Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ Interview with Keith Wilson, the lawyer going to federal court to fight Trudeau's suspended ban on unvaccinated travellers

00:00:00.000 Hello, my rebels. Today, a feature interview with Keith Wilson, the lawyer for the Justice

00:00:04.560 Center of Constitutional Freedoms, who's in federal court tomorrow on behalf of his clients,

00:00:09.180 including Brian Petford, the former premier, arguing against Justin Trudeau's ban on

00:00:16.480 unvaccinated people flying. Now, that ban has been suspended, at least temporarily,

00:00:21.780 who knows, maybe longer. But the federal government wants the whole lawsuit thrown

00:00:25.740 out saying, well, it's no longer relevant. That hearing is tomorrow. I'll talk to Keith about

00:00:30.540 what to expect. But first, let me invite you to subscribe to Rebel News Plus. That is the video

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00:01:05.320 to rebelnewsplus.com. All right, here's today's podcast.

00:01:21.480 Tonight, a feature interview with Keith Wilson, the lawyer going to federal court tomorrow to fight

00:01:30.440 against Trudeau's suspended ban on unvaccinated travelers. It's September 20th. And this is the

00:01:37.480 Ezra LeVant Show.

00:01:41.780 Shame on you, you censorious bug.

00:01:44.920 Well, we've interviewed our next guest several times before Keith Wilson. King's counsel is a

00:01:59.600 senior lawyer from Alberta who works with the Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms.

00:02:04.440 One of the cases we focused on with him is the case of Brian Peckford and other plaintiffs who filed

00:02:10.480 a lawsuit on constitutional grounds challenging Trudeau's ban on unvaccinated people flying

00:02:17.960 in the second largest country in the world, one of the coldest countries in the world to tell people

00:02:24.040 they can't fly. They have to drive because they're unvaccinated or they can ride in a bus. Apparently, 0.99

00:02:30.760 the COVID virus knows not to attack you if you're in a bus, but it will attack you in a plane. There's

00:02:36.560 no science behind it. It's just vengeance. This lawsuit was filed many months ago, and it has taken

00:02:43.080 months to proceed for various government witnesses to answer questions under oath. And it's on the eve

00:02:50.520 of trial, but as you probably know, a few months ago, Trudeau suspended his ban on unvaccinated people

00:02:57.400 flying. And so the government is saying this lawsuit is now moot. It shouldn't be heard at all. But I think

00:03:05.340 it's important that the lawsuit be heard in any event. We need to know, was it legal? Could they do it

00:03:12.060 again? I think our judges have been too deferential these last two and a half years. So what's next is a

00:03:17.780 feature interview about this subject with Keith Wilson. And joining us now to talk about this very important

00:03:28.140 court case is our friend, the lawyer who has been on the file, well, really, since it was filed,

00:03:33.920 Keith Wilson, QC, who is in Ottawa on the eve of the federal court hearing tomorrow. Keith, great to see

00:03:40.860 you again. Thanks for joining us. The government does not want this to go to a hearing. They want to

00:03:47.380 stop a full trial on it. Why would they want that?

00:03:51.520 Well, maybe they're afraid they're going to lose. Maybe they're afraid that the court is actually

00:03:57.280 going to rule that the provisions of forcing Canadians who are unvaccinated or preventing

00:04:06.400 Canadians who are from unvaccinated from flying and traveling in and out of our country is 0.99

00:04:11.960 unconstitutional. The evidence that came through the processes that we've used in this case of cross

00:04:20.100 examining 16 government witnesses hasn't been very good for the government and has really revealed

00:04:26.800 that the decision making was more political than science based. You know, I see a theme here. There

00:04:32.940 are an enormous number of smaller level tickets that have been handed out over the past two and a half

00:04:39.420 years, not just by the feds for quarantine act violations, but by the provinces and cities even.

00:04:44.940 And I see a theme because at the democracy fund, they're representing about 2000 cases and the

00:04:51.940 justice center representing an enormous number as well. What I've observed is that the government

00:04:56.640 would rather delay and delay and delay and delay so that there is no moment of truth that they're

00:05:01.620 hoping that people will either be deterred by these tickets or just pay the tickets. They don't want

00:05:09.060 to have a moment of truth where perhaps hundreds or thousands of tickets will be retrospectively

00:05:16.020 declared illegal. I think that they want to sort of get away with it without having any judicial

00:05:22.100 grownups look things over. Well, that's a great point. I mean, if we're ultimately able to argue our

00:05:28.460 case in court on behalf of former Premier Peckford, nor the last signatory to our and drafter of our

00:05:35.520 Charter of Rights and Freedoms, who's adamant that he never envisioned that laws would be allowed to

00:05:42.400 oppress a minority group or Canadians in the way that this Trudeau government has, it could have

00:05:50.760 implications for those tickets. It's clear that the federal government, the reason for the motion

00:05:56.020 tomorrow is by the federal government to try and strike out our case and prevent it from being heard.

00:06:00.540 And what's really important, and we'll be emphasizing tomorrow, is that all the work's been done.

00:06:07.280 The amount of hours we put in, we filed 15,000 pages of evidence in our compendium. We've cross-examined

00:06:16.120 these 16 government officials and purported experts. We presented our own expert witnesses with expert

00:06:22.280 reports to expose the problems with the vaccines and the side effects of dangers to their ineffectiveness,

00:06:31.380 you know, we've all put a tremendous amount of work in, we're ready to go, and here the government

00:06:36.740 shows up and says, no, no, Canadians, the 6 million Canadians who've been impacted and had their

00:06:41.820 charter rights violated are not going to get their day in court.

00:06:44.740 Right. Yeah, my comment about the other tickets was not that they're necessarily the same species

00:06:49.660 of law, but just the same political rope-a-dope. If the government can just hang on and just avoid a

00:06:56.440 moment of truth, it can sort of get away with things. Now, mootness, I think a lot of people

00:07:02.260 understand sort of instinctively, you know, we use the phrase that's a moot point, as in it's not

00:07:07.840 a live controversy anymore. And I can see in some ways why they would say that, because

00:07:14.040 those 6 million Canadians who were essentially put on a no-fly list, I was one of them.

00:07:20.720 Well, I can fly again. But I think the problem is we know that these lockdowns can be flipped back

00:07:28.480 on like a switch. Lockdowns were lifted and then reimposed, lifted and then reimposed.

00:07:34.040 I think that as long as it remains a possibility, as long as the governments don't renounce it,

00:07:41.540 it could come back in a heartbeat. I mean, Trudeau has talked about the need for, to be, quote,

00:07:48.300 up to date with your jabs. He no longer says two jabs or three jabs. He's got a rolling number that you

00:07:54.080 can never stay current with. I think that although it may be moot today, it may be very real and very

00:08:01.760 live tomorrow. Well, and I'm not even convinced it's moved today. And the reason I say that is

00:08:08.880 in the government press release and press conference they held in early June, where they announced that

00:08:16.020 they were suspending the travel vaccine mandate, they used the word, even in the printed press release,

00:08:25.760 they used the word suspend seven times. And the Minister of Health, Federal Minister of Health,

00:08:31.480 made it clear in his own words at the press conference that he would not hesitate to bring

00:08:36.360 these back in. And there's one other thing that's a detailed point that's important.

00:08:41.700 It's not like they have to call Parliament into session and have an open debate about whether to bring

00:08:49.300 back in the travel mandates. That's not how this works. It's the Minister of Transportation in his office

00:08:55.240 signing a document. The Minister has the authority, they claim, under the Aeronautics Act to do this.

00:09:02.280 So it's not like they have to go through a consultative process, a process that's intensively

00:09:09.480 democratic and deliberative and discussion-based and public and transparent. The Minister could be

00:09:17.920 signing the order to reinstate them right now, right this minute, as the listeners are listening to

00:09:23.840 this. And that's all it takes. So there's many reasons why we say, first of all, it's not moved.

00:09:30.740 And there's some other ones, too. There's still elements of these that are in the order that are

00:09:35.080 still in force. For example, the requirement that you disclose your private personal information about

00:09:41.480 your vaccine status. You need to disclose that when you get on an airplane to fly back into the country,

00:09:46.600 because if you're not vaccinated, you have to quarantine for 14 days. Right. So there's still

00:09:51.960 elements of the order that are in force. But more importantly, we emphasize in our written

00:09:56.120 submissions and will tomorrow orally, the Canadians right now are uncertain about where they sit with

00:10:01.360 this government. They're uncertain about what the charter really means. They're uncertain about

00:10:05.380 whether they should plan trips, important trips, to see family members, to help care for family members

00:10:10.440 and go to funerals and be at family members' bedside when they're dying. And they shouldn't have that

00:10:16.080 uncertainty. We're Canadians. Mobility is one of the most important rights under our charter.

00:10:21.560 It's one that cannot be overridden because people hear about the notwithstanding clause. It doesn't

00:10:24.700 apply to Section 6 mobility rights just for people to be aware of that. So this is tremendously

00:10:31.440 important. We've spent all the resources. The legal dollars have been spent. The hard work has been

00:10:37.240 done. We have a hearing schedule starting October 31st. So tomorrow we're hoping to persuade the court

00:10:42.640 that legally, when you look at the case law and the Supreme Court of Canada's direction on a situation

00:10:48.240 like this, that we check all the boxes and this case has to go ahead. And it's also important,

00:10:53.780 I'll say one more thing, Ezra, because I know I'm running long here, but

00:10:56.700 the court's brand is in trouble right now. By that, I mean the institution of our court

00:11:05.540 as one of the key elements in our democracy is not in good shape. People's confidence in the courts,

00:11:13.260 I think, is at an all-time low. Are the courts there to be an overseer of government overreach

00:11:18.700 and a protector of people's rights and freedoms, or are they not? So I guess tomorrow we're going to

00:11:24.480 find out. You know, that's a great point. You mentioned that this could be reimposed with the

00:11:29.500 signature of an anonymous bureaucrat in a closed room by himself literally could be happening right

00:11:34.620 now. There are not a lot of checks and balances. We haven't had a vigorous opposition. All the normal

00:11:40.980 checks and balances in society have failed until most recently the leader of the opposition himself

00:11:46.640 did not oppose. The media has been a chorus cheering on the government. The, you know, anyone who

00:11:53.500 was a dissenter, say a doctor with a different opinion, would be hounded by his college of physicians

00:11:58.420 insurgents. And the courts, you're so right, their brand is in trouble. Other than the case of

00:12:04.580 Arthur Pawlowski at the Alberta Court of Appeal, I am unaware of a senior court in a substantive manner

00:12:11.220 striking down any element of an important lockdown provision anywhere in the country. I mean, you tell

00:12:17.480 me if you know of one that I'm not thinking of, and our Supreme Court itself hasn't even touched the

00:12:22.440 subject. It's been two and a half years. It's like our Supreme Court's been on vacation when we've had

00:12:28.240 the civil liberties bonfire. It really is. There's so few checks and balances. If we don't have the

00:12:36.320 right to this trial next month, it really will feel like that the whole thing's an inside job.

00:12:43.880 Agreed. I mean, it's, it's, I think it's how we define ourselves. That's why you saw during the

00:12:49.560 trucker protests. You know, the most common, uh, um, reproduced sign was the charter of rights and

00:13:00.160 freedoms, handmade signs all over the place. But so many trucks had the charter in their window.

00:13:06.720 They had it, uh, pasted or taped to the side door, or they had blowups of the charter. Um,

00:13:14.540 and it's because how we define ourselves as Canadians and, and, you know, look at who my

00:13:19.180 client is, the Honorable Brian Peckford, former premier of Newfoundland, last surviving drafter

00:13:27.200 and signatory of our charter of rights and freedoms. And as you know, cause you've got him on your

00:13:31.780 program, he's beside himself as to what's happened to our country and what's happened to the charters.

00:13:36.960 So, um, uh, this is a real, tomorrow's an important day for Canada. You know, I mentioned how so many

00:13:43.140 institutions that normally are a check on power have either been silent or egging on power. The

00:13:49.640 media are amongst the worst. Uh, I, I didn't mention the historic, traditional left-leaning civil

00:13:58.600 liberties associations. When I was a young man, I remember Alan Borevoy of the Canadian civil liberties

00:14:04.600 association. He was a real classical liberal. He was a lefty, but he, he loved freedom and he was

00:14:10.840 always railing against authority. Um, I liked him. I liked his style. I liked the fact that he felt like

00:14:17.100 a David versus Goliath. And I didn't mind the fact that he was much to my left because I felt like he

00:14:22.440 was a public spirited man. The Canadian civil liberties association is an example of a group that

00:14:28.880 we really could have used the last two years, but they were sleeping. So there's the justice center for

00:14:34.300 constitutional freedoms. There's a democracy fund, a few cases with the Canadian constitution fund,

00:14:41.360 CCF. And I think I've just listed them all. Let me ask you this. Has there been any interveners

00:14:49.640 applying to join your case as a friend of the court? As in, if there's an important constitutional

00:14:55.660 battle, often other groups that feel like they have a stake in it will ask the judge if they can make

00:15:00.760 a submission. Your case cries out for interveners for freedom. Can you tell me, are there any

00:15:07.400 interveners in your case? I hate to even ask if the Canadian civil liberties association is one of

00:15:14.120 them? No, there's not. And they are not. And obviously one would expect when you look at some of the

00:15:22.340 other challenges going on, you know, whether it's the judicial review applications in federal court

00:15:28.020 against the invocation of the emergencies act, you know, a number of provinces, Alberta and Saskatchewan,

00:15:33.520 for example, initiated or intervened in those. It's remarkable. And I just, I wonder, you know,

00:15:41.620 as to why the most obvious one to me, I mean, the rights of Canadians who've been deprived from

00:15:49.920 traveling across the country to be at the side of a dying loved one or to care from, for a parent or

00:15:58.440 a loved one who's recovering from surgery or cancer treatment, to be at funerals and weddings and other

00:16:05.200 celebratory events that are part of living a fulsome life. Those are human rights too. And they're not

00:16:13.160 just charter rights. Our charter is supposed to be reflective of human rights. And it seems like the

00:16:18.780 left has hijacked the human rights sphere for more abstract identity politics. And, but, you know,

00:16:29.180 thank goodness for the Democracy Fund and the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms and Canadians

00:16:33.600 like the Honourable Brian Peckford and the other applicants that we represent and other lawyers are

00:16:39.100 representing. There's four cases that have been brought together that are being heard together

00:16:42.940 tomorrow. And we all have the same goal, which is to have the court rule that, that depriving Canadians

00:16:51.040 of these rights was a gross abuse of charter rights. It's interesting. We, we have this viral hashtag

00:16:59.120 going, Ezra, that I'm sure you're well, I know you're well aware, we all are about Trudeau must go. I've

00:17:05.820 been struck by the number of tweets under that hashtag, by people talking about their torment,

00:17:13.900 their, the harm they felt, the emotional disturbance they feel from not having to been able to go to

00:17:21.920 family, loved ones, funerals, and being able to go and care for and be at the bedside of a dying

00:17:28.240 loved one. It just, people aren't, you know, that's why they're, they post it. That's why they'll never

00:17:33.460 forget. So we need to make sure the charter is upheld and that the court rules that this was a

00:17:39.160 breach. And that's what we intend to do tomorrow to allow us to go to the full trial of the case

00:17:46.740 scheduled for October 31st. You know, most of the lockdowns in Canada were administered by the

00:17:53.320 provinces and some by cities. The federal government didn't have a lot of jurisdiction over our day-to-day

00:17:59.020 lives other than airlines, a very important one, and border issues, a very important one. And of

00:18:04.120 course, people who work for the government directly. Um, I say that because the airlines,

00:18:10.940 that industry is one of the most heavily regulated industries in Canada. I mean, other than,

00:18:16.060 I suppose, banks and tobacco companies, the airlines are every move they make. And if they get off

00:18:22.720 side with the government, they could be punished so capriciously. I mean, we've seen it before.

00:18:28.260 The lockdown imposed, the rules imposed by the feds would have killed the airlines if the government

00:18:36.060 wasn't there to sort of bail them out. So I can understand why the airlines were absolutely

00:18:40.580 submissive to the government, because the government has the power of life or death over them in a way

00:18:45.700 that they do over so few other industries. We don't even, like, thank God Trudeau doesn't have the

00:18:52.120 control over most industries the way he does over airlines. So I, I think I know the answer to my

00:18:58.520 next. So I, that doesn't excuse them participating, uh, so, so lustily, for example, in vaccine mandates

00:19:06.080 for their staff, but it might not excuse it, but it explains it. But I, I wonder if anyone put aside

00:19:13.460 the airlines themselves, has anyone from the tourism industry, from the convention industry,

00:19:19.800 from cross-border travel, I don't know, has anyone in the industry expressed opposition

00:19:27.560 to these rules, expressed support for your lawsuit? I mean, surely the airlines, if they were speaking

00:19:34.760 in secret, so Trudeau couldn't hear, surely they would say they, they hated being the most brutally

00:19:42.200 punished industry. Did, have you had any feedback from, from the airlines even privately?

00:19:48.320 No. And, you know, it's interesting when, when I was approached in December to lead the, the legal

00:19:57.920 team for the justice center on this, and I commend my, my other lawyers that have worked with me, they're

00:20:03.200 phenomenal. Um, it was a controversial move. I mean, there's a big shift occurring right now. We're

00:20:09.640 seeing it most manifestly in the last 72 hours with this hashtag Trudeau must go movement of people

00:20:15.300 standing forward. It was, uh, it was a risky move for me to stand up and say, yeah, I'll be the face

00:20:21.360 of this and I'm going to take this on. So I think the industry groups and all the, the tourism industry

00:20:26.740 groups had their head down and didn't were afraid to stick their head out of the trench and, and join the

00:20:31.360 battle. Um, because obviously we know now that they are raising concerns and they're being very vocal

00:20:37.900 about the harm, you know, the businesses at Niagara Falls and other, uh, tourist destinations in close

00:20:43.740 proximity to the border are hurting badly. That's widely known. Uh, they're, they're pressuring their

00:20:48.860 politicians on both sides of the border and then resort towns like Banff and Jasper close to my home

00:20:54.220 in Alberta are hurting badly because, uh, Europeans and other travelers, they don't want to do the

00:20:59.880 arrive camp. They don't want to quarantine. They it's ridiculous. The evidence was so clear in the

00:21:06.760 cross-examination phases when we were going after the witnesses, uh, for the federal government that

00:21:11.400 they openly admitted that these were the measures, uh, to require vaccination for travel in Canada,

00:21:18.180 not just for Canadians, but for tourists and others, uh, and workers coming into our country were

00:21:23.680 the most restrictive than any other G7 country. Other developed world countries in the world,

00:21:31.460 similar to Canada did not at any time take these measures. We're unique, just like right now,

00:21:38.520 for those who've traveled, discovered they had to put a mask on as soon as they entered Canadian

00:21:42.560 airspace. Cause you know, it's about the science, right? Like the virus knows that you've crossed a

00:21:47.260 geopolitical boundary, really smart virus. Uh, I'm being sarcastic, obviously. So no,

00:21:53.700 those groups didn't come forward. I think they're vocal now because we're in a different time. I

00:21:57.660 think the tide's turning and people are more comfortable speaking up, but they certainly

00:22:01.460 weren't in the early days. Yeah. I should point out that WestJet's new CEO, who's only been on the

00:22:07.440 job less than a year, I think seems to have a courage to him. And I think it's because he comes

00:22:11.800 from abroad. He's not a Canadian. He hasn't been taught the passive obedient Canadian corporate

00:22:16.560 mindset. I see him tweeting about, he wants to end the mask rule. Like he's focused on masks.

00:22:22.360 And again, there's a guy listening to his customers as opposed to listening just to Trudeau. I'm,

00:22:27.240 I'm surprised he hasn't been ordered to shut up by his board who, who should properly be terrified

00:22:31.940 by the government. But let me, let me come back to the point you've made twice now. You have done

00:22:37.460 so much preliminary, preliminary work, uh, examining under oath, the government witnesses,

00:22:45.520 the people who built this flight ban. You say you cross-examine 16 government witnesses.

00:22:54.040 Can you tell for our viewers? I mean, that's all, and you mentioned the 15,000 pages of records.

00:23:00.440 What were some of the most interesting or revealing or damning admissions that you were able to extract

00:23:07.240 from these government witnesses? Because I don't think that's been widely covered. I think Rupa

00:23:13.680 Subramania, uh, uh, covered some of them and she's an excellent independent reporter, but I, I don't think

00:23:19.960 that the media party, as I called them, has been that interested in this lawsuit. You'd think a former

00:23:26.120 premier, the last surviving signer of the constitution, you'd think every word Brian Peckford would say

00:23:31.420 would be on the front page of the news, but because he's a contrarian, they pretend he doesn't exist.

00:23:35.920 Tell me some of the most interesting admissions by the government witnesses.

00:23:42.400 Well, one would be a Dr. Larenko, who is the most senior official at Health Canada.

00:23:48.280 Paragraph five of her affidavit reads that I am the government official who approved

00:23:53.740 the COVID vaccines. So she's the equivalent of the head of the FDA. And what, what she,

00:24:03.760 what I had to do to get her to confirm that the vaccine that has been applied and injected into

00:24:12.360 many millions of Canadians is an experimental drug is I first asked her to go over the stages of

00:24:21.620 testing before she would approve, for example, the shingles vaccine. And I walked her through all the

00:24:28.860 steps. And at the end, she gets to the point where, and did have to go through a phase three trial on

00:24:35.220 humans before you approved it for general use in the general population. Yes. Did the same thing for

00:24:41.140 the pneumonia vaccine. I did the same thing for every current modern vaccine I could think of.

00:24:46.920 And then I did the same steps with her for the COVID vaccine. And when I got to phase three trial

00:24:54.380 question, she said, no. So the phase three trial was never done. And it's actually happening right now

00:25:02.900 on millions of Canadians across this country that have been double or triple or quadruple vax.

00:25:08.940 Um, but could you imagine agreeing to be part of a phase three trial for the pneumonia vaccine?

00:25:17.200 A phase three trial for those who don't know, that's basically when you move from

00:25:21.160 experiments on animals, I guess, to experiments on people. Is that what you mean by a phase three trial?

00:25:26.640 That's right. So, so the, the, the phase two and the phase three are on humans, on people.

00:25:31.400 And, but could you imagine volunteering for that? They'd sit you down and they'd explain to you,

00:25:35.380 this is experimental. You're, you're going to be a subject in our phase three trial.

00:25:38.940 Um, does anybody who went and got the vaccine recall being sat down and told that they were

00:25:43.920 about to be come a subject in a phase three trial? That's why in our pleadings, in our court documents,

00:25:48.780 we refer to it as experimental because Dr. Larenko confirmed under oath that no phase three was

00:25:54.820 completed on the COVID vaccines before the vaccine was made available for general use. You know what

00:26:01.340 she says is she says, but, oh, we changed the approval process. We create, they call it the new

00:26:07.320 pathway approach, which doesn't have the phase three. So the other thing that was really remarkable

00:26:14.020 was, um, Dr. Waddell, who was the chief epidemiologist for the, uh, public health agency

00:26:22.560 of Canada. When I noticed in the written recommendations in their evidence, their exhibits that

00:26:29.340 to transport Canada, that there was no recommendation for vaccinating air travelers as a mitigation

00:26:37.280 strategy. So I'm sitting there going, could this be right? Is it the case that the public health

00:26:43.620 agency of Canada did fact, did in fact not even recommend vaccination of air travelers as a

00:26:50.620 mitigation strategy? So I put it to her under cross-examination. Uh, and, and she agreed.

00:26:56.340 I said that, you know, the truth is madam or doctor rather that, that you did not recommend

00:27:01.800 vaccination of air travelers as a mitigation strategy for COVID. Correct. And she said, yes.

00:27:07.680 And she went on to add that, that basically I can't remember precise words, but the gist of it

00:27:13.260 transcripts are available publicly was that the scientific evidence didn't support it. Um, there was

00:27:19.300 a number of other shocking moments in the testimony. I, one last one I'll give to make it three

00:27:25.520 is, uh, Ms. Little, uh, who is the lead of the COVID recovery team at Transport Canada,

00:27:32.600 where she included a PowerPoint slide, uh, in exhibit E to her affidavit page, slide 15,

00:27:40.380 just reviewing that. Um, and it clearly states that they deliberately decided to deprive Canadians

00:27:48.680 of their ability to go care for loved ones, um, provide care, um, compassionate travel. It was a

00:27:56.680 conscious decision to, to, um, exclude as an exception. So not create an exception for compassionate

00:28:05.700 travel. So they, they made a decision and I cross-examined her on this under oath that they

00:28:11.380 contemplated the harm that would be caused to thousands, if not more of Canadians by depriving

00:28:18.000 them from being at the bedside of a dying loved one or going to funerals, weddings, et cetera.

00:28:23.220 And that was, that's abhorrent. And I've said that untruth or while I was cross-examined that I find

00:28:29.420 that deeply offensive, that, that our government officials knowingly made that decision. And that

00:28:35.260 was part of the briefing document that went to the minister and the assistant deputy ministers.

00:28:40.720 I can't recall if it went to the prime minister's office or not, but I do recall with certainty

00:28:44.540 that she testified that this briefing document where this was written was given to the minister

00:28:49.920 and form part of the decision. So those are some three highlights.

00:28:53.980 Well, I think that rings true. Trudeau has such a vengefulness in anyone who dared to remain

00:29:00.400 unvaccinated, dared to ignore him ought to be punished. He has, there's a punitive approach to him. He,

00:29:05.220 he, uh, he takes these things personally and he knows that if you're unvaccinated,

00:29:10.380 the likelihood of you voting for him is near zero. So what does he care if he denies you a last

00:29:18.400 moment with a dying loved one that he knows he's not going to hurt his people? And I think, I think

00:29:25.060 he, he has a sociopathic approach. That is not a bug. That is a feature. That is not an accident.

00:29:30.860 That is on purpose. I'm sure of it. Uh, the fact that Canada alone has these rules in the whole world

00:29:37.440 is bizarre. Let me ask you about the hearing tomorrow. The federal government is applying

00:29:42.200 to the federal court to have a judge throw this out as being moot. They're saying, strike this

00:29:46.780 claim out. It's not alive anymore. Even though, as you say, it's only been quote suspended, not

00:29:52.100 deleted. And the government certainly can't be trusted not to bring it in again. Um, do we know

00:29:59.100 who the judge is who's hearing it? Let me start that way. Is it, it's a single judge on the federal

00:30:04.200 court? Is that right? And, and can you tell us who that judge is? If you know, um, there's been

00:30:11.240 some indication as to who it might be. It's always been my practice. Uh, maybe I'm unusual this way

00:30:18.260 to not focus on that at all. What I focus on is when I get into that courtroom, I look that judge in

00:30:24.040 the eye and I talk to them. That's what I'll do tomorrow. I don't care. You know, we'll get the

00:30:30.680 judge. We'll get, I suspect it'll be a very senior judge, even the publicity and the political

00:30:35.940 significance of this case, but whoever it is, I will do the best that I can as, as a litigator

00:30:43.080 to reach into their soul and to their legal mind and try and get those two things to meld together

00:30:51.080 for the right result. I'm sure you will. I'm just reminded that an earlier constitutional challenge

00:30:56.340 before the federal court had to deal with these airport quarantine hotels. I don't know if you

00:31:02.360 remember, but a while back when you landed, you had to go to a hotel at your own expense for up to

00:31:09.140 three days. And they were thousands of dollars. Bizarrely. We had actually one of our former

00:31:14.560 reporters. Um, he came back to Canada. He was forced to go to the hotel quarantine. He counted,

00:31:20.900 he had 14 interactions with different people in the hotel quarantine as opposed to just getting in

00:31:27.360 his car and driving home by himself. Uh, so there was, there was some interesting, uh, litigants, 0.98

00:31:33.080 including our former reporter and the judge, if I recall, who heard it was no one less than the chief

00:31:38.460 judge of the federal court. So they put the absolute top dog on it. And I thought, okay,

00:31:44.640 they're taking it very seriously. Well, yeah. Or they were putting the most political guy on it

00:31:48.940 because not only did he rule that there was, uh, he, not only did he rule that this was fine,

00:31:56.220 this was legal. He said it didn't even amount to a charter breach that could be justified. As you

00:32:02.040 know, in Canada, there's sort of a two-step, was your right infringed to begin with? And if it was,

00:32:08.160 is that demonstrably justifiable in a free and democratic society? The cases almost always turn

00:32:14.840 on that second part. Cause yes, the government did something to you, but can they explain it as

00:32:19.280 reasonable or proportional? This chief judge said, no, no, no, you weren't even detained.

00:32:25.840 You were not even detained because it was only three days and it was in a hotel. And I, I'm stunned

00:32:32.840 by that decision. And I think that's under appeal right now, but, and I'm not asking you to badmouth any

00:32:39.340 judge, but I'm just saying the more senior, the judge, the more experienced, but also in that case,

00:32:44.900 the more political, I, I am still, every time I think of that ruling that the federal court said

00:32:50.740 is not, you are not detained, even if you were ordered to go to a detention. I, I think, as you

00:32:57.520 say, the court's reputation has taken a bruising over the last two years, as well as any other,

00:33:02.520 you don't have to respond to that. Cause I know you want to be.

00:33:04.480 Well, let me, let me, let me though, please. Um, I'll tell you this in the last several weeks,

00:33:12.700 actually number of many months, uh, I, the first time I had to wear a mask, we all know how useless

00:33:20.980 they are and it's theater. That's what the science is. We're not being, uh, fit tested with an

00:33:29.460 occupational health and safety and special regulatory regulator mask. And I've had that done

00:33:34.220 in different industrial contexts. That's not what's happening. We got these stupid things on

00:33:38.960 our face that we move around and we can take down to eat and stuff. Well, I've had to wear one to fly 0.99

00:33:45.140 to Ottawa. Well, guess where else I'm going to have to wear one tomorrow in the courthouse, you know,

00:33:52.060 and that doesn't make me feel that I'm going into an impartial open-minded environment.

00:33:58.040 Yeah. When I'll say one other thing carefully and, but clearly is when the chief justice of our federal

00:34:07.660 court of appeal was asked to reveal the vaccination status of the judges on his bench and his staff,

00:34:15.200 he declined because he said that was personal private health information. The chief judge,

00:34:23.040 justice of the federal court and the chief justice of our Supreme court of Canada, both volunteered

00:34:29.780 that personal private information about health status of their judges and staff. I think the chief

00:34:36.560 justice of the federal court of appeal got it right in law and policy to not reveal that personal

00:34:44.420 information. So contextually, I have a concern that COVID has, and governmental responses to it,

00:34:52.900 has so polarized our society that it has created some influence on the judiciary. And, but I keep

00:35:01.720 going into it with optimism and good faith that we're going to get a fair and objective hearing

00:35:06.720 and we're doing everything we can myself and other lawyers that will be arguing tomorrow on behalf of

00:35:12.220 Canadians to, to try and remedy this horrific wrong that so many millions of Canadians have suffered and

00:35:18.440 are fearful of experiencing again at the whim of the prime minister and his minister of transportation.

00:35:25.260 Well, we'll be live tweeting that case as we often live tweet important cases. I think Sheila Gunn-Reed

00:35:31.500 will be our reporter who specializes in that. So you can follow that here. Also, I understand that it'll be

00:35:37.640 available on a video link, but I, I hear that the court we're talking about is the court neutral,

00:35:43.840 that the court has bolted the doors. Now you correct me if I misunderstood, misheard this or

00:35:50.560 misunderstood. Is it a fact that the courts in Ottawa, which normally are open to the public,

00:35:55.400 including, you know, the media and, and just interested persons, that they are bolting the

00:36:00.560 doors and not allowing people in? Did I hear that incorrectly?

00:36:03.640 No, you didn't. I mean, I don't know if they're bolting the doors, but they'll, you know, they're

00:36:09.700 going to, we received an email from a senior clerk of the court last week, indicating that due to the

00:36:17.400 enormous amount of interest in this case, they're anticipating a sizable number of Canadians to be

00:36:26.020 outside the courthouse. And they were concerned about accommodating all those people inside the

00:36:30.820 courthouse in part, because they still have this social distance inside the courthouse. So we've

00:36:38.560 been advised that only ourselves as lawyers and a specific list of clients will be allowed into the

00:36:45.120 courtroom and everybody else will have to stay outside. So it's unprecedented as far as I'm aware

00:36:51.600 in that respect as well. So I get the logic. This is perfect COVID logic because so many people want

00:36:59.180 to come in, no one can come in because, you know, I mean, that, that's the, that, that scares me a

00:37:05.580 little bit. Well, we'll, uh, we'll be watching with great interest. Do you know how many hours have been

00:37:11.040 set aside for this? And, and I imagine that the court will have to rule on it fairly soon because

00:37:17.580 this matter was set down for trial next month, if I'm not mistaken. So obviously they'll have to let

00:37:23.260 everybody know within a month. Um, what's your thinking about how long this mootness hearing

00:37:28.680 will go and when you'll get the judge's response. It's too early to guess, but what do you think it

00:37:33.580 might be? Well, we're, we're, we're starting at nine 30 and the attorney general's lawyers will go

00:37:39.740 first followed by myself and, and, and counsel for the other applicants. There's four counsel in total

00:37:46.600 four, four pardons. Um, I'm optimistic we will complete the hearing tomorrow. You know, we, we,

00:37:52.440 we might run over a bit, you know, past the normal closing of the court at four 30 and push into five

00:37:58.440 or maybe six, but I'm optimistic that we will complete the hearing tomorrow. Um, and then I would

00:38:04.520 hope that we would get a decision, uh, sometime in the next, uh, two weeks or so, um, as to whether

00:38:12.520 we're not, we're going ahead. And, and just to really emphasize, I mean, everything is done as

00:38:18.920 well, all the evidence gathering, all of the pleadings, all of our legal factums are written,

00:38:24.460 uh, our books of authority have been filed and exchanged. The only thing left to do on this case,

00:38:31.880 I mean, like getting a new house built or a new office built. The only thing to do is the walkthrough,

00:38:36.980 like, uh, is to go to court and argue about the evidence that's before the oral phase. So, uh,

00:38:44.140 hopefully the court will make an expeditious decision in the next week or so, uh, on the

00:38:50.000 application tomorrow. And hopefully we'll reject the efforts by the federal government to block

00:38:54.780 Canadians from having the federal court rule on their charter. Yeah. You know, I was just thinking

00:38:59.640 of, uh, what a uniform, um, local president said when, um, he was fired for dissenting about,

00:39:08.320 uh, the entire labor union, basically labor movement, selling out its membership and absolutely

00:39:14.200 colluding with its employers in imposing vaccine requirements that were not in the collective

00:39:19.980 agreements. And, and I remember he ended his video by saying, if the union and the company

00:39:25.620 are saying the same thing, one of them is not needed. And he was condemning uniform for selling

00:39:32.260 out its members. You would think that if you, you know, solidarity forever, collective bargaining,

00:39:37.700 but the government and the, and the company say, we want to, a vaccine. You just, you don't even

00:39:42.580 bargain. You just say, okay. And I, and I'm thinking of that same thing with the separation of the

00:39:48.560 branches of government. We have the legislature, which has really not been part of this at all.

00:39:54.300 They've been marginalized. It was the executive, like you say, some period. So first branch of

00:39:59.880 government, the legislative, not even involved. The second branch of government, you know, the

00:40:05.780 cabinet and their bureaucrats imposes ban. So now we're looking to the third branch of government,

00:40:11.860 the judiciary to review it. And if they choose to punt, if they choose to dodge their responsibility

00:40:18.960 and say, yeah, no, we don't need to hear this because they said they're suspending it. So it

00:40:24.720 probably won't come back. You've done all that work. Thanks for that. But we're not going to bother

00:40:28.760 hearing it. It reminds me of what that uniform leader said. If you got three branches of government

00:40:34.240 and one of them is useless and then the other one's useless, what's even the point? So if the court

00:40:38.480 believes that it is a branch of government, if it believes it's a check and balance on,

00:40:42.400 on the powers that be, it ought to prove it. And if it ducks its duty here, I think that it will erode

00:40:50.360 a lot of what remains of its fading credibility. I think you're exactly right. The brand of the

00:40:55.640 courts is damaged. Keith Wilson, QC, lawyer for Brian Peckford with the Justice Center for

00:41:02.000 Constitutional Freedoms. You guys are doing great work. Give me one last word. Give me something more

00:41:05.840 hopeful than my despondent review of the courts these past two and a half. Give me something

00:41:11.020 positive to think about as we head into this hearing tomorrow. Well, two-legged stools fall over. 1.00

00:41:18.800 That's not optimistic. That's reality. I think this is an opportunity for, you know, Canadians. And,

00:41:26.620 you know, why am I putting so much effort into this? I have confidence in a system that has that

00:41:32.260 separation of powers. That's the one that served us best when you look at the comparative examples 0.97

00:41:37.280 of governmental design around the world through our modern history. And so, I'm optimistic that the

00:41:45.580 tide is turning. Canadians are confident in coming forward and speaking their truth. And I am optimistic

00:41:52.920 that we will be successful and that the court will decide to take this to the final level.

00:41:59.220 And regardless of the precision of their outcome, there will be elements of the decision win or lose

00:42:06.420 that will help illuminate the boundaries between government powers to interfere in people's freedoms

00:42:13.500 in their lives. So, I think there's reason for hope. There's a pathway that can work. And I'm going to

00:42:22.860 continue along with others like the Democracy Fund and the Justice Center, Constitutional Freedoms,

00:42:27.100 and the amazing number of lawyers who've all come forward to try and restore everybody's hope and

00:42:33.100 faith in our systems. Well, I hope you're successful. We'll be watching, we'll be live tweeting, and we'll

00:42:38.660 report on the results. Keith Wilson, KC, King's Council. Great to spend some time with you and good luck

00:42:46.180 tomorrow. Thank you very much. Thank you. Stay with us. My final thoughts are next.

00:42:51.240 Hey, welcome back. I got some letters here. OREXX said, paid campaign, fringe minority,

00:43:07.660 could Trudeau and butts be more obtuse? You know, it's funny because, I mean, they're always on the

00:43:12.620 attack. They're perpetual campaigners. But part of me thinks sometimes they actually are so insulated.

00:43:17.800 They really don't know anyone who has a different point of view than them because they operate in

00:43:22.640 the circles of lobbyists and bureaucrats and politicians in the media party. If they see

00:43:27.100 someone dissenting, if they see someone that is not in love with Trudeau, they think that makes no

00:43:31.700 sense. That can only be explained that they are some foreign Putin operative. They literally cannot

00:43:37.220 comprehend a world when people don't see Trudeau as the Sun King. Will P says,

00:43:43.560 the cop, Steve Bell, has drank the Kool-Aid.

00:43:49.820 You're talking about the police chief in Ottawa who basically enforced martial law as brutally as,

00:43:57.460 I don't know, Eastern European countries do, and then threatened peaceful protesters. Not just that,

00:44:04.160 threatened anyone who dared to donate to the truckers, threatened to hunt them down. He should

00:44:09.120 have been fired that day. But of course, that's where policing is in Canada now.

00:44:14.500 Queen Marifa says,

00:44:16.380 the very moment that I heard Elon Musk was going to buy Twitter, I instinctively said,

00:44:20.200 I don't think he will, which leads me to believe this is almost like a publicity stunt for both of

00:44:24.640 them. I don't know, but I do know that the truth is stranger than fiction, and all the world is truly

00:44:29.140 a stage. I think you're right. I think Elon Musk is a bit of an actor on that stage. He likes being

00:44:35.120 dramatic. He likes being a little bit quirky, and I'm glad he is, frankly. I think he did want Twitter,

00:44:42.140 but I think he also wanted a better deal than maybe he offered. And I think the fact that it's

00:44:48.580 overrun by bots, as they say, by fake accounts, I think that is a factor. I think that Twitter,

00:44:54.980 its primary value is not for freedom of information, but for control of information.

00:45:00.220 Whoever controls Twitter can throttle ideas they don't like and boost those that they do.

00:45:06.220 I think its chief value is, frankly, to people like the CIA or the Pentagon.

00:45:12.140 Their use of it as an information tool far outweighs its value to advertisers. I don't know

00:45:18.900 which side Elon Musk would have been on that, frankly. I think he's freedom-oriented in the West,

00:45:23.680 but of course, he's heavily invested in China. He's a complicated man, and Twitter's a complicated

00:45:28.280 problem. That's our show for today. I hope you enjoyed the feature interview with Keith Wilson.

00:45:32.560 He'll be in court tomorrow. We'll be live blogging that, live tweeting that. Our chief reporter,

00:45:37.480 Sheila Gunn-Reed. Until then, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters,

00:45:41.420 to you at home, good night, and keep fighting for freedom.

00:45:44.280 Bonjour tout le monde. Tabitha Peters ici pour Rebel News.

00:45:48.380 Hi, everyone. Tabitha Peters here for Rebel News. On Saturday, September 17th,

00:45:53.400 I attended a nationwide rally in Toronto, in Queen's Park. Leader of the People's Party,

00:45:59.280 Maxime Barnier, was there. He gave a speech. He spoke to all of his supporters.

00:46:03.360 He took pictures, and we were able to interview him. Hear what he has to say on the Arrive Can

00:46:08.880 app, Monsieur Pierre Paulievre, and what the future holds for the People's Party of Canada.

00:46:14.460 Question, but what brings you here today amongst the people, Toronto, the rally, everything?

00:46:18.880 Yeah, my goal today, to be here. Why I'm here today is very simple. I wanted to thank

00:46:25.060 all these freedom fighters across the country and people here in Toronto that did the fight

00:46:30.800 when it was very difficult, when they were calling us names and, you know, racist, xenophobe,

00:46:38.760 and selfish, only because we were speaking about our values and more freedom and less government

00:46:46.460 in our life. So we did that the last two years. And now we are winning that battle. And we were

00:46:51.800 able to change the public opinion. Yes, maybe we were a tiny minority two years ago, but now I believe

00:46:58.880 that we are a majority. And that's why I believe we won't have any mandates this fall or this summer,

00:47:05.180 because these traditional politicians are doing politics not based on convictions, but on the polling

00:47:11.580 and focus group. And they're going to see that the majority of Canadians are fed up with that.

00:47:16.320 So I wanted to be here and tell them, you know, thank you. But we need to fight. We need to fight

00:47:23.560 again. There's still the Arrive Canada apps. And we cannot take, we know that right now, we cannot take

00:47:29.920 our freedom for granted in this country anymore. And I want to tell them that I will always be there.

00:47:35.640 I was there in the beginning of that pandemic. And, you know, I'm fighting for freedom, personal

00:47:43.620 responsibility, respect and fairness. And that's the BBC. And I believe that, you know, the next

00:47:50.060 election, we will be ready and we'll increase our number of votes. And we will have some candidates

00:47:58.100 that will be elected in parliament. And we will be able to have that freedom revolution in parliament.

00:48:03.920 The mainstream media and the liberals and these establishment politicians are telling us,

00:48:14.800 just move on. Just move on. We won't move on until we finish that fight, until we will

00:48:25.840 finish that fight, until we finish that fight. You mentioned the Arrive Canada app. What is your

00:48:33.760 comment with that still ongoing in airports in Canada?

00:48:36.720 Don't, don't, don't do it. Don't download that apps. We don't know what the federal government

00:48:41.680 is going with your personal information. And, and I know that they can give you a tickets

00:48:47.180 about that. But, you know, you must fight that. Actually, I received for maybe $15,000 of tickets

00:48:54.360 the last two years. So, and I didn't pay that. I'm fighting, I'm fighting in the court. And

00:48:59.800 actually next week, September 21st, I'll be in the court in Ottawa with Brian Petford, because,

00:49:07.480 you know, we are challenging the government. We understand that here in Canada, we have the

00:49:13.160 constitutional right to be able to travel freely across our country, being vaccinated or not. And

00:49:19.320 we are fighting for every Canadian on that. It's, it's crazy. We know now we have the data, we have

00:49:41.000 the statistics and we know that that virus is not deadly for the huge majority of Canadians. If you're

00:49:48.120 under 60 years old, without any comorbidity, there's no risk. Actually, it's more risky to take the

00:49:53.800 vaccine than COVID-19. So let's stop all that. But I believe that up to now, we did very well,

00:50:01.480 we the freedom fighters and everybody that were there in the beginning and fighting and are still

00:50:09.480 here. I want to thank them because of them, we were able to shift the public opinion, like I said.

00:50:14.360 So the Quebec government has to vaccinate the Quebecers if they're ready for the next shot. 0.93

00:50:23.720 No. And 69% of them said no thanks.

00:50:32.920 What is your opinion on Monsieur Pierre Polievre now winning the Conservative leadership party?

00:50:38.200 Yeah, Pierre Polievre spoke like a Conservative during the Conservative leadership. Actually, if you want to be the

00:50:43.560 leader of the Conservative party, you need to speak like a Conservative, like O'Toole did. O'Toole said,

00:50:48.920 you know, I'm a true blue and he was elected. And I did it also in 2017 when I was running for them.

00:50:55.720 And I had 49% of the vote, but I can tell you that was the best decision in my political life

00:51:01.800 to create the PPC. And I want to thank everybody

00:51:04.280 that are supporting us. But that being said, Poliev spoke like a Conservative. He was able to be elected.

00:51:11.640 But the question is, Poliev is a career politician. He was elected the first time at 25 years old.

00:51:17.720 And now he's 42 years old. And he's an opportunist politician. He was not with us when we needed him,

00:51:23.880 when we needed the Conservative to be with us in that fight for our freedoms in May 20, in March or

00:51:30.040 May 2020, because it was not popular. So now he's speaking about freedom because we did the job,

00:51:37.160 all the freedom fighters across the country, and we were able to influence Canadians and to shift the

00:51:43.080 public opinion on our side. So Poliev is speaking about that. I'm very happy that he's speaking about

00:51:48.440 freedom, good for him, but we cannot trust him. And that's why the People's Party is there and we

00:51:54.760 will keep him honest. And so I believe that he will do like O'Toole, he will go to the left,

00:52:02.760 because there's more seat here in the GTA than in all Alberta. And he will go to the left. And what

00:52:08.440 he's doing for, for example, equalization formula? Nothing. He's not speaking about that. But that's why

00:52:15.720 people out West are frustrated. And, you know, we need to have a solution for that. And our solution

00:52:22.760 is to change equalization formula to be less generous. And the formula must be fair for everybody.

00:52:28.680 That's why we have Western alienation in Alberta, Saskatchewan and BC. But Poliev is not speaking

00:52:35.240 about that because it's not popular. So we cannot trust him on the real issues that are important for

00:52:40.200 the future of this country. Like the Paris Accord is in favor of the Paris Accord. Yes,

00:52:45.800 he won't impose a carbon tax, but he will impose more regulations on businesses. That would be a cost

00:52:50.920 for us. The question is not the carbon tax. The question is the Paris Accord. We must withdraw

00:52:57.480 from that accord. Poliev won't do that. So I can go on mass immigration. He's not speaking about that.

00:53:03.720 He's speaking about the housing challengers that we have. The price of the prices of houses is going

00:53:10.360 up. Yes, I understand that. But that being said, he wants to impose the he wants to impose to your

00:53:18.840 municipalities how to deal with it. He wants to interfere in provincial and municipal jurisdiction.

00:53:28.760 Life is affordable. We'll cap spending and cut waste to reverse inflationary deficits

00:53:33.640 and taxes. That includes axing new taxes on your paycheck, gas, heat and other essentials.

00:53:40.360 The cause of the problem is immigration. But he won't speak about that. It's mathematical.

00:53:45.160 We have too many people that are coming here. And so they want to have a house. And I understand that.

00:53:49.720 So prices of houses is going up. The prices is going up here downtown Toronto, in Montreal and in Vancouver,

00:53:56.840 because 40% of our immigrants are going to Montreal Toronto and in Vancouver. And after that, people are

00:54:04.440 leaving here Toronto and Montreal and they're going to other cities and prices of houses are going up in

00:54:11.240 these other cities also across the country. So the solution to that is to have sustainable immigration.

00:54:17.560 Poliev won't speak about that. So we'll see what will happen. But you can always count on us to speak

00:54:24.520 about our values. And we have the right vision for this country to be freer and more prosperous.

00:54:31.240 Let's keep fighting. Let's keep fighting together. And yes, the truth will always win.

00:54:40.200 We will win safe, strong and free. Freedom, freedom, freedom.

00:54:47.880 Last question. What's the future for the People's Party?

00:54:51.000 The future, you know, I'm very pleased what we did up to now. It took 15 years for the Green Party to

00:54:55.960 have more than 1% of the vote. And after one year, we had 1.6% of the vote. And after 35 years,

00:55:02.520 the Green Party had 2% of the vote. And for us, after only 40 years, we had 5%. So what is the future?

00:55:08.920 We will grow. We are showing to these establishment politicians when we're speaking about our values

00:55:15.000 openly with passion and conviction. Yes, you can grow your support. And that's what we're doing.

00:55:20.520 From 0% when we created the party, 1.6% in 2019, 5% at the last election. I don't know what

00:55:27.560 will happen in the next one, but I can tell you we will grow. And I believe that we will have real

00:55:32.440 freedom fighters in Parliament. Thank you very much. That's all.

Rebel News Podcast - September 21, 2022

EZRA LEVANT ｜ Interview with Keith Wilson, the lawyer going to federal court to fight Trudeau's suspended ban on unvaccinated travellers

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