The Art of Manliness - Brandon Flowers, Frontman of the Killers, on Family, Faith, and Becoming a Thrasher

00:00:00.000 Hard to believe, but the holiday season is knocking on our door.

00:00:03.300 I'm already starting to take stock of our Christmas decorations to see what needs to be updated

00:00:06.780 because they're just ratty after a decade of service.

00:00:10.360 Wayfair has a huge selection of holiday decor, so that's where I've been looking.

00:00:13.880 First on the list was some new pre-lit garland because the ones we have, they've had it.

00:00:17.780 What I like about buying from Wayfair is that you're not guessing.

00:00:20.560 They've got thousands of products across every style and budget,

00:00:23.500 whether you're replacing one worn out wreath or redoing the whole house for the holidays.

00:00:27.540 And you can use filters, customer photos, and more than 20 million verified five-star reviews

00:00:32.580 to figure out if a piece is going to look like the picture and hold up in real life.

00:00:36.140 If you got some ratty decorations of your own, I use Wayfair, and I think you should too.

00:00:40.500 Find pieces made for real life and even get more value with Wayfair Rewards.

00:00:44.600 Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase.

00:00:48.180 Head to Wayfair.com to shop all things home.

00:00:50.880 That's Wayfair.com.

00:00:52.100 That's spelled W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com.

00:00:55.360 Wayfair.com.

00:00:56.200 way fair every style every home if you've got a business idea that you've been sitting on

00:01:01.120 this is the time of year to do something with it we've used Shopify for the AOM store for years and

00:01:05.880 what I love about it is how easy it is to get a business where you're selling stuff up and running

00:01:09.800 quickly you don't need to know how to build a website Shopify's pre-built themes and AI site

00:01:14.140 builder lets you launch professional looking store without ever touching a line of code

00:01:17.760 and once the store is live you can sell everywhere people shop online in person across social media

00:01:23.380 and even in AI chats.

00:01:25.500 When customers show up, the checkout works.

00:01:27.560 Shopify checkout with ShopPay converts up to 36% higher

00:01:30.340 than the competition, meaning more customers actually buy.

00:01:33.500 Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide

00:01:35.520 from household names to small businesses

00:01:37.440 just getting started.

00:01:38.620 The reason to move now is Black Friday.

00:01:40.920 Launch before it and you're open during the time of year

00:01:42.800 when more people are already shopping and ready to buy

00:01:44.880 instead of scrambling to build a store

00:01:46.740 while everyone else is selling.

00:01:48.340 If you're ready to launch your business before Black Friday,

00:01:50.660 go to shopify.com slash manliness

00:01:52.980 to start your free trial.

00:01:55.060 That's shopify.com slash manliness.

00:01:57.120 Go to shopify.com slash manliness today

00:01:59.440 to hear your first.

00:02:03.620 Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition

00:02:05.560 of the AOM Podcast,

00:02:06.900 which since 2008 has featured conversations

00:02:08.800 with the world's best authors, thinkers, and leaders

00:02:11.180 that glean their edifying, life-improving insights

00:02:13.780 without the fluff and filler.

00:02:15.560 The AOM Podcast is just one part of the McKay mission

00:02:17.680 to help individuals practice timeless virtues

00:02:19.420 through thought, word, and deed.

00:02:21.480 Also be sure to explore articles in artofmanliess.com, read the deeper dives we do in our sub-stack

00:02:25.740 newsletter at dyingbreed.net, and turn our content into real-world action by joining

00:02:29.680 the Strenuous Life program at strenuouslife.com.

00:02:31.960 Now on to the show.

00:02:41.040 If you've been following the Art of Manliess for a while, you know that I typically interview

00:02:44.480 the authors of books on this podcast.

00:02:46.680 But if you've been following the Art of Manliess for a while, you'll know why I hadn't

00:02:50.400 make an exception for today's guest brandon flowers is my very favorite musical artist he's

00:02:56.420 the front man for the multi-platinum record-earning band the killers and has also put out three solo

00:03:00.740 albums i recently had the chance to talk to brandon backstage before one of his shows in las

00:03:05.080 vegas my wife kate as well as a couple of our friends were also on hand and you'll hear me

00:03:09.100 alluded them a couple of times during the interview brandon and i had a great conversation

00:03:13.220 we discussed his third and latest solo album thrasher and guys it is a good one and why he

00:03:18.160 went country western on it what his dad taught about what makes a good man what he's currently

00:03:22.440 reading hint and involves the author of my all-time favorite novel his top five favorite

00:03:27.100 country songs the influence of faith in his life and music what's on his mind in midlife and how

00:03:32.220 he balances work and family after the show's over check out our show notes at awim.is

00:03:36.620 slash brandonflowers

00:03:48.160 all right brandon flowers welcome to the show thank you so for people who have been listening

00:03:57.280 to the podcast or reading the website aom for the past 18 years they know i'm a huge killers fan

00:04:03.500 and a huge fan of your work so this is a treat for me you got a new solo album out yes first one

00:04:10.280 in 11 years it's been 11 years yeah and i can't believe we're also playing stuff from the from

00:04:14.760 the first record which is flamingo 17 years ago and because we're playing in vegas we've opened

00:04:21.160 with a song called welcome to fabulous las vegas that's from that record and i was taken back kind

00:04:26.480 of that it's so old and that i was so young you know when when we wrote you know when when it

00:04:31.280 came about and i'm i'm like it's kind of awesome i don't remember writing this thing but it's like

00:04:40.140 damn it's holding up yeah and we don't get a you know it's weird to play a song called welcome to

00:04:44.120 fabulous las vegas in toronto anyway i'm not anyway it's been fun these little those are 0.98

00:04:48.320 little treats come in full circle yeah yeah i just starting off bragging about myself sorry

00:04:52.840 i don't mean i'm not it's just i just was really happy to play it again and and it was a surprise

00:04:58.140 yeah that's that's great so this new album you go country western yes which for a lot of people

00:05:03.860 who know your work with the killers they're like that's kind of a departure so why a country western

00:05:07.780 album and why now there there i mean there are little seeds you know or little crumbs lead you

00:05:14.100 know along the way i think peppered in through killer's music yeah but it's uh i think just as

00:05:18.380 i get older i am gravitating you know they talk about becoming your parents and uh and it's

00:05:25.360 inevitable in some senses to you know it's just there are things that you do that you're that

00:05:32.460 They're sort of in your blood, I think.

00:05:34.440 And my dad, this was his music.

00:05:38.240 And to me also, when I was, you know, four or five years old,

00:05:43.180 they had me, I was a little bit of a surprise.

00:05:46.040 And so he was older and he looked like those guys, you know.

00:05:52.060 And he, you know, he had the pork chop sideburns

00:05:55.540 and was ripping Marlboros on the couch.

00:05:58.260 And he just sort of had that vibe about him.

00:06:01.420 And I think it's weird how that stuff, it sticks with you.

00:06:05.120 Yeah, it does.

00:06:05.680 I've noticed that, too, in my life as I got into my 40s.

00:06:08.520 I've been picking up style stuff from my dad, like the Casio watch.

00:06:12.820 Like, he had that.

00:06:13.500 I'm like, I need a Casio watch.

00:06:15.280 Or, you know, Wrangler jeans.

00:06:16.660 I didn't wear Wranglers growing up, and now I'm wearing Wranglers now.

00:06:19.660 So the name of the album is Thrasher.

00:06:22.140 What's the story behind that?

00:06:25.700 There's a little bit of sadness underlying in the title.

00:06:29.380 It's a bold title, but going back to my dad,

00:06:33.000 there was a culture shock when I was eight.

00:06:36.380 We moved from Henderson, Nevada to a little town called Payson, Utah.

00:06:41.880 Payson, Utah's claim to fame is footloose, and Jewel was born there.

00:06:46.960 Those are the two things.

00:06:48.320 And I was eight, and I was in the fourth grade,

00:06:52.520 and I talk about it in the show sort of as an anecdote

00:06:56.100 that helps kind of, you know, reveal more context about a song that we play, but I have, I got beat

00:07:01.340 up a little bit and, and, but it was fourth grade, you know, it wasn't like, it wasn't misery, but it

00:07:05.760 was, it was embarrassing and it was emasculating. And, and my dad was from, my dad was born in 1944

00:07:12.480 and, you know, not educate, dropped out of school in the ninth grade. And he grew up like fighting.

00:07:16.920 He was, you know, and he was going to teach me how to fight. And I knew while he was explaining

00:07:21.800 it to me, I still remember, I remember the truck that we were in. I remember the road

00:07:25.560 just knowing it didn't matter what he was telling me. I wasn't, it wasn't going to work and I wasn't

00:07:30.440 going to apply what he was teaching me. And I knew that. And then later on, you know, we moved

00:07:36.280 to another town where they would talk about thrashing someone to thrash someone in a fight

00:07:41.120 was to win a fight. And that is where thrasher comes from is, um, is I'm playing my father's

00:07:46.920 music and I feel like I've become a thrasher in a, in another sense. I found my way, you know,

00:07:52.460 to land jabs yeah right and hooks yeah have you been given similar advice to your boys you've got

00:07:59.480 three teenage boys opposite advice jesus advice oh jesus turn the other cheek yes and especially

00:08:05.360 with just everybody doing mma i explained it to him like look at like dude don't mess with anyone

00:08:09.540 you don't know what is gonna happen as soon as somebody picks you up you are at the mercy of

00:08:14.260 whatever it's over is on the curb your head it could hit the curb it's like i just i just tell

00:08:18.800 dude just get the hell away from fighting yeah that's good advice well i mean speaking of your

00:08:23.920 dad i mean it seems like he's had a big influence on you he shows up in some of your other songs as

00:08:28.400 well as your mother yeah what did your dad teach you about being a man i think a lot there's a you

00:08:33.760 know there's a lot it's i should have gotten more prepared for the art of man i did think of so i

00:08:37.760 did think of something though there's a sweet thing that i've been kind of waiting and i haven't like

00:08:41.900 worked out you know the arc of the story but there's this beautiful thing that i like to think

00:08:45.740 about with my dad. And again, back to that, that move to Payson, I got a BB gun that first Christmas

00:08:52.800 when I was eight. And, you know, it was my first white Christmas and, and I got the whole Red

00:08:59.320 Rider gun and I was so thrilled to have this thing. And we had a shed in the backyard and he

00:09:06.360 worked at Smith's Food King. He was in the produce department and that was just what he always did.

00:09:10.960 and one day he came home with a stack of targets

00:09:15.840 and it had Saddam Hussein's face on it.

00:09:19.160 And the target was during the desert storm.

00:09:21.740 And so I would tack it to the shed 1.00

00:09:28.020 and shoot at Saddam's face in the backyard. 1.00

00:09:33.000 But there's just something poignant that came to me late. 0.65

00:09:36.480 There was also this time when there were these cocoons inside the shed. 0.73

00:09:40.960 and damn this makes me emotional just thinking about it and he he discovered these cocoons 0.64

00:09:46.920 and he took me in and showed me the cocoons and we would like check in on them every now and then 0.97

00:09:52.580 until the day that one day we came in and they had become butterflies and were gone and it's like

00:09:57.080 those the juxtaposition of that and like the duality of that the tooth you know the things

00:10:01.920 that you know it was this manly thing of like shooting at something and then look at how

00:10:06.920 beautiful this this nature is and i just thought it's there's that's what i think about when i

00:10:12.060 think about my dad things like that he had both of those those sides he was hard his hands were

00:10:17.480 you know were strong and he was you know his you know his whiskers i remember feeling his whiskers

00:10:23.620 but he also has a real tenderness to him too and i think those two things make a good man i think

00:10:28.500 so i agree with you 100 so with uh thrasher it's country western and country music it lends itself

00:10:35.740 well to storytelling yeah and it it seems like you know when i listen to music like you're in

00:10:40.700 your element when you're telling stories is that right yeah it's a beautiful part of the tradition

00:10:45.540 of country music and and i i always told stories and it just always made sense to me to tell

00:10:50.640 stories in songs and i think it really set us apart in the early days um you know you can hide

00:10:57.620 behind ambiguity and and people you know and i got away with murder sometimes with doing with a

00:11:02.760 little bit of that but the a lot of times there would be stories going on i mean a coherent you

00:11:07.580 know start and finish and i think that ties back to this other education from the music that i was

00:11:13.900 hearing from him yeah yeah and then on thrasher these all the songs that they're inspired from

00:11:18.960 stories from your life right yes yeah and you get really particular yes it was funny it's a

00:11:25.120 during covid we made a we made our two covid records the killers and one was called imploding

00:11:29.400 the Mirage. And then the other was called Pressure Machine, where I really zeroed in on this town

00:11:34.800 that I grew up in. Yeah. And... It was Nephi, right? Nephi, yeah. I was taking the... There's

00:11:39.660 a great... There's a Sherwood Anderson book. Well, and also John Steinbeck. Right, yeah. So there's

00:11:45.380 Winesburg, Ohio, and it's a bunch of short stories that take place in the same town. Yeah. And then

00:11:50.600 Steinbeck has one called Pastures of Heaven. That's a great book. Yeah, so cool. It's awesome,

00:11:55.400 And so it's like, I was like, I'm going to try to do this undertaking and I'm going to do it in Nephi.

00:12:03.260 You know, it's what I know.

00:12:03.860 And I just started writing about it and I just couldn't believe how much I had to say and how many feelings I had about that place still and how many memories and like weird little traumas and weird little jokes and everything, all of these things.

00:12:20.320 and it makes sense now you know with 2020 hindsight because with the killers i'm i'm an

00:12:25.820 ambassador for las vegas and you know we are a las vegas band we're waving the flag and that's

00:12:31.340 what people associate us with and it's rightly so it's where we're from but it made me keep these

00:12:36.520 things sort of under wraps or like it was like a secret yeah and what i find it's when i've

00:12:42.740 listened to thrasher like these stories are very personal and you have these personal details and

00:12:47.440 you think how could something so personal appeal to everybody but like i found like when i listen

00:12:52.420 to these songs i'm like i see myself in these songs yeah it's weird how that happens i heard

00:12:57.960 there's a great i think they attribute it to scorsese this quote but it goes further back

00:13:03.100 but that the most personal is the most creative yeah or james joyce said in the particular you

00:13:08.760 find the universal yeah very yes and so there is something about that is very true and i can't

00:13:14.700 believe that i'm able to explore these things and you know reach inside and tell these stories and

00:13:21.540 how how broad it's able to go yeah i mean what's great about your storytelling and songwriting is

00:13:27.120 that it can cause someone to feel something even if they never experienced that exact same thing

00:13:33.440 and then also it can trigger memories of having experienced something similar like tiger's blood

00:13:40.280 like the first time i heard that song i instantly went back in time and saw myself and i knew

00:13:46.040 exactly what you were talking about you know like the country crossroads like i i've been to those

00:13:51.680 weird convenience stores in the middle of nowhere where you go buy a fishing bait and then there's

00:13:57.180 like a mortal combat arc arcade machine somewhere in the corner yeah i mean i thought that was i

00:14:02.340 thought that was awesome and it's like that's a real that was a country crossroads was just a

00:14:06.060 little a little burger joint and there was a mortal combat machine there yeah like you said

00:14:10.620 it's just for whatever reason even if you even if you never encountered a mortal combat machine

00:14:17.620 it's me saying it and you see it and you still understand what's happening and it is a funny

00:14:22.740 thing how it how it like ripples out yeah and then the the song is just like a gut punch like that

00:14:27.940 line no one ever thinks they'll be lonely when they're all grown up yeah they're just living

00:14:31.840 their best life and i remember oh geez like i remember being a teenager and this is it's it's

00:14:35.780 always going to be like this yeah and it's not it's just sad so let's talk i want to talk about

00:14:43.180 this idea so you mentioned you were inspired by john steinbeck yeah you seem like a pretty well

00:14:49.060 read guy because i've seen it like i'm listening to lyrics and i'm like okay you dropped william

00:14:54.540 blake poetry that comes from that comes directly from daniel lamois who's a big collaborator with

00:15:00.880 you two and i think he's just trying to like without telling me where bono's getting his stuff

00:15:06.140 he would be like just bring a william blake book and put it on my lap uh during you know that kind

00:15:11.220 of stuff that's where that kind of stuff would come from but i didn't i wasn't my family weren't

00:15:15.840 big readers i remember you know i got the we got the we read the pearl okay yeah in in fifth grade

00:15:24.280 so that was my intro you know my gateway into that and then you know you get like you read like on the

00:15:28.860 road and you think you're supposed to read the beats you know that kind of beat poetry stuff

00:15:34.200 and i knew that that wasn't me yeah like i just wasn't gonna like it just i get why people are

00:15:39.820 attracted to it there's like the rock and roll authors you know but which is awesome that it

00:15:45.380 led me back to stein people like steinbeck that are like that this is more feels more

00:15:50.800 relatable and is more my guy yeah are you a reader now like do you make time for reading

00:15:56.600 yeah yeah i do i'm not like very you know i'm not wild wildly i i take it slowly it's almost

00:16:03.960 like methodical it's but i look forward to it every night yeah what's on your nightstand lately

00:16:08.800 so it's been west it's been larry mcmurtry oh so i'm finishing the the okay yeah okay yeah tell

00:16:16.640 me which one are you finishing what the tetralogy is that what we yeah the lonesome dove yeah and

00:16:21.080 i'm at the i i went backwards okay and so i'm at the first book right now so i started on uh

00:16:27.520 what is it it's the streets of laredo is that's the final one yeah i started on streets of laredo

00:16:33.260 so you started going backwards you were going backwards okay that's an interesting way to do

00:16:35.960 because that was the last book yeah so i read streets of laredo and i didn't know that i what

00:16:40.340 i was getting i didn't understand that i was in the tetralogy yet yeah and then i was like oh

00:16:44.120 lonesome dove and then comanche moon yeah and i just i've those three just have knocked my socks

00:16:50.960 off yes and so far i think it's called dead man's walk is it's i'm waiting for it to kick in it's

00:16:56.420 not but i'm like oh it's not the best it doesn't feel like it's gonna hopefully yeah but i still

00:17:01.320 i'm so you know gus mccray is my favorite he's my best friend he oh my gosh okay listen listen okay

00:17:07.320 i gotta tell you about lonesome dove it is my all-time favorite novel i love this book i've

00:17:12.820 read it like five or six times i've done a book club like with it with 800 people i recommend it

00:17:19.120 to everybody i named my son gus oh wow after augustus mccray so i got a gustus mckay so i so

00:17:26.020 i yeah i love this book and i'm really glad that you're reading it and it's a great book to be

00:17:30.600 reading while you're touring a country western album yeah and i've enjoyed i really really

00:17:36.300 enjoyed it you know that they're gonna make their netflix has picked it up and they're gonna yeah

00:17:39.600 i don't know about that i know that it's so iconic you know robert duvall and tommy lee jones

00:17:45.420 and all that but i do they do miss they don't it's so it's missing the edge there's so much

00:17:50.780 they're missing the sex there's a lot of sex in that book yeah that didn't make it into the

00:17:54.940 miniseries they'll probably add that and if it's a netflix we'll figure it out we'll figure it out

00:17:58.980 matthew mcconey his whole career he is robert he's just doing robert duvall all the time that's

00:18:03.260 yeah you're right if you watch him you're right he is only doing robert duvall and nobody i look

00:18:08.200 it up i like googled it and it's like nobody talks about it i know okay like it's like he's

00:18:15.300 only doing robert duvall all the time watch duvall in like days of thunder even or something like

00:18:20.900 that and it's like it's just it's matthew mcconnell you see it like it's crazy i hadn't

00:18:25.000 thought about that but i think you might be on to something there so i mean if we'll have to see if

00:18:29.140 he gets cast as gus and you know maybe the series is not going to be as bad as i as i thought it

00:18:33.480 would be we'll have to see so you grew up listening to your dad's country western music

00:18:38.720 you just came out with a country album and you've been reading western themed literature

00:18:45.020 so let's talk about this what are your five favorite country songs right now if you ask

00:18:52.700 me tomorrow it might be different but i was thinking about it and i've got my five favorite

00:18:56.880 country songs today let's hear it okay don't close your eyes by keith whitley you know that one i

00:19:02.300 don't um it's so beautiful um so the soundtrack to nephi when i was there in in the 90s was it

00:19:09.600 was country music so i got this music from my brother but like at school dances and the guys

00:19:14.840 that were at the golf course that i was with it was country music and this was like somebody that

00:19:20.140 was really prominent in the 90s amazing voice and and they would play this song it's just funny to

00:19:26.160 think of like this at a school dance because he's asking his wife to not imagine that she's with

00:19:31.180 another man he says don't close your eyes let it be me tonight you know and that's probably like

00:19:36.480 the first time i like touched a girl's hips to this song uh anyway but everyone should check out

00:19:43.040 keith whitley don't close your eyes okay so this one is really cool it's called the winner and it's

00:19:48.000 written by shell silverstein no shell silverstein wrote some like some really cool country songs i

00:19:52.660 didn't know that and chris christopherson does it and it is so good it's about i guess for this

00:19:59.860 podcast too it's like it's a guy who thinks of himself as a fighter and he goes into a bar and

00:20:05.780 he wants to fight the guy that's like the toughest guy and it's called the winner and the guy's like

00:20:10.320 a little bit older now and he's got this wisdom and he explains to him what it takes to be the

00:20:13.880 winner and he explains the broken bones and the teeth and you know you could apply it to every

00:20:20.780 thing in your life it doesn't have to be fighting and it's just a beautiful and shell silverstein

00:20:24.920 wrote it it's like so cool and then my third choice is called silver stallion it's by the

00:20:30.580 highwayman and it's just a beautiful song about it's everybody like takes a verse you know the

00:20:37.060 highwayman everybody would take a verse and then i think i think johnny cash sings the choruses

00:20:43.600 because each song had a different kind of layout sometimes everybody would have a verse

00:20:47.480 but this one the other three guys have verses and johnny sings the choruses

00:20:51.220 and it's just it's just a great a great song and the video is worth watching there's this little

00:20:56.380 wink that waylon jennings does that is the most subtle wink in the history of mankind and he's

00:21:03.160 just saying a little naughty line when he does it and it is like damn so i have a little nod to it

00:21:09.040 and does it ever cross your mind uh i mean in paradise i say i lost the angel on my shoulder 0.89

00:21:13.380 12 years old and we did a video at rca in nashville and i tried my best like my little

00:21:18.900 my little wailing wink when i say i lost the angel 12 years old i did not though lose the angel when

00:21:24.880 i was 12 years old i was not that young i'm singing about my cousin bobby all right a lot

00:21:29.820 of things different is this song it's called a lot of things different it's written by billy

00:21:34.340 anderson bill anderson but there's a if if people check it out youtube john conley doing this song

00:21:41.680 and it is like you can't get through the song without crying you cannot do it if you have a

00:21:48.100 heart in your body it's like people say they wouldn't change a thing even if they could oh

00:21:52.560 but i would and he talks about these things from when he was a little boy till his wife dies

00:21:56.680 the things that he would that he would have done different and it is like a gut punch man

00:22:01.640 it's so beautiful i love country songwriting storytelling is crazy and then i just wanted

00:22:07.420 to do a new song there's a guy named ian no who just put out a new record and there's a song

00:22:12.540 called What I'd Give, and it's like tiger's blood, but way better. It's so good, and I would like

00:22:19.460 people to know about this song. It's about his friend that passed away, and he did such a good

00:22:24.240 job at honoring him and explaining what life is like after, and just a beautiful new song.

00:22:32.380 We're going to take a quick break for your words from our sponsors.

00:22:35.860 I've been using The Great from Caldera Lab consistently for over a year now, and I've

00:22:39.780 really seen an improvement in my skin. It looks a lot fresher, less dull, even my wife Kate has

00:22:44.540 noticed. And the reason I've stuck with it for over a year is that it's so easy to use. I'm not

00:22:49.140 going to do some 10-step skincare routine. I want one thing that works and this is it. The Great is

00:22:53.660 an anti-aging serum designed specifically for men's skin, which is 25% thicker and oilier than

00:22:58.500 women's and ages differently. So it needs formulas built for it. It helps reduce the appearance of

00:23:02.920 fine lines and wrinkles and helps skin look firmer, smoother, and more refreshed. It's lightweight and

00:23:07.520 absorbs fast. I put it on after I wash my face in the morning and at night, and that's the whole

00:23:11.620 routine. And I'm not the only one seeing results. In a four-week study of men ages 40 to 60, 97%

00:23:16.820 agreed the overall appearance of the skin was visibly improved. If you're looking for one

00:23:20.800 simple product that actually makes a difference, that's the great. Visit calderalab.com slash

00:23:25.380 manliness and use code manliness for 20% off your first order. That's calderalab. That's spelled

00:23:30.660 C-A-L-D-E-R-A-L-A-B.com slash manliness

00:23:34.740 and use code manliness for 20% off your first order.

00:23:38.480 Do you ever call a business

00:23:39.180 and you get sent straight to a voicemail

00:23:40.640 that was clearly recorded in 2015 and just hang up?

00:23:43.880 Your customers do that to you too.

00:23:46.300 And by the time you call back,

00:23:47.780 they've hired the guy down the street,

00:23:49.460 left him a five-star review.

00:23:50.800 At some point, you just have to say,

00:23:52.860 all right, let's Quo.

00:23:54.700 Today's episode is brought to you by Quo,

00:23:56.700 spelled Q-U-O,

00:23:57.760 the business phone system built so you never miss a call.

00:24:00.660 With Quo, your calls and texts all live in one place, so anyone on your team can see the whole conversation and pick it up.

00:24:06.700 It sets up in minutes on any device, and you keep your existing number.

00:24:10.060 No IT guy is required, and when a call comes in at 9 p.m. and everybody's gone home, Quo's optional built-in AI agent answers questions and even books the appointment.

00:24:18.560 Over 90,000 businesses use it.

00:24:20.580 If you're a plumber or anyone else whose business lives on the phone, you can't afford to be the voicemail from 2015.

00:24:26.700 Money is on the line.

00:24:28.040 Always say hello with Quo.

00:24:29.980 Try Quo for free, plus get 20% off your first six months

00:24:32.960 when you go to quo.com slash AOM.

00:24:36.260 That's Quo, Q-U-O dot com slash AOM.

00:24:40.180 We've run the AOM store on Shopify for years.

00:24:42.940 So if a friend asked me how to start selling something online,

00:24:45.240 that's what I would tell them to use.

00:24:46.880 What I love about Shopify is how easy it is to get a business

00:24:49.520 where you're selling stuff up and running quickly.

00:24:52.160 You don't have to be an e-commerce expert.

00:24:54.080 Shopify walks you through launching a store

00:24:55.640 and taking orders in a few simple steps.

00:24:57.500 and the pre-built themes in AI Site Builder handle the part most people dread,

00:25:01.980 which is making the site look professional.

00:25:04.420 Sidekick, Shopify's AI assistant, can help with business tasks along the way,

00:25:08.080 from store setup to planning your holiday promotions.

00:25:10.800 And once you're live, Shopify checkout with ShopPay converts up to 36% higher than the competition,

00:25:16.620 so more of the folks who make it a checkout finish the order.

00:25:19.500 Shopify's mobile app helps you handle inventory, customer support, and payments from anywhere.

00:25:23.840 If you're thinking about launching your business, do it before Black Friday.

00:25:26.960 That's the time of year when more people

00:25:28.020 are already shopping and ready to buy

00:25:29.320 and you want your store ready when they show up.

00:25:31.540 If you're ready to launch your business before Black Friday,

00:25:33.940 go to Shopify.com to start your free trial.

00:25:36.560 That's Shopify.com.

00:25:37.960 Go to Shopify.com today to hear your first.

00:25:41.880 If you run a small business,

00:25:43.080 at some point you also got to be the payroll department.

00:25:45.700 I don't know anybody who got into business for that part,

00:25:47.620 but it's got to get done right

00:25:48.960 because getting payroll taxes wrong is expensive.

00:25:52.240 Gusto has online payroll and benefit software

00:25:54.100 built for small businesses.

00:25:55.780 It's all-in-one, remote-friendly, and incredibly easy to use.

00:25:59.180 So you can pay, hire, onboard, and support your team from anywhere.

00:26:02.900 It handles automatic payroll tax filing, direct deposits, health benefits, workers' comp, 401k, you name it,

00:26:08.820 and there are options for nearly every budget.

00:26:11.140 You get unlimited payroll runs for one monthly price with no hidden fees and no surprises.

00:26:15.420 And plenty of people agree.

00:26:16.540 Gusto is ranked number one on G2's highest satisfaction products list for 2026,

00:26:20.700 and over 500,000 small businesses use it.

00:26:23.140 AOM is a mom and pop operation right now, but if AOM ever decides to become a media empire and we

00:26:27.740 need to hire a team, I'll be using Gusto. Try Gusto today at gusto.com slash AOM and get three

00:26:34.020 months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free payroll at gusto.com

00:26:38.520 slash AOM. One more time, gusto.com slash AOM. That's spelled G-U-S-T-O.com slash AOM.

00:26:45.980 And now back to the show. So, you know, country music, you know, one of its traditions is there's

00:26:52.240 a lot of religion or faith or gospel is in its bones. I mean, this is something you've done

00:26:56.640 throughout your career with your music. You bring in faith. You're a member of the Church of Jesus

00:27:00.700 Christ of Latter-day Saints, as am I. But what's interesting is the way you sing about faith or

00:27:07.420 write lyrics about faith, it never seems preachy or sermonizing. And it seems like it resonates

00:27:15.840 and lands with people regardless of their religion or their background so what do you think your

00:27:22.900 trick is with that i don't know what the trick yeah i definitely i think it's because i have

00:27:30.200 an understanding i'm pretty interested in people who leave my faith which is a weird thing to talk

00:27:37.360 about i guess because i'm i'm so my faith is weirdly unshakable there's a guy patrick mason

00:27:43.340 that writes lds books but he talks about having a religious gene and he's like i for sure have a

00:27:47.460 religious gene and maybe there is a gene and if there is i have the religious gene because i it

00:27:52.900 just it's yeah pretty unshakable so so i so it makes me interested in people that leave it and

00:27:57.500 so i sympathize with them and i understand i do i do i know i i know there's a whole plethora

00:28:01.800 of reasons why people you know get out of religion and so i think my there's a little bit of a

00:28:08.820 it's a tightrope kind of that you gotta walk yeah but i think having that empathy and that

00:28:15.020 compassion for those people while wanting to maybe even drop some easter eggs or some plant

00:28:21.100 some seeds myself at the same time is sort of the trick bono has been doing it forever he has been

00:28:25.580 doing it and he does a good job at it yeah such a good great person that i admire that that does

00:28:30.060 it well yeah i mean yeah i think a lot of your songs from the killers and also your solo work

00:28:34.180 there's always like a touch of the eternal to them yeah like a longing for it but at the same

00:28:39.140 time like you're still grounded in mortality like in the here and now and a lot of people are

00:28:44.980 post-modernism and everything and and just irony has crept into a lot and it's so much such a big

00:28:50.620 part of music now and i am so sincere like like it's just who i am and how i am and so there's

00:28:58.360 that too it's just all wrapped together yeah it's it's refreshing and i think a lot of people crave

00:29:03.060 that they're looking for that and so you're providing it yeah so yeah it's interesting

00:29:07.060 because you want your artists to be authentic but then it is strange when they might be

00:29:13.040 have these leanings not like that yeah yeah right so it is kind of funny it's a double-edged sword

00:29:19.300 yeah well some of these songs my favorite is an american dream and i think it's like your most

00:29:24.320 existential song but it also i think it touches on faith yeah like what were you trying to work

00:29:29.860 out in this trying to figure out myself right now i think it's funny it's it's such a it feels like

00:29:37.220 some kind of a fever dream where people are like what is he talking about but to me when i i you

00:29:41.800 know every line is like perfectly manufactured and it makes sense to me and i mean i could go

00:29:47.940 through all of it but i i do like leaving some of it to people's imaginations but but yeah it's sort

00:29:53.320 of um just trying to come to terms with being 45 years old and how much effort that i've put into

00:30:00.180 you know my work and and trying to figure out i genuinely am asking if it's worth it you know

00:30:06.420 was it worth it because do you have to give things up to you know to go at it the way that i've been

00:30:12.160 going at it what kind of things have you had to give up um just maybe time yeah you know with

00:30:17.300 people and relationships maybe deteriorate with even with just maybe my brothers and sisters i

00:30:23.000 And, you know, and my dad, you know, I just didn't have a normal adult life, you know.

00:30:31.720 And so it's just some of that stuff is in there and just chasing fame or, you know, validation from other people, which is I've slowly chipped away at that.

00:30:45.220 That's a hard thing to chipped away at.

00:30:45.960 It's taken me a long time and I still want it.

00:30:48.960 I want it.

00:30:50.200 I get it.

00:30:50.800 Yeah, but I don't need it like I did or think that I needed it when I was 28 or whatever.

00:30:55.960 Returning to your faith, in our church right now, we're reading the Old Testament.

00:30:59.580 Yeah.

00:31:00.060 And I read somewhere that you're reading it together with your sons.

00:31:03.620 Yeah, we do it all through.

00:31:04.820 So we do, it's called Come Follow Me.

00:31:07.680 Come Follow Me, yeah.

00:31:08.660 Yeah, and we've been doing it since it was implemented.

00:31:11.940 And my family wasn't, I don't know if whoever's listening or not, LDS, but we have these things,

00:31:15.020 you know, there's this thing growing up in the 80s.

00:31:17.020 It was like a big thing, family home evening, they called it.

00:31:19.140 Yeah.

00:31:19.260 you know so they would kind of designate a day monday was going to be a day and it was going to

00:31:24.060 be a family home evening and some people did it and some people didn't but it wasn't even there

00:31:29.380 was no like outline what was it i don't know yeah you're supposed to like just be together

00:31:34.580 and and we didn't do we maybe had two family home evenings in my whole life and then when my kids

00:31:41.820 were were growing up i started doing it a little bit and i would you know there were like little

00:31:47.660 kits that you could look at on google or something like that that it was almost like

00:31:51.640 mommy bloggers would make or something like that and and there was just no guidance and then our

00:31:58.280 church implemented this thing that was like more home-centered learning and i don't know what it

00:32:04.880 was but i just i just did it we just started doing it that's awesome and and it became it's just not

00:32:10.660 even a it's so they give you a book and you know about this the outline of it and i just stuck it

00:32:15.440 on the dinner table and it was like it was going to be something that we did after dinner that's

00:32:21.160 awesome every day and and it's been so nice but i hear you watch the sopranos afterwards we do yeah

00:32:27.200 which i think is appropriate like the old testament is wild you know i mean i think it's got similar

00:32:33.020 themes to the sopranos because it's like this you know family tribal saga i tried to hold off but

00:32:38.320 the kids are getting older yeah you're trying to introduce them to those shows because we did it

00:32:41.860 was like during covet it was the waltons okay so you're getting edgier and edgier yeah and then

00:32:46.840 it was breaking bad okay and we oh baskets was a hit in our in our house baskets was so good

00:32:54.420 yeah only three seasons you know about baskets baskets it's about a family in bakersfield

00:32:59.980 california okay and zach alfanakis plays he plays twins this has got louis what's his name he plays

00:33:07.100 the mom louie anderson louie anderson he is my mom mama baskets yes yes mom in that she she is my

00:33:12.760 mom yeah it's like is exactly like unbelievable the things they say like oh there's that scene

00:33:17.980 where they're at costco where she's at costco and she's like talking to the people it's like it's

00:33:22.120 your mom it's like he says he's just doing his mom yeah and that's what a beautiful thing for

00:33:26.680 him at the end of his life in his career to like he won an emmy an emmy yeah and who thought let's

00:33:31.460 call louis anderson to be the mom right that was genius like what i think louis ck was it was when 0.92

00:33:37.700 he got into a little trouble and they canceled the damn show yeah bring back baskets bring back 0.89

00:33:41.660 mama baskets so what i was getting at so yeah you're reading the old testament as i listened 0.98

00:33:45.400 to american dream it's very ecclesiastes i don't know if you read ecclesiastes but ecclesiastes

00:33:50.500 it's all about you know this preacher saying you know i want fame i want wealth and then i think 0.98

00:33:56.420 it's going to make me happy but he says it's all hevel it's all vapor oh yeah it's like the fool's 0.82

00:34:00.720 the fool's goal but at the same time at the end this preacher says okay this stuff's not going to 0.95

00:34:06.100 bring you happiness but like if you do it right it can bring you happiness oh yeah that's that's 0.98

00:34:11.620 very much that yeah very much an american that is an american dream so another one that you get

00:34:17.480 spiritual on it's very poignant song miss america this is about your sister yeah that's right leaving

00:34:23.340 an abusive marriage yeah um she was here last night we did it and i didn't see her the whole

00:34:29.040 show. And then while I was singing that, I saw where she was and it was something, man, it was

00:34:34.180 so tough to get through Miss America last night. But yeah, it was that thing where on Pressure

00:34:40.200 Machine, I went to Nephi and then I went even closer for this record and just went to my inner

00:34:46.380 circle. And so there's a brother-in-law song and a couple of sister songs and my cousin Bobby shows

00:34:52.940 up in paradise yeah but yeah so miss america just it's just funny how these memories that you have

00:34:59.560 is so many things that stick with us are really emotionally charged yeah and the biggest one

00:35:05.140 the biggest emotion is fear for that kind of stuff and i remember a lot of fear around that guy that

00:35:13.340 my sister was married to and you know early memory is and you were pretty young really young because

00:35:19.380 she's quite a bit she's 15 years older than me so early memories are him and my dad fighting

00:35:23.940 in my kitchen like physical fight yeah and then um and then a year later you know her and him

00:35:29.840 fighting and us going out to shoot baskets um because they were screaming and um and then the

00:35:36.460 house just shaking and running in and she's on the ground you know it was like one of those things

00:35:41.380 where this guy was gonna he would have killed her if she would have stayed long enough but the

00:35:45.080 beautiful thing about it is my family moves and i feel like payson at the time when they moved up

00:35:50.220 you know up the i-15 to payson it was like just far enough away for her to when she brought the

00:35:55.620 kids that she could stay there you know it wasn't across town and he could come and cry at the door

00:35:59.520 anymore it was like i'm gone you know it's a six hour drive and there was enough space for it to

00:36:07.000 sink in that this could actually you know happen you could be away from him and so it's um yeah but

00:36:13.020 it was it was an emotional thing to write about but again i was just surprised at what i remembered

00:36:18.760 and and then it draws me closer to her when i'm when i send it to her because i wanted to you know

00:36:24.780 get her approval before we put on the record and and so it just bonded us and you know now we're

00:36:30.800 forever bound by this song and and it's kind of a pretty a pretty side to it no it is i mean there's

00:36:36.720 that line i remember the first time i heard it i think i watched like a bootleg youtube video

00:36:40.280 you were playing in like it looked like a dazing conference place um but that lyric

00:36:44.940 if jesus really suffered and paid for all this sin then why do we still feel it again and again

00:36:51.880 that's a tough question and i think every believer is going to bump into that at some point

00:36:57.700 have you figured it out no no because you know he's he's taking care of it and if you believe

00:37:02.860 you know you've got this this hope that things are going to be made whole again but you don't

00:37:10.540 know we can't know and you just have to have faith that what he did what you believe that he did for

00:37:16.480 us is is really gonna you know it's gonna it's really gonna happen yeah have you ever toyed with

00:37:21.640 the idea of doing a gospel album like elvis a little bit yeah no i i love that i love those

00:37:26.100 records and just trying to find a way to to do it you know i don't have those guys are both you

00:37:33.140 know such heavy hitters and they have such distinguished and sort of baritone voices

00:37:37.780 and i think that's what's gave a weight to to empowered a lot of those songs but i would be

00:37:44.240 into it yeah i'm a high free i'm a tenor though you know yeah there's got to be some way to find

00:37:48.500 it in though are there any songs you'd put on there like like in mind like two or three you're

00:37:52.840 I was like, that would be a good one I'd want to do.

00:37:54.460 Yeah, I've thought of a couple.

00:37:56.640 I was trying to think, what was there?

00:37:57.520 There was one that I love.

00:38:00.180 It's called My Lord, What a Morning.

00:38:01.760 Is that what it's called?

00:38:03.240 I think it's called My Lord, What a Morning.

00:38:05.620 Okay, yeah.

00:38:06.080 We'll have to look it up.

00:38:06.800 I love that song.

00:38:07.940 Yeah, well, we'd love to hear Brandon Flowers' gospel album.

00:38:10.580 I've done a couple songs.

00:38:12.040 Yeah, I mean, they're out there.

00:38:13.740 At, like, church events and things like that.

00:38:16.400 Yeah, so one of the things I appreciate about your work

00:38:19.520 is that it feels like it's grown up with me and it each of your albums has it seems to hit at the

00:38:27.640 right moment in my life there are bands that i listened to in high school yeah and you know

00:38:33.240 they're still putting out stuff but they're like they're still singing about the same stuff and it

00:38:37.740 just sounds the same like some artists like their music just kind of stays stuck in this adolescent

00:38:44.520 ethos and it doesn't resonate resonate with me anymore because i'm in my 40s not i'm not 17

00:38:50.200 anymore but yours has matured and it touches themes and currents that you don't typically see

00:38:58.220 in a lot of popular music these days like you've been married for two decades

00:39:02.460 and that experience is in your songs i mean there really aren't many songs that capture

00:39:09.780 the enduring love of a long-standing marriage and like that's refreshing and imploding the mirage

00:39:19.140 and then pressure machine those seem like midlife albums and not like midlife crisis albums like

00:39:25.580 just like midlife thrasher does too am i reading that right no yeah it's it's i've been i've made

00:39:31.180 a kind of a real concerted effort to to i mean if you can do it to try to just inhabit my age and

00:39:38.300 grow gracefully and there are bands that i love that i grew up on that didn't do that you know

00:39:43.900 and i won't i'm not going to say who they are but you see them and they're like they're squeezing

00:39:47.160 into the clothes and they're trying to look like it's whatever year it was and it's like it's an

00:39:52.580 it's i just don't want to do that yeah so it's an it's a tough you got to you know it's a little

00:39:58.140 bit of maneuvering and it's almost like a little bit of a game of chess and going back to an

00:40:02.280 american dream i know i realized that if i really want to follow through on that you know there

00:40:08.180 might be things i got to give up or you know i mean you know maybe i i don't know what the future

00:40:14.220 will look like or what shows will look like maybe it's not always going to be giant rooms with all

00:40:18.760 this you know old songs maybe it's going to look more like the tour that i'm on now you know i'm

00:40:23.420 not sure i mean what are some themes on your mind lately as you're 45 in midlife i wrote a new song

00:40:30.400 called the weight of the world and i have a funny line my dad got you know knees replaced from

00:40:37.260 I'm carrying the weight of the world.

00:40:39.340 And I've had both of my shoulders, I've had shaved my acromiums and a labral tear.

00:40:45.340 And I tie it together, me and him, like the chorus is I'm tired of carrying the weight of the world.

00:40:51.680 Jesus, if it's all right with you, this is my two weeks notice.

00:40:55.260 There's got to be some younger gun with his eye on the pearl who wouldn't mind carrying the weight of the world.

00:41:01.660 Anyway, that's what I've been feeling like lately.

00:41:03.940 That's funny that you're relating to your dad about the physical ailment.

00:41:06.280 yeah yeah it happens my brother always said wait till you're 40 you know yeah and you just feel

00:41:11.100 like it's never gonna happen but man i mean the day before this tour started i had to get a shot

00:41:16.840 in my hip because i i have a small tear a small labral tear in my hip and i got it from trying to

00:41:23.360 do uh a challenge a longevity challenge oh no it's like trying to get up without trying to get

00:41:29.820 up without your hands yeah and i tore my labrum six months ago trying to get up anyway that's what

00:41:36.900 i'm dealing with oh man now i've had that same when i go to uh visit my dad in oklahoma city

00:41:41.980 like we'll have conversations i'm like man do you have to pee in the middle of the night like how

00:41:47.040 are you sleeping it's pretty funny well speaking about this getting old and getting the tear

00:41:50.880 are you working out like i mean you're 45 you know the touring is physically demanding yeah i

00:41:56.140 started early on um but i feel still i still i'm frustrated because i feel like i was late

00:42:00.880 a little bit late probably like 27 28 is when i started going it was just a lot it had to do with

00:42:07.400 cardio which is sort of makes sense now like what we do on what i do on stage requires that kind of

00:42:13.280 endurance you know like not tonight but like i had a killer show is really different it's like a

00:42:17.680 really a lot but um i wasn't lifting heavy enough and i know that now and i can't go back

00:42:24.540 uh so my i got my son now is 19 and he's he's learning that and so he's already he's already

00:42:31.240 like leaps and bounds ahead of me on in that apartment so you're on the road a lot you talked

00:42:36.340 about you know one of the things you're worried or thinking about is like was it worth it because

00:42:39.380 you're away from your family but i mean you're a family guy it seems like you've tried to stay

00:42:43.380 connected how do you so how do you keep those home fires burning when you're on the road it's one of

00:42:47.520 the things is i don't this is all i do is this in my family yeah i don't um i grew up golfing and i

00:42:54.020 always thought that that was going to be there for me if I ever wanted to do something and it's

00:43:00.860 just funny I mean I was I loved that game I love it I really appreciate it still and I've gone a

00:43:06.640 couple of times and I just feel nothing like I feel I can't wait for it to be done and I can't

00:43:12.280 I just can't believe that it's really fun because I loved it but it's just that I just do it's just

00:43:18.700 family and and the music so in a lot of ways i think i make up for that for those for the time

00:43:25.960 that i've been on the road of course i can't it can't be you can't be perfect at it but i've

00:43:30.760 learned to balance it and when i'm home i'm home that's awesome well brandon this has been a great

00:43:36.620 conversation so i've done my best to like keep my mike wallace 60 minutes it's okay so i'm gonna

00:43:41.340 fanboy out but like literally your your music has meant a lot oh thank you so much it's been the

00:43:47.200 soundtrack to my my life but the past 20 years memories with these guys are there like we found

00:43:54.240 out marion was pregnant at a killer show she started puking oh no um and then um you know

00:44:01.240 just memories with my kids on a road trip in the american southwest putting on the killers and just

00:44:06.360 singing with them and seeing them go to their first killer show and just really excited so yeah

00:44:10.840 thank you for you know developing that talent thank you for sharing thank you and thank you to

00:44:14.800 your family and your wife and your kids for sharing you with us yeah thank you so much

00:44:18.720 my guest today was brandon flowers his latest album is thrasher it's available wherever you

00:44:24.200 stream music but even better go to brandonflowersmusic.com where you can buy the album in

00:44:29.120 vinyl cd or cassette and if you want to go deeper in today's episode be sure to check out our show

00:44:34.200 notes at awim.is slash brandon flowers which includes links to further resources including

00:44:38.900 brandon's five favorite country songs

00:44:41.320 well that wraps up another edition of the a1 podcast if you haven't done so already i'd

00:44:53.880 appreciate it if you take one minute to give us a review on the podcast player that you use to

00:44:57.460 listen to the show and if you've done that already thank you please consider sharing the

00:45:01.340 show with a friend or family member you think you're something out of it as always thank you

00:45:05.780 for the continued support until next time it's brett mckay reminding us on this day one podcast

00:45:09.340 but put what you've heard into action.

The Art of Manliness - October 13, 2026

Brandon Flowers, Frontman of the Killers, on Family, Faith, and Becoming a Thrasher

Episode Stats

Transcript