The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1501 - James Lindsay

00:00:00.000 You can ride an elephant in Thailand.

00:00:03.000 I rode an elephant in Thailand.

00:00:04.000 Nice.

00:00:05.000 There were actually healthy, happy elephants that were well taken care of because it's an elephant rescue.

00:00:12.000 So they're free.

00:00:13.000 They're free elephants.

00:00:14.000 They wander around.

00:00:15.000 They literally came out of the mist in the jungle like a movie.

00:00:20.000 It was crazy.

00:00:22.000 And they're treated really, really well.

00:00:24.000 So, I didn't like the riding part. 0.98

00:00:27.000 I thought that was kind of fucked up. 1.00

00:00:28.000 But they don't give a fuck, man. 1.00

00:00:29.000 You are literally like a hat to them. 1.00

00:00:32.000 Yeah, they're huge.

00:00:33.000 Yeah.

00:00:33.000 Strong.

00:00:34.000 But they came over and...

00:00:36.000 The whole idea was you pay for this experience with the elephants and in that they rehabilitate these elephants and they've released many of them back to the wild.

00:00:46.000 That's good stuff.

00:00:47.000 Because they don't need to be trained to be able to just eat vegetables and vegetation.

00:00:52.000 They just do it.

00:00:53.000 So they came over and you were introduced to the elephant that you were going to take care of for the day and then you start feeding it sugarcane and they love you.

00:01:01.000 So you're feeding them and you touch them.

00:01:03.000 They're super gentle.

00:01:04.000 The most gentle creatures.

00:01:06.000 And then you actually clean them off.

00:01:09.000 You wash them off.

00:01:10.000 So there's like this grooming thing.

00:01:12.000 And then when you go to get on them, they know you're trying to get on them.

00:01:16.000 So they actually lift their leg up like this so that you can step on their leg.

00:01:21.000 And then you step on them and you climb on top of them.

00:01:23.000 It's difficult.

00:01:24.000 It's hard to ride them. 0.99

00:01:26.000 But they literally don't give a fuck if you're on them. 0.98

00:01:29.000 Because you're so light to them. 0.98

00:01:30.000 And then they make their way through the jungle.

00:01:32.000 But it was pretty cool.

00:01:33.000 That's nuts, man.

00:01:34.000 Yeah, it was pretty cool.

00:01:35.000 It was pretty cool.

00:01:36.000 It was um...

00:01:38.000 It's humbling, you know, but that's the only way I'd want to be around them other than in the wild.

00:01:45.000 Like, I get bummed out at zoos.

00:01:47.000 I do too.

00:01:47.000 I mean, that's my story, right?

00:01:49.000 So I've been yelled at for that.

00:01:50.000 That's like the story of 2020 is getting yelled at for everything.

00:01:53.000 But I wrote, when I was a kid, you could ride elephants at the zoo.

00:01:57.000 And so, I don't know.

00:01:58.000 People got mad at you for that?

00:01:59.000 I mean, I told the story one time and people like lost their minds on me because I guess it's not okay now.

00:02:03.000 It was like a cost of dollars.

00:02:04.000 They weren't rehabilitating elephants or doing anything good with it.

00:02:07.000 I was like seven, though, so I don't really remember it.

00:02:09.000 But it's like times have changed.

00:02:11.000 Yeah, but they're mad at you for something you did when you were little, which is funny.

00:02:15.000 That's one of the things that's going on now, is people are retroactively getting canceled for things.

00:02:19.000 Yeah, like they did when they were kids.

00:02:21.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:02:22.000 It's ridiculous. 0.98

00:02:23.000 I mean, it's like everything's a permanent stain on you. 0.97

00:02:26.000 There's no growth.

00:02:26.000 You can't become a better person.

00:02:28.000 What do you think that is?

00:02:29.000 Like, what is the...

00:02:33.000 Desire that people have to do that.

00:02:35.000 Like, where's that coming from?

00:02:36.000 Well, you know, there's two ways we could talk about it.

00:02:38.000 We could talk about the psychological side of it, which is like a moral purity thing that's going bonkers.

00:02:43.000 Or we could talk about it in terms of the ideas, the theory that's fueling this.

00:02:48.000 And that's all about...

00:02:50.000 It has this idea that comes from French philosophy, that words and ideas and thoughts and patterns have traces that don't ever really go away.

00:02:59.000 And so if something used to be associated with something bad and we still use the word or even if you pretend that it was the case and you still use the word, then it carries this negative trace.

00:03:09.000 So the moral panic and the psychology side of it is fueled by this kind of like stupid idea that words always have to mean kind of what they meant in the first place.

00:03:17.000 Are people aware of that though? 0.83

00:03:18.000 I mean is this just conveniently connected to it or conveniently similar?

00:03:23.000 Or do you think that people are actually aware of this concept?

00:03:25.000 I don't think most people do.

00:03:29.000 So we're generally talking about this woke thing that's happening, right?

00:03:33.000 And so you've got to think of woke kind of like a church, right?

00:03:37.000 I grew up Catholic, so it's like you've got cultural Catholics.

00:03:40.000 They kind of go to church, and maybe they go to confession sometimes, and they don't really do it, but they don't really do it.

00:03:47.000 And then you have the hardcores. 0.96

00:03:48.000 I had a friend in high school that took notes at church.

00:03:51.000 Oh, wow. 0.81

00:03:52.000 Serial killer.

00:03:53.000 Yeah, it's like, you do what?

00:03:55.000 You take notes?

00:03:56.000 And then you've got the pastor, and he obviously studies it, or the priests in a Catholic context, and they study it.

00:04:01.000 And then you've got the theologians that really study it.

00:04:03.000 And so the stuff I'm talking about is like theology level.

00:04:07.000 That's like the scholars.

00:04:08.000 And then your average person just wants to feel like a good person.

00:04:11.000 So you've got like the woke academics, like the seriously, the woke people that are teaching it to kids.

00:04:18.000 Yeah.

00:04:19.000 Yeah.

00:04:19.000 That really teach it as like critical theory, like critical race theory.

00:04:24.000 That's right.

00:04:24.000 Yeah.

00:04:25.000 So those are the ones that are probably aware of all the nonsense.

00:04:29.000 They're making the nonsense, actually.

00:04:31.000 I think they pick some of it up from culture, you know, from activist groups or whatever, but then they refine it and turn it into something, and it has this really weird feeling to it.

00:04:39.000 Like, you get the impression that it's like they're wrestling with their inner demons, and then, like, writing it down?

00:04:44.000 Yes.

00:04:44.000 Like, this book now, White Fragility, right?

00:04:47.000 Robin DiAngelo's book, White Fragility.

00:04:49.000 That's the one that Matt Taibbi destroyed.

00:04:51.000 Yeah.

00:04:52.000 Yeah, thank God for Matt Taibbi.

00:04:54.000 Yeah, it was so good.

00:04:54.000 Thank the baby Jesus and Odin.

00:04:56.000 That's right.

00:04:57.000 It's so good though because he's right.

00:04:59.000 He's actually right about it.

00:05:00.000 So if you read the book, there's all these weird vignettes that she tells, these stories.

00:05:05.000 She's like, oh, I went to this potluck for work and I'm walking around.

00:05:10.000 I walk up and then I see there's two parties and we're at the park and there's two groups of people.

00:05:13.000 One of them's all black and one of them's not. 0.99

00:05:15.000 And I had this moment of panic that I might have to be in the all black group.

00:05:20.000 And it's like, lady, what's going on? 0.97

00:05:22.000 And then it's like, all white people are racist, is like her conclusion from this. 0.96

00:05:26.000 And it's like, maybe it's you. 0.99

00:05:29.000 So she had this panic that she was going to have to party at the park with black people? 0.98

00:05:33.000 Yeah. 0.90

00:05:34.000 And she was worried that she was racist because of that, and therefore all white people are racist?

00:05:39.000 See, that's what I'm thinking is going on, right?

00:05:40.000 So I'm thinking, I've thought this for a number of years, is that a lot of this stuff where you get these woke activists doing their blogs or these scholars writing this stuff down, It's like Sigmund Freud.

00:06:12.000 That everybody wants to have sex with their mothers and like your psychology is all how you resolve that problem. 0.97

00:06:17.000 And it's like maybe you just wanted to have sex with your mother, Sigmund Freud, you know? 0.99

00:06:21.000 And then now it's everybody's a racist is kind of the vibe of the new thing. 0.99

00:06:26.000 And there's like this weird religious kind of thing happening around it.

00:06:30.000 That's really the thing that gets me, is how similar this is to not just religious ideology, like how rigid it is, but also indoctrination, like religious cults, how they indoctrinate people.

00:06:44.000 And one of my friends, Kurt Metzger, a really funny guy who was a Jehovah's Witness when he was younger.

00:06:51.000 And so he's really, really, really sensitive to this stuff.

00:06:54.000 He's like, I know where this is going.

00:06:56.000 This is the same thing that I got when I was in the Jehovah's Witness.

00:07:00.000 That's right. 1.00

00:07:00.000 Cult shit. 1.00

00:07:01.000 It's these rigid ideologies that cannot be challenged. 1.00

00:07:05.000 You can't in any way veer from the course.

00:07:08.000 That's right.

00:07:08.000 And they set you up, right?

00:07:10.000 So every single one of these things sets you up.

00:07:13.000 So, for example, one of my favorite examples is these kind of like setups, right?

00:07:20.000 Historically, in the book, I talk about...

00:07:23.000 Historically, the black feminists came along and they're like, oh, feminism is too white. 1.00

00:07:26.000 Feminism isn't paying attention to black feminist issues or black women's issues. 1.00

00:07:30.000 And so then these feminists were like, oh, we have to fix that. 1.00

00:07:33.000 And they start writing about black issues to the best of their ability.

00:07:36.000 And then three years later, the lady writes a paper saying, oh, you're just – Yeah.

00:07:48.000 Yeah.

00:08:15.000 What are you going to say?

00:08:15.000 … of participation in systemic racism is an inability to see it if you're white and it's invisible to you.

00:08:22.000 And so maybe you need to look harder.

00:08:24.000 It seems like you're getting a little defensive.

00:08:27.000 And then you start panicking.

00:08:36.000 I get an insane number of emails from India?

00:08:39.000 No, no, from Canada.

00:08:41.000 But an insane number of emails from people who are in different levels of stress with different things that are happening in their lives around this woke explosion that's happened in the last month or so.

00:08:52.000 So this lady's like, I had to go through a Brown fragility training at work. 1.00

00:08:56.000 What?

00:08:57.000 Yeah, brown fragility is a thing now too. 1.00

00:08:58.000 So it's not even black?

00:08:59.000 Now they're working their way down to brown people? 0.99

00:09:01.000 Yeah, brown people have fragility, white people have fragility. 1.00

00:09:03.000 Oh my god, those poor people. 0.93

00:09:04.000 So people who racially were sort of like Switzerland, like Indians... 0.93

00:09:10.000 Like, in India? 0.92

00:09:11.000 Like, no one ever thought they were racist.

00:09:13.000 Right.

00:09:14.000 You would never hear about racist Indians. 0.92

00:09:17.000 Right.

00:09:17.000 Maybe Russell Peters would joke around about it.

00:09:19.000 Right?

00:09:20.000 You know Russell, the comedian?

00:09:21.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:09:22.000 Now you hear about it.

00:09:23.000 And what they're doing is that they had...

00:09:25.000 What happened was they explained to the ladies... 0.98

00:09:27.000 Well, not the ladies.

00:09:27.000 It was like the whole group.

00:09:28.000 It was done in a room, you know, in front of a bunch of people.

00:09:31.000 And they explained... 0.76

00:09:32.000 Because brown people, in general, like it's some kind of block of brownness or whatever, brown people have anti-black racism too, and that upholds white supremacy. 0.98

00:09:42.000 Oh my god. 0.96

00:09:42.000 And then they start just doing this, and it's almost like cold reading, right? 0.96

00:09:46.000 Yeah.

00:09:46.000 You know, like that Edwards guy, whatever that guy's name was on that show.

00:09:49.000 Yes.

00:09:49.000 And so it's like they cold read and they wait for somebody to start looking like they're getting a sweat or something happening.

00:09:53.000 And then they say, now what we need to do, now that we've introduced this idea of your brown fragility is we need to – your anti-blackness is we need to interrogate the feelings that came up.

00:10:03.000 And so they go one by one through the room.

00:10:06.000 And made every single one of them confess their feelings.

00:10:08.000 Like, who's not going to participate?

00:10:09.000 And here's that double bind.

00:10:11.000 Because it gets to you, right?

00:10:12.000 And so what do you say?

00:10:14.000 You say, well, I don't really know what you're talking about.

00:10:16.000 Well, they're going to say you're ignoring it.

00:10:18.000 Exactly.

00:10:18.000 And then if you confess to it, then you're falling in.

00:10:22.000 So this is straight up cult indoctrination stuff.

00:10:24.000 It really is like those people in Game of Thrones.

00:10:26.000 You remember those people that almost took over the crown and kidnapped Cersei?

00:10:32.000 It is.

00:10:34.000 It's like that sort of pattern, for whatever reason, just seems to reoccur with humans.

00:10:41.000 You know, and I think it comes down to our natural religious impulses.

00:10:44.000 Yeah.

00:10:45.000 That I think, I mean, you know pretty well from my background, you know, I don't believe in God.

00:10:49.000 I'm an atheist.

00:10:50.000 How dare you?

00:10:51.000 Oh, well, you know, we get along.

00:10:52.000 And so it's like I still do think that we have certain impulses underneath that lead people to build religious structures around themselves and have religious, you know, thoughts and feelings and want to have spiritual development and all of this.

00:11:05.000 And so religions can kind of do one of two things.

00:11:08.000 I used to be kind of hard-ass about religion and like tough, angry atheist kind of picture.

00:11:13.000 But I thought about it more, which you're not allowed to think about things and change your mind now, but I did.

00:11:19.000 And what I realized is that some religions look up.

00:11:22.000 They're like looking at God and they're afraid of sin, but they're paying attention to God.

00:11:25.000 They're thinking about renewal.

00:11:26.000 They're thinking about redemption.

00:11:27.000 They're thinking about forgiveness.

00:11:29.000 And then some religions look down.

00:11:31.000 And all they do is look at the sin, and they focus on the sin, and that's where the witch hunts came from.

00:11:35.000 That was when the Calvinists got, like, you know, fire and brimstone, Jonathan Edwards screaming, you know, sinners in the hands of an angry god.

00:11:42.000 You're hanging on a spider's thread above the fires of hell, and God should knock you into it because everybody's full of sin. 0.94

00:11:49.000 Next thing you know, they're killing witches. 1.00

00:11:50.000 So it's like you start – if you look up, you know – Then religion can be great.

00:11:57.000 It can actually lead people, spiritual development, community, so on.

00:12:01.000 But if you're looking down, you're going to start obsessing about – if you're obsessing about sin, you're going to start obsessing about everybody else's sin too.

00:12:08.000 Yes.

00:12:08.000 Because you're going to want to like – there's this feeling with – again, reading Robin DiAngelo's White Fragility, there's this feeling like – That she doesn't want to feel alone.

00:12:21.000 Like she has these struggles and she doesn't want to be alone.

00:12:24.000 So she's a white lady? 1.00

00:12:25.000 Oh yeah.

00:12:25.000 Robin DiAngelo is a white lady who goes in and for like $12,000 a pop does these corporate seminars.

00:12:32.000 What?

00:12:33.000 Yeah, $12,000 for two hours and teaches – she goes in and tells white people that they're racists and then like interrogates their feelings when they get defensive about it. 1.00

00:12:42.000 Oh my goodness.

00:12:43.000 It's like the biggest corporate training hustle ever.

00:12:46.000 And her idea of white fragility, you can't disagree with it. 1.00

00:12:49.000 There's no way to disagree. 0.95

00:12:50.000 I've absolutely like rammed it on some people on Twitter who are these Wokies that come and try to trash me. 1.00

00:12:55.000 And I just say, you know, that looks a little bit like white fragility. 0.99

00:12:58.000 And I give some reason that's kind of out of the literature.

00:13:01.000 And then they're like, I can't have white fragility. 0.98

00:13:03.000 You know, I'm whatever.

00:13:04.000 And it's like, Oh, that's definitely—you're getting defensive.

00:13:07.000 Defensive is one of the symptoms of white fragility.

00:13:09.000 You just want to deny your complicity in the system of racism that you benefit from, and it's just like you can't get away from it because— Right, that kind of language, like what you just said, is like—that's like a checkmate.

00:13:21.000 It's like the kind of stuff like— So the other day, right, Stephen King got dragged into this with the whole trans thing. 0.97

00:13:29.000 Yeah.

00:13:29.000 How did he get dragged into that?

00:13:31.000 What happened?

00:13:31.000 So he's longtime been a supporter of JK Rowling.

00:13:35.000 JK Rowling has decided that she's had enough of this, you know, trans rights thing going after the women's issues. 0.96

00:13:44.000 And so at first, Stephen King stood up for her and she put out a tweet saying, you know, you're such a good friend, blah, blah, blah.

00:13:51.000 And then somebody came after him.

00:13:53.000 And he's like, trans women are women.

00:13:54.000 And it's like, you know, he just caved.

00:13:56.000 Like, just immediately caved.

00:13:58.000 And it's like, all woke and no play makes Steve a dull boy, you know?

00:14:01.000 So he caves.

00:14:02.000 And then...

00:14:05.000 You get this sense that it's like something out of one of the novels he would have wrote, right?

00:14:10.000 Like all of a sudden it's like needful things.

00:14:12.000 It's like the whole town's going crazy because of demon possession and you have to get the stuff.

00:14:16.000 Trans women are trans women. 0.96

00:14:18.000 That's what they are.

00:14:18.000 I don't see that as being difficult.

00:14:20.000 As a matter of fact— I don't think that's difficult and I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

00:14:23.000 That's what I say.

00:14:24.000 I feel like they're equal to all of us and we're fine.

00:14:26.000 Yeah.

00:14:27.000 Like, what's the problem?

00:14:28.000 I got dragged into that, if you know, because of a mixed martial arts fighter.

00:14:32.000 Oh, yeah.

00:14:33.000 There was a woman... 0.99

00:14:34.000 Fallon Fox.

00:14:34.000 Mm-hmm.

00:14:35.000 Mm-hmm.

00:14:35.000 And I was like, this is my hill.

00:14:38.000 I will die on this hill.

00:14:39.000 Oh, yeah. 0.99

00:14:39.000 I mean, that was brutal. 0.99

00:14:40.000 You're crazy. 1.00

00:14:40.000 Brutal. 1.00

00:14:41.000 Yeah.

00:14:41.000 Watching the fights were brutal.

00:14:42.000 And not skill-wise, either.

00:14:44.000 It was just raw strength.

00:14:46.000 It was a beatdown.

00:14:47.000 If you had someone who has taken steroids for 30 years and then they got off steroids for two, you would absolutely think that person had a massive advantage for being on steroids all those years.

00:14:56.000 That's right.

00:14:57.000 If they were a woman. 0.99

00:14:58.000 That's right.

00:14:58.000 Particularly a man, yes, as well, but particularly if you're a woman and you're on steroids for 30 years and you get off them.

00:15:03.000 That's what being a man is.

00:15:05.000 It's not just being on steroids for 30 years and then transitioning to no steroids.

00:15:10.000 It's also having the physical structure of a man.

00:15:12.000 The difference is in the hips, the shoulders, the size of the hands.

00:15:16.000 There's a lot going on there.

00:15:18.000 There's a lot going on there.

00:15:19.000 And this is an area of my own...

00:15:21.000 I have very few areas of expertise. 0.97

00:15:24.000 But beating the fuck out of people is one of my areas of expertise. 0.97

00:15:28.000 I'm a professional commentator. 0.98

00:15:30.000 That's right.

00:15:30.000 So when I see that, I mean, I used to teach martial arts for a living.

00:15:34.000 I understand it.

00:15:35.000 I understand fighting more than probably understand most things.

00:15:39.000 You're crazy if you think there's not a difference between female and male bodies.

00:15:43.000 I mean the data are unequivocal about that.

00:15:47.000 Yeah, but it was one of those things where I was like, okay, this is one of the rare places where I really, if I go down on this one, like this is not, I can't see trans women just dominating in women's MMA. It's crazy. 0.98

00:16:00.000 No, I hear you.

00:16:01.000 I do not mind That they choose to fight trans women if they know in advance. 0.81

00:16:07.000 The Fallon Fox issue was she had fought twice as a woman without letting anyone know that she used to be a man for 30 years. 0.99

00:16:15.000 And I was like, you're crazy. 0.97

00:16:16.000 You can't just do that. 0.98

00:16:39.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:16:42.000 But it doesn't mean that she's a woman.

00:16:44.000 Just because Amanda Nunes... 1.00

00:16:47.000 Amanda Nunes would probably fuck me up. 1.00

00:16:48.000 It doesn't mean that I'm a woman. 0.99

00:16:51.000 If this found Fox guy gets...

00:16:54.000 Or woman, rather, gets beat up by Amanda Nunes... 1.00

00:16:56.000 I really didn't mean to misgender her there.

00:16:58.000 But if she gets beat up by Amanda Nunes, it doesn't... 1.00

00:17:02.000 Invalidate her as a trans woman. 1.00

00:17:04.000 It doesn't just...

00:17:04.000 It says you're not biologically a woman.

00:17:06.000 Right.

00:17:07.000 And this is what sports are about.

00:17:08.000 It's about...

00:17:09.000 I had a conversation with a guy on this podcast about that.

00:17:12.000 And he was like, I don't think that there's that big a difference in biological sex.

00:17:17.000 I said, okay, so you're cool with men competing in women's sports?

00:17:21.000 Right.

00:17:21.000 As men?

00:17:22.000 Yeah, what do you say?

00:17:23.000 He didn't know where to go.

00:17:24.000 I mean, that's the thing, right?

00:17:25.000 So, like, if we look at psychological profiles, for example, sometimes there are...

00:17:30.000 The data are always hard to parse with things like this, but there are very slight differences in the two – the male distribution and the female distribution of all the people.

00:17:38.000 What does it look like?

00:17:39.000 They overlap really close, and there's little variations.

00:17:42.000 When you look at – Upper body strength and you look at grip strength, they almost don't overlap.

00:17:48.000 Like the very top strongest women just barely cross over the weakest men in terms of grip strength and raw upper body strength. 0.98

00:17:57.000 That's why women – it's such a big deal when a woman gets to where she can do like 10 pull-ups or something like this. 1.00

00:18:02.000 Like everybody should throw a party for that.

00:18:04.000 It's nothing wrong with them.

00:18:05.000 It's nothing to do with their effort or ability or anything.

00:18:08.000 It's – Literally, it's a harder climb to get there.

00:18:12.000 Except those CrossFit ladies. 1.00

00:18:14.000 Jesus Christ, I was watching this documentary on these CrossFit ladies. 1.00

00:18:16.000 This one lady had, her abs were like if someone took turtle shells and just shoved them under her skin. 1.00

00:18:24.000 They were so thick.

00:18:26.000 Everything about her was so thick.

00:18:28.000 I mean, you gotta think, what is CrossFit, right?

00:18:31.000 CrossFit was like competitive exercise.

00:18:33.000 I mean, that's like the whole point of it is like, how do we turn exercise itself into a sport?

00:18:37.000 Some of those gals are pretty yoked. 1.00

00:18:38.000 They are.

00:18:39.000 They're super strong.

00:18:40.000 I'm friends with actually some rather top athletes, you know, men and women both, that have been pretty significant in CrossFit.

00:18:48.000 And in other things.

00:18:50.000 And you can get really strong.

00:18:52.000 You can get really strong.

00:18:53.000 But again...

00:18:54.000 You can't get as strong as a man.

00:18:55.000 That's why there's men and women's divisions even in CrossFit. 1.00

00:18:58.000 Even those beastly CrossFit women who are monsters, they can't compete with the male CrossFit athletes. 1.00

00:19:03.000 Exactly.

00:19:04.000 And that's the thing is you're always, when you're looking at competitive people, you're always in that tail end of good at this.

00:19:12.000 The people who are already really developed, really good at it.

00:19:14.000 And as far as trans women are trans women...

00:19:18.000 I feel like we should be using language in a way that increases clarity rather than decreases clarity.

00:19:23.000 So, like you said, I mean, it's exactly like you said.

00:19:26.000 There's literally nothing wrong in the world with being a trans woman.

00:19:28.000 Nothing.

00:19:29.000 Nothing.

00:19:29.000 If you want to be that trans woman, I'm happy for you.

00:19:31.000 I'll respect your pronouns, the whole thing.

00:19:33.000 You know, I'm with you.

00:19:34.000 As long as you don't make them up.

00:19:35.000 Well, there's a degree.

00:19:37.000 I mean, there is a thing where you're forcing somebody to try to do something unnatural.

00:19:41.000 I'll say she.

00:19:42.000 I'll say her.

00:19:43.000 I'll say anything female. 0.98

00:19:44.000 But you can't make up new ones.

00:19:45.000 Well, the world's confusing enough as it is.

00:19:47.000 And so we should be trying to strive for more clarity, not less.

00:19:51.000 So a trans woman is a trans woman.

00:19:53.000 And that allows for us to acknowledge what's actually going on in all regards.

00:19:59.000 Yeah.

00:20:00.000 As opposed to saying trans women are women.

00:20:02.000 Woman is a broader category. 1.00

00:20:04.000 And it therefore confuses the situation.

00:20:07.000 And I think that there's almost like a lot of manufactured drama, not just in that issue but in all of this where these definitions are getting blurred out.

00:20:17.000 So I mean that's what I do all the time now.

00:20:20.000 The last year is like all I've been doing is researching how they misuse words and writing – not trans people specifically but this whole woke ideology or social justice scholarship – And I've been writing an encyclopedia on my website about that.

00:20:35.000 And it's just like I've been writing my own encyclopedia.

00:20:38.000 And it's a monumental task.

00:20:41.000 But it actually is really helping.

00:20:42.000 People are emailing me every day and saying, you know, I can't make sense of this until I read your stuff.

00:20:46.000 Oh, wow.

00:20:47.000 And so it's like I have – I called it Translations from the Wokish, like going off of Tolkien.

00:20:57.000 Elvish.

00:20:57.000 Elvish, yeah.

00:20:58.000 And so I called it Translations from the Wokish.

00:21:01.000 It's on my website, New Discourses.

00:21:05.000 It's got like a hundred and something done now, a hundred and something terms.

00:21:08.000 So it's like, you know, they say the word folks.

00:21:11.000 Why do they say folks?

00:21:12.000 Why do they say folks?

00:21:13.000 I say folks all the time.

00:21:15.000 Well, I do too.

00:21:15.000 I'm from the South particularly that I have to, right?

00:21:17.000 I can't get away from it.

00:21:18.000 I just like the way it sounds.

00:21:19.000 Well, it's good. 1.00

00:21:19.000 These folks are crazy. 1.00

00:21:21.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:21:22.000 But they say white folks, black folks, queer folks, lesbian folks.

00:21:27.000 And it's like there's this identity folks, right?

00:21:29.000 And so the purpose of the encyclopedia was to dig into this terminology and make it clear.

00:21:35.000 Again, more clarity, not less.

00:21:36.000 So the people can understand where it's coming from.

00:21:38.000 So the reason they say folks is the same reason the Germans said folks in the 1930s.

00:21:43.000 As it turns out, it's an idea of a group culture, okay?

00:21:48.000 So it's the idea of moving a culture into, you know, it's identifying a group of people and saying that they are a folk, that they have a culture.

00:21:57.000 And of course, we're most familiar with that, you know, as they say in the original German because somebody picked it up and yelled it a lot.

00:22:04.000 There's also this issue that if a culture has been maligned, if they are marginalized, like trans people, then people who are not trans people are automatically thought of as in some way negative or bigoted. 0.99

00:22:20.000 If you're a straight white male, for instance, you're automatically a piece of shit. 0.99

00:22:26.000 That's right. 1.00

00:22:27.000 That's what this is doing.

00:22:29.000 The woke Olympics.

00:22:30.000 And I don't think, like we said earlier, like a lot of the guys taking notes at church, they know that.

00:22:34.000 But everybody below that doesn't really get it.

00:22:36.000 They think this is just about helping people and being fair.

00:22:39.000 That's what we would like.

00:22:40.000 Right.

00:22:41.000 And this actually comes from a place.

00:22:43.000 Like, that's kind of what this book is about, is that I've traced that for like, it goes back to actually, I don't want to mislead people and say, oh, this is Marxism.

00:22:53.000 You know, you have to whisper Marxism.

00:22:55.000 But it is Marx who took the idea and he cooked up this idea called conflict theory.

00:23:00.000 He actually took it from other German philosophers and made this – you can't even say what he changed.

00:23:05.000 He changed Hegel's idea of what's called – you can't even say this anymore – the master-slave dialectic because those master and slave have traces.

00:23:11.000 Even though that's what it was called, you can't talk about it.

00:23:14.000 So Marx took the idea of the master-slave dialectic, which was that people who have – Hegel wrote that people have power.

00:23:23.000 And then there are people who don't have power.

00:23:40.000 I think?

00:24:01.000 Oppressor class is always the enemy of the underclass. 0.99

00:24:06.000 And this has actually traced down through history.

00:24:09.000 It was economics then and then this philosophical school started in Germany at first, moved to Columbia University during the World War II. It's called the Frankfurt School of Critical Theory.

00:24:22.000 And they moved it into ideology and culture.

00:24:24.000 And so the dominant culture, whoever has the most status and power, the elites, which at the time was genuinely like white, straight men for the most part.

00:24:34.000 Those people basically brainwash the underclass into not realizing that they should rise up against.

00:24:40.000 So you have this whole dynamic of conflict where the oppressor class doesn't realize what it's like to be oppressed.

00:24:46.000 The oppressed class constantly can't get away from it.

00:24:58.000 The underclass always has to be at war to try to overturn the power above them, which is called hegemony, which comes from this guy, Antonio Gramsci, who is an Italian philosopher who came up with this idea of a long march through the institutions, 0.60

00:25:13.000 which I think we're now seeing for sure happening, like take over the institutions from within with this stuff.

00:25:18.000 So this stuff all has, like, I mean, we don't have to be dorks, but, I mean, I can do that on my own.

00:25:23.000 But this is a very long history.

00:25:25.000 This isn't, like, it didn't just pop up in 2014 when Michael Brown got shot.

00:25:30.000 Do you think when things happen, like the George Floyd murder, that it just, it opens up a door and this stuff comes through and then the vibration changes?

00:25:39.000 Like, it moves to a higher frequency because it's more common.

00:25:42.000 That's right, that's right.

00:25:44.000 And, I mean, there's a lot going on here, too, right? 0.97

00:25:49.000 The George Floyd case is actually fairly straightforward because, I mean, 8 minutes and 46 seconds is fucked up. 0.94

00:25:56.000 There's nothing else to say about it. 0.99

00:25:58.000 Dude, 20 seconds is fucked up. 0.99

00:26:00.000 I know. 0.99

00:26:01.000 Especially if you've got the guy down already.

00:26:02.000 Three guys, and how hard is it to put cuffs on the guy?

00:26:05.000 George Floyd was a big fella.

00:26:07.000 He was a big, strong fella, but there's no reason not just put a knee on the man's back.

00:26:12.000 Exactly.

00:26:12.000 And then how long do cuffs take?

00:26:14.000 Once the guy's cuffed, you just get him in the fucking car. 0.99

00:26:18.000 Yeah, let him do what he's going to do in the back of the car. 0.99

00:26:20.000 I guess they had some sort of animosity, personal animosity.

00:26:23.000 That's what I've heard, yeah.

00:26:24.000 Which, you know, I would wonder if that would move it to first-degree murder.

00:26:28.000 I have no idea.

00:26:29.000 But what we have now is this culture where video goes viral.

00:26:35.000 Right?

00:26:35.000 And this is a striking thing.

00:26:37.000 So it's really more prominent in – I mean it's pretty clear you can see the video with George Floyd.

00:26:42.000 But if you back up to Michael Brown, it's more complicated than Ferguson because the short video that went viral in the first place was a few – not very many seconds clip.

00:26:52.000 I think?

00:27:07.000 Is that true though?

00:27:08.000 Do we know that for a fact?

00:27:10.000 I'm not.

00:27:11.000 I'm scared of that narrative because I don't – I'd heard that narrative but I'm like I would hate to get behind that.

00:27:18.000 Sure, sure, sure.

00:27:18.000 And that's actually my point.

00:27:19.000 That's actually my point.

00:27:20.000 So I was sent a video.

00:27:22.000 I'm going to skip tracks to a different video because I want to make a point that we live in a – We live in a mediated world now, right?

00:27:29.000 A mediated epistemology is what I would call it.

00:27:32.000 The media itself, social media, so all of us participating are able to spin narratives around like a 30-second video.

00:27:41.000 So the other day, this guy sends me a video on Twitter and I watch it and it's some black guy.

00:27:45.000 With a microphone and, you know, like in a radio studio and he's like going, he's like, you know, these white people ain't gonna take it no more!

00:27:52.000 They ain't gonna take it no more! 0.89

00:27:53.000 He's like yelling, he's like, they're gonna rise up!

00:27:55.000 You know, and it's obvious what you're watching, you're like, man, this guy's like, these riots are out of control.

00:28:01.000 And so I wanted to share it, but it was sent to me on Twitter and I couldn't figure out how, so I looked it up on YouTube.

00:28:06.000 And so I had like a 40-second clip sent to me and I'm like, you know, about this riots.

00:28:10.000 And I wanted to show it to somebody.

00:28:11.000 And so I go and I find it on YouTube and I watch it and it's the same thing in 40 seconds and it ends.

00:28:17.000 But the video that I watched is several minutes.

00:28:19.000 And then the next thing the guy says is this president is divisive.

00:28:23.000 This president is the problem.

00:28:24.000 It's so divisive.

00:28:25.000 He's causing all this division. 0.99

00:28:26.000 And it's like, holy shit, he's actually talking about Trump. 0.99

00:28:29.000 And then I kept watching and he's like, President Obama has got to go at the end. 0.73

00:28:33.000 And so it depends on which part of that clip you see.

00:28:36.000 The story changes completely. 0.98

00:28:38.000 I watched the 40 seconds and I was like, holy shit, this is the riots. 0.99

00:28:42.000 And then, oh my God, it's about Trump. 0.99

00:28:44.000 And then boom, now it's this dude railing about Obama several years ago.

00:28:48.000 Oh, wow.

00:28:48.000 And the video was sent to me because it was going crazy with the implication that it was about the riots.

00:28:55.000 But it was about Obama.

00:28:56.000 That's crazy.

00:28:57.000 So this is like the deal, right?

00:29:00.000 What we're seeing isn't always the whole story.

00:29:04.000 Right.

00:29:04.000 And we live in this clip culture now, which is a real problem.

00:29:07.000 Right.

00:29:07.000 And we piece together the story we believe based on, you know, our prior assumptions about it.

00:29:12.000 Like the Covington case.

00:29:13.000 Exactly.

00:29:14.000 Where the kid was just standing there and the Native American guy came up to him with the drum.

00:29:18.000 That's right. 0.91

00:29:18.000 And he was smiling in the Native American's face and they got a photo of it and it really looks like this kid's a prick and that he's taunting these Native Americans who are just peacefully banging on their drums. 0.91

00:29:29.000 That's exactly right.

00:29:43.000 You said, you know, does it just jack everything up to a higher frequency?

00:29:46.000 And absolutely it does because everybody can take that clip and then just upload their story of what they want to have to be true into that clip.

00:29:55.000 And it becomes like, it's like, I mean, we're already talking about religion.

00:29:59.000 It's like a miracle.

00:29:59.000 Like, you know, back in 2000, 3000 years ago, you know, something weird happened.

00:30:04.000 And then, you know, people, one person tells another and another and another.

00:30:08.000 And it's like, And I swear, you know, an angel came down from the sky and touched him and he was healed and he could walk again.

00:30:13.000 You know, so it's like a miracle story but mediated through partially informative video.

00:30:20.000 It's almost like, you know, everybody's scared that deepfake is coming where they can basically put your face on whatever porn star or saying some horrible thing that you never said or whatever.

00:30:28.000 Yeah, that's definitely coming, right?

00:30:30.000 It is the precursor to that because you can cut that clip just right.

00:30:36.000 Yeah.

00:30:39.000 Yeah.

00:30:52.000 Right? 0.85

00:30:52.000 So that same clip I saw, I don't know that it would be a good example, but, you know, you could take it as the riots and, you know, that black guy's sick of the riots. 0.85

00:31:00.000 And so the right wing's all over it.

00:31:02.000 Like, look at this guy, you know.

00:31:04.000 And then, boom, this president's so divisive.

00:31:06.000 And now it's the left's story.

00:31:08.000 And you cut it right there.

00:31:09.000 And the next thing you know, it's President Obama, you know.

00:31:11.000 And all of a sudden, it switches sides again.

00:31:14.000 And it's also history.

00:31:16.000 And then even the thing I watched that was longer was four and a half minutes.

00:31:20.000 And then the whole thing is like an hour.

00:31:22.000 So what was really the guy's whole point?

00:31:27.000 And so we're getting away from being able to understand because, you know, our attention spans are so short.

00:31:32.000 You live in Twitter, it's like you have the attention span of like a goldfish, man.

00:31:36.000 You can't pay attention to anything.

00:31:37.000 We're marinating in dopamine all the time.

00:31:39.000 Brain doesn't work right.

00:31:40.000 So you don't have time to like parse anything together.

00:31:42.000 You see this thing, you're pissed off.

00:31:44.000 You're a retweet, you know, snarky comment.

00:31:45.000 Don't you think that also just the format of Twitter...

00:31:49.000 Itself is just...

00:31:50.000 I think it's detrimental to people's mental health.

00:31:53.000 Big time.

00:31:54.000 Communicating through these small little sentences and little paragraphs of 280 words.

00:32:01.000 That's right.

00:32:02.000 Characters, yeah.

00:32:03.000 So it's like 30 words.

00:32:04.000 And so this...

00:32:06.000 I actually called Twitter a deconstruction machine, which is straight out of this, again, the same critical...

00:32:12.000 Postmodern philosophy stuff that I kind of keep circling around.

00:32:16.000 Deconstruction is the idea that – it's the same thing as the mediated ideas, that we're going to take a thing apart, make it look absurd, or we're going to show it in a particular light and then pull it apart until you don't really trust its validity anymore.

00:32:31.000 And that's specifically its purpose is to make it so that you don't trust the validity of the thing anymore.

00:32:35.000 And so anything you put on Twitter, once you get an account of a certain size at least, anything – I have an account that's big enough now, so I experience this regularly.

00:32:45.000 It's a 100% chance that some jackass is going to say something that just messes with your head.

00:32:51.000 Or somebody's going to take it out of context, or they're going to tell you what they thought you mean, and now that's the thing you mean.

00:32:57.000 Or they're going to screenshot it, and it's going to go around.

00:33:00.000 It's like...

00:33:02.000 I mean, you're famous enough where it obviously happens to you all the time, I'm sure.

00:33:05.000 It's like they take something that you say on a podcast or you put on Twitter or your shows or whatever, and they clip it up.

00:33:11.000 And then there's like, you know who Joe Rogan is, but then there's like this new Joe Rogan that they created that's out in the universe, right?

00:33:16.000 So they take you apart.

00:33:18.000 They deconstruct you.

00:33:19.000 The real Joe Rogan and your real intentions and your real meaning.

00:33:22.000 And then they put it out into the world and there's this new Joe Rogan that does a horrible thing or this new Joe Rogan maybe that's a saint.

00:33:27.000 Well, I always tell people too, like, if you have an issue with some of the things that I say, guess what?

00:33:33.000 I have an issue with some of the things I say.

00:33:34.000 Me too.

00:33:35.000 And if you were here with me when I say things and you disagreed, I'd listen to your point.

00:33:40.000 I'm not an idealist or an ideologue when it comes to...

00:33:46.000 Ideas.

00:33:46.000 And that's the thing.

00:33:47.000 When it comes to concepts, I'm not married to anything that I say.

00:33:50.000 Right.

00:33:50.000 So we need to be able to talk about it, right?

00:33:52.000 Yeah.

00:33:52.000 So you say a thing and then I'm like...

00:33:54.000 But I think part of the problem is they can't talk about it.

00:33:57.000 No, they can't.

00:33:57.000 So they have to tweet about it.

00:33:58.000 Because they're not in the room and they don't have your attention.

00:34:02.000 Right.

00:34:02.000 So then they get angry.

00:34:03.000 And that's part of the problem with podcasts as well is like, right now, you and I are having a conversation.

00:34:08.000 Yep.

00:34:08.000 But millions of people are listening to this conversation.

00:34:10.000 Yeah.

00:34:10.000 And there's a lot of them that wish they could chime in.

00:34:12.000 Exactly.

00:34:13.000 And they don't get to.

00:34:14.000 So what they do is they get angry and they put some stuff on Twitter.

00:34:17.000 I understand the motivation.

00:34:19.000 I understand the thought process behind it.

00:34:22.000 I really do.

00:34:22.000 But I personally can't engage because it's just too unhealthy.

00:34:26.000 Right.

00:34:27.000 Exactly.

00:34:27.000 So, yeah, I think social media is – Twitter in particular.

00:34:31.000 Among social media.

00:34:32.000 I don't know.

00:34:32.000 I don't interact on Facebook anymore, so I don't really know.

00:34:35.000 I don't use Facebook at all.

00:34:35.000 Oh, that's a mess.

00:34:36.000 I just bailed out.

00:34:37.000 It just posts from my Instagram to Facebook, but I don't look at it at all.

00:34:41.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:34:41.000 It's just too weird.

00:34:42.000 It's weird.

00:34:43.000 Plus, Zuckerberg gives me creeps.

00:34:45.000 Yeah, I mean, big time.

00:34:46.000 I don't like the way he drinks water.

00:34:47.000 I haven't even seen it.

00:34:48.000 I don't want to know.

00:34:49.000 Like this.

00:34:50.000 All I know is that when Zuckerberg sits down and he opens his laptop, you see he's got his little camera covered up, and I'm like, what's up with this?

00:34:56.000 He knows something. 0.99

00:34:57.000 Yeah, he knows he's got a fucking strap on and a dress and all kinds of weird shit. 1.00

00:35:02.000 So, yeah, I don't do that, but Twitter chews your mind up, man. 1.00

00:35:07.000 It's made to be bad.

00:35:09.000 It's really a bad place, and I really feel bad because I feel like I've kind of uploaded myself into the matrix of Twitter.

00:35:15.000 You're on it every day, though.

00:35:17.000 I go to your pages to see what you're arguing with.

00:35:20.000 Sometimes it's funny.

00:35:21.000 Sometimes it's bad.

00:35:22.000 Do you get uncomfortable with it?

00:35:24.000 No.

00:35:25.000 I did in the past.

00:35:27.000 So you're getting better at being hard?

00:35:29.000 Yeah.

00:35:29.000 I mean, you have to.

00:35:30.000 You have to harden up.

00:35:31.000 You have to realize that it actually doesn't matter.

00:35:35.000 That, you know...

00:35:38.000 It's kind of like – I made the analogy actually a while back that it's like doing – I mean I've never done a stage show, so don't – I've given talks, but I haven't done like a stage show.

00:35:48.000 But you get a heckler in the audience, but really you have like 70,000 of them.

00:35:54.000 And when you're doing the show as a comedian, you either interact with the heckler a little bit or you try to flip it on them or whatever or you try to ignore it as long as it's like not too obtrusive.

00:36:07.000 And you kind of have to have that same mindset.

00:36:09.000 You have to think of Twitter as being on stage.

00:36:11.000 Right.

00:36:12.000 And that the audience, though, like when you do a real show, the audience isn't supposed to yell at you all the time.

00:36:18.000 Right.

00:36:18.000 But on Twitter, everything you say, they're going to yell at you.

00:36:20.000 So you have to just like tune it out.

00:36:22.000 I've actually found in the past – I've been trying to figure it out over the last couple of years.

00:36:27.000 I found that if I look at my feed, that I follow these people and I look at what they tweet – Whatever.

00:36:33.000 And if I look at my direct messages that people send me, whatever.

00:36:37.000 But if I look at people replying to me and whether I got likes or retweets, if I pay any attention to that, it drives me nuts.

00:36:42.000 So when I stop paying attention to that, like, I only look at it at a, like, you know, all right, I got half an hour.

00:36:48.000 I'm going to dick around with it and just have a good time or whatever.

00:36:51.000 Fine, because it's in a controlled dose. 0.97

00:36:53.000 But if you get hooked into that, man, you get pulled into this cycle and it's like...

00:36:57.000 It's bad.

00:36:58.000 Well, there's a lot of people that are doing it, too.

00:37:00.000 I know people that are mentally unwell that are on Twitter 12 hours a day, and they're just constantly arguing with people, and I can just imagine them nervous and sweating and freaking out, reading the at replies and seeing if it's going their way, or people are piling onto them,

00:37:16.000 and then they freak out.

00:37:17.000 You know, I think this is actually a big part of how the woke thing mainstreamed.

00:37:21.000 Was the internet at first?

00:37:22.000 You gotta think.

00:37:23.000 When the internet first came out, you know, the kids aren't old enough to even know this, but, you know, we know this.

00:37:29.000 When the internet first came out, who was on the internet all the time?

00:37:31.000 Who were the first two online people?

00:37:33.000 Shut-ins.

00:37:34.000 Yeah.

00:37:35.000 People who were socially awkward, who, if they went out with their friends, it didn't really work out great a lot of times.

00:37:41.000 They said awkward stuff.

00:37:43.000 It got shut down.

00:37:43.000 It wasn't fun for them.

00:37:45.000 So it gave them a social outlet where they could fit in.

00:37:50.000 And I think that this actually has contributed – like internet social media culture is so strongly built by people, A, who are that way now, and B, by people who are that way when these things were getting set up, that it's all kind of built around – You know,

00:38:06.000 maybe people with personality disorders, people who are just socially awkward, people who don't want to interact with human beings in the normal way.

00:38:12.000 But just the whole structure of it, though, even if you're normally, like, a personable human, when you're typing things out and just sending it out there, and, you know, you've got an egg for an avatar, and if someone reads it, you're completely anonymous, and it's just a bizarre way to interact with people.

00:38:29.000 It's so weird.

00:38:30.000 It's unnatural.

00:38:31.000 And, like, how quick you'll just get rid of people.

00:38:33.000 Mm-hmm.

00:38:34.000 Like, that guy said—that guy and I have been interacting for, like, two years, you know, here and there.

00:38:38.000 I don't really know him.

00:38:39.000 He's some dude.

00:38:40.000 And then he made one comment, and I'm like, gone.

00:38:42.000 You know?

00:38:43.000 That's it.

00:38:43.000 To cut out of my life.

00:38:45.000 Think of the—like, that's going to translate.

00:38:47.000 You know?

00:38:48.000 You get in that habit where somebody pisses you off, and you just cut them out of your life.

00:38:51.000 Because on Twitter, that's what you would do.

00:38:53.000 Yeah, you block them.

00:38:53.000 On Facebook, you, like, you unfriend somebody or whatever.

00:38:56.000 And, like— I actually have felt that impulse in real life.

00:38:59.000 Like, you know, I'm hanging out with somebody and he says some dickheaded comment and I'm just like, yeah, where's my block button?

00:39:04.000 How do I remove this person from my life like right now?

00:39:06.000 There's no room for nuance and there's no room for, like you said earlier, for growth, for someone to learn, live and learn and get better at it.

00:39:17.000 And that's what galls me about this woke stuff because they're like, this is about healing.

00:39:21.000 And it's like it's not.

00:39:23.000 It's like the least healing thing I've ever heard.

00:39:25.000 It's like make everybody walk on eggshells, think they're going to get canceled, get hot takes dropped on.

00:39:32.000 That's another thing with social media too, right?

00:39:34.000 It's hot takes.

00:39:35.000 What's going to go viral?

00:39:37.000 It's like that dude totally dunking on that other dude, right?

00:39:40.000 And it's not the nuanced analysis.

00:39:41.000 It's not the guy who knows what he's talking about or is thoughtful.

00:39:44.000 He's just getting tore up in his mentions and freaking out and sweating about it.

00:39:48.000 Yeah, it's fast food information.

00:39:50.000 But hot takes are critical theory.

00:39:53.000 Hot takes are critical theory.

00:39:54.000 As a comic, you'll get it.

00:39:55.000 Because, like, there are different kinds of comedy, right?

00:39:59.000 There's, like, narrative comedy and you're telling a story and it's a funny story and it works.

00:40:02.000 But then you have the kind of...

00:40:04.000 And you can do this good and bad, right?

00:40:06.000 There's a good way and a bad way.

00:40:07.000 But you can get on stage and you can be that guy who just kind of...

00:40:10.000 Like, you're trying to blow people's mind, but you're just kind of, like, criticizing something.

00:40:14.000 I don't want to put down Jerry Seinfeld, because I think he's brilliant.

00:40:17.000 He's one of my favorites of all time.

00:40:18.000 But, you know, what's the deal with, you know, something? 1.00

00:40:20.000 He just says something kind of stupid afterwards. 1.00

00:40:23.000 Or, you know, Gallagher was big with that, with, like, the stupid words. 1.00

00:40:28.000 You know, it's like, how? 1.00

00:40:30.000 Now?

00:40:30.000 Bo!

00:40:31.000 You know, English is stupid. 1.00

00:40:33.000 You know, that's actually critical theory. 1.00

00:40:35.000 You don't actually have to know what...

00:40:38.000 Made the thing work but you can just tell this kind of like dunking joke on it that kind of gets yucks or whatever.

00:40:44.000 And then in comedy, fine.

00:40:46.000 We know a good comic from a bad comic.

00:40:48.000 We laugh.

00:40:48.000 That's the point is to make something funny and everybody bombs.

00:40:51.000 But when you start doing that with like people's lives and social philosophy and calling them things like racist and sexist that can ruin their lives, it's a totally different ballgame.

00:41:02.000 Right?

00:41:03.000 So it's like looking for that place to just be critical becomes a problem.

00:41:08.000 Don't you think it's also just because it can be done?

00:41:10.000 Like if you gave people a keyboard and if you told them, look, every time you press that Q button, a rocket's going to fly out of the sky and slam into a part of the planet.

00:41:22.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:41:22.000 People would hit that button, man.

00:41:24.000 Oh, man.

00:41:24.000 There would be people like...

00:41:25.000 If they just knew, and they don't even have to be there when it hits, because you're essentially like, if you say something mean to someone online, and it really gets them, especially if you're anonymous, you're sending an emotional bomb their way.

00:41:39.000 Exactly.

00:41:40.000 And, I mean, I know a lot of 15-year-old guys, because I hung out with several of them, and at times I probably was one who would basically have, like, two little, like, xylophone hammers, just like...

00:41:50.000 Oh, my God.

00:41:52.000 I was horrible when I was 15. I don't know what I would do.

00:41:55.000 And that's one of the things that I try to tell people when they're interacting with folks on Twitter and getting heated.

00:42:00.000 I'm like, that could be a 15-year-old kid laughing his ass off that he got you to respond to him.

00:42:06.000 Yeah.

00:42:06.000 And the bigger you are, the funnier it is.

00:42:08.000 Yes.

00:42:09.000 Yeah.

00:42:09.000 And like, yeah.

00:42:11.000 It's just absolutely not a good place.

00:42:14.000 It's such not a good place.

00:42:16.000 But there's some good to it, right?

00:42:18.000 Of course.

00:42:18.000 First of all, if you follow a lot of people, you can get a lot of interesting information, fast-breaking news.

00:42:25.000 I swear, it knows the news before it happens.

00:42:28.000 Well, I got all my news about Chaz.

00:42:30.000 Is it Chaz or is it Chopped now?

00:42:32.000 Well, it's over now.

00:42:33.000 Is it really over?

00:42:34.000 I just saw that this morning.

00:42:35.000 Yeah, apparently the cops went in and it took an hour and it was over.

00:42:38.000 And they cleaned it up?

00:42:39.000 Well, they're cleaning it up.

00:42:40.000 I mean, it's a wreck.

00:42:41.000 But it was CHAZ and it became CHOP. So Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone is CHAZ. And then CHOP, I think they derived directly from the French Revolution.

00:42:51.000 Like, they're going to get guillotines?

00:42:52.000 Like, these badasses are going to get guillotines? 1.00

00:42:53.000 Well, they put a BLT outside of Jeff Bezos' house.

00:42:56.000 I saw that.

00:42:57.000 What did he do?

00:42:58.000 I don't know.

00:42:59.000 Other than make a lot of money?

00:43:00.000 Probably.

00:43:01.000 Is that it?

00:43:01.000 That's all it took?

00:43:02.000 Yeah, I mean...

00:43:03.000 He's not a bad guy, is he?

00:43:05.000 I don't know.

00:43:05.000 I mean, he's not known as a bad guy.

00:43:07.000 It's not like he's not doing terrible things, is he?

00:43:09.000 I don't think he is.

00:43:10.000 Maybe he's not paying people enough or something?

00:43:12.000 I mean, when the COVID hit, he gave everybody a $2 an hour raise across the board right away.

00:43:16.000 Did he?

00:43:17.000 Yeah.

00:43:17.000 Well, why do they have a guillotine outside his house?

00:43:20.000 Just because he represents capitalism, right?

00:43:21.000 Yeah, probably. 0.99

00:43:22.000 They don't like capitalism, which sucks. 0.97

00:43:26.000 Again, that's that critical thing. 0.94

00:43:28.000 Okay, so there's a difference between building a thing and tearing a thing down.

00:43:32.000 It's easy to tear.

00:43:33.000 I read a poem about this.

00:43:35.000 Maybe a lot of people did, I think, when we were in school.

00:43:37.000 I don't know.

00:43:38.000 Maybe even you read it.

00:43:39.000 I can't quote it.

00:43:40.000 There's this poem talking about the builder or something.

00:43:43.000 And it's like, or maybe it's the demo guy, but it's like this poem about how easy it is to just knock the bricks down and knock the building down.

00:43:49.000 And it's like, this took builders like six months to build and it took me a day to knock it down or whatever.

00:43:55.000 It's easy to tear things down.

00:43:56.000 And it's easy to do like this kind of hot take complaining thing to tear people down or tear ideas down. 0.88

00:44:03.000 But it's hard to understand a thing and it's hard to build a thing.

00:44:06.000 Right?

00:44:07.000 And so that's kind of How we ended up here in the long run.

00:44:11.000 Again, I go back to that Frankfurt School to kind of root this in deep philosophy and history.

00:44:16.000 They came up with this idea of critical theory that we've talked about now, and they had this other idea, traditional theory, and they said you're supposed to use them together.

00:44:23.000 Critical theory was how you complain that things aren't Marxist enough, more or less.

00:44:27.000 And then people bomb me for saying that, but it is actually generally true.

00:44:36.000 Traditional theory was understanding things.

00:44:38.000 It's philosophy.

00:44:38.000 It's science.

00:44:39.000 It's figuring out how to make airplanes work and figure out how to get the air traffic control so they don't crash into each other, the whole complicated mess.

00:44:46.000 And one of these things, you're supposed to use them together, but one of these things is a lot easier.

00:44:51.000 Right?

00:44:52.000 So what happens when you start kind of getting a lot of half-assed PhDs in the academic world who need something to do?

00:44:58.000 You think they're going to do the hard thing versus the easy thing?

00:45:01.000 Everybody who did—I mean, I majored in math.

00:45:03.000 I'm going to be my little elitist, you know, dorky thing here.

00:45:07.000 Everybody who majored in something hard watched people bounce off of their hard major into the easier majors so they could still just get a degree.

00:45:13.000 Yeah.

00:45:14.000 So you start – like they call this overproduction, cultural overproduction or cultural elite overproduction.

00:45:19.000 You start putting too many people into degree programs that they're not going to graduate with an engineering degree.

00:45:27.000 It's freaking hard.

00:45:28.000 And so what they end up doing is they get these degrees and things that are easy.

00:45:31.000 Well, complaining is easy.

00:45:32.000 Tearing down is easy.

00:45:33.000 Building up is hard.

00:45:34.000 So there's this bias that's happened over the last 100 years in academia toward this easier thing, criticism, and away from the harder thing, which is understanding and developing fundamental research and so on.

00:45:46.000 And it's basically taken over academia now.

00:45:50.000 And that's how we – I think that's actually a lot of how we got here is the easy thing is the easy thing and complaining is cheap.

00:45:57.000 Is there pushback against that idea?

00:46:00.000 Which part?

00:46:01.000 About whether or not these people initially started in difficult studies and then moved their way into like – These soft social...

00:46:10.000 It's sort of really...

00:46:11.000 I mean, well, that just happens.

00:46:13.000 I mean, my best friend in college was, you know, he was going to be a mechanical engineer and then calculus just took care of that.

00:46:19.000 He was not going to be a mechanical engineer anymore because he couldn't pass calculus.

00:46:24.000 So that, I mean, but he did graduate college with another degree.

00:46:27.000 So there is this kind of chopping down to easier degrees.

00:46:31.000 But as far as like this anti-intellectualism trend that I was describing, this actually did...

00:46:37.000 It was recognized along the way.

00:46:39.000 So there's this – one of the guys in the Frankfurt School's name was Herbert Marcuse.

00:46:43.000 This is the guy who laid out the idea of repressive tolerance that you have to violently fight against ideas that might cause intolerance to rise up.

00:46:51.000 He did that in 1965. What happened in 1967 and 1968?

00:46:55.000 Riots following his ideas exactly.

00:46:59.000 And so Marcuse was on TV in like 77, right before he died.

00:47:04.000 He died I think in the early 80s or late 70s.

00:47:06.000 And he complained about his own movement that he started that had got completely anti-intellectual.

00:47:11.000 They weren't doing the hard work.

00:47:12.000 They weren't doing the right stuff.

00:47:13.000 They were just doing the easy stuff.

00:47:15.000 And he actually complained on TV that this had happened, that there had been a sliding away from the serious work and toward the easier complaining stuff.

00:47:23.000 And so, yeah, I think that it's historically justifiable that that's exactly what happened.

00:47:28.000 And of course, you know, I was here before and we talked about those fake papers that Peter and Helen and I wrote.

00:47:33.000 Let's tell everybody what those are just because it's an amazing source of enjoyment and entertainment for folks that are looking for something to read.

00:47:41.000 Right.

00:47:42.000 So we don't lose the point real quick.

00:47:44.000 We did in less than like 10 months the almost equivalent of a whole academic career in this stuff and we're amateurs.

00:47:52.000 And you did it as a joke and it got passed off as real and then actually applauded.

00:47:56.000 That's right.

00:47:57.000 So we wrote 20 fake academic papers in these exact fields, critical race theory, gender studies.

00:48:04.000 Peter Boghossian did it with you and Helen Pluckrose.

00:48:08.000 Yeah, Pluckrose.

00:48:09.000 Pluckrose.

00:48:10.000 Yeah, the second most English name ever.

00:48:12.000 She wrote cynical theories with you.

00:48:15.000 Yeah, that's a very English name.

00:48:18.000 It is a very English name.

00:48:19.000 So we wrote these papers to try to show that this scholarship is bogus.

00:48:25.000 And so we spent just under a year writing crazy stuff.

00:48:30.000 Please tell people the dog park one.

00:48:32.000 You love them.

00:48:32.000 So the dog park paper was actually, I think, kind of the masterpiece of the thing.

00:48:37.000 So we wrote this paper.

00:48:40.000 Where we claim that we're a feminist researcher who spent 1,000 hours in Portland, Oregon dog parks over the course of one year, never in the heavy rain.

00:48:49.000 We put that in the paper, never in the heavy rain, like that's some relevant detail or something.

00:48:53.000 So 1,000 hours over a year is already ridiculous.

00:48:56.000 That's like six hours a day. 0.66

00:48:58.000 Every day.

00:49:00.000 That's so much time.

00:49:01.000 I know.

00:49:01.000 And what we said she did was she watched dog humping incidents and tried to determine when they counted as dog rapes and when they didn't.

00:49:11.000 What was the name of the paper, though?

00:49:13.000 Oh, it was, what was it?

00:49:16.000 Queer Performativity and, well, how does it go? 0.99

00:49:20.000 Because they had all the buzzwords, right?

00:49:22.000 Yeah, heteronormative was in there.

00:49:23.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:49:24.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:49:25.000 And queer performativity in urban dog parks in Portland, Oregon. 0.97

00:49:29.000 Rape culture and queer performativity, that's what it was, rape culture. 1.00

00:49:32.000 Yeah, that's what it was. 0.96

00:49:32.000 Yeah, so we said that she watched these dogfights and dog rapes and all this stuff. 0.96

00:49:39.000 And we put this crazy stuff in there, like, sometimes they try to break up a dogfight by doing jumping jacks by the dog or singing songs. 0.81

00:49:45.000 It's just ridiculous. 0.63

00:49:46.000 And the dogs are pooping on each other. 0.95

00:49:47.000 We put that in the paper. 0.88

00:49:49.000 And then we said when there was a dog humping that she would go up and she would inspect the dog's genitals and she inspected 10,000 dogs' genitals and then interrogated the owners about their sexual orientations. 0.84

00:50:00.000 What she wanted to find out was if straight men would discourage gay dog humping versus straight dog humping and it was different for women and gay men. 0.87

00:50:11.000 And then we said we're going to pass that data through black feminist criminology, which makes no sense. 1.00

00:50:18.000 And then we said that the conclusion was that dog parks are petri dishes of canine rape culture and that they are rape condoning spaces just like human nightclubs. 0.82

00:50:28.000 So human nightclubs are automatically now rape condoning spaces. 1.00

00:50:32.000 And so the conclusion was that we now have to train men the way that we train dogs with like leashes and shot collars and things in order to get rape culture to go away.

00:50:44.000 And they give this an award. 0.99

00:50:45.000 LAUGHTER And so it's like the bullshit level is just insane. 1.00

00:50:52.000 What was the award? 1.00

00:50:53.000 So they had a thing.

00:50:54.000 It was their anniversary.

00:50:56.000 The journal is the number one feminist geography journal in the world.

00:50:59.000 And it was their 25th anniversary edition.

00:51:02.000 What's the name of the journal?

00:51:02.000 Gender, Place, and Culture.

00:51:05.000 And it's the leading feminist geography journal in the world.

00:51:08.000 And they had their 25th year.

00:51:11.000 So they're on their 25th anniversary.

00:51:12.000 And so what they wanted to do was highlight one paper per issue the entire year as being exemplary scholarship in feminist geography.

00:51:19.000 And ours was chosen.

00:51:21.000 Yeah.

00:51:22.000 I can tell you, man, it was the craziest thing ever.

00:51:26.000 I remember, I'm almost positive it was May 7th, 2018, I got the email.

00:51:31.000 And it's like, I can remember, it was just like, go in the house, I was out doing like yard work or something, and I come in, and I check my email.

00:51:38.000 And I just remember like, Gaping at the screen.

00:51:43.000 I'm like, this can't be happening.

00:51:45.000 Because I thought – I just saw the editor and I'm like, oh, no.

00:51:47.000 They figured it out, right?

00:51:48.000 And we're going to give it an award.

00:51:50.000 And so I end up – I grab – because we're making a documentary about it, right?

00:51:54.000 So we got a filmmaker, Mike Naina.

00:51:56.000 He's the one that did that three-part documentary of Evergreen that showed everybody how – I mean that's where everybody's Evergreen now.

00:52:02.000 And so Mike, it was like, anything that happens, film it.

00:52:05.000 So I grab my GoPro and I have this footage and it's like sideways because I didn't even like think about it.

00:52:10.000 And I'm just like running outside trying to find my wife.

00:52:12.000 I'm like, you aren't going to believe this.

00:52:13.000 You aren't going to believe this.

00:52:13.000 Oh my gosh.

00:52:14.000 You know, there's a really freaking crazy, you know, like it's almost like it's almost like the world slid off of its foundation a little bit when they get that paper and award for me.

00:52:24.000 It was just so weird.

00:52:25.000 Well, you nailed it.

00:52:27.000 We did.

00:52:27.000 You really nailed it.

00:52:28.000 You came so close.

00:52:31.000 To reality, but yet still lived in the world of parody.

00:52:35.000 That's right.

00:52:35.000 But you said all the things that you need.

00:52:37.000 It just shows that there's such a high tolerance for bullshit in those air quotes disciplines. 0.99

00:52:43.000 Right. 0.97

00:52:43.000 And those air quotes disciplines are now being mainlined into every university, every school, every corporate boardroom. 0.97

00:52:50.000 How did that happen?

00:52:52.000 I mean, we were talking about, you know, the raising the frequency thing when these events happen, but mostly they took over our colleges of education about 1980, and so they've been slowly turning teachers to the project.

00:53:05.000 And then in 2002 and 2003, there were a couple of Supreme Court cases that were talking about affirmative action.

00:53:14.000 And they said that if you want to do affirmative action, you can do it if it increases diversity and equity and inclusion.

00:53:19.000 So they started to build these offices in the university.

00:53:22.000 And those university offices started to, like, dictate what you could and couldn't say.

00:53:25.000 You could get in trouble or brought up to hearings.

00:53:28.000 Even if you don't—even if the hearing finds you innocent, you still had to waste your time going through this humiliating hearing.

00:53:32.000 And they're bringing up stuff and all your—you know, how do you—imagine you're, like, in a department, right?

00:53:38.000 And you get hauled before the diversity office.

00:53:40.000 What are all your colleagues thinking about you now?

00:53:42.000 Like, what did he do?

00:53:43.000 Right.

00:53:43.000 Of course.

00:53:44.000 So all of a sudden, it starts just pushing everybody to not criticize this stuff.

00:53:48.000 Mm-hmm.

00:53:49.000 Right?

00:53:49.000 Self-censorship.

00:53:50.000 Exactly.

00:53:51.000 Out of fear.

00:53:52.000 Silencing people.

00:53:53.000 Getting them to silence themselves, actually.

00:53:55.000 And so then they take that lack of criticism and then they can just go crazy with their stuff.

00:54:01.000 It's like critical race theory specifically.

00:54:02.000 People email me all the time and they say, where are the scholarly criticisms of critical race theory?

00:54:08.000 And I actually write back.

00:54:09.000 I'm like, you're not allowed to do that.

00:54:12.000 Like the most recent ones in law journals, like substantive ones, are from the 1990s.

00:54:17.000 So there's nobody criticizing this stuff.

00:54:19.000 So when you aren't criticizing it, I mean, scholarship depends on people shooting down your bad ideas.

00:54:24.000 You know, when South Park talks about them smelling their own farts or whatever, smelling each other's farts, it literally, it's like, it's that.

00:54:30.000 That's what's happening.

00:54:32.000 Nobody's ever telling them that they're wrong.

00:54:34.000 Nobody's ever allowed to, and you can't criticize it.

00:54:36.000 Why?

00:54:36.000 Because if you criticize critical race theory, you must be a racist.

00:54:39.000 Now, what was the response to you guys getting an award for that once you revealed that this was all horseshit? 0.99

00:54:46.000 Oh, she wasn't happy. 0.89

00:54:47.000 The editor of that journal was not happy.

00:54:48.000 She felt, like, betrayed, like, you know...

00:54:51.000 Well, she was.

00:54:52.000 She was.

00:54:53.000 But she felt, you know, like, I had been so nice.

00:54:55.000 I was so kind to her.

00:54:56.000 And she was very kind to me.

00:54:57.000 I have to be...

00:54:58.000 She was a very nice person.

00:55:00.000 Most of these people, that's very important.

00:55:01.000 These aren't mostly nice people.

00:55:03.000 There are some hustlers, and they take advantage of that situation.

00:55:06.000 Yeah.

00:55:06.000 Because that's what this is really wide open to, is hustlers.

00:55:09.000 So she was a nice person, but she's living in that world, and she thought that all that stuff made sense.

00:55:13.000 Yeah.

00:55:14.000 I mean, that's the thing, is they think this stuff's all real.

00:55:17.000 Yeah.

00:55:18.000 It's like they've kind of gone into this mass delusion, where everything's power dynamics, and the power dynamics define how everybody experiences life, and Do you remember when Jordan Peterson was on television on the CBC and he was talking to some professor,

00:55:35.000 I think may or may not have been transgender, who was saying that there's no such thing as biological sex?

00:55:42.000 And I can unpack that for you if you'd like and then keep going as if it's just like you made a statement that there's no such thing as biological sex.

00:55:51.000 Right.

00:55:51.000 Yeah, that's – I mean that's got a pedigree in academic literature going back to actually at least the early 1990s.

00:55:59.000 I had an argument with a professor about it on the show.

00:56:01.000 It was like it's not – there's no – I go, so there's no difference between males and females.

00:56:04.000 I go, so if you buy a male puppy and they give you a female, do you complain?

00:56:09.000 What did he say to that?

00:56:10.000 He didn't know what to say.

00:56:13.000 You could tell when he was saying the things he was saying that he was knowing that he was going to get support from the people that he works with.

00:56:20.000 Exactly.

00:56:21.000 It's this thing that you do where you've indoctrinated yourself into this world, or you've been indoctrinated, and now you have to sort of keep up...

00:56:31.000 That nonsense talk.

00:56:32.000 Do you hit it exactly then earlier?

00:56:34.000 Because I don't know if you've ever let the Jehovah's Witness in and talked to them. 1.00

00:56:38.000 But if you get them to where they have to go off script, sometimes it'll be like two of them.

00:56:41.000 They'll look at each other and they can mumble for a minute.

00:56:44.000 We'll have to go back and consult about that and we'll come back and talk to you later.

00:56:48.000 Mm-hmm.

00:56:48.000 It's like if they're not on the script, they don't know what to do.

00:56:51.000 So you catch them in this thing.

00:56:52.000 And that's actually the thing is it's crazy this stuff's taking over right now.

00:56:56.000 Mostly it's not because they're just calling people racist and everybody's good intentions are being played upon.

00:57:01.000 But if you give it the slightest pushback, they don't know what to do except to call your name.

00:57:06.000 Yeah, because in their world, you can say there's no such thing as biological sex.

00:57:10.000 Right.

00:57:11.000 Yeah, I have a friend who works at a very large newspaper and...

00:57:16.000 They said they can't say that there are two genders.

00:57:20.000 Like, if you say there are two genders, you will literally get thrown out of the office.

00:57:25.000 And they're like, we're not exaggerating this.

00:57:27.000 I mean, yeah, imagine that.

00:57:28.000 I have a friend that works in journalism who's gay and has a gay sensitivity reader to make sure that His writing is gay sensitive enough. 0.98

00:57:38.000 He's gay. 0.99

00:57:39.000 And he has a gay sensitivity reader. 0.95

00:57:42.000 To make sure his writing is gay enough. 0.97

00:57:44.000 Can he just check with himself? 0.98

00:57:45.000 You would think so.

00:57:46.000 Yeah, I would imagine.

00:57:47.000 You would think so.

00:57:48.000 Douglas Murray put something up on his Twitter because someone was describing a gay person as a cisgendered non-heteronormative, like something really crazy.

00:58:01.000 And he said, I think there's another word for that.

00:58:03.000 Right. 0.98

00:58:04.000 It's gay. 1.00

00:58:05.000 He's a gay person. 0.99

00:58:05.000 Yeah, that's right. 0.99

00:58:06.000 But it was like this super complicated nonsense expression that just meant gay, a gay person.

00:58:13.000 That's where, again, there's good comedy and bad comedy.

00:58:15.000 That's where George Carlin had that awesome classic bit where he talked about adding syllables and hyphens.

00:58:20.000 He's like, World War I, it was shell shock, and now it's post-traumatic stress disorder.

00:58:25.000 Eight syllables, one hyphen, he's counting them.

00:58:27.000 Yeah.

00:58:27.000 So it's like...

00:58:31.000 There's this weird language thing happening there with all these, like, he called it desensitizing or sterilizing language.

00:58:39.000 And that's what's happening.

00:58:40.000 So it takes all that meaning away, right?

00:58:42.000 So nobody knows what it means except for the guy preaching it.

00:58:45.000 So the guy doing the diversity training, I watched a diversity training.

00:58:48.000 Somebody sent me from their job the other day.

00:58:49.000 And this woman's, like, just droning on. 0.98

00:58:52.000 It felt like you're just getting, you know, imagine you're at the job.

00:58:54.000 Like, you have to do this for work.

00:58:56.000 You don't want to do it.

00:58:57.000 And you're just watching this webinar and this lady's just ramrodding like 12-syllable words at you. 1.00

00:59:02.000 She's like, okay, so we have to talk about microaggressions and there are different kinds of microaggressions.

00:59:07.000 There are microassaults.

00:59:08.000 And it's just like, what the hell is this?

00:59:11.000 Microassaults?

00:59:12.000 Microinsults and then micro...

00:59:13.000 What's a microassault?

00:59:14.000 A microassault is when you do it on purpose.

00:59:18.000 Like, but what is a microassault?

00:59:21.000 So a micro-assault would be making a small but racially salient comment in the presence of a person of that race.

00:59:32.000 Oh, so it's not even an assault assault?

00:59:33.000 Not necessarily racist.

00:59:34.000 No, it's not an assault.

00:59:35.000 No, these people – violence is all words and discursive aggression.

00:59:39.000 So a micro-assault can just be an insult?

00:59:42.000 They're all insults.

00:59:43.000 Micro-everything has to just be like words or standing in the wrong place.

00:59:48.000 Oh boy, Jamie just pulled it up here.

00:59:50.000 A microsault is an explicit racial derogations?

00:59:56.000 What is that?

00:59:57.000 Look at that expression.

00:59:59.000 A microsault is an explicit racial derogations.

01:00:03.000 So you've put somebody down on purpose.

01:00:06.000 I know, but that's a weird way of describing it.

01:00:08.000 An explicit racial derogations, plural.

01:00:11.000 Oh yeah.

01:00:12.000 Who wrote that?

01:00:13.000 Which is singular.

01:00:14.000 Yeah, that's not right.

01:00:15.000 Yeah.

01:00:16.000 They need an editor. 0.96

01:00:17.000 Derogations, plural, characterized primarily by a verbal or nonverbal attack meant to hurt the intended victim through name-calling, there's your hyphen, avoidant behavior, or purposeful discriminatory.actions.

01:00:31.000 The grammar on that's broken all to pieces.

01:00:33.000 It's a mess.

01:00:34.000 And that's kzoo.edu.

01:00:36.000 Reason.kzoo.edu.

01:00:39.000 Nice. 1.00

01:00:39.000 They didn't even bother editing that motherfucker. 1.00

01:00:42.000 Look at that. 0.99

01:00:42.000 There's so many of these things that are like for education that are like this. 0.99

01:00:46.000 And it's like they say stuff like themself.

01:00:49.000 And it's just like...

01:00:50.000 This is supposed to be for education.

01:00:52.000 It's barely literate.

01:00:53.000 What is going on?

01:00:54.000 Well, that's a problem when you're using they and them as well, right?

01:00:56.000 Yeah.

01:00:57.000 You start using they and them pronouns, which are really supposed to, I mean, for the most part, indicate multiple people.

01:01:04.000 Yeah, right.

01:01:05.000 Yeah.

01:01:05.000 Right, yeah, the singular they.

01:01:07.000 You could say, you know, so this guy, you could say, they thought, or they thought they would get away with it.

01:01:15.000 I mean, you could say it.

01:01:17.000 You could say, but it's hard to use it that way all the time.

01:01:21.000 Right.

01:01:21.000 It's hard to use it intentionally, actually.

01:01:23.000 It comes up naturally sometimes, and then it's fine, but it's hard to use intentionally.

01:01:28.000 Yeah.

01:01:28.000 If a person wanted to go to the store, they could go.

01:01:30.000 Right.

01:01:31.000 And so there's something, like, kind of totalitarian about making people do things like that that are difficult, like jumping through these little hoops and then holding them to massive account.

01:01:40.000 Yes.

01:01:40.000 And it's like, I mean, even, like, the Black Lives Matter thing.

01:01:43.000 Like, Black Lives Matter is a sentence. 1.00

01:01:45.000 Is obvious.

01:01:47.000 Forcing somebody to say an obvious thing.

01:01:49.000 That's a great name because you can't argue with it.

01:01:51.000 You also can't argue with it.

01:01:52.000 Yeah, of course they matter.

01:01:53.000 And of course, I mean, it's so complicated because it's like if somebody asked me, they said, OK, do you support Black Lives Matter?

01:01:59.000 James, do you support Black Lives Matter?

01:02:01.000 And of course, they're going to try to catch me on this.

01:02:02.000 And it's like, which one?

01:02:04.000 There's at least five. 1.00

01:02:05.000 I support one of them and I think the other four are nuts. 0.96

01:02:09.000 So there's Black Lives Matter. 0.96

01:02:10.000 All lowercase letters is a sentence.

01:02:12.000 You can't disagree with it because it's obvious that black lives actually matter.

01:02:17.000 And you shouldn't be forced to say obvious things.

01:02:19.000 But what is that?

01:02:20.000 That's a call, right?

01:02:22.000 They're saying, hey, look, white people...

01:02:25.000 People of other races, we have a different experience of this society, and it's bad. 1.00

01:02:29.000 And we need you to hear us.

01:02:31.000 And we want you to care.

01:02:32.000 And we want there to be action taken that we can work on together to figure out.

01:02:36.000 And who couldn't support that movement?

01:02:38.000 I think everybody in the world supports that movement.

01:02:40.000 But then you have the official one.

01:02:42.000 And their website's full of, like, literally neo-Marxist stuff.

01:02:46.000 And they're, like, weird, like, queer feminist something or another. 1.00

01:02:50.000 Like, seriously, it's all on their About page on the Black Lives Matter website.

01:02:53.000 Yeah.

01:02:53.000 And it's like, that's a lot of baggage, man.

01:02:55.000 I don't know if I'm for that.

01:02:56.000 And then you have like the training video comes out with the one saying, you know, we're trained Marxists.

01:02:59.000 And they are.

01:03:00.000 They're trained activists.

01:03:01.000 You don't actually have to go along with all of that to agree with the sentence.

01:03:05.000 Right.

01:03:05.000 Then you have this thing with white people.

01:03:09.000 There's like a Black Lives Matter movement that's white people that are like washing black people's feet and like calling them and apologizing and like freaking them out. 0.98

01:03:16.000 Right. 0.97

01:03:17.000 And I mean, this is actually horrible, too.

01:03:19.000 Oh, it's amazing.

01:03:20.000 Could you imagine what it's like being like somebody calls you like all your all your white friends start calling you and they're like, by the way, I've always kind of been racist.

01:03:28.000 Like you had a relationship with that person.

01:03:30.000 And now it's so awkward.

01:03:32.000 My favorite one was the white actors that all got together in that black and white film.

01:03:37.000 No kidding.

01:03:38.000 Isn't that amazing?

01:03:39.000 That was so, oh my gosh. 1.00

01:03:40.000 That's so stupid. 1.00

01:03:42.000 And it was ones in there that I really enjoyed. 1.00

01:03:44.000 I really enjoyed their work. 0.99

01:03:45.000 The problem is these motherfuckers haven't worked in months and they want attention. 1.00

01:03:49.000 That's right. 1.00

01:03:50.000 They wanted attention and they weren't getting it.

01:03:52.000 So they're like, I know how to really juice this up in my favorite.

01:03:56.000 Me, me, me, me, me, me. 1.00

01:03:57.000 It's so dumb. 1.00

01:03:58.000 It's so dumb. 1.00

01:03:59.000 Aaron Paul, he broke my heart. 1.00

01:04:00.000 Oh.

01:04:01.000 I saw him in there.

01:04:02.000 Yeah.

01:04:02.000 The actor, the Breaking Bad guy.

01:04:04.000 Yeah.

01:04:04.000 He's amazing.

01:04:04.000 I love that dude.

01:04:05.000 And then...

01:04:06.000 I was like, bro, I wish I would have talked to you before that.

01:04:08.000 I know.

01:04:08.000 I can tell you how this goes.

01:04:10.000 I can tell you what happens next.

01:04:11.000 This ain't good, man.

01:04:12.000 This ain't good.

01:04:13.000 Because guys like me are going to watch it.

01:04:14.000 That's right.

01:04:14.000 Let me tell you, we're going to make fun of it.

01:04:16.000 A lot.

01:04:17.000 That's right. 0.99

01:04:18.000 Get the fuck out of here. 0.99

01:04:18.000 It was so funny. 0.99

01:04:19.000 So then there's two more.

01:04:21.000 We'll just drop them.

01:04:22.000 Okay.

01:04:22.000 Whatever these...

01:04:24.000 But I wanted to get back to this if you don't mind.

01:04:26.000 When that piece came out and you got the award and then they found out, you said that she was pissed off.

01:04:33.000 I got this email from her that was short, but it was like, I'm really hurt that you were deceptive to me.

01:04:40.000 It was kind of like that.

01:04:41.000 I felt bad, actually.

01:04:42.000 Like, I don't – I'm not – I didn't do it to, like, be mean to people.

01:04:46.000 Right.

01:04:46.000 You did it to prove a point.

01:04:47.000 Like, I actually – you know, the saying, you know, you play the ball, don't play the man, right?

01:04:51.000 Yes.

01:04:52.000 So I guess I said it backwards if it's a saying.

01:04:55.000 It's don't play the man, play the ball.

01:04:57.000 This was about ideas for me.

01:04:59.000 Like, that project was about the ideas.

01:05:01.000 It was about the scholarship.

01:05:02.000 It wasn't about the people.

01:05:02.000 And I felt like it was really unfortunate.

01:05:05.000 Right.

01:05:17.000 I'm not a perfect person.

01:05:19.000 When they pissed you off, what did they write?

01:05:21.000 Oh, this one woman. 0.79

01:05:22.000 We wrote a paper about masculinity at Hooters.

01:05:28.000 And we said that the only reason guys go there is – I mean besides the obvious wanting to ogle chicks.

01:05:33.000 But the main reason was so that they could order – like double meaning in the word order, right?

01:05:38.000 Order their food.

01:05:38.000 They could order pretty young women around that have to do what they say.

01:05:43.000 And, you know, they can patriarchally order – taking their orders is a pun.

01:05:49.000 And this one woman wrote like this long review of it and she was like, this paper – remember, it was submitted to a journal called Men and Masculinities.

01:06:00.000 It was a paper that was supposed to study the masculinity.

01:06:03.000 And she wrote back, this paper talks about men instead of women and victim blames and blah, blah, blah, blah. 0.99

01:06:09.000 I'm like, oh, you can go to hell. 0.98

01:06:11.000 You know, basically, I'm like, come on. 0.95

01:06:14.000 I mean, it was aggravated also because my paper didn't get in because of that.

01:06:17.000 It's like, why would a paper about men and masculinity have to be about the women?

01:06:22.000 Oh, because feminism, that's why. 1.00

01:06:24.000 Of course.

01:06:25.000 And it's like, it's so annoying that, so that aggravated me.

01:06:29.000 Most of them, the rest of them, were actually, like, really nice people.

01:06:34.000 So...

01:06:35.000 I think your feeling is that there's really nice people that get bamboozled into really bad ideas.

01:06:42.000 And then when you snuck in these hoax papers, that you're essentially speaking their lingo and they don't even know that they have a lingo.

01:06:52.000 That's right.

01:06:52.000 And so I actually think that what we're looking at with this woke movement, and we've kind of compared it to cult, we've kind of compared it to real, I actually think it's evil.

01:07:01.000 And the reason is because exactly what you just said.

01:07:03.000 It plays on people's best nature.

01:07:06.000 It takes good people and twists them to its purpose.

01:07:10.000 And that's horrible.

01:07:11.000 Like the whole game is to try to make you a nicer, more caring person.

01:07:16.000 So it takes your care and turns it into something literally totalitarian.

01:07:20.000 You're not allowed to disagree with it.

01:07:22.000 Anything you say, you get branded with these horrible stigmas.

01:07:26.000 They try to cancel people.

01:07:27.000 And it's like it's literally trying to use people's best, fairest, most just and caring instincts to make them program into this way of thinking.

01:07:42.000 Right.

01:07:50.000 Right.

01:08:09.000 And think it's the moral thing to do.

01:08:11.000 That's where you've got some danger going on.

01:08:12.000 And the reason they do that, by the way, is because they think everything happening is violence.

01:08:16.000 Like, why does Antifa, by the way, that's the fourth Black Lives Matter movement, is these Antifa agitators starting the riots. 0.51

01:08:21.000 Why do they feel justified in throwing a brick through a Starbucks?

01:08:24.000 Why do they feel justified in starting yelling about targets?

01:08:27.000 Why does this keep happening?

01:08:29.000 And the reason this is going to sound absolutely insane, but it's actually true, is that they believe that something like Starbucks is a big corporation.

01:08:36.000 And when it comes into a neighborhood, it starts taking resources, capitalist resources, money from that neighborhood and then dumping it into a corporation.

01:08:44.000 And they see that as a form of violence against the neighborhood.

01:08:46.000 So they're justified in using violence to disrupt that by throwing a brick through the window, even though it's probably some franchise owner who's just trying to make a buck, trying to have a job that runs it.

01:08:55.000 That's crazy.

01:08:56.000 Yeah, I mean, it is.

01:08:58.000 That's actually what the theoretical justification is with regard to that aspect of the theory.

01:09:03.000 But do these people who are actually doing this know this, that that's why they're doing it?

01:09:07.000 Or, I mean, is this written anywhere?

01:09:09.000 Oh, yeah.

01:09:09.000 The Antifa books are crazy.

01:09:11.000 They talk about...

01:09:12.000 Collection of capital, any kind of racist or sexist or whatever language as they want to determine it being a form of violence.

01:09:19.000 They call these things like epistemic violence in some of the literature.

01:09:22.000 They call it discursive violence in some of the literature.

01:09:25.000 Sometimes they just call it violence.

01:09:26.000 In queer theory, calling somebody saying you're a man or a woman is called a violence of categorization.

01:09:32.000 So there's all these different types of violence, and they're sort of marinating in this idea that these things that are happening, the way people talk, micro-assault, is a violence.

01:09:41.000 And I mean, I even saw a thing somebody sent me today from some university, Indiana maybe, where the person's saying that, you know, we're tearing down these physical monuments, but maybe we need to think about discursive, so verbal monuments.

01:09:56.000 And then in the middle of this, which is otherwise...

01:09:59.000 Cracked but not violent.

01:10:01.000 He actually says something to the effect of that we really need to be prepared to do violence against this violence.

01:10:08.000 And so they're marinating in these kinds of thoughts.

01:10:11.000 So you get these like – like with Antifa, what are these dudes?

01:10:13.000 These dudes are like hopped up, mostly young men trying to put out – I mean there's some women in there too of course.

01:10:18.000 But there's a lot of young men who are like doing their young male rage and they're pissed off at society and they've read all these books saying how America sucks and how it hurts all these poor people.

01:10:30.000 It hurts.

01:10:30.000 I think?

01:10:49.000 Yeah.

01:10:49.000 They're living on Twitter and also they're broke.

01:10:51.000 Exactly.

01:10:52.000 You're losing your job.

01:10:53.000 So they feel justified to loot.

01:10:54.000 They feel justified to smash and rob.

01:10:56.000 And they don't even have to really intellectualize it or really – like when they're rationalizing this, they don't have to really make cogent points.

01:11:02.000 They just have to have like some iconic enemy in their head.

01:11:06.000 Right.

01:11:07.000 We really should have saw Target getting set on fire when Target got deemed essential and people started making a big deal about Target's essential.

01:11:13.000 Why is Target essential? 1.00

01:11:14.000 Because you need to buy toilet paper, you fuck. 1.00

01:11:17.000 Jesus Christ. 1.00

01:11:18.000 That's right.

01:11:18.000 What's weird is, I mean, it's just weird how quickly it happened.

01:11:23.000 And it clearly exacerbated by the lockdowns.

01:11:27.000 That's right.

01:11:34.000 Right.

01:11:35.000 And so it's – OK. I'm not – let me start right – and this is already bad, but I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

01:11:41.000 I don't actually buy into conspiracies.

01:11:42.000 But we are in a situation because of a lot of political currents for the last 50 years where there's a lot of billionaire philanthropist groups, right?

01:11:50.000 That generate a lot of money.

01:12:08.000 Tracks that you could read and the little videos.

01:12:10.000 The speed and the educational curricula and the guides for here's a bunch of resources for how to remake your business.

01:12:17.000 This stuff came out fast.

01:12:19.000 So what I think is actually going on is political operative types wait for – I mean the saying is never let a good crisis go to waste, right?

01:12:26.000 So they wait for a precipitating event and then they've been making – Easy Digest materials for a long time and paying people like, you know, hey, come work for our forum.

01:12:37.000 What we really need to do is look at how we can get books for like anti-racist toddler books, you know, anti-racist kids.

01:12:44.000 And so they get people writing these books and they think they're doing it.

01:12:46.000 It's not like some, you know, boardroom nasty stuff.

01:12:49.000 Right.

01:12:50.000 Right.

01:13:07.000 Frustrated and emotional about it.

01:13:10.000 The amount of being lied to that's just so obvious, you know, through a lot of the news right now at these protests, especially in riots, is just galling.

01:13:18.000 Well, the article that I showed you that shows that the COVID kick up, the uptick in cases had nothing to do with Black Lives Matter, but probably had to do with people staying inside.

01:13:28.000 Yeah.

01:13:29.000 It's just gaslighting, man.

01:13:31.000 But that's the craziest gaslighting ever.

01:13:33.000 So why are you making everybody stay inside then?

01:13:36.000 Because that means that the disease is going to get even worse.

01:13:38.000 Right.

01:13:38.000 If we're being forced to lock in and shut down and stay home, that's going to make the disease worse, according to your article.

01:13:45.000 They're like, which way does it go?

01:13:47.000 And nobody knows.

01:13:48.000 And then you live in this...

01:13:49.000 I don't know what's true about...

01:13:51.000 COVID at all now.

01:13:53.000 It's like you were allowed to go out in, like, groups less than 10, but not if you were protesting, then they could be up to 1,000 or something.

01:13:59.000 Oh, it could be multiple thousands.

01:14:00.000 It's like, what in the world is going on?

01:14:02.000 Once you're protesting, and as long as it's a good cause, everybody could die.

01:14:05.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:14:06.000 It's fine.

01:14:07.000 It's because racism is the real virus, is what they actually said.

01:14:10.000 Well, that's a real virus, too. 1.00

01:14:13.000 But that COVID shit's real. 1.00

01:14:15.000 Trust me. 1.00

01:14:16.000 It's a thing.

01:14:16.000 I know multiple people that have it right now.

01:14:19.000 I also know people who have had it and a couple who do.

01:14:22.000 It's not good.

01:14:23.000 Not good.

01:14:24.000 Yeah.

01:14:24.000 Like, yeah, even young people.

01:14:27.000 Yeah.

01:14:27.000 Like, they're still going to this.

01:14:28.000 Like, my friends are still going to the hospital because they don't quite know what's wrong with them after having had it.

01:14:32.000 Vitamin D, kids.

01:14:33.000 Take a shitload of it.

01:14:34.000 Very important.

01:14:35.000 Get out in the sun.

01:14:36.000 It took like 50,000 IU before I flew out here.

01:14:38.000 Yes.

01:14:39.000 Good move.

01:14:39.000 Yeah, no joke.

01:14:40.000 I take 5,000 IU every day.

01:14:42.000 Yeah.

01:14:42.000 Yeah, so do I. Without fail.

01:14:44.000 Yep.

01:14:44.000 And I take zinc, and I take magnesium, and I take 4,000 milligrams of vitamin C, and I do a 10,000 milligram vitamin C IV every week.

01:14:57.000 Holy shit. 1.00

01:14:57.000 Yeah, I'm not fucking around, son. 1.00

01:14:59.000 You're not fucking around. 0.99

01:14:59.000 And I still get nervous. 0.99

01:15:02.000 Well, you don't want to get the COVID. I'm scared.

01:15:04.000 I mean, it's serious.

01:15:05.000 It's serious.

01:15:06.000 And people are scared.

01:15:07.000 And, you know, you can channel that fear.

01:15:10.000 You can channel that anger.

01:15:11.000 I know.

01:15:11.000 And I'm healthy.

01:15:12.000 Right.

01:15:13.000 Imagine if I was obese or had diabetes or...

01:15:16.000 Oh, you can't talk about that.

01:15:17.000 Yeah.

01:15:17.000 No, no, no.

01:15:18.000 Fat shaming?

01:15:19.000 Yeah.

01:15:19.000 Fat shaming?

01:15:19.000 Yeah.

01:15:20.000 That's like fat shaming.

01:15:21.000 Yeah.

01:15:21.000 Obesity is not allowed to be talked about as a medical relevant condition.

01:15:25.000 That is called medicalizing obesity.

01:15:27.000 I love Jon Stewart to death.

01:15:29.000 He's amazing.

01:15:29.000 But we did a podcast the other day and he actually said, you can be overweight and be healthy.

01:15:33.000 And I had to stop him.

01:15:34.000 I said, no, you can't.

01:15:36.000 That's not true.

01:15:37.000 That's literally, it shows that you have an issue.

01:15:40.000 That's a sign of non-health.

01:15:44.000 Yeah.

01:15:44.000 Of not being healthy.

01:15:45.000 It's a tax on your body.

01:15:47.000 For sure, your body works harder.

01:15:48.000 But he's just so nice that he wanted to say it because it's a thing that people like to say and he wanted those people to like him and not come after him.

01:15:57.000 It's exactly what we were saying.

01:15:58.000 It's using that impulse to be kind, that impulse to be nice, and turning it into something.

01:16:03.000 And that narrative that there's nothing to do with health.

01:16:08.000 Actually, it's trademarked and everything.

01:16:09.000 Health at every size.

01:16:11.000 It was a movement.

01:16:12.000 Actually, there was a blog I used to follow.

01:16:14.000 That's where I first learned about it.

01:16:15.000 It was called Dances with Fat.

01:16:17.000 And it's this woman who's very overweight who danced around. 1.00

01:16:19.000 And she's a good dancer, actually. 1.00

01:16:20.000 She really was.

01:16:22.000 And then she tried to run a marathon, and she couldn't run the marathon because she didn't...

01:16:27.000 She finished the marathon, but there was a time limit.

01:16:30.000 And she finished after the time limit, so it didn't count.

01:16:32.000 So she lost her marbles about it and said, you know, the time limits are oppressive and fat exclusionary and all this.

01:16:39.000 Like nine hours or something.

01:16:41.000 So she then created another blog called Iron Fat, where she was going to do an Iron Man.

01:16:47.000 But fat.

01:16:48.000 While fat.

01:16:48.000 To prove that fat has nothing to do with health.

01:16:51.000 Well, the swimming part, she's got down because she can take her time because she's floating.

01:16:56.000 That's harsh.

01:16:57.000 It's true. 0.98

01:16:57.000 Fat people float. 0.98

01:16:58.000 Actually, in cold water, they lose a lot of weight, too.

01:17:01.000 I don't know if you know that.

01:17:02.000 People who swim in the English Channel actually have to gain weight so they can swim off.

01:17:05.000 Oh, that makes sense.

01:17:06.000 Because of cold water.

01:17:07.000 You actually do almost 20 pounds.

01:17:09.000 Oh, it makes sense.

01:17:10.000 Yeah, because it's a massive caloric requirement to keep your body warm in that freezing water.

01:17:15.000 What's that?

01:17:16.000 Phelps?

01:17:16.000 The Olympic swimmer.

01:17:18.000 Oh, yeah, that's right.

01:17:19.000 Where he was eating, like, 15,000 calories a day and staying, like, cut.

01:17:23.000 Ripped. 1.00

01:17:24.000 Giant pizzas and shit. 1.00

01:17:25.000 Yeah, but he's swimming in 68-degree water, 72-degree water for four hours a day or something. 0.99

01:17:30.000 Makes sense.

01:17:30.000 Yeah.

01:17:31.000 So, yeah, they have this whole thing, though.

01:17:34.000 Fat dancing.

01:17:36.000 Well, yeah, the Iron Fat Lady. 1.00

01:17:38.000 They have this whole thing that you can't associate obesity and health at all.

01:17:44.000 It's not allowed.

01:17:45.000 It's considered...

01:17:46.000 It's considered a medicalizing narrative. 0.98

01:17:48.000 And if we were to come up with, let's say, like you invented tomorrow Joe Rogan's, you know, you're getting a supplement company, and Joe Rogan's weight loss pill, but not like some bullshit. 0.95

01:17:56.000 Imagine it really worked, right?

01:17:57.000 So everybody who takes this pill within the course of a month would get to their ideal body weight, right?

01:18:04.000 By pill magic.

01:18:06.000 Just imagine.

01:18:07.000 They would actually, in fat studies, which is a real, critical fat studies, it's a real thing.

01:18:12.000 We wrote a paper about that, too.

01:18:14.000 They would call that a fat genocide because you're getting rid of all the fat people.

01:18:19.000 But every one of them is healthier.

01:18:21.000 Well, you're not getting rid of them.

01:18:22.000 They are healthier, but they can always choose to be fat again. 0.99

01:18:25.000 So that's the problem with this shit is it plays on people's best instincts while giving like the worst possible reading of everything. 1.00

01:18:31.000 Right. 1.00

01:18:31.000 Like they literally would... 1.00

01:18:32.000 It takes away personal accountability as well.

01:18:35.000 Right.

01:18:35.000 They actually say that in disability studies about people who are deaf.

01:18:38.000 If they invented a surgery or whatever that fixed deafness or an implant that could fix deafness for everybody, they say it's a deaf genocide because there'd be no deaf people left.

01:18:46.000 Do they really say that?

01:18:47.000 Yeah.

01:18:47.000 God, my God.

01:18:48.000 That's so silly. 0.98

01:18:49.000 And so, I mean, you can see it's just like... 1.00

01:18:52.000 God, that's so silly. 0.75

01:18:53.000 Restoring a sense is a genocide on people who are handicapped. 0.95

01:18:57.000 As somebody who's lost senses, I can tell you, you want them back or you want them to have them if you don't.

01:19:02.000 You were saying when you had your head injury that you couldn't taste anything?

01:19:06.000 Yeah, so I hit my head really bad in January 2011 and cracked my skull.

01:19:12.000 How'd you do it?

01:19:13.000 Pull-ups, pull-up bar came apart.

01:19:14.000 Oh my god.

01:19:16.000 I was doing those badass ones where you pull up and then touch your feet.

01:19:19.000 So I was horizontal, seven feet off the ground, and the pull-up bar came apart.

01:19:23.000 And boom, back of the head on concrete.

01:19:25.000 Oh my god, dude.

01:19:27.000 Oh, it was bad, man.

01:19:28.000 It was bad.

01:19:29.000 Like my ears were ringing for like a month.

01:19:32.000 I'll tell you this because you fight so you'll understand.

01:19:34.000 I hit my head, the back of my head so hard that I deviated my septum.

01:19:38.000 Oh my god.

01:19:39.000 Nothing hit my nose, but my nostrils aren't the same as they were before ever since.

01:19:44.000 Oh my god.

01:19:44.000 So I woke up the next morning.

01:19:46.000 I mean, I didn't go to sleep for a long time because I was like, I've got a concussion. 0.99

01:19:49.000 I'm fucked. 0.96

01:19:50.000 And so then I get up eventually the next morning after I decide I can sleep because my pupils aren't doing any of the things. 0.99

01:19:55.000 And I drank my coffee.

01:19:58.000 I'm like, man, my coffee tastes...

01:20:00.000 Really weird.

01:20:01.000 I'm really knocked silly.

01:20:02.000 And then I realized sometime during the day I couldn't smell anything and I couldn't taste anything.

01:20:06.000 And so then I went through this process for like two years of growing those senses back.

01:20:10.000 I actually think you learn to smell and taste things.

01:20:13.000 I think that's why kids hate vegetables.

01:20:14.000 It's like they haven't learned how to process the taste yet.

01:20:17.000 Wow.

01:20:18.000 Stuff tasted really weird.

01:20:19.000 I had phases where my coffee and garlic and grape juice would all taste exactly the same.

01:20:25.000 I know a fighter, and he's had a long career, and after one of his fights, he lost his sense of smell.

01:20:33.000 It happens.

01:20:33.000 Yeah, he was saying that what drove him crazy was he couldn't smell his daughter's hair.

01:20:38.000 Yeah.

01:20:38.000 Like, you would hug his daughter.

01:20:40.000 He couldn't smell her.

01:20:40.000 It's so weird.

01:20:41.000 Everything's just neutral.

01:20:42.000 It's so weird.

01:20:43.000 It's really...

01:20:44.000 It's depressing.

01:20:45.000 I was, like, putting, like, Vicks VapoRub, like, right under my nose, like, smearing it.

01:20:48.000 I couldn't smell it.

01:20:49.000 I would just kind of burn on the skin.

01:20:51.000 And what were doctors saying as far as the...

01:20:54.000 They said sometimes it recovers and sometimes it doesn't.

01:20:57.000 It's about 5% of back of the head concussions.

01:21:00.000 And mine came back, and I think it's mostly back to normal.

01:21:04.000 I mean, I learned the hard way about a year ago that I still couldn't smell spoiled milk.

01:21:10.000 Oh, you can't smell?

01:21:12.000 I can't now, because this is why I think you learn it, because if you can't smell, for me, my experience was that if I couldn't smell or taste something and I just kept forcing myself to have it, before long I could, and then it would start to taste normal.

01:21:28.000 Really?

01:21:29.000 Really?

01:21:29.000 But anything that I avoided.

01:21:30.000 So when would I ever drink spoiled milk?

01:21:32.000 When would I experience spoiled milk?

01:21:33.000 So all of a sudden I came home from a trip like last year and I'm like, you know, I busted open the cream from my coffee and I've like poured it in and I'm like, this is a sour coffee.

01:21:44.000 It was like a new coffee.

01:21:45.000 So I thought it was maybe just like really acidic.

01:21:47.000 I was like, this is really kind of gross.

01:21:49.000 And I walked by my wife and she was like, what?

01:21:51.000 What is it?

01:21:51.000 Ugh.

01:21:52.000 Poor that.

01:21:53.000 Ugh.

01:21:53.000 You know, what is that?

01:21:54.000 She could smell it.

01:21:55.000 Out of my coffee, even.

01:21:57.000 Wow.

01:21:57.000 And then I couldn't smell it.

01:21:58.000 But then I started to...

01:22:00.000 I actually...

01:22:00.000 It's kind of gross, but I actually bought a bottle of milk and just let it go bad.

01:22:04.000 Just so you could force yourself to smell it.

01:22:06.000 So I practiced smelling it.

01:22:07.000 Now I can smell it.

01:22:07.000 Wow.

01:22:08.000 You're practicing the smell.

01:22:10.000 Wow.

01:22:10.000 It would come back, yeah.

01:22:11.000 And so what the doctor said when I hit my head, though, is that two things are happening.

01:22:15.000 One happens in the brain and they don't know what's going on.

01:22:17.000 And the other is that the nerve fibers through the ethmoid bone in your nose either can stretch or tear.

01:22:23.000 And those have to, if they do, they go dormant and they have to wake back up over time.

01:22:27.000 Jesus Christ.

01:22:28.000 So I got lucky, I suppose, because mine seems to be more or less back to normal.

01:22:32.000 But a year ago...

01:22:34.000 Well, obviously, yeah.

01:22:35.000 So you still have an issue.

01:22:36.000 So anything that I haven't encountered, I probably won't smell correctly.

01:22:40.000 What about farts?

01:22:41.000 And what kind of farts are you smelling?

01:22:43.000 Smell like regular farts? 0.78

01:22:44.000 I think I got those covered at this point.

01:22:46.000 I have a lot of...

01:22:47.000 I practice those, too.

01:22:49.000 Yeah, because some farts are different.

01:22:51.000 Yeah, that's right.

01:22:51.000 Silent, violent.

01:22:52.000 Yeah, but what about gases?

01:22:54.000 That was a thing, right?

01:22:56.000 I couldn't smell smoke for a long time.

01:22:59.000 That's scary.

01:22:59.000 That was actually properly scary.

01:23:01.000 Oh, man.

01:23:02.000 When you realize you can't smell smoke, it's scary.

01:23:04.000 Yeah.

01:23:05.000 Because it's like, how are you going to know if your house is on fire?

01:23:07.000 I didn't want my wife to leave and go on a trip for a week because if something caught on fire... 1.00

01:23:13.000 What about cooking gas?

01:23:15.000 I couldn't smell that either.

01:23:16.000 I can't now.

01:23:16.000 I couldn't smell anything.

01:23:17.000 That's terrifying.

01:23:18.000 Coming home and you don't even know and your house is filled with gas.

01:23:21.000 Yeah.

01:23:21.000 Have you ever seen what happens to a house when they have a gas explosion?

01:23:25.000 Yeah.

01:23:25.000 Actually, somebody emailed me and said that's what they were afraid of in Minneapolis with all these riots that they broke out.

01:23:30.000 They were pretty sure some of the fires were going to hit the gas lines.

01:23:34.000 And it would have been like in Boston a couple years ago when the gas line was leaking in 50 houses.

01:23:38.000 I know a Boston firefighter who told me what it was like to be a firefighter in that mess.

01:23:42.000 He's driving to a call.

01:23:44.000 And then, you know, people run out in the street and stop, you know, stop the fire truck.

01:23:49.000 And they're like, you know, they're yelling, and there's a fire, we can't stop.

01:23:53.000 And they're like, there's a fire here. 0.98

01:23:54.000 And they're like, oh, crap. 0.81

01:23:56.000 And they start trying to do something about the fire there. 0.80

01:23:58.000 And then the house over there, boom, you know, flames everywhere, walls blow down and stuff.

01:24:03.000 And it was just like, at that point, they were like, is this a terrorist attack?

01:24:06.000 What's going on?

01:24:06.000 People are freaking out.

01:24:08.000 But that's what people in Minneapolis just lived through, apparently, too.

01:24:11.000 Yeah.

01:24:12.000 Like...

01:24:13.000 You can't have mayhem.

01:24:15.000 It's not good for sleep.

01:24:17.000 It's not good for anything.

01:24:19.000 I was going to say, it's Jerry Seinfeld.

01:24:22.000 It's not good for business.

01:24:23.000 It's not good for anybody.

01:24:25.000 For Seinfeld.

01:24:27.000 I saw a video once of a house that it was after the fact.

01:24:31.000 This house had a slow gas leak and then it blew up.

01:24:35.000 And I mean, there was nothing left.

01:24:38.000 It's bad.

01:24:39.000 It was crazy.

01:24:39.000 It was like it was splinters.

01:24:41.000 It's bad, yeah.

01:24:41.000 Yeah.

01:24:42.000 That's exactly right.

01:24:43.000 Splinters.

01:24:44.000 Yeah.

01:24:45.000 So yeah, it was a pretty scary town.

01:24:46.000 So you couldn't smell gas.

01:24:47.000 You couldn't smell gasoline if you're pumping gasoline.

01:24:50.000 You couldn't smell it.

01:24:51.000 Wow.

01:24:51.000 Oh, this house right here.

01:24:53.000 Watch this.

01:24:53.000 Holy cow.

01:24:57.000 Yeah.

01:24:58.000 Bro, do that again.

01:24:59.000 Rewind that again.

01:25:01.000 So this is someone else.

01:25:02.000 Let's see what happens.

01:25:04.000 Boom! 0.99

01:25:05.000 See, that's why stuff has to work.

01:25:07.000 Yeah.

01:25:08.000 Well, again, it goes back to what you're saying, how easy it is to tear something down, how hard it is to build it.

01:25:13.000 That's right.

01:25:14.000 All these people that are tearing down these businesses and looting, they haven't built anything.

01:25:18.000 I mean, I think about it all the time.

01:25:20.000 It's almost like this weird belief that everything just happens by magic or something.

01:25:24.000 You can just go fire everybody who knows what they're doing and replace them with people who don't know what they're doing and want to be just diversity.

01:25:30.000 And I'm not even going to say they're not competent, but they do want to focus on diversity or whatever the issue of the day is.

01:25:36.000 So you're going to fire...

01:25:38.000 This super competent guy and then replace him with somebody who at least is going to dedicate some of their time to diversity initiatives.

01:25:44.000 What's going to happen is eventually stuff becomes less competitive, stuff becomes less efficient.

01:25:50.000 I really feel it when I fly, man.

01:25:53.000 And it's not the thing you think.

01:25:54.000 I don't think, oh, the planes are going to start dropping out of the sky.

01:25:57.000 I started thinking about the air traffic control.

01:25:59.000 Like that's complicated, man.

01:26:01.000 And if you don't have people that are at the top of their game programming that stuff in those towers, looking at that stuff, but it's everything.

01:26:08.000 We actually have a society – when you have an advanced society like we have, you actually have to have people who know what's going on and who are focusing on the job.

01:26:17.000 To get it done, to build things.

01:26:20.000 And it can't all be – I mean of course we have to pay attention to the human resources issue.

01:26:26.000 But this stuff is all about turning everything into the human resources issue.

01:26:30.000 And then with like scholarship, I don't even know what to say because they're saying we need to do research justice and like – so that means take … Trevor Burrus Research justice?

01:26:39.000 That's what they call it.

01:26:39.000 So you have to take – yeah.

01:26:42.000 So you have to cite more black scholars and women scholars and indigenous scholars so you don't cite white people or men.

01:26:49.000 So you can even out their citation scores so they get more promotions.

01:26:52.000 And then you have to take academic departments and you have to start hiring more of – and I don't mean you have to hire identities.

01:27:01.000 You have to hire people who think that way because otherwise they don't qualify.

01:27:04.000 And then – You start getting rid of the people who don't think that way.

01:27:10.000 So you're actually concentrating even in like – I mean somebody just sent me something about chemistry.

01:27:15.000 The field of chemistry is like going like full woke.

01:27:18.000 And it's like, what the hell does that have to do with chemistry?

01:27:21.000 How can chemistry go woke?

01:27:23.000 Chemistry is so...

01:27:24.000 I mean, that is like one of the more solid disciplines.

01:27:28.000 You'll hardly believe it.

01:27:29.000 But the truth is that they...

01:27:31.000 The woke theory actually believes this.

01:27:34.000 It actually believes that science, reason, so on...

01:27:57.000 I'm a mathematician, and I read an article recently about how that has to happen in math.

01:28:01.000 So math, we have to get away from it, says, the idea that math is objective, that it tells you something objective about the world.

01:28:08.000 And we have to start opening our minds up to other types of mathematics that maybe see things differently and that we should teach that.

01:28:16.000 Who wrote that?

01:28:17.000 Oh, what's his name?

01:28:18.000 I don't know.

01:28:19.000 There's another one that's very similar that's by a Chinese scholar, Tianan or Antian.

01:28:27.000 I get it backwards sometimes.

01:28:28.000 That came out in January or something that was saying the same thing, that we need to start questioning whether there's objectivity in math.

01:28:35.000 We need to question what math is about.

01:28:37.000 And then I see this curriculum last fall.

01:28:39.000 It was put into the Seattle schools.

01:28:41.000 And you can look that up on Seattle's government education website.

01:28:45.000 We need to make math class be like asking kids, how have you seen math be used to uphold oppression?

01:28:57.000 How have you seen math be used to break down oppression?

01:29:00.000 And then how can we turn math to a more collectivist endeavor instead of individual endeavor?

01:29:07.000 And it's like this is what they're teaching in schools at this point.

01:29:09.000 So their belief is that objectivity, like actual knowledge, is not possible and that every culture has its own access to it.

01:29:19.000 And those cultures, like we talked about conflict theory, are in conflict with one another.

01:29:23.000 So science is something that was cooked up by white Western men, and it doesn't let other ways of knowing, they call it, in, specifically so that white Western men can keep the power of getting to define what's scientifically true and what's not. 0.56

01:29:37.000 Jesus Christ.

01:29:38.000 How do you argue against that?

01:29:40.000 It's so crazy that it's like there's no room for logic or reason. 0.54

01:29:46.000 It's worse than that because logic and reason become part of the white man's tools.

01:29:51.000 The master's tools, they call it.

01:29:53.000 Oh, the master.

01:29:54.000 Did you hear that in Texas, there's at least one real estate group that's no longer using the term master bedroom?

01:30:00.000 I was going to bring that up earlier when we were talking about how words have a trace. 0.99

01:30:04.000 And that's a key example because the trace is bullshit. 0.77

01:30:08.000 Do you know where the phrase master bedroom started? 0.99

01:30:10.000 No.

01:30:11.000 1926 Sears catalog.

01:30:13.000 Wow.

01:30:14.000 Slavery ended in 1863. 1926 Sears catalog.

01:30:19.000 It was never used with anything to do with slavery.

01:30:21.000 It's just that people imagine that it might have something to do with slavery because you can't touch the word math.

01:30:25.000 Or master, I'm sorry.

01:30:25.000 Right.

01:30:26.000 What about master locks?

01:30:27.000 Oh, it'll come to it.

01:30:28.000 It'll come to it.

01:30:29.000 They'll have to change.

01:30:30.000 All of the tech stuff is they've got like master-slave switches or whatever they call them.

01:30:35.000 And systems.

01:30:37.000 All that.

01:30:37.000 I mean, I'm getting emails from corporations.

01:30:39.000 Motherboards.

01:30:40.000 Oh, yeah.

01:30:40.000 All that stuff.

01:30:41.000 All that stuff.

01:30:42.000 It's all got to get changed. 1.00

01:30:44.000 Yeah, you can't have master and slave, you assholes. 1.00

01:30:47.000 And here's why. 1.00

01:30:48.000 Because they actually believe that language creates oppression.

01:30:54.000 That's when I said tearing down discursive monuments.

01:30:56.000 That's actually what the guy was talking about.

01:30:58.000 So if you change the language, like magic spells, then oppression will go away too.

01:31:04.000 If we have no politically incorrect language, oppression can't possibly happen.

01:31:08.000 That's literally some Orwell stuff, right?

01:31:10.000 The point of 1984 was like they made Newspeak so that people wouldn't be able to have thoughts.

01:31:16.000 Yes.

01:31:17.000 I mean, how brilliant was Orwell?

01:31:19.000 Pretty brilliant.

01:31:20.000 But amazing that he saw all this kind of coming, but maybe he didn't.

01:31:26.000 Maybe he just made it in the – like he took it to some ridiculous place that he never really thought people would go.

01:31:33.000 Right.

01:31:33.000 I mean there's been a bunch of people who did that, of course.

01:31:35.000 Aldous Huxley talked about it in Brave New World.

01:31:38.000 But very famously now people are getting aware of – was it Kurt Vonnegut that wrote Harrison Bergeron?

01:31:46.000 So this is a perfect equity society.

01:31:47.000 So people who were smarter had to like have headphones and played annoying sounds.

01:31:51.000 They couldn't think as good.

01:31:52.000 And if they were pretty, they had to wear like a mask so that they wouldn't be as attractive. 0.52

01:31:56.000 And they tried to make everybody perfectly equal.

01:31:58.000 And it's like almost prophetic, you know?

01:32:02.000 God.

01:32:03.000 That's the problem, right?

01:32:05.000 So this idea of like – the idea should be that we have equality.

01:32:10.000 Equality of outcome cannot be guaranteed but they want to force it.

01:32:13.000 But if you were going to guarantee equality of outcome, right, it would obviously be that you wanted to bring everybody up.

01:32:18.000 But they're content when that doesn't work to just chop people down and that's why it's screwed up.

01:32:24.000 Right?

01:32:25.000 Yeah.

01:32:25.000 So now we can't use science because science doesn't use emotions.

01:32:28.000 You can't use chemistry.

01:32:29.000 You can't use chemistry because it doesn't have enough gay people working and it was actually the real argument that I saw. 1.00

01:32:36.000 But how do you...

01:32:37.000 So is it your obligation to convince gay people that chemistry is interesting for them to pursue as a career? 0.79

01:32:44.000 It's, yeah, I guess.

01:32:45.000 Or do you have to prove?

01:32:47.000 Hiring quotas will come in.

01:32:49.000 But there's no obligation to prove that there's been some sort of suppression of gay people.

01:32:54.000 You could just say, like, as a fact, there's less gay people that are involved in this, so it must be suppressed.

01:32:59.000 Yeah, that's the systemic...

01:33:01.000 Racism idea or systemic homophobia here, that's the idea when they say systemic.

01:33:06.000 That's what they mean.

01:33:06.000 They say we're going to look at the end.

01:33:08.000 Is anything different?

01:33:09.000 Then it must have been discrimination somewhere in the system.

01:33:12.000 It's like when all the atheist movement stuff back in the day, they had the God of the gaps. 0.84

01:33:16.000 It's like where did life come from?

01:33:18.000 A religious person would be like, well, if you're an atheist, explain where life came from. 0.75

01:33:22.000 And if you don't know, then it must be God.

01:33:23.000 And now it's like if there's different outcomes, explain where it came from.

01:33:27.000 It must be racism or sexism.

01:33:30.000 What's interesting is that this equality language never makes its way into blue-collar jobs. 0.99

01:33:34.000 Like, nobody's clamoring for female garbage men or garbage folk. 1.00

01:33:38.000 It's only for high-status jobs, especially ones that work in cultural production, right? 0.98

01:33:44.000 So you have faith, you have education, you have journalism, you have media in general.

01:33:51.000 It's in scientists and so on, people who get to control knowledge, ideas, and so on.

01:33:55.000 Because again, they live in this world where they believe that if they can engineer how people think by what ideas are valid and invalid, then they can make their utopia.

01:34:07.000 So it's, I mean, like the idea of inclusion, right?

01:34:10.000 So inclusion, like that's good.

01:34:12.000 We want to include people.

01:34:13.000 We don't want people to feel like left out.

01:34:15.000 We don't want people to feel uncomfortable or like they can't be there.

01:34:18.000 Yeah.

01:34:18.000 But when you cook the books and decide that anything that disagrees with you makes you feel unwelcome, now all of a sudden nobody is allowed to disagree with you.

01:34:26.000 And that's actually what happens.

01:34:28.000 And then when you have this idea – you see this in these videos for these universities where you'll have some little student stand up and say, well, this center has too many white people in it taking up space and that makes us feel uncomfortable because we're used to having our space taken up and we have no space of our own.

01:34:43.000 And like the most egalitarian – the whole campus, you can be anywhere you want.

01:34:47.000 It even justifies segregation.

01:34:49.000 You can't have white people around black people too much because that makes them feel unsafe. 0.99

01:34:54.000 And then the galling part is that, you know what they call that? 0.98

01:34:57.000 Desegregation.

01:34:58.000 They call it desegregating the space.

01:35:01.000 Gaslighting!

01:35:02.000 It's so gaslighting.

01:35:03.000 God.

01:35:05.000 Anti-racism is like, let's focus on race all the time. 0.94

01:35:08.000 Let's read racism and do every interaction.

01:35:11.000 That's the anti-racist process.

01:35:13.000 It's backwards.

01:35:14.000 It's backwards land. 1.00

01:35:15.000 Well, that's one of the problems with some ideas that promote, air quotes, feminism. 1.00

01:35:21.000 Is that they treat women as if they can't see things the way that men do, so they need extra attention or extra help or extra assistance.

01:35:33.000 My favorite one with that kind of navel-gazing, critical approach...

01:35:38.000 So let me preface, just because we have to in this day and age.

01:35:41.000 James, do you support feminism?

01:35:43.000 Which one?

01:35:43.000 Same as Black Lives Matter, right?

01:35:45.000 Which one do you mean?

01:35:45.000 So that said...

01:35:48.000 One of my favorite patterns is a thing happens to everybody and then feminists think it's oppression against women. 1.00

01:35:54.000 Feminists blame patriarchy. 1.00

01:35:55.000 So it's like people interrupt.

01:35:57.000 And it's like people interrupt women.

01:36:00.000 And so that's patriarchy.

01:36:01.000 And it's like it actually happens to everybody, man.

01:36:03.000 My favorite is mansplaining.

01:36:05.000 Mansplaining?

01:36:05.000 Oh yeah, we're doing that now.

01:36:07.000 My favorite is manspreading, as you will know.

01:36:09.000 I'm famously a manspreader, and my profile on Twitter is manspreading to the maximum.

01:36:15.000 Is that what you're doing in your profile?

01:36:17.000 You're manspreading?

01:36:18.000 It's actually funny.

01:36:18.000 I was doing a thing in London last October.

01:36:21.000 We were doing some talks, and I had one video I did.

01:36:26.000 Where I didn't even realize it and I was manspreading like out of control.

01:36:29.000 I mean it was like embarrassingly bad.

01:36:31.000 I looked at it the first time I saw the video and I'm like...

01:36:32.000 Right, but manspreading only matters if you're on a subway or a bus and someone's next to you and you're taking up too much...

01:36:37.000 That's the main thing.

01:36:38.000 But that's what the problem is with it.

01:36:40.000 Right.

01:36:40.000 But they see the action at all.

01:36:42.000 Like you got to train it out of people.

01:36:44.000 So anyway, in London I was very...

01:36:46.000 I was actually distractedly mindful not to manspread.

01:36:49.000 And so I was telling the story to the crowd and I manspread to demonstrate what I meant by manspreading.

01:36:54.000 I just did it again.

01:36:55.000 And somebody snapped a picture of it while I was doing it and sent it to me.

01:36:59.000 And I'm like, that's my profile picture.

01:37:00.000 So I'm like in, you know, like a jacket and a tie and I'm manspreading, like laughing or whatever.

01:37:05.000 I feel like I read this.

01:37:07.000 I don't know if I did or not.

01:37:08.000 That men, they're natural.

01:37:11.000 The way their legs sit in their hips, it's natural for their legs to splay out.

01:37:17.000 Yeah.

01:37:17.000 Whereas with women, their hips are built differently.

01:37:20.000 That's probably true.

01:37:22.000 Can you find that out? 0.99

01:37:23.000 We also have testicles. 0.99

01:37:24.000 I don't know how you would Google that. 0.99

01:37:25.000 Yeah, but...

01:37:26.000 I mean, I think you do.

01:37:27.000 I know I do.

01:37:27.000 I do.

01:37:28.000 Okay.

01:37:28.000 I definitely do.

01:37:29.000 Just checking.

01:37:29.000 How dare you.

01:37:30.000 But you can't...

01:37:31.000 I'd rather stand up.

01:37:33.000 I mean, if I'm jamming people in like that, I don't mind standing.

01:37:36.000 Yeah, totally.

01:37:37.000 I hear you.

01:37:37.000 Yeah, unless it's a long-ass flight or a long-ass train ride, but I can keep my legs together.

01:37:45.000 No, I hear you.

01:37:46.000 I'm totally with you.

01:37:47.000 But I think it's a natural thing if you sit for your legs to spread out.

01:37:50.000 I mean, you're fit.

01:37:51.000 I'm fit.

01:37:52.000 I actually have bizarrely large legs, and so it's actually very difficult for me to squeeze my legs together.

01:37:57.000 Here it goes.

01:37:57.000 The overall width of the pelvis is relatively greater in females, and the angle of the femoral neck is more acute.

01:38:04.000 That's right.

01:38:04.000 These factors could play a role in making a position of sitting with the knees close together less comfortable in men.

01:38:10.000 Aha, you fucks. 1.00

01:38:12.000 I suspect most men would suggest the reason for adopting the more spread posture in sitting would be the avoidance of testicular compression from the thigh muscles. 0.99

01:38:22.000 The pelvic rotation goes some way to improve compression in both aspects.

01:38:27.000 It's funny the way they say it that way.

01:38:29.000 That's right. 0.76

01:38:29.000 They have to say testicular compression. 0.76

01:38:31.000 Well, that's because it's from masculinist science.

01:38:33.000 It's masculinist white western science making this claim. 0.98

01:38:37.000 And it's from the independent.

01:38:38.000 Yeah.

01:38:39.000 But when you have big legs, man, it's like...

01:38:41.000 Yes.

01:38:41.000 It's like, you know, if I know I'm going to have to walk a long distance, I have to wear the right underwear, I'm going to get chafed on my thighs.

01:38:47.000 Yes, me too.

01:38:47.000 You have big thighs.

01:38:48.000 So there's a science behind man's brain. 0.78

01:38:50.000 It's like I need those Chuck Norris drop crotch jeans that he had when he used his kicks.

01:38:55.000 Dude, those are the best.

01:38:55.000 Do you remember those?

01:38:56.000 I had a pair of those.

01:38:57.000 Hell yeah.

01:38:58.000 Chuck Norris action jeans.

01:38:59.000 Action jeans, that's right.

01:39:00.000 Yes, I had those.

01:39:01.000 That's right.

01:39:02.000 Yeah.

01:39:02.000 Back when you were doing karate, you know, you were doing Taekwondo, right?

01:39:05.000 Yeah.

01:39:05.000 I did, like, sport karate back then.

01:39:07.000 Yeah, those were the pants to have back then.

01:39:10.000 That's right.

01:39:10.000 Everybody had that stuff.

01:39:13.000 Yeah, the people with large thighs, man, that's what boxer briefs were invented for. 0.99

01:39:17.000 That's right.

01:39:18.000 I can't wear regular shorts.

01:39:21.000 Like, if I just wear shorts and boxer briefs, it'll chew my legs up if I work out.

01:39:25.000 It kills me, yeah.

01:39:27.000 Yeah, and large ladies have that issue, too. 1.00

01:39:29.000 Right.

01:39:29.000 They're overweight.

01:39:30.000 And fat studies would say that that is a problem of body blueprinting and that it's actually a sign that fat phobic society hasn't designed all clothing around that problem. 0.79

01:39:39.000 They didn't design clothing with fat in mind.

01:39:41.000 That was another one of my favorite papers he did was fat bodybuilding.

01:39:44.000 That's what I was, yeah.

01:39:44.000 Yeah, fat bodybuilding.

01:39:46.000 Fat bodybuilding.

01:39:47.000 So it turns out Peter has a friend named Richard Baldwin and you should pull Richard Baldwin up.

01:39:54.000 Richard Baldwin is a real professional bodybuilder.

01:39:56.000 He was like, what was it, Mr. Olympia 1978 or something, right?

01:40:00.000 And he's also a history professor.

01:40:02.000 So the dude's jacked.

01:40:04.000 Even 70-something, he's jacked.

01:40:05.000 And so he said we could use his identity to do our papers.

01:40:12.000 That's him in the 70s?

01:40:14.000 Yeah.

01:40:15.000 Is that him now?

01:40:17.000 He's got a woman in a black t-shirt where it's like he's 71 years old and it's just insane. 0.98

01:40:23.000 That's back in the day.

01:40:25.000 Yeah, the one where he's doing the most muscular pose?

01:40:28.000 Right there.

01:40:28.000 Bam.

01:40:30.000 He's still like that.

01:40:32.000 Jesus Christ.

01:40:33.000 So he let us use his identity.

01:40:37.000 That's him older.

01:40:39.000 He's still jacked.

01:40:40.000 Wow.

01:40:40.000 He's 65 there.

01:40:42.000 He's fit.

01:40:43.000 So we were like, we got to write bodybuilding-themed papers because we have a bodybuilder.

01:40:47.000 And so we claim that his, there it is, the black one, related images down there is where he's in the black t-shirt.

01:40:54.000 I actually photoshopped a copy of that specific image and put fat bodybuilder on the t-shirt.

01:41:00.000 I used to have that picture.

01:41:02.000 That's him, like when he was letting us use his identity.

01:41:06.000 So there he's in his 70s.

01:41:07.000 I think he's like 71 there.

01:41:08.000 That's insane.

01:41:09.000 Yeah, look at those arms. 0.68

01:41:10.000 Wow.

01:41:11.000 And yeah, so we wrote this paper, Fat Bodybuilding, saying that bodybuilders are abnormally large.

01:41:18.000 Fat people are abnormally large.

01:41:19.000 Muscle and fat are just two types of tissue, and it's only fatphobic science that distinguishes their worth.

01:41:25.000 And it's a fatphobic society that says one means more than the other.

01:41:28.000 So we even had lines like, you know, you have to build a political There's some quote.

01:41:34.000 It wasn't our line.

01:41:35.000 We quoted somebody that says, it takes time to build a fat body.

01:41:38.000 It takes even more time to build a politicized fat body.

01:41:41.000 So that was the theme of the paper.

01:41:42.000 And so we said that there should be...

01:41:44.000 In fact, that professional bodybuilding as a sport needs to add another category.

01:41:48.000 There are four categories for each of men and women that they compete in.

01:41:52.000 Yeah, apparently.

01:41:52.000 Something like bikini and I don't know what they are.

01:41:55.000 Whatever they are.

01:41:55.000 Yeah, something.

01:41:56.000 There are four.

01:41:57.000 And I don't remember what they are.

01:41:58.000 But...

01:42:00.000 They need to add a fifth one in for fat bodybuilding where people of any body shape and size can come in and it can't be competitive because that would be fat shaming. 0.93

01:42:08.000 And so it has to be just a political performative display rooted in Judith Butler's politics of parody.

01:42:15.000 Oh my god.

01:42:16.000 Which we got that idea from reading an actual fat scholar, maybe the leading fat scholar, Charlotte Cooper. 1.00

01:42:21.000 And Charlotte Cooper is just like totally a nut job activist in the UK, but they hate the Olympics as you might imagine. 1.00

01:42:28.000 It's the maximally fat-phobic environment.

01:42:31.000 Except, is sumo in the Olympics?

01:42:33.000 Is it?

01:42:34.000 I think it is.

01:42:36.000 Oh, no.

01:42:37.000 But, they protested the 2000, and she's in London, so they protested the 2012 games, summer games, and what they did is they held in a park, like, Fattylympics is what they literally called it.

01:42:50.000 They literally called it that. 0.60

01:42:51.000 And it was like them playing Dizzy Bat and like yelling about and holding up protest signs about how the Olympics sucks. 0.97

01:42:58.000 And so we're like, what in the hell is this?

01:43:00.000 And so then we decided to write this fat bodybuilding paper based off of the idea of politics of parody, of like making a joke out of the thing.

01:43:07.000 So we're going to make a joke out of bodybuilding.

01:43:09.000 And we said that competitors can wear the fat-tion, that's their word, not ours, of their choice, which is clothing designed for fat people.

01:43:16.000 Fat-tion of the choice. 0.76

01:43:18.000 So it's really hard, it's really hard to talk about, to explain, to criticize the fat study stuff without, like, it's just so preposterous.

01:43:28.000 How do you walk the line of, like, tipping them off? 0.98

01:43:33.000 Like, because it seems like some of your stuff is so loony that I just, like, how do they not know they're being fucked with? 0.99

01:43:40.000 Because they're too serious about that. 0.99

01:43:41.000 They take themselves too seriously.

01:43:42.000 So I'll give you an example with that exact paper, right?

01:43:46.000 At the end, Pete, you know, is a big sci-fi guy.

01:43:49.000 So he's all into Star Trek.

01:43:50.000 So we called the last section was fat bodybuilding, the final frontier for fat.

01:43:55.000 They went berserk about this.

01:43:57.000 They were like, you cannot call it that for two reasons.

01:44:00.000 You can't use the word final because it would imply there is an end to fat activism which can never end.

01:44:05.000 Oh my god!

01:44:06.000 And you can't use the word frontier because it reminds you of genocides.

01:44:10.000 The frontier.

01:44:11.000 Like the frontier of the American West?

01:44:13.000 It said it evokes imagery of the American West.

01:44:16.000 Native American genocide?

01:44:17.000 Oh, my God.

01:44:17.000 So you can't say the final frontier because frontier the word is poisoned.

01:44:21.000 Oh, my God.

01:44:22.000 The final frontier.

01:44:23.000 But that's Star Trek.

01:44:24.000 I know.

01:44:25.000 How are you doing that? 0.95

01:44:27.000 They're so, like, I mean, smelling their own farts, man. 0.67

01:44:30.000 They're smelling their own farts all day long. 0.99

01:44:33.000 It's so freaking bad. 0.98

01:44:35.000 I can't.

01:44:37.000 As you're saying this, I know you're telling the truth, but I can't imagine that this is literally commonplace.

01:44:43.000 I mean, it's so hard not to laugh.

01:44:47.000 So we talked about health at every size.

01:44:49.000 Do you know who made up health at every size?

01:44:50.000 Who?

01:44:51.000 Linda Bacon.

01:44:52.000 That's her name? 0.70

01:44:54.000 She's not real.

01:44:55.000 She's real.

01:44:56.000 It's like, it's just her name.

01:44:59.000 It just happens to be.

01:45:00.000 That's so crazy, though.

01:45:01.000 What a great name. 1.00

01:45:02.000 It just shows you that the world, like when Andrew Wiener kept sending his dick to girls. 1.00

01:45:06.000 Oh, I know. 1.00

01:45:07.000 It's like, come on, man.

01:45:08.000 This is too on the nose.

01:45:09.000 Oh, Jesus.

01:45:10.000 When I was in grad school, actually, we had to learn about, so there's this thing in probability theory.

01:45:14.000 It's named after a mathematician whose last name was Wiener.

01:45:17.000 And so it's actually called the Wiener Measure.

01:45:19.000 And so we had this Chinese teacher, he was talking about the wiener measure, and we're all laughing, and he had no idea why we were laughing, because his English wasn't great. 0.50

01:45:27.000 Oh, it was so awkward.

01:45:28.000 Oh, boy.

01:45:29.000 But no, it's really weird when stuff like that happens, you know.

01:45:31.000 So you have the fat scholar, yeah, Linda Bacon. 1.00

01:45:34.000 Lindo.

01:45:35.000 Formerly Linda.

01:45:36.000 Oh, trans. 1.00

01:45:37.000 Went trans. 0.94

01:45:38.000 She's trans now.

01:45:38.000 Lindo.

01:45:40.000 See, health at every size.

01:45:42.000 Oh, my God.

01:45:42.000 So she wasn't happy enough with body positivity.

01:45:45.000 She had to go trans. 0.96

01:45:46.000 It became real popular.

01:45:47.000 Looks like she lost the weight, too.

01:45:50.000 That's bad.

01:45:51.000 Jesus Christ.

01:45:52.000 Yeah, why'd she lose the weight? 1.00

01:45:53.000 I don't know, but we could wreck her career now. 1.00

01:45:54.000 Every size.

01:45:55.000 Body positivity at every size.

01:45:56.000 Body liberation advocate.

01:45:59.000 Yeah, liberation is what this is actually the thing.

01:46:01.000 How about this?

01:46:01.000 Speaker, author, and scientist.

01:46:05.000 I'm gonna call shenanigans on that last part.

01:46:07.000 She's got a PhD.

01:46:09.000 Yeah.

01:46:10.000 What's the PhD in?

01:46:11.000 I don't know, but it's not math.

01:46:16.000 Linda.

01:46:17.000 I didn't mean to deadname her.

01:46:18.000 I didn't know it had changed.

01:46:19.000 Well, you didn't mean it.

01:46:21.000 I could be ruined for that.

01:46:23.000 Deadnaming her right in the thing says formerly Linda. 1.00

01:46:25.000 It does.

01:46:26.000 They deadnamed her.

01:46:28.000 Technically.

01:46:29.000 In the book.

01:46:30.000 Technically, I think we have to update her book now.

01:46:32.000 Yeah.

01:46:33.000 Which one is it?

01:46:35.000 It says Lindo?

01:46:37.000 Linda?

01:46:38.000 What is that?

01:46:38.000 Is that an article?

01:46:40.000 That's insane.

01:46:41.000 My name, my gender.

01:46:43.000 Oh, there you go.

01:46:44.000 Yeah, see?

01:46:46.000 So she, like, formerly Linda, is a part of her website.

01:46:52.000 LindoBacon.com.

01:46:53.000 Okay, so this is straight out of Queer Theory. 0.69

01:46:55.000 So Queer Theory actually says that it's politically actionable to make things confusing on purpose, so it doesn't make sense.

01:47:00.000 Oh, really?

01:47:01.000 I mean, yeah.

01:47:02.000 It's like, literally, if I open the book, I can quote it.

01:47:06.000 They say that it's politically actionable to use intentional confusion, like to put contradictions, and in particular, Yves Kovsoski Sedgwick.

01:47:18.000 Hold up.

01:47:19.000 Look at how this starts off.

01:47:21.000 It's hard to be yourself and feel belonging in a culture that is hostile to your existence.

01:47:27.000 But first of all, feel belonging.

01:47:31.000 It's a very strange way to put it.

01:47:33.000 It's hard to be yourself and feel belonging that you belong, I guess, in a culture that is hostile to your existence.

01:47:41.000 Which...

01:47:42.000 Boy, that's...

01:47:43.000 That's a loaded sentence, isn't it?

01:47:45.000 Yes.

01:47:45.000 Oh my God, so much.

01:47:47.000 Yeah.

01:47:48.000 So, I mean, let's see.

01:47:51.000 There's probably some really good stuff.

01:47:52.000 Flourish in a welcoming world, the welcoming part.

01:47:54.000 That's where I said they twist this stuff and it turned into something crazy.

01:48:00.000 So you get this real sense, though, in fat studies and in disability studies that they want to be coddled.

01:48:07.000 How is she doing fat studies when she's all skinny now? 1.00

01:48:11.000 He now.

01:48:12.000 Yeah, he.

01:48:12.000 That's problematic.

01:48:15.000 But that's a good thing it's every size.

01:48:18.000 Dr. Bacon's mission to galvanize a body positivity movement which celebrates the influence of our multiple intersecting identities.

01:48:30.000 To provide the critical thought, inspiring vision, and practical strategies you need to celebrate.

01:48:36.000 I feel like we're making fun of this person.

01:48:38.000 I told you, but that word critical, that doesn't mean critical thinking.

01:48:43.000 That means complaining about in a specific way to achieve liberation.

01:48:47.000 And liberation is the thing.

01:48:48.000 That's the critical theory of the Frankfurt School that we were talking about all along.

01:48:51.000 So what is this person's – what was the issue that you had with what they were teaching?

01:48:57.000 Well, I mean this person is like the body positivity person.

01:49:01.000 So the body positivity movement – I was actually just bringing up the person's name being Bacon and Fat Studies is kind of funny, but that's rude of me.

01:49:12.000 But it's crazy now that it's not...

01:49:14.000 But the point is that the body positivity movement is why they deny...

01:49:20.000 Science, right?

01:49:21.000 So if like a doctor says, we're worried about your weight, you know, you need to do something about it, that actually is not body positivity anymore.

01:49:29.000 That's now telling them that they are wrong for who they are.

01:49:34.000 So there's this like coddling aspect to it.

01:49:36.000 And then this has actually moved into even more, they go even further, like people with letters, I don't need a person with letters after my name to tell me who I am.

01:49:43.000 So with like mental illness, a lot of them self-diagnose and they say that somebody with letters after their name shouldn't determine who they are.

01:49:56.000 There's this woman that we talk about in the book, Linda XY Brown, I'm sure that's her real initials.

01:50:01.000 Like, she didn't cook that up. 1.00

01:50:03.000 She's got like 12 of the things, but she self-diagnosed herself as autistic.

01:50:07.000 And she has this thing, we quoted it in here, and she says that, I guess there's a stim, they call them, for autistic people called flapping, and she doesn't flap.

01:50:17.000 Like, it's not one of the things, because she maybe isn't even autistic, who knows, because she won't get diagnosed.

01:50:22.000 And then when she says she's in public, she flaps on purpose. 0.62

01:50:26.000 Like, she acts it.

01:50:27.000 She pretends it so that people will recognize her as autistic.

01:50:32.000 Because the identity is what's so important because the identity becomes a politics.

01:50:35.000 Oh, my goodness.

01:50:37.000 Oh, my goodness. 0.84

01:50:38.000 I just read the whole freaking book again yesterday.

01:50:40.000 But the thing about body positivity is I want people to feel good.

01:50:45.000 I do want them to feel good, but I also want them to be...

01:50:49.000 Actually aware of what the consequences of eating bad food is.

01:50:54.000 If you care about someone, you want them to know what the consequences of their actions.

01:50:59.000 It's one of the weird addictions.

01:51:01.000 Food addictions is one of the weird addictions where you're supposed to not judge the person by it, and you're also supposed to not offer up any suggestions on how they can fix that, because Then you are not just judging that person,

01:51:19.000 you're condemning them and their choices.

01:51:22.000 But it is an addiction.

01:51:24.000 Right.

01:51:24.000 And there's an issue because wellness means more than your feelings.

01:51:28.000 Yes.

01:51:28.000 And it's actually really...

01:51:31.000 I mean, it's like, you know, with addiction medicine, they talk about enablers, right?

01:51:36.000 But also with addiction, they talk about hitting rock bottom.

01:51:39.000 What does that mean?

01:51:40.000 You have to get to a point where you're so sick of the way you're living that you will make the necessary adjustments to become a healthier person.

01:51:50.000 Whether it's gambling, where you lose all your money, or drug addiction, where you almost overdose and die.

01:51:56.000 Right, exactly.

01:51:57.000 Yeah, that's rock bottom. 0.72

01:51:58.000 And for a fat person, it's really got to be that.

01:52:01.000 It's going to be like a heart attack scare or something.

01:52:04.000 Right, or a doctor telling you, hey, you've got a problem with your weight.

01:52:08.000 It should be.

01:52:08.000 Yes.

01:52:09.000 And then that's not allowed.

01:52:10.000 Like right here, she actually says...

01:52:14.000 Once I started to get into the territory of diagnosis, once I started playing around with the problem of diagnostic thinking, when it is only left to trained diagnosticians, that allowed me to challenge how all of us must contend with thinking diagnostically.

01:52:28.000 And so it says right before that, in fact, I don't believe in giving power to the medical-industrial complex and its monopoly over getting to define and determine who counts and who does not count as autistic.

01:52:41.000 Like, doctors aren't allowed.

01:52:43.000 And then she's right here writing...

01:52:44.000 How do they decide whether or not someone's autistic?

01:52:46.000 It's not like...

01:52:47.000 I have no idea.

01:52:48.000 You could check to see if someone's diabetic.

01:52:50.000 I have no idea what the process is.

01:52:52.000 But I assume that the people who are the doctors that study it do know.

01:52:56.000 It happens if they didn't and we're finding this out.

01:52:58.000 Oh no.

01:53:00.000 But yeah, here's the flapping thing, right?

01:53:01.000 So what is flapping exactly?

01:53:02.000 I don't know.

01:53:04.000 I'm assuming it's like...

01:53:05.000 Actually moving in a flappy way?

01:53:07.000 Yeah, flapping your arms.

01:53:08.000 Like a penguin?

01:53:08.000 Maybe, yeah.

01:53:09.000 Here we go. 1.00

01:53:10.000 Jamie's on the fucking ball as always. 0.99

01:53:12.000 When a person with autism engages in self-stimulatory behaviors such as rocking, pacing, aligning, or spinning objects, or hand flapping, people around him or her, you asshole, may be confused, offended, or even frightened, also known as stimming. 0.99

01:53:29.000 These behaviors are often characterized by rigid, repetitive movements and or vocal sounds. 0.84

01:53:35.000 Right.

01:53:36.000 So Lydia X.Y. Brown writes, I, as an autistic person who doesn't instinctually or innately flap my hands or arms, it was never a stem that I developed independently.

01:53:45.000 Will deliberately and frequently choose to flap, especially in public, in order to call attention to myself so that other people, whether autistic or not, might identify me as autistic.

01:53:53.000 And it's like this stuff is – that's a scholar!

01:53:59.000 I mean, we should actually talk about freaking autoethnography, man.

01:54:02.000 It's a diary entry that pretends to be sociology.

01:54:07.000 It's so strange.

01:54:10.000 It's...

01:54:10.000 Okay, I get it.

01:54:12.000 Okay, okay.

01:54:14.000 So, I mean...

01:54:16.000 How is that going to help disabled people? 0.85

01:54:19.000 It's not.

01:54:20.000 What is disability studies for?

01:54:22.000 Right.

01:54:22.000 How is that going to help anybody?

01:54:24.000 Also, acting.

01:54:26.000 What if I decided I self-diagnosed myself, even though I'm a comedian, I say a lot of words I probably shouldn't say in polite company, but I say them all the time.

01:54:36.000 What if I self-diagnosed myself as having Tourette's? 0.99

01:54:39.000 And so that when I'm out in public, I just go, cunt! 1.00

01:54:41.000 Cunt! 1.00

01:54:42.000 And I just, like, force myself to do it so that people recognize that I have Tourette's. 0.99

01:54:48.000 Well, you know, they would accuse you of being it.

01:54:50.000 Is that a South Park episode?

01:54:52.000 I think it is.

01:54:54.000 It must be.

01:54:56.000 Until they, like, put him in a hospital or something.

01:54:57.000 If you could come up with a funny premise, South Park has an episode on it.

01:55:02.000 I wonder what would happen, actually.

01:55:03.000 I mean, I'm pretty good at figuring out what theory would do if somebody genuinely did have Tourette's and then part of their tick worked out to be that they said racial slurs.

01:55:11.000 Oh, my God.

01:55:13.000 Is that like subconscious racism baked into them?

01:55:16.000 Like, what would happen?

01:55:17.000 I don't actually know what would happen in that case.

01:55:19.000 Jesus Christ.

01:55:20.000 Yeah, it'd be baked in systemic racism.

01:55:22.000 There's like no resolution.

01:55:24.000 Cartman's Tourette's.

01:55:25.000 Cartman pretends to have Tourette's Syndrome so that he can say whatever he wants without getting in trouble.

01:55:30.000 I think I remember this now.

01:55:32.000 It eventually leads to trouble and he ends up saying things he would never say.

01:55:38.000 The episode's title is a play on the title of Jean-Luc Godard's 1963 film, Le Petit Soldat.

01:55:46.000 That's funny.

01:55:47.000 Is that soldat or soldat?

01:55:49.000 I don't speak French.

01:55:50.000 I don't even know.

01:55:52.000 I remembered something of this the other day.

01:55:53.000 Dude, that was 2007!

01:55:56.000 Dude, yeah.

01:55:56.000 God, they're so ahead of the curve.

01:55:58.000 They were so tapped into this stuff.

01:56:00.000 Well, if anybody is going to attack woke culture successfully, it will be South Park. 0.92

01:56:06.000 It will be comedians in general.

01:56:07.000 Yes, but South Park in particular, because they have these characters that they could speak through, and these characters don't really resemble people, so you can murder them, you can kill them off every episode, like Kenny, and they have this amazing leeway.

01:56:22.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:56:23.000 I mean, that's what it's gonna have to be.

01:56:25.000 It's gonna have to be.

01:56:26.000 I mean, so that's what I try to do.

01:56:27.000 I'm trying to lay down the tracks so that people feel like they can actually get into this.

01:56:32.000 Well, I think through what you and Peter and Helen have done through these hoax studies, you've at least highlighted to many people that not only is this a real problem, but it's really hilarious how far they're willing to go And accepts what kind of nonsense you guys are pushing.

01:56:53.000 Exactly.

01:56:53.000 And like now it's like taking over everything.

01:56:56.000 So like, you know, what do you do?

01:57:00.000 What do you do?

01:57:01.000 Because it seems like, is there going to be a peak and we're going to hit peak woke and it's going to slide to normalcy?

01:57:08.000 I don't know societally, but I actually wrote an article I put on New Discourses the other day that I said that we – people need to be having conversations right now because I'm like kind of getting disowned by friends and family a little bit.

01:57:20.000 And the question that I think people need to be asking is where's the line?

01:57:24.000 Like because the way people reason is that they'll let themselves slide and then justify it.

01:57:28.000 They call it post-hoc rationalization.

01:57:30.000 That's John Height's term.

01:57:32.000 Yeah.

01:57:42.000 I've already defended riots, but let's say that they fire all of the department heads or whatever at a university or they fire this or they burn that down or whatever it is.

01:57:53.000 Everybody should have a line that says, okay, wait, this is too far.

01:57:56.000 And I think individuals need to start figuring out what theirs were so they can tell the story if they've already had it, like you and I have already had that.

01:58:04.000 And then other people who haven't, like we need to be talking to our friends and say, you know, I get that you think the woke movement's important and that it's doing good things.

01:58:12.000 And, you know, there's some crazy stuff going on and I'm stressed about it.

01:58:15.000 Where do you feel like the line is?

01:58:17.000 Where do you draw the line and say it's gone too far?

01:58:19.000 And you don't even – it's not about getting the answer.

01:58:21.000 It's actually about getting them to think about it.

01:58:23.000 What's happened so quickly.

01:58:26.000 Very quickly.

01:58:26.000 And the changes are so radical in what's acceptable and not acceptable and what people are willing to do to people that don't toe the line.

01:58:34.000 It's insane.

01:58:36.000 I mean, utter destruction of life.

01:58:38.000 And people who...

01:58:39.000 I mean, you're seeing immigrant stories.

01:58:41.000 I'm getting emails from people whose marriages, like, interracial marriages are breaking up.

01:58:45.000 And they're like, how do I save my husband?

01:58:47.000 Well, the all lives matter firing thing is just one of the craziest ones.

01:58:52.000 Like, you can't say all...

01:58:54.000 Like, if someone says, what do you feel about Black Lives Matter?

01:58:57.000 And then you say, all lives matter, you get fired from your job!

01:59:02.000 Yep, but...

01:59:03.000 You know, it's one of those things where you're being...

01:59:07.000 Like, obviously, all lives matter.

01:59:11.000 Obviously.

01:59:12.000 Right.

01:59:12.000 But also, obviously, Black Lives Matter.

01:59:14.000 So why are you so compelled to follow the narrative that if you say something that's obviously true, instead of following the narrative, you get fired?

01:59:25.000 So because of that, people are willfully self-censoring and they're changing their perspective on things because they don't want to be canceled and they don't want to be fired.

01:59:36.000 Right.

01:59:36.000 So the question for me is, like, how much of that do you have to see before you start saying something has gone awry?

01:59:42.000 Yeah.

01:59:43.000 Something's off.

01:59:43.000 This isn't normal.

01:59:45.000 Right.

01:59:45.000 This isn't how we do business, you know.

01:59:48.000 I keep finding myself saying, you know, I'm on the left, really.

01:59:53.000 I don't really get on with conservative stuff, and I'm not really, like, patriotic, like, you know, gets.

02:00:00.000 And I keep saying to myself, like, this is the United States of America.

02:00:03.000 Why is this happening here?

02:00:04.000 Right.

02:00:05.000 It's happening everywhere, though.

02:00:06.000 Well, it is.

02:00:07.000 At least it speaks English and, I think, Spanish now.

02:00:10.000 Yeah?

02:00:11.000 Yeah.

02:00:12.000 Where does this go?

02:00:14.000 You're a smart guy.

02:00:15.000 Where does this go?

02:00:16.000 Do the math.

02:00:17.000 We're in a highly nonlinear situation.

02:00:19.000 That's my math statement.

02:00:20.000 So it's not actually clear because it depends on a lot of factors.

02:00:22.000 Like, if we have another police brutality incident against black people in the near term, that's going to be a mess. 0.66

02:00:30.000 It's going to be a huge mess. 0.96

02:00:32.000 It's so hard to tell because, like, Trump is the irritant that's driving – like Trump derangement thing is part of what's happening.

02:00:40.000 Like properly, people are actually driven crazy by this.

02:00:43.000 So what happens with the election tells us a lot.

02:00:47.000 I tend to be optimistic in the sense that this movement is so internally contradictory.

02:00:54.000 So you got like – I mentioned the trans and queer stuff that's on the Black Lives Matter official about page.

02:00:59.000 So there's another hashtag that's trans – Black Trans Lives Matter.

02:01:04.000 And so it's like, is there an all black lives matter? 1.00

02:01:07.000 You know, is that okay to say?

02:01:10.000 Because it's the same dynamic, but all of a sudden you can't say all lives matter and answer to black lives matter. 0.94

02:01:14.000 But can you say all black lives matter and answer to black trans lives matter? 0.99

02:01:17.000 And so it's like it's internally contradictory, right?

02:01:20.000 And then people are actually kind of catching on that something is not fair. 1.00

02:01:24.000 Like the white fragility game is just bullshit. 0.99

02:01:26.000 You just can't get around it. 1.00

02:01:27.000 The systemic thing is something feels unfair about it.

02:01:32.000 And Everybody being complicit in racism seems a bit much.

02:01:37.000 So there's all these kind of internal contradictions and there's going to be these inside fights.

02:01:41.000 And so it's hard to say that it's going to take over.

02:01:43.000 On the other hand, we're in the closest thing that we've seen in a long time to the Chinese Cultural Revolution.

02:01:51.000 But they did struggle sessions.

02:01:52.000 That's these cancel sessions.

02:01:53.000 They made people do tearful apologies and make these – they weren't videos.

02:01:56.000 It was like China in the 60s. 0.77

02:01:57.000 But they put them on public – on a stool in public, yelled at them and humiliated them and made them wear a hat with – like a dunce hat or whatever.

02:02:05.000 And that's what these cancel sessions – they're actually the same thing as struggle sessions.

02:02:10.000 They're just happening on social media.

02:02:12.000 It's also signaling to all the other people that haven't been in trouble that this will happen to you if you do not comply.

02:02:31.000 It's so psychologically damaging that it might actually be worse than death.

02:02:35.000 And so that's what people are faced with and they're so afraid of it, which is so bad because it's just so transparently bogus and it can't defend itself.

02:02:43.000 All it does is call names.

02:02:46.000 So it's hard to say where it will go.

02:02:48.000 I actually think it will – my prognosis is that it will break itself.

02:02:55.000 Break itself.

02:02:55.000 It will just – the backlash to it, which can be reasonable and liberal, people are going to wake up and they're going to have peak woke and they're not going to have more woke.

02:03:04.000 And it will chew itself up from the inside with these fights between us.

02:03:08.000 Here's an example of a fight.

02:03:10.000 Here's an example of a fight.

02:03:11.000 1619 Project from The New York Times.

02:03:13.000 Nicole Hannah-Jones writes this kind of fake history of the United States saying that we're all about slavery. 1.00

02:03:19.000 Slavery is everything to do with the United States in every regard from the beginning and still – And then what are they doing now, right?

02:03:26.000 So there's this huge intense fight between the black population and the indigenous population for most racially oppressed.

02:03:32.000 And they both have a pretty good claim on it, right?

02:03:34.000 So that genocide thing was pretty big.

02:03:38.000 And then slavery was pretty big.

02:03:40.000 And it's complicated.

02:03:42.000 So they're fighting for status.

02:03:44.000 So you had the indigenous side of that. 0.85

02:03:47.000 Assert that black people in North America are settlers of color, which is a problem. 0.82

02:03:52.000 And then you've had Nicole Hannah-Jones try to point out that lots of Native Americans held black slaves. 0.99

02:03:57.000 So they were slave owners, which is a problem.

02:03:59.000 So they're fighting over that infighting for status, for the ultimate victim status.

02:04:04.000 And then they've got like that trans thing's coming. 1.00

02:04:06.000 I saw a video of some black woman the other day yelling about what is this black power fist on the trans flag about? 0.94

02:04:12.000 That's not, you know... 0.93

02:04:13.000 That's not what this is supposed to be. 0.98

02:04:14.000 Black people is not supposed to be. 1.00

02:04:15.000 White people, trans white people putting their stuff. 0.99

02:04:17.000 I thought it was really clever that trans people jumped in and had that Black Trans Lives Matter rally. 0.81

02:04:24.000 Right, right.

02:04:24.000 Because it was like, you might be the only people that can get away with this right now.

02:04:28.000 That's the thing.

02:04:29.000 No one else can hop in on that, but Black Trans Lives Matter.

02:04:33.000 And there was like hundreds of thousands of people because everybody felt like you had to just keep protesting.

02:04:39.000 Right.

02:04:39.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:04:40.000 So I think it's going to chew itself up inside, but everything that took over is going with it.

02:04:45.000 I don't know how long it's going to take the university to not be kind of like, I don't know about that anymore.

02:04:50.000 Yeah, when do they say anything like that, particularly if they get so much massive pushback from the people that they're teaching?

02:04:57.000 Right.

02:04:58.000 I mean, the number of people right now that are saying they want deferrals partly because of the COVID and online classes, they don't want to go back to college.

02:05:05.000 And then this stuff's blown out and every college president's like, we're going to be a full anti-racist thing.

02:05:09.000 The other thing nobody's factoring in yet is the other backlash, which is going to be law.

02:05:14.000 Okay.

02:05:16.000 Niagara Falls of lawsuits is coming because a bunch of people are – so here's – like imagine you run a business.

02:05:22.000 You do run a business.

02:05:23.000 So all of a sudden this event happens.

02:05:26.000 Everybody is supposed to have their statement.

02:05:28.000 There's tons of social pressure to make your statement.

02:05:29.000 If you don't make a statement, it's compelled to say, oh, your business didn't say something about Black Lives Matter, so you have to say something one way or the other.

02:05:37.000 So everybody's making a statement.

02:05:38.000 Everybody's trying to do the thing, and they don't know what to do.

02:05:41.000 So I hear from a lot of people that email me about – at their job, they talk to their boss, and the boss is like, well, we have to do something, and there's this.

02:05:50.000 There's this program, this anti-racism program, so we have to do something, and that's the thing.

02:05:55.000 And we'll just take it up.

02:05:56.000 And a lot of people are successfully pushing back on that and saying, look, there are other ways.

02:06:00.000 Right?

02:06:00.000 We can actually do other diversity programs than this one.

02:06:03.000 And when they realize that, a lot of bosses are saying, huh, yeah, maybe we should think a little harder about this.

02:06:08.000 So everybody's acting really fast.

02:06:10.000 And there's a clear moral panic going on.

02:06:13.000 So people are making bad decisions.

02:06:15.000 They're opening themselves up to a lot of future litigation.

02:06:19.000 If you're actually having an official statement or policy of your company that says something like that you believe that all white people are complicit in racism or are racists, then you've now called all your white employees racist.

02:06:32.000 That's not good.

02:06:33.000 That's probably discriminatory. 0.73

02:06:35.000 But do you think you can actually sue someone for that?

02:06:38.000 My point isn't whether or not you can.

02:06:40.000 My point is that a lot of people are going to try.

02:06:43.000 But I think that the courts are even siding towards being more woke because it's society's...

02:06:49.000 Cultural shift has moved in that direction.

02:06:51.000 Some yes and some no, and there's a point to that.

02:06:54.000 But on the other hand, for example, if you look at the Title IX cases where those mostly boys, but it wasn't always boys, got totally railroaded in kangaroo courts.

02:07:01.000 They got accused of sexual misconduct.

02:07:04.000 The university ends up expelling them or whatever, the girl with a mattress or whatever that happened. 0.96

02:07:09.000 And then they're suing in civil court, and they're almost all winning.

02:07:13.000 Did that kid, the mattress boy, did he sue? 0.88

02:07:18.000 I don't know if he did specifically or not, but I do know that there have been a number of civil suits.

02:07:22.000 That lady was bringing her mattress on the stage when she accepted her diploma. 1.00

02:07:28.000 I mean, it's performance art.

02:07:30.000 Yeah.

02:07:31.000 It's just performance art.

02:07:34.000 We can't run the world on performance art, though.

02:07:37.000 Yeah.

02:07:37.000 What's really strange too is that if you accuse someone of something and it turns out that not be true, you don't really get in trouble for that.

02:07:45.000 That's a thing.

02:07:46.000 That's a real problem.

02:07:48.000 That's a thing.

02:07:48.000 Because there's no actual repercussions for being deceptive and ruining someone's life.

02:07:54.000 I have a friend who was accused of sexual assault by a woman and it was proven that he didn't do it and nothing ever happened to her.

02:08:02.000 He just made some stuff up about him and So we got laws against revenge porn, right?

02:08:08.000 You can't film your girlfriend or whatever and then you break up and then you put her on the internet to put her on blast or embarrass her or whatever.

02:08:15.000 It's against the law now.

02:08:16.000 We made laws about that.

02:08:17.000 I mean this doxing stuff or these videos where they're filming people and accusing them of being racist and it blows up their lives.

02:08:24.000 There may have to be legislation built around that.

02:08:26.000 So the question becomes, will the political will be there?

02:08:29.000 That depends on the people and it depends on the politicians.

02:08:32.000 I know your lovely state here, California, just the state legislature has voted to take the anti-discrimination language out of the state constitution, which I think is a bold move.

02:08:42.000 I think the people get to decide on that in the end, in maybe November.

02:08:46.000 What is the anti-discrimination language in the constitution that they're removing?

02:08:51.000 Are you going to pull that one up?

02:08:54.000 It's like Article 31 or something like that.

02:08:56.000 It is unbelievable that they voted to put this up to be pulled out of the Constitution.

02:09:02.000 What was their motivation?

02:09:03.000 It's like you can't discriminate or favor by race, gender, sex, sexual orientation, so on and so forth.

02:09:11.000 Why would they remove that?

02:09:12.000 Because equity requires discrimination.

02:09:15.000 If you listen to this guy that's blasting all over, Ibram Kendi, how to be anti-racist, he even has a sentence in the book where he says that you have to evaluate everything according to whether it has racist or anti-racist outcomes.

02:09:28.000 So if you have discrimination policy that says you cannot discriminate and then that makes it so you don't have equity, then that's actually a racist policy.

02:09:36.000 Right.

02:09:37.000 So they're actually advocating...

02:09:38.000 I mean, equity requires...

02:09:39.000 They're advocating discrimination?

02:09:41.000 Correct.

02:09:41.000 But it'll be positive discrimination...

02:09:43.000 Well, it might actually be both...

02:09:44.000 Discrimination against white males.

02:09:45.000 It'll be discrimination for at first.

02:09:48.000 Discrimination for minorities. 0.98

02:09:50.000 So the equivalent of affirmative action and reparations.

02:09:52.000 And then they'll add in, possibly, discrimination against if they aren't achieving what they're trying to do.

02:09:57.000 Is this clear that this is their motivation?

02:09:59.000 Is this...

02:10:00.000 I mean, they don't lie about it.

02:10:02.000 They just say it all the time, is that if you don't have equal outcomes, then the system must be – I mean, you can see how this is like putting wallpaper over a hole in your wall.

02:10:11.000 If the system has unequal outcomes, it must be discrimination, so you're just going to – I mean they say it explicitly.

02:10:20.000 And you see this.

02:10:21.000 Actually, there's a lawsuit, at least one lawsuit, one in New York City where they were openly discriminating against Asian students. 0.99

02:10:27.000 Like they were discriminating against Asians to make it because they're academically kicking all the ass. 0.98

02:10:33.000 And so – They were making it more difficult. 0.99

02:10:36.000 They would have to have had a higher GPA to get in.

02:10:39.000 Yeah.

02:10:40.000 What's going on with that Harvard?

02:10:42.000 There's a lawsuit with Harvard with that.

02:10:44.000 Right.

02:10:44.000 I don't know where it's at, though.

02:10:46.000 Yeah, that's troubling.

02:10:48.000 This is troubling stuff.

02:10:50.000 I mean, I say California does this.

02:10:52.000 I don't know what happens because it's in violation of the federal laws.

02:10:57.000 So, I mean, it's directly against Title VII. Who's pushing for that?

02:11:03.000 I mean, all of these kind of hustlers that are getting all famous are pushing for it, but then, again, as your state legislature actually voted amongst themselves to put it up to a vote, all the more reason to move to Texas or something.

02:11:18.000 God, it's so spooky. 0.99

02:11:20.000 It's like, where do they think this shit goes? 1.00

02:11:22.000 It's like there's no map of the territory. 0.99

02:11:25.000 There's no, like, if we do this, then, you know, we're going to have this kind of success in the future because, you know, we'll discriminate to the point where we reach some sort of homeostasis.

02:11:39.000 I mean...

02:11:39.000 Some equality.

02:11:40.000 There are some scary...

02:11:42.000 Judge ruled for Harvard.

02:11:44.000 Wow.

02:11:45.000 Wow.

02:11:46.000 It's on their website.

02:11:48.000 So the ruling was last October.

02:11:51.000 Okay.

02:11:53.000 Interesting.

02:11:54.000 Politically motivated lawsuit brought by Edward Blum and the organization he created Students for the Fair Admissions wants to remove the consideration of race in college and university admissions.

02:12:06.000 What's at stake?

02:12:07.000 The ability of colleges and universities across the country to create the diverse communities essential to their educational missions and the success of their students.

02:12:17.000 So the problem was that so many of these Asian kids were doing so well that they had a disproportionate number of Asian students and they wanted to balance it out better.

02:12:26.000 They want more blacks and Latinos specifically.

02:12:28.000 They usually say it, at least in New York City, they actually say it, that it's blacks and Latinos. 0.98

02:12:32.000 They say it over and over and over again, that Asians and whites and Jews are filling all the spots and blacks and Latinos aren't.

02:12:40.000 So what you're actually looking at is they're trying to move to a space where they can put racial quotas in. 0.79

02:12:44.000 That's so crazy.

02:12:46.000 And it hurts people, right?

02:12:48.000 So if you take, like with Harvard, Harvard's hard.

02:12:50.000 It's a hard school.

02:12:52.000 So if you take somebody who's academically not prepared for Harvard and you stick them in Harvard, they're going to underperform.

02:12:57.000 And then if you would have stuck them in a school that they actually are, you know, it matches their capabilities, then they're going to excel.

02:13:06.000 That's how it works.

02:13:07.000 You can't, like if we went out into the gym and we put some weights on there, right?

02:13:12.000 And you're like, all right, Jim, you're going to bench 400 pounds.

02:13:15.000 I'm like, no, I'm not.

02:13:17.000 But it's like, you know, you wanted to coach me.

02:13:19.000 You would say, all right, we found out you can do like 190 or whatever.

02:13:22.000 So we're going to push yourself.

02:13:23.000 We're going to try 195. You know, within that little bit of a range, you can cause somebody to excel.

02:13:27.000 And then within however many months or years, I'm benching 300, 400 pounds.

02:13:31.000 You can't just put people in hard mode and then watch them succeed.

02:13:35.000 And then, again, I get these emails from people.

02:13:37.000 They're telling me their story.

02:13:38.000 I get this one from this black guy who said that he never had any of his work corrected.

02:13:42.000 And how does he know in his master's program?

02:13:44.000 What?

02:13:45.000 How does he know?

02:13:46.000 In his master's program?

02:13:47.000 Yeah.

02:13:48.000 So he started deliberately putting mistakes in to see if they'd correct it.

02:13:51.000 And they wouldn't.

02:13:51.000 They didn't correct it.

02:13:53.000 Like he was putting mistakes in on purpose.

02:13:54.000 Right.

02:13:55.000 Right? 0.96

02:13:55.000 So he's getting A's on all these papers that he was writing that were just junk. 0.96

02:13:59.000 And now he can't get a job because his skills never develop to the point where they're actually competitive.

02:14:04.000 So it's like trying to help people by the wrong means hurts them.

02:14:08.000 Well, they don't care about the end result, right?

02:14:10.000 They don't care about you getting a job.

02:14:11.000 They really just care about you graduating and looking good on there.

02:14:14.000 It's like I said.

02:14:15.000 It's like putting wallpaper over a hole in the wall and considering it fixed.

02:14:18.000 It's like, oh, we're just going to fix the numbers on the back end.

02:14:21.000 And problem solved, you know?

02:14:23.000 If Harvard really wanted to make things equal, they would try to figure out why they're not.

02:14:28.000 Based on, you know, like if they have only X amount of white people and X amount of Asian people, like why are there less of this race or nationality than the other?

02:14:37.000 And let's put some study into what can be done and use all these brilliant minds to figure out what can be done to make this better.

02:14:45.000 So that's the difference between critical theory and traditional theory.

02:14:48.000 So you're saying we should use traditional theory, which every reasonable person in the world now...

02:14:54.000 Let me give you an idea.

02:14:55.000 Like, this systemic thing makes that impossible.

02:14:59.000 So imagine – I'll give you an analogy that helps you understand what systemic, say racism or systemic, what this idea really means.

02:15:07.000 So imagine like you and I go out for a walk down the sidewalk, right?

02:15:12.000 And for whatever reason, You step on, you know, the back end of a broken bottle and you trip and you bump into me and you knock me into the road when you trip and I happen to get hit by a car and I die.

02:15:25.000 Okay, so whose fault was that?

02:15:27.000 Obviously, usually we'd probably say it's like no fault or whatever.

02:15:30.000 But if you start looking at it the way that these scholars do, and this is actually tracking the same argument that's in the book, Being White, Being Good, by Barbara Applebaum about white complicity.

02:15:39.000 What happens is you could say, well, it's your fault for tripping, and it's my fault for deciding to walk on the street side versus the inside and walking right next to you instead of sitting in front of you.

02:15:50.000 It's the person who drove the car's fault for, you know, maybe they were speeding...

02:15:55.000 Maybe they happened to have chose to go at that time.

02:15:57.000 Maybe the doctor called and they had to run out of the house.

02:15:59.000 So the doctors now got some complicity in the situation.

02:16:04.000 The kid who broke the bottle last night after he had a couple of beers, well, it's his fault, so he's complicit.

02:16:09.000 But then if you go all the way to this systemic understanding where you're just looking at the back end, the wallpaper over the hole in the wall, it would be saying, well, we live in a culture where people drive cars.

02:16:22.000 We live in a culture that supports cars and beer.

02:16:41.000 Everybody, car culture is to blame for me getting hit by that car.

02:16:46.000 And so you can see it makes it impossible to figure out where moral responsibility actually lies because it puts it on everybody.

02:16:52.000 And it makes it impossible to see what the actual causes are.

02:16:56.000 Another story I had from – similar to this was from University of Michigan.

02:17:00.000 There's this program called Stride and it's supposed to fix for these disparities.

02:17:05.000 So I'm talking to somebody and he's talking about hiring, academic hiring, and he says, OK. The way the Stride program looks at it, for whatever reason, men have twice as many of this as women, whatever the thing is.

02:17:16.000 And so Stride says, okay, so if a woman applies, you count the number, if a man and a woman apply, you count the number the man has, you double the number the women have. 0.55

02:17:24.000 And I said, hang on a second, wait a minute.

02:17:27.000 Do you know why that number is different?

02:17:29.000 He said, no.

02:17:31.000 Nobody knows why it's different.

02:17:32.000 It just is.

02:17:33.000 So we're just going to double it.

02:17:33.000 And I said, but some of that might be discrimination and some of it might not.

02:17:36.000 And I would agree with you that we should consider making up for the part that is discrimination.

02:17:40.000 So maybe it's half of that is discrimination.

02:17:42.000 So you add something, but you don't double it because some of it might be something different and you don't know.

02:17:47.000 And he was like, well, what else could it be?

02:17:49.000 Right?

02:17:50.000 So this systemic thinking prevents you from being able to start thinking of what the real causes, the real problems are.

02:17:56.000 So it's again, it's fixing your hole in your wall by just like, let's just put up some wallpaper, you know?

02:18:01.000 But systemic thinking right now is very popular.

02:18:04.000 It's so hot.

02:18:05.000 It's everything.

02:18:06.000 Yes.

02:18:06.000 They love saying it, too, because it sounds good.

02:18:08.000 And it's religious.

02:18:09.000 I mean, it's a spiritual thing, right?

02:18:11.000 Yeah.

02:18:11.000 There's a system.

02:18:12.000 It works in mysterious ways.

02:18:14.000 And it does in a lot of ways.

02:18:16.000 It works.

02:18:16.000 I mean, this comes back to, if we look at the book, Michel Foucault's philosophy, power and politics work through everybody constantly by the way that we speak about things, by the way that we think about things.

02:18:28.000 So you have this kind of like vague mystical sense of how society works is that it's operating through everybody and everybody's complicit and tied into it.

02:18:34.000 Well, I don't have a problem with them being wrong.

02:18:37.000 Me either.

02:18:38.000 But I do have a problem that this stuff can't be questioned.

02:18:42.000 Right.

02:18:43.000 And that if you even bring it up, you get insulted and, you know, you're probably going to get attacked now.

02:18:48.000 That's right.

02:18:48.000 You know what else I have a problem with is that they come in and they sell you something like anti-racism or diversity or inclusion or equity, and they don't tell you really what it means.

02:18:56.000 It just sounds good, right?

02:18:58.000 And so that's why I'm writing that encyclopedia.

02:19:01.000 My opinion, you know, I am a firm believer that people should be able to believe what they want.

02:19:06.000 They should be able to, within not injuring people or whatever, you know, do what they want.

02:19:10.000 You should really, we should have freedom, a lot of freedom.

02:19:12.000 And so...

02:19:14.000 I think that people, though, should be able to know what they're signing up for.

02:19:18.000 And this language is so tricky.

02:19:20.000 They've really engineered the language to be so tricky that people think, oh, anti-racism, that sounds really good, so let's do it. 1.00

02:19:27.000 And it actually – like the definition of it is a lifelong commitment to self-reflection, self-critique, and social activism.

02:19:32.000 It's ongoing and – No one has ever done.

02:19:35.000 That's actually the definition. 0.76

02:19:37.000 Isn't that kind of what's wrong with a lot of this woke shit is that we're monkeying around with definitions and language. 0.90

02:19:44.000 We're changing. 0.98

02:19:46.000 We're changing language.

02:19:47.000 We're screwing with what things actually mean to the point where everything gets very vague and confusing and to challenge it, you're ostracized.

02:19:56.000 That's right.

02:19:57.000 When you hear like Like Antifa talk about fascism. 0.93

02:20:01.000 Everybody's a fascist. 0.97

02:20:02.000 Everybody's a Nazi now.

02:20:04.000 What they actually like if you dig in and figure out what the word fascism means, it actually means a functioning society.

02:20:11.000 Because it has to have, like, police, it has to have order, it has to have, you know, an economy that functions.

02:20:16.000 It means not anarchy.

02:20:19.000 Because anything that could lead to a total fascist state equals fascism in the present, according to the way you think about it.

02:20:25.000 That comes again from that Herbert Marcuse guy who wrote it explicitly in Repressive Tolerance in 1965. We live in a perpetual state of emergency now that fascism has entered the world.

02:20:36.000 So everything that could produce fascism is fascism.

02:20:39.000 Sure.

02:20:40.000 And it's like, I'm sorry, man. 1.00

02:20:42.000 That's a fucking lunatic. 1.00

02:20:43.000 It's just not real. 1.00

02:20:45.000 Yeah, but how does this get corrected if you can't criticize it?

02:20:48.000 That's the real issue, right?

02:20:50.000 If it's happening at the university level, but it's not being questioned at the university level, so there's no real debate.

02:20:58.000 So how does this ever get corrected?

02:21:00.000 It seems like it has to get out into the world, and then by then the fire is so big, there's not enough hoses to put it out.

02:21:06.000 That's right.

02:21:06.000 That's actually kind of the way this has worked, is that they've got so many people thinking this way, it's hard to put the fires out.

02:21:18.000 I'm going to go.

02:21:36.000 I'm not.

02:21:37.000 I mean, there are definitions that say things like there's only racist and anti-racist.

02:21:42.000 There's no such thing as not racist. 1.00

02:21:43.000 Like, screw you. 0.99

02:21:44.000 I'm not racist. 1.00

02:21:45.000 That is crazy.

02:21:46.000 Just move on.

02:21:48.000 When did anti-racist rear its head?

02:21:50.000 That seems a fairly new expression, but it's getting tossed around like a beach ball at a concert.

02:21:55.000 It became big just in the last few years off of a couple of these authors like Ibram Kendi and Robin DiAngelo, who dedicate a lot of their work to it.

02:22:04.000 DiAngelo's book That's relevant was 2018. And Kendi's was, I think, I think, I have to check 2019 for his How to Be an Anti-Racist.

02:22:15.000 He has an older one.

02:22:16.000 And this is the same lady that wrote the White Fragility book? 0.99

02:22:18.000 That is White Fragility I'm talking about. 1.00

02:22:19.000 Oh, that is from 18. I mean, she has other, yeah, it's 2018. She has other books that are even crazier, like What Does It Mean to Be White?

02:22:25.000 Oh, so she's a hustler. 1.00

02:22:27.000 She's a big-time hustler. 1.00

02:22:28.000 She has this paper I actually found.

02:22:30.000 Somebody sent it to me the other day.

02:22:31.000 This is a real paper.

02:22:31.000 And it's called something about the racial cray-cray, white neurosis and the racial cray-cray from 2013. Like, you can find it if you Google that name.

02:22:42.000 Racial cray-cray. 0.94

02:22:44.000 It's one of the most insane things I've ever read.

02:22:47.000 It's got these sections in the paper, introduction or whatever, and then at the beginning of each one, it's like they just make something up, like this weird rant, and then it ends in a poem, and it says that white people and white supremacy cause a racial cray-cray in white people, and then white racial cray-cray causes...

02:23:05.000 I want other people to have to live with racial cray-cray so they get racial cray-cray too. 0.99

02:23:09.000 I'm not making that up.

02:23:10.000 That's real.

02:23:11.000 Trevor Burrus White supremacy is another one that's getting chucked around quite a bit lately.

02:23:14.000 Trevor Burrus It's because they've changed the definition.

02:23:15.000 Trevor Burrus Yeah, exactly.

02:23:16.000 Trevor Burrus You know what some things – and so I'm going to point out this is actually from a legislative body – sorry, an administrative body set up by the state legislature of Washington in January called the Equity Task Force.

02:23:29.000 And you know what they said was white supremacy coming through their mouths as they said it?

02:23:35.000 Keeping a meeting agenda.

02:23:39.000 Staying on a schedule.

02:23:40.000 There's a 2017 paper by Alison Bailey that talks about- Those specific things?

02:23:46.000 Those specific things.

02:23:47.000 Keeping a meeting scheduled?

02:23:49.000 Yes.

02:23:50.000 A schedule, an agenda.

02:23:51.000 So there's actually something that I read a year or so ago because of the schedule thing that wearing a wristwatch, because that means you care about time and being on time, is white supremacy.

02:24:02.000 White supremacy is believing that the society that white people created, which means science, reason, logic, civility, rule of law, democracy, that that's good.

02:24:12.000 That's the definition of white supremacy.

02:24:13.000 So if somebody calls me a white supremacist, once you know that— Is that all white society?

02:24:17.000 Isn't that Egyptian as well?

02:24:18.000 I mean, not the way they think about it.

02:24:21.000 All they care about is the way that white Western men following the Enlightenment started to use this to oppress people.

02:24:29.000 Oh, God. 0.69

02:24:30.000 That's – well, watch as white supremacy. 0.94

02:24:32.000 Watch as a white supremacy.

02:24:33.000 So this Alison Bailey woman has this paper where she literally – the point of the paper is to say anything that disagrees is a man – or anything that disagrees is somebody just trying to keep their privilege.

02:24:42.000 She calls it privilege-preserving epistemic pushback.

02:24:44.000 That's a real term.

02:24:45.000 And so in the paper, though, she says that the master's tools in philosophy, which are – that's slavery, right?

02:24:53.000 That's white supremacy.

02:24:54.000 The master's tools that maintain white supremacy are like philosophical soundness, epistemic adequacy, which means knowing what you're talking about, science, reason.

02:25:06.000 Like that's what they think white supremacy is.

02:25:08.000 Science is white supremacy.

02:25:10.000 Yeah.

02:25:10.000 That's why you have to now have to redo chemistry and make chemistry woke.

02:25:14.000 And this is being taught in schools, so people are paying money to learn this.

02:25:19.000 Correct.

02:25:19.000 And that legislative entity in Washington, their equity task force, they defined equity.

02:25:26.000 When I say equity, you probably have – what do you think?

02:25:29.000 You think something like equality, something different, a little bit, something, but you have that vague sense of equality.

02:25:33.000 They said it equals disrupt plus dismantle.

02:25:46.000 Jim, you're hurting my head.

02:25:56.000 Since these riots broke out, I've actually been much calmer.

02:25:59.000 For about the last six to eight months, I've been literally having my right eyelid twitch, like constantly, all the time.

02:26:07.000 I even had it twitching in my sleep, to where the muscle that causes your eyelid to flutter got cramps.

02:26:11.000 It sucked.

02:26:12.000 What do you think that's from? 1.00

02:26:13.000 It was from knowing that this shit was happening and nobody having any way to see it. 0.99

02:26:18.000 And I was trying to write this website as fast as I could. 0.99

02:26:21.000 I wrote like 200,000 words on new discourses from Christmas till like the riots broke out.

02:26:25.000 It's like I'm trying to tell the world about this.

02:26:28.000 At least more people are listening.

02:26:30.000 That's what I'm very hopeful about.

02:26:32.000 It was a thing that you were talking about a few years ago, and people were like, why are you wasting your time on this nonsense?

02:26:38.000 This will never be a factor in the real world.

02:26:41.000 Incorrect.

02:26:42.000 Incorrect?

02:26:43.000 Incorrect.

02:26:44.000 That's why we started writing this book, was to explain that to people, because we were getting gaslit.

02:26:49.000 I mean, we were getting told by philosophers that we just didn't know what we were talking about.

02:26:53.000 And then Helen wasn't going to have that, and she was like, I'll just write a book and tell them.

02:26:58.000 Helen's our machine gunner, man.

02:27:00.000 I need to meet her.

02:27:01.000 Oh, she's great. 0.89

02:27:02.000 She can't come over here from the UK, right? 0.97

02:27:03.000 Not now.

02:27:04.000 Not with those viruses and stuff.

02:27:05.000 Back then she couldn't when we did our first podcast together.

02:27:09.000 She could if the virus and health and stuff get associated.

02:27:13.000 God, I hope it clears up.

02:27:15.000 She's the most perfectly principled and clear person I think I've ever worked with.

02:27:21.000 She's a marvel.

02:27:22.000 That's a hell of a statement.

02:27:24.000 Yeah.

02:27:25.000 Well, she said that I'm the least sexist person she's ever worked with, which I think is also pretty good.

02:27:30.000 Congratulations.

02:27:30.000 What did you do to purge your obvious innate?

02:27:34.000 I just treat people's ideas as ideas.

02:27:37.000 So the reason she said that was because I didn't, like, there's a thing called benevolent sexism where you're too nice to women, and I just don't do it.

02:27:44.000 Oh, benevolent sexism. 1.00

02:27:46.000 Interesting. 1.00

02:27:47.000 You hold doors open and shit like that? 0.99

02:27:49.000 Correct. 1.00

02:27:49.000 You piece of shit. 1.00

02:27:50.000 She could hold the door open herself. 1.00

02:27:52.000 Yeah, well, I mean...

02:27:53.000 What about if you hold doors open for men only?

02:27:56.000 I mean...

02:27:57.000 Then you seem like a sexist too.

02:27:59.000 That's right. 0.61

02:27:59.000 Double bind. 0.61

02:28:01.000 You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. 1.00

02:28:02.000 You're double fucked there, right? 1.00

02:28:03.000 That's right. 1.00

02:28:04.000 So you have to see race, but if you see race, you're racist.

02:28:08.000 Correct. 1.00

02:28:09.000 Right, because if you say, I'm only holding doors open for men, they're like, what kind of piece of shit sexist do you? 1.00

02:28:14.000 Exactly. 0.99

02:28:14.000 I don't know, I'm not a sexist, so I don't hold doors open for women because they can do it themselves. 0.99

02:28:18.000 So here's Helen's example of a perfect double bind, but it's race, it's not sex, but it could work exactly the same. 0.98

02:28:23.000 She says, imagine that you have a store, and a shopkeeper's there, and a black customer and a white customer are both in the store at the same time, and the shopkeeper goes up to help one person first.

02:28:34.000 So if they go, and this is what critical race theory, this is how it would analyze what happens.

02:28:38.000 So if the shopkeeper goes to the white person first, it would say that's clear racism, white favoritism, and make the black person wait. 0.58

02:28:47.000 But if it went to the black person first, it would say it's clear racism because she wanted to get the black person out of the store faster. 1.00

02:28:54.000 Oh boy. 0.99

02:28:55.000 That's literally how critical race theory would operate with that because one of the – Damned if you do. 0.99

02:29:00.000 Well, one of the tenets of critical race theory is that racism is ordinary, not aberrational in the United States society.

02:29:06.000 And it is not – the question is no longer did racism take place for that as to be assumed but rather – How did racism manifest in that situation?

02:29:17.000 So I mean that's – I quoted Robert D'Angelo for that.

02:29:21.000 So the belief is that racism is in literally every interaction and it's up to the critical race theorist.

02:29:29.000 That's the critical race theorist's job is to find it even if you have to make it up like master bedroom.

02:29:35.000 God.

02:29:35.000 I think the master bedroom thing was voluntary.

02:29:38.000 I think someone just in that business just said we probably shouldn't say master bedroom.

02:29:43.000 It blew up on Twitter about a month ago because I live on Twitter.

02:29:46.000 As you know, I've basically neo'd into the Twitter matrix.

02:29:50.000 Do you ever take days off?

02:29:53.000 Yeah, no.

02:29:54.000 I mean, not really lately because it's like if my eyelids are twitching because the world's going to end, man, what are you going to do?

02:29:59.000 But if, you know...

02:30:00.000 You know, like, Mike, the filmmaker, came to visit, and, like, we went hiking and stuff, and it was days off.

02:30:07.000 You know, we were talking about this stuff, but we were out in the woods and, you know, doing normal stuff.

02:30:10.000 I try to get out.

02:30:11.000 I mean, with the pandemic, I don't really, but I try to get out.

02:30:15.000 Like, usually I have my trip to China every year in two weeks, and it's just, you know, no work.

02:30:22.000 So, some, but not much, especially right now, man.

02:30:25.000 It's like...

02:30:26.000 It's not good to be one of the few people who's actually...

02:30:29.000 I'm watching the train wrecking, and everybody's like, what's happening?

02:30:34.000 That's the thing, is that you're willing to call it for what it is, which is a very dangerous game right now.

02:30:40.000 That's right.

02:30:40.000 It's a very dangerous game, because people don't want to hear that.

02:30:44.000 I can do it, because I actually know what I'm talking about. 0.89

02:30:46.000 So when they come back at me, I quote their own literature at them, and usually they don't know their literature as well as I do, because I've read all this crap.

02:30:53.000 I've read a lot of it over and over again.

02:30:54.000 I've read D'Angelo's book twice.

02:30:56.000 I've read, you know...

02:30:57.000 This is a heavy burden you've got in your head.

02:31:00.000 Oh, dude.

02:31:00.000 It's not a good place.

02:31:02.000 I mean, I keep trying to tell people, people are like, oh, you're a grifter, you're trying to...

02:31:05.000 No, it's actually I want to make myself irrelevant by making this go away, and then I want to retire.

02:31:10.000 That's it.

02:31:11.000 That's all I want in life.

02:31:12.000 That grifter term gets used really inappropriately all the time.

02:31:16.000 Anybody who doesn't disagree with someone is a grifter, particularly if you disagree with someone who has a right-wing philosophy, or excuse me, a left-wing philosophy.

02:31:24.000 You don't even have to make money to be a grifter.

02:31:26.000 I made zero dollars for the vast majority of the time.

02:31:28.000 I make a little on Patreon now, so I can't say it anymore, but I made zero dollars for the majority of the time that I've done this, and people are calling me a grifter because I was getting Twitter followers.

02:31:37.000 Like, Twitter followers are somehow, like, I think?

02:32:00.000 I will tell you the truth.

02:32:01.000 I actually think I have a pretty good handle on how I live but I don't know your circumstances.

02:32:05.000 I don't know how – I don't know your stories.

02:32:07.000 I don't know how to tell you what to – I know some principles are good.

02:32:10.000 I'm real big on authenticity, real big on authenticity.

02:32:13.000 I actually should write something about authenticity that's clear and accessible for people.

02:32:17.000 I think people should be authentic.

02:32:18.000 I think you should take the time to learn who you are.

02:32:22.000 Take the time.

02:32:23.000 It's not easy.

02:32:24.000 It's not easy, and it's best done through struggle, in my opinion.

02:32:28.000 It is.

02:32:28.000 You have to go wrestle up against some stuff.

02:32:31.000 You have to be told where you're failing. 1.00

02:32:33.000 You have to be told where you suck. 0.99

02:32:34.000 Yeah, you have to have a discipline. 1.00

02:32:36.000 Right.

02:32:37.000 Usually, there's something about doing a thing that lets you know who you are.

02:32:41.000 I mean, it's not for everybody, so I can't say it, but the martial arts have been great for that for me, and they have been for you.

02:32:47.000 It works for a lot of people.

02:32:49.000 Some people...

02:32:49.000 I mean, you don't have to do that, though.

02:32:51.000 Running, yoga, anything.

02:32:52.000 Exactly.

02:32:53.000 But find a discipline, and it's really...

02:32:55.000 Something.

02:32:56.000 When you push yourself, you find out...

02:32:58.000 You find out where you're going to quit.

02:33:00.000 You find out your shortcomings.

02:33:01.000 You find out where your demons are, where the skeletons are in your head.

02:33:06.000 That's right.

02:33:07.000 And, you know, ideally it needs to be something that bounces off of reality.

02:33:10.000 Yeah.

02:33:10.000 Right?

02:33:11.000 You can't, like, if it's just going in reading and writing stuff, that's how you, like, you can go pretty far out into la-la land.

02:33:17.000 Right.

02:33:17.000 So you need to bounce it off reality.

02:33:19.000 I used to say that philosophers need, I used to work a lot in my garden and I would say that I suck at gardening, by the way.

02:33:25.000 But philosophers need to get their hands on the soil because you can't lie about it.

02:33:29.000 You feel it.

02:33:29.000 You smell it.

02:33:30.000 It's heavy.

02:33:31.000 I'm from Tennessee, so it's like sticky clay.

02:33:33.000 You can't get it off you.

02:33:35.000 And it's like – and that earth smell is – and it's like wet.

02:33:38.000 It's like it's real and you're sweating and it's like – you can't – reality won't lie to you.

02:33:44.000 Right.

02:33:45.000 And that's where this is so – like my answer to this problem is we need to remember that objective principles work and that we need to defer to reality not lying to us because we can lie to ourselves all day.

02:33:57.000 We can lie to ourselves and say that Fallon Fox is exactly the same as the people whose heads she literally beat in and then went on Twitter and bragged about how it was fun to crack that person's skull.

02:34:08.000 Yeah.

02:34:09.000 She derived enjoyment from that.

02:34:10.000 You can go on Tumblr or Twitter and deconstruct your identity and become a completely different person, but reality doesn't lie to you.

02:34:22.000 It never lies to you.

02:34:23.000 The only thing that lies is your lived experience, your interpretation of your lived experience of reality.

02:34:29.000 So I think that people need to do that.

02:34:31.000 Do something hard.

02:34:32.000 Try to build a thing.

02:34:33.000 And when it falls down, because it will, try again.

02:34:37.000 Like I tried getting into blacksmithing for a little while a year or so ago.

02:34:41.000 I made a couple of little knives.

02:34:43.000 Like really little knives because I only had a little tiny forge.

02:34:46.000 So they're like really little, like embarrassingly little.

02:34:48.000 But I was just fooling around, you know.

02:34:50.000 But the steel doesn't lie.

02:34:52.000 And when you drop the steel, like I did one time and it's yellow, whatever it touches catches on fire.

02:34:57.000 That doesn't lie either.

02:34:58.000 Right?

02:34:59.000 So it's like you have to, I think people need more reality.

02:35:03.000 Like they need to unplug.

02:35:04.000 Yeah, that's a problem with just thinking, right?

02:35:08.000 Just thinking and then also expanding and expounding upon those thoughts in front of other people that are also just thinking and you're all doing it together.

02:35:17.000 You need some sort of a tangible physical discipline to go along with that that sort of tempers you.

02:35:25.000 I think that's exactly right.

02:35:26.000 And something that's, you know, a long practice that makes, like, yoga or martial arts or running to, like, get good at it.

02:35:33.000 That's really great because, you know, you're going to have pitfalls and you're going to have to learn to struggle and overcome.

02:35:38.000 You're going to develop—a little bit of stoicism is going to come with just to get through.

02:35:43.000 You have to.

02:35:45.000 Yeah.

02:35:45.000 You have to.

02:35:46.000 Because it—I mean— You know, I've had matches before where I went on and I was all hot shot or whatever back when I used to do sport karate and some dude just kicked me in the side of the head and I was like unconscious and that's just the end of that.

02:35:56.000 You know, and it's like you've got to reassess your cockiness real fast.

02:36:01.000 Yes. 0.99

02:36:01.000 Once you get your head kicked so hard you get knocked out. 0.99

02:36:06.000 Like I didn't even see the kick.

02:36:08.000 I just woke up later, you know.

02:36:10.000 So it's like...

02:36:12.000 Something like that where you're going to have these pitfalls or like I had when I was learning the martial arts I train now, I had a really long period of time where what we called it was a knowledge use gap.

02:36:21.000 Like I could do the forms or whatever.

02:36:24.000 I could practice the techniques and I could do them what looked to be accurate.

02:36:27.000 But when I tried to do them on a person, it didn't work.

02:36:30.000 Right?

02:36:30.000 Until it works on a person, it doesn't work.

02:36:33.000 I even said this on Twitter this morning, is I think we need to have an ethic, like our culture needs to start remembering an ethic that your education, whether it's school or whether it's training or whatever it is, is worth what you can build with it.

02:36:48.000 It's not worth anything more than what you can build.

02:36:51.000 So if you go to trade school and you end up building some great business empire, Your education was good.

02:36:58.000 And if you go to university and get a PhD and do a couple postdocs and all you can do is whine and complain and you can't do anything productive, your education wasn't good.

02:37:10.000 And it doesn't see you immediately remove like these weird elite credentialing things from that It's what can you do with it that proves whether or not it was good in the world?

02:37:18.000 I think we need to kind of remember it's like a pragmatic thing, right?

02:37:21.000 What can you do with this? 0.87

02:37:23.000 Right and some people that can only teach the same thing that they learned Right and that becomes a problem because then you're so indoctrinated in the system and you just sort of perpetuating the same shit that got you to where you are We're good to go. 0.94

02:37:52.000 Right? 0.94

02:37:52.000 They say that's not what they say, but that's what it is. 0.94

02:37:55.000 They also don't want competition between students.

02:37:57.000 Exactly.

02:37:58.000 In particular, the test scores don't come out equal across all identity groups.

02:38:03.000 Therefore, the test must be racist.

02:38:06.000 Racist towards Asians.

02:38:08.000 Apparently, yeah. 0.99

02:38:10.000 They're the master race when it comes to school. 1.00

02:38:12.000 Yeah, we all got to practice our Mandarin if this keeps up. 0.56

02:38:15.000 Do you have hope?

02:38:17.000 I always have hope.

02:38:18.000 You do?

02:38:18.000 I mean I am actually naively optimistic generally.

02:38:23.000 I don't really – you know, it's more like this.

02:38:25.000 It's not even that.

02:38:27.000 I don't have time for people who are pessimistic whiners. 0.99

02:38:31.000 Even if this is the fucking end of the world, I'm not going to act like it is. 0.99

02:38:35.000 I'm not giving up. 0.99

02:38:36.000 If these people guillotine me in the end, then fine.

02:38:39.000 But I'm not – I see no value in saying, oh, it's hopeless.

02:38:44.000 Right?

02:38:45.000 So I'm an atheist.

02:38:46.000 We talked about that.

02:38:47.000 I mean, I would have actually said that last year, if I was writing my memoir, I was finding faith.

02:38:52.000 I don't have faith in God.

02:38:53.000 It didn't happen.

02:38:54.000 Sorry, Christian friends. 1.00

02:38:55.000 It just didn't happen.

02:38:56.000 But there is the ability to have faith in that if you do the work and that if you get yourself organized and you put your effort in— On a program that can actually achieve a result that you can.

02:39:09.000 Again, jiu-jitsu is a really great example.

02:39:12.000 I mean everybody who trains jiu-jitsu gets humbled.

02:39:15.000 But the deal is if you go to a qualified jiu-jitsu instructor, whether it's a Gracie, whether it's one of these other – there's lots of them now.

02:39:21.000 They're really good.

02:39:22.000 They have a program that you can have faith in because it reliably produces black belts who can basically kill everybody, right? 1.00

02:39:30.000 And so you can have faith. 1.00

02:39:31.000 Like you're going to go and for years you're going to suck. 1.00

02:39:34.000 You're going to get choked out. 0.99

02:39:35.000 You're going to get beat by – you're going to be a purple belt and get choked by a white belt who got a good move on you at some point and you're going to have a bad day afterwards. 0.91

02:39:44.000 It's going to come up sometimes, or some tricky kid that knows some wrestling is going to throw you, and you're like, how did this happen?

02:39:50.000 It's going to happen.

02:39:51.000 But if you have faith in that system, then you can also get there.

02:39:54.000 So that qualified faith is there.

02:39:57.000 And so I actually think that the principles we've laid down, for example, in our country work.

02:40:02.000 Let's defer to the evidence.

02:40:04.000 Let's defer to a rule of law knowing that we have a democratic process where we can remake the law as we need to hopefully incrementally and not through some stupid revolution and then that can work. 0.72

02:40:15.000 So I have to be hopeful because I know the thing can work.

02:40:19.000 If we're willing to kind of stand up for it and remember it.

02:40:24.000 I'm hoping that with all this looting and the chaos and the smashing things and the riots and the people – like we were talking earlier before the show about this guy who was at a – He was at a protest in Provo, Utah, and he was just trying to honk his horn and get through,

02:40:40.000 and they shot into his car.

02:40:41.000 That's madness.

02:40:42.000 It's crazy.

02:40:43.000 That's madness.

02:40:43.000 It's crazy.

02:40:44.000 And I'm hoping that this stuff is going to alarm people to the point where they start recognizing where this is going.

02:40:51.000 That's what I'm saying with Peak Woke.

02:40:53.000 Yeah, tearing down.

02:40:54.000 Like if that's being – like for me, so much – I mean I was already past peak woke, but like a real moment of wake-up call like this – there have been moments where this stuff has flared up in the past and you're like, oh, it's going to die down.

02:41:08.000 But not this.

02:41:08.000 Not this time.

02:41:09.000 And what it was was watching the media lie, watching the media defend stuff that's just not defensible.

02:41:16.000 Right?

02:41:16.000 And it's like, okay, so this is a thing.

02:41:19.000 I don't actually expect your average citizen to like – I don't expect people to know a damn thing. 0.92

02:41:24.000 It's hard. 0.51

02:41:25.000 Life is hard.

02:41:26.000 You go work your ass off.

02:41:27.000 You come home.

02:41:27.000 You don't have time to learn everything in the universe.

02:41:29.000 But if you have a job in like media or if you're in the government – Or you're like a college – I expect something out of you.

02:41:39.000 And I think we all have a right to expect something out of you.

02:41:41.000 So when you have some guy in the media yelling that where does it say anywhere for protests to have to be peaceful?

02:41:47.000 It's in the First Amendment.

02:41:48.000 You actually should probably know that.

02:41:51.000 I expect something out of you.

02:41:53.000 So we've got to – there's actually a crisis.

02:41:56.000 We could call it of expertise if you want.

02:41:58.000 There's a crisis of being able to recognize – That people, you know, are being held to an expectation of quality.

02:42:08.000 And I think the internet has facilitated it.

02:42:10.000 I think the incentives around hot takes go viral, whereas nuanced analysis doesn't go viral.

02:42:17.000 That hot take on where does it say that protests have to be peaceful?

02:42:21.000 It's like, Jesus Christ, man, what are you talking about?

02:42:24.000 And who are you pandering to with this?

02:42:26.000 Exactly.

02:42:27.000 That's what I'm talking about.

02:42:28.000 But even the way he said it was so disingenuous.

02:42:32.000 Oh, I know.

02:42:32.000 You could tell he was just saying it for the reaction, saying it for the fact that at this time, there's a lot of people that are Right.

02:42:56.000 Right.

02:42:57.000 Right.

02:43:02.000 I mean I hear – I mean I remember Martin Luther King wrote the thing and he said that the riots are the voice of – the utterly voiceless of the frustrated person.

02:43:11.000 Of the unheard.

02:43:12.000 Of the unheard.

02:43:12.000 That's right.

02:43:13.000 And I get that, man.

02:43:15.000 I get it.

02:43:15.000 But he also said … He also said … That you—I don't want to misquote him, so we should probably get the exact quote, but there's more to that quote.

02:43:24.000 Right.

02:43:24.000 It stops—it doesn't stop there.

02:43:26.000 Right, exactly.

02:43:27.000 And I understand, like, with the COVID, the whole thing, I understand that massive frustration, and I understand this.

02:43:33.000 But I expect my journalists, I expect my politicians, I expect my university presidents to be able to make clear— Statements that side with civil society.

02:43:48.000 You can even say, I recognize that outburst.

02:43:51.000 I acknowledge the outburst.

02:43:54.000 The problem is, the anger that they will experience from people that disagree with them is so much stronger than the support that they will experience from people that do agree with them.

02:44:03.000 That's the problem.

02:44:03.000 What was the full Martin Luther King quote?

02:44:09.000 Was it the riot is the voice of the unheard?

02:44:13.000 Is that what it was?

02:44:15.000 There's...

02:44:16.000 But there's more to it where he's talking about...

02:44:19.000 I mean, he's a very nuanced...

02:44:20.000 Yes.

02:44:21.000 A very nuanced writer.

02:44:22.000 But he's talking about the dangers of...

02:44:24.000 Speaking of Martin Luther King, you know what I actually think?

02:44:27.000 You want to know, like, what's my biggest conspiracy theory?

02:44:29.000 Yes.

02:44:30.000 I think that the movie Black Panther was a hoax on woke people.

02:44:34.000 What's the movie Black Panther?

02:44:35.000 Do you know the movie Black Panther?

02:44:37.000 Like, the big...

02:44:39.000 The Marvel movie.

02:44:39.000 Oh, that one?

02:44:40.000 Yeah.

02:44:41.000 That was a hoax?

02:44:42.000 I think so.

02:44:43.000 Oh, come on. 0.87

02:44:44.000 No.

02:44:44.000 It's a hoax.

02:44:45.000 Because first of all, they were all in about it, right?

02:44:47.000 They loved it.

02:44:48.000 Absolutely loved it.

02:44:49.000 They're calling their own stuff like Wakanda.

02:44:50.000 But it was a good movie.

02:44:51.000 It was a good movie.

02:44:51.000 I liked it.

02:44:52.000 I actually liked that film.

02:44:53.000 So how was it a hoax?

02:44:54.000 It was a hoax on woke people, specifically.

02:44:56.000 Oh, okay.

02:44:56.000 See, I'm a master at hoaxes of woke people, as you will know.

02:44:59.000 Right.

02:45:00.000 The story...

02:45:02.000 Actually is an allegory for Martin Luther King versus Malcolm X. So King T'Challa is Martin Luther King and Eric, the bad guy, the fake Black Panther, is Malcolm X. And he gets in power and he starts changing all the rules and he's,

02:45:19.000 you know, there will not be the fight anymore.

02:45:21.000 I'm just the king and the whole thing, right?

02:45:23.000 And then what happens is they have the big epic fight at the end and the Martin Luther King side wins and then there's the morality tale at the end that tells why.

02:45:30.000 So I actually think it was a movie that's an allegory that repudiates radicalism in favor of Martin Luther King's message.

02:45:40.000 And then the woke people went nuts for it.

02:45:42.000 Did you find that quote?

02:45:43.000 The full quote?

02:45:44.000 I got sidetracked with Black Panther stuff. 0.99

02:45:46.000 Oh, sorry.

02:45:47.000 It's a good movie.

02:45:48.000 I enjoyed it.

02:45:51.000 That part with a car.

02:45:53.000 I love that.

02:45:56.000 There it is.

02:46:25.000 We're good to go.

02:46:42.000 That's where it gets interesting.

02:46:43.000 See, I actually agree with that.

02:46:45.000 One of the things I've been saying for all along is that I'm actually against the social justice movement, the woke social justice movement, which is formally in the literature called critical social justice.

02:46:54.000 I'm against that because I am for social justice.

02:46:57.000 Actual.

02:46:58.000 Actual social justice.

02:46:59.000 If you want to solve those problems that he's talking about, you actually have to understand them.

02:47:04.000 You don't put wallpaper over the hole.

02:47:06.000 You actually have to understand them.

02:47:08.000 And if you just wallpaper over it, that's the delay.

02:47:10.000 Right.

02:47:11.000 Yes.

02:47:12.000 Yes.

02:47:12.000 And so you have to understand, like, what are the actual things contributing to these problems, creating these problems?

02:47:19.000 I don't know what the answers are.

02:47:20.000 I don't know what's causing them.

02:47:21.000 Maybe some of it is prejudice, some of it's discrimination, some of it's cultural discrimination, like not valuing each culture that, you know, cultural values the same way or whatever.

02:47:30.000 It's also the echoes of the suppressive past. 0.99

02:47:33.000 There's that.

02:47:34.000 Yeah, definitely.

02:47:35.000 You don't just come back from that, right?

02:47:38.000 Right.

02:47:38.000 What's the most – I mean, it's slavery.

02:47:40.000 Slavery, yeah.

02:47:40.000 The fact that slavery took place 150 years ago.

02:47:43.000 Right.

02:47:44.000 Well, even more recently, they're not wrong to bring up things like redlining and white flight and all these things that economically dispossessed. 0.92

02:47:52.000 That's within living memory.

02:47:55.000 Grandpappies and stuff are – that's them.

02:47:59.000 So the wealth – when they make the argument about accumulated wealth, what the average accumulated wealth of a white family versus the average accumulated wealth of a black family – There's something there, right? 0.95

02:48:08.000 We should expect that there's something there and we should be trying to understand that and then trying to figure out actual solutions to those problems, right?

02:48:16.000 But like when you take the analysis, say, of the guy who started critical race theory, his name is Derrick Bell, first African-American tenured professor at Harvard, Harvard Law, real pessimistic guy.

02:48:27.000 He actually said that the point of – he said that Brown versus Board of Education, which desegregated schools, …was done so that white people could feel better about themselves and then to open up black people to new problems like having to face discrimination in schools, like real pessimistic.

02:48:41.000 But in 1992, OK, get your head on 1992. In 1992, he wrote a book called Faces at the Bottom of the Well.

02:48:48.000 And what he said is that black society is a face at the bottom of the well and whites – he says right in the first page, even the poorest, most downtrodden, awful situation white person Always knows that they can have status by looking down at the face of the bottom of the wall. 0.63

02:49:04.000 Okay, I was in 1992. I was impoverishing my parents with Michael Jordan gear, right?

02:49:11.000 I'm not looking down to Michael Jordan.

02:49:13.000 In 1992...

02:49:16.000 Oprah Winfrey, Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, these were like the things, right?

02:49:20.000 Dave Chappelle is even doing a...

02:49:22.000 Like Oprah Winfrey had so much money.

02:49:23.000 Don't you think that they're outliers in a sense if you look at the way the culture treats black people in general as an idea?

02:49:31.000 But that's not what he said.

02:49:32.000 Right. 0.82

02:49:33.000 He said that all of black society is the face at the bottom of the well.

02:49:36.000 But he doesn't mean like entertainers and the tiniest.

02:49:40.000 That's how they get you.

02:49:42.000 They do mean what they say.

02:49:44.000 I have to take – after reading this stuff for so many years, I have to take them at their word.

02:49:48.000 And the game that they play is to play off of your – they can't really mean that instinct.

02:49:53.000 Derek Bell held the position that desegregating the schools was bad because it just allowed racism to maintain in another direction.

02:50:02.000 Derek Bell introduced a concept called interest convergence that says that any time – Any time black people get more rights, it was because it was also in the interests of white people, so it was actually an act of racism.

02:50:13.000 So if you become anti-racist, this is literal.

02:50:16.000 If you become anti-racist, there's books about this.

02:50:19.000 If you become anti-racist according to their demands for you to become anti-racist, that was in your best interest.

02:50:24.000 It turns you into a good white, a good white progressive or a good white liberal. 0.71

02:50:28.000 There are entire books.

02:50:30.000 There's a book by Shannon Sullivan, a major scholar, called Good White People that just rails on this. 0.93

02:50:35.000 Robin DiAngelo says that she thinks that white progressives and white liberals are the worst form of upholding white supremacy. 0.95

02:50:43.000 The worst form. 0.99

02:50:45.000 Because they don't believe that they're as racist as they actually are.

02:50:49.000 She says, in fact, that she defines a white progressive as somebody who thinks they're less racist or not racist. 0.92

02:50:55.000 And that's the worst kind of white supremacist. 0.95

02:50:57.000 So there's no escaping racism in her eyes. 0.99

02:51:00.000 None.

02:51:00.000 It's not a choice between anti-racism and racism.

02:51:03.000 It's a choice between anti-racism.

02:51:07.000 It's a choice between racists who will admit it and racists who are too fragile to admit it.

02:51:12.000 That's actually her theory.

02:51:14.000 And then because of this interest convergence thesis of Derrick Bell, which is at the core of critical race theory to this day, anything a white person does, according to the theory, I don't agree with this, anything a white person does To help a black person also raises their own moral standing and is therefore in their own interest and was therefore a racist act.

02:51:35.000 Whoa.

02:51:36.000 Whoa.

02:51:36.000 There's no getting out of that one.

02:51:38.000 So it's like – again, this is supposed to cause healing.

02:51:40.000 This is supposed to solve problems.

02:51:42.000 It says that the problem – I mean Derek Bell explicitly says on Faces Upon the Well that racism is permanent, that it cannot be fixed.

02:51:50.000 So what the hell are – I'm an optimist.

02:51:54.000 Why are we doing that?

02:51:55.000 Well, that's just one individual, right?

02:51:56.000 But did he have a solution that instead of desegregation, what was his alternative? 0.95

02:52:04.000 Well, his general alternative was to constantly wage a critical war against white people and whiteness. 0.93

02:52:10.000 Forever. 0.95

02:52:11.000 The way that they believe that white supremacy and whiteness can be taken out of society is to completely, in a full-on revolution, Remake society from the bottom up.

02:52:22.000 That's in their literature all over the place. 0.66

02:52:25.000 You can't get rid of whiteness until you get rid of all vestiges of white society. 1.00

02:52:29.000 And that level of revolution is what's inspiring these frickin' riots. 0.97

02:52:33.000 Do they know about him and his work or is this just a continuation of the idea?

02:52:38.000 Who's they?

02:52:39.000 The people that are involved in like Antifa.

02:52:41.000 Some of them would.

02:52:42.000 He's quite famous.

02:52:44.000 All of the scholars would.

02:52:45.000 Every critical race scholar would.

02:52:46.000 He is the founder of critical race theory.

02:52:49.000 He is the guy.

02:52:52.000 Barack Obama talked very positively about him.

02:52:55.000 I was a big fan of Obama still.

02:52:56.000 I'm a big fan of Obama, so I'm not like cracking on Obama to say that, but he was a big fan of Derrick Bell's.

02:53:02.000 I think maybe even Derrick Bell was one of Obama's teachers, but I don't know that for sure in his law work.

02:53:08.000 So again, I don't know that for sure, but they were definitely friends, and he definitely very publicly- He had some weird friends.

02:53:14.000 He was friends with one of those guys that was in The Weathermen.

02:53:17.000 Well, yeah, that's right.

02:53:18.000 Yeah.

02:53:21.000 They're not irrelevant to this either still.

02:53:24.000 Yeah.

02:53:25.000 But Derek Bell is central to critical race theory.

02:53:30.000 He's not just some guy.

02:53:31.000 Every scholar would know him.

02:53:33.000 Everybody – it's like the guy who's taking notes at church.

02:53:36.000 That person knows Derek Bell.

02:53:38.000 Derek Bell is that big of a figure.

02:53:41.000 Do you see this – Moving in any one particular direction?

02:53:46.000 Do you see it, like, with the retaking of Chaz, do you see things, like, dying off? 1.00

02:53:50.000 Do you see this as being non-sustainable?

02:53:53.000 I don't think it's sustainable.

02:53:54.000 It takes too much energy.

02:53:55.000 What I think it is, okay, so I've described it before pretty publicly as a Trojan horse.

02:53:59.000 So you know the story of the Trojan horse, right?

02:54:01.000 So they wheel up the horse and what's inside is assassins.

02:54:03.000 So they bring it in and they open up from the inside, come out, kill the guards, open the gate, and then the army can come through.

02:54:09.000 This is a Trojan horse full of bureaucrats.

02:54:11.000 So what they do is they go fill in administrations, and then they fill in HR departments, and then they start making policy changes at those levels so that everybody's stuck playing by their rules.

02:54:21.000 In a lot of cases, there aren't necessarily that many of them, and you actually can push them out.

02:54:27.000 It's not that many.

02:54:28.000 You could actually, in a lot of organizations, you will get sued.

02:54:31.000 They will bring a suit, and they'll fire you. 0.99

02:54:33.000 I get these emails from guys who run businesses.

02:54:36.000 I don't know if they're guys, actually, always.

02:54:37.000 Some of them aren't.

02:54:38.000 But the CEOs in particular, and they say, well, a lot of times they're just people in the office and you know how they are.

02:54:44.000 And so they come in and they ask for a promotion and you know they're going to make trouble if you don't give it to them.

02:54:48.000 So it's just easier to give it to them and kind of let them do the thing.

02:54:52.000 And it's like, We really need to stop getting bullied.

02:54:57.000 Do you think that part of this, the movement, and why it's so, like, with Antifa in particular, and the looting and all the craziness in the streets, because people aren't working, so it's like there's so many more people that have the time to do this.

02:55:11.000 And so it really refuels, it's like dry wood on a fire.

02:55:15.000 That's right.

02:55:15.000 I think that's part of it.

02:55:16.000 I mean, I think the conditions at the moment are particularly...

02:55:20.000 Good for having manifested this to the level that it manifested in reality.

02:55:24.000 I'm worried it's going to stoke the fire of racism in a lot of people.

02:55:29.000 I mean...

02:55:30.000 The people that were on the fence or that were racist that maybe could be coaxed over to a more reasonable position will now be upset.

02:55:38.000 I think that...

02:55:39.000 I think that's right.

02:55:40.000 There's a real fear of it.

02:55:41.000 If you just tell people that they're racist no matter what, some of them are just going to accept it.

02:55:45.000 But there's no way out.

02:55:46.000 Now, I will tell you, I am friends with people from all over the spectrum, right?

02:55:50.000 Except woke.

02:55:51.000 They've now all written me off.

02:55:53.000 And I have some pretty far right wing friends.

02:55:56.000 They are not racists by any normal definition of the word.

02:56:01.000 But of course, under woke, they have to be because everybody is.

02:56:05.000 They are saying things like the word racist doesn't mean anything to me anymore.

02:56:10.000 But that doesn't mean I'm going to be racist.

02:56:12.000 I'm going to just keep acting the way that I was acting, which is not racist.

02:56:17.000 But if somebody calls me racist, it doesn't mean anything to me anymore.

02:56:20.000 I'm just going to keep acting the way I was acting.

02:56:22.000 I already wasn't racist.

02:56:23.000 I'm just going to keep going.

02:56:24.000 And they're basically going to try to just step out of the language game.

02:56:28.000 I don't think most people will do that, but there will be a contingent, and this is where your fears are valid, where that's going to happen.

02:56:34.000 But some of them are going to grab onto that identity and they're going to latch onto it.

02:56:39.000 And of course, what does the theory say?

02:56:42.000 Critical race theory says that everybody's a racist and is just hiding it under a mask.

02:56:47.000 And so if they start acting racist, they're, oh, they were racist all along.

02:56:52.000 And they do this to people in their jobs.

02:56:54.000 I know people who disagree with woke stuff who have applied for jobs.

02:56:59.000 And there's these professional forums and then people set it up and they say, we're going to, you know, he's associated with this or associated with that.

02:57:06.000 So we can't hire him, make sure he's not going to get an academic job.

02:57:09.000 And I've actually seen screenshots people sent me of the texts where the point is that we make sure he can't get an academic job.

02:57:16.000 So he has to take a job with some right wing outlet.

02:57:18.000 Then we call him a conservative and he's done.

02:57:20.000 Oh, Jesus Christ.

02:57:22.000 Right. 1.00

02:57:23.000 And it's like at some point you just realize, oh, this is bullshit. 1.00

02:57:26.000 And then once you realize it's bullshit, you're sort of free of it. 1.00

02:57:29.000 Well, what you realize is it actually is a culture war. 0.99

02:57:33.000 Correct.

02:57:34.000 It really is.

02:57:35.000 I don't know.

02:57:36.000 One of my more controversial beliefs right now is that we might actually be in a second civil war already in the sense, though, that it's being fought in information and in culture, not in...

02:57:49.000 Not in hot war.

02:57:51.000 Which one's the union?

02:57:53.000 The liberals, not left and right Democrat, Republican, but the people who believe in what the Constitution is.

02:58:00.000 Actual free speech.

02:58:01.000 Yeah.

02:58:01.000 Free discourse.

02:58:03.000 Correct.

02:58:03.000 Yeah, but there's not that many of them.

02:58:05.000 Or if they are, they're being silent.

02:58:06.000 I think there are actually a lot of them, and they're being silenced.

02:58:10.000 Silenced is the right word, right?

02:58:12.000 They are being silenced.

02:58:13.000 They're afraid to speak up, and I know because they email me and tell me things like, I have a fake account that I follow you on Twitter or I come and look at your Twitter but I can't follow you.

02:58:23.000 I can't like your stuff.

02:58:25.000 I get offers to write things sometimes and then they get taken back because I'm like too controversial or something.

02:58:30.000 Where I get really cynical is when I see corporations go woke.

02:58:33.000 And I'm like, you guys aren't doing this because you're ethical people.

02:58:37.000 You're doing this because this is where the profit is.

02:58:39.000 That's where the money is.

02:58:40.000 So now we've found my fourth and fifth Black Lives Matter, right? 0.52

02:58:43.000 So I said there were five.

02:58:44.000 Yeah.

02:58:45.000 Number four is the Antifa guys.

02:58:46.000 Number five is the woke.

02:58:47.000 Woke Black Lives Matter. 1.00

02:58:48.000 Sorry, corporate.

02:58:50.000 Corporate Black Lives Matter.

02:58:51.000 Corporate Black Lives Matter is...

02:58:54.000 I mean capitalism always wins.

02:58:57.000 But they're going to go where they see the least liability and where they see the most likelihood to generate profit.

02:59:07.000 I mean I'm not going to say that I don't support capitalism in general but I don't support the exploitation of a movement based in pain and fear to sell t-shirts or shoes or whatever else.

02:59:22.000 Yeah, that's what gets really weird.

02:59:25.000 And again, this is the cynical part of me, admittedly.

02:59:28.000 But I see what they're doing and I don't believe them.

02:59:33.000 Anytime a corporation is putting out some sort of a message, I think that they're thinking about their bottom line.

02:59:37.000 And I think there's a good side of that and a bad side.

02:59:39.000 There's a cynical side and there's also the side that money is one of those neutral things.

02:59:43.000 Like Michael Jordan has that documentary just came out recently about him.

02:59:48.000 And one of the things they show in that is where he got pushed into some – make a statement about something or another.

02:59:54.000 And he quoted – I don't remember the exact quote, but it's like conservatives buy shoes too.

02:59:58.000 Yes.

02:59:59.000 So it's like there's an equalizer there.

03:00:00.000 And people are mad at him for that.

03:00:01.000 They got really mad at him and they're mad at him again for that.

03:00:03.000 But there's an equalizer there, right?

03:00:05.000 Money doesn't care what color you are. 1.00

03:00:07.000 And so there's an equalizer side.

03:00:09.000 But corporations are there to make money. 0.85

03:00:13.000 That's their point.

03:00:14.000 And so they're going to go whichever direction seems to work that way.

03:00:17.000 What I would urge...

03:00:18.000 Any corporation people out there watching right now to consider is that there will be litigation attempted in the other direction.

03:00:26.000 And you may be opening yourself up to liability in the attempt to avoid liability.

03:00:29.000 So, you know, weigh your options more carefully. 0.98

03:00:32.000 God damn it, James. 1.00

03:00:33.000 God damn it. 1.00

03:00:35.000 Is there anything else you want to go over before we get out of here? 0.99

03:00:38.000 I think we're at, like, the three-hour mark, aren't we?

03:00:40.000 Yeah.

03:00:41.000 What could we say that would, like, absolutely end both of our careers so we can just...

03:00:44.000 I think you already did it.

03:00:44.000 So we can go, like, Thelma and Louise into the canyon...

03:00:48.000 I don't think it's going to end our careers because I think one of the things that is very important for people like you and people like me now is to be that person who points things out that are logical and reasonable and when you hear your words, you know,

03:01:03.000 well, you're not a bigot.

03:01:04.000 You're not a racist.

03:01:05.000 You're not a sexist.

03:01:06.000 You're not homophobic.

03:01:07.000 You're not transphobic.

03:01:08.000 You're just a person using logic and you're standing up to this ideology that seems to avoid any and all criticism.

03:01:17.000 That's right.

03:01:17.000 And it does so like a religion.

03:01:20.000 That's right.

03:01:20.000 And that's what's dangerous about it is because we have these religious tendencies.

03:01:24.000 We have these fundamentalist, ideological tendencies to adopt a particular pattern of thinking and behavior and to stick with it without deviation because if you do, you'll be ostracized.

03:01:36.000 And that's what you're seeing with woke culture.

03:01:38.000 That's right.

03:01:39.000 So, you know, you bring up religion again and forgiveness too, right?

03:01:43.000 Yes.

03:01:43.000 You learn from your mistakes.

03:01:45.000 This is horrifying me that teenagers are calling each other out and these cancel whatever the hell they're doing.

03:01:51.000 It's like, no, you have to be allowed to make mistakes.

03:01:54.000 You have to be allowed to mess up and grow from that and then be acknowledged for having gone through that and grown.

03:02:00.000 That's so important for people to realize.

03:02:02.000 It's key to life.

03:02:03.000 It's not even just key to society.

03:02:05.000 It's key to life.

03:02:06.000 That's a beautiful way to end this.

03:02:07.000 Thank you, sir.

03:02:08.000 And your book, Cynical Theories, is available right now.

03:02:12.000 Helen Pluckrose, the second most English woman's name on the planet.

03:02:15.000 That's right.

03:02:15.000 And the other one is?

03:02:16.000 Her daughter.

03:02:17.000 What's hers? 0.99

03:02:18.000 Lucy.

03:02:18.000 Lucy Pluckrose.

03:02:19.000 That's some seriously Harry Potter type shit. 0.99

03:02:23.000 And James Lindsay, right there. 0.99

03:02:25.000 And you can follow James on Twitter.

03:02:26.000 I highly recommend it.

03:02:28.000 He's one of my best follows.

03:02:29.000 I appreciate you very much.

03:02:31.000 Thanks, Jeff.

03:02:31.000 Thank you.

03:02:32.000 Thank you for being here.

03:02:33.000 Goodbye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - July 02, 2020

Joe Rogan Experience #1501 - James Lindsay

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Transcript