00:02:31Absolutely. So there was some early Marxist contacts around 1848 in the United States.
00:02:37But to kind of get to the meat and potatoes of the pre-war communist infiltration, what we saw was in the mid and early 1920s, even in some cases before that, there was a heavy amount of Soviet influence on the United States, specifically through the Agriculture Department and the State Department.
00:02:54So you may have heard the name Alger Hiss, and many in your audience may have heard that name before. Alger Hiss started in the Agriculture Department in 1933. It was the Agricultural Adjustment Administration at that time. And essentially, he was able to rise in the span of 12 years to go from a man who was an assistant attorney at the Agricultural Adjustment Administration to one of those powerful individuals in the State Department.
00:03:17How did he do this? Well, there was a heavy web, a web of subversion, you might say, a heavy web of Soviet-aligned actors. They were kind of considered fellow travelers. They were either sympathetic or direct agents of the Soviet Union who existed within the administration of Franklin Delano Roosevelt from the period of 1933 to 1945.0.60
00:03:37This allowed a lot of ingratiation and a lot of intermingling of sympathetic Soviet, sympathetic communist individuals within the United States and people in the Soviet Union who wanted to influence the U.S. government.
00:03:52So that kind of set the stage for even before World War II happened.
00:03:56We had quite a lot of connections with the Soviet Union, and these were fostered.
00:04:00These are kind of what got us into the position where we took the Soviet Union as an ally in the war.
00:04:05um when we look at who was involved in the early 1930s we see a lot of names that don't sound
00:04:13familiar john jay apt for example lee pressman these are people you wouldn't think of but these
00:04:18are the ur managerial bureaucrats when we think of the deep state these are the people who built
00:04:23the deep state uh alger his himself was a founder of the united nations so when we sit there today
00:04:28and we think why is it that our sovereignty has been dissolved by globalist organizations that
00:04:32seem to be aligned with third world communism or with trotsky style communism generally we think
00:04:38to ourselves this must have happened in the past 20 years 30 years no this is a hundred plus year
00:04:42program we're looking down the barrel of something that's been going on far longer than i think many
00:04:46of us can wrap our heads around yeah i mean the implications here are of course huge a lot of
00:04:53people will say that fdr was just a fan really of totalitarians in general that he had you know
00:04:59kind words for hitler he had kind words uh you know for uh the ussr that ultimately uh you know
00:05:06and i think this is something that james burnham says in the managerial revolution that basically
00:05:11all of these forms whether it be fdr's new deal communism or fascism all of them are trying to
00:05:17deal with the industrial revolution and the explosion of scale they're all trying to figure
00:05:20out how they're going to wield power over these vast new kind of imperial uh possessions that
00:05:26these uh that these different civilizations have and so they all need to figure out some way to
00:05:31centralize power to you know production and consumption and all of these things have to be
00:05:35brought together under one umbrella so is the implication here that fdr was sympathetic to
00:05:41communism was he simply uh recognizing at some level that he needed the centralization of
00:05:47authority and it didn't matter where it came from or was there something built into the pre-world
00:05:52war ii uh kind of dispensation created by fdr's new deal that ultimately tied us to sympathies
00:05:59with the ussr moving into world war ii yeah fdr psychology is fascinating because on one hand
00:06:05there is this fdr caesar right fdr the guy who wants to be the king of america he's the only
00:06:11president to serve four terms he gets giant busts of his head built to go in the parade right so
00:06:16So there's FDR, who's this kind of monolithic figure for the American government, who kind of emboldens the American government to become stronger, at least the federal government, to become stronger than it was previous.
00:06:27And on one hand, it is true that he kind of naturally aligns with authoritarians generally, whether that be the fascists out of Italy or the Soviets out of Russia.
00:06:37But what we also see, and this is something that I think many people miss, is FDR is incredibly sympathetic to the Soviet concept of decolonization.
00:06:46colonization. And we can look back at some of these conferences that were held directly after
00:06:50the war. And something that FDR kept hammering home was we needed to have a decolonization0.60
00:06:55of European powers from the rest of the world. Now, this is kind of getting into the nitty-gritty,
00:07:00but the early intelligence agencies like the OSS, which were quite varied in their ideologies. You
00:07:05had people who were monarchists, people who were ultra-conservative, people who were communists
00:07:09working under the same umbrella. These institutions found themselves kind of acting independently in
00:07:15many cases, places like Vietnam, where we trained Ho Chi Minh and his forces. Obviously, we enforced0.52
00:07:22communism there. We helped communists grow in that area. Why is that the case? I believe, and I think
00:07:27many can have come to this conclusion, that FDR's sympathies to decolonization, which we still see
00:07:33today, this idea of decolonizing the rest of the world of Western influence, these sympathies made
00:07:39him particularly sympathetic to the Soviet Union and their investments in the third world, in the
00:07:45greater world outside of the West, trying to spread communism globally. I think that's where we see0.89
00:07:50his alliance kind of really break out and see it become something more than just convenience,
00:07:56wanting to hold power. He really saw an ideological alignment and his personnel in his State
00:08:01Department reflected that policy for over a generation. And they hired people who became
00:08:06their successors, and they followed that policy going into the Cold War. So when we talk about
00:08:11the direct post-war environment with communist infiltration in the U.S., FDR's State Department
00:08:17really fostered these people. And in fact, the head of the State Department under FDR actually
00:08:24said of Alger Hiss that he would not turn his back on Alger Hiss after he was convicted of perjury
00:08:30over his connections to communism early in his career. I mean, this is an incredible statement0.90
00:08:34to think of. Imagine the roles being reversed, so to speak, on any of this. If you had ever come
00:08:40out and said, you know, oh, well, you know, this guy was convicted of being a perjurer over his
00:08:45ties to fascism in his early life. Well, I'll never turn my back on him. Unthinkable. Unthinkable
00:08:52today. Unthinkable in 1933. Unthinkable in 1945. Why is that the case? Well, I think FDR found
00:08:59that the Soviet Union was a perfect model to implement unelected bureaucracies. And I think0.88
00:09:05that's really the key. You know, he was sympathetic to fascism out of Italy because he liked that
00:09:09strong authoritarian figure. But ultimately, he saw the power of the unelected managerial
00:09:15bureaucracy that was permanent and could not be changed between administrations.
00:09:20Yeah. And the fact that obviously this is where that was established, as you point out, FDR
00:09:24is absolutely just kind of the year one founder when it comes to the managerial elite to the
00:09:32deep state. When people talk about deep state, they're basically talking about the lumbering
00:09:36corpse of FDR's administration at this point. And so if all of these assumptions about
00:09:41communist sympathies are built in from the beginning to this bureaucracy, well, then you'd
00:09:47imagine that those at some level still exist in the structure of the deep state. And so we need
00:09:53to understand when we're talking about the deep state and we're talking about communism uh we're
00:09:58not really necessarily talking about things that are always at odds now this will become an
00:10:02interesting story i think as it develops because we're going to see a streak of a more anti-communist
00:10:06language that starts emerging out of the american state uh but we'll we'll hold off on spoiling those
00:10:13uh developments as we go so uh we have this this kind of proto so uh socialism sympathy right
00:10:20with proto-communist sympathy existing inside these bureaucracies.
00:10:24We do know that there are agents of the Soviets in there
00:10:27or people who are fellow travelers, very sympathetic.
00:10:30Now we get to the end of World War II.0.89
00:10:32It becomes clear that the U.S. and the USSR0.68
00:10:37are not going to see eye to eye on everything.
00:10:42Their interests are going to be at crossroads.
00:10:45We are going to get some level of a Cold War.
00:10:48And as we approach the period between the war and kind of the beginning of Joseph McCarthy's work, what is developing in the United States? What is happening between 45 and 50 that leads McCarthy on what ends up being a semi-suicidal mission to try to purge this infiltration in the United States?
00:11:08Yeah. So between 1945 and 1950, this is kind of a dark spot in a lot of Americans history. They don't know. We gloss over it in public education and it's often very nuanced and nitty gritty about the names and the people.
00:11:22But what we find happening between 1945 and 1950 is congressional investigations into the influence that the Soviet Union had on the United States government started to kind of dig into the personnel in the State Department, the Treasury Department, the Agricultural Commissions, and to try to figure out labor as well.
00:11:41They tried to figure out where exactly was the Soviet influence because we were presenting this, you know, this front, this this presence saying the Soviet Union is an existential opponent to us.0.85
00:11:51We have to oppose them. In fact, we need to avoid any kind of contact with them, any kind of support of them.
00:11:57That was our public rhetoric. And what tended to happen, and this is what was so fascinating and what baffled the minds of people like McCarthy,
00:12:03was that in 1945, when they went to go look at the personnel records of the State Department
00:12:09employees, Harry Truman, the President of the United States, blocked access of the Congressional
00:12:14Investigating Committees. So there were individuals who were in the State Department,
00:12:18who were in the Treasury Department, people like Harold Dexter White. These people were known to
00:12:24be communists by the government. People like Alger Hiss, known communists who were being
00:12:29protected by the State Department, by the administration of Truman, and ostensibly by
00:12:35the FDR administration, though. And I really like the way you frame it of we are kind of in the
00:12:39shambling corpse of FDR's tomb. The managerial state was his creation. Truman inherited that
00:12:45many of these things were already in progress. So, you know, got to give him a little bit of
00:12:47slack there. But ultimately, he made decisions, he chose to lock out these investigative committees.
00:12:52And that caused a serious breach of trust between the elected legislature, both the Congress and
00:12:58the Senate and the executive branch. And this wasn't solved upon the election of Eisenhower.
00:13:04In 1954, Eisenhower further locked down these staffing records, these histories. And he actually
00:13:11dictated that the department heads should be the only people who talk to the congressional
00:13:15committees on investigation, never the actual employees themselves. So there was this persistent,
00:13:20almost bipartisan consensus to protect the holdover FDR State Department and the holdover
00:13:26FDR labor commissions to make sure that they were still powerful and influential and didn't affect
00:13:32their employees, didn't affect their staffing that had mostly been dictated by FDR. It was a very
00:13:37strange thing. So McCarthy comes in, he sees this, and he says, well, wait, something is not right
00:13:42here. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark. And he starts to investigate this and gets
00:13:45stoned well to every turn. For example, the only reason that we know Alger Hiss was a confirmed
00:13:50communist is because someone stole the State Department file and gave it to a sitting
00:13:55congressman that's the only reason we know otherwise it would have been locked down we
00:13:59would have been unsure if he was if he was an active communist agent at the time but we know
00:14:03it for a fact because people were brave and they came out and they disclosed this information
00:14:07so what i think happened in 1945 to 1950 is americans became incredibly skeptical of what
00:14:15the official line they were getting from the federal government was regarding communist
00:14:19infiltration mccarthy was able to take up the standard and say look there clearly is not a
00:14:24level of transparency transpiring here. We need to have some kind of transparency in order to
00:14:29understand what is going on, because we are engaging in mass mobilization in something
00:14:34that is a quasi global war, but isn't really while we are sending. And you have to remember,
00:14:38foreign aid was developed in order to prevent communist subversion of foreign countries.
00:14:43And yet here we are. We have people in the State Department who are active communists
00:14:47directing foreign aid. Something's not right here. We need to investigate. And that's really
00:14:51what triggered mccarthy's passion in his crusade which sadly wasn't successful because today
00:14:57communist infiltration may be more powerful than it's been since the 1940s so you're telling me
00:15:03that the state department has always been a vehicle for distributing aid to communists in the
00:15:08in the global i would i would argue that the state department has been a vehicle for distributing
00:15:13aid to communists since at least post-world war ii explicitly and i would argue that it happened
00:15:19even prior to World War Two in the 1930s and 40s early on. It was a little bit more clandestine at
00:15:25the time. And there's some stray facts here and there. Like, for example, in 1921, even Herbert
00:15:31Hoover set up an international aid organization to help stop starvation in Russia. This saved the
00:15:37Soviet Union. The Soviet Union would not be around today, would not have been around in 1930 if not0.53
00:15:42for the aid Americans presented to it. And this is kind of getting into what you were getting at0.51
00:15:46before about how we don't want to spoil it, but what happened after McCarthy and what kind of
00:15:50happened in the Cold War period, there is something that the John Birch Society referred to as the
00:15:55great pretense. So the great pretense is how do you say that you're going to fight communism,
00:15:59but actually support communism? And what we see throughout that period of about 1945 to 1965
00:16:06is the United States is explicitly saying that it will reject communism, fight it wherever it's at.
00:16:12in korea we have to fight a war over it but implicitly on the subversive side we are sending
00:16:19aid we are training people like ho chi minh we are uh radical or we are arming the non-radical
00:16:25non-soviet left in many countries which is acting to remove what would be i would call
00:16:31natural anti-communist allies uh people like uh i believe his name is phao dang the emperor of
00:16:36vietnam who was an anti-communist and who was an imperialist because he's the emperor right
00:16:41or organizations that maybe weren't on the up and up.
00:16:45They were slightly criminal organizations,
00:16:46but they were anti-communist in their nature.
00:16:49And instead of either trying to organize them
00:16:52and utilize them to prevent communist subversion
00:17:10who are still supporting communism so even in the early 60s and the late 50s you have members
00:17:15of the state department who are still supporting communism globally so there is a lot to unpack
00:17:22there um let me start i guess from the beginning uh for some inside baseball many people who are
00:17:28watching this might not be familiar with the john birch society uh but anytime you get a kind of
00:17:34mainstream conservative figure talking about william f buckley uh one of the things they'll
00:17:39mention is he's you know he's a great guy because he drove out all the crazy people from the right
00:17:43including the birchers and one of the reasons that they uh will attack the birchers i don't
00:17:50think many of them know anything really they just kind of spout that off that as a line there but
00:17:55one of the things that they'll say it's like well the birchers were too radical and i don't know how
00:18:00you can be too radically anti-communist actually like uh you know i'm i'm a i'm a helicopter ride
00:18:04guy myself uh but ultimately i i think that uh the idea that william f buckley is a hero for purging
00:18:12the most radically anti-communist people on the right should tell you maybe something about the
00:18:17people who are holding that up as an achievement that said i want you to get to take a moment
00:18:22to perhaps talk about the organization and its position on this because the moment many people
00:18:28will point to is the bircher said that eisenhower was a communist and when they said that then they
00:18:34lost all credibility and uh you know and ultimately i mean the the idea it at some point people might
00:18:41have thought the idea that there was some globalist communist conspiracy theory was crazy
00:18:45now it's just something literally every right-wing host says all day every day because it's so
00:18:50obvious it's painful so when you guys were that right that early on it makes me wonder if you
00:18:56were really that wrong that early on and so the question i guess i'll pose to you is did did the
00:19:02birch society say that eisenhower was a communist and if so is there sufficient evidence to back
00:19:08that up so the birch society itself did not say that eisenhower is a communist our founder robert
00:19:14welch wrote a private book which was distributed around and has eventually published officially
00:19:19called the politician which was essentially a breakdown of eisenhower's behavior going back
00:19:24as far as pre-world war ii his behaviors during world war ii his behaviors on the civilian side
00:19:29before he became president at Columbia University, when he was the president of Columbia University,
00:19:33and then his actions as the president, and basically broke down and said,
00:19:37here are all the actions that Eisenhower did, like Operation Keelhaul, which supported communism
00:19:44globally, which supported the spread of communism in Korea, which supported the spread of communism
00:19:49in Europe. And essentially, the conclusions that one of the many conclusions that Robert Welch came
00:19:54to was that it is possible that eisenhower is a knowing agent of the communists in america now
00:20:01is that a fact is that known do we have uh proof of this we do not have any proof that eisenhower
00:20:06himself was a communist agent we know that he did make it very difficult for investigative
00:20:10committees in congress to identify communists even when he was the president and we know that
00:20:15he allowed communists to thrive at columbia university when he was the president there
00:20:18We know that his actions were supporting communism in Europe when he was the general there, when he was supreme allied commander.
00:20:27And interestingly enough, his biography of his time in Europe was ghostwritten by a communist.
00:20:33So these are all like really coincidental things.
00:20:35And we can't really say for certain if Eisenhower was a tried and true communist or if maybe he was just sympathetic to some of the aims that the Soviets or the non-communist left had globally.
00:20:45And at the time, this wasn't that uncommon.
00:20:47You had a lot of people on the left who said, you know, we are for many of the things here like egalitarianism, equality.
00:20:53What's wrong with these? What's wrong with these principles?
00:20:55And you see people say that they don't support the Soviet Union, but they support some of their aims.
00:21:00And it's possible that Eisenhower was just sympathetic to these groups and was sympathetic to these people.
00:21:05But the John Birch Society did not ever say Eisenhower was a communist.
00:21:09This was something that Bill Buckley picked up from our founder, Robert Welch, as one possible explanation.
00:21:15He then used that as a kind of pretext to then remove people like the John Birch Society from the right wing of American politics.
00:21:41He would go after anybody and everybody who questioned the status quo coming out of FDR's New Deal and the permanent managerial revolution that we had experienced.
00:21:51And not only would that happen on the government side, but on the social side.
00:21:55So when we look at the history of the 1960s and the 1970s, radical leftist terrorists, communists like the Black Panthers, communists like the Weather Underground, these people were active and they were doing real harm to the country.
00:22:07And while all this is going on, you have people like William F. Buckley worried about policing the right. So when we have radical violence from leftists going on in this country, people like William F. Buckley seem to just crop up out of mere coincidence and say the right has gone too far. They're identifying too many communists. They're going on witch hunts. They call it McCarthyism.
00:22:26And at the end of the day, what you see is the most effective people who are the most accurate during the time period are the ones who get targeted.
00:22:35And now we're looking down the barrel of 60 plus years from 1964.
00:22:38And wow, isn't it amazing that the subtext that's going on in America today is every single one of these radical leftists has communist Marxist presuppositions.
00:22:48Some of them don't even know that's what they believe, but that is what they believe.0.93
00:22:51And they will sit there and they will tell you that they are hearkening back to FDR, to Woodrow Wilson, to these past administrations that the Birchers have been talking about for decades.0.97
00:23:02Yeah, that is truly hilarious how much all of this is playing itself out again.0.70
00:23:08Once again, we find our conservative gatekeepers, their most important job is not to stop the spread of socialism in the United States.
00:23:20but then when you say well perhaps we should take measures to i don't know ban all third world1.00
00:23:25immigration all muslim immigration let's start deporting these people let's start denaturalizing0.95
00:23:30all of a sudden oh it's the communist control act yeah yeah oh wait too far too crazy you know1.00
00:23:35you you young men are too radical in your opposition to communism we have to do this
00:23:41very carefully um yeah this is all all very familiar that said uh as you point out here
00:23:48You have McCarthy's reaction to this. I don't think we have to get into the history of McCarthyism. People will probably be more familiar with that than anything else. But that said, I believe McCarthy dies in 57. Most people, I think today, even most conservatives would say, if anything, McCarthy didn't go far enough.
00:24:07His greatest failing was that he did not succeed in this. Now, as you point out, at that time, that was a very controversial opinion to have that we need to demonize this anti-communist crusader. But the implication of that failure is that we still had a high degree of communist infiltration in the United States going into the 1960s, which, of course, makes perfect sense when we see what happens with all of the different social movements occurring simultaneously right there.
00:24:36And this gets to the heart of the post I put out, which is why we see the rise of racism as a pejorative word in the 1960s.
00:24:44But Eisenhower wasn't the only guy who had a communist ghostwriting for him.
00:24:52So can you tell us a little bit about how communism worked its way into these civil rights, anti-war social justice movements moving into the 1960s?
00:25:04Actually, this is one of my favorite topics, because when you look at the history of communism in America, it's it's really easy for us to kind of get lost in the reads when it comes to talking about communism, because communism gets thrown around as this term all the time.
00:25:17What does it mean? You know, what are we talking about? Soviet communism, Chinese communism, right?
00:25:21Communism in South Africa. We talk about these different places and we kind of all lump it together under communism.
00:25:27And I think that we do this because it's easier to say communism than it is to say collectivism.
00:25:32And ultimately, communism is the idea of radicalizing some collective group, using them for revolutionary purposes.
00:25:39And so when we talk about the civil rights movement and its connection to communism, we actually have to go back to 1928.
00:25:45So there's a guy named Joseph Pagani. He writes under the name John Pepper.
00:25:49He writes a book called American Negro Problems.
00:25:51And this is basically the very first text that we could consider today, like critical race theory or radical black communism.0.80
00:25:58This was this idea that we needed to. And this is what Joseph Pagani says.
00:26:03He says we need to radicalize the black population in America because the proletariat doesn't seem like it's getting radicalized like we need to.0.86
00:26:11And if we use this black population, they can act as a wedge that we can use to get our policies through the American system of government to make it more socialist and more Marxist and more communist.0.94
00:26:21And you see this start in 1928, and then it kind of lulls.1.00
00:26:26There was an early civil rights movement or quasi-civil rights movement in the 1920s.
00:26:30It lulls because World War II occurs, and then once World War II ends, they pick up where they left off.
00:26:36And you see things like the U.N. 1950-51 Declaration on Race, which reads like it could be out of a DEI class today.
00:26:43And you see these things happen and then roll out into the 1960s.
00:26:46And by the 1960s, you have people like Stanley Levison, who is the ghostwriter you were referring to for Martin Luther King, who is the head treasurer of the Communist Party USA for a time.
00:26:57And he's directly connected to the SCLC and Martin Luther King's organizations backing the civil rights movement.
00:27:04So there's this constant thread of using the racial divisions in America in order to exacerbate these problems and then use that to push communist legislation.
00:27:15And in fact, it was, I believe, in 1964, Communist Party Chairman Gus Hall, who said that one of our top three issues is getting the Civil Rights Act passed.
00:27:25OK, well, that tells you a lot when you see that the Communist Party of America is backing the Civil Rights Act.
00:27:31They're not doing that because they're just hunky dory thinking, you know, this is just going to be good for everybody. They're doing that because it's good for communism in America. It made communism more powerful in America. It empowered the administrative state. It empowered these quasi political slash legal NGOs like the Southern Poverty Law Center and the ADL and what we would kind of consider today the civil rights regime.
00:27:54It empowered these organizations to become something more prominent in American life and kind of act as an enforcement mechanism on what we would consider today the DEI industrial complex.
00:28:07Got PC Optimum points? Visit Shoppers Drug Mart for the bonus redemption event and get more for your points.
00:28:13Friday, August 14th to Wednesday, August 19th. Valid in-store and online.
00:28:18so um i'm gonna ask you some leading questions here but i feel like you'll agree with me either
00:28:27way so uh you know i've made this argument many times over uh that we have had five republics
00:28:34in the united states and not one continuous government um we had you know the articles
00:28:39of confederation we had the constitutional government uh we had the government post
00:28:43lincoln of the 14th amendment uh and then we had uh the fdr regime uh and then the civil rights
00:28:50regime um of those two last republics to be really frank um as you have described them both of them
00:28:59are roughly founded in communism like that that's kind of the implication here especially once we
00:29:05get to the civil rights like maybe we can say the fdr one is half in half out he's just totalitarian
00:29:11in general and the sympathies of communism are ancillary to that but by the time we get to the
00:29:16civil rights movement i think it's very obvious that you know the entire language of the civil
00:29:21rights movement the language of the anti-war movement they're all deeply drenched in communism
00:29:26obviously communism is you know just taking over college campuses at this time uh you know the
00:29:31counterculture is entirely uh invest in the idea that communists were somehow uh morally superior
00:29:37And that was the solution forward. And so when I talk about the need to repeal the Civil Rights Act, again, I hear all the time how radical this is, how impossible it is.
00:29:48But when we're talking about getting rid of the Civil Rights Act and we're getting rid of the deep state, what we're really talking about is getting rid of the communist substructure that has been built into a large amount of American governments, which I know sounds crazy to people, right?
00:30:02Yeah, we've been communists for the last 60 years. How could that possibly be true? But when you look at the evidence here and what something like the Civil Rights Act was able to do, it basically gave America a Soviet mind control bureau that had the right to involve itself in literally every interaction from private business to corporations to education, even churches.
00:30:26is you know it doesn't matter what you're doing if in any way it can be tied back to some kind of
00:30:32public interest it's subject to the civil rights act and so if the civil rights act really was in
00:30:37many ways a vehicle to embolden the communists and to again soup up the power of the administrative
00:30:42state that was kind of that proto-communist institution then we're really talking about
00:30:47a really long game in which uh you know the the idea of the gramscian march through the
00:30:52institutions. Well, the Civil Rights Act is a key part of exactly that process.
00:30:58Yeah, absolutely. So Herbert Marc Hughes is a fascinating figure to kind of discuss this
00:31:03paradigm, because again, going back to what is communism, we really need to ask ourselves,
00:31:07what is American communism? American communism is its own unique kind of manifestation of the
00:31:14principles of communism. And actually, to kind of get to what you're saying about the Civil Rights
00:31:18Act, there's a fascinating 1953 document from Congress, an investigating committee called
00:31:24Interlocking Subversion in Government Divisions. And essentially what it covers is that, and tell
00:31:29me if you've heard this one before, communist subversion does not express itself as an explicit
00:31:35policy or an explicit program of aiding communism. It expresses itself as the manipulation of
00:31:42managerial outcomes and bureaucratic procedures in order to achieve aims which support communism.
00:31:48And so that is what the Civil Rights Act empowered. You mentioned this kind of like mind control secret police that exists because of the Civil Rights Act. That's the Community Relations Service. The Community Relations Service has so much shadowy money moving through it, and we really don't even know what it was doing today.
00:32:04It's been more or less defunded or been de-staffed by the Trump administration, but it's still an active part of our government, and it is able to function as a kind of Gestapo-like organization that comes in and tells people what to say when there is some kind of problem.
00:32:18And what they end up doing is they say they're going to try to down the tensions between racial groups when there is some kind of division, but what they end up doing is they end up exacerbating it, and they end up playing cover for bad actors, and they allow different forms of criminality to occur over and over and over again, and that is not by accident.
00:32:39That's by design, because this exacerbates racial tensions further.
00:32:43If you enforce the law equally, no one's upset.
00:32:46Yes, someone who goes to jail might be upset, but no one in the public is going to say, you
00:32:49know, that three-time, four-time offender, that guy doesn't deserve to be in jail for
00:38:58So we have a sitting congressman murdered by the Soviet Union with a missile.0.74
00:39:02and he didn't do anything so we have these instances where soviet aggression and soviet
00:39:07subversion was met with milk toast kind of wheat sauce responses and oftentimes it may not be the
00:39:14fault of reagan or nixon or any of these people who are actually in the presidential position
00:39:19but their managers their bureaucrats the people who are supposed to be below them in their
00:39:24departments who they don't have control over those people are allowing the communist subversion to
00:39:29continue or giving it a slap on the wrist and that nullifies the power of the presidency
00:39:33i think that is extremely important for people to understand i of course have written myself
00:39:41a book on this the total state about how liberal democracies are captured by this managerialism
00:39:46how ultimately uh you know this tyranny ends up destroying any representation of the interests
00:39:51of the people uh and so i think it's an incredibly powerful point that really drives home how you
00:39:57could have the rhetoric and maybe even in some instances the genuine desire to fight back against
00:40:02communism from different elected officials but ultimately they find themselves at best fighting
00:40:07against the subversion that has already captured the entire apparatus of the American government
00:40:12and at worst going along with it because they recognize that they're simply the only game in
00:40:16town and so I guess with the time we have left we should look at the current situation I think a lot
00:40:23of people again are you know screaming about socialism and these things at the moment and i
00:40:28think it is a real problem uh but i think the core of it is now very obvious you know don't get me1.00
00:40:33wrong i'm sure the chinese are subverting us and ideologically and the russians while no longer1.00
00:40:39being doctrinaire communists you know certainly have not grown any warmer to the united states0.98
00:40:44and so they're not looking for our best interests either but at this point it seems like the you
00:40:49communist infiltration is so deeply built into the structure of our culture the majority of it
00:40:54just comes internally it's just built into our academia it's built into our media and the plan
00:41:00from our leaders seems to be since we could never completely successfully sell this project of
00:41:06communism to the population of the united states is simply to replace it now the idea is if we move0.52
00:41:11enough third worlders in maybe they're ideologically communist maybe they just want your stuff but0.98
00:41:17either way they kind of move the ball forward right they provide uh that that revolutionary
00:41:22subject necessary to kind of drive the outcome that communists are looking for so you know when
00:41:29i talk to scholars like paul godfrey he's a little hesitant to call the current situation communist
00:41:34because he prefers to have that kind of doctrinaire economic version of marxism maintain that as where
00:41:41you know he says today we're just looking at basically out of control managerial liberalism
00:41:47So what would be your take on that? Are managerial liberalism and communism just two sides of the same coin? Is this just communism with American characteristics, or is there a real delineation there? And if so, what do you think is the greatest threat of communism continuing to spread in the United States?
00:42:04I understand Paul Gottfried's position to try to keep communism to the economic model. And I do understand that tendency. But I think that if we want to fully understand the scope of the 20th century and what really happened, right, like this is the important fact is what happened in the 20th century that led us to where we are today.
00:42:21We have to acknowledge that American communism is not an economic program. It is a cultural program. It is a cultural program that manifested itself through labor unions, capturing educational and credentialing pipelines, which led to the default normalization of communist, progressive and radical leftist tendencies within our country.
00:42:42And specifically within our organizations, such as departments, agencies, non-governmental organizations, these kind of infrastructure, these critical infrastructure to cultural and societal functioning, this default progressivism, this default leftism is a form of cultural communism, which is why – and I think it's the only logical explanation for why in the 2020s, the late 2016s, right?
00:43:11We see this explosion of really radical cultural transformations like the transgender movement and the Black Lives Matter movement.
00:43:19These are the logical endpoints of many of these tendencies that were inculcated in the 1960s and 1970s through cultural communism, which is what Frankfurt School communism is.0.59
00:43:29It's what Herbert Marcuse and it's what Gramsci talks about.
00:43:32So we have to acknowledge that there is a different form of communism that is not just economic in order to properly understand the 20th century and how we got here today.
00:43:40And I would say that the greatest threat that we face right now, because we actually live in a really opportunistic time when it comes to fighting back against communism, because of the internet, because of free speech, because of the proliferation of information across the world in ways that never would have been imaginable even 40 years ago.
00:44:00More people know about these things than ever before.
00:44:02They are incredibly skeptical of what's going on in their country and what has happened.
00:44:09They see that a third of their income is taken by Social Security, which is a socialist policy.
00:44:14They see that the tax burden has gone up and deficit spending has gone up and nothing seems to be getting better.
00:44:20And things seem to be getting worse, no matter how much luxury they have, no matter how many self-driving cars, automated radios or cell phones they have.
00:44:28Things seem to be getting generally worse in their country.
00:44:30So I think that we have this opportunity right now as Americans to have a real honest reckoning, a truth and reconciliation on what exactly communism meant in the 20th century in America and what exactly it means today.
00:44:44And we have the ability now in order to purge some of our institutions, clear them out of this negative influence, which has been festering for decades, generations.
00:44:52And we can actually use this opportunity to increase the basic education level of the American citizenry, give them effective action plans to identify these subversive elements, and then use the friendly administration, hopefully now and in the 2030s, in order to purge these elements.
00:45:30I'm okay with the fact that communists supported this for their own gain and that it has harmed this country because, well, it solved some of our problems.
00:45:41I don't think so. I think race relations are worse than they've been in a long time in this country.
00:45:46We have a history of assimilation and we have a history of incorporating vast different groups into our country and making them truly American.0.85
00:45:53This is a unique quality to America. No other country has really been able to do this.
00:45:57And it's still a fresh experiment. But we've been able to do this when we actually identify subversive elements,
00:46:04remove them, force the assimilation process and create a system that reifies American interests
00:46:10before any other interests. I think that that is our biggest threat is these elements on the right
00:46:16who sit there and tell us that everything is fine with 1964. Everything is fine with 1986.
00:46:22Just get back on the Reagan bus and, you know, go for lower taxes. That's the biggest threat to
00:46:27America, not because they're communists, but because they take these American communist
00:46:32presuppositions as the default. They say, this is what I grew up in. I'm the fish swimming in the
00:46:37water. I don't want to swim in something else. But young Americans like me, I'm 27. Young Americans
00:46:43have to live in the future. And we see what's going on. We see that the digital panopticon is0.99
00:46:48being built up. Digital ID is being implemented. States like Texas, which should be freedom
00:46:53bastions, which should be defending your right to free speech, are trying to lock down the internet.
00:46:57We see that the administration isn't protecting us against flock and digital surveillance.
00:47:02And we see that there is a massive push by Republicans, not just Democrats, but Republicans to normalize this mass surveillance, which will be used to enslave us like a Chinese system of social credit.
00:47:13That is the real threat right now. And it's not coming from the left. They're disparaged or they're they're disorganized.
00:47:19They kind of have an idea of what to do. I have my own theories about where they're going in the 2028 election.
00:47:23But the left itself is not organized in the same way that the right is.
00:47:29We have a figure who is the de facto leader of the movement right now in Donald Trump.
00:47:33We have a number of really powerful pundits who are divided on a bunch of issues but have serious followings and dedicated, really well-thought-out platforms.
00:47:41And they come from all sorts of parts of the American historical right.
00:47:45And then we have the left, which is scattered, trying to fight amongst itself about should we endorse DSA candidates?
00:47:50Should we accept Hassan Piker into our coalition?
00:47:53They're still having these divisions. But on the right, these gatekeepers are trying to send us back to 2008, send us back to 1994 because they think that they can turn the clock back and return us to what they believe was the best time in America or a better time in America where we had solved these racial problems.
00:48:10We had solved these these issues of subversion and division. But that wasn't really the case. It wasn't that we had solved these divisions. It wasn't that we had made these things go away. We had just covered them up.
00:48:20We had used the government power to enforce a silence across the nation to avoid having these conversations about what it means to be an American and what exactly we need to do to put American interests first.
00:48:32Yeah, I think there's a lot of truth there.
00:48:35And when you talk about the desire for flock cameras and AI surveillance and all of these things, it's very clear that one of the reasons they want to usher this in is, well, because they brought in so many people who were unassimilable.0.94
00:48:46I think you're right that America is largely a pan European experiment. And, you know, well, to be fair, it took us quite a while to go ahead and bring in populations like the Germans or the Irish or the Italians.0.78
00:48:59It took generations to assimilate common cultures, cultures that are similar to ours.
00:49:04Exactly. And so I think that I think that there is no mistake that they that many of these people decide to start bringing in cultures that they knew were just unassemblable because ultimately that provides the excuse for the tyranny.
00:49:16Well, we're not going to be able to assimilate the Haitians. We're not going to be able to assimilate the Somalians. We're not going to be able to assimilate many of these populations. They're just too far outside. And so what do we need? We need constant surveillance from the government. They need power so that they can go ahead and solve the problem they created. Who's ever seen that formula before?0.93
00:49:34uh you know and so so i think you're right that this is uh i think we're able to do that early
00:49:39on but i think we probably hit our limit in our ability to assimilate those people and now the
00:49:44powers that be are are fighting uh to use that against us and i think that's also as you say
00:49:48why there was such a backlash against trump because they recognize that at you know at some
00:49:53level i know people have different you know levels of satisfaction with the trump administration at
00:49:57this point but they recognize that trump was a real danger to that standing system where both
00:50:03sides get to play as if they're in opposition to the deep state in opposition to the soft communism
00:50:09but ultimately they're both playing along with it and don't have any illusions ultimately of no
00:50:15matter what their rhetoric is the people who are suddenly trying to return us back gatekeep the
00:50:19right keep people from getting radical all these things they are trying to do that because they're
00:50:23trying to protect that soft communist system they'll attack you they'll say you're a socialist
00:50:28for thinking that you should you know care about whether young people can buy housing in the united
00:50:32states that's not what socialism guys i'm sorry that's not socialism in the united states socialism
00:50:38is when a woman goes to jail for saying the wrong word to a guy in minnesota yes that's what that's
00:50:45what that that's what real socialism is well the sad thing is that we don't even attempt to
00:50:51assimilate these groups we actually use taxpayer funds to stop the assimilation process we subsidize
00:50:56their living standards we allow them to create ethnic enclaves and then that exacerbates this0.88
00:51:01problem. Springfield, Ohio is the perfect example. They brought in a bunch of Haitians. You brought1.00
00:51:05the Haitians up. They brought in a bunch of Haitians. They subsidize their standard of1.00
00:51:09living using social welfare that American taxpayers pay for. That subsidizes the labor
00:51:14of these factories that brought in these Haitian workers that employ them. And then they sit there0.98
00:51:18and they say they're unassimilatable. And well, you didn't even try to assimilate them. We had
00:51:23really rigorous assimilation programs for Germans, Italians, Greeks, groups that came out of the
00:51:28post-World War II period and that were common to us and we need something even more intense if we
00:51:33even wanted to try an assimilation they're not even trying and that's what kind of gives away
00:51:37the game to me is that we sit there and we say oh my god there's nothing we can do we have to
00:51:42enforce this panopticon we have to create the security state but you're not even trying to do
00:51:47a solution besides the security state you're actually actively working against it i mean we
00:51:51literally broke up german-speaking communities uh you know forcibly to to create that level of1.00
00:51:58assimilation and you're exactly right we would never imagine doing anything that with a somali0.92
00:52:01community or haitian community that would be racist that would be i would violate the civil0.97
00:52:05rights act well wait what what is the civil rights act for oh yes what does it even do
00:52:09yeah it all becomes so clear all right well this has been a fascinating conversation but we are
00:52:14stacking up a lot of questions from the audience and i don't want to keep you forever so uh we're
00:52:19going to head over to the questions of the people but before we do jay where should people find your
00:52:22work where should they look for the jbs what's going on with you guys you can find me on twitter
00:52:27at y underscore s wargo that's y underscore s w a r g o on x slash twitter and you can find the
00:52:35jbs at jbs.org as well as on x instagram and facebook as the john birch society or at the jbs
00:52:43excellent all right guys you can check out plenty of anti-communist resources there like i said
00:52:49got got one of my volumes right here you can check them out uh that said let's head over to
00:52:53the questions sean wyland says managerialism is just soft communism see we beat you to it i did
00:53:00i promise i didn't read your uh i didn't read your uh super chat beforehand neoliberal transfer
00:53:05of gdp share from the household consumption to large institutions is literally a soviet
00:53:10development model hence our uh brezhnev stagnation yeah this is something that sam francis talked
00:53:16about in leviathan's enemies uh the the destruction of hard property this is a way this is this is a
00:53:22another way to destroy the kulaks is making sure that that hard property is transferred into these0.55
00:53:28large institutions instead of being held by individual families and people and that destroys0.83
00:53:34the community so uh i sounds like you already agree but managerialism is soft communism yeah
00:53:39i would say in many ways managerialism um especially when you look at like the progressive
00:53:43model that wilson implemented it was very much inspired by the socialists and the early communists
00:53:48And then when you look at when you say the transfer of these resources into kind of large conglomerate organizations, you even see that happening in the private sphere with the foundations.
00:53:58And we could talk for hours on the history of foundations in this country.
00:54:01But even foundations like the Ford Foundation have been co-opted and used to support communist policies abroad and domestic subversive elements here in America.
00:54:11Yeah, that's probably an episode we should do at some point here.
00:54:14uh principled uncertainty says this might all be true and probably is but the moment has shifted
00:54:20across the west the right blue the moment so badly that we should dig our own graves uh i mean man
00:54:25that's great yeah no sorry like the worst thing you can do is think you can do nothing yeah yeah
00:54:31we're not doing learned helplessness here now don't get me wrong i think it's important to
00:54:35understand where you're at some people will call me some black pillar or doom doomer or whatever
00:54:40because i'm honest about where we are i don't think it does us any good to blow smoke or make
00:54:45things easier or tell ourselves that ultimately uh you know the the problem is not that big that
00:54:50doesn't do us any good that said no there sorry there is always a fight left there is always a
00:54:55chance that we can prevail and uh for the reasons that jay laid out the the left is in several ways
00:55:01on their back foot whether you know as as i know this is hard for people to grasp because of the
00:55:05level infighting that has gone on in the right right now but the only thing less popular than
00:55:09the gop right now is the democratic party like really their numbers are in the toilet so again
00:55:15that doesn't mean we should be making unforced errors like the iran war you know but ultimately
00:55:20sorry things are just not over and this is my country these are my people we're fighting to it
00:55:25to the bitter end that's all there is to it and that should be your you know position too and if
00:55:30it's not well time to get out brother because we we need all the people who are dedicated we'll get
00:55:34organized i mean this this is the key is we we've been saying people have been saying it's over
00:55:38for a hundred years, right? It's not over. It's that we need to be organized and active and
00:55:44effective. And really it starts in your local community. So when someone says that they're
00:55:48like, oh, it's over, dig your own grave. Actually, the very first thing you should do is you go to
00:55:52your city council meeting and see how few people show up. When you see how few people show up,
00:55:57if you can get 10 people, and that sounds like a lot to start, but 10 people who consistently
00:56:02apply pressure to their local government, you will see how fast switches flip in your life.
00:56:07well and this is why you know you have the john birch society you have the organizations i'm a
00:56:12part of like the old glory club there are more and more organizations that are getting out there
00:56:17getting politically active working in their community uh there are young men who are interested
00:56:22in building the future that you are also looking towards you need to bind together with these
00:56:27people okay that's what this is all about the dedicated organized minority rules the disorganized
00:56:33majority yes elite theory 101 so if you want to be in charge then i guess you better be the
00:56:39organized minority get it together start now stop crying cherry coat nixon says laughable to think0.96
00:56:47that bolsheviks just vanished in 1991 they're just wearing a very gay islamic rapper now0.83
00:56:52hassan piker is the new uh emma goldman uh i wonder how hassan piker would feel about that
00:56:59uh particular uh implication but yeah i mean obviously there's some truth yeah there there
00:57:05is some truth there yeah yeah well it's it's transitioned uh com like the the explicit because
00:57:10there's always been the kind of implicit and the explicit communist element there are those and i
00:57:15believe there were some members of the communist party who literally said they could get more done
00:57:20by calling themselves socialists or democratic socialists than calling themselves communists
00:57:23The explicit element of the Communist Party in America has become much more third world oriented, and that's because of replacement migration and the implementation of third world populations into America.
00:57:36That's why Zoran Mamdani, who is like the child of Operation Airlift Africa, right?0.82
00:57:42This guy who is groomed to be in a leadership position, he is a third worldist, but he's also a socialist and a communist.
00:57:49He's not just a domestic communist. He's not just acting in a sense of like an almost a Stalin style where it's about national communism. He is focusing on the implementation of policies that promote more third world migration.
00:58:02Yeah, it is whether it is purely ideological or simply third world tribalism. Again, these forces are working together to destroy the American nation. And ultimately, that is the communist goal.0.89
00:58:14yes uh cherry coke nixon again says ussr managed to snatch poland the entire reason for world war
00:58:21ii fdr truman got cucked and enjoyed it churchill gets the blame for the fallout um you know that
00:58:30was the deal that that was the deal they made a deal about that yeah yeah it's it's hard it it
00:58:36gets harder and harder to look at the end of world war ii and nazi communists carving up you know
00:58:41what's left of the what's left of the globe in one way or another uh he also says nixon knew
00:58:46what to do with commune with commies why won't trump uh we've got sean wyland again says the
00:58:54plan uh the plan norman dodd articulated about merging our central banking with the soviets
00:58:59actually materialized with china instead with dang jim pao after the jamaica accords hence the great
00:59:07moderation uh do you want to uh dip into any of that at all i don't know how long i think that
00:59:13that would be better for a conversation on foundations because we're getting into norman
00:59:16dodd but i mean that's i would say that's pretty true um when it comes to the the merging of
00:59:24american economy and american industrial power and i guess merging is the wrong word the transfer
00:59:30of american industrial power and the merging of american banking with the communist chinese um
00:59:36It's a fascinating history. And like we could really talk about that for hours.
00:59:39But it is it is more or less true that what was imagined under what Dodd explains did occur under Nixon and did occur during the entente between Russia, communist China and the American political establishment.
00:59:57And I think this is where I mean, I have a lot of respect for Nixon.
01:00:01He was probably our most intelligent president, but I think this is where Nixon made one of his
01:00:05gravest mistakes, which is that he really felt he could outsmart these people who had been playing
01:00:11this game for 60, 70 years. He thought that he was going to be able to angle America into a position
01:00:18where they could unyoke themselves from globalist and international influences, but ultimately,
01:00:23before he was able to implement and execute finally on that kind of vision, and this is my
01:00:28opinion he was taken out i mean he just he he was taken out by watergate and they they planned it
01:00:33it was not we know now that watergate was not ah nixon you know he was this nefarious machiavellian
01:00:39who wanted to break into the the democrat headquarters and steal these documents no
01:00:42he was in many ways framed and he was then given information which made him liable for this pro for
01:00:48this crime yeah i think that's an increasingly popular view even on the mainstream right at this0.94
01:00:54point uh nixon says how did the cia go from cold warriors to shit libs um i have terrible news for0.89
01:01:01you brother well i mean that's another again that could be another hour conversation so the oss test0.94
01:01:06the early intelligence agency which spawns the cia was a really mixed bag it was not just communists
01:01:12and it wasn't just right-wingers it was people from all sorts of different stripes i mean you
01:01:17got to think about it who's going to be a spy right these people are often ideologically motivated
01:01:21motivated. They're incredibly talented. They come into many different kinds of fields. They could be
01:01:26in fields like Hilaire du Barriere was an OSS agent. He was a pilot and a barnstormer, right?
01:01:31But also he was an OSS agent. You have someone like John Birch himself. John Birch was an OSS
01:01:37agent. He was a Christian and a Baptist missionary in China, right? So these are people who were not
01:01:42left-wing. They were right-wing, and they were involved in the early intelligence agency. It
01:01:46seems to be sometime after World War I, there was a purging of those right-wing elements,
01:01:51which made the CIA ultimately lean more heavily left wing and led over time that that that kind of multiplies on itself and it makes itself more known.
01:02:03So by the time we get around to the 1980s, the 1990s, the 2000s, those organizations are now almost explicitly left wing.
01:02:09uh bamangilo says uh can we get bbw and bbl nationalism again i'm not sure what that means
01:02:19or if i want to know so we'll move on uh cherry coke nixon says uh hot take tp usa was set up to
01:02:26be this generation's jbs but now it's turning into con inc style young republican college republicans
01:02:31as momentum slows uh i would not it's unfair yeah i would not i would not judge that to be the case
01:02:38um talk to any young guy at the tb usa right now talk to any of them and they're going to sound a
01:02:44lot more like uh this show than they are finn shapiro well you know i think i think turning
01:02:50point is a big tent i i have a lot i have a lot of respect for what turning point has been able
01:02:55to do to bring in these disparate elements and that's really the legacy of charlie kirk i mean
01:02:59it was it was beautiful being at amfest 2025 and seeing the john birch society and the reagan
01:03:05caucus, and all these different groups that normally would never get along all together
01:03:10under one roof in a winning coalition. I mean, I don't think there's not a place for these
01:03:15more moderate elements in the right, you have to have that. And in many cases, they are
01:03:19correct. And they have accurate descriptions of what's going on, even if they disagree
01:03:23on what the policy solution is for an issue, or what you know, we should do about something
01:03:28we may we can disagree on on the solutions. But they as long as we agree on the facts,
01:03:33that's what matters. So we can actually come to some kind of compromise. Those groups are
01:03:36important. And I don't think that Turning Point USA is just con ink. You're right. There's a lot
01:03:41of and personnel is always gonna be policy. There's a lot of young men, a lot of young people
01:03:45who understand all of these things that we're talking about, and some cases even better than
01:03:48what the way we're expressing them. And they just don't talk about it publicly, because it is
01:03:53difficult. It doesn't feel like the rest of the or not not Turning Point, but the rest of the
01:03:58ecosystem will back them up. And in some cases, it's overtly hostile to them. So they kind of
01:04:02hide their power levels yeah i i think you're right that charlie's focus was on ecumenicalism
01:04:08in the right and just making sure that it was the most effective broad uh reaching uh movement that
01:04:13it could be and uh you know obviously we needed that because post his death that's become uh that
01:04:18the you know lack of a figure who can kind of galvanize all of those pieces together has become
01:04:23uh you know desperately noticeable uh jacob zindell says i enjoy watching the leftist heads
01:04:29explode when I inform them that actually the John Birch Society is one of the first right-wing
01:04:33organizations to allow Catholics, Jews, and Mormons. Cheers. So true. Well, so this is what0.99
01:04:40I always say. Not everyone can be a member of the John Birch Society. It's not a matter of what you
01:04:45believe or where you come from. It's a matter of your belief in America. If you truly are a person
01:04:51who has ingratiated themselves, assimilated into the American system, you believe yourself you're
01:04:56first and foremost an american you can be a member of the john birch society if you're willing to put
01:05:01skin in the game and defend america as it was meant to be america that was intended in 1776
01:05:07if you were willing to do that then you could be a member of the john birch society but we don't
01:05:11want people who don't want to defend america so not everybody can be a member sean also says the
01:05:18uh the venona project proved that mccarthy was right yes i yes i should have mentioned we have
01:05:25confirmed from soviet records the venona project or the venona records that many of these people
01:05:31were explicit so like literally in contact with the soviet union so it's not like this is conjecture
01:05:36this is all fact these people we know them they know that we know their names we know they were
01:05:40in contact there was at least three named cells the silver master cell uh the perlo cell and the
01:05:48waiter cell i believe though i may be wrong on the last one's name but there was at least three
01:05:53named cells and two unnamed cells that we know of as a fact and there were dozens of other communist
01:05:58agents that we don't know who they were but they were active in the u.s government in the period of
01:06:021945 to 1950 and they did incalculable damage to this country lord henry says uh were lincoln and
01:06:10the early republicans also socialists communists uh was the republican reconstruction socialism
01:06:16that this is a conversation for a whole nother hour or two hour episode because lincoln himself
01:06:23is an again fascinating figure he had some sympathies to marxism he definitely he talked
01:06:28about it there was connections between john brown early radical socialists and the early marxists
01:06:33of the 1800s like 1848 at the 48ers but that is a conversation that probably could go in its own
01:06:38episode yeah we're we're we're racking up future episode topics here guys don't worry uh cherry
01:06:44cook nixon says buckley uh national review babylon b etc police the right but dims institutions wink
01:06:50and nod at dsa commies and lob the big tent with diverse ideas ah yeah i think we've we've probably
01:06:58repeated this many times over but it's very clear that there's a large amount of uh the establishment
01:07:03of conservatism that simply exists to make sure that effective uh organization against the left
01:07:08is not achieved yes uh principled uncertainty says nick griffin uh has been on a journey
01:07:14not exactly sure that reference yeah sorry about that man uh he says the problem is that the
01:07:20government hasn't tipped the uh scales uh tip the scales someone else even less accountable does
01:07:27uh we have not found a way to address that yet and it's radicalizing young uh young quite uh
01:07:34quite rightly. Well, I think we do know a lot of the people that are tipping the scales and many
01:07:40of them are in government. You know, as we say, the entire purpose of much of the Civil Rights
01:07:45Act was to tip scales in a particular direction. We see this with the fact that anti-white policies
01:07:51were not punished for an extremely long time. The Trump administration is really the first
01:07:56Republican or any administration of my lifetime that's even bothered to go after, you know,
01:08:26uh donald uh donald donnie de witt probably uh isn't managerism kind of locked in at a ratchet
01:08:36landian since ai is already out of the cage for example and we got and we really cannot press the
01:08:41stop button because the intrinsic game theory of if we don't use it they will yeah there's a lot
01:08:46of truth to this and this is a problem that i've struggled with quite a bit uh the the problem the
01:08:51question you want to ask yourself is is church and right about the declining marginal utility
01:08:57and complexity is that actually what collapses societies or these types of social systems
01:09:03the problem is of course because managerialism is so deeply built into our current system
01:09:08the collapse of managerialism would be the collapse of the current order if we want to
01:09:12return i've said this many times over no matter how angry it makes people we want to return to
01:09:16constitutional government the united states you're going to need a revolution like that it would
01:09:20functionally be so revolutionary to actually run our country as if it was under the constitution
01:09:26that it would look as if we had some kind of revolution in the united states i think it would
01:09:30be more of a uh you know uh you know a return than revolution but ultimately we have to see
01:09:37the ability of kind of radical change to occur by disassembling some of these and this is why
01:09:42when people tell me we can just use the managerial system for our ends i i think they're deluding
01:09:48themselves because they don't understand that the structure itself is bringing about this uh
01:09:53this end like you what you are the very nature of the managerial structure is producing exactly
01:09:58the society you're living in and if you try to turn it towards your ends you will simply be
01:10:03using the wrong tool and then produce the same outcome uh but this is a very complex question
01:10:09we probably can't go all the way deep into it i've i've devoted an entire yes another future
01:10:13episode marked up here he also says it'll have uh i will have to respectfully ask the jbs gentleman
01:10:21on the question why did the jbs tone police and gate keep identitarians from the jbs uh we oppose
01:10:28all forms of collectivism and so when people get into really hardcore identitarianism they can
01:10:34often find themselves becoming tools of and i'm not trying to be too hegelian here but in tools
01:10:40of the communist dialectic where they propose and the SPLC is the master of this right here is a
01:10:46hardcore identitarian movement look how scary and spooky they are we got to stop this and therefore
01:10:51you have to cut out everybody who advocates for Americans interests and putting Americans first
01:10:56so we oppose all collectivism when it comes to the essence of your identity we believe that the
01:11:02American identity is what should be put first and so we try to avoid I guess cultivating an
01:11:09identitarian ethos because that identitarian ethos can very quickly either a shift into
01:11:14communalism or be be used to disarm really good patriotic americans who are trying to do the work
01:11:20to put america first yeah i understand that i i do think the the phrase collectivism is a little
01:11:27fraught with difficulty if only because if if we're going to join together behind an american
01:11:31identity at some level that has to be collected and this is this is where the irony is and actually
01:11:36we're seeing this with JD Vance today where, you know, the John Birch Society has also been called
01:11:40socialist. We've been called communist, we've been called collectivist ourselves. And it's this idea
01:11:45of group organizing and trying to make sure that you have a unified message and a unified action
01:11:52item, right, or action projects that you can all work behind. And someone will point to that and
01:11:57say, if you're doing that for Americans, isn't that collectivism? We don't see it that way. We
01:12:01see that if you're advocating as an American for the American nation and for the American people,
01:12:06that's not collectivism that's good old-fashioned americanism well i i will just say this i think
01:12:12that at the core all politics is identity politics but the question is what identity is salient what
01:12:18identity are we forming around is it simply one of you know a raw crude you know race or something
01:12:25like that right or isn't an understanding of you know you know the the american nation as a people
01:12:31distinct i think from even european peoples yeah and that was the idea of the monroe doctrine we
01:12:37are well americans are distinct from europe and this is something that i think it's very difficult
01:12:41for a lot of young people on the right to grapple with is that america being a very new nation and
01:12:46being something that has only been around for not even 300 years we we feel a lot of connection and
01:12:53we have a lot of commonality with europe and we have a lot of commonality with these western nations
01:12:57But they are not America. They're not Americans. And they have different presuppositions, which is why Europe is in such a devastating situation. It's in right now. America is unique, not only in its ideas, but also in its people. And there was a selection effect when the people who became the first Americans came to America. They were particular groups. They weren't just particular, you know, subgroups of Europeans. They were particular subgroups of particular subgroups of Europeans. And then that expanded from there.0.71
01:13:24absolutely read your albion seed guys all right well we're gonna go ahead and wrap this up but
01:13:30jay it has been uh a pleasure and it sounds like uh we might have a few episodes in our future
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