The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1295 - Tulsi Gabbard

00:00:00.000 Three, two, one, and we're back.

00:00:03.000 What's up?

00:00:03.000 How are you?

00:00:04.000 We're back.

00:00:04.000 Aloha, I'm good.

00:00:05.000 Nice to be back here.

00:00:06.000 When you first came here, you were thinking about running for president.

00:00:10.000 Now you're out there.

00:00:11.000 We're all in.

00:00:11.000 It's happening.

00:00:12.000 Yes.

00:00:12.000 Are you nervous?

00:00:13.000 No.

00:00:13.000 Is it weird?

00:00:14.000 No.

00:00:14.000 No?

00:00:15.000 Not at all.

00:00:15.000 None of it?

00:00:16.000 Do you feel like this is like destiny?

00:00:18.000 No.

00:00:18.000 So how does it not feel weird?

00:00:19.000 I'm on a mission.

00:00:21.000 I'm on a mission.

00:00:23.000 You know, there's a lot of issues I think we're going to talk about about why I'm running for president.

00:00:28.000 But being out and connecting with people all across this country, bringing this message really of ending these wasteful, destructive foreign policies that have...

00:00:39.000 Been so costly on the American people for so long, costly on our troops, costly on our veterans, ending these wasteful regime change wars, ending this new Cold War and nuclear arms race, and taking the trillions of dollars that we've been spending on these programs and that we will continue to spend if the status quo is allowed to continue,

00:01:00.000 and investing those dollars back into serving the people in our communities, serving the people of this country.

00:01:06.000 Things like healthcare, education, infrastructure, Protecting our environment.

00:01:11.000 Clean water.

00:01:12.000 There's so much that we need to do.

00:01:13.000 We've got limited resources to accomplish that.

00:01:16.000 These are my favorite things that you talk about.

00:01:19.000 My question is always, though, why do we spend so much time and money at such a titanic human cost?

00:01:28.000 For these regime change wars.

00:01:30.000 What do you think is the cause?

00:01:33.000 Like other than the obvious, if you have a dictator that's in place, there's an obvious outcry like Saddam Hussein post 9-11. 0.50

00:01:41.000 Other than that, What is the reason why we invest so much time and energy into regime change war, so much so that we've just accepted that this is a part of our gross economy?

00:01:53.000 If you're going to take all the money that the United States earns and all the money that goes to taxes, we just automatically put a gigantic chunk of that Into investing in these wars in other countries.

00:02:07.000 Blindly.

00:02:08.000 Blindly almost.

00:02:09.000 Without any kind of real accountability.

00:02:13.000 Six to eight trillion dollars is what's estimated that's been spent since 9-11 alone on these regime change wars without even taking into account what the cost will continue to be to take care of our veterans.

00:02:26.000 Those who have gone and fought in these wars and have come home I think?

00:03:01.000 We're good to go.

00:03:23.000 And they sold this lie for financial gain, for oil.

00:03:30.000 You look at some of the architects of that Iraq war, guys like John Bolton, who today is President Trump's National Security Council director, and you look at what's happening in Venezuela.

00:03:43.000 Almost the very same playbook being used, where they're selling this regime change effort, threatening to use U.S. military force to go in and topple a regime under the guise of humanitarianism, when in fact, and Bolton has said this on national television,

00:03:58.000 that, well, we really want to make sure that American oil companies are able to go in and access that oil-rich country in Venezuela.

00:04:06.000 So do you think that's why...

00:04:08.000 There's so much turmoil in that country right now?

00:04:10.000 This battle over regime change because of the fact they want to control the oil?

00:04:15.000 I think the U.S. coming in and trying to insert itself into what is happening in Venezuela is what is the problem.

00:04:23.000 So they're doing that through...

00:04:40.000 I think we're good to go.

00:04:49.000 To come in and threaten to use their military to topple our government or to tell us who should or shouldn't be the leaders in our country.

00:04:56.000 We shouldn't be doing that in their country.

00:04:58.000 There are serious issues that are causing a lot of suffering for the Venezuelan people.

00:05:04.000 If we really want to be helpful, we should be a force to help move towards reconciliation.

00:05:12.000 And peace rather than what this administration is doing, which is throwing fuel on the flames of a civil war that'll be devastating, devastating.

00:05:23.000 When you say move towards reconciliation and peace, how so?

00:05:26.000 Well, you see, there's differences, right?

00:05:27.000 There's the people who are with the current government in Venezuela and there is the opposition.

00:05:32.000 Clearly, they have differences on what kind of future, what kind of governance and who should lead that government.

00:05:38.000 I think?

00:05:55.000 That we, the American people, pay, rather than saying, hey, let's work towards peace, try to push forward diplomacy and find what are the conditions that would make some form of reconciliation going forward.

00:06:10.000 Is there an argument, and I really don't know the answer to this, but is there an argument that these regime change wars, although terrible, we would be way worse off if those weren't in place?

00:06:20.000 I think that's an argument that proponents for regime change wars try to make, but history shows and proves that the very opposite is true.

00:06:31.000 Look at Iraq. 0.93

00:06:32.000 You can look at Libya.

00:06:34.000 You can look at Syria.

00:06:35.000 You can look at Guatemala and Ecuador.

00:06:37.000 You can look at other countries, Iran, where in the past we have either overtly or covertly through the CIA gone in and toppled leaders of countries or dictators or regimes.

00:06:49.000 I think?

00:07:17.000 So is this one of those things that's just a counterintuitive thing where you would think that getting rid of someone like Qaddafi would be a good idea? 0.99

00:07:26.000 He's a terrible, evil person. 0.94

00:07:28.000 But they get rid of him and now Libya is a failed state. 0.99

00:07:31.000 It's horrible what is happening in Libya as a result of that.

00:07:34.000 You can watch slave auctions on YouTube.

00:07:37.000 It's insane.

00:07:38.000 Exactly.

00:07:39.000 It's hard to imagine that an era of YouTube and slave auctions exists in a place that, you know, at least some part of the blame has to be on us supporting the rebels that went in and took out Gaddafi.

00:07:52.000 Like, it's not good to have...

00:07:53.000 See, it's one of those counterintuitive things, right, where it's not good to have an evil person in control of a country.

00:07:58.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:07:58.000 But it's also not good to kill him. 0.99

00:08:00.000 They get rid of them, and then this power vacuum, right? 0.97

00:08:29.000 What role should the United States play?

00:08:47.000 And with Libya, not only do we see strengthened terrorist groups, there are terrorist groups all over Libya now, failed state.

00:08:54.000 The Libyan people are suffering now far more than they were before.

00:08:58.000 But we see the ramifications of that in countries like North Korea, where, again, John Bolton and the Trump administration is talking about using the Libya model with North Korea as we work towards this objective of denuclearizing the Korean Peninsula.

00:09:18.000 One of the leaders in the North Korean government just said the other day, the United States government is talking about using the Libya model with North Korea to get them to get rid of their nuclear weapons.

00:09:29.000 They don't want to end up like Libya or Iraq. 1.00

00:09:33.000 Where in Libya, as you remember, the United States went in and told Gaddafi, hey, get rid of your nuclear weapons program and we're not going to come after you.

00:09:41.000 And he did.

00:09:42.000 He got rid of it.

00:09:43.000 And what happened?

00:09:44.000 A very short time later, the United States and other countries went in and took him out.

00:09:48.000 So that action and that decision, that policy is directly undermining our national security and our efforts to make us and the world more safe to denuclearize the Korean Peninsula.

00:10:01.000 So would the argument for regime change wars being that, would it be that if we didn't go over there and if we didn't have a military presence and we didn't make them fight against us, that they would somehow or another gain more power and we would deal with this evil superpower?

00:10:17.000 Is this like the worst case scenario for the pro-interventionalist foreign policy?

00:10:24.000 I wouldn't even go that far.

00:10:26.000 I mean, the argument that's made by people who are advocating for these regime change wars is we've got to do something to help people who are suffering.

00:10:36.000 That's generally the argument that's made.

00:10:39.000 And they sell this to the American people knowing that, hey, we have good hearts and we want to help people if we can.

00:10:47.000 But what they fail to do is to tell the truth and be honest about what they are hiding behind this guise of humanitarianism.

00:10:58.000 I mean, if you look at Saudi Arabia, for example, and you look at the kinds of atrocities that that theocratic dictatorship is conducting against its own people, decapitating LGBTQ people, persecuting religious minorities, being the biggest propagator of this most extreme intolerant ideology of Islam that is fueling terrorist organizations like ISIS and Al-Qaeda,

00:11:24.000 We're good to go.

00:11:38.000 Saudi Arabia is a great ally of the United States.

00:11:42.000 But then you look at what's happening in Venezuela, ready to launch our military to go in and take out another dictator, ready to go in and launch our military, ready to go and wage a war against Iran.

00:11:55.000 So this is evidence of the hypocrisy that exists between those who are waging regime change war in some countries—by the way, usually countries that don't have nuclear weapons— We're good to go.

00:12:28.000 Your position on Syria is one that I think people have misconstrued.

00:12:33.000 Why don't you tell me?

00:12:34.000 That's putting it nicely.

00:12:35.000 Trying to put it as nicely as possible.

00:12:37.000 They've actually said that you are an Assad supporter.

00:12:41.000 I know this is not correct. 0.84

00:12:42.000 But is that one of those things where people just say that in order to sort of diffuse you, to categorize you as a ridiculous person right off the bat, where no one can take anything else you say seriously?

00:12:52.000 Yeah.

00:12:53.000 It's the usual tactic of trying to smear or vilify me and my campaign and what I'm advocating for because they don't want to engage on the actual issue itself that I'm pointing out about how devastating and costly their policies are.

00:13:11.000 Of continuing to wage these wasteful regime change wars, of choosing to support terrorist groups like Al Qaeda in Syria, directly in Syria, because they are the most powerful force on the ground who's fighting to take out the regime,

00:13:28.000 Assad's government.

00:13:29.000 So they're so focused on toppling this government in Syria that they're willing to actually use taxpayer dollars to provide direct and indirect support to Al Qaeda terrorists in Syria.

00:13:41.000 When you think about how crazy this is, it makes me angry.

00:13:47.000 I think it makes most people angry.

00:13:49.000 It's why I introduced legislation called the Stop Arming Terrorists Act.

00:13:53.000 Why we would need to have such legislation is beyond me, but clearly we do, to make it so that we don't have any taxpayer dollars going directly to provide any kind of arms or support or anything to terrorist groups like al-Qaeda, but also to make it so that we are not providing support indirectly through countries like Saudi Arabia who are providing that support to terrorist groups.

00:14:16.000 So what has been said of you about Assad and your position on Assad?

00:14:25.000 Virtually everything.

00:14:27.000 I mean, I'll just tell you what happened.

00:14:28.000 I went to Syria to meet with Syrian people, to hear for myself from them about what was happening there.

00:14:37.000 While there, I was offered the invitation to meet with the president of Syria, and I took it.

00:14:43.000 I think it's important for us to have the courage to meet with leaders, whether they be friends or adversaries or potential adversaries, if our focus is on national security and on peace.

00:14:56.000 So I went and I had that meeting and I asked some tough questions.

00:15:01.000 I heard from him his perspective on what was happening and what he was doing in his country and took the opportunity while there to meet with religious leaders, college students, members of the political opposition, small business owners,

00:15:17.000 You know, women who are working to start their own business to empower other women, Shia, Sunnis, Muslims, Christians, Catholics, people of all different religions.

00:15:29.000 It is because of that and that meeting and my staunch opposition to regime change wars in Syria and in other countries that political opponents and others have chosen to try to smear me, my reputation,

00:15:45.000 and my campaign And to label me, as you said, you know, she's a supporter of this dictator. 0.74

00:15:51.000 Well, if that's true, then anyone who opposed the Iraq war is a Saddam Hussein lover, is a lover of dictators and loves Saddam Hussein. 0.50

00:16:04.000 So if you challenge their logic, you see how shallow it is, and there's really none there.

00:16:09.000 And what's exposed is their refusal to engage on the facts and to stand behind why they continue to put the American people through these costly regime change wars and why they continue to wage these wars that are causing incredible suffering for people in different parts of the world.

00:16:27.000 It also, when you're having these conversations, Which are incredibly important globally.

00:16:34.000 When you choose to distort people's positions like this, you're not helping anybody.

00:16:38.000 You're making the whole thing more confusing.

00:16:41.000 So for someone like me who's on the outside and has to watch all this go down, I have to go, why do you have reasonable people that make inaccurate statements about someone because they feel like if you do not If you don't refuse a meeting with Assad,

00:16:59.000 there's something wrong with you, right?

00:17:01.000 To not want to be in the presence of this person. 0.70

00:17:05.000 Yeah, I mean, there's so much hypocrisy around this.

00:17:10.000 You know, a lot of these people are the same people who applauded President Obama when he first ran for president in 2008. When he, I mean, he did, he caused some controversy at that time saying, yes, he would meet with the leader of Iran without preconditions, that he would meet with leaders of other countries in that pursuit of national security and peace.

00:17:30.000 Yeah.

00:17:31.000 So why the double standard here that, okay, so in order to keep our country safe, in order to achieve peace, we're only going to meet with our friends and people who we agree with.

00:17:42.000 That's not how you accomplish that mission.

00:17:45.000 That's not how you accomplish security and peace.

00:17:47.000 It doesn't make sense.

00:17:48.000 No, it's like a social media version of running the world.

00:17:51.000 Sadly.

00:17:52.000 Sadly.

00:17:52.000 Now, had you ever met anyone like Assad before?

00:17:56.000 No.

00:17:57.000 What was that like?

00:17:58.000 No.

00:17:58.000 He was eager to meet.

00:18:00.000 He was eager to be heard, frankly.

00:18:03.000 Does he speak English?

00:18:04.000 Very well.

00:18:04.000 Really?

00:18:05.000 Yeah, I think he was educated in Europe.

00:18:08.000 A dentist, if I'm not mistaken.

00:18:12.000 Maybe he's an eye doctor.

00:18:13.000 He's not in the medical field.

00:18:16.000 And he was open to any and all questions that I had, both about what was happening in Syria, Syria's relationship or the lack thereof with Israel, a lot of the turmoil that we're seeing in different parts of the Middle East of Sunni versus Shia.

00:18:37.000 I think?

00:18:53.000 What's going on in Turkey?

00:19:11.000 I think?

00:20:04.000 I can imagine there's not a single country on earth that wants us to invade and take over.

00:20:08.000 I mean, it just seems like a bad idea for everybody.

00:20:11.000 Right.

00:20:11.000 Nor would we want that to happen to us.

00:20:14.000 I think that's really what's missing here is, you know, for so long we've seen this imperialistic mentality that still exists in our government where some feel like, hey, well, we should go and tell this country who should lead their government and tell them what kind of policies they should have,

00:20:32.000 but no other country should dare even attempt to do that to ours.

00:20:37.000 Well, our position is that we're the best.

00:20:39.000 And we're running this country the best way.

00:20:41.000 And this is the best country that's ever existed, ever.

00:20:44.000 It has the most freedoms.

00:20:46.000 It's got the most chaos.

00:20:47.000 It's got a lot of things going on that are not good.

00:20:50.000 But overall, we feel like we're the shining light of the world.

00:20:55.000 Maybe that's not accurate.

00:20:56.000 Maybe it's accurate in a lot of ways.

00:20:58.000 Yeah.

00:20:59.000 I think the problems begin when we go into other countries and try to create little mini Americas and impose it on the people there, whether they like it or not, whether they're ready for it or not, and we end up seeing what we're seeing across the Middle East. 0.75

00:21:16.000 Yeah, I think we just look at the rest of the world and go, well, I wouldn't tolerate that.

00:21:19.000 Why are they tolerating that?

00:21:20.000 Who is that guy?

00:21:21.000 Why does he get to run things? 1.00

00:21:22.000 They should kick his ass. 1.00

00:21:23.000 That's literally the American perspective. 1.00

00:21:25.000 But we don't want to send our... 0.75

00:21:33.000 We don't.

00:21:34.000 We the American people don't.

00:21:36.000 But this is the problem.

00:21:37.000 And this is something that I realized very quickly during my first deployment to Iraq, where I was seeing firsthand the cost of war, serving in that medical unit every single day.

00:21:47.000 And I wondered how many politicians in Washington who voted for, advocated for, or championed that war in Iraq were laying awake at night Thinking about my brothers and sisters who were getting killed in combat,

00:22:04.000 who were getting severely wounded, getting blown up by IEDs.

00:22:07.000 And I learned very quickly that they were not.

00:22:13.000 They weren't thinking about the real costs and the ramifications and the consequences of their decisions.

00:22:18.000 Jamie, who were we talking with the other day?

00:22:20.000 We were trying to say that we think that if you want to be the commander-in-chief, that you should probably have served.

00:22:25.000 Who was that?

00:22:27.000 It was a recent podcast.

00:22:30.000 C.T. Fletcher?

00:22:30.000 Yes, I believe that it was him.

00:22:32.000 Yeah.

00:22:32.000 Who was a veteran as well.

00:22:36.000 That's one thing that you have over them, for sure, is that you understand from firsthand experience and sacrifice what it means to actually be in war and to be in combat.

00:22:45.000 Yeah.

00:22:46.000 Yeah.

00:22:46.000 I mean, I still serve in the Army National Guard now over 16 years.

00:22:51.000 I've deployed twice to the Middle East.

00:22:53.000 And coupled with my experience in Congress, serving over six years on the foreign affairs and the armed services committees, working intimately on these issues related to national security and our foreign policy, meeting with leaders of different countries in the world,

00:23:10.000 it is these experiences and the understanding that I've gained from them What hurdles are you encountering that you didn't expect?

00:23:31.000 You know, a lot of what's happening are things that we kind of did expect.

00:23:37.000 You know, the smear campaigns, the misinformation campaigns.

00:23:42.000 Do you think that someone's doing this on purpose?

00:23:45.000 Or do you think this is team mentality in action, where people are supporting a particular candidate and they look at you as being competition in that candidate?

00:23:53.000 What do you think is happening?

00:23:54.000 I think it's probably a combination.

00:23:56.000 You know, I'm challenging people.

00:23:59.000 The establishment, challenging the status quo, challenging the foreign policy establishment, and challenging the political establishment in calling things as I see them, calling it straight and speaking the truth, whether that be calling out leaders within my own party or leaders of the other political party.

00:24:18.000 And, you know, I think that strikes fear in a lot of people who are uncomfortable with it, at a minimum, and who are concerned because when, you know, we the people rise up and say, hey, what's really going on here?

00:24:33.000 We're calling out...

00:24:34.000 Self-serving politicians in Washington from both political parties who are putting their own political interests or the interests of their party ahead of the interests of the people.

00:24:44.000 Or they're putting the interests of, you know, whatever greedy corporation and their lobbyists is writing the biggest checks to their campaigns ahead of the interests of the people.

00:24:53.000 So the more this awareness comes out, the more people stand up and speak out and say, hey, this is unacceptable.

00:24:59.000 This is unacceptable.

00:25:01.000 Then it's threatening that very power base that they have thrived and lived off of for far too long.

00:25:09.000 We should talk about how you're funded, too, just so people understand your position.

00:25:12.000 Yeah.

00:25:13.000 People-powered campaign.

00:25:14.000 We take no PAC contributions, no lobbyist contributions.

00:25:18.000 Every single dollar that comes to my campaign for president is coming from individual people across this country, whether it's a dollar or a thousand dollars, people who are giving whatever they can and joining this movement.

00:25:32.000 There's a great joke.

00:25:34.000 I think it's from Dennis Miller.

00:25:36.000 I hope I'm not misquoting it, but he was talking about how politicians wear patches in their jackets like NASCAR drivers.

00:25:42.000 Seriously.

00:25:43.000 That is.

00:25:44.000 Like you should have to know.

00:25:46.000 Seriously.

00:25:46.000 Yeah, someone should have to know.

00:25:48.000 Have those disclaimers there.

00:25:49.000 If I put my tinfoil hat on when I talk about...

00:25:52.000 These interventionist foreign policy wars and regime change wars.

00:25:57.000 The tinfoil hat thinks military industrial complex.

00:26:01.000 People being asked or forced into making decisions that benefit these giant corporations that make weapons and profit off a war.

00:26:11.000 This is the worst case scenario in terms of conspiracy theories.

00:26:15.000 The idea that someone wants war so that they can make money and they don't care if people die, even needlessly.

00:26:21.000 This is our number one conspiracy fear, right?

00:26:24.000 If you had to think about of all the things that you hope are not true about the way the world works, that would probably be number one.

00:26:30.000 Well, you can take your tinfoil hat off because the military-industrial complex is a real thing.

00:26:37.000 This is something that President Eisenhower talked about.

00:26:42.000 Which is an amazing speech.

00:26:43.000 Amazing speech.

00:26:44.000 His last speech as President of the United States, of all the things that he could talk about, he chose to focus on the military-industrial complex.

00:26:53.000 Should we play that right now?

00:26:54.000 It is.

00:26:55.000 I feel like we should play that.

00:26:56.000 Yes, absolutely.

00:26:57.000 Play that clip.

00:26:58.000 It's so crazy and most people have never heard it before.

00:27:00.000 And you hear about the term military industrial complex.

00:27:03.000 And one thing that has been done that's really interesting is the word conspiracy has become a dirty word.

00:27:10.000 Yeah.

00:27:10.000 And that dirty word or a word that it's easy to make something silly by calling it a conspiracy.

00:27:17.000 Yeah.

00:27:18.000 Even though there are times where people conspire to do things.

00:27:21.000 That's right.

00:27:22.000 I mean, that's why that word exists.

00:27:24.000 I mean, it's not like people don't make plans to do things that are illegal.

00:27:28.000 Of course they do.

00:27:29.000 That's why the FBI is around.

00:27:31.000 But this is from the National Archives, and this was Eisenhower's speech as he was leaving office.

00:27:37.000 I come to you with a message of leave-taking and farewell.

00:27:40.000 1961. Oh, who is this guy?

00:27:44.000 Jamie, you picked up the wrong version. 1.00

00:27:46.000 Son of a bitch. 1.00

00:27:47.000 I'm sure there's an actual version of it. 1.00

00:27:49.000 Yeah.

00:27:50.000 Here we go.

00:27:51.000 January 17th, 1961. Back when everything was black and white.

00:27:56.000 Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States.

00:27:58.000 Good evening, my fellow Americans.

00:28:00.000 We now stand ten years past the midpoint of a century that has witnessed four major wars among great nations.

00:28:10.000 This is a bad one too, Jamie. 1.00

00:28:12.000 You son of a bitch. 1.00

00:28:12.000 While he's looking for the right clip, what most people don't know... 1.00

00:28:14.000 I think he's just gonna play music in the background.

00:28:16.000 That's all it's gonna do.

00:28:18.000 What most people don't know is that his first draft of that speech said Congressional Military Industrial Complex.

00:28:29.000 Whoa.

00:28:30.000 And somewhere between the draft and the speech that was delivered, he took out that word Congressional.

00:28:36.000 But he was directly connecting those dots that some may say, oh, well, that's just a conspiracy theory.

00:28:43.000 But he was connecting those dots with the influence that the military industrial complex has.

00:28:48.000 On leaders in Congress who are making decisions about how our money is spent and where our troops are sent off into battle.

00:28:55.000 Congressional.

00:28:57.000 Congressional military industrial complex.

00:28:59.000 Wow.

00:29:00.000 I need extra foil.

00:29:03.000 Get you a new box.

00:29:06.000 It's crazy how they couldn't keep the camera steady back then either.

00:29:11.000 Here it goes.

00:29:12.000 Good evening, my fellow Americans.

00:29:14.000 A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment.

00:29:19.000 Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.

00:29:29.000 Our military organization today bears little relation to that known of any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.

00:29:43.000 Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry.

00:29:50.000 American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well.

00:29:57.000 But we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense.

00:30:03.000 We have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions.

00:30:09.000 Added to this Three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment.

00:30:17.000 We annually spend on military security alone more than the net income of all United States corporations.

00:30:27.000 Now this conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience.

00:30:36.000 The total influence, economic, political, even spiritual, is felt in every city, every state house, every office of the federal government.

00:30:47.000 We recognize the imperative need for this development, yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications.

00:30:56.000 Our toil, resources, and livelihood are all involved.

00:31:01.000 So is the very structure of our society.

00:31:05.000 In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex.

00:31:16.000 The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

00:31:23.000 We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes.

00:31:29.000 We should take nothing for granted.

00:31:31.000 You could listen to the rest of the speech if you want to online, but it's very chilling.

00:31:35.000 Yes.

00:31:36.000 Because this is the sitting president leaving office, and this is what he wants to tell people.

00:31:40.000 And a soldier.

00:31:41.000 Yes.

00:31:41.000 He's a guy who had military experience.

00:31:43.000 He's a guy who saw firsthand wearing the uniform and then serving as commander-in-chief, and this was his final warning to the nation.

00:31:53.000 Military companies are like most companies.

00:31:57.000 They always want to grow.

00:31:58.000 Companies seek infinite growth.

00:32:00.000 They constantly seek better quarters.

00:32:02.000 Every year they want to make more money than they did last year.

00:32:04.000 That's what they're doing.

00:32:05.000 They're in the business of making money.

00:32:06.000 They're not just in the business of...

00:32:08.000 Creating things.

00:32:09.000 They're creating things for profit.

00:32:11.000 That's right.

00:32:12.000 And they're going to have a little wiggle room, especially with politicians.

00:32:16.000 It's politicians that are in their pocket, and they've spent millions of dollars helping them along the way, and they're going to help each other.

00:32:24.000 Yeah.

00:32:24.000 And this long history of helping each other.

00:32:28.000 That's right.

00:32:29.000 You see that very directly through contributions that are being made to politicians by different defense contractors and the corresponding votes that are then taken.

00:32:42.000 But you also see this corruption that's happening before our very eyes happening within places like the Pentagon.

00:32:51.000 We're good to go.

00:33:21.000 This is happening.

00:33:23.000 This is what we need to change when we're talking about both campaign finance reform, but also reforming this kind of corruption and this revolving door that's happening in different parts of our government.

00:33:35.000 You see it happening in Wall Street, too.

00:33:37.000 The SEC regulators.

00:33:38.000 People are supposed to be regulating Wall Street or coming from Wall Street and then going back to Wall Street to work for the very same companies that they were supposedly just charged to regulate.

00:33:48.000 This is a big problem that we've got to fix.

00:33:50.000 Yeah, there's a fantastic documentary on that called Inside Job.

00:33:54.000 Do you see it?

00:33:54.000 Yeah.

00:33:55.000 It's amazing.

00:33:55.000 You see when he's confronting these guys who are professors who then go and take these jobs and make millions of dollars with the very regulations that they helped put into place.

00:34:06.000 That's right.

00:34:06.000 And it's happening with foreign policy as well.

00:34:08.000 When you look at who are the main people who go and testify in front of Congress, coming from think tanks, very well known think tanks, global think tanks that specialize in foreign policy, they don't have a placard on their desk when they're testifying before Congress saying,

00:34:25.000 we receive funding from Saudi Arabia, from Qatar, from the United Arab Emirates, from all these different countries who are spending a lot of money Funding these think tanks that then come forward and push policies or push ideas to leaders in Congress that not coincidentally benefit the countries that are funding them.

00:34:48.000 What could be done to stop that, other than someone like you getting into power?

00:34:55.000 And what could you do once you get in there?

00:34:57.000 I think two things.

00:34:59.000 I mean, obviously, as president and commander-in-chief, you set the tone for the kind of leadership that we have in this country that will put service above self.

00:35:08.000 And this is what I will bring as president, bring those soldiers' values up.

00:35:13.000 Of putting service above self, putting service to the American people and your country first and foremost ahead of everything else, ahead of the interests of a political party or a corporation or a foreign country, for that matter, and work to pass legislation in Congress that would close these revolving doors,

00:35:32.000 that would require this transparency when you're talking about who is funding who and where is this money coming from.

00:35:39.000 I think members of Congress should not be taking PAC contributions, should be relying solely on contributions from people in this country so that they know exactly who is funding their campaigns.

00:35:49.000 That really seems like a no-brainer.

00:35:50.000 Yeah.

00:35:51.000 That one seems like a no-brainer.

00:35:51.000 You really want what the people want.

00:35:53.000 It's something that's starting to happen organically as more and more people are calling for this kind of reform and saying, hey, look, if you want my vote, then I expect you to not accept those contributions and to run a people-powered campaign.

00:36:09.000 How many people are doing that besides you?

00:36:12.000 There's a couple who are running for president.

00:36:15.000 There is a slowly growing number of people who have run for and gotten elected to Congress.

00:36:21.000 But look, it's in the margins compared to where we need to be.

00:36:25.000 Now, one thing that exists now that really didn't exist when Obama was running for president is the impact of social media.

00:36:31.000 It's just tenfold what it used to be.

00:36:35.000 With that also comes this reality that we're living in right now where there's only a few companies that are controlling the discourse in this country.

00:36:43.000 Yeah.

00:36:43.000 I mean, you really have essentially a Facebook, Google, YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook owns Instagram.

00:36:50.000 That's right.

00:36:51.000 And there's, you know, a couple other small ones, but that's the bulk of our discourse.

00:36:55.000 Yeah.

00:36:57.000 What concern do you have about these private companies controlling the vast majority of communication between people on social media?

00:37:07.000 It's extremely dangerous.

00:37:09.000 It's extremely dangerous when you think about it.

00:37:11.000 And there's a few things.

00:37:12.000 There's...

00:37:14.000 Gosh, with Facebook and Google, for that matter, you know, they can set their algorithms, Mark Zuckerberg with Facebook, and set his algorithm to control what information is coming across our newsfeed in Facebook.

00:37:27.000 What are the stories that we're seeing?

00:37:29.000 Instagram, same thing.

00:37:31.000 With Google, they can control when you punch in something, what are the first stories that you're going to see on the first page that pops up?

00:37:40.000 When you think about that kind of power of influence that it has on the American people literally being held within the hands of a couple of people unchecked and without oversight or transparency, it's incredibly dangerous.

00:37:56.000 Let's talk about free speech.

00:37:57.000 There's just been news recently about Facebook banning certain individuals from having Facebook accounts because of their speech.

00:38:08.000 They disagree with the speech that they're using or the things that they're talking about, ideas that they're pushing forward.

00:38:14.000 Unchecked.

00:38:15.000 First Amendment rights going completely out the window.

00:38:18.000 The argument is they don't apply because it's a private company, right?

00:38:21.000 Yeah.

00:38:22.000 Yes, but they're trying to get the best of both worlds.

00:38:27.000 The fact that they're claiming to say, hey, this is a free space for open communication for everyone, while at the same time going and saying, actually, you know what, Joe, I don't like what you're saying about this, so we're going to ban you and whoever your friends are from this conversation.

00:38:45.000 I think that's a big problem.

00:38:47.000 It undermines our First Amendment rights.

00:38:51.000 Then you look at privacy, the privacy concerns of all the information that they're collecting in Facebook from us, all the information that they're collecting from us with Google, and how they're monetizing that and selling or sharing that information with other people really without our knowledge or agreement.

00:39:09.000 Right.

00:39:10.000 That's the part, right?

00:39:11.000 The agreement that most people didn't understand that your data is a huge commodity.

00:39:17.000 That's right.

00:39:17.000 And we signed up for these things.

00:39:19.000 Who reads terms of service agreements?

00:39:21.000 Have you ever read one?

00:39:22.000 Yeah.

00:39:22.000 No.

00:39:22.000 I've never read one of them.

00:39:23.000 I just say, okay, all right.

00:39:25.000 I start to get through the first two paragraphs like, okay.

00:39:27.000 I hope it's not ugly.

00:39:28.000 I hope there's nothing terrible in there.

00:39:30.000 You know what I think back to?

00:39:31.000 There is a South Park episode that is specifically about the terms and conditions.

00:39:38.000 And I watched it a long time ago, but every time I see one of those things pop up, signing the terms, I'm like, oh, man.

00:39:45.000 Yeah.

00:39:46.000 That was Cartman, right?

00:39:47.000 Yes.

00:39:48.000 Yeah, something happened.

00:39:48.000 Yeah.

00:39:49.000 We can't talk about it.

00:39:51.000 But there's a thing that they're doing.

00:39:55.000 There's a couple things they're doing.

00:39:56.000 But one of the things they're doing with your data, they find out what you're interested in, they find out what you're interested in engaging on.

00:40:03.000 Yeah.

00:40:04.000 And for many people, that's outrage.

00:40:06.000 So for many people, it's the things that piss you off the most. 0.96

00:40:09.000 Like if you have a real problem with Catholic priests getting away with having sex with little boys, you will think that that's happening every minute of every day all across the world because it's going to be in your newsfeed constantly because they know that's what makes you engage. 0.71

00:40:22.000 So your algorithm, the algorithm is your feed is going to be very different than my feed because I engage on different things than you do.

00:40:30.000 And the problem with that is even if they're not calculating, if it's not on purpose, they're not trying to get people outraged.

00:40:37.000 It's not like they're trying to rabble-rouse, but what they are doing is they... 1.00

00:40:41.000 Because they have an ad-supported model, they gravitate towards the outrageous because that's what people get excited about, and that's what people make multiple posts about, and that's how they make their revenue.

00:40:51.000 It's a bad ad model.

00:40:53.000 It's an ad model that inadvertently supports outrage.

00:40:57.000 And it makes people think the world's a worse place.

00:40:59.000 And divisiveness and all of it.

00:41:00.000 And the tribal boundaries between the two sides on these issues are more tense.

00:41:07.000 And you would think that discourse and the ability to freely communicate would kind of open that up and people would kind of understand each other better.

00:41:15.000 But it's not happening. 0.92

00:41:16.000 It's like Twitter is a garbage fire all day long. 0.92

00:41:20.000 It's just fire.

00:41:21.000 Like you can't post anything about anything and there's people just jumping on people and it's It's a crazy thing that has happened that we gravitate towards the outrageous.

00:41:31.000 I don't think that should be rewarded financially.

00:41:35.000 If this is just what people go to organically, that's one thing.

00:41:40.000 But when you're cultivating feeds, or at least your algorithm is cultivating feeds so that people get pissed off, you're making the country a shittier place.

00:41:50.000 You're literally making things worse.

00:41:54.000 Yeah.

00:41:54.000 I mean, this is one of the reasons why I think a couple of things should happen.

00:41:59.000 And I think his name is Chris Hughes, who co-founded Facebook with Zuckerberg.

00:42:05.000 I saw that, yeah.

00:42:05.000 Did you see his article calling for Facebook to be broken up?

00:42:08.000 Yes, which is crazy.

00:42:10.000 You hear about the person who founded it, and he's saying this is out of control.

00:42:14.000 And that's the point right now, is seeing how powerful, as you said, guys like Mark Zuckerberg have become.

00:42:22.000 And how out of control things are.

00:42:25.000 Well, some of it just doesn't make sense.

00:42:27.000 Like, here's one.

00:42:27.000 They just banned Alex Jones.

00:42:29.000 Not only did they ban Alex Jones, but you can't talk about Alex Jones. 0.98

00:42:34.000 If you wrote, Alex Jones might be nuts, but damn, is he cute. 0.96

00:42:38.000 If you wrote that, you would get a message that says, only you can see this message. 0.96

00:42:44.000 This message is stopped at the border from entering into the Facebook universe. 0.99

00:42:50.000 Like, what the fuck? 0.99

00:42:51.000 You can't just... 0.99

00:42:52.000 Like, what if you want to say something funny?

00:42:54.000 You can't say something funny.

00:42:55.000 No, you can only say something if you're criticizing him.

00:42:58.000 Right.

00:42:59.000 This is what they've said. 0.99

00:43:00.000 So they're telling you how to think, which is fucking insane. 0.99

00:43:04.000 It is insane. 0.99

00:43:05.000 Because that's not just free...

00:43:06.000 That's not just a violation of free speech.

00:43:09.000 You're literally directing speech.

00:43:11.000 Yeah.

00:43:12.000 That's insane.

00:43:14.000 So you're not even blocking people from doing something hateful or evil.

00:43:19.000 You're blocking people from saying something that you disagree with.

00:43:23.000 That's right.

00:43:24.000 People have sent me messages that said, God bless Alex Jones, and they say, you can only see this message.

00:43:30.000 Facebook sends them a thing blocking that message.

00:43:33.000 Wow. 0.99

00:43:34.000 That's fucking crazy. 1.00

00:43:35.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:43:35.000 The idea that you think you can do that, that is nuts. 1.00

00:43:38.000 Yeah.

00:43:39.000 I mean, being able to ban anyone arbitrarily without any, just violated terms of service.

00:43:44.000 There you go.

00:43:45.000 What does that mean?

00:43:46.000 Yep.

00:43:46.000 Okay, be specific.

00:43:48.000 I mean, they took a bunch of people out, right?

00:43:51.000 Like Louis Farrakhan was one, Alex Jones, Paul Joseph Watson was like, what did that guy ever do?

00:43:57.000 I mean, people don't agree with them.

00:43:59.000 I think what's happening is there was some serious concern that Facebook was used to influence the last election, whether against their knowledge or in a way where they were negligent about the type of filtering they use that stops people from posting propaganda and particularly stops... 0.96

00:44:20.000 These things like the IRA, the Internet Research Agency in Russia, that literally creates thousands of profiles and pages, and they'll have a Black Lives Matter page that's just designed to fuck with cops, and then they'll have a pro cop page that's just designed to fuck with Black Lives Matter. 0.95

00:44:37.000 All they want to do is create anger. 0.89

00:44:40.000 And they're doing this, engineering these arguments.

00:44:43.000 This is a 100% proven fact.

00:44:46.000 Renee DiResta, who had been on my podcast, went over the details of how it's set up and how they do it and the memes and the memes that they create.

00:44:53.000 This is an organized effort that they channeled through Facebook in particular and then Instagram and a couple other social media sites.

00:45:01.000 You know what's interesting about Renee? 0.60

00:45:02.000 She worked for New Knowledge, right?

00:45:04.000 I do not know.

00:45:05.000 I think she was the director for New Knowledge.

00:45:10.000 They...

00:45:12.000 This company, New Knowledge, that the DNC has tapped as one of their disinformation campaign experts and cyber experts, was the very same company that created false accounts and pretended to be Russian bots in order to influence a U.S. Senate election in Alabama.

00:45:35.000 Yeah, I'd heard of that, right?

00:45:36.000 That's something that she was not a part of, but it happened before her time?

00:45:40.000 She was the director of research, it says.

00:45:42.000 At New Knowledge, right.

00:45:44.000 But that's post this happening, correct?

00:45:46.000 I don't know.

00:45:47.000 She sent me an email about it, because I questioned her about it after it happened. 1.00

00:45:51.000 And I don't think she's full of shit. 1.00

00:45:53.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:45:53.000 Well, I've never met her, but I know that that company is one that is often cited as a so-called expert and was a company that was cited to try to smear my campaign as somehow being an engine for the Russians or something like that, 1.00

00:46:11.000 which to me, again, just points to, well, let's look at the so-called experts that you're citing in this company, New Knowledge, and the kinds of actions that they've been taking.

00:46:23.000 The very same ones that they're criticizing others for doing.

00:46:25.000 It's a dirty world out there.

00:46:28.000 It's a wild west in the internet.

00:46:30.000 It is!

00:46:31.000 It is a wild west in the sense that, I mean, I think there should be regulation.

00:46:36.000 Like, I mean, I don't think you should be able to put child porn everywhere.

00:46:39.000 I don't think you should be able to dox people.

00:46:40.000 But it's like, where does that border stop?

00:46:43.000 Where does that regulation border stop?

00:46:44.000 And I think it's a very good question.

00:46:46.000 Do you think that these social media platforms, whether it's Google or Twitter or whatever, Facebook, do you think that they should be treated as a public utility where everyone essentially has the right to use them?

00:46:58.000 You have the right to use water.

00:47:00.000 You don't have the right to take a hose and smash your neighbor's window and flood his house.

00:47:04.000 That's right.

00:47:05.000 I do.

00:47:06.000 I do think that they should be regulated like that, and they should be subject to the very same antitrust laws that have been used to make sure that we don't have other monopolies in other industries or in other areas to break them up.

00:47:22.000 And I think that was something that Chris Hughes outlined in his article.

00:47:26.000 The very first step that could be taken is just to say, hey, you've got Facebook needs to let go of Instagram and WhatsApp.

00:47:40.000 Mm-hmm.

00:47:55.000 Any kind of competition and squashing that competition from coming up and saying, hey, you know, you've got Facebook and then you've got this other new social media technology.

00:48:04.000 They've got better privacy standards and better service for the consumer than Facebook.

00:48:09.000 But anytime that tries to happen, you know, they're quickly squashed by companies like Facebook or Google for that matter.

00:48:16.000 Or bought up.

00:48:17.000 Or bought up, exactly.

00:48:18.000 Yeah, that's...

00:48:20.000 The big concern is that there's just not enough variety.

00:48:25.000 And there's also a big concern that—I have a big concern—that there's a bunch of people that don't seem to understand the consequences of what they're calling deplatforming people.

00:48:35.000 It's basically censoring people.

00:48:37.000 Taking people out of the public discussion.

00:48:40.000 And when you do that and you create a bubble or you create a one-party leaning institution, one-party leaning conglomeration of human beings, you're going to develop some real anger on the other side.

00:48:56.000 And it does the opposite of what you want it to do.

00:49:00.000 What you want it to do is make the world a better place.

00:49:02.000 Let's take some of these angry voices out of the mix and let's make the world a better place.

00:49:06.000 Yeah.

00:49:06.000 It just makes them more angry.

00:49:08.000 And encourage discourse.

00:49:10.000 Encourage these kinds of conversations where you can engage with people who might have a different view on an issue or might have a different experience that they bring to the conversation and to do so that actually helps increase the knowledge and understanding that we have.

00:49:25.000 Yeah, I think we have to reward civil discourse as well.

00:49:29.000 I think we have to be kinder to each other. 0.98

00:49:30.000 We have to be more upset at people that are acting like shitheads online for no reason. 0.93

00:49:37.000 You think that it's just online, but what it is is communication. 1.00

00:49:42.000 And if you're interested in shitty communication online, you're just a shitty communicator. 0.97

00:49:48.000 All this calling it being a troll and all these different things. 0.98

00:49:52.000 Labels that people put on to make it cuter and whitewash it.

00:49:55.000 It's not good.

00:49:56.000 It's not good for anybody.

00:49:57.000 And if people could figure out how to be less angry in their online lives and communicate about issues, I think we'd find that we meet more in the middle than we think we do.

00:50:10.000 I think there's also a problem that people have where they become married to their ideas.

00:50:14.000 And they dig their heels in and they support their ideology and they're very rigid about it.

00:50:19.000 And that is only strengthened when you silence people.

00:50:23.000 It does the opposite of what you're hoping it's going to do.

00:50:27.000 It makes the world a worse place.

00:50:29.000 Look, if people are saying things that you don't like, you don't have to read that.

00:50:32.000 But if you tell people that no one can read that, they're going to go, why do you get to decide?

00:50:37.000 And who are you?

00:50:38.000 Exactly.

00:50:39.000 Who are you?

00:50:39.000 You are a regular person?

00:50:41.000 How wise are you?

00:50:42.000 How many steps ahead have you played this game?

00:50:44.000 That's right.

00:50:45.000 Because I'm looking at this game.

00:50:46.000 I'm looking at Civil War.

00:50:47.000 I'm looking at worst case scenario.

00:50:49.000 This goes to that.

00:50:50.000 That goes to this.

00:50:51.000 This guy attacks that.

00:50:52.000 That guy attacks this.

00:50:53.000 They can't talk anymore.

00:50:54.000 You got people fighting in the streets.

00:50:56.000 That happens.

00:50:57.000 Exactly.

00:50:57.000 That's a human characteristic.

00:50:58.000 That's right.

00:50:59.000 That's right.

00:50:59.000 And that is where this path ends up, this path that we're on of this hyper-partisanship, this extreme divisiveness, where it's either you're in my tribe or you're in the other tribe and the arrows are pointed at each other without any willingness to,

00:51:15.000 once again, let's just have a conversation.

00:51:17.000 Let me hear where you're coming from, hear where I'm coming from.

00:51:19.000 We can disagree without being disagreeable.

00:51:22.000 We can even have a heated conversation and a debate.

00:51:24.000 And I would say that what you're saying is patriotic.

00:51:27.000 This is patriotic.

00:51:28.000 And I think it's unpatriotic to be partisan.

00:51:31.000 Because I think we're supposed to be on a team together.

00:51:33.000 This is supposed to be Team America, right?

00:51:35.000 Exactly.

00:51:36.000 What are we doing?

00:51:37.000 We're fighting over nonsense and mischaracterizing people's positions just to suit our own ideas.

00:51:43.000 That's right. 1.00

00:51:44.000 It's foolish. 1.00

00:51:45.000 It's foolish. 1.00

00:51:46.000 And as you said, it's extremely dangerous. 0.99

00:51:48.000 And the American people are the ones who ultimately lose in all of this.

00:51:53.000 This has been one of the most frustrating things that I've seen and experienced throughout my over six years in Congress that really started when I first went up after I got elected, where after every election happens, the new members of Congress, they go and they have what's called new member orientation.

00:52:12.000 We're good to go.

00:52:32.000 And what we're told right off the bat is, look, this is about getting wins for our political party.

00:52:40.000 And if you work with a Republican, then that's going to hurt the party, especially if you work with a Republican that the Democratic Party is trying to take out.

00:52:48.000 Forget the substance of the idea.

00:52:50.000 Forget the substance of the bill.

00:52:52.000 And this happens on the opposite side as well, Republicans with Democrats.

00:52:55.000 Both political parties are guilty of this, where they're really putting the interests of the political party ahead of the people who just voted for us to go and serve them.

00:53:06.000 And not just the Democrats who voted for me, but yes, the independents and the Republicans, both who voted for me or who didn't.

00:53:13.000 But who I serve as part of my constituency.

00:53:18.000 And I've continued to see this, where you'll have a bill that because it's a Democrat bill, Republicans will vote against it, substance aside.

00:53:28.000 Or a Republican bill, Democrats will vote against it just because it's a Republican bill.

00:53:32.000 But then, hey, if they come in and a month or a year later introduce the same bill or a similar bill, but now because it's a Democratic bill, okay, everybody, hey, let's go and support...

00:53:44.000 You can imagine why there is so much gridlock in Washington, why nothing really gets done, and ultimately how this divisiveness and this hyper-partisanship is hurting the ability for...

00:54:00.000 The needs of the American people to be served.

00:54:02.000 When you talk about people like yourself that are completely funded by the public and you have this very logical and objective way of discussing this gridlock, do you think that the future is in young people like yourself getting involved in politics,

00:54:20.000 that they're not connected to this old world for 35, 45 years?

00:54:25.000 This world, it sounds like this is just what you do.

00:54:28.000 I mean, I watched House of Cards.

00:54:29.000 I get kind of.

00:54:30.000 I get it sort of.

00:54:32.000 That seems like chaos.

00:54:34.000 It seems like there's no way to fix that.

00:54:36.000 It's almost like these people have to stop being politicians. 0.97

00:54:39.000 They have to be voted out or die off.

00:54:42.000 Well, I think it's evident where we see those who are very entrenched in this broken system feel very threatened by the rise of people-powered campaigns, individual contributions coming in,

00:54:57.000 and supplanting the big money that they get from the PACs and lobbyists.

00:55:05.000 And there's fear there because they see their whole world being disrupted by people like me or others who are coming in and saying, no, we're not buying into any of that.

00:55:16.000 And we're coming in to actually fulfill the mission that we've been charged with by those who voted for us to serve the people, all the people of this country.

00:55:27.000 This is my position.

00:55:29.000 I think that Trump plays a part of that because I think he was the first guy to come in basically self-funded or being funded through his own means and not listening to the rest of the Republican Party saying, hey, I'm going to take over and I'm going to do this my way.

00:55:46.000 And then knowing that he could do that and knowing that there were so many Republicans against him and knowing that there are so many Democrats against him as well, but yet he's still the president.

00:55:54.000 People are like, Jesus, this is a fragile system.

00:55:56.000 This system is—what they've done to acquire power is still very vulnerable, even though they have this deeply entrenched system of weird little relationships that it's not good enough.

00:56:09.000 That if the people do rise up and they decide, hey, we want to put Tulsi in as president— You're going to have a different situation. 0.95

00:56:16.000 A lot of you clowns are going to be out of work. 0.96

00:56:17.000 Absolutely. 0.96

00:56:18.000 And that's the message that we're carrying to living rooms and town halls and communities across the country is Washington continues to underestimate the power of the people.

00:56:29.000 And it's supposed to work for you.

00:56:31.000 Exactly.

00:56:31.000 And that's the thing is our founding fathers had this vision for our country that our government would be of the people, by the people, and for the people.

00:56:40.000 And instead, what we have is a government of the rich and powerful by and for the rich and powerful, of the special interests and corporations by and for the special interests and corporations.

00:56:51.000 And, you know, we the people get left behind.

00:56:54.000 And they continue to talk to us like they're in control.

00:56:58.000 Yeah.

00:56:58.000 They're one of us and they're supposed to be public employees.

00:57:01.000 They're supposed to be servants. 0.95

00:57:02.000 That's right.

00:57:03.000 Of the public.

00:57:04.000 Yeah.

00:57:04.000 They don't talk like that.

00:57:05.000 No.

00:57:05.000 They talk like people who are in a position of power and influence.

00:57:08.000 Yeah.

00:57:09.000 And it's not healthy.

00:57:10.000 It's not a healthy perspective.

00:57:12.000 It's evident of that huge disconnect between the bubble that is Washington and the reality of the lives that we live every day, people all across this country.

00:57:21.000 That's always the case, though, when people get in control of things.

00:57:25.000 They always meddle, make it easier for them, make it better for them.

00:57:28.000 What can I do to make this a little easier?

00:57:30.000 Is there another way?

00:57:31.000 How can I help myself here?

00:57:33.000 How can I make sure that when I get out of office, I can do these public speaking tours and make a quarter million dollars a pop?

00:57:39.000 When I hear about the money those guys make to just go and talk, I'm like, who is paying for that?

00:57:44.000 Who is paying to listen to Hillary Clinton talk? 1.00

00:57:46.000 What are they getting out of it?

00:57:47.000 What are you getting out of that?

00:57:48.000 That's right.

00:57:49.000 Can I listen?

00:57:50.000 I would love to pretend to be a banker, to put a lizard skin face mask on and go sit with those bankers and listen to one of those conversations that Hillary Clinton got paid a quarter million dollars to talk to. 1.00

00:58:00.000 Yeah.

00:58:00.000 Never release the transcripts for.

00:58:01.000 What is that about?

00:58:04.000 It's some weird, sneaky deal that they make.

00:58:07.000 Yeah.

00:58:08.000 Nobody wants to pay that.

00:58:10.000 Go do that in Madison Square Garden.

00:58:12.000 See how many tickets you sell.

00:58:12.000 Yeah, right.

00:58:13.000 Exactly.

00:58:14.000 Bill and Hillary are doing the speaking tour thing right now. 0.99

00:58:17.000 I am baffled as to who is going to pay to go see Bill and Hillary bullshit them. 1.00

00:58:23.000 That's right. 0.99

00:58:23.000 They're doing it together now, right? 0.99

00:58:25.000 Yeah.

00:58:25.000 Bill is so old.

00:58:26.000 Why doesn't he just come clean?

00:58:28.000 I would love to get that guy and just get him drunk and have him just talk about life.

00:58:35.000 You've only got a few years left.

00:58:37.000 Everything's falling apart in your body.

00:58:39.000 What are your regrets?

00:58:40.000 What did you do wrong?

00:58:41.000 What could you have done differently?

00:58:42.000 Stop all this You should have him on your show, Joe.

00:58:47.000 I would love to.

00:58:48.000 I would love to do mushrooms with him.

00:58:49.000 That's what I wanted to.

00:58:50.000 I would have him on the show and do it in Colorado because they decriminalize mushrooms.

00:58:56.000 It's just this role of being the person that is in control of this country has always been this impossible task.

00:59:06.000 And when I see a person like you who wants to do it, I say, listen, you have some of the best ideas and the most healthy perspective that I've ever heard from anyone that's ever running for president.

00:59:16.000 But why would you want to do that to yourself?

00:59:18.000 Those are the two things that I think of.

00:59:20.000 Because it's not for myself.

00:59:22.000 And it's not to be in control of the country and the people.

00:59:26.000 It's to serve the people and our country.

00:59:29.000 It's a continuation of this mission that I've chosen for my life to be of service, to find different ways to do that.

00:59:36.000 You know, it started in Hawaii with gathering my friends as a kid and going and picking up trash off the beach on the weekends and experiencing even then at a young age that that made me happier and Yeah.

01:00:11.000 Serving that same flag that represents the American people with that laser-like focus on putting service above self.

01:00:20.000 And that's what I seek to bring to the White House, to restore those values of integrity and honor and respect, to make it so that that White House is a beacon of light for the American people, to know that that White House belongs to them and represents them and their interests and their interests alone.

01:00:37.000 Does anybody, even a person like you who's on the outside, do you think anybody truly knows what it's like to run the country until they get in there?

01:00:46.000 Can you even have an idea of how impossible a task it is to be in control of the economy, the environment, the infrastructure, the military, our position in the world?

01:00:58.000 It seems like the most insane duty to require someone to run all those things, to be aware of all those things, to be responsible for all of the successes and all of the failures.

01:01:11.000 Yeah.

01:01:12.000 It's an awesome responsibility.

01:01:14.000 There's no question about that.

01:01:16.000 And I think it fulfills that...

01:01:20.000 That higher calling.

01:01:23.000 That this is not about any kind of selfish interest.

01:01:26.000 This, for me, is not about any kind of ambition that I've had.

01:01:30.000 I've never had any kind of thought, well, I want to be president one day or even I want to be a member of Congress one day.

01:01:35.000 It's always been about how can I best be of service and how can I make a greater impact?

01:01:41.000 That's what I've seen throughout my time in Congress where I've served on these committees.

01:01:45.000 I've served on the Foreign Affairs and Armed Services committees.

01:01:48.000 I've been calling for and fighting for an end to these wasteful regime change wars, an end to this new Cold War and nuclear arms race.

01:01:56.000 There's only so much I can do as a member of Congress.

01:01:59.000 To be able to serve as President and Commander-in-Chief, I know that I can make that kind of impact and see change in our policy.

01:02:06.000 That keeps our country safe.

01:02:08.000 That moves us closer to that future of peace and prosperity.

01:02:11.000 And that's where I hope to be able to make a difference.

01:02:14.000 If you become president...

01:02:16.000 Excuse me.

01:02:16.000 When you become president...

01:02:17.000 There you go.

01:02:18.000 Sorry.

01:02:19.000 And you do get to change the way we spend money and stop spending money on these regime change wars, what would be the first thing you invested in in this country?

01:02:30.000 And how would you go about doing that?

01:02:32.000 That's a good question.

01:02:33.000 I think there's...

01:02:35.000 I'd want to give that some thought because there are a whole host of challenges that we're facing.

01:02:40.000 You know, I mean, healthcare is among the top of the list.

01:02:43.000 And, you know, we've talked a little bit about that the last time I was here.

01:02:46.000 Our crumbling infrastructure continues to be something that's not only just uncomfortable every time we're driving over potholes, it's actually threatening people's lives and well-beings.

01:02:58.000 I was in Iowa a few weeks ago and we visited a few communities that were completely inundated and devastated by the flooding that took place there, gosh, about three or four weeks ago now.

01:03:12.000 Many of them have not been able to return to their homes.

01:03:15.000 We went and helped out one family.

01:03:17.000 We were tearing down drywall and ripping up the floors and underneath the wood and the floors there was still like tons of water.

01:03:24.000 And they were talking about how even with the aid from FEMA and SBA loans, that they are unwilling to put a single dollar back into rebuilding their homes because they're hearing from the government and the Army Corps of Engineers that That it may take two to four years to fix the levees that broke down and caused that flooding.

01:03:49.000 So why would they go and try to pour their life savings back into rebuilding their homes when they could get flooded again in a year or in two years?

01:03:59.000 Because we're not making the kinds of investments in our infrastructure that we need to make.

01:04:04.000 So there's education.

01:04:06.000 I mean, there's a whole host of issues that I think we need to look at how we can best provide the resources that are necessary to improve those services to the American people and also look at how we're doing business and fixing the problems that exist within those different agencies.

01:04:23.000 Absolutely.

01:04:24.000 There's always been a call to help countries in need in the world.

01:04:28.000 There's always been a call for the United States to step in and do something, but yet there's problems in this country that never change.

01:04:39.000 There's bad communities in this country that are impoverished and crime-ridden that have been the same way for decades.

01:04:46.000 There was a former Baltimore police officer named Michael Wood who came on my podcast, and he was talking to me about the time when he was in the Baltimore Police Department.

01:04:55.000 They found a piece of paper that was documenting various crimes from the 1970s, one of the years from 1970-something, and it was the same exact crime in the same exact area that they were having problems with now,

01:05:11.000 whether it's homicide, Narcotics, whatever it was, they were having the exact same issue in the exact same places.

01:05:18.000 And then he realized, well, there's no effort put to change this.

01:05:22.000 If you're talking about decades and decades and decades, why wasn't there money funneled into this community?

01:05:30.000 Why isn't there some community centers that help children?

01:05:33.000 Why isn't there an emphasis on better education?

01:05:36.000 Why isn't there more police officers or at least Mm-hmm. 1.00

01:05:59.000 The weakest parts are the people that are born in a shit situation. 0.99

01:06:02.000 They don't get a good break. 1.00

01:06:04.000 They got a bad break.

01:06:06.000 They're born in a crime-ridden environment, and then they have to figure out how to be a better person while dealing with all this.

01:06:12.000 And then you've got people that are aloof to this that are like, hey, figure it out for yourself.

01:06:16.000 I did.

01:06:16.000 As if we all start from the same spot in this crazy game called life, because we don't.

01:06:21.000 Those people are in the worst spot.

01:06:23.000 Why can't we fix the worst spot?

01:06:25.000 It seems like we could.

01:06:26.000 If we can help Iraq, if we can invade Syria, if we can do some of the things that people either want us to do or we have done, why can't we do that? 0.93

01:06:36.000 Exactly.

01:06:36.000 And that's what I often remind people is that right now, today, we spend $4 billion every month in Afghanistan.

01:06:44.000 Four billion dollars.

01:06:46.000 Every month.

01:06:46.000 Every single month.

01:06:48.000 Imagine what could be done with those dollars and those resources in communities like Baltimore, in communities like Flint, Michigan, where people are still being poisoned by their water, where they're being lied to and cheated by their leadership,

01:07:03.000 where the governor sent in these inspectors and cleared the water saying, hey, everything's fine.

01:07:08.000 What he didn't tell people was that when those inspectors went in, I think?

01:07:39.000 And where our money is going and how it is counter to our national security.

01:07:43.000 It's making us less safe.

01:07:45.000 It's counter to the interests of our people and the people in those countries.

01:07:48.000 But this is why I talk about this everywhere I go because it's central.

01:07:52.000 It's central to our ability to address these domestic challenges that we are facing, we in this country are facing in communities across the country, dealing with health care, affordable housing.

01:08:04.000 There's a homeless crisis.

01:08:05.000 In both urban cities and rural communities, people who are not able to afford to put a roof over their heads, people who are working full time, maybe one, maybe two jobs even, still can't afford to put a roof over their heads.

01:08:17.000 There are serious issues that we need to address here, but to think that somehow we'll have the resources to do so without addressing where trillions of our dollars have been going now for the last several years is a lie.

01:08:30.000 It's just not true.

01:08:32.000 When you talk about people that are working full-time jobs and they still don't have enough money to get by, what could you do to change that?

01:08:40.000 Well, I think there's not one single action that can fix that.

01:08:46.000 I'm pushing for a living wage.

01:08:48.000 I think it's important that- What do you think that should be?

01:08:50.000 It's going to be different in different places.

01:08:53.000 I'm a co-sponsor of the congressional legislation to raise the minimum wage to $15 at the federal level.

01:09:01.000 You know, there has not been an increase in the federal minimum wage for a very long time.

01:09:06.000 And I think that's a step that can be taken.

01:09:09.000 But, you know, Los Angeles is like Hawaii, where a $15 an hour job is not going to be enough to pay the rent.

01:09:17.000 You've got high cost of living.

01:09:18.000 So living wage is going to be higher in communities like ours than it is in smaller communities or communities in the Midwest.

01:09:25.000 So what would you suggest for Los Angeles?

01:09:27.000 $20 an hour?

01:09:28.000 I don't know what the answer is here.

01:09:29.000 But it would have to be more.

01:09:30.000 I think so.

01:09:31.000 The argument against that would be that small businesses would go under or hire less people or that somehow or another it would be bad for business.

01:09:39.000 What do you think?

01:09:50.000 Right.

01:10:08.000 I'm really looking at the universal basic income and seeing how that could be a tool to help deal with a lot of these poverty-stricken communities and people who've been struggling and still unable to dig themselves out of a hole there.

01:10:23.000 And seeing how that potentially could replace a lot of the bureaucracy, a lot of the money that we're spending on bureaucracy and a lot of social welfare programs, perhaps to both save money and to provide support directly to people who need it.

01:10:38.000 So I think that's an option that we've got to consider.

01:10:41.000 It's not simple, and so I'm doing the research and figuring out how exactly that would work and how exactly we'd pay for it.

01:10:48.000 But we also have to look at affordable housing.

01:10:50.000 I think not accepting the fact that the high cost of housing is what it is, is not the solution.

01:10:59.000 There's a lot of money that goes into our Housing and Urban Development Department, but is it really having the effect that we needed to have to make it so that, you know, whether it's cops or teachers or firefighters, people who are working in these public service jobs are able to afford to live in the communities where they're working.

01:11:16.000 We were in Malibu yesterday.

01:11:17.000 We had a town hall there yesterday and took a tour with the mayor, city council members, community leaders around a lot of the areas that were completely devastated by the fires.

01:11:27.000 Yeah.

01:11:49.000 A million bucks.

01:11:50.000 And you don't even get to own the land that your trailer sits on.

01:11:53.000 And so this is a real problem that they're facing is people who are teaching in that area, the firefighters who are working in that area, they're not able to afford to live in the community that they serve.

01:12:02.000 But how could that be fixed?

01:12:03.000 That's a supply and demand thing.

01:12:32.000 Some communities are doing the same thing for first responders, for firefighters and others.

01:12:38.000 So this is a problem that a lot of city councils and local communities are trying to deal with and solve.

01:12:45.000 But I think it also points to a bigger problem that we have nationally, that there is just not enough affordable, truly affordable housing for working people in the country.

01:12:57.000 But a place like Malibu has always been this exclusive community because there's just not that much Malibu, right?

01:13:04.000 It's right next to the water, so it's more valuable.

01:13:06.000 Yeah.

01:13:07.000 Is there a way to do anything that would change that?

01:13:12.000 Well, that's what I was asking the mayor about.

01:13:14.000 What did he say?

01:13:15.000 That was one of the things they said that has been, you know, people look at Malibu and they're like, well, that's where a bunch of multimillionaire rich people go and buy their beach homes.

01:13:23.000 Yeah.

01:13:24.000 But there has always been, you know, the basis of that community was really founded on those who worked to build the community.

01:13:32.000 You know, middle class people who are increasingly being pushed out.

01:13:37.000 If you're not living in the home that, you know, your grandfather, your great-grandfather built, then you're not going to be able to afford to stay there.

01:13:45.000 So, you know, we didn't get into the details on what they're looking at, but this is something that the city council and the mayor are grappling with now, to be able to attract workers who want to work in the area, but who don't want to have to drive two hours or three hours just to get to their place of work.

01:14:04.000 Yeah, I just don't know how you would ever do that, especially with all those...

01:14:08.000 Fat cats that are living in Malibu.

01:14:10.000 I mean, it's a crazy place to live.

01:14:11.000 Yeah.

01:14:11.000 Those houses on the beach are like ridiculously expensive.

01:14:14.000 Yeah.

01:14:15.000 And that's where a lot of, I mean, a lot of the folks we were talking to yesterday, they live, you know, up on the mountain or in the valley or...

01:14:22.000 That's a better spot anyway.

01:14:23.000 The thing about being by the beach is people can just kind of hang out in your backyard, like right there, like right where your bedroom is.

01:14:30.000 There can be people that are cooking out four feet away from your head.

01:14:34.000 Yeah.

01:14:34.000 Not so much privacy.

01:14:35.000 Yeah.

01:14:36.000 You got none.

01:14:37.000 It's the beach.

01:14:37.000 It's everybody's.

01:14:38.000 Yeah.

01:14:39.000 People have tried to kick people off of it, too, which gets really strange.

01:14:42.000 Yeah.

01:14:42.000 There's been a lot of those cases where they hire private security.

01:14:46.000 Yeah.

01:14:46.000 But it's like trying to kick someone out of a park because you decided to have a picnic.

01:14:50.000 That's true.

01:14:50.000 Hey, man, this beach is everybody's.

01:14:51.000 Exactly.

01:14:52.000 That's the ocean, bro.

01:14:53.000 And it's got to stay that way.

01:14:53.000 Yeah, it has to stay that way.

01:14:55.000 It's got to stay that way.

01:14:55.000 I have a problem with, this is a personal problem, with municipalities that charge you to go to the beach.

01:15:03.000 It's crazy.

01:15:03.000 Yeah.

01:15:04.000 So if I have no money in my pocket, you're going to bar me from going and putting my feet on the sand and going for a surf in the ocean?

01:15:11.000 That's just wrong.

01:15:12.000 It's insane.

01:15:12.000 It's wrong.

01:15:13.000 It is wrong, right?

01:15:15.000 I mean, I could see if you had a donation box to help people clean up the beach.

01:15:21.000 That's all I could see.

01:15:22.000 Donations.

01:15:23.000 I'll throw some money in there.

01:15:24.000 I mean, I'll pay for my parking.

01:15:26.000 Sure.

01:15:27.000 Sure.

01:15:27.000 But don't stop me from coming on the beach.

01:15:29.000 I'll catch a bus if I don't have any money.

01:15:31.000 I'll catch a bus to the beach.

01:15:32.000 Poor people.

01:15:34.000 That's the whole reason we have these national parks.

01:15:37.000 National wilderness areas.

01:15:39.000 Anybody.

01:15:40.000 Anybody can get in there.

01:15:42.000 That's the beautiful thing about one of the best things about the system that we have in place in America.

01:15:47.000 Yes.

01:15:48.000 Is that there's so much public land.

01:15:50.000 Yes.

01:15:50.000 And people don't understand that.

01:15:52.000 They've never been to other countries where that's just not the case.

01:15:54.000 Everything is private in many, many countries.

01:15:56.000 You can't just go camping.

01:15:58.000 You can't just take a raft and go down the river.

01:16:01.000 You can't just do that.

01:16:02.000 And what happens when those public spaces are lost?

01:16:06.000 That's horrible.

01:16:07.000 When they're lost.

01:16:08.000 Forever.

01:16:08.000 When you pave over them, when you develop them, when your beaches become trash with pollution and others, it's a treasure.

01:16:17.000 It's a treasure that's lost.

01:16:18.000 Well, we have our forefathers to thank for their foresight, like Theodore Roosevelt saw this in advance and met with great resistance from a lot of big businesses that just wanted to put apartments up everywhere and start building factories.

01:16:33.000 And we created this incredible system of public land in this country that's unprecedented.

01:16:38.000 I mean, only Canada has something that rivals us.

01:16:41.000 I mean, I guess Australia's got a lot of public land too, but it's just, there's other countries that have it, but it's amazing what we have here.

01:16:48.000 And in terms of our diversity of scenery and where you could go too.

01:16:53.000 I mean, you could go to the desert or you could go to Idaho and, you know, go to Coeur d'Alene.

01:16:58.000 Or go see a volcano in Hawaii.

01:16:59.000 Yeah.

01:17:00.000 Well, I think you guys have an advantage.

01:17:01.000 I really do.

01:17:02.000 And I've said this about many people that are faced with Incomparable beauty and this inarguable sense of your perspective.

01:17:14.000 And I think if you're living on a volcano in the middle of the ocean, you're five hours by plane from anywhere.

01:17:21.000 Like, you guys have a different vibe, you know?

01:17:24.000 And I think...

01:17:27.000 You turn on the news or you talk to politicians in Washington about, okay, we've got to protect our environment and it becomes like a political talking point.

01:17:35.000 But I'm so grateful to have grown up in Hawaii and that talking point is actually a way of life.

01:17:43.000 Like this connection that we have with nature, with Mother Earth is something that's real and it's cultural and it's passed down from generations and I think?

01:18:10.000 We're good to go.

01:18:37.000 Somebody's uncle or auntie is going to see you and be like, hey, Junior, what's going on?

01:18:44.000 You're on an island.

01:18:45.000 Where are you going?

01:18:46.000 You've got to be nice. 1.00

01:18:47.000 You can't drive like a dick. 0.99

01:18:48.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:18:49.000 I worked for Senator Akaka, who is a U.S. Senator from Hawaii for many decades in Washington.

01:18:56.000 Yeah.

01:19:09.000 Yeah.

01:19:11.000 Yeah.

01:19:15.000 You don't talk stink about anybody in Hawaii, because you never know.

01:19:20.000 You might be related to them.

01:19:22.000 But, you know, it's good words to live by, whether you're related or not.

01:19:26.000 Just, hey, don't talk stink. 0.95

01:19:28.000 Don't talk trash about somebody. 0.90

01:19:29.000 Show respect.

01:19:31.000 Share that aloha.

01:19:32.000 Even if you're different, even if you disagree, show that respect.

01:19:35.000 That's what my boss did.

01:19:36.000 That's what Senator Akaka did.

01:19:38.000 And, you know, he passed away a couple of years ago, but people in Washington still remember and talk about him.

01:19:43.000 Democrats and Republicans.

01:19:45.000 It's just the kindest human being they've ever known.

01:19:48.000 The problem with people is talking stink is fun.

01:19:51.000 It is.

01:19:52.000 Especially when there's nobody around.

01:19:54.000 Right.

01:19:55.000 It's like a national pastime in many ways.

01:19:58.000 But yeah, the spreading of bad vibes is discouraged in an area where you kind of have to know most of the people around you.

01:20:06.000 Yeah.

01:20:07.000 Which I want to give a shout out to one of the guys I met yesterday in Malibu, a guy named Keegan.

01:20:12.000 He organized, I don't know, 20 or 25 of his friends.

01:20:17.000 And they went and they just started fighting fires in people's houses all on their own, organized aid stations and food stations, getting generators in.

01:20:26.000 They did incredible work.

01:20:27.000 But I told him I was coming on your show today, and he just said that Joe Rogan and his show has made such a deep impact on my life because he went from somebody who was really triggered, was the word he used,

01:20:43.000 by people who were saying things that he disagreed with, and you inspired him to kind of open his mind and his eyes to And to recognize that we are stronger and we are better when we have this kind of respectful discourse and we're open to hearing from and trying to understand people who may have a different view rather than being triggered and running away in the opposite direction or reacting in a negative way.

01:21:12.000 I just wanted to pass that on because you made a big impact on him and on a lot of his friends and a lot of people in the country.

01:21:21.000 And that's having a positive impact on our culture.

01:21:26.000 Well, that's very nice.

01:21:28.000 And shout out to Keegan.

01:21:28.000 I appreciate that.

01:21:30.000 I think that's something we can all learn how to do.

01:21:32.000 And I learned how to do it.

01:21:34.000 It's not something I was naturally...

01:21:38.000 I didn't naturally gravitate towards having good conversations with people. 0.91

01:21:42.000 I was a dickhead when I was young. 0.84

01:21:45.000 I was fighting all the time. 0.97

01:21:47.000 Most of what I did was I was involved with martial arts.

01:21:50.000 So I was always involved with competition.

01:21:52.000 It was always very intense.

01:21:53.000 And I was very competitive.

01:21:55.000 And I wasn't necessarily that nice all the time.

01:21:58.000 And when I examined my life over time, I realized that The things that always felt the worst were conflicts that were unnecessary, and particularly the things that I judged myself the most harshly weren't my mistakes or failures in my attempts at doing things. 0.98

01:22:18.000 It was my misbehaving, my just being a jerk. 0.84

01:22:24.000 Where it wasn't necessary or having an opportunity to be nice and not taking it or escalating things where I could have used diplomacy. 0.98

01:22:30.000 And I just learned over time that a lot of it is the way I was communicating with people where I was failing was how I was approaching their thoughts and that I was immediately trying to be right rather than listen to them.

01:22:45.000 And I was thinking about them differently than I think about myself.

01:22:50.000 One of the things that happened to me when I had children was I started thinking of people like babies that grew up.

01:22:56.000 I think of everyone like old people. 1.00

01:22:58.000 It freaks me out when I go to the...

01:23:00.000 I was in a casino yesterday. 0.99

01:23:01.000 I was passing by this old lady smoking cigarettes, playing bingo or playing roulette, rather, slots, whatever the fuck it is, whatever waste of money it is. 1.00

01:23:10.000 And I'm watching her do this and I'm like, God, that was a baby. 0.99

01:23:13.000 That was someone's baby.

01:23:14.000 Now here it is.

01:23:16.000 Barely hanging on.

01:23:17.000 And what happened between... 0.98

01:23:18.000 Who the fuck knows, right? 0.98

01:23:19.000 That time. 0.99

01:23:20.000 Maybe that's what she likes to do. 1.00

01:23:21.000 Maybe I'm just an idiot. 1.00

01:23:22.000 But my perspective has radically shifted. 0.97

01:23:29.000 And as I've gotten older and then started this podcast, the thing that I realized was that I needed to get better at talking to people when I was doing the podcast.

01:23:37.000 I needed to get better at listening.

01:23:39.000 And then I needed to have less bias...

01:23:45.000 Perspectives.

01:23:45.000 Less biased points of view.

01:23:47.000 And just try to understand what someone's saying.

01:23:49.000 And if I disagree, disagree.

01:23:51.000 And try to be as nice as possible while also being accurate about how much something bothers me.

01:23:58.000 Yeah.

01:23:59.000 But being nice.

01:24:00.000 We can do that.

01:24:01.000 We can all be better off that way.

01:24:03.000 And I share a lot of...

01:24:07.000 I mean, when you get to these...

01:24:08.000 If you want to look at the left or the right, I share so much in common with so many people in both the left and the right that I almost want to put a graph down of like, how do you live your life?

01:24:21.000 Like, are you nice to people?

01:24:22.000 Are you friendly?

01:24:24.000 Do you have good friends that you care about?

01:24:26.000 Do you have buddies that could call you at four o'clock in the morning and say, you got to drive two hours and pick me up, and you would immediately do it?

01:24:32.000 Yeah.

01:24:32.000 Like, what do you like?

01:24:34.000 Okay, then what's bothering you?

01:24:37.000 What's bothering you in the news?

01:24:38.000 What's bothering you?

01:24:39.000 And why do these things exist? 0.99

01:24:41.000 And how many of them are bullshit? 1.00

01:24:43.000 And for me, it's like there was a lot of them that were bullshit. 1.00

01:24:47.000 I was like, what am I wasting time and effort and thinking about? 0.99

01:24:49.000 What do I care what people do?

01:24:51.000 I don't.

01:24:51.000 I don't care.

01:24:52.000 I want you to be nice and that's it.

01:24:53.000 And then it gets down to Political and social issues.

01:24:58.000 And it gets down to the heavy ones, things like abortion and war and freedom of religion.

01:25:04.000 And these things, I think, are the ones where we should all just be communicating as calmly and as objectively as possible. 0.99

01:25:13.000 And we should discourage this tribal perspective, discourage this idea of being married to your own ideas and trying to win these arguments, which you see in Congress, which you see In political campaigns, which you see in Television news is a fucking dumpster fire. 0.65

01:25:33.000 Every single time they have the panel with the three people, it's just... 0.95

01:25:38.000 I can't watch it anymore.

01:25:40.000 It's nonsense.

01:25:40.000 Thank you for your time.

01:25:42.000 What did you...

01:25:42.000 What waste is this?

01:25:44.000 It's just people shouting over people. 0.99

01:25:46.000 You never find out what the fuck anybody really believes. 0.99

01:25:49.000 You just hear their talking points blurted and vomited out. 0.98

01:25:53.000 The facts, the news, what's actually happening is completely lost.

01:25:57.000 And it's so limited.

01:26:00.000 And this is how a lot of us are getting our view of the world.

01:26:03.000 Yeah.

01:26:04.000 And I feel like things are changing.

01:26:08.000 I think the world is a different place than it was even just 10 years ago.

01:26:12.000 I think so too.

01:26:13.000 I think humans are different.

01:26:14.000 And I think we're not aware of how much all of this conversation and all of our analyzing the world around us has shifted over the last decade or so.

01:26:25.000 Mm-hmm.

01:26:27.000 I feel like people are looking for the facts.

01:26:31.000 They're looking for more information.

01:26:33.000 They're less likely to just accept at face value what they're seeing on TV or what they're hearing, which I think is a positive thing.

01:26:42.000 And I think we do need to look at the leadership of this country to set this culture for civil discourse.

01:26:52.000 For making it okay and encouraging, actually, those kinds of conversations.

01:26:58.000 And that's where if you watch C-SPAN one night when you can't fall asleep, you'll see in the floor of Congress, you've got the Democrats who are all sitting on one side.

01:27:07.000 You've got the Republicans all sitting on the other side.

01:27:10.000 And Unfortunately, not often enough do you see intermingling in conversation and people going to the other side of the aisle and actually getting to know people.

01:27:21.000 That was something that when I first got elected, I was told, look, as a new member of Congress, serving in the minority with Republicans in charge, coming from a small state like Hawaii, you will never get anything done.

01:27:33.000 So just accept it.

01:27:34.000 Just accept that reality that you're not going to get anything done.

01:27:36.000 Wait several years or whatever.

01:27:39.000 But one of the first things that I did was I got to get to know people.

01:27:43.000 I got to make friends.

01:27:45.000 So my mom and dad, they're small business owners, and they have this macadamia nut toffee business.

01:27:53.000 And so I called home and I said, Hey, Mom, can you make 434 boxes of your toffee for every single member of Congress, all the Democrats, all the Republicans?

01:28:04.000 She's like, Wow, that's a great idea.

01:28:06.000 Yeah, sure.

01:28:06.000 I'd be happy to.

01:28:07.000 And then I said, oh, I got one more request.

01:28:10.000 Can you make a bigger box, 435 bigger boxes of toffee for the staff of every member of Congress? 0.99

01:28:19.000 Because they're the ones who make shit happen. 0.98

01:28:23.000 I think that's a great idea. 0.99

01:28:43.000 Making their way across from the Republican side to the Democratic side, saying, thank you so much.

01:28:50.000 I really appreciate it.

01:28:51.000 It was delicious.

01:28:52.000 I need to get more from you because I ate it all.

01:28:54.000 I got to take some home to my wife or my husband.

01:28:57.000 And then saying, tell me what's going on in Hawaii.

01:28:59.000 Tell me what issues your constituents are worried about.

01:29:02.000 I'm the chairman of the Transportation Committee, the Agriculture Committee, or whatever it is.

01:29:06.000 Let me know how we can work together.

01:29:08.000 Just that one small thing.

01:29:11.000 Outreach of Aloha opened the doors to these relationships that enabled me to be able to pass my first piece of legislation, like my first six months as a member of Congress from a small state in the minority as a Democrat.

01:29:24.000 And it's because just treating people with respect, treating people with Aloha and saying, yeah, we can disagree even on nine out of 10 things.

01:29:32.000 But on that 10th thing, like, hey, let's talk.

01:29:34.000 Let's get something done.

01:29:36.000 Was that eye-opening for you?

01:29:37.000 And did you, at that moment in time, realize, like, hey, not only can I make an impact here, I can do this the way I want to do it.

01:29:43.000 I can be a kind person and reach out.

01:29:46.000 And I don't have to listen to these people that are entrenched.

01:29:50.000 Exactly.

01:29:50.000 It directly disproved what we were told in those first days as new members of Congress in Washington.

01:29:57.000 I think?

01:30:23.000 That's a beautiful thing to hear.

01:30:26.000 It's true.

01:30:27.000 That's what people want to hear.

01:30:28.000 They want to hear someone who thinks that way.

01:30:31.000 Yeah.

01:30:31.000 And that, like, oh, we're okay.

01:30:33.000 We're going to be okay.

01:30:34.000 Like, we can move forward and be okay and do this like human beings, not like politicians.

01:30:40.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:30:41.000 There's a politician way of talking that I want you to avoid at all costs.

01:30:44.000 I want you to never do this thing with your thumb.

01:30:46.000 Don't do that. 0.98

01:30:47.000 Because if I was talking to someone and they did that thing with their thumb, I'd be like, hey, bro, what the fuck's wrong with your hand? 0.99

01:30:51.000 Right. 1.00

01:30:52.000 If you didn't just have a stroke, you'd put your goddamn hand down. 1.00

01:30:56.000 I never realized until I started watching myself give speeches on TV that I do talk a lot with my hands. 1.00

01:31:02.000 That's fine.

01:31:02.000 Just don't do that thing.

01:31:03.000 This one, yeah.

01:31:04.000 It's just as offensive as if you just started putting up your dukes.

01:31:08.000 If you started like, we're going to go out there and like, what are you doing, man?

01:31:11.000 Are you fighting people?

01:31:12.000 Exactly.

01:31:13.000 This is a weird thing.

01:31:13.000 Or worse yet, talking down.

01:31:15.000 This is a teacher move, I feel like.

01:31:17.000 This is a teacher move.

01:31:18.000 In the military, they call it the knife hand.

01:31:21.000 You see the drill instructors are like, come on, private, get back in line.

01:31:24.000 Yeah, but at least that's a drill instructor. 0.96

01:31:26.000 Exactly.

01:31:26.000 You're supposed to listen to them.

01:31:27.000 But that's the point, right? 1.00

01:31:28.000 This is a fucking public servant who's got a half a fist. 0.99

01:31:31.000 There's no reason to ever put your hand like that. 1.00

01:31:33.000 This is not a good move.

01:31:35.000 Like, unless you're trying to poke somebody in the eye, that's the only reason why you should have your thumb up like that.

01:31:40.000 Yeah, I don't even know where that comes from.

01:31:42.000 That's a Clinton move.

01:31:43.000 Clinton, I think, was the first guy to do it.

01:31:45.000 Really? 1.00

01:31:45.000 That was his shit. 1.00

01:31:46.000 He used to do that. 1.00

01:31:47.000 That's so funny.

01:31:47.000 Well, what we're going to do here...

01:31:48.000 He used to have this thing he would do with his thumb.

01:31:51.000 Yeah.

01:31:51.000 It would drive me crazy.

01:31:52.000 I'd be like, this is such a bizarre thing.

01:31:54.000 He doesn't want to be forceful, so he doesn't want to have a fist, and he doesn't want to do this...

01:31:59.000 So just stick one finger out, and that de-escalates.

01:32:03.000 Who was making fun of that Beto guy?

01:32:05.000 What's his name?

01:32:06.000 Yeah.

01:32:07.000 His hand movements.

01:32:08.000 He's got some wacky hand stuff that he does.

01:32:11.000 You can't be named Beto.

01:32:13.000 I'm sorry.

01:32:14.000 It's too close to Beta.

01:32:16.000 Everyone should have told him that.

01:32:17.000 You're one vowel away from being the most mocked thing in society when it comes to males.

01:32:23.000 You can't do that.

01:32:24.000 I don't even know if he's a good guy or not, but you can't do that.

01:32:26.000 You gotta change your name.

01:32:27.000 He's a good guy.

01:32:27.000 He's a friend of mine.

01:32:28.000 Change your name, homie. 0.99

01:32:28.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:32:29.000 It's too late.

01:32:30.000 You're going to have to get plastic surgery and come back with a different social security number.

01:32:35.000 It's just too close.

01:32:36.000 Yeah.

01:32:37.000 And don't be skateboarding.

01:32:38.000 No?

01:32:39.000 No.

01:32:39.000 What's wrong with skateboarding?

01:32:40.000 Unless you've got to know what you're doing.

01:32:41.000 Does he know what he's doing?

01:32:42.000 Or is he just goofing around?

01:32:43.000 He's a young dude.

01:32:44.000 He probably knows what he's doing.

01:32:45.000 It doesn't look like it.

01:32:46.000 It looks sloppy.

01:32:47.000 I didn't see it.

01:32:47.000 It looked pretty sloppy.

01:32:50.000 But it's a thing that people do with like, I'm one of you.

01:32:52.000 Come on, I'm one of you guys.

01:32:54.000 Come on.

01:32:55.000 It's like, get out of here with that, will you?

01:32:57.000 Yeah.

01:32:58.000 This is, I don't know.

01:32:59.000 Sometimes like, you know, I'll post little videos that Abraham takes with his GoPro of us out surfing.

01:33:05.000 And sometimes I get that from people like, oh, like, why are you trying to pretend something?

01:33:11.000 So I'm like, dude, I just love the ocean.

01:33:13.000 I love surfing.

01:33:14.000 I want to share this with everybody.

01:33:16.000 Yeah.

01:33:17.000 Yeah.

01:33:17.000 It's a simple thing.

01:33:18.000 People are funny like that.

01:33:20.000 They don't want you to be fake.

01:33:22.000 But they also don't want you to be real.

01:33:24.000 Ooh, that's true too.

01:33:25.000 Right.

01:33:26.000 Yeah.

01:33:26.000 That's true.

01:33:27.000 Yeah.

01:33:28.000 So it's, I don't know, it's some kind of in between or something.

01:33:31.000 I don't know.

01:33:32.000 Well, I think there's just certain people that are malcontents.

01:33:35.000 Yeah.

01:33:35.000 And you're not gonna, you know, if you addressed all the people that are upset at you all the time, you would never get anything done, right?

01:33:41.000 Yeah.

01:33:42.000 How are you recognizing that, though?

01:33:44.000 Because you're, how old are you?

01:33:46.000 38. You're not that young.

01:33:47.000 You know, you're very young in terms of, like, someone who's gonna be president.

01:33:52.000 Yeah.

01:33:52.000 That's young when you're 30s.

01:33:54.000 No, you're young.

01:33:55.000 Did you say you're not that young?

01:33:56.000 No, I'm not that young.

01:33:57.000 You're 38. For presidents?

01:33:58.000 That's young as shit. 1.00

01:33:59.000 How old was JFK when he got elected? 1.00

01:34:01.000 Is he like 41 or 42?

01:34:03.000 Older than you. 0.78

01:34:03.000 Something like that. 0.78

01:34:04.000 Barely.

01:34:05.000 I'll be what?

01:34:05.000 I'll be 40 when I'm sworn in as president.

01:34:08.000 Right around there.

01:34:09.000 Okay.

01:34:10.000 I like how you say when.

01:34:11.000 Exactly.

01:34:12.000 Confidence.

01:34:14.000 Look at Donald Trump, though.

01:34:16.000 Right.

01:34:16.000 So, what, he's in his mid-70s?

01:34:19.000 Right.

01:34:20.000 But his maturity is of an adolescent.

01:34:24.000 He's a comedian.

01:34:25.000 At best.

01:34:25.000 He should have been a comedian.

01:34:27.000 I'm telling you, the guy would have been killing it as a comic instead of a real estate developer.

01:34:31.000 He's got great timing.

01:34:33.000 Yeah.

01:34:34.000 That's true.

01:34:35.000 Yeah, he's very immature.

01:34:36.000 But my point is maturity, maturity matters.

01:34:38.000 Yes.

01:34:39.000 Experience matters.

01:34:41.000 And the experience that I bring is different from any other candidate who's running for president, serving as a soldier for 16 years, serving in Congress on these committees of importance and national security.

01:34:54.000 I've served the state legislature and the city council.

01:34:58.000 And look, when you look back, we talked about our founding fathers.

01:35:02.000 Most of them who crafted the Constitution and who wrote the Declaration of Independence were under the age of 40. Many under the age of 30. But people who lived to be like 40 back then.

01:35:13.000 Still.

01:35:14.000 Still.

01:35:15.000 We're talking about experience and maturity here.

01:35:17.000 I know you're defending yourself.

01:35:19.000 I fully support you.

01:35:21.000 I think you could be president at 38. I really do.

01:35:23.000 I don't think it's a problem.

01:35:24.000 And at 40, for sure.

01:35:25.000 You're going to be 24 years older or 24 months older.

01:35:28.000 You're going to be wiser.

01:35:30.000 You'll have it nailed.

01:35:31.000 But we do wonder, right, like when has a person had enough life experience?

01:35:39.000 But then again, the question is, what is that life experience?

01:35:42.000 Is it life experience, like you said, that leads you to be an immature 70-year-old?

01:35:46.000 Or is it the life experience of someone who's served in combat and has been in Congress for six years and someone who understands how this government works and has a better perspective of human beings?

01:35:57.000 Yeah, it is that experience and it's what you draw from it and the conclusions and the judgment and the kind of leadership that you would exercise.

01:36:06.000 There were a lot of folks in 2016 who said Hillary Clinton was the most experienced candidate ever to run for president because of the jobs she had held or the experience that she had had.

01:36:19.000 My problem was with her judgment and the kinds of decisions that she would make as commander-in-chief, decisions that would continue to send people like me and my brothers and sisters in uniform to continue to fight in these wasteful regime change wars that actually dishonor the oath that we all take when we volunteer to serve,

01:36:40.000 to serve to protect and defend our country and the American people.

01:36:43.000 And instead sending us on these missions that are counter to that promise, that undermine our national security, that undermine the great sacrifice that our troops and their families make.

01:36:55.000 So it's that judgment.

01:36:56.000 It's the experience and the judgment that I believe we need to look for in the next commander-in-chief.

01:37:02.000 It's what I bring to the table, and it's what I challenge voters to ask the other candidates and to hold them to account on both of those fronts.

01:37:10.000 Would they be ready?

01:37:12.000 To walk into that Oval Office on day one and to serve our country as commander in chief.

01:37:17.000 One of the messages that Trump was very successful in getting out was that he wanted to drain the swamp, that we all realize that there's just this tangled web of bureaucracy.

01:37:28.000 Yeah.

01:37:28.000 And that he did a good job of connecting Hillary to that bureaucracy and say, this woman is just completely entrenched in this world.

01:37:37.000 She's never going to get out.

01:37:38.000 She's not even a real person anymore.

01:37:40.000 She's just a professional politician and he would highlight all the different things that she did and lied and called her Crooked Hillary. 1.00

01:37:47.000 And that just got stuck.

01:37:49.000 What made him, one of the things that made him very attractive to people is that he seemed like a person.

01:37:55.000 Didn't seem like a politician.

01:37:56.000 He seemed like a person.

01:37:57.000 How do you avoid Communicating like a politician, when you're doing this in mass, when you're communicating with giant groups of people, when you're having these big speeches in these big places, how do you do it and still let people know you're just a person?

01:38:16.000 Because that's, I think, what people are longing for and what they don't see in many candidates.

01:38:21.000 You see this act, like, oh, he's pretty good at his act, but I see the act.

01:38:25.000 Yeah.

01:38:26.000 I don't see a person.

01:38:27.000 Yeah.

01:38:28.000 Being myself, speaking the truth, and standing up for what I believe in and why I'm offering to serve our country.

01:38:37.000 Really, there's no other way to do it because if I start like, okay, how am I going to convey myself as a real person?

01:38:43.000 The only way to do that is to actually be a real person and who's speaking truthfully and honestly and respecting The American people and the responsibility that I'm asking them to bestow upon me, that mission that I'm asking them to charge me with.

01:39:01.000 You've said you've always been drawn to service.

01:39:04.000 Does this seem like a calling to you?

01:39:08.000 What does this feel like to you, this idea that you are going to be the commander-in-chief of the greatest army the world has ever known, the leader of the free world, in a sense?

01:39:18.000 What does that seem like to you?

01:39:20.000 The grave responsibility that that job carries and the seriousness with which I would bring my experience and my judgment to fulfilling that job.

01:39:34.000 You know, this is, I think, one of the problems that we have too often in our politics is that people, self-serving politicians, are more interested in keeping their job or in getting the next job or, you know, in lining their pockets, getting ready for the,

01:39:49.000 you know, the afterlife or whatever when they leave their political office, that that somehow is important.

01:39:55.000 Is defining of who they are rather than recognizing that to be able to serve the people is a great honor and it's tremendous responsibility.

01:40:08.000 And that's how I approach serving in the local, the state level and at Congress.

01:40:14.000 And how I approach being able to serve the American people as president and commander-in-chief.

01:40:19.000 It is a grave responsibility.

01:40:20.000 And I will never forget for a single moment who I serve and who I work for.

01:40:28.000 What is your take on WikiLeaks and Julian Assange?

01:40:35.000 What happened with his arrest and all this stuff that just went down recently?

01:40:42.000 I think poses a great threat to our freedom of the press and to our freedom of speech.

01:40:49.000 We look at what happened under the previous administration under Obama.

01:40:54.000 You know, they were trying to find ways to go after Assange and WikiLeaks, but ultimately they chose not to seek to extradite him or charge him because they recognized what a slippery slope that begins When you have a government in a position to levy criminal charges and consequences against someone who's publishing information or saying things that the government doesn't want you to say,

01:41:23.000 sharing information that the government doesn't want you to share.

01:41:27.000 And so the fact that the Trump administration has chosen to ignore that fact, to ignore how important it is that we uphold our freedoms, freedom of the press and freedom of speech and go after him, it has a very chilling effect on both journalists and publishers.

01:41:45.000 And you can look to both those in the traditional media, but also those in new media.

01:41:50.000 And also on every one of us as American.

01:41:53.000 It was kind of a warning call saying, look what happened to this guy.

01:41:58.000 It could happen to you.

01:42:00.000 It could happen to any one of us.

01:42:01.000 Well, it's very transparent, too, because there's no real compelling crime for them to be going after him the way they are.

01:42:07.000 There's not one thing that stands out, and the latest one is hacking.

01:42:12.000 Well, it's not even hacking.

01:42:13.000 It's conspiracy.

01:42:14.000 Yeah.

01:42:16.000 It doesn't make any sense that they would spend that much time going after that guy for those charges.

01:42:20.000 It's obvious and very transparent that there's another ulterior motive.

01:42:24.000 That ulterior motive is that he leaked a bunch of things that were incredibly embarrassing.

01:42:28.000 That's right.

01:42:29.000 And not only that, but I think it was Secretary Pompeo, Secretary of State, who said that they wanted to designate WikiLeaks and Assange as a foreign intelligence agency.

01:42:43.000 So once you do that, then you're talking about a whole different category.

01:42:47.000 So they're pushing out information once again that the government didn't want pushed out.

01:42:52.000 And if the government then says, oh, well, now we're going to reclassify you as a foreign intelligence agency, then there's a whole different set of rules of engagement that apply there.

01:43:02.000 Then you're no longer protected under the freedoms that we hold dear, the freedom of the press.

01:43:08.000 It's just such a disgusting way of framing things.

01:43:11.000 Like, you know he's not a foreign intelligence agent.

01:43:14.000 He's a guy that got information and released it to the general public that the government wanted to keep private.

01:43:22.000 It's really that simple.

01:43:24.000 Edward Snowden.

01:43:27.000 Similar situation.

01:43:29.000 Similar situation.

01:43:30.000 I don't think we—I remember the very day that I woke up in D.C., looked at my phone, started looking through the headlines, and saw those headlines about how the NSA was mass surveilling all of us.

01:43:48.000 In collecting our phone records, collecting our cell phone records, Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, and I was shocked.

01:43:56.000 So that was something that Snowden uncovered and released, something that I don't know that even as members of Congress we would have been aware of.

01:44:05.000 So now that we were aware of it, then, hey, we can take action to close those loopholes, to change those policies, to protect our civil liberties, to protect our Fourth Amendment constitutional rights as Americans.

01:44:18.000 But was the NSA going to disclose that information voluntarily on their own?

01:44:23.000 Absolutely not.

01:44:24.000 Absolutely not.

01:44:24.000 No, we would have had no idea.

01:44:25.000 We would have had suspicions, but then again, we'd have tinfoil hats on.

01:44:29.000 And there was a gentleman who was...

01:44:32.000 Who left the NSA very early on.

01:44:35.000 Hill, was that his last name?

01:44:37.000 But he was one of the first ones to discuss this.

01:44:39.000 This was post 9-11 when they first started doing it.

01:44:42.000 But Snowden was the guy that really made it abundantly clear to everybody that not only are they doing that, but they're also lying about it.

01:44:50.000 And even Obama was talking, oh, we're just collecting metadata.

01:44:53.000 Yeah.

01:44:53.000 Metadata?

01:44:54.000 No, you're not.

01:44:55.000 You're reading messages.

01:44:57.000 You could do anything.

01:44:58.000 Exactly.

01:44:58.000 This is just not an accurate assessment of what was going on.

01:45:02.000 No.

01:45:02.000 And it was outrageous to people.

01:45:03.000 And you had, I think he was the director of the Department of National Intelligence at that time, James Clapper, who sat before a committee in the United States Senate and blatantly lied.

01:45:14.000 Yeah.

01:45:15.000 He was asked very directly, are you collecting this information?

01:45:18.000 And he said, no.

01:45:19.000 Yeah.

01:45:20.000 Are you collecting this information on American citizens?

01:45:23.000 And he said no.

01:45:24.000 And yet he's somebody who you see on TV almost every day as an expert in this country without any consequence lying to the American people.

01:45:33.000 And I think that if you polled the American people and you asked us to vote on it, I think it would be a gigantic landslide victory for Edward Snowden to be exonerated and brought back to the United States.

01:45:44.000 They've got this guy, he's in Russia now, hiding.

01:45:48.000 It's crazy that he lives over there and he can't leave, and if he does come over here, they're immediately going to lock him up.

01:45:53.000 What would you do as president?

01:45:56.000 One thing that I think, I want to answer your question, but one thing that I think speaks to the dangerous nature of this culture that we're living in now, the Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer had done an interview on,

01:46:11.000 I don't know, one of the major networks, and I think he was talking about Trump when he said, be careful, you don't want to challenge the intelligence agencies.

01:46:23.000 Basically putting out that threat.

01:46:25.000 I don't know if you can pull that exact quote up, but I was shocked when I heard him say that.

01:46:30.000 Because it basically makes out that these intelligence agencies are their own...

01:46:34.000 Separate branch of government and that if any one of us as Americans or elected leaders in this country dares to challenge or exercise oversight over them, then we will suffer the consequences.

01:46:47.000 So as president, I would change that culture of leadership.

01:46:51.000 That leadership starts at the top.

01:46:53.000 And when you have people in positions of leadership who continue to perpetuate that culture of unaccountability, of complete disrespect and disregard for the Constitution, of not understanding that yes, we need to keep our country safe,

01:47:10.000 We also need to protect our constitutional rights.

01:47:13.000 This is not a choice between the two which is so often how it's framed.

01:47:17.000 Well, if you want to protect us against terrorists, you've got to give up all of your rights as Americans and your civil liberties and your privacies and just let these intelligence agencies run free and run roughshod over us.

01:47:29.000 And so that's the kind of change in leadership that I'll bring.

01:48:06.000 Did you ever listen to that Kennedy speech about secret societies?

01:48:12.000 Kennedy had a fantastic speech before he was assassinated where he was discussing this very thing, and he apparently had notions of disbanding the CIA, and he was very concerned with the power of people like J. Edgar Hoover.

01:48:31.000 Of course.

01:48:32.000 And that this was all happening while he was president, and he felt like there were people that were involved in these secret societies and these secret Meetings and that there was a lot of conspiracy going on and he thought the very idea was repugnant.

01:48:46.000 It's a fantastic speech.

01:48:47.000 It's called The President and the Press is what it's like.

01:48:50.000 It's got a title.

01:48:50.000 It's a fantastic speech.

01:48:52.000 I'll check it out.

01:48:53.000 But this has always been the real concern that people have that when you give someone the ability to surveil the general population, they're going to use some of that information to aid in their allies and to work against their enemies.

01:49:11.000 Yeah.

01:49:11.000 That is, I mean, it's a valid concern.

01:49:13.000 Yes.

01:49:14.000 And I mean, this is what, unfortunately, we've already seen.

01:49:16.000 This is what has been revealed by some of that information that was released by Snowden.

01:49:22.000 And how, for example, the FISA court, as we have it now, is a secret court that has been abused for that purpose, allowing for that surveillance of Americans, violating our civil liberties and privacies.

01:49:37.000 Yeah.

01:49:37.000 And that's something that we've got to fix, that whole FISA court from top to bottom and how the different judges are appointed.

01:49:44.000 Can you explain that to people?

01:49:45.000 It's basically a secret court that was appointed, I believe, or created back in the 70s with the initial objective of providing oversight over the executive branch mass surveillance that was happening at that time or illegal surveillance that was happening at that time.

01:50:07.000 Unfortunately, especially since 9-11, now you have this FISA court that is both used to approve surveillance and surveillance programs on foreign targets, but also on Americans as well.

01:50:30.000 I think?

01:50:45.000 There is no advocate there for the people.

01:50:49.000 There is no civil liberties or privacy advocate there.

01:50:52.000 It's a one-sided conversation.

01:50:56.000 And the information being provided by the government is the only information that's being given to the judge.

01:51:02.000 So this is one of the big problems there.

01:51:05.000 And we've seen over decades now, and especially since after 9-11, that there have been very, very, very few We're good to go.

01:51:41.000 To exercise oversight over the executive branch and not allow them to conduct this surveillance, you know, willy-nilly, as they please.

01:51:52.000 So it's figuring out exactly what are the best reforms to meet that objective of providing that oversight, making it so that those warrants are given, you know, as needed and making sure that all the information is being presented.

01:52:08.000 And again, that FISA court was initially put in place to get warrants to conduct surveillance on foreign targets, not Americans.

01:52:18.000 And that's been one of the biggest problems here with a lot of this mass surveillance is it's collecting our information as Americans illegally and unconstitutionally because you can't do that unless you go through this process and you actually get a warrant based on evidence.

01:52:34.000 What would you do about Julian Assange?

01:52:36.000 What would you do about Edward Snowden?

01:52:39.000 As far as undoing, dropping the charges?

01:52:42.000 If you're president of the world right now, what do you do?

01:52:44.000 Yeah, dropping the charges.

01:52:45.000 You drop the charges, but they're still going after him for something from Sweden in Julian Assange's case.

01:52:52.000 And so Edward Snowden would be the only one that you would be able to, right?

01:52:55.000 Because unless you would influence...

01:52:57.000 Well, the charges that the Trump administration is...

01:53:00.000 Putting on Julian Assange.

01:53:02.000 Right, exactly.

01:53:03.000 And it remains to be seen whether or not they will push for extradition.

01:53:06.000 There's another charge that I think was today.

01:53:09.000 Sweden decided to go after him again for some sexual thing that they had decided to go after many, many years ago.

01:53:20.000 Edward Snowden...

01:53:23.000 What he's doing right now is essentially living day-to-day, holed up in Russia, in hiding.

01:53:29.000 And the charges against him stem from, again, this illegal operation.

01:53:37.000 In many ways, he's very patriotic.

01:53:39.000 I mean, he let us know.

01:53:40.000 And at great cost.

01:53:42.000 Yeah.

01:53:43.000 So you would give him a pardon?

01:53:45.000 Yeah.

01:53:45.000 And I think we've got to address why he did the things the way that he did them.

01:53:52.000 And you hear the same thing from Chelsea Manning, how there is not an actual channel for whistleblowers like them to bring forward information that exposes egregious abuses of our constitutional rights and liberties Period.

01:54:11.000 I mean, there was not a channel for that to happen in a real way, and that's why they ended up taking the path that they did and suffering the consequences.

01:54:19.000 There's a great Bill Hicks bit about what happens when you become president, that they bring you in a room filled with smoke, cigar smoke, and these industrialists, and they play a video of the Kennedy assassination from an angle you never saw before.

01:54:33.000 Wow.

01:54:33.000 And they say, any questions?

01:54:35.000 And he had this bit, and I thought about this bit when I thought about Obama, because Obama, when he had his Hope and Change website when he was running for president, one of the things they addressed is whistleblowers and how much they would provide a platform for whistleblowers to expose illegal activity.

01:54:52.000 That was still on his website while he was president and while Julian Assange was getting arrested and while all this was going down.

01:55:03.000 And they wound up taking it down off of the website once somebody pointed it out.

01:55:07.000 Like, hey, you had this...

01:55:08.000 What happens when you become president?

01:55:12.000 What do you think happens?

01:55:14.000 And why do these... 1.00

01:55:15.000 Do you think that they're full of shit and they're just saying what we want to hear so they can get elected? 1.00

01:55:20.000 Or do you think that there is something that happens to them once they get into office? 1.00

01:55:25.000 Do you think that it's possible that...

01:55:28.000 They're given information that shows the real threats that the world has.

01:55:33.000 And there's things that the general public is just not privy to, and these are what influences people's decisions to go against all the things that they were saying when they were running for president.

01:55:46.000 Look, I haven't been with them and been in those rooms, so I won't speak for that which I do not know.

01:55:54.000 But what I do know is this is what happens when you have people who are elected to serve in this job as president, whose most important responsibility is commander in chief.

01:56:08.000 And they lack the experience and the understanding to be able to make the right kinds of decisions that serve the American people and end up, even those going in with the best of intentions, end up being very influenced,

01:56:25.000 whether it be by the military industrial complex or the foreign policy establishment, That as we've seen over decades has crossed both political parties.

01:56:35.000 Both political parties in these areas often end up making the very same decisions about continuing these wasteful regime change wars and acting as the world's police and therefore listening to them because they lack that experience or that backbone and understanding themselves and then just continue the status quo. 0.91

01:56:57.000 You know, Trump was somebody who during his campaign talked a lot about ending the stupid wars, talked about going after Saudi Arabia, that they're the biggest supporters of terrorism in the world. 0.86

01:57:08.000 And, you know, what happened now? 0.99

01:57:10.000 You know, in his administration, what he called draining the swamp, he's turned that swamp into a cesspool.

01:57:17.000 You look at the people he surrounded himself with.

01:57:20.000 Some of the biggest war hawks that our country has seen, guys like John Bolton, people like Mike Pompeo, people who've wanted to go to war against Iran for a very long time, people who have been cozy with Saudi Arabia for a very long time.

01:57:33.000 You see who he's nominating to be Secretary of Defense, longtime defense contract career man, like over 30 years I think working for Boeing.

01:57:44.000 You see the kinds of people who he surrounded himself by.

01:57:48.000 And so it doesn't take a lot to figure out how he has been influenced by them in continuing these regime change wars.

01:57:57.000 This regime change is still going on in Syria now, threatening regime change in Venezuela, threatening regime change and disruption in Iran.

01:58:05.000 And that's the difference.

01:58:06.000 That's the difference.

01:58:08.000 Quite bluntly, between me and other people who are running for president is that experience and understanding that I bring to be able to walk into that office, to do that job as commander-in-chief on day one, and to not succumb to the establishment that I have both felt the effects of as a soldier as well as seen in action as a member of Congress.

01:58:32.000 I'm going in with both eyes wide open and understanding the situation as it really exists, and most importantly, understanding who I work for, that I work for the American people.

01:58:43.000 Do you think when someone like Trump radically shifts his position, he's doing so because he's been influenced to change his position, because he's been given more information, or do you think they become compromised when they're in office and they, I scratch your back, you scratch mine?

01:58:59.000 I don't know.

01:59:00.000 I imagine that there's probably some of both.

01:59:04.000 But if you don't have the strength of your convictions and your understanding about what kinds of policies actually best serve the American people, then you can see how easily you'd be swayed and influenced by others.

01:59:18.000 You saw Trump's rhetoric on the campaign trail about Saudi Arabia, against Saudi Arabia, against United States support for Saudi Arabia, calling them out for what they are.

01:59:26.000 And now refusing to end U.S. military support for this genocidal war in Yemen that Saudi Arabia is waging that's created the worst humanitarian crisis of our generation because, he says,

01:59:42.000 well, he doesn't want to risk a multibillion-dollar arms deal with Saudi Arabia.

01:59:49.000 So, you know, you can see, at least in that respect, what he's really motivated by.

01:59:55.000 That he doesn't, he would rather continue to support the senseless and devastating deaths of innocent people in Yemen and using our U.S. military, my brothers and sisters in the military, to do that because he doesn't want to risk an arms deal with Saudi Arabia, 0.55

02:00:12.000 a theocratic dictatorship that actually directly supports terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda.

02:00:17.000 Oof.

02:00:18.000 It's hard for people to imagine that that's the case, that it's an arms deal and they want to make sure that this deal goes through and that it continues to be financially productive for both nations.

02:00:32.000 Well, this is Trump's argument.

02:00:34.000 He's like, well, you know, that's American jobs, building those weapons that we're selling to Saudi Arabia.

02:00:40.000 That's what's at risk.

02:00:42.000 My challenge to him and to the American people is if the best our president can do to help support the creation of jobs in this country is to build weapons that are being dropped on innocent people in countries like Yemen, then we need a new president.

02:00:58.000 We need a new commander in chief that will actually help serve the best interests of our people and work towards the interests of peace, peace here at home and peace abroad.

02:01:09.000 Yeah, the idea that it's just jobs.

02:01:11.000 It's not just jobs.

02:01:13.000 I mean, there's consequences to these jobs.

02:01:18.000 You were talking about universal basic income earlier, and you were saying it in regards to dealing with impoverished communities.

02:01:25.000 But one of the big issues that people think we're going to need universal basic income for is automation, something that Andrew Yang has built his whole platform on.

02:01:35.000 Elon Musk has talked extensively about it.

02:01:38.000 We are in a situation where there was an article today about Amazon using these I forget exactly how they described it, but essentially robots that are packaging things and automation is going to start taking over many non-skilled jobs.

02:01:56.000 And this is true with the travel industry, with trucking, with moving things, shipping.

02:02:03.000 That we are going to see less and less of these unskilled jobs and we're going to see millions of people out of work and that universal basic income may be the only way to bridge that gap between them finding some sort of viable new source of income.

02:02:19.000 Yeah, I think that's certainly part of it.

02:02:21.000 I mean, it's a strong argument.

02:02:25.000 We've got to figure out how we pay for it and how it actually achieves that intended objective.

02:02:31.000 But also look at...

02:02:35.000 Making those kinds of investments in how do you train a whole new workforce and in what new areas.

02:02:41.000 So you're taking people who are working in really tough labor jobs.

02:02:46.000 You hear all these stories about people who are working at Amazon, very long hours, very stringent timelines.

02:02:53.000 And so if they're now being replaced by automation or robots or whatever it is, let's look at our economy and see how we can help train folks for jobs that pay more money and hopefully help offer a better quality of life.

02:03:11.000 And I think that's overall when we look at this, I think that's the way that we should be addressing this, is not just a job is a job is a job is a job, but really looking at the quality of life of people in this country.

02:03:26.000 That a job does not equal happiness or fulfillment.

02:03:31.000 But really looking at parents who have a child and who want to be able to spend some time at home raising that child or someone who wants to start a small business and work out of their home to be able to hang out with their kids more or whatever the case may be.

02:03:47.000 I think as we look at this and how we make this transition in a positive way in this country, we've got to look at it from this comprehensive approach.

02:03:58.000 Yeah, the idea of these people that are working in these fulfillment centers being happy seems pretty ridiculous.

02:04:06.000 They're not happy they have those jobs.

02:04:08.000 Those people are in back-breaking, incredibly stressful positions where if you read the reports, I mean, I don't know how accurate they're reports of what the job is like, but they literally run from one place to another.

02:04:20.000 They're timed.

02:04:21.000 Yeah.

02:04:21.000 Bathroom breaks or time limits.

02:04:24.000 Yeah.

02:04:29.000 The idea that companies are supposed to constantly make more and more money.

02:04:34.000 As you get ruthlessly competitive people looking at the bottom line, every single aspect of that business, and one of the things that suffers is human satisfaction.

02:04:45.000 Their sacrifice has to be greater because they have to find a way to justify their position in the company.

02:04:53.000 And so they get paid very little, they work very hard, and now they're getting replaced by robots.

02:04:57.000 And meanwhile, with a company like Amazon, not only paying no taxes, I think this is for the third year in a row, and also getting, I think this last year was over $125 million tax credit.

02:05:10.000 That sounds hilarious.

02:05:11.000 Jeff Bezos says, how much?

02:05:13.000 He's got $150 billion and he's going to give $75 billion to his wife. 0.94

02:05:16.000 The whole thing is ridiculous.

02:05:19.000 And it's what people who lean socialist point to when they talk about unchecked capitalism without any sort of regulation that can stop something like that from happening and stop workers from being exploited in that way.

02:05:34.000 And people say, hey, you don't have to have that job.

02:05:37.000 If you don't want that job, don't take it.

02:05:39.000 But no one should have to have that job.

02:05:41.000 How about that?

02:05:42.000 How about, if there's a job that makes you have timed bathroom breaks and run from one place to another, you should get paid a fuckload of money for that job. 0.98

02:05:51.000 That job should be something that, it sucks all day long, but dude, I make $5,000 a week.

02:05:58.000 And people are like, what?

02:05:59.000 Yeah, man.

02:06:00.000 Eight hours a day, five thousand, you gotta run.

02:06:02.000 But when, at the end of the, look, you save up your money, man.

02:06:05.000 You're making a lot of money that way.

02:06:06.000 People would go, oh, okay.

02:06:08.000 Amazon would still make a shitload of money if they did it that way.

02:06:13.000 Those are people barely making minimum wage.

02:06:16.000 It's crazy!

02:06:18.000 So that's where I think this automation really changing our economy is something that I think we're behind the curveball on because it's already happening.

02:06:30.000 But let's try to see the opportunity in that, where if robots are going to start taking over those back-breaking jobs, then let's try to find new and innovative ways for people to work and to earn a living that's actually bringing value to them.

02:06:48.000 That sounds awesome on paper, but how would one ever do that?

02:06:51.000 That's what we've got to work out.

02:06:52.000 And I'm not saying, hey, there's a government solution to this and snap your fingers and it's all done.

02:06:58.000 No, I mean, government has a role, a private sector, private business has a role, and we've got to work together because this is all of our futures, ultimately.

02:07:07.000 Have you imagined any possibility, any potential solution?

02:07:14.000 Well, I think there's pieces of it, right?

02:07:17.000 I mean, it's making sure that we close these tax loopholes that allow companies like Amazon to get away with paying no taxes and to get this much money back as a tax credit.

02:07:29.000 What is that loophole?

02:07:29.000 How do they do that?

02:07:30.000 Oh, gosh.

02:07:31.000 I mean, our tax code is so complicated.

02:07:33.000 It has to do with the write-offs and how many years and depreciation and all of these different things that they plan for and they exploit in order to pay no taxes and to get money back in return.

02:07:45.000 It's just so weaselly.

02:07:46.000 It is.

02:07:47.000 And it's this crony capitalism that's really at the heart of this problem.

02:07:52.000 How do they get that kind of sweet deal when you look at the tax code that's written?

02:07:57.000 We look at the tax bills that are passed.

02:07:59.000 Who are the people who are helping influence and write those bills? 0.78

02:08:02.000 They're the big paid lobbyists that Amazon has in Washington who are saying, hey, this is something that we want to see in there.

02:08:08.000 And working with lawmakers who they're cozy with to get that legislation in there.

02:08:12.000 Well, this is one of the things that has come out about Trump over the last week or two, is that he lost a billion dollars over the course of X amount of years.

02:08:23.000 And that this is not really accurate.

02:08:27.000 But that this is how he said...

02:08:31.000 Didn't he say that it was for tax purposes?

02:08:34.000 He basically did.

02:08:34.000 He basically said it's sport, is what he said.

02:08:36.000 His description was that it's sport.

02:08:39.000 Wow.

02:08:39.000 So essentially, he was playing within the rules.

02:08:42.000 No one's accusing him of doing anything illegal.

02:08:44.000 But the way he framed his taxes, the way he...

02:08:49.000 It turned out to be more than a billion dollars worth of losses over a period of something like a decade.

02:08:54.000 Yeah.

02:08:55.000 And people are like, what the hell is that?

02:08:58.000 And he's like, look, that's what I was trying to tell you.

02:09:00.000 He was basically trying to say, look, this is something that I was telling you people about when I was running for president, that the system is rigged.

02:09:07.000 I know because it was a part of the rigged system, and I paid these people off.

02:09:11.000 Yeah.

02:09:12.000 It is rigged.

02:09:13.000 But how could you get in without getting assassinated?

02:09:17.000 How do you get in and say, hey, all you billionaires that are making all this money, you're going to make less money now because of Tulsi.

02:09:25.000 President Tulsi is coming in.

02:09:27.000 There's a new sheriff in town.

02:09:29.000 Yeah.

02:09:30.000 Sheriff with an army of people in this country mobilizing, saying this government was put in place to serve us, to serve the people.

02:09:40.000 And as much money and high-paid lobbyists as these guys have, ultimately it is the people of this country who cast the votes and it is ultimately the people in this country who have the power if we choose to use it, if we choose to make sure that our voices are heard.

02:09:53.000 And that is the way that we make this change.

02:09:56.000 Would you have to simplify the tax code?

02:09:58.000 Would you have to make things heavily?

02:10:26.000 Because it's these corporations are influencing how our tax laws are written, and it's written to benefit them, the ultra-rich and the 1%, and people who are working very hard every single day are struggling.

02:10:39.000 They're still struggling just to get by.

02:10:41.000 What kind of dirty tricks do you think they will pull out against you if you try to fix the tax code and try to make corporations accountable and make sure that they have to pay?

02:10:51.000 If they're coming after you now and you're just making waves and getting ready for 2020, it could be pretty gross.

02:11:01.000 Yeah.

02:11:01.000 But I don't underestimate the power of people.

02:11:05.000 That's what I tell them.

02:11:06.000 And they've been playing these dirty tricks for a long time.

02:11:09.000 There is more and more people, I think, in this country who are paying attention and who are calling them out on it.

02:11:17.000 Don't underestimate the power of the people.

02:11:19.000 You know what I think, too?

02:11:20.000 I think it would be better for them. 0.99

02:11:22.000 Jeff Bezos, you know you're fucking people over not paying taxes, bro. 0.99

02:11:26.000 You have so much money! 0.99

02:11:29.000 And I'm sure he pays taxes.

02:11:31.000 I don't know what he pays.

02:11:32.000 But the idea that Amazon's figured out how to weasel that out, that's I mean, you hear stuff like Warren Buffett talks about this, about he pays a lower tax rate than his secretary.

02:11:44.000 It's the famous line.

02:11:45.000 How is that?

02:11:47.000 Because he has, look, he's figured out all of these holes within the tax system that he can benefit from to pay lower taxes when most people don't have that ability.

02:11:56.000 And as a business person who's also fairly ethical, you have to be perplexed.

02:12:01.000 Like, what do I do here?

02:12:02.000 Do I just do the right thing and give more money to charity and balance it out?

02:12:08.000 Or do I just take these cuts where they are and let everybody know, hey...

02:12:13.000 Look how much money I pay.

02:12:15.000 It's not a lot.

02:12:15.000 This is how broken the system is.

02:12:17.000 This shit's whack. 0.99

02:12:19.000 Ultimately, what you're saying, as business owners, whether it's small business owners or these large corporations, I mean, look, it is these large multinational corporations that are exploiting the system and exploiting the people and represent the worst of these crony capitalist policies. 0.99

02:12:37.000 And so when I talk about changing this culture of leadership at the top, it's bringing...

02:12:43.000 These values of service above self.

02:12:45.000 This has to happen within our government, but we as a society need to encourage ourselves bringing these values of service above self to our businesses, to every sector of our community.

02:12:58.000 Because just because you run a business and you make a profit doesn't mean that you can't be a servant leader.

02:13:04.000 And to think about, hey, how can I make a positive impact?

02:13:06.000 Yes, for my employees and for their families, but on society, on our community, on our environment.

02:13:12.000 And I think for the people that are running these corporations, there would be real value in appreciating the fact that we're all in this together.

02:13:24.000 Yeah.

02:13:24.000 And you're not going to live that long.

02:13:25.000 You just don't have that much time.

02:13:27.000 Nobody does.

02:13:28.000 No one does.

02:13:28.000 You've got 100 years if you're lucky.

02:13:29.000 And you probably, if you're running a corporation, you're probably on death's door.

02:13:33.000 And you've got kids.

02:13:34.000 Who have kids.

02:13:36.000 Generations who will live with the repercussions of the decisions that are being made.

02:13:39.000 And the argument...

02:13:40.000 Is that if you force them to pay more taxes, then there's going to be less jobs because they're going to have to make cuts. 0.71

02:13:46.000 But that seems like a ridiculous argument to me.

02:13:50.000 It's the same one that's been made all along. 0.95

02:13:51.000 It's just you're used to it.

02:13:53.000 That's all it is.

02:13:54.000 You're used to these loopholes.

02:13:56.000 You're used to it, so you want to keep them there.

02:13:57.000 And if they take away those loopholes, you're going to punish other people because you don't want to be punished yourself financially.

02:14:03.000 That's what's really going on.

02:14:05.000 And this is coming from me, who's a financial dummy.

02:14:08.000 I don't spend any time Analyzing the financial situation in this world.

02:14:14.000 Yeah.

02:14:15.000 But I can see that.

02:14:16.000 Yeah.

02:14:16.000 That's pretty obvious.

02:14:17.000 No, it's glaringly clear.

02:14:18.000 And the impact that it's having on people is also glaringly clear.

02:14:21.000 People are seeing this.

02:14:23.000 And when automation really kicks into focus in, you know, however X many years, when millions and millions of jobs go away, we're going to be confronted with this new world.

02:14:34.000 And this is what a lot of people are very concerned with when they talk about the next couple of decades.

02:14:39.000 Yeah.

02:14:39.000 They're very concerned with automation and they're very concerned with artificial intelligence.

02:14:46.000 Artificial intelligence and that it's not just going to take away skilled or unskilled labor, but it's also going to take skilled labor away.

02:14:54.000 There's going to be no one answering phones anymore.

02:14:56.000 It's all going to be computers.

02:14:57.000 They're very close to being able to do that right now, where a computer will have a legitimate conversation with you and you don't even know that you're talking to a computer.

02:15:05.000 It's crazy.

02:15:06.000 It's crazy.

02:15:07.000 Are you concerned with sentient artificial intelligence in terms of its military applications, in terms of there's a lot of concern that what we're experiencing now, particularly when you talk about Yemen,

02:15:24.000 with drones...

02:15:34.000 I'm very concerned about artificial intelligence and how quickly this technology is evolving.

02:15:42.000 With very little oversight or even understanding at the highest levels of our government about both what the opportunities are that it presents and also the very real dangers of this technology being weaponized and how quickly that could spiral out of control.

02:16:05.000 What could we do to stop artificial intelligence from spiraling out of control?

02:16:12.000 In particular, what could we do to stop autonomous weapons?

02:16:17.000 What a lot of people are really concerned with.

02:16:19.000 Did you watch that show Black Mirror?

02:16:20.000 Mm-mm.

02:16:21.000 Yeah.

02:16:31.000 Yeah.

02:16:40.000 If we don't do it first, we could have a situation where our soldiers are in some sort of a situation facing off against robots.

02:16:47.000 It sounds like a science fiction movie, but it's not that far away from reality.

02:16:52.000 I think this is one of those things that leaders in the global community have to recognize that just like with the nuclear arms race, Once you start on this race, there are no winners in a nuclear war.

02:17:08.000 Everybody loses in that scenario.

02:17:11.000 And I think there's a similar approach that needs to be taken to the dangers of artificial intelligence being weaponized and coming together as a global community to say, hey, this is something that...

02:17:26.000 I think?

02:17:47.000 Then is that creating a situation where our national security is at risk or our troops are at risk?

02:17:53.000 I think it's one of those things that, you know, this world is a small place and we would have a shared interest with leaders of other countries in the world to provide the right kinds of checks and balances on this technology so that it doesn't become something that's a danger to humanity.

02:18:12.000 And the real fear would be that someone would not think that at all. 0.98

02:18:16.000 That there would be whatever country, figure out what the country is, that some country would be like, fuck you, we're going to do whatever we want. 0.99

02:18:22.000 Look, you guys took over this world because of nuclear power. 1.00

02:18:25.000 We're going to take over this world because of autonomous weapons and artificial intelligence. 0.99

02:18:28.000 And we're going to design it to go kill Americans. 0.99

02:18:31.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:18:31.000 I think that's why it's important that we take a global approach to this. 0.99

02:18:37.000 Because otherwise, I think you do.

02:18:39.000 You end up with that scenario where this race begins and then there's no way to stop it and it's too late.

02:18:47.000 Unlike China, the United States has at least... 0.97

02:18:51.000 In perception, a clear differentiation between business and government.

02:18:58.000 And one of the concerns that when I've talked to experts in China and their electronics and their technological innovation is that they're inexorably connected to their government in some way, shape, or form.

02:19:13.000 And that it's one of the main reasons that makes it incredibly difficult to compete with them on a global marketplace.

02:19:19.000 Yeah.

02:19:19.000 When you see that our State Department has told people to stop using Huawei devices because Huawei, which is the number two provider of cell phones in this world now, they're connected to the Chinese government.

02:19:33.000 How do you take that?

02:19:35.000 What do you do about that situation?

02:19:38.000 That relationship between the private sector and government here.

02:19:41.000 In particular with...

02:19:43.000 The competition, when it comes to data, we're very concerned about people sharing data.

02:19:49.000 We've done it ourselves.

02:19:50.000 We've spied on it.

02:19:51.000 We've proven through the Edward Snowden case.

02:19:53.000 Our government's doing it as well to us.

02:19:55.000 We're worried the Chinese are doing it to us. 1.00

02:19:58.000 We're saying, don't buy Chinese stuff.

02:19:59.000 They're going to steal your data and steal your information and steal your business secrets.

02:20:04.000 What can you do to stop that?

02:20:06.000 What can you do to mitigate what's already happened?

02:20:09.000 You know, ultimately, you can't stop every single individual with what they're purchasing.

02:20:14.000 I think that, you know, you can regulate what is sold here in the United States.

02:20:21.000 I think there's a role that government can play, especially as we're talking about artificial intelligence and that kind of technology.

02:20:27.000 Again, first in understanding it, and then playing, being that responsible party.

02:20:34.000 To make sure that what is being developed is not something that's going to result in these unintended negative consequences.

02:20:44.000 So obviously our government doesn't have ownership over private business in this country, but we still do have sensible regulations and responsibility that government has to play in regulating what businesses can and can't do.

02:21:00.000 What's interesting to me is this competition aspect between dealing with essentially just the private sector here in America versus the private sector in China that's combined inexorably with the military and that they have much more influence over what gets done and how things get done.

02:21:20.000 Did you pay attention at all to the State Department's call for a boycott of Huawei products?

02:21:26.000 What did you think about that?

02:21:28.000 Well, I understood it.

02:21:29.000 You know, I think there is a concern about that technology being used to get our information.

02:21:37.000 You know, so that can be enforced within the federal government, right?

02:21:43.000 So if the State Department is saying, hey, the federal government is not going to purchase any Huawei-produced products or cell phones or whatever the technology is and encourage other people in the private sector to do the same.

02:21:56.000 What people are worried about over here is that what they're trying to do is stifle the development of this gigantic company.

02:22:03.000 Of Huawei.

02:22:05.000 Yeah, of Huawei.

02:22:05.000 Because Huawei went from having a tiny share of the marketplace about five years ago to being the number two cell phone provider in the world next to Samsung who just surpassed Apple.

02:22:16.000 And that this is a Chinese company and that because this Chinese company is connected to the Chinese government, the worry is that they're making ungodly sums of money and it's enhancing the Chinese government's ability to perform surveillance or just to just compete, just financially compete on a global scale.

02:22:33.000 And tech nerds seem to be siding with Huawei, which is interesting to me.

02:22:38.000 I've read a lot of tech blogs from people that are experts, and they say that there's no evidence that these cell phones have anything in them or doing anything, but that there has been some evidence of network devices.

02:22:50.000 And some of these network devices do have some sort of a third-party input or some ability to extract information that shouldn't be there.

02:22:59.000 That's interesting.

02:23:02.000 It's like when you're dealing with a situation where you're competing with a country that also controls these companies that are the biggest cell phone and electronics providers on the planet.

02:23:14.000 How do you handle that?

02:23:16.000 What is diplomacy with China like?

02:23:18.000 I think?

02:23:26.000 I think?

02:23:35.000 A friend of mine is a small business owner, and he saw the news this morning about China retaliating with Trump's escalation, I think with another increase of their tariffs, and how he's thinking like, my gosh, that's going to impact my small business.

02:23:51.000 I've got, I don't know, probably less than 15 employees and trying to figure out how it's going to impact the pricing and production, manufacturing and everything, every step of the way.

02:24:00.000 What's so dangerous about what Trump is doing with this trade war that he's escalating is that these trade and economic wars can very easily turn into a hot war.

02:24:14.000 And we're talking about a nuclear-armed country in China.

02:24:19.000 So while there are trade differences and issues that we've got to address with China and issues with intellectual property and other things, the way that Trump is going about this, I believe, is very irresponsible and dangerous, creating a huge amount of uncertainty for American businesses while increasing tensions with one of the biggest nuclear powers in the world.

02:24:43.000 That's a scary thought.

02:24:45.000 It is.

02:24:46.000 Do you really think that it's possible that that could lead to a nuclear war, that this trade war could lead to something military?

02:24:51.000 Yes.

02:24:53.000 Yes.

02:24:53.000 What is Trump's argument?

02:24:55.000 His argument essentially is that China has been treating us unfairly and that the rates that we're getting, they're not even.

02:25:03.000 Yeah.

02:25:03.000 I mean, Trump is recognizing a problem that exists.

02:25:06.000 That trade imbalance with China is a real issue.

02:25:09.000 Why does that trade imbalance exist?

02:25:11.000 Well, I mean, you can point to probably a whole host of issues in trade policy.

02:25:17.000 I don't think it's any one single incident.

02:25:21.000 That has created that imbalance and that, you know, I'm in Iowa a lot these days and a lot of farmers have been struggling with that and would like to see it fixed a lot in the tech community, would like to see these issues fixed, especially related to intellectual property.

02:25:37.000 But the way in which Trump is doing it is having a very negative effect on On these American businesses and jobs that Trump is supposedly advocating for, both really in the uncertainty that is being set,

02:25:53.000 where it looks like they're on the brink of a deal.

02:25:56.000 Just the other day, it looks like, hey, okay, the United States and China, they've been working through these issues.

02:26:00.000 They're on the brink of a deal.

02:26:02.000 And all of a sudden, Trump sends out a tweet saying, nope, we're going to increase these tariffs from 10% to 25%.

02:26:08.000 And now China is left like, okay, I thought we were close to working things out, and now left in a situation where they have no other recourse but to retaliate, as they did this morning.

02:26:21.000 So you can see quickly how this thing is spiraling so out of control and increasing these tensions between our two countries, not being done in a way...

02:26:30.000 That, to me, is strategic, providing us with the certainty of that path forward to reach a specific objective of correcting this trade imbalance, which is how this whole thing began.

02:26:41.000 Why do you think he's doing that?

02:26:42.000 Why would he make a tweet like that?

02:26:45.000 It's hard to explain, because it doesn't make sense.

02:26:47.000 It doesn't actually serve us and our economic interests of meeting that objective.

02:26:53.000 I don't know if he thinks this is part of his masterful negotiation skills, but it's got a very dangerous effect.

02:27:00.000 And the fact that we have nuclear strategists in this country who remind us that we are at a greater risk of nuclear war now than ever before, it's because of these kinds of things that are increasing tensions globally.

02:27:16.000 We're good to go.

02:27:40.000 And you really think that this could be set off by these financial negotiations and by Trump saying something like that and just changing his offer in a tweet?

02:27:49.000 If you threaten a country's economy and their economic security, where does that logically lead?

02:27:57.000 You threaten their ability to provide for their people.

02:28:01.000 You threaten their ability to provide that stable environment, which China, so much of what they do is just like, hey, they look for that What other recourse is there other than the threat of military force? 0.96

02:28:15.000 And in this case, when you're dealing with two nuclear-armed countries, this is what's at risk.

02:28:21.000 And it's something, you know, it's hard for a lot of people to conceive of, like, okay, my gosh, nuclear war?

02:28:26.000 Really?

02:28:26.000 I mean, this is something that...

02:28:28.000 Back during the Cold War with the kids going under their desk, these drills, and, okay, where do you go?

02:28:36.000 Find a bunker.

02:28:38.000 But this is something that's a reality that we're facing today.

02:28:42.000 And it's something that we in Hawaii in January of last year went through with that missile alert.

02:28:48.000 Yeah, that was crazy.

02:28:50.000 It was terrifying.

02:28:51.000 A fake missile alert, nuclear weapons on its way.

02:28:54.000 Right.

02:28:55.000 Missile inbound towards Hawaii.

02:28:57.000 Seek immediate shelter.

02:28:59.000 This is not a drill.

02:29:00.000 That was the message that was blasted out to over a million phones all across our state, on the radio, scrolling across the television, and people immediately, like, seek immediate shelter.

02:29:11.000 Okay, where do I go?

02:29:12.000 Where do I take my kids? 0.90

02:29:13.000 Where do I take my family?

02:29:14.000 Right.

02:29:15.000 We had college kids sprinting across campus at the University of Hawaii trying to find shelter.

02:29:19.000 He said, seek immediate shelter.

02:29:20.000 But the sick insanity of all of this is that there is no shelter.

02:29:29.000 There is no shelter.

02:29:31.000 Anywhere.

02:29:31.000 There are no nuclear bunkers, which really, I mean, and for people in this administration and politicians who are ratcheting up these tensions with these nuclear-armed countries, bringing us to this new Cold War...

02:29:43.000 They are not saying, okay, well, because we're doing this, we're going to invest not just trillions, but hundreds or thousands of trillions of dollars to make sure that every single American in this country has a nuclear bunker within 10 minutes of their home or their place of work or their school,

02:30:00.000 because that's how much time we'd have.

02:30:02.000 That's what we would need in order to deal with the consequences of the decisions that they're making and the failed leadership that they're providing.

02:30:11.000 And so this is an issue that I'm raising awareness about because of what's at risk.

02:30:17.000 I mean, this is the greatest threat that we face, and it requires strong leadership to walk us away from this brink of nuclear war, to be able to work with other countries based on cooperation rather than conflict,

02:30:32.000 de-escalate these tensions, work out our differences, And walk us back from the brink.

02:30:40.000 Stop this nuclear arms race that's making us and the world less safe.

02:30:44.000 The last thing I wanted to ask you about was the opioid crisis.

02:30:47.000 Yes.

02:30:48.000 And what are your thoughts on it?

02:30:50.000 This is an epidemic that is continuing to ravage the country.

02:30:54.000 And we are not doing enough.

02:30:58.000 Our government is not doing enough right now to solve it.

02:31:03.000 And I point to one very simple thing that could drastically help those who are dealing with opioid addiction and trying to walk down that path towards recovery, and that is ending the federal prohibition on marijuana.

02:31:18.000 There has been a correlation in states that have legalized either Medical use or adult use of cannabis, a direct correlation in a reduction of opioid addiction, as well as opioid-related deaths.

02:31:34.000 This is one thing that Congress can do now to help make progress in dealing with this opioid epidemic.

02:31:43.000 Another thing, we've got to put a lot more resources towards treatment and on all of the things that need to happen after that detox, that initial detox with folks who are dealing with opioid addiction and have lost everything in their lives,

02:32:00.000 then are at the place where, okay, well, if they have gotten through that detox, now they've got no place to live, they've got no place to work, they've got no money.

02:32:09.000 And to be able to provide that helping hand up as they start to put back the pieces of their life is something that we as a society need to do better at.

02:32:21.000 And the third thing I'll say is we've got to go after the culprits responsible for this.

02:32:27.000 When you look at companies like Purdue Pharma, who have intentionally deceived and lied and cheated the American people into taking these opioids, saying, No, you know, they're not risky.

02:32:39.000 They're not dangerous.

02:32:40.000 Don't worry about it.

02:32:41.000 These highly addictive opioids creating this situation that we are in, they are still not being held accountable in the way that they need to.

02:32:51.000 I think it's the Sackler family has made tons of money off of selling these opioids that have ruined and devastated people's lives.

02:32:59.000 Our legislation, the Opioid Accountability Act we introduced in the last Congress, we're going to be introducing again soon, would provide our federal prosecutors with the tools they need to hold companies like Purdue Pharma and others responsible for this proliferation of opioids criminally accountable.

02:33:18.000 And another thing that baffles me is this constant changing of the dosage, this fentanyl and this new thing that's even more powerful than fentanyl.

02:33:27.000 The fact that they're developing these incredibly potent opioids.

02:33:31.000 Which the FDA has approved.

02:33:32.000 I don't understand.

02:33:34.000 Right.

02:33:34.000 I don't understand why do you need them.

02:33:36.000 Right.

02:33:36.000 What are they for?

02:33:37.000 They're toxic, they're fatal in incredibly small doses.

02:33:41.000 Yeah.

02:33:42.000 And it's not like we don't already have OxyContin, codeine.

02:33:46.000 We have all these pain medications.

02:33:48.000 Like, why are they insisting on letting these companies patent these superior and even more lethal versions of something we already have a problem with?

02:33:57.000 That's exactly right.

02:33:58.000 It makes no sense.

02:33:59.000 And I think it speaks to the huge influence, the huge influence that these pharmaceutical companies have over regulators and lawmakers both.

02:34:09.000 So much of this comes back to money, Joe.

02:34:12.000 You say all the right things.

02:34:13.000 I love talking to you.

02:34:15.000 It's great to be here.

02:34:16.000 Thank you.

02:34:19.000 We live in a crazy time, and you're a breath of fresh air.

02:34:23.000 Thank you.

02:34:24.000 I appreciate you, and I wish you well.

02:34:26.000 Thank you so much.

02:34:26.000 Good luck to you.

02:34:27.000 Appreciate it.

02:34:28.000 All right, folks.

02:34:29.000 On the road.

02:34:30.000 Good luck.

02:34:30.000 Take care.

The Joe Rogan Experience - May 13, 2019

Joe Rogan Experience #1295 - Tulsi Gabbard

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Summary

Transcript