The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1032 - Colin Moriarty

00:00:04.000 Three, two, one.

00:00:07.000 Yeehaw! 0.92

00:00:07.000 Yeehaw, Colin! 0.92

00:00:08.000 How are you, buddy?

00:00:09.000 I'm good, man.

00:00:09.000 How are you?

00:00:10.000 Good, thanks.

00:00:10.000 What's going on?

00:00:11.000 What's cracking?

00:00:12.000 Not a lot.

00:00:12.000 It's an honor for you to ask me back.

00:00:14.000 I appreciate it.

00:00:14.000 Oh, my pleasure, dude.

00:00:15.000 I had a great time with you last time.

00:00:17.000 It's good to see you, bud.

00:00:17.000 Thank you.

00:00:17.000 Good to see you, too.

00:00:18.000 Congratulations.

00:00:19.000 You were just showing me around the space.

00:00:20.000 Thank you.

00:00:20.000 Very cool.

00:00:21.000 Thank you.

00:00:21.000 I'm very excited for you.

00:00:23.000 I'm excited, too.

00:00:23.000 I bet.

00:00:24.000 Thanks, man.

00:00:24.000 Appreciate it.

00:00:25.000 Jamie's moving shit around. 0.99

00:00:26.000 What happened? 0.99

00:00:28.000 I was out of line.

00:00:30.000 So, welcome.

00:00:32.000 And how's Colin's last stand going?

00:00:34.000 It's good.

00:00:34.000 It's fun.

00:00:35.000 I always describe it.

00:00:37.000 It's not big.

00:00:37.000 It's just got its little slice of the internet, and it's attracted.

00:00:41.000 Videos do 20, 30, 40, 50,000 views.

00:00:44.000 That's a good spot.

00:00:45.000 That's a good place to be.

00:00:46.000 Yeah, I'm happy with it.

00:00:48.000 I have like 4,500 people on Patreon supporting me, and I don't serve ads on anything I do, so I'm just trying to make it organic and see how far I can take it, and then go from there.

00:00:57.000 Sam Harris does his entire podcast that way.

00:00:59.000 He doesn't have any ads, which I think is amazing.

00:01:02.000 Yeah, it's cool.

00:01:03.000 I worked at IGN for a long time, the video game site, and my old company, so we had ads, and I have no problem with them, but I was trying to just kind of say, I don't need more than what you're giving me.

00:01:14.000 This is plenty, and I'm doing fine, and so maybe I'll do ads on future products, but not with this.

00:01:20.000 Well, yeah, I mean, why not, right?

00:01:22.000 I mean, just, if you're enjoying it, I mean, yeah, you could do different products, you could do, I mean, different projects, rather, you could do it different ways.

00:01:29.000 Yep.

00:01:30.000 You know, it's interesting now to try to figure out, like, what's the best way for people to put their stuff out there.

00:01:36.000 Like, I know a lot of people, like, in the podcast world, some people use SoundCloud, some people use other things, some people just go straight to YouTube.

00:01:42.000 I mean, there's a lot of experimentation going on now.

00:01:46.000 Yeah, and I'm always fascinated by that particular thing about how I do a podcast now just on the side called Fireside Chats where I just have random people in to talk about random things.

00:01:55.000 And similar, but not nearly as good as your show.

00:01:58.000 And I'm always amazed that people are like, why don't you put this on YouTube?

00:02:02.000 And I'm like, you just want to stare at a static image on YouTube?

00:02:06.000 I don't even have it on video.

00:02:07.000 It's just about how people consume the content.

00:02:09.000 So maybe a spreadshot approach is probably the smartest idea.

00:02:12.000 Well, if you could hire someone to do images that represent the conversation, maybe that would be a reason to have it on YouTube, but I hear you.

00:02:19.000 People just get excited about a platform.

00:02:22.000 They get locked into a platform, and then they just digest everything in that platform, whether it's Snapchat or Instagram or YouTube.

00:02:31.000 It's weird.

00:02:32.000 Jamie and I have been talking about this a lot lately, about what What makes it through?

00:02:38.000 Like, how did YouTube become the only one where people upload videos?

00:02:43.000 That seems insane.

00:02:44.000 It seems like that seems so straightforward.

00:02:47.000 You have it so people can upload videos, you put ads on those videos, and that's it.

00:02:53.000 I mean, it seems like there would be hundreds of those sites.

00:02:56.000 Yeah, I think they were just first and it was ubiquitous quickly.

00:03:01.000 I find that with a lot of social media too.

00:03:04.000 Snapchat's really faltering now because Instagram's basically stolen its entire platform and it's all about these little monopolies that exist.

00:03:11.000 Monopolies for pictures, monopolies for video, monopoly for interacting with friends and family on Facebook and stuff like that.

00:03:17.000 There's no Facebook competitor.

00:03:19.000 No, no.

00:03:21.000 I mean, Facebook seems to me to be a more indulgent medium, though.

00:03:25.000 It seems like...

00:03:26.000 Like, I read some...

00:03:27.000 Like, sometimes I'll see people's Facebook posts, and I just see the first paragraph, and then I see how long it goes. 0.99

00:03:33.000 I'm like, fuck, reading that. 0.98

00:03:35.000 I just keep moving. 1.00

00:03:36.000 This is too much.

00:03:37.000 Yeah, it's like...

00:03:38.000 I find...

00:03:39.000 My girlfriend just deactivated her Facebook account, and I was like...

00:03:43.000 Yeah.

00:03:45.000 Yeah.

00:04:01.000 I use it because my Instagram posts directly to Twitter and to Facebook.

00:04:06.000 That's how I use it.

00:04:07.000 But it's interesting that it shows that in the amount of people that engage.

00:04:12.000 Like my Facebook has a fraction of what everything else has, and I think it's because I don't use it.

00:04:16.000 Yeah, I think algorithmically, the more you use it, probably the more it massages you to the top of a person's feed or whatever.

00:04:23.000 Because that's what's annoying about Facebook is you can't put anything in order.

00:04:25.000 You have no idea what you've seen already.

00:04:27.000 I was just talking to someone the other day.

00:04:28.000 I only have like 700 friends on there or whatever.

00:04:30.000 A lot of people from college that I might have had a class with or something.

00:04:33.000 And I'm like, why do the same 15 people just show up?

00:04:35.000 And I don't even interact with these people.

00:04:37.000 So I feel like I'm missing a ton of stuff.

00:04:39.000 And I still find Twitter is the most useful for me.

00:04:41.000 People love Facebook, though, for arguing. 0.99

00:04:43.000 They fucking love it, man. 0.98

00:04:44.000 I've gone over some political arguments that people have on Facebook, and it's like, Jesus, how do you have the time for this? 0.99

00:04:51.000 Don't you people have other things that you enjoy?

00:04:53.000 Yeah.

00:04:53.000 No.

00:04:54.000 There's something about that sort of tit-for-tat verbal exchange, like trying to one-up someone and trying to make a better point.

00:05:02.000 I feel like it's replaced sport for people.

00:05:06.000 For some folks.

00:05:07.000 I feel like it's a game in some sort of a way, like a text-based video game or something.

00:05:13.000 Yeah, like an old text adventure or something like that.

00:05:15.000 One interesting thing about Facebook that I think is worth noting is that it's typically real people with real names and real pictures, so at least they're putting themselves out there.

00:05:25.000 Yeah.

00:05:25.000 As opposed to Twitter and kind of the anonymous nature of that.

00:05:28.000 So I respect that for the most part on Facebook.

00:05:30.000 But again, I agree with you.

00:05:32.000 It's like no one's winning this argument.

00:05:33.000 It's just a repetitive, how many times am I going to see the same thing over and over again?

00:05:36.000 I've kind of just withdrawn from that entirely.

00:05:38.000 Yeah.

00:05:39.000 Well, you know, I wanted to talk to you about internet controversy because when we had you on the first time, it was kind of just after your whole thing had happened with this.

00:05:48.000 He had made this one, like, incredibly innocuous tweet.

00:05:52.000 It was like a day without woman or something like that silence like what was it?

00:05:59.000 It was a peace and quiet hashtag a day without a woman. 0.99

00:06:02.000 Yeah, I mean Which is like an Al Bundy joke maybe yeah, and but the thing is like if that happened today Nobody would give a shit. 0.99

00:06:10.000 It's weird. 0.97

00:06:11.000 It's like then like it was it was a Boiling controversy like the first bubbles Of just social media outrage, it seems like.

00:06:20.000 Or you were one of the first bubbles.

00:06:22.000 Right.

00:06:23.000 Like I explained to you originally, I feel like it was partially a political hit because of the industry I worked in and all that kind of stuff.

00:06:28.000 But also, like I was telling you before we started, the more I've had time to think, after all these things happened, I launched a new company, I was working 70 hours a week, I had no bandwidth to really think about what the hell happened.

00:06:40.000 The more I think about it, the angrier I actually get about how I... I had to go through that and watch other people also kind of go through similar things as the outrage machine just eats people and spits them out as they go along.

00:06:51.000 When you stop and think about what you actually said and what that actually caused, that actually caused you to stop working with people.

00:07:00.000 Yeah, like this one silly joke like they don't know you They don't know you know that one joke that one thing that you said is so awful and outrageous that all of our years of collaborating Working together trying to do projects trying to be creative having fun all the conversations we've had about life and about Humans and politics and men and women those are all out the window man.

00:07:25.000 You made a joke that I find Marginally offensive.

00:07:29.000 Maybe on a certain day, marginally offensive.

00:07:31.000 I don't even think it's offensive.

00:07:32.000 If it was a woman, if a woman said that, like, peace and quiet, a day without men, I would go, ha! 1.00

00:07:38.000 Yeah.

00:07:38.000 That's what I would go.

00:07:39.000 I'd go, ha!

00:07:40.000 And I'd keep moving.

00:07:40.000 And move on with your life?

00:07:41.000 The idea, like, oh, I gotta get this lady fired. 1.00

00:07:44.000 She's a terrible person.

00:07:46.000 The only thing that I can think about is that I was at least in a position where it didn't destroy me or whatever.

00:07:52.000 I actually am doing financially better and feel happier in what I'm doing now, so it kind of backfired on the people that were trying to Do whatever they were doing to me anyway, but I feel for the people that find themselves in similar situations that don't have some sort of internet clout or some sort of community that can rally around them and lift them up,

00:08:11.000 which is what my community did to me, which I'm so appreciative of.

00:08:14.000 So I just think about how it's just sad.

00:08:16.000 I don't know that I've ever been so offended by something someone has tweeted or even said that I went out of my way to make it personal and try to destroy them. 0.99

00:08:24.000 I'm not saying people don't do terrible shit. 0.99

00:08:26.000 It happens all the time. 0.99

00:08:27.000 We're seeing that play out, you know, with Harvey Weinstein and all these kinds of things.

00:08:30.000 Absolutely awful, really awful things.

00:08:32.000 And I feel like people are kind of being distracted by the shiny object in the corner when they're losing sight of what's important.

00:08:39.000 Well, today it feels like there's blood in the water.

00:08:42.000 I mean, it seems like there's so many people going after so many people.

00:08:47.000 It's just people are running around looking for targets.

00:08:49.000 The way I imagine, I imagine the internet and people on the internet being an angry mob running through the streets, frothing at the mouth, just looking for somewhere to point their gun.

00:09:01.000 I mean, that's really what it feels like.

00:09:03.000 It feels like there's definitely some real targets out there.

00:09:06.000 There's definitely some...

00:09:06.000 This Kevin Spacey thing is a...

00:09:08.000 It's a scary thing.

00:09:10.000 I mean apparently Rosie O'Donnell started tweeting that he had been doing this forever and that this is the tip of the iceberg and there's a bunch of boys that he went after.

00:09:21.000 I Don't know what's true.

00:09:22.000 What's not true.

00:09:23.000 I'm assuming but that's that's real.

00:09:26.000 That's a real horrible thing.

00:09:27.000 That's not a joke It's not someone with an innocuous maybe off-color joke.

00:09:32.000 I mean this is like real stuff, right?

00:09:35.000 so I think The good part is all this awful behavior, predatory, evil, you know, all the Harvey Weinstein and whatever else.

00:09:46.000 There's probably a million other ones, right?

00:09:48.000 That stuff's going to get exposed.

00:09:50.000 But it seems like the negative part about it is that people are looking for targets.

00:09:58.000 Well, that's what kind of scares me.

00:09:59.000 I don't know if you're a Black Mirror fan, but I was...

00:10:01.000 Well, I've only watched one episode, but I loved it.

00:10:03.000 Okay, yeah.

00:10:04.000 I highly recommend you.

00:10:05.000 You'll get lost in it.

00:10:06.000 I watched two episodes.

00:10:06.000 I love that show, and what's going on now reminds me a little bit of a Black Mirror episode, where people, like you said, are targeting others.

00:10:15.000 And I feel like accusations are part of the process, are part of due process, really, that starts with the accusation.

00:10:22.000 But I feel like people aren't...

00:10:24.000 And I'm not defending anything that anyone's done, but I feel like everyone just assumes guilt no matter what.

00:10:29.000 And it scares me because now we're getting to the point where anyone can accuse someone of anything at all.

00:10:34.000 And they're automatically guilty and they're automatically shamed.

00:10:37.000 And I'm like, but aren't you curious what's true?

00:10:39.000 Maybe half or 75% of this is true, but certainly not all of this is true.

00:10:42.000 Certainly not all of these accusations are true.

00:10:44.000 The one thing that I was interested in is Mark Halperin, the political writer who was accused of things last week.

00:10:49.000 I didn't hear this one.

00:10:51.000 There's too many to keep up with.

00:10:53.000 Yeah, no, it's happening a lot.

00:10:54.000 Mark Halperin is a famous political writer.

00:10:56.000 He wrote Game Change and Double Down, those famous books about 2008 and 2012, with John Heilman, who's his partner.

00:11:02.000 He was on MSNBC and all this stuff.

00:11:04.000 And he was accused of some sexual harassment when he was at ABC News in the early 2000s.

00:11:09.000 And he came out and was basically like, I'm sorry for my behavior and all that kind of stuff.

00:11:13.000 And what I thought was interesting about it was that he was like, not all of these accusations are true.

00:11:18.000 But he kind of just then went on and apologized and did all this.

00:11:21.000 And I'm like, but I'm interested in, like, are you going to contest any of this?

00:11:24.000 Like, what is true and what isn't true?

00:11:25.000 Why aren't we interested in what is true and what isn't true? 1.00

00:11:27.000 Clearly you are a scumbag in some way. 0.99

00:11:29.000 But I am also curious in, are you going to defend yourself? 1.00

00:11:32.000 Are we in a situation where no one can defend themselves from these terrible accusations?

00:11:36.000 And it reminds me of a black mirror a lot.

00:11:37.000 What were the accusations?

00:11:39.000 He was basically accused of heavily hitting on women that were junior than him.

00:11:46.000 That were working with him?

00:11:47.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:11:48.000 I don't think any of them accused him of sexual assault or anything like that, but apparently he might have rubbed up against some women or did some things that are- But that kind of is sexual assault though, right?

00:11:57.000 Yeah, I assume so, but I guess what I'm saying is like... 0.99

00:11:59.000 If a guy rubs his dick on somebody, that's essentially sexual assault. 1.00

00:12:02.000 Sure. 1.00

00:12:02.000 I mean more like, I don't think they're accusing him of raping them or something. 1.00

00:12:05.000 Like something absolutely horrifying, horrific, you know.

00:12:09.000 And I'm like, well, clearly, you know, I liked him a lot.

00:12:11.000 And I'm like, well, I don't...

00:12:13.000 You know, you're clearly not a good person.

00:12:16.000 But I was also just interested in that dynamic of his statement where I was like, but what isn't true?

00:12:22.000 I'm curious what isn't true.

00:12:23.000 It almost suggests that everything is true.

00:12:26.000 But then you just never know any situation.

00:12:27.000 So I just kind of reserve judgment until more information is known about all these people.

00:12:32.000 And I don't want to jump in on it because I don't...

00:12:34.000 I don't even want to know.

00:12:36.000 I mean, unless it's people that are in my world.

00:12:38.000 I mean, at a certain point in time.

00:12:40.000 Look, I mean, I want to know about Kevin Spacey type situations or Harvey Weinstein type situations, but I think there's a lot of men that are in that position where they're a boss or they are, you know, the owner of a company and they have these people under them.

00:12:56.000 And these people behave in a certain way, almost like as if they are royalty.

00:13:02.000 And I think that's what Harvey Weinstein experienced.

00:13:05.000 Essentially, he was like the royalty of this enormous movie empire.

00:13:11.000 And we find that particularly offensive.

00:13:15.000 He's not just a creep trying to get laid.

00:13:18.000 He's a guy that was trying to hold that power over people and use it against them.

00:13:24.000 And then on top of that, he was physically forceful.

00:13:26.000 So you got your worst case scenarios.

00:13:28.000 And then you have guys that are just trying to get laid.

00:13:31.000 And you're like, okay.

00:13:32.000 How do you...

00:13:34.000 Are we demonizing aggressive heterosexuality?

00:13:39.000 Where does this go into sexual assault?

00:13:44.000 Rubbing up against someone, physically touching them when they don't want you to.

00:13:46.000 Well, that's sexual assault.

00:13:47.000 Sure.

00:13:48.000 But hitting on someone.

00:13:50.000 Hmm, that doesn't seem like sexual assault or anything.

00:13:53.000 It seems like someone just trying to get laid like where does it but then when someone's the boss you go, okay, but then you're not supposed to do that when you're a boss, right?

00:14:00.000 I was more I was very interested in the in the in the dynamic between what specifically with Harvey Weinstein And his people under him for many decades.

00:14:09.000 Yeah about I was trying to put myself in this position of like how does this stay quiet for so long even though there's a little rumblings like they talk about Seth MacFarlane's joke at some award show Kevin Spacey, too Yeah, and Family Guy.

00:14:21.000 Like a little kid was running away from...

00:14:23.000 So I was locked in Kevin Spacey's basement.

00:14:26.000 It's amazing that this stuff is kind of like an open secret, but still doesn't seep out or really...

00:14:31.000 It makes you think about the power dynamics and how fearful people are in these positions, because it's easy.

00:14:37.000 My initial instinct was like, why didn't anyone say anything?

00:14:39.000 It was similar to Bill Cosby's thing.

00:14:41.000 I'm like, why didn't anyone say anything?

00:14:42.000 But then you realize people were saying things.

00:14:44.000 They were being given hush money.

00:14:46.000 They were being shut up.

00:14:47.000 But these are really, really bad people.

00:14:48.000 But I agree with you that it...

00:14:50.000 I've never been an aggressive flirter, as it were.

00:14:54.000 I've always been very passive with women because I never really believed in myself that much and all that. 1.00

00:14:59.000 But I've known people that have been very flirtatious and all of that.

00:15:04.000 And I'm like, I wonder, what is the line there now?

00:15:06.000 And is it okay to be flirtatious, to call a woman beautiful at a bar or to do something like that?

00:15:12.000 As opposed to...

00:15:13.000 If a girl likes you... 0.99

00:15:16.000 That's the thing.

00:15:17.000 If you meet a girl at a bar, and the girl's like, Colin is a really cool guy.

00:15:22.000 God, I'm so into him.

00:15:23.000 And Colin's like, you're really beautiful.

00:15:25.000 And she's like, oh my god, thank you.

00:15:26.000 And the next thing you know, you guys are hanging out.

00:15:29.000 Or, you meet a girl at a bar, she doesn't want to have anything to do with you.

00:15:34.000 She's sober.

00:15:35.000 You're drinking.

00:15:36.000 Your breath smells.

00:15:37.000 And you're like, you're really beautiful.

00:15:38.000 And you're like, ew, gross. 1.00

00:15:40.000 Get the fuck away from me. 1.00

00:15:41.000 You know, it could be exactly the same attempt, but the person's just not into you, and you become a creep. 1.00

00:15:47.000 Right, exactly.

00:15:48.000 So I don't look at the situation now in 2017 on college campuses and all these things as desirable for anyone, because who the hell knows the rules of the landscape now?

00:16:00.000 I think a lot of it just comes down to mutual respect and all of that, you know?

00:16:03.000 Well, you know what I think it is, man?

00:16:04.000 I really think we're shifting culturally.

00:16:09.000 I think this is a big, gigantic shift, almost like an earthquake of consciousness.

00:16:14.000 I think that over the course of human history, we have slowly but surely become better to each other.

00:16:21.000 We had a photograph that we put up yesterday of an ad from 1911. It was a gum ad, and it was instructing a man how to go about kissing a woman.

00:16:35.000 And a lot of it was like, do not ask permission, look in her eyes, gaze dreamily.

00:16:41.000 It was really weird.

00:16:42.000 Wow.

00:16:43.000 Instructing him how to grab her face, how to lean down to kiss her.

00:16:48.000 It was very, very bizarre. 0.99

00:16:50.000 I was like, if you tried to put that ad out today, you would be fucking skewered publicly. 0.99

00:16:56.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:16:57.000 Yeah, I would say so.

00:16:58.000 They would come after you.

00:16:58.000 But there's the ad right there.

00:17:01.000 Do you know how to kiss a girl? 0.99

00:17:03.000 Then learn.

00:17:04.000 Stand facing her.

00:17:05.000 Do not tell her your intentions.

00:17:06.000 Do not ask permission to kiss her.

00:17:07.000 Do not tell her your intentions.

00:17:08.000 We went over this whole thing yesterday, so I won't go over it again.

00:17:11.000 That's funny.

00:17:12.000 What's the name of the gum again?

00:17:14.000 Common Sense...

00:17:15.000 What is it?

00:17:15.000 Yeah, Common Sense Gum Company.

00:17:17.000 The Common Sense Gum Company from 1911. And I think what's happening...

00:17:22.000 Right now, is this a really big shift?

00:17:27.000 And I think the beneficiaries of this big shift are going to be the next generation of kids that are growing up. 0.98

00:17:32.000 They're probably not going to have to deal with nearly as much shit. 0.98

00:17:36.000 And I'm absolutely not giving Bill Cosby any sort of fucking excuse at all, but I think that in Bill Cosby's day, I think a lot of men did that. 0.99

00:17:45.000 I think it was really common. 0.98

00:17:47.000 I mean, I don't think they thought anything of it.

00:17:49.000 Just like, you ever watch like an old Clint Eastwood movie when they slap women? 1.00

00:17:53.000 They just used to beat the shit out of women in those movies. 1.00

00:17:56.000 Times have changed. 0.98

00:17:58.000 And they're changing now, like today, at an unprecedented rate.

00:18:03.000 I think ultimately it's good.

00:18:05.000 Ultimately, everyone, when you catch people at like a good static state, like a good calm state, and they're not under duress and they're thinking clearly, and you would ask them, like, what's the best way to get along with other people?

00:18:21.000 Well, treat them fairly.

00:18:22.000 Treat them kindly.

00:18:23.000 Have good friends.

00:18:25.000 Just be nice.

00:18:26.000 Be nice to everybody.

00:18:27.000 Everybody would agree to that.

00:18:28.000 The problem is maybe they want something from you. 1.00

00:18:29.000 Like Colin wants to fuck the girl at the bar, but she's sober and Colin's got gross breath. 1.00

00:18:34.000 You know what I mean? 1.00

00:18:36.000 There's all sorts of extenuating circumstances that make people behave in really fucked up ways. 0.82

00:18:40.000 But the consequences of those circumstances or that behavior was minimized by power. 0.93

00:18:48.000 It was minimized by Like a guy like Harvey Weinstein, he could put these gals in movies. 1.00

00:18:54.000 Or a guy like Kevin Spacey, he was hitting on a 14-year-old and he doesn't know what to say.

00:18:58.000 All that stuff, that ability to squash, it minimized people.

00:19:05.000 It reminds me, too, not that I know anything deep about it, but I was just thinking about it in the shower this morning, actually.

00:19:10.000 It reminds me a lot of...

00:19:13.000 Michael Jackson, in the sense of, like, what was going on in the early and mid-90s with him and the accusations there.

00:19:17.000 And I'm like, was this...

00:19:18.000 I don't know if that's true or false.

00:19:19.000 I don't know what he's accused of or not.

00:19:20.000 People kind of, I think, treat him as if he was innocent.

00:19:22.000 Maybe he is.

00:19:23.000 I don't know.

00:19:23.000 But it reminds me of, like, there was, like, telltale signs of some sexual corruption in Hollywood and the music industry and the movie industry and all that some years ago.

00:19:33.000 That's kind of bubbled back to the surface with some big names.

00:19:35.000 So I just...

00:19:36.000 I agree with you.

00:19:36.000 Like, I just wish...

00:19:38.000 People just need to be good to each other and act normal and be respectful.

00:19:44.000 You don't find yourself in these terrible situations.

00:19:46.000 But then you see this desperation with Harvey Weinstein where you learn that he might have sexually assaulted or even raped a woman who then appears in a movie some years later because the gravity well around him is so strong that they have no choice.

00:19:58.000 So it's a very sad situation for those women as well.

00:20:01.000 It's a sad situation for humanity, right?

00:20:03.000 It's like, there's just certain things that people were able to get away with, you know?

00:20:11.000 Like, the Cosby thing to me is probably number one.

00:20:15.000 That's the number one worst one ever.

00:20:17.000 Because he represented this sort of like really moral, very ethical, you know, like doesn't swear on stage.

00:20:27.000 Like he's the last one that you would expect to be. 0.68

00:20:31.000 He's been described as the number one serial rapist of all time.

00:20:34.000 And you're like, wait, how is that possible? 0.85

00:20:38.000 It's incredible.

00:20:39.000 It's just a crazy, unfortunate, sad situation.

00:20:42.000 It ruins his whole legacy.

00:20:45.000 I haven't seen the Cosby show.

00:20:47.000 I don't even know if it's syndicated anymore since all the accusations came out.

00:20:50.000 But who could watch that now and just look past that?

00:20:53.000 Especially because a lot of that's contemporaneous to that show.

00:20:56.000 It's still on the air.

00:20:57.000 Well, I assume that they got, you know, their stuff pulled, their syndication pulled.

00:21:01.000 I would assume, right?

00:21:01.000 What about Fowl and Albert?

00:21:02.000 That would be weird, too, if that was still in the air.

00:21:05.000 Yeah, again, contemporaneous to a lot of his accusations, going back to, what was that original show that he did in the 60s?

00:21:12.000 Eye Spy?

00:21:12.000 Eye Spy, right.

00:21:13.000 Yeah, that was the first one, right?

00:21:15.000 Yeah, so it's, like, I think a lot of that's, like, 50 years worth of accusations. 0.99

00:21:20.000 Like, holy shit. 0.99

00:21:21.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:21:21.000 Hollywood was a different animal back then. 1.00

00:21:23.000 It's a different animal when people didn't have a voice, you know?

00:21:26.000 But do you, because you have some, you have a connect.

00:21:28.000 You were on TV and you do, you know, do you hear rumblings like this?

00:21:32.000 I mean, I'm not asking you to be specific, but do you hear this?

00:21:34.000 Well, I haven't been on TV in a long time, but I did hear the Cosby thing way back in the 90s.

00:21:39.000 I heard that when I was on the set of news radio.

00:21:42.000 I remember people talking about it.

00:21:43.000 But, and I had heard the Kevin Spacey thing, too.

00:21:46.000 But, you know, you don't...

00:21:48.000 You don't know.

00:21:49.000 It's not like, well, you should have gone to the press.

00:21:52.000 With what information?

00:21:54.000 Someone accused Rosie O'Donnell, because Rosie O'Donnell was talking about Kevin Spacey. 1.00

00:21:59.000 She's like, you're a sicko. 1.00

00:22:00.000 Everyone knew you were a sicko. 1.00

00:22:02.000 And so someone said, hold on a second. 0.99

00:22:03.000 So you're saying that you knew that he was like this and you didn't do anything about it?

00:22:08.000 And she said, well, there was always rumors, but no one had any evidence.

00:22:13.000 Until this actor came forth.

00:22:15.000 Is he an actor or a director?

00:22:17.000 I think he's a Broadway actor.

00:22:18.000 He's a Broadway actor. 1.00

00:22:21.000 Yeah, the whole thing's fucked. 0.99

00:22:23.000 He was in a television show, though. 0.99

00:22:24.000 He was a Broadway actor with Kevin Spacey in 19-whatever-the-hell-it-was when this happened 30 years ago.

00:22:31.000 What do you think about the whole misdirection thing in his statement, too, about being like... 0.86

00:22:34.000 Crazy.

00:22:34.000 Weird, right?

00:22:35.000 Sneaky.

00:22:36.000 Yeah.

00:22:36.000 Not good.

00:22:37.000 Yeah, I think very, very transparent.

00:22:39.000 Very transparent.

00:22:41.000 Deflecting.

00:22:41.000 Now I live my life as a gay man.

00:22:42.000 Hey, fuckface. 1.00

00:22:43.000 Nobody asked you. 1.00

00:22:44.000 Did you try to rape a kid? 0.99

00:22:45.000 Yeah, it was very weird. 0.99

00:22:47.000 I don't know why he decided to do that.

00:22:49.000 Well, I think he's probably panicking, you know?

00:22:52.000 I mean, and ultimately, he probably should be.

00:22:57.000 Yeah, I would assume so, especially because maybe there are more accusations.

00:23:00.000 And then the whole weird thing with Netflix with House of Cards, where they were like, this is going to be the last season.

00:23:04.000 Now apparently they stopped production.

00:23:05.000 Oh, so they stopped it completely?

00:23:07.000 That's what Jamie was saying.

00:23:07.000 Oh, interesting.

00:23:08.000 Yeah, like, this morning I'll shuffle it up.

00:23:11.000 Okay.

00:23:11.000 Yeah, because I thought that was interesting specifically because they apparently had already announced that it was the last season anyway, like in the summer, so they're making it seem like they're reacting to it.

00:23:18.000 So everyone's just playing the PR game now, you know?

00:23:21.000 I wonder.

00:23:22.000 Yeah, I don't know.

00:23:23.000 Because they made an announcement pretty quickly.

00:23:25.000 Maybe they made an announcement sort of just to let everybody know, you know, yeah, it is the last season, but...

00:23:32.000 Okay, here it goes.

00:23:33.000 Production on Netflix special series suspended indefinitely following Kevin Spacey allegations...

00:23:40.000 Is it allegation or S? Is this plural?

00:23:44.000 Yeah, is there a second or third allegation?

00:23:46.000 I might have missed it.

00:23:47.000 Also, he has a Gore Vidal movie that they're filming as well.

00:23:52.000 Which will be interesting.

00:23:53.000 It's an interesting guy, Gore Vidal.

00:23:55.000 Yeah.

00:23:56.000 Oh, man. 0.99

00:23:56.000 You know what's a great fucking film? 0.99

00:23:59.000 Gore Vidal and... 0.99

00:24:01.000 Who's the super conservative guy?

00:24:03.000 William F. Buckley.

00:24:04.000 They had a series of debates in 1960...

00:24:08.000 I want to say 68. And they televised them.

00:24:11.000 And it...

00:24:12.000 It was like a huge boom to whatever network it was.

00:24:16.000 ABC, I believe it was.

00:24:18.000 And they made a documentary about these two going back and forth with each other.

00:24:22.000 It's brilliant.

00:24:23.000 It's amazing.

00:24:24.000 And it's so interesting to see their minds interacting with each other.

00:24:29.000 Wasn't that the debate series where William F. Buckley said something super homophobic?

00:24:33.000 Yeah, yeah. 1.00

00:24:34.000 I think he called him a faggot. 1.00

00:24:36.000 Yeah, on network television. 1.00

00:24:38.000 Yeah, and he said he would knock him out.

00:24:42.000 He'd said something like, you'll stay plastered or something like that.

00:24:46.000 I forget his statement, but Gore Vidal said something to William F. Buckley that like really pushed his button.

00:24:54.000 I don't remember what he said to him.

00:24:57.000 Because I remember watching and being like, oh my god.

00:24:59.000 But it was devastating to William F. Buckley. 0.99

00:25:01.000 It was like pretty much the end of his being taken seriously because people realize, well, he's kind of a fool. 0.99

00:25:07.000 And his ego and his mind is just not within his control and just got out of hand. 0.99

00:25:12.000 And Gore Vidal just sort of sat there while he said it.

00:25:15.000 Right.

00:25:16.000 Yeah, Gore Vidal's an interesting...

00:25:17.000 My exposure to him initially was like he wrote, I think, some historical fiction about some various things. 1.00

00:25:23.000 Now listen, you queer, stop calling me a crypto-Nazi or I'll sock you in your goddamn face and you'll stay plastered. 1.00

00:25:30.000 Whoa. 1.00

00:25:31.000 Yeah, it's like incredible to... 0.95

00:25:32.000 Listen, you queer, stop calling me a crypto-Nazi. 0.94

00:25:36.000 Whoa. 0.99

00:25:39.000 I'm concerned. 0.87

00:25:39.000 The only pro or crypto Nazi I can think of is yourself. 0.87

00:25:45.000 Some people were calling each other Nazis even way back after, you know, right after World War II. Yeah, it's a weird one, right?

00:25:51.000 It's like, the problem is, like, what we saw in Charlottesville is like, hey, look, guys, there's real Nazis.

00:25:58.000 Like, don't call someone a Nazi because they voted for Trump, because they think that, you know, right-wing conservative values are being diminished in this country.

00:26:07.000 Don't call them a Nazi for that.

00:26:08.000 It just bothers me.

00:26:09.000 The same thing with the word fascist, where I'm like, you don't even really understand what these words mean, a lot of you.

00:26:14.000 These words aren't only loaded, they have definitions, and I don't know what the...

00:26:18.000 It's like when everyone says we live in a fascist state in America today, and I'm like, I don't think so.

00:26:22.000 The courts seem to be working fine, the Congress doesn't do anything, but it's there.

00:26:25.000 Well, if you lived in a fascist state, then there wouldn't be an investigation against Trump right now.

00:26:30.000 Exactly.

00:26:30.000 That's leading to indictments.

00:26:31.000 Exactly, in which he actually has the power to fire the person doing the investigation.

00:26:34.000 So it's...

00:26:35.000 You know, I'm not saying we're in an ideal situation right now, but people throwing around these words very loosely need to learn a little bit more about Weimar Republic and the Nazis coming to power in 33 and what that actually looks like, what fascism actually looks like in Italy, what it looks like in Germany.

00:26:48.000 And they have no idea.

00:26:49.000 Or a lot of some people do, but most don't.

00:26:51.000 And they're just throwing these words around and they mean something.

00:26:54.000 Well, there's a lot of confusion today in terms of, like, why free speech is important.

00:26:59.000 And one of the reasons why free speech is important is because you don't get to decide what is correct.

00:27:04.000 It has to be debated.

00:27:05.000 You know, there was a...

00:27:08.000 I forget who said that.

00:27:10.000 It was really recent.

00:27:12.000 We talked about it yesterday.

00:27:14.000 Oh, it was that guy, the Yale professor that was on Sam Harris' show.

00:27:18.000 He had a perfect statement about the guy who got in trouble for his wife, the Greek fellow. 0.55

00:27:25.000 His wife had defended offensive Halloween costumes and the kids went crazy and undressed him in public.

00:27:31.000 He said the answer to hate speech is not no speech, it's better speech.

00:27:36.000 And that's such a great statement.

00:27:38.000 Yeah, that's absolutely true.

00:27:39.000 It's absolutely true. 0.88

00:27:41.000 So, like, all these kids that are trying to shut down conservative speakers on campus, and then by shutting them down, they're calling them white supremacists, Nazis, and using these things for guys like Ben Shapiro, which I think is, like, patently ridiculous. 0.98

00:27:54.000 Yeah, the Jewish man is the Nazi? 0.99

00:27:56.000 The Jewish man is the Nazi. 1.00

00:27:57.000 And a white supremacist as well, which is just... 1.00

00:28:00.000 Because he quotes statistics about minority crime.

00:28:05.000 You know, those statistics, I feel like, are pretty misleading in some ways because there's a lot of factors that lead to these people being in these situations where there's high crime rates in these communities and it has nothing to do with, you know, hey, you need to pull yourself up by your bootstraps, which is like a really common way of looking at it.

00:28:22.000 It has to do with the world that they were born into.

00:28:26.000 Yeah, socioeconomically, it's a different world.

00:28:28.000 Yeah, and they're surrounded by the momentum of crime.

00:28:31.000 They're surrounded by the momentum of violence and abuse and to just expect them to escape that because there are examples of people that have done it in the past.

00:28:41.000 Well, you can't apply that sort of logic, I don't think.

00:28:44.000 I think that's disingenuous. 1.00

00:28:47.000 To call him a Nazi or a white supremacist, I think, is fucking ridiculous. 1.00

00:28:50.000 Well, that's just such a... 1.00

00:28:51.000 It's just used pejoratively without historical context.

00:28:54.000 It's crazy.

00:28:55.000 It's exactly what it is, because it reminds me a little bit...

00:28:57.000 It's different in the context, but it reminds me a little bit of when Bernie Sanders was running in the primary, and people would be like, this is...

00:29:03.000 Look at what socialism has given you.

00:29:05.000 Right.

00:29:05.000 And look at the roads.

00:29:06.000 And I'm like, the roads are not...

00:29:07.000 Roads aren't socialist.

00:29:09.000 The military's not socialist.

00:29:10.000 Streetlights aren't socialist.

00:29:12.000 The government spending money is not what socialism means.

00:29:14.000 So if that's what you think the definition means, then you're wrong.

00:29:17.000 And the same thing with now Nazism and fascism. 0.62

00:29:19.000 Like, look at all the parallels between Nazi Germany and the United States.

00:29:23.000 And I'm like, I couldn't...

00:29:24.000 I'm a student of history.

00:29:24.000 I don't know everything, but...

00:29:26.000 I don't see literally one parallel between the United States right now and Nazi Germany, not even one.

00:29:31.000 Yeah, we're not coming off a war.

00:29:32.000 We lost.

00:29:33.000 We're not, you know, a devastated and humiliated nation.

00:29:36.000 Yeah, the stab in the back, hyperinflation, you know, like this charismatic man who's in prison for a while writes this manifesto, tries to actually throw a coup in the mid-20s, fails.

00:29:46.000 Like, all of these, like, what parallel are you talking about?

00:29:50.000 Yeah.

00:29:51.000 I just feel like people are playing fast and loose with these words that they mean something.

00:29:55.000 These words mean something.

00:29:56.000 So if you're going to call someone a fascist, find the fascist.

00:29:58.000 And like you said, there are Nazis in American culture, unfortunately.

00:30:01.000 But fortunately, because of our freedom of expression, they have the right to exist.

00:30:04.000 And I think that by lumping in anyone that voted for Trump, for instance, as a Nazi, you're just making them look bigger.

00:30:10.000 That actually just benefits them. 0.97

00:30:12.000 They're irrelevant.

00:30:13.000 The KKK is irrelevant.

00:30:14.000 6,000 members, maybe, in a country of 325 million people.

00:30:18.000 How many people identify as neo-Nazi, really?

00:30:21.000 Maybe 10,000 or less?

00:30:23.000 When you're thinking about 350 million people, it's a very small number.

00:30:27.000 It's infinitesimal.

00:30:28.000 It's actually irrelevant.

00:30:29.000 Completely irrelevant. 0.98

00:30:30.000 But, if you're a black guy, and they're all coming after you on your Facebook page... 0.98

00:30:34.000 Then it looks real. 0.98

00:30:35.000 Then it looks real.

00:30:36.000 And it is, that kind of badgering and that kind of harassment is real and it's terrible.

00:30:40.000 No one justifies that, but I'm so sick of the A history. 0.99

00:30:43.000 Like, people suddenly are experts.

00:30:46.000 It reminds me of on Columbus Day, I tweeted out and it got tweeted a bunch, I thought it was funny, where people were tweeting about Columbus and all this, I'm like, suddenly everyone's an expert now in the age of exploration today.

00:30:54.000 Now everyone knows everything about the age of exploration, just like everyone knew everything about the rise of Nazism and the Weimar Republic, and just like everyone knew about the, you know, socialism and all.

00:31:03.000 I'm like...

00:31:05.000 Stop.

00:31:05.000 Well, I posted this flag behind me, and a company called Iron Mountain Designs creates it, and it's a veteran-owned company, and they make these pretty cool flags, very cool flags, made out of metal, but it has a George Washington quote on the back.

00:31:21.000 And I put it up on Instagram with the photo of the flag, photo of the logo of the company, like three different pictures on Instagram in a row.

00:31:28.000 You know how you do that, where one post can have three images?

00:31:31.000 And one of them was a quote from George Washington. 0.99

00:31:34.000 And the number of fucking geniuses, George Washington owned slaves. 0.99

00:31:38.000 Like, yeah, he's an honest man who owned slaves. 0.99

00:31:40.000 And they just kept rattling on about the horrors of George Washington as if, okay.

00:31:46.000 Yep, he did.

00:31:48.000 Yeah, but this is a quote by a man who lived hundreds and hundreds of years ago, and this is what he said.

00:31:54.000 You know, you want to diminish his entire, you know, contribution to human culture because he did something horrible back then when people were doing horrible things.

00:32:05.000 You're right, he did own slaves, but I think it's a part of a very long conversation about what a human being was, you know, back then.

00:32:14.000 Yeah.

00:32:14.000 Yeah, it goes back to the idea of historical relativism, that you can judge them based on a 21st century model, but George Washington died in 1799, so this is a man that didn't even see the 19th century, nonetheless the 20th, nonetheless the 21st, has no idea.

00:32:27.000 He was a southern planter.

00:32:29.000 Four of the first five presidents of the United States were southern planters that owned slaves.

00:32:33.000 This wasn't a totally...

00:32:35.000 Uncommon things.

00:32:36.000 So I'm not justifying it.

00:32:38.000 There were absolutely abolitionists among the founders.

00:32:40.000 There were absolutely abolitionists during the revolution and black people fought for the for the Continental Army.

00:32:45.000 But yeah, people judging based on these things, I'm like, that's fine.

00:32:48.000 But if you want to take that to its natural conclusion, you're going to find lots of problems with lots of people.

00:32:53.000 Even closer to us in history than than George Washington and what's funny about that is now they really are going after I was reading it just tangentially I didn't see it all but people are starting to now go after George Washington plaques or George Washington statues and I feel kind of bad about that in the sense that I was all for removing The Confederate statues and putting them in places where they made sense.

00:33:11.000 So take the Jefferson Davis statue, put it in Gettysburg or whatever the case might be, put it in a museum.

00:33:16.000 I don't think they should be melted down and destroyed.

00:33:18.000 But people were like, the next logical step is they're going to go after the founders.

00:33:21.000 And I was like, no way.

00:33:23.000 No one's going to let that happen.

00:33:24.000 And I was wrong.

00:33:25.000 They went after them immediately.

00:33:27.000 So I feel a little bit guilty about that in the sense that...

00:33:30.000 I don't think we should be celebrating Confederate history, but we should absolutely be celebrating American history, even the complicated American history.

00:33:37.000 Well, even if it's not celebrating it, it's recognizing it and understanding it.

00:33:41.000 I mean, the Confederate war, the Civil War rather, did happen.

00:33:45.000 It's a real historical fact and it should be studied.

00:33:52.000 Right.

00:34:03.000 That's a fact.

00:34:08.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:34:09.000 So to diminish that, that's not good either. 0.92

00:34:12.000 But to try to sweep it under the rug and smash all the statues, like, no, have that statue up so people can understand what the fuck that is. 0.74

00:34:20.000 And if someone is going to celebrate that statue, you know, the South's going to do it again, we're going to rise again, they can do that, you know, if that's their thing. 0.97

00:34:29.000 They can do that. 1.00

00:34:29.000 I mean, we can't stop them from thinking stupid. 1.00

00:34:31.000 Yeah, and I think that I agree with you in the sense that it's worth, it just, it happened, we remember it, and it has always, the gray and blue have always been part of our culture since the Civil War ended in 1865, and especially since Reconstruction ended in 1877. Many people don't even know what you're saying. 0.97

00:34:47.000 The gray and blue?

00:34:48.000 Yeah, the uniforms of the different sides.

00:34:52.000 You know, when Reconstruction ended in 1877 and our occupation of the South ended and then Jim Crow became law and there was, you know, institutional segregation, this was something that was always a complicated point of celebration.

00:35:04.000 You know, I've always been, you know, I've always been really kind of curious and really more militant about why these people actually got away with what they did.

00:35:14.000 And I understand, you know, the 10% plan, which, do you know anything about that?

00:35:19.000 The idea that Lincoln only made, or actually really Andrew Johnson only made 10% of people in the southern states basically pledge allegiance in order for the states to come back in.

00:35:26.000 They didn't execute anyone that, you know, or even really try them.

00:35:30.000 You know, Jefferson Davis Stonewall Jackson didn't survive, but Robert E. Lee and all these other guys just got away with it and actually lived pretty prosperous lives afterwards.

00:35:37.000 So there's always been this really complicated mix of remembrance that these people down there were heroes, and we don't have to support that.

00:35:42.000 I certainly don't support that, but it goes way further back than our contemporary culture, and we can't just smash it into oblivion and think you're going to remove that.

00:35:50.000 The heritage of the stars and bars and all that from what happened.

00:35:53.000 I think that the problem is people think that you're celebrating the Confederate Army when you have a statue up.

00:35:58.000 And in some ways, it seems like you are, right?

00:36:01.000 Because the statue is 15 feet tall, and he's got a sword in his hand, and he's on a horse, and he's marching forward.

00:36:07.000 And people look at it as if it's celebrating something that's a horrible part of human culture.

00:36:14.000 I mean, I remember going to Richmond, Virginia for the first time.

00:36:17.000 A lot of my family lives down there now, and they have this thing called Monument Row or whatever, where it's like Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee and all that.

00:36:24.000 And then they actually put Arthur Ashe at the end to make it seem like it's not racist anymore, which I always thought was weird.

00:36:29.000 They did that in the 70s or 80s.

00:36:31.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:36:32.000 So there's just like a black guy at the end of it. 0.95

00:36:33.000 It's like, this isn't racist at all. 0.95

00:36:35.000 And it's a bonus that he died of AIDS. Yeah.

00:36:38.000 Yeah, so we have a lot of pro-HIV culture and all that.

00:36:44.000 But I remember being really confused when I was a kid, being like, why are these statues here?

00:36:48.000 This doesn't make any sense.

00:36:49.000 And I agree that they shouldn't be in those places of reverence.

00:36:53.000 Because beyond the slavery issue, and I agree with you, slavery was the reason the Confederacy... 0.84

00:36:59.000 Yeah.

00:37:20.000 So I have no problem with that.

00:37:22.000 But I was so tragically wrong about the slippery slope that we were finding ourselves on.

00:37:27.000 Because I thought people would see more that like, yes, Thomas Jefferson was a complicated man, but also an immensely important person to our society.

00:37:35.000 But people aren't seeing it that way.

00:37:37.000 And I will fight more vociferously to protect those guys than I did the Confederate officers.

00:37:42.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:37:43.000 Even though those guys did own slaves too, right?

00:37:45.000 I mean, it is all weird when you're talking about slave ownership.

00:37:49.000 You know, I did this thing this morning.

00:37:51.000 My kids' school, they have this great pumpkin day and all the little kids are on stage and they're...

00:37:55.000 They have this little play that they act out.

00:37:57.000 One of the things they were talking about, the smell of applewood bacon, and mmm, and everybody's like, oh, the smell of applewood bacon.

00:38:05.000 And all I could think of, because yesterday we were talking about factory farming and about this Glenn Greenwald article, where this FBI investigation to these two people that stole these pigs from this factory farm revealed this...

00:38:22.000 Federal cover-up of these horrific conditions in factory farms and I was thinking of like one day we're gonna look at like factory farming And the horrific nature of what they do to these animals, especially pigs.

00:38:36.000 These really intelligent animals. 1.00

00:38:38.000 They stuff them into these boxes and make them live in their own shit. 1.00

00:38:41.000 And there's little corpses of piglets around them. 1.00

00:38:43.000 It was really hard.

00:38:44.000 The article in the photos were really hard to look at.

00:38:46.000 And I was thinking while I was watching this little kid's play today, I was like, one day we're going to look back at this mention of bacon. 0.97

00:38:55.000 And we're gonna think, like, how fucked up were people that they thought it was okay to shove these little animals into these crates and make them live in their own shit just so you could get bacon off of them? 0.99

00:39:07.000 Right. 1.00

00:39:08.000 But we've just sort of accepted that.

00:39:09.000 It's a part of our culture.

00:39:11.000 And it's not a valid comparison to slavery, but it's also, it's not an ideal way for a conscious and evolving species like the human race to behave.

00:39:21.000 It's not a good way for us to rationalize.

00:39:24.000 And I was looking at that today and I was thinking, how many more of these things...

00:39:28.000 I mean, I think we're seeing that with things like the Harvey Weinstein allegations and this outrage that's coming forth.

00:39:38.000 I think we're seeing it with a lot of the aspects of our society that's getting exposed in a way that never got exposed before.

00:39:45.000 But I think we're also seeing it...

00:39:47.000 I mean, in my mind, we were seeing it with this talk of bacon.

00:39:51.000 I was like, you know, look, bacon is delicious. 0.99

00:39:54.000 Absolutely, but where the fuck's that bacon coming from, you know? 0.96

00:39:57.000 Are you making sure you're getting free-range bacon from, you know, very moral and ethical farming practices, or are you just getting bacon? 0.98

00:40:06.000 Yeah.

00:40:06.000 Yeah, it's actually very thought-provoking what you're saying because I've always found the factory farming, not that I'm an expert in it at all, I'm not, but the argument to be really interesting because it's like there's an opportunity cost.

00:40:17.000 The way we treat these animals means food is very cheap.

00:40:20.000 Way cheap.

00:40:21.000 Meat is incredibly cheap in the United States compared to almost anywhere else in the world.

00:40:24.000 And produce is too.

00:40:26.000 Because of that, people used to spend a third of their income before World War II on food and now they spend less than a tenth of their money on food.

00:40:32.000 So there's It's amazing.

00:40:33.000 So we've made food way cheaper, but you're right, because you could make the same argument for slavery in the sense that, well, look at all the economic benefits.

00:40:43.000 It kind of turned a blind eye to it, so you actually kind of Kind of changed my mind on it a little bit, because I've always been of the mind where, like, free-range eggs, free-range animals, that's great if you can afford that, but I don't begrudge the poor or middle-class or working-class family from going and buying their ground beef from Vons.

00:40:58.000 Yeah, well, if you're poor, you've got to get by.

00:41:00.000 You know, there's that, right?

00:41:02.000 And you're in a system that you didn't design, you didn't create, you're in there, and you're just trying to get by.

00:41:08.000 I understand that.

00:41:09.000 But what I'm just saying as a whole, as a culture, to just openly accept factory farming and to not think of it as a horrific ethical and moral injustice.

00:41:20.000 I mean, it really is.

00:41:22.000 This is coming from someone who eats meat, right?

00:41:25.000 Obviously, the vegan argument would be, well, you're complicit in it, and you're also complicit in a bunch of other horrific crimes against animals.

00:41:33.000 I think that what we're looking at, though, is an awakening and sort of an understanding of our impact.

00:41:40.000 Like, physically, our impact on this, but mentally, the way we think about things, the way we even think about ourselves.

00:41:46.000 If you know that your bacon is coming from an animal that was tortured and shoved into a cage, and you buy it anyway.

00:41:56.000 You know, what does that do to your mind?

00:41:58.000 Yeah, it's interesting.

00:41:59.000 It's sort of a...

00:42:00.000 It's a conundrum.

00:42:02.000 You know, like, you obviously hunt and stuff like that, but when you buy meat, do you go out of your way to make sure that it's...

00:42:07.000 I buy almost no meat.

00:42:08.000 So all that you eat is typically something...

00:42:11.000 Now, it's taken a few years to do it, but now, I mean, I shot two elk this year, and elk is...

00:42:17.000 They're close to a thousand pounds of hundreds of pounds of meat.

00:42:22.000 I have two commercial freezers here.

00:42:23.000 I have two in my garage at home.

00:42:25.000 I give meat out to my friends.

00:42:27.000 I eat elk four nights a week.

00:42:30.000 When I go out to dinner, though, I do eat steak.

00:42:33.000 If I go out to dinner at some restaurant, I don't ask where I came from. 0.98

00:42:36.000 In that way, I'm a hypocrite.

00:42:39.000 No, not necessarily.

00:42:40.000 I mean, I think striving is important, right?

00:42:42.000 You can't always be perfect, but being better, I think.

00:42:45.000 If everyone was better, as opposed to being perfect, then the situation would be better.

00:42:48.000 So I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

00:42:51.000 There's an economic reality.

00:42:53.000 I can take the time off.

00:42:54.000 I can take two weeks off out of the year because I went on two elk hunts.

00:43:00.000 I've been on four hunts this year and three of them I was successful and one of them I got an axis deer which is also like 100 pounds of meat and so That's most of what I eat.

00:43:13.000 But most people don't have time to take three weeks off a year.

00:43:16.000 And you also have to have the time to practice and you have to know people.

00:43:22.000 It's a lot of good fortune on my side to be able to do something like this.

00:43:26.000 But it's also a concerted effort and becoming obsessed with the idea behind it of doing that.

00:43:33.000 It becomes a different thing.

00:43:35.000 Food is just a different thing.

00:43:36.000 If you grow tomatoes in your garden, that food becomes a different thing.

00:43:40.000 Yeah, it's like almost spiritual in a way.

00:43:41.000 Like a connection to it.

00:43:43.000 It's an overused word.

00:43:44.000 Spiritual is kind of a word that's sort of been hijacked.

00:43:47.000 Sure.

00:43:47.000 But yeah.

00:43:48.000 Like Nazism? 0.88

00:43:49.000 Yeah, like Nazism. 0.89

00:43:50.000 There's a lot of words that have been hijacked. 1.00

00:43:52.000 The word spirituality is really hijacked by morons. 0.99

00:43:55.000 You know, as someone says, I'm really spiritual, I see unfortunate tattoos and wooden beads and nutty talk, you know, Reiki healers. 1.00

00:44:05.000 Was that what they call them?

00:44:06.000 Reiki?

00:44:06.000 I don't know.

00:44:07.000 Yeah.

00:44:07.000 You know those people that think they could heal you by rubbing their hands above your skin without touching you?

00:44:13.000 Is that Reiki?

00:44:14.000 Is that what they call it?

00:44:15.000 Yeah.

00:44:16.000 But yeah, there's a completion of the cycle.

00:44:23.000 In lieu of a better word.

00:44:25.000 I grow food in my backyard, and I grow plants and vegetables, and when I eat them, it just feels like some sort of a completion, like it feels good.

00:44:37.000 Whereas it just feels like a good salad if I get it at a store.

00:44:40.000 Right.

00:44:41.000 Well, it's interesting.

00:44:43.000 You're almost subsistence living in a way because you're hunting your own meat and you're growing some of your own produce.

00:44:48.000 It's pretty cool.

00:44:49.000 But I wonder...

00:44:51.000 I need the grid for electricity.

00:44:54.000 Someone's got to build the bows and the arrows I buy from a manufacturer.

00:44:58.000 You're not whittling the wood yet yourself.

00:44:59.000 They have very strict tolerances.

00:45:01.000 It's sort of subsistence, but there's all these companies that are involved behind creating the materials that you use to...

00:45:08.000 So it's like capitalism slash subsistence.

00:45:12.000 But it's interesting because it's the point I made earlier.

00:45:16.000 You're further along the path of sustainability or further along the path of some sort of righteousness in the way animals are treated and all that kind of stuff than a lot of people are.

00:45:24.000 So it's a step in the right direction, right?

00:45:26.000 I just wonder if people, just to play devil's advocate, again, the working class family at the median household income of $40,000 a year, If we got rid of some of these animal practices, which are abhorrent, but if we got rid of them, are they willing to pay $13 or $14 a pound for their beef? 0.97

00:45:41.000 They probably couldn't afford it.

00:45:43.000 That's a real problem.

00:45:44.000 I mean, it's absolutely a real problem.

00:45:46.000 And I think that there's a lot of people that don't even take it into consideration.

00:45:52.000 I mean, that's probably the biggest problem, that we've made this system, and everybody was born into this system, you know, obviously we didn't create it, but we're born into this system, and it took us until we were probably like, I didn't even know what a factory farm was until I was like 30. I'd never even heard of it.

00:46:09.000 And then you hear about factory farming, and you go, what is that?

00:46:12.000 And you go, oh, these animals, they're all stuffed together, and you're like, what?

00:46:15.000 I thought farms were like animals roamed around. 0.99

00:46:18.000 Like, I don't know what the fuck. 0.98

00:46:19.000 I never even thought about it. 0.99

00:46:21.000 Yeah, it's horrific.

00:46:22.000 I remember in the late 90s on TV, like on public access or on like...

00:46:25.000 I think it was just on public access.

00:46:26.000 You would see these like guerrilla filming sessions that these guys would go to these farms and like break in and like take all these pictures and it was like for some animal rights activist group or whatever.

00:46:35.000 And I was always familiar with it.

00:46:36.000 I just never...

00:46:37.000 I mean, I'm guilty of saying like I never really...

00:46:39.000 Thought about it too deeply beyond that, sadly, because I thought about the economic realities of it, where I'm like, this is a terrible thing, and we can fix it, but we just have to have a conversation as a society of what that's going to mean for food, because the exact inverse has happened with produce, where we've figured out ways to really dramatically alter seedlings,

00:46:58.000 and I was just reading about Norman Borlaug, who won a Nobel Peace Prize for what he did to wheat, making wheat.

00:47:05.000 Golden wheat.

00:47:06.000 I'm sorry?

00:47:06.000 Golden wheat, right?

00:47:07.000 I think that's what it is, yeah.

00:47:08.000 Higher protein.

00:47:10.000 Yeah, and like a higher yield, but the stock wouldn't collapse and all that.

00:47:13.000 And he's apparently responsible for, you know, like, there used to be these doomsday prophecies in the 60s and 70s.

00:47:19.000 People forget that Earth Day.

00:47:20.000 I'm thinking of golden rice.

00:47:21.000 Oh, I'm sorry.

00:47:22.000 Different things, sorry.

00:47:22.000 It's okay.

00:47:24.000 People look back at the original Earth Day, I think in 1970, and they often talk about some of the prognostications of what's happening to the Earth and all that today.

00:47:32.000 But a lot of people lost sight of the fact that a lot of what people were talking about then was that we were going to die of famine.

00:47:38.000 That the Earth's population was growing way too quickly and that they would have these guesses by the late 70s, early 80s.

00:47:44.000 You can go read it.

00:47:44.000 It's fascinating.

00:47:45.000 They would be like, by 1985, like, a billion people are going to die of starvation because we can't feed everyone and all these kinds of things.

00:47:51.000 That's what they were originally talking about.

00:47:52.000 So there's been these pioneering heroes in agriculture that have figured it out, that have these high-yield crops and all that.

00:48:19.000 Right.

00:48:20.000 Does it suggest that we have to be more vegan, more vegetarian, all those kinds of things?

00:48:24.000 I don't know if that's the answer.

00:48:26.000 I think we have to have a complicated conversation.

00:48:28.000 And maybe it comes down to this idea of cloning meat or whatever they're doing, like making meat and process these weird chemical processes to make beef that's indistinguishable from real beef.

00:48:36.000 I mean, that's fine.

00:48:37.000 If it tastes good, I'm good.

00:48:38.000 I think that's probably what's going to happen.

00:48:40.000 I think it's probably going to be like these headless cows that you could just grow in a lab and just slice chunks off of them or something.

00:48:47.000 I mean, I don't know how they're doing this meat thing.

00:48:49.000 I don't really know either, and I'm sure it brings up a whole new slew of bioethical questions, too.

00:48:52.000 Not just that, also probably health issues.

00:48:56.000 Who's going to be the first person to live 10 years off of that bio meat before they figure out it causes some inoperable colon cancer?

00:49:02.000 Right.

00:49:03.000 Because your body doesn't know how to process it correctly, and it sticks to the walls of your colon and starts creating abscesses, and they have to remove your colon and make a new one with stem cells and cut you open like a fish and stitch this new shitter inside of you.

00:49:18.000 Yeah, who's going to be?

00:49:18.000 Yeah, who's going to be the guinea pig?

00:49:20.000 Someone will be, as always.

00:49:23.000 I don't know.

00:49:24.000 And again, not everybody can go hunt wild animals.

00:49:26.000 And if you did, there would be no more wild animals.

00:49:28.000 I mean, that's really what the great market hunting of the early 19th century.

00:49:34.000 That's in the 18th century as well, I think.

00:49:36.000 I think when they started that.

00:49:39.000 I think they started in the 1700s.

00:49:40.000 They started hunting buffalo and antelope, and by the time, the early 1900s, it was almost completely wiped out.

00:49:48.000 We had almost no animals left.

00:49:51.000 And it was market hunting.

00:49:52.000 It wasn't people hunting for their own personal use.

00:49:56.000 They didn't have refrigerators back then, remember?

00:49:58.000 So you had to get meat, and it didn't last very long, and they had to get a new supply of it constantly.

00:50:03.000 And they would just go out and they would take these guys that were from the war and they didn't have jobs.

00:50:10.000 And so this was their job now.

00:50:12.000 They would go out and hunt antelope and elk and deer and then sell that meat at the market.

00:50:17.000 What's interesting too about that is that it's the human condition.

00:50:19.000 It's not only like the more modern human condition.

00:50:20.000 I'm reading a book or I just read a book called 1491, which is about the condition of North and South America and Central America before 1491. Before Columbus.

00:50:28.000 Before Columbus.

00:50:29.000 So there was Viking contact and stuff.

00:50:31.000 And they were talking about, you know, which is, I think, well known to a lot of people that the Native Americans, the Paleo Indians, wiped out tons of animals before when there was literally only a few hundred thousand of them, you know, because they were over hunting them.

00:50:44.000 So, this cycle continues regardless.

00:50:49.000 You even hear about that in Iceland with the Norse that lived there, where they depleted their very precious woodstock there. 1.00

00:50:54.000 There's no animals.

00:50:56.000 It's not just modern humans that are challenged by this.

00:51:00.000 The woolly mammoth and all these animals were wiped out by humans.

00:51:04.000 That's very controversial, by the way.

00:51:07.000 There's a lot of people that believe that that had to coincide because the dates coincide with the end of the Ice Age.

00:51:13.000 And there's a guy that I've had on this podcast several times named Randall Carlson, and he has some very compelling evidence that points to the possibility that it was asteroid impact that wiped out these animals in mass.

00:51:26.000 And that's one of the reasons why in certain parts of the world you could find mass graveyards of animals that were killed almost instantly.

00:51:32.000 And this was 10,000 years ago or so?

00:51:34.000 Yeah.

00:51:34.000 Interesting.

00:51:35.000 10,000 to 12,000 years ago.

00:51:37.000 They think there was two possible large impacts that happened.

00:51:40.000 So they weren't bolides.

00:51:41.000 They actually struck the...

00:51:43.000 So they weren't like the Tunguska event with an explosion they actually hit?

00:51:46.000 They think it struck the ice sheet above North America.

00:51:49.000 Oh, interesting.

00:51:50.000 So there would be no evidence.

00:51:51.000 Right.

00:51:51.000 Well, North America, well, they think that that was the reason why there's this...

00:51:54.000 It's a fascinating podcast to go back and listen to.

00:51:57.000 And I had him on with another guy named Michael Shermer, who's a famous skeptic, and Graham Hancock, who's also a proponent of some of his ideas.

00:52:04.000 And they showed all these images of these deep fissures that were cut into the land that must have been a massive amount of water over a very short period of time.

00:52:16.000 And he thinks it was probably a large body that slammed into the polar ice caps or slammed into rather the ice caps that are above, you know, North America somewhere around 10,000 years ago at two miles high of ice over much of the surface of it.

00:52:30.000 And all of a sudden, boom, gone.

00:52:32.000 And that's what caused the Great Lakes. 0.98

00:52:36.000 I mean, the Great Lakes are essentially these gigantic glaciers that melted.

00:52:40.000 And there's all sorts of features.

00:52:43.000 In these various landscapes that he believes point to massive amounts of water that happened over an incredibly short period of time and the explanation for that and the peaks and the rises and the falls in temperature during that time when they do like core samples of the earth,

00:52:59.000 he thinks that that also points to some sort of an impact.

00:53:03.000 That's fascinating.

00:53:04.000 What's his name?

00:53:05.000 Randall Carlson.

00:53:06.000 Randall Carlson.

00:53:07.000 I don't remember that.

00:53:07.000 He's been studying this his whole life.

00:53:09.000 He had an idea once when he was on acid.

00:53:11.000 He went and looked at over this gigantic canyon when he was on acid.

00:53:16.000 And he had this idea that this all happened because of water.

00:53:19.000 And he was trying to piece it together.

00:53:22.000 And then became fascinating and started studying it.

00:53:25.000 And then got really into astroidal impacts.

00:53:28.000 And he's a wealth of knowledge, man.

00:53:30.000 A really, really fascinating guy to talk to.

00:53:32.000 That's fascinating.

00:53:32.000 I love that stuff, man.

00:53:33.000 That's what's so frustrating and why I didn't study in college or really super interested in ancient history or even, you know, paleo history and pre-human history and stuff.

00:53:43.000 It's also hypothetical you'll never really know.

00:53:45.000 You have to just kind of trust people much smarter than you, that they have these good ideas that sometimes conflict, but you'll never really know the answer.

00:53:53.000 It's so frustrating to me.

00:53:54.000 Well, those ideas definitely do conflict here.

00:53:56.000 This is the area that he looked over.

00:53:58.000 Here, play some of this so you can get some volume on this.

00:54:10.000 Right.

00:54:11.000 Right.

00:54:14.000 Right.

00:54:23.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:54:24.000 Now the Twins themselves, I mean, that's a Basalt outcrawl.

00:54:27.000 But is that being sculpted by the Flood?

00:54:32.000 Yes.

00:54:33.000 And had the Flood continued for, let's say, another few days, a week, or whatever, they would not exist.

00:54:40.000 They would have been literally washed away from it.

00:54:45.000 This is a long, long, detailed thing.

00:54:48.000 I mean, he's talked about it on the podcast for hours and hours.

00:54:52.000 I've had him on several times, and there's still a lot of information to cover.

00:54:55.000 Because this guy's been studying this his whole life.

00:54:57.000 I'm going to look into that.

00:54:58.000 That sounds interesting to me.

00:55:00.000 It's absolutely positive that humans had an impact on woolly mammoths and a lot of other animals.

00:55:06.000 But there's a lot of people that are very, very hesitant to blame the entire...

00:55:14.000 Eradication of these animals on people.

00:55:16.000 Yeah, I don't know enough about it.

00:55:18.000 I do recommend the book, though.

00:55:19.000 Just an interesting insight into...

00:55:21.000 1491, it's called.

00:55:22.000 Just an interesting insight into agriculture, into just some ideas that kind of cobble together some sort of vision of this place before mainstream European contact.

00:55:32.000 This is one of the few places that I would...

00:55:34.000 I mean, if you had a time machine...

00:55:36.000 I've always thought about this.

00:55:36.000 If you could go in some sort of an invisible bubble and experience the Earth at various stages.

00:55:43.000 There's two things I would love to see.

00:55:44.000 I would love to see...

00:55:45.000 During the Great Pyramids, like when they were in their prime, I would love to see what was Egypt actually like before they burned the Library of Alexandria.

00:55:53.000 And I would have loved to have seen a native tribe in North America pre-colonization.

00:56:00.000 Right.

00:56:01.000 It would be fascinating.

00:56:02.000 Oh, man.

00:56:02.000 And that's the frustrating thing is we'll never really quite know the answer, but it's fun to speculate about.

00:56:07.000 And I was reading...

00:56:09.000 I think you'd find interesting.

00:56:10.000 I was reading about the Easter Islanders and how they...

00:56:16.000 They have sweet potatoes on the island, which are not indigenous to the island.

00:56:20.000 And the sweet potato had kind of spread around Polynesia, presumably from South America.

00:56:24.000 And there's this interesting thing that the word, I don't remember the exact word, but the word that many Polynesians or many Polynesian societies that were separated from each other used for the sweet potato is identical to what they were using on the South American mainland, indicating that the islands might have been populated from the other direction.

00:56:43.000 They assume that people came down from what is, I guess, Indonesia into Australia and then kind of hopped over to those islands.

00:56:49.000 But people are suggesting that there must have been contact from Paleo-Americans on those islands because they eat sweet potatoes, which are indigenous to South America, and they call them the same exact thing.

00:56:58.000 These societies that were thousands of miles apart.

00:57:06.000 Yeah.

00:57:08.000 Yeah.

00:57:24.000 I guess they apparently found some coins, Roman coins, and they found these jars that I guess were ancient Roman or supposedly ancient Roman anchors for ships.

00:57:35.000 Yeah, I've seen that.

00:57:36.000 These are recent discoveries, right?

00:57:39.000 I think so.

00:57:39.000 Over the last 10 years, maybe.

00:57:40.000 Yeah.

00:57:41.000 Yeah, I mean, the human history is, you know, kind of pieced together by what we find.

00:57:48.000 And every now and then they find something and they go, oh, okay.

00:57:51.000 You know, I mean, what's really crazy is that with Native Americans, when the settlers got here, when Europeans got here, they didn't have horses. 0.99

00:57:59.000 But horses actually evolved in North America.

00:58:02.000 Horses evolved in North America and then by crossing the Bering landmass made their way into Asia and All throughout the rest of the world, even zebras.

00:58:12.000 They originally started in North America.

00:58:14.000 It's wild.

00:58:15.000 But then somehow or another, for some reason, they went extinct in North America.

00:58:20.000 And, you know, they survived and thrived in Europe, and then they were reintroduced.

00:58:26.000 Dan Flores, he's a wildlife historian, he maintains that the Native Americans, once they had firearms and the horse, that they would have wiped out the buffalo on their own.

00:58:39.000 That it had nothing to do with market hunting and all the things that the Europeans did.

00:58:45.000 Was terrible and it happened quite rapidly, but he maintains that it was it was gonna happen anyway Just just the nature of what kind of an animal it was and that humans were eventually gonna get to them anyway Yeah, I mean that's what we were talking about with the human condition and how things don't seem to change regardless of who you're talking about and I'm always fascinated by these tangential kind of connections between these different societies that we're learning more and more about that the world is Way smaller than I think we thought it was in antiquity and even before that They were talking about how some

00:59:15.000 Greenland and I guess Newfoundland and New Brunswick and all these kind of had these Indian tribes that definitely probably had extended contact with the Vikings for a long period of time.

00:59:26.000 And these words kind of find their way to like the St. Lawrence Valley that describe the same things.

00:59:31.000 And then when the French fur traders come, they find that they're using words that they shouldn't know.

00:59:35.000 Yeah.

00:59:37.000 It's super fascinating, these brilliant scholars that kind of put these things together for us to read about.

00:59:42.000 It is amazing.

00:59:43.000 And just think of how much we don't know.

00:59:48.000 God, to be able to go back 6,000 years ago and just be a fly on the wall on some...

00:59:54.000 Ancient civilization and see how they interacted with each other.

00:59:57.000 Oh, it would have been awesome.

00:59:58.000 It would have been awesome.

00:59:58.000 Because you even read about...

01:00:00.000 There were these great...

01:00:01.000 There's outside of St. Louis, I think it's like Cahokia or something like that.

01:00:04.000 It was this massive Native American metropolis in North America.

01:00:07.000 We often think about Central and South America as having these...

01:00:10.000 You know, Aztec, Inca, all these major cities.

01:00:12.000 But there were major mound cities in North America that were populated by maybe 25,000, 30,000 people.

01:00:17.000 And they were wiped out before we even got here or before our European ancestors got here.

01:00:22.000 And it's so...

01:00:24.000 God, you're right, because it would just be so interesting to see how do they live, how do they farm, what was their commerce like?

01:00:30.000 What was their languages like?

01:00:32.000 Did they have written records that didn't survive?

01:00:34.000 I don't know.

01:00:35.000 But again, that ties back in that Venn diagram of frustration, because you'll never really know.

01:00:39.000 There's a ranch up in Central California that I go to sometimes called Tohon Ranch, and there's these stone circles that are carved in rocks.

01:00:50.000 So they have these massive rocks, and then there's like these concave like dugouts where they would make bread.

01:00:58.000 So you're looking at places where they would grind grain into these rocks, and these holes are, you know, who knows how long.

01:01:07.000 They existed.

01:01:08.000 Who knows how long ago these subsistence farmers or subsistence people lived there and did this.

01:01:16.000 And so you're stepping over these rocks and staring down.

01:01:19.000 There's some Getty images of them. 0.97

01:01:23.000 Those holes were carved by the Native Americans and they were done over fucking years and years of grinding stones into the stone. 1.00

01:01:32.000 And now what's interesting is A lot of the ancient Egyptians, I went to see the mummy exhibit at the Natural History Museum, or the Science Museum. 0.95

01:01:43.000 Which one is it in California?

01:01:44.000 Anyway, they had a museum exhibit on mummies, and they said all their teeth were ground down.

01:01:50.000 And it's because when they would make their bread and they would grind stone into stone, it would create sand.

01:01:56.000 And that sand would be in the bread.

01:01:58.000 Interesting.

01:01:59.000 So they'd be eating this gritty, sandy bread.

01:02:02.000 And that's what they ate. 0.99

01:02:04.000 And it would just chew their fucking teeth away to nothing. 1.00

01:02:07.000 That's fascinating. 0.99

01:02:08.000 Yeah, it's this marriage of archaeology and anthropology and sociology even that gives...

01:02:13.000 I'm always disconcerted that more people don't find this fascinating.

01:02:16.000 Right.

01:02:17.000 Well, you're a real student of history.

01:02:18.000 I mean, you really love history.

01:02:20.000 I do.

01:02:20.000 I love it.

01:02:20.000 I mean, I thought that was a really interesting subject when you and I were talking the first time.

01:02:25.000 And you're a young guy, but you embrace it, you know?

01:02:28.000 I think it's fascinating.

01:02:29.000 Someone has to do it.

01:02:29.000 It's not practical.

01:02:31.000 I always tell people, people have gone, you know, over the years, fans of mine have gone to school for history and asked me, should I study history and politics?

01:02:38.000 And I'm like, you can.

01:02:40.000 I think you should do what makes you happy.

01:02:41.000 I think it would be much wiser for you to study pharmacy or chemistry or something.

01:02:45.000 There's not a lot of money in history.

01:02:46.000 Yeah, there's not that.

01:02:47.000 I mean, I remember when I was about to start grad school when I got my job in the gaming industry and I left.

01:02:53.000 And I remember professors being like, 50% of all history PhDs will never find a job in the field.

01:02:59.000 Wow, 50%?

01:03:01.000 Yeah, because it's the same thing with archaeology.

01:03:03.000 I played around with the idea of doing American archaeology, which is a growing movement.

01:03:08.000 They're digging up Jamestown, all those kinds of things.

01:03:11.000 And there's just no money in it.

01:03:13.000 And so I want people to just love history the way I love it and understand it.

01:03:18.000 And I think a lot of it is because it's not told well.

01:03:20.000 Yeah.

01:03:21.000 The stories...

01:03:22.000 Dates and times are interesting.

01:03:23.000 I remember them, and I think I have that kind of brain, that kind of right-centered brain where I remember facts and dates, but that's not really what's important about it.

01:03:31.000 And if people taught...

01:03:32.000 History more as stories, which I think is what I'm trying to do with my show, then I think that people will enjoy it more.

01:03:38.000 So I think that's the greatest pleasure of what I do, is people saying, I hate history, or I hated history, or God, I thought it was so boring, but this is so interesting.

01:03:45.000 Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

01:03:47.000 And I was like, well, more power to you, and now we can remember what happened.

01:03:51.000 And these stories are interesting, and they're important.

01:03:53.000 They are important, and how many people are taking advantage of that?

01:03:57.000 How many people are passing these stories around?

01:04:00.000 I mean, how many Dan Carlins are there in the world?

01:04:03.000 Yeah, not many, and pretty much no one of his skill.

01:04:06.000 Yeah.

01:04:06.000 Hey, Jamie, can you give me one of them cavemans, please?

01:04:08.000 And another one of these jammies?

01:04:09.000 You want a caveman coffee?

01:04:10.000 You want to get jazzed up?

01:04:11.000 I'm okay, thank you.

01:04:12.000 I don't drink coffee.

01:04:12.000 You don't drink coffee at all?

01:04:13.000 I have no problem with that.

01:04:15.000 I just don't drink it.

01:04:16.000 You just don't like the taste?

01:04:17.000 Or you don't like getting jacked?

01:04:18.000 Oh no, I don't mind getting it.

01:04:20.000 I could use some energy, but no, I'm good.

01:04:22.000 Thank you.

01:04:22.000 I always feel like I'm missing out on something.

01:04:24.000 With coffee?

01:04:25.000 Yeah, because people really love it.

01:04:26.000 My girlfriend's the same way.

01:04:27.000 My dad, super coffee connoisseur.

01:04:30.000 Really?

01:04:30.000 Yeah, he loves it.

01:04:31.000 He loves coffee.

01:04:32.000 I feel like that with cigarettes sometimes.

01:04:34.000 I know cigarettes are terrible for you, and I think they smell gross.

01:04:37.000 But I see people taking a big drag of the cigarette, and they seem so satisfied and excited by it.

01:04:42.000 I'm like, hmm, maybe I'm missing something.

01:04:44.000 Yeah, I always see people outside of work in my neighborhood.

01:04:47.000 You kind of get to know the characters in your neighborhood, right?

01:04:49.000 And they're always standing outside, smoking, having a little me time.

01:04:52.000 I'll tell you what, though.

01:04:53.000 I smoked one of Tony Hinchcliffe cigarettes before a show once.

01:04:56.000 I think I've done it twice now.

01:04:58.000 And it's a real cognitive booster.

01:05:02.000 I mean, it really does stimulate you in a very strange way.

01:05:05.000 Thank you, sir.

01:05:06.000 Do you think you're better after having it?

01:05:08.000 I don't know.

01:05:08.000 What's better?

01:05:10.000 I don't know.

01:05:10.000 Sometimes you're not better stimulated, especially doing stand-up.

01:05:13.000 Sometimes you're better balanced and calm.

01:05:17.000 But mentally, it definitely stimulates you in some sort of weird way.

01:05:21.000 I was like, ooh, this is a different sort of feeling.

01:05:24.000 Have you ever smoked a cigar?

01:05:25.000 Yeah.

01:05:26.000 Yeah, you get high off cigars.

01:05:27.000 Yeah, I can only smoke half of it or I actually start to get almost nauseous in a way.

01:05:30.000 Yeah, you get high.

01:05:32.000 The nicotine in a fat stogie definitely gets you high.

01:05:36.000 There's something to it.

01:05:37.000 It makes me think about these old-timers. 1.00

01:05:39.000 People still do it, but my friend growing up, his grandpa would always...

01:05:42.000 That smell reminds me of him because he'd always just sit on the porch and smoke, but he'd just chain-smoke like cigars.

01:05:47.000 And I'm like, how are you not...

01:05:48.000 Animals.

01:05:49.000 Different people.

01:05:50.000 It's incredible.

01:05:51.000 But yeah, you were doing the sober thing for the Sober October, right?

01:05:55.000 Yeah, I'm still doing it.

01:05:56.000 So today's the last day.

01:05:57.000 How do you feel?

01:05:57.000 Today's the last day.

01:05:59.000 Nervous to smoke pot again.

01:06:00.000 Yeah.

01:06:01.000 I'll tell you that.

01:06:01.000 God, I haven't gotten more than like two days without smoking pot in 15 years, so I don't even know.

01:06:05.000 It's weird.

01:06:06.000 I'll tell you, the big change is your sleep.

01:06:09.000 I have radical dreams.

01:06:11.000 Really?

01:06:12.000 Yeah, radical, really realistic dreams.

01:06:17.000 Confusing dreams where in the middle of the dream you don't realize that it's a dream like I had a dream That I was lying on this couch a couch that actually exists a couch in my house and then I was cold So I grabbed this blanket and I was pulling the blanket over me But the blanket was kind of stuck in the pillows.

01:06:33.000 So, you know, like, you know Gotta struggle with it to get the blanket over you. 0.76

01:06:37.000 And then I woke up and there's no fucking blanket. 0.94

01:06:40.000 I was like, oh my god Like I dreamt that I was pulling a blanket. 0.98

01:06:45.000 I mean it was so realistic that I would have sworn if I woke up that I had struggled to get that blanket over me while I was taking a nap on the couch. 0.98

01:06:55.000 But there was no fucking blanket. 0.96

01:06:56.000 I was reading and as I was reading I decided I was gonna lie down right here and sleep. 0.99

01:07:03.000 I must have passed out and decided that I was cold and went through this elaborate dream sequence where I pulled a blanket over me.

01:07:11.000 But I was convinced that I had woken up cold and had to adjust and pulled a blanket over me and went back to sleep.

01:07:18.000 It's mainly very vivid. 0.96

01:07:19.000 Fucking super vivid, but there was no blanket anywhere near me. 0.99

01:07:22.000 When I woke up, I mean, there's just fucking couch, pillow, that's it. 0.99

01:07:26.000 No blanket on the ground. 0.99

01:07:27.000 Not like I could have gotten up and put it over there and sleepwalked. 0.99

01:07:31.000 There's no fucking blanket. 0.96

01:07:32.000 But in my mind, if you had asked me, like, did you wake up and pull a blanket over? 0.98

01:07:36.000 Yeah, yeah, I did.

01:07:37.000 Yeah, I remember. 0.99

01:07:38.000 No, I don't remember shit. 0.99

01:07:39.000 It was fake. 0.96

01:07:40.000 So are you looking forward to not doing this anymore?

01:07:43.000 Or do you want to keep...

01:07:45.000 Keep doing it.

01:07:46.000 Are the pros outweighing the cons?

01:07:48.000 I think there are real creative benefits to marijuana.

01:07:52.000 I do too.

01:07:53.000 There's states that I think you achieve when you smoke pot that are unattainable without pot.

01:07:59.000 I think pot makes me more introspective.

01:08:02.000 It makes me nicer.

01:08:04.000 It makes me calmer.

01:08:05.000 It makes me have a better sense and understanding of the importance and value of community.

01:08:14.000 It makes me more sensitive to the things that I'm saying.

01:08:19.000 I don't think Pod's bad.

01:08:21.000 No, I don't either.

01:08:22.000 But I think it's always good to take time away from anything just to get a better baseline.

01:08:27.000 Sure.

01:08:28.000 Bring yourself back down to neutral.

01:08:30.000 Yeah, I feel like it's something maybe I should challenge myself to do as well, because I remember, I mean, I've smoked marijuana regularly my whole adult life, and it becomes, some people dip in and out of it, like it's something that you do recreationally, or you want to get stoned before a concert or whatever,

01:08:45.000 but I always found that it was, as sad as it sounds to some people, I think, that it was almost part of my process in a way, where even in college I was writing a paper, or I was working, or whatever the case might be, I feel like, yeah, let's smoke a joint or something like that.

01:09:01.000 And I agree.

01:09:02.000 I get most creative to this day, late at night, if I smoke or do something like that.

01:09:09.000 I'm writing good stuff.

01:09:10.000 I'm having good ideas.

01:09:11.000 I'm writing ideas down.

01:09:12.000 And then sometimes I come back to them later when I'm not stoned and I can flesh them out more or whatever.

01:09:17.000 But I agree that there's great creative benefit to it.

01:09:20.000 And I also feel like I'm really happy that in a very short amount of time, American society has come around to the benefits of marijuana, not only medicinally, but just recreationally.

01:09:30.000 And the numbers, the polling numbers from the early 2000s to today are radically different.

01:09:33.000 We're talking about shifts of like 30, 35 points and how people feel about them.

01:09:37.000 And like you're saying, with anything, moderation is probably key.

01:09:42.000 I often in my life don't, because it can make me lazy too.

01:09:46.000 It can get me very interested in music or something like that and I get distracted.

01:09:49.000 Right. 0.95

01:09:50.000 So in my general day-to-day, I don't smoke until I'm done with the administrative shit I need to do. 0.95

01:09:54.000 I'm done. 0.81

01:09:55.000 I've gone to the grocery store.

01:09:56.000 I've done all these things.

01:09:57.000 Okay, now it's time for me to relax.

01:09:58.000 Do your grunt work.

01:10:00.000 Exactly.

01:10:02.000 But do you have a specific joint or something strand ready that you want to smoke to get back into it?

01:10:07.000 Are you going to ease back into it?

01:10:08.000 Are you going to...

01:10:10.000 It just says, Jamie just pulled something.

01:10:12.000 I said polls find supportive legal weed at an all-time high.

01:10:16.000 That's great.

01:10:17.000 No, I'm just going to smoke some pot.

01:10:18.000 I'm going to do it tomorrow with Owen Benjamin.

01:10:20.000 We're doing a podcast together, so I'm going to get high for the first time on air.

01:10:23.000 Nice.

01:10:23.000 Well, that'll be interesting for the audience.

01:10:24.000 Yeah, it should be interesting for me, too. 0.99

01:10:27.000 Yeah, I'm a little nervous, because I know it's going to hit me like a goddamn freight train. 0.98

01:10:31.000 It will. 0.99

01:10:32.000 I bet my tolerance is down to zero.

01:10:34.000 But that's going to be fun for you, because I do feel like there's a plateau, obviously.

01:10:38.000 Oh, for sure.

01:10:39.000 Yeah, like heavy-duty, hardcore, daytime stoners, you know, they don't feel anything.

01:10:44.000 Yeah, it's almost like sustaining some sort of feeling, but you can never reach that feeling again, which is, again, why moderation is important.

01:10:51.000 And it's the same thing alcoholics, frankly, feel and other people that abuse things, so.

01:10:55.000 But marijuana, we have a very infantile sort of approach to what marijuana is because of, I think, because of all the prohibition bullshit that people went through. 0.95

01:11:05.000 From the 1930s on, there's this weird propaganda that marijuana is the devil's weed and it's terrible for you.

01:11:13.000 There's a lot of cultural and societal benefits to achieving those states of mind.

01:11:19.000 I think they really do make people nicer.

01:11:22.000 I think it calms you down.

01:11:24.000 Here's the big one that everybody's worried about, paranoia.

01:11:27.000 It makes you paranoid.

01:11:30.000 I don't think that that's a bad thing, necessarily.

01:11:33.000 I think that paranoia, that feeling of vulnerability, it probably makes you more honestly assess how you interface with the world.

01:11:42.000 There's a lot of real danger in the world.

01:11:44.000 And I think that marijuana probably makes you really think about that real danger in a way that you perhaps ignore or put in the back of your head, but it's always there.

01:11:54.000 It's always there in your subconscious, just sort of grinding away at you, whereas marijuana Brings it to the front, has a light, shines that light on it, goes, hey, maybe you should look at this.

01:12:04.000 How about the fact that your lungs don't work so good anymore, man?

01:12:08.000 How many more years you got?

01:12:09.000 How many more summers do you think you have on this planet?

01:12:11.000 You know, you got 40, you got 50, you got 60. That's it.

01:12:14.000 If you're lucky.

01:12:15.000 If you're lucky, you got 60. But you're right.

01:12:19.000 It's fascinating because if it opens up these places in our brain that are creative, that let us write better, that make us funnier with your comedy, for instance, or whatever the case might be, then it makes you kinder, which I agree.

01:12:30.000 It mellows people out.

01:12:31.000 Then, of course, it would make sense that it opens up these dark recesses in your brain that hide or shield these things that you don't want to think about.

01:12:38.000 And I agree that confronting those things is normal.

01:12:41.000 I think...

01:12:42.000 Paranoia, I think, is a side effect of marijuana, for sure, but it's about how you harness it, and if you think about it within the parameters that you're talking about, which is that these things exist.

01:12:51.000 So you're just thinking about it.

01:12:52.000 It's not a manifestation of something that doesn't exist.

01:12:55.000 No, and it makes you aware of some things that...

01:12:58.000 Very easy to ignore but are pretty fucking huge like space Like one of my favorite things to do is a smoke a joint and go out and sit in my backyard Just pull up a lawn chair put my feet up and just stare up at space and just think of how fucking insane it is that there is this In immeasurable view of infinity that's above our head and And we sort of take it for granted.

01:13:27.000 We barely stare at it.

01:13:28.000 We barely look at it.

01:13:29.000 We barely take it into consideration.

01:13:30.000 It's just a thing that we completely take for granted.

01:13:34.000 But when I'm high, I can really freak out about it.

01:13:38.000 One of the things that I like to do...

01:13:40.000 When I smoke a little pot is get to the base of a hill.

01:13:43.000 There's something about being in the base of a hill and lying down where you're looking up and you see the hill and then you see the clouds moving over the hill in the background, the blue sky and the clouds.

01:13:55.000 There's something about that that gives me a more accurate understanding of atmosphere.

01:14:02.000 This thin layer of protective air that keeps us shielded from radiation, the magnetosphere above it, all this stuff that's above us that's just sort of slowly moving around this giant globe.

01:14:20.000 There's that view where you're laying back and you're looking up at the clouds rolling over the top of the mountain.

01:14:26.000 It gives you more of an understanding of the spherical nature of the planet and the fact that it is draped in this atmosphere.

01:14:33.000 There's just a real weird, trippy, reset sort of a feeling that I get from that.

01:14:40.000 We're on like a convertible spaceship.

01:14:42.000 Yeah, it is remarkable.

01:14:44.000 It brings memories forward of that rare earth hypothesis.

01:14:48.000 The idea that we might not necessarily be alone, but this is so unique that maybe it's worth...

01:14:53.000 What was it?

01:14:56.000 That Harvard professor that did the mathematical equation of if we're alone or not.

01:14:59.000 Fermi paradox?

01:15:00.000 Yeah, where he gives numbers to various things.

01:15:04.000 And the suggestion there is that we probably...

01:15:07.000 Life based on the confines of a 13.5 billion year old universe that is expanding at the speed of light is probably that we're not very alone.

01:15:16.000 But the idea that this planet in just the right place with a moon that protects it from a lot of ancient asteroid and comet collisions with oxygen and water...

01:15:27.000 It's just so fascinating and I think that we often don't think in a weird way galactically about it or universally about how...

01:15:34.000 Everything that we experience is based on our experience on this little globe hurtling through space.

01:15:39.000 Yeah, as temporary life forms.

01:15:42.000 Yeah, and I like it because it removes this...

01:15:45.000 To me, I'm an atheist.

01:15:47.000 I don't believe in God, and I feel like that's liberating in a sense.

01:15:50.000 I don't mind if people have faith.

01:15:51.000 I come from a family of Catholics, and they don't agree with me.

01:15:55.000 But you almost let go and just be like, we're here.

01:15:58.000 We have a finite amount of time.

01:16:00.000 It's probably a mistake that we're here or some sort of just random occurrence.

01:16:03.000 And it's liberating because you use the time you have to do what you want to do, and then you're gone, ashes to ashes.

01:16:08.000 And a lot of people look at ashes to ashes as this dark thing, and I'm like, it's kind of nice.

01:16:14.000 It's kind of interesting.

01:16:16.000 What's here is gone.

01:16:17.000 What will be is made from what you were.

01:16:20.000 Well, people are absolutely terrified of the idea that they're not going to be around to experience something.

01:16:25.000 It's weird because everybody's afraid to die, but no one's afraid to sleep.

01:16:31.000 That's deep, and it's true.

01:16:32.000 I mean, I hope that I get to see things.

01:16:34.000 I feel like one of the things that I'm bummed about for the time in which we live, you and I, is that I feel like we're in this middle space where some crazy shit's gonna happen in probably 2100 and beyond when we really start. 0.94

01:16:48.000 Dude, crazy shit's happening right now. 0.87

01:16:50.000 I think we're at the embryonic state of crazy things happening. 0.99

01:16:53.000 We might think about how far we've come even in the last 15 years, so who knows?

01:16:57.000 But the idea of traveling to other star systems, the idea of meeting life, oh man.

01:17:02.000 Imagine how frustrated you would be if a contact-like situation, Jodie Foster, Carl Sagan-like situation happened.

01:17:08.000 While you're on your deathbed.

01:17:10.000 Yeah, or even if you have 20 years left and they don't give you this radical mathematical equation to build a spaceship, but they're just like, hey, we're here.

01:17:16.000 And we're 150 light years away and you have to literally take 150 years to send that message.

01:17:22.000 You know, it will take that long to send the message back and then another 150 years to get the message back and so on and so forth.

01:17:27.000 What if they're all like...

01:17:28.000 Putin's Russian mob, but in space.

01:17:31.000 You know what I mean?

01:17:32.000 This idea that they're going to be some sort of altruistic, beautiful alien race that's gotten past war.

01:17:38.000 What if it's like a race of Harvey Weinsteins out in the universe?

01:17:42.000 Just predatory. 1.00

01:17:43.000 They're going to come here and mouthfuck us all. 1.00

01:17:45.000 I mean... 1.00

01:17:48.000 Who knows why they would care about us.

01:17:52.000 And also, there's this assumption that they would treat us better than the way we treat monkeys that we find in the Congo. 0.66

01:17:58.000 Because we don't treat primates very well.

01:18:00.000 Well, it is funny how...

01:18:02.000 That's true.

01:18:02.000 We don't treat almost anything very well, except for our dogs and our cats.

01:18:05.000 But it is funny to think about these kind of thought experiments that people do, astronomers and whatever, about what would be the...

01:18:16.000 Why would they come, and what would be the nature of them, and why are they taking initiative to contact us? 0.98

01:18:21.000 It's interesting that a lot of people do settle on the, if they're going through this trouble, they're not coming here to fuck with you. 1.00

01:18:27.000 That's silly. 0.99

01:18:28.000 But I think, why not? 0.51

01:18:29.000 I don't know.

01:18:30.000 Why would you make an assumption, based on human understanding of anything, what they're going to do?

01:18:33.000 Well, this is a very, in terms of resources, this planet's very rich.

01:18:39.000 Think about it.

01:18:40.000 What if they're from a planet that's low in water?

01:18:43.000 We're three-quarters water.

01:18:45.000 The surface of our planet is mostly water, right?

01:18:48.000 We have all sorts of weird minerals and who knows how...

01:18:52.000 I mean, they're rare in our solar system.

01:18:54.000 What we find on Earth in terms of the biological life is insane, right?

01:19:00.000 We haven't even found biological life anywhere else in the solar system. 0.98

01:19:03.000 So it could be that this is just the ultimate fucking sweet spot. 0.93

01:19:07.000 I mean, we are in what we call the Goldilocks zone, right?

01:19:11.000 But then there's also, my thought is always, why would, it's just like, it's such a limited thing to think that biological life as we know it, carbon-based life on the planet Earth that exists between the temperatures of X and Y, you know, and it has a lifespan of,

01:19:26.000 you know, whatever the fuck it is, like, this is the only way life can be.

01:19:30.000 Why? 0.99

01:19:31.000 Yeah, no, I never bought that.

01:19:32.000 I always was confused by that.

01:19:33.000 Like, why can't a species breathe ammonia?

01:19:36.000 And, you know...

01:19:37.000 Right.

01:19:38.000 And that's why they use the term, I guess, life as we know it.

01:19:41.000 Yeah.

01:19:41.000 But I'm of the same mind as you.

01:19:43.000 I think...

01:19:44.000 With just the mathematical permutations, you know, multiplied by the amount of space covered, even the exoplanets we're finding now, I know a lot of them are gas giants and stuff like that, and they're really close to the star system, but they indicate that maybe we're not all so unique.

01:19:57.000 And I was reading a thing about Jupiter and Saturn, even in relation to exoplanets being found that are similar to them, that they might have been far closer to the sun when they formed and then were pushed out.

01:20:08.000 So maybe we're seeing solar systems earlier on in there.

01:20:13.000 I love space too.

01:20:14.000 I think it's a super fascinating study.

01:20:18.000 I wish that I was smarter with math, with physics, and all those kinds of things, because I have a very...

01:20:23.000 Very limited understanding of that stuff.

01:20:25.000 Maybe I would have explored that instead, but I don't have that.

01:20:29.000 My brain doesn't work like that.

01:20:30.000 I can't do calculus.

01:20:31.000 Are you a fan of science fiction?

01:20:32.000 Yes.

01:20:33.000 Did you like the Battlestar Galactica series?

01:20:35.000 Loved it. 0.95

01:20:36.000 Fucking great, right? 0.90

01:20:37.000 It's awesome. 0.60

01:20:37.000 One of the most underrated series ever. 0.60

01:20:39.000 It was awesome.

01:20:39.000 I agree with you.

01:20:40.000 The new one.

01:20:41.000 Yeah, the one from 2004. Yeah.

01:20:42.000 Yeah, I loved it because I think it married really well.

01:20:47.000 Sci-fi, believable sci-fi, with the problems we're encountering maybe with AI now with the Cylons.

01:20:53.000 And then a religious aspect, a monotheistic, polytheistic culture is kind of clashing.

01:20:57.000 There's a lot of depth to that that I think people don't see because they're turned off by the setting.

01:21:04.000 But I think a lot of people just missed it because it was a retake of, what was it, 1970s show?

01:21:09.000 Yeah, it was like 79, 1980s, something like that, yeah.

01:21:11.000 It was a retake of that show that seemed to be, at the time, to be a Star Wars ripoff, you know?

01:21:16.000 It was like, there was like your Luke Skywalker character that was Starbuck, you know? 0.95

01:21:21.000 There was all this stuff to it that people were like, ah, that's a fake Stormtrooper, ah, this show sucks. 0.89

01:21:29.000 And it was a movie. 0.84

01:21:31.000 Or it was a show, rather.

01:21:32.000 Yeah, it started as a mini-series, which is about the Cylons turning on the humans, or I guess the end result of them turning on the humans, and then they expanded into four seasons. 0.91

01:21:43.000 I think the show is amazing.

01:21:45.000 The new show.

01:21:45.000 Was it only four seasons?

01:21:47.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:21:47.000 Damn, it was good. 0.99

01:21:48.000 Yeah, I think it was 2004 to 2009 or something like that. 0.98

01:21:50.000 Bring it back. 1.00

01:21:51.000 Come on, fuckers. 1.00

01:21:52.000 Netflix, get on it. 1.00

01:21:53.000 Come on.

01:21:54.000 You're cancelling House of Cards.

01:21:55.000 Give us some Battlestar Galactica.

01:21:57.000 Yeah, Battlestar was great.

01:21:58.000 I thought that they told the arc really well.

01:22:00.000 Fascinating.

01:22:00.000 I thought the acting was pretty good.

01:22:02.000 And I like the idea of the, because we're dealing with it tangentially now, the idea of, not that it's unique to that story, but of AI and robots turning on you.

01:22:11.000 Very smart people are telling us that that's very possible, and so we should probably start listening to them.

01:22:16.000 Well, it is possible.

01:22:17.000 Of course it's possible.

01:22:18.000 I think we could be a new life form.

01:22:20.000 I mean, I really do believe that.

01:22:21.000 I think we're either probably going to be augmented by these creations, and we're going to choose to take on new body parts that function much better than the body parts we have now, or we're essentially laboring to create something that's going to surpass us.

01:22:39.000 That absolutely could be it.

01:22:42.000 This idea that it's artificial, too.

01:22:44.000 It's like, well, it's right there.

01:22:45.000 It's real.

01:22:46.000 Like if it's a life form.

01:22:48.000 Oh, it's artificial life.

01:22:49.000 No, it's electronic life.

01:22:51.000 You know, it's something that humans have created, but it's still life.

01:22:54.000 It doesn't...

01:22:54.000 Like if you take a plant, right?

01:22:56.000 You know, I was looking at these plants...

01:22:58.000 And they splice different plants together, like they splice pistachios into avocados.

01:23:05.000 They have the base of an avocado tree and pistachios are grown on the outside. 1.00

01:23:10.000 I'm like, what the fuck? 0.99

01:23:11.000 That's wild. 1.00

01:23:12.000 I didn't know you could do that.

01:23:13.000 Yeah, me neither.

01:23:13.000 Yeah, well, is that artificial?

01:23:15.000 What is that?

01:23:16.000 Seems like it's artificial life.

01:23:17.000 Right.

01:23:17.000 I mean, it seems like they've figured out some way to engineer things in a crude sense, you know, by splicing and grafting and doing all these different weird things to plants.

01:23:28.000 Well, it's still life, though, right?

01:23:31.000 It's still alive.

01:23:31.000 It's functional.

01:23:32.000 And we think of life as everybody has to have bones or blood or scales or fins.

01:23:39.000 Says who? 0.65

01:23:40.000 Says who? 0.65

01:23:41.000 Says us in our limited sort of vocabulary and our very limited encyclopedia of variables that we allow to consider life?

01:23:51.000 Yeah, I think you're right because we have to judge maybe life based on consciousness instead of, not that a planet would have consciousness, but I think that's the kind of the ethical question we're going to start coming up with with machines in the next 20 or 30 years is, are you developing something?

01:24:05.000 There's actually a great, I don't want to ruin it for you, there's an amazing black mirror that kind of touches on this.

01:24:10.000 It's called, I think it's called White Christmas.

01:24:11.000 You should check it out if you have time.

01:24:13.000 And Jon Hamm's actually the main character in it from Mad Men.

01:24:18.000 The idea that if something is conscious, even if it's not real, or even if it's only in a computer, what does that mean?

01:24:26.000 And what if it was trapped there?

01:24:28.000 What if it didn't have agency over its life, but it was still conscious and stuff like that?

01:24:32.000 We're messing with things that we don't understand in this regard.

01:24:35.000 Because even the word consciousness doesn't really have a concrete definition.

01:24:39.000 Because we don't even know what it is.

01:24:40.000 We are conscious.

01:24:41.000 My dog's conscious.

01:24:42.000 But are they self-conscious?

01:24:43.000 And at what level of consciousness?

01:24:45.000 And that's what makes us human.

01:24:46.000 Right.

01:24:47.000 So if we're going to implant that into other machines, even if they're just computers, even if they're literally just running on an operating system, then there are definitely going to be ethical questions to ask, I think.

01:24:57.000 Did you see that Google situation they had where the two computers were communicating each other with a language that they invented themselves?

01:25:04.000 I read a little bit about that, but I don't know too much about it.

01:25:07.000 Yeah, they shut it down.

01:25:09.000 They're like, what?

01:25:10.000 Yeah, it's horrifying, right?

01:25:12.000 It's happening so much quicker than...

01:25:14.000 We envision these things as Skynet or the Cylons or something like that, but I think it's going to be much more quaint.

01:25:21.000 They were very stunned by this.

01:25:24.000 I saw somebody trying to diminish it.

01:25:26.000 Trying to diminish it.

01:25:27.000 And he was like, well, it's just ones and zeros.

01:25:29.000 It's just like what they're doing.

01:25:30.000 They're communicating ones and zeros.

01:25:31.000 Yeah, but they are talking, exchanging information back and forth in a method that we don't understand.

01:25:38.000 And they do. 0.99

01:25:39.000 How the fuck do they? 0.98

01:25:41.000 And why have they chosen to talk to each other? 0.99

01:25:43.000 And is this like one...

01:25:45.000 You know how you have like a science fiction movie?

01:25:47.000 And in the beginning of the movie, you have these engineers sitting around.

01:25:51.000 And the engineer's going, Mike?

01:25:54.000 Mike, come here and look at this real quick.

01:25:56.000 They're talking to each other.

01:25:58.000 What do you mean they're talking to each other?

01:25:59.000 There's a language.

01:26:01.000 See this?

01:26:02.000 See, this is an exchange.

01:26:03.000 Here, and here's the answer, and here's a response to the answer, and here they've agreed upon this, and now they've expanded their sentences like, shut it down.

01:26:10.000 Just shut it down.

01:26:12.000 What do we do about this?

01:26:13.000 Let's let it play out.

01:26:14.000 No.

01:26:14.000 No, let's shut it down.

01:26:16.000 Let's talk about this.

01:26:17.000 And then they shut it down and it phased to black. 0.97

01:26:19.000 Cut to smash cut like you see a new time to 2034 and it's some dystopian Mad Max fucking world and robot people are running down the street chasing after biological people. 0.98

01:26:31.000 Wanting to use them for fuel. 0.94

01:26:33.000 Well, it's interesting because there are different reasons why a robot or a machine might turn on you, right?

01:26:40.000 I think the Cylons were interesting because they turned because they were enslaved, right? 0.53

01:26:44.000 So there was vengeance, which is a human quality, by the way.

01:26:48.000 An animal doesn't really understand vengeance.

01:26:51.000 Chips do.

01:26:52.000 Yeah, well, I guess about higher primates or whatever might understand a retaliatory kind of thing.

01:26:57.000 But generally, this is a human quality, right?

01:27:00.000 Well, it's a primate quality, for sure.

01:27:03.000 And so there's that.

01:27:05.000 So there's like this enslavement, retaliation kind of thing going on.

01:27:08.000 But then there's the very, like, what I always find fascinating, and I think this is more what Skynet was all about in Terminator, although I don't really remember, is the idea that if you look at the landscape of what's happening and you just remove the most inefficient...

01:27:22.000 Yeah.

01:27:29.000 Yeah.

01:27:35.000 Yeah.

01:27:44.000 All talking about this.

01:27:45.000 I'm like, these are some of the smartest people that society has ever given us.

01:27:48.000 And I think we might want to pay attention and have some...

01:27:50.000 I think what they want is some sort of Congress.

01:27:52.000 Not American Congress, but some sort of international coalition that agrees this is what we're going to do and this is how far we'll push the boundaries.

01:27:59.000 And I just don't know that we'll get there before it's...

01:28:02.000 I don't want to say before it's too late, but before we have a scary situation. 0.94

01:28:06.000 And even from a mechanical situation, what they're doing at Boston Dynamics is fucking horrifying. 0.95

01:28:11.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:28:11.000 It's so crazy. 0.98

01:28:12.000 I look at the videos and I'm like, what the f...

01:28:14.000 And it's so funny because some people have said in the past, if you see them, they're using hockey sticks a lot to beat them or knock something out of their hands and stuff.

01:28:23.000 And I'm like, these are the videos they're going to show.

01:28:24.000 They're going to show them in their military camps when they're turning on humanity.

01:28:28.000 Yes.

01:28:29.000 Yeah.

01:28:30.000 There's so many different versions of them.

01:28:32.000 They have them look like cheetahs. 0.91

01:28:34.000 They have them that look like dogs.

01:28:36.000 I mean, they look like people. 0.57

01:28:38.000 It's insanity.

01:28:39.000 Yeah.

01:28:40.000 And these guys are just constantly working on these things, too, and constantly improving.

01:28:44.000 Where is Boston Dynamics?

01:28:45.000 Is it actually in Boston?

01:28:46.000 I think it's in Cambridge.

01:28:47.000 Because I think a lot of people at MIT might migrate there.

01:28:52.000 And I think Google owned them, but I think they've divested, if I remember correctly.

01:28:56.000 That is so wild.

01:28:57.000 Yeah, and the ones where they knock them over, and they get up.

01:29:01.000 Yeah, they kick them.

01:29:02.000 Yeah, because its gyroscope is going, I guess, and it's...

01:29:07.000 Yeah, gyroscopes are fascinating.

01:29:09.000 You know, just something that can sort of self-balance.

01:29:13.000 This is the stuff they're going to show them and hype them up in their propaganda.

01:29:17.000 Yeah.

01:29:18.000 God. 0.96

01:29:19.000 It's fucking amazing. 0.98

01:29:20.000 It is. 0.99

01:29:21.000 It is amazing.

01:29:21.000 I mean, these are...

01:29:24.000 It's so smart these people that do that I managed to do this. 0.97

01:29:27.000 I know, but don't you want to pull them aside and go, hey man, what's the fucking endgame here? 0.96

01:29:31.000 You want to make a robot you can't kick over? 0.97

01:29:35.000 Come on, dude.

01:29:36.000 It brings up ideas, how will we fight wars in the future?

01:29:41.000 Will we do them with this?

01:29:42.000 100%, yeah.

01:29:43.000 Especially if we fight some war with some sort of a primitive culture. 0.96

01:29:47.000 I like how they have them balanced with all these packs.

01:29:49.000 It's incredible.

01:29:51.000 Highlight clip of all the times they've abused a robot.

01:29:54.000 Is that what this is?

01:29:56.000 Oh my god.

01:29:57.000 Yeah, the robot general right now has this playing behind him and as he's talking, he's like, remember what they've done to your ancestors.

01:30:02.000 Well, they're saying abuse, but they're checking tolerances.

01:30:06.000 You know, the robots need to relax. 1.00

01:30:08.000 This is how we made you so awesome, you dumb fucks. 1.00

01:30:12.000 You stupid pricks, you can't even walk on ice. 1.00

01:30:15.000 Now, the interesting thing... 1.00

01:30:17.000 The interesting thing to me about this is, and I don't know if you feel it, but I kind of do, is when they're tripping and falling, I have this feeling of like, yeah, where I'm like, oh, you know what I mean?

01:30:28.000 Look at this poor guy.

01:30:29.000 Yeah, you feel bad for him.

01:30:30.000 Wow, this guy, he can't even kick this one over.

01:30:33.000 Wow, that thing is stout.

01:30:36.000 Yeah, I mean, so they have multiple different models.

01:30:41.000 The video name is funny, by the way, Jamie.

01:30:42.000 It's literally named every time Boston Dynamics has abused a robot.

01:30:46.000 Yeah. 0.78

01:30:47.000 It's not abuse, you dummies. 1.00

01:30:49.000 It's fucking testing. 1.00

01:30:50.000 This is how they find out. 1.00

01:30:51.000 But look at that nerd that's kicking it over. 1.00

01:30:52.000 Go back to that guy. 1.00

01:30:53.000 Oh, that thing sucks. 1.00

01:30:55.000 Go back to that one guy that was kicking it. 0.99

01:30:57.000 Look at him.

01:30:57.000 He's like, looks like he's just, I'm gonna get back at everybody.

01:31:00.000 Go back?

01:31:01.000 Go back to him?

01:31:02.000 So you can see him do it? 1.00

01:31:04.000 Watch him, you fucking piece of shit. 1.00

01:31:07.000 He's like, looks like he always wanted to kick somebody. 1.00

01:31:10.000 He's projecting.

01:31:10.000 Like, even with those little tiny short steps, like he seems awkward before he kicks it.

01:31:15.000 Like, yeah, I'm gonna kick it now!

01:31:17.000 Look at this one. 0.55

01:31:19.000 Oh, it's bouncing on one leg and they're hitting it with a 20 pound medicine ball.

01:31:22.000 Yeah.

01:31:24.000 Wow.

01:31:26.000 Yeah, we're in for a weird hundred years.

01:31:28.000 Yes, and that's what I'm saying. 0.71

01:31:29.000 I hope that we get to see some, because I think it's going to get fucking crazy.

01:31:32.000 Yeah, no, there's no doubt it is. 0.71

01:31:34.000 There's no doubt it is.

01:31:34.000 It's just like how crazy and what's going to be the issues that we're going to have to confront.

01:31:40.000 Sentient life.

01:31:40.000 And also the real question is...

01:31:43.000 Will it have any motivation to advance?

01:31:46.000 Like the idea is that the real fear is that these things are gonna be so hyper-intelligent that they're going to be able to create a much better version of themselves fairly quickly.

01:31:56.000 Like as soon as you give them autonomy and as soon as they're sentient, you're gonna say, okay, make a better one.

01:32:03.000 Make a better one than you. 1.00

01:32:04.000 And they're gonna go, well, you guys fucked up here. 1.00

01:32:06.000 Like why have all these shitty connections and let's do it this way and let's do it that way. 0.99

01:32:11.000 Let's connect to each other.

01:32:13.000 You guys are using Wi-Fi version 6. This is weak.

01:32:17.000 What we need is this new form of Wi-Fi that uses the particles in the atmosphere as transistors and sends back and forth to each other through a highly charged signal.

01:32:29.000 I'm like, what?

01:32:30.000 How'd you fucks figure that out and then next thing you know, but they're not gonna have ego They're not gonna have this desire for and this is this is you know a real underlying Aspect the motivation of the human race the desire to recreate and to reproduce like this desire for sex and this desire It's one of the reasons why people accomplish things they don't just accomplish things because They have this desire to see what happens when they put these two things together and what's the result. 0.98

01:32:59.000 They want fame, they want status, they want power, they want money, and they want all these things because they want to be more sexually attractive. 0.98

01:33:11.000 That's a big part of the motivation of men.

01:33:13.000 You know, it's a weird thing.

01:33:16.000 I mean, that's one of the reasons why Jeff Bezos doesn't just retire. 0.83

01:33:20.000 Why doesn't Jeff Bezos, when he just became the richest man in the world, how the fuck are you gonna spend 90 billion dollars, Holmes? 0.93

01:33:26.000 Cash out. 0.98

01:33:27.000 Cash out and just chillax forever.

01:33:29.000 You know, just walk around with a big red wig on so nobody knows who you are and just live like a king.

01:33:35.000 Like, go wherever you want. 1.00

01:33:36.000 Fuck all this work, man. 1.00

01:33:38.000 You're waking up in the morning, Freaking out about Amazon and making sure everything gets delivered in 30 minutes or less like a fucking pizza. 1.00

01:33:45.000 Instead, just live. 0.99

01:33:47.000 But no, no way. 1.00

01:33:48.000 Jeff Bezos has a fucking supermodel girlfriend now. 1.00

01:33:51.000 He's balling. 1.00

01:33:52.000 He jumps from one gold Lamborghini to the next one.

01:33:55.000 I mean, you start thinking, I want more.

01:33:57.000 I want this.

01:33:58.000 I want that.

01:33:58.000 Well, what is the motivation to do something like that?

01:34:00.000 Where is it coming from?

01:34:02.000 In men, I think a lot of it comes from this need.

01:34:05.000 I mean, I think if you brought it down to the base level, it's this weird biological need to reproduce or to spread your genes or to stand out as something particularly impressive.

01:34:17.000 You're peacocking for females in a lot of ways. 1.00

01:34:21.000 Right.

01:34:22.000 There he is.

01:34:24.000 Look at him, stud.

01:34:26.000 It is amazing to me where I'm like, I dream every day about how I can retire as quickly as possible.

01:34:30.000 And these guys that have the means to do it don't.

01:34:34.000 But there is an internal drive with guys.

01:34:35.000 I mean, you don't found a company like Amazon unless there's something special about you.

01:34:39.000 And I don't mean that as a derogatory thing either.

01:34:40.000 Like, there's something about a person.

01:34:43.000 Ironic is it was originally founded to sell books.

01:34:47.000 It was a very simple site.

01:34:49.000 Have you ever seen the original Amazon site?

01:34:51.000 Yeah, you can go to the Wayback Machine and look at all that.

01:34:53.000 It was just a really simple site to sell books.

01:34:56.000 And I remember when Amazon started selling other things, I was like, why are they doing that?

01:35:00.000 They sell books. 0.99

01:35:01.000 Why are you selling fucking kids' toys? 1.00

01:35:04.000 Right. 1.00

01:35:04.000 Yeah, they moved into music, and then they started expanding from there. 1.00

01:35:07.000 It's funny, though, you brought up the robots making better versions of themselves.

01:35:12.000 Not to be nerdy about it, but that's exactly what happens in Battlestar.

01:35:16.000 What comes back to fight the humans is not what left.

01:35:18.000 Right, right, right.

01:35:19.000 Because they just were like, we're not good enough.

01:35:21.000 We can make ourselves better.

01:35:22.000 They made those killer ones that look like people. 0.97

01:35:24.000 Right, yeah, the numbers, whatever they call them.

01:35:26.000 And even the centurions look better, like are more effective, which is their soldiers.

01:35:30.000 And there's that one episode about the raiders, which is their ships.

01:35:33.000 They have these autonomous ships that are alive, that are fighter ships.

01:35:36.000 And how they, one of them is named Scar, and he keeps having these experiences, like he's really a good fighter pilot or whatever, but he's alive.

01:35:45.000 And it's like, it's really... 0.99

01:35:47.000 Good fucking show, goddammit. 1.00

01:35:48.000 Come on, Netflix! 1.00

01:35:49.000 Bring it Get back! 0.99

01:35:50.000 If you guys out there, you have such a great audience that would, oh my god, go check it out.

01:35:54.000 The numbers will spike on Netflix, they'll see it, and then they'll be like, oh, maybe we'll...

01:35:58.000 Maybe.

01:35:59.000 Folks, if you haven't seen it, I'm telling you, it is a...

01:36:02.000 And I think it was sci-fi that made it, right?

01:36:04.000 It was like sci-fi is coming to, kind of.

01:36:06.000 It was a legitimate thing that they did.

01:36:08.000 And it was very overlooked because people were like, well, it's on sci-fi, well, it's Battlestar Galactica, but it was like a really well-done science fiction drama.

01:36:17.000 And then, yeah, Edward James Olmos was in it, too.

01:36:20.000 And that woman that played Starbuck, what is her name?

01:36:23.000 Katie Sackhoff?

01:36:24.000 Katie Sackhoff. 0.99

01:36:25.000 Yeah, she was fucking great. 0.99

01:36:26.000 Yeah, she was great. 0.98

01:36:27.000 There was a lot of great actors, a lot of great, interesting characters in there.

01:36:30.000 Yeah.

01:36:31.000 You know, even characters that really made you not like them, like...

01:36:36.000 Not Gaeta, he's the guy to the right next to her, the professor.

01:36:42.000 You really hate him.

01:36:44.000 Yeah, you hate a lot of people.

01:36:45.000 Gaius, Gaius Baltar. 0.88

01:36:46.000 Yeah, there was a lot of people that you hated, but Goddamn was a good show.

01:36:49.000 Yeah, it was great.

01:36:50.000 And a lot of these, I don't see many of these people in anything today.

01:36:53.000 I mean, obviously, James Edward almost is a famous actor, but otherwise, I don't see them sprinkling anywhere.

01:36:57.000 Not that I watch a lot of things.

01:36:59.000 Yeah, I know, man.

01:37:00.000 I always wonder about that.

01:37:01.000 When you see someone's in some gigantic hit show, and then they kind of vanish.

01:37:05.000 You know, like, where'd you go?

01:37:08.000 Yeah, maybe they wanted to go do something else or maybe they can't get, you know, I would assume that they all could kind of write their own way.

01:37:13.000 You think that, but I think that also people get pigeonholed into a character.

01:37:17.000 You know, there's certain characters where you see someone and they're on The Sopranos.

01:37:22.000 And from then on, they're Christopher Maltasante forever.

01:37:26.000 Is that his name?

01:37:26.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:37:27.000 I mean, that's who he is.

01:37:28.000 Right.

01:37:28.000 Right?

01:37:29.000 Forever.

01:37:30.000 And it's hard to break out of that for a lot of people.

01:37:33.000 Sure.

01:37:33.000 The one person that managed to get out of there was the wife.

01:37:37.000 I can't think of her name.

01:37:38.000 Edie Falco.

01:37:38.000 Edie Falco, yeah.

01:37:39.000 She was obviously big before that, too, in some things.

01:37:41.000 But she did Nurse Jackie and all those kinds of things. 0.99

01:37:42.000 Some people managed to break out of that.

01:37:43.000 But you're right.

01:37:44.000 When you were on news radio and stuff, did you find...

01:37:46.000 When you went to casting or anything like that...

01:37:49.000 Well, I never really acted again.

01:37:51.000 So, yeah, I guess you found your way into Fear Factor and stuff like that.

01:37:54.000 But you never even tried to do anything after that?

01:37:56.000 I was offered some stuff that was terrible.

01:37:59.000 Like, there were some sitcoms that...

01:38:02.000 It just came my way and, you know, you read the scripts and they were just...

01:38:05.000 The real problem was that news radio was so good that the curse of being with that talented cast and amazing writing and amazing production and also nobody knew about us.

01:38:19.000 Like, when we were on the air, like, people that hear about news radio, most of what people heard about was from news radio's reruns.

01:38:26.000 When we went into syndication and we started playing, that's when people started really getting into news radio.

01:38:32.000 News radio really found a big audience after it was cancelled, which is ironic.

01:38:37.000 Yeah, it's unfortunate.

01:38:38.000 But it was good because the show didn't have anybody fucking with it very much.

01:38:44.000 It was a weird show in that regard.

01:38:47.000 It was not a hit.

01:38:49.000 That show was not a hit show while I was on the air.

01:38:51.000 My friend Lou Morton, who was one of the writers, he would wear a different t-shirt.

01:38:56.000 He would come down to the table reads in a different t-shirt with a number on it based on what our rankings was in the ratings.

01:39:02.000 And he came down once and it said number 88. I go, fuck, dude. 1.00

01:39:05.000 We're number 88. And he was like, yeah. 1.00

01:39:10.000 And I was like, oh my god, we're getting cancelled. 0.99

01:39:13.000 And he started thinking, fuck, why did I get that lease in that apartment? 0.99

01:39:16.000 I'm doomed now. 0.99

01:39:17.000 My sister Dana was a big fan of the show, I remember, when it was on.

01:39:19.000 Because I'm the youngest, by far, of all my siblings.

01:39:23.000 So I think it's a little surreal that I'm on the show, actually, for her.

01:39:27.000 But yeah, I think it's still on syndication.

01:39:29.000 I feel like I've seen it, or maybe in those deep channels, maybe?

01:39:33.000 I'm trying to think.

01:39:34.000 Some things.

01:39:35.000 What is that one down there?

01:39:36.000 Oh, the space one.

01:39:37.000 See that one with me with the white jumpsuit on, Jamie? 0.98

01:39:40.000 See, that's a perfect example of how fucking weird they were. 0.76

01:39:43.000 They did these weird ones where we were on... 0.97

01:39:47.000 Oh, that's not it.

01:39:47.000 That's not the same one.

01:39:48.000 That's not the space one.

01:39:50.000 We did one where we were in space for some reason, but it was the same fucking newsroom, but the newsroom was taking place in space. 0.99

01:39:59.000 They did a lot of weird shit. 0.98

01:40:00.000 They did one where we were completely underwater. 0.99

01:40:03.000 We did a Titanic episode where we literally filmed the show in waist-high water, and we were on a ship, and we wore old-schooly clothes from the Titanic days.

01:40:18.000 It's just an extremely...

01:40:19.000 Go to that picture down there.

01:40:21.000 Go back to that.

01:40:22.000 Scroll up.

01:40:23.000 Scroll up with a picture of the cast.

01:40:25.000 I'm wearing sunglasses over there.

01:40:26.000 We're at some...

01:40:28.000 That was when we went to the Emmys after Phil was murdered.

01:40:35.000 And he's still lost in the Emmys.

01:40:39.000 And Dave Foley turns to me right after they gave it to the guy from Frasier.

01:40:43.000 He goes... 0.98

01:40:44.000 What the fuck does he have to do to win? 1.00

01:40:51.000 You know, it was such a morose, hilarious moment where me and Dave were just laughing to each other. 1.00

01:40:59.000 Strange times, man.

01:41:01.000 It's weird to go back and look at yourself, too, from, you know, whatever it was 20 years ago.

01:41:06.000 It's just strange.

01:41:08.000 Do you have any interest in ever doing something like this again?

01:41:10.000 No, never.

01:41:12.000 No.

01:41:12.000 I have no desire.

01:41:13.000 It's a lot of work.

01:41:15.000 This is so easy. 0.98

01:41:16.000 I'm so fucking spoiled. 0.68

01:41:17.000 Come down, sit down with people like you, have a nice conversation, talk, talk about interesting things that are happening right now. 0.94

01:41:23.000 It's fun.

01:41:24.000 And not that that wasn't fun.

01:41:26.000 It was really fun.

01:41:27.000 But it's somebody else's thing, and it's a lot of work.

01:41:30.000 It took a lot away from my stand-up.

01:41:34.000 It took a lot away from doing other things.

01:41:36.000 When I started doing UFC commentary back then, too, in 97, when news radio was on the air, I was actually the interviewer, the post-fight interviewer.

01:41:49.000 And they would say to me, they would treat me literally like I was going off to do porn.

01:41:55.000 They were like, why are you doing this?

01:41:57.000 Like, you're gonna fly to Alabama to work for a cage fighting organization? 1.00

01:42:01.000 You're a fucked up person. 1.00

01:42:02.000 I was like, this is the sport of the future. 1.00

01:42:04.000 I know you guys are crazy.

01:42:05.000 You saw something a lot of people didn't, I think, so good for you. 0.97

01:42:08.000 Yeah, I don't know why, man.

01:42:09.000 Well, honestly, I probably didn't really see something.

01:42:13.000 I just saw what I liked.

01:42:16.000 For whatever reason, good or bad, there's me, 1997. For whatever reason, good or bad, I've always 100% trusted my instincts.

01:42:28.000 When I like something, I go, well, I've got to go do that.

01:42:31.000 Because it's what I've always done.

01:42:33.000 It's what's led me through my life.

01:42:35.000 If I went back...

01:42:37.000 And I've looked at my decision to get obsessed with martial arts or my decision to quit all that and get obsessed with stand-up comedy.

01:42:46.000 All the decisions that I've made have all been insanely impulsive, passion-driven.

01:42:54.000 Derided by everyone around me.

01:42:56.000 Like, what?

01:42:57.000 You're gonna do what?

01:42:58.000 But they ultimately all worked.

01:43:00.000 Well, your story's so interesting to me because you have legitimately large pieces of your audience that know you for totally different things.

01:43:06.000 The guys that watch UFC and see you kind of do, you know, in that sphere.

01:43:10.000 And then you have the guys that, you know, watch the show or listen to the show.

01:43:13.000 And you have, obviously, people that love you as a stand-up comic.

01:43:15.000 And then, obviously, the crossover between all of those.

01:43:17.000 So you've managed to create, like, three different viable...

01:43:21.000 Lives that all intermix.

01:43:23.000 It's pretty cool.

01:43:24.000 Well, the UFC thing is very strange because whether or not anybody agrees with my opinions on life outside of it, they know that when I'm doing commentary, I am doing my absolute best to honor what's happening inside the Octagon.

01:43:42.000 And I have a deep knowledge and understanding of what's going on.

01:43:47.000 Like, this isn't...

01:43:48.000 Like, do you remember when...

01:43:49.000 I don't know if you remember this, but Dennis Miller used to do Monday Night Football.

01:43:52.000 Yeah, I do remember that, yeah. 0.99

01:43:53.000 People fucking hated him. 0.98

01:43:54.000 Yeah, I remember. 1.00

01:43:56.000 They were so mad.

01:43:57.000 They were so mad at him.

01:43:58.000 And this was before, I think, I was doing FearFact, or before I was doing the UFC. Or maybe I was doing the post-fight interviews, but I hadn't done the commentary yet.

01:44:08.000 Either one.

01:44:09.000 But I was like, you can't force funny into something...

01:44:14.000 Where people want to watch The Thing.

01:44:17.000 You can't force funny into Alien, the movie Alien.

01:44:22.000 It's not supposed to be funny.

01:44:23.000 The Thing is, this is a dramatic, horrifying science fiction movie.

01:44:28.000 You don't force funny into something like that.

01:44:30.000 And that's what I felt like.

01:44:32.000 Dennis Miller was like, this is just like back when...

01:44:34.000 You know, he's like one-liner, one-liner.

01:44:39.000 That's his thing.

01:44:40.000 That's what he did.

01:44:41.000 But I never did that.

01:44:42.000 I always just did commentary. 0.99

01:44:44.000 And if you heard me do commentary, unless something happens that's fucked up inside the octagon and I have to go, what the fuck is this? 0.97

01:44:53.000 And then I go on a rant about something, people would have no idea that I was funny at all. 0.98

01:44:56.000 Right.

01:44:57.000 And that's kind of nurturing those different audiences, right?

01:45:00.000 But I never thought about it that way.

01:45:02.000 It's not like a concerted effort to nurture anything.

01:45:05.000 It's just...

01:45:06.000 The UFC in specific, first of all, it's about getting out of my own way and honoring what's happening.

01:45:15.000 You have to kind of honor...

01:45:17.000 You've got to think, when a guy...

01:45:18.000 There's a big fight this weekend, right?

01:45:20.000 TJ Dillashaw is going to fight Cody Garbrandt.

01:45:22.000 It's probably the biggest bantamweight fight of all time.

01:45:25.000 When those two guys get into the octagon, you're dealing with the consequences of the history of an entire division, probably the two best champions in that division going at it, the two of the three best champions, Dominic Cruz being the other one, going at it in this historical matchup.

01:45:42.000 You have a lot of responsibility, and you have to think about it that way.

01:45:46.000 It's not about you at all.

01:45:48.000 Right.

01:45:48.000 No, I think it's interesting because I feel like I've actually been challenged in that same way, you know, because I came up as a gaming commentator.

01:45:59.000 And, you know, Dennis Miller, I think a lot of the reason people were kind of concerned about him, too, was that he would tell political jokes or bring political things in, which was unheard of at the time on Monday Night Football or in the NFL generally, and now it's part and parcel with the NFL. I'm a huge football fan, so I'm bearing witness to it every week.

01:46:15.000 Yeah.

01:46:15.000 But I, as a gaming commentator, I've often found some difficulty in keeping out shades of that, shades of politics, and kind of social commentary in what I did as well.

01:46:25.000 And that certainly alienated some people.

01:46:27.000 But I also think it engendered, like, wow, this guy's honest and just tells you exactly what he thinks as well.

01:46:32.000 So I was able to benefit from that, but I also don't have the audience that you have as well.

01:46:35.000 And I think keeping it structured and separated is wise.

01:46:38.000 I mean, it is sometimes, but it's also sometimes wise to just be yourself.

01:46:42.000 And that way you never have to worry if people like you for who you are.

01:46:46.000 You know, if you pretend to be someone else, like, that's like, okay, I hate to bring him up again, but Cosby is one of the grossest parts about it.

01:46:54.000 We had it in our head that this guy was this squeaky clean, middle America, perfect example of this ethical, moral guy. 1.00

01:47:06.000 Meanwhile, he was a fucking rapist. 1.00

01:47:07.000 When you're around something like that, You appreciate someone who's just themselves, you know? 1.00

01:47:15.000 I mean, obviously you don't appreciate him if himself is a rapist. 0.62

01:47:18.000 Right. 0.96

01:47:19.000 It's maybe a bad example.

01:47:21.000 But what do you define yourself as?

01:47:24.000 Do you think of yourself as a libertarian?

01:47:26.000 Are you a Republican?

01:47:27.000 No, I was a Republican.

01:47:28.000 I left the party after Trump won the nomination.

01:47:30.000 You're like, enough.

01:47:31.000 Well, because I can't.

01:47:32.000 I couldn't stand him.

01:47:33.000 I consider myself a moderate conservative.

01:47:37.000 Don't you think it's interesting that Trump was a Democrat his whole life?

01:47:40.000 Yes.

01:47:41.000 I think he's just an opportunist, and I think the Republicans wanted to just win.

01:47:46.000 But I also think he had 17 people in that field, or 16 other people in that field, and he was winning primaries and caucuses with 35% of the vote.

01:47:54.000 I have no problem with the Electoral College, but he didn't win the popular vote.

01:47:59.000 So to me, I was like, I identify as conservative.

01:48:02.000 I feel like the word libertarian has been totally bastardized.

01:48:04.000 We were talking about words that don't mean anything anymore.

01:48:07.000 Where people almost look at libertarianism as like anarchy.

01:48:10.000 And to me, I'm like, I'm a social libertarian.

01:48:13.000 I always call myself a social libertarian.

01:48:14.000 I believe that drugs should be decriminalized.

01:48:16.000 I think that, you know, obviously this state shouldn't be really involved in litigating who's getting married.

01:48:22.000 I think if you want to have a polygamous relationship and everyone's... 0.99

01:48:25.000 Cool with that.

01:48:25.000 That's fine.

01:48:26.000 All that kind of stuff.

01:48:27.000 Prostitution should be legal. 1.00

01:48:28.000 I think all that is true.

01:48:29.000 But from a governmental standpoint, I think that the government has a place.

01:48:33.000 I think that the government can do positive things that only the government can do.

01:48:37.000 And so I'm also a protectionist and stuff.

01:48:40.000 So I also don't believe in a lot of libertarian mantra.

01:48:44.000 A lot of people call me a libertarian, but I haven't called myself that in a long time.

01:48:48.000 What makes you lean towards conservatism?

01:48:50.000 But conservatism to me is simply the idea that government shouldn't be involved where it doesn't need to be involved if there's no justification for it.

01:49:00.000 Right.

01:49:00.000 But if someone looked at you, they wouldn't think conservative.

01:49:03.000 You've got an earring, you've got tattoos, you're a young guy, you look like, not a hipster, I wouldn't say a hipster, but you're millennial-esque.

01:49:12.000 It was funny.

01:49:13.000 I was listening to some guy talking about me on one of his political shows, and he's like, and he presents as hip.

01:49:18.000 And I'm like, no one's ever called me.

01:49:19.000 Yeah, he presents as hip.

01:49:20.000 And he told me I had a lot of bad ideas, too.

01:49:22.000 But I was like, no one's ever called me hip before.

01:49:26.000 Is that even a thing anymore?

01:49:28.000 Hipster?

01:49:28.000 Hipster, yeah.

01:49:29.000 Is there hip?

01:49:30.000 I guess.

01:49:30.000 I mean, I guess.

01:49:31.000 I don't even really understand exactly.

01:49:33.000 You know a hipster when you see one, but I still can't really tell you what it means.

01:49:36.000 You can see some of them, man, for sure.

01:49:37.000 You see them coming.

01:49:38.000 Yeah, with the big, you know, sometimes the big 80s glasses and the crazy, I don't know, to each his own.

01:49:44.000 But I consider myself a conservative simply because I believe that the government is too big.

01:49:49.000 I think that the government doesn't need to be involved in everything it's involved in.

01:49:52.000 And I think that the idea of conservatism is simply inconsistent.

01:49:57.000 I think the conservative position on the global women's right to choose is pro-choice.

01:50:01.000 I don't think it's pro-life.

01:50:03.000 I think that the conservative, because it means that the government's not telling you what to do.

01:50:06.000 Just as the government doesn't have the right to have confiscatory taxes, just like the government doesn't have the right to take your guns, the government doesn't have the right to tell you you can't marry a man if you're a man, and the government doesn't have a right to tell you that you can't have an abortion.

01:50:19.000 So the true classic sense of conservative ideals versus what we see today, where it's sort of a mixture of conservative philosophy but the religious influence.

01:50:37.000 Right.

01:50:45.000 The map has changed.

01:50:46.000 In American politics until, really, the Civil War, parties were coming and going constantly.

01:50:52.000 The federalists and anti-federalists, by the time James Madison and James Monroe were president, those were antiquated terms.

01:50:59.000 Those were only five presidents in between Monroe and Washington.

01:51:05.000 I think?

01:51:25.000 To your point, the reason that conservatism and liberalism aren't in these neat buckets anymore is because they're tied to these parties and they have to constantly justify themselves.

01:51:33.000 The Republicans under Ulysses S. Grant and Teddy Roosevelt were the original progressives.

01:51:37.000 They were the ones that wanted land to be set aside for national parks.

01:51:40.000 They were the ones that freed, obviously, the slaves.

01:51:43.000 Not so much Teddy Roosevelt as much as Ulysses S. Grant.

01:51:45.000 And all these kinds of things.

01:51:46.000 And suddenly everything changes.

01:51:47.000 And then suddenly everything changes again.

01:51:49.000 And so on and so forth.

01:51:50.000 And so none of these words have any definitions anymore.

01:51:52.000 Which is why I didn't identify with Republicanism.

01:51:55.000 I consider myself a moderate conservative, but what's conservative about evangelicalism?

01:52:00.000 What's conservative about even ideas like free trade and stuff like that?

01:52:06.000 The idea of just having these open markets that destroy your ability to manufacture things, that drive wages down, that do all these kinds of things.

01:52:13.000 There's nothing conservative about that at all.

01:52:16.000 To me, I was like, I just have to find my own way forward, so I just consider myself independent.

01:52:21.000 And I feel like I'm consistent in what I say, because I think you can match them all up.

01:52:26.000 And I don't think there's any consistency in saying, you can't marry this man, but don't take my gun.

01:52:32.000 You can't have this polygamous relationship, but we should have prayer in school. 1.00

01:52:38.000 These things don't make sense to me.

01:52:40.000 You have to be consistent.

01:52:42.000 Well, the religious things always seem to me to be compromises to get the support of the religious right.

01:52:47.000 It seems like they move towards those directions because it sort of reinforces the power that they have behind them because they're the only candidates that are willing to do that, right?

01:52:55.000 Right.

01:52:55.000 Because the left is not willing to go down that religious road in the sense of a woman's right to choose, in the sense of a lot of things that they get liberals to support them.

01:53:06.000 It would be antithetical.

01:53:08.000 They would lose that support. 0.94

01:53:09.000 But do you think that having a guy like Trump in office, that one of the good things about having a guy that's obviously fairly unhinged and ridiculous is that we need to reconsider what it is to be a president. 0.96

01:53:24.000 And this idea that this guy could get into this position by just sort of conning everybody and doing a lot of Make America Great Again speeches and Saying a lot of crazy shit about we're going to build that wall 10 feet higher and all the nutty rhetoric that went on during the camp. 0.94

01:53:42.000 And then seeing him in office and seeing... 0.77

01:53:45.000 Who knows if he's even going to get out of these four years without going to jail, right?

01:53:48.000 Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

01:53:49.000 I mean, I think you can glean positive and obviously negative things out of Trump's administration so far, right?

01:53:56.000 What do you glean positive?

01:53:57.000 I think what's positive is what we were talking about earlier, that the system works.

01:54:00.000 That, like, nothing has broken down at all.

01:54:03.000 In fact, like, we've seen from the circuit courts all the way to the Supreme Court and with Congress that there actually are, these are legitimately viable and independent bodies in the checks and balance system, right?

01:54:15.000 And this is why I think it's so deeply offensive to, you know, in a way, to be like, well, fascism's alive in America.

01:54:21.000 And I'm like, it's not.

01:54:23.000 What fascism would have looked like from a governmental standpoint is Trump's coming in, suspending the Supreme Court, dismissing Congress, and trying all these crazy things that would have happened.

01:54:31.000 That's what fascism looks like.

01:54:33.000 What fascism doesn't look like is you passing a travel ban and the Supreme Court saying no, and then you're trying to pass it again, and then the circuits courts say no, you know?

01:54:40.000 And that's not what fascism looks like.

01:54:42.000 That's what Republicanism, small r, Republicanism looks like.

01:54:45.000 And so I think we can glean positive things out of this.

01:54:48.000 People got mad at me after the election because I was like, the world's not ending.

01:54:51.000 I actually tweeted it that night.

01:54:53.000 People were losing their minds.

01:54:54.000 I'm like...

01:54:55.000 It's going to be fine.

01:54:56.000 Well, people are super emotional.

01:54:58.000 They were, but understand what we've survived.

01:55:00.000 Understand when we've had elections, like what has happened, right?

01:55:02.000 We had an election in 1860, and really even in 1856 and 1852 when things started to really start to fall apart.

01:55:10.000 And we had one in 1864 during the Civil War.

01:55:12.000 We had an election in 1932 during the Depression.

01:55:15.000 We had an election in 1944 when we were fighting the Nazis and the Japanese at the same time.

01:55:19.000 We can survive this.

01:55:21.000 No one came in and said, like, we don't need an election now, or untoward things were happening.

01:55:26.000 We still went through the rigors of our system every four years.

01:55:29.000 Everything stood up.

01:55:31.000 Everything was fine.

01:55:32.000 And the suggestion that Donald Trump is going to be the guy that...

01:55:36.000 The Confederates didn't do it.

01:55:37.000 The Nazis didn't do it. 0.78

01:55:38.000 The Japanese didn't do it. 1.00

01:55:38.000 Nothing did it. 1.00

01:55:39.000 Donald Trump's going to be the one that destroys the American Republic.

01:55:41.000 It's absurd.

01:55:42.000 And so I take...

01:55:44.000 I take that as a positive.

01:55:45.000 But what I take as a negative is we're just wasting time.

01:55:48.000 It's just time wasted.

01:55:49.000 It's good theater.

01:55:50.000 It's entertaining.

01:55:51.000 But it's not funny because they've not gotten anything done.

01:55:55.000 And I want tax cuts.

01:55:57.000 I think that's great.

01:55:58.000 I want some reasonable things happening that the Congress can pass with Trump to sign.

01:56:03.000 But I think these are just wasted four years.

01:56:05.000 And so that's not funny at all.

01:56:06.000 It's making the problems worse.

01:56:08.000 A lot of wheels spinning.

01:56:09.000 Exactly.

01:56:10.000 We have deep problems.

01:56:11.000 $20 trillion in debt.

01:56:12.000 A massive deficit.

01:56:14.000 We're spending $600 billion on our military.

01:56:17.000 $600 billion on our military.

01:56:20.000 It's nuts.

01:56:21.000 It's insane.

01:56:22.000 We have to start asking ourselves questions of geopolitics.

01:56:24.000 Do we need to be in Japan anymore?

01:56:26.000 Do we need to have these bases in Poland? 0.98

01:56:28.000 Do we need to, you know, we have a lot, but we can't get past this buffoon that's our president. 0.95

01:56:32.000 In order to start asking ourselves deep questions. 0.96

01:56:34.000 So we just have to punt until a normal person's in there again.

01:56:37.000 And I think we'll get a normal person.

01:56:38.000 I think he'll survive his term, but I don't think he'll run again.

01:56:41.000 I'm of the mind that he won't run again.

01:56:43.000 Really?

01:56:43.000 But he's already ran for re-election.

01:56:45.000 He's already filed.

01:56:46.000 Well, yeah, he's filing and he's raising money.

01:56:47.000 But I think that once Kellyanne Conway and these other people that engineered the election for him to begin with, after the midterms, which I think are going to be interesting, I think the midterms actually benefit in some ways the Republicans because of the map in the Senate.

01:56:59.000 But I think that when it becomes clear that he cannot win...

01:57:03.000 You really don't think he'll win again?

01:57:04.000 I don't...

01:57:05.000 So it's interesting because I'm friends with...

01:57:07.000 I'm good friends.

01:57:07.000 I went to college with this girl who's a lobbyist in Washington.

01:57:10.000 She's a Democrat and she's pretty well connected.

01:57:13.000 And I had dinner with her a couple weeks ago and she was like, not only will Trump run again, he'll win.

01:57:17.000 And this was when everything was going on and all this, and I'm like, I just don't see him subjecting himself to the possibility of losing.

01:57:23.000 He won once.

01:57:24.000 And it reminds me of 2004 when Bush won again, but he also won the popular vote.

01:57:29.000 He beat Kerry, and it kind of legitimized himself.

01:57:31.000 I think that Trump is going to risk...

01:57:34.000 Further illegitimizing himself by subjecting himself to, you know, not only a primary, which is gonna happen, which is the death knell for an incumbent.

01:57:42.000 I think, ask Gerald Ford, ask Jimmy Carter how that went for them when they were primaried because they were so unpopular.

01:57:47.000 And then he goes in and there's gonna be, if the Democrats are smart, they put someone up that's really good.

01:57:51.000 And I also think there's gonna be an independent candidate that's gonna screw everything up as well.

01:57:56.000 I think he has a very, very high likelihood of running again.

01:58:00.000 And I think he absolutely could win again.

01:58:02.000 Do you think he'll win the primary?

01:58:03.000 Because I'm not even sure he would get through the primary.

01:58:05.000 I don't know.

01:58:05.000 I mean, it all depends on what happens over the next three years.

01:58:09.000 Obviously, I'm in no way, shape, or form a political expert.

01:58:13.000 But I think that...

01:58:16.000 We got a lot of dummies in this country, and all we need is momentum.

01:58:19.000 All you need is one event, some big thing to happen where Donald Trump solves a problem.

01:58:24.000 Do you remember how happy people were with George Bush directly after September 11th?

01:58:30.000 Yeah.

01:58:31.000 Right after September 11th, and he made a bunch of speeches and said a bunch of things, and his approval rating shot up.

01:58:37.000 Like 90% or something like that.

01:58:38.000 It shot up.

01:58:39.000 And people were very excited and they were like this is this is the reason why we need sort of a good old boy president Because when push comes to shove they know how to get the men in uniform Behind it and just take care of this problem with military might and make America great again and all that kind of horseshit If something like that happens with Trump and Trump you remember how he had that one speech Jamie can you give me another one of these things,

01:59:02.000 please?

01:59:04.000 We had that one speech Where everybody's like, oh, that was presidential.

01:59:10.000 He had one presidential speech where he spoke in front of Congress and everyone was clapping and he said a bunch of things.

01:59:15.000 All you need, all he needs is one event, something that happens, where he steps up and manages it with a reasonable vocabulary.

01:59:27.000 And does things that people approve of, especially some sort of a catastrophic situation or any sort of a military situation.

01:59:35.000 If we have to deal with North Korea, if we have to deal with something where there's like real legitimate concerns. 0.57

01:59:42.000 Thanks, buddy.

01:59:43.000 If that happens and he manages it, people get scared and they don't want change.

01:59:48.000 I think if that happens, it's entirely likely.

01:59:51.000 If we have to deal with some sort of a catastrophe, some sort of a tragedy, some sort of an attack or an event, and Donald Trump manages it well, it's entirely likely that he could be president.

02:00:01.000 Sure, there could be a moment like that.

02:00:03.000 I wouldn't throw anything past him specifically because I and many other people were so wrong about his ability to win to begin with.

02:00:10.000 I kept saying he's going to do better and get more votes than people thought, but I didn't think he had a prayer of winning.

02:00:18.000 But there are certain things you can look at where it's like, well, it's about 50,000 votes along three states that he even won at all.

02:00:22.000 The vote was suppressed pretty...

02:00:24.000 And I'm not saying it was actively suppressed.

02:00:26.000 People just weren't enthusiastic about this, so people weren't out there to vote.

02:00:28.000 Now people see the consequences of not voting.

02:00:31.000 I don't think that...

02:00:32.000 I don't think that it's like the...

02:00:34.000 I guess what I'm saying is that the prognostication that this is the end of the world, right?

02:00:38.000 Like that Donald Trump being president...

02:00:40.000 We've had terrible presidents.

02:00:41.000 You know, like we've had really bad presidents. 0.94

02:00:43.000 But he's the worst.

02:00:44.000 Yeah, in some sense, he's... 1.00

02:00:48.000 I'll say that he's the most incompetent. 0.99

02:00:49.000 We've had some presidents that were just in shitty situations that they couldn't manage. 0.99

02:00:53.000 Long time ago. 0.84

02:00:54.000 Yeah, I would say Hoover's probably the last one, and James Buchanan obviously was an awful president.

02:00:58.000 In 1857, the state started to secede when he was president, and he couldn't do anything about it.

02:01:04.000 So we've had really dire, serious situations under presidents that were in over their heads.

02:01:09.000 But there also is no footage of them.

02:01:11.000 There's no film.

02:01:12.000 You have to really go back and read history to understand the consequences of their actions.

02:01:16.000 We're seeing all this play out in real time.

02:01:18.000 We're seeing the poverty of his vocabulary, the way he communicates in the press, the way he pats himself on the back.

02:01:25.000 Like the other day, he said he has one of the great memories of all time.

02:01:29.000 He says things that are just preposterous.

02:01:31.000 The one about him being in Ivy League.

02:01:32.000 I went to an Ivy League school.

02:01:33.000 I'm intelligent. 0.89

02:01:34.000 I'm like, I'm one of the guys that says, I don't think he's dumb at all. 0.98

02:01:37.000 I don't think he's stupid. 1.00

02:01:38.000 I just think he's in over his head. 0.99

02:01:40.000 Did you ever see him in the 90s talk about running for president?

02:01:43.000 You ever see that video footage?

02:01:45.000 I think it was on Charlie Rose or something like that.

02:01:47.000 Starting in 88, he started talking about it.

02:01:48.000 Yeah, all the way through.

02:01:49.000 And when you go back and listen to that, like, first of all, did something happen to his brain?

02:01:55.000 Like, why is he so clunky now? 0.89

02:01:58.000 Like, why are his sentences so poorly formed, and why is his speech pattern so shitty now? 0.64

02:02:03.000 I mean, that's what you've got to wonder about, like, old dudes.

02:02:06.000 They get to a certain age, especially guys like him who don't exercise, don't eat well.

02:02:10.000 Right.

02:02:10.000 He has a KFC bucket and all that.

02:02:11.000 Yeah, he's got a big, fat gut, and he's just...

02:02:13.000 Right.

02:02:14.000 Like, how well are his neurons firing, you know?

02:02:17.000 Yeah, he's...

02:02:19.000 See if you can find that video of him back from...

02:02:22.000 You got it?

02:02:23.000 Like, watch this.

02:02:24.000 Listen to this.

02:02:25.000 I think that if you had to do it again, I'm not sure you could.

02:02:29.000 I went through a period of two years that was truly tough.

02:02:33.000 Tough in what way?

02:02:35.000 Well, you know, you have parents, and you have people that adore you, and you have people that, for 15 years, nothing went wrong.

02:02:42.000 And then all of a sudden, the world seems to be coming to an end.

02:02:46.000 I mean, it just seems to be coming.

02:02:48.000 And it's just, it was just sort of an incredible experience for me.

02:02:52.000 This is him, he humbled, talking about going bankrupt.

02:02:56.000 I'd like to hear him talk about, like, running for president, though.

02:02:59.000 My father wouldn't have been in a position to bail me out, but he certainly helped.

02:03:03.000 And, you know, morally and...

02:03:04.000 It's the whole interview.

02:03:05.000 It took an hour long.

02:03:06.000 Oh, okay.

02:03:06.000 My mother was great.

02:03:07.000 I have a sister who's a fellow judge.

02:03:08.000 You mean to try to find that particular thing?

02:03:09.000 She's very, very... 0.98

02:03:11.000 You mean to find that particular thing?

02:03:11.000 No, no, no.

02:03:11.000 Just listen to his speech pattern here.

02:03:13.000 I never knew as to loyalty whether or not she'd be there or wouldn't be there.

02:03:16.000 And she was there in spades.

02:03:18.000 Other people were there.

02:03:19.000 But, you know, the incredible thing is you can't really tell.

02:03:22.000 You can't really tell who's going to be there, who's not.

02:03:25.000 I would have bet my life on certain people.

02:03:29.000 I would have said, politically speaking, that somebody that you know, Andrew Stein, would have been there.

02:03:34.000 And he wasn't.

02:03:35.000 He wasn't there for what?

02:03:37.000 He wasn't there in terms of, for fifteen years I supported Andrew Stein, supported him.

02:03:42.000 I never asked him for a thing.

02:03:44.000 When I needed a vote on Riverside South, until the very end, when everybody else was on board, Andrew was not there.

02:03:51.000 And I was really surprised at that.

02:03:53.000 Now, ultimately, he was there.

02:03:55.000 But it shouldn't have been so difficult.

02:03:57.000 It really shouldn't have been so difficult.

02:03:58.000 But here comes one of the things they say about you is that there ticks within you a vindictiveness about that.

02:04:05.000 And you're not going to forget that.

02:04:07.000 And part of the Trump style is that at some point you're going to try to get Stein back.

02:04:12.000 Well, I don't think I'm going to try and get Stein back.

02:04:15.000 I'm just disappointed.

02:04:16.000 I'm disappointed in other people.

02:04:18.000 And I'm not disappointed in some.

02:04:20.000 I mean, there have been people there.

02:04:21.000 My point is, he seems like a much more reasonable person.

02:04:24.000 Yeah, cogent.

02:04:25.000 It could be age.

02:04:27.000 Maybe he's a little senile.

02:04:29.000 I have no idea.

02:04:30.000 Also, I think, and this is something I've been really battling, not battling, but bouncing around in my head a lot lately, is that I think this...

02:04:41.000 This hate of him, the constant insults, the attacks on him, the constant...

02:04:46.000 I mean, he blocks people on Twitter all the time, and now people are suing him to say that he can't block them on Twitter anymore.

02:04:52.000 People are being very petulant about that. 0.98

02:04:53.000 But all of this, like the Saturday Night Live satires of him, all the shit that they do is... 0.99

02:05:01.000 Ramping up his mania and it's it's actually bad for all of us You know in that you don't get someone to change by going hey fucking change You know you're a piece of shit like that doesn't make people change it makes people aware that you hate them and depending entirely upon their personality whether they're reflective or introspective how they how they react to that he seems to react to it by By, 0.99

02:05:26.000 like, doubling down and by getting more aggressively defensive and more self-aggrandizing and more self-congratulatory. 0.99

02:05:36.000 You know, he seems to get more Trump.

02:05:38.000 Yeah.

02:05:39.000 You know, it's almost like he's the Hulk.

02:05:40.000 Like, you ever see when they shoot the Hulk, he gets bigger?

02:05:43.000 Right, right.

02:05:43.000 Yeah, it's...

02:05:44.000 You know, he definitely...

02:05:45.000 He doesn't deal with...

02:05:48.000 He's in a situation where someone needs to lower their rifles, right? 0.99

02:05:52.000 And after he was elected, I thought for sure that smart people in his transition team, and he's not surrounded by dumb people. 0.99

02:06:02.000 He's surrounded by inexperienced political operatives, but he's not surrounded by dumb people. 0.90

02:06:05.000 That someone at some point would have said, like, we can now get down to the act of governing. 0.95

02:06:09.000 And I'm of the mind that if he just started acting more normal...

02:06:12.000 If he stopped tweeting so much, if he just spoke in a more normal way, did normal things, people would have forgotten a lot of what happened during the campaign.

02:06:19.000 And he would have been in much better shape to get legislative goals through and stuff like that.

02:06:23.000 But he can't help himself.

02:06:27.000 And that's why I think this destructive...

02:06:29.000 I just don't know that the American people are going to want this again.

02:06:32.000 I think that he has a base of 30-35% that will be there.

02:06:37.000 But isn't that what Obama had at his lowest?

02:06:41.000 Approval ratings?

02:06:42.000 Yeah, in his second term, I think he was down to that.

02:06:44.000 I think his lowest approval ratings were higher than Trump's lowest, but he's in the neighborhood.

02:06:51.000 Yeah, I'm not even saying...

02:06:53.000 Because approval ratings are fickle. 0.99

02:06:54.000 You can do all sorts of shit to manipulate those numbers. 0.84

02:06:57.000 And Trump would, interestingly and rightfully, maybe say, look at the economy. 0.99

02:07:01.000 It's doing great.

02:07:01.000 Look at the stock market.

02:07:02.000 It's doing great.

02:07:03.000 But the economy was on...

02:07:04.000 It's sort of deceptive, right?

02:07:05.000 Because the economy was on an upward trend.

02:07:07.000 Right, and again, it's all waiting.

02:07:09.000 And he sort of caught that wave.

02:07:10.000 But there is a real belief by business people that Donald Trump is going to make things easier for them because of his nature. 1.00

02:07:17.000 The fuck, Jamie? 1.00

02:07:18.000 What happened? 1.00

02:07:19.000 Newsweek had an autoplay. 1.00

02:07:21.000 Those motherfuckers with their ads. 1.00

02:07:23.000 We have this sense that That business people think that he's going to alleviate restrictions, he's going to make things easier, he's going to open up doors, and he's going to do things that some people think are very unpopular. 0.99

02:07:37.000 Like, one of the things he's done is he made it so you can bring back lion trophies now, again, from Africa.

02:07:43.000 So if people want to go to Africa and shoot lions, you can bring them over.

02:07:47.000 Which is bizarre.

02:07:49.000 It doesn't make any...

02:07:51.000 No other president.

02:07:52.000 What is this?

02:07:53.000 Trump's approval rating is bad.

02:07:55.000 Day 197 of his presidency, 530 pegged it at just 37%.

02:08:00.000 No other president in history of moderate polling had an approval rate so dismal on day 197. According to 538's tracker, former President Gerald Ford came close to matching Trump but could have boasted an approval rate of nearly 2.5% points higher.

02:08:18.000 It wouldn't be super surprising to have Obama fall into that high 30s or low 40s in his second term because that's when they don't care anymore.

02:08:24.000 Yeah.

02:08:25.000 And that's when they really start to take initiative and do certain things.

02:08:28.000 I saw his approval.

02:08:29.000 I didn't see it below like 47%.

02:08:31.000 Obama?

02:08:32.000 Yeah.

02:08:32.000 Hmm.

02:08:33.000 He must have been lower.

02:08:33.000 Oh, is this...

02:08:34.000 Disproval is a little different than approval, so...

02:08:37.000 Oh, disapproval?

02:08:38.000 That's true.

02:08:38.000 Oh, there's a disapproval rating?

02:08:40.000 Yeah.

02:08:40.000 Do you disapprove or do you approve?

02:08:42.000 Well, yeah, because you can be neutral on that.

02:08:44.000 So if there's a disapproval rating of 50%, that doesn't mean there's an approval rating of 50%.

02:08:48.000 Correct.

02:08:48.000 Right.

02:08:49.000 Okay.

02:08:49.000 I think, you know, it's funny because I think with...

02:08:53.000 There are certain things that I think people don't understand that are unpopular that do need to be done specifically for businesses.

02:09:01.000 I own a business.

02:09:02.000 I've owned two of them.

02:09:03.000 You run your own business with all of your ventures as well.

02:09:07.000 And it's very hard.

02:09:08.000 And a lot of people look at...

02:09:10.000 Just from an administrative paperwork standpoint, taxes, all those kinds of things, it's awful.

02:09:15.000 And I think a lot of people point at business big and small and they look at them as these ways you can get blood out of a stone and extract as much money out of them as possible and all these kinds of things.

02:09:23.000 And a lot of people are not sympathetic to it because, no offense, they have no idea what they're talking about.

02:09:27.000 And I've been watching The West Wing again, which I love.

02:09:29.000 I love that show.

02:09:30.000 Never watched it.

02:09:31.000 Oh, it's fantastic.

02:09:31.000 You'd probably love it.

02:09:32.000 You should check it out.

02:09:33.000 It's just a great show.

02:09:34.000 And one of the things they say in there is that the major difference...

02:09:37.000 People call us a democracy, but we're not a democracy.

02:09:39.000 We're a republic.

02:09:40.000 And the idea is that you vote for people that go make decisions on your behalf.

02:09:44.000 And sometimes those decisions are going to be unpopular, but some people do know better than others.

02:09:49.000 And so there are certain things...

02:09:50.000 I don't necessarily judge a move based only on popularity, because what does society at large know about running a business?

02:09:56.000 Nothing.

02:09:57.000 So you have to ask people that understand what it is to run a business and how you can make that easier.

02:10:01.000 So you can't judge things based on that only.

02:10:03.000 My major concern with him, though, is that he's so unpopular, even in his own party, and even specifically with the House, that because they are constantly up for re-election, that they haven't had one legislative win in the entire time he's been president.

02:10:19.000 Doesn't he not have all the positions fully staffed as well?

02:10:22.000 Yeah, there are things, and that's not uncommon either.

02:10:25.000 Sometimes things go for years without being staffed or whatever.

02:10:28.000 That seems so crazy. 0.96

02:10:30.000 How the fuck do you take office without all the pieces in place? 0.99

02:10:34.000 Who knows? 0.99

02:10:35.000 The conspiracy theories run deep on this one, but I don't think he thought he was going to win.

02:10:38.000 And I'm not even sure he wanted to win.

02:10:39.000 And I don't think that they had a real transition.

02:10:44.000 I read Hillary Clinton's book, What Happened, which is an interesting book.

02:10:47.000 You read the whole thing?

02:10:48.000 Yep.

02:10:48.000 You okay?

02:10:49.000 Yeah, I'm okay.

02:10:49.000 Jesus, what happened?

02:10:50.000 Well, because I'd be interested...

02:10:51.000 Were you high?

02:10:53.000 Part of the time, yeah.

02:10:55.000 Laying in the bathtub, reading.

02:10:58.000 It seems like you'd have to be high to read.

02:11:00.000 But I wanted a perspective, right?

02:11:01.000 I think it's just interesting.

02:11:02.000 What was it?

02:11:03.000 Well, there's a lot of things in there, but one of the things she was talking about was that they were fully prepared for their transition, which is not a surprise.

02:11:11.000 She was actually talking about in October, she started taking regular meetings, because they assumed that she was going to win, about how she was going to staff things and the decisions they were going to make in the first 100 days.

02:11:19.000 And I think you just have something that's over-the-top bravado, right?

02:11:23.000 And on the other end, ironically for someone with so much bravado, you have someone that just was totally not prepared to win.

02:11:29.000 Because I don't think anyone inside, except for maybe Kellyanne Conway, was telling...

02:11:33.000 Well, do you think that's the case, or do you think he was just concentrating entirely on winning and then figure it out once he gets in there?

02:11:37.000 Maybe, but you should...

02:11:39.000 I mean, it could be anything.

02:11:40.000 The definitive book on this has not been written yet, unfortunately.

02:11:42.000 And actually, Mark Halpern was writing that book, and now he's finished with that.

02:11:46.000 You realize that he has such a limited understanding of what even his powers are and what even like What was the guy he spoke to? 0.99

02:11:54.000 We said I had a conversation with the president of the US Virgin Islands like hey, you're the president of the US Virgin Islands Yeah, he makes he makes some stupid. 1.00

02:12:01.000 He makes some stupid mistakes. 0.99

02:12:02.000 He he doesn't I mean, I remember Puerto Rico Yeah, that was there's some moments like that where I'm like you're fun. 1.00

02:12:09.000 You're funny But unfortunately, the situation...

02:12:12.000 Doesn't call for being funny all the time.

02:12:13.000 Yeah, it's not humorous.

02:12:14.000 It's not a humorous situation.

02:12:15.000 And I feel like specifically with...

02:12:18.000 In terms of governance, I think he just...

02:12:21.000 Like, I remember the debates where he didn't know what the nuclear triad was, which is like... 0.99

02:12:25.000 The fuck do you not know what the nuclear triad is? 0.97

02:12:27.000 Where he's speaking around issues that are somewhat basic, that someone that's running for president should know. 0.99

02:12:34.000 And when you multiply that by not being a candidate, but by being the man in the office and then being inundated by the realities of the office, he was just ill-prepared for it.

02:12:42.000 And part of the reason he won is because he was an outsider.

02:12:45.000 And part of being an outsider is alienating everyone around you that is an insider.

02:12:49.000 So he has no one, very few people that are willing to work for him that are capable.

02:12:53.000 Which is why I think that, you know, there's this idea, I don't know if you've read about it, there's this idea that there's basically a soft coup going on in the American government right now.

02:13:02.000 Have you talked about, have you heard about this at all?

02:13:03.000 That General Mattis, who's Secretary of Defense, and then General Kelly, who's the Chief of Staff, are basically running things.

02:13:09.000 And that...

02:13:11.000 And it's kind of a scary idea because military coups are, even if they're soft, they're not constitutional, but that people take kind of solace in this because they're like, well, people that are men of honor are kind of making sure nothing crazy happens.

02:13:26.000 Right.

02:13:26.000 And I'm like, but again, this is such a waste of time.

02:13:28.000 But is that a soft coup or is that just he has given over the reins to the military for the first time ever?

02:13:34.000 Because most of the time the president is in charge and the military has to come to the president for direction and for guidance and for approval.

02:13:44.000 Whereas Donald Trump has kind of said, look, you people know what to do better than anybody.

02:13:48.000 Do what you got to do.

02:13:50.000 It could be that.

02:13:50.000 I mean, yeah, it could be voluntary, but it's still its own sort of coup because that's not what you're supposed to do.

02:13:56.000 It's not what you're supposed to do.

02:13:57.000 Now, I trust the military.

02:13:58.000 Don't you trust them better than him, though?

02:14:00.000 Yes, absolutely.

02:14:00.000 Well, that's what I was going to say was that typically a military coup in history is a super negative connotation.

02:14:05.000 Egyptians, Libyans, whatever the case might be, it always turns out bad. 1.00

02:14:08.000 But we have an honor-driven military, I think, in the United States, above all others, that will take care of things and hand it over to If necessary.

02:14:17.000 But the interesting thing that people have been writing and talking about is what happens if he wants something crazy done and they just don't do it?

02:14:23.000 We've never had a situation like that.

02:14:26.000 What's going on on the Korean Peninsula, for instance?

02:14:29.000 Very dangerous situation.

02:14:30.000 Very dangerous situation.

02:14:32.000 What if he goes to escalate and they're like, we're not doing that?

02:14:35.000 That's actually the first time that we know in recorded history where...

02:14:39.000 Where the military is not responding to the civilian government.

02:14:43.000 So it opens all these hypothetical interesting things to think about, but things that haven't come to pass yet. 0.98

02:14:50.000 Yeah, I mean, he hasn't requested anything completely bizarre yet, but he's said some completely bizarre shit. 0.93

02:14:56.000 I mean, he's essentially violated...

02:15:00.000 The United Nations Code, or how you communicate with other governments, right?

02:15:05.000 I mean, he's threatened them.

02:15:07.000 What was it?

02:15:08.000 Terrible, horrible things?

02:15:09.000 Fire and fury?

02:15:10.000 Yeah, fire and fury, which is funny.

02:15:13.000 What a lot of people didn't glean out of that was that he was clearly watching Harry Truman videos.

02:15:19.000 Harry Truman said pretty much the same thing before he dropped a nuclear bomb on Japan.

02:15:23.000 And there's videos of it.

02:15:37.000 It's especially precarious because, yes, a nuclear-armed North Korea is not ideal, but if you read any foreign policy papers or anything out of think tanks, there's no good solution out of this. 0.53

02:15:47.000 And for him to be so flippant Yeah.

02:16:09.000 Not a good situation.

02:16:11.000 It's got a very comic book sensibility to it that, you know, you go and drop some nukes on North Korea and everything's solved.

02:16:16.000 Problem solved!

02:16:19.000 No, you just started a gigantic chain of events that could lead to a bomb blowing off in a major American city or more.

02:16:26.000 Yeah, I mean, at the very least, you're talking about, even if you disabled North Korea's nuclear capabilities, we don't really understand how their ICBMs work.

02:16:34.000 I was reading something today where they actually had a major collapse at their nuclear site of 200 people dead, like tunnels collapse and stuff like that.

02:16:40.000 Like, they're actually blowing up so many bombs that they're actually weakening their own...

02:16:46.000 We're good to go.

02:17:09.000 This isn't something that a man who doesn't understand things needs to be trifling with.

02:17:14.000 I would love nothing more than to have North Korea taken down a peg. 0.88

02:17:18.000 How do you think he communicates with the military?

02:17:21.000 First of all, how does he have the time to do everything he's doing?

02:17:25.000 Because he doesn't.

02:17:26.000 I'll answer it before I even ask him.

02:17:29.000 No human has the time to be the president.

02:17:32.000 It's one of the problems of being president.

02:17:34.000 You were talking about earlier how you have businesses and you run things and how complicated and difficult it is.

02:17:39.000 And those things are nothing!

02:17:42.000 No, nothing compared to being the president.

02:17:43.000 Nothing!

02:17:43.000 And he's got to deal with the economic situation.

02:17:46.000 He's got to deal with the military.

02:17:48.000 He's got to deal with immigration. 1.00

02:17:50.000 He's trying to build a fucking wall to Mexico. 0.99

02:17:52.000 He's trying to bring jobs back to America. 1.00

02:17:54.000 And he's playing golf 150 times.

02:17:56.000 Oh, he's played golf 72 times.

02:17:59.000 Cost to taxpayer.

02:18:00.000 $76,236,013.

02:18:03.000 At least.

02:18:05.000 What is this website?

02:18:06.000 I didn't know.

02:18:07.000 Trumpgolfcount.com.

02:18:08.000 Oh, God.

02:18:09.000 72 visits to golf clubs since inauguration, which confirmed golfing on at least 33 visits. 1.00

02:18:17.000 Goddamn. 0.92

02:18:17.000 See our frequently asked questions for answers to frequently asked questions and our complete data table for the list of Trump's outings. 0.92

02:18:25.000 It's hilarious.

02:18:26.000 No, I mean, it's the most complicated and all-encompassing jobs imaginable.

02:18:32.000 Yeah, and he's out golfing.

02:18:33.000 Yeah, you've got to have rest and relaxation.

02:18:35.000 I don't begrudge you that, but I wonder, again, because of the alienation that went on through the primaries and into the campaign, when you have people that are simply not willing to work for you that are very capable, what do you do?

02:18:45.000 I don't know.

02:18:45.000 I think that's why nothing's happening.

02:18:47.000 That's why when they had the healthcare thing kind of crop up early in the administration, they weren't prepared.

02:18:53.000 They still have not really released all the details of their tax plan.

02:18:56.000 It's like, nothing is really...

02:19:00.000 I'm telling you, Joe, that's the major thing that's a bummer to me is it's just a wasted time.

02:19:04.000 It's just wasted time.

02:19:05.000 We do not have time for this.

02:19:07.000 And again, I don't think anybody has enough time to actually be the president, but I wonder what conversations he's having with the military and how those decisions get made.

02:19:15.000 I don't really understand the process enough. 0.98

02:19:18.000 To know, like, say, if North Korea does something stupid, what are the decisions? 0.98

02:19:23.000 And who brings those decisions to the president? 0.99

02:19:25.000 Who brings the suggestions?

02:19:27.000 Who lays out the possibilities?

02:19:30.000 I mean, how does that go?

02:19:31.000 I think, from what I understand, the way it works is that there's a situation room in the White House.

02:19:36.000 The Joint Chiefs of Staff and the National Security Advisor meet there to discuss things.

02:19:40.000 The president comes in when they're ready to present him with things.

02:19:43.000 They present him, based on the branch that's dealing with it, what's happening, and then they give him You know, what are reasonable responses or, you know, wait and see kind of things or whatever.

02:19:51.000 And I think that's how it goes down.

02:19:54.000 And then he tells, you know, the Joint Chiefs to to act on his on his, you know, direction.

02:19:58.000 That's a great name for room to the situation room.

02:20:02.000 With Wolf Blitzer, Situation Room.

02:20:05.000 How has he called his own show, The Situation Room?

02:20:08.000 I don't know.

02:20:08.000 He's getting away with it, though.

02:20:09.000 That's fucking rude. 0.99

02:20:10.000 I know. 0.99

02:20:11.000 He's getting away with it.

02:20:11.000 Wolf Blitzer's an interesting character.

02:20:12.000 A lot of these guys on cable news are interesting people to me, especially now.

02:20:16.000 How so?

02:20:17.000 Well, because there's always been partisans.

02:20:20.000 We were talking about William F. Buckley and Corbett Al before, right?

02:20:23.000 But there's no pretenses now.

02:20:25.000 About anything.

02:20:26.000 Like, no matter who you're watching, I don't...

02:20:28.000 I couldn't even tell you, like, a person who doesn't have an open ideological bent anymore and has some sort of...

02:20:35.000 It's kind of like a means to an end for them to get their information out there the way they want to.

02:20:40.000 There's no, like, Walter Cronkites anymore.

02:20:42.000 Right.

02:20:42.000 No completely objective journalists.

02:20:44.000 Yeah, which I would love.

02:20:44.000 I would love that.

02:20:45.000 But I don't really...

02:20:46.000 That's why I don't really trust anything the media says anymore.

02:20:47.000 It's not only Trump.

02:20:48.000 It's just, like, there's always an agenda.

02:20:49.000 Right.

02:20:50.000 Yeah, there's no one who's delivering it all with a straight face.

02:20:53.000 Everyone has an editorial bent to it.

02:20:55.000 And that's fine, but I wish that...

02:20:57.000 The only places you can really go to get straight up news now are the wires.

02:21:01.000 It's kind of like a little lonely, you know?

02:21:03.000 Go to AP and Reuters and then that's pretty much it.

02:21:06.000 What about the internet?

02:21:07.000 Is anybody doing a good job of disseminating objective...

02:21:11.000 I don't think so.

02:21:12.000 Not anyone that I've seen.

02:21:14.000 Seems like there's an opening for that, if someone could figure it out.

02:21:17.000 There is, but the thing is that the sad thing is I don't know if there's even an audience for it.

02:21:21.000 I think that people like you and I that might want a more objective stance to make up your own...

02:21:25.000 I remember I used to watch BBC World News on PBS in college because it was like this very outsider kind of like...

02:21:32.000 You know, a 40,000 foot view of what was going on.

02:21:35.000 And I feel like we don't even really have that anymore.

02:21:37.000 And I feel like the reason that those people don't exist is because there's no money there.

02:21:41.000 Yeah.

02:21:41.000 It seems like the big money's in preaching to the choir.

02:21:44.000 Absolutely.

02:21:44.000 And that's why what I was trying to do is like...

02:21:48.000 I take a lot of honor that I get fired on from every angle, which means that I'm doing something right.

02:21:52.000 It's not like only the left-wing people that don't like me.

02:21:54.000 It's not only the right-wing people that don't like me.

02:21:56.000 It's like everybody has some problem with me, which makes me feel like maybe I'm somewhere in the middle.

02:22:00.000 But I don't know if I have an agenda.

02:22:03.000 I guess I do.

02:22:03.000 But I have a point of view.

02:22:05.000 Fox News, to me, is the most fascinating about the news networks.

02:22:07.000 Because CNN seems almost like...

02:22:12.000 They're weighted down by rules and restrictions in a certain sense. 0.99

02:22:16.000 Whereas Fox News, you got Hannity, who's just fucking completely unhinged. 0.97

02:22:20.000 You had Bill O'Reilly. 1.00

02:22:21.000 He's trying to fuck everything that moves. 0.99

02:22:23.000 I mean, didn't that guy have like nine different sexual harassment lawsuits that he settled? 0.99

02:22:28.000 One of them for $35 million?

02:22:30.000 Yeah, $35 million. 0.99

02:22:31.000 What the fuck did he do? 0.98

02:22:33.000 I can't imagine how much money he really has from his books and stuff if he can even fork that much money over. 0.99

02:22:37.000 Because that was him, right?

02:22:38.000 That wasn't even Fox.

02:22:38.000 I don't even think that was Fox.

02:22:39.000 Bill O'Reilly files $5 million defamation suit over harassment claims.

02:22:46.000 He's trying to get some of it back.

02:22:48.000 Go back to that.

02:22:51.000 Let me read the text underneath it, please.

02:22:53.000 Former Fox News host Bill O'Reilly on Friday filed a defamation suit against former New Jersey state legislator Michael Panter following a Facebook post on Tuesday in which Panter detailed alleged sexual harassment by O'Reilly against an unnamed ex-partner of Panter's.

02:23:09.000 Huh.

02:23:10.000 Wow.

02:23:11.000 Panter's claims, based on the conversations with his ex and incidents he said he witnessed were chilling, Panter says that his then-girlfriend's, in quotes, career was largely dependent on staying on O'Reilly's good graces, and that O'Reilly repeatedly asked her out and made sexually charged late-night phone calls to her.

02:23:31.000 That's his move. 0.99

02:23:32.000 He calls you up and says fucked up shitty on the phone. 1.00

02:23:35.000 What a freak. 1.00

02:23:36.000 It's crazy, man.

02:23:37.000 He must have been doing...

02:23:38.000 This is sort of the Harvey Weinstein sort of thing.

02:23:40.000 He must have been doing that forever.

02:23:42.000 That was his thing.

02:23:43.000 He would call chicks up.

02:23:45.000 Yeah, what are you wearing?

02:23:46.000 I was about to call Reagan.

02:23:48.000 Got him on speed dial. 0.99

02:23:50.000 Come over and watch me jerk off. 0.99

02:23:52.000 It's totally bizarre. 0.99

02:23:53.000 The power, money, it gives you some sort of presumed veil against things.

02:23:58.000 It does, but it's also the Fox News thing.

02:24:00.000 It's so sexually charged.

02:24:01.000 I have a whole bit about the way the men and the women dress on Fox News.

02:24:05.000 Because those women dress like they're going out on a hot date. 1.00

02:24:09.000 And they're talking about, like, important issues.

02:24:12.000 Right, yeah, their little dresses and all.

02:24:13.000 And they always seem to be sitting at the edges of the table, you know?

02:24:16.000 So you could see their legs.

02:24:17.000 Right, yeah.

02:24:17.000 It was always very transparent to me.

02:24:19.000 My thought was always like, well, these are old conservative men that are watching this, and you grab them any way you can, I guess.

02:24:25.000 Chaka-chaka, boing-boing! 1.00

02:24:28.000 Newt Gingrich is feeling it.

02:24:29.000 Just holding on to his 70-year-old wood hood.

02:24:31.000 Oh, I wish I had enough power to stick it at any of these gals. 1.00

02:24:36.000 Do you think Newt Gingrich gets some hot tail?

02:24:39.000 He's got a young, fairly young wife.

02:24:41.000 Wasn't he a girl above in the underwear?

02:24:43.000 A known philanderer?

02:24:45.000 Yeah, a little of this, a little of that. 0.51

02:24:47.000 Sexiest ladies of Fox News, as that is.

02:24:49.000 Yeah.

02:24:50.000 It's interesting.

02:24:51.000 Well, it's interesting, too, that somebody needed to talk to Megyn Kelly. 0.99

02:24:54.000 Like, what the fuck was she thinking, jumping ship and going over to NBC? Yeah, she's, like, dying over there, apparently. 0.99

02:24:59.000 Well, of course she's dying.

02:25:00.000 You're the ice queen. 0.98

02:25:01.000 You're supposed to be shouting down the liberals, mocking everybody and telling everybody that Santa Claus is white. 0.98

02:25:07.000 That's your thing.

02:25:08.000 Yeah, she's apparently, like, I keep reading about her, about how people won't book on her show.

02:25:13.000 No.

02:25:14.000 Well, she's... 0.99

02:25:15.000 And she's bringing everyone down. 0.99

02:25:16.000 She's not stupid, but she's pressured. 0.98

02:25:19.000 And when people are under pressure, they falter. 0.98

02:25:21.000 Especially if people are not used to that kind of pressure.

02:25:24.000 She's used to people liking her.

02:25:26.000 I always thought she was brilliant on Fox.

02:25:28.000 The way she would communicate with people, she's very sharp.

02:25:31.000 But she just seems so uncomfortable and under pressure and nervous and awkward.

02:25:37.000 Did you see the thing with Will and Grace?

02:25:39.000 Oh, yeah, where they had that exchange with Laura Messinger.

02:25:42.000 She asked a guy if he became gay because he liked the character that was like, what?

02:25:47.000 Oh, that's right.

02:25:48.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:25:48.000 She had some other awkward...

02:25:50.000 There was a couple early on where there was pretty awkward exchanges between her.

02:25:55.000 I heard Jane Fonda.

02:25:57.000 Jane Fonda, that's right. 1.00

02:25:58.000 That's what it was.

02:25:58.000 She asked Jane Fonda about getting plastic surgery, and Jane Fonda just said, are we really going to go there?

02:26:04.000 And then she went and said, I like to talk about this movie.

02:26:06.000 This is what I like about this movie.

02:26:07.000 She basically just steamrolled her. 1.00

02:26:08.000 I feel, we were talking about typecasting before, right, about how people, and I feel like she's just, she can't get away from what she was. 0.97

02:26:15.000 Well, it's also like, that's a clunky, stupid thing to do, to try to talk about plastic surgery when someone's promoting a movie. 0.97

02:26:21.000 Sure. 0.99

02:26:21.000 She's just trying to get soundbites. 0.99

02:26:23.000 She's like, it's calculated effort to get soundbites of the people who put up YouTube clips.

02:26:28.000 Do you give a lot of interviews or ever give interviews like a...

02:26:31.000 Have you ever had bad experiences with that?

02:26:34.000 Like talking to people?

02:26:35.000 Yeah, I'm saying you being the...

02:26:37.000 I don't do those anymore, man.

02:26:38.000 I don't do them.

02:26:39.000 I feel like that's an incredibly ineffective way to communicate.

02:26:42.000 I feel like you're doing yourself a massive disservice to talk for five minutes to someone that you don't even know.

02:26:48.000 Right.

02:26:48.000 I mean, if I want to talk to someone, I want to talk to them for hours.

02:26:51.000 And let's do it live so that you can't edit it.

02:26:54.000 Right, right. 1.00

02:26:54.000 Fuck it! 1.00

02:26:54.000 We'll do it live! 1.00

02:26:57.000 You know, I think that if you really want to communicate ideas, that's not the way to do it.

02:27:01.000 It's the way to jump off little sound clips and sound bites and then, we'll be right back!

02:27:08.000 Then you go to commercial and it's like, what are we living in the 50s? 1.00

02:27:12.000 This is a stupid way to do it. 1.00

02:27:14.000 You guys need to read. 1.00

02:27:14.000 Revamp your whole system. 1.00

02:27:16.000 This system sucks. 1.00

02:27:17.000 This is a shitty way to communicate with people. 1.00

02:27:19.000 Why are we even talking like this? 0.93

02:27:21.000 You're sitting over there, I'm sitting over here, and we're looking at each other sideways?

02:27:25.000 How come you're at a desk and I'm on a couch?

02:27:27.000 Why do you have a desk?

02:27:28.000 What are you writing books? 1.00

02:27:29.000 What the fuck are you doing over there in that desk? 0.99

02:27:31.000 The whole thing is just, it's Jack Parr. 1.00

02:27:35.000 You know, it's Johnny Carson. 0.99

02:27:36.000 It's just like this old-school, dumb way of conducting these interviews. 0.99

02:27:41.000 You have a band here! 0.98

02:27:43.000 Well, let's let the band play us out!

02:27:47.000 Yeah, it's a capital S show. 1.00

02:27:50.000 It's fucking dumb. 1.00

02:27:51.000 I don't like it. 1.00

02:27:52.000 I think the guy who does it the best is Jimmy Kimmel.

02:27:55.000 I think Jimmy Fallon does it pretty good, too.

02:27:57.000 He makes it fun.

02:27:59.000 He's got a lot of fun things that he does on it.

02:28:02.000 Seth Meyers does a good job of making it fun, as well.

02:28:04.000 And he has some really good points on his show.

02:28:07.000 But I just think, ultimately, I can barely express myself in five minutes, seven minutes.

02:28:13.000 You know, and especially in front of a crowd.

02:28:15.000 You're sitting there in front of a crowd and you want to talk about important things or funny things.

02:28:20.000 Joey, I understand that you don't like the zoo.

02:28:22.000 Tell us why you don't like the zoo. 1.00

02:28:23.000 Well, it's a fucking animal prison and I think it's fucked up. 1.00

02:28:27.000 Beep, beep, beep, beep. 1.00

02:28:28.000 You can't even say all those words, you know?

02:28:30.000 Yeah, I feel like there's a...

02:28:32.000 I think that some people have a short attention span and they don't want long things or whatever, but I think that...

02:28:38.000 A show like yours, I think, fills a niche.

02:28:40.000 It's not even a niche, it's a huge show, but fills this need that I think is underrated, that people like long-form things, that they like depth, that they have lots of time to burn when they're driving around or at work and they're bored or they're just cooking food or whatever it is they're doing.

02:28:53.000 I used to have that argument in my old company where we...

02:28:56.000 I was like, you guys are just wrong.

02:28:58.000 Make this show three or four or five minutes long.

02:29:00.000 I'm like, no, it'll be as long as I want it to be for me to get my word out.

02:29:03.000 And I was right about that.

02:29:04.000 And I feel like, so I like the long form stuff.

02:29:07.000 I like for things to be as long as they need to be.

02:29:10.000 And to flesh things out and to not corner people, to let them express them and explain themselves and stuff like that.

02:29:14.000 I think it's good.

02:29:15.000 That's why your show is so popular.

02:29:16.000 I'm surprised that people aren't more and more aping the idea of going three, four, five hours if necessary with people.

02:29:25.000 Some people don't want to do it.

02:29:27.000 I'm a uniquely blabbermouth type person.

02:29:30.000 I can just keep talking about things forever.

02:29:36.000 We're good to go.

02:29:55.000 For people to really get a sense of who you truly are, you know, you get a sense of who someone is over three hours.

02:30:02.000 You really get a sense of who someone is over three hours, over 1,200 podcasts, whatever the fuck we've done.

02:30:08.000 What are we on?

02:30:08.000 1,020 or something like that?

02:30:10.000 1,032.

02:30:11.000 1,032.

02:30:12.000 Plus fight companions. 1.00

02:30:15.000 A lot of fucking shows. 1.00

02:30:16.000 People get a sense of who you are, you know? 1.00

02:30:19.000 It's just different.

02:30:20.000 It's a different kind of thing.

02:30:22.000 You know, a television show is a more polished, edited...

02:30:27.000 It might be better for your attention span.

02:30:29.000 I mean, if this was on TV, just regular TV, maybe it would be a bomb.

02:30:33.000 You know, maybe it, like, uniquely fits into the weirdness that is the internet.

02:30:38.000 And that's why it's been successful.

02:30:39.000 And also, I think it's probably been successful because there was never any attempt at it being successful.

02:30:45.000 It was never like something where I sat out and go, if I just do this a certain way, it will be financially viable, it will be received well, and I'll use this as a vehicle to further my other endeavors.

02:30:58.000 There's never any thought process like that.

02:31:00.000 It's like, hey, it'd be cool to just talk to people.

02:31:02.000 Hey, you think I can get Anthony Bourdain to come over my house?

02:31:04.000 Yeah, look at him.

02:31:05.000 He's sitting right there.

02:31:06.000 Let's give him some beers.

02:31:07.000 Let's have talks.

02:31:08.000 And that's where it all came from.

02:31:10.000 It just came organically.

02:31:12.000 Yeah, that's the beauty of it.

02:31:13.000 I think that shines through with your show and some other people.

02:31:16.000 You can tell when someone's putting it on.

02:31:18.000 I mean, I can.

02:31:19.000 I'm sure you can.

02:31:20.000 You like to hope you can.

02:31:22.000 Yeah.

02:31:23.000 I'm sure.

02:31:23.000 Well, Bill Cosby.

02:31:24.000 Yeah, he probably would have fooled both of us.

02:31:27.000 Maybe.

02:31:27.000 Maybe not, though.

02:31:28.000 Yeah, who knows?

02:31:28.000 Maybe not.

02:31:29.000 He never had...

02:31:30.000 That's part of the thing.

02:31:31.000 He might have fooled both of us if he was on The Tonight Show. 0.99

02:31:34.000 But if he was sitting across the room for us for three hours just talking shit, maybe not. 1.00

02:31:40.000 Right. 0.99

02:31:40.000 You know, you never really got to see that. 0.99

02:31:42.000 Right.

02:31:43.000 You must have, I mean, over doing a thousand episodes, many hundreds of guests, you must learn a lot, like you were saying, a lot about a person, but does your opinion of the person change when you have some interesting interviews with bigger people, for instance, that come on your show, better or worse,

02:31:58.000 like after kind of poking and prodding them for a little while?

02:32:01.000 Yeah, but I think you date a chunk, right, whenever you're talking to people.

02:32:05.000 And you see some sort of patterns...

02:32:08.000 And deflection and communication and openness and some people really impress you with their honesty or with their thoughtfulness or objectivity.

02:32:16.000 Objectivity is a rare one, man.

02:32:18.000 That's a particularly rare thing where so many people are so married to their ideas and I try very hard not to be.

02:32:25.000 I'm certainly not perfect at it, but I try very hard To not be married to my ideas.

02:32:30.000 And if I'm wrong, I really go out of my way to say, wow, I was definitely wrong about that.

02:32:35.000 Like, I thought that was this, but it's not.

02:32:37.000 It's that.

02:32:37.000 And this is how we know.

02:32:39.000 And here's the proof now.

02:32:40.000 And here's the studies that have come out. 0.99

02:32:42.000 Wow, fucking that threw me for a loop. 0.99

02:32:43.000 You have to do that. 1.00

02:32:46.000 Yeah, absolutely.

02:32:46.000 But there are so many people that do not want to ever admit fault.

02:32:51.000 And because of that...

02:32:53.000 Because you don't want to admit fault, because you don't want to admit that you might have communicated an error or you might have been misled by certain information that you thought was true but turned out to not be, it ruins the way people appreciate your words.

02:33:08.000 Because you could tell me that you believe, you know, something happened in the past because you read it, because you learned it in school, because it's always been taught that way, but then new information comes out that clearly refutes that.

02:33:21.000 You've got to come in here and say, well, now I know different.

02:33:24.000 Boy, I thought this.

02:33:25.000 Because I know that you really did think that.

02:33:27.000 I know you were really being honest.

02:33:29.000 And now I know you're being even more honest because you're saying now we know differently. 0.99

02:33:34.000 That now we know differently is fucking giant, man. 0.99

02:33:37.000 It's huge. 0.99

02:33:37.000 And you see it resisted. 0.99

02:33:40.000 You see it resisted in academia.

02:33:41.000 You see it because people have been teaching certain things for a certain amount of time and then new evidence comes to light and they don't want to consider it.

02:33:48.000 You see it resisted at all.

02:33:50.000 Like I had a conversation once on the radio with this lady who called up and she was telling me that she was a paleontologist.

02:33:58.000 Who studies monkeys?

02:34:02.000 The biologist?

02:34:03.000 Would it be a biologist?

02:34:04.000 Yeah, like some sort of...

02:34:05.000 Some sort of a biologist.

02:34:07.000 Yeah.

02:34:07.000 And she said, you know, I have my PhD because I was talking about the Bondo ape, which is a very particularly large species in the Congo.

02:34:18.000 And I was going over all these different things about this ape, and it was on the Opie and Anthony show, and this lady called up.

02:34:24.000 And she goes, you are just talking about pseudoscience and cryptozoology.

02:34:28.000 You don't know what you're talking about.

02:34:30.000 And I go, no, I'm reciting an article that was in National Geographic.

02:34:34.000 This is all new information.

02:34:35.000 And I go, you know, she said she was a professor.

02:34:38.000 And I go, when did you study?

02:34:41.000 When did you learn?

02:34:41.000 I go, how much time do you spend paying attention to the newest, latest information?

02:34:47.000 Because clearly you're wrong.

02:34:49.000 They have skulls.

02:34:50.000 They have videos of these animals.

02:34:52.000 They have photographs of them.

02:34:53.000 They have camera trap photos.

02:34:54.000 They have DNA on them.

02:34:55.000 They have a crest in their head like a gorilla.

02:34:59.000 When I get obsessed with things, I have an ability to rattle off information.

02:35:03.000 I start to rattle off information on this lady. 0.99

02:35:05.000 And she never says, no, you're wrong.

02:35:07.000 I mean, she never says, you know, well, I guess I was wrong.

02:35:10.000 I'm going on old information.

02:35:12.000 She starts laughing and mocking me. 1.00

02:35:14.000 I go, are you better?

02:35:16.000 Then these scientists that are in National Geographic that are putting out these photographs, that are spending years in the Congo.

02:35:24.000 Karl Amann, the Swiss wildlife photographer, that spent years in the Congo photographing these creatures.

02:35:29.000 They nest on the ground like gorillas.

02:35:31.000 They're a particularly large species of chimpanzee.

02:35:34.000 So I started rattling off information.

02:35:36.000 And the lady's like, you know, like, you don't know what you're talking about. 1.00

02:35:38.000 I go, you're not fucking saying anything! 0.95

02:35:40.000 You're not saying anything because you know you don't have the latest information. 1.00

02:35:45.000 That kind of shit drives me nuts. 0.99

02:35:47.000 When someone doesn't really know, but pretends they know, and is presented with information, and isn't willing to accept it. 1.00

02:35:56.000 You've got to be willing to accept information.

02:35:58.000 This lady called up to try to puff out her chest. 1.00

02:36:01.000 She has the information.

02:36:03.000 She's a professor.

02:36:05.000 She knows.

02:36:06.000 I'm not saying...

02:36:07.000 I'm not in the woods studying. 1.00

02:36:08.000 I'm reading all these fucking biologists who are... 1.00

02:36:11.000 This is amazing new discovery. 1.00

02:36:14.000 I mean, there's a fucking giant chimp that lives in the Congo. 0.99

02:36:17.000 There's photos of this thing walking around on two legs. 0.99

02:36:20.000 It's six feet tall.

02:36:21.000 I mean, this is a huge chimpanzee.

02:36:23.000 It's far bigger than any other chimps.

02:36:25.000 They have two different types of chimps.

02:36:27.000 They have a tree...

02:36:28.000 They call them tree beaters and...

02:36:32.000 They ground something.

02:36:33.000 I forget the term they use.

02:36:36.000 But these larger chimps literally sleep on the ground. 0.99

02:36:39.000 They don't give a fuck. 0.99

02:36:41.000 Nothing comes near them. 0.99

02:36:43.000 What do they call them?

02:36:45.000 Leopard eaters?

02:36:46.000 But they have video of them, one of them, literally eating a leopard.

02:36:51.000 And they don't know if it killed it.

02:36:53.000 They don't know if it found it dead. 1.00

02:36:55.000 But, like, these motherfuckers can kill leopards. 1.00

02:36:58.000 But if you think about how strong a regular chimpanzee is, you know, a regular 150-pound chimpanzee is supposed to be as strong as a 500-pound man. 1.00

02:37:09.000 Lion killers, that's what they call them. 1.00

02:37:12.000 These are huge chimpanzees. 1.00

02:37:14.000 See if you can pull up a photograph of some of these fuckers. 1.00

02:37:17.000 But they have these two guys shot at an airport. 1.00

02:37:21.000 At a small airport in the Congo.

02:37:23.000 And there's these two guys standing holding this carcass.

02:37:27.000 Right hand side, third down.

02:37:29.000 Far right hand side, third down.

02:37:31.000 Far right hand side, third down.

02:37:32.000 Third down.

02:37:33.000 That's it.

02:37:33.000 Bam.

02:37:34.000 That's it.

02:37:34.000 Go large on that.

02:37:35.000 Look at the size of that fucking thing. 1.00

02:37:38.000 That's a chimp. 1.00

02:37:40.000 It looks like a goddamn gorilla. 1.00

02:37:41.000 Yeah, he's a big boy. 1.00

02:37:42.000 Look at the size of his balls! 1.00

02:37:44.000 I mean, that is a fucking huge chimpanzee. 1.00

02:37:49.000 That's one that they found that they'd shot. 0.99

02:37:51.000 They took photographs of him.

02:37:53.000 But if you go above that photo, Jamie, go above that photo to the upper right-hand corner, That's one that they caught walking around on a camera chap.

02:38:02.000 They're just much, much bigger than regular chimpanzees.

02:38:05.000 That's wild.

02:38:06.000 No pun intended. 0.70

02:38:08.000 But the point was, it was an incidence of someone just deciding that they had all the information and that they wanted to Just call bullshit on something that they really weren't up to date on it yet.

02:38:21.000 Yeah, I think pride gets in the way a lot of that.

02:38:23.000 I try my hardest, and it actually kind of gets to me when my audience or people that watch my stuff say like, oh, Colin didn't admit he was wrong about this, this, or this.

02:38:31.000 I'm like, I don't know that you're paying very close attention, because I actually take a lot of pride in being wrong about things sometimes and telling you that I'm wrong so you know, so you're not going out into the world...

02:38:40.000 With misinformation, whether it was about video games back in the day, whether it's about politics or history.

02:38:44.000 When you're rattling things off, like you were saying, sometimes you get things mixed up and confused.

02:38:49.000 Oh, for sure. 0.61

02:38:49.000 I fuck things up. 0.61

02:38:50.000 I don't even realize it while I'm saying it that I'm saying the wrong word or someone's name wrong.

02:38:54.000 It happens.

02:38:55.000 And I think it's essential to do those kinds of things.

02:39:01.000 Yeah.

02:39:25.000 Then I want to see what it's all about because this is so uncomfortable.

02:39:28.000 This is so out of whack for me that I want to know how it works.

02:39:33.000 I'm with you on that one, by the way.

02:39:34.000 Yeah, that's an interesting one.

02:39:36.000 And I believe they're testing it in some place in the United States.

02:39:39.000 Are they?

02:39:40.000 Yeah.

02:39:40.000 I think somewhere in the United States is going to test universal basic income.

02:39:43.000 See if I can find that.

02:39:44.000 But this is fairly recent, like over the last few days.

02:39:48.000 It's just fascinating to kind of get out of your...

02:39:50.000 I've been dealing with this idea of rights versus privileges and how we call a lot of things rights, but they're not rights.

02:39:57.000 There's no right to medical care.

02:39:59.000 There's no right to that.

02:40:00.000 But the idea of...

02:40:01.000 I hate when people are like, it's a right to...

02:40:03.000 Basic human right.

02:40:05.000 Yeah, it's not.

02:40:06.000 You have a right to...

02:40:07.000 You're inalienable rights of life and liberty and stuff like that.

02:40:09.000 Those are rights.

02:40:10.000 You don't have a right to force someone to do something for you.

02:40:13.000 Exactly.

02:40:13.000 Which is essentially what you're forcing a doctor to work on you if you don't have the money to pay for it.

02:40:17.000 Exactly.

02:40:18.000 But I think as a culture, we should probably put that in terms of like, what are we going to do for our citizens?

02:40:23.000 Well, we're definitely going to provide fire protection.

02:40:26.000 We're definitely going to provide police.

02:40:28.000 We should definitely provide medical too.

02:40:30.000 I just think it should be, there should be a safety net to keep people healthy if they don't have money.

02:40:35.000 Sure.

02:40:36.000 I think that it's a totally valid thing to say.

02:40:39.000 Oh, what do we have here?

02:40:41.000 Where is this?

02:40:42.000 They've randomly selected 3,000 individuals across two U.S. states to participate in the study.

02:40:47.000 1,000 receive $1,000 per month for up to five years, and 2,000 will receive $50 per month.

02:40:54.000 Hmm.

02:40:55.000 What is that?

02:40:56.000 It's the control for the experiment.

02:40:58.000 To serve as a control group for comparison. 0.99

02:41:00.000 With the $50 per month, it's not going to help shit. 0.98

02:41:02.000 But the $1,000 per month, that gets interesting because then you're not giving anybody enough where they can fuck off because $250 is really not even going to pay for rent and food. 0.98

02:41:13.000 But it'll help you, give you a little bit of a boost. 0.80

02:41:16.000 Yeah, it could be good for the economy.

02:41:17.000 I think there's a lot of worry about inflation, because you're basically freeing up a ton of money that would otherwise be in banks or not circulating around the market, so it's going to make your dollar less valuable.

02:41:26.000 I think there's a lot of complicated things economically that people have to deal with with that.

02:41:30.000 But I feel like, you know, with what you were talking about with healthcare, I think it's an interesting point, because we talk too much about rights.

02:41:37.000 And we have these rights.

02:41:38.000 You have a right to not be searched without a warrant.

02:41:40.000 You have a right to due process.

02:41:42.000 Free speech.

02:41:42.000 Those are rights, right?

02:41:44.000 That are written in the Bill of Rights, in the Constitution, but...

02:41:48.000 But, privileges.

02:41:49.000 A 21st century, modern, progressive, wealthy society, what can your privileges of being part of that society be?

02:41:55.000 And I like when people talk about it in that sense and be like, medical care is the privilege of being part of a society like this.

02:42:01.000 I'm like, okay, so let's frame the arguments differently.

02:42:04.000 Because I think it's a more compelling way to say, we've achieved so much.

02:42:07.000 We're not in the dark ages anymore.

02:42:08.000 We're not even in the 18th or 19th centuries anymore.

02:42:11.000 Now we have roads, we have police and fire, we have all these things.

02:42:14.000 What's to stop us from having the privilege Of having this as well.

02:42:18.000 And I think just frame it that way and you'll have way more people on board.

02:42:21.000 And it's a very compelling argument for why we shouldn't spend $800 billion on the military.

02:42:26.000 Like maybe if you had some of that money freed up, you could take care of a lot of things at home.

02:42:30.000 You could.

02:42:31.000 Medicare for all is expensive.

02:42:33.000 It's extremely expensive.

02:42:35.000 You could actually, as far as I understand, you could...

02:42:38.000 I think tax...

02:42:40.000 I'm sorry, you could remove military spending completely and pay for only like a fourth of it.

02:42:44.000 So it's a really radically...

02:42:47.000 Really?

02:42:47.000 Yeah, I think...

02:42:48.000 So $800 billion a year would only pay for a fourth?

02:42:51.000 I think it's $600 billion a year military spending right now, but I think it's...

02:42:55.000 Jamie, do you mind...

02:42:56.000 I hate to ask you to do something, but do you mind looking to see how much the Medicare for All thing costs?

02:43:00.000 I think it's something like $1.5 trillion a year or something like that, or $2 trillion a year or something like that. 0.99

02:43:03.000 Oh, Holy shit. 0.98

02:43:05.000 And so, like, these are things... 1.00

02:43:06.000 But you have to have rational conversations.

02:43:07.000 That's why I have no respect for Bernie Sanders, because you can just throw things out there.

02:43:10.000 Bernie Sanders!

02:43:11.000 Yeah, $1.4 trillion.

02:43:13.000 Sanders' last Medicare-for-all plan cost nearly $1.4 trillion.

02:43:17.000 So I'm a little off.

02:43:18.000 So it's a little less than half.

02:43:19.000 So you could...

02:43:20.000 He's a character.

02:43:23.000 Well, it's easy to go around promising things to people.

02:43:25.000 Like, the funny thing is, like, free college, right?

02:43:28.000 Like, free...

02:43:28.000 Nothing's free.

02:43:29.000 But free college, it's like, well...

02:43:31.000 Your 401k is going to get taxed for that.

02:43:33.000 If you're a middle class family and you're making Wall Street transactions, broker transactions with your 401k, you're going to pay that tax.

02:43:40.000 It's easy to say Medicare for all by raising taxes, but everyone's taxes go up 2.2%. 0.73

02:43:45.000 I think there's also a real concern with kids fucking off with that education.

02:43:50.000 If an education costs... 0.96

02:43:52.000 What is a per year cost of a very good university today?

02:43:56.000 Not even like an Ivy League university.

02:43:58.000 Probably $20,000- $25,000 a year.

02:44:00.000 Yeah.

02:44:15.000 You know, and a real desire to achieve and to discipline themselves into following through with the courses and doing the work.

02:44:22.000 You maybe then, maybe give someone a semester for free and prove by their performance in that semester, you know, by their effort, their performance, how much work they've done, that, you know, okay, you...

02:44:36.000 It's very likely that you can get through four years of this university and get out with a bachelor's degree, maybe even move on and continue your education or become a really valuable member of our society and benefit our economy and benefit our civilization because of what you're learning here.

02:44:53.000 So making an investment in you.

02:44:55.000 I mean, I think that's a valuable thing for our country, right? 0.76

02:44:59.000 Have more educated, less ignorant people. 0.97

02:45:02.000 Have less losers, right? 0.67

02:45:04.000 Yeah, I think, to me, and I say this, I guess, from a place of some privilege, because I went to college. 0.56

02:45:10.000 I went to a great college.

02:45:12.000 And I'm proud of that.

02:45:13.000 But at the same time, I feel like it's too...

02:45:15.000 Why don't we emphasize trade schools anymore?

02:45:18.000 Why don't we emphasize that you don't have to go to college?

02:45:21.000 You can be an entrepreneur.

02:45:21.000 You can start a business.

02:45:23.000 I feel like it's often too...

02:45:25.000 It's too much focused on, like, an academic...

02:45:28.000 I'm like, that's good for some people, but I would argue that there's probably too many people going to college, especially for things that we were talking about earlier on that don't really...

02:45:36.000 Do anything for you.

02:45:37.000 If you have a chemistry degree or a physics degree or a math degree, you're going to be great.

02:45:40.000 If you have a history degree, like I did, you have to be very lucky, like I was, or you might have some hard times, you know?

02:45:45.000 Or you find something else to do.

02:45:46.000 Exactly.

02:45:47.000 You'll benefit just from the discipline that you learned while you were in school.

02:45:50.000 Right, exactly.

02:45:50.000 It's proof that you can accomplish something.

02:45:52.000 But I wish that there was more drive to say, like, we need plumbers.

02:45:56.000 We need electricians.

02:45:57.000 We need...

02:45:57.000 And you know what?

02:45:59.000 Two things. 1.00

02:45:59.000 Some of the stupidest people I've ever met I went to college. 1.00

02:46:03.000 Some of the smartest people I ever met didn't go to college. 1.00

02:46:05.000 And some of the people that I know that are doing the best economically are in trades.

02:46:09.000 And they don't have a degree.

02:46:10.000 They're electricians.

02:46:11.000 They build houses.

02:46:12.000 They do those kinds of things.

02:46:13.000 Auto repair.

02:46:13.000 Exactly.

02:46:14.000 These are essential.

02:46:15.000 And these things aren't going away, either.

02:46:17.000 Right.

02:46:19.000 I look at someone like a mechanic.

02:46:20.000 I look at a plumber or something like that.

02:46:21.000 I'm like, man, that's really impressive because I don't know what the hell you're doing.

02:46:25.000 But you know how to wire this house.

02:46:28.000 You know how to lay the plumbing.

02:46:29.000 You know how to do all these kinds of things.

02:46:30.000 That's a vital service.

02:46:32.000 Sure, carpenters.

02:46:33.000 Exactly.

02:46:34.000 So I feel like there's almost this like, got to go to college, got to go to college.

02:46:38.000 I'm like, no, you don't. 0.71

02:46:38.000 And the other thing that I think is really relevant is that I paid for my college, and I'm paying loans out the ass for my college degree still. 0.71

02:46:48.000 And I have to now pay for someone else's college?

02:46:50.000 And I did what I had to do, and I don't really feel like it's fair that I had to owe $60,000 or $70,000 in loans that I've paid back.

02:46:58.000 And then I have to pay extra taxes for someone else to go to college as well.

02:47:02.000 It kind of frustrates me, and specifically because the only reason college is so expensive is because the government is involved in the loans.

02:47:08.000 Right.

02:47:09.000 Subsidizing.

02:47:09.000 Yeah, they subsidize the loans.

02:47:10.000 Anyone can get a loan.

02:47:11.000 If you were in a college and you knew that anyone that came to you could just go get a Stafford loan, right?

02:47:16.000 You would jack prices up in two seconds.

02:47:17.000 Of course you would.

02:47:18.000 Make the loans more rare and even raise interest rates on those loans and watch what happens to the cost of college.

02:47:25.000 It will plummet because they can't justify the cost anymore.

02:47:28.000 The government made this problem.

02:47:29.000 Now the government's trying to...

02:47:30.000 And this is what I'm talking about.

02:47:31.000 The government's now trying to solve a problem.

02:47:33.000 It totally manufactured on its own.

02:47:34.000 When did that all begin?

02:47:37.000 I don't know for sure.

02:47:37.000 I think in the 70s it began, and then I think it really got out of control in the 90s.

02:47:42.000 Because I went to Northeastern, and my mom actually worked there, so I didn't even pay tuition.

02:47:47.000 I only paid room and board.

02:47:48.000 Tuition at Northeastern is like $45,000 or something a year.

02:47:51.000 Now, I know people that went to college that had to pay out, have those loans strapped to them.

02:47:55.000 You have two kids in college? 1.00

02:47:56.000 Holy shit. 1.00

02:47:57.000 It's incredible. 1.00

02:47:58.000 Holy shit. 0.99

02:47:59.000 And dude, I don't know what I was... 0.98

02:48:01.000 When you're 17 or 18 years old, I remember my dad.

02:48:04.000 My dad's a New York City firefighter, a very serious guy.

02:48:07.000 And I remember him sitting down and being like, I'm taking these loans out for you.

02:48:10.000 I'm co-signing on them.

02:48:11.000 And him kind of looking me in the eye and being like, you will not default on these loans.

02:48:17.000 He's like, I know you don't understand anything.

02:48:18.000 Ferocious. 0.99

02:48:19.000 Yeah, because you're 17 or 18 years old, being like, I don't know what the fuck is going on. 0.98

02:48:23.000 I'm going to college. 0.95

02:48:25.000 I'm going to do whatever I'm going to do.

02:48:26.000 Look at that.

02:48:28.000 Woo-wee! 1.00

02:48:29.000 Yeah, so it really got out of control.

02:48:30.000 What is that, 80s?

02:48:31.000 Yeah, so like in the mid, early to mid-80s is when it got out of control.

02:48:33.000 Yeah, mid-80s, the spike.

02:48:35.000 And then look at it now. 0.99

02:48:36.000 Well, it goes to 2009, but in 2009, it's just through the fuck. 0.97

02:48:41.000 It's just, so the government, the government did this and now they're trying to solve, now Bernie Sanders is running around trying to solve the problem. 0.98

02:48:46.000 It's like, Bernie Sanders!

02:48:48.000 And speaking of age and stuff, like the Democrats, he's absolutely going to try to run again.

02:48:52.000 Is he?

02:48:52.000 I think so.

02:48:53.000 But he's so old.

02:48:53.000 He'll be 80. His neck, his head is leaning forward like someone's got to teach him to stand up straight.

02:48:58.000 Yeah, he's just got that bookish kind of, you know...

02:49:01.000 But he's got this thing going on where his head is like slowly making its way down to his sternum.

02:49:07.000 Yeah, he's collapsing like in a coin.

02:49:09.000 Like, Bernie, this is really bad for you.

02:49:12.000 That's the thing.

02:49:13.000 That's my look.

02:49:15.000 He would have won, I think, if he went up against Trump.

02:49:19.000 I think he would have done much better than Hillary.

02:49:21.000 It's a brand of populism that would have been...

02:49:23.000 So, I think something like 10% of people that voted for him in the primary voted for Trump.

02:49:26.000 So, that's a compelling number that suggests what you say is right.

02:49:28.000 But my whole...

02:49:29.000 The X factor in this is the oppo research.

02:49:31.000 And you got a little bit of taste of...

02:49:32.000 The what research?

02:49:33.000 Oppo opposition research that they never used on Bernie Sanders because they didn't have to.

02:49:37.000 And the Republicans have all sorts of stuff on him.

02:49:39.000 And it's not even...

02:49:40.000 He went, you know, like little things that resonate with older people, right?

02:49:43.000 So, like, they went...

02:49:44.000 Him and Jane Sanders went on their honeymoon to the Soviet Union.

02:49:47.000 It's weird.

02:49:48.000 That's really weird, right? 1.00

02:49:49.000 Fucking Russians. 1.00

02:49:49.000 People that are 20 or 25 don't care about that. 1.00

02:49:51.000 People that are 40, 45, 50 care a lot about that, right? 1.00

02:49:54.000 Because he went to a communist country to explore the great benefits of the fucking red flag. 0.97

02:49:59.000 Yeah, of which there are none. 0.99

02:50:02.000 Just like Lee Harvey Oswald.

02:50:03.000 Well, they have cool domes in their building.

02:50:05.000 Very unique buildings in Moscow.

02:50:06.000 Good architecture.

02:50:07.000 I keep asking people, though, because you have these crazy people on Twitter and stuff that have the hammer and sickle and their names and stuff like that.

02:50:13.000 And I'm like, can anyone tell me one thing that the Soviet Union gave us, like gave the world? 0.77

02:50:16.000 Just one thing that anyone cares about.

02:50:20.000 That's Russian.

02:50:21.000 That's not even Soviet, right?

02:50:23.000 Tetris came from the Soviet Union.

02:50:24.000 The game?

02:50:25.000 Yeah.

02:50:25.000 That might be the most important thing.

02:50:27.000 Good goddamn game. 1.00

02:50:28.000 Communism is so morally and intellectually bankrupt. 1.00

02:50:31.000 It's incredible to me that anyone would even argue it.

02:50:34.000 It's just as morally and intellectually bankrupt as the far right.

02:50:37.000 But it seems to be the thing that people go to when they look at some sort of a viable alternative without looking into it deeply.

02:50:43.000 Marxism, you know?

02:50:44.000 And that this idea of socialism is going to be a good thing because everybody's going to contribute and capitalism is what's wrong with the world. 0.87

02:50:52.000 And whenever people, they always like to hit up this fucking thing of, you know, the economic inequality, economic inequality, inequality of income, inequality of money.

02:51:06.000 What people don't seem to get is that when you have true freedom, you're absolutely gonna have inequality. 0.92

02:51:13.000 Because if you have the true freedom to do whatever you want, some people aren't going to do much.

02:51:18.000 And some people are gonna do a lot.

02:51:20.000 There's gonna be some Jeff Bezos-type characters out there who just wanna fucking go gangbusters and own half the country.

02:51:26.000 And then there's going to be people that would really rather just work a little bit and then go play fucking disc golf and smoke pot and listen to records and hang out with their friends and they'd be very happy if they just made an income that was sustainable. 0.97

02:51:42.000 There's a fucking host of different personalities. 0.93

02:51:45.000 There's some people that really enjoy doing art. 1.00

02:51:48.000 And they like to go down to a fucking farmers market and set up shop and sell their artwork. 0.99

02:51:52.000 And that's fine for them. 0.99

02:51:54.000 That's what they want to do.

02:51:55.000 That's how they want to live their life. 1.00

02:51:57.000 And maybe their dad was a fucking doctor who died at 55 of a heart attack because he was working too hard. 0.98

02:52:01.000 Or, you know, who knows what it is that causes someone to have the ambition or the desires that they have. 0.99

02:52:07.000 But when you have true freedom to pursue whatever you want, that literally breeds inequality.

02:52:12.000 Because there are going to be people that decide to do more.

02:52:16.000 And there's going to be people, and whether it's an egalitarian version of this, whether these people are altruistic in their approach, whether they donate an incredible amount to charity, or whether or not they keep it all to themselves.

02:52:30.000 If you have real freedom, like, that doesn't say you have to donate X amount of your money to this and Y amount of your money to that, if you just give people freedom, You're gonna have inequality.

02:52:42.000 Because people are in-equal in their efforts.

02:52:45.000 They're in-equal in their desires.

02:52:46.000 They're in-equal in their focus.

02:52:48.000 They're in-equal in their discipline.

02:52:50.000 And they're in-equal in their capabilities.

02:52:52.000 Yep.

02:52:53.000 That's the major thing.

02:52:54.000 That's a big one, man.

02:52:55.000 That people don't want to talk about anymore.

02:52:56.000 Yes. 0.99

02:52:58.000 It's kind of a rough thing to say, but I've had conversations with people where I'm like, when did people stop saying like, wow, that kid's just dumb. 0.73

02:53:04.000 It's like, you know what I mean? 0.98

02:53:05.000 I remember even growing up in the 80s and early 90s where it's like, there's some dumb kid. 0.98

02:53:09.000 There's nothing wrong with them. 0.94

02:53:11.000 They don't have a disability or anything like that, but it's just like, this This kid doesn't really have the capability of going.

02:53:15.000 He's going to do something else with his life.

02:53:17.000 Now it's like everyone can do anything at any given time.

02:53:19.000 And I'm like, no, you work.

02:53:20.000 You have some innate quality to you.

02:53:22.000 But you work, you study, you toil, you do those kinds of things.

02:53:25.000 Not everything is delivered on a platter to everyone.

02:53:28.000 And I almost resent that.

02:53:30.000 You know, because some people really work very hard, and some people don't work hard at all.

02:53:34.000 And then, like you're saying, the outcome should be equal?

02:53:36.000 I don't think so. 1.00

02:53:37.000 There's some people that are tall, there's some people that are short, and there's some people that have brains that are made out of dog shit. 1.00

02:53:42.000 And there's not much you can do about that. 0.99

02:53:44.000 There is absolutely Absolutely a broad spectrum of human intelligence, of awareness.

02:53:49.000 And how much of that is the environment they grew up in?

02:53:52.000 How much of that is their education?

02:53:53.000 How much of that is their raw genetics?

02:53:55.000 Who knows? 0.68

02:53:56.000 And there's environmental factors that fuck people up, right?

02:53:59.000 There's real arguments that living around toxic waste is very damaging to your IQ. There's a lot going on with human beings.

02:54:06.000 And it's not fair. 0.88

02:54:08.000 But here, when you play cards, if you get four aces and I get one, two, and a bunch of fucking random numbers, that's not fair either.

02:54:15.000 But I have to figure out a way to win with this hand. 0.69

02:54:18.000 Or get by. 0.95

02:54:20.000 And if it truly is a competition and you've got a shitty hand...

02:54:24.000 You've got to do your best.

02:54:25.000 Do your best with the hand you've got.

02:54:27.000 If you are a dwarf and you want to be a basketball player, you're going to have to let that go. 1.00

02:54:32.000 You can't do that.

02:54:33.000 You know what else you can't do?

02:54:34.000 You can't fly.

02:54:35.000 You can't breathe underwater.

02:54:36.000 You can't see through walls.

02:54:38.000 You can't run a million miles an hour.

02:54:40.000 Those are the things you can't do.

02:54:42.000 So, let's figure out what you can do, and find something that you can be passionate about.

02:54:47.000 Right, and I think capitalism, as an economic system, is the only one that accommodates all this, right?

02:54:52.000 Exactly.

02:54:53.000 It's such a trite thing, but it's like, it's the least imperfect of all the systems, right?

02:54:58.000 Right.

02:54:58.000 There's nothing positive about something like communism to me.

02:55:02.000 Whenever I see that hammer and sickle, and I don't mean this to be me, whenever I see that hammer and sickle on this person's name, I'm like, I'm not really dealing with someone with a full deck, I don't think.

02:55:09.000 I don't know how you can possibly read Marx and do all these kinds of things, jump deep into history, look at the Soviet Union, look at North Korea, look at Cuba, look at all the failure that's happened all around you.

02:55:18.000 Then look at the fact that everyone is benefiting from capitalism in some way.

02:55:21.000 They're just doing it wrong.

02:55:22.000 Yeah, it's not real communism.

02:55:24.000 It's not real socialism.

02:55:25.000 That's always the answer.

02:55:26.000 I mean, real capitalism, the worst aspects of capitalism are the diminishing appreciation for the human being and the fact that money is a power over everything and that people just acquire material goods and all those things are true.

02:55:42.000 They're true at the farthest end of the spectrum of, you know, good to bad, right?

02:55:47.000 The furthest end of, like, what is the damage that capitalism can do?

02:55:50.000 Well, you can devalue human life to the point where money becomes more powerful than anything and people can consolidate this money and build these oligarchical family structures and, you know, there's a lot of issues that can happen, but that can happen with anything.

02:56:06.000 Where people have leverage and power over other people.

02:56:09.000 It doesn't necessarily mean they have to happen that way.

02:56:12.000 There's got to be some evidence and some instances of altruistic capitalism, like Bill Gates, for instance.

02:56:20.000 That guy does a lot of really good things. 0.95

02:56:23.000 And the Bill Gates Foundation that he has started up, I mean, goddamn, he's donated a shitload of money to schools. 0.94

02:56:30.000 Half of his money will go to charity. 0.97

02:56:32.000 I mean, that's a good example.

02:56:34.000 Another good example is Warren Buffet.

02:56:36.000 Warren Buffet is, I believe, donating almost all of his money to charities.

02:56:40.000 I mean, and these are guys that are wildly successful.

02:56:44.000 I mean, you're talking billions and billions of dollars in wealth attained entirely through capitalism.

02:56:50.000 So you have your bad examples, but you also have good examples.

02:56:54.000 I mean, what Bill Gates has done, I mean, really incredibly impressive when you stop and think about it.

02:57:00.000 Yeah, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, whatever they call it, is super influential.

02:57:04.000 I look at it in the sense of, yes, there are negatives about all of these things, like you were saying, but I also feel like, are you eating today in half the world?

02:57:13.000 Because that's because of capitalism.

02:57:16.000 Capitalism, the industrial revolution that got everything going in the last 150 years is all because of the necessity of the chase of the dollar or the pound or whatever the case might be.

02:57:26.000 The chase for money is not in itself a negative thing.

02:57:29.000 It's what you're saying, what you do with it.

02:57:31.000 And the ramifications of what we get because of money is an amazing thing.

02:57:35.000 I often talk about whether it's good or bad.

02:57:38.000 When Apple One, the Apple One computer, was being made in the mid-70s, Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs used to go to this thing called Homebrew Computer Club in Berkeley.

02:57:47.000 And people would go there.

02:57:48.000 There was this real spirit in the 70s amongst tinkerers that they would share their stuff with each other.

02:57:52.000 That they would be like, this is how I did this.

02:57:53.000 This is how I programmed this very rudimentary punch card machine.

02:57:56.000 And they were going with Apple One to this thing.

02:57:59.000 And Wozniak had really wanted to give it away.

02:58:02.000 To be like, this revolutionary computer that we are sitting on here, we're just going to give you the tools to make your own.

02:58:08.000 And Steve Jobs was the one that said like...

02:58:10.000 We have something here that can become more ubiquitous if we make it into a product that we sell, as opposed to something that stays within the confines of the Berkeley Homebrew Computer Club, where 15 people will enjoy it.

02:58:22.000 We can market this bad boy.

02:58:23.000 And so, it takes sometimes a person...

02:58:26.000 Look at the number.

02:58:28.000 It costs.

02:58:28.000 Yeah.

02:58:29.000 $666.66.

02:58:31.000 4K of RAM. Of RAM, rather.

02:58:33.000 That's amazing.

02:58:34.000 4K. That's amazing.

02:58:36.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:58:36.000 Like, it takes sometimes for things to proliferate, sometimes for things to do good.

02:58:40.000 There has to be a profit motive, and sometimes you need a Steve Jobs who didn't have the intellect that Wozniak had on a programming perspective, but saw products for what they were, went into Xerox, saw the GUI, saw the mouse, saw the Ethernet cable, knew what to do with these different things.

02:58:53.000 That's the beauty of capitalism to me, you know?

02:58:55.000 Yeah.

02:58:55.000 There's an incentive for him to pursue these goals.

02:58:58.000 Exactly, and we all benefit.

02:58:59.000 Look at our smartphones.

02:59:00.000 Ten years ago, we had no idea what these things were going to become.

02:59:03.000 And look at the economy they opened up.

02:59:05.000 Ten years ago, you were psyched if your phone flipped open.

02:59:07.000 Yeah, it was all good.

02:59:08.000 You could do that thing with the wrist where you'd open without you...

02:59:10.000 Yeah, Kirk out.

02:59:11.000 Slap it shut.

02:59:12.000 Do you remember the Matrix phone when it came out?

02:59:14.000 It shot open and no one could ever get one.

02:59:17.000 I feel like a lot of people wanted one.

02:59:19.000 Do you remember that at all?

02:59:20.000 No.

02:59:20.000 What's the Matrix phone?

02:59:21.000 When the Matrix came out, the first one, they all had a cell phone that was made by Sony.

02:59:25.000 And the bottom of it shot out instead of flipping open.

02:59:28.000 You hit a little button and you check it out.

02:59:30.000 Come on.

02:59:30.000 Really?

02:59:31.000 It never was released for consumer use.

02:59:34.000 Oh! 0.60

02:59:35.000 Why not?

02:59:36.000 Capitalism wasn't ready.

02:59:36.000 Late capitalism wasn't ready for that phone.

02:59:38.000 Bernie Sanders will have released it for free from everybody.

02:59:43.000 I think he's a unique character because he's an anti-establishment character.

02:59:47.000 He's interesting.

02:59:47.000 Well, that goes back to the point you were making.

02:59:49.000 That's why he came up is because you said he could maybe beat Trump.

02:59:51.000 I think the shared populist message could be a reason why that happened.

02:59:54.000 A version of it might have finally came out, I guess.

02:59:57.000 How does it work?

02:59:58.000 I'm confused.

03:00:00.000 This shot out and it just covered up the thing instead of flipping open.

03:00:03.000 Oh, like you press a button and it slides down?

03:00:06.000 Yeah, I mean that's when they were running and like Trinity was running.

03:00:09.000 She would just do it.

03:00:09.000 And they were like, we need an operator.

03:00:11.000 Oh, that's hilarious. 1.00

03:00:12.000 Isn't it crazy that we thought that was the shit? 0.99

03:00:15.000 It's not even that long ago. 0.99

03:00:16.000 That's what's so funny about it, you know?

03:00:17.000 Yeah.

03:00:18.000 Well, I had a black bear.

03:00:19.000 I thought it was a wizard.

03:00:22.000 Those things were super technological, too.

03:00:24.000 I had a Blackberry.

03:00:25.000 Is that it?

03:00:26.000 It slides open.

03:00:27.000 Oh, it has a screen on the bottom.

03:00:29.000 Isn't that funny?

03:00:30.000 They never thought you would ever be able to type on a screen. 0.98

03:00:32.000 Like, that's just ridiculous. 1.00

03:00:33.000 Get the fuck out of here with that. 1.00

03:00:34.000 You need buttons, man. 1.00

03:00:37.000 I had one of them bitches. 1.00

03:00:39.000 I had one of those with the keyboard. 0.99

03:00:40.000 I loved that thing.

03:00:42.000 It's great.

03:00:43.000 I didn't send emails.

03:00:44.000 I never did, but you could.

03:00:45.000 But you could.

03:00:46.000 You could if you wanted to.

03:00:47.000 I send half my emails on my phone now.

03:00:49.000 Yeah.

03:00:50.000 I love thinking about the iPhone and just the smartphone revolution, and then all of the businesses that are totally based on that thing.

03:00:58.000 Now, Uber, Lyft, all of these companies that only exist because that product existed, only because someone saw the capital investment necessary to proliferate this thing.

03:01:07.000 And I think it's amazing.

03:01:08.000 It is.

03:01:09.000 It is.

03:01:10.000 Communism doesn't give you that.

03:01:11.000 Exactly.

03:01:12.000 Communism gives you famine.

03:01:13.000 Capitalism is responsible for this intense competition in these smartphones now where there are legitimate contenders to Apple now. 0.94

03:01:23.000 Like Apple just released the iPhone X or the X, whatever the fuck they're going to call it.

03:01:27.000 But you have legitimate contenders in the Samsung Galaxy Note 8, the Galaxy S8 and the Google Pixel 2 XL. You have like these three phones that a lot of people compare favorably to the iPhone.

03:01:41.000 They're going back and forth with this and it's like it's a neck and neck race.

03:01:44.000 Now it's a matter of whether or not the integration with the operating system is important to you because a lot of people enjoy using a Mac and an Apple computer and you know they want to have the phone.

03:01:55.000 Seamlessly integrate with the computer, and then a lot of other people use Windows, and they prefer to use an Android phone because of that.

03:02:02.000 So you're dealing with massive competition now, which is fueling Apple to innovate, fueling Samsung to innovate.

03:02:09.000 I mean, right now it's just phones, and who knows whether or not it's really important to us, but that could lead to bigger and better things.

03:02:17.000 No one saw the smartphone coming, and that's really revolutionized the way we exchange information, the way we gather information.

03:02:24.000 Google's new Pixel XL. You squeeze the side and ask it a question.

03:02:28.000 Like, that's how quick the assistant comes in. 0.99

03:02:30.000 Yeah, that's wild.

03:02:31.000 So you squeeze the side and you say, tell me who Colin Moriarty is.

03:02:35.000 Bam! 0.98

03:02:36.000 It shows you instantaneously. 0.99

03:02:37.000 He's a sexist. 1.00

03:02:38.000 He's a pig. 1.00

03:02:39.000 He made a joke and he should die. 1.00

03:02:41.000 What is that, Jamie? 0.95

03:02:43.000 Foldable screens that are headed out probably in the next couple years.

03:02:46.000 That's the next thing. 0.99

03:02:47.000 What the fuck, man? 1.00

03:02:48.000 It's crazy. 1.00

03:02:49.000 This is a beautiful thing. 0.99

03:02:50.000 It's gonna be like that slap wrist thing where you're talking about with the fucking tape measures. 0.93

03:02:53.000 And as you know, Korean company LG is doing this for altruistic reasons. 0.95

03:02:56.000 They're not doing it to make any money.

03:02:58.000 They don't see any money in the foldable screen.

03:02:59.000 They're doing it to support Bernie Sanders!

03:03:04.000 Yeah, he's gonna support his neck with one of those phones.

03:03:07.000 Just shove it under and keep his head above.

03:03:10.000 When I get a phone call, I look down.

03:03:13.000 I think we're in an incredible time when it comes to this competition, though.

03:03:18.000 And you're right.

03:03:18.000 That only exists if people have profit.

03:03:20.000 Yep.

03:03:21.000 It only exists if people have some sort of...

03:03:23.000 There's competition, and there's an incentive, and there's a battle going on between these.

03:03:29.000 And I think that's the forefront of it, because with laptops, there's competition, but boy, it's kind of stagnant.

03:03:35.000 It's like, okay, well, how much processing power do you need if you're not rendering video games, if you're not making things, if you're not making movies?

03:03:42.000 If you're a person that's making CGI or filmed or something like that, then it makes sense.

03:03:46.000 You could probably use the faster processors and all the power and stuff like that, but...

03:03:52.000 Really, the competition is in video games and in video and apps and phones and the images these phones can create.

03:03:59.000 And all of them now have the ability to do portrait mode where they blur the background and bring you into the foreground.

03:04:06.000 And then the Google Pixel XL has some incredible AI for altering images and making them look cooler and really amazing stuff, man.

03:04:15.000 Yeah, it's awesome.

03:04:15.000 And I feel like a lot of the cool stuff that we even dwell on from back in the day, everything had a profit motive.

03:04:21.000 We were talking about the Age of Exploration.

03:04:23.000 They didn't want to come here.

03:04:25.000 The Europeans were just looking for a way to shorten their trade route to Asia.

03:04:28.000 They didn't care about what was in between.

03:04:29.000 It was actually super inconvenient that we were here.

03:04:32.000 There was always money at the end of the tunnel for good things.

03:04:35.000 That's why the space race is so unique, because it had no...

03:04:40.000 Everything from Mercury and Gemini through the Apollo missions had no real reason to exist other than that we wanted to best the communists. 0.90

03:04:45.000 There was no financial reason to do it, which is why it's so unique.

03:04:49.000 And I would even argue to this day, there's technology that NASA's created that we find in our everyday lives, but it's one of those unique places where that's not really true.

03:04:57.000 But there's also an argument, right, that subsistence living probably makes healthier, happier people, and that all this chasing money and chasing innovation and chasing, you know, technological superiority just leaves us with this hollow feeling, or it doesn't do you any good.

03:05:13.000 Like, you're seeing a lot of these people that...

03:05:15.000 There was this guy that we were talking about recently, the guy who, he coded Facebook likes And now your computer is trying to hijack your brain, I think is the name of the article.

03:05:26.000 Your smartphone is trying to hijack your brain.

03:05:28.000 And what he was essentially saying is that your brain is not designed to deal with the reward system that's involved in checking likes on Facebook or Instagram or stuff like that.

03:05:39.000 And that these things, this constant...

03:05:45.000 Yesterday, we were talking about this.

03:05:47.000 We were talking about...

03:05:48.000 I had Jamie Kilstein on.

03:05:50.000 He was talking about checking his phone, constantly checking Twitter on his phone, arguing back and forth with people, seeing who's supporting him and who's not, and that it becomes this massive, addictive thing, and how unhealthy that is.

03:06:02.000 There's a lot of things about this technological world that we live in that maybe aren't sustainable or aren't compatible with being a biological human being.

03:06:11.000 I agree.

03:06:12.000 I hate to mention it again, but there's an episode of Black Mirror where there's this one person in this cast where they refuse to get this augment that everyone else has.

03:06:21.000 I won't ruin it for you anymore.

03:06:22.000 And it makes them this unique thing because they refuse to partake in the new normal of interconnectivity.

03:06:27.000 And it's...

03:06:30.000 Again, it goes back to the beauty of the system that there is choice.

03:06:32.000 Like you were saying, the bohemian painter that just wants to make $15,000 a year selling some art.

03:06:36.000 That's the beauty of choice.

03:06:37.000 Yeah, exactly.

03:06:37.000 And as long as the system gives you that choice to succeed or fail and no one else is responsible for you, like in base ways, and I'm not saying we're not responsible to bring you to the hospital if you're sick.

03:06:47.000 I'm not saying any of that.

03:06:47.000 But we're not responsible to make decisions for you.

03:06:49.000 We're not responsible to line your pockets with money you did not earn.

03:06:52.000 Then that's fine with me.

03:06:54.000 That's also one of the awful things about communism that people very rarely discuss.

03:06:58.000 You're assigned a job.

03:06:59.000 You're assigned what you do if you live in Cuba.

03:07:02.000 I mean, there's very little wiggle room as to what you can and can't do if you were living in the communist Soviet Union.

03:07:08.000 There's very little, you don't have a whole lot of decision-making capabilities.

03:07:12.000 And that's just not how human beings operate at their best.

03:07:15.000 We operate at our best when we're free.

03:07:17.000 You are uniquely you.

03:07:19.000 You're not me.

03:07:19.000 I'm not you.

03:07:20.000 I don't know how your brain works.

03:07:22.000 And there's people out there like, I don't know, here's an example, Beck, that are so weird and so different from me. 0.96

03:07:29.000 But he's capable of creating weird fucking funky music because he's so different, because he's so interesting.

03:07:38.000 Right. 0.94

03:07:38.000 Like his form of, Marilyn Manson, his form of creativity just doesn't work. 0.94

03:07:44.000 My brain doesn't make that.

03:07:45.000 You know, like a tomato tree doesn't make mangoes, you know?

03:07:49.000 And the freedom to express yourself in your own unique way and the freedom to live your life with your own unique direction That's just one of the greatest things about being an American, is that we have more freedom in that regard than anyone that's ever lived.

03:08:08.000 Because we have more access to things, we have more access to information, and we have more freedom to choose, to express yourself, to speak out.

03:08:18.000 And anything that gets in the way from that, including the limiting free speech on campuses, is fucking dangerous in that regard. 0.57

03:08:26.000 Because you think you're helping. 0.89

03:08:29.000 But you're limiting freedom.

03:08:31.000 You're limiting freedom because it doesn't jive with what's going on in your head.

03:08:35.000 And that's just not the way it's supposed to work.

03:08:37.000 Yeah, absolutely.

03:08:38.000 I agree with you.

03:08:38.000 I find what's happening on college campuses, I find the stymieing of free speech, this idea, this very primitive notion of almost thought policing as being super unsavory because you have to...

03:08:51.000 A society needs to be dedicated to protecting its bad elements, as long as those elements aren't illegal. 0.92

03:08:56.000 You don't want to protect a person who is murdering someone, but you might want to protect the rights of someone who is espousing really racist shit, because that's why these protections exist, is for their freedom to express those bad ideas. 0.96

03:09:14.000 Yeah. 0.99

03:09:31.000 They're gaining more and more oxygen because you're giving it to them.

03:09:33.000 By trying to stymie them, you're bringing attention to them.

03:09:35.000 I've said over and over again with Milo Yiannopoulos, going to Berkeley earlier this year and then not being allowed to speak and everyone losing their minds, you just gained Milo Yiannopoulos a bunch of people that had no idea who he was.

03:09:44.000 The thing that would have hurt him the most is going to a room that was empty.

03:09:48.000 No one was there to speak, but he has the right to go to that room and speak nonetheless.

03:09:51.000 Well, what's interesting is what's kind of like silenced him.

03:09:55.000 Is his own words.

03:09:56.000 I mean, his own, what fucked him up is his own conversations. 0.97

03:10:02.000 His ability to freely speak about pedophilia. 0.96

03:10:05.000 Right.

03:10:06.000 It goes back to the give the person enough rope and they'll do the job for you.

03:10:09.000 You know, like you don't have to, you know, you don't have to do it.

03:10:12.000 You don't have to force a square peg into a round hole.

03:10:15.000 I think in a lot of ways, Milo is a provocateur.

03:10:17.000 And what he's trying to do is trying to push buttons and get attention and doing all those things. 1.00

03:10:22.000 But in literally doing that and just ranting and raving, he tripped over his own dick. 0.98

03:10:28.000 You know, the publishing company removes the book. 0.99

03:10:31.000 I mean, he leaves Breitbart.

03:10:33.000 I mean, this is essentially where all this came from.

03:10:36.000 I think what people kind of conflate is there's room and necessity for consequences for your actions.

03:10:43.000 No one's saying that there's no consequences for your actions.

03:10:45.000 But these consequences seem to be taking place in the marketplace of free ideas.

03:10:49.000 Right.

03:10:51.000 I feel like people have tried to force consequences on me, for instance.

03:10:54.000 They tried to force a consequence that didn't work out the way that they wanted it to, but to try to make a point, to try to illustrate a point.

03:11:01.000 But you have to let these things, like you said, the marketplace will correct For anything that is untoward, Kevin Spacey is going to be hurting for the rest of his life compared to where he was just five days ago.

03:11:10.000 Because of the consequences of his actions, right?

03:11:12.000 So I'm not saying that there shouldn't be consequences.

03:11:14.000 I don't think a lot of people are saying that at all.

03:11:15.000 But I feel like it's thought policing, like there are preemptive consequences.

03:11:19.000 But these consequences should be like, hey, we don't want to do business with you because you and your values don't align with how we look at the world.

03:11:27.000 But you're free to do your own thing.

03:11:29.000 Yeah, absolutely.

03:11:30.000 And that's why I'm saying we're giving unsavory far right and far left elements way too much oxygen and way too much power in our society.

03:11:38.000 They don't represent anyone.

03:11:40.000 When you walk through your life, how many people do you know that ascribe to Marxism?

03:11:45.000 How many people do you know that ascribe to white nationalism?

03:11:48.000 I've never met, in my own 33 years on this planet, And interacting with a ton of different people.

03:11:53.000 I'm not sure I've ever actually met a white nationalist.

03:11:55.000 So why are we acting like this is a massive component of American polity when it's not?

03:12:00.000 It's probably a few thousand people. 0.97

03:12:02.000 It's ridiculous.

03:12:03.000 350 million that live here. 0.82

03:12:05.000 Just lob off the ends of the spectrum, the far ends of the spectrum.

03:12:09.000 Just lob them off.

03:12:09.000 They're not welcome in polite society.

03:12:11.000 They can do whatever they want.

03:12:12.000 Everyone else, I bet, has 90% agreement on most issues. 0.95

03:12:14.000 And I think that this intense, heated screaming and yelling at each other that you see on Berkeley and Antifa showing up with fucking ninja masks on, throwing Molotov cocktails, this ain't helping anybody. 0.89

03:12:25.000 This just ramps up the other side. 1.00

03:12:28.000 Antifa, these guys are losers, right? 1.00

03:12:30.000 How dare you? 1.00

03:12:32.000 They're supported by the mayor of Berkeley.

03:12:34.000 Yeah.

03:12:35.000 I'm sure a lot of weird things are supported by the mayor of Berkeley.

03:12:38.000 But, yeah, it doesn't help any situations.

03:12:41.000 They look like Cobra officers from G.I. Joe running around, doing their thing, destroying private property.

03:12:47.000 It doesn't make any sense why you would do this to your own society, to your own community.

03:12:51.000 It's angst.

03:12:52.000 It is angst.

03:12:53.000 It's like, what point are you trying to prove?

03:12:55.000 And you're seeing this replicate itself a lot.

03:12:56.000 I know it's an unpopular thing to say, but you can draw a lot of this back to Ferguson, even.

03:13:03.000 Ferguson seemed...

03:13:03.000 In some ways, Ferguson is a travesty of justice, right?

03:13:06.000 But it seemed way worse than it actually was once everything came out.

03:13:09.000 Once Loretta Lynch, not a very well-known racist, refused to try the person at the federal level, local and state authorities, grand juries refused to try Darren Wilson for what he did to the gentleman there or whatever, and you get the full story, and yet you still have this society or this community in ruins based on some hands up,

03:13:26.000 don't shoot.

03:13:27.000 Never happened.

03:13:28.000 Right, it never happened.

03:13:28.000 But this is the rallying cry, this destroyed city is the rallying cry.

03:13:33.000 The problem is it sounds good to people that want to believe a certain narrative.

03:13:36.000 And so they repeat it, and then everybody's repeating it, and then you have people doing it on television, and then everybody decides that this is the thing that we're going to say over and over again, regardless of whether or not it's true.

03:13:46.000 The real travesty of that, too, is that you can literally throw a dart at a map of the United States and find a civil rights infraction that's truly deplorable, that probably deserves the oxygen and the attention, and could be a legitimate rallying cry. 0.83

03:13:59.000 But it goes back to the point you were making before, too.

03:14:01.000 People don't want to admit they're wrong.

03:14:03.000 No one wants to admit that a year out from Ferguson, we're much further than that, but even six months out from when it happened, people look back, read through the grand jury stuff, the federal government's take on it, all that kind of stuff, and realize, huh.

03:14:13.000 Maybe this wasn't the best idea to act like this when we didn't have all the information.

03:14:18.000 Don't you think that the information is flowing freer and people have more of an understanding than ever before?

03:14:23.000 I think people are really doubling down on the far right and the far left and the extremism is sort of elevated in that regard.

03:14:32.000 But I think Overall, I think, you know, people don't like the word centrist, but the people in the center, the people that are more reasonable, are more informed, and there's more communication going on than ever before.

03:14:45.000 And in that sense, I'm very hopeful.

03:14:47.000 I am hopeful, too.

03:14:48.000 I like how centrism has become this dirty, unspoken word.

03:14:52.000 But that's only, again, from the far fringes that feel like they're losing, because they are losing.

03:14:56.000 If your idea is predicated on race... 1.00

03:15:00.000 If your idea of supremacy or superiority is a predicate on that, you're a moron, right? 1.00

03:15:04.000 And no one has to talk to you about that. 1.00

03:15:07.000 You don't deserve to be part of the rational adult conversation. 1.00

03:15:10.000 It's a foolish notion. 0.54

03:15:11.000 If your idea on the left is that you have to stymie free speech, that free speech is this antiquated thing. 0.95

03:15:16.000 I tweeted out a video last week of a kid at the University of Utah saying that the— I tweeted it.

03:15:21.000 Oh, thank you.

03:15:22.000 I don't think it's a valid document. 1.00

03:15:25.000 There's nothing valid about the Bill of Rights, you moron. 1.00

03:15:28.000 If your idea is Marxism and this weird economic engineering and all this kind of stuff, you are also a moron. 1.00

03:15:35.000 And I'm not afraid to tell you that. 0.99

03:15:38.000 You have to be academically limited to look at either of those ideas on those spectrums and think that you have a good idea.

03:15:46.000 Usually, a collection of ideas, not from the fringes, but a collection of left, right, liberal, conservative, usually is probably what's right.

03:15:52.000 No one in the mainstream of American politics or mainstream of Western politics has a monopoly on right or a monopoly on good ideas.

03:16:00.000 There are great things that Republicans believe, and there are great things that Democrats believe.

03:16:04.000 There are terrible ideas on both sides.

03:16:06.000 The only thing I see on the extremes is just a complete...

03:16:09.000 Dearth of good ideas.

03:16:10.000 It's just all bad ideas.

03:16:11.000 It's just all terrible ideas.

03:16:13.000 And so why are we even paying attention to them?

03:16:15.000 They can scream and shout all they want, but we're giving them too much time on the news.

03:16:22.000 We're giving them too much time.

03:16:23.000 Even I do it.

03:16:24.000 Even I fall prey to that.

03:16:25.000 Because it's fun. 0.99

03:16:26.000 Watch that little fucker on TV saying that I don't think the Bill of Rights is a valid document. 0.99

03:16:31.000 Yeah, that's very radical, man. 0.99

03:16:33.000 The reason, by the way, you're allowed to speak at all, right?

03:16:35.000 I know he probably also thinks this is a fascist country.

03:16:38.000 I know that when the Nazis took over in early 1933, the first thing they did was let everyone say whatever they want. 0.55

03:16:43.000 So you can see the mirror images of the United States and fascist Germany. 0.62

03:16:47.000 I mean, it's everywhere if you listen to them.

03:16:49.000 He's 18. You know, he's a little kid.

03:16:51.000 Yeah, he has a lot of learning to do. 1.00

03:16:53.000 Maybe he'll look back one day at that video and go, oh my god, I was fucking stupid. 1.00

03:16:57.000 Yeah, I'm sure he does. 1.00

03:16:58.000 He looks so pompous and proud of himself. 0.99

03:17:01.000 Thank God nobody put a fucking camera on me when I was 18 and asked me how the world should work. 0.99

03:17:05.000 Absolutely. 1.00

03:17:06.000 We've all said and done stupid things. 1.00

03:17:08.000 And he's too young to maybe realize what's happening. 1.00

03:17:11.000 But colleges are breeding this sort of thing. 0.76

03:17:13.000 And I know that people say it's overdrawn and it's not as bad as it is.

03:17:17.000 And I'm like, I think it is.

03:17:18.000 Specifically because when I was in college, I only graduated 10 years ago in May.

03:17:22.000 This wasn't happening.

03:17:23.000 Yeah, what you're seeing in Evergreen State, Brett Weinstein.

03:17:27.000 I never saw anything like this in my life.

03:17:28.000 I never heard about this in other colleges in Boston.

03:17:31.000 A pretty liberal place.

03:17:32.000 So this is a newer phenomenon, and it's destructive.

03:17:36.000 It's corrosive.

03:17:38.000 And it's very damaging to people's confidence in universities.

03:17:41.000 And, you know, like, look at what's happening to Evergreen State financially.

03:17:45.000 That college is getting devastated.

03:17:47.000 People are voting to defund it, and they have real issues with enrollment now.

03:17:53.000 There was a real interesting article that I just read yesterday where the president was talking about what an impact it's taken on his health and his mental health, and he's unable to think correctly now, and he's unable to...

03:18:07.000 The guy is literally shell-shocked.

03:18:10.000 I mean, his decision-making skills are very foggy, he's saying. 0.98

03:18:15.000 This is what happens when you let petulant, ignorant children think that they run an establishment of higher learning. 0.97

03:18:23.000 When I entered college, I went under the knowledge that I didn't know anything. 0.95

03:18:27.000 How do you turn this around, though?

03:18:29.000 I don't know.

03:18:30.000 I really feel like it comes down...

03:18:32.000 In a lot of ways, it comes down to the people that pay the bills, in my opinion.

03:18:35.000 The parents need to not be happy with the product they're getting when they find that their child is now an Antifa member when he comes back for Thanksgiving or for Christmas. 0.99

03:18:44.000 You have to ask yourself, what is happening now?

03:18:46.000 You know, like, this isn't...

03:18:48.000 Because people point back to the 60s when there was a very righteous wave of anti-authoritarianism that was born in this very specific climate, you know, and...

03:19:01.000 I think it's going to take a long time to fix.

03:19:03.000 I think a lot of it is because of a...

03:19:04.000 It's a very incestuous...

03:19:05.000 Academia is very incestuous.

03:19:07.000 You hire people that agree with you.

03:19:08.000 You hire people that believe in you.

03:19:10.000 That's why you find...

03:19:11.000 What is it?

03:19:12.000 19 out of 20 people that teach at universities are liberal?

03:19:15.000 Yeah.

03:19:16.000 I'm sorry.

03:19:17.000 That's insane.

03:19:20.000 That's not right.

03:19:21.000 Even if I were a liberal or a Democrat, I'd look at that and be like, that's not...

03:19:25.000 That's like its own form of social engineering that we've co-opted.

03:19:28.000 Not only have we co-opted a lot of media, which is why the media hates YouTube and they hate all these things because they can't control that, but now we've co-opted academia.

03:19:34.000 Your ability to get a degree is going to have to go through these people that you might be diametrically opposed to or at the very least lying to you about a lot of things.

03:19:43.000 Just 10 years ago, that was certainly not my experience.

03:19:46.000 So I fear for, you know, which is another reason why I'm like, I don't know if college is the best solution for a lot of even able-minded people.

03:19:53.000 You know, like where it's like, I don't know what you get from going there now.

03:19:57.000 If you study a discipline, you probably get out okay.

03:20:00.000 Again, we were talking about chemistry, physics, math, whatever.

03:20:02.000 But if you're studying humanity, I don't know, man.

03:20:05.000 I don't know like what you're getting out of that now.

03:20:07.000 And I studied the humanity.

03:20:08.000 I had a lot of liberal professors.

03:20:09.000 I had a lot of conservative professors.

03:20:10.000 I wonder what that mix is like now.

03:20:11.000 And you get different history based on that.

03:20:13.000 Yeah, I get kids send me tweets all the time of photos of something that their professor is showing in class.

03:20:20.000 Like someone just sent me something the other day.

03:20:22.000 It was a photograph of a overhead projection and it said something about science being a social construct. 0.99

03:20:31.000 And he's like, this is the kind of shit I'm learning in school. 0.99

03:20:33.000 Oh, I think I saw that. 1.00

03:20:34.000 You retweeted that?

03:20:35.000 Yeah, I saw that pop up on my feed. 0.99

03:20:36.000 And everybody was like, what in the fuck is... 1.00

03:20:39.000 How is this guy a goddamn professor? 1.00

03:20:41.000 Well, this is the whole thing with, like, you know, even... 0.99

03:20:43.000 I mean, the way this is manifesting itself most is with transgender, you know, the transgender issue.

03:20:47.000 Yes.

03:20:47.000 Which, I made a video about this where I'm like, I don't know that the science is really even important.

03:20:51.000 If a person wants to say that they're a woman and they were born a man, I don't really care.

03:20:55.000 Who cares?

03:20:55.000 It doesn't matter.

03:20:56.000 I don't think you need to scientifically justify it, but I think the scientific justification for this whole gender... 0.98

03:21:00.000 Yeah.

03:21:21.000 The social movement of people just being accepted for who they are.

03:21:24.000 And I feel like this is where you start engineering science to fit your narrative.

03:21:29.000 And I think it's a very, very dangerous thing.

03:21:32.000 People do the same thing with global warming.

03:21:34.000 I think global warming is obviously real.

03:21:36.000 I think the science says that.

03:21:38.000 I think that it's maybe not as bad, but it's bad.

03:21:40.000 It's affecting things, making storms worse, sea levels are rising.

03:21:43.000 But people manipulate that to say, no, everything's fine.

03:21:45.000 Just hand wave it away.

03:21:46.000 But it's not true.

03:21:48.000 And I feel like So I feel like we have to predicate everything on scientific truth when we can, and then give leeway to say like...

03:21:55.000 The example I used was homosexuality, where there was a theory for a long time that homosexuality wasn't something that was born in you, that it was a choice.

03:22:01.000 Now we know that that's not true, that it's actually something that's in you.

03:22:04.000 But even if it was a choice, who cares?

03:22:07.000 Why predicate it on that if you believe in freedom?

03:22:09.000 Right.

03:22:10.000 Exactly.

03:22:11.000 Exactly.

03:22:11.000 So with the transgender thing, it's like...

03:22:13.000 I don't know that you're even attacking this from the right angle.

03:22:16.000 You should be attacking it from a social acceptance angle.

03:22:18.000 Right.

03:22:19.000 Which, again, goes back to the idea of, like, I think that's actually the conservative stance, you know?

03:22:23.000 But people would argue with me on that.

03:22:26.000 Colin, we've got to do this more often.

03:22:27.000 Yeah.

03:22:27.000 I really enjoyed this, man.

03:22:28.000 Thank you.

03:22:28.000 I did, too.

03:22:28.000 Thank you for having me back.

03:22:29.000 It's a great honor.

03:22:30.000 We said, like, two hours and 20 minutes, man.

03:22:31.000 Three hours and 20 minutes, right?

03:22:33.000 Three hours and 20 minutes.

03:22:34.000 Great.

03:22:34.000 Well, thank you so much.

03:22:35.000 It was a great honor for you to ask me back.

03:22:36.000 I appreciate it.

03:22:37.000 My pleasure, brother.

03:22:37.000 Thank you so much, man.

03:22:38.000 And congratulations on this space.

03:22:39.000 Thanks, buddy.

03:22:41.000 Tell people where they can watch your show.

03:22:42.000 Oh, youtube.com slash CollinsLastStand and I'm often on Twitter at NoTaxation.

03:22:47.000 Bam. 1.00

03:22:48.000 See you tomorrow, fuckers. 1.00

03:22:49.000 Thanks, guys. 0.99

03:22:52.000 Cool, that was fun.

03:22:54.000 Thank you.

The Joe Rogan Experience - October 31, 2017

Joe Rogan Experience #1032 - Colin Moriarty

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Transcript