The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1735 - Peter Attia

00:00:08.000 Hello, Peter.

00:00:13.000 Hello, Joe.

00:00:14.000 Good to see you.

00:00:14.000 Likewise.

00:00:17.000 We're fucking neighbors, man. 0.99

00:00:19.000 How are you liking the move? 0.99

00:00:21.000 Loving it.

00:00:21.000 You've been here a year now, right?

00:00:23.000 A solid year?

00:00:23.000 A little over, yeah.

00:00:25.000 Loving it?

00:00:26.000 I don't know what took so long.

00:00:27.000 Yeah, it's a different world, right?

00:00:29.000 Yeah.

00:00:30.000 When you live in a place that only has a million people, it's like, oh, like, wow, this is, uh, you could do everything here.

00:00:37.000 If I'd done this three years earlier, I could have paid half as much for my house, too.

00:00:41.000 That's the other thing.

00:00:41.000 Right.

00:00:43.000 It's so smart to have done this in 2017. Well, lucky you did it then and not now, because now it's even harder.

00:00:49.000 It's harder to find a house.

00:00:51.000 It's almost impossible.

00:00:52.000 Yeah.

00:00:53.000 I mean, every person we introduce to our real estate agent says the same thing, which is like...

00:00:58.000 You have to build.

00:00:59.000 Yeah.

00:01:00.000 It's that wild, which is, I guess, good.

00:01:03.000 I don't know.

00:01:05.000 It's tricky because Google's building their...

00:01:08.000 They have this gigantic sail-looking building near the river.

00:01:12.000 Have you seen it?

00:01:13.000 Oh, yeah.

00:01:14.000 Yeah, so there's going to be a bunch of wokesters running around from that place. 1.00

00:01:18.000 They're going to have to fill that building up. 0.98

00:01:20.000 Is there a more woke corporation than Google?

00:01:24.000 Yes.

00:01:25.000 Which one?

00:01:25.000 Microsoft.

00:01:26.000 Really?

00:01:26.000 Oh, I did see that!

00:01:28.000 Did you hear that thing Ben Shapiro did?

00:01:30.000 No.

00:01:31.000 Oh my god.

00:01:32.000 I didn't hear it.

00:01:32.000 What did he do?

00:01:34.000 It's so funny that I went and listened to it again, recorded it on my phone off my computer just so I could text it to my friends.

00:01:40.000 So they had this thing where...

00:01:43.000 I saw the thing.

00:01:45.000 Where they introduced...

00:01:45.000 Everyone introduced themselves.

00:01:47.000 With their pronouns and they described themselves.

00:01:49.000 You're right.

00:01:49.000 So I would say, hi, my name is Peter Atiyah.

00:01:51.000 I'm a light-skinned guy with a shaved head wearing a green shirt.

00:01:54.000 I go by he, him.

00:01:55.000 Yeah, and you would say Caucasian probably.

00:01:58.000 Yes, yes, I would, I would, right.

00:01:59.000 But then one of the women said, before we begin, I would just like to state that our land, the land that this building sits on was actually once owned by her, you know, and she rattled off 17 tribes.

00:02:15.000 Yes.

00:02:15.000 At which point, like, my brother was like, well, just show me the title deed.

00:02:19.000 Like, is it yours or is it theirs?

00:02:20.000 Because if it's theirs, you really should give it back.

00:02:24.000 What is happening?

00:02:25.000 What's going on?

00:02:26.000 But Microsoft, which is interesting, they were never like this.

00:02:30.000 Like, all of a sudden, they went full tilt.

00:02:34.000 They just went from zero to 11. Right.

00:02:37.000 Right?

00:02:38.000 They don't have a history of, like, ads that were woke.

00:02:41.000 I don't know.

00:02:42.000 It has provided... 1.00

00:02:44.000 Like, give me some volume on this because it's so stupid. 1.00

00:02:46.000 ...and lots in store for you. 0.98

00:02:49.000 First, we want to acknowledge that the land where the Microsoft campus is situated was traditionally occupied by the Sammamish, the Duwamish, the Snoqualmie, the Suquamish, the Muckleshoot, the Snohomish,

00:03:05.000 the Tulalip, and other Coast Salish peoples since time immemorial.

00:03:10.000 A people that are still here, continuing to honor and bring to light their ancient heritage.

00:03:17.000 My name is Allison Wines.

00:03:19.000 I'm a senior program manager in our developer tools division.

00:03:22.000 I'm an Asian white female with dark brown hair wearing a red sleeveless top.

00:03:28.000 I'm watching this.

00:03:29.000 And I'm Seth Juarez, program manager in the AI Platform Group.

00:03:31.000 I'm a tall Hispanic male wearing a blue shirt, khaki pants.

00:03:34.000 Today we kick off two days of learning more about the latest solutions, exploring how these key innovations can empower you to do great things and connecting with peers around the world.

00:03:42.000 They didn't tell their pronouns.

00:03:43.000 The other folks told their pronouns.

00:03:45.000 Is that for hearing impaired people?

00:03:47.000 No, it's for visually impaired, which is the greatest irony, right? 1.00

00:03:51.000 It's like, we want the people who can't see our color to know our color.

00:03:55.000 Ooh, right.

00:03:57.000 Like, it literally is the most logically inconsistent thing you could ever have with what we think are the right values.

00:04:04.000 That's interesting.

00:04:05.000 Like, how much racism is there amongst visually impaired people?

00:04:09.000 Well, apparently there'll be more now because we get...

00:04:11.000 But, I mean, if you really stop and think about it, like, they can't make that distinction.

00:04:16.000 They can only judge people based on how the people communicate with them.

00:04:19.000 They can't look at someone and prejudge.

00:04:23.000 They're probably the least racist people alive.

00:04:25.000 Well, we're going to fix that. 1.00

00:04:29.000 But all the fucking shit about... 0.99

00:04:30.000 The thing that's ironic is she's describing all the different tribes that have owned the land. 1.00

00:04:36.000 Well, why do you think there's so many?

00:04:38.000 It's because they killed each other and stole the land from each other. 1.00

00:04:42.000 Like, what the fuck are you saying? 0.99

00:04:45.000 Michael Knowles had this conversation I watched on YouTube where this professor, this woke professor, was trying to say that we should give back land to native tribes. 0.99

00:04:56.000 And he was like, okay, but which ones?

00:04:59.000 You got to decide which ones, because the Comanche took it from the Apache, took it from the... 0.99

00:05:05.000 And he was going through the history of it.

00:05:06.000 It's like, how do you decide?

00:05:08.000 Like, do you go back, well, the Comanche took it from you, but you took it from the Navajo, but the Navajo took it from the Pawnee, and they're like, oh. 0.98

00:05:18.000 I'm going to ask her, because she'll know.

00:05:20.000 It's so exhausting.

00:05:22.000 What is happening to us?

00:05:24.000 This wokeness.

00:05:26.000 You know, it's easy to say the pendulum's going to swing the other way, and it probably will.

00:05:30.000 And my brother actually said this, and I think he's accurate.

00:05:33.000 It's not a pendulum.

00:05:34.000 It's a wrecking ball.

00:05:36.000 A pendulum implies just this benign little thing that's going to go back.

00:05:39.000 But it's not.

00:05:40.000 It's going to go.

00:05:42.000 And it's going to kill a bunch of people and ruin a bunch of lives and careers on the way back to some reasonable equilibrium.

00:05:49.000 I think the only reasonable equilibrium is mind reading software.

00:05:53.000 I really do.

00:05:54.000 I think the reasonable equilibrium is going to be something that allows us to read each other's minds so that there's no confusion whatsoever about what your intent is.

00:06:03.000 Although, did you hear the person...

00:06:05.000 I forwarded this article, so I have a group text with a bunch of friends and my brother where we just...

00:06:10.000 This is our only outlet for this insanity.

00:06:13.000 And someone wrote, actually, Jon Stewart defended Dave Chappelle after the special and said, look, his intent was X, right? 0.99

00:06:21.000 And this person, I don't remember who it was, I don't remember what, you know, it was in The Independent or something like that, wrote this whole thing saying, intent is bullshit. 0.96

00:06:29.000 Intent means nothing. 0.99

00:06:30.000 And it was so ridiculous because the argument she gave was homicide. 0.91

00:06:37.000 She's like, even if you don't mean to kill somebody, it's still manslaughter. 0.85

00:06:42.000 To which we're all at the same time like, yeah, and there's a difference between first degree, second degree, involuntary.

00:06:50.000 Like, of course intent matters.

00:06:52.000 Of course it matters.

00:06:54.000 Yeah.

00:06:54.000 But the point is there are people now arguing intent is irrelevant.

00:06:57.000 That's the dumbest thing ever because like what if someone if you can be charged with manslaughter if you get in an argument with someone like say if you are in a situation with someone and They bump into your car and you yell at them and they get in your face and take a swing at you And you knock them out and they fall and hit their head and die you can get charged with manslaughter for that That is so much different than breaking into someone's house and shooting them in the face. 0.95

00:07:22.000 It's so much different. 0.99

00:07:23.000 Like plotting out.

00:07:24.000 So the intent is everything.

00:07:26.000 Absolutely.

00:07:27.000 And the idea of communication is always, it's always, I want to express my thoughts to you so you can better understand what I'm thinking.

00:07:34.000 And we can figure out what's right and what's wrong.

00:07:37.000 We can hash things out.

00:07:38.000 We can work on a plan. 0.98

00:07:40.000 If you don't know what the fuck a person really means and you're only going by words, are we code now? 0.98

00:07:47.000 Intent doesn't matter. 0.99

00:07:48.000 Emotions don't matter.

00:07:49.000 Thoughts don't matter.

00:07:50.000 Of course it matters.

00:07:51.000 It's like the only thing that makes us human. 0.88

00:07:53.000 It's so dumb, but it's people taking advantage of what the internet provides, which is this ability to communicate and express outrage and push buttons, right?

00:08:04.000 So because we have this new ability to do this, there's a lot of bad actors that use that, that use that ability to communicate, to find things to complain about that are really not relevant. 0.96

00:08:14.000 They're not really something you should be complaining about.

00:08:17.000 And if you do complain about it, it's really because you don't have any legitimate problems in your real life.

00:08:22.000 Well, I think the other thing is there's an insecurity.

00:08:24.000 Actually, there's an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal today about this, right, which is what was the title of the article was something along the lines of why the woke can't take a joke.

00:08:34.000 And what it basically came down to was the – and this was quoting guys from like 100 years ago making the same thing when it came to jokes about religion.

00:08:42.000 And the idea was if you aren't comfortable in your position – You're going to be easily offended when somebody rattles you, when somebody pokes fun at you.

00:08:50.000 If I came here and said, oh, hunters are wankers, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, it wouldn't offend you because you're very comfortable in your position, in your beliefs, and it's like, hey, if you don't like hunting, that's cool, but that says nothing about me.

00:09:05.000 Well, it definitely wouldn't come from you because you're a hunter. 0.97

00:09:08.000 You know what I'm saying? 1.00

00:09:09.000 Like, if you came to me and said, bow hunting is bullshit, I'd be like, haha. 0.99

00:09:12.000 But if anybody said it to you, it wouldn't faze you. 0.98

00:09:15.000 Well, it wouldn't, but it would be a conversation where I would probably, if I respected that person, I would want to either defend it or explain my position.

00:09:24.000 But you wouldn't be offended is the point.

00:09:26.000 You could engage with them as opposed to throwing up a flag.

00:09:29.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:09:30.000 I mean, it's a weird thing that we're doing right now with words.

00:09:35.000 This is a strange time where we're trying to ban words, and we're trying to change the meaning of words and eliminate nuance in conversations.

00:09:44.000 And again, we're doing it because of social justice, right?

00:09:47.000 And the people that use social media to try to enact social justice, which really doesn't change.

00:09:54.000 It's not really getting anybody justice.

00:09:57.000 It's just getting the rocks off of these people that enjoy complaining, and most of them really should be doing something else.

00:10:04.000 Most of the people on Twitter should be doing something else.

00:10:07.000 I have, like, radically reduced my amount of time on Twitter. 0.97

00:10:11.000 But every now and then, I open it up, and it's like watching a fucking, like, a room that's, like, five by five, filled with 400 chickens. 0.97

00:10:21.000 And they're just squacking each other and pecking each other. 0.99

00:10:23.000 It's like, Jesus...

00:10:25.000 This is horrible. 0.94

00:10:26.000 It's so bad for your mental health. 0.74

00:10:28.000 It's just people arguing and dunking on each other all day long. 0.93

00:10:31.000 Even outside of that, my roommate from med school, who's a urologist, called me yesterday because he couldn't wait to tell me this ridiculous story.

00:10:39.000 So a colleague of his, this female urologist who's a badass surgeon, was giving a lecture to the medical school, which is common, right? 1.00

00:10:47.000 You'll always have the surgeon will come in or the doctor will come in. 0.89

00:10:50.000 And before she got up to give her lecture, the dean said to her, and I'm not making this up, this is a urologist giving a lecture to a group of medical students, said, I would appreciate it if you would not use the word penis during this lecture. 0.88

00:11:08.000 He said it before the lecture? 0.97

00:11:10.000 Yeah.

00:11:10.000 She said, it's an anatomic term.

00:11:14.000 I'm a urologist.

00:11:15.000 What would you like me to say? 0.99

00:11:18.000 And he came up with some idiotic, oh, he said, maybe you could call it male erectile tissue. 1.00

00:11:27.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:11:28.000 And she was like, well... 1.00

00:11:29.000 She's now fucking with him. 1.00

00:11:31.000 She's like... 1.00

00:11:32.000 But...

00:11:33.000 What if it's flaccid?

00:11:34.000 Wouldn't the use of mail also be kind of triggering in that sense?

00:11:37.000 I mean...

00:11:38.000 Good point.

00:11:39.000 Yeah.

00:11:39.000 I mean...

00:11:39.000 And she basically told him to piss off.

00:11:41.000 And what did this...

00:11:43.000 This guy was the dean?

00:11:44.000 The dean of the medical school.

00:11:46.000 And I assume he's a doctor as well?

00:11:49.000 He should be.

00:11:50.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:11:50.000 If he's the dean of the medical school, he would be an MD. What in the fuck is wrong with people?

00:11:56.000 One of my favorite videos is there's a communist meeting, a meeting of these student communists and they're like criticizing each other for various things and one of them gets up and tells everybody that please keep the chatter to a minimum and be respectful for people that are easily distracted And then another one gets up and they yell out to stop using gendered language because he said, 0.99

00:12:25.000 guys, can you guys please do this?

00:12:27.000 And so he gets up and says, can you stop using gendered language?

00:12:30.000 It's just like, you guys are like LARPers.

00:12:33.000 It's like live action role play.

00:12:35.000 You're playing like you're in a different dimension.

00:12:37.000 Want to hear it?

00:12:38.000 It's hilarious.

00:12:39.000 And to win socialism.

00:12:41.000 Thank you so much.

00:12:42.000 Great.

00:12:43.000 Quick point of privilege.

00:12:44.000 Quick point of personal privilege.

00:12:46.000 Guys, first of all, James Jackson, Sacramento, he, him.

00:12:49.000 I just want to say, can we please keep the chatter to a minimum?

00:12:52.000 I'm one of the people who's very, very prone to sensory overload.

00:12:56.000 There's a lot of whispering and chatter going on.

00:12:57.000 It's making it very difficult for me to focus.

00:13:00.000 Please, can we just...

00:13:00.000 I know we're all fresh and ready to go, but can we please just keep the chatter to a minimum?

00:13:04.000 It's affecting my ability to focus.

00:13:06.000 Thank you.

00:13:06.000 Thank you, comrade.

00:13:07.000 Okay, is there a speaker against name, chapter, pronoun?

00:13:11.000 Point of personal privilege?

00:13:12.000 Yes.

00:13:13.000 Please do not use gendered language to address everyone.

00:13:24.000 And she calls everyone comrades, too.

00:13:27.000 It is adorable. 1.00

00:13:28.000 These fucking kids are doomed. 1.00

00:13:31.000 They're doomed. 1.00

00:13:32.000 They're all gonna have to join the military.

00:13:33.000 There's no way to save them.

00:13:36.000 Oh my god.

00:13:37.000 It's just so weird.

00:13:38.000 It's like it happened so quick.

00:13:41.000 Yeah, that's the thing.

00:13:43.000 I keep saying to myself, where was the inflection point and how did I miss it?

00:13:47.000 Well, I didn't totally miss it because I had a lot of people on that were, you know, six years ago, seven years ago giving me warnings of, like, what's going on in the universities.

00:13:57.000 But I didn't think the spillover would be so broad that it would, like, really make its way into corporations.

00:14:06.000 And I thought, like, there would be a barrier.

00:14:09.000 Yeah, because there would be a containment sort of. 0.99

00:14:11.000 Particularly with corporations because I thought they weren't going to tolerate that shit because it's going to affect their bottom line. 0.99

00:14:15.000 But then they realize that you can sort of do what Microsoft is doing. 1.00

00:14:20.000 Placate and play to the woke.

00:14:23.000 And then it will somehow or another help you financially?

00:14:28.000 But I don't think it does. 0.99

00:14:29.000 You know, Apple's looking pretty good after that fucking commercial. 0.99

00:14:33.000 Which one? 0.99

00:14:33.000 I didn't. 0.99

00:14:34.000 The Microsoft one.

00:14:35.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:14:36.000 The Squamish and the Chumash.

00:14:38.000 Well, hey, just wait.

00:14:39.000 I'm sure they'll come up with their own version.

00:14:40.000 I don't think they will.

00:14:41.000 I don't think they'll go that far.

00:14:43.000 I mean, they're pretty woke.

00:14:45.000 But they seem a little bit more reasonable.

00:14:47.000 The craziest thing is that all of this is coming through devices that are made by slave labor. 0.99

00:14:52.000 At the end of the day, it's so hypocritical that all these people tweeting about social justice and all the wrongs of the world, you're doing it on a fucking device that's made by child slaves. 0.99

00:15:06.000 Like, sorry! 1.00

00:15:09.000 You want to buy an iPhone?

00:15:10.000 You've got to get something that's essentially made by people that are getting slave wages.

00:15:15.000 They're working 16 hours a day in a building that has nets around it to keep suicide people from jumping off the roof.

00:15:22.000 That's Foxconn.

00:15:23.000 That's where they make them.

00:15:24.000 They don't make them here.

00:15:25.000 They're not making them in Ohio with folks that are in a union that get paid great wages and benefits and can take care of their families.

00:15:32.000 Uh-uh.

00:15:34.000 No.

00:15:35.000 We want to try to keep the bottom line nice and low.

00:15:37.000 So in order for you to tweet about social justice, you have to do it on a device that's made by people that are not much better than slaves.

00:15:46.000 Not more well off.

00:15:49.000 They're really not. 1.00

00:15:50.000 It's fucked. 1.00

00:15:51.000 It's crazy that there's no outrage to that. 1.00

00:15:54.000 Well, the outrage is silent.

00:15:55.000 That's the problem.

00:15:56.000 I mean, we're all, you know, I guess I should be more vocal about it.

00:16:00.000 You should be more vocal about it.

00:16:01.000 Everybody should be more vocal about it.

00:16:02.000 Because there's no way the majority of people are looking at this and thinking it's reasonable.

00:16:06.000 No, they're not.

00:16:07.000 But we're not doing enough about it.

00:16:10.000 We're not doing anything about it.

00:16:11.000 No one has made a push to make a phone in America.

00:16:17.000 Unless there's something I don't know about.

00:16:18.000 Is there a phone made in America?

00:16:20.000 Let's see if there is a phone made in America.

00:16:23.000 I bet there is not one.

00:16:25.000 I'm willing to bet there's not one. 1.00

00:16:27.000 And if it is, it's a piece of shit. 1.00

00:16:29.000 I heard Elon's thinking of making a phone. 1.00

00:16:32.000 There's some talk of a Tesla phone.

00:16:35.000 If that happens, he might be like the only one.

00:16:38.000 If Tesla does that, they might be the only ones that could sway people from iPhones.

00:16:44.000 Yeah, I think you're right.

00:16:46.000 Right?

00:16:47.000 If anybody can, because it's hard.

00:16:48.000 Like Samsung has some amazing phones.

00:16:50.000 The cameras are incredible, but people look at that green text coming in, they're like not doing it, you know?

00:16:57.000 But if like someone like Elon convinced people to switch over to Signal, Which is probably better for everybody anyway, to have some peer-to-peer encrypted application.

00:17:09.000 Librem 5 USA. This is a Linux phone, isn't it?

00:17:15.000 Yes.

00:17:17.000 Made in the USA. Electronics with a secure supply chain.

00:17:24.000 What does that mean?

00:17:26.000 Made with a secure supply chain.

00:17:28.000 What does that mean?

00:17:28.000 If you want a smartphone built outside China and the walled gardens of Google and Apple, this may be for you, according to the register.

00:17:34.000 So it's real?

00:17:35.000 Yeah, I just Googled.

00:17:36.000 There's a...

00:17:36.000 32 gigabytes?

00:17:38.000 Get the fuck out of here. 1.00

00:17:39.000 My phone has a terabyte, you fucking idiots. 1.00

00:17:42.000 There you go. 1.00

00:17:44.000 It's the equivalent of your flip phone.

00:17:46.000 What else is in there?

00:17:47.000 It's for essential communications.

00:17:48.000 Scroll back up so I can see the stats.

00:17:50.000 Look at that.

00:17:51.000 5.7 in screen.

00:17:52.000 Okay, it's kind of small.

00:17:54.000 3 gigabytes of memory.

00:17:55.000 Piss poor.

00:17:56.000 32 gigabytes of storage. 0.97

00:17:58.000 That's terrible.

00:17:59.000 But 4,500 milliamp battery is substantial.

00:18:03.000 And replaceable.

00:18:03.000 Ooh, that's nice.

00:18:05.000 The big battery is substantial.

00:18:07.000 But that probably means that it's not water resistant if it's got a replaceable battery.

00:18:13.000 Hmm.

00:18:13.000 So pure OS is what it runs.

00:18:16.000 It would be a phone.

00:18:17.000 That's made in America. 0.97

00:18:19.000 Right.

00:18:19.000 According to this.

00:18:20.000 Hmm.

00:18:21.000 Unless there's some sneaky stuff, too.

00:18:22.000 Well, what I'm worried about is I think they said they used supply chain.

00:18:27.000 Yeah.

00:18:28.000 Secure U.S. supply chain smartphone.

00:18:31.000 You're not saying what I want you to say.

00:18:33.000 What I want you to say is everything is made in America.

00:18:36.000 All fabrication and manufacturing done at the Purism facility. 1.00

00:18:40.000 Fabrication and manufacturing.

00:18:42.000 Individual components used in the fabrication are sourced direct from the chip market.

00:18:46.000 That means they're from other countries. 0.99

00:18:48.000 We use U.S. companies with U.S. fabrication whenever possible, but that doesn't mean it's from the U.S. Most distributors are based in the U.S. Most, with the exception of Large integrated circuits that are made in a variety of countries where those companies do fabrication,

00:19:04.000 U.S., Taiwan, South Korea, Japan.

00:19:06.000 Well, those companies, at least those countries that they just listed aren't using slave labor.

00:19:11.000 As an example of NXPCBU used from their fabrication in South Korea, while we source chips made from the U.S. wherever possible, chip country of origin is not nearly as meaningful as country of board fabrication, especially when all chips are verified.

00:19:28.000 Hardware circuits that are driven by free software in the kernel.

00:19:32.000 Yeah, these kernel motherfuckers, these Linux guys, they start talking kernel and my eyes gloss over.

00:19:36.000 There's a chip shortage, too, right? 0.99

00:19:38.000 Yeah.

00:19:38.000 Whatever that means.

00:19:39.000 I don't know exactly what that means.

00:19:40.000 It means it's hard to get a car.

00:19:42.000 Yeah.

00:19:42.000 Yeah, I had a friend who was trying to buy a Ford Raptor.

00:19:45.000 He couldn't get one.

00:19:46.000 Oh, yeah.

00:19:47.000 I ordered my pickup truck.

00:19:49.000 I wanted to get one in a manual, so I had an old Tacoma, gave it to my brother-in-law.

00:19:54.000 You wanted to get a pickup truck and a manual transmission?

00:19:57.000 There's only two that are still made.

00:19:58.000 Who makes it?

00:20:00.000 Tacoma makes a limited edition Pro Sport.

00:20:02.000 Really?

00:20:02.000 And the Jeep pickup truck comes in a manual.

00:20:05.000 Oh.

00:20:06.000 Well, the Jeep kind of makes sense.

00:20:07.000 I can't believe Tacoma still does that.

00:20:09.000 Why do you want a manual pickup truck?

00:20:11.000 I want my daughter to be able to drive manual. 0.93

00:20:13.000 Oh.

00:20:14.000 And I just miss driving manual.

00:20:16.000 Really?

00:20:17.000 I grew up driving manual.

00:20:18.000 And about six years ago when all cars went to dual clutch, like when sports cars went to dual clutch, I basically get up.

00:20:24.000 So I still drive manual on the track, but I kind of miss it on the road.

00:20:27.000 And I do want my daughter to drive a manual.

00:20:29.000 I feel it'll keep her...

00:20:31.000 Well, also, it'll be texting less and screwing around less. 0.85

00:20:34.000 I hope. 0.55

00:20:35.000 Maybe not.

00:20:36.000 But anyway, the point is, I ordered the thing like six months ago, and it's always like a month away.

00:20:40.000 It'll be a month away for another year.

00:20:43.000 Yeah, I have manual cars.

00:20:45.000 I have a bunch of manual cars, but they're older cars.

00:20:47.000 Like, I have a 2007 Porsche GT3 RS. That's a manual.

00:20:51.000 The Gunther Works Porsche is a manual.

00:20:53.000 I got a 70 Chevelle.

00:20:55.000 That's a manual.

00:20:57.000 69 Camaro.

00:20:58.000 That's a manual.

00:20:59.000 I got a bunch of manual cars.

00:21:00.000 That 69 Camaro is a four-speed?

00:21:02.000 Or is it a...

00:21:02.000 No, it's a resto mod.

00:21:04.000 It's a six-speed.

00:21:05.000 Oh, okay, okay, okay.

00:21:06.000 With an 850 horsepower engine.

00:21:08.000 The 07 GT3 must be nice.

00:21:11.000 Oh, it's fun.

00:21:11.000 Yeah, it's really fun.

00:21:13.000 It's a Shark Works car, too.

00:21:15.000 Oh, yeah.

00:21:15.000 Great sound.

00:21:16.000 It's got 518 horsepower.

00:21:20.000 That's...

00:21:20.000 Because of the exhaust, it's boosting it that much?

00:21:22.000 No, they bore it out to 3.9 liters from 3.6.

00:21:26.000 Oh, okay.

00:21:26.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:21:26.000 You know Shark Works?

00:21:27.000 Of course.

00:21:28.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:21:28.000 I almost had it on mine.

00:21:30.000 Oh, really?

00:21:30.000 Yeah.

00:21:31.000 Yeah.

00:21:31.000 They make awesome stuff.

00:21:33.000 And...

00:21:35.000 They're a big fan of manuals.

00:21:37.000 They don't really particularly like dual clutch cars either.

00:21:40.000 So they particularly like Gen 1 and Gen...

00:21:43.000 997, Gen 1 and Gen 2 RSs that you could really juice up.

00:21:50.000 Yeah.

00:21:50.000 I mean, you know, it's funny.

00:21:53.000 I wanted to get a GT3 in the 992.1, and the Porsche dealer here said, no problem.

00:22:00.000 We have an allocation.

00:22:01.000 We can get you one, but you're going to spend $75,000 over MSRP. And I was like, wait a minute.

00:22:06.000 You're going to charge me?

00:22:07.000 The dealer is going to charge me $75,000 over the MSRP? No chance.

00:22:11.000 That's so much more.

00:22:13.000 You can buy a 991.2 RS for less. 0.99

00:22:19.000 Yeah, that's dumb. 0.79

00:22:20.000 Yeah, I'll give you a taste. 0.99

00:22:21.000 You can get a taste.

00:22:22.000 You get a little bit.

00:22:23.000 You can't ask for $75,000. 1.00

00:22:25.000 That's just hoping that someone's a rich asshole and they're just willing to throw the money down to have it. 0.99

00:22:31.000 But you can get them from other states. 0.99

00:22:34.000 I actually called three other dealers and the lowest premium I was getting was 40k over.

00:22:41.000 Really?

00:22:42.000 But I was just on principle.

00:22:43.000 I'm like, I'm not doing it.

00:22:45.000 It's the same reason there's certain watches I just won't buy because I'm not willing to pay the premium over when it's based on a false scarcity.

00:22:53.000 Right, right.

00:22:53.000 It just irks me.

00:22:55.000 The watch market is very weird with that.

00:22:57.000 There's some watches that you see them and you're like, why is that $100,000?

00:23:01.000 Help me out.

00:23:02.000 I have sold more watches in the last few years, and I'm wearing like a $100 G-Shock that I love.

00:23:10.000 Are you trying to get away from the watch fetish?

00:23:14.000 No, I mean, I have...

00:23:16.000 Do you drink caffeine?

00:23:17.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:23:19.000 No, I mean, I think I just...

00:23:22.000 I had too many, and I wouldn't wear them all, and it just didn't make sense.

00:23:25.000 And so I kind of...

00:23:27.000 I still have a lot of old watches that I really like, like kind of 60s, 50s.

00:23:33.000 Oh, really?

00:23:33.000 You collect them?

00:23:34.000 Yeah.

00:23:34.000 What do you got?

00:23:35.000 What kind do you like?

00:23:36.000 So I like Rolexes in that vintage, right?

00:23:39.000 So kind of the Daytona, the no-date subs, and the GMTs in that first iteration.

00:23:45.000 So the gilt version, which is kind of the yellow, like it has the brighter marks on it.

00:23:52.000 So I got a few years ago, before they got really silly in pricing, A guy that I work with, his name's Andrew Scheer in New York, who does just vintage Rolex.

00:24:02.000 He calls me up, and I had told him for about a year and a half, I wanted a certain, I wanted a Gilt 1675 GMT. And he, I remember I was getting on a plane, I was at Newark just leaving, and he goes, sends me a picture, and I'm like, Dude, that's like new old stock.

00:24:16.000 He goes, yeah.

00:24:17.000 It was like some guy bought it in Hong Kong in 1967. It sat in a shoebox till now.

00:24:23.000 Wow.

00:24:23.000 So it doesn't have any patina, no fade, no nothing?

00:24:26.000 It actually still has a little bit of a patina just based on how old it is, but it's in perfect condition.

00:24:33.000 I love that watch.

00:24:34.000 You know what I don't like?

00:24:36.000 I like some of the watches, but I don't like that they're doing this.

00:24:39.000 They're doing a faux patina on some watches.

00:24:41.000 Yeah.

00:24:42.000 It's so weird.

00:24:43.000 I got the Omega.

00:24:44.000 I'm a big Omega fan.

00:24:46.000 And I got the James Bond No Time to Die.

00:24:49.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:24:49.000 Did you get the one with the metal bracelet?

00:24:51.000 Yeah.

00:24:51.000 Yeah, I just got that too.

00:24:52.000 It's amazing.

00:24:53.000 It's a beautiful watch.

00:24:54.000 I'm a big fan of their...

00:24:56.000 I'm actually wearing one of their dime watches.

00:25:00.000 But that one, they used that faux patina, and I'm like, why did you do that?

00:25:04.000 This is one thing that kept it from being perfect.

00:25:07.000 It is beautiful.

00:25:08.000 I love tropical dials, and that's what makes that watch to me so beautiful.

00:25:12.000 Tropical?

00:25:12.000 What do you mean?

00:25:13.000 Like that brown color.

00:25:14.000 Oh, that's tropical?

00:25:15.000 Yeah, so tropical is like kind of one of the most sought-after thing in a Daytona.

00:25:20.000 If you get an old Daytona with a tropical face, they're hard to find, but they're gorgeous.

00:25:26.000 Yeah.

00:25:27.000 Hmm.

00:25:28.000 Watches are weird because there's something about it that appeals to men more than it does to women.

00:25:35.000 I know there's a lot of women that are watch collectors, but it seems if I'm paying attention to the internet and watching videos, it's a male-dominated jewelry thing. 1.00

00:25:45.000 Totally.

00:25:46.000 Which is the only male-dominated jewelry thing that I could ever really think about.

00:25:52.000 I don't think there's another one.

00:25:54.000 Because it's weird, because it's a jewelry thing, but it's also a mechanical thing.

00:25:58.000 There's something about the engineering of the devices.

00:26:01.000 I think that's why.

00:26:02.000 It is our jewelry, but the mechanics of it are beautiful.

00:26:07.000 If you like Omega, which I'm also very partial to Omega, The Ed White re-release Speedmaster 321 caliber is unbelievable.

00:26:18.000 Which one's that?

00:26:18.000 It's my favorite Omega.

00:26:19.000 What does it look like?

00:26:20.000 I have a couple of Speedmasters.

00:26:21.000 So it looks just like a pretty regular Speedmaster, except that it has the caliber 321, which was the up to 1969 caliber.

00:26:29.000 So this is the Moonwatch.

00:26:31.000 So after 1969, they discontinued the caliber 321 and they went to the caliber 1861, which is what they basically rode up until a few years ago.

00:26:41.000 But the purist loves that 321. The problem is if you go back and buy one from the 60s, I have one.

00:26:47.000 I have an old one as well.

00:26:48.000 They're not the most reliable in the world.

00:26:50.000 They're hard to service, you know, all sorts of things.

00:26:52.000 So when they redid this, they had to basically, they didn't even have the original drawings for it anymore.

00:26:58.000 They had to go back and look at existing watches and kind of extrapolate from the wear in the existing watches to what the movement did.

00:27:04.000 Oh, wow.

00:27:05.000 That's amazing.

00:27:06.000 So they had to back engineer it?

00:27:07.000 Yep.

00:27:07.000 They had to reverse engineer it.

00:27:08.000 Is that it right there?

00:27:09.000 Yep.

00:27:10.000 So there you go.

00:27:11.000 That's pretty.

00:27:12.000 I love watching those little things move around because you realize that they figured this out in the 1800s.

00:27:18.000 Yeah.

00:27:19.000 Or probably even before, right, with pocket watches?

00:27:21.000 Yeah.

00:27:21.000 When was the first pocket watch?

00:27:23.000 That's a good question.

00:27:24.000 Let's take a guess before we Google it.

00:27:27.000 Jamie, what do you think?

00:27:28.000 First pocket watch.

00:27:29.000 With mechanics that work like that?

00:27:31.000 Yeah.

00:27:32.000 Wind-up.

00:27:33.000 They were all wind-up ones.

00:27:35.000 I'm going to go old 15... 0.58

00:27:36.000 No, let's say before that, so like 1450-ish.

00:27:40.000 Really?

00:27:41.000 They had to use something like that probably for maneuvering the oceans, I'm guessing.

00:27:45.000 How would they even agree to what time it was?

00:27:49.000 I don't have any idea. 0.99

00:27:51.000 Before they agreed to what time it was, no one had a fucking clue. 0.98

00:27:57.000 Right? 0.98

00:27:57.000 They're using sundials and things like that. 0.98

00:27:59.000 There was a time in history where no one agreed what time it was.

00:28:03.000 Well, like, how old's Big Ben? 0.96

00:28:04.000 Like, that's probably the first agreement, because they're like, hey, that's the fucking time right there. 0.97

00:28:08.000 Right, that's a good point. 0.98

00:28:09.000 Big Ben.

00:28:10.000 I'm going to guess Big Ben is from 1800. All right, I was not too far off.

00:28:15.000 I'm going to go a little earlier.

00:28:17.000 Really?

00:28:17.000 Okay, hit me with it.

00:28:18.000 1510. 1510 is the first watch?

00:28:20.000 German watchmaker Peter Heinlein.

00:28:23.000 So he's like, this is the time...

00:28:25.000 By utilizing...

00:28:26.000 It's here!

00:28:27.000 This is it!

00:28:28.000 He's like decided.

00:28:30.000 He's the first guy to decide what the time is. 1.00

00:28:32.000 Because everybody else is like, well, fuck you. 1.00

00:28:34.000 I don't think that's the time. 1.00

00:28:36.000 Like, you could decide.

00:28:38.000 Right?

00:28:38.000 If you go back to caveman days, there's no time.

00:28:41.000 And then as...

00:28:42.000 Like, no one has any idea what the time it is.

00:28:44.000 But as time moves forward, and we get closer and closer to modern era, there had to come a point in time where they decided, alright, this is what noon is.

00:28:54.000 Right here.

00:28:55.000 Yeah.

00:28:56.000 I love the way in which, like, how accurately we can record time now, right, with atomic clocks.

00:29:03.000 That's kind of mind-boggling to me.

00:29:04.000 Is it confusing us, though?

00:29:06.000 Because we're, instead of looking at actual time, which is a thing that's existing right now only, there is the past and there is the future, but actual real time is just this.

00:29:21.000 You can measure how long things take, but is it confusing us as to what time actually is?

00:29:30.000 Because what we're really doing is measuring time on devices.

00:29:33.000 We're measuring seconds that go by, hours that go by, minutes that go by. 0.99

00:29:37.000 It's not giving you an excuse to not be prompt, but it's really kind of bullshit. 0.98

00:29:42.000 Well, I don't know, but I will say this. 0.97

00:29:45.000 Not having a watch on feels great sometimes.

00:29:47.000 Not having a phone with you feels great.

00:29:49.000 And, you know, being in nature.

00:29:51.000 Like, when you're hunting, I do wear a watch, but only because I want to know where we are in relation to sunup and sundown.

00:29:58.000 Yes, me too.

00:29:59.000 But outside of that, like, you have no care in the world.

00:30:02.000 You care about wind.

00:30:04.000 You care about scent.

00:30:06.000 You care about other things.

00:30:07.000 Did I tell you about the mountain lion I saw?

00:30:09.000 No.

00:30:10.000 I didn't tell you.

00:30:10.000 When we were in Utah, I saw a giant mountain lion.

00:30:14.000 Fucking giant. 0.99

00:30:16.000 Like as big as me. 1.00

00:30:17.000 It was huge.

00:30:18.000 It was huge.

00:30:19.000 How far from you?

00:30:20.000 We were in a truck, luckily, and it was about 30 yards away.

00:30:23.000 My friend Colton spotted it.

00:30:25.000 We were driving, and he hits the brakes. 1.00

00:30:28.000 He goes, that fucking mountain lion! 0.99

00:30:29.000 And I'm like, where? 1.00

00:30:30.000 And then I see its eyes.

00:30:31.000 Because it was starting to get dark out, but it was still light, and its eyes were glowing. 0.99

00:30:36.000 And I put up the binoculars to take a look at it closer through the windshield, and I was like, holy fuck. 0.99

00:30:42.000 It was huge. 0.99

00:30:44.000 I did not know they got that big.

00:30:45.000 Oh, they get to 200 pounds.

00:30:47.000 The one that I saw previously, I saw one in Santa Barbara, and it was probably like 70 pounds, 60 pounds.

00:30:55.000 It was pretty small.

00:30:55.000 And then I saw another one in Colorado, but it was so brief.

00:30:58.000 It was hard to tell, and that one seemed the same size.

00:31:01.000 It seemed like a smaller juvenile one.

00:31:03.000 This was not a juvenile.

00:31:04.000 This was a 100% full-grown tom.

00:31:07.000 With a big old pumpkin head and huge paws.

00:31:11.000 And the forearms were wild.

00:31:13.000 Like, that was the weirdest thing.

00:31:14.000 Like, looking at his...

00:31:15.000 His forearms were as big as my thighs. 1.00

00:31:17.000 I was like, fuck, look at this fucking thing. 1.00

00:31:20.000 Elk killer. 1.00

00:31:20.000 It was just looking at us, you know, and it was under a tree. 1.00

00:31:25.000 And, you know, we opened up the car door and tried to, like, get film of it and look at it closer and it took off.

00:31:32.000 And it was so big.

00:31:35.000 Because I was thinking, like, if I was out there on my own, you know, because people do that all the time.

00:31:39.000 They hunt solo, and they don't carry a weapon.

00:31:42.000 You know, like, Colton didn't have a weapon.

00:31:44.000 I only had a bow and arrow. 1.00

00:31:46.000 And here's this giant-ass fucking cat. 1.00

00:31:49.000 Like, if we zigged when we should have zagged, and all of a sudden we're on top of this thing, and it decides to pounce on us, fuck. 1.00

00:31:57.000 That better be a good tri-pin. 0.99

00:31:59.000 Yeah, did you see that video of the guy who shot the mountain lion in the face?

00:32:02.000 No.

00:32:06.000 Jamie.

00:32:07.000 He's hunting, too.

00:32:08.000 And he's got a Glock out, and he's telling this mountain lion, hey, back up, back up.

00:32:12.000 And it's not even, it's a smaller one, like a 90-pound one. 1.00

00:32:15.000 But he's saying to it, hey, fuck off. 1.00

00:32:18.000 Get out of here. 1.00

00:32:19.000 And then it makes a move on him.

00:32:21.000 And, you know, he drops his phone.

00:32:23.000 You hear a crack, crack.

00:32:24.000 You hear one shot, one shot.

00:32:27.000 And then you see the thing twitching on the ground.

00:32:30.000 It's got a bullet hole in its face.

00:32:32.000 Wow. 0.99

00:32:32.000 Yeah, but doesn't have that gun he's fucked because occasionally they will jump on people and that's the situation is this guy was in like look at this Give me some volume rewind it and give me the volume because the when it's looking at its face you get back look at that you get back You get back You get back You get back Back! 0.99

00:33:03.000 No! 0.96

00:33:05.000 No! 1.00

00:33:10.000 Motherf***er. 1.00

00:33:10.000 I just had to shoot this f***ing mountain lion. 1.00

00:33:14.000 They f***ing pounced at me and I popped it in the f***ing face. 1.00

00:33:19.000 Holy s***. 1.00

00:33:21.000 Holy s***. 0.98

00:33:23.000 That is wild, right? 0.99

00:33:24.000 Oh my god.

00:33:26.000 Oh my god.

00:33:28.000 Oh my god.

00:33:30.000 At least he's got like 100% proof of self-defense.

00:33:34.000 I mean that thing was like 10 feet from him.

00:33:36.000 Wow.

00:33:36.000 And apparently it went, look at that, that's where he shot it.

00:33:40.000 Right through the face.

00:33:43.000 Apparently it was about to pounce.

00:33:47.000 What do you do?

00:33:49.000 You gotta do that, man.

00:33:50.000 Yeah, but I don't bring a pistol with me when I want.

00:33:53.000 Oh, no.

00:33:53.000 But, I mean, you know, it's funny.

00:33:55.000 I never thought about it except if you're hunting boars, right?

00:33:57.000 That's the one time when you're like, you have to have a gun with you if you're shooting a boar.

00:34:01.000 They will charge you.

00:34:02.000 Yeah.

00:34:03.000 And they'll charge you if you hit them, they'll charge you if you don't, like if you're bow hunting.

00:34:08.000 I was watching a show once where the guy was packing, and he shot a pig, a wild boar, with a bow and arrow, and it came charging full clip at him with the arrow hanging out of its body, and he had to shoot it.

00:34:22.000 Speaking of shooting, this range down the street from you is incredible.

00:34:26.000 Which range?

00:34:26.000 The, whatever, the Austin Gun Club.

00:34:29.000 Oh, the range.

00:34:30.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:34:31.000 The range, the indoor range.

00:34:32.000 Yeah, it's great.

00:34:33.000 Yeah, that place is really good.

00:34:34.000 Yeah, I just went there for the first time today.

00:34:36.000 Yeah, it's really good.

00:34:37.000 Yeah, we have a corporate membership there.

00:34:39.000 It's nice.

00:34:40.000 Everybody can go, go, bang, bang.

00:34:42.000 It's good.

00:34:43.000 You know, it's like shooting guns is something you really have to do on a fairly regular basis.

00:34:49.000 What do you think the frequency is?

00:34:50.000 Because it's not as frequent as archery.

00:34:53.000 I mean, archery, if I go two days without shooting my bow, I notice a difference.

00:34:57.000 Really?

00:34:58.000 Yeah.

00:35:00.000 What do you figure it is?

00:35:01.000 Like, you got to do it once a month, twice a month?

00:35:03.000 I think once a month is reasonable as long as you really do take time and you make a lot of shots and you have good form and you're really paying attention to what you're doing, you know?

00:35:14.000 I think there's just too many people that have a gun and think that they're safe and they don't know how to use it at all.

00:35:20.000 They don't practice with it.

00:35:22.000 Like, it's really kind of strange.

00:35:23.000 You could just buy a gun.

00:35:25.000 Like, you don't really have to have...

00:35:28.000 Like, to get a concealed carry permit, you have to show competency.

00:35:31.000 But you don't really have to do that for a regular...

00:35:33.000 I mean, the first time I bought a gun was in 1994 when I first moved to California.

00:35:40.000 And I just walked into a gun shop.

00:35:42.000 And I said I want to buy a pistol.

00:35:44.000 So I bought a Glock.

00:35:45.000 I still own it.

00:35:46.000 And I paid for it.

00:35:48.000 They did a background check.

00:35:49.000 I think it was like a few days.

00:35:51.000 I got the gun.

00:35:52.000 That's it. 1.00

00:35:53.000 You don't have to know shit. 0.99

00:35:54.000 I mean, I shot it at that range, but you don't really have to know much. 0.99

00:35:58.000 And when I shot it at the range, nobody taught me how to shoot it.

00:36:01.000 I just shot it. 0.90

00:36:02.000 I'm just like, okay, you put the bullets here, and this is where the trigger is, and point it down there. 0.98

00:36:08.000 Okay, bang, bang, bang. 0.78

00:36:09.000 And now, at least with YouTube, there are some people out there putting really good content out where you can, if you're a newbie, you can say, okay, well, show me what's the right technique, what are the mistakes that people make here, and stuff like that.

00:36:22.000 But yeah, back in the day, I mean...

00:36:23.000 You really should get, I think you should get one-on-one instruction if you can afford it.

00:36:28.000 I don't know how much it costs to get someone to teach you how to shoot a gun correctly, but someone should show you how to hold it, you know...

00:36:33.000 Where to place your hand, and where you should put the pressure, and which hand should be relaxed, and how to line your sights up correctly.

00:36:41.000 That's something that's a little tricky to do in a video, you know?

00:36:46.000 For me, the long range stuff is, I just bought an Accuracy International 300 Norma mag, like super, super long range rifle.

00:36:55.000 And for me, which, and it's actually too big a gun for hunting.

00:36:59.000 So it's not, it's really, it serves, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:37:02.000 It's just a little too long.

00:37:03.000 Like the long barrel?

00:37:04.000 It's just too heavy a gun to take into the field.

00:37:08.000 Amazing weapon for hunting because the.300 Norma mag is a ridiculous caliber.

00:37:13.000 Like that'll knock an elk over if you hit it in the shoulder.

00:37:16.000 At a thousand yards.

00:37:17.000 Wow.

00:37:18.000 But this is a gun that you can work your way out to shooting a mile, you know, shooting a dinner plate at a mile.

00:37:23.000 Which is just, again, that to me is the joy, right?

00:37:25.000 Like, that's the fun, is learning the wind and learning the technique.

00:37:30.000 Because it is in the sense like archery.

00:37:33.000 You know, in archery, if you can't control the pressure of your hand on the riser, you know, at 20 yards it doesn't matter, but at 80 yards it matters everything.

00:37:43.000 Yeah.

00:37:43.000 And it's the same thing with those guns.

00:37:46.000 If you're not on the clavicle the right way and your face is not on this the right way and your trigger isn't pulling back perfectly, all of that stuff just amplifies mistakes.

00:37:58.000 So for me, that's the most fun thing, is those otherwise not particularly helpful long-range rifles.

00:38:04.000 Yeah, when you really get into archery, long-range shows you where your mistakes are.

00:38:09.000 I was talking to Lee Lukoski.

00:38:11.000 And he was saying that, for people who don't know, Lee Lukoski is a very famous bow hunter.

00:38:16.000 And he was telling me that if he shoots 100 arrows, 99 of them are at 100 yards.

00:38:23.000 Wow.

00:38:24.000 He says, that's how you find out where your form is.

00:38:28.000 And he goes, and that's how it's repeatable.

00:38:30.000 Because he shot an elk at a pretty far distance this year.

00:38:34.000 And he was explaining it to me.

00:38:35.000 He said, I have a whole process that I do when I shoot in the field versus when I shoot at a target.

00:38:43.000 Like, it's the same process.

00:38:44.000 So he just does exactly what he does at home, and he's done it so many times that he's very confident that if he does have an 80-plus yard shot on an elk, that he can make it perfectly.

00:38:56.000 What is your comfort range in the field, not at home?

00:39:00.000 I've shot a lot of elk at 60 yards, 67 yards.

00:39:04.000 I shot one at 75 yards.

00:39:07.000 That was the one in California, right?

00:39:08.000 Yeah.

00:39:08.000 Yeah, that guy was bedded for a while.

00:39:10.000 Yeah.

00:39:11.000 But I was relaxed and I had been shooting at 75 yards a lot.

00:39:16.000 And I felt comfortable.

00:39:17.000 Like, there was no wind.

00:39:19.000 I was comfortable.

00:39:20.000 And, you know, an elk is a large target.

00:39:22.000 If I was gonna shoot a deer, it'd be significantly less.

00:39:26.000 I shot an axis once at 69, but it was a good situation. 1.00

00:39:31.000 He was 100% broadside and not at all jumpy.

00:39:35.000 I mean, I had no clue I was there.

00:39:37.000 But in retrospect, I still think that's a bit...

00:39:39.000 I don't know that I would take that shot again.

00:39:41.000 69 doesn't leave you much margin for error on a deer.

00:39:43.000 They're not that big.

00:39:44.000 The axis deer especially.

00:39:45.000 Yeah, what do they weigh, 120 pounds, like a big one?

00:39:48.000 I mean, the biggest one I've ever shot was 200. 200, really?

00:39:51.000 Yeah.

00:39:52.000 He was a beast.

00:39:53.000 Oh, wow. 0.74

00:39:53.000 What island was this? 0.74

00:39:55.000 Maui.

00:39:55.000 Oh, no kidding.

00:39:56.000 I've never been hunting on Maui.

00:39:58.000 You gotta come, man.

00:39:59.000 I think it's 10 times better than one eye.

00:40:01.000 Really?

00:40:02.000 Why?

00:40:03.000 The terrain.

00:40:04.000 You're up on the volcano, right?

00:40:06.000 That makes sense.

00:40:07.000 Haleakala is, I mean, the density of deer is not as high as lanai, of course, but the terrain is insane.

00:40:15.000 And the bucks are huge.

00:40:16.000 Like, there are lots of 30-inch bucks out there.

00:40:19.000 Oh, wow.

00:40:19.000 Well, the density in Lanai is almost like a problem.

00:40:23.000 Right.

00:40:23.000 It's like too many eyes on you.

00:40:24.000 It's just too weird.

00:40:26.000 It's also too weird.

00:40:27.000 I kind of feel like you could just close your eyes and draw back and launch into the sky and you might hit something.

00:40:35.000 You know?

00:40:36.000 I mean, there's so many deer out there.

00:40:38.000 For people who don't know what Lanai is, it's a very small island in the Hawaiian Islands chain and it has 30,000 deer on it, which is so crazy to say.

00:40:49.000 Right.

00:40:49.000 I think...

00:40:50.000 3,000 people.

00:40:51.000 That's right.

00:40:52.000 And Molokai has 70,000.

00:40:55.000 What?

00:40:56.000 It's crazy.

00:40:57.000 That's insane.

00:40:59.000 Yeah.

00:40:59.000 And Maui has the most, I believe.

00:41:01.000 But obviously it's a bigger island.

00:41:03.000 Maui has more than 70,000?

00:41:04.000 I used to know the numbers for each of the three islands, but I think Maui might have like 100,000.

00:41:10.000 Are they as jumpy in Maui as they are in Lanai?

00:41:13.000 Because in Lanai, they're so pressured, because they hunt them so often.

00:41:16.000 I mean, that's the funny thing with them.

00:41:19.000 Even when you're up in Haleakala, they're still jumpy, and I keep thinking, like, why?

00:41:25.000 They haven't been around humans, but their evolution is so strong.

00:41:29.000 I guess when you spend half a billion years getting away from tigers, You don't turn that off in 50 years.

00:41:37.000 No. 1.00

00:41:38.000 I mean, that is the fucking animal, right? 1.00

00:41:40.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:41:40.000 If there's one animal that you evolved to get away from and you have to be fast, I mean, the way they can jump a string is so crazy. 1.00

00:41:47.000 Like, the bow goes off and they hear the sound and they're gone.

00:41:50.000 It's amazing.

00:41:51.000 It's so weird to see them move like that.

00:41:53.000 It's like, how does... 0.96

00:41:54.000 The central nervous system must be just so fucking tight and wired like a drum. 0.99

00:41:59.000 Right. 0.99

00:42:01.000 They need some stress management techniques.

00:42:03.000 I know.

00:42:03.000 But it's weird because they seem so peaceful until that moment.

00:42:07.000 They're like immediate to 100. Because they don't seem jumpy until they jump.

00:42:14.000 Yeah, it's amazing.

00:42:15.000 Well, it's like, what else are they going to do?

00:42:17.000 This is the problem with Australia.

00:42:19.000 It's the problem with New Zealand.

00:42:22.000 In Australia, they've made giant mistakes with that where they brought in other animals to try to mitigate the...

00:42:30.000 The number of, you know, this or that, and then those animals wind up wiping out native populations of nesting birds, like cats, like feral cats in Australia.

00:42:39.000 It's a giant problem.

00:42:40.000 What the Axis deer are doing in Hawaii is brutal for Hawaii. 1.00

00:42:45.000 It's crazy.

00:42:45.000 It's just killing that state.

00:42:48.000 And what can they do other than hire people to shoot them?

00:42:52.000 I mean, at this point, you know, Jake Mews, my friend who runs that company out there that's Maui Nui Venison, these guys that are making, you know, commercializing, they have a USDA grade commercial program for making axis deer.

00:43:05.000 And they're about as efficient as they get.

00:43:08.000 He does not think they're...

00:43:09.000 They're not even going to be able to flatten the population curve till 2030. Whoa!

00:43:14.000 So it's going to continue growing till 2030. Are they just making those venison sticks?

00:43:19.000 Are they selling steaks and roasts?

00:43:21.000 Everything.

00:43:21.000 Chef boxes, everything.

00:43:22.000 Oh, that's great.

00:43:24.000 How does someone...

00:43:24.000 Let's tell...

00:43:25.000 How does someone get a hold of that?

00:43:26.000 Because that is a great opportunity for you to get actual, real, legitimate wild game.

00:43:32.000 And it happens to be one of the most delicious wild games.

00:43:34.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:43:35.000 I mean, if you go to...

00:43:36.000 I assume...

00:43:36.000 And by the way, I should just disclose I'm an investor, so...

00:43:39.000 But Maui Nui Venison, if you just...

00:43:41.000 I think you just order online.

00:43:42.000 How do you spell that?

00:43:42.000 Maui Nui Nui Venison.

00:43:45.000 See if you could find that.

00:43:46.000 Yeah, see what...

00:43:47.000 Yeah.

00:43:48.000 This is, I mean, I can't recommend venison from Axis Deer enough.

00:43:53.000 It is so delicious.

00:43:55.000 Okay, so this is nice.

00:43:57.000 I usually get boxes for friends as a gift when they're being introduced to Wild Game.

00:44:02.000 I'm like, Oh, they have bone broth too.

00:44:04.000 Dude, it's insane.

00:44:05.000 The bone broth is next level.

00:44:08.000 This is amazing.

00:44:09.000 The company that we had do the analysis on the protein content repeated the analysis twice because they didn't believe how much protein it had in it. 0.99

00:44:18.000 25 grams of protein in a fucking bone broth? 0.99

00:44:22.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:44:23.000 Whoa.

00:44:24.000 They were like, yeah, yeah, this is 2x every other animal we've ever seen.

00:44:27.000 There must be a mistake.

00:44:28.000 They just repeated it over and over again.

00:44:30.000 Look how delicious that must be.

00:44:32.000 Let me see that.

00:44:33.000 I'll tell you, you use this as your stock and make rice?

00:44:37.000 It's insane.

00:44:38.000 Oh, nice. 1.00

00:44:40.000 How much does that shit cost? 1.00

00:44:41.000 I don't know. 1.00

00:44:42.000 I just bought it as part of it.

00:44:43.000 Oh, 125 bucks.

00:44:44.000 For 8 bags.

00:44:45.000 Oh, 8 bags.

00:44:45.000 Oh, 15 ounces each.

00:44:47.000 Oh, that's nice.

00:44:49.000 I'm in!

00:44:50.000 So, but what's amazing about this, and I think this is why it tastes so good, it tastes better than when you and I shoot one.

00:44:56.000 Because when you and I shoot an axis deer, even if it's a perfect shot, that animal still takes a minute to die.

00:45:01.000 In other words, there's still a minute of stress in its life.

00:45:04.000 Oh, these guys, they headshot them.

00:45:06.000 They headshot them at night.

00:45:07.000 So they're using night vision.

00:45:09.000 They're 200 yards away.

00:45:11.000 Silencers. 0.58

00:45:12.000 Yep, it's...

00:45:13.000 And it's, the animals are so unstressed that if there's like, they'll shoot a group, there'll be 12 of them there, right?

00:45:18.000 And they'll have the sniper.

00:45:19.000 He shoots one. 0.97

00:45:21.000 Billy goes down.

00:45:22.000 The other 11 don't even move.

00:45:23.000 Wow.

00:45:24.000 Yeah.

00:45:25.000 Where'd Billy go?

00:45:26.000 I don't know.

00:45:26.000 Boom!

00:45:27.000 And the next guy gets it.

00:45:27.000 Billy's taking a nap.

00:45:28.000 Yeah.

00:45:29.000 Wow.

00:45:30.000 And then they process on site.

00:45:31.000 So there's a USDA inspector with the sniper for every single shot.

00:45:36.000 Every carcass is examined. 0.86

00:45:37.000 It has to be a perfect kill.

00:45:39.000 That's a great way to get meat. 0.50

00:45:41.000 It really is.

00:45:42.000 If you want to think about an ethical way for you to consume meat, if you're one of those people that doesn't want to buy factory farmed meat, get some of that.

00:45:50.000 I mean, next to hunting, that is about as good as you can get.

00:45:53.000 Do you find your taste for non-wild game has gone down?

00:45:59.000 Well, when I eat a fatty piece of domestic beef, I think of it like a sloppy, lazy person.

00:46:07.000 You know what I mean? 0.71

00:46:07.000 If I see an athlete, and then I go, wow, that guy looks like he's in shape, and then I see a sloppy, lazy person, I'm like, oh, poor sloppy, lazy person. 0.71

00:46:16.000 I just find that, and again, we're lucky, right?

00:46:19.000 We get to hunt these animals, we get to eat the elk, we get to eat the axis deer.

00:46:22.000 These are, along with maybe Pronghorn and a few others, this is about as tasty as it gets, but...

00:46:28.000 Boy, I find that even a really nice ribeye just doesn't taste as good as it did to me five years ago.

00:46:34.000 Yeah, well, it's missing a lot of nutrition.

00:46:39.000 If you look at the dark red meat of elk, like a backstrap from elk, It's a dark red, like I took a photo a couple days ago of some back strap from the elk I shot in California this year.

00:46:58.000 I just cooked it up.

00:46:59.000 This was your 415. Yeah, that giant one.

00:47:02.000 Amazing.

00:47:02.000 Yeah, it was huge.

00:47:03.000 This is so much meat.

00:47:06.000 What I do is I'll cook like a bunch of pieces like that and then I'll eat it throughout the week.

00:47:12.000 How did you prep that?

00:47:14.000 Did you do that on the Traeger?

00:47:15.000 Yes.

00:47:15.000 I cook it on a Traeger at 265 degrees.

00:47:19.000 I've tried a bunch of...

00:47:20.000 The reason why it's blackened on the outside is I'm using a rub called Traeger's Saskatchewan...

00:47:26.000 I think it's blackened Saskatchewan rub.

00:47:29.000 That's one of my Yeah, it's my favorite for elk.

00:47:31.000 And so that's not like burnt on the outside.

00:47:33.000 That's the actual rub itself.

00:47:35.000 So I take it and I bring the internal temperature up to 120 degrees and then I sear the outside on a cast iron pan.

00:47:43.000 I usually do maybe a minute and a half on a really hot cast iron pan with beef tallow.

00:47:50.000 I use grass-fed beef tallow.

00:47:52.000 And then I pull it, I let it rest, I slice it, and then my family, we ate a lot of it, and then the rest of it I put in like a Tupperware, and then I'll eat it throughout the week.

00:48:04.000 Because in the morning it's hard for me to get everything in, all the stuff that I do and work out, and then I'm...

00:48:11.000 Pretty religious about my sauna and cold plunge.

00:48:15.000 So I'm doing, I have to allocate 40 minutes to that.

00:48:18.000 And so between my workouts and everything and I'm getting up at 7 in the morning and then I'm out here doing the podcast, I got to get everything in.

00:48:27.000 So I want a meal that I could just pull out of the fridge and in 10 minutes I'm done.

00:48:32.000 Sit down, eat it, take my vitamins, go.

00:48:36.000 And so that's my move.

00:48:38.000 I take that.

00:48:38.000 I mean elk is absolutely bananas.

00:48:40.000 I also like it with, I use, do you ever use any of Mark Sisson's stuff, his Primal Kitchen stuff?

00:48:48.000 I know my kids love his mayo.

00:48:50.000 Yes.

00:48:51.000 The avocado mayo, I think it is.

00:48:53.000 That's exactly what I was going to talk about.

00:48:54.000 He's got this Chipotle avocado mayo.

00:48:58.000 And it's all avocado oil and it's like a chipotle pepper seasoning to it. 0.96

00:49:05.000 And I just take some of that and I put a fucking pile of it on the plate and I dip the elk in that. 0.93

00:49:11.000 So I'm getting my fats that way. 0.98

00:49:13.000 You're not getting much fat in the elk.

00:49:14.000 Yeah, it's no fat.

00:49:15.000 There's no fat in it.

00:49:16.000 That's the only thing that's missing from Wild Game is the fat content, so you gotta get your fat content from somewhere else.

00:49:22.000 And I'm changing my diet a lot lately, and I've basically decided that my love for pasta and my love for bread and sugar, it's not worth it.

00:49:35.000 Like, when I go long stretches of time without eating that stuff and then I eat it, the impact is so tangible.

00:49:42.000 It's so obvious.

00:49:44.000 But it's so casual when you eat it all the time.

00:49:46.000 When you eat it all the time, you're always eating bread, you're always eating pasta. 1.00

00:49:49.000 It's like you're used to feeling like shit. 0.98

00:49:51.000 But if you go like three or four weeks with just eating like, I'll eat like potatoes, tubers, I'll eat meat, I'll eat salads. 0.97

00:50:02.000 I like, you know, salads with, I almost always just have olive oil and some sort of a vinaigrette, some sort of vinaigrette.

00:50:11.000 And when I eat like that, I feel so much better.

00:50:15.000 So I've decided, like, I'm not gonna eat any other way anymore.

00:50:18.000 Like, I will give myself, like, one cheat meal a week.

00:50:22.000 But the rest of the week, I'm not eating like that.

00:50:24.000 Like, last night, somebody brought cheeseburgers from Golden Tiger to the show at the Vulcan, and I was like, I'm not eating that.

00:50:31.000 I'm not eating it.

00:50:33.000 Did you do a similar set to the one a couple weeks ago that I saw?

00:50:36.000 Yes.

00:50:36.000 Dude, that is insane.

00:50:39.000 Thank you.

00:50:40.000 You know, to this day, my wife and I still make some of those.

00:50:43.000 I don't want to let any of the jokes out, but you know the one I'm talking about.

00:50:46.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:50:49.000 Yeah.

00:50:50.000 Once a day we make that joke.

00:50:52.000 It's because this is a set that's essentially...

00:50:55.000 Well, there's some new stuff in it because there's a lot of COVID stuff.

00:50:57.000 But it's basically like the really strong pits are two and a half years old.

00:51:02.000 Because usually they would have been on a special by now.

00:51:04.000 But because of COVID, because COVID fucked everybody's tour schedule up and everything just got really polished and tight.

00:51:12.000 Dude, I don't know if you could hear me, but I was literally embarrassing myself how much I was cackling in the back there.

00:51:19.000 I was like, That's a great room, too.

00:51:20.000 The Vulcan Gas Company on 6th Street.

00:51:22.000 It's a great room.

00:51:23.000 Hey, speaking of, did you end up getting that comedy club?

00:51:26.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:51:26.000 Don't say anything, though.

00:51:27.000 I haven't announced where it is or what it is, but yeah, I got that.

00:51:31.000 The one in Santa Barbara.

00:51:32.000 No!

00:51:33.000 No, it's on the moon.

00:51:34.000 No, I'm kidding.

00:51:35.000 Yeah.

00:51:35.000 No, I did.

00:51:36.000 I'm excited.

00:51:38.000 I'll show you.

00:51:39.000 I'm taking Ron White on a tour of it this afternoon if you want to come.

00:51:43.000 I'd love to see it, man.

00:51:44.000 That's awesome.

00:51:46.000 You have the best backyard range I've ever seen, ever.

00:51:50.000 Dude, it just got better, too.

00:51:51.000 How did it get better?

00:51:52.000 I just bought more.

00:51:54.000 Peter has this range in his backyard, because Peter's an archery nut like me, and he basically has a professional archery range in your backyard.

00:52:02.000 It's like you have hundreds of yards to shoot.

00:52:04.000 Well, we just bought the lot next to us, so now it's like we could literally set up a tack.

00:52:10.000 Oh, wow.

00:52:11.000 That's cool.

00:52:12.000 And so what I've done now is I got now elk in the woods.

00:52:15.000 That's what makes it better.

00:52:16.000 So now when I was preparing for the elk hunt this year, I was doing most of my shooting was in between trees.

00:52:22.000 Trying to build my confidence at if you want to shoot something 50 yards away, but you got two trees like this and a branch going like this.

00:52:30.000 Right.

00:52:31.000 Now you have to judge like, well, can I make that shot because of the arc of the arrow?

00:52:36.000 Do you have a full draw four?

00:52:38.000 I do.

00:52:38.000 You do?

00:52:39.000 Those are the shit. 1.00

00:52:40.000 The Leupold has, for people that don't know what we're talking about, Leupold has a range finder that you put in the weight of your arrow, the weight of the bow, the length of your peep sight, everything. 1.00

00:52:52.000 You have to put in everything.

00:52:53.000 Is it a peep sight?

00:52:54.000 Is that calculated in?

00:52:55.000 I think it's peep height elevation.

00:52:56.000 Yeah?

00:52:57.000 Yep.

00:52:57.000 Okay.

00:52:58.000 So you calculate all those things and it will literally show you how high your arrow will be at the peak.

00:53:04.000 So if you range something, which is what you do, and you dial it in on your site, it'll show you if you're going to hit a branch or not.

00:53:12.000 Yeah, it's...

00:53:13.000 Pretty sweet.

00:53:13.000 It is.

00:53:14.000 And they really took care of me because I had the...

00:53:16.000 I don't know which one.

00:53:18.000 I had one that came out a few years earlier and it was okay.

00:53:21.000 And then it just stopped working one day.

00:53:23.000 It like...

00:53:24.000 Literally, it would only range something that was perfectly dark, but anything that had even a bit of brown in it wouldn't range.

00:53:33.000 And I sent it back to them and I was like, hey, can you guys fix it?

00:53:36.000 And they're like, they just sent me a full draw four, no charge.

00:53:38.000 Wow.

00:53:39.000 Which was like, I mean, that's a really expensive rangefinder.

00:53:42.000 It's kind of wild that someone figured out that you could shoot a laser at something and then it'll report back to you how far that laser is touching something.

00:53:51.000 Well, I mean, that's amazing, but the fact that they can just do angle compensation is awesome.

00:53:56.000 Yeah.

00:53:57.000 Yeah, for people who don't know what we're talking about, because we went into the full archery nerd mode, angle compensation means if you are shooting 50 yards, right, if the object is 50 yards, but it's 50 yards uphill, You will really be shooting more for like,

00:54:13.000 probably 57 yards.

00:54:15.000 You'll have to, because you're fighting against gravity.

00:54:18.000 And if you're shooting downhill 50 yards, you're really probably shooting 20 yards.

00:54:23.000 Because you have no problem with gravity.

00:54:25.000 It's non-existent.

00:54:27.000 So you have to use an angle compensating range finder that tells you, based on how you're turning the range finder, which direction it's going, whether or not you need to add or subtract yards.

00:54:41.000 And it does it all internally.

00:54:42.000 It calculates everything.

00:54:43.000 And the first shot I ever took in my life at an animal went a foot over his back because I had been doing all my practicing with a compensated range finder.

00:54:54.000 And this was out in Molokai and it was an axis deer and my guide is behind me and he ranges it but he is using an old school range finder that doesn't have angle compensation.

00:55:08.000 What?

00:55:09.000 Yeah.

00:55:09.000 How's he doing that?

00:55:10.000 Because he's old school. 1.00

00:55:11.000 That's dumb. 0.99

00:55:12.000 So this animal was, you know, probably 20 yards, 20 degrees down. 0.99

00:55:16.000 Right.

00:55:17.000 So I just took the distance and assumed it was compensated for and shot and it was like, I was like, That was a perfect shot.

00:55:25.000 Why did it go a foot over that animal? 0.95

00:55:27.000 Yeah.

00:55:27.000 And I was like...

00:55:28.000 Let me see that.

00:55:29.000 Let me see that rangefinder.

00:55:30.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:55:30.000 And I realized, I said, Wayne, you don't have angle compensation on here.

00:55:33.000 He's like, no.

00:55:34.000 I was like...

00:55:34.000 Hey, from now on, can you hold my rangefinder?

00:55:39.000 Yeah, the amount of technology that's involved in bow hunting, and just hunting in general now.

00:55:45.000 I mean, people have watches that have GPS on them, and you could put waypoints, and you could track on your phone exactly where the hit was, and then from there on you could mark where each drop of blood you find is.

00:56:01.000 So I learned something last year that blew my mind.

00:56:04.000 My wife, as a gift, got me a framed picture of Matthew McPherson's patent for the compound bow.

00:56:13.000 And I was like, oh, this is so beautiful.

00:56:14.000 So it hangs up in my archery room.

00:56:17.000 But here's the thing that blew my mind.

00:56:18.000 What year do you think that patent was?

00:56:20.000 I kind of gave it away because I told you it was Matthew McPherson, so you know it.

00:56:23.000 I don't know who he is, so you didn't give it away.

00:56:25.000 Okay.

00:56:28.000 Compound bow. 0.85

00:56:29.000 I've seen some old shitty ones, and they look like they're from the 60s. 0.82

00:56:33.000 So I'm gonna say... 0.96

00:56:35.000 55?

00:56:37.000 Yeah, that's what I'm gonna guess.

00:56:38.000 It's 87. Whoa!

00:56:41.000 Yeah, the patent for the compound bow is 1987. Wow!

00:56:46.000 That's amazing when you think of how far that...

00:56:48.000 Yeah, there it is.

00:56:49.000 That's it?

00:56:49.000 There it is.

00:56:50.000 So you got that at your house?

00:56:51.000 Yep. 1.00

00:56:52.000 What kind of a fucking wizard figured out a cam for a bow like that and figured out all those strings? 1.00

00:56:57.000 Dude, I think it's the same guy who makes Matthews bows. 1.00

00:57:00.000 Really?

00:57:01.000 Yeah, isn't that who Matthew McPherson is?

00:57:03.000 It must be Matthews.

00:57:04.000 So that's the original bow?

00:57:05.000 Yeah.

00:57:06.000 They still make one of the best bows in the world right now.

00:57:09.000 You ever shot one of them?

00:57:10.000 I have never shot one, but it looks amazing.

00:57:13.000 Just such a perfect hunting bow, such a short axis, so compact.

00:57:18.000 Yeah, the new ones are incredible.

00:57:20.000 Shane Dorian shoots with one.

00:57:22.000 He loves it.

00:57:23.000 He was telling me how incredible it is.

00:57:25.000 There's so many bows now that are just top of the food chain.

00:57:29.000 I just got the new PSE, the carbon fiber one I was telling you about.

00:57:34.000 It's incredible.

00:57:36.000 It feels so light.

00:57:37.000 It feels fake.

00:57:38.000 It's weird.

00:57:39.000 When I go back and shoot my RX-3, which is only three years old, it feels horrible compared to my NTN. Isn't that crazy?

00:57:48.000 The cam is so miserable to me.

00:57:53.000 We only needed a lot of people with this podcast.

00:57:55.000 I bring on a doctor.

00:57:57.000 He wants to talk about bow cams.

00:58:00.000 Alright, we're done with that.

00:58:02.000 We can talk about anything. 0.99

00:58:03.000 I don't give a fuck. 0.99

00:58:04.000 It doesn't bother me. 0.98

00:58:07.000 Is there any new...

00:58:12.000 Information in the world of longevity and the world of health or anything that you know of that is exciting?

00:58:20.000 I mean, there are two extremes, right?

00:58:22.000 I think on the one end- Tell everybody what kind of medicine you practice just so they know.

00:58:26.000 Oh, so I mean, my practice is basically trying to figure out how to help people live with a greater lifespan.

00:58:34.000 So how do you add 10, 15 years to how long a person's going to live?

00:58:37.000 And then how do you improve health span?

00:58:39.000 So how do you improve?

00:58:40.000 And your degree is in what kind of medicine?

00:58:43.000 So I did surgical oncology.

00:58:45.000 I did general surgery and oncology.

00:58:48.000 But I left medicine in 2006 and went, you know, did finance and other stuff and completely went away from it until I kind of came back to it about 10 years ago.

00:58:58.000 Why did you leave it?

00:59:01.000 I mean, truthfully, I was super frustrated.

00:59:04.000 In cancer surgery, you're doing kind of like very heroic operations.

00:59:10.000 I mean, the most technically challenging types of operations.

00:59:14.000 But, you know, half the people still die, right?

00:59:17.000 So 50% of people who are going to have surgery, and in some cases more, if you're talking about pancreatic cancer, 80% of the people whose pancreas gets removed for cancer are going to be dead in five years.

00:59:30.000 Wow.

00:59:30.000 So, you know, I just felt like, in all regards, I just felt like there wasn't enough in the way of prevention.

00:59:39.000 And in some ways, that is necessary.

00:59:41.000 I mean, because I trained at Hopkins, which is in the inner city, it's a lot of trauma surgery.

00:59:45.000 So every third night for five years, you're taking care of gunshot wounds.

00:59:49.000 And we had so many.

00:59:50.000 I mean, Baltimore averaged, at Hopkins, we averaged, at the time, I don't know what it's like today, at the time, it was 16 penetrating traumas a day.

00:59:57.000 So 16 gunshot wounds or stab wounds a day.

00:59:59.000 So as a trainee, that's amazing, right?

01:00:02.000 Like, that's what you're there for.

01:00:03.000 That's why I went specifically to that program, was to be able to learn to operate on people who are shot or stabbed.

01:00:11.000 But, you know, it does take its toll on you, right?

01:00:13.000 You just feel like there's no end to this.

01:00:16.000 Like, I mean, it's a war zone out there, and...

01:00:22.000 I remember there were times when you'd be a part of a heroic rescue of somebody and they go out the door and they come back a week later with a gunshot wound to the head and they're dead.

01:00:32.000 And you're like, ugh.

01:00:34.000 I mean, come on.

01:00:36.000 So yeah, I was just frustrated with everything in medicine when I left.

01:00:39.000 I was super pissed. 0.98

01:00:40.000 My wife was like, you know, you bitch and moan about this so much, I think you have two choices. 1.00

01:00:45.000 You should either fix it or leave. 0.99

01:00:47.000 And I was like, well, I can't fix it, so I'm leaving.

01:00:50.000 So I left and joined a company called McKinsey and was recruited there to do healthcare, but ended up, because my background's in math, doing credit risk.

01:00:58.000 And this was like the two years building up to the mortgage meltdown.

01:01:01.000 So that became my day job and my night job.

01:01:04.000 I mean, that was all consuming for two years.

01:01:08.000 What was your night job?

01:01:09.000 No, meaning like we work 24-7.

01:01:11.000 I would run a team of analysts in India during the night and then a team in San Francisco during the day.

01:01:17.000 And all day, all night, we were kind of trying to basically figure out how bad this thing was going to be.

01:01:23.000 So you saw it coming?

01:01:25.000 Oh, yeah.

01:01:25.000 How far out?

01:01:28.000 So by August of 2007, it was clear that the prime market was going to implode.

01:01:37.000 And I still remember the day, Thursday, November 15th, 2007, is when I had a sense of what the magnitude was going to be.

01:01:46.000 The thing I didn't know was when.

01:01:49.000 I knew it was going to be the next 18 months, but it wasn't like I could say in September, which is when it ended up happening, right?

01:01:56.000 It was 10 months later.

01:01:57.000 I couldn't say in September the bottom is going to fall out.

01:02:00.000 Was there anything that could have been done that would have mitigated the impact on the economy and society and repossessions?

01:02:11.000 Yeah, I mean that's a really good question because at the time in November of 07, we – and I want to also be clear.

01:02:19.000 The reason we knew with such clarity how bad this was is we had a client.

01:02:24.000 Our client was the largest – I guess I could – probably the largest U.S. home lender in prime real estate and we had all the data.

01:02:32.000 So we're able to see stuff that's not publicly available.

01:02:35.000 But they didn't see it.

01:02:36.000 But when we went back and looked at the analysis, we figured out that starting in 2004, starting in the second quarter of 2004, every loan that was being originated was behaving differently than the entire history of mortgages.

01:02:51.000 So this is a really interesting analysis.

01:02:54.000 It's called a vintage analysis.

01:02:57.000 If you bundle mortgages together and look at how they behave, for all of time, they behave in a certain way.

01:03:04.000 For about the first 18 months, none of them default.

01:03:08.000 So 18 months after a person buys a house, historically, there's no chance of default.

01:03:15.000 Then defaults start to rise.

01:03:18.000 And they rise for about the next two to three years.

01:03:21.000 And then they never default again.

01:03:23.000 So the vintage curve looks like this.

01:03:26.000 This is cumulative loss rate.

01:03:28.000 So what's the reason for that?

01:03:30.000 So the reason nobody defaults in the first 18 months is because historically you really make sure that the person who you're selling a house to or giving a loan to can afford it.

01:03:40.000 You do a really extensive background check on them.

01:03:43.000 And if something's going to go wrong, it's unlikely to go wrong in that first 18 months because of how much you've documented their income and employment and stuff like that.

01:03:51.000 Then you get into an area where some people are going to default.

01:03:54.000 And then the reason three, four years out there's no more defaulting is because by that point people have enough equity in their home that if they run into trouble they can always sell the home and the bank gets their money back.

01:04:04.000 So again, you go back in time, every vintage curve for every single mortgage looked like this.

01:04:26.000 Explain to people that are just listening.

01:04:29.000 Meaning they started to, instead of going up and then flat again, they just kept going up and up and up and up and up.

01:04:35.000 But they actually did it at an exponential rate.

01:04:37.000 So they didn't just go up straight.

01:04:39.000 They would go up exponentially.

01:04:41.000 In other words, there was no end in sight to the explosion of losses.

01:04:45.000 So the losses started happening immediately and they never slowed down.

01:04:49.000 They accelerated with time.

01:04:51.000 So this is looking at a chain reaction.

01:04:54.000 And this was one of five models that we built to try to understand what was going on.

01:05:00.000 And they all pointed in the same direction, which was catastrophic outcomes, basically for loans that became originated after 2004. So by the time we're in 2007, when we show all this data to them, Obviously,

01:05:16.000 they didn't believe it, right?

01:05:17.000 They said – well, because the punchline was horrible.

01:05:20.000 The punchline was you're going to lose more in the next 18 months than you've made in the last 10 years.

01:05:25.000 And that was like – they were like, that's not possible.

01:05:30.000 And I had to be the one to tell the head of the bank, right?

01:05:34.000 Because – and even though I was only like – there's a hierarchy at McKinsey.

01:05:38.000 There's like senior partners, junior partners.

01:05:40.000 And I was just like a lowly manager who ran the analysts.

01:05:43.000 And the senior partner would normally be the one to present such an outrageous finding to the board of a bank.

01:05:50.000 But he was like, you should present this.

01:05:54.000 And I said, why?

01:05:55.000 And he goes, well, you understand the technical details of the model better.

01:05:58.000 And also, you used to be a cancer surgeon, so you're used to giving bad news.

01:06:03.000 I think this is not going to go very well.

01:06:06.000 So you do this.

01:06:08.000 And it did not go well.

01:06:09.000 It was not well received.

01:06:12.000 They could have done something.

01:06:13.000 Yes, they absolutely could have done something.

01:06:15.000 It wouldn't have stopped us.

01:06:17.000 All the damage, but it would have minimized the damage.

01:06:20.000 Because remember, there was still another 10 months of horrible loans being originated, horrible loans being securitized, and they were mispriced.

01:06:31.000 I mean, ultimately, that's the problem with this.

01:06:33.000 It was just a mispricing game.

01:06:34.000 They didn't know how to price the risk of the loans they were making.

01:06:37.000 Trevor Burrus And how many people were predicting this the way you were?

01:06:42.000 Well, look, a lot of people way smarter than me were predicting it. 1.00

01:06:45.000 Remember, I was an idiot. 1.00

01:06:46.000 All I knew was how bad this was. 1.00

01:06:48.000 I had no clue how one could make money off this because I wasn't thinking about it through that lens.

01:06:53.000 Oh, I see.

01:06:54.000 Remember.

01:06:54.000 Some folks were.

01:06:55.000 Yeah, if you saw The Big Short, did you ever see that movie?

01:06:57.000 No, I did not.

01:06:58.000 Oh, so I think it's called The Big Short, right?

01:07:00.000 It was...

01:07:01.000 Is that it, Jamie?

01:07:02.000 Yeah.

01:07:03.000 Great movie because it was actually very accurate.

01:07:05.000 Who was in that movie?

01:07:07.000 Christian Bale plays the guy, the main...

01:07:10.000 That's right.

01:07:11.000 Kind of found the stuff.

01:07:12.000 Yep, yep.

01:07:14.000 A lot of people are in it.

01:07:14.000 Steve Carell is in it too.

01:07:15.000 Brad Pitt was in it, if I recall.

01:07:16.000 There's a lot of people in it.

01:07:17.000 It was a really good movie.

01:07:18.000 It was actually super accurate in terms of describing what was going on.

01:07:24.000 And I remember when it came out, I was able to finally explain to my wife why we weren't billionaires.

01:07:29.000 Because she's always like, dude, you knew this was happening, and yet, like, why do I hear about guys like John Paulson and all these hedge fund guys that made $3 billion on this?

01:07:38.000 And I said, ah, this movie will explain why.

01:07:40.000 If you know this is happening, and the only instrument you have in your mind to make money on it is shorting equities, you can't make money.

01:07:48.000 Right.

01:07:48.000 In other words – and by the way, ethically I couldn't have done this because I had inside data of a bank.

01:07:54.000 I couldn't have done anything with that information.

01:07:56.000 But let's just assume that I could have shorted all the other companies.

01:07:59.000 You couldn't have done anything legally or ethically according to your own feeling and standards.

01:08:04.000 Certainly not ethically.

01:08:05.000 I don't know about legally.

01:08:06.000 But I could never have shorted this company that I knew inside and out.

01:08:10.000 But I could have shorted others.

01:08:12.000 But even still, I wouldn't have made a lot of money because one – Shorting equities is really expensive when you don't know when the shoe is going to fall.

01:08:22.000 Because you have to make a margin call over and over and over again.

01:08:25.000 It's not leveraged, right?

01:08:28.000 What these brilliant guys did was they figured out that they could short an option on what was going to happen.

01:08:35.000 They could basically short an insurance contract.

01:08:39.000 And that was super cheap.

01:08:41.000 You're leveraged 1,000 to 1 at this point, meaning you only have to put a dollar at risk to get $1,000 back.

01:08:50.000 On something you know is going to happen and you don't have to really concern yourself with exactly when it's going to happen.

01:08:56.000 At least not in the same cost inefficient way that you have to with equities.

01:09:01.000 So that's what Michael Burry is the guy's name by the way that Christian Bale played.

01:09:07.000 That's what the Michael Burry's of the world did.

01:09:09.000 And there were a handful of these guys that were like, we're going to make up these contracts.

01:09:12.000 So they went to banks and said, I want you to sell me a contract that says this thing is going to happen.

01:09:18.000 And the banks were like, wait, you want me to sell you a contract that's saying mortgage defaults are going to go up?

01:09:25.000 We'll do that all day because that's never happened before.

01:09:27.000 Happily.

01:09:28.000 Happily I'll sell you that contract.

01:09:30.000 And they price them horribly, meaning in favor of the traders.

01:09:34.000 Right.

01:09:34.000 Yeah.

01:09:35.000 Wow.

01:09:37.000 It's such a complicated world and I don't know how else you would sell houses to people.

01:09:44.000 Unless they had enough money to just pay cash for a house, which nobody does.

01:09:49.000 How else would you sell a house to people?

01:09:52.000 It's sort of funny.

01:09:53.000 When the whole thing blew up, people said, well, this is because interest rates have been too low for too long.

01:09:58.000 So Alan Greenspan became the very convenient bad guy for all of this.

01:10:03.000 And it's true. 0.56

01:10:03.000 Interest rates were a little bit too low for too long. 0.56

01:10:05.000 But we know today that that's categorically not the thing that drove it.

01:10:10.000 Low interest rates are simply the oxygen that's necessary for a fire.

01:10:14.000 But we're sitting in a room right now with lots of oxygen.

01:10:17.000 There's no fire going on.

01:10:18.000 Clearly, oxygen is not the root cause of the problem.

01:10:21.000 The root cause of the problem was the absolutely inept lending standards.

01:10:28.000 What fostered it was the ability to securitize loans.

01:10:31.000 So once you could make a horrible loan and you didn't have to live with it on your books, you could actually sell it to someone else who didn't understand what you were selling, then it just became out of control.

01:10:44.000 It was a scary time, because it was also a scary time where we were really worried that banks were going to fail.

01:10:51.000 And there was a lot of people that were saying, let them fail.

01:10:55.000 The banks should fail, because we shouldn't prop up these banks.

01:10:59.000 And meanwhile, these people that are these CEOs, they're going to give themselves bonuses.

01:11:03.000 Which is so insane.

01:11:05.000 Even though they lost all this money and they had to be bailed out by the government, these people still got bonuses.

01:11:10.000 And I was like, explain to me why they get bonuses.

01:11:13.000 They're like, well, these people are very talented and if they don't give them bonuses, they're going to go somewhere where they do get bonuses. 0.96

01:11:18.000 I'm like, what the fuck does that mean? 1.00

01:11:20.000 You guys are a bunch of crooks. 1.00

01:11:22.000 How did you rig this thing where you fail miserably and yet you still get a bonus? 1.00

01:11:26.000 I thought you only get a bonus if you're successful.

01:11:28.000 Yeah.

01:11:29.000 And you got a bonus from taxpayer money?

01:11:32.000 But then someone explained to me that the banks paid those loans back quite quickly.

01:11:37.000 Is that true?

01:11:38.000 It is.

01:11:38.000 The TARP program made money for the government.

01:11:41.000 So the government extracted a pound of flesh on those loans.

01:11:45.000 So the people that said that we should have just let the banks fail, that's not correct.

01:11:50.000 In my opinion, that is not correct.

01:11:52.000 The collateral damage of that would have been devastating.

01:11:56.000 But your other point is also notable.

01:11:58.000 So let's not confound two things.

01:12:00.000 So if you let the banks fail, everything goes to hell in a handbasket.

01:12:04.000 You have a recession that rivals that of 1929. That's a bad scenario.

01:12:10.000 The way that the TARP program was engineered was to prevent that from happening, but also it wasn't a gift.

01:12:16.000 It was, you're going to pay these loans back, which they did.

01:12:19.000 Okay.

01:12:20.000 But there still, in my opinion, could have been and should have been more clauses in that program that permitted some of the really flagrant abuses that came down the line, like the AIG guys getting bonuses that they probably shouldn't have got.

01:12:34.000 In other words, I think the government basically...

01:12:39.000 Made the argument, which was, well, if we don't pay these people, they're not going to stick around and we need them to clean up this mess.

01:12:45.000 And my view is, I bet enough good people would have stuck around without having to pay so many people so much.

01:12:52.000 And by the way, the people that really needed the bonuses were not the CEOs.

01:12:55.000 Like, they're not the ones doing the work, right?

01:12:56.000 Right.

01:12:57.000 Yeah.

01:12:58.000 And so you do this, and how do you change?

01:13:01.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:13:01.000 So basically, actually, everything for me changed when my daughter was born.

01:13:04.000 So my daughter was born 13 years ago, and I'm 35. And I mean, I'm sure you can relate to this, but at least for me, that was the moment when I first cared about living longer.

01:13:17.000 It was the first moment I had a thought beyond myself and thought, like, oh, my God, like, I remember when my wife was pregnant, I was not that excited about it.

01:13:26.000 I was kind of like...

01:13:27.000 We had a cat at the time, and I loved this cat.

01:13:30.000 And I remember saying to my wife, I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to love our daughter as much as I love Midnight, our little cat.

01:13:36.000 My wife was like, are you crazy? 0.99

01:13:38.000 And of course, the second Olivia was born, I was obsessed with her.

01:13:42.000 And then I was like, I've got to figure this out, because every male in my family has died of heart disease except one.

01:13:48.000 I have horrible genes for heart disease.

01:13:50.000 What causes heart disease genetically?

01:13:53.000 Like, what is it?

01:13:54.000 Well, the most common genetic driver of heart disease is something called LpA.

01:13:59.000 So one in about 10 people, somewhere between one in eight and one in 12, so call it one in 10 people, 10% of people have a gene called Lpa that makes too much of this lipoprotein called LpA, which you've heard of LDL, right?

01:14:14.000 So LDL is this atherogenic lipoprotein.

01:14:18.000 LP little A is an LDL that has another protein wrapped on it called APO little A, and it makes it much worse.

01:14:26.000 So the single most common genetic, the single most common hereditary driver of cardiovascular disease is elevated LP little A. And the tragic thing is most doctors don't even know what it is.

01:14:38.000 So this is one of the things I, I have more podcasts on this topic than any other because It's inexcusable to me that a patient doesn't know that they have an elevated LP little a.

01:14:46.000 This is a screening test we should do on children.

01:14:49.000 So that's number one.

01:14:51.000 After that, it gets much more complicated.

01:14:54.000 Heart disease is wildly polygenic.

01:14:59.000 So LPA is one rare example that's not polygenic, meaning there is just one gene that drives LPA. But when you start to get into something like familial hypercholesterolemia, which is also kind of common, that's any set of genes.

01:15:12.000 And there are over 3,000 mutations that produce elevated LDL through one form or another.

01:15:19.000 That becomes another huge driver of genetic inheritance.

01:15:23.000 But what's scary, at least for someone like me, is it's really clear when you look at my family history, heart disease is a problem.

01:15:30.000 I don't have anything recognizable, meaning I don't have LP little a, I don't have familial hypercholesterolemia, I don't have any of the few known genes that are really driving this.

01:15:42.000 My cholesterol levels were never really that heavy to begin with.

01:15:45.000 My Yeah.

01:16:01.000 Now six is not a high number on a calcium scan, but when you're 35, that places you at the 90th percentile. 0.99

01:16:08.000 So that was like the, I gotta figure this shit out. 0.89

01:16:11.000 I'm gonna devote the rest of my life to understanding how to not die of heart disease. 0.97

01:16:16.000 And then ultimately, so my first focus became an obsession with cardiovascular disease.

01:16:20.000 Which lasted about four years.

01:16:22.000 And then I realized, well, there's no benefit in not dying of cardiovascular disease if you're going to still die of cancer or dementia or something like that.

01:16:29.000 So then my obsession and interest just expanded through all of that.

01:16:33.000 What did you do to keep yourself from being at the risk of dying from cardiovascular disease?

01:16:39.000 Well, I mean, it came down to reverse engineering what is driving cardiovascular disease, which is the most ubiquitous killer, right?

01:16:45.000 So there's no developed nation for which cardiovascular disease isn't the number one killer.

01:16:50.000 Really?

01:16:51.000 Yeah, so hands down.

01:16:52.000 Only developed nations?

01:16:54.000 Yeah, once you get out of developed nations, infections and other things sort of start to overcome that.

01:16:59.000 Do they suffer from cardiovascular diseases when you're dealing with tribal communities? 0.98

01:17:05.000 Yeah, definitely not to the same extent.

01:17:07.000 What's the factor?

01:17:09.000 Well, I mean, I think there's a couple things, right?

01:17:11.000 One could be they're not living as long, so we're not seeing it as much.

01:17:14.000 And we don't really have great autopsy data on people who are dying in their 40s and 50s from infections and other things like that.

01:17:22.000 But, you know, it could be, you know, that obviously they just don't have the same toxins in their food system that we do, right?

01:17:28.000 They're probably not eating half the refined crap that we eat. 0.79

01:17:31.000 Yeah, that's what I was going to get to.

01:17:32.000 Like, how much of an impact do you think that stuff does have?

01:17:35.000 I think it has a significant impact, for sure.

01:17:37.000 Yeah.

01:17:38.000 So atherosclerosis is really driven by lipoproteins first and foremost.

01:17:42.000 So anything that carries this ApoB protein on it, so that's an LDL, an LP little a, a VLDL, that's the synquinone.

01:17:49.000 That is the necessary but not sufficient element to drive atherosclerosis.

01:17:54.000 Anything that impairs endothelial function, so high blood pressure, high glucose, high insulin, high homocysteine, all that stuff, problematic.

01:18:02.000 Yeah.

01:18:03.000 Anything that amplifies inflammation, all the things.

01:18:06.000 So basically, I just said, okay, well, we're just going to take a no-holds-barred approach to addressing all of those things.

01:18:15.000 And that's why I sit here today and I can say, look, between now and when I'm 60, the one thing I know I'm not going to die of is atherosclerosis.

01:18:23.000 I would say that in the next 10 years, my greatest risk of death is motor vehicle accident and cancer.

01:18:29.000 Those would be the two hardest things to mitigate.

01:18:31.000 Right.

01:18:32.000 Now, why is it so difficult to mitigate cancer?

01:18:35.000 Well, for one, of the big diseases, it's the one for which I think we have the least idea of what the risk factors are.

01:18:42.000 So the big three, in terms of death, is atherosclerosis, cancer, and neurodegeneration.

01:18:49.000 With cancer, it's also very polygenic and...

01:18:54.000 What's that mean?

01:18:55.000 Lots of genes are involved.

01:18:57.000 So if I did a genetic test, if I had your entire genome in front of me, it wouldn't tell me much about your risk for cancer.

01:19:04.000 So the genes that are driving it are also not germline, they're somatic, meaning they're inherited mutations.

01:19:11.000 So one of the few things we know about cancer is...

01:19:16.000 The earlier you can detect it, the better.

01:19:18.000 That's a truism that is becoming almost impossible to argue.

01:19:24.000 So you're always better off finding a cancer when you have 100 million cells that are cancerous versus 10 billion cells that are cancerous.

01:19:33.000 And our tools for screening are somewhat limited.

01:19:36.000 Now, they're getting better.

01:19:37.000 So to your question earlier, what's one of the things I'm excited about?

01:19:39.000 I think liquid biopsies are something in the last year that we have become very excited about.

01:19:44.000 So all of our patients get these things called liquid biopsies, which is a blood test that measures something called cell-free DNA. So we're looking for tumor DNA in the bloodstream.

01:19:55.000 So meaning at very low levels of tumor burden, you can still pick it up by getting some of this cell-free DNA floating around your bloodstream.

01:20:06.000 So it's literally like you take a tube of blood and you can say, oh, there's actually like some pancreatic cancer here or some colon cancer here or breast cancer here.

01:20:16.000 And then you go looking for that cancer.

01:20:18.000 Wow.

01:20:19.000 Because there are false positives, of course, when you do these things.

01:20:22.000 So you can't think of screening as just one thing you do.

01:20:25.000 It's got to be layered, kind of like a Swiss cheese approach.

01:20:27.000 You want to have as many pieces of Swiss cheese lined up as possible so that one and only one pencil fits through the hole.

01:20:32.000 And you know you get a signal with your cancer detection.

01:20:36.000 So this one test just from a tube of blood, how new is this?

01:20:42.000 I don't even know if it's technically approved yet.

01:20:45.000 I know that we're doing it.

01:20:48.000 Certain physicians are being allowed to do it in the context of having a very comprehensive approach to follow up with patients.

01:20:57.000 So, because our patients are doing it in the context of a billion other things, so there's not as much of a concern from the part of the FDA. But I don't think this is fully FDA approved yet.

01:21:09.000 But it's very recent.

01:21:10.000 We've been doing it only six months.

01:21:12.000 I mean, I did mine in April.

01:21:14.000 I was probably one of the first people to do it.

01:21:16.000 Did you get nervous?

01:21:18.000 I mean, no.

01:21:19.000 I mean, I was kind of like, look, it's so much more important to me to know I have cancer than to put my head in the sand and not know.

01:21:26.000 Right.

01:21:26.000 Yeah.

01:21:27.000 Right.

01:21:27.000 Of course.

01:21:28.000 But every time I go and get this diffusion-weighted image MRI, which is this very particular type of MRI that's uniquely tuned to detect cancer and getting a blood test like this or getting a colonoscopy, which I'm very aggressive with, all of these things, yeah, there's always a moment of just let me come out clean.

01:21:46.000 Yeah.

01:21:48.000 So you have these concerns about longevity.

01:21:52.000 You have these concerns about cardiovascular health and cancer.

01:21:55.000 And so what prompts you to start your practice and re-emerge into medicine?

01:22:05.000 I just – there was nothing else I could think about.

01:22:07.000 Like at the time, I had left that one company where I was doing all the energy stuff – or where I was doing all the finance stuff and I went to join an energy company.

01:22:15.000 So now I was like working on like a – A renewable form of oil.

01:22:21.000 A renewable form of oil?

01:22:24.000 Yeah.

01:22:24.000 So this is a company that was using, we were using algae and genetically programming the algae to spit out a fungible form of oil.

01:22:35.000 Wow.

01:22:36.000 So meaning it would produce a distillate, a cut of distillate that could be refined into gasoline and jet fuel.

01:22:44.000 Whoa.

01:22:45.000 From algae?

01:22:46.000 Yeah.

01:22:46.000 How effective is that?

01:22:48.000 Well, ultimately, it could not be done at cost.

01:22:52.000 So, I mean, I left after four years.

01:22:54.000 That company went on for another four years, but it just couldn't be done at the price of where oil was, which at the time was like 50 bucks a barrel.

01:23:01.000 I wanted to talk to you about, this is a little bit of a deviation, but it's not really.

01:23:04.000 I wanted to talk to you about Theranos. 0.98

01:23:07.000 Because I am fucking completely obsessed with that lady and her scam company. 1.00

01:23:14.000 Dude, did you know that I was almost the chief medical officer of that company? 0.99

01:23:18.000 No!

01:23:19.000 Yeah, dude.

01:23:20.000 So in 2006, my McKinsey office, which was in Palo Alto, was on Page Mill, which was one street over from where Theranos was located.

01:23:30.000 So Theranos at the time was a super small company.

01:23:32.000 So a good friend of mine...

01:23:35.000 His father-in-law was on the board and knew Elizabeth Holmes very well.

01:23:40.000 He was her professor at Stanford.

01:23:42.000 And the company was small at that time.

01:23:45.000 It was like maybe 30 people there or something like that.

01:23:47.000 And he said, look, I want you, my friend, to potentially look at this company because they could really use a CFO. And he was in private equity at the time, really smart guy.

01:24:01.000 And to make it long so short, I got introduced to Elizabeth.

01:24:03.000 So I went down and had lunch with her one day.

01:24:05.000 Did you ever catch her talking in a real voice?

01:24:07.000 You know, it's so fun.

01:24:09.000 I met her later, and she already had the fake voice. 0.88

01:24:12.000 But I can't remember that day what her voice was like.

01:24:15.000 I wish I could remember, but, you know, it's like 15 years ago, right?

01:24:18.000 I would remember if it was weird.

01:24:20.000 I don't think it was.

01:24:22.000 I think it must have been a real voice.

01:24:22.000 If she talked like this, I would say, what is going on?

01:24:25.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:24:25.000 Have you had throat cancer?

01:24:27.000 What are you doing?

01:24:28.000 I think she must have been talking in a normal voice.

01:24:30.000 But here's what interested me.

01:24:31.000 I sat down in the office and she pulled out a black box that was, I don't know if it was called Edison at the time or if it was the precursor to what would become Edison.

01:24:41.000 Diagnostics is not something I knew a ton about.

01:24:43.000 But, you know, I'd spent two years at the NIH, and I certainly understand how chemical reagents work, and I understand how chemical assays work.

01:24:51.000 And I know how, for example, an ELISA works.

01:24:53.000 An ELISA is a type of assay that you do to measure something, but it requires a lot of washing and rinsing and repeating.

01:25:01.000 And I know that many biomarkers that are of interest, for example, something like insulin, you know, if you want to measure a person's insulin level, you have to do these types of assays, right?

01:25:13.000 So, I was saying to her, you know, Elizabeth, I don't understand how you could put a drop of blood in here and get anything out that's more interesting than glucose, hemoglobin, sodium, and potassium.

01:25:23.000 The really simple things that can work, you know, that can be measured off a drop of blood.

01:25:27.000 And she kind of gave me some answer, and I said, well, can I see the inside of the box?

01:25:30.000 And she said, absolutely not.

01:25:31.000 And I said, well, I've signed an NDA, you know, I had to sign an NDA to get in the building, so, and she was like, no.

01:25:39.000 So I just decided I wasn't interested in the company because I couldn't get sort of straight answers from her.

01:25:43.000 So I ended up not doing it.

01:25:45.000 So fast forward to 20, this was 2006. Fast forward to 2015, she's now on the cover of Forbes.

01:25:53.000 And you're like, hmm.

01:25:56.000 Well, no, no.

01:25:57.000 I remember one day saying to my wife, because she was on the cover of Forbes and the company was valued a little over $9 billion.

01:26:04.000 And I said to my wife, Do you know how much we would be worth if I had taken that job now?

01:26:09.000 And she's like, how much?

01:26:10.000 And I told her, and she's like, good God!

01:26:14.000 And so I'm at the Vanity Fair event in San Francisco.

01:26:20.000 I didn't know it at the time.

01:26:21.000 This was a week before the Wall Street Journal article would fall, John Cario's article that was the one that kind of unraveled all of Theranos in October of 2015. How did he figure it out?

01:26:34.000 How'd this one guy figure out that it was all...

01:26:36.000 So I haven't read his book, Bad Blood, but I saw the documentary, so that's like a poor man's version of it, but basically just interviewing people who were formerly employees of the company.

01:26:46.000 Oh, so they were bean spillers. 0.98

01:26:48.000 Yeah, and they were basically like, yeah, this is a total scam.

01:26:51.000 Oh my god.

01:26:52.000 And so sure enough, I'm at this reception, and she's the speaker of the event.

01:26:57.000 So it's a four-day conference, and she's the one everyone is there to see.

01:27:02.000 So I'm sitting at a table, and I'm having a cocktail, and she walks up, and she... 0.66

01:27:11.000 And I said, hey, Elizabeth, you probably don't remember me.

01:27:12.000 She goes, no, I remember you exactly.

01:27:13.000 And she remembered my name and even remembered how I had been introduced to her.

01:27:17.000 I was like, really blown away.

01:27:18.000 We exchanged pleasantries.

01:27:20.000 She gave me her card.

01:27:21.000 And then a week later, it all unraveled.

01:27:23.000 And it's really funny.

01:27:24.000 I still have the card.

01:27:25.000 You should frame it.

01:27:26.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1.00

01:27:27.000 She must have known that the shit was hitting the fan. 1.00

01:27:30.000 No, no, she totally did. 1.00

01:27:31.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1.00

01:27:31.000 Because the shit was hitting the fan six months earlier. 1.00

01:27:34.000 What does one do? 1.00

01:27:36.000 And it's not like you can liquidate, right?

01:27:39.000 Like, if you're worth $9 billion, but it's all stock, and you know the product is nonsense, you can't even get out.

01:27:46.000 Well, it's a private company, so at best, you know, she could have, along the way, been doing secondaries off her take.

01:27:52.000 Oh, so it wasn't even, yeah.

01:27:54.000 Jesus Christ, that was wild.

01:27:56.000 It's just, I'm obsessed with this podcast that's out now called The Dropout, and they update weekly with the trial results.

01:28:04.000 Oh, I need to check that out.

01:28:05.000 It's great.

01:28:06.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:28:07.000 So tell me this, how is it looking?

01:28:08.000 Is the prosecution looking like they're going to win this?

01:28:12.000 Oh, yeah.

01:28:13.000 Yeah, they have falsified documents.

01:28:15.000 They pretended that they got a document from Pfizer.

01:28:18.000 They put Pfizer's name on a document.

01:28:21.000 And it was an internal document.

01:28:22.000 And it was basically substantiating the machine, the Edison machine, and all the possibilities that it could...

01:28:30.000 She also lied about military use, the Department of Defense contracts.

01:28:35.000 Yeah, they have her on the stand lying or have her on the stand admitting that she lied because there was recordings. 0.99

01:28:43.000 Has she taken the stand yet?

01:28:45.000 I believe so.

01:28:46.000 I mean, there's definitely moments in the podcast where she's being interviewed, where she's being forced to answer questions.

01:28:54.000 Oh, but this might have been the civil deposition.

01:28:57.000 Yeah, maybe.

01:28:58.000 I don't know, but this is in the middle of the current trial, so I'm not sure.

01:29:03.000 Because it's a really well-produced podcast and it has narration and music and all this stuff.

01:29:08.000 The Dropout.

01:29:09.000 Yes, it's very good.

01:29:11.000 And it also predates.

01:29:12.000 See, they picked up when the trial came back.

01:29:15.000 So the beginning episodes of the Dropout all detail the scam and all detail all the stuff that was going on. 0.94

01:29:22.000 The people that were working, they were slowly figuring out, like, what the fuck are we doing here?

01:29:26.000 And then it went away for a while and then came back during the trial.

01:29:31.000 So now it's detailing all the things that the prosecution is finding.

01:29:36.000 Oh, so it must be.

01:29:37.000 No, it's not the civil trial.

01:29:38.000 It is the current trial.

01:29:39.000 Because they were specifically discussing these documents that they had put Pfizer's label on.

01:29:47.000 So they made it look like this document was coming from Pfizer.

01:29:51.000 Like saying, oh, this stuff is amazing.

01:29:53.000 But really, it was just internal from Theranos.

01:29:56.000 It's wild.

01:29:58.000 One of the things that I love about it is I'm always fascinated by con artists and cult leaders and people who manage to pull the wool over people's eyes.

01:30:10.000 But when people do it in a clumsy way and still get really far, she was clumsy.

01:30:17.000 She wasn't just a little clumsy.

01:30:20.000 You know how I got obsessed with this?

01:30:23.000 This is really weird.

01:30:24.000 She was giving a speech, and this was before I had any idea that there was anything wrong with the company.

01:30:30.000 Oh, so this is pre-15.

01:30:30.000 Yes, yes, yes, yes.

01:30:32.000 Before she got caught, she was giving some speech at some women's group. 0.65

01:30:40.000 Some exceptional women were all getting together, and she gave us this speech. 0.73

01:30:46.000 And the speech was so bad.

01:30:49.000 That I was fascinated. 1.00

01:30:50.000 I was like, that's a moron. 1.00

01:30:53.000 This is not a smart person. 1.00

01:30:54.000 This is a dumb, clunky speech. 1.00

01:30:58.000 Because I'm a professional orator. 1.00

01:31:00.000 That's what I do.

01:31:01.000 I talk.

01:31:02.000 And so when I see someone that's talking and she's basically, these women are amazing. 1.00

01:31:08.000 All you amazing women.

01:31:09.000 I'm just so pro amazing women.

01:31:11.000 Is that the speech? 1.00

01:31:13.000 Let me hear this dumb speech. 0.99

01:31:14.000 I am so incredibly humbled and... 0.99

01:31:19.000 So honored to be with this incredible group of women.

01:31:23.000 I want to just take a minute to say, especially to the young women in the room here, do everything you can to be the best in science and math and engineering. 0.96

01:31:37.000 It's our actions that will determine this new stereotype around women being the best in science and technology and engineering, and it's that That our little girls will see when they start to think about who do they want to be when they grow up.

01:31:55.000 Okay, I saw that. 0.99

01:31:56.000 I'm like, that's a moron. 1.00

01:31:58.000 That's a moron. 1.00

01:31:59.000 You want women to be the best at science and engineering and math? 1.00

01:32:03.000 Like, what the fuck are you talking about? 0.99

01:32:05.000 You want one gender to be the best at science and engineering and math, and you want women just do your best to be the best. 1.00

01:32:13.000 I was like, oh my god, that's an idiot. 1.00

01:32:15.000 And so I got obsessed with her. 1.00

01:32:18.000 So when that was going on, that's when I got obsessed. 0.99

01:32:21.000 And then when the fucking scam got released, was it the Washington Post? 0.99

01:32:25.000 Wall Street Journal. 1.00

01:32:26.000 I was like, aha! 0.99

01:32:27.000 I fucking called it! 0.99

01:32:29.000 I knew something was off. 0.99

01:32:31.000 I remember watching that and going, what is, what, how?

01:32:34.000 How?

01:32:35.000 Like, I would hear Steve Jobs talk.

01:32:36.000 The one thing I could never understand, but it wasn't enough, I just didn't care enough, but in retrospect, it was so obvious.

01:32:44.000 There was not a single person who understood the laboratory space on her board.

01:32:50.000 Oh.

01:32:51.000 So remember, her board was the who's who, right?

01:32:55.000 You had General Mattis, you had Henry Kissinger, you had Dick Kovacevic.

01:32:59.000 I mean, she had the most all-star corporate board in the history of boards. 0.77

01:33:06.000 Not one of these guys knew the difference between a pipette and a microscope.

01:33:09.000 Ooh.

01:33:11.000 Like, that's a red flag.

01:33:12.000 Yeah, that's smart, though.

01:33:15.000 That's the smart con.

01:33:17.000 The other thing that got me was the affectation.

01:33:21.000 The detail of the wardrobe and the outfit.

01:33:27.000 She was a little Jobs. 1.00

01:33:29.000 Yeah, she was clearly a little.

01:33:31.000 But when you heard Steve Jobs talk...

01:33:33.000 Steve Jobs had a vision.

01:33:35.000 Here's my vision.

01:33:36.000 This is what I think can happen.

01:33:37.000 And he would talk and he'd go, well, that's a brilliant, completely obsessed man.

01:33:43.000 Like, this person is very brilliant and it makes sense that this is the head of this incredibly innovative company. 1.00

01:33:50.000 When I heard her talk, I was like, who's this idiot that you have talking? 1.00

01:33:54.000 This is not a person that spent a lot of time thinking, right? 1.00

01:33:58.000 If you went to college for a long period of time and really worked on your grammar and your understanding of the correct use of language to inspire and challenge people's ideas, that's not the fucking speech you'd give, right? 0.96

01:34:14.000 That was pretty bad. 0.98

01:34:15.000 It was terrible!

01:34:17.000 But it wasn't just terrible, it was clunky.

01:34:19.000 And there was something about it for me that made me think, like, what's going on here?

01:34:26.000 That doesn't make any sense.

01:34:27.000 And I thought, well, maybe she's just awkward when she speaks publicly. 0.88

01:34:31.000 You know, you have those initial impressions, and you go, well, maybe I'm just fucking reading into it wrong.

01:34:37.000 Because I've been wrong before, but not that time.

01:34:44.000 I'm fascinated that she wouldn't let you look into the box.

01:34:47.000 Because I guess if you looked into the box, you would immediately be able to be...

01:34:51.000 I don't know that I would have.

01:34:52.000 I don't want to overstate my credentials.

01:34:54.000 I'm not a clinical chemist.

01:34:55.000 She could have duped me, I'm sure.

01:34:58.000 And again, we're under NDA. We're talking about me joining her company as a chief medical officer.

01:35:04.000 How are you not going to let me see inside this freaking box? 0.72

01:35:07.000 Like, what do you want? 0.97

01:35:08.000 How am I going to do my job?

01:35:10.000 How could she have duped you, though, if she's not technically astute?

01:35:14.000 Like, she doesn't really understand it.

01:35:16.000 I don't know if she could.

01:35:16.000 I mean, look, she presumably duped people smarter than me, right?

01:35:20.000 I think she duped...

01:35:21.000 This is what drives me crazy.

01:35:22.000 I think she duped people from the image.

01:35:25.000 I think they wanted to believe...

01:35:27.000 They wanted to believe that there was this female wonderkind who left Stanford at 19 years old, dropped out of school, and figured out this amazing technology and along the way became, at least until she got busted, the richest self-made woman ever.

01:35:41.000 She was worth, I think, like her own personal- Four and a half billion.

01:35:44.000 Yeah.

01:35:45.000 Crazy. 0.56

01:35:46.000 Crazy. 0.94

01:35:47.000 Crazy. 1.00

01:35:47.000 And she just faked it. 1.00

01:35:49.000 And one of the ways she got busted was people from college that she went to school with were like, why are you talking like that?

01:35:55.000 Like, what's happening?

01:35:56.000 And then people started hearing that that wasn't her real voice.

01:35:59.000 And then people started, like, rumors and murmurs.

01:36:02.000 There's so many layers to that story.

01:36:05.000 Oh, man, no doubt.

01:36:06.000 Yeah, it's a fascinating one.

01:36:08.000 It really is.

01:36:09.000 It's such an interesting story.

01:36:11.000 So, for you, when all that was going down, that must have been incredibly sweet.

01:36:18.000 Because now you don't have to think, man, I missed out on all that money.

01:36:21.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:36:22.000 And I was also, I felt a little bit validated.

01:36:25.000 Like, okay, there was a reason she didn't want to show me the inside of the box.

01:36:28.000 Right.

01:36:29.000 Yeah.

01:36:30.000 Yeah.

01:36:31.000 It might have been empty.

01:36:32.000 It literally might have been empty.

01:36:34.000 There was candy in there.

01:36:37.000 It's a giant little thing.

01:36:39.000 Dude, she got so many people. 0.84

01:36:41.000 She got Betsy DeVos for like $100 million. 1.00

01:36:44.000 And poor General Mattis.

01:36:46.000 The guy didn't have two nickels to rub together when he gets out of the military.

01:36:49.000 He put like a couple hundred K in or something obscene for him.

01:36:52.000 Yeah.

01:36:55.000 Crazy.

01:36:56.000 Whenever someone comes to me, like some guy came to me with some crazy, I mean, I don't know if it's real, so I don't want to talk about it, like say it specifically, but if it's true, it sounds like this guy's going to revolutionize a form of travel.

01:37:08.000 And so he's telling me about this.

01:37:10.000 I was like, wow.

01:37:11.000 And then I said to my business manager, who was with me at the time, I go, don't ever forget about Theranos.

01:37:17.000 Whenever someone tells you something, the moment someone tells me, I go, yeah, yeah.

01:37:21.000 When it happens, I'll believe you. 0.99

01:37:23.000 I don't want to be involved in any groundbreaking shit before it actually launches, especially in some area where I'm completely ignorant. 0.98

01:37:31.000 And what am I going to do? 0.99

01:37:32.000 Just start going to school?

01:37:33.000 Try to figure out engineering?

01:37:36.000 Think of this guy saying something that's actually possible and plausible?

01:37:40.000 Nah, can't do it.

01:37:42.000 Not interested, buddy.

01:37:45.000 So for you, though, when it did come out, though, there had to be like a cool feeling of satisfaction.

01:37:51.000 There had to be a little something there.

01:37:53.000 I mean, the first person I called was my buddy, the guy who had introduced me to her way back.

01:37:58.000 And I was like, dude, what are the dinner conversations like?

01:38:01.000 And he's like, oh, dude, it's not good.

01:38:03.000 Because his father-in-law was still in the believing camp. 0.99

01:38:06.000 Oh, no.

01:38:08.000 Oh, yeah.

01:38:08.000 They talk about him in the...

01:38:10.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:38:10.000 Oh, fuck. 1.00

01:38:12.000 So it was... 1.00

01:38:13.000 So he got duped long after the jig was up, right?

01:38:17.000 Yeah.

01:38:18.000 Again, I don't know the details, but it was...

01:38:21.000 I was like, man. 1.00

01:38:24.000 Fuck. 1.00

01:38:24.000 It's good that we didn't do that, but... 1.00

01:38:25.000 It's one of the great scams of our time because you have to wonder how they ever thought they were going to get away with it.

01:38:33.000 There really was no technology.

01:38:36.000 There really was nothing that was capable of doing what they were saying it was going to be able to be done.

01:38:41.000 Yeah, there's an interesting psychology there, right?

01:38:43.000 Yeah.

01:38:43.000 Which is, on any given day, it's not a crisis, right?

01:38:48.000 Like, you can always fake it for one more day, right?

01:38:50.000 Right.

01:38:51.000 So, what's the end?

01:38:52.000 Like, what's the end game?

01:38:54.000 How do they not have cancer? 0.99

01:38:55.000 Like, if stress gives you cancer, imagine the stress of, like, duping people out of nine billion, and you're sitting around knowing that your voice is fake, and you're wearing a black turtleneck, and people that you went to college with are like, hey, that bitch doesn't even talk like that. 1.00

01:39:09.000 I hear the text messages between her and Sunny were pretty funny. 0.58

01:39:13.000 Because I read an article that said, if you really want to incentivize people to not commit crime, just let them know that all of their cheesy text messages are going to be made public.

01:39:23.000 Oh, wow. 1.00

01:39:25.000 Apparently, there's just some super embarrassing idiotic text messages. 1.00

01:39:30.000 He drove a Lamborghini to the office, too, which is also hilarious. 1.00

01:39:35.000 It's just so crazy.

01:39:37.000 But it just shows you that there is this incredible market for people to try to optimize their health and try to figure out what's wrong with them.

01:39:46.000 And if you can make it...

01:39:47.000 It's more simple than it actually is.

01:39:50.000 Which is really...

01:39:51.000 Except I don't even think...

01:39:52.000 That's the other thing about it.

01:39:52.000 It wasn't that freaking interesting.

01:39:54.000 Right.

01:39:55.000 Like, who cares if there's a little box that I can put a drop of blood on that tells me what my CBC and Chem 7 and, you know, pick your other panel.

01:40:02.000 It's not that interesting.

01:40:04.000 Okay, yes, it's a little more convenient than going to LabCorp and giving a tube of blood.

01:40:08.000 What's interesting is what you do with that knowledge.

01:40:10.000 What do you do with that information?

01:40:13.000 Well, I think what was interesting for what she was providing was Safeway was going to buy into it.

01:40:18.000 Was it Walgreens?

01:40:19.000 Yeah, Walgreens.

01:40:21.000 Walgreens, I believe, backed out. 0.99

01:40:23.000 I think they realized somewhere along the line that she was full of shit, and there was some text messages and emails that they read out from the CEO, because he had retired before it ever came to fruition, and then they backed out of it. 0.98

01:40:37.000 But Safeway wanted to put them all in the stores and so you could be able to go shopping for food get your blood taken a little tiny pinprick and find out if anything's wrong with you right there and then But again, it still comes down to having somebody that can actually tell you what's wrong. 0.98

01:40:51.000 And by the way, the stuff that was relevant, it's not like they're going to measure LP little a.

01:40:54.000 It's not like they're going to tell you your APOE4 status.

01:40:56.000 It's not like they're going to tell you, like, of the 10 most relevant things that I would look at in somebody's blood, they weren't measuring any of them.

01:41:02.000 Is APOE4 the stuff that makes you more susceptible to CTE? It probably makes you more susceptible to CTE. It definitely makes you more susceptible to Alzheimer's disease.

01:41:12.000 But today we know it's more nuanced.

01:41:15.000 We know that there are other genes that can be protective and can completely abrogate the effect of APOE4, which is the gene that's the more risky one.

01:41:24.000 When you hear about, I don't know what the gene is, but there is a gene that predisposes someone to breast cancer.

01:41:31.000 BRCA. Is that what it is?

01:41:33.000 Yeah.

01:41:33.000 And when Angelina Jolie actually had her breast removed as a preemptive measure, does that make sense to you?

01:41:39.000 Yeah.

01:41:39.000 Really?

01:41:40.000 Yeah.

01:41:40.000 Wow.

01:41:40.000 So it's that possible?

01:41:43.000 It's depending on, there's two variants of the gene, but it can have up to a 80 or 90% lifetime incidence of breast cancer. 0.59

01:41:51.000 Wow.

01:41:52.000 And what's even more frightening is the ovarian cancer.

01:41:57.000 Because, you know, a woman suffers far more from a prophylactic oophorectomy than a mastectomy.

01:42:03.000 And from an endocrine perspective.

01:42:05.000 I mean, socially, obviously, there's challenges of a mastectomy.

01:42:08.000 But from an endocrine perspective, if you took a 35-year-old woman and just took her ovaries out, you're putting her in menopause.

01:42:14.000 Wow.

01:42:15.000 So the consequences are huge.

01:42:17.000 As far as the way she feels, mood swings, behavior.

01:42:19.000 Oh, my God.

01:42:20.000 It's devastating.

01:42:21.000 Yeah.

01:42:23.000 That gene that predisposes a woman to breast cancer, would you say it was again?

01:42:29.000 BRCA. How common is that?

01:42:30.000 Oh, that's a good question.

01:42:32.000 It's not that common.

01:42:33.000 It is not remotely common as far as the leading.

01:42:38.000 Breast cancer is obviously a pretty common cancer to women. 1.00

01:42:44.000 I would guess that 5% maybe would be BRCA associated, if not less.

01:42:49.000 And is her action of doing that, is that a common move now?

01:42:54.000 I'm certainly seeing more women who are BRCA positive undergoing prophylactic mastectomy.

01:43:01.000 And when they undergo this prophylactic mastectomy, they actually can retain the initial appearance of breast now. 0.75

01:43:10.000 So they do it knowing that they're going to do that and then they replace it with a breast, an artificial prosthesis. 0.99

01:43:18.000 Fuck, that's one thing that dudes don't have to think about. 1.00

01:43:21.000 Breast cancer. 1.00

01:43:23.000 Yeah, I mean I guess the equivalent for males is prostate cancer in terms of like a gender specific cancer.

01:43:30.000 And so if you look, like lung cancer is the number one killer for both men and women in terms of death rate.

01:43:37.000 More than heart attacks?

01:43:39.000 Oh, no, no.

01:43:39.000 I'm sorry.

01:43:39.000 Within cancers.

01:43:40.000 Heart attack is still number one.

01:43:42.000 But, you know, breast and prostate are very high up on the list of killing along with colon cancer.

01:43:48.000 Those are sort of your big three.

01:43:51.000 Prostate cancer is a bit complicated because every man will die with prostate cancer.

01:43:57.000 Some will die from it.

01:43:59.000 Whoa, every man will die with some- Yeah, if you live long enough, absolutely.

01:44:02.000 By the time you're 50, like you and I, there's a greater than 50% chance one of us has prostate cancer right now. 1.00

01:44:09.000 Holy shit! 0.99

01:44:10.000 So if you and I were killed in a car accident tomorrow, and they took our prostates out and sectioned them up, the likelihood that they would find prostate cancer cells in one of us is at least 50%. 1.00

01:44:21.000 And those cells may or may not be a problem.

01:44:25.000 Statistically speaking, they're not going to be a problem.

01:44:27.000 Because remember this, with the exception of the brain, you don't die from cancer unless it spreads.

01:44:34.000 So the brain is the one exception to that rule, right?

01:44:36.000 If you have brain cancer, it can kill you just staying in your brain.

01:44:40.000 But if you have lung cancer, or let's use prostate cancer or breast cancer, a woman never dies because breast cancer invades her breast. 1.00

01:44:49.000 She dies because it spreads to her brain, her bones, her lungs, her liver.

01:44:53.000 Same with prostate cancer.

01:44:55.000 Prostate cancer almost always spreads to the bone, and that's the only time you die.

01:44:58.000 So if prostate cancer stays in the prostate, there's no death.

01:45:02.000 If someone has a very small amount of prostate cancer, is there a thing that they can do to mitigate its spread?

01:45:09.000 Oh, absolutely, yeah.

01:45:10.000 So you can remove the prostate surgically.

01:45:12.000 This is a technique that was pioneered by a guy named Pat Walsh at Johns Hopkins in the 1980s.

01:45:18.000 It wasn't that taking out the prostate was hard, it was taking it out while preserving sexual function was really hard.

01:45:24.000 Because the neurovascular bundle of Walsh, which now bears his name, which is what controls erectile function, wraps around the thing you're trying to cut out.

01:45:35.000 So it's like, how do you cut this gland out without taking out all of the nervous tissue that you need to maintain an erection?

01:45:43.000 And so basically, prior to Walsh, you were almost guaranteed to never be able to get an erection after you had your prostate taken out.

01:45:50.000 So you were staring down the barrel of not two very attractive choices.

01:45:55.000 How many guys went out in their shield?

01:45:59.000 I'm keeping my heart out.

01:46:01.000 I'll die young.

01:46:02.000 So the goal is to basically identify a guy with prostate cancer who has the variant that's going to spread.

01:46:10.000 So today, this has been, I mean, there's been so much progress in this field.

01:46:15.000 So we use a blood test called a 4K score.

01:46:18.000 So you know what a PSA is?

01:46:19.000 You've probably had your PSA checked a bunch of times.

01:46:22.000 PSA by itself is not a great blood test.

01:46:25.000 You have to use more information than just the PSA. You have to know the PSA velocity and the PSA density.

01:46:31.000 So the velocity is what's the rate of change of the PSA, and the density is dividing the PSA by the prostate volume.

01:46:39.000 So if you get an MRI or an ultrasound, you can tell the volume of the prostate in grams, or the volume, and then you can turn it into grams.

01:46:45.000 So you normalize PSA to volume or mass, and you have a density.

01:46:50.000 And those two things become more suggestive.

01:46:52.000 So once the PSA starts to look a little bit suspicious, and once it gets over about four, we do this 4K blood test, which is another form of liquid biopsy.

01:47:02.000 And that gives you a much more interesting number.

01:47:06.000 It basically tells you what's the probability that this person is going to have metastatic prostate cancer, not just prostate cancer.

01:47:14.000 And if that 4K number is above a certain threshold, I think 7.5%, the probability that they're going to have metastatic prostate cancer approaches 85-90%.

01:47:26.000 What are your thoughts on ketogenic diets in relation to cancer?

01:47:31.000 Like, there's been a lot of articles written about the idea that cancer needs glucose to survive and then if you can keep your body functioning off of ketones, it's less likely that you get cancer.

01:47:44.000 Does that make sense?

01:47:45.000 Yeah, no, definitely.

01:47:46.000 You know, I was on a ketogenic diet for three years.

01:47:48.000 Yeah, I know you were.

01:47:49.000 And so I was super steeped in all of this stuff.

01:47:53.000 What made you get off of it?

01:47:55.000 It became just really difficult.

01:47:57.000 I mean, I was so strict.

01:47:58.000 I didn't take a day off.

01:47:59.000 I took one day off in three years.

01:48:02.000 But the stuff I had to give up, like even, like one of my favorite things is stir fry.

01:48:07.000 Like I love huge curry stir fry that I make.

01:48:11.000 And even something that's that, it's just vegetables, but it was still too much to keep in.

01:48:16.000 It was too much carbohydrate to stay in ketosis.

01:48:19.000 So I just kind of missed.

01:48:20.000 And also at that point I was switching more from ultra distance swimming and stuff into shorter distance swimming.

01:48:28.000 Like I was doing more, you know, pool racing and more just shorter distance stuff.

01:48:33.000 Also on the bike, I was going less from ultra-distance bike stuff to a 20-kilometer race or a 40-kilometer race.

01:48:41.000 So as you move towards that new energy system, you just need more carbohydrates.

01:48:46.000 But anyway, to your question, I think there's an awesome theoretical argument for it, but it's also important to understand that even when you're on a ketogenic diet, your glucose isn't zero.

01:48:57.000 It's all about probabilistic reduction, right?

01:49:00.000 It's keeping insulin lower.

01:49:01.000 That probably has a greater effect than keeping glucose lower.

01:49:04.000 Because if you're on a ketogenic diet and you're not on a ketogenic diet, we're talking about a difference of one millimolar in glucose.

01:49:11.000 So it's probably more the presence of the ketone, the reduction of the insulin, if anything, that's having a role.

01:49:18.000 What I think is most interesting is not just a ketogenic diet.

01:49:21.000 It's when you combine it with a drug called a PI3 kinase inhibitor, which is a drug that blocks a very important pathway for cancer to grow, but has one escape valve, which is it raises insulin.

01:49:35.000 So that's a bad thing if you're trying to minimize cancer.

01:49:39.000 So when you combine a ketogenic diet with a PI3 kinase inhibitor, at least in animal studies, which is about the extent of where this has been studied so far, the results look really good.

01:49:50.000 Because PI3 kinase inhibitors by themselves have not panned out, even though theoretically they should.

01:49:55.000 They should be amazing for cancer.

01:49:58.000 They haven't been great.

01:50:00.000 And it's been speculated that that's because of that escape valve, which is it pops off to a higher insulin level.

01:50:04.000 So when you layer on top of that a ketogenic diet, it seems to work really well.

01:50:08.000 And anecdotally, one of my good friends from med school, his wife has metastatic breast cancer.

01:50:15.000 She was diagnosed, God, probably seven or eight years ago.

01:50:19.000 So metastatic breast cancer is a death sentence. 0.99

01:50:21.000 It's unsurvivable.

01:50:22.000 She was enrolled in a clinical trial in Boston that was using PI3K inhibitors.

01:50:28.000 And so she got one of these drugs.

01:50:31.000 She's the only woman to this day that's still alive.

01:50:34.000 Whoa.

01:50:34.000 And she went on a ketogenic diet.

01:50:36.000 Now, again.

01:50:37.000 How many years ago?

01:50:38.000 Seven or eight.

01:50:39.000 And what is the usual lifespan of someone who gets diagnosed?

01:50:43.000 I mean, five years, maybe.

01:50:45.000 Less, probably.

01:50:47.000 And is she deteriorating?

01:50:49.000 Is she maintaining?

01:50:50.000 Yeah.

01:50:50.000 No, she literally has this one little foci of metastatic disease in her hip still, so this one little nubbin of potential cancer inside her hip bone, but it's stayed static.

01:51:05.000 I mean, it's causing some structural issues.

01:51:08.000 Obviously, her hip's weaker, but it's kind of amazing.

01:51:14.000 Her story is actually kind of one of the things that's got some of the people who develop these drugs thinking about this idea of combining ketogenic diets with PI3K inhibitors to try to squash the insulin level and minimize basically that escape route for cancer.

01:51:30.000 Wow.

01:51:32.000 And there's other ways to do this pharmacologically, right?

01:51:34.000 Like you could argue combining it with metformin or something else that's going to lower insulin would also potentially work.

01:51:40.000 And metformin is that anti-aging drug that's fairly controversial as well too, right?

01:51:46.000 Yeah, I don't know if it's that controversial.

01:51:47.000 I mean, it's...

01:51:48.000 It is in terms of human performance.

01:51:50.000 Well, yeah.

01:51:50.000 So the reason I stopped taking it three years ago, I took it for probably eight years, but three years ago I stopped because it does impair mitochondrial function, at least at the level that I can measure it.

01:52:04.000 So I measure my lactate levels when I'm exercising in a certain type of exercise every day.

01:52:10.000 And I'm basically trying to generate the highest amount of power I can generate on a bike while keeping lactate below 2 millimole.

01:52:19.000 And that's like the limit of my mitochondrial throughput as kind of my maximum aerobic efficiency.

01:52:26.000 And when I was on metformin, I just noticed like...

01:52:30.000 I was hitting that lactate level higher than I believed I should hit it, just based on my fitness.

01:52:35.000 Is lactate...

01:52:37.000 Is that lactic acid?

01:52:38.000 Is it the same thing?

01:52:39.000 Synonymous, yeah.

01:52:40.000 So you would develop more with metformin.

01:52:44.000 That's right.

01:52:44.000 So it would make your performance less effective, but...

01:52:48.000 What if you took the metformin after exercise?

01:52:51.000 It stuck around too long.

01:52:52.000 So I had tried all that stuff.

01:52:54.000 I would take the metformin immediately.

01:52:56.000 Exactly.

01:52:56.000 You said I'd take it immediately after exercise, but it would still be in my system.

01:53:00.000 24 hours later.

01:53:01.000 Yeah.

01:53:01.000 So I then said, well, what if I stopped metformin altogether?

01:53:04.000 What if you intermittently took metformin and intermittently exercised?

01:53:08.000 All great questions.

01:53:10.000 Is there a half-life in terms of?

01:53:12.000 Eventually it'll wash out, but I think exercise is the single most important longevity drug we have, bar none.

01:53:19.000 If you said, I want to go deep down the rabbit hole of living longer, what do I need to do?

01:53:26.000 It's a super well-crafted exercise program that is geared towards strength, muscle mass, and cardiorespiratory fitness.

01:53:33.000 So it's all of the above.

01:53:34.000 It's not just one.

01:53:35.000 Right.

01:53:36.000 I mean, the hazard ratios for each of these are pretty interesting.

01:53:38.000 This has become like each year I try to bring one new focus into our practice.

01:53:43.000 And the past 12 months, the focus has been entirely around taking exercise to a new level in terms of our understanding of how to fine-tune it.

01:53:53.000 And the data are unbelievable, right?

01:53:56.000 So everybody knows that if you smoke or have diabetes, your risk of death goes up a lot.

01:54:02.000 But your risk of death from having high cardiorespiratory fitness goes down by much more than your risk of death goes up from smoking or diabetes.

01:54:13.000 So smoking and diabetes will double or triple your risk of death depending on the time frame you're looking at.

01:54:21.000 Having very high cardiorespiratory fitness, so having a VO2 max that is elite, we would define that as the top 2.5% of the population, compared to below average, is a five-fold reduction in all-cause mortality.

01:54:35.000 Wow.

01:54:35.000 Death from any kind.

01:54:38.000 Whoa.

01:54:39.000 I mean, we don't have drugs that have a 5X reduction in mortality.

01:54:45.000 That's incredible, and that's just elite cardiovascular health.

01:54:49.000 Right.

01:54:49.000 And then when you layer in strength and muscle mass, we actually now have pretty good data as to the fact that strength is more important than muscle mass.

01:54:58.000 Muscle mass is a good proxy for strength, but if you just focus on strength, that's the metric that matters.

01:55:02.000 It's about a threefold reduction in all-cause mortality when you compare high strength to low strength.

01:55:09.000 And the tests are, you know, we're talking, it's not like how much you can squat and deadlift.

01:55:13.000 It's like grip strength, dead hang, how long can you do like an air squat?

01:55:19.000 You know, like what's your quad strength?

01:55:21.000 How quickly can you do five reps up and down from a chair?

01:55:24.000 I mean, it's relatively simple stuff, but when you stratify people by those metrics and you compare the highest to the lowest performers, there's just no comparison.

01:55:33.000 Is there a point of diminishing returns, though, where you just get really, really strong, but it's not helping you any more than being fairly strong?

01:55:40.000 On the strength data, we don't see it because the data have only been parsed out as high to low.

01:55:45.000 On the cardiorespiratory, there is a point of diminishing return.

01:55:48.000 So remember I said elite is the top 2.5%.

01:55:53.000 So we break them into five categories, but they're not equal in bucket size.

01:55:57.000 You get most of the benefit, honestly, by going from not fit at all to average fit.

01:56:03.000 That gives you three of the 5X. Yeah.

01:56:06.000 Now that said, I hold myself and my patients to a way higher standard, which is we have a chart that shows all the data by age, by gender, and by VO2 max.

01:56:17.000 And I would say, if you're a 52-year-old male, I'm asking you to have the VO2 max of an elite 42-year-old male.

01:56:25.000 So I want you to be a decade younger elite.

01:56:28.000 And then we do the same thing with strength metrics.

01:56:31.000 And when you prescribe that, like say if you take a 52-year-old male that doesn't have a history of cardiovascular activity, maybe they lightly work out at the gym or something like that, what particular exercises do you think are the best to achieve that result?

01:56:47.000 So we'd start with a base of zone 2. So this zone 2 is that lactate thing I was talking about.

01:56:52.000 So your zone 2 is defined as the highest level of aerobic output that you can generate while keeping lactate below 2 millimole.

01:57:00.000 So I think a bike is the easiest way to do this because...

01:57:03.000 Stationary or...?

01:57:05.000 Stationary just because you can keep it steady state.

01:57:08.000 When you're on the road, you're all over the place.

01:57:10.000 So if you're on a stationary bike, and also wattage is such an easy metric for people to understand.

01:57:17.000 So how many watts are you putting out, right?

01:57:19.000 So the first thing we would do is say you probably need to be doing at least three hours a week of that zone two, which is building an aerobic base.

01:57:28.000 So four 45-minute sessions at zone two, constantly driving it up.

01:57:34.000 And honestly, one session of VO2 max training per week, and the best protocol for that is the 4x4 protocol.

01:57:40.000 So that's four minutes at the highest output you can sustain.

01:57:44.000 So here you could do it on an air bike or something, right?

01:57:47.000 So you could do what's the highest wattage you can hold for four minutes, and then four minute recovery, and do five of those sets once a week.

01:57:56.000 So when you're doing that, do you think that the best is like an airdyne that works the arms and the legs?

01:58:02.000 Or do you think just a regular bike that just works the legs?

01:58:05.000 Like what is...

01:58:06.000 For zone two, I mean, it really just matters that you're consistent.

01:58:10.000 But I think most people find you can do a higher output when you're on an air bike in terms of absolute wattage because you are leveraging upper and lower body.

01:58:19.000 It really doesn't matter that much.

01:58:22.000 I mean, you can do this on a treadmill.

01:58:23.000 You can do this on a stair climber.

01:58:24.000 You can do this on...

01:58:25.000 Any kind of cardiovascular activity, but you need 45 minutes four times a week.

01:58:29.000 That seems to be the minimum effective dose on Zone 2. Now, if someone's super deconditioned, it can probably be three 30-minute sessions to start, and they'll see benefit.

01:58:39.000 Interesting.

01:58:40.000 And then as far as a strength program, do you recommend specific exercises?

01:58:46.000 Is it like squat, deadlift?

01:58:49.000 Well, this is where it gets very dependent on the person.

01:58:51.000 So we have a test that we put our patients through that's 10 exercises.

01:58:56.000 And they're all basically normalized to your body weight and gender.

01:59:00.000 So like a dead hang.

01:59:02.000 So how long can you hang from a bar dead?

01:59:05.000 How long should you be able to hold?

01:59:07.000 Well, we hold males to the standard of two minutes and females to a minute and a half at the age of 40. So then it gets discounted by decade.

01:59:17.000 You know, what's interesting, when we were hosting Fear Factor, Dead Hang was one of the stunts.

01:59:22.000 These people hung from a chin-up bar that was over a bridge into a river.

01:59:27.000 Do you remember how long people could go?

01:59:28.000 No, but the women won. 1.00

01:59:30.000 Interesting.

01:59:31.000 Yeah.

01:59:32.000 We had a big jack guy. 0.99

01:59:34.000 He was fucking pretty stout. 0.99

01:59:37.000 And he fell into the water quicker. 0.99

01:59:40.000 I think it's weight, body weight.

01:59:42.000 Oh, it's harder the more you weigh, of course, but the idea is, in theory, you should be stronger if you're a man as well. 0.96

01:59:49.000 Yeah, but if you're a 250-pound man and you're carrying all that extra weight because you've been doing bodybuilding-type exercises, and especially if you use straps and you don't have that grip, two minutes is a long fucking time, though. 0.85

02:00:03.000 The very first time I did it, I did it after deadlifting.

02:00:07.000 So my grip was a little taxed and I only got to 126. And then about a week later I tried again and I got to two minutes.

02:00:15.000 My longest is a little over three minutes now.

02:00:18.000 I do it twice a week.

02:00:19.000 How much do you weigh?

02:00:21.000 Like 171. And as you get heavier, your hand strength must really need to be a giant factor.

02:00:32.000 If you're dealing with a guy who should be 171, like if you decided to bodybuild and you went to 250, that would probably radically decrease your amount of time.

02:00:42.000 Yeah, although to your point, I would hope that I was using my grip strength to make that happen.

02:00:48.000 I mean, grip strength is probably one of the most correlated indices with longevity.

02:00:54.000 Yeah, I've heard that, but I don't know why.

02:00:55.000 Why is that?

02:00:56.000 There's probably two reasons.

02:00:57.000 One is I used to think it was the obvious reason, which is look at Look at the causes of mortality.

02:01:05.000 We have this thing in our practice called the death bars.

02:01:07.000 So one of my analysts, Bob Kaplan, about a year ago, I said, Bob, I want you to make these five graphs for me.

02:01:14.000 And they're basically everything about the causes of death.

02:01:17.000 So one of them is just show me all cause mortality by decade.

02:01:20.000 Now break it down into the subsets.

02:01:22.000 And one of the most common things is accidental deaths.

02:01:25.000 And this is the most interesting trend is accidental deaths change so much by age.

02:01:30.000 So in our age group, So by the way, accidental deaths are uniform across the population, but they become a much bigger source of death on a per capita basis as you get older because there are fewer older people.

02:01:43.000 In our demographic, most accidental deaths are overdoses.

02:01:47.000 When you're older, they become virtually all falls.

02:01:50.000 90% of accidental deaths are falls.

02:01:52.000 So a fall is a very lethal thing by the time you're 75. Like you and I don't think about it.

02:01:58.000 By the time you're 75, falling is a devastating consequence.

02:02:03.000 Isn't that wild?

02:02:04.000 So think about how strong grip versus weak grip would impact your ability to tolerate a fall.

02:02:10.000 It's, can you get your hand down?

02:02:12.000 Can you grab something when you're falling?

02:02:13.000 All of those things matter a lot.

02:02:15.000 The second reason I think grip strength matters a lot is it is such a good proxy for strength.

02:02:20.000 Because one of the things I've learned in the past year becoming so obsessive with grip strength is how as my hands have gotten stronger, it's alleviated all the shoulders.

02:02:31.000 Like I have a torn labrum here from my swimming days that is so painful.

02:02:35.000 I thought I would never be able to do a dead hang pull up again.

02:02:39.000 Because whenever I was in this full position, I'm putting so much stress on the labrum.

02:02:43.000 So I would just, I was doing pull ups to here, right?

02:02:46.000 Like I would, you know, I'd go from here to here.

02:02:48.000 And then Beth Lewis, this person in our practice who is kind of like our strength guru, she was convinced that if I could just get my grip stronger, I would fix this.

02:02:58.000 And I was like, Beth, that doesn't even make freaking sense.

02:03:00.000 Like, why does having more grip fix my shoulder?

02:03:03.000 But I just started doing everything she said, like all of these dead hang finger exercises and all this other stuff.

02:03:09.000 And now, when I do a pull-up, I can dead hang with zero pain, and I'm just putting all this extra pressure in my finger.

02:03:18.000 And I think the reason is, it is allowing us to potentiate force more stably from our scapula all the way through.

02:03:27.000 And so much of the instability we have in shoulders and all these injuries is just because we don't transmit force correctly.

02:03:33.000 So I think something about having really strong grip just basically fixes so much of the upper body strength imbalances that we have.

02:03:45.000 And again, it's a proxy for people who don't fall.

02:03:49.000 It's a proxy for other things.

02:03:51.000 It is a proxy for muscle mass.

02:03:52.000 The more muscle mass you have, the more glucose you dispose of, the more metabolically healthy you are.

02:03:56.000 So that's my best guess for it.

02:03:59.000 And what exercises do you do besides dead hang?

02:04:03.000 So the other things we have people do is...

02:04:05.000 So another important principle of aging...

02:04:08.000 So think about hunting, right?

02:04:09.000 So where are you more likely to hurt yourself?

02:04:13.000 Walking down a steep hill or walking up a steep hill?

02:04:15.000 Down.

02:04:15.000 Absolutely.

02:04:16.000 Brakes is everything in life.

02:04:18.000 Eccentric strength matters more than concentric strength.

02:04:21.000 Concentric strength is important, but we overemphasize it.

02:04:25.000 We don't train eccentric strength enough.

02:04:27.000 So a big part of this program is how do you train eccentric strength?

02:04:31.000 So one of our metrics is you have to be able to step down from a 16-foot block and take more than three seconds.

02:04:39.000 So you're 16 inches on a block, and you're gonna put one step down, but you have to do it in more than three seconds.

02:04:48.000 So think about how much control you need in the supporting quad to put yourself down that slowly.

02:04:56.000 That's how you walk down stairs and don't hurt yourself.

02:04:58.000 That's how you have the ability to stop yourself if you lose balance.

02:05:05.000 We have eccentric modes as well.

02:05:07.000 So you have to be able to hold 50% of your body weight and do a certain number of box step ups.

02:05:13.000 You have to be able to farmers carry with 75% of your body weight.

02:05:16.000 So we have a whole bunch of other things that have to do with ankle mobility.

02:05:19.000 It's a lot of non-sexy stuff that is our top 10. And, of course, deadlifting and things like that are super important because that's a big part of how you train those things, but we also don't fixate on it.

02:05:31.000 Like, my wife has scoliosis, and if she deadlifts, like, it just puts a little too much stress on her back, so she does hip thrusters instead. 0.97

02:05:38.000 And you can get most of the hip hinge benefit using a hip thruster without having to deadlift.

02:05:42.000 What about kettlebell swings?

02:05:45.000 Amazing exercise, right?

02:05:46.000 Is that good enough as a hip hinge?

02:05:48.000 Yeah, I mean, I think if you're good, I mean, the problem with a kettlebell swing is it requires a ton of technique and coordination.

02:05:55.000 And I think most people don't do it incorrectly.

02:05:57.000 Most people do it incorrectly.

02:05:59.000 But if you're doing it right, it's an amazing exercise.

02:06:03.000 Yeah.

02:06:03.000 So what is your routine?

02:06:05.000 Like, what are the things that you concentrate on?

02:06:07.000 I know I watch your Instagram.

02:06:09.000 You've been doing deadlifting.

02:06:11.000 I love deadlifting.

02:06:12.000 But I don't deadlift heavy these days.

02:06:14.000 Like, I've been deadlifting relatively light, but I do it with, like, a...

02:06:19.000 I do a very heavy focus on eccentrics.

02:06:21.000 I do a no-touch deadlift where I'm only letting 50% of the weight down in between reps, so kind of more staying under constant tension as I lift.

02:06:30.000 Ton of single leg stuff.

02:06:32.000 You can use a fraction of the weight.

02:06:34.000 I started about six months ago doing a lot of blood flow restriction stuff as well, so you're really going light.

02:06:40.000 Interesting.

02:06:40.000 The blood flow restriction stuff is very interesting.

02:06:43.000 Have you done it?

02:06:43.000 No, I haven't, but I've heard great things about it.

02:06:46.000 But I wanted to ask you this before I forget.

02:06:48.000 You had written something once about, I meant to talk to you about this, about deadlifts actually decompressing the spine, which I found so counterintuitive.

02:06:59.000 So how does that work?

02:07:00.000 How are you getting deadlifts to decompress you?

02:07:04.000 And this is easiest in a hex bar deadlift.

02:07:06.000 It's much easier with a hex bar deadlift than a sumo deadlift.

02:07:09.000 That's what I use anyway.

02:07:10.000 The reason is if you have enough intra-abdominal pressure and you're putting your spine at just the right amount of extension, You're actually extending your spine when you lift because of the position of your hip.

02:07:30.000 So it's hard to explain without feeling it, and it took me a really long time to feel this.

02:07:37.000 But have you heard of dynamic neuromuscular stabilization?

02:07:39.000 No.

02:07:40.000 DNS? So it's this discipline that really taught me how to do this kind of intra-abdominal pressure.

02:07:46.000 Where you put a huge amount of pressure in your pelvis, basically.

02:07:52.000 So you ever notice how the really good power lifters have huge abdomens?

02:07:56.000 Yeah.

02:07:57.000 And this is a big part of it, is they can generate so much pressure in their abdomen that they're basically stretching out their spine, pushing out everywhere.

02:08:06.000 So they have kind of a cylinder inside their body.

02:08:09.000 And if you can't do that, you almost have like a triangle in your body with the diaphragm being the top and the pelvis being the bottom.

02:08:17.000 So the force is not going out in all directions in the same way.

02:08:21.000 So what you want is this force to be going out equally.

02:08:24.000 And when I do that with a hex bar deadlift, I can hear my spine actually going like an adjustment.

02:08:34.000 Just the same as when I'm dead hanging.

02:08:35.000 You can sort of hear a crack.

02:08:36.000 Yeah.

02:08:39.000 So, what is the steps?

02:08:41.000 Like, how do you start it?

02:08:42.000 You start on the ground.

02:08:43.000 It's the easiest to do when you're on your back and you have somebody who knows how to cue it initially.

02:08:49.000 So, you know the two hip bones here?

02:08:51.000 Yes.

02:08:51.000 This is called your anterior superior iliac crest.

02:08:54.000 So, I go about two finger breaths in.

02:08:56.000 Two finger breaths down, and as I'm laying on my back, I'm trying to put as much air into there as possible.

02:09:04.000 And you want to imagine that your shorts, which have, you know, the ring that the waistband of your shorts make, you want to make it as big as possible in all directions.

02:09:13.000 So you're trying to get air out into your back, you're trying to get air into your pelvis.

02:09:17.000 So the first step is just being able to do that.

02:09:20.000 And then eventually you want to be able to do that while breathing.

02:09:23.000 Meaning you want to be able to get that pressure out and then take a breath.

02:09:27.000 Because at first you won't be able to do that.

02:09:28.000 At first you'll just blow out and you'll be holding your breath.

02:09:32.000 So the next thing you want to do is be able to hold that while you breathe.

02:09:35.000 And then we do some other exercises before we would go to deadlifting.

02:09:39.000 So now you want to be able to get into certain positions where you're on your front and you're in opposite support.

02:09:45.000 So the obvious one is like a bare position where you're on all fours, but then ultimately we get into these really complicated positions where you're on one elbow and the side of one knee, but you're keeping your pelvis totally level.

02:09:58.000 Like these?

02:09:58.000 Yes, exactly.

02:10:01.000 So for example, basically what DNS comes down to is modeling the neurodevelopment of an infant.

02:10:10.000 So basically, if we're not messed around with when we're kids, we will develop perfectly normally for the first two years of our life.

02:10:17.000 These are the exercises I use to fix my back, Joe.

02:10:20.000 Really?

02:10:20.000 Without even knowing.

02:10:21.000 That's what it was called, yeah.

02:10:23.000 The doctor, it took her a couple weeks to figure it out, but that first thing with like getting, trying to find like this position here where her back is up and her legs are like that, that's basically what fixed it. 0.74

02:10:34.000 And just trying to get that breathing in after a couple weeks, all the pain kind of just kind of went away.

02:10:37.000 So you see the one that's four to five months there, where she's in an eight, so where her left leg is out?

02:10:42.000 Yes.

02:10:42.000 So that's, to me, that is the gangster position that gets you ready to deadlift.

02:10:47.000 When you can do what she's doing and now pick your hips up off the floor and stay perfectly level with only your left leg down and your right elbow down, and you'll feel, your spine will just go.

02:11:00.000 You feel this total expansion, that tells you you have the intra-abdominal control to deadlift.

02:11:06.000 So left leg down, right elbow.

02:11:09.000 Yep, right elbow down.

02:11:10.000 Yep.

02:11:12.000 Opposite, opposite.

02:11:13.000 She's not doing it fully right now, but that's the precursor to that position.

02:11:19.000 And so that's how you start to learn.

02:11:22.000 So then there's expanding in those images right there.

02:11:25.000 You see how they're using, is that the diaphragm that they're using?

02:11:28.000 Yep.

02:11:28.000 To push out?

02:11:29.000 Yep.

02:11:30.000 And so that is what expands your back.

02:11:32.000 Yep.

02:11:33.000 Do you do any decompression in terms of like, you ever use one of those teeter decks tables?

02:11:40.000 Do you know what I'm talking about?

02:11:41.000 Yeah, I do.

02:11:41.000 Not the ones that hang by your ankles, but the one where you hinge from the waist?

02:11:44.000 No, the only thing that I do decompression for is my neck.

02:11:46.000 So I have a device at home every day.

02:11:49.000 I do 10 minutes of neck traction.

02:11:50.000 Oh, you do one of those?

02:11:51.000 Yep.

02:11:52.000 Do you do one with the inflated one that you pump up, or do you do the hang one?

02:11:56.000 Neither.

02:11:57.000 So it's called a Sanders machine.

02:11:59.000 You lay in it, and it grabs your mandible and your occiput, and it pulls you up, and you adjust the poundage.

02:12:07.000 So I do 25 pounds for 10 minutes.

02:12:11.000 What's the machine that you use?

02:12:12.000 What's it called?

02:12:13.000 It's called a Sanders.

02:12:14.000 I bought it.

02:12:15.000 There it is.

02:12:17.000 Oh.

02:12:19.000 Interesting.

02:12:19.000 Because I have one where I hang.

02:12:22.000 That looks safer.

02:12:23.000 This is much safer.

02:12:25.000 Because you would start somebody out at a much lower pounded...

02:12:29.000 Jamie, will you send me this link?

02:12:30.000 Thanks.

02:12:31.000 But you don't have any cervical disc issues, do you?

02:12:34.000 I have.

02:12:34.000 I've had them.

02:12:35.000 Yeah, I had bulging discs.

02:12:37.000 So I would do this under the guidance of a physical therapist just to make sure that they tell you how...

02:12:41.000 I mean, are you literally hanging by your neck right now?

02:12:43.000 No, not fully.

02:12:45.000 But do you know how much weight are you...

02:12:47.000 I just have one of these things that it hooks onto a door, the top of the door, and I pull the thing like this, click, click, click, click, click, click.

02:12:54.000 Oh, okay, okay.

02:12:55.000 And then I can choose to lean into it and put more weight, like let it make my neck decompress more.

02:13:04.000 And then I can pull it up more until it gets to like this.

02:13:07.000 I got it.

02:13:08.000 But it feels good.

02:13:09.000 Where is the pressure being applied?

02:13:11.000 More in the front or more in the back?

02:13:12.000 Kind of like the bolt.

02:13:13.000 Okay.

02:13:14.000 It's a strap and you tighten it down with Velcro and it's like...

02:13:18.000 So the other thing that DNS that I do every day for DNS is...

02:13:22.000 So there are muscles that run on the front of your vertebral bodies and your cervical spine.

02:13:30.000 And they're called deep neck stabilizing muscles.

02:13:33.000 And one of the challenges that most of us have who all have sort of cervical neck issues is those muscles aren't strong enough.

02:13:41.000 They're not fully engaged enough.

02:13:42.000 So another exercise I do when on my back in that position with the intra-abdominal pressure is kind of look down at my chest and without lifting my head up, go through the initiation of a lift up.

02:13:58.000 And to do that, you basically will end up using these deep neck stabilizers as opposed to the scalenes, right?

02:14:04.000 You don't want to be moving your neck or stabilizing your neck with these muscles that are outside.

02:14:08.000 You want to be doing it with the muscles inside.

02:14:10.000 And that's what's extending the spine.

02:14:13.000 You can't feel these muscles.

02:14:14.000 Everything you're feeling right now is sort of superficial.

02:14:17.000 Do you use anything to strengthen your neck, like an iron neck or anything like that?

02:14:20.000 Have you ever?

02:14:21.000 I did when I was boxing, of course.

02:14:23.000 You ever use an iron neck?

02:14:24.000 I don't know.

02:14:25.000 I used to do the thing that you wrap around your head and wrap a plate to it.

02:14:28.000 But the issue with that is that it puts an unnatural amount of leverage on the disc itself.

02:14:33.000 The iron neck is a halo.

02:14:35.000 Do you know what it is?

02:14:36.000 No.

02:14:36.000 I'll give you one.

02:14:37.000 We have a stack of them.

02:14:38.000 They sent me a bunch to give away.

02:14:40.000 But you have a halo, and you pump it up like a Reebok pump.

02:14:45.000 It fits tight to your head, and then there's a 50-pound bungee cord.

02:14:48.000 And so you pull back so that you're under tension, and then you can adjust the amount of tension.

02:14:55.000 See, that guy's using it there.

02:14:57.000 There's a video of the...

02:14:58.000 Oh, there's a video of me with it on.

02:15:00.000 There's a video of me doing it, too, because the guy who...

02:15:03.000 Yeah, this would be kind of cool for driving, because that's a thing in a race car, right?

02:15:08.000 Your neck is under a lot of G-force.

02:15:11.000 Well, the idea behind it is there's the guy who invented it.

02:15:16.000 Is it Mike Jolly?

02:15:17.000 Is that his name?

02:15:18.000 I think so. 0.85

02:15:19.000 He's a former NFL player, big fucking stout fella, and he developed this to aid in people, there's Tom Papa too, to keep people from, there's a lot of folks that get head injuries, and a lot of it is from the weakness of the neck. 0.95

02:15:37.000 And that makes your head snap. 0.92

02:15:40.000 Yeah, I'd love to try it.

02:15:41.000 But with jujitsu, it's gigantic.

02:15:46.000 Because there's no real safe way to train your neck.

02:15:49.000 But with that, my mind... 1.00

02:15:51.000 We used to do neck bridges rolling, all this idiotic stuff. 0.99

02:15:54.000 Yeah, we used to do that too. 0.99

02:15:56.000 But this iron neck thing is way better.

02:15:58.000 Because you don't really do that.

02:16:00.000 But you do do this.

02:16:01.000 So the halo's on, the bungee cord's on, and I go like this.

02:16:04.000 Twist here, twist here, twist here, twist here.

02:16:07.000 And then I turn around, I do it backwards, and then I do it sideways, so I have it going to my right side, I have it going to my left side, and then I do what they call the Stevie Wonder.

02:16:16.000 So I do this thing like this.

02:16:18.000 And the whole idea is that you're not putting that unnatural hinge on your discs.

02:16:24.000 And all of this muscle tissue...

02:16:27.000 It's gotten so much stronger because of it.

02:16:29.000 My neck is bigger.

02:16:31.000 I mean, I haven't measured it, but I mean, shirts that I used to wear, I can't fit anymore.

02:16:36.000 But it's just, it's stronger.

02:16:37.000 It's more stable.

02:16:38.000 Yeah, I'd love to try it.

02:16:39.000 You can have it.

02:16:40.000 I have one for you.

02:16:41.000 There you go.

02:16:43.000 JRE swag. 0.59

02:16:45.000 So I'm going to have to try that with the hex bar.

02:16:47.000 I mean, it seems like I'm going to have to...

02:16:49.000 I mean, start with the positions on the ground.

02:16:52.000 It's easier to show you if I was actually putting you on a mat and having you do it.

02:16:56.000 Well, we'll do that someday.

02:16:56.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:16:58.000 And so you do that.

02:16:59.000 You do those...

02:17:00.000 So I do my four days a week.

02:17:02.000 I do four sessions a week of the 45-minute zone two.

02:17:05.000 So that's the...

02:17:06.000 I'm titrating my wattage to keep lactate at two millimole.

02:17:10.000 I do one session a week of a higher-end anaerobic exercise.

02:17:14.000 I typically do it on a stair machine, you know, those rotating stair machines where I just do, like, I'll do a one-minute sprint, a two-minute easy climb, one-minute sprint, two-minute easy climb, or four-on-four off on a bike, and then four sessions of strength a week,

02:17:30.000 four strength sessions a week, and that's it.

02:17:31.000 Like, I mean, this is the least I've ever exercised in my life.

02:17:33.000 I exercise a total of 10 or 11 hours a week.

02:17:36.000 Which is still, you know, a lot by most people's standards.

02:17:38.000 By most people's standards, it is a lot.

02:17:39.000 But by my standards, that's like nothing. 1.00

02:17:41.000 Well, people need to understand that you're a fucking maniac. 1.00

02:17:44.000 And you swam all the different... 1.00

02:17:47.000 You swam in between all the islands of Hawaii.

02:17:51.000 No, no, no, no.

02:17:51.000 Just Maui and Lanai.

02:17:54.000 But you were trying to do...

02:17:55.000 What was there?

02:17:56.000 There was something going on where they wouldn't let you do it at night, right?

02:17:58.000 Yes.

02:17:58.000 That was that swim.

02:18:00.000 Those are the tiger sharks.

02:18:01.000 What?

02:18:02.000 Because at night it's so dark, you have to pin a glow stick to your bathing suit.

02:18:06.000 And they're like, the boat captain, like I'm going to start at midnight to avoid the wind. 0.96

02:18:09.000 And he's like, dude, you'll be like chum out there with a little glow stick on your butt. 0.98

02:18:13.000 Really? 0.99

02:18:14.000 They would come for you?

02:18:14.000 Yeah, they would love that.

02:18:16.000 Tiger sharks are dangerous, huh?

02:18:19.000 So, for you, 11 hours a week is not a lot.

02:18:22.000 For most people, that's a big commitment, because it's more than an hour a day, seven hours a week.

02:18:26.000 And we'll say to our patients, like, look, what can you do?

02:18:29.000 Can you do six hours a week?

02:18:31.000 But at some point, you've got to do it.

02:18:33.000 Like, you just...

02:18:34.000 You can't say, I want to live long.

02:18:37.000 I want to be a kick-ass 85-year-old and not train for it.

02:18:41.000 It's so logically inconsistent.

02:18:44.000 And I want to be able to hunt when I'm 80. And I want to drive a race car when I'm 80. And if I want to do that, I have to put in a lot of time right now to make sure I'm strong enough to do those things.

02:18:56.000 Yeah, there's no other options, you know, especially for bone density and maintaining muscle mass.

02:19:03.000 There's no other way to do it.

02:19:05.000 Yeah, the data is overwhelming, right?

02:19:07.000 So there's a study that was done that looked at 60, I want to say 65-ish year old folks, and it put them on a super high strength training program.

02:19:16.000 And in six months, they added one, I want to say 1.7 kilos of muscle mass.

02:19:23.000 Wow.

02:19:23.000 That's pretty good.

02:19:23.000 That's like three and a half pounds of muscle.

02:19:25.000 For an old person, that's very good. 0.98

02:19:26.000 Six months of super dedicated training, and I forget exactly how much more protein they were feeding them, but so high protein diet, high training.

02:19:35.000 A separate study took people of basically the same age and put them on 10 days of bed rest.

02:19:44.000 They lost 1.5 kilograms of muscle.

02:19:47.000 Wow.

02:19:49.000 1.5 kilograms of muscle in 10 days of bed rest and did they get it back quickly?

02:19:55.000 No.

02:19:56.000 That was it.

02:19:56.000 It takes a very long time to get it back.

02:19:59.000 And you could lose it all in 10 days of bed rest.

02:20:01.000 You could lose in 10 days what you got in 6 months. 1.00

02:20:04.000 God damn it. 0.99

02:20:05.000 So, I mean, it's like, you know, it's this non-sexy, like, don't stop exercising. 0.99

02:20:13.000 Don't ever get out of shape.

02:20:14.000 And avoid injury like the plague.

02:20:16.000 And as you get older, this loss of muscle mass, what we call sarcopenia, is an enormous killer.

02:20:23.000 Hmm.

02:20:24.000 So sarcopenia is like one of the primary indicators that someone's unhealthy.

02:20:29.000 Yes.

02:20:30.000 Sarcobesity, which is a term that I don't know who coined it, is like the worst of all, right?

02:20:35.000 So that's high amounts of fat, low amounts of muscle.

02:20:38.000 And that's, I mean, that's going to happen to a person naturally, right?

02:20:42.000 You're going to lose about...

02:20:46.000 You're going to lose about a pound of muscle a decade, a little bit more than that, probably two pounds of muscle.

02:20:53.000 No, no, I'm sorry.

02:20:54.000 You're going to lose about, I want to say lose a pound of muscle, gain two pounds of fat every couple of years by the time you're 40 if you don't make it, if you're not super diligent about avoiding it.

02:21:06.000 And do you have a body fat percentage that you like to maintain?

02:21:11.000 For me or just for our patients?

02:21:13.000 For anybody?

02:21:14.000 No.

02:21:15.000 So I think superficial or subcutaneous body fat is so highly genetic that we don't really tend to fixate on it that much.

02:21:23.000 So in other words, for an individual, we care about what their trend is.

02:21:27.000 But like, you know, I'm not that lean anymore.

02:21:30.000 I'm 14, 13% body fat, you know, for me to be below 10% body fat, I have to really, you know, change what I'm eating.

02:21:38.000 And you were at your leanest when you were keto?

02:21:41.000 Yeah, well, as an adult.

02:21:42.000 I was probably leaner when I was boxing.

02:21:44.000 But when I was, like, as an adult, my leanest was 7% when I was keto by DEXA. And that was actually not that hard because, but I was exercising like a fiend and, you know, eating this stupidly strict ketogenic diet.

02:22:01.000 But what I care much more about is visceral fat and what's called ALMI, Appendicular Lean Mass Index.

02:22:08.000 And you can get both of these numbers off of DEXA. So visceral fat is how many pounds of fat do you have around your organs?

02:22:15.000 And that's a far more important predictor of your lifespan.

02:22:19.000 And what causes fat to accumulate around the organs versus subcutaneous?

02:22:24.000 Well, the subcutaneous fat is sort of just, it's your excess depot.

02:22:28.000 I mean, you can store an infinite amount of weight there.

02:22:31.000 The visceral fat probably has to do with hepatic fat.

02:22:35.000 You know, our liver produces a lot of fat.

02:22:39.000 And I mean, if we're unhealthy, right?

02:22:41.000 So the liver will start to store fat.

02:22:44.000 Drunks.

02:22:46.000 People drink a lot.

02:22:47.000 Yeah, alcohol is a huge contributor to it, but of course now there's something called non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, NAFLD, which is probably the leading indicator for liver transplant in the United States now.

02:22:59.000 And that seems to be mostly driven by fructose.

02:23:04.000 Fructose.

02:23:04.000 Yeah.

02:23:05.000 Goddamn corn syrup. 1.00

02:23:07.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:23:07.000 People want to pretend that all fucking sugars are created equal. 1.00

02:23:11.000 They're not, are they? 0.99

02:23:12.000 No.

02:23:12.000 God, no.

02:23:13.000 Isn't that a weird thing, though?

02:23:14.000 Why do people want to say that?

02:23:16.000 It seems like whether they're contrarian or they want to have knowledge that counteracts the narrative that people keep hearing.

02:23:24.000 The narrative that we keep hearing from people like yourself or from a lot of experts is that particular...

02:23:31.000 Particularly high fructose corn syrup is just really bad for you.

02:23:35.000 I mean, I think Rick Johnson's data shows, Rick Johnson is, I think, the world's expert on fructose.

02:23:42.000 What his data show is that there's nothing worse than drinking fructose.

02:23:46.000 Like, if you really want...

02:23:48.000 Orange juice.

02:23:48.000 Yeah, I mean, if you want to drink your sugar...

02:23:53.000 You're putting it on the fast track to the liver.

02:23:55.000 Because your body does not normally encounter that.

02:23:58.000 Your body normally encounters fruit with fiber.

02:24:02.000 There's the speed with which it basically hits the liver is too high.

02:24:06.000 For the liver to process it correctly? 0.50

02:24:08.000 Yeah, and also it gets into other parts of the intestine that it wouldn't get to if you were eating it.

02:24:14.000 So if you took 100 grams of sugar and you ate it in a solid food versus if you drank it, There's actually pretty interesting animal data that the fructose that you drink is making it all the way into the colon, and it's actually increasing the risk of colon cancer in a way that you wouldn't get it through solid consumption.

02:24:33.000 So what about fructose from fruit?

02:24:36.000 Is there any danger in that, or is it just...

02:24:38.000 On a per-molecule basis, it is the same fructose, but the dose, I mean, it's like...

02:24:44.000 You know, one of my favorite drinks is a Paloma, like in far as like a summer cocktail, right?

02:24:48.000 So I noticed this summer when I started making them, like how many grapefruits do I need to squeeze to get a 500 ml thing of grapefruit juice?

02:24:59.000 And it's about 10 grapefruits this big.

02:25:04.000 It kind of occurred to me.

02:25:05.000 I was like, it is so easy for me to drink this thing.

02:25:08.000 Like, I can drink 500 ml of grapefruit juice.

02:25:10.000 So, assume it's orange juice.

02:25:12.000 I could drink 500 ml of orange juice in one chug.

02:25:15.000 I don't have to think about it.

02:25:17.000 Right.

02:25:17.000 Could you eat that many oranges?

02:25:19.000 It'd be hard.

02:25:20.000 You would really have to be motivated.

02:25:22.000 Yeah.

02:25:24.000 So that's why it's just better to eat fruit than drink fruit.

02:25:27.000 Just because of basically the lower dose.

02:25:30.000 The dose and the velocity.

02:25:32.000 You know, I noticed when I was on the carnivore diet for a while.

02:25:35.000 How long were you on it, by the way?

02:25:36.000 Just a month.

02:25:37.000 I did it one month.

02:25:39.000 No, I did it twice.

02:25:40.000 This was like three years ago, two years ago?

02:25:41.000 Yeah, about three years ago and then I did it again a year later.

02:25:45.000 Again, a month.

02:25:49.000 One thing it does do is you lose weight because you just don't eat anything else other than meat and your satiety levels are reached far quicker.

02:25:59.000 You feel satiated in terms of like you don't want to eat any more steak. 0.93

02:26:06.000 But if somebody pushed a bowl of pasta in front of me and said you could eat that too, I'd be like, oh, I'll fucking eat that whole thing. 0.92

02:26:11.000 It's weird. 0.84

02:26:12.000 And you did it super strict.

02:26:14.000 You didn't have a single vegetable.

02:26:15.000 No vegetables.

02:26:16.000 I just ate steaks.

02:26:18.000 I ate mostly ribeye steaks for a month.

02:26:21.000 And I lost 12 pounds.

02:26:23.000 I got ripped.

02:26:24.000 How did you feel?

02:26:25.000 I felt good.

02:26:26.000 I felt a little aggressive.

02:26:27.000 That was what was odd.

02:26:29.000 It was like I was a little extra aggro.

02:26:33.000 Not aggro in a negative way.

02:26:35.000 Like I was more like, argh!

02:26:36.000 Like I had more grrr.

02:26:37.000 How were your workouts?

02:26:38.000 Not that good.

02:26:40.000 The workouts were not that good.

02:26:41.000 Even the pure strength workouts?

02:26:43.000 They were okay.

02:26:44.000 Like grappling would be horrible, right?

02:26:46.000 Right.

02:26:46.000 That's what I'm saying.

02:26:47.000 They were okay, but my ability to maintain for long periods of time was not so hot.

02:26:56.000 Whereas, I could do like a Pavel Tatsylin type workout where I'm doing low reps, large amounts of rest in between the reps, but like rounds in the bag were horrific.

02:27:12.000 It was not good.

02:27:13.000 It was like I got drunk the night before or something, like I was hungover. 0.99

02:27:17.000 I go like, oh, fucking push. 0.99

02:27:20.000 I was trying to push. 0.99

02:27:21.000 But mental clarity was very high.

02:27:24.000 Mental clarity was fine.

02:27:25.000 How was your sleep?

02:27:26.000 Not bad.

02:27:27.000 Sleep is good.

02:27:28.000 No different.

02:27:29.000 Sleep is fine, rather.

02:27:32.000 Mental clarity was high.

02:27:36.000 But I do feel like I had a little bit more grr. 0.99

02:27:39.000 Like, I'm a little bit more like, I gotta go out and fucking get shit done. 0.98

02:27:43.000 Like, I had good energy. 0.96

02:27:44.000 Which is odd that it didn't translate into the workouts.

02:27:47.000 Because it really didn't.

02:27:48.000 Well, you were glycogen depleted.

02:27:51.000 You were down to 40% glycogen in your muscles.

02:27:53.000 I'm sure.

02:27:54.000 But why did I have mental clarity?

02:27:57.000 You probably had ketones floating around and you had no glucose fluctuation.

02:28:03.000 No glucose fluctuation, I think, is it.

02:28:05.000 Is that a negative way to eat?

02:28:08.000 A carnivore?

02:28:09.000 Yeah.

02:28:11.000 Look, I haven't done it.

02:28:15.000 It just strikes me as unnatural, but I'm sure there are some people for whom it's a reasonable way to go about it.

02:28:23.000 It's hard for me to understand, though.

02:28:25.000 Is it unnatural?

02:28:27.000 Look, the Maasai are largely carnivores, right?

02:28:30.000 So there are clearly some civilizations who have done it.

02:28:33.000 But we have to distinguish between it can be done from it is optimal.

02:28:37.000 Those are not the same thing.

02:28:39.000 And we're clearly omnivores in your eyes.

02:28:42.000 And so if one was going to do- Just like a vegan diet at the other end of the spectrum.

02:28:47.000 Can it be done?

02:28:48.000 Sure.

02:28:49.000 Is it better than the standard American diet?

02:28:50.000 Sure.

02:28:51.000 Is it necessarily the optimal diet?

02:28:53.000 No.

02:28:53.000 Why is it necessarily the optimal diet?

02:28:55.000 You know, just because some guy's telling us it is.

02:28:57.000 Well, the idea is that I think the vegan diet is the only diet that comes with sort of a moral imperative.

02:29:03.000 That's right.

02:29:04.000 And I think these folks that do it, they're saying, listen, I care about A, climate change, B, the animals, all the above, whatever it is.

02:29:13.000 So that's a different, like, can you do it and survive and thrive?

02:29:18.000 Yes, you can.

02:29:20.000 When you're doing the carnivore diet, I think their idea is that they're trying to avoid plant chemicals that plants release when they're being consumed by predators, which does happen, right?

02:29:31.000 Yeah, I guess I just – I have to feel like we have evolved enough tools to thrive despite plants.

02:29:38.000 Like, I just – Well, isn't it also true that there's an effect that when you're taking in these plant compounds that are, you know, designed to ward off predation, that your body has a sort of hermetic effect?

02:29:53.000 And it's actually somewhat beneficial to have those.

02:29:57.000 That's Rhonda Patrick's take on things like broccoli sprouts and things along those lines, right? 0.72

02:30:06.000 I don't have a point of view on it.

02:30:07.000 I mean, clearly hormesis is an important part of our existence, but I don't know.

02:30:12.000 My null hypothesis would be we evolved to eat plants.

02:30:15.000 Right.

02:30:16.000 And vegetables, fruits, and meat as well.

02:30:20.000 But we're also super versatile.

02:30:24.000 We can do a lot.

02:30:26.000 I don't know any elite athletes that do just straight carnivore. 0.96

02:30:31.000 But I do know a lot that do carnivore-ish.

02:30:34.000 So they do mostly meat and then they supplement it with fruits.

02:30:39.000 And so they'll eat like apples and pineapples and things along those lines.

02:30:44.000 And they get their glucose essentially from fruit and they basically avoid all plant matter.

02:30:51.000 I also take athletic greens.

02:30:53.000 I take that supplement.

02:30:54.000 Dude, I'm freaking obsessed with it.

02:30:55.000 It's great stuff, right?

02:30:57.000 I feel good when I take it.

02:30:58.000 I go off of that, you know?

02:31:02.000 That's interesting.

02:31:04.000 Could you do carnivore with AG? I'd feel a lot better if I did that.

02:31:09.000 Psychologically.

02:31:10.000 I don't think I'd feel right if I was not eating any vegetables.

02:31:15.000 I like them.

02:31:16.000 That's the problem.

02:31:17.000 If I have a nice salad with tomatoes and onions and olive oil and vinegar, I look forward to that.

02:31:26.000 I like it.

02:31:27.000 I like to start off a meal with a good salad.

02:31:30.000 It tastes good.

02:31:31.000 I like it.

02:31:33.000 It's one of those things where I'm not sure that's bad for me. 1.00

02:31:37.000 I think when I have a bowl of pasta, I like that too, but I'm like, oh, you fucking idiot. 1.00

02:31:41.000 After I eat it, I'm like, oh, dummy, what have you done? 1.00

02:31:45.000 I never feel like that after I have a salad.

02:31:47.000 After a salad, I'm like, good.

02:31:49.000 It was good.

02:31:50.000 I liked it.

02:31:52.000 But that's my optimal meal.

02:31:54.000 My optimal meal is a good salad and a piece of meat.

02:31:57.000 That's what I like the most.

02:31:59.000 And maybe some sort of a starch, like my favorite sweet potatoes.

02:32:02.000 Sweet potatoes are yams.

02:32:04.000 Those are my favorite.

02:32:05.000 Because I feel like with those, I'm getting all the benefits.

02:32:09.000 And I do know that you can take potatoes and boil them and then cool them off and then whatever it is that happens to the potato, you lose a lot of the negative effects.

02:32:20.000 Yeah, there's this whole resistant starch argument.

02:32:23.000 Again, for me, I take a much simpler empirical approach to this, which is I have in my mind a predefined set of metrics around how high I want my glucose to be, how much I want it to vary, and where I want it to average, and I titrate my intake to that.

02:32:39.000 And you wear a constant glucose monitor, right?

02:32:42.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:32:42.000 I saw it on your arm.

02:32:44.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:32:44.000 So my activity and my sleep basically determine what I eat.

02:32:50.000 And is that monitor working with an app?

02:32:52.000 Yeah.

02:32:53.000 What's the app?

02:32:54.000 What's it called?

02:32:55.000 This monitor's called Dexcom, so it just works with the Dexcom app.

02:32:59.000 And there's another one called Libre, the Abbott version of this.

02:33:03.000 But it's a bit more cumbersome.

02:33:05.000 How much do you find it varies throughout the day, your glucose levels?

02:33:08.000 Quite a bit, and it varies a ton with sleep and stress.

02:33:11.000 So if you have a bad night of sleep, like I don't even wear this when I go hunting.

02:33:17.000 Because you don't want to know your data?

02:33:18.000 Well, first of all, there's a part of me that's perhaps naively worried that any sort of Bluetooth signal out there in the field is being picked up by a deer.

02:33:26.000 What about your phone?

02:33:27.000 I always have it on airplane mode.

02:33:29.000 Oh, okay.

02:33:30.000 Do you think a deer can pick up a Bluetooth signal?

02:33:34.000 I have no idea. 1.00

02:33:35.000 But it's like, if I'm going to wear a stupid hex suit, I'm going to... 0.99

02:33:37.000 Do you buy into that hex suit thing? 0.99

02:33:41.000 Um, I don't think so, but it's like, it's one of those things where it's like the downside of it, you know?

02:33:46.000 It clearly works with fish.

02:33:48.000 Really?

02:33:49.000 Yeah.

02:33:50.000 Yeah.

02:33:50.000 It seems to really work with fish.

02:33:53.000 I've, uh, I've talked to people that understand, like- Have you bow hunted fish yet out here?

02:33:58.000 No, I have not.

02:33:59.000 I've heard it's awesome though.

02:34:01.000 Yeah.

02:34:01.000 I think spearfishing is the move.

02:34:04.000 I got to get that going.

02:34:08.000 That seems like the move.

02:34:11.000 You should come to Maui with us in June.

02:34:14.000 We're going to go out there.

02:34:15.000 Justin Lee and Mark Healy.

02:34:17.000 Do you know those guys?

02:34:18.000 Yeah, I know Mark.

02:34:18.000 You know Mark.

02:34:20.000 He's a great guy.

02:34:21.000 So they're going to teach me and another buddy some serious diving and spearfishing in June.

02:34:27.000 Yeah, that's like hunting underwater.

02:34:29.000 Yeah.

02:34:30.000 Those guys are...

02:34:30.000 I mean, that looks incredible.

02:34:33.000 It looks so...

02:34:34.000 And for someone who's been so comfortable in water, they keep telling me, like, they said...

02:34:39.000 Justin told me that within a couple hours, he'll have me down to 75 feet.

02:34:44.000 And I'm like...

02:34:45.000 That can't be possible.

02:34:46.000 There's no way I could go to 75 feet.

02:34:49.000 And he's like, of course you can.

02:34:51.000 You can swim 25 yards of a pool holding your breath, like there and back, which I can.

02:34:56.000 And he's like, how could you not do it?

02:34:58.000 And I was like, well, when you put it that way, but still, it seems so hard.

02:35:01.000 How do you get down there, though?

02:35:02.000 Do you have to have a weight on or something?

02:35:04.000 I think they do.

02:35:05.000 Yeah, they use long fins and a slight weight.

02:35:08.000 And you titrate the weight to a certain level of buoyancy, like a slight negative buoyancy, I think.

02:35:15.000 And if you're panicking, you can release the weight?

02:35:18.000 Yes, I believe you can.

02:35:21.000 And how much weight is it?

02:35:22.000 That's funny.

02:35:23.000 I asked Justin about this.

02:35:24.000 Now, of course, it depends on how thick your wetsuit is, if you're wearing a wetsuit and things like that.

02:35:28.000 But it wasn't, I want to say it was like eight pounds or something.

02:35:31.000 It wasn't like some staggering sum of weight.

02:35:36.000 You know the guy who has the world record in the static hold?

02:35:40.000 He might have to quit his career because he got myocarditis from being vaccinated.

02:35:47.000 Oh really?

02:35:48.000 Yeah, unfortunately.

02:35:50.000 He's one of the rare few that gets it and he lost like 30% of his ability to hold his breath.

02:35:59.000 See if you can find that guy's story.

02:36:02.000 Somebody just shared it with me.

02:36:05.000 But some of these guys can hold their breath for seven, eight.

02:36:09.000 Yeah, I was going to say, what's the static apnea record now?

02:36:11.000 It's probably approaching 10. Oh, no, but I think if you preload with oxygen, it's different, right?

02:36:15.000 Oh, that's cheating.

02:36:17.000 That should be cheating.

02:36:18.000 I want to know what can a person just go and hold their breath.

02:36:23.000 And the preloading with oxygen, I think...

02:36:26.000 David Blaine did something insane.

02:36:27.000 He went like 10 minutes or something crazy.

02:36:30.000 He's a fascinating guy.

02:36:32.000 He sure is.

02:36:33.000 Have you ever met him?

02:36:34.000 No.

02:36:35.000 Spoken on the phone to him.

02:36:35.000 Never met him.

02:36:36.000 My goodness, dude. 0.99

02:36:37.000 When you watch him do magic, you're just like, what the fuck did I just see? 0.97

02:36:41.000 How would you do that? 1.00

02:36:43.000 He did some crazy shit with us with his sleeves rolled up. 0.99

02:36:47.000 He wanted us to know that his sleeves are rolled up. 0.96

02:36:49.000 He's making cards disappear. 0.99

02:36:51.000 And Jamie and I were like, what the fuck did we just see? 0.94

02:36:53.000 Where did that go? 0.98

02:36:55.000 It's really weird.

02:36:56.000 He is pretty amazing.

02:36:57.000 Beyond.

02:36:58.000 And that whole world of magicians and people who understand how to distract you in a way that you don't notice what they're doing while they're doing it, but they have this insane hand dexterity,

02:37:14.000 so they're moving in a way that a normal person can't even imagine that your hands can move.

02:37:20.000 And they're shuffling these cards in front of you.

02:37:22.000 You're not even seeing what's happening.

02:37:23.000 Did you see that movie with Hugh Jackman and Christian Bale, The Prestige?

02:37:26.000 What's this here, buddy?

02:37:28.000 This is his post about it.

02:37:30.000 I was trying to go to the source.

02:37:33.000 Okay.

02:37:33.000 So this is from his Instagram.

02:37:35.000 It says, I want to share my annoying experience after vaccination and perhaps have some testimonials from similar stories from freedivers.

02:37:46.000 Did you get better?

02:37:47.000 He said, after my second dose of the vaccine...

02:37:49.000 I noticed my heart rate was way higher than normal and my breath hold capacity went down significantly during sleep I'm at 65 to 70 beats per minute instead of 37 to 45 beats per minute during the day I'm now over Wow, I'm now always over a hundred beats per minute instead of 65 Even when I sit down and relax once I even reached reached 177 beats per minute while having dinner with friends three exclamation points Ten days after my second

02:38:20.000 jab, I went to see a cardiologist and he told me it's a common side effect of Pfizer vaccine.

02:38:25.000 Nothing to worry about.

02:38:27.000 Just rest.

02:38:28.000 It will pass.

02:38:29.000 Forty days after the second jab, I had no progress.

02:38:32.000 So I went to see another cardiologist and got diagnosed with myocarditis and trivial mitral regurgitation.

02:38:41.000 Which is basically an inflammation of the heart muscle caused by the immune system and some tiny leaks of blood from the valves that no longer close properly.

02:38:51.000 I'm now struggling to reach 8 minutes breath hold, which is hilarious.

02:38:55.000 That sounds amazing.

02:38:57.000 150 meter DYN, I don't know what that means.

02:39:01.000 And even have, what is 150 meter DYN? Do you know what that is?

02:39:05.000 I don't know if that's dying, as in, I don't know.

02:39:07.000 And even have a strong urge to breathe doing 40-meter dives.

02:39:13.000 30% decrease in my diving performance, roughly.

02:39:16.000 My first thought and recommendation to freedivers around the world is to choose a vaccine which is done the old-fashioned way like Sputnik, Sinovac, Sinopharm, etc., instead of the new mRNA vaccines.

02:39:30.000 It's weird because he spells vaccines wrong every time.

02:39:33.000 Does he have not spellcheck?

02:39:36.000 Is he from another country?

02:39:37.000 Yeah.

02:39:38.000 Oh, so they spell things wrong.

02:39:39.000 They spell like tire with a Y in England.

02:39:42.000 What's that guy's name?

02:39:44.000 It's Mr. Ten Minutes.

02:39:45.000 Florian Doggery.

02:39:47.000 Mr. Ten Minutes is his...

02:39:49.000 I was going to say it.

02:39:50.000 Yeah.

02:39:50.000 Wrong.

02:39:53.000 World record holder for apnea, diagnosed myocarditis and paracarditis.

02:39:59.000 1031 was his time, I think.

02:40:00.000 1031. Jeez.

02:40:01.000 That's so long.

02:40:03.000 Meanwhile, he's complaining he can only hold his breath for eight minutes. 0.99

02:40:05.000 I'm like, bitch, that's so long. 0.99

02:40:08.000 Stop bragging. 0.99

02:40:09.000 I was just talking about this with a friend yesterday.

02:40:12.000 I do...

02:40:15.000 A year and a half ago, I remember thinking, you know, one silver lining of COVID is going to be that science will regain its place as, you know, an important part of our civilization, right?

02:40:30.000 Like there was a day in the 1960s when a scientist and engineer was really respected and the best and the brightest kids wanted to go into those professions.

02:40:38.000 And I don't think that's necessarily the case anymore, right?

02:40:40.000 I mean, if you're a super bright kid today, you're going to go want to work at Goldman Sachs or something like that.

02:40:44.000 And I remember thinking like, God, you know, if they develop a vaccine to this and, you know, develop a vaccine in a year, which is unheard of, it's going to really impress people.

02:40:56.000 People are really going to think science is amazing.

02:40:59.000 And instead...

02:41:00.000 I think the exact opposite has happened, right?

02:41:02.000 I think that there has been a fundamental confusion between science and advocacy.

02:41:08.000 And I think it has done a huge disservice to science in the short term.

02:41:12.000 And I don't know where it's going to shake out.

02:41:14.000 I wish I had something I could go into a crystal ball and look back and say in 10 years, how will this have panned out?

02:41:24.000 Guys like this, I completely believe that and I absolutely think that there are lots of side effects to vaccines.

02:41:30.000 I still think for most people, vaccines are a net positive.

02:41:33.000 But I think that there's been so much discussion of anything that talks about anything about a vaccine that's bad, we can't talk about because we've taken this advocacy view, right?

02:41:43.000 So again, the difference is A scientific discussion is one that says, let's just talk about the facts, let's look at all of the facts, and let's speak with varying degrees of certainty and uncertainty.

02:41:55.000 An advocacy view says, I have a point of view about what is important for your health, what I believe is important for your health, and if the message is, get vaccinated, then we're going to talk about that at the expense of talking about anything else.

02:42:08.000 Including the negative effects of the vaccine.

02:42:10.000 Including the negative effects of the vaccine.

02:42:12.000 Or being able to talk about it in a nuanced way. 0.98

02:42:15.000 Now, this is going to probably get me in a million piles of shit, but I'm not excited about getting my four-year-old and seven-year-old vaccinated. 0.98

02:42:23.000 Because I don't see... 0.99

02:42:25.000 So I look at everything through a two-by-two lens of risk and reward.

02:42:30.000 So you're either picking up pennies or Bitcoins, and you're picking them up in front of tricycles or trains.

02:42:38.000 So that's your risk-reward trade-off.

02:42:40.000 So if you're an 80-year-old person, getting vaccinated is like picking up a Bitcoin in front of a tricycle.

02:42:49.000 It's a no-brainer.

02:42:50.000 It's a no-brainer, right?

02:42:52.000 The reward, the Bitcoin, is so worth it compared to the downside of getting hit by a tricycle, which would hurt.

02:43:00.000 If you're five years old, I mean, the risk of dying from influenza is five times higher than the risk of dying from COVID. So if we knew the vaccine was 100% safe and we had a million patients that had taken it and we could clearly document what the risk was,

02:43:19.000 maybe it's worth it.

02:43:21.000 But I don't know that today.

02:43:23.000 Right?

02:43:24.000 Now, for me, yeah, it makes sense.

02:43:27.000 Like, the risk of me getting myocarditis from long COVID is higher than the risk of me getting myocarditis from a vaccine.

02:43:34.000 Do you think that's true still?

02:43:36.000 Because it probably was true before the advent and the use of monoclonal antibodies.

02:43:44.000 Yeah, it's a good question.

02:43:45.000 You know, I just had a patient who got COVID two weeks ago, and so I'm one of his doctors, and then he has a primary care doctor as well.

02:43:54.000 And, you know, we wanted to put him on monoclonal antibodies.

02:43:58.000 His primary care doctor didn't want to put him on monoclonal antibodies.

02:44:01.000 Why?

02:44:03.000 His risk was too low to justify it, given the side effects of MABS, but the risk of MABS are pretty darn low.

02:44:09.000 So in the end, we get monoclonal antibodies.

02:44:11.000 But what is the risks?

02:44:13.000 Oh, I mean, you can have a hypersensitivity reaction to it.

02:44:17.000 Very small risk.

02:44:19.000 And also, especially if you're monitoring a person while they're getting it, it's basically a non-existent risk.

02:44:24.000 So, you know, my view was, yeah.

02:44:26.000 And by the way, have you seen the new Pfizer drug that came out, this protease inhibitor that was just approved or given a UA? I mean...

02:44:32.000 That thing is remarkable.

02:44:34.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:44:35.000 Like, stupidly remarkable. 0.94

02:44:37.000 And again, it wasn't a huge trial, so I want to see more data. 0.84

02:44:42.000 But in the roughly 2,000 people that got this that were divided into two groups, in the placebo group, so meaning the people who weren't getting an actual drug, the risk of adverse reaction was something like 6%.

02:44:55.000 In the drug group, it was 2%.

02:44:59.000 No adverse reactions.

02:45:01.000 The mortality difference was 12 people versus one people.

02:45:06.000 So it was a 91% reduction in death and about a 63% reduction in hospitalization.

02:45:12.000 This is a protease inhibitor.

02:45:13.000 So it's a slightly different mechanism from the Merck one that is a nucleotide inhibitor.

02:45:20.000 So, yeah, I mean, today, with that drug, with monoclonal antibodies, with fluvoxamine...

02:45:27.000 Yeah, fluvoxamine, which is fascinating, which is an antidepressant, right?

02:45:30.000 Yeah, it's an SSRI. And what is the mechanism?

02:45:33.000 I don't know.

02:45:34.000 And that's not to say one doesn't know, but I don't know.

02:45:36.000 Dr. Drew was explaining it to me, but I forgot.

02:45:38.000 I mean, we...

02:45:40.000 We became interested in it based on really early reports that suggested that it was minimizing long-term neurologic fog that some people were experiencing.

02:45:50.000 And then there was a JAMA trial and then very recently a Lancet trial that was a bigger trial, a very well-done trial.

02:45:56.000 And it, on an intention-to-treat basis, so meaning for all the people who took the drug versus those who didn't, and it's 10 days, 100 milligrams twice a day, it's about a 67% reduction in death and hospitalization.

02:46:09.000 Just from an off-the-shelf SSRI. That's fascinating.

02:46:13.000 So a cocktail or a stack of fluvoxamine, monoclonal antibodies, this Pfizer drug, all those things.

02:46:21.000 I had great results with the monoclonal antibodies.

02:46:25.000 All anybody focused on was ivermectin when people were upset at me.

02:46:30.000 I said that casually with a list of all the other things.

02:46:35.000 I didn't even promote it.

02:46:37.000 But for whatever reason, there's been some sort of a demonization of that particular drug.

02:46:43.000 Make of it what you will.

02:46:44.000 Which, by the way, you know the safety profile of ivermectin, right?

02:46:47.000 I mean, it's just a horribly dangerous drug.

02:46:50.000 Tell me about the safety profile because it is kind of hilarious.

02:46:52.000 Tell everybody, I should say.

02:46:53.000 Yeah, so the WHO estimates that ivermectin has been dosed 4 billion times since its inception.

02:47:01.000 Though not necessarily 4 billion people, but 4 billion doses of this drug have been administered.

02:47:06.000 And in that time, there are a total documented number of 28 adverse neurologic responses.

02:47:12.000 This is one of the safest drugs ever.

02:47:15.000 There's no antibiotic that I'm aware of that has a better safety profile than this.

02:47:18.000 When you saw that goofy Rolling Stone article that claimed that there was a hospital in Oklahoma and that they had gunshot victims that were waiting to get into the emergency room because there were so many people who overdosed on ivermectin,

02:47:35.000 What did you think of that?

02:47:36.000 I didn't see the article.

02:47:37.000 You didn't see that?

02:47:37.000 It is a 100% fake story, but Rolling Stone printed it, and Rachel Maddow tweeted it, and then doubled down afterwards, and was claiming that there was calls to poison control.

02:47:50.000 Like, which means jack shit if the drug isn't poison, you fucking idiot. 1.00

02:47:54.000 Like, it's a dumb, that's a dumb thing to say. 1.00

02:47:58.000 Like, poison control? 0.99

02:48:01.000 It's not poison.

02:48:02.000 I mean, look, we had used ivermectin in some patients six months ago.

02:48:07.000 We don't use it today.

02:48:08.000 So we use fluvoxamine today.

02:48:10.000 And I'm waiting to see if more data emerge.

02:48:13.000 There are five clinical trials registered on clinicaltrials.gov that are looking at it.

02:48:17.000 The problem is most of the trials on ivermectin to date have been very small, and they've looked at many different things.

02:48:26.000 So when these people do meta-analyses to combine them, the trials are so heterogeneous.

02:48:32.000 So they have different endpoints.

02:48:34.000 They have different doses.

02:48:36.000 They have different durations.

02:48:37.000 They're combined with different drugs.

02:48:39.000 It's messy.

02:48:40.000 It's so messy.

02:48:41.000 And then there was that one very, very fraudulent trial from Egypt.

02:48:46.000 And that really diluted things.

02:48:48.000 Wasn't there another one that was fraudulent?

02:48:51.000 Possible.

02:48:52.000 I feel like there was one that...

02:48:55.000 I want to see.

02:48:56.000 Was it Argentina?

02:48:57.000 There was one in Brazil that got a lot of talk, but I don't know if that was it, but...

02:49:01.000 So the data's messy, and it's also...

02:49:05.000 If you look at the Andrew Hill revised meta-analysis, and I think his is probably the best, and I think it came out in August, it looked at, if you included all those studies, including the fraudulent one, it looked really good.

02:49:21.000 Ivermectin, with a p-value of less than 0.01, had a 90% reduction in hospital admission and death.

02:49:29.000 Now, the minute you stripped out that one fraudulent study, the results became way less impressive.

02:49:34.000 It went to a 38% reduction with a p-value of 0.05, which is right on the cusp of not even being statistically relevant.

02:49:41.000 What about in use of prophylaxis?

02:49:43.000 That's the problem.

02:49:44.000 That study included both prophylactic use and treatment use.

02:49:49.000 What is more, is one or the other more promising?

02:49:53.000 That's a good question.

02:49:54.000 I don't know what's being tested in those five studies today, but I've, so I shouldn't speak because it's just not something I'm, I don't know the data well enough.

02:50:04.000 What I was going to say is that the cocktail that I used, what I called the kitchen sink, was monoclonal antibodies, ivermectin, IV drips with a high dose of vitamin C, glutathione,

02:50:20.000 zinc, and then I did NAD every other day.

02:50:23.000 And you didn't do fluvoxamine?

02:50:25.000 No, I did not.

02:50:25.000 No.

02:50:26.000 I didn't know about it at the time.

02:50:27.000 You should have called me, dude.

02:50:28.000 I should have.

02:50:29.000 I was sick and...

02:50:35.000 September?

02:50:36.000 No.

02:50:36.000 Wait, was this before your Alcon?

02:50:37.000 Yeah, it was before the Alcon.

02:50:38.000 Quite a bit before the Alcon.

02:50:39.000 We're in November now.

02:50:40.000 So it must have been August when I got sick.

02:50:43.000 Yeah.

02:50:44.000 Yeah, it must have been August.

02:50:45.000 But I was better very quickly.

02:50:49.000 And I think...

02:50:51.000 How symptomatic were you?

02:50:52.000 Did you...

02:50:52.000 I knew when I was coming home something was wrong.

02:50:56.000 I was in Florida, which is the, you know, at the time it was a hotbed.

02:50:59.000 And I was doing arenas.

02:51:01.000 So I was doing stand-up in an arena.

02:51:03.000 And I'm doing it in the round.

02:51:05.000 And so this is what it's like.

02:51:06.000 So I'm on stage in the round.

02:51:10.000 Around me it's 15,000 people.

02:51:13.000 They're screaming.

02:51:14.000 It's a COVID cloud.

02:51:16.000 And then I go through the audience to leave.

02:51:19.000 I go through the audience to get to the stage, and I go through the audience to leave.

02:51:24.000 And as I'm walking through the audience, people are screaming, and they're high-fiving me, and they're like, thank you, thank you.

02:51:29.000 I'm shaking people's hands, and then I go into the back room.

02:51:32.000 So I did that, and then the second night, I went to a pool hall.

02:51:39.000 I met my friend John Shulman, who's like a...

02:51:43.000 A legendary pool cue maker.

02:51:45.000 And we played pool till like 3 o'clock in the morning.

02:51:48.000 3.30 in the morning.

02:51:49.000 And I had a bunch of margaritas.

02:51:50.000 I was hammered.

02:51:51.000 And I was tired.

02:51:52.000 I was really tired. 0.99

02:51:53.000 And then I started feeling like shit. 0.99

02:51:55.000 And I was like, oh my god, I feel terrible. 0.99

02:51:57.000 But I just thought I was hungover.

02:51:58.000 Yeah.

02:51:59.000 And then the next day, I had a headache and I was like, ugh. 0.82

02:52:03.000 I feel like garbage.

02:52:04.000 But I didn't know if I was sick or if I was just hungover. 0.96

02:52:09.000 I thought I was just hungover.

02:52:10.000 Drank a lot of water, ate a bunch of food, had another show that night.

02:52:14.000 No problem.

02:52:14.000 Killed.

02:52:15.000 Had a great show. 0.93

02:52:16.000 A lot of fun. 0.63

02:52:17.000 Flying home, I started to feel shitty. 0.98

02:52:20.000 But again, I wasn't sure because I was pretty fucking drunk on Friday night. 0.96

02:52:25.000 And I was like, maybe that was it. 0.94

02:52:27.000 Maybe I need to just go home, get in bed, go to sleep.

02:52:31.000 But when I got home, I said to my wife, I said, I feel I feel odd enough that I'm going to separate from everybody.

02:52:39.000 And my kids were already asleep because I got home really late at night.

02:52:42.000 My wife's already had COVID and so I just avoided her and went right to bed and then I was sweating.

02:52:48.000 I was sweating in the middle of the night.

02:52:50.000 I was like, this is not good.

02:52:51.000 So then I got tested the next day.

02:52:53.000 Are you vaccinated?

02:52:55.000 No.

02:52:56.000 Positive, tested, and then right after I got tested that day, I got IV vitamin drips, and then the next day, I got monoclonal antibodies.

02:53:08.000 Within a day of getting the monoclonal antibodies, I felt pretty fucking good.

02:53:13.000 That would be a Tuesday.

02:53:15.000 By the end of Tuesday, I felt pretty good.

02:53:16.000 By Wednesday, I made that video that went viral.

02:53:21.000 Right, I remember that.

02:53:21.000 That was Wednesday.

02:53:22.000 So that was like three days after, and I was like, I feel pretty good.

02:53:25.000 And then by Friday, I was testing negative.

02:53:28.000 By Thursday, I tested negative on one of those over-the-counter tests, but not like a PCR. Not a PCR. Friday, I tested negative, and then Saturday, I was working out.

02:53:39.000 I mean, I'd put, of your cocktail, to me, the Mabs were, that's the linchpin. 0.99

02:53:43.000 I think so, too.

02:53:44.000 That's what I've been telling everybody, that when people get sick, like, I don't know if you've been paying attention to this Aaron Rodgers thing.

02:53:50.000 Yeah, a little bit.

02:53:51.000 Yeah.

02:53:52.000 He asked me what to do, and I... Look, in any other world, when a friend calls you up and you've been sick with something, you know, hey man, I got the thing that you got, what did you do that helped you?

02:54:04.000 And I said, I really think the monoclonal antibodies helped.

02:54:06.000 And I said, do you have access to those?

02:54:08.000 And he did.

02:54:09.000 And then I recommended the vitamin drips, IV vitamin drips and, you know, and be really aggressive with it.

02:54:16.000 And then I also recommended NAD and he did those and he also got better very quickly.

02:54:23.000 It shouldn't be controversial to tell someone what you did.

02:54:28.000 I'm not offering unsolicited medical advice.

02:54:31.000 I'm not telling people, do this and don't do that.

02:54:35.000 What's odd about his case is that he told people he had been, in quotes, immunized.

02:54:43.000 I wasn't aware of this until later.

02:54:44.000 He had done some sort of a homeopathic, which to me always sounds like voodoo.

02:54:52.000 When someone says homeopathic, I go, oh, you do voodoo.

02:54:55.000 I don't think that's real, right?

02:54:56.000 One part per billion?

02:54:58.000 What is homeopathic?

02:54:59.000 What is that?

02:55:00.000 What does it even mean?

02:55:01.000 It's nonsense.

02:55:01.000 It means giving a dose that is so diluted that it's non-existent and claiming that there's some benefit from it.

02:55:08.000 But what does it mean?

02:55:09.000 Why is it homeopathic?

02:55:12.000 What is even the definition of that?

02:55:14.000 I don't know what the entomology of that word is. 0.99

02:55:15.000 Somebody gave me some homeopathic medicine once, and it was fucking sugar. 0.97

02:55:20.000 When I'm taking it, it was like these little pills. 0.99

02:55:22.000 I was like, this is sugar.

02:55:23.000 It tastes so sweet.

02:55:25.000 It seems like sugar. 0.99

02:55:26.000 And they're like, no, no, no, it's Arnica, or whatever the fuck it was. 0.99

02:55:30.000 And I was like, bro, this is sugar. 0.98

02:55:32.000 This is not fixing anything.

02:55:33.000 But anyway, he did some protocol that some homeopathic doctor put him on.

02:55:38.000 I don't know what the protocol was.

02:55:40.000 I don't know if that would even...

02:55:41.000 How could you even do it?

02:55:43.000 Like, what could immunize you?

02:55:44.000 So he was telling people he had been immunized.

02:55:46.000 He was given one copy of the virus.

02:55:47.000 Right.

02:55:48.000 I don't even think he was given that.

02:55:50.000 But he has an allergy to...

02:55:53.000 What is this stuff called again, Jamie?

02:56:07.000 I have it in my phone.

02:56:09.000 If you have this allergy, you actually should not take the mRNA vaccine.

02:56:14.000 It says it on the CDC website, in which case he would have to take the Johnson& Johnson.

02:56:21.000 Yeah, so why didn't he take that one?

02:56:22.000 I don't know.

02:56:23.000 I think he was worried about blood clots because it was like right around the time where people got blood clots, where they pulled it for blood clots. 0.55

02:56:31.000 Which is so ridiculous.

02:56:34.000 I mean, there's another reason. 0.95

02:56:35.000 Yeah, six people.

02:56:36.000 Six people out of, I mean, I don't remember.

02:56:39.000 I did the math on it at the time.

02:56:40.000 I mean, it was just another example of failing to basically communicate nuance.

02:56:47.000 Is that what all it is?

02:56:48.000 Yeah, totally.

02:56:48.000 Now, when it comes to VAERS, like VAERS reports, like how underreported are they?

02:56:53.000 It's a good question.

02:56:54.000 I mean, I think they're more reported now because I think we're realizing that there could be more things going on, right?

02:57:00.000 Like at the time, put it this way, when a drug hits the market, the insert, the package insert basically says, these are the side effects we saw in the trial.

02:57:10.000 These are the things you should be aware of.

02:57:12.000 Well, at some point, the real world application of that is going to be greater, meaning the number of people that take it is going to be greater than what you see in the clinical trial.

02:57:21.000 So We should see more side effects as time goes on.

02:57:26.000 And obviously it's important that they're all reported because most of them are probably unrelated to the drug.

02:57:30.000 I mean, we know that from clinical trials.

02:57:32.000 Like if the placebo people are having more reactions than the drug people, but only by kind of capturing all of them will we see if a pattern's emerging.

02:57:41.000 I think that's, I don't know.

02:57:44.000 I mean, that to me is what's disappointing in all this is just that somehow this has turned into anything that questions the safety of this or the benefit of that somehow means you're anti that.

02:57:56.000 I mean, I'm a very pro-vaccine person, but I still think to not ask the questions about the risk versus reward trade-off.

02:58:06.000 Financial Times did a really nice analysis a few months ago that plotted by decade what the risk reduction was from the vaccine.

02:58:17.000 So if you were 85, it took you from a risk of 2% down to a risk of 0.05% or something like that.

02:58:26.000 And it did this if you're 80, 70, all the way down to 20%.

02:58:31.000 And the first thing that jumps out at you, so their purpose of doing this analysis was to show that an immunized 80-year-old has the same risk as an unimmunized 50-year-old, which is pretty cool, because a 50-year-old's in pretty good shape.

02:58:42.000 So if you're 80 and you get the vaccine, you're now like a 50-year-old walking around.

02:58:47.000 But two things I found interesting about this.

02:58:49.000 The first was everybody experienced about a 1.5 log reduction in risk.

02:58:54.000 So a log is 10x.

02:58:55.000 Two log is 100x.

02:58:59.000 So 1.5 log, just call it directionally, a 20x reduction in risk.

02:59:05.000 So at the surface, that says everybody should get vaccinated because the risk is always a 20x.

02:59:13.000 But if you don't know the harm of the thing...

02:59:17.000 Then that risk at some point won't be worth it.

02:59:20.000 The risk reduction.

02:59:22.000 Because a 20x reduction when you're starting at 2% means you only need to treat 100 people to get the benefit.

02:59:31.000 But if you're a 40 year old or a 30 year old And your starting point of risk is so low, a 20x reduction requires you to treat 10,000 people to see a benefit.

02:59:44.000 So at some point, these curves intersect.

02:59:47.000 The curve of risk from the vaccine and the curve of benefit from the vaccine.

02:59:52.000 And that's where children come into play.

02:59:53.000 And that's where, by my math, below the age of 13, I'm having a hard time seeing the data with the limited data set we have.

03:00:02.000 I only have anecdotal evidence based on my own children.

03:00:05.000 They both got COVID and it was nothing.

03:00:08.000 I know that children have died from COVID, but I also know that those children, almost all of them, had pretty severe comorbidities.

03:00:17.000 Yeah, I mean, I don't know the latest data.

03:00:19.000 I know the New York database, which, you know, again, we're talking about, I mean, kids are dying way more commonly from influenza, from rotavirus, from other things like that.

03:00:30.000 So again, look, if in a year we have enough evidence where that vaccine is just as safe as the MMR vaccine, great, let's do it.

03:00:38.000 I'm just saying, like, it's not as pressing as it was for someone I thought even though my risk from dying of COVID was really low, I was more concerned with sort of the comorbidities of COVID. Right.

03:00:52.000 There's been talk of people getting vaccinated and then catching COVID afterwards being one of the best ways To get really strong immunity.

03:01:05.000 Because if you get vaccinated, you have a protection from death and hospitalization.

03:01:11.000 And then if you get COVID, then you get the much more robust immunity that's imparted by the actual natural immunity from the infection.

03:01:18.000 I think probably you're also getting, vaccines are, depending on which one you get, are typically highlighting B-cell or T-cell response.

03:01:28.000 So the mRNA vaccines are really good at inducing B-cell immunity, which is antibody-based immunity.

03:01:36.000 The adenovirus vaccines are better at inducing T cell immunity.

03:01:40.000 Totally different type of immunity.

03:01:41.000 What is more effective at stopping the virus? 0.92

03:01:44.000 It's not clear, but my two cents on this as a former immunologist, but speaking like out of his ass a bit, is I think the best way to vaccinate will be one of each.

03:01:58.000 I think that if you got an mRNA vaccine, and we don't have data on this yet, but I hope that we do have data to test this hypothesis.

03:02:06.000 So you would get like one shot of the J&J, wait a while, and then one shot of the Pfizer.

03:02:10.000 Exactly.

03:02:11.000 So my plan is to probably wait until Novavax gets approved in the U.S. before I get a booster and then boost with that or J&J. And what is Novavax?

03:02:20.000 I think it's an adeno.

03:02:22.000 What's the difference between that and the adeno that we have now?

03:02:25.000 It just seems more effective.

03:02:27.000 So if you look at the European data, it seems more effective than even the mRNA vaccines.

03:02:32.000 Now, when you see people getting myocarditis and pericarditis and strokes and what have you, do you think some of that has to do with not aspirating?

03:02:43.000 Like, if someone is shooting the vaccine directly into a vein inadvertently because they didn't aspirate, do you think that that could be causing some of these side effects?

03:02:53.000 Because even when they did Joe Biden on television, they did not aspirate.

03:02:58.000 And I was shocked.

03:02:59.000 I'm watching this.

03:03:00.000 I'm like, I can't believe they just shot that into his arm.

03:03:03.000 Like, that's crazy.

03:03:04.000 You're supposed to aspirate, correct?

03:03:06.000 Yeah, although typically with these intramuscular injections, they don't really aspirate.

03:03:11.000 I mean, you know, I remember the first time I would teach a patient how to inject testosterone, for example, if they're doing it in the upper part of their glute, which is where you're supposed to do it, I would say, look, there's enough blood vessels there and it's a big enough needle, even though it's like a 23 gauge or maybe a 25,

03:03:28.000 just do a quick aspiration.

03:03:32.000 Typically, in the deltoid, you know, there's not really huge blood vessels there, but I don't know.

03:03:36.000 I mean, that's an interesting hypothesis.

03:03:38.000 Yeah, because it's a limited number, right?

03:03:41.000 And if this stuff is causing this problem, like, why is it causing this problem with some people and not others?

03:03:47.000 And if you're supposed to aspirate, but no one does, like, is that, I mean, there are blood vessels there, right?

03:03:54.000 Yeah, I mean, they're tiny at that point, right?

03:03:57.000 Because they're typically jabbing you with a little needle like this. 0.93

03:04:00.000 What's more interesting is, has anybody looked at the amount of muscle mass in the different people who are getting this?

03:04:07.000 In other words, are you more likely to get this?

03:04:09.000 Are you less likely to get it in a muscular person because there's such a big target and you're almost guaranteed to be putting it right into the muscle?

03:04:15.000 That's an interesting question.

03:04:18.000 That makes more sense.

03:04:20.000 That actually does make sense, right? 0.86

03:04:37.000 And in particular, wanting people to get vaccinated that have already recovered from COVID seems asinine to me.

03:04:44.000 It doesn't make any sense.

03:04:45.000 When we have these therapies that are available, these therapeutics, whether it's the new Pfizer stuff or for sure the monoclonal antibodies, which are very effective, why would anybody be continually pushing the vaccine on people who have already had COVID and recovered?

03:05:04.000 I don't know.

03:05:05.000 And I think what's even more hard for me to understand is why people are still being told to wear masks.

03:05:11.000 I mean, it's so logically inconsistent with what is so obviously inevitable.

03:05:17.000 SARS-CoV-2 is never going away.

03:05:21.000 It's never going away, right?

03:05:23.000 In 50 years, this virus in one form or another will be a part of our ecosystem.

03:05:28.000 So when I see the head of the CDC talking about the importance of wearing masks, I'm saying to myself, is the implication of what you're saying that we will wear masks forever?

03:05:40.000 Because if it's important to wear a mask today for some reason that I can't understand, it will presumably be just as important in 50 years.

03:05:48.000 So is that just the new world order?

03:05:51.000 Masks everywhere?

03:05:52.000 I'll never be able to go to an airport again without wearing a mask?

03:05:54.000 You know, I mean, we should just accept the fact that this virus is here to stay.

03:05:58.000 So let's worry more about the resilience that we're going to develop around this, as opposed to, quote unquote, containment.

03:06:06.000 Do you know Naval?

03:06:07.000 He tweeted something I thought that was very appropriate.

03:06:11.000 He said, this pandemic is not going to end when everyone is vaccinated.

03:06:17.000 It's going to end when everyone's infected.

03:06:20.000 Everyone will be infected.

03:06:21.000 There's zero doubt in my mind everyone will get this virus.

03:06:25.000 And you haven't gotten it yet?

03:06:27.000 Not to my knowledge.

03:06:28.000 Have you checked your antibodies?

03:06:29.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

03:06:30.000 Constantly.

03:06:30.000 Yeah?

03:06:31.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

03:06:31.000 I get tested all the time for whatever reason.

03:06:33.000 I mean, gonna get tested again tonight.

03:06:34.000 I got tested here.

03:06:35.000 I'm gonna go get tested in an hour.

03:06:36.000 Oh, that's right.

03:06:36.000 So you're gonna go to, you're going to Formula One in Brazil?

03:06:39.000 Yeah.

03:06:39.000 Wow, you're wild, man.

03:06:41.000 Oh, Brazil's an amazing circuit.

03:06:42.000 Oh, I've been to Brazil.

03:06:44.000 You've been to Aerolagos?

03:06:45.000 I've never been to the circuit, but I've been to Brazil for the UFC multiple times.

03:06:48.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

03:06:49.000 How did you like the F1 here this year?

03:06:51.000 It was pretty wild.

03:06:52.000 Have you been to many races?

03:06:53.000 No, that's the first one I've ever been to.

03:06:55.000 What corner did you sit at?

03:06:56.000 I can't imagine that—I don't know. 0.99

03:06:58.000 I was in the Goldman Sachs fucking thing. 0.97

03:07:00.000 But I can't imagine that this is the only Formula One race course in America. 0.98

03:07:05.000 It's the only built-for-purpose one like this.

03:07:08.000 I mean, the U.S. almost has always had a Grand Prix.

03:07:11.000 But they do it in streets, right?

03:07:13.000 Yeah.

03:07:14.000 Or Watkins Glen was an actual circuit or street circuits.

03:07:17.000 But Coda's amazing.

03:07:19.000 I mean, that was sort of one of the huge perks of moving to Austin for me was to have this circuit in my backyard.

03:07:25.000 Well, you're a freak when it comes to racing. 1.00

03:07:28.000 I mean, you love that shit. 1.00

03:07:29.000 That is your thing. 1.00

03:07:30.000 I freaking love it.

03:07:31.000 Look, my son is named after the greatest driver of all time.

03:07:34.000 What's your son's name?

03:07:35.000 My youngest son is Ayrton.

03:07:37.000 Oh, Ayrton Senna.

03:07:38.000 Yeah.

03:07:38.000 Okay.

03:07:39.000 I watched that documentary on him.

03:07:41.000 Amazing.

03:07:41.000 It's wild.

03:07:42.000 Yeah.

03:07:43.000 The video that you were showing me today of your little Formula One car.

03:07:47.000 That's Formula Three. 0.98

03:07:48.000 Formula Three car, whatever the fuck it is. 0.99

03:07:50.000 That thing, that little tiny car that you're whizzing around in, that's a wild video. 0.98

03:07:55.000 I mean, it is...

03:07:57.000 Where do you store that thing?

03:07:59.000 Do you have that at your house?

03:08:00.000 No, no, no.

03:08:01.000 So I actually rent that car from a guy who has it stored in Houston.

03:08:07.000 Because the real thing with those cars is you have to have an amazing mechanic.

03:08:11.000 Like you have to have a person who...

03:08:13.000 Because you're always fixing something in those cars, right?

03:08:16.000 They're not that expensive to buy, but they're expensive to run.

03:08:19.000 Right.

03:08:20.000 It's not just the tires.

03:08:21.000 It's like, I mean, just the other day, that video from that day, I mean, like the auto blip stopped working.

03:08:28.000 So the first session I was out there, you know what auto blip is, but just for someone listening.

03:08:33.000 So when you're downshifting a manual car, you have to rev match.

03:08:38.000 You have to be able to As the clutch is in, you have to be able to hit the throttle a little bit so that the RPM goes up.

03:08:46.000 And then as it's winding its way down is when you want to drop the gear so that you've rev matched so that you don't engine brake and unnecessarily slow down.

03:08:54.000 So in formula cars, they auto blip because you're using paddle shifters now.

03:08:59.000 And that means anytime you do a downshift, the sensor knows it and just hits a little blip.

03:09:06.000 So I'm out there driving and like at the high gears when I'm going six to five and five to four, it's working.

03:09:12.000 But when I'm going three to two, I'm not shifting.

03:09:15.000 I'm just staying in third.

03:09:16.000 And it's like there's enough slow corners at Coda where it's a total disaster.

03:09:21.000 Like the guys behind me are going to bump into me because I can't accelerate off the line.

03:09:26.000 So after two sessions of this, we're looking at the telemetry, we're looking at the data to see, why am I not doing this?

03:09:32.000 And we can't figure it out.

03:09:33.000 We're like, maybe I'm, you know, I'm thinking I'm making a mistake.

03:09:36.000 And then we finally figured out, no, the auto blip sensor stopped working.

03:09:39.000 They use auto blip on a lot of new cars, like new manual cars.

03:09:43.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

03:09:44.000 And Formula One cars are all auto blip.

03:09:46.000 Which is interesting because when I learned to drive paddle shift, I always blipped myself because you left foot brake.

03:09:55.000 So you heel toe.

03:09:56.000 No, you don't have to.

03:09:57.000 In my MX-5, I have to heel toe because I still have a clutch.

03:10:01.000 Oh, okay.

03:10:02.000 In the Formula car, you only need the clutch to get into first gear and reverse.

03:10:07.000 Once you're into first, you don't need to clutch anymore, so I left foot brake.

03:10:11.000 Oh.

03:10:12.000 Boy, my left foot is a dummy.

03:10:14.000 My left foot, I've tried to hit the brakes before.

03:10:16.000 My left foot's like...

03:10:17.000 I have no nuance with my left foot.

03:10:20.000 It's...

03:10:21.000 On a street car, I still right foot brake.

03:10:25.000 And anytime I try to left foot brake, I do the same thing.

03:10:27.000 I'm like, dude, what is wrong with you?

03:10:29.000 It's so bad.

03:10:30.000 It's crazy.

03:10:31.000 But somehow in a formula car, I feel very comfortable left foot braking.

03:10:35.000 Maybe it's just like your brain tells you, we're racing now.

03:10:38.000 We're on a racetrack.

03:10:39.000 Because when I try to hit the brakes with my left foot, I'm like, you don't know what you're doing.

03:10:43.000 Well, you just don't have the feel for it.

03:10:46.000 I know, but it's crazy how bad it is.

03:10:48.000 Because my right foot is so adept at it.

03:10:51.000 But I have a simulator too, so most of my reps are in a simulator.

03:10:55.000 Well, yeah, you have this amazing system at your house, and I'm very jealous.

03:10:58.000 I need to get one of those.

03:10:59.000 Dude, I have a new one.

03:11:00.000 You should come over and check it out.

03:11:01.000 I'm scared. 0.99

03:11:02.000 I'm scared I'll be fucking racing with you. 0.99

03:11:05.000 You don't get motion sick, do you? 0.99

03:11:06.000 No, I don't.

03:11:07.000 Because that's the only thing. 1.00

03:11:09.000 I have put friends in there, and they get sick as shit. 0.99

03:11:12.000 Oh, that sounds awesome. 0.99

03:11:13.000 No, I don't get motion sick, luckily.

03:11:15.000 But that system that you have, like, I should tell everybody, Peter has this thing where you have, like, a steering wheel that's a yoke, right?

03:11:23.000 Which is, by the way, I have that on my Tesla.

03:11:25.000 I'm getting used to this yoke, which is...

03:11:27.000 It's a formula wheel, yeah. 0.99

03:11:28.000 I'm not a fan for a fucking street car. 0.99

03:11:31.000 I think it's goofy. 0.99

03:11:33.000 But that's how the car comes.

03:11:34.000 Yeah, yeah.

03:11:35.000 But then you have this huge screen that's kind of curved, right?

03:11:39.000 Is it curved?

03:11:39.000 I have three screens that are wrapped around me, yeah.

03:11:42.000 And then you have a real clutch and a real brake and a real accelerator.

03:11:46.000 So you're treating this like you're essentially seeing a very close simulation to what you would be seeing on a racetrack.

03:11:54.000 Yeah.

03:11:54.000 I mean, the simulators come in all shapes and sizes.

03:11:58.000 You can spend a million dollars on a simulator, right?

03:12:00.000 If you're a Formula One team, that's what they're spending, right?

03:12:02.000 The F1 teams have million-dollar simulators.

03:12:04.000 What does that look like?

03:12:06.000 It's a real car, and it has six degrees of movement.

03:12:11.000 So it moves this way.

03:12:13.000 Oh my god, pull that up. 0.93

03:12:14.000 It moves up and down, and it moves this way.

03:12:17.000 Oh boy, so you get to simulate every aspect of it.

03:12:20.000 That's right.

03:12:21.000 So it's like a flight simulator for a combat pilot.

03:12:23.000 That's right.

03:12:26.000 So you've got that end, right?

03:12:28.000 And what is the visuals?

03:12:29.000 What are they seeing?

03:12:30.000 It's still three screen.

03:12:32.000 So VR, last year I... No, actually earlier this year I did the VR experiment.

03:12:37.000 So I bought the four best VR devices on the market.

03:12:40.000 Like I said, cost is irrelevant.

03:12:42.000 I don't care.

03:12:42.000 Just let me get the best four.

03:12:44.000 Tried each of them out. 0.99

03:12:45.000 Total garbage. 1.00

03:12:46.000 Really? 1.00

03:12:47.000 Yeah, total crap. 1.00

03:12:48.000 Return them all. 1.00

03:12:48.000 For someone like you that knows how to race? 1.00

03:12:50.000 No, no.

03:12:51.000 I think for any car simulator.

03:12:52.000 So this is it?

03:12:55.000 Whoa! 0.71

03:12:55.000 So this does not look like three screens. 0.71

03:12:58.000 This is like a giant screen.

03:13:00.000 This isn't typically the ones that... 0.99

03:13:03.000 This is fucking wild. 0.98

03:13:06.000 So this seems like this guy is really driving. 0.99

03:13:10.000 Oh, he has one huge curved screen, yeah.

03:13:12.000 That is wild.

03:13:14.000 That's a million dollar racing simulator, it says.

03:13:17.000 So he's got the full cage, he's in a car. 0.98

03:13:20.000 Oh my god, this is fucking incredible. 0.99

03:13:23.000 This is incredible! 0.99

03:13:25.000 It's insane.

03:13:26.000 You can never have too much money, Peter, because this is one of the things you want.

03:13:31.000 You know what's funny about this simulator, or these ones in general, is the size of the room you need to put them in.

03:13:37.000 So this guy's experiencing shake in his hands and everything.

03:13:41.000 Oh, as do I. So that's the thing I was going to say.

03:13:42.000 So you don't have to spend a million dollars to get a really good simulator, right?

03:13:45.000 If you go away from motion, just the pedals, the wheel, and the belts can provide a ton of sensory feedback.

03:13:55.000 But it feels like that would really make you a better racer. 1.00

03:13:59.000 Hit that shit again. 1.00

03:13:59.000 Let me see that from the beginning again. 1.00

03:14:02.000 Just take it back to where it was or anywhere.

03:14:05.000 When I'm watching this guy do this, it's like, that seems like, when you're looking at it through his POV, that seems like that would really make you a better racer.

03:14:13.000 Like, look at that.

03:14:14.000 That's wild.

03:14:17.000 It seems like you're racing.

03:14:19.000 The sim is everything.

03:14:20.000 And the sim is calculated to the grip of the tires and the amount of g-force you can generate?

03:14:26.000 The software I'm using is so good that when I get in the car and pull out and do an outlap, it knows the tires are cold.

03:14:34.000 If I push it, I crash.

03:14:36.000 That's crazy.

03:14:38.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

03:14:38.000 And not only that, it has built-in tire wear.

03:14:40.000 So, for example, if I'm driving the McLaren MP430, which is a Formula One car in the simulator, it has the Pirelli softs on it.

03:14:47.000 I know that the first three laps, I can't go very fast.

03:14:50.000 I have to get temperature in the tire.

03:14:52.000 I hit my peak time, laps four through seven, and then the tire degrades.

03:14:57.000 Wow.

03:14:58.000 Yeah, it's just, it's super precise.

03:15:00.000 So then what do you do?

03:15:01.000 You pull in and restart the game?

03:15:03.000 Yeah.

03:15:03.000 Restart the simulator rather?

03:15:05.000 Yeah.

03:15:05.000 Or I just drive cars with tires that have a longer life so I can get 15 laps or 25. There's some tires I can get 35 laps out of.

03:15:13.000 But they will have a commensurate- But they have lower performance.

03:15:16.000 Yes.

03:15:17.000 Wow.

03:15:17.000 You won't have peak stickiness.

03:15:19.000 That's crazy that it's just like the actual tire in the real-world application.

03:15:23.000 You adjust everything.

03:15:25.000 We adjust the light.

03:15:26.000 So, for example, at Coda, if you ever run first thing in the morning, when you're going into turn six, you're freaking blind.

03:15:34.000 So I want to simulate that.

03:15:36.000 So I will tell it, show me sunrise.

03:15:38.000 Let me go do 10 laps at sunrise.

03:15:40.000 And I have to now pick new reference markers to turn because I know I can't see turn six and I can't see turn...

03:15:48.000 Actually, late in the day, you can't see turn 10. You have to take turn 10 blind at sunset.

03:15:53.000 No!

03:15:54.000 Yeah, you have to take turn 10, which is, by the way, a flat-out corner blind.

03:15:57.000 Oh my god, that's so crazy.

03:15:58.000 Now, are you wearing glasses?

03:16:00.000 No, I'm just in my monitors.

03:16:04.000 But when you're driving, are you wearing any kind of sunglasses?

03:16:07.000 I just have a visor, and I have multiple visors.

03:16:10.000 Is the visor...

03:16:11.000 It's UV protectant, but I generally like wearing my clear visor, not my blacked-out visors.

03:16:16.000 Because you just want to be able to see everything.

03:16:17.000 I want maximum acuity, yeah.

03:16:19.000 Wow.

03:16:22.000 Yeah, this is the one that I normally used to see. 1.00

03:16:24.000 Okay, this one's bullshit, though. 0.97

03:16:25.000 That one depends if it's moving. 0.99

03:16:28.000 Oh, see, this one I know that I'm in a race simulator. 1.00

03:16:31.000 This one's fucking weak. 0.95

03:16:33.000 But you're still getting a ton of value out of this because, remember, the big part of the simulator is learning the track, is learning the line, and learning the steering control and the throttle control. 0.99

03:16:46.000 Well, this looks pretty dope right here.

03:16:49.000 It's enough.

03:16:50.000 It'll get you enough.

03:16:52.000 So it's like you're looking through a weird windshield or something.

03:16:57.000 Yeah, the problem with VR... That's 2009. Is it just...

03:17:04.000 Yeah, that was the Williams FW16. That was the FW16, yeah.

03:17:10.000 So the refresh rate is not fast enough and the resolution's not high enough.

03:17:15.000 So it's...

03:17:15.000 I think VR is probably awesome for a flight simulator because things aren't moving that fast in a flight simulator.

03:17:22.000 Even though you're traveling fast, your relative distance is not.

03:17:25.000 But in a car...

03:17:26.000 You know it's like driving a car fast.

03:17:29.000 Things are happening like that.

03:17:30.000 What kind of refresh rate are those monitors?

03:17:32.000 My monitor is refreshing at 320 frames per second.

03:17:36.000 Wow.

03:17:37.000 It's not in Hertz?

03:17:39.000 Well, Hertz is...

03:17:40.000 That's what it is?

03:17:41.000 Hertz is frames per second?

03:17:42.000 Hertz is 1 over 60, but yeah.

03:17:44.000 Oh, okay.

03:17:45.000 They talk about it in frames per second.

03:17:47.000 So it's smooth, even though you're...

03:17:49.000 I can run...

03:17:51.000 With my computer, I can run at the maximum capacity of the simulator.

03:17:56.000 Wow.

03:17:57.000 That's wild.

03:17:59.000 But what do I not have?

03:18:01.000 I don't have movement.

03:18:03.000 I don't have yaw.

03:18:04.000 Right.

03:18:05.000 And yaw is the single most important feeling for a driver to develop.

03:18:09.000 The ability to recognize the G-force on your body?

03:18:12.000 No, it's the ability to know the difference between front and rear grip.

03:18:19.000 Oh, and the simulator doesn't have that?

03:18:21.000 Mine does not.

03:18:22.000 If I want that, I have to spend 10 times as much.

03:18:25.000 Okay, so that's those million-dollar ones.

03:18:27.000 So for me, I know that I'm oversteering only by vision.

03:18:33.000 Oh.

03:18:34.000 So if I'm driving the carousel at Coda, right, and that's a corner where you, in a high downforce car, can go flat out.

03:18:43.000 You can be pedal to the metal around 16, 17, 18 of Coda, that curve at the end.

03:18:48.000 But in most cars, you can't.

03:18:50.000 And in the Formula 3 car that I showed you the video of, you can't be flat out in that corner.

03:18:54.000 It doesn't have enough downforce.

03:18:56.000 And you judge the grip of a car, the ability around a corner.

03:19:01.000 It's based on feel, correct?

03:19:03.000 Yes.

03:19:03.000 And that's what's missing from the simulator.

03:19:05.000 So what happens in the simulator is I'm pushing.

03:19:09.000 How hard can I go?

03:19:11.000 And I know I've gone too far when I see, uh-oh, my back is spinning out from under me.

03:19:17.000 The problem is...

03:19:19.000 That's happening a split second after I would have felt it.

03:19:22.000 So in the simulator, it's actually harder to correct oversteer than in a real car.

03:19:27.000 So it's only giving you like 70% knowledge or something like that.

03:19:32.000 When it comes to oversteer.

03:19:33.000 Understeer is different.

03:19:34.000 Understeer is a visual thing.

03:19:36.000 So the simulator is perfect for understeer, but it is limited in oversteer.

03:19:41.000 Wow.

03:19:43.000 There's too many things in this world.

03:19:45.000 You could get really excited.

03:19:47.000 You are like me, that you don't want to try to play golf for the same reason.

03:19:50.000 I'm never going to play golf.

03:19:51.000 Well, I see how you've taken to bow hunting, and I see how you've taken to racing.

03:19:56.000 Yeah, there's too many things in this world.

03:20:00.000 I should probably wrap this up.

03:20:02.000 We're more than three hours in.

03:20:06.000 Isn't that wild? 0.99

03:20:07.000 Fucking time warp in this room, right? 0.99

03:20:09.000 It's the lack of light. 1.00

03:20:10.000 It's like a casino.

03:20:11.000 No windows.

03:20:12.000 It's a little bit of that, but it's just an interesting conversation, you know?

03:20:16.000 How do you like this studio?

03:20:17.000 I love it.

03:20:18.000 Compared to your last one.

03:20:19.000 Yeah, the last one, which is right next door.

03:20:22.000 No, no, I mean the one in LA, I'm sorry.

03:20:23.000 Oh, this is like the same.

03:20:24.000 It's not much different in terms of like the inside of it.

03:20:27.000 I like this one better than the one that I had in LA. But in terms of the studio space, like where I'm at, Now that I'm putting a gym here, it's great.

03:20:39.000 I loved having the gym there and having a sauna.

03:20:42.000 Are you going to bring the archery simulator thing?

03:20:45.000 Yep.

03:20:46.000 Yeah, I'm going to bring that next time.

03:20:47.000 I want to try that.

03:20:48.000 Yeah, it's fun.

03:20:48.000 You'll love it.

03:20:49.000 You don't shoot your arrow, do you?

03:20:51.000 Yeah.

03:20:52.000 You shoot everything, you just take out your regular field tips for a flathead tip that looks like the head of a nail.

03:20:56.000 Okay. 0.64

03:20:57.000 And you're shooting it into a Kevlar screen.

03:20:59.000 And it's all HD animals roaming around, and they scream, and they do everything, like the elk bugle, just like a real elk does.

03:21:07.000 It's amazing.

03:21:08.000 Yeah.

03:21:09.000 All right.

03:21:09.000 Yeah, you'll love it.

03:21:10.000 I'll get that in soon.

03:21:11.000 Next time you're here, we'll do that.

03:21:13.000 Awesome, man.

03:21:14.000 Thank you, brother.

03:21:15.000 I appreciate you.

03:21:15.000 Thank you, Jamie.

03:21:16.000 Tell everybody your Instagram and all that jazz.

03:21:18.000 Peter Atiyamd.

03:21:20.000 A-T-T-I-A-M-D. A-T-T-I-A-M-D. That's Instagram and Twitter as well.

03:21:24.000 Same thing.

03:21:25.000 And the podcast is The Drive.

03:21:27.000 The Drive.

03:21:27.000 And that's on everything?

03:21:29.000 Every single Monday, all on health and longevity.

03:21:31.000 All right.

03:21:32.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - November 17, 2021

Joe Rogan Experience #1735 - Peter Attia

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript