The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1489 - Ronnie Coleman

00:00:00.000 Mr. Coleman!

00:00:01.000 What's going on?

00:00:02.000 Great to meet you, brother.

00:00:03.000 It's a real honor.

00:00:04.000 I mean, you are...

00:00:06.000 When I was really into bodybuilding and reading the magazines, I always said that you looked like a dude who they invented in a Marvel comic book to kill the Hulk.

00:00:16.000 That's what you looked like when you were in your prime, man.

00:00:19.000 Yeah, I felt like I probably could, too, back in those days. 0.99

00:00:23.000 I mean, goddamn, you were freakishly huge. 0.99

00:00:25.000 It was crazy to see. 0.99

00:00:26.000 It was like, you know, I remember paying attention to bodybuilding from the beginning, like the Franco Colombo and Schwarzenegger days, to what you guys had become, you know, when you were in your...

00:00:37.000 You just redefined everything.

00:00:38.000 Everything was just so extreme.

00:00:41.000 Yeah, we were pretty tough back in the old days.

00:00:46.000 Everything was hard, you know.

00:00:48.000 The guys I was competing against were real good.

00:00:51.000 I just came out of nowhere because I got in bodybuilding real late.

00:00:55.000 Where I'm from, we didn't have it.

00:00:57.000 I didn't find out about it until I graduated college, went out to Texas, and started working for the police department.

00:01:03.000 How old were you at the time?

00:01:04.000 I was about 24. So that's when you started bodybuilding?

00:01:07.000 That's when I started.

00:01:08.000 But I've been working out, you know, since I was 12, 13. For sports?

00:01:12.000 Yeah, I was on the powerlifting team.

00:01:14.000 Oh, okay.

00:01:15.000 I did powerlifting in high school.

00:01:17.000 So I was on the piloting team.

00:01:21.000 I'm from Louisiana, a real small town.

00:01:24.000 A lot of the guys are kind of big like me, kind of strong like me.

00:01:28.000 A lot of people don't understand, but strength is something like a natural gift.

00:01:36.000 You can work on it and get better at it, but you also have to be gifted a little bit.

00:01:41.000 Have to have a nice base.

00:01:42.000 Yeah, you have to have a nice base and you have to have a little talent.

00:01:46.000 Yeah.

00:01:47.000 You know, like this guy, I think, I can't remember his name, but he deadlifted 1,100 pounds.

00:01:53.000 Oh, that Game of Thrones guy?

00:01:56.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:01:57.000 The mountain?

00:01:58.000 That's a gift.

00:01:59.000 You know, that's talent.

00:02:01.000 Yeah, he's gifted.

00:02:02.000 Everybody can't do that.

00:02:03.000 I did 800 for a couple reps, but I don't think I can do 1,100.

00:02:09.000 That's a lot of weight.

00:02:11.000 That's a lot of weight.

00:02:11.000 He's an enormous human being, though.

00:02:13.000 That guy, that's a Viking right there.

00:02:15.000 You have to have a lot of weight to be able to pull a lot of weight like that, too.

00:02:20.000 In your career, you were known for lifting large amounts of weight, too.

00:02:26.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:02:27.000 Like I was saying, I started powerlifting when I was in high school.

00:02:30.000 I had the gift of strength.

00:02:33.000 I was pretty strong in high school, all throughout my college days.

00:02:39.000 It was just something that I think I was kind of born with a little bit.

00:02:43.000 You don't just start lifting heavy weights like that all of a sudden.

00:02:48.000 Like I said, you have to have some kind of natural talent for it.

00:02:52.000 Well, there are some crazy photos of you during the Mr. Olympia days when you were a police officer.

00:02:56.000 Is that you?

00:02:57.000 Look at that.

00:02:58.000 Yeah, that's me in the ninth grade on the left, and that's me winning the What happened to your arm on the left?

00:03:03.000 You got a cast on.

00:03:04.000 Yeah, I broke my arm. 1.00

00:03:05.000 Did you fuck somebody up? 0.99

00:03:06.000 Yeah, no. 0.99

00:03:08.000 I was playing football, and I think I fell on my wrist or something and cracked it or something.

00:03:15.000 And that's me winning the Mr. Universe, turning pro in the middle.

00:03:21.000 And that's me winning the 99 Mr. Olympia.

00:03:25.000 For right there.

00:03:26.000 Wow. 1.00

00:03:28.000 Damn, you were big. 0.99

00:03:29.000 Yeah, I was kind of big a little bit there. 0.99

00:03:32.000 A little bit?

00:03:34.000 Well, you know, I got a lot bigger than that.

00:03:36.000 That was my second Olympia.

00:03:37.000 I only weighed about 255 there.

00:03:39.000 What's the biggest you ever got?

00:03:40.000 I was 295, my seventh one.

00:03:45.000 So I put on a little bit more weight as I got on up there.

00:03:49.000 But is it one of those things where you just kind of have to keep up with everybody else and everybody just keeps getting bigger and bigger?

00:03:55.000 No, it was that thing, I was trying to distance myself from everybody else.

00:03:59.000 So I kept getting bigger and bigger so nobody would catch up with me.

00:04:04.000 And what a lot of people don't understand is, you see me big up there like that, but it took a long time for me to get there.

00:04:12.000 That didn't happen overnight.

00:04:14.000 I put on about 5 pounds of muscle, between 5 and 10 pounds of muscle a year.

00:04:19.000 And that came from all that heavy lifting, a lot of eating.

00:04:24.000 A lot of eating.

00:04:26.000 What was a standard meal for you?

00:04:28.000 I mean, it wasn't a lot to me, you know, but if somebody, you know, normally tried to eat it, it'd probably be a lot.

00:04:37.000 So I'd eat probably like a pound of chicken, grilled breast, you know, with half a cup of rice.

00:04:46.000 That was a normal meal?

00:04:47.000 Yeah, that was normal.

00:04:48.000 And how many of those would you have a day?

00:04:49.000 I had about six meals a day.

00:04:51.000 You know, it's kind of hard to eat like that, you know, so I would have to wake up in the middle of the night to eat and go back to sleep.

00:05:00.000 Really?

00:05:00.000 Yeah.

00:05:01.000 Was that annoying?

00:05:02.000 No, no.

00:05:03.000 I would think that would be annoying.

00:05:05.000 You're tired and sleeping and got to wake up to eat?

00:05:08.000 No, you kind of get used to it.

00:05:10.000 When you eat like that, you're hungry every three hours.

00:05:13.000 Oh, really?

00:05:14.000 Yeah, every two or three hours you're hungry.

00:05:16.000 Because I'm not eating a lot of fat.

00:05:19.000 It's lean.

00:05:21.000 I'm not eating a lot of carbs.

00:05:23.000 So it's a little bit of food at a time.

00:05:26.000 For me, it was.

00:05:28.000 And you would get down to what percent body fat?

00:05:31.000 I was.33.

00:05:33.000 0.33, what does that mean?

00:05:36.000 Is that less than 3%?

00:05:38.000 That's less than half a percent.

00:05:40.000 Oh, 0.33, like what?

00:05:43.000 0.33.

00:05:44.000 How does a human get that low?

00:05:47.000 I got to attribute it to my genetics.

00:05:50.000 But was it also like a trickle-down system?

00:05:53.000 Like off-season, say if you...

00:05:55.000 How many weeks would it take for you to get ready for Mr. Olympia?

00:05:59.000 10 to 12. 10 to 12. So at 12 weeks out...

00:06:03.000 How much body fat do you think you were carrying around then?

00:06:07.000 About 3%.

00:06:08.000 So 3 was a high?

00:06:10.000 That's the highest, yeah.

00:06:12.000 Jesus!

00:06:13.000 Would you get tired all the time?

00:06:14.000 I'm 330 pounds at that though.

00:06:17.000 Oh my god.

00:06:18.000 Would you get tired all the time with that little body fat?

00:06:20.000 No, no, no.

00:06:23.000 I'm real good in fat.

00:06:25.000 That's good and fat.

00:06:26.000 3% body fat is good and fat.

00:06:28.000 That's hilarious.

00:06:30.000 Jamie, see if you can pull up a picture of him winning the 7th Mr. Olympia title when he was at his heaviest.

00:06:37.000 I want to see what that looks like.

00:06:38.000 I was pretty big at that one.

00:06:40.000 Yeah, you were big, man.

00:06:41.000 I remember looking at the magazines and shaking my head.

00:06:45.000 Today I would say, oh, that's Photoshopped.

00:06:47.000 They didn't have Photoshopped back then.

00:06:49.000 No, they didn't have it back then.

00:06:50.000 I was a little bit too big for that one.

00:06:53.000 They had me to come down a little bit for the next one.

00:06:55.000 Oh, really?

00:06:56.000 So I came down to like 275. So when you said they, coaches?

00:07:01.000 Some of the judges.

00:07:03.000 The judges?

00:07:04.000 Yeah.

00:07:05.000 The judges were telling you you're too big?

00:07:07.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:07:08.000 That's when you know you fucked up. 1.00

00:07:09.000 That's when you're getting crazy. 0.99

00:07:11.000 When the judges at Mr. Olympia are telling you, a guy who's won it multiple years in a row.

00:07:17.000 Seven years in a row, yeah.

00:07:18.000 They're telling you you're getting too big.

00:07:20.000 Yeah, getting too big.

00:07:21.000 Ronnie, take it down a notch.

00:07:22.000 Yeah.

00:07:23.000 Because, you know, the guy next to me is only like 250, you know.

00:07:27.000 But why were they saying, you still looked amazing.

00:07:30.000 Like, why were they saying you were too big?

00:07:32.000 Because I was at the time.

00:07:34.000 It really was too big?

00:07:37.000 Yeah, for the standards back then, you know.

00:07:40.000 How do they define that, though?

00:07:42.000 It's really just taste, right?

00:07:43.000 Like, they look at it and they decide.

00:07:46.000 Subjective, yeah, in a way.

00:07:47.000 It's kind of subjective in a way.

00:07:49.000 What year was the seventh one?

00:07:52.000 I think it was 05. Was it 05, Ryan?

00:07:55.000 No, that's the eighth one.

00:07:57.000 04 is number seven.

00:08:00.000 Yeah, there we go.

00:08:04.000 Yeah, that's it right there.

00:08:06.000 Wow.

00:08:07.000 Yeah.

00:08:07.000 God, you were huge.

00:08:11.000 That does look like a guy who comes out of a lab to kill the Hulk. 0.60

00:08:15.000 You know, like some evil genius, like the Hulk is working for the Avengers.

00:08:20.000 Yeah.

00:08:21.000 Yeah.

00:08:24.000 So how do they make that conversation with you when they say, Ronnie, you're too big?

00:08:28.000 Well, they're just talking to my nutritionist.

00:08:30.000 You know, I have a nutritionist that did all my diets and all that kind of stuff for me.

00:08:34.000 So they probably just, you know, told him real nicely.

00:08:39.000 Yeah.

00:08:40.000 Bring it down a notch.

00:08:41.000 Yeah.

00:08:42.000 I remember there's a photo of you when you were still on the police force and you were also, I don't know if you were Mr. Olympian when you were on the police force, were you?

00:08:49.000 Yeah, three times, yeah.

00:08:50.000 And then you eventually left the force?

00:08:52.000 Yeah, uh-huh.

00:08:53.000 You were so big.

00:08:54.000 You're sitting there with the uniform on.

00:08:57.000 I'm like, there is no way that's a regular uniform.

00:08:59.000 No, it's not.

00:09:00.000 No, it's not a uniform.

00:09:01.000 Did you wear those shorts?

00:09:03.000 That can't be real.

00:09:04.000 Did you arrest people with those shorts on?

00:09:06.000 No, I made those shorts myself.

00:09:10.000 But we did wear shorts, though.

00:09:11.000 We did have shorts for the police department.

00:09:13.000 I think you see that picture right there.

00:09:15.000 I got on shorts in the briefing room, but they're not showing my legs right there.

00:09:20.000 Right there?

00:09:21.000 Yeah, right there.

00:09:22.000 I have on shorts if you...

00:09:23.000 That picture is actually...

00:09:27.000 Bigger than that, but you just can't see it.

00:09:30.000 Did that inspire other guys you worked with to start lifting, too?

00:09:33.000 Yeah, yeah, pretty much.

00:09:34.000 I imagine.

00:09:36.000 We had a gym at the station.

00:09:39.000 Oh, really?

00:09:40.000 We had about four or five stations.

00:09:42.000 Every station has a gym.

00:09:43.000 We have a training center with a huge gym.

00:09:46.000 Really?

00:09:47.000 Yeah, I started working out there when I first hired on.

00:09:50.000 I worked out with me and the chief and some other guys.

00:09:52.000 We all worked out together there for a while.

00:09:55.000 And this is in the beginning before you were gigantic?

00:09:58.000 Yeah, before I got real big.

00:10:00.000 You know, I had to start small.

00:10:02.000 Of course.

00:10:03.000 Everybody's a baby at one point in time.

00:10:05.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:10:05.000 So I was 215 when I first started.

00:10:08.000 Now, when you first started, did you have this idea that one day, was this a dream?

00:10:13.000 No, no.

00:10:14.000 No.

00:10:15.000 I did it because the guy gave me a free membership to the gym.

00:10:18.000 I never had a dream.

00:10:21.000 I just wanted a free membership because I was poor back then.

00:10:24.000 I couldn't afford to pay for a gym membership because I just hired on there.

00:10:28.000 Coming from Domino's Pizza, where I had to eat pizza every day to survive because I didn't make that much money.

00:10:36.000 By the time I got the police department, I was still struggling.

00:10:39.000 And trying to get back on my feet and I couldn't afford a membership still.

00:10:43.000 And this is when you were 24?

00:10:45.000 Yeah, I was 24. So you were just a big guy?

00:10:49.000 Yeah, I've been big and muscular my whole entire life.

00:10:53.000 But regular big, not like Mr. Olympia big.

00:10:57.000 Well, I would say put a picture up there that somebody took not too long ago.

00:11:03.000 When I first got into a sport of bodybuilding, I was doing security at a Mr. Olympia event.

00:11:12.000 And most of the people out in the audience thought that I should be on stage back then.

00:11:17.000 Really?

00:11:18.000 I didn't think so, you know, but they thought that.

00:11:20.000 I had 22, 23-inch arms back then.

00:11:23.000 I had those 22, 21, 22-inch arms in college.

00:11:29.000 How big were they when you were at your biggest?

00:11:32.000 24. 24. That's the biggest they got.

00:11:35.000 That's like a waist. 0.92

00:11:37.000 Yeah, some girl. 1.00

00:11:39.000 Yeah, but like a runner.

00:11:42.000 Like Zach Bitter?

00:11:43.000 I bet Zach Bitter got a 24-inch waist. 0.99

00:11:46.000 Actually, my waist was like 29 when I first started.

00:11:49.000 Wow.

00:11:50.000 I remember Holyfield, when he was a heavyweight champion in the world, he had a 28-inch waist.

00:11:53.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:11:54.000 That's crazy.

00:11:55.000 That's a V right there.

00:11:56.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:11:57.000 Yeah, crazy.

00:11:58.000 So you do this security for the Mr. Olympia event.

00:12:03.000 91, yeah.

00:12:04.000 Did that get the bug in your head?

00:12:07.000 No, no, no.

00:12:10.000 I never started thinking that.

00:12:11.000 How did it happen?

00:12:14.000 The first one in 98. So how do you enter it?

00:12:17.000 What makes you want to enter something like that?

00:12:20.000 Well, like I said, the guy said, if you compete, I give you a free membership to the gym.

00:12:26.000 Okay.

00:12:26.000 So I was just competing for a free membership to the gym because I worked full-time in the police department.

00:12:31.000 I had that job.

00:12:32.000 I had a couple of security jobs on the side.

00:12:35.000 So I didn't really need money from bodybuilding.

00:12:37.000 I had benefits and everything.

00:12:40.000 I didn't need money from bodybuilding.

00:12:42.000 So you were just doing it for a free membership?

00:12:43.000 I was just doing it for a free membership.

00:12:44.000 So you do it, and obviously people go, this guy's got real potential.

00:12:49.000 I guess they were saying that to themselves.

00:12:51.000 I never heard anybody say that.

00:12:53.000 So what did you do?

00:12:54.000 Like you just decided to keep going?

00:12:56.000 I just kept going for the free membership, yeah.

00:12:58.000 I'm not gonna give it up.

00:13:01.000 So competing just was about free memberships at one point in time.

00:13:05.000 When did it become serious?

00:13:06.000 When I won my first Olympia in 98. That's when it became, first Olympia?

00:13:11.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:13:11.000 Do you know how many bodybuilders right now want to jump out of a building?

00:13:15.000 They're going to go right to the top floor and fucking leap out a window. 0.56

00:13:20.000 Yeah, but see, my dream was always to be a professional football player. 0.97

00:13:24.000 So I played football, junior high, high school, college, and all that kind of stuff.

00:13:31.000 When I didn't get drafted, I was like, okay, I got a degree so I can get a good job, you know, with an accounting degree.

00:13:37.000 And I graduated with honors and all that kind of stuff.

00:13:38.000 And I figured I'd just be an accountant and make good money there.

00:13:43.000 So I never had no dreams or aspirations of being a bodybuilder.

00:13:46.000 But you never were an accountant?

00:13:48.000 No, I never made it.

00:13:49.000 You never did?

00:13:50.000 I never got a job.

00:13:51.000 So you just got a job in the police department instead?

00:13:53.000 Uh-huh.

00:13:54.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:13:55.000 I tried for about two years.

00:13:56.000 To get an accountant job?

00:13:57.000 Yeah.

00:13:57.000 I tried real hard.

00:13:59.000 I did it.

00:14:00.000 A million interviews to some of the biggest accounting firms in the world, in the United States anyway.

00:14:07.000 And nobody never hired me, so like two years later, okay, I'm done.

00:14:12.000 This ain't meant to be.

00:14:14.000 Ain't nothing happening here, you know.

00:14:16.000 That's two years.

00:14:17.000 And I always saw an ad for police officers when I got the newspaper every weekend.

00:14:26.000 And it was always a big ad, you know, so it stood out.

00:14:30.000 So I'm like, hmm, they hired and you don't need experience.

00:14:34.000 Because all the jobs I went on, you know, the interviews I went on, they always want you to have experience.

00:14:39.000 I'm like, well, if you don't hire me, you know, you have no experience.

00:14:43.000 So I'm like, well, just give up on this.

00:14:45.000 You know, just go give me a job where you don't have to have experience.

00:14:49.000 And like I said, the police officer ad was the thing that stood out the most.

00:14:53.000 And I'm like...

00:14:54.000 That's not like a job where I can have a lot of fun, you know?

00:14:59.000 I can't believe that you didn't really get serious until after you won Mr. Olympia.

00:15:04.000 That's hard to believe.

00:15:05.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:15:06.000 Well, you gotta understand, you know, I never had any dreams Being a Mr. Olympia.

00:15:13.000 I never had any dreams of being a bodybuilder.

00:15:16.000 I only did it because the guy gave me a free membership to the gym.

00:15:19.000 But once you started getting going and you won Mr. Olympia and you realized, wow, I'm the best.

00:15:27.000 I gotta throw myself into this.

00:15:30.000 Exactly.

00:15:30.000 Because the way you worked out, man, I watched a video of you working out once and like just the intensity.

00:15:38.000 And thinking like, this guy's doing this for 12 weeks straight.

00:15:42.000 The intensity that you had in the gym.

00:15:45.000 There's a certain level, no matter what the sport is, champions have a certain level of focus and dedication.

00:15:52.000 And I remember watching that video and going, that's what a champion looks like.

00:15:56.000 That's what a champion looks like.

00:15:57.000 Well, you guys also realize that I started working out when I was 12. I kind of fell in love with it when I was 13. It just kind of became a hobby once I joined the powerlifting team.

00:16:10.000 So I enjoyed working out.

00:16:12.000 When you won the first Mr. Olympia, how old were you then?

00:16:14.000 34. Okay, so you had a solid eight years of lifting, you know, this is after you were on the force for a while.

00:16:22.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:16:23.000 And I already had the base too, you know, being in high school on the powerlifting team.

00:16:31.000 Now, powerlifting and lifting heavy is always a very controversial thing amongst bodybuilders, right?

00:16:36.000 Because some bodybuilders never lifted as heavy as you did.

00:16:39.000 No, no.

00:16:40.000 What was your philosophy on that?

00:16:42.000 To each his own.

00:16:43.000 You know, I lifted heavy because that's what I like to do.

00:16:46.000 And that's what I was able to do.

00:16:48.000 Like I said, I just was kind of like, in a way, I was kind of gifted to be strong like that, you know.

00:16:54.000 And it was something that I always was.

00:16:57.000 Even when I was in high school, I was benching about 350. Wow.

00:17:02.000 Almost four.

00:17:03.000 In high school.

00:17:04.000 I was squatting five, over five, in high school.

00:17:08.000 So that's just always something that's been a part of you.

00:17:10.000 Yes, always something that's been a part of me.

00:17:12.000 Now, when bodybuilders work out, for the most part, it's a lot of high reps with weight that's not in the center.

00:17:19.000 How would you do it?

00:17:20.000 I did the same way.

00:17:21.000 I started out at 20 reps, warming up, and then 15 reps, then 12, 10, something like that, on my last and heavier set.

00:17:35.000 So you still were doing a fairly large number of repetitions.

00:17:38.000 Still doing a fairly large number of repetitions.

00:17:41.000 But much higher weight than a lot of folks were.

00:17:43.000 Yeah, so when I went up, I squatted, I went up to like 600. I would do like, you know, 12 to 15 reps with that.

00:17:54.000 And benching, I would go up to like 400. 12 to 15 reps with that.

00:18:01.000 That's a tremendous amount of weight.

00:18:03.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:18:05.000 It sounds like it.

00:18:07.000 Yeah.

00:18:08.000 Until you go up against some of these guys that are doing crazy amounts of weights.

00:18:12.000 Now, you've also, since then, you've had a bunch of surgeries.

00:18:18.000 Thirteen so far.

00:18:19.000 And what started that off?

00:18:22.000 Well, I kind of hurt my back in high school when I was powerlifting.

00:18:27.000 And then I hurt it again in college when I was playing football.

00:18:31.000 Hurt my back and neck.

00:18:33.000 I did chiropractic for a long time.

00:18:37.000 And then one day in the gym, I heard it like in 96, I kind of herniated the disc.

00:18:44.000 And I guess it just got worse over time.

00:18:50.000 So when you herniated that disc, what did you do to treat it?

00:18:55.000 Nothing, nothing.

00:18:56.000 I'm a chiropractor.

00:18:57.000 Chiropractor, yeah.

00:18:59.000 I've been doing chiropractic all my life.

00:19:01.000 So I didn't have a surgery or nothing like that when I herniated that disc.

00:19:06.000 They offered me to have surgery.

00:19:10.000 So the surgery they wanted to do was probably trim the disc down because it was pushing against the nerve?

00:19:16.000 Yeah, laminectomy, whatever they call it.

00:19:18.000 Yeah, and so 13 of those, huh?

00:19:22.000 Now 13 surgeries.

00:19:24.000 Eight back, two or three hip, two or three neck.

00:19:30.000 And did this all happen all at once, where it felt like everything was falling apart?

00:19:35.000 Or was it like you get a surgery, and then you're better for a little while, and then you hurt something else?

00:19:42.000 Yeah, something like that.

00:19:43.000 Because the first one was back, the second one was back, and then I think the third one was neck.

00:19:51.000 And then back and back and hip.

00:19:56.000 Back, back, back, hip.

00:19:59.000 And what did you get done to your hips?

00:20:01.000 Did you get your hips replaced? 0.56

00:20:02.000 Yeah, yeah, both of them.

00:20:04.000 And like, what was that?

00:20:06.000 14, I think?

00:20:08.000 Yeah, 14. And how are those now?

00:20:10.000 I just had a hip surgery in January.

00:20:15.000 It's holding up a little bit better now.

00:20:18.000 One kind of went bad.

00:20:20.000 Sock is broke.

00:20:21.000 Ugh.

00:20:22.000 And I had to replace both of them.

00:20:25.000 They say they only last a certain amount of years, right?

00:20:28.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:20:30.000 Every night I had the titanium ones and the titanium are the hardest ones because they're rough and they're titanium and they're kind of hard on the body.

00:20:40.000 Oh yeah?

00:20:40.000 And because of that, you know, and me working out and all this kind of stuff, it kind of just broke the sockets.

00:20:47.000 Well, I follow you on Instagram, and I watch your workouts, and it's inspiring that after all this, you still love working out.

00:20:55.000 Yes.

00:20:55.000 You can really tell.

00:20:57.000 I mean, you enjoy it.

00:20:58.000 Still a hobby.

00:21:00.000 Look forward to it every day.

00:21:01.000 Does it give you any pause at all, knowing that you've been through all these surgeries?

00:21:07.000 No.

00:21:08.000 No?

00:21:09.000 You know, when you're doing something that you truly love, enjoy, and doing, that's what you look forward to doing all the time.

00:21:15.000 Regardless of how you feel.

00:21:18.000 Of course, I'm still in pain and all that kind of stuff.

00:21:21.000 Are you in pain all the time?

00:21:22.000 Yeah, but as long as I'm doing what I love doing, I'm okay.

00:21:28.000 You take that away, then I probably won't be okay.

00:21:32.000 So just even sitting here right now, you're in pain?

00:21:35.000 Just a minimum amount.

00:21:36.000 It's nothing major.

00:21:39.000 If you're an athlete...

00:21:41.000 You're in pain all your life.

00:21:43.000 Yeah.

00:21:44.000 I can remember in high school and college, I was in pain some days.

00:21:50.000 All the time.

00:21:51.000 All the time, yeah.

00:21:53.000 After a while, you kind of get used to it and it doesn't really bother you.

00:21:57.000 That's why I'm imagining that you have a spectacular tolerance for pain.

00:22:02.000 Yeah, I have a high tolerance.

00:22:04.000 I remember when I herniated my disc, I finished my workout.

00:22:09.000 I was squatting 600. I remember like it was yesterday.

00:22:15.000 I was coming up on rep number 8. And all of a sudden, it was a loud gunshot time.

00:22:22.000 You know, I do 600 for like 12, 13 reps all the time.

00:22:28.000 This time I took a couple weeks off and I thought I was still as strong as I was, you know, when I took the time off, but I wasn't.

00:22:35.000 I lost a little strength.

00:22:36.000 And that's why that disc snapped on me like that.

00:22:40.000 I heard it and I felt it, but, you know, the athlete in you was like, you know, let's go on, let's finish this up.

00:22:52.000 So I finished up, you know, I did leg press and some other exercises and Every time after I finished working out doing legs, I always had a real bad pain in my back.

00:23:08.000 Every single time.

00:23:09.000 But it would always go away in like an hour.

00:23:14.000 This day it didn't.

00:23:16.000 And I just went home, ate, put on my uniform, was headed to work.

00:23:22.000 And I'm like, wait a minute, my back is still hurting.

00:23:25.000 It's almost two hours later.

00:23:27.000 Something's wrong.

00:23:29.000 I ain't going to work today.

00:23:30.000 I'm going to the emergency room.

00:23:32.000 Oh, wow.

00:23:32.000 It was that bad.

00:23:33.000 Yeah, it was that bad.

00:23:35.000 Yeah.

00:23:36.000 And so you went to the emergency room. 0.98

00:23:38.000 They're probably like, what the fuck are you doing the size of this guy? 0.98

00:23:44.000 Yeah, like, we don't see nothing wrong with your back. 0.99

00:23:47.000 They probably couldn't get to it.

00:23:49.000 Well, they did x-ray.

00:23:51.000 They did x-ray, and they like, we don't see anything.

00:23:55.000 So that's when I had an MRI a couple days later and found out it was honey-eating.

00:23:58.000 Mm-hmm.

00:24:00.000 So I stayed at home for a couple weeks and sat on the couch and didn't do anything.

00:24:06.000 And two weeks later, I went back to the gym.

00:24:08.000 First exercise was squats.

00:24:10.000 Oh, my God.

00:24:12.000 Did it hurt again?

00:24:14.000 No, no, no.

00:24:15.000 I was getting ready for a show.

00:24:16.000 So it was okay?

00:24:17.000 Yeah, it was okay.

00:24:18.000 Two weeks after you herniated your disc, you're doing squats again?

00:24:21.000 Yeah.

00:24:22.000 With how much weight?

00:24:23.000 I only did 300. Oh, only 300. Yeah.

00:24:27.000 That's the most I could do for 10 reps, you know.

00:24:29.000 Wow.

00:24:30.000 10 to 12 reps, so I'm like, okay, that's good enough, you know.

00:24:33.000 But you knew that something was wrong.

00:24:34.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:24:35.000 I couldn't do 600 no more, you know.

00:24:37.000 So after that, how long before you got your first surgery?

00:24:42.000 Ten years later.

00:24:43.000 Ten years?

00:24:45.000 Ten years later.

00:24:45.000 So it was just intolerable pain?

00:24:47.000 Like what was going on?

00:24:48.000 I couldn't walk like no more than like 25 feet without my leg being on fire.

00:24:56.000 Oh, wow.

00:24:56.000 My feet being on fire.

00:24:58.000 And a whole lot of pain.

00:25:02.000 Wow.

00:25:03.000 So I knew it's time to get something serious done here now.

00:25:10.000 So what was the first?

00:25:11.000 Did they fuse it?

00:25:13.000 Lemonect me.

00:25:14.000 They shaved it off.

00:25:15.000 Okay, so that was the first one.

00:25:17.000 Yeah.

00:25:18.000 I was good for a while.

00:25:20.000 I went back to squatting and everything.

00:25:23.000 While you're still Mr. Olympia?

00:25:25.000 No, you know, I retired.

00:25:27.000 I retired in 07, so I had my first surgery in 07. Okay, so this is after you retired.

00:25:32.000 Yeah.

00:25:33.000 You're not doing too bad, just in a little bit of pain.

00:25:36.000 Yeah.

00:25:36.000 So how does it all go downhill from there?

00:25:41.000 I think maybe the second, about a year or so later, I started having problems again, being in pain again.

00:25:50.000 Same area?

00:25:51.000 Same area.

00:25:53.000 Were you squatting heavy still?

00:25:56.000 Yeah.

00:25:57.000 600 pounds still?

00:25:58.000 That kind of stuff?

00:25:59.000 No, because I wasn't competing.

00:26:01.000 So I was probably doing about 400 or 500. Somewhere in there.

00:26:05.000 But you know, it's still kind of heavy.

00:26:06.000 Yeah.

00:26:07.000 And I didn't have the weight I used to have either.

00:26:11.000 You know, I wasn't 300 and some pounds or more.

00:26:14.000 So it was a little bit more difficult.

00:26:16.000 So it just kind of went bad on me again and I had to have another surgery.

00:26:22.000 Same kind of surgery?

00:26:23.000 They trim more off of it?

00:26:28.000 Actually, they did what you call like...

00:26:32.000 I forgot actually what they did.

00:26:34.000 It's been so long ago.

00:26:36.000 That was back in like...

00:26:37.000 Like 2008, 2009, somewhere in there.

00:26:40.000 They kind of like did a refresher.

00:26:43.000 I think they did trim a little bit more off it, though.

00:26:47.000 But, you know, it was all pretty much kind of like down here from there.

00:26:52.000 And so after that injury and that surgery, then how do you wind up with the other 11 surgeries?

00:27:00.000 Well, I think like the first time you herniated disc, It's like you stack a bunch of cans on top of each other, and you snap one out.

00:27:13.000 Well, after a while, the other ones are going to start falling out of place, too.

00:27:18.000 And that's kind of what happened.

00:27:19.000 You know, the others did start just herniating on their own.

00:27:22.000 Of course, I was working out, too.

00:27:23.000 Yeah.

00:27:25.000 And I still have one now.

00:27:28.000 You got a herniated disc now?

00:27:29.000 Mm-hmm.

00:27:30.000 Yeah.

00:27:31.000 How many discs have you had operated on?

00:27:33.000 All of them.

00:27:34.000 All of them?

00:27:35.000 Every single disc?

00:27:35.000 Every single one.

00:27:36.000 So this one that you have a herniated disc on now, have you already had it operated on before?

00:27:41.000 No, this will be the first time.

00:27:43.000 This is the last one.

00:27:44.000 The last one.

00:27:45.000 Yeah.

00:27:46.000 Wow.

00:27:46.000 And so what do they do with your back?

00:27:48.000 They basically fuse everything together now?

00:27:49.000 Yeah.

00:27:50.000 So the whole spine is fused?

00:27:51.000 Yep.

00:27:52.000 Wow.

00:27:53.000 Neck and back.

00:27:54.000 How much mobility do you have?

00:27:57.000 I mean, I can still, you know...

00:28:00.000 Bend over and tie my shoe and do all that kind of stuff.

00:28:03.000 But your back is one solid piece?

00:28:06.000 Yeah.

00:28:06.000 So there's no articulation of your discs in your spine?

00:28:11.000 No.

00:28:12.000 Nothing?

00:28:13.000 Wow.

00:28:14.000 Nothing like that.

00:28:15.000 What does that feel like?

00:28:18.000 I mean, I guess it just feels kind of normal after a while.

00:28:21.000 You get used to it.

00:28:23.000 It happens over time, so it's like a gradual thing.

00:28:28.000 It's not all of a sudden.

00:28:30.000 So it's just like one day, you know, I used to be able to just bend over and do all these stretches, these crazy stretches.

00:28:38.000 Well, I can't do all that no more.

00:28:41.000 I can just bend over a little bit and do a minor stretch.

00:28:46.000 Now, are the doctors, are they confident that this is the last one?

00:28:52.000 I mean, you've got them all fused.

00:28:55.000 Yeah, it's always something, though.

00:28:58.000 When you're an athlete and you're always working out and always in the gym, it's going to always be something.

00:29:03.000 You just accept that?

00:29:04.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:29:06.000 Get used to it after a while.

00:29:08.000 For a lot of people, that's a hard thing to accept, this idea that you're just going to keep smashing your body.

00:29:13.000 But that's just you.

00:29:15.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:29:16.000 I got used to it now.

00:29:18.000 It's been like, oh, seven, 13 years now.

00:29:24.000 Wow.

00:29:24.000 Now, are you in this wheelchair all the time?

00:29:28.000 No, no.

00:29:29.000 I don't have crutches.

00:29:30.000 It's just that I left them at home.

00:29:35.000 I can walk maybe about from here to that wall unassisted.

00:29:40.000 But, you know, after being up for so long, my legs get real weak.

00:29:47.000 And is it because of your back?

00:29:49.000 Yeah, because of my back.

00:29:50.000 Is it something that's like cutting off the nerves or something?

00:29:54.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:29:55.000 Wow.

00:29:55.000 Cutting off the nerves, yeah.

00:29:57.000 And is there anything they can do about that?

00:30:00.000 I mean, you know, maybe one day they'll come out with something that'll help get it stronger.

00:30:07.000 I was thinking about trying the stem cell thing.

00:30:09.000 Like I said, that should help a lot too, right there.

00:30:13.000 Well, there's a bunch of places that they do it where they could do it with a lot stronger stem cells than they could do in America.

00:30:20.000 A place in Colombia does it, and there's a place in Panama that I actually sent my mom.

00:30:25.000 My mom, they wanted to give her a knee replacement, and doctors, they want to operate right away, and I was like, let me see if we can send you down to Panama.

00:30:37.000 Let me see if Dr. Reardon, he'd been in here before with Mel Gibson, and he was talking about Mel Gibson's dad, and Mel Gibson's dad was in real bad shape when he was 92. And then now he's 100, and he's fine.

00:30:49.000 I mean, he's gone back there a bunch of times, keeps going back for stem cells.

00:30:53.000 Long story short, my mom was scheduled to get a knee replacement. 0.99

00:30:57.000 I sent her down to Panama, and six months later, it started to feel good.

00:31:01.000 Eight months later, no pain at all.

00:31:03.000 It really did a great...

00:31:05.000 And then I sent her down a second time. 0.99

00:31:06.000 It's pretty amazing stuff, what they can do.

00:31:08.000 Yeah.

00:31:09.000 So that's my thing to do next.

00:31:12.000 Yeah.

00:31:12.000 And people I talk to, they think it will do me a lot of good.

00:31:18.000 So is it there's scar tissue around the nerves that's pushing against the nerves now?

00:31:23.000 Because if all the discs are gone and everything's fused, what's irritating the nerves?

00:31:28.000 Scar tissue, all that hardware.

00:31:32.000 I got 14 screws, two cages.

00:31:37.000 I got two rods about this long in there too.

00:31:42.000 So it's a lot of hardware, a lot of cages.

00:31:47.000 What do the cages look like?

00:31:50.000 So it's a cage around your spine?

00:31:52.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:31:53.000 What's the purpose of that?

00:31:56.000 I hold this together.

00:31:57.000 Keep them in place.

00:31:59.000 After a while, they don't want them to come loose, so they put cages around them.

00:32:05.000 Keep them together.

00:32:06.000 So you're like Robocop in there.

00:32:07.000 Yeah, pretty much.

00:32:08.000 So I got that in my neck and back.

00:32:12.000 You have a cage in your neck?

00:32:13.000 Yeah, uh-huh. 1.00

00:32:14.000 You got an x-ray of any of this shit? 1.00

00:32:16.000 Yeah, I sure do. 0.99

00:32:17.000 Where is it at?

00:32:17.000 Is it online?

00:32:19.000 I have posted it a couple times online, yeah.

00:32:21.000 On your Instagram page?

00:32:22.000 Yeah, uh-huh.

00:32:23.000 See if you can find any of that, Jamie.

00:32:25.000 That's crazy.

00:32:26.000 Yeah.

00:32:26.000 You're just laughing about it.

00:32:28.000 Like, you're fine with it.

00:32:29.000 Well, you get used to it after one.

00:32:30.000 But is it also that you look at, like, you're a legitimate legend, and so do you look at it like, hey, this is the price that I paid to be a legend?

00:32:41.000 I look at it like, hey, I'm still alive and I can still work out every day.

00:32:46.000 I'm still normal, so I'm good.

00:32:49.000 Wow.

00:32:50.000 That's a great, healthy attitude, man.

00:32:53.000 You're obviously still huge.

00:32:54.000 You're still very strong.

00:32:56.000 Well, I'm not as strong as I used to be.

00:32:58.000 I'm not as big as I used to be either.

00:32:59.000 I'm only like 250 now, you know.

00:33:01.000 But when you say that, You're judging it on you being a multiple-time Mr. Olympia.

00:33:07.000 That's not a regular person saying, I'm not as big as I used to be.

00:33:11.000 Like, you can't stay that big.

00:33:12.000 It's not possible.

00:33:13.000 No, no, no way.

00:33:15.000 I can't eat like that no more.

00:33:18.000 I bet it's nice to just be able to eat when you want.

00:33:20.000 I don't eat half the food I used to eat.

00:33:22.000 I can only imagine.

00:33:23.000 I used to eat six.

00:33:26.000 I only eat three now.

00:33:27.000 That's a normal person.

00:33:28.000 Yeah.

00:33:30.000 You got anything, Jamie?

00:33:32.000 Oh, that's going to be hard to find.

00:33:33.000 There it is.

00:33:34.000 Oh, my God.

00:33:36.000 That's crazy.

00:33:37.000 That's what a cage looks like?

00:33:39.000 Uh-huh.

00:33:39.000 Yeah.

00:33:41.000 Wow.

00:33:42.000 That stuff's heavy-duty.

00:33:44.000 The size of those screws in that picture on the left.

00:33:47.000 Yeah, they're about...

00:33:49.000 Three inches long.

00:33:52.000 Two to three inches long.

00:33:54.000 And they got screws on the end of them.

00:33:57.000 Bolts on the end of them. 0.97

00:33:58.000 You can see on the end right here.

00:34:00.000 On that one.

00:34:02.000 Those are bolts right there.

00:34:05.000 Those are big screws in between there too.

00:34:08.000 Wow.

00:34:10.000 Yeah, that goes all the way up.

00:34:13.000 All the way up your whole back. 0.57

00:34:15.000 To my neck.

00:34:17.000 My neck is the same way.

00:34:19.000 Wow.

00:34:20.000 Four, three, four, five and six. 0.58

00:34:23.000 And so in doing this, they've saved your back, but all the hardware is what's fucking with your nerves.

00:34:30.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:34:31.000 All the hardware, yeah.

00:34:32.000 It's pinching on the nerves, causing pain and stuff.

00:34:36.000 And what does the doctor say about that stuff?

00:34:38.000 I ain't nothing they can do about that.

00:34:39.000 It's just going to be like that.

00:34:42.000 They say they can take your screws up maybe one day, but it's a major surgery to do that.

00:34:47.000 Yeah.

00:34:48.000 You know, they got to cut me from all the way top to bottom and...

00:34:52.000 You know, take all those out.

00:34:53.000 There's 14 of them.

00:34:55.000 That started from the top all the way down to the bottom.

00:34:58.000 Would that be possible that if they did that it would alleviate some of the pinching on your nerves?

00:35:02.000 Yeah, yeah, for sure.

00:35:03.000 Have you thought about it?

00:35:04.000 Yeah, I just went to the doctor and talked to him about it last week.

00:35:08.000 Oh yeah, what does he say?

00:35:08.000 He said, I got another herniated disc.

00:35:10.000 Oh boy.

00:35:12.000 And they need to fix that before they think about taking it out.

00:35:15.000 And where's the one that's herniated, the new one that's herniated?

00:35:16.000 It's up top.

00:35:18.000 See, the lower ones are already fused.

00:35:20.000 Just the one on the top is the one that's herniated now.

00:35:24.000 Now, is it bulging or is it herniated?

00:35:29.000 He said herniated, so...

00:35:30.000 Pushing out.

00:35:32.000 I had a bulging disc that I had fixed with something called Regenikine.

00:35:35.000 Have you ever heard of Regenikine?

00:35:37.000 No.

00:35:38.000 They invented it down in Germany, and a lot of athletes like Kobe Bryant and Peyton Manning, they all went to Germany.

00:35:46.000 It's like this blood-spinning procedure.

00:35:49.000 Have you heard of it?

00:35:49.000 Yeah, I've heard of it.

00:35:50.000 They do it in America now.

00:35:52.000 They have an office in Dallas.

00:35:53.000 They have an office in Santa Monica.

00:35:55.000 And I went to the one in Santa Monica.

00:35:57.000 And they take your blood out.

00:36:00.000 They spin it, and they apply some medication to it.

00:36:04.000 And then it becomes this yellow serum, and then they inject the yellow serum directly into the area where the disc is.

00:36:10.000 And it alleviates all the inflammation, and the disc slowly goes back into place.

00:36:15.000 For me, within two weeks, I had extreme relief.

00:36:20.000 Within two weeks.

00:36:21.000 And then now there's no bulging disc at all.

00:36:24.000 I went back a couple...

00:36:25.000 After I did the full round of treatments, which I think was...

00:36:28.000 If I remember correctly, five or six different treatments.

00:36:31.000 I went back, I got a new MRI, and there's no bulge anymore.

00:36:35.000 Yeah, that's sort of like what they do when they do PRP. Yes, it is like PRP. It's just more advanced.

00:36:40.000 It's just another level of PRP. They do the injection thing.

00:36:43.000 Did you do the PRP? Yeah, I did all that.

00:36:45.000 Did that help your neck at all?

00:36:47.000 No, it didn't do anything for me.

00:36:49.000 They did my neck and back, actually.

00:36:51.000 Well, I would wonder what would help you, like stem cells and...

00:36:56.000 Yeah, that's going to be pretty much the only thing that's going to help me, I think.

00:37:02.000 So all the stuff with your legs, though, that wasn't the case before the screws and before all the...

00:37:07.000 No, no, no.

00:37:08.000 Yeah, I would imagine that's what's going on, man.

00:37:10.000 It's all fused up, right?

00:37:12.000 It doesn't have to be screwed in, right?

00:37:14.000 No, no.

00:37:15.000 That's why I went to the doctor, because they said after about a couple years, everything would be fused up, and I could take the screws out.

00:37:23.000 So does the doctor want to operate on your neck as well?

00:37:26.000 No, he just fixed my neck a year ago.

00:37:28.000 But the new bulge?

00:37:29.000 Yeah, this is a new bulge in my back now.

00:37:31.000 Oh, it's in your back?

00:37:32.000 Yeah, this is in my back, yeah.

00:37:35.000 That's why, that was the result of a CAT scan I had done last week. 0.98

00:37:42.000 Damn, dude, you're at a hospital like every couple weeks? 0.91

00:37:47.000 No, it seems like it though, but I was just wanting to get the screws out because I'm, you know, it's been a long time and still in pain and like I said, still pinching me and still got, you know, nerves being pinched. 0.99

00:38:02.000 My legs are numb too.

00:38:05.000 My foot's totally numb.

00:38:08.000 I was thinking maybe if I took the screws out, I'd get some of this numbness to go away.

00:38:14.000 I'd get some strength back also.

00:38:16.000 Do you think you're going to wind up doing that?

00:38:19.000 If possible.

00:38:20.000 One day I would like to.

00:38:21.000 Man, I'm hoping someone hears this that's a specialist that has a solution for you.

00:38:25.000 How many different doctors have you seen?

00:38:30.000 One.

00:38:31.000 Just the one doctor?

00:38:32.000 Just the one.

00:38:34.000 Is that a local guy near you?

00:38:36.000 Yeah, yeah, a local guy.

00:38:39.000 In Fort Worth, Texas.

00:38:42.000 Also, my first surgery, probably like my fourth or fifth one, they operated on me for about 13 hours.

00:38:53.000 They cut me in the front, turned me over on the side, cut me on the side, And then they put me on my back and cut me on my back.

00:39:02.000 Jesus.

00:39:04.000 And that gave me a lot of problems.

00:39:07.000 That started the immobility thing right there.

00:39:10.000 And what was this surgery?

00:39:11.000 I was good until I did that surgery.

00:39:14.000 What kind of surgery was that?

00:39:15.000 Was it another fusion?

00:39:16.000 Yeah.

00:39:17.000 Why did they have to cut you in so many places?

00:39:19.000 Because they had to fuse so many discs.

00:39:24.000 Put in so many screws.

00:39:27.000 And that was in 15, I think.

00:39:31.000 Wow.

00:39:32.000 In 16, December 15, I remember getting off the plane in Russia.

00:39:37.000 In Russia?

00:39:38.000 Yeah.

00:39:38.000 You got that done in Russia?

00:39:39.000 No, no, I remember getting off the plane in Russia, and I'm like, man, my back is hurting.

00:39:44.000 And I was walking fine to the hotel.

00:39:48.000 The next day, my mobility got worse.

00:39:53.000 And the day after, I was on crushes.

00:39:57.000 And I've been on them ever since.

00:39:59.000 Just so out of nowhere?

00:40:01.000 Out of nowhere, yeah.

00:40:02.000 And how far out from the surgery was this?

00:40:05.000 The surgery was like the next month.

00:40:08.000 Oh, so this is before the surgery?

00:40:10.000 Yeah, this is before, yeah.

00:40:11.000 Okay, so then they cut you open the front, the side, the back, and then everything's downhill from there.

00:40:17.000 Yeah, everything went downhill from there.

00:40:19.000 Man, I'm really hoping that somebody listens to this and some doctor hears about this.

00:40:24.000 Well, one thing is you're in Fort Worth.

00:40:26.000 Dr. Reardon, his office is in Dallas.

00:40:28.000 That's pretty close to you.

00:40:29.000 Yeah, that's very close to me.

00:40:30.000 I'd love to connect you to him and see if there's anything that he could do.

00:40:34.000 Yeah, that would be nice.

00:40:36.000 Because I'm always looking to get better because these crutches are getting...

00:40:42.000 On my nerves.

00:40:43.000 I can only imagine.

00:40:44.000 After five years now.

00:40:46.000 And a guy who was the level of athlete that you were when you were in your prime.

00:40:50.000 Exactly.

00:40:51.000 And how old are you now?

00:40:52.000 I just turned 56 two weeks ago.

00:40:55.000 You look great.

00:40:57.000 Well, I'm still working out every day and eating good.

00:41:02.000 Yeah, it would be nice if they could do something to turn this back around.

00:41:07.000 I like to get my strength back.

00:41:08.000 Yeah, I guarantee Dr. Reardon could probably help.

00:41:11.000 Yeah.

00:41:12.000 I don't want to guarantee, but he's a real expert in, you know, stem cells and the benefits of stem cells.

00:41:19.000 Well, maybe I'll give him a call one day.

00:41:21.000 Yeah, I'll connect you two for sure.

00:41:22.000 So what's a normal day like for you these days?

00:41:26.000 Well, I got four kids at home.

00:41:29.000 Five, six, eight, nine.

00:41:34.000 So that keeps you busy.

00:41:36.000 That keeps me extremely busy.

00:41:41.000 I'm taking them to Burger King every day.

00:41:45.000 And I'm just riding around with them doing what I do.

00:41:51.000 If I go to the car wash, wash the car, they're with me.

00:41:55.000 I go to a friend's house with them.

00:41:58.000 They're with me.

00:42:00.000 And most of the time you're just walking on these crutches?

00:42:02.000 Yeah, I'm always on the crutches.

00:42:06.000 So yeah, I hang out with them all day now.

00:42:10.000 That's my day.

00:42:12.000 Before, you know, I was on the road every other weekend, or every two weeks.

00:42:18.000 Seminars and things like that.

00:42:19.000 Seminars, you know, all that kind of stuff, appearances.

00:42:22.000 But since the virus, I've been hanging with them.

00:42:26.000 They've become my best friend.

00:42:28.000 Are you enjoying that?

00:42:29.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:42:30.000 There's something that a lot of people have found some enjoyment from this, being locked at home.

00:42:35.000 Yeah, it's a lot of fun, yeah.

00:42:36.000 Yeah.

00:42:37.000 Because it forces you to take time off.

00:42:39.000 Yeah, I got used to it now.

00:42:40.000 I got lazy.

00:42:43.000 Now I just want to stay home now.

00:42:45.000 Well, there's something nice about being home a lot.

00:42:47.000 I mean, I've only been on the road a couple times since this lockdown.

00:42:52.000 There's a lot of niceness about being home.

00:42:54.000 It's nice, yeah.

00:42:55.000 And the big thing for me that I found is health.

00:42:57.000 Like, you feel better because you're not traveling all the time.

00:43:00.000 Exactly.

00:43:01.000 Well, you know, I don't get sick, so...

00:43:04.000 You don't get sick ever?

00:43:05.000 No, no, never.

00:43:07.000 Really?

00:43:07.000 No.

00:43:08.000 Wow.

00:43:09.000 I can remember like two or three days of my life I've been sick.

00:43:12.000 The way you said it was funny.

00:43:13.000 I don't get sick.

00:43:15.000 Like, you're not talking about I don't usually get sick.

00:43:17.000 Like, I don't get sick.

00:43:18.000 No, I don't really get sick.

00:43:21.000 Wow.

00:43:21.000 I don't get colds and flu and all that kind of stuff.

00:43:24.000 I've had like a stomach flu like two or three times in my life.

00:43:28.000 Wow.

00:43:29.000 That's about it.

00:43:30.000 But traveling on the road does wear you out though, right?

00:43:33.000 Like get a little run down.

00:43:35.000 You get used to it.

00:43:36.000 Yeah?

00:43:36.000 Yeah, you get used to it.

00:43:38.000 Did you have any strategies to like beat jet lag or anything like that?

00:43:40.000 I didn't get jet lag after a while.

00:43:43.000 You don't get colds.

00:43:45.000 You didn't get jet lag.

00:43:46.000 Yeah, when I first started traveling, I used to get it.

00:43:49.000 But after a while, you don't get it anymore.

00:43:52.000 Did you just get used to it?

00:43:52.000 You just get used to it.

00:43:54.000 So when you would land somewhere, would you just immediately work out?

00:43:56.000 Go to the gym.

00:43:57.000 Yeah, that's the move, right?

00:43:57.000 I'd get off the plane and go to the gym.

00:43:59.000 That does reset you.

00:44:00.000 Yeah.

00:44:00.000 Yeah, that's my favorite thing to do.

00:44:02.000 I'd land in a hotel room.

00:44:03.000 I have it set up like, you know, after you eat, you brush your teeth.

00:44:08.000 When I land, I go to the gym.

00:44:10.000 That's what I do.

00:44:11.000 Yeah.

00:44:12.000 That is one way. 0.99

00:44:13.000 It sucks. 0.93

00:44:14.000 Like, you're tired, you're worn out from travel, but if you can force yourself, you feel a lot better. 0.97

00:44:18.000 Well, I've made it to where I can sleep on the airplane.

00:44:22.000 And I sleep pretty good.

00:44:24.000 So by the time I get to where I'm going, you know, I'm all rested up.

00:44:28.000 I'm good to go.

00:44:29.000 Now, when you were competing, were you, I mean, you're eating all these meals a day.

00:44:34.000 Were you drinking a shitload of water, too?

00:44:37.000 Like, how much water are you drinking? 0.77

00:44:39.000 Like a shitload of water.

00:44:41.000 Like you said, I was drinking like two or three gallons a day.

00:44:44.000 Two or three gallons a day.

00:44:45.000 The gym I worked at, there's no AC, and it's 105, 110 sometimes.

00:44:51.000 Oh, it's in Fort Worth?

00:44:52.000 It's in Arlington, which is right next to Fort Worth. 0.99

00:44:55.000 That's hot as fuck. 0.98

00:44:56.000 Yeah, exactly. 0.99

00:44:58.000 And then I worked for the police department.

00:44:59.000 I had this vest on all the time, so I was drenched every day after work.

00:45:04.000 So I'm always drinking water there.

00:45:07.000 So you have to drink a lot of water.

00:45:10.000 You have to.

00:45:11.000 As far as supplements and nutrition and vitamins and things along those lines, you were talking about what you ate, but what other stuff would you take?

00:45:19.000 I had a nutritionist, so he did my whole plan.

00:45:24.000 Some of the stuff I don't even remember.

00:45:29.000 But it was quite a bit of stuff.

00:45:31.000 Was it based on blood work?

00:45:33.000 Did you do your blood work?

00:45:34.000 Yeah, I did blood work probably like three times a year.

00:45:40.000 He made sure I got plenty of vitamins and plenty of minerals and other things.

00:45:46.000 Because I didn't like vegetables, so he would kind of supplement vitamins and stuff for that.

00:45:55.000 You didn't eat vegetables at all?

00:45:56.000 At all.

00:45:57.000 Really?

00:45:57.000 No.

00:45:58.000 Some people think you don't need them.

00:46:00.000 There's a whole...

00:46:01.000 That was me.

00:46:02.000 There's a bunch of people that are on what's called a carnivore diet.

00:46:05.000 Have you heard that?

00:46:06.000 Yeah, that's me.

00:46:08.000 Yeah, there's a bunch of people that don't eat vegetables.

00:46:11.000 They basically mostly eat meat.

00:46:13.000 Yeah, I would eat baked potato and...

00:46:20.000 Rice?

00:46:21.000 That was about it.

00:46:22.000 But why is it mostly chicken?

00:46:24.000 Why do bodybuilders mostly eat chicken?

00:46:26.000 Because it's so lean?

00:46:27.000 Lean, yeah.

00:46:28.000 Lean.

00:46:29.000 Chicken breast, you know, it's the leanest you can get pretty much.

00:46:32.000 I also had steak at least once a day, also.

00:46:36.000 Lean steak, you know, like filet mignon.

00:46:39.000 So I'd eat chicken three times a day, turkey also, and steak.

00:46:45.000 Now, when the competition was over and you won, did you pig out?

00:46:50.000 Did you go crazy? 0.85

00:46:50.000 I went crazy. 0.85

00:46:52.000 Every single time.

00:46:53.000 I started out at Pizza Hut.

00:46:56.000 I'd eat that first, and I had that in the room when I got back.

00:47:01.000 As soon as Pizza Hut was over, I went to McDonald's.

00:47:04.000 I pig out there.

00:47:06.000 And when we got left there, I went straight to Strip Club. 0.98

00:47:11.000 And pig out there? 1.00

00:47:12.000 And pig out there. 1.00

00:47:17.000 Now, how long would you do this before you get back to work? 0.98

00:47:20.000 Oh, just that night.

00:47:21.000 Just one night?

00:47:22.000 Yeah.

00:47:23.000 And then back to the gym on Monday?

00:47:25.000 No, no, no.

00:47:25.000 I took three months off after that.

00:47:26.000 Oh, three months.

00:47:27.000 Really?

00:47:28.000 Three months with no lifting at all?

00:47:30.000 No lifting.

00:47:30.000 No nothing.

00:47:31.000 I ate what I wanted to eat.

00:47:33.000 I didn't work out.

00:47:35.000 I didn't do cardio.

00:47:36.000 Nothing.

00:47:37.000 Why did you take that much time off?

00:47:39.000 Because I felt I needed it.

00:47:41.000 Really?

00:47:41.000 Yeah.

00:47:42.000 I was kind of like, you know, recharging the battery.

00:47:46.000 Because I knew once I started back, there wasn't going to be no, you know, Is it weird to make that transition from this crazy Spartan life of 12 weeks of just hardcore training to boom!

00:48:04.000 Shut it off.

00:48:05.000 No.

00:48:06.000 Three months.

00:48:06.000 No.

00:48:07.000 That was nice?

00:48:08.000 After that 12 weeks of hardcore training, you're looking for a break.

00:48:12.000 I would imagine.

00:48:13.000 Yeah.

00:48:14.000 And you know, I had also worked out before that too.

00:48:18.000 So I take off.

00:48:20.000 See, the show's always in...

00:48:23.000 September.

00:48:23.000 So it's like October, November, December, nothing.

00:48:28.000 And then January, start back up.

00:48:30.000 And then when you start back up?

00:48:31.000 Go all the way to September.

00:48:33.000 And when you would start back up, do you start back up full force, hardcore?

00:48:37.000 Start all over.

00:48:39.000 Start all over?

00:48:40.000 Start all over.

00:48:41.000 Wow.

00:48:42.000 So you just had it down to a science?

00:48:44.000 Yeah.

00:48:44.000 You knew what to do and when to do it?

00:48:45.000 Yeah, because I hurt myself that one time.

00:48:49.000 Well, I didn't start all over.

00:48:51.000 So you learn from your mistakes.

00:48:53.000 That was when you hurt your back?

00:48:54.000 Yeah.

00:48:55.000 When you stopped, when you retired for good?

00:48:58.000 Was that difficult to do?

00:49:00.000 Is it difficult to change your life?

00:49:02.000 That's still difficult to do.

00:49:03.000 Still?

00:49:03.000 Yeah.

00:49:04.000 Yeah, I miss working in the police department and competing.

00:49:09.000 Both.

00:49:11.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:49:12.000 I miss them tremendously.

00:49:14.000 Just because of the action?

00:49:16.000 Yeah.

00:49:16.000 Yeah?

00:49:17.000 Mm-hmm.

00:49:18.000 Having a purpose, basically.

00:49:23.000 Yeah.

00:49:24.000 Obviously, this is a crazy time for the police.

00:49:27.000 Oh yeah, it wasn't like that when I was pleased.

00:49:29.000 Yeah.

00:49:29.000 What was it like?

00:49:30.000 Oh, it was much easier.

00:49:32.000 Well, where you were was probably a more relaxed place? 0.91

00:49:36.000 It was some crazy people.

00:49:37.000 Yeah?

00:49:38.000 Yeah.

00:49:39.000 We had a lot of crazy people, actually. 0.87

00:49:41.000 A lot of crazy people. 0.97

00:49:43.000 I didn't know people were that crazy until you joined the force. 0.92

00:49:46.000 Yeah, we had what...

00:49:47.000 We started with 300-something thousand when I got there.

00:49:51.000 When I retired, it was about almost 600,000 people.

00:49:55.000 The city grew that big over, what, 15 years?

00:50:01.000 Yeah.

00:50:01.000 So I worked there over 15 years.

00:50:03.000 Well, we're in the middle of a crazy time when it comes to police and police brutality, and did you see a lot of that shit when you were on the job? 0.99

00:50:11.000 No. 1.00

00:50:11.000 No? 1.00

00:50:12.000 No, we didn't...

00:50:13.000 You didn't have to mistreat people back then, at least me.

00:50:18.000 And most of the guys I worked with, we were all professionals.

00:50:21.000 Everybody had to have a four-year degree.

00:50:28.000 The use of force was appropriately applied.

00:50:35.000 So I remember I got in trouble a couple times.

00:50:40.000 Well, one time I got in trouble.

00:50:44.000 I almost used too much force on the guy.

00:50:48.000 But I was vindicated and all I did was just bend his arm back Put handcuffs on him, but in the process of doing that, he got a bloody nose and a bloody mouth and arm ripped out of socket a little bit.

00:51:02.000 But, you know, you're just doing what you had to do to, you know.

00:51:06.000 Subdue him.

00:51:07.000 Yeah, subdue him, yeah. 0.76

00:51:09.000 So that was the only time that I really got, you know, used to force filed against me.

00:51:17.000 And I got a letter of commendation out of that.

00:51:19.000 Because I was a writer back in the day.

00:51:22.000 I used to write for the college newspaper.

00:51:25.000 And I was sports editor also.

00:51:28.000 So I was good at writing.

00:51:30.000 I could write real good.

00:51:32.000 And I could apply use of force techniques that they taught me in the academy.

00:51:37.000 So that report that I wrote on that use of force complaint, they used that report to train recruits.

00:51:47.000 Do you think that that's what's wrong with these abusive cops?

00:51:50.000 Do you think it's a lack of training?

00:51:52.000 Or do you think it's hiring the wrong people for the job?

00:51:55.000 What do you think it is?

00:51:57.000 Hiring the wrong people for the job.

00:51:59.000 That job is so stressful.

00:52:02.000 Yeah.

00:52:02.000 I mean, you have to be real confident in your abilities to protect yourself.

00:52:09.000 And I was very, very confident.

00:52:13.000 I never had to even use my nightstick on anybody.

00:52:17.000 Well, you know, come on.

00:52:22.000 I went to, sometimes I would go to work looking for a fight.

00:52:26.000 And I was so bored, you know.

00:52:30.000 And it never happened.

00:52:32.000 Nobody never fought me.

00:52:33.000 What's the size of you, man?

00:52:34.000 And then, so all the guys that was half my size, I would just run to their fights.

00:52:43.000 Try to help them out?

00:52:44.000 Help them out, yeah.

00:52:46.000 Because nobody would ever fight me.

00:52:47.000 I'm like, oh man.

00:52:49.000 Still?

00:52:50.000 Still?

00:52:51.000 What do you mean still?

00:52:51.000 You're 300 pounds.

00:52:53.000 Well, that's when I was in my twos.

00:52:54.000 Oh, the 290. Yeah, 215 when I first got there.

00:52:58.000 Oh, okay.

00:52:59.000 220, 230, 240, 250. Yeah.

00:53:02.000 Now, of course, you know, the heavier I got, I didn't expect it then, but...

00:53:08.000 When I was in my twos, I thought, for sure, somebody.

00:53:11.000 But I had, like I said, I had 22-inch arms.

00:53:13.000 Right.

00:53:14.000 You know, I had those uniforms that were tailor-made, so my arms stuck out.

00:53:18.000 Do you think that, I mean, there's all this talk now of defunding the police.

00:53:22.000 I keep hearing this about defunding the police.

00:53:24.000 Yeah, I've been hearing that too, but I don't know if I can't agree with that.

00:53:30.000 Because you need the police.

00:53:32.000 You need the police.

00:53:33.000 I agree.

00:53:35.000 You can't defund the police.

00:53:38.000 There are people that really need the police.

00:53:41.000 I never need it, but I went on a lot of calls where I needed to be there.

00:53:48.000 So I don't know if I really agree with that.

00:53:52.000 I think they've got to get rid of abusive cops. 0.98

00:53:55.000 That's what they've got to do.

00:53:56.000 They've got to get rid of the Bad apples.

00:54:00.000 Yeah.

00:54:00.000 Once you get rid of the bad apples, then...

00:54:04.000 I think it's all good.

00:54:05.000 I try to explain to people when I talk about it, I'm like, you gotta understand that there's millions of interactions that people have with cops every day, and most of them are positive.

00:54:13.000 Most of them are positive. 1.00

00:54:14.000 If you get 100 people in a room, just 100 random people in a room, what are the odds that one of them is a fucking idiot? 1.00

00:54:20.000 It's pretty good, right? 1.00

00:54:22.000 Well, that's the same thing with cops.

00:54:24.000 I don't know how many millions of cops there are in this country. 0.93

00:54:26.000 I don't know what the number is, but...

00:54:29.000 You're going to have a certain amount of cops that should never have that job. 0.98

00:54:32.000 They're bullies, they're mean, they're sociopaths, they're undisciplined, they're abusive. 0.96

00:54:40.000 Yeah, they're not built for that job. 0.99

00:54:41.000 That job is not for everybody.

00:54:43.000 It takes a strong mind.

00:54:44.000 It takes a strong mind.

00:54:46.000 It takes a lot of heart.

00:54:47.000 And how many cops do you think are dealing with just crippling PTSD every day?

00:54:53.000 It all depends on where you are, I think.

00:54:56.000 Like New York City?

00:54:57.000 Yeah, like New York, L.A., you know.

00:55:00.000 Detroit?

00:55:01.000 Yeah.

00:55:01.000 Chicago?

00:55:02.000 Chicago, yeah.

00:55:03.000 Places like that, yeah.

00:55:04.000 I can see it.

00:55:06.000 I was just reading a story about Chicago that over one weekend, 25 people were murdered.

00:55:12.000 Yeah.

00:55:12.000 So we had about six, seven a year where I'm from.

00:55:16.000 That's a lot better number.

00:55:17.000 Yeah.

00:55:18.000 They probably have six, seven a day.

00:55:20.000 Yeah, I mean, 25 in a weekend is just crazy.

00:55:23.000 That's the craziest thing you ever hear.

00:55:25.000 Chicago's bad.

00:55:26.000 It's bad.

00:55:28.000 Unimaginable bad.

00:55:30.000 So if you're a cop and you're in an environment like that, you're essentially in a war zone.

00:55:34.000 Kind of.

00:55:35.000 Yeah.

00:55:36.000 I bet you don't look forward to going to work every day like I did when I worked.

00:55:40.000 Well, now today, people are so mad at cops that they just want to openly disrespect them and yell at them.

00:55:47.000 But some people know the good cops.

00:55:49.000 Yes. 0.99

00:55:50.000 Some people do, but some people use it as an excuse to say that all cops suck. 0.96

00:55:55.000 And, you know, that guy that, I don't remember his name, that guy that killed George Floyd, that guy is an example of everything that's wrong about police officers. 0.97

00:56:05.000 Everything that's wrong.

00:56:06.000 Everything that's wrong.

00:56:06.000 He'd been doing it a long time.

00:56:08.000 He'd been abusing people for a long time.

00:56:10.000 He had a bunch of complaints against him.

00:56:12.000 17 complaints is what I heard.

00:56:13.000 Yeah, but yet they kept him on.

00:56:15.000 Kept him on.

00:56:16.000 I don't think you could have more than like two or three where I'm from.

00:56:20.000 That's how it should be.

00:56:22.000 We don't have unions and all that kind of stuff either.

00:56:25.000 Once they fire you, you out of there.

00:56:27.000 A lot of guys got fired for bad reports.

00:56:32.000 One guy told me he got fired for not writing enough tickets. 0.99

00:56:37.000 That's fucked up. 0.99

00:56:39.000 What? 0.99

00:56:40.000 That doesn't make any sense to me because what if nobody speeds?

00:56:43.000 They say you have to write X amount of tickets per week.

00:56:46.000 What if everybody follows the rules?

00:56:48.000 That's the first time I ever heard that.

00:56:50.000 That's the first time.

00:56:52.000 I'm still kind of reluctant to believe that.

00:56:56.000 I should have asked somebody that was in higher power.

00:57:02.000 When I worked, they always told me, you need to write more tickets.

00:57:07.000 I'm like, okay.

00:57:08.000 So I go out and write a ticket.

00:57:10.000 I'll be done with it.

00:57:11.000 That's more tickets.

00:57:15.000 That's one more than I had on my last review.

00:57:19.000 So, but they never say, we're going to fire you, you know, if you're going to write a certain amount.

00:57:23.000 Maybe there's other things as well.

00:57:25.000 Yeah.

00:57:26.000 But is it a different police department you worked for?

00:57:29.000 Arlington Police Department?

00:57:30.000 No, the guy, the other guy that you were talking about.

00:57:32.000 He worked for the same one.

00:57:33.000 That's why.

00:57:34.000 Maybe they were just trying to get rid of him.

00:57:36.000 It had to be.

00:57:37.000 Yeah.

00:57:38.000 It was probably something he did, you know.

00:57:40.000 Because, you know, a couple guys I worked with, they got in trouble once.

00:57:46.000 And they're like, no more.

00:57:48.000 And you get in trouble again, they fire you.

00:57:52.000 Because they told you no more, you know.

00:57:55.000 They're real strict where I work, you know.

00:57:57.000 I think that's how they have to be.

00:57:59.000 You can't have no 17 complaints.

00:58:01.000 Two or three and you're out of there.

00:58:03.000 That makes sense.

00:58:04.000 You are out.

00:58:05.000 Yeah, I mean, it's such a rough job to begin with.

00:58:07.000 Yeah, and I'm from a tourist town also.

00:58:10.000 You know, we got Six Flags, we got Cowboys, we got Rangers.

00:58:15.000 So you have to be good to the people there.

00:58:20.000 That makes sense.

00:58:22.000 Yeah.

00:58:22.000 That should be the whole country.

00:58:23.000 You can't be mistreating people.

00:58:24.000 That should be the whole country.

00:58:26.000 I think cops should get paid more money. 1.00

00:58:28.000 They should be treated better.

00:58:29.000 They should be trained better.

00:58:30.000 We got paid a lot of money, but we're like the top five in the state.

00:58:35.000 Always.

00:58:37.000 Well, I mean, I feel like that's the only way you're going to get really good people for the job.

00:58:42.000 And you have to have a four-year degree.

00:58:43.000 You can't have, like, two years in a diploma.

00:58:46.000 You can't have 20 years of service in another department and come work there.

00:58:51.000 You have to have a four-year degree.

00:58:54.000 So they want people educated, respectful, do a good job.

00:58:58.000 That should be the whole country.

00:59:00.000 I totally agree.

00:59:02.000 But you know how many guys would get hired if it was like that?

00:59:05.000 Not as many.

00:59:06.000 Not as many, yeah.

00:59:07.000 But shouldn't that, I mean, I just feel like we're at a tipping point in this country.

00:59:13.000 I totally agree.

00:59:14.000 I mean, it's real sad that the people you call to help you hurt you.

00:59:22.000 Yeah, and all the time.

00:59:25.000 All the time.

00:59:25.000 That's a sad, sad environment to be in.

00:59:29.000 Yeah, I mean, I feel like defunding is just going to make it worse.

00:59:34.000 Make it worse. 0.60

00:59:35.000 Yeah, and make these crime-ridden neighborhoods even more dangerous.

00:59:38.000 Yeah, you need police everywhere.

00:59:41.000 Yeah.

00:59:42.000 Everywhere.

00:59:43.000 And like I said, defunding is just going to make it worse.

00:59:47.000 You have to have a lot of resources.

00:59:49.000 You have to have a lot of training.

00:59:50.000 Yes.

00:59:51.000 It's a lot of training.

00:59:52.000 You have to be training all the time.

00:59:56.000 All the time.

00:59:57.000 No matter how many years you've been there, you have to be trained up all the time.

01:00:03.000 Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

01:00:05.000 I mean, it sounds horrible for people to hear, but I think they needed more funding.

01:00:08.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:00:09.000 Even though the police are fucked up, they need more education. 1.00

01:00:12.000 They need more money. 1.00

01:00:13.000 More money, more training.

01:00:15.000 Yeah.

01:00:15.000 And I feel like they should be trained the same way the military is trained.

01:00:18.000 And that way they weed out the weak people, too.

01:00:20.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:00:21.000 Weed out the people with the weak minds. 1.00

01:00:22.000 Weed out the bullies. 1.00

01:00:23.000 Weed out the sociopaths. 0.99

01:00:24.000 Yep.

01:00:26.000 But I guess it's just a hard job to get.

01:00:34.000 A not wanted job, I'll say. 0.98

01:00:36.000 Yeah, but I think there's also, in everything, every job there is, there's people that suck at it. 0.96

01:00:41.000 Yeah, that's true. 0.99

01:00:42.000 And you can't suck at being a cop. 0.99

01:00:46.000 You know, you just... 0.99

01:00:47.000 You can't, but like I said, it's...

01:00:50.000 A lot of people do.

01:00:51.000 Yeah.

01:00:52.000 And like I said, it's kind of hard to find good candidates sometimes.

01:00:56.000 Are you still in touch with all the guys in the force that you worked with?

01:01:00.000 No, all the guys I work with are retired.

01:01:02.000 Yeah, that was a while ago.

01:01:07.000 See, I started in 1989, so you gotta remember, that's what, 30-something years later?

01:01:13.000 So most of the guys retired, like, we had a 20-year retirement.

01:01:17.000 They must have really enjoyed having a guy like you as a cop on the forest.

01:01:22.000 Yeah, I did a lot of recruiting trips for the police department.

01:01:26.000 So they told me, when I won the Olympia, the chief said, you don't have to come work if you don't want to.

01:01:31.000 Really?

01:01:32.000 Yeah.

01:01:32.000 You could just get paid?

01:01:33.000 Yeah.

01:01:34.000 If I don't come to work, I don't get paid.

01:01:37.000 Oh. 0.99

01:01:38.000 What the fuck is that? 0.99

01:01:39.000 I was making a million dollars a year being Mr. Olympia. 0.99

01:01:43.000 So I don't need $45,000 from the police department or $50,000, whatever they was paying me.

01:01:51.000 So sometimes I didn't go to work.

01:01:54.000 Like when I got ready for the Olympia, I didn't go to work.

01:01:59.000 So they just let you take time off?

01:02:00.000 Mm-hmm.

01:02:01.000 And then after you'd win, you'd come back?

01:02:02.000 I'd go back to work, yeah.

01:02:03.000 Was it weird to go back to work?

01:02:05.000 No, no.

01:02:05.000 Yeah, I remember.

01:02:07.000 Did you ever get pulled up?

01:02:08.000 I loved that job.

01:02:09.000 I appreciate that you enjoyed that job. 0.97

01:02:11.000 But was there ever a time where you pull people over and they're like, holy shit, are you Ronnie Coleman? 0.97

01:02:15.000 Yep. 0.90

01:02:17.000 And that's why I quit pulling people over and writing tickets.

01:02:20.000 That's why?

01:02:21.000 Because of that?

01:02:21.000 What did they assign you to after that?

01:02:23.000 No, no.

01:02:23.000 I still worked patrol.

01:02:26.000 I just didn't pull people over.

01:02:27.000 Oh, I see.

01:02:28.000 You know, that's subjective.

01:02:30.000 That's something you want to do.

01:02:31.000 Oh, you make a decision.

01:02:33.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:02:33.000 You can always just answer calls.

01:02:37.000 There's always a disturbance.

01:02:38.000 There's always an accident.

01:02:40.000 I mean, there's always a fight.

01:02:42.000 Did you ever see the TV show where Steven Seagal was a cop?

01:02:45.000 No, never.

01:02:46.000 I couldn't watch any cop shows out of being one.

01:02:51.000 Really?

01:02:51.000 No, because that's what you do.

01:02:53.000 Right.

01:02:54.000 You don't want to see.

01:02:55.000 It's like something you do all the time.

01:02:57.000 You don't want to do it in your spare time.

01:02:59.000 I understand.

01:03:00.000 You're looking for other stuff to do.

01:03:01.000 Yeah.

01:03:02.000 It was a real funny show.

01:03:04.000 Yeah.

01:03:05.000 Steven Seagal was working as a real cop for a while.

01:03:09.000 I heard about it.

01:03:10.000 I heard about it. 1.00

01:03:10.000 It was the most ridiculous shit you've ever seen in your life. 1.00

01:03:13.000 He would pull people over and I'm like, are you fucking Steven Seagal? 1.00

01:03:18.000 And, you know, it was real weird, man. 0.98

01:03:22.000 All of a sudden, I mean, he was in Louisiana, so he adopted this fake Louisiana accent, like real heavy.

01:03:30.000 Yeah, it's a lot of heavy accents there.

01:03:32.000 But he all of a sudden had one.

01:03:34.000 You can develop it from being around those people.

01:03:37.000 I can imagine, but it seemed like he was just adding it.

01:03:42.000 Well, you know, he's a professional, trained actor.

01:03:44.000 But he was a real cop.

01:03:47.000 He was really pulling people over. 0.95

01:03:50.000 The whole thing was so ridiculous. 0.91

01:03:53.000 I guess he was bored. 0.98

01:03:54.000 I think he was bored.

01:03:55.000 I think he was, you know, in between movies.

01:03:57.000 Well, you know, that job can be pretty exciting.

01:03:59.000 It can be really exciting.

01:04:01.000 Look at him. 0.98

01:04:03.000 I mean, you imagine you're a guy, and you're in your house, and maybe you're smoking some weed, and the cops break down the door, and it's fucking Steven Seagal holding you down. 0.64

01:04:13.000 Well, yeah, most of the guys, they're trying to get away, so they're not looking at the guy.

01:04:18.000 I understand, but I mean, why are you getting cuffed? 0.99

01:04:21.000 You've got to be looking up going, what the fuck are you doing here, man? 0.94

01:04:26.000 I have video, maybe arresting some people on video also. 0.99

01:04:30.000 Oh, yeah?

01:04:31.000 Yeah, I would do these videos, maybe with training, and sometimes I would have a guy just follow me.

01:04:39.000 The whole shift.

01:04:40.000 And he would film me the whole shift.

01:04:42.000 And I was able to put some of them on tape.

01:04:46.000 I had to get approval from the police department.

01:04:48.000 Did you put them on YouTube or something?

01:04:50.000 Yeah.

01:04:50.000 Oh, so they're out there right now?

01:04:52.000 Yeah, out there right now.

01:04:52.000 Did you learn any martial arts or anything from the police department?

01:04:56.000 Yeah, of course.

01:04:56.000 What'd you learn?

01:04:57.000 I mean, they just taught you basic stuff.

01:04:59.000 How to take people down, pressure points and all that kind of stuff.

01:05:03.000 You know, so...

01:05:05.000 It's probably not a martial art.

01:05:06.000 It's just takedown techniques and stuff like that.

01:05:10.000 Pressure point.

01:05:11.000 I would imagine a guy like you just grabbing a hold of someone.

01:05:14.000 They must have felt like they were made out of pillows.

01:05:17.000 You know what?

01:05:18.000 To be honest with you, I never had to really grab anybody.

01:05:21.000 That's amazing.

01:05:22.000 Nobody never wanted to fight me.

01:05:24.000 That's one good argument for being a huge person.

01:05:29.000 Yeah.

01:05:30.000 It was real good and real bad.

01:05:33.000 Bad in the sense that, you know, I missed out on a lot of action.

01:05:39.000 Good in the sense that I missed out on a lot of action.

01:05:42.000 Bad and good at the same time, but you kind of itched for it a little bit.

01:05:46.000 I itched for it every single day.

01:05:48.000 Really?

01:05:49.000 You got to remember, I played football for 15 years, and you used to, you know, action.

01:05:54.000 Contact.

01:05:55.000 Contact, yeah.

01:05:56.000 So you kind of missed that after a while.

01:06:00.000 You want to engage them a little bit.

01:06:03.000 But you can't violate rights.

01:06:06.000 Of course.

01:06:07.000 So, you know.

01:06:08.000 Well, that shows amazing restraint that you wanted to do it every day, but you never did it.

01:06:12.000 Never did it.

01:06:12.000 Yeah.

01:06:13.000 Maybe they sensed that.

01:06:14.000 Maybe once or twice.

01:06:15.000 Maybe once or twice.

01:06:16.000 Yeah.

01:06:17.000 But nothing serious.

01:06:18.000 Nothing serious, you know.

01:06:20.000 Yeah.

01:06:20.000 I may have, you know...

01:06:22.000 You know, pull somebody's arm out of the socket or dislocate somebody's shoulder or something like that.

01:06:30.000 Just because they probably had weak joints.

01:06:32.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:06:33.000 There you are.

01:06:34.000 They said, well, yeah, they said some stuff.

01:06:35.000 Just imagine this dude walking into your house.

01:06:37.000 See, I got on shorts right there.

01:06:40.000 Look at the size of you!

01:06:41.000 Oh my God, you were so big.

01:06:43.000 That's so crazy.

01:06:45.000 315 pounds right there.

01:06:46.000 But it must have been so crazy for people.

01:06:49.000 2% body fat.

01:06:50.000 We had our body fat done at the police department.

01:06:53.000 And the highest ever I got was 3%.

01:06:56.000 And that was with calipers?

01:06:57.000 Yeah, it was calipers.

01:06:59.000 Did you ever do a dunk?

01:06:59.000 The one I had, the.33 was dipped underwater.

01:07:05.000 Wow.

01:07:06.000 It was negative numbers.

01:07:08.000 It was minus 2. That's so crazy.

01:07:11.000 Minus 2% body fat.

01:07:13.000 That doesn't even make sense.

01:07:15.000 Your arms are so big, it looks like you can barely pick your arm up to look at your wrist.

01:07:20.000 They're 23 right there.

01:07:22.000 Almost 24. I just can't imagine.

01:07:26.000 See, they got shorts right there. 1.00

01:07:27.000 Yeah, there you go.

01:07:28.000 Those are the company-issued shorts, though.

01:07:30.000 And they fit you?

01:07:32.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:07:32.000 Everything was tailor-made.

01:07:34.000 The city has a tailor.

01:07:36.000 So I went to the city's tailor for all my clothes and all my vests and everything.

01:07:42.000 That's hilarious.

01:07:43.000 Yeah.

01:07:43.000 Did you keep any of that stuff?

01:07:44.000 Yeah, I still got it.

01:07:46.000 That should be in like a bodybuilder slash policeman's hall of fame somewhere.

01:07:52.000 You know what?

01:07:53.000 They actually took my badge and put it on display at the station.

01:07:57.000 Oh, yeah?

01:07:58.000 Oh, that's cool.

01:07:59.000 Yeah, look at the size of you.

01:08:01.000 Does it freak you out when you see yourself that big?

01:08:04.000 You're like, wow!

01:08:05.000 No, you don't really see it after you've had it for so long.

01:08:11.000 But not looking at it now, I'm kind of missing it.

01:08:15.000 Do you?

01:08:15.000 Oh yeah.

01:08:16.000 Really?

01:08:16.000 Oh yeah.

01:08:19.000 Too bad you can't stay like that forever.

01:08:23.000 Well, I'd imagine a lot of your identity gets tied into that.

01:08:28.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:08:30.000 You hate getting old, but it happens to everybody.

01:08:33.000 Father time is undefeated.

01:08:35.000 It's old for sure, but it's also for you.

01:08:37.000 It's just the amount of destruction, all that hard training is done to your body.

01:08:42.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:08:43.000 All the fun I had in the gym.

01:08:45.000 I had a lot of fun lifting all that heavy weight.

01:08:48.000 People ask me if I had any regrets.

01:08:50.000 Yeah, I have some regrets.

01:08:52.000 I didn't go heavy enough.

01:08:55.000 Really?

01:08:56.000 There was one time I was squatting at 800, you know.

01:08:59.000 I thought it was going to be heavy, you know, because I deadlifted that already.

01:09:04.000 But I was squatting at this time and I didn't take into effect the gravity of the situation.

01:09:11.000 You know, when you're pulling from the floor, you know, gravity.

01:09:14.000 When you got it way up here on your shoulder, gravity's way down there, so that's pulling.

01:09:19.000 So when I went down for the first rep, I'm like, is this 800?

01:09:23.000 And I came back up, let me do another one.

01:09:26.000 It's still easy, but I had in my mind two, because I had already done two on the deadlift.

01:09:33.000 And I put it up, and I'm like, oh man, I could have did at least three or four more.

01:09:37.000 That bothers you to this day?

01:09:39.000 That bothers me to this day.

01:09:41.000 To this day.

01:09:42.000 But I went to the leg press and did 2,300 pounds on the leg press for eight reps.

01:09:51.000 How much?

01:09:52.000 2,300.

01:09:54.000 2,300 pounds.

01:09:57.000 For eight reps?

01:09:58.000 Eight reps, yeah.

01:10:00.000 That's on YouTube also.

01:10:02.000 That doesn't even make sense.

01:10:03.000 Yeah.

01:10:04.000 That's a car.

01:10:05.000 You had to add it up with a calculator.

01:10:08.000 Yeah, I had to bring out a calculator to add it up.

01:10:12.000 Lift so much weight.

01:10:12.000 Why would you lift so much weight?

01:10:14.000 Because I could.

01:10:18.000 No other reason.

01:10:19.000 Look at this. 0.99

01:10:21.000 This is so ridiculous. 0.99

01:10:23.000 How many times have you done this before? 0.99

01:10:25.000 I did that one time. 0.99

01:10:26.000 What the fuck is that? 0.99

01:10:29.000 That's so crazy, man. 1.00

01:10:31.000 That's 2,300 pounds.

01:10:32.000 That is so crazy.

01:10:34.000 I saw a video of a girl trying to use one of those things and her knee bent backwards and snapped. 0.97

01:10:38.000 And see, I came all the way back.

01:10:40.000 Well, some people that put that on there, they didn't come that far back, you know.

01:10:45.000 So this is right after the 800 pound squat.

01:10:48.000 You gotta remember that.

01:10:49.000 So I'm a little tired.

01:10:53.000 I'm a little tired.

01:10:55.000 Not real tired.

01:10:59.000 That is insane.

01:11:01.000 Yeah.

01:11:01.000 Back then it was.

01:11:04.000 I couldn't...

01:11:05.000 I can't do...

01:11:07.000 How many reps are you doing?

01:11:08.000 Eight.

01:11:09.000 I think I did eight.

01:11:11.000 That's very hard to believe.

01:11:13.000 Yeah.

01:11:14.000 It's very hard to believe you've been looking at it.

01:11:15.000 Look at all those 45s. 1.00

01:11:17.000 Yeah.

01:11:17.000 That's like 50-something plates.

01:11:20.000 50 of them.

01:11:21.000 That is bonkers, man.

01:11:23.000 Yeah.

01:11:23.000 That's bonkers.

01:11:24.000 I bought that machine specifically to do that.

01:11:28.000 Because a regular machine, you couldn't do that.

01:11:30.000 Because the first time I put it on there, that bar bent.

01:11:33.000 So he had to re-enforce the bar.

01:11:35.000 Ugh.

01:11:37.000 For, you know, so I could do it.

01:11:39.000 How are your knees right now?

01:11:40.000 My knees are perfect.

01:11:42.000 I wrapped up all the time.

01:11:43.000 Wow.

01:11:44.000 Yeah, wrapped all the time when I went heavy.

01:11:47.000 That's crazy that the knees are okay.

01:11:48.000 No problem whatsoever.

01:11:50.000 And everything else is all banged up.

01:11:51.000 Yeah, just the back and neck.

01:11:56.000 Yep.

01:11:57.000 I miss those days. 0.99

01:11:59.000 Goddamn. 0.99

01:12:01.000 Now, what kind of steroids were dudes doing back then? 0.99

01:12:06.000 I mean, basic.

01:12:08.000 You know, you got, you know, your tests, D-ball.

01:12:14.000 It's just basic stuff, you know.

01:12:16.000 And back then, you know, because the DA had come in and, you know, was trying to find out what we were all doing, they made us do it legally.

01:12:28.000 So, you know, you had to go to the doctor and get all these prescriptions and And you would get prescriptions for steroids?

01:12:35.000 Yeah.

01:12:35.000 What kind of steroids would they give you a prescription for?

01:12:37.000 Like, any kind of test.

01:12:40.000 You need it.

01:12:41.000 They would get a growth hormone.

01:12:43.000 They'd get a prescription because once the DEA came in, they was like, what are y'all doing?

01:12:50.000 What are y'all taking?

01:12:52.000 But when you think, like, the DEA, shouldn't you be out there catching people selling meth?

01:12:59.000 Why are you going after bodybuilders who are also cops? 0.92

01:13:02.000 That seems ridiculous. 0.95

01:13:03.000 Because they had kids out there that were taking it and committing suicide. 0.95

01:13:08.000 See, I didn't know what that was when I was a kid.

01:13:14.000 They were committing suicide because they were getting depressed from the steroids or coming off of it?

01:13:18.000 Coming off of it.

01:13:18.000 Yeah.

01:13:19.000 So they're trying to figure out, you know, what are y'all doing?

01:13:26.000 We got to get y'all off this stuff.

01:13:30.000 And so that's when you got a doctor that was willing to prescribe everything.

01:13:34.000 So was this while you were doing Mr. Olympian?

01:13:36.000 Yeah.

01:13:37.000 So all that stuff was above board.

01:13:39.000 It was all legal.

01:13:40.000 Yeah.

01:13:40.000 Everything was legal back then.

01:13:42.000 Is that the case now?

01:13:45.000 You know what?

01:13:46.000 That was just when the heat was on.

01:13:49.000 I don't think they got the heat on the guys like that now.

01:13:53.000 So the DEA would come to you and you would just say, hey, here's my prescriptions.

01:13:57.000 Yeah.

01:13:57.000 And they would go, all right.

01:13:59.000 Yeah.

01:13:59.000 Mm-hmm.

01:14:01.000 One time, if you didn't have a prescription, they took your stuff.

01:14:04.000 Really?

01:14:05.000 Yeah.

01:14:05.000 So they'd find whatever you had and take it from you.

01:14:08.000 Yeah.

01:14:09.000 Hmm.

01:14:09.000 Yep.

01:14:10.000 How did they know where it was?

01:14:12.000 You told them.

01:14:12.000 Oh, okay.

01:14:16.000 Because otherwise they put you in jail.

01:14:18.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:14:19.000 Search your house, you know, get a search warrant.

01:14:21.000 But I got this and this and this.

01:14:23.000 Well, I'd imagine you would have to take something to be as big as you were when you were at your peak.

01:14:29.000 Oh yeah, yeah, for sure.

01:14:30.000 It's not really possible to be that big without it.

01:14:33.000 Without it, no, no.

01:14:35.000 You can't get that big...

01:14:37.000 Another thing you gotta have too is genetics.

01:14:40.000 Yes.

01:14:41.000 You know, look at the baseball players that have taken stuff and look at us.

01:14:46.000 Yeah.

01:14:47.000 They can't get that big.

01:14:49.000 They're not gifted for it.

01:14:51.000 Well, they didn't try either, right?

01:14:52.000 They weren't trying to get that big. 0.98

01:14:54.000 Guys like Kenseiko, he got pretty fucking big. 0.95

01:14:57.000 They couldn't get that big because they wanted to. 0.98

01:14:59.000 Really?

01:14:59.000 So it's a small percentage of the population that could get that big.

01:15:03.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:15:05.000 And probably like 1% that could get as big as I got.

01:15:09.000 And I was the only guy.

01:15:12.000 Nobody duplicated that since.

01:15:15.000 And be in that condition.

01:15:17.000 Right.

01:15:17.000 And be healthy.

01:15:18.000 Right.

01:15:19.000 I don't have any health problems besides the back.

01:15:21.000 The injuries.

01:15:22.000 The injuries, yeah.

01:15:23.000 My liver, my kidneys, and my heart, it's all good.

01:15:27.000 Did you, while you were doing things, did you get frequent blood tests?

01:15:33.000 Every three to four months.

01:15:36.000 And the doctor would go over everything and make sure everything was fine.

01:15:39.000 Everything's always good.

01:15:40.000 That seems to be the big misconception about steroids is that people think steroids kill you.

01:15:45.000 And people think you're taking like tons of stuff.

01:15:48.000 I wasn't taking...

01:15:50.000 Tons of stuff.

01:15:50.000 I probably wasn't taking no more than what those baseball players were taking.

01:15:54.000 Just working out more, lifting more, lifting harder.

01:15:57.000 Working out, lifting more, and gifted genetically for it.

01:16:02.000 Dorian Yates said basically the same thing.

01:16:04.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:16:04.000 It wasn't that he was taking a lot, not compared to a lot of guys.

01:16:08.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:16:09.000 People think I was taking...

01:16:13.000 If I had been taking massive amounts of stuff, I don't think I'd still be here.

01:16:17.000 I don't think I'd be as healthy as I am now.

01:16:21.000 Besides my back surgery, neck surgeries, I'm all good.

01:16:25.000 Like I said, my liver and my kidneys and heart and everything is still holding up real good.

01:16:31.000 Now, when you would get off for that three-month period, would you cycle off of everything?

01:16:36.000 Cold turkey.

01:16:37.000 Cold turkey?

01:16:38.000 Really?

01:16:38.000 Cold turkey.

01:16:39.000 I didn't take anything or nothing.

01:16:41.000 And what did you feel like over those three months?

01:16:43.000 Normal.

01:16:43.000 Really?

01:16:44.000 Normal.

01:16:44.000 It didn't bother me a bit.

01:16:46.000 So you just, you got just great genetics, man.

01:16:50.000 Craziest ever.

01:16:51.000 Yeah, I mean, obviously, there's no way you could take all, you know.

01:16:55.000 Cold turkey, I stopped everything.

01:16:57.000 One day, I'd be taking, you know, a bunch of stuff.

01:17:00.000 Next day, nothing.

01:17:01.000 And your body would just feel normal?

01:17:03.000 Body felt normal.

01:17:04.000 Didn't bother me a bit.

01:17:05.000 That's so crazy.

01:17:06.000 Didn't get depressed or nothing, you know.

01:17:08.000 Yeah.

01:17:09.000 Felt normal.

01:17:11.000 That's just genetics.

01:17:12.000 Yeah, I still was strong.

01:17:14.000 Wow.

01:17:14.000 I could still, you know, squat, you know, I could squat, you know, 700-800 naturally.

01:17:20.000 Wow.

01:17:22.000 So you basically kept a lot of your gains.

01:17:25.000 Yep, I was still 300 pounds, you know.

01:17:30.000 Without taking all that stuff.

01:17:32.000 And so then, after three months, then you would slowly ramp back up?

01:17:35.000 Slowly ramp back up, yeah.

01:17:37.000 And all this under doctor supervision?

01:17:39.000 All this under doctor supervision.

01:17:41.000 And all the while I'm getting my blood work done.

01:17:45.000 Every three to four months.

01:17:47.000 So a lot of guys, after they're done competing, then they have to get on testosterone replacement therapy because the endocrine system is kind of messed up.

01:17:54.000 Exactly.

01:17:55.000 Did you have to do that as well?

01:17:56.000 Yeah.

01:17:57.000 Yeah.

01:17:58.000 It seems like that's just a part of the sport, right?

01:18:01.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:18:02.000 It is.

01:18:02.000 Yeah, it is.

01:18:04.000 It's interesting though because for the longest time these guys were doing these ads in magazines and they were attributing everything to some supplement that they were selling or some creatine or some this.

01:18:14.000 All that stuff does something.

01:18:16.000 It helps you out a little bit.

01:18:18.000 But it's not going to get you...

01:18:19.000 It's not going to get you 330 pounds with 3% body fat.

01:18:23.000 No.

01:18:24.000 No, it's definitely not going to do that.

01:18:25.000 Was that something that you were allowed to talk about while you were competing?

01:18:31.000 Yeah, I mean...

01:18:31.000 Did it come up?

01:18:33.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:18:34.000 I talked about it.

01:18:36.000 I didn't have no reason to hide it. 0.80

01:18:40.000 People were not stupid.

01:18:42.000 When you got that big. 0.72

01:18:44.000 But it seemed like there was an era where bodybuilding kind of tried to pretend that they weren't taking it.

01:18:50.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:18:51.000 Because of all those people committing suicide and kids taking all that stuff and doing it the wrong way, you know.

01:19:02.000 Not having it prescribed and all this kind of stuff.

01:19:04.000 Also, the more is better philosophy.

01:19:06.000 Black market getting bad stuff.

01:19:07.000 Right.

01:19:08.000 Yeah.

01:19:09.000 But there were some guys that would just say, well, the way to win is to take way more than everybody else.

01:19:16.000 Yeah.

01:19:16.000 And see what your body could tolerate.

01:19:17.000 Yeah.

01:19:18.000 The more you take, the better you're going to be.

01:19:21.000 I knew a guy like that.

01:19:22.000 Yeah.

01:19:22.000 And he wound up having a heart attack.

01:19:24.000 Exactly.

01:19:24.000 We used to call them garden hoses because his arms looked like garden hoses for veins.

01:19:29.000 Yeah.

01:19:29.000 Just these giant veins all over his arms.

01:19:31.000 Didn't even make sense.

01:19:32.000 But he was just on everything.

01:19:34.000 Yeah.

01:19:35.000 Yeah.

01:19:36.000 That he didn't make it to 30. Yeah.

01:19:38.000 He died before he was 30. Some people, yeah, they do it the wrong way.

01:19:42.000 I didn't start taking anything until I was 30. Really?

01:19:45.000 Yeah.

01:19:47.000 Remember, I was drug-free for a long time.

01:19:52.000 I did everything naturally for a long, long time because I was, like I said, gifted.

01:19:56.000 Right.

01:19:57.000 What inspired you?

01:19:58.000 What made you decide when you were 30 that you had to do something? 1.00

01:20:01.000 I got tired of getting my ass kicked. 0.99

01:20:07.000 In competitions? 1.00

01:20:08.000 Yeah.

01:20:09.000 The highs I would place was like third or something, you know.

01:20:13.000 After a while, you know, you're competitive. 1.00

01:20:16.000 You're shit. 1.00

01:20:19.000 The other guy's got a competitive advantage on you. 1.00

01:20:23.000 So let's make this thing equal.

01:20:25.000 Is this something somebody suggested to you?

01:20:28.000 Yeah.

01:20:28.000 So people in the gym, like, hey, Ronnie.

01:20:32.000 No, one of the competitors suggested that to me.

01:20:35.000 Oh.

01:20:36.000 Guy by the name of Flex Wheeler.

01:20:38.000 Oh, okay.

01:20:39.000 My best friend in the world. 0.99

01:20:40.000 That guy was fucking huge. 0.99

01:20:42.000 Huge. 1.00

01:20:43.000 Huge.

01:20:43.000 And he taught me everything I know.

01:20:45.000 Did he really?

01:20:46.000 Yeah.

01:20:47.000 Mm-hmm.

01:20:48.000 He also got me the best nutritionist ever.

01:20:53.000 That's how I won my first Olympia.

01:20:55.000 So is that how most guys find out about steroids from other guys who are competing?

01:21:00.000 If you're smart, that's the way you would do it.

01:21:03.000 Somebody that knows what they're doing and somebody that's successful at it. 0.98

01:21:08.000 Not some dumb trainer that think they know.

01:21:16.000 Flex had won major contests and it was a Real experienced bodybuilder at the time.

01:21:25.000 I'm still new to the sport.

01:21:27.000 I didn't get into it until I was 24. I think he started probably when he was like 16, 17, somewhere in there.

01:21:34.000 I never did that kind of stuff because we didn't have it where I was from.

01:21:38.000 How much of a night and day difference was it once you started taking stuff?

01:21:43.000 As far as the condition...

01:21:46.000 Night and day.

01:21:47.000 Night and day and your ability to work?

01:21:49.000 To put in work?

01:21:50.000 No, no.

01:21:51.000 The condition of your body?

01:21:53.000 Yeah, the only thing that changed was conditioning.

01:21:55.000 My strength didn't go up that much.

01:21:58.000 What do you mean by conditioning?

01:22:01.000 The way you looked?

01:22:03.000 Yeah, the way I looked.

01:22:04.000 So like leanness?

01:22:05.000 My definition and, you know, leanness and kind of, that's the only thing that really changed.

01:22:10.000 Well, your strength didn't go up that much.

01:22:11.000 My strength didn't go up that much.

01:22:12.000 I was still, I was deadlifting 750 pounds.

01:22:17.000 Wow.

01:22:18.000 You know.

01:22:21.000 I was still doing powerlifting shows when I was doing bodybuilding.

01:22:24.000 Were you really?

01:22:24.000 Yeah.

01:22:25.000 At the same time?

01:22:26.000 At the same time, yeah.

01:22:26.000 That's pretty unusual, isn't it?

01:22:28.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:22:29.000 But, you know, that was something I loved to do.

01:22:31.000 But those powerlifting guys are usually quite a bit fatter.

01:22:34.000 They don't mind having a lot of body fat.

01:22:37.000 The more body fat you have, the stronger you're going to be.

01:22:40.000 Why is that?

01:22:41.000 Because you got more cushion around the muscle.

01:22:46.000 More water around the muscle.

01:22:50.000 And all that stuff makes you stronger, gives you more energy.

01:22:54.000 Really?

01:22:54.000 Especially if you're naturally gifted with strength.

01:22:57.000 So did you ever feel like, was that ever pulling you back, like powerlifting?

01:23:02.000 Did you ever think about getting back into that again?

01:23:05.000 Or were you just completely committed to bodybuilding at that time?

01:23:08.000 Yeah, after a while, I kind of just got committed to bodybuilding.

01:23:11.000 Because I was working full-time in the police department, trying to do powerlifting, trying to do bodybuilding.

01:23:16.000 It was just too much.

01:23:17.000 And I had all these jobs, too.

01:23:19.000 I would do security at Denny's on Fridays and Saturday nights from 12 to 4. Oh, Jesus.

01:23:25.000 I would work in my apartment complex.

01:23:27.000 That might be the most dangerous spot in the world.

01:23:30.000 Denny's from 12 to 4 on the weekends?

01:23:32.000 My first fight was at Denny's.

01:23:34.000 Oh, was it really?

01:23:35.000 Yeah, my first one.

01:23:36.000 The one that I got used to force complex filed against me was at Denny's.

01:23:41.000 Yeah, Denny's can be rough.

01:23:44.000 Late night, drunks, showing up to eat.

01:23:47.000 Yep.

01:23:47.000 Oh, my God.

01:23:48.000 It was a drunk guy.

01:23:49.000 Of course.

01:23:51.000 Yeah, yeah, exactly.

01:23:52.000 You want to try to resist me? 0.99

01:23:54.000 Who the fuck is sober at Denny's at 3 o'clock in the morning? 1.00

01:23:56.000 Exactly. 0.99

01:23:58.000 Hardly nobody.

01:24:00.000 So when you were 30, you started taking steroids and you won the Olympia for the first time when you were 34. So that's like four years.

01:24:08.000 Yeah.

01:24:08.000 That's insane.

01:24:10.000 Yeah.

01:24:10.000 But you got to remember the base I had before that.

01:24:13.000 Right.

01:24:14.000 It's base and hard work and also genetics.

01:24:17.000 Yeah.

01:24:18.000 It's the perfect storm.

01:24:19.000 Yeah.

01:24:19.000 Do you think as a bodybuilder you really need like the perfect storm of things to be a champion?

01:24:24.000 You do.

01:24:24.000 Yeah, you do.

01:24:26.000 You're not going to be it if you don't have it.

01:24:29.000 It's just like trying to be president of the United States.

01:24:33.000 Only certain people are going to be president of the United States.

01:24:36.000 Everybody's not going to make it at that job.

01:24:40.000 Well, it's like when I look at some Mr. Olympias, it's so hard.

01:24:44.000 I'm looking at one, two, three, and four.

01:24:46.000 I'm like, I don't...

01:24:47.000 I'm not...

01:24:48.000 You have to have an eye for it.

01:24:50.000 You have to be trained, yeah.

01:24:51.000 Because I used to be the same way.

01:24:53.000 I thought everybody looked the same.

01:24:55.000 Yeah, that's how I looked at them.

01:24:56.000 I know exactly what you're talking about.

01:25:00.000 Everybody was just big to me.

01:25:02.000 Huge.

01:25:02.000 Yeah, huge.

01:25:03.000 Yeah, everybody looks preposterous.

01:25:04.000 And I thought I could never, ever...

01:25:07.000 Attain that.

01:25:09.000 But you did.

01:25:10.000 I did, yeah.

01:25:10.000 Not only did you set the gold standard.

01:25:13.000 Isn't that crazy looking back?

01:25:14.000 It's crazy looking back. 0.99

01:25:15.000 Do you ever wake up and just say like, what the fuck did I do? 0.98

01:25:19.000 Look what I did. 0.99

01:25:19.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:25:21.000 Because when you're doing it, you're always in that mindset of doing it.

01:25:26.000 Yes.

01:25:26.000 You're not enjoying it.

01:25:28.000 Right.

01:25:28.000 You just sit in the grind.

01:25:29.000 You can't sit around and enjoy it.

01:25:31.000 Right.

01:25:32.000 You got to stay focused and dedicated.

01:25:35.000 You gotta be always, you know, mindful.

01:25:38.000 Yeah.

01:25:39.000 You know, so there's no enjoying all that when you have success like that.

01:25:44.000 Well, I think that mindset, too, is the only way you become a champion like yourself.

01:25:49.000 Exactly.

01:25:50.000 That just keep going, keep grinding mindset, don't enjoy anything.

01:25:53.000 Yep, yep.

01:25:54.000 You enjoy it later.

01:25:56.000 Yeah.

01:25:56.000 After it's all over with.

01:25:58.000 I only enjoy it now.

01:26:00.000 There's such a small handful of Mr. Olympias.

01:26:03.000 I mean, that is the elite of the elite club to be in for bodybuilders.

01:26:07.000 I mean, you've got to have an amazing sense of satisfaction.

01:26:12.000 And a lot of guys that win it, win it multiple times.

01:26:15.000 Yeah, why is that?

01:26:16.000 Because it's only an elite number of guys can be Mr. Olympia.

01:26:23.000 And once you get there, you find the formula.

01:26:28.000 And it takes a while for somebody to come in and knock you off.

01:26:32.000 Because nobody found that formula like you have.

01:26:36.000 Eight in a row for me.

01:26:38.000 Eight in a row for Lee Haney.

01:26:40.000 Seven for Arnold.

01:26:42.000 Six for Yates.

01:26:44.000 Cutler, four.

01:26:48.000 How many guys did I just name?

01:26:50.000 And how many years is that?

01:26:52.000 That's a lot of years, right?

01:26:53.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:26:54.000 I mean, what an elite group of human beings.

01:26:56.000 Just me, Lee, and Arnold is 25 years almost.

01:27:04.000 Yeah.

01:27:05.000 That's crazy.

01:27:06.000 Yeah.

01:27:08.000 Three guys, 25 years.

01:27:09.000 When you say the right formula, it's the right amount of training, the right amount of rest, the right amount of food, the right nutrition, all the above.

01:27:18.000 Yeah.

01:27:19.000 And that's hard to do.

01:27:20.000 It's hard to dial it in.

01:27:21.000 It's hard to dial it in.

01:27:23.000 And did you dial it in with the help of a coach?

01:27:25.000 Nutritionist.

01:27:26.000 Just a nutritionist.

01:27:27.000 I couldn't have done it by myself.

01:27:29.000 But what about a coach?

01:27:30.000 That's the same thing.

01:27:31.000 Same thing.

01:27:32.000 Does a nutritionist maintain your schedule for your workouts as well?

01:27:36.000 Yeah.

01:27:36.000 Well, I did my own workout schedule.

01:27:39.000 So you did that all yourself?

01:27:41.000 All myself, yeah.

01:27:42.000 He did all my other stuff.

01:27:43.000 So he did all the food, made sure your body's well-fueled, but all the weightlifting, all that was set up by you?

01:27:51.000 Yeah, that was me.

01:27:52.000 How did you know when it's enough and when it's not enough and when it's too much?

01:27:56.000 Well, you can only do so much.

01:27:58.000 You can only do what you can do.

01:27:59.000 You know your limitations.

01:28:01.000 And you know what you gotta do.

01:28:04.000 So once you figure all this out, that's your formula.

01:28:08.000 And that's what you take from year to year.

01:28:11.000 And that formula is based on your body and how your body performs.

01:28:16.000 Everybody's body is different.

01:28:18.000 Did you ever have guys coming up to you, I mean you must have had guys coming up to you saying, what do I have to do to be like you?

01:28:24.000 All the time.

01:28:25.000 What did you tell them?

01:28:28.000 I'm a personal trainer.

01:28:31.000 That's what I had, you know?

01:28:33.000 I wasn't able to do all that on my own.

01:28:37.000 The guy who gave me the free membership to the gym, Brian Dobson, is the guy that taught me all this stuff.

01:28:43.000 He taught me how to pose.

01:28:45.000 He taught me how to train as a bodybuilder and not a powerlifter.

01:28:48.000 It's two different types of training.

01:28:52.000 He taught me everything I needed to know, and he was kind of like my personal trainer.

01:28:58.000 If he wouldn't have taught me all that stuff, I wouldn't have knew nothing.

01:29:02.000 And so I always tell people, if you want to know something, learn somebody that knows all that stuff.

01:29:10.000 And that's how you get the right formula.

01:29:13.000 Was this guy with you throughout your whole career?

01:29:15.000 No, no.

01:29:15.000 Just in the beginning, just to teach you the basics?

01:29:17.000 Basics, yeah.

01:29:18.000 And then from then on, it was all you?

01:29:20.000 Yeah, I had to get other trainers and nutritionists.

01:29:25.000 I had some trainers and nutritionists that weren't that good along the way, like a couple.

01:29:32.000 And I finally found the right guy from Flex Wheeler.

01:29:38.000 He turned me on to the guy who helped me win my first Olympia, Chad Nichols.

01:29:44.000 He's the guy that found the right formula for me.

01:29:47.000 And when you had this right formula, how many workouts a day were you doing?

01:29:53.000 One.

01:29:54.000 Just one?

01:29:55.000 Yeah.

01:29:55.000 Just one long workout?

01:29:57.000 An hour and a half.

01:29:58.000 Hour and a half every day, that's it?

01:30:00.000 Hour and 15 minutes.

01:30:01.000 Really?

01:30:03.000 Yeah.

01:30:03.000 So it's just about the intensity.

01:30:04.000 It's about the intensity.

01:30:06.000 And was there a time where you were working out more than that?

01:30:08.000 Never.

01:30:08.000 You felt like it was too much?

01:30:10.000 No.

01:30:10.000 You just always had it dialed in?

01:30:11.000 Always had it dialed in.

01:30:13.000 Wow.

01:30:13.000 You know, I had to do two hours of cardio a day.

01:30:16.000 Two hours of cardio?

01:30:17.000 An hour in the morning and an hour at night after I got off work.

01:30:20.000 Wow.

01:30:21.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:30:21.000 What kind of shit? 1.00

01:30:22.000 Like elliptical or something? 1.00

01:30:23.000 I did...

01:30:25.000 Stairmaster, I would do the elliptical, and the treadmill.

01:30:28.000 You would run on a treadmill?

01:30:30.000 Well, I ain't gonna call it running.

01:30:33.000 I'm just thinking you're so big.

01:30:38.000 What did you do, just kind of fast walking?

01:30:40.000 Yeah, like two, about three miles an hour.

01:30:43.000 Oh, okay, okay, okay.

01:30:44.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:30:44.000 Yeah, that makes more sense.

01:30:45.000 Yeah, yeah, for an hour.

01:30:47.000 An hour.

01:30:47.000 So this is just to burn off the fat?

01:30:49.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:30:50.000 Wow. 0.99

01:30:50.000 Goddamn, you must hate cardio now. 0.99

01:30:52.000 No, I still do it. 1.00

01:30:53.000 You still do it?

01:30:54.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:30:54.000 But I would imagine that that would be enough cardio for the rest of your fucking life, two hours a day, every day. 0.99

01:30:59.000 I'd be like, oh my God, if I never see another piece of cardio equipment again for the rest of my life. 0.99

01:31:03.000 Well, you get used to it after a while, you know.

01:31:05.000 What do you do now?

01:31:06.000 I can only do, I do the bike now.

01:31:08.000 I can walk on the treadmill, but I have to hold on.

01:31:11.000 Hold on the handles, yeah.

01:31:12.000 So I don't do it, I just do the bike.

01:31:14.000 Yeah.

01:31:15.000 Well, listen, man, after this show is over, I'm going to connect you to Dr. Neil Reardon, who is in Dallas, and I really hope that he can help you.

01:31:24.000 It'll be great if you do it.

01:31:27.000 I'm never giving up on it.

01:31:29.000 I know you're not giving up on anything, man.

01:31:31.000 Guys like you don't give up on anything.

01:31:33.000 I'm going to walk again unassisted.

01:31:36.000 I guarantee that.

01:31:37.000 I believe you.

01:31:38.000 If anybody can do it, you can do it.

01:31:39.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:31:41.000 If I can't do it, it can't be done.

01:31:43.000 I want to connect you to him and wish you the best of luck.

01:31:47.000 I appreciate you, brother.

01:31:48.000 Thank you for coming in here, man.

01:31:49.000 I appreciate you inviting me.

01:31:50.000 Oh, I got a new book out.

01:31:52.000 Oh, okay.

01:31:53.000 What is it?

01:31:53.000 It's called Yeah, Buddy.

01:31:55.000 Yeah, Buddy.

01:31:55.000 That's what I'm saying.

01:31:56.000 That is what I'm saying.

01:31:57.000 Get it on Amazon.

01:31:58.000 And my company is Ronnie Coleman Signature Series.

01:32:02.000 That's how I make my living now.

01:32:04.000 I own my own supplement company.

01:32:06.000 Ronnie Coleman.net is that.

01:32:09.000 And my book is called Yeah, Buddy.

01:32:11.000 One of my favorite sayings.

01:32:13.000 Yeah, but in my incredible story, you can get it on Amazon.

01:32:16.000 All right, folks.

01:32:16.000 Go get that book.

01:32:18.000 Go to RonnieCorman.com.net.

01:32:20.000 RonnieCorman.net.

01:32:21.000 Get some of those supplements.

01:32:22.000 We got 25, 30 different products.

01:32:25.000 Beautiful.

01:32:25.000 I hope we sell a bunch of them.

01:32:26.000 Oh, we have been selling a bunch.

01:32:29.000 Sell some more.

01:32:30.000 Thank you, brother.

01:32:30.000 Appreciate you.

01:32:31.000 Thank you for having me on.

01:32:31.000 Ronnie Coleman, ladies and gentlemen.

01:32:32.000 Yeah, buddy.

01:32:34.000 That was great.

The Joe Rogan Experience - June 10, 2020

Joe Rogan Experience #1489 - Ronnie Coleman

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