The Charlie Kirk Show - The BEST Pro-Life Arguments Around with Seth Gruber

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, my conversation with Seth Gruber about SLED.

00:00:04.000 What does that mean?

00:00:04.000 Well, you'll know by the end of this episode, it is a pro-life episode for those of you that are looking for how to articulate your pro-life beliefs.

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00:01:23.000 Here we go.

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00:01:57.000 Hey, everybody, welcome to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:02:00.000 In person, the man, the myth, the legend, Seth Gruber, who is the most talented, charismatic, and I will say, wise pro-life male voice.

00:02:12.000 I think just pro-life voice in general is amazing.

00:02:15.000 Seth, welcome.

00:02:15.000 Thank you, Charlie.

00:02:16.000 You have helped me so much to clarify my pro-life views.

00:02:20.000 Not that I have different beliefs, but to better articulate them.

00:02:24.000 And so you do this for a living.

00:02:27.000 I do.

00:02:28.000 I was raised in the pro-life movement, actually.

00:02:30.000 So my mother was actually the director of a pregnancy resource center in Azusa, California in the late 1980s.

00:02:39.000 So back then, there weren't very many pregnancy resource centers.

00:02:42.000 I say this to, I have to interrupt you.

00:02:44.000 You know that a lot of our listeners don't know what a pregnancy resource center is.

00:02:47.000 That's right.

00:02:47.000 So what is a pregnancy resource center?

00:02:49.000 So the pregnancy resource center is the pro-life alternative to an abortion clinic.

00:02:53.000 They provide all of their resources for free.

00:02:55.000 And most of them, Charlie, provide all of the same non-controversial medical resources that an abortion center does, minus the baby butchering part.

00:03:06.000 And they're entirely privately funded.

00:03:08.000 I think a couple centers recently have gotten a little bit of state support, but usually it's all private donations.

00:03:13.000 I keynote their banquets all around the country.

00:03:15.000 And we outnumber abortion clinics, Charlie, about two or three to one.

00:03:20.000 But most people don't know what they are.

00:03:21.000 Most people don't.

00:03:22.000 And, you know, I think the pregnancy resource centers, I've spoken at some great ones.

00:03:27.000 I spoke at a phenomenal one in San Antonio.

00:03:29.000 One, you were at the one in California I spoke at.

00:03:31.000 But a lot of them, and I won't say where, not those two, they got to get their act together.

00:03:31.000 Yeah.

00:03:36.000 And they think, oh, everyone knows who we are.

00:03:38.000 It's like, no, most young people have never heard of a pregnancy resource center.

00:03:40.000 Yeah, I talk to pastors who've never heard of it.

00:03:42.000 Yeah, pastor.

00:03:42.000 And it's just hard for them to kind of comprehend and believe that.

00:03:46.000 So there is this kind of raging debate around abortion in our country.

00:03:51.000 It shouldn't be much of a debate.

00:03:54.000 And let's just kind of start at the basics, which is for a listener right now who might be agnostic on it without knowledge or just kind of, people can make whatever decision is they see fit.

00:04:07.000 What's wrong with that perspective?

00:04:09.000 Why should a listener of the Charlie Kirk show care about life?

00:04:12.000 Amen.

00:04:12.000 Yeah.

00:04:13.000 I gave a talk to a Republican women's group recently in Simi Valley about why conservatives actually have to be pro-life if you want to call yourself a conservative.

00:04:21.000 You know, and our founder said, we hold these truths to be self-evident, right?

00:04:25.000 The translation for that for Gen Zers is duh. 0.99

00:04:28.000 You know, we hold these truths to be duh.

00:04:30.000 This is obvious.

00:04:31.000 It's axiomatic that we're endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights.

00:04:34.000 And of course, they put the right to life first.

00:04:36.000 And Reagan talked about this at length in his book, Abortion and the Conscience of a Nation.

00:04:41.000 Reagan, former governor of California, used to be pro-choice and actually had some blood on his hands because of pro-choice.

00:04:47.000 Signed some bad bills, didn't he?

00:04:48.000 Yeah, he did.

00:04:49.000 And Dr. Mildred Jefferson, the first black woman to graduate from Harvard Medical School, who started the National Right to Life Committee, once gave a defense of the pro-life position so persuasively on TV, Reagan watched it, wrote her a letter, and said that he had become pro-life because of her presentation.

00:05:04.000 And he wrote his book, Abortion and the Conscience of a Nation.

00:05:07.000 And he makes this point, I think, to your question about why life is the most fundamental right and why we as conservatives need to get that right right.

00:05:15.000 He says that Abraham Lincoln recognized that we could not survive as a free country as long as some men could decide that others are not fit to be free and should therefore be slaves.

00:05:27.000 Likewise, we cannot survive as a free land today as long as some men can decide that others are not fit to live and should therefore be abandoned to abortion and infanticide.

00:05:38.000 So there is no cause more important than affirming than the transcendent right to life of all human beings, the right without which no other rights have any meaning.

00:05:47.000 Well, the other side will say, Seth, look, the fetus is the size of a pebble.

00:05:53.000 You can't possibly say that's the same thing as a six foot three person.

00:05:58.000 Right, it's ageism, right?

00:05:59.000 So that's what they say.

00:06:01.000 We hate racism.

00:06:02.000 We hate sexism in this country, but apparently ageism is not just acceptable, but it's been normalized.

00:06:08.000 The child is not the same size as us simply in virtue of their development.

00:06:12.000 So let's look at, excuse me.

00:06:15.000 Yeah, I got some.

00:06:16.000 No, you're good.

00:06:17.000 Let's look at what the science of embryology says.

00:06:21.000 The type of science, by the way, that you're not going to hear from UC Berkeley or from Fauci, the high priest of progressivism.

00:06:28.000 The science of embryology has been basically uncontested for decades.

00:06:33.000 And yet you don't hear this anywhere in the mainstream media or in universities.

00:06:36.000 From the moment of conception, there's a distinct living and whole human being.

00:06:42.000 Distinct because it's obviously not your DNA, not your choice, as you like to say.

00:06:46.000 The body in her body is not her body.

00:06:48.000 And we know that because the baby could be a different gender than the mother.

00:06:50.000 Obviously, pregnant women don't have male genitalia, so the baby's distinct.

00:06:54.000 The baby's living because dead things don't grow.

00:06:57.000 The unborn child meets all the requirements for a living thing. 0.99

00:07:00.000 And the unborn child is directing her own internal growth from within.

00:07:04.000 So, right, I have two kids.

00:07:05.000 Charlie, my wife never woke me up in the middle of the night shaking me saying, babe, come here, come whisper to my uterus. 1.00

00:07:11.000 Come remind baby to grow.

00:07:13.000 Because unborn children actually, they develop themselves from within, independent of the wishes of their parents. 1.00

00:07:18.000 And the child is whole.

00:07:19.000 A whole human being is simply a human being who already has everything they need to realize their full growth and development as a participating member of the human species.

00:07:30.000 And this is where our opponents, Charlie, get very confused when they say, well, I mean, maybe it's like biologically human.

00:07:36.000 Like it has like human DNA.

00:07:38.000 It's like cellularly human, but it's not like a full human.

00:07:41.000 Oh, you mean like Untermensch?

00:07:43.000 You mean what the Nazis called subhuman?

00:07:44.000 Oh, right.

00:07:45.000 Not full human, just kind of subhuman.

00:07:47.000 Same type of bigotry with abortion.

00:07:49.000 But they say it might be biologically human, but it's not a human like you and I.

00:07:53.000 So, this last concept is the most important for us to articulate to the next generation and to the pro-choice moderates and pro-choice activists in our country.

00:08:01.000 A whole human being is similar to a Polaroid photo.

00:08:04.000 So, when you take a picture and this photo gets spit out and you start shaking it, waiting for it to develop.

00:08:10.000 Now, let's say you captured a picture of a phenomenal sunset, Charlie.

00:08:13.000 And right as that photo gets spit out, I rip it out of your hands, I tear it up into little pieces, and I throw it to the side of the road.

00:08:20.000 Now, you might be frustrated with me, but what if I said, Charlie, calm down, chill out?

00:08:24.000 It was not a picture of a sunset, it was just a black smudgy on a white piece of paper.

00:08:30.000 You'd probably say, Seth, what are you talking about?

00:08:32.000 The sunset was already there, we just couldn't see it yet.

00:08:36.000 Everything that was necessary for the photo to realize its full development was already present when the photo got spit out.

00:08:44.000 It just needed time.

00:08:45.000 The same thing is true with our development.

00:08:47.000 And in virtue of being human, the unborn child already has everything he or she needs to realize all of the different cognitive abilities, functions, and accidental properties that will come along with the level of development, but they have an underlying nature to realize those capacities.

00:09:02.000 Similarly, my wife recently found out that men don't reach their mental peak until they're 40s.

00:09:07.000 And our wives are probably very encouraged by that, right?

00:09:09.000 They're really holding out hope for us.

00:09:12.000 But that doesn't mean we're not whole human beings now.

00:09:14.000 So, we all find ourselves on a different tick mark on the continuum of human development.

00:09:19.000 But when did the continuum of human development begin?

00:09:21.000 Well, follow the science back to the moment of conception.

00:09:24.000 So, that's what the science of embryology teaches.

00:09:27.000 So, our value doesn't come from our size or our appearance and how we look like other born people.

00:09:34.000 It comes just in virtue of our humanity.

00:09:36.000 So, that tiny baby at three, four, five, six weeks old actually looks exactly how a human is supposed to look like at that stage of development.

00:09:45.000 And so, that would be the size argument, right?

00:09:48.000 So, you talk about sled a lot, and let's go through it for our listeners.

00:09:52.000 What about level of development?

00:09:54.000 Right.

00:09:54.000 I mean, come on, we're sophisticated people, Seth.

00:09:57.000 You're trying to tell me that we have to get rid of birth control and all this.

00:10:01.000 These are wonderful technological advancements, we're told, and it makes life easier.

00:10:06.000 Why should we inconvenience people if come on?

00:10:10.000 It's just a smidge.

00:10:11.000 Just get rid of the smidge.

00:10:12.000 There's a lot there, right?

00:10:12.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:10:14.000 But that's the problem of living in a culture of death that has abandoned the moorings of a Judeo-Christian worldview is now we're lost at sea.

00:10:22.000 And so, what you said is very common to what we'd hear someone saying, of course.

00:10:26.000 But by the way, I don't believe any of this stuff.

00:10:26.000 I hear it all the time.

00:10:29.000 Of course, we both, yeah, but the point is everything you say there is packing pounds and pounds of worldview assumptions.

00:10:39.000 Yes.

00:10:40.000 The window's been moved so much.

00:10:41.000 And Reagan once said that the most dangerous ideas in a society are not the ones being argued for, or I'm sorry, C.S. Lewis, are not the ones being argued for.

00:10:41.000 That's right.

00:10:49.000 They're the ones being assumed.

00:10:50.000 Yes.

00:10:51.000 Because assumed premises, especially when undetected, can destroy a nation.

00:10:58.000 You see, people tend to work out the logic of their position through their choices.

00:11:02.000 And those choices reveal their deeply held worldview assumptions.

00:11:07.000 But, Charlie, how many people know why they believe what they can believe and can articulate a political and worldview vision that motivates and animates their beliefs?

00:11:14.000 Very few, but they're still operating off of those deeply held assumptions.

00:11:17.000 And so, when for the listeners of your show, whenever we're talking about these pro-abortion arguments, people will just drop these lines that pack thousands of pounds of worldview assumptions, but they have no idea what they're operating off of.

00:11:30.000 And so, the job as an ambassador for the unborn, an ambassador for Christ, a watchman like Ezekiel is in scripture, is to be able to understand that and articulate that.

00:11:39.000 Okay, so, you know, well, I guess it's a human, Charlie, but I mean, come on, it's it's not very developed.

00:11:44.000 And so, because it's not very developed, it's a penny.

00:11:46.000 Come on.

00:11:47.000 Because it's not very developed, Charlie.

00:11:48.000 Don't you know they're not self-aware?

00:11:50.000 They're not viable.

00:11:51.000 They can't feel pain.

00:11:52.000 They don't have any desires.

00:11:53.000 These are some of the arguments we hear.

00:11:55.000 Those all fall within that level of development argument.

00:11:57.000 So let's see.

00:11:58.000 Let me do this in about 90 seconds.

00:12:00.000 Okay.

00:12:00.000 You could take as long as you want.

00:12:02.000 It's not viable, Charlie.

00:12:03.000 What does that mean?

00:12:04.000 Able to survive outside the womb. 0.88

00:12:06.000 Okay.

00:12:07.000 Well, that's kind of strange because if you're only pro-choice up until the point when the baby can survive outside the womb, then medical advancements every few decades enable us to make the child viable at earlier and earlier stages.

00:12:18.000 So are you saying that one's intrinsic dignity and natural right to life is dependent on the external advancements of scientists and the ideas that they come up with to make children viable at earlier and earlier stages?

00:12:29.000 That's a very strange political vision of natural rights.

00:12:32.000 But of course, that doesn't make any sense because our babies fully viable.

00:12:35.000 No, if you leave an infant in a crib, they die.

00:12:38.000 You know, and what if mom tells the judge in a court of law, Charlie?

00:12:41.000 Well, you know, Judge, my lesbian dance theory professor at UC Berkeley, she told me I have bodily autonomy. 0.72

00:12:48.000 She told me I have bodily autonomy, my body, my choice.

00:12:51.000 My breasts are part of my body, so I didn't nurse my infant because I have bodily autonomy.

00:12:57.000 What judge would accept that form of argument?

00:12:59.000 A baby has to fend for itself.

00:13:00.000 Very few.

00:13:01.000 A six-week old once born has to fend for itself.

00:13:04.000 Yep.

00:13:04.000 That's right.

00:13:05.000 So obviously the viability one doesn't work.

00:13:07.000 And if, and if you really want to go that route, that you only have rights if you're not dependent on someone or something else, then everyone dependent on insulin, heart pace makers, kidney machines, life support, caretakers would all be non-personal.

00:13:19.000 50 million people.

00:13:20.000 And you know what's funny, Charlie?

00:13:22.000 The left says that, right?

00:13:23.000 Mother Earth.

00:13:24.000 Mother Earth.

00:13:25.000 What are they saying?

00:13:25.000 We're all dependent on this Mother Earth goddess without which we cannot continue to live.

00:13:29.000 Oh, you mean like the baby can't continue to live apart from their dependency on their mother?

00:13:33.000 So I guess all of us are non-persons because we're dependent on the earth. 0.98

00:13:35.000 Ridiculous. 0.79

00:13:36.000 So viability doesn't work. 0.80

00:13:36.000 Okay. 0.80

00:13:38.000 Well, they're not developed enough, so they don't have desires.

00:13:40.000 Then this is a more fine-tuning philosophical argument, Charlie.

00:13:43.000 If you don't have defined will, then you're not.

00:13:45.000 Or that you don't have a claim to X unless you have a desire for X and can understand that you've been denied X.

00:13:45.000 Exactly.

00:13:45.000 Yeah.

00:13:54.000 And so unless you're aware of your right to something and can articulate it or have a desire for it, I guess you don't meet that limit.

00:14:00.000 This is Enlightenment thinking gone wrong.

00:14:02.000 Oh, totally.

00:14:03.000 Yeah, this goes right back to the Enlightenment period.

00:14:04.000 Yeah.

00:14:05.000 And right back to the beginnings of what became postmodernism, relativism.

00:14:10.000 It all started with Machiavelli.

00:14:11.000 You're exactly right. 0.94

00:14:12.000 And relativism is just the bastard child of postmodernism. 0.96

00:14:14.000 That's correct. 0.83

00:14:14.000 And that's continued to be a very important thing. 0.83

00:14:15.000 So say why that's wrong.

00:14:17.000 So, okay, so listen, Charlie, here, okay.

00:14:20.000 I'm Peter Singer.

00:14:20.000 I'm at Princeton University.

00:14:22.000 I'm David Boone and you're talking about pro-abortion philosophers who make hundreds of thousands of dollars defending their bigotry that not all humans are persons.

00:14:22.000 Okay.

00:14:30.000 And so listen, I don't violate your rights, Charlie, unless I violate your desires.

00:14:35.000 So if you don't have a desire for something, if I take away that thing, I haven't violated your rights because you never desired it.

00:14:42.000 So the baby in the womb, oops, I said baby, sorry.

00:14:44.000 The untermensch non-person blob of tissue, which is a Nietzschean phrase.

00:14:48.000 They don't have a desire for a right to life.

00:14:50.000 They don't desire to go on living.

00:14:52.000 So in killing them, you actually haven't violated their rights.

00:14:54.000 Okay, what's wrong with that?

00:14:56.000 People with suicidal tendencies do not have a desire to go on living.

00:15:01.000 By the way, suicidality is out the freaking window right now, thanks to Democrat policies who shut down the country and made young people stay at home.

00:15:08.000 So, and young people, more people are dead from suicide in California than from COVID. 0.62

00:15:13.000 Of course, that's the part of the fault of the Democrat Party.

00:15:15.000 So I guess all those people were non-persons, right, Charlie?

00:15:17.000 Because they didn't have a desire to go on living.

00:15:19.000 What about Buddhists? 0.89

00:15:20.000 Buddhists try to reach something called nirvana. 1.00

00:15:24.000 Nirvana is eradicating all desires.

00:15:27.000 Now, I'm not convinced that's possible, but let's say it is, Charlie.

00:15:30.000 The Buddhist nirvana would not have a desire for anything, including the desire to go on living. 0.75

00:15:36.000 So hey, pro-choicer, can we genocide Buddhist nirvanas? 0.97

00:15:38.000 Because, you know, they, like the pre-born, don't have a desire to go on living. 1.00

00:15:42.000 I guess it's wrong that you don't have a right to something unless you have desires for that thing.

00:15:47.000 Then they say, well, the baby can't feel pain.

00:15:49.000 So what's it matter to them? 0.99

00:15:50.000 Okay, if I anesthesize you, can I murder you? 0.95

00:15:53.000 What about people with the condition congenital insensitivity to pain? 0.94

00:15:56.000 It's also called congenital analgesia, a condition in which you cannot feel any pain. 0.99

00:16:01.000 Can we kill those people, pro-choice? 0.97

00:16:03.000 Or, oh, I don't really like it when you apply my bigotry this side of the womb. 1.00

00:16:07.000 Right, because it has consequences.

00:16:09.000 Because as Lincoln pointed out, we're putting in place the premises that justify our own enslavement.

00:16:14.000 So those are some of the arguments they make to say the pre-born is not a person.

00:16:18.000 They're not developed enough to have realized these capacities. 1.00

00:16:21.000 Therefore, we can kill them. 0.99

00:16:22.000 Last one, I think, is self-awareness. 1.00

00:16:23.000 The baby doesn't know that they exist.

00:16:25.000 They're not aware of themselves as a unique autonomous individual.

00:16:29.000 So what difference is it to them?

00:16:30.000 Well, infants are not self-aware either.

00:16:32.000 If you dress up your cute little two-month-old and you stand in the mirror, your two-month-old is not going to say, oh, hi, I'm baby Jack.

00:16:38.000 I look very cute.

00:16:39.000 Thanks for the cute outfit, mom. 0.98

00:16:40.000 Infants are not fully self-aware.

00:16:42.000 So with that same litmus test, we could murder infants as well who don't meet the left's botched litmus test for personhood.

00:16:49.000 But here's the main point I want to make.

00:16:51.000 This is actually the same worldview that we have been contending against for millennia, Charlie.

00:16:56.000 This is what conservatives actually need to understand.

00:16:58.000 And I want to make this point, if I make none other, which is that the pro-choice position is not a new ideology or worldview.

00:17:06.000 It's not a new political vision.

00:17:08.000 It's a very ancient and old one.

00:17:09.000 It goes all the way back to Genesis 3 when the serpent tells Eve, try that apple, eat it.

00:17:14.000 You'll get woke.

00:17:15.000 And then you'll truly see.

00:17:16.000 You'll see an alternative way to flourish.

00:17:18.000 And then your eyes shall be open and ye shall be as gods, right?

00:17:21.000 Because a God gets to decide who lives and who dies and a god gets to live forever.

00:17:26.000 People have always been asserting power over others and coming up with certain litmus tests, grounding them in cognitive functions, abilities, accidental properties, and then wielding that litmus test for personhood against the class of human beings that they don't like and had a vested interest in dehumanizing and mistreating.

00:17:44.000 So the litmus test for personhood, Charlie, in 1940s Germany, they argued was appearance and religion.

00:17:50.000 The litmus test for personhood in 1850 slavery America was, they argued, skin color and intellect.

00:17:56.000 And the litmus test for personhood today that they wield against the pre-born is that the baby is smaller, less developed, in a different location, and more dependent.

00:18:06.000 We've simply swapped one form of bigotry for another.

00:18:10.000 And we're doing the same thing that Lincoln warned southern states we're doing, putting in place the premises that justify their own enslavement.

00:18:17.000 So Dr. Mildred Jefferson, who changed Reagan's mind, famously said, Today it is the unborn child.

00:18:24.000 Tomorrow it is likely to be the elderly and those who are incurably ill.

00:18:29.000 Who knows but that a little later it may be anyone who has political and moral views that do not fit into the distorted new order.

00:18:38.000 Well, that's where we are.

00:18:39.000 So let's talk environment.

00:18:41.000 But people say it's this is more of the women's sovereignty argument, right? 0.97

00:18:45.000 Right.

00:18:46.000 Which is, I'm a woman.

00:18:48.000 You don't get to tell me what to do.

00:18:49.000 I get to make all my own choices.

00:18:52.000 And how dare you come into my uterus, my body, and I'm the most important thing in the world. 0.91

00:18:59.000 Yeah.

00:19:00.000 My body, my choice.

00:19:01.000 So Democrats, Charlie, once said that blacks were the property of plantation owners whose land they lived on.

00:19:08.000 And now they say that babies are the property of their mothers whose bodies they live in.

00:19:13.000 But as Frank Beckwith, the philosopher says, where one is has no bearing on who one is.

00:19:20.000 Your value does not change based off of where you find yourself.

00:19:24.000 We'll have people watching this conversation from all around the world.

00:19:28.000 They're not less valuable because they're not in Arizona.

00:19:31.000 Our value does not come from our location.

00:19:31.000 Okay.

00:19:34.000 But thanks to American abortion law, Charlie, you can murder a baby through all nine months of pregnancy for any reason or no reason at all.

00:19:41.000 Why?

00:19:42.000 Because it's in that location, because it's in the mother's body.

00:19:47.000 So, what happens during the six-inch journey called birth?

00:19:50.000 Well, I guess the fetus fairy floats up and sprinkles magical personhood-conferring fairy dust on the child. 0.95

00:19:58.000 And when that last toe leaves the vaginal canal, oh my gosh, it's a person now, Charlie. 0.93

00:20:03.000 This is ridiculous, right?

00:20:04.000 But that is the conclusion of the premises of the pro-choice position because you and I don't usually meet pro-choicers who defend infanticide.

00:20:13.000 Now, Peter Singer does, and I guess every senator except Joe Manchin and the Democrat Party actually does because they vetoed the Born Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act that Ben Sasse sponsored right after Ralph Northam said if a baby was born alive, we'd make them comfortable, resuscitate them if that's what the mother wanted, and then we'd let them talk about what to do with the baby.

00:20:33.000 That's right.

00:20:34.000 And they vetoed an anti-infanticide bill dozens of times.

00:20:37.000 So they actually are for infanticide, but most Americans who identify as pro-choice are not.

00:20:42.000 So then the only conclusion you're left with saying is that the baby literally gets personhood and inalienable rights when the last toad leaves the birth canal.

00:20:49.000 So unfortunately, the womb, Charlie, has become the most dangerous place for a human being to find themselves in America in 2021 today.

00:20:57.000 You are more at risk of being murdered in the womb than you are residing or living in any dangerous city or crime-ridden slum. 0.99

00:21:04.000 And it's so tragic and perverted because it was the location that you were created to be protected and valued.

00:21:09.000 People don't understand the beauty of the womb.

00:21:12.000 Some people, Charlie, and mothers who are pregnant and get cancer will opt for treatment anyways.

00:21:21.000 And in most circumstances, the baby is completely unaffected by the chemo because that's how resilient the womb is to protect a child.

00:21:29.000 And we've made it the most dangerous location.

00:21:31.000 Then it's degree of dependency, right?

00:21:33.000 That's right.

00:21:33.000 So, but the baby, look, you touched on this earlier, but the baby requires other help.

00:21:39.000 Yeah.

00:21:40.000 I think this is, they focus on this one the most.

00:21:42.000 I think it's the weakest argument.

00:21:43.000 Oh, it really is.

00:21:43.000 Yeah.

00:21:45.000 The one that gets most young people motivated is the sovereignty.

00:21:48.000 I'm important.

00:21:49.000 You can't tell me what to do with my body.

00:21:51.000 Like, get out of here.

00:21:53.000 But talk about degree of dependency.

00:21:54.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:21:55.000 So their primary claim and assumption is that one doesn't have a right to life or personhood until one can survive on one's own.

00:22:05.000 But as we said earlier, that would disqualify the newborn as well.

00:22:08.000 It would also disqualify the 92-year-old.

00:22:10.000 Yeah, your grandpa on life support in the hospital.

00:22:14.000 But if I snuck into the hospital, pro-choicer, and I slit your grandpa's throat, something tells me that you would say that was wrong.

00:22:22.000 Or how about car crash victims that are 17 years old that have to be assisted with breathing for a couple of weeks as we reconstruct their bodies?

00:22:30.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:22:30.000 Ultimately, this vision just leads to eugenics, right?

00:22:34.000 Chesterton once said that if Darwinism was the doctrine of the survival of the fittest, then eugenics is the doctrine of the survival of the nastiest.

00:22:43.000 Who said that?

00:22:44.000 Chesterton.

00:22:45.000 That sounds like Chesterton.

00:22:46.000 And of course, that is the survival of the fittest, the conclusion of that, which is that, oh, those who require more support, we should just give up on them.

00:22:55.000 If you're not fit enough to survive on your own, you know, too bad for you.

00:22:58.000 So here, so this is the way I want to finish this conversation because this is important.

00:23:03.000 So when I speak at a lot of churches, you do too.

00:23:05.000 And I learn a lot when I speak at churches.

00:23:08.000 Churches are very, very pro-life.

00:23:09.000 Sometimes they don't talk about it, right?

00:23:11.000 Churches are not?

00:23:11.000 But you know what?

00:23:13.000 They are not necessarily pious.

00:23:16.000 So when I say we have to have a real conversation about telling our children not to have sex before marriage, golf collapse.

00:23:22.000 Parents don't even agree with that.

00:23:24.000 Isn't that kind of the root driving here?

00:23:26.000 Root driving cause? 0.92

00:23:27.000 Because married couples, they usually don't have abortions. 1.00

00:23:30.000 It does happen, but it's incredibly rare.

00:23:33.000 Yeah.

00:23:33.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:23:34.000 I heard you mention this with Abby Johnson and Candace the other day.

00:23:38.000 People don't like hearing it.

00:23:38.000 And it's well stated.

00:23:40.000 Is because this is just sort of the natural trickle-down effect of abandoning a Judeo-Christian worldview of an objective moral standard that makes sense of the moral law and our duties and responsibilities to our neighbors.

00:23:54.000 And so, you know, when conservatives talk about slippery slope arguments, right? 0.99

00:23:59.000 And the left goes, oh, come on, that's just stupid. 0.99

00:24:01.000 Well, we've been right on pretty much every slide. 1.00

00:24:03.000 Every slippery, slippery slope prediction.

00:24:06.000 I used to say it was a fallacy.

00:24:08.000 I think it's a predictor.

00:24:09.000 Yeah, no, it totally is.

00:24:10.000 That's right.

00:24:11.000 And because ideas have a certain sort of ideological consistency to them.

00:24:16.000 It goes back to my first point.

00:24:18.000 People tend to work out the logic of their position through their choices.

00:24:21.000 And so, you know, everyone's got to serve someone.

00:24:23.000 So if you're not serving Christ, if you're not serving some transcendent moral order that makes sense of your liberty and your virtues and the choices that you should and ought to make and those that you should not and ought not to make, then man is his own God and he gets to decide.

00:24:38.000 What is it, though, about the church and parents that are so excusing of children doing this?

00:24:44.000 Yeah.

00:24:45.000 A lot of, I haven't thought deeply about this.

00:24:47.000 Like, this is a new thing because it's so obvious, right?

00:24:47.000 I really haven't.

00:24:50.000 I was speaking at one of the churches.

00:24:52.000 I kind of was like, oh, yeah, kind of as you're speaking, you're thinking, because speaking is thinking.

00:24:56.000 It's the logos. 0.74

00:24:57.000 I was like, well, yeah, obviously this is happening because everyone's having sex before getting married.

00:25:01.000 And this is like a last chance thing.

00:25:03.000 People like, oh, it's because of rape. 1.00

00:25:05.000 What percentage of abortions are for rape? 1.00

00:25:07.000 Yeah.

00:25:07.000 Less than one percent.

00:25:08.000 According to Planned Parents, Guttmacher's Institute, right?

00:25:10.000 Statistical Research Branch Gutmacher, it's less than 1%.

00:25:12.000 So 99% is a form of birth control, right?

00:25:15.000 So that's the problem.

00:25:17.000 And yet, why are people so afraid to talk about this?

00:25:20.000 Well, you might have seen some of the polling recently, Charlie, about the percentage of people who identify as Christian who believe that scripture is the inerrant, infallible word of God.

00:25:32.000 And that what it teaches is therefore correct. 0.84

00:25:36.000 I mean, there are now a minority of Christians who do not believe that the scripture is infallible and inerrant.

00:25:43.000 And so minority, that's a double negative. 0.93

00:25:45.000 What do you mean?

00:25:46.000 There's a minority who, the majority who thinks it isn't.

00:25:50.000 A minority believes that it's a perfection.

00:25:50.000 Sorry.

00:25:51.000 So the minority believe what we believe, that the Bible is perfect.

00:25:54.000 Got it.

00:25:54.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:25:55.000 Yeah.

00:25:55.000 And so, and so much of this, of course, as you and I always talk about, and both of our pastor Rob McCoy always talks about, as the church in the pulpit has abdicated their spiritual obligation to preach the full counsel of God, we're just sending those people and our sheep into the arms of an alternative religion, which has their own very strange answers to fundamentally religious questions.

00:25:55.000 Okay.

00:26:20.000 They're just very different answers than what the church teaches.

00:26:23.000 And so I think one of the reasons to your question, why is the church not talking about this?

00:26:27.000 Wait to have sex till you get married. 1.00

00:26:29.000 You'll be happier and you won't be faced with raising a child that you feel like maybe you're not prepared.

00:26:33.000 It's also the way God tells you because many of them are not living that way.

00:26:37.000 Well, yeah, I guess you're right.

00:26:38.000 I just, but isn't that the root cause of this is kind of sexual anarchy?

00:26:42.000 Of course.

00:26:42.000 It's anything but God's way.

00:26:44.000 And that's what the serpent tells Eve.

00:26:45.000 Yeah.

00:26:46.000 Is if you eat the apple, your eyes will be opened.

00:26:48.000 You'll see my way through.

00:26:49.000 So let's talk about that.

00:26:50.000 I've never heard it put Genesis 3 the way you put it to go get woke.

00:26:55.000 It's the first woke story.

00:26:56.000 Yeah, it's really interesting.

00:26:58.000 Obviously, I love early Genesis.

00:27:00.000 The first 11 books of Genesis are awesome because they're not written in a chronological form.

00:27:05.000 Because as soon as Abraham comes on the scene, it's written very, this happened and this happened.

00:27:09.000 And I'm not saying that the things in the first 11 books didn't happen.

00:27:12.000 That's not what I'm saying.

00:27:13.000 But the timeline is very, you have to infer a time.

00:27:17.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:27:18.000 Not with Noah, it's a little bit more clear.

00:27:20.000 But kind of between Genesis 1 and 3, you don't really know how much time has passed.

00:27:24.000 You can infer it, except for the creation story, right?

00:27:27.000 So, but what do you mean by Genesis 3?

00:27:29.000 That's the first woke story.

00:27:30.000 It's really interesting.

00:27:31.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:27:32.000 And, you know, I think that abortion is the ultimate fulfillment of that first lie, the lie that led to every other lie.

00:27:39.000 The lie of the serpent to Eve, who says, For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof of that fruit, it's the King James version, then your eyes shall be opened.

00:27:50.000 But what's wrong with your eyes being opened?

00:27:51.000 Don't we want to because the secular interpretation is enlightened, yeah, right?

00:27:57.000 We want to, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:27:58.000 But of course, what the serpent's telling Eve is that essentially God's holding out on you, right?

00:28:02.000 For he knows that when you eat of that fruit, your eyes will be opened, you'll live forever.

00:28:07.000 Uh, and so do it my way.

00:28:09.000 It's like, well, no, you were already going to live forever.

00:28:12.000 The insinuation assumption is that God's holding out on you.

00:28:14.000 Do it my way.

00:28:15.000 Why is he trying to keep the delicious fruit away from you?

00:28:17.000 Because he knows your eyes will be opened and ye shall be as gods.

00:28:22.000 But they were already like a God.

00:28:23.000 They were sinless.

00:28:24.000 They would have lived forever.

00:28:25.000 But they chose an alternative way.

00:28:27.000 They saw a different way of living and being disobedience.

00:28:27.000 They got woke.

00:28:31.000 Yeah.

00:28:31.000 So how does that tie to abortion?

00:28:33.000 So abortion is the ultimate fulfillment of that first lie, Charlie.

00:28:36.000 Because if we're God, then not only do we get to decide who lives and who dies, but we also get to live forever.

00:28:44.000 A God, in virtue of being a God, is eternal.

00:28:47.000 A God gets to live forever.

00:28:49.000 And so this is the point that I make a lot in churches, Charlie, to try to rattle the souls of Christians awake to see the spiritual realities before them that the left has slapped the sticker science over and politics over in order to disguise their true agenda.

00:29:04.000 Abortion is the greatest sacrament of the religion of secular progressivism. 0.98

00:29:08.000 That's right.

00:29:09.000 And Peter Kreft put this perfectly once.

00:29:11.000 He said that abortion is the demonic parody of the Eucharist.

00:29:16.000 That's why it uses the same holy words.

00:29:20.000 This is my body, but with the opposite blasphemous meaning.

00:29:27.000 So Christ says, this is my body broken for you.

00:29:27.000 Yeah.

00:29:31.000 This will definitely resonate with your Catholic listeners in remembrance of me.

00:29:34.000 That's right.

00:29:35.000 But the left and the secular progressive movement, Charlie, not ironically, actually says the same words, don't they?

00:29:41.000 Yeah.

00:29:42.000 This is my body, my choice, and I'll kill whatever's inside of my body because the serpent told me in Genesis 3, ye shall be as gods, and I get to decide who lives and who dies. 0.91

00:29:53.000 So not only is abortion the ultimate fulfillment of that first lie, Charlie, in man killing man and deciding who lives and dies, but it's also the fulfillment of that first lie in that we kill babies in order to extend our own lives and attempt to live forever.

00:30:07.000 Let me break that down for your listeners.

00:30:09.000 1 Corinthians 15, 26.

00:30:11.000 The last enemy to be defeated is death.

00:30:14.000 Amen.

00:30:15.000 Christ defeats death on Calvary and says, I've defeated it for you.

00:30:15.000 It has been.

00:30:19.000 Repent and believe, and you'll live forever with me in eternity.

00:30:23.000 The left is seeking to procure and secure, Charlie, what has already been secured for them on Calvary.

00:30:30.000 The prenatal deity, the God-man, who entered human history in a uterus in order to redeem mankind from their sins, has already been beaten, abused, sheds his innocent blood for the remission of sins. 0.83

00:30:42.000 But the culture of death, rather than accepting the broken body and shed blood of Christ for eternal life, demands that we break the bodies and shed the blood of babies for eternal life.

00:30:51.000 How do we do this?

00:30:51.000 Embryonic stem cell research.

00:30:53.000 The left insists that we kill babies to get their stem cells, Charlie. 0.99

00:30:56.000 To use vaccines with them. 0.99

00:30:58.000 To use them to find cures for diseases.

00:30:58.000 That's right.

00:31:01.000 Do you want to know how many diseases are right now successfully being treated with embryonic stem cells?

00:31:07.000 I have no idea.

00:31:07.000 Zero.

00:31:08.000 You know how many diseases are being successfully treated with adult stem cells?

00:31:12.000 Over 75.

00:31:13.000 So I'm interested because they're always talking about how wonderful the aborted fetuses have been for development.

00:31:19.000 You're saying that.

00:31:20.000 Well, that's embryonic stem cell research.

00:31:22.000 Okay.

00:31:22.000 But then I don't know that field as well.

00:31:25.000 So adult stem cells you can get without killing the human.

00:31:28.000 You can't get a baby stem cells without killing the baby. 0.99

00:31:32.000 But they say we need to kill the baby. 1.00

00:31:33.000 Why? 1.00

00:31:34.000 So we can extend our own lives. 0.91

00:31:35.000 They demand that we kill babies to get their parts through fetal tissue research and fetal tissue or fetal organ harvesting in order that those of us who need organs can get them.

00:31:44.000 Or, so if you're Dr. Fauci, you fund the University of Pittsburgh where they scalp babies aborted between 20 and 24 weeks old, take the scalp of that child, insert it subcutaneously on lab rats to create humanized mice to test solutions to staph infections.

00:31:59.000 Oh, yeah.

00:32:00.000 Fauci funds the University of Pittsburgh.

00:32:01.000 People are more mad about the beagles.

00:32:03.000 What happens to a society, Charlie, that's more mad about the abuse of beagles than babies?

00:32:03.000 That's right.

00:32:07.000 We are in deep duty.

00:32:08.000 We have lost our moorings.

00:32:09.000 That's where we are. 0.99

00:32:10.000 They also insist that we kill babies, Charlie, to experiment with prenatal gene editing. 0.76

00:32:14.000 Two stories came out earlier in 2021.

00:32:17.000 The same scientist behind both, Charlie.

00:32:19.000 One was, we're trying to drop the unspoken 14-day limit on growing human beings artificially in labs.

00:32:27.000 They want to see, Charlie, how long can we develop a human, a baby in a lab?

00:32:32.000 Because the more developed and older we can get it without it being in its mother's uterus, we can experiment with prenatal gene editing.

00:32:39.000 Now, that will kill the baby, but on nuts, chucks for the baby, too bad, because if we can perfect gene editing with babies and sacrifice their bodies, maybe we can perfect it before we practice it on ourselves and just edit out from the gene code certain susceptibilities to diseases that we don't like.

00:32:54.000 So the baby simply becomes a sacrifice on man's pursuit for eternal life.

00:32:59.000 Same scientists are creating human-monkey hybrids right now. 0.90

00:33:02.000 I saw that. 0.90

00:33:02.000 And they're developing them, growing them, murdering them. 0.90

00:33:04.000 Why?

00:33:05.000 To get their organs so that, oh, Charlie, you need an extra organ?

00:33:07.000 Well, the little baby-monkey hybrids have some. 1.00

00:33:09.000 In all four of those examples, the left insists that we murder human beings and sacrifice them in order to live longer.

00:33:16.000 And pagan societies have been doing this forever, sacrificing infants, children, and adults to the weather gods, the sex gods, the crop gods, because their belief was in sacrificing a person, they would receive a blessing in return from that deity and their lives would be extended. 0.64

00:33:34.000 But it's still demon worship, isn't it?

00:33:36.000 Because if Yahweh is Yahweh, that means one God, which means any other small G god is not a god. 0.98

00:33:42.000 It's Satan masquerading as a little freaking bronze dude. 0.97

00:33:42.000 We know that. 0.97

00:33:46.000 Satan is Molech, whom the Israelites and Canaanites were sacrificing their babies to. 1.00

00:33:50.000 Satan is the dragon in Revelation, waiting for Mary to give birth to Christ to eat Christ.

00:33:55.000 And of course, he's behind the killing of babies by Herod in Bethlehem and by Pharaoh in Egypt. 0.74

00:34:00.000 Satan doesn't care what name you call him, as long as you continue to shove children down his throats, he will be satisfied and say yes and amen, for he is the god of the religion of secular progressivism whose greatest sacrament is abortion.

00:34:14.000 So, Charlie, when we say, if you don't get the right to life right, you won't get any other rights right.

00:34:21.000 The left has the antonym of that.

00:34:23.000 They have an inversion of that statement that animates their entire political project.

00:34:27.000 It goes something like this.

00:34:28.000 If you can invert the right to life, there's nothing else you can't invert.

00:34:32.000 And if you can indoctrinate the public to celebrate and champion the genocide of babies under the euphemisms of reproductive justice and reproductive health care, then there is no end to your political project.

00:34:44.000 So the entire liberal regime is actually built on the mutilated, murdered bodies of 63 million children.

00:34:50.000 It's how they prop up their political regime, which is why every time a Supreme Court seat opens up, what's every Chiron? 1.00

00:34:56.000 What's every statement from the mainstream media?

00:34:58.000 Abortion.

00:34:59.000 They don't talk about immigration.

00:35:00.000 They don't talk about transgender.

00:35:02.000 They don't talk about guns.

00:35:03.000 They don't talk about drugs.

00:35:04.000 Every time a Supreme Court seat opened up during the Trump administration, they're going to take away abortion. 1.00

00:35:09.000 If that doesn't tell your listeners how much they care about abortion, I don't know what will.

00:35:13.000 That's always been the goal, though, to entirely upend society so that they can recreate it in their own image.

00:35:18.000 And murdering the baby and championing their slaughter is how they do that.

00:35:22.000 In closing, are we winning?

00:35:25.000 I think that we won't win until the church decides to abandon, and let me quote you, their comfortable Christianity and embrace a comprehensive Christianity, to get our boots off the ground, to do what our friend Heidi St. John says, to get off the bench and start contending on behalf of the pre-born child, to learn from our spiritual forefathers, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Martin E. Moeller, Eberhard Bethke, Sophie Scholl, Oscar Schindler, William Wilberforce, Frederick Douglass, Jonathan, Harriet Tubman.

00:35:51.000 Let's go down and down the line.

00:35:53.000 That's right, who put truth and loving their neighbor before their own reputation.

00:35:57.000 I think you and I sense a stirring happening in the country.

00:36:00.000 I think we all sense it.

00:36:01.000 But until the bride of Christ wakes up and decides to contend on behalf of life first and then procuring every other right, liberty, pursuit of happiness, then we will not. 0.92

00:36:10.000 I will say this, though, in closing, I think is positive.

00:36:13.000 And it's not all positive.

00:36:14.000 Number one, the Texas abortion law is a good start. 0.99

00:36:17.000 It really is.

00:36:17.000 That's right.

00:36:18.000 And I do believe in incrementalism because some pro-life people say, it doesn't go far enough.

00:36:22.000 I was like, man, you got to be a little more prudent about this.

00:36:25.000 Seriously.

00:36:26.000 You didn't abolish slavery overnight, right?

00:36:28.000 You had the Fugitive Slave Acts.

00:36:30.000 You had all sorts of things that you had to get rid of before you were able to get to the Emancipation Proclamation.

00:36:35.000 But when you look at Texas, it's actually popular.

00:36:39.000 Yeah.

00:36:40.000 It's winning.

00:36:40.000 And that's a good thing.

00:36:41.000 And what's also interesting is if you read Barry Goldwater, who I have a lot of respect for, but he was pro-abortion.

00:36:47.000 He wrote, he was right on so much.

00:36:49.000 He was so wrong on this, mostly because of his second wife and all sorts of stuff.

00:36:52.000 But he wrote that Republicans must abandon the abortion issue.

00:36:58.000 There was a lot of chatter about that in the 70s and 80s.

00:37:01.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:37:02.000 And it shocks a lot of people now that it's actually the most non-negotiable issue.

00:37:07.000 That's right.

00:37:08.000 And this is something that I tell churches that are pro-life, but not political or conservative.

00:37:12.000 They're like, oh, I don't like Republics, all this.

00:37:14.000 I'm like, you do realize that if you go give any pro-life one-liner at any of our events, that'll be the number one applause line of the entire event.

00:37:23.000 That's right.

00:37:23.000 Number one.

00:37:24.000 I was like, there is a home for it, and it's growing.

00:37:27.000 And so the fact that pro-abortion Republicans, there's no place for them in our party.

00:37:33.000 End of story.

00:37:34.000 That's right.

00:37:34.000 That's a really good thing.

00:37:35.000 That's a good thing.

00:37:36.000 It is a winning.

00:37:36.000 Yeah.

00:37:37.000 Because you need a political home for this stuff.

00:37:39.000 That's right.

00:37:39.000 Because some people say, oh, we have to win culture.

00:37:41.000 We have to do both.

00:37:42.000 We are political animals, Aristotle said.

00:37:43.000 If you just, if you get rid of the political apparatus and the vessel, I think it's a huge mistake.

00:37:48.000 Yeah.

00:37:48.000 That's right.

00:37:48.000 And I'm not saying it's everything, though.

00:37:49.000 Don't go.

00:37:50.000 And we have to wake up to this.

00:37:51.000 You know, Aristotle once said that tolerance and apathy are the last virtue of the dying society.

00:37:56.000 That's right.

00:37:57.000 And we are in that phase right now.

00:37:59.000 We're at the end of the road.

00:38:00.000 We don't wake up and start contending on behalf of the pre-born.

00:38:02.000 This American experience.

00:38:03.000 We're tolerating.

00:38:04.000 It's over.

00:38:04.000 We're tolerating the destruction of the pre-born.

00:38:06.000 And we're so we wonder why every other right we've taken for granted is deteriorated.

00:38:10.000 Exactly.

00:38:10.000 Why are they putting masks on kids?

00:38:12.000 That's right.

00:38:12.000 Well, everyone pushing it's pro-abortion.

00:38:14.000 Well, no, I'm saying that's the same sort of moral slide.

00:38:19.000 That's right.

00:38:21.000 Seth, this is great.

00:38:21.000 How can people follow you or support you?

00:38:23.000 Yeah, thank you.

00:38:23.000 So I have a podcast called Unaborted with Seth Gruber because we're all unaborted.

00:38:28.000 And you're born unvaccinated.

00:38:30.000 That's right.

00:38:31.000 As Reagan said, I've noticed everyone who's for abortion has already been born. 0.76

00:38:34.000 It's one of the most beautiful lines.

00:38:35.000 Pro-choicers get very frustrated with that line because it is so ironic that you sanction the slaughter of children in a womb you once came from.

00:38:42.000 So unaborted with Seth Gruber, I do two episodes a week, one with me, one with a guest.

00:38:46.000 And so if you want to become a pro-life ninja and flipping around, demolishing abortion, bigotry, wherever you find it, my podcast is home free.

00:38:53.000 Pro-life ninja.

00:38:54.000 So you can watch it on YouTube.

00:38:56.000 We got to get you going to campuses.

00:38:57.000 That's right.

00:38:58.000 And I have before.

00:38:58.000 I was scheduled at UC Berkeley, actually, Charlie, the day that it shut down in March of 2022.

00:39:04.000 We got to do it the turning point way, though.

00:39:05.000 We got to get it with like some controversy, some spice.

00:39:08.000 You know what I mean?

00:39:08.000 And we're working on some stuff and we're working on a new season here.

00:39:11.000 And then my website, SethGruber.com.

00:39:13.000 Charlie, you and I have a friend and a very generous church partner of mine who has offered to underwrite all of my travel expenses and honorarium for churches, youth groups, or Christian schools who would like to bring me out to equip and fire up their people to defend life, but maybe who don't have the defense to make all that happen.

00:39:31.000 So you can contact me through SethGruber.com.

00:39:33.000 How do you spell Gruber?

00:39:34.000 G-R-U-B is in babyboy, E-R.com.

00:39:38.000 Good job.

00:39:39.000 That's right.

00:39:40.000 Or my email is Seth.

00:39:41.000 at SethGruber.com.

00:39:42.000 Follow me on Facebook and Instagram.

00:39:44.000 So that's available as a sponsorship to people who want to get pro-life education.

00:39:48.000 You're going to have some people hit you up.

00:39:49.000 And I'm telling you, Seth is awesome.

00:39:51.000 He's magnanimous.

00:39:52.000 He'll charm the audience, but he'll tell the truth.

00:39:56.000 There's no wavering, as you guys could tell.

00:39:58.000 It's terrific.

00:39:59.000 Seth, we have to have you back on more often just to talk about all this sort of stuff to build a cultural life.

00:40:04.000 That's right.

00:40:05.000 It's so important.

00:40:06.000 And if anyone has any questions, you guys can email us, freedom at charliekirk.com and take Seth up on his offer.

00:40:11.000 He'll travel to you and he'll turn you into a pro-life ninja. 0.82

00:40:15.000 All right.

00:40:15.000 God bless you, Seth.

00:40:16.000 Thanks so much.

00:40:17.000 Thanks for listening, everybody.

00:40:20.000 Thank you so much for listening, everybody.

00:40:22.000 Email me directly, freedom at charliekirk.com or support the Charlie Kirk Show at CharlieKirk.com/slash support.

00:40:28.000 Thank you so much for listening.

00:40:29.000 God bless.

00:40:32.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - May 15, 2022

The BEST Pro-Life Arguments Around with Seth Gruber

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