The Glenn Beck Program - Ep 257 ｜ Undercover FBI Agent Battled a DEMONIC Underworld ｜ Scott Payne

00:00:00.000 and now a blaze media podcast hello america you know we've been fighting every single day we push

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00:00:48.880 how worried should we be about white supremacy in america my next guest is a retired fbi special

00:00:57.260 agent who earned the title hillbilly donnie brosco for his years of undercover work he has

00:01:03.980 buckle up for this he has infiltrated the outlaws joined the clan got an up-close uh look at the

00:01:11.720 new strain of white supremacy recruiting young american people um story of murder plots drugs demons

00:01:19.660 pagan animal sacrifices a story of him in the basement that you'll never forget but

00:01:24.740 but he's telling now a story um from somebody who was undercover from the fbi when less americans

00:01:34.740 trust our fbi so it begs the question who is still looking out for you you're going to be riveted

00:01:43.220 scott pain claudia was leaving for her pickleball tournament i've been visualizing my match all week

00:01:50.580 she was so focused on visualizing that she didn't see the column behind her car on her backhand side

00:01:57.140 good thing claudia's with intact the insurer with the largest network of auto service centers in the

00:02:01.860 country everything was taken care of under one roof and she was on her way in a rental car in no time

00:02:06.980 i made it to my tournament and lost in the first round but you got there on time intact insurance

00:02:13.380 your auto service ace certain conditions apply

00:02:29.540 in reading your book i don't know how you're not schizophrenic

00:02:34.260 i mean honestly i don't know how how did you how did you balance the two worlds uh in the beginning

00:02:42.500 not very well uh you know if you're doing like i started at a street like we call it street level

00:02:49.460 so you're doing street level buys you roll up you make a buy you know you're not deep undercover

00:02:55.460 necessarily um but once i got in the fbi and then you're doing deep cover for long times long periods

00:03:03.300 of time yeah the balance for me where i messed up really it wasn't like a lot of people think hey

00:03:13.700 you're acting i'm pretending to be somebody i'm not yeah i'm not a criminal right you know of course i'm

00:03:18.740 not a white supremacist or you know uh uh the super violent person you know committing crimes but

00:03:25.220 i'm still me i'm still scott you know i'm uh yeah but i mean i was fascinated in in when you said

00:03:36.340 the friendships are real yeah i just betray them yeah yeah and and you know there are times when

00:03:45.700 you know one of the guys you know crying said i love you man and that that has to that one hurt it had

00:03:54.900 to it yeah that one hurt tell that story um so i i did a a two-year case uh inside the outlaws uh

00:04:04.180 motorcycle club that's one of the big four one percenter clubs and you got hell's angels outlaws

00:04:09.220 probably banditos and then somebody else after that explain one percenters oh sorry uh yeah uh one

00:04:16.180 percenter for the listeners uh or viewers um one percenter comes it came out around 1960 it was in

00:04:23.300 it was during vietnam um war but a lot of veterans were coming back and they were creating these biker

00:04:29.140 clubs and the president of the american motorcycle association came out and blasted this media thing

00:04:38.180 you know marketing that said hey listen 99 of all motorcycle riders are good law-abiding citizens

00:04:44.500 it's only one percent that's bad and they took that as a badge of honor and that's why you see

00:04:49.540 those clubs you'll see a diamond patch with the one percenter in it but i've recently uh made the

00:04:55.860 correlation that was kind of crazy to me because i did enjoy that lifestyle i am a biker um but in

00:05:05.380 law enforcement it's one percent of law enforcement that does undercover work like deep undercover work

00:05:11.780 so i guess i'm i guess i'm a one percenter in some point but yeah so so you're in the one percent

00:05:18.020 yes club um and what are you there to do well the case starts usually on the long-term cases like the

00:05:27.620 case team's already been working it i'm not up there i wasn't in boston i was assigned to san antonio

00:05:32.100 division at that time um but the case team works it they get to the point to where they can actually

00:05:37.060 maybe try to introduce an undercover and then we come in and we come up with a game plan and try to

00:05:42.180 do that they had a lot of evidence and and um uh through law enforcement activity that crimes were

00:05:48.340 being committed but is it enough to get a federal charge is you know how do you know what they're

00:05:54.500 what they're really doing deep within and undercover can give you that if you if it if it's a success

00:06:00.260 and ours was so i went in there for two years developing relationships and getting evidence of

00:06:06.260 criminal activity it started with them it started with like um uh insurance fraud like they would

00:06:12.980 they would report their car stolen and they would get their money from the insurance company but i would

00:06:17.780 buy the car or vehicle truck motorcycle from them at a stolen price and then they believed i was taking

00:06:25.140 them to to mexico because i was based out of i was based out of mcallen texas and uh and then that

00:06:31.380 starts with that and the next thing you know you start gaining more trust um you start becoming uh

00:06:38.260 you get more scrutinized as the as the circles open up and then they carjack somebody and they

00:06:45.140 call me and they're like man we need to get rid of this car it is hot we just took it from somebody

00:06:49.460 at gunpoint blah blah blah then they start talking about home invasions and then you're picking up some

00:06:54.020 stuff on extortion and there's always dope deals um and and that's we were building that case you

00:07:01.380 kind of go where the case takes you but back to your original question is you you do develop friendships

00:07:08.260 now don't get me wrong on some cases i mean like am i really can i really bond with a violent white

00:07:15.300 supremacist yeah yeah no i i mean i can try to find something to talk about right but um but on

00:07:23.060 some cases and especially that one uh you can develop some pretty close relationships and i did

00:07:28.340 uh over that two-year period is it i i and maybe i'm just really naive but i i i meet people who are

00:07:40.340 supposedly you know horrendous one way or another and i can i feel as though i can see who they

00:07:48.420 actually are not who they were born to be who who they really are you know without all the crap of

00:07:54.980 their life do you is that what you bond with you see that sometimes like good things and really bad

00:08:02.180 people sometimes absolutely i i um i mean i'm a human yeah uh but yeah you can look a lot of times

00:08:12.500 it's not every case but there's been numerous times where i've looked at me looking at it through my

00:08:17.700 eyes i'm going well that could have been me um they grew up in this environment something happened

00:08:22.660 here and they chose this way when that if that proverbial fork in the road i chose this way but that

00:08:27.140 could have easily been me how many of these people do you meet and they're just like evil to

00:08:34.100 the core a lot yeah i mean so how do you deal with that how do you stay in a room i watch these movies

00:08:41.300 you know i watch movies of people who are undercover you know even like you know mission impossible and

00:08:46.740 i'm a peripheral character going i could never do that i would freak out of my mind how do you

00:08:52.180 how do you stay in a room full of just what you know is evil how does that happen what do you

00:08:59.860 do to turn off well that's a good question i'm you're asking me and what's popping in my head is

00:09:04.580 i'm just in work mode you know i mean i know i've got a job to do i know i'm there but it

00:09:11.300 essentially the job is to find out i mean we're being proactive most of the time in these cases you're

00:09:17.220 not reactive you're being proactive you've got reporting possibly of some bad things happening

00:09:23.060 but let's just take the white supremacy stuff and and that kind of rhetoric under the first amendment

00:09:28.340 freedom of speech protection right so you go in there and maybe after five months you find out

00:09:33.540 they're not doing anything illegal so i'm kind of in work mode but don't get me wrong i mean when i'm

00:09:38.900 sitting across the table from a pedophile who's hiring me to kill the kid that he molested

00:09:42.900 i have to i mean i have to maybe that is acting right there maybe because we don't say it's acting

00:09:50.660 and we don't call it an acting school i'm using what what i know about me and and i'm just you got

00:09:56.900 to be using personifying that but yeah when you're sitting across from a even as a even as an agent not

00:10:02.660 just as an undercover but even as a case agent and you're working those types of cases and you're

00:10:06.900 seeing the heart the horrific things and there's a lot of people out there that just don't know how evil

00:10:12.020 the world can be or is yeah and and i get it i mean maybe their brain doesn't let them deal with

00:10:18.740 that i got family members they can't deal with it you know you see something and they're like oh my

00:10:23.380 gosh how can something like that happen and i'm like well you don't even know the half of it

00:10:27.700 but i am an optimist and i'm a glasses half full guy and my faith has carried me through a lot of

00:10:32.740 things and what is the role of faith that i mean because i and i was so glad to see this in your book

00:10:38.500 you make a big deal out of faith yeah and um i haven't really seen that covered on another

00:10:44.660 podcast with you and i think i think that's so critical here because you i mean i want to later

00:10:50.420 go into what the dark side of the stuff that you have seen that is you know on the horizon with the

00:10:57.540 kind of the new brand of really bad people but tell me about faith tell me about your faith when you

00:11:04.820 were young how'd you grow up what happened so i grew up in a christian home um it was uh

00:11:12.740 it was more southern baptist when where i grew up it was the hellfire and brimstone you know don't do

00:11:17.700 this don't do that and then uh and then usually that's the person you find doing it anyway uh which

00:11:23.060 is i'm like hey that's human stuff right i'm like oh yeah you know you're on the front line now

00:11:28.660 i'm like yeah i didn't want it till you told me i couldn't have it you know uh but i grew up that

00:11:35.300 way and it was just what i was the way i was raised by my parents and the love and my whole family i

00:11:41.060 mean both of my grandfathers were pastors wow um and and uh i saw it did i see i'm pretty sure i saw

00:11:49.620 my mom's dad preach a few times um but he would get a shout out on the gaithers you know they talk

00:11:55.780 about being at a tent revival in south carolina and they're like ah that's my grandpa wow but

00:12:00.340 um that's what i grew up around does that mean i stayed that way absolutely not because you had

00:12:04.740 a brush with darkness oh big time yeah i uh my first seven years of school was at a christian school

00:12:10.900 um my parents were doing well enough to put me in a private school

00:12:15.780 um which had its own issues when i went to public school in eighth grade you know it's like

00:12:20.980 uh just let's just say peer pressure was a new thing for me you know uh you know it's wrong to

00:12:28.420 do it but if somebody calls you a chicken you're like right i'm not a chicken i mean you know what

00:12:32.900 i mean i know i'm gonna get expelled if i do this but right i might be a lot of things but i'm not a

00:12:38.820 chicken right uh i think i learned a lesson i think it was in back to the future two or three

00:12:44.500 yeah yeah um so in my teenage years i did and i put this in the book i went through a little spell

00:12:53.860 of uh uh it started with like witchcraft stuff and then it led into like you were in yeah yeah

00:13:01.620 like a friend i always use air quotes my friend introduced me um and it starts kind of innocent

00:13:08.020 and stupid but i ended up just going into full-blown satan worshiping you know wanting to sign a

00:13:13.940 contract in blood and all this crazy stuff i watched um every horror movie from a to z that

00:13:21.220 was out you know at the when you could go rent movies yeah on a vcr tape um and i was just in

00:13:28.340 a real dark place i didn't realize at the time of course i didn't i was a teenager but when you get

00:13:32.500 older and you look back i'm like oh man my parents had gotten divorced and that you know that hey are you

00:13:39.620 okay with this because i i'd never seen my parents argue at all but that last year that last year they

00:13:44.980 argued non-stop and then they got a divorce they got separated and then they got a divorce and looking

00:13:49.700 back i could see that you know it's like hey are you okay with this yeah i don't care yeah i don't

00:13:54.500 care i was probably saying something else a little more a little more uh vulgar in my mind you know

00:13:59.060 i don't you know but that went into everything i did i started and that's kind of like i don't care

00:14:04.740 and it kind of goes it doesn't kind of go it goes with if you look at gangs cults um extremism whether

00:14:14.180 it's far left far right radical jihad they kind of you'll see this thing where they're grabbing somebody

00:14:21.780 who has a need to belong um wants to fit in maybe even as a young man you want power yeah and and you

00:14:30.260 you that's kind of that's that slippery slope that led me down that path and then as i tell

00:14:35.860 the story in the book i'm still unbelievable friends with my core high school group and the

00:14:41.860 only thing we can chalk it up to is that it's everything we went through growing up that kind

00:14:46.180 of made us keep this bond um but uh one of my buddies uh was there we we were drinking one night

00:14:53.860 and i'd gone to this full-fledged deal where i'm just talking in demon voices i was losing friends

00:15:01.540 uh i i was just it was just evil man i would like i had a volkswagen oddly enough for my first vehicle

00:15:08.820 they do have good headroom you don't seem like the volkswagen beetle yeah you don't seem like the

00:15:14.900 beetle did you have the little flower in the bed no they didn't do that then this is a 1971

00:15:20.420 but uh solid white with chrome rims yeah you know it doesn't matter what the body looks like

00:15:27.060 as long as you got good tires on it um but uh the the place that worked on the car was a christian

00:15:33.060 workshop and i would set the tape say the band's grim reaper and then somewhere in there in that 80s

00:15:40.340 satanic you know pentagram stuff there'll be some demonic speak and i would set the cassette to where

00:15:47.620 when they crank the car it would just be blaring because you could do that back then and it would

00:15:51.540 be blaring that stuff it's just evil it's just i mean i was just being i was not cool and i was

00:15:57.380 shooting everything in my backyard i wouldn't i it it wasn't good and uh one night i'd started doing

00:16:06.340 these like skits if you want to call them that but i would like i was acting out a scene that i've seen

00:16:12.260 the movie where it's a demonic possession and you were with people or yeah we we'd had a party and

00:16:18.260 we were at somebody's house i don't remember the name i could see the guy i can't remember his name

00:16:21.940 i didn't drive there that night so just alcohol no psychedelics nothing to hallucinate or nothing like

00:16:28.100 that and uh and i was doing uh the thing i was we were in the same room it was my buddy and his

00:16:35.780 girlfriend and i was on the couch um nothing nefarious happened everybody at least i didn't think it was

00:16:40.980 you know everybody's passing out but i'm doing this scene in my head where uh that i'd seen in

00:16:45.620 the movie and and you talk like yourself and you're screaming no no no and then you laugh like the

00:16:50.580 demon and you talk like that and i was going back and forth doing this i don't know play if you will

00:16:56.980 and uh it ends with the demon winning and the demon taking over your body and i was facing the

00:17:02.500 back of the couch and when i rolled over laughing like the demon or the satanic whatever possession

00:17:09.220 when i rolled over what i saw was all red like a watery image and it was a demon looking at me

00:17:18.020 smiling with his crooked finger and nails and looking at me and giving me the come here

00:17:23.380 and and i screamed i laugh now because i'm 54 but i i screamed probably the highest i've ever screamed

00:17:31.860 and from just me reaching like sitting up on the couch and reaching for the light switch i was as

00:17:36.900 white as a sheet i was panting uh pouring sweat of course my buddy jumps up like what the heck is going

00:17:43.940 on you know and i looked at him and i said man if i ever do that again if i ever use that voice or even

00:17:52.020 do this again you got my permission to take a baseball bat and crack me over the skull with it

00:17:56.500 or something to that effect he got completely calm glenn it was like the spirit just entered the

00:18:01.460 room he just everything just went and he looked at me and i don't even know if he remembers saying it

00:18:06.340 because i think it was the spirit he looked at me and he leaned in as if he knew what i'd seen

00:18:11.460 and he said i told you didn't i that was it i didn't sleep i walked to church i don't know how many

00:18:18.020 miles it was it was a saturday night and i walked to edwards road baptist church in greenville south

00:18:23.300 carolina and i think i sat through every service i would have too that was it that was it for the

00:18:29.220 demonic stuff for me what did he mean by i told you i think early on he's he said like man you need

00:18:36.420 to stop that crap you know you're scared he was not part of no oh no he was just he was one of the

00:18:43.060 friends i was losing because i was going to such a dark place and then you know throughout my my life

00:18:49.460 have i seen uh demonic stuff yeah have i seen have i be like have i had to go to a

00:18:55.780 uh a satanic concert festival for three days how do you do it uh i've very transparently it's because

00:19:05.060 they had jack daniels there that's the only way i said i said as an alcoholic i can appreciate you

00:19:12.740 know i'm like it's at a bar right and they're like yeah and i go do they serve whiskey and they go

00:19:18.420 yeah and i go i think i can do it because i don't know about walking into it's just a bunch for me

00:19:24.500 when you walk in uh it's sad because it's a bunch of lost souls is what it is how many of those lost

00:19:30.580 souls actually know what they're dealing with like you didn't know what you were dealing with until it

00:19:36.740 happened yeah i don't i i would venture to say a bunch because they're probably just on it for the kick

00:19:42.500 right or maybe they're saying they're atheist and they're doing it just to be funny you know but

00:19:48.660 you start scratching at the surface i'm telling you right now uh in my belief system there's definitely

00:19:54.420 spiritual warfare and all kinds of stuff it's the only way to describe i think what's happening

00:20:02.180 because it's sweeping the entire world and it is it's either deep mental illness or

00:20:09.620 it's possession of some sort there there is you know i have friends who are atheists who have said

00:20:18.180 to me i i don't know how to describe what i'm seeing other than evil and i know that's not an

00:20:24.580 atheist word and i know what it means but i can't describe this any other way yeah and that's that's

00:20:30.660 what i try to tell people that i put it in the book i'm sure it's been said before but the best way for

00:20:35.620 me to explain it a lot of these interviews i've been blessed uh on this book launch tour and stuff

00:20:41.620 and uh and even the rolling stone magazine article back in 2022 but i just say look you just need to

00:20:47.540 understand that there are evil people on this planet that want to do evil things to good people and it's

00:20:52.340 been that way pretty much since the beginning of time if you can't deal with that that's cool but if we

00:20:57.220 tell you lock the door lock the door you know don't like i i think like a bad person no i didn't

00:21:05.140 make me bad it's just i think like a bad person i'm like i was i was dating my wife before we were

00:21:11.540 married and we're out in the in a great part in nebraska and i was a narcotics officer at that point

00:21:18.340 at the sheriff's office and you go to go to bed at night and they don't even not only do they not

00:21:23.540 lock the door they don't even shut the door it's just a screen door and i'm like am i gonna lock

00:21:29.140 the door i've been there and they're like oh you don't have to worry about that around here i go

00:21:33.140 well if i was a bad guy this is where i'd come that's the first thing i say i go this is this is

00:21:37.300 where you see that murder show where some serial killer comes to town right three families are

00:21:42.900 murdered and they don't find out for like two weeks i'm like man lock the door it's crime there's

00:21:46.900 also crimes of opportunity like like you walk by a car with the window down and it's got a back when

00:21:52.660 there were cds uh let's just say it's a cd or a dvd sitting on the seat and you're like man i've been

00:21:58.180 wanting to see that movie you're not i've never thought about thieving but this person is dumb

00:22:02.340 enough to leave their window down and leave it sitting right here i'm gonna teach them a lesson

00:22:05.380 i'm gonna take this thing that's a crime of opportunity so a lot of these things as i've

00:22:10.500 been talking about since kind of going out i just because i meet people that are way left of where i

00:22:16.340 live i meet people that are way right of where i live and i'm like look if we just put it on the table

00:22:21.860 just let's put everything on the table first of all we need to be able to have a conversation you

00:22:26.900 can't keep cutting me off let's have a conversation but let's look at it and say first question is this

00:22:33.860 good or is this evil because most of the time you can break it down pretty quick in my opinion you can

00:22:39.380 you can see this is not good this is a bad thing do you wake up in the morning wondering how pain is

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00:23:45.620 number four relief when i found out my friend got a great deal on a wool coat from winners i started

00:23:52.820 wondering is every fabulous item i see from winners like that woman over there with the designer jeans

00:23:59.460 are those from winners ooh are those beautiful gold earrings did she pay full price or that leather

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00:24:19.060 so talk to me about what did you call acceleration uh accelerationalism

00:24:24.660 um let's start with the clan your grandfather's clan yeah the grandfather's clan the white hoods and

00:24:31.220 ropes right uh i infiltrated them too um i actually played music i played music for the spring and fall

00:24:37.700 rally for a clan collection is it harder to do this to be undercover now that the internet yeah yeah it's

00:24:45.860 gotta be yeah wait a minute i just saw you yeah and you you play in the band for your church yes right

00:24:53.380 and they just didn't film you above for a year and a half because the case for that for that year and

00:25:00.100 a half the case i was doing was the public corruption case and it was close to where i live so that's

00:25:04.980 why that was off but they they they stream these things into prisons and stuff too you know so um that

00:25:11.620 was another walk in faith for me i had to say look am i going to let my job interfere i know it's not good

00:25:16.500 operational security i know it's not the wisest thing to do but i've let my job interfere with me

00:25:21.540 worshiping up until this point i would think you needed that and i yeah i needed it bad um that's why i've

00:25:27.780 always laugh because it's volunteer based so sometimes i'm there multiple especially now that

00:25:33.540 i'm semi-retired but uh you know even when i was working heavy i'd you know maybe my wife was maybe

00:25:39.140 like man you've been putting in a lot of time at church i'm like you can't get too much jesus

00:25:42.900 i said i'll take all i can get i just i just need a d minus i want to get inside the gate

00:25:48.660 you know what i mean yeah yeah i just need to pass so you have uh you're you're with the old style

00:25:54.580 clan yeah hoods the robes the yep very historical i mean it was it was literally it was a lot of it

00:26:00.420 was like a history class yeah i mean i had to learn a lot um how do you mean that i just i mean like

00:26:05.700 that's when you go in and you get naturalized as a clan man meaning what it's well i had i went

00:26:11.460 through it i didn't know what was happening i'm like what am i doing right now i'm blindfolded they're

00:26:14.980 telling us to say this stuff and then at the end of it i go i think i just joined the clan

00:26:19.220 and then as i was walking across the field i was like we're rehearsing everything replaying

00:26:24.500 everything in my head i'm like and i'm thinking about the legal is i mean the rules and the policies

00:26:28.900 of the fbi and i'm going should i done okay okay this happened this happened this i get yep i just

00:26:34.020 joined the clan that's amazing that's kind of like you know it's kind of like as an again again

00:26:39.300 an alcoholic you ask yourself am i an alcoholic and all alcoholics will say if you're asking that

00:26:44.980 question the answer is most likely yes you can find yourself asking did i just join the clan most

00:26:51.140 likely you did yeah so i uh yeah those were those were some pretty comical times but literally you

00:26:56.980 had to go to clan craft class every week and like class class class like facebook messenger and it would

00:27:04.820 be like you all the newbies would be in the group and like the leader of the group would be like they

00:27:09.380 would throw because they they've got all these insignias and uh acronyms and it's like you know

00:27:16.500 like he would type a-y-a-k so you try to answer quick are you a clansman because that's what it

00:27:22.180 stands for it's like good that's right you know um loadie l-o-t-i-e ladies of the invisible empire

00:27:28.500 you had to know all these things like when was the first cross lighting i don't think i remember that

00:27:34.020 one i want to say like 1945 1915 no no 19 no first cross lighting yeah it was in it was in stone

00:27:42.660 mountain georgia i know that really yeah since i retired because the clan was around right after

00:27:47.780 the civil war but it was stone mountain georgia so it's somewhere in there what is the what is the

00:27:52.580 cross lighting that's when you see the cross on i know is it but is that a gathering or is that just

00:27:57.140 you just put it in you can put it in somebody's yard sometimes they put in somebody's yard but the

00:28:01.220 the thing i got to see was um or be a part of was uh and i remember the guy telling me because

00:28:10.500 so my sense of humor also carries me through a lot of things right because i'm out in the middle of

00:28:14.260 the field in the middle of nowhere in the middle of alabama and this guy's like i'm like hey i see

00:28:18.020 this like 20 30 foot metal cross and you wrap it in burlap and then they take steel wiring and hold

00:28:25.700 the burlap on you soak it in diesel fuel and then you have to stand it up in the hole and that's when i

00:28:30.740 learned that you call they call diesel fuel clan cologne because there's no way for you to stand

00:28:35.700 that cross up and not get it on you um and then they go smoke cigarettes i'm like i don't know i'm

00:28:40.900 like i i don't know how quick this thing will spark but no get away from me and you got like

00:28:48.580 five hundred dollars worth of fireworks in your trunk too i'm like what are we doing uh but i i remember uh

00:28:54.100 um i i you get naturalized you take those classes and then you have to take a test you take a k uno

00:29:01.460 test to pass it duo trio and then quad and uh the case kind of fell apart before i ever did anything

00:29:08.340 but um the i remember asking them i was like hey are we going to have a cross burning tonight

00:29:12.900 and the chaplain which was the clud uh was like um the clud that's that's whatever their chaplain

00:29:19.060 is you see it's in the book you break it down all right but like i said there's a lot of history i'm

00:29:24.260 sure some of it is very skewed but you see abraham lincoln said i mean it's all this stuff and it's

00:29:29.060 the history of the clan and the secret uh the invisible empire um but he said now scott it's not a

00:29:37.380 cross burning that'd be sacrilegious it's a cross lighting and i went i'm like but i'm standing

00:29:43.380 there like like i don't know like i'm and i don't but i'm i'm like all enthused i'm like oh okay all

00:29:48.180 right all right he goes he goes see a burning would be sacrilegious but the lighting it signifies the

00:29:55.380 light of jesus christ coming down in the world and driving the darkness out and i'm going in my mind

00:30:01.860 i'm laughing to myself because i'm thinking you're nuts but i'm thinking yeah i met so many

00:30:08.020 white guys named jesus you know that's the first thing i think i'm like all right i mean whatever

00:30:13.220 you got to tell yourself right and by driving the darkness out i'm assuming we're meaning non-whites

00:30:17.780 right um it just gets it gets kind of convoluted so you can go there there was the there's a long-term

00:30:25.140 belief system in white supremacy that's called christian identity not to be confused with christ

00:30:29.940 followers of christianity they take the story of the garden of eden and they twist the you know

00:30:35.140 what out of it they say that um same kind of story adam and eve serpent fruit of the forbidden tree sin

00:30:44.980 but they twist it to this and it's a dual it's called the dual dual seed theory um and then a dual

00:30:53.060 seed line i think um but this is the way it goes they say that the actual forbidden act

00:30:59.940 was eve having sex with the serpent aka satan aka a man of color you got to follow me because it

00:31:08.580 doesn't make any sense yeah it doesn't make any sense the bible i've not seen that in any bible

00:31:14.340 but apparently they read it differently so they say that that that eve the fruit of the forbidden tree

00:31:22.100 was a sexual act with the serpent satan a man of color and from that intercourse

00:31:28.100 cain was born and that is what they call the mud race all the way down which is non-white and then

00:31:33.700 they say but the procreation between adam and eve is able and that's the pure white race that's why

00:31:38.660 it's a dual seed line and it's i mean but you can take paganism i've got friends that are devout pagans

00:31:46.340 that are some of the most peaceful loving people i've ever met it's not my belief system right um but

00:31:51.620 uh i respect them and now you see a lot of that coming into the white supremacy and extremism realm

00:31:58.260 they're using because hitler did you know that neo-nazi i mean you see the norse mythology and

00:32:03.860 stuff like that and uh and i mean it's i mean if you think about it from a young man what's cool

00:32:10.340 standpoint viking i mean i got vikings all over my heart that's cool right yeah um for them anyway but

00:32:18.580 they would take christian identity and twist it and that was the reverend butler red ray fair and

00:32:22.740 the uh aryan nations up in idaho that was all that stuff and then it's trickled on down then you get

00:32:28.900 hang on just a just a personal note i live part of the year in southern idaho is there still really

00:32:34.740 bad up in northern no i've got friends no i've got friends in northern idaho now um i know but your

00:32:39.860 friends are sketchy we've already established this guy's not sketchy former swat team leader former

00:32:46.340 fbi agent not sketchy all right uh and he says he goes yeah we get a bad rap up here because of

00:32:51.220 that yeah compound stuff way back when but they got i mean the government seized all that um and

00:32:56.660 they went down and they're dead now but so that's the christian identity so you see that and then

00:33:02.500 through neo-nazi you know you might see like there was a there was a phase there where uh you have

00:33:10.100 like 80s 90s maybe early 2000s you've got your skinheads and all this stuff and that stuff's still

00:33:16.020 around but then you saw a shift to like the clean-cut white guy who was a neo-nazi um like richard

00:33:24.740 spencer and these other ones that would go out there and speak and and their idea was the entryism

00:33:30.020 belief is to infiltrate the the government left and right if you infiltrate the left bring it down

00:33:35.940 from within if you infiltrate the right twist things more towards white supremacy which i don't

00:33:40.100 understand there's not a lot of afterthought for a lot of these right yeah i know i'm like okay so

00:33:44.660 you take over as let's just say you're a mayor and you open the restaurants that's whites only

00:33:49.460 you don't think people are going to notice that i don't i don't understand where this whole ethno

00:33:54.580 state ends right is the ethno state we hang out at this one restaurant right i don't know what you

00:33:59.300 mean um but like again going back to your extremism beliefs some uh radical jihad that's like hey

00:34:05.700 they're going to get a caliphate everybody kind of wants their own peace um so then you get to what

00:34:11.140 you ask about accelerationism in the 80s there was a group that was there that kind of had the

00:34:17.460 belief system but it wasn't called accelerationism and we started seeing this stuff coming up and and

00:34:23.620 i ended up going and being the undercover on one of the cases against a group called the base and i

00:34:29.220 learned going in and infiltrating this is where i learned the belief system and the belief system is

00:34:34.580 this they call it siege culture because there's a book out there called siege that was written by james

00:34:39.540 mason long-time white supremacist created the adam waffen uh white supremacy group but he's got a

00:34:45.540 book it's a lot of interviews idolizes uh charles manson things like that i mean what a great role

00:34:52.500 model right if you're going to pick somebody you know i'm saying that sarcastically uh that would be

00:34:58.180 sarcasm yeah but um that kind of lays out this accelerationism view and that and the view is this

00:35:06.420 they don't believe that there's a political solution that can save the white race they believe

00:35:11.140 that society is going to collapse either on its own or from man-made events and they want to accelerate

00:35:15.860 it so they don't like you're not going to see if you see the division in the country back and forth

00:35:23.460 hate begets hate i don't care whether you left or right you do one thing hateful to this side they

00:35:27.860 do something hateful back to you it hate begets hate but when they see that they don't like any government

00:35:36.420 right they don't they're not republican they don't they don't like any government and you're not

00:35:42.900 going to see an accelerationist out on the corner with picket signs marching up and down the street

00:35:48.100 like a charlottesville type thing or some protest maybe like a kkk thing they're going to be hiding

00:35:55.220 because they want to do things like guerrilla warfare tactics they want to poison a water system

00:36:00.900 start killing lefty journalists or or or anti-fascists i mean some of these i mean it's

00:36:06.740 in the book i mean it's in the action it's in the court records if people don't believe it um i mean

00:36:11.540 i've had to sit there with these guys talking about i could say guys i mean 20 somethings you know

00:36:16.580 maybe a 30 something but uh talking about when d-day happens which they refer to as the boogaloo

00:36:23.620 that if their father did not agree to be fascist if you didn't follow fascist that automatically made

00:36:31.300 you anti-fash and once the boogaloo hits the penalty's death and they're sitting there telling

00:36:37.060 me sometimes crying saying i'm gonna have to i may have to very well i'm very willing to have to put a

00:36:41.620 bullet in the back of my father's head but i'll do it if he doesn't come to fascism now are they willing

00:36:47.860 to follow through with it i don't have a crystal ball are you doing overt acts and furtherance of

00:36:54.020 doing it well that's how we built the case uh they were they wasn't against the parents but it was

00:36:59.060 against um who they believed were uh uh an antifa couple and they wanted to murder everybody in the

00:37:07.220 house as our first hit murder everybody in the house burn the whole house murder everything in

00:37:12.100 the house living um one guy even said man i don't have because somebody says hey do we know if they got

00:37:17.380 any kids he said i don't have a problem killing the commie kid like okay what about pets no so are you

00:37:24.900 just talking or are you going to do it well you buy catch bags to put on your ars so if you do have

00:37:31.700 to shoot it even though it's going to be super loud it'll catch the brass so you don't leave anything

00:37:36.340 for law enforcement you've got a pistol with a silencer on it um they've talked about all kinds of

00:37:42.900 things to prepare for this night of murder uh leave all your electronics in one spot go to a

00:37:48.420 pay by the hour motel scrub yourself of all dead skin uh put vaseline on your facial hair we're going

00:37:56.020 to wear balaclavas cover our whole body tape the tape your sleeve to your gloves and nothing comes out

00:38:02.180 same thing as your boots and your ankle on the the guy leading the whole thing even came up he did

00:38:07.780 research and said that he had saw or read that um sometimes when people murder somebody for the

00:38:13.380 first time they lose control of their bible so he was suggesting we all wear the pins

00:38:18.500 so and then you still have a parent who says you made my boy do that

00:38:26.660 and they were just going through a phase they were just talking stupid i'm like hey i was just as

00:38:31.220 shocked when your son told me that we were going to kill people as anybody else i thought we were

00:38:35.300 were going to put up flyers and posters so um i want to come back to what you just said about you

00:38:41.540 know the uh acceleration but let me go to there i used to trust the fbi i always trusted the fbi

00:38:52.260 fbi was a friend i trust cops you know i trusted the government i trusted our i trusted our secret

00:38:58.020 service i trusted our cia i trusted everybody because you know like after 9 11 we all stood we all

00:39:05.220 we all wept we all looked and said my gosh i love my country and then something happened to us in

00:39:10.500 the last 25 years and i'm like wait wait wait what wait we don't all love our country we don't all

00:39:18.580 hold these truths to be self-evident anymore and i don't know what to believe i really don't i i mean

00:39:25.620 my son uh my son was being groomed by somebody he was playing a game with online okay and we would

00:39:34.260 a lot yeah i know we would have lost him if the guy didn't call once in two o'clock in the morning

00:39:42.180 and then hang up the phone and we had multiple lines and i could see that the line went back on

00:39:50.020 and i'm like one of my children or somebody is in the house that's using our phone and went up and he

00:39:57.060 was talking to a guy and he was talking to this guy and we're just talking about games dad and he

00:40:01.220 wanted to meet and i was like we called the fbi the fbi came in they took the gaming thing and said we

00:40:08.100 can we we'll handle this and they did and it was fantastic to be your son yeah yeah and it was

00:40:14.340 fantastic um but now you look and go

00:40:20.980 see fb and i'm i'm asking you this question

00:40:23.460 is the fbi good is the fbi bad is this like the whitmer case i

00:40:32.260 it what i was on the outskirts of that case were you so tell me what happened i don't know

00:40:38.980 i really don't because i i was on the outskirts i was another undercover that they were using to

00:40:44.740 possibly bump uh the guy that was making the bomb i can't remember his name right now but he doesn't

00:40:50.900 need any publicity anyway what do you mean bump uh like i was i was gonna be introduced to him

00:40:57.380 because you you what you saw was the main undercover going on right and i don't know i really don't have

00:41:02.500 any idea i know the two guys that that that did it um and i i don't know what happened up there at that

00:41:10.180 first trial because i from what i understood they had great overt acts um i do remember the guy's name

00:41:16.580 i won't say it yeah i won't say it um but this guy like they like the baltimore office i'd worked

00:41:24.020 with him on the base case and they called me and said hey just in case it doesn't work on this avenue

00:41:29.940 maybe try to talk to this guy because he likes to meet new people and he was the guy that they're

00:41:34.180 trying to get him again you're spewing a bunch of crazy stuff you're putting all these videos out

00:41:38.580 there that falls within your first amendment right right how do we know if you're really going to go

00:41:43.220 forward with it or not you know and you get a lot of pushback and and and people that don't

00:41:48.740 like law enforcement or have had bad bad experiences with law enforcement i've always had good experiences

00:41:52.900 i've had bad ones i had bad ones before i became a cop i had bad ones when i was a cop i mean look at you

00:42:02.100 i'm not talking for looking like this there's a line of a former buddy i had i still love him to

00:42:07.460 death but he said sometimes you forget what a piece of trash you look like

00:42:10.020 all right it depends on where we're standing that's right we're at the biker bar we're right

00:42:15.220 but um yeah the the if the thing is this if you're not doing anything illegal what are you worried

00:42:22.340 about i've done i've done many cases where i've gone in even even if i was running it as an agent

00:42:27.220 or i was the undercover and i'm in for five months thousands and thousands of the most hateful

00:42:32.660 vile anti-jewish anti-african-american white supremacist but it's covered on the first

00:42:40.740 amendment and nobody's planning on doing anything they're just waiting for the day so there's nothing

00:42:46.500 to charge so we i gotta pull chocks and back out now you ask about is the fbi good yes i believe so

00:42:53.940 in my heart of hearts because i did work a lot i was a workaholic and i know my peers and are there

00:42:59.940 some bad things yeah like you see like you see something come out on the news on that olympic

00:43:05.380 that uh the the doctor or whatever molesting all the girls apparently he came or somebody came and

00:43:11.300 brought that to the fbi and whoever got it unfortunately it was subjective not objective

00:43:17.780 and you got that person that day and they said oh there's nothing here i would have absolutely even

00:43:21.860 though that wasn't even the violations i worked i would have walked that baby we'd have figured out

00:43:25.140 something because you know it's not right we just got to figure out what charge to go with and if

00:43:29.780 it's not at a federal level well let's go state um but it's like for me it's a lot like anything

00:43:37.460 else in life one person or a group of bad actors like the george floyd thing uh atrocious i mean i'm

00:43:46.180 a defensive tactics instructor i was a i was the lead tactical instructor firearms active shooter swat

00:43:52.740 operator i'm like what is your goal is your goal to get that guy handcuffed and in the car then why are we

00:43:58.180 doing what what is you know and i and it's tough because a lot of us don't want a monday morning

00:44:04.020 quarterback but we can't make those mistakes again you know um and you see that and now all cops are

00:44:12.260 bad and i'm like no no they're not i mean does new orleans have a history of karevka yeah uh you know

00:44:18.740 does the border yeah does the border yeah i mean you're making when i was down let's just say you're making 25

00:44:25.220 grand a year and then somebody says a cartel member says i'll give you 10 to 15 grand if you

00:44:31.220 just turn your head for two three minutes let this car go through that's that's over half your salary

00:44:37.940 you think there's a chance for corruption yeah yeah you know so uh do i think the fbi is bad no

00:44:46.340 um i've stayed very apolitical through the book and everything um do i think that the fbi needed some

00:44:52.740 changing yeah i do personally absolutely but and and like you said 9-11 what's sad is unfortunately

00:45:00.180 it usually takes some catastrophic event for everybody to come together and swing the pendulum

00:45:05.380 back towards better things and i hate that but it just seems like that's the way it works sometimes

00:45:10.660 it just seems as though there are more and more of these groups free palestine you know black lives

00:45:20.740 matter the clan um you know the neo-nazis crazy people just all of these people who

00:45:30.820 you know do you know alexander dugan is the name sounds familiar you should you should read you'd love

00:45:35.540 this he is um uh he is a guy was putin's brain is what they called okay yeah he was yeah you know yeah

00:45:44.340 so he i mean his symbol is the ancient symbol of anarchy okay and he believes and so do the the

00:45:52.580 twelvers in um in iran they believe that they can hasten the return of the promised one he believes

00:46:02.260 that we can hasten the correction of the world if we push the world into chaos and so they will work

00:46:09.300 with anyone anyone um to bring chaos to the world if it's going to cause problems oh i'll work with

00:46:18.020 you absolutely because they want to bring their they back yeah they want they want the world to

00:46:25.700 collapse yep so sounds like generations right because they they think that they're going to be the ones

00:46:32.340 i'll take care of i'll take care of that group after let's get this done you know what i mean yeah

00:46:37.300 and there's so many of those and when i'm reading and i'm seeing accelerationists that's what they

00:46:42.740 are isn't it yeah but theirs ends with an ethno state just like well but everybody ends you know

00:46:50.340 the the the twelvers in iran and with an islamic state uh you know putin's guy ends with a russian

00:46:58.660 state i mean they all have that i love how they all end basically socialism and you get your stuff for

00:47:03.060 free yeah right and i did ask him one time because my sense of humor again being somewhat dark um

00:47:12.020 we were on a ruck and it's like five five of us i don't know and we stopped to rehydrate up on top

00:47:19.620 of a mountain somewhere and and i'm saying yes we're neo-nazis yeah okay boogaloo yeah man d-day yeah

00:47:25.460 we're gonna take over yeah ethno state because at the base was already looking at property in the

00:47:30.100 appalachian mountains was looking at prop the the north central was looking at property in the upper

00:47:35.780 peninsula of michigan um pacific northwest had land to create your own ethno states again not a lot of

00:47:42.580 forethought or afterthought i'm like so what do we do if the cops come what do we do if the national

00:47:47.700 guard comes what do we do if the army navy air force marines coast guard and anybody else comes and it

00:47:54.100 was just and then i even asked one time i'll go so who's gonna be hitler and they're just kind of

00:47:59.300 like you know i'm like well they're gonna be one who's gonna lead this thing you know it's uh

00:48:06.020 it's it's sad and uh but you talk about like foreign influence stuff absolutely i mean it's

00:48:14.020 anything to create chaos and you're right right i mean if people

00:48:17.620 if people don't believe that our adversaries our enemies going back to cold war and before right

00:48:26.580 aren't trying to feed chaos feed things to create chaos in the united states you're living under a rock

00:48:34.100 man but the scary thing is is

00:48:38.100 we've lost a center of truth and god has to be put back in absolutely in my opinion yeah god has

00:48:50.900 to be put back in and then the foundation of the country which was based on god needs to be put back

00:48:56.820 in and we need to start putting people in jail that need to be put in jail stop just stop all of this

00:49:04.100 crap you know what i mean um but because we haven't done that for so long you have all these groups

00:49:11.700 and you know when you talk about the boogaloo they'll figure that out when they get there they

00:49:17.060 just want the collapse and and it it's everywhere and i'm afraid regular people if you start to really

00:49:25.460 become disenfranchised you'd be like you know what these guys are even though you don't believe

00:49:30.500 everything you know at least these guys are going to take care of it yeah wow is that trouble yeah

00:49:36.100 and and you know on a scale like some people would be like yeah but it's only a one it's kind of like

00:49:41.060 you hear somebody say well i only took over two apartment building buildings two two apartment

00:49:44.660 buildings i'm like well one's enough you know and and i'll i'll get on a little bit of a soapbox for

00:49:51.300 law enforcement here it's very rare especially when you're a uniformed cop that you show up and

00:49:55.060 everybody's happy yeah yeah you know what i mean yeah you're showing up when everybody's at their

00:49:58.980 worst yeah usually yeah it's not facebook yeah look at how happy i am right now look how great

00:50:04.420 my life is um but it's you see things like that and you go yeah until something happens to you

00:50:13.060 or something happens to your family and then you want to know i used to always say before i retired

00:50:17.540 i only retired in 21 june of 21 i used to say look man don't don't hate me i'm a law enforcement

00:50:24.660 officer i'm here to serve and protect i took an oath my title is peace officer that's the way i

00:50:31.460 should be acting um it's not always that easy um especially when you get there's a whole another

00:50:38.420 tangent to go down but the things that that law enforcement sees on a regular basis can be pretty

00:50:45.940 horrific i would say the same thing to them that i said to you at the beginning how do you how do you do

00:50:50.900 it yeah you're seeing the very worst how do you we're number one in suicide first responders and

00:50:56.180 i'll throw a military one that military first responders and that's not just that's that's

00:51:00.420 medic that's fire um first we're first in suicide we're first in divorce we're first in alcoholism

00:51:08.180 which you can throw pills and other stuff in there now um and we're usually if we're not first we're

00:51:13.780 pretty high and dying within five years after retiring because it's just such a pressure cooker but i used

00:51:19.140 to always say look you know don't hate me i'm just enforcing the law if you don't like the law

00:51:25.140 then change the law then that that's my parameter right i'm looking this is the law you broke the law

00:51:30.660 and then that we went through this phase where they were just picking and choosing what they

00:51:34.100 wanted to charge it's like oh well i disagree with that federal law so i think it's okay to break that

00:51:40.420 one well no what kind of slippery slope is that yeah you know i'm like and then you've got agencies

00:51:46.420 strapped that can't even do their job yet you want them to go out there and be on the front line and

00:51:50.180 take a break to the face it's tough it's tough but for me i just i think i love talking and i think

00:51:57.540 everybody just needs to come to the table and be able to have a conversation i agree like if i took

00:52:02.340 i'd say it jokingly but i'm like if i took a white supremacist and let's just say it's a black

00:52:08.660 separatist because i've met a lot of people since i've retired like through eradicate hate global summit

00:52:14.260 i'm talking about they call them that i hate to put a title but it's like a former you're a former

00:52:19.540 like you're a former radical jihadist you're a former white you're a former black separatist

00:52:24.740 and we're all sitting down at a table and having a meal together because now they're with life after

00:52:29.300 hate and stuff um i don't know where i was going with it but yeah i was headed somewhere but oh well

00:52:37.300 i love that when that happens um let me let me take you to um how are these accelerationists

00:52:46.660 attracting new people oh they're big on recruitment recruitment you kind of hit on some of it in the

00:52:52.260 gaming like you said your your kid was being groomed man that happens all the time parents need to be

00:52:57.620 aware look i i get not wanting to be a helicopter parent i don't agree with helicopter parenting

00:53:02.740 personally but online you have to you have to i mean there's great applications out there like bark

00:53:09.060 just like it sounds b-a-r-k you can install that on your kid's phone man i don't know how many

00:53:12.980 thousands of people they got working it but they got people working it it will notify you if there's

00:53:17.060 suicidal talk firearm talk dope talk sex talk all that stuff and it'll also quiz you as a parent

00:53:23.860 to do you know what this means this is this is the current thing right now this is the current when

00:53:28.100 you see this emoji do you know what that means how long has this been out i just my kid

00:53:31.220 i mean today my daughter is graduating from high school i would have liked that yeah

00:53:36.100 i'm with you i found out from another law enforcement officer who had already done the

00:53:39.700 research and development and he told me he said i'm like dude or like like i'm in the fbi office

00:53:44.980 and i come in and i'm i'm very i'm transparent and i'm talking to the guys and gals on the cyber squad

00:53:52.180 about some things that i found on snapchat when my daughters were younger and they're like oh yeah

00:53:56.500 snapchat's the devil for young kids and i'm like well see that'd be nice for you to spread through this

00:54:00.900 entire office yeah because i didn't know that'd have been good to know about three months ago

00:54:06.100 actually you jack wagon right um so yeah just putting it out there but gaming huge recruitments

00:54:13.140 there but all these dark web apps like um and maybe it's not even considered dark web but telegram

00:54:19.380 gab wire riot discord all these things they can be for good things but let me just let you know that

00:54:27.940 there are people with nefarious plans going to those things to recruit and that's how i got in

00:54:33.780 the base i went to gab they were posting all kinds of stuff they would get their channel would get

00:54:38.420 closed down and they would change one thing and come back what is what is the base uh they said they

00:54:44.260 were a survivorless survivalist group um training uh for whatever and then you start you see like save

00:54:52.180 your race join the base and then they would have an email at proton mail uh because that's not in

00:54:57.140 the states right so you can do that anything that they believe is encrypted uh that that and and a

00:55:04.100 lot of people's mind that means okay basically the feds can't subpoena this because it's in another

00:55:07.860 country right so and sometimes it's true um you know vk was the russian facebook for a long time i don't

00:55:14.340 know if it still is because i'm not in the game anymore but uh you go on there and it'll be like hey

00:55:20.100 here's a room whites only well i wonder what you're going to find in there right 14 words which

00:55:24.980 is uh this is all throughout white supremacy the 14 words coined by david lane i don't have it

00:55:31.220 memorized anymore but basically securing the uh uh the future of the white race and our children um

00:55:38.500 so you start going in there and then you see like that people go to a lot of work they'll put together

00:55:43.380 these um videos where they're showing real things that happen uh where let's just say it's it's

00:55:52.020 blacks attacking whites um or just brutal beatdowns and stuff and they show that stuff to get your hate

00:55:58.580 going but if you go over to the black separatists they're showing videos of white people doing bad

00:56:04.900 things to african americans or whatever and it's like again it's that whole it's evil it's hate it's

00:56:10.180 the devil man i mean you walk over here whispering this and a reasonable person would say both of

00:56:15.460 those are true yes let's not be a part of any of that yeah and they're just in there and and they

00:56:20.740 go to these great lengths to recruit in the base uh the rule for us was every video we released for

00:56:28.660 recruitment the next video had to be better had to get better every time so putting up flyers doing

00:56:35.220 videos and you see a lot of young kids diving in here you know from all over the world i mean we

00:56:40.660 had members in the base from because i mean you got a you got a phone now you got a smartphone um and

00:56:45.940 that shrinks the world and we had members from australia in australia south africa canada the uk

00:56:52.100 germany i think norway um and there's plenty more how dangerous do you think it is to where

00:56:58.740 but i don't want to get you into politics but um the in europe they are importing all of or you know

00:57:08.820 allowing all of these people to come on refugees and they're they're not listening to the people

00:57:15.220 and i'm not talking white people i'm talking people who are any color but that's their country and they

00:57:21.700 don't believe in this policy and they feel their country is being overrun and nobody seems to be

00:57:28.900 able to explain exactly how this is good for our country and i'm watching these farmers you know with

00:57:35.300 the wef thing where they're being told you can't farm that land you can't use fertilizer you get and

00:57:42.740 they're like well how are you going to eat yeah and they nobody seems to have a good answer and they're

00:57:49.620 all going the same direction and i look at this as a ticking time bomb for two things one civil

00:57:57.380 unrest like nobody's business and extremism when you back people into a corner and nobody is making

00:58:04.740 any sense you'll go to the only person that's saying the things that you're thinking about this

00:58:10.980 deep not thinking that they're this deep on all of those things you know being in prison

00:58:16.020 pretty sure i'm probably going to side with the white group because it's right you know it's like

00:58:21.940 all right right right uh because i mean you're trying to survive at that point are you are you

00:58:26.900 concerned about that i i am but again i'm an optimist and the glass is half full guy uh if i wasn't i

00:58:32.740 don't know i probably jumped off a building a long time ago you know um

00:58:36.660 um sometimes if they push far enough hopefully everybody wakes up hopefully a catastrophic event

00:58:44.020 something horrific doesn't have to happen um and they can wake up and go wait a minute

00:58:49.380 we have gone too far there's humanitarian i get the humanitarian thing i worked the border

00:58:54.500 for six and a half years i i was with the president two weeks ago and i said and he said i know i'm the

00:59:00.020 same way i said look if i'm living in mexico and my town is overrun with drug lords my kids have no

00:59:07.700 chance of ever progressing i try to vote and they kill the guy i'm voting for and america doesn't

00:59:13.700 care about their borders i am there in a heartbeat i'm taking my whole family i'm trying to get

00:59:18.500 everybody to america i get it i 100 get it so we have to have compassion and understand we also

00:59:27.540 we don't want to be the titanic without lifeboats we we have to have life how do you do it they've

00:59:34.340 maybe they can speed up the process i don't know i'm not an immigration guy i worked with

00:59:38.100 them like crazy for years but um humanitarian side man i've seen a mother and a daughter

00:59:44.740 get caught because i've apprehended a load because when when i was in mcallen texas for six and a half

00:59:51.060 years the bulk of that time i'll say it was the flavor of the month but it was special interest alien

00:59:57.060 smuggling so it was it was aliens it was undocumented aliens coming into america from

01:00:02.660 threat countries but it was very rare that you would find a pipeline say chinese triad from china

01:00:08.340 all the way to new york city it would be you got it you've got multiple smuggling groups all on the uh

01:00:15.300 the mexico side and they're bringing people in and it might be 10 loads of just what they would call

01:00:22.340 other than mexican or mexicans and then in that 11th load you got nine chinese or you got somebody

01:00:29.220 from yemen or so you have it was very rare that you had this straight pipeline um but i've seen

01:00:36.180 horrific things i mean and i'm i wasn't even working it every day um but like a mother and a

01:00:41.860 daughter who came from somewhere way away had to come on a ship there's no telling i mean i'm pretty

01:00:48.260 sure i won't get into it but there's been horrific things that they had to go through i know or you

01:00:52.900 see a girl that went through guatemala um in uh in a hidden compartment by the engine of a bus no ac

01:01:02.820 in that heat for like 16 hours and then through mexico in a hidden compartment next to the bus engine

01:01:09.140 for 16 to 18 hours and then you finally make it across the river and you get caught

01:01:14.500 and they send them right back or that mother and daughter they flew them back and i'm like but

01:01:19.460 i've seen evil people because they were mexican they just kick them back across the river and i'm

01:01:24.260 telling you glenn well before we're even close to finishing processing everybody or even attempting

01:01:31.300 to get paperwork done i have a source calling me and going hey they're back in the stash house and i'm

01:01:36.260 like i'm still at the board patrol station and they're like yeah they're back at the house they've

01:01:42.100 already kicked them across they've already come back across the river that's the this is this is

01:01:45.140 the problem though i think all of our compassion is misplaced if we're not thinking about the

01:01:51.860 compartment next to the engine in the bus yeah we it by first of all by not being clear on what our rules

01:02:00.420 are that person wherever they are thinks they have a chance to escape whatever horror they're in

01:02:07.140 yeah and get to america and then i mean again i would do the same thing it's a dilemma because you

01:02:13.700 also know that or at least i know because i've worked it when that opens up you know that bad people

01:02:21.140 are going to use that for their advantage that's what i mean and that's what happens all of the

01:02:24.580 people along the way that are making all kinds of money and exploiting those people that we we don't

01:02:31.140 seem to care about the suffering that goes on because we're unclear and all of the bad guys

01:02:37.940 we're empowering a lot of people don't know it uh they don't want to know it and and depending on

01:02:44.580 what your political stance is or what you're running for some people i mean it's politics they won't you

01:02:50.420 know they they want the votes how how much do these uh i don't know clan and everything else how much do

01:02:59.140 they have in common with what the drug cartels are really turning into because the drug cartels seem

01:03:04.900 to be it's different it's different because like a lot of the white supremacy stuff i did there wasn't

01:03:11.620 really a lot of i mean if it was drugs involved it was because they were using personally using adderall

01:03:16.820 to help them shoot faster you want some pale horse i get no i'm good i got coffee right i don't

01:03:23.700 even know where you got that man yeah it's probably got fentanyl uh no i'm not gonna do adderall uh i

01:03:31.380 didn't see a lot of that that was more about the ideology and and getting your own ethno state or like

01:03:38.740 even the clan changed from being white supremacists they go we're not white supremacists anymore we're

01:03:42.980 white separatists and i'm like okay because it sounds less about me you can have the politically correct

01:03:50.180 racist look on this other side of this ridge and those pine trees you can have all black whatever

01:03:56.740 you want we just want our all white right here and i think the words it's in the book but i forget

01:04:01.620 the actual transcription it was like i mean you don't see the guy you don't see cats and dogs having

01:04:10.100 sex but we don't like race mixing and i'm like that's makes absolutely okay so that's a cat and a dog

01:04:17.300 these are two humans i'm like i think if i see somebody with a giraffe having sex i'm going to

01:04:23.220 say no to that i'm like you know i mean i kind of see what you're saying but i don't see what you're

01:04:28.260 saying um you were you were at something where uh me yeah you were at something where they sacrificed

01:04:38.020 a goat ah yes yes that would not be they that would be us i was there and uh took part in it

01:04:44.020 hmm so we'll circle back on that paganism thing so a lot of your white supremacy groups that i've

01:04:51.700 been involved with at the end uh were falling more towards paganism um but i say that loosely

01:04:58.500 because just like how the white supremacy movement took christianity and made christian identity

01:05:04.500 church of jesus christ christian all that twisted garden of eden stuff and there's a whole bunch of

01:05:08.740 other stuff too the the white supremacy realm was taking paganism and twisting it and and it's not

01:05:15.060 what it's supposed to be um so uh this was the group the base and it was a halloween hate camp 2019

01:05:24.660 yeah halloween yeah i mean we didn't call it that i'd love to see the flyers in the school halls

01:05:30.580 come to the halloween hate camp everybody's welcome i mean almost not not everybody i mean

01:05:36.340 not you but uh yeah oh man people uh but they we had probably like 12 or 13 members come from all

01:05:45.700 over the united states uh in north georgia was the cell c-e-l-l i always spell it because i got a

01:05:51.460 country accent um the closest cell to me was in north georgia it just ends up uh luck

01:06:00.260 divine intervention that that's one of the people we're trying to find out about

01:06:03.700 and this guy luke uh he went by the he went but for the most of the time he went by tmb the militant

01:06:10.420 buddhist everybody has a moniker i was pale horse which is the title of the book um the

01:06:18.740 he had he lived on a hundred acre can i stop for a second yeah why the pale because the pale horse

01:06:23.700 is death yeah uh well the story goes like this i came in as white warrior which was more of a

01:06:32.340 boomer kind of a kind of a thing but of course i'd argue back and i go well i'm sorry when i was in

01:06:38.900 this movement and i've been in i've been in it longer than you've probably been alive uh we wore it

01:06:44.500 proudly tattoos all this stuff i just i just twisted it yeah yeah to make it believable but uh pestilence was

01:06:51.140 one of the main guys and and i asked him i said because he was like white warrior such a boomer

01:06:55.780 name and i'm like okay all right first of all i googled it i don't even fall within the boomer

01:07:01.060 years but whatever you know you little punk but uh i'm like so where did you come up with pestilence

01:07:07.540 and he said well it's one of the four horsemen it's it's uh you know it's the plague and i'm like

01:07:13.460 wow that is really cooler than mine

01:07:14.980 i was like now i do feel like a boomer that's pretty that's pretty good and then i i said i said

01:07:21.300 man would you be offended if i took pale horse i said because i've always been fascinated with

01:07:26.740 you know death on a pale horse the grim reaper you know you throw in the metallica song you know

01:07:31.380 four horsemen um and he goes absolutely not man take it and that's how i became pale horse i was

01:07:36.020 pale horse at eater of souls you had to have like a thing under you oh my god yeah um okay so you're

01:07:42.980 back with these people now you're cool you're at the halloween hate party with all the kids all

01:07:48.660 the cool kids all the cool kids yeah uh with guns yeah right on adderall some haven't slept in three

01:07:53.940 days good times uh you think you again again right jack daniels yeah you know uh but i uh it was

01:08:04.580 halloween we were doing this this probably be like four days of training um luke's dad has a hundred

01:08:10.020 acres out there and uh that was gorgeous i mean gorgeous land but um unfortunately not good things

01:08:17.780 were happening on it but we we do like hand-to-hand combat training some firearms training and then this

01:08:24.980 wicked cold front comes in and i went to charge my phone and i kind of dozed off for a bit i wake up

01:08:31.780 to them pounding on my window pale horse pale horse man you're not gonna believe you got to get up i'm

01:08:35.620 like what's going on and they had went and stole a goat or a ram i still i've talked to owners of

01:08:41.780 both it had horns it's pretty big i don't know if it's a ram or a goat i still haven't figured it out

01:08:48.260 i've even googled it and i'm like i'm still i don't know i'm still lost i don't know uh but they called

01:08:54.260 it a goat and a ram they did both but they stole this ram from not too far away um almost got caught

01:09:01.060 doing it and you got a picture the the base members we all wore like fleck tarn camo because

01:09:07.700 that's the german camouflage pattern everything is the fleck what is the fleck tarn it's just it's

01:09:12.980 just the style of camouflage so not that anybody wearing fleck tarn as as has got to be a white

01:09:18.660 supremacist well it comes from germany but it's a german pattern right yeah you're master you gotta

01:09:23.700 figure that out but um they they woke me up and i go over there and man they've got this this ram

01:09:29.700 and it's crapping all over the bed of the truck and one of the dudes is like because they got their

01:09:34.100 balaclavas on their battle rattle which is their plate carriers gun belt all this stuff and uh all

01:09:41.540 fleck tarned out and and i remember one of the members dima he was like he goes man this thing's

01:09:46.820 crapping all over he said worded it different but he's like uh yeah this thing's crapping all over

01:09:50.420 the place and i said well man i would be too if a bunch of big dudes with masking jerked me out of my

01:09:56.180 backyard and threw me right so the guy that was going to be leading the blot which is supposed to

01:10:01.300 be the uh the the ceremony for paganism um was a guy named eisen and he was not necessarily like

01:10:11.540 a saw true certified he was just twisting it um but he was going to sacrifice the goat ram and he named

01:10:21.060 it gar because his middle name's garfield after his grandfather garfield and i'm like we're naming

01:10:25.860 the goat that we're going to sacrifice okay man and i remember walking up to him and i was like hey

01:10:32.500 is it bad that i feel sorry for the goat and he's like you said that yeah i said and he's like oh don't

01:10:37.540 let the goat hear you say that and i'm like oh crap it's too late i just had a conversation i'm pretty

01:10:46.100 sure he's thinking of the things right now you know um and and he said this we've got to show this

01:10:52.740 goat love we're going to be sacrificing this goat to odin it's going to valhalla to kick off the wild

01:10:58.820 hunt well in norse mythology norse mythology the wild hunt is essentially odin and some other gods

01:11:05.780 going out and just destroying their enemies all through the night and rape pillage kind of stuff

01:11:12.260 i don't i don't think it's a raven pill i think it's just destroy them yeah um but i'm not a guru

01:11:17.140 on it all right uh but what do you know you don't know the difference between a goat and a ram i

01:11:21.700 know right it looks the same i'm not gonna lie um but the uh he in his twisted version the wild hunt

01:11:30.820 after the sacrifice was going to be the kickoff of the wild hunt to the base neo-nazi accelerationist

01:11:38.740 movement was going to be uh us starting to cleanse the world of anti-fashion non-whites

01:11:46.500 um so i went over to my listening device one of my devices um won't say what it was where it was

01:11:55.380 from tradecraft but i mean heck i could have picked up a phone and called somebody but i'm like i tell

01:12:00.340 that because i know the case team's listening in there and they're covering me because i'm in the

01:12:04.260 i'm on this farm for four days so i'm covered for four days and i leaned in and i'm like hey

01:12:11.380 man uh i don't know if you guys heard basically but i think we're getting ready to go sacrifice

01:12:15.620 this animal and i'm running it through my mind i'm thinking as an undercover coordinator a senior

01:12:21.060 investigator i'm thinking all the policies i'm like laws i'm like i can't come up with a reason

01:12:28.420 in my head go to not go and and blow this whole thing i said but if you guys don't want me to do

01:12:33.620 this and you want me to shut it down or walk away give me a sign and i sat there and i waited

01:12:39.380 and i waited and i waited and i'm like this leaning over the device and i'm like

01:12:46.020 well i guess i'm going down to the woods for this sacrifice then you know however i worded it

01:12:51.140 and we went down in the woods and uh eisen said some things talking about the wild hunt

01:12:57.700 and what the sacrifice was going to be and he had something similar to a machete and he went to come

01:13:04.900 down on the back of his neck he was like he was like he's a pretty stocky kid he's he's like doing

01:13:10.100 his practice swings and bumps somebody's like just do it and we're all in a circle on our knees around

01:13:14.660 the goat um and ram whatever and i'm at the back of it i still don't know how i got at the back of it

01:13:21.460 wasn't the wisest thing but that's what i mean i guess like musical chairs that's the spot i got

01:13:26.260 yeah um and he comes down full-fledged with a with the blade and i don't even think it broke a hair

01:13:33.140 i don't know if the blade was dull or if the back strap of the ram was so thick but it just went

01:13:38.660 bad like that and i went oh man somebody's like hit it again do it again and somebody's like it's

01:13:44.420 probably gonna take more than one swing i guess he was picturing like a guillotine like the head

01:13:48.580 was gonna come off um and then somebody says does anybody have a gun we weren't supposed to bring

01:13:54.020 any weapons down there the one guy who was the least qualified to be handling a live firearm who

01:14:00.340 hadn't slept in probably two or three days was the guy who had the gun and it even shocked luke tmp

01:14:07.220 because me and luke were like what and he was like what are you doing and luke took the gun from him

01:14:11.380 hands it and it gets passed to eisen well eisen chambers around

01:14:15.460 points towards the goat ram the head and then looks away we're all in a circle so the instructor

01:14:23.860 in me comes out i'm like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa what are you doing and he's like what and i go man

01:14:29.380 look at what you're shooting we're all in a circle jack wagon you know i mean you know for odin and yeah

01:14:38.900 everything you know i mean we're supposed to look because he told me we didn't just show this goat

01:14:45.300 love this this goat is being blessed it needs to so he comes up he finally looks and puts it in

01:14:50.980 pow and you can hear it here on the recording punk you hear it fall on the ground it kicks for minutes

01:14:56.260 it's still shivering i'm like i don't know if it's dead or not i'm like man put another bullet in it

01:15:01.300 and he's like uh he goes i'm pretty sure it's dead and i go you know for the goat i mean it needs to

01:15:06.660 be show it love yeah love going to odin it's in valhalla kinda it's still wiggling finish it and

01:15:14.580 then he finished it and then they you think you're done and you're not they go and slice the throat of

01:15:19.220 the goat fill up a big cup with this blood and i'm holding a flashlight for eisen everybody's still on

01:15:26.500 their knees and we're going because we're in the middle of the woods it's pitch black um except for

01:15:30.500 the torches and i'm shining the light and he brought acid so now he's tearing off acid uh hits off the

01:15:37.380 sheet and giving it to members almost every member did it um a couple of us didn't um but uh gives them

01:15:46.100 that and they chase it with the blood as part of the sacrifice so by the time the cup gets to me

01:15:50.500 the blood is all coagulating it's chunky it's like clotted it's like it's like old thick egg

01:15:57.940 yokey looking and i'm looking going man i really don't want to drink this and i think it was eisen

01:16:02.900 that gave me an out he said you can just dip your finger and taste it it was getting i was like this

01:16:06.580 thing is getting thick and uh i dipped my whole finger down the blood sucking my mouth sucked all

01:16:11.220 sucked all the blood off and then they cut the head of it off uh threw its innards in the creek

01:16:18.340 some members tried to cook it uh it's the game it's not made for eating uh not made for eating

01:16:24.420 glenn that was the gamiest meat i've ever tasted in my entire life um and then we carried the head

01:16:30.820 around for like three more days and there's there was photos of us blasted all over bbc and because

01:16:38.020 it turns out there was another uh member of the base that was not law enforcement but was working

01:16:43.540 for like either southern poverty law center or something like that and uh he had gotten the

01:16:48.820 pictures and and that we didn't know where it was coming from but we eventually found out but that's

01:16:53.780 why it was the next thing you know it's all over the news and here we are and there i am in the picture

01:16:57.540 with them you can't tell because we're all covered up because nobody wants to get doxxed that was the

01:17:02.980 big thing with the with them is if you get doxxed then you lose the the far left was really good about

01:17:08.420 showing up and protesting at your house your kid's school your and then you lose everything because

01:17:14.180 everybody now knows you're white supremacist did you ever did you struggle because you are

01:17:22.740 your faith is so important did you ever struggle with i'm not kneeling at this goat and this sacrifice and

01:17:28.660 even letting this blood how did you deal with that i i would say yes and no because i know

01:17:35.380 my belief i'm right with my lord uh and i've talked to even pastors about it you know i'm like hey i'm

01:17:41.220 doing this you know because like my my tattoos on this whole arm it's viking warrior stuff but for me

01:17:47.860 it's the armor of god i've got the shield i've got the boots i've got the belt i've got the helmet i've got

01:17:53.460 it all in there and that's what it means to me and once i retired i put the ephesians uh verse on there

01:17:58.420 but uh i'm in work mode and i and and i i know that

01:18:06.580 somebody had to kick Satan out of heaven you know what i mean somebody so

01:18:09.780 the there was there was times uh where i've crashed mentally physically and i had to really

01:18:18.180 had to have a come to jesus meeting and pray and figure out am i ever going to be able to get back to

01:18:24.500 where i was at what hit me after all these days of praying is that it was what i heard was the

01:18:30.900 lord saying back son you would have never been able to do what you did well if it wasn't me for

01:18:35.300 blessing you in the first place so i know that i've been blessed with that and and i'm i'm doing that

01:18:43.140 uh i'm not i'm not really worshiping right right right yeah because there's a part in the there's

01:18:48.500 that same weekend there's a part in the book i go into detail about where we do a bonfire two days

01:18:54.180 after because the second day was completely blown because almost everybody did acid so there was no

01:19:00.660 training everybody was still high but um we had a bonfire uh burning bibles burning american flags

01:19:10.020 death to america f your jewish god all everything you can picture being yelled was being yelled there how

01:19:16.660 many people like 13 maybe um and uh that's been so you just like you just must at some point just go

01:19:26.660 this is your people are pathetic you have 13 people in the woods yeah you're pathetic well it's but they

01:19:34.180 found the bond they a lot of those guys have been bullied um uh are outcasts some of them are on the

01:19:42.340 spectrum a little bit uh autism spectrum um you've got uh can't get a partner and they sit in their

01:19:52.020 bedroom all night on this phone and dive down rabbit holes of hate and find like-minded people who have

01:19:58.020 been treated the same way so they've a lot i mean they some of them can be fixed they've just been led

01:20:06.580 down the wrong path um but yeah at that moment a little crazy a little crazy but they're burning

01:20:12.900 the bibles and uh we watched i watched the flames go up it's even on the video the propaganda video

01:20:18.740 you see them open face put it down in the fire and the fire goes up it comes back down um one of the

01:20:25.540 members is stoking the coals and you know now he's trying to get the fire going again and a bible flips

01:20:31.540 over opens up not a page burn on it singe on the edge and on the but pages he had to start tearing

01:20:38.100 them out page by page get the fire going again and i'm thinking that was pretty odd you know but

01:20:42.660 then people talk science they're like well some of the bibles the page is made out of clay it doesn't

01:20:46.500 burn i'm like whatever i watched it burn an american flag right now you know whatever uh so

01:20:53.940 flames go up it's dying back down yeah i start stoking the coals again second bible flips open

01:21:00.420 unburnt i wish i could have seen what book it was that would have been cool yeah but one of the

01:21:06.820 members said man these effing bibles just won't burn and i did my little i didn't do it

01:21:16.420 in my head i did it i did a little little sammy social day i look up i go that's pretty cool i get it

01:21:22.900 you know uh but yeah it's tough and i got to that weekend now i went i got home i felt dirty

01:21:28.260 um i reached out to my pastor and said man i may need you to pray over me a little bit you know and

01:21:34.180 and just get my head back in the game how'd your how'd your wife deal with all the time that you were

01:21:39.940 gone everything that you would go through come back home if you talk to her she says she just gave

01:21:45.460 it up to god because back in the outlaws case that would have been like 2005 to 2007 or 8 and

01:21:52.980 i didn't know um that's where i said i thought i was doing pretty good and i wasn't uh but she would

01:22:01.780 be so nervous uh and worried that she would just move furniture all the time i'd come home the house

01:22:07.460 would be completely right rearranged and she finally said look i got to give it up to god

01:22:12.740 because she can't control it you know and i'm like if it's my time to go it's my time to go you

01:22:17.700 know uh and i'm not going in lacks and i've got a skill set and i think i'm good at you know what i

01:22:22.900 do um and i think i'm doing it for the right reasons uh but even even towards the end of my

01:22:29.780 career like the base case uh we were sitting out and just talking and she's like she said something

01:22:36.660 about covering me and i kind of giggled because i'm like man we i was a narc when you met me you

01:22:41.540 know i mean i was like i mean we've been doing this for 20 something years um and she jerked a

01:22:47.780 knot in my tail she said listen it's i'm your wife and it's my job to cover you and when you're out

01:22:53.540 there on these undercovers i'm covering you in prayer and i man i i was like i am sorry i didn't mean to

01:22:58.340 giggle thank you and uh and that means a lot so yeah it's not and she's not a my my home in like a

01:23:08.020 military home you know where you can disappear for six months and the family still stays together

01:23:13.700 my mom would probably implode i don't know uh i'm not even sure if the house would be there when i

01:23:18.500 came back you know yeah i know um the uh the operation poetic justice and murder for for hire

01:23:29.700 um how often were you an assassin for hire or played that role yeah um a bunch actually

01:23:38.580 um i mean i mentioned the one the the pedophile who uh he knew that he wasn't going to do good

01:23:45.940 in prison and he had gotten locked up for a a purported molestation but while he was in san

01:23:53.540 antonio the jail bear county um he solicited somebody to help him find a hitman to kill this

01:24:01.780 kid because in his mind if the kid was dead no trial which is

01:24:05.460 on the scale of some of the murder for hours off that's not a that's not a bad plan um but

01:24:12.020 uh yeah i went in and i met him it was just two quick meets but i had to go sit in the

01:24:18.180 sit in the phone room with all the stainless steel with baby mamas and everybody yelling and screaming

01:24:23.060 and i'm trying to get a recording of this guy uh saying he wants to hire me to kill the kid

01:24:27.940 um and that was probably one of the quickest ones i've done but one of the most satisfying cases

01:24:32.820 oh i bet it was yeah i bet it was um can we just spend i just only have a couple minutes left but i

01:24:38.980 have to ask you you you the guy you that trained you is kind of the original badass uh broscoe

01:24:49.540 right yeah joe pistone yeah joe pistone is a still a friend he did graciously uh uh did a blurb on the

01:24:58.420 book um yeah i mean so in 1972 the fbi never worked undercover under hoover and pretty much when hoover went

01:25:07.460 out the door in 1972 they picked 25 undercovers there's a black and white picture of the first

01:25:13.780 ever undercovers in the fbi and they were like from philly new york really uh new work hoover didn't

01:25:20.740 do it no he didn't believe he didn't for whatever reason he didn't believe in undercover you just

01:25:24.900 believed in wiretaps yeah that's weird but uh so back then there was no attorney general guidelines

01:25:30.740 it's like here's this recorder about this big and here's a wad of money let's go make a case

01:25:34.580 so yeah joe did six years in in the mafia um and that safeguard process that we all do now or i'm

01:25:41.300 retired but if you're an active undercover uh you have to be psychologically assessed um it's mandatory

01:25:48.100 and that program was built by joe and uh another fbi agent who was a who was previously a psychologist

01:25:56.420 and that's that's uh to take care of make sure you're mentally stable your family is very important

01:26:02.660 um because we're type a personalities we'll go out there and keep saying yes and keep saying yes

01:26:07.380 yes i mean i cover it in the book there's at least twice i've just been two times i was put on time

01:26:14.500 out they're like they're like you're not recommended you are not going back on that undercover and i'm like

01:26:20.260 okay you know what's the closest you've come to either breaking the cover blowing it where is

01:26:32.980 there a time when you've gone oh crap well there's a bunch of there's a bunch of oh craps um

01:26:42.340 um but as far as blowing my cover just getting caught yeah just getting the biggest one's probably

01:26:49.140 the outlaws case that's where they took me down after a year and a half undercover um they uh a year

01:26:56.980 and a half undercover doing all those insurance things carjackings whatever and uh some dope stuff

01:27:04.260 uh we upped the ante um to do a a big shipment of drugs so they could be introduced because they've

01:27:10.020 been asking so they could be introduced to some cartel contacts because what does a drug dealer

01:27:13.940 want they want the highest purity product they can get for the lowest price they can get because then

01:27:18.980 they can step on it and you know and and make more money right um so imagine if you're in massachusetts

01:27:25.380 and you get a straight pipeline from mexico you're probably going to get some good stuff and uh we upped

01:27:31.540 the ante and then at that year and a half point they carried me down into the basement uh it's more

01:27:36.660 like a crawl space of the clubhouse um and stripped me at gunpoint looking for a wire the problem was

01:27:42.500 is i was wired to the hilt and they almost they almost found it it was close it was close and

01:27:48.500 what are you going to do i'm like even if you think you're a tough person and you can fight

01:27:52.500 you're in a crawl space basement whatever i can't stand up straight i could probably touch the wall on

01:27:57.460 both sides um they've already shown me their pistols i'm not free to leave and even if i could get past

01:28:04.580 those two guys without getting shot you got everybody upstairs i got another probably 10

01:28:08.660 upstairs with the door locked with the metal bar across it and everything else um and it came close

01:28:14.180 like i i had a no crap moment adrenaline dump um your auditory exclusion happens your time dilation

01:28:21.460 happens in your eyes everything you sees and screen grabs everything slows down everything you hear is

01:28:27.140 going whoosh whoosh real slow um and what seems like an hour is probably a couple of minutes

01:28:34.820 and um i took all my clothes off i wrote down my name and everything they wanted me to

01:28:42.820 um i was panicking like crazy you can clearly hear that my voice does not sound like this

01:28:48.580 my throat is a lot tighter my pitch is a lot higher um some of my diction is terrible because

01:28:53.700 i'm talking through my nose because i'm freaking out and um i thought i was done

01:28:59.060 and then clothesline who was supposed to be my buddy um not the fbi undercover buddy but you know

01:29:07.700 the scott calloway buddy um he uh he grabbed a piece of clothing and that piece of clothing had

01:29:14.660 some equipment in it and he starts kneading it with his fingers you know he's like working it he

01:29:20.500 cracked the joke he's like hey man i'm not gonna find anything in here i don't want to like some

01:29:24.580 naked pictures of my old lady and i'm like i hope not you know uh but i'm watching him do this and

01:29:31.860 i don't even know i do it you can hear me on the recording go

01:29:37.140 because i mean what am i gonna do you know and he looked right at it and missed it wow

01:29:43.700 by that much by that much there's crazy there's crazy things like that because that's another it

01:29:49.060 goes back to my faith um that night when i called my wife uh i'd always called her uh

01:29:58.260 especially during that case i gave her like a covert phone a burner phone i bought and set up so i could

01:30:03.380 call her um from my undercover phone and i called her that night and the first thing she said is are you

01:30:09.380 okay and i was like yeah why she said man i was driving in mccallum with the girls our girls were

01:30:15.700 little at that time about like three in one and uh she said i just got this overwhelming feeling

01:30:21.700 and i pulled over on the side of the road and started praying for you and that's when i was

01:30:25.140 in the basement i looked at the time that's when i was in the basement so wow yeah that's some freaky

01:30:30.580 freaky stuff but i mean there's been other things where like you know somebody's got a double barrel

01:30:35.620 shotgun with both hammers cocked back like this on the table pointing at you going my brother and his

01:30:40.580 brother's right there my brother says you're a cop and you're looking at his brother going he's right

01:30:45.540 because i arrested him when i used to be a uniform patrol you know how do you get out of that oh

01:30:50.420 did you get out i started counter accusing deny counter-accusing um because i didn't have near

01:30:58.260 as much training back then that was when i was at the sheriff's office but you know you find yourself

01:31:03.060 in a situation again with another case poetic justice you brought it up guys got a shotgun double

01:31:08.980 barrel hammers cocked back i should learn my lesson with those i guess um and he's uh he's like he's

01:31:14.500 already told me if i find out you're the law you're a dead man you hear me if i find out you're

01:31:18.740 the law you're a dead man and then i i did something to bolster my bona fides to bolster myself is looking

01:31:25.700 like i know what i'm doing like i'm really a criminal and it and i i overstepped my bounds i

01:31:31.060 underestimated and he it's a chess game he he got me on that one the next thing i know i'm gonna say

01:31:36.500 what you did yeah i i told him that uh i've been like hey man that dope that i bought last time from

01:31:42.420 his relative it was weak and it was and any dealer or user is gonna know and they're gonna come back

01:31:49.060 and be like hey what the hell was that you sell you sold me you know and i told him i said oh yeah

01:31:53.220 i said that stuff was weak man he goes well this isn't try this and i was like oh and and next thing

01:32:00.420 you know i've got a red bone hound in my crotch and that thing was mean mean i was like you just

01:32:06.180 didn't move you're just like because it's going like touching you and you're like okay and then

01:32:12.340 he's got the shotgun and then there's an open bag of cocaine in my face and he's like just do it

01:32:16.980 just do it and and i'm like i i'm talking and i'm like man i told you i don't do it i'm laying out

01:32:22.740 everything that i think i could lay out that i for me and my story and uh then i realized it was it

01:32:28.980 this is his test and i even said i said so this is your test this is it and uh i just did some

01:32:35.060 real quick hand movement and i didn't ingest anything and uh i was pissed i let him know i

01:32:41.860 was pissed but as soon as that happened you have to be able to see is this situation deteriorating

01:32:46.820 clearly it was but as soon as i did that he immediately everything was fine and he's like

01:32:53.140 hey come to the back room here's all the dope my my relatives are a cop blah blah blah blah blah and

01:32:58.180 i mean it was it was it was good to go after that but i i shouldn't let that happen you know

01:33:06.340 but again it's a chess game you're trying to stay moves ahead while you're still connecting

01:33:10.340 with people and gaining trust i have to tell you i think i should have worn depends just for this

01:33:14.260 interview i would have peed my pants i don't know how many times if i were you but i'm glad people

01:33:19.220 like you were out there thank you so much well thanks for having me and you know it's an honor i mean

01:33:23.940 again it's a calling you don't do it for money yeah no you don't do it for fame i mean there are

01:33:28.180 men and women out there that have done way more than i have undercover and and uh you know i've been

01:33:35.140 blessed so i'm just trying to trying to pay it forward yeah you know thank you thank you thank you

01:33:40.340 appreciate it just a reminder i'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this

01:33:51.940 this on to a friend so it can be discovered by other people

01:34:10.660 you

The Glenn Beck Program - May 17, 2025

Ep 257 ｜ Undercover FBI Agent Battled a DEMONIC Underworld ｜ Scott Payne ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

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