Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1291 ｜ Warning to Churches： Here’s What’s Coming Your Way

00:00:00.720 Black Lives Matter stormed into a church in Minnesota over the weekend.

00:00:04.980 Who is really behind this?

00:00:06.680 Why is this being orchestrated?

00:00:08.300 What is this about?

00:00:09.440 And why are some Christian leaders silent or on the complete opposite side of where they should be?

00:00:17.320 Also, I'll be responding to a James Tallarico interview that he gave to the New York Times saying,

00:00:23.160 Jesus wants us to be a welfare state and to support abortion.

00:00:27.480 Yikes.

00:00:27.940 We've got all of this and more on today's episode of Relatable.

00:00:39.800 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable.

00:00:41.380 Happy Wednesday.

00:00:42.400 Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far.

00:00:44.580 This was take two of that introduction because I accidentally started by saying happy Monday

00:00:49.200 because we didn't have our typical episode on Monday.

00:00:52.280 This is the first time that I'm getting to talk to you live this week or a new episode this week.

00:00:57.660 So I didn't get the chance to tell you on Monday something super important for you to know.

00:01:02.020 This is an announcement that I need you to hear right now.

00:01:06.220 And it's that God's eternal plan of redemption is going off without a hitch.

00:01:09.180 Oh, my goodness.

00:01:09.980 I am so thankful to wake up to that reality every single morning as we turn on the news or we look at X or we look at Instagram

00:01:17.700 and we are just overwhelmed with all of the takes and all of the information and disinformation

00:01:22.240 and trying to wade through what is true and what is not, what is good and what is bad.

00:01:27.080 I am hoping to add as much clarity as I possibly can to some of those conversations today about immigration

00:01:34.420 and what is really going on with ICE, what was happening in Minnesota.

00:01:37.960 But I just want to remind you what I'm always reminding myself, that God is totally in charge.

00:01:43.880 And one day there will be no more propaganda campaigns.

00:01:46.940 There will be no more fake news and there will be no more injustice.

00:01:50.720 There will be no more oppression.

00:01:52.580 There will be no more deceit, no more elections, no more politicians, because Jesus is king.

00:01:58.180 And one day that will be manifested completely and totally.

00:02:02.200 And there will be no more enemy of goodness and righteousness and truth.

00:02:06.740 And we will live in perfect peace and harmony and joy with him forever and ever.

00:02:11.700 Amen.

00:02:12.620 And if that is not your future hope, I want you to know that by grace, through faith in Jesus,

00:02:19.100 that can be your future hope.

00:02:21.460 All of us are sinners.

00:02:22.640 All of us, because of that, are separated from God.

00:02:25.360 And God loved us so much that he made a way for us to be reconciled to him, to be saved,

00:02:30.460 to be cleansed of all sin.

00:02:31.700 And that is by sending his son, Jesus, to die on a cross for our sins, to pay that ultimate

00:02:35.940 sacrifice so that we can be in relationship with God, both here on earth and to be free from

00:02:41.280 the shackles of sin and also to have joy and peace and eternity with him forever and ever.

00:02:47.660 So that is the good news.

00:02:48.940 We're going to talk about some difficult news today, but I want to start us out with the

00:02:53.220 best news ever, and that is the gospel.

00:02:55.860 If you don't have a Bible and you really want the study Bible that I use, you could reach

00:03:02.340 out to us.

00:03:03.020 I don't have an unlimited supply of that, but I will try to pick a couple of you and send

00:03:07.960 you a Bible if you don't already have one.

00:03:09.820 That's something that we're super passionate about on Relatable.

00:03:12.560 We've partnered with lots of organizations to give away Bibles over the past few months.

00:03:16.760 I want you in the word of God and to know the truth that will truly set you free.

00:03:20.780 All right.

00:03:21.900 Let's talk about some not as hopeful news, but really, really important news because it

00:03:28.380 affects people.

00:03:29.200 It affects specifically our people.

00:03:31.580 It affects the church.

00:03:33.300 You probably saw what happened in Minnesota over the weekend.

00:03:36.560 You saw the agitator storming the church in Minnesota.

00:03:40.460 And I just want to start out by saying, if you are on the side of terrorizing churchgoers,

00:03:47.280 you're on the wrong side.

00:03:48.940 Here's that one.

00:03:49.560 The Lord is safe in your house.

00:03:51.640 The faith that you want to get your house in the morning.

00:03:53.340 That is correct.

00:03:54.040 Go about this today.

00:03:55.180 And get you to do it.

00:03:56.700 You don't get it.

00:03:57.340 You don't get it.

00:03:58.680 You don't get it.

00:03:59.180 You don't get it.

00:04:00.020 You don't get it.

00:04:00.680 You don't get it.

00:04:01.900 You don't get it.

00:04:03.580 Justice Lord.

00:04:04.900 Rene good.

00:04:06.780 Rene good.

00:04:08.700 Rene good.

00:04:09.540 Rene good.

00:04:12.320 Rene good.

00:04:14.160 Rene good.

00:04:15.280 Don't shoot.

00:04:16.860 Don't shoot.

00:04:18.520 Don't shoot.

00:04:20.200 Don't shoot.

00:04:22.000 This was at City's Church in St. Paul, Minnesota.

00:04:24.940 It is very close to the killing of Rene good and close to the epicenter of Somali fraud,

00:04:31.440 which we've talked about on the show.

00:04:32.820 And it's also a place with a long list of illegal aliens who have committed very heinous crimes

00:04:37.380 against women and children and other Americans whom ICE is trying to deport.

00:04:41.840 And we will highlight some of those people later.

00:04:44.380 A pastor in this church is reportedly employed by ICE on some level.

00:04:49.260 And people are having a debate, even on the right side or even in the Christian community,

00:04:56.420 about whether or not that is okay.

00:04:58.520 And I just want to say, as an aside, God bless that pastor.

00:05:02.020 I pray for him.

00:05:03.060 I pray for more pastors and more godly Christian men to serve their country in a way that protects

00:05:07.740 citizenship and borders, while also upholding the dignity of those individuals who shouldn't

00:05:12.460 be here, but are also made in God's image.

00:05:14.780 So good job to that pastor.

00:05:16.920 But of course, that makes him a target by these people.

00:05:19.000 Now, I want you to notice something, and I want this image to be steered in your mind.

00:05:23.760 You see a father there comforting his child, a boy probably, I don't know, six, maybe even

00:05:32.020 not.

00:05:32.200 It's hard to tell, but a young boy being comforted by his dad, shielded by him, kind of covering

00:05:38.380 his ears.

00:05:39.180 The boy is clearly crying, afraid that you've got a woman, maybe just a friend next to him,

00:05:44.760 comforting him with her hand on his back.

00:05:50.520 And then you can see elderly people, you see the young people, you see families trying to decide

00:05:58.520 between standing their ground, continuing to worship, or whether they should leave for their own safety.

00:06:07.720 And I just want you to remember this picture of these terrified individuals.

00:06:12.660 This is a picture of what happens when progressives have power.

00:06:18.300 If you remember that episode that we did on Mom Donnie's chilling heralding of the warmth of

00:06:26.260 collectivism, progressives always use empathetic, compassionate-sounding language to get empowered,

00:06:33.520 to consolidate their power, and then to use it against the people who oppose them.

00:06:38.060 They use compassion as a pretense for justifying your vote for them or your support of them

00:06:44.600 taking some office, and then they will weaponize that compassion against people.

00:06:49.920 And these people believe that they are protesting fascism.

00:06:54.460 But the reality is this is what tyranny largely looked like in the 20th century in all of those

00:07:00.180 countries that we talked about a couple weeks ago.

00:07:02.300 Public shaming, impeding worship, intimidating Christians and political opposition into falling

00:07:09.540 in line with the prevailing worldview.

00:07:11.780 And this is the prevailing worldview.

00:07:13.820 Progressivism is the prevailing worldview, especially here in the United States, even among

00:07:20.020 many people in power.

00:07:22.040 We have a Republican administration, but in Minnesota, these are progressive politicians, progressives

00:07:27.640 in power.

00:07:28.260 And this is what progressivism in power looks like.

00:07:31.320 And this is not just happening in Minnesota.

00:07:34.040 We have churchgoers in Washington, D.C. who have said that they have been hounded by another

00:07:39.540 guy for a week, SOT2.

00:07:42.100 F*** you, you f***ing traitor!

00:07:44.600 How dare you have a rainbow f***ing umbrella, you Nazi b***er!

00:07:48.680 How dare you try to steal that from our people!

00:07:51.660 F*** you, you Nazi traitor!

00:07:53.880 If you watch other parts of that video, he's going up into people's faces, he's saying all

00:08:02.160 kinds of vile things, saying that they're going to hell, saying that they're fake Christians

00:08:06.840 because this guy is clearly an authority on what it means to be a Christian.

00:08:12.680 But that's what you see from these guys a lot.

00:08:15.980 Very similar to the guy that you heard in the first clip that we played in Minnesota.

00:08:20.460 Minnesota, the guy is apparently in St. Paul, and his name is William Kelly, and he filmed

00:08:28.520 himself berating the members of the congregation, also calling them fake Christians, SOT3.

00:08:35.480 All these comfortable white people who are living lavish, comfortable lives while children

00:08:40.780 are dragged into concentration camps.

00:08:42.860 You're living real nice lives with your lattes, doing absolutely nothing for your Latino and

00:08:47.300 Somali brothers and sisters.

00:08:48.880 You come here to a man wearing a suit as a preacher?

00:08:51.860 Did Jesus wear a suit?

00:08:53.080 Did Jesus profit off the words?

00:08:54.860 No!

00:08:55.500 Jesus would die with interest.

00:08:57.020 You did not touch me.

00:08:58.000 Touch me again and see what happens.

00:08:59.560 Okay, I didn't know that pastors were supposed to look like they lived in the first century.

00:09:08.420 I wasn't aware of that.

00:09:09.540 I didn't know that was a standard.

00:09:10.840 But according to this guy, who, of course, is the gentle and quiet spirit that's required

00:09:15.500 of Christians, he's the authority on that.

00:09:18.720 According to Megan Basham at The Daily Wire, this guy, Kelly, is a professional agitator.

00:09:23.720 He has associations with Black Lives Matter and the Racial Justice Network.

00:09:29.080 She also writes that Kelly had previously disrupted the Washington, D.C. church that the Secretary

00:09:34.160 of War, Pete Hedgeseth, attends.

00:09:36.840 He had also been arrested in the past and, I guess, released.

00:09:42.740 He also posted, this is weird, on his Instagram account, DaWoke Farmer, going to a Somalian mosque

00:09:49.780 and saying, this is a great time!

00:09:52.380 Sop4.

00:09:52.760 So we've been invited to the local Somali mosque, and as you can see how beautiful it

00:09:57.360 is, this is where they do their prayer.

00:09:59.040 This is where normally 500 people will, you know, come and make prayer, but things are

00:10:04.200 quiet because the local community is scared to come out.

00:10:07.540 They're terrified.

00:10:08.840 And so that's who this guy is.

00:10:10.540 That's who a lot of these people are.

00:10:12.100 I mean, they think Islam is a religion of peace, and they support this religion that,

00:10:18.220 of course, is anti-homosexuality, anti-transgenderism, anti-woman, anti-actually the dignity of the

00:10:25.360 individual, not to mention anti-constitution and Western civilization.

00:10:29.960 They support that.

00:10:31.040 But then this peaceful church, who actually does a ton of good for the community, that's

00:10:35.780 the institution they want to terrorize.

00:10:37.420 It just shows you, when you have a depraved mind, you call evil good and good evil.

00:10:41.920 So that's what's going on there.

00:10:43.380 So let's go back to this congregation in just a second, but let me pause, tell you about

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00:11:53.700 According to Dustin Grage, he's a columnist for Town Hall, a member of the congregation

00:12:05.220 of Cities Church in St. Paul that was harassed released this statement.

00:12:11.320 They said,

00:12:11.600 The ICE protesters invaded my church this morning.

00:12:14.120 They stormed in right as the sermon started, surrounded the congregation, started shouting

00:12:17.900 obscenities and disgusting slogans.

00:12:20.940 Children started crying.

00:12:22.560 This seemed to enrage one man even more.

00:12:24.620 And he started screaming about how we are, quote, privileged pigs.

00:12:27.780 It's hard to know what to say or do in a situation like this.

00:12:30.680 But the congregation began to pray, read scripture and sing.

00:12:33.300 Eventually, we were told to move to another part of the church and the protesters were cleared

00:12:36.940 out.

00:12:37.540 I don't know what kind of person can do something this disordered and evil, but I keep thinking,

00:12:42.320 Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.

00:12:45.400 Pray for Minnesota.

00:12:47.700 And so these people were rightfully terrified.

00:12:51.080 They were scared.

00:12:51.740 Can you imagine having your child in there who thinks that they are going to worship with

00:12:56.840 their family?

00:12:57.460 And then they are harassed.

00:13:00.060 They are screamed at by these strangers.

00:13:01.560 They have no sense of what's going on.

00:13:04.760 It's completely justified for these people in this congregation to be terrified.

00:13:09.540 I mean, we know from watching Charlie Kirk get murdered, President Trump almost get assassinated,

00:13:15.860 pregnancy centers firebombed after Roe was overturned, an elderly pro-life canvasser shot in the

00:13:21.700 back by an angry pro-choicer in Michigan in 2022, a teenager named Kaler Ellingston get

00:13:28.180 run over in North Dakota by a man angered that the kid was a Republican, that you can't trust

00:13:34.360 progressives not to murder you in cold blood.

00:13:36.980 Now, of course, not all progressives are violent.

00:13:39.260 Your Democrat aunt or the liberal moms on your friend group or that woke but lovable professor

00:13:45.140 from college might not ever reach that level.

00:13:47.720 But we have all seen enough at this point to be justifiably afraid when a left-wing mob

00:13:54.000 enters a room.

00:13:55.380 None of us should be surprised at their agitation and their desire for violence that they justify

00:14:02.900 with saying that they're opposing oppression.

00:14:05.700 But when you consider that these are the very same people who will fight tooth and nail for

00:14:10.600 the right to violently kill babies inside the womb, like we shouldn't expect these activists

00:14:15.920 to be peaceful or to know what goodness versus evil is.

00:14:20.260 They've shown us over and over again that they don't know, that they're on the wrong side.

00:14:25.560 I mean, we watched in 2020 as these left-wing agitators burn Minneapolis and LA and Portland

00:14:32.300 and Atlanta, so many other once great American cities murdering innocent people like eight-year-old

00:14:39.080 Sequoia Turner, 16-year-old Antonio Mays, David Dorn, former police chief from St. Louis, all

00:14:46.720 Black Americans, by the way, who were never mourned by Black Lives Matter, the last person

00:14:52.360 shot by a police officer.

00:14:54.160 A lot of you know this because you've been listening to my show, but many of you don't.

00:14:59.560 Do you know the last person shot by a police officer, local PD in Minneapolis?

00:15:03.980 A white woman named Justine Damon just a few years ago, I believe it was 2017.

00:15:10.080 You probably only know her name if you have been listening to my show for the past five

00:15:14.580 years.

00:15:14.920 I'm sure other conservative commentators have told you about her.

00:15:18.800 She called the police one night after hearing a noise in her alley.

00:15:21.700 She thought someone was being assaulted.

00:15:23.760 The police showed up after getting her 911 call and she walked outside in her pajamas just

00:15:29.880 to talk to them and inexplicably, a Somalian cop who was sitting in the front seat of the

00:15:35.860 cop car reached over his partner who was in the driver's seat and shot her through the

00:15:40.840 window in her chest, killed her.

00:15:44.000 And this Somalian American cop was sentenced to only 12 years in prison and then he was released

00:15:50.740 early.

00:15:51.360 Now tell me if their races were reversed, what would have happened to Minneapolis that night?

00:15:57.200 You would probably know her name and you would know the name of the cop and he probably would

00:16:04.980 have gotten in prison for a lot longer.

00:16:07.620 I mean, if you think about someone like Derek Chauvin, how long did he get sentenced for?

00:16:11.360 I think it was 25 years plus.

00:16:13.880 And that was much less clear the contribution that he had to George Floyd's death, considering

00:16:18.940 that George Floyd was also filled with fatal amounts, lethal amounts of fentanyl and different

00:16:24.620 camera angles actually showed that Derek Chauvin was on his back, not his neck.

00:16:28.540 That was a lot less clear.

00:16:29.560 Derek Chauvin got 25 years plus.

00:16:32.760 This Somalian cop shot her point blank, killed her, got 12 years and then was released early.

00:16:39.740 No riots for Justine, no protests, no say her name over Justine.

00:16:45.340 Because for these people, for Black Lives Matter, for these left-wing agitators, it's never about

00:16:50.160 the victims.

00:16:50.740 It's not really about violence or injustice.

00:16:53.960 It's about the system.

00:16:55.940 It's about the belief that these activists have that America and its institutions are oppressive

00:17:02.840 and unjust and anyone who upholds these institutions, like the church, especially the Protestant church

00:17:08.520 in America, who is still overwhelmingly conservative, is seen as an enemy.

00:17:13.160 This demonstration in City's Church was not about Renee Goode or even the Somalians or even

00:17:18.200 any of the illegal aliens there.

00:17:20.300 These were just the exposing of the Somalian fraud, the killing of Renee Goode.

00:17:25.520 They were the trigger incidents used by these activists to justify terrorizing Christians

00:17:30.960 and conservatives and anyone who stands in their way.

00:17:34.300 2020 wasn't about George Floyd.

00:17:36.340 2026 is not about Renee Goode.

00:17:39.000 Understand this.

00:17:40.040 It is about intentionally sowing chaos to ultimately weaken America and Western civilization.

00:17:45.200 That is what George Soros and all of his funded initiatives and groups want to do because

00:17:50.420 America still stands in the way of the ultimate oligarchy that George Soros and his ilk are

00:17:57.580 trying to accomplish throughout the world.

00:18:00.100 And I wish that was some just grandiose theory that I had, but it's not.

00:18:07.140 We've talked to too many people.

00:18:08.580 We've done too much research on the show.

00:18:10.380 We've talked about these subjects too much to continue to be naive.

00:18:13.520 And if you're confused about any of the assertions I just made, you should go back and listen

00:18:18.000 to the episodes that we did in 2020 and 2021 about what's really going on, who is funding

00:18:24.160 these protest groups and the ideology that drives it.

00:18:27.540 It's not about violence.

00:18:29.020 It's not about oppression.

00:18:30.300 It is about Western civilization and the belief that America does not have a right to sovereignty

00:18:35.160 or borders or deportations.

00:18:36.700 That is why only certain deaths by certain kinds of people work as triggers for these

00:18:43.840 activist groups.

00:18:45.080 Now, I'm not saying that all of this that I just said is what your neighbor with a rainbow

00:18:49.480 flag in his yard is thinking or your liberal friend is actively thinking about these things.

00:18:54.980 I don't think they know that they are foot soldiers of an evil movement.

00:18:58.260 I believe that they really feel compassion over the stories that they are reading about.

00:19:04.700 But just know that inherently that is what progressive ideology is about.

00:19:09.140 That's what its most adamant adherents are about.

00:19:12.940 Like the reason that you see so many similarities between now and 2020 is because the same giant

00:19:20.300 scam is behind it.

00:19:21.620 The same giant scam that is BLM is behind this madness.

00:19:26.740 And we'll dig into that in just a second.

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00:20:57.820 The protest was organized by Black Lives Matter Minnesota, Black Lives Matter Twin Cities,

00:21:03.440 and a racial justice network activist.

00:21:06.520 Here's a tip.

00:21:07.080 If you have to put an adjective before justice, you're not really talking about justice.

00:21:12.020 Social justice, environmental justice, reproductive justice, none of these things actually mean

00:21:16.620 impartial direct justice.

00:21:18.000 It means punishing the side that's viewed as the oppressor to the benefit of the side

00:21:22.960 that's seen as the oppressed.

00:21:24.820 It is present discrimination to try to make up for past discrimination.

00:21:29.620 That's Ibram X.

00:21:30.440 Kendi's entire thesis in his book, How to Be an Anti-Racist.

00:21:34.660 And to just cleanse your mind of those stupid, stupid notions, you need a cleanser.

00:21:39.920 You need a mind cleanser of Thomas Sowell.

00:21:42.020 And you need to read Quest for Cosmic Justice, and you need to read Discrimination and Disparities.

00:21:47.380 Again, gosh, I feel deja vu here.

00:21:49.180 I feel like I am back in 2020 where I was recommending those books constantly, but I'm seeing all of

00:21:54.400 this stuff on Instagram, and I'm like, oh my gosh, so many people did not learn.

00:21:59.300 Like, you did not learn that all of this, almost all of this is manufactured to make you hate Donald

00:22:05.460 Trump and never vote Republican again.

00:22:07.300 Like, I know that seems superficial, and you're thinking, oh, this is so much bigger than politics.

00:22:11.840 It's bigger than politics for us as Christians.

00:22:14.020 It goes deeper than that because we see the cosmic powers of darkness and the spiritual warfare

00:22:18.200 that we read about in Ephesians 6.

00:22:20.580 But it's about politics.

00:22:23.400 It's about making sure that people who love America and believe in sovereignty and believe

00:22:27.600 in borders and believe in citizenship and believe in Western civilization never get power again.

00:22:32.500 And if they can trigger your empathy and trigger your anger to make sure that you always vote

00:22:37.020 Democrat, then they will stop at nothing.

00:22:39.540 No lie, no misrepresentation is ever too much or too deceitful for those in the media and these

00:22:45.220 activist groups who truly do want to topple what they see as the evil regime of Trump and

00:22:50.700 America.

00:22:51.440 OK, that's just the case.

00:22:53.840 Here's one of the organizers of the protest on Facebook.

00:22:57.680 This is someone that Don Lemon talked about, and we will talk about Don Lemon very soon.

00:23:02.800 Nakima Levi-Levy, who knows, Armstrong.

00:23:07.140 Friends, here's a clip of our demonstration.

00:23:09.200 She's proud.

00:23:09.860 She's like a proud mom.

00:23:11.840 She's terrorizing these kids, and she's so happy about it.

00:23:15.400 She says, this morning at Cities Church in St. Paul, David Easterwood is a pastor at this

00:23:19.940 church, the acting field director for the ICE office in St. Paul.

00:23:22.860 Well, it's time for judgment to begin, and it will begin in the house of God.

00:23:29.220 OK, like I could just, I could spend hours breaking this down for you and showing you

00:23:35.060 the implications of this and the theological underpinnings of this, that progressivism is

00:23:40.900 a false form and a perverted form of Christianity.

00:23:46.100 Like every single aspect of Christianity, from creation to salvation to the end times to judgment

00:23:57.960 to sin to justice, all of these are used within progressivism, but with completely different

00:24:04.440 definitions.

00:24:06.020 Progressivists believe, and if you read any primary source on critical race theory, which

00:24:11.000 you should, I have, like you can see the similarities here, is that these people believe that they

00:24:18.840 are advancing a particular kingdom that will result in perfect equality and justice and freedom

00:24:28.940 from oppression.

00:24:30.340 And they will carry that out through a form of justice that manifests itself in disruption

00:24:38.020 and agitation and agitation and making people uncomfortable and basically intimidating people

00:24:43.700 out of having conservative or pro-America political positions.

00:24:47.800 And they do this in the name of trying to care for the least of these.

00:24:52.080 That's what's going on.

00:24:52.920 That's how they find their fulfillment.

00:24:54.640 This is how they think they are saved.

00:24:56.600 This is how they think that they are bringing about some kind of utopia.

00:25:01.560 They politicize all forms of the spiritual realities of Christianity.

00:25:07.260 If you read James Cone, who is the author of Black Liberation Theology, you will also see

00:25:14.420 this same narrative taking place.

00:25:17.500 Now, I do just want to point something out here.

00:25:19.860 Just the use of propaganda is so strong, and it is meant to paralyze your critical thinking

00:25:26.900 skills, so you will just imbibe something emotionally and repeat it.

00:25:31.920 Did you hear the demonstrators saying, in the very first clip that we played at the top,

00:25:36.440 hands up, don't shoot, hands up, don't shoot, that shows that this whole thing really is

00:25:41.040 just a giant propagandistic grift?

00:25:43.880 Because this goes all the way back, if you remember, to Michael Brown, who was shot by

00:25:47.620 a police officer in 2014.

00:25:49.300 There was this myth that formed by BLM at the time that Brown had said to the officer

00:25:54.020 before he was shot, hands up, don't shoot.

00:25:57.000 But there's actually no evidence that that happened.

00:26:00.220 Even The Washington Post admitted that there's no evidence.

00:26:02.940 The Obama DOJ admitted that there was no evidence, that that was just a myth, a propaganda

00:26:08.840 tool that had formed that didn't actually have any grounding in reality.

00:26:14.260 The truth is, he was in a fight with a police officer, and it's very sad that he died.

00:26:18.000 But again, this was used as a pretense to justify violence, and to change policy, and to take

00:26:24.120 power, and to collectively punish conservatives, Christians, white people.

00:26:29.740 That's what's going on here.

00:26:31.300 That's still what's going on here.

00:26:33.120 So this particular demonstration, riot, agitation, whatever you want to call it at City's Church,

00:26:39.180 was live-streamed by Black Lives Matter in Minnesota.

00:26:41.920 It was obviously not spontaneous.

00:26:43.840 30 to 40 individuals stored into the church at approximately 1040 local time.

00:26:49.720 You'll remember that Black Lives Matter, the national organization, not necessarily this

00:26:55.100 one chapter, although we just don't know, but the national organization got $90 million

00:27:00.380 from the Soros-backed Tides Foundation a few years ago.

00:27:05.400 And remember, we found out that we don't know where most of that money went.

00:27:08.700 It probably went to enrich the leaders.

00:27:11.540 And remember the leaders, gosh, I'm like remembering all of this lore and this history that we dug

00:27:16.420 into five years ago.

00:27:17.960 They admitted to being trained Marxists.

00:27:20.300 Now, remember, Marxism is responsible for the deaths of like 100 million people in the

00:27:24.240 20th century, as we learned a couple weeks ago, when they were big backers of Maduro.

00:27:28.500 Remember our boy Maduro, who is now in custody because he is part of a drug trafficking scheme,

00:27:35.000 not to mention he is an awful dictator who has employed Marxism to starve the people of Venezuela

00:27:42.440 after Chavez did the same.

00:27:45.260 OK, so that's who Black Lives Matter is.

00:27:46.840 That's what George Soros wants to support.

00:27:49.100 According to the New York Post, Invisible Twin Cities, which received $7.8 million from George

00:27:54.700 Soros Open Society Foundations between 2018 and 2023, is allegedly one of the radical leftist

00:27:59.820 groups funding the anti-ice protests in Minneapolis.

00:28:03.860 George Soros, none of it, they're not good people.

00:28:06.840 So you have to think, why would they fund anti-ice protests?

00:28:11.400 It's because they hate America.

00:28:12.880 America stands in the way of what they want to do.

00:28:14.640 The Racial Justice Network lists no major donors and emphasizes grassroots.

00:28:18.420 However, transparency is incredibly minimal.

00:28:21.060 We don't really know who funds them.

00:28:22.480 The Council on American Islamic Relations, CARE, also appears to be involved in this, of course,

00:28:28.500 because they're enjoying the grift.

00:28:30.900 They're enjoying the grift of these Somalian Muslims being able to steal from the taxpayer

00:28:35.000 and enrich themselves by using fake daycares.

00:28:38.940 Jelani Hussain, the executive director of the Minnesota chapter of CARE, has rallied against

00:28:43.360 ICE in protests.

00:28:45.160 The day before the church protest, Hussain gave an announcement to Muslims from the CARE

00:28:49.440 Minnesota accounts about the protests, obviously very supportive.

00:28:54.620 Now, we also know that this was a live-streamed event by Black Lives Matter that tells us that

00:28:59.780 this was pre-planned.

00:29:01.320 It was not spontaneous.

00:29:03.360 There were journalists there.

00:29:04.700 There were journalists who were invited.

00:29:07.040 Don Lemon was invited.

00:29:09.240 Now, he says that he didn't know about it, but then he said he did know about it.

00:29:12.520 So we'll get into Don Lemon making everything worse, as he usually does in just a second.

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00:30:38.700 Okay, if you're just listening to this, let me tell you what you are about to be listening

00:30:47.040 to.

00:30:47.320 If you're watching, you'll be able to see.

00:30:48.860 So the first part of this video is Don Lemon after the protest saying, I didn't know anything

00:30:54.060 about it.

00:30:54.700 What?

00:30:55.120 And then the second one is Don Lemon before the protest talking to his camera outside saying,

00:31:01.500 oh yeah, I was invited and we're about to go in.

00:31:04.540 Here's top five.

00:31:05.180 I had no affiliation to that organization.

00:31:07.840 I didn't even know they were going to this church until we followed them there.

00:31:11.000 We were there chronicling protests.

00:31:13.200 So they're getting the operation together.

00:31:16.160 Again, this is an operation that is a secret that they invited folks out.

00:31:22.300 I can't tell you what is going to happen, but you're going to watch it live unfold here

00:31:26.140 on the Don Lemon show.

00:31:27.100 Okay, so that is former CNN anchor Don Lemon.

00:31:30.960 He was covering the anti-ice protests in the area for his YouTube channel.

00:31:35.180 He was informed ahead of the protests according to the Minnesota Star Tribune.

00:31:40.100 He live streamed the event, walking inside with the protesters.

00:31:44.300 And he interviews the head pastor.

00:31:47.640 And he says, oh, this is all about the, this is the First Amendment.

00:31:52.220 This is definitely what the founders wanted.

00:31:54.400 Sot7.

00:31:55.540 I mean, this is unacceptable.

00:31:57.200 It's shameful.

00:31:58.240 It's shameful to interrupt a public gathering of Christians in worship.

00:32:04.480 But there were folks who will say.

00:32:07.140 I have to take care of my flock.

00:32:08.980 Listen, we live in a, there's a constitution in the First Amendment to freedom of speech

00:32:12.840 and freedom to assemble and protest.

00:32:15.000 We're here to worship.

00:32:16.280 We're here to worship Jesus because that's the hope of these cities.

00:32:19.320 That's the hope of the world is Jesus Christ.

00:32:22.120 Now, a couple of things I just want to say.

00:32:24.000 Can I say a superficial thing first?

00:32:26.040 That sounded like a Southern accent to me.

00:32:28.060 I know a Southern accent when I hear it.

00:32:29.760 And that did not sound like a sweet Minnesota accent that I've heard so many times from my Minnesota

00:32:34.720 followers.

00:32:35.240 So I'm so curious about this very brave pastor and his background.

00:32:38.820 I actually, I haven't looked into that yet, but he did such a good job of handling

00:32:42.680 that situation very calmly, taking care of his flock.

00:32:46.640 And Don Lemon, as a journalist, should know that the First Amendment does not protect any

00:32:51.200 and all speech everywhere you want to give it.

00:32:54.040 It doesn't.

00:32:54.580 There are many time and place in context considerations when it comes to the First Amendment and interrupting

00:33:01.500 and disrupting and impeding the worship in any house of worship does not fall under

00:33:07.160 First Amendment freedoms.

00:33:08.760 We'll get to more of that in a second.

00:33:10.080 He was also very dismissive of the tactics used by the protesters.

00:33:14.980 In fact, he said protests should be traumatic to these children and grandmothers just trying

00:33:19.760 to sing worship songs.

00:33:21.100 Sade.

00:33:21.740 Oh, it's this guy here.

00:33:22.800 Look, he's hugging his kid.

00:33:25.560 And, you know, I imagine it's uncomfortable and traumatic for the people here.

00:33:30.840 But again, careful, it's very slippery right here.

00:33:32.620 And it's uncomfortable and traumatic for the people here.

00:33:35.180 But that's what really careful, please.

00:33:37.400 Really slippery.

00:33:38.520 Not kidding.

00:33:40.640 That's what protesting is about.

00:33:44.020 Protesting is about traumatizing children.

00:33:46.600 Did you know that?

00:33:47.840 That's what Don Lemon thinks.

00:33:49.800 And he's not kidding, by the way.

00:33:51.240 It's very slippery right there.

00:33:53.040 He also berated church attendees for opposing the protest.

00:33:56.560 He says the church is everybody's house.

00:33:59.860 Okay.

00:34:00.580 Sat 9.

00:34:01.580 I think it's good to speak up.

00:34:03.040 I think it's good to protest.

00:34:04.640 But I think it's better to do it in a peaceful way.

00:34:06.780 I don't think the answer is going into God's church.

00:34:09.240 You don't think this is peaceful?

00:34:11.640 Well, it's trespassing.

00:34:12.360 Nobody fighting.

00:34:13.320 It's trespassing.

00:34:14.820 How would you feel if I went into your house and I started yelling?

00:34:18.580 It depends on what I did, but not in my house.

00:34:21.040 That's a whole different thing.

00:34:21.920 I think these people would go inside of anybody's house.

00:34:24.560 This is the house of God.

00:34:26.340 Which makes it everybody's house.

00:34:29.840 No, it doesn't.

00:34:31.900 No, it doesn't.

00:34:33.180 And you know what?

00:34:34.000 That guy, he didn't.

00:34:35.040 That was good.

00:34:35.980 That guy said, this is trespassing.

00:34:37.400 How would you like it if I went into your house?

00:34:39.440 And Don Lemon didn't know what to say.

00:34:41.680 He didn't know what to say.

00:34:43.200 He doesn't know.

00:34:43.780 Don Lemon, this is an invitation for you to come on my show.

00:34:46.580 And if you want to yell at me for things I've done,

00:34:48.920 I give you permission to do that.

00:34:50.700 But I will say that, you know, I am allowing you to exercise that First Amendment right

00:34:56.760 to yell at me about the things that you've done or that you think that I've done wrong.

00:35:02.340 But I get to ask you whatever I want to.

00:35:05.060 Okay?

00:35:05.560 So you better come prepared.

00:35:08.700 That is, he is such a ridiculous person.

00:35:11.320 Do you think that he would walk into a mosque and be doing this?

00:35:15.200 Just wondering.

00:35:16.680 Do you think he would have talked to a mom like that?

00:35:19.780 Like, oh, well, this is just, this is the First Amendment.

00:35:22.380 This is the Constitution, buddy.

00:35:26.300 Doubtful.

00:35:27.240 Something makes me doubt about that.

00:35:29.140 He also said in another clip, well, I'm a Christian.

00:35:35.380 Okay.

00:35:36.740 Okay.

00:35:37.740 We'll take your word for it.

00:35:40.220 He also is defending, so this is a different time,

00:35:44.540 just to give you, just to give you a sense of like what his moral compass is.

00:35:50.820 There was this story a few years ago in Chicago.

00:35:54.080 It's very sad.

00:35:54.640 I remember when this happened.

00:35:55.620 This is 2017.

00:35:57.080 And I'm going to tell the races of these people because it's relevant as we're talking about

00:36:00.500 all of this and who gets the outrage and who doesn't.

00:36:03.020 There were these four black teenagers who kidnapped and tortured a special needs teen.

00:36:08.920 He had severe autism.

00:36:10.560 If I remember correctly, he was nonverbal, very helpless.

00:36:13.740 And they decided that they were going to bind him hand and foot.

00:36:17.640 And they tightly wound his head in his mouth with duct tape.

00:36:23.240 They tortured him for hours and hours.

00:36:26.540 And they filmed it, posted it.

00:36:29.200 They never claimed to be smart.

00:36:30.980 And it was this horrible thing.

00:36:32.800 They got arrested.

00:36:33.500 And a lot of people talked about it because, of course, this person, this young man being

00:36:38.260 white, he didn't get any protests.

00:36:39.740 He didn't get any outrage.

00:36:40.920 And here's Don Lemon on CNN covering this story, saying, I don't think this is evil.

00:36:45.500 This is just kids being kids.

00:36:47.140 Saten.

00:36:47.800 That's what this is.

00:36:48.720 It's evil.

00:36:49.220 It's brutality.

00:36:50.180 It's man's inhumanity to man.

00:36:52.300 And I don't think it's evil.

00:36:54.560 I don't think it's evil.

00:36:56.080 I think these are young people.

00:36:57.120 And I think they have bad home training.

00:36:59.700 Young people with bad home training.

00:37:03.100 OK.

00:37:03.640 I don't even know why, as a journalist, you would decide to interject and correct something

00:37:08.580 like that.

00:37:09.120 But yeah, I think torturing people is evil.

00:37:12.000 It's not really that complicated.

00:37:13.640 So I'm just not interested in what Don Lemon thinks about morality, what he thinks about

00:37:17.480 the Constitution, what he thinks about Christianity, what he thinks about theology.

00:37:21.660 I'm not interested in it because he has no authority.

00:37:25.100 He has not shown in his own life, in his own professional work, to be a man of integrity,

00:37:29.860 a man of high intellect.

00:37:31.740 And so I'm not really sure why anyone would take this seriously.

00:37:35.780 I think the pastor and the congregants actually handled him very well.

00:37:38.380 Now, people like this, who are a lot of pomp and circumstance, who believe big things

00:37:44.260 about themselves, once you can kind of pop that balloon with just a few pointed, interesting,

00:37:51.320 difficult questions, they just deflate very, very quickly.

00:37:56.440 And so shame on Don Lemon for being a part of this at all.

00:37:59.820 Assistant Attorney General Harmeet Dillon, we just had her on the show on Friday.

00:38:03.100 Go listen to her, watch that episode if you haven't already, announced an investigation

00:38:07.020 into church occupation that afternoon on Acts, also talked about Don Lemon and whether or not

00:38:15.820 he might be prosecuted.

00:38:18.620 But first, talks about these disruptors.

00:38:22.460 She mentioned the possibility of using the FACE Act, as she talked to us about, to prosecute

00:38:27.600 these people for desecrating a house of worship and interfering with Christian worshipers.

00:38:34.000 She talked to Benny Johnson on his show.

00:38:36.480 People are asking, why haven't there been any arrests?

00:38:38.860 And she's trying to explain, well, this is how it works on 11.

00:38:41.960 We will pursue charges in this case.

00:38:45.060 I see various crimes that have occurred.

00:38:47.880 Exactly what they are, I'm not going to flag, but the FACE Act has been mentioned as one of

00:38:52.100 the predicates there.

00:38:54.520 Okay.

00:38:55.060 And then people are saying, you need to lock up Don Lemon.

00:38:59.120 And she did call him out.

00:39:02.840 She is disagreeing with this take that this is a First Amendment right.

00:39:06.780 She said on Acts, a house of worship is not a public forum for your protest.

00:39:09.700 It is a space protected from exactly such acts by federal, criminal, and civil laws.

00:39:14.540 Nor does the First Amendment protect your pseudo-journalism of disrupting a prayer service.

00:39:19.100 You are on notice.

00:39:22.760 And so people are talking about whether or not he could be charged using the Ku Klux Klan Act,

00:39:27.740 because she's talking about basically these Dixiecrats were trying to impede the worship

00:39:32.140 of Black Americans back in the day.

00:39:34.760 But that Klan Act has been used to prosecute people who are trying to impede worship of all

00:39:40.880 kinds.

00:39:42.040 Now, yes, it is ironic that a Black man could be charged with something like that,

00:39:47.020 but that is not the fault of the government.

00:39:49.700 That is the fault of Don Lemon.

00:39:50.920 And maybe if he had some humility, he could take a second and think, wow, how did I get

00:39:55.980 here?

00:39:56.240 Like, is this where I wanted to be 10 years ago when I was on CNN and I thought about

00:40:00.720 my future and I thought about what success and fulfillment would look like, like harassing

00:40:04.860 Christian worshipers in a church in Minnesota and trying to justify it using stupid constitutional

00:40:10.760 arguments?

00:40:11.340 Like, is that who Don Lemon wants to be?

00:40:13.140 And I guess the answer is a resounding yes.

00:40:16.860 Also, this is Don Lemon, a picture of Don Lemon giving a kiss to the organizer that we

00:40:25.120 talked about earlier, the BLM organizer who is kind of leading the charge, Chuck Ross,

00:40:30.320 DC on access.

00:40:31.300 This is Don Lemon giving the organizer of the event a kiss on the cheek before interviewing

00:40:34.480 her.

00:40:34.840 He was totally in on it.

00:40:36.580 He intentionally made sure not to disclose any details of the operation so people wouldn't

00:40:40.520 get tipped off.

00:40:41.320 Now, that is that person's perspective on here.

00:40:44.760 But it is obvious from this picture.

00:40:46.940 Like, I don't I don't think he just got too close interviewing her.

00:40:50.020 Like, I'm pretty sure he was giving her a kiss.

00:40:52.460 They were friendly.

00:40:53.240 They clearly knew each other before he's supportive of this.

00:40:56.560 And you know what?

00:40:57.260 If you're a commentator or if you're just like, you know what?

00:40:59.580 I'm going to be a left wing YouTuber.

00:41:01.440 Be a left wing YouTuber.

00:41:03.020 OK, like that's OK.

00:41:05.900 That's OK.

00:41:06.700 If that's what you can do, that's OK.

00:41:09.380 But don't pretend to be an objective journalist and then kiss a person who is on one side of

00:41:14.800 the story.

00:41:15.540 Like, you should just be real about that and just say, you know what?

00:41:18.560 I'm I'm Don Lemon.

00:41:19.960 I'm a left wing influencer.

00:41:21.860 Like, I'm a cool kid, just like all of you.

00:41:24.820 That's fine, Don Lemon.

00:41:26.460 But don't pretend to be a journalist anymore.

00:41:28.480 It's OK.

00:41:29.560 Caroline Leavitt, the press secretary, said President Trump will not tolerate the intimidation

00:41:33.680 and harassment of Christians in their sacred places of worship.

00:41:36.200 The Department of Justice has launched a full investigation into the despicable incident

00:41:39.920 that took place earlier today at a church in Minnesota.

00:41:44.340 Now, I just want to before we give a little time to the next subject that I wanted to go

00:41:49.240 over quickly, and this has taken me longer than I realized, I do just want to point out

00:41:53.540 less quickly the illegal aliens that these agitators are defending.

00:41:58.000 Again, not about Renee Good, not about the Somalians.

00:42:01.220 They are trying to impede ICE from doing their job.

00:42:03.680 These are some of the people, according to journalists, that according to the DHS, that

00:42:08.940 they are trying to that ICE is trying to detain and deport.

00:42:14.840 I read I read several of these almost every week.

00:42:19.380 This is one person in Minneapolis.

00:42:21.140 Kinzau fan, a criminal legal alien from Burma, convicted of vehicle theft, obstructing police

00:42:25.860 possession of burglary tools.

00:42:27.160 He was also arrested for drug possession and driving under the influence.

00:42:31.320 Juan Gonzalez Escamilla.

00:42:33.680 I removed from the U.S. 13 times, convicted of two counts of driving under the influence

00:42:37.500 of liquor, obstructing police, fraud and impersonating.

00:42:40.940 Juan Pablo Torres Keme, a criminal legal alien from Ecuador, convicted of drug trafficking.

00:42:47.120 Ying Li, a woman, a criminal alien convicted of prostitution.

00:42:52.320 And then you have Fidili Abu Abukhari Mishiri, a criminal illegal alien from Tanzania convicted

00:43:01.000 of larceny.

00:43:02.460 OK, like I would say these are actually the last serious crimes that I've seen some of

00:43:07.460 these illegal aliens convicted of that ICE is trying to remove a lot of sex predators,

00:43:12.780 a lot of child rapists, a lot of people convicted of murder and murder and manslaughter.

00:43:23.380 This is an ICE officer talking to a protester who is trying to stop ICE from arresting this

00:43:31.000 particular individual.

00:43:31.960 And here's what he has to say.

00:43:32.880 We're here to arrest a child sex offender.

00:43:39.900 And you guys are out here honking.

00:43:42.440 Oh, no, we're pressing.

00:43:45.340 That vehicle right there is honking and impeding our investigations while we're trying to arrest

00:43:50.480 a child sex offender.

00:43:52.500 That's who you guys are protecting.

00:43:56.000 Insane.

00:43:56.560 But you keep hearing from people, well, it's not just those criminals.

00:44:01.220 It's not just those criminals.

00:44:02.780 They're the, you know, they're citizens.

00:44:05.560 They're innocent people who are being detained just because of the color of their skin.

00:44:09.980 And one example of that is this man.

00:44:11.980 Maybe you've seen this picture going around.

00:44:13.500 I saw it on Instagram.

00:44:14.680 No context, just a video.

00:44:16.060 I saw it on X.

00:44:17.140 People saying this man is a citizen.

00:44:19.000 He's being dragged out into the freezing cold in just his underwear by ICE just because

00:44:24.340 of his name or the color of his skin.

00:44:27.880 According to the Associated Press, Chong Li Scott Thao was sleeping when the ICE agents

00:44:31.440 came to his door.

00:44:32.520 His daughter woke him up from a nap to tell him that they were there.

00:44:35.320 He told her not to open it.

00:44:36.680 The agents forced their way in.

00:44:38.280 Thao apparently asked his daughter-in-law to get his identification, but the ICE agents

00:44:41.460 didn't want to see it, he said.

00:44:43.480 They let him out in handcuffs, wearing sandals, underwear, and a blanket to the car, drove him

00:44:47.860 to the middle of nowhere, photographed him, and brought him back home.

00:44:50.400 That is according to the Associated Press.

00:44:52.540 Don't know what their source is.

00:44:53.840 Don't know if that's just the man telling the story, but there's always another side

00:44:57.600 of the story.

00:44:58.400 There's always more context.

00:45:00.100 And this is full screen 14.

00:45:02.400 This is the Tricia McLaughlin, who works in the DHS, said yesterday in St. Paul, she's

00:45:08.500 talking about this story.

00:45:10.140 ICE conducted a targeted operation of two convicted sex offenders.

00:45:13.360 One of the criminal targets had convictions for sex with a minor and sexual assault.

00:45:16.540 The other target had convictions for sexual assault with penetration in the first degree,

00:45:20.660 domestic violence, violating a protective order.

00:45:22.920 Both also have convictions for failure to register as sex offenders.

00:45:25.920 They have final orders of removal from an immigration judge.

00:45:29.040 But this particular guy was a U.S. citizen, but he lives with those two convicted sex offenders

00:45:33.900 at the site of the operation.

00:45:35.420 This particular individual, according to Tricia McLaughlin, refused to give his identification.

00:45:40.940 He also matched the description of the targets.

00:45:44.220 And as with any law enforcement agency, it is standard protocol to hold all individuals

00:45:48.200 in a house of an operation for safety of the public in law enforcement.

00:45:51.920 But or both of those sexual predators, they were not home then.

00:45:56.540 They remain at large in St. Paul and they are trying to find them.

00:46:01.060 And so this guy is back home.

00:46:04.060 He was returned, but he was convicted or he was he was living with two convicted sex offenders

00:46:09.320 who were also illegal aliens.

00:46:10.700 And so he did get caught up in this.

00:46:12.880 And I just want you to ask yourself, like, don't you think this ever happened under Biden

00:46:17.040 and Obama?

00:46:18.400 Like, don't you think ICE was conducting operations and detaining and deporting people in all different

00:46:23.140 kinds of ways under their tenure?

00:46:25.200 Because they were Obama was nicknamed by the left deporter in chief.

00:46:29.140 He was deporting a lot of people.

00:46:31.100 Are you telling me he did it only in the like kindest and most respectful and compassionate

00:46:34.860 ways that Obama was going personally to them and saying, hey, like, if you don't mind, if

00:46:40.140 it's not an inconvenient time for you, like, would you would you put down the meth pipe and

00:46:45.960 like come back with me to Guatemala?

00:46:48.140 I promise you that's not what was happening.

00:46:50.780 Law enforcement was still detaining people.

00:46:52.920 They were still going in all of these areas.

00:46:54.920 They were still circling around schools and houses of worship and going into people's

00:46:59.080 homes and waking people up when they were sleeping, getting them, taking them out, doing what

00:47:04.060 they had to do as law enforcement officers.

00:47:06.060 And you should just ask yourself whether or not you agree with that.

00:47:09.400 Why you didn't hear about it then?

00:47:12.000 Why didn't you hear about those news stories?

00:47:13.920 Why didn't you see these images?

00:47:15.220 Why didn't you see the protests when Obama and Biden were in charge?

00:47:20.040 It's not because things were happening differently.

00:47:22.120 It's just because this is about Trump.

00:47:26.440 It's about Trump.

00:47:28.260 This is about hating Republicans.

00:47:30.560 And so just think about that manufactured outrage.

00:47:34.380 And here are just some facts for you.

00:47:36.020 During the Obama era, according to the ACLU and the NIJC, about 56 deaths of immigrants in

00:47:41.360 ICE custody were reported.

00:47:43.400 Do you know any of those people?

00:47:45.320 Have you heard of their names?

00:47:46.880 Was there outrage?

00:47:47.960 Were there riots?

00:47:49.100 Remember, the Obama administration built the cages that the kids in cages were in, that

00:47:55.560 people were very outraged about when Trump was president the first time.

00:47:58.560 Under the Biden administration, around 25 deaths were reported.

00:48:03.180 Did you hear about that?

00:48:05.400 Again, was anyone rioting?

00:48:08.020 So here's what I want to leave you with on this segment.

00:48:10.920 Here's what I want you to ask, whether I am saying something or you are seeing a post,

00:48:16.880 especially when it comes to posts that are against ICE and immigration enforcement right

00:48:22.540 now.

00:48:22.780 But really, you can apply these questions to anyone.

00:48:26.620 Number one, you should ask, how do I know this is true?

00:48:29.920 This video picture statement that you're seeing, how do I know these details?

00:48:33.440 The date, time, location, citizenship status, context given is accurate.

00:48:37.740 Number two, what sources are cited here?

00:48:39.740 Number three, could there be an alternative explanation?

00:48:43.680 Number five, or number four, could there be more to the story?

00:48:47.960 And then number five, what facts seem to be left out?

00:48:50.780 These are just good questions for all of us to ask, and not just ask, but also try to answer.

00:48:56.520 Now, if someone is just stating their opinion, that's just their opinion, and you don't necessarily

00:49:00.500 have to ask all of those things.

00:49:02.240 I mean, you could ask yourself, are the underlying facts that they are referring to true?

00:49:06.340 That's really important.

00:49:07.460 Is this consistent with the other things that they have said?

00:49:10.320 Those things are important.

00:49:11.960 And sometimes, for example, like you go as high up as you possibly can in the information

00:49:16.920 ladder, and then you just have to make your decision from there.

00:49:19.980 For example, I just cited the person who works at DHS, who gave us the other side of the story

00:49:24.640 when it comes to this man who was detained and then released by ICE.

00:49:28.780 At some point, like, you have to say, okay, that person is going to be more in the know

00:49:35.620 than this random journalist from the Associated Press.

00:49:38.920 Now, it's up to you whether or not you want to believe that.

00:49:42.400 Like, and maybe you can even dig further than that to see if this is really true.

00:49:46.520 Maybe you can try to talk to people who are actually related to it.

00:49:50.080 We have to dig as much as we can, though, to try to see, are there alternative explanations

00:49:54.500 to the story and conclusion this person is telling me?

00:49:58.320 All right.

00:49:59.040 We don't have as much time left as I would like, but I do want to quickly go over this

00:50:02.640 Russell Moore article about Romans 13 in just a second.

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00:51:25.040 Okay, Christianity Today editor Russell Moore, we've talked about Russell Moore many times.

00:51:29.740 He published a column on January 14th titled, Christians, Let's Stop Abusing Romans 13.

00:51:33.940 This was in response to Renee Goode being shot by an ICE officer that she partly ran over with

00:51:41.280 her car.

00:51:41.880 He suffered internal bleeding, by the way.

00:51:43.680 You had Mayor Frye from Minneapolis saying, oh, yeah, he didn't really hurt his hip.

00:51:51.160 You could have done that closing a refrigerator door with your hip.

00:51:53.580 Such a bizarre thing to say.

00:51:54.960 He actually suffered internal bleeding.

00:51:56.900 You can see from the camera angles that she did, in fact, run into him.

00:52:00.620 You have no idea what someone is going to do with a deadly weapon like a vehicle.

00:52:04.280 So he took out that threat, not only to him, but to everyone around him.

00:52:09.140 Very, very sad situation, and I mean that.

00:52:11.640 But Russell Moore reacted to it this way, saying, after the killing of Renee Goode, some

00:52:15.140 Christians summoned the biblical chapter of Romans 13 to dismiss moral questions about

00:52:20.220 state violence.

00:52:20.840 That's the opposite of what it teaches.

00:52:24.100 Okay, so let me just read you part of the passage of Romans 13 that he is referring to.

00:52:28.740 This is Romans 13, 1 through 7.

00:52:30.540 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except

00:52:34.240 from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

00:52:37.340 Therefore, whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who

00:52:41.400 resist will incur judgment.

00:52:43.760 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad.

00:52:46.320 Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority?

00:52:48.860 I'm just reading this, and I'm like, really, Russell Moore?

00:52:51.200 The opposite of what it means?

00:52:53.040 I don't think so.

00:52:54.180 Then do what is good, this chapter says, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's

00:52:57.960 servant for your good.

00:52:58.940 But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain.

00:53:02.740 He is a servant of God, an avenger who carries out wrath on the wrongdoer.

00:53:07.660 Therefore, be an exception.

00:53:09.200 You can read the rest of the chapter yourself.

00:53:12.740 He cites this in his article, and he argues this, that Romans 13 is most often invoked not

00:53:19.500 when the state is acting justly, but when Christians feel the urge to quiet their consciences

00:53:25.080 ought to trouble us, not because this habit puts too much weight on biblical authority,

00:53:30.460 but because it attacks it.

00:53:33.140 He also claims that the use of Romans 13 to refuse to question the morality of the use

00:53:38.760 of force violates the passage because other passages command authorities not to abuse power.

00:53:44.760 He cites Luke 3.12-14, Acts 16.37.

00:53:50.100 He says that there are legitimate uses of necessary lethal force on the part of law enforcement,

00:53:57.300 but he is saying that this is not one of those cases, or this is a morally questionable circumstance,

00:54:04.020 and we shouldn't use Romans 13 to silence people who have any questions about it.

00:54:08.860 But that is gaslighting, and that is hyperbole that is also kind of a false choice.

00:54:15.580 I didn't see anyone using Romans 13 to say, well, you can't have questions about this.

00:54:21.600 I didn't see a single person, and I noticed in this article that Russell Moore doesn't provide

00:54:26.100 an actual citation or an example of that.

00:54:29.000 I saw people looking at the footage and saying, wow, she really rammed into him with his car.

00:54:35.400 Now, maybe you've constructed a scenario in your brain where you wouldn't have done the same

00:54:40.320 thing, and you would have done something more tactical and technical, like shooting at the tires,

00:54:44.580 but shooting at the tires, like a vehicle still moves, like when the tires don't have air.

00:54:50.680 And so whatever you think about this scenario, I didn't see anyone using the Bible to try to

00:54:57.580 silence people who had questions.

00:54:59.120 I think it's okay to have questions, and certainly I think that we should feel for her family and

00:55:04.120 be very sad that she got herself into this situation.

00:55:06.820 If you want to know the psychology and the philosophy that I think put her in that situation,

00:55:10.620 you can listen to the episode that we did on that, I believe it was, last week.

00:55:17.200 Let me tell you what is missing from Russell Moore's article, okay, when he's talking about

00:55:22.820 this particular situation, and really from his online footprint in recent years in general.

00:55:28.060 Okay, one, any references to the illegal immigration and criminals being detained by ICE in the U.S.

00:55:35.640 and specifically in Minnesota, where Rene Good was protesting, any consideration of Rene Good's

00:55:41.220 actions that day, any evidence that the ICE officer's actions were unjust?

00:55:45.520 He says it's morally questionable, but he doesn't look at the other side of the question.

00:55:49.180 The fact that the ICE agent suffered internal bleeding after the encounter, any examples of

00:55:53.600 Christians actually saying or even implying, as I said, that the government has a carte blanche

00:55:58.340 justification to use force. So he does this a lot. It's called a straw man, where he is constructing

00:56:07.920 a fake argument that no one is actually using, and then he's tearing it down to make himself look

00:56:13.060 righteous. Eric Reid posted in response, he's a pastor, he said, respectfully, Dr. Moore,

00:56:18.500 no reading of Romans 13 licenses a deranged lesbian to weaponize a car against a federal officer and

00:56:23.960 leave him with internal injuries. Okay, fair point. What I think is interesting is Russell Moore's use

00:56:31.500 of Romans 13 in the past, that he actually used Romans 13 to argue that churches needed to comply

00:56:38.720 with government mandates to shut down worship services during the COVID-19 pandemic. He also

00:56:44.680 encouraged readers to obey all of those mandates. In fact, he said specifically, the state has the power

00:56:50.740 of the sword. That is, quoting Romans 13, for instance, to punish criminals and to maintain civic

00:56:56.060 order, while the church does not. The church has the authority to proclaim the gospel and to define the

00:57:02.340 boundaries of the fellowship within that gospel, and the state does not. The current situation facing us

00:57:06.780 is not a case of the state overstepping its bounds. Really, it's not, but rather seeking to carry out

00:57:12.220 its legitimate God-given authority. And so, like, he contradicts himself there because that's exactly what

00:57:17.560 the state was doing. The state was saying, no, I am going to mandate how you can conduct your worship.

00:57:22.920 This is how far apart you have to be. This is what you have to wear. And this is how many people you

00:57:27.800 can allow or you cannot have these services at all. You have to go virtual. So, the state was

00:57:34.580 overstepping its authority every step of the way when it came to COVID. He says, let's not only,

00:57:42.760 this is during COVID, let's not only obey the laws of our states and cities. Let's seek to do

00:57:46.360 even more than ask in order to shoulder our responsibilities. Let's wash our hands.

00:57:51.640 Stay as far apart as necessary. Pray for our medical personnel and our leaders. And let's

00:57:59.020 pray like never before in doing so. We render to God what is God's and to Caesar's what is Caesar's.

00:58:05.900 And so, no moral responsibility whatsoever of any pastor, any Christian, or any religious leader

00:58:11.060 to not neglect the gathering of the saints. And to make sure that you can actually be with your

00:58:17.340 loved ones who are dying in the hospital. Pray with the sick in person. Hold the hand of the sick.

00:58:22.020 So, you are saying, we serve a Jesus who touched the leper, but I have to stay six feet apart from

00:58:28.100 my grandmother who I may never see again. No thank you, Russell Moore. So, Romans 13 can be invoked to

00:58:35.560 justify the state regulating the parameters of worship for the church, but cannot be invoked to

00:58:43.520 explain why a law enforcement officer might take lethal force against someone who is running over

00:58:49.360 him with a car. Oh, oh my goodness. Is this what you learn in seminary? Okay, Lex Rex. I want to tell

00:58:57.680 you about this concept really quickly. And this is something that I really explored a lot during the era

00:59:02.920 of 2020, when a lot of Christians and a lot of churches were battling, okay, what does it look

00:59:08.320 like to obey Romans 13 and to also stand for what is good, right, and true? Lex Rex is a book written

00:59:14.420 by Scottish Presbyterian minister Samuel Rutherford in 1644. He explains this concept of the law is king.

00:59:22.080 So, he argued that rulers are not given absolute authority, but are governed by the laws of God and

00:59:29.240 morality which should inform and empower the law of the government. And this concept played a big part

00:59:34.540 in the revolution. It still plays a big part in politics today. It is why here in the states even

00:59:39.680 the president is or should be bound by the constitution, bound by law. And the state interfering

00:59:46.000 with church worship is out of its bounds of authority. It violates the First Amendment. Separation of church

00:59:52.760 and state, remember, was not primarily for the state. It was primarily for the protection of

00:59:59.100 the church. And it did not mean that religious people cannot inform the law. It's actually impossible

01:00:04.500 to separate religion and law because religion or lack of religion informs your morality and every law

01:00:10.600 is a moral stance. People say you can't legislate morality. Every piece of legislation is morality.

01:00:16.960 He also has, and we don't have time to get into all of this, he has some changing stances on

01:00:23.600 immigration in the past. He's actually criticized the government for not doing more to keep the

01:00:29.660 border secure. But a lot of people were broken by Trump over the past several years. Like, people just

01:00:37.540 changed. People changed when it came to immigration, when it came to justice, when it came to guns, because

01:00:44.960 they saw being opposed to Trump as being righteous, no matter what. And unfortunately, evangelicals,

01:00:52.560 the Southern Baptist Church, have been pretty weak on this over the years. I talk about this a lot in

01:00:58.000 Toxic Empathy, how unfortunately, a lot of otherwise conservative Christians bought into the lie

01:01:05.320 that deporting people and securing our border and caring about national sovereignty and caring about

01:01:10.820 your national identity is anti-gospel and anti-God. And it's not. So I really encourage you to at least

01:01:17.640 read that chapter of Toxic Empathy. It will be really, really helpful. It's chapter four. Remember, countries

01:01:23.960 are like families. You wouldn't allow a stranger to come into your home and to eat your child's food and to sleep

01:01:29.960 in your child's bed. That wouldn't make you a good neighbor. That would make you a bad parent. God has entrusted you

01:01:35.420 with stewarding your children, with protecting them and providing for them. You do not have the exact same

01:01:41.040 obligation to everyone in the world. You may have different obligations to your neighbors and different

01:01:46.320 obligations for the poor in your community, but it is not the same obligation as you have to your

01:01:53.600 children. The same is true of countries. Maybe we do have some obligation. Some could argue to accept some

01:02:00.340 refugees or asylum seekers or care for those who are vulnerable around the world, but that is not

01:02:06.080 our government's primary responsibility. Our government's primary responsibility is to care

01:02:12.100 for the security, the welfare, the interests of its people, just like that's the French government's

01:02:20.380 primary responsibility or Somalia or Zimbabwe or China. Like this is orderliness and this is good.

01:02:27.280 Remember, God places not in a jungle, but in a garden. What is the difference between a jungle

01:02:32.060 and a garden? Order. God is a God of order. That's why he created families. That's why he created

01:02:37.780 boundaries and borders and nations and laws and languages. This is for our flourishing and for

01:02:44.900 our good. As Christians, we have to be agents of that order. That means caring about national sovereignty,

01:02:50.300 caring about deportations, caring about borders, caring about culture, caring about protecting our

01:02:56.220 neighbors who also live right next to us. By the way, Lake and Riley was your neighbor. Kate Steinle

01:03:00.920 was your neighbor too. All right. So it's time we really think about the order of loves and how God

01:03:09.320 has created this orderliness in the world for our good, both for Christians and non-Christians.

01:03:17.160 All right. Just have one other thing to respond to, and that is the good Sir James Tallarico. You have

01:03:23.280 been asking me to respond to his New York Times interview, and I'll just quickly do that in just

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01:04:35.160 Okay. We've talked about James Tallarico before. He's a Texas House Representative. He represents

01:04:40.760 District 52, which is like Round Rock, Georgetown area. And he gets a lot of national attention

01:04:48.520 because he is bringing forth this form of what I think is a paradoxical phrase, but progressive

01:04:55.540 Christianity, where basically Christianity and morality conforms to the culture rather than the

01:05:03.980 culture needing to conform to Christ. And he did this interview with the New York Times

01:05:10.080 where he talks about his beliefs. Now, this guy, obviously a Democrat, and he believes that there

01:05:16.460 is a Christian justification for being a Democrat and a Christian obligation to oppose Republicans

01:05:23.340 at all costs. But you need to know first, like, what is underneath what he really believes

01:05:28.580 theologically. Here's top 14.

01:05:30.460 How do you think about the competing claims of different religions? Do you believe Christianity

01:05:35.140 to be more true than other religions? Do you believe there to be exclusivity in these beliefs,

01:05:40.220 that they're incompatible with each other?

01:05:42.120 I believe Christianity points to the truth. I also think other religions of love point to the

01:05:46.940 same truth. I think of different religious traditions as different languages. So you and I could sit here

01:05:51.660 and debate what to call this cup. And you could call it a cup in English. You'd call it something

01:05:55.780 else in Spanish and French. But we are all talking about the same reality. I believe Jesus Christ

01:06:01.580 reveals that reality to us. But I also think that other traditions reveal that reality in their own

01:06:06.640 ways with their own symbol structures. And I've learned more about my tradition by learning more about

01:06:12.460 Buddhism and Hinduism and Islam and Judaism. And so I see these beautiful faith traditions as circling

01:06:18.440 the same truth about the universe, about the cosmos.

01:06:23.040 Islam, famously the religion of love. It doesn't work when the tenets of one religion actually oppose

01:06:30.220 the tenets of another religion. It can't all be circling around the same truth. Jesus himself in

01:06:35.000 John 14, 6 says,

01:06:36.080 I am the way, the truth, the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

01:06:42.180 John 3, 36,

01:06:43.440 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath

01:06:49.200 of God remains on him. Acts 4, 12,

01:06:52.060 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no name under heaven given among men by which we must be

01:07:00.860 saved. James Tallarico claims to be a Christian, yet he denies this very fundamental truth.

01:07:06.060 As almost every single so-called progressive Christian does. He also says that Christ never

01:07:12.660 mentioned homosexuality and abortion. This is one of my favorites, Sot 15.

01:07:16.540 For the past 50 years in this country, the religious right, a political movement, convinced a lot of

01:07:22.760 Christians in America that the two most important issues were abortion and homosexuality. Two issues

01:07:29.940 that aren't really discussed in scripture. Abortion is never mentioned. Consensual,

01:07:35.320 same-sex relationships are never mentioned. It's remarkable to me that you have an entire

01:07:40.980 political movement using Christianity to prioritize two issues that Jesus never talked about.

01:07:48.220 Jesus never talked about them. Well, Jesus is God. So the entirety of scripture is also Jesus's words,

01:07:54.300 not just the red letters. If you look at Exodus 2013, very simple. You shall not murder. Abortion is

01:08:01.500 murdered. That means it is prohibited in the Big Ten, the Ten Commandments. Genesis 9-6 also reiterates

01:08:07.560 this. Whoever sheds the blood of man by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image.

01:08:13.380 Wow, murder was so bad that the death penalty was the only just punishment for it. Also, Leviticus

01:08:19.160 20-13 says that a man lying with another man is an abomination. And then you go to the New Testament,

01:08:26.700 Matthew 19, 4-5, Jesus himself says, have you not read that in the beginning he made them male and

01:08:35.200 female? For this reason, a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two

01:08:40.300 shall become one flesh. Jesus right there goes all the way back to creation to reiterate the creation

01:08:46.900 reality of only male and female and the definition of marriage between one man and one woman. Romans 1

01:08:53.440 describes very explicitly that women exchange natural relations for those that are contrary to

01:08:59.300 nature. Men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one

01:09:04.920 another. Men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their

01:09:10.900 error. And God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.

01:09:15.980 1 Corinthians 6-9 also says, neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men

01:09:22.660 who practice homosexuality will inherit the kingdom of God. James Tallarico, he doesn't know his Bible,

01:09:30.880 or he just trusts that you don't know your Bible, so he's lying to you. Now, he also says that a real

01:09:36.040 Christian nation would outsource individual compassion to the government. Sot 16.

01:09:40.880 These politicians want a Christian nation unless it means providing health care to the sick or

01:09:47.420 funding food assistance for the hungry or raising the minimum wage for the poor. And so it seems like

01:09:55.800 they want to base our laws on the Bible until they read the words of Jesus. Welcome the stranger,

01:10:01.040 liberate the oppressed, put away your sword, sell all your possessions, and give the money to the poor.

01:10:06.660 I mean, I'm not exactly sure a Christian nation is really what these people want.

01:10:13.280 Okay, I love this because this exposes the hypocrisy. Because these people will say that

01:10:19.840 it's bad for Christians like me to say, well, you know, I think that murder is wrong because the Ten

01:10:24.220 Commandments, because of Psalm 139, because of Jeremiah 1-5. Abortion is murder, and we shouldn't

01:10:29.500 murder babies. Oh, that's scary Christian nationalism. Or if I say, well, God created borders. We see in

01:10:34.680 Nehemiah that there is wisdom in walls. Of course, in Proverbs, a man without walls is like, or a man

01:10:40.580 without self-control is like a city without walls. So we can see the principles in there and probably

01:10:44.840 think that it's wise to apply those principles to our law, just as the founders believed. Oh,

01:10:49.740 that's scary Christo-fascism. But then they'll turn around and say, no, we want a Christian nation.

01:10:56.300 We just want to take the words of Jesus to justify communism. We want to take the words of Jesus that

01:11:01.720 were specifically spoken to his apostles and apply them to law today. But that's not Christian

01:11:06.760 nationalism. See, they decontextualize the words of Jesus, try to apply it to policy or apply it to

01:11:14.180 the government. And that apparently is fine. But we look at the principles of the law given to Israel

01:11:19.500 to give us wisdom about lawmaking and morality here today. And that's just completely uncalled for.

01:11:25.120 That apparently is some form of tyranny. They'll look at the early church and they'll see that the Holy

01:11:31.380 Spirit empowered Christians in Acts to give away everything they had to make sure that people

01:11:36.400 are taken care of. And they'll say, oh, that justifies putting people at gunpoint, forcing

01:11:41.240 them to give up their possession so we can redistribute it to other people, which is what

01:11:44.960 the welfare state does. Second Corinthians 9, 7, each one must give as he has decided in his heart,

01:11:51.040 not reluctantly or under compulsion for God loves a cheerful giver. It also says, we don't have this

01:11:59.020 passage right in front of us. He who is not willing to work shall not eat. He who is not willing to

01:12:04.700 work shall not eat. I believe that's in 2 Thessalonians 3, Acts 2, 44 through 45. And all

01:12:10.240 who believed were together and had all things in common. They were selling their possessions and

01:12:13.720 belongings and distributing the proceeds to all as any had need, again, voluntarily through the power

01:12:18.360 of the Holy Spirit, not because of the compulsion of the state. And I also just want to remind people

01:12:26.140 that there was a bit of a scandal with James Tallarico a few years ago. He, according to the

01:12:31.660 New York Post, follows a number of OnlyFans accounts on Instagram, which is troubling. Oh gosh,

01:12:37.820 what did Jesus say about adultery and lusting after women in your heart? You know, maybe James

01:12:45.660 Tallarico, the theological expert, could tell us. Well, hopefully I get a chance to talk to James

01:12:52.120 Tallarico one day. I would love to discuss and debate these ideas with him. I think it would

01:12:57.620 be really fun. All right. That's all we've got time for today. As you can tell, I was a little

01:13:01.480 fired up. Sarcastic Alley always comes out when I am. But these are really serious things. And

01:13:06.440 sometimes a little sarcasm is exactly what you need to get straight to the point. All right. On Friday,

01:13:12.200 we will be here talking to a cybersecurity expert about what we actually need to know about technology,

01:13:17.140 a different side of social media and technology that you may not have thought about. Make sure to tune

01:13:22.160 in then. And I will see you guys on Friday.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - January 21, 2026

Ep 1291 ｜ Warning to Churches： Here’s What’s Coming Your Way

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