Rebel News Podcast - Free the Two Michaels： If Trudeau won't act, then we will. Here's how.

00:00:00.000 Hey Rebels, today I have a bit of a different story for you.

00:00:02.940 We're going to try and do something about Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor,

00:00:06.860 the two Canadians held hostage in China.

00:00:09.140 And by do something, I mean not just talk about it.

00:00:11.520 Actually, do something about it.

00:00:13.680 At the United Nations, we will do something about it.

00:00:17.640 I'll give you the details, and frankly, I need your help.

00:00:20.260 But before I do, let me ask for your help in another way.

00:00:22.480 Can you please join as a subscriber to Rebel News Plus?

00:00:26.620 That means you get the video version of the show.

00:00:30.140 And a couple other shows, one by Sheila Gunn-Reed, one by David Manzies.

00:00:33.420 You can get all that at rebelnews.com.

00:00:35.060 It's just $8 a month.

00:00:36.160 Or if you buy the whole year, it's only $80.

00:00:38.420 So it's a discount, a pretty healthy discount.

00:00:41.620 And of course, the most important thing is it keeps us going.

00:00:44.920 Because we don't take a dime from the government.

00:00:46.600 You know that.

00:00:47.660 All right, here's today's podcast.

00:00:52.700 You're listening to a Rebel News Podcast.

00:01:00.000 We have a plan to help the two Michaels being held hostage in China.

00:01:08.000 It's July 16th, and this is the Ezra LeVant Show.

00:01:12.980 Why should others go to jail when you're a biggest carbon consumer I know?

00:01:16.680 There's 8,500 customers here, and you won't give them an answer.

00:01:20.320 The only thing I have to say to the government of a wire publisher is because it's my bloody right to do so.

00:01:26.620 Almost 600 days ago, the Chinese dictatorship kidnapped two Canadian citizens, Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor.

00:01:40.300 Justin Trudeau hasn't done anything about it.

00:01:42.440 In fact, he continues to send foreign aid to China, even sending our entire national stockpile of face masks

00:01:49.440 and other personal protective equipment to China for free in the middle of the pandemic.

00:01:54.260 He really is their poodle.

00:01:56.620 There's a level of admiration I actually have for China, because their basic dictatorship is allowing them to actually turn their economy around on a dime.

00:02:10.560 The two Michaels weren't captured in a legal arrest.

00:02:13.840 They were held for the first year and a half without even being charged with a crime.

00:02:18.220 They're being held in brutal conditions in a light, in a room where the lights are never turned off.

00:02:23.580 That's a form of torture.

00:02:24.660 They're being denied visits from Canadian diplomats.

00:02:28.740 China has been crystal clear about what they're doing.

00:02:30.700 They're taking hostages.

00:02:32.140 That's not what G20 countries do.

00:02:34.160 That's what terrorists or pirates or criminals do. 0.99

00:02:38.020 Communist China is acting like a rogue country, like gangsters. 0.89

00:02:42.600 That dictatorship may be producing your high-tech cell phones and computers,

00:02:46.120 but it is still a dictatorship.

00:02:48.340 It still has that 1970s Mao Zedong thuggery in it.

00:02:53.900 They're not even trying to hide it.

00:02:55.600 Chinese dictators repeatedly admit that these two Canadians were seized as a bargaining chip

00:03:00.500 to force the release of an accused Chinese criminal in Canada.

00:03:05.100 Meng Wanzhou, the CFO of the huge Chinese tech company called Huawei,

00:03:08.480 she was arrested in Vancouver and is being extradited to the U.S. to face charges of fraud.

00:03:14.920 Meng, of course, is out on bail.

00:03:16.340 She's living the high life in Vancouver, a wonderful city where she's free to go out and about,

00:03:21.160 and has the very best lawyers that her billions can buy. 1.00

00:03:24.280 So far, she's lost her first round in court.

00:03:27.260 A fair judge in an independent legal system said that the extradition hearing can proceed.

00:03:33.660 But the Chinese dictators want her sprung out of jail before the trial is even over. 0.99

00:03:38.600 It's a tit-for-tat, say the Chinese. 0.99

00:03:40.460 It's an admission that the two Michaels didn't do anything wrong.

00:03:43.760 They're just hostages, bargaining chips.

00:03:46.900 So what have we done as a country in response to this barbaric behavior by China? 0.97

00:03:51.300 This is hostage-taking, kidnapping.

00:03:55.060 Have we kicked out Chinese diplomats in protest?

00:03:58.260 Have we sent home some of the thousands of children of corrupt Communist Party of China officials

00:04:03.480 who send their kids to attend Canadian universities,

00:04:06.620 taking up spaces otherwise available to Canadian citizens?

00:04:09.360 Have we kicked them out?

00:04:10.920 Have we put any tariffs on Chinese imported goods?

00:04:14.480 Have we even just used our words to condemn them?

00:04:17.780 No, no, no, and no.

00:04:19.560 The opposite, actually.

00:04:22.300 We are completely compliant and submissive.

00:04:24.440 Trudeau is even giving more foreign aid to China,

00:04:27.280 including a bizarre financial grant to the Wuhan Virology Lab.

00:04:32.080 I'm not kidding.

00:04:33.540 Is there nothing China can do that Trudeau won't just shrug off? 0.58

00:04:37.820 It's humiliating, of course.

00:04:39.260 It's un-Canadian. 0.96

00:04:40.360 And most importantly, it's not working.

00:04:41.900 It's not getting the two Michaels back.

00:04:43.820 In fact, the Chinese fake legal system, 0.98

00:04:45.880 it's all predetermined by the Communist Party over there.

00:04:48.260 They've ratcheted up the propaganda war,

00:04:51.160 recently charging the two Michaels with spying.

00:04:54.760 It's world news.

00:04:55.520 Here's the BBC story.

00:04:56.680 And yet, still, Trudeau does nothing.

00:05:00.040 No sanctions.

00:05:01.140 No diplomatic expulsions.

00:05:03.420 In fact, Trudeau is actually sending our pandemic benefits

00:05:05.940 to those Chinese Communist Party children I talked about,

00:05:09.240 the ones who attend school in Canada.

00:05:11.040 They're not Canadian citizens, 1.00

00:05:12.420 but they're getting that Canadian welfare check,

00:05:15.320 that weekly cash gift.

00:05:18.920 Maybe Donald Trump could help us.

00:05:21.240 He's put a big premium on getting Americans back from around the world.

00:05:24.400 He's repatriated around 40 American citizens at great cost.

00:05:29.420 It seems to be very important to him.

00:05:31.220 China would never dare to take an American hostage with Trump in charge.

00:05:35.660 They know Trump would punish them dearly.

00:05:37.260 So if Trudeau doesn't have the courage himself,

00:05:39.680 maybe he could borrow some of Trump's courage?

00:05:43.480 Well, Trump really wanted something from Trudeau recently.

00:05:46.760 He wanted Trudeau to come down to Washington,

00:05:49.100 along with the Mexican president,

00:05:50.620 to sign the revised NAFTA renegotiated treaty.

00:05:55.080 Now, the Mexican president came up,

00:05:56.620 but Trudeau just refused to come.

00:05:59.500 He said he was too busy.

00:06:00.920 I'm serious.

00:06:01.480 That's what Trudeau said.

00:06:02.600 Trudeau, who hasn't left this house for months,

00:06:04.740 except for the odd photo op,

00:06:06.240 he's too busy.

00:06:08.220 Trump really wanted Trudeau at that meeting for some reason.

00:06:10.900 He proceeded with just the Mexican president,

00:06:13.060 and he made a proud little video of the meeting.

00:06:15.880 I'm sure Trump was irritated with the fact that Trudeau skipped out with no good reason.

00:06:20.160 But imagine if instead Trudeau had gone and said,

00:06:22.660 all right, Mr. President,

00:06:23.800 I'm here for your photo op,

00:06:25.440 and I'll do it with a smile,

00:06:26.620 but can you do me a favor in return?

00:06:28.580 Can you please phone President Xi Jinping right now while I'm here

00:06:32.900 and tell him to release the two Michaels?

00:06:35.500 By the way,

00:06:36.100 they were kidnapped because we Canadians arrested Meng Wanzhou

00:06:39.900 to extradite her to America,

00:06:42.420 so maybe you can help us out since we're sort of paying the price for that.

00:06:45.420 And I bet if Trudeau wasn't snarky about it,

00:06:48.100 and if he asked in a genuine and maybe even a complimentary or flattering way,

00:06:52.480 I bet Trump would have done it.

00:06:54.640 But Trudeau didn't.

00:06:55.820 And so the two Michaels remain in prison.

00:06:58.840 So nothing.

00:06:59.840 It'll soon be 600 days in prison.

00:07:02.600 So we've got an idea.

00:07:06.220 There's a great Canadian human rights law scholar.

00:07:10.380 He used to teach constitutional law.

00:07:12.480 He's been a lawyer.

00:07:14.040 And most importantly for our purposes,

00:07:15.840 he championed the case of the Falun Gong,

00:07:18.780 who were persecuted by the Chinese Communist Party.

00:07:21.500 He worked with a member of Parliament named David Kilgore

00:07:24.920 to investigate and expose China's horrific practice of forcibly harvesting human organs

00:07:31.140 from live prisoners, including Falun Gong political prisoners.

00:07:34.780 They would cut those organs out of people and sell them to China's Communist Party officials 0.78

00:07:40.100 or even foreign buyers.

00:07:41.120 David Matus is the name of the lawyer who exposed that and who told the world.

00:07:47.780 Well, we've asked Professor Matus, who knows about China and Chinese prisons and human rights law in the UN.

00:07:53.720 And we asked him what we could possibly do to help the two Michaels.

00:07:57.160 What we could do.

00:07:59.420 I mean, we're not in government.

00:08:00.840 We're just citizens who wish something would be done.

00:08:04.660 Well, Matus had an idea.

00:08:06.740 Here, watch my recent interview with him.

00:08:08.680 Professor, based on your work scrutinizing China,

00:08:13.940 your lifelong dedication to civil rights,

00:08:17.280 and your interest in Canadian politics,

00:08:20.840 our mutual friend, our lawyer Aaron Rosenberg,

00:08:23.960 reached out to you to discuss how we could perhaps work with you

00:08:28.820 on the troubling case of the two Michaels,

00:08:31.960 Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor,

00:08:34.060 who have been in illegal detention in China for a year and a half.

00:08:39.580 Can you explain to our viewers

00:08:41.620 what legal steps you think we can take,

00:08:46.880 given that we don't have standing as the family or the two men,

00:08:51.020 given that we're not the government of Canada,

00:08:52.940 and given that China is in some ways a rogue state,

00:08:57.140 what could we do legally about what is really a hostage-taking?

00:09:04.180 The opportunities for dealing legally

00:09:07.220 with Chinese violations of international human rights standards

00:09:11.520 is relatively limited

00:09:13.280 because China is not a signatory to many human rights treaties.

00:09:19.060 And the ones where it does sign on to,

00:09:22.380 like the Convention Against Torture,

00:09:24.040 it tends to not sign on to the optional complaints mechanisms

00:09:28.320 or the international legal disputes mechanisms.

00:09:32.180 There are some recourses nonetheless,

00:09:35.020 and a couple of those are through the United Nations Human Rights Council thematic mechanisms.

00:09:48.220 What the United Nations Human Rights Council has done

00:09:51.620 is set up a number of thematic mechanisms,

00:09:55.180 rapporteurs, working groups,

00:09:56.640 dealing with specific human rights issues.

00:10:00.140 There's a rapporteur on torture,

00:10:03.140 there's a working group on disappearances,

00:10:05.420 there's a working group on arbitrary detention,

00:10:07.880 and so on,

00:10:08.560 and there's dozens of them.

00:10:11.000 And these thematic mechanisms,

00:10:13.680 they're not treaty-based,

00:10:15.620 they're just council-based,

00:10:17.740 and so they have jurisdiction over the whole world,

00:10:20.860 including China,

00:10:22.000 whether,

00:10:22.740 and there's no agreement necessary

00:10:24.540 from states of the United Nations

00:10:27.020 for these mechanisms

00:10:29.240 to deal with human rights in those countries.

00:10:31.020 and so these mechanisms can

00:10:35.800 and have in the past dealt with China.

00:10:38.260 And I was dealing, for instance,

00:10:39.700 with the UN rapporteur on torture

00:10:42.620 and the UN rapporteur on religious intolerance

00:10:46.060 about this issue of organ transplant abuse in Falun Gong,

00:10:50.520 and also with the UN Committee Against Torture,

00:10:54.460 because China is a signatory to the Convention Against Torture,

00:10:58.760 also with the Universal Periodic Review,

00:11:01.020 at the UN Human Rights Council,

00:11:02.560 because the Universal Periodic Review,

00:11:05.160 as the name indicates,

00:11:06.200 is universal,

00:11:07.220 and China comes up for review every few years,

00:11:10.940 and then any state can raise

00:11:12.680 any human rights concern it wants

00:11:15.060 during the Universal Periodic Review.

00:11:17.980 When it comes to the Universal Periodic Review

00:11:21.760 or the Convention Against Torture,

00:11:23.920 we are dealing with periodicity.

00:11:27.280 We are dealing with events

00:11:29.760 which occur every so often.

00:11:31.480 But when it comes to the thematic mechanisms,

00:11:34.620 they're continuously functioning.

00:11:36.620 They report to the Human Rights Council every year,

00:11:40.060 and they can take complaints at any time or petitions.

00:11:45.940 Now, these human rights mechanisms do have complaints

00:11:49.720 or petition options,

00:11:52.800 and the petitions are open to everybody.

00:11:56.340 They're open to states,

00:11:58.140 they're open to NGOs,

00:12:00.160 and, of course,

00:12:03.940 they're open to the victims and their families.

00:12:05.880 But consent is not necessary

00:12:08.780 of the families or the victims.

00:12:11.880 I mean, obviously,

00:12:12.660 in some situations,

00:12:14.460 the consent of the victims is impossible

00:12:17.340 where they're disappeared

00:12:18.320 or maybe arbitrarily executed.

00:12:21.520 And the families may be intimidated,

00:12:23.680 which is often the case

00:12:25.080 in China,

00:12:27.520 where the Communist Party makes the point

00:12:30.620 of not just intimidating their target,

00:12:33.160 but everybody in their network

00:12:34.560 to try to get at their target.

00:12:36.960 And so often the only available recourse,

00:12:40.660 which is true, really,

00:12:42.280 of my dealing with Falun Gong,

00:12:44.640 is an outsider

00:12:45.320 who has no connection to China

00:12:48.520 and no point of pressure.

00:12:50.420 I mean,

00:12:50.780 I'm not going to lose any business with China

00:12:53.160 by doing this sort of thing

00:12:54.260 because I don't have any business with China.

00:12:56.440 And so that's the system.

00:12:59.740 It is a system of complainer petition

00:13:03.020 by NGOs or somebody like Rebel News.

00:13:07.060 They can make such a complainer petition

00:13:09.840 and then the thematic mechanism

00:13:13.940 will deal with it.

00:13:14.980 Well, Professor,

00:13:15.920 we would like to do that

00:13:17.700 because we,

00:13:19.040 like so many Canadians 0.91

00:13:20.080 and others around the world,

00:13:21.060 have watched what we perceive

00:13:22.980 to be inaction

00:13:24.140 on the part of the Canadian government.

00:13:25.820 There's the odd, gentle statement,

00:13:28.600 but there's been no diplomatic repercussions,

00:13:31.600 no sanctions,

00:13:32.460 no deported diplomats,

00:13:34.340 no trade,

00:13:35.480 you know,

00:13:37.080 consequences.

00:13:38.560 I think that the fact

00:13:41.040 that those two men

00:13:41.820 are still in detention

00:13:42.560 a year and a half later

00:13:43.520 says everything we need to know.

00:13:45.860 Now,

00:13:46.100 I want to tell our viewers

00:13:47.860 that you did take steps

00:13:50.400 to reach out to the family

00:13:52.020 to get their thoughts

00:13:54.700 on this process,

00:13:56.540 to invite them to participate,

00:13:58.520 to invite them

00:13:59.220 to receive updates.

00:14:01.420 What have you heard back,

00:14:03.300 if anything,

00:14:04.440 from the families

00:14:05.680 after you emailed

00:14:07.400 and reached out to them

00:14:08.620 about our proposed steps?

00:14:11.720 Well, yes,

00:14:12.480 that's true.

00:14:13.400 There was a communication

00:14:14.680 to the families

00:14:15.340 because we did have

00:14:15.980 contact information

00:14:17.000 telling them that we,

00:14:17.900 well,

00:14:19.180 Rebel News was planning

00:14:20.040 to do this,

00:14:21.200 that we would keep them

00:14:22.220 in touch.

00:14:22.760 We wanted to inform them.

00:14:24.540 We invited them

00:14:25.740 to participate

00:14:26.960 if they wanted to participate.

00:14:28.940 We haven't heard back

00:14:29.860 from them since.

00:14:30.800 The communication

00:14:31.320 is relatively recent,

00:14:32.840 so I don't know

00:14:35.220 if that tells us

00:14:36.340 anything yet

00:14:37.120 because very often

00:14:38.140 people are slow

00:14:41.320 in communications

00:14:41.980 and also,

00:14:44.080 I assume,

00:14:44.560 they get a lot of stuff.

00:14:45.460 But in any case,

00:14:48.840 we're giving them

00:14:52.000 an option

00:14:52.500 of something

00:14:53.040 they may want to do,

00:14:54.580 but they don't have to answer

00:14:56.420 and their non-answer is,

00:15:00.100 there is no requirement

00:15:01.420 for them to answer

00:15:02.260 for the UN system

00:15:03.120 to become engaged.

00:15:04.880 And I can imagine

00:15:05.620 that given the thing

00:15:06.920 they care about most,

00:15:08.760 these people

00:15:10.560 are still in grave jeopardy.

00:15:13.040 They most likely,

00:15:14.240 I'm trying to put myself

00:15:15.060 in their shoes,

00:15:15.760 they most likely

00:15:16.480 would not want

00:15:17.780 to be seen

00:15:18.880 as being personally

00:15:20.680 antagonistic

00:15:21.760 to the government

00:15:23.240 of China.

00:15:24.120 So even if they were

00:15:26.860 to reply,

00:15:28.200 it would be under

00:15:29.140 a form of duress.

00:15:30.180 It would almost be

00:15:31.220 like asking a hostage,

00:15:33.920 do you like,

00:15:35.080 do you want us to help?

00:15:36.440 I mean,

00:15:37.180 but I'm glad you did

00:15:38.420 reach out to them

00:15:39.160 and of course

00:15:39.600 keep us posted

00:15:40.280 what they say.

00:15:40.980 tell our viewers,

00:15:43.520 what would the form

00:15:44.660 of a complaint be?

00:15:46.340 You mentioned

00:15:46.820 that there are

00:15:47.400 these thematic groups

00:15:49.960 at the UN Human Rights Council.

00:15:52.200 Would it be

00:15:52.960 the form of a letter?

00:15:54.760 Is it a formal application,

00:15:56.580 a formal report?

00:15:57.280 What would it look like

00:15:58.820 what you would prepare

00:16:00.060 as a lawyer?

00:16:01.600 You would refer

00:16:02.260 to certain principles

00:16:03.300 and bring facts

00:16:04.340 to the attention

00:16:05.100 of the UN?

00:16:06.060 Is it just a letter?

00:16:08.620 The UN website

00:16:10.300 actually tells you

00:16:12.320 what they want

00:16:13.060 and they ask

00:16:15.820 for specific

00:16:16.780 types of information.

00:16:19.020 Obviously,

00:16:19.740 what they want

00:16:20.220 is as much detail

00:16:21.220 as possible

00:16:21.800 because often

00:16:24.080 the problem is

00:16:26.340 that when people

00:16:28.860 make complaints,

00:16:29.480 it's difficult

00:16:30.000 to know exactly

00:16:30.720 what they're talking about.

00:16:32.100 So names, dates,

00:16:34.240 times, places,

00:16:35.020 as much detail

00:16:37.720 about the specific

00:16:38.660 violation

00:16:39.480 as you could possibly get.

00:16:42.160 They'd be interested

00:16:43.220 in exhaustion

00:16:43.940 of remedies,

00:16:45.460 not in terms of Canada

00:16:47.460 but in terms of China,

00:16:48.620 like what has been done

00:16:51.460 or could be done

00:16:52.400 in China

00:16:54.060 to alleviate

00:16:55.540 the plight

00:16:55.980 of these people.

00:16:57.660 They'd be interested

00:16:58.660 in other remedies

00:16:59.720 that are being sought

00:17:00.720 that might be useful

00:17:02.300 either in the UN system

00:17:04.360 or anywhere else

00:17:05.560 around the world.

00:17:06.980 They'd be interested

00:17:07.980 in how the particular

00:17:09.860 complaint fits

00:17:10.700 within the mandate

00:17:11.480 of the theme mechanism

00:17:12.880 to which the complaint

00:17:13.720 is being addressed.

00:17:15.100 Those are the sorts

00:17:16.240 of things

00:17:16.740 that the complaint

00:17:18.000 would address.

00:17:18.700 I have a question

00:17:21.120 for you

00:17:21.540 and it would touch

00:17:22.400 on anything

00:17:22.960 of the United Nations.

00:17:24.120 China

00:17:24.460 is very influential

00:17:26.560 of the UN.

00:17:27.520 It runs four agencies

00:17:29.400 and effectively

00:17:30.160 controls a fifth.

00:17:31.620 We saw their interference

00:17:32.900 recently

00:17:33.400 with the World Health

00:17:34.340 Organization.

00:17:36.320 What is the ability

00:17:38.380 of China

00:17:39.120 simply to veto

00:17:40.420 or crush

00:17:41.720 or shut down

00:17:43.120 or summarily dismiss

00:17:44.800 something that criticizes it?

00:17:46.620 Because the UN

00:17:47.300 is not friendly

00:17:48.260 to democratic activists

00:17:50.140 who ask pesky questions

00:17:51.620 like you will do.

00:17:55.780 What do you think

00:17:57.100 China will do 1.00

00:17:58.660 in reaction

00:17:59.460 to our legal complaint?

00:18:04.740 Well, as I said,

00:18:06.120 typically what happens

00:18:06.880 with these complaints

00:18:07.700 is that the rapporteur

00:18:10.700 will send the complaint

00:18:12.140 to the foreign government

00:18:13.340 for response

00:18:14.300 and then in the report

00:18:16.600 afterwards,

00:18:18.680 typically what happens

00:18:20.480 is that the rapporteur

00:18:22.980 will put in the complaint

00:18:25.160 to report on the complaint

00:18:26.260 and report on the response

00:18:27.400 and may draw some concluding

00:18:29.500 or may draw some observations

00:18:31.220 based on it.

00:18:33.480 And my experience is,

00:18:35.720 at least with some

00:18:37.620 of the other times

00:18:38.420 I've dealt with the system,

00:18:39.480 is the exercise is useful

00:18:41.420 even if when you're dealing

00:18:43.520 with China

00:18:44.180 what you get back

00:18:45.140 is nonsense.

00:18:49.020 Because if I were to write

00:18:50.720 to the government

00:18:51.200 of China directly

00:18:52.160 and say,

00:18:52.660 I don't like what you're doing

00:18:53.560 with the two Michaels,

00:18:54.580 they'd probably just ignore it.

00:18:56.980 But with the UN system,

00:18:59.800 although they may generate

00:19:01.240 nonsense in response,

00:19:02.560 they feel they can't ignore it

00:19:03.920 so they will reply.

00:19:06.220 And a nonsensical reply

00:19:08.700 from the government

00:19:10.200 of China

00:19:10.720 serves its own purpose

00:19:12.340 because it becomes possible

00:19:14.220 to point out

00:19:15.360 how nonsensical it is.

00:19:17.020 And so, for instance,

00:19:18.100 with this organ transplant abuse,

00:19:19.980 we were concerned about

00:19:21.180 the government of China

00:19:22.440 was saying,

00:19:22.940 look at,

00:19:23.580 you know,

00:19:23.980 they were boasting,

00:19:24.720 look at how big

00:19:25.700 our transplant numbers are

00:19:26.840 trying to show

00:19:27.420 they're technologically

00:19:28.300 head in transplants.

00:19:30.000 And so then

00:19:32.480 the UN rapporteur said,

00:19:34.980 well, okay,

00:19:35.740 you've got these

00:19:36.220 big transplant numbers,

00:19:37.380 where do the organs come from?

00:19:39.820 And the response to that was,

00:19:41.340 we never said

00:19:42.020 our transplant numbers

00:19:42.980 were big,

00:19:43.840 which of course

00:19:44.820 they had said

00:19:45.480 and it was posted

00:19:46.240 on their internet sites

00:19:47.300 at the same time

00:19:48.400 as they were denying

00:19:49.120 they said it.

00:19:50.400 So, I mean, 0.80

00:19:51.320 it was just such obvious nonsense

00:19:52.800 that it became

00:19:53.500 another point of attack.

00:19:55.880 And so,

00:19:57.460 I would say

00:19:58.640 that exercise

00:19:59.820 I mean,

00:20:01.140 obviously didn't stop

00:20:02.100 the abuse

00:20:02.540 and it still continues.

00:20:03.740 It just added

00:20:05.220 to the weight

00:20:05.880 of the argument

00:20:06.800 that we had

00:20:07.460 and gave us

00:20:07.980 an additional reason

00:20:09.960 why our position

00:20:11.640 was strong

00:20:12.260 because,

00:20:12.740 I mean,

00:20:13.140 if the government

00:20:14.740 in China

00:20:15.280 in response

00:20:16.020 to a well-reasoned argument

00:20:17.440 can answer

00:20:18.260 only nonsense,

00:20:19.300 it must be

00:20:20.800 that they don't have

00:20:21.740 a good answer

00:20:23.220 if all they can give

00:20:24.100 is a bad answer.

00:20:25.660 Well,

00:20:26.300 so that's the goal here

00:20:28.100 is to write

00:20:29.300 a complaint

00:20:30.040 that properly

00:20:31.380 marshals the facts

00:20:32.800 and the law

00:20:33.340 and shows

00:20:33.920 what China's doing 0.87

00:20:34.820 and at the very least

00:20:36.440 compel them

00:20:37.160 to give,

00:20:38.280 I guess it's like

00:20:39.000 question period

00:20:39.780 in Parliament

00:20:40.380 that way.

00:20:41.340 You don't really

00:20:42.260 get a good answer

00:20:43.080 most of the time

00:20:43.960 but sometimes

00:20:45.100 the absurdity

00:20:45.900 of the answer

00:20:46.520 is telling in itself.

00:20:48.220 So that's our goal here.

00:20:50.120 Write a letter

00:20:51.100 to bring attention

00:20:52.000 to this

00:20:52.540 and smoke out

00:20:54.220 China's answers 0.92

00:20:55.660 and maybe

00:20:56.520 use those

00:20:57.060 to contradict

00:20:57.700 China

00:20:58.220 or to show

00:20:59.560 how unlawful

00:21:01.800 they are.

00:21:02.220 That's our goal.

00:21:03.020 Is that correct?

00:21:04.980 Yes,

00:21:05.280 I would agree with that.

00:21:06.180 I mean,

00:21:06.400 I think question period

00:21:07.220 is a good analogy.

00:21:08.300 I don't mean to suggest

00:21:09.360 that the government

00:21:10.000 is anything like

00:21:12.580 the government

00:21:13.000 of China

00:21:13.500 but otherwise

00:21:15.000 I think it's

00:21:15.700 a good analogy.

00:21:17.120 Well,

00:21:17.220 what do you think?

00:21:18.620 The plan is simple

00:21:19.820 and small

00:21:20.520 but I think

00:21:21.000 it's better than zero,

00:21:22.080 better than nothing,

00:21:22.980 Trudeau's approach.

00:21:24.440 Draft a formal complaint

00:21:25.680 about how the two Michaels

00:21:26.480 are being mistreated

00:21:27.360 by China.

00:21:28.980 File it with the

00:21:29.620 special rapporteurs

00:21:31.080 at the UN's

00:21:32.060 Human Rights Council.

00:21:33.360 Make China answer it 1.00

00:21:34.920 and use their answer

00:21:36.360 politically and diplomatically

00:21:37.480 to name and shame China

00:21:39.440 as breaking

00:21:40.320 international law,

00:21:42.160 breaking international norms.

00:21:43.320 They hate that.

00:21:43.900 They don't like losing face.

00:21:46.180 We have a few other ideas too

00:21:47.740 but the main thing

00:21:48.580 is to do something,

00:21:49.940 something that the world

00:21:51.060 will at least see

00:21:51.940 and hear

00:21:52.580 not the total

00:21:53.760 silent surrender

00:21:54.780 that Trudeau is doing.

00:21:56.700 Will this free

00:21:57.480 the two Michaels?

00:21:58.860 Probably not.

00:22:00.560 Will it bring their plight

00:22:01.560 to a wider audience?

00:22:03.580 You bet it will.

00:22:05.200 Will we hopefully

00:22:06.320 spur actual politicians

00:22:07.900 to do something more?

00:22:09.060 Maybe even to take over

00:22:09.940 this project?

00:22:11.440 I hope so.

00:22:12.840 In any event,

00:22:13.600 we're just going to do it.

00:22:15.460 I just feel like

00:22:16.220 we have to.

00:22:17.620 If you want to help,

00:22:18.520 please do.

00:22:19.000 We're paying

00:22:19.520 Professor Madis' fee

00:22:20.640 for his legal work.

00:22:22.980 We'll file a complaint

00:22:24.020 when it's ready

00:22:24.540 which should be soon.

00:22:26.400 And when the time is right,

00:22:27.580 we will actually go

00:22:28.420 to Geneva, Switzerland

00:22:29.700 where the UN Human Rights Council is

00:22:31.580 and maybe make a bit

00:22:32.640 of a fuss about this too.

00:22:34.840 I do need your help, please.

00:22:36.480 I've signed a retainer agreement

00:22:37.840 with Professor Madis

00:22:38.700 to cover his fees

00:22:39.880 and his travel costs

00:22:40.920 if we go to Geneva.

00:22:41.740 If you think this is a good idea,

00:22:44.400 please help me out

00:22:45.280 by going to

00:22:46.000 freethetomichaels.com

00:22:49.260 freethetomichaels.com

00:22:50.580 I will post updates

00:22:51.980 at that website

00:22:52.800 when the legal complaint

00:22:53.820 is ready.

00:22:54.400 We'll publish the legal complaint

00:22:55.840 itself.

00:22:56.240 You can read it for yourself.

00:22:57.960 And all of our follow-up work

00:22:59.480 including hopefully

00:23:00.200 the trip to Geneva itself.

00:23:01.780 This is a small step

00:23:03.080 but that's more than anything

00:23:05.260 Trudeau has done.

00:23:06.660 If you believe in

00:23:07.620 standing up to China 0.98

00:23:08.500 and calling out their bullying

00:23:09.980 and standing up

00:23:11.040 for Canadian citizens,

00:23:12.220 please go to

00:23:12.740 freethetomichaels.com

00:23:15.420 and lend a hand.

00:23:16.700 Thanks.

00:23:28.540 Welcome back.

00:23:29.360 Well, it wasn't too long ago

00:23:30.460 that we spoke to our next guest.

00:23:32.920 His name is Philip Layton.

00:23:33.920 He's a former law school dean

00:23:35.040 and is the author of a book

00:23:36.820 about freedom of speech

00:23:38.140 in Canada

00:23:38.960 called Nothing Left to Lose

00:23:41.700 An Impolite Report

00:23:43.360 on the State of Freedom in Canada.

00:23:46.260 It was a very interesting discussion

00:23:47.400 and was well received

00:23:48.200 by our viewers

00:23:48.880 but who knew

00:23:50.340 that it would be so timely

00:23:52.780 with the wave of

00:23:54.120 cancel culture mobs

00:23:56.420 that we've seen since

00:23:58.300 that interview.

00:23:59.480 I think, for example,

00:24:00.780 the case of Barry Weiss

00:24:01.980 a liberal journalist

00:24:03.700 who was brought into

00:24:06.260 the New York Times

00:24:07.240 to provide a little bit

00:24:08.040 of diversity

00:24:08.800 of opinion

00:24:10.080 and was thrown out,

00:24:11.720 spat out

00:24:12.160 for precisely that reason.

00:24:14.380 Technically,

00:24:15.040 she resigned

00:24:15.920 but only because,

00:24:17.840 as she described

00:24:18.600 in a powerful letter,

00:24:20.060 she was targeted

00:24:21.420 by others

00:24:22.420 within the Times

00:24:23.420 with attacks,

00:24:24.780 personal attacks,

00:24:25.540 even anti-Semitic attacks,

00:24:26.780 for daring not to tell

00:24:28.660 the woke,

00:24:30.380 intersectional leftist

00:24:31.840 take on everything.

00:24:34.460 And so we brought back

00:24:35.280 our guest,

00:24:35.980 Philip Slayton,

00:24:37.040 to talk about

00:24:37.680 the latest

00:24:38.560 in cancel culture.

00:24:40.140 He joins us now

00:24:40.860 via Skype.

00:24:42.000 Philip,

00:24:42.440 what do you make

00:24:43.240 of the liberal icons

00:24:45.940 who have been tumbling,

00:24:46.920 not just right-wingers

00:24:47.860 or conservatives,

00:24:48.900 but people who style

00:24:49.980 themselves as liberal,

00:24:51.160 who write for liberal

00:24:52.660 bastions like 1.00

00:24:54.580 the New York Times?

00:24:55.240 If Barry Weiss

00:24:56.440 is worried about

00:24:58.060 cancel culture,

00:24:58.880 it tells me

00:24:59.300 it's gone pretty far.

00:25:01.620 Well, I think

00:25:02.600 it has gone far.

00:25:04.760 Ezra, by the way,

00:25:05.440 I'm delighted

00:25:06.020 to be back on your show.

00:25:07.100 I enjoyed it

00:25:07.780 the first time around

00:25:08.680 and I'm sure

00:25:09.100 I'll enjoy it this time.

00:25:10.480 I think it has gone too far,

00:25:12.160 although I find it

00:25:13.280 somewhat confusing.

00:25:15.320 It's not,

00:25:15.880 the cancel culture

00:25:16.760 is not clearly identified

00:25:17.900 with either the right

00:25:19.080 or the left.

00:25:20.420 It's supposed to be

00:25:21.100 to employ it

00:25:21.640 when it suits them.

00:25:23.040 And it's also

00:25:23.600 not entirely clear

00:25:25.140 to be what

00:25:25.540 is meant

00:25:26.000 by cancel culture.

00:25:27.980 I have no problem

00:25:29.340 with people

00:25:30.460 getting feisty

00:25:31.460 on social media,

00:25:33.360 with people

00:25:34.360 criticizing the views

00:25:37.060 or the careers

00:25:38.420 of people

00:25:38.880 when they do it

00:25:39.360 on social media,

00:25:40.440 even if they do it

00:25:41.360 in a rather intemperate,

00:25:42.760 perhaps even rude way.

00:25:44.200 I mean,

00:25:44.700 we're all grown-ups,

00:25:46.100 we can handle this,

00:25:47.040 if we can't handle this,

00:25:47.900 we should just stay home

00:25:48.800 and not turn on the television

00:25:50.080 or turn on our computer.

00:25:51.920 But the question is,

00:25:54.120 if that's okay,

00:25:55.360 what is no?

00:25:56.880 And I would suggest to you

00:25:57.920 that there's a couple

00:25:58.540 of things that are not okay.

00:26:00.340 It's not okay

00:26:01.240 when what's really happening

00:26:02.720 is an attempt

00:26:03.440 not just to criticize

00:26:04.660 somebody's views

00:26:05.720 or their conduct

00:26:06.500 in a particular case,

00:26:08.120 but to destroy

00:26:08.940 their reputation

00:26:09.740 and destroy their career.

00:26:11.480 In fact,

00:26:11.760 get them fired

00:26:12.540 because they've said

00:26:13.660 something or done something

00:26:14.720 that's not regarded

00:26:15.320 as acceptable.

00:26:15.980 But worst of all,

00:26:17.820 in my view,

00:26:19.160 is the often craven way

00:26:21.500 in which institutions

00:26:23.540 respond to this

00:26:24.920 by firing people,

00:26:27.180 by issuing apologies

00:26:28.420 when it's not clear

00:26:29.060 what the apology is issued for.

00:26:31.000 And even more distressing

00:26:32.660 in some respects

00:26:33.400 is the way people

00:26:34.620 who are the subject

00:26:35.500 of these kinds of attacks

00:26:36.900 feel obliged

00:26:38.900 to kind of put on sackcloth

00:26:41.480 and ashes

00:26:41.960 and apologize

00:26:42.800 and tell everybody

00:26:44.140 they're going to go away

00:26:45.080 to listen

00:26:46.480 and reflect

00:26:47.300 and learn.

00:26:48.320 To me, 1.00

00:26:48.580 that's just a bunch of rubbish. 1.00

00:26:50.720 You know, 0.98

00:26:51.380 there was a case,

00:26:52.740 I mean,

00:26:53.080 I agree with you

00:26:53.840 that we should allow

00:26:54.640 feisty debate

00:26:55.560 and even flame wars

00:26:57.200 as they're called,

00:26:57.880 but that's the point,

00:27:00.020 I think,

00:27:00.420 is that the left doesn't,

00:27:01.720 and I say it's the left

00:27:02.720 because I don't see

00:27:04.100 cancel culture

00:27:04.820 as a traditional

00:27:07.040 or regular tactic

00:27:08.280 on the right.

00:27:08.880 I challenge anyone

00:27:10.660 to tell me a case

00:27:11.640 of a conservative-leaning

00:27:12.920 campus group

00:27:13.860 trying to ban

00:27:15.160 a leftist speaker

00:27:16.120 from campus

00:27:16.820 or shut down

00:27:17.840 a leftist club

00:27:18.720 on campus.

00:27:19.300 I've just never seen it,

00:27:20.600 whereas the reverse

00:27:21.520 is almost universally true.

00:27:24.100 But let me give you

00:27:24.800 an example.

00:27:25.260 So I wish

00:27:26.300 that it was feisty debates.

00:27:28.060 I wish

00:27:28.500 it was rollicking,

00:27:30.540 you know,

00:27:30.900 elbows up,

00:27:31.720 arguing.

00:27:32.320 I don't think that's there.

00:27:33.660 We have safe spaces

00:27:34.940 and trigger warnings now.

00:27:36.500 I mean,

00:27:36.660 for God's sakes,

00:27:37.700 the chain of newspapers

00:27:39.480 in Atlanta,

00:27:39.980 Canada called Salt Wire

00:27:41.400 had a warning

00:27:43.600 on their Canada Day newspaper

00:27:45.580 that there was

00:27:46.440 a Canadian flag inside.

00:27:47.760 They literally had

00:27:48.500 a trigger warning

00:27:49.300 that there was

00:27:50.320 a Canadian flag inside.

00:27:52.100 But let me give you

00:27:52.740 an example

00:27:53.220 that I'd love you

00:27:54.000 to talk about.

00:27:54.940 This is a tweet

00:27:56.040 from the West Midlands

00:27:58.880 Police Department,

00:28:00.480 which is in the UK.

00:28:02.280 It's Birmingham

00:28:03.020 and whatnot.

00:28:04.200 And they're boasting,

00:28:05.780 they're bragging,

00:28:06.580 they're gleeful

00:28:08.420 in announcing

00:28:09.520 that they literally

00:28:10.580 arrested a 12-year-old

00:28:13.720 for making racially

00:28:15.660 insensitive comments

00:28:17.000 on social media

00:28:18.000 about a professional footballer.

00:28:20.340 That's what they call

00:28:20.860 soccer over there.

00:28:22.220 They boasted

00:28:23.180 that they arrested him,

00:28:24.320 that they found him

00:28:25.160 and arrested him.

00:28:26.440 They later,

00:28:27.280 in a subsequent tweet,

00:28:29.620 said that the footballer

00:28:31.160 in question

00:28:31.640 never even complained.

00:28:33.660 He didn't know about it.

00:28:34.700 It was just some

00:28:35.540 12-year-old

00:28:37.660 saying some rude words

00:28:39.060 online.

00:28:40.660 You know,

00:28:41.120 maybe he deserves 1.00

00:28:41.780 a spanking, 0.99

00:28:42.900 but the cops boasted 0.72

00:28:44.340 they arrest him.

00:28:45.140 I think that's part

00:28:45.920 of cancel culture.

00:28:47.500 Well, I mean,

00:28:48.120 what I think is

00:28:49.060 it's absurd,

00:28:51.200 and if it weren't

00:28:51.880 so dangerous,

00:28:53.460 I suppose,

00:28:54.040 it would be humorous.

00:28:54.980 I mean,

00:28:55.240 for God's sake, 0.98

00:28:56.140 it's clearly ridiculous. 0.94

00:28:57.920 But I would, 0.87

00:28:59.100 I'm not so much agitated

00:29:00.440 with that kind of

00:29:01.060 bizarre case,

00:29:02.540 which I'm sure

00:29:03.320 will attract a lot

00:29:04.380 of negative attention

00:29:05.480 and probably lead

00:29:06.760 to an apology

00:29:07.420 by the police department

00:29:08.480 or perhaps the sacking

00:29:09.500 of the police officers

00:29:10.320 involved.

00:29:11.260 I'm more concerned

00:29:12.260 with the case

00:29:13.180 I just read about,

00:29:14.200 for example,

00:29:14.700 before I came on your show,

00:29:16.460 about the long-time director

00:29:19.280 of the San Francisco

00:29:21.100 Museum of Fine Art,

00:29:23.020 who's just been forced

00:29:24.100 to resign

00:29:24.680 because he said

00:29:25.820 that despite

00:29:27.000 what was going on

00:29:28.100 in the United States

00:29:28.960 and the world of culture

00:29:29.900 in general,

00:29:30.460 the international world

00:29:31.120 culture,

00:29:31.920 he was still interested

00:29:33.480 in acquiring works

00:29:35.140 of art

00:29:35.620 by white men.

00:29:37.440 You know,

00:29:37.940 he wasn't going

00:29:38.560 to rule that out

00:29:39.380 as a possibility

00:29:40.160 or as a tactic

00:29:40.920 of the future.

00:29:42.000 And this comment

00:29:42.800 was met with outrage

00:29:44.380 and a lot

00:29:46.760 of the staff

00:29:47.420 of the museum

00:29:48.080 said his departure

00:29:49.240 was non-negotiable.

00:29:51.460 This gentleman

00:29:52.100 may have used

00:29:52.960 language

00:29:54.960 that wasn't

00:29:55.500 too clever,

00:29:56.440 perhaps,

00:29:57.220 or he may have

00:29:58.500 not thought

00:29:59.660 all that carefully

00:30:00.380 about how

00:30:01.120 he positioned himself.

00:30:02.220 But what he said

00:30:03.020 was,

00:30:03.980 to me at least,

00:30:05.100 entirely reasonable

00:30:06.100 and now he's gone.

00:30:08.320 A major cultural figure

00:30:09.820 who apparently

00:30:11.120 did a splendid job

00:30:11.940 is gone

00:30:12.500 because of that.

00:30:13.780 But we've seen

00:30:14.220 other examples

00:30:14.860 of this around the world

00:30:15.860 and indeed

00:30:16.260 in our own country.

00:30:17.560 And when that happens,

00:30:18.660 I think this thing

00:30:19.620 is out of control.

00:30:21.100 But the question,

00:30:21.860 Ezra,

00:30:22.040 is how do you

00:30:23.360 rein it in?

00:30:24.000 I mean,

00:30:24.180 how do you stop

00:30:25.640 this sort of nonsense

00:30:26.400 happening?

00:30:26.900 And I think,

00:30:27.540 as I suggested to you

00:30:28.380 earlier,

00:30:29.160 a part of it

00:30:29.980 is the responsibility

00:30:32.260 of institutions,

00:30:33.580 of universities,

00:30:34.580 for example,

00:30:35.460 or the CBC,

00:30:36.580 for example,

00:30:37.620 to stand up to this

00:30:38.860 to be able

00:30:39.580 to make a judgment

00:30:40.680 as to when

00:30:41.320 the criticism

00:30:42.180 is leveled,

00:30:43.280 the attempt to cancel

00:30:44.280 someone's career

00:30:45.100 and identity

00:30:45.700 is perhaps legitimate,

00:30:47.880 which it may be

00:30:48.580 sometimes,

00:30:49.160 not often,

00:30:49.760 I think,

00:30:50.060 but sometimes,

00:30:50.940 when it clearly isn't.

00:30:52.520 When it isn't legitimate

00:30:53.920 to reject the attack

00:30:56.180 and stand behind

00:30:57.260 the person being attacked.

00:30:59.880 You know,

00:31:00.260 there's a moment

00:31:00.700 a week or two ago

00:31:01.820 when a group

00:31:02.440 of intellectuals,

00:31:03.180 including from Canada,

00:31:04.960 Margaret Atwood,

00:31:06.060 who has impeccable

00:31:07.040 liberal credentials,

00:31:08.740 I mean,

00:31:09.460 and she's had a bit

00:31:10.840 of a revival

00:31:11.460 with, you know,

00:31:13.060 her TV show

00:31:14.220 about The Handmaid's Tale,

00:31:15.600 so she's exquisitely

00:31:17.600 politically correct,

00:31:18.960 but she signed a letter

00:31:20.080 along with Salman Rushdie

00:31:21.200 and J.K. Rowling

00:31:22.400 and others

00:31:22.820 saying that

00:31:24.740 these protests

00:31:26.380 have gone too far,

00:31:27.540 the cancel culture

00:31:28.160 has gone too far.

00:31:29.100 I was momentarily

00:31:30.660 cheered by that

00:31:31.600 because no one

00:31:32.300 is more

00:31:32.840 official Canada

00:31:35.220 establishment

00:31:36.300 than Margaret Atwood.

00:31:38.500 That lasted

00:31:39.400 for about five minutes

00:31:40.360 and then it went

00:31:40.900 right back

00:31:41.360 to what you're talking

00:31:42.140 about,

00:31:42.440 the kind of cancel culture

00:31:43.340 driving people out.

00:31:46.160 How,

00:31:46.700 like,

00:31:47.200 what does it take?

00:31:48.080 I mean,

00:31:48.280 that was,

00:31:48.720 it wasn't a great letter,

00:31:49.800 but it was signed,

00:31:50.480 but I don't think

00:31:51.100 anything happened.

00:31:53.480 Well,

00:31:54.060 you're right.

00:31:54.900 I mean,

00:31:55.220 it was good

00:31:56.380 to see that letter,

00:31:57.280 but as I'm sure

00:31:58.740 you know,

00:31:59.500 the people

00:32:00.100 who signed

00:32:00.760 that letter

00:32:01.340 were immediately

00:32:02.600 themselves attacked

00:32:03.780 for doing it.

00:32:04.600 And one of them

00:32:05.260 recanted.

00:32:06.180 One of them said,

00:32:06.940 oh,

00:32:07.100 I didn't know

00:32:07.600 that guy

00:32:08.280 was signing it.

00:32:09.520 I forgot her name.

00:32:10.720 So,

00:32:11.080 I mean,

00:32:11.760 imagine that

00:32:12.300 you sign a letter

00:32:13.020 saying let's stop

00:32:13.740 cancel culture

00:32:14.500 and then you're,

00:32:16.200 you engage,

00:32:17.620 and then you make

00:32:18.460 a self-renunciation

00:32:19.380 like the Red Guards

00:32:20.460 we had a show

00:32:21.000 the other day,

00:32:21.540 Professor,

00:32:22.180 where we went

00:32:22.800 through photographs

00:32:24.100 of the Cultural Revolution,

00:32:25.420 the self-denunciations,

00:32:26.560 the mass denunciations,

00:32:28.000 and I tell you,

00:32:28.900 other than the fact 0.87

00:32:30.000 that it was black

00:32:30.620 and white photos

00:32:31.200 in China,

00:32:31.980 I felt like we were

00:32:33.240 five minutes from that

00:32:34.480 in North America.

00:32:35.840 Yeah,

00:32:36.300 I understand that,

00:32:37.180 but let's just talk

00:32:38.080 about that letter

00:32:38.680 for a minute.

00:32:39.200 There's about 150 people,

00:32:40.580 I think,

00:32:40.820 signed it.

00:32:41.260 You're right,

00:32:41.680 Margaret Atwood signed it,

00:32:42.800 J.Q. Rowling signed it,

00:32:44.800 Salman Rushdie signed it.

00:32:45.840 I mean,

00:32:45.940 these people

00:32:46.520 are titans

00:32:47.840 in their field.

00:32:49.120 They're extremely

00:32:49.780 well-known,

00:32:50.400 famous,

00:32:51.460 and they have a lot

00:32:52.100 of authority

00:32:53.180 and clout. 1.00

00:32:54.540 And then,

00:32:55.000 of course,

00:32:55.320 they were attacked.

00:32:56.080 Of course,

00:32:56.380 J.K. Rowling

00:32:57.080 is an interesting

00:32:57.680 and separate case

00:32:58.460 all by itself.

00:33:00.460 And you have

00:33:01.100 to ask yourself,

00:33:02.400 who's doing the attacking

00:33:03.700 and why are they doing it?

00:33:05.500 The views expressed

00:33:06.420 were very hard to attack.

00:33:08.000 It was more ad hominem

00:33:09.280 than anything else,

00:33:10.340 attacking the people.

00:33:11.640 And I think it's perhaps

00:33:12.600 because it's a way

00:33:13.520 of people

00:33:14.280 who are not fake

00:33:16.600 and who are not rich,

00:33:20.200 but who want their voices heard

00:33:22.180 or getting their voices heard.

00:33:23.700 I mean,

00:33:23.860 that's one of the things

00:33:24.380 that's happened now.

00:33:25.660 People who can tussle with,

00:33:28.340 can take on,

00:33:29.640 can confront,

00:33:30.760 and maybe even harm

00:33:31.700 and damage these famous people

00:33:34.020 who before were virtually immune

00:33:35.780 from this kind of thing.

00:33:36.920 Another recent example

00:33:38.140 is Steven Pinker,

00:33:40.880 the Harvard professor,

00:33:43.020 linguist,

00:33:44.560 very well-known,

00:33:45.420 famous indeed,

00:33:46.760 who has just come under attack

00:33:48.460 because people have been

00:33:49.960 sifting through his tweet

00:33:51.840 from years ago

00:33:53.120 and finding things

00:33:54.540 that he said

00:33:55.020 that might be subject

00:33:56.420 to misinterpretation.

00:33:57.520 For example,

00:33:58.540 he used the word

00:33:59.460 urban crime,

00:34:00.700 the phrase

00:34:01.140 urban crime.

00:34:02.620 And apparently,

00:34:03.200 and I didn't know this

00:34:03.880 until I read the article

00:34:04.560 in the New York Times,

00:34:05.900 urban is kind of a code word

00:34:07.620 for black crime. 0.93

00:34:09.040 Who knew, right? 0.98

00:34:10.520 Now,

00:34:11.000 he has been tarred

00:34:12.120 with the racist brush

00:34:13.460 that so many other people

00:34:14.940 have been tarred with.

00:34:16.160 He's famous enough

00:34:17.400 and strong enough

00:34:18.700 perhaps to resist

00:34:19.880 this kind of attack.

00:34:20.940 But the people

00:34:21.540 who are doing it,

00:34:22.220 and Steven Pinker himself

00:34:23.040 pointed this out,

00:34:24.060 are people that he'd

00:34:24.860 never heard of.

00:34:25.880 He said,

00:34:26.460 I've never heard of these people

00:34:27.820 who are signing this letter

00:34:29.200 and attacked me.

00:34:30.260 And that in itself

00:34:31.180 was taken to be

00:34:32.260 kind of a derogatory comment.

00:34:34.500 So you get into

00:34:35.380 this incredible miasma

00:34:36.820 of insult 0.99

00:34:38.420 and ridiculous behavior 0.99

00:34:41.040 and ridiculous expression 0.99

00:34:42.160 of opinion. 0.95

00:34:43.480 You know,

00:34:44.040 it's funny you say that.

00:34:45.000 I mean,

00:34:45.280 you've listed a few

00:34:46.240 really big,

00:34:46.960 big shots.

00:34:48.280 You know,

00:34:48.800 bosses of museums.

00:34:50.240 Pinker is very

00:34:51.340 prominent in his field.

00:34:53.020 At the University

00:34:54.960 of British Columbia,

00:34:55.700 we did a show on this

00:34:56.680 about a month ago.

00:34:58.600 The chair of their

00:34:59.700 board of governors

00:35:00.500 was fired for the crime

00:35:03.600 of liking a few tweets

00:35:07.200 by Donald Trump.

00:35:08.500 I swear that's all he did.

00:35:10.320 And I went through

00:35:11.140 and I looked at the tweets

00:35:12.000 and they were

00:35:12.500 completely boring.

00:35:14.460 Typical Trump braggadocio,

00:35:16.100 but they weren't even

00:35:17.020 racial in any way. 0.52

00:35:18.160 The word black 0.52

00:35:18.880 did not appear in them.

00:35:20.060 One of them was about

00:35:22.160 coronavirus

00:35:23.080 and protecting seniors,

00:35:24.760 but simply liking

00:35:26.020 a tweet from Trump.

00:35:29.720 And here's what's so insane.

00:35:31.020 There was an emergency

00:35:31.920 weekend meeting

00:35:33.400 of the board

00:35:35.140 to sack him.

00:35:36.860 But what gets me,

00:35:39.420 professor,

00:35:40.420 is that this

00:35:41.380 hero of the community,

00:35:43.860 this super volunteer,

00:35:45.140 this fundraiser for UBC,

00:35:46.860 who's not doing it

00:35:48.040 for his self-enrichment,

00:35:48.960 he's giving.

00:35:50.060 And because he liked

00:35:51.140 a tweet of the U.S. president,

00:35:53.420 he was being fired.

00:35:54.800 But instead of standing up

00:35:55.940 and saying this is wrong,

00:35:57.880 he joined in

00:35:58.720 the denunciation of himself,

00:36:00.100 just like something

00:36:00.700 out of the Red Guard.

00:36:02.000 And my question for you,

00:36:03.360 whether it's that

00:36:03.920 UBC board chairman

00:36:05.140 or the museum boss

00:36:07.020 you talked about

00:36:07.620 who said,

00:36:08.040 well, I would still look

00:36:08.740 at art from white men,

00:36:10.240 or the professor at Harvard,

00:36:13.900 if any one of them said,

00:36:15.660 you know what, guys?

00:36:16.600 I'm not going to join

00:36:17.600 in the self-denunciation

00:36:18.680 struggle session.

00:36:20.040 I'm going to fight back

00:36:22.380 and I'm going to sue

00:36:24.120 the university

00:36:24.820 and I'm going to make a fuss

00:36:26.600 and I'm going to try

00:36:28.060 and rally donors

00:36:29.520 to the university

00:36:30.440 and I'm going to try

00:36:31.460 and become a seed crystal

00:36:33.720 around which others

00:36:34.520 will fight.

00:36:34.960 So not just signing a letter.

00:36:36.920 You know,

00:36:37.120 signing a letter

00:36:37.760 is nothing.

00:36:38.240 It's like checking

00:36:39.160 a like on Facebook.

00:36:40.920 But if one of these people

00:36:42.040 actually said,

00:36:42.560 you know what,

00:36:43.740 I'm not quitting

00:36:44.560 because I like to tweet

00:36:45.360 from Donald Trump.

00:36:46.140 I'm not.

00:36:47.040 And I will fight you 1.00

00:36:48.540 and burn you to the ground 1.00

00:36:50.100 instead of, 1.00

00:36:51.880 if that's what you are now.

00:36:53.660 Maybe that's not

00:36:54.420 normal people think.

00:36:56.380 Maybe normal people

00:36:57.200 don't do that.

00:36:58.240 Maybe they love

00:36:58.740 the institution so much

00:36:59.980 they would rather

00:37:00.860 let it be taken over

00:37:01.920 than burnt to the ground.

00:37:03.100 But if I was being fired,

00:37:04.520 I would sue.

00:37:06.280 I'm sure you would, Ezra.

00:37:08.180 I think you're right

00:37:09.180 about this.

00:37:09.840 I think it's time

00:37:11.740 for people

00:37:12.480 who are

00:37:13.720 on the receiving end 0.97

00:37:15.260 of this kind of nonsense.

00:37:16.480 It's not always nonsense.

00:37:17.480 Sometimes it's justified,

00:37:18.380 but often it's nonsense

00:37:19.460 for them to fight back.

00:37:21.180 It takes a lot of guts.

00:37:22.540 It takes courage.

00:37:23.440 It takes fortitude.

00:37:25.620 Those are the qualities

00:37:26.440 perhaps that are required.

00:37:27.880 And I also think

00:37:28.540 it's time

00:37:29.060 for our institution,

00:37:31.000 for government,

00:37:32.420 for universities,

00:37:33.800 for businesses,

00:37:35.160 for the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

00:37:36.780 also to stand up

00:37:38.240 and to say,

00:37:38.700 well,

00:37:39.020 let's take CBC,

00:37:41.080 for example.

00:37:41.780 These charges have been made.

00:37:43.320 These allegations

00:37:43.960 have been made.

00:37:45.260 People are demanding

00:37:46.260 somebody's head

00:37:47.300 as a result of something

00:37:48.680 they said

00:37:49.160 last week

00:37:50.800 or last month

00:37:51.500 or 10 years ago.

00:37:53.160 We are not going

00:37:54.000 to respond to this.

00:37:55.080 We are not doing it.

00:37:55.940 We are standing behind

00:37:57.120 our employee.

00:37:58.360 We do not think

00:37:59.060 the behavior

00:37:59.640 or the comment

00:38:00.480 is sufficiently egregious

00:38:01.840 or damaging

00:38:02.980 or racist

00:38:03.740 or whatever

00:38:04.420 to warrant any kind of action.

00:38:06.140 But there seems to be

00:38:07.840 a failure to do that.

00:38:10.080 I don't know whether

00:38:10.500 it's because people

00:38:11.880 are scared.

00:38:12.600 I don't know whether

00:38:13.100 because they're scared

00:38:13.920 of the mob

00:38:14.760 or what.

00:38:15.960 But it's time

00:38:16.580 for people

00:38:16.960 to stand up

00:38:17.560 and fight.

00:38:18.640 I mean,

00:38:18.840 there have been

00:38:19.440 a handful of examples

00:38:20.600 of this recently

00:38:21.740 but not nearly enough.

00:38:23.040 So I agree with you.

00:38:24.100 I'm not sure

00:38:24.380 about burning down

00:38:25.520 the house

00:38:25.980 but I agree with you.

00:38:27.640 No, I'm just saying

00:38:29.380 I can understand someone

00:38:32.180 but if someone

00:38:33.080 was so falsely accused

00:38:35.180 the idea of

00:38:36.800 accusing yourself

00:38:37.920 is just so...

00:38:39.700 Well, that's the red guard 0.98

00:38:40.860 thing, of course.

00:38:42.060 Yeah.

00:38:42.080 Well, I am.

00:38:45.020 Yeah, that's the red guard.

00:38:46.800 Drag them in front 0.98

00:38:47.460 of a tribunal

00:38:48.100 and get them to confess

00:38:49.220 to whatever it is.

00:38:50.980 I have a theory.

00:38:52.280 It's a political theory

00:38:53.160 that there are certain

00:38:54.320 subjects out there

00:38:55.200 that are so universally

00:38:56.300 believed by people

00:38:57.480 quietly

00:38:58.300 yet so rarely

00:38:59.640 expressed by those

00:39:00.580 in power

00:39:01.060 that if any politician

00:39:02.980 actually says the words

00:39:04.100 they're immediately

00:39:05.140 embraced by

00:39:05.940 by the people

00:39:07.520 in a populist way.

00:39:09.100 I point to

00:39:10.160 the premier of Quebec

00:39:12.100 who in my view

00:39:13.840 became premier in part

00:39:15.480 because he said

00:39:16.160 I want to roll back

00:39:16.860 immigration by 20%

00:39:18.020 and I want to bring in

00:39:19.400 a law to ensure

00:39:20.420 the secular nature

00:39:21.660 of symbols

00:39:22.560 in government

00:39:23.660 so no burqas 0.99

00:39:24.540 no religious symbols

00:39:26.280 those two things

00:39:27.500 and he said them

00:39:28.080 both rather meekly

00:39:29.120 at least he said them

00:39:30.680 and I believe

00:39:31.760 as an outsider

00:39:32.760 that's one of the reasons

00:39:33.980 he's premier of Quebec.

00:39:35.360 I also think

00:39:36.440 cancel culture

00:39:37.240 is that sort of thing

00:39:38.900 and I have this

00:39:40.360 hope

00:39:41.380 more than a suspicion

00:39:43.200 that if some politician

00:39:45.620 somewhere just said

00:39:46.520 enough

00:39:47.180 I'm going to speak out

00:39:49.040 against this cancel culture

00:39:50.160 I'm going to hold

00:39:50.920 universities to account

00:39:51.940 I'm going to hold

00:39:52.780 museums to account

00:39:53.720 I'm going to summon

00:39:55.720 the board of governors

00:39:56.900 I'm going to summon

00:39:58.080 the board of the museum

00:39:59.480 to answer

00:40:00.620 and I'm going to cut off

00:40:01.700 their funding

00:40:02.240 like I just think

00:40:03.660 such a politician

00:40:04.620 would immediately be

00:40:06.700 met by

00:40:08.000 the silent majority

00:40:09.320 with such a thunderous applause

00:40:11.020 and that's what gets me

00:40:13.260 is how few

00:40:14.020 even conservatives

00:40:15.220 how few opposition MPs

00:40:17.320 who have nothing to lose

00:40:18.340 are they're so afraid

00:40:20.220 of taking this on

00:40:20.920 the only

00:40:21.260 I mean Rex Murphy

00:40:22.960 held his ground

00:40:23.740 at the National Post

00:40:24.620 but most people cower

00:40:27.380 and I don't see

00:40:28.240 I don't see

00:40:28.820 an opposition politician

00:40:29.800 who's an entrepreneur

00:40:30.940 and who would say

00:40:31.620 hey I can make a name

00:40:32.940 for myself

00:40:33.400 as a freedom fighter

00:40:34.300 I just don't see it

00:40:35.340 is there anyone in Canada

00:40:36.500 who fits that role

00:40:37.840 professor?

00:40:38.880 Well let me just say

00:40:39.920 that again

00:40:40.420 I agree with you

00:40:42.020 in fact

00:40:42.500 in my book

00:40:43.260 as you know

00:40:43.700 there's a chapter

00:40:44.520 on political leadership

00:40:45.560 which I think

00:40:46.040 is sorely lacking

00:40:47.000 around the world

00:40:47.720 in another country

00:40:48.580 that you do not have

00:40:50.540 you know the famous story

00:40:52.540 about the French revolutionary

00:40:53.800 who looked out of his window

00:40:55.140 and saw the mob

00:40:56.800 surging down the street

00:40:58.180 and he said

00:40:59.100 I must follow them

00:41:00.220 for I am their leader

00:41:01.240 that's the sort of thing

00:41:02.740 we have

00:41:03.140 we don't want

00:41:03.760 we don't need

00:41:04.680 political leaders

00:41:05.380 who are running after the mob

00:41:06.740 thinking they're the leader

00:41:07.660 we need political leaders

00:41:09.180 who are out in front

00:41:10.080 and are articulating

00:41:11.360 what should happen

00:41:12.400 in their view

00:41:13.040 and trying to convince people

00:41:14.440 that's the right thing to do

00:41:15.420 I'm fond of telling the story

00:41:17.440 of FDR

00:41:18.700 Franklin Delano Roosevelt

00:41:20.900 who just before

00:41:21.820 the 1936 election

00:41:23.100 gave a big speech

00:41:24.720 talking about

00:41:25.600 his initial attempts

00:41:26.600 to implement the New Deal

00:41:27.900 and he said

00:41:28.580 there are people

00:41:29.800 in this country

00:41:30.700 who hate me

00:41:32.100 for what I am trying to do

00:41:33.920 and then he said

00:41:34.840 I welcome their hatred

00:41:36.480 to me that's leadership

00:41:38.120 that's willing to fight back

00:41:39.980 whatever you think

00:41:41.120 of the New Deal

00:41:41.800 whatever you think

00:41:42.360 of FDR

00:41:42.820 he showed

00:41:43.580 leadership

00:41:44.900 strength

00:41:45.600 the willingness

00:41:46.060 to fight back

00:41:46.840 the willingness

00:41:47.500 to try and guide

00:41:48.460 the nation

00:41:49.340 and I think that's what we need

00:41:50.420 not just at the highest

00:41:51.620 political level

00:41:52.420 but in the universities

00:41:54.060 presidents of universities

00:41:55.240 chairmen of the board of governors

00:41:56.560 boards of governors

00:41:57.580 of museums

00:41:58.260 the people who run the CBC

00:41:59.900 we need people with courage

00:42:01.620 who have a vision

00:42:02.640 of what they should be doing

00:42:03.620 and do not bend

00:42:05.040 every passing breeze

00:42:07.080 we need people

00:42:09.440 of oak

00:42:10.220 not of willow

00:42:11.120 you know

00:42:13.440 I just thought

00:42:14.060 of someone

00:42:14.540 who meets

00:42:15.060 that definition

00:42:16.040 the head of the

00:42:17.160 Toronto Public Library

00:42:18.460 when asked

00:42:20.240 to cancel

00:42:20.900 a room rental

00:42:21.980 to Megan Murphy

00:42:22.840 a feminist

00:42:23.480 who wanted to talk

00:42:25.040 about

00:42:25.480 how in her view

00:42:26.820 transgenderism

00:42:28.340 is threatening 0.83

00:42:29.280 women's spaces

00:42:30.380 there was a

00:42:31.900 transgender move

00:42:32.800 to blacklist 0.99

00:42:33.800 and cancel that

00:42:35.140 and the head

00:42:35.660 of the library

00:42:36.200 said

00:42:36.580 we really care

00:42:37.860 about trans people

00:42:38.740 very very much

00:42:39.520 in these five ways

00:42:40.400 but we are not

00:42:41.480 going to cancel

00:42:42.640 this feminist 1.00

00:42:43.980 and you know what

00:42:44.760 I remember that

00:42:45.420 heroic moment

00:42:46.060 we did a show

00:42:46.600 on that too

00:42:47.100 that's a local hero

00:42:48.720 and you know what

00:42:49.340 she survived

00:42:50.020 I might also add

00:42:52.620 that all of a sudden

00:42:53.920 every institution

00:42:55.120 like the library system

00:42:56.480 for example

00:42:57.060 is supposed to have

00:42:58.380 kind of political

00:42:59.500 sociological theories

00:43:01.280 about everything

00:43:02.220 why don't they just

00:43:03.480 run the library

00:43:04.440 or run their institution

00:43:06.020 without feeling

00:43:06.840 that they have to be involved

00:43:07.900 in basic

00:43:09.020 kind of down

00:43:09.700 and dirty politics

00:43:10.600 all the time

00:43:11.160 that's not really

00:43:12.040 their role

00:43:12.580 that's not what

00:43:13.340 they're there to do

00:43:14.180 they're there

00:43:14.600 in the case

00:43:15.180 let's say

00:43:15.520 of the library system

00:43:16.300 to provide a library system

00:43:18.000 everybody seems

00:43:19.080 to get dragged in

00:43:20.380 this horrible

00:43:21.560 bitter

00:43:22.280 often senseless

00:43:23.940 political fight

00:43:24.920 well listen

00:43:27.280 it's great to catch up

00:43:28.240 with you

00:43:28.520 and there's so much

00:43:29.100 cancelling going on

00:43:29.960 I wanted to reach out

00:43:30.700 to you again

00:43:31.040 I enjoyed our conversation

00:43:32.540 last time

00:43:33.020 folks

00:43:33.320 if you haven't got it yet

00:43:34.600 we have the Amazon link

00:43:36.520 under this video

00:43:37.600 we're talking

00:43:39.380 to Philip Slayton

00:43:40.880 former dean of law

00:43:42.020 his book is called

00:43:43.600 Nothing Left to Lose

00:43:45.580 an impolite report

00:43:47.780 on the state of freedom

00:43:49.000 in Canada

00:43:49.480 and I have to disclose

00:43:50.500 that there's a very

00:43:51.300 friendly chapter

00:43:52.040 on one of my

00:43:52.880 free speech battles

00:43:53.680 so I appreciate that

00:43:54.920 and there's a lot

00:43:56.760 of important news there

00:43:57.800 that I think

00:43:58.300 you know

00:43:59.060 and I say to our viewers

00:44:00.040 there's a lot of

00:44:01.660 leftist books

00:44:02.260 there's a lot of

00:44:02.800 censorious books

00:44:03.760 when there's a book

00:44:05.100 that comes along

00:44:05.700 in defense of freedom

00:44:06.600 not only should we

00:44:07.820 read it

00:44:08.180 because it's interesting

00:44:09.280 and we can learn something

00:44:10.200 but I think

00:44:11.540 we have a bit of a

00:44:12.920 public obligation

00:44:14.420 to support

00:44:15.360 conservative books

00:44:17.000 if we want more

00:44:18.100 of them made

00:44:18.740 so what I would

00:44:19.940 I would encourage folks

00:44:21.100 I mean if you're on the

00:44:21.780 I think you should buy

00:44:22.740 this book because

00:44:23.300 it's interesting

00:44:23.900 and it makes the case

00:44:24.860 for free speech

00:44:25.460 but we also have to

00:44:26.800 support the few

00:44:27.440 freedom oriented books

00:44:28.380 published in Canada

00:44:29.160 at all

00:44:29.760 so please do that

00:44:30.660 at the Amazon link below

00:44:32.100 last word to you

00:44:32.760 Professor

00:44:33.100 well thank you

00:44:34.940 it's always a pleasure

00:44:36.080 to be on your show

00:44:36.800 you and I don't agree

00:44:37.920 on everything

00:44:38.600 that's for certain

00:44:39.480 but we do agree

00:44:40.780 on a lot of things

00:44:41.520 well it's nice to see you

00:44:43.140 keep fighting for freedom

00:44:44.220 it's what we do here

00:44:45.140 and your book

00:44:45.740 is an important

00:44:46.340 part of that

00:44:47.420 and I'll encourage

00:44:48.020 all our rebels

00:44:48.640 to do their part

00:44:49.420 take care professor

00:44:50.220 I appreciate it

00:44:51.160 thank you

00:44:51.420 bye bye

00:44:51.940 there you have it

00:44:52.580 Philip Slayton

00:44:53.200 is the author

00:44:54.200 of Nothing Left to Move

00:44:55.860 stay with us

00:44:56.480 more ahead

00:44:56.940 on my monologue

00:45:09.200 last night

00:45:09.700 Matt writes

00:45:10.420 Canada should ban

00:45:11.920 all Chinese companies

00:45:12.740 like Huawei

00:45:13.220 from doing business here

00:45:14.180 well I mean

00:45:16.720 I don't know

00:45:17.520 if I have an objection

00:45:18.280 to Huawei

00:45:18.960 selling actual

00:45:20.040 hand phones here

00:45:20.880 like a phone itself

00:45:21.860 I wouldn't use one

00:45:23.020 for sure

00:45:23.360 I'm sure it's

00:45:23.940 spying on you

00:45:24.540 but at least

00:45:25.580 you can choose

00:45:26.220 not to do that

00:45:27.060 if Huawei technology

00:45:28.620 is built into

00:45:29.560 Telus and Shaw

00:45:31.020 and Bell

00:45:32.360 and whatever

00:45:33.100 other companies

00:45:34.180 there are

00:45:34.580 you can't avoid it

00:45:35.800 that's the problem

00:45:36.560 and even our military

00:45:37.900 and police

00:45:38.580 and other

00:45:39.300 confidential people

00:45:41.100 can't avoid it

00:45:42.420 that's the reason

00:45:43.180 you have to ban

00:45:43.880 them from the 5G network

00:45:45.440 Christine writes

00:45:47.440 Canada is the only 0.98

00:45:48.680 five eyes country

00:45:49.380 that has not banned

00:45:50.300 Huawei

00:45:50.720 what's Trudeau waiting for

00:45:51.960 well that's the question

00:45:53.560 is it ideological

00:45:54.380 or is it

00:45:55.960 compromat

00:45:56.960 as the Soviets 0.51

00:45:57.640 would say

00:45:57.960 compromising

00:45:58.720 materials

00:45:59.600 do they have him

00:46:00.520 in a blackmail

00:46:01.720 or extortion position

00:46:02.620 that's a real question

00:46:03.560 we know

00:46:04.860 about some

00:46:06.440 of his bad behavior

00:46:07.580 groping people

00:46:08.980 blackface 0.95

00:46:09.940 his financial

00:46:11.120 skullduggery 0.99

00:46:11.760 with we

00:46:12.260 if that's what

00:46:13.500 ordinary journalists

00:46:14.720 can dig up

00:46:15.320 imagine what

00:46:15.980 the Chinese government

00:46:17.320 spies can dig up

00:46:18.620 on Trudeau

00:46:19.100 I bet they have

00:46:20.220 some pretty nasty

00:46:21.040 stuff on him

00:46:21.760 on my interview

00:46:23.620 with Joel Pollack

00:46:24.200 on Barry Weiss

00:46:24.800 Peter writes

00:46:25.380 putting any opinions

00:46:26.840 of Barry Weiss

00:46:27.400 to one side

00:46:28.040 this bowing down

00:46:28.860 to the Twitter mob

00:46:29.480 is a major concern

00:46:30.560 yeah I thought it was

00:46:32.460 interesting to hear

00:46:33.080 from Joel Pollack

00:46:33.680 that Barry Weiss

00:46:34.380 herself was a

00:46:35.340 practitioner of

00:46:35.980 cancel culture

00:46:36.600 that makes it all

00:46:37.740 the more interesting

00:46:38.540 don't you think

00:46:39.200 that even if you

00:46:40.340 try and go along

00:46:41.060 with a mob

00:46:41.520 one day they will 0.57

00:46:42.240 devour you

00:46:42.960 as we've just

00:46:43.640 discovered

00:46:44.100 I mean

00:46:45.060 well that's the show

00:46:46.380 for today

00:46:46.680 what do you think

00:46:47.140 of freethetomichaels.com

00:46:48.620 do you think

00:46:49.260 it has any chance

00:46:50.140 Professor Matus

00:46:51.640 knows how to

00:46:52.260 tell a story

00:46:52.980 and fight

00:46:54.040 with the law

00:46:54.920 I don't put a lot

00:46:56.320 of stock

00:46:56.800 in international law

00:46:58.120 you know

00:46:58.860 you and what army

00:47:00.140 is the first thing

00:47:00.940 that comes to mind

00:47:01.720 but if it names

00:47:02.700 and shames

00:47:03.260 the Chinese communists

00:47:04.220 who want a safe face

00:47:05.180 I think it's worth

00:47:06.160 a few bucks

00:47:06.740 that's the show

00:47:08.200 for today

00:47:08.580 until tomorrow

00:47:09.260 on behalf of all

00:47:10.400 us here at

00:47:10.860 Rebel World Headquarters

00:47:11.720 to you at home

00:47:12.380 good night

00:47:12.940 and keep fighting

00:47:13.920 for freedom

00:47:14.420 you

00:47:19.320 you

00:47:20.320 you

00:47:21.320 you

00:47:23.480 you

00:47:26.360 you

Rebel News Podcast - July 17, 2020

Free the Two Michaels： If Trudeau won't act, then we will. Here's how.

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