Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1374 ｜ Kathryn Krick： Apostle or Actress？ The Truth About Her Viral Exorcisms

00:00:00.740 Catherine Crick is a pastor of a large church in Los Angeles.

00:00:03.700 She also calls herself an apostle.

00:00:05.860 She regularly goes viral for her faith healing and deliverance videos.

00:00:10.620 But who is she?

00:00:12.040 Where does she come from?

00:00:13.020 And how do her teachings and practices actually stack up against the word of God?

00:00:18.120 Buckle up.

00:00:19.180 You're going to want to stick around for the entire episode today.

00:00:21.720 We have got so much about Catherine Crick and also the movement that she is a part of

00:00:26.920 on today's episode of Relatable.

00:00:30.000 hey y'all welcome to relatable happy wednesday hope everyone has had a wonderful week so we're

00:00:43.720 doing things a little bit differently today typically wednesday is our news episode and

00:00:49.100 today is going to feel more like a theology episode as we talk about this person who calls

00:00:54.800 herself apostle katherine crick going through her background some of the doctrines that she teaches

00:00:59.820 some of the practices that she displays on social media, and then comparing them to the

00:01:05.280 word of God and asking ourselves, is this person a true edifying teacher of the word of God? Is

00:01:10.900 she truly an apostle or is she something else entirely that Christians really need to look out

00:01:17.300 for? But I could not wait until next Monday to talk about all of this. I put out a video on

00:01:22.800 Instagram reacting to a recent interaction she was having with some of her fans, which we'll play in

00:01:28.540 just a couple of minutes. Got a ton of comments about this. There's a lot of disagreement in my

00:01:34.060 audience about this person and the things that she does. And so I think it's really important

00:01:38.740 to talk about and to give you my perspective and much more importantly, what I believe the

00:01:43.000 word of God has to say about this kind of teaching, if you can call it that. First,

00:01:49.500 before we get into it, just a reminder, come to share the arrows. If you are a Christian

00:01:53.720 woman, you need to come to share the arrows, whether you agree with the contents of this

00:01:57.940 episode or whether you completely disagree with the contents of this episode, I really encourage

00:02:02.800 you to join us on October 10th in Dallas, Texas. I promise you, you will leave edified. You will

00:02:09.460 leave taught. You will leave challenged. You will leave equipped. You will leave rejuvenated and

00:02:15.420 refreshed. This is a gospel filled, no fluff teaching conference just for women. We've got

00:02:22.660 Shane and Shane leading us in worship. I'm so excited about that. Elisa Childers is making

00:02:27.360 her way back for the third time. This time with Natasha Crane, we've got Rosaria Butterfield

00:02:32.220 coming back for the second time. Audrey Brogy, her daughter, Grace Anna Castleberry. We've got

00:02:36.740 a Related Bro, Kosti Hen. This year's Share the Arrows is brought to you by our friends at Adele

00:02:41.940 Natural Cosmetics. And one more thing before we get into the bulk of our episode, and that is to

00:02:47.280 remind you that every other Saturday, my dad puts out an episode on YouTube, on all of the different

00:02:54.040 podcast platforms. And you should definitely be tuning into that. He gives a different perspective

00:02:58.780 with his experience and his own expertise than I put forth three times a week. And it is typically

00:03:08.740 filled with wisdom about economics, finances, the different choices that you can make in your

00:03:14.820 family. But he also gives his perspective on foreign policy. He also has a political background.

00:03:20.060 when I was in college, he was a state representative for the state of Texas. And so

00:03:24.300 he also has that perspective as someone who really understands how all of this works on a legislative

00:03:30.100 level. Only watch that and listen to that if you want to be smarter by the end of it. If you want

00:03:35.840 a better understanding of how the world works and specifically the state our country is in,

00:03:40.700 if you want to feel better about the state that our country is in, the state that our world is in,

00:03:45.480 if you want to feel more peaceful, then you should listen to my dad's episodes every other

00:03:49.840 Saturday. All right, let's get into it. We've got a lot to get into. My team and I worked really,

00:03:55.620 really hard on all of the research, on all of the details. We wanted to make sure that we got

00:04:00.620 everything exactly correct, that we have every source exactly the way that we want it, that we

00:04:05.620 have all the examples that we can give of the arguments that we are making. And as always,

00:04:11.440 we welcome your comments and your thoughts along the way, especially if you are watching this on

00:04:16.780 YouTube. So let's get into it. Who is Catherine Crick? Maybe you've heard about her just in the

00:04:21.980 past few weeks. Maybe you've been following her for a while. Maybe you have no idea who I'm

00:04:25.240 talking about. There she is. It's a great color on her. She calls herself an apostle,

00:04:30.720 apostle Catherine Crick. She has become a digital phenomenon over the past few years.

00:04:35.500 She's got videos of supposed exorcisms, apparent demonic deliverance and faith healings.

00:04:40.780 She regularly goes viral. She is the lead pastor of a booming charismatic church. It's called

00:04:46.400 5F Church or Fivefold Church in Los Angeles. And across all of her social media platforms,

00:04:52.020 she's got millions of followers. She also offers online courses on deliverance ministry.

00:04:58.460 She's published three books. She's got The Secret of the Anointing, Accessing the Power of God to

00:05:03.940 Walk in Miracles, Unlock Your Deliverance, Keys to Freedom from Demonic Oppression, and then her

00:05:09.800 latest book, Ignite Revival, Be Set on Fire to Change the World. This latest book, just to show

00:05:17.300 again, her popularity, her pervasiveness and culture, it reached number eight on nonfiction

00:05:22.940 books on the USA Today bestseller list for two weeks. And again, just to give you a sense of

00:05:30.200 how popular she seems to be and how much those who follow her really love her, I'm going to play you

00:05:36.360 this, um, this clip of the people who are at her book signing. I think it was down in Houston at a

00:05:43.460 bookstore reacting to her. Okay. So she is a pair. She's just signing a book right now. And for those

00:05:49.620 of you who are listening, I'm going to describe a UC people just, they just start to convulse

00:05:53.740 in front of her. They start to, I don't, I'm just, I don't know how else to say it except

00:05:58.380 for spaz out. They start convulsing. They start falling on chairs. She's not in some of these

00:06:04.060 physically casting out demons or even saying anything, they are just in her presence.

00:06:09.500 They are laying prostrate on the floor and their body starts to make these seizure-like

00:06:15.920 movements. There are other videos online that feature her knocking down crowds of her followers

00:06:22.560 by blowing into a microphone. Yeah, you can see she's just, so again, for those who are listening,

00:06:29.560 She's, she's waving her arms around.

00:06:31.820 She's waving her arms around.

00:06:33.140 She starts blowing frantically into the microphone.

00:06:36.740 Also, you can see if someone has their eyes closed and doesn't realize that they should

00:06:41.760 be following, falling down.

00:06:43.640 She starts to verbally tell them like the anointing is on you.

00:06:48.000 Like this guy right here, his eyes are closed.

00:06:50.480 And so they had to do a jump cut until he fell down to the ground.

00:06:54.820 And I'm sorry, but I'm already thinking that there's something going on there with the editing

00:07:00.100 process. These are the kinds of things that we are not taking out of context. These are videos

00:07:05.760 that she and her team are posting themselves as a demonstration of the apparent power,

00:07:11.900 the supposed power that she has as an alleged apostle. All right, we'll get into more of it

00:07:18.640 in just a second. Let me pause. Let me tell you about our first sponsor. It's Alliance Defending

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00:08:10.200 to fight for fairness, not just in America, but all around the world. I was just with ADF a few

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00:08:38.600 slash Allie. Okay. So some of you, I've already seen some of you comment and say, this really

00:08:48.640 reminds you of Benny Hinn. Now you might've heard me say the name Costi Hinn just a few minutes ago

00:08:54.300 when I was talking about share the arrows, Costi Hinn is Benny Hinn's nephew and grew up in this

00:09:01.360 name it and claim it faith healing, kind of hyper charismatic movement that you just saw kind of

00:09:07.960 demonstrated through katherine crick it is very similar of course costi hen is no longer a part

00:09:14.380 of that theology has denounced that theology and is such a wonderful preacher of the true gospel

00:09:20.320 and the word of god and he talks a lot about the false teachings of his uncle and people who

00:09:25.700 believe him so just to go down memory lane this is what this kind of teaching has looked like

00:09:32.940 in decades past, SOP 15.

00:09:59.920 Okay, first time wasn't enough.

00:10:01.780 knock me down and get back up again. Three separate knockdowns to release the pain in his

00:10:07.460 chest, as you see. As we will talk about, this kind of mechanism for apparent healing is not

00:10:14.480 actually what we see when we read about healing in scripture. We'll get into that in just a little

00:10:20.480 bit. Maybe this reminds you of someone like Paula White. Now remember, Paula White is Trump's

00:10:26.280 spiritual advisor. We have talked about her and her problematic theology several times. Here she

00:10:32.000 is doing a similar song and dance at 16. Fire, fire, fire. Fairness is broken. Come on. Fair enough.

00:10:40.460 Hey! You! Come on, they're soaking off your life in Jesus' name. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

00:10:50.020 and great great joy okay oh my goodness i'm sorry it's very difficult not to laugh because it does

00:10:59.760 absolutely look like nonsense and it looks nothing like when jesus was casting out demons

00:11:05.980 and say for example mark five again i don't want to get too ahead of ourselves we're going to get

00:11:11.400 into all of that i want to focus right now on katherine crick and who she who she is but just

00:11:16.080 to give you some context, Catherine Crick is not new. She is carrying on the legacy of a lot of

00:11:21.300 people who become very popular, whether it is televangelism, like in the era of Benny Hinn

00:11:28.360 on social media, like what she's using today. This is the new health and wealth leader for

00:11:35.380 the age of TikTok. And there are really three main distinctives of Catherine Crick's ministry

00:11:41.780 that concerned me that we will discuss today. The first one is her self-proclaimed title of

00:11:47.140 apostle. The second is her theatrical exorcisms and healings. And then the third is her guaranteeing

00:11:53.700 spiritual blessings for financial donations, apostle, theatrical exorcisms, and then promising

00:12:01.360 spiritual blessing for donations. My concerns, because I know I'm going to get this criticism

00:12:09.320 from people who just assume that I'm calling her out because I'm not charismatic. But my concerns

00:12:14.900 are not centered on that she's charismatic. What I mean by that is someone who believes in prophecy

00:12:21.020 and speaking in tongues and healing. There are many solid Christians I respect who are what we

00:12:26.140 call continuationists, who believe that the miracle gifts continue on today and must continue through

00:12:31.620 the church. I am not charismatic. I am not a continuationist. I'm a Southern Baptist who

00:12:36.700 believes that the miracle gifts of the Holy Spirit as normative practices among Christians

00:12:41.860 have ceased with the apostles, the eyewitnesses of the resurrected Jesus. So gifts like speaking

00:12:47.440 in tongues and foretelling prophecy, I believe that those have ceased as a rule. Now that does

00:12:53.540 not mean that I am quote unquote limiting God. It doesn't mean that I think that God can't do

00:12:58.400 these things. God can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants, however he wants. But those

00:13:02.780 who are called cessationists believe that those are not the mechanisms that he typically uses

00:13:09.740 today. And we can get into that debate another day. That disagreement is not actually the focus

00:13:15.440 of my concern when it comes to Catherine Crick. My concern is that she may be using charismatic

00:13:21.700 theology, a dynamic personality, the power of social media to spiritually manipulate and

00:13:27.980 emotionally manipulate people into providing her with wealth and power. But let's talk about who

00:13:34.540 she is. And you can decide for yourself at the end of all of this, whether my concerns are justified

00:13:39.400 or whether you think they aren't. So first let's back up. Where did Catherine Crick come from?

00:13:45.360 We'll look at some of her history and some of her early career. This is not a lifelong dedication to

00:13:51.220 ministry. According to Alta Journal, that's a California-based magazine. They talk about arts

00:13:56.700 and culture. They chronicle her rise as a well-known minister, and they note that it began

00:14:03.460 not in seminary, but in Los Angeles in the acting world. In 2013, she moved to LA to pursue acting.

00:14:13.600 Her acting reel from this period features her playing in several different roles. The first

00:14:18.440 clip in her reel features her in a swimsuit with other women chasing a man, advertising a dating

00:14:23.640 site called cougar life with the tagline cougarlife.com where the women chase you uh the

00:14:29.740 second clip is her playing a porn star in a sitcom pilot here's that one so jonas do you do you have

00:14:36.560 a girlfriend back home um i had a fiance um does that count and you decided to move in with a porn

00:14:41.960 star our parents wanted us to get married and and i couldn't go through with it so i just felt like

00:14:49.100 My whole life was being planned out for me.

00:14:51.800 So I came here to start fresh.

00:14:56.080 Well, you definitely came to the right place.

00:15:01.900 Okay, so we didn't play the first video of her advertising for Cougar Life

00:15:07.320 because we're not going to show her in a bathing suit.

00:15:09.380 The only reason we played that is because that in itself is an innocuous clip,

00:15:14.180 but that's just an example from her own acting reel

00:15:17.380 of the kind of parts that she was going for um she also appeared on the reality show love at first

00:15:23.280 kiss a dating show where strangers participate in a deep french kiss on a blind date after which

00:15:28.900 they decide whether they want to pursue a relationship here she is on that saw two

00:15:35.500 it's weird enough for me to kiss someone i don't know so i really want it to be just a nice innocent

00:15:41.100 Okay. This is crazy. I can't believe this life. What? What just happened? I feel like I'm in

00:15:53.600 heaven. Where are the clouds and the angels flying around? Okay. So she was using lots of

00:16:01.000 different outlets to get her name on there. We'll say that. So she tried to make it in the acting

00:16:07.400 world. And then she spent a brief period pursuing a career as a Christian electronic dance music

00:16:13.420 artist. All right. It was shortly after this that she says that she found her calling as an

00:16:36.680 apostles. She has a video on her YouTube channel, um, where she says that she became interested in

00:16:43.540 what's called deliverance ministry after attending churches where she witnessed things like healings

00:16:49.320 and exorcisms. And her life took a dramatic turn in September, 2016. So about a year after that

00:16:55.340 music video that we just played when she attended a healing anointing and impartation conference in

00:17:01.040 LA led by Tanzanian minister, self-proclaimed prophet, Jor Davi. So Jor Davi had built a

00:17:08.680 following around claims of miraculous healings, deliverance from demons, while also cultivating

00:17:13.180 a lavish lifestyle, a very successful business empire, and an extensive media presence in

00:17:20.460 Tanzania. So he is like the African Benny Hinn. We're playing a video, again, very similar things.

00:17:27.200 I mean, you've got people falling straight to the ground.

00:17:30.380 It's so often these congregations are filled with people who look like they may be struggling

00:17:35.440 financially, but the person who is supposedly casting out these demons, they are also, they're

00:17:41.100 always dressed to the nines.

00:17:43.760 And that is because sowing financial seeds to donate to these apparent healers is a big

00:17:51.080 part of this ministry.

00:17:52.620 I think non-coincidentally, um, during the conference door Davey,

00:17:56.740 the one that she attended in LA, that Crick attended in LA, apparently called Crick out

00:18:02.260 from the crowd by name, delivered a personal prophecy to her, telling her that she had been

00:18:07.800 chosen to become an apostle of Jesus Christ who would reach the nations and through whom God would

00:18:13.200 perform many miracles. And Crick has since described that particular encounter as the moment

00:18:18.520 that she first believed that she had been called into apostolic ministry. Here she is in that

00:18:24.800 moment, stop four. Do what you please to make this anointing known. This is another gift to make this

00:18:36.740 anointing known. Receive this anointing now. This is different. Okay. Okay. So there she is falling

00:18:51.140 to the ground after what looks like grape juice in a plastic bottle was poured onto her head and

00:18:56.820 she attributes her spiritual authority really to the anointing maybe not entirely entirely but it

00:19:05.860 seems in large part um to the anointing of this person named jordavey top five we plant this seed

00:19:12.860 at your feet daddy for god to have our way with us to serve you

00:19:17.820 We want the world to know you

00:19:27.080 We want you to be famous

00:19:30.640 So that the real Jesus

00:19:34.060 Who is full of love and power

00:19:37.640 May be known

00:19:39.920 They will not know the real Jesus

00:19:43.340 Unless they know you

00:19:47.820 Okay. I was very confused about to whom she was speaking there. And I was hoping, actually,

00:19:54.100 I found myself hoping, okay, please be talking to God. Please be talking to God when you're saying

00:19:59.600 daddy. Even if that makes me wince, that would be better than her talking to this person that

00:20:05.620 she apparently just met in this moment and just anointed her. But she is talking to this person,

00:20:13.980 calling him daddy, saying, we want to make you famous because without you, she says,

00:20:21.180 they will not know the real Jesus unless they know you to this individual. Now, do we see any

00:20:27.800 biblical support for that idea that God needs a particular individual in order to make his way

00:20:33.340 known or to make his gospel known, to make himself known? No, he doesn't need us. He chooses to use

00:20:40.180 us, but it is his voice that his sheep hear and understand and know. He is the one who seeks and

00:20:48.000 he saves the lost. He doesn't need a single one of us in order to accomplish his purposes. But

00:20:53.780 here, Catherine Creek says of this person that they will not know Jesus unless they know George

00:21:01.080 Davy. Wow. So to understand her a little bit more, we got to understand who George Davy is.

00:21:06.560 This person that she has claimed over and over again is her spiritual father, is her

00:21:11.400 spiritual daddy, the person who has mentored her, the person who has shaped what she actually

00:21:16.760 believes.

00:21:17.340 Is this person a solid guy with a good reputation?

00:21:20.980 Does he have a history of solid biblical teaching?

00:21:24.280 Does he have good fruit coming from his ministry?

00:21:26.960 We'll answer those questions in just a second.

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00:22:21.880 sevenweekscoffee.com, code Allie. So if you look at George Davies' website, he claims that he has

00:22:32.580 been commissioned by God to ignite the fire of apostolic and prophetic global revival across

00:22:37.260 the nations. He has a divine mandate to do so. And by his own account, George Davies got his

00:22:42.120 start as a prophet at just age five, prophesying to his grandmother that she only had five years

00:22:47.060 to live. His grandmother died five years later, and George Davies cites this as proof of his

00:22:52.860 calling as a prophet. I'm just saying if you've got a grandmother who is extremely aged, you have

00:22:59.520 probably a pretty good chance that they're going to die sometime in the close future. I don't know

00:23:06.680 if that's necessarily an indication of someone being a prophet sent from God. Like Crick, he has

00:23:13.400 a cult-like following one of the members of his church which draws 5 000 attendees weekly tattooed

00:23:20.480 his name on her body resulting in her husband divorcing her this is according to tuco news

00:23:26.300 we'll put up a picture of that um he's also been accused of sexual misconduct with multiple women

00:23:31.860 alleging that he propositioned them for sex according to christian post um ansi visser a

00:23:37.440 south african minister who worked in prophetic ministry with george davy for years told burning

00:23:41.840 Point Ministries, the source cited in the Christian Post article that there were three

00:23:45.980 ladies, including one that Visser knew well, who told her that George Davy asked, quote,

00:23:51.120 to have sexual relationships with them. After Visser confronted George Davy about approaching

00:23:55.920 these women, he cut off contact with her. Apparently, they no longer have any friendship.

00:24:02.280 To those who critique Crick's allegiance to George Davy, Crick says that she tells them,

00:24:11.040 get behind me, Satan, thought six. You know what I say to that, to all those people who say that to

00:24:18.700 me, who have said that to me in the past, and who will say it to me in the future, I say these

00:24:24.480 familiar words that Jesus said one time to a Christian. Get behind me, Satan. Hallelujah.

00:24:34.880 okay so this is in a video about why i could never leave my spiritual father so

00:24:44.380 get behind me satan there are also a lot of questions and criticisms about how this person

00:24:49.820 who is from a very poor country whose ministry is primarily focused on this very poor country

00:24:54.620 he apparently is among very poor people in tanzania that how he has acquired so much

00:25:02.500 wealth over time. Wealth in itself is not evil. Being a good businessman and making profit from

00:25:10.840 business endeavors is not evil, but apparently you're calling yourself an apostle or a prophet

00:25:17.020 or a minister of the Lord, getting rich off of the donations of poor people because they have

00:25:24.380 been convinced that doing so will help them spiritually. That is wrong. And again, do we see

00:25:30.460 biblical precedent for prophets being treated in this way, prophets being treated as idols,

00:25:35.940 prophets being treated as these famous and beloved people by all those who hear them? No,

00:25:43.620 of course not. That is not how the prophets were received throughout scripture. And so it's very

00:25:48.800 interesting that these people who profess to be prophets and apostles are treated so much

00:25:54.080 differently than the apostles and prophets were treated in biblical times and are able to become

00:25:59.720 so rich and so comfortable and so powerful and so popular through their supposed ministries.

00:26:05.600 Under Jordavy's mentorship, Crick adopted the title of apostle and learned practices associated

00:26:10.600 with faith healing and deliverance ministry. In 2017, she began a church called Advanced Anointing

00:26:17.560 and met in parks, rented spaces around LA. It was relatively small. She's posted herself like,

00:26:24.780 this is what it looked like back in 2017 just a few people on what seems like a hillside and of

00:26:32.200 course they were unable to meet indoors during the pandemic and so she moved her services to public

00:26:36.820 parks across LA filming them for Facebook and YouTube she rebranded advanced anointing eventually

00:26:44.260 as 5F or fivefold church and she called the gatherings revival in the park and just a little

00:26:53.040 bit of context on the name, fivefold ministry refers to Ephesians 4.11. He gave the apostles,

00:26:59.360 the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds, and teachers to equip the saints of the work

00:27:03.000 of ministry for building up the body of Christ. And so she believes that that description there

00:27:09.340 is applicable to her and to her church today. And she would probably say Christianity in general

00:27:14.600 today. Before 2020, her small congregation remained largely unknown, drew little attention

00:27:20.420 online. And then she claims that God instructed her to compile a highlight reel of the year's

00:27:26.180 most dramatic miracles that she had been a part of. She posted it to TikTok on December 30th,

00:27:31.820 2020. And by January 1st, it had surpassed a million views, thousands of people claiming

00:27:38.160 that they had experienced miracles just by watching online. And then by 2022,

00:27:44.660 her YouTube subscribers had grown to a quarter of a million. Today, across all platforms,

00:27:49.180 she's got 2.5 million followers. Okay. She's gained a lot of popularity. What are my concerns?

00:27:56.960 We'll go through those three main concerns and then I will substantiate them. So let's go to

00:28:01.460 main concern. Number one, her claim of apostleship. Here she is calling herself an apostle. So seven,

00:28:08.940 my faith grew as I saw him come through for me, as he provided, he's provided an apartment,

00:28:13.880 He provided furniture. He provided a job. The first audition I went on, I got the role.

00:28:21.740 Things along the way, my faith was growing. And this was step one in this journey to prepare me

00:28:31.020 to accept the calling of being an apostle. In the beginning of me being called to be an apostle,

00:28:36.560 I had to work through being free of religion because I really had that. I was insecure about

00:28:42.420 hearing God's voice. I was insecure about praying to God. I was insecure that I didn't read my Bible

00:28:49.120 enough. Okay. I'm just on that one part that she says she had to be free of religion. We did an

00:28:57.480 episode pretty recently about religion versus relationship and what I think is a false dichotomy

00:29:03.020 there that you can go back and listen to. We'll link that in the past episode. This idea of being

00:29:07.520 free of religion typically means being free of the standards of the word of God. You'll hear a

00:29:14.380 lot of people in this world say that we shouldn't limit God to a book or we shouldn't limit God to

00:29:20.880 a Bible. But of course, it's not a limitation to go to God's infallible and errant word to tell us,

00:29:27.940 okay, how should we live? What should church look like? How should we conduct our lives? How should

00:29:33.320 we order our churches? How should we order our families? Of course, there will be some

00:29:37.660 disagreement there, but that's not a limitation. Some in the charismatic movement, which is

00:29:43.500 a segment of Christianity that, again, emphasizes gifts of the Holy Spirit, like prophecy, speaking

00:29:48.960 in tongues, hearing audibly from God, divine physical healing, teach that God is restoring

00:29:54.620 the offices of apostles and prophets today. And that is what is called the new apostolic

00:30:02.620 Reformation. We'll get into more of that in just a second. But that is kind of the theological

00:30:08.400 legacy that she is coming from when she is explaining that she is an apostle. And remember,

00:30:13.420 she says she was commissioned as an apostle by her spiritual mentor, George Davey, and she appeals

00:30:19.920 to her apostolic authority when defending her ministry and then also attacking her critics.

00:30:26.240 She says that her critics, because she's an apostle, will be unable to stop her. She quotes

00:30:32.580 the Pharisee, Gamaliel, advising the other Jews not to obstruct the apostles because they might

00:30:38.680 be going up against God. So she cites Acts 5, 38 through 39. She said, so in the present case,

00:30:45.980 I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone. For if this plan or this undertaking is of

00:30:50.240 man, it will fail. But if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be

00:30:56.360 found opposing God. And so she uses that to say, look, you better watch out. If you oppose me,

00:31:02.960 if you criticize me, if you say these things aren't legit, you might just be opposing God.

00:31:08.220 Now this is powerful. Listen to this. You will only find yourselves fighting against God.

00:31:18.220 you will not be able to stop them

00:31:25.280 you hear that you will not you can say all the crafty lies you want to say

00:31:35.920 you can try all you want to get people to try to believe your lies and you will fail

00:31:44.080 okay so you see how this appointing is used to preempt criticism or to shut down criticism

00:31:53.620 rather than going through you know this is what people have said and here is my response biblically

00:31:58.780 it's well here are some people who have been mean which i'm against distorting what someone looks

00:32:04.420 like or lying about someone absolutely no matter how much you disagree with them but let me use

00:32:09.800 these extreme examples and call myself an apostle just to say, hey, you're going against God. That's

00:32:16.560 not honest. It's not honest. As Voddie Bauckham explains about the age of the apostles, the age

00:32:24.120 of apostolic authority no longer exists right now, sod nine. It's interesting. A lot of people today

00:32:31.740 will call themselves apostles. And let me say unequivocally, we have no apostles today. Amen.

00:32:39.800 They're gone.

00:32:41.440 The age of the apostles is over.

00:32:43.320 There are no apostles today.

00:32:47.220 According to the book of Ephesians, chapter 2,

00:32:50.040 the apostles and the prophets were the foundation upon which the church is built.

00:32:57.800 I don't know how many foundations your house has.

00:33:00.080 Mine only has one.

00:33:04.800 Gosh, man, we lost so many good ones last year.

00:33:07.700 So many good ones, including Vodibacham. The 12 foundational apostles, and it's interesting that

00:33:14.580 he cites Ephesians 2, talking about the apostles as the foundation. Remember, her church is called

00:33:19.040 Bible Church and refers to Ephesians 4. The apostles, the prophets, he equips those. Well,

00:33:25.460 that was talking, or equipped, actually used past tense, talking about the foundational apostles,

00:33:31.080 not this ongoing apostolic authority. So foundational apostles, Peter, Andrew, James,

00:33:38.500 John, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James, Thaddeus, Simon, the zealot, Judas Iscariot,

00:33:44.240 who was later, of course, replaced with Matthias, and then Paul, who was also chosen after his

00:33:48.920 conversion, but of course, did see Jesus and did interact with Jesus. The apostles were personally

00:33:56.240 chosen by christ okay that is one distinctive of an apostle luke 6 13 and when day came he called

00:34:03.200 his disciples and chose from them 12 whom he named apostles acts 1 1 through 2 and the first book o

00:34:09.520 theophilus i have dealt with all that jesus began to do and teach until the day when he was taken

00:34:14.580 up after he had given commands through the holy spirit to the apostles whom he had chosen paul

00:34:19.320 had to defend his apostleship on the basis that christ had appeared to him and called him because

00:34:23.580 when Jesus was alive, he was terrorizing Christians. He was making sure that Christians

00:34:28.780 were martyred. He had to defend his actual apostleship by saying this in 1 Corinthians

00:34:33.440 9.1, am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? So that is his substantiation,

00:34:40.860 his evidence that he is an apostle. He has seen Jesus our Lord. In 1 Corinthians 15.7-9,

00:34:46.240 Paul says, Christ appeared to him last of all, last of all, implying that the resurrection

00:34:50.720 appearances establishing apostolic witness had reached their conclusion. So after the apostolic

00:34:57.140 era, early church leaders acknowledged that they did not share the apostles' unique authority

00:35:01.420 because no one today can meet the biblical qualifications for apostleship because Jesus

00:35:06.020 has already ascended into heaven or received from the original apostles. There are no apostles in

00:35:12.140 the New Testament since today. The Bible therefore remains the church's only apostolic authority that

00:35:18.260 still exists today. The idea that new apostles are being ordained today comes from in large part

00:35:24.640 what we referenced just a few minutes ago, this new apostolic reformation. We'll get into what

00:35:29.920 the NAR is. You probably heard about it. Elisa Childers has done a lot of good work on it.

00:35:34.500 Mike Winger has done a lot of good work on it. We'll just do a brief description of what the

00:35:39.600 NAR is in a second. Let me pause, tell you about Legacy Box. Legacy Box is such a cool and unique

00:35:45.700 service. If you've got all the different kinds of memories that you don't know what to do with,

00:35:49.960 you don't know how to organize, you don't know how to make sure that they are preserved,

00:35:53.620 especially if you're moving soon, or maybe you're trying to take care of an aging relative,

00:35:58.720 you want to make sure that you can keep those VHS tapes, those pictures, you got to digitize

00:36:03.760 them. You got to save them in the cloud. That's the best way to make sure that you can pass down

00:36:08.400 these memories to the next generation. That's what Legacy Box does. They send you this big

00:36:12.920 cardboard box. You put in all of these, you know, all of your videos and pictures and everything

00:36:17.600 into there. You send it to them and they hand preserve each of these. They digitize everything.

00:36:24.720 The videos, the tapes, the pictures that you have, they organize them. They save them to the

00:36:29.960 cloud. They send that file to you. And then they send you back all of the hard copies of everything.

00:36:35.880 What a great gift to give to yourself, to give to your family, to give to your mom, aunt, or uncle,

00:36:40.820 go to LegacyBox.com slash Allie. They're having an America 250 sale going on right now. Save some

00:36:49.160 money. Save your memories. LegacyBox.com slash Allie. So the NAR or the New Apostolic Reformation,

00:37:02.280 it's a loosely connected movement within charismatic Christianity. And so it's not

00:37:07.540 a specific denomination with NAR-affiliated churches. It is loosely connected. And in general,

00:37:15.080 they teach that God is restoring the biblical offices of apostles and prophets to lead the

00:37:20.340 church into the present day and into the present day revival. John MacArthur, he wrote a lot about

00:37:27.040 the dangers of the NAR when he was alive. Another incredible spiritual leader that we lost last year,

00:37:33.240 um he said this in short he said it is not new it is not apostolic and it is not a reformation

00:37:40.000 he warned about issues in the hyper charismatic movement including nar in a book that he wrote in

00:37:45.760 2023 called strange fire the danger of offending the holy spirit within counterfeit worship

00:37:51.740 but you know he had been talking about this for decades of his ministry he was also in la

00:37:58.100 that's where a lot of these charismatic leaders have gained popularity over the decades and really

00:38:04.100 since the 60s john macarthur has been showing the difference between a biblically based faith

00:38:10.760 and what the fruit of that looks like and then this extra biblical anti-biblical practice of

00:38:18.980 name it and claim it's supposed manifestations of the holy spirit which he would claim are not

00:38:25.280 manifestations of the Holy Spirit at all. So it's not a single denomination, but many of its leaders

00:38:31.060 emphasize the same things like modern day prophecy, miraculous healing, casting out demons,

00:38:36.720 the idea that apostles have unique authority to govern churches and direct believers. And again,

00:38:42.740 it's not the difference between cessationism and continuationism that we are focusing on today.

00:38:48.520 This is hyper charismatic. This is the belief that in order to have any sort of revival,

00:38:54.180 in order to be legitimate Christianity, we must have these things, and we must have modern-day

00:39:00.080 apostles and prophets that are basically self-appointed lead us into that revival. It

00:39:07.200 must look, according to this loosely associated group of people, like Catherine Crick. The movement

00:39:12.640 grew significantly during the 2000s, 2010s, fueled in part by the rising popularity and global

00:39:17.520 influence of NAR-associated churches like Bethel Church in Redding, California, the International

00:39:22.720 House of Prayer in Kansas City. There was a leader named C. Peter Wagner. He claimed his

00:39:29.040 own apostleship based on modern prophetic declarations, not biblical standards of actually

00:39:34.420 having seen Jesus, but just the idea that he had said some things were going to happen and that

00:39:40.980 they had happened. He pointed to a 2001 apostolic decree as evidence of his apostleship, claiming

00:39:47.220 that god had given him authority to declare to an end to mad cow disease in europe okay nearly a

00:39:54.200 decade later doctors and veterinarians were still diagnosing the disease in both humans and animals

00:39:58.740 across the continent okay so a prophet of the lord what they actually prophesy will come to pass

00:40:06.680 and that particular nar leader prophesied something that was not actually true wagner's

00:40:11.600 international coalition of apostles further institutionalized modern apostleship through

00:40:16.080 nominations, memberships, annual dues. And this really, according to Grace To You, that's John

00:40:21.940 MacArthur's ministry, reduced what scripture presents as a unique office established by Christ

00:40:27.420 into some kind of credential. Then you have people like Lance Wallnau and Bill Johnson.

00:40:34.780 They wrote a book called Invading Babylon, The Seven Mountain Mandate, explained how new

00:40:40.000 Christian apostles should advance the gospel in every sphere of society. You've got Che on.

00:40:44.980 He is a leading NAR quote-unquote apostle who teaches that the office of apostle continues today.

00:40:52.300 He encourages believers to embrace this apostolic anointing.

00:40:56.940 Bill Heyman is a pioneer of the movement.

00:40:59.700 He had a book called Eternal Church, The Eternal Church, a prophetic look at the church.

00:41:03.940 Her history, restoration, and destiny explains how the 21st century church is restoring the truths of early church

00:41:10.960 through not better understanding of the scriptures.

00:41:14.460 remember the Reformation that we had 500 plus years ago through Martin Luther. It wasn't a new

00:41:21.400 teaching. It wasn't something that was completely revolutionary. But Martin Luther said, hey, we

00:41:27.700 should read this infallible and errant word of God, and we should stick as closely to that as

00:41:32.320 we possibly can. This is outside of that. This is saying, no, no, the biblical canon is a limitation

00:41:38.420 on what we must be and do. So this is not the same as the Reformation of yore.

00:41:45.420 Crick's ministry reflects a lot of this movement's defining characteristics, including the belief in

00:41:50.800 modern day apostles, prophetic commissioning, so-called deliverance ministry. And so let's

00:41:57.360 look at some of these deliverances or what she claims to be deliverances. So this is my second

00:42:04.560 concern. My second concern is the theatrical nature of her exorcisms and faith healings and

00:42:12.080 the fact that there seems to be evidence pointing to them not actually being real. And if that is

00:42:19.360 the case, that is really evil and really, really bad. Even if there is any fake part of this at all,

00:42:25.600 that should be disqualifying. So deliverance is a major part of Crick's ministry. In fact,

00:42:30.900 her fame comes in part from extremely theatrical exorcisms that go viral online. And just to define

00:42:38.760 something for you, deliverance typically means like being delivered of an unclean spirit,

00:42:44.220 delivered of an ailment, delivered of a sin stronghold, delivered of demonic oppression.

00:42:52.780 And of course, we believe that Jesus is our deliverer, that he delivers us from death. He

00:42:58.000 delivers us from Satan. He delivers us from sin, but typically deliverance ministries are

00:43:05.500 predicated on the idea that it must be convulsion. It must be seizing. It must be this kind of

00:43:14.040 theatrical, I won't say that they would say performance, but that's what I would call it.

00:43:20.420 So here's an example of what I'm talking about, Satin.

00:43:23.400 I cancel every demonic covenant she made when she did witchcraft, and I declare every spirit attached, every last spirit of witchcraft must leave her on three in Jesus' name.

00:43:36.400 One, two, three.

00:43:40.740 No! No! She is mine!

00:43:45.700 I detach her from all of that, and I declare every last spirit gone now.

00:43:51.340 thank you jesus thank you jesus hallelujah hallelujah

00:43:58.160 okay um example two katherine crick is making a guy collapse in the name of deliverance not 11

00:44:08.240 i cancel that blood covenant now thank you jesus i detach him from that

00:44:15.560 blood covenant now. And I command every spirit attached on three. I command you must leave him

00:44:22.760 in Jesus name. One, two, three. Okay. There are lots and lots and lots of videos like this

00:44:36.540 on her own Instagram. There was a woman flailing around on the stage when Catherine Crick was

00:44:42.820 saying that she releases her from the spirit of witchcraft um there are a lot of examples like

00:44:49.000 this and you might be thinking understandably like what's wrong with this don't we see throughout

00:44:54.020 scripture in the new testament exorcisms the releasing of demonic power in a person and we

00:45:00.220 even see convulsions in scripture we see this kind of thing so i want to draw some distinctions

00:45:05.840 between what we see in so many of these videos remember back let's actually play it because it's

00:45:11.500 voiceover so i can keep talking while we play it but um one of the first thoughts that we played

00:45:16.680 and her blowing on the crowd okay i just want to remind you what that looked like when this is also

00:45:24.520 what she is claiming deliverance she's not declaring anything we don't know what these

00:45:28.980 people are dealing with these people look like they're worshiping look like they're christians

00:45:33.820 here they don't look like they're demonically possessed and she is making sure that they fall

00:45:37.380 that they fall, that they fall. Again, that one guy, he's not falling. He's got to stand there

00:45:41.520 to make sure he knows that he's supposed to fall. Okay. So this is what that looks like.

00:45:45.660 What are the red flags that I see that tell me that this doesn't look like from what she is

00:45:52.000 voluntarily showing online, the kinds of exorcisms that we do see in scripture. So one red flag is

00:46:00.580 that these exorcisms are typically in the videos that she posts long and drawn out when the Bible

00:46:06.740 indicates that they are immediate. So Mark 1, 25 through 26, and Jesus rebuked him saying,

00:46:13.060 be silent to the unclean spirit and come out of him. And the unclean spirit convulsing him and

00:46:17.960 crying out with a loud voice came out of him. So we do see a convulsion here. We do see a loud

00:46:23.660 voice here. It was immediate. No one, two, three, like you're talking to a toddler that you're just

00:46:28.840 hoping obeys you by the time you get to three, but an immediate authority and immediate obedience

00:46:33.900 of the unclean spirit, Matthew 17, 18. And Jesus rebuked the demon and it came out of him and the

00:46:39.960 boy was healed instantly. Now, what's interesting about this is not only do we see in the videos

00:46:46.500 that she posts that people are flailing constantly, even after she has declared the

00:46:51.780 demon to come out of them. And so that tells me that they are still being, if this was genuine,

00:46:58.640 okay, well, the deliverance didn't work because they're still flailing around. They are still

00:47:02.620 acting like they're possessed by something. They're still of an unsound mind. And so even

00:47:08.640 if you are to say that these exorcisms or that these people are really possessed by demons,

00:47:13.980 even if you are to say demonic exorcisms or what we are supposed to practice today,

00:47:18.780 what's going on with these people who are not healed instantly? That is not what we see indicated

00:47:24.740 in scripture, but also we see the same people being delivered over and over again in her videos.

00:47:33.380 She has actually been exposed for, um, healing the same people repeatedly. There is an outlet

00:47:40.520 that I cannot across the board always recommend because of some of their reporting, but they do

00:47:46.880 a good job of compiling different examples of people's like problematic theology and really

00:47:55.520 digging into the research and giving evidence for the claims that people are making about people.

00:48:00.020 And they compiled these different examples of the same people in different events being exercised

00:48:10.320 by Catherine Crick. And so we'll just go through this. So here's the first example. Catherine

00:48:15.720 Crick uses this girl with the distinctive tattoo right there, the blonde lady, um, being exercised

00:48:21.860 in two different, two different occasions. Okay. We've got example one. She's apparently being

00:48:27.560 exercised right now. Okay. And then we've also got example two. This is the same lady. This is

00:48:34.280 voiceover three. And you can tell she's the same lady because she has a very distinctive tattoo

00:48:38.680 on her eye. Now, maybe you're thinking, okay, well, she was possessed by two different demons

00:48:44.660 and she's being exorcised two different times by Catherine Crick, maybe, or maybe she is just

00:48:50.080 someone that is reliably very good at acting like she has a demon and that that demon is leaving

00:48:55.540 her. And so she has been used a couple of times. And then you have girl number two. There's another

00:49:00.940 woman with distinctive tattoos that has also been used on Crick's videos multiple times and even in

00:49:06.560 other exorcist videos. Okay. So here's example number one. You've got this video of a woman

00:49:14.300 with a shoulder tattoo. So here she is in one video. In one instance, she's got a distinctive

00:49:21.120 shoulder tattoo. Here's an example of the same person in another video with the same tattoo.

00:49:27.980 You can tell it's the same person. She's also been used in videos by exorcist Bob Larson.

00:49:33.380 And then you see that Crick and Larson use the same person, what some people might call

00:49:39.360 a crisis actor right here. Um, she was also exposed. Crick was also exposed for exercising

00:49:47.380 the same two women two nights in a row at some of her events in Canada. Okay. I guess a very,

00:49:55.960 we're putting up the pictures. There's a couple of videos. You can see that they're the same

00:50:00.700 person. You can look at the pictures and decide for yourself. I guess you could say

00:50:05.260 they were exorcised of a demon, and then the next night they were already possessed again,

00:50:12.180 re-exorcised. We don't see examples of that kind of thing happening in scripture,

00:50:17.040 but if you were to be very charitable, you could say that, or you could say that some people are

00:50:22.240 tapped to continue to come back to these events to make it seem extremely sensational.

00:50:28.060 A former church member posted his experience to YouTube describing a similar phenomenon,

00:50:32.920 The same women getting delivered over and over again at meetings and people being told they were healed when they didn't think they had SOT-12.

00:50:42.160 Just at the park, I would notice stuff like these six meetings.

00:50:46.100 These same two girls kept screaming out during every deliverance prayer time, which that's a huge part of her format.

00:50:55.460 I'm just noticing these same two girls always screaming out during deliverance.

00:50:58.680 and it's like, well, why aren't they getting delivered? Or why are they getting delivered

00:51:02.320 every single week? Like, did the demons not listen? Is the authority of Christ not here?

00:51:07.020 What's happening? So, and then I would notice that she would pray for people with physical ailments

00:51:13.760 and they wouldn't get healed. And then she would say, go, it's going to happen as you go. And

00:51:20.700 there's a very seductive, deceptive way of making people accept what I believe

00:51:27.800 are false signs and wonders. I don't even have any commentary to add to that because he did such

00:51:36.240 a good job of pointing out the problems with that. His question of, is the authority of Christ

00:51:41.540 not really here, is a really good one. Because if you recall in Acts, and we see the apostles

00:51:48.040 practice demonic actual demonic deliverance casting demons out of people healing people

00:51:55.100 we read that the people were healed that the demons were cast out that these things were

00:52:00.800 actually being accomplished and we don't read hey sometimes they had it sometimes they didn't

00:52:08.300 and sometimes god decided to work through them and accomplish these things and sometimes they

00:52:13.080 didn't. And we don't see any indication that they had to convince people that they were healed or

00:52:19.300 they had to tell people, Hey, you're going to feel it. It's kind of like when you go to the doctor's

00:52:23.120 office, it's like, Oh, you can't feel the numbing right now. Don't worry. It's going to kick in.

00:52:27.280 We're just going to start drilling on your tooth like that. It's not like that with the power of

00:52:32.100 God. I would actually think, I would actually say that my position, those who believe that

00:52:38.040 cessationists like limit God, and we don't believe in the power of God, that my view of the power of

00:52:43.920 God is actually much higher than a lot of the people who believe in the validity of the apostleship

00:52:49.020 of people like Catherine Crick. Because my belief is that God's power is so authoritative, that it

00:52:55.460 is so supreme, that it is so successful, that it is actually impossible for it to fail. And so if

00:53:02.600 someone was truly an apostle, which again, I believe only existed in the apostolic age, and

00:53:07.580 Jesus promised you're going to cast out demons in my name, they did it, that that was actually

00:53:12.140 going to be accomplished. I don't believe it's this wishy-washy thing that apparently we are

00:53:16.900 seeing through these so-called ministries today. So let's recall what it actually looked like when

00:53:21.960 people were being delivered of demons in scripture. In Mark 1, in the synagogue at Capernaum,

00:53:28.720 we read, and immediately there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit, and he

00:53:32.620 cried out, what have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who

00:53:38.220 you are, the Holy One of God. But Jesus rebuked him, saying, be silent and come out of him.

00:53:43.180 And the unclean spirit, convulsing him and crying out with a loud voice, came out of him. Again,

00:53:47.640 immediately. In Mark 5, Jesus rids a man of unclean spirits. The man was living among tombs

00:53:53.040 with what seemed like superhuman strength, breaking the chains that bound him. Jesus asks

00:53:58.000 the spirits their name, and they reply, Legion, for we are many. The demons are cast out into the

00:54:03.160 pigs who then run off the cliff. So we see a few things here that demons make the entities that

00:54:08.480 they possess do illogical things, do crazy things, often violent things against themselves or other

00:54:13.960 people. Here's how the healed man is then described in verse 15, sitting there clothed and in his

00:54:20.860 right mind. And they, everyone who was watching was afraid. And so that's what happens when a

00:54:26.680 demon is cast out. It is immediate. Sometimes I guess there's convulsing. Sometimes there isn't.

00:54:32.980 The person seems insane and then is of their right mind. It's an immediate transformation.

00:54:40.140 Acts 16. As we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl who had a spirit of

00:54:44.840 divination and brought her owners much gained by fortune telling. She followed Paul and us crying

00:54:49.560 out, these men are servants of the most high God who proclaim to you the way of salvation. So it's

00:54:54.740 so interesting. These demons know truth. These demons regularly recite what is actually true.

00:55:01.320 And she kept doing this for many days, scripture says. And then Paul, having become greatly annoyed,

00:55:06.240 turned and said to the spirit, I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.

00:55:10.380 And it came out that very hour, immediate and complete. And as far as we know, without fanfare.

00:55:17.360 Also, from what we see, these people are not believers. These people are non-Christians.

00:55:22.580 they are being possessed by a demon. And then when they are healed again, they are of the right

00:55:28.960 mind. Now, is that the pattern that we are seeing? It seems to me that a lot of the people, like the

00:55:33.820 people who are coming up to her in her like book signing meetings, these people apparently are

00:55:39.960 Christians, even people who attend her church, people who call themselves believers. But even

00:55:45.000 just being in her presence causes seizures and convulsions. And we're calling that deliverance.

00:55:50.900 you don't think that we see a biblical precedence of that the deliverance ministry of crick is based

00:55:57.580 on a misreading of scripture the binding and loosing that faith healers like her say that

00:56:02.200 they're doing is based on matthew 16 18 through 19 when jesus says i tell you you are peter and

00:56:09.580 on this rock i will build my church in the gates of hell shall not prevail against it i give you

00:56:12.760 the keys of the kingdom of heaven and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and

00:56:16.360 whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. In reality, these keys are not giving

00:56:23.760 Christians the authority to bind or loose anything. That's what Crick believes. She said

00:56:27.980 that before in a sermon, but apply specifically to the churches. So as a Protestant, we say that

00:56:35.120 that is the universal body of believers. And I believe biblically, that's what it is. The

00:56:38.820 universal body of believers, not the institution. So specifically to the church's authority to open

00:56:44.840 or loose the kingdom by preaching the gospel

00:56:47.100 and close or bind the kingdom based on church discipline.

00:56:50.580 That's according to Ligonier,

00:56:51.660 the late R.C. Sproul's ministry.

00:56:53.780 Bodhi Bauckham points out how ridiculous it is

00:56:55.520 to say that you can bind the devil in that way.

00:56:58.580 So I just want to ask people,

00:57:01.340 you know, when they're binding the devil, right?

00:57:03.440 Like Satan is a finite being.

00:57:05.420 So first of all, if you're powerful enough

00:57:07.480 to bind the devil, wow.

00:57:10.260 but secondly if you're binding him this week do you call all the other churches and tell them we

00:57:18.140 got him because if they bound him in that church that night everybody else's sound system should

00:57:33.900 have been perfect everywhere else in the world right and then here's the deal if you can bind

00:57:40.760 him why just for the service yeah this kind of goes back to what i was saying earlier is that

00:57:51.260 those in this kind of like nar movement claim to believe in the fullness of the power of god but

00:57:57.620 the power of god according to their interpretation is very capricious like it's very unreliable it's

00:58:03.160 very fragmented, that you have the power to bind Satan, but he's still at work in all of these

00:58:08.160 other parts of the world. But you have bound what, like a fraction of him or the particular work that

00:58:14.420 you believe that he is doing in that present moment. And so he's trying to make the point

00:58:20.120 there that that's not what that verse actually means, that it's actually something much bigger

00:58:26.440 and more powerful than that. These verses in Matthew have to do with formal decisions about

00:58:33.300 inclusion in the church based on faith and conduct, the persistence of sin and how church

00:58:38.460 deals with that, not these theatrical performances of supposed deliverance. And another big issue

00:58:44.380 that I have is the idea of sowing the seed for deliverance in order to garner financial gain.

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00:59:42.820 beyond teaching that deliverance and freedom from spiritual oppression are accessed through

00:59:53.860 prophetic keys to bind and loose crick also encourages followers to quote so seeds of faith

00:59:59.520 you hear this very often you've heard this from paula white too um that is to give money

01:00:05.380 to her ministry with the expectation that doing so will release god's blessing so it's called

01:00:12.180 seed faith teaching. It's the belief that financial giving functions as a seed that God

01:00:17.100 will repay with blessings, often in the form of financial prosperity, healing, or some kind of

01:00:21.360 breakthrough. It's rooted in this biblical principle that people reap what they sow.

01:00:26.020 That is biblical, but it applies that principle to monetary giving in a way that promises material

01:00:32.380 rewards and financial benefits or financially benefits the ministries promoting it. Seed

01:00:40.180 faith teaching is part of the broader prosperity gospel, which teaches that God intends believers

01:00:44.280 to experience health and material wealth in this life. And actually that is a guarantee of having

01:00:50.820 the right kind of faith and sufficient faith in God, even though that is the opposite of what

01:00:55.400 Jesus teaches over and over again, the opposite of the experience of the disciples and the, uh,

01:01:01.600 and the apostles. Uh, but that is what the health and wealth preachers believe. And that's what they

01:01:09.760 assert that that is a guarantee that we are entitled to as Christians. People like Joel

01:01:13.880 Osteen, T.D. Jakes, Joyce Meyer, they all push that kind of message. And Crick teaches that while

01:01:19.420 we can pray for deliverance, it may not come unless that financial seed is sown, unless you

01:01:25.220 are donating to our ministry. So if you'd like to sow, you can go to 5fchurch.org slash give.

01:01:31.860 Also, if you were delivered today, I encourage you to sow a special seed to seal this deliverance

01:01:37.460 as it says in Psalms, that every covenant, there is a sacrifice. And when every covenant's made,

01:01:43.600 so there's a new covenant of freedom that God's made with you today. So sow this seed.

01:01:49.200 Crick even tells a mother whose child is supposedly writhing in the control of a demon

01:01:53.820 that a 10% tithe isn't enough. She has to give more money for her son to be delivered. Thought 18.

01:02:00.020 God is going to free him completely. There are different keys to receive complete freedom.

01:02:06.000 And what happens is the more that we entangle ourselves with with witchcraft and psychics and things like that

01:02:12.100 It's like a more complex deliverance

01:02:14.980 So sometimes it's not just about the commanding the demons, but there's other keys that need to be unlocked

01:02:20.200 And one of them is to sow seeds

01:02:25.100 Everything that comes through my hands for the last two years 10% God's saying more

01:02:31.120 Because 10% is with what's what's God?

01:02:36.000 so now we need to sow specifically for his deliverance the anointing is working right now

01:02:41.980 you need to be open to god to renounce more things and even when god puts on your heart to

01:02:45.780 even sow a seed right now online or something you know like right now this is what god wants

01:02:50.680 you to do be open to renounce and he's going to be free completely i declare in jesus name

01:02:55.380 okay you can see she kind of picks her head up and she's like okay i'm moving on um you heard

01:03:02.240 that, that she needs to give more than 10% of her tithe in order for her son to be healed.

01:03:06.320 And some deliverance is more complicated than the others. Chapter and verse. Chapter and verse,

01:03:11.660 where do you see that? It actually doesn't seem complicated at all. Again, complicating and

01:03:17.460 disempowering the power of God. Like his authority isn't enough. He needs you. He's like a slot

01:03:24.620 machine or he's like, you know, one of those claw machines that you have to put in enough money

01:03:30.420 over and over again to hopefully get the claw of, you know, to grab onto deliverance or healing.

01:03:36.840 And you got to do it the right way at the right time in order to make God satisfied. Like that

01:03:42.500 formula is not in scripture. It's interesting that she says all of this. Sow the seed to seal

01:03:48.520 your deliverance. Sow more of a seed to get healing. And then it says this on her website.

01:03:57.140 I just found this on the homepage of her church's website.

01:04:00.260 It says, beware of scammers.

01:04:02.880 Apostle Catherine will never DM anyone, send emails, or leave a comment asking for money

01:04:06.420 or telling you that God says you have to sow a seed, that last part, or telling you that

01:04:11.020 God said you have to sow a seed, okay?

01:04:13.680 The scammers will ask you to sow into an orphanage for your deliverance, healing, or to buy anointing

01:04:18.200 oil.

01:04:18.520 Now, the reason people are being scammed by that is because it sounds like something she

01:04:21.220 would say.

01:04:22.080 And the reason why it sounds like something she would say, it's because she said things

01:04:25.020 like that before.

01:04:25.720 sow a seed to secure your deliverance we have we have a little bit of an inside joke in in our house

01:04:33.320 between my husband and me one time we were talking about one of our children i don't know we're

01:04:39.060 talking about the plans for the day she was probably four and she picked up we didn't know

01:04:43.980 she was listening she picked up on the fact that we were talking about her and she goes is her name

01:04:47.460 me is her name me and so now whenever we see someone that seems like they're talking about

01:04:52.140 themselves as they're describing something i'm like is her name me and that's what maybe katherine

01:04:57.660 kirk needs to ask herself when she reads this on the home page of her own website that describes

01:05:03.520 scammers talking about sowing a seed to seal the deliverance is her name me it is um like

01:05:11.880 kirk's teachings on binding and loosing the belief in seed sowing for deliverance is based on

01:05:17.160 a biblical misinterpretation. Crick uses the man healed from leprosy in Luke 5 as a proof text for

01:05:23.360 this doctrine. And a proof text is like, okay, I've already decided that this thing is true.

01:05:27.540 I'm going to try to go into the text and find something that can support my belief.

01:05:32.840 She says in Luke 5, 14, Jesus ordered the man with leprosy to tell no one that he was healed,

01:05:38.980 but he says, go and show yourself to the priest and make an offering for purification,

01:05:43.440 just as Moses commanded as a testimony to them that this is the work of the Messiah. So Jesus

01:05:48.100 commanded him to sow an offering for his healing. That was his key. Amen. But that's actually not

01:05:54.400 what the passage says. So that's what she says the passage says. That's not what the passage says.

01:05:59.100 Luke notes that the leprosy left the man immediately, not after he sowed a seed. So you

01:06:04.900 actually read in Luke 5, 11 through 14. While Jesus was in one of the cities, there came a man

01:06:10.780 full of leprosy. And when he saw Jesus, he fell on his face and begged him, Lord, if you will,

01:06:15.360 you can make me clean. And Jesus stretched out his hand and touched him saying, I will be clean.

01:06:19.960 And immediately the leprosy left him and he charged him to tell no one, but go and show

01:06:25.060 yourself to the priest and make an offering for your cleansing as Moses commanded for a proof to

01:06:30.460 them. Okay. So I've said this before, these people who are teaching false things, they are

01:06:38.000 betting that you don't read your own Bible. They are betting upon your ignorance. They are using

01:06:44.360 their supposed apostolic authority to make you ignorant of what the word of God says so that you

01:06:50.620 continue to go to them as your only source of truth and healing. Okay. She said that Luke five

01:06:56.600 said something. Luke five doesn't say that. And she used and misinterpreted the Bible,

01:07:02.780 misapplied the Bible, completely misspoke the Bible in order to get donations, in order to

01:07:11.560 get monetary gain. That is evil. I find that just as evil as Gavin Newsom a few years ago,

01:07:18.620 you using the verse, love your neighbor as yourself to advertise for paid for abortions

01:07:24.320 in the state of California for those who live in red states where abortion had been strongly

01:07:30.120 prohibited. I see this as just as evil. Very, very careful. You have to be so careful because

01:07:37.500 teachers are held to a very high standard. The requirement to make an offering

01:07:44.720 to the priest was not a condition to be healed. It was so that he could be readmitted into society.

01:07:53.080 As R.C. Sproul notes, he wasn't just asking for healing. He was asking to be restored because a

01:07:58.940 leper was seen as unclean. And so healing of the leper, a sermon from R.C. Sproul, he says,

01:08:04.440 the leper was asking for more than to be healed. He was asking to be healed of a disease that made

01:08:08.060 him an outcast from the covenant community of Israel. Lepers had to live outside the camp,

01:08:12.980 outside the community, outside the church, as it were, and outside of the town. Leviticus 14

01:08:18.220 contains lengthy instructions on the offering to be made after one is cleansed of leprosy,

01:08:22.380 involving an eight day cleansing, uh, uh, cleansing ritual. So it was only after completing

01:08:29.840 this ritual that the leper could be considered clean and reenter society. That is why Jesus

01:08:34.100 encourages him to go to the priest. It was never a condition for his healing, as we obviously see

01:08:38.460 in that, in that passage. So not only is the sowing seeds doctrine based on a misreading

01:08:44.280 of scripture, I would say a willful misapplication and misinterpretation of scripture. It also

01:08:50.240 contradicts Jesus's commandments elsewhere. When Jesus sends out his disciples to preach the gospel,

01:08:55.100 to heal the sick and deliver people from demons, he specifies that they are not to charge people

01:08:59.800 money. Whoa. Matthew 10, seven through eight. And proclaim as you go saying the kingdom of heaven

01:09:05.680 is at hand, heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons you received without pain,

01:09:12.960 give without pay. Seems abundantly clear. We remember that Paul was a tent maker,

01:09:20.160 that he was happy to receive gifts and help and resources from the churches, but he also didn't

01:09:26.320 want to burden them. He didn't feel that he had to be entitled to these things, that he was willing

01:09:33.700 to make his own living. He didn't want anything to be a hindrance to the giving of the gospel,

01:09:41.540 to the preaching of the gospel.

01:09:44.800 There's also the issue of the cult-like adoration

01:09:47.900 that Catherine Crick has received

01:09:50.340 that I find to be very troubling.

01:09:51.980 Again, no biblical precedent for it.

01:09:53.940 It should give all of us pause.

01:09:55.420 We'll get to that just a second.

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01:10:58.020 Whew, there is so much.

01:11:00.300 We probably could have done a five-part series and maybe we'll continue on this,

01:11:03.660 but it was just so important for me that you could get all of this information in one place

01:11:07.660 because I'm concerned about how this person is affecting people in my audience, how she is

01:11:13.800 affecting people, um, how she is affecting your friends, how she is affecting your family members

01:11:20.300 who have bought into the idea that this is what Christianity must look like. And this is what

01:11:25.120 healing must look like. Crick's followers often display this kind of cult-like level of personal

01:11:31.240 devotion many refer to her simply as mama she had a birthday celebration that was posted on

01:11:37.660 social media congregants from her church formed a line to honor her individually showering her

01:11:42.380 with praise bowing before her placing gifts at her feet okay kind of like the wise men to jesus

01:11:49.220 when he was born strange thought 20 i love you so much mama happy early birthday it is such an honor

01:11:56.900 to serve you. I honor you as your spiritual daughter. I love you, and you're my favorite.

01:12:03.920 You're my favorite person.

01:12:11.060 Happy birthday, Mama. I love you so much. I cherish this ministry so much.

01:12:18.280 I love you so much. Thank you for laying down your life that we may live and be equipped and

01:12:23.380 transformed. So I honor you. I love you so much. Happy birthday. God bless you. I love you. Happy

01:12:34.800 birthday. God bless you. It's an honor to serve your Apostle Catherine and I love you so much.

01:12:41.640 Happy birthday. Okay, so that goes on and on. You've got people crying. I mean, this is

01:12:53.100 veneration. Okay. This is so far, so far outside of what is appropriate for Christianity. Like

01:13:03.440 you even see Paul talking about this. Like he says, don't worry about who you're following.

01:13:08.920 You're not supposed to brag about that. First Corinthians three, five, what then is Apollos?

01:13:13.400 What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed. Actually, if we back up in verse four,

01:13:17.740 for when one says, I follow Paul and another, I follow Apollos, are you not being merely human?

01:13:23.900 He's talking about acting like a spiritual child and still acting as if they are of the flesh,

01:13:30.920 as if they are not Christians. That's what it says in verses one through three. So then he's

01:13:36.220 going on here and saying these divisions about who follows who and bragging about that. It's not

01:13:40.220 of the Lord. He says in verse five, what then is Apollos? What is Paul service through whom you

01:13:44.460 believed as the Lord assigned to each. I planted Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. So

01:13:49.600 neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth.

01:13:55.220 He who plants and he who waters are one and each will receive his wages according to his labor.

01:14:00.100 For we are God's fellow workers. You are God's field, God's building. And then he goes on to

01:14:05.520 give glory to God. Yeah, we are a part of this. God doesn't need us. We don't need our names

01:14:11.980 known. That is the opposite of what we are seeing here. And again, this is all done in the name of

01:14:17.900 her being an apostle. This is all justified by her so-called apostolic authority. The New Testament

01:14:23.660 warns over and over again about false teachers and what they look like. I think about 2 Timothy

01:14:30.820 3. You know, we talk about this passage a lot. We talk about it a lot when it comes to those

01:14:35.800 who are so-called progressive teachers

01:14:39.980 that teach the opposite of what Christ taught,

01:14:43.060 but it also applies to all manner of false teacher.

01:14:47.400 And I want to start in verse five,

01:14:48.980 but read the whole passage,

01:14:50.420 having the appearance of godliness,

01:14:51.960 but denying its power over and over again.

01:14:54.060 We actually see people deny the power of God,

01:14:56.400 that God can't work because you haven't done this.

01:14:58.480 You haven't donated enough.

01:14:59.520 You haven't prayed enough.

01:15:00.500 Oh yeah, I cast out that demon.

01:15:01.820 It's still there.

01:15:02.380 Came back the next night.

01:15:03.480 You're still convulsing,

01:15:04.340 even though I've already cast out that demon, denying the power of God, avoid such people.

01:15:08.320 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led

01:15:12.640 astray by various passions, always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of truth.

01:15:20.640 He goes on to say their folly will be plain to all. I do believe that's what we're seeing here.

01:15:27.160 Matthew 24, 24 for false Christ and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders

01:15:32.680 so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 1 John 4, 1, Beloved, do not believe every spirit,

01:15:40.640 for test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into

01:15:45.800 the world. Galatians 6 tells us what the fruit of the Holy Spirit is. Love, joy, peace, peace,

01:15:53.560 patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and what? Self-control. Self-control.

01:16:00.900 That is the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Christians are never commanded to chase miracles or to

01:16:11.300 submit themselves to self-appointed apostles. We are certainly not called to declare ourselves

01:16:17.300 apostles, to use our authority, to gain fame, to gain influence, to gain power. That is not

01:16:23.960 the spirit of revival. That is not the evidence of a reawakening. We are actually commanded to

01:16:29.180 be like the Bereans, to look at every practice, to every doctrine that is being taught, every

01:16:33.840 sermon, every podcast episode, weigh it against the word of God and say, is this true? God has

01:16:39.600 been so gracious to give us clarity, to give us the authority through his word to tell us what is

01:16:43.940 good, right, and true. We examine every teaching against the word of God. We hold fast to the faith

01:16:49.020 that was delivered to the actual apostles. Praise God for that. Praise God for that. So

01:16:54.960 I want it to be completely unequivocal. I think that this is a false ministry. I think it's a

01:16:59.760 dangerous ministry. I don't think it's something that you need to follow. And I want you to share

01:17:05.520 this episode with the friends that you have. Maybe they're on the fence. Maybe they're confused. Maybe

01:17:09.920 they've been duped by this. Um, and I also want to pray for Catherine Crick, uh, because I think

01:17:16.900 that this is a dangerous place to be spiritually. I do. Um, all right, that's all we've got time for

01:17:22.260 today. We will be back here on Friday.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - July 22, 2026

Ep 1374 ｜ Kathryn Krick： Apostle or Actress？ The Truth About Her Viral Exorcisms

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