In this episode of the Glenn Beck Show, host Glenn Beck sits down with author and journalist Bill McKibben to discuss his new book, The Army of the Antichrist and how it relates to the Islamic fundamentalists.
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00:01:19.460It makes it very clear that this is the last kingdom of man who will exist as a superpower in the last days before the Messiah returns and he destroys all these kingdoms.
00:01:33.020But what scares me is not the Alkhamanis of the world as much as it is the Mandanis.
00:01:37.580In many countries, especially Europe today, you probably would be in jail for saying a lot of this stuff.
00:01:42.840If things are getting darker, it doesn't push me away from God.
00:01:54.740Bill, you look at the Bible like I look at the news.
00:01:59.300I, you know, God gives some people a special ability, I think, to see dots, you know, things that are not necessarily connected and be able to go, no, that those all belong over here.
00:02:13.720And, um, you see patterns in the Bible and I see patterns in the news.
00:02:20.220And one of the things I remember saying to one of my researchers back in 2004, maybe, was, would you go and look at the ideology or the, uh, the, um, Escal, Escal, Escal, how do you say that word?
00:02:39.820Would you go back and look at the eschatology of the 12ers?
00:02:43.680Because with what they were saying, I thought if there, it, it's gotta be the opposite of ours.
00:02:54.780You know, their good guy has to be our bad guy and our bad guy has to be their good guy.
00:02:58.620He came back to me a couple of months later and said, how did you know?
00:03:00.960And I'm like, I don't, I didn't know, but it just fits.
00:03:04.300And ever since then, I've been looking at the people in Iran that are running the country that are the true believers, the 12, the 12ers from Shia.
00:03:13.420As this is the army of the Antichrist.
00:03:18.180That is such a crazy statement to make.
00:03:22.040Can you, can you kind of flesh that out with actual facts?
00:03:26.520Well, first of all, let me say, I agree with you, um, but it is important for people to understand that, you know, whether it's the news or whether it's the scripture, there are these patterns.
00:03:37.760And, you know, the Bible even tells us in Isaiah chapter 46, and I'll paraphrase it.
00:03:43.820If you want to understand what's going on in the end, you have to go back and understand the beginning because God tells us the end by telling us the beginning.
00:03:50.900In other words, there are patterns throughout all of these scriptures.
00:03:54.980So when we go back from the very beginning, you can, you can kind of see the story, all these dots that you referred to that if you're dancing over it, you're just trying to read through the Bible in a year, you'll never see it.
00:04:06.540But if you want to look below the surface and, you know, understand that there are some things to kind of dig out from below the surface, there's some real treasure there in terms of knowledge and understanding and then wisdom.
00:04:18.080So as it relates to your statement about Shia and the army of the Antichrist, he is the beast, the Antichrist, the son of perdition, whatever term you want to use there.
00:04:31.640He doesn't come posing as Christ, as some people have, you know, said.
00:04:45.160Their philosophy is that he comes and their philosophy is that he would come at the end, Christ would come to testify that this is the real God.
00:05:18.580But I'm here to point you to the true faith now, which, according to the Bible, Glenn, that right there is the definition of the spirit of Antichrist.
00:05:28.940So we can very, very plainly, very confidently apply that definition, the spirit of Antichrist, to what we see, particularly in Shia Islam and the Twelver Doctrine and the Al-Mahdi, the Twelfth Imam, who's going to come back and basically rule the world and expand the influence of Islam throughout the globe.
00:05:52.140Where, again, Jesus plays this secondary role in their theology.
00:05:57.720So that's why I say I don't believe that the Antichrist, the beast, the Twelfth Imam comes posing as the Jesus figure, if you will.
00:06:09.800He comes upon everything he is and is for.
00:06:13.420So that's, you know, kind of a concise definition, I guess.
00:06:17.520Okay, so can we put this into perspective, and please break this down for people who don't, you know, they don't read the Bible every day, they're not familiar, you know, they might be familiar with the high points, but break it down as simply as possible.
00:06:33.980Because we are talking about Iran, and you say that you can look at the Arab Spring to Mamdani and show the dots on what is actually happening.
00:08:17.160And this is very early on, it's associated with the east.
00:08:21.280So we're in Babylon, we're in Mesopotamia, we're in the land of Shinar, we're in the area that would become Iran, Iraq, and all these different places.
00:08:31.180Then we come on down the road, and you've got a guy named Joseph, who is in Egypt.
00:08:38.500Don't have time to go through all that story.
00:08:40.700Read your Bible, you'll find out how he got there.
00:08:42.640But he is put in a position of power whereby the people of God, Israel, is going to be spared, and for that matter, everybody during a time of famine.
00:08:52.320But there is a dream that Nebuchadnezzar has, excuse me, not Nebuchadnezzar, Pharaoh.
00:08:57.260There's a dream that he has in which an east wind blows.
00:09:01.620And this east wind actually causes everything to be blighted, to be scorched, and it initiates a seven-year famine.
00:09:10.400So there's, the east is associated with rebels.
00:09:17.700It's an east wind that brings in a plague of locusts into Egypt later on in the days of Moses, that they cover the entire earth.
00:09:27.760And so just this little bit in the very beginning of the story, things that are associated with the east, and we're not talking the far east.
00:09:37.140We're talking about the east, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, these areas, that the Bible starts establishing a pattern that there are things that come from that area that are in opposition to God's purpose.
00:09:51.860And so, again, this is the spirit of Antichrist starting to show itself.
00:09:55.680Can I ask you, is there a pattern with the number seven as well?
00:10:35.080But anyway, just going ahead very quickly here, and I'm trying to develop or connect the dots between what the east represents in the Bible as it relates to what's going on in the east today.
00:10:49.900The Middle East, and how there are these factions, there's this ideology, there are these armies, to borrow from a word you said earlier, that always are, they're always predisposed to come against God, come against God's people, come against Israel, come against believers in the Messiah.
00:11:11.540In Joel, it's an army of locusts that invades the land to chew, devour, to consume.
00:11:20.620And so if you start seeing that pattern develop, you realize that something is going to come from the east, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, these places that is going to be in opposition to God's purpose on the earth.
00:11:36.340So when you start seeing things like Iran and the 1979 revolution and how Persia becomes this different kind of nation, Iran, under the Mullahs and the Khomeini's and people like that, and you see this continual aggression toward Israel, against America, people who believe in the Bible, things like that.
00:11:59.020You see that the spirit of Antichrist has been at work in the world, again, not posing as the Christ, but opposing the Christ, opposing his people, trying to destroy them, undermine them.
00:12:13.240That's why it's, you know, the United States is big Satan, Israel is little Satan.
00:12:18.780That's why you've got people marching around, saying from the river to the sea.
00:12:34.460There is so much anti-Israel stuff that, from Christians, for the first time, I believe, Americans are siding with the Palestinians over Israel.
00:12:49.160And to me, it's, I mean, it's just shocking, you know, but I made my mind up about the, you know, Israel and what God says about Israel a long time ago.
00:12:59.700But explain why that is so important to understand the role of Israel and, and, and not being on the wrong side of that.
00:13:15.660Sometimes, well, it's common for us to get our eyes on a person, you know, or a policy or something like that.
00:13:25.140You know, there's a lot of people who hate Trump.
00:13:26.980There's a lot of people who love Trump.
00:13:28.440You know, there, I don't think there's a lot of in between, but a lot of times people, they're focused on the person.
00:13:35.120They're focused on the personality, not necessarily the purpose.
00:13:39.480And so when it comes to Israel, the same is true.
00:13:42.140A lot of people can get focused on, well, I don't like Netanyahu, or I don't like their policy where Gaza is concerned or the, the so-called West Bank.
00:13:51.680But what we need to do is people who believe the Bible, who believe it is the word of God, we need to look beyond the person and the policy and see the purpose.
00:14:03.140God has sworn that where Israel is concerned, I've engraved you on my hand.
00:14:07.960If I can't forget you, you know, until the heavens and the earth pass away, you know, I can't forget you.
00:14:40.860I would dare say that a lot of those people, and this is just my opinion, I think a lot of those people have completely discounted all of the scripture that comes left of Matthew.
00:14:52.100By that, I mean the Old Testament, and they base their theology and their positions on everything from Matthew to the end of Revelation, which means they skip over all the promises that God has made to Israel, what God has said he's going to do with Israel.
00:15:07.180There are so many times when God would raise up a nation to correct Israel when they were in the wrong.
00:15:14.960But if those nations took it too far, God would turn right around and he would deal with them.
00:15:20.180And there's a lot of scriptures that address that too.
00:15:23.440I mean, it is very bothersome that people who profess to be Christians, Bible believers, are taking this position because as far as I'm concerned, they are aligning themselves with people who say from the river to the sea.
00:16:15.620That's what river from the river to the sea means.
00:16:18.460So when we align ourselves with people who chant those things, who align themselves with people who are Hamas or Hezbollah and things like this, that, again, is that spirit of Antichrist rising up.
00:16:55.080So take me to, you know, our special next week is all about the blueprint of the Islamization of America and the West and how it has combined with the Marxists, which I think is an absolute evil ideology.
00:17:15.360They have combined with the Marxists and it's the green and red alliance, if you will, and also the the Islamists and they have a friendship.
00:17:26.360And this has happened before in the past.
00:17:29.360I mean, that's that was the revolution in Iran.
00:17:31.880The Marxists are all killed in the end.
00:17:34.100Can you tell me any patterns on this combination and what you're seeing, the spread of Islam throughout the West and what happens?
00:17:46.220Let me briefly go back to the locusts in Egypt, that east wind that brought them.
00:17:52.120When the locusts came in, that was the eighth of 10 plagues, which in a way, in my mind, the pattern is the locusts come in, they devour everything.
00:18:01.400Then you have darkness, spiritual darkness, and then you have death, the death of the firstborn in Revelation chapter nine, a pit is opened and you have these locusts like things come out.
00:18:16.320But that is what is the forerunner, if you will, of the beast who comes from the pit.
00:18:22.240So as it relates to the question, 9-11, 25 years ago now, you would, at that point in time, people were just awakened to the threat that radical Islam is.
00:18:38.080Because 25 years later, we've got people in this nation who are aligning themselves philosophically with the same people who brought that terror to America.
00:18:54.820So, back in Daniel, the book of Daniel, Daniel's in Babylon.
00:19:02.300Remember, Nimrod's the one who established that.
00:19:04.700Now, Nebuchadnezzar's the king of Babylon, and he has a dream, by the way, that God gave him.
00:19:09.840That's always been fascinating to me, that the dream that was given to Pharaoh, the dream that was given to Nebuchadnezzar, these two pagan kings, idol-worshipping kings, God gave them the dream.
00:19:21.840But he didn't give them the ability to understand it.
00:19:27.940But Nebuchadnezzar has this dream, and he sees this image of a man, and it frightens him.
00:19:32.760It's got a head of gold, chest and arms of silver, belly and thighs of brass, and it's got two iron legs.
00:19:37.080And then you come down to the end, and it's two feet ironed, mingled with clay.
00:19:42.420And it makes it very clear that this is the last kingdom of man who will exist as a superpower in the last days before the Messiah returns and he destroys all these kingdoms.
00:19:56.180So, real quick, feet are intended to trample.
00:20:01.060This goes back to a prophecy in Genesis chapter 3.
00:20:04.380I'm a teacher, so if I ramble and get off on a little trail, you have to bring me back to the main course here.
00:20:11.580But if people will stay with me here for just a moment.
00:20:15.440Back in Genesis chapter 3, when the woman took the fruit from a tree that was good and evil,
00:20:23.120she was shown a fruit that presented itself as good, but the good was just to camouflage the evil.
00:20:30.540And by the time she had ingested that and then given it to her husband, who then ate it,
00:20:36.040when they realized they were naked, it was too late.
00:21:19.120And God is the one who put that distinction between the two.
00:21:22.160So, that's important for people to understand how the adversary works.
00:21:27.640He wants to come present something as if it were good, concealing the evil in it all the while.
00:21:36.620So, we come back to Nebuchadnezzar now.
00:21:39.260This dream that he has of this image that has two feet and the iron is mixed.
00:21:48.160It's mingled with the clay, suggesting that something very fierce, something very strong is going to be mixed with something that's more fragile, comparatively speaking.
00:21:59.120So, that word in Hebrew, or actually it's in Aramaic, but it coincides with the Hebrew.
00:22:05.760The word that is translated four times as mixed or mingled in Nebuchadnezzar's dream, the two feet, iron, mingled with clay, is the root word al-rav.
00:22:18.680And that is why almost a thousand years ago, there was a gentleman, a Jewish philosopher and commentator by the name of Abraham Ibn Ezra,
00:22:26.620who predicted that in the last days that East and West would intermingle, that Christianity, the remnants of Christianity, and the followers of Ishmael and Islam would intermingle for a while before the very end came.
00:22:48.220So, as it relates to people embracing these ideologies, these positions that take this anti-Israel stance, and quite honestly, if you really dig into a lot of it, you'll find that it's not just anti-Israel, it's anti-God, it's anti-His word, and people who truly believe that.
00:23:09.760But it's because their spirit is so pervasive, and it's so persuasive, that if people aren't really rooted in what the Scripture says, they're going to be seduced to think that something that really is evil looks good, just like the woman she took and she ate it,
00:23:29.160because she thought it was something to be desired, it was something to be longed for.
00:23:33.780And then she convinced her husband to partake of it as well.
00:23:37.260They realized they were naked, and then they were sent out of the garden toward the east, by the way.
00:24:03.640He tries to erase all those boundaries.
00:24:05.620He tries to get rid of all those boundaries, and he tries to replace it with something that mixes things together that were never to be mixed together.
00:24:14.180And that's what we see going on right now.
00:24:16.540It's amazing to me, because I keep saying, look, if you look at true Marxism, what some of these really zealot Marxists are saying,
00:24:29.580you look at the Islamists, and then you look at some of these progressive things like made up in Canada, it's a death cult.
00:24:39.560And it has always shocked me that people can't see.
00:25:08.980There's a passage in Scripture that says that because people did not want the truth, they didn't love the truth, they didn't want the truth.
00:25:19.120And so, as a result, God sends them a strong delusion that they should believe the lie.
00:25:26.120So, it's kind of like when Israel was in the wilderness and they've been eating manna for all these years, and they finally said, you know, we're really tired of all this manna.
00:25:37.640And really what they were wanting was what Egypt had to provide.
00:25:41.560So, the Bible says that God sent them quail.
00:25:45.080But He sent them, He said, you're not going to eat it one day, ten days.
00:25:47.900You're going to eat it 30 days until it's coming out your nostrils and it becomes loathsome to you.
00:25:51.740Point being, when people set their hearts on what they want in opposition to what God says is best for you,
00:26:00.000there will come a time that God says, all right, I'm going to give you what you want, but you're not going to like it.
00:26:05.360I'm going to give you what you want to teach you what you want, it's not what you need.
00:26:09.680And so, I believe, Glenn, I'm convinced of this, that what we are seeing is this strong delusion that is being sent to people who do not love the truth.
00:27:15.400But when you see the pattern, you can't unsee it.
00:27:19.480When you see how this connects to that, you see it showing up in all these things that are happening right in front of you.
00:27:25.480So, in regard to people just giving in to this philosophy and this ideology that you would think they would be, it would be anathema to them.
00:28:55.400You've agreed to keep that covenant with God.
00:28:57.720And then you forsake that covenant with God.
00:29:00.080And he sends you warning after warning after warning after warning.
00:29:03.080And finally, he says, okay, you want to believe the lie, you're going to get the lie.
00:29:09.360And he sends out the curse over the whole earth as a consequence of people who were in covenant with God, who know the covenant with God, but who have broken the covenant with God.
00:29:23.000And so, I can't overlook that and think that that's just some weird happenstance, some cosmic coincidence.
00:29:33.360I believe it's God's way of saying, this is why this is happening in your world.
00:29:37.840This is why this is happening in America.
00:29:41.840A nation who, I believe, asked God to enter into covenant with us.
00:29:46.280And just one other thing on that note, that same word, Glenn, Allah, translated curse, Daniel prays that or acknowledges that when he's praying about why did we end up in Babylonian captivity?
00:30:01.740And he realized it's because we didn't hear your prophets.
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00:34:09.980Because I guarantee you that the radical Islamists in Iran, in Iraq, and those that are here in this nation right now, absolutely do see it as a spiritual issue.
00:34:23.000They see it as, they're destined, in their theology, they're destined to rule the world.
00:36:03.800If there were only 10, but he was going to do it because of the one.
00:36:07.040So, it becomes a matter of the people who truly believe in the God of Israel, the God of the Bible, who believe his word, for us to humble ourselves.
00:36:18.680And if we do that, he says, you know what?
00:47:06.980And he's getting people's hearts prepared for what's about to happen.
00:47:10.900But when his mission has been fulfilled, he says, now I must decrease so that he may increase.
00:47:16.960And so when, I don't know, but I believe that America has, has, well, America was raised up for a godly purpose, a covenantal purpose.
00:47:30.220You know, you've got men like Winther inviting God, please come into covenant with us.
00:47:36.520And if we are true to this covenant, then our prosperity and our blessing will be evident.
00:47:44.100We'll, we'll be this shining city on a hill.
00:47:47.920But if we abandon that covenant, then we will be a parable and a byword.
00:47:53.800And he took all of that from what Moses had to say to Israel.
00:47:57.120So I don't know how you feel about it, but there are two unique nations in the history of the world.
00:48:03.220As far as I'm concerned, Israel, because God invited them to come into covenant with him.
00:48:08.400United States of America, because we asked God to come into covenant with us.
00:48:13.640In Hebrew, the United States is known as the lands of the covenant.
00:48:20.060But what happens if we break that covenant?
00:48:22.160What happens if we turn our back on that covenant?
00:48:23.960According to the prophecy in Zechariah, he sends out the curse.
00:48:28.580But if he does that, just like he did in the days of Gideon, when these, these people from the east were coming in, what was that intended to do?
00:48:36.020It was intended to provoke repentance, brokenness, to return to the covenant.
00:48:52.200He's coming to rule and to reign from Jerusalem.
00:48:55.220And so all nations will go up to Jerusalem to worship the king in that day, which means that all nations have had to decrease and to bow to his purpose for Israel.
00:49:09.380But I pray, and I know you feel this way as well, that when that day comes, it's not because he's had to put us under the heel of some tyrant, but it's because we are on our knees in submission to his purpose and his will.
00:49:27.080That we gladly lay aside our crowns, so to speak, so that his purpose will, will go forward and that the purpose for this nation will have been fulfilled righteously.
00:49:39.500So I know that really doesn't answer your question.
00:49:54.140Bill, do you think that there has been, I mean, because I've thought about World War II.
00:49:59.300I mean, the apostles thought it was right around the corner, too.
00:50:02.560But, you know, I was thinking about World War II.
00:50:04.540If you saw, you know, Adolf Hitler coming about, you'd be like, wow, that seems like an antichrist figure.
00:50:10.880Now, you didn't have things that, you know, big prophecies that had not been fulfilled yet.
00:50:15.660But I can imagine that people felt, the average people that knew the Bible somewhat had to have felt, boy, are we entering the end times?
00:50:24.140Um, now you have the prophecies fulfilled.
00:50:31.080I mean, what's left to fulfill before, you know, what's left before we could say, yeah, it looks like this might be the time.
00:50:42.520I think that what's going on right now in Iran may have a really big role in that.
00:50:54.420I, again, I'm not, well, there are, it seems to me that there are some things that have to happen.
00:51:01.500There are particular battles that are described in Scripture for us that have not yet taken place.
00:51:06.700Ezekiel 38 and 39 describe some of those.
00:51:09.860And I believe that this formation of this last kingdom that we're talking about, I call it the mingled kingdom, that has to take shape before Messiah returns.
00:51:19.720He returns when that kingdom or that power is in power.
00:52:27.140And there are principalities that are over these different regions of the earth, and they influence people in those regions.
00:52:34.480Daniel talks about how he prayed and fasted for 21 days.
00:52:37.540And the angel finally appears that God heard you the first day, but I've been detained by the prince of Persia.
00:52:44.180He's talking about a principality, some, you know, spiritual entity that's over that land.
00:52:49.940And he said, I got to hurry now because the prince of Greece is coming.
00:52:52.880Point being, there is a principality that is over that region of the world that hates God's purpose.
00:52:58.680So when if the Ayatollahs are on their way out and this radical iron-fisted government is removed and there's a temporary return to some semblance of democracy, I don't know how long it's going to last.
00:53:16.740Because these battles that has to take place in Ezekiel 38 and 9, as it relates to the last days, one of the names of the nations is Persia.
00:53:27.460I wouldn't even be surprised if they revert to the old name.
00:54:04.320But it's a major event as it relates to, as far as I'm concerned, how all these other things in the last days fall into place.
00:54:14.480Might it be that the Islamists see that if you're a Khomeini or one of these really awful, obviously blatantly evil men, that's not going to work when the West, like the United States, is so powerful.
00:54:35.400We're going to have to take another route here if we're willing to advance our goal of global domination.
00:54:41.140Maybe we have to find somebody that kind of poses as someone of the West with Western values, so to speak, but yet is one of us, you know, the Mandanis of the world, for instance.
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00:55:55.360I know that I didn't always have this point of view.
00:55:59.980And maybe it's because I'm getting older, but I, uh, you don't always get what you want.
00:56:09.360And sometimes when you do get what you want, you really regret it.
00:56:11.780And the only thing, you know, that has brought me comfort in the days of the darkest of days, looking at the news and looking how all of this is coming up.
00:56:23.600And I mean, you can see we are headed for a war with Islam, whether it's over Iran or Europe or, you know, the United States.
00:57:47.620And so even though we walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, your rod, your staff, comfort me, your word, your correction, your reproof, always working on me.
00:58:02.820That's what gives me comfort to abide under the shadow of the almighty.
00:58:07.140You know, a thousand are falling over here.
00:58:10.260Ten thousand are falling over here, but it doesn't come near to you.
00:58:13.400The psalmist says, because you've, you've put your trust, your confidence in the Lord.
00:58:24.920I, I fear for the future of my children and my grandchildren.
00:58:27.860What kind of a world are they going to have if Messiah doesn't return next Tuesday, but that concern, I guess, should be provocation for me to be as close to the Lord as I possibly can.
00:58:42.640And to show them by example today, to, to know the truth, to live the truth, to speak the truth, regardless of what everybody else around you is doing, because it's been those people that the God of Israel has used.
00:58:59.800Shadrach, Meshach, Avednego, people who were in Babylon, they work for the government, by the way, but you know, the story, Nebuchadnezzar, actually the image he saw, the head of gold represented him.
00:59:29.700But the most powerful man on earth, Nebuchadnezzar, in that day, he looked into the pit and he didn't see the three.
00:59:35.720He saw four and one likened to the son of man.
00:59:39.040And he, because of that, he confessed that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is God.
00:59:47.640So maybe, maybe in your world, me and my world and others, whatever we do, whatever we do for the kingdom, what we've been doing all this time is just preparing for what's about to happen.
01:00:01.260To be, to be full of the truth, to be armed with the truth, and to be committed to deliver that truth, regardless of what the circumstances around us are.
01:00:15.220That darkness that is coming upon the world is, it serves to amplify and accentuates the light that burns within it.
01:00:26.600When the darkness that followed the locusts, and I know I keep going back to that, and there's a whole lot more to that, but the darkness that fell on Egypt followed the locust.
01:00:36.320But, it said that this darkness whereby the Egyptians couldn't even venture out of their homes, it says there was light in Goshen.
01:00:44.920And God used the darkness to amplify the light.
01:00:49.740And when Israel finally did leave Egypt, there was a lot of Egyptians that left with them, because we're going to follow this God.
01:00:56.120Because this God is God, you know, that's what Nebuchadnezzar, the God of Abraham, excuse me, the God of these three men is God.
01:01:06.720So maybe, maybe what we want isn't necessarily what God has for us, but what God has for us is so much more than what we could ever want.
01:01:22.660Well, Bill, I thank you so much for being on with us.