The Joe Rogan Experience - July 16, 2020


Joe Rogan Experience #1509 - Abigail Shrier

Topics
online Virtue Signal teenage girls and social media contagion testosterone dangers gender dysphoria teenage girls transitioning gender dysphoria trans women athletics women's rights disappearing transition and suicide contagion gender ideology curriculum indoctrination sports teenage boys gender dysphoria gender transition activism Irreversible Damage
Hosted by
Joe Rogan
Guests
Abigail Shrier
Mentioned
Lisa Littman Lana Del Rey Abigail Martina Navratilova Jonathan Haidt Chris Everett Buck Angel Lady Gaga Mary Mike Lee Daniel Kravitz Khloe Kardashian Serena Williams Douglas Murray Caitlyn Jenner Ray Blanchard Jesus Christ LeBron James Allison Felix Yoel Romero and 13 more
Joe Rogan Experience #1508 - Peter Schiff Joe Rogan Experience #1510 - George Knapp & Jeremy Corbell

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 45 minutes

Words per minute

179.72

Word count

18,940

Sentence count

1,869

Harmful content

Misogyny

110

sentences flagged

Toxicity

135

sentences flagged

Hate speech

88

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Author and journalist Abigail Adams joins Betsy and Amanda to discuss the controversial topic of transgender teens and their impact on the culture and the way we view them. She talks about her new book, Irreversible Damage: How Teenage Girls Are Seduced by the Trans Craze, and why she thinks it s a big deal. She also talks about the effects of hormones and surgeries on teenage girls and how they affect their mental health, and why it s so important to address the issue of trans teens and the effects they have on our perception of them as "not good enough" or "not enough at all." And she explains why she believes it s important to talk about it at all, even if it s not a hot button issue for her own daughters. This episode was produced by Annie-Rose Strasser and edited by Rachel Goodman. Additional editing and production by Alex Blumberg. Our theme song was written and performed by Haley Shaw. Our ad music was made by Mark Phillips and our ad music is by Ian Dorsch. We were mixed by Matthew Boll. We are a production of Gimlet Media and produced by Ben Koppel. We have good sound design and editing assistance from Matthew Boll, and our editing and mixing was provided by Matt Knott, with additional mixing and mastering by Matt Newell Williams, and additional editing by Matthew Keyser, and a little help from Matthew Kuchins, and Rachel Ward, and music by Ben Kotnik, and Sarah Abdurrahman, and Matthew Herndon, and Bobby Lord, and Ben Kuchinsk, and Jack Williams, for this episode was edited and mixed by Rachel Barnard, and Alex Ward, for the music in this episode. . Thanks to our sponsor, Kaitlyn DeKorte for producing the music for the intro and outro music and background music, and for the sound design, and editing, and thanks to our mixing and mixing, and mastering of the background music by Bobby Lord for the score and editing by Jeff Perla, for our score and mixing by Rachel Ward for the mixing and sound design by Matthew McElroy, and the editing and editing and mastering, and Jeff Perlan for the background score, and also for the mastering and mastering and editing for the ambiance at this episode, and thank you for the editing by Andrew Wyderrowski for our mastering and mixing and editing at the mixing of the sound effects, and so much more.

Transcript

Transcripts from "The Joe Rogan Experience" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:01.000 Hello, Abigail.
00:00:02.000 How are you?
00:00:03.000 I'm doing great.
00:00:03.000 How are you?
00:00:04.000 Thanks for doing this.
00:00:04.000 Appreciate it.
00:00:05.000 Thanks so much for having me on. 0.88
00:00:07.000 Irreversible damage, the transgender craze seducing our daughters. 1.00
00:00:12.000 Boy, that's a hot-button subject, right? 0.81
00:00:16.000 This is a minefield.
00:00:18.000 It shouldn't be, though.
00:00:19.000 No?
00:00:19.000 It really shouldn't be.
00:00:21.000 No, it shouldn't be.
00:00:22.000 But so I think we should probably establish some things like up front, right?
00:00:28.000 Some people surely as adults are transgender.
00:00:33.000 Of course.
00:00:33.000 Yes.
00:00:34.000 Of course.
00:00:34.000 I interviewed a lot of them.
00:00:35.000 And we fully support that.
00:00:38.000 Absolutely.
00:00:39.000 Okay.
00:00:39.000 I have friends who fall into that category.
00:00:42.000 Your concern is about...
00:00:45.000 Very young children.
00:00:46.000 Teenage girls.
00:00:47.000 Teenage girls.
00:00:47.000 Has nothing to do with adults who are transgender, okay?
00:00:52.000 Many of whom are amazing people.
00:00:54.000 They, you know, went through mental health, you know, therapy, and they decided, they made these decisions.
00:01:00.000 They suffered with discomfort in their bodies from the time they were young.
00:01:03.000 And as adults, they made a decision to transition, fully support them, has nothing to do with my book.
00:01:09.000 What...
00:01:24.000 I think it's supposed to evoke what we've lost in our career.
00:01:30.000 A whole generation.
00:01:32.000 What is that?
00:01:33.000 I assume her uterus. 0.99
00:01:35.000 Infertility.
00:01:36.000 Looks like a pillow.
00:01:37.000 Oh, infertility.
00:01:39.000 Yeah, that's what happens.
00:01:40.000 I mean, I got involved in this.
00:01:42.000 This wasn't a personal issue for me.
00:01:43.000 In fact, it was an issue originally I thought I was going to avoid.
00:01:46.000 A reader wrote to me.
00:01:48.000 I write most often for The Wall Street Journal.
00:01:49.000 And a reader wrote to me and she said, listen, I've tried to get every mainstream journalist to pick this up.
00:01:53.000 No one will touch it.
00:01:54.000 But my daughter got caught up in this.
00:01:56.000 All of a sudden, she went off to college.
00:01:57.000 All of a sudden, with her friends, she had a lot of mental health issues, anxiety, depression.
00:02:01.000 And all of a sudden, with her group of friends, they all decided they're trans.
00:02:04.000 And she went on hormones. 0.53
00:02:06.000 And this is happening to parents all across the country.
00:02:08.000 Teenage girls all of a sudden deciding with their friends that they're trans, wanting surgeries and hormones and getting them. 0.90
00:02:15.000 And at first I thought, I don't need this.
00:02:17.000 And so I tried to get another journalist to take it up, a real investigative reporter.
00:02:21.000 I'm not.
00:02:22.000 I'm an opinion journalist usually.
00:02:23.000 You know, that's what I've done.
00:02:25.000 And I couldn't get someone to take it up.
00:02:27.000 Because it's such a minefield.
00:02:31.000 Yeah, because it's a minefield, because for some reason the activists who are not representative of transgender adults that I've met at all, but the activists had convinced the world that because, you know, they object to anyone's transition being questioned,
00:02:49.000 we can't talk about a mental health issue facing teenage girls.
00:02:52.000 Now, I've heard...
00:02:56.000 There's an issue with some teenage girls who are on the spectrum who wind up getting sort of roped into this idea that that's what's wrong with them.
00:03:06.000 Is that one of the things you cover in your book?
00:03:08.000 Yeah, I actually don't deal with that specifically very much.
00:03:12.000 And the reason is that's a whole book in and of itself.
00:03:15.000 Because it is true that a lot of girls who are high-functioning autistic, and I did interview some experts in autism, and that's when I realized that's a book of its own, which is that a lot of girls who are high-functioning autistic, you know, they tend to fixate.
00:03:30.000 And they are particularly susceptible to fixating on the idea that they might be a boy when it's introduced to them.
00:03:38.000 So, yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about.
00:03:40.000 And they are one part of this phenomenon, but they're a big part.
00:03:43.000 So the teenage girl part, so you're talking about teenage girls that are susceptible to influence?
00:03:51.000 Are you talking about teenage girls that are confused?
00:03:54.000 Like, why are there so many teenage girls that are going wrong? 0.97
00:03:58.000 In this direction, like what do you think is happening?
00:04:00.000 So these are the same girls that would have been anorexic, they would have been bulimic, and they would have been the high anxiety, very precocious girls, but they don't really fit in.
00:04:09.000 They come to high school and they don't have friends, they don't have a clique for them.
00:04:12.000 And they're so smart and they're so lonely because they're on the internet all the time and they're with mom all the time.
00:04:18.000 And they don't fit in at school.
00:04:19.000 And this is a way to understand their pain that they're really feeling.
00:04:25.000 They're in pain, but they decide that their problem is that they're supposed to be a boy and the fix is testosterone.
00:04:33.000 So, you heard of this problem.
00:04:35.000 You knew of people that their children were going through this.
00:04:39.000 And how long did it take you before you decided to commit to pen to paper on this?
00:04:44.000 So, I spent maybe a month or so just hearing the reports of the parents and reading the original study.
00:04:50.000 There's an original study that the book is...
00:04:53.000 Jumps off from, which is the Lisa Littman paper at Brown University, she's a public health researcher who looked into this, and she found that there was all of a sudden this huge epidemic in America of teenage girls deciding they were trans with their friends after social media emerging and pushing for hormones and surgeries.
00:05:11.000 Have you had a conversation about this with someone who's a trans activist that says, well, maybe what's really going on, I mean, I'm just taking the argument of it, Maybe what's going on is there are a lot of trans women and there would be more or there's a lot of women who would turn trans become a man there would be more But they never had that door open to them before.
00:05:33.000 And that maybe there's more trans people than we think.
00:05:36.000 Amazing.
00:05:36.000 Amazing.
00:05:37.000 So it's a great point.
00:05:38.000 And I thought about it because I've, you know, I tried to look.
00:05:40.000 I'm a journalist.
00:05:41.000 I like to look at ideas in both sides.
00:05:43.000 I didn't have, like, I did not have a dog in this race.
00:05:45.000 So let me tell you three reasons I don't think that's compelling.
00:05:48.000 Number one, when Lisa Littman looked at the prevalence rate, she found that it's 70 times what we would expect within a friend group, which means it's highly concentrated in groups of friends.
00:06:00.000 But there's two other reasons.
00:06:01.000 So we wouldn't expect that if it were randomly distributed among the population.
00:06:05.000 But there are two other reasons I don't think that's right.
00:06:07.000 Number one, if we're just revert to normal now that there's greater societal acceptance, say we're just reverting to a normal base rate of transgender women.
00:06:18.000 Why are all the women in their 40s and 60s coming out as trans? 1.00
00:06:22.000 They should be coming out.
00:06:23.000 Now's their time.
00:06:24.000 Now's their moment.
00:06:25.000 We should see tons of women in their 40s and 60s and so on coming out as transgender.
00:06:29.000 We're not seeing that.
00:06:30.000 We're seeing the same population that gets involved in cutting, demonic possession, witchcraft, anorexia bulimia, and convinces themselves there's a problem.
00:06:40.000 And there's one – anyway, there's one last reason is that suicide rates are going up.
00:06:46.000 But if these women who were living under a prior – you know, supposedly these – all these transgender, these real transgender people who are living under a more repressive regime and are now just finding themselves, you would think the suicide rate would be going down with greater acceptance.
00:07:01.000 So when you're saying suicide rates are going up, you mean suicide rates with teens who turn trans?
00:07:06.000 Both.
00:07:07.000 The rate of suicide among this population, first of all, among girls in general, is extraordinarily high.
00:07:14.000 This is just one part of the mental health crisis they're in.
00:07:17.000 And second of all, we know that the rate that these kids, these trans-identified kids, have very high rates of suicide, suicidal ideation.
00:07:25.000 It's really, you know, an area of real concern.
00:07:28.000 Well, there's definitely an area of real concern as well with social media.
00:07:33.000 Did you read Jonathan Haidt's book, The Coddling of the American Mind?
00:07:37.000 Yeah, and it was on your show that I really like this light bulb went on when I rewatched it because he talked about exactly this.
00:07:45.000 He connects it to social media and he talked about on your show the huge rates we're seeing and anxiety, depression, all among these same girls.
00:07:55.000 And, you know, putting it together with Lisa Littman's research and the other investigation I'd done I think it's really pretty clear that one more manifestation of these girls who we know are involved in a lot of cutting and all kinds of self-harm, this is one form of self-harm for them.
00:08:09.000 So let's essentially say there's young teenagers that are confused and they're looking for something that makes them feel whole or something that makes them feel normal or something that gives them some sort of an escape from this angst that they suffer from.
00:08:27.000 And you're thinking that turning trans is one of those pathways that they gravitate towards, but it might not necessarily be a good idea for them.
00:08:37.000 Yeah, that's exactly right.
00:08:38.000 If these girls were transitioning to boys and they were living great lives and their mental health was great, like it is for so many transgender adults, I wouldn't have written this book. 1.00
00:08:47.000 That's a great story.
00:08:48.000 But is it great for so many transgender adults?
00:08:51.000 Because even in transgender adults, the suicide rate is very high.
00:08:54.000 There's no question and that's a separate issue but I do think that – yeah, I agree.
00:09:00.000 I think that there are – I personally believe that there are transgender adults who have been helped by transition.
00:09:05.000 Sure.
00:09:05.000 But these girls are not being helped by transition.
00:09:07.000 Just universally?
00:09:09.000 I think as a population, yeah.
00:09:10.000 I mean, that's what Lisa Littman's study showed.
00:09:13.000 But also through my investigation, you know, I hear from – I interview a lot of parents.
00:09:17.000 I also interview transgender youth.
00:09:19.000 And they, you know, they'll tell you their anxiety is a mess, their depression is a mess.
00:09:24.000 Transition is not curing these girls. 1.00
00:09:26.000 They drop out of school.
00:09:27.000 They cut off their families.
00:09:29.000 They're not living a great life.
00:09:31.000 Yeah.
00:09:31.000 It's such a strange call, right?
00:09:34.000 I don't mean strange in a negative way.
00:09:39.000 I mean you're dealing with hormones in a human body.
00:09:44.000 Like you're taking a woman and you're injecting hormones into her body and you're saying that these exogenous hormones are what's going to fix her. 0.97
00:09:54.000 And I never understand that.
00:09:56.000 This is my argument about this.
00:09:59.000 How do we know?
00:10:00.000 How do you know that that's what's going to do it?
00:10:03.000 And when you are doing that, what damage is being done?
00:10:08.000 It's one thing if someone's a 25-year-old woman and they say, I have always wanted to be a man, and I think I'm a man.
00:10:14.000 I think I'm born in the wrong body.
00:10:17.000 But when you're going through this developmental cycle from 17, 18, 19, 20, there is a lot of chaos.
00:10:24.000 There's a lot of hormonal chaos.
00:10:26.000 There's a lot of confusion.
00:10:28.000 I don't think there's anything specifically that you can point to that could say some sort of an intervention chemically.
00:10:35.000 Some sort of, if you just step in now and start injecting this body with male hormones, this is going to fix all your problems. 0.99
00:10:42.000 But yet it's really popular to do that.
00:10:44.000 It's really popular.
00:10:45.000 These girls are getting it on their own diagnosis. 1.00
00:10:47.000 So they're just going in and self-diagnosing.
00:10:50.000 Nobody questions it.
00:10:50.000 We now have informed consent, which means you walk into Planned Parenthood, you sign a waiver, you decide you have gender dysphoria, you walk out that day with testosterone.
00:10:59.000 Planned Parenthood is doing this?
00:11:01.000 Yeah, it's one of the biggest distributors.
00:11:02.000 So you don't have to have some sort of a long, some transitional therapy session with a...
00:11:10.000 You can get your breasts removed with no therapist note. 1.00
00:11:15.000 Whoa.
00:11:16.000 So you could be a confused 18-year-old girl and walk into a Planned Parenthood self-diagnosing with no therapy at all and they'll prescribe testosterone and you can get your breast removed? 0.99
00:11:29.000 Absolutely.
00:11:30.000 You sign a form.
00:11:32.000 Oh, wait, wait, wait. 0.97
00:11:33.000 You can't get your breasts removed at Planned Parenthood, though. 1.00
00:11:35.000 Sorry. 0.97
00:11:35.000 No, we didn't say that. 0.97
00:11:36.000 You can also get your breasts removed from, yeah, surgeons. 1.00
00:11:39.000 Some of them require a therapist's note.
00:11:42.000 I interviewed them in my book.
00:11:43.000 Some who do not.
00:11:44.000 And, you know, there are both kinds.
00:11:47.000 Jesus.
00:11:49.000 That's a big decision, right?
00:11:50.000 That's a decision that you can't really come back from.
00:11:55.000 What do the – have you talked to surgeons about this?
00:11:58.000 What do they think?
00:11:59.000 They think that – Obviously, we're generalizing.
00:12:02.000 Right.
00:12:02.000 So they think a couple of things.
00:12:04.000 I mean obviously there are a lot of surgeons who refuse to do it.
00:12:06.000 So I interviewed them as well.
00:12:08.000 They say you don't destroy the biological function.
00:12:10.000 Like I didn't become a doctor to destroy someone's biological function for something that they've decided they have without even any oversight or – But the ones who do it say, look, this population is really desperate for surgery.
00:12:24.000 It's a civil rights issue.
00:12:26.000 I, you know, if I'm, you know, I'm giving them what they what will seem to bring them comfort seems to bring them comfort.
00:12:34.000 The problem is that there's no like follow up to see how their mental health is afterwards.
00:12:39.000 The surgeon is basically a mechanic, right?
00:12:41.000 They just remove the tires and send you on your way.
00:12:44.000 Yeah, the problem is we're not cars, right?
00:12:47.000 It's all connected.
00:12:48.000 So unfortunately, very often, the mental health deteriorates.
00:12:51.000 I mean, I talked to one young woman, Desmond, who's amazing, and she decided in high school she was trans.
00:12:58.000 She got celebrated everywhere.
00:13:00.000 Her teachers, her...
00:13:02.000 Therapist told her, yeah, you're definitely a man.
00:13:04.000 You're supposed to be a man.
00:13:05.000 Affirmed her everywhere she went.
00:13:07.000 She got on testosterone and it caused uterine cramping, which can happen. 1.00
00:13:12.000 It's one of the many bad side effects of testosterone.
00:13:15.000 She had to have a hysterectomy. 0.99
00:13:16.000 So at 21, she wakes up with a hysterectomy.
00:13:20.000 And she realized this whole thing had been a giant mistake.
00:13:23.000 Her mental health had not improved at all and this was a huge like mistake and path she had gone on and all of a sudden she didn't know what to do.
00:13:31.000 There was no one cheering her on anymore.
00:13:34.000 Why do you think people get cheered on for this decision?
00:13:39.000 I think in America we have a weakness for anything that gets cloaked in civil rights and part of that is very noble and good. 0.92
00:13:46.000 Obviously the civil rights movement was extremely important in our country and extremely valuable and valorous.
00:13:55.000 But now anything that's called a civil rights issue, you can't question.
00:13:59.000 So I interview parents and they'll tell me they're almost all politically progressive.
00:14:04.000 Most of the parents I call me are politically progressive and I interviewed almost five dozen of them now.
00:14:09.000 And they'll tell me, like, I support LGBTQ, but I really – I'm not sure this is right for my daughter. 1.00
00:14:15.000 Like, I don't think she's really gender dysphoric. 0.56
00:14:18.000 She's getting worse.
00:14:18.000 Like, what is going on here?
00:14:20.000 And I'll say to them, would you take away her binder?
00:14:23.000 Binder is that compression garment they wear to flatten their breasts. 0.92
00:14:26.000 And they'll say to me, oh, I can't do that.
00:14:28.000 I mean, I support LGBTQ and whatnot.
00:14:31.000 And I'll say to her – sometimes I'll say to them, would you give her cigarettes?
00:14:35.000 Why don't you give her cigarettes? 1.00
00:14:37.000 Because a binder will deform breast tissue. 1.00
00:14:40.000 It can cause rib cracking.
00:14:41.000 It can cause shortness of breath.
00:14:44.000 I wasn't aware of these binders.
00:14:46.000 So this is something like a corset.
00:14:48.000 Yeah, right.
00:14:49.000 So it makes them look like a man.
00:14:50.000 So it's got to squash.
00:14:51.000 And if you're a big-breasted woman, it's going to squash even harder. 1.00
00:14:55.000 I mean, it's going to really try to flatten you to give you the appearance of a male physique.
00:14:59.000 But it's just an appearance thing?
00:15:01.000 So that's just an appearance thing.
00:15:03.000 16-year-old girls don't usually go straight to top surgery. 1.00
00:15:06.000 They start with a binder.
00:15:08.000 You know, 13, 14-year-olds.
00:15:10.000 So do you think that something about—people are really susceptible to praise, right?
00:15:15.000 When they lean towards love and they lean towards anything that celebrates their actions.
00:15:21.000 It's real common.
00:15:22.000 I mean, you see it with artists and sometimes for the worst, right?
00:15:27.000 You see it with comedians, which is my general area of expertise when it comes to this.
00:15:33.000 You see Sometimes a comic will do something, particularly online, and then they get sort of celebrated for that, and then they start doing a lot of it.
00:15:42.000 And it seems just ingenuous and weird, but they're like fishing for love.
00:15:46.000 And you see it with social media, in particular with people.
00:15:49.000 I mean, this is a lot of what happens with social justice warriors and online virtue signaling, right?
00:15:54.000 They're trying to get this reaction from people.
00:15:57.000 So if someone comes out as trans and everyone celebrates, if perhaps they're a little confused, And they come out as trans and no one says anything.
00:16:06.000 And then they're just sort of, they have to sit and think about it for themselves.
00:16:09.000 That's one way.
00:16:10.000 But if someone comes out as trans and everybody says, that's amazing, that's amazing.
00:16:14.000 They want that feeling of that's amazing.
00:16:16.000 That's exactly right.
00:16:17.000 So I talk about this in my book.
00:16:18.000 I remember this young woman, Benji.
00:16:20.000 I think?
00:16:39.000 And everybody congratulated her.
00:16:41.000 This is a girl who was lonely.
00:16:42.000 Everyone was telling her, you know, I'm so proud of you.
00:16:47.000 I'm there for you.
00:16:47.000 I'm your glitter family.
00:16:49.000 And a lot of them were adults.
00:16:50.000 And lo and behold, all of a sudden they start asking for things, like pictures.
00:16:56.000 Right.
00:16:57.000 And I talked to transgender adults, like I talked to this, I interviewed this trans woman, Crystal, in my book, who was, you know, very, very nice.
00:17:05.000 I interviewed her and she made the decision as an adult to transition.
00:17:09.000 And she said to me, it was biological man, now a woman.
00:17:12.000 And she said to me, you know, when Caitlin happened, it was a nightmare for me because I had been going wrong in my job.
00:17:20.000 I know I didn't look perfectly like a woman, but I felt comfortable.
00:17:23.000 Like I wasn't – now I had people crossing the street to hug me.
00:17:27.000 She said it was embarrassing.
00:17:29.000 Like I had people in restaurants stopping to celebrate me.
00:17:32.000 Yeah.
00:17:34.000 Well, it's on one hand, see, this is where I'm torn.
00:17:37.000 Because on one hand, if you are trans and you do feel better about this, but you confuse how people are going to react, and then all of a sudden people are celebrating you like, yes, this is great.
00:17:46.000 I love the idea of an accepting society and people are open, loving, and happy that someone is making this transition.
00:17:54.000 But on the other hand, I'm very aware of the influence of the masses and of just people's love and praise.
00:18:01.000 It can shift you one way or another.
00:18:04.000 I mean, it's like a classic scene in a movie, right?
00:18:07.000 Where there's a boy who doesn't want to get involved in manly things, but his dad's like, come on, son, I want you to do it.
00:18:12.000 And he just does it for his dad, but then he feels bad about it.
00:18:15.000 Like, that's classic.
00:18:16.000 Human beings are so malleable.
00:18:18.000 We're so easily influenced.
00:18:20.000 That's exactly right.
00:18:21.000 And that's what people miss.
00:18:22.000 Like, teenage girls, they can convince themselves of lots of things because they're going through a hard time, right?
00:18:27.000 Puberty is hard.
00:18:29.000 Not having boys like you.
00:18:30.000 And now you had social media.
00:18:32.000 They don't have a chance at looking like these Facetune celebrities or even their Facetune friends.
00:18:37.000 Right.
00:18:38.000 So they feel terrible about themselves.
00:18:40.000 That is one of the things that Jonathan Haidt talked about in terms of social media, like the comparison of each other.
00:18:45.000 And what you're talking about, Facetune, is perfect, too.
00:18:50.000 I don't know if you're...
00:18:52.000 Which one was it?
00:18:53.000 Chloe?
00:18:54.000 The face one?
00:18:56.000 Okay.
00:18:57.000 Khloe Kardashian took a photo and put it on Instagram, and it's not her.
00:19:01.000 I mean, it's just not her.
00:19:02.000 It's not her face.
00:19:03.000 And a friend of mine, she sent this to me. 0.99
00:19:06.000 She's like, what the fuck is going on? 0.88
00:19:07.000 And she showed me that while they had photoshopped her photo, they had accidentally removed part of her chain. 0.98
00:19:16.000 So she had a chain on, like a thin chain.
00:19:19.000 She had the pendant, but the right side of the chain is missing because they had these wacky photo filters, and they reshaped her face.
00:19:25.000 And it's like...
00:19:26.000 It's not her.
00:19:27.000 Right.
00:19:27.000 So if you're a kid and you look like Chloe, what she used to look like is kind of a little bit awkward.
00:19:33.000 You think you're ugly. 0.98
00:19:34.000 Yeah. 0.72
00:19:34.000 And then all of a sudden she looks like someone who's an anime character, like the perfect woman, you know, in terms of like society's beauty standards. 0.72
00:19:42.000 And that's not even really what she looks like. 0.99
00:19:45.000 So if you're a kid and you're looking at yourself in the mirror and you're looking at this picture of her, you're like, fuck! 0.99
00:19:49.000 What do I have to do? 1.00
00:19:51.000 How do I look like that?
00:19:52.000 Why do I look like this?
00:19:53.000 I hate myself.
00:19:55.000 That's exactly what happens.
00:19:56.000 Girls in your class put Facetune photos up.
00:19:59.000 So you stare, you sit there, and you're like, I'm not as pretty.
00:20:02.000 Oh my god, she's got ten times the number of friends' likes that I have or whatever.
00:20:06.000 I love that expression, Facetuned.
00:20:08.000 I've never heard that before.
00:20:10.000 It's like auto-tune for your voice, right?
00:20:12.000 Exactly.
00:20:12.000 Facetune.
00:20:14.000 Yeah, that comparison thing is so strange.
00:20:17.000 It's really weird that people do that.
00:20:19.000 These filters that they use, and it's very strange.
00:20:23.000 I mean, look at Lana Del Rey, right?
00:20:24.000 She came out with an audio book last week, and she went to celebrate it on social media.
00:20:29.000 She posted a picture.
00:20:30.000 And the first comment on it is, you look fat.
00:20:35.000 So young girls see that, and they think they don't have a chance.
00:20:38.000 This is one of the most streamed female recording artists ever, right?
00:20:44.000 Beautiful woman, you look fat, is the first comment. 1.00
00:20:47.000 Well, that's a troll, you know, right? 0.95
00:20:50.000 She's not fat. 0.86
00:20:51.000 Is Lana Del Rey, did she get fat? 1.00
00:20:52.000 No, she's not fat, but I'm just saying.
00:20:54.000 Did she get a little heavy?
00:20:55.000 I don't know.
00:20:56.000 I haven't kept up on her weight.
00:20:57.000 Let me see what Lana Del Rey looks like. 1.00
00:20:58.000 Let me see that picture.
00:21:00.000 I mean, there's one thing.
00:21:03.000 If she actually got large, that's just a mean person. 1.00
00:21:06.000 But if she didn't, that's a troll. 0.99
00:21:08.000 Right, but teenage girls don't evaluate it that way.
00:21:10.000 I understand that.
00:21:11.000 You know what I mean?
00:21:12.000 They should not be online.
00:21:13.000 They should not be?
00:21:13.000 They should not be on social media.
00:21:15.000 No, there's a lot of them that should not be on social media.
00:21:17.000 I mean, not even just teenage, like, well into womanhood.
00:21:22.000 I know women that, like, read things and they get... 0.79
00:21:24.000 They'll ruin their whole day.
00:21:26.000 Like, it'll wake them up in the middle of the night.
00:21:28.000 It's not good.
00:21:29.000 No.
00:21:30.000 And it's these faceless, nameless people that are saying these mean things that...
00:21:36.000 Aren't even accurate, but for whatever reason, they resonate.
00:21:39.000 Yeah, women have always been, like, really empathetic creatures. 0.99
00:21:43.000 They, like, care about what their friends think.
00:21:45.000 They care about what other people think.
00:21:48.000 Some of them.
00:21:49.000 We're making massive generalizations here about trans people, about doctors.
00:21:54.000 No, but here's why I say that.
00:21:57.000 Because there's a reason that social contagion spreads among teenage girls specifically. 0.80
00:22:02.000 Because you don't see tons of boys going around becoming anorexic because their friends are.
00:22:06.000 If a teenage boy is depressed, his friend says to him, let's go play basketball or video game.
00:22:11.000 He doesn't say, let's sit and talk about it.
00:22:14.000 And because girls try to take on their friend's pain very naturally and meet their friends where they are and they care, they take on the pain of other people, especially their girlfriends, they are more likely to share and spread a peer contagion like Like anorexia, 0.71
00:22:31.000 like cutting, and like trans identification.
00:22:33.000 That's fascinating.
00:22:33.000 You're talking about these mental health disorders like they're a contagion, like they're actually contagious.
00:22:39.000 Like you can give it to your friends and your friends can take it on as well.
00:22:42.000 Right.
00:22:42.000 Well, we know this, right?
00:22:44.000 Anorexics, they are always really careful when they put them together.
00:22:47.000 They have to be on hospital wards because we know that it will cause it to spread.
00:22:50.000 Anorexia will become more severe and they'll spread it if you put a bunch of anorexic girls together And you don't take precautions to make sure that they're not just encouraging each other to lose more and more weight. 1.00
00:23:01.000 Well, that sort of phenomenon exists in men as well, but it exists like a good aspect of it is if you have friends that are very ambitious and work really hard, you'll want to be ambitious and work really hard as well.
00:23:16.000 And if you have friends that are losers and they want to drink and just waste their life, you tend to gravitate towards that, too, because you get reinforced by the behavior and the acceptance of your peers.
00:23:27.000 Yeah, and men are more competitive, for sure. 0.89
00:23:30.000 I think men are more outwardly competitive.
00:23:32.000 I see it in my kids.
00:23:35.000 If I say to one brother, your brother's doing this, all of a sudden I have the other one's attention.
00:23:40.000 What does Lana Del Rey look like? 0.99
00:23:42.000 What do you got?
00:23:43.000 What's her Instagram?
00:23:49.000 Yeah, to see it worked.
00:23:50.000 There it goes.
00:23:51.000 Do we need a new box?
00:23:53.000 There's a book, but there's nothing on there.
00:23:55.000 Where's the image? 0.69
00:23:57.000 She's a little fat. 1.00
00:23:58.000 That's outrageous.
00:23:59.000 Which one did you see where they said she was fat? 1.00
00:24:01.000 I think it might have been that one.
00:24:02.000 I don't know, the one on the audiobook.
00:24:04.000 That's a video.
00:24:05.000 Was it a video or was it a photograph?
00:24:07.000 It was a photo, I think.
00:24:08.000 I just looked at it.
00:24:11.000 It was last week, I think.
00:24:13.000 Or earlier this week. 0.96
00:24:14.000 Anybody who said that's fat is a troll. 1.00
00:24:18.000 That's just a guy, probably, who's an asshole. 1.00
00:24:21.000 I think it looked like it was a woman posting, actually, because I was curious about that. 1.00
00:24:26.000 If I was going to be a troll, I'd pretend to be a woman and just be the meanest woman ever and just go on these women's pages and make them feel bad. 1.00
00:24:33.000 I think there's a lot of people, men and women, that really enjoy hurting people's feelings online.
00:24:39.000 Yeah. 0.98
00:24:39.000 If you look at that woman right there and say, you look fat, why not say you look like a giraffe? 0.98
00:24:46.000 Because both of them are equally inaccurate.
00:24:49.000 She doesn't look fat at all.
00:24:50.000 Right, but teen girls aren't good at assessing that. 1.00
00:24:53.000 So, for instance, I talked to one detransitioner. 1.00
00:24:55.000 So she had gone on testosterone and regretted it, came back.
00:24:58.000 Detransitioner.
00:24:59.000 Yeah, detransitioner. 1.00
00:25:00.000 Young woman, Helena.
00:25:01.000 Brilliant young woman.
00:25:02.000 I really learned a lot from her.
00:25:04.000 One thing she said to me was, you know, Everybody just cares about how perfect you look today and how feminine. 0.95
00:25:11.000 And at the time I said to her, I was interviewing her, and I said, wait a second, hold on.
00:25:14.000 What are you talking about?
00:25:15.000 Like, I just saw A Star is Born with Lady Gaga.
00:25:18.000 She's not perfect looking, but she's an awesomely talented human being, like a woman that every young actress and singer should be looking up to. 0.80
00:25:28.000 And she said to me, and I'll never forget this, she said to me, are you kidding?
00:25:31.000 Do you see how they talk about her online?
00:25:35.000 And I realized I was only listening to her albums and seeing her in the movie.
00:25:40.000 But Helena was looking at social media and she was seeing women, you know, even as amazing as Lady Gaga torn apart. 1.00
00:25:48.000 Yeah, again, this is the problem with social media that we kind of discussed in the green room about the percentage of people that are really fucking stupid that are posting. 0.99
00:25:57.000 You're getting a lot of people... 0.99
00:25:59.000 See, if you just have people commenting on things without knowing who they are...
00:26:05.000 Like, if you work in an office and you have a bunch of people in your office that you respect and they're your peers and they say, Abigail, I think this.
00:26:15.000 And you go, hmm, that's interesting, Mary, because...
00:26:18.000 I respect your opinion, so I'm going to have to take that into consideration. 0.97
00:26:21.000 But if you just read some no face, no name, you don't know who the fuck it is, blocked account, and they write something mean, you will take that Into your brain the same way you'll take your friend Mary, who you respect and love. 0.78
00:26:38.000 It's like, it's a problem with human beings the way we process information. 1.00
00:26:41.000 If we don't have, like, if you know that someone's a moron, they say something to you, you're like, well, Mike's a moron. 1.00
00:26:46.000 Everyone knows Mike's a moron. 1.00
00:26:47.000 It's clear. 1.00
00:26:48.000 But when you just read something in text, your text looks just like some idiot's text. 1.00
00:26:54.000 Right. 1.00
00:26:54.000 You're using the same font. 1.00
00:26:55.000 It comes off of an iPhone, just like him.
00:26:58.000 And it's hard to tell.
00:26:59.000 It's hard to differentiate.
00:27:00.000 And when people are doing it specifically just to be mean, it can be very, very confusing.
00:27:06.000 And it just highlights the really poor quality of discourse that you get when you're reading comments and you're dealing with social media.
00:27:15.000 YouTube comments and Twitter and all that stuff.
00:27:17.000 It's just a really bad way to communicate with people and most of the people that are saying shitty things would not say those shitty things if they were right in front of you.
00:27:24.000 That's exactly right.
00:27:25.000 And I think one of the things that makes it even worse is because somebody makes a mean comment to you.
00:27:31.000 Okay, maybe it bothers you, maybe it doesn't, right?
00:27:33.000 But it's not in front of, I don't know, a thousand of your friends.
00:27:37.000 Now it's in front of a thousand of your friends.
00:27:40.000 That's humiliating.
00:27:41.000 Yes, yeah.
00:27:42.000 Wow, you just amplified that.
00:27:44.000 Yes.
00:27:45.000 Yeah.
00:27:45.000 Well, we're not designed for this.
00:27:47.000 You know, we really aren't.
00:27:49.000 It was someone like me.
00:27:51.000 I mean, I have pretty thick skin, but I'm not designed for it.
00:27:54.000 So I don't read it.
00:27:54.000 I just don't read it.
00:27:55.000 I post things and I run away.
00:27:57.000 You know, it's like some people can just sit in there and try to soak up all the hate and turn people around.
00:28:04.000 I've heard people say, oh, they say me things to me, but I say nice things back and they say, hey, I was only kidding.
00:28:09.000 I'm like, why waste your time?
00:28:10.000 What are you doing?
00:28:12.000 Are you going to proselytize?
00:28:13.000 Are you going to fix people?
00:28:14.000 What are you doing?
00:28:15.000 You're engaging in one of the worst forms of communication we have available to us.
00:28:21.000 Anonymous human beings that just post their opinions.
00:28:24.000 Let their opinions be their opinions.
00:28:26.000 I don't have any power over people's opinions.
00:28:28.000 Let them have their opinions.
00:28:29.000 It's hard not to.
00:28:31.000 Personally, I think it's really hard.
00:28:33.000 Somebody posts something about you on Facebook or Twitter or whatever.
00:28:37.000 Everybody's seeing that.
00:28:38.000 You just got called a name in front of a thousand people.
00:28:42.000 Way more, depending on which forum it's on, whatever.
00:28:46.000 It's really hard to just ignore it now.
00:28:48.000 Well, it's really hard, and it's particularly hard if you're young and developing.
00:28:52.000 It's really hard if you're a 50-year-old man.
00:28:54.000 But if you're a 17-year-old girl and you're in this awkward time in your life, it can be really devastating.
00:29:01.000 But that's why they shouldn't be on it. 0.98
00:29:02.000 It's fucking bad for them. 0.98
00:29:03.000 It's bad for everybody. 0.99
00:29:04.000 I agree.
00:29:05.000 But I tell parents, if you can, don't introduce social media and get them off it.
00:29:10.000 The problem is their friends are on it.
00:29:12.000 One of my daughters who's 12, her friend has an Instagram page.
00:29:16.000 She's like, I want an Instagram page. 1.00
00:29:17.000 I'm like, you are out of your mind.
00:29:19.000 You don't want that.
00:29:20.000 You think you want that.
00:29:21.000 You don't want that.
00:29:22.000 Your friend doesn't even want that.
00:29:23.000 Let's check in with her in three years when she's going crazy. 1.00
00:29:25.000 It's not good.
00:29:27.000 Right.
00:29:27.000 So we can now pinpoint a lot of mental health issues, especially for teenage girls, right to social media.
00:29:34.000 Yeah.
00:29:35.000 And again, The Coddling of the American Mind is a fantastic book that covers that.
00:29:39.000 And it's not just girls.
00:29:40.000 It's boys.
00:29:41.000 It's humans.
00:29:41.000 It's adults.
00:29:42.000 It's grown women. 1.00
00:29:43.000 It's grown men.
00:29:44.000 It's just...
00:29:45.000 It's a really bad way to communicate with each other and it's a bad way to exchange ideas.
00:29:51.000 And now they're watching these influencers, which is another thing.
00:29:56.000 You have these trans influencers and they promise these girls that if they just go on tea, everything will get better. 0.97
00:30:03.000 Why do you think they do that?
00:30:05.000 Okay.
00:30:06.000 A couple of reasons.
00:30:07.000 So one is testosterone has certain good effects.
00:30:13.000 So it delivers a euphoria and it suppresses anxiety.
00:30:18.000 And anxiety is one of their biggest problems.
00:30:20.000 So they go on it and they feel great and they can't wait to tell their friends.
00:30:25.000 It makes their period go away and it redistributes fat.
00:30:28.000 So now these girls feel like I just beat... 1.00
00:30:32.000 Puberty.
00:30:32.000 I feel amazing.
00:30:33.000 I want to tell everybody how great I feel.
00:30:36.000 And they are brave all of a sudden.
00:30:38.000 They're braver and socially bolder.
00:30:40.000 The problem is, of course, what they don't like to talk about online is all the really dangerous stuff that comes with testosterone, too.
00:30:48.000 Like it leads to heart infertility, like risk of cardiovascular attack, you know, a heart attack. 0.54
00:30:54.000 Risk of heart attack goes way up.
00:30:56.000 There's, you know, body hair, facial hair.
00:31:00.000 But don't they want that?
00:31:02.000 The body hair, facial hair part?
00:31:04.000 For now, but it's permanent.
00:31:07.000 Body hair is permanent?
00:31:08.000 It can be.
00:31:09.000 But what about when trans women, when a man transitions to a woman, don't they lose a lot of their body hair? 0.95
00:31:15.000 They lose some of it.
00:31:16.000 I mean, everybody's different, but some of them are stuck with a 5 o'clock shadow for life.
00:31:21.000 How does a kid know whether they are someone who's being easily influenced and someone who is giving in to this anxiety and you are a part of the way you're describing a contagion amongst your friends?
00:31:37.000 Versus someone who's genuinely trans, like someone who genuinely is born in the wrong body. 1.00
00:31:42.000 So we have a hundred year diagnostic history of gender dysphoria.
00:31:46.000 We know what it is.
00:31:47.000 It's not guesswork.
00:31:48.000 We know that it is in this whole history.
00:31:51.000 It typically presents in early childhood, ages two to four is when we see it starting.
00:31:56.000 And it was overwhelmingly boys, little boys who say, no, mommy, I'm not a boy.
00:32:01.000 I'm a girl.
00:32:01.000 Call me a girl.
00:32:02.000 Only want to play with other girls. 0.99
00:32:03.000 Only want to Do you know play with girl toys and they sometimes they hate their sexual organ. 1.00
00:32:08.000 I mean sometimes you know it's a severe persistent insistent consistent feeling and then a lot of them would grow out of it and some of them wouldn't and they would become what we used to call transsexuals. 0.94
00:32:19.000 Now we're seeing an explosion of young women. 1.00
00:32:22.000 Yeah.
00:32:41.000 So what about women that were trans?
00:32:44.000 Like you said, predominantly it's boys who wanted to be girls.
00:32:49.000 But what about girls who wanted to be boys? 0.99
00:32:52.000 So that existed too, and that also typically began in early childhood.
00:32:56.000 And most of these kids, if left alone, would outgrow it.
00:33:00.000 So gender dysphoria is something that most kids Even if they experience the real thing, we'll outgrow, and some won't. 0.92
00:33:09.000 Yeah, I was reading an article about gender dysphoria.
00:33:13.000 They were talking about it.
00:33:14.000 First of all, even saying gender dysphoria, I think, is hate speech now.
00:33:17.000 I don't think you're supposed to...
00:33:18.000 It's in the DSM. I know.
00:33:20.000 Is the whole DSM hate speech?
00:33:21.000 Yes.
00:33:22.000 Everything.
00:33:22.000 Your hate speech.
00:33:23.000 Okay.
00:33:25.000 But you know what I mean?
00:33:26.000 I mean, everything's hate speech.
00:33:28.000 Because people have gone so wacky.
00:33:30.000 But they were talking about...
00:33:31.000 There was a study done on men who experienced gender dysphoria at a young age and then transitioned to become gay.
00:33:41.000 And just became gay. 0.92
00:33:44.000 Just were gay. 1.00
00:33:44.000 And they realized this was just a part of their process and they're happy as a gay man and they didn't transition. 1.00
00:33:52.000 So that's very typical.
00:33:53.000 Most of these kids would emerge as homosexual adults. 0.86
00:33:57.000 The thing is, if we're cool with people being trans, and we are, obviously, especially adults, Why is it better? 0.98
00:34:10.000 Do we like this idea that if you just leave them alone they become gay men? 0.99
00:34:17.000 How many of them would be trans if they were encouraged in that direction? 1.00
00:34:21.000 Are they happier this way or that way?
00:34:24.000 This is a very human problem.
00:34:27.000 By human problem, I mean there's not really a good answer.
00:34:31.000 Human problems are slippery problems.
00:34:34.000 Where it's like you're developing...
00:34:37.000 Particularly you're talking about young people.
00:34:40.000 We're hijacking their development.
00:34:43.000 You're deciding, okay, have you made a decision?
00:34:44.000 You know what you're going to do?
00:34:45.000 Forever?
00:34:46.000 Alright, we're going to jump in now and we're going to stop your reproductive cycle. 1.00
00:34:50.000 Right.
00:34:50.000 We're going to jump in now and introduce hormones that were never in your body.
00:34:54.000 And we're going to, well, a little bit, tiny amounts. 0.99
00:34:56.000 We're going to jack it up to the roof like fucking Hulk Hogan. 0.98
00:34:59.000 And you're going to be a different person now. 0.99
00:35:01.000 And I hope you can make this decision at 17 and That will affect the rest of your life.
00:35:08.000 I hope you're mentally capable of doing that.
00:35:12.000 That's a tall order.
00:35:13.000 It's a tall order and there's no medical oversight right now.
00:35:16.000 We have no idea what long-term testosterone use does to a female's body at 10 to 40 times what her body would normally have. 0.99
00:35:24.000 We don't know.
00:35:25.000 We can talk about the risks, but we don't know.
00:35:27.000 But it's not presented to people as a highly experimental medicine, which it is.
00:35:32.000 It's not reviewed by an institutional review board.
00:35:35.000 They make it sound like it's something you can just sign a waiver for and no big deal.
00:35:39.000 Why is that?
00:35:40.000 Why is there no review?
00:35:41.000 Why is there no oversight?
00:35:43.000 Why is this so free and loose?
00:35:45.000 I mean, is it a sign?
00:35:47.000 Is it a good sign that we're, like, more progressive now, more open-minded?
00:35:51.000 But because of that, things have gotten a little slippery in terms of what we celebrate and what we should rationally step back and objectively analyze and say, hey, is this really the right way to handle this?
00:36:03.000 Absolutely.
00:36:03.000 I think one of the things that happened was in 2012, WPATH, which is the transgender health organization, worldwide organization, changed to an informed consent model saying that people should be able to get the drugs they want or claim to need Based on their own recognizance.
00:36:27.000 You sign a form, you're aware of the risk, and then you get it.
00:36:29.000 And the problem was, maybe they felt that there was too much gatekeeping, as they call it, or too much questioning.
00:36:36.000 They felt that there were people who weren't getting the medical care they needed.
00:36:40.000 The problem was, you hit 18, and the age of medical consent varies by state.
00:36:45.000 In Oregon, it's 15. It varies.
00:36:47.000 And you hit that age, you can get it.
00:36:50.000 You walk out the door with it.
00:36:51.000 In Oregon, it's 15. Yeah.
00:36:53.000 That's crazy.
00:36:54.000 You're not even a fully formed person.
00:36:55.000 No.
00:36:56.000 And you don't need your parents' approval.
00:36:57.000 Oh my god.
00:37:00.000 We were talking before we got on the air about Children like really young children transitioning you were saying that most people who transition know when they're very young That is a real That's a hot-button topic for people children and hormone blockers and children What I keep going to is if you are a woman and You you know,
00:37:29.000 you're a woman Why do you need to get these hormones injected into your body? 1.00
00:37:34.000 Why can't you just be a woman? 1.00
00:37:36.000 I'll call you a woman. 0.98
00:37:38.000 What are we doing with all these hormones?
00:37:42.000 Imagine you're a person who says, I need to transition to be a woman and I know that I need a chemical that I've never had in my body before.
00:37:52.000 And if I get that chemical injected, then I'm going to be happy.
00:37:55.000 Right.
00:37:55.000 And if I get surgery, then I'm going to be happy.
00:37:57.000 This is what I'm supposed to be.
00:37:58.000 Right.
00:37:58.000 So the big problem with this is that you're making all the decisions that normally a doctor would make.
00:38:03.000 And you do it at 15. Right.
00:38:04.000 In any other area of medicine, a doctor makes that.
00:38:07.000 They say, hold on, I know you think you need, you know, whatever, an opioid, but just relax.
00:38:13.000 Let's see what you're, you know, I mean, that's You know, effectively, you know, what facilitated the opioid crisis?
00:38:19.000 Doctors just handing over the prescription pad.
00:38:21.000 And we're seeing that right now with anybody who claims to have gender dysphoria.
00:38:25.000 They get it.
00:38:26.000 They self-diagnose.
00:38:27.000 They say, no, no, no, I know it's my problem.
00:38:29.000 They don't have a mental health professional who says, oh, wait a second, hold on.
00:38:33.000 You have very high anxiety, depression.
00:38:35.000 You have a lot of other mental health stuff going on.
00:38:37.000 Let's deal with that first.
00:38:38.000 Any therapist who dares to say that might violate one of the 19 conversion therapy laws we now have in 19 different states.
00:38:46.000 There's 19 conversion therapy? 0.60
00:38:48.000 Yeah, which bans so-called conversion therapy, even on gender identity, which means that therapists could lose their license if they say, hold on, I know you want to transition.
00:38:56.000 I know you think your problem is gender dysphoria.
00:38:58.000 Let's talk about some of your other problems.
00:39:00.000 Wow.
00:39:01.000 So a therapist, if you're a 15 year old kid and you come to a therapist and you say, all my friends are going trans and I think I'm trans too, the doctor has to essentially go with you on this little path you're on?
00:39:14.000 The doctors feel that they have to.
00:39:16.000 I mean, the American, the number of associations, American Medical Association, Endocrine Society, I mean, you name it, American Pediatric Society, you know, all these medical professional organizations, most of them have adopted affirmative care, which means their job is to affirm the patient's self-diagnosis with regard to this one issue.
00:39:34.000 I mean, they're, you know, it's turning doctors into, I don't know, life coaches, right?
00:39:41.000 How much time have we been doing this for?
00:39:43.000 How long is the time period when this really started to escalate?
00:39:46.000 The last decade.
00:39:48.000 We've seen it fly across the West.
00:39:50.000 I mean, it's in Canada, UK, you know, Scandinavia.
00:39:53.000 We're seeing numbers across the West.
00:39:55.000 All of a sudden, it's teenage girls. 0.84
00:39:56.000 It's the very same girls who spread every other, you know, contemporary hysteria or every other hysteria. 0.97
00:40:05.000 Boy, it makes you feel like there's a lot of lawsuits coming.
00:40:09.000 I wouldn't be surprised.
00:40:11.000 I mean, these girls are getting these things so easily, and they're 15, they're 16, they're 17, they're 18. How many did you interview when you were doing this book?
00:40:20.000 So I conducted almost 200 interviews.
00:40:24.000 So how many teenage girls, or specifically, I actually don't know.
00:40:29.000 I interviewed a lot, a lot of people, and a bunch of adolescent girls as well.
00:40:34.000 More than 10, more than 20?
00:40:35.000 Yeah, more than 10, but I don't know.
00:40:37.000 I have spreadsheets for this stuff.
00:40:40.000 Did you interview ones that were happy with the transition?
00:40:42.000 Yeah, I did.
00:40:44.000 Still very young, but I interviewed influencers, and I interviewed parents, and I interviewed adolescent girls.
00:40:53.000 And some of these girls have stayed with their transition and claimed to be happy.
00:40:59.000 Maybe they are, some of them.
00:41:01.000 But the problem is if you ask...
00:41:03.000 If you find out objective things about their lives, right, are you still in school or did you drop out?
00:41:09.000 Or did you cut off your family or did you not?
00:41:11.000 Do you have friends?
00:41:13.000 What's your social life like?
00:41:14.000 What's your job?
00:41:15.000 Do you have a regular job?
00:41:16.000 Very often the picture is a dark one.
00:41:19.000 It's not a good one.
00:41:22.000 Isn't that just the case with a lot of people in general, though?
00:41:25.000 I mean, especially people that have the kind of problems they have to begin with, and they make this gigantic decision.
00:41:31.000 The question is, did this decision of transitioning help or hurt?
00:41:36.000 And where would they be if they didn't?
00:41:37.000 You were talking about them before, saying they were already in a dark place.
00:41:41.000 They're already awkward.
00:41:42.000 Teenagers, the kind of girls who cut themselves, the kind of girls who are prone to anorexia and witchcraft.
00:41:48.000 You're dealing with someone who doesn't have a rosy future already.
00:41:52.000 Right.
00:41:52.000 But I think we used to call that angst, teenage angst.
00:41:55.000 I mean, they got past it.
00:41:57.000 Some folks.
00:41:58.000 Yeah, you're right.
00:41:59.000 Not everyone.
00:42:00.000 But now they're getting prescriptions.
00:42:03.000 They're changing the whole course of their lives so easily with no medical oversight.
00:42:07.000 What kind of numbers are we talking about?
00:42:09.000 Like how many people are doing this?
00:42:10.000 Okay.
00:42:11.000 So the numbers are harder to track in the United States because we don't have centralized medical care.
00:42:16.000 But here are the numbers that I can tell you, okay?
00:42:19.000 So gender dysphoria used to afflict 0.01 percent of the population.
00:42:23.000 So one in 10,000 people.
00:42:25.000 So probably no one you went to high school with.
00:42:28.000 But today, we already know that 2% of high school students are identifying as transgender.
00:42:33.000 And 2% of high school students, you're talking about 1.1 million teenage high school kids in America.
00:42:40.000 2%?
00:42:41.000 2%.
00:42:42.000 And when did this happen?
00:42:43.000 Most of them are girls, yeah. 0.99
00:42:44.000 Really?
00:42:45.000 Most of them are girls? 0.94
00:42:46.000 Most of them are girls. 0.75
00:42:47.000 Really?
00:42:48.000 Well, I mean, we can just look at the number of gender surgeries.
00:42:51.000 And we see that between 2016 and 2017, the number of gender surgeries for biological females quadrupled.
00:43:00.000 So we know they are the biggest and fastest growing population.
00:43:07.000 Wow.
00:43:07.000 That's a stunning number.
00:43:08.000 Two percent.
00:43:09.000 You go from 0.1 percent.
00:43:12.000 Of the whole population.
00:43:13.000 Of the whole population.
00:43:14.000 To two percent of high schoolers.
00:43:16.000 And the vast majority of them are teenage girls.
00:43:19.000 Yeah.
00:43:19.000 What is the majority?
00:43:20.000 What are you talking about?
00:43:21.000 Eighty percent?
00:43:22.000 What is the number?
00:43:23.000 I don't know.
00:43:24.000 But most of them are teenage girls.
00:43:25.000 More teenage girls. 0.96
00:43:27.000 We know that.
00:43:27.000 I can give you a bunch of other statistics.
00:43:30.000 One of the reasons it's hard to know exactly how many, aside from the fact that we don't have a centralized control of this, Is because you don't need an actual diagnosis of gender dysphoria to get testosterone.
00:43:41.000 So you just go in and get it.
00:43:43.000 You don't need the diagnosis.
00:43:44.000 In England, where you have a centralized medical care and you do need a diagnosis, they know that the numbers for adolescent girls are up over 4,000%. 0.99
00:43:54.000 Holy shit. 0.99
00:43:56.000 Yeah. 1.00
00:43:57.000 So you knew all the stuff before you wrote the book.
00:43:59.000 This is all the numbers that...
00:44:00.000 Well, no, it came out in the course of writing it.
00:44:03.000 Yeah, some of it.
00:44:04.000 So that had to kind of affirm your idea that this was a real problem.
00:44:08.000 I mean, everywhere I looked, it seemed to be a real problem.
00:44:10.000 It wasn't...
00:44:11.000 And nobody wanted to talk about it, but it's real.
00:44:13.000 Well, because, like, even when we're talking about it, I'm like, oh, here's a landmine.
00:44:16.000 Oh, here's a landmine.
00:44:17.000 Like, everything we're saying.
00:44:19.000 Like, if you talk at all about trans people... 1.00
00:44:34.000 Right.
00:44:35.000 Right.
00:44:37.000 Right.
00:44:44.000 Because nobody will talk about it because parents will call me and say, I've been pro-LGBTQ my whole life.
00:44:51.000 I just don't think this is right for my daughter.
00:44:53.000 I can't even talk to my friends about it.
00:44:55.000 I'll get fired from my job if anybody finds this out.
00:44:57.000 But my daughter's not – she's got a lot of problems, but gender dysphoria is not one of them. 0.72
00:45:02.000 Like I don't think this is right and I don't think it's going to cure her.
00:45:04.000 And if you have to work and you're at work all day, how much time do you have to even convince your daughter?
00:45:10.000 Your daughter is with her wacky friends eight hours a day.
00:45:13.000 And she's on the internet.
00:45:14.000 And the problem is her school's already filled out a form calling her Jimmy, right?
00:45:19.000 For a year, they don't even tell you.
00:45:24.000 And for the people that don't think people are easily influenced...
00:45:29.000 That's how cults start.
00:45:30.000 Cults don't start because they make sense.
00:45:33.000 Cults start because people want to belong. 0.94
00:45:35.000 And the idea that there's not a difference between someone who's willing to join some crazy radical cult to belong versus any other sort of social movement That's a lot of what people do.
00:45:50.000 You're seeing it now with a lot of our society.
00:45:55.000 There's paths that people go on to where they see other people doing it, and they see a lot of people getting celebrated, and so they go down that path.
00:46:03.000 This really is a lot of the foundation of the social media influencer.
00:46:07.000 One of the reasons why they're doing that.
00:46:10.000 It's because they see other people do it, and they get this sort of positive reaction from it, and then they wind up saying, oh, well, this is the path that I'm going to go on.
00:46:19.000 To make the jump from that sort of thinking and behavior to changing your gender is where people hesitate.
00:46:26.000 They're like, is she right about this?
00:46:28.000 Is this woman a bigot? 1.00
00:46:29.000 Like, who are you?
00:46:30.000 Who are you and why did you write this book?
00:46:32.000 And what has the negative reaction been from people who are trans?
00:46:40.000 So, you know, I get a lot of positive reaction, to be honest.
00:46:44.000 Parents from all over the country are writing to me and be like, thank you so much.
00:46:47.000 No one will talk about this.
00:46:48.000 Let's talk about transgender reaction. 0.97
00:46:50.000 The best reaction I get from transgender people is, that has nothing to do with me. 0.99
00:46:55.000 And I would say, I agree with you.
00:46:57.000 This has nothing to do with a normal transgender person's experience. 0.97
00:47:01.000 They didn't come up with this online.
00:47:02.000 But do some activists attack me?
00:47:05.000 Yeah.
00:47:05.000 You know, biological men...
00:47:08.000 Who are trans activists believe that we should not be able to have a conversation about the mental health of teenage girls.
00:47:15.000 And they're shutting it down.
00:47:17.000 Yeah.
00:47:18.000 Why are we letting that happen?
00:47:19.000 Like, who's letting that happen?
00:47:20.000 And what are the repercussions of them fighting against this?
00:47:23.000 Is it what you were talking about before?
00:47:24.000 Where are these therapists, if they in any way suggest that this is not a good idea for the kid, they can lose their license?
00:47:31.000 Right.
00:47:31.000 Everybody.
00:47:31.000 I mean, I get so many doctors will contact me like we live in the Soviet Union.
00:47:36.000 They will say, oh my god, I can't talk about this, but I really, you know, I have to let you know that what's going on here is crazy and I don't agree with this diagnosis and it's clearly socially influenced and, you know, all this stuff.
00:47:47.000 And you think, like, you can't give your medical opinion without getting fired?
00:47:51.000 That's not good.
00:47:53.000 Yeah, this is dangerous, but one of the things that I see is when women or trans women, when a male transitions to being a woman and then enters into women's spaces, they do so with the aggressiveness of a male. 0.98
00:48:10.000 And this is something that a lot of women have been very upset about, particularly TERFs, you know, trans, exclusionary, radical feminists. 1.00
00:48:18.000 They have a real hard time with Biological males talking about feminist issues and shutting down discussion about whether or not trans people are women, whether or not they should be in these spaces, whether or not they should be in these conversations. 0.62
00:48:33.000 They do so with a very aggressive...
00:48:35.000 Yeah, very aggressive.
00:48:36.000 And I just want to say, I've interviewed a lot of transgender adults.
00:48:39.000 And let me tell you, they're not out there to make women uncomfortable.
00:48:42.000 The ones I interview...
00:48:43.000 They want to be happy.
00:48:44.000 They want to be left alone.
00:48:46.000 It's great.
00:48:47.000 They're wonderful people. 0.92
00:48:48.000 These activists are a little crazy.
00:48:51.000 People who will push into a locker room, insist on showering where you've got a bunch of... 0.64
00:48:58.000 And this happened.
00:48:58.000 I wrote about it in Palm Springs.
00:49:01.000 A girl's water polo high school team showed up to... 0.99
00:49:05.000 Yeah. 1.00
00:49:15.000 Yeah, and you can have a penis and be a woman, which is also... 1.00
00:49:19.000 Okay. 1.00
00:49:20.000 Like, you're not even gonna make the commitment?
00:49:22.000 Like, if you're gonna be in a shower with a woman, Jesus Christ. 1.00
00:49:25.000 Like, saying you're a woman and having a penis and being in a shower with a bunch of women, I mean, we gotta come up with some sort of a way of protecting young girls from people who are doing things like that. 0.98
00:49:37.000 You shouldn't have to see a naked man In a shower, if you're a biological female and, you know, you're 15 years old and you think you're showering with your team and a male comes in. 0.98
00:49:50.000 Right.
00:49:50.000 But this male says that they're a woman and you have to take them at their word.
00:49:53.000 Well, you're a woman. 1.00
00:49:54.000 Do we need trans bathrooms? 1.00
00:49:56.000 I mean, what do we need?
00:49:57.000 I mean, how does that work?
00:49:58.000 I mean, you can't even...
00:50:00.000 Nobody's standing up for these girls, right?
00:50:02.000 So few people are saying, hold on, like you can't...
00:50:05.000 They are rewriting in the state of Connecticut, okay?
00:50:10.000 Now the biological boys are allowed in to out-compete girls. 0.99
00:50:13.000 They are mediocre boy runners and they're winning the trophies.
00:50:16.000 They are setting records in Connecticut.
00:50:18.000 They are literally erasing tremendous girl athletes' records in the state of Connecticut.
00:50:23.000 And they don't have to do anything in terms of transition.
00:50:25.000 They just have to say they identify as women.
00:50:27.000 Right.
00:50:27.000 Which is crazy.
00:50:28.000 It's not like they have to be on estrogen therapy for multiple years.
00:50:32.000 Some of them are, but you know what?
00:50:33.000 The effects of testosterone on the body during puberty on a male's body are profound, right?
00:50:39.000 I mean, I know you talk about this, like fast-switch muscle fiber, muscle mass, bone density.
00:50:46.000 They have bigger hearts, men, bigger lungs, but more oxygenated blood.
00:50:50.000 The differential is profound.
00:50:53.000 Yeah.
00:50:53.000 Yeah, it is profound.
00:50:54.000 And it's interesting that if you discuss this, you're a bigot.
00:50:57.000 It's really weird.
00:50:59.000 And it's this denial of reality that it's not like you don't want someone to be happy, but for someone to say that it's fair for a biological male to compete against biological females, that's crazy.
00:51:13.000 And when you have this conversation with people, I always say, okay, well, do you think men should be able to join women's teams?
00:51:19.000 No.
00:51:19.000 Well, then what are we doing?
00:51:21.000 Well, what are we doing?
00:51:22.000 Should men be able to compete against women? 1.00
00:51:23.000 No.
00:51:24.000 Okay, so biological males that identify as women should be able to compete against women. 0.63
00:51:28.000 Is that what you're saying?
00:51:29.000 Because they're still males.
00:51:31.000 Like, when do you make the transition?
00:51:32.000 Like, when is it...
00:51:33.000 Do you have to...
00:51:34.000 And then, well, people will point to outliers.
00:51:36.000 Well, there's some women that have more testosterone naturally. 1.00
00:51:40.000 Okay, but those are very rare. 1.00
00:51:42.000 You know, when one of those gets in your division and you're a woman and she happens to also be a woman and she has naturally more testosterone, well, I guess you're fucked. 0.99
00:51:51.000 But that's just nature. 1.00
00:51:53.000 I mean, that's also like, if you're my size and you want to play basketball against LeBron James, you're fucked too. 0.99
00:51:58.000 You know, like, competition's not necessarily all that fair when it comes to just human bodies. 0.99
00:52:05.000 Like, some people are just genetically gifted and some people are not.
00:52:08.000 But we make a distinction for a reason.
00:52:11.000 The biological distinction between males and females.
00:52:13.000 It's because men are overwhelmingly stronger, faster, have larger hearts, more oxygen capacity, bigger bones.
00:52:23.000 There's so many factors.
00:52:24.000 Different shape of the hips.
00:52:26.000 Right.
00:52:27.000 Yeah, there's a lot.
00:52:27.000 Look at Alison Felix, right?
00:52:29.000 The world's fastest woman, right? 0.99
00:52:31.000 This amazing US Olympian, right?
00:52:34.000 So she ran the 400 meter and I think 49.26 sections.
00:52:38.000 Unbelievable.
00:52:39.000 Unbelievable time.
00:52:41.000 She has more Olympic gold medals than Usain Bolt.
00:52:43.000 Okay?
00:52:44.000 Amazing athlete.
00:52:45.000 In 2018, 300 boys in high school in America could beat her.
00:52:54.000 That's nuts.
00:52:55.000 Yeah.
00:52:58.000 It's unfortunate because...
00:53:01.000 Outside of athletic competition, I would like them to be recognized as a full woman. 0.99
00:53:07.000 I would like that.
00:53:08.000 I would love it if everybody just treated them like they're a woman and respected them with their new name or whatever they want to do. 1.00
00:53:13.000 But when you get involved in athletic competition, where I took a lot of heat was when it was about mixed martial arts, where there was a mixed martial arts fighter who transitioned.
00:53:22.000 And there was just a story written about it the other day.
00:53:24.000 It was a ridiculous story saying that the science... 0.99
00:53:28.000 Protesting it is junk science which is horse shit and this person was a male for 30 years Became a woman for two and started beating the fuck out of women without telling them that she had been a male most of her life and And people were so that was where I really realized that's when I first started to realize that There's some crazy psychological connection to this. 0.99
00:53:54.000 The arguments that people have, these progressive arguments, they're saying these things not necessarily because they've objectively, rationally dissected this problem and looked at it in terms of pros and cons and what's really happening. 0.99
00:54:11.000 They looked at it from an ideological standpoint and a very rigid one.
00:54:14.000 Like if you want to be accepted by progressive people, that is a woman, always a woman. 1.00
00:54:19.000 This was back when I used to talk to people on Twitter, but I had this one conversation with this woman and she said that she was always a woman.
00:54:25.000 And I said, no, she was a man for 30 years.
00:54:28.000 And she goes, no, she was always a woman.
00:54:29.000 I said, even when she got a woman pregnant and had a baby? 0.97
00:54:33.000 She goes, yes, even then.
00:54:34.000 I'm like, well, we're done.
00:54:36.000 Because that doesn't make any sense.
00:54:38.000 We're in la-la land.
00:54:39.000 Right.
00:54:39.000 But whatever your ideology, women are getting beaten to a pulp by Fallon Fox.
00:54:44.000 Yes.
00:54:44.000 Right?
00:54:44.000 They were.
00:54:45.000 Well, they were.
00:54:45.000 But, you know, I mean, look, who's standing up for women?
00:54:48.000 That's the problem. 1.00
00:54:50.000 Biological women get fucked. 1.00
00:54:51.000 Because the idea is that trans women in this Olympics of oppression, trans women are deemed higher on the scale. 1.00
00:55:00.000 They're more oppressed and more marginalized than biological women. 1.00
00:55:04.000 So biological women get fucked over in this design. 1.00
00:55:07.000 Because so few people are trans, This person can do this and everyone can celebrate and if you're not competing against her, so what? 0.99
00:55:17.000 No one has a stake in the game, so they don't really care.
00:55:21.000 And the women that fought her without knowing... 1.00
00:55:23.000 See, I'm in full support of people fighting her if they know that she's to be a man. 0.98
00:55:28.000 If that's what you want to do, I'm in full support of people skydiving, riding bulls, you want to jump motocross bikes and do flips, do whatever the fuck you want. 0.97
00:55:36.000 But you should know what you're getting into. 0.94
00:55:38.000 If you show up to go on a pony ride and someone puts you on a bull, that's not good.
00:55:45.000 You should know that you're about to get on a bull.
00:55:47.000 If you think you're going to fight a biological female, it turns out to be a man who was a man for 30 years and then transitioned to be a female. 0.80
00:55:56.000 And has been on natural male hormones all throughout puberty, all through his life, and then becomes a she, and now you're going to fight her and they're not going to tell you? 1.00
00:56:05.000 That's crazy.
00:56:05.000 Look at Martina Navratilova.
00:56:07.000 She got canceled, right?
00:56:08.000 Yes.
00:56:08.000 She lost her sponsorship for saying it's not fair for biological men to compete with women in sports.
00:56:14.000 Well, what sponsorship was it?
00:56:15.000 Athlete Ally. 0.99
00:56:16.000 Well, who the fuck is Athlete Ally? 0.99
00:56:18.000 I don't know. 0.99
00:56:18.000 They're LGBTQ... Imagine. 0.99
00:56:22.000 First of all, how do all those things get lumped together?
00:56:25.000 Douglas Murray has a great book about this, The Madness of Crowds.
00:56:29.000 I'm in the middle of it right now. 0.99
00:56:30.000 One of the things that he points out is generally the idea of lesbians and gay men being together is kind of ridiculous. 0.99
00:56:37.000 They're so different. 0.98
00:56:38.000 Because gay men or like lesbians think of gay men as being like Peter Pan, like they're never going to grow up. 0.97
00:56:43.000 They don't have to.
00:56:44.000 And lesbians, he's like, it's like different things. 0.85
00:56:47.000 They don't necessarily pal around together.
00:56:49.000 Yeah, I interviewed a lot of lesbians for the book who have really like taught me a lot about just how beaten down they are in the broader culture today. 1.00
00:56:57.000 Because, you know, their groups get infiltrated.
00:56:59.000 They have these underground social groups now.
00:57:02.000 I've heard this from many lesbians across the country. 1.00
00:57:04.000 They have underground – and the reason they need these vetting processes for their social groups is trans activists will try to come in insisting they're lesbians.
00:57:11.000 Yeah.
00:57:12.000 And that's what I'm talking about. 0.94
00:57:13.000 Men – That become women, they retain some of the characteristics that make men gross. 1.00
00:57:20.000 And part of that is being aggressive and competitive and wanting to dominate spaces.
00:57:25.000 And this is some of the things that a lot of these TERFs have had a problem with.
00:57:28.000 And this is why they became trans-exclusionary radical feminists, because they felt like these biological males were entering into their spaces with that sort of male energy. 0.87
00:57:38.000 I mean even the name TERF, like they don't call them – nobody calls themselves – I mean I guess they do now as a joke.
00:57:44.000 But like that was a derisive term.
00:57:47.000 It was like any woman who stood up for women was a TERF. Yeah. 0.63
00:57:50.000 It's so weird because you can't – like there's this thing where you're supposed to say a trans woman is a woman.
00:58:03.000 But you're a trans woman.
00:58:04.000 No.
00:58:05.000 But you are, right?
00:58:07.000 You're a trans woman.
00:58:09.000 There's a weird game we're playing.
00:58:11.000 Yeah, and it's new.
00:58:13.000 What they used to call transsexuals in prior eras, they never said they were always...
00:58:18.000 They don't lie about their biology.
00:58:19.000 They're very open about...
00:58:20.000 I've interviewed many, and they're very open about their biology.
00:58:23.000 They say, yeah, I grew up as a boy.
00:58:26.000 I'm most comfortable presenting as a girl.
00:58:27.000 They don't pretend that history didn't exist.
00:58:29.000 Well, this is all because of social media.
00:58:31.000 And it's all because if you don't go, if you don't toe that line, you will experience attacks.
00:58:37.000 And if you read those attacks, they'll hurt your feelings.
00:58:39.000 And so then you adjust.
00:58:40.000 And I've seen people do that.
00:58:42.000 I've seen people say things that they really believe and then get attacked and then adjust and say something that is more to appease the masses than it is their actual thoughts on the matter.
00:58:52.000 And it's hard because they can get fired.
00:58:54.000 You know, you can get in real trouble.
00:58:56.000 It's so funny.
00:58:57.000 I think you're right about this, actually.
00:58:59.000 I really do because I think social media has more to do with suppressing speech than anything else.
00:59:06.000 It's like these parents will call me and they'll be like, my daughter says she's a boy and it's getting worse and worse.
00:59:12.000 The more I go along with it, it's getting worse.
00:59:15.000 I'll say, why don't you tell her...
00:59:19.000 Whatever.
00:59:19.000 They don't want to go along with it.
00:59:21.000 Why don't you take away your binder?
00:59:23.000 What would happen if you did this?
00:59:25.000 I'll ask.
00:59:26.000 And they'll sort of say, I can't do that.
00:59:28.000 And what they're afraid of, to some extent, is aside from alienating their daughter, they're afraid of social media, right?
00:59:36.000 I mean, everybody's always watching.
00:59:38.000 They're afraid of the mom.
00:59:39.000 They're afraid of the mob.
00:59:40.000 Yeah.
00:59:40.000 And also, you're not going to get a lot of support from other people that aren't being attacked by the mob.
00:59:44.000 If you get attacked by the mob, here's what's interesting.
00:59:46.000 Very few people will come to your aid because they're worried about being attacked by the mob too.
00:59:50.000 They'll sit back and even if they love you, they'll hope you survive the attack, but they won't jump into the fray.
00:59:55.000 And sometimes I have to say to parents, listen, this has nothing to do with LGBTQ rights, okay?
00:59:59.000 No.
00:59:59.000 If you see your daughters in harm, if you think she's not doing well, you're a parent.
01:00:04.000 Right.
01:00:05.000 You don't have to make a policy statement, okay?
01:00:07.000 You can still support every kind of civil rights issue about, you know, LGBTQ rights or whatever.
01:00:13.000 This has nothing to do with it.
01:00:14.000 You think your daughter's in harm's way.
01:00:16.000 You can protect her.
01:00:17.000 That's your job as a parent.
01:00:18.000 Well, it's also we're denying the nuances of psychology.
01:00:22.000 That people are malleable, and there's a lot going on there.
01:00:26.000 I mean, people are not binary.
01:00:28.000 It's not one or a zero.
01:00:29.000 You're a this or a that.
01:00:30.000 You're happy or you're not, and this is going to fix it. 1.00
01:00:32.000 We just need to inject you and slice off your boobs. 1.00
01:00:35.000 That's not human. 0.99
01:00:37.000 We vary so wildly that I think for someone to look at a teenager and come to this conclusion that you, in fact, would be happier, That should be an arduous process where you're presented with all sorts of opposing information.
01:00:52.000 It's almost like you should be at a debate.
01:00:55.000 There should be pros and cons presented.
01:00:59.000 It should be something where you're looking at all life.
01:01:03.000 Like your future will be radically different if you take path A versus path B. Right.
01:01:10.000 So that's how medicine is discussed at other types of medicine at medical conferences, right?
01:01:15.000 Yes.
01:01:15.000 They have a new drug out for cholesterol and there's a conference and everyone discusses the risks and benefits and what are the harms and what is the percent chance that this could hurt?
01:01:23.000 You know, everybody is open in discussing it.
01:01:25.000 And whenever I talk to doctors who, you know, work around this issue, maybe they're an endocrinologist or whatever, they will tell me that when they attend medical conferences and transgender medicine comes up, it is a purely celebration festival.
01:01:38.000 Nobody's discussing risks.
01:01:40.000 Nobody's talking openly about them.
01:01:41.000 They can't.
01:01:43.000 Yeah, it's so hard because I've met female to male trans people, like we were talking about Buck Angel before the show, who's great.
01:01:50.000 I love him.
01:01:51.000 He's a nice guy.
01:01:52.000 He's really interesting to talk to.
01:01:54.000 I had him on the podcast.
01:01:56.000 And that makes sense.
01:01:58.000 Like, he always knew that he should have been a male and he feels way better.
01:02:02.000 And when you're around him, like, you get it.
01:02:05.000 Totally.
01:02:05.000 Totally.
01:02:06.000 And he doesn't, look, he didn't do this to win friends.
01:02:10.000 No.
01:02:10.000 He didn't do this because of social media immersion.
01:02:12.000 No YouTube star convinced Buck Angel.
01:02:15.000 He stands up to all of them all the time.
01:02:17.000 Yeah.
01:02:18.000 That is also the thing.
01:02:20.000 And he uses the term biological that they don't like.
01:02:24.000 He uses biological female, biological male.
01:02:28.000 Because he lives in reality.
01:02:30.000 He doesn't pretend that he was always biologically male.
01:02:36.000 As you're examining this, have you gone back and forth on this?
01:02:39.000 Have you had opinions that you abandoned?
01:02:43.000 Yeah.
01:02:44.000 So I'll tell you one.
01:02:46.000 The one that I think I really struggled with or that surprised me big time was people always try to get me to say it's child abuse to put your kid on puberty blockers and whatnot.
01:02:56.000 It's child abuse.
01:02:57.000 The parents are committing child abuse.
01:02:59.000 And I don't say that.
01:03:00.000 And I don't say that for a reason because I've interviewed the parents.
01:03:03.000 And once you interview parents of kids that – you know, parents who have transitioned their kids, you start talking to them and you realize that they thought they were doing what was right for their kid.
01:03:14.000 They were really scared.
01:03:15.000 They didn't know.
01:03:16.000 Like they're very concerned.
01:03:17.000 I mean they're worried.
01:03:18.000 And they've been encouraged by mental health professionals who should have been looking out for the child that if you don't do this, your child could kill herself or himself, you know.
01:03:28.000 And that's terrifying.
01:03:30.000 And sometimes I'll bring up the risks with them and they won't have heard about them.
01:03:34.000 I'll say, but, you know, just checking with you, you know, what about the long-term, you know, maybe you're foreclosing orgasm.
01:03:42.000 Like if your kid goes through all this and goes on the, you know, that to testosterone and then gets the surgeries, because they never went through normal puberty, they may never experience orgasm.
01:03:53.000 What about that?
01:03:54.000 And they'll never have heard of that.
01:03:56.000 Or, you know, we're putting so many capacities at risk.
01:04:00.000 Well, there's a real problem with the way people are willing to discuss things, that they're not willing to, in any way, address the negative aspects of transitioning.
01:04:10.000 And one of the things about hormone blockers that drove me mad was they were trying to say that you could put a child on hormone blockers, and if the child changed their mind, there would be no problem whatsoever.
01:04:20.000 Well, they've reversed that.
01:04:21.000 They've reversed that in England.
01:04:22.000 In England, they've reversed Reverse it in America, too.
01:04:25.000 Very recently, there was something that got released where they were saying, well, this is absolutely not true.
01:04:29.000 Well, this is something that people have said over and over again, progressive people in particular.
01:04:34.000 Totally neutral intervention.
01:04:36.000 That's what they've said.
01:04:37.000 Yeah.
01:04:38.000 Hey, let me relieve you of any of the stress about this because we know that there'll be no problem at all.
01:04:44.000 You can transition right back.
01:04:45.000 But you can't.
01:04:47.000 That's not true.
01:04:48.000 It'll affect your development.
01:04:49.000 That's right.
01:04:50.000 And hormones shower the brain. 1.00
01:04:54.000 I've talked to a lot of experts, but I've also talked to parents who were never told about this.
01:04:59.000 And so I don't blame them.
01:05:01.000 I just...
01:05:02.000 If you're a parent, how do you know whether your kid is in this contagion, as you put it, or your kid is actually trans?
01:05:12.000 How do you know?
01:05:12.000 And how would anyone know?
01:05:14.000 How would the person that's transitioning themselves, how would they know? 0.99
01:05:17.000 Right.
01:05:18.000 So there's symptoms in the DSM that have evolved persistent, consistent, insistent, severe discomfort.
01:05:24.000 And a two-year-old and four-year-old doesn't keep his feelings to himself. 0.98
01:05:27.000 If he hates being a boy, insists that he's really a girl, is punching his penis and whatever. 0.99
01:05:34.000 It's not something parents aren't going to know. 0.99
01:05:35.000 Okay, but isn't that a generalization?
01:05:36.000 Because people vary widely in the way they deal with things that bother them.
01:05:41.000 Right.
01:05:41.000 So I think that the DSM is a list of generalizations about different mental health disorders and different psychological afflictions.
01:05:48.000 Right. 0.99
01:05:48.000 But that, when you're talking about a boy hating their penis and the way they react, they'll let you know. 0.99
01:05:53.000 Not everybody lets you know when they're in agony or in pain or... 0.98
01:05:57.000 Kids, preschool age kids are pretty, in a typical family where there's not, you know, been abuse or mistrust or whatever, you know, kids pretty much announce, in my experience, announce almost everything.
01:06:09.000 I mean, they're really open.
01:06:11.000 I hate this.
01:06:12.000 Whatever.
01:06:13.000 They, you know, it's not the kind of thing a parent won't know.
01:06:17.000 But do you think that kids should be on hormone blockers?
01:06:22.000 I don't – I have never – look, I'm a journalist.
01:06:25.000 So I explored – I talked to everybody and I explore every side of every issue.
01:06:30.000 And I think that – Hormone blockers are really significant interventions.
01:06:37.000 They can be dangerous.
01:06:39.000 We don't fully have a handle on the long-term effects.
01:06:42.000 But am I someone who believes they should be totally banned?
01:06:45.000 I have never said that.
01:06:47.000 I've never taken that out of position because a lot of psychologists that I really respect haven't said that.
01:06:52.000 A lot of doctors that I respect haven't said that there's no one they could help.
01:06:57.000 Could you imagine that those doctors and psychologists would be in fear of expressing that they don't think it's a good idea the same way you were discussing therapists will secretly talk to you about the problems of them expressing themselves honestly?
01:07:11.000 Right.
01:07:11.000 I mean, this is how I see it.
01:07:13.000 Like, say there's one kid who could be helped by puberty blockers.
01:07:16.000 Until – I mean, I explored a lot of these issues with a lot of people.
01:07:19.000 Until, you know, psychologists I respect, people who have been very open on a lot of this stuff, until they tell me there's no children who could ever be helped by puberty blockers, I'm not someone who will come out in favor of abandoning.
01:07:31.000 I don't understand.
01:07:32.000 But that begs the question, how would one know whether your kid is the kid that could benefit from puberty blockers versus one who you really should just let become an adult and go through all the various changes that children go through?
01:07:49.000 Remember that most kids outgrow this.
01:07:52.000 That's what I'm saying.
01:07:53.000 Right.
01:07:53.000 So not doing anything, not doing a major intervention is probably in many cases a totally safe bet.
01:08:01.000 In other words, you don't have to go in there and immediately – I mean part of what's crazy about our age is we think the moment our kids are in distress, we need to medicate them.
01:08:13.000 They can never be upset, right?
01:08:15.000 We are pushing this accommodation of every discomfort and everything our kids say.
01:08:21.000 And it's pretty safe to say that there's going to be a lot of people listening to this that don't even want us talking about this because you're a stereotypical biological female. 1.00
01:08:30.000 I'm a stereotypical biological male.
01:08:32.000 And maybe a lot of people would say this is not even your space to be discussing.
01:08:38.000 Right.
01:08:38.000 So I'm not an expert in psychology.
01:08:40.000 I wrote about a peer contagion affecting teenage girls.
01:08:44.000 And I can't talk about that either.
01:08:46.000 In which I explore, I let the experts talk, you know, in the book.
01:08:50.000 I mean, that's what I did.
01:08:51.000 I put together, you know, studies.
01:08:53.000 And I mean, like, that's what journalists do.
01:08:55.000 We just put together the material based on who we interview and what they had to say and their expertise and their research.
01:09:03.000 And you know what?
01:09:04.000 It's getting shut down all over the place.
01:09:06.000 How so?
01:09:07.000 I've had podcast hosts write to me and say, I'd love to have you on It's Too Hot.
01:09:11.000 Really?
01:09:12.000 Yeah.
01:09:12.000 They'll say to me, you know, basically, and what they don't say is, a bunch of trans activists are offended that you're talking about teenage girls, the mental health of teenage girls, not the activists.
01:09:23.000 Right?
01:09:24.000 Who are mostly biological males.
01:09:26.000 This is teenage girls' health.
01:09:27.000 Why can't we talk about it?
01:09:29.000 I mean, I've had my publisher.
01:09:30.000 They're trying to get my publisher to drop me.
01:09:32.000 There's a huge campaign for that.
01:09:34.000 I mean, it's like, you know, I've used this example before, but like abortion.
01:09:39.000 Some people say abortion is just a woman's issue. 1.00
01:09:42.000 No one else can have an opinion about it.
01:09:44.000 And other people feel, like, people feel different ways about abortions.
01:09:47.000 Other people feel, wait a second, it's not just about a woman's health.
01:09:49.000 It's also the life of this unborn child.
01:09:52.000 And so, you know, people feel differently.
01:09:54.000 Like, who's allowed to have an opinion on abortion?
01:09:57.000 But this issue that I'm talking about is just about the health of teenage girls.
01:10:02.000 That's it.
01:10:02.000 So why can't we talk about what's going on with these teenage girls?
01:10:06.000 Why can't we try to get them some help?
01:10:08.000 I agree with you, but we're in 2020. People are going bonkers.
01:10:12.000 I know.
01:10:13.000 That's really what this is.
01:10:15.000 You have identified something that is...
01:10:18.000 That's a real concern when you're talking about the percentage.
01:10:21.000 When you said 2% of all these kids are identifying as trans in high school as opposed to 0.1% where it used to be.
01:10:31.000 So it used to be 1 in 10,000.
01:10:32.000 Now it's 2 out of 100. Just in the high school population.
01:10:36.000 I mean, it's like, that's a lot.
01:10:39.000 And objectively, the way you're describing that particular time period in a child's development, it is fraught with peril, right?
01:10:49.000 There's so much going on in a girl's life as she's transitioning from being a kid to being a woman and going through all the hormones and all the society and all the chaos of school and social stuff.
01:11:04.000 Right.
01:11:05.000 It's the hardest period for any woman to go through.
01:11:09.000 It's so hard, puberty, right?
01:11:11.000 Except now these girls are being taught in school and they're being encouraged online. 1.00
01:11:15.000 You have an escape hatch.
01:11:16.000 Yeah.
01:11:17.000 When you've had some discussions, you were talking about a discussion that you had on a television show with trans people.
01:11:24.000 How do they react to this?
01:11:27.000 Oh, so I haven't been on a...
01:11:29.000 The one with the...
01:11:31.000 Oh, so there I was just talking about sports.
01:11:34.000 Yeah.
01:11:35.000 That was not...
01:11:36.000 I don't think the reaction was good.
01:11:37.000 Didn't go so well.
01:11:38.000 That was just sports.
01:11:40.000 And I didn't even know they were going to be on it.
01:11:41.000 You were on with a trans athlete who's...
01:11:43.000 Two trans athletes, yeah.
01:11:44.000 What were their thoughts?
01:11:46.000 They should be allowed to break world records?
01:11:48.000 I guess.
01:11:49.000 Something like that.
01:11:50.000 They should be able to compete with women? 1.00
01:11:52.000 Yeah.
01:11:54.000 How did the host handle it?
01:11:57.000 I think he was a little nervous.
01:12:00.000 I mean, you know, nobody wants fights.
01:12:02.000 We're having trouble just having normal conversations today.
01:12:06.000 It's crazy.
01:12:07.000 Except on your show.
01:12:09.000 Well, some other people out there, too.
01:12:10.000 Well, because there is backlash.
01:12:13.000 Right. 0.99
01:12:14.000 But, again, the ones who are getting fucked over are biological women, and I just think that's crazy. 1.00
01:12:20.000 I don't understand why people are willing to kowtow to the mob like that. 0.99
01:12:24.000 And girls are noticing. 0.99
01:12:25.000 Girls know that they have fallen in regard and fallen in status in the broader culture. 0.97
01:12:30.000 They know it.
01:12:31.000 We're good to go.
01:12:53.000 Well, some organizations are recognizing that it's an issue.
01:12:57.000 Powerlifting.
01:12:57.000 They're starting to ban biological males from competing in women's divisions of powerlifting because they've literally blown the roof off what world records used to be.
01:13:08.000 Wow.
01:13:08.000 I didn't know that.
01:13:08.000 It's crazy.
01:13:10.000 I mean, there's one who was winning these world records and you looked at her and you're like, what in the fuck are you even talking about? 1.00
01:13:18.000 That is nonsense. 0.98
01:13:20.000 They can probably bench twice or something, right?
01:13:22.000 Well, we're talking about squats and cleans and presses and Olympic lifts, which are particularly...
01:13:28.000 I mean, these are really difficult to do anyway.
01:13:33.000 And to achieve the type of numbers that these trans women are achieving, they're world record numbers because they've never had a woman do that before because they really weren't born women. 0.96
01:13:44.000 Right.
01:13:44.000 So think about how many female athletes you're eliminating.
01:13:47.000 You're not just taking the trophy.
01:13:48.000 You're eliminating everyone.
01:13:50.000 You're saying that Venus and Serena Williams never existed.
01:13:53.000 Exactly.
01:13:54.000 Yeah.
01:13:54.000 Yeah.
01:13:55.000 It's a very strange thing.
01:13:57.000 And it's one of the byproducts of being progressive and open-minded and caring and loving.
01:14:03.000 We want these people to find their truth and be themselves, and we want them to do that.
01:14:07.000 But not at the expense of biological women. 0.98
01:14:10.000 You know, it shouldn't be that way.
01:14:13.000 And we're talking about athletics.
01:14:14.000 If you're talking about athletics, you're talking about physical human bodies.
01:14:17.000 And they are different.
01:14:18.000 They're different between men and women. 0.95
01:14:19.000 And anybody who says they're not, let me introduce you to a few people.
01:14:22.000 Because I know a lot of men that are freaks. 1.00
01:14:24.000 And if you tell me you know a woman that looks like that, get the fuck out of here. 1.00
01:14:29.000 Like Yoel Romero, who is one of the top UFC fighters. 0.99
01:14:34.000 If that guy decided that he was going to be a woman, And transitioned to being a woman. 1.00
01:14:39.000 You only gave him two years or whatever. 0.96
01:14:40.000 You would deal with the most spectacular woman athlete the world has ever known by far because he's a freak. 1.00
01:14:48.000 Because he's a freak as a male.
01:14:50.000 And there's that line, that spectrum, when you get into male physicality, when you get into strength, Pure energy.
01:15:01.000 The ability to lift things.
01:15:02.000 The difference between men and women is so vast.
01:15:05.000 Just grip strength.
01:15:07.000 Just the average male's grip strength in comparison to an elite female athlete's grip strength. 0.91
01:15:13.000 Average male is much more strength.
01:15:15.000 Just average guy who barely does anything.
01:15:18.000 That's right.
01:15:18.000 And think about, like, the heroes for these young girls.
01:15:22.000 I mean, I grew up in the era of, like, worshipping, like, Martina and Chris Everett in tennis.
01:15:27.000 I played tennis.
01:15:27.000 And you really look up to these women.
01:15:30.000 I mean, they're so strong.
01:15:31.000 They're so fast.
01:15:31.000 And what if all of a sudden not only did you never get to hear about Chris Everett because she was beaten long ago by a biological man, now you have a man who says he's a woman who's now—well, how many girls are lining up to be just like him?
01:15:46.000 I don't know. 0.97
01:15:47.000 The Martina Navratilova thing is where it just shows you how fucking crazy everybody's gotten. 1.00
01:15:52.000 To say that she's anti-LBGT. Like, what? 0.96
01:15:56.000 She's literally the spokeswoman.
01:15:58.000 I mean, literally, she was out before anybody.
01:16:02.000 I mean, we're dealing with a really insane byproduct of these times where people are dealing with social media, Organized groups of people attack people for having divergent opinions and this need that people have to be loved and not have people attack them.
01:16:22.000 So they'll alter their stance on things in order to appease the mob, in order to align themselves with the progressive groupthink.
01:16:33.000 It's real weird.
01:16:35.000 Yeah, it's a big problem.
01:16:37.000 And we're seeing whole populations.
01:16:38.000 I mean, this is why this problem with teenage girls got out of hand. 1.00
01:16:42.000 Well, it's just, you know, the sports thing is one thing.
01:16:46.000 This seems to be a bigger problem than the sports thing.
01:16:49.000 I mean, when you're dealing with the sports thing, what is the numbers?
01:16:51.000 It's not that It's not a lot of people.
01:16:54.000 It's not yet a lot.
01:16:55.000 It's enough that it's concerning.
01:16:57.000 If it was your child that got screwed over, if your kid was going for a basketball scholarship and all of a sudden a biological male was on her team, I don't know if you know the story about the 50-year-old biological male who transitioned, went to high school, played college basketball,
01:17:12.000 and then transitioned to being a woman and then went back to school as a woman and was in his 50s.
01:17:19.000 And playing women's college basketball. 0.99
01:17:23.000 I think he was 6'5".
01:17:26.000 He was enormous.
01:17:28.000 I mean, see if you can find that story.
01:17:30.000 50-year-old.
01:17:31.000 He was more than 50. And then playing college basketball competing.
01:17:36.000 Wow.
01:17:37.000 Now imagine if your daughter is playing college basketball, looking to get a scholarship. 0.89
01:17:41.000 She keeps getting stuffed by this gigantic former dude who is now on her college basketball team at 50 years old.
01:17:51.000 This is women's rights that are disappearing. 1.00
01:17:53.000 We're rolling them back, right?
01:17:54.000 I mean, when Title IX came in, right, that gave scholarships to young women who worked so hard.
01:18:02.000 Who are so talented.
01:18:03.000 These are young women we should be so proud of.
01:18:05.000 And their achievements are being erased right now.
01:18:08.000 And you're right.
01:18:09.000 It's not yet a widespread social problem, right?
01:18:12.000 You figure...
01:18:13.000 Oh, wow.
01:18:14.000 L-O-L. Wow.
01:18:17.000 Come on.
01:18:18.000 I understand.
01:18:20.000 That you want to be a woman.
01:18:22.000 I get it.
01:18:23.000 I'll change the name I call you.
01:18:26.000 But listen, man.
01:18:28.000 Or ma'am. 0.99
01:18:30.000 You can't do this.
01:18:31.000 You can't do this.
01:18:32.000 This is not fair.
01:18:35.000 And think about all the girls who don't bother going out for the team. 0.98
01:18:38.000 Right. 1.00
01:18:38.000 They see that and they're like, fuck. 1.00
01:18:39.000 Or a girl who would compete for that position. 1.00
01:18:42.000 Forget it.
01:18:42.000 And she can't get it.
01:18:43.000 Yeah.
01:18:43.000 They give up.
01:18:44.000 I mean, that's just rational to give up.
01:18:46.000 Male body.
01:18:47.000 Yeah.
01:18:47.000 They're going to get hurt.
01:18:49.000 They don't want to get hurt.
01:18:50.000 Exactly.
01:18:54.000 When you say that you've experienced all this...
01:19:02.000 What's the best way to describe it?
01:19:04.000 Pressure on your publisher.
01:19:06.000 People are angry at you.
01:19:08.000 Have you ever thought you shouldn't have done this?
01:19:12.000 You shouldn't have written this book? 0.99
01:19:13.000 Has it ever been enough of a pain in the ass that you were like, I made a mistake. 0.99
01:19:17.000 I shouldn't have entered into these waters? 0.99
01:19:19.000 Has that ever entered you?
01:19:21.000 Yeah, I mean, of course, right?
01:19:24.000 I mean, I think, you know, people like the book a lot.
01:19:27.000 You know, thank God they like the book.
01:19:29.000 They're happy.
01:19:29.000 You know, it's a good read.
01:19:31.000 But do I like all the negative attention?
01:19:34.000 No.
01:19:35.000 I mean, I'm not a provocateur.
01:19:37.000 Like, that's not my thing.
01:19:38.000 You know, I'm just a journalist and I looked into a mental health issue and it makes people really angry.
01:19:44.000 And do I like that?
01:19:45.000 No.
01:19:46.000 But...
01:19:48.000 This is how I see it, okay?
01:19:49.000 This is how I saw it as I was going through, but I believe this, okay?
01:19:54.000 What's in this book is the truth.
01:19:56.000 It's a real story.
01:19:57.000 It's a real phenomenon.
01:19:58.000 I'm irrelevant.
01:19:59.000 If I didn't write this book, eventually some other journalists would have. 0.66
01:20:02.000 So all the anger at me is silly.
01:20:05.000 Read the book.
01:20:06.000 Disagree with it.
01:20:06.000 Maybe you don't think I got something right.
01:20:09.000 Tell me.
01:20:09.000 Fine.
01:20:10.000 Or don't tell me.
01:20:10.000 Write an article about it.
01:20:12.000 But if I hadn't written it, somebody else would have.
01:20:15.000 Because it's what's going on.
01:20:17.000 It describes a real phenomenon.
01:20:18.000 And I think these activists would prefer to keep scaring people to the point where nobody does read this because they think being trans should never be questioned.
01:20:29.000 Nothing about being trans ever should be questioned.
01:20:32.000 Right, which is crazy because you know what?
01:20:36.000 This has nothing to do with the activists.
01:20:38.000 It doesn't.
01:20:39.000 Like, teenage girls are in crisis.
01:20:42.000 They really are.
01:20:43.000 And their experience has nothing to do with, you know, what activists are going through.
01:20:48.000 And we should be able to investigate it and see if they're getting the mental health they need, these teenage girls. 1.00
01:20:53.000 And that's all it does.
01:20:55.000 And that just shouldn't be controversial.
01:20:58.000 Yeah, and if this book reaches one parent that can reach one child and show them this book and explain to them that there's something going on that can influence you physically, mentally, psychologically, you could be very confused and you could think that this is the path towards happiness and cause yourself irreparable damage and still not be happy.
01:21:21.000 I get calls every day from parents.
01:21:23.000 So I got a call just this week.
01:21:24.000 I got tons of calls, literally every day.
01:21:26.000 I got a call this week.
01:21:28.000 So I leave my messages open on Twitter in case they need to get, you know, there are great resources out there.
01:21:33.000 Fourth Wave Now, Parents of ROGD Kids, there are great resources, but sometimes they don't know about them.
01:21:39.000 Because, you know, all these resources need vetting processes now because the activists attack them.
01:21:45.000 So they'll call me.
01:21:46.000 I got a call from a woman this week.
01:21:47.000 And she was sobbing because parents usually cry when they're on the phone because it's about their kid.
01:21:52.000 And you know what she said to me?
01:21:53.000 She said, I feel this is a progressive woman in a progressive city in America, totally not religious, you know.
01:21:59.000 And she's sobbing.
01:22:00.000 And she said to me...
01:22:01.000 I can't believe I get – my daughter started down this road and I can't believe I get the benefit because of other parents who went through this who were brave enough to talk.
01:22:10.000 I'm so grateful to them.
01:22:12.000 Is there a way that I can do something for them?
01:22:14.000 And I just thought, wow.
01:22:16.000 That's heavy.
01:22:17.000 Yeah.
01:22:19.000 What an incredible woman. 1.00
01:22:21.000 Like what an amazing – like that's who I get calls from.
01:22:24.000 Yeah, and it seems like that's really the only way these people that are going through this with their children are ever going to get any light at the end of the tunnel is to see that some people have already done this and to learn from the mistakes of the past and to learn from the problems that these kids have encountered.
01:22:41.000 Upon transitioning and that this group think model, this contagion as you describe it, does happen to kids.
01:22:50.000 It happens with cutting.
01:22:51.000 It happens with even suicide packs.
01:22:54.000 It happens with a lot of weird stuff that kids, particularly kids that feel like they're outcasts and they're depressed.
01:23:01.000 It's a real problem.
01:23:04.000 Yeah, there's a great book on this.
01:23:06.000 There are a bunch of really great books.
01:23:09.000 One of them, Lee Daniel Kravitz, wrote this book, Strange Contagion, about these suicides that went through a community in Palo Alto.
01:23:17.000 So all of a sudden, there were a bunch of suicides at one high school.
01:23:21.000 And what's happening is kids are imitating each other.
01:23:24.000 And then they get this idea.
01:23:25.000 Like you said, they're open to suggestion.
01:23:27.000 They feel unhappy.
01:23:28.000 And now they know several other kids who committed suicide. 1.00
01:23:32.000 Maybe I should kill myself. 0.99
01:23:34.000 I just failed chemistry or whatever. 0.99
01:23:37.000 And it becomes a thing in their minds that's always an option.
01:23:41.000 And that's what transition has become.
01:23:43.000 It's an out.
01:23:45.000 It's one of the first things.
01:23:46.000 I mean, I think about cutting, right?
01:23:48.000 So I grew up a 1978 baby.
01:23:51.000 So I'm 42. So cutting, I missed cutting.
01:23:53.000 That didn't exist, okay, when I was a teenager.
01:23:57.000 But I thought when I heard about it, because I heard about it from younger, just kids younger than me.
01:24:01.000 I would come back from college or whatever, hear about all this cutting.
01:24:04.000 And I used to think like, wow, I'm glad I didn't know about that.
01:24:07.000 I was neurotic.
01:24:09.000 I was high anxiety.
01:24:10.000 Maybe I would have done that.
01:24:11.000 Nobody told me about cutting as like an option.
01:24:14.000 Right.
01:24:14.000 But kids who are looking for a way to manifest their distress, they look to the culture and they look to their friends.
01:24:23.000 What could be done different in terms of some education or programs or some sort of psychological help in groups of kids to let kids know in school like we address all these different aspects of a child's development like mathematics and English and history but we spend very little time addressing the one thing that is probably most important is how they interface with the world psychology and what what's wrong what's going on inside of them and We're
01:24:55.000 good to go.
01:25:11.000 So I think that's a brilliant idea.
01:25:13.000 I mean, I never considered teaching kids about psychology.
01:25:15.000 I never encountered psychology until I was in college.
01:25:17.000 And I think that's an amazing idea.
01:25:19.000 The problem is, is that these kids are getting indoctrinated instead of, you know, instead of exploring a topic, they're getting indoctrinated in gender ideology.
01:25:28.000 California starts in kindergarten.
01:25:30.000 This is a mandated part of the curriculum you can't opt out of.
01:25:33.000 What are they saying?
01:25:34.000 So, you know, it varies by class, obviously.
01:25:37.000 But, you know, they explore.
01:25:40.000 First, they have to introduce the gender stereotypes.
01:25:42.000 And then they explore genders in various, you know, classrooms.
01:25:45.000 This goes on in California as part of the framework.
01:25:48.000 There's a whole curriculum.
01:25:49.000 And there are books they supply.
01:25:51.000 And they explore, you know, what is a girl body? 0.91
01:25:55.000 And what is, you know, they explore the gender unicorn or the gender-bred person.
01:25:59.000 And And they teach them that, you know, your genitalia does not mean that you're necessarily a boy.
01:26:06.000 You might be something else.
01:26:07.000 You might be gender nonconforming.
01:26:09.000 You might be nonbinary.
01:26:11.000 These kids all know these terms.
01:26:14.000 They have every option.
01:26:16.000 And the problem with that is then they hit 11 and they start to develop or, you know, they hit a hard time.
01:26:23.000 Their parents divorce.
01:26:23.000 They move.
01:26:24.000 Whatever.
01:26:24.000 Things get hard.
01:26:25.000 And these options leap to mind.
01:26:27.000 Oh, my God.
01:26:28.000 I heard about this.
01:26:29.000 I might be a boy.
01:26:33.000 That seems crazy that they're teaching kids that early.
01:26:39.000 And to teach them that, I mean, how comprehensive is this class?
01:26:44.000 I mean, how much time do they spend doing this?
01:26:46.000 Are the parents involved?
01:26:48.000 Do the parents get to see what's being taught to them and discuss it with them?
01:26:53.000 Very often parents will ask for the curriculum and not get it.
01:26:56.000 And there are all kinds of ways they supply it.
01:26:58.000 There's digital libraries they provide in California to the teachers and There's all kinds of ways that this is taught.
01:27:05.000 Sometimes it's taught with videos and there is curriculum and the curricula are usually supplied by activist groups.
01:27:13.000 And it's very confusing.
01:27:16.000 Parents aren't allowed to opt out of this in California.
01:27:19.000 Really?
01:27:20.000 Yeah.
01:27:20.000 Because it's not part of the sexual education curriculum that you're allowed to opt out of.
01:27:24.000 It's part of the anti-bullying curriculum.
01:27:26.000 Whoa.
01:27:27.000 And you can't opt out of anti-bullying.
01:27:29.000 Everybody has to, you know, treat each other well.
01:27:31.000 It's also the word activism.
01:27:33.000 It sounds like you're doing a good thing.
01:27:35.000 You know, like all activism is under the same blanket, whether it's, you know, anti-racism activism or, you know, gender nonconformity, non-binary, 50 different pronoun activism.
01:27:49.000 And, you know, it's a lot of it is indoctrination.
01:27:51.000 It's indoctrination to progressive groupthink.
01:27:54.000 And it's not necessarily what you would really think of.
01:27:57.000 When you think of activism, you think of the civil rights movement.
01:28:00.000 You think of activism.
01:28:01.000 You think of positive things and changes that we want to take place.
01:28:05.000 But when you're dealing with children and developing human beings and minds, and you're dealing with an influential person who's standing in front of these people who's older, We're good to go.
01:28:36.000 What are we doing to children?
01:28:38.000 Has this been vetted?
01:28:39.000 Is this something where we're all in agreement on this sort of education process for children?
01:28:47.000 Right.
01:28:47.000 So they're reading books like I Am Jazz in California to kids, and that suggests that you might – and it tells kids that you might have a boy's brain and a girl's body.
01:28:55.000 They're being taught this as if this is true, right?
01:28:58.000 Now, of course, there's no evidence that you could ever have a boy's brain in a girl's body.
01:29:03.000 I mean, it doesn't make sense, right?
01:29:04.000 But they're taught that alongside things that are factual, that are biological.
01:29:09.000 But if someone is a trans person, so if you are a boy who feels like you should be a girl, wouldn't you think that that is how you would describe it?
01:29:18.000 You have a girl's brain in a boy's body? 1.00
01:29:22.000 Oh, I don't think so.
01:29:23.000 I mean, there are some evidence that there are neurological differences, you know, that, you know, is certainly worthy of study.
01:29:32.000 I mean, it's open to various kinds of interpretation and it's a new area that's being studied and there may be differences in transgender people's brains.
01:29:40.000 There might be.
01:29:42.000 I certainly would not say that there aren't.
01:29:44.000 But a boy's brain, I mean, every cell in a boy's body is stamped with an XY chromosome, right? 1.00
01:29:50.000 So the idea that somehow an XX-chromosomed brain got stuck into his head is kind of silly, right?
01:29:57.000 It's sort of more like tooth fairy stuff.
01:29:59.000 Yeah, it would be fascinating if it was true.
01:30:02.000 I mean, imagine if you could run a scan, like, oh my god, your brain's pink.
01:30:06.000 Now we know what's wrong.
01:30:07.000 Right, exactly.
01:30:08.000 It would be wonderful if it was that simple.
01:30:10.000 Like, oh, you have a cavity.
01:30:12.000 We can give you a filling.
01:30:14.000 I mean, it's such a hot-button subject.
01:30:19.000 And when this gets discussed, anytime it gets discussed on this podcast, and I'm assuming on any podcast, It's just people explode and they get so angry about it.
01:30:28.000 But where people are getting more and more sensible is when it comes to sports.
01:30:33.000 I mean, that seems to be where the rubber hits the road.
01:30:37.000 It really does.
01:30:38.000 It seems to be where people are going, hey, this doesn't seem right.
01:30:43.000 You know, and particularly like the fighting one to me was like so egregious and so obvious.
01:30:49.000 I'm hopeful that this is a transitionary period for our culture and that we realize, like, yes, you should be kind.
01:30:57.000 Yes, you should be progressive and open to all these different people that have all these different ways of being and existing in this world, but not at the expense of other people.
01:31:07.000 In particular, let's not pretend that that 6'5 gentleman who's 50 is the same as your 18-year-old daughter who's in college.
01:31:15.000 Because it's not.
01:31:16.000 We're playing games.
01:31:18.000 We're playing weird ideological games.
01:31:20.000 And we know we are.
01:31:21.000 And I think sports is – you're totally right.
01:31:24.000 I mean, Americans are very proud of their female athletes.
01:31:26.000 We have been for decades and decades.
01:31:28.000 And now you're telling them that none of them would exist today, could exist, because we'd let biological men take away their trophies. 0.97
01:31:35.000 I mean, sports is about bodies.
01:31:37.000 It's not about identification.
01:31:38.000 Nobody asks you how you identify before you run a raise.
01:31:41.000 It's just about bodies.
01:31:43.000 It is.
01:31:44.000 And it's real clear that they're very different, which is why we have men's divisions and women's divisions.
01:31:50.000 What is it like for teenage boys?
01:31:55.000 Did you look into that at all?
01:31:57.000 I did.
01:31:58.000 Did they have similar sort of issues with transitioning?
01:32:01.000 Yeah, so teenage boys is a harder case because I think for a few reasons.
01:32:05.000 Are there boys whose moms will call me and say, And I didn't focus on the boys and I didn't do it for a really important reason,
01:32:28.000 but I think it's worthy of explanation and exploration.
01:32:32.000 I didn't focus on the boys because with the girls it's clear.
01:32:36.000 Because we have known for 100 years that there's a thing called gender dysphoria and it overwhelmingly afflicts males.
01:32:42.000 And now, out of nowhere, across America and across the West, the predominant demographic is teenage girls with no childhood history.
01:32:51.000 We know that's not typical gender dysphoria.
01:32:55.000 So then the question is, what is it, right?
01:32:58.000 But with boys, it's more complicated because there have always been these boys, these males, who have had real gender dysphoria.
01:33:03.000 So I think a lot more research has to be done in that area.
01:33:07.000 And the problem is, it's hard to do it.
01:33:10.000 Lisa Littman, who's the one who did the study on the teenage girls, she's been trying to study detransitioners.
01:33:16.000 She's doing great studies on detransitioners, women who regret it because, well, all people who regret it, but a lot of them are now women. 0.94
01:33:23.000 And the reason, of course, they're now women is because they never had gender dysphoria. 0.84
01:33:26.000 So they weren't cured by medical transition.
01:33:28.000 So now they regret it.
01:33:29.000 And they're called detransitioners, right? 1.00
01:33:32.000 And she's already had her study undermined because a bunch of people, trans activists on social media said, everyone come and validate the study essentially.
01:33:40.000 And they all did.
01:33:41.000 So they falsified her results, right?
01:33:43.000 Because they ruined the results.
01:33:44.000 The study had to be scrapped and now she's redoing, she's trying to redo it.
01:33:47.000 How did they falsify her results?
01:33:48.000 Well, they took the survey, but they were able to skew the results, right?
01:33:55.000 And she saw on social media they were directing people to take the study to mess up the results.
01:34:00.000 So now we have a population, detransitioners, that we need to study, we need to learn from, and you can't. 1.00
01:34:07.000 It's hard.
01:34:08.000 And that's cancel culture right there.
01:34:11.000 That's shutting down medical study that will help us understand more about gender transition and more about gender dysphoria and also this population of teenage girls. 0.99
01:34:22.000 And it's hard to even study them.
01:34:24.000 Yeah, I was looking at a discussion about, there was a particular website that was dealing with male to female transitioners who then went back to being male again.
01:34:33.000 And they were furious at this page and furious at these people for expressing their story.
01:34:40.000 And I was like, I was looking at this and I was thinking to myself, it's so strange that you're looking at, when you're talking about someone who transitions, You're talking about a very small percentage of the population that is a male that feels they should be a female to begin with.
01:34:59.000 And then you have this surgery, and you have this chemical or hormonal intervention, and you change your body, and you change who you are, and then regret.
01:35:12.000 And then coming back.
01:35:13.000 And they were so vehemently opposed to this website.
01:35:18.000 I'm like, but couldn't you imagine?
01:35:22.000 Imagine a person who's gone through this change, so you know that you are very different than someone like Jamie, who doesn't have this issue, right?
01:35:32.000 Who's just a man. 0.92
01:35:34.000 You know that people are different.
01:35:35.000 So why would you think that there's no way anybody could go through that and have regret?
01:35:42.000 Because people vary so much, but they were so in opposition to these people's stories, and they were saying that essentially this is These people putting this website out was hate speech, and this is promoting anti-trans feelings and thinking.
01:36:01.000 Because their line is that detransitioners don't exist, or they're so marginal, we shouldn't even discuss it.
01:36:06.000 Exactly.
01:36:07.000 Except that when a scientist in good faith tries to study it, they try to invalidate her results.
01:36:13.000 So we're trying to figure out how big a problem is regret.
01:36:17.000 Right?
01:36:18.000 And it's hard to know.
01:36:19.000 I mean, she's redoing the study, but it's hard to know.
01:36:21.000 And what you just said is exactly right.
01:36:23.000 People have different experiences, okay?
01:36:25.000 This does not invalidate your experience.
01:36:27.000 Exactly.
01:36:28.000 Exactly.
01:36:28.000 And that's the problem.
01:36:29.000 And I guess they would point to someone who's anti-trans would point to that website and go see these anecdotal stories of people that transitioned that had a horrible time of it and hated it and went back.
01:36:41.000 This is everyone.
01:36:43.000 And the other people just in denial.
01:36:44.000 Right. 1.00
01:36:44.000 Well, that's stupid. 1.00
01:36:45.000 Yeah, it is stupid. 1.00
01:36:46.000 It is stupid. 1.00
01:36:47.000 It denies nuance. 1.00
01:36:48.000 Right.
01:36:49.000 And also differentiate.
01:36:50.000 People have – we know that there are different causes of the same kind of symptoms.
01:36:56.000 I use the example in my book.
01:36:57.000 I mean osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis.
01:37:00.000 Apparently one of the experts I talked to, Ray Blanchard, gave the example.
01:37:04.000 They both cause swollen fingers.
01:37:06.000 OK. So you've got two types of people who say they're transgender.
01:37:10.000 One who's genuinely suffering gender dysphoria and always has in childhood and another who discovered it on the internet with her friends.
01:37:16.000 So now we're supposed to pretend those are the exact same conditions and we're not supposed to look at them or explore them or figure out what's the difference.
01:37:24.000 Now, when you present – have you ever presented this discussion to someone who opposes you and how – or this argument to someone who opposes you and how do they treat that?
01:37:33.000 Just what you just said right there, which is very concise.
01:37:38.000 You know, I try.
01:37:39.000 I've engaged with all kinds of people online, you know, and I always invite people to talk to me in a reasonable way.
01:37:45.000 I can't think of, you know, a good, you know, response that I've...
01:37:49.000 Well, let me think.
01:37:50.000 Okay.
01:37:51.000 So sometimes people will say, and I get this, and I actually think this is a good response to me.
01:37:56.000 They'll say to me, but if you make it harder, if your book makes it harder, number one, people are going to misconstrue it.
01:38:03.000 They're going to think this applies to everybody, which is a legitimate concern, right?
01:38:08.000 And then somebody who's really gender dysphoric who needs these surgeries won't be able to get them, right?
01:38:14.000 And also they're going to think that everybody would regret and no one's helped by transition and some of these people might, you know, come to harm because of that.
01:38:22.000 I think that's a legitimate response, right?
01:38:24.000 And it's not compelling to me because my attitude is let's discuss it all.
01:38:30.000 Let's investigate this.
01:38:32.000 Right.
01:38:32.000 Let's talk to more experts.
01:38:33.000 Let's get more science here and figure out what's going on.
01:38:36.000 And by the resistance to your book and the resistance to these conversations, you realize that people are not looking at this objectively.
01:38:42.000 This is not something that everyone's looking at all sides of it.
01:38:45.000 They're not.
01:38:45.000 They are activists.
01:38:48.000 They have this agenda.
01:38:49.000 This agenda is very ideologically driven that anybody who even thinks they might be trans should be trans.
01:38:55.000 And the more trans people, the better.
01:38:58.000 The more kids that transition, the better.
01:39:00.000 And then they say, but some are gender fluid.
01:39:03.000 So the activists will say, some kids are gender fluid.
01:39:05.000 And you say, well, then why would you push permanent hormonal intervention and surgeries on someone who might later decide that they were fine as a woman, right?
01:39:14.000 I mean, that you've just acknowledged with gender fluid.
01:39:16.000 I mean, this thing is all over the place.
01:39:18.000 I have surgeons.
01:39:20.000 Surgeons will give this surgery.
01:39:21.000 They'll remove healthy breasts for a woman who says she's non-binary. 1.00
01:39:25.000 So she doesn't even say she's really a man.
01:39:27.000 She says she's non-binary now.
01:39:29.000 Well, wait.
01:39:30.000 I thought the whole point of the surgery was to help this woman become who she really is, a man.
01:39:37.000 But now you're saying that you'll give it to 16-year-old girls who say they're non-binary.
01:39:42.000 The medical explanation seems to be shifting.
01:39:46.000 And if we're supposed to accept people as they are, shouldn't non-binary people just be themselves? 0.99
01:39:51.000 Like, why are we introducing hormones into their body? 0.95
01:39:56.000 Why is that the best approach?
01:39:59.000 This is what's so confusing.
01:40:00.000 If someone feels they were born a woman, why can't you just be a woman? 1.00
01:40:06.000 If someone feels they're born binary or asexual or whatever, or gender fluid, just be who you are.
01:40:14.000 I think in part because of social media and in part because of the gender ideology in the schools, everybody needs their little identity, right? 0.64
01:40:22.000 So we're dividing people up like insects, right?
01:40:25.000 Everybody needs their special bucket, their special label.
01:40:28.000 Well, that was one of the weirdest things about the Caitlyn Jenner thing, when she transitioned and then had surgery. 0.81
01:40:33.000 You know, there was an interview where she was saying, well, I finally did get the surgery.
01:40:39.000 Not that I wasn't completely a woman before the surgery.
01:40:44.000 And I was thinking, well, why would you get the surgery then?
01:40:47.000 Well, did she get the bottom surgery? 1.00
01:40:49.000 The bottom surgery.
01:40:50.000 Do you know?
01:40:50.000 That's what they call it.
01:40:51.000 Is that what they call it?
01:40:52.000 Yes.
01:40:52.000 Oh, I didn't know that.
01:40:54.000 Yes!
01:40:55.000 Yeah, she got the bottom surgery. 1.00
01:40:56.000 But that was her argument, was that she was completely woman, all woman, before that.
01:41:02.000 We're in la-la land.
01:41:04.000 Right.
01:41:04.000 So that's religion, right?
01:41:06.000 Exactly.
01:41:06.000 I mean, that's not science.
01:41:08.000 You can't say, I was always a woman, but then the surgery will make me a woman.
01:41:11.000 Right.
01:41:12.000 The hormones made me a woman, but I was always a woman.
01:41:13.000 Right.
01:41:14.000 The surgery makes me a woman, but I was always a woman.
01:41:17.000 Right.
01:41:18.000 A quart of estrogen every couple of weeks.
01:41:20.000 I don't know.
01:41:21.000 Whatever we decide, you know, as a group, it's very confusing.
01:41:28.000 And then people say, why do you even care?
01:41:31.000 Like, why is this something that you're obsessed with? 0.99
01:41:33.000 Well, I care about people and I care about weird shit. 0.96
01:41:36.000 I care about when things get weird. 0.97
01:41:38.000 When I see teenage girls, and I have all daughters, when I see teenage girls and I see this issue that you're talking about, we're 2%.
01:41:47.000 2% are succumbing to this.
01:41:48.000 I know how awkward it is.
01:41:50.000 I've seen it.
01:41:51.000 I know how awkward it is for everybody growing up. 0.99
01:41:53.000 Growing up is fucking crazy. 0.99
01:41:55.000 Yeah. 0.99
01:41:56.000 I mean, you have no idea what the future holds.
01:41:58.000 You don't know if you're going to come out on the other end okay.
01:42:00.000 You just don't know.
01:42:01.000 That's exactly right.
01:42:02.000 And adults have forgotten.
01:42:04.000 They've started treating these kids like prophets.
01:42:07.000 It's like the moment they say they're trans, it's like, oh, everyone, stop what you're doing. 1.00
01:42:10.000 Forget that she's 13 years old.
01:42:13.000 Listen to the prophet.
01:42:14.000 Whatever she says about herself must be correct.
01:42:16.000 That is a great way to put it.
01:42:17.000 That is a great way to put it. 1.00
01:42:19.000 Because, yeah, when I was 13, I was a fucking moron. 1.00
01:42:23.000 Thank God I never had an idea to change my gender when I was 13. Right. 1.00
01:42:28.000 It's, I'm hoping that over time people realize you can be both open-minded and progressive and kind and also aware of the pitfalls of a very real problem.
01:42:41.000 And that's what this seems to be.
01:42:43.000 It seems to be a very real problem that Again, I gravitate towards things people shy away from.
01:42:48.000 So people are shying away from this.
01:42:50.000 I'm like, why?
01:42:51.000 Like, why are we shying away from this?
01:42:53.000 Why is everyone so scared of this trans subject?
01:42:55.000 Why is everyone so scared?
01:42:56.000 Well, it's because of social media.
01:42:58.000 It's because of these activist mobs. 0.93
01:43:00.000 They're not doing themselves any good and they're not doing the whole idea of being a trans person any good because they make people associate trans people With the types of mobs that attack Martina Navratilova, the type of mobs that go after these studies that show detransitioners and what their experience were and fuck up the study. 0.73
01:43:21.000 And you know what?
01:43:22.000 Transgender adults reach out to me online all the time and say that. 0.98
01:43:25.000 They say to me, you know, I'm embarrassed by this crazy activist group. 0.90
01:43:29.000 I don't want people to think that I'm like that. 0.68
01:43:32.000 I don't support their mobbing.
01:43:35.000 And I just say that, you know, whenever I'm interviewed, I say, listen, this is not, you know, the activists don't represent all transgender adults by a long shot.
01:43:44.000 You know?
01:43:46.000 So where do you go from here?
01:43:48.000 What's your next book going to be about?
01:43:49.000 I don't know.
01:43:52.000 Take something a little less, I don't know.
01:43:54.000 Flowers.
01:43:54.000 Right, exactly.
01:43:56.000 This is my favorite flower.
01:43:58.000 Something real easy.
01:43:59.000 I mean, what have you written about before this?
01:44:02.000 Have you written books before this?
01:44:03.000 No, it's just, you know, I write for the Wall Street Journal most often and I write opinion journalists.
01:44:08.000 This is my first book.
01:44:09.000 Woo! 0.99
01:44:09.000 And, you know, it's like one of those things, like once I got down the rabbit hole, I thought, wow, this is really true. 0.99
01:44:15.000 And I realized something, you know, nobody could write about it.
01:44:20.000 I had teachers telling me they couldn't speak up about what was going on in the classrooms.
01:44:23.000 I had therapists afraid, doctors afraid.
01:44:26.000 And I realized if journalists aren't going to talk about this, who will?
01:44:29.000 Yeah.
01:44:30.000 Well, I'm glad you did.
01:44:31.000 I really am.
01:44:32.000 And I'm glad we got a chance to talk about this.
01:44:35.000 And I hope people listen to this with an open mind and just listen to it.
01:44:40.000 And this doesn't discount anyone who's trans.
01:44:42.000 It really doesn't.
01:44:43.000 This is not what we're talking about here.
01:44:46.000 And if you are trans and genuinely trans and happy being trans, You should want people to understand that there's other things going on.
01:44:56.000 Right, exactly.
01:44:56.000 That we're not talking about you.
01:44:57.000 This is a condition that young girls are facing as they become adults and going through these crazy hormonal transitions and social transitions, and it can damage them.
01:45:10.000 Yeah, that's exactly right.
01:45:12.000 Thank you, Abigail.
01:45:13.000 Thank you.
01:45:13.000 It's called Irreversible Damage, the transgender craze seducing our daughters, and it's available right now.
01:45:20.000 Thank you.
01:45:21.000 Stay offline.
01:45:22.000 Don't read the comments.