The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1076 - Phil Demers

00:00:00.000 Legit, legit.

00:00:01.000 I don't sit on wallets.

00:00:02.000 I don't play with wallets. 1.00

00:00:03.000 Fuck no. 1.00

00:00:05.000 You ready? 1.00

00:00:08.000 I wasn't sure you got up to move cameras around.

00:00:12.000 Phil, show me.

00:00:14.000 It's a mini fanny pack.

00:00:15.000 It's very small.

00:00:16.000 It's like you can carry cash and a small phone.

00:00:20.000 You can't carry a modern phone.

00:00:21.000 That's like pre-modern phones.

00:00:23.000 The six fits in there.

00:00:24.000 The six plus would be a problem. 0.85

00:00:26.000 Maybe. 1.00

00:00:27.000 Bang against your dick. 1.00

00:00:28.000 I've got to tighten her up. 1.00

00:00:29.000 So what's going on, man?

00:00:30.000 So for everybody who hasn't seen you on the podcast before, let's give them a brief synopsis.

00:00:36.000 You were a trainer at one time at Marine Land, and you're known as the Walrus Whisperer.

00:00:43.000 That's your handle on Twitter.

00:00:45.000 Which I didn't select.

00:00:46.000 You didn't?

00:00:47.000 No.

00:00:48.000 How'd you get it?

00:00:48.000 I was on a TV show called Wipeout, and it was grassroots as hell in Canada.

00:00:53.000 So basically what they do is they fly you out to Argentina, they sort of rent the course, and then instead of it being, you know, wipeout whatever country, this time it's Canada.

00:01:04.000 So it was really grassrootsy, and so they told us, if you guys can help advertise, so get on your Twitters, get on your this, get on your that.

00:01:11.000 They called me Walrus Whisperer.

00:01:13.000 It just made sense to put it.

00:01:14.000 Otherwise...

00:01:15.000 Oh, I see.

00:01:15.000 I don't particularly love it.

00:01:17.000 So it was like for a show.

00:01:18.000 It was for a show.

00:01:18.000 But let's explain, you worked for Marineland, you got fired, you were taking care of this walrus, and it became like a big cause because a lot of people were concerned about the animal safety there, and since then they've been sighted.

00:01:33.000 Like, what has happened with Marineland?

00:01:35.000 Okay, so I'll give you a quick rundown.

00:01:39.000 I worked at Marineland.

00:01:40.000 I was a killer whale trainer.

00:01:41.000 I was the guy jumping off the killer whales, doing the flips off dolphins, everything else.

00:01:45.000 I wasn't fired.

00:01:47.000 I quit amidst some duress, a difficult period where, and I'll elaborate, basically a water disinfection unit broke down and the resolve wasn't so much to fix it, it was to pump it with more and more chlorine.

00:02:00.000 Basically, the way water is disinfected at Marineland, they use an ozone generator, so they use ozone in conjunction with the chlorine, sort of mitigate the chlorine use.

00:02:09.000 They elected instead, or rather the sole controlling mind elected to put off actually fixing it, and let's just, at night, they're pumping it with chlorine.

00:02:18.000 Well, you can just imagine the effects.

00:02:20.000 And I'm not talking about a little bit of chlorine.

00:02:21.000 So this was a tough time.

00:02:22.000 So I actually quit.

00:02:23.000 I actually quit on this.

00:02:24.000 Wait a minute, imagine the effects.

00:02:25.000 So it hurt the animals.

00:02:26.000 Oh.

00:02:28.000 We talked about this on the earlier shows, that people want to go back in time a few years to when you first appeared on the show.

00:02:34.000 There was like some serious issues, health issues with dolphins, right?

00:02:38.000 Yeah.

00:02:38.000 Their skin's peeling off.

00:02:40.000 They've got ulcers. 0.93

00:02:41.000 I mean, the sea lions are losing fur and patches, bleeding out.

00:02:45.000 I mean, in this case, at least one animal died, and things started getting real bad.

00:02:49.000 And, of course, my walrus in all of this is there.

00:02:53.000 And she's in the water as well, so this only compounds the issue.

00:02:56.000 And the thing about the walrus is it's, and I use the word a lot, it's anomalous, my relationship with it.

00:03:01.000 She thinks I'm her mom.

00:03:03.000 It was like a scientific thing that happened.

00:03:05.000 Her brain circuitry opens.

00:03:06.000 I imprint on her, so my smell, everything I look like.

00:03:09.000 Because you were dancing when she was a baby.

00:03:11.000 Well, she was actually two years old when it happened.

00:03:13.000 That's what makes it kind of...

00:03:14.000 That's not a baby?

00:03:15.000 That's not a baby, no.

00:03:16.000 How old is that in the walrus world?

00:03:18.000 Like, is it dog years?

00:03:19.000 No, she's still young.

00:03:20.000 Do you know how to have dog years?

00:03:22.000 She's babyish, yeah.

00:03:23.000 Two years is not...

00:03:24.000 But she's fairly young, and you were her caretaker, so she imprinted that you were her parent.

00:03:30.000 Well, it was sort of a traumatic thing that happened.

00:03:32.000 We were drawing blood from them because back then, you know, they're not trained to accept the pain of drawing blood.

00:03:40.000 And so she wasn't conditioned for this.

00:03:42.000 They were young.

00:03:42.000 We had to get blood.

00:03:43.000 So we were actually doing a job on another walrus and she was sort of loose running out.

00:03:47.000 And we were wrestling her down.

00:03:49.000 And Smushy come over and she's climbing, hectic and crazy. 0.65

00:03:53.000 And, you know, she's still... 0.97

00:03:55.000 Almost 300 pounds at that point.

00:03:57.000 You gotta move her. 0.98

00:03:57.000 If she's climbing all over you, it's a big obstruction. 0.98

00:04:00.000 So I sort of put my hands in front of her face, and that's when it happened.

00:04:03.000 I'm telling you, it was like a magical moment.

00:04:07.000 All of a sudden, something happened.

00:04:08.000 And she just looked at me.

00:04:09.000 Her eyes changed.

00:04:10.000 I changed.

00:04:11.000 I was now a different person.

00:04:12.000 I'm now her mom.

00:04:12.000 She was following me.

00:04:13.000 So I walked down away from the scene.

00:04:15.000 She was following me.

00:04:16.000 And from that moment on, she never stopped.

00:04:18.000 And that just sort of became the basis of our relationship, is that I sort of raised her.

00:04:21.000 So dude, you put the touch on her.

00:04:23.000 They put the touch on her, yeah, with these two hands right here, right in front of her face. 0.86

00:04:26.000 And is that a normal thing with animals?

00:04:29.000 Like I said, it almost never happens.

00:04:30.000 You hear of animals imprinting on humans a lot of times.

00:04:33.000 Not usually at her age.

00:04:35.000 That was a bit advanced for that to happen.

00:04:36.000 Usually it happens when they're very young, right?

00:04:38.000 If it's going to happen, yeah.

00:04:39.000 But it does happen when people raise bears and a lot of weird animals that you wouldn't ordinarily think is pets.

00:04:45.000 But I don't know if it would be an actual imprint.

00:04:47.000 Like, the imprint is different.

00:04:49.000 There's one thing of familiarizing an animal with someone.

00:04:51.000 How do you differentiate?

00:04:52.000 Well, it's just, it's natural.

00:04:53.000 Oh, she's protective of me.

00:04:55.000 She will not leave my side.

00:04:56.000 I mean, I could walk to the edge of the earth with her and she'll be beside me.

00:04:58.000 You can't do that with her.

00:04:59.000 And is she still in Marineland right now?

00:05:02.000 Yes, I haven't seen any updated photos in some time, so I can't be absolutely sure, but yeah, I'm fairly sure.

00:05:08.000 But she's hidden.

00:05:09.000 They do not bring her on display.

00:05:11.000 She's not on display.

00:05:11.000 You're not going to find her.

00:05:12.000 Why?

00:05:15.000 They hide the pinnipeds, basically, seals, sea lions, and walruses.

00:05:20.000 In her case, she doesn't perform anymore.

00:05:22.000 When she comes out, she's not reliable.

00:05:23.000 You can't get her to do anything.

00:05:24.000 All she does is goes out on stage and she looks for me, frantically.

00:05:27.000 So she's not reliable.

00:05:28.000 So they bring her out between shows occasionally so she can see the sun, and that's it.

00:05:32.000 And so, you know, I've got to have people in there with video cameras ready.

00:05:36.000 I mean, it's tough, but we get the videos.

00:05:38.000 I get the information I need.

00:05:41.000 So, what's going on with you and them now?

00:05:45.000 Because there's been a series of lawsuits, and this is one of the reasons why you wanted to come in here and talk, right?

00:05:49.000 So they sued me, of course, frivolously.

00:05:53.000 They sued me with plotting to steal a walrus is their allegation.

00:05:58.000 This was in 2000. This is actually five-year anniversary comes up on Valentine's Day.

00:06:03.000 Plotting to steal a walrus.

00:06:04.000 Did you try to get her out of there?

00:06:06.000 No.

00:06:07.000 If I tried to get her out of there, I'd have her today. 1.00

00:06:09.000 No, I wouldn't.

00:06:10.000 I have nowhere to put a walrus.

00:06:12.000 Well, that's not true.

00:06:12.000 I do have a river in the front yard.

00:06:13.000 But I have no interest in releasing her into the Niagara River and then watch her go over the falls.

00:06:18.000 I have no interest in that.

00:06:20.000 So no, nothing like that.

00:06:21.000 I don't have a beachfront Arctic home to carry her to. 0.96

00:06:23.000 But yeah, so they started suing the shit out of anyone who spoke. 0.94

00:06:27.000 Anyone who spoke on the record was getting sued. 0.96

00:06:29.000 So it wasn't just me.

00:06:29.000 It was a number of people.

00:06:33.000 And, yeah, so we just elected to try to fight as long as we could, try to sustain this legal battle because, you know, in lawsuits, you've got to reveal a lot of information in a lawsuit.

00:06:42.000 It's not fun.

00:06:42.000 Like this, I mean, Relance had everything from my phone to like, I mean, not physically, but I've given them everything.

00:06:46.000 What do you mean by everything like your phone?

00:06:48.000 You mean phone records?

00:06:49.000 All communications, I have everything, yeah.

00:06:50.000 Wait a minute.

00:06:51.000 So if they sue you for trying to take a walrus that you didn't actually try to take, they can get access to your phone records?

00:06:58.000 They can ruin your life.

00:06:59.000 Yeah, but that doesn't mean anything.

00:07:01.000 They can get access to your phone.

00:07:02.000 Why would they have access to your phone records?

00:07:05.000 I have a legal obligation of giving them anything that is relevant to their claim.

00:07:10.000 So be it communications, be it photographs.

00:07:13.000 Yeah, but what does that mean?

00:07:14.000 Does that mean they can read all your text messages, read all your emails, read all...

00:07:18.000 They got it all, yeah.

00:07:19.000 They know who you've called.

00:07:21.000 To try to build their case.

00:07:21.000 Everything, yeah.

00:07:22.000 Wow.

00:07:23.000 It's crazy.

00:07:23.000 And I have zero from them after five years.

00:07:26.000 Because they're using the system as a means to simply abuse me, and acting the fool, as Marineland's legal team does exceptionally well, proves very effective in abusing a guy like me, whereas a corporation with endless amounts of money just sue the shit out of me.

00:07:41.000 So they're basically just suing you to punish you and to try to keep other people from doing the same thing and talking out about them. 0.71

00:07:48.000 They've sued media.

00:07:50.000 They've sued an 18-year-old kid from California who didn't...

00:07:54.000 It was a yet-to-be-released project movie he made, almost like a cartoon.

00:08:00.000 It was in the key of Marineland's...

00:08:04.000 Canada's last remaining orca, Kiska.

00:08:07.000 And...

00:08:09.000 Marineland caught wind of that and they sued him for a million bucks.

00:08:12.000 Of course, I assume that's settled now.

00:08:13.000 I don't know.

00:08:14.000 There's no way of knowing because I haven't heard anything of it.

00:08:16.000 And what was their lawsuit based on?

00:08:20.000 They, at least in what I, I think I just scanned the documents, but they alleged that, I can't remember.

00:08:28.000 How does that work when they sue someone from California?

00:08:30.000 Does he have to go to Canada?

00:08:31.000 That's interesting.

00:08:32.000 I don't know, actually.

00:08:33.000 And that's what was so confusing about it.

00:08:35.000 I was like, now you're suing Americans and stuff?

00:08:38.000 Like, I don't know if that works.

00:08:39.000 They sued another writer, in fact, as well, an American writer. 1.00

00:08:43.000 They don't give a shit. 0.99

00:08:44.000 They'll just sue you. 0.99

00:08:45.000 Didn't they get fined recently?

00:08:48.000 Didn't something happen along those lines?

00:08:50.000 Yeah, they got charged with 11 counts of animal cruelty a little over a year ago.

00:08:58.000 I was in court, of course.

00:09:00.000 Marineland sues OSPCA for $21 million, alleges agency wanted to destroy the theme park.

00:09:05.000 So that's where we're going.

00:09:06.000 So basically, down the road, over the course of...

00:09:10.000 Okay, I gotta get into this.

00:09:11.000 Okay.

00:09:11.000 So the charges, they have 11 charges of animal cruelty.

00:09:13.000 First, they were five or six, and then an additional five or six.

00:09:17.000 Now there's a total of 11 charges for animal cruelty that Marineland has to go to the criminal court to defend against.

00:09:21.000 Okay.

00:09:22.000 They drag it on, as always. 1.00

00:09:23.000 I'm in court every freaking day, you can bet your ass. 1.00

00:09:25.000 Um... 0.99

00:09:27.000 Even one time, it was a confidential meeting.

00:09:30.000 In fact, it was not for public. 0.99

00:09:32.000 Me and a local writer knock on the door, sort of walk in, and the lawyers are looking at us like, the fuck are you doing here, bro? 0.87

00:09:38.000 We're like, hey, can we sit in on this? 0.98

00:09:40.000 But anyways...

00:09:41.000 Hold on, I don't know what you just said.

00:09:44.000 During the negotiations between the crown and the OSPCA for the crown.

00:09:49.000 The crown?

00:09:49.000 Yeah, the crown.

00:09:49.000 That's the one who would be laying the charges.

00:09:51.000 The animal cruelty charges.

00:09:53.000 So you get charged.

00:09:54.000 What is the crown?

00:09:55.000 The crown is the justice.

00:09:57.000 He's essentially the judge.

00:09:59.000 So you're before the judge.

00:10:00.000 It's Canadian talk. 0.99

00:10:01.000 We don't know what the fuck that means. 0.99

00:10:03.000 The crown. 0.99

00:10:05.000 He doesn't wear one.

00:10:07.000 So it's like crown land.

00:10:09.000 I know crown land is public land.

00:10:11.000 Yeah, so I imagine that's probably in some capacity why it's called Crown.

00:10:16.000 I don't know.

00:10:16.000 I'm not a legal expert.

00:10:18.000 But nonetheless, so they're in there negotiating.

00:10:20.000 And basically, the way animal cruelty charges are pursued is they have to meet two thresholds.

00:10:27.000 Number one, you have to have a reasonable chance of conviction.

00:10:32.000 Number two, it has to be in the public's interest to pursue.

00:10:36.000 A series of the first charges were immediately dropped because, and this is just driving me crazy for years that this has been going on and it continues. 0.97

00:10:45.000 But if I, for instance, if I make a complaint to the OSPC and I provide a photo of an animal, which of course I did, that is clearly damaged and fucked up.

00:10:53.000 If they don't physically have evidence of who it is that's actually harming the animal, there's no cruelty.

00:10:59.000 They can't do anything.

00:11:00.000 So in that case, they dropped a lot of the charges against Marine Land because the evidence didn't actually point to anyone specifically.

00:11:06.000 It was just evidence of damaged animals.

00:11:08.000 Okay.

00:11:08.000 So they threw a bunch out.

00:11:09.000 Okay.

00:11:10.000 But then there was a bunch that they did have a good chance at a conviction.

00:11:14.000 And this is where Marineland promised the Crown that this was going to be a very expensive process, a long and drawn-out process, and the Crown agreed that it didn't exceed the threshold of being in the public's interest in spending a lot of public dollars pursuing these charges,

00:11:32.000 and so they dropped the rest of them.

00:11:34.000 Marineland turns around and sues the OSPCA for $21 million, claiming that It was malicious prosecution.

00:11:40.000 Of course, they didn't name me specifically, but I'm always the unnamed Marineland employee in that.

00:11:45.000 And they allege that I threatened to defund them.

00:11:47.000 They think I'm this Kaiser Soze-like character, which I don't mind playing up a little bit.

00:11:51.000 But they think I'm pulling strings all over the place and that I half exist, half don't.

00:11:54.000 I think there's employees there that think that I'm like, I don't know.

00:11:58.000 So they get brought up on 11 charges of animal cruelty.

00:12:02.000 The charges get dropped and they turn around and sue the government.

00:12:05.000 21 million dollars.

00:12:06.000 The same government that let them off for years.

00:12:08.000 The OSPCA has been complicit in allowing marine land to operate as they have unimpeded for 50 years.

00:12:16.000 They've had a good relationship.

00:12:17.000 Marine land in fact donated the land of which the Niagara Falls Humane Society is built on, which is where the OSPCA operates on it.

00:12:25.000 That's hilarious.

00:12:26.000 There was a plaque on the wall until, you know, after 2012 when we sort of spoke out that honored Marineland's owner John Holer for his generosity.

00:12:34.000 Wow.

00:12:35.000 Yeah, you sort of get red-pilled.

00:12:36.000 Is that red pill?

00:12:37.000 Is that the right pill?

00:12:37.000 Pretty quickly when you...

00:12:39.000 Yes, that's the wake-up pill.

00:12:41.000 So that was my wait-what moment? 1.00

00:12:42.000 Holy fuck. 0.99

00:12:44.000 Things started to change pretty fast for me once I'd realized the depth of which Marineland was sort of in with all levels of government, really. 1.00

00:12:51.000 All levels of government.

00:12:52.000 And so they continued to sort of allow for them to do these things.

00:12:56.000 But they're suing the government.

00:12:58.000 Yeah, interestingly.

00:12:59.000 So they can't possibly be in bed with the government and suing them.

00:13:02.000 Or the Canadian Association of Zoos and Aquarium, which used to accredit all the zoos in Canada, or still does, they accredit them, so they try to say, oh, this is a good zoo, it's accredited.

00:13:12.000 Marineland, I believe, also threatened them, because they were not going to renew their agreement this year.

00:13:20.000 And so Marineland claimed to have...

00:13:22.000 Left them, and they said, you know, we're in a phase of development right now.

00:13:27.000 We're going to just leave this Canadian Association of Zoos and Aquarium. 0.99

00:13:30.000 It's absolute bullshit. 0.99

00:13:32.000 They were not... 0.99

00:13:32.000 So, yeah, Marine Lines basically has... 0.99

00:13:34.000 They're out of friends.

00:13:36.000 That's for sure, finally. 0.99

00:13:37.000 But it took a lot of eating shit to finally get to that point. 0.99

00:13:41.000 But the real issue, in your mind, is the way they treat the animals, the way they run their business. 0.99

00:13:46.000 Right?

00:13:47.000 Is that accurate?

00:13:47.000 I would say that I've expanded now into just arguing that those animals should not be, A, in marine land's possession, B, altogether.

00:13:55.000 The whales in pools is done.

00:13:57.000 It should be done.

00:13:58.000 It's done.

00:13:58.000 It should be done.

00:13:59.000 And I think after Blackfish, I mean, before you came on, or when you came on, it was before Blackfish had been released, and then once people saw what actually happens to these super intelligent animals when you lock them up in swimming pools, They're starting to realize it and see world's attendance is down and people are down on the whole idea,

00:14:18.000 especially killer whales.

00:14:20.000 I mean, God, they're just these giant majestic animals. 0.99

00:14:22.000 It seems so fucked up to put them in these tanks. 0.99

00:14:26.000 And to separate them from families. 1.00

00:14:28.000 I mean, the emotional distress they go through.

00:14:29.000 I'm a firm believer that emotionally we don't even have the slightest sense of how complex they can be.

00:14:34.000 Right, because they don't have an ability to express themselves to us, other than eating us occasionally, which killer whales only do in captivity.

00:14:42.000 Yeah, there's no records of killer whale attacks in the wild on humans. 0.98

00:14:45.000 Yeah, they fuck people up in captivity, though. 0.99

00:14:47.000 They're like, enough! 0.99

00:14:49.000 Oh, I've been in the pool with a pissed-off killer whale.

00:14:50.000 Have you?

00:14:51.000 Oh, yeah.

00:14:51.000 I jumped in one time.

00:14:52.000 I mean, I was a stubborn dude.

00:14:54.000 I was a bit of a cowboy as a young guy, too, like an adrenaline junkie.

00:14:56.000 I like to have fun.

00:14:57.000 I like to jump off the killer whale.

00:14:58.000 I like to throw me up high.

00:15:00.000 I was having a show with her.

00:15:01.000 Does she throw you with her tail? 1.00

00:15:03.000 No, on the end of her rostrum, right on the end of her nose.

00:15:05.000 It's called a rocket ride.

00:15:06.000 You get on the front of the whale...

00:15:09.000 As such at the top of the water and then she starts to pump her tail and then you dive down with her.

00:15:13.000 She'll follow you everywhere you go.

00:15:15.000 And then it's like flying a plane, man.

00:15:17.000 It's amazing.

00:15:17.000 And then you just arc up and then she just takes it to the moon and she's screaming underwater when she's having a good time or rather when she's expressing herself that she's going to toss you.

00:15:24.000 This particular time when I probably shouldn't have gone in the water.

00:15:28.000 Why?

00:15:29.000 Well, she was pissed. 0.93

00:15:30.000 I could see it in her eyes.

00:15:31.000 How could you tell that she's pissed?

00:15:32.000 You know the animals lick it.

00:15:33.000 I mean, that's the whole basis of being a trainer is to get to know the animals, know their behavior, know everything about them.

00:15:38.000 You spend a lot of time with them.

00:15:39.000 What are the indications?

00:15:41.000 So in this case, I was...

00:15:42.000 So the way the shows work, I mean, they don't exist anymore, but back in the day was you worked the animal initially to get a sense of their demeanor.

00:15:49.000 So you got them jump in, you got them run around, you get engaged, you know, you get a good sense of how they are.

00:15:53.000 On that particular day...

00:15:56.000 She just wasn't responding real quick.

00:15:57.000 Her eyes were a little big.

00:15:59.000 She wasn't focused on me.

00:16:00.000 She's looking elsewhere.

00:16:01.000 She's sort of drifting off a bit.

00:16:02.000 I just didn't really have her attention, but I think, I don't know what, maybe I had my dad in the crowd or something.

00:16:06.000 I wanted to jump off her.

00:16:07.000 So I look at the senior trainer at the time.

00:16:09.000 She's like, I don't know, dude, like you're going to jump in. 1.00

00:16:11.000 I'm like, fuck it. 1.00

00:16:11.000 I'm jumping in. 1.00

00:16:13.000 I go to jump in.

00:16:14.000 I get to the edge of the pool.

00:16:16.000 She's standing directly below me.

00:16:18.000 I dive over her. 0.97

00:16:20.000 She lunges at me and she snaps. 1.00

00:16:22.000 And I see it from below me.

00:16:24.000 Like I see under her.

00:16:25.000 She's jumped up and snapped at me. 0.99

00:16:27.000 So now I've...

00:16:28.000 Snapped at you like tried to bite you?

00:16:29.000 Yeah, she tried to grab me. 1.00

00:16:31.000 But I feel like if she really wanted to bite you, she would just bite you.

00:16:34.000 Oh yeah.

00:16:34.000 So was it a warning bite or was it a bite-bite?

00:16:41.000 Definitely a warning bite, otherwise I wouldn't be here today.

00:16:43.000 Right.

00:16:43.000 That's what I'm saying.

00:16:44.000 It's not like she would miss.

00:16:45.000 No, she's not going to miss.

00:16:46.000 And so what happens?

00:16:47.000 It gets further.

00:16:48.000 So now I'm in the water, and I'm now at the top of the water and staring down at her.

00:16:52.000 She's now inverted upside down, and she's swimming.

00:16:55.000 And she's circling the pool.

00:16:56.000 Upside down?

00:16:57.000 Yeah.

00:16:57.000 Huh.

00:16:58.000 When she gets frustrated, they start doing these things.

00:16:59.000 She's upside down, and she's swimming in circles. 0.99

00:17:01.000 And I'm looking at her going, holy shit. 0.98

00:17:02.000 If I take off out of the pool, that's going to trigger some response out of her that I don't necessarily want to know. 0.99

00:17:07.000 So I'm saying...

00:17:08.000 Why would that happen?

00:17:10.000 I think that if she doesn't want you out of the pool, you're not getting out.

00:17:13.000 If you're getting out of the pool, it's going to be her decision.

00:17:16.000 If I start trying to race out, she knows I'm trying to get out.

00:17:19.000 If she doesn't want me out, she's keeping me in it.

00:17:21.000 I don't want to know where that's going.

00:17:22.000 That's interesting.

00:17:23.000 So you knew that you had to stay in there then?

00:17:27.000 I'm without choice.

00:17:28.000 That's the best course of action at this point, because I'm not going to win a race out of that pool.

00:17:32.000 And so now I'm upright.

00:17:33.000 She comes to the surface, and I see her dorsal fin, and she's coming pretty quickly at me. 0.88

00:17:37.000 And I put my hands up like this.

00:17:39.000 I'll never forget it.

00:17:40.000 She arcs her tail down, arcs her back up, like stops dead at me. 1.00

00:17:44.000 I remember this big wake happened.

00:17:46.000 I put my hands on her rostrum, and I just sort of tap her, try to calm her.

00:17:49.000 And then I put my feet on her pecs. 1.00

00:17:51.000 She takes me to the stage.

00:17:53.000 She dunks down. 1.00

00:17:54.000 And then she picks me up, puts me on the stage.

00:17:56.000 I sort of back away like, wow, thank you.

00:17:58.000 Thank you for like...

00:17:59.000 Being nice to me.

00:18:01.000 I had a friend's dad one time there, and he's one of these guys.

00:18:04.000 I took him on a tour, and I'm like, okay, just don't touch the big male sea lions.

00:18:07.000 I mean, they got big teeth.

00:18:08.000 They want to rip your arm off. 0.75

00:18:09.000 They can't.

00:18:09.000 They're not...

00:18:10.000 Typically aggressive, but just don't touch him.

00:18:11.000 And he's in there like this.

00:18:12.000 I'm like, oh, dude.

00:18:13.000 I take him out to show the killer whale.

00:18:15.000 I could see that, and this is another time, of course, but I could see that she's losing patience, and she did the same thing.

00:18:20.000 As soon as we turned our backs, I said to him, I go, you know what?

00:18:22.000 Maybe we should just step away.

00:18:23.000 As soon as he turned his back to go, she lunged, same thing, and tried to grab. 1.00

00:18:27.000 It's crazy, man. 0.99

00:18:29.000 And I was just like, holy shit, man. 0.99

00:18:31.000 So they don't have killer whale shows there anymore? 0.99

00:18:34.000 Well, that particular killer whale, Kiska, she's the only one left in Canada.

00:18:37.000 There's no more in Canada.

00:18:38.000 There's not ever going to be.

00:18:39.000 Marieland's never going to get another one.

00:18:41.000 She's been sort of unresponsive for a long time.

00:18:43.000 She's on a lot of medication.

00:18:45.000 Medication?

00:18:46.000 Tons of medication.

00:18:47.000 Like what kind of medication do you put a killer whale on?

00:18:49.000 Well, she's got different...

00:18:51.000 I mean, you gauge the blood and you start putting them on antibiotics.

00:18:54.000 You get them on...

00:18:59.000 How do you take blood from a killer whale?

00:19:01.000 You flip them over and they've got a...

00:19:03.000 In their tail, there's a series of large veins.

00:19:05.000 You just roll them over.

00:19:06.000 And they let you?

00:19:07.000 Yeah, everything is trained in that they're going to provide it voluntarily.

00:19:12.000 And it takes a long time to train these things, but you train them to...

00:19:14.000 And you just prick it.

00:19:15.000 You just literally grab this little needle, you put it in the vein.

00:19:18.000 They don't get pissed at you?

00:19:19.000 They get pissed if you miss and you keep trying.

00:19:22.000 Don't do that. 1.00

00:19:23.000 Fuck. 1.00

00:19:24.000 Yeah, I've seen... 1.00

00:19:25.000 It happens.

00:19:26.000 But they let you take their blood.

00:19:29.000 If they're healthy and responsive, yeah, of course.

00:19:30.000 If they're not, there's nothing that's going to get them to the edge of the pool.

00:19:33.000 So you take their blood, and then what do they find?

00:19:37.000 They send it to the lab.

00:19:38.000 You want to look at cortisol levels, how the stress is.

00:19:40.000 You want to look at white blood count, see if they're fighting any infections.

00:19:43.000 You know, there's always...

00:19:45.000 You know, in her case, there's always something.

00:19:47.000 A lot of the animals are, in fact, on Valium.

00:19:48.000 A lot of different psychotic...

00:19:49.000 What?

00:19:49.000 Yeah, tons.

00:19:50.000 What?

00:19:51.000 That is like rampant use in the aquariums.

00:19:55.000 What?

00:19:56.000 Yeah.

00:19:57.000 Valium?

00:19:57.000 Yeah, Marienland accused me of stealing Valium, in fact, in the lawsuit as well, which is absolutely not true.

00:20:02.000 Is this used everywhere?

00:20:04.000 Or is it just Marienland?

00:20:05.000 No, not just Marienland.

00:20:06.000 SeaWorld's everywhere.

00:20:07.000 What?

00:20:08.000 Yes, absolutely.

00:20:09.000 They put, like, dolphins?

00:20:10.000 Dolphins are on Valium all the time, sure.

00:20:12.000 When I left Marineland, I had the agreement.

00:20:15.000 Again, I left fairly amicably, considering the situation, but I wanted to play my cards, right?

00:20:21.000 And Marineland's owner called me back in specifically to help a dolphin, and it was to feed her, of course.

00:20:27.000 I wish that wasn't the Daily Mail.

00:20:30.000 What's the other one?

00:20:31.000 The dodo?

00:20:32.000 Is the dodo a good one?

00:20:33.000 Buzzfeed.

00:20:33.000 Let's go with Buzzfeed.

00:20:34.000 SeaWorld puts its whales on Valium-like drug, documents say. 1.00

00:20:38.000 Jesus fucking Christ. 0.97

00:20:39.000 Those documents are from a lawsuit between Marineland and SeaWorld, where SeaWorld sued Marineland. 0.99

00:20:47.000 SeaWorld sued Marineland.

00:20:48.000 Yeah, all the benzodiazepines.

00:20:49.000 I'm telling you.

00:20:50.000 Wow.

00:20:51.000 Trainers give their orcas, also known as killer whales, a psychoactive drug, benzodiazepine...

00:20:58.000 According to the sworn affidavit filed in Ontario Superior Court of Justice in dispute between the Park Company and the rival company, Marineland, over the transport of a prize killer whale.

00:21:08.000 Icaica.

00:21:09.000 Icaica is, if you watch Blackfish, you've got Tilikum.

00:21:12.000 That's the one that killed people. 0.95

00:21:15.000 That's Tilikum's son.

00:21:16.000 We had his son.

00:21:17.000 Wow.

00:21:17.000 We had him, he was...

00:21:19.000 In captivity, right?

00:21:20.000 In captivity, in a pool, by himself, for the most part.

00:21:22.000 But I mean, he was raised in captivity.

00:21:23.000 Born in captivity, yep. 1.00

00:21:25.000 Yeah, which is even more fucked up. 0.99

00:21:26.000 And he was turning aggressive. 0.99

00:21:28.000 And...

00:21:28.000 SeaWorld was like, they were having none of it.

00:21:30.000 They wanted that killer whale back and I don't blame them.

00:21:32.000 It's amazing.

00:21:33.000 I'm sued for millions because I'm alleging that Marineland is mistreating their animals.

00:21:39.000 SeaWorld sues Marineland because they're mistreating, they're not taking appropriate care of the killer whale and actually win the lawsuit.

00:21:46.000 They would not put any barriers around the pool.

00:21:48.000 Marineland had a large pool.

00:21:49.000 Imagine this.

00:21:51.000 Unimpeded ability to touch a killer whale if you wanted to reach.

00:21:54.000 It's not a safe idea.

00:21:56.000 This is absurd, in fact, especially when you're dealing with a large, boisterous male orca.

00:22:01.000 So SeaWorld wanted barriers around it so that people can't get close.

00:22:04.000 Well, the owner of Marineland, you can't tell him what to do.

00:22:06.000 He's not going to do nothing.

00:22:07.000 Anyone tells him what to do.

00:22:08.000 So suddenly we're dealing with the fact that this animal started to lunge at the public.

00:22:12.000 Now, this is an animal that if it gets a hold of someone, It's over.

00:22:16.000 They're just going to toy with them for a bit.

00:22:18.000 We're going to hear a lot of screaming, but the screaming will end.

00:22:20.000 You're not getting anyone out of that killer whale's mouth.

00:22:22.000 Forget it.

00:22:23.000 And this is what SeaWorld was dealing with. 1.00

00:22:24.000 They're just like, shit. 1.00

00:22:26.000 They had enough bad press, even back then. 1.00

00:22:28.000 If ICA could kill someone or hurt someone or anything, or dies in Marine Land's character, it's going to look bad on SeaWorld. 0.99

00:22:34.000 So SeaWorld's like, get them the fuck out. 0.99

00:22:36.000 Now, when Tilikum killed people, he killed how many people? 0.99

00:22:39.000 One person in Canada?

00:22:40.000 Three.

00:22:40.000 Three or four, actually.

00:22:41.000 In Victoria, Canada, the first one, Then he went to...

00:22:46.000 I think it's absolutely hilarious that they kept training him and kept doing things with him.

00:22:50.000 Like, eh, no big deal.

00:22:52.000 If that was a pit bull, forget about it, it'd be done.

00:22:53.000 But it's a killer whale.

00:22:54.000 Or almost any animal.

00:22:55.000 Imagine if they had a lion.

00:22:56.000 They were training lions and the lion killed someone.

00:22:59.000 They'd be like, that's a wrap.

00:23:01.000 Well, actually that's not true.

00:23:03.000 There was that one grizzly bear that was a trained grizzly bear for films.

00:23:08.000 It was in, what's that movie?

00:23:10.000 Something 40?

00:23:11.000 Some football movie with a big bear?

00:23:14.000 Anyway, the bear killed a guy's brother or cousin.

00:23:20.000 The guy was just standing there.

00:23:21.000 It's a horrible video.

00:23:21.000 You can watch the video.

00:23:22.000 I've seen it.

00:23:23.000 The guy just standing there and the bear just decides to tear the guy's throat apart.

00:23:27.000 Just reaches up, bites him, rips his throat open.

00:23:29.000 The guy runs off grabbing his neck. 0.93

00:23:31.000 He's dead within minutes.

00:23:34.000 The joys of working with animals, man.

00:23:35.000 Well, that bear they kept alive and they started training him again.

00:23:39.000 And there's some really weird footage of the guy training the bear again.

00:23:44.000 It was the one from the Will Ferrell movie.

00:23:46.000 The semi-pro?

00:23:47.000 Yes!

00:23:47.000 Semi-pro.

00:23:48.000 That's the dog. 0.91

00:23:49.000 Or the...

00:23:49.000 The dog.

00:23:51.000 That's the bear. 1.00

00:23:52.000 That bear fucking killed somebody. 0.99

00:23:54.000 Look, this guy's smacking this bear around. 1.00

00:23:55.000 Look at Will.

00:23:56.000 That bear eventually killed somebody.

00:23:59.000 Just got tired of people.

00:24:00.000 It takes nothing for him.

00:24:02.000 Oh, so easy for him. 1.00

00:24:04.000 Yeah, just decided to fuck him up. 1.00

00:24:07.000 But now, when Tillicum was doing all this, he was on Valium? 0.98

00:24:12.000 Oh, I can't say for sure that that was the case.

00:24:14.000 I don't want to be sued anymore.

00:24:16.000 When did they start putting killer whales on Valium? 0.98

00:24:19.000 So in oceanariums or aquariums and shit, Valium is often used as an appetite stimulant. 0.98

00:24:29.000 So when your animal is off, they don't eat. 1.00

00:24:32.000 If they're not responding to buckets of food, you're fucked. 1.00

00:24:35.000 You're having to drop the water to get access to them because they're not interested no more. 1.00

00:24:37.000 They're not your friends anymore.

00:24:38.000 If you don't have a bucket of food, forget about it.

00:24:40.000 And so, to sort of, often enough to sort of trigger that appetite, you'll pump them with the Valium.

00:24:45.000 How do they give them Valium if they don't want to eat?

00:24:47.000 Stuff it right in the floor.

00:24:49.000 Well, you get liquid Valium, you can inject as well.

00:24:51.000 Oh, the injections.

00:24:53.000 I mean, that's a process.

00:24:54.000 The things that I've seen and done that were normal to me, and normal to anyone who's working there, is insane.

00:24:59.000 Like what?

00:25:00.000 We used to drop, we used to call this Beluga Rodeo.

00:25:03.000 And at Marineland, Marineland is notorious for having, like, we have, I say we, over 50, I put their push in 60 belugas at this point. 1.00

00:25:11.000 And this is why it's so important to start changing these fucking laws, because this is absurd. 0.98

00:25:14.000 And it creates a whole world of problems, of course, socially for these animals. 1.00

00:25:19.000 Babies get killed by males.

00:25:20.000 It's, it's, yeah, it's gross. 0.95

00:25:22.000 It's bad.

00:25:23.000 It's not manageable.

00:25:24.000 Nonetheless, what we would do is...

00:25:26.000 We would drop the water in one of the pools so you'd have, I mean, anywhere between 10 and 15 belugas flat on their stomach. 1.00

00:25:31.000 There's a grate at the bottom of the pool.

00:25:33.000 They can't move.

00:25:34.000 They can't move.

00:25:35.000 If they want to move, they can.

00:25:37.000 But they're flopping around. 0.99

00:25:38.000 But it means they're going to get fucked up bad. 0.99

00:25:40.000 Like scratched up by the ground? 0.97

00:25:42.000 So if you've got maybe a little bit of water...

00:25:44.000 We've tried different things to try to mitigate how damaged up they got.

00:25:48.000 There was one time...

00:25:49.000 I mean, they get carved up.

00:25:50.000 We used to call it...

00:25:50.000 I mean, it's morbid, but we used to joke around.

00:25:52.000 We used to call it the Caesar water because it was blood red by the time we were done with these procedures.

00:25:57.000 I'm telling you, Joe, it would make you sick.

00:25:59.000 The water was thick of blood.

00:26:02.000 And so, one time, there was a beluga named Peanut, and she started to panic.

00:26:07.000 And what she did was she repeatedly slammed her tail in a panic. 0.99

00:26:10.000 She started to bounce around like a fucking basketball. 1.00

00:26:13.000 She was getting air three feet in the air. 0.99

00:26:14.000 She's probably a 3,000-pound whale, 2,000-pound whale or something, so you're not going to stop that.

00:26:18.000 But we tried, of course, we'd jump on her.

00:26:20.000 Chunks of her tail, I'm not joking, chunks of her tail flying off, flying off. 1.00

00:26:24.000 If anyone goes to Marineland, go ask about Peanut and go take a look at her tail.

00:26:28.000 There's nothing left of it.

00:26:29.000 She's got like a nub that's sort of like jagged on the bottom. 0.99

00:26:32.000 She was fucked up after that. 0.99

00:26:33.000 Again, lots of meds, lots of recovery, but it was foul, man. 0.99

00:26:37.000 So is this benzodiazepine, is this a...

00:26:40.000 A recent thing that they started doing?

00:26:43.000 No, I wouldn't say so.

00:26:44.000 I can't vouch for any time before 2000 when I started, but for sure once we were there. 0.99

00:26:48.000 So when you go to SeaWorld and you see those killer whales and dolphins doing shows, they're just pilled up out of their fucking minds. 0.93

00:26:56.000 It's merely a semblance of their wild counterparts. 0.98

00:26:59.000 You're not going there and seeing a dynamic animal no more.

00:27:02.000 You're seeing a depressed, drugged, confused, probably frustrated animal. 0.99

00:27:07.000 And again, what those animals go through, It's difficult for people to give a shit about anything if it doesn't affect them personally. 0.99

00:27:14.000 If you see an animal going through this, you feel it. 0.99

00:27:18.000 You start to appreciate how fucked up that is. 0.98

00:27:20.000 I feel weird even calling them animals. 0.99

00:27:24.000 I feel like killer whales and dolphins in particular are so fucking intelligent. 0.98

00:27:30.000 It's hard to call them animals. 0.98

00:27:32.000 I mean, obviously humans are animals as well, but...

00:27:36.000 They are their own thing.

00:27:38.000 I mean, those marine mammals are their own thing.

00:27:41.000 They have their own world, and they dominate in it. 0.98

00:27:43.000 Yeah, and in their world, man, it's a fucking amazing world. 0.98

00:27:48.000 They're one of the only animals that we know of that has a really complex language, and we can't even decipher it. 0.95

00:27:56.000 And then just last week, Marineland in France is talking about Wiki.

00:28:00.000 It's a killer whale that just picked up...

00:28:02.000 She mimics human voice, so they've got her saying like, hello, hi, and these different things.

00:28:06.000 It sort of sounds like she's mimicking. 1.00

00:28:08.000 What if she started saying a bunch of racial shit? 1.00

00:28:10.000 Racial slurs? 1.00

00:28:12.000 Well then, let's get her! 1.00

00:28:15.000 Canada banned capture of dolphins and whales.

00:28:17.000 Yesterday, yeah.

00:28:17.000 Yeah, but the capture is already illegal in the United States, right?

00:28:22.000 Well, you have to go through the...

00:28:24.000 But you can get them from Canada, and Canada gets them from being captured.

00:28:27.000 Canada can get them from anywhere.

00:28:29.000 So basically, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans...

00:28:32.000 Very strategically talked about this sweeping overhaul of their thing, whatever it is.

00:28:41.000 The word's eluding me.

00:28:43.000 They did this, I believe, to mitigate.

00:28:46.000 Justin Trudeau went off about the Kinder Morgan pipeline.

00:28:50.000 What's that?

00:28:51.000 It's a big pipeline that they're going to You know, run this oil in BC and there's a lot of protests.

00:28:56.000 He ran on the campaign that he wouldn't do this.

00:28:58.000 Justin Trudeau talks about saving the world all the time and cleaning up the environment.

00:29:02.000 So they've made this announcement.

00:29:03.000 Now that's a good piece of legislation.

00:29:05.000 It doesn't ban the breeding.

00:29:07.000 It doesn't address a lot of the things that we're actually addressing with Bill S203, which is the one that I spoke to two years ago, that Marineland has managed to get this guy.

00:29:15.000 This senator to keep playing, again, acting the fool, doing all these creative ways to kill this bill.

00:29:20.000 And that's where we're at now. 0.96

00:29:21.000 I mean, I expect sometime next week to get an announcement.

00:29:23.000 This bill should have been passed and brought into the House a long time ago.

00:29:27.000 And, you know, not the case.

00:29:29.000 Still stalled and everything.

00:29:30.000 And again, it's all lobbying.

00:29:31.000 Illegal lobbying, which may or may not Turned into some problems for Senator Don Platt.

00:29:38.000 Correct me if I'm wrong, but for a while, some of the parks in the United States would get them from some of the parks in Canada, which would get them from Russians and Chinese who would capture them in the wild. 1.00

00:29:49.000 So the parks in the United States would say that they don't capture whales.

00:29:53.000 So what they would do is Marineland would capture a boatload of wild ones, and then once...

00:29:58.000 They would do it personally?

00:30:00.000 Well, they would pay some Russians to capture the whales. 0.60

00:30:03.000 Is it Russians that they always use? 1.00

00:30:04.000 Goddamn Russians. 1.00

00:30:06.000 They're cheating at the Olympics. 1.00

00:30:07.000 They're stealing whales.

00:30:08.000 So they bring the whales in wild.

00:30:10.000 Those whales have, for instance, they sire a calf.

00:30:14.000 That calf is now deemed captive-born, and now it can be shipped to the States.

00:30:19.000 And so what Marineland was doing was just breeding like crazy and then sending them to SeaWorld.

00:30:24.000 I mean, that's how we got the killer whale to begin with, how we got Ikaika. 1.00

00:30:27.000 It was a big trade with belugas. 1.00

00:30:30.000 And so that's what we're trying to put an end to because all these loopholes, you know, Marine Land really capitalized on this, but they went a long time lobbying the government for years.

00:30:36.000 I mean, they've been around for 50 plus years.

00:30:38.000 They've done all the right moves a businessman would do if he wants to keep a thriving business without too many hands sort of keeping him from doing anything.

00:30:47.000 It's just so disturbing that we're willing to just accept this because we don't know what they're saying.

00:30:52.000 You know, we know that they have a really complex language.

00:30:56.000 We can't decipher it, though, because it's so alien in terms of, like, the sounds that they make.

00:31:01.000 It's not something you put into a box, but it's not like any other animal.

00:31:04.000 Between dolphins and killer whales, and whales.

00:31:07.000 In general.

00:31:08.000 They make sounds with a range of complexity that's just unrivaled in nature outside of humans.

00:31:14.000 And their auditory system is so complex.

00:31:15.000 When you put them in a concrete pool, just imagine what...

00:31:18.000 I mean, I put my ears under the water and it's loud.

00:31:21.000 The filters are going.

00:31:22.000 You've got different sounds.

00:31:23.000 Water being pushed in from this pipe and that pipe.

00:31:26.000 People screaming.

00:31:27.000 Music.

00:31:28.000 Louder, louder, louder.

00:31:29.000 Shooting popcorn in the audience.

00:31:30.000 Yeah, burgers. 1.00

00:31:31.000 Bad fucking... 1.00

00:31:33.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:31:33.000 Goddamn. 1.00

00:31:34.000 I mean, I look at them almost like they're kind of... 0.99

00:31:37.000 I mean, they're definitely not human, but they're kind of people.

00:31:41.000 They're like a water people.

00:31:42.000 It's weird.

00:31:44.000 If you put yourself in the mindset of looking at an animal and try to change your perception of them a little bit rather than sort of disassociating, and you look at them, you can actually see that they're like, oh, it's like they're people, man.

00:31:55.000 That's just a different meat suit.

00:31:57.000 And when you deal with killer whales and stuff, Well, they evolved in a different environment, but they evolved to be incredibly social, highly dynamic populations.

00:32:08.000 They live in these very intimate groups.

00:32:11.000 They stay together for life.

00:32:13.000 A male killer whale will never leave its mother's side over its lifetime.

00:32:17.000 It'll stay within about a body's length, its entire life.

00:32:21.000 Unless the pod starts beating on it, then it'll just stay on the outside of the pod for a while. 0.99

00:32:24.000 At least they have that luxury of escape, whereas in captivity, males get the shit kicked out of them. 1.00

00:32:28.000 They're big puppy dogs. 0.99

00:32:29.000 Big male orcas. 0.98

00:32:30.000 I mean, yeah, okay, they're murderous and they're killing people, but they're actually big puppy dogs. 0.96

00:32:35.000 I've always felt so bad for Candy.

00:32:37.000 We had this big male, beautiful big bull male.

00:32:40.000 He was just, he was rocked.

00:32:43.000 His existence having been pulled from his mother, and this really largely explains why Tilikum went off.

00:32:47.000 You ruin their lives.

00:32:49.000 That's over.

00:32:50.000 I mean, their whole...

00:32:51.000 The reason they live...

00:32:53.000 And they remember, too.

00:32:54.000 They remember their mother. 1.00

00:32:56.000 Fuck, man. 1.00

00:32:56.000 It's just, why do we allow this? 1.00

00:32:59.000 It seems to me like...

00:33:01.000 Like, almost a form of slavery.

00:33:03.000 I mean, I don't want to diminish the horrors of human slavery, because in human slavery, at least there's no question whatsoever that that's a human.

00:33:12.000 And there's communication.

00:33:13.000 Yeah, so it's as awful as it gets. 0.99

00:33:15.000 But goddamn, put the ignorance aside, the slavery of killer whales is like really close. 0.99

00:33:22.000 It's really close. 1.00

00:33:23.000 The only way to get them to work...

00:33:26.000 Effectively and efficiently is to keep them hungry.

00:33:29.000 Drug them and keep them hungry.

00:33:32.000 Oh, man.

00:33:32.000 Yeah, it's brutal, man.

00:33:33.000 How is it still legal?

00:33:35.000 I mean, isn't SeaWorld...

00:33:36.000 Aren't they expanding?

00:33:38.000 Didn't they just make a bigger pool for the killer whales? 0.98

00:33:41.000 Like, well, we're so nice to our killer whales, we gave them a bigger cage.

00:33:45.000 Yeah, so what they've done is they've tried to repackage the show as...

00:33:48.000 We're not doing the big dynamic show, but they really still are.

00:33:50.000 They're like, we're just showing natural behaviors, which is... 0.97

00:33:52.000 Bitch, we want natural behavior. 1.00

00:33:54.000 Let them go fuck up a whale. 1.00

00:33:56.000 Yeah, no shit. 1.00

00:33:56.000 They put a backdrop of a couple trees and some shit. 1.00

00:33:59.000 Like, all right, new show. 1.00

00:34:00.000 Hey, SeaWorld, there's a lot of crazy shit going on. 0.98

00:34:02.000 I mean, in California, SeaWorld promised to stop banning. 0.99

00:34:07.000 Rather, they promised to stop breeding the killer whales.

00:34:11.000 Right. 0.99

00:34:11.000 But these fucking promises, do not believe for a moment that they're like some type of responsible corporate citizens that's going to hold on to this thing. 0.99

00:34:18.000 It's bullshit. 1.00

00:34:19.000 They're an entity. 1.00

00:34:19.000 Entity, a business entity. 1.00

00:34:21.000 They're trying to make money.

00:34:21.000 And so what California did was they went out and banned it.

00:34:24.000 So in California, you can't breed orcas, import-export issues, all that.

00:34:29.000 But in Florida, so again, SeaWorld makes the promise, they had an Orca Protection Act that they were looking to do exactly like California.

00:34:35.000 They were going to make it concrete, pass the law, that way SeaWorld can't just backpedal on it down the road, which everyone suspects they will.

00:34:43.000 SeaWorld is lobbying like fucking crazy and just last week successfully defeated the bill again.

00:34:49.000 They're putting a lot of effort- SeaWorld is trying to defeat a bill that- No, they successfully defeated. 0.98

00:34:53.000 Multiple times, including just last week.

00:34:55.000 That allows them, or the bill would keep them from breeding these animals in captivity.

00:35:00.000 So they're fighting against that.

00:35:01.000 Yeah.

00:35:02.000 Successfully fighting.

00:35:03.000 It's over.

00:35:03.000 They're doing it in Florida.

00:35:04.000 Yeah.

00:35:05.000 While they're pretending in California they don't want to breed them.

00:35:08.000 Well, no.

00:35:08.000 In California, they actually passed the law.

00:35:10.000 The state itself passed the law.

00:35:11.000 In Florida, it was defeated repeatedly, and now one last time. 1.00

00:35:15.000 Fuck, man. 1.00

00:35:15.000 So they're trying. 1.00

00:35:16.000 They're trying to breed animals in captivity, and if they do breed them in Florida, they'll be able to ship them to California.

00:35:21.000 To China.

00:35:22.000 So that's where the demand is right now.

00:35:24.000 And in fact, SeaWorld was just bought by a large Chinese corporation.

00:35:28.000 They just named one of the guys to the SeaWorld board.

00:35:32.000 And so what people...

00:35:34.000 I mean, it's safe to assume that this is exactly what's happening, is SeaWorld is planning their exit strategy, and they're going to start sending their orcas to China.

00:35:42.000 Oh, Jesus Christ.

00:35:43.000 Where that's a booming industry right now, in fact.

00:35:45.000 Killer Well Captivity is like...

00:35:47.000 And it's all coming out of Russia, right? 0.88

00:35:50.000 Still, but...

00:35:51.000 And so they're still capturing them in the wild.

00:35:54.000 Yep.

00:35:55.000 In China, it's a burgeoning, booming industry.

00:36:01.000 Man, 44 ocean theme parks in China right now.

00:36:04.000 Jesus Christ.

00:36:05.000 They're building up like crazy.

00:36:06.000 How many of them are in the United States?

00:36:09.000 How many aquariums?

00:36:10.000 I don't know.

00:36:11.000 I can't say for sure.

00:36:14.000 I was actually surprised to read there's like 300-something dolphins in captivity in the States.

00:36:18.000 I think that was the number I saw.

00:36:19.000 I didn't realize it was that big.

00:36:20.000 I had no idea that there was that many in captivity in the States.

00:36:23.000 It just seems to be such an archaic thing.

00:36:27.000 I can't imagine that the United States wants to keep doing that.

00:36:30.000 The fact that SeaWorld is trying to keep doing that in Florida and that they've successfully lobbied to allow them to keep breeding these animals in captivity.

00:36:37.000 But you can't...

00:36:39.000 Once you have them in captivity for a long time, say if SeaWorld wanted to release them, they can't really release them.

00:36:44.000 There's nowhere to release them, and that's what's being worked on now.

00:36:46.000 There's a project called the Whale Sanctuary Project, and I suspect there'll be a fairly large announcement soon.

00:36:51.000 I believe they'll be looking at a location in...

00:36:54.000 In Canada.

00:36:55.000 And they're going to build this thing.

00:36:56.000 There will be a place for them.

00:36:57.000 Which is a great place to do it because...

00:36:59.000 So how would they do that?

00:37:00.000 Well, you go coastal, of course.

00:37:01.000 I mean, you've got to be in the ocean.

00:37:02.000 You've got to pen off an area.

00:37:03.000 I mean, there's lots of things to consider.

00:37:05.000 You've got to make sure there's a lot of water changes.

00:37:07.000 A lot of different things because you can't keep the animal in something that's going to stagnate.

00:37:10.000 Keep them in it.

00:37:11.000 So it's going to be some sort of a cage?

00:37:13.000 Yeah.

00:37:14.000 Assume a fence of sorts around.

00:37:16.000 Maybe like a fjord.

00:37:17.000 It wouldn't be a fjord if it's in Canada.

00:37:18.000 But they can jump.

00:37:22.000 I imagine that they'll make certain that that's not going to be the case, but...

00:37:25.000 Well, they can.

00:37:26.000 I've seen dolphins jump out of the pool.

00:37:28.000 That's crazy.

00:37:29.000 Really?

00:37:29.000 Yeah, I got rushed in one morning to...

00:37:32.000 I called in because a dolphin jumped out of the pool. 0.99

00:37:36.000 Holy shit. 0.99

00:37:37.000 I mean, that's a wake-up call when you get there and you see this thing flopping around and you're like, Jesus Christ. 0.99

00:37:41.000 What do you do?

00:37:42.000 Well, you get the sling together.

00:37:43.000 First off, we have these different slings and things that move these dolphins.

00:37:47.000 So I was alone.

00:37:48.000 How much does a dolphin weigh?

00:37:49.000 Yeah, like 500 pounds, 600 pounds in this case.

00:37:51.000 She was a decent-sized female. 1.00

00:37:52.000 So I went and grabbed a kid out in a ticket booth or some shit because it was too early in the morning. 0.92

00:37:56.000 I had no staff there. 0.92

00:37:57.000 Rush him in.

00:37:58.000 I'm like, dude, I got two guys.

00:38:00.000 I'm like, we got to get this dolphin in.

00:38:01.000 These guys, I mean, if you've never done that before, your jaw's on the floor. 0.86

00:38:04.000 I fucking had these two steel poles on my shoulders, dolphin in the sling, lifting her up. 1.00

00:38:09.000 I swear to you, man, my back went backwards like this. 0.98

00:38:12.000 It was the heaviest thing I'd ever carried, but we got her back in.

00:38:14.000 It was crazy.

00:38:16.000 But yeah, jumped out of the pool.

00:38:17.000 It was crazy.

00:38:18.000 In fact, there was a time in the summer, I remember, where one of our dolphins was teetering on the edge.

00:38:22.000 What she would do is, you know, they're always spy hopping like this, looking over the edge at the crowd.

00:38:25.000 Explain that to people that are just listening.

00:38:27.000 So imagine there's like a short wall, something that, you know, they can look over.

00:38:31.000 So they're sort of spy hopping.

00:38:32.000 They're spying up to look.

00:38:33.000 Okay.

00:38:34.000 One of our dolphins learned that she can actually jump up on the ledge and balance.

00:38:38.000 Now, that's like an eight-foot drop to the concrete on the other side of this pool.

00:38:41.000 She's up there posing.

00:38:42.000 I'm hearing the crowd.

00:38:43.000 I'm backstage.

00:38:44.000 I hear the crowd going crazy.

00:38:45.000 I'm like, what is this?

00:38:46.000 I go out there.

00:38:46.000 She's having fun doing this.

00:38:47.000 Holy shit. 0.99

00:38:48.000 That's the dolphin that jumped out. 0.99

00:38:49.000 So what we did was I said, we got to take her out of this pool.

00:38:52.000 We took her out, put her in the back pool where no one would see her, of course. 0.95

00:38:55.000 And that's the next day she actually jumped.

00:38:56.000 So she'd be dead today if we hadn't moved her. 0.88

00:38:59.000 Then, of course, all Marieland did was put up more obstruction things to keep him in the pool.

00:39:04.000 Now, when you find her outside of the pool, how long had she been outside for?

00:39:07.000 She was still wet, so it wasn't so bad.

00:39:09.000 But one dolphin, we found her that she got stuck on the stage overnight.

00:39:14.000 And when we got there, her skin had become so dry that it was starting to crack. 0.99

00:39:19.000 It was kind of fucked up. 0.94

00:39:20.000 She actually has this permanent scar from... 0.99

00:39:23.000 Having dried up, yeah, and a chunk come out.

00:39:26.000 I don't know what, she was probably thrashing around. 0.99

00:39:28.000 Are you talking to her when you find her?

00:39:30.000 Do you try to comfort her?

00:39:31.000 I mean, yeah, sure.

00:39:33.000 Hugging her and everything else.

00:39:34.000 Let's go.

00:39:35.000 Does she calm down when she realizes people are trying to help her?

00:39:39.000 Like, are they aware of what's going on?

00:39:40.000 Or is she in a panic?

00:39:41.000 They always fight.

00:39:42.000 They always fight.

00:39:43.000 I mean, this particular dolphin was a fighter.

00:39:45.000 Every time we ever tried to put her in a sling and move her... 1.00

00:39:47.000 I mean, one time...

00:39:48.000 I can go back in memories and I can remember my thoughts during these times.

00:39:53.000 And we had her in a sling hovering over the pool. 1.00

00:39:56.000 And the way the sling is, is you've got two holes in the sling where the pecs go in, right?

00:40:00.000 The pectoral fins. 0.99

00:40:01.000 And then one where the genital slit is, so if they shit, it doesn't wind up stuck in the sling. 0.99

00:40:05.000 But... 0.99

00:40:06.000 And then you've got a crane atop.

00:40:07.000 So now you've got this thing lifted over the pool.

00:40:09.000 Well, she's fighting like crazy, and we can see that there's a tear in the sling.

00:40:13.000 As she's fighting, fighting, fighting, we get her, the crane just gets her over the pool, the sling rips, she's plunked into the pool. 1.00

00:40:19.000 Holy shit, man. 0.97

00:40:20.000 And we've slinged out like 15,000 pound or 10,000 pound killer whales over like 30, 40 feet in the air. 1.00

00:40:28.000 Imagine one of those fucking drops. 0.99

00:40:29.000 Oh my god. 1.00

00:40:30.000 So that was sort of a wake-up call.

00:40:32.000 Wow.

00:40:33.000 Archaic procedures, man.

00:40:35.000 Moving these things, especially at a place like Marineland.

00:40:39.000 Marineland, when you step through the doors, and hopefully you don't, but if you do, it's like you've gone back to the 70s.

00:40:43.000 Has any of this hurt their business?

00:40:48.000 Attendance is abysmal over there.

00:40:50.000 They're crushed.

00:40:51.000 I watch the sun set over Marineland from my front yard.

00:40:54.000 It's a beautiful sight.

00:40:55.000 I drive by, of course, just about every day.

00:40:58.000 Their attendance is rocked.

00:41:00.000 And Niagara Falls, which is where Marineland is, is booming.

00:41:05.000 The tourism is through the roof.

00:41:06.000 It's shoulder to shoulder over there.

00:41:08.000 And Marineland is seeing none of it.

00:41:09.000 And you think it's because people know about the conditions there?

00:41:11.000 Oh, absolutely.

00:41:12.000 I've got a lot of support in the local community.

00:41:14.000 People know exactly what's going on.

00:41:16.000 Tourists, it's a little more difficult.

00:41:18.000 And Niagara Falls welcomes millions of them.

00:41:20.000 So you're going to get a fraction of that.

00:41:21.000 But it is a fraction.

00:41:22.000 Marineland is not benefiting from the booming tourism.

00:41:24.000 They're on their way out.

00:41:26.000 They're on a clock, for sure.

00:41:28.000 For sure.

00:41:28.000 I'd be shocked to hear them opening in 2019. I'm not going to make that prediction, but I would be shocked.

00:41:34.000 It's that bad.

00:41:35.000 But to be fair, there's no investors at Marine Land.

00:41:37.000 It's one sole controlling mine owner who started with nothing.

00:41:40.000 He started with $2,000, built this thing.

00:41:42.000 He is indebted to nobody. 1.00

00:41:44.000 He's cash rich, of course, and he's got a lot of fuck you money and not a lot of time, so he's out to fuck shit up. 0.99

00:41:49.000 I wouldn't be surprised to... 0.99

00:41:50.000 Not a lot of time in life, you mean.

00:41:51.000 He's like 84 years old now.

00:41:53.000 Yeah.

00:41:53.000 And so...

00:41:55.000 I wouldn't be surprised to think that he's rationalized in his mind to just fucking sewer this thing, like destroy all our lives for having spoken out, but just tank the park in the process. 1.00

00:42:07.000 Fuck it. 1.00

00:42:07.000 Wow. 1.00

00:42:08.000 Yeah.

00:42:08.000 He's very defiant.

00:42:09.000 He's a very paranoid and defiant man.

00:42:12.000 And so, you know, at 84 years old, what else does he have left to accomplish, I guess?

00:42:16.000 So you were saying they had 50 beluga whales?

00:42:19.000 50 plus, maybe even 60 at this point.

00:42:20.000 Beluga whales are huge.

00:42:22.000 Yeah.

00:42:23.000 What does a big one weigh?

00:42:26.000 I don't know if we've ever actually weighed our big males.

00:42:29.000 If you had a guess.

00:42:30.000 Like 4,000 pounds, maybe five.

00:42:32.000 You got 50 of those?

00:42:33.000 50 of them, yeah.

00:42:34.000 That's insane!

00:42:35.000 Try catching one.

00:42:36.000 Oh, I don't want to try.

00:42:37.000 I used to get tasked with, here's your scuba gear, here's a net the size of a football field, go catch that beluga whale.

00:42:45.000 So me and my buddies would be like, okay, here we go.

00:42:47.000 It really would be amazing to be able to capture the things we've done on video.

00:42:53.000 Can you recognize the difference in intelligence between killer whales, dolphins, beluga whales?

00:42:58.000 Absolutely, yeah.

00:42:59.000 Dolphins and killer whales are remarkably similar.

00:43:01.000 Just cunning smart.

00:43:03.000 You turn your back and they're pickpocketing you. 0.96

00:43:05.000 And they're brats, and I love brats. 0.98

00:43:07.000 They just are bratty animals. 1.00

00:43:08.000 They're having fun. 1.00

00:43:09.000 Well, they're fucking with you. 1.00

00:43:11.000 They like to make things difficult. 0.99

00:43:12.000 If they know how to frustrate you, they're going to exercise that.

00:43:15.000 So it's always a mental game.

00:43:16.000 Especially when you're dealing with animals, training with animals.

00:43:19.000 Beluga whales are really timid.

00:43:21.000 They call them the canaries of the sea because they're kind of skittish.

00:43:24.000 So I don't know if that's a reflection of their intelligence necessarily.

00:43:26.000 But I would call them maybe a hint more dum-dum than the next one. 1.00

00:43:32.000 But they're more scared shitless of you than not.

00:43:35.000 You know, belugas. 1.00

00:43:36.000 They don't really want it.

00:43:36.000 But they're not as smart as dolphins.

00:43:38.000 I wouldn't say so.

00:43:39.000 But they're intelligent in some way.

00:43:42.000 In some way intelligent. 0.65

00:43:43.000 They're sort of sitting ducks out there, belugas. 1.00

00:43:46.000 I just mean like in the whale world.

00:43:50.000 Do whales respond to verbal commands?

00:43:54.000 Yeah, so in the case of pinnipeds, absolutely.

00:43:58.000 What's a pinniped?

00:43:59.000 Yeah, walruses, seals, sea lions.

00:44:02.000 They respond to verbal commands.

00:44:03.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:44:06.000 Whales, we...

00:44:07.000 I couldn't say for sure in my experience that that was the case.

00:44:11.000 However, in the case of just that announcement last week of that animal mimicking the human sounds, it means she hears them.

00:44:18.000 So if the animal can hear you, you can definitely create a cue of sorts to trigger a behavior.

00:44:24.000 So it's possible that they could know some of our language.

00:44:29.000 I don't know that they could recognize some commands.

00:44:32.000 Yeah, I wonder.

00:44:34.000 We know that they have dialects, but we don't know anything that they're saying, right?

00:44:39.000 No.

00:44:40.000 And that's what's interesting.

00:44:42.000 I mean, I sort of beat myself up wondering if, in fact, they're using a language that is to be interpreted as words...

00:44:52.000 Sentences versus sounds that mean things.

00:44:56.000 I guess maybe that's the same thing.

00:44:58.000 But I know what you're saying.

00:44:59.000 It's not something that's necessarily decipherable.

00:45:01.000 You know when a dog's pissed because they growl.

00:45:03.000 A growl is different than a bark.

00:45:06.000 But barks aren't necessarily words. 0.99

00:45:07.000 And if they are, maybe they're fuck you. 0.99

00:45:08.000 I don't know. 1.00

00:45:09.000 I was listening to this thing about monkeys.

00:45:11.000 I think it was Steven Pinker's book.

00:45:14.000 Where they were talking about, it was an audiobook, they were talking about how monkeys have differentiated the sound that they make if there is a tiger versus the sound they make if there's an eagle.

00:45:27.000 Anytime I'm walking around and I hear a squirrel in a tree making a certain sound, I know there's a cat in the vicinity.

00:45:32.000 It's probably one of mine.

00:45:33.000 But they have a language, like a very crude language, but what they've done is taken the sound of an eagle, and they play it near monkeys, and the monkeys look up.

00:45:41.000 Of course, yeah.

00:45:41.000 And they play the sound of a monkey trying to alert the fact that there's a tiger in the area, and the monkeys run up trees.

00:45:48.000 Yeah, and start looking down.

00:45:49.000 Yeah, it's really interesting because like they have a few sounds that they can repeat and they know for a fact that these Monkeys know what they're talking about and monkeys even play jokes. 0.92

00:45:58.000 That's a language on each other They play jokes on each other like if one monkey wanted a banana He would say hey man is a fucking eagle here and the monkey would run up the tree and he would get the banana Like they would they lie to each other It's pretty fascinating makes doing fucked up things to them that much worse, 0.94

00:46:14.000 right? 0.99

00:46:15.000 You mean monkeys I mean, we know that they're intelligent, but they got a little tiny, little tiny brain, little tiny ass head, little tiny brain, you know, but... 0.98

00:46:24.000 That's all they need. 0.98

00:46:25.000 Orca's brain, they're giant.

00:46:27.000 These are huge, enormous brains.

00:46:30.000 Dolphin's brains are...

00:46:30.000 Dolphin brains are way bigger than ours.

00:46:32.000 You want to hear a fucked up story? 1.00

00:46:33.000 Sure. 1.00

00:46:33.000 I think you do. 1.00

00:46:34.000 I had to dig up a dead killer whale to extract a portion of its brain that we missed during a necropsy.

00:46:39.000 You had to dig it up?

00:46:40.000 Yeah.

00:46:41.000 In the ground?

00:46:42.000 Yeah.

00:46:42.000 It was in the ground?

00:46:43.000 He had been buried for like 10 days, too.

00:46:45.000 Whoa.

00:46:45.000 Oh, dude.

00:46:47.000 How'd he die?

00:46:49.000 I can't remember how Kandu died exactly, but he died pretty young.

00:46:54.000 I can't remember exactly what the final...

00:46:56.000 We never got that information as trainers.

00:46:59.000 You sort of were always told, oh, it's always meningitis.

00:47:04.000 Oh, he died of meningitis.

00:47:06.000 Or they would say, oh, twisted intestine or something.

00:47:08.000 They always came up with things that you just...

00:47:10.000 It kept you asking questions rather than feeling like anything was ever conclusive in that regard. 0.97

00:47:14.000 But in this particular case, the vet had pulled me aside and said, Okay, I gotta ask you something fucked up. 0.95

00:47:21.000 Can you go get two people? 0.94

00:47:23.000 Suit them up.

00:47:23.000 We gotta go get a piece of the brain we missed out of Kandu.

00:47:26.000 I'm just like, ugh.

00:47:27.000 I can't possibly impose upon someone to do that.

00:47:31.000 I can't.

00:47:32.000 How deep had it been buried?

00:47:34.000 Like, it was about six to eight feet.

00:47:36.000 He was...

00:47:37.000 And you can just do that in the yard?

00:47:39.000 They allow you to just bury it in the yard?

00:47:41.000 Marineland has mass graves in the back.

00:47:44.000 In the exact place that they're claiming development now, which I've got some overhead shots.

00:47:49.000 They've actually been paving roads pretty close to it.

00:47:52.000 To where the bodies are buried.

00:47:54.000 And how many different things do you think are buried back there?

00:47:57.000 Thousands.

00:47:57.000 What?

00:47:58.000 Thousands.

00:47:58.000 I mean, just in deer alone, forget about it.

00:48:00.000 I mean, Marineland breeds more deer.

00:48:02.000 Why do they breed deer?

00:48:03.000 He's got a whole park of animals, different animals.

00:48:06.000 That's where the animal cruelty charges stem from, was actually not marine mammals, because there's no laws protecting them.

00:48:12.000 So, you know, they continue to live in a void of protection, but the deers, the bears...

00:48:17.000 There's no laws in Canada?

00:48:18.000 In Canada, yeah.

00:48:20.000 Yet.

00:48:20.000 It's coming, man.

00:48:21.000 I know I've been talking about this for five years. 0.99

00:48:23.000 We're almost there, but I'm up against the fucking wall. 0.97

00:48:25.000 How long ago did you first come on here? 0.98

00:48:27.000 2013 was my first time here.

00:48:30.000 Yeah, so that would have been four years ago.

00:48:32.000 So they have thousands of graves in the back?

00:48:35.000 Thousands of animals in large graves.

00:48:37.000 So there's a big hole, for instance.

00:48:38.000 There's a big hole for the deer.

00:48:40.000 They're all going in there.

00:48:41.000 The big deer, the bear, the bison.

00:48:42.000 Why don't they just eat them? 0.67

00:48:44.000 He used to.

00:48:44.000 Back in Christmas, back in the day, when the owner used to host Christmas parties, he'd go back and slaughter a bison and then feed burgers and make food out of it and stuff.

00:48:52.000 They used to do that.

00:48:53.000 They don't do it no more.

00:48:54.000 They actually used to be called Marineland something and game farm.

00:48:58.000 And by being a farm or classified as a farm, he was actually able to kill and produce food.

00:49:04.000 So that's something I've been told that happened.

00:49:06.000 Now, why do they kill deer back there?

00:49:09.000 They're just going to throw them into a hole. 0.97

00:49:12.000 Well, I mean, a lot of them die because they're gross.

00:49:14.000 First off, when you've got 500 deer in a pen that's disgusting, they're not all going to get to eat.

00:49:21.000 Some of them are going to get injured.

00:49:23.000 These things happen.

00:49:23.000 So, at night, what would happen is...

00:49:27.000 Someone, let's say, would drive around in his truck, you know, put the gun out the window and just go on these shooting sprees, wiping out these animals.

00:49:35.000 In the morning, the land animal care guys would show up and they'd be like, okay, go pick up the bodies of these poor kids.

00:49:40.000 So would he do it for a goof?

00:49:42.000 Or would he do it because he's trying to thin the population because there's too many of them?

00:49:45.000 Oh, no, there wouldn't be anything like that.

00:49:46.000 Well, in one case, once the investigation came out in 2012, which revealed, of course, abuse with land animals as well, They went on a calling spree if you will where they got rid of some of the uglier sort of less healthy animals It's funny because Marineland actually breeds the more beautiful deer off-site.

00:50:04.000 The more beautiful animals that they have are not on display.

00:50:08.000 They're actually back there breeding out of display.

00:50:10.000 That's where the two dogs...

00:50:11.000 I don't know if you recall when the owner shot those two labs.

00:50:14.000 Beautiful little Labrador dogs went running up and down the fence across from Marineland's owner's house, which is where the off-site pen is, where he breeds the animals.

00:50:23.000 And that's where he decided...

00:50:25.000 I'm not calling anyone to come get these animals. 1.00

00:50:28.000 Fuck, dude, this story is so heartbreaking. 1.00

00:50:29.000 He just pulls out a shotgun, kills one. 1.00

00:50:32.000 The other one cowers, because there was a witness.

00:50:35.000 Of course, the witness never identified themselves.

00:50:38.000 They didn't want to be sued.

00:50:39.000 And then he shoots the other one. 0.91

00:50:41.000 And then he tells a land animal care supervisor, he says, take the collars off the dogs, go bury them in the pit. 0.90

00:50:47.000 It was...

00:50:47.000 I was there that day.

00:50:48.000 I heard the gunshots.

00:50:49.000 I was there when the vet got the phone call.

00:50:51.000 She's like, oh my god, okay.

00:50:53.000 She hangs up.

00:50:53.000 She looks at me.

00:50:53.000 She goes, John just killed two dogs.

00:50:55.000 I'm like, what the fuck, man? 1.00

00:50:57.000 Dogs that you can go, hey... 1.00

00:51:00.000 Go back home.

00:51:01.000 Puppies, dude.

00:51:02.000 They were beautiful dogs.

00:51:03.000 There was a video that's since been taken down on the Toronto Star website.

00:51:05.000 A lot of the videos are gone.

00:51:06.000 A lot of things are happening now on account of these lawsuits and further down the road that we've gone where things are starting to disappear.

00:51:12.000 There was a very powerful historical website about Marineland and some of the owners' history.

00:51:18.000 And, you know, these things are gone now.

00:51:20.000 They're gone.

00:51:20.000 I mean, I can't allege as to why or what agreements or if there are agreements.

00:51:24.000 I can't go down that road to suggest.

00:51:26.000 I don't know.

00:51:27.000 But a lot of these resources that were very powerful are gone and disappearing now.

00:51:32.000 So Marineland has this giant yard, right?

00:51:36.000 How many acres are you talking about where there's thousands of animals buried?

00:51:41.000 I mean, the park is massive.

00:51:44.000 There's probably three times undeveloped land versus what's developed there, and it's a big park.

00:51:49.000 It's sort of barren.

00:51:50.000 There's not a lot of things.

00:51:51.000 There's rides, and you've got to walk a mile between them.

00:51:53.000 But nonetheless, The owner, what he liked to do was sort of acquire a lot of land over his lifetime.

00:51:59.000 That was his thing.

00:52:00.000 He owns half of Niagara Falls.

00:52:01.000 I gotta watch where the hell I step because at any given point, if I'm on their land, I'm getting charged with trespassing, whether I like it or not. 0.98

00:52:07.000 In fact, the city of Niagara Falls leased land to Marineland to keep protesters off of their site, which is absolute bullshit. 0.93

00:52:15.000 And if anyone's listening from city council, I hope you do. 0.99

00:52:17.000 You gotta fix that because that's some horse shit right there, man. 0.98

00:52:19.000 You guys have been... 0.99

00:52:21.000 Pandering to marine land for too long. 0.98

00:52:22.000 I mean, to keep us from being able to protest, that's horseshit. 0.88

00:52:25.000 Sorry. 0.86

00:52:25.000 Why do you think that is? 0.86

00:52:26.000 Because they just don't want to get sued?

00:52:29.000 There was a time when Marineland and owner were called like the king of Niagara.

00:52:33.000 That was it.

00:52:33.000 Marineland was atop the hill.

00:52:35.000 The falls came second to Marineland.

00:52:37.000 At least Marineland played this idea that people came to Niagara Falls, they would see the falls, they'd look at them for 10 minutes, and then they would have no reason to stay.

00:52:45.000 They were saying they're bringing all this business because people are now going to hotels, going to restaurants, and then going to Marineland the next day.

00:52:52.000 And when did this change? 0.99

00:52:54.000 When did Marineland go to shit? 0.99

00:52:55.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:52:56.000 2012. So right when you left.

00:52:59.000 So before then, it was this thriving thing and just nobody knew about the conditions?

00:53:05.000 That's what it was? 0.72

00:53:05.000 People were ignorant, of course. 0.72

00:53:06.000 People wouldn't have known. 0.99

00:53:07.000 Who's going to talk?

00:53:08.000 It's not new for Marineland's owner or Marineland, the corporation, to sue people for speaking out.

00:53:12.000 They did it before.

00:53:13.000 And successfully, not in the sense that there was any judgment, but successfully in that the people that spoke had to pay a horrible price and, you know, essentially got silenced.

00:53:23.000 So no one wants to speak out against that.

00:53:24.000 No, I don't blame them.

00:53:26.000 I get it.

00:53:26.000 I mean, I'm eating it now.

00:53:27.000 It's been five years. 0.99

00:53:28.000 Five years of every day waking up wondering if this is the fucking one where you're done, you know? 0.98

00:53:31.000 So you've been embroiled in these lawsuits for five years now. 0.99

00:53:35.000 Five years.

00:53:35.000 They sued me on Valentine's Day of 2013, yeah.

00:53:41.000 And nothing's been resolved.

00:53:43.000 The only way that there could be a resolve at this point is if I were to sign a document, and I'm assuming at this point, because Marieland sent nothing in terms of any type of agreement, but down the road, their objective is to shut me up.

00:53:57.000 They want to wipe out the last 20 years of my life.

00:53:59.000 They don't want me to open my mouth about anything, of course, in the last five years, and then the 12 prior, when I sort of revealed everything that was going on.

00:54:05.000 They're trying to shut me up.

00:54:06.000 They want an injunction, a permanent injunction.

00:54:08.000 I assume they would.

00:54:10.000 To keep me from being able to go to the park.

00:54:12.000 Well, this becomes very conflicting for me because they have my walrus sort of hostage there.

00:54:16.000 And I do dream of a day of being reunited with her.

00:54:19.000 And I imagine that would have to take place on Marineland property someday.

00:54:22.000 So it's really, I'm not prepared to sign anything.

00:54:25.000 In fact, I told my lawyer just last week, it's a non-starter and I'll remind Marineland now.

00:54:31.000 Non-starter.

00:54:32.000 They'll never shut me up.

00:54:33.000 I'm not signing it. 0.99

00:54:34.000 I'll have to eat shit forever, but I'm not going to sign it. 0.81

00:54:37.000 So where do you anticipate this all going? 0.99

00:54:38.000 I mean, you've been in a prolonged legal battle for five years now.

00:54:43.000 Where do you anticipate this going?

00:54:45.000 And so in April, so the last time I was here two years ago, I solicited some help, resources to be able to pursue marine lands owner in that I want him to be examined in court, much like I have.

00:54:55.000 In the same capacity that I had to forfeit all of my communications, I want the same for the corporation, and I want to examine Marineland's owner as representative.

00:55:02.000 This proved very difficult.

00:55:04.000 It took...

00:55:04.000 I mean, we got the order only just last April to examine him.

00:55:08.000 We won the order.

00:55:12.000 And since then, we've tried multiple times to schedule.

00:55:15.000 Now, we're almost at a year now of trying to schedule this man to come in for examinations, and he's not shown up a couple times now.

00:55:23.000 And so, at some point, if Marineland doesn't want the facts out there, and that's what I'm pursuing, I want the facts out there, they're going to have to settle.

00:55:35.000 And so, how that ends with me, I don't know.

00:55:38.000 I'm not looking for money. 0.98

00:55:39.000 I could give a shit about trying to get rich in this thing. 0.93

00:55:41.000 Are you trying to sue them for money, though? 0.99

00:55:43.000 I'm suing them, yeah, but it's- How much?

00:55:44.000 Well, numbers don't matter, but it's like a million and a half or something. 0.94

00:55:48.000 They defame the shit out of me, let's be honest. 0.94

00:55:50.000 It's pretty absurd. 0.98

00:55:51.000 But again...

00:55:52.000 So would the million and a half be- I'll never get it.

00:55:55.000 I'll never see it.

00:55:56.000 But would it be predicated on you would have to shut your mouth?

00:56:00.000 If it wasn't something that went, if it wasn't a judgment that the judge made, for instance, if we went to trial, the judge makes their decision then.

00:56:07.000 If we settle beforehand, it's because everyone wants to wash their hands and walk away.

00:56:11.000 Marine Land's not going to wash their hands of me unless, I feel, unless I've got them properly cornered.

00:56:17.000 The only way they want to get me is, well, of course they want to ruin me, right?

00:56:20.000 How could you properly corner them?

00:56:22.000 What would be...

00:56:23.000 Well, if Marineland's owners missed a couple examinations now, how many until I can go in and actually file a motion to have the entire statement of claim dismissed?

00:56:31.000 Well, the fact is, pretty soon.

00:56:34.000 So my objective is to go and get this lawsuit thrown out, at which point I've got the counterclaim for them to work with.

00:56:40.000 They're not suing me no more.

00:56:41.000 Now who's got the upper hand?

00:56:42.000 That's my dream, of course.

00:56:43.000 That's your dream.

00:56:43.000 But if...

00:56:45.000 If that doesn't happen, I mean, it seems like five years is a long time to be in a prolonged legal battle.

00:56:51.000 At what point in time does it become so absurd that the court throws it out?

00:56:55.000 So it just happened now.

00:56:57.000 It's actually a new rule that as of February 2018, any lawsuit that hasn't been scheduled for trial was administratively dismissed.

00:57:07.000 It's a new law. 0.94

00:57:10.000 That doesn't affect mine, unfortunately, because we actually fought to get a case management judge on my case because, like I said, Greenland's acting the fool. 0.88

00:57:19.000 I can't seem to get in front of a judge. 0.63

00:57:20.000 Everything's joking around.

00:57:21.000 So we went and won that.

00:57:23.000 Again, it took a long time.

00:57:24.000 You know, the crazy thing about these lawsuits, and I see now, of course, in 2012 I was a lot more naive, but all of the wins that I get in court cost me.

00:57:32.000 So, for instance, I defend a motion against Marineland.

00:57:35.000 It costs me $7,500.

00:57:38.000 The judge says, okay, Phil wins this round.

00:57:42.000 Let's give him some money back on a partial indemnity.

00:57:44.000 He gets $3,500 back.

00:57:46.000 Still just costs me $4,000.

00:57:48.000 Marineland's owner misses an examination, as an example.

00:57:50.000 I've got to get what's called a certificate of non-attendance.

00:57:52.000 I've got to send a lawyer.

00:57:54.000 $1,200.

00:57:56.000 So, it's...

00:57:57.000 And how is all this funded now?

00:57:59.000 Oh, I have a public GoFundMe, of course.

00:58:01.000 I've had several... 0.99

00:58:02.000 And how do people, if they want to donate, because I'm sure a lot of people listening to this are like, fuck this, man. 0.99

00:58:06.000 I've got to help this guy. 0.97

00:58:07.000 SaveSmooshy.com.

00:58:08.000 I've got my documentary on there, which I'd like to touch on a little bit.

00:58:10.000 It's great.

00:58:11.000 Have you had a chance to look at it, watch it?

00:58:12.000 No.

00:58:12.000 Okay, well, if you manage to.

00:58:14.000 It's pretty...

00:58:15.000 It's good.

00:58:15.000 These kids from Ryerson University did it.

00:58:17.000 The Brave Kids.

00:58:18.000 And how I know it's a very effective documentary is that...

00:58:23.000 Marineland didn't sue them.

00:58:24.000 They know the danger of this documentary.

00:58:27.000 They know how powerful it is, and they didn't sue them.

00:58:29.000 And that's how I know that this is powerful.

00:58:31.000 So they decided that it's so good they have to leave it alone and just ignore it because if they sue them, then it'll put attention to it.

00:58:38.000 Exactly.

00:58:38.000 And so they made a small statement saying, oh, this is Phil just doing what Phil does.

00:58:42.000 And it's funny because the Ryerson students turn around to me, they go, but that's not true.

00:58:45.000 Like, we came to you.

00:58:46.000 They actually wanted to do a five-minute personal profile of me.

00:58:50.000 They said, look, we want to just do a quick interview with him.

00:58:52.000 I'm like, sure.

00:58:54.000 That morning, I don't know, they caught me on the right day.

00:58:55.000 I just, you know, we spoke for hours and then they sort of got back and said, you know, we want to do like maybe something more with this.

00:59:01.000 I'm like, you guys do whatever the hell you want.

00:59:03.000 I mean, I'm an open book.

00:59:05.000 I give everything away.

00:59:06.000 You want something?

00:59:07.000 Here, go. 0.99

00:59:08.000 Go nuts with it. 0.97

00:59:08.000 And so they did. 0.97

00:59:09.000 And they did something great.

00:59:10.000 It's really good.

00:59:13.000 Yeah, so definitely please check that out.

00:59:16.000 Dude, every time I talk to you, I'm happy to talk to you.

00:59:18.000 You're a great guy. 0.88

00:59:19.000 I always get fucking hugely depressed. 0.66

00:59:23.000 I'm always just like, what? 1.00

00:59:24.000 Fuck! 1.00

00:59:25.000 And now the Valium? 1.00

00:59:28.000 Dude, if I had to get into my own personal well-being, I mean, you get compromised when things like this happen.

00:59:34.000 You do.

00:59:34.000 You just do.

00:59:35.000 I imagine.

00:59:36.000 It's a half a decade of stress.

00:59:38.000 That's a big portion of mine.

00:59:39.000 I'm turning 40 in a month.

00:59:40.000 So from 35 to 40, it's all been stress and lawsuits.

00:59:44.000 Every day.

00:59:45.000 And not just that.

00:59:46.000 They're sending goons to my house.

00:59:47.000 I mean, they sent the police to my house.

00:59:49.000 I mean, it really is relentless.

00:59:51.000 It's absurd, the things they do.

00:59:53.000 There was a comedian.

00:59:54.000 I don't want to mention his name because he deleted the tweet and he told me, oh, Twitter deleted it. 0.99

00:59:59.000 This is bullshit. 0.73

00:59:59.000 I don't want to give him any attention, but PETA had tweeted something. 0.73

01:00:03.000 And so he quoted that tweet and said, it's time to burn this place.

01:00:06.000 It's a comedian.

01:00:07.000 Very funny.

01:00:08.000 I click retweet.

01:00:10.000 I got the police cyber crimes unit on my front door the next day because the lawyer sent them because I... Inciting violence?

01:00:18.000 I incited violence for the followers, so now Marine Line was worried that the buildings were going to be burnt down.

01:00:25.000 Well, I would never say to do that.

01:00:28.000 Me neither. 1.00

01:00:29.000 Fuck, man. 1.00

01:00:30.000 Or I would never tell anyone to fly a drone over it either. 1.00

01:00:33.000 Opportunity for million-view YouTube hits.

01:00:35.000 Yeah, don't do it.

01:00:36.000 Don't do that.

01:00:39.000 Man, it's just...

01:00:41.000 You know that they're on the wrong side of history, and not just Marineland, but all these places.

01:00:48.000 All these places.

01:00:49.000 There's going to come a time in the future where people look back at this kind of captivity of these hyper-intelligent social animals stolen from their families.

01:00:59.000 It's a terrible, terrible...

01:01:05.000 Statement about human beings.

01:01:07.000 The thing I love about, I guess what you would call my campaign is that I have support from hunters.

01:01:14.000 I have support from vegans.

01:01:16.000 I am across the spectrum.

01:01:17.000 At one point I had a far right, well, a person who's perceived as a far right internet personality tweet my documentary and then Rosie O'Donnell tweets it and she's as left as it gets.

01:01:28.000 And so I'm looking at this.

01:01:29.000 Rosie O'Donnell, yeah, yeah.

01:01:31.000 Wow.

01:01:31.000 Oh, dude, I got a Rosie story.

01:01:32.000 It's kind of a heartbreaker actually, but...

01:01:35.000 When I went to New York, and again, Joe, thank you so much.

01:01:37.000 When you spoil me with those UFC tickets, dude, it's always the most timely thing and so appreciated because it's just like this trip.

01:01:46.000 It's exactly what I need at the time to sort of keep myself sane.

01:01:50.000 Need a little break and have some fun.

01:01:51.000 And so I was going to New York City.

01:01:53.000 I remember I sent you a message.

01:01:54.000 I'm like, dude, and you're like, bro, enjoy.

01:01:55.000 I'm like, ugh.

01:01:57.000 And so Rosie sees the documentary.

01:02:01.000 And someone says to me, hey, Rosie just tweeted your documentary.

01:02:03.000 I'm like, oh, cool. 0.99

01:02:04.000 So I go to her Twitter, and yeah, sure as shit. 0.99

01:02:06.000 So I follow her. 0.99

01:02:07.000 She follows me back.

01:02:08.000 She's just sending me messages like, dude, it's really powerful.

01:02:11.000 And then she goes to elaborate, like, I want to know more about you.

01:02:14.000 I want to call you tomorrow.

01:02:15.000 I'm like, okay, cool. 0.99

01:02:16.000 Sure as shit, the next day the phone rings. 0.99

01:02:18.000 I'm talking to Rosie. 0.99

01:02:18.000 I'm like, this is crazy. 0.99

01:02:20.000 Again, I'm 40. I know who Rosie is.

01:02:21.000 I don't know these days if kids know who Rosie is.

01:02:23.000 Anyway, Rosie O'Donnell is like, I don't know, she was a heavy in my day at least.

01:02:25.000 She's like, you know, powerhouse.

01:02:27.000 And she's expressing all this interest.

01:02:29.000 Like, you know, I've done documentaries.

01:02:31.000 I've released them on HBO. You know, I've done all these things.

01:02:34.000 I'm going to L.A. tomorrow, and I'm going to call you back on Friday, but I'm meeting with this Emmy Award Producing producer and we're gonna get this thing out there and then she starts to say and this is where my heart starts to ache is that you know you always sort of hope that there's gonna be a hero that I mean especially in the last five years it's gonna be like you know what enough's enough let's let's do this and especially in the case of with my walrus she starts saying I think we can get the walrus like we can get some pressure get a TV network pressure so let's get that walrus I'm just like dude you're pulling on my fucking heartstrings now I you know and

01:03:05.000 then I went to New York. 0.91

01:03:08.000 I'd hoped to have lunch with Rosie on that particular trip.

01:03:11.000 I was going for two reasons, actually.

01:03:13.000 Also was hoping to do some ayahuasca.

01:03:15.000 I'm looking to get a reset.

01:03:16.000 I need some...

01:03:18.000 I'm going to do that sooner than later.

01:03:20.000 But that was the intention of going to New York.

01:03:22.000 And since then, it's just been radio silence from Rosie, unfortunately.

01:03:27.000 And I accept that in that...

01:03:29.000 She has a complicated world and whatnot. 1.00

01:03:31.000 But man, she pulled on my heartstrings.

01:03:33.000 She might have wanted to do it and couldn't. 0.50

01:03:35.000 Yeah, and I'm not going to fault her.

01:03:37.000 I see how crazy sort of her life and sort of things that go on.

01:03:39.000 And I'm totally...

01:03:42.000 She's had a lot of family issues and all sorts of other stuff too, but yeah, that's a bummer.

01:03:46.000 It's just a bummer is what it is.

01:03:47.000 I think also people get involved with you and hear the stories and then they get scared of being sued themselves.

01:03:53.000 All the time.

01:03:54.000 Yeah, you should see it.

01:03:55.000 I mean, I just, even last week I contacted someone that, I mean, the media now, and mind you, it's a very different landscape now from 2012. 2012 media was against me.

01:04:03.000 Corporate media was in, Greenland had them in their back pocket.

01:04:06.000 That was before Blackfish.

01:04:08.000 2013, 2014, 2015. Media's mine.

01:04:11.000 2016, 17, 18. Now the media's just...

01:04:13.000 Who knows what the fuck they're doing, man? 0.99

01:04:15.000 Like, it's all over the map. 0.99

01:04:16.000 So, it's hard to get any sort of...

01:04:19.000 And, again, Marineland will sue them.

01:04:22.000 So...

01:04:22.000 It's also an issue of after things have been going on for so long and nothing's happened, people start going, well, what can I do?

01:04:29.000 You know, a lot of people actually think Marine Land's done.

01:04:31.000 They're just like, oh, dude, congrats, Marine Land's dead, right?

01:04:32.000 I'm like, no, man, it's still happening.

01:04:34.000 It's still being sued.

01:04:35.000 It's all happening.

01:04:35.000 It's just less current on account that it's five years, but that's exactly their...

01:04:39.000 That's what they're doing.

01:04:40.000 That's their objective.

01:04:41.000 Well, I think also...

01:04:41.000 Marine Land fatigue.

01:04:42.000 People are tired of fucking hearing about it. 0.99

01:04:44.000 I'm tired of tweeting it, you know? 0.99

01:04:45.000 Well, I think also the 11 different counts of animal abuse, you know, they probably fought like, oh, this is it.

01:04:51.000 I know I thought that that was it.

01:04:53.000 And then they turn around and sue the OSPCA, which, I mean...

01:04:57.000 Man, it's all dark, man. 0.97

01:04:59.000 It's really dark.

01:05:00.000 And the fact that there's so many people involved helping...

01:05:03.000 It feels dark.

01:05:04.000 You know, it feels like a total violation of my life.

01:05:08.000 Like...

01:05:09.000 Whatever, I'm up for it.

01:05:11.000 I'm here to fight, but it feels gross. 0.98

01:05:14.000 You're at every turn being fucked up, and all you can do, all I can do, and a lot of times I'm not allowed to even speak of it. 0.98

01:05:21.000 I mean, I may have even compromised things in this... 0.99

01:05:23.000 I mean, I always compromise things when I speak, but that's what choices I have left.

01:05:28.000 How have you compromised things here today by...

01:05:30.000 Telling true stories. 0.99

01:05:31.000 I'll find out tomorrow or Monday when I get a whole deluge of fucking legal threats. 0.99

01:05:37.000 I've been threatened with more lawsuits. 0.98

01:05:39.000 Marineland's lawyers have in fact threatened Other whistleblowers, lawyers.

01:05:46.000 So they're ready to sue lawyers.

01:05:48.000 I mean, you want to talk about gumming up a system, it's over at that point. 0.95

01:05:51.000 If a lawyer sues another lawyer, you're looking at 15, 20 fucking years.

01:05:54.000 Wasn't there changes in the laws in Canada, like how you can sue people? 0.86

01:05:58.000 There was anti-slap legislation that was enacted years ago.

01:06:01.000 I spoke at Queen's Park about it.

01:06:03.000 This was something that you were hopeful about.

01:06:05.000 Yes, of course.

01:06:05.000 Of course.

01:06:06.000 And SLAP stands for? 0.75

01:06:07.000 Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation.

01:06:10.000 So I speak out against what's happening at Marineland. 0.91

01:06:12.000 Marineland, the cash rich corporation, sues the shit out of me. 0.95

01:06:15.000 In a strategic way to try to silence you. 0.99

01:06:17.000 Right.

01:06:18.000 And so Ontario passed legislation to make that illegal.

01:06:23.000 However, at the time...

01:06:26.000 Ontario's premier was suing the leader of the opposition.

01:06:29.000 She took out the retro clause, so it was no longer retroactive to any lawsuits that are already in the system.

01:06:36.000 So now I'm actually fighting against a lawsuit that is illegal, and if it were to be applied to my lawsuit, had it been, Marine Light would be up against some punitive damages like crazy, just by fault of launching a malicious lawsuit.

01:06:47.000 But because it's not retro, I sit back and I just continue to eat it.

01:06:51.000 And then other people are actually...

01:06:52.000 I see it in the paper once in a while.

01:06:53.000 It's like, oh, this corporation tried to sue this girl.

01:06:55.000 They owe her half a million dollars for...

01:06:57.000 Well, maybe not half a million, but they owe her some money for having lost the suit.

01:07:00.000 And I'm just like, oh, dude.

01:07:03.000 My dreams. 0.99

01:07:04.000 Goddamn, man. 1.00

01:07:06.000 I feel for you. 1.00

01:07:07.000 I don't, man.

01:07:08.000 You know what?

01:07:08.000 To be fair, it's also...

01:07:10.000 I call it a sort of curse and blessing.

01:07:13.000 I mean, look, I'm here, man.

01:07:14.000 In what world would I be here?

01:07:15.000 I started out as a fan of the show. 0.99

01:07:16.000 I started listening to you saying things like, be the hero of your fucking movie or whatever that quote was. 0.99

01:07:22.000 And I did. 0.99

01:07:23.000 And so I get the idea. 1.00

01:07:25.000 I eat shit, but shit starts to taste delicious when you see the damage you're doing as well. 1.00

01:07:32.000 What are you doing for money now? 1.00

01:07:34.000 So I started a summer business some years ago.

01:07:36.000 I've got an Airbnb, which was the best idea I'd ever had.

01:07:41.000 I'm so happy and blessed with this thing because...

01:07:44.000 People come down and I host them now.

01:07:46.000 It's the thing I like to do the most.

01:07:47.000 I got a beautiful home on the water.

01:07:49.000 It's like, you know, I got a nice dock.

01:07:50.000 Converted one of the apartments into an Airbnb in honor of my cat that we spoke of, in fact, two years ago, Eugene.

01:07:56.000 So it's called The Eugene.

01:07:58.000 And so, you know, that's a means to sort of help me.

01:08:03.000 Occasionally, I work for Canada Post as a mailman, which I sort of love in that It challenges me every day. 0.98

01:08:12.000 I wake up in minus 20 degrees wind howling blowing snow like crazy I gotta go spend like six to eight hours walking in this shit. 0.99

01:08:20.000 It sucks, but That's a challenge, and you've got to wake up and rise to it, right? 0.99

01:08:26.000 I mean, you could just as well stay in bed all day, but that's not going to help me. 0.98

01:08:29.000 Yeah, that's a weird thing about mail delivery.

01:08:31.000 In a lot of places, it's still walking around.

01:08:33.000 Oh, I do it.

01:08:34.000 It's brutal, but I love it.

01:08:35.000 I'm walking 20k a day.

01:08:36.000 Dude, I lost a lot of weight.

01:08:37.000 I'm feeling good.

01:08:38.000 It helps me.

01:08:39.000 It really does.

01:08:39.000 I need my body moving.

01:08:41.000 I know one speed.

01:08:42.000 Fast.

01:08:43.000 You know, I'm 40. I'm slowing a little bit, but not that much, surprisingly.

01:08:47.000 Hopefully my run lasts for a while, but...

01:08:50.000 It helps me. 0.98

01:08:51.000 The voice in my head goes from, dude, everything's abysmal and fucked, to, dude, you got this, man. 0.99

01:08:57.000 Stick with it. 0.99

01:08:57.000 You got this. 0.99

01:08:58.000 You know, you listen to music, you're getting powerful, you're feeling good.

01:09:01.000 It's just right for me.

01:09:02.000 It really is.

01:09:03.000 In a perfect world, where would you like all this to end?

01:09:05.000 I want the walrus.

01:09:07.000 Sounds crazy.

01:09:08.000 My dream is I'm going to free whales.

01:09:10.000 There's going to be a sanctuary.

01:09:11.000 I'm going to free marine lands whales.

01:09:12.000 I'm going to have a hand in this.

01:09:13.000 That's going to happen.

01:09:14.000 You really think that's going to happen?

01:09:16.000 You think they're going to enact legislation that makes them release those animals?

01:09:22.000 I think so, yes.

01:09:23.000 Really?

01:09:23.000 Yes.

01:09:23.000 What makes you so hopeful?

01:09:24.000 Well, S203, Marineland's tried to kill this bill for years now.

01:09:29.000 They've not been able to. 0.99

01:09:29.000 And this time next week, this sucker should go. 0.99

01:09:33.000 That whale sanctuary project, they're going to build a whale sanctuary. 0.98

01:09:36.000 There's going to be a place for whales.

01:09:38.000 If it's in Canada and all the exportation laws are that Marineland can't get rid of their whales, there will only be one place for whales if that business elects to evolve or if there's any type of ownership changes.

01:09:49.000 I see this being a real reality.

01:09:50.000 Explain to me how this sanctuary would work.

01:09:52.000 Well, you'd have an environment where it's penned off in the ocean, and there'd be various different pens for various different procedures, if you will.

01:10:02.000 But the idea is that if they can't be wholly released, Then you've got a place where they have a sense, a semblance of freedom, if you will.

01:10:11.000 But it'll be in human care.

01:10:13.000 There'll be more of like, for instance, a viewing platform where people will be able to view the whales versus...

01:10:18.000 How big of an area are we talking about?

01:10:19.000 Massive, yeah.

01:10:20.000 I can't say the square footage.

01:10:21.000 I don't know because nothing's finalized yet.

01:10:23.000 We're still under development.

01:10:25.000 Would they develop a bay or something?

01:10:27.000 You would want to ideally get a bay that has good water change over, that works if you can find that.

01:10:32.000 I mean, the East Coast is looking really good these days.

01:10:35.000 Is there a model that they've drawn up?

01:10:39.000 Not quite.

01:10:40.000 Oh, there's models.

01:10:41.000 Yeah, no, absolutely.

01:10:42.000 Can we look at something like this online?

01:10:43.000 If you look up the Whale Sanctuary Project, I'm sure you'll find tons of different things.

01:10:46.000 I just don't know how they're keeping the orcas in those things.

01:10:49.000 If you put a fence up, they're not going to go anywhere.

01:10:51.000 They wouldn't jump the fence?

01:10:53.000 There's something about jumping out.

01:10:55.000 I mean, when the wild captures happen...

01:10:58.000 What do we got here?

01:11:00.000 There's the whale sanctuary.

01:11:01.000 We're building a model sanctuary where captive whales and dolphins can be rehabilitated and live permanently in their natural environment.

01:11:08.000 So it's a step.

01:11:09.000 So this is a step between this and then the wild.

01:11:13.000 Yes.

01:11:14.000 Now, are they going to free them and then release fish in there for them to eat?

01:11:18.000 I imagine there'll be all of them.

01:11:20.000 So that would be nice, too, to allow them to actually hunt and kill the fish, which I'm sure that's what they want to do.

01:11:25.000 The fact that they can feel the natural rhythms of the sea.

01:11:28.000 I mean, they're in tune with the sea.

01:11:29.000 They're in their environment.

01:11:30.000 A pool's no place for them. 0.81

01:11:31.000 Look at what it says here.

01:11:35.000 Four years, median survival time in years for wild-caught orcas at a marine park.

01:11:42.000 Four years.

01:11:43.000 1,100 square yards of space in a large display tank in a typical high-end marine tank.

01:11:50.000 314,600 is the minimum number of square yards for the first whale sanctuary project, Seaside Sanctuary.

01:11:58.000 So this is...

01:12:02.000 314,600 square yards.

01:12:04.000 So it would be a massive place.

01:12:07.000 105 is the number of captive orcas and belugas in North America.

01:12:12.000 So that includes Marineland?

01:12:13.000 So Marineland has half the belugas in North America? 1.00

01:12:16.000 It's crazy.

01:12:17.000 It's crazy.

01:12:18.000 And they fly under the radar because no one wants to talk about them, right?

01:12:21.000 24-7, round-the-clock care for the whales at the sanctuary.

01:12:25.000 That sounds beautiful.

01:12:27.000 Marineland's threatened to sue a lot of these people. 0.99

01:12:29.000 Somebody fucking... 0.99

01:12:31.000 I am, dude. 0.99

01:12:32.000 Me, not somebody.

01:12:34.000 We need more than just you, it seems like. 1.00

01:12:37.000 Fuck, man. 1.00

01:12:38.000 People listening, please. 1.00

01:12:39.000 Get involved.

01:12:40.000 This is a great step, though.

01:12:43.000 I love this idea of this step.

01:12:46.000 You know, like, have something that's like a bridge between captive and the wild.

01:12:51.000 Also, it would allow their atrophied dorsal fins to reinvigorate. 0.89

01:12:56.000 They could start diving deep again.

01:12:58.000 I mean, I don't know how deep necessarily, but...

01:13:00.000 Well, at least a little bit and get...

01:13:01.000 You could train these animals to physically take them for walks, if you will.

01:13:05.000 I guess you'd call them swims, where you would be able to leave and have them just follow a boat and go for some exercise.

01:13:08.000 You could totally...

01:13:09.000 I mean, the things that this is going to present, the opportunities for these animals is brilliant and amazing.

01:13:15.000 And the board is comprised of all your wild animal brilliant scientists.

01:13:19.000 I mean, this is the project.

01:13:21.000 This is the future.

01:13:22.000 So that is the way to do it, right?

01:13:24.000 Because I've always said when you go to a place like SeaWorld or whatever, and you look at all those Dolphins and killer whales, how would you get them free?

01:13:32.000 There would have to be some intermediary step.

01:13:35.000 There it is.

01:13:38.000 Wow.

01:13:38.000 That's exciting times, man.

01:13:40.000 I hope they do that, man.

01:13:42.000 It's coming.

01:13:42.000 I hope they do that.

01:13:42.000 Because I feel like if there was a place where you could go and people could feed the killer whales, like release some fish or something like that and be there to watch, that would be way more exciting than watching them in a swimming pool.

01:13:54.000 You watch a fucking killer whale fart in the wild versus do a backflip in the captivity and you're watching that fart in awe and this thing is just music and bullshit. 0.99

01:14:01.000 I pulled over yesterday morning. 1.00

01:14:03.000 I was in Malibu real early in the morning, and I pulled over and watched some dolphins.

01:14:08.000 Aw, dude!

01:14:09.000 It was awesome.

01:14:10.000 I was told, I was speaking with someone, they're like, dude, they're here, they're in Malibu, go see them.

01:14:14.000 Yeah, they're here right now.

01:14:14.000 I was on the PCH, and I was driving, and in the corner of my eye I saw something in the water, and then I saw the tail, the fins going over it, and a few of them together.

01:14:25.000 And I pulled over and I'm like, fuck, man, that's amazing. 0.90

01:14:28.000 Like, I don't want to live in Malibu because I'm scared of tsunamis. 0.99

01:14:30.000 But if you were there, like right there, like looking out your fucking bedroom window and checking that out first thing in the morning, dolphins in your yard. 0.97

01:14:40.000 Yeah, and they're just wild, man, having a good old time. 0.98

01:14:43.000 They just feel different.

01:14:44.000 You know, you see them in marine land, or I've never seen them in marine land, but you see them in any sort of captive area, and you just get this weird feeling like, yeah, they're cool to look at, but man.

01:14:54.000 They're just not, they're just not, you know there's something missing there.

01:14:58.000 Yeah, it's like the difference between seeing a cow in a pen versus a buffalo in the wild.

01:15:03.000 This is where hunters, I say they're really, this is where I get a lot of support from hunters because no hunters, I mean, all you got to do is grab a pigeon.

01:15:10.000 Just go on the corner of the street, grab a pigeon if you can grab it, put it in a cage and watch how depressed you are in a half hour watching it.

01:15:15.000 I mean, it's horrible.

01:15:16.000 So even, that's what I love about it. 1.00

01:15:18.000 The hunters are just like, no man, you got this thing right, like fuck it. 0.99

01:15:21.000 Well, people have this erroneous idea that hunters hate animals. 1.00

01:15:24.000 No, I'm not on that.

01:15:25.000 Because they kill them.

01:15:25.000 They love wild animals.

01:15:27.000 They love things to be wild, you know?

01:15:29.000 It's just a very depressing aspect of human nature that we've chosen to go down this route and that we did it a long time ago.

01:15:38.000 I really, truly believe that if there was no dolphin and orca captivity ever, previously, before, it would not be possible to do today.

01:15:45.000 Impossible.

01:15:46.000 People would freak out.

01:15:47.000 At least in America and Canada. 0.95

01:15:49.000 Kids are repulsive. 0.58

01:15:50.000 I mean, this is where... 0.98

01:15:52.000 And they should be.

01:15:52.000 I go speak to schools and every kid...

01:15:55.000 And the beautiful thing, and I mean, it sounds horrible, but the kids that go to Marine Land get singled out pretty bad by the other kids.

01:16:00.000 So it's not a good time to bring your kids to a place like Marine Land unless you have your kids picked up.

01:16:05.000 Well, what about China?

01:16:06.000 How is it so cool in China?

01:16:08.000 They just don't get it over there?

01:16:10.000 They just don't know?

01:16:10.000 They have a different culture?

01:16:12.000 Yeah, it's fairly new.

01:16:12.000 For sure cultural, yeah.

01:16:14.000 I mean, I don't know.

01:16:15.000 I just know that that's...

01:16:17.000 That'll be there for a while yet.

01:16:19.000 The paradigm shift hasn't taken there yet.

01:16:22.000 It'll be a while.

01:16:25.000 So, savesmooshy.com for anybody who wants to go, and that's where your GoFundMe is.

01:16:32.000 That's where they can watch the documentary.

01:16:34.000 Documentary, please do, yeah.

01:16:35.000 And listen, man, I hope in some way this helps you.

01:16:39.000 Always does.

01:16:40.000 I'm super appreciative, Joe.

01:16:41.000 I hope in some way it gets people to donate and to pay attention and to be aware.

01:16:46.000 And please, folks, watch Blackfish.

01:16:48.000 Just go watch that. 0.98

01:16:51.000 If it doesn't make you crack up, if it doesn't make you cry, if it doesn't make you really sad that people are capable of doing that, it's just wrong.

01:17:00.000 It's not what we should be doing as a species, as a race, as a civilization.

01:17:08.000 It's just the wrong thing to do.

01:17:10.000 And one day it will be looked upon very, very poorly.

01:17:15.000 The timing of people putting their eyes on me now has never been better.

01:17:18.000 Things are going to happen.

01:17:19.000 Follow me on Twitter.

01:17:20.000 I'm going to be tweeting a lot of major developments in the coming months.

01:17:23.000 The timing of this particular podcast couldn't have been better.

01:17:26.000 And again, I'm super indebted to you forever.

01:17:28.000 I'm so appreciative.

01:17:30.000 I'm appreciative of you too, my brother.

01:17:31.000 Thanks, man.

01:17:31.000 Thank you.

01:17:32.000 All right, folks.

01:17:33.000 We'll be back next week.

01:17:34.000 Enjoy your life.

01:17:35.000 Bye.

The Joe Rogan Experience - February 09, 2018

Joe Rogan Experience #1076 - Phil Demers

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Summary

Transcript