The Charlie Kirk Show - October 06, 2026


The Truth About The Cornell Seven + A New Pandemic?

Hosted by
Mentioned
Free Speech: America's Most Unique Right

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 16 minutes

Words per minute

161.37

Word count

12,415

Sentence count

947

Harmful content

Misogyny

38

sentences flagged

Toxicity

40

sentences flagged

Hate speech

41

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcripts from "The Charlie Kirk Show" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:03.000 My name is Charlie Kirk.
00:00:05.000 I run the largest pro-American student organization in the country fighting for the future of our republic.
00:00:11.000 My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth.
00:00:14.000 If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're going to end up miserable.
00:00:19.000 But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful.
00:00:24.000 College is a scam, everybody.
00:00:26.000 You've got to stop sending your kids to college.
00:00:27.000 You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible.
00:00:31.000 Go start a Turning Point USA college chapter.
00:00:33.000 Go start a Turning Point USA High School chapter.
00:00:35.000 Go find out how your church can get involved.
00:00:37.000 Sign up and become an activist.
00:00:39.000 I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade.
00:00:41.000 Most important decision I ever made in my life.
00:00:43.000 And I encourage you to do the same.
00:00:45.000 Here I am.
00:00:46.000 Lord, use me.
00:00:48.000 Buckle up, everybody.
00:00:49.000 Here we go.
00:00:56.000 Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of The Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals.
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00:01:13.000 That is Noble Gold Investments.com.
00:01:18.000 All right.
00:01:18.000 Welcome, everybody.
00:01:19.000 It's October 6, 2026.
00:01:21.000 We are here at the Y Refi Studios in Phoenix, Arizona.
00:01:24.000 Honored to be with you all across this fruited plain, this beautiful country of ours.
00:01:29.000 So we're nearing the midterms.
00:01:30.000 We got breaking news to get to.
00:01:32.000 This story was going viral on X yesterday, and it was brought to you by none other than TPSA Frontlines.
00:01:39.000 Uh, well, it's Brandon Dre and Taylor Hanson.
00:01:42.000 They were down at the border yesterday, and Taylor joins us in studio.
00:01:45.000 Honored to have you here, my friend.
00:01:47.000 It's just a quick hop and a jump up from the border up to Phoenix.
00:01:51.000 So happy to have you, man.
00:01:53.000 Yep.
00:01:53.000 Thanks for having me.
00:01:54.000 So, there, this story, if you guys haven't heard about it, there is an autonomous zone that has developed right at the border where they're trying to construct the border wall.
00:02:04.000 And there was a tree in place that a bunch of sort of like, if you just put your mind back in the summer of love, the Chaz Chop.
00:02:12.000 Fiasco in Seattle, Washington.
00:02:14.000 It was similar.
00:02:15.000 It is similar to that.
00:02:16.000 You have a bunch of crazed leftist Antifa types camping out at the border trying to block the demolition of a tree to take out this tree that would get in the way of a border wall.
00:02:27.000 Why don't you tell us what you saw here?
00:02:29.000 We've got some great footage.
00:02:31.000 And you guys ended up getting into some scuffles with these folks.
00:02:33.000 Yeah, to say the least.
00:02:35.000 Well, it was fascinating.
00:02:36.000 We went down there the day before because they were doing a direct day of action.
00:02:39.000 They called for this national direct day of action from people all around the country to come down.
00:02:43.000 And be in solidarity with those in Local that are stopping this genocidal administration.
00:02:51.000 Local is in Arizona.
00:02:53.000 Okay, it's a town in Local.
00:02:54.000 It's actually a ghost town.
00:02:56.000 So it's literally completely abandoned.
00:02:58.000 To put it in perspective, we had to drive from Patagonia down to Local.
00:03:02.000 It took about an hour and 10 minutes, and it is completely unpaved off road.
00:03:05.000 So these people are coming from all around the country and driving.
00:03:09.000 They're going to fly into Tucson, and then they're driving hours down this unpaved road to go and then camp on private property.
00:03:15.000 Right on the basically exterior of what is the Roosevelt easement.
00:03:19.000 So, by doing so, that's the picture of the Roosevelt.
00:03:21.000 Yeah, that's the Roosevelt easement.
00:03:22.000 That road right there is the easement.
00:03:24.000 So, you have actually this area, they're trying to build a double border wall because it's called a quick hitter spot.
00:03:29.000 So, this means that you have cartel activity, human smuggling, drug smuggling activity happening in this corridor at a higher rate than anywhere else.
00:03:36.000 So, it's a high priority to get this double border wall up.
00:03:38.000 But these activists, they've kind of almost posed themselves as environmentalists.
00:03:42.000 And as this has dragged on, it's been going on since July 27th.
00:03:45.000 This is what's hilarious.
00:03:47.000 July 27th?
00:03:48.000 July 27th is the day. 0.98
00:03:49.000 This is ridiculous. 0.97
00:03:50.000 I'm going to make some phone calls because I find this to be ridiculous. 0.97
00:03:53.000 So these squatters, these criminals, Antifa types, have been squatting on this land and growing in numbers since July. 0.93
00:04:02.000 And they are acting like environmentalists about a cottonwood tree.
00:04:06.000 A cottonwood tree, folks.
00:04:08.000 These are a dime a dozen.
00:04:10.000 I like a cottonwood tree as much as the next guy, but it's not like some endangered species.
00:04:15.000 It's not some precious, you know, rare type of tree or something.
00:04:19.000 It's just blocking where they need to build the wall.
00:04:22.000 But they took it down.
00:04:24.000 And ultimately, but before this happened, you guys actually got your tires slashed.
00:04:29.000 Tell us about this.
00:04:30.000 Yeah, well, we had gone in, and within 15 minutes, you know, I was with.
00:04:34.000 Our camera op and Brandon actually had gone off alone to kind of cover the other side of the encampment.
00:04:39.000 Border Patrol had made a mistake, they had thought that Brandon was actually part of this protest.
00:04:44.000 He does kind of look left coated.
00:04:46.000 So, they hadn't, you know, they knew that the guys up top were good, you know, me and our camera op were good, but they didn't know Brandon yet.
00:04:52.000 So, the Border Patrol guys down there sent him under the tape to the private property.
00:04:56.000 And these guys are like, What you don't belong over here, yeah.
00:04:59.000 And they immediately start assaulting him.
00:05:01.000 You know, they broke his meta glasses, they tried punching him, tried breaking his camera.
00:05:05.000 So, naturally, he says, I'm getting out of here.
00:05:07.000 He returns to the car.
00:05:08.000 Obviously, to make sure he's physically okay and to just check on the car, he had a hunch.
00:05:12.000 And I filmed a stand up probably five minutes before this happened.
00:05:15.000 I said, you know, hopefully, you know, they don't mess with our car.
00:05:17.000 He goes back to the car and they've completely slashed both of the tires.
00:05:21.000 And what I found interesting is the person that we first saw get, you know, arrested or detained, they were then released.
00:05:29.000 And that was the girl who then proceeded to then slash the tires.
00:05:33.000 So we know who did it.
00:05:35.000 So we arrested her?
00:05:36.000 They were sitting there mocking us.
00:05:37.000 They literally are sitting there after she was re released.
00:05:39.000 And they're like, oh, your tires are so flat.
00:05:41.000 Your tires are screwed.
00:05:42.000 And they were just sitting there mocking us back and forth. 0.93
00:05:44.000 But were they arrested?
00:05:46.000 No, nobody was arrested.
00:05:47.000 So, this is a bigger problem here.
00:05:50.000 Okay, so let's play.
00:05:52.000 This is Brandon talking about the assault, which is completely unacceptable.
00:05:57.000 SOT 22.
00:05:59.000 Basically, they found out we're with Turning Point and they assaulted me, grabbed my Osmo, ripped my meta sunglasses off of my face.
00:06:09.000 You can see, broke those, slashed our tires.
00:06:17.000 On our rental car.
00:06:23.000 Let's see through here. 0.97
00:06:24.000 Got this goon over here just yelling at me.
00:06:26.000 And now we got these construction trucks coming to tear down this tree that all these far left activists are protesting over because they don't want the tree torn down so that they can't finish building the border wall.
00:06:42.000 And I told him, I'm like, you guys are all posing as environmentalists when the only thing you care about is the wall because you have nothing better to do with your time.
00:06:50.000 Yeah.
00:06:50.000 And so there was a whole confrontation that happened.
00:06:55.000 But the point here is that they are allowed.
00:06:58.000 So, first question I asked you when you came in the studio this morning, I was like, how are they allowed?
00:07:02.000 Because that easement, that road right there is federal land.
00:07:06.000 The Border Patrol is there, but they're camping literally feet away on private property.
00:07:12.000 Why are they allowed to do that?
00:07:14.000 It's a good question.
00:07:15.000 It's like a patchwork of federal reservation lands and of private land kind of in this place.
00:07:20.000 So, The private land owners that happen to own all this land along the easement, they are in support of these protesters and in support of their directors.
00:07:28.000 Why would they be in support of a bunch of drug smugglers that can get in?
00:07:31.000 It's a good question.
00:07:32.000 Well, and you have other groups like this all throughout Arizona and through Texas as well.
00:07:36.000 I mean, in Aravaca, you have similar things going on.
00:07:39.000 So this isn't anything out of the normal.
00:07:41.000 It's just the fact that no media has really known this has been going on since July 27th.
00:07:46.000 And the fact that this has been able to go on since then, it needs to be addressed.
00:07:50.000 And that was the whole point of coming down here, to shine a light on it and say, hey, You guys need your help down here.
00:07:57.000 These Border Patrol guys should be all arrested.
00:07:59.000 Yeah, it well, it seems fascinating to me.
00:08:01.000 You said there are people coming in from all over, and I assume you've seen are you just running into the same people almost anywhere you go in the country when you look for these Antifa types?
00:08:11.000 Like, how many people are actually involved in this movement, such as it is?
00:08:15.000 That's a good question.
00:08:16.000 I wouldn't say you run into the exact same people, but it's the exact same organizations, the exact same money, the funding, the mutual aid movements.
00:08:23.000 Is I mean, we have videos there, it's you know, from Minnesota to Arizona in solidarity.
00:08:27.000 So, Minnesota is kind of.
00:08:30.000 It's been odd.
00:08:30.000 The past two years or so, it's kind of become ground zero.
00:08:33.000 You know, Portland, Seattle, those used to be ground zero for the actual organizing and grassroots and the mutual aid movements.
00:08:39.000 But Minnesota has kind of become that new hotspot.
00:08:42.000 So you see all the funding.
00:08:43.000 You know, I covered a protest in LA on May Day.
00:08:46.000 All of their funding, everything that they had supplied, came directly from the guys in Minnesota.
00:08:50.000 So I would have, I would say, you know, I can't 100% confirm that their stuff is coming from Minnesota, but there are people from out of state, from Minnesota, from Portland, from Seattle, from these other Flashpoint areas that have been flying into this area.
00:09:03.000 All right, I want to play SOT 20 because this is what I'm zeroing in on that this is unacceptable. 0.93
00:09:08.000 You film this, and it's all these Antifa types running around.
00:09:11.000 They grab a couple of them, then they just let them go.
00:09:14.000 I don't, for the life of me, understand what the heck's going on here.
00:09:16.000 SOT 20.
00:09:18.000 Can't be over here.
00:09:19.000 Too bad.
00:09:19.000 Hey, I'm glad you're.
00:09:28.000 All right, here you go.
00:09:37.000 You got it.
00:09:41.000 I'm going to have to get it.
00:09:54.000 We need to let them go right now.
00:09:57.000 Let go.
00:09:57.000 We need to let them go.
00:09:58.000 Let go.
00:09:59.000 Let go.
00:09:59.000 Back up.
00:10:01.000 Back up.
00:10:01.000 Back up.
00:10:03.000 Back up.
00:10:04.000 Look at that. 1.00
00:10:04.000 Every single one of those are women. 1.00
00:10:06.000 Every single one of those people attacking that Border Patrol agent.
00:10:09.000 It just seems like every single one of them, it's like, okay, you're shoving an officer.
00:10:12.000 Bam.
00:10:12.000 10 years.
00:10:13.000 Thanks.
00:10:14.000 Come again.
00:10:14.000 Done.
00:10:15.000 Yeah.
00:10:16.000 I mean, this is insane.
00:10:18.000 And this is why I said I need to make some calls because, like, this is, that's unacceptable that any law enforcement officer in this country gets treated that way.
00:10:26.000 If you touch a cop, you're going to jail.
00:10:29.000 Simple as that.
00:10:30.000 When you were down there, did you talk with law enforcement, Border Patrol? 0.98
00:10:36.000 Did they express frustration that they haven't been able to do what needs to be done to deal with these freaking thugs that are obstructing law enforcement? 0.96
00:10:45.000 Yeah, we can say that for the least. 0.94
00:10:48.000 I've talked to countless Border Patrol agents down there, both me and my camera, I know Brandon spoke to some as well, and every single one of them are frustrated.
00:10:56.000 They feel like they don't have the support.
00:10:58.000 They feel like they're being played with, right?
00:10:59.000 And I have a quote from one.
00:11:01.000 That I'll read to you guys.
00:11:02.000 I'm not going to attribute to him because obviously you don't want to get him in trouble.
00:11:05.000 But he feels like Border Patrol and the rest of his teams are being held hostage by far-left anarchists.
00:11:10.000 This is actually how.
00:11:11.000 Of course they are.
00:11:11.000 And this is leadership within Border Patrol.
00:11:13.000 This is how they feel all across the board.
00:11:16.000 And it doesn't help that the local sheriffs came down and they stood with the protesters in solidarity.
00:11:20.000 You're kidding.
00:11:21.000 Whoa.
00:11:22.000 Yep.
00:11:22.000 So they have no help from the sheriff's department.
00:11:24.000 They have no help from local police departments from any outside.
00:11:26.000 You flood the zone, you send a bunch of guys down there, and you wait for them to step on that federal land and do any of this.
00:11:33.000 I mean,.
00:11:33.000 Right there.
00:11:34.000 There's already an excuse to arrest seven, eight of those women. 1.00
00:11:39.000 Cackling hens. 1.00
00:11:40.000 You hear them screaming.
00:11:42.000 It's interesting just how it works.
00:11:43.000 It's a very big change from how far leftism has historically been.
00:11:47.000 It used to be a more masculine movement, but now it's like they've practically learned to weaponize.
00:11:54.000 Like, I am a screaming woman.
00:11:56.000 You don't really feel comfortable roughing up a screaming woman, even if they're getting in your face, shoving you, hitting you.
00:12:04.000 But they know, and the left knows this.
00:12:07.000 We mentioned this when we had the ICE stuff last year with the shootings that they are basically intentionally trying to create some sort of violent crisis with their activists.
00:12:16.000 I totally agree.
00:12:18.000 But here's the good news the good news is they got the tree felled.
00:12:21.000 They fell the tree.
00:12:22.000 Play the B roll again.
00:12:23.000 No, 23.
00:12:24.000 Here we go.
00:12:24.000 Yes.
00:13:01.000 Thank you.
00:13:02.000 Moment, it reminded me of the 2020, uh, or the you know, those videos, the meltdowns, or like the women at inauguration.
00:13:07.000 Yeah, when we were filming, it's sad we clearly had to remove some swearing there because it just sounds like they're screaming directly after that.
00:13:14.000 They started to all chant in unison, never forget, as if this was like 9 11, right?
00:13:18.000 So I was like, Oh, that was beautiful.
00:13:20.000 I almost want to play that again, uh, play the B roll again, yeah, play the B roll.
00:13:24.000 It's so good though to hear them screaming.
00:13:26.000 And I did hear a couple, I did hear a couple male like screams, yeah, never forget.
00:13:31.000 So listen, here's what needs to be done you flood that zone.
00:13:35.000 And you arrest every single one of them and you touch a cop, you're going away for 10 years.
00:13:40.000 Okay?
00:13:40.000 If that was actually how we dealt with these miscreants, I'm trying to find nice words other than the pejoratives that I really want to use.
00:13:49.000 If this is how we dealt with them, this wouldn't be happening.
00:13:52.000 You go away for 10 years, you touch a cop.
00:13:54.000 That needs to be the standard.
00:13:57.000 We need the border wall right here. 1.00
00:13:58.000 By the way, these people are ridiculous. 0.99
00:14:01.000 This is the most insane objection to anything. 1.00
00:14:04.000 This is a hot spot on the border where cartels are smuggling.
00:14:07.000 People and drugs, it needs to be shut down.
00:14:10.000 This is poison coming into our country.
00:14:12.000 This is crimes against humanity coming into our country. 1.00
00:14:16.000 And these idiots are worried about a cottonwood tree. 1.00
00:14:19.000 Well, and that's, they're not actually worried about the cottonwood tree. 1.00
00:14:21.000 That's the thing is, yeah, they may care a little bit about nature.
00:14:25.000 They may care about the cottonwood tree, but that is the tool that they are using for their activism to actually get this border wall shut down.
00:14:32.000 It's just that with leftists, you see this time and time again through 16 through now, is they attach themselves to Any movement to any topic that they see to further their revolution or their goals.
00:14:43.000 You know, 2016 BLM, then the pro Palestinian movement with the riots and everything going on.
00:14:48.000 And they just kind of hop from one thing to another because this didn't work or this advanced our cause at least this much.
00:14:54.000 Okay, what's the next thing to advance our cause?
00:14:56.000 And that's exactly what they're using here.
00:14:58.000 Well, I mean, and it goes to a deeper, more fundamental level.
00:15:01.000 I mean, you couldn't get conservatives to do this at all.
00:15:04.000 You couldn't.
00:15:05.000 We're just wired differently.
00:15:06.000 We care about our church, we care about our family, we care about building our business.
00:15:11.000 Care about building our kids up.
00:15:14.000 You don't see conservatives go camp out in a field protecting a cottonwood tree.
00:15:20.000 It wouldn't happen.
00:15:21.000 And they definitely don't slash your tires of someone along the way.
00:15:24.000 Oh, yeah.
00:15:26.000 And all of that low grade violence from Antifa to me is just a perfect encapsulation of what they are.
00:15:33.000 They're spiteful.
00:15:35.000 They don't believe in debate.
00:15:37.000 They don't believe in dialogue.
00:15:38.000 They actually want to find every means possible.
00:15:42.000 To hurt you, including breaking the law.
00:15:43.000 And that's why they're dangerous, and that's why they need to be purged from public life, prison.
00:15:48.000 I'm telling you exactly.
00:15:49.000 The reason this happens, the reason they're allowed to throw tangents.
00:15:51.000 They don't have enough fear.
00:15:52.000 They do not fear law enforcement.
00:15:55.000 They need to fear law enforcement.
00:15:56.000 Well, I'll tell you this I'm fairly well traveled, at least I think so.
00:16:00.000 And last year, I've been around.
00:16:02.000 I've been around.
00:16:03.000 Like Johnny Cash.
00:16:04.000 I've been shot at.
00:16:05.000 I've witnessed horrific things in person.
00:16:08.000 I've happened to others. 1.00
00:16:09.000 And I would rather get in a firefight in Africa, right? 0.74
00:16:13.000 I was in Africa for a month last year.
00:16:15.000 I'd rather get in five firefights than have to cover one of these events again.
00:16:18.000 And why, you know, that sounds crazy is these people are so unpredictable.
00:16:22.000 They're so volatile that any second can just alter your entire day or your entire life, right?
00:16:30.000 They're just so unhinged to the extent that you don't know what they're going to do.
00:16:34.000 At least in a situation where I'm in a firefight overseas or something, one of these more sketchy situations that it seems like on the surface, there's more control there.
00:16:42.000 I have security, my security, they're professionals, right?
00:16:45.000 In this situation, it's me, Brandon, and our camera operator.
00:16:48.000 In the middle of nowhere, an hour and a half from the city.
00:16:51.000 That's surrounded by law enforcement, though.
00:16:52.000 Yeah.
00:16:52.000 That's surrounded by Border Patrol, but not the Sheriff's Department.
00:16:55.000 That's true.
00:16:56.000 Because they refuse to actually enforce the law.
00:16:58.000 What do you think the story there is?
00:16:59.000 You think they're true believers or they just don't want to mess with these activists and get in their crosshairs?
00:17:04.000 They're scared of the jurisdictional issues as well.
00:17:06.000 I mean, Border Patrol's worried about jurisdiction.
00:17:08.000 Everybody's worried about jurisdiction here because it's such a weird patchwork area of land.
00:17:12.000 They just, I think they've seen what has happened to ICE agents around the country and they just want nothing to do with it.
00:17:17.000 And frankly, I don't blame them.
00:17:19.000 Do I think they should have gone and stood in solidarity?
00:17:21.000 No, right?
00:17:22.000 That's pretty cowardly, but you can't really blame them when you've seen what's happened to all of our ICE agents around the country and the way that they're already talking about how to persecute these people.
00:17:30.000 Yeah, that's really what's going on here the admin is probably trying to take a soft.
00:17:34.000 Touch approach to not create a news cycle. 0.91
00:17:38.000 But the problem is, when you do this, you get this whole other news cycle where you get a Chaz Chop situation right at the border.
00:17:43.000 And now it went viral.
00:17:45.000 We want to avoid viral videos of, I mean, certainly like someone getting shot, but Antifa members getting arrested, getting charged, getting in prison.
00:17:54.000 We'll cheer you.
00:17:55.000 Zero negative impact to that.
00:17:56.000 And they've howled about that.
00:17:58.000 Those guys who attacked the ICE facility in Dallas, they got decade plus prison sentences.
00:18:02.000 The left is freaked out.
00:18:03.000 I've only heard support from the right.
00:18:05.000 And no one else really knows about it. 1.00
00:18:06.000 No, you would get roundly applauded if you threw about 20 of those idiots in prison for 10 years. 1.00
00:18:12.000 Normal people don't support this. 1.00
00:18:14.000 That's just the reality of it.
00:18:15.000 And by the way, normal Arizonans want their border shut off and they don't want fentanyl and human trafficking coming up through the South.
00:18:22.000 Anyways, Taylor Hanson, great job.
00:18:24.000 Story went viral.
00:18:25.000 An important spotlight has been placed on this border issue.
00:18:29.000 And we have you to thank for that.
00:18:30.000 Thank you so much.
00:18:31.000 And great job, Brandon Dre, as well.
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00:20:00.000 Man, we got a ton of emails from you guys about that border story.
00:20:03.000 I think my favorite was the guy who said, Do we have a kind of gun that shoots sound, like a sound gun that makes them poop their pants? 0.69
00:20:11.000 We should use it on them.
00:20:12.000 I don't know if we do, but we should use it on them.
00:20:14.000 We should investigate whether we have some of that.
00:20:16.000 There's got to be some.
00:20:17.000 Something that will just irritate the you know what out of them. 0.99
00:20:20.000 Without further ado, Heather McDonald, welcome back to the show.
00:20:24.000 It's been too long, Heather.
00:20:25.000 We've missed you.
00:20:26.000 I've missed you too, guys.
00:20:28.000 Thank you so much for having me.
00:20:29.000 I saw you with the absolute best take on the internet yesterday talking about the Cornell 7.
00:20:38.000 And I don't even want to play into the name because there's different dudes that do different things.
00:20:44.000 It's a catchy catch.
00:20:45.000 Yeah, but it tells you what you need to know.
00:20:48.000 All right, so just high level, and then I'm going to get your take here. 1.00
00:20:51.000 A girl gets drunk and high, goes to a frat party, consensually engages in sexual activity. 1.00
00:20:57.000 There's no white hats here. 0.99
00:20:59.000 It's all debaucherous, gross behavior.
00:21:01.000 I said on the internet yesterday, I said, this is nightmare fuel for any parent.
00:21:05.000 Okay.
00:21:05.000 You don't want to see your kids behaving this way.
00:21:08.000 But then she gets called a whore and she admits to this. 0.99
00:21:12.000 She doesn't say that it was a gang rape situation. 0.99
00:21:15.000 But then she gets disinvited from a Halloween party.
00:21:19.000 Her reputation is damaged.
00:21:20.000 And then all of a sudden, she believes that she's been the victim of a sexual assault.
00:21:27.000 This has divided the internet.
00:21:29.000 Protests going crazy at Cornell yesterday.
00:21:31.000 Here are feminists roar, all this stuff.
00:21:34.000 Heather McDonald, you are an apt observer of the human condition and of the pathogens that are infecting the modern mind.
00:21:42.000 How do you view what happened at Cornell?
00:21:44.000 Well, we're seeing the rule that you're supposed to believe survivors, but only when they tell you that they've been raped.
00:21:52.000 If a putative survivor tells you she's not been raped, that's merely all the more proof that she's been raped so violently that she's in trauma.
00:22:03.000 And cannot possibly process her experience accurately.
00:22:08.000 And because the Jane Doe, and I hope she will be eventually unmasked, sent an amazing trove of evidence suggesting that she viewed this episode as voluntary, as consensual.
00:22:24.000 I would like to submit the proposition that if you have been subjected to the second most violent felony that a female can ever experience in her life, which is rape.
00:22:35.000 Second only to murder at a frat house, you do not solicit an invitation to go back to that rape den for more.
00:22:45.000 And yet she was so happy when she finally got the invitation to go back and she called her alleged rapist her friends.
00:22:55.000 And as you say, Andrew, it was only when the president of that frat house disinvited her for her own good because her reputation was being.
00:23:05.000 Amazingly torn down. 0.96
00:23:07.000 And we can talk about how, what a discovery, a pleasant discovery to learn that the idea of slut is still allowed on campus. 0.99
00:23:18.000 But she proceeded to, you know, try and maintain as much contact with her alleged rapist as possible. 0.90
00:23:27.000 But if you believe Kathy Hochul, the governor of New York, if you believe Letitia James, if you believe Alexandra Ocasio Ortiz, most appallingly, if you believe the president of Cornell, Who we're supposed to assume has some shred of rationality and some, you know, reality based touch with his community, if you believe him, this was rape from the start.
00:23:52.000 And what we need to do is beef up the campus rape bureaucracy even further.
00:23:58.000 I feel like a way to more honestly frame this would be to stop calling it the Cornell 7 and start calling it the Cornell 1.
00:24:05.000 Yeah.
00:24:05.000 Because that's who the wrongdoer here is.
00:24:07.000 Well, I think there's a lot of bad behavior, but that is.
00:24:10.000 There's a clear difference between dissolute, immoral behavior and actively decided to get the legal system involved, turn this into a giant nationwide story to, I feel we all agree, avoid confronting the reality of one's own behavior.
00:24:28.000 Well, exactly.
00:24:29.000 Go ahead, Heather.
00:24:30.000 Well, you know, they say you shouldn't watch legislation being made, you shouldn't watch the sausage being made.
00:24:36.000 We are in a weird position now where we're watching the lie being made.
00:24:41.000 The data is out there.
00:24:43.000 The evidence is out there.
00:24:44.000 Her texts are out there where she is exonerating her alleged rapists, where she is saying, love you to one of them, where she is saying, we all know that none of this was illegal, what went on that night.
00:25:01.000 And yet all of that evidence is being systematically removed.
00:25:05.000 Once reported, it then disappears from the record.
00:25:08.000 And you have this absolutely conventional, trite, You know, by the book formulaic narrative coming out, which was that this was a rape, despite the evidence that's already on the record.
00:25:27.000 And we'll see, you know, whose side wins at this point.
00:25:32.000 The fabulists who are committed to the idea that there is a patriarchy, because this is something that goes way beyond the betrayal of universities of their academic mission.
00:25:47.000 This is about.
00:25:49.000 Destroying males. 0.59
00:25:50.000 That's what it's always been about.
00:25:54.000 You know, we've seen the destruction of the due process protections that males should have in these kangaroo court tribunals.
00:26:06.000 But the people that are committed to this narrative of a patriarchy that oppresses women have no shame.
00:26:14.000 They're continuing with this, and we'll see if those wins or the people who can actually look at evidence.
00:26:22.000 And draw rational conclusions from it.
00:26:25.000 Well, you mentioned this destruction of males.
00:26:29.000 I think it's very apt because Kathy Hochul, the governor of New York, has assigned Letitia James as the special prosecutor to investigate the criminality of this case, alleged criminality.
00:26:41.000 And we have a clip of this special prosecutor, Letitia James, the most biased political prosecutor anywhere in the country, probably. 0.99
00:26:50.000 I mean, Chris Mays gives her a run for her money here in Arizona.
00:26:54.000 But listen to this clip.
00:26:55.000 This is, you know, it's an unrelated clip, but it shows who's now going to be looking into the criminality, alleged criminality here.
00:27:02.000 Sot 19.
00:27:03.000 Stand up to an administration which is too male, too pale, and too stale. 0.98
00:27:21.000 To mail! 0.94
00:27:31.000 I really wish you would go away silently because I can't listen to you anymore.
00:27:35.000 But so, this woman who is on record saying things like too male, too pale, too stale is now in charge of the investigation into seven fraternity brothers at Cornell. 0.97
00:27:47.000 So, that right there tells me she should recuse herself because she is incapable of being unbiased and letting justice go where the facts lead. 0.54
00:27:58.000 Heather.
00:27:58.000 It's just extraordinary.
00:28:00.000 I mean, we're seeing it's a repeat of the Duke.
00:28:03.000 Yes.
00:28:04.000 Rape case. 1.00
00:28:05.000 Explain that. 1.00
00:28:05.000 Explain that. 1.00
00:28:06.000 Yes. 0.51
00:28:08.000 Well, this was something that was, I hope, not an adumbration of the just grotesque violation of the law and of due process and legal procedure down in Duke, where a clearly psychotic black stripper was invited to a party at, I think, was it the rugby players? 0.77
00:28:34.000 Lacrosse. 0.76
00:28:35.000 Lacrosse.
00:28:36.000 Okay.
00:28:36.000 Yeah.
00:28:36.000 Lacrosse, right.
00:28:38.000 One of those preppy sports. 1.00
00:28:40.000 Two male and two pale is the problem. 1.00
00:28:44.000 And she was black. 1.00
00:28:45.000 They were white.
00:28:46.000 And she spun this story about completely brutal, violent assault on her.
00:28:55.000 None of the evidence bore this out the DNA evidence, the semen, you know, rape test kits none of it was borne out.
00:29:04.000 And yet the district attorney in, Durham, North Carolina, proceeded to go after these lacrosse players in spite of the clear exculpatory evidence.
00:29:20.000 And this was brought into our typical meta narrative that America is both racist and patriarchal.
00:29:31.000 And the real sin that these lacrosse players had committed was being too pale and too male.
00:29:38.000 Finally, Justice was done, but after years of struggle, they had their lives ruined, Heather.
00:29:45.000 They had their lives ruined.
00:29:46.000 Totally ruined.
00:29:48.000 Yeah.
00:29:48.000 And that's going to happen.
00:29:49.000 It's happening already here.
00:29:51.000 Well, there is a twist.
00:29:52.000 There is a twist, Heather.
00:29:54.000 One of these gentlemen is fighting back.
00:29:57.000 At least one.
00:29:58.000 At least one.
00:29:59.000 So let me just give the update for the audience, okay?
00:30:02.000 So Matthew Ingalls is one of these frat boys that has been accused.
00:30:07.000 And I think he was basically the main one that she was accused of.
00:30:10.000 I think he's male one.
00:30:11.000 Male one or male two? 0.97
00:30:13.000 He is accusing Jane Doe of raping him.
00:30:18.000 He is citing that he was too intoxicated to give consent.
00:30:22.000 Ingalls reportedly told Cornell investigators that he was too intoxicated from alcohol and ketamine to give consent.
00:30:28.000 Quote During Cornell's investigation, Ingalls said he was too intoxicated to consent and suggested that Jane Doe actually assaulted him, according to school records.
00:30:36.000 This is per ABC News.
00:30:39.000 I actually think this is great.
00:30:41.000 And I'll explain why.
00:30:42.000 Because the whole my body, my choice thing, it's funny how that works.
00:30:46.000 Okay. 1.00
00:30:47.000 So she chose to do drugs and alcohol. 0.98
00:30:49.000 She chose to snort ketamine. 0.99
00:30:51.000 She chose to partake in multiple threesomes. 1.00
00:30:54.000 But yet, so she has all her body, her choice.
00:30:57.000 But yet, it is made to be believed if you look at the protesters and all this stuff that it's the seven dudes from Cornell and the Fred House that took away her choice.
00:31:08.000 Make it make sense.
00:31:09.000 This is the complete double standard that we're supposed to banish traditional sexual mores that are actually.
00:31:17.000 The only thing that is going to prevent more of these drunken bacchanals, which is sexual modesty, even, God forbid, chastity, and male chivalry.
00:31:29.000 And we're supposed to believe that that's all oppressive and patriarchal, and that men and women, males and females, are absolutely equal on the sexual battleground field, and that the female libido is just as active, just as voracious, omnivorous as the male libido, all of which is completely untrue.
00:31:52.000 So the females are strong women together.
00:31:54.000 And yet, it turns out the way these campus rape narratives work is that it is still.
00:32:01.000 Completely on the male's responsibility.
00:32:04.000 He may be drunk, she may be drunk, but in traditional terms, and this is what the Ingalls suit is pushing back against, the male is responsible both for himself and for the female.
00:32:15.000 She's viewed as a helpless victim, somebody without any agency. 0.65
00:32:20.000 Now, I'd be willing to sign on to that idea. 1.00
00:32:24.000 You know, I'm not a big fan of strong women together. 1.00
00:32:27.000 I think there are very real psychological and physical. 0.97
00:32:32.000 And frankly, cognitive differences between males and females.
00:32:36.000 So let's go back to that because it would actually restore a thousand millennia long understandings about the complexity, the challenge, the difficulty, the mystery of sexual interaction.
00:32:54.000 But if we're not going to go back to that, then this double standard that exonerates females and makes males their protectors is a complete.
00:33:05.000 Hypocritical violation of the feminist norm.
00:33:11.000 So, you know, this is a narrative that is unfalsifiable.
00:33:15.000 We're told, Blake and Andrew, that we're supposed to believe survivors, but only when they're claiming their victimhood.
00:33:24.000 If they say they're not victims, then you just chalk that up, you know, as I say, to the rape culture and they're being brainwashed into thinking that they're not victims.
00:33:36.000 I completely agree.
00:33:38.000 And I want to make sure we get through the facts because I, this is why I say there's no white hats here.
00:33:43.000 There's no, there's no heroes.
00:33:44.000 Everybody acted poorly and it's, it's terrible to see. 0.96
00:33:49.000 But here's the facts Jane Doe admitted to her sorority big sister that she was acting, the rumors of her acting like a, she used the word slut, were unfortunately true. 0.84
00:34:01.000 She texted one of the men she eventually accused of gang rape that none of the sexual stuff was illegal. 0.87
00:34:07.000 And honestly, I really like being with you and Matt.
00:34:10.000 Okay.
00:34:11.000 10 days later, she was so excited to go back to the same frat house where she was allegedly assaulted for the Halloween party that, Hart, I'll bring my SIGs tomorrow.
00:34:22.000 Okay.
00:34:23.000 That's pretty weird.
00:34:25.000 And then she only decides after she gets disinvited by the president of that frat that it so I guess it happened October 19th, the alleged incident. 0.79
00:34:35.000 And then on November 3rd, she changed her story to, I was raped. 0.87
00:34:39.000 Okay.
00:34:40.000 I love the way the New York Times, like, by November 3rd, she appears to have concluded she was solved.
00:34:45.000 She finally got to the point.
00:34:47.000 And now I understand sometimes things happen, there's a processing that happens there.
00:34:53.000 But it doesn't, and I think this is the point where you can really help us here, Heather.
00:34:59.000 It feels like, based on the facts, she regretted this sexual orgy thing that she did.
00:35:07.000 And then she, in order to save face, in order to help her reputation, she changed her story. 0.90
00:35:12.000 And she's going to ruin seven boys' lives.
00:35:16.000 I think a big picture, though, that we want to drive home is if she successfully pulls this off, if this leads to criminal charges, if this leads to changes in law, if this brings back the old Biden, Obama era, Title IX policies. 0.99
00:35:30.000 Heather, two minutes here.
00:35:32.000 You should lay out what are we bringing back if we allow this story to grow out of control with the narrative they're trying to sell us?
00:35:38.000 Well, you know, if males had any sense, they would start acting sensibly themselves because they are going to be facing and probably still are.
00:35:49.000 A complete miscarriage, a perversion of justice.
00:35:53.000 We're going to go back to these awful tribunals where the male is not allowed to confront his accuser.
00:36:02.000 He's not allowed cross examination.
00:36:04.000 He may not even be told of the charges against him.
00:36:07.000 This is throwing aside hundreds of years of one of the greatest accomplishments of Western civilization, which is due process of law.
00:36:17.000 So males are going to be under constant threat.
00:36:21.000 Of having their future lives destroyed.
00:36:24.000 Here's what they should do if they had any sense.
00:36:27.000 Don't get involved with a girl who's drunk, and when you're drunk as well, walk her home after a date, kiss her goodnight, give her some flowers, and walk away. 1.00
00:36:38.000 The same applies to females. 1.00
00:36:40.000 This is why this is so ludicrous. 0.79
00:36:42.000 If the Title IX rape administrators really believed that what was going on on campuses is rape and not, as you say, Blake, simply regretted sex. 0.98
00:36:55.000 Regretted hookup sex, drunken hookup sex, where the female afterwards thinks, gee, he doesn't appear as moved by this as I am. 0.91
00:37:03.000 You know, I'm going to play the rape card. 0.78
00:37:06.000 If the Title IX administrators believed that females were operating in this tsunami of sexual violence, they would tell the females do not get drunk, get in bed with a guy who you may or may not know very well, and take off your clothes. 0.84
00:37:21.000 Instead, dance with the guy and go home, go to your bed at night.
00:37:25.000 That would end this epidemic overnight. 0.98
00:37:29.000 There would be not a single rape left because this is drunken, regretted hookup sex, as you say. 1.00
00:37:36.000 And the fact is, if it is going on and females are so stupid to walk into it anyway, they don't believe they shouldn't be on college campus. 1.00
00:37:45.000 Heather McDonald, the great Heather McDonald. 1.00
00:37:47.000 They all need Jesus.
00:37:48.000 That's the takeaway here.
00:37:50.000 Thank you so much, Heather.
00:37:51.000 Thanks, Andrew.
00:37:55.000 I talk about jobs and industries on this show all the time, but I didn't expect.
00:37:59.000 To find an entire skills trade community on TikTok.
00:38:02.000 Plumbers, electricians, builders, and contractors sharing the work they do every day.
00:38:07.000 And it went way beyond tips and tricks.
00:38:09.000 People were sharing their craft, connecting with local contractors, and talking about how they were building their businesses and growing their teams.
00:38:16.000 It opened my eyes to how people in the trades are using TikTok to share their skills, make connections, and find new opportunities.
00:38:22.000 I remember thinking, this is exactly what we need more of people sharing what they know and creating opportunities for others.
00:38:28.000 And I never expected to find a community like this.
00:38:31.000 That's the thing about TikTok.
00:38:33.000 You start with something you know, and suddenly you're finding a whole new side of it that surprises you and leaves you wanting to know more.
00:38:39.000 Your next discovery is waiting for you on TikTok.
00:38:41.000 Learn more at TikTok.comslash discover more.
00:38:47.000 We are going to be talking.
00:38:48.000 This is an idea that we've floated, but we haven't been able to connect all the dots.
00:38:52.000 But there is definitely correlation.
00:38:54.000 The question is, is there causation?
00:38:56.000 And what we're talking about is USAID has been defunded, deconstructed.
00:39:01.000 It was one of the great accomplishments of the early Trump 2.0.
00:39:06.000 And then a funny thing started happening.
00:39:08.000 All throughout South America, right wing leaders were getting elected in places that you wouldn't expect.
00:39:15.000 And we covered this yesterday.
00:39:17.000 Here to unpack this and to see if there is causation is Mike Benz, one of the guys that is the best at connecting the dots and best at following the money trails.
00:39:27.000 Mike, welcome back to the show, my friend.
00:39:31.000 You have called Brazil the Truman Show because it was basically astroturfed in so many ways.
00:39:38.000 A lot of funding that you have tracked down.
00:39:40.000 Tell us what you mean when it comes to Brazil and USAID.
00:39:44.000 In 2018, when Bolsonaro swung into office in October of that year, there was a massive effort to basically stop his ability to govern and then to ultimately fund his ouster in the form of Lula and the Workers' Party that stretched for the first two years of the Trump administration and then the first two years of the Biden administration.
00:40:11.000 And it is really a clean example of the foreign policy establishment not only being able to use a government agency to hijack U.S. foreign policy, but to do it behind the president's back because the way USAID is structured allows it to be even more flexible, deniable, and less oversight than even the Central Intelligence Agency.
00:40:34.000 So if you want to get rid of a president in a foreign country, USAID is usually the best way, and I can walk through all the ways that was done in Brazil.
00:40:44.000 Yeah.
00:40:44.000 And I mean, I think that's it.
00:40:46.000 It's almost like a black budget, right?
00:40:48.000 You hear about this with intel agencies.
00:40:50.000 USAID had these sort of ambiguous titles for it.
00:40:53.000 Oh, we're helping civil society.
00:40:56.000 Civil society.
00:40:57.000 Like, lay out for us like that.
00:40:58.000 Like, when they say we're funding civil society efforts in Brazil, how does that translate to a politically legible outcome we could recognize here?
00:41:07.000 Yeah.
00:41:08.000 I want to first address what you just said about the opaqueness of it.
00:41:15.000 And then I'll hit the civil society front.
00:41:17.000 Yes.
00:41:17.000 There's something that's really important, I think, for people to understand about the technical difference between the intelligence community and USAID, because it's something that is kind of a very nefarious underpinning of how USAID was able to get away with this.
00:41:32.000 When the Central Intelligence Agency started getting in trouble in the 1960s and 70s and went through a number of reforms to its processes and practices, something called a presidential finding.
00:41:46.000 Became required, which meant that every single covert action that the CIA does has to be approved in writing by the President of the United States.
00:41:56.000 That way, there's no miscommunication about the President not authorizing a CIA covert action.
00:42:02.000 USAID does not have that constraint on it.
00:42:06.000 So, if USAID wants to do the equivalent of a CIA covert action but not tell the President about it, they can do that.
00:42:15.000 And that's what What really distinguishes them both from state and CIA.
00:42:20.000 So they were really able to go behind President Trump's back when it came to the situation in Brazil for the first two years of Bolsonaro's term and then went haywire during the Biden era.
00:42:33.000 But on the civil society front, civil society is a kind of play, if you will.
00:42:41.000 It preys on obviously the word civil, but really what's distinct from is governmental.
00:42:47.000 So just in the same way that you have sort of criminal and civil.
00:42:51.000 Court and criminal and civil procedure.
00:42:55.000 When you're dealing with NGOs, when you're dealing with non governmental organizations that sweep across all the different layers of a society, they call that civil society to distinguish it from the public sector and to distinguish it from for profit companies.
00:43:11.000 In every USAID operation, there's something that they refer to as a kind of whole of, well, they call it the whole of society framework, which is about mobilizing government actors, for profit private sector actors, non profit civil society actors, and media.
00:43:28.000 And media can either be for profit or civil society, depending on whether it's a for profit or non profit.
00:43:35.000 And so you get all four of those categories of institutions together, and you have virtually every institution in society.
00:43:44.000 And that is a standard part of the playbook.
00:43:46.000 And I can walk through, if you'd like more detail, about how that whole of society apparatus was mobilized to capture civil society in Brazil.
00:43:56.000 Well, yeah.
00:43:56.000 And I do want to get in those details.
00:43:59.000 You're basically saying after Bolsonaro was elected, USAID mobilized through Brazilian civil society, pumping money and strategy.
00:44:09.000 I mean, are American officials flying down to Brazil, orchestrating this, architecting this?
00:44:16.000 Is it that direct, saying, hey, we're going to get the left wing back in power and here's how we're going to do it?
00:44:21.000 Well, it depends on what year you're talking about, I suppose.
00:44:26.000 For 2018, 2019, 2020, during the Trump years, this was done through USAID funding.
00:44:33.000 The National Endowment for Democracy, the Wilson Center, the Atlantic Council, the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, and a raft of the, what's something called the Consortium for Elections and Political Process Strengthening, CEPS, which are three of those that I just named are giant umbrella NGOs that themselves fund 20 to 30 sub NGOs underneath them.
00:44:59.000 For example, in Brazil, the CEPS network, I think, stretched to about 50 disinformation.
00:45:06.000 Related NGOs themselves, the TSE court, the Alexandra de Moraes court.
00:45:12.000 I believe four of the nine flaggers on the court that had an inside WhatsApp line directly to Moraes were funded by USAID.
00:45:24.000 The concept to form a task force on disinformation out of the TSE, the Alexandra de Moraes court, was basically.
00:45:35.000 Invented by USAID grantees who ended up making up, I think, like something between 40 and 50 percent of the initial task force members.
00:45:47.000 They became USAID, which was funding all the different NGOs that trained and staffed and flagged all of the disinformation online.
00:45:59.000 And then I literally testified in front of the Brazilian Senate Foreign Relations Committee and showed pictures from the USAID grantee websites of them training.
00:46:08.000 Alexandra de Moraes on disinformation.
00:46:12.000 They actually sent some of their delegates, including the same people they used to censor the 2020 election in the United States, including the Stanford Internet Observatory, the Atlanta Council Digital Forensics Research Lab, who were all sent down there and made basically members of the court task force.
00:46:33.000 You had insane situations where USAID was getting feedback from its grantees about how it was training the judges, and USAID.
00:46:45.000 I'm trying to think about what I'm at liberty to say.
00:46:50.000 There are documents that you can FOIA that would show how USAID would instruct its grantees to actually remove the USAID logo and change its guidance to the TSE court to remove references to Bolsonaro in its targeting of censorship because they were afraid that these USAID grantee directives would leak and it would show how politicized and how top down it was from the U.S. government.
00:47:17.000 That sounds damning right there.
00:47:18.000 I think it's safe to say, Mike, you are the best.
00:47:22.000 There is around at connecting dots that nobody else is connecting.
00:47:26.000 It's crazy what you found, the way you've dissected the British censorship apparatus, especially.
00:47:31.000 I was so impressed by when you were laying out, oh, this is how the UK government actually funds these orgs, and then they lobby to censor people in the US, and you get that transatlantic traffic, so to speak, where that's how they control speech.
00:47:45.000 They go to Britain when they can't do it in America, they go to America when they can't do it in America.
00:47:48.000 Well, and fundamentally, I feel different about the transatlantic thing than I do about the Western Hemisphere thing, because this is our hemisphere.
00:47:55.000 That's how I look at it.
00:47:57.000 And I'm a non interventionist guy, but this is why what I think Marco is doing throughout Latin America is really, really important.
00:48:05.000 But what you're saying is that there was a concerted effort, right at the break, you said this, to remove USAID markers, to remove mentions of Bolsonaro, because they knew what they were doing was blatantly, brazenly political and biased.
00:48:19.000 Yes.
00:48:20.000 Explain that.
00:48:22.000 Well, USAID is technically everything it does moves through.
00:48:27.000 501c3 charity type organizations, NGOs.
00:48:31.000 It's barred from being able to provide support to certain other types.
00:48:34.000 It can give grants to certain private companies, but it's supposed to be apolitical.
00:48:42.000 It's by charter supposed to be foreign assistance.
00:48:45.000 And it's not. 1.00
00:48:46.000 Even though, right.
00:48:47.000 I mean, it's laughable.
00:48:50.000 It reminds me of a sort of acme cartoon where, I don't know, someone gives Wile E. Coyote a present and there's a bomb inside or that sort of thing.
00:49:00.000 I mean, even John Bolton's.
00:49:02.000 Parting gift from USAID when he was the policy and budget director in the 1980s was a USAID hand grenade.
00:49:09.000 If you recall, he held that up on Piers Morgan.
00:49:12.000 It was a hand grenade from USAID with his name engraved.
00:49:15.000 And I think that's just a very apt way to understand the agency's operations in disguise.
00:49:21.000 But in Brazil, what you had was, now again, Brazil is the second largest, sort of, you know, Andrew, what you were saying about the importance of the Western Hemisphere and various.
00:49:33.000 You know, regions within it.
00:49:36.000 Brazil is the second largest population in the Western Hemisphere.
00:49:40.000 It's the second largest military.
00:49:41.000 It has some of the world's largest reserves of water, of minerals.
00:49:46.000 It sits on the Amazon, the lungs of the world.
00:49:49.000 It has a huge amount of hydrocarbons.
00:49:52.000 It's the, I think, world's largest producer of beef and other food products.
00:49:58.000 And what it does in terms of its trade has a significant impact both on the U.S. and on U.S. businesses.
00:50:08.000 And Financial firms, in terms of their investments, because there is just a lot of money to swing around that hangs in the balance.
00:50:18.000 And, you know, famously, Lula has transitioned his economy in significant part to the Chinese rather than to the Americans.
00:50:26.000 But I think, given the overlap between sort of the Chinese diplomatic and financial sphere and many of the folks around the Biden foreign policy and national security world, there's a weird natural synergy there in terms of what happened.
00:50:41.000 But in terms of, I mean, obviously the U.S. has been involved in Brazil since at least the 1960s when there was the sort of military coup that the U.S. played a fairly significant role in.
00:50:55.000 But what we've seen over the past decade is a kind of reversal of the Cold War, where instead of having, you know, sort of right wing regime changes of left wing administrations for oil, You have a kind of reverse where you have left wing regime changes of right wing governments for like clean energy.
00:51:22.000 It's like for the opposite of oil.
00:51:25.000 Mike, just because we only have a couple minutes here first, so of course we did dismantle USAID.
00:51:31.000 That's what's led to this speculation.
00:51:33.000 We've been able to uncork a right wing revolution, as it were, throughout Latin America.
00:51:38.000 Is there anything additional that the Trump administration should be doing to make sure this doesn't come back if we get another Democrat government or just to?
00:51:46.000 Remove remaining pieces of this apparatus where they might exist in the DC blob or around the world?
00:51:53.000 And then finally, after answering that, if you have a second, do we have to watch out for anything in Brazil?
00:51:58.000 It looks like odds are very good the runoff will go Bolsonaro's way, but are there tricks that the Lula regime might use to do something a little sinister and shady?
00:52:10.000 First, I think on your first question, I think naming and shaming and putting things on a jumbotron actually has a very powerful chilling effect, even without the permanence of legislation.
00:52:21.000 Even without an executive order or, I don't know, some compelling lawsuit outcome that legally bars that from happening again.
00:52:29.000 When people see their predecessors getting dunked on and posterized, they don't want to be that next person when they go into government and be kind of the next person in line as soon as another four years goes by to be dunked on.
00:52:48.000 And I do think that having transparency around the USAID files, being able to publish them publicly is of.
00:52:56.000 Absolutely critical importance.
00:52:58.000 And in Are you working on that, Mike?
00:53:02.000 I'm I am, and I'm trying to.
00:53:08.000 I don't know what I'm at liberty to say around this, but it is it has it has to come out.
00:53:14.000 This can't be good.
00:53:17.000 So, yeah, that is my primary focus right now.
00:53:23.000 And I hope the administration can understand the importance of.
00:53:29.000 Making this public rather than something that has to be like FOIA'd six weeks from now.
00:53:37.000 Do you think that deconstructing USAID is one of the chief accomplishments of the Trump 2.0 administration?
00:53:44.000 Absolutely.
00:53:45.000 And a huge part of that, which kind of gets to the second part of Blake's question, is it connects to everything else.
00:53:53.000 USAID did not act as an island, it coordinated with the State Department, it coordinated with the National Security Council, it coordinated with the Department of Work, it coordinated with the European Commission.
00:54:03.000 It coordinated with NATO and the Brits and the German Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the like.
00:54:11.000 It was a shadow diplomacy element.
00:54:14.000 And so, removing that doesn't just get rid of the agency itself.
00:54:18.000 It gets rid of a lot of touch points into a lot of rogue, completely independent actors on U.S. national security and foreign policy.
00:54:27.000 But what I would say is the one thing that does concern me is if you take away that.
00:54:35.000 Such a powerful soft power element, the compulsion to replace that with hard power through having the military do what used to be done, having the military do ham fistedly what used to be done relatively slickly by USAID has its own set of drawbacks.
00:54:56.000 Do you think, and that makes perfect sense, we've got 20 seconds here, are you concerned about the runoff on October 25th in Brazil?
00:55:04.000 I have concerns.
00:55:06.000 The TSE court has a tremendous amount of power.
00:55:09.000 You know, they could, in theory, do what was done in Romania and what was threatened to be done in Germany, where, you know, they could technically find some reason to try to annul or to try to mass ban everything.
00:55:22.000 But I think at this point, the diplomatic pressure would be extremely intense and it may be better to go gracefully.
00:55:28.000 Mike Benz, Executive Director, Foundation for Freedom Online.
00:55:31.000 Thank you, my friend.
00:55:32.000 Very, very excellent reporting.
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00:56:25.000 We know what we know, obviously, about whatever the Russians have provided, which is it seems that there was a worker at the lab that was infected, and there's concern that that, you know, could have spread at least internally. 0.71
00:56:37.000 So you've seen them do quarantines and deaths of that nature.
00:56:41.000 There's very limited travel between the U.S. and Russia, obviously, but like anything else, something like that gets out and could quickly spread.
00:56:48.000 So we're watching and monitoring.
00:56:49.000 Closely, I don't think it's cause for alarm, but it is cause for focus and a cause to just keep an eye on it.
00:56:55.000 And we're doing that, yeah.
00:56:57.000 So, a lot of you have probably heard about this plague outbreak.
00:57:01.000 Well, we got to figure out how bad it is, how concerned we should be out of Russia.
00:57:06.000 But if you were like me, are we going to have another plague?
00:57:09.000 You're literally having PTSD, you're getting like a twitch, mysterious disease, covet all over style country, lab outbreak by yeah, tyrannical dictatorship.
00:57:19.000 Is this what we're up against?
00:57:20.000 Um, so back on the show, it's been.
00:57:22.000 Frankly, it's been too long.
00:57:24.000 Is a dear friend of the show, a dear friend of Charlie's, and that's Dr. Robert Malone.
00:57:28.000 We're honored to have him back.
00:57:29.000 Dr. Malone, welcome.
00:57:31.000 So good to see you.
00:57:32.000 You have been writing up a storm on this.
00:57:34.000 I knew that you were the exact right person to give our audience the actual truth, not the clickbait, not to give any of that.
00:57:42.000 We want to know what this is.
00:57:44.000 And you hear plague and you get goosebumps.
00:57:47.000 You're wondering, how bad is this going to be?
00:57:50.000 So the floor is yours, sir.
00:57:52.000 Tell us everything you know.
00:57:53.000 Well, let's talk about the fear.
00:57:56.000 And this is, you know, existential fear that's being promoted by people.
00:58:01.000 It has to do with the modern media ecosystem and fear cells.
00:58:05.000 There's no question about it.
00:58:07.000 So let's talk about plague in general.
00:58:11.000 It is notorious for the deaths, Black death in the Middle Ages, but that's bubonic plague.
00:58:17.000 It's spread by fleas.
00:58:18.000 Pneumonic plague is actually not that infectious, which is perhaps what this young 28 year old suffered from, laboratory technician.
00:58:29.000 And so this is really not, even Mr. Rubio overstated a bit.
00:58:36.000 This is not a big worry for rapid spread.
00:58:42.000 What this institute is, is a facility that is involved in an extensive Russian surveillance network.
00:58:51.000 For Yersinia pestis, bubonic or plague in general, and its primary focus is on Mongolia.
00:58:59.000 It has nothing to do with the Ukrainian border, and it does turn out that there was just a series of isolations of plague in Mongolia through August.
00:59:14.000 So, those isolates where there's been an outbreak in marmots, among other things, and a couple of cases of bubonic plague where people have been infected by.
00:59:26.000 So they went, they did isolation and monitoring, they came back with strains, those were processed.
00:59:35.000 This laboratory where Daria Shipilova worked as a laboratory technician was the one, and a laboratory technician specifically working on plague, was the one that would then process the samples from the primary isolates in Mongolia.
00:59:52.000 So that's the context.
00:59:55.000 And I'll tell you just the punchline right now.
00:59:59.000 All of my analysis, deep dive, applied artificial intelligence algorithms, et cetera, et cetera, all says that this is just some single person event.
01:00:14.000 There were 200 primary contacts, so first point of contact, because she was in hospitals for four days.
01:00:21.000 And all of those have been isolated, and they're now at the end of the period of typical incubation for pneumonic plague.
01:00:30.000 And there is no new cases that have been announced.
01:00:33.000 There has been some quarantine activity in five hospitals in the region, presumably because the people she would have been in contact with would have been hospital workers.
01:00:45.000 And that makes sense.
01:00:46.000 Everything I'm seeing is appropriate infectious disease control protocol applied in an area that has significant expertise and some history with plague because of the endemic plague that's present.
01:01:04.000 Within Mongolia.
01:01:06.000 And what's odd here is a few other things having to do with the communications and the statements made that they're sure that the Institute has investigated itself and it's sure that there was no breach of protocol and that she did not get infected by anything she was working with in the Institute.
01:01:28.000 But they're not revealing any PCR results, they're not revealing any sequence results.
01:01:34.000 So, the things that would allow the outside world to cross check this story are not available.
01:01:41.000 And that's typical in these kinds of situations there is some degree of cover up by the folks that are closest to the event because they don't want to take ownership.
01:01:52.000 You know, this is an authoritarian environment. 0.88
01:01:54.000 And if you're in charge of that institute and this happened under your watch and it's a black guy to the republic, there's probably going to be career consequences. 0.99
01:02:06.000 The default action always in this kind of situation is to deny, deny, deny. 1.00
01:02:11.000 And that happens here in the United States too.
01:02:14.000 How long have we been talking about, let's say, Ralph Barak's lab?
01:02:18.000 So I think we can't cast stones in this one.
01:02:22.000 So you do mention they're not having ideal communications.
01:02:26.000 Even if you're pretty confident this is not a reason for us to panic yet, is there any justification for this to be something we should worry about?
01:02:34.000 This is so pneumonic plague, it is significantly more fatal than bubonic plague.
01:02:41.000 It can spread person to person through respiratory droplets, even if.
01:02:45.000 It has a hard time doing so.
01:02:47.000 Is this something we should worry that a state actor, Russia, China, Iran, any random country, might be working on to make it as a bioweapon something that we should look out for?
01:02:59.000 So there is a long history that extends to World War II and really before that.
01:03:04.000 But it was attempted to be weaponized and it was deployed as a plague by the Japanese forces. 0.64
01:03:12.000 I think it was in China that they did it. 0.91
01:03:14.000 So every major nation that was involved in. 0.94
01:03:19.000 Bio warfare development historically has had a plague program.
01:03:25.000 Most of them have also developed plague vaccine candidates, and that includes the US and the UK.
01:03:30.000 I don't know anything about Israel.
01:03:33.000 Israel has not signed the bio warfare treaty, Russia has.
01:03:37.000 So that treaty has virtually no teeth.
01:03:40.000 There's no way that the UN or the group that I'm affiliated with can march in there to that part of Siberia. 0.98
01:03:47.000 That's probably a good thing for me.
01:03:50.000 And go do their own investigations.
01:03:53.000 They have to rely on Russia to share information.
01:03:57.000 And all they can do, all the Secretary of State can do is to ask nicely that they share information.
01:04:04.000 But should you be worried?
01:04:06.000 The only reason you would be worried is if you happened to be in that particular 600 person town and you were somebody that knew this unfortunate young woman and she had coughed directly on you.
01:04:19.000 That would be about where you would have to have some concern.
01:04:23.000 So, Dr. Malone, it looks like, you know, there was a bunch of technicians or scientists that were quarantined in a lab.
01:04:31.000 There's also a rumor of a broken tube, a test tube of some sort in this site, but I'm getting conflicting reports.
01:04:39.000 Have you been able to confirm that?
01:04:40.000 Because to Blake's point.
01:04:43.000 That's a single report from basically a local freelance news site.
01:04:55.000 That kind of broke the story and broke the story on X.
01:04:59.000 And so that was part of their narrative.
01:05:02.000 That's been contradicted.
01:05:04.000 The laboratory has said that whatever she died of, it had nothing to do with anything she was working with, et cetera, et cetera.
01:05:13.000 One, there's two, as far as I'm concerned, viable hypotheses going here.
01:05:18.000 One is that she was processing some new isolate that was particularly pathogenic and she didn't have good laboratory hygiene for a BSL 3 laboratory.
01:05:29.000 Or something happened.
01:05:32.000 The other is that she had been traveling and she might have traveled into regions where plague is endemic, but that wouldn't explain pneumonic plague.
01:05:41.000 So I think we're pretty tight down on something happened in the laboratory.
01:05:47.000 The laboratory probably knows about it.
01:05:49.000 And by the way, most of those quarantines were not from the laboratory, they were from the hospitals because she was out into the community for four days without a diagnosis until she died.
01:06:01.000 So that means that she was in contact with a lot of hospital people, not so much her laboratory colleagues.
01:06:07.000 Dr. Malone, when you say that if she was out in, let's say she made contact with some marmot, right, you're saying that couldn't have been the cause of this?
01:06:18.000 Because that would have typically what that would have led to is getting infected by fleas.
01:06:25.000 That's the pattern in that region.
01:06:27.000 And that results in bubonic plague, not pneumonic plague.
01:06:31.000 So, what we do know in terms of her proximity to plague is that there was this September.
01:06:40.000 Campaign to identify new isolates from Mongolia in the region where it's now emerged because of marmots crossing over a mountain range.
01:06:50.000 And those samples would have gone to another laboratory and then been isolated, processed, and passed off.
01:07:00.000 And she is reasonably likely to be the one that would receive those samples.
01:07:06.000 So it could be that she experienced contact in some way.
01:07:11.000 With a primary sample out of Mongolia that might have been more pathogenic.
01:07:16.000 That is a pure speculation hypothesis, but it fits all the investigations.
01:07:22.000 And we have had to dive deeply into Russian literature, thank heavens for Russian translation programs, in order to get to this.
01:07:31.000 We've been through many, you know, the scientific literature there, the publications from this institute, et cetera, to put together this story.
01:07:39.000 So, just to kind of make sure I'm summarizing and hearing you right, this is in a region with a lot of plague, right?
01:07:46.000 This laboratory exists in animals.
01:07:49.000 In animals.
01:07:50.000 But it's, yeah.
01:07:51.000 So this laboratory exists to essentially research the new isolates, as you call them, new variants of plague that may be existing within the animal population.
01:08:01.000 They were working on this.
01:08:02.000 This laboratory tech was a plague tech technician. 0.96
01:08:08.000 She gets it.
01:08:10.000 By the way, pneumonic plague, apparently, the death rate is like 71%.
01:08:14.000 71%.
01:08:14.000 Yeah, apparently 100% if you don't get antibiotics in.
01:08:18.000 24 hours.
01:08:19.000 The United States, we get less than seven cases a year, mostly bubonic plague, and less than 8% is pneumonic plague, and no documented person to person spread since 1924.
01:08:31.000 So there's a lot of this, this does not feel like coronavirus, but there is a lot of, there is a lot of secrecy.
01:08:39.000 And it, you know, you hear, you think of Chernobyl, you think of the way that Russia dealt with that whole thing.
01:08:46.000 I would, I would rather the secrecy, I think the, you know, the usual, the easiest explanation is incompetence.
01:08:53.000 Versus conspiracy.
01:08:54.000 And I think we've got a lot of incompetence in messaging right there.
01:08:58.000 The model that I think we're all afraid of, Dr. Malone, is the Chernobyl incident.
01:09:04.000 Already the memes online, it's like, you know, you see Putin going, we've got it all under control, everybody.
01:09:10.000 It's fine.
01:09:10.000 Nothing to see here.
01:09:11.000 Meanwhile, Chernobyl's melting down. 0.93
01:09:13.000 And that is the model of the Russian state, right? 0.96
01:09:16.000 That they keep things very tight lipped, under wraps.
01:09:19.000 Things could be spiraling out of control and they won't be on.
01:09:22.000 And in Russia, they often do.
01:09:23.000 Yeah, and in Russia, they often do spiral out of control.
01:09:26.000 It is the totalitarian.
01:09:27.000 Anytime, I mean, there's a fundamental lesson here.
01:09:30.000 Anytime you have central control and planning, and you still have centralized control and planning in modern Russia, even though it's not former Soviet Russia, anytime you have that, you have a huge gap between what is the ground truth and what is the official narrative because it's got to filter up through multiple places, and everybody that's touching that information has a stake in it.
01:09:55.000 And they don't want to look bad.
01:09:57.000 And so by the time it gets up to officialdom in Moscow and the official public health agency, I think it's Rasporto Nabazar or something like that.
01:10:09.000 I can't pronounce it.
01:10:12.000 It's been highly filtered and it really doesn't reflect what's actually known at the ground level, which is what that initial report was from a local reporting ground truth, such as, for instance, that apparently the physicians in the area are all abuzz about plague.
01:10:31.000 So, the official party line is this was not plague.
01:10:36.000 It was not a laboratory accident.
01:10:38.000 It had nothing to do with anything that she was working with.
01:10:42.000 And I think that we're going to see that become a modified limited hangout and we're going to see it updated gradually over the next few weeks.
01:10:49.000 Well, so you talk about the beginning of this interview how fear sells, right?
01:10:54.000 I think there's no greater sinner in this regard than CNN.
01:10:59.000 Blake has a colorful life.
01:11:01.000 It's their business model.
01:11:02.000 Yeah.
01:11:03.000 Do you remember when that plane disappeared?
01:11:05.000 The Malaysia plane.
01:11:06.000 Yeah.
01:11:06.000 And they covered this for like six months, like one story every day.
01:11:11.000 Like the mysterious.
01:11:12.000 I mean, anyway, so this is.
01:11:14.000 I'm going to play a clip from CNN.
01:11:15.000 I apologize to the audience in advance, but I want you to respond to it because they're saying the facts just don't really add up.
01:11:22.000 You seem to be countering that.
01:11:24.000 Let's just go ahead and play it.
01:11:25.000 Stop 14.
01:11:26.000 Russia so far is saying this is contained.
01:11:28.000 How can the United States actually verify that?
01:11:33.000 So, the U.S. would be using intelligence assets available to them and obviously trying to work with the Russian government because you're right, things don't make sense.
01:11:39.000 But it's the Russians' constant way of managing these things that causes more problems than anything else.
01:11:44.000 Well, the Kremlin's saying don't give in to speculation. 0.89
01:11:46.000 The vial theory, for example, if this is a worker trained to handle plague, the bacteria the doctor just mentioned, and it broke, they would have known to immediately been decontamination, go into isolation, and would have prophylactically been given these antibiotics and wouldn't have stumbled in the hospital four days later.
01:12:00.000 At least that's sort of what's coming out now or something along those timelines.
01:12:03.000 So, the facts just don't really add up right now.
01:12:05.000 And that's the problem there's more answers or there's more.
01:12:07.000 Questions than there are answers.
01:12:09.000 All right.
01:12:10.000 So there's more questions than there are answers.
01:12:11.000 Do you feel like you've got the answers now, Dr. Malone?
01:12:15.000 So that's a great example of substituting opinion for facts.
01:12:21.000 And the facts are actually available.
01:12:24.000 So what you basically had there was an acknowledgement that CNN is not actually doing journalism because they could have done the same work that we did.
01:12:36.000 And it's just myself and my wife working here out of Madison, Virginia.
01:12:40.000 Publishing stuff and running our algorithm.
01:12:43.000 So, CNN, what can I say?
01:12:48.000 They should up their game, but there's no reason to because fear cells and these kinds of insinuations seem to be their stock in trade, as well as for many of the other mainstream media.
01:13:01.000 I'm calling these people media entrepreneurs.
01:13:04.000 They're basically selling clicks, likes, and follows in whatever way they can.
01:13:10.000 And I think we should probably, being a Christian broadcast, We should try to extend empathy to these poor souls.
01:13:17.000 They're trapped in this ecosystem.
01:13:19.000 Blake, do you feel like you've got empathy for CNN?
01:13:21.000 Are you there yet?
01:13:23.000 No, no.
01:13:26.000 I'm a little pressed too, but we do need to be Christian about this as much as possible.
01:13:33.000 Well, so I think that was important, though, to play because that does sort of outline how this has been covered and why a lot of us are like, uh oh, is this COVID 2.0?
01:13:42.000 Is this a Chernobyl like incident in Russia?
01:13:46.000 I feel satisfied that.
01:13:48.000 It's not COVID.
01:13:49.000 It's not coronavirus.
01:13:50.000 It doesn't spread nearly as easily.
01:13:51.000 We haven't had a documented case since 1924.
01:13:54.000 But that is the important piece.
01:13:56.000 Now, it seems like this worker, the test tube, even just from that clip, this test tube theory did something, did a vial break in the lab.
01:14:05.000 That seems to indicate it probably didn't, right?
01:14:08.000 Because to his point, if it would have broken in the lab, she would have been treated prophylactically in advance with these antibodies, and she wasn't.
01:14:17.000 She stumbled into a hospital four days later.
01:14:20.000 Does that follow the reason?
01:14:23.000 I agree, but that doesn't mean there wasn't some breach.
01:14:27.000 And so the official party line is there wasn't, that everything was followed appropriately.
01:14:33.000 But the Wuhan Institute of Virology insisted that they had fully followed protocol also, and there wasn't any chance that it was a lab leak.
01:14:44.000 So this is always what happens.
01:14:46.000 The default response of an institute, by the way, that in this case investigated itself, is going to be to say, no, no, no, we didn't do anything wrong.
01:14:55.000 And whether it was some small aerosol.
01:15:01.000 You know, that doesn't make sense.
01:15:03.000 It doesn't make sense that she would breathe an aerosol because she should have been anything that she did should have been operated within a biosafety cabinet.
01:15:13.000 So, Dr. Malone, we have still doesn't make sense.
01:15:15.000 Yeah, we have 90 seconds here, so it's going to be quick.
01:15:18.000 But, you know, pneumonia can kill within 24 hours.
01:15:22.000 So, we're saying four days later.
01:15:25.000 Actually, what is the inciting incident?
01:15:27.000 And, you know, does that lead you to believe maybe she got sick outside of the lab?
01:15:32.000 Four days.
01:15:34.000 That's the other hypothesis.
01:15:35.000 And if it was a natural infection, it probably would have been bubonic plague.
01:15:41.000 And we still don't know for sure that this was Yersinia pestis.
01:15:46.000 It could be some other respiratory virus or pathogen.
01:15:49.000 That's what the official party line is this is not plague, even though everybody there is saying plague.
01:15:55.000 So the way to solve this is with PCR, which they have.
01:16:00.000 They have advanced capabilities.
01:16:01.000 I've documented those advanced capabilities, and yet they haven't said anything.
01:16:06.000 Diddly squat about PCR.
01:16:08.000 So that's kind of strange.
01:16:11.000 Yeah.
01:16:11.000 And there are absolutely gaps in the story.
01:16:14.000 CNN is right about that.
01:16:16.000 But I think the gaps are most easily explained as the usual kind of incompetence in messaging and failure of transparency, which, once again, I don't think we're in any position to cast stones on that front.
01:16:33.000 Fair enough.
01:16:34.000 Dr. Robert Malone, thank you so much for this.
01:16:38.000 Just, I think, sage wisdom that you've delivered here.
01:16:41.000 God bless you.
01:16:42.000 Thank you for coming back on the show.
01:16:43.000 It's great to see you.
01:16:44.000 Thank you, sir.
01:16:45.000 Keep calm and carry on.
01:16:47.000 You as well.
01:16:52.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.