The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1162 - Valentine Thomas

00:00:04.000 Three, two, one.

00:00:07.000 Boom.

00:00:08.000 You gotta appreciate a person who shows up with not just food, but booze.

00:00:13.000 You showed up, you brought whiskey and fish.

00:00:17.000 That's very impressive.

00:00:19.000 That's why, it's exactly what my mommy taught me.

00:00:21.000 Your mother taught you to bring food and booze everywhere? 1.00

00:00:23.000 Exactly.

00:00:25.000 Well, you got a good mom. 0.51

00:00:26.000 So your name is, you would introduce yourself as Valentine, but your mom calls you Valentin?

00:00:36.000 Well, when I introduce myself to English-speaking people, I say I'm Valentine, but then when I speak to somebody that speaks French, I say Valentin.

00:00:46.000 Valentin.

00:00:46.000 Oh, okay.

00:00:47.000 Because you're from Montreal.

00:00:49.000 Yes, exactly.

00:00:50.000 Okay.

00:00:51.000 So I found out about you online and I've read your story and it's a very interesting story because you were a lawyer, right?

00:01:00.000 Yes, I used to be a lawyer.

00:01:02.000 I did my law degree in Montreal and then I did my master in law before moving to London.

00:01:08.000 And now you are a spearfisher.

00:01:12.000 Yes, full time.

00:01:13.000 That's kind of crazy.

00:01:14.000 That's an interesting transition.

00:01:17.000 I'm fascinated by spearfishing.

00:01:19.000 It seems like a lot of fun.

00:01:20.000 It seems very exciting and dangerous and risky.

00:01:24.000 But how did you go from being a lawyer?

00:01:28.000 And that's a big jump.

00:01:29.000 I mean, you had to pay for an education.

00:01:32.000 Well, in Canada, do you have to pay for that?

00:01:33.000 How does that work?

00:01:34.000 It's kind of cheap compared to the U.S., definitely.

00:01:37.000 It's about something maybe like $3,000, $4,000 a year.

00:01:41.000 So compared to the U.S., it's almost free, I guess.

00:01:44.000 Oh, that's not bad.

00:01:45.000 $3,000, $4,000 a year?

00:01:46.000 But still, that's $3,000, $4,000 a year for many years that you decided, yeah, I'd just rather...

00:01:52.000 My mom definitely didn't get a good return on investment on that one. 1.00

00:01:56.000 Now, how do they feel about you doing this?

00:02:00.000 She still sends me university applications time to time, being like, hey, why don't you study something different or something?

00:02:08.000 And I'm like, no, I'm not having a midlife crisis.

00:02:12.000 I just don't like what I was doing, so I just picked something else.

00:02:15.000 Oh, by the way, I'm going to have to apologize for my English.

00:02:18.000 Seems perfect.

00:02:19.000 I'm from Montreal, so French is my first language or something.

00:02:21.000 Well, listen, you're way better than George St. Pierre.

00:02:23.000 He was here a couple weeks ago.

00:02:25.000 And George is more hard to understand, and he was fine.

00:02:28.000 Yeah, I'm not going to speak like this, and I'm going to try to make an effort.

00:02:33.000 Well, listen, I'm impressed with anybody who can speak more than one language.

00:02:36.000 I was just in Thailand.

00:02:37.000 It's just amazing that they speak English so perfectly.

00:02:40.000 And then their language is so oddly different than ours.

00:02:45.000 You decided when to do this.

00:02:48.000 How deep into your law career were you?

00:02:51.000 It was about...

00:02:52.000 I actually made a career switch when I moved to London in 2010. So I started working in finance, so I worked for hedge funds, and I basically decided on quitting law.

00:03:02.000 I didn't like the part of law where I was stuck in one place.

00:03:06.000 So, you know, when you study law, let's say in Canada, even in Canada, it's even worse because I was studying in Quebec, which is civil law, and then I was stuck in Quebec for the rest of my life.

00:03:16.000 And I just got like, oh, that's not going to happen.

00:03:19.000 So meaning that, okay, so like if you pass the bar in California, you would also have to pass the bar in New York if you wanted to work in New York?

00:03:26.000 Exactly.

00:03:27.000 So it's a long process.

00:03:29.000 That's different then.

00:03:29.000 Is that the same with, like, if you were a doctor, would that be the case?

00:03:33.000 Country-wise, I would say.

00:03:35.000 State-wise, I couldn't know.

00:03:37.000 But state-wise, it is for law.

00:03:39.000 Yes, it is.

00:03:40.000 So for you, you would have got stuck in Quebec.

00:03:43.000 Quebec is a very interesting place because it kind of doesn't want to be a part of Canada.

00:03:47.000 True.

00:03:48.000 We're very different in Canada, but my biggest problem with Quebec is definitely not a culture or anything like that.

00:03:53.000 It's the fact that it's an eight-month-long winter.

00:03:56.000 It's rough.

00:03:57.000 I'm not doing it.

00:03:58.000 But the people are amazing.

00:04:00.000 It is.

00:04:01.000 It's a very European city, actually, in Canada.

00:04:04.000 People are very about food, about sitting outside.

00:04:09.000 Yeah, shout out to my friends David and Fred from Joe Beef in Montreal, one of the best restaurants in the world.

00:04:14.000 You ever eat there?

00:04:15.000 Yes.

00:04:15.000 Woo!

00:04:16.000 That's amazing.

00:04:16.000 How good is that place?

00:04:17.000 Woo! 0.99

00:04:18.000 That's pretty good.

00:04:19.000 That's a jamming place.

00:04:21.000 So, I'm sorry.

00:04:21.000 So, you decided you didn't want to be stuck.

00:04:25.000 Yeah, pretty much.

00:04:26.000 I kind of got claustrophobic of being like, oh, this is going to be the next 40 years of my life.

00:04:31.000 How did you get into spearfishing?

00:04:34.000 Very weird story.

00:04:36.000 I got into spearfishing when I was living in London, which still doesn't make much sense.

00:04:43.000 And then I met this guy and he was like, oh, you have to try spearfishing.

00:04:48.000 He would be so good at it.

00:04:49.000 And he asked me to go do a course in Egypt, the freediving.

00:04:52.000 So I said, all right, I'm going to go.

00:04:55.000 Egypt?

00:04:55.000 Yeah, Egypt.

00:04:56.000 It's very big for freediving, Egypt.

00:04:58.000 Really?

00:04:58.000 The sea is like very clear and deep and the water is beautiful and it's calm very often.

00:05:03.000 You can swim from shore and you have very great depths.

00:05:06.000 So it's really nice for that.

00:05:08.000 So I did my course.

00:05:10.000 I went there literally kicking and screaming.

00:05:12.000 I didn't want to go.

00:05:13.000 When I was 14 years old, I almost drowned in the side of France with my parents.

00:05:18.000 I refused to swim in the ocean for about 10 years after that.

00:05:23.000 If I couldn't see the bottom, I was not even interested in going near the water.

00:05:28.000 And then I was like, all right, I'm going to try this thing.

00:05:31.000 And I go there and I'm like, okay, it's not too bad.

00:05:34.000 No, it's not that bad.

00:05:35.000 It's actually really cool.

00:05:37.000 So he said, okay, well, now that you know how to free dive, in three months, we're going to this very big spearfishing trip on Ascension Island.

00:05:44.000 Ascension Island is literally one of the biggest, most elite spearfishing destinations in the world.

00:05:50.000 You go hunt for big fish.

00:05:52.000 Where is it?

00:05:52.000 It's right in the middle of the Atlantic.

00:05:54.000 It's right between Brazil and Africa. 0.97

00:05:56.000 It's a military island divided between the U.S. and the U.K. Oh, wow.

00:06:01.000 I've never heard of it before.

00:06:02.000 Do people live on it?

00:06:03.000 Yes, they do.

00:06:04.000 They have locals that...

00:06:05.000 What language do they speak?

00:06:07.000 English.

00:06:08.000 Really?

00:06:08.000 Yeah.

00:06:09.000 It's a very, very odd place, but it's very pretty.

00:06:11.000 And it's one of the...

00:06:13.000 There it is.

00:06:13.000 Jamie nailed it.

00:06:14.000 Got it up there.

00:06:16.000 What's the Google Maps tell us?

00:06:17.000 How long does it take to get there?

00:06:18.000 They finish in the middle of nowhere.

00:06:20.000 That's crazy in the middle of nowhere.

00:06:22.000 Wow.

00:06:23.000 It's between Africa and Brazil. 1.00

00:06:24.000 That's fucking nuts. 0.98

00:06:25.000 And to get there, we had to go to the military base in the UK, which is like about an hour and a half away from London. 0.99

00:06:33.000 And we have to take a Royal Air Force flight there.

00:06:36.000 That's the only way to get there.

00:06:37.000 There's no commercial flights.

00:06:38.000 Really?

00:06:39.000 It's a stopover on the way from the military base in the UK to the Falklands.

00:06:43.000 So how does a civilian get a ride on a military flight?

00:06:47.000 They allow about five civilians per flight.

00:06:51.000 Oh, wow.

00:06:52.000 So how do you book it?

00:06:54.000 You do it through a travel agent or something?

00:06:56.000 I didn't do the booking myself, but I think it's through the airline or something.

00:07:02.000 Wow.

00:07:03.000 How odd.

00:07:03.000 It was a weird experience.

00:07:04.000 I was imagining when I was being strapped down and then facing the other side.

00:07:08.000 It's actually a commercial flight.

00:07:10.000 Oh, okay.

00:07:11.000 It's just bigger because it's meant for bigger guys.

00:07:13.000 Like the movie Predator?

00:07:14.000 No.

00:07:15.000 I wasn't really expecting that.

00:07:17.000 I thought the door was open in the back and I was like run out.

00:07:20.000 Because I have some friends that have done some gigs overseas and they have had to fly in those kind of planes.

00:07:26.000 That sounds pretty cool.

00:07:27.000 Yeah, I guess.

00:07:29.000 Until someone shoots at you.

00:07:32.000 Yeah, that would make it a bad day.

00:07:34.000 That would change things.

00:07:35.000 So when you were free diving before you went to this elite spearfishing destination, how long could you hold your breath?

00:07:42.000 When I started, there was zero, probably like 15-20 seconds.

00:07:48.000 So you were going there with 15-20 seconds worth of breath?

00:07:51.000 I was pretty bad.

00:07:52.000 I just did my deepest dive on my way there was something like 15 meters. 0.99

00:07:57.000 Oh shit, I'm Canadian. 0.99

00:07:58.000 Uh... 1.00

00:07:59.000 No, that's okay.

00:07:59.000 It's close enough to yard.

00:08:01.000 We understand what that is.

00:08:02.000 45 meters?

00:08:03.000 Yeah.

00:08:03.000 At 45 feet?

00:08:04.000 Yeah.

00:08:04.000 So it was something like that.

00:08:05.000 It wasn't that great.

00:08:06.000 And I actually remember my first time I went spearfishing, I was on a boat and the water was really bad.

00:08:12.000 It was rocky.

00:08:13.000 You know when the sea is like black, black because it's raining?

00:08:15.000 Uh-huh.

00:08:16.000 So I was in the back of the boat.

00:08:17.000 I was shaking. 0.99

00:08:18.000 I was holding my little gun and I was like, what the fuck am I doing here? 0.98

00:08:22.000 I'm like, well, I'm not watching TV right now. 0.96

00:08:25.000 Like, I don't want to be here.

00:08:26.000 I don't want to be here.

00:08:27.000 And then my friend was like, Come on, stop being a freaking pussy. 1.00

00:08:30.000 Just jump on the boat. 1.00

00:08:31.000 Just jump in the water and come.

00:08:34.000 I'm like, okay.

00:08:36.000 I take a deep breath.

00:08:37.000 I jump in.

00:08:38.000 And then the water that was so dark and so horrible and chopped just became super clear and there was fish everywhere.

00:08:44.000 And I was like, wow, this is actually pretty freaking cool.

00:08:47.000 And you're doing this, again, free diving, no tanks.

00:08:49.000 Free diving, no, no tanks.

00:08:50.000 So I take my first drops.

00:08:51.000 I'm a little bit clumsy because I have my gun and I'm like, I don't really know how to dive with that.

00:08:57.000 And then I took a shot on my first fish and I stoned it and my friend was like, oh yeah, that's great.

00:09:02.000 You stoned it, meaning you killed it. 0.99

00:09:03.000 I killed it on the first shot. 1.00

00:09:04.000 Yeah. 0.97

00:09:05.000 That's hunting terms too.

00:09:07.000 It's funny you said stoned it.

00:09:10.000 And yeah, and then my friend was like, well, you're not done, you know, you have to grab, like, the fish, you have to drag it all the way to the boat, and I was like, alright, I'll grab the fish, I have waves in my face, and then I get, it was kind of a big fish, it was a big, it was a good, um...

00:09:22.000 What kind of fish was it?

00:09:24.000 It was a blackjack, which is not that great to eat.

00:09:28.000 Blackjack? 0.67

00:09:28.000 Yeah, probably something that not many people would eat. 0.67

00:09:33.000 Why wouldn't they eat it?

00:09:35.000 It's edible.

00:09:36.000 It's not bad.

00:09:37.000 It's just not a very flaky fish, I would say.

00:09:41.000 It's a little tough.

00:09:42.000 That means it's a little tough.

00:09:43.000 Oh, so it's just too dense or something?

00:09:46.000 Yeah, kind of.

00:09:47.000 They're very strong fish, so...

00:09:49.000 Whoa, that's a cool-looking fish.

00:09:51.000 That's what it looks like?

00:09:52.000 Yeah.

00:09:54.000 Oh, okay.

00:09:55.000 It looks exactly like it.

00:09:55.000 It's a good first fish to Dale.

00:09:57.000 It was pretty big, too.

00:09:58.000 It was about like...

00:10:01.000 25 pounds.

00:10:02.000 Oh, wow.

00:10:02.000 Your Instagram is filled with this stuff, which is, I guess, one of the ways that I found you.

00:10:08.000 It's hard to remember how I find people online. 0.99

00:10:11.000 But your Instagram is filled with you with all these cool fucking fish and all these... 0.99

00:10:15.000 I mean, you look like you're living a life of adventure. 0.99

00:10:18.000 This is one of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you about...

00:10:20.000 Is that a lionfish you killed?

00:10:22.000 Yes, that's a lionfish.

00:10:23.000 Can you eat those?

00:10:23.000 They taste...

00:10:24.000 They're probably one of the best tasting fish ever that exists out there.

00:10:28.000 They're fantastic.

00:10:30.000 Do you ever get them on a...

00:10:31.000 Are they commercially available?

00:10:32.000 Or is it something you have to...

00:10:34.000 In Florida, yeah.

00:10:34.000 You can find them at Publix in Florida.

00:10:36.000 Oh, really?

00:10:37.000 Which is...

00:10:37.000 I was very surprised about...

00:10:39.000 You just have to be really careful when you harvest them, of course, because if you touch a spine, it hurts.

00:10:43.000 Is it poisonous?

00:10:44.000 Yeah, very poisonous.

00:10:46.000 But it's just painful?

00:10:47.000 It's not deadly?

00:10:48.000 No, you can get into a...

00:10:50.000 Bloodstream?

00:10:51.000 Epileptic shock.

00:10:52.000 Oh.

00:10:53.000 Well, that's not fun.

00:10:54.000 That can happen, but normally you just have, like if somebody was, somebody told me it's like you had a hammer in your head repeatedly.

00:11:02.000 Oh.

00:11:02.000 It's like a throbbing pain for about a day and a half.

00:11:05.000 Whoa.

00:11:05.000 So like a bullet ant almost.

00:11:07.000 It's a pain.

00:11:07.000 It's not, it's, it's, you really try to avoid it at all costs.

00:11:11.000 Oh.

00:11:11.000 So what would you compare the meat to?

00:11:16.000 Hogfish?

00:11:16.000 I don't know what that tastes like.

00:11:18.000 So, or maybe a very tiny Chilean sea bass, maybe?

00:11:24.000 Oh, okay.

00:11:25.000 That type of like oily, flaky...

00:11:27.000 Did you know that Chilean...

00:11:29.000 Did we talk about this on the podcast?

00:11:30.000 Chilean sea bass is not really a bass, it's a cod.

00:11:34.000 Maybe. 0.98

00:11:35.000 It's horseshit. 0.98

00:11:35.000 It's also endangered, but it's so good. 0.98

00:11:37.000 Is it endangered?

00:11:39.000 How's it on every menu if it's endangered?

00:11:42.000 Yep. 1.00

00:11:42.000 People are assholes. 1.00

00:11:44.000 So you go to this one destination. 1.00

00:11:48.000 You shoot this blackjack. 1.00

00:11:51.000 Were you hooked immediately?

00:11:53.000 Yes.

00:11:53.000 Really?

00:11:54.000 It was not about a spivishing part, actually.

00:11:56.000 I was still traumatized in the water.

00:11:59.000 I still had panic attacks when I was in the water.

00:12:04.000 But I fell in love the second I arrived to shore and we barbecued the fish on the beach.

00:12:09.000 And I was like, okay, this is for me.

00:12:12.000 That's the same exact thing that happened to me when I went deer hunting.

00:12:16.000 When me and my friend Brian Callan and Steve Rinella and Dan Doty, we were cooking this deer meat by a fire.

00:12:25.000 And I was like, this is the greatest thing ever.

00:12:27.000 The meat was so fresh because it was from an animal that was literally killed hours ago.

00:12:32.000 And then we're eating it by the fire.

00:12:34.000 I was like, I'm going to do this forever.

00:12:36.000 This is the greatest thing ever.

00:12:37.000 It's primal, right?

00:12:39.000 It is.

00:12:42.000 What I always tell people is that when you live in a big city, when I've never experienced that before, I've never felt that I was part of the ecosystem whatsoever.

00:12:53.000 Right.

00:12:54.000 And then all of a sudden I've been putting myself in the water when I'm surrounded by sharks or big fish or different things.

00:13:00.000 And I'm like, wow, we're actually not on top of the food chain at all.

00:13:04.000 There's a lot of stuff above us that can kill us.

00:13:07.000 And it's scary and it's humbling.

00:13:10.000 And I think as a person you have to experience that.

00:13:13.000 You have to put yourself out of your comfort zone to understand that you need to respect what's around you.

00:13:21.000 You cannot tell me 10 years ago, oh, you have to eat that fish because it's bad for DRM. And I'd be like, yeah, yeah, sure, buddy.

00:13:27.000 And then you see in a plane, you're like, ooh, that looks good and it's fine and this.

00:13:30.000 But then when you're in the water and you see what's going on and you see that a spot you've been diving for five years all of a sudden is empty, then it makes you understand that, you know, we actually have a very strong impact.

00:13:41.000 And it's our job to understand and respect it.

00:13:48.000 We're it.

00:13:48.000 We're the ecosystem.

00:13:49.000 We're just the one that we're the smartest one.

00:13:52.000 Sometimes.

00:13:53.000 We're the only ones that are consciously aware of our actions and the repercussions.

00:13:57.000 Yes.

00:13:58.000 Of our actions.

00:13:59.000 When you're, you know, first experiencing this your first time, in this feeling of connectedness and freedom and just being a part of the ecosystem, did you imagine that somehow or another this could be your life and your job?

00:14:17.000 Not at all.

00:14:19.000 I've never been hiking.

00:14:21.000 I've never used to be a big fan of the outdoors.

00:14:25.000 I don't go to the gym.

00:14:26.000 I don't exercise.

00:14:27.000 You don't go to the gym?

00:14:28.000 No.

00:14:29.000 I basically don't do anything.

00:14:30.000 And then all of a sudden, I was living in London in a nice apartment with two dogs and a nice car.

00:14:36.000 And all of a sudden, I was in freaking Africa camping in a bush catching my own food.

00:14:41.000 And sharing with villagers that had nothing to eat.

00:14:43.000 And I was like, okay, well, this is...

00:14:45.000 How did that happen?

00:14:46.000 Like, how did you go from this one trip?

00:14:49.000 I got invited to film a documentary in food sourcing.

00:14:52.000 And I was like, okay, I'm going to try it.

00:14:54.000 And I fell in love with it.

00:14:55.000 And the second I went back to London, I remember sitting at my desk and be like...

00:15:01.000 There's no way I can do that.

00:15:02.000 There's no way I can keep doing that for the rest of my life.

00:15:05.000 And everybody thought I was completely crazy.

00:15:08.000 I sold everything.

00:15:11.000 And I just left.

00:15:12.000 I moved away.

00:15:13.000 And I have like maybe two suitcases of stuff for the past three years.

00:15:19.000 I was reading somewhere where they were going to do an interview on you and they decided not to.

00:15:26.000 They were going to feature you in something, but they decided not to because of concerns for the depletion of fish in the ocean. 0.96

00:15:33.000 And I said, that is one of the dumbest fucking things I've ever heard because the impact of someone like you, what you're doing for your own personal consumption, taking a fish a day or whatever you're getting for your own personal consumption, Is negligible in comparison to all these people that are probably writing these articles that are going to buy sushi from commercial fishermen. 0.97

00:15:53.000 They're buying fish from the store that's wrapped in saran wrap. 0.99

00:15:58.000 They're completely out of touch.

00:16:01.000 You're in touch.

00:16:03.000 You're as in touch as you can get.

00:16:04.000 But to think that...

00:16:06.000 Somehow or another, you're doing something evil because you take photos of it and put it on your Instagram.

00:16:13.000 You had this amazing photo from a couple days ago with you, this big fish.

00:16:18.000 It was so fresh, and you guys were eating pieces of it.

00:16:22.000 You had cut a chunk of it out of its tail.

00:16:24.000 Yes, that was in Thailand.

00:16:26.000 Yeah, Phuket?

00:16:27.000 Yeah, near Phuket, actually.

00:16:29.000 We just went with this friend of ours, with his family, and we just went out for the day.

00:16:33.000 And we went spearfishing with my friend.

00:16:35.000 We caught a fish, and the guy was super happy.

00:16:37.000 He caught it right on the spot.

00:16:38.000 And all the kids were just picking on it.

00:16:41.000 They were so excited.

00:16:42.000 The second they came, that the boat arrived back to the island, they just went and grabbed the fish and they were trying to take pictures.

00:16:49.000 It was super cute.

00:16:50.000 What was the argument?

00:16:52.000 What was the piece that they were trying to put you in where they pulled you out of it?

00:16:55.000 What was that about?

00:16:56.000 That story is still getting me pretty angry.

00:17:02.000 So basically, I was speaking at a Women Empowerment Conference in New York last May.

00:17:06.000 And then when I was actually in Thailand, the woman that is organizing it calls me.

00:17:12.000 And she's like, oh, look, Valentine.

00:17:14.000 I need to talk to you about something and it's, you know, it's a little touchy.

00:17:18.000 I'm like, what?

00:17:19.000 She's like, well, one of our sponsors said that if you speak at a conference, they're going to watch their participation in the conference.

00:17:27.000 What was the sponsor?

00:17:28.000 The Wall Street Journal.

00:17:30.000 The Wall Street Journal.

00:17:32.000 And I'm like, what?

00:17:34.000 And she said, yeah, they feel like that your lifestyle isn't aligned with ocean preservation.

00:17:41.000 And she didn't say it directly, but she said, and you know me, I don't mind that you have pictures in a bathing suit.

00:17:52.000 I'm like, what do you mean, picture of my bathing suit?

00:17:54.000 Sorry, my burkini was not clean.

00:17:56.000 Like, what do you want from me?

00:17:58.000 I'm at a beach.

00:17:58.000 What am I supposed to wear?

00:18:00.000 Well, you're also swimming.

00:18:01.000 I'm swimming!

00:18:02.000 You're not wearing a bathing suit.

00:18:04.000 I mean, it's not like you're in your high heels, you know, being an Insta model.

00:18:08.000 You're wearing a bathing suit.

00:18:10.000 There's nothing wrong with that either.

00:18:11.000 But you're wearing a bathing suit because you're actually in the water.

00:18:15.000 Exactly. 0.81

00:18:15.000 I'm not in Mykonos next to a freaking pool. 0.81

00:18:17.000 I'm in Africana Beach when it's like 110 degrees.

00:18:21.000 What am I supposed to wear?

00:18:22.000 You're not on a yacht with Dan Bilzerian.

00:18:27.000 Respect.

00:18:27.000 So, I mean, what did you say to them?

00:18:33.000 Wall Street Journal, that is so crazy.

00:18:35.000 You know, and I get it from their perspective. 1.00

00:18:37.000 It's a bullshit argument, but from their perspective, it's just about optics. 0.99

00:18:41.000 It's about how it looks. 1.00

00:18:43.000 That's all it is.

00:18:43.000 And if they go there, and people love to get outraged about something.

00:18:47.000 If they go there, and then they go to your Instagram and they find pictures of you with fish, they're like, well, this girl's cleaning out the ocean all by herself. 0.59

00:18:55.000 She Yeah, I'm very good.

00:18:57.000 You would have to be really good.

00:19:00.000 I mean, have you ever seen a commercial fishing boat, what they do?

00:19:02.000 Yes.

00:19:03.000 Yeah, most people haven't.

00:19:05.000 Jamie, see if you could pull off the horrific effects of commercial net fishing.

00:19:12.000 Because if you find a video, we could watch a clip of the video.

00:19:16.000 It's crazy when you see the sheer volume of fish that they pull out of the ocean and when you realize there's countless numbers of these boats and essentially pretty much unregulated.

00:19:31.000 And no one's watching them.

00:19:32.000 They're doing it all over the world.

00:19:34.000 I mean, there's areas where you're not allowed to fish.

00:19:35.000 But overall, it's nothing like the way we treat wild mammals or wild birds.

00:19:41.000 The way we treat wild mammals, especially in North America, is they're very closely monitored.

00:19:47.000 Their numbers, their populations.

00:19:49.000 We make sure that unless it's an invasive species like wild pigs, like, here we go.

00:19:55.000 This is...

00:19:56.000 This is awful.

00:19:58.000 They take this gigantic net, they circle all these fish, and then when they're pulling them in, you get to see the sheer volume.

00:20:06.000 See, as they get close, But that's one of the smoother way to commercial fish.

00:20:13.000 France is very big on trawlers and it's two kilometers wide net that is actually scraping the bottom completely, destroying everything.

00:20:23.000 Destroying the coral.

00:20:24.000 And there's electric shocks on each side.

00:20:26.000 This is actually a fairly mild one.

00:20:29.000 And it looks like they're getting these little tiny fish.

00:20:32.000 But, I mean, you could find it, folks, if you wanted to go and Google it online.

00:20:36.000 But that is the issue, too, right?

00:20:38.000 That these nets go all the way to the bottom, and they destroy anything that they touch.

00:20:43.000 Like, the whole, the bottom of the ocean just gets dragged, and all the coral gets destroyed.

00:20:50.000 It's extremely destructive, but it's what...

00:20:53.000 That's how you get sushi.

00:20:54.000 There's so much...

00:20:55.000 The fish industry...

00:20:56.000 It's not even necessarily how you get sushi.

00:20:59.000 It's how you get sushi so damn cheap.

00:21:01.000 Right.

00:21:02.000 But it's...

00:21:03.000 By the way, if we keep doing that, there's literally going to be no fish very, very, very soon.

00:21:08.000 But then, how do you explain that...

00:21:10.000 In Canada, you're not allowed to spearfish.

00:21:12.000 What?

00:21:13.000 And you have to release most of the fish you rod and reel.

00:21:16.000 There's a lot of stories...

00:21:17.000 You have to release most of the fish you rod and reel?

00:21:19.000 Yeah, in Canada, like the striper, the striped bass.

00:21:23.000 How many can you get a day?

00:21:25.000 Striped bass, like one a day or something like that?

00:21:27.000 One a day.

00:21:28.000 Spear fishing, one a day.

00:21:29.000 And the U.S. side.

00:21:31.000 In Canada, you're not even going to touch anything.

00:21:32.000 Why can't you spear fish in Canada?

00:21:36.000 Because the Anglers Association in Canada thinks that we're the evils, basically.

00:21:42.000 That you're evil, why?

00:21:44.000 Because you can actually see what you're catching?

00:21:45.000 Yeah, so basically we're the cheaters because we can see the fish.

00:21:49.000 And I'm like, how can you be in your camping chairs on your boat, drinking beers all day, telling me that I'm the cheater when I'm working my ass off, diving at like 60 feet to catch my fish?

00:22:02.000 To bring it back.

00:22:03.000 And I risked my life.

00:22:04.000 I risked my life drowning.

00:22:05.000 I risked my life with sharks.

00:22:06.000 I risked my life with all sorts of things that can happen. 0.98

00:22:09.000 And you're telling me, drinking your Budweiser in your freaking camping chair that I'm the cheater? 0.80

00:22:14.000 I'm like, I'm sorry, but no. 0.93

00:22:16.000 Well, people always want to think that everybody else is doing it wrong.

00:22:20.000 True.

00:22:20.000 You know?

00:22:21.000 Vegans want to think people that eat meat are doing it wrong.

00:22:23.000 People that eat meat want to think vegans are doing it wrong.

00:22:26.000 People who fish off a boat want to think that people who spearfish are doing it wrong.

00:22:30.000 You think they're probably doing it wrong.

00:22:33.000 No, I have nothing, again, catching you on food as long as you're respectful with the way you do it.

00:22:39.000 But there was a big scandal in Florida for the past years with the bread snapper, by example.

00:22:44.000 And it was about...

00:22:47.000 Like recreational fishing, you allow a certain amount of red snapper and then the season closes.

00:22:54.000 And when the season closes, as an individual, my license to fish is gone.

00:23:00.000 And then they give it away to the commercial fishermen.

00:23:04.000 And I'm like, whoa, so basically you're telling me that I'm not allowed to catch that fish for a few months because the population is too bad.

00:23:13.000 But then you're giving my quota to the commercial boats that are catching hundreds a day.

00:23:18.000 They're like, yeah.

00:23:23.000 No, it doesn't make any sense.

00:23:24.000 No, it doesn't.

00:23:25.000 But most people are not going to spearfish.

00:23:28.000 Most people are going to fish.

00:23:29.000 So you guys don't have a voice, right?

00:23:32.000 In terms of representative voice, it comes to creating these laws and establishing these rules.

00:23:40.000 There's not that many of you.

00:23:42.000 And the food chain, we're the plankton.

00:23:45.000 You have the commercial fishing with very big lobbyists and a lot of money.

00:23:50.000 And then you have the anglers, which is a little bit...

00:23:53.000 It's still not super bad because they still have big boats company and equipment.

00:23:56.000 It's still like a market which is good enough.

00:23:59.000 And then you have the spear fishermen.

00:24:01.000 Right.

00:24:01.000 And spear fishermen were not a lot in the world.

00:24:05.000 I couldn't even tell you how many, but we're not a million.

00:24:08.000 I'm freaking sure.

00:24:09.000 It's probably less spear fishermen than there are bow hunters.

00:24:14.000 That's highly possible.

00:24:15.000 Yeah, I would imagine.

00:24:16.000 Because it seems more dangerous and difficult than bow hunting.

00:24:21.000 It seems like the next level.

00:24:23.000 It seems like one of the most difficult things you can do if you want to get your food.

00:24:27.000 It's...

00:24:27.000 Because you're going into an alien environment and you're holding your breath.

00:24:31.000 True.

00:24:32.000 But actually, the human body...

00:24:34.000 That's the main argument I get from people.

00:24:36.000 They tell me, oh, I could never do it.

00:24:38.000 But the human body is actually made to do this.

00:24:43.000 So there's a thing called the mammalian dive reflex.

00:24:47.000 And this is very present in aquatic mammals, such as like dolphins or seals and things like that.

00:24:53.000 And the humans have it in a way weaker way, but we still have it.

00:24:58.000 And so when you immerse your face underwater, your heartbeat is automatically going to slow down, especially if the water is colder.

00:25:07.000 So your body is getting prepared to hold its breath to catch food.

00:25:13.000 And that's a new DNA. Is it preparing to catch food or is it just preparing to survive?

00:25:19.000 To hold your breath underwater.

00:25:21.000 Right, for some reason.

00:25:22.000 I mean, I guess that was a very successive thing to say because I'm seeing catch food, but I just don't see why a human being genetically would have to go underwater.

00:25:31.000 Are you aware of the aquatic ape theory?

00:25:34.000 No.

00:25:35.000 It's a very controversial theory, but the theory is that we evolved somehow or another.

00:25:42.000 Like, you know, dolphins apparently were at one point in time a land animal.

00:25:48.000 Is that right?

00:25:50.000 Were dolphins a land animal at one point in time?

00:25:54.000 I don't know if that's true.

00:25:56.000 I might have made that up.

00:25:57.000 But the idea was that humans were the only ape that grew up in close proximity to water to the point where we evolved in the water.

00:26:08.000 Dolphins may have remains of legs.

00:26:11.000 Yeah, okay.

00:26:12.000 Fossil Remains shows dolphins and whales were four-footed land animals about 50 million years ago and share the same common ancestors as hippos and deer.

00:26:21.000 Whoa.

00:26:22.000 Scientists believe that they later transitioned to an aquatic lifestyle and that their hind limbs disappeared.

00:26:27.000 Okay, so this is fairly recent.

00:26:29.000 If you think about evolutionary terms, you know, the dinosaurs were killed 65 million years ago.

00:26:34.000 So inside of that, 15 million years later, they were walking around. 0.98

00:26:38.000 Which is fucking nuts. 0.98

00:26:40.000 They were like hippos. 1.00

00:26:41.000 They think...

00:26:42.000 So Google the...

00:26:43.000 Whoa, look at what they used to look like. 0.99

00:26:45.000 What the fuck, man? 0.99

00:26:47.000 Google aquatic ape theory. 0.99

00:26:50.000 I don't know enough about this to really speak on it, but that has never stopped me in the past.

00:26:56.000 But this theory is one of the reasons why they think humans have so much fat on us when we're babies, is that we float easier, and that if you take a human baby and you chuck them in the water... 0.99

00:27:08.000 Okay, well, what the fuck is that? 0.97

00:27:09.000 How about an actual article, not a picture? 0.99

00:27:11.000 Is this a cartoon?

00:27:13.000 Well, but it's not even just about your heartbeat slowing down.

00:27:17.000 There's a bunch of things that happen, like crazy things.

00:27:20.000 Babies know how to hold their breath.

00:27:22.000 They instantly hold their breath.

00:27:23.000 That's like their Nirvana album cover.

00:27:26.000 Mammalian diving reflex.

00:27:28.000 Yes, that's what I'm talking about.

00:27:30.000 It purports that some humans, notably children under five, may also use this reflex to survive prolonged submersion.

00:27:34.000 The mammalian dive reflex theory was developed in 1960 as an explanation for well-publicized survival of exceptional submersion times of some near-drowning victims.

00:27:45.000 But see if there's anything, like an actual article, that makes sense on the aquatic ape theory.

00:27:51.000 There's a new aquatic ape theory.

00:27:53.000 This is from the Smithsonian.

00:27:54.000 Oh, okay.

00:27:55.000 Hmm, okay.

00:27:57.000 Okay, the aquatic ape theory, now largely dismissed, tries to explain the origins of many humankind.

00:28:02.000 Unique traits popularized in the 1970s, 1980s by writer Elaine Morgan.

00:28:07.000 The theory suggests that early hominids lived in water at least part of the time.

00:28:11.000 This aquatic lifestyle...

00:28:13.000 Supposedly accounts for our hairless bodies, which made us more streamlined for swimming and diving, our upright two-legged walking, which made wading easier, and our layers of subcutaneous fat, which made us better insulated in water, think whale blubber.

00:28:26.000 The theory even links an aquatic existence to the extinction of human speech, evolution, rather, of human speech.

00:28:33.000 The hypothesis was met with much criticism, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:28:39.000 2009, Richard Rangham of Harvard University and colleagues suggested in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology that shallow aquatic habitats allowed hominids to thrive in savannas, enabling our ancestors to move from tropical forests to open grasslands.

00:28:57.000 So from 2.5 million to 1.4 million years ago, Africa became drier during certain seasons.

00:29:05.000 Already, dry savannas became even more arid, making it difficult for hominids to find adequate food.

00:29:10.000 But Wrangham's team suggested that even in this inhospitable environment, there were oasises, wetlands, and lake shores, and these aquatic habitats, water lilies, cattails, blah, [...

00:29:22.000 So that's the theory. 0.99

00:29:23.000 The theory is that We, like, you know, obviously there's a bunch of different kinds of primates, and some of them are still in trees today, those fucking losers. 0.99

00:29:31.000 We left them behind. 1.00

00:29:32.000 Ha ha. 1.00

00:29:33.000 Those are the ones that really dumb people point to. 0.99

00:29:34.000 If people came from monkeys, why are monkeys still around? 1.00

00:29:38.000 Well, they're dumb. 1.00

00:29:39.000 They were the dumb monkeys, bro. 1.00

00:29:41.000 Come on. 1.00

00:29:42.000 Get it together.

00:29:44.000 We're the ones that made cars.

00:29:46.000 But some of these apes spent a lot of time in the water. 0.99

00:29:52.000 And that's why, if you ever see a baby chimp, their heart is a rock.

00:29:56.000 They're jacked.

00:29:58.000 Baby chimps, they come out sinewy, no body fat, and you throw them in the water, they drown. 0.56

00:30:04.000 They don't hold their breath.

00:30:05.000 They don't know what to do.

00:30:07.000 They just gag on water and drown.

00:30:10.000 Not that I know.

00:30:11.000 Not that I'm throwing chimps in the water.

00:30:12.000 But that's what they say.

00:30:14.000 But if you throw a baby person in the water, they hold their breath.

00:30:18.000 So this is the aquatic ape theory.

00:30:21.000 That's what scientists are basically saying about freediving. 0.76

00:30:26.000 When I first learned about it, it completely blew my mind.

00:30:31.000 How long can you hold your breath now?

00:30:32.000 Five and a half. 1.00

00:30:33.000 Holy shit. 0.99

00:30:35.000 But like facing down on the water and not moving and doing your preparation. 0.99

00:30:38.000 Not swimming?

00:30:39.000 No, not swimming.

00:30:40.000 Just face down.

00:30:40.000 How long can you hold it if you have to dive into the water?

00:30:43.000 How much time do you give yourself?

00:30:46.000 It depends the depth.

00:30:47.000 It depends the fish you hunt.

00:30:48.000 It depends the conditions.

00:30:50.000 It depends on a lot of things.

00:30:51.000 So like if you're fighting the water currents, it's more difficult?

00:30:55.000 Yes, because basically what you want to do when you free dive is you want to be as calm as possible.

00:31:00.000 You want to be as relaxed as you can, which is why yoga and meditation are often very close to free diving.

00:31:06.000 Because if your heartbeat is high, then your body is going to need more oxygen.

00:31:14.000 That makes sense, obviously.

00:31:16.000 But then again, the second you merge your face in the water, you do like your first dive, and then you feel the pressure.

00:31:21.000 Your body understands that you're trying to hold your breath, and you need to do that.

00:31:26.000 So the blood is gonna start coming from your fingers, your extremities, your toes, and then your hands, your feet.

00:31:33.000 So all the vessels are gonna start constrict.

00:31:37.000 So all the blood flow is gonna go towards your vitals organs.

00:31:42.000 So your body is getting ready for it.

00:31:44.000 So they want to make sure that the oxygen goes exactly where it needs to be and make sure that you need as less effort to do anything as possible when you're actually underwater.

00:31:54.000 Now, when you first tried holding your breath, how long did you do it for?

00:31:58.000 The first time I did it?

00:31:59.000 Yeah.

00:32:00.000 I think my first time trying it was about a minute.

00:32:04.000 That was like the best you could do.

00:32:05.000 Yeah.

00:32:06.000 With no techniques, just ready, go.

00:32:07.000 No, no.

00:32:08.000 Technique, like, you breathe a little bit before.

00:32:12.000 Even with techniques?

00:32:13.000 Yeah, with techniques.

00:32:14.000 It was...

00:32:15.000 It's...

00:32:17.000 When you hold your breath, you have the buildup of CO2 in your body because you're not excelling any.

00:32:22.000 And then when your body realizes that there's a buildup, it gives you an urge to breathe.

00:32:27.000 And then it gives you contractions, like diaphragm contractions.

00:32:31.000 And this is what makes somebody panic.

00:32:33.000 You know, like, my body needs hair.

00:32:34.000 And you want hair, you want hair. 0.95

00:32:35.000 And then the more you train, then you realize that you learn how to control it.

00:32:40.000 And it's not because your body tells you to breathe that you're necessarily out of oxygen.

00:32:46.000 So what techniques do you do to relax that?

00:32:51.000 Breathing.

00:32:52.000 So I do mostly, especially when I'm in the water, I do a very short inhale, so about five seconds, and then I do a long inhale, maybe 10 to 15 seconds.

00:33:02.000 And then when you exhale, you're focusing on everything getting relaxed.

00:33:07.000 I'm sorry, can you say that again?

00:33:09.000 Because you said inhale twice.

00:33:10.000 Oh, sorry.

00:33:10.000 Did you mean to?

00:33:11.000 No.

00:33:12.000 So you inhale for five seconds, and then you exhale for 10 to 15 seconds.

00:33:17.000 Oh, okay.

00:33:17.000 So you exhale slowly?

00:33:19.000 You exhale super slowly.

00:33:20.000 You use your tongue to control the air coming out.

00:33:23.000 And then when you do that, you get as relaxed as possible.

00:33:26.000 And then the more relaxed you are, that along with your mammal diving reflex, which is your heart being slowed down naturally, your blood shifting from extremities to your final organs.

00:33:37.000 And then you also have...

00:33:39.000 About a few years ago, maybe only 50 years ago, they taught that when you reach 30 meters, your body would be completely crushed inside.

00:33:47.000 That was what a scientist would think.

00:33:49.000 30 meters?

00:33:50.000 Yeah, something like that.

00:33:52.000 That the pressure would be so great there that your body would be completely crushed.

00:33:56.000 But then again, with that dive reflex, what it does is that that overflow of blood is going around your alveolies and your lungs, which prevent them from crushing.

00:34:06.000 Your body is actually a design machine to go underwater.

00:34:12.000 Wow.

00:34:13.000 Which is completely crazy, considering that I never knew that, especially growing up in downtown Montreal.

00:34:20.000 Yeah.

00:34:21.000 And then you put somebody in the water and you're like, hey, you actually made for that.

00:34:25.000 So when people tell me, oh, I could never do that.

00:34:27.000 It's too hard.

00:34:28.000 No, no.

00:34:28.000 You're actually born like that.

00:34:30.000 So was it a revelation for you?

00:34:33.000 I mean, did you really feel like this is more of who I am than the life that I was living before?

00:34:39.000 100%.

00:34:39.000 I was living in London, too.

00:34:42.000 So it was all about...

00:34:45.000 All about, you know, earning money to buy as many things as possible, to try and impress as many people as possible.

00:34:50.000 And then at some point I was like, wow, I cannot do that.

00:34:54.000 I cannot spend my entire life just seeking to buy things and impress people that I don't like.

00:35:01.000 And then when I started spearfishing, it really gave me a different perspective on life.

00:35:08.000 It gave me the...

00:35:09.000 It humbled me in a way that was so...

00:35:13.000 So intense that it changed my way of thinking completely.

00:35:18.000 Basically.

00:35:20.000 So as I was...

00:35:22.000 How did it humble you?

00:35:24.000 Like in what way?

00:35:25.000 Because I realized that...

00:35:28.000 When we were...

00:35:30.000 Let's say when I filmed a documentary in...

00:35:33.000 I filmed a documentary called Aqua Negra in Cape Verde two years ago.

00:35:40.000 Aqua Negra? 0.96

00:35:41.000 Yeah.

00:35:42.000 Agua.

00:35:42.000 Agua?

00:35:44.000 Does that mean black water?

00:35:45.000 Yes, in Portuguese.

00:35:47.000 And then we were there for about five weeks, five or six weeks, and then the living conditions were really bad.

00:35:54.000 And there was no grocery stores around, and we had to catch our own food, and it was really a self-sufficient type of trip.

00:36:00.000 And the first week, I remember, the only thing I could focus on was, oh god, this is terrible, we don't have a shower, there's no hot water, the bathroom is disgusting, I'm starving, there's nothing around,

00:36:16.000 and then all you can think is how your comfort's gone.

00:36:19.000 And after a week, that's...

00:36:24.000 The focus changed on the good things that we're seeing around us.

00:36:28.000 And by having nothing all of a sudden, then I was like, oh, I actually now, for the first time in my life, can take the time to realize what's good around me.

00:36:39.000 And then how we were having fires with the neighbors and then how we were offering them fish and we were thinking, oh, you know, if I give this guy two fish, he's going to eat one today and then one tomorrow.

00:36:49.000 But no, they're inviting new neighbors to share and they make sure that there's like a whole community sense to all of it.

00:36:55.000 And I was like, wow, I've been living in London for six years.

00:36:57.000 I don't even know the name of my neighbor.

00:37:00.000 And it's bad.

00:37:01.000 It's not a way of living that I want.

00:37:04.000 It's not focusing on the right things and it's... 0.98

00:37:08.000 In that way, you know, it's realized how much of an asshole we actually became, and I just didn't want to do that. 0.95

00:37:16.000 Well, it's a very recent way that people have been living. 0.97

00:37:19.000 This way of living in apartment buildings and the way of living in houses where we don't know our neighbors.

00:37:24.000 Yes.

00:37:25.000 In terms of human history, it's very recent, and I don't think we're designed for it.

00:37:30.000 I don't think so either.

00:37:32.000 It's the human...

00:37:34.000 I do believe that a human being, to be happy, you need to have this sense of community, which is why, you know, when you go on the subway and you see, like, somebody singing, everybody's laughing, and you see those videos on YouTube, and it makes you all warm and happy inside, it's because that's what we're meant to be,

00:37:50.000 you know?

00:37:50.000 And we're meant to live with other people, we're meant to socialize, we're meant to have this...

00:37:56.000 This strong feeling of, I don't know how to say that in English, to be part of something, to be part of a group and people like that.

00:38:05.000 And I do think it's a necessity for human beings to be actually happy.

00:38:10.000 I think so too, and I think it's probably one of the reasons why so many people are so grossly unhappy and so depressed and so disconnected and they feel alienated even though they live in these giant cities.

00:38:21.000 People feel extremely lonely, even though there's a lot of people around.

00:38:25.000 I mean, one of the weirder things about New York City, you know, I have friends who live in New York City and one of the things they say they love is how many people are there.

00:38:34.000 There's all this energy.

00:38:35.000 There's all this energy.

00:38:35.000 I'm like, yeah, but you're not even talking to those people.

00:38:38.000 That's what's weird.

00:38:39.000 It's like you're alienated in this little 1,200 foot little cubicle that you live in.

00:38:44.000 You know, this little, I guess 1,200 foot's not that small.

00:38:47.000 But, you know, some of them, like Ari's place is like, I have to ask him.

00:38:52.000 I think it's tiny.

00:38:53.000 It's probably like half that.

00:38:55.000 It's probably like 600 feet.

00:38:56.000 It was probably like five million. 0.99

00:38:57.000 It's probably stupid expensive, right? 0.97

00:39:00.000 But the idea is that you don't know anybody around you, but you're stacked around all these people and then you go out you're walking around these people, but you're not really talking to them and you have a few people that your friends with maybe that you work with and you interact with them, but then you're constantly surrounded by all these other people that you don't even know. 0.97

00:39:17.000 It's a very weird weird way to live.

00:39:20.000 Whereas The way you were living, the way you were describing this with these people and they're all sharing fish and everyone's taking care of everybody and giving some to their neighbors and sharing.

00:39:33.000 That's how people have been living forever.

00:39:35.000 I think there's certain human reward systems that are built into who we are as a being, as a species, that just aren't being met.

00:39:46.000 And that's why I'm so fascinated by your choice to go from being a lawyer to living this very interesting life of spearfishing. 1.00

00:39:56.000 But it's also, it's not always easy in the sense that I still haven't found a place where I want to live because the society isn't designed for this.

00:40:09.000 My lifestyle is very hard to adapt with modern society.

00:40:14.000 I struggle with a lot of things.

00:40:16.000 I don't know where to live.

00:40:18.000 I don't know...

00:40:19.000 Because this sense of community, you can have it in small villages.

00:40:22.000 Yeah.

00:40:23.000 So that's kind of why I've been living in...

00:40:25.000 Well, not anymore, but I lived in the Bahamas for a year.

00:40:28.000 And I got to experience that.

00:40:30.000 When everybody knows each other, everybody talks to each other.

00:40:32.000 Why don't you stay there?

00:40:35.000 Because for now, I guess...

00:40:38.000 Well, I couldn't.

00:40:40.000 I woke up with my ex-boyfriend.

00:40:41.000 I couldn't live there anymore.

00:40:42.000 So it was his house.

00:40:43.000 I was like, alright, I'm out.

00:40:46.000 So that is, I just, I don't know.

00:40:50.000 It's, I still need, you know, to survive.

00:40:52.000 I still need to, yeah, I catch a lot of my own food and my freezer's literally full to the rim, but I, you still need money to live.

00:41:02.000 Right.

00:41:03.000 And how do you make money?

00:41:05.000 I get a few things.

00:41:06.000 I'm working right now on a cookbook and a TV show with a Canadian company.

00:41:12.000 Do you make any money off your Instagram page?

00:41:14.000 Yeah, sometimes.

00:41:15.000 Because some people do, right?

00:41:16.000 Sometimes.

00:41:17.000 How do you do that?

00:41:18.000 How do you make money off your Instagram page?

00:41:19.000 Like sponsors and different things like that.

00:41:21.000 I just don't like being like, hey, drink my detox tea.

00:41:25.000 Oh, yeah.

00:41:25.000 Skinny tea.

00:41:28.000 I just don't like doing that.

00:41:30.000 And the problem also is...

00:41:34.000 Like, was it two years ago?

00:41:36.000 I was a super big contract with a cruise ship company.

00:41:38.000 They need a girl to like, they need a freediving girl. 0.95

00:41:42.000 And we're not that many of us.

00:41:44.000 So when they hired me, about a week later, she calls me back.

00:41:47.000 She's like, I'm sorry, we can't hire you anymore.

00:41:49.000 I'm like, what?

00:41:50.000 Why?

00:41:51.000 And she says, because we're partnered with WWF and our marketing department said that you raised a red flag because you're spitfish for a living.

00:42:03.000 WWF? Wrestling?

00:42:05.000 WWE? A WWE, like the panda one. 1.00

00:42:07.000 Like the what?

00:42:08.000 The one with the panda.

00:42:09.000 The one that made him change the name to WWE. The World Wide...

00:42:13.000 Yeah, that's what it used to be.

00:42:14.000 Okay.

00:42:15.000 Is that what you're saying?

00:42:16.000 The wrestling?

00:42:17.000 Pro wrestling?

00:42:18.000 No, no, no.

00:42:18.000 The eco-friendly.

00:42:20.000 Oh.

00:42:22.000 With the panda. 1.00

00:42:22.000 Damn it. 1.00

00:42:23.000 World Wide Wide Federation? 1.00

00:42:24.000 Yeah, that one.

00:42:25.000 Oh, they made them change their name?

00:42:26.000 That's why they changed their name?

00:42:27.000 Oh, I thought they changed their name because of a lawsuit because they had to show that they were entertainment.

00:42:33.000 I don't think so.

00:42:35.000 Huh.

00:42:37.000 So WWF owned it?

00:42:38.000 I believe so.

00:42:40.000 I didn't know that.

00:42:41.000 I really thought that it was just because of regulations.

00:42:46.000 WWF. WWF. So?

00:42:48.000 So basically, yeah, they said like, oh, because we really want to keep our eco-friendly partners. 0.99

00:42:54.000 Meanwhile, their fucking boat's filled with roast beef and chicken and all sorts of other shit. 0.99

00:42:58.000 Meanwhile, when they cross, they're allowed, I think it's about when you're two miles away from the coast, you're allowed to dump your garbage in the ocean. 1.00

00:43:06.000 What?

00:43:06.000 Everything.

00:43:07.000 As a cruise ship, we're allowed to open the trap and just throw everything in the freaking ocean. 0.82

00:43:11.000 Come on. 0.92

00:43:11.000 Is that true? 0.92

00:43:12.000 It's true.

00:43:13.000 What?

00:43:13.000 That's the law.

00:43:14.000 It's the law.

00:43:15.000 Do they do that?

00:43:16.000 Of course they do that.

00:43:18.000 Oh, my God.

00:43:19.000 And that's one of them.

00:43:20.000 That's one of the problems.

00:43:21.000 There are five people cruise ship.

00:43:24.000 How many straw do they think they use and glasses because they're too lazy to wash them? 1.00

00:43:29.000 That's one of the problems.

00:43:31.000 And then the Bahamas...

00:43:33.000 You know how much dredging you need to make for a cruise ship boat to actually pass and dock somewhere?

00:43:39.000 You need to rip up the entire bottom of the ocean.

00:43:42.000 So it's deep enough.

00:43:44.000 It's a very, very detrimental...

00:43:48.000 Organization for the ocean.

00:43:52.000 And then they're telling me, I'll start with you because you catch your own food in the water.

00:43:56.000 Sorry, you're bad for the ocean.

00:43:58.000 I'm like, what?

00:43:59.000 I catch my own food.

00:44:00.000 I don't buy this disgusting farm salmon from Whole Foods because it's gross.

00:44:05.000 And are you telling me that I'm bad?

00:44:06.000 Like, what?

00:44:07.000 Yeah, most people don't know that farm salmon, they dye the fish to make it look orange.

00:44:12.000 Like, if you buy farm salmon and they're not dyeing it, it would be a white meat.

00:44:17.000 Because they're not eating what they eat naturally.

00:44:20.000 It's bugs.

00:44:21.000 Certain bugs give them...

00:44:22.000 Or shrimp?

00:44:23.000 What is it?

00:44:23.000 No.

00:44:24.000 It's pelicans.

00:44:26.000 No, not pelicans. 0.99

00:44:27.000 What are those little fucking weird... 0.99

00:44:28.000 Bunch of crabs. 0.99

00:44:29.000 The ones that people have on their lawns.

00:44:31.000 Salmon is not pale orange.

00:44:33.000 It's dark orange.

00:44:33.000 Flamingos.

00:44:34.000 Flamingos are pink because of the shrimp they eat, right?

00:44:38.000 I think so.

00:44:39.000 Yeah, it literally makes them pink.

00:44:41.000 But salmon are dark when they're wild because of their diet, their natural diet, which includes a lot of bugs, I guess.

00:44:48.000 Yeah, they just basically feed them in whatever they have.

00:44:51.000 Like salmon is not supposed to be pale orange.

00:44:54.000 It's dark orange.

00:44:55.000 Right, yeah.

00:44:56.000 Yeah, I've caught wild salmon before.

00:44:58.000 It's awesome.

00:44:59.000 It is really good.

00:45:01.000 But sadly, with all the water that they made to make electricity and all the stuff like that, they killed all of them.

00:45:10.000 Well, they killed quite a few.

00:45:11.000 There's an interesting place in Seattle where you can go and watch the salmon swim upriver.

00:45:18.000 There's like a bridge and you go underneath the bridge and they have this setup where there's thick glass walls where you can actually look into the ocean and watch the salmon go up the salmon ladder.

00:45:27.000 It's really fascinating.

00:45:29.000 It's crazy to watch them. 0.97

00:45:30.000 But one of the guys who was there who was a guide was explaining how How when they were doing construction and doing various things and they're building Seattle, they'd shut down one of the rivers and these salmon would just get to the mouth of the river where they thought they were supposed to go and fucking die. 0.96

00:45:46.000 And it was crazy.

00:45:47.000 Like millions of them died while they were trying to figure out a way to carve this path again.

00:45:52.000 Yeah.

00:45:53.000 It's pretty weird how they die too, they like rot.

00:45:56.000 I went diving in the Salmon River in BC and I was underwater with my girlfriend and I could see they had like big stains of like rot on their body.

00:46:07.000 So they live like they fall alive in the ocean and they came to breed one last time, which I guess is a good last choice when you think about it.

00:46:15.000 And then it just rot to death.

00:46:17.000 Yeah, it's very strange.

00:46:18.000 And if you catch them too far along the process, their body's already deteriorated.

00:46:24.000 I know guys who have caught them.

00:46:28.000 In survival situations, people eat them because you have to.

00:46:32.000 But if you caught them towards the end of their cycle, their body's like mush.

00:46:37.000 You literally shove your fingers through it.

00:46:39.000 Yeah.

00:46:41.000 But you see, that's what people eat.

00:46:44.000 But again, you know, the Wall Street Journal and their Instagram page when they're promoting a recipe for shrimp that are probably coming from Thailand or salmon that is farmed and very bad for the environment.

00:46:56.000 But then they think that, I don't know, there's something ridiculously taboo about catching food. 0.53

00:47:03.000 It's ridiculous. 0.81

00:47:05.000 And people... 0.95

00:47:06.000 Imagine...

00:47:07.000 I know how hunting has a bad reputation because of the blood and things like that.

00:47:13.000 But in fishing, we deal on top of it with a bunch of lobbyists that are fighting us for the fish at the same time.

00:47:20.000 Because they want to sell those fish.

00:47:23.000 Because they want the fish.

00:47:24.000 And all we are for them is something in the way.

00:47:27.000 And we don't buy their fish at all.

00:47:29.000 And because there's so few of you...

00:47:32.000 They can, you know, they can shut us down.

00:47:35.000 They can say anything that they want about us and we don't have the power to say something back.

00:47:40.000 Right.

00:47:40.000 If they shut down sports fear spearfishing, there really wouldn't be much outcry.

00:47:45.000 How many spearfisher people are there? 0.99

00:47:48.000 I would lose my shit, but I don't think I can do much. 0.97

00:47:50.000 Well, you'd make a post on Instagram and a couple of people would like it. 0.99

00:47:54.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:47:55.000 I got 5,000 likes.

00:47:58.000 How many spearfisher people Are in the country?

00:48:02.000 Let's Google just America, just United States.

00:48:05.000 How many Spearfit? 0.92

00:48:06.000 How would you know?

00:48:08.000 Because you don't have to have a license for the ocean, right?

00:48:12.000 It depends on the state.

00:48:14.000 Florida you do. 0.51

00:48:16.000 You do have to have a license?

00:48:16.000 In Florida you do.

00:48:18.000 Oh, interesting.

00:48:18.000 Well, it's like, you know, $25 license.

00:48:21.000 I Googled that and there's a city called Spearfish in South Dakota.

00:48:25.000 It gave me the populations.

00:48:26.000 I don't know how to find it.

00:48:30.000 How many active—just write spearfishermen—no disrespect to the spearfisher ladies.

00:48:37.000 I don't think we count that much in the database anyways.

00:48:40.000 How many spearfishermen are there in the United States?

00:48:44.000 It's going back to that state or that city.

00:48:47.000 It's going really fast, actually.

00:48:49.000 It is?

00:48:50.000 It is going fast.

00:48:51.000 There's like a trend now for people who catch their own food and people are starting slowly because there's so many of big people, special celebrities.

00:49:00.000 They're spearfishing?

00:49:02.000 No, they're voicing themselves when it comes to food sourcing and now people are starting to realize that hunting or spearfishing is actually not as bad.

00:49:11.000 It's way better.

00:49:11.000 It is.

00:49:12.000 But it's just very difficult.

00:49:14.000 According to Sports Illustrated, there's estimated between 1 million and 2 million.

00:49:19.000 In the country?

00:49:20.000 Yeah.

00:49:21.000 That's a lot of people.

00:49:23.000 Yeah, that's a big estimation.

00:49:25.000 That's close to 1%, right?

00:49:28.000 There's 3 million people.

00:49:29.000 If there's 2 million, 300 million people, rather, if there's 2 million spearfisher people. 0.99

00:49:34.000 Yeah, close.

00:49:35.000 Yeah, but that's...

00:49:36.000 That doesn't make sense. 0.96

00:49:37.000 That's ridiculous. 0.97

00:49:39.000 I mean, even if it was one half of a percent, that's crazy. 0.97

00:49:43.000 So you're telling me if you get a room of 200 people, one of them's going to be a spear fisherman? 1.00

00:49:46.000 Get the fuck out of here. 0.99

00:49:47.000 Oh, I'm sorry. 0.99

00:49:48.000 This article I just saw at the very, very top is from 1954. There was only 80 people alive back then, man.

00:49:54.000 That makes it even worse, I feel like.

00:49:57.000 That's hilarious.

00:49:58.000 You talk about pulling it.

00:49:59.000 You know how people are like, yeah, bro, that article's from 2016. Yeah.

00:50:04.000 Wow.

00:50:05.000 You should know if you want to take up spearfishing.

00:50:09.000 Wow.

00:50:10.000 By the know-it-all.

00:50:13.000 Wow.

00:50:14.000 That's crazy.

00:50:17.000 1954. I'll try again.

00:50:19.000 Okay.

00:50:20.000 Just give it a shot.

00:50:21.000 Whatever.

00:50:21.000 I mean, it's a great sport.

00:50:22.000 It's the best way to eat fish and seafood.

00:50:25.000 Oh, I can only imagine.

00:50:26.000 I love fishing.

00:50:27.000 I love fishing.

00:50:28.000 It's really fun.

00:50:29.000 It can be a little stressful sometimes.

00:50:32.000 I get that.

00:50:33.000 But imagine if you're floating in a saltwater tank.

00:50:38.000 And then you're looking around and you're trying to meditate as much as you can.

00:50:43.000 And then you're waiting.

00:50:44.000 You're in a hunting mode.

00:50:45.000 You're focusing on your prey to try to get it.

00:50:48.000 And then you have like five grizzly bears that are circling you. 1.00

00:50:51.000 You're trying to eat your ass. 1.00

00:50:52.000 Does that happen all the time? 1.00

00:50:53.000 I try to eat the fish.

00:50:54.000 Not you.

00:50:55.000 Do you get approached by sharks?

00:50:57.000 And the Bahamas, yeah.

00:50:59.000 And the Bahamas, they're pretty much always there.

00:51:01.000 There's a guy who just got bit in Texas.

00:51:05.000 He got bit by a bull shark, and now he has flesh-eating bacteria that's destroying his leg.

00:51:11.000 Apparently there's flesh-eating bacteria in the water. 0.99

00:51:13.000 We don't need to Google that.

00:51:14.000 That's a bad day. 0.95

00:51:15.000 It's pretty disgusting.

00:51:17.000 I got pretty bad encounters with sharks.

00:51:19.000 Yeah?

00:51:19.000 What happened?

00:51:20.000 My worst one was in Tampa, actually.

00:51:24.000 Something super easy.

00:51:25.000 It was in 15 feet of water and...

00:51:28.000 That's actually the danger of spearfishing is when you start getting cocky.

00:51:31.000 And you say like, oh, water's shallow.

00:51:33.000 It's fine.

00:51:34.000 We don't have to watch each other.

00:51:35.000 Everybody's doing their own thing, which is really bad.

00:51:37.000 Definitely never do this.

00:51:39.000 Yeah.

00:51:39.000 I got my lesson breakdown.

00:51:41.000 And I shot a little fish, so I clip it to the back of my gun.

00:51:45.000 And then this tiger shark come in.

00:51:48.000 And I'm like, ooh, tiger shark.

00:51:50.000 They're a little bit...

00:51:51.000 They can be...

00:51:52.000 They're aggressive.

00:51:52.000 Yeah.

00:51:53.000 They're not the nicest one you want to show up.

00:51:55.000 And then it was a juvenile one.

00:51:58.000 It was still a good, like, seven feet long.

00:52:01.000 Seven, yeah, about seven feet long.

00:52:03.000 But it was young.

00:52:05.000 And the young is really the one that you don't trust. 0.93

00:52:08.000 The big old sharks, you know, they're wiser.

00:52:11.000 They know.

00:52:11.000 They check you out and things like that.

00:52:13.000 But the young ones, they want it a little bit crazy.

00:52:15.000 So they're going to go more towards you and they're going to go try to do, like, curious bites, which is what happens most of the time with shark bites.

00:52:23.000 It's a curious bite.

00:52:26.000 And so the shark is in front of me and he's charging me with his mouth open.

00:52:32.000 So with my gun, I'm poking it.

00:52:34.000 I'm poking the eyes. 0.98

00:52:36.000 I'm poking the gills.

00:52:37.000 I'm poking the nose. 0.69

00:52:38.000 I'm trying to poke everything that's going to hurt him as much as I can.

00:52:41.000 And I'm not very strong, especially in the water. 0.99

00:52:43.000 So I'm really trying to bang this freaking gun as hard as I could in his face. 0.98

00:52:49.000 And he doesn't back down. 0.99

00:52:51.000 He keeps circling and he keeps coming in for me.

00:52:54.000 And at some point I'm like, okay, like something – I'm going to have to shoot it hoping that I'm not going to miss because if I miss, then it's the only thing between me and the shark.

00:53:06.000 So you're poking it with the tip.

00:53:08.000 Yeah, I'm just poking it with the tip.

00:53:09.000 And then you roll his eyes back.

00:53:11.000 Oh.

00:53:11.000 Which is when they're ready to bite.

00:53:14.000 And I'm like, oh, shit. 0.99

00:53:16.000 I'm like, I'm dying. 1.00

00:53:17.000 And I'm like, okay, well, whatever.

00:53:19.000 I'm like, okay, I'm going to try to aim and try to see if I can shoot it.

00:53:23.000 And then my friend arrives.

00:53:24.000 He's like, oh, I heard you screaming.

00:53:25.000 What's up?

00:53:26.000 Do you have a fish?

00:53:27.000 I'm like, there's a tiger behind you, buddy. 0.98

00:53:30.000 And he's like, oh crap!

00:53:32.000 My friend Felix from Montreal is like a 17-year-old at the time and he never rarely spearfished.

00:53:39.000 It was his first time he was seeing a shark.

00:53:40.000 I promised his parents I would bring him back in one piece.

00:53:43.000 Oh, Jesus.

00:53:44.000 I'm like, okay, don't panic.

00:53:45.000 Everything is fine.

00:53:46.000 How deep is the water?

00:53:48.000 Like 15 feet of water?

00:53:49.000 It was so shallow.

00:53:50.000 So I'm like, put your back against mine, and then cover your half, and if it comes too close, just poke it. 0.65

00:53:55.000 And the shark came in a couple of times, and because we were two, he was like, eh, whatever, and he just left.

00:54:00.000 He didn't like that, that he was outnumbered.

00:54:03.000 And I'm like, wow.

00:54:04.000 So when I was alone with the shark, I was screaming in the water, and I was like calling my friends for help, and then nobody could hear me.

00:54:11.000 And then we went back to the boat.

00:54:12.000 If you scream under the water, how far away can people hear you?

00:54:15.000 Not too far.

00:54:18.000 10 feet?

00:54:19.000 15 feet?

00:54:20.000 It depends on the wave again and the winds and everything like that.

00:54:22.000 But nobody could definitely hear me.

00:54:24.000 Then when I get back on the boat, I see my friend swimming towards the boat and he screams, Tiger shark! 1.00

00:54:29.000 I'm like, no shit, dumbass. 1.00

00:54:31.000 I've been screaming for your help for the past half an hour. 1.00

00:54:34.000 And then you get to the boat and we left and the shark was like circling.

00:54:37.000 It was like, ooh.

00:54:38.000 That was really scary.

00:54:40.000 But in that situation, again, if I had shot the shark, To save myself, I would have got the worst publicity ever.

00:54:53.000 That's one thing I don't understand.

00:54:56.000 When did that happen?

00:54:57.000 Where sharks became something that are protected in the public eye?

00:55:01.000 Because was it the governor of New York that killed that shark when he was fishing?

00:55:09.000 Someone, the governor, the mayor, one of those guys, was sport fishing, caught a shark, and was it the governor?

00:55:18.000 Cuomo.

00:55:19.000 Very common in the States, shark fishing.

00:55:21.000 They're edible.

00:55:22.000 I've had Mako shark in restaurants before.

00:55:24.000 But something happened, something changed, and I think it was when...

00:55:29.000 There was all this awareness about shark fin soup.

00:55:32.000 Yeah, there it is.

00:55:33.000 Andrew Cuomo.

00:55:34.000 He caught a 154 pound thresher shark and everybody freaked the fuck out.

00:55:39.000 It's when they realized that the Asians were catching millions a day to make shark fin soup. 1.00

00:55:46.000 Yeah, so it became, instead of it being something that was just another fish, then it became something that's protected and people with a very shallow understanding of what a shark is were freaking out about it.

00:55:59.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:56:00.000 The Asians ruined it for everybody else. 1.00

00:56:03.000 How dare you. 0.99

00:56:04.000 Be careful today. 0.99

00:56:06.000 Especially with crazy rich Asians, number one in the box office. 1.00

00:56:10.000 I mean, that practice of chopping off the fins and throwing the sharks back is horrific. 0.58

00:56:15.000 But there's sustainable populations of some sharks.

00:56:19.000 I mean, apparently off of the coast of California, near Catalina Island, the Channel Islands, a lot of mako sharks out there.

00:56:28.000 And then great whites.

00:56:30.000 Actually, the population of sharks right now in California is very high of great whites.

00:56:34.000 Yeah.

00:56:35.000 Because the seal population became really high, and then because, you know, the great white shark population takes more time to grow, now we're at a stage where there's shit tons of lionfish, and now there's a lot of great whites too.

00:56:48.000 But great whites are protected, right? 1.00

00:56:51.000 Yes.

00:56:51.000 Yes, definitely.

00:56:52.000 Are tiger sharks protected?

00:56:53.000 Yes.

00:56:54.000 Shires are protected in a lot of places.

00:56:56.000 In Florida, I don't think you're allowed to eat it.

00:57:00.000 Depends where.

00:57:01.000 Some marinas are very funny about it.

00:57:03.000 And New York.

00:57:04.000 I went to Pivishing in New York about a couple months ago and a guy was like cutting a mako on a dog and nobody seemed to be offended by it. 1.00

00:57:13.000 Well, people that are on the water, people that are fisher people, they wouldn't be offended.

00:57:18.000 It's the casual person on the outside that gets offended.

00:57:22.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:57:23.000 But again, you know, that's the double-edged sword of the internet.

00:57:27.000 You know, it gave a voice to everybody.

00:57:29.000 Exactly.

00:57:30.000 But it's just like, you know, remember that gorilla thing?

00:57:32.000 What was his name?

00:57:33.000 Karambe?

00:57:34.000 Yeah, people are like, oh, this is terrible.

00:57:37.000 They should have never shot the gorilla. 0.96

00:57:39.000 They should have shot the mother instead. 1.00

00:57:40.000 I'm like, what? 0.98

00:57:41.000 What?

00:57:41.000 We're saying when a surfer gets bitten by a shark, they're like, oh, it's his fault, it was in his territory, like, you shouldn't have, like, done anything to the shark.

00:57:48.000 I'm like, put your mother in that cage with that gorilla. 0.99

00:57:52.000 Then tell me which one you're going to shoot. 1.00

00:57:53.000 My money's not in the freaking... 0.99

00:57:55.000 My money's not on your mother. 0.97

00:57:56.000 It's probably going to be in the gorilla.

00:57:57.000 Yeah, I wish there was another way.

00:58:00.000 I mean, I don't know that they needed to shoot that gorilla.

00:58:02.000 I don't know enough about gorilla behavior.

00:58:04.000 I would like to think that the gorilla wouldn't have done anything to the baby, but I don't know anything.

00:58:08.000 I don't know much about this situation enough.

00:58:10.000 It's sad.

00:58:11.000 But if I have to choose a baby over a gorilla, I'm taking the baby every time.

00:58:14.000 I'm going to save the baby. 1.00

00:58:16.000 It's a fucking human. 1.00

00:58:18.000 Yeah, but it's easy to be irrational when it comes to that. 1.00

00:58:23.000 When it's not you and you don't have any stake in the game.

00:58:26.000 You're talking about it from the sidelines.

00:58:28.000 And that's people talking about sharks.

00:58:30.000 That's people talking about bears.

00:58:32.000 That's people talking about a lot of animals.

00:58:34.000 Yeah, pretty much.

00:58:35.000 And this is why spearfishing, hunting is very well hated, I guess, around the world.

00:58:43.000 I have friends that run a bear hunting operation in Alberta.

00:58:48.000 Shout out to John and Jen.

00:58:49.000 Saw them this weekend in Calgary.

00:58:51.000 They run a bear hunting operation.

00:58:54.000 They don't run a hunting operation, but they spend a good amount of time bear hunting.

00:58:58.000 Black bears.

00:58:59.000 And the black bear population up there is incredibly dense.

00:59:03.000 There's so many of them.

00:59:04.000 They're everywhere.

00:59:05.000 And they decimate the deer population.

00:59:07.000 They decimate the moose, the elk.

00:59:09.000 They eat all the babies. 0.99

00:59:10.000 And they cannibalize each other. 0.65

00:59:12.000 I mean, they're beautiful animals.

00:59:15.000 They're fascinating.

00:59:15.000 They're interesting.

00:59:16.000 I'm glad they're around.

00:59:18.000 But their populations need to be controlled.

00:59:20.000 There's a lot of them.

00:59:21.000 And they're delicious.

00:59:22.000 All these things fly in the face of reason for most people.

00:59:26.000 They think if you're shooting a bear that you're a trophy hunter like someone who's shooting a rhino or something like that.

00:59:32.000 Someone who's a terrible person who wants to shoot something that's endangered.

00:59:36.000 They are as far from endangered as is humanly possible.

00:59:39.000 They're not endangered by any stretch of the imagination.

00:59:41.000 They live in dense forests and there's a giant number of them and you can shoot two of them up there. 0.99

00:59:47.000 They encourage you to shoot two of them.

00:59:50.000 They're trying to thin out the population because of the effect they have on the undulates up there. 0.98

00:59:54.000 But it's one of those animals that my friend Steve Rinella calls them charismatic megafauna.

01:00:00.000 It's cute.

01:00:00.000 Yeah.

01:00:01.000 It's just we've made them into movie characters and TV show characters and people have this idea of what they are based on Just this sort of image that gets portrayed in the public and we accept this narrative.

01:00:16.000 And I think that's happening right now with sharks.

01:00:19.000 You know, no one wants sharks to go extinct.

01:00:21.000 I think sharks are awesome.

01:00:22.000 They're cool.

01:00:23.000 But they're also edible.

01:00:25.000 And if there's a lot of them, I've seen people catch mako sharks. 0.90

01:00:30.000 Off of the coast of California and and cut them up and make shark steaks up and eat them and it used to be normal No one cared until I feel like within the last decade Something happened in the last decade that people became incredibly outraged when someone kills a shark I Actually think that people became outraged when you kill anything But they're so hypocritical because they're killing things left and right with their pocketbook. 0.57

01:00:58.000 They just don't know it. 0.87

01:00:59.000 They're killing things with their credit card.

01:01:01.000 They're killing things with cash.

01:01:02.000 If you buy fish in the store, you're killing fish.

01:01:05.000 I don't care if you like to think you're not.

01:01:07.000 You are.

01:01:08.000 You're supporting the fish industry. 0.99

01:01:10.000 You're supporting the killing of these animals. 0.90

01:01:11.000 You're eating them. 0.99

01:01:12.000 It's a direct connection.

01:01:13.000 You're paying a supermarket hitman to go out and do the work for you.

01:01:16.000 100%.

01:01:17.000 If you eat fish, you cannot be against bear fishing.

01:01:19.000 If you eat meat, you cannot be against hunting.

01:01:22.000 But it's also the weirdness of it.

01:01:24.000 I went to Whole Foods today before I came here to get some lunch.

01:01:28.000 And as I'm walking through, just because I was thinking that I was going to have this conversation with you today.

01:01:32.000 And I'm walking by these long aisles of ice with these fish on it.

01:01:39.000 And I could just point to one of those fish and go, hey, give me that thing.

01:01:42.000 No connection whatsoever to where that thing came from, how it got there.

01:01:47.000 I just take it, and I could bring it here.

01:01:49.000 I probably should have, just for effect.

01:01:50.000 Just slap it down on the table.

01:01:53.000 Well, imagine the amount of grocery stores as a country with a fish display, which is completely full.

01:02:00.000 Well, let's just imagine in this area.

01:02:02.000 There's a Whole Foods that's about two miles up this way.

01:02:06.000 And then if we go down the street, there's another one.

01:02:08.000 There's a Sprouts.

01:02:09.000 They have a fish section.

01:02:10.000 Then we go a little bit further down, there's a Gelson's.

01:02:13.000 They have a big fish section.

01:02:16.000 There's just fish all over the place.

01:02:18.000 But the ocean's pretty fucking far from here.

01:02:21.000 I mean, you have to drive to get to the ocean, you know, and they're not going to the ocean and pulling these fish out themselves.

01:02:27.000 It's all coming from a giant commercial boat that distributes it all throughout Southern California, all throughout Northern California, all throughout.

01:02:35.000 Then you get into the middle of the country.

01:02:36.000 That's where it gets really crazy. 0.99

01:02:38.000 If you're buying halibut and you're in South Dakota, where the fuck is that coming from? 0.99

01:02:42.000 You know? 0.99

01:02:43.000 Alaska, probably.

01:02:44.000 Yeah, you're not supposed to eat halibut if you live there.

01:02:47.000 I completely agree.

01:02:49.000 You should be close.

01:02:51.000 You should be close, though.

01:02:52.000 I mean, I'm just kidding.

01:02:53.000 Eat out.

01:02:54.000 Go ahead.

01:02:54.000 Eat whatever you've got to eat.

01:02:56.000 But we're weird.

01:02:58.000 People are weird.

01:02:59.000 Yeah, but all of those boats, you know, they have...

01:03:02.000 I mean, the States is actually doing a way better job than a lot of countries.

01:03:06.000 I must admit, under control of fisheries.

01:03:09.000 But when I see laws and regulations on small little individual anglers or super fishermen...

01:03:17.000 Yeah.

01:03:17.000 And then I see a chihuahua that can catch everything he wants.

01:03:21.000 That's just, it's just pours my blood to a next level.

01:03:25.000 Well, it's insane.

01:03:27.000 And in our lifetime, the population has decreased radically.

01:03:31.000 And there's no better example than that than the Tokyo fish markets.

01:03:34.000 You know, the Tokyo fish markets, you interview those guys, and they talk about what it used to be like when they just, the amount of tuna that they used to deal with, and the amount they deal with now, it's a significant dip.

01:03:46.000 And this is within 40 years.

01:03:49.000 What is it going to be like 40 years from now?

01:03:51.000 And the estimates are that it's going to be a radical decrease in the population of almost all fish.

01:03:57.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:03:58.000 That's the problem.

01:03:59.000 People want to have access to everything now.

01:04:04.000 If we would put regulations on everybody's fish, it's like, okay, look everybody, I know you want your salmon, but it's going to be close of January to May.

01:04:13.000 I know you want your halibut, but you can't eat it this year.

01:04:17.000 We'll eat it next year.

01:04:18.000 If we would be willing to live with just...

01:04:20.000 I mean, I think people would survive it, that's for sure, because I don't think people would get used to pretty much anything.

01:04:25.000 But then the industry is worth so much money that they're not willing to do that.

01:04:30.000 It's not just the industry is worth so much money, it's that there's certain people in certain countries in particular where that is all they have.

01:04:37.000 I mean, there's certain people out there where they they're dependent upon the ocean and its bounty for their survival.

01:04:43.000 And if they can't sell fish and they can't buy fish, and we're talking about individual fisher people that have boats and, you know, are doing it on their own small scale commercial fishermen.

01:04:53.000 There's not a lot of room for error there.

01:04:55.000 They're not making a ton of money.

01:04:56.000 Those aren't a problem, though, like the small family commercial fishing boat.

01:05:01.000 They're not the problem.

01:05:03.000 I mean, when you see those guys bring in, you know, like the guy in the video earlier, yeah, he's catching a big net, he's catching quite a bit of fish.

01:05:12.000 The reality of things are ships, foreign ships, raiding the entire ocean with nets that are like kilometers long.

01:05:20.000 Yeah.

01:05:20.000 A net is a mile long.

01:05:25.000 Yeah.

01:05:25.000 And you just catch everything you can in it.

01:05:29.000 Dolphins, turtles.

01:05:31.000 Turtles, dolphins, sharks, everything.

01:05:34.000 Yeah.

01:05:34.000 And then it's not the freaking Johnson family that lives in North Carolina catching lobsters and then tuna that are making a problem.

01:05:44.000 But you would have to have some regulations that were accepted by all these different countries too.

01:05:49.000 And that would be a real difficult thing to pull off.

01:05:51.000 To get these countries to accept that they're going to lose money.

01:05:55.000 And to do it in a timely fashion where these fish could actually bounce back?

01:06:00.000 It's not going to happen until there's nothing left.

01:06:03.000 That's crazy.

01:06:04.000 Everybody sees it.

01:06:06.000 Everybody is talking about it.

01:06:09.000 When you look at the sheer size of the ocean, the idea that we could fish the ocean out is so crazy.

01:06:16.000 That's a lot of fish. 0.60

01:06:17.000 But when you see those commercial boats and how the quantity of fish they managed to take out of the ocean, it's a lot of fish.

01:06:25.000 Is there any talk about doing something about this?

01:06:29.000 Is there anything on the table?

01:06:30.000 Is there any discussion about regulating the amount of fish these gigantic boats can pull out?

01:06:36.000 Well, again, the U.S. is trying to regulate that, and they actually made efforts that proved to increase the amount of fish, so it's good.

01:06:46.000 They're actually working in the right direction.

01:06:48.000 But the problem is that still to this day, I'm not sure exactly how many Nautical Mali have to be, but a Russian or a Chinese foreigner trawler is allowed to fish from the coast of the United States.

01:07:04.000 And international water to just raid everything. 0.94

01:07:06.000 There's nothing you can do about it.

01:07:08.000 Who's gonna regulate that?

01:07:09.000 The UN? China's gonna be like, yeah, sure, buddy. 0.98

01:07:12.000 Yeah, I mean, look, Japan's still killing whales. 0.98

01:07:15.000 You know, they kill whales under the guise of science.

01:07:20.000 Have you seen how they do that?

01:07:21.000 The Sea Shepherd bust those guys?

01:07:23.000 Yes, how they pretended that it was for science. 0.99

01:07:25.000 Yeah, and then they kill them and sell them. 1.00

01:07:26.000 I mean, it's really fucked up. 0.99

01:07:28.000 You know, this same exact problem was going on in the United States in the 1800s. 0.98

01:07:33.000 Market hunting is what they were calling it, where they devastated all the wildlife in North America.

01:07:39.000 The buffalo population was almost brought to extinction levels.

01:07:44.000 Really close.

01:07:46.000 There's still some wild herds that exist in Mexico, and there were some of them that exist in the United States, and now they brought them back.

01:07:52.000 But to this day, the majority of buffalo that live in North America are all on private land, the majority of them.

01:08:00.000 But at one point in time, there's millions and millions of them all throughout the country.

01:08:05.000 Elk, they've only been...

01:08:08.000 Repopulated to a small percentage of their original range.

01:08:12.000 I think it's something like 30%.

01:08:13.000 There's some animals that have thrived like white-tailed deer because they live primarily in farmlands and farmlands have gotten so huge that they were essentially like farm animals now.

01:08:26.000 It's very strange.

01:08:27.000 Like when you think of white-tailed deer, the places where they're the most popular...

01:08:32.000 That's like Santa Claus tears, right?

01:08:34.000 No, that's actually reindeer. 0.60

01:08:36.000 That's a caribou.

01:08:37.000 Yeah, caribou are these migrating deer that live in Canada primarily and in Alaska.

01:08:44.000 And they migrate for hundreds and hundreds of miles in these massive herds.

01:08:48.000 They're very different in that, you know, unlike deer, you'll see them, like hundreds of them, moving together in one group, in one line across the tundra.

01:08:59.000 But these animals that were in North America, not Alaska, but the lower 48, they were wiped out almost to nothing.

01:09:09.000 Antelope, deer, elk, buffalo, they were almost all wiped out by market hunting because this is back when we didn't have refrigerators.

01:09:17.000 So people would shoot these things and bring them to market and people would go to market and buy that meat and they would bring it in on trucks.

01:09:24.000 I mean, I guess they just have blocks of ice and these trains and trucks and they would bring in this meat and they killed almost everything.

01:09:31.000 In a short amount of time, like less than 100 years, there was almost nothing left.

01:09:35.000 And then they instituted these laws where it was illegal to sell wild game.

01:09:39.000 So if you buy elk, like say in this country, if you buy elk meat, you're buying it from New Zealand.

01:09:46.000 Oh, so it's actually in force right now still?

01:09:48.000 Yeah.

01:09:48.000 There are some commercial farms.

01:09:52.000 I don't know what they sell.

01:09:54.000 I think you can sell commercially raised deer and elk in America, but if you go to a restaurant, most of what you're getting, you're actually getting from New Zealand.

01:10:03.000 Really?

01:10:04.000 Yeah.

01:10:04.000 But you can't go to the woods.

01:10:06.000 Like say if you went to the woods and you went and shot an elk like that one up there and you tried to sell, it's illegal to sell.

01:10:11.000 You can't sell that meat.

01:10:13.000 It's not a marketable product.

01:10:15.000 It's something that has to, you have to have a tag for it, you have to pay for the tag, and then it has to be for your own personal consumption or you can give it away to your friends, but you can't sell it.

01:10:24.000 Okay, which is not much of a bad thing.

01:10:26.000 It's the only way.

01:10:27.000 They had to eliminate market hunting.

01:10:29.000 It was the only way to bring these populations back.

01:10:30.000 And then they had to enforce these very strict conservation efforts.

01:10:34.000 And then here's the big one.

01:10:36.000 I think it's called the Pickman-Robertson app.

01:10:38.000 Whatever the Pickman-Robertson, is that it is?

01:10:41.000 That's the name of it?

01:10:44.000 What it is, is it takes 10% of all of the proceeds from hunting supplies and gear and puts it to wildlife conservation, which is an enormous amount of money, billions and billions of dollars.

01:10:56.000 So it goes to preserve habitat and wetlands.

01:10:59.000 It goes to reintroduce species into places where they had been decimated, like elk are now in viable numbers in places where they were completely extinct, like in Virginia, and I think Tennessee has them now as well.

01:11:14.000 Kentucky, I know, has them.

01:11:16.000 Pennsylvania has them.

01:11:17.000 And at one point in time, there was none there, like up until, you know, just a few decades ago.

01:11:23.000 If things actually handle In a responsible and smart way, there is a way to save everything.

01:11:31.000 The problem is this is the United States.

01:11:34.000 The United States is like, it's on land, it's controllable, it's within the boundaries of this one country.

01:11:46.000 The control is accepted.

01:11:48.000 When you're talking about the ocean, It would be really difficult to get other countries to agree to that kind of strict management that brought back wildlife in North America to do that to the ocean.

01:12:00.000 But if they did do that to the ocean, maybe everything could bounce back.

01:12:05.000 I mean, a few states, Florida is definitely one of them, where they're looking very closely to what's going on, and then they have close seasons and things like that.

01:12:14.000 And it actually makes a really nice and big difference.

01:12:16.000 But again, I think the problem is not coming from that.

01:12:19.000 The problem is coming from, again, like deep trawling and commercial, foreign commercial fishing.

01:12:25.000 What's a big industry in Florida?

01:12:27.000 It is.

01:12:27.000 Florida sport fishing is a giant industry.

01:12:30.000 People go there every year to grouper fish and fish for tarpon.

01:12:34.000 There's a lot of fishing in Florida, and it's probably a pretty significant part of their economy.

01:12:41.000 Yeah, I think I read somewhere that actually the number of jobs in recreational fishing was higher than in commercial fishing in the States.

01:12:51.000 Wow.

01:12:52.000 I believe I read that somewhere.

01:12:54.000 The number of jobs.

01:12:55.000 So the number of people that are employed.

01:12:57.000 So you create most jobs, yeah.

01:12:58.000 Right.

01:12:58.000 So like selling fishing rods and lures and guiding people on boats.

01:13:03.000 And charters and things like that, exactly.

01:13:05.000 Yeah, that kind of makes sense.

01:13:06.000 So the commercial...

01:13:08.000 Also, I mean, the biggest problem with commercial fishing is I went to...

01:13:12.000 I actually went to Taiwan last year, and I was helping them finding government and giving them a proposal on how they can change the law to make the fisheries better.

01:13:23.000 And they explained it to me, like, they have those ships, and they hired people from the Philippines or from Indonesia, and then they put them on a ship for six months.

01:13:32.000 They take their passport, and they're getting paid like...

01:13:34.000 Nothing.

01:13:36.000 Literally nothing.

01:13:37.000 And all they do all day long is they catch tuna, they catch tuna, they catch tuna, they catch tuna for like 14 hours a day.

01:13:42.000 And then that's it.

01:13:43.000 And they'll bring the tuna back and they sell it. 0.93

01:13:45.000 You know, the problem is people are fucking up so many different parts of the world so fast.

01:13:51.000 It's hard to like go, well, we got to really put it all aside and concentrate on the fish. 0.93

01:13:56.000 No, for sure.

01:13:58.000 Again, it's a lot of money and there's a lot of people depending on it.

01:14:02.000 But then at some point we're going to have to realize, hey, there's no fish.

01:14:05.000 So we're more people.

01:14:08.000 So we're going to have to turn ourselves on them.

01:14:12.000 But people are not going to change their ways or do anything unless they're being told, sorry, there's no more fish.

01:14:18.000 How long have you been doing this now?

01:14:20.000 Full time?

01:14:21.000 Yeah.

01:14:22.000 About three years.

01:14:23.000 And have you noticed a difference in three years?

01:14:27.000 Depends where, but yeah, some places definitely.

01:14:31.000 When I've been traveling, there's some places where I've been, and the third time or fourth time I was coming back, I could see there was even less and less fish.

01:14:39.000 Really?

01:14:39.000 The Mediterranean is a disaster.

01:14:42.000 Mediterranean is?

01:14:42.000 There's literally nothing left in that place.

01:14:44.000 What would happen?

01:14:45.000 And it's, again, that's another example where it's just been overfished for so many years.

01:14:50.000 They don't allow spearfishing there, but a commercial fishing boat is allowed to catch as many tuna as they want.

01:14:57.000 For tuna, I mean, spearfishing is legal.

01:15:00.000 Yeah, Anthony Dordain did something in Italy, and there were so little fish that they were actually throwing frozen fish into the water, like frozen octopus into the water, and they wanted him to pretend to catch these frozen octopus.

01:15:15.000 Instead, he made a mockery of it and showed the guy throwing the frozen fish into the water, frozen octopus into the water.

01:15:23.000 I'm not surprised.

01:15:24.000 If you catch a fish in Greece, you can sell it for like 100 euros.

01:15:28.000 Because there's no fish?

01:15:29.000 There's no fish.

01:15:29.000 There's definitely no fish.

01:15:31.000 But people won't change their ways until you tell them, sorry, you can't have your candy anymore.

01:15:35.000 And then they're going to be like, I guess I have to make an effort now. 1.00

01:15:39.000 Fuck. 1.00

01:15:39.000 So what would be the solution? 1.00

01:15:41.000 I mean, is there a way to commercially raise fish that's viable?

01:15:47.000 Like they do with the cattle industry?

01:15:49.000 Well, I'm actually going to the Marshall Islands in October, and I'm going to visit this...

01:15:55.000 The Marshall Islands?

01:15:56.000 The Marshall Islands.

01:15:57.000 Where are those?

01:15:58.000 That's the middle of the Pacific.

01:15:59.000 Another one.

01:16:00.000 You go in the middle of nowhere.

01:16:02.000 That's my thing.

01:16:04.000 Is it near Hawaii?

01:16:05.000 No, it's near Australia, I think, or something like that.

01:16:09.000 No, it's near Papua New Guinea.

01:16:13.000 Oh, wow.

01:16:13.000 That type of area.

01:16:14.000 You gotta be careful.

01:16:14.000 They eat people over there.

01:16:15.000 Oh, that's fine.

01:16:16.000 I don't have much meat.

01:16:19.000 I'm like the appetizer.

01:16:21.000 But they have...

01:16:22.000 So I'm going to visit a farm that is sustainable and everything.

01:16:27.000 If there's any New Guinea people listening, I'm joking around. 1.00

01:16:30.000 Don't get mad.

01:16:31.000 People get so outraged. 1.00

01:16:32.000 This motherfucker's calling us all cannibals. 1.00

01:16:36.000 Is that where it is? 1.00

01:16:37.000 Show me where it is again?

01:16:38.000 Right there where your arrow is?

01:16:40.000 Oh my god. 0.99

01:16:41.000 That is ridiculous. 0.99

01:16:43.000 Don't go there. 0.96

01:16:43.000 So they told me that they have a sustainable farm, so I'm going to visit it. 0.96

01:16:47.000 I'm going to see it.

01:16:48.000 You just have to be really careful because, again, if they leak into the ocean, then it contaminates other fish, and then if some of them escape, it creates problems.

01:16:55.000 What kind of problems does it create?

01:16:58.000 You can have a captive one, so basically it's going to infect the other fish.

01:17:01.000 Infect them with diseases?

01:17:02.000 Yeah, with diseases.

01:17:03.000 What kind of diseases do they get when they're in captivity?

01:17:05.000 They can get all sorts of stuff.

01:17:07.000 So it's a lot like captive animals, like avian flu and swine flu.

01:17:11.000 Yeah, pretty much. 0.97

01:17:12.000 Fucking great. 0.98

01:17:14.000 There were some stories about some really bad fish farms that are feeding them with pig stuff. 0.99

01:17:21.000 Again, it's all about being responsible.

01:17:24.000 We did a podcast recently about CWD. Quantic Wasting Disease is a disease that's spreading amongst deer in this country.

01:17:32.000 And they think a lot of it is coming, or some of it at least, is coming from deer farms.

01:17:37.000 They have these deer farms, and all these animals are eating off the same food, then they escape, and then they spread it, and then there's an incubation period.

01:17:45.000 I mean, it exists in the wild, and it exists in deer farms, so it's very complicated.

01:17:51.000 So they have a similar issue with fish then.

01:17:53.000 Yeah, they do actually.

01:17:55.000 And it's pretty bad, but it's...

01:17:56.000 What kind of diseases do they get? 0.94

01:18:00.000 I wouldn't know what type of disease they have.

01:18:03.000 I'm not very familiar with fish diseases, to be honest.

01:18:06.000 What is that term?

01:18:08.000 Some fish have cancer.

01:18:10.000 It's bad.

01:18:11.000 What is the term zoonotic?

01:18:13.000 Is that the term?

01:18:14.000 When it leaves and makes the jump to humans?

01:18:18.000 The diseases?

01:18:19.000 Are there any?

01:18:20.000 Yeah, that's what like avian flu is and swine flu.

01:18:24.000 It's a disease that makes it jump to humans. 0.73

01:18:26.000 Is there any diseases in fish that make the jump to humans?

01:18:30.000 Apart from parasites, it's the only thing it can take off that human can actually get.

01:18:34.000 And parasites are pretty rare with ocean fish, right?

01:18:37.000 It's more common with freshwater fish?

01:18:38.000 There's worms.

01:18:39.000 We can see worms sometimes, but you just discard them and then it's fine.

01:18:42.000 They're not going to kill you.

01:18:43.000 They're just going to taste a little funky.

01:18:45.000 Ew.

01:18:46.000 Do you've eaten worms that came out of fish?

01:18:48.000 For sure, right?

01:18:49.000 You must have.

01:18:50.000 Probably.

01:18:50.000 I just probably don't know it.

01:18:52.000 When I cut the fish raw, I cut it pretty small, so I make sure that there's nothing in it.

01:18:56.000 So you look to see the worms?

01:18:57.000 Yeah, you can see them.

01:18:59.000 How much worm can you get in your body to where it starts growing?

01:19:02.000 Take a little slice?

01:19:05.000 I'm not going to try.

01:19:06.000 Do you know?

01:19:07.000 But no.

01:19:09.000 When you cook the fish, they're all dead.

01:19:12.000 If you freeze it, that's why a lot of people freeze their sashimi before eating it.

01:19:15.000 Yeah, they try to do that with pigs and a lot of animals in this country, too.

01:19:19.000 But there's two types of trichinosis, apparently. 0.99

01:19:22.000 Maybe there's more, but there's two very specific kinds of trichinosis.

01:19:25.000 One, that if you freeze, it'll die.

01:19:28.000 And this is trichinosis that comes from an animal that's from the southwest of the United States.

01:19:32.000 Okay.

01:19:33.000 But then there's trichinosis that comes from animals that's in the northern territories, in Canada in particular, like bears, Alaska, and that stuff.

01:19:41.000 You could freeze it.

01:19:42.000 It doesn't matter.

01:19:42.000 It doesn't even kill it when you freeze it.

01:19:44.000 Yeah.

01:19:45.000 So you have to cook it.

01:19:46.000 It has to be cooked to, I think it's 160 degrees.

01:19:51.000 147 to 160 is a recommended temperature. 1.00

01:19:54.000 You have to kill those little fuckers. 1.00

01:19:58.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:19:59.000 Otherwise, it just gets into your muscle tissue.

01:20:01.000 I have some friends that caught it.

01:20:03.000 It's horrific.

01:20:03.000 Oh, that's bad.

01:20:04.000 Yeah, your whole body's in pain because it's literally they're burrowing their way into your body.

01:20:10.000 I don't think you have something that bad in fish.

01:20:13.000 I mean, maybe that's why I'm skinny.

01:20:14.000 Who knows?

01:20:15.000 He's got a tapeworm.

01:20:17.000 Maybe that's why.

01:20:18.000 Well, maybe you're just eating fish all the time.

01:20:20.000 It's probably pretty lean stuff.

01:20:22.000 Yeah, true.

01:20:22.000 But also, freediving, when you go spearfishing, you burn about between 1,000 and I think 1,300 calories an hour.

01:20:30.000 What?

01:20:31.000 So if you want to lose weight, go spearfishing.

01:20:32.000 Really?

01:20:33.000 Yeah.

01:20:34.000 1,300 calories an hour?

01:20:35.000 That's incredible.

01:20:36.000 It's very, very intense.

01:20:38.000 Wow, that's amazing!

01:20:40.000 You would think a lot of people are listening to this like, I could eat so much food.

01:20:45.000 I'll just go free diving.

01:20:46.000 But you also don't eat food, which is...

01:20:48.000 What's that, Jamie?

01:20:49.000 The Marshall Islands?

01:20:50.000 Oh, Jesus, that's where they blew that thing up.

01:20:52.000 We've shown that a million times.

01:20:54.000 That's the crazy nuclear bomb testing area. 1.00

01:20:58.000 That is the nuttiest shit ever. 0.99

01:21:00.000 You see that as miles high water spraying up into the sky. 0.99

01:21:04.000 So maybe the fish are going to have like three eyes or something.

01:21:07.000 Oh yeah, you're going to have fish that can read your mind.

01:21:10.000 They're going to know you're coming.

01:21:14.000 What are you spearfishing for in the Marshall Islands?

01:21:16.000 I'm not going to be spearfishing.

01:21:17.000 I'm just going to be visiting a farm and see what they're doing.

01:21:20.000 So it's kind of good.

01:21:21.000 I have a lot of people asking me for alternatives and what it can do and what it can eat.

01:21:27.000 And so this is one of the possible alternatives that they have in these farms.

01:21:31.000 Yes, exactly.

01:21:31.000 So I'm going to check it out and make sure that it's all legit and then...

01:21:35.000 Is it possible that they could reintroduce fish into the ocean, like stock the ocean?

01:21:40.000 Because that's what they do with some lakes.

01:21:42.000 Like, I used to go fishing at this lake in Boston, and they restock it every year with rainbow trout.

01:21:50.000 Yeah, that's true.

01:21:51.000 Actually, my lake, when my parents have a country house, they do that too and it works.

01:21:56.000 The only problem I would see with that for like an ocean fish would be, I'm thinking because they never had predators in captivity, that that may be, it might have a survival problem after that.

01:22:10.000 But maybe they can learn it.

01:22:12.000 I don't know.

01:22:13.000 Yeah, the strong and smart survive.

01:22:16.000 I mean, it's still better that if, you know, if they put 10,000, if 2,000 survive, it's still good.

01:22:21.000 It's better than nothing.

01:22:22.000 It's still 2,000, yeah.

01:22:23.000 Yeah, I wonder what it would have to do.

01:22:26.000 I wonder if it's even possible to restock something as big as the ocean.

01:22:31.000 It's just being fished so quickly.

01:22:34.000 And that's the biggest problem.

01:22:36.000 But there are solutions.

01:22:39.000 It's just people have to be willing to talk about it.

01:22:42.000 And right now, that's the biggest problem.

01:22:44.000 With the same situation as with the Wall Street Journal, when people are trying to talk about food searching and mentioning alternatives.

01:22:52.000 But like, no, no, no, no.

01:22:53.000 They're like, we don't eat fish.

01:22:54.000 We don't eat seafood.

01:22:55.000 No, no, no, that's not true.

01:22:56.000 And Don't you think that it's the optics, though?

01:22:58.000 I mean, what they're concerned with is not...

01:23:01.000 It's not that it's rational.

01:23:03.000 It's that they don't want any controversy.

01:23:05.000 That's what it is.

01:23:07.000 So a person like you, although what you're doing is if you explain it and you look at it objectively, it's very rational.

01:23:14.000 But they're not trying to be rational.

01:23:16.000 What they're trying to do is avoid any conflict.

01:23:18.000 Like, there was a guy...

01:23:20.000 Who is a NASCAR driver, okay?

01:23:22.000 And he lost a sponsor recently for some racist stuff that his father said 30 years ago.

01:23:31.000 This is how crazy people are getting.

01:23:32.000 30 years ago, his father used a racial slur. 0.96

01:23:37.000 And because of that, this guy, who wasn't even alive when this happened, or maybe he was alive, maybe he was seven years old or some shit, He lost a sponsor. 0.96

01:23:52.000 I mean, it's one of the Companies are such cowards like they're so terrified because of social media because people are so willing to protest and There's a bunch of fuckheads out there that just get a thrill off of getting people fired and of getting things canceled and of like Exercising action and seeing a result all they're doing is pushing buttons It's not that they've thought about this and like hey is this guy really responsible should we really? 0.98

01:24:20.000 Blame him for something his father did 30 years ago. 0.99

01:24:23.000 That's ridiculous. 0.98

01:24:24.000 What we should do is nothing. 0.93

01:24:26.000 Just let it go.

01:24:27.000 I mean, unless this guy is like some sort of white supremacist or some racist himself, and he's not.

01:24:34.000 We should just do nothing, but that's not that doesn't that's not fun.

01:24:38.000 What's fun is Getting a rush a power trip out of action Like clearly there should like if you find a real racist something someone who's doing something actively to harm other people Simply based on their ethnic origin or the color of their skin.

01:24:54.000 Yeah, that's terrible You should talk out about that.

01:24:56.000 That should be eliminated from our society real real racism But that's not what this is. 0.99

01:25:02.000 What this is is people deciding that they're going to take action and then NASCAR being a pussy about it or this company being a pussy about it. 0.99

01:25:11.000 And that's the same thing that's happening with you. 0.99

01:25:14.000 This is not a rational decision.

01:25:16.000 They should look at it and go, wow, what an interesting way to get your fish.

01:25:20.000 How many of these people that made this decision actually eat fish?

01:25:23.000 I would bet it's most.

01:25:25.000 I would bet it's most.

01:25:26.000 People should understand also that by refraining people, To talk about it, you're being part of the problem.

01:25:34.000 Yes.

01:25:34.000 This is why things have been so bad for so many years because nobody wants to talk about it.

01:25:40.000 They all want to eat it.

01:25:42.000 They just don't want to know where it's from.

01:25:43.000 But no one's looking at things long term.

01:25:45.000 Of course not.

01:25:46.000 Potential short-term income loss.

01:25:48.000 So with the Wall Street Journal or the Washington Post or whatever paper it is, what they're worried about, they're worried that someone's going to come along and say, the Wall Street Journal supports...

01:25:59.000 Is it Wall Street Journal?

01:26:00.000 Yeah.

01:26:01.000 The Wall Street Journal supports mass extinction of fish.

01:26:06.000 They just reframe it in some outrageous, unrealistic, non-accurate way.

01:26:12.000 Well, people need to chill out, too.

01:26:14.000 I think, like, I understand where they come from in the sense that Especially like the millennials or whatever.

01:26:22.000 We're all born when, you know, we had a bunch of toys from China. 0.98

01:26:24.000 Nobody used a shit about that. 0.99

01:26:26.000 We ate whatever we want. 1.00

01:26:27.000 Nobody used a shit about that. 0.99

01:26:28.000 We had freaking processed food. 0.99

01:26:30.000 Nobody cared about it. 0.80

01:26:31.000 We had hot dogs and nobody ever said anything about it.

01:26:33.000 And then we all reached like our mid-20s and all of a sudden we're being told about everybody.

01:26:38.000 Oh, by the way, you know everything like all your Barbies, they're very bad for the environment.

01:26:42.000 Oh, you know what?

01:26:43.000 By the way, like the hot dogs you've been eating, they're very bad for the environment.

01:26:46.000 And you're like, we live in an era where we're being told that everything we're doing is wrong.

01:26:51.000 And it's hard.

01:26:52.000 It's hard for somebody that lives in the middle of the city that doesn't know anything else to be like, oh, yeah, you know what?

01:26:58.000 It's true.

01:26:58.000 I'm going to stop eating this that I've been eating for the last 20 years just because somebody told me so.

01:27:02.000 Somebody had a very funny tweet about Starbucks.

01:27:07.000 Do you know California eliminated straws?

01:27:10.000 Yeah.

01:27:11.000 And Starbucks had this whole thing about, you know, a big sign about how, you know, we're doing our part for the environment, we're eliminating straws, and then on the tweet it said, okay, so you're just putting plastic lids on your coffee cups?

01:27:28.000 Yeah, and what happens with them?

01:27:30.000 And then Starbucks, it said, oh, dot, dot, dot. 0.99

01:27:34.000 I'm like, Like, you're not fucking, you're not fixing shit just because you get rid of the straws. 0.99

01:27:39.000 You got plastic lids everywhere you go. 1.00

01:27:42.000 Those goddamn Starbucks lids are littered on the street. 1.00

01:27:44.000 They're everywhere. 1.00

01:27:45.000 But this is a perfect example because it shows exactly this.

01:27:49.000 They did a little bit of action.

01:27:50.000 People are like, they have either a very small action that makes them feel better or they like to point out the fingers of somebody else.

01:27:58.000 Yes, you with your straw.

01:28:00.000 Exactly. 0.99

01:28:01.000 You're evil if you have a straw now.

01:28:03.000 It's just the way people are dealing with that.

01:28:06.000 They're being told that everything they've been doing since their kids are bad.

01:28:09.000 So now they're like...

01:28:10.000 No, but look at her.

01:28:12.000 She's spearfishing. 0.99

01:28:13.000 She's evil. 1.00

01:28:14.000 You're like, what?

01:28:17.000 I think it's that.

01:28:18.000 I think it's the way that people are handling the fact that they're being told that everything is wrong, that they're trying to be like, no, I made my effort.

01:28:26.000 I made a Facebook post this morning saying that I wasn't getting straw, so I'm green.

01:28:32.000 California seeks to be the first state to limit plastic straws.

01:28:36.000 Like all restaurants.

01:28:37.000 Wow.

01:28:38.000 Yeah.

01:28:39.000 It hasn't passed, but it's been proposed.

01:28:43.000 Governor Jerry Brown.

01:28:45.000 How can it be so difficult to be like, look, plastic is a problem.

01:28:50.000 You use something else.

01:28:53.000 You know, one thing that they...

01:28:54.000 I don't know where...

01:28:55.000 Maybe I saw this on your page.

01:28:56.000 Did I find this on your page?

01:28:58.000 That there's a new invention that they use for water runoff before it goes into the ocean.

01:29:05.000 It's this giant net that catches all these plastic particles.

01:29:08.000 Was that on your Instagram page?

01:29:09.000 No.

01:29:10.000 It's really interesting.

01:29:12.000 Someone has invented this cover that's like a filter that as the water's going through, it catches all the stuff that would ordinarily be washed out to sea.

01:29:23.000 And so it basically, over these storm drainage pipes, these enormous pipes, is this huge net.

01:29:28.000 So the water can still go through it, but it just shows you this insane amount of water.

01:29:34.000 Debris and garbage that would have ordinarily just been washed out to sea, and they're catching it in these nets.

01:29:40.000 It's not everything, but it's a start. 0.97

01:29:42.000 It's not going to make up for the fucking cruise ship that's dumping things just right offshore. 0.98

01:29:48.000 It's crazy. 0.99

01:29:48.000 I did not know that that was the case. 0.99

01:29:50.000 Yeah, it's legal, too.

01:29:53.000 And that's the worst part of it.

01:29:55.000 But...

01:29:57.000 But you can't spearfish.

01:29:59.000 But you can't spearfish because I'm the bad guy.

01:30:02.000 So what you want to do is you want to spearfish and you want to raise awareness and you want to continue to live this life.

01:30:09.000 So what you're trying to do along the way is trying to figure out how to make a living while you're doing it and where to live.

01:30:17.000 I'm going to want to write a book at some point.

01:30:21.000 Do you mind if I ask you how old you are?

01:30:22.000 I'm 31. So this is an age where people are like, oh Jesus, you're in your 30s, you should have your shit together by now. 0.99

01:30:30.000 That's what a lot of people think. 0.68

01:30:32.000 You're in that area where you should have your career in order, you should think about settling down, having a family, you should start your 401k, and you should have all this stuff in line, and you're out there...

01:30:43.000 Fishing.

01:30:44.000 Stabbing fish.

01:30:46.000 No, I don't mind that.

01:30:47.000 I don't think my age is an issue.

01:30:50.000 I don't think it's an issue either.

01:30:52.000 I'm just saying that in the path from graduating high school to going to college to becoming a person that's 31 years old, I mean, a lot of people compare themselves In a very sort of foolish way, they compare themselves with other people like how much stuff have these people accumulated?

01:31:11.000 How much have I? But for me it was a crucial step of my life to be able to take a step back.

01:31:17.000 I want to take a step back of all of that and be like, okay, whoa, whoa, whoa.

01:31:21.000 I've been telling The same thing since I'm born about what I should want, about what I should do, about what was expected of me.

01:31:30.000 People have been telling you that.

01:31:31.000 Exactly.

01:31:32.000 When I was seven years old, I look at my mom and I said, you know, mom, when I grow up, I'd rather have a job that I don't like when I make a shit ton of money than a job I love when I make nothing.

01:31:43.000 I was seven.

01:31:44.000 I told that to my mother.

01:31:46.000 And my mom was like, what did I do wrong here?

01:31:49.000 Well, that's a rational thought with kids.

01:31:51.000 And then when I quit my job, then my mom was the one being like, why are you doing that? 1.00

01:31:55.000 You have no security in life and blah, blah, blah.

01:31:57.000 And I'm like, well, sorry.

01:31:58.000 It's good.

01:31:59.000 I need a step back.

01:32:01.000 I need to look at everything around me.

01:32:03.000 I need to look at society.

01:32:04.000 I need to look at how things work.

01:32:06.000 And I want to make sure that when I'm in it, it's because I actually know what I want.

01:32:13.000 Yeah.

01:32:14.000 And I don't like being told to do.

01:32:16.000 Right.

01:32:17.000 So that's kind of what I'm doing.

01:32:19.000 I'm figuring out my own things.

01:32:20.000 I'm figuring out what's important for me and what my real values are.

01:32:23.000 And I don't think you can discover the person you really are by staying in your 9 to 5, by not knowing anything and being unhappy and not being able to go outside of your comfort zone.

01:32:35.000 Right.

01:32:35.000 Comfort zone is the big word, right?

01:32:36.000 Because it's comforting that you get that check every week.

01:32:39.000 It is.

01:32:39.000 But ultimately, it's numbing.

01:32:42.000 You have kids, you have this and that, but it's people that tell me like, oh, you're so courageous to have done that.

01:32:48.000 Or, oh, I envy your life so much.

01:32:51.000 I'm like, well, when I first quit my job, I lived in my freaking car for a while because I didn't have a place to stay and neither no money to sustain myself.

01:32:58.000 Did you really live in your car?

01:32:59.000 Yeah, I did for a while.

01:33:00.000 How long?

01:33:01.000 About a month, something like that.

01:33:04.000 It was like sporadic in my car.

01:33:06.000 Did you just smell?

01:33:06.000 Or did you shower somewhere?

01:33:07.000 No, no, I had friends, so I was like showering.

01:33:10.000 There's also beaches, showers on the beach.

01:33:13.000 Wow, when that was happening, how old were you at the time?

01:33:17.000 23 years ago, so 20...

01:33:20.000 So you're 28. 28, yeah.

01:33:21.000 And you were like, what the fuck am I doing with my life? 0.98

01:33:24.000 I'm living in my car. 0.98

01:33:25.000 Yeah, but I have...

01:33:26.000 I'm a lawyer.

01:33:26.000 Yeah, but I felt free and I never regretted my life and that's what...

01:33:30.000 Well, you are courageous if that's the case because a lot of people would panic, me included.

01:33:36.000 It's...

01:33:37.000 I guess you encourage this in a way regarding like the fact that you're sleeping in a car.

01:33:42.000 Yeah.

01:33:42.000 But if you're unhappy with your life, why keep going with it?

01:33:47.000 Well, that's...

01:33:47.000 What you're saying is logical, right?

01:33:49.000 But logic is not how most people live their lives.

01:33:53.000 What you're saying is like you're...

01:33:56.000 It's romantic.

01:33:57.000 Like you're saying I want to live my life with passion and I want to follow my interests and I don't mind living in my car and showering at the beach.

01:34:05.000 I don't mind.

01:34:07.000 I'm fine with that.

01:34:08.000 Most people are not fine with that.

01:34:10.000 Most people would be insecure and they would be scared of the future and they would want some sort of stability and that's what's courageous about your decision because One of the things that, like, I was talking to people about you before I did this podcast,

01:34:26.000 and the question from everybody is like, how does she make a living?

01:34:29.000 I'm like, I don't know.

01:34:30.000 I'm not sure.

01:34:31.000 I'm like, I guess she's this professional spearfisher person.

01:34:35.000 I go, but I don't know how you make money doing that.

01:34:37.000 I'm like, maybe you guide people, take people out.

01:34:40.000 Sometimes, very rarely.

01:34:41.000 I'm a freediving instructor too, so I only give private lessons.

01:34:45.000 I'm a freediving instructor too, so I give lessons once in a while.

01:34:50.000 I have contracts here and there.

01:34:52.000 Right now, I reached a point where I'm not rich, but I'm not starving either.

01:34:56.000 Right.

01:34:57.000 And I'm happy about it, and I actually do believe it's going to lead to something.

01:35:03.000 What would it lead to?

01:35:05.000 To a job that I think is going to be, you know, I started giving conferences around and I think that's something that really, really interests me.

01:35:13.000 Conferences?

01:35:13.000 Yeah.

01:35:14.000 Like this women's empowerment thing that you were going to talk? 0.90

01:35:16.000 Yeah, pretty much. 0.99

01:35:17.000 Just without all the shit going behind it. 0.99

01:35:20.000 Well, that was just one. 0.98

01:35:22.000 And I'm sure, look, people love a story about someone who's following their passion because there's so many people out there that really desperately want to do that.

01:35:32.000 They just don't know how to do it or how to get the courage to do it.

01:35:34.000 Or they get stuck with a mortgage or maybe they have a family and responsibilities or maybe they have loved ones that are taken care of and they can't. 1.00

01:35:43.000 And so when they hear about someone who's going for it, Either they're jealous of you and they hate on it and they say, that's stupid, that girl's a fool, blah, blah, blah. 1.00

01:35:51.000 Or they go, God, I wish I could do that. 0.99

01:35:53.000 Those are the two, depending upon the mindset of the person that's watching you, that's going to be their reaction.

01:35:59.000 I completely agree.

01:36:00.000 Well, I have a TV show coming on.

01:36:02.000 I have my cookbook coming on.

01:36:03.000 What's the TV show?

01:36:04.000 I have...

01:36:05.000 It's going to be in French, but it's about...

01:36:08.000 I'm going to be traveling around the world and fishing with...

01:36:11.000 I'm not even sure I'm going to talk about that.

01:36:13.000 Whoops.

01:36:14.000 Whoops.

01:36:15.000 It's a TV show.

01:36:16.000 It's going to be fun.

01:36:16.000 And I'm starting with...

01:36:18.000 My sister just graduated from fashion design in London.

01:36:21.000 And we're just starting a bathing suit company with recycled fabric.

01:36:27.000 Oh, okay.

01:36:29.000 I have a few things in my pipeline.

01:36:30.000 I don't like being bored.

01:36:31.000 I know it seems like it, like I'm free-spirited and I travel around, but I'm still a very ambitious person and I do want to achieve things that are going to make me proud.

01:36:42.000 It's not always, you know, it's not...

01:36:44.000 I didn't quit everything to become a hippie and live on the beach and wear no shoes the rest of my life.

01:36:49.000 No, I just, I quit my job to live and build my life and my career the way I wanted to and in a way that was making me proud and happy.

01:36:59.000 So this is pretty much what I'm doing right now.

01:37:02.000 It's very admirable.

01:37:03.000 It really is.

01:37:05.000 And it is really brave.

01:37:06.000 Thank you.

01:37:07.000 Because you're not going to get a whole lot of reinforcement from other people.

01:37:10.000 I'm sure you probably didn't.

01:37:12.000 There probably weren't a lot of people that were telling you, you go for it, girl.

01:37:15.000 Go sleep at the beach.

01:37:18.000 Stay in your car.

01:37:19.000 Yeah, you don't have a shower?

01:37:20.000 Who needs a shower? 1.00

01:37:22.000 You don't know where your food's coming from?

01:37:23.000 Who cares?

01:37:25.000 But there's also a group of people who are like, oh yeah, this is a good idea. 1.00

01:37:28.000 And then the second you turn around, they're like, oh my god, this is so stupid. 1.00

01:37:31.000 Well, that's just humans. 1.00

01:37:32.000 People love to talk shit. 0.99

01:37:34.000 But even in my hardest moments when I was broke or anything like that, I never regretted it. 0.99

01:37:40.000 Not one second I told myself I made the wrong decision.

01:37:44.000 So I guess it's a good sign.

01:37:45.000 Well, the good thing is you were doing something that's so soul-sucking.

01:37:49.000 Yep.

01:37:51.000 That anything seems like it's worth it. 0.99

01:37:55.000 I really found myself in situations when I was like, ooh, I'm actually an asshole. 0.98

01:37:59.000 I was like, okay, I'm going to have to work on that. 0.98

01:38:01.000 As a lawyer?

01:38:02.000 No, even like in this life, you know, especially when, you know, filming a documentary in Africa or in different places.

01:38:10.000 Well, you know, you have no food and you, like, have a table with people and we're sharing, like, a can of tuna between four people and you're like, like, yeah, let's share.

01:38:19.000 I'm happy to share.

01:38:20.000 And you're just like, I just want to, like, push in the ground and run away with a can of tuna.

01:38:23.000 Right.

01:38:26.000 You're discovering yourself.

01:38:27.000 Yeah.

01:38:27.000 And sometimes you don't always like what you see.

01:38:31.000 But it's good.

01:38:32.000 It's what it's for, you know?

01:38:33.000 You look at yourself and then...

01:38:35.000 I would never discover the type of person I am when I'm starving on a nine-to-five job.

01:38:40.000 Unless you're starving, right.

01:38:41.000 Exactly.

01:38:42.000 How many people ever are, right?

01:38:44.000 Definitely not that many.

01:38:46.000 And again, that was the thing that shocked me the most.

01:38:48.000 And I think it's also what touches people the most about Africa as being one of them.

01:38:56.000 People are super close with each other.

01:38:58.000 People are really nice and you're really focusing on the nice things.

01:39:01.000 You're like, wow, I want that.

01:39:03.000 I want to keep doing that.

01:39:04.000 But then you spend your month there and then you spend a month in New York City and you forget everything.

01:39:09.000 It takes literally a week to forget everything.

01:39:12.000 You know, another hard thing would be if you tried to relay your experiences on a television show, it would be edited down to, even if it's a one-hour show, with commercials, it becomes 44 minutes.

01:39:25.000 And you're just not going to be able to get all that.

01:39:30.000 They know that.

01:39:31.000 It would be very hard.

01:39:32.000 I told them that I was not interested in doing anything scripted, and I told them If I want to do a TV show, if I'm puking, I want it there.

01:39:42.000 If I'm crying, I want it there.

01:39:45.000 If I hate it, if I'm crying for my mommy to come pick me up, I want it there too.

01:39:49.000 Because I think that's the beauty part about those travels and that's what needs to be shown, I think.

01:39:57.000 Yeah.

01:40:11.000 You know, it's like such bad actors.

01:40:14.000 You see it in their face.

01:40:15.000 You could smell it when they're acting.

01:40:17.000 It's just like, whoa.

01:40:18.000 True.

01:40:18.000 But that was the beauty of the Anthony Burnet show, actually.

01:40:21.000 It was all about...

01:40:22.000 But he wouldn't do that.

01:40:23.000 I mean, that's why when they threw the frozen octopus in the water, he was mocking them.

01:40:28.000 Exactly.

01:40:29.000 I mean, I understand why a lot of people see that in me.

01:40:32.000 I'm a girl and sometimes I'm a little bit girly and things like that.

01:40:36.000 And people are like, oh, all she wants is to be in a TV show and do this and do that. 1.00

01:40:41.000 I get why people would think that, but if you pass five minutes with me, you're going to realize it's not that at all.

01:40:48.000 I also think what you're trying to do is relay your passion for something.

01:40:54.000 I've struggled with that with bow hunting because I've done some things on camera.

01:40:59.000 I did a film last year for Under Armour where we went elk hunting.

01:41:04.000 But part of me is like...

01:41:06.000 Not everything should just be broadcast.

01:41:09.000 Not everything should be filmed.

01:41:10.000 Sometimes life should just be experienced.

01:41:12.000 Especially for someone like me who's...

01:41:13.000 I think I'm overexposed in the first place.

01:41:17.000 I would be better off doing less things publicly.

01:41:20.000 So that's one that I've decided to do less of publicly.

01:41:24.000 But part of me wants people to know...

01:41:27.000 That there's a satisfaction to, like bow hunting in particular, is very, very difficult.

01:41:32.000 It's very hard to do.

01:41:33.000 It takes intense practice.

01:41:35.000 It takes a lot of physical exercise.

01:41:38.000 You have to be able to run up the hills.

01:41:40.000 You have to have endurance because you're climbing through the mountains all the time.

01:41:43.000 And then it's hard to do.

01:41:45.000 It's hard to find the animals.

01:41:46.000 It's hard to get close enough to shoot one.

01:41:49.000 You have to be able to execute when the moment is there.

01:41:52.000 It's very difficult to shoot an animal with a bow and arrow, especially long distance.

01:41:57.000 I mean, you have to have an extreme amount of proficiency before you can ever pull that off under high-stress situations.

01:42:03.000 So part of me wants to relay that there's a misconception about what people see.

01:42:07.000 When they think of hunting, they think of cruelty, and they think of someone who doesn't respect nature, and they think of this...

01:42:20.000 Abusive relationship that humans have with animals instead of the way I look at it Which is you have this deep understanding of the food chain and this food chain exists whether you're there or not this food chain exists with Bears and wolves and mountain lions and deer and elk and all these animals are struggling for survival and all you do is Is interject.

01:42:44.000 You step in for a little bit and you take your part in the food chain and in turn you also give out all this money that goes to conservation.

01:42:54.000 This money that goes to conservation ensures that this opportunity be there for other hunters in the future and ensures that the populations of these animals will stay healthy and it ensures that they'll be monitored By the proper fish and game and wildlife biologists and all these different people that are going to ensure that this environment and this experience is preserved.

01:43:15.000 And the wild habitat that these animals enjoy will be preserved.

01:43:20.000 And for people, it's very conflicting.

01:43:24.000 For people, it seems almost hypocritical that you could say that you love these animals, but you also want to eat them.

01:43:31.000 Yeah, but that's that's not what's what's what's what's the hybrid thing to do is to say that you love them and then buy them for grocery store not caring how they got there. 0.99

01:43:41.000 Yeah, that's when you're being ridiculous.

01:43:44.000 What's the problem is that's been available for so long. 0.98

01:43:48.000 We're used to it.

01:43:49.000 Like if there was just a machine that you could go to where you could just get your money from this machine.

01:43:53.000 You talk to somebody about hunting and then they put their finger in the ears and they're like, oh, I don't want to hear anything.

01:43:58.000 And you're like, what?

01:44:00.000 Well, it's the same way the Wall Street Journal approached you with fishing, spearfishing.

01:44:06.000 It's the same thing.

01:44:07.000 It's not a well-thought-out, rational argument.

01:44:10.000 They're worried about outrage.

01:44:12.000 And in this day and age, it's very easy.

01:44:15.000 I had a picture I put up the other day of a Target that I have in my backyard with some arrows in it, and all these vegans are attacking me. 1.00

01:44:22.000 For shooting a fucking target. 1.00

01:44:24.000 That's crazy. 1.00

01:44:25.000 I mean, they know I'm practicing. 0.99

01:44:26.000 I'm getting ready to shoot animals. 0.73

01:44:28.000 But all they're doing is... 0.97

01:44:30.000 There's no animal there. 1.00

01:44:31.000 It's a fucking rubber elk. 0.99

01:44:33.000 And they're getting angry. 1.00

01:44:35.000 Because that's what people like to do.

01:44:36.000 They like to express outrage.

01:44:38.000 And...

01:44:40.000 They talk too much.

01:44:41.000 There's too much expression.

01:44:43.000 Take it from someone who does talk too much.

01:44:45.000 Me, I talk way too much.

01:44:46.000 But they're not considering what they're doing.

01:44:51.000 They're just doing it. 1.00

01:44:52.000 And you don't change people's opinion by being an asshole online. 1.00

01:44:56.000 You just get everyone to realize you're an asshole. 1.00

01:44:58.000 True. 1.00

01:44:59.000 I got a bunch of vegans following me now because I took the time to respond to their concerns and now they actually got it.

01:45:05.000 But how can we make improvements when you have on one side an angry bunch of people that all they want to do is scream scandal or everything they see and then on the other side the people that matter that have a strong voice are scared to talk about everything because they're scared of that first group.

01:45:22.000 And then by doing that we're doing nothing.

01:45:24.000 I've been toning down a lot on my Instagram.

01:45:27.000 I stopped posting fish with blood on it or things like that because people just don't want to see it.

01:45:33.000 And I don't have a choice to do that because, again...

01:45:37.000 But what percentage don't want to see it?

01:45:39.000 This is the thing.

01:45:40.000 I mean, if someone eats fish, if they like sushi, and they get upset when they go to your Instagram page and you've got a spear through a tuna...

01:45:52.000 You're educating them in a lot of ways.

01:45:55.000 And the people that do get upset, even though you hear their voices, it's a loud minority.

01:46:01.000 How many followers do you have on Instagram?

01:46:05.000 84,000.

01:46:07.000 Think what 84,000 people looks like in a room.

01:46:10.000 That's a giant number of people. 1.00

01:46:12.000 Now imagine 50 of those people are screaming assholes. 1.00

01:46:16.000 That's what you have. 1.00

01:46:18.000 True.

01:46:18.000 It's a small percentage.

01:46:20.000 The number of people that see it and they're rational adults, they know that in order to kill a tuna there's gonna be some blood.

01:46:27.000 There's no bloodless method for killing a tuna.

01:46:31.000 It doesn't exist.

01:46:33.000 But also, the weird thing is that, in a way, I understand the outrage on a certain level.

01:46:39.000 I went deer hunting for the first time in New Caledonia in last October.

01:46:45.000 And it was not with both, it was with an actual gun.

01:46:48.000 And when I shot the deer, I started crying. 0.78

01:46:53.000 I was like, oh my god, I killed Bambi! 1.00

01:46:55.000 And it was so bad.

01:46:57.000 And I get there, and it was like, oh, it was all cute and everything.

01:47:00.000 I'm like, okay.

01:47:01.000 And then it was dead.

01:47:02.000 And then I carried it on my back, and we walked back to the house.

01:47:07.000 And then they started cutting it in pieces, and it started looking like meat.

01:47:13.000 And my guilt went completely away.

01:47:15.000 Completely away. 0.98

01:47:16.000 And I was like, wow, how much of a hypocrite can I be? 1.00

01:47:18.000 Then I'm crying because I killed freaking Bambi. 0.99

01:47:21.000 Like actual physical tears going down my face. 0.94

01:47:25.000 And then the second I see a piece of meat, I just got excited.

01:47:29.000 I'm like, we're going to make burgers all of a sudden.

01:47:32.000 And fish is a little bit easier because a lot of us have seen whole fish as kids.

01:47:39.000 You know, you put a whole fish on the table so that the gore is a little bit less there.

01:47:43.000 So it's more about the blood than seeing the actual fish.

01:47:46.000 But I get it. 0.94

01:47:48.000 I know it's bad, but I felt really, really like a hypocrite after that. 0.93

01:47:54.000 I know.

01:47:55.000 I felt in a weird way.

01:47:58.000 I felt like a weird sense of loss the first time I shot a deer.

01:48:02.000 But it went away when I started eating it too.

01:48:05.000 And I never killed an animal before that, but I had killed fish.

01:48:10.000 I've been fishing since I was a little kid.

01:48:11.000 I love fishing.

01:48:12.000 But I didn't feel a connection with fish the same way I felt a connection with a mammal.

01:48:18.000 It's because it's closer to us.

01:48:20.000 It's closer to our species.

01:48:23.000 Fish is like an alien thing that lives in an alien world that breathes water.

01:48:27.000 But again, the one that has like the human-like eyes, then I tend to feel...

01:48:32.000 Tuna is one of them.

01:48:33.000 I tend to feel...

01:48:35.000 It's true.

01:48:37.000 I have a picture.

01:48:38.000 I have to show it to you.

01:48:39.000 Tuna eyes?

01:48:41.000 It looks really...

01:48:44.000 You can see expression in their eyes.

01:48:47.000 That's the second way people are starting to feel like, oh, I'm a murderer.

01:48:51.000 Like fear?

01:48:53.000 There's, I think it's curiosity, but I guess you can say fear.

01:48:58.000 How about it's just freaking out because it knows you're going to eat it.

01:49:01.000 It's anthropomorphization, right?

01:49:03.000 We look at animals that we attach to.

01:49:04.000 See, that's one of them.

01:49:05.000 That's actually very, you see, that's kind of human-like. 1.00

01:49:08.000 Oh, that fish is an asshole. 1.00

01:49:09.000 I can tell looking at his eyes. 1.00

01:49:11.000 What is that?

01:49:12.000 That's a duck toot, too. 1.00

01:49:13.000 Fuck, those teeth are amazing. 1.00

01:49:15.000 Yeah, that's a pretty weird fish. 1.00

01:49:16.000 Look at that, Jamie.

01:49:18.000 Look at that, folks.

01:49:22.000 So it's, you know, you can see like it's like a little bit white on the outside and then there's color and then there's a light thing.

01:49:27.000 It's just freaking out because it's looking out at the air for the first time. 0.87

01:49:30.000 It's like, holy shit, there's another world up here, Claude! 0.97

01:49:34.000 Guys, guys, you gotta see this! 0.98

01:49:36.000 Well, for a second he was.

01:49:38.000 Right there he's alive.

01:49:39.000 Or she's alive.

01:49:41.000 Yeah, it's probably freaking out.

01:49:42.000 It's outside the water. 0.99

01:49:43.000 Like, what in the fuck is this? 1.00

01:49:45.000 Oh, if it was alive, it would have drawn my ass. 1.00

01:49:48.000 My hands were the sound of his gills, so if it comes back alive, this is a very, very strong fish. 0.99

01:49:53.000 Oh, I'd imagine.

01:49:54.000 Look at it.

01:49:54.000 It looks like a tank.

01:49:56.000 But, I mean, imagine being a fish.

01:49:58.000 You live your whole life in the water, and then all of a sudden someone pulls you out of it, and you look into the air, and you're like, what is this?

01:50:03.000 And why can't I breathe?

01:50:06.000 Well, at least I did it very quickly, so that's the good thing about it.

01:50:09.000 Yeah, but it's gotta be a freakout.

01:50:11.000 And plus their brains are like the size of your fingernail, right? 0.99

01:50:14.000 But I knife his brain pretty quickly. 0.99

01:50:17.000 What's that? 1.00

01:50:17.000 I knife his brain pretty quickly. 1.00

01:50:18.000 Is that what you do? 1.00

01:50:19.000 Right in the dome? 1.00

01:50:20.000 So you kill them and if you don't, you shoot them and if you don't kill them on the spot... 1.00

01:50:24.000 You shoot them? 1.00

01:50:24.000 With a gun? 1.00

01:50:25.000 Really?

01:50:26.000 Yeah.

01:50:27.000 You shoot Tuna with a gun?

01:50:29.000 With a spear gun? 0.69

01:50:30.000 Yeah.

01:50:31.000 Oh, okay.

01:50:32.000 Speargun.

01:50:32.000 Oh, sorry.

01:50:33.000 Yeah, speargun.

01:50:33.000 Sorry.

01:50:34.000 I thought you were like, bang!

01:50:35.000 No, no, no.

01:50:36.000 Gangster lean, sideways style. 1.00

01:50:39.000 Shoot him right in the head. 1.00

01:50:39.000 I don't think I'm strong enough. 1.00

01:50:41.000 Because I know they club them.

01:50:43.000 They club fish and they pull them on boats, but I didn't know they shot them.

01:50:46.000 True. 0.96

01:50:47.000 But you shoot them underwater. 0.99

01:50:49.000 That's how you do it with a speargun. 1.00

01:50:51.000 You shoot them underwater. 0.99

01:50:52.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:50:52.000 Yes, I get that. 0.99

01:50:53.000 And then when you get it on land, what I do is, well, what's most pivishing men do, you grab them from the gills.

01:51:00.000 That's a little gore, sorry.

01:51:02.000 Graphic content, beware. 0.96

01:51:03.000 And then you grab it by the gills and you knife it. 0.99

01:51:07.000 And it dies instantly. 1.00

01:51:08.000 Right.

01:51:09.000 If you go line fishing or even commercial fishing, what they do is they just throw it in a boat and then it dies of asphyxiation for hours. 0.88

01:51:19.000 We kill it as quick as possible.

01:51:22.000 And do you immediately throw them on ice? 0.99

01:51:25.000 Yes.

01:51:25.000 You know what I didn't know?

01:51:27.000 You bleed it first.

01:51:28.000 You bleed it first.

01:51:29.000 Because you know when you eat sushi or fish and it tastes fishy?

01:51:34.000 It's very often the blood that makes that taste.

01:51:38.000 So every time we catch a fish, you just cut the gills, you let it bleed, and then...

01:51:41.000 That's the same with meat.

01:51:43.000 It's the same with meat?

01:51:44.000 Yeah.

01:51:45.000 They butcher a deer, they'll hang it by its legs and cut its throat and gut it and let everything, let the meat bleed out.

01:51:54.000 And it's dead already, right? 0.80

01:51:55.000 Yes, it's already dead.

01:51:57.000 And fish, you have to do it straight away, almost in the water, if there's not too many sharks around, because the blood coagulates very, very, very quickly.

01:52:04.000 Right.

01:52:05.000 And then it becomes too late.

01:52:06.000 And then it changes the flavor of the fish.

01:52:08.000 Yeah, because when you fill it, you cut it on the side, and then when you flip it, there's just blood everywhere, and then it's tainting to me, and then it creates a taste that is not that good.

01:52:17.000 And I think that's one of the reasons why they soak fish in milk.

01:52:21.000 It changes the flavor, because I think, if I remember this correctly, there's enzymes in milk that destroy the harmful bacteria that causes fish to taste fishy.

01:52:34.000 And I think they said that this works also with meat and with chicken.

01:52:38.000 That there's a certain smell to chicken in particular that when you get it, like it might smell a little funky.

01:52:45.000 What that is is this certain bacteria that's on the surface of the skin.

01:52:49.000 And then if you soak it in milk, see if you can find that.

01:52:52.000 I read that, like, really recently.

01:52:54.000 This is saying it helps odor-free cooking when you're doing fish or shark even, too.

01:52:59.000 I tried with shark, actually.

01:53:01.000 Yeah, that's the only time I used a meal.

01:53:03.000 You eat sharks? 0.99

01:53:04.000 You monster! 0.92

01:53:05.000 Well, I was in Montauk and I saw a guy was filleting a shark. 0.99

01:53:10.000 Montauk?

01:53:10.000 Yeah.

01:53:11.000 In Long Island?

01:53:12.000 Yeah, in Long Island, yeah.

01:53:13.000 And then he was filleting like a small mako shark and I asked him for a piece and he gave me a slob of like...

01:53:19.000 I was like, okay, thank you.

01:53:21.000 So I walked over with my big piece of shark.

01:53:23.000 And what stroked me was like the smell.

01:53:26.000 It smelled like meat.

01:53:27.000 You can smell like the ammonia in it.

01:53:30.000 It was super strong.

01:53:31.000 And then I read online, it said put in milk and lemon juice for 24 hours.

01:53:35.000 Did you do that?

01:53:36.000 Yes I did.

01:53:37.000 So lemon juice would break it down. 0.91

01:53:39.000 Was it good?

01:53:40.000 Yeah it was good.

01:53:41.000 How do you cook it?

01:53:42.000 I just fried it in a pan.

01:53:44.000 Do you have a special way that you like to cook fish?

01:53:47.000 Um, it depends which one, but I really like lightly floured and just, I sear it in olive oil and then I cook it slowly in butter.

01:53:58.000 I'm French, I put butter in everything.

01:54:00.000 Yeah.

01:54:01.000 Have you become like more into cooking because you kill your own fish?

01:54:07.000 Opposite.

01:54:08.000 Really?

01:54:08.000 I actually, I mean, opposite in a way that I always love to cook and I got into spearfishing because of cooking.

01:54:17.000 So this is what made me fall in love with the sport, or the lifestyle you can call it.

01:54:22.000 It's the fact that catching my own food, I get access to amazing fish and seafood that couldn't be more fresh than that.

01:54:30.000 There's a guy named Hank Shaw.

01:54:32.000 He's been on my podcast before.

01:54:33.000 He's an amazing chef.

01:54:35.000 And he has a bunch of wild game recipe books.

01:54:39.000 And he got into it because he wanted the freshest ingredients.

01:54:43.000 And he wanted wild game ingredients as opposed to buying farm-raised or factory-farmed food.

01:54:49.000 He wanted to be able to cook amazing dishes from, say, a wild pig that he shot himself.

01:54:54.000 So he got into hunting because of that.

01:54:56.000 And because of that, he's very valuable.

01:55:00.000 For people that are really interested in cooking wild game because he was a legit, excellent chef before he ever got into hunting.

01:55:08.000 And then getting into hunting and now he writes books about it and he's very, very passionate about it.

01:55:13.000 It's interesting.

01:55:14.000 It was a very similar situation to me.

01:55:16.000 I literally got into it pretty much just for the food.

01:55:19.000 Actually, the first two years when I thought it was pivishing, I didn't even like pivishing.

01:55:24.000 I was underwater scared of my own shadow.

01:55:27.000 For two years?

01:55:28.000 I didn't like it.

01:55:29.000 But you said you liked it the first time.

01:55:30.000 I liked it.

01:55:31.000 I liked the concept.

01:55:32.000 I liked what was behind it.

01:55:33.000 I fell in love with catching my own food and cooking after and all of that.

01:55:37.000 The spivishing itself, it took me a while.

01:55:39.000 So you were still nervous about it.

01:55:41.000 I was extremely nervous, extremely nervous, like struggling to breathe.

01:55:45.000 And every time I was going for a spivishing trip, I couldn't sleep for a month.

01:55:49.000 I was literally imagining myself being chewed by a shark and this and that.

01:55:55.000 My trip's never been about that, even though I was completely petrified of them.

01:56:00.000 I've been lost at sea once, which was a pretty shitty day, I must say.

01:56:03.000 You got lost at sea?

01:56:03.000 Yeah.

01:56:04.000 What happened?

01:56:05.000 About two years ago.

01:56:07.000 I was in Mexico, and I was with friends. 1.00

01:56:10.000 Fucking Mexico. 1.00

01:56:11.000 I was so angry. 1.00

01:56:12.000 I hated a guy so badly.

01:56:14.000 What happened?

01:56:15.000 So I jump in the water with a friend of mine that never spearfished before.

01:56:20.000 Your friend never spearfished before?

01:56:23.000 No, no.

01:56:23.000 He never did anything.

01:56:24.000 He's just like, I want to look around and see what you're doing.

01:56:26.000 How deep is the water?

01:56:28.000 It's pretty deep.

01:56:28.000 You can't see the bottom.

01:56:30.000 And then the boats start going further and further and further and further.

01:56:34.000 And my friend is like, what's going on?

01:56:35.000 I'm like, nothing, nothing.

01:56:37.000 And I'm like, okay, we're going to start swimming from the shore right now.

01:56:40.000 For the shore?

01:56:41.000 Yeah, for the shore.

01:56:42.000 So start swimming.

01:56:43.000 It was like...

01:56:44.000 It would have been durable.

01:56:46.000 It was like, I don't know, maybe a good like five miles maybe. 0.99

01:56:49.000 The fucking shore was five miles away? 0.99

01:56:52.000 It was far. 1.00

01:56:53.000 It was like, I would have done it.

01:56:54.000 It was definitely been after dark when I reached the shore.

01:56:57.000 So I'm trying not to panic.

01:56:59.000 My heart is like pounding in my chest.

01:57:01.000 I can feel it in my throat.

01:57:02.000 It's drifting away.

01:57:04.000 Drifting away?

01:57:05.000 For no reason.

01:57:07.000 Who was in charge of the boat?

01:57:09.000 The captain that we hired.

01:57:11.000 That was American actually.

01:57:13.000 What do you do?

01:57:14.000 Just start drinking and not paying attention to you?

01:57:16.000 Oh, wait.

01:57:18.000 And then we're stuck, so I told my friend, okay, let's swim.

01:57:20.000 We swam for about an hour, an hour and a half.

01:57:22.000 Oh, my God.

01:57:23.000 And then a boat passes by.

01:57:25.000 So I started screaming and yelling, and I had my buoy.

01:57:29.000 Luckily, I was swimming.

01:57:31.000 And it passed next to me.

01:57:32.000 They wave at me like, hi.

01:57:33.000 I'm like, no, no, no, no.

01:57:34.000 I'm like, help, help, help.

01:57:36.000 I go completely nuts.

01:57:37.000 And then the boat stops.

01:57:38.000 And they pick us up and I'm trying to explain in my completely inexistent Spanish that we've been stranding at sea.

01:57:45.000 And the boat is like right there, super far away.

01:57:48.000 And they drop us to the boat.

01:57:50.000 The guy is asking me for money.

01:57:52.000 I'm like, I'm lost.

01:57:53.000 I'd seen my wetsuit.

01:57:55.000 The guy who took you to the boat is asking you for money?

01:57:58.000 No, the guy that picked me up was asking me for money, for a tip, for rescuing me in the middle of the ocean.

01:58:05.000 I was like, sorry, I don't have a tip in my panties right now, but thank you for saving my life.

01:58:10.000 And then he dropped us to the boat, and then we get to the boat, and the guy's like, oh, I didn't put enough gas in the boat.

01:58:17.000 Oops.

01:58:19.000 I'm like, what?

01:58:20.000 So he ran out of gas?

01:58:22.000 He ran out of gas.

01:58:23.000 So you were, he would never be able to get you?

01:58:26.000 Never. 1.00

01:58:28.000 Holy shit. 1.00

01:58:29.000 It was so bad. 1.00

01:58:30.000 And then we managed to, the Coast Guard came and they tried to tow the boat and they started telling the Coast Guard to like, go screw themselves because, because I don't want to pay for this, you're a bunch of assholes. 0.99

01:58:40.000 I'm like, can you stop talking right now? 0.99

01:58:43.000 Oh my God.

01:58:45.000 And he literally insulted him so badly, the Coast Guard left.

01:58:48.000 Did they take you with them?

01:58:49.000 No.

01:58:49.000 I was still on the boat.

01:58:50.000 Oh my god.

01:58:51.000 With my friends, I were drinking.

01:58:52.000 I really didn't understand what was going on.

01:58:55.000 They were like, why are you so mad?

01:58:56.000 I'm like, just keep drinking.

01:58:57.000 So how did you get back?

01:58:58.000 And then he managed to find full reception.

01:59:01.000 He called the cousin of his wife, his neighbor of this and that to come tow him.

01:59:05.000 He arrived like about an hour and a half later.

01:59:08.000 I got back to shore and the guy's like, oh, so what time are we going tomorrow?

01:59:11.000 I'm like... 0.99

01:59:12.000 Screw you. 1.00

01:59:13.000 I'm leaving. 1.00

01:59:13.000 I never want to see you again. 1.00

01:59:15.000 What time are we going tomorrow? 1.00

01:59:16.000 What a fucking delusional asshole. 1.00

01:59:18.000 It was so bad. 1.00

01:59:19.000 And then we get to the car.

01:59:20.000 I know you almost died.

01:59:21.000 And I left you in the ocean.

01:59:22.000 And I didn't have any gas. 1.00

01:59:24.000 And I told the coast guard to go fuck off. 1.00

01:59:26.000 Exactly. 1.00

01:59:26.000 I'm like, I'm never seeing you ever again. 1.00

01:59:28.000 And we get to the car.

01:59:29.000 And my friend's like, oh, I give him like $100 in chip.

01:59:31.000 Is that enough?

01:59:32.000 I'm like, you did what?

01:59:34.000 You did what now?

01:59:38.000 My hair looks like...

01:59:43.000 Is that the scariest thing that's ever happened to you in the water besides the tiger shark?

01:59:48.000 Yeah, definitely.

01:59:51.000 For sure.

01:59:51.000 Was there anything else like that?

01:59:53.000 That really freaked me out.

01:59:54.000 That should freak you out.

01:59:55.000 Five miles is a long way to swim, especially if you don't swim distance all the time.

02:00:00.000 Did you have any flotation device or anything?

02:00:02.000 I had one buoy about that big, and we were two.

02:00:05.000 I was more scared because it was about like 435, so the sun was getting down really quickly.

02:00:10.000 You wouldn't be able to see where the shore is.

02:00:11.000 No.

02:00:12.000 I mean, with the lights, yes.

02:00:14.000 But I was more freaked about sharks and things like that when it's dark. 1.00

02:00:19.000 Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. 1.00

02:00:21.000 So I had moments in spearfishing that was a little bit freaky. 1.00

02:00:25.000 I also had a blackout last year.

02:00:28.000 Underwater?

02:00:29.000 Yeah, that's the biggest danger of spearfishing is actually blacking out.

02:00:32.000 It's not sharks.

02:00:33.000 It's not getting bitten by anything.

02:00:35.000 Underwater?

02:00:36.000 Yeah.

02:00:36.000 So basically what happens is that you dive down and then When you come to the surface, if you stay too long, your lungs on your way to the surface are going to expand back.

02:00:46.000 And then your residual volume of air that you have left in your lungs becomes really, really small.

02:00:52.000 So then the percentage becomes too low and then you pass out.

02:00:55.000 The what becomes too low?

02:00:56.000 The percentage of oxygen in your lungs becomes too small and then you just pass out.

02:01:03.000 So basically your brain shuts down to make sure that a lack of oxygen is not creating any permanent damages. 0.99

02:01:09.000 Oh, what a shitty system. 0.98

02:01:11.000 It's actually kind of smart. 0.99

02:01:13.000 Not in that time.

02:01:15.000 But then that's what happens with people is that when it comes back up, if your buddy is not watching you, and that's why spin fishing is a team sport, if they're not watching you, if you pass out in the water...

02:01:24.000 What if they pass out too?

02:01:25.000 You're going to sink right down.

02:01:26.000 You're both doing it at the same time.

02:01:29.000 Well, the good system to dive is one person dives at the bottom, the person is watching the other one.

02:01:34.000 And then it's one up, one down, one up, one down.

02:01:37.000 And then you watch each other's back.

02:01:39.000 Is that what happened with you?

02:01:41.000 Yeah, I was actually very lucky.

02:01:44.000 The guy that was diving with me lost his brother a few years before to a blackout, so he was looking at me very, very closely, and I was beyond grateful to see his face at the surface.

02:01:57.000 I knew it, and I knew he was going to blackout.

02:01:59.000 How did you know you were going to blackout?

02:02:01.000 Because it was...

02:02:02.000 I dove down and I was aiming at a fish.

02:02:04.000 It was pretty deep.

02:02:05.000 I was at like 85 feet.

02:02:07.000 And I aimed for a fish.

02:02:08.000 It was in a pole spear or two. 0.76

02:02:09.000 It was in a gun and I missed it.

02:02:11.000 And I started chasing it in the water and then I missed it again. 0.99

02:02:14.000 I was like, God damn it. 0.99

02:02:15.000 And then I realized, I was like, whoa, I'm actually pretty deep and I've been there for quite a while. 0.99

02:02:20.000 So I start panicking a little bit. 1.00

02:02:21.000 So when you panic, you let air even more, which is completely stupid. 0.99

02:02:24.000 And then I start finning, finning, finning. 0.99

02:02:26.000 And then you start doing...

02:02:29.000 Finning?

02:02:30.000 Sorry?

02:02:30.000 Finning?

02:02:31.000 What does that mean?

02:02:33.000 Finning.

02:02:34.000 You wear fins?

02:02:36.000 Mm-hmm.

02:02:37.000 Oh, kicking?

02:02:38.000 You're trying to get to the surface fast?

02:02:40.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:02:41.000 And then what happens first before you black out is you have a loss of motor control.

02:02:47.000 So I could feel like my body making weird movements and I knew that I was out of oxygen.

02:02:52.000 And then I knew that I was most probably going to pass out.

02:02:56.000 Wow.

02:02:57.000 And then I came back, I came back, and then I saw that my friend was watching and I was like, I really hope you're really watching.

02:03:01.000 I hope you're really watching.

02:03:02.000 And he grabbed me and then he woke me up.

02:03:05.000 How far were you from the surface and you blacked out?

02:03:08.000 I blacked out of the surface.

02:03:09.000 Oh, at the surface.

02:03:10.000 Yes.

02:03:10.000 Which is why it's called a shallow water blackout.

02:03:13.000 Because even if you're in deeper water, most of the time it happens at the surface.

02:03:17.000 So when you got to the surface, what did he have to do to wake you up?

02:03:21.000 You have to take the mask off, you have to keep the head off the water, and then you have to blow on the ice because you have a high concentration of nerves, you slap a little bit, not too hard.

02:03:31.000 Call the person's name, and then you normally wake up pretty fast, unless you inhale water.

02:03:37.000 Was it like you had a dream?

02:03:38.000 Like, if you get choked out, like, one of the things that happens when you get choked out is you wake up, it's like you're dreaming.

02:03:44.000 Like, what?

02:03:44.000 Whoa, I was at a disco.

02:03:48.000 I was riding my skateboard.

02:03:50.000 Like, it's weird.

02:03:51.000 I've never been choked out to the point of passing out.

02:03:55.000 I'd imagine similar, though.

02:03:56.000 Luckily for me.

02:03:57.000 But, yeah, I missed out in a few minutes, and I just wasn't sure what was going on, and then you're just done for the day when it happens, but...

02:04:06.000 Yeah, you have to be done, huh?

02:04:07.000 Yeah, for the risk of getting another one the same day is actually very high.

02:04:11.000 Wow, so once you shut off, you get shut off again?

02:04:14.000 Yeah, so you have to wait at least the following day to get back in the water.

02:04:17.000 Did you jump back in the next day?

02:04:20.000 I think I did.

02:04:21.000 It was the day after.

02:04:22.000 I really want to go back in the water as soon as possible.

02:04:24.000 Just to jump back on the horse?

02:04:26.000 Yeah, so at night I was a little bit stressed out and my friend gave me some kratom and it was fun.

02:04:31.000 Oh, that stuff.

02:04:34.000 I used to think that stuff, that kratom, was...

02:04:38.000 I didn't think it was a drug.

02:04:42.000 I thought it was a mild stimulant.

02:04:44.000 I heard that people take it for pain.

02:04:45.000 But I thought that when they're taking it for pain, that they're not getting high.

02:04:50.000 They're just taking it and it alleviates pain, like Advil or something like that.

02:04:54.000 And then I took, I think I took eight of them.

02:04:58.000 Eight or ten, which is a lot.

02:05:00.000 Because I know Chris Bell takes like ten every day.

02:05:02.000 Oh, but it's like, it's a pill?

02:05:04.000 Yeah.

02:05:04.000 Oh, okay.

02:05:04.000 I took it in powder mixed with like...

02:05:06.000 Yeah, this is just the powder and pill form. 0.99

02:05:08.000 And I was high as fuck. 0.99

02:05:11.000 And I was like, oh, okay. 0.99

02:05:13.000 Now I know why people are nervous about this stuff.

02:05:16.000 I mean, but the weird thing is, I was high, but my body was very functional.

02:05:21.000 Like, I was high, but I wasn't uncoordinated.

02:05:24.000 I wasn't, like, knocking things over.

02:05:27.000 It wasn't that.

02:05:27.000 Everything worked normal.

02:05:29.000 Like, everything was moving as I wanted it to move, but I was like, whoa, I'm fucking tripping. 0.97

02:05:34.000 Isn't it an opium derivative? 0.98

02:05:36.000 It is an opiate.

02:05:38.000 It operates on your opiate receptors in some sort of strange way, which is one of the reasons why they're making the argument that it should be illegal, but if...

02:05:47.000 Any opiate is legal.

02:05:48.000 It should be that one.

02:05:49.000 Because it helps people tremendously with addiction, tremendously with pain.

02:05:54.000 It doesn't seem to be toxic to the point where it can kill you.

02:05:57.000 Or it's very, very rare that it does.

02:06:01.000 It seems to operate in a completely different way than any other opiate.

02:06:04.000 And like I said, even though I was definitely high, like I was definitely under the influence of something, nobody, I don't think anybody knew.

02:06:12.000 I mean, I could have conversations with people, but in the back of my head, I was like, I'm so high!

02:06:16.000 Yeah.

02:06:17.000 But I'm talking to people and it was all totally normal.

02:06:20.000 I wasn't driving, but if I was driving, I think I'd be fine.

02:06:23.000 I was fine walking.

02:06:25.000 I think I even worked out.

02:06:27.000 Oh, really?

02:06:27.000 Yeah, it just operates in a very different way.

02:06:32.000 I've had my knee operation.

02:06:36.000 I had one of my knee operations.

02:06:38.000 They gave me a morphine button when I was in the hospital.

02:06:42.000 They said, if you want morphine, just press that button and it'll give you some morphine. 0.99

02:06:46.000 I just fucking hate that thing. 0.99

02:06:51.000 Because once you get high off the morphine, you're in the hospital, you're like, this is great! 0.99

02:06:55.000 Keep pressing the button, and the pain of the knee is...

02:06:58.000 Also, my knee was on this motion machine.

02:07:01.000 Right after the surgery was done, they put me on this machine that extends and contracts your knee, brings it back and forth, and that's not comfortable.

02:07:10.000 But when you hit that morphine pad, bang!

02:07:13.000 That's fun.

02:07:14.000 But other than that, I never really have had opiates, I don't think, except...

02:07:19.000 They gave me a pain pill prescription.

02:07:21.000 I don't remember what kind it was.

02:07:22.000 It was Vicodin or Percocets or one of those.

02:07:25.000 I took it once and I hated it. 0.99

02:07:27.000 It just made me feel really stupid. 0.99

02:07:30.000 I just remember thinking my brain is just really dull. 0.97

02:07:33.000 And I still could feel the pain.

02:07:34.000 I just didn't care.

02:07:35.000 It was weird.

02:07:38.000 Those morphine buttons are very dangerous.

02:07:40.000 When I got my operation, I keep pressing the button too because I thought it was really fun.

02:07:44.000 Until they told me, well, it's time to go home.

02:07:46.000 And I stood up and I fell right on my face.

02:07:49.000 I had a complete faceplant.

02:07:50.000 Really?

02:07:51.000 Yeah, like an actual complete faceplant.

02:07:53.000 What were you in the hospital for?

02:07:55.000 I was an urnium.

02:07:58.000 Hernia?

02:07:58.000 Yeah.

02:07:59.000 And they didn't ask you, like, how many times you pressed that button, Valentine?

02:08:03.000 They definitely didn't seem to have taken into consideration my weight.

02:08:07.000 Oh, yeah, right?

02:08:08.000 You're tiny.

02:08:09.000 Well, why wouldn't they ask you how many times you pressed a button before they let you get up?

02:08:12.000 I don't know, but I remember the woman being like, the nurse being like, like, you had a lot.

02:08:18.000 You sure you want more?

02:08:19.000 You sure that much? 1.00

02:08:20.000 Fuck yeah! 1.00

02:08:20.000 I was like, yeah, bring it in. 1.00

02:08:22.000 I'm fine. 1.00

02:08:24.000 Fuck yeah! 1.00

02:08:24.000 Well, once you're under the influence of it, I imagine you don't really worry about it. 1.00

02:08:29.000 Nah, you don't.

02:08:30.000 Until you pass out.

02:08:32.000 Well, listen, Valentine, I'm glad we did this.

02:08:34.000 It was really fun.

02:08:35.000 I'm glad we had this conversation.

02:08:36.000 I think, like I said, I think what you're trying to do with your life is admirable.

02:08:41.000 Life is short. 0.99

02:08:42.000 I wish more people would chase their dreams and live their lives in a way that they want to, rather than just jump into the fucking rat race. 0.98

02:08:51.000 I'm definitely not regretting any second of it, so I'm happy I did that.

02:08:55.000 Thank you so much for having me here, and it's crazy how you came up.

02:09:00.000 I was asking a friend of mine for a podcast to listen, and he talked to me about yours.

02:09:05.000 I was sitting at a beach in the Bahamas, and my friend Arunas that went to law school with me was like, oh, you should listen to this Royal Oregon podcast.

02:09:10.000 It's awesome.

02:09:11.000 I look you up on Instagram, and I saw you were following me.

02:09:13.000 I was like, nice!

02:09:17.000 Well, there we go.

02:09:18.000 My friend was like, what? 1.00

02:09:19.000 No shit! 1.00

02:09:21.000 Well, we did it. 1.00

02:09:23.000 Thanks for doing this.

02:09:23.000 I hope maybe this opens up some doors for you and some things happen.

02:09:27.000 Well, if people stop hiding behind their closed-minded opinion, let's see.

02:09:32.000 I think slowly but surely, conversations like this open doors and change people's perceptions.

02:09:39.000 And that's what I hope people got out of this.

02:09:40.000 That's good.

02:09:41.000 If I have one message today, talk about it.

02:09:43.000 Know where your food comes from and don't be scared to see what's going on.

02:09:47.000 And live the life the way you want.

02:09:49.000 That's what you're doing.

02:09:50.000 Oh yeah, get out of your comfort zone because you're never going to discover the person you are by staying in there.

02:09:55.000 Boom.

The Joe Rogan Experience - August 27, 2018

Joe Rogan Experience #1162 - Valentine Thomas

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript