The Joe Rogan Experience - January 15, 2018


Joe Rogan Experience #1064 - Eddie Huang & Jessica Rosenworcel

Topics
internet environmental policies internet openness meteor knife failure stories competition apps blockchain economics blockchain for history preservation comfort and security problems
Hosted by
Joe Rogan
Guests
Eddie Huang Jessica Rosenworcel
Mentioned
Eddie Wong Oprah Jessica Rosenworcel Eddie Joe Trump George W. Bush Lomachenko Inouye Martin Luther King Day Comedy Store Mousy Fire Arts Anthony Bourdain Modest Proposal Tim Berners-Lee Empire Szechuan Jonathan Swift Michael Baker Anthony Joshua Jeff Sessions Steve Kramer and 18 more
Joe Rogan Experience #1063 - Tom Segura Joe Rogan Experience #1065 - Danica Patrick

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 24 minutes

Words per minute

185.76

Word count

15,780

Sentence count

1,496

Harmful content

Misogyny

7

sentences flagged

Toxicity

64

sentences flagged

Hate speech

15

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Jessica Rosenworcel is a commissioner on the Federal Communications Commission, the agency that has the power to regulate the internet and the way we access it. She's also the wife of billionaire investor Eddie Wong, who has been on the pod many times. In this episode, Jessica and Eddie talk about what's at stake for the future of the internet, net neutrality, and why people are so concerned about it. They also talk about why they think Ajit Pai is a smart guy and why he should be careful about what he's trying to do with the internet. And they talk about how important it is that the internet is open and free for all of us to use it as a tool to connect to the world. You can t ask for much more. You're not going to get more information on todays episode than right here. Subscribe to JRE on Apple Podcasts and leave us a rating and review in iTunes. Thanks for listening and share the podcast with your friends! Timestamps: 5:00 - What s at stake here? 6:30 - Why people are worried about net neutrality? 7:15 - What are you worried about? 8:20 - Why do you care about the internet? 9:40 - Is the internet a free thing? 10:00 11:10 - Why is the internet important to you? 12:15 13:40 14: What s the long-term impact of the Internet? 15:30 16:00 -- Why the internet should be open? 17:30 -- What are we should be free from government control? 18:40 -- Is the Internet a free market? 19:20 -- What is the Internet good for us? 21:10 -- What does the internet really need to be free? 22:00 | What's the internet's future? 23:30 | What are the internet s role in the internet in the 21st century? 25:00 // 22:40 | What s it really mean? 26:10 27: How do we know what s the real value of the web? 29: What is it all about the Internet in the Internet ? 30:00: Is it a good thing 35:30 // Is it possible to make it better than it s a good business? 31:40 // Is there a better way to make the internet better?

Transcript

Transcripts from "The Joe Rogan Experience" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:01.000 Five, four, three, two, one.
00:00:06.000 And we're live.
00:00:07.000 Welcome aboard, Jessica Rosenworcel.
00:00:10.000 Did I do it?
00:00:11.000 You did.
00:00:12.000 I was so nervous about that.
00:00:14.000 And Eddie Wong, of course, has been on the podcast many times.
00:00:18.000 Number one podcast in the world.
00:00:19.000 Oh, thank you.
00:00:20.000 JRE. What's up, brother?
00:00:21.000 How are you?
00:00:21.000 I'm chilling, man.
00:00:22.000 I'm good.
00:00:23.000 I just, you know, I wanted to introduce you to the homie, the commissioner from the FCC. Jessica Rosenworcel? 1.00
00:00:31.000 Because things are bad for the internet right now.
00:00:34.000 Well, you are very concerned and a lot of people are about net neutrality and we all have some questions about it and we're excited to talk to you about it.
00:00:43.000 So maybe we could illuminate some of the issues and give us an understanding or try to help us understand what's at stake here and why are people so concerned?
00:00:54.000 Well, I think people are concerned, because the future of the Internet's the future of everything.
00:00:59.000 I mean, every aspect of our lives is now touched by that connectivity.
00:01:03.000 And it's a funny thing, but the agency where I work in Washington, the Federal Communications Commission, has enormous power and control over our Internet experience.
00:01:13.000 And for decades, we've had these policies that have been all about Internet openness.
00:01:18.000 And what that means is you can go where you want, Do what you want online and your broadband provider can't get in the way or prevent you from looking at some websites or looking at some videos or setting up some businesses.
00:01:32.000 But that changed last month in Washington when the FCC, over my objections, voted to end net neutrality.
00:01:42.000 And as a result, all of our broadband providers now have the legal right to block websites, to throttle content, and to set up Sweetheart paid for prioritization deals.
00:01:57.000 And over the long haul, that could really change The internet and the web as we know it.
00:02:03.000 Now, one of the arguments pro-net neutrality, one of the arguments for people that were excited about this being signed, they were saying that net neutrality was really only over the last couple of years.
00:02:16.000 And before the last couple of years, net neutrality as we know it.
00:02:19.000 The last couple years everything was fine and that it'll continue to be fine and that people are just panicked.
00:02:25.000 And there was that really bizarre video that one dude made where he was saying, these are all the things you're going to be able to do.
00:02:31.000 You work with that cat?
00:02:33.000 I do.
00:02:34.000 Ajit.
00:02:34.000 Ajit Pai.
00:02:36.000 Yeah, he seems like an odd fellow.
00:02:39.000 Yeah.
00:02:40.000 Yeah, well, he's a smart guy.
00:02:43.000 He's a seasoned lawyer.
00:02:44.000 I think it's fair to say he and I see the world a little differently.
00:02:47.000 Yeah.
00:02:47.000 So he sees this through the eyes of big business, right?
00:02:51.000 He thinks that this is the free market.
00:02:54.000 Let the market decide.
00:02:55.000 And that's what the argument...
00:02:58.000 I mean, Mark Cuban was...
00:03:00.000 Arguing against it.
00:03:01.000 So I was like, wow, this is stunning.
00:03:03.000 Yeah, you know, for me, the net neutrality thing is huge because when I was in law school, I read this one book called Fighting for Air and it documented like the Telecommunications Act of 97. It's like boring stuff, right?
00:03:16.000 Don't go read the Telecommunications Act of 97. But like radio mattered to me.
00:03:20.000 Remember like growing up with the radio, like I remember they would actually break records on the radio back in the day.
00:03:25.000 Like Funk Flex still does it on Hot 97. He'll break records.
00:03:28.000 He broke my boy Old Drew's record the other day but like recently it's like Clear Channel, iHeartRadio they own all the radio stations and it really sterilized content and they play the same songs every hour in every city almost around the world and I when I read that book and I went to law school I realized I was like yo it was because of the deregulation of radio that allowed for all these local independent Radio stations in every
00:03:58.000 city that were repping local culture and state culture that kind of eroded that means of communication.
00:04:07.000 And I was like, this happens to every single industry we have, whether it's radio, television, but now it's coming for the internet and by deregulating it, you're going to gut it again.
00:04:16.000 You know, like, when technology started popping and podcasts came around, I mean, that's what enabled JRE and that's why my first place to go was like, I'm gonna come see Joe.
00:04:26.000 Because you were one of the innovators with this new technology.
00:04:32.000 Well, thanks.
00:04:34.000 But I think what people are super concerned about is things getting blocked, right?
00:04:40.000 Right.
00:04:40.000 That's like one of the first ones.
00:04:42.000 Yes.
00:04:42.000 Is that something that we legitimately have to worry about?
00:04:45.000 This is a good question.
00:04:47.000 Here's what I know.
00:04:49.000 Right now, your broadband provider has the technical ability to block content and websites.
00:04:56.000 It's got the business incentive to block or slow access to some websites if they don't have a special commercial relationship with them.
00:05:04.000 And now the FCC just gave them the legal green right.
00:05:08.000 Just go ahead.
00:05:09.000 And so I feel over time, this is something we need to be concerned about.
00:05:14.000 And so this open platform that was full of independent voices, now you've got this new gatekeeper, your broadband provider.
00:05:22.000 They've got a lot more power than what they used to.
00:05:25.000 How close was the vote?
00:05:26.000 It was 3-2.
00:05:30.000 And what's the argument for this?
00:05:32.000 Well, that's fair.
00:05:35.000 I think there's an argument that you want government out of the way.
00:05:38.000 Deregulation is going to lead to more competition and we'll have a flourishing of new ideas and content if we just move government out of the way.
00:05:48.000 And even if you're sympathetic to that argument, here's where I think it breaks down.
00:05:53.000 According to the FCC's own data, half of the households in this country don't have a choice of broadband provider.
00:06:00.000 I'm familiar with this.
00:06:01.000 I'm one of them.
00:06:02.000 I only have one provider that serves my house.
00:06:04.000 So the thing is, if your broadband provider started blocking your content or throttling your access to some video, in a competitive market, you'd pick up, you'd take your business somewhere else.
00:06:14.000 But about half of our households don't even have that opportunity.
00:06:19.000 So, to me, the idea that the competitive market will prevent this behavior just doesn't fly.
00:06:26.000 Yeah, that doesn't seem to make sense.
00:06:27.000 And that's an issue in my neighborhood as well, and a lot of other people I know as well.
00:06:31.000 I mean, I think they make deals where only one company, whether it's Verizon or whatever, has an area.
00:06:37.000 Yeah, they monopolize the areas, they limit the opportunities and choices.
00:06:41.000 And when they say deregulation, it just, anytime they deregulate things and say, hey, we're going to leave it to the market and have competition.
00:06:49.000 I think it's impossible to have that when you have a country with such an inequality, income inequality gap.
00:06:55.000 Right?
00:06:55.000 That's the problem is that, alright, let's all go compete.
00:06:58.000 Joe, you're not going to start a Verizon.
00:06:59.000 I'm not going to start a Verizon.
00:07:00.000 You know what I mean?
00:07:01.000 Like, we can't compete with these dudes.
00:07:03.000 And even Comcast can't even compete with Verizon.
00:07:06.000 Like, you know, these dudes are all getting smashed.
00:07:08.000 So there is not actual competition.
00:07:11.000 I think deregulation works when you have multiple players and options and that the market actually can come into play.
00:07:17.000 But with the economy so top-heavy right now...
00:07:20.000 I don't think there is a possibility of competition.
00:07:23.000 Yeah, I mean, listen, competition is the best regulator we know, right?
00:07:26.000 We want there to be these markets where consumers have lots and lots of choices.
00:07:31.000 But if competition isn't existing, you need a little oversight to make sure that every consumer gets a fair shot.
00:07:37.000 Well, it seems like that's where the real argument lies, that if there are monopolies, and there seem to be in certain areas in regards to what kind of internet access you can get, that if you don't have regulation then, then what is going to protect the consumer?
00:07:51.000 What is going to protect free speech?
00:07:52.000 What's going to protect Say if you are on Verizon and your system is on Verizon, what if you decide to make a podcast that criticizes Verizon?
00:08:01.000 And everybody says, you know, hey, Eddie Wong's got a podcast criticizing us.
00:08:04.000 I want to shut that down.
00:08:06.000 And they can just...
00:08:07.000 I would have been shut down a long time ago.
00:08:09.000 Yeah.
00:08:10.000 Yeah.
00:08:11.000 We're not saying that they would do that, but they could.
00:08:13.000 Yeah.
00:08:14.000 And that's what's scary.
00:08:15.000 That's not good.
00:08:16.000 And you know, so much of our speech these days, it doesn't take place in public places.
00:08:21.000 It takes place on these private platforms.
00:08:23.000 Right.
00:08:24.000 So they have a lot of power.
00:08:25.000 And we have to think about that as a country and a democracy.
00:08:29.000 How much openness do we want?
00:08:32.000 And then how do we create a framework in Washington that supports that openness?
00:08:36.000 And that's really, to me, what net neutrality was about.
00:08:38.000 The other question I have is, right, let's say, Let's say a service provider buys Hulu, right?
00:08:48.000 Or they create their own streaming platform called like Zulu, right?
00:08:53.000 So they start Zulu.
00:08:55.000 They could start to charge Netflix more money for using their service.
00:09:01.000 They could charge Hulu more money.
00:09:03.000 They could charge Beats more money, whatever.
00:09:06.000 I think?
00:09:13.000 I think?
00:09:27.000 I think, though, the biggest harm is to entrepreneurship.
00:09:31.000 Because right now, look, you have a good idea, you got a business, a service, you can go online, and you can almost instantly have global reach.
00:09:39.000 That's amazing.
00:09:41.000 But now you're going to have to figure out, is your broadband provider instead going to shuffle off all your traffic to someone else who's paying them on the side?
00:09:50.000 Are you going to have a fair shot to show your wares and your ideas to the world?
00:09:54.000 It's harder.
00:09:55.000 Because I start thinking, like, A bad one percenter dude and I'm like alright if there's no net neutrality and I'm the only person that can service Calabasas, California, Woodland Hills, California well I'm gonna charge all the other streaming providers more money to use this and I'm gonna create a competitor in every single one of these sectors so you can have an advantage if you have your show with me and if you're on the other one I'm gonna disadvantage you I'm gonna tax you basically So,
00:10:25.000 right now, these are concerns.
00:10:27.000 And there's nothing that's actually happening yet.
00:10:31.000 This ruling was just passed.
00:10:33.000 That's right.
00:10:34.000 Are there any plans in place for things that we should be concerned with?
00:10:39.000 And is there anything that we can do about this current ruling?
00:10:44.000 Yes, there's loads because I'm not giving up in the fight for net neutrality and I don't want you to either.
00:10:50.000 We got a few different pathways ahead.
00:10:53.000 First, in Congress right now.
00:10:56.000 They are trying to get rid of what just happened at the FCC. They're trying to use this law called the Congressional Review Act that in effect just undone everything that the FCC just did.
00:11:09.000 So it's a way to wipe out what just happened.
00:11:12.000 And while the odds are long, there's more than 40 United States senators who have sponsored that law.
00:11:19.000 And in the House side, there's more than 80 members of the House of Representatives.
00:11:22.000 So there's momentum growing in Congress to take a look at this issue and maybe fix what the FCC did.
00:11:29.000 And if you're sitting out there and thinking they're not listening to you, what you should do is something totally old-fashioned.
00:11:35.000 You should pick up the phone, call your members of Congress and your representatives, and let them know you care about this issue.
00:11:41.000 Because that, still today, is one of the most powerful ways of conveying your opinion to those who represent you.
00:11:47.000 When is the vote happening on that?
00:11:49.000 It is not yet scheduled.
00:11:50.000 I think it's going to happen first in the United States Senate and later in the House.
00:11:56.000 I also think we are going to have litigation.
00:12:00.000 We've already got a few states attorneys general who want to sue to overturn this. 0.98
00:12:04.000 We've got some big companies, some public interest groups.
00:12:07.000 So I think it's fair to say we're going to court.
00:12:09.000 And then we're also seeing activity in state houses.
00:12:14.000 And that we've seen net neutrality legislation introduced in Nebraska, Nevada, Washington State, Massachusetts, California.
00:12:23.000 Lots of places.
00:12:24.000 And I'm not sure how that all comes together legally, but what you see is this momentum growing that people are not happy with what Washington just did.
00:12:32.000 The thing that I'm worried about with the state's laws, right?
00:12:35.000 So just to lay it out for the listeners, right?
00:12:38.000 The government will pass the federal law, but then states have their own rights to regulate certain things.
00:12:43.000 Let's say we use marijuana laws as an example, because recently a lot of states passed legal marijuana laws, right?
00:12:51.000 But then Trump gave people the power to enforce federal laws about marijuana more stringently, right?
00:12:58.000 He was telling the federal government, hey, enforce our federal marijuana laws.
00:13:03.000 Well, it's really Jeff Sessions, right?
00:13:05.000 Yeah, his goon. 0.91
00:13:07.000 Yeah, his goon is doing that.
00:13:09.000 So how would federalism work if states started to pass their own net neutrality laws versus the FCC commission ruling?
00:13:19.000 Yeah, those are hard questions.
00:13:20.000 I mean, they go right to the Constitution.
00:13:22.000 What's interstate?
00:13:23.000 What's within the state's authority?
00:13:25.000 But I'm just standing back and seeing really just a lot of energy on this issue.
00:13:30.000 There's nothing else that I've worked on in Washington, where this immediately state houses decided to put pen to paper and introduce legislation.
00:13:39.000 And I think that that momentum is what's really exciting here.
00:13:42.000 Well, I think everyone understands the insane power of the Internet and what a cultural shift that we've experienced over the last 20 years.
00:13:53.000 I mean, it's unprecedented in human history.
00:13:55.000 There's never been anything like it in terms of access to information, in terms of the rate of change, the way people look at things, the way the issues get discussed, the cycle of news, which is like, what, 10 hours now?
00:14:06.000 Stories come in and out.
00:14:08.000 I mean, Hawaii just had a fake missile attack and everybody already forgot.
00:14:13.000 It's already on to the next.
00:14:14.000 Like, what's the next thing?
00:14:15.000 Keep me posted.
00:14:16.000 Check my phone.
00:14:17.000 Because I think we have to fix that.
00:14:18.000 Yes, we certainly should have.
00:14:19.000 But what happened in Hawaii?
00:14:21.000 Someone went crazy.
00:14:22.000 We're still learning.
00:14:23.000 It looks like it was a state-level issue, but you can't have things like that happen.
00:14:28.000 We've got to figure out a way in this digital world that we get accurate information to people faster.
00:14:34.000 And we've got to come up with better systems than the one we just saw.
00:14:37.000 You mean somebody pressed a button and sent out a text that said that there's an incoming ballistic missile, a possibility, a threat of an incoming ballistic missile and this is not a drill?
00:14:47.000 And then I have friends in Hawaii and everyone went crazy.
00:14:50.000 People were crying in the streets.
00:14:51.000 No one knew what to do.
00:14:53.000 And of course, this is a state that was attacked, you know, less than 100 years ago during World War II. So this is, it's not an unusual thing for them.
00:15:01.000 Yeah.
00:15:01.000 I had the privilege of working for Senator Inouye from Hawaii years ago.
00:15:05.000 And I think Hawaiians are, you know, they're graceful, they're resilient, but they live with the knowledge that they are susceptible to some attack.
00:15:13.000 So this gave them 40 minutes, the worst 40 minutes of their life.
00:15:17.000 And the amazing thing to me is it took like 10 minutes or so for this to be corrected on Twitter.
00:15:23.000 It took another half hour for our official systems to update and say, in fact, this was a mistake.
00:15:30.000 We've got to figure that out.
00:15:32.000 You can't let that happen.
00:15:33.000 Yeah, but then once I figured out it was a mistake, I was like, whoa, maybe I should ask Jessica if we could send like a national message on my birthday, 12 a.m.
00:15:42.000 March 1st and be like, you up?
00:15:45.000 Just a nationwide booty call.
00:15:47.000 I'm going to officially say the FCC will not be helping in that regard.
00:15:51.000 I had to ask.
00:15:52.000 That's a big question.
00:15:54.000 But what Joe was saying about the internet and how it opened things up, like personally for me, like today's Martin Luther King Jr. Day, right?
00:16:02.000 And I remember reading a letter from Birmingham jail as a kid.
00:16:06.000 Jonathan Swift, Modest Proposal as a kid, and Tupac, Me Against the World.
00:16:11.000 Those were like the three works that made me want to write.
00:16:14.000 And I started writing since I was 15 years old, never gave up, but no one would buy my writing, right?
00:16:20.000 The only place I would buy my writing was Roto-Wire, and I would write fantasy sports updates for them.
00:16:26.000 I covered the Magic and I covered the Knicks.
00:16:28.000 But all the way until I was like 28 years old, no one wanted to buy my writing.
00:16:33.000 It was Blogspot.
00:16:34.000 That allowed me to write in my own voice and find my own audience.
00:16:39.000 And then people started to see, whoa, there are like weird children on the internet that like Eddie's writing, like he's creating a lane.
00:16:47.000 And I talked to my publisher at Random House and they're like, yeah, you created a lane selling books to people who don't buy books, non-traditional readers.
00:16:55.000 And so without the internet, without Blogspot, Without that ability to just project my voice and hope someone connects, I never would have happened.
00:17:02.000 I know.
00:17:03.000 We're living through it in real time.
00:17:04.000 But it is totally radical as a matter of human history that you can reach out, reach around the world and build community with total disregard for geography and find people who like fantasy sports or something like that and build community around it.
00:17:21.000 That's an extraordinary thing.
00:17:23.000 And it has no precedent in human culture.
00:17:27.000 And with translation software, now language is no longer even a barrier.
00:17:31.000 I mean, it's changing and shifting as we speak.
00:17:34.000 New technologies are being developed.
00:17:36.000 I mean, Samsung has a phone now, that Note 8, where you could just highlight something and it'll instantly translate it.
00:17:43.000 I mean, they have earbuds where you could put that on the pixel, where if you talk to me in Spanish, I'll hear it in English.
00:17:49.000 And this is crazy stuff.
00:17:51.000 This is all changing.
00:17:52.000 Think about what that does for commerce or diplomacy or your ability to talk to me across the table without having a translator in some clunky way try to describe what I just said.
00:18:03.000 These things are amazing.
00:18:04.000 And you want all of our collective genius to drive them and not have big gatekeepers like our broadband providers in the way.
00:18:12.000 Yeah, it seems to be a real issue, and I think that we should look at the internet as something different than almost all other services, because it directly affects our ability to evolve as a culture.
00:18:27.000 Our ability to exchange information.
00:18:30.000 It's so critical and it's so unprecedented.
00:18:34.000 And this is a very powerful thing.
00:18:37.000 And, you know, people would love to have it go back the old way and have you get your news on ABC and NBC and CBS and that's it.
00:18:44.000 People would love that.
00:18:45.000 Because they control you.
00:18:46.000 Sure.
00:18:46.000 I mean, it would be way easier to keep the world, you know, informed in the way that they would like.
00:18:52.000 It would be easier for regulators in Washington, too.
00:18:55.000 I mean, there's this disorderly chaos on the internet.
00:18:59.000 Listen, it has challenges, but it's unearthed communities and created economic possibility for people like nothing in our history.
00:19:10.000 Yeah, I think it's changing who humans are.
00:19:13.000 You know, I think there's more of an understanding of each other.
00:19:16.000 There's more compassion.
00:19:19.000 I mean, there's also a lot of hate, and there's a lot of anger, and there's a lot of...
00:19:23.000 I think with the bad, there's more good.
00:19:27.000 Yeah.
00:19:28.000 Undoubtedly, there's much more good.
00:19:30.000 And to me, it feels like a freedom of speech issue.
00:19:33.000 If this internet kind of superhighway is controlled and there's tollbooths everywhere and it gets privatized.
00:19:41.000 I lived in Florida.
00:19:42.000 We didn't have money for roads.
00:19:43.000 I saw when things got privatized.
00:19:45.000 You just pay more.
00:19:47.000 You don't have the same service.
00:19:48.000 It's one of those things like it has to be regulated.
00:19:51.000 It has to be protected and it has to be guaranteed as a thing for all human beings, not even just Americans.
00:19:57.000 Well, it's just it's stunning to me how many people are against the idea of having an open Internet.
00:20:04.000 I just...
00:20:05.000 Well, you know, most of the polling, I think polls are always you got to be careful, right?
00:20:09.000 Because they can ask a question one way and get an answer.
00:20:12.000 But the best one done was right before our vote by the University of Maryland.
00:20:16.000 83% of the public supported net neutrality, opposed what we were doing.
00:20:21.000 But who are those 17% dummies? 1.00
00:20:23.000 That's what I want to know.
00:20:24.000 I think anything you can get the American public to agree to at 83% is a pretty high margin.
00:20:29.000 I think it's wonderful, but I'm stunned the 17%. 1.00
00:20:31.000 Yeah, I want to meet the 17%. 1.00
00:20:33.000 Seriously.
00:20:34.000 But isn't there a bunch of people, I feel like there's some, and I wrote about this on Twitter recently, that without Judgment.
00:20:41.000 I said that net neutrality seems to me to be one of those ideological issues where if you're on the right, you support it.
00:20:50.000 Or if you're on the left, rather, you support it.
00:20:53.000 Where you're on the right, you would like it to go away.
00:20:56.000 So I'm going to totally disagree with that.
00:20:58.000 Okay, please do.
00:21:00.000 A Democrat or a Republican, you benefit from net neutrality and internet openness.
00:21:03.000 If you're conservative or liberal, if you're a big business or a small business, you benefit from internet openness.
00:21:09.000 And the history of net neutrality is something that doesn't get discussed enough, which is that it began the first time the FCC put net neutrality policy on paper.
00:21:21.000 It was 2005. And I'm old enough to remember that that was when President George W. Bush was in the White House.
00:21:28.000 In other words, this country's first net neutrality policies were put on paper when a Republican was running the FCC. It is only in recent days we have characterized this as a left-right issue, and I think that's fundamentally a mistake.
00:21:44.000 How did it happen?
00:21:45.000 Like, when Ajit Pai proposed this legislation and passed it, It baffled me.
00:21:53.000 I thought net neutrality was a thing we had all agreed on.
00:21:55.000 It was like, we're never touching this.
00:21:57.000 How did this happen?
00:21:59.000 Well, you know, through a whole bunch of boring Washington procedures whereby they circulate out a proposed rulemaking and tell you what data goes on.
00:22:06.000 How did he get the power and leverage to pass this?
00:22:10.000 I think that he was supported by people in Washington, including some broadband providers, and was led to believe that with deregulation, we would all be better off.
00:22:23.000 And then what I find interesting is Google, Amazon, Facebook, these big power players used to be very vocal, net neutrality, keep the internet free, things like that.
00:22:35.000 They're not as loud as they used to be.
00:22:37.000 They seem to just be quiet on it.
00:22:40.000 What do you think is going on there?
00:22:42.000 Well, first, I want to point out that those big companies through their association are going to be intervening in the lawsuits in favor of net neutrality.
00:22:49.000 So that's true.
00:22:51.000 But to me, net neutrality has never really been about big companies.
00:22:54.000 It's about who's going to be the next...
00:22:58.000 Who's going to be the next startup and the next player?
00:23:01.000 The big companies can always find ways to build relationships and manage this kind of lack of neutrality online with their leverage that come from size.
00:23:11.000 It's the question of who's going to start something up that you and I may not see because they didn't pay off their broadband provider.
00:23:18.000 It's the entrepreneurship that has me most concerned.
00:23:21.000 Like new small business.
00:23:22.000 Yeah.
00:23:23.000 So when I was saying that there seems like an ideological rift, there's certain people that are not very well versed in this issue that automatically side one way or another.
00:23:33.000 This is a thing that we do in this country culturally, a right-left thing.
00:23:36.000 You see it a lot with global warming.
00:23:38.000 When you have a conversation with people, they say that global warming is a natural process, natural cycle, the earth goes through it.
00:23:44.000 And then you actually talk to them about how much research they've really done on it.
00:23:48.000 It's almost none.
00:23:49.000 Yeah.
00:23:49.000 They fall into these ideological groups, and those pull yourself up by your bootstraps, right-wing, you know, there's this sort of conservative way of thinking that, let the market decide, and this is that conversation.
00:24:03.000 I don't think that's an honest conversation if you're dealing with monopolies in regards to Internet access, which I think a lot of, and I am, and you are, a lot of people are.
00:24:12.000 It's a giant part of living in America.
00:24:14.000 And that tribalism that you're describing right now, it's really deteriorating the quality of our dialogue in Washington.
00:24:21.000 We've got to find a way to fix it because we're not going to move ahead without actually having some back and forth on these things.
00:24:30.000 But this is like the one issue where I'm like, it actually brings people together.
00:24:33.000 83% of people support it.
00:24:35.000 83%.
00:24:35.000 Yeah, it's undeniable.
00:24:37.000 But that's what's scary about this country now is that even when so many of us agree about something, when one very powerful group, a lobby, the broadband companies, get behind somebody with some control, they can push the needle.
00:24:51.000 You know, it's funny.
00:24:52.000 My email inbox, which was an explosive thing leading up to this vote, was full of people writing and telling me their stories.
00:25:02.000 But a whole bunch of them were like...
00:25:04.000 You know, I'm a registered Republican, but I want you to know, or I supported the president, but I believe net neutrality is really important.
00:25:13.000 It was striking to me, like, once you get out of the talking head types, what you found is that there was really broad-based support for net neutrality.
00:25:24.000 Well, what's stunning about this administration is how Trump's administration is just going ham for business.
00:25:30.000 They are going ham for offshore drilling.
00:25:33.000 They're going ham for diminishing state parks and starting to tap into resources, whether it's mining or fracking.
00:25:42.000 It's like he knows the world's going to end in 25 years or something.
00:25:45.000 He's like, just go.
00:25:46.000 Just take it all.
00:25:46.000 Here's the thing.
00:25:47.000 He doesn't have 25 years.
00:25:49.000 Yeah.
00:25:49.000 And so the world is going to end in 25 years.
00:25:51.000 I mean, if you're a 72-year-old guy, how much time do you have left?
00:25:55.000 If you have 25 years, those last 25 years, you're barely there.
00:26:01.000 Yeah.
00:26:01.000 It's insane.
00:26:02.000 There's nothing going to be left after this administration.
00:26:05.000 Well, it's real weird.
00:26:06.000 Yeah.
00:26:07.000 Because it lets you know.
00:26:09.000 People used to think, well, the president doesn't have much power.
00:26:11.000 Look at what's happening.
00:26:13.000 There's a giant shift in environmental policies, environmental protection agencies been gutted.
00:26:19.000 That's the scary stuff.
00:26:21.000 The scary stuff is how much emphasis is placed on business and how little on the world in which we live.
00:26:27.000 I mean, we have to balance that out.
00:26:28.000 It's also how we've got to focus on the future right now.
00:26:31.000 Yes.
00:26:32.000 Not a given that we're going to succeed in everything if we don't start planning.
00:26:37.000 And when I think about the world my kids are going to inherit, it's going to be digital.
00:26:42.000 There are going to be environmental consequences.
00:26:44.000 Why don't we start doing something about that right now?
00:26:48.000 There's not a lot of urgency.
00:26:51.000 It's one of the weirdest parts of being a person is people look so short term and they always feel like someone's going to fix it.
00:26:58.000 Yeah.
00:26:59.000 You know?
00:26:59.000 I mean, isn't that the attitude?
00:27:01.000 Someone's going to fix it.
00:27:01.000 But look at right now.
00:27:02.000 The economy's booming.
00:27:03.000 Joblessness is at all time low.
00:27:04.000 And they'll just start throwing all the good stuff your way.
00:27:07.000 But yeah, well, when you just start raping the environment and the businesses go, hey, there's a lot of profit to be made here.
00:27:13.000 Let's get going.
00:27:15.000 Let's start hiring some people.
00:27:16.000 Yeah, it's like all the money goes to the fence and Department of Education is gutted, Department of Energy is gutted, Department of Environment, all these things are gutted.
00:27:24.000 Everything that has to do with our even present and future, it's gutted.
00:27:29.000 The only thing that's going is business and defense.
00:27:32.000 And what's the argument for that?
00:27:33.000 The argument for that is that as business booms, as the economy booms, there'll be more opportunities for businesses to clean up the environment and profit off of it.
00:27:45.000 Yeah, but it's never worked.
00:27:46.000 Commissioner, trickle-down economics has never worked in the history of the history.
00:27:52.000 I have my doubts about it.
00:27:54.000 Yeah.
00:27:55.000 Yeah, I've heard pro and con for it.
00:27:58.000 I think, at the very least, the Trump administration, and I'm trying to look at it through rose-colored glasses, is a fascinating experiment in so many different ways.
00:28:08.000 But it's also, I think, made us all more conscious of our role as citizens.
00:28:14.000 Yes.
00:28:14.000 People have to talk back to Washington.
00:28:17.000 They have to speak up.
00:28:19.000 We need our representatives to hear what people think.
00:28:23.000 And I think we got a little comfortable there.
00:28:25.000 Believing the system just runs by itself.
00:28:28.000 But it does better when people participate.
00:28:31.000 And I think that there's a lot more demanded of us now as citizens, no matter where you fall on the political spectrum.
00:28:37.000 I think it woke us all up to that fact.
00:28:40.000 Besides just calling state reps, senators, what else can people do?
00:28:47.000 Participate in letter-writing campaigns.
00:28:49.000 Get things in your editorial page, you know?
00:28:51.000 I don't mean the big papers.
00:28:54.000 I wrote something for the LA Times about this a while ago.
00:28:57.000 But I mean in your local papers.
00:29:00.000 Tell them why it's important.
00:29:01.000 Tell them how you built a business using online activities.
00:29:06.000 And how maybe going forward that's going to be a little harder.
00:29:09.000 I think making efforts to make sure that people understand this at a local level is really powerful.
00:29:17.000 Well, it's very disturbing to people that 320 million people can be affected by five people.
00:29:26.000 It's crazy, right?
00:29:27.000 It's insane.
00:29:28.000 Five unelected bureaucrats.
00:29:31.000 Because, look, that's who we are.
00:29:34.000 Have this extraordinary power over what we can watch, see, hear, and learn.
00:29:42.000 I think that there's something in that that strikes me as not right.
00:29:47.000 And the idea that in the end, just three of them voted to roll back this openness.
00:29:53.000 So three people changed it for 320 million people.
00:29:57.000 That's crazy.
00:29:58.000 That doesn't seem like...
00:30:00.000 And three people, by the way, who were not voted in.
00:30:02.000 So they're unelected.
00:30:04.000 Which, it's just bananas.
00:30:05.000 I mean, there's no question about it.
00:30:07.000 That's a terrible idea.
00:30:08.000 Like, if you gave people the option, you said, hey, do you think that five people should be able to decide whether or not 320 million plus, plus the rest of the world, really, because if your podcast gets cut off, you're not going to be able to reach Canada either.
00:30:24.000 Do you think that they should be able to stop access to information?
00:30:27.000 I mean, three people defied 83% of the American public.
00:30:32.000 It's insane. 0.99
00:30:33.000 And that's the type of shit that makes me feel trapped in this country sometimes because we didn't elect these people, you know? 0.99
00:30:40.000 Yeah, I think you've got to make a choice, which is you've got to choose to be optimistic, because it's the only force multiplier we have, which is you're going to decide that if something's not right, you're going to call, you're going to write letters, you're going to write editorials, 0.98
00:30:55.000 you're going to build campaigns around things, because in the end, that's the only way to change things.
00:31:01.000 And if all of us felt a little of that spirit, gosh, today, if not every day, I think that that would make extraordinary difference.
00:31:10.000 And we're already seeing its impact in Washington.
00:31:12.000 There are more people showing up in the capital city for votes, for marches.
00:31:18.000 There are more people reaching out to their members of Congress than ever before.
00:31:22.000 And I just think we're going to have to sustain that energy if we want to create some real change.
00:31:26.000 I think it's about more people who have an opinion, values that are trustworthy in the community running.
00:31:32.000 I think more people need to run because for a while, I've actually looked at government as something like I maybe could never be part of.
00:31:39.000 This is a totally different thing.
00:31:41.000 I research the candidates and I go vote and that's my interaction with it.
00:31:46.000 But I'm starting to realize that even if you don't want to run, Or even if you want to run, it's a possibility.
00:31:54.000 Number one, you can encourage your other friends to go run, and you can look at who is trying to start campaigns.
00:32:01.000 I'm 35 now, and there are friends from law school that they're like, hey, I'm thinking about running.
00:32:06.000 I want to throw a fundraiser.
00:32:08.000 Who should I speak to?
00:32:10.000 There's a guy that I played basketball with in a basketball league.
00:32:13.000 He's like, I'm going to try to run for governor of California.
00:32:15.000 I'm like, good luck, but I'm going to follow what you're doing.
00:32:19.000 And I think more people need to run, but if you're not running, hold the people that are running responsible.
00:32:24.000 Ask the difficult questions.
00:32:26.000 Be a part of the kind of vetting of that candidate and be hands-on in the process of that person's candidacy.
00:32:33.000 Are you running for president with Oprah?
00:32:35.000 That's what I'm hearing here.
00:32:37.000 I'm not running, but my thing is that I think we all need to have a stake in the cats that are running and ask the questions that need to be asked because I've been one of the people that just shows up maybe two weeks before the election Two weeks before the deadline of the absentee ballot,
00:32:54.000 and I go research for two weeks, and I go check out all the pros and cons of each candidate, and after two weeks, I decide.
00:33:01.000 But, you know, I should be involved more than that as citizens.
00:33:05.000 Well, you can announce your congressional run right here, right now.
00:33:08.000 I'm too busy.
00:33:10.000 I'm too busy.
00:33:11.000 Isn't that the problem, though?
00:33:12.000 The people that would want to run for president or whatever, elected official, oftentimes are too busy.
00:33:17.000 I mean, I think if you ran, I mean, you could really clean up.
00:33:21.000 You could really do it.
00:33:22.000 I'm not running.
00:33:22.000 You've got a bigger platform than I do.
00:33:23.000 I'm not interested.
00:33:25.000 It's important, though.
00:33:27.000 Find a way to participate in public life and give back.
00:33:31.000 And whether you run or support someone or encourage your friends, and they don't have to be the person who was the student council president in high school.
00:33:39.000 Just get some people out there.
00:33:41.000 My thing with candidates, Joe, we've had disagreements on the show.
00:33:44.000 We disagree about certain things.
00:33:46.000 What do we disagree about?
00:33:46.000 Well, it was the minimum universal...
00:33:49.000 Oh, you changed my mind.
00:33:50.000 Yeah.
00:33:51.000 By the way, I changed...
00:33:52.000 There was a knee-jerk reaction to you.
00:33:54.000 Yeah.
00:33:55.000 We've talked about this.
00:33:56.000 I was talking about universal basic income.
00:33:58.000 Okay, and you told me net neutrality was sort of nerdy.
00:34:01.000 Yeah, that's pretty nerdy.
00:34:02.000 If you were talking about UBI, I think you...
00:34:04.000 I nerd out on this show.
00:34:05.000 I automatically knee-jerk goes, ah, don't do that.
00:34:09.000 It's bad for human nature.
00:34:11.000 You give people money, they get lazy.
00:34:12.000 But then I thought about it.
00:34:13.000 I said, no, you're just giving them food and shelter.
00:34:16.000 You give people food and shelter, you're still leaving open ambition.
00:34:19.000 And you're also freeing them up for the possibility of perhaps exploring things that they would really, truly love to do.
00:34:27.000 And I think...
00:34:28.000 When we start dealing with automated vehicles, automated trucks, and trucking and shipping and driving is a giant business.
00:34:36.000 It's a huge part of what people have.
00:34:38.000 There's some extraordinary percentage of men who drive for a living.
00:34:44.000 And if you eliminate that, you're going to have a lot of people out of work.
00:34:47.000 We have automation that's coming to factories and all these different places.
00:34:51.000 It's going to eliminate the need for humans, cut out all the human error.
00:34:54.000 What are we going to do with all those people?
00:34:56.000 And what are we going to do with all those jobs?
00:34:57.000 And how do you give these people this This newfound possibility, this avenue for exploring new potential career paths.
00:35:07.000 Well, the best way is to have their money taken care of in terms of food and shelter.
00:35:12.000 Give them the freedom to explore ideas.
00:35:15.000 Yeah, because it's a benefit a lot of people have and then they do great work and you take that stress off their plate.
00:35:21.000 But I talked about the conversation because we had a good discussion about it and then it went on for weeks on Twitter.
00:35:27.000 We kept talking and then we both kind of came around on things and I was like, yo, this is great.
00:35:32.000 And when I think about candidates, I think about I would vote for somebody who...
00:35:37.000 They're going to stick to their guns and they're going to do what they said they would and their values aren't going to change once they go to D.C. That's all you can ask for from a person.
00:35:47.000 Be honest about who you are and be who you are when you go to D.C. Well, I'm looking at the future of civilization, right?
00:35:53.000 Like, where are we now and this insane change we've experienced over the last 20 years because of the internet, what is it going to be like in 20 years from now?
00:36:02.000 And what happens to the average person, the average human being?
00:36:06.000 We have this idea that you're supposed to show up 9 to 5 for a job, and that's what you do, and then you work until you're retired.
00:36:13.000 But that's all something that people invented.
00:36:17.000 I mean, all of this is a new thing in terms of human history.
00:36:20.000 This is not the only way human beings can live.
00:36:23.000 And The idea that this is the only way to use our tax money or our resources is the way we're doing it currently, that doesn't seem to be that logical.
00:36:33.000 And I would like people to have more opportunity to innovate and create and more freedom where they don't feel shackled down.
00:36:41.000 There's a lot of people out there that just feel shackled down by just the need to feed themselves and survive.
00:36:48.000 Yeah, and also just even school, like I started reading and listening to these podcasts about sleep, right?
00:36:53.000 And it's a scientific thing.
00:36:55.000 Some people are not morning people.
00:36:57.000 She's laughing at you. 0.98
00:36:58.000 It's like reading or listening to podcasts about sleep.
00:37:03.000 Yeah, well you could get information any way now.
00:37:04.000 I have this image of you with insomnia listening to podcasts about sleep.
00:37:08.000 No, but I listened to this dude and he was talking about like, it's a scientific thing.
00:37:13.000 Some people are on a different body rhythm.
00:37:15.000 They just don't do well in the morning.
00:37:17.000 And he looked at schools and the school schedule.
00:37:19.000 And the school schedule is based on mom and dads.
00:37:21.000 They have a nine to five based on traffic.
00:37:23.000 Let's try to get these kids into school for high school the earliest, then middle school later, then elementary school after that.
00:37:29.000 And some people, because they're morning people, they're just at such a disadvantage.
00:37:34.000 And high school, college, this is like kind of an educational industrial complex.
00:37:39.000 If you don't fit in, if you're not cookie cutter in the way your body and your mind works, you're not going to be successful.
00:37:45.000 And speaking to what Joe's talking about is...
00:37:48.000 I genuinely believe, even with some of the silliest people I've met, everybody has some sort of genius.
00:37:55.000 We're just not fostering the unearthing of that.
00:37:59.000 Look, there's some hilarious stuff that happens at Bauhaus at the restaurant, but I tell myself every time, alright, this guy totally messed up making this Bau, this guy totally messed up butchering this chicken, but find a place where he can succeed.
00:38:14.000 Put him in a position to win.
00:38:16.000 That's a lot of responsibility.
00:38:17.000 It's a lot of responsibility.
00:38:18.000 It doesn't always work out, but usually it does.
00:38:22.000 Usually you find out, like, you know what?
00:38:23.000 That guy's really good at making the sauce.
00:38:25.000 You know, like, put him on the sauce.
00:38:26.000 Like, you have to find a place for people to be successful, but our society doesn't do that.
00:38:31.000 Or they have to find their own.
00:38:32.000 Find their own.
00:38:33.000 Yeah, the problem is if you do have a nine-to-five job and you're trying to feed yourself and get along, you're going to have less chances to innovate.
00:38:41.000 You're going to have less chances to take risky decisions and just try things out.
00:38:47.000 That is why internet openness is so important, though.
00:38:50.000 Yes.
00:38:50.000 Because this was a platform and a space for you to go experiment, build community, find communities, figure out what your genius might involve, which may not be what you're doing at work every day.
00:39:03.000 And I think the idea that Washington is mucking around with that is just crazy.
00:39:10.000 Well, I definitely don't think they like the fact that people have this ability.
00:39:13.000 I definitely think if the people who created the Internet knew what they were doing when they released this on the general public, they probably wouldn't have.
00:39:22.000 To give people the kind of access to information and the ability to change things, what we've seen through Arab Spring, we've seen through so many different...
00:39:31.000 Cultures that are using this to change the way they interact with each other.
00:39:35.000 You know, it was interesting during our net neutrality proceeding, Tim Berners-Lee, who invented the web, and Vint Cerf, who invented the internet, along with some real icons from early days, like Mitchell Baker from Mozilla,
00:39:50.000 all wrote us and said, do not change these rules.
00:39:55.000 And it seems like when you've got that incredible genius of these people who created this connected world for you and told you that this agency in Washington is going to really mess around with it, it strikes me that we should have listened.
00:40:08.000 Well, we definitely should have listened.
00:40:09.000 But we also shouldn't have this place where five people get to make this decision.
00:40:13.000 It's insane.
00:40:14.000 Yeah, going to what you just said, Joe, it's like even like let's say my role – just to explain for you, my role as the owner or manager at the restaurant, it's not necessarily – Always my job to create a role for somebody and find a way for them to be successful in my restaurant.
00:40:29.000 I'm hiring a cook. 0.99
00:40:30.000 I'm hiring a manager.
00:40:31.000 Like, this is the job description.
00:40:32.000 Hopefully, if you're coming for this job, you can do this, right?
00:40:35.000 And I think what you said really opened something in my mind, which is the government should not be...
00:40:43.000 Always prescriptive about like, alright, we're all going to go to school at 7 o'clock.
00:40:46.000 You're going to study hard and you're going to get these grades and you're going to go to college.
00:40:49.000 That's not a path to success for everybody.
00:40:51.000 But what it should do is enable people to be creative and find out what works for them.
00:40:57.000 We need to give people the freedom to contribute to society.
00:41:01.000 Well, I think we're trying to manage the masses without looking at the needs and the ideas of the individual.
00:41:07.000 And everybody has their own likes and dislikes and creative kinks and things that...
00:41:14.000 I mean, how many people...
00:41:17.000 Could have lived a life of misery, but got lucky somewhere along the line and found something that they love and pursued that.
00:41:25.000 And I think that there's not a whole lot of guidance in that regard.
00:41:31.000 But what there is on the internet is examples of other people who've done this.
00:41:37.000 And you can connect with those people.
00:41:39.000 There's so many communities when it comes to I'm weird about stuff.
00:41:46.000 I like knife making.
00:41:48.000 I don't make knives.
00:41:50.000 That feels kind of ominous.
00:41:51.000 No, no, no, no.
00:41:53.000 The craft of it.
00:41:54.000 I love the idea of forging things.
00:41:58.000 I just think, I find that fascinating. 0.94
00:42:01.000 And I follow like dozens of these guys on Instagram that make knives and hatchets and metal work and tools and furniture and shit. 0.89
00:42:11.000 I'm not making furniture. 0.92
00:42:12.000 I have no desire to make furniture.
00:42:14.000 I'm not even thinking about it.
00:42:15.000 But I like watching this.
00:42:17.000 And I like watching these people communicate with each other and explain the methods and the techniques they use.
00:42:23.000 This is an avenue where a young kid could see something like that and go, I want to make furniture.
00:42:30.000 That seems like a cool thing.
00:42:31.000 Look at this amazing desk.
00:42:33.000 How accessible that is to you now.
00:42:34.000 When you were growing up, you wanted to do that?
00:42:36.000 You were going to go to some library and go to that card catalog.
00:42:40.000 You probably wouldn't be exposed to it.
00:42:41.000 And look things up.
00:42:42.000 You would never see the video content, the number of people doing that at all.
00:42:48.000 It's so casually and quickly legitimizes it for you as something to think about, do, or pursue.
00:42:54.000 That's amazing.
00:42:56.000 Yeah, I had a knife made out of meteor.
00:43:00.000 It's made out of meteor.
00:43:02.000 How hard is meteor?
00:43:04.000 It's steel.
00:43:04.000 It's metal.
00:43:05.000 It's iron.
00:43:05.000 Oh, wow.
00:43:06.000 So they make it with the iron that came out of a meteor.
00:43:09.000 Mousy Fire Arts made it for me. 0.82
00:43:11.000 How did you cop meteor?
00:43:13.000 I contacted him.
00:43:14.000 I contacted him.
00:43:16.000 Well, I knew there's a guy named Steve Kramer that makes them, and he made one for Anthony Bourdain.
00:43:21.000 Yeah.
00:43:21.000 And I went, what?
00:43:23.000 I want one of those.
00:43:23.000 I'm like, I want one of those.
00:43:25.000 He's got a fucking meteor knife? 1.00
00:43:26.000 How do I get a meteor knife? 1.00
00:43:27.000 So my kitchen knife is made from a meteor. 1.00
00:43:30.000 Damn. 0.99
00:43:30.000 Yeah, that's Cleopatra's knife. 0.99
00:43:32.000 That's really one-upping the rest of us.
00:43:34.000 I really got to step my knife game up, because I still just use the cleaver, man.
00:43:40.000 I'm so ancient Chinese with my chopping. 0.97
00:43:43.000 It's just a cleaver.
00:43:44.000 Well, there's nothing wrong with a cleaver.
00:43:45.000 It just looks cool, because I know it came from a meteor.
00:43:49.000 Yeah, no, I could expand the arsenal, add a meteor chef's knife to it.
00:43:52.000 Do you tell everyone it came from a meteor when they come into your kitchen?
00:43:55.000 No.
00:43:55.000 So you just sort of impress them a little?
00:43:56.000 No, I've only showed it to a couple people.
00:43:57.000 I just got it recently.
00:43:59.000 But it's...
00:44:00.000 I just...
00:44:01.000 I think that this new world of the internet in terms of like the ability to explore these communities and like you said video like see the video of someone like this clock this Russell built made this clock for us that that grandfather clock I mean that dude made that all the metal he welded it all put it all together I mean this this kind of stuff to me is so fascinating and I don't just like it because I'm interested in the craft of it all I
00:44:31.000 like it because I see it as an opportunity for people to get out of the grind.
00:44:35.000 You can make things.
00:44:37.000 If you can make things and sell things, if you have an internet connection and you have an Instagram account which is free and you have an iPhone, you take your phone, you film something, next thing you know you're selling things.
00:44:50.000 It's an incredible time for opportunity to escape.
00:44:54.000 Yeah.
00:44:55.000 The biggest lie people fall for is that they're bad at something or they're not valuable.
00:45:00.000 It's like you may be bad in this structural definition of a human being that goes to school and gets a nine-to-five job.
00:45:06.000 Maybe.
00:45:07.000 I was terrible at that.
00:45:08.000 I was terrible at it.
00:45:08.000 Yeah.
00:45:09.000 I got fired from a Boston market.
00:45:10.000 I got fired from a waterworks.
00:45:12.000 Like, I couldn't work anywhere.
00:45:14.000 I got fired as a landscaper.
00:45:15.000 Yeah. 0.76
00:45:16.000 Fucked up people's lawns.
00:45:17.000 I couldn't do anything. 1.00
00:45:18.000 But then it's like when you become in control of your own shit and you go do what you're passionate about, it's like, well, then I became successful. 0.97
00:45:26.000 And I try to tell people all the time, like, if this doesn't work for you, the straight and narrow doesn't work for you, like, think of a way, think about what you think your strengths are and play to that. 0.97
00:45:36.000 Don't let anyone tell you you're a failure, you're unsuccessful, because you don't fit the stereotype.
00:45:40.000 You know, I think it's really important, though, for successful people like yourself to tell their failure stories.
00:45:46.000 We don't do that enough.
00:45:47.000 Well, I mean, I lost the restaurant because I sold All You Can Drink Four Loko.
00:45:50.000 I went out in flames.
00:45:53.000 All You Can Drink Four Loko sounds like a liability.
00:45:56.000 You're good at telling your stories, but I think that that's true generally.
00:46:00.000 I feel like I wish I could ask every member of Congress to tell a failure story.
00:46:05.000 They would never do that.
00:46:06.000 Those people are trying to pretend there's something different.
00:46:08.000 What's your failure story?
00:46:10.000 Well, I was a terrible law student.
00:46:12.000 Okay.
00:46:13.000 Anything more explosive?
00:46:15.000 Did you ever sell Four Loko at a lemonade stand?
00:46:18.000 I can tell you I absolutely never did that and probably never will.
00:46:23.000 Any other failures?
00:46:26.000 I got some parenting failures that I'm going to save my children from announcing in public.
00:46:30.000 How about that?
00:46:30.000 Good call.
00:46:31.000 Good call.
00:46:32.000 Yeah, I feel like it's important for people to relate, right?
00:46:37.000 They have to be able to say, oh, Eddie wasn't always a successful guy.
00:46:41.000 Like, he was a 19-year-old kid once, too, that was also struggling.
00:46:45.000 That's very important.
00:46:47.000 I think it's one of the most important things that people can understand that failure is an opportunity to learn.
00:46:55.000 And that horrible feeling of failure is really your friend.
00:46:59.000 Because that horrible feeling motivates you to change.
00:47:02.000 I mean, I fail all the time.
00:47:03.000 I played basketball yesterday.
00:47:04.000 We had a doubleheader.
00:47:05.000 I was cooking on a grill.
00:47:06.000 I was making lamb skewers for four hours in the morning.
00:47:10.000 Went straight from the kitchen to this basketball game in San Gabriel Valley.
00:47:14.000 It's like an Asian basketball league, so I'm actually kind of tall.
00:47:17.000 I'm like a small forward.
00:47:19.000 And there's little younger dudes at 25 running around me.
00:47:23.000 I played well the first game.
00:47:25.000 I was washed the second game.
00:47:26.000 And these kids, probably like 23, 24...
00:47:29.000 Years old, running past me, elbowing me, and I got so mad and I acted out.
00:47:34.000 I started like yelling at them.
00:47:36.000 I started like beefing.
00:47:37.000 And I got home and I told my fiance about it.
00:47:40.000 And she's like, yo, why are you beefing with these kids?
00:47:43.000 They're 25. Like, you're old. 0.64
00:47:46.000 Of course they're going to run by you.
00:47:47.000 You're playing a doubleheader and you came out of the kitchen.
00:47:49.000 And it was funny because I was like not willing to let it go.
00:47:54.000 But then I was like, I got to work on myself.
00:47:56.000 Every single day, I fail at something.
00:47:58.000 And I failed at being the elder statesman in the basketball league.
00:48:01.000 Being composed.
00:48:02.000 Being composed.
00:48:03.000 I lost my composure and started making fun of these kids for no reason.
00:48:06.000 And I was like, that's not me.
00:48:08.000 Basketball sometimes brings out the worst in me.
00:48:10.000 But I was like, alright, today I'm going to be a better person.
00:48:13.000 I'm going to go back to that league next week.
00:48:15.000 I'm going to be a nice dude.
00:48:16.000 And if some kid washes me and wets me in the face, it's fine. 0.99
00:48:19.000 Well, sometimes you just need to experience it so that you know, okay, I just have to be more composed when that comes up.
00:48:25.000 And when you didn't expect to experience it and then someone hits you with that elbow, you're like, what? 1.00
00:48:29.000 Fuck you, man. 1.00
00:48:30.000 And the next thing you know, it's intense. 1.00
00:48:33.000 Boxing, basketball, it's the most, like, sports is the most humbling thing for me.
00:48:36.000 Of course.
00:48:36.000 I'm not built for it.
00:48:37.000 Like, I'm built to fail at sports.
00:48:41.000 But you try anyway.
00:48:42.000 I try because it's the thing I'm the worst at.
00:48:46.000 So I always wanted to go to sports.
00:48:47.000 Well, it's great for the mind.
00:48:48.000 The thing about sports is you're forcing your body to do things that are uncomfortable.
00:48:53.000 And in doing that, you're not just exercising your body.
00:48:56.000 You're also exercising your mind.
00:48:57.000 And that's one of the things that I always try to relay to people that are negative about physical exercise and exertion because they think that it's some sort of a frivolous venture that's just...
00:49:08.000 Vanity, you just want to look good or use your body.
00:49:11.000 There's a mental aspect to having the ability to push through discomfort that is extremely valuable.
00:49:19.000 And if you don't have that switch where you can be comfortable being uncomfortable because you've done it a million times, if you don't...
00:49:25.000 You're going to be panicky.
00:49:27.000 You're going to be weirded out by it.
00:49:29.000 And that is a mental weakness.
00:49:31.000 And that ability to push through discomfort helps you not just in physical exercise and exertion, but it also helps you in work. 0.99
00:49:39.000 If you have to push through certain work things, instead of getting up and getting another cup of coffee, figure out what the fuck you're doing. 0.94
00:49:46.000 Figure out what's this problem you're working on. 0.99
00:49:48.000 Concentrate.
00:49:49.000 Focus.
00:49:50.000 Get after it.
00:49:51.000 Be comfortable being uncomfortable.
00:49:53.000 I don't believe in trickle-down economics, but I believe in trickle-down mental strength.
00:49:57.000 Do you know what I mean?
00:49:58.000 I start in the gym every morning, and whatever happens in the gym, it humbles me, it gives me some kind of energy, and I bring that throughout the day.
00:50:08.000 What got you hooked in jiu-jitsu?
00:50:11.000 Well, I've done martial arts since I was a little kid, but I think there's something that is inescapable, in my life at least, and that is that there is no disconnect between the mind and the body.
00:50:20.000 That they're all one thing, and that you can work them individually, but not really.
00:50:26.000 Because when you are working your body, you need the mind to do that.
00:50:29.000 The intensity of my workouts is one of the most important aspects of it, and that's fueled 100% by my mind.
00:50:35.000 It's not by my body.
00:50:36.000 And Plato said that since 5th century, he always wrote about how training the body is just as important as training the rest of your life.
00:50:43.000 Especially martial arts.
00:50:45.000 It's everything.
00:50:46.000 You're high-level problem-solving with bad physical consequences.
00:50:51.000 You're trying to avoid injury and humiliation and all these various things that are a part of martial arts.
00:50:59.000 And in the meantime, you're trying to maintain composure under pressure.
00:51:04.000 You're tired and you have to understand the ability to push and push through discomfort and push through exhaustion.
00:51:11.000 But it also fuels the mind.
00:51:13.000 It's very important.
00:51:14.000 Yeah.
00:51:15.000 Fighting that three-round fight, I was, like, my first three-round fight, I got so scared.
00:51:19.000 I was shaking the whole time, but I just told myself, dude, there's no backing out.
00:51:23.000 You're in the ring.
00:51:24.000 You have to go forward.
00:51:26.000 Keep going forward.
00:51:26.000 And just out of fear, I'm a pressure fighter.
00:51:29.000 Do you know what I mean?
00:51:30.000 Just out of fear, I have to be a pressure fighter.
00:51:33.000 In my first fight, I did not have the calm in me to counter or do what the game plan was.
00:51:40.000 I was like, I just have to pressure.
00:51:41.000 I have to move these hands and move these feet.
00:51:44.000 But then I got through it.
00:51:45.000 I got lumped up a few times.
00:51:46.000 I won the fight, but I was like, whoa.
00:51:48.000 I feel like I can do anything now and so now I keep sparring and I keep fighting because if I can be composed in the ring with someone trying to kill me then I can be composed on a podcast or in a meeting or in some negotiation.
00:52:02.000 It's the best.
00:52:03.000 Martial arts is a vehicle for developing your human potential.
00:52:06.000 And that those things are all connected.
00:52:09.000 And it's a critical lesson for young people.
00:52:13.000 And if you can push through hard workouts, you can push through whatever career path you're trying to break into.
00:52:19.000 It teaches me respect, too, because it's like you can get bodied anytime.
00:52:23.000 You can get dropped at any time.
00:52:25.000 Like, be grateful for when you have both arms and legs and you're standing on your two feet because you could be dropped at any second.
00:52:33.000 Do you do physical activity sports?
00:52:36.000 I know she's been waiting to jump in this conversation.
00:52:39.000 I grew up in New England in cold country.
00:52:43.000 Where?
00:52:43.000 In Connecticut.
00:52:45.000 Where in Connecticut?
00:52:46.000 Outside of Hartford.
00:52:47.000 Okay.
00:52:48.000 You're one of those people.
00:52:49.000 Is there like a Westport?
00:52:50.000 I think my girl is from Westport.
00:52:52.000 Yeah, that's closer to New York City.
00:52:54.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:52:54.000 She's from Westport.
00:52:55.000 So I grew up skiing all the time.
00:53:00.000 And I still love skiing.
00:53:02.000 I still...
00:53:03.000 I need the thrill of flying off of something that makes me uncomfortable in order to relax in a perverse way.
00:53:10.000 So when I have vacations, that's what I do.
00:53:12.000 I take my kids who right now live in D.C. with me, and it's pretty flat there.
00:53:16.000 So...
00:53:17.000 You got to go take them to see some mountains and you got to go make sure that they go down something that's a little bit too steep every single time.
00:53:24.000 Because I think you build some resilience when you get down something like that and you turn around and say, well, I did that.
00:53:30.000 I can do some other things.
00:53:32.000 Yeah, I think there's some resilience in living in Connecticut, too.
00:53:38.000 The cold.
00:53:39.000 It's weird.
00:53:40.000 And plus, it's not really a state.
00:53:42.000 Connecticut's like a highway between New York and Boston.
00:53:45.000 No, I would disagree.
00:53:48.000 Connecticut, Rhode Island, the bridge states.
00:53:52.000 You know, you California people, if you're not- I grew up in Boston.
00:53:54.000 Oh, I married someone who grew up in Boston.
00:53:57.000 Sorry.
00:53:57.000 You Boston people.
00:53:59.000 Talk about Boston, the hub, the app.
00:54:03.000 I never would have thought you were from Boston.
00:54:05.000 Well, I was born in New Jersey, but I grew up in Boston.
00:54:07.000 You don't have a New England accent.
00:54:08.000 Got rid of it.
00:54:09.000 Hurt myself on TV when I was 19. I was like, fuck that accent. 1.00
00:54:14.000 You worked on it. 1.00
00:54:15.000 Yeah, I was embarrassed.
00:54:17.000 I was embarrassed listening to my own accent.
00:54:19.000 I now go home and I hear people with a New England accent and it feels like sweet and comforting.
00:54:24.000 It's great when people are drunk.
00:54:26.000 When everybody's drunk, it seems like it's normal.
00:54:28.000 Come on, can you do a little bit of one right now?
00:54:30.000 Yeah, pakika. 0.97
00:54:31.000 I can do it.
00:54:32.000 See, I thought you, like listening to you talk, I thought you were from the South for a second.
00:54:37.000 No.
00:54:38.000 No?
00:54:38.000 Yeah, because you don't have a New England accent.
00:54:41.000 No.
00:54:41.000 No.
00:54:41.000 No, but I've been living in Washington for a little while.
00:54:44.000 Plus, she's a politician. 1.00
00:54:45.000 You've got to get rid of that.
00:54:47.000 You have the ill politician, like the metered talking.
00:54:52.000 Metered talking?
00:54:53.000 Yes.
00:54:54.000 It's on like a metronome.
00:54:55.000 No.
00:54:56.000 She's smooth.
00:54:57.000 You Americans.
00:54:57.000 Yeah, it's good.
00:54:58.000 It's not bad.
00:54:59.000 It's good.
00:54:59.000 It's a good thing.
00:55:00.000 Do you ever do this?
00:55:01.000 Do you ever do this thing with your hands like Clinton used to do?
00:55:03.000 No, I don't think that.
00:55:05.000 Do this thing?
00:55:06.000 What we need to do in this country...
00:55:08.000 I never understood the thumb thing.
00:55:10.000 Because people would always tell me when I do voiceover, like, slow down, slow down.
00:55:14.000 And, like, I can't slow down.
00:55:15.000 Like, my voice totally changes if I slow down.
00:55:17.000 I just got to come, like, shot out of a cannon.
00:55:19.000 That is true.
00:55:19.000 If you go back to Washington, you decide with your congressional campaign it's all going to happen, you are going to slow down when you speak.
00:55:28.000 Yeah, like you can hear your periods and commas.
00:55:30.000 I just like run through sentences.
00:55:32.000 You know what?
00:55:32.000 With Trump as president, I think all bets are off.
00:55:35.000 I think you can do whatever you want now.
00:55:37.000 I don't think there's any rules.
00:55:39.000 I don't think you can call other countries shitholes. 0.81
00:55:42.000 You can get crazy. 0.73
00:55:43.000 Joe, I'm telling you, I really think you should run. 0.60
00:55:45.000 I'm not running. 0.92
00:55:45.000 You can bring mad people together. 0.92
00:55:47.000 What does that mean?
00:55:48.000 You bring mad people together and also like... 0.98
00:55:53.000 Number one, I think you're one of the few dudes who can get the really wild white people to think about things. 0.98
00:56:00.000 Consider them.
00:56:01.000 Have some perspective and empathy. 0.85
00:56:03.000 Wild white people. 0.98
00:56:04.000 Yeah, like the wildlings. 0.97
00:56:06.000 Beyond the internet wall.
00:56:08.000 I really believe in Joe as the guy that's like, alright, the crazies trust him and then he can get them to think about things from a different perspective.
00:56:18.000 I don't know if that's good.
00:56:19.000 No, it's a good thing, dude.
00:56:20.000 You appeal to all people.
00:56:24.000 I meet a lot of people that run up on me.
00:56:26.000 Like, yo, you're on JRE. You're pretty left.
00:56:28.000 You're a little crazy, but I enjoy talking to you. 0.98
00:56:31.000 I'm like, yo, thank you, man. 0.99
00:56:32.000 I come on the show so I can speak to a different audience than just hip-hop Asian dudes in my DMs.
00:56:41.000 Dudes that like Migos and Soy Sauce. 0.99
00:56:44.000 How big is that community?
00:56:46.000 It's not that big.
00:56:48.000 We're very niche.
00:56:49.000 There's a weird thing about the listeners of this podcast is they're not left or right.
00:56:53.000 There's like a weird mixture of people.
00:56:56.000 But that's good.
00:56:57.000 We need so much more of that in this country right now.
00:57:01.000 I mean, we're not going to do things if we don't start listening to each other.
00:57:05.000 I don't usually identify as left as people call me that, but it's like your content on the show galvanizes cats from all around the world.
00:57:13.000 Well, I don't identify as left either, but I do when it comes to so many issues.
00:57:19.000 When it comes to gay rights, when it comes to civil rights, when it comes to, just across the board, things that you would automatically consider liberal.
00:57:27.000 But also...
00:57:30.000 The freedom to express yourself.
00:57:32.000 That, to me, is the marketplace of free ideas is one of the most important aspects of developing a civilization.
00:57:40.000 It's one of the most important ways that we understand about each other.
00:57:43.000 And you've got to have an open mind.
00:57:45.000 It's like I was saying, you bringing up that universal basic income. 0.99
00:57:49.000 And I was like, get the fuck out of here with that. 0.98
00:57:51.000 And then I thought about it afterwards. 0.97
00:57:53.000 And I was like, maybe there's something...
00:57:54.000 I always like to explore my reactions to things.
00:57:59.000 And if I have a reaction to something and I automatically dismiss it, I go, okay, was that valid?
00:58:04.000 Or did I just dismiss it because it's easier than to have a nuanced perspective that's formed over time and a lot of critical thinking?
00:58:14.000 And so I stopped and thought about it all.
00:58:16.000 And I think at the very least, it's something that merits consideration and maybe could be a...
00:58:21.000 Some sort of a project.
00:58:23.000 Let's see.
00:58:23.000 Let's see if that works.
00:58:25.000 Yeah.
00:58:26.000 We have some countries doing experiments with that right now, though they're different than us culturally, and I think culturally is part of it.
00:58:32.000 That is a problem.
00:58:33.000 Well, America is just so based on competition.
00:58:36.000 Competition is so powerful over here, and I think that's good, and I also think that's bad, because ultimately it's like...
00:58:44.000 If you could grab Trump and get him on mushrooms and let it explain, just somehow or another let the universe explain to him, this is a temporary experience.
00:58:55.000 You're trying to gather up all this money and gather up all these resources and gather up all this influence when this is all fleeting.
00:59:04.000 It's sand that slips between your fingers.
00:59:06.000 There's no way you can grasp it for real.
00:59:08.000 The real experience is the shared moments that we have with each other.
00:59:13.000 And the more we can enhance that for the people around us, the more you can use your power to enhance people's perspective, change people's way of interfacing with this world that we live in, and I recognize that we're all just living together.
00:59:34.000 We're all just a part of this community.
00:59:36.000 This competition thing, most of the competition is with yourself.
00:59:40.000 Most of it.
00:59:41.000 The vast majority of it.
00:59:42.000 And those other people that you're competing with?
00:59:45.000 You should cherish them because they're fuel.
00:59:48.000 All those people, instead of looking at them as the enemy, those people are your friends.
00:59:52.000 All your most bitter rivals are the greatest motivators you're ever going to experience.
00:59:57.000 Those are the people that are going to push you.
00:59:59.000 But don't be toxic about it.
01:00:01.000 You could be...
01:00:03.000 You can be peaceful about it.
01:00:05.000 Yeah, Joe, I love competition because, number one, it's amazing to watch.
01:00:09.000 Like, you know, Klitschko, Anthony Joshua, I think greatest fighter in the last 20 years.
01:00:16.000 Amazing boxing match.
01:00:17.000 Live for that boxing match.
01:00:19.000 Lomachenko, Rigondeaux, that's not competition.
01:00:23.000 Well, that's an experience, though.
01:00:25.000 That's an experience.
01:00:27.000 Just total snatching of a soul.
01:00:28.000 Well, he's a different animal.
01:00:30.000 Lomachenko's a different thing.
01:00:31.000 Yeah, the Matrix is crazy.
01:00:31.000 Do you know the story about his dad?
01:00:33.000 What his dad made him do?
01:00:34.000 No.
01:00:35.000 Made him stop boxing and do Ukrainian dance for four years. 0.97
01:00:40.000 That's why he's got that ridiculous footwork. 0.96
01:00:42.000 Footwork? 0.99
01:00:42.000 Wow. 0.99
01:00:42.000 Yeah, because his footwork is everything. 0.99
01:00:44.000 And I know he does a number association, too, which is crazy.
01:00:47.000 But what I was saying about competition is, like, you know...
01:00:51.000 Politicians know us, we need competition, we need competition.
01:00:54.000 But who is competing with service providers?
01:00:56.000 There is no competition.
01:00:57.000 It's just beating up on a bum.
01:01:00.000 We all live to watch great competition, but you have to foster competitors.
01:01:06.000 You need actual competitors for there to be competition.
01:01:08.000 Imagine if what we're experiencing with internet was also with food.
01:01:12.000 Imagine if only a certain people could bring you your food.
01:01:16.000 Like, oh, you live in Charleston?
01:01:19.000 Yeah, you gotta get your food from Mike.
01:01:21.000 Yeah, it's basically like growing up eating food in Orlando.
01:01:23.000 There's like one in a category.
01:01:25.000 Right.
01:01:25.000 Well, food for your mind is real.
01:01:29.000 I mean, the fuel that you get, the information that you get from the internet, that is fuel for your mind.
01:01:34.000 And whether you get it in the form of actual food or whether you get it in the form of information, these are both very critical things that you need a wide variety of different sources for.
01:01:46.000 But you're bringing up a good point, even just let's say food delivery, right?
01:01:50.000 It started off, you would call the restaurants and it was difficult.
01:01:53.000 You had to save the menu from every restaurant.
01:01:55.000 Then Seamless comes around and they're like, all right, we're putting all the menus on here and we're just helping facilitate you get things from the restaurant.
01:02:02.000 But it wasn't like for restaurants, we didn't necessarily like Seamless because then you had to have your own delivery workforce.
01:02:08.000 They took a big cut of what you were making and a lot of restaurants, they didn't even break even using Seamless.
01:02:15.000 So then like places like Caviar came around and Postmates came around and they supply the service, the delivery people, the consumer pays more for the delivery and the restaurant makes their money.
01:02:25.000 And it's like, whoa, now that actually created competition between delivery services.
01:02:30.000 Now you have an evolution.
01:02:32.000 And now, you know, everybody gets what they want.
01:02:35.000 You get better service.
01:02:36.000 So much of that all happened over the internet.
01:02:38.000 It wasn't because we had those little folded menus stuck in the kitchen drawer, right?
01:02:43.000 Right, right, yeah.
01:02:45.000 That's how we used to do it.
01:02:46.000 Yeah.
01:02:47.000 And if you lived in New York, you get home and there's like 20 sushi menus under your door.
01:02:52.000 No.
01:02:53.000 There's like Empire Szechuan. 0.75
01:02:55.000 Every three days, putting something under my door.
01:02:58.000 Yeah. 1.00
01:02:58.000 A lot of slip and fall in your own apartment cases from those fucking menus, man. 1.00
01:03:02.000 Look at what's happened through the internet in terms of people not drinking and driving because of Uber. 0.98
01:03:08.000 That's changed the way people get around.
01:03:10.000 If I went to high school with Uber, bro, I would have been good. 0.91
01:03:13.000 When we're in front of the Comedy Store, Lyft is blocking the goddamn driveway to the Comedy Store nine out of ten times when you're allowed to leave. 0.94
01:03:21.000 There's a car pulled up there. 0.96
01:03:22.000 Which is, look, it's an inconvenience, but man, it's so nice to see drunk people just getting driven around.
01:03:29.000 Yeah, they need to be.
01:03:30.000 They need to be driven around.
01:03:31.000 It's interesting.
01:03:32.000 We don't talk a lot about the safety element of that, but it's huge.
01:03:36.000 It's amazing.
01:03:37.000 It's also young people are not buying cars like they used to.
01:03:40.000 It used to be that getting a car entailed your freedom.
01:03:44.000 Right.
01:03:45.000 Not anymore.
01:03:45.000 And now it's all device-centric.
01:03:47.000 Yeah.
01:03:47.000 And where you go and what you do is virtual.
01:03:50.000 Especially as a kid.
01:03:51.000 It's not the physical car anymore.
01:03:52.000 You were segregated because I went to a school where people were bused in from different parts.
01:03:56.000 You could be friends with someone at school, but if they don't have a car or they live 45 minutes, you can't be friends.
01:04:01.000 But now, you can all meet each other up.
01:04:03.000 They may not be able to rent a car or have a car, but they can take an Uber and meet you up.
01:04:09.000 Yeah, and that really is another aspect of the internet that a lot of times we don't take into consideration is cellular, mobile, apps.
01:04:16.000 Apps are the internet.
01:04:17.000 I mean, it is everything through the internet, but it's in this little device that you keep in your pocket.
01:04:21.000 And Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, and all these different...
01:04:25.000 We live in a mobile first world.
01:04:27.000 Yes.
01:04:27.000 Like anyone who's building a website now, it should be built for that device.
01:04:31.000 Yeah.
01:04:31.000 Because that's the first place most people experience mobile.
01:04:36.000 That online activity.
01:04:38.000 And the only concern that I have about that, though, is that, you know, ultimately we want people to not just be digital consumers, but to be digital creators.
01:04:47.000 Some people.
01:04:48.000 Some people stay offline.
01:04:51.000 No, I think more of us should be.
01:04:52.000 I don't think the only people building things should be, you know, a bunch of guys in hoodies in their 20s, I think.
01:04:58.000 Oh, you mean that?
01:05:00.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:05:00.000 No, I agree with that.
01:05:01.000 Like, the digital world should look as diverse as all of us.
01:05:04.000 Yeah, sure.
01:05:05.000 And I hope on a going-forward basis, we're going to fix this internet situation with net neutrality, and we are also going to diversify the universe of people who build things for our online world.
01:05:14.000 Well, we really see that in the podcast world.
01:05:17.000 The podcast world is extremely diverse.
01:05:19.000 There's so many different...
01:05:20.000 I mean, whatever you're into, you can find a category and a whole shitload of people that are making podcasts about it.
01:05:27.000 I mean, it's really fascinating.
01:05:29.000 You can listen to five podcasts on sleeping.
01:05:30.000 You probably can, right?
01:05:32.000 When you have insomnia.
01:05:34.000 I mean, there's a ton on food, right?
01:05:35.000 Yeah.
01:05:36.000 Food is actually, you know, when I was working on this net neutrality issue, I worked with the Today Show, and they wanted to find someone who built a business online.
01:05:45.000 And they spent time with this woman, I think it was Laura's Kitchen, you know, and she had basically started just putting videos on YouTube, showing herself and how she was cooking.
01:05:54.000 And then, you know, that morphed over time into a book and a big empire, and she built something from it. 0.99
01:06:00.000 And it's amazing if you look at how much cooking has evolved from just hobby online to actual business.
01:06:08.000 It's extraordinary.
01:06:09.000 Yeah, it's undeniable.
01:06:10.000 Like, I mean, for younger people listening, they're probably just like, guys, we know, like the internet, like everything, it's undoubted everything happens on the internet.
01:06:18.000 And so for it to become...
01:06:21.000 This thing that's not regulated is insane.
01:06:24.000 It's like getting our roads taken away.
01:06:26.000 You don't want regulation.
01:06:27.000 What you want is just a little bit of oversight to make sure that it's fair.
01:06:31.000 Yes, I think that's a good way to put it.
01:06:32.000 That's the way to put it.
01:06:33.000 I think when we break into regulation or deregulation, we lose the point.
01:06:37.000 The point is you just want a little oversight to make sure it's fair and open to all.
01:06:41.000 Yeah, an equal playing ground in that everybody's allowed to come to this thing.
01:06:44.000 And recognize it as the important resource that it is.
01:06:47.000 The ability to distribute information is critical to changing the culture.
01:06:51.000 The way we interface with each other, the way we talk, the experiences that we share, the way we have access to all these new ideas and information, it's just shifting things at this radical rate.
01:07:04.000 At warp speed.
01:07:05.000 Warp speed.
01:07:06.000 Warp speed.
01:07:06.000 It's the weirdest time ever.
01:07:08.000 And so for this to be a monkey wrench thrown into the gears of this by five people and three of them choose...
01:07:15.000 Three.
01:07:16.000 Let's say three.
01:07:16.000 Three, sorry.
01:07:17.000 Present company accepted.
01:07:19.000 Present company excluded.
01:07:19.000 Yes.
01:07:20.000 It's hard to imagine that that's going to stick.
01:07:24.000 But with this administration, it's not stunning because it seems like net neutrality being dissolved favors these big businesses that would like to maximize their profits.
01:07:34.000 In many ways, net neutrality is the ultimate populist issue, right?
01:07:37.000 Yes.
01:07:38.000 Because it empowers all of us online.
01:07:42.000 Yeah.
01:07:43.000 So write letters, make calls, be annoying.
01:07:48.000 You have to be annoying. 0.56
01:07:49.000 Run.
01:07:49.000 Run.
01:07:50.000 Run for president.
01:07:51.000 Make a ruckus.
01:07:52.000 That's how I always put it.
01:07:53.000 Eddie and Oprah.
01:07:54.000 2020, Eddie and Oprah.
01:07:55.000 Eddie Joe.
01:07:55.000 I'm telling you, Eddie Joe.
01:07:57.000 Eddie Joe's a good ticket, bro.
01:07:58.000 I'm not doing it.
01:07:59.000 But good luck.
01:08:00.000 Good luck, you and Oprah.
01:08:02.000 Yeah.
01:08:03.000 I think you're going to be living your best life.
01:08:07.000 What's that mean?
01:08:08.000 Oh, that's Oprahism.
01:08:09.000 Oh, my bad.
01:08:11.000 Oh, boy, Oprah.
01:08:12.000 Is that part of the secret?
01:08:13.000 You're going to have to work with your running mate on that. 0.98
01:08:17.000 So this situation that we're in right now, are you confident that there's real potential for it to be reversed?
01:08:28.000 I am optimistic that the American public are awoke.
01:08:33.000 And they're paying attention now, and they're making a ruckus.
01:08:36.000 I mean, we had millions of people write us at the FCC. When I got appointed to the FCC, I didn't think millions of people knew what the FCC was.
01:08:44.000 I think that's extraordinary, and I'm not ready to give up.
01:08:48.000 Well, the last time the FCC was in the mainstream news is when you guys were fining Howard Stern.
01:08:54.000 That predates my time there.
01:08:56.000 Of course, it does.
01:08:56.000 That was also during the George Bush administration.
01:08:59.000 How'd you get to the FCC? So before I was appointed, I served as counsel to the Senate Commerce Committee.
01:09:09.000 And I worked there for Senator Rockefeller for a long time and for Senator Inouye before that.
01:09:16.000 And so I got like a front row seat at a whole bunch of digital issues with how we deal with our wireless spectrum, how we change our television technology.
01:09:27.000 So, you know, a real kind of nerdy Washington thing, but also a new way to see how everything is changing in our economy because of digitization.
01:09:37.000 What's your thoughts on cryptocurrencies?
01:09:39.000 You know, so I have no special authority on this, except that a microphone's in front of me.
01:09:46.000 That being said...
01:09:48.000 That's my whole life.
01:09:48.000 Yeah, right.
01:09:51.000 I'm less interested in cryptocurrencies than I am in blockchain, which is the ledger that they use to record exchanges in cryptocurrency.
01:10:02.000 It's anonymous, and it can be used by anyone.
01:10:07.000 It's extremely low cost, and I think there are open questions about how you can make government and a lot of business services more efficient using blockchain that I think are really interesting and have yet to be explored.
01:10:21.000 That's what I'm excited about.
01:10:22.000 Like, what's one way a business could use blockchain?
01:10:27.000 I'll just make this up.
01:10:28.000 Say there's some kind of, you export fruit.
01:10:32.000 Someone puts a bag of that fruit on the table and they say, well, we know that there are certain fields that fruit comes from.
01:10:37.000 You know, there might be a disease in it.
01:10:39.000 How can you figure out how that fruit got here from the field?
01:10:42.000 You know, you can go back through your supply chain and call everyone, get them to tell you how long it sat over here and who held it and put it in the truck.
01:10:51.000 The question is, if you can come up with a digital way where everyone as a collective just contributes to that along the way, can that be low cost, more efficient, and more effective?
01:11:00.000 I think it will change supply chain economics in a really big way.
01:11:05.000 And we don't fully understand the consequences for our economy yet, but I think it's coming.
01:11:11.000 Oh, that makes sense.
01:11:12.000 Kind of like a Wikipedia for each thing.
01:11:15.000 Yeah, I did it with food for you.
01:11:16.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:11:17.000 No, no, no, no, no.
01:11:18.000 That makes sense.
01:11:19.000 That makes a lot of sense.
01:11:20.000 It does.
01:11:21.000 Yeah.
01:11:22.000 Look, here's high-level nerd, but...
01:11:26.000 Our airwaves around us, our wireless airwaves that power all of our phones, we have to divide them up.
01:11:32.000 You don't see it, but it's like they're zoned so that your phone works, the television works, all of these things.
01:11:37.000 But we also have a whole bunch of airwaves that are only used sometimes.
01:11:41.000 But what if we could create secondary and tertiary rights to use them?
01:11:46.000 So that our phones were more powerful?
01:11:48.000 And what if the best way to do that was to use something like blockchain?
01:11:52.000 I mean, there's so many ways.
01:11:53.000 I think the recording ledger for cryptocurrencies could make our economy more efficient and more powerful.
01:12:00.000 And so that's what I'm interested in.
01:12:02.000 And that's probably because I don't own any Bitcoin.
01:12:04.000 I know people also in journalism have been talking about keeping articles on blockchain so they, like, internet articles don't go anywhere, you know, because people can just erase a website, like a website goes out of business, then all the articles on that website are gone.
01:12:19.000 So some people are putting websites on blockchain.
01:12:22.000 Actually, figuring out how we maintain our history in this digital world is actually, it's a real thing.
01:12:28.000 Yeah.
01:12:30.000 We haven't thought about that.
01:12:32.000 It's like cultural preservation.
01:12:33.000 Right.
01:12:34.000 If we have some sort of a solar flare, and it kills the grid, and we lose hard drives, that's real.
01:12:42.000 That actually could be a real thing.
01:12:44.000 Yeah.
01:12:45.000 And blockchain is kind of an answer for keeping information.
01:12:48.000 My hope is that we're going to eventually shift to voting online.
01:12:53.000 Doesn't Oregon do that?
01:12:54.000 Do they?
01:12:55.000 I think the state of Oregon's done some experiments with that.
01:12:59.000 We should study that.
01:13:01.000 We should make voting easier.
01:13:02.000 Yes.
01:13:03.000 That's what it comes down to.
01:13:04.000 And make it more convenient for people. 1.00
01:13:06.000 But then the thought is, well, if they're so stupid, lazy, they can't make their way to a voting booth, do we really want their opinion to be expressed? 0.99
01:13:13.000 I think the busiest people need voting on the internet. 1.00
01:13:16.000 When we talk about politics, just let us non-politicians talk mad shit. 0.99
01:13:23.000 But you have a job. 0.99
01:13:24.000 You have a job.
01:13:25.000 You've got kids.
01:13:26.000 You're trying to work there from 9. And then you find out your polling place is open from 9 to 5. Right.
01:13:31.000 That's a good point.
01:13:32.000 That's insulting.
01:13:32.000 I mean, I know that when I voted in the election, The last election?
01:13:36.000 The presidential election?
01:13:37.000 I think you can guess.
01:13:38.000 The last election.
01:13:39.000 In Washington, I had to wait 35 minutes before I got in.
01:13:44.000 In the middle of my day.
01:13:47.000 That's a commitment.
01:13:48.000 It's a commitment I'm willing to make.
01:13:49.000 It's a commitment I'm privileged enough to take that time and make it.
01:13:53.000 We've got to make it easier for people.
01:13:55.000 I'm absolutely joking around, and I really do think that we should make it much easier to vote.
01:13:58.000 And I think you should be registered to vote the same way you're registered to drive.
01:14:01.000 I mean, if you have a driver's license, I think you should be registered to vote.
01:14:04.000 I think it should be just that easy.
01:14:06.000 And I think you should be able to do it online.
01:14:08.000 And I think if you have a social security number, you should be able to vote.
01:14:11.000 I think it should be really easy.
01:14:12.000 And I think that's not outside the realm of possibility.
01:14:14.000 I think we're operating on these antiquated systems, and we've accepted them as fact, and this is the way things are.
01:14:21.000 And I just think that's nonsense.
01:14:23.000 It's not a good system.
01:14:24.000 Totally.
01:14:25.000 Yeah, I mean, like, if you live in Florida, I remember when I was trying to vote in Florida, like, the polling stations were in churches, and I'd go, and it was an uncomfortable thing to go to a church where I'm pretty much the only Chinese guy voting.
01:14:38.000 You know, a lot of people say really wild things to you online, like, when you're waiting to vote, and I'm like, I would have loved to vote online.
01:14:45.000 Like, what were they saying to you?
01:14:46.000 Well, you're probably going for that carry, huh?
01:14:50.000 You know what I mean?
01:14:50.000 Because this was, like, the John Kerry year.
01:14:52.000 You're probably going for carry, and I was...
01:14:54.000 It's none of your business, bro.
01:14:56.000 But also, I'm like, why do I have to go vote at a church?
01:14:59.000 I don't go to this church.
01:15:01.000 People get so intense when it comes to voting, when it comes to tribalism.
01:15:04.000 Super, super intense.
01:15:06.000 People just say things to you in a voting line, and I'm like, this discourages a lot of people that may have a minority opinion in their neighborhood.
01:15:14.000 I think you should have some sort of an understanding about what you're voting for, too.
01:15:18.000 I mean, I would like voting to be much easier, but I would also like there to be some accountability.
01:15:24.000 Like you should know what you're actually voting.
01:15:27.000 Maybe there should be like some sort of a quick online poll or some sort of a quick Like, can you spell this candidate's name?
01:15:34.000 You know, I think that violates the Constitution, so I'm just gonna say that.
01:15:37.000 Does it?
01:15:38.000 Yeah.
01:15:38.000 The Constitution had nothing to do with the internet.
01:15:40.000 They didn't know nothing back then.
01:15:42.000 I mean, a constitutional meaning like...
01:15:43.000 You don't have tests for voting?
01:15:45.000 No, I don't mean that.
01:15:47.000 No, I don't want a test for voting.
01:15:49.000 I think we're just expressing the frustration where, like, a lot of people just get ushered in like sheep to go vote for people.
01:15:56.000 I think you're expressing that you want there to be accountability.
01:15:59.000 Yes.
01:15:59.000 And you want people to be aware.
01:16:01.000 I would like people to know what they're voting about.
01:16:03.000 But participation.
01:16:04.000 If you could answer what you're voting, if you understand it.
01:16:08.000 Maybe there's some sort of an amendment that's being passed or something that's being passed where you don't understand exactly what you're getting into.
01:16:17.000 And maybe there should be a way that we find out if you understand it.
01:16:22.000 I know that you have the good intentions for it, but I read these cases that once you have a test for people to vote, I mean, the powers that be, I mean, look at gerrymandering, you know, like, it's anytime you introduce that, it, it always sets like the populace back.
01:16:37.000 But I do, I do really connect with Joe's sentiment, which is like, a lot of people voting aren't aren't actually participating consciously in the process.
01:16:48.000 Yeah, I mean, listen, I think being a citizen is a job.
01:16:50.000 You actually have to spend some time and, you know, think about what you're authorizing for the world, what the future is going to look like and how you're going to participate in shaping it merely by voting.
01:17:01.000 I think it's a real job and I think more people are aware of that now than they used to be.
01:17:06.000 It's also, there's so much to pay attention to.
01:17:08.000 It is.
01:17:09.000 It's exhausting, right?
01:17:10.000 It is.
01:17:10.000 When the elections come around and you just realize all the different things that are up, and you just go over all the different issues and all the different possibilities, and you're like, oh, God.
01:17:22.000 Yeah.
01:17:22.000 I voted in California last time.
01:17:24.000 All the propositions are like, whoa, this is interesting.
01:17:27.000 Well, California's interesting with that.
01:17:29.000 Yeah.
01:17:30.000 But the local stuff is really important.
01:17:32.000 We spend so much time talking about national elections.
01:17:34.000 But the people around you who really have power to change your life are often your most local representatives.
01:17:42.000 Yeah.
01:17:43.000 Sometimes I worry that we pay the least amount of attention to those races.
01:17:46.000 Oh, yeah. 0.99
01:17:47.000 We drive down the street and you see some guy's got a sign on his lawn for some dude running for some shit you didn't even know was up. 0.99
01:17:53.000 It's like, is he a politician or a realtor? 0.99
01:17:55.000 How many people do they even need to win one of those elections?
01:17:59.000 Yeah, I'm curious.
01:17:59.000 That's where you start, Eddie.
01:18:01.000 That's where you start your empire.
01:18:03.000 San Gabriel Valley.
01:18:04.000 Yeah, before you're the vice president with Oprah, that's what you gotta do.
01:18:09.000 I can't do it, man.
01:18:10.000 I can't do it.
01:18:11.000 Will everyone get a car?
01:18:12.000 Everyone gets a car!
01:18:30.000 I think they're trying it out in some place with 12. What's the one?
01:18:36.000 $250 a week?
01:18:37.000 $30 is good with some like, alright, if you do get a job and you make some money, you're really paying some taxes.
01:18:44.000 Interesting.
01:18:45.000 There's a way.
01:18:47.000 Automation is not going to hit the economy at the same time or all sectors of the economy at the same time in the same way.
01:18:56.000 I think it's coming faster than we think.
01:18:58.000 Not that I'm wishing for this.
01:18:59.000 I just think it...
01:19:01.000 It is because my stocks and robotics keep going up.
01:19:06.000 That's my evidence.
01:19:07.000 Well, Elon Musk is fairly convinced universal basic income is the way to go.
01:19:11.000 He thinks that in the future that's just going to be inevitable because there's going to be so many things that are automated.
01:19:17.000 There's going to be so many people that are out of work.
01:19:18.000 Yeah.
01:19:19.000 Although I think it will change our conception of work, what we do to be productive individuals.
01:19:26.000 People work too much, that's for sure.
01:19:28.000 I agree.
01:19:28.000 I think people work way too much.
01:19:30.000 You know, I mean, you live and then you're dead, and you have a heart attack when you're 60. Is that really what we're doing?
01:19:35.000 I mean, isn't there a better way?
01:19:37.000 How about working three days a week?
01:19:39.000 You know, or four days a week?
01:19:41.000 Four.
01:19:42.000 Three off, four on.
01:19:43.000 That seems reasonable.
01:19:45.000 I work seven, but it's things I love, so I don't feel like it's work.
01:19:48.000 But none of my stuff actually feels...
01:19:50.000 I mean...
01:19:50.000 How many days would you do the podcast?
01:19:52.000 I do it a lot, but I have other jobs.
01:19:55.000 I do stand-up at night, I do the UFC commentary, but none of them are jobs.
01:19:59.000 Same.
01:20:00.000 This is barely a job.
01:20:01.000 Same.
01:20:01.000 I love it.
01:20:02.000 But also you're your own boss, which makes work way different.
01:20:07.000 Makes a different thing.
01:20:08.000 It's very different than it is for most people.
01:20:10.000 Yes.
01:20:11.000 Yeah, that's what I want most people to escape.
01:20:13.000 I want them to escape the grind of having to be somewhere because someone tells you you have to.
01:20:18.000 Having to do something because someone tells you you have to do it.
01:20:21.000 Getting a small amount of money while other people make more.
01:20:25.000 I think, though, the economy is changing.
01:20:27.000 I mean, it used to be that there was an employer with many employees.
01:20:33.000 I think, increasingly, we're all going to be the employee with many employers, and that we're going to have a web of contracts and activities that we use to sustain ourselves economically over time.
01:20:46.000 I think you saw that developing, the internet and the new platforms that are coming aboard.
01:20:53.000 There's consequences of that for healthcare and other issues that I don't think we've fully tackled.
01:20:58.000 But I think that there is change coming.
01:21:00.000 That lifetime employment and preparing for it with a single degree out of high school is, I think, something that is going to look like a historical moment more than the future.
01:21:10.000 You know, there's the Johnny Naysayers out there that I always get frustrated by.
01:21:14.000 They're like, yeah, man, not everybody can do that.
01:21:17.000 Not everybody can work for themselves.
01:21:18.000 Guess what?
01:21:19.000 We're not talking to everybody.
01:21:22.000 If you're not capable, that's okay.
01:21:24.000 But there's a lot of people out there that are capable that just aren't doing it.
01:21:28.000 Yeah.
01:21:29.000 They're scared.
01:21:29.000 Yeah.
01:21:30.000 And they don't have to be because we were all scared.
01:21:32.000 Everybody was scared.
01:21:33.000 It seemed like comfort.
01:21:38.000 And having some sort of security.
01:21:40.000 It's a real need that a lot of people have.
01:21:43.000 That comfort and security and knowing that your bills are going to be paid and everything's going to be taken care of, that's hard for people to shake off.
01:21:52.000 Yeah, comfort's also a huge weakness, I think, at times.
01:21:54.000 Like, a lot of times.
01:21:55.000 You know, if you're too comfortable, you become complacent.
01:21:58.000 Like, challenges, failures, that's where I really start to examine myself and I'm like, how do I be better tomorrow?
01:22:05.000 Growth and comfort don't go together.
01:22:07.000 Yeah.
01:22:09.000 For anybody.
01:22:10.000 Yeah.
01:22:10.000 But then people get families, and then when you get families, you don't want to take any risks.
01:22:15.000 That's a problem as well.
01:22:17.000 People have mortgages and children and they don't want to do anything that might put them in the unemployment line.
01:22:23.000 But to be clear, that could be a really smart and responsible choice at some point when you have a lot of people relying on you.
01:22:29.000 Yeah.
01:22:29.000 That's the most rational thing you can do.
01:22:32.000 Yeah, that's a real problem for people.
01:22:33.000 But like a blackjack dealer told me last week, scared money don't make money.
01:22:37.000 Wow, did you say that?
01:22:38.000 Yeah.
01:22:38.000 Double down.
01:22:39.000 Double down.
01:22:40.000 Double down.
01:22:41.000 I'm showing a four.
01:22:42.000 And how did that bad go? 0.90
01:22:42.000 He pulled a seven and I got screwed. 0.90
01:22:46.000 But that's why you go to Vegas. 0.80
01:22:47.000 I told him, I was like, this is why I come to Vegas.
01:22:49.000 To lose money.
01:22:50.000 Well, yeah.
01:22:51.000 Well, yeah.
01:22:52.000 You set a limit and you lose it.
01:22:55.000 And I just tell everyone at the tables, I'm like, professional gambling, that's what we're here for.
01:23:00.000 Like, if you hit on 17, then always hit on 17. If you hit on 16, then, or if you stay on 16, stay on 16. But I'm like, let's practice professional gambling.
01:23:10.000 Professional gambling is not hit on 17 though, right?
01:23:13.000 That's wild people stuff.
01:23:15.000 If they're showing a face card, some people hit.
01:23:18.000 I mean, not 17. I was saying 16. I meant 16. I said the wrong thing.
01:23:22.000 I always stay on 16 even if they're showing a face card.
01:23:26.000 I'm like, I just stay on 16. Really?
01:23:28.000 Yeah.
01:23:28.000 I'm conservative.
01:23:30.000 But then I'll double down.
01:23:31.000 I always double down.
01:23:32.000 Yeah, the hit on 17. That's those wild white people you were talking about. 1.00
01:23:36.000 Those are the people we need you to turn, Joe.
01:23:40.000 They're listening.
01:23:42.000 Cowboys.
01:23:42.000 Those people listen.
01:23:43.000 They're listening.
01:23:44.000 Yeah.
01:23:45.000 All right.
01:23:45.000 I guess we probably should wrap this up.
01:23:47.000 Jessica, tell everybody what your Twitter handle is.
01:23:51.000 Sure.
01:23:52.000 It's jrosenworcel.
01:23:54.000 Yeah, I think I am going to spell that.
01:23:56.000 It's a long last name.
01:23:58.000 So that's at J-R-O-S-E-N-W-O-R-C-E-L. And so your advice is people should do the old-fashioned thing, make those phone calls.
01:24:12.000 My advice is make a ruckus.
01:24:14.000 Nothing gets done without a little noise.
01:24:17.000 This is one of those times, and I think being a citizen requires us all to speak up right now.
01:24:22.000 Make a ruckus online as well.
01:24:24.000 Let people know on your social media, your Facebook, your Twitter, all that jazz.
01:24:28.000 Yep.
01:24:28.000 Get in the Pornhub comments.
01:24:30.000 Hashtag net neutrality.
01:24:32.000 Yeah.
01:24:32.000 That's not what she said.
01:24:33.000 That's what I said.
01:24:34.000 I can't believe you leave comments.
01:24:37.000 I can't believe I know somebody leaves comments.
01:24:39.000 So, Mr. Eddie Wong on Twitter and Instagram as well.
01:24:44.000 Same thing?
01:24:45.000 Same thing, man.
01:24:45.000 All right.
01:24:46.000 Thank you, brother.
01:24:47.000 Thanks for putting this together.
01:24:48.000 I really appreciate it. 0.91
01:24:48.000 Death squad. 0.91
01:24:49.000 It's very important when people talk about this stuff.
01:24:51.000 Thank you.
01:24:51.000 Thank you, Jessica, for being here.
01:24:52.000 Appreciate it.
01:24:53.000 And thank you, everybody, for listening.
01:24:54.000 All right.
01:24:54.000 Bye.
01:24:54.000 Thanks, Joe.
01:24:56.000 That was fun, man.