Rebel News Podcast - It's Venezuela's “Berlin Wall moment” — but will Maduro hold on to power？

00:00:00.000 Tonight, it's a Berlin Wall moment in Venezuela as that country rises up to throw off their tyrant.

00:00:06.180 Will they succeed or will Maduro hold on? It's January 24th and this is the Ezra Levant Show.

00:00:13.560 Why should others go to jail when you're a biggest carbon consumer I know?

00:00:17.340 There's 8,500 customers here and you won't give them an answer.

00:00:21.420 The only thing I have to say to the government about why I'm publishing it is because it's my bloody right to do so.

00:00:30.000 Venezuela used to be the world's fourth richest country ahead of Canada, ahead of the United Kingdom.

00:00:39.340 Can you believe that? It's lush and lovely and civilized and I'm not sure if you know this,

00:00:45.260 but they actually have larger oil reserves than Canada, larger oil reserves even than Saudi Arabia.

00:00:51.440 Their Venezuelan heavy crude, which is actually somewhat similar to Canadian oil sands oil, it's so plentiful.

00:00:56.680 That country has the biggest oil reserves in the world.

00:01:02.160 They should be as rich as Singapore or Hong Kong.

00:01:04.080 Actually, they should be richer because Singapore and Hong Kong, those little countries, they don't have any natural resources.

00:01:10.480 Venezuela is Western, it's Christian, it's educated, it's industrialized, but then it was taken over by communists.

00:01:18.740 I mean, I guess you could call them socialists.

00:01:20.560 There's not much difference, but I think communism is a better description, especially considering how the country has effectively been colonized by Cuba over the past 30 years.

00:01:31.040 It's practically certain that were it not for Cuban special forces operating illegally in Venezuela, or actually Chavez and Maduro permitted it,

00:01:39.960 usually the Cubans are not in uniform, but they pretend to be police or even in plain clothes.

00:01:44.600 Without Cubans, Venezuela's democracy movement would have toppled their dictatorship long ago. 0.91

00:01:51.500 The worst dictator was Hugo Chavez.

00:01:54.820 That's him on the right, shown giving sort of a high five to a smiling Barack Obama.

00:02:01.300 And it was just beaming at a fellow world traveler.

00:02:03.860 And that thug in the middle there with the mustache, that's Nicolas Maduro, who took over as the tyrant after Chavez died in 2013.

00:02:12.460 Maduro was definitely a thug, but it's inaccurate to say he was the totalitarian center of Venezuela in the same way that, say, Kim Jong-un or his father or grandfather were in North Korea. 0.56

00:02:25.820 Maduro is rapacious, yes, but he's part of a larger network of tyranny. 0.68

00:02:30.100 The Cubans, Iran, believe it or not, Turkey is meddling in there.

00:02:33.100 Everyone wants a piece of Venezuela, and Maduro is weak enough, economically, militarily, personally, that he has to give up a lot of control to those foreign meddlers. 0.66

00:02:42.840 So it's not a one-man show.

00:02:45.360 But Maduro still wrings out money from his starving country.

00:02:48.380 Here's a cell phone video taken from a lavish party a few nights back from the Maduro family at a nightclub,

00:02:55.100 throwing American hundred, don't look at that, throwing American money around like it's confetti.

00:03:00.720 Just lavish, conspicuous consumption.

00:03:03.760 Look how rich we are.

00:03:05.580 Like if they're Saudi princes or something.

00:03:09.840 Hugo Chavez, his daughter, Chavez himself is dead now, thank God.

00:03:14.000 His daughter is the richest person in the whole country.

00:03:17.180 She stole $4.2 billion from her own people. 1.00

00:03:21.360 Meanwhile, the country is so poor that the average Venezuelan has lost nearly 20 pounds, not from a diet or exercise, but from malnutrition.

00:03:30.380 That really is North Korean style.

00:03:33.180 Countless people have fled the country as refugees pouring into neighboring countries.

00:03:37.440 Remember, this used to be the fourth richest place in the world.

00:03:40.000 Now they're fleeing for food.

00:03:41.620 But of course, the money is the least of it.

00:03:44.960 Chavez and then Maduro have been violent authoritarian tyrants, dictators in all but name, modeled in that way after Castro and weirdly after Iran and Syria.

00:03:54.040 And it's weird, the connections for more than a decade.

00:03:57.080 Iran has been colonizing Venezuela, too.

00:03:59.260 This is a news story that goes back to 2007, where they declare an axis of unity against the United States.

00:04:07.280 Independent media obviously have been shut down in Venezuela.

00:04:10.240 Even labor unions have been dissolved, unless they're a front group for the government.

00:04:14.280 No independent labor unions are allowed.

00:04:16.340 Where's the left wing up in arms about that, eh?

00:04:19.560 Political activists imprisoned.

00:04:21.140 Political parties suspended.

00:04:22.240 Obviously, property expropriated.

00:04:24.100 Violence at the hands of Chavez and Maduro and at the hands of Cuban mercenaries.

00:04:28.720 Elections obviously rigged.

00:04:30.080 Courts rigged.

00:04:31.760 It's a slow motion disaster.

00:04:33.940 And given Obama's friendship with Chavez and Obama's friendship with Iran,

00:04:36.960 did you really think that Obama would do anything about it for his eight years?

00:04:39.880 No, but this week, Donald Trump finally did something about it.

00:04:45.060 There's a democracy activist, a challenger, an opposition leader,

00:04:47.840 a genuine and legitimate president of Venezuela under their constitution.

00:04:52.000 His name is Juan Guaido.

00:04:54.720 And here he is, this week, being sworn in.

00:04:59.500 Juro.

00:05:05.880 Asumir formalmente las competencias del Ejecutivo Nacional

00:05:12.420 como el presidente encargado de Venezuela.

00:05:18.260 Para lograr el cese de la usurpación, un gobierno de transición y tener elecciones libres.

00:05:36.080 Now you'll notice he's standing on the street, not in a palace.

00:05:46.420 Of course, Maduro and Cuba say he is illegitimate.

00:05:49.580 They still hold the palace.

00:05:51.260 They still control the guns.

00:05:53.340 Mexico has sided with Maduro to its eternal disgrace.

00:05:59.800 It's siding with the tyrants.

00:06:00.940 So is Bolivia.

00:06:01.840 Never forget that.

00:06:02.720 I know we don't talk a lot about Mexico or Bolivia,

00:06:05.140 but remember on this Berlin Wall moment, Mexico stood with evil.

00:06:08.980 Don't forget that.

00:06:10.840 Obviously, Iran and Turkey side with Maduro also.

00:06:13.460 But Donald Trump weighed in.

00:06:16.560 It's a bit long, but I want to read his whole statement to you, okay?

00:06:19.120 Because it's impressive and it immediately caused so many other nations to follow Trump's leadership.

00:06:24.200 But it also shows us a little bit more about Trump's foreign policy.

00:06:26.760 Here, let me read it for you.

00:06:29.640 Today, I am officially recognizing the president of the Venezuelan National Assembly,

00:06:34.060 Juan Guaido, as the interim president of Venezuela,

00:06:36.960 in its role as the only legitimate branch of government duly elected by the Venezuelan people.

00:06:42.280 The National Assembly invoked the country's constitution to declare Nicolas Maduro illegitimate

00:06:47.600 and the office of the presidency, therefore, vacant.

00:06:50.680 The people of Venezuela have courageously spoken out against Maduro and his regime

00:06:55.160 and demanded freedom in the rule of law.

00:06:57.480 I'll read a little more.

00:06:59.280 I will continue to use the full weight of United States economic and diplomatic power

00:07:05.200 to press for the restoration of Venezuelan democracy.

00:07:07.440 We encourage other Western Hemisphere governments to recognize National Assembly President Guaido

00:07:12.340 as the interim president of Venezuela,

00:07:14.240 and we will work constructively with them in support of his efforts to restore constitutional legitimacy.

00:07:20.520 We continue to hold the illegitimate Maduro regime directly responsible for any threats

00:07:25.020 it may pose to the safety of the Venezuelan people.

00:07:27.720 As interim president Guaido noted yesterday,

00:07:30.200 violence is the usurper's weapon.

00:07:32.180 We only have one clear action,

00:07:33.700 to remain united and firm for a democratic and free Venezuela.

00:07:37.020 I think that's really pretty, isn't it?

00:07:39.080 And it's very interesting.

00:07:40.120 Uh, no soldiers being sent, no invasion being planned, no bombing, just moral suasion, economic

00:07:45.860 sanctions, diplomacy.

00:07:47.600 I think that's sort of great.

00:07:49.800 Um, now in response, Maduro, who's still in the presidential palace, he gave the U.S.

00:07:57.440 embassy notice that he is kicking out their diplomats.

00:08:01.260 Uh, that's the only country Maduro said that to.

00:08:04.120 And, um, and he had three days to get out of the country, and I guess that was a day ago.

00:08:09.720 But the United States said they do not recognize his authority to kick them out,

00:08:13.760 so they're not leaving.

00:08:16.300 So I think we've got a crazy showdown here.

00:08:20.800 Will Maduro send armed men to attack the embassy?

00:08:25.700 What if they don't leave?

00:08:28.260 I don't know.

00:08:28.780 It's a game of chicken.

00:08:29.500 It's very interesting.

00:08:30.120 Here's what Marco Rubio, the Republican senator from Florida, tweeted,

00:08:33.540 which is quite something in itself.

00:08:35.160 He said, if a Venezuela dictator, Nicolas Maduro, has any friends left,

00:08:38.980 they should give him some advice.

00:08:40.320 Don't start a fight.

00:08:41.120 You have no chance of winning.

00:08:42.340 And don't start a fight with someone who has proven he will take actions beyond what anyone

00:08:46.320 thought possible.

00:08:48.120 Yeah, that's, uh, that's something.

00:08:50.260 I don't think a senator himself has the authority to command the U.S. military.

00:08:53.900 That's the commander in chief called the president, and his name is Donald Trump.

00:08:57.520 And I think Marco Rubio described him accurately.

00:08:59.600 But if I were Maduro or Cuba or anyone, I would be thinking, what, what does it mean?

00:09:04.860 Should I believe him?

00:09:06.220 And I think we can all agree that it's between Barack Obama, who rolled over for any tyrant,

00:09:10.960 and Donald Trump, who rolls over tyrants or tames them, as he seems to be doing in North Korea.

00:09:17.240 And, um, it's best not to tangle with Donald Trump.

00:09:21.020 Um, that's China's decision these days, anyways.

00:09:25.200 I should point out that it took the full day before Canada said a peep about Venezuela.

00:09:30.480 I was checking all day yesterday on Chrystia Freeland's Twitter feed,

00:09:34.460 on the foreign policy Twitter feed, on Canada global affairs.

00:09:38.080 I was checking, checking, checking.

00:09:39.660 Now, now, Brazil's new president, Jair Bolsonaro, immediately, uh, supported the new, um,

00:09:49.540 Venezuelan interim president, called for Maduro to be ousted.

00:09:52.740 Most democracies did, including in Latin America, but not our Chrystia Freeland.

00:09:57.480 I'm not even kidding.

00:09:58.660 At the moment in question, she was too busy on this media panel,

00:10:04.500 this vanity TED Talk panel at the fancy Jet Set conference in Davos, Switzerland.

00:10:11.280 She was tweeting about that.

00:10:14.000 She was being a pundit, a chatterbox, a personality.

00:10:17.580 Venezuela was rising up for freedom.

00:10:20.080 But you see, she had this really important speaking gig,

00:10:22.380 and she had some autographs to sign afterwards,

00:10:24.180 so it was not until nighttime that she bothered to put out a statement.

00:10:28.880 Don't interrupt her.

00:10:29.960 She was on a TV panel.

00:10:32.640 What an embarrassment.

00:10:33.780 But to be honest, look, that's pretty much all Chrystia Freeland is good for, being on panels. 0.76

00:10:39.520 I mean, ask China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, India, America.

00:10:44.640 No one listens to Canada anyways these days.

00:10:46.780 So maybe it doesn't matter that our dilettante foreign minister was too busy signing autographs for millionaires

00:10:52.520 and showing off her socks or whatever she's doing than answering, um, answering her phone. 0.86

00:10:59.480 What really matters is America.

00:11:01.080 I mean, that's sad to say as a Canadian, but it's true. 1.00

00:11:04.700 And of course, what really matters are the Venezuelan people.

00:11:07.160 Here's what they have to say.

00:11:07.980 Would you look at that?

00:11:25.780 That's amazing.

00:11:26.620 I mean, unless Maduro literally was willing to murder tens of thousands of his own citizens, and maybe he is.

00:11:36.220 How could he ever stop that massive crowd as a dictator?

00:11:40.640 That's got to be close to 100,000 people.

00:11:42.720 And that was just one partial view of the streets in a neighborhood in Caracas.

00:11:45.980 I think those people would overwhelm any police force, even unarmed, the people would.

00:11:53.240 That's the people speaking.

00:11:54.360 That's amazing.

00:11:54.960 That really made me feel like the Berlin Wall was falling in its own way in Venezuela.

00:12:00.340 I just felt great to see that.

00:12:02.440 Now, Maduro supporters, they asked for rallies of his side.

00:12:07.760 They asked people who support Maduro to rally around the presidential palace to show support to Maduro, to the world, and maybe, I don't know, act as some sort of human shield or something.

00:12:19.400 I think that's probably what they wanted.

00:12:20.780 But here's a video taken last night outside the presidential palace called Mila Flores.

00:12:27.560 You'll see there's no one there.

00:12:29.460 There's not a single citizen.

00:12:32.020 That's the gates of the presidential palace.

00:12:34.140 Not a single citizen was there to defend the tyrant or even stand by him.

00:12:39.260 None!

00:12:40.880 That's amazing.

00:12:43.140 To the contrary, here's a video of people overrunning Chavez's party headquarters.

00:12:48.600 The PSUV, that's Maduro's political party.

00:12:51.480 Take a look at this.

00:12:52.340 How exciting is that?

00:12:57.800 2nd July, on the Kassar ofي.

00:13:00.000 How exciting is that?

00:13:18.860 That sort of reminds me of when Iraqis ransacked Saddam's palaces.

00:13:23.780 Or when in East Germany people ransacked the Stasi headquarters.

00:13:29.060 It's hard to tell, but I think it's organic and genuine.

00:13:32.460 And it's not orchestrated or uniform.

00:13:34.780 It doesn't seem that way.

00:13:36.020 You can't orchestrate something as big as that huge Caracas rally.

00:13:39.420 That's got to be real.

00:13:41.060 Here's just some random cell phone.

00:13:43.340 The subway station.

00:13:45.280 You know, people are chanting and cheering.

00:13:48.280 And it just really feels genuine to me from my perch here thousands of miles away.

00:13:53.700 I think people have just had enough.

00:13:55.780 And maybe they see that change is possible.

00:13:58.220 And maybe they're giving each other courage.

00:14:00.320 And the fact that strangers are united in this moment of solidarity.

00:14:04.220 Maybe they heard about Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil and the changes he's making there.

00:14:08.140 So maybe they think they can be another way forward for Venezuela too.

00:14:11.600 And they don't have to become an Iran-Cuba colony.

00:14:14.160 They can be free.

00:14:15.240 Maybe they're inspired by him.

00:14:16.440 I don't know.

00:14:16.780 I like that the Empire State Building is in Venezuelan colors.

00:14:21.320 What do you think of that?

00:14:22.960 I like that half of Miami and Venezuelans around the world are excited about rebuilding their home.

00:14:29.940 Maybe even returning home from exile.

00:14:32.120 I mean, listen, if you're in Miami, you don't want to leave.

00:14:34.280 But to also rebuild your home, there's a lot better prospect of turning Venezuela around. 1.00

00:14:40.660 Then say turning Afghanistan into a vibrant, prosperous, safe, liberal democracy.

00:14:47.520 Spoiler alert, you will never turn Afghanistan into a vibrant, prosperous, safe, liberal democracy. 0.92

00:14:54.520 But you can with Venezuela because it already was once and not even that long ago. 0.97

00:15:01.380 And surely not one American soldier needs to die to accomplish that.

00:15:06.160 And obviously no Canadians would help. 1.00

00:15:08.000 Trudeau would never send troops to do something like liberate a place.

00:15:12.580 He's got us off in Mali right now, a place that is a failed state.

00:15:16.460 And it will never be right, but he wants to virtue signal there.

00:15:21.060 Him and Christopher Freeland are a perfect fit, aren't they?

00:15:23.160 Now, of course, it's not over yet.

00:15:26.400 Here's a political leader on the side of democracy, Maria Corina Machado. 0.99

00:15:31.400 And she says, and we've clicked the translate button here.

00:15:34.980 This is her tweet.

00:15:35.660 She's got a huge following.

00:15:37.800 She says,

00:15:38.440 Nicolas Maduro is responsible for the violence unleashed in several cities today.

00:15:41.920 17 Venezuelans murdered, dozens wounded, and more than 70 detainees.

00:15:46.060 This is how the criminal regime acts in its collapse.

00:15:48.620 My solidarity and prayers with the families of the victims.

00:15:50.960 There will be justice.

00:15:53.160 That's the translation of her tweet.

00:15:57.120 I have no doubt that's true that Maduro and the Cuban mercenaries, and who knows, maybe 0.97

00:16:01.960 there's even some Iranian, you know, mercenaries.

00:16:05.940 I don't know.

00:16:06.200 We don't know the full extent of what the secret police are doing.

00:16:12.560 I would be surprised if they tried to assassinate the interim acting president, but I wouldn't be shocked.

00:16:22.600 Or I would be shocked but not surprised.

00:16:25.440 But freedom is coming to Venezuela.

00:16:28.500 I believe that.

00:16:29.360 I really believe that.

00:16:30.780 I want to believe that.

00:16:32.760 But I think things are different now.

00:16:34.520 Obama's gone.

00:16:35.160 Trump is in.

00:16:35.740 Bolsonaro's there.

00:16:36.460 Look at those people on the streets.

00:16:38.420 At this point, I was planning to show you a list of North American celebrities who have lavished love and praise on Chavez and Maduro over the years and said he was a role model.

00:16:48.440 Sean Pan, Oliver Stone, most of Hollywood, it's gross, it's awful, political leaders from Bob Ray in Ontario to Bernie Sanders.

00:16:57.180 Here's one I hate the most.

00:16:58.860 This is one of Rachel Notley's, MLA's Rod Loyola.

00:17:02.320 Look at what he said.

00:17:05.340 Long live Hugo Chavez.

00:17:07.600 Long live the values that he stood for.

00:17:11.800 Compañero Presidente Hugo Chavez.

00:17:14.460 Yeah, I'm not one to talk about being fat, but you can tell he hasn't lived on the Nicolas Maduro malnutrition diet, has he?

00:17:25.080 But today is not the day for Rod Loyola's disgrace and Rachel Notley's disgrace.

00:17:30.040 She who for years wore the Che Guevara watch and the disgrace of Nikki Ashton, the NDP member of parliament who's taking Venezuela's side against America. 0.95

00:17:39.760 Today is not the day for their disgrace.

00:17:41.820 There will be plenty of time to talk about their disgrace.

00:17:44.060 Their collusion in the crimes of Chavez and Maduro.

00:17:47.860 But today, for now, let us focus on whose day it is, the people of Venezuela, and let us put our hopes and prayers with them in these dangerous days.

00:17:57.260 Stay with us.

00:17:57.820 More on this with Joseph Humeyer next.

00:17:59.360 Juro.

00:18:19.220 Asumir formalmente las competencias

00:18:21.400 del Ejecutivo Nacional

00:18:25.280 como el presidente encargado de Venezuela.

00:18:31.080 Para lograr el cese de la usurpación, un gobierno de transición y tener elecciones libres.

00:18:48.960 Bueno, there you have it, an incredibly exciting day, Juan Guaido being sworn in as the new president of Venezuela.

00:19:03.880 But the tyrant, Nicolas Maduro, refuses to let go.

00:19:08.680 Massive protests in the streets, reports of Maduro loyalists murdering protesters.

00:19:17.480 Cuba and countries of that sort standing with Maduro, Mexico to their great discredit.

00:19:22.880 But the United States, and I'm pleased to say Canada, Brazil, and others standing with president,

00:19:31.420 I don't know what you would call him because he has not yet taken power.

00:19:34.680 President Guaido joining us now is someone who has helped us navigate this important issue

00:19:39.060 for more than four years, I think.

00:19:42.680 Our friend Joseph Humeyer, the executive director of the Secure Free Society.

00:19:46.060 And he actually joins us from El Salvador, where he is today.

00:19:52.140 Joseph, thank you for fitting us in.

00:19:53.980 I know you're so busy.

00:19:55.840 And part of what keeps you busy is generating support for the removal of the tyrant Nicolas Maduro.

00:20:03.200 Thank you for being here today.

00:20:05.160 Thank you, Ezra.

00:20:06.080 It's a pleasure to be on.

00:20:07.160 It's an important time to talk about Venezuela and Latin America.

00:20:10.400 One of the reasons I'm in El Salvador is because there's going to be an election here

00:20:14.160 in about a little over a week, on February 3rd, where there's an important inflection point

00:20:19.180 where the Salvadorians, much like many Latin Americans,

00:20:22.060 have decided whether they want to go in the direction of peace and prosperity

00:20:25.100 or they want to have more Venezuelas that are under consideration.

00:20:30.420 So it's an important time to thank you for having me on the show.

00:20:32.960 Yeah, well, it's great to have you.

00:20:34.140 And you have helped us understand Venezuela, its connections to Cuba, its connections to Iran.

00:20:40.080 I think a lot of people are unaware of how Venezuela has actually become colonized by other powers.

00:20:48.500 I mean, it makes sense to me that Cuba would prop up their ally,

00:20:53.260 especially the ally that gave them cheap oil after the fall of the Soviet Union.

00:20:57.440 But remind our viewers about Iran.

00:21:01.020 And I see that Turkey is standing with Maduro now.

00:21:05.140 Those are folks that you wouldn't imagine would be mucking around in the Western Hemisphere.

00:21:09.020 Yeah, that's a great point.

00:21:11.560 And I think one of the things that I think everyone needs to understand, particularly your viewership,

00:21:14.920 is that the Bolivarian Revolution, which is what brought the Maduro regime

00:21:19.140 and the Chavez regime before that into power, has a lot of history behind it.

00:21:24.000 And that history actually looks not so much like Cuba and looks a lot like Syria.

00:21:28.880 One of the things that I've learned through our studies is that

00:21:31.040 had a lot to do more with the extension of pan-Arab nationalism

00:21:35.540 that was at the height of conflicts in the Middle East throughout the 20th century,

00:21:39.100 using the same tactics of insurgency and infiltration,

00:21:42.020 be able to create this kind of phenomenon of democratic dictatorships,

00:21:46.020 which they did very much in the Middle East,

00:21:47.800 and exported that to Latin America and Venezuela being one of those countries that adopted that methodology.

00:21:52.420 That's very different than Cuba, which was more of a guerrilla warfare tactic

00:21:55.600 to create communist control over a country.

00:21:57.680 So I think that's one of the things that we have to examine when we look at Venezuela,

00:22:01.260 because it's not like Cuba.

00:22:02.820 It's much different than Cuba.

00:22:04.580 It's not like anything we've seen really in Latin America before.

00:22:07.580 And it's a lot more like conflicts we've seen in the Middle East, namely a conflict in Syria.

00:22:11.140 If you were to define the Syrian conflict,

00:22:13.020 it's a humanitarian crisis with the world's largest refugees outflows

00:22:16.440 and a large control of Turkey, Iran, Russia, and Hezbollah.

00:22:19.780 That definition now fits Venezuela, and that's not by coincidence.

00:22:23.520 Well, that's very—I mean, I remember the first time I heard that,

00:22:25.820 I thought, what, that can't be right, but of course, Ahmadinejad and Rouhani,

00:22:30.140 they are really Maduro's most vocal and powerful allies in many ways.

00:22:34.480 Now, let's talk about Donald Trump,

00:22:36.600 because I think when he and when Vice President Mike Pence said,

00:22:40.440 we stand with Juan Guaido, that is a change,

00:22:45.900 not just from Trump's last two years of relative silence,

00:22:49.120 but obviously from the eight years of Barack Obama.

00:22:52.360 I'll never get it out of my head, that image of Barack Obama warmly greeting Hugo Chavez,

00:22:59.220 not just with a handshake, but almost like a high-five type embrace.

00:23:03.620 And you can see that on the screen here, a very famous photo,

00:23:07.960 Obama praising Maduro, and in the background—so, praising Chavez,

00:23:12.280 and in the background was the successor to Hugo Chavez, Nicolas Maduro.

00:23:15.560 It's obvious why the parties of the left in America and Canada and around the world supported Chavez and Maduro.

00:23:25.180 Let me ask you, is there a backlash to America and other Western democracies standing with Guaido?

00:23:32.380 Will that be used by Maduro to say,

00:23:34.340 oh, you see, Yankee imperialists, we all must unite against the evil Donald Trump?

00:23:40.520 I told you there's meddlers in Venezuela, but it's not Cuba and Iran.

00:23:44.720 The meddler is in America. Yankee, go home. Is that a risk? 0.99

00:23:48.080 Well, that's always—I mean, that's going to happen regardless.

00:23:50.500 That's going to happen whether we do nothing, whether we say nothing.

00:23:53.300 And that's been the policy of previous administrations,

00:23:55.160 to kind of just not talk about Maduro and then Chavez before him.

00:23:58.160 And that doesn't stop them from talking about you.

00:24:00.440 I don't think we have to worry too much about what Maduro says,

00:24:02.500 because he's going to say what he wants to say regardless.

00:24:04.780 I think what we have to take into consideration, though,

00:24:06.900 is that the time, the moment right now is at an inflection point in Venezuela,

00:24:11.460 where you have two presidents that are completely opposed

00:24:17.000 from different alliances and recognition in the international community.

00:24:19.980 One president, the legitimate president, Juan Guaido,

00:24:22.880 who's the interim president, is backed up not just by the Venezuelan constitution,

00:24:27.140 Article 233 of the Constitution, that backed them up constitutionally.

00:24:31.240 It also has the alliance—it has the recognition of 50 countries in the international community,

00:24:35.800 most of the countries that actually respect the democratic norms of sovereign states.

00:24:40.520 Maduro, on the other hand, has the backing of his own 50-plus countries,

00:24:43.540 but those are mostly anti-democratic countries, anti-U.S. countries, anti-Israel countries.

00:24:48.380 Turkey, such as Iran, non-aligned movement, as they're called in 77 countries,

00:24:52.440 which Venezuela is actually the acting president of.

00:24:54.660 So what we're looking at is a confrontation that's happening,

00:24:56.640 where the crisis in Venezuela is moving to more of a conflict.

00:24:59.040 And we have to be very careful, because that could quickly devolve into a civil war,

00:25:02.640 which would not be good for anybody.

00:25:04.620 Well, that's right.

00:25:05.260 I mean, I saw yesterday that Maduro told the U.S. Embassy they have three days to get out of town.

00:25:13.440 And I saw that Secretary of State Pompeo said,

00:25:17.260 yeah, no, we're not leaving, we no longer regard you as the constitutional president of Venezuela.

00:25:24.540 That's quite a game of chicken, because, I mean, you've got this little compound in Caracas of the American interests,

00:25:32.780 and you presumably have the entire Venezuelan army and its Cuban and perhaps Iranian reinforcements.

00:25:40.980 Like, to say, no, we're not leaving, that is raising the stakes.

00:25:46.440 How will this end?

00:25:47.380 Because, I mean, from what I can tell, Maduro still has most of the guns.

00:25:50.980 And even though some of the police and soldiers have defected to the people,

00:25:55.280 I think he's still in control of most of the violence.

00:25:58.720 So what's going to happen in the next 48 hours?

00:26:01.300 Look, this is a very precarious time.

00:26:03.520 It's very sensitive.

00:26:04.580 We have to see what scenarios play out.

00:26:07.060 It's curious to me that out of the 50-plus countries that don't recognize that the girls are legitimate president, 1.00

00:26:11.920 he only wants to kick out the United States.

00:26:13.560 So that's a little bit interesting and of its own right.

00:26:16.800 But I think the Trump administration is going to test the resolve of the Maduro regime.

00:26:20.300 They're going to see how far he wants to really claim his stake to power,

00:26:23.300 or if he wants to look for a negotiated solution now.

00:26:26.040 I see one of three different scenarios happening.

00:26:27.760 I see one scenario where the military rises up and tries to attack the regime

00:26:31.680 with the constitutional backing of the legitimate president, Juan Guaido.

00:26:36.160 But that's a very dangerous situation because, as you know, the Cubans, the ELN guerrillas,

00:26:41.740 the Hezbollah networks, the Cuban—there's all these kind of armed non-state actors

00:26:47.000 that are willing to defend the regime in Venezuela.

00:26:49.520 And so that creates a situation for more bloodshed and a real type of civil war.

00:26:52.860 The other scenario is that there's a negotiated solution to have to take from Maduro

00:26:57.380 discussions through Russia, Turkey, Cuba.

00:27:01.540 And so I think those actors will get more involved.

00:27:03.180 Matter of fact, I have information that says that Erwan himself wants to get involved

00:27:06.800 in mediating the Venezuelan conflict and that the regime, the Venezuelan regime,

00:27:10.460 is preparing to do that.

00:27:11.720 But I see it as a trick because I know that, you know, Erwan is not a friend of the United States,

00:27:16.360 and he's been doing a lot of these kind of underhanded shenanigans in the Middle East

00:27:20.060 and just extending that to Latin America is not good.

00:27:21.880 And then the final solution is that basically the Maduro just cracked down in 12,

00:27:25.220 like he's done in 2017 and 14 before him, and just does a countrywide crackdown

00:27:28.900 and clamps down, and that'll seal his dictatorship in the country,

00:27:32.680 which presents all kinds of other different scenarios.

00:27:35.180 So none of these scenarios are good, but that's likely something's going to happen.

00:27:39.580 You can count on that.

00:27:40.500 Something's going to happen that this tension isn't just going to wither away.

00:27:44.540 Yeah.

00:27:45.180 You know, one of the things that you and I have talked about over the years,

00:27:49.000 and we've had other experts on Venezuela, I was thrilled yesterday.

00:27:53.520 I felt like in a small way it was like the Berlin Wall came down,

00:27:57.740 and I know that most Canadians are not as attentive to Venezuela

00:28:00.980 as they would have been to, you know, Europe for a lot of good reasons.

00:28:05.940 But I mean, 30 million people, 32 million or whatever the population is,

00:28:10.440 for the first time in decades have a chance of freedom.

00:28:13.220 And I felt exhilarated, and when I saw those images of the crowds in the street,

00:28:18.460 I thought that there's no going back.

00:28:20.500 And you know what?

00:28:21.920 The West has been so involved in Arabia and Iran and Afghanistan

00:28:26.360 and all these godforsaken places, and here's Venezuela, 1.00

00:28:30.880 a Western country, literally, Christian country,

00:28:35.320 liberal country in its people, educated country, industrialized country.

00:28:39.200 Surely, of all the places for us to help and weigh in,

00:28:43.280 these are people we must help.

00:28:45.520 And I'm not saying America should put boots on the ground,

00:28:47.900 but we should do everything Canada to.

00:28:51.320 I just was telling you emotionally, I felt thrilled to see this.

00:28:55.660 I want to ask you one more question,

00:28:57.600 because very recently Brazil made an important course change.

00:29:04.560 We've talked about it a little bit on the show.

00:29:06.000 Yair Bolsonaro, who I would say is anti-communist,

00:29:10.620 not just pro-freedom, but he's aggressively against the kind of Latin America 0.51

00:29:16.840 that Maduro and Chavez would support.

00:29:20.680 And I saw Bolsonaro in Davos, Switzerland,

00:29:24.760 really pushing for freedom in Venezuela.

00:29:27.820 And I was excited.

00:29:28.860 I thought, well, imagine if it was Brazil and then Venezuela,

00:29:31.960 and maybe we could see a new era of freedom and prosperity and democracy in Latin America.

00:29:37.240 I don't know.

00:29:37.560 I just don't know enough about it, which is why I'm relying on you.

00:29:40.760 And you're in El Salvador right now, and you say there's a big election coming there.

00:29:44.440 How does this all fit together?

00:29:45.720 I'm sorry for the long question, but I just see so much hope,

00:29:48.620 and I'm nervous also.

00:29:49.760 Well, I think we have to remain hopeful.

00:29:54.160 I mean, there's no other option.

00:29:56.020 We have to stay hopeful with Venezuela.

00:29:57.740 We have to stay hopeful with all of Latin America and the world,

00:29:59.700 the people that are trying to rise up against oppression on any corner of the world.

00:30:03.520 And I think Venezuela is the most recent example.

00:30:05.860 However, we can't underestimate our adversary.

00:30:08.060 We have to know who we're fighting against,

00:30:10.200 and we have to know what their strategic intents are.

00:30:12.760 And I just came from Brazil.

00:30:13.900 I was in Brazil for a week, and I met with many people in the Bolsonaro team

00:30:17.120 at the beginning of what is the criminal civic military insurgency structure

00:30:24.980 of the Venezuelan regime.

00:30:27.020 Until we understand that, it's hard to know how to attack it.

00:30:29.940 And I don't think Brazil is going to be very prudent on how it acts

00:30:33.360 and not going to be reckless, as some may have suggested, on how they maneuver.

00:30:37.200 But it's awesome to have an ally like Brazil, a very powerful country,

00:30:40.260 a big country that can count on to basically stand up to the regime.

00:30:43.900 That said, my main point to everybody is that while we focus so much on the regime,

00:30:49.560 we cannot forget about the revolution.

00:30:51.220 Regimes come and go.

00:30:52.300 They change faces.

00:30:53.500 But revolutions remain.

00:30:54.920 And the revolution is advancing through the exportation of the refugees. 1.00

00:30:59.560 And we have to contain the refugee crisis first before we move anything else. 1.00

00:31:03.480 We have to understand that the Venezuelan regime wants the conflict.

00:31:07.320 All their international backers, Turkey, Iran, Russia,

00:31:09.780 they're all in precarious economic situations.

00:31:11.780 They want this conflict because they prefer to drag the United States 0.97

00:31:14.960 into another proxy conflict, much like Syria, than to fight their own battles at home.

00:31:19.240 And so in that sense, we have to be very careful not to engage in a traditional conflict,

00:31:23.260 asymmetric conflict.

00:31:24.400 That's what we're working on here in Latin America,

00:31:26.040 because we need allies to do it.

00:31:27.500 And Brazil is at the top of the list.

00:31:29.120 You know, you just made me think of the Arab Spring,

00:31:31.280 which had the outward appearance of being some sort of democracy movement,

00:31:34.840 but it actually was an Islamist movement in Egypt in particular and other places.

00:31:40.980 And you've terrified me because you're right.

00:31:42.900 Pushing out, destabilizing the refugee flood, 1.00

00:31:48.300 that would turn Latin America, South America,

00:31:52.460 into what Syria and other countries were like.

00:31:56.800 Just very scary stuff.

00:31:58.860 We're going to find out pretty soon, I guess.

00:32:05.200 I have one last question for you.

00:32:07.360 And it's based on what I think I know about Maduro,

00:32:10.340 which is he loves money.

00:32:13.220 He loves to eat.

00:32:14.300 He loves wealth.

00:32:16.200 There's this famous video of him going to, speaking of Turkey,

00:32:19.040 going to a Turkish steakhouse by a famous,

00:32:23.880 a bit of a steakhouse celebrity, Salt Bay is his nickname.

00:32:27.680 And your average Venezuelan has lost almost 20 pounds from malnutrition.

00:32:33.380 And there's Maduro with this celebrity chef

00:32:36.360 cutting up succulent cuts of beef in a theatrical way

00:32:40.100 and sprinkling salt.

00:32:41.520 It was a bit of an Internet sensation, this Salt Bay.

00:32:44.180 And I'm not even blaming the restaurateur.

00:32:47.380 I mean, you serve whoever comes in your restaurant.

00:32:49.140 But for Maduro to feast on probably what was a $1,000 dinner

00:32:53.900 while his own people are starving.

00:32:56.060 So here's my question.

00:32:58.680 Maybe someone says, look, Maduro, go to Havana.

00:33:02.380 Go to Istanbul.

00:33:05.100 Take your money with you.

00:33:06.820 Take your family with you.

00:33:08.560 Live in a luxury mansion.

00:33:10.160 Have the rest of your life in retirement as a billionaire.

00:33:14.660 You'll be a rogue.

00:33:15.680 You won't be allowed to travel much.

00:33:17.880 But you'll have your life and your money.

00:33:20.220 Get out.

00:33:20.900 And that's really what you care about, money.

00:33:22.540 Go into exile and end this problem nonviolently.

00:33:26.600 Do you think that's a possibility to appeal to his ego and wealth and selfishness?

00:33:33.060 Well, I don't think that he's going to make it or what we try to portray to him.

00:33:38.760 He's going to make a decision in concert with his international backers.

00:33:41.400 And Turkey is one of those. 0.86

00:33:42.420 I mean, I do see a scenario where Maduro goes to live off the rest of his days in some type

00:33:46.440 of protection in Istanbul under the Turkish government.

00:33:49.320 And that might be what Erdogan wants to do when he comes down to Venezuela.

00:33:52.280 But I'm not worried about Nicolas Maduro.

00:33:54.060 Nicolas Maduro doesn't even control Venezuela.

00:33:56.020 I'm worried about other people in the Venezuelan regime that are more important than Nicolas

00:33:58.920 Maduro, such as Tarek Al-Asami.

00:34:00.660 Tarek Al-Asami has much more power control over the armed forces, over the economy, over

00:34:05.580 the natural resources of the country.

00:34:07.140 And he has a threat network that extends all the way into the Middle East and all throughout

00:34:11.940 Latin America that's much more dangerous than Nicolas Maduro.

00:34:15.000 So what will we do with Tarek Al-Asami and then all the other individuals that are in

00:34:19.120 the regime?

00:34:19.520 We've got about 250 individuals in the high command of the regime that are either narco

00:34:23.400 traffickers, military commanders, or corrupt politicians that control that country.

00:34:28.160 One individual isn't good enough.

00:34:30.680 There has to be a clean slate.

00:34:32.440 Isn't that amazing?

00:34:33.240 And I remember we've talked before about that Tarek Al-Asami, I forget his last name.

00:34:38.580 He's the vice president, isn't he?

00:34:42.000 Is that right?

00:34:42.620 He's the vice president with ties.

00:34:45.120 He controls the mines.

00:34:46.860 Yeah, we don't have time to go deep on that again.

00:34:49.880 But I remember when you showed us his connections to Syria, and I couldn't believe it.

00:34:54.980 But it's true.

00:34:56.420 Well, listen, Joseph, you've given me a good dose of reality.

00:35:00.320 We're definitely not through this yet.

00:35:01.800 But let's close on an optimistic note.

00:35:03.960 Will you say, would you agree with me, that for the first time in more than a decade, there's

00:35:08.580 a real chance Venezuela will be free?

00:35:12.020 The Berlin Wall has not fallen yet, but it's wobbling.

00:35:16.680 Well, this is the time to fight.

00:35:18.860 And I think that it's not going to be a kinetic fight.

00:35:20.640 It's not going to be a physical fight.

00:35:22.000 But it's an ideological fight.

00:35:23.300 And I think in Latin America, I'm part of this group of people that are going around trying

00:35:27.180 to make sure that we build allies that are going to fight this fight.

00:35:29.220 So it is the time for that.

00:35:30.980 And I'll share the optimism that, you know, we can win this.

00:35:34.340 So I definitely think that this is something that we're going to be flying to.

00:35:37.180 And I hope the Trump administration and any other administration stands behind it.

00:35:41.420 Well, thank you so much.

00:35:42.540 I won't keep another minute of your time because I know you're doing such important work in

00:35:46.540 El Salvador trying to get that country on the right track.

00:35:49.040 And I really hope and I'm not really a religious person, but I tell you, in my own way, I'm

00:35:55.180 praying for the success of this peaceful democratic revolution.

00:36:01.040 And there's so many people whose lives are at stake right now.

00:36:04.980 And it's I think it's the most important story in the world.

00:36:07.920 And I thank you for over the years giving our viewers a bit of insight that I know they

00:36:12.540 wouldn't have got anywhere else.

00:36:13.560 So thank you to you, Joseph.

00:36:14.900 You've been a lonely fighter on this when others have turned away.

00:36:19.240 So I want to congratulate you for for the I know you're not on the ground there, but

00:36:23.440 indirectly, you've helped shape this moment in your own way.

00:36:26.580 So thank you to you and your team.

00:36:29.240 Thank you.

00:36:29.800 It's always a pleasure.

00:36:30.580 And thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk about this.

00:36:33.060 All right.

00:36:33.380 Well, stay safe, my friend.

00:36:35.500 Well, all right.

00:36:36.540 That's our friend Joseph Humeyer.

00:36:37.880 We've talked to him.

00:36:38.740 He's from the, of course, the Secure Free Society.

00:36:41.580 And he's the executive director of that organization.

00:36:43.860 Quite often when we talk to him, he's in Washington, D.C.

00:36:46.560 But as you heard, he just came from Brazil and he's in El Salvador.

00:36:50.020 And of course, we were talking about Venezuela.

00:36:52.480 Stay with us.

00:36:53.060 More ahead on The Rebel.

00:37:05.760 Hey, welcome back on my monologue yesterday.

00:37:07.620 Betty writes, so the liberals are willing to sell Canada and Canadians out to the Chinese 0.98

00:37:12.000 as long as they can make money for themselves.

00:37:14.980 Betty, I think that's part of it.

00:37:16.480 You cannot deny that's part of it.

00:37:17.720 When Jean Chrétien goes to work for Desmarais and the Chinese conglomerates five weeks after

00:37:23.140 stepping down as PM, yeah, it's about the money.

00:37:26.120 And Peter Harder, who's Justin Trudeau's leader in the Senate, China man.

00:37:31.420 Um, yeah, absolutely.

00:37:34.980 Um, but it's not just money.

00:37:37.860 There's a romance of the third world.

00:37:40.300 There's an admiration for that authoritarian style.

00:37:43.200 Justin Trudeau, little potato, like his father, admires strong men.

00:37:47.980 That's why they love Castro.

00:37:49.120 That's why they love the Chinese.

00:37:50.320 That's why they love the Soviets. 0.95

00:37:51.780 I think it's really gross.

00:37:52.760 And, um, I remember there was a moment there where the liberal party tried to pass itself

00:37:58.360 off as the party of human rights.

00:37:59.940 I don't think anyone believes that anymore.

00:38:01.920 Do you?

00:38:03.620 Stephen writes, McCallum should be fired, but the liberals never fire anyone.

00:38:08.140 Yeah.

00:38:09.060 Oh, you're so right.

00:38:10.440 You're so right.

00:38:11.600 I mean, um, they won't, they don't fire people, but I, I, I want to say, I disagree with

00:38:19.980 you one level deeper because to think that John McCallum, former cabinet minister, longtime

00:38:25.620 MP, um, senior hand, political guy, to think that he would have done that as on his own

00:38:35.080 or as a rogue, to think that he would have called a press conference with only Chinese

00:38:41.120 media, specifically said those very particular arguments, to think he would have done that

00:38:48.200 without consulting or rather being directed from the PMO is, I think, to be naive.

00:38:56.820 Um, of course he said it because he's the China ambassador to China, but of course, Justin

00:39:02.180 Trudeau and Gerald Butts approved it.

00:39:03.660 And you saw that in that Trudeau did not disown it.

00:39:07.520 Don't pretend for a second.

00:39:09.400 Those words weren't scripted by Gerald Butts or Trudeau couldn't even write such big words,

00:39:13.940 but the Gerald Butts and the PMO scripted, of course he did.

00:39:16.540 Barbara Barb writes, McCallum handles his new position like he did while the immigration

00:39:22.380 minister, a complete farce and joke.

00:39:26.000 Yeah.

00:39:26.640 Yeah.

00:39:27.120 Uh, I just, I don't understand it other than some of the things I said a moment ago about

00:39:34.520 the liberals are enthralled with money.

00:39:36.460 I mean, let me say this.

00:39:37.400 So many, uh, being stationed in the Canadian embassy in Beijing is considered a prize, uh,

00:39:47.880 station, a prize position in Canadian diplomacy.

00:39:51.060 And here's why.

00:39:51.900 I mean, obviously it's interesting.

00:39:53.400 Obviously it's important work.

00:39:55.120 Um, I've been to China.

00:39:57.520 I found it very interesting.

00:39:58.680 I wouldn't call it a vacation to go there, but it's interesting.

00:40:01.740 But if you spend, let's say two years or five years in Beijing interfacing between the Canadian

00:40:09.560 government and the Chinese government, you're going to meet a lot of companies on both sides

00:40:15.220 that want to do business.

00:40:16.200 A lot of regulators, a lot of politicians, a lot of communist party insiders.

00:40:19.960 You're going to have a very powerful Rolodex.

00:40:23.620 And if you retire after five years, well, now you have a reputation of being an insider,

00:40:31.800 a connected guy.

00:40:32.840 And let's say you were making, I don't know, a hundred thousand dollars a year as some counselor

00:40:36.980 in the embassy.

00:40:38.760 Well, now you can bill yourself out at a thousand dollars an hour or more.

00:40:44.800 You can get a cut of deals and you know the inside track.

00:40:48.700 And so, so many former diplomats who serve a term in Beijing, then turn tables, go to

00:40:56.720 the other side and go to make money on the Chinese side or the Chinese Canadian business

00:41:00.960 side.

00:41:02.140 Don't think that that same thinking didn't apply to Jean-Claude Chen as prime minister

00:41:07.060 and isn't in John McCallum's mind.

00:41:09.800 Maurice Strong used to be the head of Ontario Hydro, used to be the deputy secretary general

00:41:16.980 of the UN.

00:41:17.400 He was the mastermind behind Kyoto.

00:41:19.580 He was a Canadian.

00:41:21.980 In his later years, he moved to China for the absolute total economic score.

00:41:29.420 That is absolutely on the minds of liberal party members today.

00:41:35.320 Let me throw one thing at you before I go.

00:41:39.120 I should tell you that Huawei, the Chinese company, has made donations all over the place

00:41:45.280 in Canada, including to Canada 2020, which is sort of the Trudeau in-house think tank.

00:41:52.620 So Huawei has donated money to a Justin Trudeau front group called Canada 2020.

00:41:57.900 That is a fact.

00:41:59.060 Folks, that's it for today.

00:42:00.820 If you're still with me, I would invite you to tune in to StandWithTheRebel.com because

00:42:07.400 I have news today.

00:42:08.160 We have filed our appeal to the courts in Alberta against the $5,500 proposed fine being levied

00:42:17.620 against us by Rachel Notley's censors.

00:42:19.600 You can read the entire 10-page appeal at StandWithTheRebel.com.

00:42:23.480 I encourage you to do so.

00:42:24.980 And just hours after we filed that, we got a kooky, kooky letter from the election commissioner

00:42:29.640 saying, oh, guys, we didn't really mean it.

00:42:32.180 Please don't appeal.

00:42:33.060 Please, please, please, please don't take this to a real court.

00:42:35.740 It's a crazy letter, and you'll see that at StandWithTheRebel.com also.

00:42:40.800 Until tomorrow, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters, good night, and

00:42:44.700 keep fighting for freedom from Caracas to Calgary.

00:42:48.860 Bye-bye.

00:42:49.400 Bye-bye.

00:42:49.460 Bye-bye.

Rebel News Podcast - January 25, 2019

It's Venezuela's “Berlin Wall moment” — but will Maduro hold on to power？

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