The Auron MacIntyre Show - Speaking Hard Truths to Israel ｜ Guest： William Wolfe ｜ 10⧸12⧸26

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00:01:43.140 all right guys so recently there was a conference in israel it was the national conservatism

00:01:50.580 conference one that i've spoken at several times though always in the u.s version of that

00:01:55.020 and they had several americans over at the israeli conference to deliver some tough love to tell

00:02:01.360 israel about what's going on in the united states the state of the right how israeli relations can

00:02:06.240 be better with the u.s especially the people on the right as several friends of the show were

00:02:12.560 on this panel we had guys like jonathan keeperman uh and matthew peterson but william wolf gave a

00:02:18.960 great speech that got a lot of attention so i wanted to have him on to talk about it william

00:02:22.520 thank you so much for coming on man yeah orin really good to be here with you man love your

00:02:26.600 show glad to talk appreciate it so obviously maybe we can start with the conference itself

00:02:34.040 you and i have been part of natcon previously uh there are most of the natcons are in the united

00:02:40.120 States, but they've had them in the UK. I believe they had one in, was it, I don't know, it wasn't

00:02:46.000 Poland. I think it might've been Hungary, but somewhere in Eastern Europe. So this is not

00:02:51.400 simply a US-based event. This year they were having one in Israel, right? Kind of coinciding

00:02:58.420 with the events of 10-7. I think a lot of people notice the kind of symbolic nature of that. And so

00:03:05.440 I guess, first question to you, what did you think when you were asked to go give a speech

00:03:10.020 in Israel? Obviously, having attended this conference in America is one thing, but heading

00:03:15.020 to a foreign nation where there might be some questions about what's going on, the kind of

00:03:19.320 speech you're asked to give, what were your thoughts going into this? Yeah, thank you for

00:03:23.320 that question. So one interesting factoid is that it was actually originally scheduled for June of

00:03:28.600 this year. And when it was scheduled for June of this year, I was going to be busy with Southern

00:03:34.820 Baptist Convention happenings because that's in June of this year. That's in June every year. So

00:03:39.380 it got rescheduled to October. So I don't think they were necessarily trying to land it on those

00:03:43.460 dates, but you know, it was, um, it was something I thought hard about, right? Because, you know,

00:03:47.820 Yoram and I are friends and I'm not going to pretend like we aren't to satisfy some angry

00:03:51.840 people out there on the internet. Yoram's been good to me. He's given me opportunities to speak

00:03:56.060 at NatCon in America. And when he asked me to do it, uh, he sort of pitched it in the,

00:04:02.140 in the framing of like having the courage to come and do something like this, given how

00:04:06.300 hot the topic is. And I thought, you know what, this is sort of one of those things

00:04:11.020 that you're not supposed to talk about, which makes it one of the things that we absolutely

00:04:15.680 need to talk about. And I did not feel in any way, shape or form during the request

00:04:20.920 to the conference and back that anything was being obligated of me or anybody was censoring

00:04:27.540 anything I had to say. I mean, if that was the case, I would not have gone. Nobody screened my

00:04:32.060 remarks or anything like that. So I viewed it as an opportunity to go over there and engage in good

00:04:37.960 faith, but hard conversations. And there is something about it being in Israel that obviously

00:04:42.900 piques a lot of people's interest, which is why at the start of my talk, I made sure to just

00:04:46.500 double down on the fact that I'm an American patriot. I've been to Hungary. I've been to

00:04:50.940 Armenia. Nobody sort of raises questions about those things. I think American citizens can travel

00:04:55.480 abroad and speak about American interests in any country on the world. And in fact, or let me,

00:05:00.000 I'll close with this. We should be able to even do that in Israel. And by doing that, sort of try

00:05:04.960 to reset this relationship to a more sort of normalized engagement. If we can't do that,

00:05:10.500 then we're saying this is some country that we can't have a normal relationship with.

00:05:14.860 And I think we kind of all want that to happen. Yeah, that was certainly a theme of the panel.

00:05:20.600 Obviously, we're going to talk about your speech first, but guys like Matthew Peterson brought up

00:05:25.720 the fact that look america's relationship with israel is going to become a lot more normal you

00:05:30.860 guys are going to have to get used to that which is something i think a lot of people didn't want

00:05:34.360 to hear you know look you're going to need to provide real tangible benefits to the american

00:05:38.540 people you're not going to be able to rely on the fact that you know somewhere in the bible it says

00:05:43.320 you're supposed to believe uh and and you know always protect israel i think that was in your

00:05:47.580 remarks and that ultimately you know we have to be able to view our relationship with israel like

00:05:53.820 we do with the united kingdom or any other ally there shouldn't be any kind of special you know

00:05:58.960 protection that's granted or some kind of automatic credit that is granted to israel there also

00:06:03.820 shouldn't be any kind of inbuilt hostility but i think we all know that the reason you know this

00:06:08.780 feels so hot it feels so controversial is a lot of people think that we have because of previous

00:06:14.660 stances towards israel developed a relationship that can often be very unhealthy and i think for

00:06:19.620 both parties you know and i've seen some of this come from uh yoram's own organization some of the

00:06:25.160 guys who are aligned with it saying things like look we think that dependence on america is just

00:06:29.500 as bad for israel as it is for the united states that ultimately if we're going to be a sovereign

00:06:34.920 nation we can't always just assume that the united states has our back or you know the strings that

00:06:39.980 come attached with that if you're connecting yourself to the defense apparatus of another

00:06:44.600 nation, you're going to be under, you know, at some level dependent on them. And maybe you can

00:06:49.220 do a lot to influence what they're doing. But ultimately, you're still relying on the fact

00:06:53.060 that these people are backing your play. Without that, you're not really sovereign. So it doesn't

00:06:56.480 help either. If you truly believe in a nationalist ideology, if you believe that the nation state is

00:07:02.240 the best way to organize and that independent nation states should have sovereignty, then you

00:07:06.660 have to factor that in. And so I think that's why your speech and many of the other speeches in this

00:07:11.500 panel made everybody angry on one side it was a bunch of people saying hey look at all these

00:07:16.680 guys from america going over there to tell israel how to better you know manipulate america and then

00:07:22.180 on the other side you had a bunch of people saying oh look at these guys who went over to israel to

00:07:26.080 mock jewish people on 10-7 and and the holocaust and everything else and you know even ted cruz

00:07:32.020 was out there attacking uh you know jonathan keeperman on this kind of stuff that's how

00:07:36.120 unhinged and how big the remarks went so obviously uh this was a big splash but let's before we get

00:07:41.860 to the reaction let's get to your actual remarks what were you trying to communicate to uh the

00:07:47.520 people at natcon israel obviously people can watch your speech but the intention behind it like what

00:07:52.100 what when you were writing that when you were trying to think what would i say to a room like

00:07:56.360 this what was going through your head yeah just a couple basic things one trying to execute on

00:08:01.940 the mission that was given to us. I think people assume a lot of things about me. I think I'm an

00:08:07.780 eager and sort of honest operator. I think sometimes people then think that means I'm

00:08:12.460 foolish or not aware of what's happening. I'm very aware of the different things that are

00:08:16.680 happening here, but I was trying to execute on the mission to explain the basic question of why

00:08:20.560 support for Israel is waning on the American right. It's no secret that it's waning on the

00:08:25.720 American left, but it is waning on the American right. So I was trying to explain that. There's

00:08:29.760 so many different angles you could take. One of the things that I tried to start to do was to

00:08:34.620 frame the conversation in relationship to Jews in America, because the question of the geopolitical

00:08:42.140 relationship between the United States and Israel is one thing, but perception, particularly of Jews

00:08:48.500 and therefore Israel in America is another thing. So why would people on the right begin to be less

00:08:54.120 favorable towards Jews, towards Israel? Well, when you look at the data, it shows that the vast

00:08:59.320 majority of American Jews are fundamentally leftist. Now, I got a lot of pushback for this

00:09:03.620 one in particular, Oren, and I'm not surprised by it, I guess, because we were talking to a room

00:09:08.680 of who were essentially like Texas Israelis, like gun-toting, Torah-believing, children-having

00:09:16.040 conservatives. But what I was trying to tell that room is that that's not who we interact with in

00:09:22.100 America. We interact with the ADL. We interact with people who, like Mark Thiessen, calling me

00:09:27.220 an anti-Semite for saying my loyalty belongs to America first. So I wanted to sort of set the

00:09:32.800 relationship through that context first, particularly in regards to the right and how

00:09:38.140 many Jews are quite leftist in America. Not all of them, but most of them. It's a generic statement,

00:09:44.360 right? So that was the first thing I was trying to do. Then I wanted to try to offer just a couple

00:09:49.180 maybe suggestions for why this geopolitical relationship is being strained. And I do think

00:09:55.120 the fact we're a war weary nation is a big part of that. Um, you know, whatever you think about

00:10:00.240 the Iran war, the fact that it has gone on here, I think has contributed to this. If we had not

00:10:06.620 gone back to war in Iran, I think maybe these questions wouldn't be so heated right now. Um,

00:10:11.840 again, you can have lots of opinions on that, but I think that's, I'm just the messenger,

00:10:14.880 right? Don't shoot the messenger. Um, and then finally I was really trying to land and I should

00:10:19.120 have spent more time on this, but I was trying to think of like, well, what's, what's a good

00:10:22.360 path forward here. And you've talked about it a lot, but George Washington's farewell address,

00:10:27.240 let's try to chart a course between obsessive affection and obsessive animosity. And that was

00:10:33.280 really the kind of message I was trying to deliver. And then the last thing was, and look, I did this

00:10:37.680 and I did this on purpose, was defending J.D. Vance and telling everybody to back off. Because

00:10:43.060 I think in the American political environment, that's where this wedge issue is being deployed,

00:10:47.080 most particularly as we look at the 2028 election so i mean my speech kind of is what it was and

00:10:52.640 that was my reasoning behind it let me execute this mission let me offer some thoughts in the

00:10:56.680 brief time that i have and see what happens after that yeah i think there's a lot of important

00:11:02.480 points in there because you know as you say it's great to have some conservative jews out there

00:11:09.020 that are doing good work right like but ultimately people look at the aggregate and as you say when

00:11:14.900 we see elections pretty reliably jewish voters are 70 democrat right like that that's where

00:11:22.360 their support flows and this is you know in spite of the fact that the republican party has let's

00:11:27.620 be honest bent over backwards in an almost embarrassing way to court these voters uh it's

00:11:32.740 like almost like the black vote right like no matter what they do no matter how badly uh you

00:11:37.540 know black americans are treated by the democrats or how little they have to offer them uh ultimately

00:11:43.080 they don't care. They vote Democrat. And it seems to be very similar when it comes to Jewish

00:11:46.860 voters in the United States. And so you have to be able to think in categories here, right? You can

00:11:51.320 look at good, staunch Jewish conservatives doing strong work and say, we appreciate what you're

00:11:56.560 doing here. But when you see people looking at the majority of Jewish political actors in the

00:12:02.160 United States and most of their donations and most of their voting and most of the rhetoric

00:12:05.880 goes to the left, well, people get a particular perception. And I've actually had this conversation

00:12:10.400 directly with yoram saying you know i know that when uh you know someone goes off the reservation

00:12:17.620 on the issue of israel they're going to get a call from the establishment when someone runs around

00:12:23.000 and says something crazy like uh you know america is the second greatest country next to israel

00:12:28.480 uh like tammy bruce did when she was literally working for the state department that person's

00:12:33.400 not getting a call like there's no one who's going to chase that person down and correct them

00:12:36.940 And Tammy Bruce isn't Jewish, but you understand what I'm saying here.

00:12:39.460 Like there there is there seems to be a double standard as to when and where we kind of pursue these things.

00:12:44.180 And so if the national conservatism movement, especially when it comes to relationships with Israel, wants to be taken seriously, you need to start seeing tough language towards people who are not acting appropriately on that side from the Israeli side or even when it's Jewish political actors.

00:12:59.360 And it was nice to see that we actually did see some of that this coming out of NatCon.

00:13:03.560 We actually did see some of the Israeli attendees saying, hey, Podhoretz, you don't speak for me. Hey, random Jewish guy on the left in America, that's not actually what I'm trying to do in Israel. And you've got to see a lot more of that. I think that's really critical if you want to see any perception of Israel shift inside the United States.

00:13:21.480 You need to hear Jewish voices get very loud about bad behavior when it comes to people on the left or people doing it on behalf of Israel in the United States.

00:13:31.460 Many of Israel's worst, you know, representatives are not Jewish, right?

00:13:35.960 They're often Christian Zionists who think they're doing the right thing.

00:13:39.720 They think they're following some kind of biblical mandate, but they get really aggressive and really unpleasant to the point where people are pushed away from their cause.

00:13:47.160 And so in a lot of cases, it might be better if Israel started, you know, calling some of these, you know, overzealous Christians out rather than, you know, just just staying quiet on those issues.

00:13:57.660 But I think it's also really important, as you talked about, to understand that American patriots should always be America or first just, you know, whatever their background.

00:14:07.560 I don't want to hear about your strong support of Israel just because you're ethnically Jewish or religiously Jewish.

00:14:13.760 You know, ultimately, if you're an American, your first duty is always the United States. And there is no problem with saying that you, like you said, got a pretty hefty attack for ultimately saying, look, at the end of the day, my loyalty is always to America. It's got to be America first. Someone implying, you know, that somehow that means, you know, no Jewish person could be loyal to America. It's like, no, that's absolutely not what he's saying. But you have to have that order to the ordering of loves.

00:14:38.880 And if you can't do that, if you can't, again, think in these categories, if you're always telling me that somehow Israeliness or Jewishness is superseding that, well, you're just feeding into that stereotype, not the other way, right?

00:14:50.320 Yeah, that's right. I want to go back to something that you just mentioned in terms of like perception in America.

00:14:55.280 I mean, one of the I feel like a dominant theme of the conversations that I heard just around the conference.

00:15:01.400 And if you look at some of the clips that got the most engagement coming out of the conference, there was this one one participant there saying that we need to be Jews,

00:15:11.600 conservative Jews, like the people in that room need to be out there in America supporting things

00:15:16.600 like mass deportation, owning the fact that we've seen a lot of left wing Jews supporting open

00:15:22.940 borders and mass migration and countering that. So that's a very, I think that's a positive

00:15:27.480 development. If that's one of the things that comes out of this conference and even coming out

00:15:31.560 of maybe me being there and my remarks as well, that's good. It was interesting though, that when

00:15:36.080 some of us were brainstorming, well, where is the conservative Jewish NGO that's supporting

00:15:43.420 base right-wing stuff in America? There really isn't one. So if these guys, again, these people

00:15:51.640 who are not like the ADL, that are nationalists, nationalists for Israel, hopefully, of course,

00:15:57.480 nationalists for America as well with no asterisks or caveats, I mean, that's really important here,

00:16:02.720 that they're trying to solve this problem and offer alternative voices. Because look, I mean,

00:16:08.640 you and I would both know that if the only Christian voice in America was like radical

00:16:13.480 left-wing woke activists, you and I would be really irritated. We would feel like we're not

00:16:18.260 being representative if somebody said, oh, all Christians support open borders. You and I'd be

00:16:22.860 like, well, no, not all Christians. And that was sort of the reaction that I got. And particularly

00:16:27.000 in the Q&A after the panels, people were trying to tell me, no, not all Jews are leftist Marxists.

00:16:32.180 I was like, okay, but you guys have to show us where the people are who aren't.

00:16:37.620 And if that's sort of something that gets developed and worked on from this, I think

00:16:41.020 that's good.

00:16:41.460 Again, not in any sort of like containment effort, but just because that's a reasonable

00:16:45.720 and honest conversation worth having.

00:16:48.640 Again, it's really putting your money where your mouth is.

00:16:52.200 Again, I think there are people doing good work here, but I have to see the legwork done.

00:16:57.120 As you say, where is my right-wing, super-based Jewish NGO?

00:17:02.180 Right. Like when once I start seeing you handing out sinecures, you know, hiring people, you know, bringing lawsuits, you know, putting pressure on politicians, then I'm going to believe that this is a real effort.

00:17:14.540 Right. But that that's what shows me. Talk is cheap, ultimately. And so I think the rhetorical shift comes before the action shift.

00:17:21.720 And so I think this was a good reset. I think that there was a good frame for people to understand what it would look like to have a positive relationship with Israel from the right in this scenario. But then you have to put the pedal to the floor. Then you have to actually make the thing happen.

00:17:38.000 And so I'm hoping that, you know, this is taken seriously enough to where it's not just a collection of speeches and some guys asking some interesting questions, because, again, I've had this conversation so many times like, well, how do we shift the perceptions like, well, man, put any effort, put put anything on the line.

00:17:53.260 you know people believe in skin in the game show me you're spending money show me that you're

00:17:57.520 sacrificing something show me you're putting an american priority between you know you and

00:18:02.560 promoting someone who happens to share the same ethnic background but is a total radical leftist

00:18:08.140 right like and that's and that's the shift that i think we started to see in that room and i hope

00:18:12.220 that it definitely continues because i i do think that is the key if there's going to be any kind of

00:18:16.780 uh you know repairing of that relationship i think that's got to be a first step forward

00:18:21.260 now can i make one quick comment on that oh yeah by all means and again nobody is asking me to do

00:18:26.360 this but i actually wanted to sort of briefly like commend yoram for trying to do some of those

00:18:31.080 things when we think about nat cons the american nat cons over the last few years and you know

00:18:36.060 it's something that i've watched with great interest some of the most base right-wing

00:18:40.120 speeches from some of our politicians have come out of like the national conservatism talk eric

00:18:45.400 schmidt's speech at the the most recent one incredible jd vance has given great speeches

00:18:51.000 at natcon defending the idea that america is a nation america is a people america is not

00:18:55.500 just an idea and so you know and and you know on the american right the space to do things like that

00:19:01.460 is is few and hard to come by and so for yoram having created conversations and creating ability

00:19:07.300 and look i mean i don't know yoram super well so i don't know all of his motives i can only just

00:19:11.580 look at what's happening, right? And I like it. Again, I like him. I'm not casting aspersions on

00:19:15.740 it, but he's created this space to have a conversation about nationalism, nationalism

00:19:19.920 in America. And it's given us some really good base content here in the US. And then he was

00:19:25.520 willing to do this, invite people like us over, throw a bomb into this conversation. He's taking

00:19:30.940 heat on both sides of this too. So we need to see more of that. But I think these guys are doing

00:19:36.700 some of that so the next uh speech that really uh you know drove people up the wall i think was

00:19:44.760 jonathan keeperman's speech lomez's speech and uh you know there was a lot of interesting stuff

00:19:50.760 in that speech but the things that you know got clipped of course because that was the whole

00:19:55.580 intention was to just to make it as salacious as possible was his discussion on weakness versus

00:20:01.820 strength uh you know and he said look what we've seen in america primarily has been uh you know

00:20:09.280 when it comes to judaism or israel like basically you have to support this because of hitler it's

00:20:16.820 the holocaust and if you you know if you don't do everything that israel says or if you are not

00:20:23.080 you know interested in uh you know meeting every need then it's because you are actually secretly

00:20:28.600 a holocaust denier or somehow you know a fan of it or something like that it's like this is just

00:20:34.100 a story of weakness this is a story of victimhood and ultimately this is not going to do well for

00:20:39.520 you in the future if you continue to communicate with americans as if they have some kind of guilt

00:20:45.220 over an event they helped to stop they're you're going to lose any credibility with the united

00:20:51.400 states and of course the funny thing about that speech is then literally everyone turned around

00:20:56.440 did exactly what he said they were going to do they turn around you know we have ted cruz

00:21:00.440 literally libeling uh you know jonathan on twitter saying oh he's a holocaust denier he believes he's

00:21:06.720 like nick fuentes like it's just insane uh that that was the reaction is nothing that he said

00:21:12.080 but it does show you how true his words are and how you know deeply this is rooted i mean man i

00:21:18.440 remember when i was teaching in florida i was teaching civics there's literally no uh history

00:21:24.960 basically in the civics curriculum it's all about the laws how's the constitution work that kind of

00:21:30.380 thing you're not talking about foreign wars all over the place right we didn't even talk about

00:21:35.180 world war ii but you know what was a mandatory lesson inside that civics lesson the holocaust

00:21:40.680 in an american civics course that had nothing to do we didn't talk about the actual war that

00:21:46.140 occurred that america was involved in just the holocaust during an american civics lesson so

00:21:50.460 this really has become something that i think is impossible for people not to notice and when

00:21:55.920 you're using that narrative as your continued you know justification for saying you must support us

00:22:01.340 in any and all instances as jonathan i think put very clearly he himself ethnically jewish

00:22:06.600 this is going to lose like this is a losing strategy and you have to change with a position

00:22:11.280 of strength you have to stop assuming support you need to bring a real case as to why you are

00:22:16.480 strong ally to the United States, not just will World War II happen and therefore you owe us this

00:22:22.620 for some reason. Yeah. You know, one of the interesting things that I heard over there

00:22:26.980 said again, a couple of times. And so, you know, I don't think I'm divulging anything here was

00:22:31.160 there, there are conservative Israelis who they would say that we have our nation today,

00:22:36.940 not because of the Holocaust, but in spite of it. Right. And I mean, that's something that

00:22:41.620 people could certainly debate, but they, these conservative Israelis who want to operate from

00:22:45.780 a position of strength, I think they resonated with what Jonathan was saying and that they want

00:22:50.340 to present this sort of confident, you know, strong version and vision of themselves and of

00:22:56.280 their nation going forward. You know, so I think Jonathan's remarks were very interesting. They

00:23:01.080 were obviously very, they were very controversial with some people, but I think they were actually

00:23:05.320 pretty well received there by and whole and on the large. One of the things though, Oren, that I was

00:23:10.540 thinking about after it, you know, was just that it is in this conversation of nationalism and the

00:23:16.100 West that, you know, when we look at what's happened post-World War II, and look, I'm not

00:23:20.840 a fan of Hitler. I don't indulge in, you know, any sort of edgy, like, you know, let's rehabilitate

00:23:26.760 Hitler. I think that's, I think that's dumb. I think that's retarded. I think it's unhelpful,

00:23:31.080 right? So like, you know, I don't do any of that. I don't think Hitler was a good guy. I think it

00:23:34.960 was a bad guy. I think Stalin was a bad guy. I have a lot of gripes about how, you know, Nazism is

00:23:40.360 this eternal enemy, but communism is something that we can play footsie with all the time. I

00:23:45.360 mean, in my opinion, you should be just as canceled for like being a card carrying communist

00:23:49.800 as you would be being a card carrying Nazi today. But for some reason, it only goes one way, right?

00:23:55.020 And this is a larger conversation. But I actually think for the West, Jonathan was talking about,

00:23:59.500 you know, Israel and the Jews. I think for the West, one of the really important things we need

00:24:03.840 to do here in the 21st century is to recover our own narrative of strength and confidence in our

00:24:09.600 civilization that was shattered by world war ii you don't have to do any revision or any like

00:24:15.120 footsie with hitler to just look at the scope of history and say world war ii and the the horrific

00:24:21.300 effects of it caused the west to lose their nerve in the goodness of their christian civilization

00:24:27.360 and the downstream effects of that have been disastrous so i think on our end we need to

00:24:31.820 recover a position of strength as well yeah there is obviously a lot of landmines laid

00:24:38.320 in the middle of the world war ii narrative and that's let's be frank because it is basically the

00:24:43.880 religious founding narrative of the current world order and so you have a lot tied into that now i

00:24:49.780 i don't even the term revisionism is a strange one to me when it comes to history i look like

00:24:55.200 either events happened or they didn't and let's just actually you know investigate that no one's

00:25:00.580 sitting around saying oh well you know you're you're some unhinged uh you know amoral guy if

00:25:07.560 you wonder if you know julius caesar wasn't ultimately trying to save the republic or not

00:25:11.220 right like we don't have this attachment genghis khan was a bad guy but nobody feels the need to

00:25:16.440 preface and anything you talk about with genghis khan with 15 condemnations of his behavior hitler

00:25:22.360 was a very bad man he was a very bad man but he's just one of many very bad man hitler is not satan

00:25:28.200 sorry everybody like it's he's not satan he's not the greatest manifestation of evil to ever exist

00:25:33.060 on the planet earth he's just another really bad man who did a lot of really bad things and so it's

00:25:38.500 okay if we just talk about historical events like we're adults instead of having this conniption

00:25:43.560 fit every time someone's addressed them that said you have to you have to ultimately move forward

00:25:49.040 and any any relationship as you say for israel is going to require them to move forward a position

00:25:54.420 of strength but also america like we have to stop apologizing for winning world war ii i guess like

00:26:01.160 ultimately this is you know this is not some great evil that we imposed on the world uh and

00:26:06.660 there's no reason to then shrink away from your duty responsibility or right as you know someone

00:26:12.760 who won such a great war you have a civilization that's worth fighting for you have a civilization

00:26:17.920 that's worth being proud of and one of the many great things it did was win world war ii

00:26:22.380 so just own that there's there's no reason to do anything else about it that doesn't mean that you

00:26:27.200 have to give in to every victimhood narrative that's handed around, you know, the Holocaust

00:26:32.100 or anything else.

00:26:33.040 I don't think that ultimately that's helpful for anyone, including the Israelis, as Jonathan

00:26:37.620 pointed out.

00:26:38.620 But you, you know, you just should understand that, you know, your grandparents, your great

00:26:43.560 grandparents did great things and you should be more than proud of them and be willing

00:26:47.180 to defend those things without blinking.

00:26:49.720 So that said, I guess the last speech there that really ruffled feathers was Matthew

00:26:56.020 Peterson's and his mainly seemed and this was the strangest one to get any pushback was just

00:27:02.340 his point that we needed to start normalizing the relationship between Americans and Israel as we

00:27:08.700 were saying before there has to be something between you know the the the the exact relationships

00:27:14.740 that Washington warned us about which are that we have this bifurcation America where we have

00:27:18.860 violated Washington's uh you know wishes twice somehow we you know we have a bunch of people

00:27:23.840 who really, really love Israel and will do anything for it at the expense of the United

00:27:28.280 States because they think that makes them American somehow. And then we have people who spend

00:27:32.320 literally all their time hating Israel and saying it's the source of all demonic power in the world

00:27:39.160 and it's, you know, all these things. And the answer is, it's just a country. It's just a

00:27:45.060 country. It's okay. And we can treat it like a country. And, you know, honestly, I think that

00:27:50.420 given our current back and forth with Israel, it'd probably be best if we just unwind ourselves as

00:27:55.840 much as possible. But to be fair, there are a lot of difficulties with that. And this is something

00:28:01.160 that I think Peterson touched on a little bit, but it's very clear that it seems very important

00:28:07.020 in a lot of people in the United States to tie support to Israel into the fabric of the United

00:28:13.360 States to the point where we're literally moving pieces of legislation through Congress, which

00:28:17.740 would require the president to share intelligence with Israel, even if he doesn't want to,

00:28:23.120 unless he gets special permission from Congress not to do that.

00:28:28.580 That's a crazy thing that shouldn't be built into any form of legislation.

00:28:32.660 We shouldn't be restricting the executive to do that.

00:28:35.340 But these efforts are ongoing, and it's understandable why people will ultimately say, well, this

00:28:40.420 relationship isn't normal, and it's very hard to normalize when we're literally building

00:28:44.540 into the legal code exceptions for only Israel.

00:28:47.740 You know, I think Matthew's talk, I mean, that's I haven't looked closely at that. So I'm not going to I'm not going to get into that whole conversation. Right. But one of the things I did mention in my talk, and I thought this was maybe going to be it's funny, I thought maybe this was going to be something that got people a little up in arms. And it really wasn't, which is, I just mentioned that for a new generation in America, it's odd when you do things like go to your congressional, your member of Congress's office, and they have Israeli flags flying outside of their office year round.

00:29:17.240 You know, it just some of those things.

00:29:19.440 And that was on my talk about how America first needs to mean America first.

00:29:22.800 We want our sovereignty back.

00:29:24.060 Like some of those things strike people as odd.

00:29:26.300 And I think what I was essentially telling that room is I think that's kind of unhelpful

00:29:29.680 for a normal relationship in many ways.

00:29:33.080 But the thing that Matthew Peterson's talk, I think, really did that upset people was

00:29:37.300 he put the charges of anti-Semitism in the broader context of what's happened in America

00:29:43.180 over the last decade plus here where all of these, and he kept saying ists and isms, are being used

00:29:49.600 to attack right-wingers and they've just lost all their power. Actually, I don't know if they've

00:29:55.360 lost all their power. I think they actually can still damage people, but people are caring less

00:29:59.380 and less about them. Whether you're called a racist or a transphobe or a homophobe or an

00:30:04.360 anti-Semite, it's just all become sort of this same bucket of slurs used to demonize and attack,

00:30:09.840 you know particularly usually white american christian men for doing things as simple as

00:30:15.600 defending the interests of their own country standing up against woke nonsense um and then

00:30:21.020 people again went out went out and proceeded to demonstrate matthew's very own point in fact i

00:30:25.920 wonder if you'll permit me to use this point here to respond to rod dreyer who sort of was coming

00:30:30.220 after me in one of his write-ups you know dreyer was accusing me of uh using trafficking and

00:30:36.320 anti-Semitic tropes because I was being critical of neocons. That's exactly what Matthew was

00:30:41.220 talking about in his speech. And in fact, it's Rod Dreher who's trafficking in anti-Semitic tropes

00:30:46.200 because when I talk about neocons, I don't mean Jews. I mean, actual American neocons who

00:30:51.360 subscribe to the foreign policy vision of George H.W. Bush and Bush. And ironically, even somebody

00:30:57.580 like Obama, who was sort of like a neocon on the foreign side of things as well, the interventionist

00:31:02.680 side of things as well. And so, you know, we got to be able to have reasonable conversations about

00:31:07.460 different things without slapping that label on it. And that was, I think, what caused Matthew's

00:31:13.780 speech to be so controversial in some ways. But honestly, I thought Matthew's speech was

00:31:18.040 incredible. It was very reasonable. It was very studious. It was very academic. I don't know

00:31:23.300 Matthew particularly well, but I was listening to his speech. I was like, wow, this is great.

00:31:27.800 And this is really friendly. I hope people listen to this. And some people are. Some people are.

00:31:32.540 I'll say this. There's obviously a lot of anger and angst, again, on both of the extremes that we're talking about here. But I think in the reasonable middle on both sides in Israel and America, I think a lot of this has been well received.

00:31:44.000 well like you're saying you know peterson really did nail this idea that you're you're going to

00:31:51.040 turn anti-semitism into racism and sexism and homophobia and islamophobia right it just sounds

00:31:58.220 like another one of these slanders that's thrown out during black lives matter or you know the

00:32:03.260 campus sexual assault crisis or whatever woke crusade the left is on this week and so you know

00:32:09.660 people are just turning off their sensitivity to this because look, man, every day, all day,

00:32:16.240 I'm accused of being funded by both Israel and Qatar simultaneously, right? It's just exhausting

00:32:23.820 to have to hear this. And so you just tune it out. And it's like, okay, your charges mean nothing to

00:32:28.400 me. Your words mean nothing to me because they're empty. It's all just a bunch of polemics. You

00:32:32.940 don't have any actual substance behind it. Even when a guy like Peterson, who's out there and

00:32:37.800 obviously cares and wants there to be a good relationship a profitable relationship to be

00:32:42.820 an american israel you have to go right out and call him you know anti-semitic you anti-semitic

00:32:48.300 jonathan keeperman a jewish guy anti-semitic it's just it's comical to the point where everything

00:32:54.460 that they're saying has lost any any meaning and so as you say when people run out and then accuse

00:32:59.440 immediately uh something like you're talking about neoconservatism as anti-semitic well first

00:33:05.340 you know let's let's think about what the implications of that even are when we talk

00:33:10.980 about crime if we say you know crime is bad and someone says well that's an attack on black people

00:33:16.180 it's like uh man i think you're i think you're telling more than than they are right like if

00:33:21.340 if you came out and said something like that you would be implying something that the person who

00:33:25.300 was talking about crime was not like you're you're noticing something that they weren't

00:33:28.960 so if someone comes out and says well neoconservatives are overwhelmingly jewish

00:33:32.780 well yeah they are like so are we going to deal with the facts are we going to deal with the fact

00:33:37.680 that you know black people commit more crimes than you know the rest of the population are we

00:33:41.900 going to deal with the fact that neoconservatives are you know more likely to be jewish than

00:33:46.180 something else because that's reality and i'm here to talk about reality we can't have any solutions

00:33:51.300 that doesn't mean we have to hate people doesn't mean we have to say all people are like this

00:33:54.960 every person is a thief if they have a certain skin color every person wants endless war if they

00:33:59.900 happen to come from you know some particular region of the middle east but ultimately we have

00:34:05.080 to be able to think in groups we have to be able to think in categories we can't have any kind of

00:34:09.380 productive conversation and it feels like that was the purpose at the end of the day right so much

00:34:14.540 of you know the war machine in the united states the endless wars the you know foreign policy

00:34:19.980 that's not focused on america's interests it's all by been driven by this desire to just shut

00:34:25.020 down the conversation you can't talk about these things we can't talk about america first

00:34:29.800 interest because that might endanger you know the the wider foreign policy goals of i don't go into

00:34:35.120 ukraine or something like that like there's this this constant drumbeat of you can't discuss this

00:34:39.780 because you're a hater or you know you're you're somehow deeply anti-semitic and that means that

00:34:44.760 we are no we're not able to talk about what's good for america and that has to stop i'm sorry

00:34:49.400 but yelling magical words at me when i'm trying to discuss what's best for my country what's going

00:34:53.480 to matter for my you know uh my descendants like that's that has to end people are not going to

00:34:58.400 put up with this anymore. The idea that Israel gets a special type of nationalism that only they

00:35:03.740 get to discuss has dissolved away. And to Yoram's credit, I think he's one of the first guys to see

00:35:09.940 this, to recognize that in a world where, you know, that special claim to Israel being the only

00:35:16.100 nation that gets nationalism is gone. Well, then you're going to need a broader coalition of

00:35:21.120 nationalist forces inside the West to ultimately allow the country he cares about, Israel, to

00:35:26.500 survive. And so he's in the scenario where he has to recognize Americans are going to have to get

00:35:31.340 the same deal Israel gets at the end of the day. And I think that's the very controversial point

00:35:37.080 we're at because guys like you and me are like, you know what? It would be great if we just had

00:35:41.960 the level of national identity and the certainty to exert it that Israel did. But I'm being told

00:35:47.540 by all these people who love Israel, we're not allowed to have it. And so in a way you're telling

00:35:52.440 I mean, no, you can't be like Israel.

00:35:54.200 You can't have what Israel gets.

00:35:55.260 And that's just not going to work.

00:35:56.600 And I think Hezoni ultimately sees that.

00:36:00.080 Yeah, no, I think that's a really good point.

00:36:02.140 And there's some sort of fun and somewhat humorous ways to articulate that,

00:36:07.600 where it's like Israel is a predominantly very religious, militaristic ethnostate.

00:36:14.420 Man, that sounds pretty cool to a lot of people on the right.

00:36:18.700 And that's tongue in cheek.

00:36:20.560 But, you know, I think there's some truth to that. And look, you know, again, I don't have any, you know, I have no animosity towards Israel. I am not in the camp of people on the right who spends my days worrying about like world Jewry and how they're controlling the strings behind anything.

00:36:36.460 I genuinely do want what's best for them as a people, as a nation. More importantly, and first and foremost, I want what's best for my people and my nation. And we have to have some of these conversations in order to make sure that both of those things can happen and that we are putting Americans first over here in the United States of America.

00:36:57.180 a radical idea, I know. But these conversations, I think they do have to happen and they have to

00:37:03.120 happen in reasonable ways and with honest, good faith interlocutors, which again, I think Yoram

00:37:08.760 and a lot of the people over there that were a part of this conference are. And so I'm glad I

00:37:13.560 went. I'm not sure what does William Wolfe get out of going other than it may be a bunch of grief.

00:37:19.120 I don't know. Hopefully, I will say this. I got a really encouraging DM from a guy who's not really

00:37:25.780 even in any sort of like close industry to what I work in. I work in sort of Christian and politics

00:37:30.700 and he works in the private sector. And he, he let me know though, that he was going to be in

00:37:35.360 a space delivering a speech to a room full of people who are probably going to disagree with

00:37:39.300 him and that he was so emboldened and encouraged by seeing what Jonathan Kieperman and I did that

00:37:44.100 he like rewrote half of his speech. Right. So it's like, if, if effects like that are happening

00:37:49.020 for showing courage and honesty, then I think then that's, that's a good downstream effect

00:37:53.640 for having gone over there. Is there a lot of awareness of how deleterious the war has been

00:38:01.720 to this relationship? I know you mentioned it, you know, however, again, however you where you

00:38:06.680 think Iran war is justified or not, the weariness of the American people when it comes to war is

00:38:11.620 simply too much. And continuing to expect military intervention on behalf of your country is just

00:38:18.700 not going to ultimately do i know other people are going to frame this i'm not i want to be clear i

00:38:23.980 am now speaking for me not william uh but you know it is very clear to me that israel had an

00:38:30.740 overwhelming if not entirely uh you know complete uh impact when it came to to driving us into this

00:38:37.980 war i think it's very very difficult for people to look at this war from an american perspective

00:38:42.960 and say anything else, especially when so much of the Trump domestic agenda remained

00:38:48.020 needed to be done and we need to spend political capital domestically to make that happen.

00:38:53.500 And so I understand that ultimately this is probably a war that is supported by the Israeli

00:38:59.140 right. But do they understand the level of kind of political currency it is costing them

00:39:04.940 in this moment? You know, that's a good question. I didn't have a lot of in-depth conversations

00:39:10.440 about that over there. I mean, I think that was certainly a theme of some of the conversations,

00:39:15.560 particularly Keeperman and Peterson. I mentioned it briefly. I mean, I think so. I mean, I did hear

00:39:22.300 sort of this repeated refrain, and this is something that you can catch over here as well,

00:39:27.040 in terms of like, Israel wants to be let off the leash, whatever exactly that means, sort of if

00:39:32.380 there's this decoupling or normalization of the relationship, then they can do what's in their

00:39:37.540 best interests in the region without having to worry about the backlash on the United States.

00:39:42.520 You know, it's interesting. I did mention, I was like, well, you know, sometimes when you guys go

00:39:46.140 and do things, we have a lot of assets in the regions. We have bases in the regions and we're

00:39:49.960 going to catch blowback. And the response to me was like, well, what are you doing here? You know?

00:39:54.980 And so I thought that was kind of like a good, that's like a good point. So I think, I think

00:39:58.760 there's some, some understanding of that. I mean, I think the, the war is going to be one of those

00:40:04.460 things where it's just kind of a pretty hard divide between, you know, people on the right

00:40:08.920 in America and maybe not so much on the Israeli side. You know, one of my best, you know, I'm not

00:40:15.740 as, you know, as opposed to it as you are, right? I don't, as I said, I would have counseled that

00:40:22.460 we don't do it if I was in a position to give that counsel. You know, one of the things that

00:40:27.300 I often remark upon though, is like, if I was in Donald Trump's shoes and these people have tried

00:40:31.960 to kill me and my family like multiple times, you know, and I have a chance to take them out.

00:40:37.240 You know, I can understand that. But then, of course, there's a whole there's more than Trump.

00:40:42.040 There's more than his family. There's this whole country that that goes into it here. So I'm not

00:40:47.260 sure, honestly, to your question. I think there's some of that. And I think I think let's wait and

00:40:51.540 see what happens with the midterms. And maybe there will be more of that. Yeah, that is a big

00:40:57.080 question i mean a lot of people are hoping that the polls are wrong uh that the the craziness of

00:41:02.700 the democrats is enough and look i'm certainly hoping those things are true i have been very

00:41:07.620 clear no matter how i feel about the iran war the idea that you're going to go out and vote for a

00:41:13.080 bunch of muslim socialists who are openly talking about throwing our borders open and immediately

00:41:18.180 uh you know giving out amnesty sorry like there's no choice here i i can be i i am legitimately

00:41:24.720 furious over the war in iran but i'm not burning my country down to like show donald trump how

00:41:30.620 angry i am like i'm not a five right right like so so that mentality is just kind of ridiculous

00:41:36.500 to me but i do think there is i think that this the war has permanently injured the the relationship

00:41:43.840 with israel at this point for most of americans even even many on the right not just the left

00:41:50.540 And I think they, they need to understand this. This needs to, to, to settle deeply into their psyche. When you push for things like this, when you, you are not, you are, you are eating, you are eating out the core of any healthy relationship in the long term. And, and even if, even if maybe I'm entirely wrong, right? Like maybe my perception and the perception of many people is entirely wrong.

00:42:14.460 And ultimately, this was all Trump and he all had the best idea and this just had to happen. But ultimately, even the perception itself is incredibly damaging to Israel, even if we're all incorrect about the motivations behind all of this. And so I just think that that has to settle in. Obviously, that's neither here nor there with your remarks.

00:42:32.160 But I just think that when we're talking about the general scope of Israeli-American relationships, one of the things you have to bring to the table is we're not only asking you to go to war all the time, right?

00:42:43.240 Like that Israel is offering something and the thing that they're offering is not just like intelligence against their enemies, you know, that they have something that is a positive net benefit outside of the conflicts they're already engaging in or want to engage in that benefits the United States.

00:42:59.780 And so I think that is the message that really needs to come forward. And, you know, understanding that running around and thinking that encouraging additional conflicts will have no consequence is going to be foolish in the future.

00:43:13.760 uh but that said uh obviously uh we know that a lot of people ultimately wanted to gin up

00:43:22.340 controversy i think a lot of people who are trying to take you or jonathan or matthew out

00:43:27.040 of context obviously were acting in very bad faith but was there any reaction that you were

00:43:31.960 surprised about is there any actor that you you didn't expect uh to come in and comment the way

00:43:37.100 that they did man that's a good question i mean i think i was a particularly um dismayed by again

00:43:45.160 rod dreyer's write-up right so like i don't expect goodwill or good faith engagement from

00:43:50.080 mark theseon who has at previous points in his twitter history has three foreign bios and three

00:43:56.480 foreign flags in his twitter bio right so people like mark theseon or eric erickson although i

00:44:01.580 will say eric erickson reached some crazy new low you know tweeting out in arabic you know that you

00:44:07.680 know there is no god but you know allah and muhammad and his prophet in response to me as if

00:44:12.360 i'm some sort of like islamic sympathizer when like nothing could be further from the truth you

00:44:16.480 know i actually said in the q a after our panel it's like you know let like let's be really clear

00:44:20.600 i'm not a pacifist right like i have no problem with killing terrorists i have no sympathy for

00:44:25.680 the Palestinians. I have no sympathy for Hamas. You can find me writing against that. So Eric

00:44:32.740 trying to paint me with somehow like a jihadist supporter was ridiculous. But Rod Dreher in his

00:44:40.000 write-up at the Free Press and on his sub stack, he accused me of ignorantly trafficking in

00:44:47.720 anti-Semitic tropes, which I think is ridiculous. He accused me of trying to essentially talk down

00:44:54.540 to the Jews when I was just trying to set the table on sort of like who are Jews in American

00:44:59.400 life. And I had seen Rod there briefly and got a chat with him one night and pushed back in person

00:45:06.280 as one should do on something he said. He made a remark about how we have no shared religious

00:45:11.380 identity in America. And I was like, yeah, Rod, we do. It's called Christianity and has been our

00:45:16.700 shared religious identity since our founding. So I'm disappointed in Rod's remarks in particular,

00:45:23.380 Although I will say this, Rod does seem to be treating me, Keeperman, Peterson, and Amanda as people who need to be reckoned with.

00:45:32.340 But, you know, really at the end of the day, I think behind somebody like Rod's like framework is they just they demand denunciations of denunciations of certain people.

00:45:42.640 And if you can't give that to them, no matter what you say, no matter what you do, even if you get on a plane and fly halfway around the world in a good faith effort to build and strengthen diplomatic relationships with conservative Israelis, then you are somehow a secret anti-Semite.

00:45:59.120 And if that is the response we're going to get from people like Rod Dreher, then this conversation is just going to go nowhere with people like that.

00:46:07.620 Yeah, that's an excellent point. So two things there. One, I can I can unlock I can give people the skeleton key to Rod Dreher's agenda right now if they need to.

00:46:16.500 When Rod Dreher was living in Hungary and making a bunch of money working for the Orban government, he was a post liberal who believed who was against liberalism and believed all the things that he's now denouncing.

00:46:30.420 And now that he's working for Barry Weiss and the free press, suddenly Rod Dreher is

00:46:35.760 a liberal again.

00:46:36.760 And man, Israel is like, you know, everyone needs to have total loyalty.

00:46:40.700 And ultimately, any even just mild correction turns you into an anti-Semite and a hated

00:46:47.300 post-liberal, which he was 10 minutes ago, but now isn't because, well, he's got a new

00:46:51.140 paycheck and that's really convenient.

00:46:52.960 But second, sorry, again, all my comments, not William Wolf.

00:46:56.560 uh second uh i think it's really critical uh as you're pointing out when it comes to

00:47:03.300 the denunciation aspect because this has been the most sinister thing i have seen look i have

00:47:08.780 friends with a lot of people who have opinions that i don't wholly agree with you know like i

00:47:14.280 and and some pretty controversial people and you're just not going to catch me denouncing any

00:47:19.840 of them you're not going to catch me denouncing daryl cooper you're not going to catch me

00:47:24.160 denouncing jonathan keeperman i'm not going to do either i've had people demand that i do both

00:47:28.960 on my show and those two guys don't agree about a lot of stuff with each other but i'm not going

00:47:33.700 to denounce any of these guys because that's not what you do with people you know in person if you

00:47:38.700 have a problem with someone you're friends with you go to them and you talk to them you do not

00:47:43.840 publicly denounce people for the mob yeah and this is what we've seen a lot with jd vance well why

00:47:48.340 won't he denounce tucker carlson why won't he denounce tucker carlson because they're friends

00:47:52.060 because jd vance is a man of honor because he's not going to run around and feed his friend to

00:47:57.320 the mob for you even if he probably disagrees with a number of things that he said like that's not how

00:48:02.800 friendship works that's not how loyalty works and loyalty is the ultimate political virtue

00:48:08.780 like that's what matters at the end of the day if you're willing to run around and denounce people

00:48:14.580 who you actually value who you've worked with who you've built things with who you've trusted over

00:48:19.300 the years if you're willing to burn them down because they disagreed with you on one topic

00:48:23.820 publicly then you're not a friend you're not an ally you have no loyalty you have you again that

00:48:30.240 doesn't mean you need to agree with these people but the idea that we are in this now political

00:48:34.860 environment where you have to run around and denounce every single person for every single

00:48:38.960 opinion they have that the mob doesn't like that is the most woke thing you can imagine that is the

00:48:43.960 most woke struggle session you know cancel culture thing you can do and now we're seeing it run

00:48:48.120 roughshod through the right ironically by people who love to call people woke right and so i i'm

00:48:53.240 just done with it you know i saw jesse kelly flip out at you know one of these chuckleheads recently

00:48:57.500 just saying i'm i'm done with the nag squad you know great phrase the nag squad that's just what

00:49:03.300 we're using from now on right like i was going with the containment right i thought that was

00:49:07.200 good verbiage but the the nag squad just really that one threads the needle perfectly i'm i'm i'm

00:49:12.620 just done with these people you know i'm praying for them and i'm moving on because they have

00:49:16.420 nothing to say all they want to do is yell and cry for denouncements they're just woke leftists

00:49:21.580 they're they're just caught in this fever dream of denouncement and i just think that's beneath

00:49:26.220 men of any stature yeah well i'm really glad we get to talk about this in particular because i

00:49:31.480 have a lot of thoughts on this and this was my my kind of closing points which which definitely

00:49:36.360 sparked some controversy where i said you know like jd vance is our guy stop trying to put him

00:49:41.960 through a struggle session you know and again because the broader point here and some people

00:49:45.800 I think really don't believe this, but look, everybody has to read the tea leaves different

00:49:49.940 ways, right? And I've been watching over the last year in particular, the way that accusations of

00:49:56.420 antisemitism and demands for denouncements have been all geared at J.D. Vance and sort of the

00:50:04.060 ascendancy of the new America first right in a post Donald Trump world. And there are a host of

00:50:10.880 people, the establishment GOP actors, many of them neocons, many of them not Jewish. There are

00:50:16.200 plenty of non-Jewish neocons, right? Who, what they want so desperately is a return to pre-Trump

00:50:23.100 GOP politics. And they see 2028 as their chance to do it. And they, I think because of a variety

00:50:29.580 of different things, right? Because of the war and the way that that's kind of changed the

00:50:33.860 conversation because of the way that sort of, the way Tucker has gone down certain paths,

00:50:39.760 giving people a chance to engage on these things. They're like, okay, we can take this. This is our

00:50:44.680 skeleton key for defeating Vance before he even gets to the starting line and getting somebody

00:50:51.220 who's going to repudiate the Trump era, particularly on foreign policy, on nationalism, on trade,

00:50:57.200 on immigration, in back and control of the Republican party. And so I felt really strongly

00:51:02.340 that I wanted to make that point. And you're right, Oren, demanding denunciations and putting

00:51:08.220 people through a struggle session. It is fundamentally malice. It is a leftist thing

00:51:11.920 to do, right? And we should not be trafficking in that on the right. Now, this is what people

00:51:16.480 will say back to you and me. I've seen quite a bit of this. They're like, okay, well, maybe

00:51:19.820 we've been the boy crying wolf, but sometimes the wolf actually does show up. Okay. Well,

00:51:25.600 let me know when that wolf shows up at any institutional level in America. I had a long

00:51:30.240 post on this on X a couple of weeks back that actually got picked up by Real Clear Politics

00:51:34.880 where I was like, any real threat, any institutional threat of anti-Semitism in America does not come

00:51:41.380 from the podcaster you don't like. It comes from the left. It's in our college campuses. It's in

00:51:46.240 our universities. It's in organizations out there like the SPLC and other things like that, even

00:51:52.800 though they claim to be against it. It's in corporate boards. We saw this. I want to beat

00:51:58.280 the left. So stop trying to put us through the struggle session because if you actually really

00:52:02.600 care about beating institutional anti-Semitism in America, whatever that means, it can certainly

00:52:07.500 mean true things, then let's beat the left and stop trying to weaken the right.

00:52:12.880 Well, and very importantly, to be frank, I'm more worried about the institutional anti-white

00:52:18.460 policies that have been far more prevalent on our universities and in our corporations and

00:52:23.060 our government and everything else. I don't think you should hate anyone based on their skin color.

00:52:27.060 I don't think you should hate anyone based on their ethnicity. I don't think you should ultimately

00:52:31.060 be you know excluding anyone or teaching hate of anyone in these organizations but honestly this

00:52:36.340 is just the lowest of priorities for me after watching decades and decades of virulent anti-white

00:52:42.080 hatred uh but yeah like i don't and and the great thing is you say both of these are primarily

00:52:46.760 coming from the left so just defeat the left just just defeat the left and and and 75 percent of

00:52:52.180 what you're going to want to get rid of gets you know is gone anyway and then you figure it out but

00:52:56.240 like that's obviously where our guns should be trained so the idea that we're we're we're in the

00:53:01.400 circular firing squad because ted cruz wants to be president uh is just insane and it's clear there's

00:53:07.220 a lot of lobby money and other things spreading around trying to get the neocons back in and

00:53:12.140 that's what people have to as you say that's what they have to focus on all of this you know

00:53:16.000 republican right-wing civil war stuff nonsense it's almost all funded and and and you know

00:53:22.740 created and pressured because there's these factions that want to return to power in the

00:53:27.520 right that want to return to power in the Republican party. That's the real battle.

00:53:31.700 And all the little issues that you're getting sidetracked with all the little, you know,

00:53:35.080 the little, uh, you know, podcaster tit for tats you're trying, you're digging in on that's all

00:53:40.200 downstream of the agenda at the, at the head of the river. So actually strike at that realize

00:53:44.340 that's what, what's really driving this and don't get caught in the minutiae. It's you're losing

00:53:49.640 the forest for the trees here yeah i'm glad you brought up the the it's like well what about the

00:53:54.280 anti-white hatred and look i do think donald trump's second term has has been really good

00:53:58.860 on this right like i think they and that's another thing that's it's being sort of overlooked and

00:54:03.820 you know it's like yeah i mean i think harmeet dylan has done a great job going after anti-white

00:54:08.500 racism anti-white sentiment across the united states of america and donald trump's done a great

00:54:13.240 job protecting the interests of christians in america too but i can't to keep coming back to

00:54:18.240 rod it's like you know there's this phrase like what you aim at is what you see like if like if

00:54:23.880 the only thing you're aiming at is sort of anti-semitism that's the only thing you're going

00:54:27.800 to see and then you're not going to see or care about things like anti-white hatred in America

00:54:32.060 anti-christian hatred the way that there are other people being you know legitimately discriminated

00:54:36.940 against and then this is the thing with anti-white hatred in America anti-christian hatred in

00:54:40.980 America you can discriminate against these people and then do it publicly and a lot of people cheer

00:54:46.120 for you. That's right. You can post about it. You can post about it. Yeah. Right. And so again,

00:54:51.460 it's like, I think people like Rod and these other people sort of in his circles, they're so

00:54:56.500 myopically focused on this very small issue that is far away from power. And that's not to say that

00:55:02.800 it doesn't exist to a certain degree in certain podcasts or whatever, but then they're completely

00:55:07.900 ignoring a much more prevalent and real issue that actually, if it won't go addressed, may feed

00:55:14.880 a little bit of the issue that they're concerned about, right? And there's a proverb where it says,

00:55:22.500 unequal weights and measures, the Lord detests them both. One of the things I try to do in

00:55:27.620 these conversations is actually bring balanced moral weights and measures, particularly in line

00:55:33.400 of what my main interests are to these conversations. And look, man, those weights

00:55:37.900 and measures come out saying, I'm way more concerned about anti-Christian and anti-white

00:55:42.540 hatred in the United States of America than anything else. Yeah, I'm very glad you said

00:55:48.280 that because again, I've echoed exactly these sentiments. I've told people, look, if you want

00:55:52.820 to increase anti-Semitism by a thousand percent, turn to white guys who cannot get into college,

00:55:58.880 who cannot get a home, who are constantly denounced in every corner as the evil and like the cause of

00:56:06.540 everything wrong in the United States. Turn around and tell them that they're not allowed to notice

00:56:11.440 the anti-white hatred because of anti-Semitism like that's you know that that will absolutely

00:56:17.680 ratchet up anti-Semitism more than anything you can possibly imagine it's the same thing again

00:56:22.420 I've communicated this with with guys at the National Conservatism Convention all of my

00:56:26.780 concerns about a relationship with Israel basically stem from the fact that I hear constantly from

00:56:31.880 proponents of Israel I'm not allowed to have a real country only Israel is and the same thing

00:56:36.360 with the anti-white stuff I'm not allowed to care about anti-white hatred because somewhere there's

00:56:40.900 anti-semitism it's like look i think israel should be a country it has the right to exist for the

00:56:46.040 same reason all countries have a right to exist they can defend themselves and i think that you

00:56:50.680 shouldn't hate anyone including jewish people because of their ethnicity but these are like

00:56:55.040 super low on my totem pole of problems right now because my country is being invaded because

00:57:00.840 people in the united states who are my family my friends are being discriminated against openly

00:57:06.220 without any repercussion so i'm sorry if bad things are happening somewhere in the middle east

00:57:11.080 or if currently there's some problems in ivy league schools with the way they're treating

00:57:15.940 jewish students we should fix those but can we get to all the stuff that's been happening for

00:57:20.760 30 years before we make that the immediate priority because when that happens when i see

00:57:25.680 someone deploy the anti-jewish task force before i get an anti-white task force when i see us going

00:57:31.440 to war in the Middle East instead of dealing with domestic issues that Trump ran on, then I get

00:57:36.500 concerned. Then I have questions about what's going on with Israel, what's going on with the

00:57:40.260 lobbies, what's happening here. I don't want to have those concerns. I want to turn around and say

00:57:43.800 all we're doing is addressing the major problems in the United States. And of those problems,

00:57:48.920 if people are discriminating against Jewish people, then that's on the list and we address

00:57:52.560 them like we do everybody else. We don't give any, we don't put anything to the front of the line

00:57:56.340 because they happen to have special victim points. They are part of the coalition and will be

00:58:01.280 you know uh they will be given priority along with everyone else in the coalition there will

00:58:06.940 be no additional special thing that they get just because we're playing identity politics

00:58:11.800 i think that's all anyone is ultimately asking for and the fact that that is so often decried

00:58:16.900 as somehow white nationalists or anti-semitic that is the worst thing you could do for israel

00:58:21.600 or any relationship with jewish people in the united states yeah i mean i agree with everything

00:58:26.620 you just said. And I actually, I think that, I think someone like Yoram Hazoni and the people

00:58:30.960 involved with national conservatism, you know, even somebody like Will Chamberlain, who I like,

00:58:35.020 I think Will Chamberlain's a hoot. He's, you know, he's very pro the war in Iran. And that would be

00:58:40.900 a place where we disagree, but Will's been, you know, really great denouncing things like anti-white

00:58:45.740 hatred, anti-Christian hatred in America. And so I'm not trying to speak for him, but I'm just

00:58:49.480 mentioning other actors sort of in the space there. I think they recognize that. And this

00:58:53.620 kind of gets back to it's like, well, again, why would you take the time to go over there and do

00:58:58.400 this? It's like, well, look, if there's any contingent over there, conservative Israelis

00:59:04.440 who want to help us have our own country better because they see, and look, that's in their

00:59:11.500 self-interest, right? So I think what I'm trying to say here is I think that someone like Yoram

00:59:14.700 would say that it's actually ultimately in their self-interest if we have our country back and we

00:59:21.300 stop losing to the left and we stop denigrating, you know, Anglo-Saxon Christian heritage in

00:59:28.040 America. I think he sort of recognizes some of what you're saying. Um, and so, yeah, I mean,

00:59:32.620 I think that's, that's why we need to have these conversations and you know, so then what will

00:59:37.160 people say back to us here or, and about this? Okay. They'll say things like, well, we're not

00:59:41.120 here to just do what the incel youth in their basements are, are mad about. We need to, we

00:59:46.400 need to correct those guys and lead them. It's like, okay, well, you know, that's not what I'm

00:59:50.780 trying to do, right? I'm not trying to let my moral compass or what I'm concerned about

00:59:54.500 be set by, you know, a non accounts online, but the facts are the facts, right? Like I can't

01:00:00.720 ignore a headline that says corporate America promised to hire less white people. And then

01:00:05.860 they did it. That's not someone a non in his basement, ginning up some controversy than

01:00:11.060 controlling my moral compass. That's just a reality in America. I'm sorry if you don't care

01:00:15.160 about that. Uh, but I do. So I'm going to talk about it. Yeah. It's like telling me, uh, well,

01:00:20.320 you shouldn't care if trump had the election stolen even if they literally run an article

01:00:24.820 bragging about how they stole the election like sorry man like i actually i do have to care about

01:00:30.020 this i am going to put this first i am going to notice this and i i like what you said there

01:00:34.100 about leadership oh well you know a lot of these guys will say well we shouldn't be listening to

01:00:37.740 these people we should be leading them um guys leadership requires listening it requires knowing

01:00:43.800 i think this is something that a lot on the right don't get even if you don't agree with all of

01:00:50.260 the complaints that people have, real leadership is knowing your people and knowing what their

01:00:56.020 lives are like, knowing the conditions they live in, knowing what their futures look like.

01:01:00.640 And a lot of these people have really insulated themselves from the consequences of liberalism

01:01:07.100 in the last 20 to 30 years. They don't look at what life actually looks like for young men,

01:01:13.220 especially white young Christian men in the United States. They couldn't care less because

01:01:17.500 at some point you know when they were a kid someone handed them a job and you know someone

01:01:22.180 patted them on the back and introduced them to the pretty young girl down the street and they

01:01:25.860 think that's just how it works anymore they don't understand anything about the world around them

01:01:30.000 and then they get angry when people say hey you're not addressing our issues real leadership is

01:01:34.700 talking to an understanding people you can't lead people you hate and i think that's the real you

01:01:40.800 know thing i see far too often the conservative movement in america is real disgust for the people

01:01:46.600 that they represent like they genuinely seem to find people from the south or you know white men

01:01:51.660 or christians or you know something icky like oh well you know i guess we because all the cool

01:01:57.280 groups are taken i guess we have to run these guys but you know they're really embarrassing

01:02:01.420 and we kind of just you know say what we have to do to get the rubes to vote for us and then we go

01:02:05.140 to washington and we actually serve our own interests and we have cocktail parties with

01:02:08.500 all the people who hate the same people we're you know supposed to be representing and we

01:02:12.800 share all their opinions. I think people are tired of that. I think that's what Trump initially

01:02:17.520 embodied was somebody who was willing to speak for these groups that everyone else had abandoned

01:02:22.560 because they didn't have the social cachet. You know, Trump spoke to the Rust Belt. He spoke to

01:02:28.260 the hollowed out white community in the middle of the country that was hooked on drugs and had no

01:02:33.520 future. And I think that's why he mattered that people can have, you know, varying opinions on

01:02:39.080 how that worked out but ultimately this is what MAGA was from the beginning and so saying that

01:02:43.560 this is somehow a betrayal of MAGA or a betrayal uh or you know some kind of failing by you know

01:02:49.400 having to listen to these people no that's what got you here in the first place so I just don't

01:02:53.300 understand the mentality unless of course your job is to hijack the party back away from MAGA

01:02:57.860 and return it to the neocons in which case it makes perfect sense I guess yeah right you know

01:03:01.940 it's the classic Kevin Williamson essay and I can't remember if it was that national review

01:03:05.640 before he had moved on at the time where he's like, he's like, I want, you know, like rural

01:03:10.100 white America to die. They deserve everything they get bad, good and hard. And I want them to

01:03:15.900 be gone from our, our American life. Right. This is a guy who was sort of like a top tier

01:03:20.840 conservative columnist for many years and just hating on rural white Americans. I'm just, it's

01:03:27.340 a, it's a regular theme that we see. And you're right. You're right. Listening does not mean

01:03:32.760 agreeing with everything. I mean, I see a ton of stuff, you know, from, you know, the, the,

01:03:38.020 the frog world or the non right that I think is like real one, just really cringe and two is wrong

01:03:45.040 and isn't going to help them. Um, but I also, I also share a lot of their concerns. And so,

01:03:51.440 yeah, we're not being led around by the nose, by some sort of like this anonymous group of

01:03:56.060 anti-Semitism, anti-Semitic crap posters online. But we're also not going to join in with bashing

01:04:04.700 conservative white, maybe pro-restraint Christian Americans because they want to have a conversation

01:04:13.120 about their country first and foremost, and not another country all the time. And again,

01:04:17.120 this is kind of what I was trying to explain to some of the audience over there. And so

01:04:20.880 the man who can occupy this lane for leadership in the United States of America is going to

01:04:25.960 have to be a statesman um i hope it's somebody like jd vance you know i saw i saw um patrick

01:04:31.180 casey had a great he was like retweeting like eric erickson and james lindsey and joel berry

01:04:36.080 and saying like whoever told these guys that their approach is going to help change the opinions

01:04:40.860 of the next young generation is like they are out to lunch right like those guys are just

01:04:46.020 increasingly isolating themselves they're aggressively changing the opinions of the

01:04:50.700 young people the united states joel berry and james lindsey are currently the dissident

01:04:54.940 rights strongest soldiers no one no one could drive people towards the opinions of the online

01:05:01.080 right faster than eric erickson and joel barry like they like at this point they're just net

01:05:06.440 assets for that faction so but yeah i know what you're i know what you're saying well i mean so

01:05:11.320 on that point too like i would actually have i would have a little bit of concerns like what i

01:05:15.560 really do want like honest statesmanship like that's what and i think you want that too i know

01:05:20.400 you want that too. That's what we want from our leaders. Rod Dre again accused me of letting my

01:05:26.920 online personality come out when I made this little joke about Kamala Ding Dong Harris,

01:05:31.620 to which I just want to tell Rod that I'm sorry, I've had goofy and off-color humor since the day

01:05:36.560 I was born. That's how God made me, whether I had a Twitter account or not. But no, we don't want

01:05:42.020 to be led around by the online right. We want to lead young men and show them a better path forward.

01:05:47.140 And that begins by doing things like stabilizing our relationship, normalizing our relationship with Israel with no animosity towards Jews or the American Jews or the Israeli people, but putting American interests first, unapologetically so, and doing what's best for our country.

01:06:04.380 And the next generation of leadership on the right, whether that's in the Republican Party or in sort of the cultural think tank space, has to do that.

01:06:14.800 And I'm not seeing anybody in the neocon sphere offer anything even close to that path forward here.

01:06:20.340 I think Vance is doing it pretty well.

01:06:22.340 Every time Vance gets to talk to these issues, whether it's H-1B visas or other things like that, I think he does a good job communicating our concerns, which is why they're calling him an anti-Semite.

01:06:33.780 right and that just has to stop yeah no 100 it's very obvious what the motivations are here and if

01:06:40.440 if you're someone who actually cares about israel even a little bit you need to curb this behavior

01:06:44.920 you need to be calling out as much as possible because it is poisoning the well everybody can

01:06:49.160 see how this is being used and uh you know it really just does as you say steal any and all

01:06:54.740 actual uh meaning from these phrases when they're thrown around at a guy like jd vance in addition

01:06:59.860 to tearing apart the Republican Party,

01:07:02.160 which seems to be the goal in many situations.

01:07:04.580 All right, guys, we're going to go ahead

01:07:05.860 and answer the questions of the people real quick.

01:07:08.660 But before we do, William,

01:07:10.160 where can people look for your work?

01:07:12.840 Yeah, sure.

01:07:13.240 So you can follow me on X at William Wolfe,

01:07:15.400 the organization I run, Center for Baptist Leadership.

01:07:18.220 On X at Baptist Leaders,

01:07:19.560 subscribe to our YouTube Center for Baptist Leaders.

01:07:22.140 Find us on Facebook, Center for Baptist Leadership.

01:07:24.840 Just use that.

01:07:26.660 And I do have a sub stack,

01:07:28.060 but I haven't been writing there,

01:07:29.320 but i think i'm gonna have to because i'm or and i'm sick of letting these guys just sort of like

01:07:33.460 drag my name through the mud and i think i'm gonna start writing on sub stack and going after some

01:07:37.780 of them so you can find me on sub stack too excellent guys make sure you're checking out

01:07:41.680 williams work it is always excellent all right nixon's revenge says yes or and you should

01:07:47.600 denounce your enemies you can scream about anti-white hatred all you want but until you

01:07:51.780 cut who is doing this the jq is all hot air and or with this the jq it's all hot air and irrelevant

01:07:59.120 so a couple things here uh do you think that no one is criticizing jewish people you think no one

01:08:05.040 no one's heard about this like this this this is some some super secret thing that no one has put

01:08:10.000 out there also uh i hate to break this to you but anti-white ideology is widespread across many many

01:08:16.440 different sectors it certainly pops up in different jewish circles but it is not something that is in

01:08:22.040 any way shape or form unique to uh jewish people so i think i'll just continue to call it anti-white

01:08:27.680 hatred in all of its forms when it's done by jewish people i'll call it out and when it's done

01:08:31.980 by you know people from all over the third world or even white people in europe i'm going to call

01:08:37.820 it out too i'm just going to call it out all over the place and i'm not going to be afraid to call

01:08:42.020 it out i've certainly been called an anti-semite for calling out anti-white hatred but i don't

01:08:46.480 care i'm going to call it out anyway and i'm not going to pretend that it's only confined to one

01:08:51.000 set of people so that it gets me super special you know spicy online points see here uh thuggo

01:08:58.380 says can you admit the iran war is not about wmd yeah of course it's not like the iran war is very

01:09:04.400 obviously sorry again my answer not williams the iran war is very obviously motivated by the fact

01:09:10.340 that israel sees iran as an existential threat uh wanted to control more of lebanon and ultimately

01:09:16.480 saw themselves as needing a stronger footprint in the middle east to secure its own national

01:09:21.580 security now maybe you could say that's just part of their sovereignty right like they ultimately

01:09:25.040 need that kind of leverage that geopolitical position uh in in the area um maybe not it i'll

01:09:32.120 let people make their own decisions on the validity of that geopolitical strategy but the point is

01:09:37.200 like that's obviously the motivation here there's no way we wiped out iran's you know uh nuclear

01:09:42.620 weapons program six months ago and they have it up and running and we're ready to fire a nuke

01:09:47.520 into new york city like that's it's absurd the idea is absolutely ridiculous the only people that

01:09:52.380 i ran was an imminent threat to were israel and that's why they wanted the war and i think that's

01:09:57.140 why we got involved but again my answer not not williams um william did you want to take a swing

01:10:02.060 at any of that before we move on you don't need to i mean the only thing i would say is that like

01:10:05.900 you know it's just they've been two weeks away from a nuclear weapon like my the entire time

01:10:11.620 that I've been working in, in politics, right. This, when I was working on Capitol Hill as a

01:10:15.900 staffer for congressional Republicans, when, you know, and, you know, it was interesting to me as

01:10:20.540 I reflect upon my time in the first Trump administration. I mean, we, we had an incredible,

01:10:25.860 you know, counter Iran program and I was at state and I was at the department of war,

01:10:31.360 um, that crippled them and really took them out of the economy and, and, and put them back. And

01:10:36.040 we did all that without ever, you know, taking the kinetic actions that we've taken this time

01:10:41.500 around. So I just, those are some interesting things that I, I happen to notice in this

01:10:45.560 conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Having the direct experience of how containment might occur

01:10:50.040 without that kind of kinetic action. That's definitely a good thing to, that's a very

01:10:53.820 relevant piece of information when we're thinking about these issues. All right, guys, we're going

01:10:58.200 to go ahead and wrap it up. Once again, make sure that you're following William. If you haven't seen

01:11:01.360 his speech, you definitely should. It's well worth your time. If it's your first time on this channel,

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01:11:17.340 show on your favorite podcast platform.

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01:11:24.520 It's out in audio book, ebook.

01:11:26.180 You can pick that up over at Amazon.

01:11:27.880 Thank you for watching.

01:11:28.540 And as always, I will talk to you next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - October 12, 2026

Speaking Hard Truths to Israel ｜ Guest： William Wolfe ｜ 10⧸12⧸26

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