamin D is quite

00:27:30.300 effective and for the, for the public out there who don't know why vitamin D is effective is because,

00:27:36.860 um, it stimulates your immune system and it's important. It's a very important component

00:27:44.220 to ramping up the effectiveness of your immune system. And people in Northern latitudes, uh,

00:27:50.940 tend to not get as much vitamin D, uh, particularly in the winter. And this is why the elderly are most

00:27:58.540 at risk is because their immune systems are compromised. So taking vitamin D it's now

00:28:05.020 recommended is actually recommended, um, by many governments, uh, now, and you know,

00:28:11.900 a thousand international units per day is what's recommended. If you want to take two,

00:28:16.780 do that. Don't take too much because it can increase, um, the formation, uh, it, it, it helps

00:28:23.980 to absorb calcium so it can cause kidney stones if you take too much. So, but a thousand to two

00:28:29.020 thousand a day is, is, is, is, is very effective. And then one of the things I also found that was

00:28:34.300 very interesting is that, um, when you look at the way the pharmaceutical companies operate, um,

00:28:41.180 um, they operate to make a profit. And so, um, hence the, the pharmaceutical industrial complex,

00:28:51.100 um, has developed these vaccines and, uh, the government narrative is you gotta have,

00:28:58.380 you have to have a vaccine. Um, and well, that's well and good. Um, what the pharmaceutical companies

00:29:06.700 won't do is they won't fund the prospective randomized trials to use other agents that are off patent

00:29:16.220 because an agent that's off patent, there's little money to be made. So that's why it's been so difficult

00:29:22.140 with respect to studying hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin. Um, because the, you need, you need

00:29:31.100 somebody like the NIH to come up with the funds, uh, to, to pay for those, for, to pay for those studies.

00:29:39.820 Now there's one other thing, of course, is new technology. And, um, I was kind of excited to see

00:29:46.700 it's completed its phase two trials, but there's a drug called aplodin. That's the trade name. The

00:29:52.620 generic name is pletidespin and it's used to treat multiple myeloma. And, um, it's been found to be

00:30:00.860 30 times more effective than remdesivir. So is that a cure? I don't know if it's a cure or it's not a

00:30:07.820 cure. Um, the phase three trials are randomized prospective trials. It's, um, it's, um, it's owned,

00:30:16.460 the patent is owned by a company in Spain and we'll see what the results of those studies show. But we are

00:30:25.900 in a time period where, as you know, knowledge, um, if you take a graph like this, um, and this is

00:30:35.340 time and this is knowledge, uh, it's exponential. So this is why, you know, uh, it's taken previously

00:30:43.580 four or five, eight years to develop a vaccine. Now we have vaccines developed in less than a year.

00:30:50.060 So in some of these vaccines, you know, may have some problems, but I think overall are going to

00:30:55.580 at the end of the day, after we see another two or three years, I think overall, they're probably

00:30:59.660 going to be reasonably safe. Um, and we will understand better in the next few years if,

00:31:06.860 if certain people have genetic predispositions, what other underlying conditions may put them in a,

00:31:12.620 in a higher risk to develop a complication from these back from some of these vaccines as well.

00:31:17.660 So knowledge is, is, is growing, and I'm just delighted that I'm, my brain still works, uh,

00:31:24.380 sufficiently that I can evaluate this, be excited about it, and I'm happy to share it with anybody

00:31:32.780 who feels like, uh, chatting with me about it. So that's, that's pretty much, um, what I have to say

00:31:39.740 about COVID-19, but I could talk about a whole bunch of other things if you want as well.

00:31:44.300 Well, but, uh, doctor, for example, is Alberta independence the right thing?

00:31:51.340 I could get into that one too. Anyhow.

00:31:53.820 You know, Dr. Modri, this is probably the easiest interview that I've ever done because I asked you

00:31:58.620 one question and you answered the 10 that I had on my list of things to ask you. Um, and it's wonderful.

00:32:06.060 Thank you so much. Um, I wanted to ask you now, you and I met yesterday. So Monday at the Alberta

00:32:13.500 legislature for the first time, I've been paying attention to you for quite some time. And I think

00:32:18.300 maybe the feeling was a little bit mutual.

00:32:22.060 I was wondering how I could meet you.

00:32:25.980 No, after what happened at the legislature, I think it was great. There was, you know,

00:32:31.740 I would guess probably 2000 people there. Um, but then the premier decided that he needed to

00:32:39.180 denounce everybody there. Um, basically called everybody there a bunch of unhinged conspiracy

00:32:45.900 theorists. And that wasn't my experience. I saw people who are not anti-vaccine, but rather

00:32:54.060 anti-coercion, uh, with regard to taking vaccines and anti-tying the reopening of the economy to

00:33:02.940 taking experimental vaccines. Um, and I found it interesting that premier Kenny was outraged.

00:33:11.820 And I guess the government officially apologized because the crowd at one point chanted about

00:33:17.900 Dr. Dina Hinshaw lock her up. Now I don't think they really need locker up. I feel like these are a

00:33:22.780 bunch of disgruntled people who feel their civil liberties are being trumped on. A lot of them

00:33:28.460 are unemployed because of the lockdown. And I think they're letting off steam, but I thought it was

00:33:33.100 pretty interesting how, um, the pro let's lock up a pastor for saying religious services side of the

00:33:41.260 argument is outraged that a bunch of people were blowing off steam, chanting locker up, excuse me,

00:33:47.740 about an unelected, very well-paid public health bureaucrat.

00:33:53.820 Well, you know, I, um, I respect, um, the, the premier, uh, I respect, uh, Dina Hinshaw. Um,

00:34:03.660 they have their views. I think it would be, uh, as you know, um, I and Dr. Ari Jaffe, who's an infectious

00:34:12.540 specialist, uh, pediatrician and infectious disease specialist at the university hospital, um, and

00:34:18.540 Colonel Redmond, who had drafted, um, policy with respect to how pandemic should be, uh, handled, um,

00:34:28.940 which has been embraced by, you know, other countries around the world. Uh, and of course,

00:34:34.380 Dr. Hutkinson as well. I thought that it would have had, would have been of benefit, uh, to, uh, caucus

00:34:43.100 if, um, if the four of us, uh, could have met, uh, with Dr. Hinshaw and Mr. Shandro in any other

00:34:52.780 physicians that, um, Dr. Hinshaw would have liked to have brought to a discussion and had a healthy

00:35:00.860 debate, not an hour, but spend an entire morning or maybe even spend an entire day with caucus and,

00:35:08.140 and, and, and let's, and let's go over things. Um, and I think at the end of that, uh, you know,

00:35:16.460 the vitriol, um, that has been expressed by maybe both sides of the equation, uh, would not have

00:35:23.900 occurred. I, I, I don't know. I just, but as you know, um, when, when people actually do communicate,

00:35:31.580 uh, you can, you can, and they're, and they're open-minded to hear a different, uh, perspective,

00:35:37.180 uh, you, you can oftentimes come to a meeting of the minds. Our goal was not to disparage, uh, the

00:35:44.620 government and, and what they were doing. Our goal was to, um, have a discussion to try and compel a

00:35:52.380 different, um, um, um, path forward. And it's like I said, you know, if, uh, if it were the case that,

00:36:01.020 um, that Dr. Hinshaw and the premier and minister Chandra were going to dig their feet in with respect

00:36:09.500 to a lockdown, they could have at least, um, registered their view about ramping up, um, the,

00:36:19.580 the number of ICU beds actually do something that would not only be good in the short term,

00:36:26.060 but in the long term. And that would have prevented any further lockdowns from occurring in the future.

00:36:31.740 So when, when premier Kenny rages about, uh, conspiracy theories, nobody said anything that

00:36:39.580 was a conspiracy of a conspiracy yesterday. Um, certainly the press conferences that Roger and I

00:36:47.900 gave, there was nothing conspiratorial about anything that we, that we said, um, at all.

00:36:54.220 I think the premier is frustrated and his comment, um, was political. Uh, I don't think it was directed,

00:37:02.540 um, with malicious intent at any of the speakers. Um, I tend to believe that because I think he's,

00:37:09.580 uh, he's a genuine person and he has his, and he has his views that about these lockdowns, um, which

00:37:18.220 I disagree with for the reasons that, that, um, that I stated, but here's where we could come to a

00:37:24.540 meeting of the minds. And that's on what I said earlier, a couple of times now, and that is build

00:37:31.340 out two or 300 more ICU beds. That gives him another off ramp to get away from these lockdowns.

00:37:39.420 It's a, it's a simple solution. Yeah. It doesn't cost a few hundred million dollars. And yeah,

00:37:43.340 you got to educate the nursing staff, but that's leadership and that's leadership that doesn't

00:37:50.940 exist in many centers around the world right now. So he could prove himself as a real leader if he

00:37:55.820 would do something like that. So, as you can see, my focus is not to disparage the premier or Dina

00:38:02.700 Hinshaw, but I do disparage the rationale for the lockdowns, particularly when they're not thinking,

00:38:10.220 uh, ahead. So if you think we've been locked down for the third time and it's not going to happen

00:38:15.820 again, if the premier doesn't do something, as I've suggested, we're going to be facing another

00:38:22.060 lockdown because as soon as he gets to 60 or 70 beds in the ICU that are purportedly COVID-19,

00:38:30.460 then we're going to be locked down again. But here's something that I want to mention as well.

00:38:34.940 I just want to make a point about PCR testing. The PCR testing looks at, um, the cycle thresholds

00:38:43.660 of the genetic material that is in a virus and it cycles it, it amplifies it to a point

00:38:50.860 where it can be identified. Here's the problem is that, um, coronaviruses, uh, about 79 to 80 percent

00:38:59.900 of them have common genetic material within them. So, so that's one thing, including the common cold.

00:39:07.660 So if you've got a fragment of a virus and you amplify it, you're never really 100

00:39:13.500 percent sure. Uh, if you're at cycle thresholds over 33, as Dr. Fauci says, that are unreliable,

00:39:21.580 that you're really dealing with, with the COVID-19 virus, um, the SARS-CoV-2 virus. So, so what does

00:39:30.940 that mean? Why that is so important to understand is that many of these people who are admitted to

00:39:38.460 hospital have underlying diseases. In fact, um, 80 to 90 percent of them have underlying diseases.

00:39:45.340 I think it's 90 percent actually. And what that means is that if they are admitted to hospital,

00:39:52.940 um, and is it their underlying disease that has got them into trouble? Uh, or is it truly, um,

00:40:01.100 a COVID-19 illness? And this is, this is again the problem because when patients die,

00:40:08.460 and they have a, uh, PCR cycle threshold, uh, that is, uh, greater than 33 or 35 or 40, even,

00:40:20.060 um, then did they really die of COVID-19? And the evidence would suggest, in fact, they didn't,

00:40:26.860 they died of their underlying disease. And part of the problem that we're facing when we look at the data

00:40:33.260 is that what Alberta Health Services does not do is they do not, uh, determine the cycle threshold.

00:40:41.180 They don't, they do not record the cycle threshold with every patient who is diagnosed with COVID-19

00:40:48.380 at the, uh, and, and at the time of death. So we don't, we, we, we don't have that evidence.

00:40:52.940 And, and that would be extremely helpful. Uh, but here we are. And, um, many of these deaths

00:41:01.820 and admissions, in fact, cannot be COVID-19, uh, um, that it's coincidental and it's, it's not cause and

00:41:11.580 effect. So I think that's an important, uh, a point, an important point to make. And if we were having

00:41:18.460 this discussion with Dr. Hinshaw, I'm quite certain that we could, we could from that point forward,

00:41:26.940 say, uh, any diagnosis of COVID-19 going forward, we will record the cycle threshold and we will be

00:41:35.820 absolutely sure. And if you want to, and, and, and, and as Dr. Hodkinson is so eloquently stated and

00:41:42.620 many others, it doesn't help, uh, to, to, um, to, to, to, to do a COVID-19 test on people who are

00:41:53.900 asymptomatic. It's a waste of time. It's a waste of money. Um, and they should really just be focusing

00:41:59.260 on people who come into hospital with, um, respiratory symptoms in particular. And, and the,

00:42:07.660 the, there's a more accurate test than the PCR test is the Sanger test. Uh, it's a

00:42:12.460 little more expensive. It takes a little longer to do, but if you're only testing the people who

00:42:16.460 come into hospital overall, it becomes less costly, uh, but far more accurate. So again,

00:42:22.460 that's another thing, uh, that, that could have been discussed if we had had an opportunity to

00:42:27.580 have this discussion, uh, together with caucus because caucuses does compel the premier. And I,

00:42:33.740 I imagine the premier is pretty upset about, uh, 17 caucus members who are, who are objecting to this,

00:42:42.620 to this lockdown. And, um, yeah, well, he brought it on himself.

00:42:49.340 He definitely did. Dr. Modry, we're approaching 40 minutes and I only asked you for 20. So I want

00:42:55.500 to thank you for being so generous with your time. I want to have you back on the show very soon because

00:43:00.780 I, I want to ask you about, um, what happened to the flu, but I'm also kind of curious to hear what

00:43:07.660 you have to say about Western separation. So I want to thank you for your time and hopefully,

00:43:12.220 uh, you'll agree to come back on the show very soon. One comment. Sure. One comment. Um,

00:43:19.260 if you really want to know the, um, rationale for independence, the merits of independence,

00:43:28.300 how it can come about and how to assuage the concerns of those who are, would be concerned

00:43:35.500 about independence, I will be glad to tell you. Thank you so much. I, I just, I want to save it

00:43:41.820 for another show because this is a full packed show. So we'll have you on again very, very soon.

00:43:45.820 Thank you, Dr. Modry. Thank you.

00:43:54.940 Okay. So what do you guys think? Does Dr. Dennis Modry sound like a conspiracy theorist and

00:44:01.420 unhinged conspiracy theorist, or is he an educated guy with a different opinion than the government?

00:44:07.420 makes me wonder why is the government so unwilling to listen to experienced medical doctors who think

00:44:14.860 there was a different way and who also maintain that, that different way, the off ramp from this

00:44:20.620 pandemic is still available for the government to take. It's very strange, isn't it? Well,

00:44:27.660 everybody, that's the show for tonight. Thank you so much for tuning in. I'll see everybody next week.

00:44:32.300 And I really could actually be physically anywhere, but I'll still be making sure that I'm creating the

00:44:37.100 content. Our subscribers are paying for wherever I may be at. And remember friends, don't let the

00:44:44.620 government tell you that you've had too much to think.

00:45:07.100 good person.

00:45:09.100 Yeah.

Rebel News Podcast - April 15, 2021

Alberta surgeon to Jason Kenney： Advice on a balanced approach to COVID-19

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