Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ Poilievre's support for freedom propelled his political stardom

00:00:00.140 Hello, my friends, a feature interview with Andrew Lawton, our friend from True North.

00:00:04.900 He's written a new book called Pierre Polyev, A Political Life, and it is a bestseller.

00:00:10.880 We're going to spend the whole course of the show going through it.

00:00:13.640 You don't want to miss it, but let me invite you to become a subscriber to Rebel News Plus.

00:00:17.420 That's the video version of this podcast.

00:00:19.800 It's eight bucks a month, which might not sound like a lot of money to you, but it really

00:00:23.040 adds up for us because, as you know, we don't take a dime from Trudeau, and it shows.

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00:00:30.800 All right, here's my interview with Andrew Lawton.

00:00:37.780 You're listening to our latest podcast.

00:00:49.300 Tonight, a feature interview with Andrew Lawton about his best-selling book about Pierre Polyev.

00:00:55.240 It's June 19th, and this is The Ezra of Net Show.

00:00:58.300 We've got it for freedom!

00:01:00.000 Shame on you, you censorious bug!

00:01:04.340 You know, they say history is written by the winners.

00:01:16.440 That's why the good guys win all the battles, because the bad guys aren't left there to tell

00:01:21.220 their own story.

00:01:22.320 One of the things that frustrates me as a Canadian, and this has been the case for decades,

00:01:25.720 is that the stories of our conservative or freedom-oriented heroes were written by their

00:01:33.140 opponents.

00:01:34.060 So, when Stephen Harper was the prime minister, there was an orgy of attack books about him.

00:01:40.060 How dare conservatives have a champion?

00:01:42.480 He must have his name blackened.

00:01:44.060 And I just think it's the same in comedy, the same in filmmaking, the same in TV shows.

00:01:50.400 For some reason, those cultural industries are overwhelmingly left-wing or, at best, liberal,

00:01:57.900 very few conservatives in that space.

00:02:00.140 And so, when someone from our side—and by our side, I don't mean a partisan conservative.

00:02:07.560 I mean someone who just cares about freedom, cares about ordinary folks, not just the incumbent

00:02:13.080 elites—when someone from our side actually writes a book about, for example, Pierre Polyev,

00:02:20.100 the leader of the Conservative Party, and the likely next prime minister, I think it behooves

00:02:25.340 us to say, this is a miracle, it's a unicorn, we have to support it, because when has that

00:02:33.440 ever happened?

00:02:34.320 And so, you may know that I am introducing our favorite guy, author, journalist, my friend

00:02:41.480 Andrew Lawton, because he just wrote a book called Pierre Polyev, A Political Life, and

00:02:47.760 it's a bestseller.

00:02:48.820 Andrew Lawton, great to see you again.

00:02:50.300 Thank you.

00:02:50.740 Thanks for having me.

00:02:51.980 You're a good writer.

00:02:52.720 You're a good journalist.

00:02:53.580 You're a professional.

00:02:54.360 It's a good book on its own merits.

00:02:56.540 But I want to tell you the truth.

00:02:57.620 Even if it wasn't a good book, I would still say it behooves every conservative to buy it,

00:03:03.280 because we need conservative—and I'm not—I don't mean that like you're a party man.

00:03:08.000 Yeah.

00:03:08.400 No, I'm a small C, conservatism, yes.

00:03:10.700 So, how did you know that this book was going to be so needed?

00:03:16.540 When did you—was it when Polyev became the new leader, and you thought, okay, we've got

00:03:20.320 to tell the story?

00:03:21.060 It was during the leadership race.

00:03:23.040 So, just as a bit of context, I wrote a book about the Freedom Convoy in 2022, and that

00:03:28.460 book just became this huge success, even though Indigo had blacklisted it, the mainstream media

00:03:33.460 would not give it a lick of attention.

00:03:36.040 And it was a bestselling book.

00:03:37.140 They blackballed it.

00:03:37.800 It was the number one bestseller for, I think, seven weeks.

00:03:40.640 And that's on The Globe and the Toronto Star.

00:03:42.420 Oh, they wouldn't even review it.

00:03:43.960 They wouldn't even review it.

00:03:45.120 So, I think what it showed there is what you said, that there is an appetite for these

00:03:49.540 stories in Canada, irrespective of what the media says is the official title of the summer.

00:03:55.480 And I think in general, there's also an issue in Canada in that we don't have people telling

00:04:00.180 these stories.

00:04:00.780 In the US, you have political columnists and talk radio people and Fox personalities that

00:04:05.860 are releasing a book a year.

00:04:06.920 Not all of them are good, but they're committed to doing it, and there's a market.

00:04:09.880 They're filling the pipeline, at least.

00:04:10.980 Yeah.

00:04:11.400 You've got a choice.

00:04:12.120 Whereas in Canada, who are the conservative historians?

00:04:15.020 I mean, Tom Flanagan wrote about the Harper campaign in 2004 and 2006 afterwards, but that

00:04:21.480 was basically it.

00:04:22.700 So few.

00:04:23.460 Yeah.

00:04:23.760 So few.

00:04:24.120 And so for me, when I was watching the leadership rallies that Polyev held, these rallies that

00:04:29.480 would bring out thousands of people, I was looking around and seeing, much like I had

00:04:33.300 seen with the Freedom Convoy, there's something bigger here that's happening that needs to

00:04:38.140 be explained.

00:04:38.880 And that was sort of when the idea started.

00:04:40.880 As he became the leader, as I saw that momentum continue, as I saw Polyev really campaigned

00:04:46.520 as a very different type of person from his predecessors and as a different person in

00:04:51.240 Canadian politics, I was pretty convinced.

00:04:53.360 There's a story here that needs to be told to introduce this guy to Canadians before the

00:04:57.860 mainstream media gets their hands up.

00:04:59.720 You know, I think one of the most important things you did in the book, and I'd like your

00:05:02.380 reaction to this, is you didn't just digest what had already been written about the guy.

00:05:09.020 Because like I say, that's got a bias built in because it would be written by CBC, Canadian

00:05:14.980 Press, Toronto Star.

00:05:16.320 So if you were just going to say, well, all I know about Pierre Polyev is what's being published

00:05:20.360 to date, even if you're trying to have a balanced book, it's not going to be balanced because 0.93

00:05:24.140 garbage in, garbage out. 0.68

00:05:26.120 You did a ton of primary research, by which I mean interviewing people. 1.00

00:05:32.140 Even interviewing people.

00:05:33.340 I mean, you talk to me.

00:05:33.960 Even you.

00:05:34.580 Even you.

00:05:35.220 You're a part of that.

00:05:36.220 I know because I knew the guy.

00:05:38.000 I mean, I worked with him 20 plus years ago.

00:05:40.380 So you did meticulous research.

00:05:43.100 I want you to talk about that because with books like this, people say, oh, I already

00:05:47.740 know about people.

00:05:49.820 Do you?

00:05:50.760 Or do you just know what the CBC and Althea Raj and Rosemary Barton say about it?

00:05:57.220 Because if you're just consuming the news, you have one perspective.

00:06:01.520 Give me some examples of things that you uncovered or discovered that are not part of the common

00:06:07.700 discussion of Pierre Polyev.

00:06:09.540 So I didn't want it to just be his Wikipedia page and send it to book form where it just

00:06:14.280 takes any mention of him in the news and throws it together in a timeline.

00:06:18.420 At the same time, I also know that Polyev's success in part has been because he's brought

00:06:23.500 new people into politics.

00:06:25.200 So I wanted it to be accessible in a way that it does cover old ground for people that don't

00:06:30.840 know anything about him.

00:06:31.920 Some of it will be repetitive.

00:06:33.260 But there was a focus that I had on talking to people that have been involved, not just going

00:06:38.720 back to when he was elected in 2004.

00:06:41.240 But before then, I mean, people may not know, even in your own audience, that he was your

00:06:44.440 communications director when you were an Elias candidate.

00:06:48.000 We were young.

00:06:48.640 He was young and I was young.

00:06:50.900 Yeah.

00:06:51.200 And that was just this chaotic time in Canadian politics.

00:06:55.320 And that was something that had to be in the book.

00:06:57.680 And that's something that a lot of people, it's out there, but a lot of people now in

00:07:01.460 your audience and in his might not have known.

00:07:03.600 I forgot about something.

00:07:04.460 You did.

00:07:05.560 You were, I was telling you stuff when I sat down to interview you and that was-

00:07:08.940 I forgot that I had co-written an article with him.

00:07:11.560 Yeah.

00:07:11.780 It's like, I-

00:07:12.780 Because I had asked you for a copy and you were like trying to, you were looking in the

00:07:16.340 same place as I was.

00:07:17.260 Let me interject and tell you, I've known Pierre Polyev as you've just indicated for

00:07:20.540 almost 30 years.

00:07:22.000 And what I tell people who ask me about him, I say, look, no one knows what's in a man's 0.54

00:07:27.220 heart, but he has been saying the same principled things since he was in college.

00:07:35.100 So maybe he'll have a change of heart when he's in power.

00:07:39.080 I don't know.

00:07:39.560 We can't predict the future.

00:07:40.860 But if past behavior is a predictor of future behavior, I've known him since he was in his

00:07:46.520 early 20s.

00:07:47.600 And he has been saying the same thing ever since.

00:07:50.260 Is that what you found?

00:07:51.260 And I would actually go even before that, because when you talk about things that I

00:07:54.760 found that weren't really part of the public discourse already, I found letters to the

00:07:59.280 editor he wrote even as a teenager, an op-ed he would write for the Calgary Herald here

00:08:03.820 and there.

00:08:04.660 And he had not just a principled conservatism back then when he was talking about, you know,

00:08:09.720 opposing the capital gains tax to bring it into the current context and other things like,

00:08:14.500 you know, small government.

00:08:15.720 He was even criticizing conservative leaders at the time.

00:08:19.940 Take some courage for a youngster.

00:08:21.580 Yeah.

00:08:21.840 Including the Ralph Klein government.

00:08:23.600 He, I mean, this is Ralph Klein is held up as being this, you know, granddaddy of Western

00:08:27.880 conservatism.

00:08:28.700 But Polyev was saying publicly, well, there are these people in this party that aren't

00:08:32.440 actually real conservatives. 0.97

00:08:33.460 So for a guy that wanted to work in politics, that was a pretty bold, maybe foolish, but 0.94

00:08:39.000 I'd say pretty bold thing. 0.73

00:08:40.720 So going back to even his teenage years, he was saying the exact same things he's saying

00:08:46.400 now on the issues that matter and on that core idea and on freedom.

00:08:50.840 I mean, he wrote an essay in university, which the prompt that he was given was, as prime

00:08:56.160 minister, I would.

00:08:57.240 Right.

00:08:57.480 That was a contest, wasn't it?

00:08:58.900 Yeah.

00:08:59.140 And he was a finalist.

00:09:00.000 He didn't win.

00:09:00.680 He was a finalist.

00:09:01.580 But the title of his essay, and it was run by Magna, was Building Canada Through Freedom.

00:09:07.580 And I got my hands on that essay.

00:09:09.580 You read the essay.

00:09:10.820 And even some of the phrases are almost identical to things he said when he announced his leadership

00:09:16.460 run in 2022.

00:09:17.780 Wow.

00:09:18.080 And that was, of course, 25 years later, 23 years later.

00:09:23.680 You know, on the one hand, that shows a remarkable focus and continuity and reliability, and

00:09:31.220 that's a sign of character.

00:09:32.720 What about those who would say, well, look, even since he was a lad in diapers, he was thinking

00:09:38.060 about politics.

00:09:40.240 He's a political creature through and through.

00:09:43.680 He wasn't a small businessman.

00:09:45.480 He wasn't in the art.

00:09:47.840 I guess it's an American experience more than a Canadian one, I regret.

00:09:52.240 What do you think about that?

00:09:53.840 I mean, and I'm not knocking it.

00:09:54.880 I'm just saying you remind me that even when he was a student, he was this way.

00:09:59.180 Yeah.

00:09:59.380 What do you think of that?

00:10:00.140 No, it's a fair criticism.

00:10:01.600 And, you know, the book is subtitled A Political Life for a Reason, because his life has been

00:10:05.760 about politics.

00:10:06.380 He had a very brief stint working, you know, in the private sector.

00:10:10.620 He didn't really build a career there.

00:10:12.560 He was a staffer, and then he was a candidate.

00:10:14.360 And then for the last 20 years, he's been a member of Parliament.

00:10:17.680 So I think it's a legitimate criticism. 0.82

00:10:19.920 And I think-

00:10:20.400 I don't even think I'm saying it was a criticism.

00:10:21.640 Well, I think it is a legitimate criticism, because on one hand, he's talking about, you

00:10:25.500 know, the ordinary middle class experiences of Canadians.

00:10:28.080 Most Canadians haven't been making a six-figure salary since their 20s.

00:10:31.280 But I also point out that the career politician label tends to be overlooked when people like

00:10:38.220 the politics of the person.

00:10:39.980 And it's the kind of thing, when you're going after a liberal, you say, oh, he's a career

00:10:43.080 politician.

00:10:43.520 When you're going after a conservative, you say, oh, he's a career politician.

00:10:46.700 But you only do it if you don't like them.

00:10:49.340 That tends to be it.

00:10:50.200 I think I was more interested not in making a judgment of, is that good or bad?

00:10:54.880 I was more interested in figuring out why it was.

00:10:57.400 And I talked to some of the people that had worked with him very early on in his career.

00:11:01.940 And it was interesting that he had actually spoken to the MP he sat next to when he took

00:11:07.360 his seat for the first time, Joe Preston, and said, you know, Joe, I'm a little bit concerned

00:11:11.760 that, you know, you're here, you're a business guy.

00:11:14.000 I don't have that experience.

00:11:15.620 What can I do to learn a little bit more about that?

00:11:18.020 And it was some of those conversations that led him to invest in property and just have

00:11:22.440 something that wasn't politics on the side.

00:11:25.480 So he'd have to worry about paperwork and taxes and just all the things that are something

00:11:31.540 has to work.

00:11:31.940 Yeah.

00:11:32.200 And he was aware that it was a bit of a blind spot, that it was a bit of a gap in his experience.

00:11:36.660 And he had also, at one point, which I found fascinating, and again, had never been reported

00:11:40.880 elsewhere, talked to someone who had volunteered on his campaign about leaving politics, about

00:11:45.520 serving a couple of terms, leaving, and then coming back and maybe being finance minister

00:11:50.560 or, heaven forbid, prime minister.

00:11:52.520 And there was a realization that sunk in.

00:11:55.140 This was the sense that I got that, well, if I leave, what if my seat's not there when

00:11:59.540 I come back?

00:12:00.080 What if it's not actually as easy to transition back into it?

00:12:03.480 So I could see how he ended up in that path dependency.

00:12:07.440 And again, the book is not to make a pro or anti-Polly a point.

00:12:11.640 It's just to talk about who he is and tell that story.

00:12:15.080 And as a result, as I started writing it, it really became a history of the modern conservative

00:12:19.340 movement and how this group of ragtag folks in Alberta reform politics became really the

00:12:27.280 conservative party of Canada we know today.

00:12:29.680 You know, I want to ask you about that because I knew him as a young guy from Calvary when

00:12:33.500 I was a slightly less young guy from Calvary.

00:12:37.300 And one of the things that has always frustrated Westerners, and I remember this being a topic

00:12:42.280 of discussion in the reform party, was how to get ahead in the federal government, you

00:12:46.640 need to be French-English bilingual.

00:12:48.700 And the odds of being bilingual, if you're born and raised in Calgary or Saskatchewan,

00:12:53.420 pretty low.

00:12:54.460 Odds of being bilingual if you're in Montreal is pretty high.

00:12:57.960 And so that was regarded as a kind of systemic barrier to Westerners.

00:13:02.260 When and how did Pierre Polyev learn French?

00:13:05.680 And his French, I mean, it's not perfect, but it's better than Joe Clark's French.

00:13:09.060 It's miles better than Preston Manning's French. 0.97

00:13:12.580 How is his French?

00:13:13.760 Which, what's the Quebec part of this story?

00:13:17.240 That's the one province he's not leading in the polls, which you can forgive a guy from

00:13:22.300 Alberta for not leading the polls.

00:13:24.360 Even with a name like Pierre Polyev.

00:13:25.920 You know, and I love, you know, I got to tell you, there's some politicians from Quebec I

00:13:30.220 despise.

00:13:31.460 Stephen Gilbeau is an example.

00:13:34.040 But to listen to Gilbeau, so he says, Pierre Poignet, like he really says it in a French

00:13:40.600 way.

00:13:43.600 And in a tiny way, that's a show of respect.

00:13:43.720 Like he's not saying Pierre Polyev.

00:13:45.880 Like he's not trying to, like I, there is something about the Laurentian elite that if

00:13:50.440 you try and speak French and they'll give you a touch of respect.

00:13:54.100 And I hate to give any credit to Stephen Gilbeau.

00:13:57.520 Yeah.

00:13:58.640 Pierre Polyev is a heck of a French name.

00:14:00.840 How is his French?

00:14:01.960 How is he doing in Quebec?

00:14:03.640 And how do Quebecers regard him?

00:14:05.180 Do you touch on that?

00:14:06.080 So his father's family is of Franco-Saskatchewan lineage.

00:14:10.520 I think it's his father's grandfather immigrated to Saskatchewan from France.

00:14:14.880 Oh yeah, so a long time ago.

00:14:15.900 Yeah.

00:14:16.440 And Polyev's father is, again, he grew up in the West.

00:14:20.340 He's not a native Francophone, but he thought French was important.

00:14:23.560 So he actually tried to instill in Polyev when he was young, a bit of that foundation.

00:14:28.000 Now, like a lot of other kids from Alberta, Polyev had very little interest in it.

00:14:31.760 And anything he learned, he had lost by the time he was working for Stockwell Day in Ottawa.

00:14:37.640 And it was only when he was a candidate, and actually when he got elected, that he started

00:14:41.900 to realize, hey, I should probably learn French, which I think in Canada is synonymous with

00:14:46.100 having political ambition.

00:14:47.520 That's right.

00:14:47.900 You learn the language.

00:14:48.840 And people remember Preston Manning.

00:14:50.480 Well, maybe they don't.

00:14:51.500 Preston Manning had to just do this painful, painful debate in basically reading a prepared

00:14:57.500 statement, because that was all he knew.

00:14:58.980 You know what?

00:14:59.540 It's hard for someone to, it's hard for anyone to learn a language later in life.

00:15:03.680 Kids sop up languages like crazy. 0.97

00:15:05.940 In fact, it's sort of fun to see bilingual kids.

00:15:08.480 If a mom speaks this and a dad speaks that, a kid might speak three languages.

00:15:12.680 When you're 20, 34, good luck to you.

00:15:15.040 Well, and Polyev's kids are basically trialing you because they're, yeah, his wife is very

00:15:19.680 fluid in French and Spanish.

00:15:21.400 And so basically they're learning all three of them.

00:15:23.220 Give me a little bit about her because I, you know, the first I saw her was at the leadership

00:15:27.920 race when she gave a big speech.

00:15:31.260 To me, she looks great.

00:15:33.520 She sounds great. 0.97

00:15:35.100 She is a walking, talking rebuttal to, you're racist. 0.96

00:15:39.320 You're against foreigners.

00:15:41.260 You're against, well, like she is such an asset.

00:15:44.920 And give us a word about her.

00:15:47.440 I don't know much about her.

00:15:48.360 And I don't either.

00:15:50.000 I know what I've seen and what I've learned.

00:15:52.120 And what's interesting, I'll say it's a bit of context in that Polyev is unique in using

00:15:57.620 his spouse.

00:15:58.460 And I don't mean that in a negative way, but deploying his spouse in politics.

00:16:02.300 Lorene Harper, I think, did maybe one interview and the entire time Harper was prime minister.

00:16:07.400 Yeah.

00:16:08.300 And Jill Scheer, you know, was at events, but not a household name.

00:16:12.120 And Rebecca O'Toole, you know, Aaron O'Toole's wife.

00:16:14.840 I mean, these are all spouses who were there and they were supportive, but they were never

00:16:18.460 doing events.

00:16:19.220 They were never doing tours.

00:16:20.280 They were never starring in ads in the way that Anna is.

00:16:23.440 And her story is compelling.

00:16:24.980 She's, you know, from she's a refugee from Venezuela.

00:16:27.580 She's escaped that socialist hellhole that is that country because Canada offered her family

00:16:32.080 a better life.

00:16:33.480 And she's also very telegenic. 0.98

00:16:35.240 She's very well-spoken.

00:16:36.980 She is very feisty, if you see. 1.00

00:16:39.060 I mean, her speech at the Conservative Convention just lit the whole crowd up.

00:16:43.400 That, you know what, that was the moment for me.

00:16:46.120 I guess it's partly because she herself was a step.

00:16:48.700 So the political life, the political communication, she's aware of it.

00:16:52.780 Yeah.

00:16:53.040 And she was, there's a fair bit in the book about how they met and how they started dating.

00:16:58.000 It's been a little polarizing to women who have read it because Paulyev had a confidence

00:17:02.640 about it that he reached out to her because they had met because she was working on the

00:17:06.820 Hill and he was an MP.

00:17:07.720 And, you know, she eventually, you know, emailed him because they had agreed, you know, she

00:17:12.120 would email his parliamentary email address and he didn't ask her out.

00:17:15.380 He gave her a date, a time, and a place.

00:17:17.200 Ah.

00:17:17.760 And she showed up and the rest is history.

00:17:20.540 I think that's sometimes how it works.

00:17:23.120 I could never pull that out.

00:17:23.980 Love will find a way.

00:17:25.640 Yeah.

00:17:25.840 Now, I want to talk about something that has surprised me in a good way.

00:17:30.560 Okay.

00:17:30.760 I started off by saying our side does not write the history.

00:17:35.260 We don't write the books, the TV, the movies, the documentaries.

00:17:38.720 I mean, we're starting to a tiny bit, but it's a drop in the bucket.

00:17:43.180 Your book is published by Sutherland House, which is a little bit right of center, I would

00:17:47.880 call it, compared to the other.

00:17:49.020 I would say they're non-political, but they publish the right of center.

00:17:53.120 Exactly.

00:17:53.840 They're not against it.

00:17:54.780 Their boss is Ken White, who was the founding editor of the National Post, was the guy who

00:18:00.160 breathed the conservative life into McLean's magazine.

00:18:03.540 So, he's tolerant of the right.

00:18:06.220 He doesn't deride it.

00:18:08.120 Any publishing house that published your trucker book, I mean, most publishers wouldn't touch

00:18:13.440 it because they would not be invited to cocktail parties.

00:18:17.060 I'll give your publisher credit, and obviously credit to you and the book.

00:18:20.900 But you've actually, this is, you've got to give it credit when you see it, you've actually

00:18:28.220 had mainstream media interviews.

00:18:29.860 Yeah.

00:18:30.140 The book has not been blacklisted this time like your trucker book.

00:18:33.800 No, no.

00:18:34.420 Give us some heartening news, and let's hear it.

00:18:37.320 Yeah.

00:18:37.560 Tell us the surprises, and we'll just marvel at it.

00:18:41.200 It's funny.

00:18:41.960 So, The Freedom Convoy was my first book, and I was so excited.

00:18:45.080 I'd wanted to be an author for-

00:18:46.100 And it crushed it.

00:18:46.820 ... so much of my life.

00:18:47.580 But what had happened was, the book was coming out, I cleared like three weeks of my schedule.

00:18:52.060 To do interviews.

00:18:52.580 Because I knew that I was just going to be morning to night interviews, I was going to

00:18:56.100 be speaking places, and then, you know, basically-

00:18:58.220 CBC would have you all-

00:18:59.120 Yeah, crickets, crickets.

00:19:00.380 I did your show, I did a podcast, and I was grateful for it.

00:19:03.160 I, I, it absolutely helped, but no interest at all.

00:19:05.920 But the sales were through the roof.

00:19:07.360 When I saw the interview request pouring in for this book, I was worried that, oh, maybe

00:19:10.780 that means it won't sell, because, you know, maybe there's an inverse relationship.

00:19:13.620 But, no, I, I've done 30 interviews with CBC, if you can believe it.

00:19:17.260 I've done 30.

00:19:17.580 I, that is hard to-

00:19:18.620 I've-

00:19:19.020 How it's all, every single-

00:19:20.500 Every, every single CBC radio show, uh, across, or every, every radio station.

00:19:24.980 And are there questions at least fair enough?

00:19:26.940 Yeah, I mean, for the CBC radio ones, the questions were pretty much identical in every

00:19:31.820 market, because they, there, there was a script, and I don't mean that in a critical way, but

00:19:35.120 they basically say, here are the main points.

00:19:37.100 But I did power in politics, and had a great time with David Cochran.

00:19:40.160 I did, you know, the house with Catherine Cullen.

00:19:42.380 I, I, you know, slipped in a couple of references to Polly, I'm wanting to defund the CBC when-

00:19:46.800 How did that go over?

00:19:47.900 Pretty well, because they know it, too.

00:19:49.620 Yeah, well, we have to-

00:19:50.080 And, and, and, and to be fair, I, I think CBC had a, there, there was one thing that worked

00:19:54.880 in my favor, which was the same day my book came out, a book about Justin Trudeau came

00:19:59.360 out as well.

00:19:59.880 So-

00:20:00.440 And you can't hide from one-

00:20:02.580 Right.

00:20:02.860 And cover the other.

00:20:03.740 Well, the CBC can if they wanted to.

00:20:05.300 Yeah, but I, I think they would have realized that the stakes were very high, and, and, you

00:20:08.880 know, I had-

00:20:09.220 But that's another thing, because they've got to be, maybe they're trying to be slightly

00:20:11.980 better behaved because they know a new boss is coming.

00:20:14.000 Maybe, and, and I think that, generally speaking, there was a sense that I got from the reporters

00:20:19.800 that I spoke to that they genuinely want to understand-

00:20:23.480 You're the free book L on the guy, and you, you probably had access to sources.

00:20:27.340 Like, if the CBC were to call me up, saying, hey, what about that op-ed you co-authored

00:20:31.480 with Polly of 30 years ago?

00:20:33.180 I, I would probably respond to get a search-

00:20:35.420 Yeah, it's, and look, Paul Wells, who I, I've always gotten along with well, I did an interview

00:20:39.640 on his podcast, and he had basically said, anytime I told anyone you were writing the

00:20:43.240 book, they would all just roll their eyes, because it's basically going to be this hagiography,

00:20:47.040 and I said, well, first off, it's not.

00:20:48.600 There are things in the book that I'm sure Polly of doesn't like, and things that he

00:20:51.420 does like, but more crucially, because of my investment in the right of center world

00:20:57.240 in this country, there were people who took my calls, like you said, that wouldn't have

00:21:00.820 taken the call of some Toronto star or CBC reporter, and as a result, even if you don't

00:21:05.660 like Polly of, my book has a much deeper view of who he is and what world he inhabits

00:21:11.140 because of who I am.

00:21:12.480 I'm sure that every single opposition war room member of the Liberal Party has read it,

00:21:19.220 and of course, the Liberal, sorry, the CBC, in my mind, is just an auxiliary to the Liberal

00:21:25.340 Party opposition war room, so they'll all have read it out of genuine interest and to

00:21:29.500 scour for things-

00:21:30.460 Yeah, the indigo across the street from Parliament Hill has been sold out pretty much every day.

00:21:35.240 They get more in there.

00:21:36.320 So it's all the staffers and journalists that are going to buy the map.

00:21:39.140 CBC, give me, and I just want to hear this because I share your happiness for this.

00:21:46.140 Yeah, the Doctrional Post ran a few, ran an excerpt in an article.

00:21:49.520 The Toronto Star had phenomenal coverage of it.

00:21:51.560 Really?

00:21:52.180 They ran, I think, three separate stories.

00:21:54.160 They had a fact.

00:21:55.140 The Globe and Mail had a review.

00:21:57.060 Now, the review was not particularly favorable.

00:21:59.420 It wasn't-

00:21:59.800 But it really-

00:22:00.160 They mentioned, if they hated you, they'd try to starve you off.

00:22:02.760 And they published an excerpt as well.

00:22:04.380 Well, it came out bad.

00:22:05.920 So, no, it's been good.

00:22:07.300 So I think the mainstream media realizes what's happening.

00:22:10.420 Any dates on TV?

00:22:12.540 I didn't know.

00:22:13.540 I did-

00:22:13.880 Well, I powered politics on CBC, and I did an interview on Global as well.

00:22:18.180 I'll stop pestering you.

00:22:19.000 I just think it's very encouraging.

00:22:20.040 No, no, it is.

00:22:20.660 And look, it's funny.

00:22:21.720 I had someone-

00:22:22.700 I did an interview with a newspaper in Ottawa, the Hill Times, and one of the questions the

00:22:26.760 reporter asked is, well, on one hand, you criticize the mainstream media, but here you

00:22:30.100 are using them to promote your book.

00:22:32.720 And it wasn't asked in a nasty way.

00:22:34.800 But I said, my issue with the mainstream media is that they are not spending time talking

00:22:40.820 about these things or talking to people like me.

00:22:42.900 So I would go on CBC every week if they wanted.

00:22:45.340 My frustration with them is that they're setting aside a part of the country.

00:22:49.460 So I'm not going to boycott the mainstream media, irrespective of whether there's a book,

00:22:54.000 because my whole point is that we need to be on that platform.

00:22:57.340 Well, that's right.

00:22:58.920 You know, you make me- I mean, all this talk about things 20, 30 years ago.

00:23:02.980 There was a time when I lived in Calgary, whenever I was coming to Toronto for whatever reason,

00:23:07.880 I would tell the CBC and they would put me on just because they were so desperate for

00:23:12.220 Western conservative content.

00:23:14.260 There was a show, I don't know if you remember, maybe before your time, called Face Off.

00:23:18.120 It was like the American show Crossfire.

00:23:20.680 Okay.

00:23:21.020 A permanent guest on the left, Judy Rebick, sorry, permanent host.

00:23:25.180 A permanent host on the left, Judy Rebick, formerly the head of the National Action

00:23:28.340 Committee on Status Women.

00:23:29.780 You had a permanent host on the right, Claire Hoy, a conservative commentator.

00:23:33.100 And each show they would bring on-

00:23:34.860 He was the Hannity and she was the Colt.

00:23:36.500 That's right.

00:23:36.680 That was the-

00:23:37.180 Yeah.

00:23:37.580 But they would bring in guests two at a time, a liberal and a conservative.

00:23:40.540 So they were- in Toronto, they were always trying to get a Western conservative voice.

00:23:45.920 The idea that there would be a show with a built-in conservative voice is unthinkable today.

00:23:52.160 By the way, they replaced Crossfire with Avi Lewis's own show.

00:23:56.400 I mean, talk about a sign of their change.

00:23:59.440 So those early days, Eddie, this is off topic from your book, but I do remember when the

00:24:04.920 CBC at least went through the motions of having another point of view.

00:24:08.820 So I'm glad that you're back on.

00:24:10.220 Yeah, because the problem with a lot of these panels is that you tune in and the panel is

00:24:14.880 Althea Raj, Chantal A. Baer, and Andrew Coyne.

00:24:17.080 And it's like, well, who's representing the conservative viewpoint?

00:24:19.740 I mean, Andrew Coyne, I guess.

00:24:21.940 Geographically, that's all the way from, I don't know, Montreal.

00:24:24.600 Yeah, yeah.

00:24:25.400 We don't even go to Bathurst, I don't think.

00:24:27.500 I think it ends at Yonge Street as far as Toronto.

00:24:29.640 And just all the opinions from A to B.

00:24:31.900 Yeah.

00:24:32.200 It's incredible.

00:24:33.320 I'm glad you're doing that book.

00:24:34.440 And so when you got cooking for it, you've done the media rounds, I'm thrilled to hear

00:24:40.540 it.

00:24:40.640 Are you doing any events, like a book launch?

00:24:43.160 I've done a few.

00:24:43.860 We launched it in Calgary, which I thought was so fitting, because that's where Polyev 1.00

00:24:47.000 himself was launched.

00:24:48.360 We had a phenomenal event on Parliament Hill.

00:24:50.860 We were in Toronto.

00:24:52.160 I'm actually off to Winnipeg right after this interview to do an event there.

00:24:56.100 So that's the other thing that I never got with the Freedom Convoy.

00:24:58.140 I never had a book tour of sorts.

00:25:00.140 Oh, great.

00:25:00.580 So it's been good.

00:25:01.460 So there's a tremendous amount of interest.

00:25:03.000 And I think part of that is because there is a momentum right now that in conservative

00:25:08.040 politics, there hasn't been for the last nine years.

00:25:12.700 And even if someone is not voting for Polyev, you can't deny that the conservative party

00:25:16.820 is looking and feeling a lot different right now than it has been the last two elections.

00:25:22.920 And I give the truckers some obvious credit for that.

00:25:26.360 It was the truckers who forced the issue.

00:25:29.060 Aaron O'Toole played it wrong.

00:25:30.420 He was defenestrated by his own caucus.

00:25:32.680 And sorry to interrupt there, but when you mentioned Aaron O'Toole, the number of conservative

00:25:37.000 caucus members that I spoke to, members of Parliament, for this book was sizable.

00:25:42.340 The way that Aaron O'Toole is viewed and spoken about by that group wouldn't surprise you,

00:25:48.640 probably would delight you.

00:25:50.320 But they're not...

00:25:51.720 His name is Mudd in that caucus.

00:25:54.380 And that's something that as well in this book, I think, shines through.

00:25:57.300 Some of these comments were on background, so I couldn't quote them and certainly couldn't

00:26:00.780 name them.

00:26:01.300 But there has been a changeover where a lot of people really, really are so happy that

00:26:06.480 he is a figure of the past.

00:26:08.520 Well, I'm one of them.

00:26:09.340 And I mean, it's not just me having a Biden moment.

00:26:12.680 Sometimes I forget his name.

00:26:14.420 I think he was a placeholder in history.

00:26:17.260 We won't linger on him.

00:26:18.980 Well, listen, we have something called Rebel News Live once a year in Toronto, once a year

00:26:25.080 in Calgary.

00:26:25.600 Consider this an invitation if you haven't received one already.

00:26:28.380 I think I'm going to be at the Calgary.

00:26:30.300 Bring your books.

00:26:32.040 Love to sell them to our people for you.

00:26:33.800 Calgary, I'm really glad you're doing this.

00:26:36.940 I'm so glad you're filling this cultural void.

00:26:41.220 There's a lot of pundits and bloggers and YouTubers and podcasters out there.

00:26:46.100 But to write a book and publish it, the authoritative book, the first book, the book that even the

00:26:52.140 bad guys at the CBC read is an important accomplishment.

00:26:56.760 As I started the interview, who writes our history?

00:26:59.480 Who writes our biographies?

00:27:00.840 Imagine if Althea Raj had been the first one with a book on Pierre Paulyab.

00:27:06.620 Imagine if that Cochran fellow, the CBCer, was the first.

00:27:11.700 I think it's incredibly important that you set the default.

00:27:16.560 And others will publish books, too, and that's great.

00:27:18.800 But you were first, and that's very important culturally.

00:27:22.940 Folks, you can get a copy of the book on Amazon.

00:27:26.000 We'll put a link under this video.

00:27:27.760 Do you have a special page you want to refer to, or is Amazon?

00:27:30.000 No, just look up Amazon, Pierre Paulyab, A Political Life.

00:27:32.860 It's also available on Indigo, but Amazon, it'll be at your door probably the next day.

00:27:37.140 Right.

00:27:37.620 Well, listen, at the beginning, I sort of half-joked that even if it was a crappy book, I would

00:27:42.640 say buy it just to support the phenomenon.

00:27:46.100 But I think, you know, Andrew Lawton and his actual work at True North and before that and

00:27:49.580 other publications to know it's not a crappy book.

00:27:52.200 It's a deeply researched book.

00:27:53.600 It's a book with new facts that you only get by interviewing people, not just by, you know,

00:27:59.720 Google searching.

00:28:00.740 And the fact that it is breaking down barriers, and the fact that you've been interviewed 30

00:28:05.420 times is amazing to me.

00:28:06.800 I think it's important that we support this book.

00:28:09.080 And by we, I mean you and me.

00:28:10.720 And by support, I mean buying the book.

00:28:14.240 Buy it to read it, but buy it to support it, and buy it to send a signal that Canadians want

00:28:20.240 to hear the other side of the story.

00:28:21.400 You know, that's our motto, telling the other side of the story.

00:28:23.260 Today, the guy who's telling the other side of the story on Pierre Paulyab is Andrew Lawton.

00:28:28.700 The book is called Pierre Paulyab, A Political Life.

00:28:30.820 It's great to see you, my friend.

00:28:31.640 Thank you so much, Ezra.

00:28:32.520 All right.

00:28:32.940 There you have it.

00:28:33.540 Well, that's our show for today.

00:28:34.540 What a pleasure.

00:28:34.980 Until next time, and on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters, to you

00:28:39.000 and all, good night.

00:28:40.460 Keep fighting for freedom.

Rebel News Podcast - June 20, 2024

EZRA LEVANT ｜ Poilievre's support for freedom propelled his political stardom

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