00:02:05.920but I genuinely did want to have a conversation with him
00:02:08.260because I like a lot of what Andy Stanley says.
00:02:11.720I mean, let's just acknowledge that he is an excellent communicator. I think there is a lot
00:02:16.620that we can learn from him when it comes to communication. He might be one of the best
00:02:21.940communicators that I know. His father was a great communicator too. I think that there are many
00:02:27.280pastors that can learn from Andy Stanley's communication style and the way he is able to
00:02:33.780simplify very complex ideas. Not everyone has that skill. Not everyone has that talent.
00:02:39.320Andy Stanley does, and I very much appreciate that. As someone who is always seeking to do
00:02:44.780that myself, to simply and concisely, and well, maybe not concisely, but clearly explain something
00:02:50.060that's complicated, I very much appreciate that about him. However, there are some major theological
00:02:54.980things that I disagree with him on, and one of them is how he talks about the issue, if you will,
00:03:01.980of LGBTQ. Before we actually get into the sermon, let me back up a little bit and explain to you
00:03:10.440why we're talking about this, why he even gave the sermon that he did. There were headlines that
00:03:17.260were published. I first saw it, I think, in the Christian Post that there was a conference that
00:03:22.360Andy Stanley's church, North Point Community Church, major church in Atlanta has campuses
00:03:27.040in different areas, that they would be hosting a conference called the Unconditional
00:03:31.880conference. And the unconditional conference was supposed to be for parents of those who identify
00:03:42.100as LGBTQ. So this was to provide resources for them, community for them in a way that was meant
00:03:51.960to ensure that these parents could maintain or restore relationships with their children.
00:03:57.200The stated purpose was also to make sure that these parents were equipped to show the children, their children, the love of God, the love of Christ.
00:04:07.140It says to build bridges between LGBTQ plus individuals, their families and the church, not in spite of the Bible, but because of the Bible, drawing parents and children into a deeper relationship with each other and vertically with God.
00:04:21.420So this is by Embracing the Journey, which is a ministry that was founded by people named Greg and Lynn McDonald, and they have experiences, we will talk about, Andy Stanley explained, as Christian parents with a son who came out as gay.
00:04:39.960And so their ministry kind of initiated this conference, helped build this conference, and so their mission was also the mission of the Unconditional Conference.
00:04:50.300Now, the reason why this was making headlines was because of some of the people who were
00:04:56.300invited, and I will get into this a little bit more, but some of the people were seen
00:05:03.260Even Greg and Lynn McDonald themselves were seen by many people as controversial because
00:05:08.000they have a son who has come out as gay, and this son is now, I believe, still engaged
00:05:12.980to be married or maybe in what they would call a marriage relationship.
00:05:17.060They have a picture with their entire family, including the fiance on the website of the ministry that says, you know, this is a picture of our family, including our son's fiance.
00:05:27.660And so it caused a lot of people to raise their eyebrows and ask the question, is this couple affirming the LGBTQ lifestyle or not?
00:05:36.540And then someone that people have fewer questions about, but more concerns about was a person
00:05:42.760named Justin Lee, who is in what some would call a gay marriage.
00:06:05.540And so, of course, people looked at some of these speakers, in particular Justin Lee and his partner Brian, and said, well, is this a gay affirming conference? Is Andy Stanley gay affirming? This is a little bit troubling for someone who says that he holds to the definition of biblical marriage.
00:06:26.680And so that's why this was making headlines.
00:06:29.360This is why I originally talked about it.
00:06:31.740There were a couple more speakers that were speaking and then pulled out of the conference
00:07:41.320It's not like we have not seen this coming.
00:07:43.240It's not like we have not seen this coming.
00:07:44.960In the coming days, Andy Stanley is set to host the Unconditional Conference at a campus of North Point Community Church in the metro Atlanta area.
00:07:51.180And the website for the conference bills it as a two-day premiere event, especially designed for parents of, quote, LGBTQ plus children and ministry leaders.
00:07:59.000You'll be equipped, refreshed, inspired as you hear from leading communicators on topics that speak to your heart, soul, and mind.
00:08:07.540And then they promised a, quote, unquote, quieter middle space.
00:08:12.320and moeller says this might appear attractive given the volatility of cultural discourse on
00:08:16.980lgbtq issues and a conference designed to help parents of these children and ministry leaders
00:08:21.360work through these issues and clearly biblical terms would be a welcome development but moeller
00:08:26.200says the advertising for the unconditional conference indicates clearly that this event
00:08:30.260is designed as a platform for normalizing the lgbtq revolution while claiming that the conference
00:08:35.700represents the quieter middle space in truth there is no middle space on these issues and it
00:08:39.700is no longer plausible to claim that such middle space exists. Then he goes on to talk about some
00:08:47.760of these speakers, one of whom I just described to you, Justin Lee, and what he would call his
00:08:53.820husband, Brian Neetzel. Then he also says another major speaker is David Gushy, a prominent
00:08:58.880intellectual who has been honest about his own change of mind on the moral status of LGBTQ plus
00:09:03.160behaviors and relationships. In the definitive edition of his book, Changing Our Mind,
00:09:08.460and subtitled as a landmark call for inclusion of LGBT Christians, he traces his own pilgrimage to
00:09:16.420eager LGBTQ advocacy. So that was another speaker at this event hosted by Andy Stanley and his
00:09:24.600church. And so he is concerned about this. Is this really a middle space? From what we see,
00:09:29.920at least on the roster of speakers, there weren't anyone who would actually represent.
00:09:34.340I don't even know if I would call it the conservative theological position on marriage,
00:09:37.880but just the historic belief of marriage, the biblical definition of marriage.
00:09:44.800It was an affirming conference, at least what we could see from the website.
00:09:51.020And then Albert Miller goes on to say that Andy Stanley is one of the most influential pastors in the United States,
00:09:58.980and that he goes through some of the controversies that he's been embroiled in over the years
00:10:03.200based on some of the things that he has said.
00:10:06.900one of the quotes that I thought was interesting that Albert Mueller pulled was, if your theology
00:10:10.720gets in the way of ministry, like if there's somebody you can't minister to because of your
00:10:14.140theology, you have the wrong theology. I think that's an important quote to remember as we look
00:10:20.040at some of the things that Andy Stanley said in his sermon that we're about to get into.
00:10:26.720And so Albert Mueller goes on to say that, you know, maybe we can give the benefit of the doubt.
00:10:31.220Maybe the conference won't actually be affirming. Maybe it's something totally different than
00:10:36.720it's being advertised, but that would be a really big change from what we are actually seeing at
00:10:42.020the website. So the sermon that Andy Stanley preached is in response to this article. It's
00:10:49.560in response to this article. So we'll get in to that as well as what actually happened at the
00:10:55.120conference, which happened before Andy Stanley gave his sermon responding to this Albert Mueller
00:10:59.820article. Andy Stanley was not happy about this article by Al Mueller, so he responded to it,
00:11:05.200But he responded to it after this unconditional conference that Al Mohler wrote his article
00:33:56.680I'm going to go my own way, do my own thing.
00:33:59.180As all of us sinners, by the way, have done at one point, as all of us did before Christ.0.57
00:34:04.900But this, Andy Stanley says, is supposed to be equipping and encouraging to Christian parents
00:34:08.960that this is the best outcome that Christian parents can hope for, that their children
00:34:13.160profess to love a God whose parameters and boundaries and definitions that they reject
00:34:16.800and rebel against. Again, not encouraging for Christians who believe that God is wiser and1.00
00:34:24.900better and more compassionate and that his ways actually have a purpose. And therefore,1.00
00:34:29.040the longing of their hearts is for their children to know and to follow that God with their whole
00:34:33.760lives, as difficult as it may be. He says that they can offer a perspective for straight parents
00:34:40.320on what their gay kids in church are thinking. I have no doubt about that. But you know what?
00:34:45.360So can other Christian men and women who decided not to reject God and his word, but instead to
00:34:50.620abide by it. And I just think about what about some of the incredible guests that I've had on
00:34:57.680this show I've had the privilege of talking to. I think of Laura Perry. She was a maternity leave
00:35:02.720episode, she wandered, as you heard probably in her testimony, so far from the Lord and her0.72
00:35:09.880parents while she transitioned, quote unquote, to try to be a man. And then because of God's
00:35:15.360kindness and because of her parents' relentlessness in praying for her and speaking truth to her,
00:35:22.000she was brought back to a place of repentance and restoration. Go listen to that testimony
00:35:27.460if you haven't already. Her parents never wavered. They never compromised. And because of that,
00:35:34.000because they continued to tell her God's word and to tell her the gospel and to tell her God's truth
00:35:38.900while also being kind to her and loving her and all of their church friends did, she was brought
00:35:43.640back to a place of repentance. I think of Christopher Yuan, whom we've had on this podcast
00:35:48.940a couple times. He's a former drug dealer. He was reveling at the time in the promiscuous gay
00:35:53.440lifestyle. He was saved in prison thanks to the Holy Spirit and the prayers of his newly converted1.00
00:35:58.300Christian parents. He is not married to a woman now, but has, by God's grace, chosen to live a
00:36:04.600life of sexual purity that honors the Lord. The same is true of Beckett Cook. Or what about Rosaria
00:36:09.780Butterfield? And I'll get to her response to all this in a second. She is the former queer theory
00:36:14.380professor, former lesbian, who tried every way she could, you know, 20 plus years ago to unite0.93
00:36:22.180her homosexuality with her Christianity, but the Holy Spirit, because this is what he does,
00:36:28.820he wouldn't let her do it. Because when Christ takes over, he takes over everything. Over time,0.95
00:36:36.600he kills sin, he kills sin, and he kills sin, and he sanctifies, and he molds, and he changes. He's
00:36:44.340a king taking dominion over your heart, and your mind, and your soul, and yes, your sexuality.
00:36:50.860and this is just as true in all of us as it is true with people who wrestle with same-sex
00:36:57.860attraction or gender confusion. We are all being rid of our sin. We are all being called to die
00:37:03.000to self. We are all called to repentance. We are all called sexual purity. That doesn't mean that
00:37:07.400we will never sin again. That doesn't mean that we will never have sinful feelings, that we will
00:37:12.620never have sinful attractions. That doesn't mean that we will never be tempted. Of course, that is
00:37:17.480true from now until glory. But Jesus is sanctifying us and helping us to resist sin. That is the
00:37:26.220calling of every single Christian. So he responded to a question, Andy Stanley did, about why he chose
00:37:35.320not to include someone like Rosaria Butterfield at this conference. Why was it only from one
00:37:40.840perspective? Like, why didn't you talk to Christopher Yuan or Breckett Cook or these
00:37:45.220people. Why weren't they invited? Obviously, they've experienced this. And he has a very
00:37:49.180interesting response that I'll get to. So in a public Q&A session, he was asked this. He was
00:37:53.640asked about, I guess, Beckett Cook, Christopher Yuan, Rosaria Butterfield. This is according to
00:37:58.960churchleaders.com. Stanley criticized the three authors claiming that their advice isn't, quote,
00:38:03.440pastoral, adding that they only spoke about the issue from a 30,000-foot view. Stanley explained
00:38:09.400that he decided to reference those three because of the criticism he received for not inviting
00:38:15.120any of them to speak at the conference. Why were they invited? He said, because in my opinion,
00:38:21.020they have nothing helpful to say to parents. Now, if you have heard Christopher Yuan's story,
00:38:29.160you will know that his story is wrapped up in his mom's story, that their testimonies are
00:38:36.460intertwined. I mean, he wrote a book with his mom about this. And I think his mom would be an
00:38:42.240excellent person to share her wisdom. I mean, how she prayed for him and just wanted him so badly
00:38:49.660to repent of his sin and to know Christ and to hear the gospel and to understand it. I think
00:38:55.240that she would offer a lot of wisdom. Beckett Cook also talks a lot about his parents. Now,
00:39:00.140Rosaria Butterfield, she came out later in life, so maybe that's a little bit different, but they
00:39:05.160certainly have a lot of wisdom to share. It's really hard not to think that the only reason
00:39:08.780they weren't invited is because they don't affirm it. I mean, you see that, Andy Stanley, right?
00:39:13.460Like, you see why people would think that? That you only didn't invite them, not because they
00:39:17.420don't have something to say. Of course they have something to say. Of course they have something
00:39:20.360to say. They're Christians who have struggled with same-sex attraction, who all lived actively
00:39:25.720gay lifestyles. Of course they have something to say. Don't you see how people would maybe see0.97
00:39:29.880their exclusion and think, wow, you just didn't want to include them because they're not gay
00:39:34.860affirming. You didn't want to include them because they talk about repentance. Rosaria Butterfield1.00
00:39:41.940had something to say to that. She said this in a podcast with Josh Dawes, the Great Awakening
00:39:52.400podcast. She said this, you just kind of wonder whether any of these people ever took a logic
00:39:57.760class, she added, saying that the teaching presented at the Unconditional Conference was
00:40:01.200based on emotional manipulative analogies, you need to be shepherded by a shepherd who is actually
00:40:06.680doing battle against the forces of darkness, not inviting the forces of darkness into your church
00:40:10.960for tea. No one says it like Rosaria Potterfield. She's so good. I'm here to tell you that there's
00:40:18.100only one person who doesn't want people to repent of their sin, and that's Satan. Well, I would say
00:40:24.980there's a lot of people, and I'm sure she would agree with this, there's a lot of people who don't
00:40:28.160want you to repent of your sin, but it's all motivated by Satan. Absolutely. Butterfield went
00:40:34.560on to rebut the idea that the Unconditional Conference offered anything that could be
00:40:38.440commended, saying, you can't wrench some kind of a good application from a Satan-drenched theology.
00:40:46.040Like, she is so, she's so sharp. Go back and listen to my conversation with her, where she
00:40:51.820refutes some of the things said by people who use pronoun politeness, who say that it's respectful
00:41:00.660to use the preferred pronouns of someone, even though you know that they are not biologically
00:41:04.280accurate. She's just, she's so good. And even her original response to Jen Hatmaker, when Jen
00:41:10.000Hatmaker came out as gay affirming back in 2014 or 15, and her response to Rosaria Butterfield's
00:41:15.180response in the gospel coalition. She's so good. She's so good at just so clearly explaining the
00:41:23.440gospel. And then there was a pastor and author, Sam Albury, is same-sex attracted but adheres to
00:41:30.240a traditional sexual ethic. Here's in part what he said for Christianity Today, which I was proud0.86
00:41:34.160of Christianity Today for publishing this because it's not normal. The problem at the unconditional
00:41:38.660conference is not just that inappropriate speakers were platformer, that Stanley gave at best mixed
00:41:43.840messaging about sexual sin. North Point as a whole is implicated. So he just goes on to talk about
00:41:52.220how it was completely unbiblical conference that affirmed sin rather than calling people
00:41:58.220to repentance, which is the most loving thing that you can possibly do. Okay, here is another
00:42:07.440snippet of what Andy Stanley said, and I'll respond to it. Many are convinced that traditional
00:42:11.400marriage is not an option for them. So they commit to living a chaste life, an old fashioned word.
00:42:19.300And for many men and women who put their faith in Christ, they just decide, okay, I'm just going to
00:42:24.640buckle down. I'm just going to, I'm just going to bear down. I'm just going to be by myself. I'm not
00:42:28.400going to have family. I'm going to be sexually pure. And many, many, many, many do that for
00:42:33.500long seasons of time. And some, for some it's, it's, it's their whole life. But for many,
00:42:38.860That is not sustainable. And so they choose a same-sex marriage, not because they're convinced
00:42:49.180it's biblical. They read the same Bible we do. They chose to marry for the same reason
00:42:54.940many of us did. Love, companionship, and family.
00:43:01.320okay it's just not sustainable and so they choose to get married i think he's right that they choose
00:43:11.380to get married or what they would call marriage again i i say that because only god can define
00:43:17.080marriage and god defines marriage only one way and that is between one man and one woman so
00:43:21.240i know it's kind of the colloquial term that we use and legally um it is deemed a marriage but
00:43:26.820it is not by the real definition of marriage. So it's a union, they have a wedding, they celebrate
00:43:31.780it, but it is not by God's definition, the God who created marriage, actually a marriage. And so
00:43:37.000he says that they choose quote unquote marriage for companionship and love. And I absolutely
00:43:40.880believe that's true. I do not think it's true that they don't think it's biblical. I absolutely
00:43:45.500think that people who say I'm a Christian and I'm going to embrace the gay lifestyle,
00:43:49.480that they do try very hard to reconcile those two things. And that there are many, many speakers,
00:43:53.580many of whom speak at the unconditional conference, that are willing to tell them,
00:43:56.920yes, these two things can go together. They can be reconciled. I take such issue with what he says
00:44:03.260here that it is not sustainable. Repentance from sin is not sustainable? What's the point of any of
00:44:11.580this? This is the one sin that Jesus is not powerful enough to sanctify you of? This is
00:44:20.440the one sin that if you struggle with this sin, Jesus is going to let go of your hand. He's not
00:44:25.980going to protect you. He's not going to help you. That the Holy Spirit is really powerful, but not
00:44:29.840powerful enough to help you from acting upon your feelings of same-sex attraction. That God is not
00:44:38.780strong enough for that. That God's omnipotence is limited by a man being attracted to a man
00:44:46.380or a woman thinking that she is a man, what kind of God is that? What kind of Holy Spirit is that
00:44:54.460that is not strong enough to sustain you as you are tempted in your sexuality? How sad.
00:45:01.320That's not good news, Andy Stanley. That's not good news. It's not good news if there is a sin
00:45:08.180that the Holy Spirit cannot protect me from, cannot convict me of, and cannot help me resist
00:45:15.080if there is a sin out there that is stronger than God, then what's the point of all of this?
00:45:22.120Like, is that the gospel? Is that the gospel? That Jesus died for some of your sins? That
00:45:27.080you can die to yourself almost? That Jesus could almost help you resist sin, but not this one?
00:45:37.400it's not good news it's really bad news but it goes back to his erroneous belief
00:45:45.220his unbiblical belief that you are your feelings that you are who you're attracted to
00:45:51.740and you're not that you're not he says multiple times that if someone's same-sex attraction
00:45:58.540that their same-sex attraction is who they are but this is a secular definition of same-sex
00:46:05.540attraction. Never does the Bible say that our desire, that our feelings, that who we're attracted
00:46:10.480to is some immutable, irresistible identity, a central part of who we are that must be placed
00:46:17.700on a prominent spot in our life. That is not biblical. That is a secular, psychological idea
00:46:23.760that our desires, that our thoughts, our feelings, that our wanting, that our attractions are who we
00:46:30.940are. That's how we get these terms like gender identity or sexual orientation. The world believes
00:46:37.360that. The world believes that what you feel and whom you want is who you are. And the Bible
00:46:44.120categorically rejects that idea, rejects the idea that same-sex attraction is somehow more a part of
00:46:50.160your core identity than other kinds of sinful attractions or other kinds of thoughts and
00:46:55.620desires. Stanley, he says, and I'll actually play the clip of him saying this, but I want to say
00:47:03.420this first. He says that this is a category in and of itself, that this is the one thing, I guess,
00:47:10.900that Christ cannot help you resist. Dr. Michael Brown, he tweeted about an interaction that he
00:47:18.360had with Andy Stanley. And he asked Andy Stanley, is all same-sex behavior a sin? And Dr. Michael
00:47:27.740Brown said that he will not say that. He will not say that. But rather, he said that sometimes
00:47:34.580ministry preempts clarity. That sometimes ministry, according to Dr. Michael Brown,
00:47:42.920this is what Andy Stanley told him, preempts clarity. That's a problem. That's a problem.
00:47:50.500If you really love people and you love God and you believe that God is good and you believe that God
00:47:55.660is loving, then that means that you believe his word is true. That means that we will trust him
00:48:03.300when he says that homosexuality is a sin, something that we have to resist, something0.99
00:48:09.600that we have to be sanctified of. That means we are going to believe him when he gives us the1.00
00:48:14.480definition of holy sexuality, when he gives us the definition of marriage, that his ways are better
00:48:19.820and higher than ours. What is ministry if it is not that? The truth is, is that people who leave
00:48:30.700the church, people who leave the church because of sexual sin or sexual confusion or gender identity
00:48:37.760who say, I just can't be a Christian. Maybe they say it's because of a bad experience. Maybe they
00:48:42.960say it's because the church isn't affirming. Maybe they say it's because my parents want me to repent
00:48:48.320of my sin and I don't want to, or my mom threw Bible verses at me and I didn't like that.
00:48:52.620And maybe that's part of their unattraction to the church. But they are running, essentially,
00:48:58.760ultimately, fundamentally, away from what all sinners are running away from, from what we all
00:49:05.220ran away from at one point and that is john 14 6 that jesus is the way the truth and the life and
00:49:10.540that no one can come to the father except through him and that following him actually means dying
00:49:14.720to ourself taking up our cross and following christ that is what every single person no
00:49:20.260matter your attraction no matter your temptation no matter your sin struggle is essentially running
00:49:25.460from uh that is it it's not all of the what andy stanley would call clobber verses uh
00:49:34.920it is essentially the gospel. It is the call to repentance. That is what all of us are running
00:49:41.700from when we are running from Christ. Let me play you one last clip from Andy Stanley.
00:49:51.080All of us have felt shame about things we've done. All of us have felt shame about things
00:49:56.720we haven't done, but I bet you've never carried shame about who you are. That's the difference.
00:50:06.600And when people say to me, well, Andy, it's just like, I just stop them. I say, no,
00:50:10.540this is not like anything. This is an is, it is a category all unto itself.
00:50:19.620I got a lot to say to that. The Bible has a lot to say to that. So Andy Stanley says
00:50:23.800that that is, that that's a category in and of itself, that gender confusion or sexual attraction
00:50:30.440is a category in and of itself that no one can relate to it, that no one can compare one sin to
00:50:37.480this sin. This is the sin, the sin that Christ cannot help you or a lot of people resist. It's
00:50:44.700not sustainable to remain in a place of chastity or repentance for many people, he says, many
00:50:51.900Christians, he says, if they struggle with this. This is its own category, but the Bible does not
00:50:57.080put this in its own category. He doesn't. Let's look at 1 Corinthians 6, 9 through 11. And I know
00:51:05.160maybe he would call this a clobber verse, but it is God's word. It's God's word and God is love,
00:51:10.5801 John 4, 8. So what he says is always going to be more loving than what we think.
00:51:14.660so first corinthians 6 9 or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of
00:51:22.280god do not be deceived neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men
00:51:28.660who practice homosexuality nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor revilers nor swindlers
00:51:33.560who inherit the kingdom of god listen here's the good news here's the good news andy stanley do not0.67
00:51:40.140miss this. And such were some of you. Such were some of you. But you were washed, you were
00:51:50.660sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
00:51:57.100I just want to give hope to anyone who was struggling with any sin, whether it's same-sex
00:52:01.160attraction or whether you were confused about your gender, whatever it is, whatever sin you
00:52:06.760struggle with. That this is possible for you. That Christ can save you. That he can save you
00:52:11.760from your sin. That he can bring you to a place of repentance. That you can walk in purity by the
00:52:17.440power of the Holy Spirit. And such were some of you. But you were sanctified. You were justified
00:52:22.340in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. That is possible. And you know
00:52:27.980why I know it's possible? Not just because of this verse, but I look at Ephesians 2. Ephesians 2 says
00:52:32.860that you were dead in sin apart from Christ. You were led by the prince, the power of the air,
00:52:39.180the spirit that is alive and working in the sons of disobedience. You were dead,
00:52:44.100but by grace, you have been saved through faith and were made alive in Christ.
00:52:50.860So you're telling me that this gospel, that this Holy Spirit can make a man who is spiritually dead0.63
00:52:58.840alive by grace through faith but it can't help someone resist same-sex attraction0.89
00:53:03.720like it can raise dead people to life it can save sinners from hell but it cannot sustain0.72
00:53:11.940a person in a place of repentance for the for the rest of their lives
00:53:15.980i don't know about that i don't know about that that doesn't sound like good news to me
00:53:23.040it doesn't sound like the gospel to me
00:53:28.840Now, he talks about a few more things. He talks about a family whose son came out to them, sent Andy Stanley an email that they are very thankful for the resources that North Point gave them.
00:53:42.820And she talks about this is kind of just an aside, but she talks about how she was a NICU nurse and how she saw babies who had ambiguous genitalia and that that has made her feel a lot more understanding for people who struggle with gender confusion.
00:53:57.420And the fact, this is actually important because the fact that Andy Stanley brought this up shows, it shows that this woman who wrote this email and Andy Stanley himself, because he read this to his congregation, do not understand. You don't understand what transgenderism is. Has nothing to do with people who are born with ambiguous genitalia, who, by the way, are still male or female. They're still male or female. They're not both. Their insides, it's not, their DNA is not confused.
00:54:22.660these are disorders that have nothing to do with gender identity uh have nothing to do with
00:54:28.480transgenderism that is not what the movement is about that's not what the debate is about that's
00:54:31.940not where the threat comes from that's not where the danger is that's not where the confusion lies
00:54:35.820at all that is a complete red herring that has nothing to do with transgenderism is not part of
00:54:40.660the lgbt and the lgbtq plus okay that is completely different than what people are talking about when
00:54:46.660they are afraid of grown men going into women's bathrooms which absolutely happens of being housed
00:54:51.560in women's prisons and domestic abuse shelters and boys playing against girls in sports and
00:54:57.080children, minors, young women getting their healthy breasts cut off because they think0.93
00:55:01.320they're the opposite sex. Okay. It's not about babies with ambiguous genitalia. So to me,
00:55:07.040that just shows a lot of confusion on the entire issue. And I do think that that matters.
00:55:14.880There's a lot more that I could talk about when it comes to this. There's a lot more that I could
00:55:19.080talk about when it comes to this sermon. He does say, just to give him credit, that they do teach
00:55:25.600that you should live a life of sexual purity, that you should not be having sex before marriage,
00:55:30.580or you should not sexualize relationships outside of marriage. Maybe he could talk to some of the
00:55:36.320people that attend his church who are LGBTQ, who affirm that, and who are living that lifestyle,
00:55:42.040if they also agree with that. Because I haven't seen that. I have not seen someone who was like,1.00
00:55:46.700yeah, I believe that God thinks that gay marriage is holy, and I am also saving all sexuality for
00:55:52.720marriage. I haven't seen that. They typically go together. If you're going to reject something so0.95
00:55:58.140major in the Bible as the definition of marriage, you tend to reject the sexual ethic altogether.1.00
00:56:04.400But he does, I am glad that he teaches that. I'm glad that he teaches that. I'm glad that his
00:56:08.460church teaches that. He does say that marriage is between a man and a woman. That's great.
00:56:12.580that deserves, I think, the entire sermon. I think clarity is so important. He says that
00:56:18.240ministry preempts clarity. I think that clarity is necessary for proper ministry. I mean, in a world
00:56:24.780of chaos and confusion, people are desperate for clarity. We are desperate to know what God's word
00:56:30.580actually says about these very confusing issues. And God is better than us. He's more loving than
00:56:35.360us. Because Andy Stanley is an amazing communicator, I think that he would probably
00:56:39.780appreciate the alliteration that we've been using on Relatable for probably five years,
00:56:44.500plus years now. God's definition of marriage. You could probably say it. I feel like a teacher
00:56:48.840that everyone out there driving, walking, washing your dishes, that you can repeat what I'm or that
00:56:54.280you can tell me what I'm about to say. God's definition of marriage is what? Rooted in
00:56:59.240creation as we see in Genesis 1. It is reiterated throughout scripture as we see in, for example,
00:57:04.800honor your father and mother. It is representative of Christ and the church, as we read so beautifully
00:57:11.580in Ephesians 5, and therefore it is reflective of the gospel. The Bible starts with the marriage
00:57:16.180and ends with a marriage, the marriage between Adam and Eve and the marriage between Christ and
00:57:21.580his church. That matters. It's not just a verse in Leviticus. It's not just a verse in Romans 1.
00:57:26.680It's not just a verse in 1 Corinthians 6. All of those verses absolutely do matter. They tell us
00:57:32.480what not to do, but actually God paints a beautiful picture of what we are to do.0.71
00:57:37.660A union between a man and a man cannot reflect Christ in the church. Therefore, it's not a
00:57:41.620marriage. It's not a marriage between the bridegroom and the bride. Those gender designations0.63
00:57:47.340are purposeful. They actually have meaning. They have eternal and spiritual value.
00:57:52.720That is what we should be teaching people because that's what God created. And again,
00:57:56.580God is love. We are not, we cannot out love God, Auntie Stanley. You can't out compassion God.
00:58:02.060you can't out goodness him you can't out empathy him the god who is love also created us male and
00:58:09.340female the only loving thing that we can do is to affirm that over and over again and platforming
00:58:14.680people that say yes you can be a christian and actively rebel against god and his design that
00:58:20.400is not loving that is not christ-like ministry i think that you probably get it right in a lot of
00:58:25.420different areas but this is a big one i think i think in a lot of ways you have gotten wrong
00:58:31.080that's what i have to say about that i do just want to encourage you guys go out and see the
00:58:36.180blind this is the real story of phil and k robertson how they came to christ and you've
00:58:42.220heard him tell his testimony on my show you've probably heard him on his show uh the unashamed
00:58:46.820podcast they're amazing people i i love how phil robertson shares the gospel it is so clear and so
00:58:53.520simple so compelling and their story is really amazing their testimony is incredible go out
00:58:58.500support this movie. It's a great way to just send a message that we want these kinds of God
00:59:04.220glorifying projects, movies. So go to blazetv.com slash the blind. You can buy it today for $19.99.
00:59:12.280That's blazetv.com slash the blind. All right. Thanks guys so much for listening and watching.