Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ Upholding charter rights： An interview with Brian Peckford

00:00:00.000 All my friends, a special feature interview today with Brian Peckford.

00:00:03.680 What a good egg. What a smart cookie.

00:00:06.340 We're going to talk about his lawsuit against the federal government

00:00:09.160 and how he's appealing a setback.

00:00:11.280 We're going to talk about Trudeau government's threat

00:00:15.200 to tear up provincial rights and natural resources.

00:00:18.440 And we're going to talk about foreign treaties in Canada law.

00:00:21.980 You know, this guy has so many interesting things to say.

00:00:24.200 He really is living history.

00:00:25.480 As you know, he was the last living premier who actually was there in the 80s

00:00:31.260 to negotiate and sign our Charter of Rights.

00:00:34.800 Very interesting man.

00:00:36.880 Let me invite you to become a subscriber to Rebel News Plus so you can see it in video.

00:00:40.620 We'll have a few video clips in the interview.

00:00:43.220 Go to rebelnewsplus.com and click subscribe.

00:00:46.560 It's a great show. Here, take a listen.

00:00:48.260 Tonight, a feature interview with our friend, Premier Brian Peckford.

00:01:07.480 It's April 26th and this is the Ezra LeVant Show.

00:01:10.080 You're fighting for freedom!

00:01:13.280 Shame on you, you sensorism bug!

00:01:18.260 Sometimes there's an exercise in imagination.

00:01:29.180 People say, what historical figure would you like to have dinner with

00:01:33.460 if you could go back in time?

00:01:35.700 And I love hearing the answers to that.

00:01:38.500 Joe Rogan went through the thought experiment of his,

00:01:42.160 if there was any time and place in history, where could you go?

00:01:45.600 And I loved his answer.

00:01:46.680 He wanted to see how they made the pyramids.

00:01:49.320 And I think with Canada's history, it's a shorter history.

00:01:53.180 In fact, we only repatriated our Charter of Rights and Freedom some 40-odd years ago.

00:01:59.600 So we don't have to engage in a speculative act of imagination

00:02:03.940 to wonder what the framers of the most modern version of our Constitution would say.

00:02:09.980 Because we are lucky enough to have one of the premiers who actually negotiated and signed the Charter of Rights.

00:02:19.900 Thank God he's still with us.

00:02:21.900 And he is very much engaged in matters of public policy.

00:02:25.460 So we don't have to daydream, well, what would this premier or that prime minister have said?

00:02:30.360 We can actually get on the Zoom call with him via Skype from Victoria, B.C.

00:02:37.280 And indeed, right now, it is my pleasure to call on Premier Brian Peckford of Newfoundland,

00:02:43.620 who helped negotiate the Charter of Rights, to talk about that Charter of Rights.

00:02:48.580 It's the thought experiment come true.

00:02:50.640 Premier, great to see you again.

00:02:52.340 I say all that because you are a historical resource.

00:02:55.340 You're not just a pundit, you are a man who was part of Canadian history,

00:03:00.480 and we're very glad to be able to talk to you.

00:03:03.740 Thank you very much.

00:03:04.760 It's great to be on with you again, Ezra.

00:03:06.380 Well, thank you.

00:03:07.220 And I want to take our time because our viewers love not just the education they get from you,

00:03:13.460 but the passion.

00:03:15.000 You are a true believer in this country, and you're in British Columbia now.

00:03:19.460 You, of course, are a Newfoundlander at heart.

00:03:22.040 And I think people can tell your love for this country, and they're moved by it.

00:03:27.620 I'd like to talk about a couple of things.

00:03:29.620 Like I say, you're not just an observer or a pundit.

00:03:32.160 You're a man of history.

00:03:33.800 You're part of history.

00:03:35.320 And you were the plaintiff in a constitutional challenge to the federal government's rule

00:03:41.640 that banned unvaccinated people from flying or taking the train.

00:03:47.120 Now, unfortunately, the court saw fit to throw that out, saying it was moot.

00:03:51.140 I understand that you and your trello plaintiffs, including Maxime Bernier, have filed an appeal.

00:03:57.760 Can you tell us a little bit about the legal status of your lawsuit?

00:04:01.860 I think it's important that it get its day in court.

00:04:04.400 Tell me a little bit about your thoughts.

00:04:05.880 Yes, well, when we lost in the federal court on the idea of mootness that the judge ruled on,

00:04:16.660 we and the lawyers took a hard look at this to see whether there were grounds for appeal.

00:04:21.700 And the lawyers came back and said, in their view, and in my view, too, there is a strong argument to appeal.

00:04:30.360 And so we have filed the appeal now, and we're waiting for the federal government, for the Crown,

00:04:38.600 to respond to our appeal application.

00:04:42.720 And so that's where we are right now.

00:04:44.480 Hopefully, we'll get a federal government response to our appeal,

00:04:49.660 and then the judge will be appointed, the federal court of appeal, to hear our appeal and then give us a date.

00:04:57.940 So that's where it is.

00:04:59.000 Very interesting, Ezra, your viewers might like to know,

00:05:02.780 that a court in British Columbia, since this COVID business started, ruled against moot being used in this constitutional pandemic environment

00:05:17.680 because the judge said that we don't know when this is all going to be over, when they're going to perhaps reinstitute it again.

00:05:26.120 And, of course, that was one of our arguments before the federal court,

00:05:30.960 that this is not a moot at all because the Minister of Transportation and other members of the federal government

00:05:38.480 had indicated that they would really bring this back in again at a moment's notice if they felt in their wisdom,

00:05:46.620 in my view, in their own wisdom, that it was needed.

00:05:51.180 So it is not a moot, dead situation.

00:05:55.720 It's a very alive situation.

00:05:58.080 The other argument we're making now in our appeal is one that's very, very important,

00:06:04.600 and that is this is in the public interest.

00:06:07.440 There were millions of Canadians who were unvaccinated,

00:06:11.220 who were denied their constitutional charter rights to travel,

00:06:16.140 to see their parents, to see their family, to visit their business,

00:06:20.440 whatever, or even travel outside the country to friends or family.

00:06:25.420 And so our constitutional rights and freedoms under the Charter were violating millions of Canadians,

00:06:32.100 and that this is in the public interest for the highest courts in the land

00:06:36.340 to adjudicate on the federal government's action and whether it's constitutional or not.

00:06:42.500 So those are our two main arguments.

00:06:44.440 The third one, which is sort of secondary, but when you hear it, it makes people really mad,

00:06:51.480 and that is that the judge talked about not being able to afford the time.

00:06:55.960 This really wasn't, you know, a case now because it's moved to take up the time of the court and the cost of the court.

00:07:02.560 So this is from a judiciary, which is involved with a government that has spent, like drunk of sailors,

00:07:10.280 over the last, billions of dollars in the last three years. 0.55

00:07:14.240 So this is a pretty silly argument, and hopefully the lawyers won't get a chance to argue that in court as well.

00:07:20.820 So those are the three main things.

00:07:22.420 And so we're waiting now to see when the federal government responds to our application of appeal

00:07:27.920 and a date for when it will be heard.

00:07:30.800 Right. Well, I'm very glad you are doing that appeal.

00:07:33.840 And I presume it's with the Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms.

00:07:38.840 Well, they're excellent, and we know them, and they really do set the standard.

00:07:43.960 And I'm a supporter of theirs as well as the Democracy Fund, two great civil liberties groups.

00:07:48.340 You know, there's a circular argument to saying, well, we ought not to take up the court's time with this travel ban because it's gone.

00:08:02.540 Well, the thing is, I don't know if the phrase is a circular argument, but if it's in place for a number of months or let's say even a year,

00:08:09.340 if the court moves slowly, which is the court's way, and then the government removes the flight ban,

00:08:19.760 if you could not possibly have been in court any faster, if they move so slowly, we'll never know if it was legal or not.

00:08:29.300 And they could bring it back and then take it out and bring it back.

00:08:31.620 And I suppose theoretically, technically, they could, every year, they could suspend it and say, oh, you can't take us to court because it's moot.

00:08:40.080 I mean, just because the courts are slow doesn't mean it's not an important matter.

00:08:44.080 And the government has not repudiated it or renounced this.

00:08:47.820 As you say, they would do it again in a flash.

00:08:50.280 They thought it was very good.

00:08:52.220 And I can't think of something that's more in the public interest to more people than this.

00:08:57.680 Absolutely, Ezra, and you make an excellent point, because guess what?

00:09:05.000 We applied for this to be an expedited case, and the courts accepted it, and the federal government accepted it as an expedited case.

00:09:13.100 Then they turn around after agreeing to speed it up and slow it down by going back to the court and asking for changes as to how many people they would have arguing the case two or three times.

00:09:28.900 And so they are the people who have contributed to us not having the case heard before the federal government took away the mandates.

00:09:42.140 Yeah, I think their very slowness, it's on them.

00:09:45.980 And then for them to say, oh, too late, you're out of time.

00:09:48.680 Well, listen, I wish you good luck with that.

00:09:50.620 And it sounds like there are many steps yet to go.

00:09:53.720 But do you think there's a chance that the appeal could be heard in 2023?

00:09:59.260 Or do you think this is something that won't be heard until next year?

00:10:02.460 I mean, boy, these courts move slowly, don't they?

00:10:06.420 Oh, man, it's just unbelievable.

00:10:08.180 When you look at some of the appeal courts in the United States and compare it to here, it really makes you sad.

00:10:14.520 But no, our best judgment and talking to the lawyers and so on is that it will be heard this year.

00:10:20.100 I'm glad to hear it.

00:10:21.220 You're right to point to the United States.

00:10:23.120 I mean, the Supreme Court itself in the United States weighed in on various lockdown rules in, I think, as soon as 2020.

00:10:32.160 I mean, there were some great cases written, and the Supreme Court of the United States has some brilliant writing.

00:10:38.300 I mean, their judgments really come alive.

00:10:41.480 And they're often quite brief, which is the best.

00:10:44.340 Like there was a famous case.

00:10:47.580 Gavin Newsom, the governor of California, locked down churches but gave exemptions to some Hollywood productions.

00:10:55.880 And I forget which judge it was who said, if you can sing at America's Got Talent, you can sing in a church.

00:11:04.740 He wasn't saying you can't lock down a church.

00:11:07.000 He was saying you can't lock it down any harder than the governor.

00:11:10.460 And that was one of the things the governor said.

00:11:12.500 You can't go to church because there's all this singing.

00:11:14.860 And the court said, well, if you can allow, it was just a beautiful short ruling that said, if you can sing on America's Got Talent or American Idol, you can sing in a church.

00:11:26.740 And they quickly swatted down these unconstitutional moves.

00:11:32.640 And in Canada, our Supreme Court has yet to weigh in on any lockdown or pandemic matters.

00:11:40.560 Our Supreme Court has literally not ruled on a single case.

00:11:44.380 Am I right on that, Premier?

00:11:46.140 Yes, exactly.

00:11:47.800 You're absolutely right on that.

00:11:50.600 It's an embarrassment to Canadians to think that these courts in Canada can move so slowly.

00:12:00.060 And here, our neighbor to the south can move so much quicker.

00:12:04.560 I mean, what can you say anymore about the way the court?

00:12:08.240 And the other thing about this case now, as I said in my introduction, is that there was a court in B.C., in the Supreme Court of B.C., which actually said that the mootness argument was not valid.

00:12:19.560 So you have one court, a high court in one problem, saying moot is not valid in this pandemic area.

00:12:27.580 You need decisions.

00:12:28.460 You need answers.

00:12:29.500 And then another court at the federal level saying that you can use mootness.

00:12:33.960 So the judiciary has a problem in being consistent.

00:12:37.600 Well, listen, I wish you good luck in that appeal.

00:12:40.780 And I don't want to say that I'm optimistic because I am not optimistic.

00:12:46.640 I don't think a single substantial, substantive matter has been adjudicated in the freedom direction by any court in Canada.

00:12:58.700 There were a few very minor cases that had a flicker of freedom, but they were appealed.

00:13:03.720 There was a family law case in Ontario that it was appealed.

00:13:07.260 And the federal court has been atrocious.

00:13:10.520 So, listen, I'm rooting for you, but I don't want to.

00:13:13.320 I have just had the optimism beaten out of me on this pandemic stuff.

00:13:17.940 I want to switch gears, though, if I may, Premier.

00:13:20.560 OK.

00:13:21.160 Because I want to talk about other constitutional matters.

00:13:23.600 It's not just about civil rights.

00:13:26.420 It's also about, you know, part of our constitution is which level of government gets to do what.

00:13:33.280 And, in fact, that has probably been behind many of the constitutional disagreements in Canada, even more than the civil liberties stuff.

00:13:41.420 And what can the feds do?

00:13:43.540 What can the provinces fight back with?

00:13:45.060 That's been really an animating feature of the Quebec separatism.

00:13:50.000 I want to draw your attention to a statement made by the Justice Minister Lamedi when he was at an Aboriginal gathering.

00:13:59.560 I think it was the Association Assembly of First Nations.

00:14:02.480 And he was asked a question about indigenous sovereignty over resources.

00:14:08.380 And he mused, he was asked would he consider turning over a constitutional agreement that's almost 100 years old, about 100 years old, between provinces like Alberta and Saskatchewan and the feds that gave those provinces the rights to resources, which all the other provinces have.

00:14:28.160 Without further ado, let me play the clip of Justice Minister Lamedi, not agreeing, but saying he would review it.

00:14:39.400 He would take a look at it.

00:14:41.780 Here, listen to the Justice Minister in his own words.

00:14:45.560 From Chief Brian, also from Chief Don Maracle, the point about the natural resources transfer agreement.

00:14:52.740 Chief Maracle did it indirectly.

00:14:56.540 Chief Brian did it directly.

00:14:59.300 And you're on the record for that.

00:15:01.580 I obviously can't pronounce on that right now.

00:15:03.920 But I do commit to looking at that.

00:15:07.600 It won't be uncontroversial is the only thing I would say with a bit of a smile.

00:15:13.180 Well, I'm sure he did that to please the audience right in front of him.

00:15:16.920 But the thing about the 21st century is what you say to one group of people is often caught on tape and is shown to other groups of people.

00:15:24.260 So you better keep your story straight.

00:15:26.400 That led to outrage and panic by the two provinces I mentioned before, Saskatchewan and Alberta.

00:15:33.320 Basically, here's the Justice Minister saying he will review the entire constitutional order.

00:15:40.360 And those two provinces put out press releases.

00:15:43.000 And I don't know if it was serious, but the Justice Minister then put out a statement denying he said it.

00:15:48.840 We saw the tape.

00:15:50.020 Premier, is this much ado about nothing?

00:15:52.120 Is this just a Justice Minister sucking up and trying to pander to a group of people in front of him?

00:15:59.300 Or do you think that Justin Trudeau and his Justice Minister would seriously consider taking natural resource rights away from Alberta and Saskatchewan and giving it to the feds or the indigenous people?

00:16:13.160 I don't.

00:16:13.920 I think he was pandering.

00:16:16.760 But I suspect there was also an element in there of testing just how this would fly within the body politic.

00:16:23.820 And I think he got his answer.

00:16:25.580 The other thing one could say is that if it's neither of those, then the man is incompetent and should be fired from his job. 0.95

00:16:34.700 The prime minister should fire the man, because if he's just not pandering or testing it with the prime minister's blessing, then this is absolutely ridiculous.

00:16:45.540 The section, as you know, Section 92A of the BNA Act clearly gives jurisdiction for natural resources, non-renewable natural resources, to the provinces.

00:16:58.280 And this transfer to the two provinces when it was done was consistent with that provision of the Constitution.

00:17:07.080 And furthermore, to even make it more difficult for the prime minister and the justice minister to make good on this silly notion, myself, you're surely here, negotiated, my administration negotiated with the federal government, the Atlantic Accord.

00:17:28.000 Only a few months before we negotiated, the government of the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that offshore oil and gas resources belonged to the federal government.

00:17:38.660 They had jurisdiction over it.

00:17:40.000 And yet, a few months later, we were able to negotiate an Atlantic Accord which transferred the enactment of royalties and the collection of royalties as if the oil and gas was on land and that we would have significant management rights as well.

00:17:58.280 So, a very current situation exists whereby a province which has no jurisdiction over oil and gas, over non-renewable resources offshore, has de facto provincial jurisdiction.

00:18:14.560 So, for the federal government now to turn around and to try to violate Section 92A of the BNA Act and violate the spirit and words of the Atlantic Accord is something that will not fly.

00:18:30.800 And the minister of justice might as well go and crawl away into a corner and get out of politics altogether because that is ridiculous. 0.80

00:18:39.300 Huh. You know, I'm so glad you reminded me about that Atlantic Accord and you're right because if you can take those natural resource rights away from Alberta and Saskatchewan, why couldn't you take it away from the Atlantic provinces too?

00:18:51.040 And although that may suit Justin Trudeau, who's always looking for more sources of revenue, that's just not how Canada is built.

00:18:57.380 And, you know, it's just so – when Stephen Harper was elected prime minister, you know, his critics, oh, he's a cowboy, he's from Calgary, he's a wild man, he's going to torch the place.

00:19:07.200 He's – he pacified separatist movements.

00:19:10.800 When he left office, Quebec separatism was at a once-in-a-generation low because he did not inflame things.

00:19:19.680 In fact, the one comment he made, you know, a decade earlier about Atlantic Canada having maybe a welfare mentality, he said that once and he never lived it down.

00:19:30.780 Other than that comment, which he made long before he was prime minister, he was meticulous at not antagonizing the regions.

00:19:39.900 In fact, you could say he gave too much away to the regions.

00:19:42.980 He gave away billions to Quebec.

00:19:45.100 It's so ironic that Stephen Harper, the outsider, the Calgary conservative, was more respectful of regional differences than the Quebec – the son of Quebec, Justin Trudeau.

00:19:59.200 And you see that again here, the cavalier way in which the Trudeau government pokes the bear.

00:20:04.880 It makes no sense to me, but he's doing it.

00:20:06.980 Yeah, absolutely no sense whatsoever.

00:20:10.000 And I really think that the prime minister seemed to be very weak here because this minister had no business musing like that at any forum in Canada where it's – and we all know from the national energy program that his father brought in and how that was – you know, that's still causing Alberta and Saskatchewan to vote conservative today.

00:20:36.460 Many decades after that attempt by his father to do it, that they would have learned their lesson.

00:20:42.860 But they don't seem to have learned their lesson, and they're still trying to – they're the ones who used the word balkanize the country.

00:20:49.960 Again, when they attacked the provinces, that it's really the federal government that's balkanizing the country.

00:20:56.280 You know, when you say did he learn his lesson, I think the lesson he learned was that his father, Pierre Trudeau, could win election after election by antagonizing Alberta because it's a small place that always folks are conservative anyway.

00:21:11.820 So I think, unfortunately – I mean, remember, he was – I think he was born in December 1971.

00:21:19.580 So he was just a boy of around 8, 9, 10, 11 when that real national energy program was in effect.

00:21:29.220 So he would have been – he wouldn't have had a deep knowledge, but he would have known something was going on.

00:21:33.640 He would remember some names and faces, and apparently he was around the supper table when Pierre Trudeau had, you know, Mark Lalonde, the minister of energy, natural resources, others around.

00:21:45.180 I think that Justin Trudeau has a child's memory, which is a simplified memory.

00:21:51.940 But if anything, he would have – the last years of his father's tenure as prime minister were amongst the most antagonistic.

00:22:00.760 So if he has any memory of – or of lessons learned from his dad, it would be smash Alberta, to hell with that oil province, screw the West, we'll take the rest.

00:22:12.440 Like if he learned anything, it was what he could get away with.

00:22:16.920 And I think you see that.

00:22:18.840 I think there's echoes in Justin Trudeau of what a child heard his father say 25 years ago, 40 years ago.

00:22:25.560 It could very well be.

00:22:26.920 But he's got very poor advisors and very poor people from the West advising him.

00:22:32.560 I mean, no doubt the Trudeau of today visiting Saskatchewan and Alberta has heard when he's shaking hands with people how they would obviously bring up the national energy program.

00:22:46.480 And his people are reading the newspapers every day.

00:22:49.560 And so there's no excuse for this man and for this minister getting on like that when there's so many other issues that are important to the country that they should be putting their minds to, as opposed to trying to steal away jurisdiction legitimately given to the provinces.

00:23:07.840 You know, I want to ask you about one more thing, and I suppose it's a quasi-constitutional matter.

00:23:13.640 In the United States, foreign treaties have to be ratified by the U.S. Senate.

00:23:18.420 The president can negotiate them, but they don't become American law until they're approved by the Senate.

00:23:26.100 And I think there's some wisdom there.

00:23:27.360 In response to Lamedi's statement, and then his half backtracking, Justin Trudeau and Lamedi put out comments saying, they were actually, they tried to flip it around and go on the offensive, saying that Pierre Polyev of the Conservatives doesn't respect indigenous people.

00:23:46.040 And that, in fact, it's Lamedi's goal to bring Canada into compliance with this UN treaty called UNDRIP, United Nations DRIP, which is a declaration on rights of indigenous persons.

00:24:00.800 Here's Trudeau trying to flip it around.

00:24:03.340 Instead of being apologetic or saying, oh, it was nothing, he actually doubled down in a way saying, we're going to do more for indigenous people than those conservatives.

00:24:10.880 Hi, I'm Malak from the Free Press. I wanted to ask about the Natural Resources Transfer Act.

00:24:16.240 Is it appropriate, in your opinion, to review the agreements? And how do you address the concerns raised by the Prairie Premiers?

00:24:22.040 Let me be very clear. The Minister of Justice said no such thing.

00:24:27.960 If you actually look at his remarks, it is very clear that we're talking about the importance of the federal government living up to our responsibilities under UNDRIP,

00:24:37.580 something that, unfortunately, the Prairie Premiers have not taken seriously, and they are instead trying to elevate fears that have absolutely no grounding in truth.

00:24:49.180 We know we need to move forward in true reconciliation and partnership with indigenous peoples,

00:24:54.060 and that's something that we certainly hope we're going to be able to work on with the Premiers and with indigenous peoples,

00:25:00.480 to be able to grow the economy and create those great jobs, including in natural resources,

00:25:06.920 that are going to be there for decades to come as we move towards a net-zero world.

00:25:11.080 That's Trudeau in question period, and here's Lamedi, again, not really denying the essence of it,

00:25:15.860 saying that he intends to make Canada's laws harmonize to the UN.

00:25:21.460 Again, Premier, the UN is not in our Constitution.

00:25:26.540 The UN was not voted for by Canadian people.

00:25:28.880 You can't fire the UN.

00:25:30.500 You can't elect a different party of the UN.

00:25:32.760 I find it undemocratic that synchronizing and harmonizing our country with the whims of foreign diplomats, bureaucrats, is a goal at all.

00:25:45.240 I mean, I'm worried about that.

00:25:46.900 And again, I wish we had the American checks and balances where their Senate has to approve it.

00:25:51.860 The situation is that I have come to the conclusion, and last year I issued my own Magna Carta on the steps of the legislature of the BC legislature in Victoria.

00:26:05.480 And one of the provisions of what I was proposing for Reform Canada is that this business of signing deals, either with the UN or trade deals, which in any way affect our sovereignty, must be opposed.

00:26:24.280 We must go back to first principles as it relates to our Constitution and our sovereignty.

00:26:29.820 Yes, we are a trading nation, but we trade, and it must be fair trade, without any semblance of somebody else deciding upon that trade and what can be traded and what can be.

00:26:43.360 The same way as it relates to our rights under the Constitution, we must reform our policies so that we're not signing on to things as members of the United Nations, which would come back to violate the constitutional principles which established the country in the beginning.

00:27:01.360 I tell you, there's a lot of things broken. I want to ask you a partisan question, and I don't want to put you on the spot because I think your advice is more nonpartisan.

00:27:12.140 I mean, people of every political stripe can respect the Constitution, respect the Charter of Rights, respect national sovereignty.

00:27:19.200 And I think, by the way, the lockdowns during the pandemic, there were people in all parts of the spectrum who had reasons to oppose it.

00:27:28.320 So I like to think of you as nonpartisan.

00:27:32.460 But in many ways, the solution to the current crisis would involve, in our system, replacing the current prime minister with the leader of the opposition.

00:27:40.600 And I'd like to ask you, first of all, for your assessment of Pierre Polyev as a prospective prime minister, and second of all, your prediction, do you think he's got a shot?

00:27:52.740 I think there's a chance we'll have an election this year.

00:27:56.160 Polls show that the Conservatives are actually leading, not by a lot, but leading.

00:28:01.900 What are your thoughts on Polyev?

00:28:05.700 Would he be a good PM?

00:28:07.180 And do you think he's got a chance?

00:28:08.380 I had hoped that he would, somebody coming after Mr. O'Toole, would pick up the mantle.

00:28:19.080 But I have been very disappointed.

00:28:21.020 He called me when he was running for the leadership and asked for my support, and I refused to provide it to him,

00:28:27.680 because I was, at that point, disappointed in how he did not participate in the trucker's convoy,

00:28:33.940 where I flew down to there and spoke and had meetings with Tamera Leach and the board and so on,

00:28:41.560 and was very strongly supportive of what they were doing, especially after I got there and realized that this was a very peaceful,

00:28:48.000 civil disobedience, constitutionally ratified protest.

00:28:52.240 And so I was very, very disappointed.

00:28:54.900 And I found out from some of the people from Saskatchewan and Alberta who were part of trying to get a meeting with the government

00:29:03.160 as a delegation, a trucker's delegation, to talk about their grievances,

00:29:09.440 but at the same time they were trying to get meetings with the Conservatives and the NDP, and they were refused.

00:29:14.820 So I could not support his leadership or get involved with the Conservative Party again,

00:29:22.900 Conservative Party of Canada, because of that.

00:29:25.600 Since he became leader, I have made the comment that it's really, you know, blue suits with a very reddish taint.

00:29:36.580 When the lady from the European Parliament came over here.

00:29:40.940 Christine Anderson, right.

00:29:42.800 Yeah.

00:29:43.440 When she came over here and met with a number of the Conservative MPs, and then was lambasted,

00:29:50.400 and almost using Trudeau's words, Mr. Pagliad, to do that, it showed a sign of poor leadership.

00:29:58.360 This is where he really could have shone brightly amongst those who want to support him and who want him to be Prime Minister.

00:30:08.020 And he failed that test badly, very badly.

00:30:11.280 And then thirdly, I was really disappointed in how we approached CBC by writing Twitter,

00:30:19.020 which only lasted a few days, and Twitter took off the designation of being a government-appointed institution.

00:30:25.600 This was a diversion.

00:30:28.680 What the leader should do, leader of the opposition should do, Mr. Pagliad,

00:30:32.780 is go into the House of Commons tomorrow and put a bill, put a resolution on the floor of the House of Commons,

00:30:40.520 saying that we should get rid of public broadcasting in this country and allow a vote to occur,

00:30:50.080 so that then the people who are Conservative-minded and want to support him can see that it's really serious.

00:30:55.780 The bill or resolution will fail because the NDP and Liberals will vote against it,

00:31:00.860 but we'll clearly see where they are now, and we'll clearly see where the Conservatives are.

00:31:05.980 So people will have a lot more confidence in voting for the Conservative Party if he acted in those ways.

00:31:15.920 The other thing he could do tomorrow, as I said in my Magna Carta,

00:31:19.340 is he could go into the House of Commons and propose a change to the Conflict of Interest Act,

00:31:25.080 whereby no MP who has been found guilty of violating the conflict of interest legislation

00:31:32.100 by either the Conflict of Interest Commissioner or a Court of Law cannot sit in the House.

00:31:38.480 So those are two things he could do tomorrow to really demonstrate to Canadians that he's on their side.

00:31:45.240 Right.

00:31:45.620 And he has not done.

00:31:46.880 Now, your co-plaintiff in the airline mandate case is Maxime Bernier, the leader of the People's Party,

00:31:54.240 and we have quite a strong relationship with Maxime Bernier.

00:31:58.480 We interview him a lot.

00:31:59.360 We find him very interesting.

00:32:00.440 We found him quite principled on a lot of matters, including during the lockdown.

00:32:05.600 And I think we interview him every month or two.

00:32:09.660 And I admire, there's a lot to like about Maxime Bernier, but if I have to be completely,

00:32:15.020 pragmatically, coldly candid, he cannot form the next government.

00:32:21.580 And even when he had a seat, when he had the one seat for his party, he didn't break through.

00:32:28.380 And there were a lot of reasons for that, including they, in my view, illegally kept him out of the leaders' debate.

00:32:34.200 There were a lot of other reasons.

00:32:35.780 Yeah.

00:32:35.920 But, and let me tell you this, as someone who admires Maxime Bernier and generally supports him, I wish it were otherwise.

00:32:43.980 But I do not think that Maxime Bernier can mathematically be the next government.

00:32:48.740 So to me, there's really only two mathematical choices, Justin Trudeau or Pierre Paulyev.

00:32:54.580 And, and those are the two pragmatic choices.

00:32:58.000 And therefore, I will, between those choices, choose Pierre Paulyev.

00:33:01.180 Would you, would you do differently?

00:33:03.520 Yes, I will vote for Maxime Bernier in a flash, because I'm looking long term.

00:33:08.700 We have to change the whole structure of this country.

00:33:12.780 We can do a lot within the existing constitution, like I just proposed, as it relates to CBC, as it relates to tightening up the conflict of interest legislation, as it relates to the political parties publishing their audited financial statements of their party every year, as it relates to sovereignty and signing trade agreements and so on.

00:33:32.660 We can do a lot inside the existing constitution, but we need to do more.

00:33:37.300 And therefore, we have to start somewhere to begin that reform.

00:33:43.080 And so I'm looking long term, and long term, the policies that are on the PPC website today, on Mr. Bernier's website, most align with my views now as a Canadian and as a former first minister.

00:33:58.580 They align most with me.

00:33:59.840 I see what has happened to bilingualism, biculturalism.

00:34:03.720 I see what's happening to being very, very flexible in trade agreements.

00:34:08.980 I see what's happened to our immigration policy, where it hasn't matched our economic policy, and which has gotten out of hand.

00:34:16.980 And so we have to start somewhere.

00:34:19.180 And so in however many years I got left, as long as Mr. Bernier sticks with those principles that he has actually put in writing.

00:34:26.260 And by the way, his expenses are right there on his website as well, his financial statements, which I'm asking the other parties to do.

00:34:34.000 I will begin anew to assist him in getting, look, if he could get three or four seats and to become, to have to be interviewed by the press, to start the ball rolling.

00:34:47.440 I think that would be a really good start.

00:34:50.320 And having him part of the national conversation and his views could really assist.

00:34:56.360 So you start small, you get a couple of seats or whatever, you get a chance to get your ideas out there.

00:35:02.640 And that could lead to over the next two elections to them being a very big political force.

00:35:08.760 So you've got to start somewhere.

00:35:11.220 Canada is broken.

00:35:12.540 Our democracy has been lost.

00:35:15.260 Our charter has been broken.

00:35:16.520 And therefore, this is a long-term project.

00:35:19.800 And we must start now with honesty and real, pure system to begin rebuilding our nation.

00:35:28.740 And I can't think of any better way to do it practically than through the PPC.

00:35:33.680 Well, that's a very passionate case for Maxine Bernier.

00:35:36.760 I should point out that every single poll I see shows the PPC with dramatic strength among young people.

00:35:43.520 It's, you know, typically conservative voters skew older, but the strongest demographics for the PPC are the under 30s, the 18 to 29s, which I just thought I'd mentioned.

00:35:56.180 It was on my mind.

00:35:56.780 And on that note, Mr. Levan, look at the U.S.

00:36:02.300 Coming out of the U.S. just yesterday was a situation where a lot of young people are returning to traditional religion, traditional values.

00:36:12.180 And I think that's why you see the young people in Canada starting to move towards the People's Party of Canada.

00:36:19.560 Well, listen, it's great to catch up with you.

00:36:22.300 And you're a wealth of wisdom about the law, but also historical details like the Atlantic Accord.

00:36:28.740 I'm so glad you mentioned that earlier.

00:36:30.740 I had forgotten about that.

00:36:32.640 I think it's because I'm a Westerner, so it wasn't top of mind for me.

00:36:35.220 It's always a pleasure to catch up with you, a very principled man who's lived our history, and I look forward to talking to you many more times.

00:36:42.360 Thank you very, very much.

00:36:43.700 And if I had to go back into history, I would love to go back and be a part of the jury that listened to Socrates.

00:36:51.920 Wow, the jury that listened to Socrates.

00:36:53.760 That's, you know, for me, I'll tell you the moment in my mind, I would have loved to be in London in the time of Shakespeare when the New World and India were being discovered.

00:37:06.760 London was a global hub.

00:37:08.060 They were writing the King James Version.

00:37:10.500 I would love to have seen what that city was like 400 years ago.

00:37:13.800 I just don't want the plague part of it.

00:37:15.820 Yeah, exactly.

00:37:17.860 And I taught Shakespeare in high school, and that's one of the things that I read almost every day, is something that Shakespeare wrote or one of these plays.

00:37:26.220 So that would be my second choice.

00:37:28.140 Right on.

00:37:29.000 Great to talk with you, my friend.

00:37:30.800 Nice to see you.

00:37:32.300 And we'll look forward to talking to you again soon.

00:37:34.840 Thank you very much, sir.

00:37:36.220 Well, our pleasure.

00:37:37.380 What a good egg, Premier Peckford.

00:37:39.260 Well, that's our show for today.

00:37:41.420 Until tomorrow, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters, to you at home, good night.

00:37:45.820 And keep fighting for freedom.

Rebel News Podcast - April 26, 2023

EZRA LEVANT ｜ Upholding charter rights： An interview with Brian Peckford

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