The Ben Shapiro Show - The Madness of Ye | Ep. 1622

00:00:00.000 Yay West displays seriously disturbed antisemitic behavior on Alex Jones' show and gets banned on Twitter.

00:00:05.000 We discuss the mainstreaming of madness in American society.

00:00:08.000 And LeBron James has some thoughts on the media's coverage of racism.

00:00:10.000 I'm Ben Shapiro.

00:00:11.000 This is the Ben Shapiro Show.

00:00:12.000 Today's show is sponsored by ExpressVPN.

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00:00:25.000 We'll get to all the news in just one moment.

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00:02:33.000 What we've been watching for the past few weeks is the obvious mental breakdown of one of the most famous people on earth, Kanye West, who now wishes to be known as Ye.

00:02:42.000 What we've been watching here is obviously a manic episode from a person who has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder.

00:02:50.000 I've been saying this since the very beginning.

00:02:52.000 Several things can be true at once. 0.97

00:02:53.000 One, Kanye West is a Jew-hater.

00:02:57.000 Pretty obviously, there's no way to avoid that conclusion. 0.99

00:03:00.000 The stuff that he's been ranting and raving over the past several weeks demonstrates that he doesn't just hate specific Jews, he hates the Jews. 0.99

00:03:06.000 The Jews are the problem, according to Kanye West. 0.98

00:03:09.000 He's been spewing der Sturmer Nazi-esque anti-Semitism for weeks, and last night on Alex Jones' show, he made that perfectly clear. 0.98

00:03:16.000 So, that is true.

00:03:18.000 It is also true that Kanye West is a person with bipolar disorder and this is a person in the middle of a manic episode because there is no other way to explain his behavior.

00:03:24.000 It's not performance art.

00:03:26.000 It's not some sort of rational argument on behalf of hatred of Jews.

00:03:29.000 He leaves that to Nick Fuentes.

00:03:31.000 The fact is that that Ye West is in the middle of a mental breakdown and we are watching it on the world's most public stage.

00:03:36.000 It is the most famous person to have a mental breakdown probably since Howard Hughes publicly.

00:03:40.000 And that says something about how our media cover mental breakdowns.

00:03:44.000 It says something about how American society treats madness.

00:03:48.000 We seem to treat really outlying insanity as a form of rationality.

00:03:52.000 And meanwhile, we treat kind of borderline normal behavior as mentally ill.

00:03:56.000 So we tend to over-diagnose, for example, depression, anxiety, ADHD, right?

00:04:01.000 Things that are sort of on the borderline of normalcy.

00:04:04.000 We tend to over-prescribe for those things.

00:04:06.000 Those things exist.

00:04:07.000 Some people need prescription medication for that, but we tend to over-prescribe that.

00:04:10.000 And we wildly Under serve people who have serious mental disorders ranging from bipolar disorder to schizophrenia, and we treat that as though it is normal behavior.

00:04:21.000 And finally, while being mad, while being disturbed does not relieve you of responsibility for your Jew hatred, it does suggest that we ought to take the pronouncements of Ye West with a certain lack of seriousness because this is a person in the middle of an episode.

00:04:37.000 There's no other way to play it.

00:04:39.000 And honestly, I can despise what he is saying because what he is saying is evil.

00:04:45.000 And I can also recognize that this is a person who needs treatment, not a camera.

00:04:49.000 This person needs treatment, not a set of lights in his face.

00:04:52.000 And there are a lot of people out there who are making a lot of money off of Ye by putting him in front of a camera.

00:04:58.000 There are a lot of people who are cynically utilizing this person's mental breakdown in order to facilitate their own career.

00:05:04.000 And here I'm thinking specifically of Nick Fuentes and Milo Yiannopoulos.

00:05:08.000 There are a bunch of people around Ye who could be attempting to get him the treatment he obviously needs.

00:05:14.000 I'm not here to pathologize people's insane thoughts or evil thoughts.

00:05:19.000 Again, he's sitting across from Nick Fuentes, who routinely engages in evil thoughts.

00:05:22.000 Okay, but Nick Fuentes is not an insane person.

00:05:25.000 Nick Fuentes is not having a mental breakdown.

00:05:26.000 He just thinks evil things.

00:05:28.000 Ye West, after his display over the past week particularly, Whatever you thought of him before, whether you thought that he was just an erratic personality who had decided to spew antisemitism, or whether you thought that he was perfectly rational, it is obvious over the course of the past several weeks that this is not the case and has not been the case for a while.

00:05:49.000 Ranging from his tweet storm in which he talked about Chris Paul stooping his wife, To his defense of Balenciaga to the actual appearance on Alex Jones.

00:05:57.000 We'll start this in order.

00:05:58.000 The only reason I'm playing these clips is because it's important for people to recognize because I'm seeing a lot of people who are denying what we are seeing from Ye here is actual mental illness.

00:06:07.000 It is mental illness.

00:06:08.000 Hey, this is disturbed behavior.

00:06:10.000 Any doctor will tell you that this is disturbed behavior.

00:06:13.000 First of all, I know psychologists who have spoken with Ye.

00:06:16.000 He is obviously disturbed, but you don't have to be a doctor to know this.

00:06:20.000 This is a disturbed human being.

00:06:23.000 And you can see it last night when you are on a set with Nick Fuentes and Alex Jones.

00:06:28.000 And those are the two rational guys in the room trying to pull you back from the brink, looking embarrassed by you standing for Hitler. 0.88

00:06:37.000 At that point, you have to start wondering, is there a problem?

00:06:39.000 I mean, your first indicator that there's a problem is when you stride into Alex Jones's studio.

00:06:43.000 First of all, that that in and of itself, not great.

00:06:45.000 You stride into Alex Jones's studio.

00:06:48.000 Wearing what appears to be an oversized baggy jacket and a full face covering black mask.

00:06:56.000 When I say a mask, I don't mean like just face.

00:06:58.000 It covers an entire head.

00:06:59.000 It looks like he's about to go rob a bank, except you can't even see his eyes.

00:07:03.000 He's literally there with what looks like a black sock over his head.

00:07:08.000 Apparently it's a Balenciaga sock over his head, as we'll discuss in a moment.

00:07:12.000 He actually defended Balenciaga yesterday.

00:07:13.000 So for all those people on the right who are saying, well, you know, yay, he's a good Christian who's just defending our honor.

00:07:18.000 First of all, if this is your Christian lineup, right, if this is the best Western Christendom has to offer, is yay last night Alex Jones and Nick Fuentes? 0.55

00:07:25.000 Western Christendom is in serious, serious trouble.

00:07:28.000 This guy, yesterday, was defending the company that put out pedophilic ads.

00:07:36.000 So there are a lot of problems.

00:07:37.000 So he walks in and he sits down looking like this.

00:07:39.000 For folks, again, who cannot see, he is sitting on the far left-hand side of the screen and he is wearing a very oversized baggy jacket and he is wearing a full-on black sock over his head.

00:07:50.000 You cannot see his eyes, you cannot see his face, you cannot see anything about him except what looks like an eraser head.

00:07:56.000 And then you've got Alex Jones in the middle and then you have Nick Fuentes on the end wearing some sort of blue hoodie, sweatshirt.

00:08:03.000 Okay, so here's Alex Jones with Ye West yesterday.

00:08:08.000 Well, that's right, you're not Hitler, you're not a Nazi, you don't deserve to be called that and demonized.

00:08:16.000 Well, I...

00:08:18.000 I see good things about Hitler also. 1.00

00:08:22.000 I love everyone, and Jewish people are not going to tell me, you can love us, and you can love what we're doing to you with the contracts, and you can love what we're pushing with the pornography, but this guy that Especially Hitler. 0.85

00:08:40.000 invented the very microphone that I use as a musician.

00:08:44.000 You can't say out loud that this person ever did anything good, and I'm done with that.

00:08:49.000 I'm done with the classifications.

00:08:51.000 Every human being has something of value that they brought to the table, especially Hitler. 0.94

00:08:57.000 Especially Hitler. 0.85

00:09:00.000 And now, coming out of a person who was not wearing a face covering mask, and who was not about to launch, sitting next to a copy of the Holy Bible, by the way.

00:09:14.000 He's speaking just as Jesus would here.

00:09:16.000 Yeah, he was.

00:09:19.000 Coming from a just normal anti-Semite, and there are some other people on the screen you could choose from. 0.80

00:09:24.000 You would say that this is just pure, rote anti-Semitism. 0.95

00:09:27.000 But as I say, I don't think this is just pure, rote, disgusting, craven anti-Semitism. 0.95

00:09:32.000 It is.

00:09:33.000 But I don't think that's the limit of it.

00:09:35.000 As you can see, Alex Jones gets more and more uncomfortable here.

00:09:37.000 And there is a certain perverse hilarity to the fact that Alex Jones is the moderate on the panel.

00:09:42.000 And Alex Jones is suddenly Larry King here.

00:09:45.000 But here's Alex Jones again trying to walk Ye West back from the Hitler support, the open Hitler support, and Ye just jumping into both feet.

00:09:54.000 I like Hitler. 1.00

00:09:55.000 I don't like Hitler.

00:09:57.000 And I know you're trying to be shocking with that.

00:09:58.000 I'm not trying to be shocking.

00:10:00.000 I like Hitler. 1.00

00:10:01.000 I do not.

00:10:02.000 The Holocaust is not what happened. 0.67

00:10:05.000 Let's look at the facts of that.

00:10:06.000 And Hitler has a lot of redeeming qualities. 0.98

00:10:10.000 Unbelievable.

00:10:12.000 Unbelievable. 0.96

00:10:13.000 Except that he's mad.

00:10:14.000 Except there's a person in the middle of a mental break.

00:10:16.000 And I say that, again, advisedly, because I'm not here to pathologize people's evil.

00:10:21.000 In fact, I prefer for people to take responsibility for their evil.

00:10:25.000 This person is in the middle of a mental breakdown.

00:10:27.000 And it's not just from that clip, or from his garb.

00:10:30.000 It is from this clip, I mean, where he actively starts, he took out The Prime Minister of Israel is a person named Benjamin Netanyahu.

00:10:39.000 Okay, Bibi Netanyahu, as he's called, his yay brought to the studio a small mat and a bottle of yoo-hoo.

00:10:49.000 I'm not kidding you, like the chocolate milk, yoo-hoo.

00:10:52.000 And he started trotting them around the table while doing the supposed voice of Benjamin Netanyahu, who he accused of attempting to kill him.

00:11:00.000 This is mad behavior. 0.98

00:11:03.000 This is mentally disturbed behavior.

00:11:04.000 This is not something... If you saw a person on the street doing this, you would understand.

00:11:08.000 This is a mentally disturbed person. 0.87

00:11:09.000 If you saw this in the halls of a mental hospital, you would understand. 1.00

00:11:11.000 This is a mentally disturbed person.

00:11:13.000 You put them on TV, and suddenly we're supposed to treat it like celebrity behavior.

00:11:18.000 We're supposed to treat every behavior by a celebrity as celebrity behavior, up until the point when they actually do something terrible to themselves.

00:11:24.000 I mean, honestly, that's my great fear here for Ye West, is that if he is in the middle of a manic episode, the depression on the other side of the mania very often is coincident with the level of the mania.

00:11:35.000 So if the mania is really high, the depression is really low.

00:11:37.000 So I mean, I would not be surprised, God forbid, something should happen, that Ye should do something to himself, given his behavior. 0.99

00:11:44.000 I mean, again, My grandfather was schizophrenic.

00:11:47.000 I know what serious mental illness looks like.

00:11:49.000 This is serious mental illness and we are watching it.

00:11:52.000 And people are treating it for a variety of reasons as though it is not mentally ill behavior.

00:11:57.000 You have some people on the left treating it as though it's not mentally ill behavior so that they can link Ye West's despicable views on Jews with Donald Trump and then Donald Trump by proxy to the entire Republican Party.

00:12:07.000 You have some people in the media who are treating it not that way because they wish to make money off the ratings.

00:12:12.000 I feel bad even talking about this a little bit at this point, given the fact that this is a disturbed individual.

00:12:19.000 But again, I keep saying he's a disturbed individual because I want people to understand, number one, that the words he is saying make no sense.

00:12:26.000 And that's not an insult.

00:12:27.000 They don't make any sense.

00:12:28.000 They are nonsensical.

00:12:30.000 And I also would love for people to understand, who are defending EA West, that when you defend a person who is in the middle of a mental episode, you are not doing them any good.

00:12:40.000 You are not adding value to the world.

00:12:41.000 You're doing something quite cruel.

00:12:43.000 Here's Yehwesh going mad on air.

00:12:45.000 I mean, there's no other way to put this.

00:12:48.000 The ADL had a meeting two weeks ago and said, Alex Jones is an agent of evil.

00:12:51.000 He should be taken off the air.

00:12:52.000 He's the devil because he doesn't want you to take four shots. 0.98

00:12:55.000 And I'm like, what are you doing calling me anti-Semitic?

00:12:57.000 I'm not against groups.

00:12:58.000 I don't get into group politics.

00:12:59.000 Adam, I've got the perfect answer for the ADL.

00:13:04.000 They are going to have to listen up.

00:13:07.000 What we did is we brought Netanyahu with us.

00:13:11.000 Netanyahu.

00:13:12.000 What do you have to say?

00:13:13.000 What do you have to say to Alex Jones right now, Nick Fuentes, and Ye?

00:13:19.000 It was bad.

00:13:20.000 It was bad for Trump to meet with Nick and Ye.

00:13:25.000 Okay.

00:13:27.000 I had no idea your voice was gonna sound like that, Netanyahu.

00:13:32.000 This is wild.

00:13:33.000 I mean, this is... Even Alex Jones, on the air, was calling this crazy, and Ye was like, who are you calling crazy?

00:13:38.000 And Alex Jones was like, the whole world is crazy!

00:13:40.000 The whole world is crazy! 1.00

00:13:41.000 But what he really means is, you are crazy. 1.00

00:13:43.000 When Alex Jones is calling you crazy, obviously, there is a problem. 0.99

00:13:48.000 I mean, even Alex Jones, throughout the interview, again, the rich irony of this is that Alex Jones has finally been embarrassed by another human being. 0.53

00:13:54.000 He's an embarrassing human being all on his own, and he was embarrassed by another human being here, being Ye. 1.00

00:13:59.000 And you can actually see it on camera. 0.95

00:14:00.000 Here's a little bit of that.

00:14:02.000 So you don't like Benjamin Netanyahu?

00:14:06.000 I just, I just heard about this guy two weeks ago.

00:14:09.000 So it's like the tweet and I thought he had a funny name.

00:14:12.000 I heard he's like really into like, he's like a super killer.

00:14:16.000 I could die for saying this.

00:14:17.000 So in case this is the last time you ever hear from me.

00:14:20.000 I'm glad you guys are here and we can, we can, we can sit here and upset all I'm telling you is.

00:14:26.000 Do you guys realize that the British government created Hitler, and the Milner group put him in power, and there's something much more sophisticated, and I personally think that most Jews are great people, and I understand there's a Jewish mafia, and they're used to demonize anybody that promotes freedom, but I don't blame Jews in general.

00:14:47.000 Alex Jones trying to uh trying to walk back Jew hatred there.

00:14:51.000 I know the Jews man and the British created Hitler but um most Jews are I mean like Alex Jones trying to play the moderate man. 0.99

00:14:59.000 Okay so again, Yay West isn't I keep saying it over and over because I think that There are too many people out there who are pretending that it is not the case for a variety of reasons.

00:15:08.000 Yesterday, Ye West tweeted out before being banned from Twitter, which we'll discuss in a moment, quote, I stand by Balenciaga and denounce all witch hunts and I cancel, cancel culture.

00:15:16.000 Jesus is king.

00:15:17.000 Ending trafficking doesn't start or end with a fashion campaign for Christ's sake. 0.99

00:15:23.000 And then he tweeted again, featuring a picture of himself, never turn our backs.

00:15:26.000 Demna and the Balenciaga family for life.

00:15:28.000 Cancel, cancel, cancel, cancel culture.

00:15:31.000 Jesus, please heal.

00:15:33.000 So this person who is apparently standing against the anti-Christians out there is tweeting in favor of Balenciaga, which, as we discussed earlier this week, put out a full ad campaign with children carrying bears wearing bondage gear.

00:15:51.000 Does this seem like calibrated behavior to you?

00:15:54.000 Is this calibrated behavior?

00:15:57.000 I think not.

00:15:58.000 This does raise some rather large scale questions about the treatment of actual disturbed behavior in American society.

00:16:04.000 There's been a long time problem in American society with being able to label normal behavior and abnormal behavior.

00:16:10.000 What you're seeing here is obviously abnormal, disturbed behavior.

00:16:13.000 But American society, we've been, I think this is symptomatic of something greater.

00:16:17.000 The fact that people have a tough time with this one, with labeling it, with actually recognizing what this is, is a symptom of a culture that, as I said earlier, really goes far too light on serious mental illness, in terms of attempting to treat it, and find it, and do something about it, and goes way too heavy on milder forms of depression, anxiety, and things that are actually treatable, but are not medicated, don't always need medication.

00:16:45.000 And we both undertreat mental illness and we overtreat mental illness.

00:16:48.000 We both over-label and we under-label.

00:16:50.000 Some of this goes back all the way to the 1960s.

00:16:52.000 There is a famous psychologist named Thomas Zaz who wrote a book back in the 1960s called The Myth of Mental Illness, in which he basically suggested that mental illness was itself a myth and it was all a form of sort of neurodiversity.

00:17:06.000 And when you saw someone with schizophrenia, it wasn't somebody who had a serious condition who needed help.

00:17:10.000 That was just another form of people acting in the world.

00:17:14.000 Here's what Thomas Zaz talked about in terms of mental illness.

00:17:16.000 And this is sort of a seminal point in how we treat mental illness in this country and how we see mental illness in this country.

00:17:21.000 And this has some pretty widespread ramifications because now this is not just about yay.

00:17:25.000 There are two major issues on the table.

00:17:27.000 One is the anti-Semitism and the growing anti-Semitism in American society that unfortunately has been spreading on nearly all sides.

00:17:33.000 Because they're, forget about Ye being mad, there are literally millions of people who agree with Ye and look at what he said and think, hmm, maybe there's something there.

00:17:40.000 That's a problem we have to discuss.

00:17:42.000 But then there's a second problem.

00:17:43.000 And that is that we are a society that is gradually growing more and more disturbed.

00:17:48.000 We're seeing more and more disturbed behavior.

00:17:50.000 From vast majorities of people suggesting that they are members of a sex that is not their own, to people who are delusionally violent.

00:18:01.000 To the streets being taken over in places like Los Angeles by people who actually have drug abuse or mental illness problems.

00:18:07.000 We're a society that has, because we are so radically individually autonomous, we have basically decided that all forms of behavior are not mentally disturbed behavior.

00:18:16.000 There's no such thing as mentally disturbed behavior.

00:18:18.000 That's a serious problem.

00:18:19.000 That is not a society that takes normality or decency seriously.

00:18:24.000 And it's something we have to discuss on a broader level.

00:18:27.000 Here, going back to the 1960s, is Thomas Ha talking about his view of the mental illness industry, essentially.

00:18:35.000 I look upon the mental health profession today as a gigantic apparatus of molestation.

00:18:41.000 Molestation?

00:18:41.000 That's a loaded word.

00:18:42.000 Yeah.

00:18:43.000 How do you mean it?

00:18:45.000 Intrusive.

00:18:47.000 Intrusive.

00:18:52.000 The average person doesn't know how to resist mental health help.

00:18:58.000 Look how much of it is directed to the three helpless groups.

00:19:02.000 Children, old people, prisoners. 0.90

00:19:06.000 Prisoners are full of saccharic drugs now.

00:19:09.000 Right?

00:19:10.000 They go to jail for drugs.

00:19:11.000 They go to jail for drugs, and then they go to jail for the drugs they like to take, and then when they're in jail, they are forced to take the drugs they don't want to take.

00:19:22.000 That in some ways characterizes the American drug scene today.

00:19:25.000 The drugs people want to take are illegal, and the drugs they don't want to take, psychiatry forces on them.

00:19:32.000 And the mental health profession does not complain about this.

00:19:35.000 On the contrary, it supports this.

00:19:39.000 So the idea from Zaz, and this has been taken up, again this is a seminal work in sort of the history of American psychology and psychiatry, is that mental health care is mostly trying to control other people.

00:19:49.000 It's mostly molestation.

00:19:50.000 That when you see people who are disturbed and you try to actually change their behavior, this is a form of you invading their autonomy.

00:19:57.000 Well, that's not true.

00:19:58.000 When you watch somebody who is seriously disturbed, and again, we are watching this happen in real time with one of the biggest celebrities on the planet.

00:20:04.000 When you watch that stuff happen, you are not doing anything sympathetic by pretending that this is just another aspect of autonomy.

00:20:11.000 And we're seeing this society-wide.

00:20:13.000 Behavior that is clearly not mentally well is being treated as mentally well.

00:20:18.000 You see it in our celebrity culture all the time.

00:20:20.000 Celebrities who melt down, and we pretend that their behavior is totally fine and totally normal, up until they attempt to commit suicide, and then we say, oh god, what happened to this person?

00:20:28.000 And the answer is, well, all the signs were there.

00:20:31.000 And then we have a society that also suggests that individual autonomy is so strong that when you see somebody displaying really, really disturbed behavior as a teenager, it doesn't get reported.

00:20:41.000 Or if it does get reported, it gets ignored by law enforcement.

00:20:43.000 And then people go and they shoot up a Walmart.

00:20:45.000 If you want to treat mental health seriously, this is a completely bipartisan issue.

00:20:48.000 If you want to treat mental health seriously, you must treat mental health seriously.

00:20:53.000 Because you've seen the costs of this on a societal level.

00:20:57.000 You've seen it in terms of rising homelessness violence in places like New York and LA.

00:21:02.000 There's a reason why Eric Adams, the new mayor of New York, has now suggested you might need involuntary commitment of the mentally ill who are not threatening to others but are threatening to themselves.

00:21:11.000 And you've seen it in terms of the broad societal acceptance of ideas that are simply false.

00:21:20.000 Mainstreaming mental illness is not a good thing.

00:21:24.000 And pretending that it doesn't exist is not a good thing.

00:21:27.000 And again, there are two sides to every coin.

00:21:29.000 At the same time, over-pathologizing what is in the realm of normal behavior is bad as well.

00:21:35.000 But we have to recognize both of those things are happening right now in the United States.

00:21:39.000 We'll get to more on this in just one second.

00:21:41.000 First, you know your home, theoretically, could get damaged.

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00:22:41.000 Again, PolicyGenius.com slash ShapiroHome to start protecting your home the way you should today.

00:22:48.000 Also, it's tough to run a business.

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00:23:50.000 Okay, so meanwhile, Ye has been suspended from Twitter.

00:23:54.000 This has been suspended from Twitter after this tweet storm last night that concluded with him tweeting out an image of the Jewish star, the Magen David, with a swastika inside, which is the most typical example of anti-Semitism.

00:24:06.000 The anti-Semites, people who hate Jews, they have this very bizarre view of the Nazis.

00:24:12.000 That the Jews are the Nazis, but also that the Nazis were good. 0.98

00:24:16.000 The most extreme version of the anti-Semitic story.

00:24:18.000 You see this a lot in the radical Muslim world.

00:24:21.000 As you'll see, Zionism is Nazism, but also Hitler wasn't bad. 1.00

00:24:25.000 It's weird to have it both ways that way.

00:24:27.000 That Hitler was doing the right thing, but also the Jews are the new Hitler. 1.00

00:24:30.000 But this is precisely what is argued by the world's worst anti-Semites.

00:24:33.000 This is exactly what Ye was tweeting out amidst all the Holocaust denial last night.

00:24:37.000 Ended up being banned from Twitter.

00:24:40.000 Asked on Twitter by a user to fix Kanye, please, Elon Musk replied, I tried my best.

00:24:43.000 Despite that, he again violated our rule against incitement to violence.

00:24:46.000 Account will be suspended.

00:24:49.000 West's account then began displaying a message saying it was suspended with no tweets visible.

00:24:53.000 Musk, who owns Twitter, has described himself as a free speech absolutist.

00:24:55.000 He has said that Twitter generally should only intervene to comply with local laws.

00:25:00.000 West's account had been restored before, right?

00:25:02.000 Including after that tweet that said that he planned to go DEFCON 3 on Jewish people. 0.52

00:25:08.000 Well, at a certain point here, he was asked, was Musk, about why he had banned Ye, he said it was incitement, and then somebody said, well, what about free speech?

00:25:19.000 And he wrote FAFO, right, F Around and Find Out, essentially.

00:25:23.000 Now, is what Ye is doing tantamount to incitement?

00:25:28.000 I don't think so because I have a very strict legal standard for incitement.

00:25:30.000 So do I think that Ye actually should be banned from Twitter?

00:25:34.000 I think the answer is no.

00:25:35.000 I don't think that Ye should be banned from Twitter.

00:25:37.000 In fact, I think the more that Ye has exposed his own behavior, the less seriously people are likely to take his views.

00:25:43.000 Because when you sit there doing weird Elmo voices, carrying a net and a bottle of Yoohoo, People tend to take you less seriously when you show up on Tim Pool with Milo Yiannopoulos and Nick Fuentes and Tim Pool simply asks you why you are slandering all Jews as opposed to just naming the Hollywood agents that you don't like and you get up and you walk out.

00:26:03.000 Sunlight is a pretty good disinfectant here.

00:26:06.000 Do I think that Ye is responsible for for actually inciting violence against people?

00:26:10.000 Do I think he's raising the temperature radically?

00:26:10.000 No.

00:26:12.000 Absolutely.

00:26:13.000 And I speak as somebody who's personally targeted by name by Ye in all these interviews. 0.95

00:26:17.000 There's a reason I have 24-7 security.

00:26:20.000 Do I think that Ye is responsible for incitement to the extent that would be necessary to ban him from a platform like Twitter?

00:26:27.000 I do not.

00:26:28.000 I understand why Musk did it.

00:26:29.000 Do I think that Musk should have done it?

00:26:32.000 I actually don't think that Musk should have done it.

00:26:34.000 So all of these things can be true at once, as always.

00:26:39.000 The yay should not be banned from Twitter.

00:26:40.000 Yay definitely needs treatment. 1.00

00:26:42.000 People who are treating him seriously for their own purposes are sick deviants. 0.98

00:26:46.000 The people around him who are using a person who's in the middle of a breakdown for their own purposes are perverse and cynical. 0.96

00:26:52.000 Members of the media who are trying to use a madman's comments to tie him to an entire side of the political spectrum.

00:26:59.000 are well past their skis at this point.

00:27:02.000 And also the rising problem of Jew hatred in American society is very, very real.

00:27:07.000 And it exists, unfortunately, on all sides.

00:27:08.000 I've talked about before extensively on the program.

00:27:11.000 When you're talking about Jew hatred in American side, you're talking about multiple forces that are converging on a single point. 0.93

00:27:16.000 So you have white supremacists who believe that Jews are undermining Christendom and that Jews are the problem in American side. 0.96

00:27:25.000 That would be the Nick Fuentes category of Jew-hating anti-Semites. 0.96

00:27:29.000 And then you have left-wing anti-Semites who suggest that Jews are essentially a conspiracy of power who are manipulating world forces in their own favor, right? 0.90

00:27:38.000 The Jews are all the best capitalists. 0.71

00:27:40.000 The Jews are in control of industry. 1.00

00:27:41.000 The Jews are very powerful because in the Middle East, Israel has extensive military power.

00:27:46.000 And so that's essentially just a conspiracy theory about Jews.

00:27:49.000 It's sort of protocols of the elders of Zion style anti-Semitism. 0.69

00:27:53.000 Jews in the back rooms controlling all of the levers of power. 1.00

00:27:56.000 That crosses streams sometimes with the white supremacist sort of a horseshoe theory here. 0.50

00:27:59.000 But you see that sort of conspiratorial Jews have the power anti-Semitism from the Rashida Tlaib Ilhan Omar wing of the Democratic Party. 0.91

00:28:08.000 And then you also have some just old school racial antisemitism. 0.99

00:28:13.000 The Jews as a race are perverse. 1.00

00:28:15.000 The Jews as a race are somehow of tainted blood. 1.00

00:28:19.000 And you see that mostly from the white supremacist side of the aisle. 1.00

00:28:22.000 You also see this somewhat in the radical Muslim world when they call Jews the sons of pigs and monkeys and all of the rest. 0.99

00:28:29.000 The question as to why this is rising right now, because it clearly is rising. 0.98

00:28:32.000 The number of Jews who have been attacked in the United States is on the uptick.

00:28:36.000 By the way, none of this means that Jews have a quote-unquote bad in America.

00:28:39.000 Jews do not have a bad in America.

00:28:40.000 Jews are extraordinarily fortunate in America.

00:28:42.000 If you look at Jewish history, America is the greatest country in world history for the Jews.

00:28:47.000 America is an exceptionally free place.

00:28:50.000 Jews have been extraordinarily successful in the United States.

00:28:53.000 Jews right now are generally safe in the United States unless you're walking around wearing a yarmulke on the streets of Williamsburg. 1.00

00:28:59.000 New Jersey.

00:29:01.000 However, the question is not sort of how bad are things on an absolute level for Jews.

00:29:06.000 The question is why the tide is rising in terms of anti-Semitism.

00:29:10.000 And the answer typically is that a confident society, a society that believes in its own moral status, a society that doesn't feel threatened by minority groups that are successful within it, doesn't feel the need to target the Jews.

00:29:22.000 When everything is coming apart at the seams, When madness is roaming free, and we talked about individual madness before in the context of the able, when we talk about societal madness, societal madness is a fragmented social psychology in which we can't agree on basic values at all.

00:29:38.000 We don't share the same set of fact patterns.

00:29:39.000 We don't share the same news.

00:29:41.000 We don't share the same basic ideas what reality constitutes.

00:29:44.000 We don't share the same moral system.

00:29:46.000 When that happens, As society tends to tear apart, as the social fabric is strained, and as those threads start to stretch, antisemitism starts seeping through.

00:29:57.000 Because antisemitism, in the end, is a giant conspiracy theory about power in the world, and blaming it on a minority.

00:30:05.000 And the minority, typically, is the Jews, for whatever reason. 0.55

00:30:08.000 If you're a person of the Bible, you believe it's because this was said in the Bible.

00:30:11.000 If you're not a person of the Bible, it would be because Jews are Very successful minorities. 0.85

00:30:16.000 And you see this with other successful middlemen, what they call middlemen minorities. 0.82

00:30:20.000 For example, ethnic Chinese in certain countries in East Asia.

00:30:24.000 But in the West, it's typically been the Jews.

00:30:26.000 And so when society starts to fragment, when society starts to come apart, when it doesn't have the confidence in itself that it used to have, when it doesn't have anything that's shared, typically all the guns turn on the Jews. 0.86

00:30:38.000 And that's what we're starting to see on all sides.

00:30:42.000 Anti-Semitism has also become a bit of a political football here.

00:30:45.000 Meaning that what you will see is people condemning, on the right, anti-Semitism on the left.

00:30:50.000 They're very happy to condemn Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib.

00:30:52.000 But when it's coming from Nick Fuentes, or when it is coming from Ye West, or when it is coming from people on the right, Then all of a sudden it's like, well, you know, the left won't condemn anti-Semitism on their side, so why should we condemn anti-Semitism on ours?

00:31:08.000 That is not the way that you condemn anti-Semitism.

00:31:10.000 You see the same thing on the left.

00:31:11.000 The ADL will be all over Donald Trump for having dinner with the A.U.S., but they'll have nothing to say about Nancy Pelosi doing a cover photo shoot with Ilhan Omar.

00:31:19.000 They'll have nothing to say about Louis Farrakhan in the halls of Congress with members of the Congressional Black Caucus, historically speaking.

00:31:26.000 I have nothing to say about that sort of stuff.

00:31:27.000 Well, the answer is that if anti-Semitism is only, if Jew hatred is only something that you care about on your own side of the aisle, you don't care about Jew hatred.

00:31:35.000 It's that simple.

00:31:36.000 But we're going to have to come together over something in this country, because if we don't come together over something, we will come apart over everything.

00:31:43.000 And that's what we're watching right now.

00:31:46.000 Historically speaking, successful countries that are confident in their own values do not feel the necessity to go after the middlemen minorities. 1.00

00:31:53.000 They don't feel the necessity to go after the Jews.

00:31:55.000 All of the darkest powers in life are kept in check.

00:32:00.000 That is no longer happening.

00:32:01.000 And that's why you're seeing madness being treated as normalcy in the case of Ye West until it becomes so clear that he's got a Yoohoo bottle and a net and he's doing a weird voice on Alex Jones.

00:32:10.000 And it's also why if you just shade it slightly, right? 0.68

00:32:13.000 If you take what Ye is saying and you just shade it slightly, you rub off the rough edges, then suddenly it starts to look like a lot of crap that you see in the halls of academia in the United States. 0.94

00:32:21.000 You see it coming from Berkeley professors. 0.92

00:32:23.000 Not in the weird form of a guy who is wearing a black hoodie, like full-on face mask on his face, like a gimp mask on his face, but in the form of a highfalutin professor at a major Ivy League university. 0.96

00:32:35.000 The sickness and cancer that is Jew hatred Yes, it's about Jews because it's targeting Jews, but really it's more about the society that allows Jew hatred to thrive. 0.96

00:32:45.000 So we have a society that is allowing Jew hatred to continue and increase. 0.98

00:32:51.000 Because of all these conspiracy theories from the far right and from the left and from everybody in between.

00:32:55.000 When you start to see that, when you simultaneously see a society that has so little confidence in the very idea of individual mental normalcy, that we are absolutely unwilling to actually even say that somebody has a problem.

00:33:08.000 And that that person's problem is a very serious problem.

00:33:10.000 And the only time we ever say that somebody has a serious problem, by the way, is if they politically disagree with us, right? 0.90

00:33:16.000 The only time that we'll ever say that, like, you'll see the left on the aisle, you know who's really mentally ill? 0.99

00:33:19.000 That's Donald Trump. 1.00

00:33:20.000 That's a guy who's seriously mentally ill. 1.00

00:33:23.000 When it comes to people on your own side of the aisle, you just go completely silent. 0.98

00:33:26.000 When that is the kind of society that you are, that is so polarized around particular political narratives, that you can't call out clear violations of norms.

00:33:36.000 There are no norms left to violate.

00:33:38.000 And when there are no norms left to violate, And it turns out that everything breaks down incredibly quickly and things get very ugly, very, very fast.

00:33:45.000 That's why I think you're seeing a lot of nervousness in American society from a lot of Jewish people right now. 1.00

00:33:52.000 Because again, whether it is the New York Times downplaying anti-Semitic attacks in Williamsburg, or whether it is some people on the right pretending that there's not a rising tide of anti-Semitism on the very, very far right.

00:34:04.000 It's um... It's egregious stuff.

00:34:07.000 It's egregious stuff.

00:34:07.000 And it speaks more to the... Anti-Semitism is rarely the disease.

00:34:11.000 Anti-Semitism isn't even the cancer.

00:34:13.000 Societal cancer. 0.86

00:34:14.000 is the disease.

00:34:16.000 And antisemitism is its most obvious symptom.

00:34:19.000 In just one second, we'll get to LeBron James, who has some comments about Jerry Jones.

00:34:23.000 First, as we've been talking about, antisemitism has been on the rise, not just in the United States, not just in Europe.

00:34:27.000 Unfortunately, in a lot of places, this is one reason why I partner with the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews.

00:34:33.000 The fellowship is the leading non-profit dedicated to blessing Israel and the Jewish people around the world with humanitarian care and life-saving aid.

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00:35:14.000 That's benforthefellowship.org or text SHAPIRO to 41444.

00:35:19.000 Again, text SHAPIRO to 41444 to get started with your giving.

00:35:23.000 Well folks, last Friday we launched a brand new biblical series by Dr. Jordan B. Peterson.

00:35:27.000 The series is called Exodus.

00:35:28.000 And in it, Jordan Peterson sits down with other scholars to read the book of Exodus and discuss what it means and why it remains significant thousands of years after it was written.

00:35:36.000 Scholars at the table include Dennis Prager, Jonathan Pegeau, and many more.

00:35:39.000 Episodes 1, 2, and 3 are available to stream right now.

00:35:42.000 There will be new episodes releasing weekly.

00:35:44.000 Trust me, you have to see the series.

00:35:45.000 It's fantastic.

00:35:46.000 Check out the trailer.

00:35:48.000 The Hebrews created history as we know it.

00:35:53.000 You don't get away with anything.

00:35:55.000 And so you might think you can bend the fabric of reality and that you can treat people instrumentally and that you can bow to the tyrant and violate your conscience without cost.

00:36:03.000 You will pay the piper.

00:36:04.000 It's going to call you out of that slavery into freedom, even if that pulls you into the desert.

00:36:13.000 And we're going to see that there's something else going on here that is far more cosmic and deeper than what you can imagine.

00:36:20.000 The highest ethical spirit to which we're beholden is presented precisely as that spirit that allies itself with the cause of freedom against tyranny.

00:36:33.000 Yes, exactly!

00:36:34.000 I want villains to get punished!

00:36:35.000 But do you want the villains to learn before they have to pay the ultimate price?

00:36:39.000 That's such a Christian question.

00:36:41.000 You have to be a member to watch so head on over to dailywire.com slash subscribe become a member watch Exodus today.

00:36:55.000 Alrighty, so, meanwhile, LeBron James is very, very upset at the media.

00:37:00.000 Why exactly is LeBron James upset at the media?

00:37:02.000 Well, he's upset at the media because they didn't ask him questions about Jerry Jones.

00:37:07.000 Now, what you ask, does Jerry Jones have to do with anything?

00:37:10.000 Well, Jerry Jones is the owner of the Dallas Cowboys.

00:37:12.000 And about a week ago, there was a report In the Washington Post, by David Marinus and Sally Jenkins, about Jerry Jones.

00:37:23.000 And the report was that Jerry Jones, when he was 14 years old, was at North Little Rock High, so this is in 1957, because he was born in 1943.

00:37:34.000 And he is standing a few yards from where six black students were being jostled and repelled with snarling racial slurs by ringleaders of a mob, again in Arkansas.

00:37:44.000 At one point, a Black student named Richard Lindsay recalled someone in the crowd put a hand on the back of his neck.

00:37:48.000 A voice behind him said, The Ruffian hostility succeeded in turning away the would-be new enrollees.

00:37:55.000 The confrontation occurred 65 years ago.

00:37:57.000 On September 9, 1957, during the same month, a higher-profile integration effort was taking place at Little Rock Central High in the capital city a few miles away.

00:38:04.000 The story of the Little Rock Nine, when President Dwight D. Eisenhower dispatched federal troops to escort the trailblazing black students past the spitting hordes, is regarded as a pivotal moment in the civil rights movement. 1.00

00:38:13.000 It overshadowed the ugly events unfolding contemporaneously at Jones' high school on the other side of the Arkansas River, an episode mostly lost to history, though not entirely.

00:38:20.000 The photograph, taken by William Strader of the EAP, shows a young Jones wearing a striped shirt, craning for a better view, looking like a little burrhead, as he said in a recent interview with the Washington Post, acknowledging his presence on the steps that day.

00:38:31.000 He was one month from turning 15.

00:38:34.000 He showed up near the conflict epicenter, stationed on the top landing near the school's double-leaf entry doors, a face in a rear row of human bulwark intent on keeping people out because of the color of their skin.

00:38:43.000 Jones said he was there only to watch, not participate.

00:38:45.000 He said, I don't know that I or anybody anticipated or had a background of knowing what was involved.

00:38:48.000 It was more of a curious thing.

00:38:50.000 The photographs indicate Jones had to scurry around the North Little Rock Six to reach the top of the stairs before the black students completed their walk up the schoolhouse door.

00:38:57.000 And while Jones offered a common explanation of the confrontation, that it was the work of older white supremacists, most of those surrounding the six young black men were teenagers.

00:39:05.000 Jerry Jones is now 80.

00:39:06.000 Okay, so if you actually look at the picture, what you will see is a bunch of guys who look like they are ranging in age from maybe 17 to 30 surrounding these black students and jostling them.

00:39:20.000 And then in the very back of the crowd, you can see Jerry Jones as a 14 year old looking on curiously.

00:39:27.000 Okay, so what does this have to do with LeBron James?

00:39:28.000 Well, LeBron James has been asked repeatedly about Kyrie Irving.

00:39:32.000 And the reason he's been asked about Kyrie Irving is because Kyrie Irving tweeted out a video from Amazon that was distributed on Amazon that was a Holocaust-denying, bizarre black Hebrew-Israelite conspiracy theory about how the blacks are the real Jews and all the rest of this, and this ended with an overwrought suspension from the NBA for Kyrie Irving.

00:39:49.000 As a general matter, I believe that sports leagues should not be suspending members of the league based on their viewpoint, largely because I think that they sometimes get it wrong. 0.83

00:39:58.000 And almost always, it allows people like me to say, wait, hold up, half your league is using cocaine and nailing prostitutes.

00:40:06.000 But this guy tweeted out a video from Amazon, like, I'm not sure exactly what your standards are. 0.55

00:40:12.000 And it's true for every league.

00:40:14.000 The standards are really, really bizarre.

00:40:17.000 Anyway, LeBron James was asked about that, but one of the reasons that he was asked about that is because he sort of came out in quasi-defense of Kyrie Irving, and that had followed his own history of anti-Semitic comments.

00:40:24.000 He had tweeted out before statements about Jew money and all the rest.

00:40:29.000 So, LeBron James is going to use this as an opportunity to go after the media.

00:40:32.000 LeBron James is going to say, why isn't the media asking me about Jerry Jones?

00:40:36.000 Well, maybe the reason the media is not asking about Jerry Jones is because Jerry Jones was 14 years old in 1957 and the story is 65 years old in a sport that is not your own.

00:40:45.000 And you have been particularly hesitant to call out causes in which you are directly involved or leagues in which you are directly involved with your friends.

00:40:52.000 Maybe that would be why.

00:40:53.000 But according to LeBron James, obviously it's media racism.

00:40:57.000 I was wondering why I haven't gotten a question from you guys about the Jerry Jones photo.

00:41:03.000 But when the Kyrie thing was going on, you guys were quick to ask us questions about that.

00:41:07.000 As a black man, as a black athlete, as someone with power and a platform, when we do something wrong or something that people don't agree with, it's on every single tabloid, every single news coverage, it's on the bottom ticker, it's asked about every single day.

00:41:31.000 But it seems like to me that the whole Jerry Jones situation photo, and I know it was years and years ago and we all make mistakes, I get it.

00:41:39.000 But it seems like it's just been buried under like, oh it happened, okay we just, we just move on.

00:41:47.000 Well, I mean, just to be clear, the story itself says that Jerry Jones was 14 years old.

00:41:52.000 I have a basic rule.

00:41:53.000 The basic rule is that if you're under, say, 17 years of age, and the event happened 60 plus years ago, and there was no actual criminal activity, and it's a picture of you, that's not much of a story.

00:42:06.000 I'm sorry to say that, but you can't even attribute full motive to Jerry Jones when he is 14 years old, standing at the back of a crowd looking on at an incident that's happening at his school.

00:42:15.000 Have you ever met a 14 year old kid going to a high school?

00:42:18.000 Like under any circumstances?

00:42:19.000 If there's like a shiny light, all the kids run around.

00:42:22.000 But in any case, there's no way to actually attribute that action to Jerry Jones, but LeBron is very exercised over the fact that he wasn't asked about the Jerry Jones photo, but he was asked about Kyrie.

00:42:31.000 Well, maybe it's because LeBron James has sounded off on pretty much every topic.

00:42:34.000 He doesn't need to be asked about Jerry Jones.

00:42:35.000 He'll just sound off about it.

00:42:37.000 He won't sound off about Chinese human rights violations because he's getting paid too much money by China. 0.94

00:42:43.000 He'll sound off about how America is terrible, how America is racist and horrible, but he'll go completely silent when it comes to anti-Semitic nonsense from members of his own league. 0.94

00:42:52.000 That would be the reason. 0.95

00:42:53.000 But again, the idea here in the sports world is that everybody is racist.

00:43:00.000 I guess the same people who are paying you hundreds of millions.

00:43:02.000 I mean, LeBron James is a billionaire.

00:43:05.000 The same people who are paying you tons and tons of money to watch you play sports are somehow racist because they didn't ask you about Jerry Jones.

00:43:12.000 Strange.

00:43:13.000 Here's Stephen A. Smith doing the same routine.

00:43:15.000 Again, a man who is paid a lot of money to shout on your TV.

00:43:19.000 I can't applaud LeBron enough for what he said.

00:43:24.000 I 1000% agree with LeBron James because that wasn't about Jerry Jones.

00:43:30.000 But what LeBron was talking about is unavoidable.

00:43:34.000 The media.

00:43:36.000 Trump says something.

00:43:38.000 They asked LeBron to bribe him.

00:43:40.000 They asked LeBron about the presidential campaign when Trump was running against Hillary Rodham Clinton.

00:43:45.000 Now, obviously, him endorsing Hillary Rodham Clinton had something to do with that.

00:43:49.000 But clearly, LeBron James has been subjected to question after question after question.

00:43:53.000 But suddenly, when it came to Jerry Jones, you didn't ask?

00:43:56.000 Because I assure you, if I was in that press room, I would have asked LeBron about it.

00:43:59.000 I would have said, yo, LeBron, by the way, how do you feel about this?

00:44:04.000 Oh, it must be racism.

00:44:06.000 It must be racism.

00:44:09.000 It is funny how far we will go in search of racism.

00:44:13.000 Meanwhile, there are other forms of bigotry in the United States that are in fact rising.

00:44:18.000 Racism in the United States against black Americans has been on the decline markedly since the 1960s.

00:44:23.000 I mean, obviously.

00:44:26.000 And then when it comes to other forms of bigotry, say, for example, official bigotry against Asians at major American schools, that we just ignore.

00:44:32.000 When it comes to the uptick in anti-Semitism, depending upon who the source of the anti-Semitism is, we just kind of look the other way on that sort of stuff.

00:44:40.000 So if this is the best that LeBron can do, again, LeBron has never even really seriously been asked about his own viewpoints.

00:44:47.000 Forget about Jerry Jones.

00:44:50.000 All of this is obviously very tiring and destructive to the American fabric, but that is sort of the norm of the day.

00:44:59.000 As long as I'm criticizing the media, I do have to give the rare shout out to Don Lemon, who actually said the correct thing the other day.

00:45:03.000 This is always a shocker.

00:45:04.000 So Don Lemon was on CNN, and he actually defended higher pay for men at the World Cup, which, shocker, I'm broken clock here, getting it right twice a day.

00:45:13.000 But not everybody, honestly, has the same skill.

00:45:16.000 Not everybody has the same interest in the sport.

00:45:19.000 I think the women should be paid more. 1.00

00:45:20.000 I do.

00:45:21.000 But if the men... You're right that not everyone has the same skills, because the women are better skilled.

00:45:25.000 Well, the women are better skilled against other women. 1.00

00:45:28.000 But if the women played the men, they wouldn't be winning. 1.00

00:45:31.000 the way that they win. Okay, I'm not going to get into that.

00:45:36.000 I'm just saying if the sport makes more money, that means there's more money available. Why does it make more money?

00:45:41.000 Because people are more interested in it. No, because they see it. When I go to a sports bar, guys, am I wrong? You guys don't want to say anything. When I go to a sports bar, if there is a woman's basketball game on, I'm just being honest. Which is on air less. 0.63

00:45:52.000 People will say, can you flip it to the guys? I don't want to watch this. I'm just telling you.

00:45:58.000 Wow, Don Lemon spilling some truth, saying the T on CNN.

00:46:03.000 That is a rarity right there.

00:46:04.000 I do love all the women who are like, no, no, it can't be true. 0.93

00:46:07.000 I'm not even going to get into this argument that women aren't as good at soccer as men. 0.60

00:46:10.000 And the reason that people aren't watching the WNBA is because it's not on TV as much.

00:46:14.000 Why wouldn't it be on TV?

00:46:16.000 Maybe it's because people don't want to watch it as much.

00:46:19.000 Would it be that?

00:46:20.000 Bill Burr has a great bit in his Live at Red Rock comedy bit or his routine where he talks about the lack of attendance at the WNBA.

00:46:28.000 And he says, well, I'm just I'm just wondering, ladies, you constitute a majority of Americans. 0.66

00:46:33.000 Why aren't you at the WNBA games?

00:46:35.000 Why is it on men to watch the WNBA?

00:46:37.000 Take care of your own.

00:46:38.000 You want to pay women more for the for the soccer? 1.00

00:46:40.000 Go ahead and do it.

00:46:42.000 You want to go attend WNBA games? 0.99

00:46:44.000 Why is it that there are seven people in the stands?

00:46:46.000 Including if Matt Walsh loses, the fantasy football league is expected.

00:46:50.000 Matt Walsh.

00:46:52.000 Why is it a punchline?

00:46:54.000 Maybe it's because of you guys.

00:46:56.000 If I'm going to rip into the media like Stephen A. Smith, I may as well praise Don Lemon when he happens to be correct.

00:47:01.000 Alrighty guys, the rest of the show is continuing right now.

00:47:03.000 You're not going to want to miss it.

00:47:04.000 We'll be getting to California considering slavery reparations could cost hundreds of billions of dollars plus.

00:47:10.000 We'll be joined by Dallas Jenkins, creator of The Chosen.

The Ben Shapiro Show - December 02, 2022

The Madness of Ye | Ep. 1622

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