Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - May 22, 2020


Ep 253 ｜ MLMs： Companies or Cults？


Episode Stats

Length

28 minutes

Words per Minute

178.11354

Word Count

5,006

Sentence Count

2

Misogynist Sentences

1

Hate Speech Sentences

4


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 hey guys welcome to relatable happy friday i hope everyone had a wonderful week today we are going
00:00:07.760 to talk about a topic that is pretty controversial a pretty sensitive subject i would say and that
00:00:15.040 is the subject of mlms or multi-level marketing companies or businesses and what i think about
00:00:24.160 them and how i think christians should be approaching this topic and approaching mlms and
00:00:31.180 engaging with mlms like i said on instagram do not get preemptively offended by this please
00:00:38.940 whenever i talk about uh or whenever i say that i'm going to talk about a controversial topic i
00:00:45.460 always get messages saying uh you know please research this or please make sure you know what
00:00:50.940 you're talking about before you talk about it of course i i always do my research before i talk
00:00:56.340 about something and my goal is always to bring you the truth in love and to be as honest and to be
00:01:04.700 as truthful and as gracious and as sensitive as i possibly can be without sparing any fact or any
00:01:12.700 side of it now am i perfect at that absolutely not i'm sure i have failed at that many times and you
00:01:17.720 always let me know but with this topic as with all topics i am going to try to show you both sides of
00:01:27.060 it and then i will conclude with what i think and then again how i think we should be looking at this
00:01:32.260 from a christian perspective okay let's get into this about mlms are you guys excited are you nervous
00:01:39.500 you have no idea what i'm going to say don't be nervous about this if you're in an mlm i actually think
00:01:44.440 this is going to be an episode interestingly enough that is not going to offend anyone i i really think
00:01:50.800 that both sides will be fairly pleased with my assessment of this that's not my goal that's just
00:01:57.220 kind of how it ended up after i prepared for this so first if you're unfamiliar with what an mlm is
00:02:03.440 let me just give you a broad definition a multi-level marketing company it's typically made up of people
00:02:10.420 who make money by selling the products of a company and by recruiting people who also sell
00:02:16.260 the products and recruit people and then those people sell the products and recruit people and so
00:02:20.840 on and so on so you are making money in an mlm both from selling the products to people so direct sales
00:02:27.060 but you're also making money from the sales that are made by the people you recruit and sometimes you
00:02:31.980 even make money from the recruitment itself you get a percentage of whatever your recruits get when
00:02:37.400 they make a sale so the more people you recruit and the more people they recruit and so on the more
00:02:42.960 money you make in an mlm so it's not just how much you sell it's also how much people uh that you have
00:02:50.240 recruited sell and the people that they have recruited sell but all legitimate multi-level marketing
00:02:55.760 companies are focused on a product that they are selling not just a way to get rich they are selling a
00:03:02.500 product that there is an actual demand for in the market that is a big thing that differentiates
00:03:09.060 an mlm from a pyramid scheme which we'll get into a little bit more in a minute we're going to talk
00:03:15.060 about the goods and the bads of mlms and uh how christians should be thinking about them first let me
00:03:23.700 give you some background about me why i know quite a bit about this subject probably more than most people
00:03:31.460 do who are not actually in mlm so i grew up in the world of merch of multi-level marketing my parents
00:03:39.380 were in amway that wasn't their main source of income but it was a big part of our lives growing
00:03:45.300 up how i learned about leadership networking building teams showing the plan as it was called financial
00:03:52.500 freedom and independent entrepreneurship the the beauty of being your own boss the beauty of being able
00:03:58.820 to work from home all of that i learned from my parents being in amway and all of this really
00:04:05.700 impacted me and the goals that i made for myself growing up and what i wanted to do with my life a
00:04:12.420 part of how i am is my personality and part of it is this upbringing that i've i've never been a
00:04:19.780 huge fan of authority whether that's in school or just in life in general i have always been pretty
00:04:25.620 much the way that i am now i i love to learn and i love to be taught by people who are much
00:04:30.580 smarter than me and have a lot more experience than me i'm always willing to learn more and i love
00:04:35.460 learning but ultimately i want to be independent when it comes to what i do professionally i want to
00:04:41.300 be in charge of what i do not of other people i don't have any interest in managing other people
00:04:46.900 at all or even running a company or anything like that but i like to be in charge of my schedule in
00:04:51.860 charge of my content in charge of my career trajectory and i don't mean that i don't sacrifice
00:04:58.420 my wants for the sake of other people or my family because i do and i'm so glad to do that but i don't
00:05:04.260 like being controlled by a boss or limited by a job i don't like being told what i can say or when or
00:05:11.300 how specifically i have to do something again i'm okay with parameters and shared goals and people
00:05:16.980 instructing and helping me i don't like being controlled i don't like being managed or micromanaged
00:05:22.980 i'm not even saying that's a good thing that is just a part of my personality that god gave me that
00:05:28.260 was also fostered in uh growing up in this world of multi-level marketing it also uh shaped me as uh
00:05:38.020 someone who who not just wanted to uh be my own boss but who just values freedom and flexibility
00:05:45.700 in general and to values that kind of independence and self-reliance and again i'm not talking about
00:05:53.540 in a spiritual sense i'm just talking about in a professional sense the world of multi-level
00:05:58.020 marketing really values freedom values flexibility and values uh success and dreaming and goal reaching
00:06:06.580 and all of that stuff so i was born independent but i was also raised to value independence not raised to
00:06:14.740 value uh you know necessarily monetary wealth or superficial gains or anything like that but the
00:06:21.380 freedom and the flexibility and the independence part that certainly i gleaned and gained from the
00:06:27.060 world of multi-level marketing um and for all of this i am really thankful people ask me what my
00:06:33.780 parents did to help build uh building me confidence to speak in front of people and to do things like
00:06:39.780 this podcast and a lot of it had to do with the culture that amway created although my parents
00:06:46.100 would have just raised me like that anyway because they were very hard workers who were entrepreneurs
00:06:51.540 themselves um but amway certainly had a a place in my life and created these things i went to uh i went
00:06:59.620 to conferences all the time i heard people speak we listened to tapes and cds in the car of people talking
00:07:05.540 about leadership we read books about how to dream big and make goals and things like that i watched
00:07:11.860 people go from being chained at a at a desk job that didn't have any upward mobility to being able
00:07:18.100 to be financially independent and provide for their families in a new way all of this i think very positively
00:07:24.260 impacted me but but i also saw the other side of multi-level marketing which i noticed more as
00:07:34.180 i grew up for some people for some people it does become a religion so for example instead of sharing
00:07:42.660 the gospel to the person at a checkout counter uh the christian who is in an mlm might be more apt to
00:07:50.340 share their business and in much the same way that they might share the gospel if they were sharing
00:07:55.620 the gospel the hope that they offer strangers so often christians in an mlm isn't of eternal life and
00:08:02.900 peace and god but of wealth and the ability to work from home that is what is constantly compelling
00:08:08.740 them that is what inspires them that is what they want to talk about most not the gospel of jesus christ
00:08:14.500 that they claim to believe in but instead this gospel of financial freedom and uh opportunities that
00:08:22.020 are provided in the mlm and the evangelism of many who work in mlms are extremely it's extremely
00:08:29.540 persistent every mom you know probably has a story of someone that they haven't talked to in 10 years
00:08:36.180 reaching out to them via facebook and asking if they're looking for a way to make more money which
00:08:41.140 in itself may not be inappropriate but absent of any real connection or relationship this kind of outreach
00:08:48.660 makes people feel used and like commodities rather than like real people and by the way i'll say my parents
00:08:54.340 were never like this my parents like i said this wasn't their main source of income so it wasn't
00:08:58.900 the center of our lives and it's not everything they did and my parents are really good at building
00:09:03.620 genuine relationships and friendships so i didn't see this from them but i've seen it from other people
00:09:08.580 i saw it growing up and i see it even now in mlms um for example i experienced this for myself my husband
00:09:15.860 and i were visiting a church a couple years ago maybe three years ago now a couple approached us they were
00:09:21.860 super nice uh she asked for my phone number she said that she was going to text me to hang out and
00:09:27.940 we were so excited because we were in this new church and we felt like wow god presented us with
00:09:34.180 these with these new friends a young couple friend at the first as of on the first day of this uh of going
00:09:40.180 to this new church so we already had a potential friendship and we were so excited about that i didn't
00:09:46.420 hear from her for a couple weeks she didn't text me or anything like that i didn't see her again
00:09:51.060 and then one random night i get a phone call from her hadn't talked to her at all since i had seen
00:09:57.060 them at church and she asks how we're doing for like two seconds and how things are going how church
00:10:03.620 is going and things like that and then i answer her she doesn't seem that interested and then she
00:10:08.180 immediately asks me if i'm looking for another way to make money and she makes her pitch for her mlm
00:10:14.580 and i'm like no i'm not looking for another way to make money i'm looking for a friend thanks a lot
00:10:19.380 we didn't have any kind of relationship before that she didn't know me and after i told her i
00:10:24.260 wasn't interested in that she never reached out to me again uh unfortunately for some people
00:10:30.340 christians in particular evangelizing their mlm takes the place of both true evangelism and building
00:10:37.220 true relationships with those in the body of christ it becomes their religion at the expense of the
00:10:43.620 christian life a mini mlm conferences are like a worship conference the the person who started the
00:10:50.260 business is hailed as like this god or goddess like figure the people who have been successful in
00:10:56.260 the business are worshiped like heroes of the faith using songs at these conferences not about god but
00:11:02.420 about confidence and success in money there's a lot of emotion when hearing a testimony about someone
00:11:09.140 whose life has been changed by that particular business and sometimes these businesses are even
00:11:14.420 kind of cult-like they they claim that there is no other business or no other place or no other
00:11:20.340 community like this mlm like there's something uh divine or special about the purpose of this particular mlm
00:11:28.100 they claim that membership in the mlm or or reaching a certain level will grant you access or satisfaction or
00:11:35.220 fulfillment the things that you have truly been longing for and you'll finally be at peace uh what
00:11:42.260 also makes mlm is kind of cult like some not all some mlms kind of cult-like is how they use parts of
00:11:49.220 christianity in their messaging to make their purpose and mission sound transcended and monumental uh there can
00:11:57.060 be a very incestuous relationship between the world of multi-level marketing and the prosperity gospel
00:12:04.420 you hear the idea that god's desire for you is to be wealthy to be independent that god is using this
00:12:10.740 company to accomplish a special purpose and that purpose is to make sure uh moms have a way to make
00:12:16.100 money or or uh to get the word out about the amazingness of oils or whatever it is mlm culture if you will
00:12:26.260 is very intertwined with not just the prosperity gospel but it's also uh intertwined with the self-love
00:12:33.060 culture which in itself is intertwined with the prosperity gospel it's intertwined with what i call
00:12:38.740 the toxic culture of self-love they are focused on self-reliance on self-empowerment on self-betterment
00:12:46.740 which is understandable from a secular perspective and even maybe in some ways like a professional
00:12:52.420 perspective like what i was saying before but not from a christian perspective not in all areas of your
00:12:58.660 life you can sell a product and you can even recruit people in a company without uh without
00:13:04.660 buying into the unbiblical self-focused mindset that is unfortunately propagated by a lot of mlms
00:13:12.660 there is also another problem with mlms there are a lot of them which are actually pyramid schemes so
00:13:19.060 there are businesses that they try to show themselves as mlms but they are really pyramid schemes so mlms
00:13:25.060 sell a product that the market is demanding for example a makeup mlm or a leggings mlm or an essential
00:13:32.100 oils mlm all of these companies started with a product a product that the people who sell them
00:13:37.940 believe in and probably use a product that people want and love and buy the distributors in these
00:13:44.020 companies focus on selling these products they uh they love the product themselves they have used it they
00:13:51.060 uh sell the product and they recruit people to sell the product they make money from recruiting people
00:13:55.460 but the focus isn't on recruitment in a true mlm if it's not a pyramid scheme a pyramid scheme
00:14:02.740 focuses almost exclusively on recruitment there is a big so-called investment or fee when your recruits sign
00:14:11.300 up or for the recruit when the recruits sign up and you get a percentage of that if you recruited someone
00:14:17.620 they sign up they sign up they pay the large fee you get a percentage of that sign up fee every time
00:14:22.580 you sign someone up you get a percentage of that fee and that is how you make money there are products
00:14:29.140 sold in pyramid schemes but the product is not the focus the focus is recruitment the focus is getting rich
00:14:35.860 quick the focus is not on selling the product at all in fact uh some pyramid schemes a lot of pyramid schemes
00:14:42.820 actually don't have a real product it might just kind of be a facade to get people to sign up so not
00:14:49.780 all mlms are pyramid schemes i would say most today mlms are probably not pyramid schemes but all pyramid schemes
00:14:58.180 are disguised as legitimate mlms so what are my thoughts on all of this and how do i think that we should
00:15:07.300 think about mlms and approach mlms as christians as christian women um so here is here's what i believe
00:15:16.340 mlms are not inherently bad and in fact they can be very good and i know that statement might disappoint
00:15:22.660 a lot of you out there because there are strong feelings against mlms but mlms are not inherently bad
00:15:29.140 and um again i know a lot of you think they are but they can be a legitimate means of making money
00:15:37.940 and providing for families given that you think about these few things so there are let's see six
00:15:46.740 things that if you are in an mlm or you are thinking about joining an mlm there are six things that i think
00:15:53.700 that you should consider before joining or if you're considering staying in one these are six
00:16:01.380 things that i believe that you need to make sure of as a christian woman number one make sure that it's
00:16:08.260 not a pyramid scheme is there an actual product being sold and is the focus sales rather than just
00:16:15.060 recruiting people and making a buck off the sign up fee if it is a pyramid scheme then you don't need
00:16:20.500 to be a part of it that is deceptive and conniving and therefore simple and you can do more research
00:16:26.580 on your own there are a lot of resources out there that help you pinpoint what a pyramid scheme actually
00:16:31.780 is and can help you decide if what you're a part of is a pyramid scheme or a legitimate mlm number two
00:16:40.900 make sure that you do your research so look at the leaders of the company what is their past is it
00:16:47.460 riddled with failed or sketchy business ventures do they seem to have integrity how did they come
00:16:53.540 up with their product was it just to create this company or was it because they saw a demand for a
00:16:58.900 product and created something to meet that demand the latter is preferable look into their business
00:17:05.060 plan and the goals of the company does it seem legitimate or does it seem like a get rich quick
00:17:10.820 scheme number three make sure the product that is being sold is a good product research how and where
00:17:18.580 it's made look at real success stories make sure you like the product and believe in the product make
00:17:24.180 sure other people like the product and that there's a demand for the product if you believe in the product
00:17:29.620 if you see a demand for the product then that is a good thing if you don't believe in the product if you
00:17:35.060 think it's overhyped then trying to sell it to make money is going to be neither fruitful nor honest
00:17:42.180 that's not going to be a fulfilling or a good job for you number four make sure sharing about your
00:17:49.860 business does not replace sharing the gospel that girl in the checkout line needs jesus more than she
00:17:57.540 needs a new protein shake and it's not wrong to talk to her about the thing that you are selling just
00:18:03.540 ensure that you aren't replacing uh the message of your business with the message or that you are
00:18:10.580 not replacing the message of christ with the message of your business number five make sure that you don't
00:18:17.940 buy into the culture or theology your mlm may be selling it may not be wrong to be a part of an mlm that
00:18:26.260 disagrees with your theology or ideology since most people work for companies where the people in charge
00:18:32.100 don't align exactly with what they believe perfectly but make sure that you don't get sucked in keep
00:18:39.540 your eyes on christ keep your focus on the word you can glorify him by doing this job excellently and
00:18:46.500 with integrity but god's goal for your life is not to be independently wealthy necessarily it is to be
00:18:53.620 dependently holy and that might include wealth but it also might not you need to keep in mind that the
00:19:01.220 mlm that you are a part of isn't a special organization with special divine favor from god
00:19:07.780 it might be a great organization and the mission and the product might be awesome and it might be set
00:19:12.980 apart from other missions and products but it's not this special organization with special define uh
00:19:20.340 divine favor from god if that is an idea that is constantly being pushed on you or if you ever feel like
00:19:26.900 you are uh being encouraged to make an idol of this business an idol of this product an idol of reaching
00:19:33.620 the next level or uh fulfilling the next role whatever it is then you need to pray about this
00:19:41.380 and you need to see if you might be in a quasi cult and it's probably time for you to head on out and god
00:19:48.980 will provide for you and be with you as you make what is a tough transition again that's not all mlms by any
00:19:55.300 means i'm saying if you are in one and you assess that it is pushing you into um ungodly realms of
00:20:03.540 thinking an ungodly idolatrous lifestyle then you really need to assess whether or not you need
00:20:08.980 to be a part of that mlm number six this is the last one make sure that you do not allow your mlm to
00:20:18.660 ruin or replace relationships i understand that in order for you to make money in an mlm
00:20:24.980 you gotta hustle abc always be closing but your friendships matter more that doesn't mean that
00:20:32.020 you can't sell to your friends that doesn't mean that you can't recruit strangers but don't replace
00:20:38.980 or ruin relationships with recruitment only sell to people who you really think would like your product
00:20:46.340 and benefit from your products only recruit people you actually think are interested so in conclusion on
00:20:54.100 this topic i am all for entrepreneurship but how the christian does entrepreneurship and how the
00:21:01.620 christian does sales and particularly mlms should be different than how the rest of the world does it
00:21:09.620 i hope that kind of satiated both sides of this issue i know that this is a very hot topic i understand
00:21:17.140 that this is a very sensitive subject because for a lot of you this is your livelihood or you're on the other
00:21:22.900 end of this and you've been really hurt by people who have consistently tried to sell you something
00:21:28.260 rather than be your friend or show any real care or compassion there are certainly extremes to this
00:21:35.060 and there are two sides of this story but the fact is mlms are not inherently bad or inherently deceptive
00:21:42.420 but they easily can be so you can be a part of an mlm and honor the lord with your work but it is very possible
00:21:50.260 as it is with a lot of jobs but probably especially mlms to wade into deception and superficial relationships
00:21:58.340 just to make a sale so it can be a little bit tricky but i certainly am not condemning mlms as a
00:22:04.900 whole i think it is certainly possible to do it in a way that is glorifying to the lord and look if it's not
00:22:10.580 for you if you're not an mlm person it's like the whole thing the whole idea of just selling to people
00:22:16.260 selling to your friends and trying to make you know money off of the relationships that you have
00:22:21.220 if that's not for you then you don't have to be a part of it i don't think that it's right either to
00:22:27.620 slander everyone who is in an mlm or to generalize all mlms as being fake as being deceptive as being
00:22:35.540 pyramid schemes because that's just not factual or true mlms have provided for a lot of people an honest
00:22:42.100 way to make money by selling something that they really believe in and because they sell something
00:22:47.220 that they really believe in they are able to recruit people who also want to sell something
00:22:52.020 that they really believe in and it has allowed people to pay bills that maybe they struggled
00:22:56.660 paying before it's allowed uh them to have some kind of financial independence some kind of cushion
00:23:03.220 maybe their husband you know lost his job especially right now anything that has to do with direct
00:23:10.020 sales and recruitment can be very helpful for those who are facing unemployment in this pandemic so
00:23:16.820 i also think it's important for the side who doesn't like mlms for you to be sensitive as well
00:23:22.340 and realize that this can be an honest way for people to make money and just because someone is selling
00:23:27.860 something doesn't mean that they are inherently bad or deceptive or manipulative if that makes sense
00:23:35.460 i hope it does so on monday we will be talking about another controversial topic i know we're kind
00:23:41.380 of taking a break from like coronavirus and news even though i have a lot of news that i want to talk
00:23:47.700 about uh the things that you guys typically ask me about are things like this and you guys are the
00:23:53.300 executive producers of my show and i i don't know if i've ever told you that before but that's something
00:23:58.980 i say a lot behind the scenes and think a lot that my audience is the executive producer of my show
00:24:03.620 i talk about the things that you guys ask me to talk about not necessarily how you guys want me
00:24:09.220 to talk about them although i think i do but i'm saying i don't you guys don't dictate the things
00:24:14.260 that i actually say but you dictate the subjects that i talk about you've been asking me to talk about
00:24:19.220 mlms but you've also been asking me if i can talk about in vitro fertilization and birth control
00:24:26.500 and that is what we are going to talk about on monday so as much as i have to say when it comes to
00:24:31.860 politics and things like that um and all the things that are going on in the news because i really do
00:24:38.180 you guys have asked me to address these subjects and i want to make sure that i meet the demands of
00:24:43.860 my wonderful and smart executive producers so on monday it's theology monday but we are going to be
00:24:52.020 talking about i guess kind of a non-theological subject although so many things really are theological
00:24:58.020 without being a part of the actual bible but we are going to be talking about ivf and birth control
00:25:04.500 from a biblical perspective there was a study that came out a couple days ago a news report that was
00:25:11.380 circulating that said that a u.s birth rates are lower than they have ever been an all-time low so i
00:25:18.420 think this conversation is especially pertinent i do want to remind you guys that my book you're not
00:25:25.060 enough and that's okay escaping the toxic culture of self-love is available for pre-order on amazon i
00:25:32.900 would love if you guys pre-ordered and if you do if you pre-order my book uh then you can send your
00:25:40.420 proof of purchase i just forgot the email you can send your proof of purchase to an email address that
00:25:48.340 i will post on instagram and that is posted it is actually posted on instagram on a previous post that
00:25:54.740 i did but you can send your proof of purchase to this email address and you will get an excerpt of
00:26:01.700 my book before the book actually comes out comes out august 11th but if you send this proof of purchase
00:26:07.060 after i find it i'll put it in the description in this podcast how about that you can um send the receipt
00:26:13.780 there and then you can get a sneak peek of the book but we've got lots of fun stuff coming down
00:26:19.700 the pipeline with the book like just a lot of resources a lot of material there's going to be
00:26:24.420 an opportunity for you guys to hear discussion questions coming from me if you join the women's
00:26:30.420 book club on facebook or on instagram so i'm just so excited and it's going to be at a time in august when
00:26:37.300 things are hopefully totally open and i'm going to be able to travel and talk about the book and this
00:26:44.180 has just been such a wonderful labor of love to me i'm so good i'm so excited for you guys to finally
00:26:51.700 have it in your hands so thank you for to all of you also who have already pre-ordered the book
00:26:57.300 that just means it means so much to me i always say that i have the best audience and the smartest
00:27:02.260 audience ever and i truly do um if you haven't subscribed to my youtube channel yet please do
00:27:09.220 that that would mean a lot to me it's ally beth stucky if you love this podcast please feel free
00:27:14.580 to leave me five stars on itunes that helps me out a lot also for those of you who have listened to the
00:27:21.700 very last second of this podcast then you will know something that all the people that dipped out
00:27:26.340 two minutes ago don't but we have a new set for relatable so a brand new beautiful set that is so
00:27:33.540 on brand with relatable you guys are going to love it and i'm going to be in that set starting next
00:27:38.660 week so starting next wednesday these episodes are going to sound and look so wonderful i am so excited
00:27:45.940 so you'll want to subscribe to youtube because then you'll be able to see my new set and i just can't
00:27:51.060 wait okay thank you so much for listening i hope everyone has a wonderful weekend i hope you're in the
00:27:56.020 state where things are opening back up a little bit and you can have some freedom and enjoy this
00:28:01.460 first bit of summer with your family love you guys i will see you guys here on monday