Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ We're getting to the truth about what's really going on with Russia's war with Ukraine

00:00:00.000 Hello, my rebels. As you may know, we have sent a reporter to Moscow, Russia, which is dangerous

00:00:05.120 from a number of points of view. And I really had a heart to heart with our reporter, Jeremy

00:00:09.600 Lafredo, before we sent him over on the risks he faced, including the potential risk of being

00:00:15.560 arrested. And before we sent him over, we brought him up here to our headquarters to talk to him

00:00:21.140 about how to do this story, how to be careful, not to get in trouble physically through arrest,

00:00:27.040 but also to get in trouble politically. We don't want anyone on either side of this war

00:00:31.360 to say that we are in league with one country or the other, that we don't want anyone to think that

00:00:36.900 we're propagandists or shills. So I want you to listen to the half hour conversation I had with

00:00:42.560 Jeremy Lafredo before we sent him over, because it's where Jeremy and I outline our philosophical

00:00:49.980 principles for how we're going to cover our trip to Moscow. But before I do, let me invite you to

00:00:56.160 become a subscriber to Rebel News Plus. That's the video version of this podcast. Just go to

00:01:00.800 rebelnewsplus.com, click subscribe. It's eight bucks a month, but you get so much content you

00:01:05.820 just won't get anywhere else. This Russian reports is a perfect example of that. All right, 0.97

00:01:11.200 here's today's podcast.

00:01:28.660 Tonight, a heart-to-heart conversation with our reporter filmed before we sent him to Russia.

00:01:34.840 Russia. It's December 8th, and this is the Ezra Levant Show.

00:01:41.080 Shame on you, you censorious bug.

00:01:53.000 Hey, did you see the news? I sent it out by email. We did something a little bit dangerous, 0.80

00:01:58.020 dangerous physically and also dangerous politically. We sent a reporter to Moscow, Russia.

00:02:04.040 Here's his scene setter report that he filmed right when he landed.

00:02:09.100 I'm Jeremy Lafredo for Rebel News, and I just touched down in Moscow, Russia. I'm going to be

00:02:13.060 here all week to try to bring you the truth on the most important geopolitical issue of our time.

00:02:23.840 I'm going to speak to Russians, Ukrainians, soldiers, professors, and I'm going to try to get

00:02:28.180 you guys the truth. Now, between visas, translators, and transportation, this trip was not cheap. And

00:02:33.740 these finances have acted like a financial censorship mechanism that have stopped independent media from

00:02:38.520 coming here and reporting the truth. So you can support my work in Moscow and Rebel News at

00:02:43.080 RussianReports.com. That's RussianReports.com. For Rebel News, I'm Jeremy Lafredo.

00:02:48.380 Well, today we released the first substantive report. I had some questions for him, and he had

00:02:54.360 the same questions. What's it like being an ordinary Russian? Have the sanctions made life

00:02:59.840 miserable? Can they still get affordable groceries? What's the ruble doing? Are they all poor? I didn't

00:03:06.960 know any of these things. What's the price of gas? So one of the first things Jeremy Lafredo,

00:03:11.460 our reporter, did, well, he went to buy some food at a grocery store and fill up with gas. Take a look at

00:03:17.120 this video. We just released it today. I'm Jeremy Lafredo for Rebel News in Moscow, Russia. We've

00:03:21.800 been told that the Western sanctions against Russia are bringing the economy to its knees. Well, one 0.95

00:03:26.300 marker of that is the price of food. Essential goods like cheese, milk, bread, and meat are all markers of

00:03:32.600 how well the economy is doing. Well, I'm going to go to a grocery store in Moscow and see if the

00:03:36.720 shelves are bare and see if things are expensive or not.

00:03:46.400 ...leveled against Russia by the U.S. and its allies are the harshest ever handed down.

00:03:52.220 The Russians are dealing with some hefty international sanctions levied against the

00:03:55.960 country. And their effects are being widely felt in Russia. After touching down in Moscow,

00:04:00.880 the first thing I decided to do was get some food. But I wondered if that would be easy. The New York

00:04:06.100 Times reported that the Western sanctions against Russia are leading to essential goods scarcity.

00:04:10.600 And the Washington Post went as far as saying that Russia is facing, quote, Soviet-era shortages. So I

00:04:16.120 went to a grocery store here in Russia to get the whole story and some food and to experience

00:04:20.380 firsthand the reported scarcity and Soviet-style shortages. The grocery store I went to in Moscow

00:04:25.060 was located inside of a shopping center. And to my surprise, the shopping center was filled

00:04:29.260 with both regular consumer and luxury stores, all stocked. But this doesn't mean that the

00:04:33.220 grocery store has food. These are separate types of goods from different places and different

00:04:36.940 sanctions affect different things. Upon walking in, I was surprised. It seemed like not only a

00:04:41.500 normal grocery store, but it was absolutely full of food. Marilla pasta, which you can get at any

00:04:46.240 grocery store in the States, was stacked so tall that I would need a ladder to reach the linguine.

00:04:50.800 But I remained skeptical because surely the New York Times and the Washington Post

00:04:54.580 wouldn't be lying. And of course, the seemingly full store could be a facade.

00:04:58.600 There could only be one item in front of the shelf and nothing behind it. A classic move.

00:05:02.920 Another question was, how expensive is everything? Russian stores could have food,

00:05:07.240 but with inflation and shortages, items could be so expensive that no one can afford it.

00:05:11.360 First, I went to the milk aisle. Kefir, 1%, 2%, 3%, and even 4% milk. Yogurts and fake dairy

00:05:18.880 alternatives. They had a lot of options. I got a liter of regular milk. It was 89 rubles or $1.41.

00:05:25.180 Then I went for some bread. Nothing fancy, just a loaf of whole wheat. It was 60 rubles or 95 cents.

00:05:31.420 They also had an entire bakery making fresh baked goods. Then I made my way to the meat section. They

00:05:37.100 had beef, chicken, turkey, pork, and even rabbit. I settled for a pound of ground beef, which was

00:05:42.460 175 rubles or $2.78. I then decided to get some eggs. Strangely enough, the eggs were not kept

00:05:50.140 refrigerated, but they did have dozens of choices. I got 10 eggs for 99 rubles or $1.47. Then I decided

00:05:57.820 to get some vegetables for my meat, a container of mushrooms for 79 rubles or $1.25. And then I went

00:06:03.580 to pay for everything. In rubles, of course. The total for milk, eggs, beef, bread, and mushrooms

00:06:08.780 was 499 rubles or $7.92. Surprisingly, it seems the mainstream media is not being entirely truthful

00:06:16.780 in regards to the effects sanctions are having on the prices of essential goods in Russia.

00:06:20.620 Despite my experience, a few people I spoke to explained that the sanctions have had an effect

00:06:25.100 on them in one way or another. This lady from a rural market outside of Moscow is selling produce. 0.96

00:06:30.620 She explained that while most prices have stayed the same, the prices of some foods have actually skyrocketed.

00:06:47.900 And this man, who sells cranberries at the market, spoke to me about the prices of berries.

00:07:00.620 They buy the cookies. In fact, nothing changed. I didn't see the difference. Everything was just as it was,

00:07:06.620 so it stayed in the same place.

00:07:08.380 This young woman told me that the idea that Russian people are suffering from sanctions

00:07:11.740 is simply not true. But the uncertainty of everything has made people more serious

00:07:15.740 about financial planning and financial literacy.

00:07:17.900 Another essential good pretty much all people use is gasoline. The

00:07:47.740 prices of gasoline in the US have skyrocketed since Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The US refuses to

00:07:52.780 buy oil from what they call a belligerent regime. But these policies actually fell hardest on the

00:07:57.180 American people since they're the ones paying more at the pump. So I went to a gas station in Russia. 0.93

00:08:02.220 Gas was about 47 rubles per liter. Converted to US metrics, that's about $2.75 per gallon.

00:08:08.460 I spoke to a man from Moscow, who drives for a living.

00:08:11.020 In the last year, I think the difference is not big. It's about 45 rubles to 48 rubles.

00:08:21.500 That's about 2 rubles. There's a difference between 1 rubles.

00:08:25.100 That's what happens. And it changes. Well, not to say that it's often, but once in 3-4 days,

00:08:33.260 there's a difference between 1 rubles and 2 rubles.

00:08:38.540 For Rebel News in Moscow, Russia, I'm Jeremy Lafredo.

00:08:41.100 Now, what do you think of that video? Would you say that's a pro-Putin video?

00:08:46.140 I don't think it's pro-Putin or anti-Putin. I think it's just a video

00:08:50.140 asking the question, what's it like in Russia? Are the sanctions having a bite?

00:08:55.660 Are ordinary people feeling the pain? I don't know. I thought it was a pretty good test.

00:09:00.220 What's a grocery store like? It looked pretty full to me. And by the way, the prices paid for milk and

00:09:05.740 eggs and other things in Russia, many of them are cheaper than here in Canada. For that,

00:09:10.380 you can blame many things, including that we have marketing boards. So you have expensive eggs and

00:09:15.900 dairy and chicken in Canada no matter what. I think they're actually, I mean, that looked like an

00:09:20.380 amazing grocery store. One of the amazing things about it was it was cheaper there than it is over

00:09:25.340 here. And the ruble, the Russian currency is actually stronger now than at the beginning of

00:09:29.900 the war. So is it propaganda to show that? Or is that just actual, just the facts reporting?

00:09:37.260 I think it's just the facts reporting. Aren't you glad you know that? And doesn't that confuse you a

00:09:41.900 little bit based on what we were told about the sanctions pushing Vladimir Putin to the tipping point?

00:09:48.220 I don't know. I find it confusing. But this is a dangerous mission, not just because there's the

00:09:54.780 risk that a reporter could be arrested, but also that people could say, well, you are just agents

00:10:01.340 for NATO, or you are just agents for Putin, or you're just a propagandist from one side or the other.

00:10:06.620 That's why before we sent Jeremy Lafredo over to Russia, we had a heart to heart with him in our

00:10:13.900 boardroom here at our world headquarters in Toronto. He's based in New York. He came up

00:10:18.220 and it was actually the first time I had met him in person. As you know, we hired a number of people

00:10:21.820 around the world during the lockdown. So we just weren't allowed to travel and weren't allowed to

00:10:26.140 travel here. So Jeremy and I talked and I'm going to play for you about a half an hour of that video,

00:10:32.620 because I want you to see my thinking and his thinking about how to do this trip to Russia

00:10:39.420 right. All right, stick around. I'll come back after the video. Take a look.

00:10:44.860 Jeremy, when you told me you wanted to go to Russia, I thought that's dangerous. That's a risky idea.

00:10:54.060 But I thought about it and I thought maybe that's a great idea. If our motto at Rebel News is telling

00:10:57.740 the other side of the story, I don't think we've heard the real story from Russia.

00:11:01.820 I don't think we've certainly heard from the Russian people. Do they support the war? Do they

00:11:07.260 support Putin? How are they doing economically? Have they heard the Ukrainian case? What's their

00:11:12.300 answer to it? I'm worried about the risks of going to Russia, but I think it could actually be amazing

00:11:17.980 journalism. Yeah, I think that with the most prominent geopolitical strategists in the world

00:11:25.020 all explaining that this could end up in nuclear catastrophe, but there's no independent media on

00:11:31.660 the ground. I think that's a giant problem and something that Rebel News can fix.

00:11:37.340 You know, it's hard to find out what's really going on. I'm very interested in the truth about

00:11:44.060 this war. I believe that there's disinformation on both sides. That's always been a weapon in war,

00:11:50.780 a weapon of war on both sides though. And so I think that to find out what's going on on the ground in

00:11:58.780 Ukraine is probably too dangerous for us to do. You're not a war correspondent. I don't think we have the

00:12:03.660 resources or the know-how to get you onto the battlefield. I don't think that's what we would do.

00:12:08.940 But to send you to Moscow, which is an information battlefield, I think we can do that if we're 0.99

00:12:16.380 careful about how we conduct ourselves, if we're careful that we don't get you arrested, and if we're

00:12:22.860 careful not to fall into traps of reporting on a war in an authoritarian regime. I think even Russia's

00:12:30.620 supporters would acknowledge that it's authoritarian, they have extra legal arrests and imprisonments.

00:12:38.460 We have to be careful that we don't get you arrested, but we also have to be independent enough

00:12:42.140 that we're not just echoing Russian propaganda. It's a very delicate project, but I think we can do

00:12:47.980 it. I think it's delicate, but I think at the same time, if people see that what we're doing is we're

00:12:53.740 putting microphones to the Russian people and we're not editorializing. It's important to know

00:13:01.420 what they believe, whether they support the war, whether they're against the war, what they think

00:13:05.980 of the US, what they think of NATO, whether they are scared that they're going to get drafted. Whatever

00:13:11.500 they might think, it's important to know what that is and show a Western audience because the Russian

00:13:18.060 side, whether it's coming from Russian media or whether it's coming from prominent US journalists,

00:13:24.140 it's been demonized and censored and banned on social media. So we're in a dangerous situation

00:13:29.420 in terms of a political landscape and media landscape. You know, it's hard to go over there.

00:13:35.100 And I think it's, you know, again, that's a weapon of war is making it hard to interact with the enemy.

00:13:41.740 There are no direct flights that I know of between Canada, the United States,

00:13:46.300 or Russia. I think there were in the past. But as far as I can tell, there are none. You have to

00:13:51.420 go through a third country. It's hard to pay for things over there. We wanted to hire a Russian

00:13:57.660 criminal lawyer in case, God forbid, you got arrested. We wanted to find one, get him briefed

00:14:02.940 now, get him ready now. In case, God forbid, you're arrested, we have someone on the ground already.

00:14:07.660 Even paying that lawyer, you can't send money from a Canadian or American bank to a Russian bank.

00:14:14.540 So there's a lot of ways it's difficult to get there. And even in the West here,

00:14:20.300 they make it difficult for us to hear the Russian side of the story. For example, YouTube has deleted

00:14:26.780 Russia Today's channel. And I'm not saying that I would follow Russia Today uncritically. I knew it was

00:14:34.380 government messaging. But I would like to know what the government messaging is. So I know how to,

00:14:40.300 I know what they're thinking about. I know what I might need to rebut or research. I think, I think

00:14:45.260 it is hard to know what's going on. And being on the ground may be the one way you can find out

00:14:53.260 certain facts with your own eyes. Like, I'm curious, what's the mood in Russia? Are young men worried

00:15:00.300 about being conscripted? Is the economy devastated, which you might expect from sanctions or as you're

00:15:06.220 doing well because of oil? Are people afraid to criticize Putin or do they do so and they don't

00:15:12.300 care? I think those things you can only know by being there. Yeah. I mean, the mainstream media,

00:15:16.860 they do lie all the time. Could they be telling the truth right now? Yes, it's possible. So let's go

00:15:23.100 there and let's see what the feeling is like in one of the biggest Russian cities.

00:15:28.780 One of the tools we do a lot of Rebel News, and I know you do it as well,

00:15:32.140 is what we call streeters or man on the street or vox pop. And that's, it's not a sophisticated

00:15:38.220 form of journalism. It's just, let's just talk to normal people or at least people we find on the

00:15:42.220 street who are willing to talk to us. And, you know, there's sometimes a goofy question you can ask

00:15:48.700 or just a quick reaction. The trouble with doing streeters in an authoritarian regime is that people

00:15:53.820 might be afraid to speak on camera because they might fear retaliation of some sort. So I think if you

00:16:01.180 were to send a cameraman to Russia 40 years ago when it was under the Soviet Union,

00:16:07.740 the only people willing to talk to you on camera would probably be Communist Party members who were

00:16:12.540 praising the dictator. So I don't know if that's a function today. If people are so afraid of Vladimir

00:16:21.340 Putin that they would not criticize him on camera, maybe some people would have to be interviewed with

00:16:28.700 the camera not pointing at their face, just pointing at their shoes maybe, or maybe we would have to

00:16:33.180 obscure them. But we have to think, how do we do journalism in Moscow that is so legitimate and

00:16:43.580 objective and just basic, nothing too tricky or fancy, just who, what, where, why, when, basic meat and

00:16:49.260 potatoes journalism that it can withstand scrutiny of anyone, whether they're a pro-Russian shill or a

00:16:57.020 pro-Ukraine shill or someone from NATO or something. Like, I want our journalism to be so, speak for

00:17:04.220 itself honest and so ethical that no matter where, what side people are on in this war, they'll say,

00:17:11.500 that was real journalism and I learned something and I can trust that it was not disinformation.

00:17:16.540 It, that's going to be very tough to do. I think that, um, when we see disinformation right now,

00:17:23.420 it's, you know, it's been through three different organizations. It's, it's, many people have touched

00:17:28.700 it, many different, uh, conflicts of interest. And one of the, um, one of the pluses of being on the

00:17:36.300 street is people can say whatever they want. It's the Russian people who are speaking. So, you know,

00:17:43.340 whether you think that they're lying or whether you disagree with them, it's a fact that this

00:17:48.060 person said this thing. Um, so I think it'll be hard to criticize as being pro-Russia or anti-Russia

00:17:54.380 when we're just letting people speak and I'm not going to editorialize.

00:17:58.380 There's something to be said for citizen journalism and, and every person in the world

00:18:02.540 can be a journalist today. Do you have a smartphone with a camera? Surprise, you're a journalist. I mean,

00:18:07.820 that really is probably more, if you turn your cell phone on, on the streets of Moscow and ask

00:18:13.420 people how they feel about the war, that is more journalistic integrity and more honest and

00:18:18.780 interesting journalism than half of the homogenized, pasteurized, processed journalism going through the

00:18:24.700 big companies that I don't think are allowed to deviate from the official line. And, and I think

00:18:32.300 everyone is against war and I think everyone wants this resolved peacefully. No one more than the

00:18:37.660 Ukrainian people whose countries, you know, has become this battleground. I think this giant proxy 1.00

00:18:42.540 war between the East and the West, um, we don't have the ability to go to Ukraine. So can we go into

00:18:50.460 the heart of the antagonist and, and see is Putin supported? What do his people say? We just don't

00:18:59.100 know that because like, I can't think of a single mainstream media journalist in Canada, the United

00:19:04.060 States or the United Kingdom, who has actually talked to Russians on the ground. A lot are going

00:19:08.460 to Ukraine, but they feel very stage managed. Um, do you know of any journalists have gone to Russia

00:19:14.380 and asked real questions in an unscripted way? No, I don't. And you said, um, Russia today was,

00:19:21.900 was taken off the internet and it's obviously we, we know that Russia today is propaganda,

00:19:27.580 but it's a different scenario and a different political climate when we have professional

00:19:32.300 U.S. journalists who are simply questioning the government narrative regarding this war

00:19:37.340 and they're being, um, criticized and being asked to be investigated by U.S. politicians,

00:19:42.460 um, U.S. intelligence agencies. So yes, obviously we don't want Russia today, but the fact that regular

00:19:48.540 independent journalists are being demonized for just asking questions is, is really, um, disheartening.

00:19:54.380 And I think, um, some of that can be fixed by simply going there and explaining exactly what's,

00:20:00.860 what's the feeling in the air of Moscow. You know, that's one of the tools for stifling

00:20:06.220 any criticism of American policy, criticism of Canadian policy is to call a critic, a disinformation,

00:20:14.380 um, spreader. And in Canada recently, there was a professor at the University of Calgary who did

00:20:20.380 a study. It was not peer reviewed, obviously. And one of his tests for being a Russian agent,

00:20:25.740 I'm not even kidding, was if you sowed distrust in Justin Trudeau and the liberal government.

00:20:32.300 And he literally said the name Justin Trudeau and the liberal government, that's the name of the party.

00:20:37.820 So any dissent, any criticism at all, any opposition, any public interest skepticism of our government

00:20:45.100 would automatically be put in the category of foreign disinformation.

00:20:52.300 They, they actually accused rebel news of that, which is insane.

00:20:56.700 There's no way that you can stop malicious bad faith critics from saying that,

00:21:02.460 but it is my desire that you go to Russia and your journalism is so even handed, so objective.

00:21:09.580 And so just follow the facts wherever they lead. Let people say what they want to say. If they want

00:21:15.500 you to shield their face while they say it, let them, give them that anonymity. It is my goal that

00:21:22.060 you go to Russia and come back with journalism that any fair-minded person can say, that was real journalism

00:21:30.300 from Russia. You're never going to please these professional disinformation accusers.

00:21:36.780 They get paid to make accusations and they will certainly do this because they don't want

00:21:41.420 reporters going to Russia. I do not know what the answers will be to your questions. I don't know

00:21:47.660 if there is why. That's the beauty of it. Yeah.

00:21:50.380 For example, I hear that 100,000 Russians, there's 100,000 casualties in Ukraine. That's a staggering

00:21:57.820 number if it's true. The entire Vietnam War for its entire duration cost 55,000 lives in America,

00:22:05.500 which is a huge number. To double that number in such a short period of time would be an enormous

00:22:11.020 blow. I would have to think that that would touch almost every Russian family. Is that true? Have 1.00

00:22:17.500 people lost friends or loved ones? Are young men worried about being conscripted?

00:22:25.180 I think that, I don't know if we'll ever know the actual casualty count, but I think one way of

00:22:31.900 measuring this war is our mom's grieving. Yeah, anecdotal evidence. Let's go there and collect

00:22:36.940 some. There's other things. I mean, the economy, we were told that the sanctions would break Russia,

00:22:42.620 and I think they've made interaction between Russia and the West harder. One thing I think

00:22:46.780 you can only see by being there is what's business like? Is it prosperous? The ruble has not been

00:22:53.580 shattered because of the sales of oil and gas. How are people getting along? Are they using Chinese 1.00

00:22:58.860 banks? Are there Chinese businesses taking over the American ones that moved out? A lot of American

00:23:03.980 retail companies. I think McDonald's even left. McDonald's was one of the first Russian companies

00:23:08.620 in Russia that tried to liberalize trade. If it's being pulled out now because of sanctions,

00:23:15.260 who took over those McDonald's restaurants? Did some Russian chain? Did the Chinese company?

00:23:19.740 As the West freezes out Russia, has Iran moved in? I don't know. I would like to know. What is a 0.96

00:23:29.340 Starbucks like there? What's a McDonald's like? I think those are small little colorful vignettes

00:23:36.060 that being on the street could show you. That's not interviewing the defense minister or the foreign

00:23:39.740 minister, but that's a little observation that may give us a window into larger issues.

00:23:45.500 I mean, we're told that Western capital has completely pulled out of Russia and they're

00:23:49.420 really hurting. We're told the death count is X and it is the mainstream media. We don't know what to

00:23:57.020 believe. So that's why it's so important to go there and walk around and really see,

00:24:00.540 is there a McDonald's there? Is there a TD bank there? We already know that our banks,

00:24:05.740 my card won't work there. There are sanctions on Western banks. We know that my plane has to go around

00:24:12.300 Ukraine. It's going to take an extra three hours to get to Russia. So we already know that there's

00:24:19.260 policies in place that stop Western companies from behaving like they normally do. So what is that?

00:24:24.940 Has that taken a toll on the Russian people? We'll find out.

00:24:28.860 I think we know the Ukrainian argument. The Ukrainian argument is this was uncalled for, 0.99

00:24:35.740 violent aggression by a foreign country violating the territorial integrity of Ukraine

00:24:39.900 against, um, the Budapest member and them against treaties, against international norms.

00:24:48.540 Um,

00:24:48.780 that what's one of the Ukrainian arguments that this is Russian imperialism. This is Vladimir Putin,

00:24:56.060 the ex KGB agent who wants to seek a greater Russia, uh, a grandiose scheme. Um,

00:25:04.460 those are some of the Ukrainian arguments and I don't think I'm caricaturing them. I think that's

00:25:08.780 some of the language that you see on the Ukrainian side and on the NATO side,

00:25:14.140 that all Ukraine wants is to be free and independent and it needs to defend itself.

00:25:20.060 Those are some of the Ukrainian arguments and I think there's more.

00:25:23.340 I want to see if Russians have heard these arguments. I want to see how they would react to

00:25:28.380 these arguments. Are they persuaded by them? Have they ever heard them before? In Russia, do they get 0.64

00:25:34.140 news from the other side? And do they have any sympathy for the Ukrainian side? Do they think that the

00:25:42.060 war was excessive? So I want to, if possible, I want to put to Russian people the Ukrainian case just to

00:25:49.020 see the reaction. Yeah, of course.

00:25:50.620 I think that would be very interesting. Maybe they've never even heard the Ukrainian case.

00:25:53.900 I know that many Russians, um, well, I'm told, um, that many Russians see, you know, most Ukrainians,

00:26:02.380 uh, who speak Russian as Russian. So like, what does that border mean to Russians? I want to know.

00:26:07.980 And, um, have they heard these arguments, um, that we hear often in the West and what are their

00:26:13.340 feelings about them? You know, there's a lot of complicated things. I don't prefer to be an expert

00:26:18.300 in Ukraine. I know there's parts of Ukraine that are ethnically Russian and that feel an affiliation

00:26:23.340 for Russia. Again, you and I are sitting here in North America and we're discussing something

00:26:28.060 where neither of us have been. And it's hard for us to know we can, we can study the world through

00:26:33.900 the media and through the internet, but there's a blockage here, I think on purpose. And I think

00:26:38.860 it's our mission to find out. Now, one of the things is, and this is one of the very first things I

00:26:42.940 said to you is it's physically dangerous. Our reporters have been arrested probably a dozen times,

00:26:49.260 but we've been arrested in places where there was the rule of law and we just had to get a lawyer

00:26:56.380 and our reporter would be out within hours and we could probably get the charge dismissed because

00:27:01.580 it was overheated police in the moment. I'm never truly afraid for our journalists. We've sent journalists

00:27:07.580 to, uh, partly free countries like Iraq and Morocco before, but we had some sort of safety for them.

00:27:14.780 That's not the case here. There's a prominent American WNBA player who's in prison, hard labor 0.89

00:27:23.180 in Russia right now. And all the diplomatic and political efforts to free her have been to no

00:27:29.020 avail. Legally, she hasn't been rescued. Russia is a different ballgame. If the Russian government

00:27:38.460 thinks that you are, if, if they think you're undermining that country, if they think you're

00:27:44.460 engaging in some sort of sedition, you are beyond the help of us. I mean, if Joe Biden can't free that

00:27:51.260 American prisoner, there's no way that little rebel news can free you. And, and I don't think the 0.98

00:27:58.540 Canadian government would be much help, frankly. So I, I've tried to emphasize to you the personal

00:28:05.660 risk. And I know you don't have a wife and kids. Um, that makes me feel slightly better.

00:28:11.180 And I know you're not going to provoke, but you never know what some local cop takes as a provocation,

00:28:18.540 especially in the state of a war. They might say, who is this American who is here doing journalism

00:28:25.340 to stir up trouble against the leader and against the army? This is unpatriotic. This is treason.

00:28:32.620 Throw them in jail. And there'll be a hearing in a month. Like if that happens,

00:28:36.460 we are pretty much powerless to rescue you. I'm just telling you.

00:28:41.420 Yeah. Um, I'm, I'm hoping that, you know, I'm going to be as, you know, um, neutral as possible

00:28:48.060 and just let Ukrainians speak. And if Ukrainians feel comfortable speaking, then I think I should 0.72

00:28:51.260 feel comfortable with Ukrainians. I think you mean Russians, but we'll talk to whoever we see that.

00:28:56.060 And who knows? It'll be interesting to see what other people are there. I mean,

00:28:58.860 Ukraine and Russia have a lot of, uh, back and forth. I wonder if there's still,

00:29:03.020 I wonder what it's like to be a Ukrainian in Moscow. I wonder what, what other, I mean, 0.76

00:29:07.900 Moscow is a fairly metropolitan. It's an enormous city. There's a lot of expats. That is the place

00:29:13.180 to be if you're a foreigner in Russia. It'll be interesting to see if you've seen the Ukrainians.

00:29:17.340 Yeah, of course. I'd love to talk to them. But I, but I, I know you meant Russians.

00:29:20.060 Yeah. No, what I was saying was, um, if Russians feel comfortable speaking to me,

00:29:26.700 then I, I feel that I should feel comfortable listening to them. And if they, you know,

00:29:31.900 didn't feel comfortable speaking to me, then maybe I shouldn't be around asking questions.

00:29:35.500 Um, but based on the people that we know in Russia that I've made contact with before I went there,

00:29:40.220 it seems like, um, you know, I, I should be allowed to ask questions.

00:29:44.300 You know, if, um, if you go there and come back safely, all of this, we'll have a good chuckle

00:29:49.180 about it. But there is a chance, I don't know if it's 1% or 10% or 20% that you will have trouble.

00:29:56.620 And I just want our viewers to know, and you were part of this,

00:29:59.100 we hired a lawyer, a criminal lawyer in Moscow and explained to him our mission.

00:30:05.420 And he is on standby to help in case God forbid, you get into trouble.

00:30:09.580 We're following Russian rules in terms of getting a visa and applying at the consulate. And you've,

00:30:15.740 you've received that visa. In fact, just yesterday, you were at the Russian consulate in New York

00:30:20.620 and you are approved for this trip. Yeah. I got my visa.

00:30:23.660 And we're following the rules as much as we can. We're not, we're not going to,

00:30:29.420 we're not going as activists. We're going as journalists. So I want viewers to know that we've

00:30:33.500 been very as, as diligent as we can be. And we've even taken that precaution of hiring a local lawyer

00:30:40.860 in case we need one in the middle of the night. We don't have to start our search from scratch.

00:30:45.100 We've got a Russian lawyer in the city who has met you over Zoom and is ready to go.

00:30:51.100 And I just want our viewers to know that because we're not being cavalier.

00:30:54.940 I think it's a, I think it's a risk that you understand. I wrote you a letter before you

00:30:59.260 came to visit me listing every possible danger I could think of, every possible thing that could

00:31:04.140 go wrong. And I told you to talk to family and friends and even to consult outside legal counsel.

00:31:10.380 I just want to hear you say it, that you're comfortable in incurring this risk.

00:31:15.020 I'm definitely comfortable incurring this risk. I think that what will come of it will be really

00:31:19.580 valuable journalism for everybody to see.

00:31:21.820 I think so too. And it's strange that a tiny little company like ours, like we're tiny

00:31:26.460 compared to any other major Western media. And I think the reason we can do this is precisely

00:31:32.060 because we're small. We're not owned by some conglomerate that is worried about getting off

00:31:37.420 side with some other conglomerate. We're sort of impervious to that because we're 100%

00:31:43.420 grassroots sponsored. We were demonetized on YouTube. Like we're only one step away from

00:31:49.340 being given the RT treatment and nuked altogether. I think, I think it's because we're grassroots

00:31:55.100 sponsored that we can do this. If there was some big bank behind us or big, you know, CBS or Disney,

00:32:00.860 there would be no way we could do something so contrary to the official narrative.

00:32:04.780 I mean, many of these, you know, corporations that own our media have,

00:32:11.020 you know, entered the war, essentially. They've said, you know, we're pulling out of Russia.

00:32:15.580 They've backed the government policy on whatever the government says. So there's only independent

00:32:20.940 media left to go there and tell the truth about what's going on, whatever that is.

00:32:24.620 You know, and it's hard to do that because you're going to be demonized by the other guys. Some other

00:32:28.540 journalists will be jealous that you're allowed to go and do real journalism and they're not.

00:32:32.620 Some others will be in some way on, you know, getting a government contract or a bailout. In

00:32:38.060 Canada, most of the media takes government money. I want to talk a little bit about how it's going

00:32:43.180 to happen. So you're flying from New York City through Turkey, I understand. Istanbul to Moscow.

00:32:50.540 That's a fairly long journey. And do you know what the price of that ticket was? It was about

00:32:55.740 $3,000. It wasn't cheap. It wasn't cheap. And then we have a hotel for you in Moscow.

00:33:02.140 And then there's the legal help. And then on the ground, you don't speak Russian.

00:33:06.220 I don't speak Russian.

00:33:07.420 So we have two people who will accompany you. One of them has worked as a journalist there for

00:33:14.620 a foreign broadcaster before. So she's completely fluent in Russian.

00:33:18.700 Yes.

00:33:18.780 Yes.

00:33:19.500 Will help, you know, interpret. If you encounter people who don't speak good English, she'll be

00:33:26.300 she'll be accompanying you, driving you. She has a vehicle. So she'll be driving around the city,

00:33:30.620 which is good because, you know, it's an enormous city. And we also have a cameraman who will be

00:33:36.300 helping. And we're not going with very big conspicuous cameras. We're going to keep it pretty

00:33:41.020 modest. We just don't need to attract extra attention. So in addition to your journey from

00:33:48.620 New York through Istanbul to Moscow, we've got two people that we are hiring. And we've talked to

00:33:53.900 them both over Zoom. And we've gotten to know them as well as you could get to know someone over Zoom.

00:33:58.780 I mean, we have to take them at their face value. But the fixer interpreter, I feel very confident

00:34:05.580 with her because she really, in fact, she was telling us about Vox Pop interviews she did just

00:34:09.900 the other day. So she's very, very familiar with the news culture and how to produce a segment.

00:34:14.860 Yeah, I feel I feel good about that. But those are costs, too. Yeah, of course.

00:34:18.780 Between the fixer interpreter producer, I'm going to call her, and the cameraman, 1.00

00:34:23.980 I think we're looking at about, well, I mean, I don't want to disclose their

00:34:29.740 per diem online. But between the two of them, it's about $4,500, plus the $3,000 for your flight,

00:34:38.540 plus hotel, plus food, plus we're giving you a little bit of spending money. I think the cost of

00:34:43.580 this trip all in, if we don't have to engage the lawyer, and I hope we don't, is going to be about

00:34:49.500 $11,000. And that sounds crazy, just for a one week trip to Moscow. But it's because we have all

00:34:56.220 those parts there. Because we just need a lawyer, and we need an interpreter, and we need someone

00:35:01.420 who drives you around. It's the bare minimum to make everything work perfectly, and as it should.

00:35:06.700 I think it's going to be very interesting. And I mentioned that the reason we're able to do this

00:35:12.540 is because we're independent. I really think that if we were a big, wealthy company for whom flying

00:35:17.980 you to Moscow was no problem. Well, actually, we couldn't do it then, because we would have

00:35:23.740 pain points on our organization that someone would say, you're not really going to Russia.

00:35:30.060 You can't tell that side of the story. I think it's precisely because we are crowdfunded. I mean,

00:35:37.580 you're fairly new to our company, but you know that we're not owned by a corporation. I'm the owner

00:35:41.900 of Rebel News. I'm not independently wealthy, but we crowdfund all our projects.

00:35:47.980 And so I want to ask our viewers if they would crowdfund this. I think we've outlined pretty

00:35:52.380 clearly what we're doing, how we're doing it, the steps we're taking to keep you safe,

00:35:57.420 and God willing, we'll never need that criminal lawyer. It's around $11,000. And the way I hope

00:36:04.940 to pay for that is through a dedicated website we're setting up called RussianReports.com. And what

00:36:11.660 we're going to put there is we're going to put all your videos from Russia so people can go to that

00:36:17.340 one spot and find them all. And if they feel compelled to chip in, whether it's $100 or $50

00:36:23.180 or even more, they can just do that right there on the website and they can donate in different

00:36:27.980 currencies. So that's how we do it. That's our business model. You know, we were demonetized

00:36:32.460 by YouTube, so we don't make money from them. We don't receive government money, obviously,

00:36:37.500 although most Canadian-based media do. So where does it come from? Well, it comes from our

00:36:42.220 grassroots viewers, which is a pain in the neck because we don't have all that free money from

00:36:45.660 YouTube. But that actually set us free. You know, if we were getting ad money from YouTube,

00:36:52.060 maybe we couldn't do this trip. Maybe they would hold it over us and say, well, if you do this trip...

00:36:56.620 Ad money gone.

00:36:57.260 Yeah. I mean, they already nuked us for something we said about Donald Trump a couple of years ago.

00:37:03.260 So they've already pulled the trigger on that. They have nothing more to hold over us.

00:37:07.500 I'm just looking at my notes here. I feel like we covered the basis. We know why this is important.

00:37:16.860 This is a huge war between two superpowers and Ukraine is the place where the battle is happening.

00:37:25.500 I don't believe we're getting the whole story because there's lies on both sides and I want

00:37:28.860 to find the facts. You suggested this trip, which shocked me at first, but the more I thought about

00:37:34.060 it, the more I thought if we can mitigate the dangers, we'll be okay. The number one danger

00:37:38.220 is your safety. And I think we're doing everything we can. And I know you're not going to go looking

00:37:43.420 for trouble. I think the only thing I'm actually worried about is bad faith critics in the West

00:37:52.300 saying, you shouldn't even go over there. You shouldn't even try and find out what Russian 0.82

00:37:57.580 people are thinking. You are a shill for Vladimir Putin because you're even suggesting you'll talk to

00:38:04.460 the other side. I reject that as a bad faith criticism. I believe we can do excellent journalism

00:38:10.060 in Moscow. And we would go to Kiev if I thought we would be safe. Frankly, I know that they have

00:38:16.700 arrested or shut down independent media in Ukraine. I would be more afraid to send you there, 0.98

00:38:22.700 given some of the crackdowns on the media in Ukraine. I'm nervous enough sending you to Moscow.

00:38:29.420 But I believe that you and I, we've probably spoken about this half a dozen times now.

00:38:33.500 And I know you're committed to following the facts wherever they lead and just showing the facts and

00:38:42.700 showing the news, whether that puts Ukraine or Russia in a bad light or a good light,

00:38:48.140 that we're going to show the facts. Russianreports.com. I really think that

00:38:53.900 that website, once the reports start going up, will really be one of the most valuable places on

00:38:59.180 the internet to figure out what's actually happening inside of Russia. I think so. You 0.58

00:39:05.260 know, we talked to our fixer, our journalist who's been working there for 10 years. And she says that

00:39:11.820 she thinks she can connect you to what are sometimes called civil society organizations.

00:39:18.380 Not government agencies, but, you know, a think tank or an independent professor.

00:39:22.860 Sure. Because I, you know, it's great to get grassroots vox pop just from an ordinary person

00:39:28.620 on the street. And that's very useful for taking the temperature of the country, taking the pulse of

00:39:32.940 the country. Is Putin popular? Are people starting to feel like Vietnam and they're just, they want the

00:39:39.580 war over? Or Afghanistan might be the better example for Russia. But if there are institutional critics

00:39:48.060 of Putin, first of all, that would be amazing to learn. Because I don't know if there are any

00:39:54.300 critics of Putin that, who are still allowed to operate. Above ground, yeah. Yeah, I don't know.

00:39:58.220 So we have this preconception of what your trip will be like, doing lots of streeters, as we call them.

00:40:05.900 But again, follow where things lead. And you have two Russians with you, who, one of whom has been

00:40:12.300 doing journalism for a decade, if she can introduce you to an activist, to an independent commentator

00:40:20.700 or think tank, meet with them. Now, maybe that's where you might get in trouble with the authorities,

00:40:25.580 but I think you have to meet with them, especially if they are a critic of the government.

00:40:30.700 And we're doing that just because we want to show the other side of the story.

00:40:34.540 That said, if you can find someone on the government side who's willing to

00:40:38.060 give you an official hearing, take that meeting too, and put to them the most challenging cases.

00:40:43.820 You know, and you can do it, I think, and I know you're sophisticated enough,

00:40:46.700 you can do it in a way that's not attack. You can say, your critics say, the president of Ukraine

00:40:51.740 says, what do you say to that? So it's not even that you're, you're just putting to them the arguments

00:40:55.420 that we hear in America all the time. What do you say to Vladimir Zelensky's point about this?

00:41:02.620 Yes. What do you say? Like, put it to him, if you get an audience with some official of some sort.

00:41:08.940 I don't know if that's going to happen in the week you're going there. We're not trying to get

00:41:11.980 official propaganda. We have enough of that. We want to get real Russia. I'm excited about this.

00:41:20.220 You've got your passport, you've got your visa, you've got your lawyer, you've got your hotel,

00:41:23.340 you've got your fixer and interpreter and cameraman. We've got the website, RussianReports.com.

00:41:28.060 I think we're ready to go. Ready to go. All right. Well, listen, I want to thank you

00:41:34.860 for this mission. I'm excited. I hope that handshake is not our last. I hope that I'll see you

00:41:41.100 in a week or so when you're back. And I think it's going to be an amazing trip. There are a few more

00:41:47.100 things we didn't talk about for security reasons, like how you're going to have the footage and how

00:41:51.580 you're going to get it back to us. I think it's important that we get that footage exfiltrated from the

00:41:57.100 country as soon as possible in case your stuff is seized. And again, I'm not saying it will be.

00:42:02.860 I'm just saying we have to plan for those scenarios. I think this is great journalism in our

00:42:07.980 tradition. You know our motto. Telling the other side of the story. I think this is exactly,

00:42:12.860 we're exactly doing that to the fullest extent. We're risking some say nuclear war right now.

00:42:19.580 Yeah. So let's tell the other side of the story and go there and see what the people think.

00:42:22.620 Yeah. It's incredible to me, the kind of talk from both Putin and. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

00:42:27.340 Talking about nuclear weapons. And you would think that would be the front page news. Whether you're

00:42:32.780 for Russia or Ukraine at all, war between America and Russia would be a mutually assured destruction.

00:42:38.380 Yeah. That's what's kept us safe. That mutual threat has kept us safe for 70 years. And now it's

00:42:47.260 both sides seem to be treating it as cavalier. I do not. Well, Jeremy Lafredo, great to have you here.

00:42:52.460 I do. And I wish you a safe journey. I look forward to your speedy

00:42:55.100 return with excellent journalism. And folks, you can see all of the reports from Jeremy's trip to Moscow on

00:43:02.220 Russianreports.com. And if you feel like this project is worth your support,

00:43:07.980 please chip in whether it's 10 bucks or 50 bucks, because you're not going to find this on CNN. I

00:43:13.660 promise you that you're not going to find it on Canada's CBC state broadcaster. This is

00:43:18.860 a perfect project for a citizen journalist like Jeremy. What do you think of that? Do you think

00:43:24.060 that's fair? I mean, I suppose the safe thing to do is just not go there. The safe thing from Jeremy's

00:43:30.060 point of view, we don't want him to be arrested, although we have a lawyer in Moscow on standby for him.

00:43:35.100 The safe thing is not to get too embroiled with that. As you know, we're already fighting Trudeau's

00:43:40.300 disinformations are because he claims we're Putin's shills. Maybe going to Moscow and asking Russians

00:43:45.980 what they think is somehow passed off as being pro-Russian. I don't think so. I think asking

00:43:51.820 Russians if they like Putin is actually an act of defiance. We just have to make sure that people 1.00

00:43:56.700 aren't answering under duress and saying, oh, yes, I like Putin. I like Putin. Let me put that on the

00:44:01.100 record. But I don't know if that's what it's like. We'll find out in the days ahead.

00:44:05.340 I'm proud of this. And I think it's only the kind of journalism that independent citizen

00:44:09.500 journalists can do. I don't know why the CBC doesn't do it. Maybe because they might be arrested

00:44:14.380 by Putin. Could be. Or maybe they're just too in lockstep with Trudeau's government,

00:44:20.460 which has a very special message track when it comes to Putin. I've never seen Justin Trudeau

00:44:25.500 be so bellicose in his life before. His statements are very warlike, which is ironic given that the

00:44:31.100 sanctions don't really seem to be doing anything against Russia. And as you know, Trudeau lifted

00:44:35.980 the sanctions so that Canadian firms could work on Russia's gas pipeline turbines. They shipped

00:44:43.420 those turbines to Montreal for SNC-Lavalin to work on them. And Trudeau, of course,

00:44:47.580 he would do this for SNC-Lavalin, lifted the sanctions. So I find it confusing.

00:44:52.460 Our goal is to tell the other side of the story, which is just to tell the story, the story that

00:44:57.580 we could find on the streets of Russia. What do people feel about conscription? Do people

00:45:03.180 think that the war's casualties are too high? Do people think that the war is justified? Do they,

00:45:08.780 as sometimes happens here, oppose the war but support the troops? I don't know.

00:45:13.580 And I hazard the statement that you don't know either, because no other journalists are telling us

00:45:19.740 what we're going to do our best to tell the story and to make sure the story can withstand any good

00:45:24.620 faith scrutiny of being objective journalism. You can see all of Jeremy's reports at RussianReports.com.

00:45:31.580 Well, that's our show for today. Until tomorrow, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters,

00:45:37.900 to you at home, good night, and keep fighting for freedom.

00:45:40.940 Katie Davis Court reporting for Rebel News, bringing you the latest insanity coming out of Seattle,

00:45:46.460 Washington, as a taxpayer-funded organization has decided to award non-profits owned by black,

00:45:53.340 indigenous people of color with more than $1.3 million to give their leaders each

00:45:59.580 $60,000 of taxpayer funds to take three-month sabbaticals and vacations.

00:46:05.900 The BIPOC Executive Directors Coalition, a multicultural collaborative of 240-plus

00:46:11.660 non-profit executive directors across Washington state, announced the funding in a press release

00:46:17.020 that states 20 leaders and their organizations will receive $60,000 for three-month sabbaticals to

00:46:23.660 cover salary and benefits, individual sabbatical expenses, and organizational developmental support.

00:46:30.060 In addition, 12 applicants will receive one-month respite awards to cover salary, benefits, and

00:46:35.180 individual expenses. Jody Nishiaka, the co-founder and co-executive director of the BIPOC Coalition,

00:46:42.540 said in the press release that BIPOC leaders were being rewarded with these funds for much-needed rest and

00:46:49.260 restoration in order to heal from multi-generational trauma and years of non-stop working on behalf

00:46:56.700 of their communities to recharge for the work ahead. The release also detailed how the grantees will be

00:47:03.260 spending their paid vacations and sabbatical time. Brenda Rodriguez Lopez from the Washington Immigrant

00:47:09.660 Solidarity Network said,

00:47:11.260 This sabbatical will support me in healing from the trauma I have endured doing this work as an

00:47:16.860 undocumented queer woman of color during the most violent times of our generation. My vision is to 1.00

00:47:23.580 show up for me as I have showed up for others. Jamie Marsh, executive director at Food Empowerment

00:47:29.820 Educational Sustainability Team, will be taking herself on a trip to Mexico and the French Riviera,

00:47:37.180 and when she returns, will be remodeling her living space. Hamdi Adul, the executive director of the

00:47:43.740 African Community Housing and Development, says that she will be using the funding to go on a lavish trip

00:47:50.780 to Mecca and Dubai. Well guys, you can't help but wonder if this is a good use of taxpayer dollars,

00:47:58.780 giving non-profit organizations taxpayer money so they can give their employees three-month-long

00:48:05.100 sabbaticals and paid vacations to anywhere they want in the world and some are even remodeling

00:48:10.860 their own homes. Wow, at the cost of taxpayers. So if you would like to support Rebel News and

00:48:16.540 believe in our mission of telling the other side of the story, please go to rebelnewsusa.com and

00:48:21.740 consider making a donation. We are 100% viewer funded, that way we stay uncorrupted. So again,

00:48:28.060 rebelnewsusa.com. Thank you guys!

Rebel News Podcast - December 08, 2022

EZRA LEVANT ｜ We're getting to the truth about what's really going on with Russia's war with Ukraine

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript