Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1381 ｜ He Lived as a 'Trans Christian' for 30 Years Before He Heard This ｜ William Allen

00:00:00.000 William Allen lived as a woman for 30 years and all that time he believed that he was

00:00:07.640 a Christian, but something changed when he heard the truth, not about gender, not about

00:00:13.600 identity, but about his sin and his need for a savior and what repentance actually looks

00:00:21.660 like.

00:00:22.040 This is the power of the biblical gospel.

00:00:24.680 This is the power of even offensive truth to change the lives of people who have been

00:00:30.940 entrenched in sin for decades.

00:00:33.400 His story is inspiring as we remember that God's eternal plan of redemption is always

00:00:38.940 going off without a hitch.

00:00:50.200 Well, Alan, thanks so much for taking the time to join us.

00:00:53.980 Before we get into the details of your background, can you just give us a quick overview of who you are in the testimony that you share?

00:01:02.300 Thanks for having me, Hallie Beth. I appreciate it.

00:01:05.960 In October of 2023, I completed my detransition after having lived as a woman for 30 years.

00:01:15.780 I don't know what led me into that. It's hard to imagine now, but it was something I dealt with all my life.

00:01:22.100 And I was perfectly content living out the rest of my life as a woman, pretending to be a woman.

00:01:29.100 I was successful, had a successful career, but God.

00:01:36.960 And I heard the true biblical gospel, and everything changed after that.

00:01:44.080 Wow.

00:01:44.960 Okay, let's back up to the beginning of your life.

00:01:47.960 You said that this was something that you struggled with.

00:01:50.560 even as a young child, you had these feelings that maybe you were in the wrong body. Can you

00:01:55.720 talk about that? Well, you know, that's something a lot of folks say today. I was born in the wrong

00:02:02.780 body, or I feel like I'm born in the wrong body. I never felt that. I just always wanted to be a

00:02:11.960 girl. I knew I was a boy, but from a very early age, and I'm talking four, five years old,

00:02:18.600 um i just had this this compulsion this desire and i don't know where it came from

00:02:25.960 uh but i do remember crying myself to sleep many a night praying that god would change me in the

00:02:31.600 middle of the night into a girl and you know in in in my book i talk a lot about childhood and

00:02:39.340 because i want to get a point across about how children think and and because because children

00:02:45.000 are not bright yet. Their brains are still developing. But these are the things that

00:02:50.300 I thought about. And I even wondered, you know, as I was praying to God, what if I do

00:02:56.380 wake up a girl? How am I going to explain that to my parents? But again, that was my

00:03:03.060 childlike mind. I actually believe that could happen. But it was a thing that stuck with

00:03:09.820 me and if you had known me uh back then i was just a typical boy growing up in the midwest in the

00:03:15.660 1960s and we were out riding our bikes all day and building forts and climbing trees and blowing

00:03:23.300 stuff up and getting in all sorts of trouble and i had the occasional visits to the er and

00:03:29.540 you just never would have known but at night i had this other this other life this other i would get

00:03:39.580 into my head. And as a lot of children do, they play dress up, but I would dress up in my mother's

00:03:45.200 clothes, not my father's. And that's what I had to deal with as a child. And of course, now this

00:03:51.740 is the 1960s. I couldn't tell anybody. Deep down, I knew that something was wrong. I shouldn't be

00:04:00.520 feeling this way, but I knew I shouldn't tell anybody either. Couldn't tell my parents. I didn't

00:04:05.460 have any siblings. So it was just me. So I just had to deal with it as a child. And, and back then

00:04:11.000 nobody knew anything about it anyway. So, you know, I grew up and getting through high school

00:04:17.700 was, was problematic. Uh, uh, it was hard to focus on schoolwork. I did date. Um, I was attracted to

00:04:26.300 girls. I had a steady girlfriend for two years and another one for one year and I dated in college

00:04:31.700 as well uh but yeah it was it was this this this yearning for discovery to figure out why was i

00:04:40.180 this way i mean i didn't ask for it and and the other thing to note is that i was raised in the

00:04:48.900 church all my life i thought i was a christian and uh i i'd go to sunday school every morning with

00:04:58.260 parents and every Sunday morning and go to the service. And my parents were in the choir. So

00:05:04.640 my dad was always keeping an eye on me from the choir loft, make sure I didn't get in trouble.

00:05:09.820 But I grew up learning the Bible stories, memorizing verses. And even throughout high

00:05:16.420 school and college and early adulthood, I kept going to church. I was a part of church. I gave

00:05:22.100 to church. I was active. I was in the choir. And that one church I attended, I was elected the

00:05:28.200 treasurer on the council. And at the time, I professed to being a Christian. I didn't have

00:05:37.700 a problem with that. I thought I was. And even after I transitioned, I kept on claiming to be

00:05:45.400 a Christian. But looking back, I had no idea what it meant to be a Christian or how one even becomes

00:05:54.660 a Christian. I was absolutely a false convert. Right. And you said when you were growing up,

00:06:03.480 five, six years old at night, you would dress up in your mom's clothes. And I assume this kind

00:06:10.280 behavior persisted for a while, maybe manifested itself in different ways. Was there any time at

00:06:16.280 any point in your upbringing where someone caught you or you felt like, okay, they're on to me,

00:06:22.520 they know something's going on? Or did you manage to keep this totally and completely secret until

00:06:28.180 adulthood? Totally and completely secret. And did you feel a level of torment? I mean,

00:06:36.240 you describe having a basically normal life of playing with friends, of dating, of going to

00:06:41.940 church. Did you feel that you were in a dark place, or were you kind of effectively able

00:06:46.780 to compartmentalize that fantasy portion of your mental life? I didn't really feel like I was in a

00:06:54.900 dark place. Yeah, I was able to compartmentalize it. My father taught me how to play baseball

00:07:02.700 and football, and he exposed me to science and chemistry and music and all sorts of things.

00:07:12.580 And I never could understand. I kept looking for a cause. And I've talked to a lot of other

00:07:20.480 transgenders, and they can usually point to some sort of an abuse or trauma or something early in

00:07:26.080 life. And I just, I got nothing. I don't know where this came from. But I was always able to 1.00

00:07:32.280 compartmentalize it. There was Will time. And then there was the girl. And I didn't even have

00:07:40.800 a name back then. I didn't think of a girl name. But there was that special time at night. And

00:07:47.080 it was separate. I was in the Boy Scouts. I went on camp outs. And yeah, like I said, nobody knew.

00:07:53.980 But when I was by myself, yeah, everything changed.

00:07:59.680 And you said that it was sometime in early adulthood that you decided, I'm going to live

00:08:07.220 publicly as a woman.

00:08:09.020 It's hard for me to even understand what that could have looked like, both internally and

00:08:14.120 externally at a time when there was probably no word for it.

00:08:18.600 I'm not even sure if the word transgender had really emerged in the lexicon at all.

00:08:24.220 So you didn't have much context for what this could look like when you started transitioning.

00:08:29.400 But talk about that.

00:08:30.600 What was that like and how did you come to that decision?

00:08:34.420 Yeah, you say, you can't imagine what it was like for me.

00:08:38.960 I had thought I was the only person in the world that felt this way for so many years.

00:08:44.540 and even college I took some some psychology classes too to see if I could figure it out and

00:08:49.480 there just there just wasn't anything and uh it wasn't until I was out of school I was working at

00:08:55.540 my first job as an engineer out in the Pacific Northwest and I found a a notice on a telephone

00:09:03.640 pole somewhere it said something about a support group meeting for transvestites and transsexuals

00:09:11.160 So you're right. Transgender was not in the lexicon yet. Back in the day, it was transvestites, transsexuals. And that was it. And I thought, what in the world is this? And I called the number and they said they have a meeting, a regular meeting every Friday. And they gave me the address. And so I went. I had to check this out. And there were other people there like me.

00:09:34.540 it was it was honestly it was kind of shocking because there were a lot of men there dressed up

00:09:40.820 as women and they looked like men dressed up as women and it was it was a shock you know because

00:09:48.880 then i thought oh my goodness do i do i look like that and uh but there were two or three people

00:09:55.240 there were a couple of women there and i think who were either significant others or you know

00:09:59.420 supporters. But there were a couple of women there I got to talking to. And it turns out they

00:10:06.840 were also men. They were in various stages of actually transitioning. One had already completed

00:10:11.980 it, surgery and everything, and the other was still in transition. But they fooled me and the

00:10:19.180 voice and everything. And that was the first time I realized this could be a thing. And

00:10:28.300 And boy, that really got the mind going, you know, you just start thinking about all sorts

00:10:34.200 of possibilities.

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00:11:42.380 I started attending regularly, and then there came a time when I went for the first time

00:11:48.160 dressed as a female on foam they called it and uh i had put a lot of effort into it and

00:11:55.440 i showed up and i got a lot of compliments uh you might say i was affirmed okay we're going to talk

00:12:05.520 about that some more later uh but yeah it it uh that was that was a wonderful feeling yeah the

00:12:12.380 the compliments just emboldened me, you know, it encouraged me. So life was going on. I'd be at

00:12:19.980 work during the day. And then we had that weekly meeting and occasionally they would have an event

00:12:26.100 of some sort. Well, then one day I got on an airplane to head back to Ohio for a family

00:12:31.100 reunion one summer. And I sat next to a girl. And by the end of the flight, I knew that was

00:12:38.080 a girl I was going to marry. And as it turned out, I found out later that she had told her family

00:12:45.440 that she had just met the guy she was going to marry. And sure enough, we both returned. I was

00:12:49.600 living outside of Portland at the time. She was living outside of Seattle. And we got together

00:12:55.960 when I got back, when we both got back. And we started dating, long distance dating. And the

00:13:03.860 long distance part of it got old pretty quick. So I just eventually up and quit my job, moved up to

00:13:08.740 Seattle, found another engineering job. And within a year, we were married. And she was at the next

00:13:15.340 year's reunion as my wife. And I gotta tell you, it's, you know, this thing, this uninvited

00:13:22.600 dilemma, it just had dogged me all my life. You know, it made work difficult, made school

00:13:27.660 difficult it was just always on my mind and uh after we met you know i had prayed god you know

00:13:37.340 just take this off me well all all these compulsions i'd had my whole life i was in my

00:13:44.380 my mid-20s at the time all these compulsions they just went away they're gone i i was overjoyed

00:13:53.400 I had a significant wardrobe, you know, of women's clothes built up and all the accoutrement that goes with it.

00:14:02.860 I just, and I got rid of it. 0.99

00:14:04.460 I threw it all out.

00:14:05.620 That's how confident I was and how grateful.

00:14:08.860 We got married and she was a godly woman.

00:14:13.320 She was Christian.

00:14:14.720 She wanted to be a homemaker. 1.00

00:14:16.320 She wanted to raise children. 0.92

00:14:18.220 She chose me to be the father of her children.

00:14:20.780 and the first two years of the marriage were fantastic

00:14:25.120 but then in the third year this old nemesis it just it came back and it came back with a vengeance

00:14:34.720 I couldn't hide it it was taken over and these compulsions I just I wish there was a way to

00:14:44.020 explain it. You know, we, we talk about trans people today and we can be pretty flippant about 1.00

00:14:50.640 it. And basically in our minds, we just think, well, just don't do that. You know, it's a lie 0.99

00:14:57.440 and you should come around and, but it's just not that way. This thing is so deep rooted. It's,

00:15:03.400 it's your, it's, it's a feeling just being uncomfortable in your own skin. And all I

00:15:09.880 don't agree with the notion of being born in the wrong body. I can understand the sentiment. I,

00:15:13.800 I get it when they, when they say that it's, it's, uh, this longing, this, this compulsion

00:15:20.040 and you can't, you can't get it out of your head.

00:15:23.900 Uh, it just takes over.

00:15:25.800 And, uh, but she didn't know, she didn't know what, just to interject, your wife didn't, 0.86

00:15:33.640 she did.

00:15:34.320 Yeah.

00:15:34.440 She didn't know because you had felt when you met her that you had been healed.

00:15:39.120 And so you probably felt also, well, there's no reason to tell her that I've struggled with this.

00:15:45.100 I don't want to threaten this beautiful thing that God has given me.

00:15:48.860 And so she probably had no clue that this had been something that you had been struggling with.

00:15:55.180 And this is like early mid-80s at this point, correct?

00:16:01.260 Mid-80s.

00:16:02.820 We were actually married in 86.

00:16:05.820 Yeah.

00:16:06.880 Okay.

00:16:07.420 Yeah.

00:16:07.740 So you she had no idea but she knew something was going on and so

00:16:13.360 Tell us what happened from their third year of marriage. It came back with a vengeance what went down

00:16:20.000 Yeah, I I couldn't hide it

00:16:23.440 Obviously she kept after me like I said that she knew something was up and and I eventually I just

00:16:30.600 I had to

00:16:32.300 I had to tell her

00:16:33.720 I had even sought out a little bit of counseling

00:16:36.320 before I did that

00:16:37.180 just trying to see if there was anything I could do

00:16:39.140 and

00:16:40.340 there just wasn't

00:16:43.740 the resources just weren't there

00:16:45.300 back then

00:16:46.500 and so eventually I had to tell her

00:16:49.440 and I told her

00:16:50.720 there's just nothing I can do about this

00:16:52.320 and of course that was devastating to her

00:16:55.660 we ended up in divorce 0.88

00:17:01.740 of course

00:17:02.280 and uh i just i felt awful i was angry uh i was so sad you know i was just getting used to

00:17:11.200 the married life and and we had been making plans to have kids and all that was all that was going

00:17:19.020 away there was there was added stress we had bought a fixer-upper and i had been working on

00:17:22.780 the house and trying to get that ready and so now i had to get it now i'd get that done faster and

00:17:27.840 Plus, I still had work. And so there were a lot of things that were going wrong.

00:17:32.680 I was just I was losing everything. And she had moved out and in with her parents.

00:17:40.060 And I was still working on the house in the evenings. And I, boy, a depression really set in.

00:17:46.680 And there was a period of five different nights after I would finish working on the house.

00:17:52.940 I sat on her spare bedroom with a gun pointed to my head and it's I just I kept thinking I'm

00:18:02.260 going to do this and on the fifth night I finally did it and I pulled the trigger

00:18:09.500 but nothing happened and and this is a that's a story that's it's in the book is it's

00:18:16.460 it's a tearjerker. But to this day, I don't know if it was divine intervention or if it was just

00:18:28.720 my mind playing tricks on me. I don't know. But somehow I got through it. I look back on it now

00:18:36.480 and I'm grateful that God brought me through that. The divorce was final in 89. That group

00:18:44.720 that I found in Portland that I mentioned I found another group just like it in Seattle and I started

00:18:50.060 going to it and at the same time I was also seeking out counselors and I even talked to a lot of

00:18:55.700 pastors I would call up churches in the area I didn't I didn't talk to my own pastor but I called

00:19:00.240 up other churches and just asked if I can come in and talk and and I told him what was going on

00:19:05.060 and you know I pray for a miracle and most of them they just said uh we I don't we don't know

00:19:12.200 what to do and and i mean biblical counseling i guess wasn't a thing then and i mean they just

00:19:19.260 most of the pastors i i don't think honestly were were well grounded in scripture and they just they

00:19:24.880 didn't know how to attack it there was one pastor i saw and i was sitting across from him he was at

00:19:32.240 his desk and i and and i had told him to i said i pray for a miracle this because it's going to

00:19:36.400 ruin my life and he leaned in and he says well maybe this is the miracle that you can actually

00:19:41.940 change your gender because i you know i told him what i had been contemplating when he said that

00:19:48.820 oh ali i just uh knowing what little i knew i mean i didn't even read the bible regularly but

00:19:58.760 you know i had been going to church and you know i believed in god creator god i believed in jesus

00:20:04.240 i believed in the resurrection um i knew enough to to to stand up and get the heck out of there

00:20:12.960 and i did i didn't say a word i just wow i just stood up and i turned around and walked out

00:20:18.080 because that guy was way way off base he that guy was off base oh yeah yeah and and now that guy

00:20:31.560 would be perfectly home today in a lot of churches.

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00:22:21.340 I was still trying to make it go away, but I kept going to that group in Seattle 1.00

00:22:24.900 and and I was dressed going as dressed as a woman um and so these things these they just

00:22:32.480 kept getting stronger in my head and I finally got to the point where I realized if I don't

00:22:36.600 do this thing I am going to wind up dead and uh there came a day and I just I made that decision

00:22:43.920 it was in uh 1992 uh and I I made that decision and I started seeing a different counselor who

00:22:52.980 was well versed in transitioning and i had to start seeing a new medical doctor

00:22:57.620 and getting tested i went on hormones and things started to happen there came a time there at the

00:23:05.660 end of 1992 came a time to tell my family i had to tell my parents what i was going to do

00:23:09.900 and i i flew home to florida i was living in washington state at the time

00:23:14.060 i flew home to florida for the christmas holidays to tell them what was going on

00:23:20.580 and it was the last night that I was here and they knew something was up to and so we finally

00:23:30.020 on the last night started talking about it and my father he he was a good father he he didn't

00:23:40.260 suffer foolishness much he was a disciplinarian he didn't say I love you a lot but when he did I

00:23:47.220 knew he meant it. He wasn't real affectionate, you know, but when occasionally when he did give

00:23:51.640 me a hug, I knew he meant it. And he, he, he was proud of his boy. You know, I, I was the first one

00:23:58.740 on the line to get a college degree. When I was a kid, I was, I made Eagle Scout. He was, that's my

00:24:03.300 boy, proud of my boy. You know, he would tell people. And then all of a sudden his boy wants

00:24:10.140 to be a girl his only son his only child and he he didn't react well it was devastating and honestly

00:24:21.440 i uh i can't say that i would have reacted any differently

00:24:26.700 that had to be devastating but the the conversation turned very nasty and

00:24:33.880 things were said and at one point he went off on a diatribe about his sisters his six sisters

00:24:44.140 and he told me about how loving and nurturing they are and all the things that they can do

00:24:51.000 that men can't and and and how they have to tolerate so much uh just from life and from men

00:24:57.940 and and and and what they do in order to raise kids i mean he just adored his sisters and his

00:25:04.260 mother and he just worked himself up into a lather you know he just he's gritting his teeth

00:25:11.580 and seething and he just says you're just not man enough to be a woman and uh that kind of struck me

00:25:19.040 and i had to fight back a chuckle because it seemed funny i mean it's a nonsensical statement

00:25:23.280 in and of itself, but I understood what he was trying to say. And from there, it just went

00:25:28.200 downhill. When I wrote the book, and I needed a title that popped into my head. So not man enough

00:25:35.200 to be a woman is the name of the book. That's where that came from. It was in March of 1993.

00:25:43.100 Even though I'd been on the hormones since the fall of 92. I one day, William left work,

00:25:50.960 and on Friday and then the next Wednesday I took a long week and the next Wednesday

00:25:55.260 Maggie showed up and it went amazingly well a lot of people didn't even recognize me

00:26:02.200 and some of them thought I was a new employee and yeah it was it was it was pretty crazy

00:26:09.080 and that's that's yeah that was the beginning of Maggie's career so you chose the name Maggie

00:26:14.800 as your new identity. I'm, I'm curious because nowadays there are different origin stories when

00:26:23.680 it comes to men who pretend to be women. It used to be even just a few years ago,

00:26:30.080 we assumed that every man who dresses up as a woman has a story like you had that they had

00:26:36.200 this persistent and insistent, consistent feeling from the time they were young, that you didn't

00:26:42.900 feel the two are born in the wrong body, but for some of them, they say they felt like they were

00:26:46.680 born in the wrong body, or they just wanted to be a woman, or they had these very active fantasy

00:26:51.540 lives about being female. Well, now it seems that more and more, we have young men, even older men

00:26:59.240 who did not have that story of when they were growing up, but almost suddenly they feel like,

00:27:04.800 you know what? I want to dress up as a woman. And so often with that kind of origin story,

00:27:10.420 you see them dressing up as a caricature of a woman, either hyper-sexualized, almost dressing

00:27:16.660 up like a prostitute or something very strange and disturbing, dressing up like, yes, or dressing

00:27:22.540 up like a little girl and wanting to be seen as adolescent, even as a grown man. And so there are 0.96

00:27:30.680 two different aspects of this, a story like yours that's like, you beg to not have this. And then

00:27:37.000 the stories of what we are seeing now where it's clearly sexual driven by pornography driven by

00:27:43.520 a desire of degradation self-degradation the degradation of other people it seems like those

00:27:48.940 are more of the individuals that insist on drag queen story hour insist on showering in the ladies

00:27:54.440 locker room going into bathrooms and things like that and i just wonder what you think before we

00:28:00.080 get more into your story and your transition and all of that i just wonder what you think of that

00:28:04.840 development because it's hard not to think that okay it's all sexual it's all pornography it's

00:28:12.920 all predatory when really like there are there are some differences but i'm just curious about

00:28:18.880 your perspective on all of that today yeah well back in the day it was it was called gender

00:28:26.680 identity disorder uh there were transvestites and transsexuals transvestites were just were

00:28:34.020 men who dressed up as women for sexual gratification they didn't want to be a woman 0.77

00:28:38.000 transsexuals actually either felt they were a woman or wanted to be a woman and they were 0.65

00:28:44.320 at different stages they were further uh distinctive by as either pre-op or post-op

00:28:51.540 that's that's all there was and and back then when when we were transitioning all we wanted to do

00:29:00.320 was transition and blend into society and get on with our lives the last thing we wanted was

00:29:07.340 attention um and very unlike what we see today i mean we we we took care in our presentation we

00:29:16.000 uh i i mean i have my beard removed uh with electrolysis i i went to a voice coach i was

00:29:22.140 able to retrain my voice so even on the phone people didn't realize that that i was a man

00:29:27.120 and uh uh like my gosh today it's just it's just so in your face they're they're the the movement

00:29:37.760 they're they're they're militant they're demanding they are coercive they uh it's it's just gotten so

00:29:46.560 out of hand and even while i was living as maggie by the way like i said i had a successful career

00:29:51.300 had a pretty comfortable life i got to live and work in three countries um after i i moved up the

00:29:57.780 ranks from engineer and i was i got into management i was a i was a corporate executive for uh seven

00:30:04.260 years and i had people working for me all around the world and and people just didn't know um

00:30:11.060 and then i launched onto a second career too which was primarily male career but i i succeeded in

00:30:16.660 that as well um and what i saw though 20 years ago even living as maggie i heard something about

00:30:26.740 drag queen story hour and i wonder what in the what what is that and i looked i saw a news report

00:30:33.140 or something and talked about drag queens reading books to children oh that can't be right that's

00:30:38.420 not happening but i kept hearing about it sure enough it was happening of course people would

00:30:43.940 deny it you know the people pushing they denied that was happening there's a cycle i'm sure you

00:30:49.380 know about this this cycle they deny it happens and then eventually when so much evidence comes

00:30:54.260 out they say uh okay it's just happening a little right now now it's happening a lot well okay

00:31:00.500 yeah it's happening but why do you have a problem with it try to turn it around on people try to

00:31:06.900 justify it normalize it and that same thing keeps happening it went from drag queen story hour to

00:31:13.940 uh bringing these books into the classrooms and into school libraries elementary school kids

00:31:21.860 and and then indoctrination and and now a whole bunch of teachers teachers are who are trans and 0.68

00:31:29.060 gay now are influencing children and it just kept going and going going i just i couldn't believe it

00:31:37.940 and i i wasn't i didn't become an activist but i when people would ask me about this people who 0.97

00:31:44.140 who knew me like from my family or maybe somebody who knew me from my past

00:31:47.520 you know what what do you think about this and i think this is atrocious

00:31:51.400 uh you know you had mentioned men who just uh all of a sudden think that they're they're a woman or

00:32:00.420 whatever and there's all sorts of new terms and labels that are being applied now those are

00:32:05.220 that's autokynephilia. And I have mixed feelings about it. I find it hard to believe that

00:32:12.940 that would just happen. Rapid onset gender dysphoria, it's called.

00:32:23.540 I bet that there's something that goes back to childhood that's feeding that. 0.95

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00:33:42.300 And it's interesting, you said during this time, even when you were living as a woman named Maggie,

00:33:47.500 trying to live as a woman named Maggie, you didn't like the activist aspect of it. I don't

00:33:52.440 know if you considered yourself an LGBTQ advocate or part of that world, or did you still consider

00:33:59.800 yourself a Christian during this time? Did you consider yourself maybe not even political

00:34:05.980 language, but still conservative leaning and how you saw the world or had you abandoned that

00:34:13.620 worldview by the time you started taking hormones and living as a woman? Yeah. Prior to transitioning,

00:34:23.600 there wasn't really an LGBTQ movement that I can remember. People I knew that were gay,

00:34:31.780 they would do things together. And then, of course, I had my little support group meeting for

00:34:35.960 the trans people. But there wasn't an all-out movement or an ideology that people were trying

00:34:42.580 to push um i uh and even after i had transitioned i never once did i ever believe that i was a real

00:34:54.440 woman i knew who and what i was i was a man pretending to be a woman i was good at it i was

00:34:59.080 successful people didn't know um yeah i used the women's restrooms and i traveled and and people

00:35:05.900 never knew i had a boss that he didn't know i had gone back to seattle i went to that support

00:35:11.980 group meeting as Maggie had been Maggie for many years. And I just went back to see if there's any

00:35:19.280 new faces or any old faces. I remember to see who the new faces are and see if I could be

00:35:22.860 and if any support. And what I saw was horrifying. I stuck my head in there and I looked around

00:35:29.660 and honestly, I thought about just asking, okay, is this the Amway meeting? And as an excuse to

00:35:35.980 to leave but i i went on in and uh everybody in there probably 20 30 people they're all dressed

00:35:44.440 you know and and just like the people you see in all the antifa riots and the blm riots they're

00:35:51.180 all tatted and pierced and multicolored hair and stuff and i and i went in i walked in there as

00:35:57.900 miss maggie and like i had just gotten off of a cruise you know and i mean i was looking good

00:36:03.880 it and uh uh i sat down and they they do a thing called the check-in at the first part of the

00:36:12.060 meeting where they go around everybody gets a chance to say something about themselves

00:36:15.540 without implicating anybody else and they all kept saying their name and then they'd say

00:36:23.000 he him or they were saying all these weird these words i i didn't know what was going on

00:36:30.420 and it came around to me and i just said my name is maggie and i started talking and they all

00:36:34.560 screamed at me pronouns and i just i mean this was my first exposure to this pronoun hysteria

00:36:45.660 so i said she her and um i wound up leaving early because i did i mean it had taken such a turn i

00:36:54.260 looked at the person who had started this group i knew from way back when and i just kind of gave

00:36:59.860 a stink eye. And I just, I'm thinking, how could you have let this happen? So you believed at the

00:37:07.720 time that you were still a Christian, but, you know, you talked about that you were a false

00:37:13.780 convert. So tell me, what were your feelings of trying to reconcile what you thought was genuine

00:37:20.760 Christianity with this identity? It sounds to me like you knew that you couldn't really reconcile

00:37:27.780 them yeah i i didn't reconcile it ever um i just had it in my mind that you know other than

00:37:37.740 living like this and whether or not it's even sin i mean living like this um other than this

00:37:45.300 i'm a pretty good person uh i'm an upstanding citizen god god will let me in won't we

00:37:53.680 i that was my feeling you know and it was a constant trying to weigh good with the bad

00:38:00.840 and always trying to be a better person i throughout my life i would try to read the

00:38:04.640 bible occasionally and uh it was always just kind of gibberish to me uh it was always greek greek to

00:38:10.880 me see what i did there um and uh yeah yeah i i just uh i couldn't get anywhere with it and i

00:38:19.540 i would start a bible in a year program often and by day three i'm just done i'm i can't do it

00:38:25.780 and uh i did yeah still considered myself christian i was still attending a church one

00:38:31.320 church or another and uh what happened was i moved i came back i didn't move yet but i came

00:38:38.260 back to florida in 2015 to marry my parents i i had been estranged from my father for 23 years

00:38:45.900 by the way. And I was still in touch with my mother. She never approved of what I did either,

00:38:51.360 but at least we communicated clandestinely. My father had cancer really bad. He'd been battling

00:38:56.920 it for three or four years and he was terminal. And I had been talking to my mother about coming

00:39:04.300 down to take care of her. And she finally agreed to let me do that. And I was going to set out the

00:39:09.720 next day and do a cross-country road trip. And I got a call the next morning from an aunt and she

00:39:15.560 told me that my mother died during the night and uh we didn't even know she was that sick

00:39:22.460 uh so that was that was pretty devastating so instead of driving i got on a plane and i came

00:39:29.000 back to florida and my aunt and uncle picked me up at the airport and this is actually i have a

00:39:35.580 large family and about half of them accepted what i did and the other half didn't and this aunt and

00:39:42.040 uncle they they never accepted what i did and we hadn't talked for decades until just recently

00:39:47.280 uh but they picked me up at the airport they stepped up it was very awkward first time they'd

00:39:53.440 ever met maggie and uh uh we hung out at the uh my aunt and i hung out the hospital uh to be with

00:40:00.880 my dad but i didn't i never went in but she kept conspiring with the nurse and uh through a series

00:40:06.860 of events my my father and i had a a deathbed reconciliation

00:40:17.980 and uh that was uh and that was just amazing i write about that in the book and that'll just

00:40:23.900 rip your heart out as well but um and the next day he died so my parents died nine days apart

00:40:32.960 So I had to stick around here.

00:40:36.380 We had to do a double funeral.

00:40:38.940 And I had to stick around for a year because probate takes a year.

00:40:42.960 And I got pretty close with my family that was here.

00:40:46.780 I should say Maggie.

00:40:47.440 Maggie did.

00:40:48.720 And in 2016, here's where the good part happens, Miss Allie Beth.

00:40:54.500 My aunt and uncle asked me to go to church with them.

00:40:57.000 And for the first time in my life, Allie, I heard the truth of the biblical gospel.

00:41:05.600 I had been going to church all my life, and all these pastors, they would get up in the pulpit.

00:41:11.360 There would be a scripture reading by the associate pastor.

00:41:13.420 That was it.

00:41:13.960 And then the pastors would get up, and they'd start talking about a news event that happened that week and blah, blah, blah.

00:41:19.400 And then try to apply that to our everyday life somehow, based on the scripture.

00:41:26.520 I don't know.

00:41:27.000 didn't have a Bible in sight, but I'm attending this church now, and this pastor has Bible in

00:41:34.200 hand, and he's reading from it, not just the scripture reading for the day. He's reading from

00:41:38.660 the Bible, and he's exposing scripture. And I had never in my life heard a pastor talking about hell

00:41:46.960 and sin and wrath and repentance. I didn't even know what repentance was.

00:41:52.840 and i gotta tell you made me pretty mad at first

00:41:57.920 but i was drawn in somehow and i i i found the archives online and i started listening to all

00:42:07.240 his previous sermons for the last couple of years and this went on and i i really and i started was

00:42:13.520 reading the bible that when he when i first heard what he was telling me things like uh

00:42:20.180 the wages of sin is death it's appointed and demand to die once and then comes judgment

00:42:25.120 um it's a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living god and and that jesus said no one

00:42:32.300 is good no one is good but god and and that scripture says that we've all sinned and fallen

00:42:38.180 short of the glory of god i mean this is all kind of bad bad news and like i said i was getting

00:42:44.340 angry so two things happened it drove me to the bible to check what he was saying and i found out

00:42:52.020 he's right and the second thing that happened was i realized i'm reading the bible

00:43:00.020 and it's making sense that had never happened before i just dove in i couldn't get enough and

00:43:07.860 And even though the gospel was offensive, and it's honestly supposed to be, I just,

00:43:16.200 I kept getting drawn in.

00:43:17.760 At the same time, I found other preachers online.

00:43:25.800 Next sponsor is Good Ranchers.

00:43:28.860 All right, the kids are heading back to school, and you need to implement that routine.

00:43:33.460 Maybe the summer things kind of got off kilter with family dinner night because people are

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00:44:02.500 and that it is from a farm or ranch that you actually want to support right here in the U.S.

00:44:09.020 Farmers, ranchers in America, they are our backbone. In some ways, they actually built

00:44:13.720 America. And we should honor that by ensuring that all of our meat comes from good ranchers

00:44:19.040 so we can ensure that it's all coming from an American farm or ranch. They've got all different

00:44:24.820 kinds of things. They've got chicken, they've got chicken nuggets, they've got the steaks,

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00:44:37.480 to go to goodranchers.com slash Allie code Allie to get $50 off anything. Goodranchers.com slash

00:44:44.400 Allie code Allie. All my life, I'd had a blind faith in God and Jesus. From an early age,

00:44:56.800 people told me jesus died on the cross your sins okay i they always said it just that nonchalantly

00:45:05.860 that cavalierly there was never any passion behind it there was never any explanation of it uh i

00:45:13.580 didn't i never knew why he did that i jesus is your savior okay i never understood why i needed

00:45:20.740 a savior you know i'm just i'm just trying to get through life trying to be a good person

00:45:24.600 boy i didn't i didn't get any of it and uh but now it's it's starting to make sense and it wasn't

00:45:33.860 until i had a good grasp of the bad news that i could fully appreciate the good news of the gospel

00:45:41.660 and once i looked at the law uh i looked at it as if looking into a mirror

00:45:50.300 and as you know ali is it the law is not a guideline to be lived to to live your life by

00:45:56.840 it's there to reveal us for who we are right it's once i look at the law like that

00:46:04.020 all of a sudden i could see my sin in its true light and i could see myself for who and what i

00:46:10.500 was i just an absolute wretch vile person and i'm not talking about just this lifestyle i'm

00:46:17.600 living. I'm talking about sin, sin in general. And I had this sorrow and I, again, it wasn't

00:46:29.780 just being trans. It was, I felt guilty over telling a lie. And when I realized that I was

00:46:38.680 condemned from that first time I ever told a lie, or that first time I dishonored my parents,

00:46:44.220 or that first time i stole something that's when things got real and i had this sorrow um

00:46:52.780 and it was you know there's a worldly sorrow and it's usually a sorrow getting caught but i i i

00:47:00.060 felt this this godly sorrow i i i realized what i had done i realized who god was and

00:47:07.340 And I had sinned against him.

00:47:11.040 I had transgressed against his law, the one who created me, the one who gave me life,

00:47:17.160 the one who gave me a mother and a father.

00:47:20.040 And that crushed me.

00:47:23.700 And I finally understood what I needed to do.

00:47:29.000 And I needed to repent and put my faith in Jesus.

00:47:33.040 And like I said, prior to all this happening, I didn't even know what that word meant.

00:47:36.600 but now i understood what it what it is and it's not trying to make your life better it's not

00:47:40.960 trying to clean yourself up to come to him it's it's it's a change of mind it's just turning your

00:47:47.400 back on sin just turning away from sin and turning toward god and that's what i wanted to do and and

00:47:55.120 there's a promise um that you know will be will be made a new creation and we'll be given a new

00:48:03.760 heart with new desires i was a little bit hesitant first because i thought oh my goodness if i if i

00:48:08.120 do this does that mean i'm going to have to detransition and uh because i would that would

00:48:13.640 be problematic i mean after 30 years of living as maggie i was way more entrenched as maggie than

00:48:19.120 as william and it would be expensive and painful i had to have it stuck to me and just be a nightmare

00:48:24.900 and uh uh but i i got to that point finally and it didn't matter anymore i knew what i had done

00:48:35.780 and there was guilt and shame over that and i didn't want that and i just didn't want to

00:48:43.000 continue sinning i knew i had been slave to sin all my life and i didn't want that anymore i

00:48:48.740 wanted to be free from it and one night i just broke down crying and i called out to god and

00:48:56.340 confessed my sins i asked for forgiveness and for the first time in my life i repented and i put my

00:49:01.980 faith in jesus and that you know what happened next i was given a new heart with new desires

00:49:11.920 everything changed i saw the world differently i saw people differently i saw myself differently

00:49:18.680 Like, I knew the Holy Spirit was in me and living in me.

00:49:23.500 And I saw my lifestyle for what it was.

00:49:26.660 And not only did I see it for what it was, I just didn't want it anymore.

00:49:31.840 Prior to all this, I was perfectly content living out the rest of my life as a woman.

00:49:36.900 I had a lot of friends that didn't even know my next door neighbor and my best friend.

00:49:40.020 She didn't know.

00:49:40.620 She thought of us as sisters.

00:49:42.920 And but how all of a sudden I just, how could I live like this?

00:49:48.680 and there were some folks who were close to me as well who realized, okay, yes, you get it. You're

00:49:55.320 saved, and that's great, but you don't have to detransition. You can still. I said, no, you don't

00:50:01.920 get it. I don't want to live like this anymore. I see it as abhorrent. I don't want it. I want

00:50:11.360 to detransition, and I want to do it to glorify God, and I wanted to be a testimony, and I felt

00:50:17.860 like I was having to fight people over this sometimes. It was weird. I'm curious because

00:50:23.000 this was in, you said you went to church in 2016. So this process and studying apologetics and

00:50:33.080 reading the Bible and realizing what repentance was, it's interesting because I noticed in that

00:50:38.540 time what you were diving into wasn't necessarily about transgenderism and gender identity. It was

00:50:45.840 really just the Bible and God exists. He sent his son. This is what sin is. This is what turning 0.57

00:50:51.520 away from sin is. So I wonder how you realized during that time, was it something someone said?

00:50:57.960 Was it reading a Bible verse? Was it just the Holy Spirit increasing his influence in your life that

00:51:03.180 made you realize, okay, all of this over here, the existence of God, his authority, the gospel,

00:51:09.600 All of that means that this, what I'm doing, how I'm identifying is wrong.

00:51:14.800 Because you could have believed some of those people, because there are certainly, as you

00:51:19.760 said, pastors who believe what that pastor did 30 years ago, that look, sure, you can

00:51:25.880 have Jesus, you can be a Christian, but you don't have to give up this part of your life.

00:51:31.280 This is who you are.

00:51:33.520 And God loves you the way you are.

00:51:34.880 It doesn't sound like you were persuaded by that at all.

00:51:38.960 so i just wonder what it was that showed you so clearly can't do both it was it was knowing the

00:51:47.440 truth i i i get that a lot from people today a lot of trans people and gay people who who say

00:51:55.540 that they're christians and they they have this notion that yeah god loves them just the way they

00:52:02.240 are. God would never ask me to change. Yeah, sorry, but no, that's, he asked us to change.

00:52:12.440 Jesus said, if anyone would follow me, deny yourself, take up your cross daily and follow

00:52:18.240 me. And Jesus never affirmed sin.

00:52:23.240 last sponsor for the day is concerned women for america i get questions a lot about what should

00:52:32.880 i be doing how can i get involved at concerned women for america you can get involved if you

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00:52:47.460 actually going on on the local level on the state level on the federal level and see how

00:52:52.180 your voice can count, how you can raise a respectful ruckus as we like to say for the

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00:53:01.900 time, a free practical guide to biblical civic engagement. This would be a great guide to bring

00:53:07.160 to your Bible study, to bring to your small group, make sure everyone in your community knows what to

00:53:12.580 vote for, how to vote, the issues that are on the line, and especially those that affect Christians

00:53:16.860 that affect kids. Go to ConcernedWomen.org slash Allie. Get your free guide today. ConcernedWomen.org

00:53:23.560 slash Allie. I was just interested in your detransition and that happened a few years

00:53:35.260 ago. So tell me how that eventually went down. Well, yeah, I started, I announced it to my family

00:53:42.420 and I felt bad about it. I mean, I was happy that I was doing it, but here I am. I'm going to do

00:53:47.100 this thing to my family again. And they're going to have to get used to a whole different person,

00:53:52.700 basically. It took a lot of planning. I needed to get a mastectomy. And that took 10 months to

00:54:03.940 find a surgeon. I started calling around the local area. I talked to cancer doctors and surgeons

00:54:10.180 and anybody who would do a mastectomy the moment they found out i was detransitioning they didn't

00:54:14.960 want anything more to do with me someone would hang up on me someone said call a plastic surgeon

00:54:19.960 i call plastic surgeons in the area same thing they didn't want to they didn't want to work with

00:54:24.340 me they'd be happy to help me transition but even here in the free state of florida i couldn't i was

00:54:30.900 so surprised. For months, I looked and I just could not find a surgeon. I was at my wit's end.

00:54:42.960 I was getting ready to call a gender clinic in Tennessee, which I didn't want to do. But I was

00:54:51.240 going to call them up and tell them, I'm a woman and I want to transition to being a man. Help me

00:54:56.220 out. And this clinic is known for, I mean, you can call them up and after a 20 minute phone call,

00:55:00.440 you'll have your letters and the papers, whatever documentation you need to go to any surgeon that

00:55:05.600 does these things and get it done and probably even have the state or have insurance pay for it.

00:55:10.480 I was getting ready to resort to doing that. And at the last moment, a surgeon in Miami Beach

00:55:16.100 called me and said, come on down for a consult. I'll work with you. So I did. And of course,

00:55:22.740 it had to be Miami Beach. It was very expensive, but he was awesome. And he told me he would

00:55:30.220 never help anybody transition but he he heard about me and uh he wanted to help so that was great

00:55:36.940 um there was a recovery time and i did have to stay down there for quite a while

00:55:41.260 uh i i during that time i was waiting for surgery i had to keep working as maggie because i was

00:55:48.360 trying to save up the money uh the detransition itself everything all in was about 30 grand so

00:55:54.280 gosh that was a that was not a cheap endeavor and uh then started a new job as william

00:56:01.140 wow william was back and over 2023 wow that's amazing praise god um is this something just

00:56:12.800 the feeling of wanting to be the opposite sex is that still something that you struggle with

00:56:19.780 and that the Lord helps you through? 0.97

00:56:21.980 No, no, that's gone.

00:56:24.760 You know, I talk about, you know, being born again

00:56:27.380 and giving a new heart and new desires

00:56:29.940 and being free from sin.

00:56:31.720 That's all true.

00:56:32.720 But does it mean that we never sin again?

00:56:34.800 No, of course not.

00:56:35.540 We're still in the flesh and we will deal with that.

00:56:40.080 But I see sin in a different way.

00:56:42.460 I see my own sin in a different way.

00:56:44.880 I recognize it.

00:56:46.080 um i i'm remorseful and i i try to take a step to mitigate it i ask for forgiveness

00:56:52.340 i hate that i do certain things but praise god this this thing he took off of me completely

00:57:01.060 um i had started to write the book even while i was going through all this

00:57:07.420 uh even while i was still living as maggie and i i look back on it now and i think i

00:57:15.880 I'm glad I wrote it when I did, because each chapter I tried to write in the mindset that I

00:57:22.900 was in at that point in history. And I look back on this now. I don't think I could have done that

00:57:29.640 in the chapter that talks about my transition. I mean, I was euphoric. This was a wonderful thing.

00:57:35.140 I was exciting and new, and I was looking forward to new life. I can express it in those words,

00:57:42.360 I guess, right now, but I don't remember those actual feelings anymore. It's so far removed from

00:57:46.500 me. So I couldn't have written that now. So I'm glad I did. I'm glad I wrote it when I did.

00:57:53.280 But this thing, these urges, this compulsion that I had dealt with all my life. Oh, it's

00:57:59.320 all right. It's gone. Just gone. And I'm so grateful for that. I think the Lord realized

00:58:04.860 that I just wouldn't be able to function if I had to deal with that. But now, you know,

00:58:11.420 I, when I, when I surrendered, I mean, I just gave my life to him with no conditions. And

00:58:17.520 I said, you know, use me and I want to be used. And that's, that's what I'm doing now. So I'm,

00:58:24.820 I'm an evangelist and I'm an activist. And I mean, I'll, I'll share the gospel with whoever

00:58:29.600 will listen. But I, I, I do go after particularly LGBTQ because I have a history there. I've been

00:58:41.080 there i understand it and i just i have that love for them i get accused of being such a hater all

00:58:48.520 the time and uh i'm just vile and i'm a racist and i'm a transphobe and this and that and

00:58:56.920 i get death threats too and it's but i just i keep trying to plug away at it lovingly if i can

00:59:03.800 i try to be and it's uh they say you're a hater because you won't affirm i said listen it's

00:59:09.720 It's not, how hateful would you have to be to watch a blind man walking toward a cliff and say nothing?

00:59:17.180 You know, is it loving to tell a 16-year-old girl who's anorexic that, oh, yeah, you still look a little pudgy there. 0.79

00:59:23.760 You probably should lose a little more weight.

00:59:26.000 That's not loving.

00:59:27.360 It's not hateful to speak truth, and it's not loving to affirm a lie.

00:59:30.820 It's not loving to affirm a sin.

00:59:33.180 So that's the message I try to go forth with.

00:59:37.260 And, you know, it falls on a lot of deaf ears, but sometimes a conversation gets struck up.

00:59:42.760 Sometimes a public conversation online on X or Facebook moves over to private direct messages.

00:59:52.160 And that's good.

00:59:53.480 I like that.

00:59:54.460 And I mean, this is what I want to do.

00:59:56.360 I want to talk to people.

00:59:58.060 I want to let people know that there's hope.

01:00:03.480 Well, thank you so much. 0.98

01:00:05.220 not man enough to be a woman your book is available wherever books are sold i assume

01:00:11.540 and they can find more information about you online that's where i found you

01:00:15.780 william thank you so much for sharing your story and praise god for what he's accomplished in your

01:00:20.920 life i'm so thankful for testimonies like yours and just being reminded of his power and he is

01:00:26.840 seeking and saving the lost so william thank you so much thank you so much for having me

01:00:32.260 Alibeth, appreciate you. Keep up the good work.

01:00:36.300 You too.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - August 07, 2026

Ep 1381 ｜ He Lived as a 'Trans Christian' for 30 Years Before He Heard This ｜ William Allen

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