The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1628 - Eric Weinstein

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast!

00:00:03.000 Check it out!

00:00:03.000 The Joe Rogan Experience!

00:00:06.000 Train by day!

00:00:07.000 Joe Rogan Podcast by night!

00:00:08.000 All day!

00:00:22.000 Those are the only ones I know.

00:00:23.000 I don't know another...

00:00:24.000 Sherefinize? 0.99

00:00:25.000 Salute.

00:00:26.000 Lachaim?

00:00:26.000 Mazel Tov, Lachaim, Nostroviev.

00:00:29.000 What's the other one?

00:00:30.000 Skoll.

00:00:31.000 What's Skoll?

00:00:33.000 Skoll, I don't know.

00:00:34.000 Is that Swedish, German, something.

00:00:36.000 Is that a Viking one? 0.93

00:00:37.000 Yeah.

00:00:37.000 Oh.

00:00:38.000 Or...

00:00:39.000 Use your microphone, fella.

00:00:41.000 I don't know how to say it.

00:00:42.000 What is that one?

00:00:43.000 The Irish one. 0.99

00:00:44.000 Oh, I don't know that one.

00:00:45.000 I don't know that either.

00:00:47.000 Jamie's throwing extra ones in there.

00:00:49.000 There we go.

00:00:50.000 What's up, brother?

00:00:50.000 How are you?

00:00:51.000 Well, how are you?

00:00:52.000 You look like a businessman.

00:00:53.000 Is that right?

00:00:54.000 Are you a businessman?

00:00:54.000 I'm trying to be one.

00:00:56.000 I thought you were a professional clubhouse guest.

00:00:58.000 No, no, no.

00:00:58.000 The thing is...

00:01:02.000 It's the only platform that I have more followers on than you because you're only there once, I think.

00:01:06.000 Yeah, one and done.

00:01:07.000 One and done, yeah.

00:01:08.000 It's just like podcasting for people who don't have a podcast.

00:01:11.000 Well, the interesting question is, do you think that it has any ability to figure out a way of killing podcasting?

00:01:19.000 Because that's what they think. 0.99

00:01:20.000 They're crazy. 0.98

00:01:21.000 No, impossible.

00:01:22.000 Because the beautiful thing about podcasting is that you're capturing a conversation, and it's uninterrupted.

00:01:28.000 The thing that happened with your brother should have put the nail in the coffin in that format.

00:01:34.000 Oh, you mean the struggle session?

00:01:35.000 Yes.

00:01:36.000 The fact that someone can come in and kick everyone off that disagrees with them, take over the room, and that they did it just because they decided...

00:01:45.000 What was the reason why they gave her the option to kick everybody out and gave her administrative power or whatever it is? 1.00

00:01:52.000 I think she'd been historically oppressed or something.

00:01:55.000 I guess.

00:01:56.000 I don't know.

00:02:14.000 I did not listen to this, by the way.

00:02:16.000 You shouldn't.

00:02:17.000 It'll infuriate you.

00:02:19.000 He said he's an evolutionary biologist.

00:02:23.000 Yeah, that's enough.

00:02:24.000 And these kids were like, oh, you're into eugenics.

00:02:27.000 You believe in eugenics. 0.99

00:02:28.000 He's like, no, [...

00:02:30.000 And they basically just steamrolled him, called him a racist, and cut him off.

00:02:34.000 It was very infuriating.

00:02:36.000 They didn't want to have a conversation with him.

00:02:38.000 They wanted to belittle him.

00:02:39.000 They wanted him to proclaim that he's anti-racist.

00:02:43.000 I've seen this movie before.

00:02:45.000 Yeah, it's not good.

00:02:47.000 But it's just the fact that that can happen in the platform.

00:02:51.000 It was just...

00:02:53.000 When you're doing something like that, when someone can come in and just kick all the other people out that they don't agree with?

00:02:58.000 Yeah, sure.

00:02:58.000 Like, you can just join in a conversation that's already rolling.

00:03:01.000 Well, of course he could have left.

00:03:02.000 He just doesn't want to back down.

00:03:04.000 He was trying to make sense.

00:03:06.000 He was trying to express himself.

00:03:07.000 He's always trying to make sense.

00:03:08.000 I know.

00:03:09.000 It's a problem.

00:03:10.000 It's a real problem.

00:03:10.000 We've got to fix that.

00:03:12.000 But I mean, the clubhouse thing seems like a fun social thing to do.

00:03:18.000 Like, I enjoyed doing it with Tim Dillon because Tim was in here with me and we were yucking it up and goofing on it.

00:03:24.000 And then your brother jumped in on the conversation and Naval was in the conversation.

00:03:28.000 That's where it gets more interesting, which is the serendipity that's possible.

00:03:32.000 Because normally the logistics of getting us all in one place...

00:03:35.000 Yes.

00:03:36.000 It's difficult, it's expensive, nobody really is up for it because...

00:03:40.000 It's probably not as high quality as a point-to-point conversation, but the serendipity of saying, oh, okay, I saw two people I never thought would be in the same room, and then 12 other people.

00:03:50.000 At first, I think that's exciting, but then the danger of it is that they're going to burn through the novelty effects.

00:03:55.000 You're going to have seen all these people collide.

00:03:58.000 Well, maybe.

00:03:59.000 It's almost like chess moves.

00:04:01.000 Right.

00:04:02.000 Combinatorics are in their favor.

00:04:04.000 You know how the pieces move, but there's an insane number of possibilities that could take place.

00:04:09.000 True, but I do think that there's a weird way in which you're always in danger of setting up too many different ways into the same basic source that's the value.

00:04:19.000 And so you can say, okay, I've got a website, I've got a substack, I've got a podcast, I've got a book.

00:04:25.000 How many ideas do you have?

00:04:26.000 That's kind of the issue.

00:04:27.000 One of the things that I think makes you dominant is that you have an insane breath.

00:04:34.000 And most people are really not that capable of going outside of a few issues.

00:04:39.000 Well, I'm not capable of it either.

00:04:41.000 I'm just curious.

00:04:44.000 I'm not scared of having conversations that are way over my head.

00:04:49.000 I just think the clubhouse thing, they've got to work out what happened.

00:04:55.000 They've got to work that out so that doesn't happen.

00:04:57.000 The flaw is in letting someone come in and then kicking other people out so they can't communicate anymore.

00:05:04.000 You could do that.

00:05:05.000 The moderator privilege there is something that you shouldn't give out like candy because that's what opens it up to...

00:05:11.000 But here's the thing.

00:05:12.000 Why would you want to give out...

00:05:13.000 People are weak.

00:05:15.000 But why does anybody want to be the moderator?

00:05:17.000 That's not good.

00:05:18.000 It's horrible.

00:05:19.000 There's an actual status and caste system of people who need more going on in their lives.

00:05:24.000 Like, I was called up on stage.

00:05:26.000 I was made a moderator.

00:05:27.000 And then you realize that for people whose lives have gone online due to COVID... Meaning has been scarce.

00:05:34.000 And so in a weird way, this is what's proxying for meaning.

00:05:37.000 Because the human mind will just attach meaning to any kind of distinction like that.

00:05:40.000 For a lot of comics, it's replaced performing.

00:05:43.000 So they're not going up at night, but they're going in the clubhouse every night.

00:05:47.000 Lea Lamar, for example, is really active.

00:05:51.000 And what I told her was, pioneer something new.

00:05:54.000 Don't try to do something old.

00:05:56.000 Figure out what this new thing is better at, and be the first.

00:06:00.000 Well, she has a lot of people on that, right?

00:06:02.000 Yeah, a lot.

00:06:03.000 A lot more than she has on other platforms.

00:06:06.000 I think she's doing really well and she's doing a lot of stuff.

00:06:09.000 And what I hope is that she'll pioneer something genuinely new.

00:06:14.000 For example, Radio Drama was dying when I was a kid.

00:06:17.000 There was the CBS Radio Mystery Hour or something.

00:06:19.000 We used to listen to that when we'd drive up to...

00:06:21.000 I used to love those.

00:06:22.000 Yeah.

00:06:23.000 They were cool.

00:06:23.000 Right.

00:06:24.000 That's gone.

00:06:25.000 You know, with a bunch of people acting out voices.

00:06:27.000 E.G. Marshall was the host of those things.

00:06:29.000 And it was like a throwback to Orson Welles and that stuff.

00:06:33.000 Wouldn't it be cool to get some retro thing?

00:06:35.000 Because the idea behind Clubhouse is to take Discord and subtract functionality from it, and that's the product.

00:06:41.000 It's got less functionality than Discord.

00:06:44.000 And that causes you to say, okay, well, I can't text you.

00:06:48.000 How am I going to work around all these constraints?

00:06:50.000 And it's like, you know, a great wine is only supposedly grown when you frustrate the vines.

00:06:55.000 Really?

00:06:56.000 Yeah.

00:06:56.000 That's what I hear.

00:06:58.000 How does that work?

00:06:59.000 How do they frustrate the vines?

00:07:00.000 That if you give the vines perfect soil and climate and all this stuff, they'll produce much fruitier stuff and it won't be perfectly optimized for fermenting into wine.

00:07:12.000 Really?

00:07:13.000 Yeah.

00:07:14.000 Look, there's a lot of BS in wine, so I don't want to say 100%, but this is definitely something you'll hear.

00:07:19.000 Have you seen the documentary Sour Grapes?

00:07:21.000 No.

00:07:21.000 Oh my God.

00:07:22.000 Tell me.

00:07:22.000 You have to watch it.

00:07:24.000 Are you a wine guy?

00:07:25.000 No.

00:07:25.000 I like wine.

00:07:27.000 I actually love wine. 0.99

00:07:28.000 I don't know a fucking damn thing about it. 0.99

00:07:31.000 I just go, that's good. 0.99

00:07:32.000 And I take pictures of it on my phone when I like it, and then I buy that wine later. 0.99

00:07:36.000 I don't know what the fuck's going on. 0.91

00:07:38.000 I'm as clueless- You know that really nobody does? 0.99

00:07:41.000 Almost nobody.

00:07:42.000 That's what the documentary's about.

00:07:43.000 Okay.

00:07:43.000 The documentary's amazing.

00:07:44.000 And it's about this guy who got in with all these real rich wine connoisseurs.

00:07:52.000 Yeah.

00:07:52.000 Including a friend of mine who's in the film.

00:07:55.000 Oh, no.

00:07:55.000 Yes.

00:07:56.000 Yeah.

00:07:57.000 And this guy realized that there is only a limited amount of rare wine, like 1974, blah, blah, blah.

00:08:08.000 Right, right, right.

00:08:08.000 So this dude decides he is going to fake this wine.

00:08:14.000 And so he makes these labels.

00:08:17.000 And apparently this gentleman who's featured in this film, who wound up getting arrested, and he's in jail right now in Colorado.

00:08:24.000 And apparently they're detaining him.

00:08:27.000 They're about to deport him.

00:08:29.000 Because he's about to get out of jail.

00:08:30.000 They're going to deport him back to Indonesia, which is where he's from.

00:08:33.000 But he...

00:08:34.000 I think it's Indonesia.

00:08:36.000 He had an amazing palate.

00:08:39.000 He was a real legitimate wine collector.

00:08:42.000 And then somewhere along the line, he realized that buying and selling wine was good because he was kind of quartering the market on a lot of wines.

00:08:51.000 He was spending a ton of money.

00:08:52.000 He realized, you know what?

00:08:53.000 I can fake these wines.

00:08:55.000 I understand what these wines are.

00:08:58.000 So he started mixing wines together and he developed all these formulas of how to mix cheaper wines and he would sell them.

00:09:06.000 As like these super rare, you know, 1970-whatever wines.

00:09:10.000 But where he fucked up is, spoiler alert, one of the Koch brothers bought like $4 million worth of wine from him.

00:09:17.000 And one of his friends started, he had a friend who's an investigator of wine. 0.91

00:09:22.000 Apparently that's a thing.

00:09:23.000 Wine investigator.

00:09:24.000 The guy who really understands wine was telling him, like he bought bottles from Thomas Jefferson.

00:09:29.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:09:29.000 Like from the 1700s.

00:09:31.000 Chateau de Chem of Jefferson, I think, is still drinkable.

00:09:34.000 Really?

00:09:35.000 Well, there's this one particular kind of sauterne, which comes from the Semillon grape in the Bordeaux region, and it's made from this noble rot, so you get the grapes to sort of have this disease that concentrates the sugar, and I believe that Chateau de Chame, It's like weirdly drinkable beyond...

00:09:53.000 Hundreds of years?

00:09:54.000 Yeah, crazy.

00:09:55.000 Wow.

00:09:56.000 That's wild.

00:09:57.000 Because this guy just...

00:09:58.000 The Koch brother, he just had this stuff and just had it on display.

00:10:03.000 I mean, he has this immense... 0.97

00:10:04.000 I mean, it's worth fucking untold amounts of money. 0.74

00:10:07.000 What are you going to do with that money, right? 0.97

00:10:08.000 He just has an insane wine collection, millions and millions of dollars, but he has four million dollars of fake wine.

00:10:14.000 And he realized it as they were going through his collection, like that there was magnums from a year where they didn't make magnums.

00:10:25.000 Oh, that's bad.

00:10:29.000 A gentleman from France got involved.

00:10:32.000 France, I should say.

00:10:33.000 He got involved.

00:10:34.000 And he is an actual winemaker.

00:10:36.000 And his wine was being plagiarized.

00:10:41.000 They were faking his wine.

00:10:42.000 And so he came in and saw the counterfeit wines.

00:10:45.000 Even in the auctions, like he was pointing out in the auction booklet, like, these are fake wines.

00:10:51.000 Like, we did not have this wine in this year.

00:10:54.000 The label is incorrect.

00:10:56.000 This is incorrect.

00:10:57.000 And then, you know, there were some misspellings on some of the labels. 0.89

00:11:00.000 And this guy made fucking millions of dollars in wine and sold thousands and thousands of bottles. 0.97

00:11:09.000 And so initially they thought he was doing it all himself. 0.99

00:11:13.000 In his apartment.

00:11:14.000 But then when they realized the sheer volume of the fake wine this guy sold and put out there, that there had to be other people involved.

00:11:22.000 But he was the only one that went down for it.

00:11:23.000 And they think maybe his brothers in Indonesia were also involved in this scheme somehow.

00:11:28.000 But they feel like there's thousands and thousands of bottles of this stuff still in circulation and still being sold.

00:11:37.000 There was an auction that was...

00:11:38.000 They were selling this guy's wine.

00:11:40.000 I believe his name is Rudy.

00:11:42.000 Yeah.

00:12:03.000 What's crazy is one guy in the film is like, this is one of the real bottles that Rudy sold me. 0.98

00:12:09.000 Because Rudy was selling real wine before he started selling bullshit wine. 0.94

00:12:13.000 He's like, this is one of the real bottles. 0.99

00:12:14.000 Like, try it.

00:12:15.000 And the guy tries it and he's like, oh yeah, this is really good.

00:12:17.000 And then another guy gets a hold of it and he goes, when did you open this?

00:12:21.000 And he goes, what, a couple hours ago?

00:12:23.000 He's like...

00:12:24.000 He tasted it. 1.00

00:12:25.000 He goes, this is bullshit. 1.00

00:12:26.000 This is not real. 1.00

00:12:27.000 He goes, this doesn't have the vivacity.

00:12:30.000 It doesn't have the flavor.

00:12:31.000 This is not...

00:12:32.000 I've tasted this wine.

00:12:33.000 This is not the wine.

00:12:34.000 Because apparently, and I don't understand this at all, the palate of a wine connoisseur is this thing where they can literally...

00:12:43.000 You can give them a flight of wines, and they can tell you...

00:12:47.000 This is Petit Shiraz from Blah Blah Blah.

00:12:52.000 And I don't, again, I'm so out of my wheelhouse here.

00:12:55.000 I like Buffalo Trace whiskey.

00:12:58.000 I'm with you there, sir.

00:12:59.000 That's what I'm saying.

00:12:59.000 I know this tastes good.

00:13:01.000 But, okay, well, first of all, should we try to drink this in the weird wine way?

00:13:05.000 No.

00:13:06.000 No, this is American. 1.00

00:13:07.000 We don't fuck around here. 1.00

00:13:08.000 It's got a buffalo with testicles on the label, son. 1.00

00:13:11.000 Look at that, right there. 0.99

00:13:12.000 Like that.

00:13:13.000 Yes.

00:13:13.000 This is older than America, by the way.

00:13:16.000 You know this?

00:13:16.000 This company?

00:13:17.000 Buffalo Trace, they started making whiskey in 1773. It's literally three years older than America itself.

00:13:25.000 So the thing that I did not understand, I think, about wine is that if you're trying to taste your wine, you can't possibly get at what's this high-end stuff because it's only your nose that can determine these differences.

00:13:40.000 That nobody's got enough stuff going on in their tongue to tell great wine.

00:13:44.000 So you've got this thing called the retronasal passage in the back of your mouth.

00:13:48.000 Can I get a graph, Jamie?

00:13:49.000 Retro nasal passage.

00:13:51.000 Yeah, where do we pull this up?

00:13:52.000 Can I get a graphic?

00:13:54.000 And so this whole thing about burbling, where you turn your mouth into a bong, right? 0.72

00:13:59.000 Oh, yeah?

00:14:00.000 Let's do it.

00:14:00.000 How do you do it?

00:14:04.000 And they smell it?

00:14:05.000 Well, you're getting this fountain with air coming up, and then you're opening the back of your...

00:14:11.000 You're opening your retronasal passage.

00:14:13.000 You do get a little bit of a smell.

00:14:14.000 Right, and that's where the magic happens.

00:14:17.000 So the weird thing is somebody buys really expensive wine, and then they try to taste it.

00:14:22.000 Ah, here we go.

00:14:23.000 There we go.

00:14:23.000 That's for beer.

00:14:24.000 Well, it's for anything.

00:14:26.000 I know, but it's interesting.

00:14:27.000 Once you get addicted to... 1.00

00:14:30.000 Smelling shit? 1.00

00:14:30.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:14:31.000 Maybe that's like dudes are into smelling feet, like that's what's going on.

00:14:36.000 You're not trapping me in that conversation.

00:14:38.000 No, we had a guy at Kill Tony who was really into feet. 0.96

00:14:41.000 He was fucking hilarious.

00:14:43.000 Were you there, Jamie, that night? 0.98

00:14:46.000 I killed Tony recently at Anton's, and this kid went up.

00:14:50.000 He was really funny.

00:14:51.000 He was a funny comic, but he was really funny.

00:14:54.000 He was talking about how he's really into girls' feet. 0.99

00:14:56.000 He was completely unapologetic, and he was hilarious.

00:15:02.000 He was just talking about how he likes to smell girls' feet.

00:15:06.000 You notice how everybody else's attraction is weird, and whatever your thing is, it's like, yeah, I don't know.

00:15:11.000 I'm just into that.

00:15:11.000 What was funny?

00:15:12.000 I mean, it was definitely weird because it's unusual that someone would be...

00:15:15.000 I don't think it's unusual that guys are in a feat.

00:15:18.000 I think it's a lot more usual than you think.

00:15:20.000 But I think what is unusual is that he was so open about expressing the fact that he was in defeat in front of a group of strangers in a one-minute set on Kill Tony.

00:15:31.000 Do you know how Kill Tony works?

00:15:33.000 Not really.

00:15:34.000 Kill Tony is the foundation.

00:15:37.000 It was one of the foundations in Los Angeles, and I think it's going to be the foundation in Austin of the open mic community.

00:15:43.000 Okay.

00:15:44.000 Because it gives a comic one minute.

00:15:47.000 Tony Hinchcliffe developed a show, and him and Brian Redband, they do it together, and Tony has a hat.

00:15:53.000 They shake the hat up, or a bucket.

00:15:55.000 They reach in the bucket, and they pull out a name.

00:15:58.000 Okay.

00:15:58.000 Random.

00:15:59.000 And then that person doesn't know if they're going to perform or not.

00:16:02.000 There's maybe 30 people that throw their names in and maybe five get to perform.

00:16:06.000 And Tony pulls that name out, calls the guy or girl or non-binary folk, and they come running onto the stage and they do one minute of stand-up.

00:16:15.000 Got it.

00:16:15.000 And this guy did one minute of stand-up about how he gets hard-ons because of feet.

00:16:19.000 And it was just hilarious.

00:16:22.000 But he was talking about the smell of feet.

00:16:26.000 And a girl got on stage and took her shoe off and he smelled her foot.

00:16:29.000 It was preposterous.

00:16:31.000 Okay.

00:16:32.000 But it gives these comics an opportunity to...

00:16:35.000 At that night, I think it was me and Adam Eget that night.

00:16:40.000 But it's like Donnell Rawlings has been on.

00:16:43.000 You name Dom Irera as a favorite guest.

00:16:48.000 Great comics are on it all the time.

00:16:50.000 So there's a professional...

00:16:53.000 Okay.

00:17:08.000 Okay.

00:17:20.000 Yeah, and so it's like you could develop a legitimate professional career from this, but it's like a really good path for these amateurs to get like one minute of stage time.

00:17:31.000 So they hone this one minute, hoping they're going to get called onto the stage.

00:17:34.000 And usually like, if you're a halfway decent comic and you've been doing it, you know, six months, a year, you probably have a minute.

00:17:41.000 You probably have a minute where you could get up there and rock it for a minute.

00:17:44.000 Some of them are terrible, but some of them are really funny.

00:17:47.000 What's the best way to get people opened up almost instantly with no foreplay? 1.00

00:17:53.000 There's no way.

00:17:56.000 There's a different way for you than it would be for Jamie, than it would be for me.

00:18:00.000 I've seen it be different for you on different nights.

00:18:02.000 Yeah, it's always different.

00:18:05.000 It's a living thing.

00:18:07.000 The audience is a living thing.

00:18:09.000 It depends entirely upon what's happened before you went on stage.

00:18:12.000 It depends entirely on what time of night it is.

00:18:15.000 There's a lot going on.

00:18:16.000 I'm always a little freaked out when I see you at the store because...

00:18:21.000 I don't associate, like, I got to know you before I ever got to see you be funny in front of a crowd. 0.99

00:18:27.000 And it was just like, holy shit, you can do that?

00:18:30.000 And it's a different persona. 0.99

00:18:33.000 Like, you can clearly see that a different mind has clicked in.

00:18:36.000 It's like the I know kung fu moment. 0.89

00:18:38.000 It is like that, right?

00:18:40.000 Yeah.

00:18:40.000 And it's like, if you saw me do kung fu, you'd think that too.

00:18:44.000 Do you know kung fu?

00:18:45.000 I don't really know any kung fu, but, you know, it's a thing, you know?

00:18:50.000 You've got to know how to do it. 0.99

00:18:51.000 Then you've got to, when you do it, you've got to treat that audience like, you know, you've got to bring the good shit. 0.99

00:18:58.000 You've got to come with the good jokes. 0.98

00:19:00.000 It's like when I saw Steven Seagal playing blues guitar at the first time, I was just like, what?

00:19:05.000 Is he good?

00:19:07.000 He...

00:19:08.000 I don't want to say anything negative, but I've seen parts of it that have been really, really pretty good.

00:19:13.000 Yeah.

00:19:14.000 I don't know.

00:19:15.000 I mean, I'm...

00:19:19.000 I'm trying to figure out what happened to the guitar and what happened to COVID changing the world of guitar because everybody was indoors.

00:19:26.000 COVID changed the world of guitar?

00:19:28.000 Lots of people had time on their hands and no one could socialize.

00:19:31.000 And the amps have gotten wildly better.

00:19:34.000 In the last year?

00:19:36.000 I bought a modeling amp for $250 that changed my life from Positive Grid called the Spark Amp.

00:19:44.000 We were talking about it with Jamie.

00:19:45.000 And it is...

00:19:46.000 A replica of, like, all the gear that real guys have that hobbyists, like, don't even know what it is.

00:19:53.000 I can play with it, and it'll model all of these setups.

00:19:57.000 So suddenly, like, I'm smarter.

00:19:59.000 And then, you know, this weird thing I was telling Jamie about...

00:20:01.000 This had to have been developed long in advance before COVID. Yes, but I think a $250 item that just blows your mind may be relatively new.

00:20:12.000 And I think there's one coming from...

00:20:15.000 Oh, with neural DSP. So there's like competing.

00:20:19.000 And Jamie was talking about the Helix.

00:20:21.000 So there's like this collection of these things.

00:20:24.000 And I hadn't spent $300 on my rig for 30 years or something.

00:20:29.000 And I did this.

00:20:31.000 And suddenly, a little bit more magic was, like, available to me.

00:20:38.000 Really?

00:20:38.000 And then I put a brief clip of myself playing on Instagram, and I got contacted by, like, some of the greatest guitarists in the effing world.

00:20:47.000 When Tosin Abasi and Joe Robinson and Ryan Roxy, who's the guitarist for, like, Alice Cooper, contact you, and they're like, This is you jamming.

00:21:00.000 Give me some of this.

00:21:01.000 Give me some of this, Jamie.

00:21:04.000 You jamming to Glenn Beck?

00:21:05.000 Is that what it says?

00:21:20.000 That wasn't actually the one that... 0.93

00:21:21.000 That's pretty fucking good. 0.95

00:21:23.000 And you're doing that without a pick. 0.97

00:21:26.000 If there's another one...

00:21:28.000 Yeah, that one.

00:21:31.000 Is that one bad?

00:21:32.000 I didn't know you were supposed to...

00:21:33.000 Yeah, you...

00:21:34.000 That was the one that did it, I think.

00:21:39.000 Apparently you're supposed to use a pick, but I didn't know.

00:21:53.000 Basically, I'm playing air guitar with a real guitar.

00:21:56.000 That's really good, dude.

00:21:57.000 Well, that's the amp and the fact that somebody set up my strat.

00:22:02.000 What do you mean that you didn't know you're supposed to play with a pitch?

00:22:04.000 Dude, I don't know what I'm doing.

00:22:05.000 I don't know what I'm doing.

00:22:06.000 How'd you learn how to do this?

00:22:09.000 I hang out in a room alone.

00:22:11.000 It's sort of dark and lonely.

00:22:13.000 Really?

00:22:13.000 Yeah.

00:22:14.000 When did you learn this?

00:22:16.000 This is part of the thing.

00:22:17.000 I do a bunch of things that I don't do with other people, right? 0.98

00:22:21.000 I just learn shit on my own. 0.97

00:22:22.000 Right, but when did you learn this? 1.00

00:22:23.000 How long ago?

00:22:25.000 I don't even know.

00:22:26.000 Some of it in the last year.

00:22:27.000 But when did you start playing guitar?

00:22:29.000 You're being cool.

00:22:30.000 No, I've had a guitar.

00:22:31.000 I don't like it.

00:22:31.000 I'm going to call you out on this.

00:22:32.000 I don't like it.

00:22:33.000 Okay.

00:22:33.000 I've had a guitar since I was...

00:22:36.000 Go after yourself.

00:22:38.000 I've had a guitar since I was 15, but I don't know when.

00:22:41.000 Okay, so you've been playing forever, but you're self-taught. 1.00

00:22:43.000 Yeah, and then you have these plateaus where suddenly you take your head out of your ass. 1.00

00:22:47.000 Well, Hendrix was self-taught. 1.00

00:22:49.000 You know?

00:22:49.000 Almost all of the really great people.

00:22:51.000 Stevie Ray Vaughan, I believe, was self-taught.

00:22:52.000 Albert King was self-taught.

00:22:54.000 All of these guys were on the next level.

00:22:57.000 Where are they going to learn it from?

00:22:59.000 Who creates a Danny Gatton or a Roy Buchanan?

00:23:02.000 Nobody knows.

00:23:03.000 I don't know who those guys are, but I'll trust you.

00:23:05.000 They'll blow your mind.

00:23:06.000 Will they?

00:23:07.000 I wonder how Gary learned.

00:23:09.000 Gary Clark Jr.?

00:23:10.000 Gary Clark Jr.?

00:23:11.000 Gary Clark Jr.?

00:23:12.000 Psycho.

00:23:12.000 What does it say?

00:23:13.000 Self-taught, bitch! 1.00

00:23:15.000 Woo! 0.99

00:23:16.000 So I can't do that stuff, but the point that I'm starting to come to is I realize when different communities behave differently, there are angry, jealous communities and there are open-hearted, we're glad to have you on board communities. 0.98

00:23:31.000 And I could not believe the quality of the people who reached out to me to give me encouragement for whatever stupid... 0.97

00:23:37.000 And this thing... 0.99

00:23:38.000 I don't know how to hold a pick.

00:23:39.000 I don't know how to do this stuff with a pick.

00:23:42.000 I just can't...

00:23:43.000 I think as long as the sound is good, they don't care.

00:23:45.000 Is that correct?

00:23:46.000 I think more than that.

00:23:48.000 I think that the idea is that there's this one of us thing.

00:23:51.000 Like, okay...

00:23:53.000 I can see that he's spent time in the trenches trying to figure out what we do, and most people don't care, and he does.

00:23:59.000 And so the idea is, I did a guitar podcast recently, and I just expected this other thing, which is like...

00:24:09.000 What do you mean by you did a guitar podcast?

00:24:12.000 Ryan Roxy, for Alice Cooper, says, I want you on the podcast as a fellow guitarist.

00:24:16.000 Oh, his podcast.

00:24:17.000 And so, like, Joe Satriani, you know, was sitting in that chair, and then here I am saying, like...

00:24:23.000 Wow.

00:24:25.000 Well, but in part, when people are, like, fans of...

00:24:29.000 I mean, you do comedy, you do acting, you do jujitsu, you do so many different things that you know that there's some things that you don't do at the same level as other things.

00:24:40.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:24:41.000 When people see that you're taking an interest, like if I found out that you were a road racing bicyclist or something like that, people would be like, wow, Joe's one of us.

00:24:54.000 They're happy to have you on board.

00:24:55.000 I feel what you're saying.

00:24:56.000 Yeah.

00:24:57.000 Especially like weird, esoteric things, you know, weird...

00:25:01.000 Like mandolin, for example.

00:25:03.000 Whenever I do something on mandolin, you know, I have all these people, oh, I'm one of those people, too.

00:25:08.000 I have a mandolin.

00:25:09.000 It's probably pretty rare, right?

00:25:10.000 How many people are playing mandolin?

00:25:12.000 I don't know.

00:25:13.000 It was competitive with the guitar in the late 1800s, I think, and then the guitar sort of just blew it out of the water.

00:25:22.000 But there's a new thing called octave mandolin, which is down an entire octave, so it doesn't have that kind of really bright, tinny sound.

00:25:29.000 So I'm going to pursue the octave mandolin and see whether...

00:25:33.000 Is there any benefit in a kid learning how to play the recorder? 0.99

00:25:37.000 It seems like they're just fucking with those kids when they give them a recorder. 0.74

00:25:40.000 Well, look, there's some cool stuff from, like, Telamon, if you're really into... 0.96

00:25:44.000 Right, but, like, no one plays professional recorder, right?

00:25:46.000 Can you get chicks with a recorder? 1.00

00:25:48.000 I don't know.

00:25:48.000 I don't know if you can.

00:25:49.000 You would get those chicks anyway. 1.00

00:25:51.000 Well, you know, the scene with Belushi and the guitar.

00:25:54.000 Yes!

00:25:55.000 You have to be very careful what you play.

00:25:57.000 I know, we all do.

00:25:58.000 I love that scene.

00:25:59.000 It's so real.

00:26:00.000 It's so real.

00:26:01.000 Sorry.

00:26:02.000 Yeah, it's so real.

00:26:03.000 I've been at a party where a guy busts out a guitar and starts singing, and you're like, oh my god, who are you?

00:26:09.000 What have you done?

00:26:13.000 Well, what are the skills that you would want to acquire at this show?

00:26:16.000 I think music would be really interesting to learn.

00:26:19.000 Either play the piano or play the guitar.

00:26:21.000 I just don't have the time.

00:26:23.000 I don't have the time to do the things that I already do.

00:26:27.000 How about hyper-accelerating one of those things?

00:26:29.000 Like getting somebody who understands your brain.

00:26:32.000 Because you're a great learner.

00:26:34.000 I'm good at listening.

00:26:36.000 You have a beginner's mindset a lot.

00:26:39.000 Yeah, well, I think I do a lot of things from scratch.

00:26:43.000 I think that's how I got good at jiu-jitsu is listening.

00:26:47.000 I didn't get good at jiu-jitsu because I figured it out myself.

00:26:49.000 I get good because my friend Eddie Bravo is a great coach, and my original instructor Jean-Jacques Machado is a great coach, and I just listen to them.

00:26:56.000 What made Eddie a great jiu-jitsu intellectual?

00:27:00.000 Eddie thinks way outside the box.

00:27:02.000 Way, way, way outside the box.

00:27:04.000 And he's just real creative.

00:27:06.000 Because he's a musician.

00:27:09.000 That's what he does outside of jiu-jitsu.

00:27:13.000 Yeah, he's done comedy, too.

00:27:14.000 He was always really funny.

00:27:16.000 And I tried to get him to do comedy way back in the day.

00:27:19.000 And he did a few open mics, but it was just too harrowing for him.

00:27:21.000 But then when he started doing a lot of seminars and got really comfortable teaching, because he became a jiu-jitsu instructor and started teaching for a living, then he got much more comfortable in front of large groups of people, and then he started doing stand-up again within the last five or six years or so,

00:27:41.000 something like that.

00:27:43.000 He's very funny.

00:27:44.000 He's just a funny guy.

00:27:46.000 Me and him hang out. 0.91

00:27:47.000 We fucking laugh so hard. 0.97

00:27:49.000 He's like, other than Joey Diaz, I probably laugh harder with Eddie Bravo than anybody that I know. 0.98

00:27:54.000 But he thinks different than people.

00:27:57.000 And sometimes it's a problem where he starts entertaining some ideas that are completely preposterous, and he goes deep with them because he's figured out a way with jiu-jitsu to take ideas that a lot of people didn't think were good and figured out a way to tap people out with those ideas.

00:28:12.000 He took some ideas and he said, no, you just gotta...

00:28:15.000 For instance, here's a perfect example.

00:28:18.000 There's certain kicks that if you just showed someone it, they would say, well, that's not practical.

00:28:25.000 You're not gonna be able to do that.

00:28:27.000 The problem is you just haven't reached a proficiency like maybe a Stephen Wonderboy Thompson or something like that where it will become practical.

00:28:35.000 A specific kick is like a spinning wheel kick.

00:28:38.000 It's a wild, cool-looking kick.

00:28:40.000 It looks great in a Bruce Lee movie, right?

00:28:41.000 Wonderboy Thompson, he's a famous mixed martial arts fighter.

00:28:45.000 He pulls that off in fights because he's a 57-0 kickboxer and one of the best strikers that's ever competed in mixed martial arts.

00:28:53.000 So his proficiency in striking is so elite that he can do things that if you just taught...

00:29:00.000 Some people would say...

00:29:02.000 That's impractical.

00:29:03.000 That'll never work in a fight.

00:29:04.000 But it will work in a fight if you reach the highest level of proficiency.

00:29:08.000 And Eddie had that same mindset with jiu-jitsu techniques, and he figured out a way to make some techniques that a lot of people thought were impractical, not just possible, but really very...

00:29:20.000 And repeatable.

00:29:21.000 Yes.

00:29:22.000 Not just repeatable, but high percentage.

00:29:24.000 Especially if someone is in a situation where they don't understand what's happening.

00:29:31.000 So they don't understand what's in danger or where the counters are or where you're trapped.

00:29:36.000 He's just real creative.

00:29:39.000 But again, he gets tripped up. 1.00

00:29:41.000 He starts believing some wacky shit. 0.99

00:29:43.000 But then he gets out of it. 1.00

00:29:44.000 He'll let things go after a while.

00:29:46.000 But it's because he entertains ideas.

00:29:50.000 Because he doesn't trust mainstream thought.

00:29:53.000 So mainstream thought, whether it's in jujitsu or mainstream thought, whether it's in economics or whatever.

00:29:58.000 Aren't we all struggling with this a little bit?

00:30:00.000 There's no part of the mainstream that looks at all credible to me anymore.

00:30:04.000 Well, it's real wacky now, right?

00:30:06.000 And here's a wacky one.

00:30:08.000 Where the New York Times is...

00:30:10.000 They're debunking this idea that the Wuhan lab may have been the source of COVID. When all these different people are talking about it...

00:30:23.000 We've been on this for forever.

00:30:24.000 We have been on it forever.

00:30:25.000 What is extraordinary is the New York Times is still saying debunked claims with no evidence whatsoever.

00:30:34.000 You know, Sagar and Jetty from Rising and The Hill had this whole piece about it on his YouTube channel.

00:30:39.000 I love what they're doing.

00:30:40.000 They're the best.

00:30:41.000 They're the best.

00:30:41.000 Well, he's got two channels.

00:30:42.000 Have you been on either?

00:30:44.000 Well, I've only had him on here and Crystal together.

00:30:47.000 But what I liked about...

00:30:49.000 What you guys did right at the beginning of that where they explained what happens...

00:30:52.000 I didn't mean to cut you off.

00:30:53.000 That's okay.

00:30:54.000 What happens in the cycle when your team wins and your team loses and how they've both broken out of that and they've thrown that away.

00:31:00.000 Yes.

00:31:00.000 That was 10 minutes that I needed to hear.

00:31:04.000 I thought the three of you guys broke really new ground.

00:31:07.000 They're what we need.

00:31:09.000 There's a reasonable person on the left and a reasonable person on the right, and they're both committed to honesty above all.

00:31:16.000 They might have different philosophical perspectives.

00:31:18.000 I think they're coming together.

00:31:18.000 I think Crystal's coming towards Sagar because she's seeing the rot on the left.

00:31:24.000 What my hope is is that she's going to be...

00:31:29.000 A credible progressive who's rejecting all this nonsense progressivism.

00:31:33.000 Yeah, I think you're right.

00:31:35.000 She's very smart, and so is he, and the two of them together are wonderful.

00:31:38.000 What were you going to say before I cut you off?

00:31:39.000 What I was going to say is, they were talking about how the New York Times is talking about this...

00:31:45.000 I forget who they were quoting, who was entertaining this idea.

00:31:50.000 Redfield.

00:31:50.000 The CDC guy?

00:31:52.000 That's right, the CDC guy.

00:31:53.000 That he was entertaining this idea, this...

00:32:00.000 I don't know.

00:32:03.000 I don't know.

00:32:18.000 What they do, it's a weird move.

00:32:20.000 We should tell people exactly what they're saying.

00:32:22.000 Okay, the former head of the CDC is saying that it's more probable than not.

00:32:29.000 He's not saying it's absolute.

00:32:31.000 He's saying it's more probable than not that it escaped from a lab.

00:32:34.000 Right.

00:32:34.000 And he details it, and he actually predates it.

00:32:37.000 He goes deep into September and October, he believes, it might have emanated around that time and started spreading.

00:32:46.000 Right.

00:32:47.000 The reason why is...

00:32:49.000 And it all makes total sense.

00:32:50.000 This is a very unusual laboratory.

00:32:53.000 The laboratory had been cited in 2018 for safety protocol violations.

00:32:57.000 The laboratory works on the exact same kinds of coronaviruses that...

00:33:04.000 Cause this worldwide pandemic on bats.

00:33:07.000 They work on bat coronaviruses. 0.92

00:33:09.000 And this is one of two level four labs that are in this area.

00:33:13.000 So this whole thing is so, it's so much more likely that it emanated from the lab. 0.67

00:33:19.000 But the problem is the narrative was Donald Trump is racist.

00:33:25.000 Donald Trump calls it the China virus. 0.95

00:33:27.000 Donald Trump says it came from a lab.

00:33:29.000 It can't have come from a lab because Donald Trump's always wrong.

00:33:33.000 That's one possibility.

00:33:35.000 I'm worried about something beyond that.

00:33:37.000 What are you worried about?

00:33:38.000 The way that they make this move is that they synonymize the lab leak hypothesis with a synthetic virus engineered from scratch.

00:33:48.000 So in other words, the idea of maybe somebody growing horseshoe bat coronavirus in human lung tissue to accelerate natural selection, because we don't know how to engineer it, but if you let natural selection engineer it, You can accelerate that. 0.60

00:34:04.000 Instead of saying, we don't know what to make of accelerated natural selection in a lab leaking, they try to make this move, which is like, there's no sign that this was engineered in a lab.

00:34:19.000 Okay, well, you changed what the hypothesis is in order to say what you're saying to protect your future credibility.

00:34:25.000 And the thing that I'm really freaking out about, you've been talking about it, Brett's been talking about it, I've been talking about it, all sorts of people have been talking about this one for a year.

00:34:34.000 I increasingly think that none of these organizations think that they owe us any kind of truth.

00:34:39.000 That when they get caught, it's just like, yeah, of course we had to say that.

00:34:43.000 Like, what?

00:34:45.000 You know, like this Time Magazine article about, of course we fortified the election.

00:34:50.000 You what?

00:34:51.000 Oh yeah, we fortified it.

00:34:54.000 Trump was right about a conspiracy.

00:34:56.000 Who was quoting that?

00:34:58.000 Who were they quoting that said they fortified the election?

00:35:01.000 There was apparently some entire group under one guy with hundreds of activists who told their people, don't riot in the streets, have a dance party instead.

00:35:13.000 I would highly recommend Time Magazine.

00:35:16.000 I read the blurb about the fortifying, and I was like, hmm, that's a disturbing quote, but what does it mean?

00:35:24.000 What are they trying to mean?

00:35:26.000 The claim of the article is, we went right up to the door meddling with the election, but all we cared about was free and fair.

00:35:36.000 And we had a huge conspiracy.

00:35:38.000 So Donald Trump wasn't wrong.

00:35:39.000 There was a huge conspiracy.

00:35:41.000 But we are so committed to democracy that even though we hate Donald Trump with a passion that won't let go 24-7, we still would never do anything against an election. 0.99

00:35:51.000 The problem is with a guy like Trump, you can almost justify some horrible horseshit. 0.90

00:35:57.000 If you claim that you have to fight all enemies, foreign and domestic, and you claim that he's a Russian asset, You're pretty much saying that you have to do something drastic.

00:36:07.000 And so the number of things that people claim is what the problem is because they're not all compatible.

00:36:12.000 And what I'm trying to get at more broadly is over and over I see the same move, which is deny, deny, deny, we get caught.

00:36:20.000 Yeah, limited hangout. 1.00

00:36:22.000 Yeah, we did that shit. 1.00

00:36:23.000 That's the kind of stuff we do because we have to do it. 1.00

00:36:25.000 But I don't think they're saying they got caught.

00:36:27.000 I think they're saying that what we did was make sure the election was fair.

00:36:31.000 It was...

00:36:32.000 I think the concept of a limited hangout where you know that something is too big to hold back, so you push a part of it into the public, not all of it, that's the limited, and you let the public think, okay, well now you know the truth, and it stops there.

00:36:46.000 And then they stop asking questions because they've got a new toy to play with. 0.99

00:36:49.000 Have you been paying attention to the border crisis shit? 0.99

00:36:53.000 Where it's not bad when Democrats do it? 0.99

00:36:55.000 It's not bad when Democrats do it, and it's even worse than when Trump was doing it, but it's still not bad.

00:37:01.000 It's bad.

00:37:01.000 I don't know how to be a logical Democrat anymore.

00:37:04.000 No, I don't know how to do it either.

00:37:06.000 I'm politically homeless.

00:37:07.000 I'm politically homeless now.

00:37:09.000 And these people have done it because it's a low IQ movement or it's a low integrity movement or it's a low IQ movement.

00:37:20.000 It can't be high IQ, high integrity.

00:37:22.000 You and I had a conversation on this very podcast and I said that I would vote for Trump before I would vote for Biden.

00:37:28.000 I remember that.

00:37:29.000 And people got mad at me.

00:37:29.000 I didn't wind up voting for either one.

00:37:31.000 I voted for Joe Jorgensen because I'm like, this is almost like a protest vote.

00:37:35.000 Yeah, I did the same.

00:37:36.000 But my point was exactly what we're experiencing right now. 0.97

00:37:40.000 The guy does press conferences and they're like something out of a fucking macabre movie. 0.94

00:37:45.000 I feel like I'm terrified. 0.99

00:37:47.000 It's like Grandpa's at the wheel and he's not on his medication.

00:37:51.000 This is nuts, man.

00:37:52.000 I know.

00:37:53.000 It's nuts here.

00:37:53.000 And then now they're calling it – they're not calling it the Biden administration anymore.

00:37:57.000 They're calling it the Biden-Harris administration, which to me is like letting you know that there's only a matter of time before it's President Harris.

00:38:05.000 You remember when you said this thing to this kid in Florida?

00:38:07.000 I'm a – didn't say caretaker president, but – I'm just sort of here to warm the seat.

00:38:15.000 You're the future.

00:38:16.000 You're just thinking like, okay, you're the oldest president in American history by a long shot.

00:38:22.000 Why do we need a transitional?

00:38:25.000 I'm a transitional.

00:38:26.000 But here's the thing.

00:38:26.000 Bernie's older than him, right?

00:38:29.000 Jimmy Carter's still in the game.

00:38:31.000 Jimmy Carter's still in the game because he could do a second term?

00:38:33.000 Yeah.

00:38:34.000 He's a thousand years old.

00:38:35.000 He just got over cancer.

00:38:37.000 I'm hoping that I'm joking.

00:38:40.000 You're joking.

00:38:40.000 I hope so.

00:38:41.000 But Bernie is lucid.

00:38:43.000 That's my point.

00:38:44.000 I believe Bernie is at least Biden's age.

00:38:47.000 Am I correct?

00:38:48.000 Or is he older?

00:38:48.000 Older.

00:38:49.000 He's older.

00:38:49.000 But very lucid.

00:38:51.000 Yeah.

00:38:51.000 When he talks, he talks clearly, and apparently he said he's going to run again, which is kind of crazy.

00:38:57.000 So what is he going to do?

00:38:59.000 How is that going to work?

00:39:00.000 Is he going to go independent?

00:39:03.000 Why can't we have anyone younger than us?

00:39:07.000 I'm 55. I could vote for Tulsi.

00:39:11.000 Yes, I could vote for Tulsi. 1.00

00:39:12.000 You know who I think has a shot is the fucking governor of Florida. 1.00

00:39:15.000 Okay. 1.00

00:39:16.000 I think he has a shot.

00:39:17.000 I really do.

00:39:20.000 Maybe this is going to depress me too much.

00:39:22.000 Maybe it will.

00:39:23.000 I mean, I don't know what you have to do to run the country correctly. 1.00

00:39:29.000 What you can't do is what Trump did, is say, fuck you, to the people that don't agree with you. 1.00

00:39:36.000 He didn't unite people. 1.00

00:39:38.000 He was like, I'm doing it, and I'm kicking ass, and you're coming with me, and everybody's like... 0.89

00:39:41.000 Yeah! 0.98

00:39:42.000 All the Trumpsters were like, yeah! 1.00

00:39:43.000 But everybody else was like, ah, this motherfucker! 1.00

00:39:46.000 He riled them up. 1.00

00:39:48.000 He made them angry.

00:39:49.000 He made them furious.

00:39:50.000 I understand, but we can't have any solution that could work, so we have to select from this menu of the unworkable people.

00:39:56.000 Right.

00:39:56.000 Well, I don't know if that's necessarily true.

00:39:59.000 It's just what we have at the moment.

00:40:01.000 It's like you go to a restaurant and you're like, well, all they ever have is a hamburger.

00:40:04.000 That's just what's on the menu currently.

00:40:06.000 Like, you know, another manager can take over this restaurant and they can expand the menu.

00:40:11.000 I was in Cambridge, Massachusetts for almost 20 years and there was Cafe Algiers and had soup of the day.

00:40:16.000 And we always used to ask because every single day for 20 years was lentil soup.

00:40:20.000 Every day?

00:40:21.000 Every day, soup of the day was lentil soup.

00:40:23.000 Well, Cambridge is a mess.

00:40:24.000 Really? 0.97

00:40:25.000 Yeah, Cambridge is a crazy place.

00:40:26.000 You're from Massachusetts.

00:40:27.000 Yeah, I used to do Catch a Rising Star.

00:40:29.000 Oh, right.

00:40:29.000 That was like the weirdest place to perform.

00:40:31.000 That was the beginning of the PC movement.

00:40:33.000 It was like the PC movement in the 80s was like the first warning shots of wokeness, what we're experiencing now.

00:40:41.000 Actually, if you go back to Clint Eastwood in one of the Dirty Harry movies, it's a really interesting scene where he's told that he has to approve new candidates for the force for detective, and there's a female candidate,

00:40:56.000 and he's not happy.

00:40:58.000 But the reason he's not happy is super subtle.

00:41:00.000 He asks, how fast can you run the hundred?

00:41:03.000 Wow.

00:41:04.000 Like, his thing is not about male versus female.

00:41:07.000 Right.

00:41:07.000 Performance.

00:41:07.000 It's like, don't touch the requirements.

00:41:11.000 Yeah.

00:41:12.000 Well, that's how people feel about the military.

00:41:14.000 They're lowering standards of military physical tests to enable more women to get involved. 1.00

00:41:22.000 Or out of shape people.

00:41:24.000 That's what I want.

00:41:25.000 I want more septage.

00:41:26.000 No ageism in the special forces.

00:41:29.000 Yeah.

00:41:30.000 Jesus Christ.

00:41:31.000 Well, Tim Kennedy had a post about this recently because there was someone who was hired by the Pentagon for some sort of diversity role, and they just let him go because they found out that he had some posts that were very questionable on social media about Hitler and Trump,

00:41:50.000 and so they got rid of him.

00:41:54.000 Tim Kennedy's point was there's no room for the concept of diversity with trained killers. 0.97

00:42:00.000 Our job is killing people.

00:42:02.000 There's no room for woke politics or political correctness. 1.00

00:42:06.000 We're there to get shit done. 0.98

00:42:07.000 What are you doing, Jamie? 0.99

00:42:08.000 You got something for us? 1.00

00:42:10.000 Oh, it's like, our job is to get shit done and kill bad people. 1.00

00:42:15.000 Right. 1.00

00:42:15.000 Like, there's no room for diversity. 1.00

00:42:17.000 You know, we don't need to send a fucking South Pacific trans man in to do the job because it would make everybody look good in the newspaper. 0.99

00:42:26.000 Like, you get the best killer for the job, and they're the ones who complete the task. 0.99

00:42:30.000 Well, but...

00:42:30.000 So the idea is no relaxation of standards.

00:42:33.000 Ruthless requirements.

00:42:34.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:42:34.000 That's what BUDS is, right?

00:42:36.000 When they choose SEALs, it's a ruthless elimination of anybody that's going to quit.

00:42:42.000 And you need that.

00:42:44.000 You can't lighten that up at all, because then you won't have SEALs.

00:42:48.000 Right.

00:42:48.000 You'll have some fake thing that you've created some...

00:42:52.000 It's like fight training or marathon running.

00:42:55.000 You can't say...

00:42:58.000 You know, like, you don't have to run the full 26 miles because, you know, you're a this or a that. 0.99

00:43:03.000 You know, like, no, you gotta fucking... 0.99

00:43:04.000 This is the standard. 0.99

00:43:06.000 This is what it is.

00:43:07.000 The person who wins, wins.

00:43:09.000 Like, that's how it goes. 0.84

00:43:10.000 It's like, you gotta get under three hours or whatever the fuck they can do it now.

00:43:14.000 Isn't there a guy who can do it in two hours? 0.51

00:43:16.000 Isn't there a dude?

00:43:17.000 Isn't that the new...

00:43:19.000 Who can do what in two hours?

00:43:20.000 The marathon.

00:43:20.000 Yeah?

00:43:21.000 Yeah, the new...

00:43:22.000 Yeah.

00:43:23.000 They made a way for him to break it.

00:43:25.000 With some funky shoes, right?

00:43:26.000 They did a lot of work to get it to happen, but it did happen.

00:43:28.000 And he's a beast. 0.89

00:43:29.000 On top of that. 0.98

00:43:30.000 Correct, yes.

00:43:34.000 You can't lighten standards, man.

00:43:35.000 You can't discourage competition because the people that you would like to see succeed aren't succeeding.

00:43:41.000 There's a place for everybody.

00:43:43.000 Life is a giant spectrum of activities and disciplines and things that people are enjoying.

00:43:52.000 You can't decide that you don't have enough of these people and this, so you're going to change what it is.

00:43:58.000 There's not enough light people in basketball.

00:44:00.000 We're going to slow it down.

00:44:02.000 And what are you going to do?

00:44:04.000 No, you can't.

00:44:06.000 You can't do that.

00:44:07.000 You can't.

00:44:07.000 It is what it is.

00:44:09.000 Yeah.

00:44:10.000 Okay.

00:44:11.000 I'm with you.

00:44:12.000 I'm with you. 0.99

00:44:15.000 The problem is if you say that, you're a racist or a sexist or a homophobe or something. 0.92

00:44:19.000 Why don't you just agree that we're all of those things, pay the fine and get on with it.

00:44:22.000 But we're not.

00:44:23.000 We're none of those things.

00:44:24.000 We're just humans.

00:44:25.000 It doesn't matter.

00:44:26.000 I think that the thing that I don't want to do is I don't want to pay the tax every day.

00:44:30.000 Of course, Joe, I'm not saying this.

00:44:32.000 That's what they want you to do.

00:44:34.000 The people that are woke, what it is, is a forced compliance to an ideology.

00:44:38.000 And they'll bully you into compliance.

00:44:41.000 Before they will hear your terms, they will bully you into compliance.

00:44:44.000 And that's what happened with your brother in Clubhouse.

00:44:46.000 They bullied him into a specific conversation before they allowed him to speak.

00:44:52.000 Islam, for example, has a lot of overhead.

00:44:54.000 In the name of all of the compassionate, the merciful, and Muhammad, peace be upon him.

00:44:58.000 But they just write PBUH, so they only use up four characters, so they don't have to do the whole thing.

00:45:02.000 But what I'm trying to say is, we should be able to say something like PBUH about the whole thing that we have to say every time we want to have an opinion, because it's just too expensive.

00:45:13.000 The overhead is killing us.

00:45:15.000 I see what you're saying.

00:45:17.000 Like all usual caveats.

00:45:19.000 All I want to say is, all usual caveats.

00:45:22.000 And then I want to abbreviate that so I can go, all usual caveats.

00:45:25.000 And then I can get on with what I'm saying.

00:45:26.000 My hope is that the Outrage Olympics will be exhausting for people.

00:45:32.000 Yeah.

00:45:32.000 And they'll eventually come out on the other end and realize that what's important is just be nice.

00:45:39.000 Just be nice and be a good person.

00:45:40.000 And stop bullshitting people.

00:45:43.000 How long is this taking?

00:45:45.000 I mean, the late 60s were over very quickly.

00:45:49.000 Well, the problem is it's weaponized.

00:45:49.000 I know.

00:45:50.000 Right?

00:45:50.000 Like, accusations are weaponized, and anytime something happens, you can politicize that event and use it to...

00:45:57.000 But it's so effing boring.

00:45:59.000 I can't stand how boring it is.

00:46:01.000 It's not just boring.

00:46:02.000 It's dangerous.

00:46:03.000 Well, this is the thing, right?

00:46:05.000 It's these twin...

00:46:06.000 People talk about this in terms of, like, combat.

00:46:09.000 You know, dangerous and boring.

00:46:11.000 Mm-hmm.

00:46:12.000 And it's much more dangerous the more bored you get because mostly nothing's happening.

00:46:17.000 Right.

00:46:18.000 And that's the thing that, you know, I wrote an entire article about this with Kayfabe, which is that in order to get wrestling to be exciting, you had to move away from actual wrestling.

00:46:28.000 And that's the origin of professional wrestling.

00:46:30.000 Right.

00:46:30.000 Is that matches would last too long and then mostly nothing would happen and then somebody would be crippled for life.

00:46:36.000 Yeah.

00:46:38.000 Wasn't a good business model.

00:46:39.000 Yeah.

00:46:41.000 It's just we're at a weird time where people are pushing narratives and then other people are joining in because that narrative fits along with their ideology, even though they know there's some horseshit to what that narrative is.

00:46:58.000 A good example is, are you aware of that 65-year-old woman that got beaten up in New York City? 0.99

00:47:04.000 It's a sad story.

00:47:06.000 Because this guy, it's all caught on security camera.

00:47:09.000 There's this guy, he's kicking, he kicks this 65-year-old woman down and kicks her when she's down, stomps her, and just, it's horrific.

00:47:17.000 And there's these three guys, at least two guys, that are watching and they do nothing.

00:47:21.000 They're inside the building and they're watching.

00:47:23.000 Like this carjacking video where the guy's just filming and doing nothing.

00:47:27.000 Yeah, but anyway, this guy is kicking this woman while these two guys watch. 0.99

00:47:32.000 And then de Blasio goes on TV and he blames it on Trump.

00:47:37.000 He blames it on the White House and the current administration because it was an Asian woman. 1.00

00:47:42.000 But what it was...

00:47:44.000 Was a guy who was released from prison who had stabbed his mother to death.

00:47:49.000 So the guy was criminally insane.

00:47:52.000 And because of these liberal ideas about rehabilitation and murder, this guy had only done, I think he'd only done like 10 or 12 years in jail for stabbing his mom to death.

00:48:06.000 And so they let him go, and what does he do? 0.99

00:48:08.000 He finds some woman and kicks the shit out of her. 1.00

00:48:11.000 Now, here's where it gets weird. 1.00

00:48:12.000 Did he kick the shit out of her because she was Asian, because he was aware of the propaganda against Asian people that de Blasio believes was influenced by Donald Trump's portrayal of the virus as being the Chinese virus? 0.99

00:48:27.000 I don't know. 1.00

00:48:29.000 But the point is, the reason why that guy did that is because he's criminally insane.

00:48:34.000 It's not because of Donald Trump.

00:48:36.000 The reason why that guy did that is because he shouldn't have been on the street.

00:48:38.000 But they're forcing us to talk about it over and over.

00:48:42.000 The more we have to debunk this stuff, It's just a fire hose of debunkable stuff, and everything takes a half an hour to explain what somebody screwed up in four seconds.

00:48:52.000 But I think it's good to talk about.

00:48:53.000 I agree.

00:48:54.000 And then people realize, like, okay, why would he say that?

00:48:57.000 Well, because he's a bad mayor.

00:48:59.000 He's a bad mayor.

00:49:00.000 He's bad at his job.

00:49:01.000 You saw the video that he put out about how we have to bring back New York City with culture?

00:49:05.000 Did you see that? 0.99

00:49:06.000 You want to see the craziest fucking thing you've ever seen in your life? 1.00

00:49:10.000 Jamie, find that. 0.99

00:49:11.000 It's on my Twitter page.

00:49:12.000 It seems like a sketch from SNL back when SNL was funny.

00:49:18.000 SNL's still funny sometimes.

00:49:19.000 I shouldn't have said that.

00:49:21.000 It goes for periods where it is and then it isn't. 0.99

00:49:23.000 Well, it's hard to do 90 minutes of live shit every week. 0.94

00:49:27.000 But the point is, it seems like a sketch. 0.98

00:49:29.000 It seems like a parody.

00:49:31.000 Here's what it seems like. 1.00

00:49:32.000 It seems like a scene in a Coen Brothers movie where a mayor is out of his fucking mind. 0.99

00:49:37.000 Go full screen and give me some volume. 1.00

00:49:40.000 Because this is fucking completely crazy. 0.98

00:49:44.000 Watch this. 0.99

00:49:45.000 You're not going to believe this.

00:49:48.000 So, people just listening.

00:49:51.000 There's people dancing.

00:49:54.000 Completely out of sync.

00:49:56.000 And we're gonna do that.

00:49:57.000 We're gonna really bring back the heart and soul of New York City.

00:50:00.000 We need our arts and culture back, and we need people to see it and feel it, to participate in it, to know that that essence of New York City has not been defeated by the coronavirus, but will come back strong in 2021. Month after month in 2021, as you see the city come back to life,

00:50:17.000 culture will lead the way. 0.97

00:50:19.000 If you saw the video of this, you would know how fucking preposterous this is. 0.96

00:50:25.000 And then this guy is talking about they're doing... 0.98

00:50:27.000 I mean, they got the lispiest, most Hispanic gentleman they could find to speak about this, hashtag open culture.

00:50:36.000 And so listen to this music.

00:50:38.000 It's... 1.00

00:50:40.000 It's fucking terrible. 0.99

00:50:41.000 And what are these people doing? 1.00

00:50:42.000 What is this dance?

00:50:44.000 So they're spending money on this.

00:50:46.000 So the city's falling apart.

00:50:49.000 Restaurants are disappearing left and right.

00:50:51.000 Small businesses are disappearing left and right.

00:50:53.000 90% of all the moving trucks are going out of New York City.

00:50:57.000 And this is his solution to this.

00:51:00.000 Because these people don't have any respect for business.

00:51:03.000 They somehow or another think this money falls out of trees.

00:51:07.000 And that you just need to redistribute this money.

00:51:10.000 Because the rich people, they have too much of it.

00:51:12.000 So redistribute this money.

00:51:14.000 And the way we're going to redistribute it, we're going to open up culture.

00:51:16.000 We're going to bring back dance. 0.99

00:51:18.000 Like, what the fuck is that? 0.99

00:51:20.000 Like, what is that? 0.99

00:51:21.000 Imagine that you are the mayor of one of the biggest cities on planet Earth, and that's your solution.

00:51:28.000 Like, this is a big video that you put together, and you have these people dancing and doing all this...

00:51:33.000 It's so uncoordinated.

00:51:35.000 The music is so bad.

00:51:36.000 It seems like a sketch.

00:51:38.000 This is what you're dealing with. 0.99

00:51:40.000 And this is the same guy that was saying that Donald Trump was responsible for this criminally insane person who kicked the shit out of this poor old lady. 0.99

00:51:47.000 I can't. 0.99

00:51:49.000 I listen to this stuff, Joe, and I just despair.

00:51:54.000 I know what we're capable of.

00:51:56.000 I know how amazing we are as human beings.

00:52:00.000 And I watched this stuff.

00:52:02.000 Like, imagine you had Palobolis, right?

00:52:05.000 You ever seen Palobolis?

00:52:06.000 What's Palobolis?

00:52:07.000 Can I say this?

00:52:09.000 Yeah.

00:52:09.000 Jamie, pull that up.

00:52:11.000 Pull up Palopolis, Jamie.

00:52:14.000 Seems like an old Greek guy that I'm not aware of.

00:52:16.000 Yeah, one of the great dance philosophers of all time.

00:52:19.000 Palopolis?

00:52:20.000 Palopolis.

00:52:21.000 Jamie, you're not aware of it either?

00:52:22.000 Good, I don't feel any alone.

00:52:25.000 I know what you're saying, that it's terrible.

00:52:27.000 Even if you're going to make a wrong point...

00:52:30.000 You're in New York City.

00:52:31.000 How much great dance is there?

00:52:33.000 I've seen stuff on the subway using the poles and everything that's available that will blow my mind.

00:52:39.000 Guaranteed.

00:52:40.000 They could have had break dancers out there. 1.00

00:52:42.000 They could have had hip hop guys out there doing like stance elements guys.

00:52:45.000 And it would have been amazing.

00:52:48.000 What do you got?

00:52:48.000 You got something crazy?

00:52:49.000 Why smiling?

00:52:50.000 I'm not sure what I'm looking up.

00:52:53.000 Palabolous dance?

00:52:54.000 Okay.

00:52:54.000 That's all right.

00:52:55.000 Palabolous dance.

00:52:56.000 Is this Palabolous?

00:52:57.000 There he goes.

00:52:58.000 We are Palabolous.

00:53:02.000 Oh, wow.

00:53:03.000 Yeah, okay.

00:53:04.000 So these are talented dancers.

00:53:06.000 Yeah.

00:53:07.000 This is difficult.

00:53:08.000 Yeah, it's really...

00:53:09.000 Unbelievably difficult.

00:53:10.000 It's unbelievably gorgeous, beautiful, difficult.

00:53:12.000 Okay.

00:53:12.000 If you saw that as an example...

00:53:16.000 That can blow your mind very quickly.

00:53:19.000 Sure.

00:53:19.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:53:21.000 No, I'm not against dance.

00:53:23.000 I got your point.

00:53:25.000 But that thing was nonsense.

00:53:26.000 But here's what I think.

00:53:27.000 It's almost better when it's irrefutable. 0.99

00:53:31.000 When the nonsense like de Blasio's video or him saying that this guy who got out of jail recently for stabbing his mother to death, that the reason why he kicked the shit out of this Asian lady was because of Donald Trump. 0.99

00:53:41.000 This guy might not have even known Donald Trump was a thing. 0.95

00:53:44.000 Did you see my graph from Google Ngrams, which was diversity and inclusion usage versus most qualified?

00:53:53.000 And they cross in 2017, and most qualified is going down, and diversity and inclusion is going through the roof.

00:53:59.000 We can talk about this, but...

00:54:03.000 I want to know every cool thing that you know. 0.99

00:54:05.000 And this, it's just dumb. 1.00

00:54:08.000 It is just dumb. 1.00

00:54:09.000 And it's corroding my soul. 1.00

00:54:10.000 But it's happening.

00:54:11.000 I'm getting worse.

00:54:12.000 It's like playing tennis with people who can't play tennis. 0.96

00:54:15.000 Right.

00:54:15.000 And you used to be really good at tennis.

00:54:17.000 And now, when you fight people, do you want to fight people who suck? 0.98

00:54:20.000 No, you certainly don't. 0.99

00:54:21.000 You're going to get injured.

00:54:22.000 Well, worse than that, you're going to get a false sense of your abilities.

00:54:26.000 Right.

00:54:26.000 Yeah, and you're also going to degrade, like all sorts of bad things.

00:54:29.000 Jamie's got something else going on.

00:54:30.000 When I was looking this up, this is what I was seeing, that he blames the parole system.

00:54:34.000 State parole system.

00:54:35.000 Oh, well, he's right about that.

00:54:37.000 But what I saw him was saying that it was Donald Trump.

00:54:39.000 Am I incorrect here?

00:54:40.000 I tried to find even him blaming Trump for it and wasn't seeing that.

00:54:43.000 Well, he was blaming what happened in D.C. That's what he was saying.

00:54:47.000 And someone had a video exposing that it was not supposed to.

00:54:51.000 If that's true, he's correct here.

00:54:53.000 He blames the state parole system?

00:54:55.000 Well, then I take it back.

00:54:56.000 Because he's absolutely right with that.

00:54:57.000 There's no way that guy should have been let out.

00:54:59.000 Maybe he had one statement on it, and now today he's released a different one?

00:55:04.000 Because he wasn't standing in front of these flags like this.

00:55:06.000 It was a different scene, I believe.

00:55:08.000 And you saw that carjacking in D.C. I did.

00:55:12.000 I'll take this back then, because he's definitely correct.

00:55:14.000 There's no way that guy should have been on parole. 1.00

00:55:16.000 That guy murdered his fucking mother. 1.00

00:55:19.000 And then he attacked that lady in Midtown. 1.00

00:55:25.000 So maybe I'm wrong.

00:55:27.000 Maybe I got duped.

00:55:28.000 Because I watched a whole video where they were explaining what was...

00:55:31.000 I forget.

00:55:31.000 I don't even remember who was hosting the video.

00:55:34.000 But they were talking about how wrong his perspective is.

00:55:39.000 On that.

00:55:41.000 Hey.

00:55:42.000 But I did see the guy that got his car carjacked and then died.

00:55:46.000 I just despaired.

00:55:47.000 The fact that the girl... 0.99

00:55:49.000 That's not incorrect, I guess.

00:55:50.000 This is for an older thing, though.

00:55:52.000 This is from 2016, where he's blaming Trump and hate speech for rising hate crimes.

00:55:56.000 No, that was a different one.

00:55:58.000 Well, I don't think he necessarily said Trump.

00:56:00.000 He was just talking about...

00:56:03.000 I don't know.

00:56:04.000 I'm not sure.

00:56:04.000 But the point is, he's right.

00:56:07.000 He's right.

00:56:07.000 It is the parole system that did that.

00:56:09.000 But this carjacking...

00:56:13.000 My perspective on the carjacking is different because they're a 13-year-old and a 15-year-old kid.

00:56:19.000 They're children.

00:56:20.000 Can I freshen you?

00:56:21.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:56:22.000 I mean, you're talking about...

00:56:25.000 It's a really unfortunate situation where you have these young kids that stole this Uber driver's car and he tried to stop that from happening and wound up dying.

00:56:35.000 It's horrific.

00:56:36.000 If you've never seen the video, please don't watch it.

00:56:39.000 It's horrible.

00:56:40.000 Well, the hardest part for me is where the girl says my phone is in the car.

00:56:43.000 Yeah.

00:56:43.000 Dead.

00:57:01.000 No, it's awful.

00:57:02.000 It's certainly awful.

00:57:04.000 But I think...

00:57:20.000 I think this is different.

00:57:22.000 See, I'm not in any way exonerating those young girls who stole that car and killed that guy.

00:57:28.000 But I think the National Guard people that pulled up on the scene, I don't think they knew what happened.

00:57:33.000 I don't think they had any...

00:57:34.000 There's no way they could have known these girls stole that car.

00:57:35.000 It's a confusing situation.

00:57:37.000 This guy's dead.

00:57:38.000 The car's flipped over.

00:57:39.000 The girls are in shock.

00:57:40.000 Right.

00:57:40.000 The girls saying, where's my phone?

00:57:42.000 I know.

00:57:43.000 I don't blame the guard.

00:57:44.000 The guard guys probably are horrified once they realize that these girls had stole this guy's car.

00:57:50.000 And I don't...

00:57:51.000 If you're a 13-year-old kid and you steal a car and all of a sudden a guy's dead, you're probably...

00:57:57.000 Your whole life is probably like...

00:57:59.000 Yeah, but what I'm worried about is... 0.99

00:58:01.000 You probably have no idea what the fuck just happened. 0.87

00:58:03.000 I'm worried about something I'm calling video game mode. 0.97

00:58:06.000 Which is the more I stare at my screen and then I have to context switch between my screen and real life, my screen and real life.

00:58:12.000 The more real life feels like my screen, the more I can't tell the difference.

00:58:16.000 And it's not that I'm dumb.

00:58:18.000 It's that my evolutionary programming doesn't know anything about this screen. 0.77

00:58:22.000 I know what you're saying.

00:58:23.000 And my concern is, is that we don't feel our own life and our own interest anymore.

00:58:28.000 Like, we don't realize what we're doing.

00:58:31.000 We imagine that we are characters in a video game.

00:58:34.000 There's always a restart.

00:58:35.000 There's always some exploit that you can use to start again.

00:58:41.000 And I'm increasingly feeling like reality...

00:58:46.000 It's slipping away from us because the phone, it's a little bit like what happened with porn.

00:58:50.000 We thought that porn was going to habituate us to non-standard sexual practices, and to an extent it did.

00:58:56.000 But I don't think what we really understood is that it was going to rewire us so that it was very difficult to get aroused about anything because it changes your hedonic thresholds.

00:59:05.000 I think the same thing is true for real life versus the phone.

00:59:09.000 The phone is in some sense so much more intense for most people that that environment starts to blot out the feeling of being fully alive.

00:59:20.000 So you think that the reason why they were so desensitized...

00:59:25.000 I can't say that because it's shock.

00:59:26.000 It's a crazy situation.

00:59:28.000 It's the first few seconds.

00:59:29.000 Fog can be the explanation. 0.87

00:59:31.000 However, I increasingly see people...

00:59:34.000 Like the Capitol Hill thing on January 6th.

00:59:37.000 Very clearly that woman was, you know, dealing with a loaded pistol, right?

00:59:43.000 And you see the guy who's holding the gun take the finger and bring it inside the trigger guard and then he goes back out because he's like pointing it at her.

00:59:55.000 He understands what he's doing.

00:59:57.000 It's like, please don't advance.

00:59:59.000 And she has an idea that somehow she's protected because she's part of this romantic story in her own mind.

01:00:08.000 Yeah, I see what you're saying.

01:00:09.000 I really believe that the Viking and Trump and all of this stuff, people don't feel fully alive.

01:00:18.000 They don't realize that we are actually attacking the Capitol building of the United States of America.

01:00:22.000 That they didn't realize what they were doing while they were doing it.

01:00:25.000 I don't think that's true.

01:00:27.000 We're in a sort of live-action role-playing, and I believe that sometimes people probably go into combat that way.

01:00:33.000 Maybe.

01:00:34.000 I think those people genuinely thought that they were patriots, and I also think a lot of them are genuinely not bright.

01:00:43.000 There's a lot of those guys that I saw being interviewed where they were talking about why they were doing it.

01:00:48.000 I watched people snap out.

01:00:49.000 A lot of people were like, the moment that I realized I was too far in and then such and such.

01:00:54.000 You get caught up in the crowd.

01:00:55.000 You get caught up in the narrative.

01:00:57.000 But also I watched people, particularly that guy with the buffalo hat on that got interviewed. 1.00

01:01:01.000 That's a dumb guy. 1.00

01:01:03.000 He's a dumb guy who is good at stringing words together with QAnon themes. 1.00

01:01:10.000 The guy smiling with the podium, with the lectern. 1.00

01:01:12.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:01:13.000 There was a lot of that going on.

01:01:15.000 These are men, mostly.

01:01:18.000 There's a few women. 1.00

01:01:19.000 But men who are unexceptional, that think they're exceptional because they're tied into a thing that they believe is like a movement to free... 0.98

01:01:33.000 I think they just believe democracy is being served in some strange fucking way. 0.95

01:01:37.000 Look, there were two narratives. 0.98

01:01:39.000 There was a narrative called Stop the Steal and there was a narrative called Certify the Election.

01:01:43.000 And they avoided themselves as long as they possibly could.

01:01:47.000 And I was watching them and I did a tweet storm on January 4th because I could see January 6th was going to be the arc point. 0.93

01:01:53.000 Very often, when you say Twitter isn't real life, It really isn't up until it arcs, and then you get a spark across it, and then holy shit.

01:02:01.000 Then it becomes like real life. 0.72

01:02:02.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:02:02.000 It is real life, right?

01:02:03.000 And so there are these twin narrative problems where you've got these two incompatible worldviews and these stories, and they avoid each other, like two guys circling each other. 0.99

01:02:12.000 I'm going to fuck you up. 0.81

01:02:14.000 But both of them know that once we actually engage, it's pretty unpredictable what's about to happen. 0.99

01:02:20.000 That's what I think you could see coming for January 6th.

01:02:23.000 It had to happen that way in a weird way because the narratives had avoided each other for the maximal length of time because nobody wanted to have this out.

01:02:33.000 And then it was impossible to stop the two from arcing.

01:02:37.000 And the plates got too close together.

01:02:39.000 That's what I really believe.

01:02:40.000 I see what you're saying.

01:02:41.000 So what you're saying is that you think that there's two worlds that aren't communicating with each other, and both of them believe wholeheartedly in what they're doing without listening to whatever might be reasonable that's coming from the other side, and then they collide.

01:02:56.000 And there's no way of squaring the circle.

01:02:58.000 At some point, there will be a Donald Trump presidency or a Joe Biden presidency.

01:03:03.000 And once you realize that your story has collapsed, it's like a doomsday cult.

01:03:08.000 You say it's going to end on such and such a day, and then it doesn't.

01:03:12.000 And then what happens to the cult?

01:03:13.000 Because everybody had the same concept.

01:03:15.000 I think that if you listen to the audio from the Jim Jones, Jonestown Massacre, it's very clear that they got caught up in a story that they couldn't get out of.

01:03:24.000 That's what happens in all cults, right?

01:03:26.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:03:27.000 Exactly.

01:03:27.000 And the story becomes, the software that you're running, like there's this one woman named Hyacinth who hid under her bed and survived, you know?

01:03:40.000 Survived?

01:03:40.000 Jonestown.

01:03:41.000 Oh.

01:03:42.000 You know, her sister perished.

01:03:45.000 And somehow she ran a program that was different than the program, because you have the recordings.

01:03:52.000 People know that they're going to their death.

01:03:54.000 They know the software is telling them that this is the right thing.

01:03:58.000 It's a revolutionary suicide.

01:04:01.000 And I saw this with people, you know, I was trying to tell people, because I didn't believe the election was necessarily free and fair, but I also didn't believe that it was stolen in the way that Donald Trump was saying it was stolen.

01:04:13.000 I feel the exact same way.

01:04:14.000 Yeah.

01:04:15.000 So, you know, I was watching people who couldn't negotiate, they couldn't keep their footing.

01:04:21.000 They're also struggling to find the common ground with their team.

01:04:26.000 Exactly right.

01:04:26.000 I was going to say the same thing.

01:04:28.000 People who feel comfortable being alone are in a different situation than people who say, well, I have to pick a team constantly.

01:04:35.000 And the greatest thing that has ever happened to me is the ability to stand alone for some periods of time.

01:04:41.000 I do need a family.

01:04:42.000 I need To be a part of something, but there are times when there is no team that represents reality.

01:04:48.000 We all need people.

01:04:50.000 We all do.

01:04:51.000 I hate to admit it, but you're right.

01:04:52.000 Yeah, we all need loved ones and friends, and people don't operate well.

01:04:57.000 That's why when you're in prison, the worst thing they could do to you in prison is to leave you alone.

01:05:01.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:05:02.000 You're in a fucking cement building filled with rapists and murderers. 1.00

01:05:05.000 The worst shit they can do is leave you alone. 1.00

01:05:07.000 It's a really interesting point. 1.00

01:05:09.000 Strange.

01:05:09.000 Yeah.

01:05:09.000 We are very social animals, but the ones that can go the longest in solitude and just think by themselves, there's a great benefit to that.

01:05:22.000 I was forced into it because when I was a kid, we moved around a lot.

01:05:26.000 We moved when I was 7 to San Francisco.

01:05:29.000 When I was 11, we moved to Florida.

01:05:30.000 When I was 13, we moved to Boston.

01:05:32.000 I was forced to form my own opinions about things because I didn't have a steady group of friends where we all agreed on a certain narrative.

01:05:39.000 That's a real problem with people in this country, agreeing on a certain narrative where you know socially That you have a contract you have to uphold.

01:05:47.000 You're socially...

01:05:48.000 You're intertwined with this narrative.

01:05:52.000 And you can't think outside the box.

01:05:54.000 If you say, hey guys, I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

01:05:57.000 Let's look at this logically. 0.99

01:05:58.000 What the fuck is wrong with you? 0.99

01:06:00.000 And then you've got a real problem. 0.99

01:06:01.000 Because people want compliance.

01:06:04.000 This is what's going on with wokeness.

01:06:08.000 A lot of what wokeness is, is these...

01:06:14.000 Socially low-status people who are gaining power by enforcing this narrative and attacking people who don't enforce the narrative.

01:06:24.000 They're bullying people who don't enforce the narrative.

01:06:27.000 You know the phrase, hurt people hurt people?

01:06:31.000 Yeah.

01:06:31.000 All the time.

01:06:32.000 Well, people have been bullied.

01:06:33.000 They tend to bully people.

01:06:34.000 No kidding. 0.99

01:06:35.000 And a lot of fucking dorks when, you know, they've been pushed around in high school and college and socially they've been very awkward. 1.00

01:06:41.000 My God, they get on that goddamn computer and they attack. 1.00

01:06:44.000 And they love to attack. 1.00

01:06:46.000 Well, Tim Ferriss tried to do bigoteer and other people tried cry bullies.

01:06:50.000 What's a bigoteer?

01:06:51.000 Bigoteer is somebody who traffics.

01:06:53.000 That's what he called it?

01:06:53.000 Oh, that's a great phrase.

01:06:54.000 It's a great phrase.

01:06:55.000 Tim's good.

01:06:55.000 Yeah.

01:06:57.000 But cry bully is another one and hurt people hurt people. 1.00

01:07:00.000 All of these things get at this concept.

01:07:02.000 And I do think that this issue about what does it take to be alone for a long time?

01:07:08.000 And then the part of the problem is those of us who are very good at being alone for a long time can overstay.

01:07:14.000 You can overstay Bill and then you're, next thing you know, you're Ted Kaczynski.

01:07:17.000 Well, mathematician.

01:07:20.000 Yes.

01:07:21.000 Speaking of which, I asked you for this date, April 1st.

01:07:25.000 This is a favor to me.

01:07:26.000 Yeah, why?

01:07:29.000 I want you to have this.

01:07:30.000 What is this nonsense?

01:07:31.000 You give me a stack of papers.

01:07:33.000 You know I don't like reading.

01:07:34.000 You're not going to be able to read it.

01:07:36.000 Oh, this is your unity theory?

01:07:38.000 This is the first copy that got to version 1.0.

01:07:42.000 I want you to have it.

01:07:44.000 Listen, you lost me.

01:07:46.000 There's all these equations in here.

01:07:48.000 Jamie, take this and make something out of it.

01:07:52.000 What is this?

01:07:53.000 I believe, and this is the hardest part, How do you have time to do this while you're still in Clubhouse?

01:08:02.000 I'm not really in Clubhouse.

01:08:03.000 It's a bot.

01:08:05.000 That low-quality stuff, I push it.

01:08:09.000 This is...

01:08:11.000 Something that I've been uncomfortable about sharing.

01:08:13.000 I've been in what I call the ice cave for about 37 years.

01:08:17.000 And I shared a little bit of it in 2013. And I shared a little bit of it last year, April 1st.

01:08:22.000 And I am coming to grips with a story.

01:08:27.000 And in part, you don't know this, but you've been playing a large role in my thinking about this.

01:08:36.000 Well, that's a problem.

01:08:38.000 No, no.

01:08:39.000 I reviewed this weird episode of you at the store when you took a break for seven years.

01:08:46.000 And I looked at the courage that you had to have to do something unfunny in a funny context.

01:08:57.000 I think it was an incredibly difficult situation.

01:09:00.000 And I think I've been running from a similar situation my whole life.

01:09:04.000 I don't want to face certain unpleasant facts That are out of keeping with the joy that I feel, with the love, with the creativity that I feel.

01:09:13.000 And I don't want to let certain kinds of negativity take over my life.

01:09:19.000 And then I have this other thing, which is I legitimately believe that if we are not very careful, theoretical physics is coming to an end.

01:09:27.000 And I believe it is our only hope for getting outside the solar system.

01:09:30.000 When you have Elon on and he talks about Mars or bust and all this kind of stuff.

01:09:35.000 I cannot understand how mankind has gotten to the point where we are not spending our efforts trying to figure out how to spread out so that we don't self-extinguish on one, two, or three rocks.

01:09:48.000 It just doesn't make any sense to me.

01:09:50.000 And the best hope we have is to go beyond Einstein.

01:09:55.000 And we're losing the belief That we're capable of it.

01:10:01.000 We're so worried about the professional norms and humiliation and what's going to happen if we say something and what our colleagues are going to say and all of this stuff that we're self-censoring and we're silencing ourselves because we'd rather be in good standing on the Titanic than risk saying, 0.98

01:10:21.000 holy shit, we're in an iceberg field. 0.97

01:10:23.000 Let's think about how we're going to survive this. 1.00

01:10:27.000 I've been being a pussy about this. 0.99

01:10:29.000 Well, what is it? 0.99

01:10:30.000 Explain what it is.

01:10:31.000 What is this thing that you handed me?

01:10:35.000 What is this?

01:10:36.000 It is...

01:10:37.000 Okay, this is the hardest thing for me to say because I have to not hedge it.

01:10:40.000 I think it's the theory of everything.

01:10:42.000 And what do you mean by that?

01:10:47.000 There is a moment where you have to say this, I believe, about a radical departure.

01:10:53.000 And you don't want to say it because you want to hedge it.

01:10:56.000 It is...

01:10:58.000 Jamie, if you could bring that up.

01:11:00.000 And you go a little bit, maybe two pages in.

01:11:04.000 Is this available online so someone can peruse it?

01:11:07.000 In fact, okay, right there on the left...

01:11:13.000 Go down that table. 0.64

01:11:16.000 You see where it says X4? Yes.

01:11:19.000 X4 is four parameters.

01:11:21.000 It could be salty, sweet, sour, bitter.

01:11:25.000 It could be low, treble, medium, bass, and volume.

01:11:32.000 And the question that I took from Einstein was, can we generate the world?

01:11:40.000 Everything from something as innocuous is four parameters.

01:11:45.000 And if you think about a fertilized egg, somebody can hand you a picture of an embryo in in vitro fertilization.

01:11:50.000 You're like, well, that's your child-to-be. 0.99

01:11:52.000 You're like, get the fuck out. 0.98

01:11:54.000 Well, that fertilized egg somehow self-assembles into something that you cannot even imagine. 0.96

01:12:01.000 And that's a mystery.

01:12:02.000 The question is, in some sense, can four parameters Bootstrap itself.

01:12:09.000 Jamie, if you go to the first picture of the two hands, the Escher sketch.

01:12:15.000 Yeah.

01:12:16.000 Yeah.

01:12:18.000 That is this weird paradox.

01:12:21.000 Can a piece of paper effectively will two hands into drawing each other into existence?

01:12:27.000 That's what I believe makes the theory of everything so difficult.

01:12:31.000 I don't think it's the...

01:12:32.000 Wait a minute.

01:12:33.000 Piece of paper didn't will two hands into drawing themselves into existence.

01:12:39.000 The point is...

01:12:39.000 Someone had an idea.

01:12:40.000 M.C. Escher had an idea of what Douglas Hofstetter called a strange loop.

01:12:46.000 And it's a depiction of something that can't happen, but in some sense at least was conceived of as being able to happen.

01:12:57.000 And so that's what I tried to give you, which is I am scared to do this thing.

01:13:03.000 I've been avoiding this for...

01:13:04.000 Let me ask you this.

01:13:05.000 What's been the criticism of this?

01:13:08.000 Because people have criticized it, right?

01:13:10.000 In one year, I've seen one actual critique.

01:13:16.000 Only one?

01:13:17.000 Only one.

01:13:18.000 Is that because you haven't looked for other ones?

01:13:20.000 Nope.

01:13:20.000 I think two guys...

01:13:22.000 I think it's two guys. 0.72

01:13:24.000 One of them is anonymous, and I refuse to deal with an anonymous coward who critiques me.

01:13:31.000 Came up with three basic criticisms, and they'll have more because there'll be errors in this.

01:13:37.000 But two of the criticisms are inferential.

01:13:40.000 They imagine that I'm doing something that I'm not doing.

01:13:42.000 One of the criticisms is valid but it's something that I would have brought up anyway.

01:13:47.000 The most astounding thing about their so-called paper is that it shows that what I put out a year ago in a lecture on YouTube is understandable.

01:14:00.000 In other words, they got from the lecture what the basic setup of this theory is.

01:14:05.000 I want you to boil this down so that someone who doesn't understand physics at all will understand this in a way that they could maybe even explain to someone else.

01:14:15.000 Go to pullthatupjamie.com.

01:14:22.000 Try pullthatupjamie.com.

01:14:33.000 Okay.

01:14:34.000 Collection of videos in support of geometric unity. 0.76

01:14:38.000 Epic troll.

01:14:42.000 Who put that up?

01:14:45.000 Go to the bottom of this.

01:14:47.000 There is a team of people Brooke Dallas, Brandon Stone, Boku, a mysterious German who does amazing graphics, Tim, the mirthless swagman from Australia, Aardvark, and Nick, who have been, let's just go up to the top.

01:15:04.000 So, for example, dramatizing Einstein's, the greatest insight of the 20th century, arguably, click on the one on the left and blow it up.

01:15:28.000 Okay.

01:15:38.000 This is an Einsteinian metric for two dimensions.

01:15:41.000 You can have it.

01:15:42.000 He gave me something that looks like hedge clippers.

01:15:45.000 Well, it's two rulers.

01:15:46.000 There are hair ties on the two rulers and a protractor.

01:15:49.000 Okay.

01:15:50.000 Okay?

01:15:50.000 So there are three dimensions of ruler, two dimensions of ruler, and one dimension of protractor.

01:15:57.000 Okay.

01:15:57.000 Now, the idea is Einstein took curvature and fed it back into the space of rulers and protractors to say how the rulers and protractors would warp so that we can actually define gravity.

01:16:14.000 Now, that's...

01:16:16.000 That is a visual depiction of the Einstein field equations, which if I wrote them down would mean nothing to you.

01:16:22.000 Okay.

01:16:22.000 And the key point is that Einstein figured out you had to get rid of a component called the vial curvature and readjust the Ricci scalar to put it into the space of rulers and protractors, which I bought from Amazon, strangely enough.

01:16:34.000 And people, you see, I don't think in symbols.

01:16:37.000 I think in pictures.

01:16:39.000 Now, the insight of geometric unity, if you'll go zoom out, Is that if you do the smaller neck, like we had a huge bottle to get it into metrics.

01:16:54.000 There's another space.

01:16:55.000 People are listening to this, you know.

01:16:57.000 They're not just seeing it.

01:16:58.000 Very few people are seeing it.

01:16:59.000 Maybe like 30%.

01:17:01.000 Okay.

01:17:03.000 This is a problem.

01:17:04.000 This conversation's a problem.

01:17:06.000 Because people are tuning out right now, guaranteed.

01:17:10.000 Okay.

01:17:10.000 Well, if you go to pull that up, Jamie, look, there's no way in which I can talk about tensor analysis, curvature tensors, the theory of everything.

01:17:18.000 I understand, but I want you to boil this down.

01:17:19.000 You're not boiling it down at all.

01:17:21.000 Why did you do this, and what are you trying to accomplish with this?

01:17:24.000 Well, first of all, what I'm trying to do is to say, we don't have to talk about this.

01:17:29.000 This is just something I wanted to do on your show as a thank you, because you've been huge for me.

01:17:35.000 And the courage to take the slings and arrows that are going to come at me as I put this online, which is what I'm going to do today.

01:17:43.000 Today?

01:17:44.000 Yeah.

01:17:44.000 So this hasn't been online before?

01:17:46.000 Correct.

01:17:46.000 So the people that are going to do it in front of us, live?

01:17:49.000 Oh my goodness.

01:17:51.000 It's going down.

01:17:52.000 All right.

01:17:53.000 So this says launch GU. Boom.

01:17:56.000 People can now, and this is going to debut tomorrow because we don't release today.

01:18:01.000 But it's April Fool's, and they can download this as of tomorrow when they see this.

01:18:05.000 Okay.

01:18:06.000 And they can peruse it, and there are going to be all sorts of problems and errors, but it's a complete story of who we are, what this place is.

01:18:14.000 It's my guess.

01:18:15.000 The universe.

01:18:16.000 Life.

01:18:16.000 Everything.

01:18:17.000 Everything.

01:18:18.000 Everything.

01:18:18.000 What made you want to do this?

01:18:21.000 What made me want to study the problem?

01:18:23.000 Yeah.

01:18:24.000 Tell me, Joe, when you ask why as a kid, what happens if you keep asking?

01:18:31.000 You either end up in theoretical physics or an insane asylum, right?

01:18:35.000 Or you just keep asking questions.

01:18:37.000 No, no, you stopped somewhere.

01:18:38.000 You stopped somewhere.

01:18:40.000 If you don't end up in theoretical physics, it means you stopped at some point asking why.

01:18:46.000 And so I just didn't stop.

01:18:51.000 And the issue of, like, we are here and we're looking at all these crazy things you have arrayed in front of us.

01:18:59.000 These things are understandable, but they're locked in a system of symbols.

01:19:04.000 So if I put a page of this stuff in front of you, you may go as they say, my eyes glaze over.

01:19:10.000 Right?

01:19:11.000 So for example, the light in this room It's tied to something called a U1 principal bundle.

01:19:16.000 But you're not going to understand what a U1 principal bundle is.

01:19:19.000 However, I got your present.

01:19:22.000 What is that?

01:19:23.000 That is a U1 principal bundle.

01:19:26.000 It's a water wiggle. 0.95

01:19:28.000 But remember the time I showed you the hop vibration and you're like, what the fuck is that?

01:19:32.000 That was a U1 bundle over the two-dimensional sphere, which was the Earth.

01:19:36.000 This is a U1 bundle over the one-dimensional sphere, alias the circle.

01:19:40.000 And as you do that fidget toy, you're spinning that circle over and over again.

01:19:45.000 So this is an actual model. 0.99

01:19:59.000 I don't know what the fuck you just said. 0.99

01:20:01.000 How about that? 1.00

01:20:01.000 Okay. 1.00

01:20:02.000 Do you?

01:20:03.000 Do you know what he said?

01:20:06.000 Look, I can show you on video, but then we're not on video, right?

01:20:09.000 30% of the people are watching.

01:20:11.000 Maybe more at the end of the month.

01:20:13.000 But they can go to pullthatupjamie.com.

01:20:15.000 They can watch these videos.

01:20:17.000 And what I'm going to do over time is to show people visually without symbols.

01:20:24.000 In other words, if I say Ramanian metric, they're not going to know what I'm talking about.

01:20:28.000 If I hand them rulers and protractors and a video of it, I don't know about the symbols, but I can follow an actual concrete thing.

01:20:35.000 That thing, that water wiggle, the idea that that's a U1 principle bundle, that is one of the deepest things we only figured out in the 1970s that the light in this room comes from effectively seeing the world as having a water wiggle structure on top of it.

01:20:51.000 Now, I'm not expecting on this show...

01:20:54.000 I don't know what that means.

01:20:55.000 The light comes from having a water wiggle structure on top of it?

01:21:01.000 You can rotate these, right?

01:21:03.000 If I squish a water wiggle and it goes around, that is called a G-action.

01:21:10.000 G is the group of symmetries.

01:21:12.000 I'm taking the symmetries of a donut, and I'm playing with this thing, and it's going out of my hand.

01:21:17.000 Right.

01:21:18.000 This is the structure that gauge theories, which we've talked about before, which Lawrence Krauss has been on your problem.

01:21:25.000 What's a gauge theory, man?

01:21:26.000 It's just so mumbo-jumbo.

01:21:27.000 Yeah, he had a hard time describing it.

01:21:29.000 Okay.

01:21:29.000 If we spent an afternoon with a water wiggle, Or those videos, which we can't do because of your audience, I understand that.

01:21:37.000 You could understand what a gauge theory is because you'd never see a symbol.

01:21:40.000 There would never be a symbol between you and understanding why there's light in this room.

01:21:45.000 The light in this room comes from a water wiggle structure about a circle that nobody's ever seen that is at every point in space and time, which is one of the great discoveries that we've made that nobody seems to care about.

01:21:57.000 So how is it a water wiggle structure?

01:21:59.000 Because there's a circle At every point that we can't perceive...

01:22:04.000 Circle everywhere.

01:22:05.000 In space.

01:22:06.000 In space.

01:22:06.000 Above space.

01:22:07.000 That we can rotate.

01:22:08.000 A circle how big?

01:22:10.000 We don't know.

01:22:12.000 Okay, but this circle somehow or another does what?

01:22:14.000 Rotates.

01:22:15.000 Rotates.

01:22:15.000 And there is a four-dimensional cross-section.

01:22:19.000 Like, this is three dimensions here and one dimension of time because our conversation is progressing.

01:22:24.000 That's four dimensions.

01:22:26.000 That four dimensions...

01:22:28.000 It forms a cross-section to that water-wiggly structure that we didn't know about because it's invisible.

01:22:34.000 And that's what photons are all about.

01:22:36.000 And how do we know about that water-wiggly structure?

01:22:38.000 We know about that water wiggle structure because we wrote down the equations called Maxwell's equations that unified all sorts of things that have to do with photons.

01:22:48.000 Magnetism, electricity, x-rays, radio waves.

01:22:52.000 All of that stuff got subsumed into really one equation called Maxwell's equation.

01:23:00.000 That equation presupposes a circle out of nowhere.

01:23:04.000 We didn't know that there was a circle, but we wrote down equations and the equations told us, hey, numbnuts, there's a circle that rotates just the way this water wiggle rotates at every point in space-time that you can't see it because that's the only way those equations make sense.

01:23:19.000 Now you'll hear people, like you'll have Sean Carroll on, who want to talk about the multiverse, right?

01:23:23.000 Or Neil deGrasse Tyson will want to tell you how big the universe is.

01:23:27.000 And somehow people don't want to tell you, there's a circle around so we can see each other.

01:23:31.000 I don't know why.

01:23:32.000 It's not fascinating.

01:23:33.000 Well, it's very complicated, and even the way you're explaining it to me is not resonating.

01:23:37.000 Well, I can show it to you on a video, but I don't want to ruin the show.

01:23:41.000 So part of the problem is...

01:23:43.000 But I'm not sure that the video would even show it.

01:23:45.000 Do you understand what he's saying?

01:23:47.000 A little, but not really, no.

01:23:50.000 In essence, the photons that we see are the levels from which we measure a derivative, which is rise over run above a level.

01:24:00.000 The level that we see is the photon, in essence.

01:24:04.000 And the thing that we're differentiating is the electron.

01:24:07.000 So electrons are like functions.

01:24:11.000 And photons are like horizontal levels from which we measure rise over run to take the derivative.

01:24:16.000 And then the idea that we have partial differential equations is how photons zing off of me and hit your eye and we see each other.

01:24:23.000 That world of waves colliding, like everything in this place, is waves in collision with each other, waves interacting.

01:24:32.000 The story of us is the story of interacting waves and the waves obey partial differential equations.

01:24:39.000 So the fact that you have derivatives, which allow you to define the derivative in partial differential equations, differentials are derivatives, are determined by levels, which is on this page of videos we've made for you guys.

01:24:53.000 And those things allow you to define the equations for waves which we are.

01:25:00.000 So when you talk about the theory of everything, what you're actually saying is, tell me about a medium, waves in the medium, and rules for how waves behave moving around in the medium.

01:25:10.000 That's what a theory is.

01:25:12.000 Okay.

01:25:13.000 That's what this is.

01:25:14.000 It's a theory in which four dimensions births some elaborate crazy setup, which has interacting waves that look like electrons, up quarks, down quarks, protons, neutrons.

01:25:28.000 Gamma radiation, beta radiation, alpha particles.

01:25:32.000 That's the story of us. 0.82

01:25:34.000 And how did all that weird shit get into our world to form, like everything in here is made up of upquarks, downquarks, and electrons held together by force particles. 0.98

01:25:43.000 It's like an incredibly economical statement about, look at all the diverse shit here. 1.00

01:25:49.000 That's what this is about. 0.95

01:25:51.000 And what I believe is, is that we'll never have, we'll never take the time. 0.98

01:25:56.000 It's like, let's spend a day talking about this shit and do it at a blackboard and do it with videos. 0.92

01:26:01.000 Like we spent hundreds of hours making these videos to show you what these concepts are. 0.98

01:26:07.000 Now, I understand the constraints of the show and I'm totally fine with that.

01:26:11.000 But the point is, I believe that with artists and with imagination, we can actually show you What these structures are.

01:26:20.000 I can draw lines with pens and show you what a derivative is on a water wiggle.

01:26:25.000 And you can say, okay, you're doing calculus on a water wiggle, and there's a water wiggle-like structure in the world, which I never heard about, and that's what gives me light electromagnetism, all the stuff I know and love, that keeps electrons bound to protons and hydrogen atoms.

01:26:42.000 That weird world of waves interacting with each other according to derivative equations, where the derivatives are determined from levels called gauge potentials, is visualizable with videos that we've been making.

01:26:56.000 And the hope is that this is for experts, and they're going to have their day, and they're going to piss all over it, and they're going to be angry and mean, and that's going to happen.

01:27:05.000 But at the end of that process, hopefully, the ideas herein contained Could change the world.

01:27:12.000 It's the first time I've ever seen somebody tell a complete story about how did this place fill up with all this crazy stuff, assuming almost nothing to begin with.

01:27:22.000 It's like a fertilized egg hypothesis.

01:27:24.000 Show me a minimal amount I can assume and drag out falling in love on a park bench in early May.

01:27:33.000 That's how crazy the story has to be.

01:27:35.000 When you have a fertilized egg and it becomes your child, The story of development, of how something births itself, is what this is a story about.

01:27:45.000 And that literally can explain falling in love on a park bench in May?

01:27:49.000 We can't get there.

01:27:50.000 But if we're materialists, we believe that there's nothing other than protons, neutrons, electrons, gluons holding these things together.

01:27:59.000 Are you a materialist?

01:28:02.000 If I say this, I believe about this.

01:28:06.000 I have to wrestle with the problem that there's not a lot of room for magic.

01:28:13.000 But isn't magic subjective?

01:28:15.000 Isn't the idea of magic just our own personal experience?

01:28:18.000 Because everything is magic, if you've never experienced it, if it didn't exist.

01:28:23.000 You know, there was this guy, Paul Dirac, who's really Einstein's only rival in the 20th century.

01:28:29.000 And in 1963, he wrote this article in Scientific American where he said something insane.

01:28:36.000 And he said, Schrodinger was led into error because he put too much weight on the particulars of agreement with experiment with his equations.

01:28:45.000 And he was missing something called spin.

01:28:48.000 But the essence of his idea was so beautiful that if he'd embraced beauty rather than the scientific method, he would have gotten farther quicker.

01:28:58.000 And almost everyone who tries this crashes on the rocks.

01:29:02.000 Everybody who tries to throw away the scientific method in service of beauty Almost cracks up.

01:29:09.000 And the exception is the three guys who really wrote down physical laws that govern everything else that we know about the world.

01:29:17.000 But why do you have to throw out the scientific method in service of beauty?

01:29:21.000 Couldn't it just be a part of the equation of life itself?

01:29:25.000 It's a human.

01:29:25.000 And that it exists inside the experience of human beings?

01:29:29.000 Ultimately, humans can't throw out the scientific method.

01:29:31.000 Scientific method is the last word.

01:29:33.000 Right, but why would you in the service of beauty?

01:29:36.000 I don't understand why the two are mutually exclusive.

01:29:39.000 Because if I say something early, and there's the slightest problem with what I say, That is the instance of what I'm saying.

01:29:47.000 I have an idea, which is, you know, I've got it.

01:29:51.000 We're going to sell skulls to Native Americans, right? 1.00

01:29:56.000 Okay.

01:29:57.000 That's an instance of an idea.

01:29:58.000 Right.

01:29:59.000 The general idea might be, let's go into business and sell things.

01:30:02.000 Okay.

01:30:04.000 The initial instance of every great idea about the world...

01:30:08.000 has always been wrong.

01:30:11.000 Always?

01:30:12.000 Yeah, well I think, let's take the 20th century.

01:30:14.000 Start with 1900. Einstein gets it wrong initially.

01:30:19.000 His first equation is wrong.

01:30:22.000 Dirac, who gives us the equation for matter, so Einstein does gravity.

01:30:26.000 Dirac tells us that the proton and the electron Which are oppositely charged are antiparticles of each other. 1.00

01:30:32.000 And Heisenberg says, you're an idiot. 1.00

01:30:34.000 The proton is enormous. 1.00

01:30:36.000 The electron is tiny.

01:30:37.000 They'd have to be of the same mass.

01:30:40.000 Then Dirac gave us this theory of matter.

01:30:42.000 We couldn't compute with it for almost 20 years because everything blew up in our face.

01:30:46.000 These are the instances, the instantiations of great ideas.

01:30:50.000 The instances of great ideas are almost always flawed.

01:30:55.000 And Yang and Mills, who came up with the generalization of the light equation, Maxwell's equations, didn't have mass in their equation.

01:31:03.000 So they couldn't suppress something called beta decay, which is a kind of radioactivity.

01:31:08.000 And the world would be taken over by beta decay if you couldn't make certain particles massive.

01:31:12.000 Every time we try one of these things, our first few instantiations are usually wrong.

01:31:18.000 And what Dirac was giving us, and which we didn't understand, is he's saying...

01:31:25.000 At the beginning, don't take the training wheels off.

01:31:29.000 The training wheels are like beauty.

01:31:30.000 Look for internal coherence.

01:31:32.000 Look for some kinds of symmetry.

01:31:34.000 Look for some deep idea.

01:31:36.000 And don't immediately run to say, is there an error?

01:31:40.000 Is there an agreement with experiment?

01:31:43.000 Because those things will have to wait for the mature instantiation rather than the first instantiation.

01:31:47.000 Let me pause right here.

01:31:48.000 What do you mean by beauty?

01:31:50.000 What do you mean by magic?

01:31:54.000 These are subjective concepts that are only with human beings.

01:31:58.000 Dogs don't see beauty, or if they do, they don't express it.

01:32:02.000 Like, dogs don't see flowers and become perplexed.

01:32:05.000 They don't stare at a mountain and sit down and take a deep breath and sigh.

01:32:12.000 I don't, first of all, agree with that.

01:32:14.000 Dogs stare at the sky and sigh? 0.97

01:32:18.000 Dogs look at flowers and go, this is fucking amazing? 0.98

01:32:21.000 Certainly dogs are very focused on smell. 0.98

01:32:25.000 The olfactory sense of what is fascinating to a dog is not highly subjective.

01:32:30.000 Right, but we're talking about beauty, right?

01:32:31.000 Yes, I'm talking about beauty.

01:32:32.000 I'm talking about- Beautiful smells, is that what you're talking about?

01:32:34.000 Absolutely.

01:32:35.000 Okay.

01:32:36.000 I don't think we can imagine what a dog smells, right?

01:32:40.000 Because their sense of smell is- So far beyond.

01:32:42.000 Multitudes.

01:32:43.000 Absolutely.

01:32:43.000 Yeah.

01:32:44.000 I mean, they can smell cancer.

01:32:46.000 Dogs?

01:32:47.000 Yeah.

01:32:47.000 Well, okay, but if, for example- Right, but we're cutting hairs here.

01:32:50.000 What I'm saying is the human being's subjective experience of beauty is very unique to us.

01:32:55.000 You're going to say that, but if I go into any culture and I go- Ha, ha, ha.

01:33:02.000 Every culture has that interval.

01:33:05.000 Wise men say, oh, heave, oh.

01:33:10.000 Okay.

01:33:10.000 Okay, that is universal.

01:33:12.000 Okay, that's not beauty though, right?

01:33:13.000 No.

01:33:14.000 It's art.

01:33:15.000 It's a different thing.

01:33:16.000 We're talking about a different thing now.

01:33:17.000 When you let your vocal cord vibrate, implied in that thing, you may say I'm singing the note C, but you're not.

01:33:24.000 There's an entire chord called the overtone series.

01:33:28.000 And that sounds good to every culture because it's not about you or me.

01:33:33.000 It's about our throat.

01:33:34.000 It's about the one-dimensional nature of a vibrating column always produces that same every chord.

01:33:39.000 Well, music resonates specifically with human beings.

01:33:42.000 But can we agree that music is...

01:33:44.000 People are always going to want to say it's totally subjective.

01:33:47.000 It is.

01:33:48.000 It's not totally subjective.

01:33:49.000 How so?

01:33:50.000 Well, it's at least partially subjective.

01:33:53.000 It's partially subjective.

01:33:54.000 Some people don't like jazz at all.

01:33:56.000 That's true.

01:33:56.000 Some people live for it.

01:33:57.000 So it's subjective, right?

01:33:58.000 Some people hate rap music.

01:34:00.000 Some people love it.

01:34:01.000 Some people hate metal.

01:34:03.000 Some people love it.

01:34:04.000 Some people hate country.

01:34:05.000 Some people love it.

01:34:07.000 It's as subjective as taste in food.

01:34:12.000 No.

01:34:12.000 How so?

01:34:13.000 Well, first of all, your bitter response is in general protective of you.

01:34:18.000 Some people enjoy bitter foods.

01:34:20.000 I was going to say that you have to usually learn which foods are safe, and then you have an acquired taste.

01:34:27.000 Very often, bitter foods are acquired taste.

01:34:29.000 Culture has already figured out which foods are safe, for the most part.

01:34:32.000 But it's local.

01:34:34.000 You know that that thing, like if you were going to eat Cabrales cheese, which has maggots infested in it, if you come from Spain, you understand that Cabrales is safe. 0.95

01:34:42.000 So you call it a delicacy because it's some stupid stuff that you happen to have local information to know that it's safe. 0.96

01:34:49.000 This is Brett Weinstein 101. Sure, but even in Spain, there's people that find it detestable. 0.99

01:34:53.000 But my point to you is that what we are hiding behind the universals It is true that we all have subjective components, but it is not the case that you and I will have a conversation about a whole lot of love.

01:35:08.000 And we will have an idea, like, that is just the best song.

01:35:11.000 And you'll know that you have to say, okay, well, I understand that some people don't like it.

01:35:15.000 But then, when you get drunk, you're going to say, how can you not like Whole Lotta Love?

01:35:19.000 Yeah, but I mean, you would say that, but you know.

01:35:21.000 You say that, but you're joking.

01:35:23.000 Like, when I say, how can someone not like Elton John?

01:35:27.000 I get it.

01:35:28.000 I get that you don't like Elton John. 0.98

01:35:29.000 I fucking love Elton John. 0.98

01:35:31.000 But some people, they hear, Saturday night... 1.00

01:35:34.000 They don't want to hear that shit. 1.00

01:35:35.000 Stop, stop, stop. 1.00

01:35:36.000 Right.

01:35:36.000 They don't want to hear it.

01:35:37.000 They don't like Elton John.

01:35:38.000 It's subjective.

01:35:39.000 There is a non-subjective component to music.

01:35:43.000 You can focus on the fact that there's- What is non-subjective about it?

01:35:48.000 Well, I just told you.

01:35:49.000 But you're not correct.

01:35:51.000 If people don't like it, and some people do like it, that is the essence of subjectivity.

01:35:58.000 Do you remember what you said to me about Gary Clark Jr. when you introduced me to him at the store?

01:36:04.000 My personal opinion, probably?

01:36:06.000 You were talking personally. 1.00

01:36:07.000 It's one of the baddest motherfuckers alive? 0.99

01:36:08.000 You just said, this is the greatest guitarist. 1.00

01:36:10.000 Alive?

01:36:10.000 Yeah.

01:36:11.000 In my opinion.

01:36:12.000 That's my opinion.

01:36:12.000 You didn't say in my opinion.

01:36:13.000 Yeah, but that's my opinion, clearly.

01:36:15.000 And I don't necessarily think that he is necessarily the greatest guitarist alive.

01:36:18.000 To me.

01:36:19.000 When I listen...

01:36:20.000 But he's objectively...

01:36:22.000 If I listen to Numb, or I listen to Bright Lights...

01:36:24.000 He's objectively amazing?

01:36:25.000 Yes.

01:36:26.000 But it's not objectively.

01:36:28.000 Because some people don't think he's good at all.

01:36:29.000 They don't like that kind of sound.

01:36:32.000 Some people like weird sounds, man.

01:36:34.000 I don't necessarily love putting on Art Tatum as a pianist.

01:36:38.000 You cannot sit me down to watch Art Tatum and say, that is not amazing.

01:36:42.000 Okay, but if you don't enjoy it, it's subjective.

01:36:45.000 I may not enjoy it.

01:36:46.000 But it's subjective.

01:36:48.000 You might say that that is a guy who's very good at doing a thing that I don't enjoy doing.

01:36:52.000 Listen, man, you're splitting hairs.

01:36:54.000 You either enjoy something or you don't.

01:36:56.000 That is the essence of subjectivity.

01:36:58.000 You either think it's good or you don't.

01:37:03.000 Just because you know that some people enjoy it doesn't mean it's objective.

01:37:09.000 That it's great.

01:37:10.000 You don't enjoy it.

01:37:11.000 It doesn't have to be your thing.

01:37:12.000 The first thing is, can I recognize something?

01:37:14.000 Like the millennial whoop. 0.56

01:37:15.000 You know about the millennial whoop? 0.78

01:37:17.000 No.

01:37:18.000 This thing, 535, right?

01:37:21.000 There's this thing that all these millennial songs have in it.

01:37:24.000 Now, I don't necessarily enjoy that, but I can recognize it.

01:37:28.000 So the first step is, is it objectively recognizable?

01:37:32.000 Can I train myself- Right, you're talking about a sound that you know exists.

01:37:35.000 Okay.

01:37:35.000 But that doesn't mean you like it.

01:37:37.000 Okay.

01:37:38.000 So if you don't like it, it's subjective.

01:37:41.000 Right?

01:37:42.000 Just like food, just like movies, just like clothing.

01:37:45.000 There's a lot of things that people enjoy that other people don't enjoy.

01:37:48.000 Let me ask you a question.

01:37:49.000 Do you think statistically we just all had a high probability of thinking The Godfather was a great film?

01:37:57.000 I know that some people don't like that film.

01:37:58.000 They don't like violent pictures.

01:38:00.000 They don't like tension.

01:38:01.000 They don't like mafia.

01:38:01.000 They don't like the portrayal of Italian-Americans.

01:38:03.000 They don't like movies that are from that era.

01:38:06.000 Exactly.

01:38:06.000 Because they're slower.

01:38:07.000 I agree with that.

01:38:07.000 Yeah, okay.

01:38:08.000 But it's a subjective film.

01:38:10.000 It's not...

01:38:12.000 Joe, I have a different belief structure.

01:38:14.000 I believe that we're hiding behind subjectivity.

01:38:17.000 I believe that what we've figured out is that there's a subjective component to everything, okay?

01:38:22.000 And you're absolutely right about this.

01:38:24.000 But you're overcomplicating people's tastes, people's likes and dislikes.

01:38:30.000 They're real, right?

01:38:31.000 Some people like pop music.

01:38:33.000 Some people like Beethoven.

01:38:34.000 That is the nature of subjectivity.

01:38:39.000 What I'm trying to say is that what you were saying is true.

01:38:43.000 We have different likes.

01:38:44.000 Yes.

01:38:45.000 And that's a really far downstream process of can we recognize what's going on?

01:38:49.000 Okay.

01:38:50.000 What's our association with it?

01:38:52.000 If you were tortured to the most beautiful music in the world, you're probably not going to love it.

01:38:57.000 Right?

01:38:58.000 Sure.

01:38:58.000 If you watch Clockwork Orange and you got really screwed up about it.

01:39:01.000 Well, I think that's what they did to Manuel Noriega when they were trying to get him to leave Panama.

01:39:05.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:39:06.000 I remember that.

01:39:06.000 They played the same song over and over and over again.

01:39:09.000 It's probably a great song, too.

01:39:11.000 I'm sure.

01:39:12.000 The first 12,000 times you hear it.

01:39:15.000 But that's not what I'm trying to say.

01:39:17.000 What I'm trying to say is that there is a huge component about what we like and what we don't like that's subjective.

01:39:23.000 And there's a huge component about what we like and we don't like that's subjective.

01:39:29.000 We've all been taught the same move, which is back off claims of objectivity.

01:39:34.000 Every one of us.

01:39:35.000 Myself included.

01:39:36.000 Back off claims of objectivity?

01:39:38.000 I don't agree with that at all.

01:39:41.000 We've been told to back off claims of...

01:39:43.000 If I say to you, Charlie Parker is objectively one of the greatest jazz musicians of all time, You will have a negative reaction.

01:39:50.000 No, I won't.

01:39:51.000 In general?

01:39:52.000 No, no.

01:39:52.000 I've listened to Charlie Parker.

01:39:54.000 He's brilliant.

01:39:54.000 To you?

01:39:55.000 Yeah.

01:39:56.000 Okay, and somebody else doesn't like him.

01:39:58.000 Yeah, but you asked me.

01:39:59.000 You said I will have an objection to that.

01:40:01.000 I won't.

01:40:01.000 Okay.

01:40:02.000 That's not true.

01:40:03.000 So, who are the people that...

01:40:05.000 Now I'm really confused, because before I thought you were telling me...

01:40:08.000 That these things were subjective.

01:40:10.000 And what I'm trying to say is you are willing to accept these things.

01:40:14.000 No, you said me personally.

01:40:17.000 Okay.

01:40:17.000 So you personally believe that Charlie Parker is an objectively great jazz musician?

01:40:22.000 I believe, personally, Charlie Parker is a great jazz musician.

01:40:26.000 To you, I see.

01:40:27.000 So you objectively believe that you subjectively think...

01:40:30.000 The problem is we're conflating objectivity and subjectivity here.

01:40:37.000 We're getting into this weird area.

01:40:39.000 It's subjective whether or not I enjoy it.

01:40:43.000 Right?

01:40:44.000 I agree with that.

01:40:46.000 If you say, is this person really good at something that I have no interest in?

01:40:52.000 Like, are they a really good badminton player?

01:40:54.000 Right.

01:40:55.000 And I watch them, and they win.

01:40:56.000 I'm like, yeah, that guy's really good. 0.97

01:40:57.000 I don't give a fuck about badminton. 0.97

01:40:59.000 Right. 0.98

01:41:00.000 Right?

01:41:00.000 If badminton just vanished, I couldn't care less.

01:41:03.000 Yeah, but even there, I heard old basketball guys ask about Steph Curry.

01:41:06.000 Isn't he amazing?

01:41:07.000 Like, I don't know what he's doing.

01:41:08.000 He's doing a bunch of three-point shots.

01:41:10.000 I played in the paint.

01:41:11.000 That's basketball.

01:41:11.000 I don't know what he does.

01:41:12.000 This is not my game.

01:41:14.000 But you get that from fighting.

01:41:15.000 You get that from high jumping.

01:41:17.000 You get it from hard bat table tennis.

01:41:20.000 It's subjective.

01:41:23.000 I'm not sure who's making whose point now, objectively or subject.

01:41:28.000 It's subjective whether or not you like that style of basketball.

01:41:31.000 So we're in agreement.

01:41:32.000 Some people like brawls.

01:41:35.000 Some people like Floyd Mayweather because he's super technical and he's clever defensively.

01:41:40.000 I totally agree with this at the level of...

01:41:43.000 There's a whole bunch of process that happens and at the end you say, I like it, I don't like it.

01:41:47.000 Right.

01:41:48.000 And there's no way to tell because if you like something, I can make you hate it by associating it with something negative.

01:41:54.000 Well, let's look at the Webster definition of objectivity versus subjectivity.

01:41:59.000 Bring that up.

01:41:59.000 Let's pull that up.

01:42:01.000 The Webster definition of objectivity and the Webster definition of subjectivity. 0.98

01:42:07.000 And let's look at this and see if we're talking about the same fucking things here. 0.91

01:42:11.000 Because I think we're getting a little bit into the weeds here. 0.98

01:42:16.000 Here we go.

01:42:18.000 That's the Jamie Hum.

01:42:21.000 Build suspense.

01:42:22.000 What's that?

01:42:23.000 As I'm typing it in, there's a brown.edu dissertation about this.

01:42:29.000 No, just whatever.

01:42:30.000 Whatever the definition of objectivity.

01:42:34.000 See what we get.

01:42:37.000 Here we go.

01:42:39.000 Okay, here we go.

01:42:56.000 That's right.

01:43:01.000 Okay.

01:43:02.000 So, objective.

01:43:03.000 It's not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.

01:43:10.000 So you can say, objectively, someone is a very talented guitarist because you see how complicated their movements are and how they're hitting the strings.

01:43:21.000 But you could say, subjectively, I don't enjoy that music.

01:43:25.000 I agree with that.

01:43:26.000 Now, pull up subjective, just so we're clear about that.

01:43:32.000 Subjective definition.

01:43:34.000 Based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.

01:43:38.000 Yeah.

01:43:39.000 So personal feelings and opinions and how you feel about something is subjective.

01:43:44.000 Right.

01:43:45.000 But if I say to you, is Eddie Van Halen objectively a talented guitarist?

01:43:51.000 He's clearly a talented guitarist.

01:43:53.000 I didn't say clearly.

01:43:54.000 Yes.

01:43:55.000 I think objectively.

01:43:56.000 And somebody else says, in 2021, the next move in the conversation is, actually, I don't think he's a talented guitarist.

01:44:04.000 I've heard him.

01:44:05.000 I find talent is really about playing with feeling.

01:44:09.000 And all of these crazy moves and the tapping and the whines and the squeals, to me, that's not talent. 0.99

01:44:16.000 That motherfucker's never listened to Running With The Devil. 1.00

01:44:18.000 Now you're... 1.00

01:44:21.000 Play running with the devil.

01:44:22.000 You're on both sides of this. 0.99

01:44:23.000 Yeah, but running with the devil is like, the fucking movements and the way he plays guitar, he's clearly got amazing ability with the guitar. 0.99

01:44:35.000 Now, subjectively, you could say, I think that music's trash. 0.99

01:44:39.000 Somebody else is going to make the claim in 2021. I think you're on my side of the issue and you're still... 0.82

01:44:46.000 This is very interesting.

01:44:47.000 I think we're crossing over on both sides.

01:44:49.000 Okay.

01:44:49.000 I think what you're now saying is expressing the tension of our moment.

01:44:54.000 The tension of our moment is that as soon as somebody says that something is objective...

01:44:59.000 Somebody will say, actually, to me, your definition of that isn't how I define it, and therefore I reclaim the subjectivity of it.

01:45:07.000 I can turn Andrei Segovia or Eddie Van Halen or Jimmy Page or any of these people into not a good guitarist by redefining what a talented guitarist is.

01:45:18.000 Is if I redefine the concept of talent on a guitar and I say talent on a guitar is somebody who can convince me of emotions that they're playing with and I didn't feel anything.

01:45:29.000 Maybe the problem is the word talent.

01:45:31.000 Exactly.

01:45:31.000 You say if someone is objectively proficient about the guitar.

01:45:37.000 Is Jimi Hendrix proficient?

01:45:41.000 He was incredibly sloppy in a weird way.

01:45:43.000 His timing actually varies.

01:45:45.000 It's not incredibly rigorous.

01:45:48.000 But the end result was subjectively amazing.

01:45:53.000 I know people who say, what is this noise? 0.99

01:45:56.000 Who the fuck are those people? 0.99

01:45:58.000 Not that he couldn't, but what if he couldn't read music? 1.00

01:46:01.000 Does that make it any less...

01:46:03.000 Well, no, no, no.

01:46:03.000 I don't think Joe and I would polarize on that.

01:46:05.000 I'm just saying, like, if you're throwing him into another situation, he'd be like, okay, play with these guys, and then he can't.

01:46:09.000 Well, I think then, academically, he wouldn't be as proficient, like, in terms of, like, if he had to write the music down and teach it, maybe.

01:46:16.000 I think if you took somebody like, do you know who Guthrie Govan is?

01:46:19.000 No.

01:46:19.000 Guthrie Govan is arguably the great guitarist of our age, and one of his tricks is you tell him a guitarist and he will play in that person's style in and of what he does on his own.

01:46:31.000 Really?

01:46:31.000 Yeah.

01:46:32.000 So effectively, he can mimic anyone's style.

01:46:35.000 So he has a proficiency of technique.

01:46:38.000 That's the whole point.

01:46:39.000 If anyone is a good guitarist, Guthrie Govan can represent that person's guitar in a way that if you were blindfolded, You would say, boy, B.B. King is having a great day.

01:46:48.000 Okay, I see what you're saying.

01:46:49.000 And so that would be a proof that Guthrie Govan is, like it's a Turing test basically, that Guthrie Govan can emulate any guitarist.

01:46:58.000 So if you believe anyone is objectively talented, then Guthrie Govan is objectively talented.

01:47:03.000 That's the thing about guitar, is that it is an instrument with six strings, but people can make radically different noises with those six strings.

01:47:14.000 Tosin Abbas's is not six-string.

01:47:16.000 Narciso Yep's is not six-string.

01:47:17.000 Even that...

01:47:18.000 Okay, yeah.

01:47:19.000 I'm just trying to say...

01:47:20.000 We can also do those double guitars and some of those wacky rock and roll guys do.

01:47:24.000 I know.

01:47:25.000 Those are always sort of dorky and sort of cool.

01:47:27.000 What are those?

01:47:28.000 What's that called?

01:47:29.000 The double guitar?

01:47:30.000 Yeah.

01:47:30.000 Well, usually it's a 12-string and a 6-string so that you get these sort of resonant...

01:47:35.000 So it's 18 total.

01:47:36.000 So which one's 12?

01:47:38.000 And I don't think all of the strings are doubled on a 12-string, so I think it's only some.

01:47:43.000 I'm not exactly sure.

01:47:44.000 But those things are based on the idea that you're trying not to switch guitars in the middle of a song when you're trying to do two things.

01:47:51.000 Or Stanley Jordan will tap on two guitars simultaneously with his fingers as if he's playing the piano, which is insane.

01:48:02.000 Well, Hendrix used to play Star Spangled Banner with his teeth.

01:48:05.000 Yeah.

01:48:07.000 Yeah, nobody teaches you that.

01:48:10.000 Who used to do that?

01:48:12.000 I mean, maybe someone will teach you that after he did it.

01:48:14.000 Have you seen that movie August Rush?

01:48:15.000 No.

01:48:16.000 Robin Williams is in it.

01:48:17.000 It's about a little kid, proficient, whatever, but it doesn't matter.

01:48:20.000 The style of guitar he's playing, he's slapping the guitar.

01:48:22.000 It's tuned in in a very strange way.

01:48:24.000 It's hard to recreate, but he's doing these, like what he's saying, he's like tapping on a piano.

01:48:30.000 I'll show you what he's doing.

01:48:30.000 The kid's acting, but someone was actually playing it.

01:48:33.000 It's not guitar playing like you're used to seeing.

01:48:36.000 Put it up, put it up.

01:48:37.000 Never heard of it.

01:48:38.000 Yeah, I mean, that's a different thing, right?

01:48:41.000 You can, like, there's people, like Gary Clark is a perfect example.

01:48:44.000 Like I said, like Gary Clark, I'm pretty sure I played this for you, when Suzanne Santo and Gary Clark and Ben Jaffe were, they did this show in downtown LA and they played Midnight Rider.

01:48:57.000 Yeah.

01:48:58.000 And Gary Clark attached his sound to To that classic Allman Brothers song, Midnight Rider. 0.98

01:49:05.000 And it was fucking amazing. 0.98

01:49:06.000 Because you could clear. 0.98

01:49:07.000 If you just tuned into it, you go, oh, that's Gary Clark.

01:49:11.000 There's a style of sound that Gary creates that's uniquely him.

01:49:18.000 Stevie Ray Vaughan is another example.

01:49:20.000 There's a style of sound that Stevie Ray Vaughan created that was uniquely him.

01:49:24.000 This little clip, this kid's finding out how to play a guitar.

01:49:27.000 This is a little too much.

01:49:29.000 It's like movie magic, but this is what I'm talking about.

01:49:32.000 He's not strumming it like you're used to seeing or hearing.

01:49:35.000 He's almost playing the bongos.

01:49:37.000 Using the reverb of the room, adding into what he's doing.

01:49:43.000 Oh, that's pretty badass.

01:49:45.000 This is called August Rush.

01:49:47.000 Yeah, this movie.

01:49:47.000 It's an interesting movie.

01:49:49.000 Watch it if you want to.

01:49:50.000 It's been out for a while.

01:49:57.000 Just a very strange thing you're doing.

01:50:00.000 Robin Williams is one of those guys that when I see him I get sad.

01:50:03.000 Yeah.

01:50:04.000 It's a very good movie he's acting in that people if you didn't know it was in it.

01:50:08.000 I met him once.

01:50:09.000 It's the weirdest story.

01:50:11.000 Unfortunately, I've told it already, so forgive me if you've heard this.

01:50:14.000 But I was at the Improv.

01:50:15.000 I did a show at the Improv.

01:50:16.000 Then afterwards, there was a line of people taking pictures of people saying hi after the show.

01:50:21.000 And this dude with glasses and this thick white beard and baseball hat was in line.

01:50:27.000 And he was telling me how great the show was.

01:50:29.000 He really enjoyed it.

01:50:30.000 He talked to me about specific bits.

01:50:32.000 I'm like, oh, thank you.

01:50:33.000 Thanks, man.

01:50:34.000 I really appreciate it.

01:50:35.000 Glad you enjoyed it. 0.96

01:50:35.000 And then in the middle of talking to this guy, I go, Holy shit, this is Robin Williams. 0.96

01:50:40.000 Fuck you. 1.00

01:50:41.000 He was just in line. 1.00

01:50:42.000 I didn't even know it was him. 0.89

01:50:43.000 He had this crazy white beard.

01:50:45.000 I didn't know it was him.

01:50:46.000 I had no idea it was him until in the middle of talking, I realized it was him.

01:50:51.000 He waited in line by himself.

01:50:53.000 There was all these people.

01:50:54.000 No one noticed it was him.

01:50:56.000 What a compliment to you, sir.

01:50:58.000 It was wild.

01:50:59.000 It was really weird.

01:51:00.000 It was right before I did Triggered.

01:51:02.000 It was like I was tightening up my act.

01:51:04.000 It was like getting...

01:51:05.000 I was getting everything together.

01:51:07.000 I think it was around then.

01:51:08.000 I'm pretty sure it was in that.

01:51:10.000 But it was...

01:51:10.000 I was in the middle of about to do a special.

01:51:12.000 So everything was very tight.

01:51:14.000 And I remember seeing him going...

01:51:17.000 In the middle of the conversation going... 1.00

01:51:19.000 Holy shit! 1.00

01:51:21.000 This is Robin Williams. 0.99

01:51:22.000 I saw him when I was in like high school.

01:51:25.000 In an L.A. comedy club.

01:51:27.000 The Improv.

01:51:28.000 And...

01:51:33.000 There were two guys in LA, I can't remember the other guy, who, the thing about them was that you were just convinced that their brains were 12,000 times faster than anybody else you'd ever met.

01:51:46.000 Like that they were just in a weird way smarter.

01:51:50.000 And Robin Williams' Free Association, it was like being on a Nantucket sleigh ride of the mind, and comedy was how it expressed itself, but it wasn't about comedy.

01:52:04.000 It was about just like having thoughts interact with each other and you had to justify them by turning every thought into a joke that's influencing every other thought.

01:52:13.000 It was like almost like excusing madness that was purposeful and pointful and amazing to watch.

01:52:21.000 Unfortunately, he repurposed some other people's material.

01:52:23.000 Oh, is that right?

01:52:24.000 Yeah, he was known for that.

01:52:26.000 And I think that was part of the manic nature of this style was that sometimes he would come across a subject because he was freeballing and he would just use material that he knew of.

01:52:38.000 Well, my guess is that the speeds he was at, he probably couldn't slow down to ask, where did that thought come from?

01:52:44.000 Maybe.

01:52:45.000 Okay.

01:52:45.000 Or maybe the ends justified the means, and then what he really was doing was just trying to put on the best performance that he could, and he had this idea that he knew wasn't necessarily his.

01:52:54.000 He cut checks to a lot of people.

01:52:57.000 There was a lot of issues.

01:52:59.000 I know Kinnison and him had a big squabble because of it, and I'm pretty sure he cut a check for Kinnison, and he cut checks for other guys that were at the store.

01:53:06.000 Because he had to, not because he...

01:53:08.000 Do the material on TV. So let me ask you a question about this.

01:53:11.000 I guess I was reviewing that night in your life, and I was looking at the fact that it wasn't that funny when you went up and you said what had to be said.

01:53:22.000 And...

01:53:23.000 I think about comics...

01:53:24.000 That dined at the comedy store when I left.

01:53:26.000 Yeah.

01:53:26.000 And it was painful for me to watch in a way because it was both...

01:53:30.000 Courageous, but that's you know that that was a weird situation where I was called back on stage by Carlos Mencia That wasn't there wasn't like I know I made a statement.

01:53:41.000 I had already done my set I already didn't stand up and then I went back because he called me out That you know like the me leaving the Comedy Store was not even my idea.

01:53:54.000 It was like they banned me and In the story, didn't you...

01:53:59.000 No, I don't think so, Joe.

01:54:01.000 I think at some level, you threw your hat into the ring, and you almost certainly knew.

01:54:08.000 They said, why don't you take a break or take some time off or some soft... 0.86

01:54:12.000 Yes, and then I said, there's no fucking way I'm going to do that. 0.93

01:54:14.000 I'll never come back. 0.93

01:54:16.000 I think what you did is you obligated yourself into a role...

01:54:20.000 Where you actually had to stand up for something.

01:54:22.000 And the thing that I'm wrestling with, because I reviewed this whole story a few times, is this question about, like I look at your energy, and you're such a positive person in my life.

01:54:33.000 And I look at that energy, and you were trying to take care of somebody like Ari.

01:54:38.000 It wasn't just Aria.

01:54:40.000 It was creativity in general.

01:54:43.000 It was the concept that there was a guy who was more successful than everybody else who would just suck up everybody else's material and profit off of it.

01:54:50.000 It was also that nobody else was saying.

01:54:51.000 It was also that they knew it was happening.

01:54:54.000 Everybody was talking about it and there was a silence. 0.99

01:54:56.000 Bill Burr told me a story where he was performing there and he said to the guy that was a manager, the guy that I had the issue with, he said, fuck, I don't want to go on stage. 0.99

01:55:07.000 Fucking Carlos is here. 0.99

01:55:08.000 He goes, oh, don't worry, he doesn't steal from guys like you. 1.00

01:55:12.000 He only steals from the younger guys. 1.00

01:55:13.000 And he goes, what the fuck did you just say? 0.99

01:55:14.000 So you know he steals from the younger guys? 0.99

01:55:17.000 He goes, that's not what I said. 1.00

01:55:18.000 He goes, that's what you just fucking said. 0.99

01:55:19.000 It's exactly what you just said. 0.99

01:55:21.000 And it doesn't feel that way.

01:55:22.000 That's the thing.

01:55:24.000 You know what, man?

01:55:25.000 It was a time before accountability with the internet.

01:55:28.000 The internet came along.

01:55:29.000 And by the time that, when that instance happened, people recognized, oh, there's legitimate accountability for doing things along those lines.

01:55:41.000 This is from 1964. Obama has passed his general exams which indicates that on academic grounds he is entitled to stay around here and write his thesis.

01:56:09.000 However, they are going to try to cook something up to ease him out.

01:56:18.000 All three, that is all three Harvard people, will have to agree on this, however.

01:56:22.000 They are planning on telling him that they will not give him any money and that he had better return to Kenya and prepare his thesis at home, which means he will never get his PhD.

01:56:32.000 Remember when they said, take a break to you?

01:56:34.000 This is my alma mater.

01:56:39.000 This is the thing I've been, you know, there's this whole story about what happened in my early life and why I don't talk about it publicly.

01:56:46.000 And this is why this is interacting with your story about joke thievery, because it's weird for a comic not to turn that into a joke.

01:56:53.000 And it wasn't funny to you.

01:56:57.000 In around, I don't know, 1988, 1989, Harvard University told me, to remain in good standing in this program, you cannot live in Massachusetts.

01:57:09.000 Why?

01:57:10.000 And I said, what?

01:57:12.000 How can you tell me where I can live and where I can't live?

01:57:17.000 It wasn't until somebody FOIA'd Barack Obama's father in his file, and I read the story, that I realized that Harvard has a program for how it gets rid of people it wants to get rid of who are in good standing.

01:57:34.000 It makes them move.

01:57:35.000 It makes them move so that they can't complete their thesis.

01:57:38.000 Why did they want to do that with you?

01:57:41.000 Probably because I'm as learning disabled as the day is long.

01:57:44.000 Probably because I took an unpopular stance that the equations that people were working with called the Donaldson theory self-dual equations were not the right equations to be working with and that we had somehow been assuming that they were highly peculiar to dimension four and that The difficulty of the equations,

01:58:03.000 which was what was giving us all these great results, I had effectively gotten on the wrong side.

01:58:07.000 I proposed some equations that I was told were insufficiently nonlinear, never mind what that means, that in 1994, effectively the same equations took over the entire field.

01:58:21.000 Whatever it was, and this is like part of the idea of reclaiming your own story, It was so crazy that a university would tell me what state I could live in.

01:58:33.000 Can I stop you there?

01:58:35.000 So the people that are telling you this, they're operating on a pre-existing solution to deal with people that they find undesirable or problematic.

01:58:46.000 If you fall afoul of them...

01:58:48.000 Right.

01:58:49.000 So it's written somewhere or something?

01:58:51.000 I don't know.

01:58:52.000 Or it's like people maintain, for example, one way of...

01:58:57.000 Getting rid of a tenured professor that's known is that you ask the person to report on their research and you load them up with teaching and you give them a lousy office.

01:59:07.000 And then eventually they'll just quit because you make their life hell.

01:59:11.000 So people know that there are these kind of secret, quiet ways to do the undoable.

01:59:15.000 Can I ask you this?

01:59:16.000 What did you think about Cornel West being denied tenure from Harvard?

01:59:20.000 First of all, I thought, I assumed he already had it.

01:59:25.000 I mean, Cornel West is this loved intellectual.

01:59:30.000 When I found out they denied him tenure, I was like, what?

01:59:37.000 How do you deny Cornel West tenure?

01:59:40.000 Like, what is that?

01:59:41.000 What did you think about that?

01:59:43.000 I, first of all, am not knowledgeable in that area.

01:59:46.000 I think of him as a very bright superstar of some sort of part academic, part social crossover, high impact human being.

01:59:57.000 I was there when Larry Summers was president of Harvard, when he went out and said, effectively, too many people are using the Harvard label.

02:00:08.000 And we're going to be reining it in and going back to hard rigor and basics.

02:00:14.000 Let me tell you what people don't understand about Harvard.

02:00:17.000 Harvard is two separate structures fused together.

02:00:20.000 One is about power and one is about achievement.

02:00:23.000 And the two of them are interlinked in a way that cannot be separated.

02:00:29.000 Without the achievement, Harvard wouldn't have this kind of glowing reputation that causes us to sort of ooh and ah over it historically.

02:00:38.000 Right.

02:00:39.000 Without the power, it wouldn't be able to attract the money and it wouldn't be able to constantly position itself.

02:00:46.000 So through achievement, It gets enough cachet to wield power.

02:00:51.000 Through the power, it gets the resources to buy achievement.

02:00:54.000 And this sort of thing is not understood.

02:00:56.000 And I've been on both sides of this thing.

02:01:00.000 Like, one of the things that happened was that the Boskin Commission in 1996 tried to figure out how to cut Social Security and raise taxes without getting caught.

02:01:13.000 Because that's the third rail of politics.

02:01:16.000 And what they said is, if we change the CPI, the Consumer Price Index, the way we measure inflation, because tax brackets are indexed and because entitlement payments for Social Security and Medicare are indexed, if we claim that inflation is overstated by 1.1 percentage points,

02:01:34.000 we will gain a trillion dollars in savings.

02:01:38.000 And the public won't be able to object to it because we're going to be just adjusting a dial.

02:01:43.000 We're going to say that this dial was broken and we got some technocrats to fix it.

02:01:48.000 So they figured out we want to get a trillion dollars over 10 years.

02:01:51.000 They backed out.

02:01:52.000 That would require 1.1% overstatement.

02:01:55.000 They broke into two teams.

02:01:56.000 One team came up with 0.5.

02:01:58.000 One team came up with 0.6.

02:02:00.000 0.5 plus 0.6 equals 1.1.

02:02:03.000 Totally fictitious.

02:02:05.000 They got a proposal for a trillion dollars that they were going to steal, effectively, from Social Security.

02:02:12.000 And they described this action publicly?

02:02:16.000 Robert Gordon, who was one of the five Boskin commissioners, Jamie, could you bring up something called Boskin Wild vs.

02:02:25.000 Mild?

02:02:27.000 They brag about these things.

02:02:29.000 Power wants to explain just how powerful it is.

02:02:35.000 And you remember the scene in the big short where they're talking to these guys in Florida and saying, why are they confessing?

02:02:41.000 And somebody says, they're not confessing, they're bragging.

02:02:43.000 It's a question of what are you proud that you're able to do?

02:02:48.000 So, until Robert Gordon...

02:02:51.000 Did this PowerPoint presentation.

02:02:54.000 We did not understand what happened to the work that I did with my wife in economics, which is that we were trying to show how you could actually compute the Consumer Price Index objectively using gauge theory.

02:03:07.000 The same year, they were trying to figure out how do we steal a trillion dollars over 10 years by doing funny games with the gauge called inflation.

02:03:19.000 Do you find the wild versus the mild?

02:03:21.000 Yeah, I did.

02:03:21.000 It's just loading a PDF and it's like taking me...

02:03:23.000 I bailed.

02:03:25.000 So this thing...

02:03:26.000 Perfect.

02:03:27.000 If you go to...

02:03:29.000 Go about five or six slides in.

02:03:37.000 We'll see how that works.

02:03:38.000 Okay.

02:03:41.000 One, two, three.

02:03:43.000 Keep going.

02:03:44.000 All right.

02:03:45.000 Let me find the word somehow.

02:03:47.000 Keep going?

02:03:49.000 Okay, Dale said 1.1% implies 1 trillion in Social Security savings over 10 years.

02:03:55.000 Somehow, our separate efforts came up with the 1.1% bias number.

02:04:01.000 In other words, They came up with the target, which is, let's save a trillion dollars.

02:04:08.000 And then they came up with, we have to say it's overstated by 1.1.

02:04:12.000 We then broke into two groups and somehow, key word, we put the numbers together and we got the target.

02:04:19.000 This is academic malpractice in the absolute extreme.

02:04:24.000 When Harvard was doing that, it was acting in its power capacity.

02:04:27.000 And the way they did it was they buried What I think is probably the best work in 25 to 50 years in mathematical economics that happened in the Harvard Economics Department, which is a second so-called marginal revolution where we changed the calculus underneath all of economic theory.

02:04:45.000 So how does something like this happen?

02:04:47.000 Is there a concerted effort?

02:04:49.000 Did they get together and they have this idea this is how we're going to do it?

02:04:52.000 There's a five-person commission behind closed doors That meets at the cousin's house of somebody on the commission in Florida.

02:05:00.000 And in another presentation... 1.00

02:05:02.000 Fucking Florida. 1.00

02:05:03.000 Florida man. 1.00

02:05:06.000 In another presentation they say, we solved this at the kitchen table of my cousin's house in Florida.

02:05:12.000 And you're just thinking like, Okay, so it's five guys, Bob Packwood and Daniel Patrick Moynihan, a Democrat and a Republican, got together, picked five economists who were willing to play the dirty game.

02:05:24.000 The dirty game broke into two teams. 0.80

02:05:26.000 They knew exactly what they had to do.

02:05:28.000 They found the results to put them together, to put in front of Congress, to put in front of the National Academy.

02:05:34.000 And were they ever held accountable for this?

02:05:36.000 No.

02:05:36.000 There's an entire book called The Physics of Wall Street, in which my wife and I are Chapter 10 and the epilogue.

02:05:44.000 Which it talks about, they made Weinstein and Milani go away.

02:05:48.000 Right?

02:05:48.000 So what I'm trying to talk to you about is, like, this experience for me.

02:05:54.000 I've never talked about this with anyone.

02:05:56.000 I've never...

02:05:57.000 I mean, I've talked to tons of people privately.

02:06:00.000 This is going to go out into the world.

02:06:02.000 I was...

02:06:03.000 You know this question, like, what has Eric Weinstein ever done?

02:06:06.000 I did...

02:06:08.000 That.

02:06:08.000 I did the marginal revolution using gauge theory.

02:06:11.000 No, no, no.

02:06:12.000 That question is Tim Dillon joking around.

02:06:14.000 Yeah, I know.

02:06:15.000 He never created the Rotato.

02:06:17.000 He was just joking. 0.99

02:06:19.000 He was fucking around. 0.99

02:06:20.000 That was the funny part about it. 1.00

02:06:21.000 He was joking.

02:06:22.000 But he's saying that because he knows you're brilliant.

02:06:25.000 I love him too.

02:06:25.000 Do you understand the only reason why he can say that?

02:06:27.000 If you were a loser, he couldn't say that. 0.96

02:06:29.000 Joe, you don't need to make me feel good about myself. 0.99

02:06:31.000 I know, but you brought it up again.

02:06:32.000 No, I'm saying something completely different.

02:06:34.000 Okay.

02:06:35.000 Okay.

02:06:36.000 I actually have been scared of this question.

02:06:39.000 What question?

02:06:40.000 Tim's question taken seriously.

02:06:43.000 Who's going to take it seriously?

02:06:45.000 I'm taking it seriously.

02:06:46.000 Okay.

02:06:48.000 You're in a weird world.

02:06:50.000 Here's your weird world.

02:06:51.000 You're in a world of serious intellectual people. 0.90

02:06:53.000 You're damn straight.

02:06:54.000 You're also hanging out with Tim Dillon and me. 0.62

02:06:56.000 And I love it.

02:06:57.000 But the problem is you're conflating these two things.

02:07:03.000 Joe, I'm not that angry at Tim Dillon.

02:07:05.000 Not that angry?

02:07:06.000 Did you hear that?

02:07:07.000 You heard the word that?

02:07:09.000 That's a problem.

02:07:10.000 You're not that angry at Carlos Mencia.

02:07:11.000 I'm not angry at him at all.

02:07:13.000 I know.

02:07:13.000 I'm not angry at Tim Dillon at all.

02:07:14.000 I'm sad for Tim Dillon.

02:07:17.000 It should be sad for Tim.

02:07:19.000 He's one of the most important comedians of our time.

02:07:21.000 How dare you?

02:07:23.000 It gave me a moment to reflect. 0.99

02:07:27.000 And I realized something, which is I don't want to talk about this shit publicly. 0.98

02:07:31.000 I don't want to say Dale Jorgensen is the guy who buried One of the most important innovations in economic theory. 0.98

02:07:40.000 But yet you just did.

02:07:40.000 I just did.

02:07:41.000 And that's what I've just done.

02:07:43.000 I realized by reviewing your history and revealing you're seven years away from the store, I don't want to be associated with Dale Jorgensen.

02:07:52.000 I don't care about him.

02:07:54.000 I want to be associated with gauge-theoretic economics.

02:07:57.000 I see what you're saying. 0.96

02:07:58.000 And what I realized is I don't want to be associated with the shit that happened over something called the Cyberg-Witten equations.

02:08:06.000 What I just handed you, one of the reasons I've held it back is that it very clearly gives an alternate definition, alternate motivation and derivation of the equations that revolutionized gauge theory, which is what I was thinking about in around 1987, 1988. And I've lived afraid of my own story because it's such an ugly story. 0.94

02:08:30.000 The story of a guy who was not allowed to attend his own thesis defense to any academician.

02:08:36.000 You hear, like, what do you mean you weren't allowed to?

02:08:38.000 You present your thesis.

02:08:40.000 No, no, no.

02:08:41.000 I was not allowed in the room of my own thesis defense.

02:08:43.000 So this is why Harvard wanted you to move out of state?

02:08:46.000 Harvard and I got into a thing.

02:08:48.000 Because of that?

02:08:49.000 Because of a conflict.

02:08:51.000 Because also of this.

02:08:53.000 Because of geometric unity.

02:08:55.000 Because I said, I want to do physics.

02:08:58.000 And I have an idea about how physics goes.

02:09:01.000 And to be brutally honest, I was technically underpowered.

02:09:06.000 I am technically underpowered.

02:09:08.000 I was conceptually amazing.

02:09:10.000 I was very creative, very generative.

02:09:13.000 Tons and tons of great ideas, I think.

02:09:15.000 I'm being honest on both fronts.

02:09:17.000 Technically underpowered.

02:09:20.000 Okay.

02:09:21.000 I couldn't accept myself in this world of like, you know, if you play classical music, everybody's technically brilliant.

02:09:27.000 There's no technically weak people in classical music.

02:09:31.000 I was like a guy, it was like John Lee Hooker in the orchestra of, you know, the Cleveland Symphony Orchestra on one string and a guitar playing with some weird syncopated rhythm.

02:09:40.000 Boom, boom, boom, boom.

02:09:42.000 Gonna shoot you right down. 1.00

02:09:43.000 Yeah, exactly. 0.95

02:09:46.000 Mom said, let that, daddy said, let that boy boogie woogie. 0.94

02:09:49.000 It's in him and it's got to come out.

02:09:51.000 That thing, I'm scared of.

02:09:53.000 Why are you scared of it?

02:09:54.000 Because it's my history.

02:09:54.000 Because I don't want to go back into it.

02:09:56.000 I don't want to go back to being the guy begging Dale Jorgensen, oh, pretty pleased with sugar and top, let me innovate your entire field.

02:10:06.000 I don't want to go back to the Harvard department and say the words Clifford Taubes.

02:10:10.000 You had Gary Taubes on your program.

02:10:12.000 Mm-hmm.

02:10:14.000 Clifford Taubes was the guy who told me I had to move out of state.

02:10:17.000 Was he related to Gary?

02:10:18.000 Yeah, he was his brother.

02:10:20.000 Yeah.

02:10:21.000 He was the guy who held the secret seminar.

02:10:24.000 And the thing is, is that I'm not against the person in the story.

02:10:28.000 I don't want to be involved with him.

02:10:32.000 I want him to go and be successful and have a good career.

02:10:36.000 But my story...

02:10:37.000 When I put forward those equations, and he said they're insufficiently nonlinear, and he said self-duality doesn't have anything to do with spinners, because if it did, Nigel Hitchens would have told us.

02:10:49.000 Okay?

02:10:49.000 Nigel would have told us.

02:10:50.000 He didn't say Hitchens.

02:10:51.000 He was wrong.

02:10:53.000 And then when I gave him the opportunity, he didn't say, you know what, Eric Weinstein brought these equations up, and I told him no.

02:11:01.000 And that thing is like something I've held open the door.

02:11:04.000 He's now in his mid-60s.

02:11:07.000 I was like, you really couldn't just say, maybe I screwed up? 1.00

02:11:11.000 You should go kick his ass. 1.00

02:11:13.000 No. 1.00

02:11:13.000 Why? 1.00

02:11:14.000 I'm joking.

02:11:15.000 I know.

02:11:19.000 Well, but wait a second, Joe. 1.00

02:11:21.000 I'm such a dick. 1.00

02:11:25.000 Such a dick. 1.00

02:11:26.000 I had to! 0.99

02:11:27.000 Come and bring some levity into this.

02:11:29.000 I thought you were going to cry 30 seconds ago.

02:11:31.000 Do you have a tissue?

02:11:32.000 No.

02:11:33.000 Somewhere.

02:11:34.000 Yeah, it was over there.

02:11:36.000 But this is the thing.

02:11:37.000 What I realized through Tim, it wasn't a question of being angry at Tim, really.

02:11:42.000 I've been running away from my own story.

02:11:45.000 Just the way I don't like you associated with...

02:11:47.000 I haven't mentioned the guy who was the joke thief in this entire time.

02:11:51.000 Yeah, I understand what you're saying.

02:11:53.000 Right?

02:11:53.000 It's like, why are you and he entangled in a story?

02:11:56.000 Because he has nothing to do with your life.

02:11:57.000 It's okay.

02:11:58.000 It doesn't bother me that I'm entangled with him.

02:12:01.000 What bothers me that I'm entangled with this stuff?

02:12:04.000 Um, I know what you're saying.

02:12:07.000 Because I want to be joyous.

02:12:09.000 I want to produce positive things that uplift us, that give us a hope of breaking, like, the Einsteinian speed limit.

02:12:17.000 You know, if this is wrong, I want to know.

02:12:20.000 Mm-hmm.

02:12:21.000 I think it's right.

02:12:22.000 I think with all my flaws and all my failings and being 25 years out of the field, I believe that this story is going to be fixed by people who are trying to shoot it down. 0.99

02:12:33.000 They're going to say, holy shit. 0.98

02:12:35.000 I think there's something here. 0.99

02:12:36.000 Well, now we're going to know, right?

02:12:37.000 I think I'm hoping.

02:12:38.000 You released it today?

02:12:39.000 On geometricunity.org.

02:12:43.000 And go to pullthatupjamie.com and you can watch all the videos that we didn't show you.

02:12:50.000 There it is.

02:12:50.000 Pull that up.

02:12:51.000 I'm a little conflicted with that.

02:12:53.000 Are you?

02:12:54.000 We can talk afterwards.

02:12:55.000 You should have thought of it first, Jamie. 1.00

02:12:57.000 No, he's got a shirt that says pull that shit up. 0.99

02:13:00.000 I have a one on the way too. 0.99

02:13:01.000 What is it?

02:13:03.000 I can't talk about it yet.

02:13:04.000 It's going to be a surprise.

02:13:04.000 And what website would that be?

02:13:06.000 Jamie Vernon?

02:13:06.000 YoungJamie.com?

02:13:07.000 Yes, correct.

02:13:08.000 Available there.

02:13:09.000 The Breakout Star.

02:13:13.000 We were at dinner yesterday.

02:13:14.000 Yeah.

02:13:15.000 Eating barbecue. 1.00

02:13:16.000 And I asked Jamie a question and the fucking waiter goes, Holy shit, it's Jamie! 1.00

02:13:22.000 It was hilarious. 1.00

02:13:24.000 Jamie, do you get recognized a lot? 0.99

02:13:26.000 He fucking panicked. 0.99

02:13:28.000 When he saw Jamie, he panicked. 1.00

02:13:31.000 Holy shit, it's Jamie! 0.99

02:13:33.000 That's good. 0.99

02:13:34.000 It was kind of hilarious.

02:13:35.000 I'm big in the server world.

02:13:40.000 It was funny, though.

02:13:42.000 It was an interesting moment.

02:13:44.000 I'm pretty sure that was the first table that dude ever waited on, too.

02:13:46.000 It seemed like it, for sure.

02:13:47.000 Yeah.

02:13:48.000 He told us he was a trainee.

02:13:50.000 And I'm pretty sure.

02:13:51.000 If it wasn't his first table, it was definitely his first ten.

02:13:55.000 Yeah.

02:13:55.000 Yeah, he was a little perplexed.

02:13:58.000 He'll make it. 0.96

02:13:59.000 But seeing Jamie, it was fucking hilarious. 0.99

02:14:02.000 Do you hate being famous? 1.00

02:14:06.000 If I hated it, it would be pretty fucking stupid that I continue to pursue fame. 0.98

02:14:12.000 I don't hate it. 0.99

02:14:13.000 Do you pursue fame?

02:14:14.000 Well, I mean, I'm doing this thing that makes you famous.

02:14:17.000 I mean, I'm not pursuing fame, but it's an after effect of the thing that I do.

02:14:22.000 I think that there's no way to go through life trying to do what you're doing without getting famous as a byproduct.

02:14:29.000 You could get marginally famous and stay alive and feed yourself and do well, but you wouldn't impact as many people.

02:14:37.000 You wouldn't have the ability to impact as many people.

02:14:39.000 You wouldn't have the ability to get the guests you get.

02:14:41.000 You wouldn't have the conversation.

02:14:42.000 Here's the thing.

02:14:43.000 It's like I would like to pretend that I'm so smart that I figured this out in advance, but I didn't.

02:14:47.000 It was just all luck.

02:14:49.000 It was all... 0.97

02:14:51.000 This job of being a podcaster mixed in with my mental illness. 0.88

02:14:58.000 Comedy.

02:14:59.000 Well, it's a comedy too, but it's also, I'm an obsessive person.

02:15:03.000 When I find things, I obsess on them.

02:15:06.000 You do get good at them.

02:15:08.000 My main problem is that there's too many things I'm obsessed with.

02:15:12.000 When people tell me they're bored, I just go, geez, that's crazy.

02:15:17.000 That's like someone telling me they breathe underwater.

02:15:19.000 I'm like, I don't know what you're saying.

02:15:21.000 I have so many interests.

02:15:23.000 I wish I had multiple lives to lead simultaneously.

02:15:27.000 Then I would pursue each thing that I'm fascinated with.

02:15:31.000 Single-minded determination.

02:15:33.000 Absolutely.

02:15:34.000 Exactly.

02:15:36.000 So I stumbled...

02:15:38.000 I almost...

02:15:39.000 I mean, I don't really believe this, but I almost believe this, that this thing found me.

02:15:44.000 That it's almost like there was like a...

02:15:46.000 I totally understand what that means.

02:15:48.000 Like...

02:15:49.000 Like an attractor.

02:15:51.000 And like how...

02:15:53.000 You ever see...

02:15:55.000 When neurons...

02:15:56.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, trying to find each other.

02:15:58.000 Yeah, it's fascinating.

02:15:59.000 And they speed it up.

02:16:01.000 I think Freedman, I think Lex Freedman had it on his Instagram.

02:16:06.000 These neurons are...

02:16:09.000 They don't see, right?

02:16:12.000 No, they just send stuff out chemically.

02:16:14.000 Yeah, some way they find this thing.

02:16:17.000 And I feel...

02:16:19.000 There it is.

02:16:19.000 That is Lex.

02:16:21.000 Yeah.

02:16:21.000 And there's something that I feel like about life, that if you just open, if you don't bullshit yourself, and you're willing to take risks, those things find you, or you find them,

02:16:37.000 and then once you get going, the easiest part is once you've already started, just continuing.

02:16:43.000 The hardest part is getting going with everything.

02:16:45.000 The hardest part is showing up for the first class.

02:16:47.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:16:48.000 The easiest part is showing up for the thousandth one.

02:16:51.000 I'm backing away from fame.

02:16:54.000 How are you doing that?

02:16:55.000 By being on this show?

02:16:57.000 Clubhouse.

02:16:58.000 By being on Clubhouse?

02:16:59.000 That's it.

02:17:00.000 Well, Clubhouse was...

02:17:01.000 Hey.

02:17:02.000 Smart guy.

02:17:03.000 You got busted. 1.00

02:17:05.000 Fucking Jamie. 1.00

02:17:08.000 Jamie, it was a closed app. 1.00

02:17:10.000 That's fine.

02:17:10.000 I know.

02:17:11.000 I get it. 1.00

02:17:11.000 Fucking million people follow you, bitch. 1.00

02:17:13.000 Two. 1.00

02:17:13.000 What are you talking about? 1.00

02:17:14.000 2.8.

02:17:15.000 What, you piker?

02:17:17.000 I think I have 4,000.

02:17:19.000 Yeah, because you showed up once at 700,000.

02:17:21.000 I might not even have 4,000.

02:17:22.000 Joe, the issue was I tried doing something.

02:17:25.000 I haven't even checked.

02:17:26.000 I tried doing it and it got big.

02:17:28.000 Oh, yeah.

02:17:29.000 And that was an accident in a weird way.

02:17:31.000 No, you're good at it.

02:17:32.000 You're good at talking.

02:17:32.000 People like hearing you.

02:17:33.000 But I love it.

02:17:35.000 And I love a large part of being famous.

02:17:37.000 You should be on only with Tim Dillon.

02:17:38.000 Just you and him together.

02:17:40.000 Should we have an OnlyFans page together?

02:17:42.000 No, just you guys only on Clubhouse.

02:17:45.000 And you have to be in the same room together.

02:17:47.000 We've done a bunch of rooms together.

02:17:48.000 I'm sure, but only in the same room room.

02:17:51.000 Like, where you have to look at him.

02:17:55.000 Why do I fly to Austin to try to be serious with Joe?

02:18:00.000 Listen, you can be serious for a little bit.

02:18:04.000 I know.

02:18:05.000 I'm struggling with it.

02:18:07.000 And I was wondering whether or not...

02:18:09.000 Because, you know, in a weird way, you very clearly scope your life.

02:18:14.000 Like, this and not that.

02:18:16.000 I'm going to do this publicly, and then I'm going to retreat into my own little world.

02:18:20.000 I just have instincts.

02:18:21.000 And my instincts are...

02:18:24.000 There's a great benefit for me personally to do this podcast and to talk to interesting people and to have these conversations and I've most certainly been educated beyond my wildest dreams in the 11 years that I've done it.

02:18:35.000 I've learned so much about just the broadest spectrum of ideas.

02:18:42.000 You're going to claim you're not doing it for the world because the world has been changed.

02:18:46.000 I'm not doing it for the world.

02:18:47.000 I'm not.

02:18:47.000 I'm doing it for my personal edification.

02:18:50.000 I'm doing it because I enjoy it.

02:18:51.000 I'm doing it for the money.

02:18:53.000 I'm doing it because I do think that there's a benefit to it.

02:18:55.000 I love that you said that, by the way.

02:18:56.000 It's true.

02:18:58.000 I'm doing it for all those things.

02:18:59.000 And the money...

02:19:00.000 The reason why I'm doing it for the money is because there's a lot of freedom in money.

02:19:05.000 The trappings of money...

02:19:06.000 People get crazy. 1.00

02:19:09.000 They start buying fucking diamond-encrusted watches and shit and bigger houses. 1.00

02:19:13.000 It's freedom. 1.00

02:19:15.000 Freedom is the biggest thing.

02:19:17.000 And security.

02:19:17.000 I would buy bodyguards and assistants and lawyers.

02:19:23.000 Yeah.

02:19:24.000 It's very valuable.

02:19:25.000 The freedom aspect of it is very valuable.

02:19:27.000 But...

02:19:28.000 But when you reach a certain number, then why are you still doing it?

02:19:32.000 Well, I'm still doing it because I enjoy it.

02:19:33.000 I do enjoy it. 0.99

02:19:35.000 There's not a day that I do this where I go, fuck, I've got to go to work. 0.99

02:19:38.000 Not a single day. 0.98

02:19:40.000 Partially, it's because I pick all the guests.

02:19:43.000 There's no one that's a guest that I don't want to be on.

02:19:47.000 You have an easy time saying no.

02:19:49.000 I just don't answer.

02:19:51.000 I know, I know.

02:19:52.000 I don't say no, I just don't say yes.

02:19:54.000 I just don't, you know, there's a filter system, right?

02:19:57.000 So, like, when I send my guy people to go contact that I don't know, and then the people that I do know, I contact.

02:20:07.000 So it's like half of them get booked by me on my phone, and half of them I get someone to contact for me.

02:20:14.000 And I'm like, hey, I read this guy's book.

02:20:15.000 He's really interesting.

02:20:16.000 Can you get a hold of him?

02:20:17.000 Or, hey, I saw this guy's documentary. 1.00

02:20:19.000 This is crazy shit. 1.00

02:20:20.000 This is the best part of the fame thing. 1.00

02:20:22.000 The best part of the fame thing is getting your call answered.

02:20:25.000 I desperately wanted to talk to P.J. O'Rourke.

02:20:28.000 I don't know if you've talked to him or read his book.

02:20:30.000 No, I have not, but I know he is.

02:20:31.000 Unbelievable writer.

02:20:32.000 I just think he's one of the greatest writers in the English language, full stop.

02:20:37.000 And I told my producer, can you get me PJ at work?

02:20:40.000 And he's like, okay, he's booked. 0.98

02:20:42.000 I'm just like, holy crap. 0.96

02:20:43.000 Yeah, you got him. 0.99

02:20:44.000 I got him.

02:20:45.000 And it was meaningful to me that...

02:20:50.000 I've read so much of his stuff.

02:20:52.000 I've gone over and over.

02:20:53.000 How did he make that sentence sing like that?

02:20:55.000 Just tell me how that sentence happened.

02:20:57.000 Probably the third or fourth draft.

02:20:59.000 Maybe.

02:21:01.000 I think actually what it was in part was that he imitated so many people's styles initially that he became very adept at...

02:21:09.000 Like, pulling from the great grab bag of tricks that everyone had used.

02:21:13.000 And then he built his own voice.

02:21:15.000 Yeah, that's the benefit to reading as well as writing, right?

02:21:17.000 Like, all the great writers read a lot.

02:21:19.000 Are you a great reader?

02:21:21.000 I do more books on tape than I do reading, but I've been reading more lately.

02:21:27.000 And when you write comedy, is writing comedy a great exercise for you?

02:21:33.000 Does it feel good relative to doing comedy?

02:21:37.000 Writing is very important.

02:21:39.000 There's a lot of bits that I come up with that I would not have come up with if I didn't just sit alone with a computer.

02:21:44.000 It's very important for me.

02:21:45.000 Some of my best bits that I've ever done, closing bits, signature bits, have come from writing.

02:21:52.000 And how much do substances break into new space?

02:21:57.000 The space was always there to be broken into, but it wouldn't be so easy to find it.

02:22:02.000 I think there's multiple variables that are at play.

02:22:05.000 And I think performing is a big one.

02:22:08.000 And lately, I haven't been doing that much of that because of the pandemic and trying to be responsible and not do that many shows, you know, and certainly not do shows without people being COVID tested, right?

02:22:20.000 And I'm hoping that as we come out of this, and it seems like we're coming out of this, it'll be easier.

02:22:25.000 And I'm also buying a club in town.

02:22:27.000 So once that happens, I'll be doing the same thing there with COVID testing everybody and trying to get the ball.

02:22:33.000 So there's that, right?

02:22:35.000 But then there's also you have to think a lot.

02:22:38.000 You can't just perform.

02:22:41.000 Because if you do, like one of the things that comics fell trapped to in the early days, not the early, you know, last 10, 20 years, was they would do a lot of jokes about being a comic on the road.

02:22:53.000 Hotel rooms... 0.99

02:22:55.000 Airplane travel, that kind of shit. 1.00

02:22:56.000 It's the problem of right what you know. 1.00

02:22:57.000 Exactly.

02:22:58.000 That's a problem.

02:22:58.000 And I think you have to experience life and you have to think.

02:23:02.000 And you have to experience different mindsets.

02:23:06.000 You have to experience different subject matters that you're contemplating and puzzling, you're puzzled about.

02:23:15.000 You have to perform a lot.

02:23:16.000 You have to write.

02:23:17.000 I think you have to write too.

02:23:19.000 I don't think you can just perform a lot.

02:23:21.000 Some people can.

02:23:21.000 Some people just write in their head and they go on stage and they continue to craft these ideas and some of the best comics alive.

02:23:29.000 But I think they would have more to choose from if they just sat in front of the computer and forced themselves to write.

02:23:36.000 And some guys will say...

02:23:37.000 I don't like it because then my material seems like I wrote it.

02:23:40.000 It comes out like a script.

02:23:42.000 And I understand that.

02:23:44.000 But I think the workaround for that is what I've done.

02:23:48.000 And I've talked to a few other comics that do the same thing.

02:23:50.000 Felicia Michaels, she said she does it this way too.

02:23:53.000 I write essays.

02:23:55.000 I just write on a subject.

02:23:57.000 If I'm going to write on getting drunk, the perils of getting drunk, the pros and the cons and what feels good and what feels bad and what's good about it, what's bad about it, what do I hate about it, what do I love about it.

02:24:11.000 And then out of this, I might write 3,000, 4,000 words.

02:24:16.000 But out of it, I might have one paragraph that comes across, that becomes...

02:24:20.000 That's it.

02:24:20.000 So the idea is that the essay is weirdly the throwaway because the product...

02:24:25.000 Exactly.

02:24:26.000 So this is fascinating to me because my guess is that somebody else would publish the essay and we'd be saying, wow...

02:24:31.000 I read this thing Joe wrote in The Atlantic.

02:24:33.000 It wouldn't be terribly funny.

02:24:35.000 I would change it.

02:24:36.000 If I was going to do that, I would write it as an essay.

02:24:38.000 But the essay is essentially for a one-person audience.

02:24:41.000 That person's me.

02:24:42.000 And then I smoke a joint, and then I go over it, and then I go, oh, that's it, right there.

02:24:47.000 So one of the things that I learned from sort of studying, when you do a bit and I see it multiple times, I learn about when you find the rhetorical formulation, That allows you to get closer to the truth without paying the outsized price.

02:25:06.000 Somehow that unleashes comedy magic.

02:25:09.000 I remember you had something about getting high and having kids.

02:25:13.000 And it was a very difficult issue because obviously people do get high and they do have kids.

02:25:19.000 And then we have this idea, you know, it's like being sexy leads to kids, but sex and kids have to be kept apart.

02:25:27.000 All of these are weird ways in which normal adult behavior and children are incompatible.

02:25:33.000 And so there was like a William Tell Act, in some sense, that had to be How am I going to talk about two things that are not supposed to coalesce, but obviously they coalesce in people?

02:25:44.000 How do I find the skill?

02:25:46.000 And that's sort of what I wonder about when you hone a bit, is that you can get closer and closer to the truth because you find the formulation that actually works without blowing up in your face.

02:25:56.000 It's like, I can throw this grenade and wait to the point where it's maximally effective without losing a hand.

02:26:01.000 Well, the beautiful thing is sometimes you lose hands.

02:26:04.000 That's not...

02:26:05.000 That's the beautiful thing.

02:26:06.000 You try it out and you lose a hand. 1.00

02:26:08.000 And then you go, well, that fucking sucks. 1.00

02:26:10.000 And you come back tomorrow with a new approach. 0.99

02:26:12.000 Okay, well then it wasn't really losing a hand because it was in a comp.

02:26:15.000 Then if you're Michael Richards and somebody's got a phone up, then you're not losing a hand, you're losing a career.

02:26:20.000 Yeah, that's a different situation.

02:26:22.000 He's on coke, you know?

02:26:25.000 But the difference is, also, he wasn't really a comic.

02:26:28.000 Like, that was a disaster.

02:26:29.000 That was just...

02:26:30.000 The difference is, you have an idea, and you're not exactly sure how this idea is going to best be expressed to a group of strangers.

02:26:43.000 Well, this is what I love about the idea of the store and the experimental thing.

02:26:46.000 And when you and I got together and had the conversation about David Burns, how did CBGBs work for punk, and you said...

02:26:53.000 This is the same thing as the store for comedy.

02:26:56.000 Yes.

02:26:56.000 Yeah.

02:26:56.000 We were in the back bar, the secret bar that non-comedians are not supposed to even go into unless you know somebody.

02:27:02.000 What bar?

02:27:03.000 But that weird thing about, like, I keep thinking about it.

02:27:06.000 Why don't we have a secret bar for math and physics?

02:27:09.000 You're remembering it incorrectly, though.

02:27:11.000 Okay.

02:27:11.000 Can I just tell you that?

02:27:12.000 You were the one who equated it to CBGBs.

02:27:14.000 Because I don't really know that much about CBGBs.

02:27:16.000 You said this is essentially what CBGBs is.

02:27:19.000 It wasn't me.

02:27:21.000 I came up, yes.

02:27:22.000 But then you said, this is exactly right.

02:27:25.000 And so I was trying to be... 0.98

02:27:27.000 Well, when you were there, I mean, like, fucking Bill Burr was walking in, Chappelle was out there. 0.98

02:27:32.000 It was like... 0.98

02:27:32.000 That's how it is there. 0.98

02:27:33.000 That's, well, how it was there. 1.00

02:27:35.000 Now it's a fucking ghost house. 0.99

02:27:37.000 Now it's boarded up. 1.00

02:27:38.000 Well, but you're going to do something here, right?

02:27:40.000 Are you going to turn to Austin?

02:27:42.000 I mean, because you're basically hoovering up everybody I like and moving them to Austin.

02:27:46.000 I've hoovered up a lot of good people.

02:27:47.000 Yeah.

02:27:48.000 I even got Brian Holtzman to move out here.

02:27:50.000 The idea is to throw up the bat signal and to let all of them know that they can be free here.

02:27:57.000 Really?

02:27:57.000 That this is a place where I'm...

02:28:00.000 As opposed to every other person who opens up a comedy club.

02:28:03.000 Every other person who opens up a comedy club opens up a comedy club to make money.

02:28:07.000 They say, I'm going to have these comedians, you know, I'm going to make X percentage of the door, and they're going to make this, and I'm going to make a good living.

02:28:13.000 I'm not saying that at all.

02:28:14.000 My idea is to break even.

02:28:16.000 If I can break even, I'm happy.

02:28:17.000 I just want to make it the most comfortable place for comedians.

02:28:21.000 And I want to support the art form. 0.98

02:28:23.000 You said the store ultimately is a venue for people doing creative shit. 0.98

02:28:27.000 Yes. 0.94

02:28:28.000 And you said don't fetishize the fact that it's a particular kind of magic.

02:28:32.000 There may be magic, but...

02:28:33.000 Ultimately, it's a facilitator of magic.

02:28:35.000 The magic was Mitzi Shore.

02:28:37.000 Mitzi Shore let us be who we were.

02:28:39.000 She would cackle, you know, call it the island of misfit toys, and she would go, ah, the inmates are running the asylum. 1.00

02:28:46.000 That was her thing.

02:28:47.000 She loved it. 0.99

02:28:48.000 She loved the fact that she let these crazy people just go nuts on her stage.

02:28:53.000 Then why did she let you leave for seven years?

02:28:55.000 She wasn't in good health.

02:28:57.000 She didn't.

02:28:58.000 She got weak.

02:28:58.000 She gave me a spot that night.

02:29:00.000 I know.

02:29:00.000 The night that I got banned, she gave me a spot.

02:29:02.000 I called her.

02:29:03.000 I told her what was going on with the video.

02:29:05.000 And she goes, well, I'll just keep away from them.

02:29:08.000 And she said to me, what time do you want to go up?

02:29:10.000 I go, what time do you want me to go up?

02:29:11.000 She goes, how about 1030?

02:29:13.000 And I go, okay.

02:29:13.000 I love you.

02:29:15.000 She loved me back.

02:29:16.000 It's the last time I talked to her.

02:29:17.000 Is that right?

02:29:19.000 Yeah.

02:29:19.000 Can I bring somebody up on the show because it's hugely at scale named Isadora Singer?

02:29:24.000 Jamie, can you show somebody named Isadora Singer, I-S-A-D-O-R-E-S-I-N-G-E-R, who's my version in some sense of this guy who saved my ass? 0.99

02:29:35.000 Who the fuck's up, dude? 0.98

02:29:36.000 This guy is one of the greatest human beings, and the privilege of coming to this show, he is one half of the Attia-Singer Index Theorem, a courageous guy, brilliant beyond words, 0.99

02:29:53.000 who changed the entire face of mathematical physics.

02:30:03.000 A human being who I had a falling out with over the National Academy of Sciences.

02:30:09.000 I hate mushrooms more than anything in this world.

02:30:12.000 I ate a plate of steamed, sautéed mushrooms.

02:30:15.000 Why do you hate mushrooms?

02:30:17.000 I can't stand my gag.

02:30:18.000 Really?

02:30:18.000 And his wife, Rosemary, is a wonderful gourmet chef, and she made a plate of it.

02:30:22.000 You ever had morels?

02:30:24.000 Dude, I can barely get down Four Sigmatic.

02:30:28.000 Do you know what morels look like?

02:30:29.000 No, tell me.

02:30:30.000 Morels are like, they're almost like meat.

02:30:32.000 Okay.

02:30:32.000 They're like...

02:30:33.000 I've tried that with shiitake.

02:30:34.000 People say these things, but...

02:30:36.000 Shiitake's good too.

02:30:37.000 I ate a huge plate for this guy.

02:30:41.000 Okay.

02:30:42.000 Without showing any discomfort.

02:30:44.000 When I got to the bottom, I thought I was going to throw up at this table.

02:30:47.000 Why mushrooms?

02:30:48.000 I can't stand mushrooms. 1.00

02:30:49.000 Fucking mushrooms. 1.00

02:30:50.000 Fuck them. 1.00

02:30:51.000 I hate them. 1.00

02:30:52.000 What do you love?

02:30:53.000 Everything.

02:30:54.000 Come on, what do you love?

02:30:55.000 Salmon?

02:30:56.000 I love Parmesan cheese.

02:30:57.000 I love salmon.

02:30:58.000 I love noodle kugel.

02:31:01.000 I love...

02:31:03.000 Grits?

02:31:04.000 Sure.

02:31:04.000 I love pozole.

02:31:05.000 You're cool with grits?

02:31:06.000 You're not cool with mushrooms? 1.00

02:31:07.000 Fuck mushrooms. 1.00

02:31:08.000 Wow. 1.00

02:31:09.000 Okay.

02:31:09.000 But the thing is, I just lost this guy.

02:31:12.000 Very aggressive.

02:31:12.000 I'm not going to see him again.

02:31:15.000 Two years ago, I went to Massachusetts to try to see him.

02:31:20.000 And...

02:31:22.000 You know this idea that Mitzi stood up for you and she was just in bad health and all this? 0.97

02:31:27.000 Well this guy stood up for me and saved my ass and I never got a chance.

02:31:33.000 To resolve my, you know, like you say, I didn't see this person again. 0.96

02:31:38.000 I didn't see this guy again.

02:31:40.000 And I have so much love for him.

02:31:42.000 I don't understand what happened.

02:31:44.000 You're not explaining this very well.

02:31:45.000 He was a member of the National Academy of Sciences, like the very top.

02:31:49.000 He was a head of the committee called COSIPUP, which is the Holy of Holies.

02:31:52.000 Okay.

02:31:53.000 And I discovered that the National Academy of Sciences had faked a shortage of scientists and engineers They did a secret study where they looked at supply and demand and decided that the price of American scientists and engineers was going to hit six figures.

02:32:08.000 And they subtracted the demand curves and they said let's fake a demographic supply crisis where we wouldn't have enough scientists.

02:32:18.000 They got us to pass the 1990 Immigration Act, which came with H-1B. And I told Iz this.

02:32:25.000 And it put him in a position where the thing that he loved, which was the system, because he was the guy who made the system work, He was like Harriet Tubman.

02:32:33.000 He would do things.

02:32:34.000 He saved me.

02:32:35.000 He saved me.

02:32:37.000 He loved the system.

02:32:39.000 And then I had to show him that the system had gotten so corrupted that we were going to give it all away to China. 1.00

02:32:44.000 We were going to allow the Chinese to populate our labs and put a proctoscope in the entire university system, which is where we do our research, so they would get the benefits of totalitarianism and the benefits of our freedom. 1.00

02:32:55.000 They'd learn all the stuff we were doing with our freedom, and then they'd go implement and execute with totalitarianism.

02:33:01.000 And Iz was so angry at me that I had found the study in 1986 done with the National Science Foundation and the National Academy to fake a fake shortage of scientists and engineers to pass the 1990 Immigration Act that led to H-1B. That he and I got to a point where we couldn't talk to each other.

02:33:20.000 What was his rationale for faking it?

02:33:23.000 He didn't want to fake it.

02:33:24.000 He understood what I said, but the point was that he had attached himself to the system.

02:33:30.000 He was what made the system great.

02:33:33.000 The system used to be much better.

02:33:35.000 Did he recognize your dilemma?

02:33:38.000 Is love me. 1.00

02:33:40.000 Is fucking love me. 0.99

02:33:41.000 Right, but did he recognize your dilemma? 0.99

02:33:43.000 Yes.

02:33:43.000 We got to a point where the world divided us.

02:33:46.000 I was his postdoc.

02:33:49.000 I was his postdoc.

02:33:51.000 And we weren't just post-doc.

02:33:53.000 It wasn't just a formal relationship.

02:33:55.000 I'd go up to his office and we'd talk about jazz and love and children and heartbreak and all sorts of stuff.

02:34:01.000 And he believed in this that I showed you, okay?

02:34:05.000 He had so much confidence that when I came to Cambridge, shit out of luck, when Harvard was trying to asphyxiate me, he stood up for me and gathered the entire creme de la creme of the MIT math physics world To hear what I had to say because he believed.

02:34:23.000 And then he made sure that I got an NSF postdoc and that I got a postdoc at MIT and he repaired my story, right?

02:34:30.000 And I love this guy.

02:34:31.000 I love this guy so much.

02:34:33.000 And he was at my wedding and I never got a chance to say goodbye to him.

02:34:37.000 And the New York Times did an obituary And the New York Times hasn't talked to me for like eight years almost, something like that.

02:34:46.000 And I looked at the obituary to hear about his singer and like I'm the major quote because they were still talking to me and they do the obituary so many years in front.

02:34:57.000 I've met a tiny number of people who will be remembered a thousand years from now.

02:35:01.000 This is one of like three people I can say for sure, if people are still talking a thousand years from now, they're going to remember him because he did this wonderful thing, the Atiyah Singer Index Theorem.

02:35:13.000 It's just so foundational.

02:35:13.000 You can't even imagine how beautiful this thing is.

02:35:17.000 And, you know, it was shocking.

02:35:22.000 It was shocking to remember that I had been enough part of the system that I could be respectable, that I could be trusted to say something about this great man who just passed at, like, I don't know, 96. And I never got a chance to,

02:35:39.000 like, say goodbye or repair the relationship.

02:35:43.000 And, you know, I was in touch with his daughter who writes for the New York Times.

02:35:46.000 Iz had a cabinet. 0.87

02:35:50.000 And if you said something really brilliant, like really fucking brilliant, he'd often go to the cabinet and say, you know, it's funny. 0.93

02:35:57.000 I haven't thought about that for N years.

02:35:59.000 And he'd pull out a piece of paper, and there was your brilliant idea, which he didn't even think to publish, because it wasn't ready yet. 0.96

02:36:08.000 And on the one hand, you were just devastated, like, holy shit, you had that thought? 0.80

02:36:14.000 And on the other hand, you were like, I had a thought that is singer-hit, you know? 0.94

02:36:18.000 It's like, there's this level, like if Carlin might maybe, you know, for some comics, or Lenny Bruce, or Richard Pryor, or Dave Chappelle, or somebody like that.

02:36:30.000 There are these relationships where people are just at such an incredible level that you can't even believe that some human being has ascended.

02:36:39.000 And the period of time that I spent with him taught me more about what the human mind is capable of than just about anything.

02:36:46.000 He's the smartest, most brilliant man I've ever had the pleasure to know really, really well.

02:36:52.000 I still don't understand the falling out.

02:36:55.000 He didn't want to give up on the idea that the National Academy was good.

02:37:00.000 It was locked in.

02:37:02.000 Well, sometimes things can be good and flawed, right?

02:37:05.000 But for him to actually take what I was saying, that the National Academy was acting against the American interest by narrowly saying we need to make American scientists and engineers cheaper, that we need to flood the market, we need to interfere in the wage mechanism,

02:37:21.000 we need to allow China first look at everything we do, The concept that the problem was the National Academy when he was the National Academy.

02:37:31.000 I still don't understand.

02:37:31.000 What was the motivation of the National Academy to do that?

02:37:35.000 In the Reagan administration, for the first time, they appointed somebody to come in from industry rather than academics to head the National Science Foundation, a guy named Eric Block.

02:37:46.000 And I think he came from IBM? Not sure.

02:37:49.000 Eric Bloch took a sort of green eyeshade view of the world, like, holy shit, we're going to have to overpay for American scientists and engineers. 0.97

02:37:59.000 How do we avoid having to pay six figures for new PhDs? 0.96

02:38:03.000 How do we avoid letting the genius of the market solve the problem of supply and demand?

02:38:08.000 Because there's no such thing as a labor shortage in a market economy long term, right?

02:38:13.000 The wage mechanism will rise and you'll get as many people as you want.

02:38:18.000 And when Eric Bloch did this, he went through a guy named Peter House, and they picked an economist named Miles Boylan, whose name I've never said, who in 1986 wrote a study that said, here's how expensive it's going to be to pay for scientists and engineers who are American in the future.

02:38:37.000 And I had deduced from first principles that they had done a competent economic study and that they had faked economics.

02:38:45.000 An incompetent demographic study by subtracting a demand curve.

02:38:51.000 So they hid the competence and pretended that they were incompetent to pass the Immigration Act of 1990, which brought us the H-1B, which brought us huge numbers of Chinese graduate students who currently staff our labs and who we're addicted to. 0.96

02:39:07.000 And this gives China the benefit, a first look at the benefits of freedom and the benefits of the ability to execute with an iron fist. 0.94

02:39:17.000 The idea that I was telling Isidore, you don't understand.

02:39:23.000 Your organization is doing the wrong thing.

02:39:25.000 You have to stand up against your own organization.

02:39:28.000 What was his response?

02:39:30.000 How dare you?

02:39:33.000 But did you show him the data?

02:39:35.000 He was on a trip to Washington DC and he said, prepare a report for me on what you're saying.

02:39:44.000 And I sent him the secret study that I had uncovered.

02:39:47.000 Okay.

02:39:50.000 And he said, how dare you?

02:39:53.000 It was too cognitively dissonant.

02:39:55.000 You're picking on the one thing that I don't want to talk about because- Did he say that?

02:39:59.000 Yes.

02:40:00.000 He said you're picking on the one thing I don't want to talk about?

02:40:03.000 No, no, no.

02:40:03.000 You, Joe.

02:40:04.000 You're picking on his low...

02:40:06.000 I love this guy.

02:40:08.000 He made a bad call.

02:40:10.000 The great Isidore Singer made one bad call.

02:40:13.000 Did you have a conversation with him about this?

02:40:15.000 I tried.

02:40:16.000 He wouldn't talk to you.

02:40:17.000 So this guy who you loved and he loved you and you had long conversations with him?

02:40:21.000 I'm sure he loved me.

02:40:21.000 He just stopped communicating with you.

02:40:23.000 We couldn't get past the idea that something called Kosapup...

02:40:28.000 The Committee on Public Policy had gone in a direction that was long-term deleterious to the United States.

02:40:40.000 He was a patriot.

02:40:41.000 He had stood up for Star Wars under Reagan at great cost to himself.

02:40:48.000 He was a guy who loved his country.

02:40:50.000 He loved science, the National Academy.

02:40:52.000 He had courage like you wouldn't believe.

02:40:54.000 So essentially, he had a blind spot.

02:40:56.000 He had a blind spot.

02:40:57.000 And that blind spot didn't allow him to even entertain.

02:40:58.000 He didn't understand that it was changing.

02:41:00.000 Everything was changing.

02:41:02.000 And the thing that he loved, which was the system, which had been, you know, the thing that put us on the moon, right?

02:41:08.000 Right.

02:41:08.000 The thing that won World War II. Right.

02:41:10.000 Right. 0.94

02:41:11.000 Was stabbing America in the back.

02:41:13.000 The National Academy of Sciences, something called the Government University Industry Research Roundtable, and something called the Policy Research and Analysis Division of NSF, the two main science groups, National Academy and National Science Foundation, teamed up against American science for the benefit of employers to make sure that they would never have to pay market prices. 1.00

02:41:33.000 And fuck these people. 0.97

02:41:35.000 They gave away our advantage, our geopolitical strategic advantage, And they spun an entire story about we need the best and the brightest, but it was all about money. 1.00

02:41:47.000 And this guy, Miles Boylan, who's an economist, who's I believe sort of semi-retired from NSF, is the name I've held back.

02:41:54.000 Like I'm saying names that I don't normally say in public.

02:42:02.000 I lost somebody I cared so much about over this issue.

02:42:08.000 Right?

02:42:09.000 Because I told is the National Academy of Sciences has gone bad.

02:42:13.000 They've had me there four times to tell them that I've caught them.

02:42:17.000 There's no record.

02:42:20.000 At some point they had a reporter from Science Magazine and I spoke and there's no record that I said anything.

02:42:29.000 I got a standing ovation at a conference for talking about the fact that I had caught them in this In this conspiracy against American scientists.

02:42:41.000 And I learned about what happens when, like, you're going and you say, can you please report this?

02:42:49.000 It's like suddenly your voice vanishes.

02:42:51.000 And I said, you know, Iz, they've had me there four times.

02:42:54.000 They've asked me four times to tell them how I've caught them.

02:42:58.000 And it was too much for him.

02:43:00.000 He couldn't come to grips.

02:43:03.000 And like, I don't want to be talking about that.

02:43:04.000 I want to be talking about the Atiyah Singer Index theorem or Ray Singer torsion or any of the beautiful things, the BPST instanton, all the wonder that Is Singer brought into the world.

02:43:12.000 I want to talk about him saving my career if I'd wanted one.

02:43:16.000 This was the thing that didn't go that way.

02:43:18.000 It was me saying, you know the thing that you loved?

02:43:21.000 It's gone bad.

02:43:23.000 It's gone bad because of economics.

02:43:24.000 Because of economics.

02:43:26.000 Because this thing I talk about, embedded growth obligations.

02:43:29.000 When the growth ran out, people became sociopathic.

02:43:34.000 I looked what you did with the store, where the guy who was the booker It was the bad actor, right?

02:43:42.000 And then you said, well, that's the thing about the story.

02:43:44.000 Nothing ever made sense about the story.

02:43:46.000 That was what was great about the story.

02:43:48.000 It's true.

02:43:49.000 Okay.

02:43:50.000 You want to know what I love?

02:43:51.000 I love this country and I love our science establishment.

02:43:53.000 I love our universities.

02:43:54.000 And there's nowhere to stand because they've been acting bad for so long.

02:43:59.000 They've been so corrupt in terms of shepherding the research enterprise.

02:44:05.000 And I caught them.

02:44:07.000 And they knew that I caught them.

02:44:08.000 And they invited me back to tell them over and over again how I caught them.

02:44:12.000 What was their response to you explaining how you caught them?

02:44:18.000 They hired a guy, well, they invited a guy named Sherwin Rosen who said, scientists are like cattle.

02:44:26.000 You breed them, you birth them, you feed them, you slaughter them, you repeat the cycle.

02:44:35.000 Who really said that?

02:44:36.000 Yeah.

02:44:37.000 Economist from University of Chicago.

02:44:40.000 And I was supposed to respond to this.

02:44:42.000 Because scientists are not economically minded so you can take advantage of them because they're thinking about data.

02:44:47.000 That's right.

02:44:48.000 Because we're all vulnerable.

02:44:49.000 Because we all believe in the best and the brightest and we're heads down in our work.

02:44:53.000 Wait, wait a second.

02:44:54.000 I got up and I said, Sherwin, very interesting that you think scientists are like cattle.

02:45:00.000 Let me tell you a different story about economists And then I went through what I'd unearthed, okay?

02:45:08.000 And I brought a room that was in an academic conference to a standing ovation.

02:45:15.000 That never happens for an academic conference.

02:45:19.000 Because people wanted to hear the truth.

02:45:22.000 And Sherwin Rosen You know, went off to the airport and said that was the most impudent young man I've ever talked to.

02:45:29.000 And then I got invited to the COSAPUP committee.

02:45:31.000 And the COSAPUP committee said, you know, Eric, the problem with your model is scientists are not in any way motivated by money.

02:45:38.000 They only care about the truth, and that's why all of your models don't work. 0.91

02:45:43.000 And I said, great news, because I have a friend who's got a wife who's eight months pregnant being paid $14,000 a year.

02:45:52.000 So I'm going to open my briefcase, and we're going to use the tool called Revealed Preference, and we're going to go around, given that you're all doing very, very well in your lives, and we're going to open up the briefcase, and we're going to allow you to put in an IOU for how much money you don't care about to help the struggling young topologist and his wife.

02:46:11.000 And I looked at each member of the COSPOP committee, and I got to one of them.

02:46:14.000 He said, okay, Eric, you've made your point.

02:46:17.000 And one of them said, well, who did this dastardly thing?

02:46:20.000 And I said, the Government University Industry Research Roundtable.

02:46:24.000 And all eyes turned to this woman.

02:46:25.000 I think her name was Mary Ellen Fox.

02:46:27.000 She said, well, Mary Ellen's the head of that. 0.99

02:46:30.000 So then Mary Ellen invited me.

02:46:32.000 So then I gave this talk again and again and again and again, right?

02:46:36.000 And they wanted to know, how much do you know?

02:46:41.000 How much do you know?

02:46:42.000 And then there's no record that any of this happened.

02:46:44.000 And one of the reasons I don't talk about this is not that I don't have the goods.

02:46:48.000 It's that I don't want to ruin the beauty of who we are and what we do.

02:46:56.000 I keep waiting for these people to retire and stop ruining our universities and stop ruining the next generation of kids and stop charging people so much that they have to effectively go into gray area prostitution in order to pay off their student loans.

02:47:11.000 I keep saying, when are we going to get rid of this class of people that ran everything into the ground?

02:47:19.000 I've now given up.

02:47:20.000 And that was one of the things that I did by reviewing what you did with joke thievery, as I realized that you said, joke thievery isn't actually funny.

02:47:29.000 There are things that aren't funny.

02:47:31.000 And these things that I'm talking about, about burying careers, about destroying people, about interfering with the wage mechanism, about giving away our advantage to our geopolitical rivals, are not funny.

02:47:43.000 And they're not cute.

02:47:45.000 And I've realized that this is the thing that I'm unwilling to talk about.

02:47:49.000 I don't want to get into the ugliness of going up against the National Academy of Sciences and saying, what the hell is wrong with you people?

02:47:56.000 But now I've decided I'm going whole hog and I'm going to be who I am.

02:48:02.000 One of the things that I'm worried with when it comes to woke culture is not that people think the way they think, because I think a lot of young people think that way.

02:48:12.000 A lot of young people have socialist, Marxist ideas, because it seems like it's a good thing to think of, you know?

02:48:18.000 And then, you know, woke ideology, at least...

02:48:23.000 On the surface, it seems to be spreading what you would call social justice, which seems to be a positive thing, right?

02:48:32.000 On the surface.

02:48:33.000 What my concern really is, and I think what's highlighted what you were just expressing about these Chinese scientists...

02:48:45.000 My real concern is, and I think this is probably actually happening right now, is the way that people are expressing things online is not entirely organic.

02:48:58.000 I think it's partially organic.

02:49:00.000 But I think it's influenced by foreign entities.

02:49:04.000 I think it's influenced pretty considerably.

02:49:06.000 I think there's a lot of elevating and escalating a lot of the rhetoric.

02:49:12.000 Incentivizing.

02:49:13.000 They're hacking our openness as a system.

02:49:15.000 Yes.

02:49:15.000 I agree with this.

02:49:17.000 Accelerating the rhetoric and pushing the narrative.

02:49:21.000 The thing about this woke ideology that we were talking about before with this forced compliance is that people feel compelled to agree with everything.

02:49:32.000 They feel compelled to go along with whatever the ideology is proposing.

02:49:38.000 I think a bad actor can insert almost like bad code into an operating system.

02:49:47.000 Like a virus into an operating system and accentuate or advance things past the point that just a few years ago would be considered preposterous.

02:49:58.000 And I think that this woke ideology, the way it permeates through academia and the way it doesn't allow for reasonable debate, it doesn't allow for uncomfortable ideas, and it enforces things like safe spaces and And trigger warnings and all this shit that's just not supposed to have anything to do with learning and growing and exploring ideas.

02:50:23.000 That we are empowering what are essentially our economic enemies and our political enemies.

02:50:31.000 We're empowering other countries.

02:50:34.000 I think these things are all connected.

02:50:36.000 And I think the economic motivation that allowed those people to essentially...

02:50:44.000 You know, they essentially cut the Achilles heel of science by making it so that these scientists could only earn a certain amount of money and disincentivizing people who are economically...

02:50:58.000 I want to make scientists reasonably middle class or better.

02:51:03.000 I want men and women who are raising families...

02:51:06.000 I want them not to have to worry about money so they can pursue science.

02:51:09.000 Yes, I want gay couples to be able to raise kids, but I want them in the same state.

02:51:16.000 I know people who are two states away who think that they have jobs close to each other.

02:51:21.000 Okay?

02:51:22.000 What do you mean?

02:51:23.000 Like somebody will have a job in Arizona and somebody will have a job in Wyoming.

02:51:28.000 They think they have jobs.

02:51:29.000 What do you mean by that?

02:51:30.000 Jobs are so scarce that married couples will live in different states. 0.60

02:51:34.000 Oh, scientists.

02:51:35.000 Scientists.

02:51:36.000 Okay, I see what you're saying.

02:51:37.000 Right?

02:51:41.000 I interviewed investigators for the American Society of Cell Biology, and principal investigators who were at the top of the bio pile say, we're supposed to not have children because we have to show that we're serious.

02:51:53.000 Oh, Jesus.

02:51:54.000 One claim was, we make people wait to get tenure into their late 30s and early 40s because some percentage of females discover that motherhood is as interesting as science. 1.00

02:52:08.000 I unearthed so much crazy stuff.

02:52:11.000 People talking about the joys of slave labor.

02:52:14.000 What?

02:52:15.000 You would talk to somebody and say, look, you know, you can say what you want about best and the brightest, but really what I enjoy is having a slave labor force.

02:52:23.000 Americans don't actually listen to directions. 1.00

02:52:26.000 Who the fuck said that? 1.00

02:52:27.000 A particular PI. I don't understand what that means. 1.00

02:52:31.000 What do they mean by that?

02:52:32.000 Somebody is trying to say the system is broken and trying to tell me in an anonymous interview.

02:52:38.000 I worked for the American Society of Cell Biology through the National Bureau of Economic Research and the Sloan Foundation.

02:52:45.000 And I interviewed, I think it was like 25 leading, called Principal Investigators in Biology.

02:52:52.000 And these people told me the most hair-raising things about the nature of biological research.

02:52:58.000 Okay?

02:53:00.000 And I thought, why are you telling me all these things?

02:53:01.000 What does that have to do with slave labor?

02:53:04.000 That the PIs, the heads of labs, need an army of people to do exactly what they say in order to be competitive to win grants and get prizes and publish papers.

02:53:16.000 And they described it as slave labor?

02:53:18.000 Yes, slave labor.

02:53:19.000 They're basically talking about undergraduates?

02:53:21.000 Nope.

02:53:22.000 What are they talking about?

02:53:22.000 Graduate students.

02:53:23.000 Graduate students?

02:53:24.000 Graduate students aren't students.

02:53:26.000 They're a labor force. 0.99

02:53:28.000 They're minimally students.

02:53:31.000 Postdocs and graduate students are a labor force.

02:53:34.000 So the idea is that they provide a service, but ultimately it will lead to them being PhDs and...

02:53:43.000 Yes, but very often what they're really doing, the foreign ones, are very often trying to immigrate. 0.99

02:53:47.000 And so the idea is that the way into the country is that I'm going to contribute N years of labor at a very high level, at a very low price, pretending that I'm not a worker, that I'm a graduate student, China, for example, will get the ability to look at what we're doing because their people are in our labs. 0.66

02:54:08.000 The PI gets low-cost labor to carry out the research.

02:54:15.000 And the system is based on the idea that pliant labor is in an abundant supply.

02:54:21.000 So I forget, like a quarter of PhDs went to China, something like that.

02:54:26.000 And we talk about them as students.

02:54:29.000 So the whole thing is like people want to unionize.

02:54:33.000 How can you have a union of students?

02:54:35.000 They're students.

02:54:36.000 Well, really, they're a cryptic labor force.

02:54:39.000 The work that's getting done is being done by the students who are really not students.

02:54:44.000 You're a student probably for the first year or two of graduate school.

02:54:47.000 Then you're a worker.

02:54:50.000 So the whole thing is completely corrupt.

02:54:53.000 It's cryptic.

02:54:54.000 There's like a system called fringe rates.

02:54:56.000 There's a system called overhead.

02:54:58.000 It's funny money through and through.

02:55:01.000 And this whole thing is organized so that senior principal investigators, PIs, can run their careers with these labor forces.

02:55:10.000 And then they take pictures and they say, look at our lab and how wonderfully international it is.

02:55:15.000 But what they're really selling is immigration.

02:55:18.000 Whoa.

02:55:19.000 Right?

02:55:20.000 So this is why the National Academy and I... This is fucking heavy. 0.99

02:55:24.000 No kidding. 0.98

02:55:25.000 But the point is that we just gave away our technical advantage Because we couldn't get the money to pay for our own labor because we actually have the best and brightest people right here in the States.

02:55:36.000 So these people learn as graduate students on these projects and then take that information and go back overseas.

02:55:43.000 Or they stay here and they have a very strong tie because very often our professors, in order to remain competitive, have to take on this kind of science knows no boundaries.

02:55:55.000 Well, if science knows no boundaries, why are our tax dollars supporting it?

02:55:58.000 So this is how you get to a situation like where the World Health Organization refuses to say the name Taiwan.

02:56:04.000 Exactly.

02:56:05.000 Because they're so economically...

02:56:08.000 And our people are not...

02:56:10.000 I have this quote, which is very difficult for people, but it says, the idealism of every age is the cover story of its greatest thefts.

02:56:19.000 And one of the greatest threats is science is international.

02:56:24.000 Science is international.

02:56:25.000 A result that's true about a virus is true in one place and true in another, you know?

02:56:29.000 Right.

02:56:30.000 Same thing about a theorem.

02:56:31.000 But we maintain a national science program in part to give us advantage.

02:56:39.000 Economic advantage, military advantage.

02:56:41.000 We've got all the smartest people on retainer.

02:56:43.000 And they're squandering that.

02:56:44.000 And what we've done... 1.00

02:56:46.000 You see, I want China to say, shit, we're cut off from the benefits of freedom. 0.99

02:56:52.000 We're going to have to free up our own people. 0.99

02:56:54.000 If we want top-tier science, we can't do this totalitarian stuff anymore.

02:57:00.000 The same way they've sort of opened up their economy to a version of capitalism.

02:57:03.000 A version.

02:57:04.000 To encourage competition.

02:57:05.000 And I want to say, look, I don't want to fear you. 1.00

02:57:09.000 I want you to be more open to your people with their middle fingers up telling you to go fuck yourselves. 0.99

02:57:16.000 And in order to get that freedom, remember Tiananmen Square and the Statue of Liberty and all that kind of stuff? 0.99

02:57:21.000 In order to get that, we can't give them the benefits of both systems.

02:57:25.000 What we've done is we've given them the benefits of freedom by taking all the stuff that they can see that we're doing, and then they have all the benefits of command and control.

02:57:35.000 So they execute like crazy and they listen through their people here.

02:57:42.000 And then they build, you know, programs where people go back and forth.

02:57:46.000 And so what we're doing is we have a group of people who are so idealistic.

02:57:50.000 I can't see these boundaries.

02:57:53.000 I can't believe you're bringing up the specter of nationalism.

02:57:57.000 Okay, well, this is the idealism is the cover story of a theft.

02:58:00.000 The theft is Is that we have the greatest educational system.

02:58:04.000 We train the best people.

02:58:06.000 We have high schools in New York that have won more Nobel Prizes in science than all of China.

02:58:11.000 And we are destroying ourselves lying that Americans can't do science.

02:58:18.000 I see your complaint, but what can be done about it? 0.96

02:58:21.000 Well, one thing is, is that if I have a friend who has a ridiculously large podcast, I can go on about once a year, and I can say crazy shit, and then maybe, maybe, somebody will write about this. 0.71

02:58:34.000 Good luck finding that. 0.92

02:58:35.000 I know.

02:58:37.000 Joe?

02:58:38.000 That's a pie in the sky right there.

02:58:40.000 I don't know what to do about it, but what I've been trying to do is...

02:58:42.000 You made a very good point.

02:58:44.000 It's really interesting because I didn't know it worked that way.

02:58:46.000 And the way you describe graduate students is essentially almost like indentured servants.

02:58:51.000 Well, this is the thing about, this is why Iz and I lost our friendship, is that I tried to say, let's think about what's really going on.

02:59:00.000 And he looked at it and he's just like, I can't go there.

02:59:04.000 In fact, he said to me at some point, it's like, I'm not saying you're wrong.

02:59:06.000 I'm just saying, I can't.

02:59:09.000 Because he's too embedded into the system.

02:59:12.000 Because he, look, this is a guy who made the system run. 0.98

02:59:18.000 If you're proud of our universities, if you're proud of our government, if you're proud of journalism in a previous era, this was the kind of a guy who would break the sons of bitches who would do bad things. 1.00

02:59:31.000 He cleared stuff out of people's way. 0.91

02:59:33.000 He knew who was naughty and who was nice, and he made sure that his people survived.

02:59:39.000 There's another thing, though.

02:59:40.000 It's like rebellion is a young man's endeavor.

02:59:43.000 At a certain point in time, a man gets settled into his life and his position and who he is, and, you know, it's hard to...

02:59:52.000 I'm not bitching about him.

02:59:53.000 I understand exactly why he did what he did.

02:59:55.000 I know you're not.

02:59:56.000 But it, you know...

02:59:58.000 I think what you said is very important. 0.99

03:00:02.000 There's a lot of shit you said that I don't understand at all. 0.99

03:00:04.000 I just let you talk. 1.00

03:00:06.000 I don't know why you got hair ties on your fucking thing here. 0.99

03:00:10.000 Because those are one degree of freedom as you push them up and down. 0.99

03:00:15.000 Remember three degrees of freedom?

03:00:16.000 I opened up a can of worms.

03:00:18.000 You should check out pullthatupjamie.com You should stay off Clubhouse.

03:00:22.000 How about that?

03:00:23.000 I have been largely staying off Clubhouse.

03:00:27.000 So do I have a regular gig here Monday, Wednesday, and Friday?

03:00:29.000 When are you coming back?

03:00:31.000 Anytime, brother.

03:00:31.000 You've got to get out of LA, though, before it implodes.

03:00:34.000 They're falling apart.

03:00:35.000 They killed their gang unit today.

03:00:36.000 You know that?

03:00:36.000 Oh, no.

03:00:37.000 Yeah.

03:00:38.000 I'm waiting to get the Lex Fridman invitation.

03:00:41.000 He's already moved here.

03:00:42.000 He moved here today.

03:00:42.000 No, I know, because you invited him.

03:00:44.000 You haven't told me to move here.

03:00:46.000 You want to move here?

03:00:46.000 No.

03:00:47.000 You should move here.

03:00:47.000 Should I? Everybody should move here.

03:00:49.000 It's awesome.

03:00:50.000 But then nobody should move here, because there's too many people already.

03:00:52.000 Exactly.

03:00:52.000 Traffic is already so hard.

03:00:54.000 Dude, sometimes it takes five extra minutes to get where you have to go.

03:00:58.000 It's crazy.

03:00:59.000 Oh my god, that's terrible, Joe.

03:01:01.000 Traffic here is so cute.

03:01:05.000 They're like, the traffic is crazy.

03:01:08.000 You need to go to Orange County at three o'clock in the afternoon. 1.00

03:01:12.000 Just take that fucking suicide drive. 1.00

03:01:14.000 So who have you got to move here? 1.00

03:01:16.000 You got Suzanne to move here. 0.65

03:01:17.000 You got Lex to move here.

03:01:19.000 Did you do Elon?

03:01:20.000 No, I don't think so.

03:01:21.000 No, Elon was fed up.

03:01:23.000 No.

03:01:24.000 No, Elon and I didn't even talk about it.

03:01:25.000 We both kind of came to the same conclusion organically.

03:01:31.000 I think Holtzman probably moved here because of me.

03:01:34.000 Is Tim Dillon?

03:01:34.000 Tim Dillon moved here because of me for sure.

03:01:36.000 He thought about suing me because when he moved here, the ice storm hit.

03:01:39.000 Tom Segura definitely moved here because of me.

03:01:42.000 There's more.

03:01:43.000 They're coming.

03:01:44.000 There's waves.

03:01:45.000 Once the club opens, then the full wave.

03:01:49.000 Then I'm going to do scholarships.

03:01:51.000 I'm going to do whatever the fuck I can to get people here.

03:01:54.000 I have a plan. 0.98

03:01:55.000 It's a weird plan, but it throbs in my head like a weird sound that only a dog can hear.

03:02:03.000 I have an idea.

03:02:05.000 What's the plan?

03:02:05.000 The plan is to turn this into the hub of stand-up comedy.

03:02:08.000 There's a lot of logic behind it.

03:02:10.000 One of the big pieces of logic is that there's no reason for us to be in Hollywood.

03:02:14.000 The only reason for us to be in Hollywood is we were always chasing sitcoms before.

03:02:19.000 But now if a comic gets a sitcom, it costs you money. 0.99

03:02:22.000 It's a loser. 0.98

03:02:24.000 It's a loser in comparison to a podcast. 0.99

03:02:26.000 And you've got a bunch of suits around you telling you what to do. 0.87

03:02:30.000 Hey, hey, easy on the suits, brother.

03:02:31.000 I have a couple of those.

03:02:33.000 But it's like...

03:02:34.000 I've done it.

03:02:36.000 Yeah.

03:02:54.000 In Hollywood, in terms of acting, actors and television shows.

03:03:01.000 But we are as far from actors as a creative endeavor can be.

03:03:07.000 Comics are as real as you can get.

03:03:10.000 There's no acting.

03:03:11.000 We are the writers, we produce it.

03:03:13.000 Science, music, and comedy.

03:03:14.000 Those are the great signs of intelligence.

03:03:16.000 Well, it's an underappreciated art form.

03:03:20.000 Because you guys are all broken.

03:03:22.000 It's a little bit of that, but it's also because it seems normal.

03:03:25.000 It seems like you're just talking.

03:03:26.000 It's like if I see Gary Clark playing guitar, I go, oh, I definitely can't do that.

03:03:30.000 But if I see someone talking, I go, well, I can talk.

03:03:34.000 He's just talking.

03:03:35.000 He makes some good points, but I can make some good points.

03:03:37.000 The instrument is the instrument that everyone uses all day long, every day.

03:03:42.000 So it gives off the illusion that the art form of communication, of comedy, it gives off this illusion that it's not that big of a deal.

03:03:50.000 Right?

03:03:51.000 But to people that do it, the guys like the Tim Dillons, Giannis Pappas, he's another guy I got to move here.

03:03:57.000 He comes here next week.

03:03:59.000 There's more coming.

03:04:02.000 But the guys who are really doing it, they understand.

03:04:05.000 And they understand that I am really in it for the art form.

03:04:09.000 Genuinely.

03:04:10.000 This is going to be Mecca. 0.92

03:04:11.000 I want it to be.

03:04:12.000 I think it can be.

03:04:13.000 And I think it can be for the good of the art form.

03:04:16.000 Because I think if I can provide a base, like a real home base, where they know...

03:04:21.000 Every comedy club that we've ever had, even though they've been great...

03:04:26.000 They've been run with an economic motivation.

03:04:30.000 Right.

03:04:30.000 This is not going to be run with that.

03:04:32.000 You can afford not to do it.

03:04:33.000 Yeah, I just want to break even.

03:04:34.000 That would be my goal.

03:04:35.000 But if it doesn't break even, I'm okay with that, too.

03:04:37.000 I just want it to be right.

03:04:39.000 I want to set it up right.

03:04:40.000 And once I set it up right, I want everybody to grow.

03:04:44.000 And it's like a gym.

03:04:46.000 If you have a bunch of killers in the gym, you get better.

03:04:50.000 You get better by...

03:04:51.000 Does the music scene here...

03:04:53.000 It enhances it, for sure.

03:04:55.000 Yeah, for sure.

03:04:55.000 People are in that, they've got that muscle pretty strong.

03:04:59.000 Well, it's tight here.

03:05:01.000 It's real good.

03:05:01.000 It's a real good scene.

03:05:03.000 And, you know, Gary also helped me move here, too, because when Gary Clark Jr. Is Gary here?

03:05:07.000 Yeah, he moves here.

03:05:08.000 He lives here. 1.00

03:05:09.000 Shit. 1.00

03:05:09.000 Yeah. 1.00

03:05:10.000 He was here before me, though.

03:05:12.000 He was living in LA, and he and I were talking, and he moved back.

03:05:17.000 And I go, why'd you move back? 0.95

03:05:17.000 He's like, man, I just was not fucking feeling Hollywood, man. 0.95

03:05:20.000 He's like, it's just not me. 0.97

03:05:22.000 I'm from Texas.

03:05:23.000 He goes, I'm a simple dude.

03:05:24.000 I like brisket and Cadillacs and guitars.

03:05:27.000 I mean, that comes forth in his music, the purity of his music.

03:05:32.000 And that made sense to me, and that was before the pandemic.

03:05:35.000 That was before it.

03:05:38.000 Well, Texas Blues, by the way, is its own sub-thing of the blues.

03:05:43.000 I mean, whether it's, I don't know.

03:05:45.000 That place Stubbs, where Chappelle and I were playing?

03:05:47.000 Yeah.

03:05:48.000 Steve Ray Vaughn used to go there and work for food.

03:05:50.000 They used to feed him.

03:05:52.000 That's how he would go out there and play and they would feed him in the early days of his career.

03:05:56.000 I did not know you were a big SRV guy.

03:05:58.000 I'm a huge SRV guy.

03:05:59.000 I used to work out to his music all the time.

03:06:03.000 Are you an Albert King guy?

03:06:06.000 I've heard his music, yeah.

03:06:10.000 I think of Stevie Ray Vaughan as really some major insight on top of a few select voices.

03:06:20.000 I mean, huge amounts of new stuff, but really...

03:06:24.000 The amount drawn from Albert King was pretty amazing.

03:06:29.000 Well, you know, blues all comes from a bunch of different sources, but they all feed off of each other, right?

03:06:36.000 You go all the way back to Robert Johnson, and it's like...

03:06:39.000 That's one of my favorite stories of all time, is that he was so good, everybody thought he sold his soul.

03:06:44.000 And if you go listen to it now, you go, no, he's just good.

03:06:48.000 Oh, I don't know.

03:06:50.000 It's like two records only, right?

03:06:52.000 Yeah, I believe so.

03:06:53.000 And...

03:06:54.000 It's brilliant.

03:06:55.000 But the number of songs, the number of standards that he came up with, even minor ones, like Hellhounds on My Trail and Sweet Home Chicago.

03:07:05.000 He was clearly, especially for the time, like, what year are we talking about with Robert Johnson?

03:07:11.000 20s, 30s?

03:07:12.000 Yeah, so he was clearly on another level.

03:07:15.000 But there's always a LeBron James, you know?

03:07:19.000 There's always some person that's just like...

03:07:22.000 Okay, I think that B.B. King and Albert King, it's sort of hard for us to understand.

03:07:26.000 What about Freddie King?

03:07:27.000 Freddie King is super important, but I think that the issue of bending notes that B.B. and Albert did, and their particular boxes next to each other on the guitar neck...

03:07:40.000 One of them we associate with Albert, which has got meaner and more minor.

03:07:45.000 And the BB box, weirdly, is all about this major minor alteration through bending.

03:07:52.000 You don't hit a note by playing the note.

03:07:54.000 You hit a note underneath and you move up into it.

03:07:57.000 And so it's this vocal articulation and particular kinds of vibrato.

03:08:02.000 And the weird thing about super technical players, like the most, like a John Petrucci or something, is you say, well, who do you revere?

03:08:11.000 And they'll say, B.B. King.

03:08:12.000 And you're like, huh?

03:08:13.000 He played super slow.

03:08:15.000 Well, yeah, but with five or six notes, it'll just break your heart infinitely.

03:08:20.000 You won't care.

03:08:21.000 You'll just stay there.

03:08:22.000 And it's sort of this idea of really deep musicianship that...

03:08:29.000 It took me a lot longer to appreciate Albert because Albert was gritty.

03:08:34.000 It was much more idiosyncratic.

03:08:35.000 He played flying V upside down and backwards, the gauge of the string.

03:08:40.000 Everything was like really weird.

03:08:42.000 And he knew that he was doing everything quote wrong.

03:08:45.000 But I think Stevie Ray Vaughan really just said, okay, this guy has said so much and I'm going to prove it.

03:08:52.000 And I'm going to prove it by building my legacy on top.

03:08:57.000 Of what this guy contributed.

03:08:58.000 I'm going to show you how brilliant this guy was.

03:09:00.000 It changed my mind.

03:09:01.000 I think that's one of the interesting things about any genre, is that people piggyback on the work of others.

03:09:06.000 It's clearly the case with comedy.

03:09:09.000 Who would you say are your greatest influences?

03:09:12.000 Well, everybody comes from Lenny Bruce.

03:09:14.000 Everybody.

03:09:15.000 All of us.

03:09:16.000 Lenny Bruce kicked open the door.

03:09:18.000 He's the Robert Johnson.

03:09:19.000 He's the guy who started it all off.

03:09:22.000 But it's hard because comedy is not...

03:09:26.000 It's hard to listen to Lenny Bruce today.

03:09:29.000 You listen to Pryor today.

03:09:31.000 I think Pryor took what Lenny Bruce was doing and made it a lot funnier.

03:09:36.000 Pryor figured out a way to just be more vulnerable and more self-deprecating and personal.

03:09:44.000 He figured out a way to just be more honest.

03:09:48.000 Not that Lenny Bruce wasn't honest, but it just wasn't as exposed as Pryor was.

03:09:52.000 Pryor still to this day is hilarious.

03:09:54.000 He's one of the few guys that it resonates today.

03:09:57.000 You go and listen to old Pryor, it's still really funny.

03:10:01.000 Whereas Lenny Bruce is like, you've got to kind of put yourself in the times of Lenny Bruce.

03:10:07.000 You've got to put yourself in the 50s and 60s and try to imagine what it was like to be in this incredibly suppressed...

03:10:13.000 I think so much of what I believe was important about the 50s is that jazz and comedy and a few of these things, like maybe beat poetry, were so dependent on the oppression of the normies...

03:10:27.000 Right?

03:10:28.000 There were these just islands of magic.

03:10:32.000 And they were so oppressed that things that are standard to us today were just revolutionary to them.

03:10:37.000 Well, that's the thing, is that I listen for what these guys were doing, and I think about there were these...

03:10:47.000 Math and physics seminars in the Soviet Union that we did not understand were entirely dependent upon the fact that everything in the Soviet Union sucked. 0.99

03:10:55.000 And so that you could go to these places and say, here's an island of transcendence in a sea of shit, right? 0.93

03:11:02.000 And so in a weird way, I think the U.S. had this, and I don't know if I mentioned this to you before, at some point they held San Francisco Home Movie Night at the Castro Theater and I went. 0.95

03:11:14.000 And they asked everyone to send their old home movies of San Francisco.

03:11:18.000 And people were filing out of Candlestick Park or something in 1962. And I noticed that half the people looked like modern human beings and half of them had that glazed look that you'd have with a formal hat on your head and like a suit jacket that you associate with photographs from like an earlier time.

03:11:36.000 And so it was like you were looking at cardboard cutouts and modern human beings simultaneously.

03:11:42.000 So a melding of the times.

03:11:43.000 Yeah, that there was some transitional thing.

03:11:45.000 Like if you ever watch Albert Einstein, everybody's in a suit and tie and he's in a sweatshirt.

03:11:50.000 Yeah.

03:11:50.000 And you're thinking like, wait, you were in a sweatshirt when everyone else was doing something else.

03:11:55.000 Yeah.

03:11:56.000 There is sort of almost no trace of this.

03:11:58.000 And George Thorogood was the guy who said, when I saw the Beatles on Ed Sullivan, He said, it was the first time I saw young people having fun in public on TV. Like, just not performatively.

03:12:10.000 They were just having a blast.

03:12:12.000 And I didn't realize the extent to which this was the oppression that animated the Lenny Bruce milieu.

03:12:19.000 And, you know, if you were going to see Lenny Tristano or, you know, Dizzy Gillespie or Bud Powell, you know, like, if you just think about the beginning of Howl, you know, this thing about I've seen the best minds of my generation, blah, blah, blah.

03:12:33.000 People are seeking something authentic and real, and the hippies aren't yet.

03:12:38.000 You know, we just lost Lawrence Ferlinghetti, the great last beat poet of the City Lights bookstore in San Francisco.

03:12:45.000 I don't know how he lasted this long, over 100, I think.

03:12:49.000 I think we forget about the beats as important to that time.

03:12:55.000 Well, I think people are being suppressed in a different way now.

03:12:58.000 I agree.

03:12:59.000 They're being suppressed by people that purport to be intellectually open-minded and progressive.

03:13:04.000 And it's not necessarily true.

03:13:06.000 And there's a suppression on the other side of that.

03:13:08.000 And unfortunately, a lot of people are embracing, like, far right-wing ideology to combat that because they feel pushed into a corner.

03:13:16.000 And there's a different kind of pressure.

03:13:19.000 But it's always pressure to get people to conform.

03:13:24.000 Pressure to get people to comply.

03:13:26.000 It's always pressure to get people to accept an ideology or a way of life that they don't like.

03:13:30.000 A comedian takes the opposite angle.

03:13:32.000 The pressure to think for yourself.

03:13:35.000 That's what we do.

03:13:36.000 That's the job.

03:13:37.000 But why is it the thing that you said to me that really still resonates is you said, for a while we couldn't figure out how to tell jokes.

03:13:43.000 I really remember this.

03:13:45.000 You were saying we would go to college campuses and it wouldn't work.

03:13:48.000 And then we gradually realized how you had to tell a joke and then it became the golden age of comedy.

03:13:54.000 This is a conversation you and I had.

03:13:55.000 I think what's going on right now is a good thing for comedy because comedy has become radioactive and certain words are forbidden but that just makes it so that you have to figure out a more clever way to describe things in a way that resonates with people better in a way where While also being funny,

03:14:16.000 you're figuring out a way to let these people know you're a good person. 1.00

03:14:19.000 You're a good person, but you're talking shit. 0.99

03:14:22.000 So what confuses me is, I would imagine that our comedy right now and our music right now would be as good as they've been for a long time. 0.99

03:14:31.000 And I think our comedy is pretty amazing.

03:14:34.000 And I think our music is not hitting the same heights.

03:14:36.000 I don't know that.

03:14:37.000 I don't know that.

03:14:39.000 If you just look at musical complexity, there's been all these recent studies about what is the...

03:14:44.000 Maybe music needs some repression.

03:14:49.000 I think repression ultimately, look at what happened in the 60s.

03:14:53.000 It was responsible.

03:14:55.000 It came out of the repression of the 50s.

03:14:58.000 I think that's real.

03:14:59.000 I think we need an opponent.

03:15:00.000 We need an antagonist and a protagonist.

03:15:04.000 We need a yin and a yang.

03:15:05.000 What people don't understand about my reaction to WAP is...

03:15:09.000 Do you have a reaction to WAP? Oh yeah, for sure.

03:15:11.000 Just say wit-ass pussy. 1.00

03:15:12.000 Can you say that? 1.00

03:15:13.000 Say that for me.

03:15:15.000 Say it for me. 1.00

03:15:16.000 Wit-ass pussy. 1.00

03:15:16.000 There you go. 1.00

03:15:17.000 Can you see how you went off mic?

03:15:25.000 My reaction is the same as my reaction to Lil Nas X giving Satan a lap dance.

03:15:31.000 Like, you go, girl. 0.64

03:15:33.000 That's my reaction.

03:15:34.000 Same reaction.

03:15:35.000 My reaction is you're screwing up the repression angle. 0.99

03:15:39.000 If you want to say something like wet-ass pussy, you want to do it in a way that you're frustrating it and making it difficult, so you have to work for it. 0.99

03:15:50.000 Just saying it. 1.00

03:15:51.000 Yeah, but you can say it.

03:15:52.000 It's just like it's a wave, man.

03:15:54.000 It's coming in.

03:15:55.000 It's going out.

03:15:56.000 It's splashing against the rocks.

03:15:57.000 You kids and your waves.

03:15:59.000 It's chaos.

03:16:00.000 I hate it.

03:16:01.000 Mr. Weinstein. 0.68

03:16:02.000 Get off my lawn.

03:16:03.000 All right.

03:16:03.000 I got to wrap this up.

03:16:04.000 I love you.

03:16:05.000 Thank you for being here.

03:16:06.000 You have an open invitation.

03:16:07.000 You know this?

03:16:08.000 You're the best.

03:16:08.000 Next time, no hair ties.

03:16:10.000 I don't know what the fuck's going on with that. 0.98

03:16:12.000 Check out. 0.99

03:16:13.000 Check out Eric on Clubhouse.

03:16:15.000 He's there 24-7.

03:16:17.000 Stop it.

03:16:19.000 And you get a great podcast, too.

03:16:21.000 Tell everybody where they can get that.

03:16:23.000 They'll figure it out.

03:16:24.000 It's everywhere.

03:16:25.000 The portal.

03:16:26.000 It's everywhere.

03:16:26.000 The portal.

03:16:27.000 You got it on...

03:16:28.000 Is it on YouTube?

03:16:28.000 It's on YouTube.

03:16:29.000 I should be...

03:16:30.000 Do you have images?

03:16:31.000 I'm going to go back to...

03:16:32.000 Do you have video on YouTube?

03:16:34.000 I've got talkies.

03:16:35.000 No, but I mean, I know mostly you do audio, right?

03:16:39.000 I had been avoiding the studio.

03:16:41.000 I didn't like the idea of doing...

03:16:43.000 I don't like Skype interviews much.

03:16:45.000 Right, I don't either.

03:16:46.000 So I tried to wait it out in part.

03:16:49.000 I'm going to go back to doing real interviews and...

03:16:52.000 Just vaccinate people.

03:16:53.000 All right.

03:16:54.000 Tell them to wear three masks. 1.00

03:16:55.000 Who gives a fuck? 1.00

03:16:56.000 Get in studio, you freaks. 1.00

03:16:57.000 All right.

03:16:58.000 I love you, buddy.

03:16:58.000 Thank you.

03:16:59.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - April 02, 2021

Joe Rogan Experience #1628 - Eric Weinstein

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Transcript