The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1469 - Adam Perry Lang

00:00:00.000 One.

00:00:01.000 What's happening, brother?

00:00:02.000 How are you?

00:00:03.000 Good to be here.

00:00:03.000 Good to have you.

00:00:05.000 I have enjoyed your restaurant many times.

00:00:07.000 This is my favorite steak restaurant in all of Los Angeles.

00:00:09.000 Thank you.

00:00:10.000 And it's one of the reasons why I wanted to bring you in here because this is a really crazy time for restaurants.

00:00:17.000 And I mean, that's basically, that's the gist of it.

00:00:22.000 This is a crazy time.

00:00:24.000 It's bananas.

00:00:25.000 It's absolutely crazy.

00:00:26.000 Trying to just get a handle on it.

00:00:27.000 It's just overwhelming.

00:00:29.000 So for me, it's just head down and cook.

00:00:31.000 Try to help people that are in need, and then we'll figure it out later.

00:00:36.000 Well, I know you've been doing a lot of cooking for first responders and for hospitals.

00:00:41.000 What have you been doing with your time now that this is...

00:00:44.000 Well, it really first started where basically everybody was just staring at each other and saying, what is going on?

00:00:53.000 What's happening?

00:00:54.000 And I didn't lay off any of my employees, and it's all happening.

00:00:58.000 Everybody else is closing up shop, and I'm just overwhelmed as a business owner.

00:01:03.000 What am I going to do?

00:01:05.000 And I actually had my GM come up to me and, you know, because I'm trying to figure it out.

00:01:10.000 Everybody's asked what's going to happen.

00:01:12.000 My GM came up to me and says, hey, listen, you know, we're with you.

00:01:16.000 We know you didn't create the coronavirus.

00:01:18.000 You know, you do what you have to do.

00:01:20.000 And we know your heart's in the right place.

00:01:23.000 And I was just like, I just like kind of just let out a breath and I'm like, okay, well, I appreciate you saying that.

00:01:30.000 And then I was just head down, get down to business with it.

00:01:33.000 And, um, um, we had a cut back, um, 90% of the staff and, uh, we were just like, just cook.

00:01:42.000 Um, didn't know who we're going to, who's going to buy it or anything.

00:01:45.000 It was just crazy.

00:01:47.000 So would you just tell everybody, the steakhouse is called APL, and it's in LA in, what is that, like the theater district?

00:01:54.000 What is that called?

00:01:54.000 Yeah, it's in the heart of Hollywood, Hollywood and Vine, and it's right next to the Pentages Theater, which we, and what's ironic was, it was literally, when they closed down all the restaurants, it was going to be the night of Hamilton premiering, which was a big deal for us as a business, and, you know,

00:02:10.000 all of a sudden it's like, it stops.

00:02:12.000 Yeah, we...

00:02:13.000 I went to your place right after we saw something.

00:02:17.000 It was...

00:02:18.000 Oh, it was Frozen.

00:02:21.000 Yeah, okay.

00:02:22.000 I have daughters.

00:02:23.000 Yeah, we went to see Frozen and that was the last time I was at your place.

00:02:27.000 It's...

00:02:29.000 It's got to be a very strange thing.

00:02:31.000 This has never happened before.

00:02:32.000 And one of the things that we've talked about a lot on this podcast is what's so devastating about this is there's a lot of people that have lost businesses in the past because markets changed and because maybe they didn't do what they could have done or work as hard as they could have worked.

00:02:47.000 But for so many small businesses and restaurants and bars, they've been doing the best work they've ever been able to do.

00:02:53.000 They're putting in the hours, they're showing up, they're putting out these amazing meals, and then because of nothing, that's their fault.

00:03:04.000 It just gets shut off.

00:03:05.000 It just gets shut off.

00:03:06.000 It's crazy.

00:03:07.000 And without any real understanding of how long it's going to take or when you're going to...

00:03:13.000 I mean, we just had a conversation.

00:03:14.000 I was saying we should just talk about this on air because we're just talking in the green room.

00:03:18.000 There's no clear indication of when you'll be able to go back to work and serve food to the general public and what that's going to look like.

00:03:26.000 I know.

00:03:27.000 It's the unknown.

00:03:30.000 But how I'm investing my time, how a lot of other chef restaurateurs are investing their time is trying to serve takeout to the public, but also doing charitable and things to provide for first line, you know, front line, you know, defense.

00:03:46.000 And one of the things is, you know, Jimmy Kimmel and I teamed up.

00:03:50.000 For every meal that we prepare, we donate a meal to St. Joseph's Center.

00:03:54.000 So that was the first thing.

00:03:55.000 Our attitude was, we want to help people and let them know that they're cared about.

00:04:01.000 And then the other thing is to really just keep even just the five people working.

00:04:06.000 Because we didn't even know if people were going to order.

00:04:09.000 So we jumped into it like that.

00:04:12.000 And then these services such as Frontline LA, which comes in and brings, it's like the glue between us and the hospitals.

00:04:22.000 And we prepare meals for 150 meals at a time for the hospital workers.

00:04:29.000 And do you guys package them up and then have them delivered to the hospital?

00:04:33.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:04:34.000 I mean, so we'll just sit there.

00:04:36.000 They'll say, hey, we have a need for this particular hospital, you know, Hollywood Presbyterian.

00:04:41.000 Okay, great.

00:04:41.000 150 people.

00:04:43.000 We package up the meals.

00:04:44.000 How do you do that?

00:04:45.000 Do they order off a menu or do you just prepare stuff that you think that they'll enjoy?

00:04:49.000 We prepare healthy things, things that they would appreciate.

00:04:53.000 And then also sometimes I just serve comfort items.

00:04:56.000 So sometimes I'll do meatloaf gravy and mashed potatoes because, you know, if they're just all healthy, sometimes they just need a little bit more of like, you know, warmth and like just kind of like pulling in.

00:05:05.000 That's a weird word, comfort food, you know?

00:05:07.000 It is, but that's what's happening now.

00:05:08.000 But it works.

00:05:09.000 Like when you say macaroni and cheese, comfort food.

00:05:12.000 Yeah.

00:05:12.000 It is.

00:05:13.000 That's what people are gravitating towards.

00:05:15.000 That's where my menu is right now.

00:05:16.000 It's all comfort food and barbecue.

00:05:18.000 Really?

00:05:19.000 Yeah.

00:05:19.000 So is that because that's what people are asking for?

00:05:23.000 Probably hard to cook steaks, right?

00:05:25.000 That's my read on the market.

00:05:27.000 I had experienced a similar thing where things shut down and people needed help, and that was during 9-11.

00:05:34.000 And our attitude was, how can we help people, those in need?

00:05:39.000 And really, comfort food really just blossomed out of that.

00:05:44.000 So when you're doing, right, so you're doing takeout as well.

00:05:49.000 And how does that work?

00:05:50.000 Do they order online?

00:05:51.000 Or do they call up?

00:05:52.000 Like, how's that working?

00:05:53.000 Like, we prefer curbside, as opposed to just doing Postmates and Grubhub.

00:05:57.000 You know, people can do that.

00:05:58.000 And so we'll get people to come deliver.

00:05:59.000 Yeah, let's get to that.

00:06:00.000 Because how does that work?

00:06:02.000 Postmates and Grubhub?

00:06:04.000 Is that good for your business?

00:06:05.000 Is it less good?

00:06:09.000 Yeah.

00:06:31.000 So, if you had to guess, what's the capacity for your business?

00:06:38.000 Full on, wide open, where people can come and sit down, versus now?

00:06:43.000 How much has it deteriorated?

00:06:45.000 Oh, it's maybe 10-15% of the business compared to.

00:06:52.000 Wow.

00:06:52.000 So that's why I'm just focusing on, like, I just got to keep moving.

00:06:56.000 That's how I'm emotionally getting through this thing and also keeping the business going is just basically just cook for people that are in need, you know, focus on the hospitals and the neighborhood just right around us.

00:07:08.000 So it's a tough spot.

00:07:10.000 And you obviously have a lot of friends that are in the restaurant business.

00:07:14.000 Oh, yeah.

00:07:15.000 We talk all the time.

00:07:16.000 What's the general feeling?

00:07:19.000 What's the temperature?

00:07:22.000 How's everybody dealing with this?

00:07:26.000 First of all, knowing that a good number of us are not going to be around because just even figuring out all the rules and the laws that are going to happen around this thing are unfolding.

00:07:36.000 They're just very hard to read and get a clear understanding of what's happening.

00:07:40.000 A lot of people just don't know the unknown.

00:07:43.000 Landlords, we're deferring rent, but at the same time, they're not accepting of that.

00:07:49.000 So we're on the hook, and we don't even really know where we're going to end up with it, even just the PPP loans.

00:07:57.000 What is PPP? It's the Paycheck Protection Program, and that's really a government-funded assistance to supply restaurants and all businesses.

00:08:07.000 I think of all the loans given out, I think only 5% of all the loans given out were actually to restaurants.

00:08:15.000 So, they give you a chunk of money, essentially, that covers eight weeks of payroll, and also a portion of that for...

00:08:25.000 That's 75% has to be spent on payroll, covers for eight weeks.

00:08:29.000 And then the other 25% is for rent and utilities.

00:08:32.000 So, it's like an eight-week lifeline.

00:08:35.000 So...

00:08:37.000 And so far, how long has it been now?

00:08:39.000 We're looking at like six weeks of lockdown so far or something like that?

00:08:43.000 It feels like longer.

00:08:44.000 It's got to be a little bit longer.

00:08:45.000 Like for me, it probably is that.

00:08:49.000 I don't even have a concept of time.

00:08:51.000 I'm working so hard.

00:08:52.000 It's just me and four other people.

00:08:54.000 And two are in the front and two are with me in the kitchen.

00:08:56.000 We're doing dishes.

00:08:57.000 We're cooking.

00:08:58.000 We're cleaning.

00:08:58.000 We're doing everything.

00:08:59.000 I mean, it's a great sense of accomplishment.

00:09:03.000 I got an email from a nurse thanking us for the healthy meal that we prepared for them, and that makes it worth it.

00:09:10.000 But, you know...

00:09:12.000 Like, for me, I'm actually, like, inspired and just kicking it into high gear.

00:09:16.000 I'm not going to, like, just wallow in it.

00:09:18.000 I'm just going to keep working, head down, do what I do, and just hope at the end of the day.

00:09:22.000 At the end of the day, people have to eat.

00:09:24.000 So the world's going to be different, you know, probably not going to be the same at all in terms of for my business, but what choice do I have?

00:09:32.000 Right.

00:09:32.000 You want one of these, man?

00:09:33.000 Yeah, sure.

00:09:34.000 Kill Cliff CBD drink.

00:09:35.000 Delicious.

00:09:36.000 Oh, yeah.

00:09:36.000 Nice.

00:09:39.000 Sorry for people listening to me slurp.

00:09:41.000 I like that.

00:09:43.000 So when you're operating at 10% capacity, obviously this is not sustainable.

00:09:50.000 10% of your business is not sustainable.

00:09:52.000 That's right.

00:09:53.000 Just because operating costs and all the above.

00:09:56.000 And then you're obviously in a very high profile area, which must be extraordinary rent too.

00:10:02.000 Yeah.

00:10:03.000 We're just not paying the rent.

00:10:04.000 We're just pushing it off.

00:10:06.000 We don't have the money for it, so we'll have to work it out.

00:10:09.000 You look very stressed out.

00:10:10.000 I've never seen you like this.

00:10:12.000 Every time I've seen you, that's you right there with a big smile.

00:10:15.000 Whenever I see you at your restaurant, it's always smiling.

00:10:18.000 I found out about your restaurant online.

00:10:19.000 I don't have the answers.

00:10:20.000 It's crazy.

00:10:23.000 I found out about your restaurant online.

00:10:25.000 I was just Googling new places to go for dinner.

00:10:28.000 And I don't know, it was like maybe a couple years ago.

00:10:30.000 And I was Googling steak houses, and then I saw that you specialize in dry-aged steaks.

00:10:38.000 And I had a steak that you cooked once that was more than a year dry-aged.

00:10:43.000 It was delicious, but it was really weird.

00:10:47.000 It's weird.

00:10:48.000 It's different.

00:10:50.000 Anything like a regular steak.

00:10:52.000 It tastes like, boy, it's like a different animal.

00:10:55.000 It's like you're eating something, you know, some exotic animal.

00:10:59.000 And that's what I like to do.

00:11:00.000 I mean, you know, more age doesn't necessarily mean better, but, you know, it's just different.

00:11:07.000 And that's, you know, for me as a chef, you know, I call my dry age room an environmental chamber. 0.92

00:11:12.000 Yeah, there's a picture on Instagram of me and Adam in the basement, that fucking weird meat room that you've got.

00:11:24.000 For people that have never been to a dry aging room, it's very odd. 0.90

00:11:28.000 There's fans blowing around.

00:11:30.000 Everything's a very specific temperature.

00:11:32.000 You've got all these different things labeled as far as what date it was put in there.

00:11:36.000 And for people who haven't seen dry aging, it's very odd, too, because you're like, hey, what is wrong with that meat?

00:11:43.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:11:44.000 The outside crust of it.

00:11:46.000 Here's a photo of it.

00:11:48.000 Folks, you can see it in the background of the...

00:11:51.000 It's not working?

00:11:56.000 There it is.

00:11:57.000 So, for folks who can see it in the background, the meat has like a black crust to it.

00:12:03.000 And then you slice that crust off.

00:12:06.000 What do you do with the crust?

00:12:08.000 Get rid of it.

00:12:09.000 But is it edible?

00:12:11.000 It's not enjoyable.

00:12:13.000 What about for dogs?

00:12:15.000 I want to give something a dog I want to eat myself.

00:12:17.000 Wow.

00:12:18.000 You eat dog food?

00:12:19.000 What's that?

00:12:20.000 Do you eat dog food?

00:12:20.000 No.

00:12:21.000 Do you feed your dog dog food?

00:12:22.000 I don't have a dog.

00:12:23.000 I wish I did, to be honest with you.

00:12:25.000 I have a dog, and he eats dog food.

00:12:26.000 Yeah.

00:12:27.000 I love him to death.

00:12:28.000 But he actually eats ground elk mixed in with regular dog food.

00:12:33.000 Even that, I mean, it gets a white ash, which is almost like a...

00:12:36.000 I call it a...

00:12:38.000 There's a friendly oxidation, I referred to it, in the whole process, okay?

00:12:42.000 Is that white ash like the same as you get outside of salami?

00:12:46.000 It's like that.

00:12:47.000 It's part of it.

00:12:47.000 It's a mold.

00:12:48.000 And the whole concept behind dry aging is based on three things.

00:12:53.000 It's air velocity, temperature, and humidity.

00:12:56.000 Air velocity?

00:12:57.000 Yes.

00:12:57.000 And it's really important.

00:13:01.000 When I teach people about dry aging, it's like if you're on a beach in Jamaica and there was no wind and you just start getting sweat and you're just uncomfortable, but then if trade winds went through, it would have, at the same temperature, it would evaporate the water off your skin.

00:13:17.000 So what we're trying to do is...

00:13:19.000 We're trying to, at the right ratio, evaporate the water off the surface so it doesn't get like a smelly, stinky, bad mold.

00:13:28.000 And dehydrate it slowly.

00:13:31.000 What it does is it concentrates the flavor.

00:13:34.000 It transforms the amino acids into a whole different compound and changes the flavor altogether.

00:13:39.000 And then also enzymes within the meat through the process of rigor mortis.

00:13:43.000 It breaks down so it becomes more tender.

00:13:46.000 So you get flavor enhancement.

00:13:48.000 You get tenderization, and it just blows it away.

00:13:52.000 So what does it do to the amino acids?

00:13:54.000 It transforms it into a whole other compound.

00:13:56.000 It's like a flavor.

00:13:58.000 Have you ever heard of the concept of Maillard reaction?

00:14:02.000 Yes, but I don't know what it means anymore.

00:14:04.000 I've heard the expression, but I forgot what it means.

00:14:06.000 Yeah, the Maillard reaction is basically like when you're cooking something.

00:14:10.000 Spell it.

00:14:12.000 God, I'm the worst spelling.

00:14:13.000 Is it mylar?

00:14:13.000 No, M-A-I-L-L-A-R-D. Right.

00:14:18.000 Mylar.

00:14:18.000 Okay.

00:14:19.000 Mylar.

00:14:19.000 Okay.

00:14:19.000 I said mylar.

00:14:20.000 Okay.

00:14:21.000 That's what I know as.

00:14:22.000 So, you know, whenever you're browning or you're doing different things at different rates, amino acids transform into different things and you get different flavor compounds.

00:14:31.000 And that's really what happens, you know, with meat.

00:14:33.000 You know, so if I dry age, you have to handle dry age meat a lot differently.

00:14:38.000 You can't go out and say, okay, I'm going to slow cook this once it's dry age because then I just...

00:14:42.000 It develops a really nasty, kind of like funky flavor.

00:14:47.000 But if you cook it under high heat, like really aggressive, like that's why you have steakhouse broilers.

00:14:52.000 There's something about that browning of that dry-aged meat that transforms, that just like awakens your senses.

00:14:58.000 That's interesting.

00:14:58.000 So you don't slow cook dry-aged meat.

00:15:00.000 No, I don't.

00:15:01.000 It gets livery.

00:15:02.000 It's almost like a livery.

00:15:04.000 Really?

00:15:04.000 Yeah, I don't even...

00:15:05.000 If anybody wants dry age above medium, I try to talk about it.

00:15:08.000 I'll cook it any way you want.

00:15:10.000 But if you start cooking past medium, it's almost like, you know...

00:15:17.000 Seeing someone transform, it just ages.

00:15:21.000 When you cook it a long time, it just ages and just turns into something else.

00:15:25.000 It's just nasty.

00:15:25.000 Those people who want well-done steak are offensive.

00:15:28.000 You should go and eat Burger King, you monsters. 0.99

00:15:31.000 What's wrong with you? 0.99

00:15:33.000 When I go to dinner with someone and they order well-done steak, I just cringe.

00:15:37.000 Who am I eating?

00:15:39.000 It's a cultural thing I noticed with some people.

00:15:41.000 They just want to cook.

00:15:43.000 But if they want a well-done steak, then I recommend a wet-age steak to do well-done because at least you have a fighting chance for some type of flavor that would be appealing.

00:15:51.000 But it's weird.

00:15:52.000 Why are you eating steak?

00:15:53.000 Yep.

00:15:54.000 Yep.

00:15:54.000 You know?

00:15:55.000 It's true.

00:15:56.000 It's true.

00:15:58.000 That's for me, you know?

00:15:59.000 For everybody.

00:16:01.000 It's a criminal.

00:16:02.000 It's a criminal act.

00:16:03.000 You're wasting a piece of meat.

00:16:04.000 It's true.

00:16:04.000 I kind of look the other way.

00:16:06.000 What, do you want ketchup with that?

00:16:08.000 Yeah, it's painful for me.

00:16:09.000 Yeah.

00:16:10.000 It's painful.

00:16:10.000 I mean, some people grew up eating well-done steak, and that's how they like it.

00:16:15.000 Joey Diaz eats medium well.

00:16:17.000 Medium well.

00:16:17.000 I'm like, what are you doing?

00:16:20.000 Why?

00:16:21.000 It just doesn't taste as good.

00:16:24.000 And it's also, there's an art to the perfect temperature, right?

00:16:27.000 What's the perfect internal temperature of a medium rare steak?

00:16:31.000 Would it be like 135 or something?

00:16:35.000 No, it's a bit less.

00:16:37.000 But it's not necessarily the temperature.

00:16:39.000 It's kind of like how you get there.

00:16:41.000 Okay, let me explain that to you.

00:16:43.000 So I have this method where, particularly for thicker steaks, where...

00:16:48.000 I'll cook it, I start the cooking, and then I get it to about 105 degrees, and then I allow it to rest at 105. And what ends up happening is, I call the method just like tempering of the meat, and it basically, it starts transmitting the temperature in towards the center,

00:17:07.000 and then I put it back in again, and then it'll heat up.

00:17:11.000 The temperature, if you, like, take it, I would say for medium-rare, even though, like, on many logs we'll say, okay, 120, 125 is rare, but it's not.

00:17:21.000 You know, for me, if you're going to do that method, a solid medium-rare will be about 120. Really?

00:17:28.000 Yeah.

00:17:28.000 So why do they think 120 is rare?

00:17:31.000 I don't really understand it exactly.

00:17:33.000 They'll get there.

00:17:34.000 I think they're overshooting it, particularly.

00:17:36.000 For me, it's not rare.

00:17:37.000 Rare is 110, using the method that I use.

00:17:43.000 Now, different people have different methods, which is really what's fascinating about cooking meat.

00:17:48.000 I ate at, a couple times, I've eaten at Bazaar Meats in Vegas, which is a fantastic restaurant.

00:17:54.000 Yes, fantastic.

00:17:55.000 Amazing chef.

00:17:56.000 It's an amazing place, too.

00:17:58.000 When you walk in there, it's just, visually, it's really interesting, because they have these grills with live logs.

00:18:05.000 I mean, they take, not live, obviously.

00:18:07.000 But they take logs.

00:18:09.000 They're cooking all over fire.

00:18:11.000 And they have these grates, these grill grates that rise and lower.

00:18:15.000 And you can see how they're doing it when you walk in the door.

00:18:20.000 As you're walking to your table, you're passing by.

00:18:23.000 And this method of, this idea of cooking over logs, like cooking over fire, some people prefer that.

00:18:31.000 And then some people like those crazy broilers where they're gas, but the broiler, it's on top, and you slide the steak in, and it's lowering down.

00:18:41.000 Exactly.

00:18:41.000 Is there a difference, and why?

00:18:44.000 It really comes down to...

00:18:46.000 What your taste preference is.

00:18:48.000 Okay, for me, like where I'm at right now, dry age without any type of smoke or wood is more preferable because I really want to taste the dry age.

00:18:56.000 When you start getting into the wood fire cooking and you're burning logs that aren't burnt out, I like to cook basically my wood down to charcoal, like to ash, so that it's cleaner.

00:19:09.000 Okay, so then you really taste the meat.

00:19:10.000 When you start You know, burning unburnt fuel, you know, the logs themselves, it has like these creosotes and different flavor compounds that will get on the meat.

00:19:20.000 And it's just, it kind of just like coats your palate.

00:19:23.000 So for dry, I like that for more wet age beef.

00:19:25.000 Okay.

00:19:26.000 But for the dry age, I really like cleaner.

00:19:28.000 I like the steakhouse broiler.

00:19:29.000 I like using a plancha, you know, and that's just like a heated piece of steel.

00:19:33.000 It's like, you can do that in your home with a cast iron.

00:19:36.000 It's called a plancha?

00:19:37.000 Plancha.

00:19:38.000 You know, it's just kind of like this flat sheet of steel.

00:19:42.000 And it's all about crust development and surface contact.

00:19:46.000 So I like to cut the steaks on a saw.

00:19:48.000 So it's a perfect line and it's all about contact, direct with the surface.

00:19:53.000 It's about the browning of the meat.

00:19:55.000 If you're going to get in there and you're going to cook over live wood like that, he's doing it obviously right because he's amazing.

00:20:02.000 But when you raise and lower the shelf, like I was saying how I rest it, you can start on the higher level of the heat.

00:20:11.000 And then you bring it up higher, the actual grill higher, and it's actually resting while still getting the tickle of heat up there.

00:20:19.000 The tickle of heat?

00:20:21.000 Yeah, so I imagine the flames won't actually touch the meat.

00:20:25.000 It kind of tickles it.

00:20:27.000 So it kind of wisps at the bottom of the meat.

00:20:30.000 And so the way he's doing it at Bazaar Meats, he's using wet-aged steaks.

00:20:34.000 Because that's how you would cook over that kind of...

00:20:38.000 I don't know if he's doing it.

00:20:39.000 That's my personal preference.

00:20:41.000 I mean, I think he does do some aging.

00:20:43.000 He does do some aging, I believe, over there.

00:20:45.000 But it's just, I've watched YouTube videos on how to cook the perfect steak.

00:20:50.000 You can watch three different videos from three different chefs, and there's three different methods.

00:20:54.000 Same thing about dry aging, though.

00:20:56.000 I mean, all dry aging is not created equal.

00:20:58.000 I call it an environmental chamber.

00:21:00.000 So think about making cheese in France.

00:21:02.000 You say, hey, I ordered goat cheese.

00:21:03.000 And you think you'd get one type of goat cheese across the line.

00:21:06.000 I'm creating an environment, just like a cheese maker, that's unique to my own.

00:21:10.000 I actually have the culture from 15, 16 years ago that I've traveled with.

00:21:16.000 Hold on.

00:21:18.000 You put culture?

00:21:19.000 Yeah.

00:21:19.000 Yeah, I have like a method.

00:21:21.000 I basically take meat that has been aged and I bring those spores, if you will, from that aging meat because, you know, there's a mold on it.

00:21:30.000 It's a friendly mold.

00:21:32.000 It's a friendly mold.

00:21:32.000 Yeah, I like it.

00:21:33.000 I don't want to like it.

00:21:35.000 I don't want to turn people off to it because this has been...

00:21:39.000 I didn't know that you brought your own mold.

00:21:41.000 I just figured you just let it dry age.

00:21:44.000 It's not as simple as that.

00:21:46.000 For me, it's each environment.

00:21:48.000 Again, so I get away from...

00:21:50.000 Someone can turn around and say, my dry age is incredibly clean at 100 days, 120 days.

00:21:57.000 Because I get there slowly.

00:21:59.000 My temperature is very low.

00:22:01.000 I like to dry age at 32 to 35 degrees.

00:22:04.000 I like a higher humidity so I don't dehydrate the meat too soon.

00:22:09.000 I like 85 percent.

00:22:10.000 Sometimes a little bit lower if I want to pull.

00:22:12.000 It really depends.

00:22:14.000 Lots of fans.

00:22:15.000 How are you bringing this culture in?

00:22:18.000 How do you get it to interact with the meat?

00:22:19.000 I basically take pieces from the previous dry age room and I bring it To that and so I put it up by the fan and it will circulate spores.

00:22:31.000 You put it by the fan.

00:22:32.000 How do you do that?

00:22:33.000 Well, there's a fan in a cooler, and it's blowing around.

00:22:38.000 It's like blowing the...

00:22:39.000 So it'll blow the spores around the room.

00:22:43.000 So my dry-age has a unique flavor.

00:22:45.000 You might try some great guys who are like master purveyors in the Bronx, which is...

00:22:50.000 These guys are like my heroes.

00:22:52.000 They taught me practically dry-aging.

00:22:54.000 They have their own flavors, so their dry-age tastes different.

00:22:57.000 Pat LaFried is another New York guy, does amazing dry-aged beef as well.

00:23:01.000 You know, his has a different flavor.

00:23:03.000 So, you know, for me, that's why I take a lot of pride, even though it's not the most cost-effective thing to carry, you know, $100,000 in inventory.

00:23:11.000 But it gives me a unique flavor profile that is my unique selling point for my restaurant.

00:23:17.000 So you have these pieces, so like those steaks that we saw in that photograph, you would take one of those dry-aged steaks when it's ready, and then you would trim the pieces off, then you use those pieces, those darkened pieces, which has the spores on it, and that would...

00:23:32.000 How do you know how much to put in there?

00:23:34.000 I'll put it as much as I can.

00:23:35.000 You know, I'm really, I don't want it too, like, clean, clean in there.

00:23:39.000 I want it to be an environment.

00:23:41.000 So it's like a cave.

00:23:43.000 And, you know, I'll put a couple of trays in and then I'm very tactile.

00:23:48.000 So I'll touch the meat and I'll feel it and, you know, I'll taste it.

00:23:51.000 I'll see where we're at.

00:23:52.000 I'm always cutting into a steak.

00:23:54.000 It's like a lot like...

00:23:55.000 When you say you taste it, you cook it?

00:23:57.000 Yeah, like I'll cut off a piece, like how are we looking at 30 days?

00:24:00.000 How are we looking at 50 days?

00:24:01.000 So each room is different because, you know, I had a dry age room in Vegas and we had, you know, ceilings that were 30, 35 feet, a lot of circulating air.

00:24:12.000 It was just, it was just like, had a different flavor profile.

00:24:16.000 We were able to age differently.

00:24:18.000 150 days, and that was like our sweet spot.

00:24:21.000 And then here in Hollywood, it's a lot less.

00:24:24.000 I have a lower ceiling.

00:24:26.000 It circulates differently.

00:24:28.000 You have to really kind of taste.

00:24:30.000 It's not just like, hey, I have dry age.

00:24:31.000 Or you go to the supermarket, it's like, oh, you sell dry age?

00:24:34.000 Okay, great, I'll take it.

00:24:35.000 And if you think that's what it tastes like, it's a good indicator of what it is.

00:24:40.000 But if you really want to get down to it, each dry age can taste a lot different.

00:24:48.000 That's really weird.

00:24:49.000 So it's very experimental in a lot of ways.

00:24:53.000 It's constantly moving.

00:24:55.000 How long did it take you to dial it in?

00:24:58.000 Well, when I first did it, it was really by mistake, particularly the extended age, because you just weren't selling the meat.

00:25:03.000 So I had a lot of pieces left back for a long time.

00:25:09.000 And I cut into it, and I tasted it, and I was like, whoa, I mean, this is incredible.

00:25:15.000 And I was talking to the old-school guys who dry aged, like, oh, you're wasting your money. 1.00

00:25:19.000 Nobody wants steak over 42 days.

00:25:22.000 You know, it's just dehydrating, whatever.

00:25:24.000 It's like, no, I think we're onto something.

00:25:26.000 You know, there's a big difference here in the flavor.

00:25:29.000 And as, you know, we would see like a huge difference, a jump into flavor and like good quality, not like the funky stuff, like the full year.

00:25:38.000 That's another level.

00:25:39.000 It's very good, though.

00:25:40.000 You say funky, and I just want to clarify to people, it is delicious.

00:25:44.000 It is delicious.

00:25:45.000 But it's unusual.

00:25:46.000 It's like you're eating something from Africa. 0.96

00:25:48.000 Some unusual kudu meat or something like that.

00:25:51.000 Some strange game.

00:25:53.000 And you don't want to eat too much.

00:25:55.000 People want a whole steak.

00:25:56.000 I'm like, no, you just want two slices of it.

00:25:59.000 Savor it like a fine wine.

00:26:01.000 Understand it.

00:26:02.000 Get to know it.

00:26:02.000 But don't hunker down on it.

00:26:04.000 How come you don't want people to hunker down on it?

00:26:06.000 Because sometimes too much of a good thing is not good, okay?

00:26:11.000 And I say the same thing also for the Japanese Wagyu.

00:26:14.000 Like, oh, you see all that fat and the marbleization.

00:26:16.000 It's incredibly rich.

00:26:18.000 And if you eat it like a Westerner, it's not right. 1.00

00:26:21.000 It's just, it's too much.

00:26:23.000 So certain steaks, certain types of beef, you should be eating only a small amount and appreciating it.

00:26:30.000 Anything more, like, you just, it's just, I don't know, it gets me.

00:26:34.000 It's too much for me.

00:26:36.000 When did people start dry-aging a year?

00:26:39.000 Like, when did this really...

00:26:41.000 Because this is not something...

00:26:42.000 I mean, obviously, I know nothing about restaurants other than that they're great.

00:26:47.000 But when I had heard about dry-aging, I would hear, like, 30 days dry-age, 60 days dry-age.

00:26:54.000 I never heard of a year.

00:26:55.000 Like, is this a new thing?

00:26:58.000 You know, they were doing it in Spain for some time, particularly with the older animals like the oxen, you know, animals that are five years, eight years, ten years old.

00:27:08.000 And they would age these for long periods of time.

00:27:11.000 I was not aware of this when I started doing it, but they were the first people that I heard about it was doing it while I was doing it.

00:27:17.000 There was amazing food writer Jeffrey Steingarten who just like...

00:27:21.000 Dialed into me and we did a tasting with one of my culinary heroes, Harold McGee, who wrote the incredible book on food and cooking, which is a scientific manual to all chefs around.

00:27:33.000 He's an amazing guy.

00:27:34.000 And he had put in his book that there's really no difference in flavor.

00:27:39.000 When you get to that point.

00:27:41.000 And so that later stage.

00:27:43.000 So we cook three steaks and we cut a cube out of the center of it.

00:27:47.000 And at that point, he says, wait, maybe there is something different.

00:27:51.000 I'm not sure.

00:27:52.000 I mean, nowadays you hear more about it because we're chefs.

00:27:56.000 We like to play with things.

00:27:57.000 We like to push the limits on things.

00:27:59.000 But not many people want to make the commitment because it's so costly to carry the inventory.

00:28:05.000 And they're scared to actually do it because if you screw it up...

00:28:09.000 You know, you lose all the money.

00:28:11.000 So I see more of it now, but back when I was doing it, there really wasn't anybody else pushing the limits.

00:28:19.000 Maybe a few people.

00:28:20.000 I don't want to say like I was the only one, but, you know, possibly there could have been a few people, but, you know.

00:28:29.000 So what's interesting to me about just cuisine and cooking in general is that I didn't think of it until I watched Bourdain's original show, No Reservations.

00:28:42.000 I didn't think of it as an art form.

00:28:43.000 And then when I watched the show, I was like, look how into cooking this guy is.

00:28:48.000 That's one of the things about...

00:28:50.000 People being really passionate about something.

00:28:54.000 It's incredibly contagious.

00:28:56.000 And his passion for cooking and his fascination with different methods that these masters would use and the way he would just...

00:29:06.000 You could see it.

00:29:07.000 He was so...

00:29:10.000 Focused on it and so enthralled by these flavors and these creations that these chefs would make that I realized like, oh, this is an art form.

00:29:20.000 It's just an art form that you eat.

00:29:23.000 I never thought of it that way.

00:29:25.000 I just thought, oh, that place has delicious food.

00:29:28.000 This place tastes good.

00:29:30.000 And then you go to a really fine restaurant or a fine steakhouse like your place and you go, oh, these people are – they're artists.

00:29:38.000 They're artists.

00:29:39.000 It balances between art and craft.

00:29:42.000 It's like there's a moment in time when – As chefs, we explore it as art, you know, because, you know, you're not going in with any boundaries and you're not going in any preconceived notions of what it should be.

00:29:54.000 And that's when cooking is a true art.

00:29:57.000 Most of the time, we're doing the craft part, where we figured it out, and then there's a regiment of lining it up to make sure it's consistent, and we pride ourselves in basically that consistency and team gathering around and doing something universal together.

00:30:14.000 But the art form for me is, and maintaining, just being curious and inquisitive, has just been my bug from the day I decided to be a chef and For many people, like Bourdain and every other chef that I know of, that's the key, that you know that you'll never learn everything.

00:30:31.000 But you keep trying, and there's just like a sea of information that's out there to explore.

00:30:38.000 Yeah, he would take you on these journeys to these, like, very strange restaurants in France where, you know, they're on the side of a lake and there's, like, ten customers and a hundred chefs working.

00:30:49.000 And they're creating these things, like, with fillet knives and a grape and, like, two or three caviar eggs.

00:30:56.000 And then they give it to these people and they're in ecstasy.

00:30:58.000 I'm like, what?

00:30:59.000 This is so different.

00:31:00.000 I almost felt embarrassed when I first started talking to him about this.

00:31:06.000 You know what it's like for me?

00:31:08.000 I've been a lifelong martial artist, and when some people believe ridiculous things about martial arts, And then you have to kind of, well, that's not really how it works.

00:31:18.000 You have to kind of explain to them.

00:31:19.000 And then they see it from my perspective and they're like, oh, you've been doing this your whole life.

00:31:24.000 This is something you're deeply invested in and you're very passionate about and you care very deeply about the true nature of what martial arts are.

00:31:33.000 Well, that's how cooking is to chefs. 0.55

00:31:37.000 They're all very similar.

00:31:38.000 I know people don't like to think of martial arts as an art form.

00:31:41.000 That's a great analogy.

00:31:42.000 Yeah, but they don't like to think of it as an art form because it hurts people, because it's violent and violence is bad.

00:31:47.000 But it is an art form.

00:31:49.000 It's just a strange one that it's beautiful to the people that appreciate it, that understand how difficult it is to pull something off and what this incredible dance between these people is.

00:32:02.000 On the outside, an ignorant person or a person with a very narrow-minded perspective would say, oh, that's not an art.

00:32:10.000 That's violence. 0.99

00:32:11.000 That's terrible.

00:32:11.000 Was it Meryl Streep that said that?

00:32:14.000 Wasn't it?

00:32:15.000 Yeah, it was.

00:32:16.000 It was.

00:32:17.000 Like, no, martial arts are not the arts.

00:32:20.000 Like, okay, lady. 0.97

00:32:22.000 Settle down.

00:32:24.000 People have their preconceived notions.

00:32:26.000 And I had an embarrassing preconceived notion about food.

00:32:30.000 And I say embarrassing because...

00:32:32.000 It's a great analogy, by the way.

00:32:33.000 It is, in many ways.

00:32:35.000 And comedy is similar in that sense as well.

00:32:38.000 Because people look at comedy like, oh, they're just telling jokes.

00:32:42.000 Yes, yes, they are telling jokes, but...

00:32:46.000 The process is so labor-intensive.

00:32:49.000 There's so much going on, and I think it's like everything.

00:32:53.000 So many things, you look at them from the outside, whether it's carpentry or sculpture, you look at it from the outside, and if you have no experience in it, people can dismiss it, and they don't think of it as this passionate art form.

00:33:06.000 But now I have a completely different...

00:33:08.000 I mean, I became good friends with Bourdain, and I did a show and hung out with him a bunch of times, and I got it then.

00:33:17.000 I'm like, okay, this is a different thing than I had this idea, this narrow-minded idea of what food is.

00:33:23.000 And then you get to meet other chefs and you meet all these people and you're like, these are these sort of underappreciated artists that are also feeding people.

00:33:30.000 He had that ability.

00:33:32.000 He had that ability to bridge the gap and to help people understand.

00:33:35.000 He schooled me once in trying to understand Japanese cuisine.

00:33:39.000 Yeah, you were telling me about that.

00:33:40.000 Tell me about it.

00:33:41.000 What was that like?

00:33:42.000 Well, I was sitting there around the table.

00:33:44.000 I was there with him and Emeril.

00:33:46.000 It was after an event down in South Beach Food and Wine.

00:33:51.000 We're all, as cooks do, all at the end of an event, you know, we're sitting around and we're just kind of reminiscing on things happening, and he was there, I was sitting next to him, and someone brought up the concept of, you know, Japanese cuisine, and I just said...

00:34:07.000 Yeah, you know, it's so simple.

00:34:09.000 And he just says, yes, but it's so complex.

00:34:13.000 And then I just took a step back and he just began to really school me on it.

00:34:18.000 And he just had the ability just to really communicate food and connection to community and culture.

00:34:26.000 And that for me was a big moment.

00:34:29.000 Like I just got to really see him as that person directly.

00:34:32.000 I didn't think that sushi was very complex at all, the Japanese food, until I watched Jiro Dreams of Sushi.

00:34:40.000 I know, that's it.

00:34:40.000 You watch that and you go, oh my god.

00:34:44.000 I mean, you just look at the fish and it just starts to curl.

00:34:47.000 You know, it's so fresh or they slap the clam and it just like curls up.

00:34:51.000 It's like, whoa, that's fresh and the pride and the seasonality and...

00:34:55.000 I mean, like, what blew me away, I've been to Japan a couple of times.

00:34:58.000 I have this amazing guy.

00:35:00.000 He's known as the Tokyo Fixer, Shinji Nohara.

00:35:02.000 All the chefs know him.

00:35:03.000 If you go to Japan... 0.87

00:35:04.000 Tokyo Fixer?

00:35:05.000 Yeah, he's known as the Tokyo Fixer.

00:35:07.000 Why is he a fixer?

00:35:08.000 Because he knows all the places in the books, off the books.

00:35:13.000 If you wanted to, let's say, just...

00:35:15.000 You know, know who, like, produces the best tuna.

00:35:18.000 He'll get you to the tuna boat and he'll introduce you to the guy, the main guy.

00:35:22.000 But, I mean, these guys who buy the tuna, for example, like, you're seeing them at the market, touching, feeling it, but the best sushi chefs know the actual captains and they know how they're handling the fish and they have a relationship that far before it actually hits the auction.

00:35:39.000 I mean, they're in it.

00:35:41.000 They're so committed.

00:35:42.000 I asked them one day, You know, he was talking about this big tuna auction that they do every year.

00:35:48.000 And I said, why would someone pay a million dollars for tuna?

00:35:50.000 Like, you know, Western, like, how do you make your money back?

00:35:53.000 He's like, no, you know, Japanese, it's considered, you know, an obligation, if you can afford it, to actually be able to, even at a loss, to your customers, because it's almost a duty to do so.

00:36:09.000 And that, for me, is profound.

00:36:10.000 That's why Japanese chefs, I went there, and I was just like...

00:36:14.000 The million dollar tuna thing was explained to me by another chef as a dick waving contest.

00:36:18.000 He said it's essentially, you're looking for, it's a prestige thing.

00:36:24.000 It's a prestige thing.

00:36:25.000 Yeah, like they'll show that they're spending so much money on this tuna, not because it's worth that.

00:36:31.000 Oh, it's definitely not.

00:36:32.000 Yeah, because that's why it's confusing to people.

00:36:35.000 Because people are like, how's a tuna worth a million dollars?

00:36:37.000 Well, it's not.

00:36:39.000 But culturally, deep down inside of them, it's like it's almost their duty to do it.

00:36:43.000 It's not as if, I mean, it's definitely like you could look at it as a show-off thing, but I mean, if you really understand from like Western culture, but in reality there, it's almost like it's a pride thing.

00:36:54.000 It's not like, hey, look at me.

00:36:56.000 It's really more like, you know, I'm able to provide this for my customers.

00:37:01.000 So to me, it's a little bit more beautiful to look at it that way.

00:37:05.000 Right.

00:37:15.000 I wanted, as a chef, to do everything that I can within the cycle of serving the steak on the plate up to the point where they cut the meat to have that control on it.

00:37:28.000 And then ultimately, whether they like it or not, that's their business.

00:37:31.000 But at least I did everything that I could to control it.

00:37:35.000 Because even just how you cut the meat has a different impact on how you would taste it.

00:37:40.000 Yeah, that's one of the interesting things about your place.

00:37:43.000 You make the steak knives.

00:37:45.000 When they serve you and they put the forks and the knife down, they tell you, you know, Adam Perry Lang made this steak knife.

00:37:53.000 And you're like, oh.

00:37:54.000 And I priced it at $950 on one cent.

00:37:56.000 Everybody's like, why so much?

00:37:57.000 I was like...

00:37:58.000 What's the felony threshold? 1.00

00:38:16.000 I don't want to sit there, you know, like, you know, people are idiots sometimes, you know, they'll go into the restaurant and they'll just take stuff and they don't realize what goes into it. 0.98

00:38:23.000 And I was like, listen, you know, I know I'm going to have a couple of bad apples in there, but the majority of people really are good people and they're not going to steal things. 0.97

00:38:31.000 But a good majority will take pepper mills and things, which infuriates us as restaurateurs.

00:38:37.000 That's so gross.

00:38:38.000 I never thought of that.

00:38:39.000 Oh, it's terrible.

00:38:39.000 It's terrible what they'll take.

00:38:42.000 Meaningful stuff.

00:38:43.000 Because you really want to do nice things for your customer.

00:38:47.000 Do you catch people taking pepper mills?

00:38:49.000 No, I don't put pepper mills on the table.

00:38:51.000 I won't even expose myself to it.

00:38:53.000 But for the knife, though, we have caught...

00:38:55.000 I have one story.

00:38:57.000 Only a few people have attempted, and I basically got to the point of pressing charges to get the guy.

00:39:06.000 But instead, I found him on Twitter, and I messaged him.

00:39:10.000 I was like, listen...

00:39:12.000 How do you know who took your knife?

00:39:14.000 You know, we know everything.

00:39:15.000 We have cameras and we have who the reservation is under.

00:39:19.000 So we had cameras all over the restaurant.

00:39:21.000 So when we put the knife down, we have a whole system of like knife in, knife out.

00:39:26.000 And this guy had slipped in.

00:39:28.000 I'm not going to mention his name because at the end of the day, he did the right thing.

00:39:32.000 But he had slipped the knife into the baby carriage, into his baby's carriage.

00:39:35.000 And I'm like, you mother...

00:39:38.000 So I called him very calmly and I said, listen, I don't think you realize what went into those knives.

00:39:47.000 I make them, no response, no response.

00:39:50.000 And then I reminded him, I said, it's a felony and I'm going to give you until six o'clock today to return the knife.

00:39:55.000 And then he realized we were serious.

00:39:58.000 He returned the knife and then So he returned it personally?

00:40:02.000 Yeah.

00:40:03.000 How awkward.

00:40:04.000 I had another guy and he returned it and he just like was pissed off.

00:40:08.000 He handed it back and he walked out the door.

00:40:10.000 Why is he mad at you?

00:40:11.000 Because he stole something.

00:40:13.000 I can't figure it.

00:40:15.000 Dealing with the general public, I mean, in a sense, this is a lot like comedy clubs.

00:40:19.000 Like most people are amazing.

00:40:21.000 Yes.

00:40:21.000 And then you get a few knuckleheads that want to yell out things and interrupt the show.

00:40:26.000 You just try not to allow it to penetrate you, to start causing you to not make nice things so your customers enjoy.

00:40:34.000 So you try to block that out.

00:40:36.000 You just try to give a good experience to people the best that you can.

00:40:41.000 Yeah, that's the same thing with comedy.

00:40:43.000 You want to make sure that you never have a negative feeling about the audience.

00:40:48.000 But some people do develop that that don't understand.

00:40:53.000 It's almost like if you read every comment on Twitter, you know, most people are nice, but it only takes 1%.

00:41:01.000 Like, I was explaining to my friend Jack, who was on the other day, author Jack Carr.

00:41:08.000 And he read some comments.

00:41:10.000 He goes, now I know why you don't read the comments.

00:41:11.000 I'm like, I told you.

00:41:12.000 I go, listen, you just have to think. 0.99

00:41:14.000 If 1% of the people who are on my Instagram page are assholes, just 1%, that's 92,000 assholes. 1.00

00:41:27.000 It's insane. 0.99

00:41:27.000 You have to think of it that way. 0.99

00:41:29.000 Like, why would you risk your mental well-being and put it in the hand of 92,000 assholes? 0.99

00:41:36.000 And that's generous. 0.99

00:41:37.000 One out of 100 people. 1.00

00:41:38.000 If you went into a room and there's 100 people in there, what are the odds that one of those people is going to be a fucking idiot? 1.00

00:41:43.000 It's pretty high. 1.00

00:41:45.000 Well, you've got to think that way times three or four online because of anonymity, because of the fact that people are...

00:41:52.000 They don't think they're hurting a person when they say something mean. 0.99

00:41:56.000 When they look at a restaurant, it's like, oh, these fucking guys, they don't need this knife. 1.00

00:41:59.000 They just tuck it. 0.99

00:42:00.000 Or this will look cool and it's almost like there's an entitlement.

00:42:03.000 Yes, and oh, this meal was so expensive.

00:42:05.000 I'll steal a knife.

00:42:06.000 Yeah, I mean, they feel like you are doing great.

00:42:11.000 You've got this really nice restaurant on Vine in Hollywood.

00:42:15.000 You must be a baller.

00:42:17.000 Yeah, they don't get it.

00:42:18.000 No.

00:42:19.000 Well, hopefully they'll get it if they hear this.

00:42:21.000 They probably won't.

00:42:22.000 Maybe there's a guy listening that actually stole the knife right now. 1.00

00:42:25.000 He's like, motherfucker! 1.00

00:42:27.000 You brought me up! 1.00

00:42:28.000 We've gotten them back.

00:42:29.000 We've gotten them back, the good majority of them.

00:42:31.000 So there's a few out there, out in the wild.

00:42:34.000 A few out there.

00:42:35.000 And you can buy them, too, right?

00:42:36.000 Well, you know what?

00:42:38.000 I have sold it, but again, I price it to deter because I only have a certain number.

00:42:45.000 I think I made 320 on the first run, and then I just made another 500 with my partner.

00:42:54.000 He's a master bladesmith, this guy, KC London.

00:42:58.000 He's just...

00:42:59.000 You know him and I like we're head down and we can literally spend 12 to 14 hours just stamping an insignia into the blade and You know days upon days like thousands of hours of work go into these things and Who else does that?

00:43:14.000 Is there any other chefs that make their own knives?

00:43:17.000 Not that I really know you got that market cornered I guess so I guess so you know how did you get involved in that like it was that something you thought like hey This would be a great additional touch or were you always fascinated with knife making?

00:43:29.000 Well, I've always been fascinated by knives because knives to a chef are an extension of themselves.

00:43:34.000 So you can judge a chef just basically on how sharp they are and how they maintain their knives in terms of what type of quality of output they're actually going to do.

00:43:43.000 It's a sense of pride.

00:43:44.000 So if you're just someone who has a garden and grows a tomato, you're going to take that first tomato.

00:43:50.000 You think you're just going to grab any knife from the drawer?

00:43:52.000 You're going to get your sharpest knife and you're going to slice into it.

00:43:55.000 So like everything we do, it's like, if you're seriously committed to the craft, it's like, you want to make sure your tools are top notch.

00:44:04.000 And for me, I've always, you know, always had a knife in my hand.

00:44:07.000 But when I sold my business in London, um, I wanted to just take some time, and I got into this concept of wanting just to go that next step, that next level.

00:44:20.000 I was fascinated with steel, so I went to the New England School of Metalwork.

00:44:25.000 First, we learned how to make steel from iron, and then went through the whole process.

00:44:31.000 How long did that take?

00:44:33.000 They have these great courses, you know, a week, two weeks, three weeks at a pop.

00:44:37.000 So, you know, it's about a year flying back and forth to Maine to attend the school.

00:44:44.000 And then that community is like I remember a restaurant community before Food Network got involved.

00:44:50.000 And, you know, it's all about craft and sharing information.

00:44:54.000 So you can go to these things called hammer-ins, where around the country there'll be an ensemble of maybe like nine to ten, you know, master smiths.

00:45:02.000 Who will show like, okay, handle making or, you know, making a dagger or tempering steel, you know, in a certain way.

00:45:11.000 And, you know, you learn.

00:45:13.000 And I just became fascinated with it.

00:45:19.000 Just to actually just...

00:45:21.000 Use a power hammer with a 5,000-pound anvil and thin out steel.

00:45:27.000 It just puts adrenaline through you.

00:45:29.000 It's like physical, like making something and then knowing that you're making something that will last generations if it's maintained.

00:45:36.000 I mean, that's powerful stuff.

00:45:38.000 You want to see something cool on the end of the table?

00:45:40.000 That's a samurai sword from the 1500s.

00:45:42.000 Where, where, where?

00:45:43.000 Yeah, hold on a second.

00:45:44.000 You need to see this.

00:45:44.000 I do need to see this.

00:45:46.000 I'm into this.

00:45:50.000 Oh my gosh.

00:45:51.000 Can I take a look?

00:45:52.000 Yeah, pull it out.

00:45:53.000 Don't cut anybody.

00:45:54.000 I won't.

00:45:54.000 That's a legit samurai sword.

00:45:57.000 Wow.

00:45:58.000 With papers and everything.

00:45:59.000 With the stingray.

00:46:00.000 Yeah, I don't know whether the scabbard is original, but the steel, the actual steel is original.

00:46:05.000 I'm sure it's been rewrapped.

00:46:06.000 Can you imagine that?

00:46:07.000 Now look at this steel.

00:46:08.000 I mean, this steel is like...

00:46:10.000 It's 500 years old.

00:46:12.000 That's what's crazy.

00:46:14.000 And that's the profound thing.

00:46:15.000 I mean, there's something about making something that would last like that.

00:46:19.000 I mean...

00:46:21.000 No, it's amazing.

00:46:22.000 It's an amazing thing to have around.

00:46:25.000 And when you pick it up and hold it, it's got weight to it, but it's delicate in the sense that it's thin and elegant, but yet it's designed...

00:46:35.000 Can you see the curve in the blade like that?

00:46:37.000 And, you know, what's amazing about this is that when they do the quench, in other words, when they're actually putting the sole of the blade into it, the heat treatment.

00:46:46.000 So, you know, anybody can, like, pound out and make a shake.

00:46:48.000 Well, not anybody, but pretty much anybody who's handy with...

00:46:53.000 You know, making things can make what looks like a blade.

00:46:56.000 But the true soul of the blade comes through the thermal cycle, the heat treatment.

00:47:01.000 That's why, you know, people like, oh, Japanese steel is the best or German steel is the best because there's this whole process that is about aligning the molecular structure and the right type of stack and the type of steel that you do and then hardening it or softening it.

00:47:17.000 So if you want a softer blade or You know, that might be more utility or you want a harder blade.

00:47:23.000 That might be more brittle but can get really razor sharp.

00:47:26.000 That's what determines what the blade is and what it will be.

00:47:31.000 And it's that sole of the blade that, like something like this.

00:47:34.000 So this curve is actually produced by the quench.

00:47:37.000 So after you go through this process and you heat it up and you put it into the water, it actually just blasts.

00:47:45.000 It bows up and actually creates its curve.

00:47:48.000 And evenly, too, which is incredible.

00:47:51.000 That's why these guys are, to me, the epitome of, like, masters.

00:47:55.000 These craftsmen that make knives and blades.

00:47:58.000 Well, there's always the dopest scenes in movies where someone's making a samurai sword when they're about to go out and kill somebody with it.

00:48:04.000 Oh, yeah.

00:48:04.000 The thing is, the guy goes to the knife master or the sword master and he's pounding on it and the red-hot steel dunking into the fire.

00:48:13.000 I went to get a blade made for me in Japan, and I went to this amazing place, Corn Trading in New York, and the owner, she came to me and she says, well, the knife maker would like to have a picture of you.

00:48:28.000 While they're making the blade and at that time, I was just like, whoa, this is this before I was making.

00:48:34.000 So he wants to look at you while he's making it?

00:48:35.000 Yeah, for some reason.

00:48:36.000 I said, wow, that's pretty profound.

00:48:39.000 You know, I was like, okay, you know, puts your soul, your character into the blade.

00:48:42.000 So he wants to think of you as he's making the thing for you.

00:48:46.000 I guess so.

00:48:46.000 That's cool.

00:48:46.000 For me, it was pretty incredible.

00:48:48.000 This is amazing.

00:48:49.000 Yeah, let me get it out of here before something spills on it.

00:48:52.000 Yeah, I always...

00:48:53.000 People take pictures with this, and I'll have you take a picture with it at the end of the...

00:48:57.000 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:48:58.000 See, that's why.

00:49:01.000 There we go.

00:49:03.000 You got so much cool stuff around here.

00:49:05.000 Too much. 0.99

00:49:05.000 This fucking... 0.99

00:49:06.000 That's a mess. 0.99

00:49:07.000 I'm cleaning it up today.

00:49:09.000 After this podcast, I've decided I gotta take Donnell Rawlings' black ash candle off.

00:49:15.000 I love you, Donnell, but I'm not into this smell every day.

00:49:19.000 But, um...

00:49:20.000 I want to get back to something you said earlier.

00:49:22.000 You said the way restaurants were before the Food Network.

00:49:26.000 Yeah.

00:49:26.000 Like, what happened?

00:49:28.000 You know, I think Food Network and food shows in general are a great thing.

00:49:34.000 You know, it empowers people to cook, and there's all different levels, and I think it's the greatest thing.

00:49:39.000 It also has given us as chefs a platform to do some incredible things, too.

00:49:44.000 But there was a different type of motivation between the cook's Yeah.

00:50:10.000 About the craft, the putting in the hours, the repetition that doesn't make sense until all of a sudden you're doing something without thinking about it.

00:50:19.000 And that's what it was like really before.

00:50:22.000 Everybody who was in the kitchen was there because...

00:50:26.000 They loved cooking, not for any reason of celebrity or whatever it is.

00:50:33.000 So it really, it did change good, you know, patience.

00:50:37.000 Like, so people, like, the progression would be like, oh, you work as a line cook for three to four years, and then, you know, then you're a sous chef for a number of years, and then you're a chef.

00:50:47.000 And, you know, there was a progression.

00:50:48.000 And then when the whole thing came along, and then it was everybody was like, From culinary school to chef.

00:50:57.000 They wanted to jump right into it.

00:50:59.000 And do you think there's a significant number of people that are actually getting into cooking to become famous?

00:51:07.000 There's something about it, yeah.

00:51:09.000 There's an allure.

00:51:10.000 I mean, it has a thing.

00:51:13.000 I don't know.

00:51:13.000 Not the term.

00:51:15.000 Famous is a little bit different.

00:51:16.000 I'd say, like, notoriety, in other words.

00:51:18.000 They're, like, ready to show, like, hey, I can do this.

00:51:21.000 But with cooking, there's a certain number of hours you just cannot avoid.

00:51:25.000 You have to put this in.

00:51:27.000 You have to have the knife in your hand for thousands and thousands of hours before cooking.

00:51:32.000 I think?

00:51:53.000 At 9 o'clock, if that customer wants it at 9 o'clock, not anything else.

00:51:57.000 I mean, there's...

00:51:58.000 So the more that you can get in terms of your toolbox, in terms of the use of the knife, I mean, cooking, I don't think about cooking when I'm doing it.

00:52:05.000 It's just only when I step back and reflect and I want to teach somebody, I say, oh, yeah, I do that.

00:52:10.000 Oh, I didn't notice that.

00:52:11.000 But because all of a sudden your hands start moving and...

00:52:14.000 Because it's all about heat.

00:52:16.000 So you're like, oh, I have heat on the side of the grill.

00:52:18.000 I know it's not on the grill grates, but I'm going to use it to cook the side of the steak.

00:52:21.000 I'm going to push it up against there.

00:52:23.000 How often do you teach people?

00:52:25.000 Anytime somebody asks, I love teaching it.

00:52:28.000 I mean, for me, I love to share my knowledge.

00:52:30.000 And I mean, I'm at a stage where, you know, it's like martial arts.

00:52:35.000 So I did Aikido for a while.

00:52:38.000 And what was amazing to me was the learning process for the black belt.

00:52:43.000 So you're a white belt, basically, until you're a black belt, pretty much.

00:52:46.000 I know there's a brown belt in there, but, you know...

00:52:48.000 When you're training, by teaching and explaining and slowing down, you get to reacquaint yourself with something that is so familiar.

00:52:59.000 So that movement might be functional, but now you're seeing someone else doing it.

00:53:04.000 It causes you to rethink it.

00:53:06.000 So when I'm teaching somebody, I'm actually learning.

00:53:09.000 Yeah, that happens.

00:53:10.000 That's a big part of this process that happens in jujitsu when people start teaching.

00:53:15.000 And I've never taught jujitsu, but I've seen it from a lot of my friends that have become teachers.

00:53:21.000 All of a sudden, their level jumps way up.

00:53:24.000 And there's the only thing that could be attributed to is that they're teaching people.

00:53:28.000 So because they're teaching people, they're going over the fine details that you would ordinarily, you just kind of have it in your head.

00:53:34.000 Like, you know, when you pass the guard, you put your knee here, you put your foot there.

00:53:37.000 It's normal.

00:53:37.000 You do it all the time.

00:53:38.000 But then when you're teaching someone, it solidifies the important points.

00:53:42.000 And almost all the great jujitsu practitioners are also great teachers.

00:53:47.000 It's key.

00:53:49.000 I totally relate to that correlation for me.

00:53:52.000 It gets you to really dial in on the minutiae of details and perfect yourself.

00:53:58.000 Well, not perfect yourself, but strive towards perfection.

00:54:00.000 The craft of cooking.

00:54:01.000 The craft of cooking.

00:54:02.000 And again, there's probably a dozen or more different styles, right?

00:54:07.000 Everyone's got their own way to sort of prepare things and do things.

00:54:12.000 There's definitely a core.

00:54:14.000 You'll have different schools of how you approach things.

00:54:16.000 You say, hey, one guy does it this way, one guy does it that way.

00:54:20.000 But I think the best thing that you can say is that I think about it as like, hey, you have a golf bag and you have all these different irons and woods and all these different things in there.

00:54:29.000 It's like...

00:54:31.000 The circumstance, the environment, it's going to dictate how you cook.

00:54:35.000 Not say, hey, I'm going to cook that steak and I'm going to use a cast iron pan.

00:54:38.000 It's like, well, I don't have a cast iron pan.

00:54:40.000 So what are you going to do?

00:54:40.000 It's like, well, I'm going to cook and I grill.

00:54:42.000 It's like, you don't have a grill.

00:54:43.000 It's like, okay.

00:54:46.000 What do I have?

00:54:47.000 It's like, you have this, this, and this. 0.78

00:54:49.000 So I only have this shitty steel pan here and doing like this.

00:54:55.000 You take a look at it and you adapt. 0.99

00:54:59.000 Is a steel pan shitty? 0.92

00:55:01.000 No, no, it's great. 0.97

00:55:03.000 I'm just saying the steel pans are great.

00:55:06.000 Blue steel, I use that all the time in the kitchen.

00:55:09.000 I like cast iron just in terms of the heat recovery that it has.

00:55:14.000 What does that mean?

00:55:16.000 Yeah, I think.

00:55:34.000 Water can start to develop underneath the steak and then it starts boiling or steaming and that's why you can't get a crust.

00:55:40.000 When you put in a steak into a cast iron pan, for example, and you can do a planche or whatever, the rate at which water is repelled is basically it steams or it goes away from the meat.

00:55:52.000 And so as a result, it then starts the browning and transforming the flavor rather than it boiling.

00:56:00.000 Because if you tasted a boiled piece of meat versus a Piece of meat with a crust, you'd say the piece of meat with a crust is a lot better.

00:56:09.000 So there's just something about it.

00:56:11.000 So the cast iron pan is basically when you put the steak in, the temperature is not even going to be moved because it's like a freight train.

00:56:19.000 It's just moving.

00:56:20.000 It's going to keep going.

00:56:21.000 But something like a thinner steel pan, if you put something big and cold into it, it's going to drop the temperature of the steel and then it has to recover not only with the steel but the mass of, let's say, a thick steak.

00:56:32.000 So it's got to compensate.

00:56:34.000 That's really why.

00:56:35.000 Now, I have a carbon steel pan that I sear steaks on all the time.

00:56:40.000 Most of the time the way I cook is I use a Traeger grill and I cook it very slow.

00:56:46.000 So I'll do it at 225 degrees and I do it until I hit an internal temperature about 125 and then I sear the outside.

00:56:55.000 That's been the method that I use.

00:56:56.000 Well, I'm going to just share my knowledge with you.

00:56:59.000 So I, you know, with cooking steaks, the term sear doesn't really, it's a misnomer.

00:57:06.000 There's only browning because like searing really only can happen when, you know, you have live flesh, so to speak.

00:57:11.000 So it doesn't actually happen like where it sears in or seals in juices.

00:57:16.000 What about like ahi tuna when they sear that?

00:57:18.000 Well, it's more like browning.

00:57:23.000 It's a terminology.

00:57:25.000 It's like keep searing.

00:57:26.000 I'm not telling you not to think like that.

00:57:28.000 No, I understand what you're saying.

00:57:29.000 The concept is it's browning.

00:57:30.000 It's not searing.

00:57:33.000 Bring me back on track.

00:57:35.000 Low temperature.

00:57:37.000 Okay, so for example, what I would tweak with you is like, I would say go to 265. You can have the same results in a quicker period of time with the same tenderness.

00:57:46.000 That ratio of speed is not going to impact your product.

00:57:51.000 So at the end of the day, 225, everybody says slow and low, but I'd say a lot of times like a bit hotter and a bit quicker is actually better for the crust development.

00:58:00.000 And also for the meat.

00:58:02.000 Because for the tenderness of the meat, let's say you have a thick, like a brisket, and it's got all this collagen in it, which is tightly wound protein.

00:58:11.000 I think about it as like a sponge that's dehydrated.

00:58:14.000 When you throw it on top of the water, it kind of floats, and then all of a sudden it catches and then soaks up the juice.

00:58:19.000 So when you're putting it in at that lower temperature, you're heating it up, you're causing the protein to squeeze out the liquid, and then if you're doing it at the right ratio, it's drinking.

00:58:30.000 The liquid into the collagen to turn into gelatin, which is that unctuous, beautiful mouthfeel that you'll get from a long-cooked piece of meat.

00:58:39.000 Now, if you get a long-cooked piece of meat, like a really well-done brisket, what temperature are you cooking that at?

00:58:45.000 Depending on the cooker that I'm using, but 265 is my typical dial-in.

00:58:51.000 So 265, you don't ever go lower than that for anything?

00:58:55.000 No.

00:58:55.000 I can if I want to get sleep, depending on my schedule.

00:58:58.000 In other words, I'm going to get relatively the same results, but less crust development from 225, depending on how I handle it.

00:59:06.000 Again, there's lots of little variables.

00:59:08.000 But by 265, I've found that for brisket, for example, it's the right ratio of that collagen drinking it up to get the gelatin and also the right crust development.

00:59:19.000 Yeah.

00:59:20.000 A lot of what I cook is wild game, like most of it.

00:59:23.000 Which is a lot leaner.

00:59:24.000 And so that's why I would go a little bit hotter.

00:59:28.000 Try it the next time.

00:59:29.000 You got nothing to lose.

00:59:30.000 So 265. Go 265 on it.

00:59:32.000 Okay.

00:59:32.000 And then how do you feel about that method of cooking it slowly and then browning the outside later?

00:59:38.000 I'm not a big fan of it because there's all these different compounds that are full.

00:59:42.000 It's not like – I mean they call it like a reverse sear.

00:59:46.000 That's like the terminology.

00:59:47.000 Right.

00:59:48.000 For me, there's nothing like a crust that is created, because what ends up happening is, it's like, you know, if you're cooking it slow, all these juices start to get pulled out, okay?

00:59:57.000 And they disappear, like the juice on the bag, make it into a sauce, or it gets evaporated into the air.

01:00:03.000 The thing about doing that is, is like, if you're putting it directly in the pan while it's wet, All those juices are bouncing back and then re-adhering to the meat.

01:00:12.000 Okay, that's flavor.

01:00:13.000 That's flavor you would lose normally.

01:00:15.000 Now, the sacrifice is like, sure, you'll get it cooked from end to end perfect.

01:00:20.000 Okay, so it'll be pink to pink.

01:00:21.000 Okay, it's great.

01:00:22.000 Right.

01:00:23.000 But if you go back and sear it or brown it after, you miss out on all these compounds, and it's not the same crust.

01:00:32.000 I bet you if I gave you a blind taste test using both methods, you would appreciate the other crust over the reverse sear.

01:00:40.000 And this is even with wild game, even with the very lean meat?

01:00:43.000 That's a different story.

01:00:44.000 That's what I cook, though.

01:00:45.000 Okay.

01:00:45.000 That's a different story.

01:00:47.000 So with the lean meat...

01:00:51.000 I would probably say to brown it first and then go slow, the reverse, because there is a gentle way of, like, it's so lean, you want to kind of like slide into home, I kind of say.

01:01:04.000 It's like you develop a certain amount of momentum, and for the leaner meats, it's about the rest.

01:01:09.000 So you're cooking it, and then you're taking it out, and then you're allowing that heat momentum to kind of carry over.

01:01:15.000 Now, I gave you a bunch of elk meat.

01:01:16.000 How did you cook it?

01:01:18.000 A lot of it just hot and fast so I can really taste it.

01:01:22.000 I don't mind a bit of a chew.

01:01:24.000 Most people are different.

01:01:25.000 For me, I want to taste the meat.

01:01:27.000 I want to savor the juices of what that is.

01:01:30.000 Elk's my favorite.

01:01:31.000 Thank you for that.

01:01:32.000 I still have some of it.

01:01:34.000 It's fantastic.

01:01:35.000 I got more if you want more.

01:01:36.000 Oh, I'll take it.

01:01:38.000 That's the best.

01:01:39.000 Well, I want to try some of the way you cook it.

01:01:42.000 I want to have you cook some of that elk.

01:01:44.000 I'd love to do that.

01:01:45.000 Yeah, we've got to make that happen one of these days.

01:01:47.000 I'd love to see your method and what the difference is.

01:01:50.000 I learned how to do it from Chad Ward.

01:01:52.000 He's a world champion barbecue guy.

01:01:55.000 Whiskey Bent Barbecue on Instagram.

01:01:58.000 Is it BBQ? Whiskey Bent BBQ, I think.

01:02:01.000 Chad's a great guy, and I've been with him in camp on several hunting trips where he's cooked for Traeger.

01:02:08.000 Traeger will hire him to come and cook for us, and it's incredible.

01:02:12.000 And that's the method that I learned from him is that reverse sear method.

01:02:18.000 And it's incredible.

01:02:19.000 I mean, you can go to all different chefs and they'll get to the same place taking different paths and they'll get there.

01:02:25.000 For me, it's like fishing.

01:02:26.000 You know, it's like, which fly?

01:02:28.000 Like, you know, which fly do you choose?

01:02:29.000 Like, fine, you know, whatever the hatch is.

01:02:31.000 But it's oftentimes, it's the fly that you believe in most that is going to catch the fish.

01:02:37.000 I mean, okay, I'm drawing a terrible analogy here.

01:02:39.000 I know what you're saying.

01:02:40.000 Confidence that you have in it.

01:02:41.000 Yeah, because confidence, you're going to fish it harder, you're going to believe in it, and, you know, you embrace it.

01:02:46.000 And a lot of that...

01:02:47.000 It has to do with success in cooking.

01:02:49.000 You have to believe in what you're doing.

01:02:52.000 Obviously, there's some metrics involved.

01:02:54.000 But a master like that guy, for example, I can't refute it.

01:02:58.000 At the end of the day, it's fantastic.

01:03:00.000 I get there a different way.

01:03:02.000 Maybe there's subtle differences.

01:03:03.000 Maybe mine's better.

01:03:04.000 Maybe it's not.

01:03:05.000 I don't care.

01:03:05.000 Well, I don't even think better is the way to put it.

01:03:07.000 That's right.

01:03:07.000 Exactly.

01:03:08.000 They're different.

01:03:08.000 And what do you prefer?

01:03:10.000 How do you feel about sous vide?

01:03:13.000 I think it has its place, but it's not the answer.

01:03:15.000 You know, for me, you know, certain types of proteins like shellfish, it's a godsend.

01:03:22.000 Shellfish?

01:03:23.000 Yes.

01:03:23.000 Lobster tails or shrimp or anything like that.

01:03:27.000 Because the protein there, it's so delicate.

01:03:29.000 And if you can go slow, like Thomas Keller has a fantastic recipe, butter poaching lobster tails in sous vide.

01:03:35.000 And it just cooks it so that it's super tender and it's not tough.

01:03:40.000 Oh, so you vacuum seal it with the butter?

01:03:42.000 With the butter.

01:03:43.000 And some aromatics.

01:03:44.000 I want to cook that right now.

01:03:45.000 That sounds incredible.

01:03:46.000 And then take it out.

01:03:47.000 You can kind of like toast it on the grill lightly or put it in a pan.

01:03:50.000 It's something else.

01:03:53.000 Yeah.

01:03:54.000 My friend Forrest Galante, he's a biologist and he goes off of Santa Barbara.

01:04:02.000 He goes out there and catches him.

01:04:05.000 So you've never done it with the butter and the...

01:04:08.000 No, no, I've never done it sous vide.

01:04:09.000 It's going to change your life.

01:04:11.000 Yeah, I've only done it on a grill.

01:04:12.000 I've only done it when it was delicious.

01:04:15.000 He gave me four lobster tails that he captured himself.

01:04:18.000 They were delicious.

01:04:19.000 But I cooked them on a grill.

01:04:20.000 I just followed a recipe that I found with butter and paprika and a couple different things.

01:04:25.000 Yeah, next time put that in a bag, seal it, follow the time sequence, take it out and then kiss it on the grill.

01:04:32.000 So what other shellfish is good?

01:04:35.000 Is scallops good?

01:04:36.000 Scallops is good.

01:04:37.000 Good with sous-vide, but for me, scallops, particularly if they're fresh, I'd rather just cook them in a pan.

01:04:46.000 There's something about that particular cell structure in the scallop that I want just charred in a pan and still just almost a bit raw.

01:04:55.000 There's a sweet spot with scallops, right?

01:04:57.000 Yeah, there's such a sweet spot.

01:04:58.000 And once you cross the line, it's just terrible.

01:05:00.000 Yeah, they get tough and weird and you kind of ruin it.

01:05:02.000 It's terrible.

01:05:03.000 How do you know when they're ready?

01:05:05.000 Well, for me, it's a feel.

01:05:08.000 And, you know, you want to kind of feel it so that, you know, when you touch it, it doesn't feel raw, but it starts to give it a slight spring, and then you pull it.

01:05:19.000 And then, like I said earlier, it's like you kind of like slide into home.

01:05:22.000 You let that residual heat and that temperature flow.

01:05:25.000 Kind of slowed down.

01:05:26.000 A lot of times, if you're going a bit fast, you take it and then you have some cold melted butter, not too cold, still a little bit liquid, and you cook it and then you just dunk it right into the butter and it just arrests the cooking.

01:05:38.000 And then you have it there and then the guests come and then all you have to do is just heat it up a little bit and then it goes.

01:05:46.000 It's not, though.

01:05:48.000 I'm sure.

01:05:49.000 But, I mean, it's like you've got to dial it in.

01:05:52.000 It depends on what you want, the end result.

01:05:55.000 So, you have guests coming over.

01:05:57.000 You want to enjoy your time with them.

01:05:59.000 You figure out little tricks, what you can get away with and what you can do.

01:06:03.000 My friend Tom Papa, who you met earlier, who's getting tested for COVID along with you, when he has been in here before, he brings this homemade sourdough bread that's just sensational.

01:06:14.000 I'm not a bread guy.

01:06:15.000 I don't eat a lot of bread.

01:06:15.000 I eat very little of it, in fact, especially now.

01:06:18.000 But when I eat his, like, my God, it's so good.

01:06:21.000 And he keeps saying, I'm getting better every time I do it. 1.00

01:06:25.000 I'm like, it's fucking bread. 0.99

01:06:26.000 No. 1.00

01:06:26.000 Are you getting better? 1.00

01:06:27.000 No, he's getting better.

01:06:28.000 I get it.

01:06:29.000 It's crazy. 1.00

01:06:29.000 I'm just being an asshole. 1.00

01:06:30.000 I know. 0.99

01:06:31.000 But he's my friend. 0.99

01:06:32.000 I'm just fucking around. 0.96

01:06:32.000 But it's similar in a lot of ways to your dry aging, too, because he has this starter, which is a living thing. 0.96

01:06:42.000 And his starter is, I don't know how many years old. 0.99

01:06:45.000 It's old as fuck, though. 0.97

01:06:46.000 But he's been using this same starter that he got from somebody else. 0.99

01:06:50.000 And just...

01:06:51.000 It brings soul to it.

01:06:52.000 It brings soul to the food for me.

01:06:55.000 And that connection that you have to the food is going to also make you care about it more while you cook it.

01:07:01.000 And it's not just a commodity where, okay, what are me 16 steaks in a box and bring it in?

01:07:07.000 I mean, you can push out food like that.

01:07:09.000 There's a place for that in this world.

01:07:11.000 Well, what I'm really hoping, really hoping, is that some sort of a rapid test for COVID, not even like the 15 minute one that we came, because I heard something about some saliva test that they're trying to develop that's extremely rapid. 0.98

01:07:27.000 That would be amazing if you could just test people right before they come into your restaurant and no one has to worry about shit. 0.99

01:07:32.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:07:33.000 We're gearing up for what the new world is going to be.

01:07:36.000 Yeah.

01:07:37.000 Temperature.

01:07:37.000 Everybody gets their temperature taken.

01:07:40.000 But that's not good enough.

01:07:41.000 See, the temperature thing is not good enough because if you're asymptomatic but you're still spreading it, why are we pretending? 1.00

01:07:47.000 That's avoiding science.

01:07:48.000 We need to find out whether or not people actually have it.

01:07:51.000 This temperature thing is just whether or not you're sick.

01:07:53.000 I know.

01:07:54.000 It doesn't mean you don't have it if your temperature is low.

01:07:58.000 It's real weird.

01:08:00.000 And that's what's going to be mandated on us.

01:08:03.000 I mean, there's a certain series of things that we're going to have to do.

01:08:08.000 Nobody knows for sure or whatnot, but who knows?

01:08:12.000 Well, at a certain point in time, I think we really need to make a decision as to whether or not we're just going to allow this to take over our world or whether we're going to do what we can do to protect the sick.

01:08:30.000 You know, if you're in contact with people that have a weakened immune system, you're gonna have to have a different life than someone who doesn't.

01:08:39.000 If you're a person with a weakened immune system, you're gonna have a different life.

01:08:42.000 If you're an older person, you're gonna have to have a different life.

01:08:45.000 But for the vast majority of us, we're gonna have to give people the freedom to make choices.

01:08:52.000 And to do what they want to do with their own life and their own health.

01:08:57.000 If you're giving people the freedom to eat terrible food, look, heart attacks are killing people as quickly as anything, right?

01:09:04.000 Cancer is killing people as quickly as anything.

01:09:07.000 Cigarettes kill a half a million people a year.

01:09:09.000 There's no government mandate.

01:09:11.000 It's trying to get people to stop smoking cigarettes.

01:09:13.000 In fact, there's not a single word ever spoken about it in presidential campaigns, in governor campaigns, congressional campaigns.

01:09:21.000 No one's out there trying to get people to stop smoking cigarettes, but yet it's killing a half a million people every year in this country alone.

01:09:28.000 We're so strange, and I understand.

01:09:32.000 Cigarettes is a choice in infectious diseases or not.

01:09:35.000 We're worried about protecting people who have these compromised immune systems.

01:09:40.000 But it's not most people.

01:09:42.000 The vast majority of people that are going to get this, it's not going to be fatal.

01:09:47.000 We have to figure out how to protect the people that are high risk.

01:09:51.000 But to quarantine the whole country, it just seems like maybe it was a good move to do initially, but we can't sustain that.

01:09:57.000 So now we have to figure out how to move forward.

01:10:00.000 And there's all these protests all over California now.

01:10:03.000 I'm sure you've seen it.

01:10:04.000 In Orange County and Huntington Beach, and there's counties in Northern California that are like, we're opening up everything.

01:10:11.000 We're going to open up restaurants.

01:10:12.000 We're opening up bars.

01:10:14.000 We're going back to business.

01:10:16.000 Texas is basically back to business.

01:10:18.000 Montana is doing the same, and they have a modified approach to dealing this, and we're going to have to figure it out on the long way.

01:10:27.000 But I just don't want us to lose...

01:10:30.000 I don't want us to lose any people, but I certainly don't want us to lose restaurants either.

01:10:34.000 I don't want us to lose bars.

01:10:35.000 I don't want us to lose comedy clubs.

01:10:36.000 I don't want us to lose small businesses that are crippled by this.

01:10:40.000 What is the world even going to look like?

01:10:40.000 I mean, here we are, like, you know, you talk about a comedy club.

01:10:44.000 Like, how do you even, like, okay, six feet apart and then there's a certain energy in the room.

01:10:50.000 Like, what type of world do we have, you know, in front of us the way it's slated right now?

01:10:54.000 I don't even know.

01:10:55.000 What kind of government overreach are we going to have where people are going to come in and police this?

01:11:02.000 There's no real science to that either, by the way.

01:11:04.000 They have a bunch of people jammed into a room whether six feet apart or not.

01:11:07.000 You're touching things.

01:11:09.000 You're breathing on each other.

01:11:11.000 I mean, I don't...

01:11:11.000 I don't know.

01:11:12.000 I think you should allow people to do what they want to do.

01:11:15.000 You know, if it gets to a certain point where we have some sort of a viable cure or a treatment, like there's this...

01:11:22.000 What is that stuff called again?

01:11:24.000 This antiviral medication that Dr. Fauci has been...

01:11:28.000 Remdesivir.

01:11:29.000 Yeah, remdesivir.

01:11:30.000 How do you say it?

01:11:30.000 I mean, boy...

01:11:32.000 We're hoping for that, right?

01:11:34.000 We're hoping that there's some sort of a treatment where it's not a death sentence for people even with immune compromised systems.

01:11:40.000 So, I mean, I just, I feel so bad for people like you and for all the people out there that own these amazing restaurants that it's one of my favorite things to do is to go to a nice restaurant.

01:11:55.000 And for me to go to work.

01:11:57.000 Yes.

01:11:58.000 It'd be such a shame if because of this pandemic, all that goes away.

01:12:05.000 I mean, and what kind of a buildup are we looking at to try to bring those places back?

01:12:10.000 Yeah.

01:12:12.000 You know, I don't have the answers.

01:12:14.000 You know, for me...

01:12:15.000 What can be done if you had a magic wand?

01:12:19.000 What would you do?

01:12:21.000 If someone said, Adam, fix this.

01:12:26.000 It's difficult for me because, you know, I hear your point, but I have just such great empathy for, you know, people that would get sick just by someone else's negligence.

01:12:35.000 And for me, it's a bit of a tussle here because, you know, I want to just, you know, on one hand, you have like an economy that is just tanking and businesses that are going to go out of, you know, business.

01:12:48.000 But then on the other hand, you know, you have...

01:12:51.000 Some people that are defenseless, some people that look healthy, fantastic, like a friend, 45 years old, goes in, and they're on a ventilator, and it's just like you can't give the answers.

01:13:04.000 I don't know if I'm even prepared to give you a summary on it.

01:13:07.000 I haven't formulated in my brain the way that I've just been coping, and that's all.

01:13:12.000 I'm just trying to hold on.

01:13:16.000 For me, I'm just trying to put faith in the fact that people have to eat and people like you really want to have restaurants around.

01:13:24.000 And in the end, we're going to find our way.

01:13:27.000 And the only way I know to get through this is just to head down and work and be really helpful to people that are in need and be there for the community and feed them.

01:13:37.000 But outside of that, I I don't know.

01:13:42.000 God, like if I had the...

01:13:44.000 I don't know how to answer you.

01:13:47.000 Yeah, nobody knows.

01:13:48.000 That's what's crazy.

01:13:49.000 Even if I was in control, I mean, you know, because I don't want people to die unnecessarily by people's negligence.

01:13:55.000 But on the other hand, I just don't know.

01:13:58.000 Well, it's such an incredibly messy situation with no clear-cut answer because of the fact that you do have these people that are seemingly healthy, 35-year-old people that are getting it and dying.

01:14:07.000 And it doesn't make sense.

01:14:08.000 And then you have, you know, you hear, oh, guy, World War II veteran, 102 years old, beats COVID. You know, like, you see that, too.

01:14:15.000 So it's like, what...

01:14:17.000 How do I think about this?

01:14:19.000 Do I think about it like the common cold?

01:14:21.000 Do I think about it like the flu?

01:14:22.000 Do I think about it like some new thing?

01:14:24.000 I mean, everyone is unsure, and that's what makes it so strange.

01:14:28.000 I think the key is for us to get a vaccine as quick as possible so that we can get it, at least have some type of defense for this.

01:14:39.000 And I don't know how long that's going to take.

01:14:41.000 People are talking a ridiculous amount of time, but...

01:14:45.000 Well, it takes a long time to develop a vaccine correctly.

01:14:47.000 I mean, they're going through a bunch of trials right now.

01:14:50.000 We've talked about it before.

01:14:51.000 There's several ongoing, including ones with human beings that they're testing the vaccine on.

01:14:57.000 There was a woman in Seattle. 0.98

01:14:58.000 She was the first ever person to receive this coronavirus vaccine.

01:15:02.000 They did a story on her and they're monitoring her.

01:15:06.000 Because that's the only way for us to be sure.

01:15:08.000 I mean, because responsibly.

01:15:11.000 I mean, even just people coming into the restaurant.

01:15:13.000 Like, don't get me wrong.

01:15:14.000 I want the business.

01:15:15.000 I want to have a bar that's bustling.

01:15:17.000 I want to have a vibe.

01:15:17.000 I want people to be happy, well-fed, enjoy themselves.

01:15:22.000 Right, not be nervous.

01:15:24.000 Not be nervous.

01:15:24.000 Someone coughs and everybody freaks out.

01:15:26.000 Yeah, servers have masks on.

01:15:28.000 So now, all of a sudden, we can't have music because people can't hear the server.

01:15:32.000 And there's...

01:15:34.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:15:36.000 Nobody used to give a shit. 0.98

01:15:37.000 They would shake hands. 0.97

01:15:38.000 It's weird.

01:15:38.000 You see people shake hands in a movie now, and you're like, oh, what are you doing?

01:15:41.000 I know.

01:15:42.000 You just get twitchy about it.

01:15:44.000 Yeah.

01:15:44.000 It happened so quickly, too.

01:15:46.000 That's what's weird.

01:15:47.000 The whole world shifted so rapidly.

01:15:50.000 Yeah.

01:15:51.000 And people like you are the ones, I mean, obviously the people that get hit the hardest of the people, A, with the disease and B, that work with people with the disease, right?

01:15:59.000 The people that have the disease and then the first responders and hospital workers and all the different people that work to help those people, they're the most devastated by this.

01:16:11.000 But there are so many small businesses right now that are in this position that you're in where there's so much uncertainty.

01:16:19.000 The key is going to be the rent game.

01:16:21.000 I mean, at the end of the day, for a lot of these business, that's the looming factor, is being on the hook.

01:16:28.000 Not only just to make rent the following month with a compromised 50% occupancy, if you can imagine.

01:16:36.000 If you're paying rent for that, you have a model in terms of how much income.

01:16:40.000 Someone brought out the possibility of instead of forgiving the rent, taking the rent and putting it on the back end of it.

01:16:49.000 So right now, essentially, for the three months, you don't need to pay the rent, but you'll be at on three months to the end of your lease.

01:17:00.000 That, for me, makes sense.

01:17:03.000 But for us to turn around and work at 10%, 15% capacity and then all of a sudden get a bill for six figures, say, okay, you owe this.

01:17:11.000 So who's going to fill my shoes?

01:17:14.000 So if I can't make it at my location, who's going to come along and take on that rent anyway?

01:17:18.000 Nobody's going to do it.

01:17:19.000 So they're stuck.

01:17:20.000 We're stuck.

01:17:21.000 What are we going to do?

01:17:22.000 Right.

01:17:22.000 It's almost like the deficit that gets established is insurmountable for someone to come on and start from scratch.

01:17:31.000 How much...

01:17:33.000 I mean, you started that restaurant how long ago?

01:17:35.000 We have a two-year anniversary and I guess it's in four days.

01:17:39.000 So I must have found out about it right after you opened.

01:17:41.000 Yeah.

01:17:43.000 How long did it take to prepare to open up that restaurant?

01:17:49.000 God, if you want to include looking for a space and trying to find the right location, it's a couple of years.

01:17:54.000 So a couple years of preparation and then how long does it take to actually develop the space and set it up correctly?

01:18:01.000 What was it before you guys were there?

01:18:03.000 It was an empty space.

01:18:04.000 I mean, it was a project, you know, built from scratch.

01:18:06.000 So, you know, going through just the permitting process in L.A. and just going through everything.

01:18:10.000 You know, you have to hire so many consultants and people in between to get things through.

01:18:14.000 It's a lot different than New York.

01:18:17.000 So, I mean, for us, we were delayed, like every project is delayed.

01:18:21.000 I mean, it took us over a year to build it out.

01:18:24.000 And, you know, you're just like, let's open already, because each day that passes, you know, you're losing money.

01:18:29.000 And when you do something like this, were you working as a chef in another place while you were doing this?

01:18:35.000 No.

01:18:36.000 I was just basically living off of the proceeds from the sale of my business that I had in London and other projects.

01:18:45.000 And you just kind of like, as an entrepreneur, you're just putting it into the restaurant, hoping it opens as quick as you can, and then you have your cash flow. 0.93

01:18:55.000 God, the fucking opening up a business like that must be so insanely stressful. 0.89

01:19:00.000 Yeah, because especially not inheriting an existing restaurant. 0.99

01:19:05.000 For me, it's like, wow, I really believe in the area.

01:19:07.000 I love Hollywood and Vine.

01:19:08.000 It gave me a certain activity in the area.

01:19:12.000 It gave me a New York vibe.

01:19:13.000 I really love the energy.

01:19:15.000 Yeah, so I love the historic building.

01:19:18.000 It was built in 1923. It was LA's first skyscraper.

01:19:21.000 You know, it was a whole story.

01:19:22.000 Like as chefs and restaurateurs, we get romantic about it.

01:19:25.000 We get connected to the story, to what it is.

01:19:29.000 And sometimes it overrides the sensibility of, you know, building it out.

01:19:34.000 But, you know, you invest in it and you want it to work out and it works out.

01:19:38.000 It's great.

01:19:39.000 But it's a lot of work and it's a long road to get there.

01:19:42.000 That whole area seemed before this like it was experiencing a resurgence.

01:19:47.000 Like it was like super shady just about 10 years ago.

01:19:50.000 Yeah.

01:19:51.000 A lot of development, you know, I think that over the course of like the past, like within five years and two years, like six billion in development of buildings and hotels.

01:19:59.000 And there's a revitalization project that's taking place on Hollywood Boulevard that's going to extend the sidewalks and make it almost prominent on like.

01:20:08.000 And, you know, I think that, you know, If any place in L.A. should be that kind of place, it should be there.

01:20:16.000 I mean, I saw the revitalization in Times Square, for example.

01:20:20.000 You know, as a kid, like, don't walk down the street and don't go there.

01:20:24.000 And now it's Disney, you know.

01:20:26.000 It's a whole other world.

01:20:27.000 It's so weird there now.

01:20:28.000 Well, now it's really weird.

01:20:30.000 But before the pandemic, it was...

01:20:32.000 It's like it became a mall.

01:20:34.000 It became a mall.

01:20:35.000 It's crazy.

01:20:36.000 And, you know...

01:20:37.000 It was the dirtiest place in all of New York.

01:20:40.000 It was horrible.

01:20:40.000 I've only been there a couple of times back in the day, back in the 90s before it got cleaned up.

01:20:45.000 But I remember it was not a place I wanted to stop.

01:20:49.000 Yeah.

01:20:49.000 70s and 80s, I remember my dad sitting down and was like, okay, you don't walk down the street and you always look as if you're carrying something.

01:20:58.000 You always look like you walk as if you're carrying a knife or something.

01:21:02.000 This is a 12, 13-year-old kid, you know?

01:21:04.000 Yeah.

01:21:05.000 Oh my god.

01:21:06.000 How do you walk like you're carrying a knife?

01:21:08.000 Really confident, like, that you can handle yourself and, you know, and not, you know, not look like a victim.

01:21:15.000 Remember the thing they would do in the movies where a guy would pretend to have a knife or pretend to have a gun in his pocket?

01:21:20.000 Over a scarf.

01:21:22.000 Yeah, nobody does that anymore.

01:21:23.000 Like, to have the gun in the pocket move?

01:21:25.000 That was, that sort of, that went away with quicksand.

01:21:29.000 Yeah.

01:21:29.000 Like, people start talking about those things.

01:21:31.000 Yeah.

01:21:31.000 When you first came out here, was that the first place that you opened?

01:21:36.000 Have you had a restaurant in LA before?

01:21:38.000 No, I did a series of pop-ups.

01:21:40.000 So for me, there was a huge lot by Jimmy Kimmel's show and I basically took a 5,000 square foot space and I built it out.

01:21:49.000 I have You know, a whole barbecue trailer on a tractor trailer.

01:21:53.000 So I have a 1,000-gallon propane tank that was custom-welded by Aaron Franklin in Austin.

01:21:58.000 He's amazing.

01:21:59.000 One of the top, top...

01:21:59.000 Franklin's Barbecue, that guy?

01:22:00.000 Yeah.

01:22:01.000 Top barbecue or top fabricator.

01:22:04.000 He's got some great YouTube videos.

01:22:05.000 Oh, he's tremendous.

01:22:07.000 And, you know, aside from, like...

01:22:09.000 The videos in terms of teaching people.

01:22:10.000 He's just a great down-to-earth guy.

01:22:12.000 He's fantastic.

01:22:13.000 Seems like it.

01:22:13.000 Yeah, he's tremendous.

01:22:15.000 So I just created just kind of like an homage to barbecue, to doing it right.

01:22:22.000 I had a little Airstream.

01:22:23.000 I slept in the parking lot cooking it overnight, served only lunch.

01:22:27.000 You know, everybody got the same thing.

01:22:29.000 So I did that for about four years before I opened up the restaurant.

01:22:33.000 How do you know Jimmy?

01:22:34.000 I did a show back in 2008. We hit it off right away.

01:22:38.000 And after the show, we were like, hey, you want a barbecue?

01:22:41.000 So then we ended up hanging out the weekend.

01:22:43.000 And he's into fly fishing.

01:22:45.000 We're into the same stuff.

01:22:48.000 We just became great friends.

01:22:49.000 So you actually are into fly fishing.

01:22:51.000 So you're talking about it not just as an analogy.

01:22:53.000 Oh, I'm obsessed with it.

01:22:55.000 Really?

01:22:55.000 Where do you go?

01:22:56.000 I'm obsessed with it.

01:22:57.000 Anywhere and anywhere, but a good majority of the places, places that I love, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming.

01:23:04.000 Are you one of those catch-and-release guys?

01:23:06.000 Absolutely, 100%.

01:23:07.000 How weird is that, though?

01:23:08.000 It's not if you look at it as just a system and environment.

01:23:12.000 We talk about this process thing.

01:23:15.000 It's like fly fishing.

01:23:18.000 It's the one thing you can invest your time in and you can do into a very old age.

01:23:21.000 So if you're lifting weights, there's a certain point where you're just going to stop.

01:23:26.000 But fly fishing, you can really invest your time into.

01:23:28.000 And there's just something about all the different facets of it that are absolutely amazing.

01:23:36.000 Gosh, I lost my track from thinking about it.

01:23:39.000 Well, I did a lot of fly fishing when I was a kid.

01:23:42.000 Oh, really?

01:23:43.000 Yeah.

01:23:43.000 Where did you go?

01:23:44.000 Boston.

01:23:45.000 I mostly did it on ponds and lakes.

01:23:47.000 Oh, cool.

01:23:47.000 So like largemouth bass and stuff?

01:23:49.000 Yeah, I did a lot of fishing, but I did a lot of fly fishing as well.

01:23:52.000 How much better, though, is the take on a popper, on a fly rod of a largemouth bass, you know?

01:23:56.000 It's fun, but I also like topwater baits with a casting rod, a casting reel, a spinning tackle.

01:24:05.000 I like a lot of different fishing.

01:24:07.000 But fly fishing is for people who think fishing is too easy.

01:24:13.000 No, okay, this is what you had asked me to say, the catch and release thing.

01:24:16.000 So it's kind of like creating a sustainable culture and environment that gets passed on for generations.

01:24:22.000 Because there's so much more than just catching the fish.

01:24:25.000 It's that moment in time when you completely block out, you turn your phones off, or most of the time you're out of range.

01:24:30.000 You're with a fishing buddy, and you're almost like parallel playing, and you're sitting there, and you focus on a certain riff in the water, and you start casting to it, and you start figuring out what's going on.

01:24:43.000 And there's just some real beauty in the whole process of it that...

01:24:47.000 To me, it's like shooting an elk with a suction cup at the end of the arrow and the elk runs off like, I got him!

01:24:52.000 He's running off with a suction cup arrow that's going to drop off and he's going to be unharmed.

01:24:57.000 It's just weird.

01:24:58.000 I have done catch and release before.

01:25:00.000 I just state that.

01:25:01.000 But when I think about it, when I spend time alone thinking about it, I'm like, why am I doing this? 1.00

01:25:07.000 I'm putting a hook through this fucking fish's head. 1.00

01:25:09.000 Why don't I just leave that poor fish alone unless I want to eat him? 1.00

01:25:13.000 I like catching fish and then eating them.

01:25:16.000 That's my favorite thing to do.

01:25:17.000 So maybe I should just stick to that.

01:25:19.000 Well, maybe.

01:25:20.000 For me, trout doesn't really eat that well.

01:25:23.000 What doesn't eat well?

01:25:24.000 Trout doesn't eat well.

01:25:25.000 How dare you?

01:25:26.000 It doesn't.

01:25:26.000 Who are you?

01:25:27.000 You're a chef.

01:25:29.000 Yeah, no, it's true.

01:25:29.000 How can you say such a thing?

01:25:31.000 Don't you think there's a method to cook trout perfectly where it's delicious?

01:25:35.000 I've had trout in restaurants before, and it was excellent.

01:25:38.000 I'm not saying it's not delicious, but I am saying that there's so many other fish out there.

01:25:42.000 That are better.

01:25:43.000 That are better, and most of the fish I like to eat more rare and raw.

01:25:48.000 For me, it's more flavor.

01:25:51.000 But the trout for me, I don't know, like at this point, it's like a sacrilege to kill a trout.

01:25:56.000 I mean, I just identify with it, just that whole process.

01:25:59.000 Well, trout tastes better than largemouth bass.

01:26:01.000 Oh, yeah.

01:26:02.000 And I've caught and released largemouth bass before.

01:26:05.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:26:06.000 Yeah, because they're in a pond and it's this stagnant water.

01:26:08.000 It's swampy.

01:26:09.000 I've tasted them.

01:26:11.000 It is weird that, you know, that is a factor, the swampy water.

01:26:15.000 Because smallmouth bass, I've eaten, it tastes much better.

01:26:19.000 Oh, yeah.

01:26:20.000 I liken it the same thing to my dry age room with that concept is that, you know, if you don't have that free-flowing air and that kind of that oxygen in the room, it has an impact on flavor.

01:26:30.000 If you have like a swampy, wet environment, it's going to impact the beef.

01:26:34.000 I think about that all the time.

01:26:35.000 But here's the monkey wrench in that theory.

01:26:38.000 Catfish.

01:26:39.000 Catfish is delicious.

01:26:40.000 It's delicious, but if you have a catfish from a pond, it's not as delicious.

01:26:45.000 So like river catfish is what you want because it's flowing water?

01:26:49.000 Probably.

01:26:49.000 I mean, I've had catfish that is just absolutely phenomenal, but I've also had catfish that was kind of muddy.

01:26:56.000 Right, right.

01:26:57.000 And there's different methods that people use to try to get rid of that muddy.

01:27:00.000 I've seen people soak them in milk.

01:27:03.000 I've heard people even soaking them in Coca-Cola, which is really weird.

01:27:06.000 I've never heard that.

01:27:07.000 I've heard milk.

01:27:07.000 I've heard buttermilk breaks it down a little bit.

01:27:11.000 But then again, if you're going to fry anything with buttermilk and crust, then you could have cardboard in there.

01:27:16.000 It tastes good.

01:27:16.000 Oh, really?

01:27:17.000 Yeah, right.

01:27:18.000 It's like the spices and the crust is what you're eating more than the actual flavor of the flesh itself.

01:27:23.000 Yeah, last time I entertained fly-fishing, I haven't done it in years, but last time I entertained it, I was with my family.

01:27:31.000 We were in Montana.

01:27:32.000 We were taking a whitewater rafting trip down the Gallatin River, which is really fun.

01:27:37.000 But as we're going there, there was all these guys that were fly-fishing, and they seemed like the most peaceful people in the world.

01:27:44.000 Just casting and just...

01:27:47.000 Slowly manipulating this and then they were catching these these trout and then just gently catching them and then releasing them And we have a group of guys that we do this with.

01:27:57.000 We travel around.

01:27:57.000 There's maybe about eight to ten of us where we'll go and we'll go on a trip together.

01:28:03.000 Jimmy Kimmel does this with you?

01:28:04.000 Oh, yeah.

01:28:05.000 Oh, he is obsessed with fly fishing.

01:28:09.000 We are both.

01:28:10.000 It's just a whole journey.

01:28:11.000 We log the trips.

01:28:12.000 We talk about what was caught.

01:28:14.000 Do you rather tie your own flies?

01:28:17.000 Um, I've done it, but, um, I don't do it now.

01:28:20.000 I mean, with the restaurant, the way it is, you know, it's, it's always just so time consuming and now that they make such beautiful patterns, but there is maybe the next level.

01:28:30.000 Like when I retire, quote unquote, you know, like delve into, I have like a whole mailbox desk with all like the hackle and the everything there, but it's just sitting there.

01:28:40.000 You know how you talk about how making your own knives is like another level.

01:28:45.000 I would imagine that tying your own fly and then catching like a large trout.

01:28:50.000 It's that whole process to lead up to.

01:28:52.000 You have a pattern or it's even just like, what are they eating?

01:28:56.000 Seeing what's hatching coming off and matching the hatch.

01:28:59.000 The temperature of the water, the water levels, the speed.

01:29:03.000 Like the first thing we check before we go on a trip is, What are the water levels?

01:29:08.000 What's the water flow like?

01:29:10.000 Because if it's going too fast, the trout are getting all the dirt, everything hitting them in the face.

01:29:18.000 But there's a certain level where you look for where it's best for...

01:29:23.000 So it's always like, okay, what are the conditions like?

01:29:25.000 You go through it.

01:29:26.000 So it's like a whole process before the lead-in.

01:29:29.000 How did you start?

01:29:31.000 I've always loved fishing like any kind, deep sea, anything as a kid.

01:29:36.000 It was my escape since I was a little kid.

01:29:38.000 But I think that I always looked at fly fishing as the higher level.

01:29:45.000 I always aspired.

01:29:47.000 I remember being on the Delaware River and I was at camp and there was a guy just underneath a bridge and he just kind of picked up...

01:29:56.000 20, 30 yards of line.

01:29:57.000 He just laid it down and I was up at high level and I just saw the fish come up and bite it.

01:30:01.000 And I was just like, I was just like, whoa, you know, just like blew me away.

01:30:06.000 And then from that point on, I always wanted to.

01:30:08.000 And then I bought my first fly rod and, um, they always remember your, you know, you always remember your first fly rod.

01:30:13.000 I still have it.

01:30:16.000 And it just started the obsession there.

01:30:18.000 There's just something about the connection to the fish and the whole thing as opposed to just kind of like going on a boat and trolling and waiting for them to strike.

01:30:27.000 Like this is more like hunting.

01:30:28.000 What you're doing is it's like you're trying to find the location of the fish and then you have to place the fly and you have to like let it drift without any drag and it's like this combination of skill and intuition and And hunting, that's the excitement,

01:30:44.000 whereas just catching and throwing meat in the thing, okay, I mean, I've done it and I still do it.

01:30:48.000 I like being on the water, but fly fishing is just like this higher level thing.

01:30:53.000 Do you do any kind of fishing with lures other than fly fishing?

01:30:56.000 Do you ever, like...

01:30:57.000 Not really.

01:30:58.000 And I can't even – like there's so much social pressure amongst my group anyway because they get on me because most of the guys are dry – like Jimmy is like dry fly only.

01:31:09.000 Like even if like no fish – We should explain dry flies or flies that float on the surface.

01:31:13.000 Float on the surface.

01:31:14.000 It's like the epitome of like delicate presentation.

01:31:17.000 And then underneath, you can – Basically you follow like the life cycle of an insect.

01:31:24.000 So the eggs go to the bottom and then the larva comes up and it kind of floats to the surface and then it pops open and it flies away.

01:31:34.000 Most of the fish eat all the food that's subsurface, so before it even gets to the surface.

01:31:39.000 So their eyes are like straight down.

01:31:41.000 When the conditions are right, The trout are looking up because the hatch happens.

01:31:45.000 So that's when all the bugs are coming up.

01:31:47.000 And the take is you see the fish and it's more dramatic.

01:31:51.000 Jimmy is like straight up dry fly fisherman.

01:31:56.000 And it all comes from one of our mentors in this is Huey Lewis.

01:32:00.000 Huey Lewis in the news?

01:32:02.000 Yes.

01:32:02.000 Really?

01:32:03.000 He's one of our group.

01:32:06.000 Hip to be square Huey Lewis?

01:32:07.000 Yep, 100%.

01:32:08.000 He lives in Montana and he is like, we talk about every year fishing on the Bitterroot for the Swallow Hatch, which is a certain kind of almost like a salmon fly.

01:32:18.000 It's very large.

01:32:19.000 And when these things come up and hatch, like fish are huge and they're hitting and jumping out of the water.

01:32:25.000 It's very dramatic.

01:32:26.000 Wow.

01:32:27.000 And does everybody catch and release or does any, do you ever run into people that catch them and cook them?

01:32:33.000 Not in our group.

01:32:34.000 It's very looked down upon?

01:32:36.000 Huge.

01:32:37.000 I mean, even me, they tease me because if they're not biting on the flies, I'll drop a bead head, which is underneath the fly.

01:32:47.000 And so it's kind of like, they call it bobber fishing.

01:32:50.000 You're cheating?

01:32:51.000 Cheating.

01:32:52.000 They call it down and dirty, as opposed to on the surface. 0.99

01:32:56.000 That's so silly. 0.98

01:32:57.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:32:58.000 Isn't it crazy?

01:32:59.000 Sometimes I just want to see a fish at the end.

01:33:02.000 Listen, there's bow hunters.

01:33:03.000 You know, I bow hunt and there's bow hunters that also rifle hunt.

01:33:06.000 And then there's bow hunters that look at rifle hunters like it's like legalized poaching.

01:33:10.000 Yep.

01:33:10.000 Like, what are you doing?

01:33:12.000 You're using a rifle on an animal?

01:33:14.000 Same thing.

01:33:15.000 But then there's other people that have a really good ethical argument for that.

01:33:18.000 Like, hey, if I am at 200 yards and I see an elk or a deer and I squeeze that trigger, that is a dead animal 100% of the time.

01:33:27.000 It's a huge responsibility.

01:33:28.000 Not 100%.

01:33:29.000 It's not even 100%, but it's very high 90s.

01:33:32.000 Yeah.

01:33:33.000 Yeah.

01:33:33.000 That's a huge responsibility for the animal.

01:33:36.000 I mean, you want the animal just to not suffer.

01:33:40.000 Well, it's also...

01:33:41.000 There's something about the difficulty factor of bow hunting.

01:33:44.000 It's very effective when the arrow hits the animal.

01:33:47.000 The animals die like...

01:33:49.000 They could die as quick, if not quicker, than a rifle with a well-placed arrow because they bleed so quickly.

01:33:54.000 It goes through the vitals and they're done in seconds.

01:33:59.000 It's harder to do, and it requires an immense amount of discipline and dedication.

01:34:05.000 And I'm sure fly fishing requires some, but with bow hunting, you literally have to practice every day.

01:34:11.000 I mean, you think you saw in the back, I have an archery range in the garage back there where you see there's a 45-yard range, and I shoot arrows every day.

01:34:19.000 I love it.

01:34:20.000 I have a bow, too.

01:34:21.000 I've never gone hunting.

01:34:22.000 P.S.C. Oh, I have a P.S.C. Yeah, it's beautiful.

01:34:25.000 It's a great bow.

01:34:26.000 I went down with my friend, Glenn Jonas.

01:34:28.000 He took me down.

01:34:29.000 He's a hunter.

01:34:30.000 He's like, this is what you get, and I got it.

01:34:33.000 And I don't get enough practice in.

01:34:34.000 I've never gone hunting with it.

01:34:37.000 Yeah, it's not something I recommend.

01:34:39.000 I wanted to, though.

01:34:42.000 I have friends that want to do it.

01:34:44.000 They're like, I want to go bow hunting with you.

01:34:45.000 I'm like, no, you don't.

01:34:46.000 If you did, you'd be out there practicing every day.

01:34:49.000 It's a thing that once you realize what's at stake, how difficult it is to do, how much respect you have to have for the art of archery, and how much effort has to be put into the discipline.

01:35:03.000 Most people don't want to do that.

01:35:04.000 If you really want to hunt your own meat, and this is one of the things that's come up during this pandemic, because people are really scared about the food supply, and they're scared about not having food in their home that they can rely upon.

01:35:15.000 And also, before that, there was this whole thing about gathering organic meat.

01:35:20.000 People were worried about...

01:35:21.000 The source of the meat.

01:35:23.000 They were worried about animals that weren't treated correctly and factory farming and all the different things that people should be concerned about.

01:35:29.000 And the ultimate solution to that is get an animal that's in the wild.

01:35:33.000 This animal's been living the way they've been living for hundreds of thousands of years.

01:35:39.000 And you stealthily make your way through their world, get yourself into a position, and then through hard work and dedication and understanding, take an animal ethically.

01:35:52.000 Yep.

01:35:52.000 I'm with you on that.

01:35:53.000 Yeah.

01:35:54.000 I think it's great.

01:35:55.000 And also I love the responsibility you take for it.

01:35:59.000 It's like some people don't understand hunting.

01:36:01.000 They think it's just a bunch of yahoos going out there. 1.00

01:36:03.000 And some maybe are.

01:36:04.000 But the people that I know that take it seriously...

01:36:07.000 You know, take a huge responsibility with it.

01:36:10.000 The people that I know that do it, that take a huge responsibility, they're some of the best people I've ever met in my life.

01:36:15.000 And the most dedicated.

01:36:17.000 And the kind of hunting that I do, which is western mountain elk hunting, requires physical fitness.

01:36:24.000 It requires incredible stamina because you're...

01:36:26.000 You're going, gaining and losing thousands of feet of elevation in a day.

01:36:31.000 You might trek 15, 20 miles every day.

01:36:34.000 I mean, you have to be fit and you have to be ready.

01:36:36.000 And then you have to be able to keep your nerves.

01:36:39.000 And then that final moment, you know, it's like...

01:36:43.000 Yeah, you could hunt for 10 days for one moment.

01:36:45.000 So you're hunting for 10 days for 15 seconds.

01:36:48.000 It's profound.

01:36:49.000 The build-up, it's amazing. 1.00

01:36:51.000 Yeah, you've got to keep your shit together. 1.00

01:36:54.000 It's hard. 1.00

01:36:54.000 And there's no catch and release. 1.00

01:36:56.000 No catch and release in bow hunting.

01:36:58.000 But when I sit down and I feed my family...

01:37:01.000 The code, though, if you really look at it, I mean, if you just focus on the catch and release or whatever, but there's a code to it, I mean, you get it.

01:37:09.000 I believe in that.

01:37:11.000 Yeah, the code, the difference between bow hunting and regular hunting versus regular fishing and fly fishing.

01:37:17.000 But even just regular hunting and bow hunting, I'm just saying you're hunting with guys that have an ethical responsibility, understand the environment, and follow the rules.

01:37:29.000 And I think that...

01:37:30.000 Yeah.

01:37:31.000 That's amazing.

01:37:32.000 Well, it's also...

01:37:33.000 The thing to consider is there's millions, in fact, billions of dollars every year that go into wildlife habitat, go into preservation.

01:37:44.000 All the different people that work as game wardens are all paid by this.

01:37:49.000 And this is all money that's taken from hunting licenses...

01:37:54.000 The Pickman-Robertson Act, they take a certain percentage of, I think it's 10%, of all the proceeds from ammunition sales, licenses, equipment, all that stuff goes to preservation.

01:38:07.000 And it actually is the number one...

01:38:12.000 The source, the number one source for economics in terms of financial, the amount of resources that go to managing these areas and keeping these animals healthy and monitoring them and monitoring their populations and even reintroducing different animals like Rocky Mountain sheep and all these different animals,

01:38:33.000 elk, that get introduced into all these different places.

01:38:36.000 All that money comes from hunting.

01:38:39.000 And it's crazy to think that at one point in time, most of the animals in North America that we hunt on a regular basis were on the verge of extinction, including white-tailed deer, which is crazy to think if you live in a place that has white-tailed deer because there's so many of them, it's insane.

01:38:54.000 But there's more white-tailed deer today than there were when Columbus landed.

01:38:58.000 It's really, really weird.

01:39:00.000 And this is an incredible system.

01:39:03.000 The wildlife management system that's in place in North America, including the management of public lands and the access to public lands, is a truly special place.

01:39:13.000 It's truly special here in North America, and that is because of the people that love hunting and love these wild areas.

01:39:20.000 Yeah, it makes sense.

01:39:21.000 I mean, I love it.

01:39:21.000 The sustainability factor is everything.

01:39:23.000 And I think that's also why the catch and release thing is.

01:39:25.000 I mean, if everybody kept everything that they caught, there's just not enough in that environment to pull.

01:39:33.000 No, I understand.

01:39:33.000 And people say that about hunting, too, that if everybody went out and hunted, there wouldn't be animals left, which is really true.

01:39:41.000 But everyone's not going to do it.

01:39:43.000 That's like saying, if everybody became a marathon runner, those streets would be filled.

01:39:47.000 But then you're not going to...

01:39:48.000 It's not appealing to a lot of people.

01:39:52.000 Everyone's not going to do it.

01:39:53.000 And it's very difficult, especially the stuff that I like to do.

01:39:56.000 You can do it.

01:39:57.000 A lot of people do it.

01:39:59.000 But not nearly as many as go to the supermarket.

01:40:03.000 When you get your meat, do you have a specific rancher that you use?

01:40:07.000 It's a great question.

01:40:09.000 Everything is a process and it's part of the process.

01:40:11.000 So just kind of like aging the meat and then putting it on the plate.

01:40:14.000 But there's a whole backstory to this.

01:40:17.000 I've developed a relationship.

01:40:18.000 One of my closest friends and my mentor in beef is this guy by the name of John Tarpolf.

01:40:24.000 And, you know, he picks out the cattle and then it goes through the system and, you know, they audit the system.

01:40:33.000 And I knew him before he came on board with Nyman Ranch.

01:40:37.000 So I knew him when he had his own slaughterhouse in Granite City, Illinois.

01:40:45.000 And I met him through the guys, through Master Purveyors.

01:40:47.000 And then he became, I guess, the VP of Beef in Nyman Ranch.

01:40:53.000 And so I invest most of my focus with him, and he's taught me.

01:40:57.000 So he's picking out a lot of my cattle.

01:40:59.000 And it's done through family farms, all antibiotic-free, steroid-free, raised ethically.

01:41:08.000 Animals die with dignity.

01:41:10.000 They're not cattle prodded and pushed along.

01:41:14.000 How do they die?

01:41:15.000 Well, most of them, well, all of them, it's basically like a pin.

01:41:21.000 It's like a stun bolt.

01:41:23.000 Like No Country for Old Men, that thing.

01:41:25.000 Exactly.

01:41:26.000 That's exactly how it's done.

01:41:27.000 But it's done in a certain system.

01:41:30.000 Temple Grandin transformed the entire system of abattoirs in this country.

01:41:37.000 Do you know about Temple Grandin?

01:41:39.000 No.

01:41:40.000 Such an interesting woman. 0.74

01:41:42.000 Autistic, but she actually is like the cattle whisperer. 0.56

01:41:46.000 And she can go into the environment and she can see just like a shadow of light going onto the floor.

01:41:54.000 And all of a sudden, the cattle will see it.

01:41:57.000 They'll stop and it builds all the stress.

01:41:59.000 And as a result, the stress creates, you know, fear and worry in the animal.

01:42:05.000 Why are they afraid of light?

01:42:07.000 It just can be something normal.

01:42:08.000 I mean, if they walk clockwise as opposed to counterclockwise in the circle, all these things have an impact.

01:42:14.000 She's written several books on it.

01:42:16.000 They did a whole series on her, like a great movie, I think on HBO. Claire Danes played her.

01:42:23.000 But she'll literally crawl through the abattoir to understand all the angles and advise so the animals don't get super stressed.

01:42:32.000 A stressed animal has an impact on the quality of the beef.

01:42:35.000 And also, you don't want to torture anything.

01:42:38.000 There's a responsibility behind eating meat, I think.

01:42:42.000 So, you know, for me, it starts not only with the family farms that they're raising the cattle, the feed that they're finishing the cattle on, and then how they're transported, you know, and then how they go through the system in terms of the abattoir storage and then come to me.

01:43:00.000 I like to receive a majority of my beef in combos, which means it never sees the inside of a cryovac bag, the plastic bags.

01:43:09.000 For me, dry aging that way is also, it preserves a lot of the natural, good, friendly bacteria that's on the meat as opposed to putting it in a bag and then they put steam to almost sterilize the meat and they put it along.

01:43:26.000 And so there's all these different flavors that are gathered.

01:43:29.000 I think from John Tarboff and Nyman Ranch, they've really been my go-to nowadays.

01:43:35.000 But it's like John and his sons, they really have educated me on beef and give me a lot of pride.

01:43:43.000 There is a genetic factor for tenderness in beef.

01:43:46.000 I mean, I didn't realize this, but it's not just, oh, that one's really nicely marbled.

01:43:51.000 But it's not.

01:43:52.000 You have to look at the grain of the beef.

01:43:54.000 You're looking at the eye.

01:43:55.000 It's not only just the fat.

01:43:56.000 It's how the fat is dispersed.

01:43:59.000 And that has a huge impact also on stress.

01:44:02.000 I mean, you can look at a piece of meat and sometimes they'll be rejected and call it a dark cutter.

01:44:08.000 The meat comes almost like dark, deep, almost like burgundy red.

01:44:13.000 And when the animal's like that, and I've tasted it just because I was curious, but the quality of the beef is just because of stress.

01:44:22.000 The adrenaline goes through the animal and taints the meat.

01:44:25.000 And that's what makes it dark like that?

01:44:26.000 Yeah, it paints the meat.

01:44:27.000 What about grass-fed beef?

01:44:29.000 Grass-fed beef, I don't, you know, it's a great question.

01:44:32.000 You know, for me, I don't look at grass-fed versus grain-fed.

01:44:35.000 I look at nutrition, okay?

01:44:37.000 So just because something's grass-fed, I think sometimes the animals themselves, it's more stressful to eat grass that is not nutrient-rich.

01:44:45.000 So I believe in grass-fed with responsible grass farmers that are then allowing the cattle, you know, to do grass-fed right, which I've experienced over in Ireland, Scotland, and in England.

01:45:00.000 It's literally, it's about the nutrition.

01:45:03.000 So, I mean, you go out and you say, okay, this animal is grass-fed and you taste the meat.

01:45:08.000 It's like, this meat is horrible, as opposed to another grass-fed and like, this is great.

01:45:12.000 So it's not like absolute.

01:45:14.000 So for me, it's really more about the nutrition, like how healthy can you maintain the animal?

01:45:19.000 I'm not talking about like force-feeding the animal, but I think the right...

01:45:23.000 The right characteristics of beef that you and I love really come from grain finished beef as a mainstay.

01:45:31.000 But you can find some grass-fed that's competitive with that, but it's hard to find.

01:45:37.000 The argument about grass-fed beef is primarily taste, if you prefer it, and I do a lot of times, but also health, that it's healthier for you.

01:45:48.000 The essential fatty acids of a grass-fed cow are different.

01:45:55.000 That's true.

01:45:57.000 But again, it depends on how you look at steak.

01:46:00.000 Look, if you're an everyday beef eater, I think that that conversation is completely valid.

01:46:07.000 But if you're someone who looks at steak as an extravagance or something that is almost a celebration to enjoy, Grain finished beef is like butter.

01:46:21.000 The taste itself, it's deep, it's rich.

01:46:24.000 Remember when we were talking earlier about wagyu cattle?

01:46:28.000 Everything has its place.

01:46:30.000 But for that steakhouse experience, I would never want a grass-fed steak.

01:46:35.000 For like that broiler steak, which is cooked on, like that for me, it's like a really treat.

01:46:40.000 It's a real treat.

01:46:41.000 It's something like you can't get, like I like Black Angus or Angus Hereford Cross.

01:46:48.000 That's the cattle that for me brings Americana on the plate. 0.87

01:46:52.000 Yeah, Bourdain felt the same way.

01:46:54.000 He was not interested in grass-fed beef the same way I am.

01:46:58.000 But there's different levels of grass-fed.

01:47:00.000 I mean, I've had grass-fed, and again, it could rival any grain-fed.

01:47:05.000 Like over in Scotland and Ireland, I mean, look at their grass.

01:47:08.000 It's so nutrient-rich.

01:47:09.000 Over here, it's a different story.

01:47:11.000 Especially here, right?

01:47:12.000 Because it's dry and not enough water.

01:47:15.000 Over there, it's rainy every day.

01:47:16.000 Rainy.

01:47:16.000 It's green.

01:47:17.000 It's constantly in the cattle.

01:47:19.000 They're growing their own.

01:47:20.000 They supplement barley that they grow on the estate.

01:47:24.000 The whole thing is just, it works.

01:47:27.000 So, like, this whole concept of, like, saying grass-fed versus grain-fed, I think that there's another story, and that, for me, is really the nutrition of the animal.

01:47:36.000 But I do agree with you.

01:47:37.000 There is the concept of, you know, healthy nutrition that you'll find higher, you know, higher traits of that, but I'm not a nutritionist at the end of the day, so...

01:47:46.000 You know, are you aware of the carnivore diet?

01:47:50.000 I am.

01:47:50.000 Yeah.

01:47:50.000 Have you ever messed around with that?

01:47:53.000 Yeah, somewhat.

01:47:54.000 How often do you eat meat yourself?

01:47:57.000 Well, I taste it every day.

01:48:00.000 But to sit down and have a steak, it's a rarity.

01:48:04.000 But I eat a lot of red meat.

01:48:05.000 Like, I eat quite often.

01:48:07.000 But you don't sit down and have a steak very often.

01:48:10.000 Right.

01:48:11.000 I can't.

01:48:12.000 I can't.

01:48:12.000 I can't do it.

01:48:13.000 Why?

01:48:14.000 Because I taste it all the time.

01:48:16.000 So to sit there and eat a whole steak, I might eat a half a steak.

01:48:22.000 I have that flavor.

01:48:24.000 It's like it's a whole...

01:48:25.000 For a whole month, I did it.

01:48:27.000 For the month of January, they call it World Carnivore Month.

01:48:29.000 I ate mostly ribeyes and elk steak and eggs.

01:48:34.000 What did it do to your mind?

01:48:36.000 I think I've got more aggressive.

01:48:38.000 And I'm kind of joking about that.

01:48:41.000 Maybe it gave me more energy.

01:48:43.000 I don't know.

01:48:44.000 It's different.

01:48:46.000 Something happens.

01:48:47.000 It makes sense to me that if you're a cow, you don't need to be aggressive.

01:48:54.000 Because you're basically just eating grass and chilling most of the time.

01:48:58.000 However, there's bulls.

01:49:00.000 Bulls are very aggressive.

01:49:02.000 But...

01:49:05.000 I don't know if my analogy makes sense, but if you eat meat and only meat, I really feel like there's some kind of a shift that happens with virtually no carbohydrates.

01:49:17.000 I might have had a couple of pieces of chili mango and I think I had a few olives or something like that for the whole month.

01:49:23.000 And I felt great. 1.00

01:49:26.000 You would think you would feel like shit. 0.99

01:49:27.000 I did not feel like shit at all. 0.99

01:49:29.000 I felt really good and I had incredible energy. 0.96

01:49:34.000 But I got bored.

01:49:35.000 I got bored.

01:49:36.000 I wanted to eat other things.

01:49:38.000 But here we are, it's May, and that's a few months ago.

01:49:44.000 But I think sometimes, like, hmm, maybe I should get back to that.

01:49:47.000 I mean, it was only five months ago, right?

01:49:50.000 But I lost a lot of weight.

01:49:53.000 I got down to...

01:49:54.000 And that's the other thing, too.

01:49:55.000 I wonder whether or not how lean I would get or whether or not that would level off.

01:50:00.000 But I think I wound up losing 12 pounds or somewhere around that range.

01:50:06.000 Was it a lot of water weight, though?

01:50:08.000 I imagine so.

01:50:09.000 Because in general...

01:50:11.000 Because you're depleting your glycogen stores.

01:50:13.000 So at the end of the day, you're just like...

01:50:17.000 Yeah.

01:50:18.000 Thirsty for that in your cells, you know? 0.63

01:50:20.000 But it didn't really fuck with my workouts.

01:50:22.000 You know, I thought, I worried about that, that it was going to mess with my workouts, but I had good energy.

01:50:29.000 But again, I only did it for a month.

01:50:31.000 I've had friends, my friend Trevor did it for, I think he said he did it for six months, but after a while he felt like he was dropping off.

01:50:37.000 But then I know people that have been doing it for years, and they feel great.

01:50:41.000 I lean towards that.

01:50:42.000 I can't do it like as a strict, you know, regiment, you know, but...

01:50:46.000 Have you ever tried to do it as a strict regimen?

01:50:48.000 When you say you can't do it as a strict regimen?

01:50:51.000 I have, you know, I have, but not when I have the restaurant in operation because, you know, I'm sitting there and, you know, I'm tasting everything, you know, making sure everything's right and includes like a pasta or something.

01:51:02.000 It could just be like a bite and just messes with you.

01:51:04.000 Oh, yeah.

01:51:05.000 Yeah, the greatest thing in the world to me is intermittent fasting.

01:51:08.000 You know, for me, it's like, you know, not eat, you know, from that period of time and, you know, start eating at like four o'clock in the afternoon.

01:51:16.000 And that, for me, has always been like a godsend that just that works.

01:51:20.000 Yeah, that makes a big impact.

01:51:21.000 And especially for people that are struggling with their weight.

01:51:24.000 Yeah.

01:51:24.000 You know, it's so easy to just shove things in your face.

01:51:29.000 It's so easy just to continue to eat when you're really not even hungry anymore.

01:51:33.000 You're bored.

01:51:34.000 Like for me, the struggle is late at night. 0.99

01:51:36.000 You know, when I come home late at night, especially when I was coming home from the comedy store, I just want to fucking eat. 0.99

01:51:40.000 You know, I'd want to eat chips or I want to eat some bullshit. 0.99

01:51:44.000 It's always bullshit when you're tired, too. 1.00

01:51:46.000 It's always the worst food. 1.00

01:51:47.000 Once you get sugar out of your system, you don't crave it.

01:51:50.000 But once you eat a little bit of sugar, then you constantly crave it.

01:51:53.000 Yes.

01:51:57.000 There's something evil about sugar. 0.98

01:52:00.000 It's ridiculous. 0.99

01:52:02.000 It's so devilish. 0.99

01:52:03.000 There's something about it, but it's also so great.

01:52:06.000 Like, how can those two things coexist?

01:52:09.000 Because, like, an amazing, like, just ice cream with fudge and some whipped cream is so good sometimes. 0.99

01:52:17.000 But then the feeling that I have afterwards, like, you fucking dummy, why did you do this to yourself? 0.99

01:52:23.000 Yeah, 100%. 0.99

01:52:24.000 But, I mean, there's, like, a feeling, like, when you take a spoon of that fudge and ice cream, you put it in, like, it goes through your whole body.

01:52:32.000 I know, your body's so happy for that brief period of time, but then it's just a trick, because then you feel like you got poisoned.

01:52:36.000 It's a trick, 100%. 0.99

01:52:37.000 I remember one time, I was eating real strict, and then I decided to go off the reservation for a day, and I had a cheeseburger with fries and a giant shake, a big chocolate shake, and my fucking head hurt. 0.91

01:52:53.000 I had to lay on the couch. 0.93

01:52:55.000 And my kids were asking me questions that I couldn't even answer.

01:52:58.000 I was like, what are you at?

01:52:59.000 I don't know.

01:52:59.000 What?

01:53:00.000 Who am I? Where am I? It was like my head was in a vice.

01:53:03.000 It was really, it felt like I got drugged.

01:53:05.000 Yeah.

01:53:05.000 I was just like, oh, I had nothing.

01:53:09.000 Because your body's also super sensitive.

01:53:11.000 Yeah.

01:53:11.000 Because, you know.

01:53:12.000 Because I wasn't eating like that.

01:53:13.000 Yeah.

01:53:14.000 Yeah, that's the dance between delicious and nutritious.

01:53:19.000 Like, what is that?

01:53:20.000 How do you manage that dance?

01:53:22.000 How do you navigate that dance?

01:53:23.000 Um...

01:53:26.000 I'm pretty disciplined.

01:53:27.000 Like, you know, I'll get into, I mean, up into this, like for the past, I mean, I was super into working out, you know, daily.

01:53:35.000 And then I got so focused on the restaurant.

01:53:39.000 You know, it just was like, I don't have time.

01:53:41.000 I've got to get back to it because I felt so good and so much energy.

01:53:45.000 But in terms of like the dance for me...

01:53:49.000 I'm like just little snippets of tasting good food, like great food, like all day.

01:53:56.000 While you're cooking?

01:53:57.000 While I'm cooking.

01:53:57.000 What is your day like when you get there?

01:53:59.000 Like when do you get there and when do you leave?

01:54:01.000 Well, now, normally I'd get in at, let's say, anywhere from 10, like 10 o'clock and then could leave as late, you know, typically like 10, 30, 11. So you guys have a lunch crowd?

01:54:16.000 No, it's even no lunch.

01:54:17.000 It's just preparation.

01:54:19.000 Really?

01:54:19.000 Well, I have barbecue for lunch, and so that's good.

01:54:22.000 So I would sleep there overnight, get it going.

01:54:25.000 I have this amazing chef, Marcus, who's been with me.

01:54:28.000 You sleep there?

01:54:28.000 Yeah, you sleep there because, you know...

01:54:31.000 We're talking about the temperatures and everything.

01:54:33.000 So there's a certain time when you need to wrap the beef, for example, in butcher paper.

01:54:40.000 That usually happens at like 4.35 in the morning.

01:54:43.000 And if you don't do it, you miss the window to do it.

01:54:47.000 So I don't like to hold the meat too long.

01:54:49.000 So to get the better quality, you have to write it.

01:54:53.000 A lot of people, they'll just make it earlier.

01:54:55.000 Put it into the warmer, and it will hold.

01:54:57.000 But, you know, I think that there's a huge difference.

01:54:59.000 So, you know, we'll wrap it really, really early.

01:55:02.000 So, that's usually what happens.

01:55:05.000 So, where do you sleep?

01:55:08.000 Downstairs.

01:55:09.000 On the couch?

01:55:10.000 On the couch, yeah.

01:55:11.000 Wow.

01:55:12.000 And you set the alarm for 4.30?

01:55:14.000 Yep.

01:55:15.000 It's painful.

01:55:16.000 So, you want to be a chef, huh?

01:55:18.000 Yeah.

01:55:18.000 Well, that's it, you know?

01:55:19.000 There's the agony and the ecstasy.

01:55:21.000 Yeah.

01:55:22.000 You know, that's it.

01:55:23.000 But my usual routine, like particularly now, like I'll get in by 10 o'clock.

01:55:27.000 I take a list of what's, you know, going on like for that day, pack out meals, whatever, you know, finish like 10, like 8, 8, anywhere from between 8 to 10. That's a long day.

01:55:38.000 It's a long day.

01:55:39.000 I'm feeling it lately.

01:55:41.000 I mean, all like the muscles in my hands, like, I don't even know what's going on.

01:55:45.000 That's why I say I have to start training again, because I'm like, my transitional movement is slow.

01:55:50.000 I'm like an old man, like I get out of bed, I'm like, I make the noise.

01:55:53.000 Like, it's just been terrible, you know?

01:55:55.000 Well, I also imagine this stress is not good for you either and probably not good for your sleep.

01:56:00.000 I've been compartmentalizing a lot of what's going on right now.

01:56:04.000 You know, that's the only way I'm getting through.

01:56:05.000 You know, I have to be strong for my team.

01:56:07.000 I have to give really strong leadership.

01:56:10.000 I need to inspire them just through example.

01:56:13.000 That's the only way because a lot of people, they just want to take off and they want to collect unemployment.

01:56:18.000 You know, the way it's working now, they make more money.

01:56:21.000 I've been on unemployment and working.

01:56:23.000 It's crazy.

01:56:26.000 Yeah, so I have to lead from the front.

01:56:28.000 First one in, first one out.

01:56:31.000 But I compartmentalize, so the stress is like there.

01:56:34.000 Again, I'm focused like, okay, I've got to feed the hospital workers.

01:56:37.000 I've got to feed St. Joseph.

01:56:39.000 And how can I come up with something that the neighborhood wants to indulge on, whether it's meat, loaf, and peas.

01:56:46.000 Mashed potatoes or it's fried chicken or it's, you know, chicken with grains, lemon and honey, you know, something like that.

01:56:53.000 Well, I can only hope that this is over soon enough and that things will bounce back.

01:56:59.000 No, me too.

01:57:01.000 But you've got an amazing restaurant.

01:57:02.000 It's really great.

01:57:03.000 I love eating there and I can't wait to come back there again.

01:57:06.000 I really hope that it's a short amount of time.

01:57:11.000 I mean, I don't know when and how.

01:57:13.000 I don't know how it's going to We're tough.

01:57:15.000 Restaurant people are tough.

01:57:17.000 Oh, you have to be. 1.00

01:57:18.000 Just the fucking hours that you put in, man. 0.99

01:57:20.000 Just do the best that we can. 1.00

01:57:21.000 That's all you can do, you know?

01:57:22.000 Well, thanks, brother.

01:57:23.000 Thanks for being here.

01:57:24.000 Thanks so much for having me.

01:57:25.000 Appreciate you.

01:57:25.000 Appreciate it.

01:57:25.000 And hopefully next time I see you is be at your restaurant.

01:57:28.000 Yes.

01:57:29.000 All right.

01:57:29.000 Thank you.

01:57:30.000 Bye, everybody.

01:57:31.000 Okay, bye.

01:57:35.000 Bless you.

01:57:36.000 You did it.

01:57:36.000 Thank you.

01:57:37.000 My pleasure, brother.

The Joe Rogan Experience - May 05, 2020

Joe Rogan Experience #1469 - Adam Perry Lang

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