The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1189 - Alex Honnold

00:00:02.000 Should I do headphones?

00:00:03.000 It doesn't matter.

00:00:03.000 Yeah, I like headphones.

00:00:05.000 I kind of hate hearing myself that a lot, though.

00:00:07.000 Why, you sound good.

00:00:08.000 Why do you hate hearing yourself?

00:00:09.000 Dude. 1.00

00:00:10.000 Try to pull this sucker up, like, about a fist from your face. 0.99

00:00:13.000 Good to see you again, man. 0.99

00:00:14.000 It's been a long time.

00:00:15.000 It has been.

00:00:16.000 With a guy like you, it's always nice to see you're still alive.

00:00:18.000 You know, I'm doing my best. 0.98

00:00:20.000 Do you get tired of hearing shit like that? 0.99

00:00:21.000 Oh, I don't care. 0.99

00:00:22.000 I mean, I get it a lot.

00:00:23.000 Do you get tired of, like, the weirdness of, like, interviewing with people and they're like, you know, you know you could die.

00:00:30.000 Is this scary?

00:00:31.000 Yeah, that's alright though.

00:00:33.000 It's funny, touring with the film, we've been doing Q&As every night, you get the same questions from the audience all the time.

00:00:38.000 And part of that is tiring, but then part of it, people ask the same questions because they're obvious, because everybody wants to know the same things, and I'm like, I understand that.

00:00:46.000 One of the weirdest parts of the film is when they're showing all the guys who have died from free soloing.

00:00:54.000 Yeah, though actually they didn't all die free soloing.

00:00:56.000 That's probably the only thing that I take slight issue with with the film.

00:01:01.000 It's slightly hyperbolic because two of them died base jumping and one of them died rope jumping.

00:01:05.000 They all were free solos, which is kind of what the film is saying, that they're all free solos who have died.

00:01:10.000 But they all died in the mountains doing mountain-related extreme activities.

00:01:16.000 Yeah, that doesn't make the story as good.

00:01:18.000 That's like poetic license.

00:01:20.000 Yeah.

00:01:21.000 It got sneaky.

00:01:21.000 Yeah.

00:01:22.000 Well, you know, I mean, they all were free solos, but yeah.

00:01:27.000 That's not the same, though.

00:01:29.000 Yeah, no, exactly.

00:01:31.000 The other way to look at it is that no free soloist has ever died doing anything cutting edge.

00:01:35.000 That's my favorite statistic.

00:01:37.000 What does that mean?

00:01:38.000 No free soloist has ever died doing hard soloing.

00:01:41.000 Basically, a few free soloists have died falling off an easy turn, or just falling off routine, or just falling off the mountain.

00:01:49.000 But none of them have ever died while doing something cutting edge, something that had never been done before, or something that was hardcore.

00:01:55.000 Hmm.

00:01:55.000 Do you think that's because when you're doing something that's a little bit easier, you relax?

00:02:00.000 I think that's probably part of it, but also I think part of it is just a numbers thing.

00:02:04.000 You spend so much time doing easy stuff and so little time doing really hard stuff that, you know, it's just statistics.

00:02:12.000 How important is it when you're free soloing to have that edge, to be really cognizant about how intense this is?

00:02:21.000 Like, if you got too calm and too relaxed, No, I think that is kind of the concern, for sure.

00:02:26.000 And I've noticed that for myself, anyway.

00:02:29.000 And I try not to do very much easy sawing anymore, because there is a certain complacency that over time, you know, you just do so much mileage on easy terrain, and then you're like, this is so easy, this is so easy, and then you slip and you die.

00:02:41.000 Wow.

00:02:42.000 You know.

00:02:44.000 You know, fighters look at things that way, too.

00:02:46.000 At a certain point in their life, they don't want easy fights because they need to get challenged.

00:02:51.000 Otherwise, they won't train properly and then they wind up losing.

00:02:55.000 Yeah, you have to take it seriously.

00:02:56.000 Yeah.

00:02:57.000 Well, the difference between a fighter, say, when they're not trained and not in camp and just their skill and what their body can do without going through a camp, It's probably only like 70% of what they are when they actually go through everything with full intensity,

00:03:15.000 eight weeks, two times a day, you know, physical therapy, massage, visualization, conditioning, all the things that make them who they are the day they step into the cage.

00:03:29.000 Like when you free solo...

00:03:31.000 It's funny, you saw the film, that's all exactly the level of preparation that went into it.

00:03:38.000 Do you take time off before a big free solo?

00:03:42.000 No, it's kind of the opposite.

00:03:45.000 It's sort of ramping up to it.

00:03:47.000 Right, but do you, is there any concern that maybe you haven't given yourself enough recuperative time, like, for the day of?

00:03:55.000 No.

00:03:55.000 Well, so for me anyway, it was always sort of the opposite, because the real challenge of free soloing is the psychological side, the mental side of it.

00:04:01.000 It's not so much the physical.

00:04:02.000 Like, I don't necessarily have to physically perform at the absolute limit of what I'm capable of, but I have to mentally perform at that level.

00:04:10.000 And so, and the mental side of it comes so much from confidence and feeling, you know, feeling prepared.

00:04:15.000 And so, I don't know.

00:04:17.000 So when I, when I freestyle at El Cap, I kind of knew that I wasn't actually, um, like I'd probably already started to decline a little bit physically over the course of the season because the two months in Yosemite is just kind of grueling on your body.

00:04:27.000 Like all the time I spent going up and down on the wall and preparing, it's very, very tiring.

00:04:32.000 And so I kind of realized that I was starting to get sort of deeply fatigued.

00:04:35.000 You know, I was sort of a week away from like having started a slump of like, oh, I'm kind of pooped.

00:04:40.000 But the thing is, I knew that because of all that preparation, you know, psychologically I was as good as I was ever going to be.

00:04:46.000 So even if I was physically starting to be a little bit tired, it's like time to, you know, it's kind of the different curves.

00:04:52.000 You have to hit it right at the right moment.

00:04:54.000 Now, is your psychological preparation just you getting your mind into it?

00:04:59.000 Or do you have like specific techniques you use or a form of meditation or anything that you specifically concentrate on when you're visualizing success or...

00:05:08.000 No.

00:05:09.000 It's not even necessarily visualizing success.

00:05:12.000 For me, it's visualizing the experience.

00:05:14.000 Sort of imagining what everything will feel like.

00:05:16.000 Imagining what it'll like to place my foot on a hold.

00:05:19.000 Grabbing the sensations of it and the exposure of it.

00:05:23.000 Thinking through what it'll feel like with so much air around me and no rope.

00:05:28.000 Basically to make sure that nothing is surprising when I get there.

00:05:31.000 Dude, my hands are sweating just talking to you.

00:05:33.000 I'm not kidding.

00:05:34.000 Feel that.

00:05:36.000 Isn't that fucking gross, right? 0.98

00:05:38.000 Yeah, it's like clammy. 0.99

00:05:38.000 I realized it. 0.99

00:05:39.000 Like, when I'm talking to you, I'm thinking about you doing this, and my hands started fucking sweating.

00:05:43.000 Yeah, you start thinking about thousands of feet of air, and you're like, oh! 0.80

00:05:46.000 Yeah, I start thinking about chalk and powder and that. 0.99

00:05:50.000 Shit like that. 1.00

00:05:51.000 God damn, dude. 1.00

00:05:53.000 Have you ever gone to, like, a sports psychologist, or have you ever, like, actively tried to coordinate a program for mental training or anything like that? 1.00

00:06:06.000 No, not really.

00:06:07.000 I mean, so with free-selling El Cap, I found that I needed to create enough space for, it's not so much mental training, but create enough empty time so that I was able to sort of process.

00:06:21.000 So I stopped responding to email, I erased my social media, it sort of freed up my life.

00:06:27.000 And then actually my girlfriend left for sort of the week ahead of time so that I was just totally by myself in my van with nothing going on, like no distractions.

00:06:34.000 And so that's not exactly, you know, mental training, but it was giving myself the free time that I could just sit around and think about things, you know, I could process like it in my own terms at my own time.

00:06:45.000 When was the last time we talked?

00:06:47.000 How many years ago was that?

00:06:48.000 So long.

00:06:49.000 I feel like it was at least four, right?

00:06:51.000 Oh no, it was like six or seven.

00:06:53.000 Was it?

00:06:53.000 I think so.

00:06:54.000 I think it was like 2012 or something.

00:06:55.000 During that time, how much has changed in your life in terms of the way people perceive what you do and the amount of attention that you get?

00:07:03.000 I would imagine that having that alone time now...

00:07:07.000 Yeah, it's much harder.

00:07:08.000 Yeah.

00:07:09.000 No, totally.

00:07:09.000 It's funny.

00:07:10.000 I mean, I've tried to not let my life get busy over time, but it just sort of naturally happens.

00:07:15.000 Well, it's success.

00:07:16.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:07:17.000 There's so many more demands.

00:07:18.000 People want to talk to you.

00:07:18.000 Yeah.

00:07:19.000 When I reached out to you, I reached out to you a couple times, but I was like, this guy's probably getting fucked with all the time. 0.83

00:07:26.000 Like, someone's probably always poking at you, and you're just trying to get a foothold. 0.85

00:07:30.000 Like, literally.

00:07:30.000 Just trying to hold on.

00:07:32.000 No, I mean...

00:07:33.000 I appreciate all the opportunities I have now.

00:07:36.000 I'm very happy with the way my life has changed over time, but certainly when I look back at 10 or 12 years ago when I was just a single 20-year-old man living in a car, I had nothing going on.

00:07:49.000 If I had one interview in a month, I'd be like, well, it's a big month for media.

00:07:53.000 And then now on a film tour, it's completely outrageous.

00:07:56.000 It's totally the other end of the spectrum.

00:07:59.000 Now, when you're doing this film tour, when does the film actually come out?

00:08:03.000 Oh, the film's like out.

00:08:04.000 It's in theaters, so you can go see it right now.

00:08:05.000 But you can't get it on iTunes yet.

00:08:06.000 Is that what it is?

00:08:07.000 Oh, yeah.

00:08:07.000 So it did a month of festival circuiting, you know, earlier in the end of the summer, and then it came out in theaters at the end of September.

00:08:16.000 So it's right now, I think this weekend is its widest release.

00:08:19.000 It's like 400 theaters all over the country right now.

00:08:21.000 Wow.

00:08:22.000 And then, in theory, it's through National Geographic, so I think it'll be on television on the channel at some point, and then eventually it'll stream somewhere.

00:08:30.000 I don't know.

00:08:31.000 Is it strange, all this attention?

00:08:34.000 Yeah, I mean, well, I don't know.

00:08:36.000 In some ways, it's a natural extension of all the stuff I've had over the years.

00:08:40.000 You know, like having a 60 Minutes piece many years ago was a flurry of attention.

00:08:45.000 And so that kind of sort of prepared me in some ways.

00:08:49.000 But yeah, I mean, well, you've dealt with this your whole life.

00:08:51.000 Yeah, but I'm asking...

00:08:54.000 Yeah, but I feel like it comes with what I do.

00:08:57.000 I'm in show business.

00:08:58.000 You know, show business.

00:09:00.000 You know what I mean?

00:09:01.000 Yeah, that's fair.

00:09:02.000 You're a climber.

00:09:04.000 Yeah.

00:09:04.000 And the most radical kind of climber.

00:09:08.000 Free solo.

00:09:09.000 When I think of what you do, I think of quiet tension.

00:09:13.000 Yeah, that's kind of fair.

00:09:15.000 Yeah, because it should be sort of meditative and relaxing and quiet, but then obviously you're also sometimes straining your entire body, you know, like trying very hard physically.

00:09:26.000 Well, I remember one of the things you said to me the last time we talked was that it's very mellow because if it ever gets intense, something's gone horribly wrong.

00:09:35.000 Yeah, you're doing something wrong.

00:09:36.000 No, I still feel exactly the same way.

00:09:40.000 Yeah, that's always the challenge is to keep it relaxed.

00:09:44.000 But for a guy like you, my perception of a guy like you, who's that person who's doing that activity, then to sort of juxtapose that with this media tour type environment and dealing with all these people,

00:10:01.000 that seems to me like it would be really annoying.

00:10:05.000 I mean, yeah, it's very different than my normal lifestyle, I guess.

00:10:09.000 But the thing is, you know, it's sort of an adventure, and it's an experience in its own way.

00:10:13.000 I've been kind of calling it an expedition film tour, because I've done a lot of expeditions in my life.

00:10:18.000 Like last winter, I went to Antarctica for a month, and it's not exactly the type of climbing I normally do, and I don't really like being cold.

00:10:24.000 But you're sort of like, oh, it is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to go somewhere.

00:10:27.000 You know, it was like going to Mars or something.

00:10:28.000 It was this totally outrageous experience.

00:10:30.000 We're climbing big rock walls in Antarctica.

00:10:32.000 You're just living on the glacier, and it's totally different, totally crazy.

00:10:36.000 Down on a glacier?

00:10:36.000 Yeah, we were just in a tent on a glacier for a month.

00:10:39.000 When you do that, how thick a pad do you use?

00:10:42.000 Really thick.

00:10:43.000 And a very, very thick sleeping bag.

00:10:45.000 Do you ever get warm inside of all that?

00:10:48.000 Yeah, in your sleeping bag.

00:10:49.000 It's a negative 40 degree sleeping bag.

00:10:50.000 I mean, it's pretty legit.

00:10:51.000 But anyway, I mean, so that kind of experience, you know, in some ways is very comparable to a film tour.

00:10:57.000 I'm like, this is going to be a once in a lifetime thing.

00:10:58.000 You just embrace it.

00:10:59.000 You go with it.

00:11:00.000 You know, it's different than the way you normally choose to live your life.

00:11:03.000 But that kind of makes it interesting.

00:11:04.000 You know, it's something new.

00:11:05.000 Well, I can imagine it would be very interesting.

00:11:09.000 The Antarctica thing sounds like a trip.

00:11:11.000 Yeah.

00:11:12.000 Were you traveling on an established corridor?

00:11:17.000 No, no.

00:11:18.000 Some people had climbed in the region before, but we actually did tons of first ascents, like routes and summits that had never been climbed.

00:11:25.000 Wow.

00:11:26.000 Yeah, it's pretty cool.

00:11:27.000 Now, when you do something like that, do you map it out in advance?

00:11:30.000 Yeah.

00:11:31.000 I mean, well, not really, because, I mean, they're photos of the formations, and people, like I said, had climbed some of them.

00:11:38.000 Some Norwegians had sort of pioneered the area and written a book about it.

00:11:41.000 But then, it's not until you get there that you can really decide what you're going to climb and how it looks.

00:11:46.000 I mean, ultimately, you have to look at the rock and see if it's climbable, and so you basically just have to ski up and then touch it and see what you can do and then try to climb it.

00:11:52.000 You ski up?

00:11:53.000 Well, yeah, because you're living on a glacier.

00:11:55.000 I mean, you have to ski everywhere.

00:11:56.000 Wow.

00:11:57.000 Yeah, it was cool.

00:11:58.000 I did a month wearing only ski boots or climbing shoes.

00:12:02.000 Wow.

00:12:03.000 Or my bedroom slippers around camp.

00:12:05.000 What did your feet feel like?

00:12:07.000 Actually, okay.

00:12:08.000 No, wearing really thick socks and then keeping everything as warm as possible, but...

00:12:13.000 But yeah, I mean, wearing climbing shoes in Antarctica is pretty chilly.

00:12:16.000 Yeah, I would imagine.

00:12:17.000 Yeah.

00:12:18.000 Actually, there's a film about that coming out in a couple weeks, I think, as part of the Real Rock Tour.

00:12:23.000 It's like a big climbing film festival thing or film tour that sort of shows around the world.

00:12:28.000 But so it's like a 40-minute short.

00:12:31.000 Or 30-minute short.

00:12:32.000 I haven't seen it yet, but...

00:12:34.000 Those shoes that you wear on a normal climb are very flexible.

00:12:38.000 Are those La Sportivas?

00:12:40.000 Is that what they are?

00:12:40.000 Yeah, that's what I wear, yeah.

00:12:41.000 They almost look like a sock with a rubber bottom to it where you could really kind of grip everything.

00:12:47.000 Yeah, it depends.

00:12:48.000 So some are super soft like that.

00:12:49.000 It depends on what you're trying to climb.

00:12:51.000 Some are really rigid so that you can step on really small holds and it supports your foot.

00:12:55.000 So like what I was wearing, free-soling all cap, is like quite rigid actually.

00:12:58.000 It's like a board, like a platform, so that you can put just the tip of your toe onto something really small and your foot will stay flat.

00:13:05.000 More like a mountaineering type of a boot.

00:13:07.000 Yeah, kind of, but still also very precise, because a mountaineering boot you think clunky and big.

00:13:11.000 A climbing shoe is like a ballet slipper, like precise and tight, but then also rigid sometimes.

00:13:17.000 Yeah.

00:13:18.000 And then also, I don't know, you know, when you're climbing cracks, you put your foot into the crack and then you torque it sideways to like lock it into place.

00:13:24.000 And so the stiffer the shoe is, the more it can, you know, the more that you can lock the shoe into place as opposed to your foot.

00:13:31.000 You basically have to use fewer muscles that way.

00:13:33.000 Are you starting a trend?

00:13:35.000 Are there other people that are following your footsteps now?

00:13:38.000 Actually, what do you think?

00:13:39.000 I think probably, yeah.

00:13:41.000 You think?

00:13:41.000 Yeah.

00:13:42.000 You honestly think that?

00:13:43.000 Yeah, I think there's probably some people that look at what you're doing and young kids that think it must be...

00:13:49.000 You know, here's what I think.

00:13:51.000 Most people look at the path that the average person takes in life.

00:13:55.000 You know, oh, I'm going to sell cars.

00:13:56.000 I'm going to be an insurance guy.

00:13:58.000 And they look at it like it's death.

00:14:01.000 Yeah.

00:14:21.000 It looks like a slow, aching death.

00:14:24.000 But then I look at someone like you, I'm like, wow, this guy is living a special life.

00:14:29.000 This is a special life.

00:14:30.000 So ideally, though, somebody would look at it and see that.

00:14:33.000 Like, this is somebody living a very intentional life or having chosen a certain path.

00:14:37.000 Yes.

00:14:37.000 Not necessarily free-souling.

00:14:39.000 I mean, I would love to inspire people to live an intentional life that they care about.

00:14:42.000 Yes.

00:14:43.000 I don't necessarily feel like people all need to go free-souling.

00:14:46.000 Right.

00:14:47.000 Well, I think that's a very good way of describing it, a very good way of putting it, because I think you most certainly have influenced people in that regard.

00:14:54.000 But I think also people must be influenced in the sense that they see what you're doing is, man, there's moments that you must experience while you are climbing these incredible faces.

00:15:09.000 That are kind of magical.

00:15:11.000 When you're up there, you're a thousand feet up there. 0.80

00:15:14.000 The view is fucking spectacular and you're doing it.

00:15:18.000 And you get to the top of these things. 0.98

00:15:20.000 The rush and the feeling of accomplishment and the euphoria and just the glory of nature from that perspective.

00:15:28.000 Yeah, totally.

00:15:29.000 Like, look at this.

00:15:30.000 Woo! 0.99

00:15:31.000 You could fucking wash your clothes on the sweat that's in my hands right now. 1.00

00:15:38.000 That fucking picture is insane. 1.00

00:15:40.000 We're looking at, what is the name of this photo, Jamie? 1.00

00:15:43.000 It's the Enduro Corner from El Cap.

00:15:48.000 That's actually, that's a movie poster, too. 1.00

00:15:50.000 Fuck, man. 1.00

00:15:51.000 That is so amazing. 1.00

00:15:52.000 So that is not sitting in a cubicle.

00:15:57.000 That is not fluorescent lights.

00:15:59.000 Well, that is the end of a very long path that you have to choose and really cultivate.

00:16:04.000 You know, I mean, that's for me 23 years of sort of going in a, or 22 years or something, of going down a very specific path.

00:16:12.000 Very specific.

00:16:13.000 Do you have a different van, or are you still in the same van?

00:16:17.000 I'm in a better van than last time I was here.

00:16:18.000 Wow, nice.

00:16:19.000 Moving on up.

00:16:19.000 Yeah, I moved up.

00:16:21.000 That's pretty exciting.

00:16:22.000 And I have a house now.

00:16:23.000 Oh, you live like a real person, too?

00:16:25.000 No, I live in Las Vegas now.

00:16:26.000 Do you really?

00:16:27.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:16:27.000 Why Las Vegas?

00:16:29.000 Dude, the best four-season climbing in the country.

00:16:31.000 Really?

00:16:32.000 I love Las Vegas.

00:16:33.000 Yeah, there's climbing everywhere, and it's super accessible, and it's easy, and it's cheap cost of living, no traffic.

00:16:39.000 Everything is easy, but I love Vegas.

00:16:42.000 That's cool.

00:16:43.000 Yeah, whenever I go to Vegas, I always look at the mountains outside of it and like, wow, they're right there and nobody even looks at them.

00:16:49.000 Yeah, from my driveway, you can see 2,000 foot walls.

00:16:52.000 I mean, you can be climbing on a 2,000 foot wall in a 25 minute drive, 20 minute drive.

00:16:56.000 That's interesting.

00:16:57.000 Yeah, a lot of people like to run those mountains too, run those hills.

00:17:01.000 There's a lot of trail runners that live in that area as well.

00:17:03.000 Yeah, totally.

00:17:03.000 Yeah, the west side of town, you're like in the mountains.

00:17:05.000 I mean, I can go mountain biking, I can go hiking, I can go climbing all in 20 minutes.

00:17:09.000 Yeah, Vegas is kind of a misunderstood place.

00:17:11.000 Yeah, no, it really is.

00:17:12.000 Everyone just thinks the strip, but it's like, it's not really the strip.

00:17:15.000 It's like the mountains all around it.

00:17:16.000 Yeah.

00:17:16.000 But Vegas is like in a bowl of mountains.

00:17:18.000 I mean, all sides of it are surrounded by mountains.

00:17:20.000 Well, Nevada in general kind of gets a weird map because of, yeah.

00:17:24.000 I know people think of the desert in Nevada, but really it's mountains.

00:17:27.000 I mean, it's like series of mountain ranges all the way across the state.

00:17:30.000 Yeah, it really is.

00:17:31.000 I have a buddy who lives in Reno.

00:17:32.000 He lives outside of Reno.

00:17:33.000 And if you went near where he lives, you'd be like, where are we?

00:17:36.000 Colorado?

00:17:37.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:17:38.000 Like Tahoe area?

00:17:39.000 Yeah, like Tahoe is right there and Truckee, like Donner.

00:17:42.000 I mean, there's a bunch of climbing areas right there that are great and freaking skiing all winter.

00:17:45.000 It's pretty cool.

00:17:46.000 How old do you know?

00:17:48.000 I'm 33. Do you feel any difference in the way your body responds to doing this on a regular basis now?

00:17:56.000 Maybe a little bit.

00:17:58.000 I hate to say I'm getting old and everything, but I think, especially right now with the film tour, the amount of travel, I'm more intentional about my diet and stuff now and trying to get no sleep and things like that.

00:18:09.000 Certainly, 10 years ago, I could just eat a whole tray of Oreos and be like, all right, I feel great.

00:18:14.000 Let's go climb in the gym.

00:18:16.000 It'll be fun.

00:18:17.000 Now I'm like, oh, man, I want my green smoothie.

00:18:19.000 I want to get my night's sleep.

00:18:20.000 Right.

00:18:21.000 Yeah, I saw that you're not eating meat anymore and that you eat a lot of vegetables.

00:18:27.000 Do you get your blood work done or do you ever work with a nutritionist?

00:18:32.000 No.

00:18:32.000 Do you eat eggs?

00:18:33.000 Yeah, I eat eggs.

00:18:34.000 Okay, good.

00:18:35.000 Yeah, I mean, I have cheese and stuff.

00:18:37.000 Mm-hmm.

00:18:38.000 And I mean, even meat, so I mean, I gave up eating meat for environmental reasons mostly, like basically impact on the earth.

00:18:44.000 And so I'm not fundamentally, you know, like I'll eat meat from time to time, certainly for cultural norms.

00:18:50.000 Like, you know, I was in Japan earlier this year, and so I ate fish there a bit just because I felt like it was part of the sort of Japanese travel experience.

00:18:58.000 If someone hunted it, would you eat it?

00:19:00.000 Yeah, yeah, sometimes.

00:19:02.000 But the thing is, I just don't feel like I need to intentionally kill another creature for me to survive.

00:19:07.000 And so, if somebody was going to go hunting for me to eat, I'd be like, no, that's fine.

00:19:11.000 I'm just, you know, I don't need that.

00:19:13.000 But then, like on an expedition to Antarctica, I ate a bunch of random meat just because it's like, it's already there.

00:19:18.000 You know, the other team members have already brought it.

00:19:20.000 I'm sort of like, well, I'm hungry.

00:19:22.000 I'm going to eat whatever, you know.

00:19:25.000 Molluscs are actually a good thing for people to look into that are vegan or vegetarian and they don't want to eat meat because they're actually more primitive even than vegetables.

00:19:35.000 Molluscs?

00:19:36.000 Yeah, like clams and scallops.

00:19:39.000 They're incredibly primitive.

00:19:41.000 They have no feelings.

00:19:43.000 They don't feel anything.

00:19:45.000 There's an argument that could be made that plants communicate far more than molluscs.

00:19:52.000 Like...

00:19:54.000 Like oysters, mussels.

00:19:57.000 Barnacles.

00:19:58.000 They're real crunchy.

00:19:59.000 But there's a protein to them that's similar to an animal protein, but an incredibly primitive protein.

00:20:05.000 I mean, insect protein, I think, is sort of a potential future of humanity, too.

00:20:10.000 I'm not fundamentally opposed to eating insects, but they're rarely served.

00:20:15.000 But I would just imagine that, particularly as you get older, nutrition would be a major factor, making sure you get the proper amount of essential fatty acids and making sure that...

00:20:27.000 Because your brain must be...

00:20:29.000 You have to fuel your brain in terms of giving your...

00:20:34.000 Your brain, the building blocks for neurotransmitters and all these different things that you're using when you've got this intense concentration for many, many hours at a time.

00:20:44.000 And you're not eating when you're doing these things, right?

00:20:46.000 Sometimes.

00:20:47.000 You do.

00:20:47.000 You stop and you eat something?

00:20:48.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:20:48.000 I mean, you have to.

00:20:49.000 I mean, if you're coming for multiple hours.

00:20:51.000 Sometimes little bars or, you know, nut butter, a fair amount.

00:20:54.000 Nut butter, right.

00:20:56.000 Do you ever have those F-bombs?

00:20:58.000 Do you ever take those?

00:20:59.000 I don't know what that is.

00:20:59.000 What is that?

00:21:00.000 Oh, they're great.

00:21:01.000 I have a whole box of them.

00:21:02.000 I'll give you some.

00:21:03.000 Yeah, it's called F-bomb, like fat bomb, but it's all like nut butter and oils, and it comes in a packet.

00:21:12.000 You just rip the top of the package off and squeeze it in your mouth.

00:21:14.000 I had three of them this morning.

00:21:16.000 Oh, wow.

00:21:16.000 They're really good.

00:21:18.000 It's really healthy.

00:21:19.000 Is there one sitting around?

00:21:20.000 I do have them.

00:21:21.000 I do have them in the back.

00:21:22.000 That's interesting.

00:21:24.000 Yes, that is it.

00:21:26.000 Tell Jeff there's a box of them in my office over there.

00:21:30.000 It's on the floor.

00:21:32.000 You know where the box is?

00:21:33.000 You can go run in and grab them.

00:21:35.000 Go run into that door, run into the office door, and sitting right in the front to the right-hand side, there's a box of them.

00:21:43.000 Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about, the nut butter-wise. 0.99

00:21:45.000 Yeah, I eat the shit out of those things. 0.98

00:21:46.000 I eat like three or four of them in the morning when I'm headed out the door with a cup of coffee. 0.99

00:21:50.000 That's a lot of fat, though.

00:21:52.000 That's just a lot of calories out there.

00:21:54.000 I'm doing this Sober October Fitness Challenge with my friends.

00:21:58.000 I've been working out, no bullshit, as much as five hours in a day because I'm trying to win this.

00:22:05.000 We have a WWE-style championship belt.

00:22:08.000 It says Intercontinental Champion Sober October.

00:22:11.000 Or intergalactic champion.

00:22:13.000 So the sober part though, does that mean you're not...

00:22:15.000 No pot, no booze, no nothing.

00:22:17.000 Oh wow.

00:22:17.000 Yeah, here's...

00:22:18.000 So you're just clean living for all of October and training your freaking brain out. 0.92

00:22:22.000 Yeah, well... 0.98

00:22:23.000 Do you need this huge knife?

00:22:25.000 Use this.

00:22:26.000 We're wearing these belts that measure your heart rate and they also quantify your performance, like how much calories you've burned and...

00:22:35.000 There it is.

00:22:36.000 Hey, you can take that. 1.00

00:22:37.000 That stuff's as shit. 1.00

00:22:38.000 What flavor is that one? 1.00

00:22:39.000 No butter.

00:22:41.000 Macadamia, pecan, sea salt.

00:22:42.000 Fantastic stuff.

00:22:43.000 I like the chocolate and sea salt one too.

00:22:46.000 Yeah, I'll look through and I'll sample each flavor.

00:22:48.000 Yeah, those are good.

00:22:49.000 That's cool.

00:22:49.000 It's a real healthy, it's, you know, just what you, it's really what you need.

00:22:54.000 Actually, that's the ingredients.

00:22:56.000 Oh, yeah.

00:22:57.000 Yeah, no, it seems awesome.

00:22:58.000 And you just smush them up and you tear the top and you just squirt it in your mouth.

00:23:02.000 Yeah, I do that climbing a lot.

00:23:04.000 I kind of prefer that to gels or goo or whatever you want to call it because if that's just pure sugar, I'd kind of prefer to have pure fat.

00:23:11.000 Certainly for climbing, it's just not like running or cycling or something where your engine is burning nonstop where you kind of need to just pump sugar into it.

00:23:20.000 It's kind of a longer slow burn.

00:23:22.000 You can eat fat for sure.

00:23:24.000 Do you ever mess around with nootropics at all?

00:23:27.000 I've never even heard that word.

00:23:28.000 Nootropics are the building blocks for human neurotransmitters.

00:23:33.000 It's like they're supplements that enhance cognitive function.

00:23:37.000 Some of them are like standard, what you would get at like GNC. You wouldn't think of as a nootropic, but they're finding out they are, like creatine.

00:23:46.000 They're finding out creatine is actually a pretty potent nootropic.

00:23:49.000 It actually enhances cognitive performance.

00:23:52.000 But...

00:23:53.000 There's one called Alpha Brain that my company has.

00:23:56.000 I'll send a bunch of it to you.

00:23:57.000 There's another company called Neuro One that makes a great one.

00:24:00.000 You know who Bill Romanowski is?

00:24:02.000 I'm not sure.

00:24:03.000 Former NFL player who took a lot of hits.

00:24:06.000 Is he Patriots?

00:24:07.000 No.

00:24:09.000 Was he?

00:24:10.000 He was mostly on the Broncos.

00:24:11.000 Yeah.

00:24:11.000 Oh, yeah.

00:24:12.000 Savage, crazy animal.

00:24:14.000 And during his day, you know, obviously sustained a lot of head injuries and wanted to find some sort of a natural way to replenish his brain function.

00:24:24.000 So he created this company called Neuro One.

00:24:27.000 And this is how I found out about nootropics, is through his product.

00:24:32.000 It's fantastic.

00:24:33.000 Great stuff.

00:24:34.000 It's just powder.

00:24:34.000 You put it in water, shake it up.

00:24:37.000 It actually has protein.

00:24:39.000 And a bunch of different neurotransmitters in it, but it's really good for enhancing function.

00:24:44.000 Interesting.

00:24:45.000 I wonder if it actually works.

00:24:47.000 Yeah, it does.

00:24:48.000 Well, AlphaBrain, my company, we had two double-blind placebo-controlled studies with the Boston Center for Memory that showed improvements in verbal memory, in reaction time, in peak alpha flow state.

00:25:03.000 What is peak alpha flow state?

00:25:05.000 That's a good question.

00:25:07.000 You have to dive into it.

00:25:10.000 If you go to Onnit.com, all of the tests are available.

00:25:14.000 You can go over what it means.

00:25:18.000 There's another one called True Brain.

00:25:20.000 What is that guy's name?

00:25:21.000 He was a guest to the podcast.

00:25:23.000 Dr. Andrew...

00:25:24.000 No, that's Andy Galpin.

00:25:28.000 My point is, besides my company, there's a bunch of companies that make really good ones.

00:25:33.000 And they're fantastic if you have to give speeches or if you have to talk.

00:25:39.000 If you do any of the things that I do, like commentary on the fight.

00:25:41.000 I've always thought you just go straight cocaine.

00:25:43.000 You get all fired up.

00:25:44.000 You just give a great talk.

00:25:46.000 Anything you're like methamphetamines.

00:25:47.000 You just get all fired up.

00:25:49.000 That's a question I had for you, too.

00:25:51.000 How many people that are doing what you do are on either Adderall or they take things like beta blockers?

00:25:58.000 Honestly, I think nobody.

00:26:00.000 A lot of climbers smoke a lot of weed.

00:26:04.000 Nowadays, I don't even know what you do with it because you don't even have to smoke it.

00:26:07.000 No, you can eat it.

00:26:08.000 Yeah, you drink it and stuff.

00:26:11.000 There's so many cannabis things now.

00:26:13.000 But no, I don't know.

00:26:15.000 I've never really done drugs.

00:26:17.000 I'm not totally interested, so I don't really know anything about it.

00:26:20.000 I don't know.

00:26:21.000 It's interesting because it's not like anyone's drug testing climbers unless they're competing at the World Cup level or it's actually gonna be in the Olympics in 2020. Climbing is?

00:26:28.000 Yeah, climbing is.

00:26:29.000 It's like a demonstration.

00:26:30.000 So did they have an event like in terms of like a pathway that you have to go through?

00:26:36.000 No.

00:26:36.000 So World Cup climbing breaks into three disciplines.

00:26:39.000 It's like lead climbing, which is like same as the indoor wall and then bouldering, which is shorter without a rope.

00:26:44.000 You know, you just climb 12 feet or whatever.

00:26:46.000 And then speed climbing, where it's like a preset course.

00:26:48.000 Everyone does the exact same course, but you just go as fast as you can, just against the timer.

00:26:52.000 And so normally those are three disciplines for the World Cup, but the Olympic format combines all three into one competition because they're limited by how many medals and whatever.

00:27:01.000 Because it's like a demonstration sport, they're just sort of, you know, it's smaller scale than some of the other sports in the Olympics.

00:27:07.000 But so, yeah, so basically climbing competitors just have to do all three disciplines and then see who wins.

00:27:13.000 I was watching something on YouTube where they had this climbing competition where they, like, ready, set, go!

00:27:19.000 And then they, like, shot up the side of this thing.

00:27:21.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:27:21.000 That's the speed climbing.

00:27:22.000 And this lady who's wearing a burqa, is she, like, famous or something?

00:27:27.000 No, I don't know, but there are a bunch of really strong Iranian speed climbers, and so I wouldn't be surprised if it's part of that.

00:27:34.000 She ran up like a spider. 1.00

00:27:36.000 It was crazy to watch.

00:27:37.000 Yeah, for whatever reason, speed climbing is really big in Eastern Europe, and then there are a couple really good Iranian speed climbers.

00:27:46.000 It's sort of its own little niche sport coming out of certain parts of the world.

00:27:49.000 Well, there's some strong genes over there in Iran, like a lot of great wrestlers.

00:27:54.000 I don't know if the woman you're talking about is from there.

00:27:56.000 I'm thinking of one specific dude who is so muscular.

00:27:59.000 Here it is, portrait in speed, Iranian speed climber.

00:28:05.000 Farnas, spell that.

00:28:09.000 Esmailzadeh.

00:28:12.000 I think you pretty much got that.

00:28:14.000 Yeah.

00:28:14.000 Wait, I want to see the video though.

00:28:15.000 I want to see your video really fast.

00:28:16.000 Yeah, see if you can find the video of her. 1.00

00:28:17.000 Because she's a fucking spider, man. 1.00

00:28:21.000 She just runs up the side of that hill. 1.00

00:28:24.000 Oh, he's going to browse the internet.

00:28:26.000 Yeah, so you can find a video.

00:28:27.000 Yeah, anyway, but so with the new Olympic-style climbing, I mean, obviously there'll be drug testing.

00:28:32.000 And with the World Cup, there's drug testing.

00:28:34.000 Right.

00:28:34.000 It's funny, but nobody really uses performance-enhancing drugs, I don't think.

00:28:39.000 You want some coffee or anything?

00:28:40.000 I'm good, thank you.

00:28:41.000 One World Cup climber had a medal taken away for having used recreational cocaine, and he was like, oh, I'm really sorry.

00:28:48.000 I'm sorry I did coke, but he was like, it was more for the partying than the performance.

00:28:51.000 There she is.

00:28:52.000 Look at her.

00:28:53.000 Dude, this lady's... 1.00

00:28:55.000 I mean, for a guy like you, is that impressive?

00:28:58.000 Play that from the beginning.

00:29:01.000 That's pretty fast.

00:29:03.000 That's not as fast.

00:29:04.000 I mean, if you watch some of the more elite times, it's faster, for sure.

00:29:10.000 Women or men? 0.99

00:29:11.000 Both, I think.

00:29:13.000 Women are faster than that? 1.00

00:29:15.000 I think so.

00:29:16.000 I don't know.

00:29:17.000 Wow.

00:29:17.000 I don't know, man.

00:29:18.000 Well, you're the guy who would know. 0.90

00:29:20.000 To me, that's damn impressive. 0.55

00:29:21.000 Just look up a world record. 0.58

00:29:23.000 I mean, I think the male record is like 5 point something seconds or 6 seconds.

00:29:26.000 It's like something really, really fast.

00:29:28.000 Now, do they know this path in advance?

00:29:30.000 Yeah, so that's exactly the same route for everybody, always.

00:29:33.000 Same distance, same holds.

00:29:35.000 And so you basically memorize the sequence, and then you just perform it as fast as you can.

00:29:39.000 So here we go.

00:29:40.000 Here's the world record.

00:29:41.000 Oh, is this the...

00:29:42.000 So you stand on that thing?

00:29:46.000 Yeah, so the timer starts when your one foot comes off the timer on the ground, and then it ends when you slap the thing on the top.

00:29:52.000 Oh my god!

00:29:53.000 Oh my god, that doesn't look real!

00:29:56.000 Yeah, look at that five point whatever seconds.

00:29:58.000 Oh my god, that doesn't look real.

00:30:01.000 Doesn't it look like he's just running like on the sidewalk?

00:30:04.000 It looks like it's flat, like he's on the ground, and they're faking it for the camera.

00:30:09.000 Yeah, no, it's totally.

00:30:11.000 Now, do these guys free solo or did they specifically concentrate on this?

00:30:14.000 No, no, I mean, imagine if you were free soloing like this, you would die for sure.

00:30:20.000 I would think that beta blockers would be something that someone who free solos would want to look into.

00:30:25.000 I don't know.

00:30:26.000 Yeah, I don't know what that is.

00:30:27.000 Beta blockers are something that blocks your brain's production of adrenaline.

00:30:31.000 Oh.

00:30:32.000 But, I mean, I don't know if you'd want that, though, because the thing is, if you have an adrenaline spike, it's because something weird went on, and you probably want to.

00:30:38.000 Like, I've had a couple times where I, like, broke a hold off or something, like, all of a sudden your hold rips off.

00:30:43.000 And then you have that like superhuman surge of like and you grab back on.

00:30:47.000 Yeah, you don't want to be mellow at that time.

00:30:49.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:30:49.000 You don't want to be like, I'm so relaxed as I fall all the way to the valley floor.

00:30:53.000 You know, it's like you want to freaking hold on.

00:30:55.000 One of the things in the film was one of the guys who fell and I guess eventually died.

00:31:00.000 He was doing it and he fell and base jumped.

00:31:03.000 Yeah, with a parachute.

00:31:03.000 He called it free basing.

00:31:05.000 He sort of pioneered that sport as it were.

00:31:09.000 It seems like a good thing to have on your back.

00:31:12.000 Well, not really.

00:31:13.000 So, yeah, I mean, the idea makes sense that if you're going to fall off a cliff, have a parachute.

00:31:17.000 The thing is that you need to be on a very specific kind of cliff, like what he was on, where it was overhanging, so that when he fell, he cleared the wall and he, like, floated out into space.

00:31:25.000 But the thing is, in Yosemite, all the walls are slightly less than vertical, in general, and so it means that you just tumble down the wall.

00:31:32.000 And the other thing is that even if you have a parachute, parachutes function as a wing.

00:31:37.000 They have a direction to them.

00:31:38.000 Air comes into them and you fly in a direction.

00:31:40.000 Which means that you have to be facing away from the wall when you open your parachute.

00:31:43.000 Or else you just fly right into the wall and crash.

00:31:46.000 So it basically means that if you fall off unexpectedly, you then have to track away from the wall, right yourself in midair, correct for everything, and then make sure you're facing the right way.

00:31:56.000 Basically there are a lot of things that have to go right for the parachute to help you.

00:32:00.000 But...

00:32:01.000 Okay.

00:32:01.000 That's not good.

00:32:02.000 Yeah, I mean, a lot of people ask that.

00:32:04.000 They're like, oh, why don't you wear a parachute?

00:32:06.000 And you're like, well, it's basically this 10-pound training weight that doesn't really help you much.

00:32:09.000 That guy just jumped on purpose.

00:32:11.000 Yeah, this is...

00:32:12.000 Oh, whoa.

00:32:15.000 So this is on the Iger though, it looks like, I think.

00:32:18.000 And you can, yeah, so he's like jumping away.

00:32:21.000 He's getting a nice controlled opening.

00:32:23.000 He's like flying away from the cliff.

00:32:25.000 It's like everything is going right for him.

00:32:26.000 But imagine if one of his footholds just broke and he started pinwheeling down the wall.

00:32:30.000 It's like you'd never get the separation from the wall.

00:32:31.000 It would be a disaster.

00:32:34.000 Let's just watch extreme sports videos and I'll just commentate on them the whole time.

00:32:38.000 I'll just be like, alright, well this guy is surely gonna have a disaster.

00:32:42.000 Well, one of the things from the video when they were talking about all the people that have died, that essentially everyone from the past that was a free soloer is dead.

00:32:53.000 And you're saying there's other things that they were doing, like bass jumping?

00:32:57.000 Yeah, like bass jumping.

00:32:58.000 And even there are a couple older soloists.

00:33:00.000 I mean, in the film, Peter Croft is like a legendary soloist and he's a childhood hero of mine.

00:33:06.000 I don't want to say push in 60 because I'm not sure how old Peter is, but he's a distinguished gentleman.

00:33:11.000 He's living in the eastern Sierra.

00:33:13.000 He's climbing all the time.

00:33:14.000 He's loving life with his wife.

00:33:15.000 Actually, he's in Greece on a sport climbing vacation right now, just climbing for two months, just fun climbing with a rope, having a great time.

00:33:23.000 I look at somebody like Peter, and he was free-soling at the very cutting edge for 20 years, basically, and is still just a happy climber now.

00:33:32.000 But does he free solo anymore or just climbs?

00:33:34.000 Well, so it's funny.

00:33:35.000 So I had dinner with him a couple years ago.

00:33:37.000 And I was like, oh, Peter, at what point did you quit soloing at sort of an elite level?

00:33:40.000 You know, like, when did you sort of back off the grades?

00:33:42.000 And he was like, well, actually, I did want to, technically, by the numbers, I did one of my hardest free solos a couple years ago.

00:33:47.000 But it was like a sport route at his local crag.

00:33:49.000 So like a route that he would routinely climb for fitness that just happened to be a pretty hard number.

00:33:54.000 You know, like climbing grades are all sort of categorized.

00:33:56.000 And so...

00:33:57.000 He was like, yeah, technically one of my hardest solos was just recently.

00:34:00.000 But it's like a hard number, but not nearly as much of an undertaking as some of the big solos that he'd done in the past, like some of the walls that he'd soloed in Yosemite back in the day.

00:34:09.000 You know, and so he was like, oh, it's all just kind of how you define difficulty, you know.

00:34:14.000 Now, when you say that there's a number system that sort of rates what, like how difficult a free solo path is.

00:34:21.000 Well, no, that rates climbing in general, with a rope or without a rope.

00:34:24.000 It just rates how hard a climb is.

00:34:26.000 What is El Cap?

00:34:27.000 Well, so the route that I climbed is 512D, for whatever that means.

00:34:31.000 Or maybe it's 13A, depending on what you want to call it.

00:34:36.000 What does that mean?

00:34:38.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:34:39.000 So the climbing grades are defined...

00:34:43.000 I don't know.

00:34:44.000 In America, it's by the Yosemite Decimal System, and it's classification of terrain from 1 to 6. Yosemite Decimal System.

00:34:52.000 Yeah, Decimal System.

00:34:53.000 YDS. Other parts of the world have different systems.

00:34:59.000 In Australia, it's just open-ended numbers from 1 to 38 or something, where they get progressively harder.

00:35:05.000 Oh, there it is right here.

00:35:07.000 Climbing grade comparison.

00:35:08.000 Oh, so there's Yosemite, France.

00:35:10.000 That's interesting that one area...

00:35:11.000 They all do it differently.

00:35:12.000 Well, it's because climbing culture grew up in all different parts of the world.

00:35:16.000 Right.

00:35:16.000 And climbing culture, I guess, is a big part of Yosemite.

00:35:20.000 Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, climbing as a sport in the U.S. is sort of birthed from Yosemite.

00:35:27.000 I mean, the history of alpinism, or rock climbing anyway, certainly comes from Yosemite in the U.S. Is it just because the paths are so cool that it just drew people to it, or...?

00:35:38.000 Yeah, partially.

00:35:39.000 I mean, yeah, the summits are so striking.

00:35:41.000 And I think a lot of it also just had to do with just culture.

00:35:46.000 Because a big part of it was people from L.A. and the Bay Area who probably had some sense of classical alpinism from the Alps.

00:35:52.000 You know, people who had traveled to some extent and then wanted to, you know, climb other mountains.

00:35:56.000 And then they happened to live near one of the most iconic areas in the world.

00:36:00.000 And so then, I don't know.

00:36:01.000 But anyway, so it winds up being called the 70-decimal system.

00:36:04.000 But yeah, so basically it's categories of terrain.

00:36:08.000 So one being walking on a normal trail, two being scrambling a little bit, three being scrambling with your hands and feet up rocks, and then fourth class being sort of like climbing but easier, and then fifth class being actual rock climbing.

00:36:21.000 And so then, it was 5.1 through 9, depending on how hard things are.

00:36:27.000 You know, so 5.1 being pretty easy, 5.9 being pretty hard, like you're rock climbing now, and it's technical.

00:36:32.000 And then at a certain point, that system wasn't adequate, so they had to start adding, you know, 5.10, and then they subdivided into A, B, C, D, and then 5.11, A, B, C, D, and then 5.12.

00:36:43.000 And so now it's an open-ended system that right now goes up to 5.16, basically.

00:36:47.000 Whoa.

00:36:47.000 And LCAP is?

00:36:49.000 It's really complicated.

00:36:50.000 Yeah, but so LCAP is 12D or, you know, 5.12D or maybe 5.13A, which is the next grade up.

00:36:58.000 Wow.

00:37:00.000 But so basically that means that it's elite.

00:37:02.000 Like, that's very difficult and something that, like, obviously an average person can't do.

00:37:06.000 But it's definitely not close to the physical limit of what's been done in the world.

00:37:11.000 But that's with a rope on and that's after, you know, years of practice and...

00:37:14.000 What's the physical limit?

00:37:15.000 Like, what is the peak of...

00:37:17.000 Well, right now, the hardest grade in the world is 15D, which is extremely hard.

00:37:21.000 I mean, it's totally crazy.

00:37:22.000 But so one guy, this Czech guy, has done one route that he called 15D. And so it hasn't been repeated, so it's not like an established consensus.

00:37:29.000 But there are several 15Cs in the world, and there are many 15Bs in the world. 1.00

00:37:34.000 Where is this 15D? It's in a cave in Norway.

00:37:41.000 That's kind of the interesting thing about climbing grades and climbing difficulties is that they're all spread around the world, the very specific cliffs, because it requires just the right combination of angle and holds.

00:37:51.000 There have to be enough things to hold on to, but not too many or else it's easier.

00:37:55.000 And so for an elite climber, they're basically searching the world all the time trying to find that right mixture of rock.

00:38:02.000 Wow, what a strange existence.

00:38:04.000 Yeah, it's really, really niche.

00:38:06.000 Yeah, it's very unusual.

00:38:07.000 But it's also kind of elemental in a way, you know, because rocks are just out there and you're basically just going and exploring nature until you find the right kind of challenge.

00:38:16.000 Well, yeah, there's some sort of a primal satisfaction that comes from climbing something, right?

00:38:21.000 Yeah, there's an elemental quality, for sure, where you're like, this is something that just exists in the world, and you just...

00:38:28.000 Is this it?

00:38:29.000 This is Adam Ander, this Czech kid, climbing 15 feet.

00:38:32.000 God.

00:38:33.000 Documentary coming out about it, I guess.

00:38:34.000 No, it's already out.

00:38:35.000 It's a short online.

00:38:36.000 It's called Silence?

00:38:37.000 Yeah.

00:38:37.000 Yeah, the route he put up he called silence.

00:38:40.000 But if this is the film, just scrub all the way to the very...

00:38:42.000 Oh, that's the trailer.

00:38:44.000 Yeah, but so you can see he's climbing feet first through some of it, and it's totally extreme.

00:38:48.000 So this guy, Adam Ondra, is for sure the strongest climber in the world right now.

00:38:52.000 Like physical?

00:38:53.000 Yeah, physically.

00:38:54.000 So he put up the world's first 15C and the first 15D. So he's basically pushed the edge of difficulty for the last several grades.

00:39:01.000 Wow.

00:39:02.000 And he's just freakishly strong.

00:39:05.000 Wow.

00:39:05.000 Is that something that you would have to be to do what he's doing?

00:39:09.000 Like a regular climber couldn't do what he's doing?

00:39:12.000 It's almost like acrobatic involved?

00:39:14.000 Yeah, look what he's doing right there.

00:39:16.000 Oh my god.

00:39:17.000 So this is the world's first 15C. So slightly easier.

00:39:21.000 He did this several years ago.

00:39:22.000 Oh my god.

00:39:24.000 And then you hear him like, yeah, but that's why he has a rope, you know, and he tries that over and over and over.

00:39:29.000 But, yeah, he's an amazing climber.

00:39:31.000 He's really, he's like a polymath.

00:39:33.000 He's like, he's great at every discipline.

00:39:36.000 What else does he do?

00:39:38.000 Well, so he, um, have you heard of the Don Wall on El Cap?

00:39:41.000 No.

00:39:42.000 Um, so Tommy Caldwell, you know who he is?

00:39:44.000 No.

00:39:44.000 Another professional climber.

00:39:46.000 Um, he's, he's, he was, I don't know, yeah, he's basically one of America's best climbers.

00:39:51.000 He did this route called the Don Wall.

00:39:54.000 Which is also a film in theaters, or was in theaters last month.

00:39:57.000 It's sort of random that two big climbing films came out at exactly the same time, but it's just one of those freak things.

00:40:02.000 But so the Dawn Wall was considered the hardest climb in the world to some extent.

00:40:07.000 It's his thing.

00:40:08.000 It was a seven-year project for him up the right side of El Cap.

00:40:10.000 The thing I climbed was on the left side of El Cap.

00:40:12.000 He climbed something on the right side, which is much harder, but he was using a rope and put seven years of work into it.

00:40:18.000 Seven years.

00:40:19.000 Yeah, and then this guy, Adam Hunter, who we're watching a video of, he did the second ascent.

00:40:23.000 And he put like a month of work into it and repeated it.

00:40:26.000 And you're just like, whoa, he's really, really strong.

00:40:29.000 Wow.

00:40:29.000 So when you see a guy do something like that, does that make you think about doing it?

00:40:35.000 Or do you go, that's only something that someone can do with ropes?

00:40:39.000 Yeah.

00:40:39.000 Oh, yeah.

00:40:40.000 No, I mean, there are whole categories of climbing that can only be done with a rope because the moves are way too insecure.

00:40:45.000 You fall off way too often.

00:40:47.000 How often did that guy fall off doing that?

00:40:50.000 Oh, like hundreds or maybe even thousands of times.

00:40:52.000 I mean, so for him to do something at the...

00:40:58.000 I mean, to climb at the very highest levels of human potential.

00:41:02.000 I mean, so think about a gymnast or something.

00:41:04.000 Is that him right there?

00:41:05.000 Yeah, that's him.

00:41:05.000 So he's free soloing.

00:41:06.000 No, no, no.

00:41:07.000 He has a harness on.

00:41:08.000 Yeah, he's got a rope right there.

00:41:09.000 Yeah, no, I mean, look at what he's holding.

00:41:11.000 He's only with his one finger.

00:41:13.000 No, well, I think his other one might be on too, but it's basically like a tiny, tiny, tiny edge.

00:41:18.000 This is the crux of one of the pitches on the Donwall.

00:41:20.000 That is so insane.

00:41:23.000 That guy could probably crush your head by just grabbing it. 0.97

00:41:26.000 Certainly, he has a certain ferocity.

00:41:28.000 He has an intensity where he can try with like 115%.

00:41:31.000 So I'm pretty sure if he grabbed your head and tried his hardest, it would just pop like a little melon.

00:41:37.000 Imagine the grip strength.

00:41:39.000 He's holding on to such tiny, tiny little things.

00:41:42.000 Yeah, he's very, very strong.

00:41:45.000 Wow, man.

00:41:46.000 So, a guy like that, when you see him do these paths, these paths are paths you can only do with a rope.

00:41:53.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:41:54.000 Does he free solo as well?

00:41:56.000 I don't think he ever has.

00:41:59.000 It's not really his thing.

00:42:01.000 And the thing, in some ways, it's really hard to do both at a high level.

00:42:04.000 And I think, or at least to some extent, it's hard to do both at a high level.

00:42:08.000 Because, so, for him...

00:42:20.000 Yeah.

00:42:21.000 Yeah.

00:42:27.000 But with freestalling, you have to always keep it sort of within your comfort zone because you don't want to die doing it.

00:42:31.000 So, I mean, I think that I've always sort of kept my personal, like on your personal barometer of effort, I sort of live between four and seven, let's say, or like, you know, three and a half and seven maybe, where it's like you're never too relaxed, but you're also never going to the absolute death.

00:42:47.000 Or sort of like in the four to six is a sweet spot where you're like, oh, I'm climbing, I'm having a good time, but I'm not like trying too hard and I'm not too relaxed.

00:42:53.000 Right.

00:42:54.000 But so somebody like Adam Onder or Tommy Caldwell, like I've climbed with Tommy a lot over the years.

00:42:58.000 He's a great climber.

00:42:59.000 And I've really seen this because he, like I've seen him just randomly fall off many times because he just like slipped.

00:43:06.000 He's like, oh, I'm so relaxed.

00:43:07.000 It's so easy.

00:43:08.000 And then I'm like, oh, I slipped.

00:43:09.000 And that's kind of like an effort of one where you're like your body is so relaxed that if anything happens, then you fall.

00:43:14.000 And with a rope on, that's fine.

00:43:16.000 In some ways, that's the more efficient way to climb because, you know, you're so relaxed most of the time that you're saving a lot of energy over all that.

00:43:22.000 Every once in a while when you fall, it's like, who cares?

00:43:24.000 The rope catches you.

00:43:25.000 It's no problem.

00:43:26.000 But you have to trust those little things that you stick in the cracks to hold the ropes.

00:43:30.000 But that's like, I mean, that's, yeah, that's climbing.

00:43:32.000 What is he doing there?

00:43:34.000 He's counter-pressuring his leg into this crack to rest.

00:43:37.000 He's basically pushing his knee into the rock in order to relax his arms for a minute.

00:43:41.000 But his whole body is leaning backwards.

00:43:44.000 Yeah, so he's hanging upside down.

00:43:45.000 Basically, every muscle in his body is relaxed except for his calf, and his calf is forcing his knee into the rock, which holds him in place.

00:43:50.000 So he's just hanging there about one knee.

00:43:52.000 That is so insane.

00:43:54.000 That photo is so insane.

00:43:56.000 Yeah, that's a really efficient way to rest.

00:43:58.000 What?

00:43:58.000 To rest your arms.

00:44:00.000 Well, because it's really hard to hold on.

00:44:03.000 Well, you know.

00:44:04.000 No, I mean, for him, it's like, for him to be able to rest like that for one minute is an amazing way to rest your arms for a minute, but then it sort of saps your core and it makes his calf really tired, obviously.

00:44:12.000 Now, does he lift weights or anything to prepare for these things?

00:44:17.000 I don't know what he's doing.

00:44:19.000 He's on his own program.

00:44:20.000 But it's really climate specific.

00:44:22.000 He's mostly doing things with his fingers.

00:44:24.000 Yeah, he's pretty jacked.

00:44:26.000 Is that even him?

00:44:27.000 That's crazy.

00:44:27.000 That's a weird...

00:44:28.000 Yeah, it's the same route.

00:44:30.000 That's interesting.

00:44:30.000 I've never seen that photo.

00:44:32.000 But I mean, I guess you just get jacked from doing that too, though.

00:44:35.000 Just constantly pulling yourself up.

00:44:37.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:44:39.000 There's a climbing wall at this local kid's place, and I told my daughter I'd give her $100 so she could make it all the way to the other side.

00:44:47.000 It's pretty difficult.

00:44:49.000 And so she's become obsessed with trying to get over there to get $100. 1.00

00:44:53.000 That's definitely jacked.

00:44:54.000 I mean, look at that. 0.96

00:44:55.000 He's jacked! 0.82

00:44:55.000 Your daughter's going to wind up super ripped. 0.82

00:44:57.000 It's hard to do, man.

00:44:58.000 I tried to do it, and I couldn't do it.

00:45:00.000 I was like, wow, this is really hard.

00:45:02.000 It's difficult to do.

00:45:04.000 I bet if you tried a bit, just because you have such a background in movement and fitness and everything, I bet it wouldn't be that hard for you.

00:45:11.000 Yeah, I'm pretty heavy though for someone who's short.

00:45:15.000 That would be an issue is hanging.

00:45:17.000 I'm 200 pounds right now.

00:45:18.000 In theory, climbing should be more in your legs anyway.

00:45:21.000 You should be driving with your legs.

00:45:22.000 Because no matter what, your legs are always bigger and stronger muscles in your arms.

00:45:26.000 So that's always what drives you upward.

00:45:28.000 And then your arms should only be holding your weight in and keeping you balanced over your feet, basically.

00:45:33.000 That's interesting.

00:45:34.000 That's something that they figured out fairly recently with grappling over the last like 10-15 years with jujitsu and things along those lines that your legs, it's really important to use mostly your legs when you're grappling.

00:45:47.000 Yeah, totally.

00:45:47.000 I can see that.

00:45:48.000 I mean, that's what's driving you forward and pushing the hole.

00:45:51.000 Controlling your opponent and manipulating your opponent and doing stuff with your legs.

00:45:55.000 Do you do anything to cross-train?

00:45:59.000 Like, not really, no.

00:46:00.000 No?

00:46:00.000 I mean, I do other mountain sports, a little, you know, mountain biking or skiing or things like that.

00:46:04.000 But you do it for fun.

00:46:05.000 Yeah, for fun.

00:46:06.000 And then the only real cross-training I do is just sort of like a push-up and core type routine, you know, like opposition training, just to maintain a healthy body.

00:46:17.000 Oh, because you're constantly pulling?

00:46:18.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:46:19.000 I'm always pulling for my sport, so then I try to do a little bit of pushing and core just to make sure that things stay balanced out.

00:46:24.000 Now, is that something you talk to a physical therapist about, or...?

00:46:27.000 No, that's just, I mean, that's just basic physiology.

00:46:30.000 I mean, if you only pull, you have to push sometimes or else you wind up all imbalanced and injured.

00:46:35.000 Well, I saw that one of the things in the film was when you were recovering from your ankle sprain.

00:46:40.000 And, you know, you had said that you really hadn't been injured in years.

00:46:44.000 Then all of a sudden you have this girlfriend and she doesn't climb and you get injured.

00:46:49.000 Yeah, that actually is just freak.

00:46:52.000 Freak timing, bad luck.

00:46:54.000 Yeah, it's just unfortunate.

00:46:55.000 Because I think really it just shows that I've been really fortunate for 20 years that I've had very few injuries climbing.

00:47:00.000 And then, you know, at some point you just have a few.

00:47:02.000 I mean, that's just life to some extent.

00:47:04.000 But when you do have something like that and you feel sort of the vulnerability of your tissue and you think about like, hey, what if this happened halfway up some fucking insane path?

00:47:18.000 No, the bigger thing in the film, I have a back injury earlier where I get lowered off the end of the rope and fall.

00:47:24.000 I only fell maybe 10 or 12 feet, you know, sort of like the height of this room basically.

00:47:29.000 But I landed sort of like folded over this rock backward.

00:47:32.000 It was like totally horrible, like these jagged boulders.

00:47:34.000 And so I didn't go that far.

00:47:37.000 But I was like, oh, you know, I got worked.

00:47:40.000 And it was really sobering because it made me realize that if I fell from, you know, 40 feet climbing, you know, you could, it could be, yeah, I mean, it'd be a disaster.

00:47:49.000 You know, basically, it made me realize just how fragile my body is because I'm like, oh, I only fell little tiny ways and it like really hurt.

00:47:56.000 You know, it's like pretty bad.

00:47:58.000 I was like, man, if you fell much further, you could, you could, yeah, anything could happen.

00:48:02.000 Yeah, people step off stairs wrong and blow their ankle.

00:48:08.000 It's very strange.

00:48:09.000 The body's so fragile.

00:48:11.000 It's really amazing.

00:48:12.000 Yeah, well, it's funny, but it's so fragile, but then also so robust in some ways.

00:48:15.000 I mean, it's amazing what the human body can adapt to or withstand.

00:48:18.000 But then, yeah, and then some things just can't.

00:48:21.000 Yeah, that's why I was asking you about your age.

00:48:23.000 Like, as you get older, are you seeing a difference in the way you recover?

00:48:27.000 Are you seeing a difference in the way, you know, like...

00:48:31.000 What you feel like your potential is.

00:48:34.000 Yeah, it's hard to say.

00:48:36.000 I think, yeah, I don't know.

00:48:37.000 I mean, those are the tough questions.

00:48:39.000 I mean, you know, I'm sure you think about that stuff too.

00:48:41.000 Well, as a fighter, a fighter at your age, 33, you said?

00:48:45.000 Yeah.

00:48:45.000 That's when you start tailing off.

00:48:48.000 Like winding down.

00:48:49.000 34, 35. When a fighter hits like 36, like yikes.

00:48:53.000 Is that old for a fighter?

00:48:55.000 Yeah, that's pretty old.

00:48:57.000 It's very rare.

00:48:58.000 There's only a few guys who've been able to compete at a world-class level past that.

00:49:02.000 In MMA, Randy Couture stands out.

00:49:04.000 In boxing, Bernard Hopkins stands out.

00:49:06.000 How old is Floyd Mayweather?

00:49:09.000 40. He's 40?

00:49:10.000 Yeah.

00:49:10.000 Is he still considered fighting at an elite level?

00:49:14.000 Well, you know, when he fought Conor McGregor, Conor McGregor was nowhere near his level because Conor McGregor wasn't really a boxer.

00:49:20.000 Yeah, he's not a boxer, right?

00:49:21.000 Yeah, and so Floyd just kind of worked him.

00:49:25.000 But he hasn't really fought at a world-class level for a couple years.

00:49:30.000 Because, you know, he beat Canelo Alvarez several years ago and he made Canelo drop a ton of weight.

00:49:36.000 When he beat Manny Pacquiao, Manny Pacquiao was quite a bit past his prime and had a shoulder injury.

00:49:41.000 So you're probably dealing with like three years or so since he's fought like real world-class competition.

00:49:49.000 When you say you made him drop a bunch of weight, how does that work?

00:49:52.000 He was very clever.

00:49:54.000 He wanted him to fight at a lower weight class.

00:49:58.000 Floyd started off his career, I want to say at 130, then he fought at 135. How big is he?

00:50:07.000 He's very small.

00:50:08.000 He's like 5'6", 5'7", maybe?

00:50:11.000 Maybe 5'7".

00:50:13.000 And tiny little hands.

00:50:15.000 Very small hands.

00:50:16.000 But apparently they hit very hard.

00:50:18.000 Well, he's not a knockout artist.

00:50:19.000 He's just a genius boxer.

00:50:22.000 Probably one of the best defensive...

00:50:23.000 If not the best, definitely top two or three defensive boxers of all time.

00:50:28.000 He's only been really hit hard to the point where he's been wobbled maybe like four times in his entire career.

00:50:35.000 It seems like that's the kind of boxer you want to be.

00:50:38.000 Exactly.

00:50:38.000 You don't want to be like the Rocky Balboa-style boxer that just gets beaten to death and then claws back.

00:50:42.000 You want to be boring.

00:50:44.000 Really.

00:50:45.000 That's like freaking watching NFL games with good defense and you're like, oh man, it's not the team you want to watch, but it's probably the better team.

00:50:52.000 Yeah.

00:50:53.000 Well, especially with boxing because the consequences are so grave.

00:50:57.000 If you hit a lot.

00:50:58.000 There's a horrible video that I put up on YouTube or on Twitter rather that I retweeted.

00:51:03.000 Someone sent me.

00:51:04.000 And it's boxers when they're young talking versus after injuries.

00:51:10.000 And you're watching and you're like, whoa.

00:51:12.000 It's stunning.

00:51:14.000 That's like NFL stuff too, I mean.

00:51:17.000 It's funny.

00:51:18.000 I mean, people talk about that with climbing.

00:51:19.000 It's like, oh, it's such a dangerous sport.

00:51:20.000 But the thing about rock climbing is that it's basically a completely safe sport right up until some kind of accident may happen, and then you potentially die.

00:51:28.000 But so the thing is, you can basically climb at a high level for 50 years and never have any issues, or you could maybe die doing it.

00:51:34.000 But it's kind of a fundamentally safe sport for the most part, as opposed to what we're talking about, like fighting or football or things like that, or even mountain biking, where you're for sure going to get injured no matter what, just by playing the game.

00:51:49.000 I think things like football and fighting, they creep up on you.

00:51:53.000 Like the injuries start to pile.

00:51:55.000 Well, but basically just even in practice, you are getting injured.

00:51:58.000 Constantly.

00:51:58.000 You know, and so it's, I mean, that's kind of messed up.

00:52:00.000 It's like just the price of entry is going to be, you know, freaking head injuries.

00:52:05.000 Yeah, I went to a football game the other day, a high school football game.

00:52:08.000 And when I was there, I had a really hard time watching it because everybody's cheering.

00:52:14.000 And I was talking to my friend.

00:52:15.000 I'm like, you're looking at brain damage.

00:52:17.000 Yeah, no, it's messed up.

00:52:18.000 These kids are getting brain damage.

00:52:19.000 And this is like a really nice private school where they pay a lot of money to get the kids into this program.

00:52:27.000 And then the kids are playing football.

00:52:29.000 They're all getting brain damage.

00:52:31.000 He goes, really?

00:52:31.000 I go, 100%.

00:52:32.000 I go, did you see that collision?

00:52:34.000 I go, that's brain damage.

00:52:36.000 That's definitely brain damage.

00:52:37.000 It might not be a lot.

00:52:38.000 They might be okay.

00:52:39.000 But how many of those do they do in a day?

00:52:41.000 How many do they do in a week?

00:52:43.000 How many a month?

00:52:44.000 How many in a year?

00:52:44.000 You're like, what a waste of human potential right there.

00:52:46.000 It really is.

00:52:47.000 I mean, the problem is it's such a grand part of our history and our culture.

00:52:52.000 Well, it doesn't really need to be.

00:52:54.000 I mean, football hasn't existed that long.

00:52:56.000 Yeah, no, I agree.

00:52:57.000 I mean, I don't watch it.

00:52:59.000 Dude, I watched a rodeo from, like, very, very close, basically, like, from the commentator's box, like, above the pens for the 4th of July rodeo in Wyoming, like, two summers ago.

00:53:11.000 And that was something that I was like, this is messed up.

00:53:14.000 I mean, and I'm not, like, a huge animal rights guy, but I'm vegetarian, obviously, and I sort of care.

00:53:18.000 And I was like, oh, you know, you're kind of abusing these animals for sport.

00:53:21.000 And that's, like, that doesn't...

00:53:23.000 You sit that well with me.

00:53:25.000 But what was even worse is I was like, all these young men are getting worked just like for the entertainment.

00:53:29.000 It was totally like Roman Gladiator type stuff.

00:53:31.000 And I was just like...

00:53:32.000 And it's weird because it's so cultural, you know, because...

00:53:34.000 And, you know, I mean, I can empathize because obviously I'm doing something that's also sort of...

00:53:39.000 I think?

00:53:58.000 It's a dark path.

00:54:00.000 I mean, we watched this guy get freaking thrown off this bull.

00:54:02.000 And he was fine.

00:54:04.000 He landed on the ground.

00:54:05.000 But then the bull freaking was charging him.

00:54:07.000 And the guy...

00:54:08.000 I've never seen human terror.

00:54:10.000 He basically just turned and ran as fast as he could.

00:54:12.000 But he ran straight into this post. 0.97

00:54:14.000 Head first into this freaking steel post. 0.86

00:54:16.000 Like the edge of the...

00:54:17.000 Because he just didn't, you know, it was like, the bull's coming at him, he like turns and runs, and he basically like knocks himself out against this pose, and thankfully the clowns distracted the bull, and then the pyramid, like thankfully there was a freaking ambulance basically parked on the other side of the fence from what he ran into, and so they basically like lift him over and put him straight on the stretcher and like take him away,

00:54:36.000 you know?

00:54:36.000 But I was like, dude, and you know the crowd's all like, Yeah, and you're just like, that guy's messed up.

00:54:42.000 Everything about it made me feel kind of gross, you know?

00:54:46.000 Yeah, it's not good.

00:54:47.000 I would never want to pay to watch somebody hurt themselves.

00:54:50.000 I don't know.

00:54:51.000 Well, it's weird that that's culturally acceptable, but bullfighting is not.

00:54:56.000 That's where we draw a line.

00:54:57.000 Yeah, bull riding.

00:54:58.000 It's like they're freaking tasing the bulls. 0.97

00:55:00.000 Aren't they tying off their balls and they're doing all kinds of things? 0.98

00:55:02.000 They're doing some bad things. 0.98

00:55:04.000 People argue that the bulls have great lives.

00:55:06.000 They feed them well and they get a lot of exercise and they're very happy bulls.

00:55:09.000 And you're like, dude, I'm pretty sure they'd rather be roaming the open plains like inseminating cows.

00:55:14.000 Yeah, that's a weird justification.

00:55:17.000 Yeah.

00:55:17.000 We had a guy on Fear Factor once that was a professional rodeo guy, and his shoulder was like a topographic map.

00:55:25.000 He had so many scars in his shoulder, and he told me his shoulder would just pop out.

00:55:30.000 He could just pop it out left and right.

00:55:33.000 Just being destroyed.

00:55:34.000 Like gored by bulls?

00:55:36.000 Falling and getting it ripped apart, riding bulls.

00:55:40.000 Yeah, I just don't get that.

00:55:42.000 It just wasn't working anymore.

00:55:43.000 I mean, he had a bunch of surgeries and they tried to screw it back together and tighten things down, but it was just destroyed. 0.91

00:55:49.000 I'm sure a bull rider would look at free soloing and be like, what a crazy dude!

00:55:53.000 You know, everybody looks at another sport and they're like, that's crazy.

00:55:55.000 And honestly, I look at fighting and I'm like, that seems totally outrageous.

00:55:58.000 I'm like, why would you want some other dude beating you to death in a cage?

00:56:01.000 I'm like, that's crazy. 0.87

00:56:02.000 It is outrageous.

00:56:03.000 It is outrageous.

00:56:04.000 But if you can get good enough or you can avoid most of the damage.

00:56:08.000 Yeah, getting beaten on you.

00:56:09.000 Yeah.

00:56:09.000 And then to land the damage.

00:56:12.000 It's kind of the same.

00:56:13.000 But even landing the damage to a certain extent, you're like, oh, you're hurting somebody else for the pleasure of the crowd.

00:56:17.000 You're like, that's kind of messed up.

00:56:20.000 It's a very weird feeling.

00:56:22.000 Knocking someone out is one of the weirdest feelings.

00:56:25.000 Because part of you is happy that it's not you, but part of you is looking down at that guy that's just got flatlined, and you're like, whoa, that could have been me.

00:56:36.000 How much do fighters, like, hold back?

00:56:38.000 You know, because I feel like you kind of have to, like, go to the death, but then if you actually, like, punch somebody so hard they died or something, I mean, obviously you'd feel horrible, right?

00:56:45.000 Well, you don't hold back at all.

00:56:47.000 Well, that's what I'm saying, but so it's like you don't hold back at all, but then if you actually killed somebody, wouldn't you feel horrible?

00:56:53.000 It's very rare that someone dies in mixed martial arts, believe it or not.

00:56:56.000 Well, yeah, no, I mean, I know that, but it's possible.

00:56:59.000 It's definitely possible.

00:57:01.000 And it has happened, and it's sort of like...

00:57:02.000 It has happened very, very rarely in mixed martial arts, never in the UFC. But in boxing, it happens more often.

00:57:10.000 And one of the reasons why it happens more often in boxing is because you're only punching.

00:57:14.000 In MMA, you're taking people down.

00:57:16.000 Yeah, people are tapping out because they're panning in weird ways.

00:57:18.000 Yeah.

00:57:18.000 Well, it's also there's more options to defend yourself.

00:57:21.000 You're not just getting battered against the ropes. 0.98

00:57:24.000 They're also, nowadays, much better at stopping a fight when a fighter's clearly compromised, when they're really fucked up. 0.87

00:57:32.000 In the old days, they used to let guys just get battered. 0.93

00:57:35.000 They used to, you know, in boxing matches.

00:57:37.000 Yeah, that doesn't sit well with me.

00:57:38.000 I'm just like, ah.

00:57:39.000 But that's why I'm not a fighter.

00:57:41.000 Well, you're right.

00:57:42.000 That's the thing about climbing is there's this real elemental appeal to just you and the mountain and it's nature and it's beautiful and it's like very peaceful and calm.

00:57:51.000 It's like so different than having thousands of people screaming at you as you punch some guy in the face over and over.

00:57:55.000 It's like, dude, that's just, that's not my scene.

00:57:59.000 Well, did you see the Conor McGregor-Khabib Nurmagomedov fight where there's the big fight outside the cage?

00:58:04.000 Oh, is that the thing where the guy vaults out of the cage and starts brawling?

00:58:08.000 I was like, yeah, it's like WWE or whatever.

00:58:10.000 It was like when they start breaking tables over people.

00:58:12.000 Crazier than that because it was real.

00:58:14.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:58:15.000 I was like, this is totally outrageous.

00:58:16.000 But what's funny is...

00:58:18.000 It became chaos because a fight erupted outside of the parameters of the fight.

00:58:25.000 It was just more fighting.

00:58:26.000 Yeah.

00:58:26.000 Like, you'd seen fighting...

00:58:28.000 Yeah, like, this isn't what we paid for.

00:58:29.000 This isn't okay.

00:58:30.000 Right.

00:58:30.000 Everybody's like, fighting in the cage is fine.

00:58:33.000 This is lovely.

00:58:34.000 But he goes out of the cage.

00:58:35.000 Oh, my God.

00:58:36.000 He's out in the wild.

00:58:37.000 He's out in the world fighting.

00:58:39.000 Isn't that kind of messed up?

00:58:40.000 Yeah.

00:58:40.000 It's definitely messed up.

00:58:41.000 You're like, he's a professional fighter.

00:58:42.000 He's fighting.

00:58:43.000 That's what he does.

00:58:44.000 It's weird.

00:58:46.000 Listen, this is coming from someone who's been involved in this my whole life.

00:58:49.000 It's weird.

00:58:50.000 I absolutely see all the arguments against it. 0.97

00:58:54.000 And yet you still want to go train and punch people in the face.

00:58:57.000 Well, I don't punch anybody in the face anymore. 0.80

00:58:59.000 I still choke people.

00:59:01.000 That seems totally fine then, huh?

00:59:03.000 Well, the thing about the jiu-jitsu aspect of it is you really can tap out and stop and you don't really get hurt.

00:59:10.000 The only time you get hurt training jiu-jitsu is accidental for the most part.

00:59:14.000 You're actually better off training with a black belt than you are with a white belt.

00:59:19.000 Totally, because, yeah, no, I get that.

00:59:20.000 Because they have more control.

00:59:22.000 Yeah, they'll be fine with you.

00:59:24.000 They'll just tap you.

00:59:25.000 Yeah, there's a white belt accident that kicks you in the face, and you're like, ah, I thought we were in the spark. 0.99

00:59:29.000 They're really strong, especially if you get a white belt that's like a crossfitter, a fucking jacked, really strong guy. 1.00

00:59:34.000 He's like, I thought we were just grappling, and then his arm came out, and I don't know what to do with it, so I threw it away. 0.98

00:59:40.000 I don't know.

00:59:40.000 Yeah, a really unskilled guy who's extremely strong, who's learning technique, and is also like a spaz, is very dangerous to roll with.

00:59:49.000 So, yeah, you don't want to teach me jiu-jitsu is what you're saying.

00:59:52.000 Not me, but someone...

00:59:53.000 If you did it with me, we'd be fine.

00:59:55.000 But if you did it with someone who's a real beginner, who's, you know...

01:00:00.000 No, I'm saying I'm the strong beginner.

01:00:01.000 Yeah, but that's okay.

01:00:02.000 Very strong grip and no idea what I'm doing.

01:00:03.000 Just like, ah.

01:00:04.000 Yeah, but the real problem would be if we were both beginners.

01:00:07.000 That would be the real problem.

01:00:09.000 A strong spaz is not going to work against a black belt. 1.00

01:00:15.000 That's the learning curve for climbing, too.

01:00:17.000 You don't want two beginners going out and trying to climb a mountain together. 0.97

01:00:20.000 Yeah, I wouldn't worry about...

01:00:22.000 I would worry about that, like, if you're climbing, do you ever climb, like, is there a chain, like, one person in front of you?

01:00:30.000 Yeah, yeah, I mean, so, yeah, when you climb up the rope, it's basically two people.

01:00:33.000 One goes out first and then brings up the second, because you're limited by the length of the rope, so basically one person goes out to the end of the rope, brings up the next person, that person climbs through, brings up the second.

01:00:41.000 So are you dependent upon the holes that they put in when they put those bolts into the cracks?

01:00:46.000 So bolts and things are put in by the first ascensionist, so the very first person to have ever climbed the route.

01:00:51.000 But then everybody thereafter is able to just clip their equipment into the bolts or use pre-established anchors, things like that.

01:00:59.000 So all the routes are already established, and you can read a book that shows all the different routes.

01:01:04.000 So El Capitan has something like 112 different routes of it.

01:01:19.000 Wow.

01:01:28.000 So of the 100 routes on El Cap, you know, something like 90 of them, you have to pull on the hardware.

01:01:33.000 You have to like clip little ladders into it and step on, you know, you have to hammer pitons in and then clip into them and stand on them and hammer another piton and step on that.

01:01:40.000 Oh, because there's no footfalls.

01:01:42.000 Yeah, there's just nothing to hold on to.

01:01:43.000 It's too hard.

01:01:44.000 Oh, wow.

01:01:45.000 So then there, yeah, something like 10 or 15 free climbing routes where you can climb it.

01:01:49.000 And so with my big goal of trying to freestyle El Cap to climb it without a rope, I was limited to just those 10 or 15 routes that are possible to climb just with your hands and feet.

01:01:58.000 And how did you establish the one that you wanted to proceed on?

01:02:01.000 Yeah, so basically, I just wound up doing the easiest one, because basically it's really hard to free climb El Cap by any means, and so the easiest one wound up being the most secure, the best one for me.

01:02:12.000 How many people have done it?

01:02:14.000 Well, free solo or free climb?

01:02:16.000 Free solo.

01:02:16.000 Free solo, I mean, nobody.

01:02:18.000 You're the only one?

01:02:18.000 Yeah, the only one.

01:02:19.000 Yeah, I mean, that's why there's the film and everything.

01:02:22.000 And nobody's ever even thought about it, you know, nobody's considered it.

01:02:25.000 It's not like something that people are trying to do.

01:02:28.000 Now that you've done it, are there other people that are considering it?

01:02:30.000 I really don't.

01:02:31.000 I mean, I think it's almost more the opposite.

01:02:32.000 Now that I've done it, people are like, whoa, I don't need to do that ever.

01:02:35.000 I mean, there's nobody even playing this game right now, really.

01:02:39.000 There aren't that many high-end free soloists right now.

01:02:41.000 How many are there?

01:02:43.000 2 or 1 or something.

01:02:45.000 Really?

01:02:46.000 I mean, I don't know.

01:02:46.000 I don't know if there are any others really right now.

01:02:49.000 There's this guy, Brad Gobright, an American guy who's been free-selling at a pretty high level.

01:02:53.000 But definitely, he's a really good friend of mine, so I'm not like slandering him.

01:02:56.000 But definitely at a very different level than, like he would never even dream of selling all-cap.

01:03:02.000 So he's sort of starting out?

01:03:04.000 Well, it's not that he's starting out.

01:03:05.000 I mean, he's a very good climber.

01:03:06.000 He's been climbing a long time, and he's done all kinds of very difficult things.

01:03:10.000 But in terms of free soloing, I think he just doesn't need to push it that hard.

01:03:15.000 So he's almost like he dabbles in free soloing?

01:03:18.000 Yeah, well, I mean, I dabble in free-soling as well.

01:03:21.000 I mean, mostly I'm climbing with my friends, doing other things.

01:03:24.000 You know, I mean, I think most, almost all climbers only dabble in free-soling.

01:03:28.000 I mean, free-soling is sort of like one discipline of climbing.

01:03:31.000 Like, when we were talking earlier about the Olympics having multiple disciplines, you know, there are many types of climbing, and most climbers do all of them to some extent, and free-soling always represents sort of this small specialty, like, extra style.

01:03:43.000 So you do free climbing, and then you also do the kind of climbing where you have to put in those posts and stand on them?

01:03:49.000 Yeah, or aid climbing, artificial climbing.

01:03:51.000 So I free climb, I aid climb sometimes.

01:03:53.000 I don't like to because it's too much work.

01:03:55.000 It's too much construction.

01:03:56.000 You're nailing things and standing on it.

01:03:58.000 It's like engineering.

01:03:59.000 But I do that because sometimes that's what it requires to get up big mountains.

01:04:03.000 And when you do that and you nail things and stand on them, do you take them out as well?

01:04:07.000 Yeah, the second person takes them out.

01:04:08.000 So the one person uses them to get up and then once the rope is secured above, then the second person joins them and removes them all.

01:04:14.000 And then you have all your gear back and then you're able to do it again for the next section.

01:04:17.000 How much weight is that stuff?

01:04:19.000 Well, it depends, but it can be a lot.

01:04:20.000 And certainly back in the day when people were doing the first Estensive El Cap, I mean, it's something like 40 pounds or 50 pounds of iron hanging off them.

01:04:27.000 Nowadays it's all a lot lighter and you can use better gear, but yeah, I mean, it's a lot.

01:04:31.000 But that's kind of the appeal of free climbing or even free soloing is that you have nothing on you.

01:04:35.000 Now, how secure is that stuff that you're hammering in there?

01:04:39.000 It depends.

01:04:40.000 It depends.

01:04:41.000 I mean, there's certainly stories of people falling and ripping all the stuff back out.

01:04:44.000 Oh, Jesus!

01:04:45.000 But sometimes that's okay because if you're thousands of feet off the ground, you can take that 100-foot fall and not touch anything, and it's fine.

01:04:52.000 Oh, yeah, but still.

01:04:55.000 No, earlier this summer.

01:04:57.000 You're counting on the things?

01:04:58.000 Well, yeah, I mean, it's all well-founded.

01:05:01.000 I mean, you just got to trust him.

01:05:04.000 Now, earlier this summer, I was talking about Tommy Caldwell, one of the best climbers in the country.

01:05:07.000 So the two of us did the speed record on El Cap earlier this year.

01:05:10.000 And so the two of us are tied together.

01:05:12.000 We're using a rope.

01:05:13.000 We're using equipment.

01:05:14.000 But where anything goes, you're cheating as much as you can.

01:05:17.000 It's just trying to get from the bottom of the cap to the top as fast as possible.

01:05:20.000 This is on a different route than the one that I free sold in the film.

01:05:23.000 And so we were trying to go sub two hours and we ultimately did it in 158 and it was pretty awesome.

01:05:28.000 We were really psyched.

01:05:29.000 But along the way, Tommy took a 100-foot fall at one point where he just...

01:05:32.000 I was talking about him with the whole 1-10 effort.

01:05:36.000 He was climbing something that's really, really easy, and he was probably giving an effort of like two, and he just slipped.

01:05:41.000 You know, and I was like, oh. 0.95

01:05:42.000 But anyway, he freaking whipped.

01:05:43.000 He fell like 100 feet just straight down the wall.

01:05:46.000 Didn't touch anything because El Cap is like a very clean vertical sheet of rock.

01:05:50.000 How long does it take to fall 100 feet?

01:05:51.000 I don't know, like several.

01:05:53.000 Yeah, several seconds.

01:05:54.000 15 seconds?

01:05:55.000 No, no, no, no, like four or five or something.

01:05:57.000 But you accelerate very quickly.

01:05:59.000 That's one, two, three, four.

01:06:01.000 Yeah, long enough to be like, oh my god, I'm going to die. 1.00

01:06:03.000 Fuck! 1.00

01:06:04.000 And it's a nap! 1.00

01:06:05.000 No, long enough.

01:06:06.000 So the reason he fell so far is because we were doing this sort of complicated maneuvers.

01:06:11.000 Normally I would have a belay device on it.

01:06:12.000 Basically I would be attached to the rope earlier to like catch him.

01:06:15.000 But I'd taken my belay device off and I was just tied into the end.

01:06:18.000 So basically he fell on all the slack whipped through until it hit me at the end of the rope.

01:06:22.000 But so when he yelled, I basically had time to be like, oh my god, he's falling, like brace for impact, like knowing that in a second the rope is going to come tight against the end that I'm tied into and basically jerk me. 0.76

01:06:32.000 Wow.

01:06:33.000 But then thankfully there's enough drag in the system that it didn't jerk me off the stance that I was on or else I would have gotten pulled like 50 feet across the wall and it was all messed up.

01:06:41.000 So when he's falling and you're realizing that you're going to get yanked by his fall, are you like digging into the rock?

01:06:48.000 Yeah, no, basically I was like, oh my god!

01:06:50.000 You know, I was like, brace yourself!

01:06:52.000 Like, I was in this position.

01:06:53.000 I was actually like facing out away from the wall, like facing out towards the meadow because I was in an open corner.

01:07:01.000 Like, if you look at the corner of the room, imagine one leg on each side facing outward, like pushed into this position because it's like...

01:07:08.000 I was about to have to untie my knot and retie it and do some things.

01:07:11.000 And so I was basically like all ready to do some things.

01:07:13.000 And all of a sudden I hear that he's falling and I was like, oh my God.

01:07:16.000 And then I was able to just sort of like stick in there.

01:07:19.000 Jesus.

01:07:20.000 But my point is just that taking big falls, I mean, if you trust your equipment and everything, it can be okay to take big falls like that.

01:07:26.000 You obviously try to avoid them because, you know, had he hit a ledge or something, then potentially he could have died.

01:07:31.000 But because it was clean there, it was okay.

01:07:34.000 So if he was in a situation where there was a slight angle and he fell that far, that's where it's really dangerous.

01:07:40.000 Yeah.

01:07:41.000 I mean, worst case scenario would be if he fell 100 feet and 75 feet down there was a ledge sticking out half the width of this table.

01:07:47.000 Because then you would just clip it, you'd break both your legs, everything would explode, and then you'd still fall.

01:07:53.000 Yeah.

01:07:54.000 What do you do if you fall and you break something and you're halfway up?

01:07:58.000 Well, dude, so, okay, same route, the nose of El Cap, which we were trying to do the speed record on.

01:08:02.000 This friend of mine who I actually previously held the speed record with, this older guy, Hans Florin, who actually wrote the book How to Speed Climb, that I learned how to speed climb from many years ago.

01:08:12.000 So he freaking, exactly what I'm describing, sort of worst case scenario, he took this 20, probably a 22 foot fall, but he was unlucky enough, which is totally fine.

01:08:21.000 He had a rope, he had gear, everything worked exactly the way it's supposed to.

01:08:24.000 He just fell a ways, which is normal.

01:08:26.000 But the bummer was that there was a little ledge probably twice the size of that box right there, like that little wooden box, just kind of this little thing sticking out from the wall about this far.

01:08:35.000 But basically he fell 20 feet, hit that, broke both of his ankles, and then went off at another two feet.

01:08:41.000 And so the rope caught him and, you know, the fall was exactly as expected.

01:08:44.000 All his gear held, everything's totally normal, except that he happened to hit that thing right at the apex of, you know, at the full force of his fall.

01:08:51.000 You know, I had that ledge been two feet below him, it wouldn't matter at all, he would have just hit it and jumped off into space.

01:08:56.000 But because he'd already fallen 20 feet, broke both his ankles, And then it was kind of horrible.

01:09:02.000 I was actually up higher on the wall that day.

01:09:03.000 I'd come in from above to just rappel in and work on something.

01:09:06.000 And I heard him yelling, but I thought he was just hooting and hollering like, hey, you know, how's it going type deal.

01:09:11.000 And then I like had climbed out to the summit.

01:09:13.000 And then when I'd hiked halfway back down, I got a voicemail from him saying, That, you know, being like, oh, hey, it's Hans.

01:09:18.000 I think I just broke my, my tip fib.

01:09:22.000 You know, and basically like, oh, can you, can you help or whatever?

01:09:25.000 He'd already called search and rescue.

01:09:26.000 And so rescue is already mobilized, but search and rescue in Yosemite, it's, it's really elite.

01:09:32.000 They're really fast, but it's still sort of by the books, you know, it still takes kind of a lot of time.

01:09:35.000 And so I was like, Oh, man, like maybe I should run back up and rappel down and like help my buddy rappel down the wall again or something.

01:09:42.000 Should I like get him out of here faster?

01:09:44.000 Just because when search and rescue is immobilized, it's like a long time.

01:09:47.000 And I was like, if he's in a lot of pain, that sucks, you know?

01:09:49.000 Yeah.

01:09:50.000 Though as it, I really hesitate.

01:09:52.000 I wound up calling search and rescue and talking it through with him to see if there was anything I could do to help.

01:09:56.000 But ultimately, I wound up just going down because there wasn't really anything for me to do.

01:10:00.000 So he's essentially just suspending for a while, waiting for them to get him?

01:10:03.000 Yeah, so he basically just sat on a ledge with two broken legs for, you know, six hours or twelve hours or something, and then eventually they managed to haul him up to the summit, and then I think they helicoptered him off the next morning.

01:10:14.000 Oh my god.

01:10:15.000 Because it was already dark by then.

01:10:17.000 Yeah, I know.

01:10:17.000 It was kind of horrible.

01:10:19.000 But he's sort of recovered by now.

01:10:20.000 It's been five months or something.

01:10:22.000 So he's back at it.

01:10:24.000 Oh, he's climbing.

01:10:25.000 He's the manager of a climbing gym.

01:10:27.000 Well, I mean, it's two broken bones.

01:10:29.000 Yeah, it could be worse.

01:10:31.000 It just seems like...

01:10:33.000 No, it's super grim, though.

01:10:34.000 But that's an example of sort of worst case, you know, just bad luck.

01:10:38.000 Well, that's actually not worst case, right?

01:10:40.000 No, yeah, that's not worst case.

01:10:42.000 That's just bad luck, yeah.

01:10:44.000 That's, like, when you're sitting there, if you're sitting there hanging off a ledge like that with two broken ankles for six hours, I mean, that must be grim by the time they get to you.

01:10:53.000 The pain and swelling.

01:10:55.000 Yeah, so I think he and his partner actually rappelled down 100 feet to a slightly bigger ledge so that he could lay on it and elevate his legs.

01:11:01.000 And then I think there were some other climbers around that gave him a jacket, you know, so he could sort of bundle up and, like, lay there and sort of manage.

01:11:07.000 But yeah, I mean, it seems extremely character-building.

01:11:10.000 The life you choose.

01:11:12.000 Yeah.

01:11:13.000 Yeah.

01:11:13.000 No, it's really, I'm like, that actually kind of makes me feel really bad.

01:11:17.000 Just because, like, that kind of thing is really close to home.

01:11:20.000 You know, it's like, because he's a friend, and it's just so, like, that's bad.

01:11:23.000 Yeah.

01:11:24.000 I can only imagine.

01:11:26.000 Yeah.

01:11:26.000 When you think about your life and you think about the stuff that you do, is there a point where you feel like you won't do it anymore or a point where you feel like you won't free solo anymore or do you look at like your friend who you were talking about who's older who's still free soloing and doing difficult paths?

01:11:46.000 Do you think this is just your life forever?

01:11:50.000 No, I don't know.

01:11:51.000 I honestly, I'm not sure.

01:11:53.000 I don't think it's my path forever necessarily, just because there just aren't always bigger and harder things to do.

01:12:00.000 You know, I mean, LCAP represented sort of the end of this very long road for me.

01:12:04.000 I mean, I sold many, many things that were all sort of leading towards LCAP, and then I finally did that.

01:12:10.000 And at least right now, I can't really imagine anything more inspiring to me. 0.98

01:12:22.000 Is this like winning a big hand in Vegas where you're just like, okay, we got all the money, let's get the fuck out of here. 0.82

01:12:28.000 No, because that is too much luck. 0.72

01:12:31.000 You know what I mean?

01:12:31.000 It's more like realizing a life dream and you're sort of like, okay, I've seen.

01:12:37.000 But I mean, it's a similar idea where you're like, okay, well, no, it's not even.

01:12:41.000 I mean, yeah, it's a bad analogy.

01:12:44.000 I was just thinking in terms of no more big, crazy risks.

01:12:49.000 Yeah, but that's the thing.

01:12:50.000 I was never seeing it as a big crazy risk.

01:12:52.000 I wasn't rolling the dice.

01:12:54.000 I was sort of training for this thing, and then I did it, and I'm just not sure if there's a bigger thing that's worth more effort.

01:13:01.000 As you see in the film, I have a relationship with my girlfriend, and she's great, and we have this nice life together, and there's so much else in climbing.

01:13:10.000 Maybe I'll never seek out big free soloing challenges again.

01:13:15.000 We'll see.

01:13:16.000 Now, you're still relatively young in terms of life itself.

01:13:19.000 Do you think maybe there could be something that you would enjoy as much as you enjoy climbing?

01:13:26.000 Well, I mean, so no matter what, I'll climb my whole life.

01:13:28.000 I mean, I freaking love climbing.

01:13:30.000 I mean, even on the foam tier, I'm climbing in the gym every day just for the movement of it, just to enjoy climbing.

01:13:35.000 But I don't know.

01:13:37.000 I have a foundation that I've worked with for the last five or six years supporting solar around the world.

01:13:42.000 And so I could see putting more and more effort into that.

01:13:45.000 I mean, that's something that's satisfying in a way that climbing sort of isn't because it actually has a real tangible impact on the world.

01:13:52.000 You know, I mean, climbing is really fulfilling, personally.

01:13:55.000 But when it's all said and done, it's like, it's just me going rock climbing.

01:13:58.000 It doesn't really matter.

01:14:00.000 But at least working with the foundation, it's like actually doing something real.

01:14:03.000 What is your foundation?

01:14:04.000 It's just the Honnold Foundation, but we've been supporting solar.

01:14:09.000 I mean, if you want the longer version, it's basically, you know, I was looking for some way to do something positive in the world.

01:14:15.000 So I was looking to support environmental projects.

01:14:17.000 And then I was like, there's no real point in supporting environmental projects that don't also support solar.

01:14:21.000 It like increased standard of living that like help people in need.

01:14:24.000 And that sort of led me to solar projects, basically solar energy access.

01:14:28.000 And so that's what we've been supporting the last five, six years.

01:14:31.000 And so what do you do with this project?

01:14:34.000 Well, so domestically, mostly it's just been my way of donating my money to other projects that support solar.

01:14:41.000 So domestically in the U.S., I've been supporting this group Grid Alternatives, for example.

01:14:47.000 And so, I mean, I've done a few installations with them in Sacramento, in my hometown, where basically a low-income family just gets a free home solar system on their house.

01:14:56.000 And so, it saves them the energy bills, but then also, in terms of, you know, carbon emissions, it's just, it's good for the planet.

01:15:04.000 You know, slowly greening the grid.

01:15:06.000 But, and then, the bigger, potentially the bigger impacts have been projects we've been supporting in Africa, which give access to, like, solar lanterns, solar lights, being able to charge cell phones.

01:15:17.000 Basically, like, small-scale systems, where it's just a panel, a battery, and a few LED lights, and a phone charger.

01:15:23.000 But those kinds of things can fundamentally change somebody's life because, you know, East Africa people can spend up to a quarter of their income on kerosene just to light their home, which is totally outrageous.

01:15:32.000 I mean, imagine spending that percentage of your income just to have light after dark.

01:15:36.000 You know, and like in equatorial regions of the earth, it's dark for 12 hours a day.

01:15:40.000 I mean, imagine if when the sun goes down, your productive hours are done.

01:15:43.000 You're just like, no, I'm just going to sit in the dark for 12 hours.

01:15:45.000 It's crazy, you know?

01:15:47.000 Yeah.

01:15:47.000 I mean, there are a billion people on Earth living without access to power.

01:15:51.000 And, I mean, it's hard not...

01:15:53.000 I mean, I kind of see that as a waste of human potential to some extent.

01:15:56.000 Like, it's just an unfortunate thing to think there's so many people living without access to power.

01:16:01.000 I mean, it's crazy.

01:16:02.000 It is crazy, and it's really crazy in California that there's not more solar when you think about how often it's sunny here.

01:16:09.000 Yeah.

01:16:09.000 No, I mean, it's totally...

01:16:11.000 Though, I mean, at least it's growing very quickly in California, at least.

01:16:15.000 But, I mean, really, solar should be powering the whole Earth.

01:16:18.000 I mean, enough sunlight hits the Earth every...

01:16:20.000 I don't know the terms now.

01:16:22.000 It's every, like, 10 or 15 minutes, basically, to power the Earth for, like, the year, if you're able to harness all the energy.

01:16:28.000 It's kind of like, it's just such a cleaner, simpler way of powering the Earth, you know?

01:16:33.000 Yeah, it really is.

01:16:35.000 And, I mean, one can only hope that that's going to, it's going to keep, it's going to continue to evolve.

01:16:43.000 The thing that drives me absolutely crazy is that it's totally obvious that in 100 years the Earth will be run through solar and things like that because there's just so much energy spilling out of the Earth and it's free.

01:16:56.000 And so the technology is only improving, everybody's adopting it.

01:16:59.000 Like, in 100 years, no question, everything will be run from the Sun.

01:17:02.000 The thing that drives me insane is that there's so much resistance to it, from utilities, from consumer ignorance, from whatever else, but people just don't totally get it and sort of oppose to it.

01:17:12.000 And so, you know, half the world will be dragged kicking and screaming into the future.

01:17:17.000 And you're sort of like, if you just embrace it and get there in 15 years instead of 100 years, all the arguments about climate change, all the arguments about environmental degradation, all those kinds of things would be mitigated to a large extent.

01:17:27.000 And you're sort of like...

01:17:28.000 Is there a downside to that?

01:17:29.000 You know, like, even if you don't believe in climate change, even if, you know, you deny all the science behind it, you think it's all BS, it's like, is there really a downside to just adopting the future sooner?

01:17:40.000 Yeah, it's like one of those things where you're sort of like, if it's going to happen eventually, let's just do it now and save all the freaking hassle getting there.

01:17:47.000 I think it's the momentum of the current system.

01:17:49.000 It's very difficult for people to just abandon established ways of doing things, especially when we're so hooked on fossil fuels.

01:17:57.000 I know, but it's just such a bummer that the status quo is such a thing.

01:18:00.000 People are like, oh, that's the way we do it.

01:18:01.000 Let's just keep doing that.

01:18:02.000 And it's just weird because there's so many things in life that change so frequently.

01:18:07.000 I mean, the world is constantly changing.

01:18:09.000 You're like, let's just embrace the changes that matter the most and just do them faster.

01:18:12.000 Well, you're talking as a guy who lives in a van and climbs rocks.

01:18:16.000 And these business people that have thousands and thousands of employees and millions, if not billions of money, of dollars invested in these things.

01:18:25.000 Yeah, well, yeah.

01:18:26.000 That's the problem, is the momentum of the current system.

01:18:28.000 I know, it's just too bad.

01:18:30.000 Yeah, it is, but it's inevitable.

01:18:32.000 I agree with you.

01:18:33.000 It's inevitable that we will embrace it and change.

01:18:36.000 That's almost more frustrating, though, is because it's inevitable, and yet it's going to be dragged out so long.

01:18:41.000 You're sort of like, why can't people just embrace the inevitability of it and just move forward?

01:18:45.000 Well, I think they slowly are, but things like that take time.

01:18:48.000 I think one big thing is going to be if they can ever figure out a way to solar power cars as you're driving them.

01:18:55.000 So you never really have to concern yourself.

01:18:57.000 I don't think that'll ever be a thing.

01:18:58.000 Well, Fisker figured out how to do it with your stereo.

01:19:01.000 They figured out how to do it with your radio system.

01:19:05.000 That's a lot different than a car.

01:19:07.000 It is.

01:19:07.000 It's like a lot less energy.

01:19:08.000 But it's just the roof panel.

01:19:10.000 The roof panel.

01:19:11.000 Didn't we...

01:19:13.000 They're a weird company, though.

01:19:15.000 That's the company that...

01:19:16.000 Many years ago, there was a big storm that hit the East Coast, and they had a bunch of cars parked at a dock, and they all exploded when the water hit them.

01:19:24.000 And they realized, wait, wait, wait, wait.

01:19:26.000 You can't get your things drenched in water.

01:19:29.000 Like, when the water hit a certain level, they had a severe flaw.

01:19:33.000 And so they burst into flames and exploded.

01:19:36.000 And there's this whole dock filled with these...

01:19:42.000 Fisker Karmas that blew up and they call them Karmas, which is even more hilarious. 1.00

01:19:46.000 You watch them exploding.

01:19:48.000 That's pretty bad.

01:19:50.000 That's like, that's all bad all the way around.

01:19:52.000 Yeah, I think they've since fixed that, but yeah, it was a big flaw.

01:19:56.000 I was just actually reading this business management book, but we were talking about the Ford Pinto with having freaking gas tanks too close to the back bumper.

01:20:05.000 It's basically your gas tank protected by an inch of plastic.

01:20:09.000 Yeah, speaking of exploding cars.

01:20:11.000 But that actually, I think, killed lots of people because they were actually put into production and then there are tons of accidents and the cars explode and you're just like, man.

01:20:18.000 Speaking of bad decisions in auto manufacturing.

01:20:22.000 Yeah, the Pinto was a disaster.

01:20:23.000 It wasn't good.

01:20:26.000 Yeah.

01:20:27.000 I think what they're capable of doing right now, I think you're right.

01:20:31.000 I don't think you can power a car with solar panels completely.

01:20:35.000 I mean, you certainly can from your house.

01:20:37.000 That was their initial claim when they announced it, that it would power the whole car.

01:20:41.000 Really? 1.00

01:20:41.000 And everyone was like, that's bullshit. 1.00

01:20:43.000 No, that's definitely bullshit. 1.00

01:20:44.000 It can't happen. 0.99

01:20:44.000 Yeah, it can't happen at all. 0.99

01:20:46.000 Two years ago.

01:20:46.000 Two years ago, they said they could power the whole car with the roof?

01:20:49.000 August of 2016. Huh.

01:20:51.000 I'm trying to find the...

01:20:53.000 That seems totally outrageous.

01:20:55.000 Also, I mean, the future of cars is more like a smaller car with a glass roof, like Tesla style, where it's sort of an additional ad right here.

01:21:04.000 Solar roof will create enough energy to power the car.

01:21:06.000 No other vehicle sold in the U.S. has ever offered this capability.

01:21:09.000 Well, I mean, so that might be true if it just sat parked in the sun for 12 hours and then you drove home.

01:21:14.000 Right.

01:21:14.000 Like if you left it in your driveway and you worked at night.

01:21:18.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:21:20.000 It charges all day and your commute's really short.

01:21:22.000 But the numbers totally don't work.

01:21:24.000 Yeah.

01:21:24.000 Well, you would know better than anybody if you're involved in solar.

01:21:27.000 Yeah.

01:21:27.000 I don't know.

01:21:28.000 But, I mean, the solar panels of today, I mean, I have a buddy of mine who does a lot of backpacking and he carries around this, it's like a foldable solar charger for his phone.

01:21:37.000 And he, you know, folds it up and lays it out and then puts a charger there and then he uses that charger to charge his phone.

01:21:47.000 But he'll go 20 plus days with just this thing.

01:21:51.000 Yeah, I mean, so I mentioned our expedition to Antarctica last winter.

01:21:55.000 So that's 24 hours of sunlight because you're in Antarctica in their summer.

01:21:59.000 And our entire expedition was run from solar.

01:22:02.000 And so we'd actually taken a generator and the other guys on the trip forgot oil for the generator, basically.

01:22:06.000 And so it wasn't going to work.

01:22:08.000 And so we're like, oh, I guess we'll have to try to use the solar, which had sort of been our backup system.

01:22:12.000 And actually, we ran the whole trip on solar and everything worked.

01:22:16.000 And so they were filming.

01:22:17.000 So there were a bunch of cameras, a bunch of batteries, laptops, backing up drives.

01:22:20.000 Wow.

01:22:20.000 And then they were flying a drone quite a bit for aerial footage.

01:22:23.000 It was all kind of beautiful.

01:22:24.000 So, I mean, they basically ran this whole operation off solar.

01:22:26.000 One of the camera guys, this guy Pablo, who's a good friend of mine, basically just had to wake up, you know, every two hours to move the panels around the tent as the sun tracks around the sky, you know, so that it's always in full sun.

01:22:36.000 Right.

01:22:37.000 And he had to sleep with the batteries and things to make sure things stay warm enough.

01:22:40.000 But otherwise, I mean, because it's really cold.

01:22:43.000 It's funny because you put your laptops and stuff into coolers, like into ice chests, to keep them insulated enough to stay warm as opposed to cold.

01:22:50.000 Wow.

01:22:50.000 You know, because the outside temperature is so cold.

01:22:52.000 But it was cool though because, you know, that way we didn't have to run this like loud, stinky, annoying generator.

01:22:58.000 Like you just have your panels working full time.

01:23:01.000 Yeah, that's one of the weirder things about, like, Teslas.

01:23:03.000 When you drive it in, they're like, there's no noise.

01:23:05.000 Yeah, no, it's awesome.

01:23:06.000 Yeah.

01:23:07.000 Yeah.

01:23:08.000 So much more peaceful.

01:23:09.000 Yeah.

01:23:09.000 I mean, but that's the future.

01:23:10.000 It's like, if you imagine a city that's all silent electric cars with no emissions, I mean, imagine how much more pleasant the pedestrian experience is when it's not, like, diesel exhaust right next to you on the city streets.

01:23:19.000 Yeah, and you don't hear the car that runs you over.

01:23:21.000 Well, you know.

01:23:22.000 No, but you still do, though, because something like 30% of the noise is the tires.

01:23:26.000 Yeah.

01:23:26.000 It's like you still hear cars.

01:23:27.000 Yeah.

01:23:28.000 But it's just so much more mellow.

01:23:29.000 You don't hear, like, an engine, like, ripping right by you.

01:23:32.000 Yeah, I think it's inevitable that we figure out a way that you can just power everything from solar, including cars, as you're driving them.

01:23:40.000 I mean, it only makes sense as the technology improves.

01:23:43.000 Mm-hmm.

01:23:44.000 Yeah, we'll see.

01:23:45.000 I mean, there's development in solar film sort of in windows.

01:23:50.000 So imagine an office building where the windows are all producing power.

01:23:53.000 So I mean, if you think about that with a car, if it's just like a glass dome over you, but it's all sort of producing power.

01:23:58.000 I mean, it's pretty amazing.

01:23:59.000 I have a watch that runs on solar power.

01:24:01.000 Yeah, but that's not a lot of power.

01:24:03.000 Yeah, but still, you don't really need any batteries for it.

01:24:06.000 It's a Casio.

01:24:07.000 I did when I was a kid.

01:24:09.000 I went like that.

01:24:10.000 Did you?

01:24:10.000 Yeah, that's pretty straightforward, though.

01:24:12.000 That's a small amount of power that it's drawing.

01:24:15.000 When you got involved in this, how much preparation did you do?

01:24:20.000 What was the motivation?

01:24:23.000 For the foundation?

01:24:24.000 Yeah.

01:24:25.000 I mean, honestly, like I said, I was just looking to do something positive for the world.

01:24:30.000 Start exploring options.

01:24:31.000 And so I was going to start donating a significant percentage of my income to environmental nonprofits.

01:24:37.000 And then I decided that I should do it in sort of a public-facing way, in the form of the foundation, just because I felt like, you know, I'm never going to have nearly as much money as real philanthropic organizations, you know, like the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

01:24:49.000 Like, I'll never have real dollars like that, but I do sort of have this platform, like some sort of public, you know, persona, whatever.

01:24:57.000 So I was like, well, at least if I donate things, I can sort of leverage that in the right way to contribute.

01:25:03.000 I don't know, basically to try and maximize the good that I'm doing.

01:25:05.000 And so, yeah, so then I just started researching organizations that I felt like were doing great work, and that led me to solar, basically.

01:25:12.000 Does most of your income come from sponsors and from public appearances?

01:25:16.000 It was mostly sponsors, and then it sort of has shifted into sponsors and sort of one-off things.

01:25:21.000 So, like, I published a book a few years ago, and so there's an advance from that.

01:25:26.000 Um, has made a little money, um, the, you know, random little things.

01:25:31.000 And then now it's also sort of split with like corporate speaking type commercial opportunities as well.

01:25:36.000 So sponsorship is still probably the biggest thing for me.

01:25:38.000 So like the North face being my biggest sponsor, um, and most important sponsor for me.

01:25:42.000 But then now it's sort of split between a bunch of different sources.

01:25:46.000 So the public speaking things, uh, these, uh, corporate appearances, you just go and get, just talk to them about free solo climbing and Yeah, talk to them about climbing, talk about preparation.

01:25:56.000 I mean, it depends on what somebody needs, really.

01:25:59.000 It depends on what the organization is.

01:26:00.000 I've spoken to a bunch of venture capital-type firms about risk-taking or risk management.

01:26:05.000 That's interesting.

01:26:07.000 So they just look at you as sort of an inspiration to mix things up for the company?

01:26:12.000 Yeah, I'd like to think that it's a slightly more interesting talk than the average business speaker.

01:26:17.000 It's certainly more beautiful images.

01:26:19.000 If I give a nice slideshow and chat for a bit, it's beautiful, it's different, but I think that it still gets back to some of the same elemental issues.

01:26:29.000 How do you manage risk in your life and what's worth it and how do you choose?

01:26:33.000 It's a smart move, too, for a company to just kind of vary the kind of input that gets to the employees.

01:26:41.000 Give them something that's kind of spectacular and interesting.

01:26:46.000 Now, when you look at the future...

01:26:50.000 Do you have a map of what you would like to be doing?

01:26:54.000 Are you just sort of enjoying your experience here?

01:26:57.000 Do you have grand plans?

01:27:00.000 I don't really have grand plans.

01:27:02.000 I mean, I've never really had a grand plan.

01:27:04.000 It's always been that I love climbing.

01:27:05.000 I want to do it well.

01:27:06.000 I want to push myself.

01:27:08.000 And I think that's kind of my grand plan.

01:27:10.000 I mean, I'm still trying to be a better climber.

01:27:13.000 I'm still...

01:27:14.000 Trying to grow the foundation, do something more significant through it.

01:27:18.000 I actually hired a full-time executive director this year, this woman who's running it for me, which is kind of awesome.

01:27:22.000 So we're actually sort of ramping it all up a little bit.

01:27:24.000 That was slightly in response to the film because I sort of figured that, you know, this is like a moment that I should try to take advantage of and use it to do something more positive.

01:27:32.000 And so that's all sort of exciting for me.

01:27:34.000 And it's definitely not a grand plan, but it's, you know, it's just sort of all incremental progress.

01:27:40.000 So when you're doing all these climbs, you have a lot of time.

01:27:44.000 It takes time to do these things.

01:27:46.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:27:47.000 So is this when you start thinking about these ideas?

01:27:49.000 About thinking about how much you enjoy being out here in nature?

01:27:54.000 Yeah, caring about the environment.

01:27:56.000 I mean, for sure.

01:27:57.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:27:57.000 I mean, I spend most of my time in the most beautiful places on Earth.

01:28:00.000 I mean, I'm spending most of my time in national parks and public lands in general.

01:28:04.000 And so I'm in all these beautiful places and it's like, yeah, I mean, I care about them.

01:28:08.000 I want to...

01:28:09.000 You know, if I have a family someday, I want to be able to take my kids to these same places and have them appreciate the land in the same way.

01:28:14.000 I mean, yeah, so like Yosemite, the last five years, freaking the entire forest has basically died from pine beetles.

01:28:21.000 Well, all the pine trees have basically died because of pine beetles.

01:28:23.000 And so like just in the last five years, let's say, the Yosemite Valley floor has sort of transformed from like a dense pine forest to sort of this open oak forest.

01:28:32.000 It's a totally different character because all the pine trees have died and then they've been cutting them all down to reduce fuel load.

01:28:37.000 So they're basically logging trucks with pine trees leaving the park nonstop, which I totally support.

01:28:43.000 I'm not anti-logging the dead trees because you may as well use them if they're already dead.

01:28:47.000 I definitely don't want to see Yosemite Valley all burst into flames.

01:28:51.000 It makes sense.

01:28:51.000 But at the same time, I mean, you know, that's a real, that's a very direct result of climate change.

01:28:56.000 I mean, it's 10 years of drought in California combined with the shorter winters.

01:29:00.000 It's like you just have these beetles decimating the entire forest.

01:29:04.000 And I don't know.

01:29:04.000 I mean, that sucks, you know?

01:29:06.000 Like, I don't want to see the whole forest die. 0.57

01:29:08.000 Is that an invasive beetle or is it a native beetle?

01:29:11.000 Yeah.

01:29:11.000 Well, I think it's invasive in that I don't know specifically with Yosemite, I could be wrong about this, but with a lot of the pine beetle problems in Colorado, it has more to do with a shorter winter and warmer temperatures, because normally the larva would die through the winter, like they would freeze.

01:29:28.000 But basically they're not freezing to the same extent, and so the population explodes and then you wind up with all the trees dying.

01:29:34.000 Yeah, we were there, and we were in Big Bear a few years back when they were having a real issue with it, and they were having real significant fire scares.

01:29:42.000 Yeah.

01:29:42.000 And it was nerve-wracking.

01:29:44.000 No, I mean, Yosemite was on fire for most of the summer.

01:29:47.000 It was crazy.

01:29:48.000 The whole southern part of the park was burning for months.

01:29:52.000 Yeah.

01:30:08.000 Yeah, when we were in Big Bear, that's my feeling.

01:30:12.000 It was sad that you're seeing something that was probably this rich, green, lush forest that's now really weird, gray, and dry.

01:30:21.000 But it was also like you're around kindling.

01:30:24.000 You're basically in a big stack of dry wood before it gets lit on fire, and you're surrounded by it.

01:30:31.000 And if it hits...

01:30:32.000 Up there, it's, I mean, we've been evacuated where I live several times, twice, actually, and come close a couple other times.

01:30:40.000 And it's terrifying, because Southern California, when it goes, it goes.

01:30:44.000 Yeah.

01:30:44.000 And there's just no stopping it.

01:30:46.000 No, I mean, that's, yeah, no, that's messed up.

01:30:48.000 I mean, that's what's so, like, yeah, this is why I'm like, this is why we transition to solar sooner, you know, because it's like, if it helps at all with these kinds of issues, then it's like worth the effort, you know?

01:30:58.000 It's like, if it's going to happen anyway, it's like, you may as well just do it now.

01:31:01.000 So this thing that you were doing in Antarctica, you're filming something there as well?

01:31:05.000 Do you do a lot of that now?

01:31:07.000 Well, for a trip like that, for an expedition, I mean, that was the North Face expedition, and so that's where they get a lot of their brand content.

01:31:13.000 And so it makes sense to film a trip like that.

01:31:16.000 And we were somewhere that nobody ever goes.

01:31:18.000 We were doing first ascents at peaks that had never been climbed.

01:31:20.000 So it kind of makes sense to document that to some extent.

01:31:23.000 But in general, I think I try to balance my just pure climbing with filming.

01:31:28.000 Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you.

01:31:30.000 You don't want to get to the point where you're filming everything.

01:31:33.000 You have GoPro on your head everywhere you go.

01:31:35.000 No, that stuff drives me crazy.

01:31:37.000 I'm not into that.

01:31:38.000 But when you're in the most beautiful place, you know, sometimes it makes sense.

01:31:42.000 Well, especially for someone like North Face, their whole company is about really suiting people up.

01:31:50.000 When you're in that sort of situation where you're filming these things, is it difficult to act normal, to be yourself?

01:32:01.000 Well, no.

01:32:02.000 If you saw Free Solo, you know that I only have one mode and that's just me.

01:32:07.000 Which, I mean, when I see the film, a lot of it, I'm like, oh, maybe I need to censor myself a little more.

01:32:13.000 Maybe I should be a little more thoughtful about what I say.

01:32:16.000 But, no, I mean, I'm pretty much always, I just do me.

01:32:20.000 And if people are filming or not, they just get...

01:32:22.000 I mean, I'm more mindful of profanity and a few things like that.

01:32:25.000 If I know that I'm being filmed or I know I'm being watched, then I try to be slightly more respectful.

01:32:30.000 Especially if I see kids in an audience, I definitely try not to curse.

01:32:33.000 But overall, I'm like, no, I just always stay in my mind, you know?

01:32:37.000 Well that's what I was talking about earlier when I was asking like the difference between you when you're, I mean your love of this is your love of nature and of being in these beautiful national forests and public lands and experiencing these amazing environments.

01:32:52.000 But then sometimes that gets sort of perverted when you're filming everything and you've got people, everything becomes this sort of presentation and everything becomes professional.

01:33:06.000 I mean, I think that's the risk with filming.

01:33:08.000 I think with Free Solo, I think they did an amazing job of maintaining the character, the nuance, like not perverting it in any way.

01:33:17.000 No, I think so too.

01:33:18.000 I think it was amazing.

01:33:19.000 Yeah, I mean, I think they did a really good job of that.

01:33:22.000 And it's still sort of understated.

01:33:24.000 Even though it's like this spectacular feat, it's still sort of subdued in its own way.

01:33:27.000 It just sort of lays it out beautifully, lets you just sort of judge for yourself.

01:33:31.000 Well, it's impossible to be anything but spectacular.

01:33:35.000 So you don't really have to dress it up.

01:33:36.000 Yeah, totally.

01:33:37.000 Well, that's the beauty of filming anything in Yosemite, is that it's honestly just one of the most beautiful places on Earth.

01:33:42.000 It would be like putting a pretty dress on a Ferrari.

01:33:45.000 Leave it alone.

01:33:47.000 It's done.

01:33:48.000 You've already got it.

01:33:49.000 Have you ever thought about doing some live journal from the field or some sort of a podcast or something along those lines?

01:33:59.000 No, I mean, should I? Yeah.

01:34:01.000 No, that sounds like too much work.

01:34:04.000 Well, a podcast would be easy.

01:34:06.000 I don't know, but you have to be able to interview people properly.

01:34:09.000 No, you don't.

01:34:10.000 No.

01:34:10.000 You don't think?

01:34:10.000 My friend Bill Burr has a podcast where he just talks.

01:34:14.000 Is it good though? 0.98

01:34:15.000 It's fucking great. 0.98

01:34:17.000 But he's a comedian. 0.99

01:34:18.000 Monday morning podcast.

01:34:20.000 But you just sitting down, I mean, you could go off notes, you could go off of, and just, I think people would love that.

01:34:28.000 I've actually never thought about it.

01:34:29.000 I mean, in some ways, I do have strong opinions about a lot of things.

01:34:31.000 Like if I just ranted about environmental issues and solar and things that I care about, that actually would be kind of fun.

01:34:37.000 I think you'd have a significant impact too, especially if you have such a large platform now.

01:34:42.000 I don't know.

01:34:43.000 I'll consider it.

01:34:44.000 That's the first time anyone's ever mentioned.

01:34:45.000 I'm sort of like, I can, you know, I'll think about that.

01:34:47.000 I'm notorious for trying to talk people into podcasts, but I really think in your case, it'd be a great idea.

01:34:52.000 I mean, you really...

01:34:54.000 You're like, I tell everyone to do it, but you should really do it.

01:34:56.000 Well, people get mad at me.

01:34:58.000 You keep telling people to do it.

01:34:59.000 But I think you, if you had a portable unit, like one of these MP3 players... 0.97

01:35:05.000 Well, I mean, a freaking phone.

01:35:06.000 I mean, you can just record on your phone, really. 0.98

01:35:07.000 Oh, yeah.

01:35:08.000 Recording on your phone is very easy.

01:35:11.000 I mean, we've done a bunch of them.

01:35:13.000 We're just the voice notes from the phone, just talking into the voice notes from the phone, and you can make a podcast off that, and it's really easy to upload.

01:35:21.000 Maybe that's my future.

01:35:22.000 Sitting in your van afterwards and just talking about things you're working on with your foundation, talking about spectacular moments during climbs where you're seeing things and talking about what it's been like doing this tour.

01:35:42.000 I'll think about that.

01:35:43.000 I mean, that's interesting.

01:35:44.000 It'd be an interesting way to put it out there.

01:35:46.000 I mean, I think it's a great idea, man.

01:35:48.000 Huh.

01:35:49.000 Huh.

01:35:49.000 I'll help you.

01:35:50.000 I'll consider.

01:35:51.000 We'll help you get it out.

01:35:52.000 Yeah, you'll send me a little mp3 recorder.

01:35:54.000 We could definitely do that.

01:35:56.000 But we could also help you, like, I can promote it for you, put it on Twitter, let people know it's there.

01:36:01.000 Yeah, we'll see if I ever actually do anything like that.

01:36:04.000 But no, it's an interesting idea.

01:36:05.000 I mean, it's an interesting way to, like, share ideas better.

01:36:08.000 Well, the reason why I'm saying this is because you have this very specific...

01:36:15.000 very unusual life and You also have all these ideas about the environment and have all these ideas about using it for positive reasons and and altruistic Yeah, hoping to frickin make the world a better place and having making an impact with your foundation I really think you could look you're the best thing with your foundation would be to make make it exposed to more people and it would most certainly do that and Yeah,

01:36:42.000 I'll talk to my executive director about that too.

01:36:45.000 I mean, that would be an interesting way to at least share the ideas that I care about.

01:36:49.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:36:51.000 It's so cheap to do.

01:36:51.000 The idea of just sitting and recording.

01:36:52.000 Yeah, and it would be kind of cool.

01:36:54.000 You know, like you at the base of a mountain just talking about this and climbing and your personal thoughts in that moment.

01:37:02.000 I feel like it could be douchey, you know, but it'd have to be well done. 0.95

01:37:05.000 You'd have to be a douchebag for it to be douchey. 0.82

01:37:07.000 Well, that's the danger. 0.97

01:37:08.000 That's the danger.

01:37:09.000 You just never...

01:37:10.000 I mean, nobody thinks that they're the douche, you know?

01:37:12.000 Oh, well, do you think you'd become a douche?

01:37:14.000 Well, you just never know.

01:37:16.000 You never know.

01:37:16.000 When you're like, I'm just going to record monologues of me rambling about ideas, that's when you start to trend towards douchiness, perhaps.

01:37:23.000 Well, the good thing is, you could always review it or have your girlfriend review it.

01:37:27.000 Yeah, that's true.

01:37:28.000 So you don't have to do it live.

01:37:30.000 Just, you know, and then she could say, okay, that part where you rant and rave about Diesel, you might want to yank that.

01:37:36.000 No, I mean, well...

01:37:37.000 Or maybe not.

01:37:39.000 Yeah, no, I feel strongly about it.

01:37:40.000 I'll rant and rave about diesel forever.

01:37:41.000 I'm like, that's just not the right way.

01:37:44.000 Man, imagine when electric trucks, you know, like long haul trucking, I'm like, oh, can't wait.

01:37:49.000 Well, Tesla's already on, they're on the ball with that.

01:37:51.000 Yeah, well, hopefully.

01:37:52.000 I kind of don't care who comes to market first with that stuff.

01:37:56.000 I just want somebody to start selling a lot of them.

01:37:58.000 You know, it's like, I just want the change to happen quickly.

01:38:00.000 It doesn't matter who does it or how.

01:38:01.000 It's like, it just needs to happen.

01:38:02.000 You've got a very significant voice right now.

01:38:05.000 I really think that you could make a big impact with a lot of people.

01:38:08.000 And the thing about these impacts, it's sort of like the butterfly effect, right?

01:38:12.000 You never know what it actually changes.

01:38:14.000 You have no idea how many people are going to hear you just from this podcast and the things you're saying about solar and people thinking about, like, yeah, maybe I can do something.

01:38:23.000 And then, boom, it just makes these little incremental steps and then they carry on momentum and you never know.

01:38:32.000 Well, that's the positive way of looking at it, you know?

01:38:35.000 Yeah, I just think it would be cool, too.

01:38:37.000 Like, notes from wherever you are.

01:38:40.000 Just, I mean, you don't have to have...

01:38:42.000 The beautiful thing is, too, it doesn't have to have any kind of structure.

01:38:45.000 You don't have to have any time.

01:38:46.000 I mean, you could do one for 15 minutes if you want, and people will listen to it.

01:38:49.000 You could do it for an hour.

01:38:50.000 No, that might be a little micro hits, like little rambles for sure.

01:38:54.000 Do it as long as you want.

01:38:56.000 Like I said, the beautiful thing about things like this is that there's no real structure to it where you have to do something at a certain time.

01:39:06.000 You just decide.

01:39:08.000 In a lot of ways, that's the nature of climbing too, where you never have to do anything.

01:39:11.000 You just find what inspires you.

01:39:13.000 You work towards it.

01:39:14.000 You do it when you're excited about it.

01:39:15.000 I'm totally into that kind of thing.

01:39:18.000 I've always contrasted climbing from other mainstream sports like that because with climbing, the objective is that you're always inspired by it and you do it whenever you're ready as opposed to having to perform on the right day at the right time.

01:39:29.000 I love that lifestyle where you're like, you know, today is my day or today is not my day.

01:39:33.000 You just make it count.

01:39:35.000 If, like, leading up to you free soloing El Cap, if there was sort of a documented audio journal...

01:39:44.000 Well, I mean, there's a freaking film.

01:39:45.000 I mean, just go watch the film. 0.88

01:39:47.000 Yeah, but people are getting it.

01:39:48.000 You're just whetting their appetite.

01:39:50.000 I mean, it's a beautiful film.

01:39:51.000 It's fantastic, but people like to absorb more stuff.

01:39:55.000 Interesting.

01:39:56.000 And it's entirely up to you what you want to share or don't want to share.

01:39:59.000 And especially if you do it this way, you don't have an executive producer, you don't have directors.

01:40:04.000 Yeah, totally.

01:40:05.000 With that, I definitely couldn't handle it.

01:40:06.000 It's like too much.

01:40:07.000 Just you.

01:40:08.000 Just you just talking about stuff.

01:40:10.000 And your specific vision, the things that you like to talk about, your specific message.

01:40:16.000 That's one of the things that people really, really enjoy about something like a podcast is that they know there's no one telling you what to say or what to do.

01:40:24.000 Yeah, you're following your heart.

01:40:26.000 Alex is sitting in his van, you know, drinking a cup of tea, just with an iPhone, talking.

01:40:32.000 Mm-hmm.

01:40:33.000 It's hard to imagine people would find that interesting.

01:40:35.000 They would!

01:40:35.000 I'm telling you, dude!

01:40:37.000 You'd be really surprised, I bet, though.

01:40:39.000 Tell them!

01:40:39.000 Tell them, Jamie!

01:40:41.000 I know people would be listening to it.

01:40:42.000 Tell them, Jamie!

01:40:42.000 People I know would listen to you, for sure.

01:40:44.000 Oh, no, I appreciate that, but I'm slightly worried I'm going to miss my plane.

01:40:48.000 Okay, yeah, we've got to get you out of here.

01:40:50.000 But listen, thank you very much.

01:40:52.000 Thanks for being here.

01:40:53.000 I really appreciate it.

01:40:54.000 The movie's excellent.

01:40:56.000 Yeah, it's fun to chat again, because I remember last time I was on the show, it was a full experience for me.

01:41:00.000 It was one of the first times I'd done anything like that, and it was like...

01:41:02.000 It was pretty mega.

01:41:03.000 I was like, whoa, I have no idea what I'm doing.

01:41:05.000 This is so much.

01:41:06.000 And now I feel so much more comfortable and fun to chat.

01:41:08.000 It was great.

01:41:09.000 It was great.

01:41:10.000 It was really great to see you again, too.

01:41:10.000 See what I'm saying?

01:41:11.000 It feels like coming of age to come back and chat again.

01:41:13.000 Ah!

01:41:13.000 Beautiful.

01:41:14.000 Yeah, it's really nice.

01:41:14.000 Beautiful.

01:41:15.000 Very cool.

01:41:15.000 I appreciate it.

01:41:16.000 Thanks, Alex.

01:41:16.000 Appreciate it.

01:41:17.000 Thank you.

01:41:20.000 Yeah, it's funny.

01:41:21.000 I remember last time...

The Joe Rogan Experience - October 25, 2018

Joe Rogan Experience #1189 - Alex Honnold

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