In part one of our conversation, we discuss the spiritual crisis at the heart of modern culture, the invisible war they believe is shaping society, and why true freedom begins with Christ. In this conversation we explore how those ideas can be put into practice, and what it means to live faithfully in the modern world.
00:00:19.000Hello there, you awakening wonder sex, for joining me today for Stay Free with Russell Brand.
00:00:22.000Today I'm talking to Greg Pye and Vernon Lynch, the authors of The Voice of the Heart, a book exploring how Christian principles can help people navigate the challenges of modern life.
00:00:32.000In part one of our conversation, we discuss the spiritual crisis at the heart of modern culture, the invisible war they believe is shaping society, and why true freedom begins with Christ.
00:00:43.000In this conversation, we explore how those ideas can be put into practice and what it means to live faithfully in the modern world.
00:00:52.000I sometimes feel self conscious and like I'm not doing an effective job when I use all manner of actually what I will call Christian vocabulary, whether it's Satan or Lucifer or sometimes even, I don't know, sanctification.
00:01:08.000Like, you know, like a lot of it, a lot of the language don't seem right to me.
00:01:14.000Like it's institutional, dead language.
00:01:18.000So, how are you saying with Voice of the Heart and with your other communicative?
00:01:24.000And I suppose you'd have to say, your ministry means.
00:01:30.000It's not like you want to mask it, but I guess every generation and every age requires its own apologetics and appropriate image systems that resonate with the people that are hearing the message.
00:01:43.000No point talking about shepherds and seeds in an age of vibration, frequency, Wi Fi, interconnectivity, 5G.
00:02:00.000So that's wonderful that you asked that, Russell, because one of the books I've been working on as a follow up to the many that are out there on this framework is called Words of the World, which is no wonder that the English language is sort of the universal language today because it's got so much ambiguity.
00:02:18.000And that, again, makes it easy for the enemy to capitalize.
00:03:29.000So that's one aspect of understanding.
00:03:32.000So before we get into like, Vocabulary, we have to understand that we get in the way of our own progress in this war.
00:03:40.000We become actually soldiers for the enemy over and over again.
00:03:45.000So we got to take ourselves out of that position to make ourselves a warrior.
00:03:49.000So, understanding the map of the systems, the 12 systems, which, by the way, relate to the metaphor of the tree, there's the root systems, which are family dynamics, education, and religion.
00:04:03.000That's where pretty much your whole identity is formed before you can even crawl.
00:04:07.000And then there are the trunk systems, which, if whatever's in the soil, is going to be fed up into the trunk.
00:04:13.000And those systems are media and entertainment, news and information, and technology and data.
00:04:19.000They just amplify the poisons that were in the soil.
00:05:25.000When I was really young, this is, I'm going to again date myself.
00:05:30.000My grandfather used to smoke, he was a chain smoker.
00:05:34.000He'd smoke these, and I lived with him.
00:05:36.000He smoked these Raleigh cigarettes, and Raleigh cigarettes used to have a coupon on the back, and you'd collect the coupons and you'd put them in a book, and then you could go in the catalog and buy toys.
00:05:48.000So I would encourage now, here's a five year old, a six year old saying, Grandpa, Come on, smoke one more pack of cigarettes, please, so I can get that walkie talkie.
00:05:59.000And we know, like, just to stay on tobacco for a second, how tobacco was infiltrated into the theater and the movies, and it became a major infiltration into our health and wellness.
00:06:30.000The middle 16 chapters are hard to get through because it's dense.
00:06:35.000But when you read that, you're like, oh my goodness, I see that the enemy's in every corner, whoever that enemy is, but it's in every corner of society.
00:06:47.000And it starts to reset your clock a little bit because how many of us hear people still to this day, those Democrats, those Republicans, those, and they're not looking at the system.
00:07:02.000They're not looking at the contagion in the system to understand what the system is doing and how it's oppressing them, how it's separating them from their purpose, peace, and passion, which I call the command centers of our life.
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00:08:17.000Occasionally, Greg, I get these moments of startling clarity.
00:08:24.000But even prior to that, I've had a, I've long understood that we're dealing with a systemic contagion.
00:08:33.000Whether that's at the parochial, most local, actually anecdotal level of watching my son.
00:08:43.000Looking for videos of a T Rex and how quickly that permutates into sort of godlessness and endless and baffling variety and overstimulation.
00:08:57.000Like a counterfeit mind, an aggregating mind where almost the world's intelligence is being directed towards the capture and control of attention.
00:09:11.000I think of that C.S. Lewis quote that.
00:09:14.000He doesn't necessarily want us to be involved in energetic evil and orgies and self destruction.
00:09:21.000He'd be just as happy to have us sort of slumped in a chair, staring listlessly at the last embers of a fire fading out.
00:09:31.000And I, everything that I go, everything you go into, a children's hospital, an airport, a fast food restaurant, a TV show, a sporting event, it's, Everywhere it's everywhere, you can almost sense and feel Solomon's despair.
00:10:10.000Now, where I like, see, I guess even though I've come to Christ late in life, I've had a brilliant education.
00:10:19.000Prior, not just because of high exposure to what I would call the empire's spoils and methods, having been, in a sense, a kind of a participant in it.
00:10:32.000I think what I've noticed actually is that any, I've not investigated the point of it being everyone, but in general, I've noticed that if someone is successful in the culture, this could be in entertainment or academia or politics or finance, is because they are either a representative of, A demonstration of or conduit of empire power.
00:10:56.000So, to take it to a personal level, when I was most famous, the values that I was espousing were individualism, the pursuit of pleasure, a kind of spirituality that weren't really costly, didn't involve certainly, it didn't involve kenosis or sort of a genuine service or sort of real principles and virtues.
00:11:18.000It certainly had, I can say, without fear of contradiction and knowing that I'm being honest.
00:11:58.000My point is that book Sapiens is a very brilliant book, but that leads you to the conclusion that God is not real, that AI is inevitable, and that you should just yield to this sort of new global, fully immersive system that's coming, and there's nothing we can do about it.
00:12:15.000And how I had this encounter, I wrote about it actually in my own book, which is available now.
00:12:22.000I talked about like a period I was booked to interview him when he was promoting a sequel or a subsequent book, at least.
00:12:30.000And we did it at a school, like the event took place at a school in front of like kids, probably, I don't know, 12, 13, 14 year old kids.
00:12:36.000And like Yuval Noharari sort of just told these kids, and like it was all being filmed and content was being made, you know, you lot, you best learn to code.
00:12:44.000And because the future belongs to AI, and in the future, this is how it's going to be, and that's how it's going to be.
00:12:50.000And I sort of remember sort of like really feeling myself going off piste in the moment.
00:12:54.000I went, well, all these kids, you know, I weren't a Christian myself yet, but I was like, well, they couldn't, They like actually, it's their world and they could fight it and they could oppose it and they could defy it.
00:13:09.000They're not just sort of there to be threshed.
00:13:11.000And, you know, and then sort of, it kind of over time, I began to understand that, gosh, man, there's this guy called, this is a good way of describing this.
00:14:12.000That's why, you know, because I've worked in so many at high levels of so many sectors of the economy.
00:14:17.000And again, by the grace of God, I unfortunately had a catbird seat to so many of the, you know, how these systems are really manipulated, if you will, or infiltrated, as I say.
00:14:30.000For example, the gate, you know, so in finance, you have people scrambling around all day talking about Bitcoin or talking about their 401k.
00:14:39.000But no one's talking about the game of Monopoly, for example.
00:14:45.000See, Monopoly is a great game because at the end of the game, you take everything, you put it back in the box, and then you start over the next time.
00:14:52.000But imagine if you play and then you pick up the next time with the same assets and money that you had the prior day.
00:15:01.000That's the world we live in in economics.
00:15:04.000They've got us focusing on the one of the 10 horses when it's really the You know, it's the casino, it's the house that's winning.
00:15:13.000The game of Monopoly, in other words, our economy never resets.
00:15:17.000Our economy is continuously barbelling, and no one wants to talk about that structural dilemma.
00:15:24.000Another example, here's something I might again date myself.
00:15:27.000You know, I was in the cable business, television, started a couple of networks, game show network, and then more music TV.
00:15:34.000And so what I remember is remember when we had television was terrestrial and it was free?
00:16:58.000Then the Torah, hundreds of laws, no good.
00:17:02.000Now, billions of pages of laws, all designed to be broken and benefit someone who is writing them.
00:17:10.000But here's the good news for us Christians, and hopefully those who may come, hopefully as a result of this show, is that Jesus gave us two that are the easiest in the world to follow love the Lord and love thy neighbor.
00:17:25.000Those are the central nucleus of the voice of the heart and of our existence.
00:18:02.000They're not talking about the fact that, you know, for example, Brittany Kaiser of Cambridge Analytica, who I've worked with, she said at the time, Facebook was collecting 5,000 data points per person.
00:18:13.000Now it's got to be, we make 35,000 plus decisions a day.
00:18:33.000Not a whole lot of practical intelligence.
00:18:36.000If you can get a little artificial, take it.
00:18:38.000But here's the real danger the real danger is that you, your entire DNA composition is being digitized.
00:18:47.000And I always looked at the way God created us is that's actually, because we, Bern and I created something along with a gentleman, Sean Coe, called Nova, Know Your Value.
00:18:58.000It was about creating a marketplace for our digital identity.
00:19:01.000Because here's what's so cool about our digital identity if we own it and we control it, All boats rise in that economies around the world, third world countries, because guess what?
00:19:31.000One, yes, it was twice the tablets because the first time when he came down, they'd made that golden calf.
00:19:36.000And how the golden calf is made is every, he just popped.
00:19:40.000Off for a minute to go and get the laws of God because I couldn't be bothered to listen.
00:19:44.000But how the golden calf is made is the gold of the individual, the individual identity, the individual personal identity is given to amalgamate a false God.
00:19:55.000A false god is given from the individual gold.
00:19:57.000This is happening again now with the digital identity.
00:20:00.000We're all contributing our original gold to the counterfeit god, to the counterfeit signature, to the signature that's as unique as the DNA strands.
00:20:11.000Your own particular imprature of God's glory is now being replicated by the great deceiver, by the great imitator.
00:20:19.000Two, also, is that with your point about cable, they've done that exact thing again on Amazon Prime.
00:20:28.000Because, okay, I'll get all this stuff on Amazon Prime.
00:21:02.000If you attempt, the only way out is I think through total surrender to him and then to replicate garden, to create new garden, to create new garden, walled nature, walled nature.
00:21:17.000Then we can oppose the serpent, oppose the serpent.
00:21:21.000Just a quick break to tell you guys about Polymarket, where of course you can bet on real world events like the World Cup.
00:21:26.000Of course, England are out pretty much as Polymarket predicted.
00:21:29.000So now it's just the final and they have Spain as the favourite.
00:21:34.000Honestly, I don't care because England are out.
00:21:36.000So go on, bet on this and other real world events with Polymarket.
00:21:42.000I'll tell you both because you're obviously interested in the same things that we're interested in.
00:21:46.000Is that with these two, in a sense, what the glory here and the great opportunity might be, that people are again, there's a revival, something's happening, isn't it?
00:21:58.000Now, a lot of people are talking about Christ again, like in the political sphere, even.
00:22:04.000So that means that we can use the book, the literature, and the truth of Christ.
00:22:11.000His glory will be revealed, as he himself said.
00:22:13.000You don't need to worry about false prophets because the name's getting used anyway.
00:22:16.000So, what we can do, I think, is with these two ideas one, our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus, and two, democracy we can use these ideas that most people agree, not most, but enough agree are correct, to bring about using the very technology that, say, in my country is even more.
00:22:35.000Not the technology, but its exploitation is even more advanced than what you're describing.
00:22:46.000They've just introduced, via, of course, the legitimate concerns that people have around protecting their children from pornography and all forms of predation.
00:22:56.000They've introduced laws that ultimately mean that everyone's IP address will be tethered to a physical identity, precisely because the government wants the opportunity to partner with corporations to continue the process that's already.
00:23:09.000But in so doing, they're acknowledging that this technology is viable, viable.
00:23:14.000And if they can use the charge in this direction to impose pressure on us, then we can use it to create liberty and freedom.
00:23:23.000So, my question is this you know, there is, as you already touched upon, no point in quibbling about the various flaws and assets of different political entities or any of the occupants of the political space.
00:23:34.000But there is a great value in having a political conversation about new systems, new systems where he has told us.
00:23:42.000How he wants us to live our lives, as you've said, to love God with all your heart and to love your neighbor.
00:23:47.000On this basis, I think we can use the technology that is now becoming manifest, and all that is newly manifest, if correctly guided by the unviolable principles of his kingdom, can be utilized to prepare for this merging, for this coming together of the two kingdoms that we are told is happening.
00:24:08.000And I can't see how it could be that far off because I don't know how much lower we can possibly go.
00:24:14.000And, like it does, I agree with you too, Greg, that the scene is set.
00:24:21.000So, and of course, it's outside of time.
00:24:23.000It's clear from the images that are in sort of the early scripture and the last book of the Bible that this is sort of something that's taking place in a dream space, in the prima materia, in the network, in the sort of what I'd like to envisage as a kind of infinite inner and outer and extra century sort of honeycomb web, a sort of a geometrically perfect yet natural inner space, a kind of a network.0.96
00:24:48.000The Hindus have an image system of a kind of a net.0.70
00:24:51.000Within which we are all nodes, to which we all have access.0.58
00:24:55.000My sense is that when you're in Christ, you can participate as co heirs and co creators in operating it.
00:25:01.000Not if you are oriented towards self, because then you're in the separate circuit of the deceiver.
00:25:08.000But if you're in Christ, then you are co heirs with Him and co creators.
00:25:13.000So even though it is by grace alone that we are saved, we still have a function and a purpose.
00:25:17.000And surely our purpose is precisely what I think we're pursuing here and that we have to advance, continue to advance.
00:25:23.000Now, Is the creation of systems that make straight the way, that bring the mountains, make the road smooth.
00:25:57.000And political is particularly important because it's one of the strongholds for the enemy of late.
00:26:07.000There used to be a time when, I always used to say, if we can't self govern, how are we going to ever outsource it to anybody?
00:26:19.000But I do believe we can govern if we understand what governance even should mean in what I call, and you've been kind of Touching on this, Russell, gardenism.
00:27:12.000But the truth of the matter is, we've gotten very complacent.
00:27:15.000We've gotten really comfortable, especially as developed market populations.
00:27:25.000And it's interesting when you travel, and I know you've traveled.
00:27:28.000To parts of the world that are less developed.
00:27:30.000There's actually a parable in my book that I wrote that's really heartfelt because there's a certain amount of joy and experience that's still preserved amongst those tribal parts of the world because, again, they're separated from the world.
00:28:17.000Here's the here's part of the problem not everybody is where we are, which is why the voice of the heart was written again, because it meets people where they are.
00:28:28.000It's hard to tell somebody who's just got maybe a $25 million bonus, works on Wall Street, that life, you know, things could be better.
00:28:37.000You might be related to that person, or you might know that person and look at them and say, You know, that Joe never looks happy.
00:28:46.000So I always say there's two types of people.
00:28:47.000There are people who are suffering because they recognize that Christ suffered.
00:28:53.000And so just by recognizing that Christ suffered, that should be suffering to you.
00:28:57.000And then there are people who don't know they're suffering.
00:29:01.000Those are the only two people that exist.
00:29:03.000So bringing people together on this is a very delicate and ambitious process.
00:29:11.000But in my mind, the only potential project worth pursuing.
00:29:18.000Because where we are today, we are only inches from the edge of the cliff.
00:29:23.000Societal mayhem is right around the corner.
00:29:27.000So, whether we want to pursue political solutions or not, they're going to come our way anyway.0.69
00:29:32.000And we're not going to like them the way they come.
00:29:34.000So, we need to take control of the lives we were given.
00:29:39.000And again, that's what this framework is designed to do universally.
00:29:46.000When I say this, you know, Russell, that the voice of the heart is designed, it's a battle cry, but it blows the horn.
00:29:57.000It sounds the alarm and lets people know that there is something systemic that's going on that needs to be addressed.
00:30:03.000We've all been bamboozled on every level.
00:30:07.000All of the systems have been infiltrated.
00:30:18.000But the government is supposed to be upon his shoulders when he returns, right?
00:30:23.000So that means that as we wait for the coming of Christ and we deal with what the enemy is serving up to us on every level and every system, and particularly politics,
00:30:38.000that we can believe in a democratic process, but knowing that it can't work to the fullest of It can't work to the best of its ability without being Christ centered.
00:30:54.000So we can vote and we can do all of these great things.
00:30:57.000We could jump up and down, we could protest.
00:31:00.000But what we're doing is just, you know, we're patching a leaky tire.
00:31:07.000So at the end of the day, we need things like the voice of the heart that's going to give us a roadmap.
00:31:14.000Let's start, basically, let's start here in the home.
00:31:19.000Relationships between fathers and sons and mothers and daughters and the parents and their kids as a whole, teaching them a godly way to live their lives, giving them the proper hope, not the hope that the world wants you to have.
00:31:37.000Understanding that we have been programmed on every level and we can shake that off.
00:32:32.000So at the end of the day, I thought about that and I said, okay, I guess he's looking at it from a spiritualist sense and I'm looking at it from a godly manner, a more godly presentation of things.
00:32:48.000And what I see is that I see more of what we're talking about right now, Russell.
00:32:59.000Enlightenment and your discovery of yourself and who the true God really is is almost equivalent to putting on a magic glass.
00:33:31.000He says things to tickle your ears and get people to follow false ideology, moving forward in life, thinking that you're actually doing something good.
00:33:46.000When you're really just spinning your wheels or you're standing on the side of the enemy and you're complicit as a soldier on his side, because as we move forward, dealing with Family, dealing with society's wrongdoings with people, with social differences, racial differences, all the things that we've had to deal with in the past couple of years with people being murdered,
00:34:18.000whether it's a George Floyd thing and those type of protests, without ever digging deep to find out what the truth of the matter is, simply going with mass consciousness in the Give me, what is it, Greg?
00:34:39.000When they had the opportunity to free Jesus and they said, Give us Barabbas.
00:34:44.000That type of mentality permeates our existence, and we need a voice at our heart.
00:34:50.000We need a program that could teach us how to get over the hump, how we can heal ourselves with our family relationships, and then we can have a more godly presentation in our life, and then help others to join us.
00:35:07.000As a believer, Russell, you know that it's our job to share the gospel and to be disciples of the teachings of Jesus Christ.
00:35:15.000And I think that Greg's book and all the things that you talked about, I think Greg's book touches on everything that you spoke about in every area.
00:35:26.000And it's a hefty book for those who are bold enough, and we're supposed to be bold as believers to share the gospel, speak about God, and be willing to.
00:35:38.000To turn the camera on ourselves or look at ourselves in the mirror and know what we need to do better as well, because we're supposed to be living examples.
00:35:48.000Christ was an example for us, and we're supposed to be examples for the ones that we want to disciple and plant seeds with the hopes that others are led to the Lord.
00:36:00.000I don't know if what I'm saying is clear, but there's clearly a systemic problem.
00:36:07.000We live in Babylon, Babylon, the Babylonian system is the entire world.
00:36:12.000So, some people I know that practice different faiths, they want us, well, we have to leave here.
00:36:39.000And the franchise is really an on ramp, not.
00:36:44.000So, I'm not going to impose my faith on anybody ever.
00:36:47.000It's an on ramp for someone to be curious about what their faith is.
00:36:53.000See, the objective was always just to get people to look in the mirror, see that they aren't who they were meant to be, and then ask the question, Who was I meant to be?
00:37:04.000And then to follow the lead on that particular motion.
00:37:10.000The children's series, 30 books that mirror chapter for book.
00:37:14.000With the voice of the heart are designed again, secular stories.
00:37:20.000They're designed to awaken four to eight year olds to this very thing, everything that we talked about in this conversation today, which is interesting because there isn't anything like that in the world that exists today to expose the war and the enemy.
00:37:35.000But we don't do it, we contextualize it, we don't talk in those terms.
00:38:06.000But here's what's interesting The Backwards Berries opens where Sapling is witnessing all these plants, vegetables, everybody's running like mad, and he can't figure out why.
00:38:17.000And he finds out because there are these really electrifying berries that everybody wants.
00:38:24.000Like everything else in this world, you know, tantalizing.
00:39:13.000So that mind, that remember, I always said in this conversation, it's about nuance.
00:39:18.000That subtle nuance of a parent awakening, a child awakening, that the world may not everything is all gumdrops, starts to lead them down a path of separating themselves from the world, from the enemy, and ultimately on a pathway, hopefully, to the foot of the cross.
00:39:39.000And it's a good place for us to wrap up today.
00:39:41.000Thank you very much for taking the time, Greg and Vernon, for explaining Voice of the Heart and the series of materials that are available in the universe of content that you are creating.
00:39:56.000I've sensed a lot of alignment and familiarity, alliance, and fellowship with the principles, obviously, because we're all followers of Christ and we're all finding ways to.
00:40:12.000I mean, like, you can't, when you read the New Testament, there's Mark's sort of breathless and urgent focus on events.
00:40:22.000There's Matthew's sort of deliberate and diligent explaining and chronicling Luke as a kind of historian.
00:40:32.000I mean, obviously, I'm being reductive because I'm talking about the story of God on earth as a man and John's sort of intimacy, mysterious intimacy.
00:40:42.000And, um, Then Paul, man, you know, like the way that sort of Paul's sort of articulate, brilliant, sort of faithful, I want to say, spirited legalism in the correct way, in so much as in Acts, he has to encounter the system and fight the system in real time using the system's language.
00:41:10.000And all of it, you know, you can feel him, you can feel his silhouette and his shape, our Lord moving throughout it.
00:41:18.000Curiously, this is how he came to me in so much as in that instant, illustrated here.
00:41:26.000Like this cross is made of flies, and it's before I sort of fully understood Beelzebub as Lord of the Flies.
00:41:32.000The moment where he came, it was not like flies.
00:41:35.000That's kind of I sort of added that because of C.S. Lewis's kind of the flies on his back, you know, that he knew about the like he could feel the flies on his back as the universe was being created.
00:41:49.000It was like something happened in my gut that felt like sort of the particles of the cross coming together, like the shape of the cross already existed in me and was waiting for something to happen.
00:42:03.000So, what I'm saying is that all of us will find our correct form.
00:42:07.000When you were describing, when you were describing Greg, you were saying, like, you know, like we're sort of caged, that we're caged.
00:42:17.000And I've often had this sort of image system that we're.
00:42:20.000Farmed, or we're in a zoo, we're not in the correct environment.
00:42:23.000It's when you were talking about like people, like in less condensed what was the phrase you used?
00:42:28.000Developed market populations, like that.
00:42:32.000We're in a zoo, we're in a farm, we're being farmed.
00:42:36.000And actually, when you actually, if you consider this image of like what exists, is disrupted.
00:42:42.000You use this sort of noise for your children's version of this information.
00:42:46.000That the stimulants, if you think of it in a kind of like rice resonance, they Create a negative mandala, the stimulant around you all the time.
00:42:58.000You can't get into the spirit because all around you there's pleasure, there's fear, there's disruption.
00:43:05.000Like in an urban environment or an environment where you're accessing a lot of media, all of those toxins, that toxicity, you can't be in the pool.
00:43:15.000You can't be in the clear pool where you would feel Him, where you'll be able to abide with Him and indeed be yoked with Him.
00:43:23.000And in this yoking, we can be in a circuit, like a sort of an open, living flow with Him or the sort of collapse.
00:43:31.000Control that, as you again said, Greg, on page four freedom, freedom on page 11, you are shackled, indentured, and owned.
00:43:41.000You know, but most people don't read the small print, man.
00:43:45.000That was, um, that was, uh, yeah, it was a good conversation, and I'd love to stay connected.
00:46:34.000God always presents himself to us as man in the human situation, he does not come to us divinely as God.0.99
00:46:42.000We would not kill the Lord of glory, but the helpless, ordinary man, this shabby disturber of our peace and complacency, we must dispose of.
00:47:35.000This pagan local governor is being confronted because of Christ's wisdom and because, indeed, of some of the things the Pharisees, those that want him killed, are saying.0.52
00:50:02.000Is there a truth, your truth, my truth, our subjectivity?
00:50:05.000The claim Christ makes is that there's an ultimate essential reality.
00:50:08.000This is very much that John's gospel is alive with this Christ that talks about before the beginning of the world, I am, before Abraham, I am, like a Christ that's there at the essence of creation.
00:50:20.000See, when we're dreaming, Laura, about whether it's Nicholas Lindhurst or some of the, you know, because you did tell me the whole more chilling aspects of the dream, all of the characters and participants in your dream are the lexicon of your own intimate vocabulary.
00:50:34.000If you know a person well, then you, like Joseph of the great patrons of the late book of Genesis, there, you can interpret dreams because if you know the person, you know what an umbrella means to them, or a speedboat, or an encounter with this person from their past.
00:50:52.000You know their personal lexicon, their personal vocabulary.
00:50:56.000But all these avatars, these objects, these signifiers, these signs are bubbling up from some primordial and protean space.
00:51:12.000Even the Buddhist says a vibrant and alive nothing.
00:51:17.000The follower of Christ Jesus says it is a loving creator God that is by his nature relational, that loves you so much that he wants you to be free to do whatever you want.
00:52:15.000You know, maybe there's the Pharisees' truth, there's the truth, my truth, my wife, who happened to be a dream, you know, Pilate's wife had a dream.
00:52:24.000Like, and it's not in John's gospel, but in other gospels, she's freaking him out because she's like, oh, I've had this dream.
00:52:32.000I feel like in that conversation between Pilate and Jesus, there, that for me feels like I can see where some of Shakespeare sounds like that conversation.
00:52:57.000It just the way that the conversation goes, it feels to me like you can see where the works of Shakespeare were inspired by some of the Bible.
00:53:05.000I suppose, really, that what literature was available to Shakespeare, the classics and the Bible, I suppose.
00:53:14.000But for some reason, that little bit, like when you just read it there, just the way the kind of cadence of it, would you say, like the way that it was, and then the ending with the question, feels to me like I could have, you know, that sounds.
00:53:30.000Because Shakespeare, obviously, a great genius, again, to our point earlier about Swordsman, and Shakespeare is like a person that's able to cast a net into the limitless and come back with a great bounty indeed.
00:53:45.000And like that, you understand, oh, this person is describing jealousy or indecision or falling in love better than anyone has.
00:53:54.000But the scripture reaches beyond even the reach of.
00:53:58.000The greatest human genius and into the molecular truths that mean that story can even exist.
00:54:05.000Before, if there was no such thing as meaning, there would be no potential for story.
00:54:12.000There would be no more value in telling a story that is satisfying, fulfilling, conclusive, and contains meaning, or just a story that was a string or sequence of meaningless words.
00:54:22.000Or to put it another way, in arithmetic, an equation a la Goodwill Hunting's one that gets solved on that blackboard.
00:54:30.000Or in music, like, you know, you can go to different cultures all around the world and wherever you go, they will recognize melody versus cacophony.
00:55:05.000It's like the perfect game of football exists and the perfect footballer will explore it.
00:55:11.000Like Michelangelo famously said of his David, I just removed the stone that didn't need to be there and there was David.
00:55:18.000And like, were it a game of chess, like the perfect game of chess, you see it, they see it, the genius sees it.
00:55:25.000No, you don't need that bit, you need that bit.
00:55:27.000And yes, and that means that there is a meaning, there is a deeper truth.
00:55:31.000It's not just, oh, it's just seeing the sort of chaos of hedonism.
00:55:35.000Sort of in a way overwhelms that, you know, because ecstasy can just be an overwhelm, you know, like speaking of someone that's obviously overindulged in pleasure in my life.
00:55:45.000You can, that's, it's a sort of a nihilistic approach to glory, where the self is at the center and the self can't hold true meaning.
00:55:54.000So a human being trying to synthesize God's great glory might try to smother the body in kisses rather than make love with purpose and intention.
00:56:19.000It's the remembrance that we've been here before, but before we were in our mother's womb, he knew us.
00:56:25.000Every time we talk about that, I want to talk about Princess Kagawa, but I actually don't, we don't have time to go into that today, but another time we'll talk about that.
00:56:32.000You're always the boss of everything, you.
00:57:07.000So, what I wanted to do to sort of wrap up really today's Sunday service, because we talked about dreams and that idea of actually that sense of fear that we can feel when we wake up.
00:57:20.000And that night, and that idea that we can pray to God to help us through those dark, dark, I mean, literally physically, those night times, those dark times.
00:57:33.000I wanted to read this, and that I thought could close today's service, if that's okay with you.
00:57:39.000Why are you even pretending that you're not in charge of this?
00:57:42.000Okay, I am going to close today's Sunday service.
00:57:46.000We'll do that, and perhaps you'll do a prayer as well.