Rebel News Podcast - August 11, 2026


EZRA LEVANT | I visited the site of Meta's $13-billion AI data centre in Alberta


Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 13 minutes

Words per minute

171.87

Word count

12,568

Sentence count

654

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Toxicity

7

sentences flagged

Hate speech

12

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Hello, everybody. As you know, a week or two ago, I went to a small town named Morinville,
00:00:04.260 Alberta, for a protest against AI data centers. It was a pretty interesting protest, about 200
00:00:10.180 people. Well, now I went for the other side of the story. I met Nate Glubish, the Alberta
00:00:15.180 minister in charge of technology and innovation. We met at the site of a big AI data center.
00:00:21.400 That's the subject of today's show. I want you to see it though, not just hear it, because that's
00:00:26.900 the reason we went on location. I want you to see where this thing is located. It's not in some
00:00:31.240 pristine mountain glade with Bambi frolicking nearby. It's in a boggy, swampy field next to
00:00:39.860 refineries. It really is the most desolate industrial place in the country. Perfect for
00:00:45.920 this AI data center. To see the video, which I think is quite important, please get what we call
00:00:52.540 rebel news plus it's the video version of this podcast go to rebel news plus dot com click
00:00:57.780 subscribe and not only will you get the video your monthly subscription fee will help keep
00:01:03.180 rebel news strong because we get no money from the government and it shows
00:01:22.780 Tonight, a visit to Canada's largest data center under construction in Alberta.
00:01:29.100 It's August 10th, and this is the Ezra LeVant Show.
00:01:34.660 Shame on you, you censorious bug.
00:01:46.780 Oh, hi, everybody.
00:01:47.880 A couple of weeks ago, I went to a protest against data centers.
00:01:52.120 This protest was in the small city of Morinville, Alberta, but it was on a Sunday in a small
00:01:59.260 city, it's a town really, 200 people showed up and most of them were genuine.
00:02:05.540 They weren't professional protesters.
00:02:07.300 Oh, there were those too.
00:02:08.800 But a lot of people were concerned about AI, artificial intelligence, which is one of
00:02:13.840 the big drivers for building these massive data centers.
00:02:17.720 A data center is really a building with thousands, tens of thousands, maybe a hundred thousand
00:02:24.560 computer chips.
00:02:25.780 And all that computing power is necessary, not just for your, you know, Netflix subscription
00:02:32.420 and for your Facebook account, but it's to drive the massive amount of computing that's
00:02:36.880 necessary for artificial intelligence.
00:02:39.380 And it dawned on me pretty quickly in Morinville that that's the part that people were actually
00:02:44.820 worried about.
00:02:45.480 They were protesting against building this data center in Sturgeon County in northern Alberta, but when they talked about water use and land use and natural gas use and power use, that's not really what bothered them.
00:02:59.040 I mean, for heaven's sakes, it's in a heavy industrial area surrounded by refineries and upgraders and the like.
00:03:05.220 That's not really what motivated them.
00:03:06.740 They were against AI itself.
00:03:08.740 And I get it, by the way.
00:03:10.860 Trouble is, you can't just wish that technology away.
00:03:14.140 I mean, sometimes I long for the days before smartphones, before cell phones, when we actually
00:03:19.920 made eye contact with each other and had human experiences and when we didn't feel the need
00:03:24.460 to click something or touch something every 30 seconds on our phone.
00:03:28.880 Some days I pine for those days too, but you can go off a smartphone yourself, but you're
00:03:34.260 not going to get the world to de-technologize.
00:03:36.660 I just don't think it's possible.
00:03:39.300 People from Ned Ludd, the original Luddite, to Ted Kaczynski have railed against technology,
00:03:44.900 but that hasn't stopped it.
00:03:47.060 And it's clear to me that this is like the space race in the Cold War.
00:03:51.940 Who will get to the moon first?
00:03:54.080 Who will get to space first, the Soviet Union or the United States?
00:03:58.140 If the U.S. said, well, we don't want to go to the moon, no one should go to the moon. 0.67
00:04:02.120 Well, the Soviet Union was going to go to the moon.
00:04:04.340 The analogy today would be China versus America.
00:04:07.660 there will be artificial intelligence. There will be AI. The question is, will it be China or will
00:04:14.120 it be America in the driver's seat? There are reasons to worry about AI for sure. But I'll tell
00:04:19.900 you one thing, at least an American AI that's subject to the rule of law and hopefully some 0.62
00:04:26.420 rules about freedom and truth will be vastly superior to a People's Liberation Army weaponized
00:04:33.720 AI. That's none of that has anything to do with should there be the construction of a computer
00:04:40.340 center in northern Alberta. Anyways, Morinville, 200 people were worried about him. So I got their
00:04:46.020 point of view, the anti point of view, the those who are against it. But I thought it would be good
00:04:52.140 to talk to the man himself, largely responsible for arranging things from a regulatory point of
00:04:58.260 It's a data center owned by Meta, which is the new name of Facebook, a $13 billion investment.
00:05:04.620 But the reason Alberta was chosen had a lot to do with the cooler climate, the industrial land, but also the regulatory rules.
00:05:13.300 What was incredible to me talking to the Minister of Innovation and Technology in Alberta, Nate Glubish, is that from conception to shovels in the ground was two years.
00:05:23.520 I can't think of anything in Canada that's built in just two years. Pipelines take decades if
00:05:30.560 they're even allowed at all. That shows you what can happen if the federal government is out of
00:05:35.280 the way. Anyways, without further ado, please watch the following one hour interview with
00:05:41.760 Nate Glubish, Alberta's minister in charge of AI data centers. We actually met up at the location
00:05:48.260 of the data center under construction. Now it's not being constructed yet. They're preparing the
00:05:53.080 land which is very muddy and boggy but you will see one of the things i emphasized in the interview
00:05:59.380 is it's surrounded by refineries like it couldn't be in more industrial place i mean i don't think
00:06:06.220 they make steel up there but they pretty much make everything else and it was a pleasure to spend so
00:06:12.020 much time with him i'm grateful to him without further ado my one hour interview with alberta's
00:06:17.280 minister in charge of AI. Take a look. So we're driving adjacent to the property where
00:06:26.520 the big data center is going to be built. But I want to point out the place we're in. If you
00:06:32.220 look forward, the entire horizon is dotted with refineries and upgraders and petrochemical works.
00:06:41.860 I don't know what they all are, but this is the greatest concentration of high, heavy industry in Alberta and one of the most in Canada.
00:06:53.060 Like this surely is larger than what remains of the steel and coal industry in Hamilton.
00:06:59.520 There's no tourism here.
00:07:01.420 There's no residential neighborhoods here.
00:07:05.280 This is not pristine ecological land like an old growth forest.
00:07:10.020 there's no there's no interest here other than heavy industry and out that
00:07:17.160 side you can see a mighty railroad track being built like it's already steel and
00:07:24.900 smoke and men and if you were to put a data center anywhere in Canada this
00:07:33.180 would be it it's large parcels of land that are already zoned for heavy
00:07:39.940 industry talk about access to oil and gas for energy I mean one of the things
00:07:45.000 that comes to my mind is the anti everything people they say oh you can't
00:07:49.020 export this I remember when professor Trudeau said there's no business case
00:07:53.220 for exporting natural gas well fine then how about a data center will build a
00:07:59.640 power plant to use Alberta's natural gas and it'll be in this heavy industry
00:08:05.320 zoned area so it's not like a data center for example there's there's one
00:08:10.440 in downtown Vancouver and I'm not against that data center at all I'm
00:08:13.960 just saying if you wanted the best smartest place to put one you would put
00:08:18.960 one in a place where there was no fathomable objection no one who works
00:08:23.460 in this heavy industry heartland would say anything other than welcome to their
00:08:30.000 new neighbors from Meta and there's one more wrinkle to it some of the protests
00:08:36.780 against data centers recently have been in Hamilton have been in Vancouver it's
00:08:44.960 hard to get out here it's hard to get to this place and I suppose you could drive
00:08:51.840 or rent a bus or something but this is not a protest amenable place like
00:08:57.580 downtown Vancouver is where the the vote latte mafia decides what gets built or 0.54
00:09:02.580 not this is Alberta this is rural northern Alberta maybe the hardest 0.97
00:09:07.740 working part of the country no disrespect to anyone else and it looks
00:09:13.500 like they've been working for a couple of weeks now judging by one of the signs
00:09:17.880 And they've already done an enormous amount of work and we're just about a half hour early for our meeting with the minister and the spokesman for the build.
00:09:27.000 So we just thought we'd drive around. There is an enormous amount of economic activity already.
00:09:33.600 Last point, when we were at the anti-data center protest a few days ago in Morinville, Alberta, there were some good people there, by the way, who were concerned about AI and its uses.
00:09:45.900 and I respect that. But the organizer of the protest, Ben Burry, I asked him in particular,
00:09:52.620 why are there no working men here? Why are there no representatives from the trades here?
00:09:59.300 Because how dare you say to the local people here, you can't have good six-figure jobs in your trade.
00:10:08.320 Why are you taking an anti-everything point of view?
00:10:12.900 And Alberta has always been pro-work and pro-industry.
00:10:19.880 And it's been stopped at every turn trying to export that.
00:10:24.740 So it wants to build something heavy and industrial here.
00:10:29.420 And those same anti-everything people want to shut it down.
00:10:32.840 I don't know. I think there's something morally wrong with that.
00:10:35.180 we're going to make our way now to where we're meeting the Minister of Technology for Alberta
00:10:40.000 and the spokesman for the construction. We just want to talk about the facility
00:10:44.320 because it looks like there are already, I would estimate, at least 100 people on site,
00:10:50.520 including a lot of security, by the way. It's very interesting. I'm very glad we're here,
00:10:55.820 and I'm grateful to the minister to agree to meet us. One of the largest industrial projects
00:11:00.200 ever unveiled in canada is happening right on the ground i'm standing and it didn't take a dollar
00:11:07.380 of government money i'm talking about the massive hyperscale data center being built by meta and its
00:11:14.760 partners in northern alberta but you won't be surprised to hear this there's opposition to it
00:11:20.260 too on sunday i was at an anti-data center protest in the town of morinville alberta and i was
00:11:26.620 surprised by the turnout here take a look at this i know that you appeal to the right wing so i'm
00:11:32.040 just going to say something that unifies everyone oh that's a good idea because i'm not here to be
00:11:36.900 partisan believe it or not i'm here to present an issue that's simple okay is that everyone needs
00:11:44.580 to breathe everyone needs to pay energy bills and everyone has information sovereignty the more that
00:11:51.400 that is distorted the more that is controlled by different forces outside of your control
00:11:55.600 the worse it gets.
00:11:57.080 They're building and overbuilding data centers now
00:11:59.360 because of the computational requirements for AI.
00:12:02.480 And AI is something that they're pushing so fast
00:12:04.980 to make money that they're overlooking
00:12:07.320 the downside, unfortunately.
00:12:09.300 Well, I certainly listened to the critics
00:12:10.840 and I got their side of the story,
00:12:12.340 but I wanted to learn more about the case
00:12:14.920 for the data center and indeed for AI itself
00:12:18.580 in Alberta and Canada.
00:12:20.200 So what a delight to have with us
00:12:22.140 for the next half hour or so.
00:12:23.420 the minister in charge of this file in Alberta, who helped shepherd this deal into fruition,
00:12:30.160 Nate Glubish, who is the minister of technology and innovation. Thanks very much for meeting us
00:12:34.780 on the construction site. They've been at it for a couple of weeks now, but you can see there's
00:12:39.700 already hundreds of people working. Yeah, well, thanks for having me. I was very happy to chat.
00:12:43.740 How did this happen? I mean, Facebook and Meta, I think of Silicon Valley,
00:12:48.520 I think of California. How did they choose Northern Alberta of all places for their data
00:12:55.040 center? I think it's their first one in Canada, isn't it? It is. And Ezra, it didn't happen by
00:12:59.000 accident. A couple of years ago, I was down in Silicon Valley for an AI conference and I met
00:13:04.140 some of the leaders of these hyperscale companies. And I heard about their plans to build AI
00:13:09.640 infrastructure for the economy of the future. And they were talking about such big numbers of
00:13:13.920 investment in such enormous facilities that they would require. But the single biggest thing they
00:13:18.040 needed, Ezra, was energy. And we know Alberta is an energy superpower. And so I started shopping
00:13:22.780 around the idea with these folks. I said, well, here's what Alberta looks like. Here's our abundance
00:13:26.320 of natural gas. Here's our ability to build big industrial things. Here's our track record. Here's
00:13:30.240 the receipts. And their eyes started to light up and they got very excited. And they admitted they'd
00:13:35.120 never heard of Alberta before. So we got to work explaining to all of the hyperscaler data center
00:13:40.980 teams, this is what Alberta is capable of doing. Come to Alberta, you won't be disappointed. And
00:13:45.700 Now, fast forward two years later, the first major gigawatt scale campus is underway.
00:13:50.400 We're on site here with the Meta site.
00:13:53.120 I believe this will be the first of several.
00:13:55.500 And this is great news for Alberta.
00:13:57.960 I mean, Meta, what used to be called Facebook, really one of the largest companies in the world.
00:14:03.160 It's interesting that a company of that level would have done its due diligence and said, yeah, go to Alberta as opposed to Texas.
00:14:11.200 I mean, I'm sure they have operations in the States, too.
00:14:14.180 But, I mean, they could have gone near Toronto or they could have gone near Montreal, UBC.
00:14:20.940 And, you know, there's a lot of other places that are, I would imagine, would have been on their list.
00:14:27.820 This particular physical area is an important part of the story, isn't it?
00:14:32.980 It sure is.
00:14:33.780 Tell me about the heavy industrial region we're in.
00:14:36.320 I was driving around earlier and I couldn't even count how many heavy industry refineries and upgraders and petrochemical plants there were.
00:14:44.180 So this fits in a heavy industry site, doesn't it?
00:14:48.480 Well, yeah, it all comes down to location, Ezra, because, of course, you don't want these things right next door to a residential district.
00:14:56.680 You want to make sure that this is in a place that was always zoned for heavy industry.
00:15:01.300 And so we're in the middle of what's known as the Alberta Industrial Heartland.
00:15:05.520 This is where we have all of our refineries and all of our petrochemical processing plants.
00:15:10.280 This is the same area where Dow's large ethylene cracker is being built, which was one of the largest investments in Alberta before this one.
00:15:19.600 So it just makes sense.
00:15:20.920 We have a track record of building big industrial things.
00:15:24.100 Much of that is built here in the Alberta Industrial Heartland.
00:15:27.120 And so it makes a lot of sense that this is where Meta chose to build this next major campus.
00:15:32.040 You know, when I was at the protest, they were talking about environmental impacts.
00:15:36.180 They were talking about water and air quality and things like that.
00:15:40.280 And as we were driving around and we saw all these smokestacks and heavy industry, and by the way, I'm pro smokestack.
00:15:46.420 I'm certainly pro oil and gas. But this is not some pristine meadow in the old growth forest with Bambi frolicking around like this land.
00:15:56.520 There's no residential areas around here. There's no tourism here.
00:16:01.320 Like it's pretty like the fields, but this is not an ecologically critical place.
00:16:08.280 this is made for more refineries. And I think just being here, you see that in a way that maybe
00:16:15.660 these downtown Edmonton or downtown Toronto critics, they don't know what they're talking
00:16:21.240 about. Like this, if it's not a metadata center, it's going to be an oil refinery.
00:16:26.780 Well, and it's funny you should mention that, Ezra. Originally, this site was going to be
00:16:30.540 multiple oil refineries. But inevitably, the private sector investment never materialized,
00:16:37.080 And so those projects didn't proceed, but it was zoned for that.
00:16:39.380 It was it was always going to be something like that.
00:16:42.980 And instead, now what we have is a private sector company willing to spend
00:16:46.580 well over ten billion dollars to build what I like to call a digital refinery.
00:16:50.520 You know, they're they're still taking natural gas.
00:16:53.620 They're going to upgrade it to electricity.
00:16:55.100 They're going to take the electricity and upgrade it to intelligence.
00:16:58.040 And then they can export that intelligence through fiber at the speed of light
00:17:01.300 to anywhere on planet Earth.
00:17:02.600 So this is still essentially a refinery being built here
00:17:05.600 on a spot that was always zoned for refinery-style infrastructure.
00:17:11.560 You know, and I keep thinking back to the protests
00:17:15.800 because I wanted to hear the critics in their own voice, in their own language.
00:17:20.580 And I don't think that they care about jobs, honestly.
00:17:26.220 They had a lot of speakers, including from, believe it or not,
00:17:29.840 the Communist Party was speaking against this.
00:17:32.340 And I said to one of the Communist organizers there,
00:17:35.040 And I said, look, the hammer and the sickle, those are tools.
00:17:38.220 I mean, you guys used to support labor and industry. 0.83
00:17:41.140 I mean, you wanted them to be owned by the proletariat plan. 0.56
00:17:43.760 But where did that go? 0.79
00:17:45.400 Like, why do you guys not even believe in building anymore?
00:17:48.900 These are often six-figure jobs.
00:17:51.200 These are skilled trades.
00:17:53.960 And I mean, these aren't paid for with tax dollars.
00:17:58.720 I think that critics are luxury critics.
00:18:04.060 It's a luxury issue. Being against an AI data center is how you show your good taste, is how you show how modern and fashionable you are.
00:18:13.480 And I think it's the kind of thing that you have to be well-to-do and carefree to be hostile to.
00:18:20.300 I think it's what you would call a luxury issue to be against AI. What do you think?
00:18:25.840 Well, I think there's certainly some of the critics of data centers would look like what you've just described.
00:18:31.420 And then there are some others who, they're just, they mean well, they have legitimate questions.
00:18:38.280 They've seen some examples of projects in the United States that perhaps were not executed as responsibly as what's being built here.
00:18:47.420 And they've got questions, and those questions are rooted in legitimate concerns.
00:18:51.920 Fact is, Ezra, we had those same concerns two years ago when we began doing our due diligence.
00:18:57.000 You know, we don't want there to be risks to the electricity grid.
00:18:59.820 We don't want to see risks to people's power bills.
00:19:02.660 We don't want to have an irresponsible use of Alberta's fresh water supplies.
00:19:08.620 The good news is, is that instead of us rushing to be first,
00:19:12.700 we chose instead to be smartest.
00:19:14.400 We took our time, we did our homework, and we've developed
00:19:17.240 a regulatory environment that's fair, it's clear, and it's
00:19:20.800 it's very competitive.
00:19:22.440 And this way, we are able to ensure that any projects that do proceed
00:19:25.940 So they're in Alberta's, Albertans' interests, Albertans will benefit and our environment will be protected.
00:19:31.760 So I think for those folks, we've got really good answers to their very reasonable questions.
00:19:37.800 To the folks who just want to, you know, they want to leave our oil in the ground.
00:19:41.020 They don't want to see any new industrial investment proceed in Alberta.
00:19:45.220 Well, these folks have been opposing everything in Alberta's heavy industry for decades.
00:19:51.060 It's no surprise to me that they're going to oppose this as the next iteration of investment and economic opportunity.
00:19:58.840 At the protest, there were definitely some anti-everything people, anti-oil, anti-pipeline, anti-mining.
00:20:04.180 But there were some people who had good faith questions about the water use and land use.
00:20:09.820 When I pushed them a bit, it became clear to me that that actually wasn't their real concern.
00:20:16.280 That was just sort of some talking points that they used.
00:20:18.720 When I pushed, including, I met a conservative guy, a rebel news aficionado who was against AI.
00:20:25.860 And when I pressed him, it wasn't the data center.
00:20:29.160 It was the AI itself.
00:20:30.460 Here, take a quick look.
00:20:31.500 Well, I'm here to support anti-AI and data centers.
00:20:36.420 And as a matter of fact, I've been pushing hard, you know, online to stop or just to get stuff like this happening.
00:20:44.280 Would you call yourself a right winger or a conservative?
00:20:46.580 i'm a skeptic or a dissonant i would i don't want to label you label yourself i'm a rebel news fan
00:20:53.940 and i stand behind rebel news 110 now we have some worries about ai we don't understand it fully
00:21:03.520 but one of the things that we came here today to to investigate was are these just anti-industry
00:21:11.140 anti-oil and gas climate activists, because it sounded a bit like they were grafting on
00:21:18.780 the anti-data center stuff to just anti-energy, anti-development stuff. Does that worry you?
00:21:25.920 I think everyone's really concerned. This is very disturbing. We can see what's happening in the U.S.
00:21:32.320 and it's destruction of society and all the freedoms.
00:21:39.540 So there's a good guy. He probably votes conservative. He's a big supporter of Rebel News. But AI itself makes him nervous. I think he's worried about this future that is unknown to us. It's a new industrial revolution, but will it put others out of work?
00:21:58.940 What do you say to people who are uncomfortable or unfamiliar with AI, which is I think most of us, taking it out on the nearest physical thing?
00:22:10.900 So they can't punch back at Mark Zuckerberg in person, but maybe they can oppose this data center as their way of saying, I'm against AI.
00:22:20.600 What would you say?
00:22:21.080 Because I heard a lot of that, actually.
00:22:23.140 What would you say to those people?
00:22:24.580 Well, I would say, look, I understand that concern. I understand fear of the unknown. And when we talk about AI, a lot of folks haven't firsthand experienced how AI can make their life better, how it can make them more productive, how it can help them to earn more money, how it can take them to a more productive state.
00:22:44.780 And so if you haven't experienced that firsthand, I can understand some of the hesitation.
00:22:49.560 And when I talk to folks like that, I like to tell them a story about something that we've experienced inside the government of Alberta.
00:22:54.840 Our goal is to become the most innovative jurisdiction in North America, the most AI native public service.
00:23:01.640 And so we've invested heavily into training our personnel to say we want to equip you with the tools and the techniques and the training to be able to use AI.
00:23:09.300 And so one of our one of my employees, his name is Harris.
00:23:12.500 He's not a senior executive.
00:23:14.700 He's a business analyst who specializes in contracts,
00:23:18.060 and he specializes in our enterprise resource planning system.
00:23:22.100 And he finished our training, and then he went back to his day job with us,
00:23:26.180 and he was looking at his to-do list, Ezra,
00:23:28.500 and the biggest thing on his to-do list was he needed to port 1,500 contracts into the ERP system.
00:23:35.840 Now, these contracts were 300, 400 pages long, highly technical,
00:23:39.060 and he was going to have to map it line by line manually
00:23:42.080 and then input that data into the system.
00:23:45.780 This was going to take him 15 months of full-time work.
00:23:49.680 Now, this was going to be mind-numbing, tedious work.
00:23:52.300 He wasn't very excited about it.
00:23:54.200 But he said, you know what?
00:23:55.660 I have the tools.
00:23:57.600 There's a better way.
00:23:59.020 So he decided to build an enterprise-grade application
00:24:01.520 following all of our standards using all of our tools.
00:24:04.540 And once he had done that
00:24:05.900 and checked it with our cybersecurity division
00:24:07.840 to make sure everything passed our tests.
00:24:10.100 He turned it on, and within two minutes,
00:24:12.200 he had completed that entire 15-month exercise.
00:24:15.000 Two minutes, and it cost $1.12 of AI resources.
00:24:19.600 This is the power of AI.
00:24:21.420 And so, you know, do you think that Harish
00:24:23.180 is any less valuable to the government
00:24:24.660 because he just automated 15 months of work?
00:24:27.740 Absolutely not.
00:24:28.460 He's more valuable to us now than ever.
00:24:30.600 And he's having more fun.
00:24:32.180 He's enjoying his job more.
00:24:33.540 He's feeling more fulfilled
00:24:35.340 because he can see that impact.
00:24:37.520 So our goal is to say, hey, how do we equip people like Harish all across the government of Alberta to be able to accomplish similar things every single day so that they're more fulfilled, so that they have more fun, so that they enjoy their job, so that they can eliminate the tedious, mundane parts of their job and instead focus on how do I do things that previously I wish I could do, but before were impossible.
00:25:00.840 With AI, we can do what was impossible.
00:25:03.840 Now, today, it is possible.
00:25:05.300 And so my message to folks is, you can do this too. And we can help show you how. We can share our training, share our techniques, and we can lead by example.
00:25:15.540 I think with AI, there's something else also. And my colleague Sheila Gunn-Reed says it's sort of like the space race during the Cold War.
00:25:23.960 The Soviet Union and the United States were in a race to who could be in space first, who could land on the moon first.
00:25:29.140 And it wasn't should someone land on the moon. It was who is going to get there first, the Soviets or America.
00:25:37.160 And I think her point is China is moving so fast with AI and they don't have democratic processes and environmental processes.
00:25:47.280 Chinese AI is quite far advanced. And I think one of the questions for data centers and for AI is not will it be here?
00:25:55.820 it's will it be run by China or will it be run by the West,
00:26:01.380 hopefully with some spirit of freedom and truth in it.
00:26:05.220 And I think that that's sort of hard to wrap your head around.
00:26:10.680 But I just don't think the genie can be put back in the bottle.
00:26:13.760 So can we get work out of it?
00:26:16.720 Can we have an AI that we can maybe regulate and temper so it's not doing evil?
00:26:23.160 What do you think of that response?
00:26:24.920 Yeah, I think it's a fair point. AI infrastructure will be built. The question is where, and the question is who will be in charge of it. And my position is that we should want the West and nations who are friendly to the West to be the ones who are leading that charge, to be the ones who have the most sophisticated technology, the most sophisticated capabilities.
00:26:50.460 And we should ensure that that is subject to Western laws and Western rules, you know, where we actually value the rule of law and we value freedom and we value a free market.
00:27:04.220 And truth, you know, like that. That's what scares me about AI is that what if AI were owned by the Communist Party of China?
00:27:13.280 I mean, I would be afraid of that.
00:27:15.700 I think these are reasonable things that folks should be thinking about in the big picture of AI.
00:27:20.460 So if this infrastructure will be built, we should be asking, where should it be built?
00:27:25.080 And I suggest that it should be built in Alberta.
00:27:29.260 Alberta can and should be a cornerstone of North American AI infrastructure.
00:27:34.260 And this way, we know that it is being built in our backyard, subject to Canadian laws.
00:27:42.380 And we will see the economic benefit of the physical infrastructure as it is built and then operated and then maintained.
00:27:49.740 But then that also will create a ripple effect in our economy in terms of the overall supply chain, in terms of local tech companies and researchers being able to use AI infrastructure that is based here and they can build the next generation of AI technologies.
00:28:06.060 This is how we ensure that Albertans will be significant beneficiaries of an AI based economy.
00:28:13.500 I want to talk a little bit more about that in a moment. But first, I think I skipped over the details about the things we mentioned before, the water, the air.
00:28:24.720 I mentioned that this is a heavy industry place. That's not code for so it's OK to pollute.
00:28:30.000 It's it's another way of saying this fits right in. This is not anomalous. This is probably the best place to put it.
00:28:36.880 But what are some of the rules? Like a lot of the people I met at the protest, they would say, well, what about the air and what about water use?
00:28:43.500 And I, of course, don't speak for MET.
00:28:46.280 I didn't have all those facts at my fingertips.
00:28:49.660 Do you want to tell me and through me to our viewers, what are the rules of thumb, not just for this, but for future data centers, too?
00:28:58.260 Because I wouldn't be surprised if people say, oh, well, META has decided Alberta's the right place.
00:29:03.400 They're pretty savvy operators.
00:29:05.240 Let's, you know, join them.
00:29:07.360 And it wouldn't surprise me if within 10 years there was a bunch of these.
00:29:11.360 So what are your rules?
00:29:13.200 Water, power, emissions, stuff like that.
00:29:16.320 Yeah, so let's start with water.
00:29:18.320 First of all, you can't just show up in Alberta and just start pulling water from the ground or pulling water from a river.
00:29:26.060 You have to get approvals to do that.
00:29:27.620 We have a very strict water licensing act that governs how you can do that.
00:29:34.080 And this is done, you know, in such a way where there's a sequence.
00:29:42.300 So first in line, first in right.
00:29:44.000 So anybody who comes now, they will be last in line because they're the last ones to become approved for a water license.
00:29:50.780 And that means that in a period of scarce water, if there's a drought, they're the first ones to be turned off.
00:29:57.000 They're the first ones to be curtailed.
00:29:59.020 So, you know, a project like META's, if they were using lots of water, they would never, it would never compromise households, households access to water.
00:30:08.220 You're saying those who were here already would get priority rights if there was a shortage.
00:30:12.300 That's the way Alberta's laws work today and always have worked.
00:30:15.120 I never thought of Alberta having a shortage.
00:30:17.400 There's the odd drought here and there, but I always thought Alberta had a lot of fresh water.
00:30:20.800 Well, and Alberta does.
00:30:22.020 I mean, you know, it's different.
00:30:23.200 Northern Alberta has more water than southern Alberta.
00:30:25.500 So this is an important distinction.
00:30:27.920 But the most important thing to take away is Alberta has always had very strict water rules.
00:30:33.780 And household water is never curtailed.
00:30:39.800 It would be the last license to be issued.
00:30:43.940 That's the first license to be curtailed in a period of scarcity.
00:30:48.680 Farther north you go, the probability of scarcity of water is much lower.
00:30:53.440 And it's cooler also, so you don't need as much to keep the computers cool.
00:30:58.140 Well, we'll come back to that in a second.
00:30:59.600 That's a really important point.
00:31:00.980 But I think that the most important part about water is that we have really strict rules
00:31:04.340 that ensure that no project will move forward unless it meets our strict water rules and
00:31:11.780 regulations. And in a period of scarcity, Albertans will be protected. We have made
00:31:16.740 sure of that. But I'd love to also just talk about the water use itself. So when people come
00:31:24.720 to me and they say, I have concerns about water use in data centers, and I ask them, well, tell
00:31:29.640 me a bit about what causes you to have that concern. And they tell me stories about some of
00:31:34.600 these examples of data centers in the U.S. that were built really quick, without a lot of due
00:31:39.760 diligence, without a lot of planning. And a lot of them use evaporative water cooling systems where
00:31:45.780 they're literally pouring fresh water over the heat exchangers and evaporating that water to
00:31:51.140 dissipate the heat. Modern data center architecture isn't built that way anymore. It can't be because
00:31:57.940 these things are so sophisticated and they run so uh so hot that that the that that would be so
00:32:06.200 inefficient of a way to cool it instead they use closed loop liquid cooling systems and that's what
00:32:11.740 the meta project is going to use and it runs kind of like a radiator where you fill the system once
00:32:16.760 with a liquid compound and you circulate it through the system to pull the heat out of the
00:32:20.980 data center. It's like a heat pump. I mean, I'm not an expert in heat pumps. We don't really use
00:32:28.100 heat pumps in Alberta. But essentially, it's like a radio. You're running the liquid through
00:32:33.780 the system, pulling the heat out of the hottest sections of the data center, and then taking it
00:32:37.500 to the heat exchangers. And because of our cold weather climate in Alberta, we can benefit from
00:32:43.460 a far more efficient dissipation method to get that heat out of the system. And you don't need
00:32:49.360 to consume a single drop of water
00:32:51.320 in the cooling infrastructure.
00:32:52.900 So as a result, Metta's campus here in Sturgeon County
00:32:56.740 is actually going to use less water
00:32:58.520 than the average golf course.
00:33:00.460 Now, Sturgeon County has over a dozen golf courses.
00:33:03.240 Nobody's protested a golf course.
00:33:06.400 It's very reasonable to say an industrial site
00:33:09.240 of this scale and magnitude
00:33:10.500 using the same amount of water as a golf course.
00:33:13.740 I mean, that checks, that seems very reasonable
00:33:17.020 and very manageable from a resource management perspective.
00:33:21.140 I saw a stat, maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong,
00:33:23.720 that if this land was actually used to say,
00:33:26.900 grow canola, a great Canadian crop,
00:33:30.200 that would use more water than the data center.
00:33:32.880 Have you seen that stat anywhere?
00:33:34.540 I don't have that number at my fingertips,
00:33:37.700 but I think it is an important comparison to say
00:33:40.580 is how much water would be used for other applications.
00:33:43.900 And the fact is, this project is using a very small amount of water compared to what folks think of when they think of a data center,
00:33:52.200 because they were looking at examples in the U.S. that used way more.
00:33:56.020 The good news is in Alberta, following our rules, following our regulatory environment, using state-of-the-art technology,
00:34:02.220 we can develop large gigawatt scale campuses with a very small water footprint.
00:34:09.420 Now, we talked about water.
00:34:11.260 I think the big thing for these data centers is energy.
00:34:14.600 You mentioned that before.
00:34:16.240 And Alberta is energy.
00:34:18.520 And, you know, a lot of these critics, I see a lot of the same people who are AI critics, who were environmental critics, anti-oil critics.
00:34:28.880 And, I mean, I remember Justin Trudeau saying there's no business case to export natural gas, which is crazy.
00:34:36.220 But to me, it's almost like, fine.
00:34:38.240 If you won't, if that's your take, we'll let Alberta use the natural gas itself to build natural gas, clean burning power plants.
00:34:48.160 We don't have to export the natural gas if we use it right here for clean energy sources for these data centers.
00:34:57.160 And that's sort of a rule in Alberta, bring your own power, right?
00:35:00.360 Tell me about that.
00:35:01.080 Yeah. So, I mean, first, as you know, our government is very pro oil and gas, pro traditional infrastructure like pipelines.
00:35:08.000 And I'm really proud of the work that Daniel Smith has done as our premier to make some inroads with the federal government to make progress with traditional pipeline infrastructure.
00:35:18.320 But while that's happening, in addition to that, these data centers are an opportunity for us to develop a global demand for our gas without having to worry about whether we have enough capacity to export that.
00:35:33.660 So what we are able to do is to convert that gas into electricity, convert that electricity to intelligence and export that anywhere on planet Earth at the speed of light through fiber.
00:35:42.940 This is an enormous opportunity for us to exponentially increase demand for our natural resources, to ensure that we see investment, we see jobs, we see new royalty revenues to the province, new tax revenues to the province, all of which will then help to fund health care and education and public safety.
00:36:00.680 Let's talk about that. You know, you've got all these folks working, so you've got the income tax, but you've got property tax, you've got, as you mentioned, royalty on natural gas.
00:36:10.060 What are the stats?
00:36:11.360 Do you know the math for the economic benefits?
00:36:14.040 Well, first thing I would want to mention is these days when we hear government people talk about investing in the economy,
00:36:20.220 that's just code word for they're using taxpayers' dollars.
00:36:23.300 This is completely private money.
00:36:26.420 There is a public dollar side, but it's the benefits.
00:36:29.300 Tell me about some of the expected revenues that the province will get from this.
00:36:34.500 This is one of the things I'm really proud of, Ezra, because when we got started on this,
00:36:37.520 A lot of folks were saying, oh, well, you're going to need to subsidize this.
00:36:41.340 You're going to need to give tax credits.
00:36:42.880 You're going to need to give all kinds of public dollars to attract this investment here,
00:36:49.040 to be competitive with other jurisdictions that are doing those things.
00:36:52.880 But I felt very confident, and the Premier felt very confident,
00:36:57.600 they need electricity more than they need anything else.
00:37:01.060 We don't need to give a single dollar of public resources to these companies.
00:37:06.040 And so we held the line and we designed our regulatory environment to ensure that not a single dollar would be given.
00:37:13.500 And so to now secure a 13 billion dollar investment from Meta on top of a four and a half billion dollar investment by Peminent and Kineticor to build a power plant that's going to help power this site without a single dollar of public investment is a significant deal.
00:37:31.220 So it's 13 plus four, 17 billion dollars.
00:37:34.220 That's staggering. That's bigger than any project that's contemplated right now.
00:37:39.620 It's one of the biggest investments in Canadian history of any type.
00:37:43.620 And we're really proud of that. We did it without having to subsidize it to make it happen in this jurisdiction.
00:37:48.720 We could compete on the strength of our regulatory environment, our access to energy at scale,
00:37:55.500 and a get-or-done business environment and a government that supports getting projects built responsibly.
00:38:04.220 But to your point, Ezra, the money side is on the receiving side.
00:38:08.200 This is the good news for Albertans, is that this one project, the Meta Project, is going to result in approximately $250 million of new benefits to Albertans.
00:38:18.020 New tax revenues, new royalty revenues, new fees, and new, like, I'm not just talking about GDP growth.
00:38:25.240 I'm talking about actual dollars in the bank benefiting Albertans coming in every single year for decades to come.
00:38:31.060 This is one of the most successful economic development exercises we've ever undertaken.
00:38:38.060 I feel that with AI, it's not actually a debate over water or over emissions.
00:38:46.060 It's about, oh, my God, what is happening?
00:38:49.060 And I think there needs to be a—and that's just my view.
00:38:52.060 It's a bit of a fear of the unknown. I think that's correct.
00:38:55.060 I'll go for you. Okay.
00:38:57.060 So we're talking about bring your own energy?
00:38:59.060 energy yeah you know i love this phrase the premier uses bring your own power bring your own energy
00:39:06.180 to people who want to set up a data center that's i haven't heard that before tell me a little bit
00:39:10.500 about what that means yeah well one of the things that's important to us is you know that we had
00:39:13.940 heard from folks who say we don't want data centers to cause a risk to our grid to cause uh
00:39:20.020 stability issues with the grid and we agree right we want to make sure that albertans can rely on
00:39:24.820 on their electricity grid and so one of the things we said is since data centers need so much
00:39:29.460 electricity we want to prioritize projects that are going to bring their own generation
00:39:34.340 and that's one of the things that about this meta project that was so interesting is that
00:39:37.860 yes there is a portion of the site that will be powered by the grid but there's also there they
00:39:42.900 are essentially building a 1.8 gigawatt power plant to serve their own needs on their own dime at
00:39:49.620 their own cost at their own risk they're partnering with pembina and kinetocor to build that that
00:39:53.380 power plant that's a four and a half billion dollar power plant so that's one of the ways that
00:39:58.900 we're protecting the grid another way that we're protecting folks power bills because that's another
00:40:03.140 concern we always get is well is my power bill going to go up and you know we had seen examples
00:40:08.740 in in other jurisdictions where they subsidize the transmission infrastructure they paid for
00:40:14.180 all kinds of electrical infrastructure and ratepayers ultimately bared the cost kind of like
00:40:19.940 like when the NDP decided to phase out coal prematurely, you know, Albertans paid billions
00:40:24.720 of dollars of costs for that. So what we decided to do instead is to make it very clear, if you
00:40:30.240 cause a cost, you will pay for it. And so for example, you know, Meadow was able to secure
00:40:35.840 access to some grid electricity for the first phases of their power project. They're paying
00:40:41.960 over $100 million for the physical infrastructure to tie into that grid. Alberta ratepayers are not
00:40:48.100 going to pay for that. We would not allow for that to happen. We looked to the examples in other
00:40:53.580 jurisdictions. We saw the mistakes that were made. We legislated corrections to make sure that
00:40:57.540 couldn't happen here before project even got off the ground. And as a result, Meta is going to be
00:41:02.340 paying 100% of the infrastructure costs to be able to operate here and to essentially bring
00:41:07.500 their own generation and to pay their own way for whatever grid electricity they have access to.
00:41:13.100 So we've got very strict controls in there to protect grid stability and affordability
00:41:17.740 And, you know, we're really proud of that diligence we put in.
00:41:22.020 The final piece I'd put into Ezra is just the last little piece about the meta deal that I think is really interesting.
00:41:30.680 Because they will be using a portion of the grid, they are going to be one of the largest rate payers for transmission fees in the entire province.
00:41:39.780 And because they are also paying for all of the transmission infrastructure that's required to tie into that grid,
00:41:44.700 That means that they're going to be paying over $100 million annually every year, which will reduce every other Albertan and Alberta businesses' transmission charges correspondingly.
00:41:56.200 So you will likely see, what you will see is about a 6% reduction in the transmission fees for every other Albertan because of this one project.
00:42:05.760 Didn't happen by accident.
00:42:07.500 It happened by design.
00:42:09.100 How long was it from conception to reality?
00:42:13.500 So...
00:42:14.020 Like from the idea to shovel in the ground?
00:42:18.040 I first went down to Silicon Valley a little over two years ago,
00:42:25.280 and that was where I met with a lot of the hyperscaler leaders
00:42:27.860 and learned about the need.
00:42:29.840 So was it in place before then?
00:42:32.300 So a little over two years from concept to then pitching Alberta.
00:42:38.300 I would say this meta project's been about two years.
00:42:41.400 You know, nothing moves that fast in government.
00:42:43.700 Well, like I said, we're really proud of what we've accomplished here.
00:42:46.280 And it didn't happen by accident.
00:42:47.800 It happened by design.
00:42:49.240 Now, when I think of the center of gravity of tech, I think Silicon Valley.
00:42:53.580 I also think, OK, maybe Texas and SpaceX and stuff.
00:42:57.940 Northern Alberta is not what pops to mind.
00:43:00.200 But if META comes and if it's successful and if the regulatory lay of the land is the same for others, you could have.
00:43:09.600 I mean, there are, would you say it's a plan or a strategy to attract other data centers in the area?
00:43:18.180 So when we first launched our AI data center attraction strategy at the end of 2024, I set out our ambition was to attract $100 billion of data center investment within five years.
00:43:30.920 People thought I was crazy.
00:43:31.960 But I think now you're seeing with a single project, you've got almost a little over $17 billion when you include the power generation on the data center from one project.
00:43:41.100 All of a sudden, it doesn't seem so crazy.
00:43:43.300 And I believe this was the first.
00:43:45.580 I believe it will be the first of several.
00:43:47.640 And what we're hoping to be able to deliver for Albertans is a significant economic diversification exercise.
00:43:55.980 This is an opportunity for us to build on our strengths in oil and gas, but expand into tech.
00:44:01.340 We have a super strong tech sector.
00:44:03.820 We've been leaders in AI research for over 20 years.
00:44:06.680 We are now leaders in public sector AI adoption.
00:44:09.940 It makes sense we should also be leaders in AI infrastructure to power government workloads, private sector workloads, researchers' workloads.
00:44:18.300 We can and should do that here.
00:44:20.340 And if we do it right, we can protect Albertans from some of the mistakes that happened in other jurisdictions who rushed there without doing their due diligence.
00:44:29.740 But we can also ensure that Albertans will see significant financial benefit.
00:44:32.660 Are there other companies that you're working with, even if you can't name them?
00:44:36.640 Are there others who are saying, hey, this is moving forward, looks good.
00:44:41.120 Is there room for us?
00:44:42.580 We're in talks with many different companies who see what Alberta has to offer.
00:44:48.280 And they acknowledge that Alberta is a special place.
00:44:50.640 We have what the world needs.
00:44:52.920 And we know how to get.
00:44:55.240 They see our track record of being able to build big industrial things.
00:44:59.020 They see what we've done with the oil sands and the traditional oil and gas industry.
00:45:02.540 They see what we've been able to do with Dow and other petrochemical facilities.
00:45:06.460 And they see what we've now done with this Meta project.
00:45:09.720 And they realize, hey, there's something special about Alberta.
00:45:13.040 And it would be irresponsible of us not to spend some time up here and see if there's a fit for us.
00:45:19.300 You know, there was one more objection that I heard at the protest.
00:45:22.120 And I want to put it to you.
00:45:23.560 It was people saying there was no consultation.
00:45:26.520 Here, let me show you someone telling me that the other day.
00:45:29.620 There's a lot of people who are going to get jobs building this thing.
00:45:32.860 And if we don't build it here, like you say, it'll go up in some place in the States or, heck, in China.
00:45:38.500 And why can't Alberta have some industry?
00:45:41.980 Alberta can't. Alberta can't. 1.00
00:45:43.040 But why not this one?
00:45:43.840 No, see, that's misread.
00:45:45.380 I'm not misread. I'm just putting it. Help me answer my question then. Help me out.
00:45:49.560 You're answering the question by throwing out your own answer.
00:45:52.620 So my answer is this, consultation.
00:45:54.560 Now, I think that critic has dreams of a big bogged down red tape mess that drags things out for years, as frankly, the federal government is now famous for having killed several pipelines.
00:46:12.640 God willing, the proposed Alberta, you know, God willing, Alberta's pipelines go forward.
00:46:17.620 But I think that that criticism misunderstands what's going on here.
00:46:22.160 It would be like any factory. You don't have general public hearings about any given factory, do you? I mean, tell me what approvals were here. I suppose it was the zoning is the main one that this area was zoned for this.
00:46:40.960 What do you say to someone who says there was no public input?
00:46:44.440 My reflex would be to say, sorry, someone from the downtown city coming out here to Sturgeon County and saying, you can't build this.
00:46:51.880 That's not part of our regulatory system.
00:46:54.640 I'm sure you have a better answer than me then.
00:46:57.160 Well, first, I would say, again, it comes down to location.
00:46:59.280 And one of the reasons why this location just made so much sense is it's in the middle of the Alberta industrial heartland.
00:47:04.520 It's been zoned for heavy industrial use for decades.
00:47:07.920 and the consultation around that zoning happened decades ago.
00:47:13.100 So to say there was no consultation is not exactly true.
00:47:17.560 There was consultation when this property was zoned for these types of purposes.
00:47:22.640 It just happened a long time ago.
00:47:25.560 But there should be nobody who lives near here who's surprised
00:47:28.560 that something big and industrial was going to be built here.
00:47:30.960 That was always part of the plan.
00:47:33.800 But, you know, furthermore, you know, before a project can get built,
00:47:37.220 It still has to go through a very strict regulatory environment.
00:47:40.720 Like just because we say just because we say that Alberta is a great place to get things done and to get things built, it doesn't mean that there's not checks and balances.
00:47:49.360 We still have if you want to build a power plant, which most data centers sites are going to require, you need to go through the Alberta Utilities Commission and you still need to get approvals.
00:47:58.780 you need to prove that your air quality after you are operating will meet all of our strict
00:48:06.260 air quality guidelines, both on the site and in the surrounding areas. And compliance with that
00:48:11.860 doesn't stop after you build it. Like that would be an ongoing obligation. There's very strict
00:48:18.620 rules around noise. There's very strict rules around water. So we have all of these protections
00:48:24.260 in place uh and that's and and there's also several opportunities for the public to voice
00:48:32.840 their questions and their concerns into that process uh so all of those processes have been
00:48:38.520 followed and our commitment to albertans is no project will move forward in alberta unless they
00:48:43.980 follow our environmental guidelines i want to put one last thing in i really appreciate you taking
00:48:49.780 so much time and it's sort of noisy in the background here but that's the sound of men and
00:48:54.000 working by the way it's the sound of progress um one of the things that and I'm referring to this
00:49:00.320 protest this was such an eye-opener to me of what people feel about these data centers is sometimes
00:49:05.780 code for other things and one of the things I saw was they were demonizing CEOs of tech companies
00:49:13.200 they had a picture of Peter Thiel a picture of Mark Zuckerberg a picture of Elon Musk
00:49:17.820 with demonic eyes and and like there was a real um it was like you say it was a personification
00:49:25.720 of anyone's feelings about a billionaire or a trillionaire this is the way to punch back
00:49:32.000 and in truth a lot of those tech leaders are a little quirky i mean i i guess you gotta be to
00:49:40.440 be a visionary and a builder like some of these and they've been in the public eye for so long
00:49:45.660 you know there's a saying friends come and go but enemies accumulate you know some people
00:49:50.680 some of these i think of mark zuckerberg of meta you know he in the past has been a censor on
00:49:57.780 facebook and i myself have criticized him so there's a lot of focus on the individual ceos
00:50:07.700 and i think a lot of that's being projected onto a factory here i think of kevin o'leary who's quite
00:50:14.500 character but he's sort of like the bad cop on tv shows maybe he is there a way for data centers
00:50:23.320 to have i don't know a different association with different people with different stories
00:50:30.780 because i think that uh some jealousy of tech ceos and antipathy towards them i saw a lot of
00:50:40.460 emotional hatred towards billionaires being transformed into opposition to a job site.
00:50:47.320 And I wonder if there's a solution to that or if that's just the way it is.
00:50:52.940 I definitely see a lot of the same, that personification issue that you've just described.
00:51:02.680 And I think the approach that I'm trying to take with it is to just take a step back and
00:51:07.440 say, let's remember what this is really all about.
00:51:10.220 This is about ensuring that we can prove to the world
00:51:12.320 that you can build large-scale AI infrastructure in Alberta.
00:51:16.160 Albertans, it will be done in a way
00:51:17.700 that is consistent with Alberta's laws and regulations.
00:51:20.280 It will be done in a way
00:51:21.220 where all Albertans will benefit financially
00:51:22.880 from the outcomes.
00:51:24.980 And once we've proven that,
00:51:27.320 first with Meta, hopefully with more to come,
00:51:30.000 then all of a sudden now,
00:51:32.020 not only do we have this infrastructure
00:51:33.620 that the hyperscalers benefit from,
00:51:36.080 along with Albertans,
00:51:37.540 But then now we start having some made in Alberta, made in Canada sites that are owned by Albertans and Canadians, that are operated by Albertans and Canadians, that are being used to build the next generation of AI technologies that could create billion dollar, you know, 100 billion dollar companies right here in Alberta.
00:51:55.100 You can't do that without the physical infrastructure.
00:51:58.520 So we've got to start somewhere.
00:52:00.400 And my goal was to say, let's bring in other companies who, on their own dime, on their own pocketbook, are willing to build this infrastructure at their risk under our rules in a way where Albertans will benefit.
00:52:13.800 And then let's now get that.
00:52:15.020 It'll be the first domino to fall.
00:52:16.460 We will then get more infrastructure built here, and that will create more opportunity for Albertans.
00:52:20.980 And I think the second part is just to say, look, if you want to look at some of these billionaires and criticize, like, why not spend some time looking at how can you use AI in your life to create more value, to create more wealth for you and your family, to create more opportunity for you and your kids?
00:52:40.820 The opportunity is there.
00:52:43.020 The opportunity has never been so significant and so exciting.
00:52:48.000 And our goal is to lead by example.
00:52:49.800 Let us show you how we've used AI responsibly.
00:52:52.720 I told you the story about Harris earlier.
00:52:54.560 We've had other stories where, you know, on a single project alone, we were able to save Alberta taxpayers $52 million on building something for the Department of Infrastructure.
00:53:02.300 And we have dozens of stories like that that can happen every single year.
00:53:06.040 So if we can save hundreds of millions of dollars for Alberta taxpayers, imagine what every Albertan could do if they were empowered with the same tools, technologies and techniques to use AI in their daily lives.
00:53:17.380 That's what we're hoping to inspire and lead by example so that we can help Albertans reach the best versions of themselves and create the most opportunity and wealth for them and their families.
00:53:27.660 I know we're almost out of time, but there's just one more political question I have for you.
00:53:32.960 Until very recently, the word innovation was something that both the right and the left used in high tech, everything.
00:53:40.700 Everyone wanted to be on the leading edge of high tech.
00:53:43.200 But it feels like in the last couple of years, for certain parts of the left, they flipped against data centers and AI, even though that's obviously the center of gravity for that's where all the energy is on technology.
00:53:56.940 You see Bernie Sanders, the governor of New York, Kathy Hochul has put a moratorium on.
00:54:02.380 In this country, you see Wab Kanu, the premier of Manitoba, just pull the plug on a data center and just totally surprised the company.
00:54:11.240 you have the leader of the NDP here in Alberta, Nahid Nanshi, who used to be an innovator guy
00:54:15.780 himself. Now he's like a Luddite. Why have all the leaders of the hard left suddenly gone
00:54:23.580 absolutely hard line on this? It's almost like they did it all together. What's motivating that
00:54:31.220 and what's your response? Well, I can't really put myself in the shoes of the leaders of the
00:54:38.540 left, I don't understand how they think. But if I had to guess, I think they don't like the tech
00:54:46.280 companies. They don't like the tech billionaires, like you've mentioned, some of the frustrations
00:54:50.940 that have come from, that you've heard from some of the protesters. They see some of the
00:54:57.600 criticisms of data centers. And instead of being willing to do the hard work to understand the
00:55:02.160 issues, to do the due diligence and to say, is there a responsible way to do this? Is there a
00:55:07.280 better way to do this. Instead, they just say, this is bad. We don't want to do it. And then
00:55:11.620 they choose to fight against it for cheap political points. We, on the other hand,
00:55:16.080 we're willing to roll up our sleeves, do the homework, do the due diligence, spend the time
00:55:19.140 to say, hey, we see the opportunity. If we get this right, Albertans will see enormous benefit.
00:55:23.580 Therefore, it's on us to figure out a way to do this right. And so we put the time in. We did the
00:55:29.960 work. We've developed a regulatory environment that makes sense and that finds that balance
00:55:34.280 between protecting the environment, protecting Albertans' interests, ensuring that Albertans
00:55:38.540 will benefit, while still making sure that Alberta is a place where we can build big
00:55:42.200 things. We can dream big and make those dreams happen. That's what our conservative government
00:55:48.380 here in Alberta is all about. We want to create opportunity. We want to ensure that Albertans
00:55:52.680 will benefit from these types of investments. And we've created an environment that will protect
00:55:56.820 that. My favorite part is that there's no taxpayer dollars involved. And then it was
00:56:01.640 from conception to shovels in the ground in two years. 0.90
00:56:05.480 That's just so un-Canadian. 1.00
00:56:08.100 I mean, I don't remember the last time that's happened, 1.00
00:56:11.140 so I'm excited about it.
00:56:12.640 I'm going to keep following this.
00:56:14.020 This is very interesting, and one of the interesting things to me
00:56:16.980 is that it's a brave new world, and people are afraid of that world.
00:56:24.040 I think there's some reason to be afraid of it,
00:56:26.320 but they're taking it out on concrete, real things like jobs
00:56:30.440 and factories. And to me, that's the worst of all outcomes. And I don't know, I think part of it is
00:56:38.140 an explaining job and a respecting people who are afraid. To me, it frankly came down to that rebel
00:56:44.940 supporter, that conservative guy. And I thought, why on earth would a conservative oppose this?
00:56:50.100 But he gave me his reasons. And I think people need some help in processing in their brains
00:56:57.480 this change and what it means for them and uh so i think it's going to be a long battle and
00:57:03.120 and statistics and numbers are part of it for sure but i think people need an aesthetic and
00:57:09.800 an emotional answer for why they don't have to be afraid and um and that's something i think both
00:57:17.920 industry and government are going to have to work on for a long time and frankly it's something i
00:57:22.120 i was puzzled at that protest because it was there were bad actors there but there were also
00:57:27.800 real people who were scared i guess maybe give us one closing line put aside the stats and the
00:57:33.960 talking points if there was a someone here who said i'm worried about losing my work to tech
00:57:39.880 i'm worried that i would have been the guy spending 15 months on that project i'm worried
00:57:47.240 that someone is stealing my stuff like we had people the protest say my book was stolen by ai
00:57:53.320 my my personality was stolen like what give me an emotional answer to someone who's actually
00:57:58.920 scared not faking it and not just using it for a political weapon what give me one last word for
00:58:04.360 them yeah well i would just say look ai is a tool and like any other tool it can be used responsibly
00:58:11.300 and for good and it can be used for bad that doesn't mean the tool itself is bad it means
00:58:16.340 that we need to understand it and we need to ensure that we use it the right way my goal was
00:58:23.780 as the government of alberta to show what that right way looks like and to say here's what
00:58:28.240 responsible use of ai looks like and how it can benefit all albertans and we've been able to do
00:58:33.880 that to save hundreds of millions of dollars for our taxpayers and then to then say how can we help
00:58:39.820 equip you with those same opportunities we've published our alberta ai academy that we use to
00:58:46.240 train people like Harish in our own team. And we've said, we're giving that away for free to
00:58:51.760 Albertans, Canadians, and the whole world, because we want to say, if we can do it, you can do it too,
00:58:56.380 and we can show you how. And we've also published a series of white papers to say, this is our
00:59:02.700 roadmap on how we use AI as an organization. We've shared all of our code, our AI agents,
00:59:09.580 all of the technology that we've built in order to build enterprise-grade applications with AI.
00:59:18.240 And we've given that away for free to the entire world to use.
00:59:22.120 So there's never been a better time to learn how to use these tools.
00:59:27.080 And so what I would say to those folks who are concerned is to say,
00:59:29.600 let us help you discover what's possible.
00:59:32.960 Hopefully we can inspire you with some real-world examples of what we've been able to do
00:59:36.440 and set you on a path where you have the tools you need
00:59:40.700 to accomplish similar scale outcomes for you and for your family,
00:59:46.900 for your kids, whether it be in your personal life,
00:59:49.240 whether it be in your professional life,
00:59:50.580 if you're in a business or whether you work for somebody.
00:59:54.000 Let us help you make more money.
00:59:55.580 Let us help you create more value.
00:59:56.920 Let us help you become more fulfilled.
01:00:00.800 AI has the capability as a tool used responsibly,
01:00:04.000 wielded the right way to do all of those things. You're right to have some concerns. We're working
01:00:09.660 hard to show that this is the right way to use it. And when there are examples of abuses of AI,
01:00:16.160 we will step in to regulate. And one example of that is in the use of deepfake technology,
01:00:23.660 especially in the application of intimate images and video, which is an absolutely despicable use
01:00:28.560 of AI technology, we are going to be bringing forward legislation this fall to make that
01:00:34.540 against the law and to punish those folks who use AI in that irresponsible way.
01:00:39.860 So AI has the power to do enormously powerful things that will make folks' lives so much
01:00:46.500 better.
01:00:47.680 We're going to give them the tools and the technology and the training to do that.
01:00:51.340 And when there are abuses, we'll make sure that we step in to protect Albertans' interests.
01:00:55.260 Minister, I can't thank you enough.
01:00:56.300 You spent so much time with us today and my mind is buzzing with the things you said and the things I've seen.
01:01:03.620 And I think this is going to be an important issue in the years ahead.
01:01:06.580 And I do hope that this is the first of many.
01:01:09.340 But I also hope that we can address the real genuine fear that I sense out there.
01:01:15.740 Not the bad faith actors, not the anti-everythings, not the people who would rather have this built in China rather than here. 0.93
01:01:22.200 What do we do about real Canadians who are just worried that, in the words of Yuval Noah Harari, they'll be turned into useless eaters?
01:01:29.500 I can't stop thinking about that terrible phrase. 0.99
01:01:31.960 We see the creation of a new massive class of useless people. 0.68
01:01:36.500 As computers become better and better in more and more fields,
01:01:42.540 there is a distinct possibility that computers will outperform us in most tasks and will make humans redundant.
01:01:50.400 And then the big political and economic question of the 21st century will be, what do we need humans for?
01:01:58.220 Or at least, what do we need so many humans for?
01:02:01.620 Do you have an answer in the book?
01:02:03.560 At present, the best guess we have is keep them happy with drugs and computer games.
01:02:10.240 But this doesn't sound like a very appealing future.
01:02:13.800 How do people find meaning and purpose in a world where a lot of what they used to do is done elsewhere?
01:02:23.500 These are things to think about.
01:02:24.760 And I appreciate you being part of the conversation.
01:02:28.440 And my favorite part today was seeing all these working men and women.
01:02:32.860 And I defy any anti-AI activists to come and look them in the eye and say,
01:02:37.820 you can't build this factory because I would rather have it out of sight and out of mind.
01:02:43.040 And a very interesting day. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me, sir. Right on. Yeah. There he is, Nate Lubish, the Minister of Technology and Innovation. I'm standing at the southeast corner of the parcel of land that's going to host the Meta Data Center. It's a really big piece of land. But as you can see, it's not particularly interesting. It's not like an old growth forest or a pristine mountain glade. It's just a rough field. It's really boggy.
01:03:12.140 there's no residential areas around you there's no tourism this is what it is
01:03:17.840 going to be used for some heavy industry and I say that by looking just across
01:03:23.300 the road at this enormous facility this is a terminal for oil tankers these are
01:03:30.520 because pipelines have been stymied well they built a moving pipeline that you
01:03:36.200 see every day across the prairies which are endless long trains with oil and
01:03:42.660 other products from oil that is shipped out of Alberta and this terminal is where
01:03:50.160 a lot of it gets done but even in the further distance you can see upgraders
01:03:54.200 and petrochemical plants and refineries and it's sort of an amazing vista I
01:04:00.440 really don't know any other place in Canada that we would be built up like
01:04:04.940 this. And every one of the jobs here, and there are thousands, is a skilled trade. And I don't
01:04:16.360 know what every job earns, but a lot of these higher end skilled trades are making a quarter
01:04:22.160 million dollars a year. And this meta data center will probably not be as intensive an employer
01:04:32.120 as, say, this rail terminal, but you never know.
01:04:35.660 And I love it for that reason alone.
01:04:41.240 I love it that Alberta can build a massive industrial complex
01:04:47.080 without having to beg for permission from Ottawa,
01:04:51.440 without having to pay some shakedown to British Columbia's NDP leader,
01:04:56.820 without having to sit before some kangaroo court regulator
01:05:01.300 only to have the terms ripped up, as happened to so many pipelines.
01:05:05.420 I also love the data centers precisely because they do use energy.
01:05:10.200 One of the complaints of the antis is that they use energy.
01:05:13.400 Yeah, energy made in Alberta.
01:05:15.960 And I remember when Justin Trudeau said there was no business case
01:05:19.120 for exporting liquefied natural gas, LNG. 1.00
01:05:22.100 What a ridiculous and stupid thing to say. 0.99
01:05:24.220 But he managed to block exports in different ways for years. 1.00
01:05:29.120 Well, now there's a way for Alberta to sell that natural gas to customers right here.
01:05:35.320 If Trudeau wouldn't let us sell to Germany and Japan and Ukraine and Korea, well, fine, we'll sell to companies right here and use it right here.
01:05:44.760 I think that's a wonderful answer.
01:05:47.740 You know, when I was at the anti-data center protest a week ago, I asked the organizer, why aren't there any working men here?
01:05:55.600 Why aren't there any tradesmen? Why aren't there any labor councils? Well, it's sort of obvious why, because working people love this project. This is how Alberta does it. This is how Alberta has the highest standard of living of the country.
01:06:11.060 And the NDP, which used to be a workers' party, and even the Revolutionary Communist Party, which was at the protest, their symbol, the hammer and sickle, they don't believe in those anymore. They don't actually believe in work anymore.
01:06:25.060 I want to say that the problem I had with that protest was not their arguments against the data center, which were clearly fabricated.
01:06:37.060 I mean, there's no genuine reason to oppose the data center for any environmental reason.
01:06:43.360 It is a lighter touch than, frankly, a lot of these heavy industries around here.
01:06:48.560 It really is going to be a delightful neighbor to the other industries around here.
01:06:54.960 The only thing I had a tough time arguing and rebutting at this anti-data center rally
01:07:01.480 was AI itself and what it means to people who will be left behind.
01:07:05.740 And what was interesting about my conversation with Minister Glubish is that he had all the answers for the technical objections.
01:07:12.740 What about power use? What about water use? What about, you know, electrical grid use?
01:07:19.740 But there's an aesthetic, emotional part to this debate that no one has yet answered.
01:07:26.740 I mean, I personally admire the technology and the tech CEOs, some more than others.
01:07:34.740 but not everyone shares that view a lot of people are afraid that they will be
01:07:39.960 left behind and that's not a problem that can be fixed or not fixed here in
01:07:45.540 Sturgeon County in Alberta whether or not this data center goes or not is not
01:07:50.800 going to solve those existential angst questions what's my purpose in life will
01:07:55.960 I have a job what does it even mean to have a job when AI can do humans work
01:08:01.760 better and faster than us those are all very challenging questions that probably
01:08:06.260 have a spiritual component to them by the way but shutting down construction
01:08:13.100 jobs and factory jobs now in Alberta now is not going to allay those fears and
01:08:22.040 that's why one of my major criticisms of these anti data center protesters is
01:08:30.980 is that what they're effectively doing
01:08:33.920 is driving this construction to China.
01:08:37.420 Because like the Soviet versus American space race,
01:08:41.000 somebody's gonna get to the moon.
01:08:42.440 The only question is who will get there first.
01:08:45.100 Somebody's gonna build these data centers,
01:08:47.380 whether it's Huawei and the People's Republic of China,
01:08:50.460 or whether it's Meta and the province of Alberta.
01:08:54.860 And you simply can't put that genie back in the bottle.
01:08:58.300 And maybe it would be nice if we could.
01:09:00.160 Maybe it would be nice to go back before, you know, our cell phones took over all our free time and made us hooked on our phones all the time.
01:09:09.860 Maybe it would be nice to go back a generation technologically, but that's not going to happen.
01:09:17.380 And I think people are taking out their concerns about AI on a physical structure that, frankly, there's no better place in the world for it. 0.74
01:09:28.820 I guarantee you that data centers being built in China don't give a damn about the environment at all or workers rights.
01:09:36.820 I can guarantee you that they're not being done as democratically and as responsive to the people as done here in Alberta.
01:09:43.820 I'm going to keep following this story because we're going to have to.
01:09:47.820 this is going to be the story of our generation what it means to live in a in the next industrial
01:09:55.420 economy where so many things are done by computers and by machines but avoiding that is not something
01:10:04.860 that can be achieved by shutting down this data center as the leftist plan to do i'm
01:10:10.140 I'm going to keep thinking about this for a while.
01:10:20.480 Well, what do you think about that?
01:10:22.120 I mean, I'll be candid with you.
01:10:24.100 I think that proponents of data centers have to answer for AI itself, not that they morally
01:10:30.620 have to, well, maybe a little bit, but politically, that's the front line in the battle.
01:10:35.200 People are not actually worried about the land use here or the water use.
01:10:41.280 As the minister pointed out, it's about the same as a golf course.
01:10:45.400 And there's a dozen golf courses in the county.
01:10:47.500 People are worried about AI itself and what it means.
01:10:49.840 And you heard that creepy guy there, Yuval Noah Harari, saying, talking about useless
01:10:55.680 eaters, that people will just be on drugs and playing video games because AI will replace 0.86
01:11:01.480 people.
01:11:02.160 That's what people are terrified by.
01:11:03.980 and i think a positive hopeful vision is required to rebut that i don't know it's very interesting
01:11:11.720 days well i'd like your thoughts on it here's some emails about my story about the edmonton police
01:11:17.840 and their crazy censorship their policing of non-crime hate incidents cheryl semrau says
01:11:26.320 the mayor and city council were upset that chief of police reichel went to israel now i know the
01:11:32.060 mayor and city council are anti-Semitic. This is in Edmonton. Well, that's another controversy that
01:11:38.440 the police chief went to Israel to study policing. You know, police chiefs visit other countries to
01:11:44.080 compare notes all the time. Frankly, the amount of pro-Hamas activity in Canada, I think we need
01:11:50.340 to consult with experts on fighting terrorism. John Hunter said, in a free society, the ability
01:11:56.300 to hate is guaranteed. The ability to act on hate is different. I think that's such an important
01:12:01.520 point. People who say anti-hate or abolish hate, you cannot pass a law that changes someone's heart.
01:12:09.820 And by the way, if you think you've convinced them to stop feeling certain ways, all you've done is
01:12:15.380 stop them from saying how they feel. You've probably made the problem worse. As I always say,
01:12:20.220 hate comes from a grievance, real or perceived. And if you tell people they're not allowed to
01:12:25.460 have a reaction to that grievance, they're not allowed to feel a certain way, they're just going
01:12:29.640 to feel it even more because it's going to actually prove to them that they were right.
01:12:34.880 The way is to air these things. I think that freedom of speech is a safety valve. If you look
01:12:40.860 around the world, the places with the most violence are the places with the least safety
01:12:45.900 valves of freedom of speech. I think that freedom of speech is a core value. It's being challenged
01:12:51.700 though, because we're bringing in people by the million who neither believe in free speech nor
01:12:55.920 our liberal values. We're in tough days, aren't we? That's our show for the day. Until tomorrow,
01:13:02.000 on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters, to you at home, good night,
01:13:05.920 and keep fighting for freedom.