The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1519 - Mike Baker

00:00:01.000 Hello, Mike Baker.

00:00:02.000 Hello, Joe Rogan.

00:00:03.000 Brought your laptop this time, huh?

00:00:05.000 Look at that laptop.

00:00:06.000 I got a pad of paper.

00:00:08.000 I got a pen.

00:00:09.000 There's many issues.

00:00:10.000 Thank you for my COVID test.

00:00:12.000 Ah, yeah, we needed that.

00:00:13.000 Yeah.

00:00:13.000 Yeah, we're doing them every week now.

00:00:15.000 I don't even know how many times I've been tested, but it's good to know.

00:00:20.000 It's good to know.

00:00:20.000 It's odd that you can travel across the country and find that some places it takes you 10 days to get a response.

00:00:27.000 Sometimes it takes 20 minutes to get a response.

00:00:30.000 That part I don't understand.

00:00:31.000 Well, those super-duper ones they have at the White House, they can get those in 20 minutes.

00:00:34.000 The ones we have here, you can get Well, the 10-minute one, see the antibody blood test will show you in 10 minutes whether or not you have, this is the FDA approved ones that we use here, they show you whether or not you have active antibodies, meaning a recent infection, you're probably currently fighting off the virus,

00:00:50.000 or whether or not it's an old infection, so you had the virus and beat it, and then the nose swab will say definitively if you've got it in your system.

00:00:59.000 No, if they come back during the course of this show and say that I've got it, am I quarantined in the studio?

00:01:04.000 Yeah, well, the antibody is already negative, so most likely you don't have it.

00:01:08.000 Oh, good.

00:01:09.000 Okay, good.

00:01:09.000 I feel better.

00:01:10.000 There you go.

00:01:11.000 Turn this thing towards you, will you?

00:01:13.000 Sorry.

00:01:14.000 So how do you feel about all this?

00:01:17.000 You weirded out?

00:01:18.000 No.

00:01:18.000 You haven't been here since COVID, right?

00:01:21.000 Yeah, we were, I think the last time, it was before then, just before then, it started to settle in.

00:01:26.000 And then I traveled last, it was mid-February, I was in New York City, and it was starting to, people were starting to be aware, right?

00:01:34.000 And they were talking about it a little bit, but there were really no changes in behavior.

00:01:38.000 And then it really hit, and everybody went into a hurry lockdown.

00:01:42.000 You know, the good thing is pandemics don't last, right?

00:01:46.000 So we're gonna get past this.

00:01:47.000 This is not like the zombie apocalypse.

00:01:48.000 So I'm not one of those people that, you know, is hiding in my bunker, even though I like my bunker.

00:01:54.000 What kind of bunker you got?

00:01:55.000 They could bunker.

00:01:56.000 I bet you do.

00:01:57.000 I bet you have a real one, right?

00:01:58.000 I do.

00:01:59.000 One that screws like a fucking submarine. 1.00

00:02:02.000 A little periscope that comes up, looks around the compound. 1.00

00:02:05.000 It looks like a gopher.

00:02:08.000 Yeah, we use it for a variety of reasons.

00:02:11.000 But it's...

00:02:12.000 I'm not...

00:02:13.000 I mean, I'm worried because it's serious, and of course it's tragic to lose anybody, and we've lost over 150,000 people, but you've also got to keep this in context, right?

00:02:23.000 I mean, we've had pandemics before.

00:02:25.000 Pandemic just means it crossed international boundaries.

00:02:27.000 So...

00:02:29.000 There's an element here.

00:02:31.000 Two things can be true.

00:02:32.000 You can believe the science, which of course you should do.

00:02:34.000 You should pay attention to statistics and data and do the best things you can do. 0.50

00:02:38.000 But you can also look at it and go, we're kind of fucked because part of this problem is the coverage of it because of political reasons.

00:02:47.000 Not to jump right into the political thing, but I can't help but think that we wouldn't have quite as much confusion and we wouldn't have quite as much...

00:03:00.000 The angst that people are feeling.

00:03:02.000 If it weren't for the visceral hatred that exists out there on some sectors for the president, and again, I don't have a dog in the hunt, but I have a feeling like the tone of coverage will change in November if Biden wins.

00:03:19.000 And science doesn't change, right? 0.99

00:03:21.000 It's still the same fucking virus. 0.98

00:03:23.000 But I just have a feeling that we'll see a tone change. 0.99

00:03:27.000 Suddenly it'll be a little bit more about if Biden wins.

00:03:29.000 It'll be more about, yeah, let's look on the bright side.

00:03:32.000 Let's get this coverage sorted out.

00:03:34.000 Let's get the country working.

00:03:35.000 Let's do these things.

00:03:37.000 And, you know, again, you can believe both things. 0.96

00:03:40.000 You can believe that we're fucked because of the politics and you can also believe the science. 0.96

00:03:44.000 My friend got tested, turned out positive, and the doctor asked him what his political leanings are. 0.99

00:03:51.000 And he said, why?

00:03:52.000 And he said, well, I really believe in hydroxychloroquine, but a lot of people who are Democrats who don't like the president don't want to use it.

00:03:59.000 I'm like, that is hilarious.

00:04:01.000 And he goes, hydroxychloroquine, when used correctly, he said, particularly in the early stages of the virus, seems to be very effective.

00:04:08.000 Now, there's all these people that are coming out and saying it's not, and there's all these people that are coming out.

00:04:12.000 And I talked to my doctor about it, and I said, well, why do you think that it's – because the doctor that I use currently, he recommends it for people that are high-risk as a prophylactic.

00:04:22.000 That's the way Trump is supposedly taking it.

00:04:24.000 He's like, it's actually...

00:04:26.000 There's a study that shows that it's very effective.

00:04:27.000 A study from Italy that shows it's very effective as a prophylactic.

00:04:31.000 And he says, also, when you get it, you catch the virus, and then you get it quickly.

00:04:38.000 So if you can get hydroxychloroquine in you quickly. 0.99

00:04:40.000 But, you know, look, I'm a moron. 1.00

00:04:43.000 I don't know who the fuck to believe. 1.00

00:04:44.000 So I read all this shit. 1.00

00:04:45.000 I'm like, well, do I believe the doctor? 1.00

00:04:47.000 Do I believe all these other doctors that say it's bullshit? 0.98

00:04:50.000 Do I believe that whole team of doctors... 1.00

00:04:53.000 By the way, Andrew Schultz has a fucking hilarious video on hydrochloroquine. 0.97

00:04:57.000 Like, what is it? 0.97

00:04:58.000 He did one of those Instagram videos, so go check that out.

00:05:02.000 But it's one of those things where it's like, I wish the president didn't talk about it. 0.99

00:05:07.000 Because then we would know what the fuck it is. 0.99

00:05:09.000 Is it good? 0.99

00:05:09.000 Is it bad? 0.99

00:05:10.000 I mean, are people really not taking it just because the president...

00:05:15.000 Is the one who endorsed it?

00:05:16.000 Like, that is so crazy.

00:05:17.000 Yeah, I don't think there's any doubt about that, right?

00:05:19.000 That's so crazy.

00:05:20.000 Yeah, and people don't know, like to your point, people don't know what to believe, right?

00:05:25.000 And it's one thing if the reporting or the dissemination of information is partisan during normal times, but you're talking about a public health crisis. 0.95

00:05:37.000 And you would think we'd set all of that bullshit aside. 0.99

00:05:40.000 I mean, if we can't come together as a country during a fucking public health crisis, what the hell's wrong? 0.99

00:05:45.000 And it's both sides. 0.99

00:05:46.000 Both sides are tossing hand grenades at each other.

00:05:48.000 So it's not just one side or the other.

00:05:50.000 I'm going to send Jamie this right now because this is from Newsweek.

00:05:53.000 This is why it's really confusing.

00:05:54.000 This is from Newsweek.

00:05:56.000 And this is from a professor of epidemiology from, I believe, from Yale School of Public Health.

00:06:06.000 And he says, the key to defeating COVID-19 already exists.

00:06:11.000 We need to start using it.

00:06:12.000 And he's recommending hydroxychloroquine.

00:06:17.000 Did you get there?

00:06:18.000 Look at this. 1.00

00:06:20.000 This is a fucking real problem. 0.99

00:06:21.000 This is a real doctor, a professor of epidemiology. 1.00

00:06:25.000 Like, what the fuck? 0.99

00:06:27.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:06:28.000 I mean – and you see some folks coming out – some doctors coming out and saying, well, it doesn't work in patients.

00:06:33.000 And then it turns out you read further into the story and it doesn't work on patients who are already seriously ill.

00:06:39.000 Yes.

00:06:40.000 That's what they're saying.

00:06:40.000 Right.

00:06:41.000 And so – but you have to – The problem is nobody makes it past the headlines for the most part, right? 0.93

00:06:47.000 And more and more people are getting their bullshit information from Facebook user groups, and nobody reads down.

00:06:56.000 And to be fair, media outlets know that, so they'll bury the contradictory information in the 20th paragraph or something. 0.92

00:07:04.000 Because they know no one's going to venture down there.

00:07:06.000 Everybody looks at the headlines and goes, see, that convinces me or supports my theory.

00:07:12.000 But yeah, I look at this and we've been doing everything you can do.

00:07:15.000 We've been wearing masks. 0.99

00:07:17.000 I don't see what the bullshit is about the masks. 1.00

00:07:21.000 Wear a fucking mask when you're out in public. 1.00

00:07:23.000 Why? 1.00

00:07:23.000 Who cares? 1.00

00:07:24.000 You get used to it.

00:07:25.000 You know what's better?

00:07:26.000 Bandanas are way better.

00:07:26.000 You can breathe out of them better.

00:07:27.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:07:28.000 Plus it just looks good.

00:07:29.000 Yeah, you feel like a bandana.

00:07:30.000 Yeah, if you've got your horse waiting outside.

00:07:32.000 Do you know that whole video where there's a bunch of doctors that keeps getting removed from YouTube and Facebook with a bunch of doctors talking about hydroxychloroquine and Z-packs and zinc?

00:07:44.000 Everybody's like, you need to listen to this lady. 1.00

00:07:46.000 Then it turns out the lady believes that the cause of impotence is spirits and she thinks there's alien DNA in vaccines. 0.86

00:07:55.000 Is that what she said?

00:07:57.000 Yeah, it's a little odd.

00:08:00.000 She's completely off the reservation. 0.77

00:08:03.000 Oh, you're not supposed to say that, right?

00:08:05.000 I think you're not supposed to say off the reservation.

00:08:07.000 Oh, well.

00:08:08.000 It's offensive to Indians. 1.00

00:08:09.000 Damn it. 1.00

00:08:10.000 Okay, hold on. 1.00

00:08:11.000 Let me make a note of that.

00:08:12.000 That one I didn't have on my list of what's offensive.

00:08:14.000 I was taught by a Native American lady.

00:08:16.000 I'm not supposed to say that one.

00:08:17.000 Oh, she's off the chain. 1.00

00:08:19.000 I think you could say that.

00:08:20.000 Off the hook?

00:08:20.000 It might be offensive to dogs.

00:08:21.000 But off the chain is good, right?

00:08:23.000 It's not crazy. 0.99

00:08:24.000 Shit, I need a new crazy term. 0.99

00:08:26.000 What's a non-offensive crazy term that's not... 0.99

00:08:28.000 Well, I shouldn't say not going to offend anybody because there's no such thing anymore. 0.99

00:08:31.000 Ooh, fucking nuts. 0.99

00:08:32.000 How about that? 1.00

00:08:33.000 We just go with that. 1.00

00:08:34.000 Yeah, she's fucking nuts. 1.00

00:08:35.000 She's a doctor. 1.00

00:08:36.000 She's a legit doctor, but apparently she is nuts. 1.00

00:08:40.000 Yeah. 0.94

00:08:40.000 What do you got, Jamie? 0.94

00:08:42.000 What did she say?

00:08:43.000 Okay.

00:08:44.000 Summer reported that a 2015 sermon that laid out a supposed Illuminati plan hatched by a witch to destroy the world using abortion, gay marriage, and children's toys, among other things...

00:09:01.000 Emanuel claimed that DNA from space aliens is currently being used in medicine.

00:09:06.000 She also offered prayers through her website to remove generational curses transmitted through placenta.

00:09:14.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:09:15.000 Seems legit.

00:09:16.000 No, I see where she's coming from.

00:09:18.000 Trump addressed the video, hold on a second, saying, I think they're very respected doctors.

00:09:23.000 There was a woman who was spectacular. 0.98

00:09:25.000 Spectacular.

00:09:26.000 She was spectacular, placenta.

00:09:30.000 I paid money to hear him say placenta.

00:09:32.000 But he said, of hydroxychloroquine, I happen to think it works in early stages.

00:09:36.000 So that's the problem. 0.99

00:09:37.000 See, when he says that, and then the lady who believes in witchcraft says that, Then, like, maybe it does work, but the problem is a fucking lady who believes in alien DNA and witchcraft and generational curses transmitted through placenta. 1.00

00:09:50.000 I wonder what's children's toys. 0.99

00:09:52.000 I mean, I got kids, now I gotta worry.

00:09:55.000 Which ones would you assume?

00:09:57.000 I'm gonna go with Mr. Potato Head.

00:09:59.000 Yeah, I mean, most of my kids, basically, now all we got around the house is Nerf guns, right?

00:10:04.000 And so, like, any time you walk...

00:10:05.000 Do you remember the Pink Panther where he'd walk around the house? 0.91

00:10:08.000 And then Kato would leap on him.

00:10:10.000 That's what it's like around my house now.

00:10:12.000 You're going to get popped in the air hole by a Nerf bullet at close range because you never know when they're going to sneak up on you and use these things.

00:10:18.000 But that's about all we got anymore.

00:10:20.000 We do have some Legos, so I hope she wasn't talking about Legos. 0.84

00:10:23.000 If she's talking about Legos, then we know she's really crazy.

00:10:26.000 Yeah.

00:10:26.000 But I think, to your point again, part of this is it would be nice if...

00:10:33.000 If the messaging from the White House was better, let's face it, on a number of things, we wouldn't have quite the chaos that we do right now.

00:10:41.000 Well, he's basically using the same strategy he used to be a famous person. 1.00

00:10:45.000 You know, he says wacky shit. 1.00

00:10:47.000 He speaks off the cuff. 1.00

00:10:48.000 He doesn't care.

00:10:50.000 He doesn't have a filter.

00:10:51.000 It seemed like you could do that and become president, but you can't do that and be president.

00:10:59.000 People are not willing to let you talk like that while you're the president. 1.00

00:11:02.000 You have to know exactly what the fuck you're saying. 0.99

00:11:04.000 What do you think is going to happen in November? 1.00

00:11:06.000 That's a good question.

00:11:07.000 Listen, I'm not buying these polls, I'll tell you that.

00:11:11.000 I don't believe him. 0.99

00:11:12.000 Because first of all, who the fuck is answering polls? 0.99

00:11:15.000 I've always said that. 1.00

00:11:16.000 The dumbest people in the world are the ones who answer polls. 1.00

00:11:19.000 So out of the dumbest people in the world with nothing to do, most of them are picking Biden. 1.00

00:11:23.000 Or more of them are picking Biden. 0.99

00:11:25.000 But says who?

00:11:26.000 Says all of the media outlets that want Trump to lose?

00:11:29.000 How do we know?

00:11:30.000 How do we know if they're being accurate?

00:11:32.000 I mean, look, I believe there's a large group of people that are very uncomfortable with Donald Trump being the president.

00:11:38.000 I absolutely believe that.

00:11:40.000 I believe there's an also large group of people that are very uncomfortable with a man who seems to be mentally compromised winning the election and doing so by hiding.

00:11:50.000 I mean, the guy's never...

00:11:51.000 He was just at another thing the other day and he forgot where he was.

00:11:53.000 Did you see the video?

00:11:54.000 Yeah.

00:11:54.000 Until he comes out with his VP pick, all bets are off, as far as I'm concerned, on Biden.

00:12:00.000 That VP is going to have a bucket of lube, and she's going to dunk it in there and stuff her hand up his ass, and she's going to be working him like we can at Bernie's. 1.00

00:12:08.000 There's no way that guy's going to be doing any talking. 0.99

00:12:12.000 I don't know if you could do that.

00:12:13.000 I guess physically.

00:12:15.000 Kamala Harris is a strong woman.

00:12:17.000 I think she could do it.

00:12:18.000 Do you think she's the pick? 0.60

00:12:20.000 She could win.

00:12:20.000 She could do it.

00:12:21.000 She would make sense to people because she's a powerful woman. 1.00

00:12:26.000 She's a former district attorney. 0.93

00:12:29.000 She's a powerful person. 0.57

00:12:31.000 She's got name recognition.

00:12:33.000 She's got that.

00:12:33.000 She's got a commanding presence.

00:12:38.000 For what it's worth, I mean, A, look, he did something kind of wacky.

00:12:41.000 I understand why he did it, because, you know, that's the world we live in.

00:12:44.000 But he's backed himself in the corner and said, okay, I'm going with gender and demographics rather than, you know, identifying the most qualified person.

00:12:53.000 So, okay, fine.

00:12:54.000 That's what it is.

00:12:55.000 Very strange thing to do, though.

00:12:56.000 Yeah, it is.

00:12:57.000 But, you know, the Susan Rice, I will put out a...

00:13:01.000 I would be much more comfortable with Susan Rice than I would be with Harris, frankly, just given the work that she's done, the things that she's done, right?

00:13:10.000 On National Security Council, she was U.N. Ambassador, she was Assistant Secretary of State, she was, what, National Security Advisor for four years.

00:13:20.000 I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up picking her because he worked with her very closely for eight years.

00:13:25.000 And she doesn't have the name recognition, but I don't know that in this election cycle that's as important as it has been in the past.

00:13:36.000 Isn't there some controversy with her regarding Benghazi?

00:13:39.000 There is, but...

00:13:42.000 And rightly so, right?

00:13:44.000 She went out, the whole story was she went out after, wow, how many years?

00:13:49.000 Man, isn't that incredible?

00:13:51.000 Going on eight years ago, September 11, 2012. So shortly afterwards, she went on TV. She did a series of interviews right afterwards as sort of the face of the administration talking about this.

00:14:03.000 And she utilized a bunch of talking points that had been prepared by the intel community, right?

00:14:08.000 Led at the time by John Brennan and some others.

00:14:12.000 In that, that's where it famously blamed the video that came out and the protests in Cairo and then, oh my god, it escalated.

00:14:20.000 The video meaning that movie?

00:14:21.000 That movie, yeah.

00:14:22.000 What exactly?

00:14:23.000 See, okay, listen.

00:14:24.000 You used to work for the CIA. Used to?

00:14:26.000 I don't know if you still do.

00:14:27.000 Let's be honest.

00:14:28.000 But used to?

00:14:29.000 I don't know if you ever get out.

00:14:32.000 That movie seemed like if there was ever some movie that was made to sort of be used as a cover-up, that movie did not look like a real movie.

00:14:44.000 No.

00:14:45.000 Well, it wasn't really.

00:14:47.000 I mean, it wasn't a James Cameron movie. 0.99

00:14:50.000 Explain to people what the fuck was. 0.98

00:14:51.000 It was made by an independent filmmaker, and it was perceived as very anti-Islamic. 0.99

00:15:00.000 But the bottom line was, for Susan Rice, if you're just looking, because you've actually pinpointed the one chink in her armor, right? 0.91

00:15:09.000 I can't say that anymore, can I? You can still say chink in your armor, but you have to say it quick. 1.00

00:15:13.000 Okay, you have to run right through it.

00:15:15.000 You can't say chink one, two, three, four in her armor. 1.00

00:15:18.000 It's like you can say pussycat, but you can't say pussy... 0.99

00:15:22.000 You've got to roll right through it. 0.99

00:15:24.000 Yes.

00:15:24.000 Yeah, okay.

00:15:25.000 All right.

00:15:26.000 So that's the problem with her, is the Benghazi issue.

00:15:31.000 But look...

00:15:34.000 The bottom line is, if you don't believe that Joe Biden is likely going to be the president for four years, if he gets elected, right, for whatever reason, then the VP pick is incredibly important, more so than we've had in a long time.

00:15:50.000 More so than ever.

00:15:51.000 Yeah, more so than ever.

00:15:52.000 And you want this to be a serious-minded individual.

00:15:55.000 If you want to hang that, if you'd rather see him pick somebody like Karen Bass or Tammy Duckworth or someone, rather than someone who's had the range of experience within government that Susan Rice has had.

00:16:10.000 Again, I'm not shilling for Susan Rice.

00:16:11.000 I'm just saying...

00:16:11.000 But you prefer her.

00:16:13.000 I would prefer her just because I respect those areas that she's worked in.

00:16:18.000 I'm more focused on our position overseas.

00:16:21.000 I'm more focused on the foreign policy and that sort of thing.

00:16:23.000 And I realize that she's taken this hit for Benghazi.

00:16:26.000 Of course she is, rightly so.

00:16:29.000 But, you know, this is a game of compromise.

00:16:31.000 Could you explain why she took the hit, though?

00:16:33.000 So we kind of glossed over it, but there was a movie.

00:16:36.000 This movie was erroneously blamed for being the cause of the attack.

00:16:43.000 It wasn't the real cause of the attack.

00:16:45.000 What was the real cause of the attack?

00:16:46.000 Well, the real cause of the attack was we ignored...

00:16:51.000 You know, signs of increasing activity in Benghazi at the consulate that we had there.

00:16:58.000 We ignored, at the time, advice, you know, and suggestions that we beef up our security out there.

00:17:07.000 And we allowed for a...

00:17:12.000 We didn't allow for, but we were not prepared for the attack that took place on September 11th in 2012. And immediately afterwards, the line from the administration was, shit, nobody could have seen this coming, right? 0.98

00:17:26.000 Because, you know, there was a spontaneous protest because of this... 0.99

00:17:29.000 It was an anti-Islamic movie.

00:17:30.000 It was a hateful video.

00:17:31.000 That's how they referred to it in their talking points.

00:17:33.000 A hateful video.

00:17:34.000 And then it spread from Cairo.

00:17:36.000 It spread all of a sudden.

00:17:37.000 Boom! 0.99

00:17:37.000 It popped up in Benghazi. 0.99

00:17:38.000 And we had this table.

00:17:39.000 And now, you know, then they tried to back it up a little bit by going, well, yes, some jihadist elements, you know, hijacked that, you know, legitimate protest over a hateful video in Benghazi.

00:17:49.000 And who could have seen that coming?

00:17:51.000 Bottom line was, they should have seen it coming.

00:17:53.000 So, yes, she should take some flack for that. 0.68

00:17:55.000 But I guess my point is...

00:17:56.000 We've got to compromise at some point.

00:17:59.000 Again, I'm still amazed at Okay, 2016, we had a choice between Clinton and Trump.

00:18:07.000 2020, we got a choice between Biden and Trump. 0.99

00:18:09.000 What the fuck's happened to our country? 0.97

00:18:10.000 We had 330-plus million people, and this is what we got. 0.99

00:18:13.000 Right.

00:18:14.000 But I'm just saying, so you're going to have to set aside some of your concerns and figure out who is going to be best suited.

00:18:21.000 Why didn't they just have Susan Rice run as president? 1.00

00:18:25.000 Because she would have a legitimate chance.

00:18:28.000 Well, again, without the name recognition, right?

00:18:31.000 And there's still a lot of game that gets played, a lot of theater and politics.

00:18:35.000 So, oh my God, have they ever run for president before?

00:18:37.000 And so that's what Harris has going for, right?

00:18:39.000 And I'm not saying she's not capable.

00:18:41.000 She's certainly capable.

00:18:42.000 But again, look...

00:18:44.000 Here's the thing.

00:18:45.000 I'm more comfortable with Republican policies related to foreign policy, related to national security concerns, related to the economy to some degree.

00:18:56.000 Republicans aren't fiscally conservative anymore.

00:18:59.000 I'm small government, but I'm more aligned with that.

00:19:02.000 The fact that I don't like...

00:19:05.000 The character or the behavior of Trump, right?

00:19:10.000 I mean, that I disagree with the fact that he gets out there, he doesn't have an edit button.

00:19:15.000 Doesn't mean I don't appreciate the things that the administration does in certain areas, like our China policy or other things.

00:19:21.000 So I think the Democrats make a mistake thinking, okay, well, people don't like Trump, so they're going to vote for this thing over here, right?

00:19:28.000 And if this thing is a hybrid between Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders, who, you know, got shafted once again in this, you know, this round of Democratic primaries.

00:19:41.000 And if they tilt hard left...

00:19:45.000 It doesn't mean just because you don't like Trump as an individual that suddenly you're okay with hard left policies.

00:19:51.000 But I think the Democrats make that mistake.

00:19:53.000 They think that that's the solution to Trump.

00:19:56.000 Go as far away from him as possible.

00:19:58.000 Yeah.

00:19:58.000 And then you can't find a center.

00:20:00.000 I think exactly.

00:20:01.000 That's the solution.

00:20:02.000 I think the solution is somewhere in the center. 0.98

00:20:04.000 And when you see shit like what's happening in Portland and Seattle, I think people are more aware than ever now that civil unrest is like... 0.98

00:20:13.000 It's very strange. 0.99

00:20:15.000 It's very strange to watch them try to break into that.

00:20:18.000 What was the building in Portland they were trying to break into?

00:20:20.000 The Hadfield Courthouse.

00:20:22.000 The federal courthouse.

00:20:23.000 That was insane.

00:20:25.000 Watching that was insane.

00:20:26.000 I don't understand the motivation.

00:20:30.000 How do you connect that in Portland, the most liberal city in the country?

00:20:36.000 Arguably, right?

00:20:37.000 Probably the most liberal.

00:20:39.000 Seattle, Portland.

00:20:40.000 Right there.

00:20:41.000 How do you connect that to Black Lives Matter?

00:20:43.000 I mean, how do you connect that to George Floyd's death?

00:20:45.000 How do you connect that to...

00:20:47.000 Why?

00:20:48.000 I just don't understand.

00:20:49.000 Why would you try to break into the courthouse?

00:20:51.000 They're trying to recreate what went wrong, what didn't work in Seattle, right?

00:20:55.000 That whole zone, autonomous zone.

00:20:59.000 Yeah.

00:21:00.000 That didn't work.

00:21:00.000 I mean, that was nonsense.

00:21:01.000 It was crazy. 0.96

00:21:02.000 You made a worse version of America in six blocks. 0.69

00:21:04.000 It's like one of those little tiny, little, you know, like if you took like a glass dome and you put like little animals in there and you let them eat each other alive.

00:21:13.000 I was like, we're going to create utopian glass.

00:21:16.000 They made a worse version of the United States. 0.74

00:21:18.000 They put up borders immediately.

00:21:20.000 They stopped people from coming in.

00:21:21.000 They had armed guards.

00:21:22.000 They wind up using police tags. 0.80

00:21:25.000 They didn't have cops, but they have people that act like cops and beat the fuck out of people for filming. 1.00

00:21:29.000 The whole thing was madness. 0.92

00:21:30.000 They had murders.

00:21:32.000 It was crazy.

00:21:32.000 It was quick.

00:21:34.000 I mean, look, Portland.

00:21:36.000 I know Portland extremely well.

00:21:38.000 My parents lived in Portland for a couple of decades.

00:21:42.000 It's a beautiful place.

00:21:43.000 It used to be a hell of a place.

00:21:45.000 But over the years, and I know Republicans and Democrats who feel the same way who are in Portland and the surrounding area.

00:21:52.000 And they all feel like this place is slowly, you know, circling down the toilet because of local and state management, right?

00:22:00.000 And so what happened in Portland?

00:22:04.000 Not really a surprise.

00:22:05.000 You know, it's the same – the people that do this sort of activity, right, that, you know, have been referred to as Antifa or anarchists or whatever, They're the same sort of trustafarian,

00:22:21.000 bottom-feeding folks in really any city in the world who engage in a WTO protest because it's cool to get out there and protest.

00:22:30.000 I don't understand the mentality, but if you try to figure out a motivation for them, you'll lose your mind because they really don't have one.

00:22:37.000 You could take 10 of those people out of Portland who are engaged in sort of the violent activity And ask them, well, why are you doing this?

00:22:45.000 And you'll get 10 different answers.

00:22:47.000 They really don't have.

00:22:49.000 It's not like that.

00:22:49.000 And the sad part about it is they hijacked very legitimate protests over really serious, important questions about how do we improve policing around the country?

00:23:05.000 How do we get to that point?

00:23:06.000 And I'll tell you, the most disappointing part about it is After the tragedy with George Floyd, if the focus had been on, okay, here's what we have to do.

00:23:20.000 We have to Seriously, not just lip service.

00:23:24.000 We have to improve the policing to solve this particular issue.

00:23:29.000 How do we do that?

00:23:30.000 Well, there's certain logistical things you can do.

00:23:32.000 You can improve your vetting and hiring of police candidates, right, of applicants for the job.

00:23:38.000 You can do that.

00:23:39.000 That's a protocol you can put in place.

00:23:41.000 You can improve the training.

00:23:42.000 That costs money. 1.00

00:23:43.000 So defunding the police is kind of fucked. 0.99

00:23:45.000 You can improve the training and make it continuous. 0.99

00:23:48.000 It's not just a one-time thing.

00:23:50.000 It's a continuous training on how to respond to situations.

00:23:53.000 It's like weapons training.

00:23:55.000 If you don't keep doing it, if you're not always practicing, it just doesn't work, right?

00:24:01.000 And then what can you do?

00:24:02.000 You can also improve disciplinary action.

00:24:05.000 Those are...

00:24:06.000 Concrete things that you can do.

00:24:08.000 They're not easy, right?

00:24:10.000 But it's not as heavy a lift as deciding in the aftermath of the George Floyd tragedy that what we're really going to do is we're going to remove racism from the hearts and minds of people.

00:24:20.000 This is not going to happen, right?

00:24:22.000 I'd like to think it would.

00:24:23.000 In theory, hey, great.

00:24:24.000 Get rid of racism.

00:24:28.000 You know, what this should have been was a protest about doing things that actually will impact meaningfully people's lives.

00:24:36.000 And it veered off because people wanted to feel self-righteous.

00:24:40.000 It veered off into, well, you have to prove how pure you are.

00:24:42.000 You have to remove racism, right?

00:24:44.000 Now, I know black people that object to white people.

00:24:49.000 I know white people that object to people not of their race. 0.92

00:24:53.000 I know Hispanics that don't like people of non-Hispanics. 1.00

00:24:57.000 Racism exists, sad to say, right?

00:24:59.000 And all mankind, it's a human element of nature.

00:25:04.000 Would you rather spin your wheels and act self-righteous and try to say, well, we're going to have this exercise where we remove racism from mankind, or would you rather say, in the aftermath of this, let's do the things that can actually make a difference?

00:25:17.000 And that's what we didn't do.

00:25:18.000 And then, legitimate protests over the anger and frustration about all this got further hijacked by, again, Antifa, anarchists, whatever you want to call it.

00:25:26.000 I think that's a big part of the problem.

00:25:28.000 You know, Ben Shapiro and I had this conversation about the protests and this term Where they are large, mostly peaceful protests, and he had a hilarious point.

00:25:38.000 He said, O.J. Simpson had a mostly peaceful night the night he killed his wife.

00:25:43.000 It was only three minutes of the entire day that wasn't peaceful. 0.99

00:25:47.000 Like, that is a fucking great point. 0.91

00:25:49.000 But it is true in the protest that most of those people Want the world to be a better place. 0.97

00:25:55.000 Right.

00:25:55.000 The problem is the people that hijack that and are trying to light the federal buildings on fire and smash monuments, you know, particularly, I mean, like, they're going after Abraham Lincoln.

00:26:06.000 I mean, Jesus Christ.

00:26:07.000 Right, right. 1.00

00:26:07.000 He's the guy that freed the fucking slaves. 1.00

00:26:09.000 Like, what are we doing? 1.00

00:26:10.000 Are we going to erase history?

00:26:11.000 Yeah.

00:26:12.000 I would have loved if Abraham Lincoln could have had a time machine and gone to 2020 and understood what we know now about systemic racism. 0.99

00:26:19.000 However, he lived in the 1700s when he wrote with a fucking feather. 0.99

00:26:23.000 Okay? 0.99

00:26:23.000 Give the guy a break. 0.99

00:26:26.000 The world was a weird place back then.

00:26:29.000 Well, and that's part of it, is trying to judge people of the past by current morals or current understanding, current thinking, is pretty absurd, right?

00:26:42.000 It doesn't justify past bad actions, but you know what?

00:26:46.000 This idea that you're going to erase history or remove history or not learn from it going forward, it discredits the ability of people to...

00:26:58.000 Have rational thought, right?

00:26:59.000 To understand and look at a context, look at something in context and say, okay, nowadays that's unacceptable.

00:27:05.000 But okay, I get why these things occurred.

00:27:09.000 It's tragic or it's regrettable, whatever.

00:27:11.000 But I mean, look, in the UK, they were attacking the statue of Churchill.

00:27:16.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:27:16.000 I mean, holy fuck. 1.00

00:27:17.000 It's crazy. 1.00

00:27:18.000 Yeah.

00:27:18.000 I mean, I think I said, did I just say Lincoln 1700s?

00:27:20.000 I meant 1800. Well, it was 1865, right?

00:27:23.000 Yeah.

00:27:23.000 But either way.

00:27:24.000 The idea that this guy is supposed to be a perfect person back then, look, history is supposed to be about the things that happened, the people that made a difference, and how we got to where we are today.

00:27:35.000 And Lincoln is a big part.

00:27:37.000 The 1865, the Emancipation Proclamation, that's a big part of how we are who we are today.

00:27:44.000 Look, it's horrible that the Early settlers brought over slaves from Africa. 0.97

00:27:51.000 It's horrible that slaves still exist today.

00:27:53.000 All these things are horrible.

00:27:54.000 They're horrible, but taking down statues of people that made a difference and made change.

00:27:59.000 Look, if you want to take down statues of Confederate generals and stuff like that, there's a good argument there. 1.00

00:28:06.000 It's a good argument that maybe we shouldn't have those or maybe we should have them somewhere.

00:28:10.000 You know, like the same place we have a statue of Genghis Khan.

00:28:13.000 Right.

00:28:13.000 Like maybe they shouldn't be, you know what I'm saying?

00:28:14.000 Is there a statue of Genghis Khan?

00:28:16.000 I'm sure there is.

00:28:16.000 Yeah, somewhere.

00:28:17.000 Somewhere in Mongolia, there's gotta be, right? 0.99

00:28:19.000 Look, Genghis Khan killed 10% of the fucking population while he was alive. 0.98

00:28:23.000 But it doesn't mean there shouldn't be some recognition of this historical figure when you're talking about 2020. Well, I think, interestingly, and this doesn't, again, you know, The problem is nowadays, right? 0.96

00:28:35.000 You've got sort of the righteous mob on the left and the righteous mob on the right.

00:28:39.000 And the problem people make is they try to placate one side or the other thinking somehow they're going to be pure enough.

00:28:45.000 You're never pure enough for the self-righteous mob no matter where they are on the spectrum.

00:28:49.000 Right.

00:28:49.000 They're always finding new, there's a new benchmark.

00:28:52.000 There's always that opportunity.

00:28:53.000 But, you know, a lot of the Confederate statues out there were put up in an effort to, and this sounds weird, but in an effort to try to unify the country again, right, in the aftermath of the Civil War.

00:29:03.000 And there was this element of saying, let's try to...

00:29:06.000 And so you think, okay, that's...

00:29:08.000 You know, a lot of them were put up, actually, during the Civil Rights Movement.

00:29:10.000 Right, right.

00:29:10.000 They were put up when they were thinking that people were getting too highfalutin and they wanted to celebrate the Confederate...

00:29:15.000 And that's absolutely true.

00:29:16.000 Those are the really cheap ones, too.

00:29:18.000 Yeah.

00:29:18.000 It's true.

00:29:19.000 They're really shittily made because they made them real quick.

00:29:21.000 But I mean, so the point being is I agree.

00:29:23.000 If you want to take those down, well, sure, yeah.

00:29:25.000 I mean, why would you have a statue of some Confederate leader?

00:29:29.000 Fine, take it out.

00:29:30.000 Take it off the streets.

00:29:31.000 That makes – I get that, right?

00:29:33.000 And if that helps people feel – Terrific.

00:29:37.000 Put it in a museum or whatever you're going to do with it.

00:29:39.000 But George Washington?

00:29:40.000 George Washington, yeah, I know exactly.

00:29:42.000 Abraham Lincoln?

00:29:43.000 It's funny.

00:29:43.000 When they were taking down Confederate statues, Trump once said, what's next?

00:29:48.000 You're going to take down George Washington?

00:29:49.000 And everyone was laughing like they're not going to do that.

00:29:51.000 But yet they are going to do that now.

00:29:53.000 Yeah.

00:29:54.000 And you know what?

00:29:54.000 And two things, again, as always, can be true at the same time.

00:29:57.000 Somebody could be doing some things you disagree with vehemently.

00:30:03.000 They could have also done something that helped move the country forward, did something that had extreme positive effects.

00:30:09.000 Well, that's the Genghis Khan argument. 0.97

00:30:11.000 They opened up trade with China.

00:30:13.000 In the process of killing 10 million people, he opened up trade with the East. 0.98

00:30:16.000 Was he a free trader?

00:30:17.000 I didn't know that.

00:30:18.000 Oh, yeah, sure.

00:30:18.000 He's a free trade guy.

00:30:20.000 Free trade slash raper. 1.00

00:30:21.000 He was your first NAFTA. Murderer. 0.99

00:30:23.000 He killed so many people, they changed the carbon footprint of the Earth.

00:30:27.000 Yeah.

00:30:28.000 The New York Times had this crazy article about it.

00:30:30.000 He literally killed 10% of the people on Earth.

00:30:34.000 He was an angry man.

00:30:35.000 Look, it's awful that we have history that's filled with terrible acts and deeds.

00:30:41.000 But I don't think that removing statues of people who tried to make a difference, you know, within the context of their time, you know, with Lincoln 1865, with George Washington, 1700s.

00:30:54.000 I mean, you're talking about people that when they were doing this, they were the best example of humanity that you could find.

00:31:01.000 They were the best example of what we had.

00:31:04.000 I mean, when George Washington was the first president of the United States, I mean, you want to talk about a fucking radical undertaking, this crazy experiment in self-government while they escaped from the grasp of Europe. 0.94

00:31:17.000 I mean, it's really nuts. 0.77

00:31:19.000 Yeah, and again, I think there's an element here that we missed the boat maybe again, right?

00:31:27.000 We've gone through these.

00:31:28.000 It's not like we haven't had protests before, you know, Black Lives Matter protests and over the same issues of police brutality and all that.

00:31:34.000 But it all falls into that same bucket from my perspective that we...

00:31:40.000 Right.

00:31:57.000 Right?

00:31:58.000 Or, you know, find a way to make us feel better about ourselves without necessarily having to.

00:32:04.000 And it's like this shell game, I think, that politicians sometimes play, right?

00:32:09.000 And you saw it in Portland, where, you know, okay, let's just placate this for a while.

00:32:14.000 It'll make everybody feel better, and then the protests will die down.

00:32:17.000 Well, Seattle's the best example, right?

00:32:19.000 When the mayor came out and said, she called it, maybe it's the summer of love.

00:32:22.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, 67, the summer of love.

00:32:25.000 Have they totally squashed that now?

00:32:28.000 Is that whole place brought back to the original business owners?

00:32:31.000 I don't know is the answer to that question.

00:32:34.000 I do know that they've been looking at how do we do Community-based policing.

00:32:41.000 How do we defund the police and yet still have something that resembles a response to the citizens' need for security?

00:32:47.000 I don't know what any of all that dribble means.

00:32:50.000 If you want to improve the policing, it's an investment, right?

00:32:55.000 It's not defunding.

00:32:56.000 But again, defunding and saying that and saying, this is what I'm for. 0.98

00:32:59.000 It's an easy fucking way to feel good and to placate people and then you don't do shit and then five years from now we have another incident because you didn't actually do the things that make policing better. 0.98

00:33:11.000 Well, you get where you got in New York City. 0.99

00:33:13.000 It gets even worse for the citizens because now the police don't have any faith at all in the government.

00:33:19.000 They're not respected.

00:33:20.000 They're not appreciated.

00:33:21.000 And you've seen this giant uptick in crime because their presence isn't there anymore.

00:33:25.000 I mean, it's really crazy, man.

00:33:27.000 It's like a movie.

00:33:27.000 I've never thought, if you went back to March when we shut down, I never thought I would be sitting here with you at the end of early August here, and we would be talking about this.

00:33:37.000 I would have never thought that this would have taken place, that we would have legitimate civil unrest in this country, people getting shot in the streets in protests.

00:33:46.000 You know, I know that there's a real concern in a lot of these cities that someone's going to try to recreate what happened in Seattle, recreate what happened in Portland, and they're worried about it.

00:33:59.000 The thing about it is it seems so organized.

00:34:02.000 It really does.

00:34:03.000 It doesn't seem that haphazard.

00:34:05.000 It seems organized.

00:34:06.000 How do these things get started?

00:34:10.000 Like, how do you get something as big as these Portland riots?

00:34:15.000 Well, you know, it's a really good question.

00:34:18.000 And sometimes what you see is what appears to be a grassroots movement or grassroots activity happening, just kind of swelling up from a couple of neighborhoods.

00:34:28.000 Yes, there was an element of that.

00:34:31.000 But you also see, like if you're talking about...

00:34:36.000 Talking about activist environmental groups as an example, you'll also see some commonality between some of these groups.

00:34:42.000 You'll see commonality in communications advice, in financing, in legal assistance and support from national groups, right?

00:34:51.000 And yet it's in their agenda.

00:34:54.000 It's to their advantage to make it appear as if it's a grassroots movement.

00:34:58.000 So that all stays in the background.

00:35:01.000 I'd argue that, you know, yes, some of this, and again, not to disappear down some rabbit hole where it's a George Soros-funded thing.

00:35:09.000 That's where I was going.

00:35:10.000 Yeah, but I mean, you know, are there some elements that help with communication support or transportation assistance or legal advice or whatever it may be?

00:35:23.000 Absolutely.

00:35:23.000 You know, these things, they don't.

00:35:26.000 Very rarely is there an actual, genuine, organic, grassroots movement that has no outside organizational support.

00:35:34.000 That's this spontaneous and this big.

00:35:38.000 But again, we're putting our tinfoil hats on.

00:35:45.000 But if anybody can put that on, you can put them on.

00:35:47.000 I left mine out in the car, but I'll go get it.

00:35:50.000 You've been on the inside, working for the CIA. You know how it works.

00:35:54.000 Well, we very rarely organized things like this.

00:35:57.000 That's not what I'm saying.

00:35:58.000 I'm not saying that you know that you guys did it.

00:36:03.000 I'm saying you understand how these people operate in a way that someone like me doesn't.

00:36:08.000 And also, again, look, we've talked about this in the past.

00:36:12.000 I'm not...

00:36:14.000 I'm not necessarily a conspiracy theorist, but sometimes, yeah, sometimes you got to follow the threads that you can pull on and sometimes it takes you down an interesting path and you think, okay, maybe there is something to this.

00:36:25.000 I wouldn't say you're a conspiracy theorist, but I would say you're open to the possibility of conspiracy.

00:36:30.000 Like when you and I talked about the Martin Luther King assassination and you took a big pause and you said, that one does not make sense.

00:36:37.000 Yeah.

00:36:37.000 No, I agree.

00:36:37.000 I still feel that way.

00:36:39.000 That one is filled with holes.

00:36:41.000 And I agree as well.

00:36:42.000 I looked into it much more after you and I talked.

00:36:45.000 It's very strange.

00:36:47.000 The way that you sometimes can get actually further into it without...

00:36:53.000 Kind of disappearing down some of these peripheral side stories and issues is money, right?

00:36:59.000 Look for funding.

00:37:00.000 Look for issues of where did money go?

00:37:04.000 Because that sometimes will take you down a more legitimate path, right?

00:37:09.000 A lot of times investigations get built on very shaky ground because you start with a theory or whatever and you're never starting on firm ground.

00:37:16.000 Sometimes when you follow the money, it keeps you a little more grounded.

00:37:21.000 Right.

00:37:22.000 Follow the money.

00:37:23.000 Follow the fat of the money.

00:37:24.000 Well, that's the thing with this.

00:37:26.000 It's like, where is the money coming from?

00:37:28.000 Like, where is the money coming from that organizes and helps these people get out of jail and all that jazz?

00:37:35.000 Well, and there's certain things that...

00:37:37.000 Let's go back to Portland for a minute.

00:37:40.000 Okay.

00:37:42.000 One of the problems is, I think the media, journalism in general...

00:37:49.000 You know, isn't anywhere near as curious or concerned with investigation as it used to be, right?

00:37:58.000 It's easier now to just say, this is where I'm at.

00:38:01.000 I'm subjective.

00:38:02.000 Of course I'm subjective, you know, and so here I go.

00:38:04.000 The idea of objectivity in journalism is pretty much out the window.

00:38:10.000 With Portland, early on, for instance, they published mugshots and names of...

00:38:19.000 I think there were maybe a dozen of the individuals who were arrested for violent activity, right?

00:38:23.000 Violent activity.

00:38:24.000 Now, a curious journalist, you would have thought, would have said, let's do some research.

00:38:29.000 Let's look at all these people and let's look at their backgrounds.

00:38:32.000 You know, it's already public information.

00:38:34.000 They've already posted it.

00:38:35.000 Let's dig into this and find out who are these people.

00:38:38.000 Are there any linkages or any commonalities between all these individuals?

00:38:42.000 Can we find something that's interesting there?

00:38:44.000 Maybe we won't, but let's do some investigation, right?

00:38:47.000 You'd like to think that's what journalism used to be, but it doesn't seem like it is anymore.

00:38:53.000 But that doesn't happen.

00:38:55.000 I think there's a problem, and here's one of the problems.

00:38:57.000 Most journalists are left-wing.

00:39:00.000 There's a giant number.

00:39:02.000 I don't know what the percentage of it is, but if you want to go with whether it's Newsweek or CNN or the New York Times or Washington Post or many, many, many, many of these papers and organizations lean left.

00:39:15.000 There's a dirty secret.

00:39:16.000 The dirty secret is Antifa acts as the thug enforcers of the left.

00:39:23.000 The people that do things like this, whether you approve of violence or disapprove of violence, what they're doing is they act as the people doing the dirty work that many people on the left think has to be done in order to enact real change.

00:39:38.000 Now, if you had the same thing in the right, imagine, my friend Tim Dillon said this, imagine if the Proud Boys were lighting Portland on fire.

00:39:47.000 Can you imagine if we had a Democratic president and the Proud Boys were trying to break into the courthouse and light Portland on fire? 0.99

00:39:55.000 People would go fucking crazy. 0.96

00:39:57.000 It would be terrifying if it was a different political ideology but the same exact actions. 0.98

00:40:04.000 So because these actions are done with the correct political ideology, under the guise of racial justice, under the guise of reforming our government, so then everybody's okay with people literally burning books.

00:40:18.000 They're throwing books on a pile.

00:40:21.000 That's a Bible.

00:40:22.000 So go ahead.

00:40:22.000 You can do that.

00:40:23.000 It's fucking crazy. 0.99

00:40:25.000 They're burning Bibles. 0.99

00:40:26.000 Like, what does the Bible have to do with it?

00:40:28.000 The Bible gives a lot of people comfort, whether you believe in it or not.

00:40:30.000 You're throwing stacks of Bibles, and then you're lighting them on fire in front of a courthouse?

00:40:34.000 What if they'd been throwing the Quran? 0.98

00:40:36.000 Right.

00:40:37.000 Very good example.

00:40:38.000 Very good example.

00:40:39.000 We'd all be losing our minds.

00:40:41.000 But Pelosi, you know, Nancy Pelosi came out and said, well, people are going to do what they're going to do.

00:40:46.000 Really, Nancy?

00:40:47.000 Really? 0.81

00:40:48.000 Well, she's an odd duck, that lady. 1.00

00:40:51.000 She's decided to call it Trump's virus now. 0.93

00:40:54.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:40:55.000 She's obviously fucking with him, which part of it I appreciate. 1.00

00:40:58.000 It's kind of adorable. 0.99

00:41:01.000 And Trump came out when Herman Cain passed away and he came out and said, well, it's very sad he passed away from the China virus.

00:41:09.000 He just keeps doing it because he knows.

00:41:11.000 He does this.

00:41:12.000 And he knows he can hijack a news cycle.

00:41:15.000 And he came out with this idea of the election and possibly a delay because the post office, he knows what he's doing.

00:41:21.000 And everybody rises to the bait.

00:41:24.000 He knows there's no way in hell they're going to delay the election.

00:41:28.000 Not going to happen.

00:41:29.000 Now, ideally, he wouldn't have thrown that out there just to get a rise and just to steal the election or the news cycle.

00:41:38.000 He does it.

00:41:39.000 Why do you think he said that?

00:41:40.000 Well, I think he was trying to...

00:41:42.000 A, I think because, what do I know?

00:41:45.000 But it almost seems like he just enjoys, right? 0.99

00:41:48.000 Fucking with people. 1.00

00:41:48.000 Fucking with people, yeah. 1.00

00:41:49.000 And I think he knows what he's going to get, which is, again, what he got, which is a couple of days of, oh my God, hand-wringing, and I told you he's a dictator, and of course he's going to... 0.99

00:41:56.000 And then my favorite narrative of the left is, well, he's not going to leave.

00:42:01.000 If he loses in November, he's not going to leave.

00:42:03.000 That's my absolute favorite narrative from the left so far.

00:42:05.000 Yeah, I keep hearing that, but I've seen no evidence that that's true.

00:42:09.000 Well, if you repeat something often enough, then it gets to be true.

00:42:13.000 It was like when we had the chemical weapons issue in Iraq, remember?

00:42:17.000 We had one source, but if you report that, it gets into reporting channels, and then somebody else mentions it or refers to it, and then you've got two mentions.

00:42:25.000 And pretty soon people forget it only came from one source of information.

00:42:28.000 Elon Musk, please hurry up with your neural link so we can read each other's minds and people can't lie anymore.

00:42:33.000 It's so important.

00:42:34.000 Wouldn't that be nice?

00:42:35.000 It's so important.

00:42:36.000 He's ready to go, man.

00:42:37.000 I'm telling you.

00:42:38.000 We are two or three years away from being able to read each other's minds.

00:42:41.000 I tell you what, that would be brilliant because I used to say that at the agency, right?

00:42:45.000 We used to get boxed fairly regularly or polygraphed very regularly.

00:42:48.000 And I hated the polygraph, man.

00:42:50.000 My polygraph file was huge because I... I'm one of those – I'm a kind of a – I don't want to say I'm a Puritan, but I'm one of those Quaker people who feels guilty about everything, right?

00:42:59.000 I feel like if I took a pencil when I was a three-year-old, you know, my God, I got to confess it, right?

00:43:04.000 So I had a hell of a time during polygraphs, right?

00:43:07.000 And then I'd get irritated with the examiners, right?

00:43:11.000 One time I had one of the examiners say, you seem to know a lot of foreign people.

00:43:16.000 And I lost my mind, right?

00:43:17.000 And so I literally went after her and said, you know what job I do? 0.99

00:43:21.000 Do you know what my fucking job is? 0.99

00:43:24.000 And I just snapped, right? 1.00

00:43:26.000 Protect fucks like you. 0.99

00:43:28.000 They're like, what do you mean I seem to know a lot of foreign people? 1.00

00:43:33.000 But I used to say all the time, I said, man, if they could just make a colander that would come down on your head and read your thoughts, I would be happier than a pig and shit because then I could have been out of this thing in five minutes. 0.99

00:43:43.000 Look, I'm happy to admit my faults. 0.99

00:43:45.000 I'll tell you.

00:43:46.000 I'll tell you exactly what's on my mind.

00:43:47.000 It's not all pretty.

00:43:49.000 But I'll let you in.

00:43:50.000 I'm a good person, but I have dark thoughts sometimes.

00:43:53.000 Go ahead, take a look.

00:43:55.000 But I'll do that if you'll do that.

00:43:58.000 I don't want any lies!

00:43:59.000 The lies are the problem, the distortions of the truth.

00:44:02.000 Did you imagine the implosion of media if we had mind reading and we find out exactly what's going on in the New York Times, exactly what's going on in the Washington Post, exactly what's going on? 0.99

00:44:12.000 Whenever you see questionable stories, you're like, what the fuck is this? 0.98

00:44:15.000 Is this true? 1.00

00:44:16.000 Is this bullshit? 1.00

00:44:16.000 Is this propaganda? 1.00

00:44:18.000 Who's telling them to write this?

00:44:19.000 Why are they writing like this?

00:44:21.000 What's the narrative behind this?

00:44:24.000 Well, they get away with it because they got an incurious public, right?

00:44:27.000 I would argue.

00:44:28.000 In part, right?

00:44:28.000 I think they're overwhelmed.

00:44:29.000 Well, yeah.

00:44:32.000 Overwhelmed by information.

00:44:33.000 I don't know if it's a curious thing.

00:44:35.000 I think that's one of the things we're dealing with now with all this activity.

00:44:38.000 People have more free time.

00:44:40.000 They don't have obligations because they can't work.

00:44:43.000 Because so many folks are fucked and they're out of work, that makes people more apt to be activists, more apt to get out there in the streets, and it creates actually more chaos because you're having more people involved in these things and they really don't have anything else to do with their time. 0.93

00:45:00.000 And when you're out there, you're screaming and you're fucking holding arms and you're saying, you know, we will overcome, you really think like you are doing something. 0.98

00:45:07.000 I mean, it really does, I'm sure it feels good. 0.96

00:45:09.000 No, a lot of this is about, you know, feeling like, I mean, you're making a difference, right?

00:45:15.000 Yeah.

00:45:15.000 Even if you aren't.

00:45:17.000 I don't know whether we've talked about this before, but I think one of the – you're absolutely right.

00:45:21.000 They're overwhelmed with information because we have so many more outlets, right?

00:45:24.000 There's so many outlets for gathering information.

00:45:26.000 And most people are reading social media all day.

00:45:30.000 All day.

00:45:30.000 But very little else that's real.

00:45:32.000 What drives me crazy is, I mean, you just do it, you can spend five minutes doing it, right?

00:45:36.000 Just go, while you're walking around, maybe not now because everybody's hiding in their hidey hole, but, you know, just the constant with the phone, right?

00:45:44.000 If people have five seconds of free time on their hands, they don't know what to do, so they get their phone and say, okay, well, you know, if nothing else, at least I look like everybody else staring at my phone.

00:45:51.000 But I think one of the interesting things with news dissemination is, You go back to, you know, the 50s, the 60s, 70s, we had a shared moment, right, every day, for the most part, right?

00:46:06.000 Everybody would sit down at whatever, 5 o'clock or 11 o'clock across the country, and you'd watch the news on one of three, basically three outlets, ABC, NBC, or CBS. And so for that moment, if you think about it, The vast majority of people who were paying attention to news were getting their news delivered from the same one of three sources.

00:46:26.000 There was a commonality there and they would process it differently based on their own experiences and beliefs but at least there was that point of commonality.

00:46:39.000 That disappeared.

00:46:40.000 That doesn't happen anymore.

00:46:42.000 And I don't know where I'm going with that.

00:46:45.000 I'm just banging on about it.

00:46:46.000 But I find it interesting.

00:46:47.000 There's no objective news source anymore.

00:46:50.000 That's a problem as well.

00:46:51.000 There's a left news source and a right news source.

00:46:53.000 There's no straight up Walter Cronkite person that's giving us the facts.

00:46:58.000 Well, Walter had his own beliefs too.

00:47:02.000 No, no, no.

00:47:03.000 But it's as close as you're going to get to a good example.

00:47:06.000 You just didn't know it.

00:47:07.000 It wasn't in your face.

00:47:08.000 I would like to see someone today that tells you the real facts.

00:47:12.000 Well, I've said this before.

00:47:14.000 It's a cash-heavy business.

00:47:15.000 If you had the capital to set up a... 0.98

00:47:19.000 An outlet that simply told you what the fuck happened that day, right? 0.97

00:47:25.000 And here's your news. 0.96

00:47:26.000 I'm not going to have any opinion hours.

00:47:28.000 I'm not going to have any commentary.

00:47:30.000 We're not going to have a panel discuss it and tell us what it might mean.

00:47:34.000 We're just going to take the top events of the day and maybe two or three times a day, here's your news.

00:47:41.000 We're going to take the time to research.

00:47:43.000 And that was the other thing about having a newscast at 5 and a newscast at 11. You had all day long as a media business to check your facts, to get it right.

00:47:54.000 And you weren't playing beat the clock with every MOOC with a smartphone, who now thinks they're a blogger or a vlogger or whatever.

00:48:03.000 But I think that would actually be very successful because I think people do want They want the ability or the comfort of thinking, yeah, maybe this is legitimate.

00:48:16.000 Yeah, they want someone who's pure that way.

00:48:19.000 I think the only people that are doing it like that are independents.

00:48:22.000 There's a few of them out there.

00:48:24.000 There's a few of them that are just calling it like they see it.

00:48:27.000 If you want political information, my sources are Kyle Kalinske, Jimmy Dore, and The Hill.

00:48:32.000 Those are the ones that I go to because they'll call out people on both sides and they show the problems.

00:48:38.000 The Hill's a particularly good show because you have Crystal who's on the left and Sagar who's on the right and they're honest and they're intelligent and they talk about things and they disagree but they're also friends and they've been on the podcast together.

00:48:49.000 But they'll tell you, here's the issues and this is why this is wrong and this is why this is corrupt and here's the influences and this is where you're being misled.

00:48:59.000 But you can deliver the news.

00:49:01.000 Think about it.

00:49:02.000 Even on the political side, even reporting on Capitol Hill, you can deliver the news.

00:49:06.000 You can say, you know, during the course of today, this is what happened, right?

00:49:10.000 Now, it's not going to blow anybody's skirt up because it's not exciting and it's not titillating and it's not, you know, it doesn't fire you up to hate the other side.

00:49:18.000 But you could do it.

00:49:19.000 It's just, you know, again, talk about setting up, you know, field offices and that's an expensive business.

00:49:26.000 And to do it and to be completely unbiased, you're going to have a lot of people working for you.

00:49:33.000 Like, good luck keeping them all unbiased, especially today.

00:49:36.000 If you're getting some kid fresh out of college and he's 22 or she's, you know, getting her graduate degree, You're going to get kids that have gone through this system that we're trying to rectify.

00:49:51.000 The university system today is filled with woke politics.

00:49:55.000 They're indoctrinating kids.

00:49:57.000 A lot of these kids that are getting out, they have this idea in their head before their frontal lobe is even fully formed of what is good and what is bad and what is right and what is wrong and what you're supposed to do.

00:50:10.000 Yeah.

00:50:11.000 A lot of it is like it's really distorted and weird.

00:50:15.000 Well, my daughter who works in Washington, D.C. now is getting a really good look at how government works.

00:50:23.000 When she was in college, and she's more Republican than most of her friends that were in college, because to your point, it's very liberal.

00:50:32.000 She used to talk about that.

00:50:34.000 She said she She rarely had a debate.

00:50:36.000 She rarely had a moment where she would speak up in class and take the opposite point because there's no upside to it.

00:50:42.000 I want to get good grades.

00:50:43.000 People think they're racist and the professor will hate you.

00:50:46.000 Right.

00:50:46.000 And that was it.

00:50:47.000 And that was a big part of it.

00:50:48.000 She said, look, my goal here was to get good grades.

00:50:51.000 And it was clear that taking the opposite position from the professor or the teaching assistant wasn't going to get me where I wanted to be. 1.00

00:51:00.000 No, you're fucked. 1.00

00:51:00.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:51:01.000 And people adapt, too.

00:51:02.000 That's the other thing about human beings.

00:51:04.000 When you're confronted by a large majority of people that think one way, you will change and amend your thinking to fit in.

00:51:11.000 We don't like to be on the outside.

00:51:13.000 We don't like to be, you know, there's a few very strong-minded rebels out there in the world, but most people are conformists.

00:51:21.000 Most people just, they think they're rebellious, but they're rebellious along with a group of other people that think almost the exact same way, and those are the people they hang out with.

00:51:30.000 I got on the tube one time when I was living in London a few years back, and it wasn't the mullet craze, it was the goatee craze.

00:51:42.000 Every dude was wearing a goatee. 0.98

00:51:43.000 So I came back from, I forget where I was working overseas, but while I was out there, Before I went back to London, I thought, ah, fuck it, I'll grow a goatee. 0.98

00:51:50.000 That seems to be the thing to do. 0.98

00:51:51.000 So I grow a goatee.

00:51:53.000 I get back to London, and it literally was like the next day I was back there.

00:51:57.000 I get on the tube, and I walk into the car.

00:52:00.000 I'm standing there, and I look down the car, and every dude in that car had a goatee. 1.00

00:52:05.000 And I thought, holy fuck. 1.00

00:52:07.000 So I went home and shaved. 1.00

00:52:08.000 But I guess my point is that you're right.

00:52:11.000 You want to be, oh, I'm a rebel, but I'm only going to be a rebel with a bunch of other people.

00:52:15.000 Yeah, you're typically unique.

00:52:17.000 Yeah.

00:52:18.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:52:19.000 But it's part of being a human being, you know, and I think we need to recognize that.

00:52:23.000 We need to understand that this plays a large part in your belief system.

00:52:27.000 It's not necessarily that you're right or that you're wrong.

00:52:29.000 And be very, very wary of people who say they are right.

00:52:35.000 I am right.

00:52:36.000 Because we're right.

00:52:37.000 We know because we're right and they're wrong.

00:52:41.000 Well, it's a cancel culture.

00:52:42.000 It's a cancel culture, too, is a big part of this. 0.99

00:52:44.000 It's part of being a fool. 1.00

00:52:46.000 Yeah, yeah. 1.00

00:52:47.000 There's certain things you could be right about.

00:52:48.000 You could be right about mathematics.

00:52:50.000 You could be right about chemicals, and you could be right about science.

00:52:53.000 You could be right about things.

00:52:55.000 But when it comes to political things and sociological things, when it comes to matters of culture, there's opinions.

00:53:02.000 You know, and sometimes, you know, opinions vary, and there's a spectrum along with it, and there's some people that hold that opinion that are really fucking crazy, and there's other people that are very reasonable that hold a similar opinion, but they have a justification for it, and they have a rationalization for it, and they have thought behind it.

00:53:18.000 Yeah.

00:53:18.000 And this is, you know, one of the beautiful things about doing a podcast like this is when we're talking about, like, phones, like, leaving your phone.

00:53:26.000 For three hours, I don't touch that goddamn thing. 0.99

00:53:29.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:53:29.000 And I get to have a one-on-one conversation with someone where we're locked in with headsets, where your voice is as loud as my voice and it's in my head and we're looking at each other across the table. 0.99

00:53:38.000 It's a very unusual thing and it's been a massive education for me.

00:53:41.000 Massive.

00:53:42.000 To be able to talk to people like you and all the interesting and intelligent people that I get to talk to.

00:53:47.000 It's changed who I am as a human being in a big way.

00:53:51.000 I talk to you and then I talk to the folks that are interesting and intelligent.

00:53:57.000 I think the cancel culture thing and this idea that people want to think in absolutes, again, I go back to the same point all the time, which is like, be careful, everybody.

00:54:10.000 Just be careful, because you're never going to be pure enough, and then you start seeing everybody getting devoured.

00:54:15.000 Matt Taibbi had a good example about that when he was talking about Alex Jones getting kicked off of Twitter.

00:54:20.000 And he's like, whether you agree with Alex Jones or not agree with Alex Jones, this is a bad thing.

00:54:25.000 He's like, because it's not going to stop.

00:54:27.000 He goes, when you tell a guy you're not allowed to have those opinions and those thoughts...

00:54:33.000 And we're going to remove you from the discourse.

00:54:35.000 You can no longer participate in communication.

00:54:37.000 You set a precedent.

00:54:39.000 You're going to have a slippery slope.

00:54:40.000 And then it's going to come for you.

00:54:42.000 Because the standards are going to change.

00:54:43.000 And you're seeing that.

00:54:44.000 You're seeing that with liberals.

00:54:46.000 You're seeing that with people who are liberal but don't toe the line about maybe specific gender issues or trans issues or whatever it is.

00:54:53.000 Barry Wise from the New York Times.

00:54:54.000 Barry is my friend.

00:54:56.000 She's about as liberal as you can get.

00:54:58.000 Perfect example.

00:54:59.000 Yeah.

00:54:59.000 I mean, she's a feminist.

00:55:00.000 She's a Jewish woman. 0.99

00:55:02.000 She's super smart and intelligent and educated, but she's also independent enough to understand that there's a fucking cult going on. 1.00

00:55:10.000 This woke cult. 0.99

00:55:12.000 And people are going to wake up to it.

00:55:14.000 You know, my friend Bridget Phetasy, she found a journal that she wrote when she was 24, and she's in her 40s now, and she's laughing.

00:55:21.000 I hope she's in her 40s. 0.99

00:55:22.000 I didn't...

00:55:26.000 She's wise beyond her years.

00:55:31.000 She's 39 at least.

00:55:33.000 Google her.

00:55:36.000 37?

00:55:36.000 Whatever.

00:55:37.000 She's awesome. 0.83

00:55:37.000 I love her. 0.83

00:55:38.000 She doesn't look a day over 41. But she read something that she wrote when she was 24. And she's like, Jesus Christ, I read it.

00:55:44.000 She's like, I must have been...

00:55:45.000 She goes, I was like AOC back then.

00:55:47.000 She goes, I was so crazy.

00:55:48.000 It was embarrassing to read.

00:55:50.000 And now having more life experience and encountering more hypocrisy and craziness in people, now she has a more nuanced and balanced perspective.

00:55:59.000 How old is she? 0.98

00:56:00.000 She says 41. She's 41. I was close.

00:56:02.000 Come on, bro.

00:56:03.000 What did I say?

00:56:05.000 She's in her 40s.

00:56:06.000 I was right. 1.00

00:56:07.000 You son of a bitch. 1.00

00:56:08.000 That's in the 40s. 1.00

00:56:09.000 I felt bad that I aged my friend.

00:56:12.000 But there's a lot of people like that.

00:56:15.000 Look, man, when I was in my early 20s, I was probably, well, I'm pretty liberal now, but I was probably even more liberal back then.

00:56:22.000 I just, I think that...

00:56:24.000 There's a certain amount that I really like about Republicans.

00:56:29.000 The value of hard work and discipline, family values, all those things particularly as I've become a father and become someone who makes money and understands where taxes go and understands fiscal waste.

00:56:45.000 I'm a fiscally conservative person, but I'm a socially very liberal person, and I find myself like a man without an island.

00:56:53.000 No, I agree with you.

00:56:54.000 Again, I'm small government.

00:56:56.000 I think everybody's just got to stay out of everybody's kitchen.

00:57:00.000 I don't understand the interest in social issues. 0.99

00:57:03.000 I mean, people, as long as you don't hurt anybody else, I don't give a fuck. 0.98

00:57:07.000 If that makes you happy, Godspeed. 0.99

00:57:10.000 But can I say Godspeed anymore?

00:57:12.000 I think you can still say that.

00:57:13.000 Okay.

00:57:14.000 But I've got to say it together.

00:57:15.000 Does God have a gender? 0.93

00:57:16.000 I can't say just God.

00:57:17.000 Does God have a gender? 0.93

00:57:19.000 I don't know if anybody knows.

00:57:20.000 Should we say Yahweh?

00:57:21.000 Yahweh.

00:57:22.000 Yahweh has no gender. 1.00

00:57:23.000 Yahweh sounds like a chain of gas stations on the highway. 1.00

00:57:28.000 Yeah, right, with a convenience store attached to it, Slurpees and shit. 0.99

00:57:32.000 Oh, I used to love Slurpees. 0.99

00:57:33.000 Cola, Cola Slurpees.

00:57:35.000 They're delicious. 0.98

00:57:35.000 I like that blue one, whatever the fuck that non-natural drink. 0.98

00:57:40.000 What is that blue one? 0.99

00:57:40.000 What do they even call that? 0.99

00:57:42.000 What's the blue one?

00:57:42.000 I drove up to the boys' Finnish swim team the other day, and I had all three of them, Scooter and Sluggo and Muggsy in the car, and I said, hey, let's stop.

00:57:51.000 I'll get you guys hungry.

00:57:52.000 Of course, because they're young, they're like, yeah, let's go to McDonald's.

00:57:54.000 So I asked Muggsy, the youngest, I said, what do you want?

00:57:58.000 He says, nuggets and that blue thing.

00:58:03.000 So I got up to the window and he says, can we help you?

00:58:05.000 And I said, yeah, I'll take 10-piece nuggets and that medium blue thing.

00:58:09.000 I had no idea what it was.

00:58:10.000 It's raspberry flavored, blue raspberry.

00:58:12.000 Blue is raspberry?

00:58:13.000 It's like slushy something.

00:58:15.000 But raspberries aren't blue.

00:58:17.000 Not that I know of.

00:58:18.000 But once you finish manipulating them in the DNA, who knows, genetically modified raspberries.

00:58:26.000 But now I'm thinking about Slurpees.

00:58:30.000 It's a delicious beverage. 0.97

00:58:31.000 I wish it wasn't so fucking terrible for you, and I wish it didn't give you brain freezes, because I'm greedy. 1.00

00:58:37.000 When I get a good Slurpee, I hammer that sucker. 0.99

00:58:40.000 And then I go, oh, the brain freeze. 0.93

00:58:44.000 They say you're supposed to rub your tongue on the roof of your mouth to stop the brain freeze.

00:58:49.000 And you do that also to stop sneezing.

00:58:51.000 Oh.

00:58:51.000 Which now is like the, you know, somebody sent me that, I'm sure, I don't know who even came up with this, but they said that sneezing in public is now the equivalent of shitting your pants in public.

00:59:00.000 Oh, it kind of is, right?

00:59:00.000 Because everybody's so freaked out about the pandemic.

00:59:02.000 Coughing is the worst.

00:59:03.000 Yeah, coughing, yeah.

00:59:04.000 My dog does a reverse sneeze.

00:59:07.000 I was worried that he was like choking, and then the vet says, no, that's like a reverse sneeze.

00:59:12.000 First of all, one of my guys that works here told me that, and then I talked to the vet about it.

00:59:16.000 He's like, yeah, and the dog goes...

00:59:18.000 It seemed like he was choking, but it's like a reverse sneeze.

00:59:23.000 So I talked to him, I'm like, hey man, you okay?

00:59:24.000 And he's wagging his tail.

00:59:25.000 I'm like, he seems alright.

00:59:27.000 Like, do I take him to a vet? 0.99

00:59:28.000 What the fuck is that noise? 0.99

00:59:29.000 I just got another dog. 1.00

00:59:31.000 Got a golden doodle.

00:59:35.000 Yeah, because we've always had big dogs.

00:59:38.000 I thought, well, let's get another dog. 0.72

00:59:40.000 What the hell?

00:59:41.000 So it's part poodle, part golden retriever?

00:59:43.000 Yeah, and great personality. 1.00

00:59:46.000 She's dumb as a brick, but big. 1.00

00:59:49.000 She's going to be probably about 100 pounds. 1.00

00:59:52.000 Jesus, that's a big one.

00:59:54.000 I know, that's a big golden doodle.

00:59:55.000 Massive paws.

00:59:56.000 It's already bigger than we ever thought.

00:59:58.000 Why is that so big?

00:59:58.000 I don't know.

01:00:00.000 I thought you didn't want a big dog.

01:00:01.000 Well, no, we wanted another big dog.

01:00:04.000 The other one we've got now is Hendrix. 1.00

01:00:07.000 He's also an idiot. 1.00

01:00:08.000 I should have just named him Idiot, but he's the greatest dog I've ever had. 1.00

01:00:11.000 What is he? 0.98

01:00:12.000 He's an English golden retriever.

01:00:13.000 Great.

01:00:14.000 Oh, my God.

01:00:14.000 I love golden retrievers, man.

01:00:16.000 Marshall's the first golden retriever I've ever had.

01:00:19.000 Yeah, he's beautiful.

01:00:20.000 You had him here the last time I was here.

01:00:21.000 Beautiful dog.

01:00:22.000 I can't get over how much I love that dog.

01:00:24.000 Yeah.

01:00:24.000 They look at you with, like, everything they got.

01:00:26.000 Yeah.

01:00:27.000 They just stare at you and they just say, whatever.

01:00:29.000 When I wake up in the morning, he waits for me outside the bedroom door.

01:00:32.000 And then we have this little, like, routine.

01:00:35.000 I go, good morning, sir!

01:00:37.000 Good morning!

01:00:38.000 And he starts going...

01:00:39.000 Woo! 0.99

01:00:40.000 Woo! 0.99

01:00:41.000 He picks a toy up.

01:00:42.000 He has to have a toy in his mouth for whatever, you know, Goldens always want to have something to show you. 0.99

01:00:46.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:00:47.000 So he's got like, he goes and gets, he has a box of toys.

01:00:50.000 He's so spoiled.

01:00:51.000 He's got like a box of stuffed animals.

01:00:52.000 He runs over, grabs a toy, and comes over.

01:00:54.000 Woo! 0.99

01:00:55.000 Woo! 0.99

01:00:56.000 Woo! 0.99

01:00:56.000 And I go, good morning, sir! 0.99

01:00:58.000 Good morning!

01:00:59.000 And then, you know, usually we go work out together.

01:01:01.000 Yeah, ours will spend all day out in the compound trying to catch squirrels.

01:01:06.000 He's fascinated with squirrels, like a lot of dogs are, but he's never caught one, but he's convinced.

01:01:11.000 And that's the great thing about retrievers.

01:01:12.000 They're always optimistic.

01:01:13.000 Marshall's caught one, and it got pulled down from Instagram.

01:01:16.000 It's the only picture, Marshall's picture with him and a squirrel in his mouth.

01:01:19.000 It was apparently offensive.

01:01:22.000 It was pulled from Instagram.

01:01:23.000 Good God.

01:01:24.000 I think it's still on my page.

01:01:26.000 Shh! 0.97

01:01:26.000 I shouldn't have said that. 0.97

01:01:27.000 They'll find me.

01:01:27.000 Wait a minute.

01:01:28.000 So it got pulled down because someone said, oh my God, how could that dog have a squirrel in its mouth?

01:01:33.000 Yes.

01:01:33.000 Killed a squirrel.

01:01:34.000 I don't know.

01:01:34.000 That's what dogs do.

01:01:35.000 That's what cats do. 1.00

01:01:37.000 Well, what was going on was we had chickens and the squirrels were stealing the chickens' food.

01:01:42.000 Okay, yeah.

01:01:42.000 And Marshall would have loved to have killed a chicken, but we would not allow that.

01:01:48.000 So he found it amusing that squirrels were on the menu.

01:01:52.000 That's fantastic.

01:01:54.000 I had a terrier one time that was great.

01:01:56.000 Jack Russell terrier.

01:01:57.000 And she and this cat we had, which was an outside cat, had a deal.

01:02:05.000 The cat would catch chipmunks, bring the chipmunks, still living, to the Jack Russell.

01:02:09.000 The Jack Russell would take the chipmunk, shake it to death, right?

01:02:11.000 And then drop it and leave it for the cat.

01:02:13.000 And then the cat would bring the remainders, the entrails eventually, to the front door and leave it.

01:02:18.000 Kind of like laid out there, like an offering to us.

01:02:21.000 Isn't that strange that cats do that?

01:02:23.000 It's such a weird thing.

01:02:24.000 It's weird, but it's the way of the world.

01:02:27.000 The relationship with cats to people is so bizarre because they're basically, they just accept the fact that you're big enough that they can't eat you.

01:02:35.000 Yeah.

01:02:35.000 But everything smaller than them is dead.

01:02:37.000 It's fair game.

01:02:38.000 I had a bit about it.

01:02:39.000 You cannot have a pet cat and a pet gerbil in the room together at the same time.

01:02:44.000 There's no agreements. 1.00

01:02:46.000 You can have a dog that's a good dog and you can have a pet gerbil and the dog's like, that's a fucking rat. 1.00

01:02:50.000 You're like, no, no, no. 1.00

01:02:51.000 That's Mr. Fluffy.

01:02:52.000 Mr. Fluffy's our friend.

01:02:54.000 And the dog would be like, oh, okay.

01:02:56.000 Okay.

01:02:57.000 Okay. 1.00

01:02:57.000 The dog just said, no, that's a fucking rat, man. 1.00

01:02:59.000 Are you sure? 1.00

01:03:01.000 You're like, no, no, that's not a rat.

01:03:02.000 That's a gerbil.

01:03:03.000 He's our friend.

01:03:03.000 And the dog, if it's a good dog, there's no rules like that with cats.

01:03:07.000 Cats are like, you can go fuck yourself. 1.00

01:03:09.000 The moment you let that cat go, he's going to kill that gerbil. 1.00

01:03:12.000 It's 100% of the time.

01:03:14.000 It's true.

01:03:15.000 It's absolutely true.

01:03:16.000 They make that sound.

01:03:17.000 You know, the cat's out of here.

01:03:18.000 Exactly.

01:03:18.000 Yeah, their mouth starts moving really fast.

01:03:20.000 They just know, oh my God, they're so focused on killing something. 1.00

01:03:23.000 They are murderers. 0.95

01:03:24.000 They kill billions and billions of birds and mammals every year. 0.99

01:03:27.000 House cats do.

01:03:29.000 And when people find out that number, scientists found out that number, they were stunned.

01:03:32.000 It wasn't that long ago.

01:03:33.000 It was maybe a decade ago, they did an account of how many cats kill animals and what the number of animals were.

01:03:41.000 I've seen that.

01:03:42.000 And it's stunning.

01:03:43.000 Billions a year in this country.

01:03:45.000 You've got to wonder, what would the ecosystem look like if it wasn't for cats?

01:03:51.000 We've got a hybrid house outdoor cat now that roams around the neighborhood and then comes back occasionally when he wants to hang out.

01:03:58.000 And yeah, it's the same thing, right? 0.99

01:04:00.000 Well, at least he's out in the fucking chain. 0.99

01:04:03.000 He's in the food chain. 1.00

01:04:04.000 If your cat is out there, he's risking his own ass, too. 0.99

01:04:08.000 There's owls and hawks. 1.00

01:04:09.000 They will take your fucking cat out. 1.00

01:04:12.000 Especially where we are, man. 1.00

01:04:13.000 I tell you, it wasn't that long ago, driving down by the Boise River, saw this hawk come down, just bam, hit the water, came up with a nice trout.

01:04:22.000 Oh, God.

01:04:23.000 Wow, a hawk took a trout out.

01:04:25.000 Right out of the river.

01:04:26.000 I know eagles do it.

01:04:26.000 Incredible, yeah.

01:04:27.000 I didn't know hawks do it.

01:04:28.000 No, they can...

01:04:30.000 It's fascinating.

01:04:32.000 You know what?

01:04:33.000 I've been advised before I came out here.

01:04:36.000 Not to talk well about Boise.

01:04:37.000 Not to talk well about Boise.

01:04:38.000 In fact, I had people sending me notes saying, just tell Joe, we're full up. 0.99

01:04:43.000 The women are ugly. 1.00

01:04:45.000 It's just like all this bullshit. 1.00

01:04:46.000 Just say, shut up about Idaho. 1.00

01:04:48.000 Remember when I did that show down there? 0.98

01:04:49.000 Yeah.

01:04:50.000 I was saying to myself, I even said to the audience, I said, I get it. 0.99

01:04:54.000 You guys are going to keep this a fucking secret. 0.99

01:04:56.000 Yeah, yeah. 1.00

01:04:57.000 Boise!

01:04:58.000 I'm going to say it one last time.

01:04:59.000 This is it.

01:05:00.000 Last time.

01:05:01.000 It's a great fucking place. 1.00

01:05:02.000 It's a great fucking place. 1.00

01:05:03.000 You've got to come back out. 1.00

01:05:03.000 I don't know the show. 1.00

01:05:04.000 I mean, whenever that happens.

01:05:06.000 People are allowed to travel.

01:05:07.000 Yeah, whenever you're allowed.

01:05:08.000 I did shows in Houston about a month ago and I felt real scared.

01:05:12.000 Afterwards, I was like, what am I going to get other people sick just so I could tell jokes?

01:05:16.000 It's going to be tough to read the crowd when everybody's wearing a mask, too.

01:05:18.000 A lot of people weren't.

01:05:19.000 A lot of people had them hanging down as a chin strap.

01:05:23.000 Yeah, I like that.

01:05:24.000 A chin strap or an earring.

01:05:26.000 Pretending.

01:05:27.000 Pretending they're doing something good.

01:05:29.000 See, I got my mask on here.

01:05:31.000 No, I... We dodged the bullet.

01:05:33.000 I did a whole weekend at the Houston Improv.

01:05:35.000 It was an awesome time.

01:05:36.000 Hung out with Dan Crenshaw and Willie D from the Ghetto Boys. 0.74

01:05:40.000 Had a good time.

01:05:40.000 It was a lot of fun.

01:05:41.000 But after it was over, I was like, this is not worth the risk.

01:05:44.000 I don't want to infect anybody that I know and love, and I don't want the crowd to infect people.

01:05:48.000 And even though the health department cleared it, and they did temperature checks, and social distance, it's not...

01:05:55.000 You can catch it. 0.91

01:05:57.000 It's too goddamn contagious. 0.93

01:05:58.000 Well, that's just it. 0.93

01:05:59.000 And again, you can believe the science, but at the same time disagree with the coverage and think, you know what?

01:06:08.000 Again, going back to the whole idea of objective news, it'd be interesting to see what the coverage would be like if we had objectivity in journalism. 0.99

01:06:15.000 And But it's not going to happen, so I'm just talking out my ass. 0.99

01:06:20.000 It's not going to happen. 0.99

01:06:20.000 I think there's an opening for it. 0.99

01:06:22.000 And I think these independent people, like I was talking about, like Kyle Kalinske and Jimmy Dore and The Hill, and these people that are doing it with politics, I think they've opened up the possibility that someone could do it with just general news.

01:06:36.000 Politics is a very attractive way for someone to get into the game because it's very click-baity.

01:06:42.000 You talk about all these issues.

01:06:44.000 You make a YouTube show.

01:06:45.000 It doesn't have a large boundary that you have to cross.

01:06:49.000 Financially, there's not a large price you have to pay before you can enter the game.

01:06:54.000 All you really need is a camera.

01:06:57.000 It sets up.

01:06:58.000 You have a background.

01:06:59.000 It doesn't have to be any particular kind of an interesting background. 0.99

01:07:01.000 And with most software tools for video editing, you can do a lot of shit. 0.92

01:07:07.000 But honestly, we don't... 0.97

01:07:08.000 I don't know.

01:07:09.000 I'd argue the last thing we need is another political show.

01:07:13.000 I think maybe.

01:07:14.000 But I don't think the last thing we need is another political show.

01:07:17.000 I think the last thing we need is nuclear war.

01:07:19.000 But I think another political show is better than that.

01:07:23.000 But I think that...

01:07:24.000 A regular news show. 0.80

01:07:26.000 I would like someone to do the same goddamn thing with a regular news show, but the problem is if you funded it, like if I said, hey, we're going to do the JRE News Network. 0.91

01:07:33.000 We're going to treat news the way I treat everything in life. 0.96

01:07:36.000 I don't know, so I ask questions and I want to know what the real truth is.

01:07:39.000 And sometimes I'm wrong, but if I'm wrong, I'll correct myself.

01:07:42.000 If we just did a JRE News Channel... 1.00

01:07:45.000 Then you'd have to hire a bunch of fucking people. 0.99

01:07:47.000 And then who knows if they're going to share my philosophy and take on things. 0.99

01:07:50.000 They're probably not going to.

01:07:51.000 So someone's going to have to organically come up with a version of it.

01:07:56.000 And then there's the problem there.

01:07:57.000 Like, what's their sources?

01:07:58.000 Are you going to send journalists out in the field?

01:08:01.000 You know, and who are these journalists?

01:08:02.000 And what's their qualifications?

01:08:03.000 And how much do they understand about which subject they're covering?

01:08:06.000 Well, I think that is the great myth.

01:08:09.000 I mean, you never had 100% objectivity, right?

01:08:13.000 I mean, it just never happened because of some of the reasons you're talking about.

01:08:16.000 It's just like with intelligence reporting, right?

01:08:20.000 Once you get the raw intelligence off the street, you can have an asset tell you something, and that moment It's just raw intelligence.

01:08:29.000 It doesn't have a right or a left or whatever.

01:08:31.000 It hasn't been through the spin cycle.

01:08:33.000 But once that intelligence gets reported back to headquarters, and then it starts getting its way through the analysts, and then it makes its way to others outside of the agency, if we're talking about the agency, and it starts getting to the NSC. By the time it finishes getting through all those different cycles,

01:08:52.000 yeah, there's a spin to it, right?

01:08:54.000 And you've lost that.

01:08:55.000 So to your point, yeah, you're absolutely right.

01:08:58.000 You put reporters out in the field, they're going to have a bias as to who they talk to, right?

01:09:03.000 And those people are going to have a bias.

01:09:04.000 And then it's going to get back to the editors, and they're going to work on it.

01:09:07.000 So again, I realize that we're not talking 100% objectivity, but...

01:09:14.000 Something better than what we got.

01:09:16.000 Something better than what we got would be nice.

01:09:17.000 And I think the only way that's gonna emerge is it's gonna emerge independently.

01:09:21.000 You can't get this with funding.

01:09:24.000 You can't create that sort of a thing with a lot of money behind it and a bunch of different people with vested interests and biases.

01:09:33.000 You're not gonna create that.

01:09:36.000 It's going to have to emerge independently.

01:09:38.000 And I don't know how.

01:09:39.000 I don't know how.

01:09:40.000 But that's almost what you need.

01:09:42.000 It's almost like you need individual shows that cover individual subjects.

01:09:46.000 Like you need an unbiased environmental show that tells you, hey, this is what we really know currently about fracking. 0.86

01:09:53.000 This is what we really know, and this is how we know it, and these are the people we're talking to, and you have a whole fucking show just dedicated to the dangers, pros and cons of fracking. 0.92

01:10:02.000 And then have the same thing for coal, and the same thing for solar, and the same thing for current nuclear technology, which might be the most promising thing that we have, but everybody's fucking terrified of it.

01:10:12.000 Well then what you're getting though, is you're continuing to slice and dice your sources of information, and what are you doing?

01:10:18.000 You're still overwhelming the people, in fact more so.

01:10:20.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:10:20.000 And they're like, what the fuck. 1.00

01:10:22.000 That's true. 1.00

01:10:23.000 You know, I don't know.

01:10:25.000 Maybe like a news show is just, there's too much news.

01:10:29.000 Like, you can't really have a news show.

01:10:31.000 Because if you have an hour show, like, good evening, this is the 11 o'clock news.

01:10:35.000 Like, how are you going to fit it in an hour?

01:10:39.000 Are you going to fit this whole world's crazy chaos in an hour?

01:10:42.000 Well, you got the intro figured out, though.

01:10:43.000 That's good.

01:10:44.000 Thank you.

01:10:45.000 I talk like a newsman.

01:10:47.000 Drive safely.

01:10:48.000 Be careful out there.

01:10:49.000 Did you get a chance to look at that chaos book that I told you about?

01:10:53.000 Yeah.

01:10:54.000 Tom O'Neill, who is a friend of my good friend, Greg Fitzsimmons, wrote an insane book that took him 20 years about Manson and the CIA and LSD. What did you think about all that?

01:11:08.000 Well, you've touched on some, or Tom touched on some really interesting things.

01:11:15.000 What I liked about his book, and I went through it, I read it, is that...

01:11:22.000 He's actually, I think, very honest about the shortcomings of what he ended up doing and the research that he went through and where he couldn't draw connections.

01:11:32.000 So I give him a lot of credit.

01:11:34.000 I think it's well worth the read. 0.70

01:11:39.000 It's a hell of a personal story that it took him this fucking long to make his way through with a variety of reasons.

01:11:48.000 Luckily, it's been a tremendous success. 0.65

01:11:52.000 He's sold out almost immediately, and the paperbacks are sold out too.

01:11:58.000 I think they're reprinting it.

01:12:01.000 It's a huge draw, right?

01:12:02.000 It is that, but it's also a fantastic Account of all the things that happened with the Manson family and all those people that were alive back then, about how this guy kept getting out of jail, and they kept arresting him, and they kept saying, this is above my pay grade,

01:12:17.000 and they would let him out.

01:12:18.000 Yeah, and that's, for me, that's the strangest part about the whole story, right?

01:12:22.000 I mean, you know, this idea that, you know, was Manson, you know, a lab rat for the CIA and, you know, how How far down that rabbit hole do you want to go?

01:12:32.000 Well, O'Neill is pretty clear about that, right?

01:12:34.000 It's not a particularly solid connection.

01:12:37.000 It's a tenuous connection, I think he called it, between one of what used to be a contractor, a researcher for that old chestnut MK Ultra.

01:12:49.000 Jolly West.

01:12:50.000 Yeah, yeah, Jolly West, yeah.

01:12:52.000 What did you think about all that?

01:12:53.000 I'm sure you know about Operation Midnight Climax and all that stuff that's absolutely true.

01:12:58.000 Yeah, I don't know.

01:12:59.000 It'd be interesting to know how many people are aware.

01:13:02.000 I mean, I know some people that, you know, that's what they do.

01:13:04.000 Let's explain Midnight Climax.

01:13:05.000 Operation Midnight Climax was a CIA-funded program where they dosed up Johns. 0.78

01:13:11.000 They created brothels and dosed up Johns with LSD against their knowledge. 0.98

01:13:17.000 Yeah.

01:13:18.000 And without their knowledge. 0.97

01:13:19.000 And let them fornicate and have a good old time with these ladies of the evening. 1.00

01:13:24.000 Man, my God.

01:13:25.000 And watched them and filmed them and studied them.

01:13:27.000 And when you say it that way, I'm in if you want money to produce that movie.

01:13:31.000 But it is actually, yeah, it's true.

01:13:34.000 Look, it fell under the sort of umbrella of this MKUltra, which is public knowledge.

01:13:42.000 Obviously, we're not talking out of turn.

01:13:43.000 Well, let's also give them the benefit of the doubt. 0.99

01:13:46.000 When LSD was synthesized by Albert Hoffman, they really needed to figure out what the fuck this was. 0.98

01:13:52.000 And they needed to figure out, like, could this be used against Americans? 0.98

01:13:56.000 Could this be used against the president?

01:13:58.000 What is this?

01:13:59.000 Is this a truth serum?

01:14:00.000 Like, what are the benefits?

01:14:02.000 What's the pros and cons?

01:14:03.000 And what are the dangers of this stuff?

01:14:05.000 From a national security angle, it's very important that they did study it.

01:14:08.000 Right.

01:14:09.000 And so from context, and again, we talked about that towards the beginning, which is something we don't normally do, right?

01:14:14.000 So we're judging people from history now.

01:14:17.000 And so we're not using context of, well, what were the conditions?

01:14:22.000 We're talking about the 1950s, the 1960s.

01:14:24.000 Well, yeah, late 40s.

01:14:25.000 I mean, so what have you got?

01:14:27.000 You got the end of the World War II. You got the Cold War.

01:14:30.000 It's the late 40s.

01:14:33.000 You've got the Soviet Union that is heavily invested in a variety of experiments.

01:14:41.000 Mind control, brainwashing was sort of the term of the culture, right?

01:14:45.000 And brainwashing was a big issue. 1.00

01:14:47.000 Not a big issue, but it captured people's imagination back then.

01:14:52.000 So the late 40s, early 50s, it was Korean War.

01:14:56.000 Yeah, we had an existential threat, right?

01:14:59.000 We had nukes pointed at each other.

01:15:00.000 We had drills in schools, kids hiding under desks. 1.00

01:15:03.000 I mean, what the fuck? 0.99

01:15:04.000 So with the fear that the Chinese or the Soviets were going to develop mind control abilities... 1.00

01:15:15.000 Was pervasive.

01:15:16.000 And you talk about it now and everybody rolls their eyes and goes, oh my god.

01:15:20.000 But you're absolutely right that you have to understand the context with which then Alan Dulles, who was at the time the director of the CIA... By the way, the guy who Kennedy fired and wound up being a part of the Warren Commission after Kennedy was murdered,

01:15:35.000 which was very strange.

01:15:37.000 Yeah.

01:15:38.000 Oh, I like that.

01:15:40.000 I like where that could go.

01:15:44.000 So anyway, we got Alan Dulles, who in 53...

01:15:51.000 Early in 1953 says, all right, we have to understand what the Soviets are doing, particularly the Soviets.

01:15:59.000 But we also had, you know, again, I'm sure some folks listening know all this, but a lot of folks probably don't.

01:16:06.000 We had POWs returning, American POWs returning from Korea.

01:16:10.000 That was a big issue, right, because some of them came back, again, quote-unquote brainwashed, you know, and some of them didn't want to return because, you know, again...

01:16:18.000 Brainwashing, mind control that perhaps the Chinese had developed these techniques. 0.86

01:16:24.000 So initially the idea was defensive.

01:16:27.000 How do we protect ourselves against this new threat within this Cold War, against these enemies who appear to be devoting great deal of resources against this?

01:16:35.000 Well, so initially it started out as a defensive effort.

01:16:38.000 MKUltra was the umbrella name for a whole bunch, over 140 sub-projects underneath MKUltra.

01:16:47.000 And it was all based around chemical substances, use of chemicals, use of drugs, behavioral issues with human beings, creating false memories, Deleting memory,

01:17:02.000 influencing the behavior, again, of individuals.

01:17:06.000 There were a variety of projects that fell under this MKUltra, and it was, again, starting out as a defensive issue, but then quickly became sort of an offense.

01:17:16.000 How do we become the leader in all of this?

01:17:18.000 Which is typical, right?

01:17:20.000 It's typical in how things develop.

01:17:22.000 It's like cyber warfare.

01:17:23.000 You know, initially it's defensive, and now you think, okay, now we've got to figure out how to make it work on our behalf.

01:17:28.000 And sometimes it's important, like when they shut down the Iran nuclear program with a virus, essentially a computer virus.

01:17:35.000 Absolutely.

01:17:36.000 And where this went off the rails, in a handful of ways, in many ways, Was testing on unwitting subjects, things such as LSD and a variety of other substances.

01:17:48.000 Yeah, whoops.

01:17:50.000 And those subjects, unwitting subjects, ranged everything from in federal prisons to state mental hospitals.

01:17:58.000 And that's where Manson comes in.

01:18:00.000 And that's where Manson comes in and a variety of other people.

01:18:07.000 I would recommend people dig in.

01:18:11.000 Don't settle on just one account.

01:18:15.000 And one of the things that people should also do if they want to read about this is read any testimony that came out of the CIA. And there was some testimony.

01:18:24.000 There were documents written by the Inspector General back in...

01:18:27.000 And this time period was about 53...

01:18:30.000 Through, at least officially acknowledged, 1964. And then the program was wrapped up.

01:18:38.000 Supposedly there were still...

01:18:44.000 Federal programs, military programs, others that were still looking into issues related to the use of chemical substances for everything again from interrogation to behavioral adjustment and a lot of these things were funded Through cutouts.

01:19:08.000 So you'd set up, again, this is early 50s, mid-50s, early 60s, set up financing vehicles through, say, what appear to be Non-threatening grant programs,

01:19:25.000 you know, from research institutes.

01:19:27.000 So you'd loop in academic institutions or researchers.

01:19:31.000 And MKUltra had, at least acknowledged anyway, over 80 academic institutions and others that were either wittingly or unwittingly working on their behalf in various research programs.

01:19:47.000 So, yeah, this Midnight Climax program, basically, they'd kit out a safe house as a brothel, and they would have the hookers slip LSD or whatever substance to the Johns. 0.96

01:20:04.000 Behind a mirror, you'd have a supposed researcher, right?

01:20:09.000 I mean, this is where it got weird.

01:20:10.000 Sitting there having a drink and watching the hooker and the John have sex, and then they'd be analyzing the impact of the LSD on them in terms of their ability to talk. 0.62

01:20:21.000 Was the hooker in on it? 0.99

01:20:22.000 Yeah, the hooker was in on it. 1.00

01:20:24.000 Did we see an employee of the CIA? You know, and it wasn't just the agency, you know, like the army was involved in these things as well. 0.86

01:20:31.000 But they would get, you know, cash payments and oftentimes the get out of jail free card.

01:20:44.000 Ladies, if you're out there. 1.00

01:20:45.000 Yeah, if you're out there.

01:20:46.000 Listen to me.

01:20:46.000 Come on.

01:20:48.000 Whatever you need.

01:20:48.000 I'm forward.

01:20:49.000 I'm here for you.

01:20:50.000 Come on the show.

01:20:51.000 Let's talk.

01:20:52.000 You can wear a Boba Fett mask.

01:20:55.000 I don't care.

01:20:55.000 We'll hide your identity.

01:20:56.000 I don't know why I said Boba Fett.

01:20:58.000 But, I mean, just imagine.

01:20:59.000 I mean, so it's...

01:21:00.000 Okay, so this was clearly, you know, clearly was off the rails, right?

01:21:06.000 And they had a...

01:21:07.000 One of the guys that was involved in this...

01:21:10.000 He was with what used to be called the Federal Bureau of Narcotics.

01:21:14.000 A guy named White, George White, was involved in the San Francisco cat house.

01:21:22.000 And according to the stories, he'd sit there with a martini in his hand and watch the couple have sex. 0.61

01:21:28.000 And he would have prepped the hooker to say, okay, after sex, now this appears to be the best time to get them talking. 1.00

01:21:34.000 So ask them about their job and let's see if they'll talk about their job.

01:21:37.000 The idea being, could we influence...

01:21:40.000 And trap potential assets overseas for operational reasons.

01:21:44.000 Was there some use for operational purposes? 0.95

01:21:47.000 But basically it was just George getting his rocks off, watching couples having sex. 1.00

01:21:54.000 Very, very strange shit. 1.00

01:21:56.000 But you're right in that... 0.99

01:21:58.000 And so again, this went on until 64. MKUltra, interestingly enough, not to spend too much time on it, but Richard Helms was the director.

01:22:08.000 At the time, in the early 70s, and he and a guy named Gottlieb, Sidney Gottlieb, who was the head of technical services at the agency, they agreed that the smart thing to do in 73 before Richard Helms left and Gottlieb left the agency was to destroy all the records.

01:22:25.000 So they purged all the records of MKUltra that they thought existed.

01:22:32.000 This was investigated in the Church Committee back in 75. And then 76, I think it was, they found a bunch of financial records, you know, that had not been purged because they'd been kept, you know, audits of,

01:22:48.000 and again, you're talking about like 149 subprojects of MK Alter.

01:22:52.000 So you can imagine each subproject has its own Accounting and you got to turn in your receipts for the LSD that you bought or the hooker you paid off or whatever, you know, so here's my receipt.

01:23:00.000 Can I have my $12 or whatever you paid for a hooker back then? 0.99

01:23:03.000 And so probably not 12 bucks.

01:23:07.000 But they found some financial records.

01:23:11.000 And so that became then a matter of another investigation up on the Hill.

01:23:18.000 And Stansfield-Turner, the time the CIA director testified at that point, And that's why I brought my laptop, is because Stansfield Turner's testimony is actually pretty interesting, as far as MKUltra goes.

01:23:32.000 And he talks about, we've attempted to group the activities covered by the 149 subprojects into categories under descriptive headings.

01:23:41.000 Wouldn't you?

01:23:41.000 In broad outline, at least, this presents the contents of these files.

01:23:46.000 The headings of the categories of all these various projects that ran under MKUltra, and this gives you a pretty good quick sense of what they were doing at the time.

01:23:55.000 Research into the effects of behavioral drugs and alcohol.

01:23:58.000 There were 17 sub-projects probably not involving human testing.

01:24:03.000 This is a testimony from the director of the CIA, Stansfield-Turner.

01:24:06.000 14 sub-projects definitely involving tests on human volunteers.

01:24:12.000 Nineteen subprojects, probably including tests on human volunteers.

01:24:15.000 While not known, some of these subprojects may have included tests on unwitting subjects as well.

01:24:20.000 While not known?

01:24:21.000 While not known.

01:24:22.000 And then six subprojects, definitely involving tests on unwitting subjects.

01:24:27.000 Research on hypnosis, acquisition of chemicals or drugs, aspects of magician's art.

01:24:34.000 What?

01:24:35.000 Magician's art? 0.60

01:24:36.000 Yeah, like slipping them a mickey or something.

01:24:38.000 How do you do that?

01:24:39.000 Sleight of hand.

01:24:41.000 Studies of human behavior, sleep research, behavioral changes during psychotherapy, motivational studies, studies of defectors, assessment and training techniques, polygraph research, funding mechanisms for MKUltra external research activities,

01:24:57.000 research on drugs, toxins, and biologicals in human tissue, activities whose subjectives cannot be determined from available documentation.

01:25:06.000 Anyway, it goes on.

01:25:07.000 But it gives you a sense of what the hell was happening during this period of time.

01:25:11.000 But again, this doesn't justify it.

01:25:14.000 Obviously, it doesn't.

01:25:14.000 But you're absolutely right that to have a full understanding of this, you have to look at the context of where we were at that time.

01:25:23.000 And where we were was smack dab in the height and elevation of the Cold War.

01:25:31.000 Knowing that our adversaries, our existential threats, were engaged in this sort of behavior.

01:25:36.000 Now, George White was not really a researcher or anything.

01:25:39.000 He was just sitting behind a mirror watching some people, you know, get off.

01:25:42.000 So, clearly...

01:25:44.000 And all the unwitting subjects involved.

01:25:46.000 I mean, but look, they were slipping LSD to agency employees without telling them.

01:25:52.000 Really?

01:25:53.000 Yeah.

01:25:53.000 Oh, yeah.

01:25:53.000 Yeah.

01:25:54.000 And, I mean, it's just...

01:25:58.000 It's not that long ago, but we have to think about it in terms of the same way we thought about Abraham Lincoln.

01:26:06.000 In the context of the times, this wasn't such a horrendous thing to do.

01:26:10.000 They didn't know any better.

01:26:12.000 Really, they didn't know what these substances would do to people, and there wasn't a lot of ways to find out.

01:26:18.000 You know, the Harvard LSD studies that they did that they believe in part were responsible for the Unabomber, There's a lot of other shit that was responsible for the Unabomber, including particularly his childhood.

01:26:30.000 But they did a lot of these studies because they didn't know.

01:26:35.000 I mean, it's one way to find out.

01:26:37.000 I mean, how do you get responsible human subjects?

01:26:41.000 How do you get people to do...

01:26:43.000 Well, there's not a lot of ways other than just test people.

01:26:46.000 Right.

01:26:46.000 And unfortunately, yeah, what this ended up being was, you know, like using the most marginalized people out there, you know, like sex workers or prisoners or whatever.

01:26:55.000 Right.

01:26:56.000 Or Johns.

01:26:56.000 And oftentimes, you know, Johns or just, you know, but that whole thing.

01:27:00.000 But where Tom O'Neill's book is, you know, is really interesting in a couple of ways is if you jump.

01:27:07.000 So MK Alter kind of finished up in 64 officially, right?

01:27:11.000 That's when, you know, the inspector general came out from the agency and said, you got to know, you can't.

01:27:16.000 You can't do this.

01:27:17.000 They had a new inspector general, and they looked and said, this is clearly not where we are supposed to be.

01:27:23.000 But interestingly, funding mechanisms that were used to, again, to dole out grants or to provide a cutout between government and research that was being done, did some of those continue to exist for other programs,

01:27:39.000 other research?

01:27:40.000 And in 1967, You know, you have the Summer of Love, San Francisco, and Tom O'Neill writes about this, and it's very, very interesting.

01:27:51.000 But you had the Haight-Ashbury Free Medical Clinic, which in part was running a couple of projects that were supposedly getting funding from The National Institute for Mental Health, which had previously been a funding mechanism also for MKUltra,

01:28:09.000 you know, a few years in the past.

01:28:11.000 And Roger Smith was a guy who was getting his PhD in criminology.

01:28:18.000 He was working at the Haight-Ashbury Free Medical Clinic and he was also Manson's parole officer.

01:28:25.000 And to your point, Manson was like a brook trout or a rainbow trout that is in some catch-and-release stream, right?

01:28:34.000 He was constantly arrested during the 67-68 period.

01:28:38.000 Remember, the killings happened in August of 69. And, you know, he kept getting released.

01:28:48.000 And he had been in prison, right?

01:28:51.000 In 67, early in that year, he'd been released from prison.

01:28:54.000 So he was on probation.

01:28:57.000 Any violation, certainly some of the things he was getting arrested for, should have sent him back to prison, but he wasn't.

01:29:03.000 So that, to me, is one of the most interesting parts of the book, is this...

01:29:10.000 We're good to go.

01:29:21.000 You know, part of a study and, you know, they were, I'm sure, you know, getting their LSD from there.

01:29:26.000 But also, this guy, Jolly West, who was involved in MKUltra, also ended up having an office at the Haight-Asbury Free Medical Clinic.

01:29:36.000 So, but again, to Tom O'Neill's point...

01:29:39.000 Do you know that clinic closed down about four months after Tom's book came out?

01:29:42.000 Been open for over 50 years?

01:29:44.000 It's crazy.

01:29:44.000 What are the odds?

01:29:45.000 Yeah, I know.

01:29:46.000 What are the odds?

01:29:47.000 I didn't see that coming.

01:29:49.000 Yeah, but I mean, again, I like the book because he does seem to be trying to let the facts of all his research lead the way rather than trying to prove a point that he comes up with at the beginning of his book.

01:30:04.000 Well, he also exposed the prosecutor, Bugliosi, and all the issues that was going on with him that led to him wanting to follow the narrative that they had laid out, that Manson was trying to incite a race war and ignore all the other indicators that there was some deeper connections.

01:30:25.000 Was Manson an informer for the Bureau or for local law enforcement or some other outfit?

01:30:34.000 Hard to tell.

01:30:35.000 Hard to tell, but it's compelling in light of the fact that he kept getting released.

01:30:42.000 He seemed to have a get-out-of-jail-free card.

01:30:45.000 He also seemed to have an unlimited supply of acid.

01:30:47.000 That was what's fascinating.

01:30:49.000 And he also seemed to employ the same techniques that apparently the CIA had employed when they had done experiments on prisoners, including the fact that he would, you know, force them into weird sexual situations and pretend to take LSD himself but not really participate and then,

01:31:05.000 you know, influence them.

01:31:06.000 And he seemed to be doing things to them in terms of, like, trying to alter their behavior and getting them to do things that were outside the norm, including murder.

01:31:14.000 Yeah, I mean, did he see, yeah, did he have a sense from his time there at the clinic or dealing with, what's his name, Roger Smith, his parole officer, who, again, was also a criminology doctor, a doctoral candidate, I guess, and so was, you know,

01:31:29.000 but look, Manson was...

01:31:31.000 You know, he was not a rocket scientist.

01:31:33.000 He was illiterate for the most part until he ended up in prison and maybe who knows.

01:31:38.000 Which is why it was so weird that he was able to manipulate so many people so well.

01:31:42.000 Right.

01:31:42.000 But it was also, it's like, he was the perfect guinea pig.

01:31:47.000 I mean, you're talking about a guy who spent half his life in federal penitentiaries.

01:31:52.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:31:55.000 And also putting it in context of the time, what else did you have going on?

01:32:00.000 You had sort of this, again, this awareness of the impact of LSD on the counterculture, right?

01:32:05.000 So you had federal agencies like the Bureau, for example, worrying about, oh, my God, what are these hippies going to do next? 1.00

01:32:13.000 And they were worried, obviously, about the Black Panthers, but it was also more than that.

01:32:18.000 It was the...

01:32:20.000 The anti-war movement.

01:32:21.000 Yeah, just the general counterculture and the impact of drugs on it.

01:32:25.000 So it's a fascinating...

01:32:27.000 I think it's a very interesting read.

01:32:28.000 And I think it's worth the read because, again, he's spent so much time trying to make his way through and get this book.

01:32:34.000 20 years.

01:32:34.000 Yeah.

01:32:35.000 It's a crazy story.

01:32:37.000 And if you haven't heard the podcast, please listen to it with Tom O'Neill.

01:32:40.000 What number was that, Jamie?

01:32:41.000 Have any idea?

01:32:43.000 But it's just...

01:32:45.000 Do you think that...

01:32:47.000 Those times and the shift between the 50s and the 60s are maybe even a bigger cultural shift than we're experiencing now?

01:32:59.000 Because it seems like when the hippies came around and all the drugs and free love and all that crazy shit in Woodstock, it almost seemed like that is even more of a radical change in culture than we're experiencing today.

01:33:14.000 We're experiencing a lot of turmoil today, but so much of it you could attribute to the problems, the economic despair with COVID and the lockdown and then the George Floyd murder and the Black Lives Matter protests. 0.88

01:33:25.000 There's so many different tangible factors that you could point to.

01:33:29.000 Well, I think the pandemic is certainly a massive part of it, because if you think about it, and this in no way minimizes the importance of the protests and trying to get policing the way that everyone agrees it should be.

01:33:49.000 You know, if everybody was working and we didn't have the pandemic, right, I would argue we wouldn't have seen the protests in Portland.

01:33:57.000 We wouldn't have seen—there is this— Like we talked about earlier.

01:34:00.000 Yeah, these people, they have too much free time.

01:34:01.000 Too much free time.

01:34:02.000 But I don't know.

01:34:04.000 I mean, I remember—I'm old enough to remember, you know, somewhat as a kid, the race riots of the 60s.

01:34:13.000 It's just general upheaval, right? 0.90

01:34:15.000 And I remember, shit, I remember my older sister, you know, down in the basement painting protest signs with a bunch of her friends, and they were going to head downtown to a protest, you know? 0.96

01:34:27.000 And I had a brother, I had two brothers that were in the Vietnam War, and, you know, there was a lot of, you know, they were definitely at odds with each other, right? 0.97

01:34:36.000 You know, here's my sister protesting the war, there's one of my brothers flying F-4s in the war, another medic, and Yeah, so it was a very tumultuous time.

01:34:48.000 I don't think that's where we are now, so I agree with you.

01:34:54.000 I think it was more upheaval then.

01:34:59.000 But it's incredibly disappointing now.

01:35:02.000 I thought we were...

01:35:03.000 Maybe it's obviously naive to some degree, but I kind of thought we were further along than we are now, it seems.

01:35:10.000 And so, you know, it's...

01:35:15.000 Yeah, it's very disappointing and frustrating to see where we're kind of at at this moment in time.

01:35:21.000 And again, part of it's heightened by just the uber-partisanship of everything, but...

01:35:28.000 Yeah.

01:35:29.000 But I don't think we're there. 0.99

01:35:31.000 And I think the pandemic has given us all too much time to reflect on shit. 0.98

01:35:37.000 Also, everyone's so scared that we're projecting it onto other subjects. 0.98

01:35:42.000 And this fear and anxiety, it just accentuates or exacerbates all the other problems that we have.

01:35:49.000 First of all, there's the financial fear, which doesn't seem like there's a way out of it.

01:35:53.000 For a lot of people, for low-income people and people that are losing their jobs and people that are losing their businesses, there doesn't seem to be a light at the end of the tunnel.

01:36:03.000 Yeah.

01:36:04.000 And we're very fortunate in that we've been able to ride out that side of it, right, with the economy and all that.

01:36:14.000 But yeah, all the people – I mean look at the situation currently with just the unemployment and how quickly that took place, right?

01:36:23.000 We were riding high as far as the economy goes just a handful of months ago. 0.96

01:36:27.000 And now the number of people who are worried about, you know, do they have a roof over their head, you know, because maybe they're going to get evicted or, you know, what the fuck?

01:36:34.000 Now I can go back to work, but I can't because my workplace isn't open anymore.

01:36:38.000 Well, you used to hear that everyone is one paycheck away.

01:36:41.000 Right.

01:36:41.000 That was the thing.

01:36:43.000 Most Americans, like 40% of Americans are one paycheck away from being broke. 0.99

01:36:46.000 Well, what the fuck are you doing now? 0.99

01:36:49.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:36:50.000 We're five months later.

01:36:51.000 What does that mean?

01:36:52.000 Well, that's $600 a week, right?

01:36:55.000 I mean, I know I get it, right?

01:36:56.000 The government can't continue to keep kicking cash out the door, right? 0.97

01:36:59.000 But it's not enough, but it's also, I mean, what the fuck's wrong with our politicians, right? 0.68

01:37:07.000 I mean, they're agonizing over this, right? 0.67

01:37:11.000 We've got, you know, how many trillions are we in debt?

01:37:13.000 And so...

01:37:14.000 Fine, but solve the problem now, right?

01:37:17.000 The pandemic, it's not going to last forever, right?

01:37:21.000 We're going to figure this out, and everyone's going to get back to hopefully some relative normalcy.

01:37:26.000 But in the short term, the fact that the Democrats and Republicans can't, you know...

01:37:31.000 Come together and resolve this.

01:37:34.000 They're bickering about, well, what do we do with the next bailout bill, or do we have one, or how much is it going to be a month?

01:37:40.000 And you got people legitimately standing at the door wondering whether they have to leave their apartment or not, or whether they'll have a place to come home to, or how are they going to feed their kids? 1.00

01:37:50.000 And you got these fucking idiot politicians who are just playing games with us, and it always happens, and They're paid. 1.00

01:37:58.000 They're paid. 1.00

01:37:59.000 And if there's no consequence to them, then shit doesn't happen. 0.99

01:38:03.000 I firmly believe that with Washington DC. Nothing happens in Washington unless the politicians personally feel as if there's some consequence to their situation, their position of power. 0.98

01:38:17.000 They're acting as if, you know, there won't be any consequence.

01:38:21.000 And so, you know, they're talking about, oh, we're going to be able to get this done before our August break. 1.00

01:38:24.000 What the fuck? 0.99

01:38:25.000 They're going to take an August break? 1.00

01:38:27.000 I mean, I was stunned by that today when I was talking to somebody in D.C. And they said, yeah, well, they're trying to rush this through before the... 0.98

01:38:33.000 Who takes a fucking break in, you know, in a pandemic? 0.97

01:38:38.000 The middle of a national crisis. 0.99

01:38:38.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.99

01:38:39.000 So, but that's what I... Well, we got to go back and see our constituents.

01:38:42.000 I mean, your constituents would probably tell you to stay in D.C. and get something done.

01:38:46.000 But...

01:38:47.000 I don't know.

01:38:49.000 At the end of the day, it doesn't do any good to sit around and pitch and moan, but I think unless we have term limits and we have campaign finance reform, we're going to be talking about this forever.

01:39:00.000 Or mushrooms.

01:39:03.000 Slip some LSD to a bunch of unwitting politicians and see what happens. 1.00

01:39:06.000 What do you think of all this Pentagon UFO, we've recovered crafts, not of this world talk?

01:39:15.000 Okay, yeah, I think two things.

01:39:17.000 I think, again, can always be true at the same time.

01:39:20.000 I don't think we're the only intelligent life out there.

01:39:22.000 I mean, I'm classifying us as intelligent.

01:39:26.000 But I also don't think we're hiding some alien spacecraft somewhere.

01:39:32.000 So why do you think the Pentagon would come out and say something like that?

01:39:35.000 Well, I think – look, we did – here comes a pitch for my show.

01:39:42.000 For Black Files Declassified.

01:39:44.000 What show is this?

01:39:44.000 That's Black Files Declassified.

01:39:45.000 Black Files Declassified?

01:39:47.000 And how could one watch this show?

01:39:48.000 My God, that was a good first season, wasn't it?

01:39:52.000 It was on Discovery on Science Channel.

01:39:54.000 Ah, I love Discovery.

01:39:55.000 I love the Science Channel.

01:39:57.000 We did an episode on Advanced Aeronautic Threat Identification Program, AATIP. Which was the Pentagon's admitted, you know, came out and said, yes, we have a program that we ran a program, it's no longer in existence, called AATIP, which was designed to identify unidentified aviation threats,

01:40:15.000 basically.

01:40:15.000 So it's not talking about UFOs necessarily.

01:40:17.000 It could be a hostile, you know, prototype aircraft that, you know, what is that?

01:40:21.000 I talked to Commander Fravor.

01:40:23.000 There you go, David Fravor.

01:40:24.000 Yeah, David was in here and he explained his incident off of the coast of San Diego.

01:40:30.000 And he said they tracked this thing.

01:40:32.000 It dropped from 60,000 feet to one foot above the sea in a second.

01:40:38.000 It wasn't just him seeing this, right?

01:40:40.000 No.

01:40:40.000 It was the radar operators on board and his wingmen.

01:40:43.000 Exactly.

01:40:44.000 Yeah.

01:40:44.000 So, but I think...

01:40:46.000 They said it was tracking them, and then it actually actively blocked their tracking.

01:40:51.000 And then no visible means of propulsion.

01:40:55.000 Exactly.

01:40:55.000 No heat signal.

01:40:58.000 Yeah.

01:40:59.000 I mean, so I think it's...

01:41:00.000 Look, and he's a very credible witness.

01:41:02.000 He's as credible as a jet.

01:41:03.000 Yeah.

01:41:03.000 Right.

01:41:04.000 And so...

01:41:08.000 He's not the only one.

01:41:09.000 Yeah, not everything, I mean, but— What do you think of that?

01:41:12.000 Yeah, well, I think—yeah, I think we don't—here's what I think.

01:41:20.000 We haven't resolved that issue.

01:41:22.000 We don't know.

01:41:23.000 There was no— Final report that gave some sort of conclusive evidence that said this is what this object was.

01:41:33.000 It is considered still to this day to be an anomaly, perhaps, of, you know, just no clarification, which is interesting in all by itself.

01:41:42.000 And again, kind of goes back to this, look, are we the only intelligent people?

01:41:44.000 No.

01:41:46.000 But do I think that the government is capable All these years of holding a secret like that?

01:41:53.000 No, I really don't. 0.98

01:41:55.000 I think there's – much like with MKUltra or anything else, eventually shit hits the fan. 0.94

01:42:00.000 Stuff comes out.

01:42:02.000 And I don't think the – I'm not one of those and I say this and I'm sure a lot of people disagree.

01:42:07.000 But I just don't think that the government is capable of keeping secrets for the long term, certainly not of this magnitude.

01:42:14.000 But I think there are certainly things that have happened that we can't explain.

01:42:19.000 And one of them would be the citing by Fravor. 0.96

01:42:22.000 But materials that aren't from Earth, look, shit hits the Earth from space all the time.

01:42:35.000 And that qualifies as a material that is not found. 0.94

01:42:39.000 That's not what I said, though.

01:42:40.000 Right.

01:42:43.000 They said they've recovered crafts not from this world.

01:42:48.000 Yeah, I'd like to...

01:42:49.000 I would want to sit down with the individual saying that and say, okay, clarify this, please.

01:42:56.000 I'd want to take him to one of them brothels. 1.00

01:42:57.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:42:58.000 Oh, absolutely.

01:42:59.000 I'd sit down with the martini behind that mirror.

01:43:02.000 Hey, man, tell me what you really saw.

01:43:04.000 There you go. 1.00

01:43:05.000 Bring one of those hookers in from the 60s. 1.00

01:43:07.000 No. 1.00

01:43:09.000 No.

01:43:10.000 Don't do that to her or him.

01:43:11.000 No.

01:43:12.000 I would want to know, though, what...

01:43:15.000 What is actually happening?

01:43:17.000 And why would they come out with a statement like that?

01:43:19.000 Well, I'm going to tell you something.

01:43:20.000 This is between you and me.

01:43:23.000 Is the second season of Black Files Declassified?

01:43:26.000 We're going to be looking at that.

01:43:29.000 Why do you think?

01:43:31.000 I don't know what the...

01:43:32.000 That's the big question, is why would they say that?

01:43:35.000 And I don't have an answer for that.

01:43:37.000 I don't know.

01:43:38.000 And that's why I say it...

01:43:40.000 It's a shocker.

01:43:41.000 It definitely bears further investigation.

01:43:42.000 That goes without saying.

01:43:43.000 If there was a thing that was coming...

01:43:46.000 They would want to prepare people. 0.99

01:43:48.000 And I think if you wanted to prepare people, the best way to prepare people is to slowly give them signs that some shit is about to go down. 0.98

01:43:55.000 And one of the best ways is to say, we have found things that are not of this world. 0.98

01:44:02.000 Okay, think about that for a little while.

01:44:04.000 We'll see you in a few months.

01:44:06.000 A few months of accepting that.

01:44:11.000 See, there's no event, right?

01:44:13.000 It's just a statement.

01:44:14.000 What was the exact wording?

01:44:15.000 Can we bring that up?

01:44:18.000 Here it is.

01:44:20.000 Harry Reid said he believed crashes of vehicles from other worlds had occurred and that retrieved materials had been studied secretly for decades.

01:44:29.000 Now, you know Bob Lazar.

01:44:32.000 Do you know the story of Bob Lazar?

01:44:33.000 Bob Lazar was in here and he said some things that were ridiculed but turned out to be absolutely true.

01:44:41.000 One of the things that he said was that there was this element, this element 115, and that they had figured out a way to stabilize this element in these other planets and that's what they used.

01:44:52.000 To propel these vehicles with a different kind of propulsion that manipulated gravity and it essentially had created some sort of a warp where they weren't subject to the same laws of physics with this propulsion system that we are with what we have which is just igniting fuel and pushing the explosion pushes the rocket into space.

01:45:18.000 Which could explain sort of the Fravor sighting.

01:45:21.000 Yeah, the way he described these vehicles in the 1980s and the early 1990s is exactly the way Fravor's vehicle worked.

01:45:31.000 Exactly the way the gimbal video worked.

01:45:34.000 These things, for whatever reason, they fly one way and then they turn sideways.

01:45:39.000 Like if you had a plate, the plate turns up and down.

01:45:45.000 And then that's the way it travels.

01:45:47.000 And then somehow or another, that's how it travels insanely fast.

01:45:51.000 It does something to manipulate gravity around it.

01:45:53.000 It sounds super weird.

01:45:56.000 But the fact that this guy talked about this in the early 90s, and then this is the exact video that the Pentagon refers to.

01:46:04.000 That you actually see these objects that they can't explain, that don't give off a heat signal, that move in this exact same way at spectacular rates of speed.

01:46:13.000 And then that's how the TikTok craft worked too.

01:46:16.000 Right.

01:46:17.000 Well, I mean, yeah, I... Yeah, there's a leap there necessarily that you've got to make.

01:46:25.000 I don't want to make that leap either.

01:46:26.000 I know what you're saying. 0.97

01:46:27.000 For years, I was like, it's all horseshit. 0.96

01:46:30.000 I mean, I'm not saying it couldn't happen. 0.96

01:46:32.000 I'm just saying there's certain parts of this.

01:46:35.000 Like, okay, Harry Reid talking about it.

01:46:36.000 Well, look, Harry Reid was very interested in this stuff.

01:46:41.000 He allocated some federal funds to one of his buddies in Nevada to create a...

01:46:49.000 It's sort of a center, you know, for examining this and for developing space exploration capabilities.

01:46:57.000 So Harry Reid is certainly interested in this.

01:47:01.000 I talked to Lou Elizondo, who ran ATEP, right?

01:47:08.000 You don't really get that answer when you say, okay, Lou, was ATIP holding on to materials that came from an alien craft?

01:47:21.000 No.

01:47:22.000 You know, what they're saying is...

01:47:23.000 Right, but maybe it was an A-tip that was involved in that aspect of the...

01:47:25.000 Maybe it was an A-tip, yeah.

01:47:26.000 Yeah.

01:47:27.000 No, that's...

01:47:27.000 Okay, yeah, I get that.

01:47:28.000 And again, I guess what I'm saying is I'm open to say, yeah, fine.

01:47:31.000 Like, anything's possible, I suppose, in this world.

01:47:36.000 Things that I do know is it's, you know, it's...

01:47:39.000 I have a really hard time believing the government could keep this all buttoned up over a period of time.

01:47:45.000 Isn't there a genuine ridicule factor for coming forward that would help?

01:47:51.000 I mean that's a part of the whole thing about all the UFO stories. 0.95

01:47:56.000 They're so ridiculous.

01:47:57.000 Well, that's why they set up ATIP to begin with, right? 0.98

01:48:00.000 So that they could have sort of a legitimate outlet and a place for this to go.

01:48:07.000 But yeah, Fravor himself talks about it.

01:48:08.000 Look, it's not in their best interest to get back on the carrier and say, by the way, we spotted an unidentified flying object.

01:48:16.000 But they did.

01:48:20.000 Yeah, and you're right.

01:48:21.000 So the natural tendency is to kind of look the other way or roll your eyes.

01:48:25.000 And that can act as a deterrent.

01:48:29.000 Yeah.

01:48:30.000 I don't know.

01:48:31.000 But I do think that it bears further investigation.

01:48:35.000 There's no doubt about that.

01:48:37.000 And I think that the AATIP program that the Pentagon was running You know, for the minimal cost of that compared to the cost of another air asset or, you know, platform of some sort, I think they should have kept it going, right?

01:48:50.000 And they should have normalized to some degree because it's in our national security interest to know, have the Russians or have others developed materials, right?

01:48:59.000 Or propulsions.

01:49:00.000 Everybody's working on new propulsion systems, right?

01:49:03.000 Everybody that has the ability and the resources.

01:49:05.000 So hypersonic crafter, that's just coming.

01:49:08.000 That's going to happen.

01:49:09.000 And whoever wins that particular race is going to be further up the food chain than everybody else.

01:49:15.000 So it's in our national interest to be exploring any legitimate or potentially legitimate sighting to understand what that is.

01:49:25.000 That doesn't mean you're chasing UFOs or sort of spacecraft from...

01:49:29.000 It just means...

01:49:30.000 You should know what the hell that is or what's out there.

01:49:34.000 So I'm a big proponent of that.

01:49:36.000 I'm just saying also you have to proceed with caution.

01:49:39.000 For sure.

01:49:40.000 I mean, I feel like the new normal that we're experiencing right now in the pandemic, it really illuminated to me how easily human beings adapt to things.

01:49:49.000 We adapt to everything.

01:49:51.000 We really do.

01:49:52.000 We just accept it.

01:49:54.000 Well, this is the new thing.

01:49:55.000 We exist.

01:49:56.000 Like phones.

01:49:57.000 We accept the fact that we just always have a phone on us now. 0.99

01:50:00.000 And when you and I were growing up, there's no fucking phones. 0.95

01:50:03.000 Did you have phones on the wall, right? 0.99

01:50:05.000 I mean, with a cord.

01:50:06.000 Sure.

01:50:07.000 And if you were lucky, you had a long cord so you could take the phone away from your parents when you talk to your friends.

01:50:12.000 Oh, yeah.

01:50:13.000 Yeah.

01:50:14.000 Absolutely.

01:50:15.000 We used to have the dial. 0.99

01:50:16.000 We had the dial, and then when we got the push-button phones, I thought we were the living shit, right? 0.99

01:50:20.000 Oh, yeah. 0.99

01:50:20.000 We got the push-button. 0.99

01:50:21.000 You were a rock star with a push-button.

01:50:23.000 Man, and then you'd take that phone.

01:50:26.000 If you got a call from your girlfriend or whatever, when you were younger, you'd go and try to get as far away from your parents as you could.

01:50:33.000 You'd whisper.

01:50:35.000 I can't talk.

01:50:36.000 I can't talk right now.

01:50:37.000 Do you remember when they came up with Star 69?

01:50:39.000 Yeah.

01:50:39.000 Do you remember that?

01:50:41.000 Somebody called you and they hung up.

01:50:42.000 You press star 69 and you call them right back. 1.00

01:50:45.000 You're like, hey, motherfucker, I got new technology. 1.00

01:50:48.000 You can't just be calling me. 1.00

01:50:49.000 What do you want?

01:50:50.000 What do you want?

01:50:50.000 I remember when I first used that.

01:50:52.000 People were like, how'd you get my number? 1.00

01:50:53.000 Star 69, you bitch. 1.00

01:50:56.000 Now everybody's got one of these, including Muggsy, my youngest. 0.99

01:51:00.000 Oh, by the way, I told him I would mention this.

01:51:03.000 The oldest boy, Scooter, who's just turned 13, he...

01:51:07.000 He walked by yesterday before I got on a plane, and he said, where are you going?

01:51:11.000 I said, I'm going to Los Angeles.

01:51:12.000 Why are you going to Los Angeles?

01:51:13.000 And I said, well, I got a couple of meetings, and I'm going to sit down with Rogan.

01:51:18.000 And, you know, he's watched some of your podcasts.

01:51:20.000 I'm sorry.

01:51:21.000 Yeah.

01:51:23.000 Only the good ones.

01:51:24.000 They were the appropriate ones, the age-appropriate ones.

01:51:27.000 I don't know which ones those are.

01:51:28.000 There are none.

01:51:28.000 Good luck.

01:51:29.000 Yeah, there are none.

01:51:30.000 But he says, ah, he says, great.

01:51:32.000 Now, as we're having this conversation about you, Muggsy walked by, and he's eight years old, and He walks by and he stops and he listens for a second and he goes, Rogan?

01:51:42.000 And I said, yeah.

01:51:43.000 And he says, you're going to see Rogan?

01:51:44.000 And I said, yeah.

01:51:45.000 And he looks for a second and he goes, don't know who he is.

01:51:48.000 Turns around and walks away.

01:51:50.000 And I thought, yeah, that's it.

01:51:51.000 That's what I'm going to tell Joe.

01:51:53.000 That's perfect.

01:51:54.000 But even Muggsy's got a, even he's got a phone, right? 0.97

01:51:57.000 How old is he?

01:51:58.000 He's eight. 1.00

01:51:59.000 Damn! 0.99

01:51:59.000 He actually just turned nine. 0.99

01:52:00.000 Just turned nine.

01:52:01.000 You gave an eight-year-old a phone?

01:52:01.000 Well, you know, in case they're about to get mauled by a bear, that's good.

01:52:04.000 Well, yeah, that's important.

01:52:05.000 Or lifted off the ground by a hawk.

01:52:07.000 Or a UFO. Yeah.

01:52:09.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:52:10.000 Well, that's the other thing is, again, the idea that we've had visitors from another planet, but they just got bored with us or something, I don't know, and decided, nah, fuck it, it's not worth it. 0.98

01:52:21.000 Who knows? 0.92

01:52:22.000 I don't think they're doing that. 0.98

01:52:23.000 I think they're waiting for us to fuck up hugely. 0.99

01:52:26.000 That's what I think. 0.99

01:52:27.000 What the hell is 2020?

01:52:28.000 How much more time do they need?

01:52:29.000 I think they're closing in. 1.00

01:52:31.000 These assholes are really close to entering war with China or Syria or Iran. 1.00

01:52:37.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:52:38.000 Well, the China thing, yeah, who knows?

01:52:40.000 We haven't even talked to it.

01:52:40.000 I know everybody.

01:52:41.000 Whenever they hear I'm going to be doing this, I'm sure they probably think I'm going to come on and bash China.

01:52:45.000 The China thing is an interesting one, right?

01:52:47.000 I mean, it is a very interesting one right now because China's been buying up a lot of assets when they realized that the pandemic was kicking in.

01:52:56.000 And there's a lot of companies that are – China owns a large stake in them now.

01:53:01.000 Yeah.

01:53:02.000 Yeah, no, it's...

01:53:03.000 Look, again, they...

01:53:04.000 TikTok's about to get banned.

01:53:05.000 Ooh, TikTok.

01:53:06.000 That's going to piss off my middle boy, Sluggo.

01:53:08.000 He's a...

01:53:09.000 Well, Facebook, coincidentally, Facebook, or Instagram, I should say, is about to release Reels, which is their version of TikTok. 0.98

01:53:16.000 Remember how they, like, they fucking cock-blocked Snapchat with Instagram stories? 0.74

01:53:21.000 Well, they're about to cock-block TikTok with Instagram Reels, and then they're going to lure all the kids over to Reels. 0.97

01:53:29.000 Yeah, that's the thing.

01:53:30.000 By the time we get, and I'm sure it happens with your kids too, by the time you get hip to whatever trend they got, I just said hip, to whatever trend the kids have, they're two trends down the road.

01:53:42.000 Yeah, TikTok is old school, dude.

01:53:43.000 Right, right. 0.99

01:53:44.000 They don't give a shit anymore about that. 0.98

01:53:45.000 Yeah, they're doing some new stuff. 0.99

01:53:46.000 But the thing about the TikTok thing that's interesting, this is the tinfoil hat part, put that on again.

01:53:53.000 There's always been this talk that Facebook helped Trump win the election.

01:53:58.000 And they have been the least reluctant, the most reluctant, I should say, to censor Trump stuff.

01:54:06.000 And there's a lot of people that think that Mark Zuckerberg is in some way, or Facebook is in some way responsible for getting Trump elected because they benefit from all the interaction.

01:54:16.000 It's one of the last places where conservatives can freely discuss things, except the hydroxychloroquine thing.

01:54:23.000 They've taken that down.

01:54:25.000 But Facebook owns Instagram, and Instagram has Reels.

01:54:30.000 And if TikTok, if Trump comes in, Reels has not been released yet, correct?

01:54:37.000 I think it's early August, which is like any minute now, right?

01:54:40.000 So what are we, the third?

01:54:42.000 What is today?

01:54:42.000 The third, yeah, it's the third.

01:54:44.000 So if they come along and they ban TikTok and introduce Reels at the same time, I'm going to be a little special.

01:54:53.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:54:54.000 No, I agree on that, but I think what's going to happen is I think they're going to orchestrate a deal.

01:54:59.000 Microsoft will take over.

01:55:01.000 At least the U.S., Canada, what, Australia?

01:55:06.000 New Zealand, you know, they'll take over those operations of TikTok.

01:55:09.000 I don't know why that would be particularly appealing to Microsoft unless they take the whole global community of TikTok users, right?

01:55:17.000 Which is whatever, 800 million, you know, I mean, there's got maybe 80 to 90 million or so in the U.S., But I think they want to get a deal done by September sometime.

01:55:27.000 Well, Microsoft has missed the ball when it comes to mobile. 0.99

01:55:30.000 I mean, they fucked up. 0.96

01:55:31.000 They made some critical errors that they could have had a Windows phone that was as big as the iPhone. 0.99

01:55:37.000 They were right there.

01:55:39.000 They had their phone that looked like Windows 10 where it had the little tiles.

01:55:44.000 I remember I was at the Ice House and some guy had a Windows phone.

01:55:48.000 And I was like, what is that?

01:55:49.000 And he's like, it's the Windows phone.

01:55:51.000 He's showing me. 0.99

01:55:51.000 I go, that looks pretty fucking dope. 0.99

01:55:53.000 I go, how do you like it? 0.98

01:55:54.000 He goes, I like it a lot.

01:55:55.000 And then it never went anywhere.

01:55:57.000 And it was done.

01:55:58.000 We're talking like, this is like 2000. When did they come out with the Windows phone?

01:56:03.000 2008 or some shit? 0.91

01:56:05.000 Something like that. 0.82

01:56:05.000 And they just decided it wasn't worth the revenue stream? 0.82

01:56:07.000 I think the iPhone came out, if I remember correct, in 2007. I want to say 2007. I think the Windows phone was right after that.

01:56:15.000 They just fucked up. 0.91

01:56:17.000 2010 the iPhone came out? 1.00

01:56:19.000 No, the Windows phone.

01:56:20.000 The Windows phone, yeah.

01:56:21.000 So a few years later, and they just dropped the ball.

01:56:24.000 They never really caught on. 0.96

01:56:26.000 And this is back when Android was really clunky and shitty. 0.58

01:56:28.000 And that happens quick, too, though, because if you don't get in on the market, right, pretty quick, it's, you know, you're always playing catch-up. 0.62

01:56:35.000 Yeah.

01:56:35.000 But, no, you're right.

01:56:37.000 I mean, you know, it's...

01:56:39.000 I look at the technology, I look at the phones, and...

01:56:45.000 I'm not super excited about my kids having phones, but at the same time, then it becomes—it's less so during a pandemic—but it becomes a security issue in terms of I want to be able to track them and know where they are.

01:56:57.000 And short of microchipping the kids, you know, then the phone is a pretty good way to know where they are.

01:57:03.000 You just have to, as a parent, you just got to be on lockdown all the time with them, right? 0.98

01:57:07.000 Because it's just a— You know, it's a window into a lot of shit that you don't want kids of that age to be paying attention to. 0.98

01:57:15.000 Right, exactly. 0.99

01:57:16.000 I mean, literally the whole world.

01:57:18.000 Basically, yeah.

01:57:18.000 Yeah, you give your kid a phone, you're basically, they have the internet.

01:57:22.000 They have everything.

01:57:23.000 Yeah.

01:57:24.000 Including clicking on things that put viruses and, you know, all sorts of malware on their computer, on their phones.

01:57:31.000 Yeah, no, and that's, you know, again, obviously that brings us back around to TikTok a little bit, but...

01:57:38.000 Yeah.

01:57:39.000 It is interesting.

01:57:41.000 The relationship that we're in right now, people were having a conversation the other day about, are we in a Cold War already with China?

01:57:48.000 And the answer is yes.

01:57:49.000 I mean, we don't have nukes pointing at each other necessarily the way we did during the Soviet days.

01:57:54.000 But yeah, we're in a Cold War with China right now, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, right? 0.98

01:57:59.000 As long as we deal with it properly, right?

01:58:02.000 And, you know, developing better trade protocols, developing a better understanding of Of their agenda, their interests, that's a good thing, as long as we do it, again, properly.

01:58:18.000 Yeah. 0.85

01:58:18.000 China scares the shit out of me. 0.85

01:58:20.000 I was watching a video the other day of the Uyghur Muslims and what they're doing and rounding these people up and forcing them on trains. 1.00

01:58:28.000 It's terrifying.

01:58:29.000 It's like, what are they doing?

01:58:30.000 And they have no accountability.

01:58:31.000 They don't have to...

01:58:34.000 Now, Xi literally has set himself up.

01:58:36.000 We talk about Putin as, you know, setting himself up as president for life.

01:58:38.000 But Xi literally has set himself up as president for life.

01:58:41.000 Now, if the Chinese economy, you know, goes sideways in a big way, all bets are off, right?

01:58:47.000 And he may not be as stable as he's been thinking.

01:58:51.000 But he's spent years now...

01:58:54.000 Strengthening and building up the intel apparatus within China for his own purposes and further moving away from this idea that somehow China was going to have a rule of law.

01:59:08.000 That doesn't exist there. 0.97

01:59:10.000 I mean, look, they fucked over the people of Hong Kong. 0.98

01:59:14.000 Hardcore. 0.99

01:59:14.000 We're good to go. 0.99

01:59:30.000 While we're all looking that way, Xi saw an opportunity and just fucked them over. 0.94

01:59:36.000 They issued arrest warrants for US citizens. 0.97

01:59:39.000 Yeah.

01:59:40.000 And there's really no consequence, so far anyway.

01:59:44.000 There's a few talks of sanctions.

01:59:48.000 You know, some...

01:59:49.000 But it doesn't mean anything.

01:59:51.000 They essentially used the pandemic to decide to impose the same sort of restrictive laws that they have in the rest of China with Hong Kong.

01:59:58.000 Yeah.

01:59:59.000 Where Hong Kong used to be under British law, and then was it in 97 it transferred over to China?

02:00:04.000 Yeah, and it was going to be 2047. That was the playing field they had in Hong Kong up until 2047. What kind of goofy-ass deal did they negotiate where they gave it up in 97?

02:00:16.000 It's so stupid. 0.99

02:00:17.000 Well, yeah, I mean, they really didn't have an option, so they felt that they were negotiating as best they could. 1.00

02:00:29.000 There was a sense, I think, at the time that, look, we either do this and guarantee some runway for the people of Hong Kong with some pseudo-democracy, or, you know, China's just going to say, fuck you, get the hell out, and it's ours. 0.96

02:00:43.000 I don't think China would have done that, because, look, they... 0.97

02:00:47.000 They need Hong Kong as a legitimate financial capital, right?

02:00:51.000 But I think what's going to happen now, given what they've just recently done, is they're going to turn Hong Kong at best into a pass-through for hard currency, basically.

02:01:01.000 And you're going to see a lot of people moving out, not just expats and financial institutions. 0.97

02:01:09.000 You're going to see a lot of the more successful and educated Hong Kong citizens who are running businesses there, who have been running businesses there, saying, fuck it, it's not worth it. 0.97

02:01:25.000 And so, you know, I think the Chinese regime, I think, has probably fucked themselves over in a way, but it's just an indication of Xi's mindset. 0.98

02:01:36.000 He doesn't really care. 0.91

02:01:38.000 And it's just like their buildup of military capabilities in the South Pacific.

02:01:42.000 They're working in cyber activity.

02:01:46.000 They're continuing hoovering up intellectual property.

02:01:50.000 It's not going to stop them, you know?

02:01:52.000 I mean, now, it's better that we do make an effort.

02:01:55.000 It's better that we do, you know, put sanctions on them for a variety of reasons, including the Uyghurs. 1.00

02:02:01.000 But will it change overall?

02:02:02.000 Will it change their behavior?

02:02:04.000 Probably not.

02:02:06.000 It's so weird.

02:02:07.000 It's so weird to watch it happen.

02:02:09.000 It's something that people weren't really terrified of 10 years ago.

02:02:14.000 They weren't worried about China taking over the world.

02:02:16.000 But now it seems like it's a real possibility.

02:02:18.000 Yeah, and in fact, it wasn't that they weren't worried about it.

02:02:20.000 They were looking at China like... 0.87

02:02:22.000 You know, it's a great marketplace.

02:02:25.000 You know, this is where we need to be now.

02:02:26.000 And you could argue that tech companies still do that, right?

02:02:28.000 The tech companies, they don't look at China, you know, as a threat to national security.

02:02:34.000 They look at China as an opportunity, right? 0.54

02:02:37.000 And they always have.

02:02:38.000 So that explains in part, you know, sort of their behavior towards the Chinese regime.

02:02:46.000 But, yeah, make no doubt about it.

02:02:49.000 Xi's got his eyes set on being at the top of the food chain.

02:02:52.000 So, you know, we can either deal with it or we can pretend it doesn't exist.

02:02:56.000 Do you think they're going to ban more companies the same way they banned Huawei?

02:03:02.000 Well, it depends on what happens in November, right?

02:03:06.000 I guarantee you that the Chinese government would like to see Biden win.

02:03:10.000 Really?

02:03:10.000 Oh, yeah, absolutely.

02:03:12.000 I mean, as would, you know, for their own reasons, I think...

02:03:20.000 People who subscribe to the Trump as Putin's puppet will scoff at this idea.

02:03:25.000 But look, the Russians, I think, would prefer to see Biden win as well, right?

02:03:28.000 I mean, they can get back to business as usual, probably ease up on the sanctions.

02:03:33.000 The hard left, anyway, has been very successful over the years at this Russian narrative. 0.81

02:03:41.000 And fine.

02:03:41.000 It worked for them.

02:03:42.000 You know, they'd spent three years in this, you know, pushing this particular narrative.

02:03:48.000 But I think overall, the Chinese, the Russians, they would prefer to see someone like Biden come in.

02:03:54.000 I think they feel like it would be a more collegial approach from the White House, less confrontational.

02:04:03.000 And I think that's just where we're at.

02:04:07.000 Look, I mean, you know...

02:04:10.000 Bill Gates.

02:04:12.000 Bob Gates used to be the director of the agency, and he worked for a couple of administrations.

02:04:18.000 And he said himself that Biden's never been on the right side of a foreign policy decision.

02:04:26.000 So that's one area where, again, going back to what we talked about earlier, is if he's going to choose a vice president, I'd rather he choose somebody who's got as much national security and foreign policy experience as possible.

02:04:39.000 Because I think that's one area where he's going to be lacking.

02:04:42.000 Even though he says, oh, I've worked in foreign policy all my life.

02:04:45.000 Doesn't mean anything.

02:04:46.000 Just because you were there doesn't mean you've got good judgment or, you know, anyway.

02:04:52.000 What do I know?

02:04:53.000 Do you think that the policies that Trump's put in place for China are actually beneficial to the United States?

02:04:58.000 Do you think it's a good step?

02:05:00.000 Yeah, I do.

02:05:01.000 I do.

02:05:01.000 Because it's put them on the back of China.

02:05:02.000 I mean, it's put them on the back foot, right?

02:05:04.000 That's not a bad thing.

02:05:06.000 Made them a little less sure about what they're doing.

02:05:09.000 They've had to think about things a little bit more.

02:05:11.000 They have had to...

02:05:11.000 Yeah, the sanctions.

02:05:13.000 I wish that we would sanction them hard for the Uyghurs. 1.00

02:05:16.000 I wish we would sanction them very hard for what they've done in Hong Kong.

02:05:20.000 I'd like to see that happen.

02:05:22.000 I think what we're seeing now, though, is obviously the pandemic has deflected a lot of attention. 0.98

02:05:27.000 And also, you know, the closer you get to any presidential election, the less shit gets done.

02:05:31.000 You know, I just so I don't know that anything meaningful is going to happen over the course of the next handful of months. 0.99

02:05:37.000 And who knows what the fuck's gonna happen in November? 0.78

02:05:40.000 What do you think is gonna happen? 0.98

02:05:42.000 I agree with you when you said earlier that you can't believe the polls, right?

02:05:46.000 So I don't believe the polls.

02:05:48.000 I think people are tired of the – who are exhausted from just sort of the general drama of having somebody like Trump in the office.

02:05:56.000 So I think there's a potential for a lot of people who may like the policies. 0.99

02:06:01.000 Or some of the policies and prefer them to a hard left agenda or a left agenda, I think there's a chance for them to say, oh, fuck it. 0.99

02:06:09.000 I'm too tired and I don't want that. 0.99

02:06:12.000 And maybe they'll look at Biden and think, eh, it's a return to some normalcy.

02:06:17.000 Will there be debates?

02:06:19.000 Yeah.

02:06:21.000 I'll bet there ends up being one.

02:06:23.000 Well, if there's a debate, that's where it all falls apart.

02:06:28.000 That's where the wheels come off.

02:06:29.000 Get ready. 0.99

02:06:30.000 Get ready to fucking get Trump campaign manager. 0.99

02:06:32.000 We want more debates against Biden and sooner. 0.98

02:06:35.000 The first one's September 29th, maybe?

02:06:38.000 They're probably pumping Biden up with steroids and alpha brain right now.

02:06:42.000 Could you imagine?

02:06:43.000 It's probably in a lab somewhere.

02:06:44.000 They got a vat from Onnit. 1.00

02:06:46.000 It goes right into a fucking IV. I think I heard there's something like 16 states would already technically be done by voting by September 29th. 0.98

02:06:55.000 So they want to try to have some before that.

02:06:57.000 But I think they're only supposed to have three or something.

02:07:00.000 Say that one more time.

02:07:01.000 16 states could be finished with voting?

02:07:03.000 By that time, 16 states will already have voted.

02:07:05.000 Because they're doing it with mail-in ballots.

02:07:08.000 Yeah.

02:07:09.000 God, this is going to be so strange.

02:07:12.000 This is going to be such a contested election no matter what, and I'm really worried about the chaos that could ensue after it's over.

02:07:18.000 Well, think about that. 0.98

02:07:19.000 I mean, look, I'm a big fan of going to the voting booth, actually getting out, driving or walking, pulling the fucking lever. 0.99

02:07:27.000 Can't they do it outside? 0.98

02:07:29.000 Yeah, sure.

02:07:30.000 Can't they social distance?

02:07:31.000 I mean, obviously, weather permitting, but fine.

02:07:35.000 I think the problem is, look...

02:07:39.000 Until Trump talked about, you know, the problems with the post office and, you know, mail delivery and the idea that we're going to have mail-in ballots as opposed to absentee ballots, you know, before that... 0.98

02:07:53.000 9 out of 10 people, that's not statistically accurate, but I'm sure a lot of people would have said, the fucking postal system, they can't deliver the mail. 0.78

02:08:00.000 But now, because Trump comes out and says, it's going, oh my god, I love the postal system, and he's trying to destroy the postal system. 0.96

02:08:08.000 It's like what he did with hydroxychloroquine.

02:08:10.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:08:10.000 It's the same thing.

02:08:11.000 Everything the guy touches.

02:08:11.000 Right, right.

02:08:12.000 Look, and I've ordered hydroxychloroquine through the mail, and it hasn't arrived.

02:08:16.000 So what am I to think?

02:08:18.000 It's the touch of death.

02:08:20.000 But can you imagine if we have an election where you do this and then you don't know the results for five or six or seven days because they're still counting ballots, right?

02:08:30.000 Oh, my God.

02:08:31.000 Yeah, can you imagine what that reporting is going to be like?

02:08:35.000 And all the paranoia on both sides, the right and the left going up, you know, exactly what...

02:08:40.000 The whole thing is... 0.98

02:08:42.000 How about these QAnon fucks? 0.99

02:08:43.000 That period of time could be fucking crazy. 1.00

02:08:45.000 These really crazy... 0.99

02:08:46.000 Oh, God. 0.97

02:08:47.000 ...right-wing, the really nutty conspiracy folks.

02:08:50.000 How are they going to handle that?

02:08:52.000 Yeah.

02:08:52.000 Well, that's it.

02:08:54.000 And you got people on both sides, right?

02:08:57.000 Crazy is not limited to one part of the spectrum.

02:09:00.000 So you got people on both sides.

02:09:02.000 And if you...

02:09:03.000 The beauty of the elections in the past have been, by the end of the night, you got a winner, right?

02:09:09.000 And now, if you don't know, and you can't tell me that, and it's not, you know, I'm just saying, the realities are, you got to be pragmatic.

02:09:17.000 You want to go with all, you know, mail ballots or whatever?

02:09:21.000 Hey, Just be aware of the fact that you could have a lot of problems, a lot of disqualified ballots because of a variety of reasons, a lot of lost ballots.

02:09:31.000 And so if what you want to do is sow chaos and dissent and further this divide, then yeah, that's a pretty good way to do it.

02:09:40.000 Or you can figure out how to fucking get everybody to the ballots, to the polling booths, and make that happen. 0.99

02:09:47.000 Just fucking do it. 0.98

02:09:49.000 And if you want to have voting booths where people wear masks and hazmat suits, fine. 0.99

02:09:57.000 But figure out a way to get people to the voting booth.

02:10:01.000 I don't think that the mail-in thing could be wrought with fraud, like the White House, like Trump.

02:10:07.000 It could be lots of fraud.

02:10:10.000 I think it's just pragmatics as You could have a lot of logistical problems with that.

02:10:16.000 Well, I don't understand why they can't vote online.

02:10:20.000 Why can you bank online, but you can't vote online?

02:10:23.000 How's that not...

02:10:24.000 Yeah.

02:10:24.000 And the thing is, if you could vote online, if people didn't have to physically go to a place, do you know how many more people would vote?

02:10:31.000 It'd probably be insane.

02:10:32.000 Because what is the number now?

02:10:33.000 Like, what percentage of people now vote?

02:10:35.000 Is it like 40%?

02:10:36.000 Yeah, somewhere in the 40 percentile. 0.99

02:10:38.000 I bet we'd get that bitch up to 70. Yeah. 1.00

02:10:41.000 I bet we'd get it up pretty high.

02:10:42.000 If you could register on your phone and vote on your phone, my God.

02:10:46.000 Why can't you do that?

02:10:48.000 Well, there's security issues related to that, as we all know, in terms of the hijacking or the security of the system that would be in place. 0.97

02:10:57.000 Especially people who click on every fucking link someone sends them in a text message. 0.96

02:11:03.000 What's that, Click? 1.00

02:11:04.000 There's that.

02:11:05.000 No, I agree with you in the sense that it would, theoretically, it would improve the turnout for sure.

02:11:11.000 And it would certainly make life easier for a lot of people.

02:11:14.000 As with, and again, my issue with the mail isn't the fraud issue so much as just the logistics of it, right?

02:11:21.000 And that delay.

02:11:25.000 And also the potential to have a lot of ballots just...

02:11:32.000 I'm just worried about the chaos.

02:11:35.000 I'm worried about the civil unrest.

02:11:37.000 I really think that could be the big one.

02:11:41.000 I think if Congress would do its job, they would just say, you know what?

02:11:45.000 The elections are coming.

02:11:46.000 They're going to be right on time.

02:11:48.000 And you're going to go to your voting polling places and we're going to put in place special times for elderly citizens to vote if they want to have a super safe environment.

02:11:57.000 They can only vote just like you do at Costco.

02:12:00.000 Costco in our area had like 7 to 9 a.m.

02:12:03.000 was only for people over 60, right?

02:12:06.000 Fine. 1.00

02:12:07.000 If Costco can do that shit, I'm pretty sure we could do that with voting booths. 1.00

02:12:11.000 Yeah, how hard would that be? 1.00

02:12:13.000 Just make it happen.

02:12:14.000 But again, it's...

02:12:15.000 Do temperature checks, socially distance everybody, everybody wears a mask, do it right, give it plenty of time, set up enough booths.

02:12:23.000 And if you want to do it over a two-day period, fine.

02:12:25.000 Why not?

02:12:26.000 But at least you're establishing protocols that are...

02:12:32.000 Yeah, I don't know.

02:12:33.000 I worry about the chaos.

02:12:34.000 I mean, if you're gonna let people vote by mail in September, how about let them show up at the polls that early as well?

02:12:42.000 So you really could socially distance everybody.

02:12:44.000 You really could absolutely ensure that everybody's safe.

02:12:47.000 Yeah, just spread it out.

02:12:48.000 Spread it out.

02:12:49.000 Over a designated period of time.

02:12:51.000 We have five business days.

02:12:52.000 And you'd have it like open scoring like a boxing match. 0.99

02:12:55.000 It would be fucking tremendous. 0.94

02:12:57.000 As you roll up on the voting booth, you got the numbers right up there. 0.99

02:13:01.000 So it's like a Jerry Lewis telethon.

02:13:02.000 I'm going to go in here and fix this. 1.00

02:13:04.000 Goddamn hippies, you're going to elect that Biden. 1.00

02:13:06.000 He can't even talk. 1.00

02:13:09.000 Damn it. 1.00

02:13:10.000 Trump's a dictator. 1.00

02:13:11.000 He's a mouthpiece of the Marxists. 0.99

02:13:13.000 Trump's a dictator.

02:13:14.000 He's not going to leave the White House if he loses.

02:13:16.000 Do you understand that we're going to have civil war?

02:13:19.000 That man won't leave. 0.99

02:13:20.000 He's a tyrant. 0.98

02:13:21.000 Yeah. 0.88

02:13:22.000 I just wish there was somebody I could get behind.

02:13:24.000 I wish there was somebody that just made sense.

02:13:26.000 Somebody just like that stood out and just like, that's our guy or girl.

02:13:31.000 Yeah.

02:13:31.000 That's the person.

02:13:32.000 Condoleezza Rice and Nikki Haley.

02:13:34.000 I would like to see that team.

02:13:36.000 I mean, for the Republicans, I know that on the Dems' side, they go, ah, no, they wouldn't.

02:13:41.000 But that would have been a good team.

02:13:42.000 Well, if Trump does lose, or if he makes it to 2024, that's going to be real weird, because who is next in line there?

02:13:53.000 I've been telling Dan Crenshaw he needs to run, but he's a young fellow.

02:13:56.000 He's got plenty of time.

02:13:58.000 Yeah.

02:13:59.000 Who knows?

02:14:00.000 He's a very reasonable Republican, though.

02:14:02.000 Yeah.

02:14:03.000 I mean, and that's, again, that's...

02:14:05.000 Pence is waiting on a sign from Jesus.

02:14:07.000 Yeah.

02:14:08.000 But he would be the, you know, if Trump wins, you know, he would be the...

02:14:14.000 Yeah.

02:14:14.000 Yeah, the next guy, theoretically, in line.

02:14:17.000 If he wants it.

02:14:19.000 I mean, some guys don't want it, right?

02:14:21.000 Like Al Gore?

02:14:22.000 Yeah.

02:14:23.000 Didn't Al Gore want it?

02:14:24.000 Oh, he did once, that's right.

02:14:25.000 He did kind of want it.

02:14:26.000 He wanted it then, yeah.

02:14:29.000 I don't know.

02:14:31.000 I just think if we...

02:14:35.000 We're not going to walk the dog back, right?

02:14:37.000 So it's not like... 0.97

02:14:37.000 I keep talking about centrists and moderates in both parties, and that's just not going to fucking happen. 0.97

02:14:42.000 So we have what we have. 0.93

02:14:44.000 We're not going to get a third party that's going to be legitimate.

02:14:48.000 And so what can we do?

02:14:49.000 What sort of things could be done that could change the dynamic or at least get us...

02:14:56.000 More likely to have centrist candidates willing to work with each other.

02:15:00.000 And I keep going back to the same things, which are term limits and campaign finance reform.

02:15:04.000 But then I think, well, that's just never going to happen because it's not in their self-interest.

02:15:10.000 Aliens.

02:15:11.000 Aliens.

02:15:11.000 I think you're right.

02:15:12.000 I think you're right.

02:15:13.000 That's what we need.

02:15:14.000 In a few months' time, when they come out and go, it's not just aircraft that we've recovered.

02:15:18.000 We need a wake-up call.

02:15:19.000 The actual aliens.

02:15:21.000 You know, it's interesting.

02:15:22.000 The beginning of the pandemic, I was really hopeful.

02:15:24.000 One of the reasons why I was really hopeful is because people seemed nicer.

02:15:27.000 It was like post-9-11 when everybody was concerned and they just felt like there was more humanity in the air.

02:15:34.000 And I felt like that at the beginning of the pandemic.

02:15:36.000 People were nicer.

02:15:37.000 They were more polite.

02:15:38.000 They were feeling fear and they realized, hey, you know what's really important?

02:15:43.000 Health and family and your loved ones and people you care about.

02:15:47.000 That's what's really important.

02:15:48.000 So we're all going to lock down and we're going to stay at home.

02:15:51.000 Me and my family, we didn't go anywhere, man.

02:15:53.000 We just played games and we watched movies every night.

02:15:57.000 In a lot of ways, it was a bonding experience.

02:16:00.000 We had a lot of good times together.

02:16:02.000 We cooked all our meals at home because we couldn't go out to dinner.

02:16:05.000 We just stayed at home and played.

02:16:08.000 And we're very fortunate that we have a yard and we have a dog and we want swimming.

02:16:13.000 It wasn't that bad.

02:16:15.000 It was a time to be thankful.

02:16:18.000 And I felt like that for my neighbors too.

02:16:22.000 We were all in that together.

02:16:25.000 Yeah, no, I agree.

02:16:26.000 That only lasts for a short period of time.

02:16:30.000 You know what it's like?

02:16:31.000 I always equate it to a power outage in a community.

02:16:37.000 Everybody's kind of pulling together.

02:16:39.000 It's sort of like you're camping.

02:16:40.000 For a few hours.

02:16:41.000 Yeah, for a few hours.

02:16:42.000 And then everybody's down at Home Depot fighting over the last generator.

02:16:46.000 And everybody's worried about toilet paper and bullets.

02:16:48.000 Toilet paper. 0.99

02:16:49.000 That was a weird fucking thing. 1.00

02:16:50.000 The weirdest shit. 1.00

02:16:51.000 My friend Duncan had... 1.00

02:16:52.000 Was it?

02:16:52.000 No, Tom Green.

02:16:53.000 Tom Green had a really good point.

02:16:55.000 He's like, I think what happens is toilet paper takes up a large amount of space on the shelf.

02:17:01.000 So when toilet paper starts going away, people see that empty space and they start panicking like, oh my god, I need toilet paper.

02:17:08.000 Because if you have like a thousand people trying to get toilet paper in a supermarket, you're not going to...

02:17:13.000 It doesn't work.

02:17:14.000 No.

02:17:14.000 No, I was stunned.

02:17:16.000 I didn't see that coming.

02:17:18.000 No, me neither.

02:17:19.000 You know, we tend to have a pretty good stocked pantry and, you know, the silo's full, but...

02:17:26.000 You have a silo? 1.00

02:17:27.000 No, I just said that shit. 1.00

02:17:30.000 Is it right next to your bunker? 1.00

02:17:31.000 It is.

02:17:32.000 It is.

02:17:34.000 Go out there and get some corn.

02:17:36.000 But yeah, I couldn't believe it.

02:17:38.000 We walked into the local Albertsons and shelves are bare.

02:17:43.000 No toilet paper.

02:17:44.000 Weird. 0.99

02:17:44.000 I thought, what the fuck's up with people? 0.99

02:17:46.000 Just buy what you need. 0.99

02:17:48.000 And I never thought we'd have a run on paper goods.

02:17:52.000 But...

02:17:53.000 And so it didn't take very long, but I agree with that.

02:17:55.000 Initial period of time, you know, we were worried about our elderly neighbors.

02:17:59.000 You know, can we get them anything?

02:18:00.000 Are you worried about your friends?

02:18:02.000 Can you help them out in some way?

02:18:04.000 And yeah, it was, you know, I feel the same way.

02:18:06.000 We were very fortunate in that we could stay comfortably at home and hang out with the boys.

02:18:11.000 And then our three little dudes, man, you know, after a couple of days, you're thinking, okay, I got to get outside.

02:18:19.000 Yeah.

02:18:20.000 I can't hang out of here anymore.

02:18:23.000 I had a lot of friends change their opinion on the Second Amendment.

02:18:28.000 Ooh, they were coming to me.

02:18:30.000 I had guys beating around the bush.

02:18:32.000 So what do you have to do to get a gun?

02:18:35.000 Oh, okay.

02:18:36.000 I have a real good friend.

02:18:38.000 And his wife was like, you are never having a gun.

02:18:41.000 We're never having a gun in this house.

02:18:43.000 The moment the pandemic hit, you have to get a gun.

02:18:46.000 We need a gun.

02:18:46.000 She was immediate.

02:18:47.000 We need a gun.

02:18:48.000 And he was laughing.

02:18:49.000 He's like, she told me to go get a gun.

02:18:52.000 And we're on the phone howling.

02:18:53.000 Go get one.

02:18:54.000 She said, go get a gun. 1.00

02:18:55.000 I'm like, that is so fucking funny. 0.99

02:18:57.000 Go to Piggly Wiggly or wherever you get your guns. 0.98

02:19:00.000 She's a good person.

02:19:01.000 It's not that she's a bad person.

02:19:03.000 Her idea was that guns are for bad people and you have a gun in the house, you're more likely to shoot each other and you don't need that in your life. 0.82

02:19:12.000 And I think a lot of those friends that I have who have wives like that, they look at me like I'm a caveman. 0.96

02:19:19.000 Like, oh, this dickhead, he likes to shoot elk with a bow and arrow, and he's always shooting guns, and he says he's a liberal, but I don't even believe him. 0.98

02:19:28.000 And I'm like, look... 0.99

02:19:29.000 This is the same reason why I know how to fight. 0.98

02:19:32.000 Self-defense is fucking important. 0.99

02:19:34.000 Like, if some shit goes down, how many goddamn videos have you seen where two people are in a fight and neither one of them knows how to fight at all? 1.00

02:19:40.000 Oh my god, it's a schoolyard slap fight. 1.00

02:19:42.000 It's terrible.

02:19:43.000 I don't want to be that guy.

02:19:45.000 No, and I work with my boys to tell them the same thing.

02:19:47.000 I said, look, this is what we have.

02:19:48.000 And so we spend a fair amount of time on it.

02:19:50.000 And I'm not creating bullies.

02:19:52.000 I'm creating guys that can defend themselves, their brothers, and their friends, right?

02:19:56.000 And if you see that and you need to take a stand, then you need to know what the hell you're going to do.

02:20:01.000 Otherwise, you're going to get smashed in the face and you're not going to like it. 0.95

02:20:03.000 My kids are allowed to hit me, not my 23-year-old. 1.00

02:20:07.000 She hits fucking hard. 1.00

02:20:08.000 She can hit hard. 1.00

02:20:10.000 She's really powerful. 0.67

02:20:11.000 But my 10-year-old, my 10-year-old leg kicks me at least once a day. 0.99

02:20:16.000 I taught her the spot to hit, and she fucking digs in with the shin. 1.00

02:20:21.000 Oh my gosh, she hurts me. 1.00

02:20:23.000 A little 10-year-old girl.

02:20:25.000 Well, they're at their leverage at that height, you know?

02:20:28.000 Yeah.

02:20:29.000 Well, she knows how to do it, too.

02:20:30.000 She's been doing it since she was...

02:20:31.000 I mean, I enrolled her in martial arts when she was five years old.

02:20:34.000 Okay.

02:20:35.000 So here she is at 10. She knows how to kick. 1.00

02:20:37.000 Yeah.

02:20:37.000 So she'll, like, put her dukes up, like, go ahead, go ahead, get in there.

02:20:41.000 And she slams! 1.00

02:20:42.000 She slams that shit in there. 1.00

02:20:43.000 It is terrifying how hard a 10-year-old can kick you in your leg. 1.00

02:20:48.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:20:48.000 It fucking hurts, man. 1.00

02:20:49.000 My problem is, you know, they'll... 0.99

02:20:52.000 They lay in wait, right? 0.96

02:20:55.000 Muggsy punched me in the junk one time, dropped me to my knees. 1.00

02:20:58.000 I shit you not. 1.00

02:20:59.000 I wasn't even expecting it. 1.00

02:21:01.000 I turned around, he came around a corner, he caught me right in the junk.

02:21:05.000 I was on my knees gasping, as you do, right?

02:21:09.000 It's happened a few times, and it never feels any different.

02:21:13.000 And he sat there, or he didn't sit there, he stood there and he laughed maniacally, and then he wandered off.

02:21:17.000 And I thought, good God.

02:21:19.000 But it was a hell of a shot.

02:21:20.000 It's not a good spot to get hit.

02:21:22.000 When I was younger, I was convinced that I was sterile.

02:21:25.000 I was like, there's no way I could be having kids. 0.99

02:21:28.000 I've been kicked in the balls, I don't know, a hundred times? 1.00

02:21:33.000 Like, no bullshit by grown men. 1.00

02:21:36.000 I've been kicked in the balls a hundred times. 1.00

02:21:38.000 I'm like, there's no way my balls work. 1.00

02:21:40.000 Those fucking batter things. 1.00

02:21:43.000 Those poor nuggets. 1.00

02:21:44.000 I should have known, though.

02:21:45.000 I have muscles.

02:21:46.000 My testosterone works. 0.99

02:21:48.000 My balls probably work, too. 0.99

02:21:50.000 Yeah, you know. 1.00

02:21:51.000 I just assumed they were just a fucking bomb shelter. 0.99

02:21:56.000 But I've had people say the same thing. 0.99

02:21:58.000 It's like, what would you recommend for home defense?

02:22:02.000 And it is, and it's been a remarkable increase in the past three to four months.

02:22:06.000 Isn't it nutty?

02:22:07.000 Like 40% increase or something crazy like that?

02:22:09.000 Yeah.

02:22:10.000 I mean, and it makes...

02:22:11.000 To me, it makes sense.

02:22:12.000 I mean...

02:22:13.000 They realize.

02:22:14.000 Yeah.

02:22:14.000 I mean, why wouldn't you?

02:22:15.000 I mean, you know, home defense.

02:22:17.000 It's a pretty basic thing.

02:22:20.000 But it is surprising.

02:22:22.000 I do have friends who, same way, who...

02:22:25.000 Would like to purchase something for that purpose, but their spouses are like, no, absolutely not.

02:22:32.000 Even still, even still.

02:22:34.000 Find a new spouse.

02:22:35.000 Yeah.

02:22:35.000 Because if your life's dependent on it and saving your family's life and you realize at that moment that you were wrong, you could get a gun safe, okay?

02:22:43.000 It's not hard to keep everything safe.

02:22:46.000 You just have to be diligent.

02:22:47.000 You be intelligent.

02:22:49.000 You do the right thing.

02:22:51.000 You keep them locked up.

02:22:53.000 It's not that hard, folks.

02:22:54.000 It's really not, but it does come down to, again, the problem is always the people that buy Have no education, and then don't train.

02:23:04.000 Exactly.

02:23:05.000 And those are the people that are dangerous, right?

02:23:06.000 And they're dangerous to themselves, they're dangerous to their kids.

02:23:09.000 And it's hard to train.

02:23:10.000 I mean, it's hard to be...

02:23:11.000 Depending on where you're at.

02:23:12.000 The thing is, like, you know, some places have basic firearm safety that you have to pass. 0.95

02:23:17.000 I mean, I think I had a pass, like, I fell on a fucking, like, multiple choice. 0.94

02:23:23.000 It's easy, right? 0.95

02:23:24.000 But they...

02:23:25.000 Sorry.

02:23:26.000 Sorry.

02:23:26.000 It's crazy.

02:23:27.000 Multiple choice?

02:23:28.000 Yes, yes. 0.98

02:23:29.000 No bullshit. 0.96

02:23:30.000 But what they don't do is... 0.97

02:23:32.000 You don't have to show physical proficiency.

02:23:34.000 There's places that you have to go if you want to bow hunt, okay?

02:23:37.000 You have to be able to hit...

02:23:39.000 I think it's like a paper plate-sized target...

02:23:43.000 You have to be able to hit X amount of arrows at, I think it's 30 yards or something like that, in order for them to pass you for a bow.

02:23:50.000 But some places not.

02:23:52.000 It's not consistent.

02:23:53.000 But with handguns and guns, you could just go buy one.

02:23:56.000 If you pass that test, no one...

02:23:59.000 You have to know like on paper what you're not supposed to do, but in terms of like showing any sort of proficiency or...

02:24:06.000 I mean, how many people have guns and they've never even shot them?

02:24:09.000 They don't know which way is safe.

02:24:10.000 No, I know.

02:24:11.000 And that's the worst thing you can do.

02:24:12.000 So if you're going to do that, then don't get one.

02:24:14.000 I'm a big believer in that.

02:24:15.000 Just don't buy one unless you're going to practice.

02:24:18.000 And you're going to constantly work that mechanism.

02:24:21.000 But, you know, I've taken a handful of concealed carry courses.

02:24:26.000 In the past, and a couple of times, just out of curiosity to see what they're doing.

02:24:31.000 And the training is, or the courses are...

02:24:36.000 Not that good.

02:24:37.000 And they spend a fair amount of time on the legal issues, right?

02:24:41.000 Because that's a big... 1.00

02:24:42.000 Carrying a weapon is a pain in the ass, right? 1.00

02:24:47.000 It's a real pain in the ass. 0.99

02:24:48.000 And it's fraught with potential problems. 0.99

02:24:50.000 And you see difficulties because people don't understand the ramifications of it.

02:24:55.000 They don't understand that it's...

02:24:56.000 You know, it's not fun.

02:24:58.000 It's a big responsibility.

02:25:02.000 It's huge.

02:25:03.000 But you're right.

02:25:04.000 Typical training, depending on where you're at in certain places, it's very difficult to go out regularly, get to the range once a week, which is what you should be doing.

02:25:13.000 Yeah.

02:25:14.000 Yeah, you really should.

02:25:15.000 I mean, when I take a week off and I go to the range, I feel a little rusty.

02:25:19.000 Like my first few shots, I feel a little rusty.

02:25:21.000 Yeah.

02:25:21.000 It's muscle memory, but it deteriorates, unlike some things, right?

02:25:26.000 It deteriorates quicker for a variety of reasons, but I can't emphasize it enough.

02:25:32.000 So all those people that have rushed out in the past four months to buy weapons, you better be exercising that thing.

02:25:38.000 Yeah, please find a place where you can go, please, and learn.

02:25:42.000 And even if you don't shoot, and you make sure you understand how to tell if there's not a round in the chamber, understand dry firing, even if you're just going to dry fire.

02:25:54.000 I have friends that are competitive shooters that if they don't shoot every day, they dry fire for 30 minutes every day.

02:25:59.000 They practice.

02:26:00.000 Yeah.

02:26:01.000 And it's also, you know, understanding the mechanism, right?

02:26:04.000 Understanding the machine.

02:26:05.000 And so spend time, right?

02:26:08.000 Take it apart.

02:26:09.000 Put it together.

02:26:09.000 Take it apart.

02:26:10.000 Put it together.

02:26:10.000 Just keep doing that.

02:26:11.000 Cleaning it.

02:26:12.000 All those things help you become more aware.

02:26:15.000 And it also builds a sense of responsibility, right?

02:26:19.000 It makes you understand the importance of handling it properly and storing it properly.

02:26:26.000 So, yeah, we sound like a...

02:26:28.000 Like a gun store.

02:26:29.000 A public announcement, yeah.

02:26:30.000 Like a gun store.

02:26:31.000 I want to talk to you about remote viewing.

02:26:34.000 Ah.

02:26:36.000 Men who stare at goats.

02:26:38.000 Yeah.

02:26:39.000 Are you going to do an episode of that?

02:26:42.000 What's the television show again?

02:26:44.000 Oh, thank you for asking.

02:26:46.000 It's Black Files Declassified.

02:26:47.000 I'm not sure if we've talked about it.

02:26:48.000 It's on the Discovery Science Channel?

02:26:50.000 Science Channel, yeah.

02:26:51.000 And we've had an order for a second season.

02:26:55.000 Oh, congratulations.

02:26:55.000 Yeah, thank you.

02:26:56.000 So we'll be doing at least eight new episodes here.

02:27:01.000 Are you going to do one on that?

02:27:02.000 Yeah.

02:27:02.000 On remote viewing?

02:27:04.000 That's the plan.

02:27:05.000 We're putting together the show map.

02:27:07.000 You know, it falls in the category of...

02:27:13.000 Once again, kind of like what we talked about with MKUltra, the idea being initially it was a defensive concern over what are our enemies doing, right?

02:27:24.000 And so the concepts behind remote viewing, much like the concepts behind understanding behavioral conditioning or false memories, creating new memories, It started because we were concerned about what the enemy was up to,

02:27:43.000 and the enemy being the Soviets in the old days and the Chinese.

02:27:47.000 So, what do I think about it?

02:27:49.000 Eh.

02:27:51.000 I'm a cynic, I guess is the best way to put it.

02:27:54.000 Yeah.

02:27:55.000 I'm not necessarily buying the idea of remote viewing of sort of, however you want to refer to it, mind control.

02:28:06.000 I understand why there was interest.

02:28:09.000 I understand why there were programs designed to try to figure this out.

02:28:12.000 Who's the granddaddy of that stuff?

02:28:14.000 There's this one guy who's famous.

02:28:15.000 What's his name?

02:28:21.000 I remember him from the Art Bell Show.

02:28:23.000 I got to meet him.

02:28:26.000 Jamie will get it before us.

02:28:27.000 You know what?

02:28:29.000 I'll bet the agency made me forget that.

02:28:30.000 He's a little fella.

02:28:33.000 I was about to recall and then suddenly I couldn't.

02:28:37.000 You got him?

02:28:39.000 Oh, that's not him.

02:28:41.000 Ed Dames, that's him.

02:28:43.000 Ego Swan is the guy who invented it though?

02:28:45.000 Oh, he's just a different guy?

02:28:47.000 So Ed Dames is the guy that I met.

02:28:50.000 Yeah, I met him.

02:28:51.000 You met him?

02:28:51.000 Yeah.

02:28:52.000 See if he's still alive because I'm going to talk shit about him if he's not. 0.98

02:28:57.000 Is he? 0.98

02:28:58.000 Nice guy.

02:28:59.000 Or at least find out what kind of condition he's in before.

02:29:00.000 He's a very nice guy.

02:29:03.000 We'll leave it at that.

02:29:06.000 Yeah.

02:29:07.000 I didn't believe it.

02:29:09.000 I didn't buy it.

02:29:09.000 But he was telling me that they actually got some actionable data from his remote viewing sessions that they used.

02:29:17.000 I believe they used for Bin Laden, he was saying.

02:29:21.000 I'm like, man.

02:29:22.000 Again, look, do I think that there's certain things you can do to train your mind to perform better?

02:29:28.000 I think yes.

02:29:29.000 Oh, for sure.

02:29:29.000 Yeah, sure.

02:29:30.000 Right. 1.00

02:29:30.000 But that kind of shit? 1.00

02:29:31.000 No. 1.00

02:29:32.000 No.

02:29:33.000 So, yeah, I think that's...

02:29:35.000 Look, they had a program.

02:29:36.000 The military had a program for quite some time called Super Soldier.

02:29:40.000 And it looked at a variety of things, right?

02:29:42.000 In concert with some various intel community agencies.

02:29:45.000 And it looked at a variety of things, including...

02:29:50.000 The issue of remote viewing, but mostly what they were looking at is how do you enhance performance out in the field?

02:29:55.000 How do you make a soldier stronger, smarter, safer, faster, all these things?

02:30:00.000 And ultimately, where they settled was essentially technology, right?

02:30:05.000 I mean, this issue of...

02:30:07.000 You know, they ended up on things like the X suit and other things that can enhance… Encoskeletons?

02:30:15.000 Yeah, exactly. 0.96

02:30:16.000 It can enhance your abilities to exist and to, you know, to hump shit out in the field. 0.93

02:30:23.000 But also, you know… When you say hump, you mean carry things. 0.98

02:30:26.000 Carry stuff.

02:30:26.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:30:28.000 I've got to be really clear.

02:30:29.000 That's a good point.

02:30:30.000 Listen to the show you're on. 0.95

02:30:31.000 Sitting in the safe house in San Francisco in the 60s watching some hooker hump some john on LSD. Good God. 0.97

02:30:39.000 Think about how weird that must have been.

02:30:40.000 So weird.

02:30:41.000 Bunch of freaks.

02:30:42.000 And you can kind of do whatever you wanted because you're the government.

02:30:44.000 You've got a green light to do this.

02:30:46.000 Well, guys like Sidney Gottlieb, who was the head of that operation, and guys like George White knows.

02:30:51.000 I'm sure they couched what they were doing because they knew. 0.81

02:30:54.000 Once it veered off into those whole unwitting testing and all the rest of the shit they were doing, you know that they knew. 0.95

02:30:59.000 They were aware. 0.94

02:31:00.000 Sidney Gottlieb was a very complex individual, right?

02:31:03.000 But he knew what he was doing.

02:31:05.000 But that ability to couch it in terms of...

02:31:08.000 You know, we're fighting an existential threat, so we're doing this for national security.

02:31:12.000 I mean, I think it can kind of make it easier for a person to overlook sort of the questions, the ethical questions, because you're doing it for patriotic reasons, but you've got nukes pointed at you from the other side, and you legitimately feel like, okay, we're going to do this.

02:31:27.000 Anyway, I'm not sure where I was going with that.

02:31:29.000 But yeah, the idea of super soldier, fascinating stuff. 0.97

02:31:34.000 How far have they gotten with the exoskeleton shit? 0.94

02:31:36.000 Well, I mean, they've got several prototypes, a handful of companies out there. 0.99

02:31:42.000 Russians have deployed.

02:31:43.000 What do they use for a power source?

02:31:46.000 Well, see, that's part of the problem.

02:31:48.000 Batteries, and battery technology being what it is, that's still a problem.

02:31:51.000 And that's heavy.

02:31:52.000 Yeah, and that's it.

02:31:53.000 And whoever comes up with the better battery always wins, right?

02:31:56.000 And so what they've found so far, anyways, and they've got some prototypes that don't rely on batteries at all, right?

02:32:03.000 That are just use of essentially spring technology.

02:32:08.000 It's taking pressure off of the key joints, allowing you to lift heavier.

02:32:12.000 And that's really where these things have come into play so far. 0.98

02:32:15.000 You're not seeing super soldiers out in the combat, fighting each other and running at high speeds and carrying loads of shit.

02:32:24.000 You're seeing it in fairly pedestrian ways so far in logistics, right? 0.71

02:32:28.000 And the guys that are loading trucks, right?

02:32:32.000 And they're doing that in 120-degree heat and need some help, right?

02:32:36.000 So the exoskeletons have been very successful in that regard.

02:32:41.000 Other technology though, information and how information flows to the warfighter, right?

02:32:48.000 So sort of the Google Glass concept and what they're doing with that.

02:32:53.000 Augmented reality.

02:32:54.000 Augmented reality, but the ability to feed information to the soldier, you know, in real time.

02:33:03.000 And then also to take information from the soldier in terms of their biofeedback and blood pressure, heart rate, that sort of thing.

02:33:12.000 That's all very, very important stuff.

02:33:14.000 The problem is sometimes you can, as you know, you can overload that individual, right? 0.81

02:33:18.000 When shit hits the fan and everything starts to shut down, you don't necessarily want a lot more information coming in sometimes, right? 0.87

02:33:25.000 Because you're focusing, right? 0.97

02:33:27.000 And so all this data, sometimes that's not particularly helpful.

02:33:32.000 But the ability to do it in the proper situation is very important.

02:33:36.000 So there's a lot of research still going into that.

02:33:39.000 It's just that the early days of remote viewing and other ways of creating a different type of warfighter, it's more a pedestrian effort right now.

02:33:52.000 Again, Russians are engaged in the same thing. 0.96

02:33:55.000 Chinese are engaged in the same thing. 0.86

02:33:57.000 Just like we're all engaged in the race for hypersonic...

02:34:02.000 Unmanned vehicles and weapons.

02:34:03.000 I'm worried about genetic manipulation, because I'm worried that we're not going to do it, but they're going to do it first.

02:34:10.000 And that, like, the idea of a super soldier, like using CRISPR or some of these gene editing tools, that that actually could be real.

02:34:17.000 I mean, like, in a place like China, where you don't get to decide what you do for a living, they really could recruit a large number of people and sort of develop soldiers in that regard.

02:34:30.000 Yeah, and I don't think that's in the realm of the impossible, and I don't think it's not being done.

02:34:37.000 I'm sure they're doing it.

02:34:38.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:34:39.000 I'm thinking like 50 years from now.

02:34:41.000 When we're like, is it ethical?

02:34:43.000 Should we do this?

02:34:44.000 And you have a bunch of senators debating it. 0.97

02:34:46.000 Meanwhile, in China, they're fucking full steam ahead. 0.99

02:34:50.000 Yeah, and I think, and here's where it's interesting is because, you know, again, people listening or there'll be some folks listening going, well, you know, come on, fucking ethical. 0.98

02:34:58.000 Of course the U.S. government's doing it. 0.80

02:35:00.000 But we are fundamentally different.

02:35:03.000 Yes, MKUltra, since we were talking about it, yeah, that was a horrendous, you know, situation.

02:35:08.000 Violation of rights.

02:35:09.000 Right.

02:35:09.000 Went right off the rails.

02:35:11.000 Shouldn't have happened.

02:35:12.000 Was exposed, right?

02:35:13.000 Which is...

02:35:15.000 All by itself, an indication of how we're different, right, from the Russians or from the Chinese. 0.79

02:35:23.000 You think the Chinese are going to hold some, you know, in their committee hearings, you know, they're going to call to the carpet the PLA intel operators and say, well, what have you been doing?

02:35:34.000 Oh, my God, this is terrible.

02:35:35.000 Or the Russians are going to do that? 0.71

02:35:36.000 Putin's going to call the FSB and throw them out there in a committee hearing? 1.00

02:35:42.000 No, bullshit. 0.99

02:35:42.000 So when people... 0.99

02:35:43.000 Want to talk about how the US is engaging?

02:35:46.000 Well, okay, yeah, we've been off the rails at times.

02:35:48.000 We do tend to try to self-correct whichever administration's in charge.

02:35:52.000 But more importantly, we do have, and I hope we maintain it, we have had a track record of transparency.

02:36:02.000 Again, compared to our, is it 100% transparent?

02:36:06.000 No.

02:36:06.000 Should it be?

02:36:07.000 No.

02:36:09.000 Compared to those others, yeah, we do a pretty good job.

02:36:13.000 Yeah, I would agree.

02:36:16.000 So this remote viewing, Did they ever get anything out of it?

02:36:20.000 Was there any data?

02:36:22.000 Was there ever anyone who was really good at it or better at it?

02:36:27.000 Was there anything to it?

02:36:28.000 No.

02:36:29.000 So how is it still a subject?

02:36:31.000 It captures the imagination.

02:36:33.000 I mean, it's like, how is Manson still a subject?

02:36:36.000 Well, he's fascinating, and it was a fascinating period of time.

02:36:39.000 Remote viewing is, I think it's fascinating.

02:36:42.000 Again, it's like, So it's like psychics. 0.98

02:36:44.000 They wanted to find, like, don't police still actually use psychics for certain, like, they try to find bodies and shit? 0.95

02:36:51.000 Is that just in mystery theater or PBS or something? 0.96

02:36:57.000 I don't know.

02:36:57.000 You always hear about it.

02:36:58.000 I guess they do.

02:36:59.000 Like, the police bring in psychics?

02:37:00.000 Maybe.

02:37:00.000 Do they really?

02:37:01.000 I don't know.

02:37:02.000 A very good friend of mine who was a homicide detective in the UK's Met Police, he works with me now in my business, Diligence, Diligence USA, for all your information and security needs.

02:37:18.000 He never talked about a psychic ever being brought in, and he handled a lot of cases.

02:37:24.000 It's always on those TV shows.

02:37:25.000 Yeah, when I had asked him about that, I guess the point of bringing it up is I asked him, he said, no.

02:37:31.000 Is that what he said?

02:37:32.000 Yeah, no, no.

02:37:34.000 I don't believe so.

02:37:36.000 But, yeah, nothing really – I mean, again, maybe there's a file.

02:37:41.000 Sitting in the retired records office of the agency, you know, and we're never going to see it.

02:37:46.000 But as far as I've seen, it was never any record of success from it.

02:37:54.000 But I get why it's of interest and why people are fascinated by it.

02:37:59.000 That makes sense, yeah.

02:38:00.000 I mean, it's like everything else.

02:38:02.000 I guess the government had to find out whether or not MKUltra, like when they were doing that, like, let's see.

02:38:09.000 There's only one way to find out.

02:38:11.000 If you don't believe in it at all, but it turns out to be true, and there are a few people that have developed techniques.

02:38:17.000 Look, hypnosis is real.

02:38:18.000 Hypnosis is weird. 1.00

02:38:20.000 Maybe there's something to this shit. 0.99

02:38:22.000 Maybe if you just follow the right techniques and get yourself in the right mindset, you have access to information that's not available any other way. 0.99

02:38:28.000 And hypnosis, again, was part of the MKUltra sub-projects, right?

02:38:32.000 And it's because there was concern that the enemy had this research or that they were making headway.

02:38:40.000 And so, again, a lot of things that develop initially, it's because it's a defensive response, because we learn something about what some hostile entity is doing.

02:38:50.000 And then you have to move immediately to, okay, well, do we need this for offensive purposes?

02:38:55.000 Because if they're doing it, Do we need to have that capability?

02:38:58.000 And I'd always argue, certainly when you go into the realm of cyber warfare, yeah, you better have that capability, you know, both sides.

02:39:06.000 Well, that's where things like that neural link technology is very interesting, because if somehow or another you really can communicate with someone who's not there without using any words, Which is what Elon said to me.

02:39:18.000 He goes, you're going to be able to talk without using words.

02:39:20.000 Well, if you can do that at a distance, like if you can literally guide someone, like say if you got someone who's on a mission in Afghanistan, and you are watching on a satellite, and you can guide them without giving them any noise, without saying anything to them.

02:39:35.000 And you can give them all the data, whether it's through augmented reality, like glasses or something like that.

02:39:40.000 Save a lot of lives and get a lot of jobs done.

02:39:43.000 Oh, no, and they're doing that.

02:39:44.000 I mean, you know, Aberdeen and other areas, I mean, they're working on some pretty amazing technology, right?

02:39:52.000 And so that ability to feed a lot of data, like if you're about to go through a door, right?

02:39:57.000 You rock up on some target, you know, and you need to know what the hell is going on, and you've got that ability to, you know...

02:40:03.000 Make that happen, that's tremendous, right?

02:40:06.000 It makes for a safer, smarter, better soldier out there.

02:40:10.000 And that's an important thing, right?

02:40:13.000 Because that actually saves lives, like you said.

02:40:15.000 So that is happening.

02:40:18.000 It's the idea of communicating without... 1.00

02:40:23.000 It's the woo-woo shit. 0.99

02:40:24.000 Yeah, that's the part that may be further down the road than Elon Musk thinks, you know. 0.99

02:40:30.000 Did you have an open mind when you went into this remote viewing discussion, sort of?

02:40:35.000 A little crack in the door?

02:40:38.000 Yeah, I did.

02:40:39.000 I think you have to.

02:40:40.000 Look, nothing's 100%.

02:40:42.000 It's like you were saying earlier.

02:40:43.000 We always want to think we're absolutely right.

02:40:46.000 And I don't ever assume I'm absolutely right on something unless it's 2 plus 2, right?

02:40:50.000 I mean, okay, that's pretty proven.

02:40:53.000 So I think you have to go into anything.

02:40:55.000 And any time you're going to do an investigation, you have to leave the door open a little bit for the unknowns.

02:41:01.000 But you do have to build...

02:41:04.000 What you're doing on something sound.

02:41:07.000 So you can't...

02:41:08.000 You don't want to base your decision-making on just a theory or an allegation or a belief, right?

02:41:17.000 So every investigation needs to be built on something solid.

02:41:20.000 Otherwise, it's just falling apart.

02:41:22.000 And so that's kind of where we...

02:41:25.000 Did I mention Black Files Declassified?

02:41:27.000 Isn't that coming out?

02:41:28.000 That's the second season.

02:41:29.000 Did I say that?

02:41:30.000 When is it?

02:41:30.000 Well, in the pandemic world, we probably won't be able to film until later this year.

02:41:35.000 Yeah, how do you film it?

02:41:36.000 Yeah.

02:41:38.000 Can you just wear masks?

02:41:39.000 Yeah, I'll wear a mask.

02:41:41.000 Yeah.

02:41:41.000 We'll just stand ten feet apart for each other.

02:41:42.000 Every episode I'll wear a different mask, like a full overhead mask.

02:41:45.000 That's a good move.

02:41:46.000 Yeah, it'll be fun.

02:41:47.000 Yeah, we'll figure it out.

02:41:49.000 We'll figure it out. 1.00

02:41:50.000 I mean, shit, this entire town in Los Angeles has been dealing with that bullshit, right? 1.00

02:41:54.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:41:55.000 All these people out of work in production companies and all the independent contractors who don't have jobs because nothing's filming and nobody knows how to film and they don't want to take on the insurance.

02:42:04.000 So it's hit that industry hard.

02:42:07.000 I know everybody's like, oh my God, it's hit the entertainment industry hard.

02:42:10.000 But...

02:42:10.000 I think what a lot of they're doing is quarantining people, testing them and quarantining them, forcing them to stay on set, quarantining them in a hotel they've rented out, things along those lines.

02:42:21.000 I know Tyler Perry has been real successful at doing that, but he's smart.

02:42:25.000 He's got his own studios, he's got his own setup, and he just has everybody locked down at the place where they're filming.

02:42:32.000 Yeah, but I mean, all those people that don't have that option, right? 0.99

02:42:36.000 I mean, they're just like, I know a lot of folks that are, you know, working as, you know, camera operators or sound men or just, you know, anything in the business, and they're just, yeah, they're fucked. 0.92

02:42:45.000 Well, for the longest time, the UFC was the only sports entity that was functioning. 0.96

02:42:50.000 I mean, and we've been doing shows at the UFC for several months now.

02:42:54.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:42:55.000 Which is a good, you know, it lends itself to certain activity, like the NBA now, they can operate in this bubble, right?

02:43:01.000 But baseball, you know, I don't think football is going to happen, but I mean, it's interesting.

02:43:07.000 Everybody was so hopeful.

02:43:08.000 Yeah.

02:43:09.000 And they're like, ah, we'll get it sorted out by then.

02:43:11.000 No, not really.

02:43:13.000 Although my boy Sluggo, he couldn't be happier.

02:43:15.000 He's a basketball freak.

02:43:17.000 And the fact that they're playing, he's super happy.

02:43:20.000 Look, it's nice.

02:43:21.000 Audience or no audience, at least people at home have something to watch.

02:43:24.000 I'm very thankful that the UFC puts on all these fights. 0.97

02:43:27.000 It's given me some interesting shit to watch. 0.96

02:43:30.000 What are you going to miss? 0.99

02:43:31.000 You're moving out of here.

02:43:32.000 What are you going to miss about California? 1.00

02:43:33.000 I ain't going to miss shit. 0.99

02:43:36.000 You haven't practiced that before, have you? 0.99

02:43:38.000 No.

02:43:40.000 I'm an impromptu kind of a guy.

02:43:42.000 I'm going to miss a comedy store.

02:43:43.000 I'm going to miss my friends.

02:43:45.000 There's a lot of restaurants and a lot of people I know out here that are good people.

02:43:50.000 I feel like this place is overwhelming and overcrowded, and I've had enough.

02:43:55.000 I like change.

02:43:56.000 It's exciting.

02:43:57.000 My next move will probably be Montana after that.

02:44:01.000 I'm going to go Texas and then Montana.

02:44:02.000 Yeah, don't come to Idaho.

02:44:03.000 We're full, man.

02:44:04.000 We're full.

02:44:05.000 That's what I hear.

02:44:06.000 Yeah, that's what I hear.

02:44:07.000 Don't tell anybody.

02:44:09.000 I look forward to seeing you in Texas, man.

02:44:11.000 Yeah, come visit me out there.

02:44:12.000 I'll take you around.

02:44:13.000 Get you to some real barbecue.

02:44:15.000 Yeah, Austin's a great town, and all of Texas is interesting.

02:44:19.000 I'm a fan.

02:44:20.000 A lot of good cats, man.

02:44:20.000 I'm excited to go there.

02:44:21.000 Yeah.

02:44:22.000 All right, Mike Baker, thank you very much, sir.

02:44:24.000 Next time I see you, he'll probably be in another state.

02:44:26.000 He'll be in Texas.

02:44:26.000 I'll wear my boots.

02:44:28.000 You got cowboy boots?

02:44:29.000 Are you kidding me?

02:44:30.000 I got like half a dozen pair of cowboy boots.

02:44:32.000 You kidding?

02:44:32.000 Jamie's going to buy some.

02:44:34.000 Yeah.

02:44:34.000 He's excited about it.

02:44:35.000 Look at him.

02:44:36.000 Thanks, man.

02:44:36.000 All right, thank you, brother.

02:44:37.000 Bye, everybody.

02:44:37.000 See you soon.

02:44:40.000 That was great.

02:44:42.000 Thanks, man.

02:44:42.000 Yeah.

02:44:43.000 That was good.

The Joe Rogan Experience - August 04, 2020

Joe Rogan Experience #1519 - Mike Baker

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Transcript