Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ Freedom under fire： five days, five fights in court for Rebel News

00:00:00.000 Hello, my friends. Today's show is about various court battles that Rebel News is either crowdfunding

00:00:04.620 or actually defending ourselves. I'd love it if you got the video version of today's podcast.

00:00:11.300 Just go to rebelnewsplus.com and click subscribe. It's eight bucks a month. But that not only gives

00:00:16.540 you the video version of the podcast, it helps pay our bills. Because as you know, we will never

00:00:21.320 take a dime from Justin Trudeau. All right, here's today's podcast.

00:00:30.000 Tonight, five days in the week, five different court battles for Rebel News. It's September

00:00:44.220 19th, and this is the Ezra LeVant Show.

00:00:46.680 You fighting for freedom! Shame on you, you censorious bug!

00:01:00.000 Hello, my friends. As you can see, I'm actually in an airport. I'm running around so much.

00:01:06.420 Yesterday, I was down in Lethbridge, Alberta, covering the sentencing hearing of Arthur Pawlowski.

00:01:12.760 He's a very important newsmaker, both in terms of freedom of speech and freedom of religion.

00:01:18.280 We're also crowdfunding his legal defense, although his sentencing yesterday, as you know,

00:01:24.080 was for time served, so he doesn't go back to jail. He doesn't have any more fines or any more

00:01:28.900 penalties. He still has the conviction, the criminal conviction. And we can't let that stand.

00:01:35.100 We cannot let it be that giving a peaceful sermon is considered a crime, inciting mischief. And I just

00:01:42.820 find it astonishing that that happened. We must appeal it. And I think we've got a good chance

00:01:47.340 on appeal, by the way. So that was what we did yesterday. Today, I was in court myself on behalf

00:01:54.520 of Rebel News. As I mentioned to you the other day, the Calgary police sent me an email demanding

00:02:00.140 that I hand over all sorts of footage that they didn't actually particularize. And they said,

00:02:04.920 if I didn't do so within 30 days, I could be imprisoned at the gall of them. And by the way,

00:02:10.560 today's day 49 in that 30-day time limit. I'll show you a lot more about that subject.

00:02:15.800 Tomorrow, the trial of Derek Reimer, the pastor in Calgary who protested against the drag queen

00:02:24.020 story hour, a peaceful protest. He's on trial for breaking some bubble zone law. Calgary now has a

00:02:30.140 rule. You can't protest within like 100 meters of a drag queen story hour. Is it that some protected 0.86

00:02:36.840 space like a military top secret location or something? Again, we are crowdfunding his legal

00:02:42.060 defense on Thursday. I'm on trial again. I tell you, it's not my week. The Libranos book that I

00:02:48.700 published four years ago is still on trial. Before the court in Toronto, the Trudeau government says it

00:02:56.940 was an illegal book, that it wasn't a real book. But because it criticized Justin Trudeau, it should

00:03:02.040 be treated as a campaign expenditure or something. And I should have to register with the government

00:03:08.080 before publishing a book. By the way, there were 24 books written that same election season about

00:03:13.200 Justin Trudeau. Mine just happened to be the only critical one. And surprise, mine was the only one

00:03:17.840 that was charged, investigated, prosecuted by Elections Canada, those crooks. So we're battling

00:03:23.840 it out in court on Thursday. On Friday, I'm losing track of all the trials. Well, of course,

00:03:29.960 there's Tamara Leach's trial, which is going all week. It's been going on for several weeks. I think

00:03:34.700 I'm missing a trial in there somewhere. There's so many of them going on. And it falls to Rebel News

00:03:40.900 and our friends at the Democracy Fund to lift the load. And it wasn't always this way. It used to be

00:03:47.200 that other people cared about civil liberties. There are a few who do. I take my hat off to our friends

00:03:52.100 at the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms. And I'm pretty much done my list. I mean, there used

00:03:57.960 to be a lot of Canadians who cared about the free press, but not so much now that they've been

00:04:02.440 colonized by Justin Trudeau's media bailout. When I was young, I remember reading legal cases

00:04:08.020 about freedom of speech. And there was often a lawyer in court representing what they called

00:04:12.320 a consortium of media companies. So CTV and CBC and Global and the newspapers and, and, and would all get

00:04:20.340 together, chip in maybe a thousand bucks each. And they would hire a lawyer to represent all of them

00:04:24.660 to go to court to fight for free speech. It made a lot of sense. It spread the burden out for all the

00:04:29.980 companies. And it really packed a punch. When someone would show up in court and say,

00:04:33.860 Your Honour, I represent 100 different newspapers and TV stations. And we're here to talk about

00:04:39.180 freedom of the press. It actually made a dent. Well, the big companies don't do that anymore.

00:04:43.280 I think partly because they only care about one reader now, Justin Trudeau, not about anything as

00:04:49.280 abstract as freedom. And the so-called civil liberties groups, where are they? I mean,

00:04:54.760 listen, they took a long snooze, like, you know, what, who's not Rumpelstilson. I just,

00:05:01.200 I just forgot the name of the guy who went to sleep for 80 years. What's that fable?

00:05:05.220 That's what happened to our civil liberties groups. They just went to Rip Van Winkle. That's

00:05:08.960 who I'm thinking about. Our Rip Van Winkle civil liberties groups just decided, you know,

00:05:14.720 everything's fine. They'll just go on holidays. Even while the pandemic and the lockdowns and the

00:05:19.500 vaccine mandates came about, they're certainly not going to get involved over something like freedom of

00:05:23.740 speech. So today's show, I told you a few things that are coming later this week, and I'm, believe me,

00:05:29.040 I got a lot more to say about my trial on the Libranos. But today's show, I'm going to show you

00:05:33.800 a few things. I'm going to show you my discussion with Sarah Miller coming out of Arthur Pavlovsky's

00:05:40.520 hearing. And that's a hearty interview. We talk about the importance of the case. We talk about how

00:05:45.380 much it's going to cost. And then I talked to Sarah. I literally went with her from her office

00:05:50.140 to the court of King's Bench in Calgary, where I was worried that the police were going to fight us.

00:05:55.280 But Sarah tells me that at the last moment, the police said, all right, we won't fight you.

00:05:59.800 We agree that we did it wrong. And so the hearing in court was actually very brief. I'll show you

00:06:04.760 some videos about that. But it's only buying us a little bit of respite. There is no doubt in my

00:06:09.480 mind that the police will be coming for us again. And they will demand my footage, our footage. And if we

00:06:14.720 don't give it, they will threaten to imprison me. And I do not want to go to jail. But there are some

00:06:19.560 principles, I think, that especially someone like me who talks a good game, I think if push comes to

00:06:24.560 shove, I think it behooves me to show that I mean all this. And I don't want to go to jail. But there

00:06:29.220 are some things that I would go to jail for. And our freedom of the press and the fact that I do not

00:06:34.620 believe a cop should simply be able to grab our footage, I think that is one of those things.

00:06:39.520 So let me say goodbye now and hand you over to me earlier today, when I interviewed Sarah Miller

00:06:46.020 three occasions. Once finishing up what we talked about with Arthur Pawlowski, a second time before

00:06:53.820 we went into court against the Calgary police, and a third time when we came out of that court hearing.

00:06:59.780 So it's a day full of court cases in a week full of court cases. And I feel self-conscious that I'm

00:07:06.580 always asking for help with this. But I really think it has fallen to rebel news to do most of

00:07:12.160 the civil liberties law in Canada. I mean, I love the guys at the JCCF, and they're fighting like

00:07:17.400 hell on a bunch of files. But all the free speech stuff, all the media stuff, the freedom of the

00:07:22.320 press stuff, they do some of that. But so many of those burdens fall to us. And I think we have to

00:07:26.780 live up to the occasion. I hope you agree. All right, here's today's show.

00:07:36.580 Well, what a day yesterday down there in Lethbridge. There was a bit of a jubilation

00:07:45.140 when Arthur Pawlowski stepped out of the court. Time served. He will not have to pay a dollar's fine.

00:07:50.480 He will not have to go back to jail. Sarah Miller, you led the charge to beat the sentencing.

00:07:56.520 Give us your thoughts as a lawyer of how things went down yesterday.

00:07:59.900 Yeah, so of course it's great that Arthur is not going back to prison.

00:08:03.260 But it is very disheartening to know that he spent 50 days, over 50 days, 52 days in custody

00:08:10.860 for a 20 minute speech. And so this is this is definitely a message from the criminal justice

00:08:17.200 system. If you're going to speak at protests, your speech will or could at least attract criminal and

00:08:24.900 penal consequences. And so although yesterday was a happy moment for Arthur because he wasn't returning

00:08:30.120 back to jail, he wasn't going to serve additional time, which is what the Crown was seeking,

00:08:34.420 up to 12 months. And then at court, you heard up to 10 months, which would mean he would have returned

00:08:41.200 to custody. That's positive that he didn't. But it's a significant sentence, 60 days. If he had not been

00:08:49.420 detained, if his bail had not been refused at first instance, he would have then been facing 60 days in jail.

00:08:57.360 He would have been there until November. That's crazy. You know, the judge referred to a number

00:09:02.100 of cases for a lot of environmental cases, anti-logging cases, climate cases. And in most of

00:09:09.580 those, and these were persistent day after day roadblocks, blocking a bridge. And there was no

00:09:16.260 custodial sentence. I remember there was a case of some old growth forest bridge blocker who got a

00:09:21.080 suspended sentence. So if you're bad again, you'll go to jail maybe in the future. But it felt like a

00:09:28.520 double standard for justice. Most of the cases that the judge seemed to cite, now you correct me if I'm

00:09:33.780 wrong here, climate protesters, logging protesters got off with a slap in the wrist. He would have done,

00:09:41.400 like you say, two months prison had he not already done two months prison.

00:09:45.980 Yeah. So like, we don't know what would have happened with the sentence had our turn not had

00:09:51.940 such a considerable amount of pretrial custody time. So there's a possibility that he may also

00:09:56.940 have been conditionally sentenced, which as you say, doesn't mean you're returning to jail,

00:10:01.220 but means you're going to serve it in the community under, you know, very strict conditions like house

00:10:05.540 arrest. So there's a possibility that that would have been the outcome if we didn't have so much

00:10:11.540 pretrial custody time. But yeah, you're exactly right. Like people who had been charged multiple

00:10:16.600 times with actual mischief, not inciting mischief, people who had injunction orders issued against

00:10:23.380 them, people who had ignored police, people who had been engaged in the civil disobedience for over a

00:10:32.320 year, you know, doing the same activities for over a year, are getting essentially, you know,

00:10:38.360 what we heard was 75 days, right, of conditional sentence. Or we have one where, you know, there's

00:10:45.280 a, uh, uh, tower, the Calgary Tower is climbed, a bunch of Greenpeace organized, uh, the court had

00:10:53.240 said to military precision, precision to earn fundraising. Yeah. I mean, the Greenpeace commits

00:10:57.660 these crimes to make money, make no doubt about it. Yes, exactly. And has crowdfunding available,

00:11:02.820 just the same as Archer would, to pay a fine. And they were fined $2,000 each.

00:11:06.840 What a laugh. You know what? It's not just that Arthur was convicted of, for saying things like

00:11:13.960 hold the line and stand for freedom. Really, any pundit, any journalist, any commentator,

00:11:23.660 anyone with a Facebook page who would have said the same thing, if those would have been read or

00:11:28.560 heard by a protester, they would be on the hook the same way. Because, because the judge and the

00:11:33.060 prosecutors never claimed that Arthur blocked a road, they never claimed he did anything,

00:11:39.280 uh, he didn't even go on the road, as far as we know. He just incited them to keep going. And the,

00:11:44.820 and the bulk of the proof was he talked about the solidarity protests in Poland 45 years ago,

00:11:51.100 or whatever. This can, it's the sentencing, as you pointed out, is outrageous. But the conviction is

00:11:59.240 even more terrifying. If giving a sermon that gives encouragement is a crime, then frankly,

00:12:06.180 I'm in deep trouble because I encourage civil disobedience all the time. And, and I think half

00:12:11.280 the pundits in this country, both on the left and the right, do. I think the conviction itself

00:12:15.900 is dangerous. Now, you tell me, are you appealing the conviction itself?

00:12:21.360 Yeah. So, uh, Archer has given us instructions to appeal the conviction itself. And for that exact

00:12:26.920 reason, right? Like, there, we are now in a world where we, we speak, we can have it live streamed,

00:12:33.420 we can be far from, far removed from being in coots and say similar things that Archer said,

00:12:40.160 right? Similar words of encouragement or support. And what distinguishes what Archer said compared

00:12:46.500 to what anybody else is saying online? And how, how are we going to police speech in that manner?

00:12:52.560 Um, and this is really the first time that we're aware of that somebody has been convicted of

00:12:58.180 simply speaking, not, not participating. And not only did they not allege or suggest that he

00:13:04.940 participated, they admitted in the agreed statement of facts, it's a fact that Archer did not participate

00:13:11.400 or block the road. It is simply his speech that we are talking about, the words that he said while

00:13:16.280 he was in coots. You know, I've covered a lot of trials around the world. And I was there for the

00:13:21.680 trial. What was so interesting to me is there were really no witnesses. It was just the YouTube video

00:13:27.280 that Archer himself posted. That's it. We, we had a whole trial going through word for word of his

00:13:32.420 sermon. That's insane. By the way, Martin Luther King would have been imprisoned for his sermons

00:13:36.820 alone if that were the standard. I mean, Martin Luther King mustered the power of the English 0.82

00:13:41.380 language and, and the, the, the conviction and the principle that he, of, of the Bible. And he appealed

00:13:49.760 to people through their hearts and their minds under the standard set for Pastor Arthur, Martin Luther

00:13:56.460 King would have been jailed for his sermons alone. He was jailed for other things, but he would have

00:14:01.340 been jailed for his sermons alone. Yeah, absolutely. That, and that's the, that's the concerning aspect

00:14:07.540 of this particular decision is that what you say can result in criminal charges. So you don't have

00:14:15.360 to participate. You don't have to be a leader. You don't have to be an organizer. You don't even have

00:14:19.540 to really explain how somebody should continue. And by the way, there, and there's no need for proof

00:14:25.940 that you actually caused anything to happen. There's no proof that anyone listened to, um,

00:14:31.460 Pastor Arthur and said, Oh, I'm going to go down to Cooch now, or, Oh, I'm going to stay here.

00:14:35.940 There's no proof at all. In fact, we don't even know for a fact that the people who listened to

00:14:39.740 that sermon were, were blockaders themselves. He gave a sermon at a saloon in town. I think there

00:14:44.520 probably were some truckers there, but none of that was proven. I think this is a very dangerous

00:14:48.700 precedent. And of course it's not against Stephen Gilboa, the environment minister who shimmied

00:14:55.960 down the CN tower. He, he got off with a slap on the wrist too. Of course it's not. And I think a lot

00:15:02.100 of people who were there yesterday in Lethbridge feel in their bones that the justice system is not

00:15:07.380 even handed. And this ruling against a right wing Christian pastor who was against vaccine mandates,

00:15:14.320 this ruling in the eyes of many conservatives and freedom oriented people will be proof that the

00:15:20.020 justice system is unfair. I, and you know what, given the comparison, I mean, they just talked a lot

00:15:25.260 about parity with other cases. There was no parody with other cases people. And let me say my point

00:15:32.420 of view, Sarah, is I'm trying to keep conservatives in the democratic tent. I'm trying to prove to

00:15:38.400 conservatives or freedom loving people, don't give up on the system. We can work within the system. We can

00:15:42.600 work within the courts. We can work within independent journalism. We can work like I'm trying to tell

00:15:46.740 people don't give up on the system. We can make it work. Yesterday's disproportionate sentence makes

00:15:54.880 it bloody hard for me to look those truckers in the eye and say, no, no, the system's apps actually

00:16:00.660 fair. You'll be treated as gently as a green feature because that's not the case.

00:16:05.980 Yeah. I mean, there's a, there's a big range of sentencing and sentencing is certainly an art and not a

00:16:11.840 science. So, and there's going to be implications of having so much pretrial custody time, right? Being

00:16:18.320 detained at first instance, having that much pretrial custody time gives the court a lot of latitude to

00:16:23.660 say 60 days, seven days, which is what we were saying. It's really the same outcome as Archer's walking

00:16:29.180 onto the courtroom at the end of the day, right? So I, I believe still very strongly that the, the courts are

00:16:35.580 doing their work that, you know, sometimes we don't agree with decisions. Sometimes we have to go to

00:16:41.540 court of appeal, right? So, I mean, why have a court of appeal if they're never going to get it wrong at

00:16:47.080 the lower court? And that's, you know, I, I told a lot of people yesterday in the courtroom, outside the

00:16:52.180 courtroom, I said, who said, we got to get the judge, we got to impeach the judge. I said, no, judges are

00:16:57.300 allowed to get it wrong. And that, that doesn't prove that they're evil if they get it wrong because we

00:17:02.320 have a court of appeal to fix it. And we have a Supreme court of Canada fix that. So just because

00:17:06.260 a judge caused me wrong, doesn't mean he's corrupt us. I mean, he's evil. It just means he got it

00:17:10.800 wrong. That's why we're counting on the court of appeal. And last time you represented Arthur for

00:17:16.740 keeping his, his church open, the trial judge made an appalling. You went to the court of appeal,

00:17:23.000 got a three to zero ruling by the court of appeal. That was beautiful and actually legally binding.

00:17:30.900 Like it's like when the court of appeal makes a ruling, it's binding. It sets a precedent for

00:17:35.600 the whole province in a way that had he just won a trial, it wouldn't do. So I actually think you've

00:17:40.460 got a real opportunity to take this loss, this conviction, go to the court of appeal and God

00:17:46.040 willing overturn it and set a precedent for freedom. It's a painful, lengthy process, but I'm actually

00:17:52.880 trying to find the silver lining here. If you can win this thing at court of appeal, that is,

00:17:58.580 that is actually a huge win for freedom for everybody, including for Greenpeace. I hate to

00:18:04.440 say it. Yes, absolutely. For everyone who wants to protest and engage in democratic processes like

00:18:10.020 this case is important. Whether you agree with Arthur's position or not, whether or not you think

00:18:14.420 he should have been there, you thought it was stupid that he was there or what have you, this decision 0.94

00:18:18.460 impacts everybody from every political stripe. And so if we go to the court of appeal and have a 0.98

00:18:24.520 decision, it's going to be precedential, not only in Alberta, but it's going to be influential across the

00:18:30.380 country because inciting mischief has never been dealt with by a court of appeal.

00:18:35.380 Really? I didn't know that.

00:18:36.520 Yeah. Like, there's, there's just not very much case law in, in the world of case law regarding

00:18:42.380 incitement, so... I had no idea. I'm going to ask you, I'm going to ask you a question that I have never

00:18:48.900 asked you before on camera, and I hope you'll answer it, um, because there's a point to the question.

00:18:54.880 Uh, let me quickly show you a beautiful thing that Arthur said yesterday. I was in the crowd filming,

00:19:00.420 and he said, hey, Ezra, come on up here. And then he made a special thank you to me,

00:19:05.000 but really what he meant is to rebel viewers for crowdfunding his legal. So I don't want to say

00:19:10.120 how much we've spent so far on him because it's a very big number. And, and I think we've gotten

00:19:15.320 value for money. We've, we've had a lot of great wins. Here's just a quick, uh, shot of Arthur

00:19:20.680 saying some nice things about how we've crowdfunded. Let's take a quick look. Ezra Levan in Rebel News.

00:19:26.760 If Ezra, Ezra is there, Ezra, Ezra, come.

00:19:29.080 Ezra Levan, you see, this is a man that I have differences with, very public, head on collision,

00:19:41.560 but that's how I like it. I'm a Polish immigrant. I believe that the heroes in the Bible were not

00:19:47.240 Jews were Polish immigrants. That's the truth. I can't prove it yet, but I'm working on it. And this

00:19:54.600 man stood with me and I'm telling you, I fought many battles alone and I lost my houses. I lost my

00:20:02.280 properties. They almost took my home away for closure. I couldn't pay taxes because I fought

00:20:08.520 lawyers, hundreds of thousands of dollars. And one man cannot do it. One family cannot do it.

00:20:13.640 And this man stepped in and says, I'll crowdfund for you. So it doesn't matter what differences we may

00:20:22.120 have today. He and his effort paid for our lawyers. And that's the truth. Ezra, I want to thank you for

00:20:31.160 that. I am not in prison because you were willing with crowdfunding, with good Canadians, with good

00:20:38.520 Albertans to fetch the bill. And I'll always remember that. You know, I really, uh, I'm grateful

00:20:45.960 to him for his gratitude through me to our donors. We do have that one last battle. We do. I mean,

00:20:53.400 you could walk away right now. Arthur's free. There's nothing else hanging over his head that I know

00:20:57.720 about related to the convoy or the pandemic. But we have this last mission to do. We have to get his

00:21:06.200 conviction overturned. We have to do it at the court of appeal level to set the binding precedent

00:21:11.240 in Alberta and the persuasive precedent in the other provinces and territories.

00:21:16.760 I actually think in some ways, this is the most important battle of all. It touches on freedom of

00:21:21.800 religion, freedom of speech. And it, if, if we let it stand, it's the criminalization of dissent. I

00:21:29.640 really believe that. So here's the question I haven't asked you on camera before, and I hope you'll answer

00:21:34.760 it. How much money do you and your team expected to cost to take things from now, prepare the appeal,

00:21:45.320 go to the appeal, argue the appeal, fight the appeal, and win the appeal? How many more dollars

00:21:51.400 do you need us to crowdfund? And they're just rough numbers because I want, I want people to hear it

00:21:56.120 straight from you because we got to do one last mission for Arthur.

00:21:59.240 So I, I would hope that this would be possible less than $100,000, but we're going to need to

00:22:09.560 counsel. We're going to need to do factums. We need to recreate the, the entire trial record

00:22:14.920 for the court of appeal. We need to attend the court of appeal, the court of appeal. You're not

00:22:19.080 messing around when you go to the court of appeal. You need to know the case law in and out across the

00:22:23.560 country and in other jurisdictions, which means we're doing research in the US and the UK. Um,

00:22:29.720 it could be up to a hundred thousand dollars. That's a lot of money.

00:22:35.880 There's no two ways about it. Through the Democracy Fund, we're able to issue charitable tax receipts

00:22:42.360 for these donations. So that lightens the burden a bit. That's a lot of money. But I do believe

00:22:48.520 for Arthur's own sake, we need to appeal because I don't like the fact that he's now a convicted

00:22:53.560 criminal. You know, there was some jubilation yesterday because woo, no more time in jail.

00:22:57.960 Yeah. Okay. But he's still branded a criminal. There's the stigma of that. It may even cause him

00:23:03.480 problems traveling to other countries for all I know. We have to get that stain off of him,

00:23:10.520 but much more important, we have to set the precedent for freedom. I feel the same way about Tamara

00:23:15.800 Leach's case in Ottawa right now that the Democracy Fund and Rebel News are also crowdfunding for.

00:23:20.200 The government is seeking to criminalize, in retrospect, the entire trucker convoy.

00:23:24.520 And they'll do so with a conviction, whereas an acquittal will vindicate the entire

00:23:28.520 protest. I think what hangs in the balance right now with Arthur is the difference between night and

00:23:34.520 day, dark and light. If we can overturn this trial conviction and get an appeal for freedom,

00:23:40.920 this will perhaps be the most useful thing we have ever done. And so thank you for that. I did

00:23:47.800 not know your answer before. I just asked it now. It's, it's a large number. You're a winner though.

00:23:53.960 You won in the court of appeal before three to zero. I have a saying, it's a terrible saying,

00:23:59.720 there's nothing more expensive than a cheap lawyer because you don't want to do this and lose. You want

00:24:05.160 to do this and win. I trust you. I've gotten to know you over three years now. You've been battling

00:24:09.960 for Arthur for three and a half years. Can you believe it? It's crazy. There you have it. Um,

00:24:16.680 that's a large number. I, um, I'll stop saying that. But, uh, I think we have to do it for the

00:24:24.600 reasons I said. And many hands make light work. And this is what I said to Arthur yesterday.

00:24:31.560 No poor person could do this. No regular person could do this and no rich person would do this

00:24:36.120 because they wouldn't be rich anymore. You know, if a millionaire, if Arthur was a million,

00:24:40.600 well, Arthur's an unusual case, a regular person being a millionaire would just say,

00:24:45.000 how do I get out of this mess? Just cut a plea deal. Let me get out of this. This is like a rich

00:24:50.840 person is rich for a reason because he's rational with his money. The only way to fight this is with

00:24:57.080 Arthur's natural stubbornness, with an excellent law firm and with crowdfunding. There's no other

00:25:04.680 normal way to win this. And I really believe this. So please go to savearthur.com. If you have come to

00:25:11.480 love and trust Sarah as much as I have over three and a half years ago, we were strangers. I'd never

00:25:15.800 met you before. And we've had some wins. Uh, I'm not going to say for a sixth time, but that's a lot.

00:25:22.440 That's a lot of money. That's a lot of money, Sarah. Lord, thunder and Jesus. But we've got to do it.

00:25:29.080 Last word to you. Yeah. Uh, I mean, this is more than what is happening to Arthur. This is going to be

00:25:36.280 precedential case law and we need to do it right and it needs to be argued right and we need to

00:25:41.000 have it presented to the Court of Appeal right to have it, uh, come out the way we want.

00:25:45.000 There is no one else that I would want in the Court of Appeal other than you and your team.

00:25:50.360 You know Arthur Inside Out. You've worked with him for three and a half years.

00:25:53.960 Uh, you know the facts of this case intimately. You know the law. I've seen your work. Uh, it's,

00:26:01.000 it's excellent. And the judges have said so. Every case I've seen you argue, the judges take time to

00:26:07.000 compliment your, uh, your representations. And I don't think they do that if they don't mean it.

00:26:13.720 So there you have it. We had a win yesterday. There was jubilation yesterday. But it is not

00:26:20.360 actually done. I think Arthur would walk away right now, frankly.

00:26:23.960 Oh, I, I don't think so. You know Arthur. He wouldn't walk away.

00:26:28.040 What I mean by that is he's, he would go back to his life.

00:26:30.280 Yes. Well, he's going to go back to his life, right? Like now it's, now it's a matter for the

00:26:35.400 courts to sort out what the appropriate application was.

00:26:38.360 I, I said that wrong. Arthur fights to the end. He's got that stubbornness in him,

00:26:41.880 which is why he's so unusual. You know, they say reasonable people conform to the world.

00:26:48.040 Unreasonable people make the world conform to them.

00:26:51.560 Therefore all progress depends on unreasonable people. And, and we need a stubborn man with a

00:26:59.080 stiff neck and all he needs is our help to lawyer this thing. So there you have it. This is a heavy

00:27:06.840 pitch, but, uh, we've got, we've got one more mission to do. All right. There you have it, Sarah.

00:27:12.920 Great to catch up with you. I was glad to be down there at the trial and I will be there at the court of

00:27:18.280 appeal. I need your help though, to crowdfund it. Go to savearthur.com. Thanks.

00:27:30.600 Just for those who are wondering, well, what's this all about? What's the video involved?

00:27:58.120 We had a couple of journalists on the scene in front of Western Canada high school,

00:28:01.800 my old alma mater, when there was a tussle between different young people over. I'm not

00:28:07.720 even sure what the issue was. I think it might've been over a trans issue. So I don't know,

00:28:11.720 but we covered it and there was some pushing and shoving and we aired, I think 25 minutes worth

00:28:17.800 of footage. Like it's all there. And for these cops to say, no, no, show us the rest of it. I can't

00:28:23.560 help but think that they're actually trying to find some dirt on Josh Alexander, who we would

00:28:29.640 consider the good guy here. He was, I think the victim of this assault. I think that the cops are

00:28:35.800 trying to dig up something on the victim. I've seen this happen by police before and I, I want to fight

00:28:42.440 it. I don't think that rebel news should have to cough up our material to the cops just because they

00:28:48.440 didn't do their own work. It's 9 19 AM at 10 AM. I have a hearing here at the Calgary court of King's

00:28:59.640 bench. The Calgary police service has issued a production order through a judge saying,

00:29:06.040 if we don't hand over certain materials within 30 days, we could be subject to punishments,

00:29:11.960 including says right there in the order prison. Well, it's been more than 30 days. Today is day 49.

00:29:19.320 Sarah, I, um, Sarah Miller, our lawyer, let me say hello and thank you for being here. We know you

00:29:24.680 from your excellent work with Arthur Pawlowski. Um, the court and the law treats seizing records from

00:29:34.040 journalists in a special way. Police just can't come and seize our files. Can they?

00:29:38.840 Right. So they do need a production order, but they also need to, uh, get the production order from

00:29:43.560 the right level of court. Um, and they need to satisfy certain questions to get that production

00:29:48.520 or when they're talking about evidence from a journalist organization. So that's the issue for

00:29:53.560 today's, uh, appearance is the judge that issued the order, um, didn't, didn't have the right sections

00:30:00.520 of the criminal code in front of him to know that he didn't have the jurisdiction. So it seems, um, so

00:30:05.480 we're going to go in. Um, we have Calgary police has, uh, has endorsed my consent order.

00:30:10.440 They finally did. Cause when we spoke a few days ago, they had not yet signed on that. So we were

00:30:16.360 going to have a tussle today. Yes. So we've got, uh, the Calgary police service, um, their director

00:30:22.600 of legal services has signed the consent order. Now they've agreed that, you know, what we've put

00:30:27.000 forward to them, we wrote a letter to them saying, this is what, how it should have proceeded. We don't

00:30:31.640 think the jurisdiction is correct. That kind of thing they've conceded to that. And so they've

00:30:35.240 now signed the consent order. We're going to go in and explain it to the court. Hopefully get the

00:30:39.400 previous order that you're now, uh, overdue on, so to speak, um, overturned and quashed.

00:30:44.840 And we'll go from there. Can I ask you when they finally signed this consent order? Cause last time

00:30:49.160 we spoke, they hadn't done it yet. So I don't know exactly what day I was obviously in court yesterday

00:30:54.040 with Archer. I think I had it on Friday. It may have been earlier than that though. I, I honestly don't

00:30:59.800 recall. Okay. But it was pretty close to it. Anyways, I'm, I'm glad to hear that. That's

00:31:04.200 basically the Calgary police service admitting that their court order to seize our materials

00:31:10.920 was invalid. Am I correct in saying that they're basically admitting what they tried to do had no

00:31:16.440 basis in law, frankly was illegal. Yeah. I wouldn't use the word illegal, but certainly that they, that

00:31:22.120 they misstep, they didn't follow the right procedure. And so they're, they're agreeing that

00:31:25.560 that order is no longer valid. Now, I mean, I understand what an ex parte hearing is in Latin.

00:31:32.120 That means the other side's not there. Only one side is there. And that's used for very special

00:31:36.840 reasons when you don't want to give the other side notice. If you're doing a raid on a biker gang, 0.76

00:31:41.800 for example, you don't want to let them know that the raid is coming. So I can understand that.

00:31:46.520 Why would the Calgary police service have an ex parte hearing in secret and use secret documents

00:31:54.200 to get a production order against rebel news? I don't quite understand. And I understand you

00:31:58.840 asked the cops for their secret documents. You asked for what they showed the judge.

00:32:04.040 Have they gotten back to you yet? I remember when we spoke about this a week ago, they had not

00:32:07.800 have they yet disclosed to you the secret information they told the judge and the secret hearing.

00:32:13.320 Right. So when we asked for the records that they had produced to the judge and in support of this,

00:32:19.240 they said they, they wouldn't give them to us or that they couldn't give them to us and that we

00:32:23.160 should go to the courts. Well, we went to the courts and of course it's all under seal. We

00:32:27.320 can't access anything. They're saying there's nothing there. Um, and this is not unusual for

00:32:32.520 this type of production, right? Remember we are talking about a criminal investigation,

00:32:37.160 some fairly serious charges that have been laid, including sexual assault or that we understand

00:32:41.640 have been laid based on the order, um, has nothing to do with rebel news, but they don't necessarily want

00:32:49.240 to have criminals have a heads up about the evidence that's being collected or any opportunity

00:32:55.080 for the evidence to be destroyed before they get the order in place. Right. But, but this was used to

00:32:59.880 get an order against us, frankly, against me. When, when the order said there could be prison,

00:33:04.680 I presume that that would fall on me. Um, so the likelihood of me being in prison today, you're saying

00:33:11.640 is, uh, now gone. That I will not be in prison. I didn't think it was very high, but if the police were not

00:33:17.560 consenting to it, uh, there was a chance of it. You're saying that I will not be jailed today.

00:33:22.760 That's right. No, there should be no jail today. As far as I know, unless you've been doing something

00:33:26.920 else that I'm not. Not that I know. It was just a little bit startling to get this order from the

00:33:31.640 police, a surprise, surprise, hand over all your files or go to prison. I'm not used to that.

00:33:37.480 Well, and, and the way that they purported to serve it, right, which was part of our,

00:33:41.240 our correspondence to the police, they just sent it to a, a generic rebel news email address.

00:33:46.360 Yeah. That's not, that's not real law. Like there was so many things wrong with it. I counted five

00:33:50.360 things wrong with it. Wrong court, wrong burden of proof, wrong way of serving it, wrong standard

00:33:57.160 of law. There was so many things wrong with this. Is the Calgary police service just that

00:34:04.280 useless? Or do you think that there was a little bit of a, let's get rebel here, no matter how?

00:34:09.400 Well, I actually think that, you know, maybe I'm naive or maybe I have too much faith in the system.

00:34:15.640 I actually think that the criminal code changed a few years ago. And although a couple of years

00:34:20.760 ago sounds like a lot to you or I, um, you know, we're talking about police officers who are

00:34:26.520 front of line, who aren't necessarily dealing with obtaining evidence from a journalist.

00:34:32.200 Well, surely, surely this cop worked with a lawyer, like the Calgary police has lawyers,

00:34:37.240 the attorney general is lawyers. Surely this was a lawyer before they went after rebel news. I can't

00:34:41.320 help but think, Sarah, you know, we fight with police forces around the world. Seriously,

00:34:45.480 we've, we've sued police in Toronto, in Montreal, the RCMP, even in Australia, we fight with police

00:34:53.800 all the time. But the only police force that has tried to seize our documents with a punitive

00:34:59.640 production order are the Calgary police. And I wonder if that's a coincidence, because we have

00:35:06.040 scrutinized their misconduct in Arthur Pavlovsky's case, like that gangland style arrest of Arthur on

00:35:12.360 the highway. That's not policing. That's shock and awe to terrorize people. The way they arrested Tim

00:35:17.800 Stevens in front of his family, the way they threatened to taser Ocean Weisblatt. This is one

00:35:22.840 of the most abusive police forces in the country in my books. And we have documented every step of

00:35:28.280 the way. I can't help but think this was some cop who said squash rebel news. No other police force

00:35:34.760 in the world has tried to seize our documents other than these. I don't know. This is all my speculation.

00:35:39.640 We don't know what's in the mind of these guys, but clearly knowing the law is not in their mind either.

00:35:44.360 Yeah, I, I'm of the sense of, I don't know if they got legal advice before. I don't know that they

00:35:50.120 do that as practice when they're getting production orders. I think that it was, um, ignorance of the,

00:35:56.200 the law rather than anything purposeful, but we'll see how they, how they proceed going forward. If they

00:36:03.320 go and get an order from the higher court, what there's no reason at this point in my estimation

00:36:08.840 to keep it ex parte, right? So they should, we've asked for notice. Hopefully they'll give us notice

00:36:13.400 going forward and, uh, we'll see how they conduct themselves. You know, um, just for those who are

00:36:20.120 wondering, well, what's this all about? What's the video involved? We had a couple of journalists

00:36:24.360 on the scene in front of Western Canada High School, my old alma mater, when there was a tussle

00:36:29.480 between different young people over, I'm not even sure what the issue was. I think it might've been over

00:36:34.440 a trans issue. So I don't know, but we covered it and there was some pushing and shoving and we aired,

00:36:40.600 I think 25 minutes worth of footage. Like it's all there. And for these cops to say, no, no,

00:36:46.840 show us the rest of it. I can't help, but think that they're actually trying to find some dirt

00:36:52.680 on Josh Alexander, who we would consider the good guy here. He was, I think the victim of this assault.

00:36:59.160 I think that the cops are trying to dig up something on the victim. I've seen this happen by police

00:37:04.680 before. And I, I, I want to fight it. I don't think that rebel news should have to cough up our

00:37:11.160 material to the cops just because they didn't do their own work. There were plenty of cops there.

00:37:15.720 They, they witnessed things for themselves. They could have videotaped it. I do not work for the

00:37:19.640 Calgary police. I don't work for any police. And for them to think they can just take our journalists

00:37:24.920 stuff and throw me in prison as the order threatened, if I don't give it, I think this is something we have

00:37:30.280 to stand firm on and we aired 25 minutes of the crime. And I think the cops were just twisting

00:37:37.640 the knife in and I'm going to fight them every bloody step of the way. I don't think they're

00:37:42.200 done today. We'll find out soon, but I don't think they're done with us. Yeah. I, I suspect that this

00:37:47.000 is only step one. Um, we'll see what kind of production order they get in the future, what

00:37:51.480 other steps they want to take against you guys. Um, certainly, uh, I don't know what's in their minds,

00:37:56.440 but it, I, it's unlikely that they're completely done with this. Other media companies in the

00:38:04.280 country have been raided by the police before vice has been the CBC has been, and all the journalists,

00:38:11.320 NGOs come to their aid, the Canadian associations of journalists, the Canadian journalists for free

00:38:16.520 expression, all these do-gooder groups swarm to help vice, swarm to help CBC. I wonder if any of

00:38:23.880 them will give a damn that it's rebel news being raided by police, even though the precedents we 0.52

00:38:28.600 are going to set in this case will redound to the benefit of every journalist in the country.

00:38:33.080 Yeah. Like I said, this is new law, really like new sections of the criminal code only

00:38:36.920 implemented a few years ago. There's very limited case on this. So absolutely going forward, all of

00:38:41.560 this is going to be presidential new case law, um, that helps every journalist.

00:38:46.920 I want to ask you a question that I asked you before, uh, for the first time. And I want to ask it

00:38:51.240 again because I feel like I'm fighting here, not just for rebel news, but I really do feel like

00:38:55.400 I'm fighting for any independent journalists who are left in this country. And I know that

00:38:59.800 CBC journalists are really government journalists. Like they literally are. And I, these days,

00:39:04.120 most newspaper journalists are paid by Trudeau. They literally are, but there are some independent

00:39:09.560 minded journalists left and we're one of them. And it falls to us to bear the burden of these legal

00:39:16.760 battles, which is not how it always was. I remember when I was young, all the media companies would get

00:39:21.000 together, pool their money and hire one lawyer to represent like 10 media companies. And they'd go

00:39:26.360 to court and say, your honor, we represent these 10 media companies and we're here for freedom of

00:39:30.840 speech. That doesn't happen anymore. It falls to rebel news to carry that burden. And I don't want to

00:39:37.720 put you on the spot, but I want to tell our viewers how much this fight for freedom has cost. I received your

00:39:43.320 first bill for $9,000. And that was before we even set foot in court today. If they file another

00:39:50.360 production order, if they keep going at us, this will be expensive. And I just want people to know

00:39:56.280 that we're fighting this because of our own principles, but we're fighting this to set a

00:39:59.960 precedent because if we don't, who will? And I don't want to live in a country where the cops can simply

00:40:04.760 send you an email and say, give us all your private information or go to prison. That is not the

00:40:10.360 Canadian way. And I'm not covering up for any criminal. We aired the footage of the crime

00:40:15.160 before the cops even got back to their office. What kind of a legal fee are we looking at to fight

00:40:22.280 this for freedom? Cause no one else is. So today, obviously, hopefully we'll be very short. So

00:40:29.960 very small incremental legal costs, but if they were going to bring another application,

00:40:33.240 if they're going to give us notice, if the court wants written submissions, this could get up to a

00:40:37.720 $20,000 legal bill because of the work that would be required to respond and to make

00:40:44.280 novel arguments that just haven't been before the court yet. So.

00:40:49.880 What do you think? I mean, I feel like I have to, I feel like I can't roll over. I feel like

00:40:55.240 anything you give away to the stage, you'll never get back. I mean, when I sued Stephen Gilbeau

00:41:01.160 for blocking us on Twitter, people said, Oh, that's small. What are you doing? That's ridiculous.

00:41:05.480 No, it's the principle that if you let them, if they, if you let them get away with this 0.89

00:41:09.800 and with that, then they'll just, it's like the camel's nose in the tent. Soon they'll be inside.

00:41:14.440 I feel like you have to fight these incursions all the time. Even if you lose, you have to fight

00:41:20.360 them because every once in a while you'll win. And I truly believe Sarah, that we are in a dark

00:41:26.120 age when it comes to media freedom. I feel like most journalists have been co-opted. The civil

00:41:31.400 liberties associations have been hitting the snooze button on their alarm clock for three years now.

00:41:36.680 And I, you know, I don't think it's just my quarrelsome nature. I think that this is crazy

00:41:42.120 to get an email from a cop, an email from a cop saying, hand us over all your files in 30 days or go

00:41:50.040 to jail. And that just pricks something in me. And I feel like I have to fight it. And

00:41:56.360 you know, no one has an extra 20 grand kicking around. And so I always go back to our viewers and

00:42:01.400 say, please help. And I'm sure they are tired of it. But I just think that if we don't fight this,

00:42:08.520 it'll be more and it'll be more and it'll be more in the next time.

00:42:11.800 Well, and today is a perfect example, right? Like they went and got this order. They didn't follow the

00:42:17.160 procedure that's set out in the code of criminal code. Why not set them in their place, right?

00:42:24.600 Not to say you're against the investigation or under undermining the investigation, but to say

00:42:30.360 there are rules in place that you have to follow. And if you don't, maybe the next time it's going to

00:42:36.200 be a bigger impact, right? And if they're not held to the standard of law, the rule of law that's set

00:42:41.960 out in our statutes, that's what this is about, right? It's just to follow the law that's set

00:42:47.000 out in our statutes. And if that means eventually that evidence is seized by journalists, at least

00:42:52.680 it is done through a rule of law and through the right legal tests.

00:42:57.800 Well, there you have it. Let me check my watch. It's now 933. Our hearing is in 27 minutes.

00:43:03.480 It sounds like at the last hour, the police said, okay, fine. We didn't do it right. But they're

00:43:09.720 obviously going to come back again. We have to fight them. I believe that this is my duty.

00:43:14.920 If I were simply guided by rational, commercial thoughts, I wouldn't fight any of these legal

00:43:21.320 cases. Very few media do because they're expensive. I mean, you know, there's a Jewish saying,

00:43:30.760 if not you, who? And if not now, when? I mean, if we don't fight this, then who will? And if we don't

00:43:41.000 fight it now, when do you fight it? I really feel we have an obligation. And if you agree with me,

00:43:46.600 please go to defendrebelnews.com. And I wish other media companies would help us. I wish these so-called

00:43:54.760 free speech groups, the Canadian Association of Journalists, Canadian Journalists for Free

00:43:59.080 Expression, Canadian Civil Liberties Association, Penn Canada, Amnesty International. That's a handful

00:44:04.760 of so-called civil liberties groups, all of whom are silent here. I wish they'd help because I could

00:44:09.800 use the help, but I can't count on their help. So I have to make my own help. And if you can help me,

00:44:14.840 please do. Thanks very much. I'll give you an update later on.

00:44:24.280 Hi, everybody. I just got out of court. Look at that big, tall court there. That's the

00:44:29.080 Court of King Spencer. Actually, all the courts are here. It's the Court Center in Calgary. Standing

00:44:34.280 next to me, of course, is Sarah Miller, lawyer for Arthur Pawlowski. And today, lawyer for me and

00:44:39.800 Rebel News. Now, Sarah, we were in court pushing back on a Calgary police production order that would

00:44:46.760 have compelled us to hand over all sorts of files on pain of imprisonment. But you did the background

00:44:54.280 legal work and you filed an affidavit. And the judge actually read the whole file. And she agreed

00:44:59.400 with us today to quash that improper court order by the Calgary police. Why don't you give us a minute

00:45:06.760 on what happened in court? Yeah. So as you saw, I was very quick in court today, very brief. The judge

00:45:13.640 had obviously read our application materials, read our affidavit material, and granted the order,

00:45:19.960 which we weren't 100% sure was going to happen today. There is a case law indicating where superior

00:45:24.200 courts have been hesitant, were refused, or delayed on quash of the order. So we had our consent order

00:45:30.360 signed. We presented it to the court. She said that she had done her homework and reviewed the

00:45:35.880 materials and was ready to grant the order. She said she thought it was the appropriate outcome.

00:45:39.800 Yeah. So that's good because we didn't know until just a few days ago that the police were going to

00:45:45.160 consent to this dismissal. And of course, because I mean, the judge's words, this isn't a run of the

00:45:50.680 mill case asking a superior court to quash a junior court. That doesn't happen very often. And judges

00:45:59.240 don't want to do unusual things without care. So I'm impressed that the judge did her homework,

00:46:04.680 read all the materials, and said that what you had proposed, a consent order,

00:46:09.960 was appropriate. I got one last question for you, though. Did the Calgary police agree to pay any

00:46:16.200 costs for this? Yes. So they agreed to pay costs per

00:46:19.400 since Schedule C. So we have a tariff in the rules of court that set out for certain applications,

00:46:24.760 what costs could be awarded. It's not written in stone per se, but they've agreed to pay those.

00:46:31.960 And approximately how much is that? I have the order here. It's going to be

00:46:38.760 $675. All right. So we spend about $9,000 preparing for today because the police don't

00:46:47.240 know what the hell they're doing. We spent $9,000 because a cop wanted to seize our materials,

00:46:53.560 but didn't do it right. And the Calgary police service will pay us $675. Thank you very little.

00:46:59.080 But we're going to fight back. I'm sure the cops are going to come back with a proper order this

00:47:03.880 time because they were humiliated today. They signed an order consenting to their

00:47:08.440 work being thrown out. The judge said she thought it was appropriate that their

00:47:12.040 work was thrown out. The judge ordered them to pay us $675. The Calgary police are embarrassed

00:47:17.560 by what we do anyways. I'm certain they're going to come back. If they come back,

00:47:21.400 will you be there to fight for us? Of course I will. Of course you will.

00:47:24.280 Every day. Right on. There you have it. I'll wrap up there. Look, it is my belief that the police

00:47:29.720 should not be able to seize journalist material just because they don't like the journalists.

00:47:34.520 And that's exactly what happened here. And the judge signed on the line that is dotted.

00:47:39.480 I believe the cops are going to come back. They're coming for Rebel News, but they got to get through me

00:47:44.280 and Sarah Miller first. If you want to help us out, go to defendrebelnews.com. It's nice

00:47:49.240 to have the cops be ordered to pay us $675. But that's just a fraction of what we've really paid

00:47:54.840 to defend freedom of the press. Thanks for your help.

00:48:08.520 Well, that's the show for today. Thanks very much for watching. And if you were able to,

00:48:13.160 thanks for chipping in. It's going to be a week of trials. And I want to catch up on Tamera Leach's

00:48:17.480 trial, perhaps the most important trial in the country, from Calgary International Airport

00:48:22.440 to you wherever you are. On behalf of all of us at Rebel News, good night, and keep fighting for freedom.

Rebel News Podcast - September 19, 2023

EZRA LEVANT ｜ Freedom under fire： five days, five fights in court for Rebel News

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