The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1696 - Lex Fridman

00:00:08.000 Hey, I saw that box that you have in your Instagram.

00:00:15.000 Is that a robot?

00:00:16.000 Yeah, it's a robot.

00:00:18.000 That's what said, consciousness is not included.

00:00:19.000 I'm like, uh, I see what you're doing here.

00:00:21.000 What's in the box?

00:00:22.000 What's in the box, man?

00:00:24.000 What's in the box?

00:00:24.000 That's a great movie, by the way.

00:00:26.000 It's a dark movie.

00:00:26.000 It's a great movie.

00:00:28.000 Yeah, no, it's a legged robot, and I've been involved with those a lot recently, and I'm going to explore...

00:00:35.000 I was going to bring it here, but I thought this is the wrong...

00:00:39.000 The other robot I have is the wrong atmosphere.

00:00:41.000 Is it a Boston Dynamics one?

00:00:44.000 So I've been closely working with Boston Dynamics, and how do I put it?

00:00:49.000 I put a lot of my love into what they're doing for a few years.

00:00:53.000 I love the engineers there.

00:00:55.000 We're close.

00:00:56.000 We like each other.

00:00:58.000 I hear a but coming.

00:00:59.000 Let me politely say that they're also a company that are trying to make money.

00:01:04.000 And so there's a marketing team, there's PR, and they're starting getting in the way of engineers.

00:01:10.000 And whenever marketing people get in the way of engineering, I'm out.

00:01:14.000 And so there's a lot of robotics companies.

00:01:16.000 It was kind of heartbreaking for me because how much I love that company.

00:01:19.000 In what way did they get in the way?

00:01:21.000 So, very specifically, I'm interested in the problem of human-robot interaction, where there's this beautiful dance between a human and a robot.

00:01:31.000 The same way you have a dog that you love playing with.

00:01:34.000 There's a magic there.

00:01:35.000 I don't know.

00:01:36.000 There's an excitement when Marshall looks at you and looks away and then looks at you again.

00:01:41.000 And just that excitement, I want to understand how we can engineer that into our AI systems.

00:01:46.000 So that's called human-robot interaction.

00:01:49.000 From a perspective of Boston Dynamics, they want a machine that doesn't have anything to do with humans.

00:01:54.000 They want a machine that patrols a factory looking for anything dangerous, or does surveillance on a factory floor, or helps in dangerous environments where it's too dangerous for humans, so you want a robot to do the work.

00:02:10.000 You want always there to be a distance between a human and a robot.

00:02:14.000 For me, I'm interested in exploring When human and robot close together.

00:02:19.000 And I think that's actually really important to understand for safety as well.

00:02:23.000 Robots should be able to detect and predict the movement of humans really well in order to avoid hurting them accidentally.

00:02:31.000 Like that's a robotics AI problem.

00:02:33.000 You know, it's predicting the movement of pedestrians, predicting the movement of humans, whether it's the human body or the human hand on the factory floor.

00:02:42.000 You have to understand the mind of humans.

00:02:46.000 They don't move like billiard balls.

00:02:49.000 They move in unpredictable, complicated ways.

00:02:52.000 Or rather, predictable but complicated ways.

00:02:56.000 And that's the problem of human-robot interaction that I think is beautiful.

00:02:59.000 Not very many people are really studying it carefully.

00:03:03.000 And I wanted to study it carefully.

00:03:06.000 One of the things I did, and you always learn this mistake the hard way, is I asked for permission on everything.

00:03:15.000 The right way to do it is just to do it and apologize later.

00:03:19.000 Permission for what kind of actions?

00:03:21.000 So permission for the kind of things I wanted to do.

00:03:23.000 So I asked for permission to, on video, touch Spot.

00:03:28.000 Touch it?

00:03:29.000 Yeah, like as a human.

00:03:31.000 So I wanted Spot to understand when a human touches it or not, and using only vision.

00:03:37.000 Right, because there's no sensors that can detect touch, right?

00:03:40.000 So to have a sense where gestures and touch can be part of the communication between the robot and the human.

00:03:40.000 Right.

00:03:51.000 Telling them, the Boston Dynamics folks, that made them very nervous. 0.97

00:03:56.000 They know I know what I'm doing, but they also know I'm starting to give less and less fucks.

00:04:03.000 And they get nervous about that because they see the positivity.

00:04:07.000 I love people.

00:04:08.000 I love robots.

00:04:09.000 I want to show the positive stuff.

00:04:11.000 I want to inspire and educate the world.

00:04:13.000 But they're like, is there some evil thing he's going to do?

00:04:16.000 What do they think you're going to do?

00:04:17.000 Well, it's like they only have stuff to lose.

00:04:21.000 From my perspective, I love Boston Dynamics.

00:04:25.000 I want to show off some awesome stuff with probably one of the greatest engineering feats in the space of robotics ever, which is both Atlas, the bipedal robot, and the Spot, the legged robots.

00:04:38.000 I don't know.

00:04:39.000 From my perspective, it's a win-win.

00:04:41.000 From their perspective, they got nervous.

00:04:43.000 I don't understand why they would get nervous about touching the robot.

00:04:48.000 That doesn't make any sense to me.

00:04:50.000 Because they're a business, they're trying to sell a lot of robots to companies that have zero interest in touching.

00:04:57.000 I think the future of their robot requires them to understand what it's like for a robot to be close to a human being.

00:05:06.000 So you're looking at it in terms of like a consumer product?

00:05:10.000 It's like in the gray area between industry and consumer.

00:05:15.000 So like, you know, a factory worker is a kind of consumer.

00:05:19.000 So like more and more, I think Boston Dynamics need to pivot that way in order to be a successful, profitable business.

00:05:25.000 They were currently purchased by, I think, Hyundai, like a large company.

00:05:30.000 So they're, I think, trying to justify their worth, all that kind of stuff.

00:05:34.000 I'm not sure how businesses work.

00:05:36.000 All I know is when marketing people get in the way of great engineering, you run into problems.

00:05:40.000 This is why, sorry to interrupt, why Tesla, I'm a huge fan of what Elon is doing.

00:05:47.000 He's not letting marketing get in the way of great engineering.

00:05:51.000 There's very little marketing people at Tesla.

00:05:54.000 And most of the ones that do marketing, first of all, Elon does great marketing on his Twitter.

00:05:59.000 But also the Tesla Twitters run really well marketing-wise.

00:06:02.000 They understand that to highlight the brilliance of a particular product, you have to highlight the engineering.

00:06:10.000 You have to highlight the design, and that means you don't want to get in the way of the engineers and the designers.

00:06:16.000 Well, here's the best example of that.

00:06:17.000 There's zero advertisements for Tesla and is the number one selling car in America.

00:06:24.000 There you go.

00:06:25.000 Yeah.

00:06:25.000 It's just brilliantly made.

00:06:27.000 That's all you need to know.

00:06:28.000 I mean, everyone knows.

00:06:30.000 You drive it. 1.00

00:06:31.000 You're like, holy shit. 1.00

00:06:32.000 You see it. 1.00

00:06:33.000 It's wild.

00:06:34.000 You see the giant screen, and you realize that it can move that fast with no sound.

00:06:40.000 It's pretty phenomenal stuff.

00:06:41.000 When you consider the fact that the most...

00:06:43.000 I mean, think about most cars that are sold in America.

00:06:47.000 You're inundated with advertisement.

00:06:50.000 Whether it's Cadillac or Ford or whatever, there's constant ads.

00:06:56.000 They make great cars, don't get me wrong, but Tesla doesn't have any ads and they sell more than anybody, which is pretty incredible.

00:07:03.000 Create a product that people love and it's word of mouth from there.

00:07:06.000 I think it's also connected to Elon, too.

00:07:08.000 I don't think it would be as successful if it wasn't connected to such a bizarre Tony Stark-type character.

00:07:14.000 Because he's such a unique cultural...

00:07:18.000 He's an iconic figure.

00:07:21.000 He's not a normal human.

00:07:23.000 It's like, he's our super genius.

00:07:23.000 You know?

00:07:26.000 Well, it's interesting to analyze them, right?

00:07:29.000 Like, are all the memes about Doge useful, or are they productive or counterproductive?

00:07:35.000 Like, is the humor help advertise SpaceX and Tesla, or does it destroy them?

00:07:42.000 Is the funding secured, 420, help or hurt?

00:07:46.000 Does him smoking weed on your show and then saying, oops, does that help or hurt?

00:07:53.000 I don't know.

00:07:53.000 It does not hurt.

00:07:55.000 Yeah, it feels like it helps.

00:07:56.000 How could it hurt if the company's doing so well?

00:08:00.000 You tell me you'd be doing even better?

00:08:03.000 That sounds crazy.

00:08:04.000 Well, a lot of most CEOs would say yes.

00:08:07.000 They're wrong.

00:08:08.000 Right.

00:08:08.000 The sense is they're wrong, but that means you have to rethink the way you run companies.

00:08:13.000 You have to be more open.

00:08:14.000 You have to have more fun. 0.97

00:08:15.000 You have to be more crazy. 0.89

00:08:17.000 But you have to be Elon Musk. 0.99

00:08:18.000 That's the thing.

00:08:19.000 You can't just get another person to do it that way.

00:08:22.000 You have to be that guy. 0.93

00:08:23.000 Being crazy is not enough. 0.99

00:08:25.000 Well, his whole thing is his love of space balls. 0.99

00:08:29.000 Yeah, it's genuine. 0.60

00:08:31.000 Yeah, genuine love of space balls.

00:08:33.000 The reason why he created the flamethrower, not a flamethrower, the reason why he created the new Model S and called it the Plaid.

00:08:41.000 This is all space ball stuff.

00:08:43.000 He even changed the shape of his rocket to look more like space balls.

00:08:49.000 I mean, it doesn't even make sense.

00:08:51.000 It's awesome.

00:08:51.000 But again, you're not going to recreate that artificially.

00:08:56.000 It has to actually genuinely, naturally, organically be that guy, and that's who he is.

00:09:02.000 But you have to allow people like that to rise to the top in all spaces of leadership.

00:09:06.000 I see in politics, I don't know, Andrew Yang, somebody like that.

00:09:10.000 Somebody who doesn't look like the past.

00:09:13.000 And Elon Musk certainly doesn't look like the past in terms of CEOs.

00:09:16.000 By the way, I know you're not a huge fan of Autopilot, or don't use it very often, but they have, because I want to squeeze in AI a little bit, they have Autonomy Day in a few days, Tesla does, and they're going to, they've been doing,

00:09:32.000 I don't know if you've been paying attention, but they've been doing a lot of interesting stuff on the semi-autonomous, autonomous driving side.

00:09:40.000 So one of the crazy things they're doing that I never thought would be possible is to use vision only for their FSD, for their autopilot, meaning cameras only.

00:09:54.000 Talking about breaking with the ways of the past.

00:09:57.000 So in the past, you always have radar.

00:09:59.000 You have more, quote unquote, reliable sensors for emergency situations.

00:10:05.000 For emergency braking.

00:10:08.000 So here, Tesla is using only cameras, so only vision.

00:10:12.000 The logic there is our roads are all designed for human eyes, therefore you should be able to drive with only visual information.

00:10:20.000 The problem is with rain, with fog, with all those conditions, with night, how are you going to be able to do it?

00:10:26.000 The fact that they're doing so much more successful than I would expect is quite incredible from an NAI perspective.

00:10:35.000 And they're just going full steam ahead there with something called Dojo, which is...

00:10:41.000 I don't know if you know how this whole process works, but...

00:10:45.000 They're basically deploying a version of autopilot software to a fleet of vehicles.

00:10:51.000 Those cars are driving, sometimes by humans, sometimes by AI. And then whenever AI runs into trouble, that's a little data point that they send back to the mothership.

00:11:02.000 And then it retrains the system, and the system gets smarter and smarter, and then redeploys a smarter version.

00:11:08.000 So there's this loop.

00:11:09.000 They call it the data engine.

00:11:11.000 This loop, it sounds maybe trivial, but it's one of the first large-scale implementation of an AI system in the world that does this kind of loop.

00:11:21.000 So it's not...

00:11:22.000 oftentimes when you deploy these kinds of systems, you deploy them, and the time between versions is like years.

00:11:29.000 You have to basically buy a new smartphone or something like that.

00:11:31.000 Here, the time between new versions is every week.

00:11:35.000 I think every Friday they're releasing a new version, something like that, which is a, you know, it's a revolutionary idea.

00:11:43.000 It sounds ridiculously simple, but it's revolutionary in that as opposed to deploying a perfect system, you deploy a system that's not perfect, and then it improves over time and converges towards something that's safer than human drivers.

00:11:57.000 That's fascinating.

00:11:58.000 And then the Dojo computer is they're building their own huge system that's doing the training.

00:12:03.000 So to train neural networks or AI systems, you have to have specialized hardware.

00:12:09.000 So, Elon, this is another really interesting lesson for companies, especially car companies.

00:12:14.000 As opposed to outsourcing the work to other companies, you do it all in-house.

00:12:19.000 So if you look at the history of Tesla, at first it was distributed across other suppliers and so on, but they're doing more and more and more in-house.

00:12:29.000 I think that the dream is you have a single factory, like here, Giga in Austin, Texas, where the input is raw materials and the output is a finished car.

00:12:39.000 And they're doing the same thing with the AI. They don't want to use GPUs and computers from somebody else.

00:12:45.000 They want to have that in-house.

00:12:47.000 So the whole thing is like this organism that takes in raw materials and produces intelligent vehicles.

00:12:55.000 I love that he called it Dojo.

00:12:57.000 Dojo, yeah.

00:12:58.000 The guy has a knack for names. 0.97

00:13:01.000 Some of them are ridiculous, but that's the point. 0.99

00:13:03.000 What's the most ridiculous one? 0.96

00:13:07.000 So, a lot of references to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. 0.95

00:13:11.000 Yeah?

00:13:12.000 Like what?

00:13:14.000 I'm trying to think.

00:13:15.000 The naming of the ships, of the ships that catch the rockets.

00:13:21.000 I'm blanking on their names.

00:13:23.000 It's like, I love you too, or something like that.

00:13:27.000 It's references to all these sci-fi books, which, by the way, I've been tormented by people on the internet to read more sci-fi.

00:13:34.000 I unfortunately have...

00:13:35.000 How do you have the time?

00:13:37.000 Oh, speaking of which...

00:13:39.000 You're doing like a book a day?

00:13:41.000 Yeah.

00:13:41.000 Andrew Huberman is coming to town and he's doing this thing that like, I don't know, it's like Stephen King style thing where he's just locking himself in a room and writing.

00:13:52.000 He has to finish his, he's working on a book, some like science related book.

00:13:57.000 He's a brilliant guy.

00:13:58.000 So he's just going to sit there and write.

00:14:00.000 Is that how King does it?

00:14:01.000 He locks himself in a room?

00:14:02.000 With all great writers, right?

00:14:03.000 They go to, like, some weird ritual of, like, you know, every morning for four hours, they go into a cabin with a typewriter.

00:14:12.000 Like, they all have a ritual, like a routine. 0.92

00:14:15.000 Writers are insane. 0.57

00:14:16.000 I think that's the hardest.

00:14:18.000 I guess you do the same thing for comedy.

00:14:20.000 You don't have to do many hours of it, but it can be torture, which is why many people avoid it.

00:14:25.000 You have to go in front of a blank sheet of paper or some version of that, and you have to write.

00:14:31.000 It's not torture.

00:14:32.000 It is not torture.

00:14:34.000 It's procrastination. 0.77

00:14:36.000 People have this issue with getting things started.

00:14:39.000 Right.

00:14:40.000 It literally is just training the mind.

00:14:42.000 It's training the mind to...

00:14:44.000 That's how you get things done.

00:14:47.000 I mean, literally, it's all it is.

00:14:49.000 You're not letting yourself...

00:14:50.000 You're somebody that just destroys yourself on a treadmill and kettlebells.

00:14:54.000 So you're not allowing yourself to not get started at something difficult.

00:14:59.000 Yeah, but that's...

00:15:00.000 It's just a...

00:15:01.000 It's just...

00:15:04.000 You have to have real clear boundaries, what you'll tolerate from yourself.

00:15:09.000 And if you don't, then you'll just procrastinate to the end of time.

00:15:13.000 And I know a lot of guys do that.

00:15:14.000 Like Louis C.K. has an interesting approach to comedy writing.

00:15:17.000 He doesn't have a Wi-Fi connection and a laptop that he uses that he writes on.

00:15:23.000 So when he writes, he has to just write.

00:15:26.000 He can't just go, oh, let me look at porn.

00:15:28.000 Oh, let me look at this and let me look at that.

00:15:30.000 That's a real problem with people where they just find things to do other than the actual work itself.

00:15:40.000 Like if you had a typewriter, but typewriters are whack.

00:15:44.000 It's probably okay, but then you gotta reprint it?

00:15:48.000 How are you gonna put it on a computer?

00:15:50.000 What are you gonna do? 0.90

00:15:51.000 But I know guys who write on a typewriter because they don't want to fuck with anything electronic where they have this potential for distraction.

00:16:03.000 I know guys who write longhand for that reason, too.

00:16:05.000 They just have a notebook and they write it out on notepaper.

00:16:08.000 But then again, what if you lose your notebook?

00:16:10.000 Yeah, I still write letters.

00:16:12.000 But when you look at something like Huberman, there's hundreds if not thousands of references.

00:16:16.000 So he has to kind of, unfortunately, he needs the computer.

00:16:20.000 And there's a different challenge to be able to use the internet effectively without looking at the porn.

00:16:24.000 It always goes back to the porn.

00:16:26.000 But I'm doing this little experiment.

00:16:30.000 I'm just disconnecting from the world and going to read 12 to 14 hours a day.

00:16:35.000 It's been a while since I did that.

00:16:38.000 I'll do like an hour or two a day, often audiobooks, that kind of thing.

00:16:42.000 I'm just going back to- 12 hours a day?

00:16:44.000 Really?

00:16:45.000 Just reading 12 hours a day or writing as well?

00:16:47.000 Writing notes about it.

00:16:50.000 Just thinking.

00:16:51.000 I see books, especially those kinds.

00:16:55.000 It's like the classics from The Stranger by Camus, Brave New World.

00:17:03.000 Oh, these are your books.

00:17:05.000 Some of them are the ones I was thinking about.

00:17:07.000 Meditations by Marcus Aurelius.

00:17:09.000 I just was reading that.

00:17:11.000 It's really wild.

00:17:13.000 When you think about how long ago that guy lived and how applicable some of his thoughts are today.

00:17:19.000 Yeah.

00:17:20.000 I mean, the same as with Book of Five Rings and Underwar, right? 0.80

00:17:23.000 It's been forever.

00:17:25.000 I mean, a lot of these books I've already read.

00:17:27.000 I'm sort of rereading them.

00:17:28.000 The way I think about books is to kind of travel.

00:17:32.000 So you're like traveling to a place.

00:17:35.000 Like Man's Search for Meaning with Viktor Frankl is the Holocaust and is the story of a man in a concentration camp finding meaning and beauty in a moment of suffering.

00:17:47.000 And so you're...

00:17:48.000 Like, that, you're traveling with him to that concentration camp, and you're there.

00:17:56.000 And then if you, you know, if you only read for like 30 minutes, you don't get a chance to fully immerse.

00:18:01.000 If you just stay there and you travel there, it can, I don't know, it can really change you.

00:18:07.000 Or at least in the past, this has really kind of transformed your mind.

00:18:10.000 I watched Restrepo last night because of what's going on in Afghanistan.

00:18:16.000 Do you know Restrepo Sebastian Junger's film on Afghanistan?

00:18:21.000 Just sort of...

00:18:21.000 Yeah.

00:18:24.000 Just put it in perspective, like what's going on over there now.

00:18:28.000 And it's, you know, I mean, books are amazing for putting things into perspective, but there's something about a documentary, especially a boots-on-the-ground documentary by a journalist like Sebastian Junger in Afghanistan while Afghanistan is falling to the Taliban.

00:18:44.000 So it feels so...

00:18:46.000 It's so intense when you're watching it and you see, you know, guys in the beginning of the film that wind up dying.

00:18:52.000 And it's...

00:18:55.000 First of all, I forgot, like I think you have a sense of what they mean when they talk about these mountainous areas, this mountainous terrain that's impossible really to control because it's very difficult to traverse,

00:19:12.000 very difficult to get around.

00:19:13.000 I don't think you really understand it until you watch that film, until you really see the mountains and you're like, oh god, like how is anybody ever going to control this area?

00:19:23.000 No wonder why the Soviets failed.

00:19:25.000 No wonder why we failed.

00:19:27.000 No wonder why the people that live there, they're living in an incredibly difficult environment in terms of just getting around.

00:19:41.000 Mm-hmm.

00:19:42.000 Yeah, I remember some statistics about like 99% of people in Afghanistan, Afghanistan, no, I sound like Brian Callen.

00:19:50.000 Afghanistan.

00:19:54.000 Iran, Iran, yeah, I never know how to say it.

00:19:57.000 I remember like 99% of them didn't know 9-11 happened.

00:20:02.000 So, like, they're completely disconnected from the world, even...

00:20:05.000 That's so crazy.

00:20:06.000 Like, even things that seem relevant to...

00:20:10.000 Did you watch the videos today of people trying to climb aboard planes and falling to their deaths?

00:20:15.000 The planes are taking off, these guys are hanging on to the landing gear, and as the landing gear pulls up, they're falling to their death.

00:20:21.000 Trying to save themselves?

00:20:22.000 Yes, trying to leave with the Americans. 1.00

00:20:25.000 It's fucking crazy. 0.99

00:20:28.000 Just the chaos at the airport. 0.99

00:20:30.000 You haven't seen any of this stuff?

00:20:31.000 No, I haven't seen it.

00:20:32.000 I actually have not been paying attention to what's happening.

00:20:34.000 Jamie, show him some of the videos because it's heartbreaking.

00:20:41.000 Yeah, these are people just literally climbing all over these ladders, doing whatever they can, trying to force themselves onto these planes. 0.85

00:20:49.000 But the really fucked one is, look, these guys hanging on the landing gear. 0.96

00:20:54.000 Watch this. 1.00

00:20:55.000 Like falling to his death. 1.00

00:20:58.000 It's fucked. 1.00

00:21:02.000 Yeah, and look at this. 1.00

00:21:03.000 I mean, fucking crazy. 0.99

00:21:05.000 All these guys trying to stop the plane so they can get on board. 0.99

00:21:13.000 I mean this is just a tremendous failure.

00:21:18.000 It's so heartbreaking.

00:21:20.000 Yeah, but what do you do?

00:21:22.000 What could be done differently, right?

00:21:24.000 That's the real question.

00:21:25.000 Could they have designed a better withdrawal plan that scaled over time, where they gave particularly the people that helped the American military over there,

00:21:41.000 that they're very vulnerable right now.

00:21:43.000 They're in a lot of trouble.

00:21:44.000 Could they have protected them better?

00:21:46.000 Could they have done something?

00:21:47.000 Could they have designed a plan?

00:21:49.000 That's what most people who are criticizing this believe.

00:21:52.000 The people that actually understand what's going on over there, they think this idea of pulling out immediately Yeah.

00:21:58.000 But half the world is living under authoritarian regimes.

00:22:02.000 So the question is, how do you help those people?

00:22:05.000 How do you help?

00:22:06.000 You had a nice, sophisticated, deep historical conversation with Andrew Schultz about North Korea.

00:22:12.000 Are you being sarcastic?

00:22:14.000 There's a little bit of sarcasm there.

00:22:16.000 I love him.

00:22:17.000 He's hilarious.

00:22:18.000 He is hilarious, but he was going hard to paint.

00:22:21.000 Yeah, a little bit.

00:22:22.000 But he's...

00:22:23.000 But like, how do you help?

00:22:24.000 Well, the one sort of sophisticated criticism there was, well, what the hell do you do about it?

00:22:24.000 He's having fun.

00:22:33.000 Right, what do you do about North Korea?

00:22:35.000 Well, what...

00:22:39.000 There's a lot of places like that.

00:22:41.000 North Korea is probably the worst or one of the worst. 0.79

00:22:43.000 But there's a lot of places where the leader of the government is abusing its people.

00:22:48.000 What do you do about it?

00:22:49.000 The whole cryptocurrency, Bitcoin people say, maybe you can change the money.

00:22:56.000 You can give people power by, like, one of the ways government controls its people is the monetary system.

00:23:01.000 So you can, like, swap out, try to give people power through the money.

00:23:05.000 That's one way.

00:23:06.000 That's interesting.

00:23:08.000 Obviously, the old-school way is military, or also maybe economic pressures.

00:23:15.000 But then it becomes difficult, because you've taken on that project, and then you get the thing that you get in Afghanistan.

00:23:24.000 And, you know, it's a project that takes 10 years, it takes 20 years, and then ultimately it's not successful.

00:23:29.000 The Afghanistan situation is so crazy because, you know, Biden was on television just a little while ago talking about how there's 300,000 armed Afghanistan soldiers that were trained by the United States and there's only 75,000 Taliban.

00:23:45.000 There's no way that they're going to fall.

00:23:47.000 But they never fought.

00:23:48.000 They just gave up, like, instantly.

00:23:51.000 Yeah.

00:23:52.000 You know, it's like the whole situation is very confusing to someone who doesn't understand it.

00:23:57.000 If you're a guy who fought over there, too, it's got to be insanely frustrating.

00:24:03.000 People spilled blood over there, people lost limbs over there, and then they're seeing how quickly we just pulled out in an abandoned ship.

00:24:10.000 Like, what was that for?

00:24:13.000 Well, we got into that war under false pretenses.

00:24:17.000 We stayed without much transparency about why we're staying. 0.99

00:24:21.000 For 20 fucking years. 0.98

00:24:23.000 Without a clear plan for the future. 0.99

00:24:23.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:24:26.000 And then we pulled out without a clear, transparent plan.

00:24:30.000 But I don't know what lesson to draw from that, except that we should never have gone in in the first place.

00:24:36.000 That's the only sort of solid set of arguments you can have.

00:24:40.000 And why that place?

00:24:42.000 It's the people that argue it's all about oil and all those kinds of things.

00:24:45.000 And minerals.

00:24:46.000 And all sorts of natural resources, right?

00:24:46.000 And minerals.

00:24:48.000 And natural gas.

00:24:50.000 Like Afghanistan is a rich suppository of lithium, I believe, too, right?

00:24:56.000 Yeah, natural.

00:24:57.000 But then what about Iraq?

00:24:59.000 What does that have to do with anything?

00:25:01.000 And so you start questioning the whole operation, the whole process of making decisions about foreign policy and the military conflicts.

00:25:13.000 What lesson do you draw from that when there's places like North Korea, when there's many people in Africa suffering?

00:25:19.000 There's many regimes that are abusing its people there.

00:25:23.000 Then there's people that criticize Russia.

00:25:26.000 For certain things in terms of from an authoritarian regime perspective.

00:25:31.000 And then the big one is China.

00:25:32.000 And then what do you do about that?

00:25:35.000 I mean, I do find the libertarian argument here the most sophisticated and convincing is we should stay out of other people's business until we have a really clear good plan.

00:25:51.000 The majority of Americans, given a transparent communication of what is going on and what we're going to do, the majority of Americans are behind this plan.

00:26:01.000 Otherwise, stay out of it.

00:26:03.000 When you have something like Nazi Germany, where there's obvious atrocities happening, where there's an obvious war on the horizon, then that's different.

00:26:17.000 Well, if that's the case, then why aren't we invading North Korea? 0.94

00:26:21.000 If Wynome Park and all these different people that have escaped from North Korea are telling the truth, there's a Holocaust going on there right now. 0.71

00:26:28.000 I mean, they're literally starving their people.

00:26:30.000 They're putting their people in concentration camps.

00:26:32.000 They're having children born in concentration camps for the crimes of their grandparents.

00:26:37.000 And their children will also be born in these camps, in these prison camps.

00:26:42.000 They're starving their people.

00:26:44.000 They execute them for almost no reason.

00:26:47.000 They do whatever they want to them.

00:26:49.000 They have full and total complete control over them.

00:26:52.000 Well, the dark answer and the reason is because there's no way to do anything about North Korea without also doing something about China.

00:27:02.000 And that's why we turn a blind eye to North Korea. 0.93

00:27:10.000 A war with North Korea or invasion of North Korea is an invasion of China.

00:27:17.000 Also, North Korea has nuclear weapons, right?

00:27:20.000 The nuclear weapon thing really has changed the idea of war.

00:27:25.000 It's kind of amazing that no one's dropped a bomb since 1947. Isn't it?

00:27:31.000 Yeah.

00:27:31.000 It's amazing.

00:27:32.000 It gives me hope for humanity.

00:27:35.000 Like, we're not so crazy that we're going to just blow each other up.

00:27:39.000 Right.

00:27:39.000 Yeah.

00:27:40.000 It is amazing.

00:27:42.000 Right?

00:27:43.000 I mean, it's one of the most amazing things about people.

00:27:46.000 Yeah.

00:27:47.000 That we have the ultimate weapon and we haven't used it in decades.

00:27:52.000 There's a lot of terrorists in this world, and it's amazing to me.

00:27:56.000 They haven't done anything much more destructive than 9-11.

00:28:00.000 Yeah.

00:28:01.000 Like a nuke.

00:28:03.000 Nuke, but even less than that.

00:28:03.000 Yeah.

00:28:06.000 Like orchestrated attacks.

00:28:09.000 You sent me the QAnon documentary.

00:28:11.000 That's an orchestrated attack.

00:28:13.000 Did you watch that?

00:28:14.000 Yeah, I started.

00:28:16.000 I'm only on episode two.

00:28:17.000 I cannot recommend it enough.

00:28:19.000 I want to use it.

00:28:20.000 The one on HBO? Yes.

00:28:21.000 You finally started it?

00:28:21.000 Yes.

00:28:22.000 It is so good.

00:28:22.000 That's good.

00:28:23.000 It's incredible, right?

00:28:24.000 Yeah, it's good.

00:28:25.000 Yeah, I'm only on it.

00:28:27.000 I finished episode two.

00:28:28.000 I'm moving to episode three. 0.97

00:28:30.000 It's so fucked because I'm trying to be kind here. 0.98

00:28:36.000 Misfits need love too and and misfits need a purpose and That is what I got on that documentary at least the first two episodes I mean free speech also, you know the family that runs 8chan in the Philippines Like their commitment to free speech and to let people just do whatever the fuck they want to do like In many ways, 0.99

00:28:59.000 I agree and see their point but the not even but What I'm seeing in the documentary though, these people that are into QAnon, the people that were following the drops,

00:29:16.000 the people that were deeply invested in believing that this was some person who, I don't know, maybe they'd resolve this later on in the series, I don't know, after two.

00:29:27.000 Do they ever resolve it?

00:29:28.000 Who the person is?

00:29:29.000 I have not finished the other myself.

00:29:30.000 Who the person is.

00:29:31.000 Yeah, who actually Q is.

00:29:33.000 I don't think so.

00:29:34.000 As far as you, but from what I understand, the theme continues there.

00:29:39.000 So even in the first two, if we can give a little bit of a spoiler.

00:29:43.000 It's called Into the Storm.

00:29:44.000 Into the Storm.

00:29:45.000 Yeah, it's on HBO Max.

00:29:47.000 It's great.

00:29:48.000 It's really well done.

00:29:49.000 It's Q Into the Storm or something like that.

00:29:50.000 Yeah, and one of those guys was on Duncan's podcast.

00:29:56.000 Yeah.

00:29:57.000 The gentleman who's disabled, what is his name?

00:30:01.000 Fred Brennan.

00:30:03.000 Yeah, Fred Brennan.

00:30:04.000 Yeah, he was on Duncan's podcast.

00:30:06.000 Duncan says he's great.

00:30:08.000 And he's remarkably well, what's the word? 0.98

00:30:15.000 He handles himself really well for a guy who got dealt such a shit hand of cards, you know, biologically. 0.98

00:30:22.000 There he is. 0.99

00:30:23.000 Frederick Brennan.

00:30:25.000 I was very impressed with him.

00:30:27.000 There it is, Duncan Trussell, episode 433. Yeah.

00:30:31.000 Wow.

00:30:33.000 Yeah, he was interesting because he said, I think it was in the first episode, he says something like, you know, he is disabled and, you know, like people were generally in public nice to him.

00:30:46.000 But then when he went in anonymous forums, people were basically just cruel to him.

00:30:53.000 Yeah, ruthless.

00:30:53.000 Ruthless.

00:30:54.000 And he was kind of excited by that because...

00:30:58.000 The way he put it, he was able to peek into what people really thought.

00:31:03.000 Yeah.

00:31:04.000 I'm not sure that's true.

00:31:06.000 I don't think that's true either.

00:31:07.000 Because I think people say things online that they don't really believe.

00:31:11.000 They say it for shock value.

00:31:13.000 And they say it because there's no consequence. 0.99

00:31:16.000 So they just say fucked up things. 0.97

00:31:18.000 And they say it also to try to impress each other with how dark you can get. 0.98

00:31:25.000 Yeah.

00:31:26.000 It becomes a fun game of toxicity.

00:31:28.000 It's fun to just go up, up.

00:31:32.000 The cool thing about that documentary to me, I always had a hunch, but that documentary makes it clear to me that one person can be Q. So the documentary from the very beginning, I don't think they'll resolve it. 0.96

00:31:48.000 But it's the guy that's currently running it.

00:31:52.000 Is it Code Monkey?

00:31:54.000 Ron Watkins.

00:31:55.000 That's cute.

00:31:56.000 I've always thought...

00:31:57.000 That's what they think?

00:31:58.000 That's what the documentary is implying from the very beginning.

00:32:01.000 I mean, the way they're painting in the first two episodes.

00:32:03.000 I didn't think that.

00:32:04.000 You thought that?

00:32:05.000 Yeah.

00:32:08.000 So he looks like he's lying nonstop.

00:32:10.000 Really?

00:32:11.000 First of all.

00:32:12.000 I don't think he looks like he's lying.

00:32:13.000 I think he looks like he's very socially awkward and he's just talking.

00:32:17.000 I didn't think he looked like he was lying at all.

00:32:18.000 It's interesting.

00:32:19.000 We have a different perspective on this.

00:32:20.000 This is analysis analyzing Shakespeare in high school.

00:32:24.000 Did you think, Jamie, did you think he was lying?

00:32:26.000 He's the son of the guy, right?

00:32:27.000 Yeah.

00:32:28.000 The son of the guy who runs 8chan.

00:32:29.000 Both of them look like they're lying.

00:32:30.000 They seem like they're up to something.

00:32:32.000 The old guy who runs 8chan, his dad is a trip.

00:32:36.000 He's a character.

00:32:37.000 I'm not interested in politics.

00:32:40.000 Off the first two episodes, though, I wouldn't say that I thought that, but he's a suspect, maybe, I guess, but not top of the top three.

00:32:48.000 Yeah, I didn't think he was a suspect at all.

00:32:50.000 First time I saw him, I was like, that guy, that's Q. Really? 0.99

00:32:53.000 Yeah, it's obvious.

00:32:55.000 So to me, technically speaking, because not the people on the forums, but him, I know that person in the following sense.

00:33:03.000 Like, I know programmers.

00:33:04.000 These are hackers, these are programmers.

00:33:06.000 I know these people.

00:33:07.000 I knew from the very beginning that Q... If it's controlled by a government agency, like in Russia or something like that, it's because they acquired a single person who was good at this.

00:33:21.000 It's pretty easy for a single person to control anonymous forums in this way.

00:33:26.000 With some combination of bots and just individuals.

00:33:29.000 It's weaving narratives.

00:33:31.000 Human beings love narratives. 0.99

00:33:33.000 And if you come up with crazy shit and you start, there's a mystery, like a Hitchcock-style mystery. 0.99

00:33:38.000 You're basically telling stories. 0.99

00:33:40.000 It's how Scientology got started.

00:33:42.000 You're telling beautiful stories, like some mystery, some painting a picture of evil that you get to fight, painting a picture of a better world if you defeat the evil.

00:33:53.000 All those things you can do pretty effectively through technology by a single person.

00:33:59.000 Well, I thought...

00:33:59.000 I thought it was clearly manipulative from the start because if you look at the way Q is writing, like everything is a mystery and a puzzle.

00:34:07.000 If you're trying to release information and you're doing so anonymously, why wouldn't you be clear and succinct?

00:34:14.000 Because they're playing games with misfits. 1.00

00:34:14.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:34:16.000 That's what they're doing.

00:34:17.000 You know what I don't like about, what's his name, Watkins?

00:34:20.000 Yeah, The Sun, Ron Watkins, yeah.

00:34:22.000 I don't like his glasses.

00:34:24.000 Why does he get taped up glasses?

00:34:26.000 It's too on the nose. 1.00

00:34:28.000 It's like, I bet those fucking glasses are clear. 1.00

00:34:30.000 I bet he doesn't even need them. 1.00

00:34:32.000 Yeah, we notice different things.

00:34:33.000 I noticed ego. 1.00

00:34:34.000 He tapes his fucking glasses, the little thing in the corner. 0.99

00:34:37.000 That could have been done for the movie, too, because I'm looking at other pictures of him and there are no pictures of taped up glasses, but I had to find that one. 0.99

00:34:43.000 Well, maybe he broke his glasses right before, but I'm suspicious.

00:34:47.000 I'm suspicious of the taped up glasses.

00:34:49.000 What's with the cowboy hat?

00:34:51.000 Is there a more cliche, Like, portrayal of a nerd than the tape on the glasses?

00:34:51.000 I don't know.

00:35:00.000 I mean, it's literally from Revenge of the Nerds, right?

00:35:03.000 In the movie Revenge of the Nerds, didn't he have his glasses taped?

00:35:06.000 I think he did.

00:35:07.000 I'm guessing.

00:35:08.000 Yeah, but it's cliche for a reason.

00:35:10.000 First of all, tape is functional.

00:35:13.000 And nerds think in a very...

00:35:14.000 Computer programmers think in a very functional way.

00:35:17.000 What's your problem with tape?

00:35:18.000 It's just the fact that he's got taped up glasses while he's doing an HBO documentary.

00:35:23.000 There's no tape, I don't think.

00:35:24.000 No?

00:35:25.000 I think it's just a stereotype deal.

00:35:27.000 I feel like Revenge of the Nerds had taped up glasses.

00:35:31.000 No?

00:35:32.000 I don't know.

00:35:33.000 But you're right.

00:35:34.000 One of those movies did.

00:35:35.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:35:35.000 But you know what I mean?

00:35:36.000 The tape in the corner of the glasses is so cliche.

00:35:40.000 But yes, do people tape their glasses when their glasses break?

00:35:44.000 It's a good thing to do.

00:35:44.000 Yes, they do.

00:35:45.000 It is functional. 0.99

00:35:47.000 But when I saw him with the taped up glasses, I'm like, get the fuck out of here. 0.98

00:35:50.000 You couldn't get your glasses fixed? 0.98

00:35:52.000 You really just going to tape them up?

00:35:53.000 So who do you think is Q from just your...

00:35:56.000 Like, when you thought about QAnon, who did you...

00:35:58.000 Before the documentary, who did you think it was?

00:36:00.000 An organization?

00:36:01.000 No, I thought it was probably some wackadoo who works with Trump who is enjoying the fact that he has access and he's playing games with people.

00:36:11.000 That's what I felt like.

00:36:12.000 He's playing games and manipulating people.

00:36:13.000 It's just the way...

00:36:15.000 They're communicating.

00:36:16.000 The way they're communicating with like puzzles and then all these QAnon dorks, all these people that are like these misfits that they follow in this documentary that are really obsessed with it.

00:36:27.000 They have to like try to piece the puzzle together. 0.98

00:36:31.000 Tell them what the fuck is going on. 0.99

00:36:32.000 Why is this a puzzle? 0.99

00:36:34.000 Why is this a puzzle that's open to interpretation? 0.99

00:36:37.000 That's dumb. 0.99

00:36:38.000 That's a dumb way to leak information. 0.99

00:36:40.000 Did Edward Snowden release information in puzzles? 0.71

00:36:44.000 Did Julian Assange release information in puzzles? 0.99

00:36:47.000 This is a stupid way to release information. 0.99

00:36:47.000 No. 0.99

00:36:49.000 You don't have to reveal your identity, but reveal the information very clearly. 0.99

00:36:53.000 The way he speaks in these broken sentences, and the fact that it's coded, this is someone who's fucking with people. 0.82

00:37:02.000 But the thing is, what I got out of this documentary so far, is that, look, if you get a hundred people in the room, You're gonna have a misfit. 0.81

00:37:14.000 One person in that room is gonna be an outcast, they're not gonna fit in, and they're gonna be searching for meaning and longing, and this is just, they don't have like a very clear place where they fit into the puzzle.

00:37:30.000 So if you get a hundred people and one of them is like that, well you have 330 million people in this country. 0.98

00:37:38.000 So you have fucking millions and millions of misfits. 1.00

00:37:42.000 See, I think the number, I mean, you're just giving an example. 0.99

00:37:46.000 I think the number of people who are searching and are a bit lost and are deeply lonely is much closer to 100% than to 1%.

00:37:54.000 100% deeply lonely?

00:37:57.000 Yeah, there's a depth of loneliness in all of us and we're searching for meaning.

00:38:00.000 I really honestly think that if you look at the spread of the people in the world, I'm not saying 100%, but I'm saying there's a population of 60-70% that, I mean, they're not radicalized, but they're searching.

00:38:14.000 And we're searching for stories to unite over.

00:38:18.000 This is the scary thing.

00:38:19.000 It's both exciting and scary.

00:38:21.000 It's exciting because you can use technology for the people to rise up against power centers.

00:38:28.000 They're abusing them.

00:38:29.000 That's what QAnon is doing.

00:38:31.000 They're doing it with false narratives and they're rising up against, I would say, the wrong kind of power centers.

00:38:37.000 But the fact that people can do that, I think, starting from a single person is exciting to me and is promising to me because I ultimately believe in the positive aspects of human nature.

00:38:50.000 But I also do believe people are searching and we're hungry.

00:38:54.000 So what we're calling misfits, you're a misfit. 0.96

00:38:58.000 You're just like, you're a busy misfit that runs on a treadmill.

00:39:03.000 So you don't have time to check forums.

00:39:05.000 Well, I'm not interested in it either.

00:39:07.000 It's not just I don't have time.

00:39:08.000 I see what they're doing, this longing for community.

00:39:13.000 And I get my community in different ways.

00:39:16.000 But if I didn't have stand-up comedy, if I didn't have jiu-jitsu, if I didn't have podcasting, I would try to find community in some way.

00:39:25.000 And I think when I say misfits, a lot of these folks... 1.00

00:39:30.000 They're just social outcasts, right, in a lot of ways.

00:39:33.000 And it's not just that they're misfits.

00:39:35.000 They're kind of disconnected to, you know, like the lady who's missing her front tooth and the husband telling the kid, build that wall, build that wall.

00:39:46.000 These are misfits, right?

00:39:48.000 These are goofy people that they don't have, like, I don't think they have many conversations with objective, intelligent people that are well-informed. 1.00

00:39:58.000 So when they're having these conversations, I think they lack the experience of critical thinking skills, and so they'll believe all kinds of stupid shit. 1.00

00:40:07.000 You know, like the guy who got super excited that he thinks that Trump was pointing at him. 1.00

00:40:11.000 He's like, Trump pointed at me!

00:40:13.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:13.000 With a little...

00:40:14.000 Yeah.

00:40:15.000 Because he's got the Q shirt on, and Trump always has 17, and, you know, what does he say?

00:40:22.000 Just Q weight.

00:40:23.000 Yeah, just Q weight, yeah. 0.99

00:40:25.000 That could have been because he's on Adderall and his fucking mouth was getting sloppy. 0.99

00:40:31.000 I don't know. 1.00

00:40:33.000 I mean, he fucked up a lot of words, but... 0.87

00:40:36.000 The 17 is odd. 0.94

00:40:38.000 That is like the number 17 constantly.

00:40:40.000 And another thing, like that whole queue clearance thing, another film that I watched recently was Collapse with Michael Rupert.

00:40:52.000 Do you know who Michael Rupert is?

00:40:54.000 No.

00:40:55.000 Michael Rupert was a friend of mine.

00:40:57.000 He killed himself a few years back.

00:41:00.000 And he's been on the podcast a couple times.

00:41:02.000 The last time I saw him, he gave me a large jar of mushrooms.

00:41:05.000 He's a very interesting guy.

00:41:06.000 And he worked for the Los Angeles Police Department in the narcotics division.

00:41:12.000 And he exposed the CIA selling drugs in South Central Los Angeles.

00:41:18.000 And he did it on, I think it was on C-SPAN. And he did it at like a city council meeting or some big public meeting.

00:41:29.000 It's a wild speech.

00:41:30.000 Have you ever seen it, Jamie?

00:41:31.000 Yeah, we played it.

00:41:31.000 Yeah, we played it, yeah, yeah.

00:41:34.000 I can send it to you if you want.

00:41:36.000 I have it saved in my phone.

00:41:37.000 But in the film, he says, and this was like, at the same time I'm watching this documentary, I was thinking about him.

00:41:46.000 You know, just randomly thinking about him.

00:41:48.000 And this film collapsed.

00:41:50.000 And it was all about peak oil and the collapse of civilization.

00:41:53.000 And it was a few years back. 0.97

00:41:55.000 I want to say the film was like probably 2008 or some shit. 0.92

00:41:58.000 2009. Some of his predictions were accurate and some of his predictions were not. 0.87

00:42:06.000 But the peak oil thing is definitely not correct because they've subsequently found a lot of oil in other places.

00:42:12.000 But in the film, he's talking about how he has Q-level clearance.

00:42:18.000 Like, it is a thing.

00:42:19.000 Like, Q-level clearance is a thing.

00:42:22.000 And he had it from the time he was young because his father was involved in some intelligence business.

00:42:32.000 But this is him.

00:42:34.000 And Watchtower.

00:42:36.000 I have Watchtower documents heavily redacted by the agency.

00:42:39.000 I was personally exposed to CIA operations and recruited by CIA personnel who attempted to recruit me in the late 70s to become involved in protecting agency drug operations in this country.

00:42:51.000 I have been trying to get this out for 18 years and I have the evidence.

00:42:54.000 My question for you is very specific, sir.

00:42:57.000 If in the course of the IG's investigations, and Fred Hitz's work, you come across evidence of severely criminal activity, and it's classified, will you use that classification to hide the criminal activity, or will you tell the American people the truth?

00:43:17.000 I think we missed the beginning of it where he said that he personally witnessed the CIA selling drugs.

00:43:23.000 This is 1996 allegations of CIA involvement in drug trafficking.

00:43:30.000 It all turned out to be 100% true.

00:43:32.000 I mean, this is how Freeway Ricky Ross, the original real Rick Ross, made millions and millions and millions of dollars.

00:43:39.000 He thought he was just an awesome drug dealer.

00:43:42.000 Well, he was an awesome drug dealer that was working with the CIA, unbeknownst to him.

00:43:45.000 Like, they were allowing him to sell drugs so they could profit off of it, so they could funnel the money into the war with the Contras and the Sandinistas in Nicaragua.

00:43:54.000 And this was when Clinton was president?

00:43:57.000 Yes.

00:43:57.000 No, it was when Reagan was president that it was all going down, but this was when Clinton was president, that he was on television talking about it.

00:44:04.000 By the way, there's not often, I'm a big fan of JRE, there's not often when I do a podcast interview, I was talking to Roger Reeves, and I'm thinking, I wish I wasn't doing this interview, and I wish I was listening to this on your show.

00:44:18.000 Roger Reyes, the drug trafficker.

00:44:21.000 That guy's incredible.

00:44:22.000 You need to talk to him or somebody like him.

00:44:25.000 Oh, definitely talk to him.

00:44:28.000 First of all, Jorge Ochoa, who with Pablo Escobar together created the Medellin cartel, this is crazy to me.

00:44:39.000 He's out of prison.

00:44:40.000 He's living in Medellin.

00:44:43.000 I don't know how these guys...

00:44:44.000 Jorge Ochoa is?

00:44:45.000 He's been out for...

00:44:45.000 Yeah.

00:44:46.000 Roger Reeves is as well, right?

00:44:47.000 He's out of prison too.

00:44:48.000 Yeah, Roger Reeves just got out.

00:44:49.000 Roger Reeves got arrested in, I think, Australia for transporting one or two tons of cocaine.

00:44:59.000 Whoops.

00:45:02.000 Personal use!

00:45:03.000 Yeah.

00:45:05.000 Exactly.

00:45:06.000 But he has so many...

00:45:07.000 It's fascinating what it takes, especially back in the day.

00:45:11.000 It's like Barry Seale.

00:45:13.000 So Barry Seale worked for Roger Rees, and then Barry Seale became his own big transporter.

00:45:19.000 And Roger was on your podcast.

00:45:21.000 Yeah, Roger was.

00:45:22.000 I reached out to you about that.

00:45:24.000 It was a really, really, really interesting episode.

00:45:26.000 Fascinating.

00:45:27.000 Well, it also touches my heart because it's like, go to see about a girl.

00:45:34.000 He's been with his wife through that whole thing.

00:45:37.000 She was with him through all the crazy times, and when he was in prison for many, many years, she stayed with him, and now they're back together, and there's I got to hang out with them, and they're in love.

00:45:47.000 It's crazy.

00:45:48.000 Just to look at a couple through all of that, through all the crazy life they've been through together.

00:45:57.000 And is he allowed to travel?

00:45:59.000 Where did you meet him?

00:46:00.000 He came down to Austin.

00:46:02.000 Really?

00:46:03.000 Where does he live?

00:46:03.000 Yeah.

00:46:04.000 In San Diego, yeah, or something like that, like California.

00:46:08.000 I forgot.

00:46:09.000 So he can travel freely?

00:46:10.000 Yeah.

00:46:12.000 I don't know all of this.

00:46:14.000 What I know is he still doesn't seem to give a damn.

00:46:19.000 He's so full of life and joy, and he always was.

00:46:22.000 So he's never witnessed or participated in any violence.

00:46:25.000 He never witnessed it?

00:46:27.000 No.

00:46:28.000 Really?

00:46:28.000 So the only times he was shooting...

00:46:30.000 So he was treated like royalty.

00:46:33.000 So he was protected.

00:46:35.000 He was never allowed to see anything bad because the violence was between the rival kind of cartels.

00:46:45.000 He was protected.

00:46:47.000 He was treated like royalty.

00:46:48.000 There was no pressure.

00:46:49.000 He made sure that it's frictionless and comfortable for him to do the transportation.

00:46:55.000 He was just flying the coke in.

00:46:58.000 Coke and weed in large amounts, back and forth.

00:47:02.000 The violence he's had is when he's being chased quite a bit by the police.

00:47:08.000 So, like, he doesn't shoot back, but he's trying not to...

00:47:14.000 Die from being shot.

00:47:19.000 Barry has similar stories.

00:47:21.000 You have to fly really low. 1.00

00:47:23.000 You have to do all this kind of crazy shit. 1.00

00:47:25.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:47:25.000 To avoid radar? 1.00

00:47:26.000 You have to know what you're doing.

00:47:29.000 You have to take big risks.

00:47:30.000 There's many times where he had to crash and then run through the jungle and that kind of stuff.

00:47:35.000 The usual thing you would expect for many, many years.

00:47:39.000 Transporting drugs.

00:47:40.000 And he always has this goofy, happy, like, smile on his face.

00:47:43.000 Just joyful.

00:47:45.000 I escaped from prison five times.

00:47:49.000 But, you know, since actually doing that interview, a bunch of people have written me, like, they weren't in jail with him, in prison with him.

00:47:57.000 Like, everybody speaks really highly of him.

00:47:59.000 It's kind of interesting.

00:48:00.000 Except people who are like, he aided in the transport.

00:48:05.000 He aided in the suffering of many people by giving them drugs.

00:48:09.000 And there's a lot of sort of...

00:48:11.000 Yeah, that's...

00:48:12.000 I get...

00:48:13.000 That one's a slippery one because...

00:48:17.000 I feel like, my opinion, particularly about cocaine, I think cocaine should be legal.

00:48:23.000 Yeah.

00:48:24.000 100%.

00:48:24.000 I think marijuana should be legal.

00:48:27.000 It's kind of legal in a lot of places.

00:48:28.000 Alcohol is legal everywhere.

00:48:30.000 Cocaine is arguably better for you than those, well, not marijuana, but better for you than alcohol.

00:48:36.000 And the problem with cocaine is the fact that it's illegal.

00:48:39.000 So you're getting cocaine that's been stepped on, cocaine that has things like fentanyl in it that's causing people to overdose.

00:48:45.000 Yeah.

00:48:46.000 If they got a hold of pure cocaine and made supposedly educated decisions, you could educate people.

00:48:54.000 Like, we've educated people somewhat about alcohol, right?

00:48:57.000 We know not to drink and drive.

00:48:59.000 We know alcohol can cause liver damage and it could fuck you up and, you know, drink moderately.

00:49:04.000 These narratives are all constantly distributed, right?

00:49:10.000 We should have done the same thing with cocaine.

00:49:12.000 Like, I'm not interested in cocaine, but...

00:49:17.000 I think cocaine should be legal.

00:49:18.000 I really do. 0.98

00:49:19.000 I mean, so many fucking people do it, and they're getting it from these weird sources where you really have no idea what's actually in it. 0.99

00:49:27.000 You're not testing it. 0.99

00:49:28.000 You know, and it's infuriating for adults, for grown adults.

00:49:33.000 They should be able to make informed decisions. 0.97

00:49:34.000 And if they just had pure cocaine, which they would be able to get if it was legal, instead of the stepped-on bullshit that people are getting, it'd probably be a lot better for you. 0.80

00:49:42.000 When you talk to Dr. Karl Hart, have you ever had him on your show? 0.69

00:49:45.000 You should have him on your show.

00:49:46.000 You know who he is?

00:49:47.000 The guy from Columbia?

00:49:48.000 He's brilliant.

00:49:49.000 And his perspective is incredible.

00:49:52.000 It's very refreshing.

00:49:53.000 Because here you got a guy who's a professor at Columbia who talks openly about responsible drug use.

00:50:00.000 That he uses drugs and he enjoys them.

00:50:02.000 And he's a brilliant man.

00:50:04.000 And it's not wasted his life at all.

00:50:07.000 It's not ruined him at all.

00:50:08.000 And he was a clinical researcher, and before he was a researcher, he was of the opinion that drugs are bad.

00:50:14.000 And he bought into all the propaganda about drugs, and he's like, there's no way to use them right.

00:50:19.000 They're going to get addicted. 0.99

00:50:20.000 It's going to fuck you up. 0.98

00:50:21.000 But along the way, doing actual research, he came to understand what they actually do to you and how they could be used responsibly. 0.98

00:50:30.000 And he talks about heroin, too, right?

00:50:32.000 Yeah, he uses heroin.

00:50:33.000 Sniffs heroin.

00:50:34.000 So that might not be right for everyone, but we should at least do really good science on who is it right for, what are the protocols, how to do it in a healthy way, all that kind of stuff.

00:50:43.000 Do you know how many people are on OxyContin right now?

00:50:45.000 How many people are on Oxycodone and how many people have back pains and their doctors prescribe some opiates and they take them on a regular basis?

00:50:52.000 I would like to know.

00:50:54.000 Let's find out.

00:50:55.000 How many people in the United States regularly take prescribed opiates?

00:51:00.000 Because there's very little difference between opiates prescribed in pill form and heroin. 0.98

00:51:07.000 The difference is, again, with heroin, you're getting it from some fucking crazy sources and you don't know what's in it.

00:51:13.000 If you get oxycodone and oxycontin and the various pills that you get opiates in, you're getting it, at least you're getting a pharmaceutical grade version of it. 0.96

00:51:23.000 And then Jordan Peterson went through hell because of...

00:51:26.000 Benzodiazepines.

00:51:27.000 Yeah.

00:51:27.000 Yeah, that's even differently because that's an anti-anxiety medication.

00:51:31.000 Yeah.

00:51:31.000 But that's also being overprescribed.

00:51:32.000 I mean, not overprescribed, but prescribed judiciously.

00:51:36.000 Let's see here. 1.00

00:51:38.000 Holy shit! 1.00

00:51:40.000 Holy shit! 1.00

00:51:41.000 Let's go to 2016. 214,881,622 prescriptions. 0.99

00:51:53.000 Wait, what?

00:51:55.000 Just look at that number.

00:51:57.000 Okay, let's just go to 2019 because it drops quite a bit.

00:52:00.000 But still, because they tightened down the regulations and there's a lot of documentaries about the abuse of it, but In 2019, it's quite a bit less, but it's still 153,260,450 prescriptions.

00:52:16.000 50% of the population.

00:52:17.000 For opioids.

00:52:18.000 What's the map look like?

00:52:20.000 Rate maps?

00:52:20.000 Is there a map of the United States that's kind of connected to this?

00:52:23.000 Listen to this.

00:52:24.000 Opioid dispensing rate per 100 persons.

00:52:27.000 46.7.

00:52:28.000 But in 2016, it's 66.5.

00:52:33.000 So for every 100 persons in 2016, 66 of them were taking opioids. 0.99

00:52:42.000 That's fucking wild. 0.98

00:52:44.000 And that is a financial boom! 0.99

00:52:48.000 Can you imagine the amount of money they're making off of this?

00:52:52.000 And the amount of suffering that's behind those numbers.

00:52:54.000 Yeah.

00:52:56.000 It's crazy.

00:52:58.000 Three waves of the rise of opioid overdose deaths. 0.99

00:53:04.000 Heroin's way down there compared to synthetic opioids and the other shit. 0.97

00:53:11.000 Yeah, fentanyl's the big one, right? 0.99

00:53:12.000 That's just killing people left and right.

00:53:14.000 Fentanyl is, what is it, something like a hundred times stronger than heroin?

00:53:20.000 Something bananas like that.

00:53:24.000 So...

00:53:24.000 Yeah, I mean, that's the argument Roger Reeves uses.

00:53:27.000 It's like, this had never been...

00:53:29.000 The war on drugs, this should never have been illegal.

00:53:32.000 And then, obviously, he ties it into, like, the CIA and the Clintons with me in Arkansas, with Barry Seale.

00:53:32.000 Yeah.

00:53:39.000 There's a lot of interesting stories that...

00:53:42.000 I mean, to me, I'm not actually that...

00:53:44.000 Like, with Oliver North, I'm not familiar with all of that world, especially just coming from the Soviet Union.

00:53:50.000 I wasn't...

00:53:50.000 I didn't have this history of...

00:53:53.000 There's a lot of shady shit that happened in the past few decades that I've not kind of tuned my mind to. 0.80

00:54:00.000 Well, they were aware that billions and billions of dollars were being made. 0.95

00:54:05.000 And so rogue elements of government agencies participated in the trafficking of this and they funneled that money into black operations, you know, like they did with the Sandinistas and the Contras versus the Contras.

00:54:18.000 But they've been doing that forever.

00:54:20.000 They've been doing that forever.

00:54:23.000 And if you thought about drug use and drug illegality, you scaled it down.

00:54:28.000 I always like to scale things down to a preposterous number.

00:54:31.000 So if there was just the three of us on the world, why would we make anything illegal?

00:54:36.000 It was just the three of us.

00:54:37.000 There's three guys in this room, you, me, and Jamie.

00:54:40.000 We're all grown adults.

00:54:43.000 Imagine if Jamie decided that he's the police officer, and if he catches you with heroin, he's going to lock you in a cage.

00:54:49.000 It would be preposterous.

00:54:50.000 We'd have to pull Jamie aside.

00:54:52.000 We'd have to go, Jamie, you can't lock Lex up in jail because he wants to use heroin.

00:54:56.000 This is crazy.

00:54:56.000 What if I get violent when I drink?

00:54:59.000 And then you would all agree that we don't let Lex drink because he gets violent.

00:55:04.000 Would you? 0.99

00:55:05.000 Wouldn't you just say, let's stay the fuck away from Lex when he's drinking? 0.98

00:55:08.000 I don't know. 0.99

00:55:09.000 Listen, it depends.

00:55:10.000 You should be charged with...

00:55:13.000 Listen, we already have laws...

00:55:15.000 By the way, I'm a friendly drunk.

00:55:17.000 I'm not saying...

00:55:17.000 He is a friendly drunk.

00:55:18.000 This is very...

00:55:19.000 We already have laws for crimes. 0.57

00:55:22.000 Do we really need laws for substances that could potentially cause you to commit crimes?

00:55:29.000 Because if you get drunk and you are friendly drunk like you are in real life and you just laugh and we have a good time, then that's fine. 0.96

00:55:35.000 But if you get drunk and you go out there and you want to fight the security guards and you want to go across the street to 7-Eleven and kick somebody's ass, the problem is the actions. 0.96

00:55:44.000 The problem is not the substance itself. 0.98

00:55:46.000 The problem is what are you doing when you're on these substances?

00:55:49.000 Well, we already have laws to stop you from doing those things.

00:55:51.000 Are we saying that if you drink alcohol that it's impossible for you to control your violent urges?

00:55:57.000 Well, you have a problem with violent urges.

00:55:59.000 It has nothing really to do with alcohol.

00:56:02.000 Yeah.

00:56:02.000 This gets into that Michael Malice anarchy question.

00:56:07.000 Should you even have an army or police force to protect?

00:56:12.000 Michael goes so deep with this.

00:56:13.000 He says everything should be legal.

00:56:17.000 There should not be rules at all.

00:56:18.000 Does he have a gun?

00:56:20.000 He's in New York.

00:56:21.000 He doesn't have a gun.

00:56:22.000 He lives here now.

00:56:24.000 He doesn't officially live here.

00:56:27.000 Yeah, I think he moves here September 1st.

00:56:28.000 Not only does he live here, but he's got to move next door to me.

00:56:32.000 Yay! 0.99

00:56:34.000 I like it.

00:56:34.000 Good.

00:56:36.000 You two together are hilarious, by the way.

00:56:39.000 I don't even know. 1.00

00:56:40.000 He's a little shit star, that guy. 1.00

00:56:42.000 Yeah, he is, and he's brilliant at it. 0.99

00:56:44.000 He's also just like one of the most well-read, one of the most brilliant people I've ever talked to, which is hilarious because he has all of these, sometimes literally, masks that he can put on and take off.

00:56:56.000 It's like the most masterful troll I've ever encountered in my life.

00:57:00.000 He spent a lot of time on the internet. 1.00

00:57:01.000 He knows how to stir some shit. 0.99

00:57:04.000 He's usually classy about it. 1.00

00:57:06.000 Yes, he's great.

00:57:07.000 I love him.

00:57:08.000 I think he's amazing.

00:57:10.000 And also, I don't know anybody like him.

00:57:14.000 Let's celebrate the weirdos.

00:57:16.000 It's like Tim Dillon.

00:57:18.000 There's a few people that are just like...

00:57:20.000 They must be protected.

00:57:22.000 They must be protected.

00:57:23.000 They're uniquely...

00:57:24.000 It makes you happy to be part of this civilization because that thing exists.

00:57:29.000 Yeah, they're my favorite.

00:57:30.000 I love weirdos.

00:57:32.000 I really do.

00:57:33.000 I celebrate them and I try to boost their signal as much as possible.

00:57:37.000 I think we need them. 0.93

00:57:39.000 We need weirdos. 0.74

00:57:40.000 As long as they're nice.

00:57:43.000 I always wonder, like Elon Musk, I wonder in each industry there's like a rare moment when there's like this weird shooting star, this glimmering weird thing that happens.

00:57:58.000 I've been obsessed watching soccer lately, football.

00:58:02.000 Really?

00:58:03.000 Do you know Khabib is going to play football?

00:58:03.000 For real.

00:58:05.000 He's going to play soccer now?

00:58:08.000 What do you mean, professionally?

00:58:09.000 Yes.

00:58:10.000 Yeah, he just signed to a soccer team.

00:58:10.000 What?

00:58:14.000 What?

00:58:14.000 Yeah, that's what he wants to do.

00:58:16.000 Yeah, one of his dreams.

00:58:16.000 Really?

00:58:18.000 Yeah.

00:58:18.000 Interesting.

00:58:18.000 It's like Michael Jordan playing baseball.

00:58:21.000 I mean, I don't know how good he is.

00:58:23.000 He might be really good.

00:58:25.000 But people are going to tune in to watch.

00:58:26.000 Yeah, they'll tune in to watch.

00:58:28.000 But I mean, he's done fighting.

00:58:29.000 He's like, I'm done.

00:58:30.000 I accomplished everything I wanted to accomplish.

00:58:32.000 I told my mother I'd quit.

00:58:33.000 He's made millions and millions of dollars, and he's also been given millions and millions of dollars by all sorts of very, very rich Muslim people who love him, and they gifted him money.

00:58:46.000 And also, he lives very simply.

00:58:47.000 Very simply.

00:58:48.000 He drives a Toyota truck.

00:58:50.000 I've been talking to a lot of Russians lately, and people in Russia love him.

00:58:56.000 I would love to talk to that guy in Russian only.

00:58:56.000 Yeah.

00:59:00.000 Oh, I bet he would do it.

00:59:01.000 You could have a subtitled version on YouTube.

00:59:04.000 Because I think there's a certain way he speaks in English and there's a certain way he speaks in Russian.

00:59:09.000 Right, yeah.

00:59:09.000 It's very different because he's still not comfortable with English.

00:59:13.000 So he speaks like semi-location.

00:59:17.000 Send location.

00:59:18.000 Send location.

00:59:20.000 Which is nice for intimidation, but it's a different thing.

00:59:24.000 It's a different thing.

00:59:25.000 In Russian, you can be more poetic.

00:59:27.000 You can be deeper.

00:59:28.000 You can be more emotional.

00:59:29.000 Like, he doesn't actually know how to be real and emotional in English yet.

00:59:34.000 So it takes...

00:59:35.000 Because I have the same kind of leap you have to take to be able to be open to the full human experience in another language.

00:59:42.000 It's weird how you need to know the language well in order to experience the world in that language.

00:59:47.000 If you had to make a judgment between the two languages, which language do you think allows you to express yourself more eloquently?

00:59:55.000 So, 100%, Russian is... 1.00

01:00:01.000 Now, I'm biased a little bit, but I think Russian is a language that is more effective at communicating, feeling, Emotion, suffering. 0.97

01:00:15.000 The way the language has evolved, because it went through the 20th century, through the wars, through the atrocities, through all of that, I think there's something to that, where the language carries the burden of the people, the suffering of the people with it.

01:00:30.000 The American experiment has a different trajectory that results in a different language, and I would say American language is much more simplistic. 0.96

01:00:40.000 So you can't fuck with the words as much.

01:00:46.000 The way the Russian language works, you can adjust the words to completely change the meaning. 0.99

01:00:52.000 Plus, swearing is an art form in Russia.

01:00:56.000 Russians swear a lot more.

01:00:59.000 Obviously not Khabib, but generally speaking, Russians swear a lot more than Americans.

01:01:04.000 Really?

01:01:05.000 And swearing is a much richer part of the language.

01:01:08.000 So are Russians like American comedians? 1.00

01:01:10.000 Basically.

01:01:11.000 Really?

01:01:12.000 So what you find when people suffer, when you go through the war, when you go through poverty, more people become comedians because humor is a way to escape pain.

01:01:25.000 We're not talking about professional comedians.

01:01:27.000 We're talking about...

01:01:28.000 Right. 1.00

01:01:28.000 You get some vodka, you get a guitar, and you're just shooting the shit. 1.00

01:01:32.000 There's much more of that energy because there's nothing else to do. 0.98

01:01:36.000 And then the laughter is one of the only ways to deal with the absurdity of the government taking everything away from you, all those kinds of things.

01:01:44.000 And so there's a natural humor to the language, there's a natural ability to like between the lines to communicate pain.

01:01:53.000 That's why you have all the poets, there's Dostoevsky, even shooting way farther back Tolstoy.

01:02:01.000 So there's a history of literature being used to communicate that pain.

01:02:05.000 I think Russian language is better at doing that.

01:02:10.000 But there's also kind of a, culturally speaking, there's an inclination to romanticize things, like to be kind of philosophical.

01:02:19.000 I think that has to do with the early education system in Russia, under the Soviet Union especially, was such that everybody was forced to read really heavy literature early on, like way early on, and also do some Like math.

01:02:37.000 The level of education in Russia in the first five years, the first eight years, leading up to ten, is just an order of magnitude more intense than it is in America.

01:02:51.000 Where America catches up is the college.

01:02:54.000 America dominates the world in university education.

01:02:57.000 But in terms of high school, middle school, elementary school, American education is very soft.

01:03:03.000 It doesn't really challenge people.

01:03:05.000 It doesn't really push them.

01:03:07.000 Russian education system.

01:03:08.000 You read all that stuff.

01:03:10.000 You read Tolstoy.

01:03:11.000 You read Dostoevsky.

01:03:12.000 Not only that, you have to memorize hundreds of poems.

01:03:17.000 There's a strictness to it where you have to learn, at least when I was coming up, handwriting and you can't make a single mistake.

01:03:25.000 So there's an emphasis on perfection.

01:03:27.000 I think China has a similar kind of thing.

01:03:29.000 Like you're afraid.

01:03:31.000 The way I'm afraid when I go to a hard training session for Jiu Jitsu, like beforehand, like fear, I was afraid going to school.

01:03:39.000 Because there's an expectation of excellence, there's an expectation of perfection. 0.98

01:03:43.000 If you suck, You're not going to, like, everybody looks down on you. 0.99

01:03:48.000 And if you are excellent, everybody celebrates you. 1.00

01:03:50.000 And that creates a huge amount of pressure.

01:03:52.000 But when a lot of the population does that, there's just an intellectual nature to everybody.

01:03:59.000 The athletes, just everybody.

01:04:01.000 The plumber, everybody in the population is all of a sudden philosophical.

01:04:06.000 And that, like, the Satya brothers that are sort of made Dagestan and Russian wrestling famous...

01:04:14.000 They're poetic.

01:04:17.000 There's just a poetry.

01:04:18.000 There's a romanticism.

01:04:20.000 There's philosophy in the way people spoke.

01:04:23.000 And I think that's connected to the language, but I'm not sure it's like the chicken or the egg.

01:04:28.000 I don't know if just the language is being used in this way or the language enables that kind of communication.

01:04:34.000 That does make me wonder, because I know English and Russian, how much I'm losing that I can't speak Chinese or Japanese or Portuguese.

01:04:45.000 Like, how much of the culture am I missing that I'll never get a chance to truly deeply experience?

01:04:50.000 Yeah, I would imagine that if you could understand Mandarin, if you could speak Mandarin and Get an understanding of how the government communicates with the people, how the government controls people in China,

01:05:06.000 what they allow, what kind of conversations they allow.

01:05:10.000 I'm sure you saw the John Cena video where he was apologizing to China.

01:05:16.000 I would love to hear these billionaires that are apologizing to China, like Jack Ma.

01:05:23.000 They disappeared him for four months and then he came back and he was happy to be alive. 0.97

01:05:29.000 They took billions of dollars from his company, devalued it, did a lot of weird shit, right? 0.98

01:05:34.000 What did he do? 0.99

01:05:35.000 He criticized the government in some way?

01:05:37.000 I don't even know, did he criticize?

01:05:40.000 I believe he did.

01:05:40.000 I believe that was his fatal flaw.

01:05:43.000 And many people thought he was dead because they've done that before.

01:05:47.000 There have been billionaires before that stepped out of line and they vanished forever. 0.99

01:05:52.000 And either they're in a jail somewhere or who the fuck knows. 0.89

01:05:56.000 But it's fascinating because they have this weird combination of capitalism and dictatorship. 0.97

01:06:04.000 But the censorship there and the surveillance, that's a perfect atmosphere for brilliant writing to emerge in the shadows, right?

01:06:14.000 Really?

01:06:15.000 That's the same with the Soviet Union. 0.50

01:06:16.000 Because people don't want to be, the human spirit doesn't want to be oppressed in this way.

01:06:20.000 But in the Soviet Union, it was never the kind of electronic censorship.

01:06:24.000 Right.

01:06:24.000 See, the problem with electronic censorship is it's all entailing.

01:06:28.000 You can't hide in a pub somewhere.

01:06:30.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:06:31.000 Like, you can't go into a basement and...

01:06:35.000 I mean, you can, but the reality is most communication is done digitally.

01:06:39.000 It's done online.

01:06:40.000 And when they have their tentacles into all these servers and into everyone's phone and into everyone's computer, The consequences of communicating openly are very real.

01:06:55.000 Yeah, but first of all, the surveillance is not perfect.

01:06:58.000 But second of all, even without electronics, what surveillance used to look like is what is currently in North Korea is you don't know who to trust.

01:07:09.000 You feel like everybody, your parents, your sister, your brother, your kids are all watching you.

01:07:14.000 Well, they all report on each other in North Korea.

01:07:16.000 They have to.

01:07:17.000 And so, like, that's...

01:07:18.000 Like, it's...

01:07:20.000 Basically, it takes a person who says, I don't care.

01:07:23.000 I'm willing to die for the things that are in my heart.

01:07:25.000 I'm going to put them on paper.

01:07:26.000 And I'm going to write some of the greatest literature, some of the greatest poetry ever written.

01:07:30.000 I mean, that...

01:07:32.000 That's kind of what I'm saying is I wish I was able to connect to that literature being written right now in China.

01:07:41.000 That probably is circulating and a lot of people know, but we just don't have a connection because China is a good example, at least from the way I understand, of there being a very big gap culturally and language-wise between America and China.

01:07:56.000 Even bigger than I would say between America and Russia. 0.88

01:08:00.000 So it really is a leap of language, a leap of culture required to truly understand the people.

01:08:06.000 And it's sad that we can't.

01:08:08.000 Or at least I feel like that's a huge learning curve, a huge burden to connect.

01:08:14.000 Because these are like power centers.

01:08:16.000 China's getting stronger and stronger.

01:08:18.000 And I believe the way forward isn't through war.

01:08:21.000 It's through love, through connecting, through mixing the cultures and all that.

01:08:27.000 But because of the language gap, that might be difficult.

01:08:30.000 They have their own social networks.

01:08:32.000 They have their own internet, essentially.

01:08:35.000 They have their own in-house thing.

01:08:38.000 Yeah, but they have illegal songs. 1.00

01:08:40.000 You're not allowed to sing and karaoke.

01:08:42.000 I mean, the overwhelming censorship that they have and the overwhelming control that they have over the population is very different than what we tolerate currently.

01:08:51.000 My concern over here is that we're moving towards some sort of social credit score.

01:08:57.000 And I think that's one of the big concerns that people have with vaccine passports and things along those lines.

01:09:02.000 It's a slippery slope.

01:09:04.000 And to inviting this kind of control over the population and to make it to normalize it.

01:09:12.000 And to make it, you go from that to this and make it so that they have access to your whereabouts. 0.88

01:09:20.000 And because, you know, they need to track you for COVID-19 or COVID-23 or whatever the fuck it is.

01:09:26.000 When they ramp things up and make them even more intrusive than we have, we can get closer to what they have in China. 1.00

01:09:33.000 And it's fucking dangerous.

01:09:36.000 Yeah, it's terrifying because people, for the most part, are losing trust in our institutions and governments and being able to use something like vaccine passport data to help us as opposed to limit our freedoms. 0.96

01:09:53.000 And that's really disappointing because things like vaccine passports might be effective if it was done by competent institutions.

01:10:03.000 But right now, I would definitely be against something like that.

01:10:07.000 Well, the problem with it is you can still transmit it and you can still catch it.

01:10:10.000 So if it was a vaccine passport for polio, okay.

01:10:14.000 Or the measles, okay.

01:10:16.000 But you're talking about a vaccine that does not prevent you from catching this disease, nor does it prevent you from spreading it.

01:10:24.000 So it doesn't make any sense.

01:10:25.000 The effectiveness of the vaccine is in that it significantly lowers your probability of dying.

01:10:32.000 So that's the pro for the vaccine.

01:10:36.000 That's a really important thing about the vaccine.

01:10:39.000 In the short term.

01:10:41.000 And everything about the long-term, we don't know.

01:10:43.000 We don't know, yeah.

01:10:46.000 That's the discussion with ivermectin.

01:10:48.000 It's like, what do we know about the long-term?

01:10:51.000 It's been used for a long time, but we still don't have a good understanding of long-term positive or negative effects of ivermectin.

01:10:58.000 We don't have a good understanding of positive and negative long-term effects of mRNA vaccines.

01:11:04.000 But they have other things for therapeutics like Regeneron, the monoclonal antibodies that show incredible effectiveness.

01:11:10.000 There's other things that they do that, you know, help people when they have the disease.

01:11:15.000 But as far as I understand, I mean the data on vaccines, it's like you have a set of solutions and the question is which one has the best ratio of benefits to risks.

01:11:28.000 It seems to me that the vaccine has the best benefit to risk ratio.

01:11:36.000 It's very confusing to me that we're not opening schools and still behaving in certain parts of the United States like we're on lockdown.

01:11:44.000 Even though there's vaccines.

01:11:46.000 So that's really confusing to me because from my understanding, taking the vaccine significantly lowers your risk of death or ending up in a hospital.

01:11:56.000 So if anyone who wants to take the vaccine or is at risk or wants to lower their risk of dying will take the vaccine.

01:12:05.000 Everyone else accepts the risk of dying.

01:12:07.000 Great.

01:12:08.000 Open up the society.

01:12:09.000 I don't understand why it's not completely open now.

01:12:13.000 So you have full freedom.

01:12:15.000 There's more than enough vaccines to take the vaccine.

01:12:20.000 There are vaccines available to be vaccinated.

01:12:24.000 And from that point, it's on you to decide what are the risks you're willing to accept.

01:12:29.000 Well, there's a lot of issues, right?

01:12:31.000 Certain companies want to force people to be vaccinated and then there's the issues of side effects of vaccines and whether or not they're fully understood and particularly long term and whether or not they've been fully reported.

01:12:46.000 And then also there's a lack of responsibility.

01:12:50.000 The vaccine manufacturers don't have any responsibility in terms of what does or does not happen to someone once they can't be sued.

01:12:59.000 Yeah.

01:13:00.000 So the problem is the source of information for the effectiveness of vaccines and the risks are coming from centralized institutions that have completely lost trust of the public.

01:13:13.000 Yeah.

01:13:13.000 So it's like, you know...

01:13:16.000 Well, have you ever Googled, like, the lawsuits that are involved in the judgments against the various companies that have built these vaccines?

01:13:25.000 It's some stunning corruption in the past and some horrible cases where they've shown to withhold evidence and studies.

01:13:40.000 People don't trust pharmaceutical companies and they haven't for a long time.

01:13:44.000 And now there's a lot of money to be made to get people vaccinated and to make that public policy.

01:13:50.000 That's an understatement.

01:13:51.000 It's a huge amount of money.

01:13:52.000 And so the incentives are not well aligned.

01:13:54.000 And then there's people who, I mean, there's not enough authentic, strong leadership.

01:14:03.000 You have somebody like Fauci, who basically nobody really trusts anymore, as being the chief communicator of how we proceed forward.

01:14:15.000 That's a huge problem.

01:14:16.000 You don't have just the fact that people don't trust him.

01:14:20.000 You have the mainstream media ignoring all the things that he's done that would lead people to distrust him, particularly financing EcoHealth Alliance, which was responsible for gain-of-function research in Wuhan, which is responsible, perhaps, 0.97

01:14:35.000 for the leak of this fucking virus in the first place. 0.79

01:14:38.000 Which, by the way, if he was completely transparent about that, he was able to just talk about it normally, like a human being. 0.97

01:14:47.000 There was a lot of interesting arguments about gain-of-function research for a long time.

01:14:52.000 It's very difficult to understand whether it should be funded.

01:14:54.000 I think it definitely should not be funded.

01:14:58.000 We should not be doing gain-of-function research.

01:15:00.000 Well, if they are doing it, it should be done with responsible labs.

01:15:02.000 And they know that that lab in Wuhan was cited in 2018 for safety violations.

01:15:07.000 But the problem to me with Fauci isn't the actions he did, it's the lack of transparency and just basic human, authentic communication.

01:15:15.000 It's the same problem as with Bill Gates.

01:15:17.000 I think Bill Gates is a brilliant person, I like him, but there's something shady about the way he communicates about stuff.

01:15:23.000 Whenever he buys a lot of land, he's not very clear about communicating why he bought that land.

01:15:28.000 And so immediately, conspiracy theories spring up that spread effectively through our Q friend, And others like him. 0.81

01:15:37.000 And the final result that hurts my heart deeply is the mistrust in science.

01:15:44.000 So like mistrust in scientific institutions lead to mistrust in science. 0.97

01:15:48.000 And then there's like this kind of sense that science sucks.

01:15:51.000 No, science and technology enables the high quality of life that you currently have.

01:15:56.000 It gives you the freedom to be able to tweet and the freedom period to choose the path in life for most of the people in the United States.

01:16:05.000 That's science and technology.

01:16:07.000 Also to get medical help on an infinite number of conditions you might have.

01:16:13.000 That's science.

01:16:14.000 The best aspect of life that you can think of are presented by science today.

01:16:21.000 So there's a lot of great stuff being done by science. 0.93

01:16:23.000 Don't let shady, greedy assholes at the very kind of top that are communicating science as part of our government be somehow connected to what is the essence of science. 0.90

01:16:37.000 So that to me hurts me in this conversation about vaccines is that somehow it's somehow leading to a mistrust in all the amazing things that science has brought us. 0.96

01:16:51.000 There's also a problem with people like him where they say things, they say these statements, these statements that you're led to believe that they have an understanding of the situation, and they clearly can tell you where it's going and what's possible and where we're at with the virus.

01:17:13.000 But then it turns out they're 100% wrong.

01:17:15.000 But then they come up with a new statement, and you're supposed to believe that.

01:17:19.000 Remember, like, in the beginning, he was saying that masks are ineffective.

01:17:22.000 He was saying there's no asymptomatic transmission of the virus.

01:17:25.000 There's all these different statements.

01:17:27.000 They were saying that it's just...

01:17:31.000 When they don't know, they never say, we don't know.

01:17:34.000 They don't say, this is very confusing and we're trying to figure it out as we go along.

01:17:40.000 And this is the best course of action currently under the current amount of uncertainty.

01:17:45.000 Right.

01:17:45.000 There's so many wrong ways that the communication has been done.

01:17:49.000 First of all, this is true for a lot of scientists at the top, is they're talking down to people.

01:17:55.000 Right.

01:17:56.000 And I'm allergic to this.

01:17:58.000 Fauci certainly is.

01:17:59.000 He is as if he is bringing down the Ten Commandments from the sky.

01:18:04.000 He talked about it in third person.

01:18:05.000 He said, if you criticize Andrew Fauci, you're criticizing science.

01:18:09.000 It's ego.

01:18:10.000 At the end of the day, it's ego.

01:18:11.000 And ego is the thing that destroys all awesome things.

01:18:14.000 If you let ego get in the way, that's always going to destroy things.

01:18:18.000 So I'm sure Fauci was an excellent scientist for most of his life.

01:18:22.000 The higher and higher you get in a position, especially administrative positions, that power starts getting to you.

01:18:29.000 Well, he's used to communicating for most of his career without the internet.

01:18:35.000 You gotta think, he was the guy who was the head of the United States response to the AIDS crisis.

01:18:42.000 And he was the guy who was responsible, I don't know what his exact role was, in prescribing AZT for people who had AIDS, which turned out to be disastrous.

01:18:57.000 Okay, so, you know, I don't know the actual decisions.

01:19:01.000 I'm sure he might have, there have been a lot of things we're not saying that made him a great scientist.

01:19:05.000 The point is, he's not a great communicator of science, or certainly a great leader.

01:19:10.000 And what we need now is a great leader to communicate the current data available in the vaccines, as far as I understand.

01:19:18.000 Objectively.

01:19:20.000 Like, from everything I see, and that's why, like, Brett Weinstein stands on his own with, like, an army of mainstream media against them, sort of communicating what are the different options out there, like Ivermectin, one of them.

01:19:35.000 He may very well be wrong.

01:19:37.000 I tend to think the effectiveness of ivermectin will not be as high as he predicts.

01:19:45.000 I think the effectiveness of ivermectin has only been really proven in terms of prophylactic.

01:19:52.000 As a prophylactic, I think it has a high level of effectiveness according to some of the studies that they've done like out of Argentina and a few other places where they did it with frontline workers.

01:20:03.000 I think the studies and some of them have been shown to be not great studies.

01:20:07.000 I don't know.

01:20:08.000 There's challenges to that.

01:20:09.000 The point is not enough studies have been done.

01:20:11.000 It should be a long time ago.

01:20:14.000 There should have been large scale studies done and it should have been treated as a serious alternative.

01:20:21.000 Or at least studied as a serious alternative.

01:20:23.000 Studied as a serious alternative.

01:20:25.000 And then on the vaccine side, I mean, it all comes down to effectiveness.

01:20:29.000 Which is more effective, the vaccine or ivermectin?

01:20:32.000 That should be studied really well.

01:20:33.000 There's really good data on the vaccine now.

01:20:36.000 The point...

01:20:38.000 There's the ability to collect really good data on the vaccine, but the way it's being collected is very shady in terms of breakthrough cases and not being measured well.

01:20:48.000 And on the flip side, the reporting of when the use of the vaccine leads to side effects is not done well.

01:20:56.000 People are over-reporting it.

01:20:58.000 Over-reporting?

01:21:00.000 We don't know.

01:21:02.000 The point is they're free to just say, you're free to report a death because of the vaccine.

01:21:07.000 Like, there's some crazy number being reported death because...

01:21:10.000 You're talking about the VAERS report?

01:21:11.000 Yeah, the VAERS. Yeah, that database.

01:21:13.000 Like, that's not good data collection.

01:21:15.000 Because you basically...

01:21:17.000 Again, something like Q could lead, like, armies of people to report stuff.

01:21:25.000 Yeah, that is a real problem, right?

01:21:26.000 If someone decided to misinform people purposely and then talk about, you know, the under-reporting of side effects and what's really going on and how, you know, the long-term effects have been demonstrated but they're holding that information from you and then people start leaking that.

01:21:42.000 Yeah.

01:21:43.000 And the final result is nobody trusts anything, so you don't know what to do.

01:21:48.000 And then how are you supposed to proceed forward?

01:21:52.000 And then government kind of continues wanting to gain more and more power by sort of doing actions like lockdowns and enforcing vaccinations and all those kinds of things because that allows you to grow government.

01:22:06.000 And the whole thing is just...

01:22:10.000 It feels like it's not heading towards a solution.

01:22:13.000 To me, there's a few obvious solutions from the very beginning.

01:22:17.000 There should have been the world's largest infrastructure project for testing.

01:22:21.000 There should be at-home testing every single day from May of 2020. It's super cheap, less than a dollar to manufacture tests taken every single day.

01:22:33.000 That data is not being collected.

01:22:36.000 It gives you complete knowledge and freedom to make your own decisions whether to go out or not.

01:22:41.000 Well, there's the other problem, is that as soon as there's a crisis, then the government changes its position from working for the people, people that are elected to work for you, to try to make life better and more organized, to someone who controls people and tells them what to do because of the safety of the masses.

01:23:01.000 And this is not a debatable issue.

01:23:03.000 They get to decide.

01:23:05.000 Look what's going on in Australia right now. 1.00

01:23:07.000 Australia is fucking madness. 1.00

01:23:09.000 They have very, very few deaths, very few cases, and they've got everything locked down. 1.00

01:23:14.000 They have places in supermarkets and stores...

01:23:18.000 Roped off where you can't go into them because they're non-essential areas of a store.

01:23:23.000 Like someone sent me some photos of these areas of stores with like party supplies and things like that.

01:23:29.000 They literally have like a rope around it and a sign that says these are non-essential goods.

01:23:34.000 You are forbidden for going into this area.

01:23:36.000 This store is only for essential items.

01:23:39.000 And the number of deaths over there and the number of cases is very low.

01:23:44.000 But they're trying in a very draconian way to eliminate any possible future.

01:23:51.000 They want to keep people in their houses. 0.99

01:23:52.000 The military is circling over houses and yelling out at people at bullhorns, get back in your house. 1.00

01:23:58.000 It's fucking crazy. 0.97

01:24:01.000 I'd love to hear what you think the solution is. 0.98

01:24:03.000 From my understanding, and it's a very limited understanding, I think you should definitely not have any kind of vaccine passports.

01:24:11.000 I don't trust the government enough to allow...

01:24:14.000 Any kind of control of your ability to travel and your whereabouts.

01:24:19.000 I do not trust them.

01:24:20.000 That said, I've looked at quite a bit of the data.

01:24:24.000 I may be wrong on this.

01:24:25.000 I talked to Brett.

01:24:26.000 I talked to Sam Harris.

01:24:28.000 I think it's a wise choice to take the vaccine.

01:24:32.000 If you're at all concerned about ending up in a hospital.

01:24:36.000 So if you have any kind of conditions that might lead to...

01:24:40.000 You're talking about if someone's obese or if someone's older?

01:24:43.000 Yeah.

01:24:43.000 Well, if you are a person who's a high-risk group, it's probably a good idea.

01:24:48.000 My parents have been vaccinated.

01:24:49.000 But it's hard to know what's...

01:24:51.000 I know quite a few people that COVID really leveled that are not a high-risk group.

01:24:56.000 They're in reasonably good shape, not obese.

01:25:00.000 Were they run down when they got it?

01:25:01.000 That's...

01:25:02.000 I mean, I don't know.

01:25:03.000 See, I know a lot of people that got hit really hard, and I also know a lot of people who brushed it off like it was nothing.

01:25:08.000 It's hard to tell.

01:25:09.000 It's hard.

01:25:10.000 That's very difficult.

01:25:11.000 That's the scary thing about this.

01:25:13.000 It's very confusing.

01:25:14.000 And also when you're dealing with different variants, it's very confusing because you have different results.

01:25:20.000 There is a different impact on people.

01:25:23.000 And then there's this new Lambda variant that supposedly is immune to the vaccine.

01:25:29.000 Yeah, so you're going to get this kind of influenza, flu type of situation where there's going to be...

01:25:34.000 I mean, that's one possible future is we're going to keep getting variants.

01:25:38.000 So you can't just, like, hope that the vaccine will somehow destroy the virus.

01:25:44.000 You might every single year start getting variants.

01:25:46.000 We have to figure out a set of policies that allow us to open up the society.

01:25:51.000 But can you remember in recent memory...

01:25:56.000 Any topic of conversation has divided people more than this vaccine topic or made people more angry than this vaccine topic.

01:26:05.000 Well, there's Trump.

01:26:08.000 Yeah, it's close.

01:26:08.000 It's close.

01:26:10.000 Global warming, Trump.

01:26:10.000 Let's see.

01:26:13.000 No, global warming, it seems like, unless it's happening right now.

01:26:16.000 The thing is, it is affecting you, but then you go in your house and the AC's on, you get mad, but it's not the same kind of mad.

01:26:24.000 There's a mad that people have about vaccines, particularly people that have taken the vaccine and want everybody to take the vaccine.

01:26:31.000 Even people that are obese and don't take care of themselves, they somehow or another feel like they've done their responsibility.

01:26:39.000 So, you're right, because the topic of the vaccine, actually, there's very few people in the middle.

01:26:39.000 Right.

01:26:45.000 Right.

01:26:46.000 Like, very few people, like, being open-minded to everything. 1.00

01:26:50.000 Most people are, like, emotionally saying, fuck you and your vaccine, or saying... 1.00

01:26:50.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:26:56.000 Fuck you, take the vaccine. 1.00

01:26:57.000 Take the vaccine. 1.00

01:26:58.000 Yeah.

01:26:59.000 It's very uncomfortable to be in the middle of this.

01:27:03.000 And it's also, it's one of those things where people have a position and then they get very emotional and very angry supporting their position, defending their position, and attacking the other position.

01:27:16.000 Well, you're either attacking my family's health or you're attacking my freedom.

01:27:22.000 That's the way they think about it.

01:27:24.000 It's not just that.

01:27:25.000 You may be supporting the pharmaceutical industrial complex that may or may not be killing people.

01:27:36.000 You know what I mean?

01:27:37.000 It's like you get into these weird conversations with people when it comes to that.

01:27:41.000 Have you ever heard the former vice president of Pfizer talk about the vaccine?

01:27:48.000 I'll send you a link. 0.99

01:27:50.000 It's fucking crazy. 0.98

01:27:51.000 This guy has some very strong opinions about it and said he would have resigned if he was working there when they were releasing the vaccines. 0.99

01:28:02.000 People have super strong opinions about this.

01:28:06.000 And I think over time we're going to find out what side was correct.

01:28:11.000 We're going to find out.

01:28:12.000 It's going to take a while to really sort through all the data and figure out have the side effects been overblown?

01:28:19.000 Have the side effects been underreported?

01:28:22.000 Like what exactly does this stuff do to you in the long term?

01:28:26.000 Because right now we don't know.

01:28:27.000 The problem is we live in an age where we don't look back.

01:28:33.000 So yes, we'll know.

01:28:35.000 There'll be documents and data released who was right on this, whether masks were an effective solution, whether vaccines were effective solutions.

01:28:44.000 But there'll be a new problem. 0.99

01:28:45.000 There'll be a new problem and nobody will give a shit. 0.99

01:28:47.000 Well, there'll be something that obfuscates it. 0.99

01:28:49.000 There'll be something that overwhelms us in the moment where we won't think about what happened six months ago or a year ago.

01:28:56.000 So we have to learn to solve things now.

01:28:59.000 There's plenty of data.

01:29:00.000 If it was done correctly, there's plenty of data on vaccines.

01:29:03.000 If it was done correctly, there should have been already plenty of good data on ivermectin.

01:29:07.000 But there's no data on vaccines in terms of long-term side effects.

01:29:11.000 Right.

01:29:13.000 There's no data on most things of its nature.

01:29:20.000 There's long-term data on vaccines for other things.

01:29:23.000 They're not mRNA.

01:29:24.000 But the mRNA one, the thing is about is the spike protein.

01:29:28.000 And what the spike protein does to the body.

01:29:28.000 The spike protein.

01:29:30.000 Right.

01:29:30.000 But there's also, very importantly, not good long-term data on the effects of COVID, the virus.

01:29:37.000 And using basic medical intuition, the destructive nature of COVID, the virus, is worse than the vaccines.

01:29:46.000 We don't know that for sure.

01:29:49.000 It might be.

01:29:50.000 It might be.

01:29:51.000 The long COVID thing is freaky to people.

01:29:54.000 And what's weird is that some people, long COVID is actually mitigated by the vaccine.

01:30:00.000 So people that have had long COVID and then get vaccinated afterwards, apparently it helps them with long COVID. And then you have...

01:30:07.000 Whatever the fuck long COVID is. 0.95

01:30:09.000 I don't even like saying that. 0.97

01:30:10.000 That sounds kind of badass to me.

01:30:13.000 Long COVID? Yeah.

01:30:15.000 I don't know.

01:30:17.000 It sounds like...

01:30:18.000 I would hope, and this is one thing that I'm kind of disappointed, that there would be some sort of a push for health.

01:30:25.000 There'd be a push for people to change their diet and start a rigorous exercise routine.

01:30:32.000 One of the things that we are absolutely sure of is that the people that get hit the hardest are the people that are in poor shape.

01:30:39.000 People that are obese, people that have underlying health conditions, a lot of them that could be mitigated by exercise and diet and a loss of weight.

01:30:48.000 There's so many people that have all sorts of health problems that could be mitigated by becoming healthy and losing weight.

01:30:55.000 And there's no push for this at all.

01:30:57.000 It's only pharmaceutical interventions.

01:30:59.000 That's all you're hearing.

01:31:00.000 And that's nuts.

01:31:02.000 I would love Biden or Fauci to just tell everybody to get on a treadmill.

01:31:06.000 I'll go do jiu-jitsu.

01:31:07.000 It's putting people in this position where you leave them completely disempowered.

01:31:13.000 Yeah.

01:31:14.000 The only thing you can do is take a shot.

01:31:17.000 This is the only thing you can do. 0.97

01:31:18.000 Well, there's probably some room in the middle where someone should say, this is probably going to be exacerbated by the fact that you're obese.

01:31:29.000 So if you lost weight and you got healthier, you'd have a way better time of it if you caught it, and you're going to have a way better life, period.

01:31:39.000 And wouldn't this be a good time to do this now, now that we realize that we're in a health crisis?

01:31:44.000 But there's no discussion to this.

01:31:46.000 And it's so frustrating for someone, and yourself too, someone who takes care of themselves, someone who does exercise on a regular basis.

01:31:55.000 Yeah, I would love to see those studies, like how much cardio you do per week versus the effect of COVID on you.

01:32:01.000 Right.

01:32:02.000 That'd be interesting.

01:32:03.000 I mean, yeah, ultimately that has to do with the long-term health care, like being in shape, being healthy, all those kinds of things.

01:32:12.000 This is anecdotal in nature, but the people that I know that don't exercise got hit hardest.

01:32:17.000 The people I know that are in really good shape got the easiest time of it.

01:32:23.000 This is a good plug for jiu-jitsu.

01:32:25.000 It's a good plug for running.

01:32:26.000 It's a good plug for exercise, diet, and just metabolic health, taking care of yourself.

01:32:34.000 You know, also different stressors like heat and cold and different things that people do.

01:32:41.000 There was a good paper that was written about a sauna and COVID-19.

01:32:44.000 It's really interesting.

01:32:45.000 About how the temperature that your body can tolerate, you know, in terms of like sauna, is far higher than what COVID can tolerate.

01:32:57.000 And as a mitigating therapy, heat therapy, and sauna bathing, I'll send it to you.

01:33:06.000 Very interesting study.

01:33:08.000 I wonder what the effects of ice bath are.

01:33:10.000 Yeah, same thing.

01:33:11.000 Extreme temperatures?

01:33:13.000 Extreme temperatures producing anti-inflammatory cytokines that can help you with all sorts of issues.

01:33:22.000 Yeah, Huberman is really big on the ice bath.

01:33:24.000 He's been doing a lot of that.

01:33:25.000 I don't know if you've talked to him about it.

01:33:27.000 But you know, Wim Hof proved during a scientific study where they injected him with E. coli.

01:33:39.000 And he controlled it with these wild ass breathing exercises that he does.

01:33:46.000 Did you ever read that study?

01:33:48.000 No.

01:33:48.000 Combined with the cold?

01:33:49.000 Yeah, they did it at a university.

01:33:50.000 No, not combined with the cold, just his breathing exercises.

01:33:54.000 Interesting.

01:33:55.000 Find out that study that they did with Wim Hof and what university it was at.

01:33:59.000 But, you know, he was trying to explain that you can regulate your immune system with breathing exercises, these crazy deep breathing exercises. 0.99

01:34:12.000 And, you know, most people hear that and they go, what kind of fucking nonsense is that? 0.99

01:34:16.000 But he proved it. 0.99

01:34:17.000 Like, they monitored him and they injected him with E. coli.

01:34:22.000 And I believe within 15 minutes his body had fought it off.

01:34:27.000 Yeah.

01:34:28.000 There's so many mysteries to the human body.

01:34:30.000 Breath is like the big one.

01:34:31.000 That's a big one.

01:34:32.000 Yeah.

01:34:33.000 Because we know for a fact that it does have an impact on your immune system. 0.99

01:34:36.000 It sounds like complete horseshit, woo-woo, new age nonsense. 0.95

01:34:41.000 I mean, you had Hickson in here. 0.98

01:34:43.000 He understood something about the breath for performance.

01:34:43.000 Yeah.

01:34:48.000 Well, I think for performance, but also for control of your emotions.

01:34:53.000 And you can achieve these states of harmony with all the systems of your body where you have some sort of autonomous control over it.

01:35:03.000 He's a wild man.

01:35:05.000 Wim Hof is a wild man.

01:35:06.000 The Iceman Wim Hof is long viewed as scientifically impossible.

01:35:13.000 It wasn't until the first, how do you say that?

01:35:16.000 Radboud?

01:35:17.000 Radboud University study in 2011?

01:35:20.000 That things really kicked off.

01:35:22.000 Studies show that by using his method, Wim was able to voluntarily influence his autonomic nervous system, something which until then was thought impossible.

01:35:30.000 This groundbreaking finding published in PNAS and Nature established credibility, quite literally rewrote biology textbooks, and piqued scientist's curiosity.

01:35:40.000 What does it say though that they did though?

01:35:45.000 There's actually some papers that showed Yeah, there it is.

01:35:51.000 Voluntary activation of the sympathetic nervous system attenuation of the innate immune response in humans.

01:35:59.000 So this is the study, this is the very same study?

01:36:06.000 Were they injected him?

01:36:07.000 Sure.

01:36:08.000 Are you sure?

01:36:09.000 I'm not 100% sure.

01:36:11.000 You think he'd be the only subject?

01:36:13.000 Well, I think...

01:36:14.000 Yeah, I typed in Wienhoff study, you know, and this is the top thing that popped up.

01:36:19.000 Right, here it is.

01:36:20.000 It talks about cytokines and inflammatory, and I didn't see anything about an injection, but I didn't search the...

01:36:26.000 I'm trying to look at it fast.

01:36:27.000 Right, it just doesn't name him specifically, but this is the actual study.

01:36:31.000 Yeah, they don't like...

01:36:32.000 There it is.

01:36:33.000 Oh, interesting.

01:36:34.000 They don't usually like to name subjects.

01:36:36.000 Well, the thing about him is that he has a gigantic history of these breathing exercises.

01:36:45.000 So he's become an expert then, and he's finely tuned.

01:36:48.000 It's not like someone who's like, well, I hope this works.

01:36:51.000 Like, he has a very strong belief in the ability to regulate his immune system.

01:36:56.000 Some of that is mental, right?

01:36:58.000 Yeah, right?

01:36:59.000 How much of it is?

01:37:01.000 Say that it is.

01:37:03.000 This endotoxin was obtained from the Pharmaceutical Development Section of the National Institutes of Health, supplied as a lyophilized...

01:37:21.000 Lyophilized powder and was reconstituted in five milliliters of saline at 0.9% for the injection and vortex mixed for at least 20 minutes after reconstitution.

01:37:32.000 The LPS solution was administered as an IV bolus injection at a dose of two nanograms per kilogram body weight in one...

01:37:44.000 Placed in an anticubital vein to permit infusion of 0.9 NACI solution.

01:37:54.000 The subjects received... 0.99

01:37:56.000 Boy, there's a lot of fucking scientific terminology here. 0.98

01:37:58.000 I was just showing you the E. coli part. 0.98

01:38:00.000 So this is the study.

01:38:00.000 Yeah.

01:38:02.000 This is like in extreme scientific terms.

01:38:07.000 Yeah, I like the details of exactly what they did.

01:38:09.000 Yeah, continuous monitoring of blood pressure and blood sampling, heart rate, blood pressure, respiratory rate, oxygen saturation data were recorded from a Philips MP50 patient monitor every 30 seconds by a custom in-house developed data recording system starting at one hour before administration of LPS until discharge from the intensive care unit eight hours after LPS administration. 0.96

01:38:37.000 This is really interesting shit. 0.97

01:38:38.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:38:39.000 So this is, like, thoroughly monitoring.

01:38:42.000 I like how they studied him as a single, like, gorilla specimen.

01:38:45.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:38:45.000 Some fucking alien. 1.00

01:38:47.000 Well, I mean, he also, like, he holds the world record, or he held the world record of swimming under ice. 0.99

01:38:53.000 Yeah.

01:38:54.000 You know, and all this stuff is with breathwork and his ability to control his mind and his emotions and...

01:39:01.000 To be completely in tune with his body.

01:39:03.000 He was a yoga instructor, so he's been a yogi before that.

01:39:07.000 His whole life study has been about his body and about balance and being able to control all of his systems.

01:39:14.000 And he's such an intense human.

01:39:17.000 When you're around Wim Hof and he's talking to you about breathing, you get a sense that there's this energy that this guy has, this power that this guy has.

01:39:27.000 And so when you think about that in terms of what he's able to do with this study, you go, okay, well, how much of this is applicable to a regular person?

01:39:34.000 And how long does it take to get...

01:39:36.000 Is this like a black belt in jujitsu?

01:39:38.000 Like, I can show you an arm bar, but can you do it to me?

01:39:41.000 You know what I mean?

01:39:41.000 Like, if you show a white belt an arm bar, I take some guy and go, hey, I'm going to show you how to do an arm bar, and then you're going to put me in your guard, and then you're going to try to do an arm bar.

01:39:50.000 It's two very different things.

01:39:52.000 But black belt, you can get... 1.00

01:39:54.000 There's black belts and there's black belts.

01:39:56.000 Right.

01:39:57.000 You can get a black belt in 10 years, say, but then...

01:40:00.000 There's a Hicks and Gracie black belt.

01:40:01.000 Can anyone become a Gordon Ryan, a Hicks and Gracie?

01:40:04.000 Can anyone become that?

01:40:05.000 Not everyone.

01:40:06.000 Can anyone become Wim Hof?

01:40:08.000 Right.

01:40:08.000 How much time does it take to have that kind of control of your body?

01:40:13.000 See, I tend to believe, I'm with Donahar on this, I tend to believe basically almost anybody can become that.

01:40:18.000 I mean, there's a few ingredients, but with the right coaching, with the right sort of focus, I think maybe not the greatest ever, but you can become pretty damn good.

01:40:31.000 Well, you have to have physical resiliency in jujitsu, meaning that your body has to hold up through the training.

01:40:38.000 That's the difference between jujitsu and, say, breathing exercises.

01:40:42.000 The breathing exercises, the risk of injury isn't there.

01:40:46.000 The thing about jujitsu is there's constant strain on the discs and the joints.

01:40:51.000 There's guys that just aren't going to make it, you know?

01:40:53.000 And there's quite a few, in fact.

01:40:55.000 Especially if you train the way that the Don Hurd Death Squad does.

01:40:58.000 I mean, these guys, like Gordon Ryan, train seven days a week, 365 days a year.

01:41:02.000 They don't take off days for Christmas.

01:41:04.000 They don't take off days for New Year's, Easter. 1.00

01:41:06.000 Go fuck yourself. 1.00

01:41:07.000 Get in here on the mats. 1.00

01:41:09.000 And Don Hurd doesn't take days off, so they don't take days off either.

01:41:12.000 By the way, can I just say, it's probably partially your influence, but they're all a little bit separate.

01:41:19.000 Mom and Dad are fighting, but they're all moving to Austin, Texas, which I love.

01:41:24.000 Craig's already here.

01:41:26.000 I'd like to give a shout-out to Gabe Tuttle, I guess, from 10th Planet.

01:41:30.000 Yeah, I love Gabe.

01:41:31.000 I've been training at that 10th Planet.

01:41:32.000 If anyone wants to train with me, it's 10th Planet.

01:41:34.000 It's a great school.

01:41:36.000 If you're a beginner, too, you should definitely check it out.

01:41:39.000 Craig's already here.

01:41:41.000 You may already know him from his OnlyFans account.

01:41:46.000 Subscribe.

01:41:47.000 Does he really have an OnlyFans account?

01:41:49.000 I think he just talks, like yells at people for having bad jiu-jitsu.

01:41:49.000 Yeah, he actually does.

01:41:53.000 I haven't actually checked out.

01:41:55.000 So he actually has an OnlyFans gift to subscribe to?

01:41:58.000 I don't know if it's paid or not.

01:41:58.000 Yeah.

01:42:00.000 We're giving a lot of air for Craig's OnlyFans account.

01:42:05.000 There it is!

01:42:07.000 He looks good in a leopard speedo.

01:42:10.000 That's what I always come second.

01:42:11.000 Objectively speaking.

01:42:13.000 That's hilarious.

01:42:15.000 1,000 likes.

01:42:16.000 He's the guy that had a serious reaction to the vaccine.

01:42:19.000 Serious.

01:42:20.000 Like his whole body filled up with fluid.

01:42:22.000 It was nasty.

01:42:24.000 And he never took the second shot because of it.

01:42:26.000 Did you ever see the videos of it?

01:42:28.000 I haven't seen the videos.

01:42:29.000 His lymph nodes were leaking into the side of his body and he got to the point where it was like a water balloon.

01:42:35.000 He could touch his body and he was in bed for like 10 or 11 days after the vaccine.

01:42:40.000 So he's the first person that made me kind of think twice about the vaccine because he's obviously one of the best, a person who is in one of the greatest shapes possible, right?

01:42:51.000 He's elite level athlete.

01:42:52.000 Elite level shape.

01:42:54.000 And the fact that he has such an extreme reaction to the vaccine, that makes you think twice.

01:43:01.000 Yeah, but again, you know, it's anecdotal.

01:43:04.000 You have to look at large-scale data, and the large-scale data is not being communicated.

01:43:08.000 But large-scale data doesn't help.

01:43:10.000 The whole idea that it's anecdotal doesn't help if you're the guy who got laid out.

01:43:14.000 Yeah, no, for you on the personal level.

01:43:16.000 But he, so I really, I love training with him.

01:43:20.000 Can't wait to train with Donahar, because they value, I mean, people might not know Jiu-Jitsu well, but they value wrestling.

01:43:28.000 I think Donna posted something about Jiu Jitsu is not just about techniques, but it's an opportunity for self-expression.

01:43:37.000 I always saw martial arts that way, like an opportunity to To, like, create art with your...

01:43:47.000 There's a reason why it's called martial arts.

01:43:49.000 Yeah, it sounds pretentious, but, like, for me, wrestling and...

01:43:54.000 How do you put it politely?

01:43:56.000 But, like, wrestling-style dominance was always exciting.

01:44:00.000 Like, through technique, dominating an opponent.

01:44:00.000 Yeah.

01:44:03.000 And there's certain things, like...

01:44:03.000 Right.

01:44:06.000 Chokes and arm breaks were always exciting to me.

01:44:10.000 That's why I've never been, still am not a fan of twisting footlock, so like keel hooks and all that kind of stuff.

01:44:18.000 It's beautiful and you need to understand it.

01:44:21.000 It's a really important part of the game.

01:44:22.000 But I don't consider it art for me.

01:44:25.000 If I was a painter, I wouldn't use...

01:44:27.000 Because to me, it still feels a little like playing footsie.

01:44:31.000 What?

01:44:32.000 You're losing me right now.

01:44:32.000 Versus...

01:44:33.000 Yeah, I know.

01:44:35.000 We're different.

01:44:36.000 You're a different painter.

01:44:37.000 But it's a technique.

01:44:38.000 What do you mean?

01:44:39.000 Why that specific technique do you think is not artistic, but like a choke is?

01:44:45.000 Sorry, to be clear, I'm not judging other artists creating with that.

01:44:49.000 Obviously, it's one of the most important submissions to understand.

01:44:53.000 Craig works on it really well.

01:44:54.000 But just like Craig said, Donaher says the same thing.

01:44:57.000 Like, it's like a hundred to a thousand times harder to understand how to attack with footlocks than to defend them.

01:45:04.000 I want to understand the defensive game.

01:45:07.000 You have to understand the entirety of the systems to defend.

01:45:09.000 But to be a master at attacking is just not something that pulls me, like, pulls at me from an artistic perspective.

01:45:15.000 Is that also because of your background, that you didn't grow up and develop with leg locks?

01:45:20.000 But I was familiar with sambo, so there's a tradition in sambo.

01:45:24.000 But I just fell in love with the artistry of wrestling and judo, which is so much more about...

01:45:30.000 I would say it's about throws.

01:45:34.000 It just has a very different look.

01:45:37.000 I would say it's about the upper body.

01:45:39.000 Maybe that's the way to put it.

01:45:43.000 Yeah, there's like hand fighting.

01:45:46.000 I mean, the way Craig talks about it is like footlocks is just like hand fighting but with feet.

01:45:52.000 So I just liked hand fighting with hands.

01:45:55.000 Yeah.

01:45:56.000 Did you ever strike?

01:45:58.000 Have you done any striking? 0.74

01:45:59.000 Yeah, I love hitting the heavy bag.

01:46:01.000 Have you done any sparring or anything like that?

01:46:03.000 Yeah, a little bit.

01:46:05.000 But not like seriously.

01:46:07.000 I love hitting things.

01:46:10.000 Occasionally you'll see a fighter that does something very artistic and striking that sort of elevates the standard.

01:46:18.000 Did you see the Derrick Lewis serial gun fight?

01:46:20.000 No.

01:46:22.000 You need to see that.

01:46:23.000 There's a knockout.

01:46:24.000 Derrick Lewis got a knockout, right? 0.98

01:46:25.000 No, Cyril Ghosn beat the shit out of him. 0.99

01:46:27.000 He shut him out. 0.99

01:46:29.000 He shut him out.

01:46:30.000 Like, it was a shutout for, I think, I think he stopped him in the third.

01:46:35.000 But, I mean, Cyril Ghosn, who's 6'5", 247 pounds, moves like a 170 pounder.

01:46:45.000 It's crazy.

01:46:46.000 He's bouncing like Wonderboy.

01:46:49.000 Bouncing like this the entire fight.

01:46:51.000 Bouncing, throwing feints.

01:46:53.000 Completely changed the standard of heavyweight striking.

01:46:56.000 And I'm not exaggerating.

01:46:57.000 I watched it three times.

01:46:59.000 I watched it today, in fact.

01:47:01.000 I watched it in the gym today while I was working out.

01:47:03.000 So better than in terms of movement, in terms of he's the best moving heavyweight?

01:47:09.000 There's no question he is the best moving heavyweight I've ever seen.

01:47:13.000 No question.

01:47:15.000 The best moving.

01:47:16.000 It doesn't mean that, like, this is the way he fights.

01:47:19.000 Like, look at how he, like, every time Derek Lewis goes to set up to move towards him, Cyril Ghosn is nowhere to be found.

01:47:27.000 He lit Derek Lewis up, man.

01:47:29.000 And every time Derek Lewis comes to him, like, look at that jab.

01:47:33.000 I mean, his movement in terms of closing the distance is spectacular.

01:47:37.000 Look at that front-leg front kick to the body. 0.94

01:47:39.000 And I was severely impressed.

01:47:42.000 I mean, he had beaten a lot of really good guys.

01:47:45.000 Like, he beat Jairzinho Rosenstreich.

01:47:47.000 He beat Junior Dos Santos, whose best days are behind him.

01:47:51.000 But, you know, he's beaten some very, very good fighters.

01:47:54.000 But to watch the way he beat...

01:47:57.000 Derek Lewis, who's a legit one-punch knockout threat, and the technical acumen that he showed, the skill, the technique, the footwork, the movement, the understanding of distance, the ability to control everything that happened inside the octagon was spectacular.

01:48:14.000 That's art.

01:48:15.000 It changed my opinion of how a fight with him and Francis Ngannou would go down.

01:48:20.000 At first, my thought is that Francis Ngannou has the nuclear option with everybody. 0.99

01:48:24.000 He has such fucking power. 0.99

01:48:26.000 So does Derek Lewis. 1.00

01:48:28.000 So does Derek Lewis.

01:48:29.000 But Francis Ngannou...

01:48:31.000 He has the hydrogen bomb.

01:48:33.000 Derek Lewis has the atomic.

01:48:34.000 Well, they both have crazy one-punch power.

01:48:37.000 But... 0.99

01:48:38.000 When you watch Cyril Gaon, you go, man, how the fuck does anybody... 0.99

01:48:44.000 It's like Francis has excellent technique. 1.00

01:48:48.000 Francis has ridiculous power.

01:48:50.000 But he doesn't have the movement that Gaon has.

01:48:53.000 The question is, can Francis deal with the movement and maybe threaten him in a way that Derek Lewis didn't figure out how to?

01:49:01.000 And that's what makes the fight so interesting.

01:49:03.000 But the way that guy moves...

01:49:06.000 It's something special, man.

01:49:08.000 You only saw little highlights of it there, but I've watched it pretty carefully in the three times that I've watched it.

01:49:14.000 I can't think of a single heavyweight that I've ever seen move like that.

01:49:19.000 And there's no flaws in his clinch game.

01:49:21.000 He understands how to avoid the takedown.

01:49:25.000 He understands pummeling.

01:49:26.000 He understands distance and where he's safe, where he's not safe, and what to look for when he's pulling out of the clinch to not get hit.

01:49:33.000 It's really amazing, man. 0.91

01:49:35.000 He's on a fucking real high level, and he's undefeated. 0.95

01:49:39.000 So I think he's 9-0 now, or 10-0. 0.96

01:49:43.000 So he's going to get a title shot?

01:49:44.000 Well, he's the interim heavyweight champion now.

01:49:46.000 Oh, that was for the heavyweight champion.

01:49:48.000 Which is weird, right? 0.99

01:49:49.000 It's like Ngannou just won the fucking title. 0.99

01:49:51.000 He's not injured. 0.95

01:49:52.000 It's just like the UFC and Ngannou were at some sort of a weird impasse, so they decided to make an interim title, which brings up all sorts of ethical discussions about what is an interim title, when is it If the organization could just decide,

01:50:11.000 oh, the negotiations aren't going so well, we're just going to have an interim title.

01:50:15.000 How many months after?

01:50:16.000 When did he fight Stipe?

01:50:20.000 When did Francis Ngannou fight Stipe?

01:50:22.000 Let's take a guess.

01:50:22.000 That's 2020. Was it?

01:50:24.000 I think so.

01:50:25.000 It was definitely during the pandemic because it was at the...

01:50:29.000 I think it was November or something like that.

01:50:30.000 It was at the Apex Center.

01:50:32.000 March 27th.

01:50:33.000 Of 2021?

01:50:34.000 Yes.

01:50:35.000 Yeah.

01:50:37.000 It feels like way longer ago.

01:50:39.000 Five months ago.

01:50:40.000 Yeah, five.

01:50:41.000 Okay, five is longer.

01:50:42.000 That's kind of crazy.

01:50:44.000 Yeah.

01:50:45.000 You know, like, how much time do you give a guy before, you know, he defends his title?

01:50:49.000 The difference in boxing is so different.

01:50:51.000 Like, boxers go the long stretch, and boxers enter into negotiations and negotiate.

01:50:57.000 Like, Caleb Plant and Canelo Alvarez, they've been Dancing back and forth as to whether or not they're supposed to fight and the negotiations fall apart and they come back together again and now they're supposedly in negotiations again for November.

01:51:08.000 You know, boxing is so different.

01:51:10.000 Like, the boxers have more control over what happens because it's basically just boxing.

01:51:17.000 The UFC is...

01:51:20.000 A star in and of itself, like the organization is a star and to be the UFC heavyweight champion is a huge thing, but ultimately you're a champion in the UFC, which is huge.

01:51:32.000 It's not the same as like a boxer.

01:51:34.000 Like Terrence Crawford is a great example, right?

01:51:37.000 He's a world champion boxer and people want to see Terrence Crawford fight. 0.99

01:51:41.000 They don't give a fuck if he's fighting for Bob Arum or if he's fighting for Golden Boy or that doesn't mean jack shit. 0.98

01:51:48.000 Wait, the UFC, I mean, in some sense, also has a little bit of that. 0.98

01:51:52.000 In some sense, nobody cares if Ngannou is a champ or not or interim championship.

01:51:58.000 They just want to see the fight, too.

01:52:00.000 Oh, yeah.

01:52:01.000 If Ngannou wasn't the champ, if no one was the champ, if they stripped both of them and Ngannou fought Gan for five rounds, it would be...

01:52:10.000 I don't know about that.

01:52:11.000 There's still something nice, I guess, to winning the championship. 1.00

01:52:13.000 Fuck yeah, when they strap that belt around you. 1.00

01:52:16.000 It's giant. 1.00

01:52:17.000 The champ is the champ, but it's just weird.

01:52:21.000 The interim thing is weird.

01:52:22.000 I think interims should really only be when a guy can't defend because he's badly injured.

01:52:27.000 And Gano's not injured, so it's just weird.

01:52:29.000 Or maybe like three years off or something like that.

01:52:31.000 But that's the difference between, you know, like, there's no rules as to what they can and can't do.

01:52:37.000 They can kind of, like, make their own rules.

01:52:39.000 It's whatever the fans will put up with.

01:52:41.000 Right.

01:52:42.000 Exactly.

01:52:43.000 Which is kind of the honest way to do it, I guess.

01:52:45.000 Because then the fans will complain.

01:52:49.000 Will they, though?

01:52:50.000 You keep giving them good fights every weekend?

01:52:51.000 Exactly.

01:52:52.000 How much will they really complain?

01:52:53.000 And the fans kind of love complaining anyway.

01:52:54.000 And the fighter only has a, you know, a small window of opportunity.

01:52:59.000 Yeah.

01:53:00.000 But I don't know what the deal was.

01:53:01.000 I mean, I'm not privy to the negotiations.

01:53:04.000 But you're saying one of the best moving heavyweights.

01:53:07.000 No, no, the best.

01:53:09.000 He's the best.

01:53:10.000 Cyril Ghosn is the best moving heavyweight I've ever seen.

01:53:13.000 I've never seen a heavyweight move like him. 0.96

01:53:15.000 It's just his fucking understanding of distance and his use of feints and every time Derek tried to swing at him, he was nowhere to be found. 0.98

01:53:24.000 He was whoop, just slid out and then he's right back in on him. 0.99

01:53:27.000 He wasn't running.

01:53:29.000 Like he would get back out and then go right back in his face.

01:53:32.000 That's like my favorite, probably my favorite part of mixed martial arts is people that move in interesting ways, move well in interesting ways.

01:53:39.000 I was thinking, you know who Lionel Messi is by any chance?

01:53:43.000 Sure.

01:53:43.000 So the soccer player, he's my favorite.

01:53:47.000 Talking about things that divide the populace with the vaccines, it's probably Messi versus Cristiano Ronaldo, who's the greatest player of all time or currently playing.

01:53:59.000 That divides people too.

01:54:00.000 What is the division?

01:54:02.000 They're just both incredible.

01:54:04.000 But what is it like, who's better, LeBron or Michael Jordan?

01:54:08.000 Is it like that kind of thing?

01:54:09.000 People get very passionate about this.

01:54:11.000 They get extremely passionate.

01:54:13.000 Who do you think is better?

01:54:15.000 Messi by far.

01:54:16.000 Ah, look at you!

01:54:18.000 I don't care.

01:54:19.000 By far.

01:54:20.000 How so?

01:54:22.000 So it has to do with movement.

01:54:24.000 And it has to do with where you put priorities.

01:54:27.000 So the other people in the running for greatest ever, and I don't even think Ronaldo's in the top five, is Maradona, Pele.

01:54:36.000 Is this a shots fired moment right here?

01:54:39.000 That was, for sure.

01:54:40.000 Was that shots fired?

01:54:41.000 That was, yeah.

01:54:42.000 I mean, I'm out of the loop when it comes to soccer, but I feel like you just made some...

01:54:45.000 I think the Brazilian- Bold statements.

01:54:47.000 Yeah, I think the Brazilian Ronaldo is better than Cristiano.

01:54:49.000 So Cristiano is much better looking.

01:54:52.000 He's much harder working.

01:54:54.000 He's an incredible soccer player.

01:54:55.000 One of the greatest ever, just not in the top five for me.

01:54:58.000 Messi moves like nothing I have ever seen.

01:55:02.000 And this is, I think a lot of people agree with this.

01:55:04.000 This is moments of genius unlike anybody else.

01:55:07.000 This everybody agrees on.

01:55:08.000 And the question is, how much do you value moments of genius in terms of movement? 0.96

01:55:14.000 Just like how many things you're able to create, they're like, what the fuck did I just watch? 0.85

01:55:19.000 Right, right. 0.73

01:55:20.000 I value that above all else.

01:55:23.000 Now, one of the...

01:55:24.000 The reasons why until like a month ago, people still said Messi might not be the greatest ever is because he's never taken his national team, Argentina, to a major, like a World Cup win or the Copa America, like the major international win.

01:55:40.000 He's always, he's taken him to the final a bunch of times, but never won.

01:55:43.000 And so that has to, that's like LeBron questions.

01:55:47.000 How many times, if ever, did you take your team, especially when the team is not great, did you make them step up to win the championship?

01:55:55.000 Right.

01:55:55.000 And until, so he won the South American Championship, which is a huge championship for the first time with Argentina last month, which solidified him as the greatest.

01:56:05.000 Anyway, I'm making some enemies now.

01:56:08.000 But the main point is the movement.

01:56:10.000 I think I want to agree.

01:56:13.000 When you watch him, it's art.

01:56:18.000 And I was thinking in the same way, who is that?

01:56:22.000 Like if you didn't see the face or the uniform, if you just saw the silhouette, you can tell it's messy.

01:56:28.000 And I was thinking, who is that for MMA? Mighty Mouse.

01:56:34.000 Mighty Mouse in his prime is the greatest I've ever seen.

01:56:36.000 See, I was thinking Anderson Silva.

01:56:38.000 Nah, well Anderson Silva was fantastic in his prime, no doubt about it.

01:56:43.000 But Mighty Mouse, the only problem with Mighty Mouse is that he's in a weight class that's very small.

01:56:48.000 There's not a lot of guys that weigh 125 pounds, so there's not the same talent pool that Anderson Silva dealt with.

01:56:54.000 Anderson Silva dealt with much more danger in terms of one-punch strikers.

01:57:01.000 But, you know, the argument could be made that Anderson Silva, when he was at the top, is the greatest of all time.

01:57:07.000 And then the argument could be made that Mighty Mouse is the greatest of all time.

01:57:11.000 Mighty Mouse just destroyed people and destroyed people in a way like they looked overwhelmed and confused, like they couldn't touch him.

01:57:19.000 His movement and his ability to mix the wrestling and the striking and the submissions together flawlessly and seamlessly was incredible.

01:57:31.000 I feel like fighters have these bursts of time that may last three years, five years, seven years, whatever it is, when they're able to maintain the championship-level RPMs.

01:57:45.000 And you got to judge them inside that time.

01:57:47.000 And it's very subjective, obviously, whether it's Anderson or whether it's Jon Jones or whether it's Khabib Nurmagomedov is a very, very good candidate because, in my opinion, Khabib is probably the best candidate because Khabib, not only did he not lose a fight,

01:58:03.000 he barely lost a round.

01:58:10.000 We're good to go.

01:58:24.000 Yeah, he's had some rough losses, but Michael Johnson knocked out Dustin Poirier with one punch. 0.99

01:58:30.000 Michael Johnson was a fucking dangerous, dangerous man, and still is. 0.98

01:58:34.000 And he tagged Khabib. 0.99

01:58:35.000 It probably had Khabib in the most trouble ever in a fight.

01:58:38.000 He had him wobbled.

01:58:39.000 But Khabib ultimately won that fight and destroyed him.

01:58:41.000 I mean, was pounding on him, was telling him, quit now, quit now, you know I deserve title shot, beating the shit out of him, and then put him in a Kimura and tapped him.

01:58:49.000 But it's arguable that Khabib's the greatest of all time. 0.56

01:58:53.000 It's arguable that Mighty Mouse is.

01:58:56.000 It's a debate.

01:58:57.000 It's a lively debate.

01:58:58.000 But in terms of the uniqueness of movement...

01:59:00.000 Mighty Mouse.

01:59:02.000 Because I want to combine that.

01:59:04.000 This is dangerous.

01:59:07.000 When McGregor knocked out Aldo.

01:59:10.000 Jose Aldo, yeah.

01:59:12.000 He deserves a lot of...

01:59:15.000 That's the same as Messi.

01:59:18.000 Arguably at the peak of their performing career, Aldo be able to just make them look like they're a beginner for a brief moment.

01:59:30.000 That's...

01:59:31.000 I don't know.

01:59:31.000 That's worth something.

01:59:33.000 That's a moment of magic.

01:59:34.000 It was a moment of magic, for sure.

01:59:36.000 You know, and the question with Conor after that fight, there's so much that leads...

01:59:44.000 There's so much that has to... 0.57

01:59:49.000 It has to be in motion for you to be a Conor McGregor and for you to be a Conor McGregor that has the kind of balls to tear up Jose Aldo's picture and steal his belt and go on this press conference tour with him where you're going all over the world and you're talking crazy shit and climbing inside of Aldo's head to the point where the one moment where they close the octagon door and like, 0.96

02:00:10.000 oh my god, it's real. 0.94

02:00:12.000 Conor was elevated by that moment and Aldo seemed like he was dwarfed by the moment.

02:00:19.000 The moment crushed him.

02:00:20.000 By the way, Conor last year, highest paid athlete, Messi second.

02:00:25.000 Yeah, but does it count because Conor is highest paid because he made a bunch of money off of whiskey?

02:00:29.000 Yeah.

02:00:30.000 He's the highest paid athlete.

02:00:32.000 He is an athlete.

02:00:34.000 And then Messi is straight up for performance.

02:00:37.000 Just soccer.

02:00:37.000 They get paid a lot in soccer.

02:00:40.000 I can only imagine.

02:00:41.000 A lot of people get paid over $100 million per year.

02:00:44.000 $153 million last year, it says.

02:00:46.000 Woo! 0.99

02:00:47.000 Woo! 0.99

02:00:50.000 Woo! 0.99

02:00:50.000 It's really heartbreaking. 0.99

02:00:52.000 He just got transferred from the team he's been with for 20, 21 years in Barcelona.

02:00:57.000 He got transferred to Paris.

02:00:59.000 Why?

02:01:00.000 There's a lot of people criticizing the whole machine of modern soccer.

02:01:04.000 He wanted to stay.

02:01:06.000 I think he wanted to...

02:01:08.000 He said he would accept a half, like 50% cut.

02:01:12.000 You know, only get paid half.

02:01:14.000 He doesn't care.

02:01:15.000 He wanted to stay with the team.

02:01:17.000 But I think there's something about just drama and administration.

02:01:20.000 I wasn't following it, but they're saying it's modern soccer. 0.99

02:01:23.000 They don't give a shit about, like... 0.99

02:01:26.000 They don't give away shit about legacy and the players. 0.99

02:01:30.000 There's a machine. 0.98

02:01:31.000 That's a little bit probably why they couldn't afford them anymore.

02:01:33.000 The club's debt is at $1.6 billion.

02:01:36.000 Whoa! 0.71

02:01:37.000 I don't even know how that works.

02:01:38.000 How does that work?

02:01:41.000 That seems like someone's done a really bad job accounting.

02:01:44.000 But he is at the peak.

02:01:47.000 He's been winning player of the year.

02:01:50.000 Even after 20 years, he's still at the peak of his performance.

02:01:54.000 It's kind of like the Tom Brady from Patriots to Tampa Bay.

02:01:59.000 The funny thing, he wins the Super Bowl again.

02:02:01.000 I think it's the same kind of thing, but it's just heartbreaking because he, unlike a lot of players, he's been for the same team.

02:02:08.000 There's something to that loyalty that's valuable.

02:02:10.000 It's always nice in any sport to see an athlete stay with the same people.

02:02:14.000 McGregor's kind of like that, right?

02:02:16.000 Stay with the same people.

02:02:17.000 So's Khabib.

02:02:18.000 Yeah, Khabib. 0.99

02:02:20.000 Khabib is that through and through.

02:02:22.000 Did you see that thing with Ronaldo where they put a Coca-Cola in front of him and he pushed it aside and he picked up a bottle of water and said, Agua.

02:02:30.000 And like he only drinks water?

02:02:32.000 Because apparently he's like meticulous about his diet and what goes into his body.

02:02:36.000 And Coca-Cola's sales tanked.

02:02:40.000 Their stock market price tanked.

02:02:43.000 It cost them like, I'm sure they bounce back, but it cost their market share something like a billion dollars.

02:02:49.000 Just him doing that.

02:02:50.000 Four billion.

02:02:51.000 Four billion?

02:02:54.000 Four billion by saying water.

02:02:56.000 I like water.

02:02:57.000 I'm drinking water.

02:02:58.000 The reach of soccer in the world, like global influence, is huge.

02:03:01.000 Especially when you have these icons.

02:03:03.000 And he is, unlike Messi, I think Messi hides himself much more.

02:03:08.000 He has a private life.

02:03:10.000 He's really happy with kids.

02:03:11.000 Ronaldo's a baller, right?

02:03:12.000 No, a baller in the PG way.

02:03:17.000 He doesn't do the...

02:03:19.000 He's a wholesome baller.

02:03:21.000 Oh, wholesome baller.

02:03:22.000 He's not doing coke and...

02:03:24.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:03:24.000 So that's Diego Maradona, who's Argentina.

02:03:29.000 I think there's coke, and that was back when coke wasn't cool.

02:03:33.000 I think there's a lot of drugs.

02:03:35.000 The personality is a...

02:03:36.000 Is he still alive?

02:03:37.000 He's still alive.

02:03:38.000 He still has opinions.

02:03:40.000 So...

02:03:43.000 Meaning he has a voice in Argentina and talks about Messi and so on.

02:03:49.000 Lionel Messi is Argentinian and Diego Mardona is Argentinian.

02:03:54.000 And just the way Messi moves has some of the elements that Mardona does too.

02:04:00.000 There's these moments of genius.

02:04:03.000 Mardona has that famous hand of God goal in the World Cup.

02:04:08.000 He passed away, by the way.

02:04:09.000 He did?

02:04:10.000 I thought I heard it.

02:04:12.000 Yeah, in November.

02:04:14.000 In November, okay.

02:04:15.000 Sorry to hear that.

02:04:16.000 Heart attack?

02:04:17.000 How old was he?

02:04:19.000 60. Down out, down out.

02:04:21.000 Following brain surgery.

02:04:22.000 Oh, following brain surgery?

02:04:24.000 Oh, Jesus.

02:04:25.000 He lived his life fully.

02:04:27.000 Yeah.

02:04:27.000 But he had the hand of God goal where the ref didn't notice it, but he knocked the ball into goal with his hand.

02:04:35.000 But he made it look like it's a header.

02:04:38.000 Oh, no.

02:04:39.000 You gotta win by any means necessary, Joe.

02:04:41.000 And they don't review that?

02:04:43.000 Not in the 70s or whatever it was.

02:04:45.000 Yeah, I told you.

02:04:46.000 It was back when Coke wasn't cool.

02:04:48.000 It was in the 70s.

02:04:49.000 No, it wasn't in the 70s.

02:04:51.000 It might have been 90s.

02:04:52.000 Okay, sorry.

02:04:53.000 70s?

02:04:54.000 Diego Armando Maradona.

02:04:55.000 60s, 60s.

02:04:56.000 How could he be playing in the 70s?

02:04:58.000 I feel like I'm still 15. Yeah, that's true.

02:05:01.000 I'm still stuck in the...

02:05:03.000 86. Are you playing 86 with that?

02:05:07.000 But also 90 and I think also after that.

02:05:12.000 Yeah.

02:05:13.000 One of the greatest ever.

02:05:15.000 Hand of God.

02:05:17.000 Is that it?

02:05:18.000 Is that it?

02:05:19.000 Yep.

02:05:21.000 Unforgettable England moments.

02:05:23.000 Yeah, celebrating it.

02:05:24.000 He also has, him and Messi both have these goals.

02:05:27.000 Why isn't it?

02:05:28.000 You couldn't even see it from that video.

02:05:30.000 This guy's complaining that he hit it with his hand, right?

02:05:33.000 Hand of God, goal, yeah.

02:05:36.000 Let's see.

02:05:39.000 There's a kick.

02:05:42.000 Hmm.

02:05:43.000 See?

02:05:44.000 So how would you judge that on that?

02:05:45.000 No, I think they zoom in and it's obvious it's a hand.

02:05:49.000 Can you zoom in?

02:05:50.000 Can I? Enhance.

02:05:51.000 Here's the enhance they did at the time.

02:05:53.000 Do they have enhance?

02:05:55.000 That was it.

02:05:56.000 Oh, let me see that again.

02:05:59.000 It's been absolutely proven that he uses hands?

02:06:02.000 But there's no review.

02:06:03.000 Here we go.

02:06:04.000 Let's watch.

02:06:09.000 There's the hand.

02:06:11.000 It might even be like forearm.

02:06:12.000 Anything below your elbow is kind of his hand.

02:06:15.000 He definitely touched his arm.

02:06:18.000 They counted that?

02:06:20.000 Yep.

02:06:21.000 Hand of God.

02:06:22.000 He also has the famous, people really love that, him and Messi.

02:06:27.000 But he has a really famous one where he runs from the other side and dribbles past everybody else and scores the goal.

02:06:33.000 That's really difficult to do at the highest level of competition.

02:06:36.000 The amount of gambling on soccer must be insane, right?

02:06:40.000 Is it legal gambling?

02:06:42.000 Do they have a lot of legal gambling on it?

02:06:47.000 I mean, it's almost all legal now to an extent.

02:06:51.000 Without going deep back into Google search, I don't think it's been deeply illegal in Europe.

02:06:57.000 Well, they have legalized sports betting in New York now, right?

02:07:03.000 Not in...

02:07:04.000 I heard someone say that the other day, and I don't know if it's in New York yet.

02:07:08.000 New Jersey, yes.

02:07:09.000 It's coming.

02:07:10.000 Pennsylvania, yes.

02:07:11.000 I think they're passing a law.

02:07:14.000 I think they're making...

02:07:15.000 I remember reading an article about it.

02:07:19.000 They're planning on making sports betting legal in New York.

02:07:24.000 When I type it in, it says the sports betting legal in New York.

02:07:26.000 The only way to legally place a sports wager in New York is to go to one of the four full-service commercial upstate casinos operated by an upstate Indian nation and place an in-person bet. 0.51

02:07:37.000 Is it coming to New York?

02:07:39.000 So they're seeking, like, the new thing that's happening is online betting because it's being done in an app.

02:07:44.000 That's what's happening everywhere.

02:07:46.000 So that's what's going to happen?

02:07:47.000 I think they're trying to get it passed.

02:07:48.000 I don't think it's in New York yet, yeah.

02:07:50.000 Interesting.

02:07:51.000 Interesting.

02:07:52.000 But they have past weed, I read, and it's still not, you can't buy it yet.

02:07:56.000 But it's just decriminalized.

02:07:58.000 Is that what it is?

02:07:59.000 Yeah.

02:08:00.000 But you can buy it in New Jersey.

02:08:02.000 So you can cross the bridge and turn the app on and make your bet and then go back home, which people do all the time.

02:08:07.000 Oh, that's what you can do.

02:08:08.000 Yeah.

02:08:09.000 You have to be GPS located where...

02:08:11.000 Is poker legal now?

02:08:14.000 Playing poker?

02:08:15.000 Online poker?

02:08:16.000 That's the same sort of thing.

02:08:17.000 Like, you could always play.

02:08:18.000 It's just a matter of like, could you play for money?

02:08:21.000 After it became illegal, they started playing for prizes and you could play for free.

02:08:25.000 Ari used to play poker professionally to supplement his comedy career.

02:08:30.000 He was making more money playing poker than he was doing stand-up.

02:08:33.000 I like those two degenerate communities.

02:08:36.000 He brings the best of both.

02:08:39.000 Well, he's a good poker player.

02:08:40.000 He is?

02:08:40.000 Yeah, Ari can play.

02:08:42.000 He's smart.

02:08:42.000 He knows how to play the game and he plays it prudently.

02:08:47.000 He doesn't take stupid bets. 0.99

02:08:49.000 He's smart. 1.00

02:08:50.000 Alright, so I was looking into now.

02:08:52.000 In the 2022 year, it's supposed to be allowed in New York.

02:08:56.000 So it's not yet, but the plan is in place.

02:08:59.000 Okay, that's what it is.

02:08:59.000 So that's sports betting, right?

02:09:01.000 They're going to have legalized bookies in New York.

02:09:05.000 That's awesome. 0.98

02:09:06.000 You should be able to bet on whatever the fuck you want. 1.00

02:09:08.000 The idea that you're going to protect people from their own impulses to bet is so stupid. 1.00

02:09:15.000 It's like, we have Vegas. 1.00

02:09:17.000 That's exciting.

02:09:18.000 What are you going to do?

02:09:19.000 I was surprised that...

02:09:21.000 Have you watched the Olympics at all?

02:09:23.000 No, I did not.

02:09:24.000 It's kind of interesting that it seemed not...

02:09:27.000 I still watch the wrestling and the Judo and some other stuff.

02:09:30.000 Did you see Gable with the last second victory for the gold medal?

02:09:34.000 Yeah.

02:09:35.000 Incredible.

02:09:36.000 Yeah.

02:09:36.000 Incredible.

02:09:36.000 Named after Dan Gable.

02:09:37.000 I know!

02:09:38.000 It was amazing!

02:09:39.000 You ever see photos of him training or video of him training with Brock Lesnar a few years ago? 0.98

02:09:44.000 Oh shit. 0.84

02:09:45.000 Brock Lesnar when he was... 1.00

02:09:46.000 I think he was thinking about coming back.

02:09:48.000 He's still got, oh sorry, which I should mention, so he has two years of NCAA, so Gable has a choice now, because I think he's interested in W, like he's interested into that.

02:10:02.000 WWE? WWE. Yeah, he's also interested in the UFC. In the UFC, but then he can also go back to college and wait for the Olympics again, which is in only three years.

02:10:13.000 So he can go back to school, dominate NCAA, get a couple titles if he can.

02:10:17.000 What do you think about that?

02:10:20.000 Get paid!

02:10:21.000 Let's go!

02:10:22.000 They can get paid now.

02:10:24.000 What do you mean?

02:10:25.000 As of last month, college athletes can get paid.

02:10:29.000 Right, but can he get paid like a WWE? He can get paid paid.

02:10:32.000 Paid, paid, paid?

02:10:33.000 Whoever wants to sign him can pay him.

02:10:35.000 He can pay any contract.

02:10:37.000 So a college can sign him?

02:10:39.000 It's not the college paying him, it's sponsors.

02:10:41.000 It's a name and likeness deal.

02:10:42.000 Oh, so all the stuff that used to get them in trouble in the past is now legal.

02:10:48.000 Some players have gotten million dollar deals already.

02:10:50.000 Nice.

02:10:51.000 High school kids.

02:10:52.000 Now, ooh, wow, how wild is that? 0.99

02:10:54.000 That changed the whole fucking game, huh? 0.99

02:10:56.000 But the crazy thing is the university is still making fucking billions and they're not making shit from that, you know? 0.99

02:11:02.000 Like, they're generating massive amounts of money for the universities. 0.98

02:11:05.000 And the universities is...

02:11:07.000 they're not distributing any of it to the kids.

02:11:10.000 Yeah, that's crazy. 1.00

02:11:10.000 That's fucked. 1.00

02:11:11.000 But that's my argument against the Olympics. 1.00

02:11:13.000 Oh, that they're not making enough money?

02:11:15.000 See, I think money is good, but it can get in the way of the purity of the sport.

02:11:21.000 Sure, then let's have no one make money then. 1.00

02:11:24.000 Including NBC. Go fuck yourself. 1.00

02:11:28.000 If you want to be pure, let's be pure all the way. 1.00

02:11:31.000 No advertisement, let's keep the whole thing pure, and make it so that NBC and whoever the fuck airs the Olympics, they're only doing it for the purity of the experience of competition.

02:11:42.000 We will not make any money off the proceeds of any of this.

02:11:47.000 And whatever money is generated at all, we'll donate to charity.

02:11:50.000 So first of all, I came on the Joe Rogan Experience to pitch communism to the people.

02:11:55.000 That's why I'm here.

02:11:58.000 Aren't a lot of the sports, though, no one would be watching now?

02:12:01.000 They're not very high-viewed sports, most of the sports in the Olympics.

02:12:04.000 Unless they're Olympics.

02:12:05.000 Unless they're on, in this case.

02:12:06.000 They got a shot put. 1.00

02:12:07.000 Who's lining up to see the fucking shot put? 0.99

02:12:09.000 Oh, did you throw the metal ball really far? 1.00

02:12:12.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:12:12.000 Nobody gives a shit. 0.99

02:12:15.000 You just made some enemies. 0.99

02:12:16.000 This is probably...

02:12:17.000 Did you throw the hammer?

02:12:22.000 Did you really?

02:12:23.000 Okay, but look at basketball.

02:12:25.000 Did you throw that orange ball in the little net?

02:12:27.000 Hey, stop.

02:12:28.000 People are trying to stop you from throwing it.

02:12:30.000 There's defense.

02:12:31.000 There's strategy involved.

02:12:32.000 It's team sport.

02:12:32.000 All right.

02:12:32.000 Listen to this son of a bitch from Russia.

02:12:34.000 Come over and talk shit about basketball. 1.00

02:12:35.000 What about golf? 0.99

02:12:35.000 Did you hit? 0.99

02:12:36.000 Is that an Olympics?

02:12:37.000 Yeah, it was.

02:12:38.000 Golf?

02:12:38.000 Huh?

02:12:39.000 Oh, that's ridiculous.

02:12:39.000 Why isn't a pool in the Olympics then?

02:12:41.000 I think I make it exciting.

02:12:44.000 It only became exciting because the last 2016 they had like a run and they're like, well this is good TV. So they put it on again.

02:12:50.000 Did you see the karate guy get kicked in the face and win the gold medal because he got knocked out?

02:12:54.000 The other guy hit him too hard?

02:12:56.000 I can't watch the karate or the...

02:12:58.000 It doesn't look like fighting.

02:13:01.000 It doesn't look like fighting.

02:13:03.000 It's scoring points.

02:13:04.000 Scoring points, this is a discussion that I've had with people before.

02:13:08.000 That style of karate, it's a very useful tool to know.

02:13:14.000 There's guys like Raymond Daniels who've used that really effectively in kickboxing.

02:13:19.000 There's guys like Michael Venom Page who uses it really effectively in MMA. There's an ability To leap in and catch you with things that most guys do not have.

02:13:31.000 When you've got a guy who's elite at that, but then learns the other things, that's a giant bridge to cross that a lot of folks can't...

02:13:39.000 They don't know what to do with a person like that.

02:13:42.000 But if you had to choose, would you take, like, Sadulayev, the Russian tank, The gold medalist in freestyle wrestling or the gold medalist in karate?

02:13:53.000 I've always said that wrestling is the cornerstone of mixed martial arts.

02:13:58.000 It's the foundation.

02:14:00.000 Because with the great wrestlers, the great wrestlers can dictate where the fight takes place.

02:14:05.000 Whether it's Khabib, whether it's Randy Couture.

02:14:08.000 Go down the list.

02:14:10.000 There's been a ton of great wrestlers.

02:14:13.000 Daniel Cormier, Jon Jones, a lot of great wrestlers have become elite mixed martial arts fighters.

02:14:19.000 And they have a massive advantage.

02:14:21.000 If they have a dominance in wrestling, they have ability to dictate where the fight takes place.

02:14:29.000 Where it takes place standing up or on the ground.

02:14:31.000 Chuck Liddell would use his wrestling the opposite way.

02:14:34.000 He was a very good wrestler, but he would use his wrestling to make you stand with him.

02:14:39.000 And that advantage, the advantage of being the better wrestler is...

02:14:43.000 I think it's the foundation.

02:14:44.000 I think it's the most important skill set.

02:14:48.000 But there's also something about their hips or something like that that allows them to learn how to hit hard quickly.

02:14:53.000 Some of them.

02:14:54.000 Some of them.

02:14:54.000 Some of them like...

02:14:57.000 You know, there's guys that just like...

02:14:59.000 Talking about Ben Askren?

02:15:00.000 Yeah, I didn't want to say his name.

02:15:02.000 So he's going to come down to Austin, we're going to hang out.

02:15:04.000 I was trying to be nice.

02:15:05.000 Ben never figured out a way to use it in striking, but he was really good with wrestling.

02:15:11.000 But he has like a slow twitch...

02:15:14.000 Body, you know?

02:15:16.000 I mean, he can go for days with wrestling.

02:15:18.000 He was really creative in his transitions and his takedowns, the way he would chain takedown attempts.

02:15:25.000 But he just never developed the kind of pop that some wrestlers did.

02:15:30.000 Yeah, he had a different style, for sure.

02:15:31.000 For sure.

02:15:32.000 By the way, I don't know if you saw, Kyle Dake ended up getting bronze.

02:15:36.000 He lost the match 11-0.

02:15:41.000 He dominated everybody else.

02:15:43.000 He lost the match somewhere along the way 11-0 to somebody from the Eastern Bloc.

02:15:49.000 And I've been too nervous to watch it, because I can't imagine him losing to anybody.

02:15:55.000 11-0 is crazy.

02:15:56.000 Yeah, 11-0, like 13-0, something like that.

02:15:59.000 Do they have a tech fall in the Olympics?

02:16:01.000 Yeah, they do.

02:16:02.000 Yeah.

02:16:03.000 And so, yeah, so he came back to win bronze.

02:16:08.000 David Taylor, who...

02:16:09.000 Imagine how good the guy is who beat him 11-0.

02:16:11.000 A lot of his style match-ups.

02:16:14.000 Yeah, or maybe.

02:16:16.000 This is a name for you to read.

02:16:18.000 Oh, here we go.

02:16:20.000 Oh my god.

02:16:21.000 Good luck with that.

02:16:24.000 Magomed Khabib Kadimagomedov.

02:16:32.000 Magomed Khabib Kadimagomedov.

02:16:36.000 That's like every great Dagestan fighter rolled into two names.

02:16:40.000 Put that name up there again.

02:16:41.000 I want to one day get that in my vocabulary.

02:16:45.000 Magomed Khabib Kadamagomedov. 1.00

02:16:49.000 Whoa, what a fucking name. 1.00

02:16:50.000 That's a long-ass name. 1.00

02:16:52.000 I feel like you just repeat that over and over and just meditate.

02:16:54.000 Yeah, you'd have to.

02:16:55.000 Yeah, like...

02:16:56.000 But with that, that's the Russian version.

02:17:01.000 The really good one is Kyle Snyder versus Satoly of the Russian tank.

02:17:07.000 So they were one-on-one.

02:17:10.000 They're basically probably two of the greatest wrestlers ever out of the heavies.

02:17:16.000 And they just went to war, and this time the Russian won.

02:17:20.000 So I think it's two and one.

02:17:21.000 And that's an interesting choice there.

02:17:23.000 They all just won all of the world championships between the two of them.

02:17:28.000 And Olympics, Kyle was in a different weight class, a higher weight class in the previous Olympics.

02:17:34.000 So they both won gold in the previous one.

02:17:36.000 It's so interesting, but they're both choosing to stay in wrestling.

02:17:39.000 And it's like you could tell both of them that they went to MMA, they would just destroy.

02:17:44.000 Well, Jordan Burrows is another example, right?

02:17:46.000 He chose to stay in wrestling, and he's actually made a very good living in wrestling.

02:17:50.000 You know, and one of the things is through Flow Grappling and through a lot of these other kind of streaming organizations, guys can make money.

02:17:59.000 Competing in wrestling.

02:18:00.000 Yeah.

02:18:01.000 Which is very nice.

02:18:03.000 Because of Donohar, because of Flo Grappling coming here, Austin might become the capital of martial arts in the United States.

02:18:09.000 That's why I'm excited.

02:18:11.000 That's what I'm rooting for.

02:18:13.000 There's so many things happening here.

02:18:13.000 I know, it's crazy.

02:18:14.000 Duncan's moving here.

02:18:15.000 Duncan's moving here.

02:18:16.000 That's when it's going to be the final.

02:18:17.000 Well, I told you offline, Duncan and Joey Diaz.

02:18:21.000 Joey Diaz is the ultimate.

02:18:23.000 That's the ultimate.

02:18:24.000 That's the final jewel in Thanos' golden globe.

02:18:30.000 From Jersey to Austin.

02:18:32.000 And then tech, too.

02:18:34.000 I mean, that's the reason I really came here.

02:18:37.000 I mean, you're part of people that are creating an incredible place in Austin, but also the fact that Elon really believes that this will be the Silicon Valley.

02:18:46.000 All the sort of pursuit of excellence without the...

02:18:49.000 What should I say?

02:18:51.000 The woke and all of that kind of nonsense.

02:18:55.000 For now.

02:18:56.000 The problem with that stuff is it's like COVID. It fucking spreads. 0.99

02:19:01.000 It's dangerous. 0.99

02:19:02.000 And it's a way for people that don't really have good positions to establish...

02:19:08.000 Some control and they can establish influence and they can use it to force their will on folks.

02:19:14.000 There's too many guns here.

02:19:15.000 I think it's going to scare people.

02:19:16.000 I hope so.

02:19:18.000 It's too hot.

02:19:19.000 That's the point.

02:19:20.000 I know a lot of the cool people I know in tech are moving here and a lot of the not so cool people I know are staying in Silicon Valley.

02:19:28.000 Good.

02:19:28.000 Stay there.

02:19:29.000 Stay there and hang on as it sinks into the ocean.

02:19:32.000 And part of it is also, like we said, the weirdos.

02:19:35.000 The not cool people don't want to follow Elon Musk.

02:19:41.000 So they don't get it.

02:19:42.000 The wild people, the crazies, the dreamers, the people that really want to...

02:19:48.000 Pursue excellence and in the full diversity of what that means, real diversity, the full spectrum of diversity, and chase big ideas, big dreams, change the world.

02:19:59.000 Those are the people that are moving here, so it's super exciting.

02:20:01.000 Well, the thing about Austin as opposed to New York City or Los Angeles is that an individual like Elon Musk can move there and then moving there after he does will be considered like following him.

02:20:18.000 Because it's not a big place.

02:20:19.000 It'll be considered copying, or it's a beta move. 0.98

02:20:23.000 Whereas if someone moves to New York City, and then you move to New York City, it's like, God, there's billions of fucking people there. 0.95

02:20:28.000 Or millions of people there, rather. 0.99

02:20:30.000 Who cares?

02:20:31.000 Or in Los Angeles, same thing.

02:20:33.000 Not one person defines a city, but if you're in tech, and when Elon decides to make a move from California to Austin, It's a big deal.

02:20:43.000 And that big deal sort of defines the area.

02:20:45.000 And if you move afterwards, it's kind of like you're copying.

02:20:48.000 And people that have...

02:20:49.000 Maybe they have a little bit of jealousy towards a guy like Elon, or maybe they have some weird animosity towards him, or they don't like...

02:20:57.000 I mean, he's an easy guy.

02:20:59.000 Like, if you were in tech, he's an easy guy to be jealous of.

02:21:02.000 He's running four different businesses simultaneously.

02:21:05.000 He's...

02:21:07.000 Has radical influence on innovation.

02:21:10.000 Radical.

02:21:11.000 In terms of electric cars, in terms of the Boring Company, in terms of SpaceX, the solar division.

02:21:19.000 He's got a lot.

02:21:20.000 And that's not even count Neuralink. 0.99

02:21:23.000 He's got a lot of wild shit that he's doing simultaneously. 0.99

02:21:26.000 So if you're a person who has a big ego and you fancy yourself as like a tech innovator of the highest order and a real wonder kind, and then you see Elon and he moved to Austin, you're like, well, fuck that, I'm staying here. 0.99

02:21:40.000 Stay there with the needles in the human shape. 0.74

02:21:42.000 Yeah, those people are there.

02:21:44.000 I try to resist it.

02:21:46.000 I always will.

02:21:47.000 I'm a huge fan of yours.

02:21:48.000 I'm a huge fan of Elon.

02:21:49.000 I'm a huge fan of a lot of people.

02:21:51.000 And actually, you're one of the people that taught me that.

02:21:53.000 It's good to be a fan of people.

02:21:55.000 Yeah, I love people.

02:21:57.000 And I'm not going to, just because the internet, like, it's the jealousy thing.

02:22:01.000 People criticize you for being a fan, and there's a pressure to sort of be, like, not celebrate others, because that seems like a beta thing or something.

02:22:11.000 Right, exactly.

02:22:12.000 But to me, celebrating others is awesome.

02:22:14.000 Yeah, if I was a tech person, I swear to God I'd be on Elon's nuts. 1.00

02:22:18.000 I'd be like, he's a shit. 1.00

02:22:20.000 Look at him. 1.00

02:22:20.000 Look at him go. 1.00

02:22:21.000 It's awesome.

02:22:22.000 Because not many other people are doing what he's doing.

02:22:24.000 I celebrate everyone that's doing wild stuff that are dreamers.

02:22:29.000 Actually, I mean, he's doing his best.

02:22:31.000 Sander Pachai, I'm a big fan of, who's leading Google.

02:22:33.000 But Google is now a giant monster that's moving slowly.

02:22:36.000 It's very difficult to do, to innovate.

02:22:39.000 Microsoft is actually surprisingly doing a lot of incredible innovative stuff.

02:22:45.000 They've partnered with OpenMan.

02:22:46.000 Dude, I got to pee so bad.

02:22:47.000 Yeah.

02:22:47.000 I drank way too much water.

02:22:49.000 Let's pause this for a moment. 1.00

02:22:50.000 You got a list there of a bunch of shit. 0.99

02:22:52.000 I'm sure you need things to bring up. 0.99

02:22:54.000 How long did we go?

02:22:55.000 It's like 3.40.

02:22:57.000 We're going to pause for a moment, and we'll be right back.

02:22:59.000 Cool.

02:23:02.000 We're back.

02:23:02.000 We're back?

02:23:04.000 Yes.

02:23:04.000 Just for the record, the great Joe Rogan had to go take a piss.

02:23:10.000 Is that amazing?

02:23:11.000 Yeah, that's...

02:23:14.000 I mean, this is what I enjoy about wrestling.

02:23:16.000 What?

02:23:17.000 Is breaking your opponent.

02:23:23.000 Speaking of breaking your opponent, have a glass of those.

02:23:28.000 Is that tequila?

02:23:30.000 No, it's whiskey.

02:23:31.000 Oh, whiskey.

02:23:32.000 What is this called?

02:23:33.000 How do you say this again?

02:23:34.000 The frog?

02:23:35.000 How do you say this? 1.00

02:23:36.000 It's the real shit. 1.00

02:23:39.000 I still have my... 1.00

02:23:41.000 Salute, my friend.

02:23:42.000 Salute.

02:23:46.000 Mmm.

02:23:47.000 I love this stuff.

02:23:48.000 That's good.

02:23:48.000 That's that peaty Irish or scotch whiskey.

02:23:53.000 Lafroig.

02:23:53.000 Yeah, dude.

02:23:54.000 Lafroig.

02:23:55.000 Tequila.

02:23:56.000 I gotta get into that, actually.

02:23:57.000 I have a gluttonous personality. 0.98

02:23:59.000 And whenever I get out of the sauna, when I do sauna, if I do sauna before I come here, I always drink way too much fucking water. 0.99

02:24:05.000 I just... 0.98

02:24:06.000 I overhydrate.

02:24:09.000 And then I cannot control my piss.

02:24:11.000 I do my best to get it out before the podcast.

02:24:13.000 But oftentimes, I'm straining.

02:24:17.000 This is what they usually do after they're broken.

02:24:20.000 Oh, I'm broke.

02:24:21.000 I'm broke.

02:24:22.000 Listen, I'll tell you openly.

02:24:24.000 I could have held it if I knew we were in competition.

02:24:27.000 But my conversation would be better if I didn't have to pee so bad.

02:24:33.000 Oh, I see.

02:24:34.000 I see.

02:24:34.000 You know, one of the things I did realize recently, I got a barrel sauna for outside.

02:24:41.000 It's a small sauna.

02:24:42.000 Those are better.

02:24:44.000 They're better.

02:24:45.000 Is there windows to the outside?

02:24:46.000 Yeah.

02:24:47.000 It's a window to the outside, which is nice.

02:24:49.000 But them little barrel saunas, there's a reason why they make it that. 0.99

02:24:52.000 Like, that fucking contains the heat. 0.99

02:24:54.000 That's nice. 0.99

02:24:55.000 And when you throw the water on the rocks, the fucking steam and the heat in there, it's much more uncomfortable. 0.95

02:25:02.000 It's like physically, like tangibly hotter in this little barrel sauna, which makes sense because my other sauna is big and it takes a long time to heat up. 0.99

02:25:11.000 This motherfucker heats up like full blast, gets to 185 degrees in 20 minutes. 1.00

02:25:16.000 So you did that before the podcast? 0.99

02:25:18.000 Yeah, I did it after workouts.

02:25:20.000 Say, like, I don't know.

02:25:21.000 I don't know what's an important conversation for you.

02:25:24.000 What's the perfect thing before a podcast that you go through?

02:25:27.000 Like, if you were interviewing, I mean, Kanye was probably the most important interview of all time.

02:25:34.000 Really?

02:25:34.000 I'm just kidding.

02:25:36.000 I don't know who somebody you'd be really nervous for.

02:25:39.000 If I'm going to do like...

02:25:41.000 What's the perfect...

02:25:41.000 Quentin Tarantino was a big one for me.

02:25:43.000 That was a great conversation, by the way.

02:25:45.000 Love that guy.

02:25:47.000 He's, in my opinion, he's the best filmmaker of all time.

02:25:51.000 His movies...

02:25:53.000 And this is, again, this is very subjective.

02:25:56.000 But in terms of me, the way I get excited...

02:25:59.000 Like, there's Martin Scorsese movies. 0.98

02:26:01.000 I think Martin Scorsese's fucking amazing. 0.87

02:26:03.000 But there's Martin Scorsese movies I haven't seen. 0.99

02:26:06.000 I've never missed a Quentin Tarantino movie.

02:26:08.000 When his movies come out, it's like there's a feeling that you get when you're about to watch a Tarantino movie. 1.00

02:26:13.000 You know some fucked up shit is going to happen. 0.99

02:26:17.000 That's my kind of movie. 1.00

02:26:18.000 That's what I like.

02:26:19.000 Yeah, I know. 0.99

02:26:20.000 Actually, somebody who was talking about wrestling, somebody texted me, because I mentioned going on the show, and they said, make sure you push back and talk shit to Joe. 0.98

02:26:29.000 I really enjoy that. 0.99

02:26:30.000 And as the example, he mentioned a time where I mentioned that John Wick sucks to you. 0.88

02:26:37.000 I still stand by that.

02:26:39.000 I haven't watched the third one yet.

02:26:41.000 I watched the second one.

02:26:42.000 And I said Scent of a Woman is better than John Wick.

02:26:44.000 Well, I haven't seen Scent of a Woman since it came out. 0.99

02:26:47.000 That's a good question, but there's no way that could be true.

02:26:50.000 I think there was a compromise on the topic of Big Lebowski.

02:26:55.000 That was the one that was a test.

02:26:58.000 You said you used that as a test.

02:27:00.000 I used to use that.

02:27:01.000 What's the new one?

02:27:03.000 What's the new one that I used?

02:27:03.000 Is there a good test?

02:27:05.000 I need a new one, but that was one that I used for a while. 0.99

02:27:08.000 If someone didn't like the Big Lebowski, I'm like, I can't fuck with you. 0.99

02:27:12.000 You and I are not going to vibe. 0.99

02:27:14.000 Yeah, but no, I got to put Scorsese up there over Tarantino for me.

02:27:18.000 Well, he's amazing.

02:27:19.000 There's no doubt about it.

02:27:20.000 It's very subjective.

02:27:21.000 But the thing is, I love Pulp Fiction.

02:27:24.000 Pulp Fiction has a special place in my mind because when I moved to California was right when Pulp Fiction came out.

02:27:32.000 And I remember seeing that.

02:27:34.000 I couldn't believe I'm living in Hollywood. 0.99

02:27:35.000 I'm like, what the fuck is this? 0.99

02:27:37.000 How am I on TV? Like, what am I doing here? 0.99

02:27:40.000 I was in my 20s.

02:27:41.000 I was like, you know, like, doe-eyed.

02:27:44.000 I was so confused. 0.98

02:27:45.000 And then I watched that movie and I remember thinking, that is the wildest fucking movie I've ever seen in my life. 0.97

02:27:51.000 Because you didn't know what was happening. 0.98

02:27:52.000 The timelines were all screwed up.

02:27:54.000 It was a crazy, crazy movie.

02:27:58.000 My biggest respect for him went up when I realized he wrote, I hope I don't get this wrong, but I think he wrote True Romance.

02:28:07.000 Yes, he did write True Romance.

02:28:09.000 That's probably one of my favorite films. 1.00

02:28:11.000 Great fucking movie. 0.99

02:28:14.000 He's good, and he doesn't have any misses, which is so interesting. 0.99

02:28:16.000 And it was also in your conversation, so I fast-forwarded the whole Bruce Lee thing, of course.

02:28:21.000 Yeah, that's a rough one.

02:28:22.000 That's a rough one.

02:28:23.000 But it was really interesting, the exchange between the two of you on the topic of walking away, doing one more movie and then walking away.

02:28:36.000 Yeah.

02:28:37.000 I've never heard anyone talk this way.

02:28:39.000 And just even to think this way, that you would walk away at the peak of your greatness.

02:28:45.000 Yeah.

02:28:45.000 Because you don't...

02:28:46.000 I mean, you talk about that with fighting, but fighting is a very different thing.

02:28:49.000 There's physical consequences, all that kind of stuff.

02:28:52.000 Yeah.

02:28:53.000 How many directors walk away?

02:28:54.000 Like, one of the saddest things to me, one of my favorite actors ever, is De Niro.

02:28:59.000 And whenever he went to those, like, Meet the Fockers and all those kinds of movies, That was a little bit sad to me.

02:29:07.000 I know people enjoy them.

02:29:08.000 That's sad, kind of, maybe, but maybe okay, because a lot of people enjoy those movies.

02:29:13.000 They're funny.

02:29:14.000 Ben Stiller's very funny.

02:29:15.000 Yeah.

02:29:16.000 The sad one is the...

02:29:18.000 What was the wizard movie that he was in? 0.98

02:29:21.000 He was in, like, this terrible fucking movie where he was, like, a king or a wizard or something like that. 0.99

02:29:26.000 It was so clear that he was... 0.99

02:29:28.000 It was like a fantasy movie, but it was so obvious that he was doing it for money.

02:29:31.000 It was like, Jesus Christ.

02:29:33.000 Isn't money?

02:29:35.000 Is it money or is it just kind of...

02:29:36.000 The rumor has always been that his wife, who is now divorced, or is in the process of divorcing, spends too much money.

02:29:47.000 Well...

02:29:47.000 That sometimes can happen, bro.

02:29:49.000 Be careful.

02:29:49.000 There he is.

02:29:50.000 What is this movie?

02:29:51.000 The most bizarre Robert De Niro movie you can watch on Netflix.

02:29:54.000 What is it called?

02:29:55.000 Stardust.

02:29:56.000 Stardust?

02:29:57.000 Look at it down there.

02:29:58.000 Who is that?

02:29:59.000 Is that Michelle Pfeiffer?

02:30:00.000 Yeah.

02:30:02.000 Michelle Pfeiffer and Robert De Niro in a nonsensical movie.

02:30:08.000 Look at that guy with the pipe!

02:30:09.000 He's a leprechaun!

02:30:10.000 I always wonder about that.

02:30:16.000 I almost don't, like from a podcasting perspective, I don't think you've interviewed a lot of actors here.

02:30:22.000 I have a few.

02:30:23.000 Scott Eastwood was on recently.

02:30:25.000 I love that guy.

02:30:26.000 You haven't interviewed Clint Eastwood.

02:30:29.000 No.

02:30:30.000 I certainly would.

02:30:32.000 But yeah, he's actually interesting outside of the director.

02:30:35.000 But I don't pursue anybody.

02:30:36.000 Right.

02:30:36.000 There you go.

02:30:37.000 Except I've been pursuing Lil Nas X. I try to get him on.

02:30:40.000 I love that guy. 0.96

02:30:42.000 I fucking love that dude. 0.94

02:30:43.000 Yeah, he's got a good sense of humor. 0.98

02:30:45.000 I love what he did.

02:30:46.000 I love that he had this big pop song.

02:30:49.000 You know, there was a huge hit. 0.83

02:30:51.000 And then he went full gay. 0.98

02:30:53.000 Like, giving Satan a lap dance and people freaking out. 0.99

02:30:57.000 And then this new one where he's in the shower and everyone's naked and they're all dancing naked in the shower.

02:31:02.000 I'm a little out of touch on this.

02:31:03.000 So he came out as gay a while back, right? 1.00

02:31:05.000 He came out like a fucking cannon. 1.00

02:31:08.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:31:09.000 With the devil?

02:31:10.000 But the music is great, too.

02:31:12.000 The thing is, it's not just that he's coming out of the closet, I celebrate the fact that he's able to be his authentic self, but it's also the music is fun.

02:31:20.000 It's good music, man.

02:31:21.000 Did he make out with somebody in that video?

02:31:24.000 Hopefully.

02:31:26.000 He made out with the devil, I think. 1.00

02:31:28.000 Well, he licked a demon's nipples. 1.00

02:31:32.000 That was the one that freaked everybody out. 1.00

02:31:35.000 And then the new one.

02:31:36.000 The new one, he's walking out of prison.

02:31:38.000 He's got these dudes holding his pocket.

02:31:40.000 Yeah.

02:31:41.000 That's a demon. 0.90

02:31:42.000 Is that a demon or the devil?

02:31:44.000 I forget.

02:31:46.000 I forget.

02:31:46.000 I need to watch it again.

02:31:48.000 But it's a great video.

02:31:49.000 But boy, did it freak people out, man.

02:31:52.000 That's what I liked about it.

02:31:53.000 He probably gets a lot of hate and a lot of support.

02:31:56.000 Both.

02:31:57.000 I love it when artists do that.

02:31:58.000 Just stick to it.

02:31:59.000 He is himself now.

02:32:02.000 He gets a lot of hate from some folks in the gay community that don't like this over-sexualized caricature of gay men.

02:32:11.000 But this is like, it comes with success.

02:32:15.000 You're going to get people in all sorts of weird groups that are upset at you for all sorts of Weird things.

02:32:21.000 He's a superstar.

02:32:21.000 I don't want to speak out of turn too much, but as far as I think, isn't there a bit of a problem with homophobia in the rap slash African American community that he's also fighting against?

02:32:33.000 A little bit, but he does like duets with guys like Nas, OGs, like Nas and Lil Nas X did a duet.

02:32:42.000 Do you say duet and rap?

02:32:43.000 What do you say?

02:32:45.000 They call it like a feature.

02:32:47.000 A feature.

02:32:48.000 I would call it a duet.

02:32:49.000 Interesting.

02:32:50.000 New terms.

02:32:51.000 Yeah, I remember somebody I like quite a bit, DMX, passed away.

02:32:57.000 He's got a little homophobia and other kinds of problems in his lyrics.

02:33:02.000 Some of the older lyrics?

02:33:04.000 Yeah.

02:33:05.000 Well, that was always a big part of rap.

02:33:06.000 Yeah.

02:33:07.000 Or a normalized part of rap.

02:33:10.000 But, you know, as times change, people look at things differently.

02:33:14.000 People change.

02:33:15.000 And care less about certain things.

02:33:16.000 You gotta, like, allow that.

02:33:17.000 Embrace that.

02:33:18.000 Yeah.

02:33:18.000 You gotta allow that.

02:33:20.000 But to answer your question, as far as, like, actors, there's a lot of actors I'd be interested in talking to.

02:33:26.000 One of the greatest, Brian Callen.

02:33:27.000 Yeah.

02:33:31.000 Wasn't he in the Joker?

02:33:33.000 Joey Diaz is in the new Sopranos movie.

02:33:35.000 That's right, yeah.

02:33:36.000 That's awesome.

02:33:37.000 But I always wonder whether you'd be disappointed if you actually sit down with some of the great actors and talk to them for two hours, three hours, like if they were in the Joe Rogan experience.

02:33:46.000 Depends on who they are.

02:33:48.000 Like Daniel Day-Lewis.

02:33:50.000 Daniel Day-Lewis, yeah.

02:33:51.000 I wonder.

02:33:52.000 I don't think I'd be disappointed with him at all.

02:33:54.000 So, I actually don't think you will either, but there's not many interviews of him.

02:33:58.000 I listened to, like, you can see there's a thinking person there, but he might be very different than all the roles he played.

02:34:07.000 I think with a guy like him, you would probably just want to have a conversation.

02:34:11.000 Like, I probably wouldn't even want to talk too much about his acting.

02:34:15.000 Like the process that you go through?

02:34:17.000 Yeah, I'd like to talk to him about shoemaking, you know, because he's a cobbler.

02:34:21.000 He decided to take time to be a cobbler. 0.74

02:34:23.000 I don't need to talk to him about, like, you know, There Will Be Blood or whatever fucking movie, The Boxer or whatever movie he's done. 0.96

02:34:31.000 I'd just like to talk to him as a person. 0.80

02:34:34.000 The first time I had Sturgill Simpson on, he didn't play any music.

02:34:37.000 We just talked.

02:34:39.000 We talked about stuff.

02:34:41.000 I think I'm interested in people.

02:34:45.000 I'm interested in the way people think about things and people who are great at whatever, whatever they're great at.

02:34:51.000 Whether it's great athletes or great martial artists or great You know, tech innovators.

02:34:59.000 I'm just interested in the way exceptional people think.

02:35:03.000 I don't need to talk to them about their specific discipline.

02:35:06.000 I can just talk to them about anything.

02:35:08.000 In fact, if someone like you is into AI but is like an amateur chess player, I'd like to talk to you about chess.

02:35:16.000 I'd like to talk about what you want to talk about, really.

02:35:20.000 This is so interesting.

02:35:22.000 I've been studying chess more and more recently, by the way.

02:35:27.000 Partially, I've been thinking about this because I have to interview probably...

02:35:33.000 Kasparov?

02:35:33.000 Well, Kasparov I interview again as well.

02:35:37.000 Did you do that?

02:35:37.000 Yeah, I've talked to him before.

02:35:39.000 But he has so many other interesting aspects to him that you can just talk to forever, like have a more casual conversation.

02:35:45.000 But Magnus Carlsen, who's the world champ...

02:35:48.000 You're going to interview him?

02:35:48.000 Yeah.

02:35:49.000 When is that?

02:35:50.000 I don't know.

02:35:51.000 It's a COVID situation.

02:35:52.000 It's a negotiation of how he's in London or in that area.

02:35:57.000 Are you going to have to fly there?

02:35:59.000 It's either that or he flies here.

02:36:02.000 And either way, it's COVID. Some sort of quarantine?

02:36:06.000 It's very difficult for them to fly.

02:36:08.000 It's easier for us to fly, us meaning US citizens, to fly to the UK. Is he going to require some sort of a test?

02:36:14.000 Is it him or is it the state?

02:36:17.000 Yeah, I don't...

02:36:18.000 So there's some of that.

02:36:20.000 Canada has the same problem.

02:36:21.000 I think August 9th, they've opened up.

02:36:23.000 Yeah.

02:36:24.000 Because Jordan Peterson went to have a conversation, but he's still too...

02:36:28.000 Well, whatever.

02:36:29.000 There's more private stuff, but he wants to stay private for now.

02:36:34.000 Recovering from his health and all those kinds of things.

02:36:36.000 So, yeah, that...

02:36:37.000 Isn't that crazy?

02:36:38.000 He's still recovering from that benzodiazepine thing.

02:36:41.000 That's wild.

02:36:42.000 Yeah.

02:36:43.000 And it can go back to square one any day.

02:36:48.000 Really?

02:36:48.000 That's the terrifying thing of it.

02:36:50.000 It's like, it's terrifying.

02:36:53.000 That's the one, along with alcohol. 1.00

02:36:55.000 The two things that if you quit cold turkey, it'll fucking kill you. 0.98

02:37:01.000 How many people are on those? 0.99

02:37:03.000 Yeah.

02:37:03.000 Let's Google that, because we freaked out over the opioids.

02:37:08.000 Let's Google how many people...

02:37:10.000 Let's take a guess.

02:37:12.000 But the prescriptions don't necessarily reflect the number of humans, right?

02:37:17.000 Because there's 365 days a year.

02:37:19.000 What do you get, 30 days in a prescription?

02:37:22.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:37:23.000 There's 12. So for one person, it's like a factor of 12. I'm guessing.

02:37:29.000 I don't know what they prescribe you.

02:37:29.000 They give you longer prescriptions.

02:37:30.000 I don't know.

02:37:31.000 So let's take a guess.

02:37:34.000 How many prescriptions?

02:37:35.000 If we saw how many prescriptions there were for opioids?

02:37:38.000 Any number would be very painful to me.

02:37:40.000 But, yeah, it's, I would say, in the hundreds of thousands.

02:37:45.000 I would say it's in the hundreds of millions.

02:37:48.000 I bet it's a hundred million.

02:37:49.000 I bet if there's 150 million opioid prescriptions...

02:37:54.000 I think there'd be more opioids.

02:37:56.000 There's a lot of people on Xanax, bro. 1.00

02:37:59.000 I know a lot of people on that shit. 1.00

02:38:02.000 I know a lot of people on that shit. 1.00

02:38:05.000 I knew a lady on that who would frown upon people smoking pot, and she had to take Xanax every day. 1.00

02:38:14.000 And she was not into drugs.

02:38:16.000 It was really funny.

02:38:17.000 Yeah, I take it back.

02:38:19.000 I almost don't want to allow myself to think that's in the millions.

02:38:22.000 I think it's in the millions.

02:38:26.000 Everybody you're talking to would then be on Xanax.

02:38:33.000 Well, I think a lot of people are on it.

02:38:35.000 I know, I have friends that are on it.

02:38:38.000 And they need it.

02:38:40.000 They need it to control anxiety.

02:38:41.000 And I have friends in show business that are on it that need it to control anxiety.

02:38:45.000 Well, it helps then.

02:38:46.000 See, that's the question, is like, what?

02:38:50.000 What's anxiety, right?

02:38:51.000 What does that mean?

02:38:52.000 And what else are you doing to mitigate it?

02:38:54.000 I love anxiety, right?

02:38:57.000 It brings out the best of me.

02:38:59.000 You clearly have paranoia and anxiety.

02:39:02.000 You're using that for your advantage.

02:39:04.000 I enhance it.

02:39:06.000 That's why I like pot.

02:39:07.000 People get freaked out when I say that.

02:39:09.000 Like, I like the paranoia.

02:39:11.000 I don't like it when it's happening.

02:39:13.000 But just like I don't like the sauna.

02:39:15.000 When I'm at 25 minutes at 195 degrees, I don't like it.

02:39:18.000 I like what it does for my body.

02:39:21.000 But I like the paranoia of pot because it makes me reflect in a genuine way.

02:39:27.000 By the way, thank you to the great Jamie for sending me into outer space with the gravity.

02:39:35.000 I think a single inhalation of the gravity bomb with weed.

02:39:39.000 Yeah, I got a gravity bong, and I didn't force him to take it, but I might have challenged him.

02:39:48.000 It's crazy, right?

02:39:49.000 Yeah, it's crazy. 0.99

02:39:50.000 Bongs are ridiculous. 0.99

02:39:51.000 You know what's ridiculous? 1.00

02:39:52.000 Those dabbers, those fucking crazy assholes. 1.00

02:39:54.000 What's that? 1.00

02:39:55.000 Oh, exactly.

02:39:55.000 What is that?

02:39:56.000 It's like a wax, like this THC wax.

02:39:59.000 They go too far.

02:40:00.000 They go too far.

02:40:01.000 Are you smoking it?

02:40:02.000 Yeah, you smoke it, and you smoke it in these weird contraptions. 1.00

02:40:06.000 These fucking freaks, they go too far. 1.00

02:40:09.000 They won't stop. 1.00

02:40:10.000 Let's get to that in a moment.

02:40:11.000 That's what I made him smoke, just so you know.

02:40:13.000 That was cool.

02:40:13.000 From an engineering perspective.

02:40:16.000 That was beautiful.

02:40:17.000 That is nice.

02:40:18.000 That's how I sold him on it.

02:40:19.000 So it flips upside down?

02:40:20.000 Yeah.

02:40:21.000 $600.

02:40:22.000 Whoa.

02:40:22.000 That's heavy.

02:40:26.000 Let's get a number.

02:40:27.000 Xanax.

02:40:28.000 How many Xanax prescriptions?

02:40:30.000 Let's say benzodiazepines or Xanax.

02:40:32.000 I guess there's different benzos. 1.00

02:40:34.000 Shit. 0.99

02:40:34.000 There's a couple it's given me when I look up benzodiazepines. 0.99

02:40:38.000 That's why I was trying to figure out what the main thing is.

02:40:41.000 This thing said it was listed as number 37 in 2018 as the most common.

02:40:47.000 There's a list which is around 20 million prescriptions.

02:40:50.000 This is on the Wikipedia, though, so I was looking through the list to see if I could find something else that was...

02:40:56.000 If there's a bigger category or something like that.

02:40:59.000 Yeah.

02:41:00.000 Did you say 20 million?

02:41:02.000 Is that what you said?

02:41:02.000 Yeah, but I found something else competing with that number one.

02:41:07.000 It pops up here on top of Google how many are prescribed.

02:41:13.000 You add these together and you're going to get close to 100 million, but that's 2017. Oh, so there's a bunch of different kinds.

02:41:19.000 Yeah.

02:41:20.000 And I don't know the difference between them.

02:41:22.000 So...

02:41:23.000 And still, at least from the Jordan Peterson experience, it seems like there's not good, well-understood signs of how to get off them properly.

02:41:31.000 What about Ibogaine?

02:41:35.000 Is there any data on using Ibogaine to get off of benzodiazepine?

02:41:40.000 Because it's phenomenal, apparently.

02:41:42.000 I haven't experienced Ibogaine, but the people that I know that have used it said it's phenomenal for getting off of opioids.

02:41:51.000 Is that legal to do research on?

02:41:53.000 I don't know.

02:41:54.000 Not in America.

02:41:55.000 I think that's when you have the Rick Doblin folk and Matthew Johnson.

02:41:59.000 They probably know this stuff.

02:42:00.000 Yeah, Ibogaine is legal in Mexico, and I know people go to Mexico to treat opioid addiction with Ibogaine.

02:42:09.000 I don't know about Ibogaine and benzodiazepine.

02:42:12.000 Yeah, I wonder if Jordan tried that.

02:42:15.000 That'd be interesting.

02:42:16.000 It would be interesting.

02:42:17.000 I think he's talked about psychedelics, but never in the context of trying them to cure his current situation.

02:42:25.000 Right.

02:42:25.000 I know he's talked about psilocybin.

02:42:27.000 He's had...

02:42:28.000 Not a lot of scientific thing, but just there's someone offering this and even says here that you have to keep taking the benzo through your Ibogaine treatment.

02:42:38.000 So, I mean, that sounds dangerous.

02:42:41.000 What?

02:42:42.000 People who are on benzo, people who are benzo dependent must continue their baseline injection through the Ibogaine treatment.

02:42:51.000 Benzo withdrawal increases the risk of seizure.

02:42:54.000 So we must keep it in your system at sufficient levels.

02:42:58.000 Tapering away from benzodiazepine may begin within 72 hours after a flood dose.

02:43:06.000 I like how they call it, flood dose.

02:43:09.000 Benzos during flood dose is said to hamper the visionary aspects of ibogaine and to soften the trip.

02:43:19.000 Well, I don't think I'm saying anything private.

02:43:24.000 So Jim Keller is, I think, the brother of Jordan's wife.

02:43:29.000 He's a legendary engineer.

02:43:31.000 People should check him out.

02:43:32.000 But he said from all of us looking into it, let's put Jordan aside, that the most effective way to get off of benzos is unfortunately the...

02:43:43.000 Not going cold turkey.

02:43:44.000 It's like decreasing the dose gradually over a long period of time.

02:43:48.000 What's a long period of time?

02:43:49.000 I think it's like months or years.

02:43:54.000 So it's like...

02:43:55.000 Years?

02:43:56.000 Yeah.

02:43:56.000 I mean, this is the only thing that...

02:44:00.000 So the temptation...

02:44:01.000 Most drugs, I think, what people say is to go cold turkey, right?

02:44:06.000 And then you just go through the...

02:44:10.000 The whole process of withdrawal, but...

02:44:14.000 Jordan had no idea of this when he got on it, right?

02:44:16.000 No, I don't think so.

02:44:18.000 I don't think so.

02:44:19.000 I don't think anybody had any idea.

02:44:20.000 When I heard about people taking Xanax, I thought it was just like taking anything else.

02:44:25.000 You take it and then you stop taking it.

02:44:27.000 I didn't think it was something that literally becomes impossible to get rid of.

02:44:31.000 Yeah.

02:44:33.000 Well, he's an interesting person to have gone through that because I hope he gets out of it and he'll be able to introspect.

02:44:41.000 But he's not totally out of it yet, huh?

02:44:42.000 No.

02:44:44.000 I don't want to say anything, but it's a struggle.

02:44:48.000 Wow.

02:44:50.000 That's wild.

02:44:51.000 He's an important human being, so I hope he's with us.

02:44:54.000 He's one of the most misrepresented people I've ever seen.

02:44:57.000 When I see people represent him in a way that is completely inaccurate and caricature of who he really is, I've been stunned at people's representations of who he is.

02:45:11.000 Stunned.

02:45:12.000 Like how willfully dishonest it is.

02:45:15.000 Yeah.

02:45:16.000 That plus the kind of not acknowledging that he's helped probably like millions of people.

02:45:24.000 For sure.

02:45:24.000 And he's an interesting guy.

02:45:27.000 He's a really interesting person.

02:45:29.000 He's a very nice person too.

02:45:30.000 Very nice person.

02:45:31.000 But, you know, he got caught up in that whole woke thing.

02:45:35.000 And the kickback against...

02:45:39.000 If you push back against the woke orthodoxy, the kickback is tremendous.

02:45:49.000 But not many people are willing to stand, like, walk through the fire of that.

02:45:56.000 It's the same thing with vaccines, the same with all these kind of things where there's the mainline story and to be a legitimate sort of...

02:46:04.000 So he's a well-published psychologist, like, with a career to be able to be willing to stand in that fire.

02:46:16.000 Especially when he was less known that takes a lot like most people are not willing to not brave enough to do that yeah major props to him no I'm a big fan of him as a human being you know not just as a public person a public intellectual a public person espousing ideas that are controversial but just him as a person like my time spent with him with no cameras on I like him a lot he's a really nice guy Yeah.

02:46:43.000 Extremely well-read.

02:46:45.000 Looks good in a suit.

02:46:46.000 Carnivore diet.

02:46:47.000 He's way too strict on the carnivore thing.

02:46:49.000 That's another thing that got weird with people.

02:46:52.000 They got upset that he was doing well eating meat.

02:46:57.000 Just meat.

02:46:58.000 People got really mad at that.

02:47:00.000 It was just one more layer of oppression that they bestowed upon him.

02:47:07.000 People want to say, you know, they'll see me and see, like, I talk kind of slow and look like I may be at least slightly mentally challenged.

02:47:16.000 Who says that?

02:47:17.000 I mean, whatever.

02:47:18.000 It's obvious when you watch me talk.

02:47:21.000 But the point is they'll be like, it's the carnivore diet or something.

02:47:23.000 No, it's not.

02:47:24.000 It's just the way I am.

02:47:26.000 The carnivore diet has nothing to do with it.

02:47:28.000 I feel good on carnivore.

02:47:29.000 I still, one of the questions I have, because I'm scaling up training, like, I want to, in September, scale up the training like hard with Craig Jones, with Donahard Gordon, like five, six times a week, and if you're doing a little experiment, and then compete a lot in like October.

02:47:48.000 Just compete, not stop.

02:47:49.000 You should compete for who's number one.

02:47:51.000 Find someone who's like an appropriate challenge.

02:47:56.000 Can you do me a favor?

02:47:58.000 One match I have in my life, can you commentate it?

02:48:01.000 Sure!

02:48:02.000 I would love to do that.

02:48:03.000 That'd be amazing.

02:48:04.000 I would love to do that.

02:48:06.000 But my question is, will Carnivore hold up to that?

02:48:10.000 So will I have to...

02:48:11.000 Supplement with glucose?

02:48:13.000 Yeah, I feel so good on Carnivore, so focused, so clarity of mind.

02:48:18.000 My cardio is not great because the cardio hasn't quite been there.

02:48:22.000 But it's not...

02:48:24.000 When my cardio has been amazing, it's been carnivore or keto.

02:48:28.000 Yeah, I think when I do only carnivore, my intense workouts struggle a little bit.

02:48:36.000 I've noticed that.

02:48:37.000 But you're talking, that's treadmill or kettlebells?

02:48:40.000 Rounds in the bag.

02:48:41.000 Rounds in the bag.

02:48:42.000 Hard cardio with explosiveness.

02:48:44.000 I feel like that's different than jiu-jitsu.

02:48:45.000 Yeah.

02:48:46.000 I don't know.

02:48:47.000 Maybe.

02:48:49.000 Maybe.

02:48:50.000 It's a little different.

02:48:52.000 It's a little different.

02:48:54.000 That pop, maybe, because the way I want to do jiu-jitsu is not like the skinny friend, I keep forgetting his name, the one with the pizza.

02:49:03.000 Mikey Musumechi?

02:49:04.000 Yeah, Mikey Musumechi.

02:49:05.000 So he is an artist of a different kind.

02:49:08.000 I love the pizza.

02:49:09.000 We're a skinny friend with a pizza.

02:49:11.000 Yeah.

02:49:12.000 People should check out.

02:49:13.000 He's like, he makes his own pizza.

02:49:14.000 It's awesome.

02:49:15.000 Not only does he do that, but he fasts for 24 hours, and then he eats two pizzas every night.

02:49:20.000 Like some, what is it, like 3,000, 4,000 calories, something like that?

02:49:23.000 Seven, he says.

02:49:24.000 7,000 calories.

02:49:24.000 He says 7,000 calories.

02:49:25.000 He makes his own pizza.

02:49:27.000 And it's like, it's really interesting.

02:49:29.000 He's a fascinating character.

02:49:31.000 Fascinating.

02:49:31.000 Because that guy, he's another seven-day-a-week guy.

02:49:34.000 Another seven-day-a-week training.

02:49:35.000 There's like maybe something to be said for that.

02:49:38.000 But there's also something to be said for pure obsession, like pure focus where your whole life is about this one thing that you're doing, you know?

02:49:56.000 Although, there's a balance.

02:49:58.000 I mean, I don't want to psychoanalyze.

02:50:00.000 No, I don't have any insider information about Donahar.

02:50:04.000 But they were in New York and then Puerto Rico.

02:50:06.000 When you have that singular obsession when you're in New York, there's still a release valve in the city.

02:50:13.000 When you're all just alone together, there's a few camps in Jiu Jitsu and martial arts that have been like that where you're just in the middle of nowhere.

02:50:22.000 You're together.

02:50:23.000 That can be too much.

02:50:25.000 So maybe there has to be a difference between stepping on the mat and the time off the mat.

02:50:30.000 When you're on the mat, there's that grind, there's that ritual of every single day or twice a day, whatever it is.

02:50:36.000 But when you step off, it's a little bit of an escape to an outside world.

02:50:40.000 There's something to that.

02:50:42.000 I'm a huge believer of training.

02:50:44.000 I'm with Dona on this.

02:50:46.000 Training every day, if not twice a day.

02:50:50.000 You have to listen to your body and you still step on the mat, but then maybe you're doing drilling as opposed to hard training.

02:50:57.000 Yeah.

02:50:58.000 Hard drilling versus hard training.

02:51:00.000 Yeah, if you're listening to your body, if you're doing it correctly.

02:51:03.000 If you don't, the thing about Jiu-Jitsu is your body will let you know if you don't, and you'll fall apart.

02:51:09.000 One of the things that's heartbreaking about communicating with Hickson, because of course Hickson, if you don't know, you know, Hickson was on my podcast a week ago.

02:51:18.000 And Hickson Gracie is widely considered the greatest Gracie of all time, one of the greatest jiu-jitsu practitioners who has ever lived, if not the greatest, and most certainly the champion of the most important family in the history of martial arts.

02:51:34.000 That's Hickson.

02:51:35.000 And such a fascinating person, but... 1.00

02:51:38.000 His body's fucked. 1.00

02:51:40.000 His back is fucked. 1.00

02:51:42.000 He's suffering from disc degeneration, the spaces in between his back. 1.00

02:51:50.000 All the gelatinous discs are deteriorated to almost nothing.

02:51:56.000 So he's basically bone on bone for all of his back.

02:51:59.000 So he's in real pain.

02:52:02.000 It's, you know, I have some disc degeneration.

02:52:05.000 I have quite a bit of it, actually.

02:52:07.000 But I have it to a point where I'm still functional, and I work very hard to maintain it.

02:52:13.000 I've had a lot of treatments, Regenikine and stem cells, and I have a lot of mitigation techniques I use for spinal decompression.

02:52:22.000 Back strengthening, but it's made me a little bit shorter, like my body's shrinking because the discs are smaller and smaller. 0.97

02:52:30.000 And I know that if I train hard with jiu-jitsu too much, it'll eventually get to where it's bone on bone and then I'm fucked. 0.98

02:52:38.000 I'm not fucked right now. 0.99

02:52:40.000 Like right now, I got good motion. 0.95

02:52:42.000 I can do most of the things I want to do.

02:52:44.000 I can train pretty hard, but I'm also 54. And there's a reality of the body.

02:52:49.000 It's like there's only so much you can do.

02:52:51.000 When I see Hickson, I see the future of most jiu-jitsu practitioners, you know?

02:52:57.000 What do you, psychologically, how do you deal with that 54? 1.00

02:53:01.000 Like, thinking about your future in Jiu Jitsu, given how much you love Jiu Jitsu, how much you love getting on the mat and training.

02:53:08.000 Do you see yourself, like when you're 70, when you're 80, do you see yourself still getting on the mat, maybe playing around with some stuff?

02:53:16.000 Maybe just for fun.

02:53:18.000 You know, Elio Gracie trained into his 90s.

02:53:22.000 He was training.

02:53:24.000 But very light and, you know, just fun playing. 0.98

02:53:28.000 Not like the hard sparring that you do when you're in your 20s and 30s where you just fucking... 0.94

02:53:33.000 You know, it's all like... 0.98

02:53:34.000 But that's how you get hurt.

02:53:37.000 Jean-Jacques Machado is one of the things that I brought up in my conversation with Hickson.

02:53:40.000 It's really amazing that Jean-Jacques, who is one of the greatest jiu-jitsu practitioners of all time, still rolls to this day because he's so smart.

02:53:54.000 And Jean-Jacques is probably close to 50, if not 50. But he's very fit, very healthy, very flexible and loose.

02:54:04.000 But he doesn't explode.

02:54:07.000 Everything's controlled and perfect technique.

02:54:11.000 His precision and his technique are so excellent that there's no need to ever rush something or muscle something.

02:54:20.000 And I think that...

02:54:23.000 When you're in competition a lot, and you're in competition to tap younger guys and to dominate real explosive individuals, you run the risk of these injuries.

02:54:36.000 And the big injuries are the spinal injuries, because all the other injuries you can fix.

02:54:41.000 If you've got a joint injury, those can be fixed. 0.97

02:54:45.000 Meniscus is bad, but the real bad shit is discs. 0.98

02:54:49.000 That's the real bad one. 0.99

02:54:51.000 And everybody that I know that develops real spinal problems, tingling of the nerves, that's the shit that really doesn't go away. 0.99

02:55:03.000 But then you as a scholar and a commentator of mixed martial arts... 0.98

02:55:08.000 I was talking to Craig about this.

02:55:11.000 Because when I was super active and competing, it was like seven years ago, I would say, six years ago.

02:55:17.000 And he's like, the game has changed.

02:55:19.000 He was explaining in ways it has changed.

02:55:21.000 So one of them is foot locks.

02:55:23.000 Now the other one is the body lock.

02:55:25.000 The Marcello game of butterfly.

02:55:28.000 It's much harder to play butterfly guard now because of the body lock.

02:55:31.000 So he was explaining all these ways.

02:55:34.000 It's good.

02:55:35.000 I think it would be amazing for you to get on the mat with Don and her and start learning.

02:55:41.000 Yeah, I can't wait until he moves here.

02:55:42.000 I'm really excited about that.

02:55:43.000 Just learning from him.

02:55:45.000 The evolution of the game.

02:55:47.000 He's obviously a part of the people that are doing that evolution.

02:55:53.000 Have you ever seen their jiu-jitsu instructional series?

02:55:56.000 Yeah.

02:55:56.000 Phenomenal.

02:55:57.000 The best out there.

02:55:58.000 Amazing stuff.

02:55:59.000 Gordon has a really good one in guard passing.

02:56:02.000 Craig has a few really good ones.

02:56:04.000 John is not for everyone, I would say, but I love it because they're so long.

02:56:13.000 It's like if Miyamoto Musashi was doing instructional.

02:56:16.000 Like, half the time it's philosophy.

02:56:18.000 Right. 0.99

02:56:19.000 I love that shit, but, like, sometimes they just want to know not the big principles of, like, of the system, but more, like, specific techniques. 0.99

02:56:27.000 But I think having principles is, like, that's essential to understand. 0.99

02:56:33.000 And Gordon's really good at explaining, I watched one with guard passing, his explanation of, like, just the, like, what is guard passing?

02:56:42.000 Just the entirety of the system.

02:56:43.000 Yeah.

02:56:45.000 Craig is the first one that...

02:56:47.000 You know, like Dean Lister, why would you ignore half the body?

02:56:51.000 Craig actually said something to me.

02:56:52.000 I know others have said this a million times.

02:56:55.000 But we're doing some guard passing stuff.

02:56:58.000 And he's like...

02:57:03.000 We're trying to talk through how to pass the guard.

02:57:07.000 And he said, why do you want to step into their guard?

02:57:12.000 Why not just go around it?

02:57:14.000 Why do you want to pass the guard?

02:57:17.000 Just go around it.

02:57:19.000 So he's talking about these Torian, which seems to be really effective in no-gee grappling. 1.00

02:57:25.000 You're going around the guard.

02:57:27.000 So you're not entering into the guard and then from there passing.

02:57:30.000 You're going around it.

02:57:31.000 And that's a way to break them also mentally and exhaust them until they just let go.

02:57:36.000 So never giving the guard player an opportunity to connect with you in a real, like, in any way that makes them comfortable to attack.

02:57:45.000 So it's always Toriando passing.

02:57:46.000 Like, moving their knees, throwing their knees to the side.

02:57:49.000 That's ideal for sure, but some guys you can't do that too.

02:57:53.000 His idea is like, why not?

02:57:56.000 Well, you know, he's elite and he can get away with it because he has a level of proficiency that's above most of the people.

02:58:04.000 You see when he tapped Ronaldo?

02:58:06.000 Yeah.

02:58:07.000 That just shows you.

02:58:08.000 Like, Ronaldo's like elite of the elite, right?

02:58:11.000 And when Craig got a hold of him, you could see he was lost.

02:58:15.000 Yeah.

02:58:15.000 You know, and Craig locks up his leg and he's forced to tap.

02:58:18.000 There's a lot of guys Craig could do that to.

02:58:20.000 A lot of guys.

02:58:22.000 What John has done and what Gordon and Nicky and Gary Tonin and Nicky Rod have done, they've created an amazing level where they're all feeding off each other, which is really weird that they're separating right now.

02:58:37.000 It's like the Beatles.

02:58:38.000 I don't even want to ask questions, man.

02:58:40.000 You know what Craig Jones said?

02:58:41.000 He's like, in case anyone's wondering, I'm not Yoko Ono.

02:58:45.000 I want to know who's the Yoko in this story.

02:58:48.000 I mean, there's something to be said to greatness always kind of...

02:58:52.000 Like, it can't last.

02:58:55.000 Yeah.

02:58:55.000 Well, that's what we were talking about with fighters, like MMA fighters, that they can only maintain those RPMs for a certain number of years.

02:59:02.000 The thing about what Gordon is doing right now is that Gordon is only 26. 25, 26?

02:59:07.000 Yeah.

02:59:08.000 I mean, he's not even in his athletic prime.

02:59:12.000 He's got like four or five more years before he really hits peak.

02:59:16.000 And then he's probably got another four or five more years after that where he can maintain that peak, which is really incredible.

02:59:21.000 When he's 34, he'll still be at the top.

02:59:25.000 I mean, Wagner Rocha is number one in his weight class.

02:59:28.000 He's 40, right?

02:59:29.000 Yeah.

02:59:29.000 Imagine.

02:59:30.000 Gordon Ryan at 40. Well, that said, Gordon did kind of retire, right, because of the stomach thing.

02:59:36.000 He's doing much better.

02:59:38.000 He's doing much better?

02:59:38.000 Much better.

02:59:39.000 Yeah, weighs too well.

02:59:41.000 They've been treating him.

02:59:42.000 Those are the guys that actually gave me the sign back here.

02:59:45.000 Nice.

02:59:46.000 Yeah.

02:59:47.000 Shout out to my man, Brigham.

02:59:49.000 But they have put him on a protocol, and there's some ways to deal with his particular stomach ailment, to deal with biologics, BBC 157 and stem cells.

03:00:01.000 There's some treatments that are effective, and he has had a big reaction to it.

03:00:08.000 He's not 100%, but he's quite a bit better.

03:00:11.000 He can keep more food down.

03:00:12.000 That was the thing. 0.96

03:00:14.000 Gordon was the best grappler in the world, the best grappler of all time, and he was dealing with a stomach issue that kept him from eating food, which is just fucking crazy.

03:00:25.000 Like, imagine that guy at 100%.

03:00:27.000 Yeah.

03:00:28.000 You know, it's also possible that Friedrich Nietzsche, I think, famously suffers from migraines.

03:00:35.000 It's like, maybe it's good to suffer from something.

03:00:38.000 I think it's good to suffer from something.

03:00:41.000 Self-imposed, at the very least, I am at my best when I am self-imposed suffering.

03:00:49.000 I like working out with a trainer, but there's something about me that likes working out by myself.

03:00:55.000 I like suffering when I don't have to.

03:00:57.000 There's no reason to.

03:00:59.000 There's no reason to put... 0.99

03:01:01.000 When I write some shit down, I know I have to do it. 0.98

03:01:03.000 There's no reason for me to do it. 0.99

03:01:05.000 But there's a massive satisfaction in doing it.

03:01:10.000 And running in the Austin heat is suffering. 1.00

03:01:12.000 I don't know if you've run outside, but that is a motherfucker. 0.99

03:01:15.000 I've been, like, not answering Goggins' emails. 0.99

03:01:19.000 Just slowly trying to train, because...

03:01:22.000 There's levels.

03:01:23.000 There's levels to crazy.

03:01:25.000 Goggins is on a completely different level.

03:01:28.000 Not doing anything with him in the summer. 0.99

03:01:30.000 He's nuts.

03:01:32.000 But like I was telling you offline, the go-to is run and then body weight, push-ups and pull-ups. 0.94

03:01:40.000 You can go so far with that.

03:01:41.000 Yeah, for sure.

03:01:42.000 Especially for jiu-jitsu.

03:01:44.000 No, it's phenomenal for jiu-jitsu because bodyweight exercises in high repetition really mimic the kind of conditioning that you need for jiu-jitsu.

03:01:53.000 It really does.

03:01:55.000 And there's a mental aspect to it, just putting your body in strain.

03:02:00.000 So bodyweight squats, too, sounds easy, but it's not after a while.

03:02:05.000 I do them every day.

03:02:06.000 I do 100 every day.

03:02:08.000 Just bodyweight.

03:02:08.000 I do 100 Hindu squats every day in a row.

03:02:11.000 I don't do shit until I do 100 Hindu squats. 0.99

03:02:14.000 Every day. 0.99

03:02:15.000 My respect for you just went up. 1.00

03:02:17.000 That's good shit. 0.99

03:02:18.000 I mean, it's way harder than it sounds. 1.00

03:02:20.000 Well, you know what it does, too?

03:02:21.000 It builds this muscle at the top of the quadriceps, like, where the knee hits.

03:02:26.000 And I talked to a bunch of people about that, and they think that it's, like, one of the best exercises for stabilizing the knee.

03:02:34.000 It's very similar to that knee over toes guy's idea.

03:02:38.000 Like, the knee does go over the toes when you do Hindu squats. 1.00

03:02:43.000 And I think this kind of movement feels like it makes you more functional for everyday life, like for going up the stairs, for doing stupid shit. 0.98

03:02:52.000 I remember getting injured when I was lifting real heavy in my early 20s, like power, like real heavy weight. 0.99

03:02:59.000 I remember getting really hurt just opening the window.

03:03:02.000 I got seriously injured.

03:03:06.000 Because everything's already broken down.

03:03:07.000 Everything's already broken down.

03:03:09.000 And then I just remember I don't want to be that guy.

03:03:12.000 It doesn't matter how much you squat or deadlift or whatever.

03:03:15.000 You want to be functional in everyday life.

03:03:17.000 Right.

03:03:18.000 Well, that's Hickson.

03:03:19.000 Hickson's training, even when he was doing weightlifting, he was doing light weights.

03:03:25.000 It was very functional training stuff, cleans and presses.

03:03:28.000 It was just about movement and keeping the body fluid and healthy and range of motion and flexibility.

03:03:37.000 Can I read you a poem?

03:03:39.000 Yeah.

03:03:41.000 Okay, I learned my lesson.

03:03:43.000 If we were anywhere else, imagine if you and I were eating dinner.

03:03:46.000 I'm like, what? 1.00

03:03:47.000 What the fuck? 0.99

03:03:48.000 No, this is only because there's a microphone. 1.00

03:03:50.000 Okay.

03:03:51.000 All right.

03:03:53.000 Did you write this poem?

03:03:55.000 No, I didn't write.

03:03:55.000 See, I learned my lesson.

03:03:56.000 I'm not doing stupid shit. 0.98

03:03:59.000 Okay, just for the record, last time I played music on here, I forget when that was. 0.99

03:04:03.000 It was great.

03:04:04.000 You read comments too much.

03:04:06.000 It's not the comments.

03:04:07.000 It was scary.

03:04:09.000 It took guts for me to do it, and that's why I did it.

03:04:12.000 It's not necessarily the quality.

03:04:14.000 But what's the negative of it?

03:04:16.000 There's no negative.

03:04:17.000 But why do you say it as if there's some sort of repercussions?

03:04:21.000 So, right now, I kind of decided, like, I'm not a professional musician, obviously, but, so, like, I have in my repertoire, I'm able to play a lot of Hendrix.

03:04:34.000 So I've always wanted to play Hendrix here, but it always felt difficult.

03:04:40.000 Right.

03:04:40.000 Like, this doesn't feel right.

03:04:41.000 Even, like, Gary Clark Jr., like, playing. 0.99

03:04:43.000 It's better if he's, like, fucking around more. 0.96

03:04:48.000 But if you're performing a serious thing, it doesn't feel right here. 0.98

03:04:52.000 That's not what this is, right?

03:04:54.000 Well, it's interesting.

03:04:55.000 Like, sometimes it's okay.

03:04:57.000 Like, some people do...

03:04:58.000 Like, Suzanne from Honey Honey.

03:05:00.000 Yeah.

03:05:00.000 Like, she's had some of the best performances I've ever seen right here.

03:05:05.000 Yeah.

03:05:05.000 Some people could ever last, like...

03:05:07.000 It inspired him to do a whole acoustic thing.

03:05:11.000 My Life Acoustic, that was inspired from him doing sets here.

03:05:16.000 Yeah, he played What It's Like.

03:05:17.000 Yeah.

03:05:18.000 I love Everlast.

03:05:19.000 Yeah.

03:05:20.000 I get it.

03:05:21.000 I mean, maybe that's long-term.

03:05:23.000 But I know what you're saying.

03:05:24.000 It's a different thing.

03:05:25.000 I mean, if I was...

03:05:26.000 So here's the...

03:05:28.000 Okay.

03:05:29.000 It's difficult to play Voodoo Child, for example.

03:05:32.000 Ah...

03:05:33.000 In the full...

03:05:34.000 There's a technical way to play it, which is like precise.

03:05:37.000 That's not as fun.

03:05:38.000 You want to play it precise plus improvise. 1.00

03:05:41.000 Shoot the shit, have fun with it. 1.00

03:05:43.000 Probably, I don't usually get high, but like get into the spirit, right? 1.00

03:05:47.000 You don't usually get high.

03:05:48.000 Yeah.

03:05:49.000 When you're at Jamie's house, you are.

03:05:50.000 Yeah, exactly.

03:05:51.000 But to perform it, like, loose and fully in it, that requires, like, you have to first go actually play it live in front of people, like, relax.

03:06:02.000 I mean, it's like performing jokes or something.

03:06:05.000 You have to get really good at that.

03:06:07.000 And I haven't, just like the Q people, most of my music playing has been by myself. 1.00

03:06:13.000 What does that mean by, like, the Q people?

03:06:15.000 No, I'm saying, like, most of my art is created behind the computer by myself.

03:06:20.000 Okay.

03:06:20.000 That's what I mean by the Q people.

03:06:22.000 But I love...

03:06:22.000 Do you think you've ever do, like, a show?

03:06:24.000 Like, maybe you do, like, a set at Antones?

03:06:26.000 Like music?

03:06:27.000 Do, like, a live performance?

03:06:28.000 Yeah.

03:06:29.000 So I used to play live.

03:06:31.000 It's terrifying.

03:06:32.000 So some people stand up to the pressure well.

03:06:36.000 For music, it's terrifying.

03:06:40.000 I wonder how many repetitions it takes to fully lose that pressure.

03:06:48.000 There's several things.

03:06:50.000 What I'm referring to with Hendrix is just technically difficult, too.

03:06:54.000 So it's not only that you have to lose yourself, you also have to be on point finger-wise.

03:07:02.000 It's like if you're a physical act or something like that, you really just have to also perform really well.

03:07:08.000 I don't know.

03:07:09.000 For me, when I get on stage, especially when there's a larger number of people, I feel it.

03:07:16.000 And I wonder if reps can get over that.

03:07:19.000 I definitely...

03:07:20.000 I think you have to do reps in front of people.

03:07:22.000 Yeah, in front of people.

03:07:22.000 I mean, I think it's like, did you ever read Outliers?

03:07:26.000 When they talked about the Beatles, you know, and the Beatles performing in, I think it was Munich?

03:07:30.000 Is that what they did?

03:07:32.000 They were doing just constant shows all the time.

03:07:35.000 So when the people, when the general public first saw the Beatles when they went mainstream, they had been working together.

03:07:43.000 For so many hours and hours and hours of live performances in front of passionate audiences, that they were a finely tuned machine.

03:07:54.000 And that, you know, when you think about Hendrix, Hendrix was not just technically proficient.

03:08:01.000 He was also free in this way that I don't want to advocate drug use.

03:08:08.000 It's like, what's that Hunter S. Thompson quote?

03:08:10.000 I don't want to advocate drug use.

03:08:13.000 It's worked for me.

03:08:13.000 Yeah, drug use and violence, but it's always worked for me.

03:08:17.000 There's something to Hendrick's looseness and the freedom of his expression that's just...

03:08:27.000 I don't know if you get there any other way.

03:08:30.000 I don't know.

03:08:31.000 I don't mean...

03:08:33.000 There's certain liberties that he would take with notes.

03:08:38.000 To me, Voodoo Child, to me, is like, if I'm tired and I play that song, like if I'm on a stair mill or something like that and I play that song, it's like fuel for the body.

03:08:52.000 It's like a drug.

03:08:53.000 All of a sudden I'm like, whoa, let's go! 1.00

03:08:57.000 Your body just fucking feeds off of it. 0.98

03:09:02.000 There's something about his interpretation of those notes. 0.99

03:09:07.000 Yeah.

03:09:08.000 Especially when it's like live, because he loses himself much more in the WAP. I just lose himself.

03:09:14.000 I actually like the Stevie Ray Vaughan version.

03:09:18.000 Yeah, Stevie Ray Vaughan's version is amazing.

03:09:19.000 But it's different.

03:09:20.000 It's more technical.

03:09:21.000 It's less loosey.

03:09:23.000 Well, it's also a bit of an homage, right?

03:09:25.000 It's an homage, yeah.

03:09:26.000 Yeah.

03:09:27.000 Which you don't want to outperform the master sometimes.

03:09:30.000 Well, it's, you know, can you even?

03:09:32.000 It's like you're always going to, everyone's going to know that even if you take it further, you took it further because the other guy had the baton first and he handed it to you.

03:09:40.000 Like, you know.

03:09:41.000 Well, then Johnny Cash just owned Hart from Nine Inch Nails.

03:09:45.000 Yeah, there's a little bit of that.

03:09:47.000 Some people just take the song.

03:09:48.000 Well, also he was dying.

03:09:50.000 Yeah.

03:09:50.000 So the whole, the story of the man is...

03:09:53.000 You know, there's a quality to his voice when he was singing that where he was at the end of the road and a road where he was... 0.62

03:10:03.000 I mean, I don't want to speak for him, but it seems like a fucking amazing life. 0.85

03:10:09.000 And he kind of knew it. 0.97

03:10:10.000 Yeah.

03:10:12.000 Complex, dude, too.

03:10:14.000 So complex.

03:10:16.000 So Voodoo Child is your number one? 0.94

03:10:18.000 It's one of them.

03:10:19.000 For Jimmy?

03:10:21.000 Yeah.

03:10:21.000 So All Along the Watchtower.

03:10:23.000 By the way, I love playing Hey Joe.

03:10:25.000 Wouldn't play it here because it's ridiculous. 0.95

03:10:27.000 Where are you going with that gut in your hand? 0.98

03:10:29.000 I would love to play that song, but it's too ridiculous. 0.96

03:10:33.000 All Along the Watchtower is actually... 0.57

03:10:35.000 If Six was Nine, it's another one. 0.84

03:10:38.000 Castle's made of sand.

03:10:39.000 Yeah, there's so many.

03:10:41.000 I've always been a fan of the candle that burns quickly and is snuffed out before it's primed.

03:10:49.000 What's he, 27?

03:10:50.000 Yeah, same as Morrison, same as Janis Joplin.

03:10:53.000 Two other people that I'm massive fans with.

03:10:56.000 Massive fans of Janis Joplin.

03:10:58.000 Because Janis Joplin was another one.

03:11:00.000 Her vibe was so weird, right?

03:11:03.000 She was this weird, hippie... 0.99

03:11:07.000 It wasn't very attractive physically, but her voice had so much fucking soul and agony in it, you know? 0.99

03:11:16.000 Like, Take Another Little Piece of My Heart. 0.96

03:11:18.000 Yeah, that song is just...

03:11:20.000 Oh, there he is.

03:11:22.000 There was just something about that time, too, where you're talking about the 60s, which came right after the 50s. 0.96

03:11:30.000 So imagine a world where in 2011, everybody was a dork.

03:11:36.000 And then in 2021, people were doing acid and freaking out.

03:11:43.000 And one of the things they said about Hendrix's headband, he would put acid...

03:11:46.000 I don't know if this is true.

03:11:47.000 He'd put acid in the headband.

03:11:49.000 And then put it on and tie it on his head.

03:11:52.000 And then as he would sweat, the acid would get into his pores.

03:11:57.000 And it would get into his bloodstream.

03:12:00.000 Maybe we have that coming.

03:12:01.000 Maybe we're living through the 50s right now.

03:12:03.000 It sounds like something we would do, but that sounds like it wouldn't work, too.

03:12:06.000 No, I think it would work.

03:12:07.000 But isn't that how Albert Hoffman eventually, or originally rather, got intoxicated with LSD when he was synthesizing it in a lab?

03:12:14.000 I believe it went through his dermis.

03:12:16.000 Yeah, in the second paragraph of Did Jimi Hendrix Do This?

03:12:20.000 It says, it's not completely impossible to dose yourself that way, but it would be a lot less effort to just take it.

03:12:28.000 Yeah, but maybe he did it for fun that way. 0.99

03:12:30.000 Like, put some droplets in his headband and then tie that bitch on, and then you start sweating. 1.00

03:12:39.000 And then it gets into your system. 0.99

03:12:41.000 I mean, imagine tripping on acid in front of, like, Woodstock crowds.

03:12:45.000 Yeah.

03:12:46.000 Playing the Star Spangled Banner with your teeth.

03:12:50.000 Other versions of the story says it was heroin or cocaine under the bandana.

03:12:54.000 But I don't know that it doesn't say if it's true or not.

03:12:58.000 So it's just a rumor.

03:12:59.000 You know what?

03:13:00.000 I was watching these live...

03:13:02.000 Freddie Mercury from Queen.

03:13:04.000 When he was performing Live Aid or something like that.

03:13:08.000 That performance.

03:13:09.000 I watch that.

03:13:10.000 I return to that often because he...

03:13:13.000 Just to be able to control the audience.

03:13:16.000 He does this thing with a voice thing.

03:13:19.000 He's an incredible singer.

03:13:20.000 He sings something and he tells the audience to sing it.

03:13:24.000 And then they sing it and then he goes back and forth.

03:13:27.000 Just to have one man to have that control. 0.99

03:13:31.000 And then to perform the fucking best version of every song. 0.99

03:13:42.000 Look at the sound of that crowd! 0.99

03:13:46.000 Ero!

03:13:48.000 Ero!

03:13:49.000 Ero!

03:13:50.000 Ero!

03:13:54.000 Ero!

03:13:55.000 Ero!

03:13:56.000 Ero!

03:14:01.000 Ero!

03:14:11.000 All right! 0.99

03:14:13.000 The balls in that guy. 0.99

03:14:15.000 Yeah, well, he was at the peak of his powers. 0.99

03:14:20.000 That's another guy that died too soon.

03:14:23.000 There's so many of them that are so great that died too soon.

03:14:25.000 It's almost like The universe doesn't want you to live long enough.

03:14:31.000 If you're that big, that's special.

03:14:34.000 But I don't know if it's even that you can't handle it.

03:14:37.000 It's just like, that's just how it goes, man. 1.00

03:14:40.000 Whether you're Elvis or whoever the fuck you are, man. 1.00

03:14:43.000 That's just how it goes. 1.00

03:14:45.000 Well, everyone's life is too short, right?

03:14:48.000 Well...

03:14:49.000 Relative...

03:14:50.000 By the time you start figuring things out, it's too late.

03:14:53.000 You know, that's the hustle, right? 0.92

03:14:55.000 But by the time you figure shit out, you're probably not going to create anything great. 0.84

03:15:00.000 I feel like greatness... 0.99

03:15:01.000 Because your body's deteriorating.

03:15:03.000 Yeah.

03:15:03.000 For the most part.

03:15:04.000 I feel like greatness is created at that edge. 1.00

03:15:06.000 When you haven't quite figured it out, you're kind of too stupid to know better. 1.00

03:15:11.000 Which is why Elon Musk is fascinating. 1.00

03:15:14.000 He's getting up there and he's still doing stupid shit. 0.99

03:15:17.000 He's still taking big risks and all that kind of stuff. 0.99

03:15:20.000 Yeah, artists, particularly musical artists in general, they get to a certain point in time and they lose whatever, like rock and roll people, they lose whatever it means to be this creative force.

03:15:36.000 In general, and it's not universal, but in general, musicians stop really creating great music as they get older.

03:15:45.000 They might be able to recreate the great music of the past.

03:15:48.000 If you go see the Beach Boys, they're not busting out new songs.

03:15:51.000 You know what I mean?

03:15:53.000 Even the Stones.

03:15:55.000 The Stones are still playing today. 1.00

03:15:57.000 Nobody wants to see the new shit. 1.00

03:15:58.000 Shut the fuck up with your new shit. 1.00

03:16:00.000 I mean, I guess they had a long stretch of, like, their big hits weren't, like, over, like, a couple of decades. 1.00

03:16:08.000 But, yeah, they haven't lasted.

03:16:10.000 I'm trying to think if there's anybody.

03:16:13.000 Avalanche has done well.

03:16:14.000 But, like, there's, like...

03:16:15.000 Bruce Springsteen.

03:16:16.000 Bruce Springsteen.

03:16:16.000 Yeah, he still makes a lot of new stuff, but there's not a lot of iconic rock stars that people want and get excited about their new releases.

03:16:29.000 In general, they're nostalgic for the stuff that they busted out.

03:16:34.000 When they were in their prime.

03:16:36.000 Bruce Springsteen would be definitely great for this podcast.

03:16:40.000 But he did that thing with Obama.

03:16:42.000 It was odd. 0.99

03:16:43.000 I shit on it a little bit. 0.98

03:16:45.000 Did you? 0.99

03:16:46.000 Publicly?

03:16:46.000 Yeah.

03:16:47.000 It wasn't great.

03:16:49.000 It was whack.

03:16:50.000 It wasn't great.

03:16:52.000 It was like watered down milk.

03:16:55.000 It just didn't seem like they were free.

03:16:59.000 They were too conscious that people were listening and there's too much at stake.

03:17:03.000 There's too much going on.

03:17:05.000 I think podcasts have to be born out of nothing and somehow or another maintain that essence. 0.95

03:17:11.000 They have to maintain the essence that no one gives a shit about what you have to say. 0.99

03:17:15.000 And do it when millions of people give a shit about what you have to say. 0.99

03:17:18.000 It's not easy to do. 0.99

03:17:20.000 Yeah, you do that really well.

03:17:22.000 Like, however the hell you do it.

03:17:23.000 Probably weed and exercise.

03:17:26.000 We didn't exercise.

03:17:28.000 I mean, I don't know.

03:17:28.000 I think about that, too, as the platforms grow and stuff like that.

03:17:33.000 I've noticed just my own ego looking in the mirror.

03:17:36.000 It's shrinking more than anything.

03:17:39.000 But you never know.

03:17:40.000 It might...

03:17:40.000 But you have a good sense of humility and the significance of humility.

03:17:47.000 Humility is very, very important because it's the only thing that will save you when your ego gets overwhelmed.

03:17:54.000 It's the saddest thing in the world when you see someone overwhelmed by their ego to the point where they want and expect a certain type of treatment of other people.

03:18:07.000 I've tried as I've gotten more and more famous to be more appreciative and more humble.

03:18:17.000 I've tried.

03:18:18.000 It's something I work at.

03:18:20.000 I'm not perfect at it.

03:18:22.000 No human being is perfect at it.

03:18:24.000 But the problem with the world of podcasting in general is that there's no blueprint for it.

03:18:30.000 It hasn't been established.

03:18:31.000 It's not like, you know, if you want to be a rock star, you can pay attention to Hendrix.

03:18:35.000 You can pay attention to Led Zeppelin.

03:18:37.000 You want to be a famous podcaster.

03:18:42.000 Who are you looking at? 0.99

03:18:44.000 Who's fucking done it? 0.99

03:18:45.000 The hilarious thing is you're looking at Rogan. 0.99

03:18:48.000 Yeah, but Rogan's telling you. 0.99

03:18:50.000 Rogan's telling you there's no fucking guidelines. 0.93

03:18:53.000 And you're not going to do it the way I do it because you're not me anyway. 0.96

03:18:57.000 It's going to be a while before we figure out how to do this right.

03:19:00.000 But I think humility is significant.

03:19:04.000 And you do it very, very, very well.

03:19:06.000 You're one of my favorite people to listen to and your podcast is excellent.

03:19:10.000 You're one of the very best at removing yourself from a situation and interviewing people and trying to extract the most out of them and it's not easy.

03:19:22.000 I think about podcasting aside.

03:19:27.000 I really want to launch a company.

03:19:29.000 If you're super successful, you're talking about 1,000, 10,000 employees.

03:19:35.000 I look at people that are CEOs now and a lot of them seem to have lost touch with the reality a little bit.

03:19:41.000 So I wonder what kind of systems you can create for yourself to keep that ego in check, to keep in touch with reality.

03:19:49.000 You know, that process is really interesting.

03:19:52.000 And again, there's no good blueprint for that either.

03:19:55.000 I think it needs to be done in solitary, and I think it needs to be about self-imposed suffering.

03:20:01.000 Yeah.

03:20:01.000 I don't think there's any other way around it.

03:20:03.000 I've thought about this, man.

03:20:05.000 I wish there was.

03:20:05.000 I don't want to do it, but I don't think I can perform at my best.

03:20:12.000 Here's the problem.

03:20:13.000 Even discussing self-imposed suffering and the fact that I do it is a little bit of an ego boost, because I'll let you know that I torture myself in a way, like physically torture myself.

03:20:25.000 You know, like, oh, what are you, working out hard?

03:20:27.000 Like, there's part of that.

03:20:29.000 But that's the reality of what it is.

03:20:32.000 I just don't think there's any other way.

03:20:35.000 I think you need challenges.

03:20:36.000 And I think if you live a life without challenges, you're going to become a tyrant.

03:20:42.000 Yeah, that's one of the reasons I really admire David Goggins is there's an element to his suffering that the fact that the camera is sometimes turned on is an accident.

03:20:56.000 Right.

03:20:57.000 Like he's suffering, like the tree that falls in the forest and nobody is there to see it, that's David Goggins.

03:21:03.000 He'll be out there screaming into the air by himself.

03:21:07.000 Legitimately.

03:21:08.000 Same as Cam Haynes.

03:21:10.000 Yeah, Cam Haynes.

03:21:11.000 He's another one.

03:21:12.000 But he's not even screaming.

03:21:13.000 That's the ultimate form.

03:21:15.000 Cam Haynes is just out there suffering.

03:21:18.000 And he works an eight-hour-a-day job.

03:21:21.000 Yeah.

03:21:22.000 Yeah.

03:21:24.000 It's the quietest form of inspiration is Cam Haynes.

03:21:28.000 Because he's not...

03:21:29.000 That's not even...

03:21:30.000 I don't think he does motivational stuff where he's screaming.

03:21:34.000 No, he's like...

03:21:35.000 He just does the work.

03:21:36.000 You happen to see through the...

03:21:38.000 A little bit through the inklings of information that he just runs nonstop.

03:21:43.000 Well, I see it because he's one of my best friends.

03:21:46.000 But, you know, I wrote the foreword to his book, and one of the things that I wrote is that he's doing an art form.

03:21:55.000 And it's an art form that very few people can participate in, and very few people are going to appreciate unless you participate in it.

03:22:03.000 And it's the art form of the maximized life.

03:22:06.000 It's the art form of the grind for the grind's sake.

03:22:11.000 And if you can gaze into it and just...

03:22:17.000 Separate yourself from your – that's one of the things that people want to do when they see a person like a Goggins or a Jocko or a Cam Haynes.

03:22:24.000 They want to compare themselves and oftentimes they come up short.

03:22:30.000 They're unfavorably comparing their life to this person and they realize that this person is more disciplined than me.

03:22:35.000 This person is—they're doing things that I just—I'll fall short some days, and they don't fall short. 0.99

03:22:41.000 They just keep fucking grinding. 1.00

03:22:44.000 They keep fucking grinding. 1.00

03:22:46.000 And I think it's a performance. 1.00

03:22:47.000 I think it's like a—it's a wild— Form of art because it's the it's a conquest over the mind the conquest over laziness and procrastination and and That little that little voice in your head. 0.94

03:23:01.000 It's like you don't have to get up today You don't have to do it today Not one of my favorite things that Goggins says you sometimes I stare at my shoes for a half hour before I put on those motherfuckers But I always do I think you've recently been posting about that. 0.92

03:23:21.000 Very much that's the battle with that voice. 0.97

03:23:24.000 I think he posted something about not even having a conversation with that voice. 1.00

03:23:29.000 Fuck that voice. 1.00

03:23:31.000 Don't think. 1.00

03:23:32.000 Stop thinking. 1.00

03:23:33.000 Thinking is dumb. 1.00

03:23:35.000 Just do it. 1.00

03:23:39.000 Yeah, that's only...

03:23:40.000 Whenever I've done, especially physical stuff, but also just work stuff, the best way to do something really difficult is just to do it.

03:23:49.000 There's no thinking.

03:23:51.000 You can't have a way out.

03:23:52.000 Yeah, cut off.

03:23:54.000 And that was the quitting... 1.00

03:23:57.000 I've quit a few times in my life, just like on stupid shit. 1.00

03:24:01.000 And I've realized that if you quit once, even on a small thing, like that opens the door. 1.00

03:24:07.000 Then you know that you can quit.

03:24:09.000 Those little demons. 1.00

03:24:11.000 Those little demons come and talk. 1.00

03:24:12.000 Lex! 0.99

03:24:14.000 Let's take a nap!

03:24:16.000 This is the last time I'm quitting on a run.

03:24:19.000 I quit when I was doing...

03:24:20.000 I decided with myself like Three years ago, I'd run a marathon just for fun.

03:24:25.000 And then I quit when I was at 22 miles.

03:24:28.000 I remember I was shivering really cold.

03:24:32.000 And then I remember thinking, like, why am I doing this? 1.00

03:24:34.000 This is stupid. 0.99

03:24:37.000 And for months after, I realized I just gave myself an out. 1.00

03:24:42.000 Like, I decided I'm going to do a marathon.

03:24:45.000 And I stopped because I was shivering and I convinced myself...

03:24:49.000 You went four miles.

03:24:50.000 Yeah.

03:24:50.000 And I was thinking, like, I called an Uber.

03:24:54.000 Wow.

03:24:55.000 So I was just sitting there.

03:24:56.000 I was like, this is right.

03:24:58.000 This is fine.

03:24:59.000 This is fine.

03:25:00.000 I got 22 miles.

03:25:01.000 This is fine.

03:25:02.000 Still impressive.

03:25:03.000 It's still impressive.

03:25:04.000 And 22 miles is a lot.

03:25:05.000 Most people don't run 22 miles.

03:25:07.000 And then it stayed with me for months.

03:25:09.000 It still stays with me.

03:25:11.000 And then you realize, no.

03:25:13.000 Do you ever wonder, though, like the problem with that voice is the voice is never satisfied.

03:25:19.000 The voice that wants to keep going is never satisfied.

03:25:22.000 Like, you can kill yourself with that voice. 0.97

03:25:26.000 Right. 1.00

03:25:26.000 Yeah. 1.00

03:25:27.000 Yeah.

03:25:27.000 Like, you know, I did this thing in the ice bath, or I did 20 minutes in the ice bath.

03:25:33.000 You could have died there.

03:25:34.000 No.

03:25:35.000 I was okay at 20 minutes, but I was thinking of going a lot longer.

03:25:38.000 I was thinking of going a lot longer.

03:25:40.000 I was thinking of going to a place where I don't think anybody could go.

03:25:43.000 I was like, how far can you go?

03:25:45.000 How far can you go where you don't die, but you get real close?

03:25:49.000 And this was before I had the sauna set up.

03:25:51.000 I didn't have the sauna next to the ice bath yet.

03:25:53.000 Now I do, because I feel like I can go even further if I have that sauna right there.

03:25:58.000 I know I could just get out and get into that 185 degrees and warm me up real quick.

03:26:03.000 I wonder how far you can go, because I think Wim Hof has done 60 minutes in a barrel full of ice and water.

03:26:11.000 That's a long time.

03:26:12.000 If you could do 20, how come you can't do 60?

03:26:15.000 What is the number?

03:26:16.000 Like, what's the number?

03:26:18.000 Where's hypothermia come in? 1.00

03:26:20.000 Like, where are you being a pussy, and where's hypothermia? 1.00

03:26:23.000 Like, where do they meet? 1.00

03:26:25.000 One hour, 52 minutes, and 42 seconds.

03:26:28.000 Oh my god!

03:26:31.000 Oh my god!

03:26:32.000 One hour, 52 minutes, and 42 seconds.

03:26:36.000 He's got the Guinness Book of World Records for sitting in an ice bath.

03:26:41.000 Wow.

03:26:43.000 That's what I'm saying.

03:26:46.000 See?

03:26:46.000 I'm right.

03:26:47.000 But you gotta be careful. 1.00

03:26:49.000 See, like, my ability to control my body is like blue belt shit. 1.00

03:26:56.000 He's like Hicks and Gracie black belt shit. 1.00

03:26:59.000 The question is, how good are you? 1.00

03:27:02.000 How good are you at knowing how close to death you are?

03:27:06.000 Because that's important to be a black belt in. 0.97

03:27:10.000 Right.

03:27:11.000 It's the 40% for Goggins. 1.00

03:27:12.000 Like, how close are you to the Also, he's got a bunch of assholes staring at him. 1.00

03:27:19.000 That would annoy the fuck out of me. 1.00

03:27:20.000 That would probably help him because they're going to call him a pussy if he gets out. 1.00

03:27:22.000 They keep pouring ice on him, too. 1.00

03:27:25.000 I wonder what it was like.

03:27:26.000 I'd like to talk to him about what the recovery was like after he got out of it.

03:27:32.000 Is this after?

03:27:33.000 Yeah, this is him getting out.

03:27:35.000 What's that 20 on his...

03:27:38.000 This is 2011. I think this is when it...

03:27:40.000 What's he doing?

03:27:43.000 He got out. 1.00

03:27:44.000 He's doing dips and shit. 1.00

03:27:48.000 Read your poem, my friend. 0.99

03:27:50.000 Let's get this out of here.

03:27:52.000 Read your poem, my friend.

03:27:54.000 Want another drink?

03:27:55.000 You looked at that like you want some more.

03:27:57.000 Yeah, just a little bit more.

03:27:58.000 Get a little bit more here.

03:27:59.000 My neighbor is a professional country musician, John Wolfe.

03:28:05.000 He's big on tequila.

03:28:06.000 He says if you want to be a cowboy, you gotta drink tequila.

03:28:09.000 He's got an album coming out.

03:28:13.000 That sounds very specific.

03:28:15.000 Malice on one side, country musician on the other.

03:28:20.000 This is Austin life.

03:28:21.000 I love it out here.

03:28:22.000 Isn't it great?

03:28:23.000 Have you got a gun yet?

03:28:25.000 I'll give you one. 0.89

03:28:26.000 I can give you a gun.

03:28:27.000 Does a gentleman kiss and tell?

03:28:29.000 Or is that not about guns?

03:28:30.000 You can have a gun out here and tell people.

03:28:32.000 I feel like I don't want to have a lot of guns until I train.

03:28:37.000 Oh, well, let's train.

03:28:38.000 Yeah.

03:28:38.000 Come on, I'll take you out.

03:28:40.000 Invitation accepted.

03:28:41.000 I was just at Taron Tactical in LA last weekend.

03:28:44.000 Is there a similar kind of thing?

03:28:47.000 Yeah, there's a shitload of them.

03:28:49.000 I can't believe I used to even know.

03:28:51.000 There's a lot.

03:28:52.000 But I tell you, Taron is one of the best on earth.

03:28:55.000 It's amazing learning from that guy.

03:28:59.000 Okay, this is about not letting that little fire of hope, love, die.

03:29:05.000 One of the best poems ever, Bukowski.

03:29:08.000 Bluebird.

03:29:09.000 You know the poem?

03:29:10.000 Yes, I do.

03:29:11.000 Yeah.

03:29:13.000 Probably my favorite Bukowski poem.

03:29:16.000 There's a bluebird in my heart that wants to get out, but I'm too tough for him.

03:29:21.000 I say, stay in there.

03:29:23.000 I'm not going to let anybody see you.

03:29:26.000 There's a bluebird in my heart that wants to get out, but I, uh, let me take it.

03:29:36.000 Pour whiskey on him.

03:29:37.000 And inhale cigarette smoke. 0.99

03:29:39.000 And the whores and the bartenders and the grocery clerks never know that he's in there. 1.00

03:29:44.000 There's a bluebird in my heart that wants to get out. 0.98

03:29:47.000 But I'm too tough for him.

03:29:49.000 I say, stay down.

03:29:51.000 Do you want to mess me up?

03:29:53.000 You want to screw up the works?

03:29:55.000 You want to blow my book sales in Europe?

03:29:59.000 There's a bluebird in my heart that wants to get out, but I'm too clever.

03:30:03.000 I only let him out at night sometimes, when everybody's asleep.

03:30:08.000 I say, I know that you're there, so don't be sad.

03:30:12.000 Then I put him back, but he's still singing a little in there.

03:30:17.000 I haven't quite let him die, and we sleep together like that, with our secret pact.

03:30:23.000 And it's nice enough to make a man weep, but I don't weep.

03:30:28.000 Do you?

03:30:31.000 Do you Joe Rogan?

03:30:32.000 I weep all the time.

03:30:35.000 I do.

03:30:36.000 I cry mostly when I'm happy.

03:30:38.000 Yeah, I mostly cry for happy things, but that's a beautiful poem.

03:30:42.000 Do you cry?

03:30:44.000 Yes.

03:30:44.000 When do you cry?

03:30:47.000 Whenever there's a good father-son scene in a movie, like Movie Blow.

03:30:51.000 Aww.

03:30:52.000 Aww.

03:30:53.000 Anyway, it's an honor to be here.

03:30:54.000 It's an honor to be your friend.

03:30:55.000 It's an honor to be your friend.

03:30:56.000 I love you, brother.

03:30:59.000 I love you, too.

03:30:59.000 Thank you so much for having me.

03:31:00.000 I love you, too.

03:31:00.000 Thank you, everybody.

03:31:01.000 Bye-bye. 1.00

03:31:03.000 Keep it together, bitches. 1.00

The Joe Rogan Experience - August 17, 2021

Joe Rogan Experience #1696 - Lex Fridman

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Summary

Transcript