The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1013 - Cameron Hanes

00:00:00.000 What?

00:00:00.000 Set a record for consecutive wins.

00:00:02.000 Oh, they did.

00:00:02.000 I know.

00:00:03.000 20-some?

00:00:09.000 Yes!

00:00:10.000 And we're live, Cam Haynes.

00:00:12.000 Flip that sucker over so you don't get any distractions.

00:00:14.000 Oh, sorry.

00:00:15.000 See?

00:00:15.000 That's what happens.

00:00:16.000 Jed.

00:00:16.000 Jed already chimed in.

00:00:17.000 This motherfucker's right in the other room. 1.00

00:00:19.000 He's got to text you.

00:00:20.000 Make sure you say this.

00:00:21.000 Make sure you do that.

00:00:23.000 We just got back from an epic elk hunt in the mountains of Utah.

00:00:27.000 We did.

00:00:28.000 Epic is the right word.

00:00:29.000 You know, I think people throw around Epic a little loosely.

00:00:32.000 They do.

00:00:33.000 Not this time.

00:00:34.000 No, no.

00:00:35.000 God, man, it was amazing.

00:00:36.000 Yeah.

00:00:37.000 First of all, the place was incredible.

00:00:39.000 The mountains up there were just...

00:00:40.000 The scenery was just stunning.

00:00:42.000 Like, everywhere you look, your jaws dropped.

00:00:44.000 You're like, whoa.

00:00:45.000 Yeah.

00:00:45.000 It was amazing.

00:00:46.000 Everything about it.

00:00:48.000 Yeah.

00:00:48.000 I mean, but especially the scenery, just the mountains that they live in there, they're rugged, they're beautiful, and, you know, the Quakies haven't even turned yet.

00:00:58.000 Normally...

00:00:59.000 It seems like by this time, that's all yellow.

00:01:02.000 Like all those white trees.

00:01:03.000 Yeah, the aspens.

00:01:04.000 Yeah.

00:01:05.000 Why do you call them quakeys?

00:01:06.000 Quaking aspens?

00:01:08.000 Quaking aspens.

00:01:09.000 Yeah.

00:01:09.000 I've never heard them called quakeys until this past weekend.

00:01:12.000 Call them quakeys. 1.00

00:01:12.000 Or this past week, rather. 1.00

00:01:13.000 Everybody's calling them quakeys.

00:01:14.000 I'm like, what are you guys talking about?

00:01:15.000 Yeah, that's a photo that I took from up there.

00:01:17.000 Yeah.

00:01:17.000 Fuck, man.

00:01:18.000 Everywhere we look, it was just like...

00:01:21.000 There was too many moments with Elk that I couldn't film because I was just so engrossed in the idea of getting it done and the hunting aspect of it that I didn't want to pull my phone out and be taking pictures every five minutes.

00:01:34.000 Be the tourist.

00:01:35.000 Yeah, I took a few here and there, but there were so many moments that I'm so glad that Under Armour filmed this whole thing.

00:01:42.000 So we're going to have a film of it that's going to be released online, so people are going to get it.

00:01:46.000 A chance to check out how just incredible and epic and maybe just get a tiny sense of what we talk about when we talk about how amazing it is to do this.

00:01:55.000 Yeah, and we had the right guys filming it because, you know, there's all sorts of different levels of especially hunting films.

00:02:01.000 I mean, there's guys out there just with a handy cam, you know, just trying to do the best they can to share their experience.

00:02:07.000 And then there's guys like Mark Womack and his crew with Sub7 that make films.

00:02:13.000 I mean, you know, he's filmed me.

00:02:16.000 There's an episode called Roy's Buck, A Whitetail Hunt in Colorado.

00:02:20.000 Did he do the Time episode?

00:02:22.000 Time, yeah.

00:02:23.000 That one's amazing.

00:02:24.000 That's really good.

00:02:25.000 Oregon Elk Hunt.

00:02:25.000 And so those are not just your typical, what people might think of as a hunting film.

00:02:30.000 Those are just, you know, or hunting video.

00:02:32.000 These are true films.

00:02:33.000 Well, it's a short film and it's really almost like a mini-documentary of how you're trying to balance your life and training and running and competing in these ultra-marathons and then also working a full-time job and then also going out and bowhunting.

00:02:48.000 And it's really well done.

00:02:51.000 So those same guys filmed us.

00:02:54.000 Man, do we got some epic footage.

00:02:56.000 Just epic.

00:02:57.000 Yeah, and like you said, hopefully gives a glimpse for people that haven't experienced it or aren't hunters maybe, just to see everything that's involved in the hunt and how powerful it is and just the wild animals out there interacting with each other and then how we fit in that formula.

00:03:17.000 It's crazy.

00:03:19.000 It's one of those things that I really think our words, like people will be intrigued by the words, but I don't think we're ever going to be able to put it in their head, what we experienced.

00:03:31.000 Because there was one point in time where Jameson and Colton and I were together in the woods, and I just stopped, and as we were walking towards this elk that was screaming, and there was a screaming elk all around us, and you hear these cow elk that are making this meow.

00:03:47.000 And screaming is bugling.

00:03:49.000 Yeah.

00:03:49.000 Screaming.

00:03:49.000 We call it screaming, but it's part of the mating ritual, basically, of the male elk.

00:03:55.000 Yeah.

00:03:56.000 And they're just bugling, and we call it screaming because it's just like echoing.

00:04:01.000 It's like...

00:04:04.000 That's what it sounds like.

00:04:05.000 There's a little higher, a couple higher notes in there, but yeah.

00:04:08.000 Yeah, well some of them are like, some of them have a growl too.

00:04:11.000 Yeah, it starts deep, it goes high usually, comes back deep, and then the grunts.

00:04:15.000 We heard the one bull that I wound up killing.

00:04:18.000 That sounded like Jurassic Park.

00:04:21.000 And it was a crazy scene.

00:04:22.000 Because Jameson and Colton and I were tucked into...

00:04:28.000 Jameson was the guy who was filming it.

00:04:29.000 Colton was the guy and me.

00:04:31.000 And we were tucked into this one small area, these trees, that was at the edge of this creek.

00:04:35.000 And we were watching these does. 0.67

00:04:38.000 And we saw three does.

00:04:39.000 So we knew.

00:04:40.000 And there's a lesson in this.

00:04:41.000 Cows?

00:04:41.000 I said does?

00:04:43.000 Yeah, cows.

00:04:43.000 Sorry.

00:04:44.000 Wrong terminology.

00:04:45.000 There's a lesson in this for regular people, for life.

00:04:49.000 And this is the lesson in life.

00:04:51.000 Because we saw these cows, and we snuck in, and we were like, wow, there's got to be a bull here.

00:04:56.000 Because there's like three cows, and we saw three more cows.

00:04:59.000 It's the time of year. 0.93

00:04:59.000 Yeah. 0.93

00:05:00.000 There's no cows unattended.

00:05:01.000 So there was 30 cows.

00:05:03.000 The cows kept filing in.

00:05:05.000 And we were like, where is this bull?

00:05:07.000 Like, where is he?

00:05:07.000 And all of a sudden, out of the creek bottom...

00:05:12.000 Steam coming out of his mouth.

00:05:14.000 How far away?

00:05:15.000 60, 70 yards, something like that, like through the trees.

00:05:18.000 And the bugling is deafening, it feels like, at that distance.

00:05:22.000 So close.

00:05:23.000 So loud.

00:05:24.000 And he was just letting everybody know.

00:05:25.000 Back the fuck up!

00:05:27.000 I'm here!

00:05:28.000 Yeah.

00:05:28.000 I mean, it's like a grand entrance.

00:05:31.000 It gives you chills, doesn't it?

00:05:32.000 Oh, it did.

00:05:33.000 But this is the lesson.

00:05:35.000 There was one cow.

00:05:36.000 He had 30 cows.

00:05:38.000 And one cow was like, I don't want to be here.

00:05:40.000 I'm tired of being number 31. There's always one.

00:05:43.000 Fuck this.

00:05:44.000 And she takes off.

00:05:45.000 And he could not just be satisfied with his 30 cows.

00:05:49.000 With 29. I think he had more than 30. It was so hard to count.

00:05:52.000 They were everywhere.

00:05:53.000 But he could not be satisfied with the cows he had left.

00:05:57.000 He's like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:05:58.000 Where you going, baby?

00:05:59.000 And he went chasing after her.

00:06:01.000 And when he went chasing after her, these other cows that were left behind started going, meh.

00:06:07.000 They make this noise like they want some dick.

00:06:10.000 And when that was happening, this other bull behind us was like, I felt that bill.

00:06:16.000 I'm the man for you girls.

00:06:18.000 Well, fuck that dude.

00:06:19.000 I'm right here.

00:06:20.000 So he starts screaming and then the other bull starts screaming.

00:06:22.000 So he decided it's too much.

00:06:24.000 And so he takes all of his cows and he moves them over the top of the hill.

00:06:28.000 And when he moved him over the top of the hill, We went after him, and when we went after him, he turned around because he thought we were that other bull.

00:06:36.000 He heard you.

00:06:37.000 He heard us walking.

00:06:38.000 Yeah.

00:06:38.000 Because they can hear, I'm sure.

00:06:40.000 Oh, yeah.

00:06:41.000 No, so he just thought it was the bull coming.

00:06:43.000 Yeah.

00:06:43.000 Heard sticks breaking and footfalls and things like that, yeah.

00:06:46.000 And that's how he got them.

00:06:47.000 Yeah.

00:06:48.000 So if he had just let that girl go, just get out of here, baby.

00:06:52.000 So what's the lesson?

00:06:53.000 The lesson is you got to let things go sometimes.

00:06:55.000 Oh, is that it?

00:06:56.000 You got 30 cows and one of them takes off.

00:06:58.000 Or you might take an arrow in the chest.

00:06:59.000 You might.

00:07:00.000 Yeah.

00:07:01.000 Let him go.

00:07:02.000 I'm going to jot that down, actually.

00:07:04.000 It's a very strong lesson.

00:07:06.000 It's a lesson for life.

00:07:07.000 Like, sometimes you can't be greedy.

00:07:08.000 He got greedy.

00:07:09.000 Yeah.

00:07:10.000 And we probably got him anyway.

00:07:11.000 But he got greedy.

00:07:13.000 It's tough.

00:07:14.000 You know, those things, they only have one thing on their mind, and that's greedy. 0.84

00:07:17.000 Yeah.

00:07:18.000 You know, so there is no 29 is good enough, you know, if we're rough numbers, but let that one go.

00:07:24.000 They're fighting for everything they got, you know, and it's, you know, we did see bulls fighting.

00:07:31.000 You know, we see the big herd bulls posturing, you know, so they're bugling, they get kind of swole up.

00:07:39.000 Sometimes if there's a subordinate bull, they'll kind of walk a little sideways to say, see how big I am?

00:07:46.000 I mean, it's all this body language that goes on with these elk, but it's what they do.

00:07:52.000 It's all they care about right now.

00:07:53.000 When we were cutting the bull open, he had cuts and holes all over his ribcage and his ass, like everywhere.

00:08:02.000 From fighting.

00:08:02.000 He had stab marks from fighting.

00:08:04.000 Yeah.

00:08:04.000 Like, you cut below the skin, you see all these, like, punctures.

00:08:07.000 Yep.

00:08:08.000 Their antlers are, I mean, and they're big, solid muscle.

00:08:13.000 Eight, 900 pound animals.

00:08:16.000 Barely any fat.

00:08:17.000 Living in the mountains, and you know how tough those mountains were to get around?

00:08:21.000 They're in there every day, sleeping on dirt.

00:08:23.000 Tough, strong, and fighting.

00:08:25.000 Yeah, they get beat up.

00:08:27.000 Yeah, I mean, what a crazy existence, too, that for one month out of the year, everything goes haywire.

00:08:32.000 Because everything goes, your friends are now your enemies.

00:08:35.000 You're ready to fight to the death with guys you were just hanging out with a couple of weeks ago.

00:08:39.000 All summer.

00:08:40.000 All summer.

00:08:41.000 Yeah, you weren't at the lake, but you were hanging out.

00:08:43.000 You weren't at the lake.

00:08:44.000 But you guys were eating grass.

00:08:46.000 Yeah.

00:08:46.000 You were just looking out for wolves.

00:08:48.000 Actually, they don't have wolves up there.

00:08:49.000 Well, they had a wolf came through real recently, right?

00:08:51.000 They have bears.

00:08:52.000 A lot of bears.

00:08:53.000 But they don't have a ton of predators, which is one reason why the elk are doing so well up there.

00:08:58.000 It was incredible.

00:08:59.000 Yeah.

00:09:00.000 I've never seen so many elk in one place.

00:09:02.000 Like, you had told me about it.

00:09:03.000 Mm-hmm.

00:09:03.000 But when you get there and you hear them all screaming...

00:09:07.000 We heard a hundred different elks screaming in this one basin.

00:09:12.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:09:13.000 I mean, it's unlike anything I've ever heard, and I've elk hunted a lot of different places, and that's the...

00:09:19.000 You know, if you, and I said, if you're an elk hunter, I said one morning, I think it was the morning that it was snowing and we were in on bulls, you know, crazy rut activity, amazing footage, cold, wet, elk hunting.

00:09:33.000 And I'd said, told Mark and the guy said, if you're an elk hunter, this is as good as it gets.

00:09:39.000 Yeah.

00:09:40.000 I mean, it's, you couldn't, it couldn't be any better.

00:09:43.000 Yeah.

00:09:43.000 No, it was the terrain was beautiful.

00:09:45.000 The weather was beautiful.

00:09:46.000 There was one time where we had snuck up to this one bull, and he was younger.

00:09:51.000 He was still a big bull, but he was...

00:09:53.000 You wanted to shoot every bull.

00:09:54.000 Yeah.

00:09:54.000 The ranch where we were at, they were really smart in how they manage the wildlife.

00:10:00.000 Yeah.

00:10:00.000 And one of the things they do is you're supposed to only kill an animal that's over eight years old.

00:10:06.000 Eight years or older.

00:10:06.000 Yeah.

00:10:07.000 So that way, they've had many, many, many years to breed.

00:10:11.000 They're really like...

00:10:12.000 They're in the later years of their life.

00:10:14.000 Like, how long does an elk live in the wild if it's lucky?

00:10:18.000 They thought that the bull I killed last year was 15. Whoa.

00:10:22.000 But that's rare.

00:10:23.000 That's crazy old.

00:10:24.000 I mean, a 10-year-old bull is old.

00:10:26.000 Yeah.

00:10:27.000 So they figured at eight, then it starts going downhill.

00:10:30.000 So it's been past its prime.

00:10:32.000 That's past its prime.

00:10:33.000 And that's past its breeding prime, so that's when you want to take it out.

00:10:37.000 Yeah, Colton said that mine was between eight and a half and nine and a half.

00:10:41.000 Like he didn't, you know, they're trying to get specific.

00:10:43.000 I guess they have to take the jaw and send it to a biologist.

00:10:47.000 Teeth wear and things like that.

00:10:48.000 Yeah, so the estimate was eight and a half to nine and a half years old.

00:10:50.000 That's an old bull.

00:10:51.000 It's an old bull.

00:10:52.000 He was a tank.

00:10:55.000 So that property, it's about a quarter million acres, 250,000 acres, and they figure there's almost 3,000 elk.

00:11:02.000 And that's actually a little bit more than optimum carrying capacity for that amount of property and that many elk.

00:11:09.000 So they'd like to get that number down a little bit and just increase the habitat and the elk herd health.

00:11:16.000 Do they ever think about capturing some of those?

00:11:18.000 I know the Rocky Mountain Elk Federation does that.

00:11:21.000 Is it, um, or Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation?

00:11:23.000 What is it?

00:11:23.000 Foundation?

00:11:24.000 Yeah.

00:11:24.000 They capture them, and then they'll release them to places like Kentucky, and they've sort of re-established, like, a real herd there now.

00:11:31.000 So, for people that don't know, at one point in time, elk were essentially all over the United States.

00:11:38.000 But then Europeans came, and then market hunting came, and of course we had rifles, and it's not we. 0.72

00:11:45.000 We didn't do it.

00:11:46.000 I wasn't there.

00:11:46.000 People that are like us did it.

00:11:49.000 I would have had a bow.

00:11:50.000 Yeah.

00:11:51.000 The market hunters essentially almost wiped out the elk.

00:11:56.000 And at the turn of the century, there were very few elk, very few deer, and then they had established some protocols and some wildlife conservation ideas in place in order to try to revive them.

00:12:07.000 They've done an amazing job since then.

00:12:10.000 Foundations like the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, what they've done is move elk into areas where they had been extirpated.

00:12:17.000 So they had been driven out of the area, essentially extinct in this one particular region.

00:12:24.000 And now they have healthy populations.

00:12:26.000 They're hunting.

00:12:26.000 I mean, they've got enough to where they can manage them.

00:12:28.000 Pennsylvania has a lot of elk now.

00:12:30.000 Big bulls there.

00:12:31.000 I've seen them on the internet.

00:12:35.000 We talk about this every time about hunters and conservation and the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, but those are the groups that have fought to protect elk and elk habitat, and that's why they're doing so well.

00:12:48.000 So I think, in fact, here's a gratuitous crotch shot.

00:12:52.000 Can you see that?

00:12:53.000 Oh, that's a Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation buckle.

00:12:57.000 Step back a little bit so people can see the glory that is your bell buckle.

00:13:01.000 That is my bell buckle.

00:13:05.000 Yeah, so they've done an amazing job.

00:13:08.000 And then obviously there's companies or other foundations that have done an amazing job for waterfowl, protecting wetlands, and then for whitetails.

00:13:18.000 I mean, there's more whitetail deer in America today than they were when Columbus came.

00:13:22.000 That's what most people hunt.

00:13:24.000 Is whitetail, too, because they're in eastern, southern U.S., you know, where elk are mostly out west, but they are, you know, moving back east again.

00:13:32.000 But, yeah, most hunters are whitetail hunters, and that animal's doing amazing.

00:13:37.000 Yeah, I mean, so amazing so that they actually have to hire people to kill them in some places where they get too close to urban environments and they have a ton of car accidents.

00:13:46.000 There's some states...

00:13:47.000 God, I wish I could...

00:13:48.000 I don't know every state in the bag limits, but I'm thinking Alabama or somewhere down in there where you can kill a deer a day.

00:13:57.000 As many as you want.

00:13:58.000 There's no predators.

00:13:59.000 There's no winter.

00:14:00.000 So these animals aren't dying on their own.

00:14:03.000 So, I mean, we just don't have unlimited habitat because humans take up space.

00:14:08.000 So down there, the bag limit is a deer a day.

00:14:10.000 Wow.

00:14:11.000 And I don't know if it's Alabama, so don't quote me on that.

00:14:14.000 But it's one of those states.

00:14:15.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:14:16.000 I think they have something like that similar in some parts of Pennsylvania and New Jersey where they're in these suburban areas.

00:14:23.000 I was watching a television show about it.

00:14:25.000 I think it was one of those reality shows where they had hired people to come in, bow hunters to hunt in suburban neighborhoods.

00:14:32.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:14:33.000 I've seen something about that, too.

00:14:34.000 Shooting off back porches.

00:14:36.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:14:37.000 I saw an episode of a hunting show the other day where T-Bone was doing that.

00:14:41.000 T-Bone Turner was shooting...

00:14:43.000 I love T-Bone.

00:14:44.000 He's a great guy.

00:14:45.000 Yeah, he's awesome.

00:14:46.000 He was shooting deer in this backyard in between an above-ground swimming pool and a swing set.

00:14:51.000 He shot a deer.

00:14:52.000 Yeah, well, if that was a swing movie...

00:14:55.000 No.

00:14:55.000 Because he's a good shot.

00:14:56.000 Yeah, I'm sure.

00:14:58.000 He'd time it.

00:14:59.000 Yeah, time it.

00:15:00.000 That'd be kind of fun.

00:15:01.000 Two million car accidents happen every year just in North America with deer.

00:15:06.000 Yeah, I'm sure.

00:15:08.000 And 150 people die every year in car accidents.

00:15:11.000 Wasn't there a guy that died in your neighborhood?

00:15:14.000 Yeah, a deer went through a windshield of a van or something like that right in Eugene there.

00:15:21.000 Didn't the car in front of it hit it and then it flew into his windshield?

00:15:26.000 I don't know.

00:15:26.000 Now I can't remember the details.

00:15:27.000 I think that's what you told me.

00:15:28.000 Yeah.

00:15:29.000 But it happens a lot.

00:15:31.000 Yeah, it does.

00:15:33.000 There's always that balance of animal numbers and habitat and where we live and making it all work.

00:15:39.000 Yeah, and that's where people get super emotional.

00:15:41.000 People get very emotional about animals, you know?

00:15:43.000 I mean, what is this?

00:15:45.000 Whoa.

00:15:46.000 Buck deer crashes through SUV windshield driver hurt.

00:15:48.000 Yeah, that's crazy.

00:15:50.000 He didn't even die.

00:15:50.000 That guy didn't die, apparently.

00:15:51.000 He just got hurt, but look at that.

00:15:53.000 It's an Escalade.

00:15:53.000 Yeah.

00:15:54.000 God.

00:15:55.000 That is crazy.

00:15:56.000 That looks like a mule deer.

00:15:57.000 It's a big, big deer.

00:15:59.000 Yeah.

00:15:59.000 Come flying through your windshield.

00:16:00.000 Yeah.

00:16:01.000 People get super emotional about this.

00:16:03.000 This is one of those subjects where whenever we're talking about hunting, like there's one way that we normally talk about it when it's just like you and I or maybe some other hunters where we talk about how great it is, how much we love it, how great the meat is.

00:16:16.000 Yeah.

00:16:17.000 And then there's a way that you talk about it in public where you have to sort of temper that knowing there's a bunch of people that are listening that That are going to get very emotional, that are maybe anti-hunters, and some of them where it gets really weird also eat meat.

00:16:32.000 Yeah, I, God, you know, I'm a sucker.

00:16:35.000 I read the comments on social media and it's like, you tell me don't read them, but I think you do too.

00:16:40.000 But anyway, and it's just some people, it's like, I saw one today and I think you mentioned that I was going to be on.

00:16:47.000 Somebody said something like, Joe, for his whatever, I can't remember, intelligent or in tune or something you are, I can't believe you hunt, you know, or can't, whatever.

00:16:58.000 It's just like, Check that dude's Instagram for a cheeseburger.

00:17:02.000 Check to see if he's got a cat that he's feeding murdered animals to.

00:17:05.000 To me, I think if you are in tune with actually how the world and nature and how we live and what we need, the more in tune you are, the more accepting you are of hunting.

00:17:17.000 Not the more you slight it, because it's how it works.

00:17:22.000 It's how we survive.

00:17:24.000 It's, you know, life eats life, and it's just like, it seems weird for people to think that, oh, I'm evolved past that, and I'm smarter, more intelligent, and you're a Neanderthal.

00:17:34.000 It's just, it's opposite, really.

00:17:36.000 Well, what they're trying to do, and I understand it, and I appreciate it, what they're trying to do is move past Yeah.

00:18:00.000 And not participate at all in any sort of slaughter of animals or any sort of cruelty.

00:18:06.000 And in theory, it's a great idea.

00:18:10.000 It's a great idea because nobody wants to be cruel.

00:18:13.000 Nobody wants to be vicious.

00:18:14.000 I don't like to be cruel.

00:18:15.000 My goal isn't to be cruel.

00:18:17.000 I don't like seeing animals suffer.

00:18:19.000 That's the worst thing in my life is to see animals suffer.

00:18:22.000 Which sounds very contradictory coming from a guy who's killed a lot of animals.

00:18:25.000 100% true.

00:18:27.000 I mean, I don't enjoy it.

00:18:28.000 And if an animal suffers, I feel bad.

00:18:31.000 Right.

00:18:31.000 But if it's a clean kill, it's...

00:18:35.000 Better than anything that animal is going to get in the wild.

00:18:38.000 In the wild, that animal is going to die either by freezing to death or being torn apart by predators because it's old.

00:18:44.000 Or it's going to get injured and it's going to get torn apart.

00:18:46.000 I found a dead bull last year that took an antler in the neck from fighting.

00:18:50.000 And who knows how long it took to bleed out.

00:18:53.000 Maybe it broke its neck.

00:18:54.000 Maybe it was paralyzed and it laid there and it took days to die.

00:18:59.000 But a hunter, and the term I like to use is being merciful.

00:19:04.000 I want to be ethical, Quick and merciful when I kill an animal because that's a hundred percent the opposite of how nature works Well, this is one thing that you have said to me in private when we've talked about it You know we were saying that what you train for and what you strive for is so that in that moment You can make the most precise shot and kill that animal as quickly and as ethically and as efficiently as possible And that that's how that's on your mind every time you release an arrow every time Yeah,

00:19:36.000 so I just think people...

00:19:38.000 I know it's hard to understand.

00:19:40.000 I get it.

00:19:41.000 If you haven't hunted and you haven't been in the mountains and you haven't seen how cruel nature can actually be, it's hard to comprehend.

00:19:49.000 Yeah, it is.

00:19:50.000 And it's also the reason why human beings are here today, the reason why we survived is because of hunting.

00:19:57.000 Does it mean that you can't be a vegetarian, you can't go vegan?

00:20:00.000 No, it doesn't.

00:20:01.000 You can do whatever you want to do.

00:20:02.000 But the reason why human beings have made it to the top of the food chain is because we consumed animals.

00:20:09.000 It's one of the primary reasons.

00:20:11.000 That biologists believe that our brains evolved past that of lower primates, is that we figured out fire, we figured out how to cook meat, and the nutrients from that cooking meat along with the complex problem-solving issues that come up in hunting are one of the reasons why we evolved.

00:20:28.000 Because to be smarter and more clever than these animals that are faster than you, smell better than you, hear better than you, see better than you, stronger than you, They have more endurance in you.

00:20:37.000 These elk run up that mountain like it's a joke.

00:20:40.000 I was huffing and puffing.

00:20:42.000 I mean, I've been running a lot since we did that Keep Hammering 5K last year, and I realized what a pussy I am.

00:20:50.000 And then, you know, times that we've hunted together, too, I've just been really out of breath.

00:20:54.000 And even though I work out doing other things, I realize, like, You have to run hills.

00:20:58.000 There's no way around it.

00:20:59.000 So it helped me a lot.

00:21:00.000 That was very nice to see.

00:21:02.000 It was very nice to see a big difference in my endurance now where I can keep up.

00:21:07.000 Whereas before it was like a huge struggle because every day we were doing 10-12 miles.

00:21:12.000 But these elk go up there like nothing.

00:21:14.000 Like it's nothing.

00:21:16.000 So for a human at one point in our evolutionary past to figure out how to beat these things at their own game, trick them and get meat from them and survive and then develop strategies for that and then teach other people in their community these strategies and this evolved and this This is the reason why you and I are talking today on microphones that are powered by electricity,

00:21:38.000 that in this room, that shelter in this city, this complex series of buildings that we've built a lot to protect us from the environment and from other animals.

00:21:48.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:21:49.000 It's been, I mean, quite a journey.

00:21:51.000 And the part of that, so, yeah, we have evolved.

00:21:54.000 Yes, we've got better.

00:21:55.000 And we are, that's why we're different than an elk and other animals.

00:22:00.000 And we take advantage of that superiority.

00:22:03.000 We use it to kill them, to eat them, to hold the meat home.

00:22:09.000 For me, if it was about the killing, just killing, I wouldn't bow hunt.

00:22:14.000 Bow hunting is very hard.

00:22:16.000 I would rifle hunt.

00:22:18.000 If I just wanted to go out there and kill something, that's usually the most efficient way to get a kill.

00:22:23.000 Maybe ten times easier.

00:22:25.000 I don't know.

00:22:26.000 But with a bow, I just know how difficult it is.

00:22:28.000 And, you know, you talked about the improvements you've made.

00:22:31.000 You've been bow hunting now for four years.

00:22:32.000 And I do want to touch on, it's been awesome to see The dedication you have to the craft of bow hunting.

00:22:42.000 It is not easy.

00:22:44.000 I mean, I know people who don't hunt see it and say, oh, you just enjoy killing animals out there.

00:22:49.000 I just said, if I just want to kill, I'd use a gun.

00:22:52.000 It is about the challenge and about the experience.

00:22:55.000 And it's not easy.

00:22:57.000 And the improvements you've made in four years, and it's basically through obsession.

00:23:01.000 I mean, to be great at anything, you need to be slightly obsessed.

00:23:04.000 And you have been.

00:23:07.000 That learning curve for hunting is so steep.

00:23:10.000 It's like sometimes people, you know, because of how we've talked and, you know, the stories we've shared on social media, it looks intriguing.

00:23:18.000 It looks, I don't know.

00:23:21.000 I mean, it's just, it's powerful.

00:23:22.000 So people, they want a piece of that.

00:23:24.000 They want to know what that feels like to be ingrained in that world.

00:23:28.000 And, you know, we get messages, hey, I want to get started in bow hunting.

00:23:31.000 And part of me is going, oh my I want you to, but it's a long journey.

00:23:37.000 It is hard.

00:23:37.000 Yeah, it's almost too much.

00:23:39.000 It's not too much because I don't want to discourage anybody, but God, it's tough.

00:23:44.000 Well, just to get good enough.

00:23:45.000 Listen, I've been doing this for almost 30 years now.

00:23:48.000 1989, I killed my first bull elk as a spike bull.

00:23:52.000 And so since 1989, so this is 29 years of bow hunting, and I go into this season Just like I go into every season and I wonder, is this going to be the season where I have no success?

00:24:04.000 Because it could happen.

00:24:05.000 It's that hard.

00:24:07.000 Because I've killed before and had success for all these years, it doesn't mean anything right now.

00:24:12.000 It doesn't mean anything to an animal that I was pursuing in Utah, a big bull.

00:24:17.000 That big bull could care less about, oh, he's had a lot of success over the years.

00:24:22.000 It means nothing.

00:24:24.000 So I always wonder, is this going to be the year where I can't get it done?

00:24:27.000 And it completely changes your relationship to your food because all your meat that you're getting in your house is coming from your success bow hunting.

00:24:35.000 So when you are entering into a season and you're wondering whether or not you're going to get success, you're literally worrying whether or not you're going to be able to provide for your family the way you have been And it's not like we're starving.

00:24:48.000 Right.

00:24:49.000 But it's like this is the way you've chosen to acquire meat, though, in this ethical, humane, wild way.

00:24:54.000 When my family goes to the freezer and opens it, there's always elk meat in there.

00:25:00.000 Always.

00:25:01.000 That's what I do.

00:25:02.000 I make sure my family has meat to eat.

00:25:05.000 So when they go to the freezer and open it and there's no elk meat, That's not good.

00:25:10.000 I mean, yeah, we're not going to starve, but that's what we're used to.

00:25:14.000 I've provided like that.

00:25:16.000 My family, friends and family have called, hey, you got any elk meat you could spare?

00:25:21.000 Got any hamburger?

00:25:22.000 You know, whatever.

00:25:23.000 Always.

00:25:24.000 Yeah.

00:25:24.000 Oh yeah, I'd love to.

00:25:25.000 That's what I love to do.

00:25:27.000 So I don't want to face a prospect of not having that.

00:25:31.000 Right.

00:25:32.000 Yeah, I give away a lot of it.

00:25:33.000 I'm constantly giving it to Brian Cowan.

00:25:35.000 Yeah?

00:25:36.000 Brian needs to get back on the horse.

00:25:37.000 He hasn't had any success hunting in a couple of years, so he mooches off me.

00:25:42.000 Did he?

00:25:42.000 He's killed then.

00:25:43.000 Yeah, he's got a few deer.

00:25:44.000 Oh, okay.

00:25:45.000 Yeah.

00:25:45.000 All right.

00:25:46.000 He's never shot a bow before, but he's rifle hunted.

00:25:49.000 I figured that's why he was so ripped, is from all that...

00:25:55.000 Lean protein.

00:25:56.000 Because he is a beautiful man.

00:25:58.000 He's beautiful.

00:25:59.000 Yeah, he wants to get into bow hunting, but it's another one of those things.

00:26:02.000 You say you do, but do you really?

00:26:05.000 Because if you do, it's going to take a lot of your time.

00:26:08.000 You've got to get all in.

00:26:09.000 All in.

00:26:09.000 You can't go halfway.

00:26:11.000 No.

00:26:11.000 And there's the other thing that...

00:26:14.000 People love to say, you know, that meat is terrible for you and you're going to get cancer and heart attacks and diabetes.

00:26:19.000 People keep repeating that.

00:26:21.000 Stop saying it because it's not true.

00:26:23.000 You're wrong.

00:26:24.000 I know you like to say that because it sounds good and it sounds like a really good argument for people that eat meat.

00:26:31.000 It's absolutely untrue.

00:26:32.000 And if you go back and look at the real studies, The only thing that they've shown is there's a connection between cancer and processed food.

00:26:40.000 There is a connection between preservatives, nitrites, and a lot of the things that we use to make processed meat.

00:26:47.000 So if you're talking about things like hot dogs and processed meats and, you know, kind of like beef sticks that you might get at the gas station, yeah.

00:26:56.000 Eat enough of those and your body's going to revolt.

00:26:59.000 It's not good for you.

00:27:00.000 But wild game meat is some of the most nutritious and healthy things that you can put in your body.

00:27:07.000 And that's just a fact.

00:27:08.000 And so people that keep putting these comments on Cam Haynes' Instagram page and occasionally on mine and all these different...

00:27:15.000 They always want to say this.

00:27:16.000 Cam, you're going to get cancer.

00:27:18.000 Good luck with your heart attack.

00:27:19.000 It's not true.

00:27:20.000 And every study that has shown that it is true is bullshit.

00:27:24.000 They've all been debunked by actual science.

00:27:26.000 If you look at the real people that are putting together these documentaries that show that meat causes diabetes, they are fools.

00:27:33.000 And it's not true.

00:27:34.000 It's been widely debunked.

00:27:36.000 What they are is proselytizing vegans.

00:27:38.000 They're vegans who want everyone to become vegan, so they're distorting truth in making documentaries that have no basis in actual reality and science.

00:27:47.000 And if you just Google, like, what was the most recent one those guys did?

00:27:53.000 What the health?

00:27:53.000 Yeah, what the health.

00:27:54.000 Google what the health debunked.

00:27:56.000 And there's a ton of scientists that have no stake in the game.

00:28:00.000 They're not like from the meat industry.

00:28:02.000 They're just people that have seen the doctors have reviewed it.

00:28:07.000 There's people that have seen the actual facts and seen this documentary and go, this is nonsense.

00:28:12.000 And so people regurgitate that stuff all the time.

00:28:15.000 Yeah.

00:28:15.000 I just want to tell people, like, just do some research.

00:28:19.000 Read some of the actual studies.

00:28:20.000 Here's what's bad for you.

00:28:22.000 A sedentary lifestyle.

00:28:24.000 A sedentary lifestyle is terrible for you.

00:28:25.000 Sitting in your office chair, sitting in your cubicle, eating too much, bad for you.

00:28:30.000 High carbohydrate diets, bad for you.

00:28:32.000 Getting too fat, bad for you.

00:28:33.000 Drinking a lot of alcohol, bad for you.

00:28:35.000 Drinking sugary sodas, bad for you.

00:28:37.000 All those things are way worse for you than an elk steak.

00:28:40.000 Way worse.

00:28:41.000 So if you're eating any of those things or doing any of those things and you say, good luck with your heart attack, Fuck off, because you don't know what you're talking about.

00:28:49.000 Yeah, it's true.

00:28:52.000 Since we're talking about that, one thing that I think we have to be careful on is slamming, I guess, the beef industry.

00:29:04.000 Because we're not trying to do that.

00:29:06.000 People always say, there's cattle ranchers out there that work hard, that do it right.

00:29:11.000 And there is factory farming, which people, I feel like almost...

00:29:16.000 I've been guilty of it, maybe, throwing around factory farming, almost like a vegan will throw around, good luck with that heart attack.

00:29:22.000 And there's a lot of ranches that do it right, that have the cattle out there free-ranging, and the only time that they're in a small enclosure is when they are killed.

00:29:32.000 Brought to slaughter.

00:29:33.000 Yeah, brought to slaughter.

00:29:34.000 So, I mean, I buy steaks still occasionally from my buddy at E3. There's plenty of places that have, I don't know, if you're going to look at...

00:29:46.000 Ethical beef production.

00:29:47.000 There's a lot of places that do it.

00:29:49.000 I agree and the same thing can be said with chicken and same thing you'd say with Poultry with turkey.

00:29:55.000 There's a lot of free-range and there's more of an emphasis I think that's one of the reasons why people become more and more interested in hunting today.

00:30:02.000 They're more in tune.

00:30:03.000 Yeah Well, but people are more concerned with the ethics behind how their food is raised.

00:30:10.000 You know, there's a lot of farm-to-table restaurants that are opening up, which are really amazing.

00:30:14.000 You can go, and you can, you know, and there's a place near me, and you get these eggs, and they're dark yolks, like a dark orange yolk at this restaurant, and they have, like, grass-fed beef that tastes healthy.

00:30:26.000 It tastes really good.

00:30:27.000 Yeah.

00:30:28.000 And that's the stuff we're supposed to be eating.

00:30:30.000 We've gotten into this crazy situation as human beings where we're getting food that is in a lot of ways tasteless because it's been engineered to last forever on a shelf.

00:30:43.000 We've gotten this meat that's gotten super fat because they're pumping them up with antibiotics and feeding them grain until they, you know, just become these fat unhealthy things that are in no way resemble a wild creature.

00:30:56.000 Well, we had a steak last night at the airport.

00:30:59.000 Yeah.

00:31:01.000 Taste-wise, I could barely taste it.

00:31:04.000 Yeah, there was not much to it.

00:31:06.000 Yeah.

00:31:06.000 But I think that was also probably the way it was cooked.

00:31:08.000 But what was really weird is the difference in the connection with that, right?

00:31:12.000 Like when you sit down and you cook an elk steak...

00:31:16.000 You remember where you were when you shot that.

00:31:20.000 You remember how hard it was to get to that elk.

00:31:23.000 You remember the stalk.

00:31:24.000 You remember maybe several blown stalks where the wind shifted on you and the elk spooked and took off and how difficult it is and the intense success.

00:31:34.000 And that's another thing that people don't like, the idea of the happiness that comes with success when you kill something.

00:31:41.000 It's hard to understand, I think.

00:31:42.000 Yeah.

00:31:44.000 I mean, it's an achievement.

00:31:46.000 And it's not like, oh, we murdered something, so we're celebrating.

00:31:49.000 But it's so hard.

00:31:51.000 We talked about the difficulty.

00:31:54.000 You achieve something of...

00:31:57.000 Great difficulty, when that animal's dead, and then you're skinning it, you're cutting the meat off.

00:32:03.000 I mean, you know, I took out the tenderloins of the bull I killed, you know, and smelled it, made sure the meat, always just making sure, because that is the fruit of the labor right there, is that meat.

00:32:16.000 So, you're holding a big slab of steak.

00:32:22.000 And like you said, you remember everything, but mostly what I'm thinking of there is how clean it is, how pure it is, does it smell good, smells perfect, and that's just kind of the process.

00:32:31.000 It goes in the meat bag, it goes on my back, it comes off the mountain, it goes in the cooler, it goes to the processor, it gets cut and frozen and wrapped, and then I cook it.

00:32:42.000 That's a lot of steps.

00:32:45.000 We go to the airport, we say, yeah, can I get the sirloin?

00:32:50.000 That's it.

00:32:51.000 That's it.

00:32:52.000 And that's how most people do it.

00:32:53.000 And that's a weird place that we've gotten into as human beings.

00:32:57.000 And then hunters are judged negatively for having just that whole emotional thing and all the meaning and the feeling and the connection to it.

00:33:07.000 And we're judged negatively for that.

00:33:09.000 But the person who sits down and says, I'll take the sirloin.

00:33:12.000 That's good.

00:33:13.000 Wow.

00:33:13.000 Good to go.

00:33:14.000 It's like it should be opposite.

00:33:15.000 It should.

00:33:16.000 But you know what it is, too?

00:33:17.000 It's like the building is faceless, right?

00:33:20.000 OK, the restaurant is faceless.

00:33:22.000 The supermarket is faceless.

00:33:23.000 You have no idea who did the actual killing of the cow.

00:33:28.000 When you go to the woods, and you come out with an elk steak, and you kill it, and you're wearing a Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation belt buckle, and you're Cam Haines, like, people can look to you.

00:33:39.000 Well, there, I found one.

00:33:40.000 Right there.

00:33:41.000 Like, you are the connection to death.

00:33:43.000 You're the connection to death.

00:33:45.000 Meanwhile...

00:33:45.000 If someone was outside protesting you, like they found out we're doing this podcast, and you're like, you son of a bitch, we're the ones who put out the petition, we want to get you banned from Under Armour, you're a terrible person, you're a trophy hunter, you're out there killing animals.

00:33:58.000 All around them is dead animals.

00:34:00.000 Every gas station is filled with beef sticks, every restaurant is filled with dead animals.

00:34:05.000 Every supermarket is filled with dead animals.

00:34:07.000 In this area where we're at, there are a hundred places that you can walk to inside of three minutes that have dead animals in them.

00:34:15.000 Yeah, but they'd be protesting here.

00:34:17.000 They'd be protesting here.

00:34:18.000 You, because you're a face.

00:34:19.000 And meanwhile, that's what's so back-ass words about it.

00:34:23.000 It's because we're doing it the right way.

00:34:25.000 You're doing...

00:34:26.000 I'm not saying you have to do it that way.

00:34:27.000 But if you wanted to have the most...

00:34:29.000 This is a weird word.

00:34:31.000 Spiritual connection to your food.

00:34:33.000 Mm-hmm.

00:34:34.000 There's nothing else I've ever experienced that's even remotely close.

00:34:40.000 Right.

00:34:41.000 Yeah.

00:34:42.000 And there's...

00:34:44.000 I guess to some people, some people are getting it.

00:34:46.000 You know, there's some people that would protest out here.

00:34:49.000 It wouldn't matter what justification you had.

00:34:51.000 They were never going to see it.

00:34:53.000 And that's fine because we're all different.

00:34:55.000 You know, we all have different passions.

00:34:57.000 So that group of people, whatever.

00:34:59.000 But there's a people in the middle that we have, they have heard and they have thought about it and they have You know realize that does make it actually makes sense and those are the people that Want to know what it'd be like to be a provider for themselves to go to go into the mountains and and to come Loaded loaded out with you know a pack full of meat and so those are the people I guess we're talking to we're never gonna get the extreme people No,

00:35:25.000 I mean and that's always going to be the case with all arguments There's always going to be radical people on all sides, you know, and I think Our job as human beings, communicating to other human beings, is to try to relay our own experiences as clear and as honest as possible.

00:35:43.000 And that's why I always try to look at it from the other point of view.

00:35:46.000 I always try to look at it from people that I think are good people that become vegans because they're good people, because they want to have no cruelty.

00:35:55.000 And I think they just have...

00:35:57.000 A perspective that I don't share.

00:35:59.000 And that perspective is I've actually been involved.

00:36:04.000 I've gone through the ritual of the hunting.

00:36:08.000 I've gone through the trials and tribulations of hiking many, many miles and trying to find these things and trying to figure out the wind.

00:36:16.000 And it hasn't all been success.

00:36:18.000 No, it's a lot of failure.

00:36:19.000 It's a lot of failure.

00:36:20.000 It's more success lately than ever, but that's just because I've worked harder than ever.

00:36:24.000 More and more dedication, more time, being obsessed, more time, practicing.

00:36:29.000 I practice every day.

00:36:30.000 I'm shooting every day.

00:36:32.000 People see the success.

00:36:35.000 They see the pictures.

00:36:36.000 If it's somebody they want to hate, it's me they hate.

00:36:39.000 I'm sitting there with a dead elk.

00:36:41.000 But hunting is such a roller coaster.

00:36:44.000 It's like everything is magnified.

00:36:45.000 The success is magnified because it's so hard.

00:36:47.000 The failure is magnified because it hurts so bad because you've worked so hard.

00:36:52.000 I mean...

00:36:53.000 I just it took me I started like I said in 1989 it took me to 1996 to kill my first six point bull elk in the wilderness and it would have been we wouldn't even have looked at it on this last time it would have been like ah there's a little bull I mean but when I when I got that six point bull elk I felt so proud I'd finally achieved I mean that's that's the bull on this buckle right here is a six point and I thought I finally did it But in between

00:37:23.000 there had been so many disappointments and devastations and in the wilderness.

00:37:29.000 I remember one time I'd been in there by myself.

00:37:33.000 I think like day eight.

00:37:35.000 I was in this dry creek bed and here comes these cows come across.

00:37:39.000 Here comes this big bull.

00:37:41.000 I don't know how big he was.

00:37:42.000 He's pretty big for their 320, 330, which is a scoring number.

00:37:47.000 Which is calculating the length of all the points of the antlers.

00:37:52.000 Right.

00:37:52.000 So it would have been still slightly smaller than the bulls we just killed.

00:37:57.000 And he came across there, and I'm on my knees, and I shoot.

00:38:02.000 And I hit...

00:38:03.000 If you hit them in the shoulder back then, the bows weren't as efficient as they are now.

00:38:10.000 But if you hit them in the shoulder blade, it went in about...

00:38:14.000 I would say an inch, inch and a half.

00:38:17.000 Arrow hit his shoulder blade, stopped, and basically fell out.

00:38:20.000 And he went running off.

00:38:22.000 And I went up and picked up my arrow.

00:38:24.000 And there's blood just on the broadhead.

00:38:26.000 And to them, you know, something like that is, they might have a sore shoulder for a little while.

00:38:31.000 They take antlers and the guts and neck and all the time.

00:38:34.000 They heal up.

00:38:35.000 They're amazing.

00:38:37.000 So that was nothing, essentially nothing more than a flesh wound, but I remember sitting there looking at my arrow, looking at the little bit of blood on my broadhead, and, I mean, eyes welling up with tears, because Eight days just there but working all year towards that moment and having that opportunity at 43 yards and Being inches off because inches further to the right back would have been double long dead bull biggest bull ever all the hard work paid off to being devastated so

00:39:08.000 people see the success Some 20 years later or whatever it's been they don't To feel as disappointed as I was.

00:39:18.000 To wonder if all the work was worth it.

00:39:21.000 To hurt that bad.

00:39:23.000 They don't see that.

00:39:24.000 But that's why hunting is so powerful.

00:39:27.000 That's why hunting has changed my life.

00:39:30.000 Because it's so difficult.

00:39:32.000 And because there's those ups and downs.

00:39:36.000 We do a better job of sharing the complete journey now than...

00:39:40.000 Back in the day, you'd just be like, hey, I killed this bull.

00:39:43.000 That's it.

00:39:43.000 You'd go to the archery pro shop.

00:39:45.000 You'd put your picture up of the bull that you killed, and that was it.

00:39:49.000 Now, we're a little more in tune.

00:39:51.000 I see all sorts of people on social media now, and they show their picture of their bull, and they get down.

00:39:56.000 You read the caption.

00:39:57.000 It's about providing for their family and pure protein in their freezer.

00:40:02.000 So...

00:40:03.000 We're doing a better job of explaining it, but still, until you've been there, it's really hard to grasp what it all means.

00:40:10.000 No, I don't think anybody's going to.

00:40:12.000 I don't think it's possible.

00:40:14.000 It's something more.

00:40:17.000 It's a discipline, but it's something more.

00:40:21.000 Sometimes people call bowhunting a sport, and I always kind of cringe.

00:40:24.000 Yeah, I don't like that either.

00:40:25.000 Because I think there's not a word for it.

00:40:27.000 No, it's not a sport.

00:40:28.000 I don't think there's a comparative word.

00:40:30.000 I think it's bowhunting.

00:40:34.000 It's a lifestyle is what I say.

00:40:36.000 You have to be immersed in a lifestyle to really understand it.

00:40:40.000 A sport makes it seem like, you know, keeping score.

00:40:44.000 Well, to me, it's a lot like jujitsu in that way, too, where if you talk to people who train in jujitsu a lot, they understand how difficult it is and they understand the struggle and they understand that in that struggle, like all struggles, I think people need struggle.

00:41:00.000 I think it's very important.

00:41:01.000 You get better not just at the jiu-jitsu or not just at the bow hunting.

00:41:08.000 You get better at being a person.

00:41:10.000 And I feel better today.

00:41:13.000 After this trip in Utah than I felt before I left.

00:41:16.000 Not that I felt bad before I left.

00:41:17.000 I felt great, but I feel energized.

00:41:19.000 Why?

00:41:20.000 I feel energized because of the experience.

00:41:23.000 I feel energized because of the struggle.

00:41:25.000 I feel energized because of how difficult it was to hike those mountains up and down and chasing those elk around and having things blow out and getting back to the lodge and being so tired that you could just barely eat your food and then I'm passing out almost like as I'm done eating.

00:41:41.000 And then I crash and the alarm goes off at 5 o'clock in the morning and then you're out there in the dark doing it again.

00:41:46.000 And then to have success.

00:41:48.000 So to understand that you can push through things and you can get better.

00:41:54.000 And you can practice things and you can get better.

00:41:57.000 And that applies to everything in life.

00:41:58.000 It does.

00:41:59.000 It's a discipline, but It's discipline like almost no other because it's not just a discipline It's a discipline that also sustains you and your family and it's a discipline that involves like real critical moments of life and death Like when I was drawing back on that bull and I'm looking at this bull through a very small window where I could shoot Between these two trees,

00:42:23.000 32 yards away, and Colton, who was the guide, paused this bull.

00:42:27.000 He made a cow sound.

00:42:28.000 Like, meow!

00:42:28.000 Like, right where that bull needed to stop.

00:42:31.000 Like, the bull walked in.

00:42:33.000 He cow called it.

00:42:34.000 It stopped.

00:42:35.000 And that critical moment where you have to make a perfect shot in a split second.

00:42:39.000 And intensity.

00:42:40.000 The intensity is insane.

00:42:42.000 It's like nothing else.

00:42:43.000 Yeah.

00:42:44.000 It's...

00:42:45.000 And to do it, and to do it successfully, and to have that elk die in seconds, and have that elk wander off 20 yards, like seeing it bleed out of both sides, knowing this is it.

00:42:54.000 And this is probably, no, not probably, definitely.

00:42:58.000 Unless he falls off a cliff, this is the cleanest, fastest death this thing is ever going to have.

00:43:04.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:43:05.000 And I'm going to eat it tonight.

00:43:10.000 Yeah, it's...

00:43:11.000 I don't know.

00:43:12.000 There's so much reverence in the moment.

00:43:13.000 What I like, and we talked about this film and capturing it, and hopefully what the message we can convey with the film.

00:43:21.000 But you did a great job after that shot of...

00:43:25.000 Really just, I guess, verbalizing how you felt then and kind of everything you just said, but more authentic because you were there.

00:43:37.000 Right there.

00:43:37.000 There's not a recreation.

00:43:38.000 It was real and the bull was laying there dead.

00:43:42.000 And it's, I don't know.

00:43:45.000 It's intense.

00:43:46.000 I wish there was a way people could get it.

00:43:49.000 I think these kind of conversations help a little bit.

00:43:52.000 And I know for people listening, there's some people that go, oh, you guys are redundant.

00:43:55.000 You're just defending hunting again.

00:43:57.000 So boring.

00:43:58.000 Next.

00:43:59.000 Boring.

00:43:59.000 Anytime I see a guy with a baseball hat on.

00:44:02.000 So I almost didn't wear a hat today.

00:44:04.000 Why?

00:44:05.000 Baseball hats?

00:44:05.000 They don't like baseball hats?

00:44:07.000 Excuse me.

00:44:08.000 I've been coughing forever.

00:44:10.000 What about baseball hats?

00:44:13.000 They don't like baseball hats.

00:44:14.000 Where's this coming from?

00:44:15.000 I saw it on your comments.

00:44:16.000 You've got to stop reading those!

00:44:20.000 I think mostly.

00:44:21.000 What kind of hats they like?

00:44:23.000 Berets? 1.00

00:44:23.000 I'm a painter. 1.00

00:44:25.000 I love the arts.

00:44:26.000 A t-shirt I wanted to make up.

00:44:28.000 No, I'm not gonna say it.

00:44:30.000 I'm not gonna say it.

00:44:32.000 My t-shirt ideas sometimes aren't the greatest.

00:44:35.000 Or most positive.

00:44:36.000 They're hilarious when no one's around.

00:44:39.000 They can be funny.

00:44:40.000 The one about rain gear is awesome.

00:44:41.000 Oh my god.

00:44:43.000 So I try to be positive.

00:44:45.000 I mean...

00:44:47.000 Yeah, anyway.

00:44:48.000 Well, positive, except when you're just being funny.

00:44:51.000 See, that's like, that's what I do for a living.

00:44:54.000 Yeah.

00:44:54.000 Like when people say, well, that's pretty negative.

00:44:56.000 Well, it's not really, because I don't mean it.

00:44:58.000 Yeah.

00:44:58.000 You know, like my friends will say some of the rudest shit about me, and I'll laugh my ass off.

00:45:02.000 Yeah.

00:45:03.000 Because I know they're just being funny.

00:45:04.000 I mean it a little bit.

00:45:05.000 You mean it a little bit, but that's what makes it funny.

00:45:07.000 Yeah.

00:45:07.000 If you didn't mean it at all, if there was no truth to it at all, there'd be no humor to it at all.

00:45:12.000 I wanted to touch on this.

00:45:16.000 You know, we talk about the struggle and the hardship.

00:45:20.000 Adam Greentree, our friend, you know, he had a lot of people here followed along on his journey.

00:45:28.000 Tell everybody what happened.

00:45:30.000 Yeah, and his journey will be...

00:45:32.000 So, he hunted three different states over the course of about three weeks.

00:45:38.000 By himself.

00:45:39.000 By himself, solo, in the backcountry.

00:45:42.000 With a tiny little tent.

00:45:43.000 Yeah, he hunted Colorado, then he went to Montana, then he ended up killing a bull in Idaho.

00:45:49.000 If you look on the surface of it, if you didn't understand, you'd think, oh, he hunted three states and he killed a five-point bull.

00:45:56.000 Wow, that's a lot of effort for that.

00:46:00.000 But to him and to people who embrace struggle, it's not just a five-point bull died.

00:46:07.000 That was a journey, and that was the end of the journey, and there was success, and there was tons of failure along the way.

00:46:16.000 Well, the best part about it was that he documented the entire thing on Instagram.

00:46:19.000 Yeah, he did.

00:46:19.000 He did it on his Instagram story.

00:46:20.000 And I let people know.

00:46:21.000 I put up a bunch of posts about it.

00:46:23.000 And one of the posts that sent his followers skyrocketing was him holding a pistol and then in the distance.

00:46:30.000 He took a photo of this crazy bastard in the moment.

00:46:33.000 There's a fucking giant grizzly standing on its hind legs, looking at him from, it looked like no more than 50, 60 yards away.

00:46:40.000 Yeah.

00:46:40.000 And he's holding up a pistol, and I said that it's one of the most, like, you can see it there.

00:46:45.000 Yeah.

00:46:45.000 That looks like it may be, at the most, probably a hundred...

00:46:48.000 Oh, that's the video.

00:46:48.000 So it'll, I think it stands up here.

00:46:49.000 Oh, is this his video?

00:46:50.000 Yeah.

00:46:54.000 That look, that gun looks like it's 200 years old.

00:47:00.000 Yeah.

00:47:01.000 I don't think it is.

00:47:02.000 I think it's just out of focus.

00:47:03.000 Oh.

00:47:05.000 But yeah, I mean...

00:47:06.000 That, you know, that's a phone video.

00:47:09.000 So, I mean, it's way closer than it looks.

00:47:12.000 Yeah, he keeps standing up to try to figure out where he is.

00:47:15.000 Yeah.

00:47:15.000 And what he's doing.

00:47:19.000 And in a moment like that...

00:47:22.000 He just keeps standing up.

00:47:25.000 I don't want to shoot up.

00:47:27.000 I don't mind my life either, so...

00:47:31.000 Fucking open that bitch's head up if she comes for me. 1.00

00:47:35.000 One more time.

00:47:44.000 I just can't imagine what it would be like there, being out there for 20 plus days by yourself.

00:47:49.000 A moment like that is, you know, we're pretty used to being around people.

00:47:54.000 I mean, if something happened here, I know you'd do whatever you could.

00:47:58.000 Jamie would do whatever he could to help, you know, if we needed help.

00:48:01.000 In that, nobody's coming.

00:48:05.000 You're by 100%.

00:48:06.000 He's by himself.

00:48:08.000 And those type of experiences, where else are you going to get that?

00:48:12.000 So he's in the mounds.

00:48:14.000 There's a bear that...

00:48:17.000 The bear is just doing what bears do, right?

00:48:19.000 And he's immersed himself into that world.

00:48:23.000 And that's all part of this whole process and whole journey.

00:48:26.000 But that's what intrigued everybody that was following along is because that's as real as it gets, you know?

00:48:32.000 And he's surviving.

00:48:33.000 And we talked about...

00:48:35.000 You know, on our hunt, we got back tired.

00:48:37.000 We were able to go to be dry and everything else.

00:48:40.000 And that intent, you're getting in a tent.

00:48:43.000 If you were wet when you got in the tent, you're going to be wet in the morning.

00:48:46.000 You know what I mean?

00:48:47.000 Yeah.

00:48:47.000 I mean, it's...

00:48:50.000 It's uncomfortable.

00:48:51.000 It's uncomfortable.

00:48:52.000 And, you know, that's what I grew up doing because I had no other option.

00:48:56.000 I mean, I could hunt Oregon for $25 on an elk tag and hunt public land, and that's all I did for decades because that was the only option I have.

00:49:06.000 And that is...

00:49:09.000 That is difficult.

00:49:11.000 And like I said, you question why you're doing it.

00:49:13.000 And people would say, you know, I'd kill like a... 0.98

00:49:16.000 If I saw a five-point bull, like what Adam killed, I would kill it and be happy.

00:49:20.000 And people say, you don't need to work that hard to kill an elk.

00:49:23.000 You know, you could kill that bull off a gravel road and, you know, a truck camp.

00:49:28.000 But to me...

00:49:30.000 That's not what it was about.

00:49:31.000 It was about the whole journey in the wilderness and surviving and navigating and problem solving.

00:49:39.000 And yeah, maybe it wasn't the biggest bull in the world, but that's just one piece of the puzzle.

00:49:45.000 Yeah, there is a difference between, and I have done this a few times, between camping and staying in a lodge.

00:49:51.000 Staying in a lodge is way nicer.

00:49:54.000 Oh, yeah.

00:49:55.000 You know, we were in Utah.

00:49:56.000 We would go back to the lodge, and it was, you know, you and me and our buddy Ben O'Brien was there and was lots of laughs, and we were having a good time.

00:50:08.000 We'd all eat dinner together and just shoot the shit.

00:50:12.000 When you're in the woods and you're camping, you're still in the woods.

00:50:16.000 There's no...

00:50:17.000 The lodge is civilization.

00:50:19.000 There's electricity.

00:50:20.000 There's hot water.

00:50:21.000 You can take a shower.

00:50:22.000 When you're in the woods, you stay in the woods.

00:50:24.000 When you camp, you wake up, you're in the woods.

00:50:27.000 It's a more immersive experience.

00:50:29.000 And then there's the next level, which is what Adam did.

00:50:32.000 In the woods by himself for many, many, many, many days before he had success.

00:50:38.000 And then there's...

00:50:39.000 Video of him after he shot that elk 20-whatever days in when, you know, he's like, it's finally over.

00:50:49.000 It's finally over.

00:50:51.000 It's like, that guy just went on a vision quest, you know?

00:50:54.000 So much respect for that, you know?

00:50:56.000 I mean, he is so tough, and he's...

00:51:02.000 Bowhunting means, I don't know, if you tried to explain, what does bowhunting mean to you?

00:51:08.000 You couldn't do it with words for somebody like him, you know?

00:51:11.000 And I would lump myself in there.

00:51:13.000 It's like bowhunting defines who I am, who he is. 0.62

00:51:17.000 But, you know, I know I've done seminars before and I've asked people, okay, if there's 100 or 200 people there, how many people have stayed out in the woods, in the mountains by themselves for one night?

00:51:33.000 Never.

00:51:33.000 Hardly anybody.

00:51:35.000 I mean, how many people do you know that have stayed out in the woods by themselves for a night?

00:51:39.000 I just know a few because I know hunters like Remy and you and Green Tree and a few other folks.

00:51:44.000 Right.

00:51:45.000 So most people, they don't like to be by themselves.

00:51:48.000 No, not in the woods.

00:51:49.000 And they want to feel safe.

00:51:50.000 Yeah.

00:51:51.000 So for Adam to do that for three weeks, that says something because hardly anybody ever does it.

00:51:56.000 Right.

00:51:57.000 You know, and so he did that.

00:52:00.000 Loved it.

00:52:00.000 I think he loved it.

00:52:02.000 His video said he loved it.

00:52:04.000 Sorry to speak for him.

00:52:05.000 Maybe he didn't always love it.

00:52:07.000 But no, I can't speak for him, but I can speak for myself and know that you don't always love it.

00:52:14.000 There's times where I would question, like I said, what am I doing?

00:52:19.000 Is this worth it?

00:52:21.000 But you'd fight through that.

00:52:22.000 And then you'd come out stronger and be ready for the next challenge and Hopefully it paid off.

00:52:31.000 I think any experience in nature is good for people.

00:52:33.000 I think we spend entirely too much time in cities, entirely too much time indoors in buildings and artificial lighting and all that stuff.

00:52:41.000 I think any experience in nature at all is good for you.

00:52:45.000 It's just good to be grounded, literally grounded, like to feel the ground and to understand that this is the wild world.

00:52:52.000 This is the real world.

00:52:53.000 This other thing is this Nerfed out thing that we've sort of concocted as human beings.

00:52:59.000 But the more time you spend in there, the more it reveals itself to you.

00:53:02.000 And there's a weird, empty loneliness to true wilderness.

00:53:06.000 Like when you're at the top of a mountain, and you don't have any cell signal, and you don't see a building anywhere as far as the eye can see.

00:53:14.000 We're nowhere near city when we're out there.

00:53:17.000 When you sit up there, and you look out, and you hear a coyote howl, and you see an eagle fly overhead, and you hear an elk bugle, there's nothing like it.

00:53:28.000 It's the real wild.

00:53:30.000 These things, they don't know you're a real thing.

00:53:33.000 They don't care.

00:53:35.000 They care if you get close to them, they'll run away.

00:53:37.000 But what they're there to do is what they've been doing for thousands of years.

00:53:44.000 It's so different.

00:53:45.000 You talk about how, you know, we got to LAX last night, and I'm just walking around going, and I don't 100% feel this way, but I'm like, I told you, I'm like, I hate people.

00:53:57.000 Well, it's just, there was so many.

00:54:00.000 It's like, we went from no people.

00:54:02.000 Oh, and that's, it's so enriching, and so, I don't know what.

00:54:08.000 I keep saying powerful.

00:54:10.000 It's a good word.

00:54:11.000 I use it all the time.

00:54:12.000 Hashtag.

00:54:13.000 Yeah, powerful Joe Rogan.

00:54:16.000 But in the mountains, it's, I don't know, it's so simple.

00:54:20.000 Life is so simple.

00:54:21.000 It is and it isn't, right?

00:54:23.000 Because it's super complicated.

00:54:24.000 Like, to survive out there, you have to have a lot of things work in your favor.

00:54:29.000 Yeah, but it's simple because either you survive or you don't.

00:54:32.000 Yeah, but it's not that simple because it's like...

00:54:35.000 Either you kill a bull or you don't.

00:54:37.000 Or you eat berries.

00:54:38.000 Adam made a lot of berries.

00:54:39.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:54:40.000 So, I mean, that's what I like.

00:54:42.000 I like about that it's simple.

00:54:44.000 Yeah.

00:54:44.000 There's no, you know, there's no different social classes of people.

00:54:49.000 There's no...

00:54:50.000 That's very important, right?

00:54:51.000 Yeah.

00:54:52.000 There's a thing that happens out there where you're clearly defined by your ability to perform under pressure only.

00:55:00.000 Yeah.

00:55:01.000 If you go out there and you're some famous rock star or something like that, here's some guy who lives in a giant mansion and flies around in a private jet and you own an island, but you choke when you're going to shoot a bull and you shoot it in the dick and everybody knows you're a loser.

00:55:19.000 You're a loser.

00:55:19.000 Isn't that amazing?

00:55:20.000 Yeah.

00:55:21.000 There's a leveling.

00:55:23.000 Out there, it's like the people who get respect, hunters get respect.

00:55:28.000 I mean, if you...

00:55:31.000 If you can navigate, if you can see elk, if you can read blood, if you're blood trailing, you got woodsmanship, you can unravel a blood trail, you can start a fire.

00:55:45.000 You're here.

00:55:46.000 It doesn't matter about how much money you have or who you are.

00:55:50.000 If you can't do any of that stuff, well, you're lower.

00:55:53.000 To me, it was incredibly important to be able to perform during crunch time.

00:55:59.000 Because I wanted the respect of the people that also do it.

00:56:03.000 I wanted, and to get that, it was very important.

00:56:06.000 To be able to, in that moment, and I spent so much time thinking about it, going over podcasts and All that Joel Turner stuff about target panic and about closed loop and open loop mind systems and how your brain functions under pressure and thinking about all these different things.

00:56:25.000 I put a lot of thought to it.

00:56:26.000 This might sound ridiculous to somebody who hasn't shot a bow.

00:56:29.000 They're like, what?

00:56:30.000 No, you just pull back and shoot, right?

00:56:32.000 No.

00:56:33.000 No.

00:56:34.000 No.

00:56:34.000 It's...

00:56:35.000 When you're looking at a 900-pound forest horse with spears growing out of its head, and it's screaming, and there's one shot, you have one opportunity.

00:56:45.000 And by the way, you only have one tag, and if you wound an animal, it's over.

00:56:50.000 If you just shot it in the ankle and it starts bleeding, guess what?

00:56:54.000 Your tag's over.

00:56:55.000 The money that you spent is done, you failed, and that thing lives to be an elk and lives another day.

00:57:02.000 For another day.

00:57:03.000 You go back disappointed and you have to start from scratch and rebuild yourself.

00:57:07.000 And that's good too.

00:57:09.000 The failure and the feeling of failure is the real motivator.

00:57:13.000 That's what makes you run more miles, shoot more arrows, work hard, think about it, think your way through this thing.

00:57:20.000 And to me that...

00:57:21.000 That leveling of the social classes is very important.

00:57:25.000 You know, it's something that I think jujitsu does as well.

00:57:28.000 There's another parallel in that.

00:57:30.000 And even comedy does that as well.

00:57:32.000 Because if you're not funny, people don't laugh and they don't like you.

00:57:36.000 Yeah.

00:57:36.000 You know, like you have to be able to do the thing.

00:57:39.000 And sometimes the thing doesn't work out and then you feel like fucking terrible.

00:57:43.000 Yeah.

00:57:45.000 That leveling of the classes that happens in bow hunting is hard.

00:57:52.000 I keep saying it's hard to describe because it really is.

00:57:56.000 I think anything that's very difficult to do, you find out more about yourself.

00:58:00.000 And when you find out more about yourself, you have two options.

00:58:03.000 Either you can go into denial or ignore it or fade back or you could face it.

00:58:10.000 And struggle more, and get better, and really work at it.

00:58:14.000 And that's where I think Bow hunting shares a lot of its aspects with other difficult but yet important things in life.

00:58:25.000 They become a vehicle for developing your human potential.

00:58:29.000 Yeah.

00:58:30.000 And running is like that, too.

00:58:32.000 Well, look what it's done for you.

00:58:33.000 I mean, your passion and obsession with elk hunting is what led you to being this crazy ultra-marathon runner.

00:58:42.000 I mean, that's really what started it all off.

00:58:44.000 Yeah, I wanted to be better in the mountains.

00:58:46.000 Yeah, better at...

00:58:47.000 I never really understood until I hunted with you.

00:58:50.000 Because when you would run up the top of a fucking hill, when an elk would go over the top, and you'd run up the hill, and I would just be struggling to go a quarter of the way, and I'd have to take a break, and then I'd go a little further and take a break, and you were over up there, and you weren't even out of breath.

00:59:05.000 And then I thought about it, I'm like, okay, I get it.

00:59:08.000 I get this now.

00:59:09.000 Like, there's a lot to this.

00:59:11.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:59:12.000 And that's...

00:59:14.000 You know, you talked about, it is, it's crazy that bow hunting has done what it's done.

00:59:20.000 I've been on Joe Rogan nine times.

00:59:23.000 Is this the ninth time?

00:59:24.000 Nine times.

00:59:26.000 And, you know, I don't, for me personally, because I just feel like I'm okay at bow, I'm decent at bow hunting, and it's like, just the fact that I was even here one time seems surreal, but I just, I want to think, I don't know,

00:59:41.000 I was thinking about this earlier, is because of bow hunting, I know people will say, because again, I read the comments, but...

00:59:50.000 Don't read the comments!

00:59:51.000 They'll talk about that, oh, it must be nice for Joe to be able to hunt wherever.

00:59:56.000 I mean, where we were was amazing.

00:59:59.000 Where we elk hunted is where I feel like I've had to work my whole life to get to.

01:00:04.000 To dream.

01:00:05.000 To killing bulls on public land, to starting with a spike bull, to 30 years of this, and it's a dream.

01:00:13.000 And it's like, I will never...

01:00:15.000 Take for granted what it means to hunt while we were hunting in Utah.

01:00:20.000 But it seems crazy to think that you grew up in Massachusetts, right?

01:00:25.000 Yeah.

01:00:26.000 Right.

01:00:26.000 You had a whole different journey.

01:00:29.000 You weren't some kid bowhunting, but you were a comedian and a fighter and whatever.

01:00:34.000 But bowhunting brought us together, and we shared this life-changing time in Utah from completely opposite paths.

01:00:45.000 And so, whether that's...

01:00:48.000 You know, you took your path to get to the best elk hunting in the world.

01:00:54.000 I took my path.

01:00:56.000 It doesn't matter.

01:00:57.000 We're hunters there, sharing the mountain, and taking on the challenge together.

01:01:02.000 And that's what bow hunting does. 0.97

01:01:04.000 It's like eliminates, you know, you're here in LA, it eliminates everything, and we're the same.

01:01:08.000 Yeah, all very difficult pursuits.

01:01:11.000 But we're the same there.

01:01:12.000 Eliminate all the bullshit, yeah.

01:01:13.000 And it's...

01:01:14.000 There's not very many things that can do that.

01:01:16.000 We named a few of them.

01:01:17.000 But it's just like, when you think about it like that, it seems unreal.

01:01:22.000 It does seem unreal.

01:01:23.000 But that also sort of really clearly defines why this discipline is so important to you and I. Well, and it's...

01:01:31.000 I don't know.

01:01:31.000 I think it's...

01:01:32.000 And hopefully we've opened the eyes of others to see that...

01:01:37.000 I don't know, to want that same type of experience.

01:01:40.000 You know, you might not be the same.

01:01:41.000 Not everybody's going to get to where we hunted in Utah.

01:01:44.000 Not even a great public land hunt.

01:01:46.000 I mean, I was listening to Brian Barney's podcast, the Eastman Elevated podcast, where he took a couple of buddies, when I was actually cutting up meat today, I was listening to this, took a couple of buddies with him on a public land hunt in Montana.

01:01:58.000 And they got into some elk, and it seemed like they had an amazing time.

01:02:01.000 It was the same sort of thing.

01:02:03.000 It was an amazing adventure.

01:02:05.000 It's available in a lot of different forms to a lot of people.

01:02:08.000 And there's a lot of people that go, oh, you know, this is bullshit.

01:02:12.000 Joe gets to do this, and Joe's lucky, and this and that.

01:02:14.000 I think it was hashtag bullshit.

01:02:16.000 Hashtag bullshit.

01:02:16.000 Yeah, guess what?

01:02:18.000 I'm lucky.

01:02:19.000 I've always been lucky.

01:02:20.000 I don't know what to do.

01:02:21.000 You want me to be unlucky?

01:02:22.000 I can't.

01:02:23.000 I'm just lucky.

01:02:24.000 I mean, maybe I'll be unlucky someday.

01:02:26.000 But you've worked your ass off.

01:02:26.000 Yeah.

01:02:27.000 That's also part of luck.

01:02:29.000 Part of luck is you have to...

01:02:31.000 What is that phrase, like, luck is when opportunity meets preparation?

01:02:37.000 You know, that's what some people say.

01:02:39.000 It's that, but it's also luck.

01:02:41.000 You know, there's people that are luckier than you.

01:02:43.000 You know, and by the way, there's people that are way fucking luckier than me.

01:02:46.000 You don't think Justin Bieber's luckier than me?

01:02:48.000 That little cunt. 1.00

01:02:49.000 He's never been poor in his life.

01:02:51.000 He's worth a hundred million bucks, and he's like 20 years old.

01:02:54.000 He probably has no calm in his body.

01:02:56.000 He's probably every day just drained.

01:02:58.000 He probably just has to eat raw eggs all day just to try to keep up.

01:03:03.000 Yeah, stay hydrated, Justin.

01:03:05.000 Yeah, stay hydrated, kid.

01:03:06.000 We're counting on you.

01:03:07.000 I mean, that little fucker's way more lucky than him.

01:03:10.000 Keep hammering.

01:03:12.000 Literally, there's always going to be people that are luckier than you.

01:03:16.000 And some of it is luck and some of it is courage.

01:03:20.000 Some of it is putting your ass out there.

01:03:22.000 Some of it is trying things.

01:03:23.000 One of the things that I always like to tell people that I think you should do is do shit that's difficult.

01:03:29.000 It's very important to struggle.

01:03:31.000 And it doesn't mean bowhunting.

01:03:32.000 I like yoga class.

01:03:34.000 For the same reason.

01:03:35.000 I go in there, it's me and a bunch of housewives, and they're kicking ass more than I am. 1.00

01:03:41.000 I mean, I watch these ladies, and I watch their mental strength and fortitude while they're grueling their way through this 104 degree temperature, holding these poses. 1.00

01:03:51.000 I'm watching the sweat pour off their face, and they're not complaining.

01:03:54.000 They're just You don't get to know yourself without struggle.

01:04:06.000 You don't get to know your boundaries unless you push them.

01:04:08.000 You don't get to know who you are, really, unless you're tested.

01:04:12.000 And there's too many weak pussies out there. 1.00

01:04:14.000 There's a lot of pussies out there. 1.00

01:04:14.000 And so those are the people that drive me crazy because everything you just said is so true, but there's so many people that would rather stand on the sidelines and say, oh, must be nice to be able to blah, blah, blah. 1.00

01:04:28.000 It's like, shut up.

01:04:29.000 Yeah, it is nice.

01:04:30.000 It's awesome.

01:04:31.000 You worked your ass off.

01:04:33.000 Come follow me, bitch. 1.00

01:04:34.000 Yeah.

01:04:34.000 Come do what I do.

01:04:36.000 Good luck.

01:04:36.000 Those are the people...

01:04:38.000 When you were talking about running, you were involved, and someone was behind you, and they were running right on your tail, and you're like, oh, let's see how this works out for you.

01:04:48.000 It's like, it's not even a cocky thing.

01:04:51.000 It's like, there's no way a regular person is going to keep up with you in a race.

01:04:55.000 It's just not going to happen.

01:04:57.000 Let's see how this works out.

01:04:59.000 But that's just because they're not getting up at 5 o'clock in the morning.

01:05:03.000 I follow your Instagram.

01:05:04.000 You're fucking running before work.

01:05:06.000 You know, you're running a marathon a day for people that don't know.

01:05:10.000 You're literally preparing right now.

01:05:12.000 While Cam is in the middle of bow hunting season, he takes a little bit of time off of this fucking insane preparation, which is good because it allows his body to heal, but he's going to compete in the Moab In October, that is 238 fucking miles.

01:05:27.000 It's a straight race.

01:05:29.000 It's not 238 miles over the course of a month.

01:05:31.000 No, no, no.

01:05:32.000 It's 238 miles from beginning, ready, go, to the races over, 238 miles.

01:05:39.000 It'll take, what, three days?

01:05:41.000 I don't know.

01:05:42.000 We don't know.

01:05:42.000 78 hours to do 205, right?

01:05:45.000 The Bigfoot 200 that you did?

01:05:46.000 He ran 205 fucking miles in 78 hours.

01:05:51.000 So shut your mouth.

01:05:53.000 Yeah.

01:05:53.000 You know, if you think, oh, must be nice, must be nice.

01:05:56.000 There's levels to this life.

01:05:58.000 There's levels to dedication, to discipline, to drive, to focus, to obsession.

01:06:05.000 There's levels to it.

01:06:06.000 And if you're sitting on the sideline going, must be nice, guess what, pussy? 1.00

01:06:12.000 You're not doing this.

01:06:13.000 This is Moab here.

01:06:15.000 Goddamn.

01:06:16.000 Look at this horrendous fucking terrain.

01:06:18.000 They're running on a mountain.

01:06:20.000 Jesus Christ!

01:06:21.000 Look at this video.

01:06:22.000 For people who are listening only, I urge you to please go.

01:06:27.000 Jamie, what is the video?

01:06:29.000 Official trailer for the Moab 200. Moab 200. I love how they call it 200. Meanwhile, it's 238. You're like, oh, I did it.

01:06:36.000 No, you're not, pussy! 0.57

01:06:37.000 You got another 38 miles!

01:06:38.000 No!

01:06:39.000 But the terrain is fucking insane.

01:06:43.000 It's insane.

01:06:44.000 So that's Moab.

01:06:45.000 I've never run in Moab, which is the draw for me.

01:06:49.000 I've been in the mountains a lot.

01:06:50.000 I haven't been...

01:06:51.000 What's going to be tough about this race...

01:06:54.000 Specifically is you see how there's no shade so that's what what we call that is it's exposed you're exposed the whole time to the Sun and That that looks at Candace right there.

01:07:05.000 Who's a race director.

01:07:06.000 She's running this in this trailer right here So this is her brainchild basically and She must be a savage. 1.00

01:07:13.000 She is she's a total stud. 1.00

01:07:15.000 I mean she's she's look at this terrain.

01:07:17.000 She's run a bunch of done really well in hundred mile ultras This terrain is fucking magnificent!

01:07:24.000 Right, so being exposed like that, that just sucks everything out of you.

01:07:28.000 The sun can just sap you.

01:07:30.000 Keeping your skin covered as well as you can, keeping hydrated, keeping fueled up, that's just the name of the game.

01:07:38.000 Now what shoes will you be running in?

01:07:41.000 It'll be, you know, my Under Armour fat tires is what I'll be running in because that much pounding for that long, the cushion for my body is important and imperative, basically.

01:07:52.000 And the fat tires, the Under Armour fat tires, how much different are they than the Under Armour fat tire hunting boots?

01:07:57.000 Because I know they have those too.

01:07:59.000 The soles are similar.

01:08:00.000 Similar.

01:08:01.000 Yeah.

01:08:01.000 Is much cushioning?

01:08:02.000 Yeah.

01:08:02.000 Okay, so you get a good amount of cushioning and also a good amount of traction, right?

01:08:06.000 Because basically the fat tires, the reason why they're named that way is because essentially the bottoms of them are like a BMX road racing mountain bike tire.

01:08:16.000 Yeah, they had a mountain bike tire called Fat Tire.

01:08:18.000 And I think Michelin made it.

01:08:21.000 So Michelin makes these same soles for the Under Armour shoes.

01:08:24.000 And that's what I generally trained in because...

01:08:27.000 Running a marathon a day, that's what I was trying to do before season.

01:08:31.000 Season is kind of...

01:08:33.000 Hopefully it's going to pay off.

01:08:35.000 Hunting season.

01:08:35.000 Yeah, hunting season has interrupted my training.

01:08:38.000 But I sort of had this game plan where this would be the time I'd recover.

01:08:45.000 So my whole training slogan is train hard, hunt easy.

01:08:50.000 Meaning that I want my training to be harder than any hunt I could go on.

01:08:54.000 So the hunt seems like...

01:08:56.000 It's easier.

01:08:57.000 Easier than my training.

01:08:58.000 And that's kind of what's been going on.

01:09:02.000 I mean, the Utah country was tough.

01:09:03.000 It was high.

01:09:04.000 It was steep.

01:09:05.000 There's lots of walking.

01:09:07.000 But it was easier than running a marathon a day.

01:09:10.000 So I felt good.

01:09:12.000 There's the fat tires.

01:09:13.000 So those shoes also allow you to run over sharp rocks and things.

01:09:17.000 And it'll absorb that.

01:09:19.000 So it'll give your feet some protection.

01:09:22.000 Obviously, this is an incredibly difficult pursuit that you're about to do.

01:09:25.000 Yeah, there they are.

01:09:26.000 That was a photo back home.

01:09:28.000 But, yeah, those shoes, they've worked well for me.

01:09:33.000 They're great.

01:09:34.000 They've kept my body healthy with all the pounding.

01:09:36.000 You know, people always ask about knees and hips and everything else.

01:09:39.000 Yeah, you know, I've run a lot in those minimalist shoes, but I don't think you could.

01:09:43.000 I mean, maybe you could.

01:09:44.000 Does anybody run these fucking ultra-marathons in minimalist shoes?

01:09:48.000 No.

01:09:48.000 You just can't, right?

01:09:49.000 Not that I've ever seen.

01:09:50.000 It just seems like it's too much.

01:09:52.000 But there's, you know...

01:09:54.000 Everybody's different.

01:09:54.000 There probably is somebody who can, because they're 20-some years old, and they feel great, and for whatever reason...

01:10:01.000 Maybe they've been doing it in those shoes for a long time.

01:10:04.000 Their body mechanics are different than mine.

01:10:06.000 They're lighter than me.

01:10:07.000 So yeah, maybe they could.

01:10:09.000 I never lump anybody in like, oh, you can't do this, or you can't do that.

01:10:12.000 They might be able to.

01:10:13.000 I can't.

01:10:14.000 That's another thing, too, about you, is that you're lifting a lot of weights, too, because you also need strength for hunting.

01:10:21.000 You need strength to pull the bow back.

01:10:22.000 You need strength to be able to pack out the meat.

01:10:25.000 There's a lot of other aspects to what you need out of your body that maybe the regular ultramarathon endurance runner doesn't.

01:10:33.000 Yeah, I've tried to...

01:10:36.000 I've tweaked my training over the years.

01:10:38.000 There was a time where all I was doing was running 20 miles a day, not lifting, hardly eating, and I was down to 150-some pounds.

01:10:45.000 So now I try to...

01:10:46.000 That didn't work that great for hunting because I'm trying to pack meat in the mountains.

01:10:51.000 You just felt tired?

01:10:53.000 Yeah, I just didn't feel at my best.

01:10:55.000 I could still kill.

01:10:56.000 I could still get the job done, but I felt like I wasn't at my best.

01:11:00.000 So now I feel like what I do now...

01:11:04.000 This is a small shirt, so it's like, don't be tricked by that I'm filling out the shirt too much.

01:11:09.000 That's size small?

01:11:10.000 Size small.

01:11:10.000 How dare you?

01:11:12.000 That's because of Jed.

01:11:14.000 Fucking Jed.

01:11:15.000 I know.

01:11:15.000 He's got a Grateful Dead shirt on out there.

01:11:16.000 Yeah, I'm like, hey, you got any size mediums for me?

01:11:20.000 And he's like, oh, they're all gone.

01:11:21.000 So here I am.

01:11:22.000 I'm stuck with the small, so I might look like I'm more jacked than I really am.

01:11:25.000 You're pretty jacked, dude.

01:11:26.000 I've worked out with you.

01:11:27.000 Stop.

01:11:28.000 But it's just unusual for someone who's an endurance athlete who does like these long, you know, 200 plus mile races to actually be packing on a lot of muscle.

01:11:37.000 Yeah.

01:11:37.000 It's one of the reasons why whenever someone would talk about UFC fighters not being able to make the weight or, you know, whatever, you know, complaints they have about not being able to make weight.

01:11:47.000 I'm like, my friend Cam...

01:11:50.000 Literally, you make your body eat itself to drop down.

01:11:54.000 You were at 180 plus pounds before you started, and then when you went to run the Bigfoot 200, you were burning 3,000 calories and eating 2,000, right?

01:12:06.000 Yeah, 1,000 calorie deficit.

01:12:07.000 So if I was burning 4, I'd eat 3. Or if I was burning 3, I'd eat 2. Something like that.

01:12:12.000 So I try to be at a deficit of 1,000 calories every day.

01:12:16.000 And your body was just eating itself.

01:12:17.000 Yeah, so when I went into that race, I was 160, what was I, 165, and I had been on 184, so I lost 19 pounds just at that calorie deficit and just...

01:12:28.000 The key with those is being light.

01:12:31.000 You know, the lighter you are, I mean, the best ultra runners are generally 140 pounds, maybe 6 foot.

01:12:38.000 You know, I mean, just light.

01:12:40.000 And that's just, to be efficient, that works best.

01:12:42.000 Is it longer legs is more efficient?

01:12:44.000 Is that why it's better to be 6 foot and really skinny?

01:12:47.000 No, I'm just, I mean, maybe I'm just kind of...

01:12:50.000 Generalizing, but that seems like those are good runners are about that size. 0.91

01:12:54.000 Is that like Goggins, David Goggins?

01:12:56.000 I think he's a little bigger.

01:12:58.000 He's more muscular than most, but he's a freak.

01:13:03.000 He's a mental freak.

01:13:04.000 He's a freak.

01:13:05.000 Dude, that guy's so inspiring.

01:13:06.000 You ever listen to him talk about mental toughness?

01:13:09.000 All the time.

01:13:09.000 I listen to...

01:13:10.000 He did a podcast with...

01:13:13.000 Rich Roll.

01:13:14.000 Oh, there's another guy I love.

01:13:16.000 Yeah, and so I listened to him on that podcast.

01:13:18.000 I've listened to it like three times because anytime you think that, oh, you got it hard or you can't do this or you can't do that.

01:13:27.000 There's levels.

01:13:27.000 Come on.

01:13:28.000 There's levels.

01:13:29.000 And that's another one.

01:13:30.000 You can't lump everybody into the same category and say, well, if David Goggins did this...

01:13:35.000 You can't do what David Goggins does because you're not David Goggins.

01:13:37.000 If you want to become David Goggins, good fucking love.

01:13:40.000 I don't stop when I'm tired.

01:13:41.000 I stop when I'm done.

01:13:43.000 Yeah.

01:13:44.000 He's intense.

01:13:45.000 He has another saying that I think of all the time when I'm running, that most people quit at 40%.

01:13:49.000 Yeah, I know.

01:13:50.000 And that's 100% true.

01:13:52.000 And I've found that, you know, there's lots of times where I want to quit and I think of...

01:13:57.000 Click on that picture right there, Jamie, where you see his abs.

01:13:59.000 You just had your cursor.

01:14:01.000 Yeah.

01:14:01.000 That's a jacked dude for someone who runs hundreds of miles.

01:14:05.000 And did you know he was over 300 pounds twice in his life?

01:14:10.000 Yeah, fat and lethargic.

01:14:12.000 He wanted to be a Navy SEAL. Yeah, look at him there.

01:14:14.000 He's over 300 there.

01:14:15.000 They said he had to lose something like a hundred or eighty pounds in just a number of months, and he did.

01:14:22.000 Yeah, and didn't he also break a world record in suffering is the true test of life?

01:14:28.000 No, he broke the world record in pull-ups.

01:14:30.000 Yeah, that's what I was gonna say.

01:14:32.000 How many pull-ups did he do?

01:14:34.000 4,030.

01:14:35.000 In how many minutes?

01:14:38.000 17 hours.

01:14:40.000 What in the fuck?

01:14:42.000 Let's see some video.

01:14:43.000 In 17 hours.

01:14:45.000 What do his shoulders look like?

01:14:47.000 What's the inside?

01:14:48.000 It's just all scar tissue holding that thing together?

01:14:50.000 Let's see if they can find a video, Jamie.

01:14:52.000 Because I've seen a video of him doing...

01:14:55.000 David completed 2,588 pull-ups in 566 sets for a total of 4.6 pull-ups per set, 1,000 pull-ups in 2 hours, 48 minutes, and 2,000 pull-ups in 3,034 minutes.

01:15:10.000 But at 13.5 hours in, he felt something in his wrist snap and was not able to go on.

01:15:15.000 An x-ray at 10.30 confirmed a partial tear in his forearm.

01:15:19.000 Wow.

01:15:20.000 So that's when he failed twice to break the record, and then he ended up getting it.

01:15:26.000 Wow.

01:15:27.000 See if he can get to a video, because there's a video of him doing it, and it's just savage.

01:15:32.000 He would do like sets of five.

01:15:37.000 So he'd do five, then drop down.

01:15:41.000 Take a break for a sec, do five more, and he kept doing that is when I saw that.

01:15:45.000 Well, you know, that's that Pavel Tatsulin's idea of strength training.

01:15:51.000 I think I've told you that.

01:15:52.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:15:52.000 He believes that you should only, like, if you can do sets of more than five, that what you're doing is bodybuilding.

01:16:00.000 And that you should do five with very clean technique, take a big break, and then do another five, and then just keep doing it for long periods of time.

01:16:07.000 Like, ideally, maybe some people don't have the time to do those kinds of workouts, but he believes you should do, like, with five to ten minute rest in between workout sets, and just do a bunch of sets like that.

01:16:18.000 And I've been doing that for a while now.

01:16:20.000 And I feel less sore, less fatigue, I can do it more often, and I just feel like you make better progress that way.

01:16:27.000 I think there's something to it.

01:16:28.000 I think we have a lot of meathead ideas in our head of what you're supposed to do as far as working out, as far as going to failure all the time with heavy weights.

01:16:38.000 That's the only way to get strong.

01:16:40.000 I don't necessarily think that's true.

01:16:41.000 No, but I will say everyone's different.

01:16:45.000 Yeah, but here's the thing where I should have a caveat.

01:16:47.000 If you're a powerlifter, I should shut the fuck up. 1.00

01:16:51.000 Because if all you're trying to do is massive amounts of weight like a lot of these guys do, well then they're going to push their body quite a bit more than I am.

01:17:02.000 I see guys all the time do things that most people would say you should never do.

01:17:07.000 And they have a lot of success.

01:17:10.000 Nobody's going to say you should run a marathon every day.

01:17:13.000 They're gonna say that's a good way to get injured and that's too much in your body.

01:17:17.000 You're not you're not getting the most out of your body Nobody's like when I lift I try to do tons of reps, you know at least 20 reps per set But you're doing lighter weights.

01:17:26.000 Yeah, you're not trying to go to failure with heavy weights Try to go to failure with everything if 20 doesn't get it then I'll do 40, you know, so it's but you know You're not trying to go to failure with like 305 for bench.

01:17:38.000 No, no, no.

01:17:39.000 Yes.

01:17:39.000 That's what I'm talking about.

01:17:39.000 That's where people get hurt No, but So, people need to find what works for them, basically.

01:17:46.000 I mean, there's a lot of schools of thought on like, okay, for the average person, do this.

01:17:51.000 Right.

01:17:52.000 And that works for most people.

01:17:53.000 But it's not going to work for David Goggins.

01:17:55.000 Right.

01:17:56.000 It depends on your goals and your body and your ability.

01:17:58.000 And what you're trying to accomplish.

01:18:00.000 And your dedication.

01:18:00.000 Right.

01:18:01.000 And what is a standard routine for someone who's trying to run an ultramarathon?

01:18:05.000 So if you're running a marathon a day, is that a normal thing?

01:18:08.000 Do you guys communicate with each other?

01:18:10.000 Because there's only a fucking handful of you.

01:18:12.000 Yeah, I don't.

01:18:13.000 Do you talk to those people, or are you just doing what you think you should do?

01:18:16.000 Yeah, I've never talked to anybody about training.

01:18:18.000 What?

01:18:19.000 No.

01:18:20.000 You don't talk to any of those people?

01:18:21.000 So you just go out there and do your shit?

01:18:23.000 Yeah.

01:18:24.000 What a freak.

01:18:24.000 No.

01:18:26.000 There's guys that train...

01:18:29.000 I'm trying to think of...

01:18:31.000 Oh, Jim Walmsy.

01:18:33.000 And he's amazing.

01:18:37.000 I mean, I have zero ability compared to this guy.

01:18:39.000 I think he's about 26. He lives down in Arizona.

01:18:43.000 And he's been trying to break the Western States 100 ultramarathon record for two years now.

01:18:49.000 Last year, he was on pace to break it.

01:18:52.000 He was like at mile 90, and I don't know, 20, 40 some minutes ahead of course record pace.

01:19:00.000 Took the wrong turn, because this is in the mountains.

01:19:02.000 It starts at Squaw Valley and ends in Auburn.

01:19:05.000 Took the wrong trail and went off course and ended up finishing 20th, you know, because he had to backtrack and it mentally broke him.

01:19:16.000 So, he was going to come back this year better than ever in his training.

01:19:20.000 And he'd be, like, running, you know, 140-mile weeks.

01:19:24.000 So, 20 miles a day.

01:19:26.000 Probably 150-mile weeks.

01:19:28.000 There are some guys that do more than that.

01:19:31.000 But anyway, this year, he came in and he, again, went ahead...

01:19:36.000 Was ahead of course record pace and an ultramarathon term or maybe a running term in general is he blew up at mile 76 I think and had to drop.

01:19:45.000 So he went too hard?

01:19:46.000 Yep.

01:19:47.000 Wow.

01:19:48.000 What's the record?

01:19:49.000 What is he trying to break?

01:19:50.000 What's the actual record?

01:19:51.000 The record for that is like 14 something.

01:19:55.000 14 hours.

01:19:57.000 Now, there's a guy who just broke the ultramarathon record for a flat 100. Not in the mountains like you do, but a flat one.

01:20:06.000 And he's on a high-fat diet, right?

01:20:10.000 Isn't he on?

01:20:10.000 Jamie, we talked about that guy recently.

01:20:12.000 He's on a ketogenic diet.

01:20:14.000 Yeah.

01:20:14.000 And he broke the...

01:20:15.000 He was on a track.

01:20:16.000 It was a 24-hour record, and he ran 100. I can't remember how many...

01:20:22.000 How many miles it was.

01:20:23.000 Yeah, but you felt like maybe for the mountains you might want to alter your diet.

01:20:30.000 Maybe that's not the...

01:20:32.000 For me.

01:20:33.000 Yeah.

01:20:33.000 Have you ever tried a fat-based diet or a ketogenic diet?

01:20:37.000 I don't know what you call it, but my buddies I've lived with back home, Nick Hammond and Eric McCormick, they both do bodybuilding competitions.

01:20:46.000 Outlaw Strength.

01:20:47.000 Right, exactly.

01:20:49.000 Outlaw Strength.

01:20:49.000 I love that guy.

01:20:50.000 Good dude.

01:20:51.000 And Nick the trainer dude.

01:20:52.000 Yeah.

01:20:52.000 And so to get lean for those shows, basically you cut the carbs out.

01:20:57.000 Right.

01:20:58.000 And as many proteins and greens as you want.

01:21:01.000 So you can have salad and steak.

01:21:03.000 So I've done that and I've got down to 6% body fat just to see what it was like.

01:21:07.000 And that's essentially what that is.

01:21:09.000 And do you feel like you perform any differently on that?

01:21:12.000 Terrible.

01:21:12.000 You felt terrible?

01:21:14.000 Terrible.

01:21:14.000 What felt terrible about it?

01:21:16.000 Oh, no strength, no endurance, because no carbs.

01:21:20.000 Hmm, so zero carbs?

01:21:22.000 No, no, no.

01:21:23.000 Just vegetables for carbs? 0.94

01:21:25.000 No, on a low carb day, it'd be 50 to 75 grams of carbs.

01:21:29.000 Did you ever get your blood sugar checked to see if you're ketogenic?

01:21:33.000 Hell no.

01:21:35.000 It's interesting because I feel like it's very important to talk about that everybody's body is different.

01:21:41.000 You know who's a great proponent of this is Rob Wolf.

01:21:44.000 And one of the really interesting things about Rob Wolf is a scientist and a very, very smart guy when it comes to nutrition and health.

01:21:50.000 Writes a lot of books about paleo diets.

01:21:52.000 But one of the more interesting things that Rob does is he will eat the same thing as his wife And they'll both test themselves, test their blood, and he'll do it on video.

01:22:02.000 And his wife is consistently more adaptive than he is.

01:22:06.000 Like, they're eating the same thing.

01:22:08.000 But his body, for whatever reason, doesn't perform as well processing carbohydrates as hers does.

01:22:14.000 I see.

01:22:15.000 And she can stay in a ketogenic state and eat far more carbs than he can. 1.00

01:22:19.000 Okay.

01:22:20.000 I'm going to let you in on a little secret.

01:22:24.000 Oh.

01:22:25.000 I don't even know what the hell ketogenic means.

01:22:28.000 I've heard keto this, ketogenic.

01:22:31.000 I'm like, what is it?

01:22:33.000 Okay.

01:22:33.000 In a state of ketosis, your body burns off fat instead of carbohydrates.

01:22:39.000 And you have to have an adaptation period where your body goes from carbohydrates to fats as a fuel source.

01:22:48.000 And your brain uses ketones.

01:22:52.000 And your body uses ketones for fuel instead of carbohydrates and glucose.

01:22:56.000 Is there an advantage?

01:22:58.000 Yes, and I would suggest that anybody who's interested in this go to my podcast with Dom D'Agostino.

01:23:05.000 It was four months ago, maybe.

01:23:09.000 Or Tim Ferriss's podcast with Dom D'Agostino is also an excellent resource.

01:23:15.000 And there's advantages in terms of your body's ability to fight off disease and cancer.

01:23:21.000 Cognitive ability improves.

01:23:23.000 Maybe you'd be smarter, bro.

01:23:25.000 I doubt it.

01:23:27.000 Could I bow hunt better?

01:23:29.000 What's that?

01:23:29.000 994. Episode 994 of this podcast.

01:23:33.000 And yeah, you'd bow hunt awesome in it.

01:23:35.000 Well, I just think you need a lot of fat, though.

01:23:37.000 And maybe with your diet, you are not taking in enough fat.

01:23:42.000 Like, you have to have a lot of fat.

01:23:43.000 Yeah.

01:23:44.000 Animal fat, avocados, coconut oil.

01:23:46.000 Yeah, that's one thing Nick told me the other day, because I was just like, we lifted, and I'm so weak.

01:23:53.000 Weak, because I was running so much, right?

01:23:56.000 And so we did just a few quick calculations and if you run a marathon a day at my weight it was and then just living because just living you're gonna burn 1700 calories a day for me then plus the 3300 or something that I'd burn when running a marathon so it was like 5000 calories and I was eating three.

01:24:18.000 So I was 2000 in deficit.

01:24:22.000 That's too much.

01:24:23.000 Yeah, so he said I needed to just ramp up the fats, you know, so I started hammering nuts, avocados, things like that, and I actually did, I was feeling better.

01:24:33.000 We lifted again and I felt better.

01:24:35.000 Yeah, I think that's the big part of the ketogenic diet that people get wrong, is that your ketogenic diet is primarily fats, and then you have an adequate amount of protein, dependent upon how much activity you do, You obviously do a lot of activity you would need more Protein than most and I think you would also probably need more actual carbohydrates than most yeah and still stay in ketosis I think if that's probably one of the reasons why you were so tired and you felt weak but also I think This thing that you're doing,

01:25:03.000 most people are just not going to do.

01:25:05.000 No.

01:25:05.000 They're not going to burn three and eat two.

01:25:07.000 They're just not going to do it.

01:25:08.000 There's no blueprint for getting ready for a 200-mile race.

01:25:11.000 Yeah.

01:25:12.000 So I'm trying to figure it out as I go.

01:25:14.000 So you don't talk to...

01:25:15.000 This is what freaks me out, is you don't talk to other ultramarathon people.

01:25:19.000 I hate people.

01:25:23.000 But you like me!

01:25:24.000 I do.

01:25:25.000 No.

01:25:25.000 I like...

01:25:26.000 I like...

01:25:27.000 You like a lot of people, man!

01:25:29.000 No, I like...

01:25:31.000 Most people fall short of your expectations.

01:25:34.000 Yeah.

01:25:34.000 I like winners.

01:25:35.000 I like strong people.

01:25:36.000 I like people who don't judge other people.

01:25:38.000 I like people...

01:25:39.000 Well, you don't like me, then.

01:25:40.000 I judge everybody.

01:25:41.000 No.

01:25:41.000 I judge you.

01:25:42.000 I judge Jamie.

01:25:43.000 No.

01:25:43.000 What the fucking shirt he's wearing?

01:25:45.000 No.

01:25:46.000 I mean...

01:25:49.000 I just don't like complainers.

01:25:50.000 Right.

01:25:51.000 And so there's not a lot of people who I'm...

01:25:55.000 I don't know.

01:25:56.000 I want to respect people.

01:25:58.000 Well, I think that with the level of output that you're putting out and the amount of focus and dedication to these things, the amount of obsession to performing at a 200-plus mile race...

01:26:09.000 Any whiny bullshit that you hear is just so much more magnified than what I hear.

01:26:14.000 Yeah.

01:26:15.000 You know, like if I hear whiny stuff from my seven-year-old, it becomes funny because I start going, oh, are you going to be okay?

01:26:22.000 Are you going to be okay?

01:26:23.000 And she's like, stop it, daddy.

01:26:24.000 And I go, what are you going to do?

01:26:25.000 Are you going to beat me up?

01:26:26.000 I go, come on, punk.

01:26:27.000 And then she'll get off the couch and she'll kick me and then we'll have a little fun and play around together. 1.00

01:26:31.000 Right.

01:26:31.000 But she's seven.

01:26:33.000 If I hear whiny stuff from a grown adult, I'm like, Jesus fucking Christ.

01:26:38.000 We live in a world where if it's cold out, you press a button and it gets warm.

01:26:43.000 We live in a world where water, the thing that keeps us alive that people struggle to find in most of the free world, comes out of a fucking, you have a lever in your sink, in every sink, in every bathroom where you can just drink fresh water.

01:26:56.000 Glug, glug, glug, glug, glug.

01:26:57.000 It's like, what are you complaining about?

01:26:58.000 The fuck?

01:26:59.000 What the fuck are you complaining about?

01:27:00.000 You're complaining about because Joe Rogan can go elk hunting here and you can't.

01:27:03.000 Hashtag bullshit.

01:27:04.000 Yeah.

01:27:05.000 I mean, so that's the kind of stuff that...

01:27:07.000 Must be nice.

01:27:08.000 I pretty much don't listen to anybody except people who I know share my mindset about not just on running or whatever, just about on life.

01:27:16.000 But that's why I'm just confused as to why you don't have a group of people that you're close to that are also ultra-marathon runners that you can compare notes with.

01:27:24.000 There's not a lot of people that do those.

01:27:26.000 I mean, yeah, my brother does ultras.

01:27:28.000 My brother is a stud.

01:27:32.000 How odd.

01:27:35.000 Some genetics in that family, huh?

01:27:36.000 Wasn't your dad a big-time athlete, too?

01:27:38.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:27:39.000 Actually, I have no talent compared to my dad, so my dad was...

01:27:45.000 Not an ultra freak.

01:27:47.000 He's just an athletic freak.

01:27:51.000 But my brother, he does a lot of miles.

01:27:55.000 We just kind of do our own thing.

01:27:56.000 We know what it takes.

01:27:58.000 You've got to pound out miles.

01:27:59.000 Your dad was trying to compete in the Olympics, right?

01:28:02.000 No, no, no.

01:28:03.000 I think...

01:28:05.000 He had Olympic potential.

01:28:07.000 So what happened is he was a high jumper and a long jumper.

01:28:12.000 My daughter was doing pole vaulting last year and they kind of hurt.

01:28:19.000 My dad was an awesome pole vaulter at South Eugene High School.

01:28:23.000 He was the first athlete inducted into their Hall of Fame.

01:28:29.000 They did that right before he died.

01:28:31.000 Which Hall of Fame?

01:28:32.000 In the South Eugene Hall of Fame, that high school there in Eugene.

01:28:37.000 Anyway, so these coaches at where my daughter was doing pole vaulting, they said, you know, after a few different practices, they'd heard about, you know, her and me and who her grandpa was.

01:28:50.000 And so he comes up and he's like, he goes, was your dad Bob Haynes?

01:28:55.000 I'm like, yeah.

01:28:56.000 And he goes, Yeah, he was a legend around here because they went to high school together and now they've been coaching and he just said that everybody knew Bob Haynes and he could do things nobody else could do.

01:29:11.000 I think where he would have had his success was in high jump and he could high jump 6'4", and what he did at that time was called the Western Roll.

01:29:20.000 And so you just kind of roll over the bar and then he'd competed against Dick Fosbury and he invented the Fosbury flop.

01:29:27.000 So you'd go with your back to the bar and then kick your legs over.

01:29:31.000 And so they would compete and my dad earned a scholarship at Oregon for gymnastics and then Oregon State for track when they had track and ended up dropping out of both schools and They said that he could high jump 6'4",

01:29:51.000 doing the western roll, and they said, well, we're going to teach you the Fosbury flop, and we should be able to add 8 to 12 inches onto your jump.

01:29:58.000 So that would put him at 7 feet.

01:29:59.000 And that would have been up there with Dick Fosbury.

01:30:03.000 And...

01:30:05.000 So my dad ended up dropping out of school or whatever happened and I was born and then my brother was born.

01:30:11.000 You know how life gets in the way.

01:30:13.000 And then meanwhile, Dick Fosbury went to the Olympics and won the gold medal.

01:30:17.000 So it's just who knows what would have happened.

01:30:21.000 Fact is, he was an amazing athlete.

01:30:23.000 If you just want to sing just in high school, that's fine.

01:30:26.000 But he was a D1 athlete in two different sports.

01:30:30.000 I don't have that potential.

01:30:33.000 What I have is just a hard work ethic.

01:30:38.000 That's what I translate.

01:30:39.000 Without the athletic talents maybe that he has, I might have the work ethic That might match a talent and that's what I've used to do ultras because basically that's just being tough I mean I think I think it's just grinding and and put in miles and training and Then getting where everybody else wants to quit and pushing through in the races So you don't like have a few friends like I know what was the woman's name that runs Candace you

01:31:10.000 can just burn your friends with her and the in your friends with your brother Obviously who also runs ultra.

01:31:14.000 Yeah, do you have other?

01:31:16.000 Friends that do this that you like email with or text message.

01:31:19.000 No one.

01:31:20.000 No.

01:31:20.000 Is that normal?

01:31:22.000 I don't know.

01:31:23.000 I mean ultra runners in general are are fucking weirdos weirdos, but Independent right, you know you have to be you can't rely on anybody.

01:31:34.000 You know you can't Who's gonna tell me to go run a marathon every day?

01:31:39.000 Right.

01:31:39.000 Everybody's gonna say that's too much.

01:31:41.000 You don't need to do that.

01:31:42.000 So it's like ultra runners are independent.

01:31:45.000 How long have they been doing ultra marathons?

01:31:48.000 Well, the Western States 100 started in 1974. Whoa.

01:31:54.000 And what were the old times?

01:31:55.000 Like what was like a good time back then to do 100?

01:31:58.000 What they started...

01:31:59.000 See, Western States started as a horse race and they still do it.

01:32:02.000 With horses?

01:32:03.000 Yep, the Tevis Cup.

01:32:04.000 And so it's the same course with the same goal is cover 100 miles in under 24 hours.

01:32:12.000 So if you do that, you get the buckle and it says 100 miles one day.

01:32:16.000 And that's like the gold medal for an ultra runner.

01:32:21.000 So they have that same thing for horses and Gordon Ainsley was He was in the horse race his horse came up lame and he said well i'm going to finish it on my own on his on his feet jesus and so he did that and that's where western states endurance race or run began because it's like well let's just let's just do this on our feet what a animal that guy was right yeah and he still competes in the western states right now he's old how old is he but he can't break 20 he

01:32:51.000 can't even break 30. so you can get a buckle 100 miles one day if you break 24. if you break 30 A cookie?

01:32:59.000 No, you get a buckle just as Western States Endurance Run. 0.89

01:33:03.000 But if you don't break 30, you get nothing.

01:33:08.000 So he's tried for...

01:33:10.000 I think when I ran it in 2010...

01:33:14.000 God, what was he?

01:33:15.000 60-some, probably?

01:33:17.000 He, at the 30-mile cutoff, he was at like the 90-some-mile cutoff.

01:33:25.000 Oh, the 30-hour cutoff.

01:33:26.000 Yeah.

01:33:27.000 And so he was at the 90-some-mile at 30 hours, so he was done.

01:33:31.000 Right.

01:33:32.000 But anyway, so he tries every year, and he gets a long way for being 70. So he's almost 70. I think he's over 70 now.

01:33:39.000 Wow.

01:33:39.000 Yeah.

01:33:40.000 But anyway, so he started that and that was in the 70s.

01:33:42.000 And then nowadays, there's more races.

01:33:46.000 Every state, a lot of states out west have 100 miles.

01:33:50.000 You know, that's kind of the ultra scene is in the mountains out here.

01:33:54.000 Does he do the ones in the mountains?

01:33:56.000 Well, Western States is in the mountains.

01:33:58.000 It is in the mountains.

01:33:59.000 That starts at Squaw Valley.

01:34:00.000 So it's a lot of elevation.

01:34:01.000 There's a lot of...

01:34:02.000 That race has 41,000 feet of elevation change.

01:34:06.000 Wow.

01:34:06.000 So you're gaining 18,000 and you're losing 21. Overall, the course goes from Squaw Valley down to Auburn.

01:34:13.000 But in the course of that, it's up and down, up and down, up and down.

01:34:16.000 And so you're gaining 18 over the course of the 100 miles and losing 21. Wow.

01:34:21.000 Or something like that.

01:34:22.000 It's 41,000 difference.

01:34:23.000 And even running down is still difficult because you're decelerating.

01:34:27.000 You have to stop your momentum down.

01:34:29.000 So for a 70-plus-year-old guy to do that.

01:34:31.000 That's one thing about it.

01:34:32.000 So you start at that race, and they always say, once you get into the canyon there, don't bomb downhill too fast, which is sort of early in the race.

01:34:41.000 It's before mile 50. But if you bomb downhill too fast in the canyons, you'll blow your quads out.

01:34:47.000 You won't be finishing the race.

01:34:49.000 So you'll pound your quads too much.

01:34:51.000 Even though you could go fast downhill, you've got to take it easy because you've got to preserve your quads.

01:34:56.000 So your quads are getting used in the decelerating.

01:34:59.000 Yep.

01:35:00.000 Interesting.

01:35:01.000 Yeah, they're getting pounded.

01:35:02.000 And where we are now, and Candice Burt with her, she has, I think it's, so she's got Bigfoot, Tahoe, Moab.

01:35:14.000 Yeah, she's got three 200s. 0.98

01:35:15.000 So now her thing is 200s are the new 100 or whatever.

01:35:23.000 But anyway, the next level is 200 miles.

01:35:26.000 Well, yeah, she calls them 200s.

01:35:28.000 I'm like, 238. Yeah, you gotta say 238. That's not just rounding.

01:35:32.000 I don't know.

01:35:32.000 That's silly rounding.

01:35:34.000 She should call it 238. The Moab 238 is what it should be called. 0.85

01:35:38.000 Jesus, Candace! 0.98

01:35:39.000 Hey, it's her race. 0.94

01:35:40.000 Do you hate numbers?

01:35:41.000 It's her race. 0.99

01:35:42.000 There it is.

01:35:43.000 Arctic...

01:35:43.000 What?

01:35:44.000 Antarctic Ice Marathon?

01:35:45.000 No.

01:35:45.000 Jesus Christ!

01:35:46.000 First of all, it's only 100k.

01:35:48.000 Cam could do that on his hands.

01:35:49.000 Yeah, 62 miles.

01:35:53.000 Yeah, I know.

01:35:54.000 That'd be fun.

01:35:55.000 Yeah, I guess.

01:35:56.000 Yeah.

01:35:57.000 Seems stupid.

01:35:58.000 Yeah.

01:36:00.000 Because you don't see anything but white, at least Moab. 0.97

01:36:02.000 You're looking at epic landscape.

01:36:04.000 It's a challenge, though.

01:36:05.000 You know, so it's all about a new challenge.

01:36:09.000 Now, how many people enter into Moab or Bigfoot 200?

01:36:13.000 How many people?

01:36:15.000 This year, when I did it last year, there was 74. I think this year there was over 100. And how many people finish?

01:36:24.000 When I did it, 40-some finished.

01:36:26.000 That's pretty impressive.

01:36:27.000 Yeah, most of the people, I mean, if you sign up for 200, it's not like you're doing that on a whim.

01:36:31.000 Right.

01:36:32.000 I mean, you're prepared.

01:36:32.000 But didn't you do a 100-mile on a whim recently?

01:36:35.000 Yeah.

01:36:35.000 God, that was terrible.

01:36:36.000 Yeah.

01:36:37.000 But just the idea that you could do a 100-mile race on a whim.

01:36:40.000 It was the most painful pain.

01:36:43.000 Painful pain?

01:36:44.000 It was the most painful pain I've ever felt.

01:36:46.000 Is that why you started going to a marathon a day afterwards?

01:36:50.000 Yeah, I mean, I just knew that was Elijah Bristow 24-hour run, and that was in June.

01:36:55.000 And I'm like, God, I'm behind on my schedule, on my training.

01:36:58.000 I got to grind out a big one.

01:37:01.000 So I'm like, I'm going to do it.

01:37:02.000 So you decided to grind out a big one just to boost your training, just to get you over the hump?

01:37:07.000 And beat myself up.

01:37:08.000 How does that benefit you?

01:37:11.000 Just mentally?

01:37:12.000 Or does it do it physically as well?

01:37:13.000 Don't ask me questions like that.

01:37:15.000 It probably doesn't.

01:37:16.000 But what were you thinking in the time?

01:37:18.000 Were you thinking this will get me over the hump and it'll get me in shape?

01:37:22.000 Or were you just like, I'm just going to do it?

01:37:24.000 Yeah, during that race I was turning into...

01:37:27.000 Remember I said most people are weak pussies?

01:37:29.000 You became a weak pussy? 1.00

01:37:30.000 Definitely.

01:37:31.000 And so I was in that race and feeling miserable.

01:37:37.000 So I was like, well...

01:37:40.000 Okay, maybe I'll quit at 30 miles.

01:37:42.000 30 miles is still a good run.

01:37:43.000 I hadn't run 30 miles by June, so I'm like, okay, I'm just going to say this is just a training day.

01:37:50.000 Tomorrow I'll go home, rest up, and maybe I'll do another long run, and that'll be good back-to-back.

01:37:55.000 Because that's what you need for the 200-mile races is most of your running is you're beat to shit.

01:38:03.000 So, I mean, you've got to be able to push through.

01:38:05.000 So the back-to-back training days are key.

01:38:08.000 So at 30 miles, I was about at 6 hours.

01:38:11.000 And I'm like, God, maybe I feel awful, but maybe I'll quit at 50. So I got to 50 miles and I'm like, God, okay, maybe I'll run 12 hours.

01:38:25.000 So at 12 hours, I was at 61 miles.

01:38:28.000 And it was at 9 at night.

01:38:30.000 The race starts at 9 in the morning.

01:38:31.000 9 at night, I was at 61 miles.

01:38:34.000 I'm feeling awful, but I'm like, oh my God, I'm going to be such a pussy if I quit.

01:38:40.000 Not because there's anything wrong with running a 12-hour race and getting 61 miles.

01:38:45.000 That's awesome.

01:38:46.000 That's hard.

01:38:48.000 Super hard.

01:38:49.000 But for me, my goal was 24 hours.

01:38:51.000 I signed up for the 24-hour race.

01:38:53.000 So 12 hours isn't 24. So I'm like, well...

01:38:58.000 I got 12 hours to get 39 miles.

01:39:01.000 I just did 61 miles in 12 hours.

01:39:04.000 So I could just milk it out and still get my 100, which was my goal.

01:39:09.000 24 hours, 100 miles.

01:39:10.000 So I thought, well, I got 12 hours to get 39 miles.

01:39:14.000 And it was the worst 12 hours of my life.

01:39:18.000 And I barely got it.

01:39:20.000 I mean, it was...

01:39:21.000 So I did 61 in 12, and then it took me...

01:39:25.000 Took me 12 to get to 39, but I got 100 miles done, and it was, you know, wasn't trained up, wasn't ready, but had all these reasons, and I was running, thinking of all these excuses I could say, and I could say that I cramped up, and, you know, this is a good example of why you shouldn't What not,

01:39:45.000 you know, push your body past his limit, and I could just get all these kudos for being smart, and everybody would just say, it's okay, you did great.

01:39:53.000 But I would know.

01:39:55.000 I would know that I pussed out.

01:39:57.000 So, I kept going.

01:39:58.000 And didn't you run 13 miles the next day?

01:40:00.000 Yeah.

01:40:03.000 Because you have to.

01:40:05.000 So my whole thing was...

01:40:07.000 Look at this.

01:40:08.000 Going 200 mile distance in an ultramarathon may be healthier than stopping at 100. Holy shit.

01:40:13.000 How does that make sense?

01:40:14.000 Scroll up.

01:40:15.000 The pacing is different for the people they studied that were going just 100. They were going slower, which led to lots of different...

01:40:24.000 Interesting.

01:40:25.000 I wish I could do that.

01:40:26.000 The reason 200-milers aren't as fatigued is the 100-mile group was due to pacing.

01:40:32.000 The Tour des Gants, how do you say that?

01:40:34.000 G-E-A-N-T-S. Tour des Gants.

01:40:39.000 Runners averaged 3.4 miles per hour during the course, while the 100-mile runners took a faster 4.5 miles per hour pace.

01:40:47.000 Rich Roll was saying that, was that when he runs ultra-marathons, like when he was training, that one of the keys was never get his heart rate over 140 beats per minute.

01:40:56.000 Yeah.

01:40:57.000 See, I wish I was smart.

01:40:59.000 Because if I was smart, I wouldn't go out.

01:41:01.000 Because like with Bigfoot, I'm like, I'm going to break the course record.

01:41:04.000 Right.

01:41:04.000 So I was killing it.

01:41:06.000 I was ahead by hours.

01:41:09.000 Really?

01:41:09.000 Yeah.

01:41:10.000 Hours.

01:41:10.000 But you fucked up at that one place where you didn't have any water, right?

01:41:13.000 Right.

01:41:13.000 So, died.

01:41:14.000 So if I could go out and be smart, that's what I'm going to try to do.

01:41:19.000 Do you think you can win this MOAB? I don't know.

01:41:22.000 No, I doubt it.

01:41:22.000 Come on, pussy.

01:41:23.000 I know.

01:41:24.000 Think you can win?

01:41:25.000 I mean, and it's...

01:41:28.000 Why can't you?

01:41:31.000 Well, there's freaks out there.

01:41:33.000 What, like Cameron Haynes?

01:41:36.000 No.

01:41:36.000 You don't think you're a freak?

01:41:38.000 No.

01:41:38.000 Jesus Christ.

01:41:39.000 No, I don't.

01:41:40.000 I just think I can push...

01:41:41.000 I think I'm good at pain management.

01:41:43.000 Ah.

01:41:43.000 Or ignoring pain.

01:41:45.000 But...

01:41:46.000 I had a lot of confidence.

01:41:48.000 When I was doing a marathon a day, my confidence was...

01:41:51.000 I've never been able to do that.

01:41:53.000 I mean, I could have done it, I just never did it, you know, because I just...

01:41:57.000 But isn't seasons basically over now for you, except for doing a little blacktail hunting in Oregon?

01:42:03.000 Yeah.

01:42:03.000 So when will you ramp back up to a marathon a day?

01:42:07.000 Well, now it's a time of, should I do it, or should I just think my training's in the bank and manage till the race?

01:42:16.000 Because now I could hammer too hard and go into the race fatigued.

01:42:20.000 What day is the race?

01:42:22.000 I think it's the 13th of October.

01:42:23.000 So what is that?

01:42:24.000 Four weeks?

01:42:25.000 Three weeks?

01:42:26.000 What's today?

01:42:26.000 Three.

01:42:27.000 Three weeks?

01:42:29.000 22nd.

01:42:29.000 So how will you know what's the right way to do it and what's the wrong way to do it?

01:42:35.000 I don't know.

01:42:35.000 How would you know?

01:42:36.000 I don't know.

01:42:37.000 I wouldn't know.

01:42:38.000 Nobody knows.

01:42:39.000 But isn't there ways where people tell whether or not they're overtrained, they monitor heart rate?

01:42:44.000 Here's what people say.

01:42:45.000 If you run a marathon, you should not run another one for six months.

01:42:52.000 So, should I listen to them?

01:42:56.000 So yeah, because it's so hard on your body, and so on and so forth.

01:43:01.000 So when you built up to a marathon a day, how long did it take you to build up to that after the 100-mile race, which was in June?

01:43:09.000 Is that what you said?

01:43:09.000 June, yeah.

01:43:10.000 So that's not a lot of time.

01:43:11.000 July, August, we're in September.

01:43:13.000 So you're talking like during July and August, you managed to build yourself up to a marathon a day.

01:43:17.000 Yeah, and Under Armour had an ultra at Mount Bachelor in July, and And I didn't, like, July 20-something, so it was about a month after the 24-hour race, and I didn't take a day, I think I took one day off.

01:43:33.000 So I ran every day from the 24-hour, trying to beat my body up, and then I went into that Ultra, and I ran that.

01:43:43.000 I don't know.

01:43:43.000 I took the wrong course for a couple miles, so I think I got seven.

01:43:49.000 I don't know what I got.

01:43:50.000 But anyway...

01:43:51.000 That was 100?

01:43:53.000 No, that was a 50k.

01:43:54.000 So that was 31 miles.

01:43:57.000 And then the next day I ran the South Sister, which is...

01:44:04.000 It was 16 miles with 5,000 feet of gain so I got really good mountain back-to-back days there with no break after the 24 hour and then Went, then took a little break, I think a day, and then started trying to get really at least a half marathon a day.

01:44:23.000 But then I went on a run, I think of nine days where I did a marathon every day.

01:44:28.000 And so at that time, if you had asked if I had a chance to win Moab, I would have said, yeah.

01:44:34.000 Because my confidence was amazing.

01:44:36.000 Because I've never been able to do that.

01:44:38.000 And maybe I'm not being realistic about it because there could be, you know, Jim Walmsy show up who knows what he could run it in.

01:44:46.000 So maybe it's not realistic, but at that time I had confidence.

01:44:51.000 Now, after not running that much and being gone hunting, I don't know.

01:44:55.000 So when will you decide how you're going to train?

01:45:00.000 Are you going to start running tomorrow when you get back home?

01:45:02.000 Yeah, I'll do a marathon tomorrow.

01:45:04.000 And then once you do a marathon tomorrow...

01:45:06.000 I'll see how I feel.

01:45:07.000 But my body feels awesome right now.

01:45:10.000 Amazing.

01:45:10.000 Rested up.

01:45:11.000 Oh, God.

01:45:12.000 I feel as good as I've felt in a long time right now.

01:45:15.000 Well, that was the idea, though, right?

01:45:17.000 Yeah.

01:45:17.000 That you were going to train super hard, beat yourself up, and then take a few weeks off for hunting, and then you would recover and recuperate.

01:45:23.000 Yep.

01:45:24.000 Looked good on paper.

01:45:25.000 Maybe when you run that marathon tomorrow, you're going to feel like a fucking animal.

01:45:30.000 Eating even better than before.

01:45:32.000 Maybe I won't.

01:45:33.000 Invigorated?

01:45:34.000 Well, come on.

01:45:35.000 What's with the negative self-doubt talk?

01:45:37.000 No, it's not just how it is sometimes.

01:45:41.000 Do you think there's any advantage to your diet that you eat all this wild game?

01:45:46.000 Yeah.

01:45:47.000 There's got to be, like, some sort of nutritional advantage.

01:45:50.000 I don't have to back it up with anything, do I? No, you don't have to say science.

01:45:53.000 But I think it's obvious.

01:45:57.000 Like, I was cutting up some meat, and my wife was looking at it.

01:46:01.000 She goes, it almost looks like organ meat.

01:46:03.000 Yeah, because it's so rich.

01:46:05.000 I mean, it's dark.

01:46:06.000 Yeah.

01:46:06.000 It's dark and rich.

01:46:09.000 It's like if...

01:46:12.000 If you're not used to eating that type of meat, it can affect your stomach because it's rich protein.

01:46:18.000 Yeah.

01:46:19.000 And so it's definitely more...

01:46:23.000 I don't want...

01:46:24.000 It's more nutrient dense.

01:46:26.000 I want to say potent almost than like a steak you'd buy at a store.

01:46:30.000 Right.

01:46:30.000 Mike Dolce always likes to use that word, nutrient dense.

01:46:32.000 I love it.

01:46:33.000 Sounds good.

01:46:33.000 Sounds super smart.

01:46:35.000 But if you look at the protein per ounce...

01:46:40.000 There's a chart, Jamie, that they compare beef, chicken, salmon, and elk and moose, and it's off the charts.

01:46:48.000 It's like double.

01:46:49.000 So you could get the same amount of protein that you get in a 16-ounce steak, I think, in like an 8-ounce piece of elk.

01:46:56.000 So you need less, and it's more potent, and it just looks different.

01:47:01.000 I've shown it to friends that have never eaten elk before, and they're like, Jesus.

01:47:06.000 Because it's just red.

01:47:08.000 It's just dense.

01:47:10.000 You're eating a super athlete.

01:47:12.000 That's what it's like.

01:47:14.000 No, and that's what I feel like.

01:47:15.000 I feel like when I'm eating, you know, those elk are amazing animals, powerful, strong, endurance, you know, everything I would like to be as far as of taking on anything that happens.

01:47:31.000 And, you know, when you eat it, how could you not have confidence or feel better?

01:47:36.000 I just think it's the best food for you.

01:47:37.000 I really do.

01:47:38.000 I mean, I feel fucking fantastic.

01:47:40.000 I feel better now at 50 than I've ever felt, like, probably in my life.

01:47:44.000 I feel better at 50 than I did at 40. Really?

01:47:46.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:47:47.000 Definitely.

01:47:48.000 A lot of it is eating really healthy, you know, really running, managing my sleep.

01:47:55.000 That's a big one.

01:47:56.000 That's one that you don't do very good.

01:47:58.000 You don't really get a lot of sleep, do you?

01:48:00.000 That stupid job.

01:48:03.000 I'm supposed to be at work right now.

01:48:04.000 When are you going to quit that thing?

01:48:05.000 It's Friday, right?

01:48:06.000 But you make more money outside your stupid job than you do on your stupid job.

01:48:10.000 I know.

01:48:12.000 Son, I need to manage you.

01:48:14.000 Yeah.

01:48:15.000 You need to listen to me.

01:48:16.000 Yeah.

01:48:16.000 Every time we talk about this.

01:48:18.000 I know.

01:48:18.000 We do.

01:48:19.000 We talk about it a lot.

01:48:20.000 Well, you're the opposite of me in that regard.

01:48:23.000 Yeah.

01:48:24.000 Because I'm like Captain Cut Ties and burn the bridge and fucking throw kerosene on the house, light it on fire, drive away.

01:48:31.000 Woo! 0.99

01:48:32.000 Yeah, and you're not I know opposite.

01:48:35.000 Yeah, I'm You know and part of it is I've never like I said I never felt special so I always feel like I should appreciate having a good job and I I'm loyal to to where I work and so I feel like all this Opportunity and these things that I do and being on you know your show and all that could go away tomorrow And then if I quit the job,

01:48:59.000 I'd be like, oh my god.

01:49:00.000 I knew it I'm a freaking loser and I quit it the best job.

01:49:03.000 I've ever had in my entire life That's an interesting way of looking at it, but yeah It's Part of your strength is the fact that you can endure, right?

01:49:15.000 And so I think you're enduring this job.

01:49:18.000 Yeah.

01:49:19.000 Maybe.

01:49:20.000 I like being miserable.

01:49:21.000 Yeah.

01:49:21.000 But I'm not...

01:49:22.000 Because I like the people I work with.

01:49:23.000 Yeah.

01:49:24.000 I know you do.

01:49:24.000 But you would like it more if you didn't have to be there.

01:49:27.000 Yeah.

01:49:27.000 I would like just to check in with them every once in a while.

01:49:30.000 Hey, how's everybody?

01:49:31.000 Yeah.

01:49:31.000 How's that place where I used to work for my whole life?

01:49:34.000 Yeah.

01:49:35.000 Yeah.

01:49:36.000 I mean, so I miss the people when I'm not there.

01:49:40.000 I miss problem solving and helping people achieve goals.

01:49:47.000 So I like being there for that.

01:49:49.000 I've been thinking about this a lot, and I've been trying to figure out what a solution is.

01:49:53.000 But, you know, maybe we could talk to Hoyt about this, or some, you know, some company about this, maybe even Under Armour.

01:50:02.000 But the idea of putting together, like, almost like camps where people could learn archery, And maybe you could give seminars.

01:50:13.000 Guys like Dudley can show some archery techniques.

01:50:15.000 Guys like Remy Warren can talk about things.

01:50:17.000 And putting together these almost like introductory camps.

01:50:22.000 Yeah.

01:50:22.000 Because a lot of people don't know where to start.

01:50:24.000 They don't know where to start.

01:50:24.000 I didn't know where to start.

01:50:25.000 If it wasn't for Steve Rinella, I would have never got started in hunting.

01:50:28.000 If it wasn't for you, I would have never got started bow hunting.

01:50:31.000 It's just sometimes you need someone.

01:50:33.000 Yeah.

01:50:34.000 And there's not a lot of resources out there, but there's a lot of people that are listening.

01:50:37.000 There's a lot of people that they're hearing all this, and they're like, wow, this sounds crazy.

01:50:40.000 I want to get involved in this.

01:50:41.000 And again, a lot of what we're talking about, like I was talking about Brian Barney's podcast, he's hunting public land, over-the-counter tags in Montana.

01:50:50.000 You could go get them.

01:50:52.000 They don't cost that much.

01:50:53.000 You pay your license fee, you buy a tag, and you can go out into the wilderness.

01:50:58.000 You just need a tent and a backpack and a bow and arrow and some guts.

01:51:02.000 And just go out there and you could handle it.

01:51:04.000 There's a lot of opportunity like that.

01:51:07.000 And this country is amazing for that.

01:51:08.000 It's one of the few countries in the world where we have literally millions of acres of public land that are all yours and mine.

01:51:14.000 I mean, I was wearing that backcountry hunters and anglers t-shirt yesterday that says public landowner.

01:51:19.000 We're all public landowners.

01:51:22.000 And it's a very, very important thing to support.

01:51:25.000 And it's an amazing resource.

01:51:28.000 So yeah, where we're at in Utah is super rare and not a lot of people get to go there, but guess what?

01:51:33.000 You can go to Idaho.

01:51:34.000 You can go into the backcountry in Idaho and get amazing public land hunting.

01:51:40.000 If you're willing to hike in and go deep, And you go to Google Earth and you could go and look at all these basins and mountains and you could go online and ask people.

01:51:51.000 There's ways to move around.

01:51:53.000 There's ways to do this.

01:51:54.000 But getting started is insanely difficult.

01:51:57.000 And I've been thinking about this.

01:52:00.000 Maybe we could do something like you know how they have that total archery challenge that they did in Utah over there I was there is awesome amazing right so maybe there's like a Gathering that we could put together like maybe once a year maybe during the offseason Just once a year where people can get maybe fitted for a bow You sign up for this in advance,

01:52:21.000 and maybe it's a couple-day thing, like maybe one or two days, where you go through an introductory course of archery, understanding it, and then maybe someone can talk about shot placement, and maybe someone else, like someone who does a lot of soul hunting,

01:52:37.000 like Remy, or maybe even Adam, can talk about, like, woodsmanship and things that you can learn, and here's some books you can read, like your book, Backcountry.

01:52:46.000 What is your book?

01:52:48.000 Backcountry bowhunting.

01:52:49.000 And that's still in print, right?

01:52:51.000 You can still buy that.

01:52:51.000 Is it on Amazon?

01:52:52.000 No, it's on CameronHaines.com.

01:52:54.000 Oh, powerful shout out to CameronHaines.com.

01:52:57.000 But to have those kind of things set out, like, hey, this is something you can do.

01:53:03.000 This is something you can read.

01:53:05.000 This is something you can listen to.

01:53:06.000 It'd be awesome.

01:53:07.000 I mean, we've done gatherings, you know, Wayne at the Bow Rack, we used to do this Bowhunters, I can't remember what we used to call it, but six or seven hundred people would show up at the Bow Rack in the parking lot, big tent, and we'd do things.

01:53:20.000 We could do it out where I practice out at his property, you know, and get together and have people in, and it would just be, it would be amazing.

01:53:29.000 Why don't we do that?

01:53:30.000 The reason I know...

01:53:32.000 That there's so much interest in Pat.

01:53:34.000 My book, Backcountry Bullhunting, I wrote in 2006. Cases of that go out every day.

01:53:41.000 I mean, before I left on this hunt, I sat at my kitchen table and signed books for cases of books because those are all going to be gone when I get home.

01:53:50.000 Do you have a time machine?

01:53:52.000 A time machine?

01:53:54.000 Why?

01:53:55.000 Where do you get the time?

01:53:56.000 I don't understand how the fuck you have time to run a marathon and then sign books and then practice bow hunting and then do 100 reps of fucking this and then hang out with your family and then eat dinner and go to sleep and then work a full-time job and then...

01:54:11.000 He gets tough.

01:54:12.000 But that's how I know that there's so much interest in that, is that book is, you know, I think sold almost 40,000 of them.

01:54:22.000 And people have that dream.

01:54:24.000 I have two.

01:54:25.000 You have two copies.

01:54:26.000 Oh, nice.

01:54:28.000 And I just, a good example of people living that dream is a guy at work, two guys at my work.

01:54:38.000 They wanted to do the backcountry thing.

01:54:40.000 So we got maps in Wyoming.

01:54:43.000 I said, here's, because Roy went there one time.

01:54:46.000 I've killed a couple bulls in the backcountry there, public land.

01:54:49.000 It's a pretty easy tag to draw.

01:54:51.000 You can get, you put in for the premium tag.

01:54:55.000 It costs a little more to put in, but the odds of getting it are, you can get it, I got it almost every year a couple times.

01:55:02.000 And then, or a year in between.

01:55:04.000 And so they put in for the tag.

01:55:06.000 They got the tag.

01:55:07.000 I sat down with them, said, showed them the drainages, showed them I'd hunt here, I'd camp here, I'd do this.

01:55:13.000 And they went in there, killed a bull.

01:55:16.000 I mean, public land, never been there before.

01:55:20.000 Um...

01:55:21.000 Had a dream of doing it, made it happen.

01:55:23.000 So, it happens.

01:55:25.000 Guys do it every year.

01:55:26.000 It can be done.

01:55:27.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:55:28.000 You can go from the beginning, from no knowledge of archery, to eventually doing it.

01:55:32.000 Yep, you can.

01:55:33.000 Andy Stump's done it.

01:55:33.000 I know, I know.

01:55:34.000 He texted me today.

01:55:35.000 Andy's a fucking animal.

01:55:36.000 Yeah, I love it.

01:55:38.000 Andy's awesome.

01:55:38.000 And he got obsessed with bow hunting, from listening to us talk about it, from listening to us talk about archery.

01:55:43.000 Yeah.

01:55:44.000 He got a hoit, he got set up, Dudley gave him some coaching.

01:55:47.000 I know you hung out with him.

01:55:49.000 Yeah.

01:55:49.000 And he went hunting with Dudley, and he got a giant fucking black bear.

01:55:53.000 Two of them.

01:55:54.000 He got a bear.

01:55:55.000 He killed, I think, a couple of deer.

01:55:57.000 Yeah.

01:55:59.000 Excuse me.

01:56:00.000 And then he he went on a bad run.

01:56:04.000 He had a frustrating elk hunt.

01:56:06.000 Something like five shots or but he did a podcast I guess about it today.

01:56:10.000 He told me that today's podcast I think is about failure and about bow hunting and about failure and Cleared Hot.

01:56:18.000 This is the name of his podcast.

01:56:19.000 Yeah, Cleared Hot.

01:56:20.000 But Man, I love that guy.

01:56:22.000 I told him on the way home I was gonna listen to his podcast today.

01:56:25.000 He said he he talked about He mentions me or something like that.

01:56:29.000 Andy, for people who don't know, he's been on the podcast before, and he's a retired Navy SEAL who has the world record in the distance of one of those fucking crazy flying squirrel suits.

01:56:42.000 He's a maniac.

01:56:43.000 He's a real maniac.

01:56:45.000 And he's become completely obsessed with bowhunting.

01:56:47.000 In fact, moved to Montana.

01:56:49.000 Yeah.

01:56:50.000 That's how savage that guy is.

01:56:51.000 He's like, fuck this, I'm out of California.

01:56:53.000 Moves his family from San Diego to Montana, and he's doing, you know, over-the-counter.

01:56:58.000 Montana's one of the best places in the world where you can get over-the-counter tags for elk hunting.

01:57:04.000 Yeah.

01:57:04.000 And just the wilderness there.

01:57:05.000 Like, I told you, when I went there last summer with my family, we had to stop the car, and I brought binos, and I was giving them to my kids.

01:57:14.000 I'm like, look, look, look, look, look.

01:57:15.000 There's a hundred elk out here in this field.

01:57:18.000 And we were just sitting there staring for like, shit.

01:57:20.000 We pulled over for like a half an hour.

01:57:21.000 Yeah.

01:57:22.000 Just looking out the window at a hundred elk just hanging out on this field.

01:57:25.000 It was amazing.

01:57:26.000 Yeah.

01:57:27.000 Montana's awesome.

01:57:28.000 No, no.

01:57:29.000 And Andy, wasn't he a seal for 17 years?

01:57:31.000 Yeah.

01:57:32.000 I mean, so just...

01:57:32.000 Savage.

01:57:33.000 Stud.

01:57:34.000 Just a great guy, too.

01:57:36.000 Just got a great mind for success.

01:57:40.000 And this is why he became obsessed with bowhunting as well.

01:57:43.000 It's like he recognized the things that we were talking about, and he decided to start it, to start the process and see what it was like, and then immediately became obsessed.

01:57:53.000 Yeah.

01:57:53.000 And then, as we talked about also...

01:57:57.000 I mean, it's tough.

01:57:58.000 Yeah, he had a hard time.

01:57:59.000 Yeah, I mean, he had some good success when Dudley was coaching him.

01:58:02.000 Is that his place there?

01:58:04.000 Look at that.

01:58:05.000 Many people have asked why we moved to Montana.

01:58:07.000 Any other questions?

01:58:08.000 The only regret is not making the move sooner.

01:58:10.000 God, look at that view.

01:58:12.000 I know.

01:58:12.000 That's insane.

01:58:13.000 He's got his truck parked there and just this amazing, amazing view.

01:58:17.000 He said something.

01:58:18.000 I think I saw a comment.

01:58:19.000 Is that a lake?

01:58:20.000 Yeah, it looks like it.

01:58:21.000 Is that his yard?

01:58:22.000 I don't know.

01:58:23.000 Fucking A, man.

01:58:24.000 Yeah.

01:58:25.000 That's amazing.

01:58:26.000 I think he said something about...

01:58:27.000 Maybe it was on that cleared hot, that other post there, the second post.

01:58:31.000 Yeah.

01:58:32.000 About that maybe on his last shot he would have been better off throwing his bow.

01:58:36.000 One week.

01:58:38.000 Two in one week.

01:58:40.000 After talking about failure in episode 13, I had one of the best weeks I've ever had.

01:58:45.000 I have in a long time.

01:58:46.000 My mind kept drifting back to motivation and purpose, which in my opinion is the opposite side of the coin that failure sits on.

01:58:54.000 Hopefully something in it clicks for you.

01:59:00.000 Of Cleared Hottest Podcast, which is an excellent podcast.

01:59:03.000 Just go and check that shit out.

01:59:05.000 He's just good at verbalizing.

01:59:08.000 Yeah.

01:59:08.000 I mean, it's just so easy to listen to.

01:59:11.000 He's a very smart dude.

01:59:12.000 So that's him out there with his bow.

01:59:14.000 Yeah.

01:59:14.000 And he says, what did he say about humble pie?

01:59:18.000 Yeah.

01:59:18.000 That's bow hunting right there.

01:59:20.000 Well, it's fucking hard, man.

01:59:22.000 Anytime you think you're good.

01:59:24.000 Yeah.

01:59:25.000 I mean, something happens and you just feel like, I don't know.

01:59:29.000 Well, you know, Dudley's talked about that.

01:59:31.000 Dudley, who is a guy who literally gets flown out to Europe to coach international teams.

01:59:38.000 He's coached Olympic teams.

01:59:40.000 Yeah.

01:59:40.000 He was talking about, like, one time he went with an outfitter, and he just hadn't been practicing enough, he felt like he was fine, and he's just fucking missing.

01:59:49.000 Yeah.

01:59:49.000 And he's like, what is wrong?

01:59:50.000 And he's like, he took a whole day, and he goes, look, tomorrow we're not going out.

01:59:54.000 And he goes, I'm just gonna sit here, and I'm gonna put up a fucking block target, And I'm going to practice.

01:59:59.000 I'm going to get my mind right.

02:00:00.000 Get back in the groove.

02:00:01.000 And he got back on track and then the next day killed.

02:00:04.000 Really?

02:00:04.000 Yeah, the next day he was shooting perfect.

02:00:05.000 But it's like he needed to have that wake-up call that even though he's John fucking Dudley, world-class professional archer, if you don't practice, it doesn't matter.

02:00:16.000 Arrow doesn't care. 0.97

02:00:17.000 The animals don't care if you think you're a bad motherfucker. 0.99

02:00:21.000 It doesn't care.

02:00:21.000 You have to have 100% dedication, 100% focus, all the time.

02:00:26.000 And that was one thing that I really loved about this week.

02:00:29.000 Is that even though, like, there was times that it was kind of, it was exhausting for sure.

02:00:35.000 And there was times it can be kind of frustrating when you're on an animal.

02:00:38.000 Like, I didn't feel frustrated like I wanted to quit.

02:00:42.000 Right.

02:00:43.000 I felt frustrated like I wanted to press on and I wanted to get successful.

02:00:47.000 And being friends with guys like you, guys like Remy, Adam Greentree, knowing these people that have done all this and gone through all this already.

02:00:58.000 And also for people that are listening, having podcasts where people like you or like Remy or Steve Rinella can talk about the struggle.

02:01:11.000 Yeah.

02:01:11.000 It's so important.

02:01:12.000 Right, because what gets attention is the success.

02:01:16.000 Yeah, like when you watch a TV show, what do you see?

02:01:18.000 Guys shooting animals.

02:01:19.000 Seems so easy.

02:01:20.000 Yeah, yeah, it does, because you get a TV show's 21 minutes, you got some sponsors you got to mention, you get a few minutes of hunting, and oh, here they killed something.

02:01:29.000 That's one of the things that I'm worried about with these films, because these films are brilliant.

02:01:33.000 Like your film, that Time film that Under Armour made, they're brilliant, but...

02:01:38.000 Man, it just seems like everything just kind of happened in that.

02:01:41.000 Like, all of a sudden, there's the elk.

02:01:42.000 You passed up.

02:01:43.000 You're at full drop.

02:01:44.000 Nah, not that one.

02:01:44.000 Too young.

02:01:45.000 And then there's a perfect one.

02:01:46.000 Boom! 0.99

02:01:46.000 Perfect shot. 0.99

02:01:47.000 He's down in seconds.

02:01:49.000 Everybody's happy.

02:01:50.000 But that's not the thing.

02:01:52.000 The thing is, the hours and hours and hours of hiking and the disappointment.

02:01:58.000 The fucking wind got us.

02:02:00.000 God damn it.

02:02:01.000 Like, we were in on this bull, and the wind shifted, and the cows go...

02:02:05.000 The cows bark.

02:02:06.000 For people who don't know, cow elk, when they hear things or smell things or see things and they know something's wrong, they go...

02:02:14.000 And it reverberates through the woods and everybody knows what that sound is.

02:02:20.000 It sucks a fat dick. 0.97

02:02:22.000 When just one cow sees something or smells something...

02:02:27.000 Barks. 0.97

02:02:28.000 Everybody's like, uh-oh.

02:02:29.000 I mean, that was it.

02:02:30.000 It's over.

02:02:31.000 There was a time where Jameson and Colton and I, before I killed that bull, we were standing there dead still for five minutes while cows were just staring at us.

02:02:42.000 Just staring.

02:02:43.000 And you're not moving.

02:02:44.000 Your feet are going numb.

02:02:46.000 Your knee hurts because you're kind of leaning on the side of a hill.

02:02:49.000 And you can't move.

02:02:51.000 You just got to stay.

02:02:52.000 And they're just looking right at you.

02:02:53.000 Because for them...

02:02:55.000 Look, for me, it's a pursuit.

02:02:56.000 It's a discipline.

02:02:57.000 I don't want to say fun.

02:02:59.000 It's exhilarating and intense.

02:03:01.000 It's amazing.

02:03:02.000 I'm attracted to it.

02:03:03.000 For them, it's life and death.

02:03:05.000 And they don't have a language.

02:03:07.000 They don't have a brain that processes all these variables.

02:03:10.000 They just know that's fucking danger.

02:03:13.000 There might be danger.

02:03:14.000 Is that something that wants to eat me?

02:03:16.000 They know they're delicious.

02:03:17.000 They must.

02:03:19.000 They must.

02:03:20.000 Yeah.

02:03:22.000 One thing...

02:03:24.000 You know, on that hunt, we had basically a lifetime worth of experience for a lot of guys in a week, you know, up there.

02:03:32.000 And because the timing was perfect, there's a few reasons why it was a perfect storm up there.

02:03:39.000 The weather was a storm, obviously.

02:03:41.000 Got a lot of snow.

02:03:42.000 It was awesome.

02:03:42.000 Yeah, one day we got hammered with snow.

02:03:45.000 But the moon phase...

02:03:47.000 The moon was basically non-existent the last few days.

02:03:51.000 And that's a big thing.

02:03:52.000 When the moon's full, animals are out at night feeding.

02:03:55.000 Most of their feeding is done at night and a little bit during the day.

02:04:00.000 This week, the moon phase was down.

02:04:03.000 So they were feeding mostly out during the day.

02:04:06.000 So that was big.

02:04:06.000 The weather was good.

02:04:07.000 And then the time of year.

02:04:08.000 So the bulls were running.

02:04:10.000 But I just remember one specific, and I can't wait to show this on the film, but...

02:04:16.000 We were, there's a bull bugling, we heard it up there in the Quakies, and he was going crazy.

02:04:22.000 We wanted to try to get a good look at him.

02:04:24.000 So we're standing there, and Mark Womack, who Sub-7's his company, he was filming me.

02:04:31.000 And he looks over and he says, Cam, there's a bull bedded right there.

02:04:34.000 And it was about, I don't know, a little over 100 yards away.

02:04:37.000 There was a 6x6 bedded, and with the wind the way it was, I'm like, well, I'm going to go see how close I can get to him.

02:04:45.000 So, I snuck up there and got within 10 feet of this 6x6 bull.

02:04:50.000 And I got so close.

02:04:52.000 There was a tree blocking his eye where normally he'd be able to see me, but where he bedded, the tree was blocking that.

02:05:01.000 So, I used that tree...

02:05:03.000 And use the cover of the wind to get in close.

02:05:07.000 And that's on, like you said, a wild animal that only cares about staying alive, essentially, and for the bull breeding.

02:05:15.000 But that was an experience.

02:05:18.000 I got so close that I was like, okay, he's going to know I'm here eventually.

02:05:22.000 How close am I going to get?

02:05:24.000 What's he going to do?

02:05:25.000 Because they're aggressive this time of year.

02:05:28.000 Testosterone is skyrocketing because they're breathing, they're fighting, they're doing all this thing.

02:05:32.000 What's he going to do when he sees me this close?

02:05:34.000 So I didn't really know for sure, but I felt that wind shift a little bit.

02:05:38.000 And I felt it on the back of my neck.

02:05:40.000 So I came to Full Draw.

02:05:42.000 He's 10 feet away.

02:05:43.000 And he stands up.

02:05:44.000 And he's like, right then, I'm standing, playing as day once he stood up.

02:05:50.000 And we've got an image I'll post up here in a second of me at Full Draw at 10 feet on this big bull out.

02:05:56.000 It's incredible.

02:05:56.000 But the footage is amazing.

02:05:58.000 It's going to be cool to show.

02:05:59.000 No, the footage is going to be amazing.

02:06:01.000 And we also got footage of a bull that we couldn't shoot because even though he was a huge bull, he was a younger bull.

02:06:07.000 He was probably five or six years old.

02:06:09.000 And it was in the snow.

02:06:11.000 And it was 40 yards away, broadside, screaming his lungs out.

02:06:15.000 And we're just standing there going, wow.

02:06:17.000 This is crazy.

02:06:18.000 He's just standing there on top of the mountain going, where's my bitches? 1.00

02:06:22.000 Yeah.

02:06:26.000 And to most people, like when you're on public land, like when I used to hunt, you know, the Eagle Cap Wilderness, That bull's dead.

02:06:34.000 Oh yeah, for sure.

02:06:36.000 I'm going to try to kill that bull. 0.87

02:06:38.000 There's all sorts of things that can happen when you're shooting an arrow.

02:06:41.000 But the reason why where we're hunting is so good is because it's so well managed.

02:06:46.000 Because normally, so as five or six years old, that's a hell of a trophy for anybody on public land.

02:06:53.000 But when everybody could come together and say, okay guys, here's what we're going to do.

02:06:56.000 We're only going to kill the eight to ten year old bulls. 0.99

02:07:00.000 You let those bulls grow and then you get an amazing, That's one reason why Arizona is so good.

02:07:07.000 They manage it for trophy animals.

02:07:11.000 Some places in New Mexico.

02:07:12.000 New Mexico is good.

02:07:14.000 There's a place in Oregon, it's the Winnahaw, it's where I put in for, and it's public land, but it's a really hard tag to draw.

02:07:22.000 I've been putting in for it for 17 years now.

02:07:24.000 But they only give, they were giving 10, I think now they give 20 tags a year.

02:07:30.000 And there's big bulls there.

02:07:31.000 And it's just because it's managed.

02:07:33.000 So there's a few different places that are managed for older animals.

02:07:36.000 But if you're just going straight up public land, it's really hard to pass up a five or six-year-old bull.

02:07:41.000 Now, how do they make that decision to only give 20 tags?

02:07:43.000 Because it's probably, I would imagine, thousands of people that are trying to draw these tags and only 20 people get an opportunity.

02:07:49.000 How do they make that distinction just by the biologists pick the number of animals?

02:07:54.000 Yep.

02:07:55.000 They just do some sort of a survey, find out how many of their animals there are.

02:07:59.000 And also, some places manage for better genetics and higher potential of what they would call...

02:08:04.000 There's a real problem with that word trophy, because people think, oh, you just want to decorate your wall with an animal's body.

02:08:10.000 No, that's not what it means.

02:08:11.000 Now, are you a trophy hunter, or do you eat the meat?

02:08:13.000 I'm like, both.

02:08:14.000 Yeah, well, the trophy is an intense experience with a mature animal that has a lot of lifetime of surviving.

02:08:26.000 It's a way different animal.

02:08:28.000 When you're around a young bull, they don't know anything.

02:08:30.000 They're like babies.

02:08:32.000 Like a spike?

02:08:34.000 They barely know what's going on.

02:08:35.000 Like, who are you?

02:08:35.000 A spike's been alive for a year and a half.

02:08:37.000 Right.

02:08:38.000 So, that's where the herd protects them.

02:08:40.000 Elk are herd animals.

02:08:42.000 They look out for each other.

02:08:43.000 So, when you have an 8 to 10-year-old bull that has a protection of the herd, but also has been around for 8 to 10 hunting seasons, that's a smart animal.

02:08:55.000 He's seen some shit.

02:08:56.000 He's seen some stuff, and it's a smart animal.

02:08:58.000 So, there's a guy in camp also that has hunted...

02:09:02.000 San Carlos Indian Reservation, and he talked about this big bull there that knew he was being hunted, circled around them, came in from the backside of the hunters to look at them.

02:09:16.000 Because that bull had been around and knew what was going on so much, and so they were able to track him and see what he did, and he went around behind the hunters.

02:09:26.000 These animals, imagine.

02:09:29.000 I mean, this is where they live every day for 8 to 10 years.

02:09:33.000 You see some stuff.

02:09:35.000 You learn where humans as hunters like to go.

02:09:39.000 And also, we are probably a minor threat in comparison to the mountain lions.

02:09:44.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:09:44.000 We were talking about how many cats are on this ranch.

02:09:47.000 Right, there's lions, but...

02:09:49.000 They know humans are danger.

02:09:51.000 I mean, they know that.

02:09:52.000 And like I said, they know...

02:09:55.000 So there's certain places where hunters, regardless of who's there, go to glass, go to call.

02:10:02.000 And those elk know that, okay, I see something there.

02:10:06.000 That's where I've seen a human, whatever they think a human is, before I'm not going there.

02:10:13.000 Right.

02:10:13.000 You know, so it's...

02:10:14.000 Once you get an age on an animal, it gets tough.

02:10:17.000 It gets tough to get them killed.

02:10:19.000 And I would imagine the mountain lion population as high as it is, they have to be on point 24-7 with something that's faster than them.

02:10:28.000 It kills them with its teeth. 0.91

02:10:31.000 Something that can leap up and literally grab a hold of its neck. 0.93

02:10:34.000 Remember we were talking to Johnny in Colorado and he was telling us about the footprints that he found?

02:10:38.000 They found a bunch of cat footprints and then they found a bunch of elk footprints.

02:10:43.000 And then they only found the elk footprints.

02:10:45.000 A couple hundred yards later, they found a dead bull with a giant mountain lion clinging to its neck.

02:10:52.000 Like, that's a hard life when a fucking 150-pound cat can bring down a 1,000-pound bull.

02:10:58.000 Yeah, so the lion was on the bull's back.

02:11:01.000 So that's why it's...

02:11:04.000 Some prints were gone in the snow because he was up on the bull trying to get it killed.

02:11:09.000 The bull was taken off for a couple hundred yards.

02:11:11.000 Finally, the new cat clamped down on probably its windpipe and got it killed.

02:11:16.000 And that's happening outside of season.

02:11:19.000 That's happening every day.

02:11:21.000 Every day.

02:11:22.000 That's not hunting season.

02:11:24.000 That's just real life out there.

02:11:26.000 And bears.

02:11:27.000 Yeah.

02:11:28.000 Yeah, but you started to talk about the trophy hunting aspect and what people, you know, when they have that trophy hunting moniker that has negative connotation.

02:11:40.000 And that's what, we talked about this a little bit last night on the way back from the airport, the grizzly hunting in British Columbia.

02:11:47.000 Yeah.

02:11:49.000 They're stopping that in November.

02:11:51.000 There'll be no more grizzly hunting.

02:11:52.000 They were killing 250 bears a year out of 15,000.

02:11:57.000 So they're basically just managing the population.

02:11:59.000 You know, you have to take a certain amount of animals out given the habitat and the carrying capacity of the land.

02:12:04.000 Especially predators because they don't have predators.

02:12:07.000 Right, right.

02:12:08.000 Because what else is going to kill a grizzly?

02:12:10.000 Right.

02:12:10.000 Nothing.

02:12:11.000 Nothing.

02:12:11.000 And some people say, well, you know, their numbers will drop down on their own.

02:12:16.000 If they eat all the deer and all the moose, you're right.

02:12:19.000 Their numbers will drop down, but it will take decades.

02:12:22.000 Yeah.

02:12:23.000 And in that time, you're going to destroy two different things, right?

02:12:27.000 You're going to destroy the ungulates. 1.00

02:12:29.000 They're going to get devastated.

02:12:31.000 Yeah.

02:12:31.000 And you're going to also destroy the economy that comes with hunting.

02:12:35.000 The economy that comes with hunting those undulates, because they're going to get devastated by the overwhelming population of grizzly bears, and the economy that comes with hunting the grizzly bears.

02:12:44.000 In managing them, what they're going to have to probably do is what they've done with mountain lions in California.

02:12:50.000 What people don't know, because mountain lion hunting is outlawed in California, so what they do is they hire hunters to kill mountain lions.

02:12:56.000 And they've killed...

02:12:57.000 I believe they killed almost 100 last year.

02:13:00.000 I think it was like 97. Most of them, they find pets in their body.

02:13:05.000 They find their primary food source, more than 50%, is dogs.

02:13:08.000 Right.

02:13:09.000 And they're just killing people's dogs. 0.97

02:13:11.000 So the lions are still getting killed.

02:13:13.000 Yeah, but they're just...

02:13:13.000 It's just not hunters doing it.

02:13:14.000 It's government...

02:13:16.000 Basically, they can run dogs with them.

02:13:18.000 They can do all sorts of things to get them killed.

02:13:20.000 But it's the government paying somebody to do it, as opposed to hunters paying for the opportunity to do it, to kill the same amount.

02:13:27.000 So instead of money going to the state, the state's paying money.

02:13:31.000 And it's a lot of money, especially when you're talking about something like grizzly bears.

02:13:34.000 Well, what they're saying up there, and I did some research on it, just because I want to know how this works, because why it's being stopped is just public outcry.

02:13:45.000 And the new government in British Columbia said, in this day and age, you know, the public just can't stomach grizzly trophy hunting.

02:13:54.000 So the public, what the hell does the public know?

02:13:56.000 The public doesn't even, they're not even out there.

02:13:58.000 Well, they have a misconception.

02:14:00.000 And their idea is all based on them being in these cities.

02:14:05.000 And the major population center of British Columbia is Vancouver, right?

02:14:10.000 It's a big urban environment.

02:14:11.000 A bunch of liberal, yeah.

02:14:12.000 There's probably a lot of different people there, Cameron.

02:14:14.000 You don't have to be generalizing.

02:14:15.000 If they could have voted for Obama, they would have.

02:14:19.000 So these people that live in Vancouver, they comprise the majority of the people that are voting in British Columbia.

02:14:29.000 So they voted out the grizzly bear hunting.

02:14:31.000 But these people that I know, like my friend Mike Hawkridge, who lives in BC. Mike's had a lot of experience with grizzly bears and wolves.

02:14:39.000 Wolves up there are so plentiful, they don't have a bag limit on them.

02:14:43.000 You can shoot as many wolves as you want.

02:14:45.000 They encourage you to shoot wolves.

02:14:47.000 There's even a bounty in some places on wolves.

02:14:49.000 Well, and do you know, so I think this was a little different up there with the Bears.

02:14:55.000 I don't think they voted it out, per se.

02:14:57.000 I think the new government came in.

02:15:00.000 They took a poll and said, who, you know, supports grizzly hunting and whatever.

02:15:05.000 71 or 74 percent said they were opposed.

02:15:08.000 So the new government...

02:15:10.000 Just said, okay, we're going to make the decision to stop it.

02:15:14.000 Well, they didn't stop it.

02:15:15.000 This is what they did.

02:15:16.000 You can hunt the grizzlies for meat, but you can't keep the rug... 0.93

02:15:20.000 Or the skull.

02:15:21.000 Or the skull.

02:15:22.000 The hide or the skull.

02:15:23.000 Which people consider trophies.

02:15:25.000 Right.

02:15:25.000 But what the problem with that is, that is also a resource.

02:15:29.000 You're eliminating a resource.

02:15:30.000 If you shoot a bear and you eat the bear, why wouldn't you keep the rug, like have a bear rug in your house to commemorate that experience and also...

02:15:40.000 It's, you know, people have bare-skinned rugs.

02:15:43.000 It's always been...

02:15:44.000 I have about 50 of them.

02:15:47.000 But it's something that people, you know, like if you're eating the animal, that is also a part of the animal.

02:15:53.000 Why would you be compelled to throw that away?

02:15:55.000 That seems incredibly wasteful.

02:15:57.000 No, it's disrespectful.

02:15:59.000 Right.

02:15:59.000 It's also disrespectful to just shoot an animal just for its skin.

02:16:03.000 If you're the type of person who wants to shoot an elephant and just take the tusks and let the meat rot, a lot of people think that's disrespectful.

02:16:10.000 That's where trophy hunting gets its bad moniker.

02:16:13.000 Yeah.

02:16:13.000 So what they've done is the opposite of what makes sense.

02:16:16.000 You've removed part of the value of that animal, and you've also removed most of the economy of people hunting that animal.

02:16:25.000 So most people are not going to hunt them.

02:16:26.000 What they said was, so they were killing $250,000 a year, and they could get out of country or whatever hunters to pay $25,000 to hunt those bear.

02:16:40.000 So it was $25,000 times $250,000.

02:16:43.000 It's like...

02:16:44.000 A lot.

02:16:45.000 I don't know.

02:16:46.000 We're both stupid.

02:16:47.000 Over $1,000.

02:16:48.000 Means we're both stupid.

02:16:49.000 But anyway, so that money, just like the lion...

02:16:52.000 It's millions of dollars.

02:16:53.000 Just like the lion hunting...

02:16:55.000 God, I should be able to figure that out.

02:16:56.000 I don't want to.

02:16:56.000 What is it, Jamie?

02:16:57.000 A hundred...

02:16:58.000 How many tags they give?

02:16:59.000 250?

02:17:00.000 No, it's 250. 250 tags times 25,000.

02:17:04.000 What is that?

02:17:05.000 Smart people already figured it out.

02:17:06.000 I'm going to...

02:17:07.000 Take a guess.

02:17:09.000 I don't know.

02:17:11.000 50 million.

02:17:12.000 You'd have to have a pen and paper.

02:17:13.000 Say 50 million.

02:17:17.000 Six million two hundred and fifty whatever dollars.

02:17:20.000 Oh, I was wrong.

02:17:21.000 So think of that.

02:17:22.000 Now think that's the money that's gone.

02:17:24.000 That money is now no longer going into the economy.

02:17:27.000 Now they're going to have what they call problem bears. 0.99

02:17:30.000 Now problem bears are bears that attack people, which is very frequent.

02:17:33.000 Bears that attack animals, livestock, bears that encroach upon people's established residences and communities and start eating garbage cans and killing pets and things along those lines.

02:17:45.000 Then they have to hire people to go out and kill these bears.

02:17:48.000 And that's going to cost thousands of dollars a day.

02:17:51.000 You're going to have to pay for equipment.

02:17:53.000 Dogs, they usually have to track them with dogs.

02:17:55.000 These dogs have to be trained.

02:17:57.000 You have to get specialists who know what they're doing.

02:17:59.000 There has to be more than one because they need backup because you're dealing with a thousand pound animal.

02:18:03.000 I don't know if you want dogs on a grizzly.

02:18:05.000 I think that's how they find them.

02:18:07.000 I don't know.

02:18:08.000 I think that's Black Bear.

02:18:09.000 No, one of the guys that was on the Gritty Bowman podcast was talking about it.

02:18:16.000 Really?

02:18:16.000 Dogs?

02:18:17.000 The grizzly?

02:18:17.000 Yeah, that they use dogs to find them.

02:18:18.000 Seems like those dogs wouldn't last long.

02:18:20.000 Well, I don't think they engage the grizzly.

02:18:23.000 Okay.

02:18:23.000 I think they find them, you know, and bark at them and bay them up.

02:18:27.000 Yeah.

02:18:27.000 And then, you know, they locate them and then that's when the hunter comes in.

02:18:32.000 Okay.

02:18:32.000 That's another thing that you know people don't like that idea of using dogs to hunt animals But that's one of the more effective ways to find these animals It's one of the best ways they use in a lot of states to find mountain lions Yeah, and people think it's fucked up and cruel the only effective way to hunt mountain lions to be to be honest I mean you can gamble you might see one have a tag.

02:18:55.000 I mean I buy a tag in Oregon every year I've seen about I think I've seen three mountain lions in 30 years.

02:19:03.000 I have a tag.

02:19:04.000 I mean, I've had a shot one time, didn't get it killed.

02:19:08.000 But if you have dogs, then you can say, okay, we have...

02:19:13.000 We have 10,000 mountain lions.

02:19:15.000 We need to take out, you know, 500 a year.

02:19:19.000 So, like a lot of states, once you kill a lion, then you have to go to Game and Fish and get it checked in.

02:19:27.000 They do measurements.

02:19:29.000 They do all these different things.

02:19:31.000 And so, once 500 lions have come in, the season stops.

02:19:35.000 Right, so they have a mortality threshold.

02:19:39.000 Once they reach that limit, they said, well, we have 10,000, we need to kill 500 a year, so once we kill 500, season's over.

02:19:46.000 And for people, why would you want to kill the mountain lion?

02:19:48.000 I don't understand.

02:19:49.000 Well, first of all, you've got to control, again, the population of predators because nothing else does.

02:19:55.000 And two, you can eat mountain lions, and they're apparently delicious.

02:19:58.000 Yeah.

02:19:59.000 Have you had it?

02:20:00.000 No, I never have.

02:20:01.000 No.

02:20:02.000 I know people that have.

02:20:03.000 Rinella says it's absolutely delicious.

02:20:05.000 He shot a mountain lion last year for the first time.

02:20:07.000 He's had it before, but he's never had it his own.

02:20:09.000 He said it was sensational.

02:20:10.000 Oh, I'd definitely eat it.

02:20:11.000 I'd like to hunt lion.

02:20:13.000 I never have before.

02:20:14.000 And, you know, using the dogs...

02:20:18.000 The dogs are a tool.

02:20:19.000 They're a tool like a bow, like a rifle.

02:20:23.000 It's just those dogs have been trained so well and love what they do.

02:20:28.000 The owners love the dogs.

02:20:30.000 And that's just, I mean, there's, I don't know, it's such a special bond between them.

02:20:36.000 And then just being part of that is just another amazing hunting experience.

02:20:42.000 It's just a different tool to use.

02:20:44.000 Yeah, well, I think people think of dogs as being only pets, and that's what they should be used as, and dogs shouldn't work.

02:20:52.000 But, you know, that is...

02:20:53.000 And I understand that, because I have pets, and I wouldn't want Marshall to go out and get attacked.

02:20:59.000 You know, Marshall would shit his pants if he even saw a bear.

02:21:01.000 But there's different kinds of dogs that were bred for very specific purposes.

02:21:07.000 That's what those dogs want to do. 0.99

02:21:09.000 They do.

02:21:10.000 That's one of the things that Aaron Schneider talked about in the podcast, where he was standing in the wrong place when they opened up the pen to let the grizzly dogs out, and the dog just leaped and slammed him in the chest and just about knocked him unconscious.

02:21:24.000 Which podcast was this?

02:21:25.000 It's one of the Gritty Bowman podcasts, one of the more recent ones.

02:21:28.000 Let me see if I can pull out the number, because I was listening to it recently.

02:21:32.000 Gritty Bowman is a very good podcast by these guys that are friends of ours.

02:21:37.000 Brian Call and Aaron Schneider.

02:21:39.000 And the number, episode 282, and there was another one in there.

02:21:50.000 But 282 is, I think, the big one.

02:21:53.000 It's about predator management with bark.

02:21:55.000 Bart Lancaster and that's the one where they really talked about they talked about guys who live there in British Columbia who are talking about how you know when he's not home and he has to go somewhere he has to leave his dog with his wife if his wife goes riding a horse he has to bring the wife has to bring dogs with her because there's so many fucking grizzly bears out there they have to have something that's gonna protect him warn him and these these dogs are not just pets they're also a first line of defense To let them know that there's danger in the area.

02:22:26.000 Let them know that bears are near.

02:22:27.000 And also, keep the bears away.

02:22:28.000 Because the bears hear dogs.

02:22:30.000 They don't want to fuck around.

02:22:31.000 No.

02:22:31.000 And the dogs, they start barking.

02:22:33.000 That means people are going to know.

02:22:34.000 That means out come the guns.

02:22:35.000 Right.

02:22:36.000 Right.

02:22:36.000 Yeah.

02:22:37.000 Good deterrent for sure.

02:22:38.000 People in Vancouver.

02:22:39.000 They don't understand this.

02:22:40.000 They're not there.

02:22:41.000 They're just sitting there eating tofu and talking about spirituality.

02:22:47.000 And then they pass these bans and they upset the entire balance of nature.

02:22:53.000 They upset the economy.

02:22:55.000 The economy of hunting, of conservation, all these things get all lopsided.

02:23:01.000 And I understand where they're coming from.

02:23:03.000 I understand the sentiment.

02:23:04.000 But a lot of it is entirely based on The images that people have seen in movies, in Disney films, and the anthropomorphization of these animals where you attach human characteristics to these ultra-predators, these enormous monsters of nature,

02:23:21.000 which are amazing.

02:23:22.000 I can speak for myself, but I know I'm speaking for you, too.

02:23:25.000 We don't want bears to not be there.

02:23:27.000 We don't want wolves to not be there.

02:23:28.000 They're amazing.

02:23:30.000 I'm glad that they exist.

02:23:32.000 They're fucking awesome.

02:23:33.000 I mean, to be outside, I've never heard a wolf howl.

02:23:36.000 Well, I did once.

02:23:37.000 I did it with Hawkridge in BC, but they were like way in the distance.

02:23:41.000 I heard wolves howl.

02:23:42.000 But to see them and be there when it's happening, I saw a grizzly bear once in Alberta.

02:23:48.000 And just to look at it, it's like, holy shit.

02:23:50.000 You see those things?

02:23:51.000 It's amazing.

02:23:52.000 I mean, it's magical.

02:23:53.000 Okay.

02:23:54.000 But that doesn't mean that they don't need to be managed.

02:23:57.000 Yeah, but that's a weird word, right?

02:23:59.000 And that's what people say is like, well, why are we interfering?

02:24:04.000 They'd figure it out themselves.

02:24:05.000 They have forever.

02:24:06.000 And what people don't or fail to realize, I guess, is no, man's always been involved.

02:24:12.000 Yeah.

02:24:13.000 We've always hunted.

02:24:14.000 Yeah.

02:24:14.000 We've been involved in how many animals there are.

02:24:18.000 Sometimes we've been involved negatively, like when we almost wiped out the elk or the buffalo.

02:24:24.000 Lately, we've been involved positively and we manage them.

02:24:27.000 And this is the other thing they talked about on the Gritty Bowman podcast where they really emphasize the difference between a biologist who's not in the field and all these different people, whether it's the hunters themselves or whether it's the guides or whether it's the people that are outfitters that are there.

02:24:48.000 24-7, 365. They can give you more data.

02:24:51.000 They understand the real numbers.

02:24:52.000 It's very difficult when you're dealing with, especially something like British Columbia, intensely wooded area.

02:24:59.000 Yeah.

02:24:59.000 To get a real number, I mean, there's no, like, you can't just pull up the social security numbers of the bears and find out how many of them are still alive.

02:25:08.000 And you can't fly over and get a count like they do a lot of animals.

02:25:12.000 Right, like caribou or something.

02:25:13.000 Well, caribou and even elk, where they winter.

02:25:16.000 So elk, once winter hits, they get pushed down to where they can get feed in the winter.

02:25:21.000 That's where they get the counts.

02:25:24.000 So that's where they can get a pretty good number or idea of how many elk are in that area.

02:25:29.000 Bear don't do that. 0.98

02:25:30.000 You're never going to fly over.

02:25:31.000 There's no wintering grounds for bear.

02:25:33.000 Well, that's another important thing that Adam found out.

02:25:35.000 When Adam Greentree was on this crazy walkabout that he was doing for the last month, he found mountain grizzlies.

02:25:42.000 What he believes, and he says, and I know that he's a very smart guy, he's been around a lot of animals, he believes there's 100% mountain grizzlies in Colorado.

02:25:50.000 That's what he said, yeah.

02:25:51.000 Pictures of them.

02:25:52.000 And he even put up photos.

02:25:54.000 They're really hard to see pictures.

02:25:55.000 Yeah.

02:25:55.000 Way off in the distance.

02:25:57.000 But he even put a photo up of, you know, online.

02:26:00.000 He did online searches for that mountain range in Colorado.

02:26:03.000 And they said that it's like people who see Bigfoot.

02:26:06.000 They say they see grizzlies.

02:26:07.000 But he's like, he spotted four of them.

02:26:09.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:26:10.000 So, I mean, that's a good example.

02:26:13.000 I mean, if those were grizzly, then there's grizzly we didn't know about.

02:26:16.000 How many people are going to do what Adam did and actually go out there 20-plus miles deep into the woods with a fucking tent and find these things?

02:26:23.000 It's incredibly difficult to get real-world numbers on these animals.

02:26:28.000 Yeah, and that's...

02:26:29.000 So, once you take the science out of it and the people with boots on the ground actually weighing in on...

02:26:38.000 Hey, Kate, here's how many animals there are.

02:26:41.000 Here's how many we need to kill.

02:26:42.000 Once you do like they did in B.C. and the government just decides that the public can't stomach it anymore because they did some poll at Starbucks in B.C., right?

02:26:52.000 Yes.

02:26:52.000 A poll at Starbucks, which is where I went today, by the way, but I still kill stuff.

02:27:01.000 That's where...

02:27:03.000 Yeah.

02:27:20.000 Environment that these animals live in.

02:27:22.000 You could never imagine if you lived in Vancouver and went to some of the best restaurants in the world and drove some of the nicest streets.

02:27:30.000 Vancouver is an amazing city.

02:27:32.000 If you lived there and you had this idea of what wildlife is, but you never left Vancouver, or if you did, oh, we visited Chicago.

02:27:40.000 It was beautiful.

02:27:41.000 You don't know.

02:27:42.000 You literally have to be there to just kind of get a sense of it.

02:27:46.000 And you wouldn't get a sense of it in one trip.

02:27:48.000 You'd have to be there all the time.

02:27:50.000 You'd have to take multiple excursions into the forest to really understand what you're talking about and what you're dealing with.

02:27:57.000 So to make those decisions based on people who are completely ignorant about that situation, that's like...

02:28:04.000 It's crazy.

02:28:05.000 I mean, it's a ridiculous way to handle it.

02:28:08.000 So thankfully, here in the United States, we do have a great system for wildlife management.

02:28:15.000 And our government, except for here in California with the mountain lions, trusts the professionals, the biologists, the people out, you know, boots on the ground, as I said.

02:28:25.000 And we...

02:28:26.000 We trust those people to allocate tags, to give us numbers, to help manage the hunt seasons and how many tags are for each area.

02:28:37.000 So thankfully that's continued to happen here.

02:28:40.000 But even here it gets protested.

02:28:42.000 Like the delisting of wolves in an area where they're starting to desolate or devastate.

02:28:46.000 Delisting of grizzlies.

02:28:47.000 Yeah, and that's going to get pushed back too.

02:28:49.000 People are going to sue against it, but The the idea is not to kill all these animals the idea is not to To satisfy the bloodthirsty urges some fat redneck that people have in their mind as being the Stereotypical hunter that they see as a bad guy in a movie right like in a movie It's always like, 1.00

02:29:12.000 remember the scene in Wolverine where there's the bad guys who killed the bear and he goes and fucks those bad guys up?

02:29:18.000 Did you shoot that bear with poison?

02:29:19.000 Weren't they drunk or something like that?

02:29:21.000 Yeah, of course.

02:29:21.000 They're drinking.

02:29:22.000 God, so retarded. 1.00

02:29:23.000 It's so stereotypical.

02:29:24.000 It's like the idea that every beautiful woman has to be stupid. 1.00

02:29:27.000 It's just as offensive.

02:29:30.000 And this is the stereotype that we've been fed because...

02:29:35.000 It's a classic cliche sort of a scenario, right?

02:29:40.000 It's easy.

02:29:40.000 You see it in the movie, right?

02:29:42.000 Jocks are big, dumb, stupid guys.

02:29:44.000 Hot girls are bimbos. 1.00

02:29:46.000 You know, the nerdy guy with glasses is always smart.

02:29:49.000 Sometimes those nerdy guys with glasses are fucking idiots.

02:29:52.000 Yeah.

02:29:52.000 You know?

02:29:53.000 Sometimes the hot girl's smart. 1.00

02:29:54.000 Sometimes the hot girl's way smarter than us. 1.00

02:29:56.000 It's all possible.

02:29:58.000 So sometimes hunters aren't...

02:30:00.000 Most times.

02:30:01.000 That's the thing that frustrates the shit out of me.

02:30:03.000 My experience has been like what we experienced this past weekend.

02:30:06.000 People like Lee and Tiffany, people like you and Ben, really good people.

02:30:12.000 Really good, nice people.

02:30:14.000 I mean, we know so many people that are involved in the outdoor world or the hunting world.

02:30:21.000 The industry, yeah.

02:30:21.000 Yeah, whether it's John Dudley or Remy or Steve Rinella.

02:30:25.000 These are great people.

02:30:26.000 They're exceptional human beings.

02:30:28.000 People with exceptional character and exceptional discipline.

02:30:32.000 Right.

02:30:33.000 It's not the fat redneck that wants to poison a grizzly bear that Wolverine has to beat up in a stupid movie. 0.97

02:30:38.000 Right.

02:30:39.000 But that's all you see.

02:30:40.000 No, and I even, I did a call out on, it was like some triple X movie or Xander's cage, somebody, I don't know what it was, but...

02:30:51.000 They had the girl on there said... 0.98

02:30:55.000 They showed these bow hunters getting ready to shoot...

02:30:57.000 Did we talk about this one the last time?

02:30:59.000 Getting ready to...

02:31:00.000 Or maybe I just put it on my Facebook.

02:31:02.000 Getting ready to shoot a lion with a bow.

02:31:06.000 She's with a rifle, with the rifle scope on his head.

02:31:09.000 She shoots the hunter.

02:31:11.000 And she says...

02:31:13.000 So Vin Diesel calls her on the phone about some mission they're going to do for this stupid movie.

02:31:18.000 And...

02:31:19.000 He says, what are you up to?

02:31:21.000 And she's like evening the odds. 0.96

02:31:24.000 So she was shooting a hunter.

02:31:26.000 And that's on a regular movie.

02:31:29.000 That's so corny.

02:31:30.000 You talk to people in Africa, they want lions dead because lions kill their friends.

02:31:35.000 Yeah.

02:31:36.000 Like, I know a woman who lived in South Africa who lost a friend to a lion.

02:31:42.000 Yeah.

02:31:42.000 And when you talk to her about lions, she...

02:31:44.000 She has that South African accent.

02:31:46.000 She's born and raised.

02:31:47.000 Right.

02:31:47.000 And, you know, when she talks about lions, she goes, they've just never been around lions here.

02:31:52.000 No.

02:31:52.000 She goes, you don't know what it's like.

02:31:54.000 There was an article that was written by a guy from Zimbabwe, right after the whole Cease of the Lion thing, that was in the New York Times, that it said, in Zimbabwe, we do not cry for lions.

02:32:04.000 Right, right.

02:32:05.000 Yeah, and this was about people that have had to deal with these things.

02:32:08.000 It's not saying that we want all lions dead.

02:32:10.000 No.

02:32:11.000 We don't.

02:32:11.000 No, but you've got to hunt them so they're out of the, or people live.

02:32:15.000 Well, people don't understand.

02:32:16.000 It's the same thing as with the grizzly bears.

02:32:18.000 When they made lion hunting such a dangerous proposition for people that do it because you're going to get ostracized, people are going to show up at your house and protest like they did that dentist guy.

02:32:29.000 Yeah.

02:32:30.000 They've had a cull lions now.

02:32:32.000 Now they have to hire hitmen to go in there and shoot all these lions and they make no money.

02:32:36.000 So instead of making $50,000 per lion, which helps the community, helps fund their schools and gives them money, and there's been a lot of articles written about the lie of conservation when it comes to lion hunting and how little of it actually goes to the people of the community and how much of it actually goes to the outfitters.

02:32:55.000 But you know how much of it goes to the community if you don't have hunters?

02:32:59.000 Yeah.

02:33:00.000 Zero.

02:33:00.000 Right.

02:33:01.000 Zero.

02:33:01.000 You know how much of it goes into the community if these people protest?

02:33:04.000 The people that don't want lying, how much do they put in?

02:33:07.000 Zero.

02:33:08.000 Right.

02:33:08.000 They don't help those people at all.

02:33:09.000 Most of them just are, you know, hashtag activists or, you know, internet people that are just posting pictures up on Instagram and Facebook and getting people riled up and starting petitions.

02:33:22.000 But how much are you actually doing there?

02:33:25.000 Are they doing anything?

02:33:26.000 No.

02:33:26.000 You've got to manage lying.

02:33:28.000 Nobody likes to hear that.

02:33:29.000 But if you want people to live in the same vicinity as lions, you have to make sure the lion population doesn't get too crazy.

02:33:37.000 And also they devastate the ungulate population. 1.00

02:33:40.000 They devastate them.

02:33:40.000 That's one of the reasons why they had to call them in Zimbabwe.

02:33:42.000 You know, there's not like they have a bunch of stores with stock full of meat.

02:33:48.000 So they have cows.

02:33:49.000 You know, that's kind of what they have.

02:33:51.000 They have cows and We're good to go.

02:34:09.000 If that gets killed by a lion, it drastically impacts their life.

02:34:13.000 I think a lot of people have ideas about wildlife that are entirely shaped by movies and by television shows, and we have this unrealistic depiction.

02:34:23.000 And this is not in support or against hunting.

02:34:27.000 This is just, I think, the reality of humans and our view of the wild world.

02:34:34.000 You saw that woman last year, she was an editor for Game of Thrones, and she was in the wild in Africa.

02:34:44.000 Oh yeah, she got drug out?

02:34:45.000 She decided to roll down her window to get a bit of a photo, and the cat said, thank you, just reached in, grabbed her, pulled her out of the car, and killed her in front of everybody.

02:34:53.000 Yeah, drug her out. 1.00

02:34:54.000 That's what a lion does. 0.99

02:34:55.000 Yeah.

02:34:56.000 Yeah.

02:34:57.000 No, it's...

02:34:58.000 The lion's not doing that because she was antagonizing it or because it was hungry.

02:35:02.000 It's a killing machine.

02:35:03.000 It's nature's killing machine.

02:35:05.000 It's the reason why we're not...

02:35:06.000 You don't have to hack your way through a river of gazelles to get to your fucking car.

02:35:10.000 It's because those cats exist.

02:35:12.000 Well, it's...

02:35:14.000 I don't know.

02:35:15.000 I'm glad for this forum to talk about things like this because I know we've made an impact because of you and you reach so many people and you're Wearing an Under Armour Hunt shirt right now with a big bull on it and a Hoyt bow hunting hat.

02:35:31.000 And it's just like, I feel like there's been education happening for a few years now.

02:35:37.000 And we're slowly turning the tide.

02:35:40.000 And people do care more about where their food comes from.

02:35:43.000 Kind of the process of, how'd this food get to my...

02:35:46.000 Not everybody's thinking that, but a lot of people are.

02:35:49.000 And it just feels like, also like, bow hunting is just...

02:35:54.000 A cool thing to be involved.

02:35:56.000 Shooting a bow is cool.

02:35:57.000 Shooting a bow is awesome.

02:35:59.000 It's fun.

02:35:59.000 It's exciting.

02:36:00.000 And I always tell people, even if you want to eat plants for the rest of your life, you never want to kill an animal ever, just try archery just for meditation.

02:36:06.000 It's an amazing, relaxing thing because to release a perfect arrow and have it hit that bullseye is so difficult and involves so many different things that you have to manage and control that in doing that, it sort of cleanses your mind.

02:36:19.000 Yeah.

02:36:20.000 I love it.

02:36:21.000 Oh, nothing better.

02:36:22.000 I mean, we were, I posted a video yesterday and we were, you know, we had success on our hunt.

02:36:28.000 We tagged out.

02:36:29.000 We both got elk.

02:36:30.000 So our hunt was done and we were still, you, me, and Jed were having a great time just shooting arrows and having fun.

02:36:36.000 Yeah.

02:36:36.000 Shooting at targets and just laughing and making little bets with each other and stuff and having a great time.

02:36:43.000 No, we're even.

02:36:45.000 Jed owed me a hundred bucks, but I let it slide because Under Armour paid for the hunt.

02:36:52.000 I think what's important about podcasts, and it's not just for hunting, I think it's important for almost every really difficult, complex, nuanced subject, is you have to discuss all the aspects of it.

02:37:08.000 And you can't do that on a regular television show.

02:37:11.000 You also have to remove a lot of the...

02:37:16.000 Unrealistic programming that we have in our head because of anthropomorphization of animals attaching human characteristics that we've seen in Disney movies and all of our lives.

02:37:28.000 Animals have been our friends.

02:37:29.000 We've had teddy bears that are our friends.

02:37:31.000 Polar bears are selling us Klondike bars and Coca-Cola.

02:37:34.000 We have all this in our head that these are these cute, awesome things, which they are awesome.

02:37:39.000 They are beautiful.

02:37:40.000 But we don't know what they really are.

02:37:42.000 We have an unrealistic idea of what they really are.

02:37:45.000 We might see them in the zoo.

02:37:47.000 Oh, there's the bear in the zoo.

02:37:48.000 Hi, bear! 0.94

02:37:49.000 This is not what they really are.

02:37:51.000 And unless you have real-world experience in where they really are, Like I was saying to Tom, the guy who owns the ranch.

02:38:00.000 Tom Land.

02:38:00.000 I was saying, you've got this amazing place, and I think you should take people on guided tours that have no intention whatsoever of hunting.

02:38:09.000 Yeah.

02:38:09.000 Just show them the rut.

02:38:11.000 Wild elk.

02:38:12.000 Because it's so much greater than any experience you'll ever have at the zoo.

02:38:15.000 Yeah.

02:38:15.000 With me and Colton and Jameson, we're out there covered in the bushes hiding and hearing...

02:38:23.000 Hearing these elk scream all around us.

02:38:25.000 We were saying, this is amazing.

02:38:27.000 How many people get to experience this?

02:38:29.000 These elk had no idea we were there, and we got to creep in on them and watch them just be wild elk.

02:38:35.000 And it was amazing.

02:38:36.000 I mean, it was thrilling.

02:38:37.000 It was incredible.

02:38:39.000 I mean, I'm looking at all these cows, and I'm thrilled.

02:38:41.000 I have no desire to kill them.

02:38:43.000 I was looking at elk that I knew I wasn't going to kill, and I was still enjoying every second of it.

02:38:47.000 Right.

02:38:47.000 Like, if people could go and experience that, and just be...

02:38:51.000 I think you would get, like, one step closer to an understanding of that this whole world is this wild collection of things that are interacting with each other.

02:39:05.000 Right.

02:39:05.000 And if you know just one piece of it, you can't really judge...

02:39:08.000 No.

02:39:09.000 All of it.

02:39:10.000 You know, and so what should they do?

02:39:12.000 Maybe they should trust people who've been there, who've done it, who understand, who aren't bloodthirsty killers, but actually have been out there and know how it all goes together.

02:39:23.000 It's okay to trust people like that and not think that hunting's bad, hunters are bad.

02:39:28.000 So be like, maybe I just didn't get it.

02:39:30.000 But I don't think the hunters had a voice before.

02:39:33.000 Right.

02:39:33.000 I think before podcasts came along, we relied on people like Ronella or yourself to write books.

02:39:39.000 And then you have to read those books.

02:39:41.000 Nobody wants to read a fucking book.

02:39:43.000 No, and you're reaching...

02:39:44.000 So it's...

02:39:45.000 What's that saying?

02:39:47.000 You're preaching to the choir.

02:39:48.000 Right.

02:39:48.000 So whoever's buying the book...

02:39:50.000 Exactly.

02:39:51.000 ...is already on your team.

02:39:52.000 Exactly.

02:39:52.000 So this has allowed us to reach people who maybe aren't on the team.

02:39:57.000 Yeah.

02:39:58.000 And that's what's, you know, we've been able to vet it and discuss in detail and go through it.

02:40:04.000 So, I don't know.

02:40:06.000 I mean, I just wish people could have more of an open mind about it.

02:40:11.000 It takes time.

02:40:12.000 It does, yeah.

02:40:13.000 It takes time, but I've got a lot of messages from people and I've talked to a lot of people in real life that have said to me that they've changed their thoughts on what hunting is by listening to me talk to Ronella, listening to me talk to you, listening to me talk to Remy and John Dudley and all these different people where you get a sense.

02:40:30.000 Of like, oh, these are like really good people.

02:40:33.000 And these are people that are experiencing this wild thing.

02:40:36.000 And it gives them like this itch.

02:40:37.000 Because I can remember before I ever hunted, for years, I had this weird itch about it.

02:40:42.000 Where I'd been fishing most of my life.

02:40:45.000 You know, I always would go fishing.

02:40:47.000 But I'd never been hunting until 2012. But before that, I always had these thoughts about it.

02:40:53.000 Like I'd always sit around and I'd go, man, what was...

02:40:56.000 Like, that's gotta be the best way to get meat, right?

02:40:58.000 It's gotta be the healthiest for you.

02:41:00.000 And I would buy, like, I would always order, like, if they had venison in a restaurant, I'd always order it, or, you know, elk, or, you know, bison, or something like that.

02:41:08.000 I'm like, wow, it tastes different.

02:41:09.000 And that's farm-raised bullshit, you know?

02:41:11.000 When you're buying venison in a store, you're not getting a wild deer.

02:41:15.000 No.

02:41:15.000 You're getting some weird...

02:41:16.000 They can't sell wild.

02:41:17.000 No.

02:41:17.000 You're mostly getting it from New Zealand, in fact.

02:41:19.000 Yeah.

02:41:20.000 Which is really weird.

02:41:21.000 You're getting a lot of New Zealand elk.

02:41:23.000 Yeah.

02:41:23.000 So when I... I would think about it for the longest time.

02:41:28.000 I was getting little fragments of information from these television shows, and a lot of them were terrible.

02:41:34.000 I'd watch a lot of the hunting shows, and they would be real redneck-y, low-brow, really fucking yokel dum-dums. 1.00

02:41:42.000 And I'd be like, well, I don't want to be involved in that.

02:41:45.000 And then I found Rinella's show, and that was the first thing that opened my eyes.

02:41:48.000 I went, okay.

02:41:49.000 Alright, here's a guy who's really smart and well-read and cooks all these things.

02:41:55.000 And he cooks all these animals in this really delicious preparation.

02:41:59.000 I'm like, okay, now I'm intrigued.

02:42:01.000 And luckily I got to meet him and luckily it started me on this journey.

02:42:06.000 But for most people, they're stuck with that Wolverine movie.

02:42:11.000 They're stuck with that image.

02:42:13.000 And being involved in this for so long, I can say I do a lot of different things.

02:42:21.000 The ultra running community is not a hunters.

02:42:25.000 I mean, those are pretty green people.

02:42:28.000 But I can say that for me, the best people I know, my closest friends, the people I can count on for anything, like I said, are hunters.

02:42:37.000 And it's like, hunters, I think...

02:42:40.000 Just have a different perspective on life, death, struggle, and where that's driven home for me is the death threats I get.

02:42:50.000 There's comments right now on a couple of my photos from people that said, somebody said they hope I get home and my family gets in a car crash and I get there just in enough time to where the flames are burning them and they're clawing at the windows.

02:43:09.000 That's the kind of stuff people post on my photos today because I hunt.

02:43:15.000 Meanwhile, is that person eating a cheeseburger right now?

02:43:18.000 I don't know.

02:43:19.000 Are they buying their cat canned chicken?

02:43:22.000 No, but they're weak people that don't understand that...

02:43:28.000 How life works.

02:43:29.000 Hunters understand the preciousness of life. 0.51

02:43:32.000 We take life to sustain ourselves.

02:43:35.000 We accept that fact.

02:43:36.000 So we appreciate life.

02:43:38.000 We appreciate friendship.

02:43:39.000 We appreciate somebody who's there for you because you've been down.

02:43:44.000 You've been up.

02:43:45.000 You've, you know, killed animals.

02:43:47.000 You know what goes into to eating and surviving.

02:43:51.000 Somebody like that puts on their blinders, judges people, wants my family to die.

02:43:58.000 They don't even really.

02:43:59.000 What they're doing is just trying to hurt your feelings and make you feel like shit.

02:44:03.000 But that's what I'm saying.

02:44:05.000 Hunters won't do that.

02:44:06.000 Hunters are... 0.97

02:44:08.000 I don't know, they're the best people...

02:44:09.000 I don't even think we can generalize, because there's some hunters that are pieces of shit, you know?

02:44:12.000 It's like, we would like to think...

02:44:13.000 The best people I know are hunters.

02:44:15.000 But you know some of the best hunters.

02:44:17.000 I'm just, well...

02:44:18.000 And I think that's, when you get to the elite of anything, you get to people that have exceptional character, that have allowed them to get really, truly great at any pursuit.

02:44:27.000 And you're talking about guys like Lee Lukoski or Remy Warren, you're talking about the elite of the elite, right?

02:44:32.000 If they were doing anything, they would be amazing at it.

02:44:35.000 And I think that, when you're talking about the character of those people, those are people that have overcome incredible odds to become very good at something that's insanely difficult, which is bow hunting.

02:44:45.000 And I think a lot of these people, the problem is, First of all, there's an anonymous communication on the internet.

02:44:50.000 That's a problem.

02:44:51.000 The problem is talking to people in person.

02:44:53.000 You get social cues.

02:44:55.000 If I say something mean to you and I see I'm hurting your feelings, you feel it.

02:44:58.000 You're trying to reach out and hurt someone.

02:45:00.000 You're not even in the room.

02:45:01.000 You're throwing a bomb.

02:45:02.000 You're closing your eyes and throwing a bomb over a bridge.

02:45:05.000 You're not seeing them.

02:45:07.000 It's a bad form of communication for the human animal.

02:45:12.000 Unless you commit to only being nice and kind or friendly or funny online, unless you commit to doing that and never trying to reach out and attack someone and hurt someone, you're using this whole thing wrong because you're taking advantage of this weird little loophole that exists in communication.

02:45:31.000 Right.

02:45:31.000 Where you can communicate with someone with no repercussions.

02:45:33.000 Because if someone said that in front of your face...

02:45:35.000 Oh, they never would, though.

02:45:37.000 Exactly.

02:45:37.000 Yeah.

02:45:37.000 But if they did, you know, it would get fucking hot, right?

02:45:40.000 Right.

02:45:40.000 If someone said that to me in front of my face, it would be very hard for me to stop from assaulting them.

02:45:45.000 It just seems weird that hunters don't go to a vegan...

02:45:50.000 I don't even know if they have pages.

02:45:51.000 I assume they have pages.

02:45:53.000 And just talk shit to vegans.

02:45:54.000 Oh, yeah.

02:45:54.000 They have tons of them.

02:45:55.000 Yeah, but...

02:45:56.000 We won't do that.

02:45:57.000 Well, it's, you know, it's not something, they're not doing anything that we oppose, right?

02:46:05.000 I don't oppose people eating vegetables.

02:46:07.000 I eat vegetables.

02:46:08.000 They think in their mind that we are doing something that is immoral or that is unevolved.

02:46:16.000 Yeah.

02:46:16.000 And I think that's just ignorance.

02:46:18.000 They don't understand that we are here for a very temporary short amount of time and the more we embrace the richness and complexity that is life and the life eats life struggle and the less we finger point and more we try to look at our own Footprint,

02:46:35.000 our carbon footprint, and just the sustainability footprint that we leave on this world.

02:46:41.000 And in my eyes, there's no more sustainable way of living than supporting conservation through buying tags and supporting it through buying outdoor equipment.

02:46:51.000 What is the number of percentage of taxes that go from when you buy hunting equipment that goes straight to conservation?

02:46:57.000 It's like 11%, I think.

02:46:59.000 Something like that, yeah.

02:47:00.000 Which is millions and billions of dollars.

02:47:02.000 Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation has a great bunch of charts that show how much money each year hunters put into contributing to wildlife conservation.

02:47:12.000 It's stunning.

02:47:13.000 It's billions of dollars.

02:47:14.000 And it is number one in conservation by a fucking long shot.

02:47:19.000 The second place is like a tiny fraction of what hunting contributes to conservation.

02:47:27.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:47:28.000 Most people don't know that.

02:47:29.000 It takes these kind of conversations for people to find out.

02:47:32.000 Hunters know that.

02:47:33.000 Hunters do know that.

02:47:34.000 Here it is.

02:47:35.000 Gun and ammo taxes result in $1.1 billion for wildlife and conservation each year.

02:47:42.000 $1.1 billion.

02:47:45.000 That's just gun and ammo taxes.

02:47:49.000 Forget about bows and arrows and hunting equipment and clothing and all the different factors that play in different pieces that contribute to conservation.

02:48:01.000 It's an amazing amount.

02:48:03.000 And you're not getting that from people who are philanthropists.

02:48:07.000 You're not getting that from people that just want to be nice and contribute to animals.

02:48:11.000 You get a tiny fraction of that.

02:48:12.000 Yeah, that's true.

02:48:16.000 That whole thing, you know, Rocky Mountain Out Foundation, they came up with the hunting as conservation.

02:48:22.000 And it's like a little part of that, though, when I hunt, I don't think I'm going to go out here and conserve.

02:48:28.000 You know, I think I want to kill a mature animal.

02:48:31.000 I want to take meat home to my family.

02:48:32.000 The byproduct of what we do is conservation.

02:48:35.000 And that's where that money comes in.

02:48:37.000 And that's where the hunters, you know, buying the hunting licenses and hunting tags.

02:48:41.000 Because people have told me, well...

02:48:44.000 You're taking credit for being a conservationist, but would you do that if you didn't have to?

02:48:51.000 And I'm like, it doesn't matter.

02:48:53.000 My money's there whether I would do it or not.

02:48:57.000 Also, here's an important thing.

02:48:59.000 Hunters chose to vote to put that amount of money towards conservation.

02:49:04.000 This is something that nobody fought.

02:49:06.000 Right.

02:49:06.000 No, we've never fought, oh, that's too expensive.

02:49:09.000 Right.

02:49:10.000 11%?

02:49:11.000 I want all that money in my own pocket.

02:49:12.000 We gladly do it.

02:49:14.000 But it's like, you know, I'm a hunter.

02:49:19.000 First, I'm a conservationist because I'm a hunter.

02:49:22.000 Right.

02:49:22.000 But you're also a hunter because people before you were conservationists and they made sure that the hunting was protected.

02:49:29.000 Right.

02:49:30.000 And that you didn't have to be a conservationist first and then hope that your kids or their kids could be hunters because the world would be in more balance.

02:49:37.000 Right.

02:49:38.000 They tied them together and this model's worked so well.

02:49:43.000 It's worked so well, but it's been represented so poorly.

02:49:47.000 I think up until recently.

02:49:50.000 I didn't understand what it was until I became involved in it.

02:49:54.000 So I'm very thankful for people like you and people like Steve Rinella that opened the door for me.

02:50:00.000 And then I feel like as much as I preach about this and much as I'm redundant as fuck and annoying to a lot of people listening, I think I have a responsibility to share what I've learned.

02:50:11.000 And to communicate about this, even though people get mad at me.

02:50:15.000 You can stop killing animals, all caps.

02:50:17.000 Yeah, they're really mad.

02:50:18.000 Yeah, okay.

02:50:19.000 Stop eating grain, you fuck.

02:50:21.000 If you look, people don't understand.

02:50:24.000 We've talked about this before.

02:50:25.000 If you look at a grain field after it's been plowed, what do you see?

02:50:29.000 Vultures flying over.

02:50:30.000 Once that combine goes through and gets the wheat, there's all sorts of dead animals.

02:50:35.000 Buzzards flying around.

02:50:38.000 So you drink coffee?

02:50:40.000 How do you think the coffee beans, where those are grown, there's no weeds.

02:50:46.000 There's animals dying for your coffee.

02:50:49.000 There's animals dying for everything.

02:50:51.000 And I think the closer we can get to a real, true, organic relationship...

02:50:59.000 With life.

02:51:00.000 With all life.

02:51:01.000 Plant life.

02:51:01.000 I mean, I fucking hate the idea of pesticides.

02:51:04.000 You know, I hate the idea that we're spraying things on certain plants to kill them so that we can grow other plants.

02:51:11.000 Like, large-scale agriculture, when you look at a giant cornfield...

02:51:15.000 Ladies and gentlemen, that is one of the most unnatural things in all of life, and it is one of the weirdest things we've just accepted as being natural.

02:51:24.000 It's not natural, and it's one of the reasons why they have to dump nitrogen into the soil and all kinds of other shit and pesticides and use Roundup and use giant machines to grind up all this stuff.

02:51:37.000 I'm not saying you shouldn't eat wheat, but I'm saying All of this is unnatural.

02:51:42.000 Cities are unnatural.

02:51:43.000 All this is unnatural.

02:51:45.000 And the more we understand about the true nature of our interactions with this life that we are surrounded with, the better off we'll all be.

02:51:55.000 And it doesn't mean finger pointing or saying that you should watch your family die in a fire.

02:52:00.000 That's not helping anybody.

02:52:01.000 They don't understand.

02:52:03.000 It's just digging in on both sides.

02:52:06.000 It's sort of the same thing that people do in politics.

02:52:09.000 You know, the right hates the left and the left hates the right and nothing gets done because everybody's just digging in and supporting their side.

02:52:16.000 And it's just, we all need to realize that this life that we're experiencing is far more nuanced and requires far more research and far more understanding of all the different pieces that are moving.

02:52:28.000 That was another great thing about that hunting trip is I had no idea what people were attacking Donald Trump for for about a week.

02:52:38.000 Or anybody.

02:52:39.000 Whether or not we're going to fight North Korea. 0.84

02:52:42.000 Yeah.

02:52:42.000 Didn't know anything.

02:52:43.000 It was awesome.

02:52:44.000 I was just hoping that no one got nuked in the time that we had no service for a week.

02:52:50.000 I was just hoping there wasn't a new attack or Kim Jong-un didn't shoot a rocket over Japan or whatever the fuck it was.

02:52:57.000 I didn't know any of that, and everything worked out just fine, so that was a win-win.

02:53:02.000 And we're here.

02:53:03.000 Yeah.

02:53:03.000 Well, listen, brother, let's wrap this up.

02:53:05.000 Okay.

02:53:05.000 We just did three hours.

02:53:07.000 Amazing.

02:53:08.000 Goes by like that, right?

02:53:09.000 That was good.

02:53:09.000 Yeah, thank you very much.

02:53:10.000 Thank you.

02:53:11.000 Thank you for getting me into bow hunting.

02:53:13.000 Thanks for taking me on this epic trip.

02:53:15.000 Thanks to Under Armour.

02:53:17.000 Thanks to Tom, the owner of the ranch, and everybody else involved.

02:53:22.000 That's it.

02:53:23.000 All right.

02:53:24.000 All right, fuckers. 0.57

02:53:24.000 That's it. 0.57

02:53:25.000 See you soon.

02:53:26.000 Bye!

02:53:26.000 Keep hammering.

02:53:27.000 Keep hammering, bitches. 1.00

The Joe Rogan Experience - September 22, 2017

Joe Rogan Experience #1013 - Cameron Hanes

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Summary

Transcript