The Ben Shapiro Show - October 09, 2026


The Vance-vs-Microsoft H1-B Fight, Explained

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16 minutes

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Transcript

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00:00:00.000 So, yesterday, the vice president said that Microsoft violated immigration employment law.
00:00:05.000 So, here's what the vice president had to say.
00:00:07.000 Thanks to an ongoing investigation, we have decided to suspend the PERM program for Microsoft, which means they will no longer be able to apply their, they'll no longer be able to take those H 1Bs and apply for permanent resident status within the United States of America.
00:00:24.000 Now, our message to Microsoft and to any other foreign or domestic corporation is quite simple.
00:00:29.000 We obviously want you to thrive in the United States of America, we want people to invest.
00:00:35.000 So they suspended Microsoft from a program that allows H 1B visa holders to apply for green cards.
00:00:49.000 So H 1B visa holders are people who come to the United States on a work visa.
00:01:01.000 And then the company can apply.
00:01:03.000 On behalf of the H 1B visa holders for a so called program electronic review management green card.
00:01:10.000 That's PERM.
00:01:11.000 The action by Vance's anti fraud task force, he's claiming essentially these companies engaged in fraud, is targeting Microsoft, Adobe, and several tech recruiting companies over what officials have alleged are widespread abuses of the visa system.
00:01:24.000 Vance said that no other company has abused the system more than Microsoft.
00:01:27.000 They accused Microsoft of laying off U.S. citizens only to replace them with foreign workers brought into the country on H 1B visas.
00:01:33.000 Okay, so number one, that is not a violation of the law.
00:01:36.000 That's not a violation of the law.
00:01:38.000 If Microsoft brings someone on an H1B visa from India to work at their company, you may think they shouldn't do it.
00:01:46.000 It is not illegal to do that.
00:01:47.000 And so, suspending them from a program for doing that would be illegal, and Microsoft is going to sue.
00:01:53.000 A Microsoft spokeswoman said the company plans to send the administration more information on what they are doing.
00:01:57.000 She said the vast majority of their employees in the United States are American citizens, and that of the approximately 6,000 H1B visa applications it submitted in the last fiscal year, 80% were for people who are existing Microsoft employees.
00:02:09.000 In other words, these are people who are just getting renewed for their H 1B visas.
00:02:12.000 Rather than getting them a green card, you just get their H 1B renewed.
00:02:16.000 Companies can employ somebody on an H 1B for a maximum of six years, and then they have to sponsor them for a green card to keep them.
00:02:22.000 That's the PERM program.
00:02:24.000 Now, when they apply for the green card under the PERM program, a company must perform a so called labor market test to ensure that no Americans are qualified to fill that job.
00:02:35.000 Now, the Trump administration is alleging that the companies Basically fix the process.
00:02:39.000 They rig it by advertising jobs for green card holders very narrowly.
00:02:42.000 So they, they kind of game the system and they, they essentially put out a, a notice saying you need this extremely specific set of skills and no American can fill it.
00:02:50.000 Okay.
00:02:51.000 Now we can apply for perm.
00:02:52.000 And if they provide evidence of that, that in fact is a violation of the law, but the vice president did not provide any evidence of that.
00:02:58.000 He basically said that because Microsoft hires people on H1Bs and then fires people who are not on H1Bs, this amounts to some form of immigration fraud.
00:03:08.000 That is not true.
00:03:10.000 Again, the vice president is not.
00:03:11.000 Presenting any actual evidence of perm abuse here.
00:03:13.000 Maybe he will, but he didn't hear.
00:03:15.000 And so he's conflating two programs the H 1B visa program and green card applications for people for whom there is no American replacement.
00:03:21.000 That's the perm program.
00:03:24.000 So again, we should be clear on a couple of things.
00:03:26.000 There are lots of arguments to restrict immigration, including legal immigration to the United States.
00:03:32.000 A bad argument is that H 1Bs hurt the economy.
00:03:35.000 That is a bad argument, it is an unfactual argument.
00:03:38.000 Restricting H 1Bs raise, by necessity, the cost of hiring in America.
00:03:42.000 That's how it works.
00:03:44.000 If you restrict your labor base, you're increasing the price.
00:03:47.000 If you increase the price, it increases the price of goods and services at the other end as well.
00:03:52.000 You end up with inflation.
00:03:54.000 And by the way, typically speaking, if you artificially boost the price of wages, what happens?
00:03:59.000 Typically, no hiring or offshoring.
00:04:02.000 You cut jobs or you offshore.
00:04:05.000 And that means that tax revenue and local consumption that the worker would have put into America is now gone.
00:04:10.000 It's not theoretical, by the way.
00:04:12.000 In its own form, this is what happens in the American auto industry in the 50s.
00:04:14.000 So in the 50s, the rest of the world was basically in ruins and shambles because of World War II.
00:04:19.000 The United States was still robustly industrialized.
00:04:22.000 And we unionized all of our auto companies up the wazoo and we artificially increased the price of labor.
00:04:27.000 What did that mean?
00:04:28.000 Well, it meant the price on goods and services like cars went up.
00:04:32.000 And then eventually it meant the only way to keep prices competitive was to make crappier cars.
00:04:36.000 And then eventually Tokyo just ate our lunch.
00:04:38.000 The Japanese just ate our lunch in the sixties.
00:04:42.000 The general economic rule is that if you restrict the labor supply, major companies will end up offshoring.
00:04:47.000 There is zero evidence that I'm aware of that H1B restrictions increase American employment and wages after you account for the offshoring of the jobs.
00:04:56.000 Preborn.
00:04:57.000 Okay.
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00:05:22.000 That's preborn.com slash Ben.
00:05:24.000 Well, they take the money they're giving them and they help subsidize women to actually get ultrasound.
00:05:24.000 So what do they do?
00:05:29.000 So they walk into a preborn clinic.
00:05:31.000 And instead of just being recommended an abortion and being told nonsense about how there's no problem at all, there's no issue for you to think about, instead, they're shown an ultrasound of the baby.
00:05:39.000 And guess what?
00:05:40.000 It changes hearts and it changes minds.
00:05:42.000 Ultrasounds are medical magic.
00:05:43.000 They're unbelievable.
00:05:44.000 I've met every one of my five kids well before they are born.
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00:05:59.000 Now, the head of the Federal Trade Commission, Andrew Ferguson, who was there during this announcement, He said that America is not a jobs program for the rest of the world.
00:06:06.000 And of course, that's true.
00:06:08.000 America is not a jobs program for the rest of the world.
00:06:12.000 We didn't build our institutions for the rest of the world.
00:06:15.000 We built them for Americans.
00:06:16.000 Our rule of law, our system of sane and sound regulation, our capital markets, our justice system, everything that makes the American economy thrive, we did not build for the planet.
00:06:27.000 We built it for us.
00:06:28.000 We built it for Americans first.
00:06:30.000 The fraud described today denies Americans that institution.
00:06:35.000 And that is what the fraud that the task force has spent.
00:06:37.000 The last nine months uncovering has consistently done it denies Americans of their own patrimony.
00:06:44.000 Okay, so again, this idea that there is quote unquote an American job waiting for you is a category error.
00:06:50.000 There are jobs in America, and if you can fill that job, and that job is waiting for you.
00:06:55.000 But if somebody else can fill that job, that job is waiting for them.
00:06:57.000 The job is still in America.
00:06:58.000 That is an American job.
00:07:00.000 It's just being filled by somebody who's coming from another country.
00:07:03.000 Now, again, you can make a lot of arguments about whether we should allow people from certain countries to come in.
00:07:08.000 But the economic argument here is incredibly weak.
00:07:10.000 And it is very, very difficult to make the argument that you wish to bring prices down while artificially restricting the labor supply.
00:07:18.000 That's just a reality.
00:07:19.000 By the way, you know what creates jobs actually outside America?
00:07:22.000 Artificially boosting the wage rate in the United States.
00:07:24.000 You do that, and guess what happens?
00:07:25.000 Just created a crap load of jobs in India.
00:07:27.000 So I was at the University of Texas at Austin a couple of days ago, and there were a lot of students there at TPUSA who looked like this.
00:07:35.000 Now, again, you remember this photo because Beau French, she's a candidate in Texas.
00:07:39.000 Suggested that this was sort of the end of the world.
00:07:42.000 Okay, well, a lot of the people who came to this TPUSA event look just like that.
00:07:45.000 And you know what?
00:07:46.000 That's brilliant.
00:07:47.000 That's fine.
00:07:48.000 That's wonderful because all these people are conservatives.
00:07:51.000 They're coming to a TP USA land.
00:07:53.000 So I've got a bunch of Indian American students, many second or maybe even third generation, presumably conservative oriented, getting an education, getting jobs, and assimilating.
00:08:02.000 What would be the gigantic problem here?
00:08:05.000 So I was asked about this in a bit of a different form yesterday.
00:08:08.000 My question was regarding immigration.
00:08:11.000 And I come from a small town in Texas where there are a lot of illegal immigrants from Mexico.
00:08:18.000 And they largely fill, honestly, all of the jobs that.
00:08:23.000 Americans don't want to.
00:08:24.000 My dad's a rancher, and there's a lot of dirty, hot, messy jobs that he really only has success by hiring illegal immigrants that he would love to find somebody in town, but he just can't do it.
00:08:37.000 So, I guess my question is what is your answer to the labor shortage?
00:08:41.000 And if the illegal immigrants weren't here and there's not people that are willing to do these low wages?
00:08:46.000 This is actually a phenomenal question.
00:08:48.000 Okay, and then I basically gave that same explanation that I've been talking about right here.
00:08:53.000 And the reality is that the laws of economics remain undefeated.
00:08:57.000 What happens when we stop brain training the world?
00:08:57.000 There's another problem here.
00:08:59.000 So the vice president was asked if you basically stop people from coming in to get jobs, how do you decide who gets in?
00:09:07.000 How do you make it so that Elon Musk gets in?
00:09:10.000 Now, it's one thing if you want to bring in a person like Elon Musk.
00:09:13.000 I think 99% of American citizens look at somebody like Elon Musk or Lisa Su, the CEO of AMD, and they say, obviously, if that person wants to come in and build something great in the United States of America, we support that.
00:09:26.000 But If you're bringing in an accountant who's making $40,000 a year and you use that foreign indentured servant making $40,000 a year to replace an American worker who is making $70,000 a year, you're not bringing in a genius to build a great American corporation.
00:09:42.000 You're committing fraud against the American people and against this visa program.
00:09:47.000 It has to stop.
00:09:48.000 And thanks to the work of this task force and, again, the empowerment of the president of the United States, we are doing something to stop it.
00:09:54.000 So he says, if you're just coming in here to get paid $40,000 as an accountant, we don't want you here, but we definitely want Lisa Sue here.
00:10:00.000 Lisa Sue.
00:10:02.000 Immigrated to the United States as a child.
00:10:05.000 Lisa Su came from Taiwan.
00:10:08.000 I'm going to give you three guesses what her parents did.
00:10:11.000 Her father was a statistician for the city government, and her mother was an accountant.
00:10:17.000 So it turns out that unless you have a magical wand and the ability to identify Lisa Su at age four, and you ban her parents, the accountants from coming into the country, you just don't get Lisa Su's.
00:10:29.000 And the same thing is true of Yuan and Sergey and Jensen and Saigonadella and all of them.
00:10:34.000 The same thing is true of all these things.
00:10:37.000 Pretending away the problem doesn't make the problem go away.
00:10:40.000 So the vice president is now blaming socialists for H 1B visas.
00:10:44.000 Back in 2016, one of the most interesting things that happened is when Bernie Sanders, then of course the leading socialist in the United States of America, was asked about open borders, he gave an answer that sounded similar to Stephen Miller's, where he said, Of course, we're not going to have open borders because that's going to displace American workers.
00:11:03.000 It is ironic that so many of the self described socialists running across this country, they love the idea.
00:11:09.000 Of replacing American workers with foreign workers, which suggests to me it's really not about the working class, it's about their hatred of native born citizens.
00:11:16.000 Okay, well, actually, a lot of the socialists are in favor of open immigration, not because they want them replacing American workers, but because they want them on American welfare and because they wish for them to vote for Democrats.
00:11:25.000 That is the real reason.
00:11:27.000 As it turns out, actually, a bunch of socialists in, say, Scandinavia are very much interested in immigration restrictionism because they realize free donuts plus open door equals bankruptcy.
00:11:36.000 So the vice president is in favor of massive government interventionism, up to and including taking stakes in private American companies.
00:11:43.000 He has praised the economic plans of everyone from Elizabeth Warren to Lena Kahn.
00:11:47.000 He was asked an awkward question yesterday about how he defines socialism since he is very much a government interventionist in the economy.
00:11:52.000 And here was his answer.
00:11:54.000 How do you define socialism personally, and why do you think socialist candidates are popping up everywhere across the country?
00:12:00.000 Oh, man.
00:12:01.000 You know, I guess it's honestly a hard term to define these days because very often socialism, you know, classically, you would think socialism is about prioritizing workers.
00:12:17.000 And yet, in reality, I guarantee that most of the self-described socialists running across the United States of America are going to howl about this announcement today, which is prioritizing American workers over foreign workers.
00:12:28.000 So I don't know what the term means anymore.
00:12:31.000 I think in reality, what it actually means in the American context is that you want to replace American workers with foreign workers and you want boys to play in girls' sports.
00:12:39.000 That's what unites the socialists that I see running across the United States of America today.
00:12:45.000 It is a stupid belief that men are women, but it is not a particularly socialist belief that men are women.
00:12:50.000 Socialism.
00:12:51.000 Definitionally, is an economic and political system in which the means of production, distribution, and major resources are owned or controlled by the public and the workers collectively rather than by private individuals.
00:13:03.000 That's what socialism means.
00:13:05.000 There are programs that are socialistic in nature because the government nationalizes them or gets involved, grants a monopoly.
00:13:13.000 Heavy regulation of industry can be effectively socialistic because we don't have control over the dispensation of your property or control of your property because of regulation, the government effectively runs it.
00:13:22.000 And here's the thing that's not going to win elections.
00:13:24.000 It just isn't.
00:13:25.000 You can't outbid Democrats when it comes to this stuff.
00:13:27.000 You cannot outcompete socialists with socialism white.
00:13:30.000 You can't just shout American jobs and American workers while the prices keep going up and the wages aren't keeping up and then hope that those slogans are going to make up for the negative outcomes that are outgrowths of policies that you pursue.
00:13:41.000 Now, again, this doesn't mean that JD Vance is wrong on everything.
00:13:43.000 The vice president made another announcement yesterday where he was right.
00:13:46.000 So here he was going after universities for J1 visa fraud.
00:13:50.000 I want to make one final announcement here because while we see a lot of H 1B visa fraud, we also see a lot of J1 visa fraud.
00:13:57.000 And this is where some of America's most elite universities bring in foreigners, again, to undercut the wages of American residents.
00:14:04.000 Now, there are nine universities in particular that we believe merit an investigation.
00:14:10.000 Those universities are Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Brown, the University of Pittsburgh, UC Davis, Caltech, Arizona State, and MIT.
00:14:18.000 And what we see is that when you employ an American worker as a graduate student, as a researcher, they're making about $20,000 more than someone brought in under a J-1 visa.
00:14:29.000 And importantly, these universities. are employing J1 visas for federally funded grants at a rate of about 61%.
00:14:36.000 The national average is 38%.
00:14:38.000 So something weird is going on at these universities.
00:14:40.000 They're using these visas way too much.
00:14:43.000 They're using them to undercut the wages of American grad students and American researchers.
00:14:47.000 And it simply has to stop.
00:14:49.000 Now, he is right about this.
00:14:50.000 Unlike F1 student visas.
00:14:52.000 So F1 student visas is where a student from abroad wants to come to Harvard or something.
00:14:56.000 And very often F1s turn into a pathway to employment or whatever.
00:14:59.000 J1s are typically paid for by government funding or institutional funding.
00:15:03.000 And J1s, unlike F1s, have a two-year return home requirement.
00:15:06.000 So after you finish your education, you have to go home for at least two years, which means that the brain drain that I want, which is to take the smart people from other countries and make them American, that is a thing that doesn't really happen very often under J1s.
00:15:18.000 It's one thing, by the way, to do that with our European allies, but a huge percentage of J1s come from, wait for it, China, like 25 to 35% of J1 visas at top institutions go to Chinese students.
00:15:30.000 Why do universities do it?
00:15:31.000 Well, because they get paid full freight.
00:15:33.000 They get paid more, right?
00:15:34.000 Is it a scholarship?
00:15:35.000 And meanwhile, these people come here and they steal our IP and then they go home.
00:15:39.000 All this started as a way to build ties, supposedly, between various countries.
00:15:42.000 I don't feel like we need to give our IP and access to our best intellectual institutions to our enemies to build credibility or trust.
00:15:50.000 So the vice president is certainly right about that one.
00:15:53.000 What an amazing video you just watched.
00:15:55.000 Wasn't that amazing?
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