The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1787 - Dakota Meyer

00:00:12.000 Dakota, what's happening, brother?

00:00:13.000 How are you?

00:00:13.000 Good to see you.

00:00:14.000 What's up, man?

00:00:15.000 You wrote a book, man.

00:00:16.000 I did.

00:00:16.000 I did, with Rob O'Neill.

00:00:18.000 The Way Forward.

00:00:20.000 Master life's toughest battles and create your lasting legacy.

00:00:24.000 What drove you to this?

00:00:27.000 You know, like, I think that there was, like, a point in my life to where I kind of just, you know, kind of put it all together, like, wanting to help people.

00:00:35.000 You know, like, the way forward.

00:00:36.000 There's always a way forward. 1.00

00:00:38.000 You know, my life's been such a shit show in so many ways. 0.99

00:00:42.000 And obviously Rob's has, too. 0.99

00:00:44.000 That was one thing we could relate on is, like, you know, we both came from two different places, did two different things, but, like, there's always a way forward, you know, focusing on what matters.

00:00:52.000 Was there a time in your life where you didn't think there was a way forward?

00:00:55.000 Were you...

00:00:56.000 Yeah.

00:00:57.000 Yeah, I mean, I wrote about that in my first book about, you know, a time that I just didn't know if there was a way forward.

00:01:04.000 But, you know, what I learned was, is like, you know, when you don't see a way forward, it's because your purpose is yourself and it's not other things, right?

00:01:13.000 People that are lost, or I feel like when I'm lost is when I'm too busy focusing on things for me and my purpose is me and it's not like the things that are around me, the things that matter.

00:01:24.000 Like in what way?

00:01:25.000 What do you mean?

00:01:26.000 You know, like my kids, like my friends, my circle, right?

00:01:29.000 Like doing something bigger than me, like focusing on something that's bigger than just, you know, trying to survive.

00:01:37.000 Like, okay, well, I'm going to go pay my bills.

00:01:39.000 Well, that's not really a great purpose, right?

00:01:42.000 Right.

00:01:42.000 But finding something bigger that you can believe in, like, you know, being a firefighter or being a good dad or, you know, just trying to have goals of fitness or start a company or all those things, right?

00:01:55.000 Right.

00:01:56.000 So did you feel like at one point in time where you were only thinking about yourself and you didn't see there was any point to it all?

00:02:06.000 Yeah.

00:02:07.000 I mean, I got out of the Marine Corps and I got out and it was all about me, right?

00:02:11.000 It's like, oh, you know, I serve this country.

00:02:15.000 This country owes me now.

00:02:17.000 You know, because look, when you're in the military, the whole time you're told you're a hero.

00:02:22.000 You know what I mean?

00:02:23.000 Like, oh, everybody's just, you're just greater people, you know, or all these things.

00:02:28.000 You sacrifice for this country.

00:02:30.000 This country owes you.

00:02:31.000 And I hate that word, owes.

00:02:33.000 Right?

00:02:34.000 Like, owes.

00:02:35.000 The only thing we owe is the bank.

00:02:39.000 But, you know, that was where I was at, and I was walking around blaming all my problems on, you know, well, you know, I'm drinking all the time.

00:02:48.000 I wasn't an alcoholic, but just drinking all the time, trying to, you know, overcome the pain of, you know, the stuff that I'd seen, the things that didn't make sense.

00:02:54.000 And then, you know, when you would try to question me or hold me accountable, I'd be like, well, you didn't go through what I went through, right?

00:03:01.000 And so how are you going to argue it?

00:03:05.000 You know, and I was surrounded by that.

00:03:06.000 I was the victim.

00:03:07.000 I made myself the victim of life.

00:03:11.000 And, you know, at that point was where I got the lowest, right?

00:03:13.000 Like, I just couldn't, you know, because at some point, like, people are going to try to help you.

00:03:18.000 Like, that's the great thing about the world is people are going to help you.

00:03:21.000 People want to help.

00:03:22.000 But they can only help you so far.

00:03:24.000 Like, they're not going to drown with you.

00:03:26.000 Especially when you're not choosing to get better.

00:03:29.000 And that was where I was at, you know?

00:03:30.000 Like, just drinking all the time. 1.00

00:03:32.000 You know, I was an asshole. 1.00

00:03:34.000 I mean, I'm still an asshole, but just a different way. 1.00

00:03:37.000 You know? 1.00

00:03:38.000 I was an asshole and just... 1.00

00:03:41.000 You know, blaming the world for my problems when really I was the problem. 1.00

00:03:46.000 You know, I just didn't have anything bigger than me.

00:03:48.000 And I would surround myself by people who wanted to coddle me, right?

00:03:52.000 Like, oh, Dakota, you know, what you've gone through, you know, you deserve.

00:03:56.000 You know, it's okay.

00:03:58.000 This is normal for what you've gone through.

00:03:59.000 And it's like, no, no, no.

00:04:01.000 Like, that's what America is about, is the comeback story.

00:04:05.000 Everybody's going to go through their problems.

00:04:07.000 Everybody's going to have their lumps.

00:04:09.000 But America, they want the comeback story.

00:04:13.000 What was it that made you turn around?

00:04:16.000 Did you have a moment?

00:04:18.000 Is it something you read?

00:04:20.000 Is it something you learned?

00:04:22.000 No, I, you know, so I was living at my dad's house.

00:04:25.000 I was living with my dad.

00:04:26.000 My dad's just an incredible man.

00:04:28.000 And one night I was out drinking somewhere and I was driving home on this road and I just seen like the pain I was causing the people around me, right?

00:04:37.000 Like, My dad was never going to kick me out of the house, but I just seen the disappointment in people that I was bringing.

00:04:47.000 I was driving down the road one night and I just said, look, this is it.

00:04:52.000 I'm done.

00:04:52.000 I pulled over at my buddy's shop.

00:04:54.000 He had a welding shop.

00:04:56.000 I didn't want to inconvenience anybody to have to, well, where's he at?

00:05:00.000 This huge search.

00:05:01.000 I knew he would be in at 6 to 8 in the morning.

00:05:04.000 He comes in every day.

00:05:07.000 I pulled over and parked right in front of the bay door and pulled my gun out and I stuck it to my head and squeezed the trigger.

00:05:18.000 Somebody had unloaded that gun.

00:05:20.000 I'd shot it that day actually.

00:05:22.000 I'd shot this Glock 40 that day.

00:05:27.000 And it was the loudest click I've ever heard in my life and probably the quickest sobering thing that I've ever seen. 0.99

00:05:34.000 Holy shit. 0.99

00:05:38.000 And so I sat there and I I just told myself that if I'm going to continue to live life like I am and waste it, then I know how to load this gun. 0.99

00:05:55.000 I need to just rack it back and get it over with.

00:05:58.000 But I just made this deal with myself that if I'm going to put the car in drive and go home, that, like, this is not an option ever again.

00:06:07.000 And, you know, God gave me a different, had a different outcome for me, and I drove home.

00:06:14.000 And ever since then, I mean, you know, look, I think we all, I think we all go through moments where we don't know.

00:06:22.000 There's always these moments where we don't know if we can get out of it, right?

00:06:25.000 Like, that's normal.

00:06:27.000 Yeah.

00:06:29.000 But for that to stay that way is not normal, right?

00:06:34.000 And that was, you know, I, like, slowed up on drinking.

00:06:40.000 I didn't stop, obviously.

00:06:41.000 I didn't really slow up as where I needed to be until I had my child.

00:06:47.000 But I got a lot better, right? 0.98

00:06:48.000 I started surrounding myself with different people, people who weren't going to buy in and support my bullshit, you know? 0.82

00:06:57.000 So that moment when the gun went click, like, in your mind, is there like a clear change between before that moment and after that moment? 0.96

00:07:10.000 Was there like a realization?

00:07:16.000 Was it just like you felt like you got a second chance at life?

00:07:19.000 Yeah, I mean, look, I've...

00:07:21.000 Yeah.

00:07:22.000 I mean, I've been in so many situations where I was supposed to die, or I thought I, like, there's been at least five or six situations where it wasn't that I thought I was going to die, it was that I knew I was going to die.

00:07:34.000 And, um...

00:07:37.000 The combat situations?

00:07:38.000 The combat situations, right?

00:07:39.000 It's a totally different experience, though.

00:07:41.000 You know, this one was like...

00:07:45.000 I was like, why?

00:07:47.000 And I think at that moment I realized that I was only feeling sorry for myself because if my teammates...

00:07:53.000 If losing my teammates...

00:07:55.000 I mean, it sucks. 0.94

00:07:57.000 It still sucks. 0.70

00:07:59.000 Sometimes I don't even know if I have even came to the realization that I'll never see my guys again.

00:08:06.000 And I don't know why.

00:08:07.000 It's kind of weird, but I don't know why.

00:08:10.000 But...

00:08:12.000 I think that, like, I just realized that I need to live a life, if I don't want to do it for myself, then I need to live a life that's worthy of their sacrifices.

00:08:21.000 Right? 1.00

00:08:21.000 Like, how stupid is it? 1.00

00:08:22.000 How selfish of it? 1.00

00:08:24.000 Of me?

00:08:25.000 Someone who has seen what the cost of freedom is, or someone who has seen the sacrifices that people have gave, who don't get it.

00:08:33.000 Don't get it tomorrow.

00:08:34.000 They gave their today so that we can have a tomorrow. 1.00

00:08:36.000 And how selfish of it is for me to walk around and, you know, be a drunk asshole. 0.99

00:08:42.000 And that's the representation that I'm going to represent their sacrifices. 0.99

00:08:45.000 Like, it's just, it's such a, it's just not right.

00:08:49.000 And it was at that moment that all that started to come together.

00:08:53.000 That, no, no.

00:08:55.000 I just feel sorry for myself, not them.

00:08:59.000 They don't feel anything.

00:09:01.000 So I'm feeling sorry for myself, and as I'm doing that, I'm wasting days that I guarantee they wish they had.

00:09:08.000 Yeah.

00:09:10.000 It's such a common problem with veterans.

00:09:12.000 I mean, I believe at one point in time, I don't know what the status is now, but at one point in time, more veterans had died by suicide in Afghanistan than had died from combat.

00:09:24.000 Yeah, I mean, I've lost more guys Since being home to suicide than I ever lost in combat.

00:09:32.000 What is...

00:09:33.000 Let's see what that number is.

00:09:34.000 See if you can find...

00:09:36.000 I think...

00:09:37.000 Just Google more veterans die from suicide than combat.

00:09:43.000 Because I think that was...

00:09:44.000 What they were trying to drill into people was that asking people to go over there and fight and to see the horrors that they see and to see friends die and loved ones die and then ask them to come back and have life just be normal.

00:10:02.000 Look at this.

00:10:03.000 Four times as many troops and vets have died by suicide as in combat. 1.00

00:10:09.000 Holy shit. 0.99

00:10:11.000 So this is not an uncommon problem. 1.00

00:10:14.000 It's a giant problem.

00:10:16.000 Yeah, I mean, it's a huge problem.

00:10:18.000 I don't know what kind of training they give you when you're about to leave the military or when you're returning from combat, but do they try to give you any sort of an understanding of how to cope with this kind of stuff?

00:10:33.000 Yeah, I mean, you know, it's obviously gotten a lot better, right?

00:10:38.000 I mean, it was more the tough love.

00:10:39.000 I mean, the more that mental health is accepted, I mean, look, I mean, to be honest, I mean, as men, 10, 15 years ago, it wasn't something, it was looked at as weak, right?

00:10:52.000 You didn't hear a lot about it.

00:10:53.000 It seems like somewhere along the line, I mean, I don't know what the statistics show, but it seems like somewhere along the line, it became way more common to know people that kill themselves.

00:11:02.000 Yeah.

00:11:02.000 Yeah, I mean, and I didn't know about it until, obviously, the military, right?

00:11:08.000 I mean, I went in at 17. But no, there wasn't a lot of talk about it.

00:11:14.000 And, you know, the more we were in combat, the more you started to see it, right?

00:11:19.000 Mm-hmm.

00:11:21.000 Yeah, I mean, this thing of PTSD, but PTSD is something that the world suffers from.

00:11:26.000 It's not something that's only to veterans, right?

00:11:28.000 Don't you think that veterans have it in a larger experience if you experience combat?

00:11:33.000 I mean, the amount that they have.

00:11:35.000 I mean, so many guys that I know, like yourself or many of my other friends that are veterans, they just have memories that they can't shake.

00:11:43.000 I think that you want to talk about the group of people that have it the worst is our first responders.

00:11:51.000 Cops, EMTs.

00:11:52.000 Firefighters, EMTs.

00:11:55.000 The stuff that I've seen as being a firefighter, sometimes combat, it's no comparison.

00:12:06.000 Really?

00:12:07.000 Yeah.

00:12:10.000 Over there, the mindset's different.

00:12:13.000 Most of the people that we were part of, we were there to fight.

00:12:20.000 It's almost like watching someone in the octagon fight versus watching someone on a street fight or get jumped.

00:12:27.000 It's a different ballgame.

00:12:30.000 And, you know, everybody's suffering, right?

00:12:34.000 I mean, and so I think that, like, the mental health aspect, yeah, I mean, it's a huge, huge thing.

00:12:40.000 But I also think that the mindset, the approach that we take on it is important as well, right?

00:12:47.000 Like, I don't need to...

00:12:52.000 I don't need to be coddled, right?

00:12:54.000 Like, okay, I have PTSD. Check.

00:12:58.000 But that doesn't give me, like, a card to blame, well, why I'm an alcoholic or why I'm not getting help or why I hit my wife or why I'm in fights.

00:13:09.000 You know what I mean?

00:13:09.000 Like, well, let's get help.

00:13:11.000 Like, let's get help and let's want to get better.

00:13:13.000 You know, there's just a fine line of...

00:13:19.000 Of using it as an excuse versus as what's real on it, right?

00:13:24.000 And no one can identify that, but it's like at some point you have to look in the mirror and I mean look, Jocko talks about extreme ownership, right?

00:13:31.000 You have to look in the mirror and at the point that you can take responsibility for your actions, you can then change them.

00:13:36.000 So when you think about PTSD and you think about the effect that it has on you, is Being a firefighter, does it compound all of the PTSD that you experience as a combat veteran?

00:13:53.000 I mean, is it...

00:13:55.000 Yeah, I don't know.

00:13:57.000 Like, this was a conversation I was having this morning.

00:13:59.000 I don't know.

00:14:01.000 Like, for me, I've changed my mindset.

00:14:06.000 For me, I mean, there are some stuff that bothers me.

00:14:10.000 I mean, obviously, look, every time it changes you.

00:14:14.000 Or for me, it does.

00:14:16.000 But now I look at it like when I come in and I'm there when somebody passes away.

00:14:25.000 I look at it as an honor.

00:14:27.000 I got to share that moment with them.

00:14:30.000 As long as I'm doing whatever I can to make that moment better for them, then that's all I can do.

00:14:41.000 I'll do whatever it takes to make that moment better.

00:14:44.000 But at some point, we really have no control of anything in life.

00:14:52.000 We have some control, right?

00:14:54.000 But yeah, those kind of experiences, like the experience of seeing someone die, for a lot of people, it doesn't just change you, but it makes you...

00:15:08.000 I don't know what the best way to say it is, but you're just devastated by it.

00:15:12.000 And every time it happens, it becomes compounded.

00:15:14.000 It's more and more and more.

00:15:17.000 One of the things that I've thought about a lot with police officers, because I feel like there's bad cops.

00:15:24.000 We all know there's bad cops, just like there's bad everything else in life.

00:15:27.000 But I think that most cops are the experiences that they have in situations where their life is threatened, situations where they pull people over, they have no idea if this person has a gun, if this person's a criminal.

00:15:42.000 They just don't know.

00:15:43.000 There's so many moments in their life where they... 0.99

00:15:46.000 I'm sure they've seen all the YouTube videos that I've seen where cops get shot at and cops get killed and run over by cars and all that crazy shit. 0.98

00:15:53.000 That has got to be always chipping at your mental well-being. 0.96

00:15:59.000 Yeah, I mean, you're always living in that sense of that fight, right?

00:16:05.000 That fight or flight.

00:16:07.000 And yeah, I mean, look, the respect I have for cops is just, it's astronomical, right?

00:16:13.000 Like, you know, being on scenes and seeing like, look, as a firefighter, the way I'll describe it is cops are kind of like the dad of the country.

00:16:24.000 When they show up, like, nobody's happy.

00:16:27.000 Like, there's never a time that people are like, you know, like, somebody's going to be mad, right?

00:16:32.000 Yeah, somebody's going to be mad.

00:16:33.000 Somebody's mad.

00:16:34.000 When the firefighters show up, we're kind of like the cool uncles.

00:16:37.000 You know what I mean?

00:16:37.000 Like, we really can't, what are we going to do wrong, right?

00:16:40.000 You're going to help.

00:16:40.000 Yeah, and then, you know, when EMS shows up, they're kind of like the moms, right?

00:16:44.000 Like, they're the caring, they're going to fix it, they're going to, the empathy is there.

00:16:50.000 And I'm not saying that all three don't have empathy.

00:16:52.000 I'm just saying that they all have to hold themselves in a different way because they're all there for a different role.

00:16:57.000 And, you know, being a cop, you know, look, those guys are just, they're incredible because they could go from coming over and, you know, Miss whoever, Miss, you know, Miss Nancy or whatever,

00:17:13.000 Miss Smith, you know, she's Having, you know, she might think somebody's at her house or, you know, maybe the next door neighbor's a little too loud and, you know, he's got to handle it one way and then the next person that he pulls over, he could walk up to a car. 0.56

00:17:26.000 They could walk up to a car and could pull a gun and shoot him.

00:17:28.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:17:29.000 And they have to be ready for everything.

00:17:32.000 Right.

00:17:34.000 And...

00:17:35.000 Yeah, those guys are just, they're a different, they have to live a different life, you know?

00:17:40.000 A totally different life than everybody else.

00:17:42.000 And we expect them to just be able to do it and be able to handle it.

00:17:46.000 And the factor we don't take into account, you know, is the humanization factor, right?

00:17:53.000 I mean, are you always on when you're having a bad day?

00:17:56.000 You know what I mean?

00:17:56.000 Like, their kid could have been late from school.

00:18:00.000 They could have a sick kid. 0.99

00:18:01.000 They could be arguing with their wife.

00:18:02.000 Sure.

00:18:03.000 I mean, like, or husband or whatever, right?

00:18:05.000 And we don't ever look at that and say, you know, well, what did they just go through?

00:18:13.000 What's going on there?

00:18:14.000 Like, they literally show up to fix everybody else's problems.

00:18:18.000 Right.

00:18:20.000 You know, while they have to deal with their own.

00:18:22.000 Yeah.

00:18:23.000 And they're scrutinized on how they do it. 0.97

00:18:26.000 Not just scrutinized, but, you know, if they fuck up, it ruins their entire life. 0.98

00:18:30.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:18:31.000 You know?

00:18:31.000 Everything's on the line.

00:18:32.000 Yeah.

00:18:33.000 It's a very, very, very difficult job.

00:18:37.000 And I don't think it gets nearly the respect that it deserves. 0.99

00:18:40.000 And all we concentrate on is the ones that suck. 1.00

00:18:44.000 The cops that suck at their job. 1.00

00:18:45.000 The cops that are assholes. 1.00

00:18:46.000 The cops that are abusive. 1.00

00:18:48.000 That's what we think about.

00:18:49.000 That's it.

00:18:50.000 We think about cops that plant evidence.

00:18:52.000 Cops that shoot people unnecessarily.

00:18:54.000 That's all we think about.

00:18:55.000 Because they're the only ones that get attention.

00:18:58.000 Yeah.

00:18:59.000 Right?

00:18:59.000 Like, they're the only ones you see.

00:19:01.000 I mean, it's kind of like everything.

00:19:02.000 It's kind of like everything.

00:19:03.000 Like, you only see the bad ones.

00:19:05.000 The media loves to focus on the bad ones.

00:19:07.000 Because guess what?

00:19:09.000 Hate and fear makes money.

00:19:13.000 You know, I truly believe that...

00:19:16.000 Look, and love will go further than hate and fear.

00:19:20.000 Love will 100% go further, right?

00:19:23.000 But hate and fear, think about any time you feel fear or you hate, that was put into you by somebody else 90% of the time.

00:19:33.000 Look at the stuff we're scared of.

00:19:36.000 What, because somebody told us?

00:19:38.000 Right, because, you know what I mean?

00:19:40.000 It's like...

00:19:40.000 Like what kind of stuff you mean?

00:19:42.000 I mean, like, I don't know.

00:19:44.000 Like, sometimes, you know, I'll get anxiety about, well, I mean, just like right now, like, well, you know, let's go pull our...

00:19:53.000 How about this?

00:19:54.000 Toilet paper.

00:19:55.000 You get anxiety about toilet paper?

00:19:56.000 No, I'm saying like, no, no, no.

00:19:57.000 I'm saying like, no, I'm saying like, whenever the pandemic hit...

00:20:01.000 Right.

00:20:02.000 You know, it's contagious, right?

00:20:04.000 Like, freaking out.

00:20:05.000 Fear is contagious.

00:20:07.000 Somebody's seen somebody go buy tulip paper, and it's like, the next thing you know, tulip paper's all out.

00:20:12.000 Right?

00:20:12.000 Like, all these things are contagious.

00:20:16.000 And it's like, fear sells.

00:20:19.000 Fear, I mean, like, if you thought about it, what was tulip paper going to do for you in this, right?

00:20:24.000 And at the end of the day, At the end of the day, we could live without toilet paper.

00:20:29.000 You know what I mean?

00:20:30.000 It's not a survival instinct.

00:20:31.000 I think what happened during the pandemic was people were tested in a way that they had never been tested before.

00:20:38.000 We had never experienced a moment in our life where there was a real fear that society was going to be completely disrupted and that a disease was going to ravage everybody.

00:20:48.000 And even though it turned out to be a terrible disease, it wasn't nearly as bad as what we were fearful of.

00:20:56.000 What we were fearful of was some kind of plague that would just wipe everybody out.

00:21:01.000 I think that initial mindset that people had was very difficult to shake.

00:21:06.000 Even now, that COVID, this new variant, this Omicron, is not nearly as dangerous.

00:21:12.000 It's much more contagious, but not nearly as deadly.

00:21:15.000 There's some people that still want to treat it like it's the thing that's going to kill everybody.

00:21:21.000 They still want to have this sort of same mindset because that's the initial mindset they had.

00:21:26.000 So I think when people were stockpiling toilet paper and stockpiling food, there was a fear mindset, a mindset of the unknown that gripped people that a lot of folks are just not willing to let go of.

00:21:39.000 Yeah.

00:21:39.000 I mean, that's a whole thing that I don't understand.

00:21:45.000 Well, you've experienced a lot of real danger and real life-threatening situations.

00:21:53.000 You've taken lives.

00:21:54.000 You've seen people's lives leave their body.

00:21:58.000 One of the things that I truly appreciate about veterans is You don't get to do what they do unless you've experienced massive amounts of adversity.

00:22:13.000 If you're talking about someone who's a SEAL, just getting through buds. 0.98

00:22:17.000 What fucking percentage of human beings that walk around could do that? 0.99

00:22:20.000 Very few. 1.00

00:22:21.000 They're different humans.

00:22:23.000 And it's because they've overcome adversity.

00:22:26.000 And for some people, Any kind of thing that throws their regular routine off track will fuck them up.

00:22:33.000 Hey, Jamie, can you tell Jeff to bring in the coffee and cups of water too?

00:22:37.000 There's no cups for the water.

00:22:40.000 Yeah, I mean, but don't you think that, like, The people who haven't...

00:22:46.000 The only way you don't get exposed to adversity is by fear.

00:22:53.000 And so again, whatever's holding you back from doing what you want to do, or trying things, or experiencing things, Yeah.

00:23:03.000 It's never as bad.

00:23:05.000 I mean, obviously there are some things that are as bad.

00:23:08.000 But most of the time, you know, you've been so worried about something and it's not really as bad as you thought it was.

00:23:16.000 Right.

00:23:16.000 Most of the time, yeah.

00:23:17.000 And so that's my thing is, is like, why were you fearful of it?

00:23:23.000 I don't think that we were born with fear.

00:23:26.000 I think we were born with natural survivability and instinct, right?

00:23:30.000 But I don't think you're definitely not born with hate.

00:23:34.000 Right.

00:23:34.000 Yeah, you're definitely not born with hate.

00:23:36.000 I mean, I think some people are...

00:23:39.000 Unfortunately, I mean, I'm just guessing, I'm not really a psychologist, but I think, unfortunately, there's a certain level of fear and anxiety I think kids do adapt or adopt, rather, from their parents.

00:23:52.000 I think there's, some of it might even be in their genes.

00:23:56.000 You know, people that are neurotic and weirded out, maybe they're modeling their parents, maybe they're paying attention to how their parents handle things and they handle things similarly.

00:24:05.000 For sure.

00:24:05.000 Or maybe it's passed down.

00:24:08.000 I think there's a lot of shit that's passed down to people. 1.00

00:24:11.000 You know, I really do. 0.99

00:24:12.000 Just like there's a lot of positive traits that get passed down to people.

00:24:16.000 I think there's a lot of negative ones too, unfortunately.

00:24:19.000 And I think, you know, your children learn in many ways, whether it's through genes or whether it's through experience.

00:24:26.000 They learn in many ways through the way the parents handle stuff.

00:24:30.000 But do you think that that's in your DNA, or do you think that that's because that's how you've seen it done, right?

00:24:38.000 Could be both.

00:24:39.000 You know what I mean?

00:24:40.000 Yeah, it could be both, but I also think it's like, I think you need some challenges.

00:24:45.000 You know, some of my favorite people besides veterans are jujitsu people.

00:24:49.000 And one of the reasons why is because they experience so much adversity.

00:24:56.000 It's safe, it's all controlled, it's in a controlled environment, but in that moment when someone's trying to strangle you and you're literally fighting for your life, it doesn't feel safe.

00:25:07.000 It doesn't feel controlled. 0.99

00:25:08.000 Someone's got your back and that forearm goes underneath your neck and you're like, oh shit. 1.00

00:25:13.000 You know the reality is you're playing a game and that game is I'm gonna kill you with my bare hands. 1.00

00:25:20.000 And when that guy gets your back and gets your neck, he just killed you. 1.00

00:25:24.000 And then you tap and you go again.

00:25:26.000 But even though you survive and even though it's safe, it's a way of recreating.

00:25:32.000 It's like a facsimile, you know?

00:25:34.000 It's like a reasonable version of a life or death scenario that gets to play out all the time.

00:25:41.000 Most of the time it's very peaceful.

00:25:43.000 Most of the time it's fun.

00:25:44.000 You slap hands.

00:25:46.000 It's all good. 1.00

00:25:46.000 But there's moments In these struggles where you're out of breath and then all of a sudden this guy mounts you and you're like, oh fuck. 1.00

00:25:54.000 Like those moments, most people never experience that thing where you have to push because either you're going to escape or you're going to submit. 0.95

00:26:05.000 Having moments in your life where you're really tested gets you to understand who you are, gets you to understand where your character lies, gets you to understand what your thresholds are, where your strengths are, where your weaknesses are,

00:26:21.000 lets you strengthen those weaknesses in a very real, usable way.

00:26:25.000 I think most people, they don't experience enough difficult scenarios in their life.

00:26:32.000 One of the things that I love most about jujitsu is you could just take a regular person and you could transform them.

00:26:37.000 And through this difficult game that you're playing, you can change the way you interface with reality.

00:26:46.000 You'll have more character.

00:26:47.000 You'll have more ability to withstand difficult situations.

00:26:52.000 They'll be more normal for you.

00:26:54.000 Yeah, I mean, look, until you've gone through it, I call it the lens of life.

00:26:59.000 You know, your lens gets shaped on what to focus on by what you've seen through it, right, and kind of prioritizing.

00:27:06.000 You know, football was that for me.

00:27:08.000 I mean, I do.

00:27:09.000 I don't roll enough, but, like, I do jujitsu, but, like, you know, football was that for me growing up.

00:27:15.000 It was about getting hit and about having to get back up, right?

00:27:19.000 About someone stopping you.

00:27:20.000 It was a team sport.

00:27:21.000 You're relying on other people to help protect you.

00:27:25.000 You're not going to win a football game by yourself.

00:27:28.000 It was kind of like that, about lose five yards and then have to get back up and try to get it again.

00:27:36.000 You know, that was what it was for me growing up.

00:27:38.000 That was my contact sport about, you know, look, you can look over and see what guys are going to rock your bell, right?

00:27:46.000 And that was kind of what it was for me.

00:27:48.000 Look, I love Jiu-Jitsu, too.

00:27:49.000 I mean, Jiu-Jitsu is exactly what you're talking about.

00:27:51.000 I mean, there's nothing more nerve-wracking than someone being on top of you and you can't breathe, right?

00:27:59.000 Because at that point, they have control of you.

00:28:02.000 At that point, they're deciding your fate.

00:28:04.000 Yeah.

00:28:04.000 I mean, yeah, I mean, we could, you know, we could roll jujitsu, and if they get their arm around your neck, I mean, they get to decide if they let go, you know, and it's a real vulnerability and test of you being there, right?

00:28:16.000 I mean, the more experience you have in adversity and tough times and coming out of it and trying to figure out, and I think that's the cool thing about jujitsu is, is you roll, and then you try to figure out Okay, so obviously,

00:28:32.000 when you have to tap, that was not where you wanted to be.

00:28:35.000 Right.

00:28:36.000 How'd you get there?

00:28:36.000 How did I get there?

00:28:38.000 Right.

00:28:38.000 Like, what did I do wrong?

00:28:39.000 Right.

00:28:40.000 And isn't there so much to be said about that?

00:28:44.000 Like, what if we did that in life?

00:28:46.000 Like, check.

00:28:47.000 I got here.

00:28:48.000 I messed up.

00:28:49.000 But the problem is in life, now, or the way the world is now, that You can't.

00:28:57.000 You can't go back.

00:28:59.000 Like, you can't say, oh, well, I did the best I could right there.

00:29:04.000 I wouldn't do it again, and this is how I would fix it.

00:29:06.000 Because now, like, the world just doesn't accept it.

00:29:09.000 Like, it's almost like the ha-ha gotcha, right? 0.56

00:29:11.000 Like, it's a...

00:29:12.000 It is just...

00:29:13.000 To apologize at this day and age, like, means you're done.

00:29:17.000 Like, it's almost like apologies are...

00:29:22.000 It just means it's going to be brought up and held against you forever.

00:29:24.000 It's like you just admitted to what they were right about.

00:29:28.000 And it's like, how does that make sense?

00:29:30.000 Like, how do you get better from not messing up?

00:29:33.000 Like, how do you get better from...

00:29:35.000 I mean, I mess up every single day.

00:29:37.000 And I just apologize.

00:29:39.000 And I mean it.

00:29:40.000 I mean it when I'm sorry.

00:29:41.000 Like, I don't want to hurt anybody.

00:29:43.000 People would say, at a certain point in time, if you keep apologizing for the same thing, you're just getting away with apologizing, you're not fixing yourself, right?

00:29:52.000 But that's a difference, right?

00:29:54.000 That's one thing, but it's a difference for me to just apologize when I'm sorry.

00:29:58.000 Like, I messed up, hey, sorry, I didn't understand how this made you feel, or I didn't mean to do that.

00:30:06.000 It's just being honest.

00:30:08.000 It's just being honest.

00:30:09.000 Yeah, I think that's one of the most important things for a person.

00:30:12.000 What I was getting at with the jujitsu analogy is that the difficulty is it transfers into your life and it can enhance you.

00:30:22.000 But it seems like the difficulty of combat is way more intense and way more insane and obviously way more intense and way more insane.

00:30:29.000 But way more difficult to overcome and to learn things from.

00:30:34.000 It seems like for a lot of the combat veterans that I talk to, their experiences are kind of like burned in their brain in some way.

00:30:43.000 Where it's not like you're, I'm sure they're stronger because of the adversity they've been through, but also some of it is too much.

00:30:52.000 And it just leaves them shooken.

00:30:56.000 You know, they used to call it shell shock.

00:30:57.000 Remember?

00:30:58.000 I mean, that's what they used to call it before.

00:30:59.000 It was PTSD. But troops were coming back from Vietnam.

00:31:02.000 They called them fucking shell-shocked. 0.99

00:31:04.000 I mean, I think that was me for a long time, for sure. 0.98

00:31:10.000 I mean, that was me for a long time.

00:31:11.000 Did you get counseling for that?

00:31:13.000 Did you, like, how did you...

00:31:15.000 I went to Mexico.

00:31:17.000 What was in Mexico?

00:31:20.000 I went down and I did Ibogaine.

00:31:22.000 Oh.

00:31:25.000 Did we talk about that the first time you were on the podcast?

00:31:27.000 No, I think I did it afterwards.

00:31:28.000 Oh, really?

00:31:29.000 Interesting.

00:31:31.000 How was that?

00:31:34.000 It gave me my life back.

00:31:36.000 It gave me my life back.

00:31:39.000 I went down and I just got to the end.

00:31:43.000 I talked about it in this book.

00:31:45.000 I was going through my divorce.

00:31:50.000 You talk about not knowing what was next.

00:31:53.000 Literally, I was melting down.

00:31:57.000 Just melting down from the inside.

00:32:02.000 And finally, one of my friends looked at me and he's like, hey, I just went and did this.

00:32:09.000 This is the date you're going.

00:32:10.000 You need to go do this.

00:32:12.000 And it was at that point, like, you know, I grew up in Kentucky, and I, I mean, I grew up with weed is bad, right?

00:32:20.000 I mean, all this, right?

00:32:21.000 You know what I mean?

00:32:21.000 And for me, it was just such a, it was just such a, to think that I was going to go do psychedelics.

00:32:28.000 Right.

00:32:28.000 It was just like such a, like, it was like a moral thing for me, right?

00:32:32.000 I mean, it was a moral, moral...

00:32:34.000 Dilemma.

00:32:35.000 Dilemma.

00:32:35.000 Yeah.

00:32:36.000 Yeah.

00:32:38.000 But, I mean, it was all I had left, and I knew that for my daughters I needed to do something.

00:32:42.000 Can you describe the experience?

00:32:44.000 Yeah, I mean, I went down and...

00:32:46.000 Where'd you go?

00:32:48.000 I flew into San Diego, and then we just went across the border somewhere.

00:32:52.000 Oh, it was close to Tijuana?

00:32:54.000 South of that.

00:32:55.000 It started with an E. I don't know where it was.

00:32:59.000 But I went down there and took the Ibogaine at 8 p.m.

00:33:03.000 at night on Friday.

00:33:05.000 And I kicked in like an hour later and He was it was like I was walking through this This Like, gloomy city.

00:33:17.000 I was kind of like walking through a gloomy city, like overcast.

00:33:20.000 Does that make sense?

00:33:21.000 Yeah.

00:33:21.000 And I just remember, like, I went into this one room, and it was like, I mean, I could see the street signs and everything.

00:33:28.000 Like, I went in this one room, and I walked out on this stage, and there was, like, all these people in this room.

00:33:33.000 And it was like they were going by, like, you know, like those old slideshows, like they're just spinning by?

00:33:38.000 And I was seeing these people, and I was in there, and I just felt this, like, everybody was disappointed in me.

00:33:47.000 I see all these people and I just felt all this disappointment.

00:33:50.000 I was running around going up to people.

00:33:53.000 What can I fix?

00:33:55.000 How can I fix this?

00:33:56.000 What did I do wrong?

00:33:57.000 I'm sorry.

00:33:59.000 And it was all these people that I... Just people in my life.

00:34:06.000 I could see their faces.

00:34:07.000 People in my life that I've tried so hard to be good enough for.

00:34:10.000 You ain't going to be good enough for them, right?

00:34:15.000 And so I left that room.

00:34:17.000 I was in there for a few hours.

00:34:18.000 And I left that room.

00:34:21.000 And then I was walking through the town.

00:34:23.000 And I would go up and I would look at these, like, the, like, these fuel gauges.

00:34:27.000 I could see these fuel gauges.

00:34:28.000 And they were, like, it had E for empty.

00:34:32.000 Or, yeah, E for empty.

00:34:34.000 And then F, it meant, like, finished.

00:34:37.000 And everything was, like, this far from finished.

00:34:40.000 It was like I never finished anything.

00:34:42.000 And then I seen this, like, beautiful ball light, and I went to it, and in it was, like, my daughter's playing.

00:34:51.000 And I just felt, like, so much peace.

00:34:57.000 And then there was, like, obviously, like, different moments of, I'll never forget this one moment in it.

00:35:02.000 I just, like, I almost, like, because, I mean, you could see.

00:35:07.000 I mean, I could, like, open my eyes.

00:35:09.000 I mean, it was really blurry, but, like, I was present, right?

00:35:13.000 And I was going to just ask the doctor.

00:35:16.000 Like, I was like, I just don't want to be here anymore.

00:35:18.000 Like, I can't do this.

00:35:19.000 And I knew that he was going to say, there's nothing I can do about it.

00:35:24.000 So I stayed there and I just remember it breaking my ego.

00:35:27.000 I remember focusing on my ego.

00:35:29.000 I remember like fighting it just like just realizing that that all this was ego that my ego just The best way to describe it was like it didn't make me like you know like when you drink like you kind of feel numb This is like my soul like it was like it was just it just like I It was like my soul had gone through a workout.

00:35:51.000 Like a workout on it, right? 0.70

00:35:53.000 Like just an ass-kicking workout. 0.98

00:35:56.000 And it just broke my ego. 0.98

00:35:58.000 You know, like it just...

00:35:59.000 It just showed me so much about my ego.

00:36:02.000 And there was just...

00:36:04.000 I just remember at one point I was like, I don't care.

00:36:06.000 I don't even care anymore.

00:36:07.000 I don't care what people think.

00:36:08.000 I don't care.

00:36:08.000 I'm not going to live by what people think.

00:36:10.000 I remember all I could just say back and forth was, I don't care.

00:36:14.000 I don't care.

00:36:15.000 This is while you were tripping?

00:36:16.000 While I was tripping.

00:36:17.000 And so I was on it until from 8 p.m.

00:36:20.000 on Friday night, and I came out of it at like 2 or 3 p.m.

00:36:22.000 on Saturday.

00:36:25.000 And I came out of it and I was mad.

00:36:27.000 The guy that sent me there, I was so mad at.

00:36:30.000 I was like, I didn't need this.

00:36:32.000 I was like, I didn't need to feel like this.

00:36:34.000 I felt terrible.

00:36:36.000 Why are you mad at him?

00:36:38.000 Well, because I was like, you know, you told me this is going to help me.

00:36:42.000 And I didn't need to see all my problems, right?

00:36:44.000 It kind of like just brought my problems out and made me look at them and realized that That I need to do something to change these.

00:36:52.000 And...

00:36:52.000 So why would you be mad at him, then?

00:36:54.000 Well, I was mad because he sent me there, and I thought he was gonna help me, and I felt like it made me worse, right?

00:36:59.000 In that moment, you did?

00:37:00.000 In that moment.

00:37:01.000 And then I did DMT the next day, 5-MEO. And that was what brought it all together.

00:37:10.000 The next day we did 5-MeO, and I was so, like, I was down.

00:37:15.000 I was depressed.

00:37:16.000 I was, like, upset because it just, like, I was like, gosh, I just didn't need to see all this.

00:37:22.000 But I don't understand.

00:37:23.000 If you think it's beneficial, why were you upset at him?

00:37:26.000 And why did you think you didn't need to see it?

00:37:29.000 Well, what I'm saying is all of it together was beneficial.

00:37:33.000 But the Bible game by itself wasn't?

00:37:35.000 The Ibogaine, well, I mean, no, I think it opened Pandora's box for me, right?

00:37:39.000 Because it made you think about things.

00:37:40.000 Yeah.

00:37:41.000 But isn't it better maybe to think about them than to suppress them in the back of your head? 0.97

00:37:46.000 I mean, the experience, it was like an ass-kicking, right? 0.97

00:37:49.000 Right. 0.99

00:37:49.000 It was just like, it was like the ultimate ass-kicking. 0.99

00:37:52.000 It was miserable. 0.99

00:37:53.000 Like, I was throwing up.

00:37:54.000 I'm saying it's good for you.

00:37:55.000 I'm saying, like, but when I put it together with the DMT, and I did the DMT the next day, it brought it all back together, right?

00:38:01.000 Like, you know, after I did the DMT, I'll never forget.

00:38:06.000 I took the hit of it, and I laid back, and it was like I was gone through this tube.

00:38:14.000 It was just like this tube, almost like a water slide, right?

00:38:17.000 Yeah, I've done it.

00:38:20.000 You feel like you're in the center of the universe or something, like you don't exist anymore.

00:38:24.000 It was beautiful.

00:38:25.000 It was so beautiful.

00:38:26.000 The white that I seen was like...

00:38:28.000 There's no white. 0.93

00:38:29.000 There's no color here that could ever do the same.

00:38:34.000 It was so beautiful.

00:38:35.000 I felt so much love.

00:38:37.000 It was pure love.

00:38:39.000 It was how I felt whenever I met my kids.

00:38:45.000 Whenever I was there, when Attlee was born, when I met Sailor, Like, the love that I have for them, it was like that, but times a million.

00:38:53.000 You could just feel it, and it was, like, so good.

00:38:55.000 Like, it just showed that, like, there is good.

00:38:59.000 And for me, I put it together, and it's like, it's inside me.

00:39:04.000 Good's inside of us.

00:39:06.000 Feeling good.

00:39:07.000 Like, those good things are inside of us, and it's just our ego that keeps us from feeling and being happy.

00:39:15.000 So, the Ibogaine gave you this understanding of all the conflicts that you've caused and whether it's interrelational with other people or even with yourself by not finishing things and not following through on things.

00:39:32.000 Do you think that it was trying to show you that some part of your problems lie in the fact that maybe you don't respect your own efforts?

00:39:42.000 Like when you look at that you haven't finished things, do you think like it was showing you that you don't have a respect for yourself because you don't respect the effort that you put into things?

00:39:53.000 Yeah, I think it showed me that like Yeah, I mean, I think it showed me that, like...

00:40:02.000 Yeah, because I don't, right?

00:40:03.000 Like, I don't...

00:40:03.000 I look at...

00:40:06.000 I look at everything as, well, if you do good, well, that was what you were supposed to do.

00:40:11.000 Right.

00:40:12.000 And if you, like, the only thing that I've, and I still struggle with it, right?

00:40:17.000 Like, the only thing that I feel is, like, whenever I mess up.

00:40:21.000 You know, like, I just, I live in this mindset of, well, I can always be better, so I just, you know, like, I stay focused on that aspect of it, of, like, What did I do wrong?

00:40:33.000 And it's a hard thing.

00:40:36.000 It's a hard balance.

00:40:38.000 Because I always want to be better.

00:40:40.000 I always want to be better.

00:40:42.000 I want to give you my best.

00:40:44.000 And, you know, like, so I think that that was what it kind of showed me was that, hey, you know, like, it's okay to, you know, you can do your best.

00:40:55.000 And as long as you do your best, that's what matters.

00:40:57.000 And as long as your intent's good, That's what matters.

00:41:00.000 Like, you're going to mess up.

00:41:02.000 Like, that's normal.

00:41:03.000 And I think it was, like, it gave me, like, I don't know, maybe a little grace on myself of, you know, because I just have this, I have this problem of I just always want to do more.

00:41:17.000 You know, I always want to do more for people.

00:41:21.000 I don't know.

00:41:23.000 It plays against me a lot.

00:41:25.000 You always want to do more for people.

00:41:26.000 Do you always want to do more for yourself as well?

00:41:29.000 Do you always want to do more in terms of the effort that you put towards things?

00:41:33.000 When you say you always want to do more, is it just with doing things for people?

00:41:38.000 I mean, yeah, I mean, like, I don't...

00:41:42.000 I mean, like, the more I can help myself, the more I can help people.

00:41:47.000 You know, like, I... Like, if I could do anything in the world, like, I would take all the pain off of everybody else, right?

00:41:53.000 Like, I don't want anybody to hurt, you know, and I just...

00:41:58.000 I think that everything that I do is about trying to help people.

00:42:04.000 That's kind of what I find fulfilling, is seeing people happy.

00:42:12.000 Well, that's a beautiful thing, man.

00:42:13.000 I mean, that's a great way to think about life, too.

00:42:16.000 If you enjoy making people happy and you know how to make people happy, you know there's things you can do that can enhance people's happiness.

00:42:24.000 You know, we were talking before this podcast about a guy that you pulled out of a truck that went into a pond as a fireman.

00:42:34.000 A crazy experience that you had.

00:42:38.000 Just tell the story. 1.00

00:42:40.000 It's fucking nuts. 0.97

00:42:43.000 Yeah, there was a, and obviously I can't get into many details of it, but there was, we had a call. 0.99

00:42:50.000 We have a lot of, I get to serve with a lot of great people.

00:42:54.000 And a call, a truck had like gone underwater inside of a pond, rolled up, and we were initially told that it was stuck on the side of the pond.

00:43:05.000 And had no clue that it was going to be underwater.

00:43:08.000 Got there and couldn't see the truck.

00:43:11.000 And so I'd gone over the fence and another guy come with me and started going to this pond because I see two people standing on the side of it.

00:43:21.000 And I thought they were already out or the guy drove off, whatever, who knows.

00:43:25.000 And so I get there and I could see this little white square out in the middle of the pond.

00:43:31.000 And this woman goes, she said, he's still in there.

00:43:36.000 And I said, in the truck?

00:43:38.000 And she said, yes, he's in the truck.

00:43:43.000 And it was her son.

00:43:46.000 Her son or some way they were related.

00:43:49.000 At some point they were related.

00:43:52.000 She said he's still in there.

00:43:53.000 They had watched this all happen.

00:43:54.000 They were the ones that called.

00:43:57.000 And so I was in full bunker gear, you know, like our turnout gear.

00:44:02.000 And so I took my coat off, took my pants off, and other guys are showing up on scene at the same time.

00:44:10.000 And so I jumped in the water, swam out to the truck, and then as soon as I got out there, you know, the truck was probably three and a half, four feet deep.

00:44:20.000 The top of it was.

00:44:22.000 And so I swam down to try to see if the windows were open.

00:44:28.000 I thought the window might be open, and it wasn't.

00:44:31.000 And so then I think to myself, well, where's my window punch at?

00:44:35.000 Well, it's in my bunker gear that's on the side of the...

00:44:38.000 Of the pond.

00:44:40.000 And I was so mad at myself.

00:44:42.000 Well, at this time, my buddy Eric and my buddy Jonathan jumped in right behind, started swimming out there, no questions asked.

00:44:49.000 I mean, just because they knew it was just to get down.

00:44:51.000 It was time to do it.

00:44:55.000 They got out there, and then one of the police officers threw me her baton. 0.97

00:44:59.000 So I got it, and then I couldn't bust the window open with it.

00:45:03.000 I couldn't get enough leverage underwater.

00:45:04.000 And my buddy Eric, I mean this dude is like, he's jacked, right?

00:45:08.000 So he's just beating this window and beats it open.

00:45:14.000 And he beat the back window open.

00:45:15.000 I told him to beat the back window open first.

00:45:17.000 It was a four-door truck.

00:45:18.000 Because I was afraid the guy was still conscious.

00:45:22.000 And I was afraid that he was going to reach out and grab me and drown me.

00:45:26.000 So I was like, if I can come in through the back window, he can't just immediately grab me.

00:45:31.000 But I couldn't get in through the back window because the truck was full of stuff.

00:45:34.000 The whole backseat was full of stuff.

00:45:36.000 So then Eric beats the front window out, and so he did.

00:45:40.000 So then I dove down, dove in the truck, and the guy was in there, and he was floating.

00:45:50.000 And you couldn't see because it was in a pond, but he was up against kind of like the roof of the truck inside.

00:45:58.000 I tried to reach in and grab him, or reach and grabbed him, and I just kind of felt where it was up at top, and I grabbed his collar of his shirt because I knew I could just get him out of the window, which is pretty tight to fit a person through a window, right?

00:46:11.000 So I pulled him out, and whenever I did, I kind of, like, sank because I had him with me.

00:46:18.000 And I just knew I couldn't let him go because if I did let him go, I'd never find him in the pond.

00:46:24.000 And yeah, I thought I was going to drown.

00:46:27.000 How deep is the pond?

00:46:28.000 Probably eight, ten feet deep.

00:46:32.000 But it's mud at the bottom.

00:46:34.000 So I tried to push off the bottom with my feet.

00:46:37.000 And my buddy, he ended up grabbing me.

00:46:40.000 He got me by my belt.

00:46:41.000 I guess I kind of went over a little bit.

00:46:44.000 He grabbed me by my belt and pulled me up.

00:46:46.000 We get to the top, and the guys, obviously, he drowned.

00:46:51.000 And so we swam him back, myself, Eric, and Jonathan swam him back to the shore, got him up on shore, and then, you know, everybody kicked in and started doing CPR. He was breathing on his own by the time the helicopter landed.

00:47:04.000 And, you know, we had Tiffany there, who was just an incredible, you know, just the EMS people were just incredible.

00:47:10.000 How do you get the water out of someone's lungs when they do that?

00:47:12.000 Well, you start doing suction, right?

00:47:14.000 So they put an eye gel in to establish an airway.

00:47:18.000 But getting CPR going, they put airway in and they start doing suction.

00:47:22.000 I don't know how much fluid she brought off, but they brought a ton of fluid off of him, just doing continuous suction.

00:47:29.000 So what would you do if you didn't have equipment there?

00:47:32.000 I mean, you just, I mean, compressions, right?

00:47:34.000 Compressions and trying to, you know, bag, trying to get as much water as you can off.

00:47:38.000 You know, they might aspirate, you know, trying to keep that aspiration out of the lungs, right?

00:47:44.000 And me, you know, the next day, myself, Eric, and Jonathan, we actually had to go to the doctor because we all have aspiration pneumonia right now.

00:47:53.000 Did this just happen?

00:47:55.000 Yeah, I got aspiration pneumonia, right?

00:47:58.000 That's what my cough is from.

00:47:59.000 When did this happen?

00:48:00.000 How long ago?

00:48:01.000 Tuesday.

00:48:01.000 Wow.

00:48:02.000 Yeah.

00:48:03.000 But, you know, look, the guy, you know, we get updates every day because we all, I mean, you know, we all want this guy to make it.

00:48:12.000 And he, I mean, he's off life support.

00:48:14.000 He's talking.

00:48:15.000 Wow.

00:48:16.000 How long was he in there for?

00:48:19.000 I know that we were on scene from the time that we got there until the time we pulled him out.

00:48:24.000 I mean, it's probably 10-12 minutes.

00:48:27.000 But, you know, what you don't know is you don't know how long...

00:48:29.000 Was he in there before that?

00:48:30.000 The air was in the truck, or how long there was, you know, something, you know, breathing room in the truck, you know?

00:48:36.000 Right. 1.00

00:48:36.000 Fuck. 1.00

00:48:38.000 But, it's like, look, I'm surrounded by giants. 1.00

00:48:41.000 I'm a man surrounded by giants. 0.99

00:48:43.000 I'm, like, when people talk about, like, oh, the world's going to shit, or, you know, there's just bad people, I just... 0.99

00:48:52.000 You just come hang out with me for a day. 0.98

00:48:54.000 You should see the people I'm surrounded by.

00:48:56.000 Just, like, incredible people who would give their shirt off their back who were just awesome dads, awesome moms, just awesome people, you know, just really, really good people who do good things.

00:49:10.000 And I'm surrounded by them.

00:49:11.000 I'm so fortunate to be surrounded by such people.

00:49:14.000 Is this people that you know from the fire department?

00:49:16.000 Fire department, I mean, just in every day, right?

00:49:18.000 I mean, you know, look, I mean, I get to Tim Kennedy, right?

00:49:22.000 I mean, just you talk about a guy that loves, you know, you talk about a guy that just wants to help people.

00:49:27.000 I mean, that dude's always trying to make something better.

00:49:30.000 Yeah, he's an amazing person.

00:49:31.000 But yeah, people in the fire department, people just at my gym, right?

00:49:35.000 You know, people coming to the gym and coming in there at 5 a.m.

00:49:39.000 every morning and working out and just trying to be better.

00:49:43.000 Those people are real.

00:49:44.000 There are people like that.

00:49:45.000 They're everywhere.

00:49:46.000 Yeah, they are.

00:49:47.000 There's just not that many of them in terms of like comparison to the regular people.

00:49:50.000 But you have to be one of them for them to come hang around you.

00:49:53.000 Yes.

00:49:54.000 Good people don't hang out with bad people.

00:49:57.000 That's true.

00:49:58.000 Yeah, that's true and also one of the ways that a person becomes a good person is being around a person like that and then realizing that like wow the effect that person has on me in terms of like the inspiration they provide me in terms of like the way you can see a person behave and how much admiration you have for them and you like you change your behavior patterns to be more like them people If your friends are all gross,

00:50:26.000 you're probably going to be gross too. 0.93

00:50:28.000 If your friends are all stealing money and just lying and being assholes all the time, it's like, man, you don't have a lot to shoot for. 1.00

00:50:36.000 Not high bar. 0.99

00:50:38.000 Nobody's ever.

00:50:38.000 It's kind of like in jujitsu, right?

00:50:40.000 If you just roll with the same group, you're never going to be better than...

00:50:46.000 You can only go so far, advance so far, right?

00:50:49.000 It's the same thing in your environment, right?

00:50:52.000 If you, you're only gonna be as good as the best, that's the most you could be, is the best person around you.

00:51:01.000 I wonder.

00:51:03.000 I mean, it depends on what you're reading, what you're trying to do.

00:51:06.000 I mean, people are pretty flexible.

00:51:08.000 You could do a lot, but it's very important to at least make the best attempt to be around powerful people.

00:51:16.000 And if you can do that, and the best way to do that is, yeah, what you're talking about.

00:51:21.000 Be around people at the gym.

00:51:23.000 Be around people that either do jiu-jitsu or something else that's difficult.

00:51:27.000 Be around firefighters.

00:51:28.000 Be around people that are Trying to help people all the time, EMTs, people that are first responders that are working to try to help people on a daily basis.

00:51:39.000 Or people who are good parents, or people who are good husbands, and people who are good wives, right?

00:51:44.000 All of it, all of it matters.

00:51:45.000 And that's how I judge, I don't say I judge people, but I evaluate people.

00:51:51.000 The people who are around me, the people I invest my time in.

00:51:54.000 If you've got money in stocks, do you just say, I don't care what it is.

00:51:59.000 I don't care how it's doing.

00:51:59.000 I don't care what it's going to do, right?

00:52:01.000 No, you don't because it's your money.

00:52:02.000 You'll lose there, right?

00:52:03.000 And I feel the same way as with my time.

00:52:06.000 My time is equity.

00:52:07.000 You have emotional equity.

00:52:08.000 You have time that's equity.

00:52:10.000 And I'm going to invest it in people That are making me better.

00:52:15.000 That are helping me in some way.

00:52:17.000 Not helping me, but making me a better person.

00:52:22.000 It's a simple formula for me.

00:52:25.000 If you're not somebody that if I die today that I want my daughters to be around, I don't need you around me.

00:52:34.000 That's a good way to look at it.

00:52:36.000 Yeah.

00:52:37.000 And if you can do that, you can eliminate a lot of problems in your life with people that are just...

00:52:42.000 It's unfortunate because I do want people to do better in life, but there's certain people that you just got to cut them loose.

00:52:48.000 They just, wherever they are at this moment, they're too far away from where you need them to be.

00:52:54.000 And if you hang out with them, they're just going to keep creating problems.

00:52:57.000 One of the ones that drives me the most nuts is people that create constant problems and then they get like this sort of emotional charge out of resolving the problems.

00:53:09.000 So they create a problem and then they resolve the problem and then they get addicted to that sort of seesaw thing where they're always like in a squabble with someone and then, you know, I'm sorry and everybody makes up.

00:53:25.000 We're good now?

00:53:26.000 Yeah, we're good now.

00:53:27.000 And then, you know, they'll find another one to be involved in.

00:53:30.000 It's chaos.

00:53:30.000 Yeah.

00:53:30.000 They're just constant chaos, right?

00:53:33.000 It's people that are just...

00:53:35.000 Not only are they not at peace, but they're nowhere even near the road.

00:53:38.000 You know, you're not on the road to peace.

00:53:40.000 You're on the road to occasional reconciliation with people.

00:53:44.000 And a lot of people get into those relationships with, you know, boyfriends and girlfriends like that.

00:53:50.000 They get into these things where they fight.

00:53:52.000 They argue with each other and then they make up and they get addicted to the making up part.

00:53:57.000 But don't you think that becomes normal?

00:54:01.000 Sometimes you get in that and it becomes a normal thing.

00:54:05.000 So this becomes the norm.

00:54:07.000 In a relationship, you know, nobody starts off by beating each other, right? 1.00

00:54:12.000 Like, it starts off by saying, you know, like, fuck you, right? 1.00

00:54:18.000 And then it, well, that becomes normal, right? 0.99

00:54:20.000 And then every time the bar's pushed a little bit further, a little bit further, and the next thing you know, it's just, it's toxic, and it's just bad, and it's like, you know, we just lose respect for each other, and it happens.

00:54:31.000 I mean, it can happen so fast if you don't pay attention.

00:54:34.000 It can.

00:54:37.000 For a guy, that's horrible.

00:54:39.000 But for a woman, it's worse. 0.82

00:54:41.000 Because a woman has to worry physically about her safety from a guy. 1.00

00:54:48.000 You have daughters, as do I, and that's one of the scariest thoughts is that someone's going to fuck your daughter up and beat them up or do something terrible to them. 0.99

00:54:59.000 It's like the fact that men are capable of that is just such a horrific, Aspect of life, you know, because most people aren't capable of that. 0.99

00:55:10.000 Most people would never do that.

00:55:12.000 But the people that would do that, they're real.

00:55:15.000 They're out there, you know?

00:55:17.000 And how do you prep them for it? 1.00

00:55:19.000 That's a good fucking question. 0.99

00:55:21.000 How do you? 0.99

00:55:22.000 I think one way is by setting an example.

00:55:26.000 The way you treat people, that's what they're going to expect from other people.

00:55:30.000 The way you treat your wife, the way you treat the people that are around you, they're going to expect that. 0.85

00:55:36.000 Because that's what they're accustomed to. 0.99

00:55:40.000 If you're hanging out with shitty people and they see you doing that, they're going to hang out with shitty people, right? 0.99

00:55:44.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:55:44.000 And that's why I go back to my circle, right? 0.99

00:55:47.000 My circle is, it's literally everything.

00:55:50.000 And, you know, like, with my daughters, look, I'll be the longest person they'll ever date.

00:55:58.000 I'll be the longest man they'll date.

00:56:00.000 And how I treat them is what they're going to think is, like, they're going to measure everybody to me.

00:56:08.000 Mm-hmm. 0.94

00:56:09.000 And so if they start dating shitty guys down the road, I should probably look in the mirror. 0.94

00:56:14.000 And my example that I set to them is... 0.80

00:56:18.000 And not just that I'm good to my daughters and that I'm respectful to women, but that I work hard and that I serve the community and that I continue to try to better myself and I accept responsibility for my actions and all these things.

00:56:36.000 Like, they're watching everything and that is...

00:56:38.000 It's going to program them to someday, like, you know, we automatically, as parents, we automatically have, whatever you want to call it, like street cred with our children.

00:56:50.000 And that's how they learn to handle problems, and that's how they handle, you know, relationships and things like that.

00:56:57.000 And it's just so important that, you know, my daughters are my accountability factor.

00:57:02.000 Like, I look at it, and it's like, I try to treat people the way that I would want someone to treat my daughters.

00:57:09.000 Now when you talk about that Ibogaine experience about how it bothered you that, you know, you had to think about all these times we disappointed people or all the people that were upset at you.

00:57:19.000 What about that was, what was so frustrating about that? 0.84

00:57:23.000 Was it that you had already gotten through that and put it aside and now it's like rehashing it and just making you feel like shit or was it just that you were confronted with reality? 0.96

00:57:33.000 I mean I didn't like it. 0.94

00:57:35.000 I think it's just like There's just some people that, I mean, you're not gonna, you're never gonna be good enough for.

00:57:43.000 Right.

00:57:44.000 You know, and it doesn't, it's not necessarily you.

00:57:46.000 I mean...

00:57:47.000 Sometimes it is.

00:57:49.000 Well, I mean...

00:57:50.000 Yeah, but sometimes it's just them.

00:57:51.000 Again, sometimes it's just them, right? 0.98

00:57:53.000 And, but I didn't see the people, I didn't see the people, not the people I fucked over. 0.98

00:58:01.000 I didn't see them. 0.91

00:58:02.000 You know, I seen, like, I've seen people, like family members, that You're like, well, you know, why was it like this for me?

00:58:15.000 Right?

00:58:16.000 And, you know, that was, you know, that was an aspect of, look, just let it go.

00:58:26.000 Like, you know, that's kind of what, all the stuff I've seen with Ibogaine was kind of like, just let it go.

00:58:31.000 Just let it go.

00:58:32.000 Right?

00:58:32.000 It wasn't, it wasn't, I didn't see the things that, like, I didn't see anything about combat.

00:58:37.000 I didn't see I didn't see anything like that.

00:58:40.000 I just seen the things that I let control me that I couldn't control.

00:58:44.000 The way I've heard it described is that it's ruthlessly introspective.

00:58:51.000 It makes you see things that maybe you've been avoiding thinking about.

00:58:55.000 Yeah, I mean look we all know if we all sit down and we truly want to see it we all kind of know Why we are the way we are everything adds up, right?

00:59:04.000 Like it's just like we don't want to We don't want to face it And Ibogaine makes you face it like you're gonna sit there And it's gonna keep you there until you've seen enough of it.

00:59:17.000 You know, are you hallucinating while you're doing this?

00:59:20.000 I mean, I mean it is like I'm really there but I mean I can open my eyes and In stand-up, I mean, the world's spinning, but, you know, like...

00:59:30.000 But when you close your eyes, it's like you're there.

00:59:33.000 So it's like you're rehashing memories, or like, is that what it is?

00:59:39.000 It's real, like...

00:59:42.000 I liked it because the people that I seen, like obviously I wasn't walking through a city, but the people that I seen were real.

00:59:50.000 The moments that I was watching myself, like how I talked to people, like there was a piece of that, right?

00:59:58.000 It was real moments.

00:59:59.000 It was like I was sitting in a stadium watching myself from a different point of view.

01:00:06.000 Does that make sense?

01:00:07.000 Yeah.

01:00:07.000 And it was real.

01:00:10.000 It was real.

01:00:11.000 It wasn't like I was seeing crazy alternate reality.

01:00:16.000 It was real.

01:00:17.000 It was real people.

01:00:18.000 It was real situations.

01:00:19.000 It was real things.

01:00:22.000 Now, was it a replica of what you'd experienced or was it Was it situations that never really occurred?

01:00:32.000 Well, I mean, obviously the walking onto the stage was not, you know, obviously all these people weren't in one room, but their faces were real.

01:00:42.000 They were real people in my life.

01:00:43.000 They were real people.

01:00:45.000 So, I mean, obviously there was like a balance to it, but it was like all of it made sense, if that makes sense.

01:00:50.000 Like every bit of it, like I knew what it was telling me.

01:00:54.000 So it's like you walked onto a stage and then the audience was all filled with people that you've had conflicts with?

01:00:59.000 Or just like people that I don't feel like, you know, people I feel like I've...

01:01:03.000 That you let down?

01:01:05.000 You know, that make me feel like I let them down when I don't think...

01:01:09.000 And when I look at it logically, I didn't.

01:01:13.000 You know what I mean?

01:01:16.000 And there was just, you know, there was a lot of that.

01:01:20.000 And so, you get out of that, you do DMT. Yeah, the next day.

01:01:25.000 You put it all together because of those two experiences.

01:01:28.000 Yeah.

01:01:28.000 And then, what is life like right after that?

01:01:31.000 You know, before...

01:01:32.000 So, before I went down there, I mean, I was having an anxiety attack a week.

01:01:37.000 And what does that mean?

01:01:38.000 Like, what happens during your anxiety attacks?

01:01:41.000 You know, like, I'll wake up throwing up.

01:01:44.000 Like, I'd be in the floor, like, throwing up, crying.

01:01:48.000 Just...

01:01:51.000 Just, like, can't control it.

01:01:53.000 And when you say anxiety, like, what are you thinking?

01:01:58.000 You know, just how much of a failure I am.

01:02:01.000 Really?

01:02:02.000 That's what it was?

01:02:03.000 Yeah.

01:02:04.000 A failure.

01:02:04.000 Mm-hmm.

01:02:06.000 Yeah.

01:02:07.000 Yeah, I mean, that's probably...

01:02:08.000 And look, I'm not going to say those thoughts go away. 1.00

01:02:11.000 You know, like, while I'm on that truck, while I was on that truck the other day, all I was telling myself was just, like, you know, I can remember it vividly of, you're a piece of shit. 1.00

01:02:23.000 Look, this is you. 1.00

01:02:24.000 Like, you didn't bring the window punch with you.

01:02:27.000 How could you mess up so bad? 0.97

01:02:28.000 Now this guy's going to die because of you. 1.00

01:02:30.000 And then I'm watching my friends swim out there, and I'm just thinking to myself, like, oh, look at you, you're an idiot, and now you've brought them in here, and now they're gonna drown, and you're gonna get your friends killed. 1.00

01:02:38.000 And then, you know, I mean, like, it was just, like, the whole time, I'm literally, like, my brain is just talking shit to me. 1.00

01:02:44.000 Of, like... 0.98

01:02:45.000 Yeah, you know what?

01:02:46.000 Like, you're not gonna be able to get this guy out now because you didn't train hard enough, right?

01:02:52.000 Like, it's just like all these things, like, just beating it, right?

01:02:57.000 And I don't know why it works that way, right?

01:03:00.000 But it works for me a lot, too, though.

01:03:04.000 When you were growing up, did you have parents that were very critical of you?

01:03:10.000 Um...

01:03:14.000 You know, I mean, like, there was accountability.

01:03:17.000 Everything was black and white, right?

01:03:18.000 Like, everything was accountability, right?

01:03:21.000 You know, I mean, look, my dad, my grandpa, I mean, I grew up with my mom until I was, like, 10. And then I went over to my dad.

01:03:28.000 And, you know, my dad, my dad's one of the, my dad and my grandfather and my grandmother, like, they're just, they're the greatest people I've ever met.

01:03:36.000 And if I can be half of them, I'll be somebody.

01:03:39.000 But it was just like, it was more of a, there's right and wrong.

01:03:43.000 There's, you know.

01:03:44.000 But was there a thing back then about you not being good enough?

01:03:49.000 No.

01:03:50.000 Nothing?

01:03:50.000 No.

01:03:51.000 Nothing.

01:03:51.000 So why do you have that thought in your head now, do you think?

01:03:54.000 Like, why do you...

01:03:56.000 Because I couldn't save my team.

01:03:59.000 You know, like...

01:04:02.000 So is that when it started?

01:04:05.000 Yeah.

01:04:06.000 Yeah.

01:04:07.000 I mean...

01:04:08.000 You know, and then the medal just made it worse.

01:04:12.000 And for people who don't know what you're talking about, we had a long conversation about this on the first podcast that we did together, and it's a harrowing story. 0.98

01:04:22.000 I mean, it's wild shit what you went through. 0.79

01:04:27.000 And I would just tell people, just, you know, go listen to that so you don't have to say it again. 0.99

01:04:33.000 Yeah, but that's where it comes from.

01:04:35.000 You know, like, you know, I... Don't know like I when I walked in that valley that day like I truly thought that how I was I thought I was good at something, right?

01:04:48.000 I mean I put the work in and like I thought I was good and and you know I I Really thought that I don't know.

01:04:56.000 I mean obviously it shows my naiveness But I just I never thought that there would be a situation that I couldn't get my teammates out of right and I thought that if anybody was ever gonna get killed it was gonna be me and Yeah, just like Just,

01:05:13.000 like, wanting to help them and bring them home alive so bad and then just getting in there and they're all dead.

01:05:24.000 And so it was just like, I just felt like I let them down, right?

01:05:29.000 Like, I just felt like I let them down, you know?

01:05:32.000 And so, and then you come back home and then you get this Medal of Honor.

01:05:39.000 So, like, it's just, it's such a...

01:05:40.000 It's such a mental, you know, mental jujitsu with myself of, I got a medal for failing.

01:05:50.000 You know, and people are like, oh, you know, but you did so much good.

01:05:54.000 Well, it's like, that's not what I set out to do when I went there.

01:05:56.000 I set out to go get my teammates out.

01:05:59.000 And so, like, you know, people, I think, I feel like a lot of times people want to change the narrative because they don't like the way it feels.

01:06:06.000 Right.

01:06:07.000 And I'll never do that because the lesson that I learned from that and the emotions that I get from facing the true results of that day push me to the next level to be able to go out and help people today. 0.98

01:06:25.000 So that time of your life, that was responsible for all of the, whether you would call it self-doubt or self-judgment, like the nasty voice in your head that says you're a loser. 0.97

01:06:40.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:06:41.000 I mean, I would say that that's it, right?

01:06:42.000 But even after the Ibogaine and even after the DMT, you still have that voice because this was just last week.

01:06:48.000 But it doesn't...

01:06:49.000 But the difference is it doesn't control me.

01:06:52.000 Like, I recognize it.

01:06:53.000 You know what it is when it's happening.

01:06:54.000 I know what it is when it's happening.

01:06:56.000 And a lot of times I use it to my advantage.

01:07:02.000 You know?

01:07:02.000 Like, I use it to my advantage to give me the edge to push on.

01:07:09.000 Yeah.

01:07:10.000 And I think it helps me.

01:07:12.000 I just think that now I can control it.

01:07:15.000 Do you know what I mean?

01:07:16.000 So you know what it is, but you...

01:07:18.000 Because you're experiencing it, but you know what it is, so you can stop it before it takes over.

01:07:25.000 Instead of allowing it to just overwhelm you.

01:07:27.000 Yeah, I mean, like I... At the end of the day, like I know... 0.99

01:07:34.000 Look, I know I'm not a piece of shit. 0.97

01:07:36.000 I know that I'm a good person. 0.99

01:07:41.000 My mind doesn't control...

01:07:43.000 When it's doing this, it doesn't make me believe it.

01:07:47.000 And I think that Ibogaine gave me that by offloading.

01:07:54.000 Kind of the stuff that doesn't matter.

01:07:56.000 When you get emotional, you start focusing on all these things, and it's like, now I can control that to get back to the logical.

01:08:03.000 Like, okay, let's look at logic.

01:08:05.000 You know what I mean?

01:08:07.000 And just trying to keep that as a balance.

01:08:08.000 But I don't ever want to lose that.

01:08:10.000 I don't ever want to lose the...

01:08:13.000 That voice.

01:08:14.000 Because that voice is what drives me to push hard, right?

01:08:21.000 I don't ever want to lose that.

01:08:25.000 Right.

01:08:26.000 So that voice, the critical voice, is the thing you think you need to push yourself?

01:08:34.000 For me, it's what helps me.

01:08:38.000 Yeah.

01:08:38.000 I mean, obviously it doesn't sound very healthy, does it?

01:08:41.000 It doesn't.

01:08:42.000 I'm like, I'm wondering if there's other... 1.00

01:08:45.000 I kind of have a similar thing going on in my head, but I don't ever let it get to the point where I'm saying, you're a loser, you fucked up, you fucking idiot. 1.00

01:08:57.000 I don't have that kind of internal dialogue. 1.00

01:09:00.000 But I do recognize that I have to manage my mind.

01:09:05.000 I can't allow those kind of thought patterns to spiral in my head.

01:09:12.000 I don't let them go anywhere.

01:09:14.000 Yeah, I mean...

01:09:15.000 I think we all get those, you know, those feelings.

01:09:18.000 For sure, right?

01:09:18.000 I mean, I think we do, and I think that, like, you know, would I need those if I wasn't going to continue to put myself in these critical moments?

01:09:33.000 Probably not, right?

01:09:35.000 Like, you know, it's kind of like whenever I was a Marine, right?

01:09:42.000 To do what people like Tim Kennedy, to do what people like Jocko, you can't beat evil people unless you can be evil.

01:09:54.000 Do you know what I mean?

01:09:55.000 If you're not willing to...

01:09:58.000 And I'm not saying either one of those are evil, so let me say that back.

01:10:00.000 But for me, in my mindset, like...

01:10:03.000 For me to be able to, when you fight, whether it's in a ring, whether it's with a gun, it really comes down to who's willing to give it all.

01:10:20.000 I mean, obviously training comes into it, but if you don't get in the ring, you ain't going to fight.

01:10:26.000 If you're not willing to go get evil with somebody and take their life, You know what I mean?

01:10:32.000 You're not coming home.

01:10:33.000 You're not coming home.

01:10:34.000 And so it's like, what level are you willing to get at?

01:10:37.000 Well, the crazy thing to me has always been that then you ask those people to just rejoin society.

01:10:45.000 And I don't know how much, like, again, I don't know how much counseling they give you or how much counseling would you, how much do they give you?

01:10:52.000 And the ball's in the military?

01:10:53.000 When you're leaving.

01:10:56.000 I mean, so I was fortunate because I got sent home from Afghanistan. 1.00

01:11:00.000 I went to this rehab center for like eight weeks.

01:11:08.000 It didn't make any sense to me at the time because I think it was too close to the event.

01:11:12.000 What is the rehab center?

01:11:14.000 It was cognitive CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy, I think.

01:11:19.000 So basically, like, where you try to reprogram the way you think about things.

01:11:25.000 Or like, okay, so I, you know, I feel like I was a failure.

01:11:31.000 And then you write it out.

01:11:33.000 I mean, it was like this therapy that, it was tough, right?

01:11:37.000 And, um...

01:11:39.000 So I went to that.

01:11:40.000 But that was like, I had this amazing, and I talk about her in the book, Captain Katie Kopp.

01:11:45.000 She was on the combat stress team.

01:11:48.000 And so when I was in Afghanistan, when there was a critical incident like this, they would fly in these psychologists.

01:12:00.000 And they would try to get on top of it pretty quick, right?

01:12:05.000 To be there to help and all this.

01:12:08.000 She did so amazing.

01:12:10.000 Obviously, I didn't want to talk to her while I was there.

01:12:13.000 So she ended up sending me home from Afghanistan in December.

01:12:18.000 I got home December 5th.

01:12:21.000 But she, like, worked out this arrangement to where I could, instead of just going back to base, I came straight home because the deployment was still going on.

01:12:29.000 And I went to this CBT thing.

01:12:31.000 But, I mean, you're not really taught about counseling.

01:12:33.000 You're not really, like...

01:12:34.000 You know, you're just not...

01:12:36.000 And the last thing you want to do is, like, feel like you're weak.

01:12:42.000 Right.

01:12:42.000 Right?

01:12:43.000 Like, feel like you can't handle it.

01:12:46.000 Because it's your job.

01:12:47.000 You know?

01:12:48.000 It's like this thing, like...

01:12:50.000 You know, nobody, I mean, I wouldn't say anybody judges you because look, we're all, we're all suffering and we want people to get help.

01:12:57.000 But just like one of these deals, like, you know, you don't want to, you don't want to be like, oh yeah, that bothers me.

01:13:03.000 Yeah.

01:13:04.000 Yeah, the problem with strong people, right?

01:13:07.000 They don't want to ask for help.

01:13:09.000 And I just don't want to be an inconvenience.

01:13:10.000 Right.

01:13:11.000 That's another thing with strong people.

01:13:14.000 So, this shift that happened after you do the Ibogaine and then you do the DMT, like, what's before and what's after?

01:13:22.000 Like, what is the difference?

01:13:24.000 You know, afterwards, I mean, I didn't have anxiety.

01:13:28.000 So, no more anxiety attacks.

01:13:30.000 That's still the same way?

01:13:32.000 Yeah.

01:13:32.000 How long ago was this?

01:13:34.000 Two years ago?

01:13:35.000 Two years ago.

01:13:35.000 So two years ago, it knocks it completely out of your system.

01:13:38.000 Yeah.

01:13:38.000 Wow.

01:13:39.000 Yeah, I mean, like, I feel great.

01:13:42.000 Like, I'm more present.

01:13:47.000 Yeah, I mean, like, I can be who I want to be.

01:13:50.000 You know what I mean?

01:13:50.000 Like, it's kind of awesome.

01:13:53.000 Like, I get to...

01:13:54.000 It's so good.

01:13:56.000 It's, like, so good.

01:13:57.000 Like, I wake up every day and, I mean, I'm not going to say every day is the best day of my life, but every day, like, there's a moment that I just look around and I'm just like, how awesome is this, right?

01:14:08.000 Like, I can literally look at my friends and just, you know, I mean, I'll start tearing up just thinking about, like, how awesome it is that I get to be surrounded by such great people.

01:14:18.000 I mean, I'm sitting here with you right now.

01:14:21.000 You know what I mean?

01:14:22.000 Like, how awesome is that?

01:14:25.000 You know, it's like, I don't deserve any of this, but I get to do this.

01:14:31.000 But who does deserve it, then, if you don't?

01:14:34.000 I mean, when people think like that, I'm always like, of course you deserve it.

01:14:37.000 Well, I mean, I don't think anybody deserves anything.

01:14:39.000 I think we're worthy of things.

01:14:41.000 Yes.

01:14:42.000 But it's also like that thought, like you don't deserve it means it shouldn't be happening to you.

01:14:46.000 Yeah.

01:14:47.000 It's not just simply you don't deserve it.

01:14:50.000 It's you don't deserve it, so it shouldn't be happening.

01:14:52.000 But like, what does that mean?

01:14:53.000 It's happening.

01:14:54.000 Well, yeah.

01:14:55.000 I don't understand that kind of thinking.

01:14:57.000 Well, why do I deserve your time?

01:15:01.000 Why do I deserve your time?

01:15:02.000 Well...

01:15:03.000 I mean, I think it's a question that's called mutual respect.

01:15:08.000 Well, it's also just life.

01:15:10.000 You know, I think sometimes people complicate their thought process with unnecessary paths.

01:15:15.000 They just go down these, like, you're not going to get anything out of that.

01:15:19.000 The, why do I deserve this path?

01:15:21.000 There's nothing there for you.

01:15:22.000 But that's a natural path.

01:15:25.000 Yes.

01:15:26.000 And that's what I'm saying is, is that's a natural path that automatically Comes in and instead of well riding that path that we know there's no logic to or good into It's like I get to do this.

01:15:38.000 How badass is this?

01:15:39.000 That's a great way to look at it.

01:15:40.000 And so like yeah, that's the control we have We don't have control of what happens to us most of the time, right?

01:15:47.000 But we do have a control on how we look at it Do you talk in this book about your ibogaine and DMT experience you do how do I talk about it?

01:15:54.000 Is it one of the main factors of this idea of the way forward?

01:16:04.000 It's just one of them, right?

01:16:06.000 We talk about the circle. 0.99

01:16:08.000 Last time we talked about killing that guy with a rock. 1.00

01:16:13.000 That's a fucked up thing to say casually. 1.00

01:16:17.000 You know that story I had about killing that dude with a rock. 0.99

01:16:20.000 Oh, you have that one.

01:16:21.000 But I talk about how much that guy did for me and how much he changed my life, which is really cool.

01:16:27.000 And the more I think about it, how much more he still changes my life today.

01:16:33.000 And not in a bad way, but in a good way.

01:16:35.000 And we talk about that.

01:16:39.000 How does it change your life in a good way?

01:16:41.000 I think it's what gives me empathy.

01:16:45.000 You know, it gives me...

01:16:48.000 It shows me that if I can connect with that guy, I can connect with anybody.

01:16:53.000 We all have more things that we're related on than we do that we're not.

01:16:59.000 And it's a choice on which side you choose to pick, right?

01:17:05.000 There's only a few things that you can do to me that we're not going to be able to get along about.

01:17:14.000 You want to mess with my family, you want to mess with people I care about, it's a whole different ballgame.

01:17:20.000 But outside that, I don't care what you do, I don't care what you believe.

01:17:24.000 Are you a good person or are you not?

01:17:26.000 It's good or bad, what's your intent?

01:17:29.000 That guy, I don't know, I was so arrogant coming into that day and Him almost killing me.

01:17:37.000 But then just seeing, watching him die at my hands and just not, I don't want to say I'm not, I didn't like, I don't want to say that I didn't know why I was killing him because he was going to kill me,

01:17:56.000 but There was just like the reality of like, somebody's like, it's not one-sided, right?

01:18:06.000 Like, the same way that people were going to be hurt if I died, there were people that were going to be hurt if he died.

01:18:16.000 And...

01:18:19.000 And I think with that, it's like trying to be able to see it from somebody else's side is a huge, huge tool.

01:18:27.000 Trying to see somebody else from their view is a really, really critical tool before we get all wrapped up in how we're going to handle things.

01:18:43.000 Yeah, that's a...

01:18:57.000 It's hard sometimes for people to look at other human beings And try to imagine what's going on in their head and how they view you and how they view whatever conflict you're too engaged in, the two of you are engaged in.

01:19:14.000 It's a good exercise and it's also good for empathy.

01:19:19.000 It's good to kind of get a sense of How you should communicate with that person.

01:19:26.000 Think about what it's like to be them.

01:19:28.000 Try to put yourself in that position.

01:19:31.000 And for a lot of people, that's very hard to do.

01:19:34.000 Yeah.

01:19:35.000 Yeah, because...

01:19:37.000 When you do that, you have to also check yourself.

01:19:40.000 Mm-hmm.

01:19:59.000 I don't want to miss on getting to know somebody or having a bad-ass relationship or being able to meet somebody or them be my friend.

01:20:06.000 I'm not ever going to let the fear of what they might do to me or how it might affect me keep me from doing that.

01:20:14.000 Because I know that I can recover.

01:20:20.000 I don't know.

01:20:21.000 People are great.

01:20:23.000 Most people are good.

01:20:24.000 I believe most people are good.

01:20:25.000 Especially if you catch them on the right day, under the right circumstances, and you interact with them the right way.

01:20:31.000 But even if you catch them on the wrong day, how much of an influence could you have on them, right?

01:20:34.000 By being the person that comes up and says, Hey, I... You know, how's your day, right?

01:20:41.000 Like just anything, just a little bit of empathy goes a long ways.

01:20:44.000 Yeah, no, it definitely does.

01:20:46.000 So when you wrote this book, so you wrote it with this guy Robert O'Neill.

01:20:51.000 Who's this gentleman?

01:20:53.000 So Rob killed bin Laden.

01:20:55.000 Oh.

01:20:56.000 And, you know, what brought us together, the main story, and he can tell this, was I talked about killing that guy.

01:21:07.000 We speak together.

01:21:09.000 And Rob talked about how, you know, right after he shot Bin Laden, he immediately went over to Bin Laden's kids. 0.67

01:21:21.000 And he was like, I just took out the guy who seems the most evil to us, and now I just became the most evil person to them.

01:21:34.000 Oof.

01:21:36.000 And...

01:21:40.000 It's not.

01:21:41.000 It ain't simple.

01:21:42.000 Right.

01:21:43.000 It's not simple.

01:21:45.000 Taking a man's life in front of his family cannot be simple.

01:21:49.000 No.

01:21:51.000 No.

01:21:52.000 I mean, yeah.

01:21:54.000 So, you know, that was kind of what brought us together, and we're just like, how can we help people?

01:21:58.000 How can we show our stories?

01:22:00.000 You know, because I feel like these books, like you talk about End of the Fire, you know, I'll talk about my book.

01:22:06.000 I feel like it made us, like, not human, like, larger than life.

01:22:09.000 I'm no different than you.

01:22:11.000 What do you mean by that?

01:22:12.000 Just like, it tells a story in a way that people are like, I can never imagine doing that.

01:22:17.000 You know, like, I could never, well, gosh, I would never be able to do that.

01:22:22.000 I could never imagine being there or doing that, right?

01:22:25.000 And it's like, I mean, well, I mean, I couldn't have either before I was there.

01:22:32.000 And so I just felt like I'm no different than anybody else.

01:22:38.000 I was there.

01:22:40.000 I went over.

01:22:41.000 I was there.

01:22:43.000 Everybody makes different choices in life.

01:22:47.000 How could we take our experiences and try to help people see that there's a way forward.

01:22:51.000 There's hope that people are good.

01:22:57.000 Take from the hard lessons that's held us back or that we've had to be in and try to turn that into something good.

01:23:04.000 So when you set out to write this book, did you get in touch with Robert?

01:23:09.000 Did you guys did you both have like the same kind of vision as to what to do here?

01:23:13.000 Yeah, I mean we yeah, I mean we we just we wanted to have principles that are simple and and we wanted to Come together and talk more like not just about war but about everyday life everyday struggles that we have and kind of humanize and You know,

01:23:32.000 humanize war, right?

01:23:35.000 Not humanize war, but humanize life and humanize us and kind of show that, look, the same concepts that made us successful in combat are the same.

01:23:43.000 It is literally the same principles that you just apply in all situations.

01:23:50.000 So do you feel like the first book, when you're talking about it being larger than life, that you're missing your own internal struggles and dialogues?

01:24:02.000 What is it about it that didn't make you seem like a regular person to people?

01:24:07.000 I think it only told the majority of the good side.

01:24:11.000 It didn't tell that The aspect of, you know, I grew up in a small town.

01:24:26.000 I'm adopted.

01:24:28.000 There's all these factors of growing up, of the people who kind of shaped me to do that.

01:24:33.000 How did I get To the point that, you know, that I did what I did in that valley in that moment.

01:24:40.000 Well, it's all these people around me.

01:24:42.000 You know what I mean?

01:24:43.000 And still today, like, everything I'm successful at is because I'm surrounded by great people who push me and hold me accountable every day.

01:24:49.000 And, you know, this book talks about, you know, we're not meant to be alone.

01:24:54.000 You know, we're meant to live, be around people, and interact with people.

01:24:59.000 And, you know, this book kind of talks about how, you know, how People are everything and you know who you select to be around from all the way from who you select to be around from who you All that is what there's always a way forward There's always a way forward and when you can find hope it doesn't matter if you're in a valley in Afghanistan surrounded and you've just lost all your team or You're back here and you're getting divorced or whatever it is as long as there's hope and you've got good people around you You're gonna get through it like everybody

01:25:29.000 has a bad day And so when you decided to do this, how do you start a book like this?

01:25:36.000 What are the first words you write?

01:25:38.000 Are you writing this with a ghostwriter?

01:25:42.000 Ghostwriter.

01:25:43.000 I can't even spell my name.

01:25:44.000 Are you kidding me?

01:25:47.000 Well, that's why when you type, it gives you that little red squiggly line underneath it.

01:25:52.000 It lets you know you spelled it wrong.

01:25:53.000 It's handy.

01:25:55.000 So how do you start something like this?

01:25:58.000 Did you have an outline in your head of how to do it?

01:26:00.000 So we came up with an idea, and we just kind of talked about, you know, we wanted almost like a self-help book.

01:26:09.000 We wanted people to be able to read it and apply it to their lives, take the stories that we have.

01:26:17.000 We just got with, you know, people, agents, who helped us put that, kind of, like, write out this outline, and then we took it around to the publishers, right?

01:26:27.000 And the biggest thing, you know, me and Rob wanted with these publishers was, like, we didn't just want a book.

01:26:32.000 We wanted a book that was, like, we didn't want it to be left or right.

01:26:36.000 We didn't want it to be political.

01:26:37.000 We didn't want it to be, we wanted it to just be for, that anybody could pick up and read and apply it to their life.

01:26:45.000 Speaking of left or right, what percentage of people that are in the military are left-wing?

01:26:52.000 It was never a conversation.

01:26:54.000 Never?

01:26:55.000 Never.

01:26:56.000 So your concern is about staying alive, keeping your people alive, and whatever the mission, whatever task you have to do.

01:27:06.000 You know, when I went to fight, I... I wasn't willing to die or fight.

01:27:15.000 I wasn't fighting for Republicans.

01:27:17.000 I wasn't fighting for Democrats.

01:27:18.000 I didn't care what color you were. 0.91

01:27:20.000 I was fighting for Americans.

01:27:24.000 And all of that, no matter what God you pray to, no matter what your sexual preference is, none of that matters to me.

01:27:35.000 I feel like the America I was fighting for Was good.

01:27:42.000 Was good.

01:27:44.000 You know, that flag, to me, represents good.

01:27:47.000 People who love their country.

01:27:49.000 People who want...

01:27:50.000 Good.

01:27:52.000 And...

01:27:52.000 No, I wasn't fighting for Republicans or Democrats or any of that.

01:27:57.000 Of course not.

01:27:57.000 But what I'm saying is, how many people...

01:27:59.000 Did you guys...

01:28:00.000 You never had conversations about politics or anything?

01:28:03.000 No.

01:28:03.000 I can't ever remember one...

01:28:05.000 I can't remember one conversation of even thinking about that.

01:28:10.000 It never came up.

01:28:12.000 That's interesting.

01:28:13.000 Now, you know, Afghanistan was a big part of your life experiences.

01:28:22.000 Yeah.

01:28:23.000 And then when the troops pulled out, that whole chaotic disaster, like, what did that feel like to you?

01:28:33.000 I mean, it sucked, right?

01:28:35.000 Like...

01:28:36.000 But it's not like there's nobody who set foot over there that ever thought it was going to go any other way.

01:28:42.000 Really?

01:28:43.000 I didn't.

01:28:44.000 You thought like when we pull out, the Taliban is just going to take over and it's going to be chaos again.

01:28:49.000 I mean, what was our goal there?

01:28:50.000 Right.

01:28:51.000 Well, I mean, what did we, how did we expect to leave it?

01:28:54.000 Can anybody tell me that?

01:28:55.000 Right.

01:28:56.000 I mean, like I knew, we knew, I mean, I don't know.

01:29:00.000 Let me say this.

01:29:01.000 I'll speak for me, not everybody else.

01:29:02.000 I I never thought the Afghan military would be able to sustain itself and defend it, right?

01:29:09.000 When you heard them say that, though, what was that like, just hearing it?

01:29:11.000 Because a lot of people felt the same way that you're expressing yourself right now.

01:29:14.000 A lot of people felt that way, that there's no way they were going to be able to maintain it.

01:29:17.000 No chance.

01:29:18.000 So, I mean, how did I feel when it quit or when we left?

01:29:22.000 Well, how did you feel when they were trying to pretend like they would be able to do it? 0.99

01:29:26.000 I mean, it's all bullshit, right? 0.98

01:29:29.000 Like, the only people that win in these wars is Raytheon, General Dynamics. 0.99

01:29:35.000 I mean, they're the only ones that win at the end of the day. 1.00

01:29:40.000 That's so fucked up. 0.99

01:29:42.000 But people don't want to think about that, right? 0.99

01:29:44.000 Because it's like when you start thinking about that level fucked up, it's not.

01:29:50.000 I mean, you can't.

01:29:51.000 They don't like to think that way, and they definitely don't want to think that that's a motive, that those people benefiting and these corporations benefiting is a motive for doing certain things that cost lives.

01:30:02.000 I think we've seen that plenty.

01:30:05.000 When you see what's going on right now, because we are in the middle, as people who may listen to this in the future, we're in the middle of the Ukraine-Russia conflict.

01:30:15.000 It just started a few days ago, and everyone is kind of shocked.

01:30:22.000 I'm terrified by this prospect of a hot war going on, you know, inside the former Soviet Union with Russia invading Ukraine and we're watching it play out on television and it's a very terrifying time for a lot of people.

01:30:43.000 Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, it is terrifying.

01:30:48.000 This giant superpower that's trying to control more of its territory, what it used to be, its territory, former Soviet Union.

01:30:58.000 Is it, though, like, I mean, let's, again, I hate Russia, so let's get that off the table. 0.74

01:31:07.000 But what would we do?

01:31:09.000 If China came in and China was teaming up with Mexico and they were operating out of Mexico.

01:31:20.000 What would we do?

01:31:22.000 That's a good point.

01:31:23.000 You know what we would do.

01:31:26.000 And again, I don't know what to believe. 0.94

01:31:30.000 Because, look, first off, Putin's evil.

01:31:34.000 Like, nobody's arguing that.

01:31:36.000 But, you know, Ukraine, I mean, their government's not known for being honest abes.

01:31:46.000 They're one of the most corrupt governments there are. 0.97

01:31:50.000 And it's like, you know, we're hypocritical. 0.99

01:32:01.000 And again... 0.91

01:32:04.000 I see what you're saying.

01:32:05.000 You're not saying that Russia's good and Ukraine's evil.

01:32:12.000 You're saying it's messy.

01:32:14.000 I'm just saying that if we were Putin, obviously the way he's handling it, but again, we don't even know that.

01:32:22.000 How many civilians are being killed?

01:32:24.000 I think the death count right now is in the 300s.

01:32:29.000 More than 300 people have died, right?

01:32:32.000 And so, I mean, why do they still have Wi-Fi, Internet?

01:32:35.000 Why are their lights still on?

01:32:36.000 Well, that's a good question, but I think one of the things that's going on with Wi-Fi is I think Elon Musk has chipped in to use the satellites.

01:32:45.000 But again, I mean, again, I don't know what's going on.

01:32:47.000 I don't know what to believe.

01:32:48.000 You know, you hear these stories that inspire you to think that, oh, you know, these people on this island, on that island, like, you know, they gave their life and there's this...

01:32:57.000 And it's like, well, now they're alive, supposedly.

01:33:00.000 Who knows what's really happening?

01:33:01.000 You see that tank that just veered off and ran over that car, and it's like, then you hear that that was a Ukrainian tank.

01:33:09.000 You know what I mean?

01:33:10.000 I think that's not true, though.

01:33:12.000 I think that was a Russian tank, right?

01:33:15.000 I haven't heard any.

01:33:17.000 I see what you're saying.

01:33:18.000 There's so much misinformation online.

01:33:20.000 There's so much misinformation online. 0.99

01:33:22.000 Yeah, the island was a big one that they told Russia to go fuck himself and that they killed everybody on the island. 0.98

01:33:28.000 But it turns out, no, they've actually been captured. 0.97

01:33:30.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:33:31.000 And so it's like, I think they're both fucked up, right? 0.99

01:33:37.000 And so it's like, I don't know what to do with it. 0.99

01:33:40.000 My part is, at the end of the day, Russia is killing innocent civilians who have nothing to do with this are losing their lives.

01:33:49.000 Yeah.

01:33:50.000 Jamie, I'm going to send you something just so that you could have this too.

01:33:54.000 There is a very good video that's online that explains the conflict.

01:34:03.000 And, you know, it's not a judgmental video.

01:34:07.000 It's not casting the blame one way or another, but it's a...

01:34:11.000 A YouTube video that explains, I think we talked about it a little bit yesterday, but it explains how this conflict got started and why Russia, for like logistic reasons, why it wants to control...

01:34:28.000 I'll just say that to you, buddy.

01:34:30.000 But we're gonna put all these sanctions on them, right?

01:34:32.000 But why are we still buying oil from them?

01:34:34.000 Yeah, that's the thing.

01:34:35.000 Like, everybody's pouring Russian vodka down the toilet.

01:34:39.000 But we're still buying over half a million barrels a day from them.

01:34:42.000 That is so wild.

01:34:43.000 Right?

01:34:44.000 Like, if you told that to people, they would go, what?

01:34:48.000 And when you add that up, you know, I mean, Putin's making...

01:34:53.000 I mean, he's...

01:34:54.000 So this is the video.

01:34:56.000 It's long.

01:34:57.000 Yeah, just play a little bit of it at the beginning because it shows you the map of where Crimea is and Ukraine and that if they join NATO, like they're trying to join the EU right now, if they join NATO......conflict series that explains the entire course of the 2008 Russian invasion of Georgia.

01:35:19.000 It's called Why Russia is Invading Ukraine.

01:35:22.000 Why Russia is Invading Ukraine is available on YouTube and it's very good.

01:35:27.000 Well, we don't have to listen to it.

01:35:58.000 You know, this sort of natural resource rich country, they could become like a huge economic power and sort of separate from Russia and separate from We're good to 0.99

01:36:32.000 go.

01:36:36.000 Like, I think that's what they're trying to explain.

01:36:39.000 But again, this video goes way into depth, and they're real clear about how complicated it is.

01:36:44.000 It was a very complicated situation.

01:36:47.000 Yeah.

01:36:47.000 But there's a lot of money involved.

01:36:49.000 There's a lot of control of the area.

01:36:50.000 There's a lot of, in terms of, like, tactical control, the ability for a military to have control in case there's some sort of an invasion or something.

01:37:01.000 Yeah.

01:37:02.000 Yeah, I mean, it's...

01:37:04.000 Yeah, I mean, look, all I know is that, you know, again, there's innocent civilians getting killed.

01:37:10.000 And at the end of the day, like, look, even if Putin, you know, they keep making it...

01:37:14.000 Well, if he gets into Kiev, right, he gets into the city.

01:37:19.000 Like, you know, then they take over the city.

01:37:21.000 Well, let me tell you something.

01:37:23.000 Take it from us.

01:37:24.000 Take it from us that even when you take over that city, now you're going to fight 20 years of guerrilla warfare.

01:37:29.000 Yeah.

01:37:30.000 You know what I mean?

01:37:31.000 Like, what, again, what is...

01:37:35.000 What's the purpose here?

01:37:36.000 What are you gonna gain?

01:37:38.000 Right.

01:37:39.000 What are you gonna gain?

01:37:40.000 What are you gonna gain?

01:37:41.000 Well, I mean, I think what he's looking for is Ukraine to give in to his demands, right?

01:37:48.000 Well, I think he, maybe he thought that in the beginning, but at this point he should probably see that that's not, I mean, I think it's not going to happen.

01:37:56.000 I mean, the difference in, like, obviously we handled it different, but the difference in us going to Iraq and Afghanistan versus him going here is, like, he also has the world against him, not only Ukraine.

01:38:08.000 You know, the world is against him doing this, which, you know, yeah, I don't know.

01:38:17.000 I don't understand it.

01:38:18.000 I don't get it. 0.63

01:38:18.000 And again, I just know that it just sucks because of politics, again, people are suffering. 0.63

01:38:29.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:38:29.000 Yeah, it does suck and it is horrible. 1.00

01:38:33.000 And it's also, it speaks to the distrust that people have in the mainstream media today because so many people don't know what is the true story. 0.98

01:38:44.000 What am I supposed to believe?

01:38:47.000 How do you trust them?

01:38:48.000 Right.

01:38:49.000 How do you trust them?

01:38:51.000 Because even if they, let's say, even if they only show a part of the story that is real, It's lying.

01:39:00.000 If you don't tell the whole story, it's the same as lying.

01:39:04.000 Yes, it is the same as lying.

01:39:06.000 If you tell a distorted version of the story because that's what the people that are paying for your advertisements want you to tell, that's lying.

01:39:14.000 It's lying.

01:39:15.000 It is.

01:39:16.000 And they're in the business of lying sometimes.

01:39:18.000 Because there's, again, there's no accountability.

01:39:21.000 There's no accountability.

01:39:23.000 How do you hold them accountable?

01:39:24.000 Well, they're being held accountable by the people that pay for their ads.

01:39:28.000 That's what's different.

01:39:29.000 It's not like...

01:39:30.000 It should be, do no harm, right?

01:39:34.000 Just like a doctor.

01:39:36.000 Doctors have an oath.

01:39:37.000 They're supposed to be trying to take care of someone and do no harm.

01:39:40.000 The same should be...

01:39:42.000 The media should be...

01:39:44.000 Their ethos should be, tell the truth always.

01:39:47.000 Give the facts.

01:39:48.000 Tell the truth.

01:39:49.000 And then...

01:39:51.000 You know, in some of these shows now, unfortunately, it becomes more about editorializing than it does even about the facts of the news.

01:40:00.000 It becomes more about the opinions of these people. 0.99

01:40:03.000 And, you know, we know they're reading off a fucking teleprompter. 0.99

01:40:06.000 We know that they have scripts. 0.99

01:40:07.000 We know that someone talks to them about talking points.

01:40:10.000 We know that they have a corporation behind them that's paying for these ads brought to you by Pfizer.

01:40:16.000 And they have all these, you know, people that are in their ear.

01:40:20.000 And so the version even of their editorializing has all been shaped by influence.

01:40:29.000 Yeah.

01:40:29.000 This is what we're using to try to figure out what's going on in the world during this tragedy.

01:40:36.000 Their accountability is to the people that are paying them and not to the people who are relying on them.

01:40:46.000 But, I mean, again, look, there's only one color that matters in this country, and that's green, in this world, and that's green.

01:40:54.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:40:57.000 Yeah, it's fucked up. 0.99

01:41:00.000 And what people are really terrified is if while this is happening, what happens if China invades Taiwan at the same time? 0.99

01:41:06.000 Well, I mean, I think that that's going to be, I think that that's inevitable.

01:41:12.000 Think so?

01:41:13.000 I do.

01:41:14.000 I mean, listen, for whatever it's worth, right?

01:41:16.000 But I mean, of course, if you were America's enemies right now, Now's as good a time as ever.

01:41:23.000 It's the best time.

01:41:25.000 Why not?

01:41:26.000 If you were America's enemy, now's the best time. 1.00

01:41:28.000 So much chaos, so much conflict.

01:41:30.000 Our priorities are so far off.

01:41:34.000 You know, we're worried about trying to make our naval fleet green, and they're over there rocking rockets around and just over there teaching meat-eaters, right? 0.97

01:41:47.000 And it's like...

01:41:49.000 I mean, I get there's a balance, but again, you can't stay the free world and stay the leader and stay an influencer if you can't protect it. 0.98

01:42:02.000 What do you think happened in terms of this crazy woke shit that's invaded the military? 0.98

01:42:07.000 I never thought I would see it in the military. 0.99

01:42:09.000 I thought that would be the one sector of our society that would be immune to that kind of ridiculous ideology.

01:42:18.000 I mean, I just think that people, you know, people have gotten so, they get offended by everything.

01:42:27.000 And I don't know, like, I... But why?

01:42:31.000 Well, because...

01:42:31.000 Coming from a person who's served and been in combat duty and experienced the horrors, like, real problems.

01:42:39.000 Like, what is it about that?

01:42:42.000 I mean... 1.00

01:42:43.000 With this woke shit. 1.00

01:42:44.000 Again, I just think that life, like, we have first world problems. 1.00

01:42:47.000 Right.

01:42:48.000 And that's it, right?

01:42:49.000 It's the ultimate first world problem, right?

01:42:51.000 Well, it is.

01:42:52.000 And that's all of our, most of our problems here are ultimate first world problems.

01:42:57.000 And, you know, like, but again, you have to understand, like, talk about my generation.

01:43:05.000 You know, my generation, we had access to internet, right?

01:43:09.000 Like, Like, everything was kind of instant gratification.

01:43:11.000 I didn't have to go out and raise a garden, and I didn't have to do the things that my grandparents had to do to be able to live and to be able...

01:43:18.000 Everything's convenient for me, but it doesn't mean that, like...

01:43:22.000 So, these people who are portraying these problems, they are true problems to them, and they are that big of a deal to them, but it's kind of like when you're looking at your kids.

01:43:34.000 Like, when my daughter comes to me and she's like...

01:43:36.000 You know, so-and-so, he said this and it hurt my feelings and she's devastated.

01:43:43.000 It goes back to adversity.

01:43:45.000 That is the biggest problem she's ever dealt with.

01:43:48.000 And it is that big to her.

01:43:50.000 Right.

01:43:50.000 Just because it's not to me because I've dealt with all this other...

01:43:53.000 It is that big to her.

01:43:55.000 And that's what's happening with everybody else.

01:43:57.000 It's like we have first world problems here.

01:43:58.000 And they haven't had adversity.

01:44:00.000 And they haven't had to have that.

01:44:02.000 And so these things come up.

01:44:04.000 And instead of learning how to deal with them, we're trying to cater to them.

01:44:08.000 Right.

01:44:08.000 Instead of...

01:44:09.000 You know, when people get offended by what I say, I always ask...

01:44:15.000 Is it inaccurate?

01:44:18.000 Was it offensive?

01:44:20.000 Or was it that you just didn't like what I said?

01:44:25.000 Did you just not agree with me?

01:44:26.000 Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean I'm wrong.

01:44:28.000 Well, some people get offended too easily, and they don't want to hear that.

01:44:34.000 But some people get upset at things too easily, and it's because they're making a problem that a lot of folks would think is not a very big problem, and they're turning it into a gigantic one in their head because they don't have real problems.

01:44:44.000 I mean, I couldn't imagine going to my dad and telling him that...

01:44:49.000 Somebody said something to me.

01:44:50.000 It hurt your feelings.

01:44:51.000 It hurt my feelings.

01:44:53.000 I couldn't imagine.

01:44:54.000 Well, you know, that's an old expression.

01:44:57.000 You know, the hard times create hard men.

01:45:00.000 Hard men create easy times.

01:45:02.000 Easy times create weak men.

01:45:04.000 Weak men create hard times.

01:45:06.000 And this is the cycle of existence.

01:45:10.000 I remember when I was a kid, I was reading about the fall of the Roman Empire.

01:45:14.000 And we were just talking about the excess of the Roman Empire during its demise.

01:45:19.000 And I remember thinking, I wonder if that's ever going to happen here.

01:45:23.000 Because I remember thinking, like, every civilization in the past that was a great civilization, whether, you know, whatever it is, ancient Egypt or whatever ancient civilization that was this dominant civilization, Massive civilization,

01:45:39.000 they all went away.

01:45:41.000 They all, the ancient Greeks...

01:45:43.000 And we're on the fast track.

01:45:45.000 Yeah.

01:45:45.000 Oh my God, we're moving so fast.

01:45:47.000 I mean, we're one of the youngest nations and we're the superpower.

01:45:50.000 Yes.

01:45:52.000 We're one of the youngest nations, and we're also unique in that we're a nation of immigrants.

01:46:00.000 It's a nation consisted entirely of people who moved here.

01:46:04.000 And obviously Native Americans as well, but the people that moved here are the bulk of the humans that are here.

01:46:15.000 It's so recent.

01:46:17.000 I talked about it in my comedy special.

01:46:19.000 I said the United States was founded in 1776. People lived to be 100. I go, that's three people ago.

01:46:26.000 It's three people ago.

01:46:27.000 Three people ago.

01:46:28.000 Three people ago they decided to try to figure out how to create this new And look what we've gone through.

01:46:36.000 Yeah, pretty wild.

01:46:37.000 Pretty wild, right?

01:46:39.000 You know, and I just think, you know, look, like we have to keep that in mind, and again, but people are just so entitled, right?

01:46:47.000 Like, you know, they've, I don't know, like we're the, I don't want this to sound terrible, but we're the trust fund babies of the world.

01:46:53.000 We are the trust fund babies of the world, yeah.

01:46:54.000 You know what I mean?

01:46:55.000 No, that's not, I don't think that sounds terrible at all.

01:46:57.000 I think...

01:46:58.000 Well, I don't want to offend trust fund babies, you know what I mean?

01:47:00.000 I think they need a little offending.

01:47:02.000 But we're spoiled.

01:47:05.000 We really are.

01:47:06.000 I used to say that about California.

01:47:08.000 That California was like, we were the trust fund people when it comes to the weather.

01:47:13.000 Because there's no weather in California.

01:47:15.000 So no one has a real sense of what nature can do to you.

01:47:18.000 And growing up in Massachusetts...

01:47:20.000 Except those wildfires. 1.00

01:47:21.000 Yeah, those wildfires are a motherfucker. 0.99

01:47:23.000 Those are a wake-up call. 0.99

01:47:24.000 Those make people nicer.

01:47:26.000 In Massachusetts, when it would snow, everybody would kind of get together.

01:47:30.000 You'd help people.

01:47:31.000 You'd see somebody pulled over to the side of the road, people would pull over and try to help them.

01:47:34.000 They'd try to get them out of a ditch if they got stuck.

01:47:36.000 They'd try to help push them or help shovel them.

01:47:39.000 That was the thing that people...

01:47:40.000 You realize you could die out here.

01:47:43.000 When it's 10 below zero and it's in the middle of fucking January and you see someone whose hazard lights are on and there's no one else on the road, you feel obligated to help that person. 0.90

01:47:54.000 And there's a thing about nature Where it makes you confront your own vulnerability, your own mortality. 0.88

01:48:00.000 And California doesn't get that very often.

01:48:02.000 And I have this theory of, I don't know, I just believe that the more adversity you've gone through, the more hard times you've gone through, the more power you have to help others.

01:48:15.000 The more struggle you've had, the more you can help others.

01:48:19.000 Yes.

01:48:19.000 Because in the more vulnerability you have, right?

01:48:24.000 Because to help somebody, you have to be vulnerable.

01:48:26.000 You just have to.

01:48:29.000 To connect with somebody, you have to be vulnerable.

01:48:33.000 And people who have gone through stuff and came out of it, they have the power to be vulnerable because they know that they're going to get through it.

01:48:49.000 Yeah.

01:48:50.000 In order to get people to connect with you, they have to understand that you've experienced some bad situations yourself.

01:48:58.000 It's not simply just that you know the right way to go about things.

01:49:02.000 One of the things that Jocko does so well is talk about everything.

01:49:07.000 Your own human shortcomings, your own doubts, your own fears, all those things, and then how to get through it.

01:49:14.000 Yeah, I mean, Jocko has this way of It's awesome.

01:49:20.000 He defuses you before you even know it.

01:49:23.000 You could come in.

01:49:25.000 He has this way of you could have this whole built up.

01:49:29.000 If I'm about to go nuclear, I call Jocko.

01:49:32.000 Do you?

01:49:33.000 He'll tell you.

01:49:34.000 He'll tell you.

01:49:35.000 We talked about it on the last podcast.

01:49:38.000 I'll call Jocko and he listens.

01:49:41.000 He listens to you, so you're kind of like running around in a circle and telling him, I've got this whole plan built up, and this is how I see it.

01:49:51.000 And then he lets you wear yourself out, and then he comes in and he talks logic.

01:49:55.000 Yeah.

01:49:58.000 I'll never forget, I called him this one time about this.

01:50:02.000 I was so pissed off at some stuff that had happened, and I was like, dude, I'm going to go over here.

01:50:07.000 I'd already had this plan that I'm going to...

01:50:09.000 It's on.

01:50:10.000 I'm ready to lose everything.

01:50:13.000 Settle down, Dakota. 0.99

01:50:14.000 There it was.

01:50:15.000 He listened, and he goes...

01:50:17.000 Okay.

01:50:18.000 He goes, check.

01:50:21.000 Check.

01:50:22.000 And he said...

01:50:23.000 Well, is it, he said, the only time you should fight or the only time you should go at or entertain this stuff with people is one way, is if it's willing to, are you willing to lose everything?

01:50:35.000 Are you willing to go all in?

01:50:38.000 Because, you know, you do this and then they buck up to you.

01:50:42.000 Well, you're going to lose and look even worse if you don't do something and keep going, right?

01:50:46.000 Like, how far do you want to take it?

01:50:48.000 And he's like, the only time it makes sense to engage in something like this is if you're willing to just say, hey, look, it's worth me losing everything that I got, my freedom, whatever it is.

01:50:59.000 And he said, outside that, it ain't worth it.

01:51:01.000 And when it gets to that point, that's your deciding factor.

01:51:04.000 That's when it's time to engage.

01:51:05.000 Yeah.

01:51:06.000 And I was like, gosh, man, like, he just, he, but he defuses you, right?

01:51:10.000 Like, because he, he's not gonna, he kind of lets you wear yourself out and figure it out.

01:51:15.000 And then he just kind of helps you, guide you, right?

01:51:18.000 Like, hits you with some logic.

01:51:20.000 Some logic.

01:51:21.000 Yeah.

01:51:22.000 Well, he's a leader.

01:51:23.000 You know, Jocko's one of those rare people that's an actual, real, bona fide leader.

01:51:29.000 You know?

01:51:30.000 Yeah.

01:51:30.000 And you could talk to him about pretty much anything, and he'll be able to look at it rationally.

01:51:36.000 Yeah, he's such a unique guy.

01:51:39.000 Such an incredible guy.

01:51:41.000 That dude's done so much for me, just, you know, as a friend and, like, a guy.

01:51:47.000 I owe Jocko so much.

01:51:49.000 I think a lot of us do, you know, as a friend and just as an example.

01:51:54.000 As an example of, you know, the way he likes to describe it.

01:51:58.000 Extreme ownership.

01:51:59.000 Ownership of everything.

01:52:01.000 Failures, successes, you know.

01:52:03.000 He's the real deal.

01:52:04.000 You know, like, I hear people talk sometimes, like, I just want to be like Jocko, and I'm like, you'll never be like Jocko, but you can strive to be like Jocko.

01:52:11.000 Jocko is a superhuman, you know?

01:52:14.000 Yeah, good luck.

01:52:15.000 I mean, you'd have to live his life, and you might not survive.

01:52:19.000 That's the reality of a Jocko, is like, Jocko didn't have to make it, you know, and all the things that he's gone through.

01:52:25.000 Same with you.

01:52:26.000 All the things you've gone through.

01:52:27.000 You didn't have to make it.

01:52:27.000 You know, you did, and you're very fortunate that you did, but you don't make a person like you, you don't make a person like Jocko easily.

01:52:36.000 It's not easy.

01:52:38.000 Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like that iron sharpens iron, right?

01:52:41.000 Mm-hmm.

01:52:42.000 Yeah, absolutely.

01:52:44.000 Now that this book is out, like...

01:52:47.000 It came out today.

01:52:48.000 Oh, today?

01:52:49.000 Really?

01:52:49.000 Yeah.

01:52:49.000 No shit.

01:52:50.000 Well, that's probably why we scheduled this, huh? 1.00

01:52:52.000 Yeah.

01:52:53.000 So when it comes out, what do you do now?

01:52:56.000 Do you have to do like a book tour?

01:52:58.000 Do you have to go talk to a bunch of people?

01:53:00.000 Yeah, I mean, I went on Andy Frisella's podcast yesterday.

01:53:03.000 Okay, cool.

01:53:04.000 It was badass.

01:53:06.000 Me and Rob went out there.

01:53:06.000 I was in St. Louis and then here today.

01:53:08.000 Is that where he does his?

01:53:09.000 Yeah.

01:53:10.000 Out there?

01:53:10.000 Yeah.

01:53:12.000 He's an incredible guy.

01:53:13.000 I'm friends with him online.

01:53:14.000 I just chit-chat with him.

01:53:16.000 He's such an incredible guy.

01:53:17.000 Went out there to their facility and just the culture he brings. 0.94

01:53:21.000 He's a guy that lives life on his own terms and he cares about people and he's real thoughtful and he's very fucking smart.

01:53:29.000 He seems very smart and he has a love of 1970 Chevelles like I do. 0.61

01:53:33.000 He does.

01:53:34.000 His facility's crazy.

01:53:36.000 His car is insane.

01:53:37.000 So awesome. 0.99

01:53:37.000 That 70 Chevelle he has, that thing's fucking beautiful. 0.99

01:53:40.000 But yeah, his message and the way he communicates online is like, I like it. 0.94

01:53:45.000 You know, like when you walk into places and you can tell a lot about the vision and the owner by the company, right?

01:53:55.000 Especially a place like his big.

01:53:57.000 Everywhere in that place, out at First Form, was just like, Crazy.

01:54:02.000 Like, just everything.

01:54:03.000 Great energy.

01:54:04.000 People are so nice.

01:54:05.000 I mean, you could just tell that it was awesome, and he's a great guy.

01:54:09.000 We did the podcast with him yesterday.

01:54:11.000 So funny.

01:54:12.000 So smart.

01:54:13.000 And he cares.

01:54:13.000 He cares about people, and he cares about people.

01:54:16.000 And that's how I judge people.

01:54:18.000 It's like, do you care about people?

01:54:19.000 How do you treat people?

01:54:20.000 Because that's really all that matters.

01:54:23.000 And so, like, you know, this, you know, we're going out.

01:54:26.000 I'm on here today, and then we've got, you know, some things tomorrow, and this week, and then Yeah.

01:54:32.000 So you just do like a tour?

01:54:33.000 You gonna do any like television shows or any of that stuff?

01:54:36.000 No, I mean...

01:54:38.000 It's kind of over for that stuff, isn't it?

01:54:39.000 It's kind of over.

01:54:40.000 Like, it's the podcast game, right?

01:54:41.000 Yeah.

01:54:42.000 We've been doing podcasts for the last two weeks, so...

01:54:45.000 Yeah, so just going around, just trying to spread the word about it, talk about it.

01:54:51.000 Yeah.

01:54:52.000 And how long have you been doing a podcast now?

01:54:54.000 So I do the American Party...

01:54:58.000 I mean, I've been podcasting for like four years.

01:55:03.000 Switched around to different formats.

01:55:05.000 Like, I used to do the interviewing and I just, it's hard to get guests to rely on guests, right?

01:55:11.000 So I do it with Dan Holloway.

01:55:13.000 We do the American Party and it's just about like...

01:55:15.000 You just talk?

01:55:16.000 We just talk.

01:55:16.000 It's about principles, right?

01:55:17.000 Mm-hmm.

01:55:19.000 You know, yeah.

01:55:20.000 So, I mean, it's just about principles.

01:55:21.000 It's about, you know, I don't care if you're left or right.

01:55:24.000 Like, look, I just care if you're a good person.

01:55:27.000 And that's pretty simple.

01:55:29.000 Yeah, it's a lot more simple than whether, you know, the left and right thing's complicated.

01:55:34.000 It's like the reasons why people are left versus the reason why people are right.

01:55:38.000 What do you define as left versus what do you define as right?

01:55:41.000 You know, I think that's a complicated conversation.

01:55:45.000 It's a complicated conversation.

01:55:46.000 I don't even know if they're even loyal to that, right?

01:55:50.000 And so it's just, you know, we do the American Party podcast and we just try to break it down to looking at it from what's best for the people.

01:56:00.000 What's best for people?

01:56:01.000 And, you know, those are principles.

01:56:02.000 Those are principles of, you know, to do good for others, to do good for yourself.

01:56:08.000 You know, it's all this stuff.

01:56:09.000 I'm not smart enough to make things complicated, so I just have to keep them simple.

01:56:13.000 It works out for me.

01:56:15.000 Yeah, well, you know, there's some people that love making things more complicated.

01:56:19.000 They get off on it.

01:56:21.000 Well, there's confusion there.

01:56:22.000 There's power when confusion.

01:56:23.000 Yeah, there's like a rush in explaining things in a way that baffles most people.

01:56:29.000 Where you go, wait a minute, what are you saying exactly?

01:56:31.000 And they're using all these fancy words and elaborating in a beautiful, you know, pontificating in a beautiful way.

01:56:38.000 It sounds good sometimes.

01:56:40.000 Sounds good. 0.99

01:56:40.000 Sounds good, but it doesn't sound good if you don't know what the fuck they just said. 0.99

01:56:44.000 Like, some people are too smart. 0.99

01:56:46.000 I'll talk to them, like, hold on, slow down.

01:56:48.000 What did you just say?

01:56:49.000 Can you break it down to where I understand it?

01:56:51.000 Talk to me like I'm five.

01:56:54.000 That's how I have to do everything.

01:56:56.000 So you do it once a week?

01:56:57.000 No, twice a week.

01:56:59.000 So we do Wednesdays and Fridays.

01:57:02.000 I love it.

01:57:03.000 Just to try to break down things that are going on and how it's going to affect us.

01:57:08.000 Does this really matter or not?

01:57:10.000 How many times are we focused on things that really don't matter?

01:57:13.000 A lot.

01:57:14.000 And that's what I talk about in this book of I'm a helicopter pilot.

01:57:20.000 There's a lot of things going on when you're flying a helicopter.

01:57:24.000 If you try to focus on every single gauge while you're flying, you can't get through all of them.

01:57:32.000 I'm always looking out the windshield, 90% out the windshield.

01:57:35.000 I use a 9-in-1 technique.

01:57:37.000 And so, 90% out the windshield, making sure I'm not running into things.

01:57:41.000 And then, you know, 10% inside looking at, like, three gauges that matter to me, right?

01:57:46.000 Because I know if those gauges are good, if something else goes wrong, I can auto-rotate it down, right?

01:57:51.000 And it's the same thing in life.

01:57:53.000 Like, let's just stay focused on what matters.

01:57:55.000 Quit getting distracted on the static.

01:58:00.000 Stop giving things more legs than, you know, are you having a bad day?

01:58:04.000 Do you have a bad life or are you having a bad day?

01:58:06.000 Or are you having a bad moment?

01:58:08.000 Right.

01:58:09.000 Stop giving.

01:58:10.000 Obviously, we all have negative things and we all have obstacles in our lives, but don't give it more power than it really is.

01:58:19.000 Right.

01:58:20.000 Than it deserves.

01:58:21.000 Yeah.

01:58:23.000 There's a great expression that I've talked about before, but it's worth mentioning again.

01:58:30.000 There's an expression, the worst thing that's ever happened to you is the worst thing that's ever happened to you, no matter what it is.

01:58:37.000 Like, if you've had a sheltered life and the worst thing that ever happened to you is someone said something that hurt your feelings, that is the worst thing that's ever happened to you.

01:58:44.000 And we see that with children, right?

01:58:46.000 With little kids.

01:58:47.000 It's like, because they haven't had a lot of life experiences.

01:58:50.000 And then we see people that have gone through hell and those people, you know, I don't want my children to go through hell, but those people are more resilient.

01:58:58.000 They're different.

01:58:59.000 They have more, they've got more life experiences to judge it against. 0.99

01:59:05.000 So a thing like someone being mean to them, you know, if you grow up in some hard part, some Eastern Bloc country where things are rough, like you don't want to hear any of that bullshit. 0.98

01:59:15.000 Like just an insult, that's not enough. 0.98

01:59:18.000 Yeah.

01:59:18.000 That's not the worst thing that's ever happened to them.

01:59:20.000 But we just have to, like, we have to stop trying to out-victimize each other, right?

01:59:26.000 Like, look, the worst, like you said, look, the worst day of your life, the worst day of my life is no more significant than the worst day of your life.

01:59:33.000 They're both the worst days of our life.

01:59:35.000 And if we stop trying to out-victimize each other, see who's seen worse or done worse or been through worse, and we're just like, hey, look, like, hey, here's what I've been through.

01:59:45.000 Yeah.

01:59:45.000 Man, we can get through this.

01:59:47.000 But there's a culture in this country, unfortunately, that has arisen, you know, within my lifetime, of victim, like, there's just like a currency to victimhood.

02:00:00.000 Like, the more things are stacked against you, the more you get to complain about those things stacked against you, the more you get to, like, wear it.

02:00:08.000 Well, it becomes your identity.

02:00:09.000 Yeah.

02:00:10.000 It becomes your identity, right?

02:00:11.000 It's a problem.

02:00:12.000 I mean, it is a problem, right?

02:00:15.000 Because we reward it, right?

02:00:16.000 And there's no accountability to get through it.

02:00:20.000 There's more reward to having that and being able to talk about it and being able to use that as your identity than there is to put the work in to get better.

02:00:30.000 And a lot of times, we just don't want to...

02:00:34.000 That's what I'm fortunate about with my friends.

02:00:36.000 I tell a story in here about Tim.

02:00:41.000 When I was going through my divorce and when I first moved to Austin, Onnit was a critical piece to me.

02:00:49.000 It was kind of like the only...

02:00:52.000 Stable, consistent place I could go to working out with Tim and Juan and Eric and John Wolf and all of them.

02:01:01.000 Those guys, like, literally just...

02:01:02.000 I knew if I could make it to the gym that I was going to have an hour or two hours, I'd be all right.

02:01:07.000 And I'll never forget, I walked into Tim and I was like, man, we were doing some workout and I'm like, I'm just fat, right?

02:01:16.000 Like, just probably looking for some empathy, right?

02:01:20.000 And Tim looks at me and goes, Yeah, and hey, check it out.

02:01:26.000 People look at you as a warrior, and you need to look like one, so fix it.

02:01:32.000 And it's like, you know, I didn't need him to be like, oh, no, man, it's okay.

02:01:37.000 You know, you look all right.

02:01:40.000 I needed somebody to sit here and tell me, like, hey, yeah, you know what?

02:01:44.000 You're spot on.

02:01:45.000 At least we identified the problem, so now it's time to get busy fixing it.

02:01:48.000 Yeah, and that can be done.

02:01:50.000 But it doesn't feel good.

02:01:52.000 Yeah, that's the point, though.

02:01:53.000 That's what fat shaming's all about. 0.81

02:01:55.000 But don't you think it's offensive?

02:01:57.000 Don't you think I could have sit here and been offended by that?

02:02:00.000 Oh yeah, for sure. 1.00

02:02:01.000 Your feelings could have been hurt and you could have went straight to the donut shop and been like, fuck him. 1.00

02:02:06.000 I mean, this is one of the things we see today with a lot of people online, whether this whole body positivity thing. 1.00

02:02:11.000 It's like, it's such nonsense.

02:02:13.000 Like, yes, it's awful if someone's mean to you purposely and hurts your feelings and mocks you for the way you look because you're obese.

02:02:20.000 Yes, that's not nice at all.

02:02:23.000 But this whole idea that You love it, and this is who you are, and everybody should just accept it, and then pretending that it's healthy, which is really weird.

02:02:36.000 People will distort the reality of medical science and pretend that there's not some real significant effect that obesity has on all parts of your body.

02:02:49.000 All sorts of things go wrong if you're obese.

02:02:52.000 But we send this message to people that body positivity is the way to go, that it's okay, but it's not okay.

02:02:58.000 It's not.

02:02:58.000 I mean, look, it sucks if someone could point something out and like, hey, you have let this lapse, you have treated your body in a poor way, and because of that, you have a significant problem, and you got to do something about it.

02:03:10.000 Like Tim said to you, fix it. 0.96

02:03:14.000 That's a reality of so many fucking people out there, and they don't ever get that speech, and they don't ever fix it. 0.99

02:03:22.000 And instead, they try to come up with reasons why it's okay to be obese. 0.99

02:03:27.000 And it's not okay to be obese.

02:03:29.000 It's terrible.

02:03:30.000 It's terrible for you.

02:03:31.000 It's terrible for the people around you.

02:03:33.000 It's selfish. 0.81

02:03:36.000 You're gonna get sick.

02:03:37.000 It's gonna be a real problem.

02:03:39.000 People don't want to hear it.

02:03:40.000 They want to think that somehow or another it's okay. 0.99

02:03:43.000 And especially during the pandemic, like, my God, it's like one of the main factors for whether or not you're going to be healthy and whether or not you're going to survive this fucking thing. 0.96

02:03:53.000 It's a, you know, one of the main factors was obesity. 0.94

02:03:57.000 Yeah, I mean, yeah, and I just like, you know, the frustrating part to me was just, I got it.

02:04:04.000 I got it.

02:04:04.000 Look, do whatever makes you feel safe.

02:04:06.000 I'm in.

02:04:07.000 Whatever.

02:04:08.000 I don't care what that is.

02:04:09.000 Right, whatever it is.

02:04:10.000 Whatever you've done, just do it.

02:04:12.000 Do it.

02:04:12.000 I don't care.

02:04:13.000 Leave me alone.

02:04:15.000 And look, if you...

02:04:16.000 I just never forget, I was in the grocery store, and obviously I didn't have a mask on.

02:04:24.000 I was being the selfish me.

02:04:25.000 And I walked in.

02:04:27.000 I wasn't around anybody, but this woman was in... 1.00

02:04:32.000 I mean, she was, she was very obese. 1.00

02:04:37.000 And her cart was, I mean, I remember looking in there and it was like just junk food. 0.99

02:04:42.000 And she's like screaming at me, telling me how, basically how much of a piece of shit I am for not having my mask on and I'm endangering everyone. 0.98

02:04:51.000 Was there a mask mandate? 0.99

02:04:53.000 I mean, they didn't tell me I could go in the store without it.

02:04:58.000 Nobody mentioned it to me that worked there, right?

02:05:00.000 It was only people who were...

02:05:02.000 But either way, it was like, check, I got it.

02:05:05.000 Okay, I'll put my mask on.

02:05:06.000 You need me to put my mask on?

02:05:07.000 I wasn't on an airplane.

02:05:10.000 I'll put my mask on, right?

02:05:11.000 If that makes you feel better, I got you.

02:05:14.000 But I just don't understand, like, why do we only look at parts of it?

02:05:18.000 Like, okay, I'll put the mask on to protect you, but if you want to protect yourself, you should maybe start eating healthier.

02:05:25.000 You should maybe make healthier decisions all the way around.

02:05:28.000 But that's hard to do.

02:05:29.000 It's very easy to yell at you.

02:05:31.000 Well, again, and that's what I felt like is so many people were blaming me for their problems.

02:05:37.000 You know what I mean?

02:05:39.000 Yeah.

02:05:40.000 And look, obviously, I got it.

02:05:41.000 It was real.

02:05:42.000 I got it.

02:05:42.000 Check.

02:05:43.000 I'm not arguing that.

02:05:44.000 I'm just saying that now that let's say we're...

02:05:48.000 I don't even know where we're at in the pandemic anymore.

02:05:51.000 I don't know.

02:05:53.000 Can I walk around and when I see somebody who looks very, very unhealthy and I know that the science supports that, can I walk up to them and be like, hey, you don't need to be eating that.

02:06:04.000 No, because that only affects them.

02:06:05.000 The thing about you with the mask is that, you know, I don't think masks, especially most of the masks that people use, unless you're wearing an N95 mask, which most people aren't, like a really snug fit N95 mask, I don't think it's really doing much.

02:06:18.000 Those cloth masks, and especially those surgical masks, I mean, I don't think it's doing much.

02:06:22.000 Those cloth masks that you wear over, like, it's almost like these, like, what are they called?

02:06:27.000 Bandanas.

02:06:27.000 Bandanas over their face?

02:06:28.000 Yeah, nonsense.

02:06:29.000 Well, yeah.

02:06:30.000 It's nonsense.

02:06:31.000 And there's studies that are showing that it's nonsense.

02:06:34.000 Statistically, it doesn't really have that much of an effect.

02:06:36.000 Again, like, I had Michael Osterholm on recently, and he was explaining why an N95 mask works. 0.95

02:06:43.000 And that it has, like, what did he say?

02:06:45.000 It was like electrical, static...

02:06:46.000 What did he say about why the things actually cling to the mask?

02:06:52.000 Like, it prevents transmission because...

02:06:54.000 Like, it grows static charge.

02:06:56.000 Yeah.

02:06:56.000 So it's something about, like, if you are sick and you have one of those on, it actually does significantly reduce the amount of viral load that comes out of your mouth.

02:07:05.000 But most people aren't wearing those. 0.99

02:07:07.000 They're wearing these bullshit masks. 1.00

02:07:10.000 And here's the thing, man. 1.00

02:07:12.000 It's like...

02:07:15.000 If you want to go to a place and you want to...

02:07:21.000 I mean, if there's a mask law and you're not wearing a mask, that's one thing.

02:07:25.000 But if you want to go to a place and it's optional and you've got your mask on and other people don't and you're screaming and yelling at them... 0.99

02:07:32.000 Especially if you're obese and you've got a cart full of shit, you're concentrating on the wrong thing. 0.99

02:07:39.000 But again... 1.00

02:07:43.000 Where's the self-responsibility?

02:07:45.000 There's none.

02:07:46.000 But it's so easy to point a finger at mean old Dakota running around with no mask on. 1.00

02:07:51.000 You piece of shit. 1.00

02:07:53.000 What the fuck's wrong with you? 1.00

02:07:54.000 Yeah, I mean, what number in the country, as far as the world, we're one of the richest countries in the world. 0.99

02:08:02.000 Where are we at on the health scale?

02:08:05.000 That's a good question.

02:08:06.000 Let's guess.

02:08:07.000 Let's say...

02:08:08.000 17th.

02:08:09.000 No, let's go this.

02:08:12.000 As far as unhealthy, like the unhealthiest, I bet we're number six or seven.

02:08:17.000 In terms of the unhealthiest country?

02:08:19.000 Yeah.

02:08:20.000 Yeah, I'd say we're probably top ten.

02:08:22.000 Unhealthiest.

02:08:23.000 And as far as healthiest, I think we're probably top 20. No.

02:08:28.000 No?

02:08:28.000 I don't think so.

02:08:30.000 Really?

02:08:30.000 I don't know.

02:08:31.000 Yeah, you're probably right.

02:08:32.000 It's probably top.

02:08:32.000 Yeah, there's like a...

02:08:33.000 There's a bunch.

02:08:34.000 How many countries are there?

02:08:35.000 No, that's way...

02:08:37.000 How many countries are there?

02:08:41.000 A lot?

02:08:43.000 200?

02:08:44.000 I want to say there's close to 200. Close to 200. Something like that.

02:08:46.000 I think it's in the 190s.

02:08:48.000 So I would say we're...

02:08:50.000 Top 100?

02:08:52.000 For healthiness?

02:08:53.000 No.

02:08:53.000 No way.

02:08:55.000 I want to think about people like me.

02:08:57.000 So I get cocky. 0.98

02:09:00.000 I go, we're fucking healthy. 0.98

02:09:02.000 Take a lot of vitamins to work out every day. 0.97

02:09:04.000 No, we don't.

02:09:05.000 Like a small percentage of us do.

02:09:06.000 Yeah.

02:09:07.000 Alright, I'll say as far as obesity, we're top 10. We're top 10 in the most obese country.

02:09:14.000 And as far as bad health, I would say we're top 10 as far as bad health.

02:09:20.000 For sure.

02:09:21.000 As far as good health, probably top 30 or something.

02:09:25.000 What do you got, Jamie?

02:09:26.000 I'm trying to just...

02:09:28.000 Looking this up is a tough problem real fast because what's unhealthy?

02:09:34.000 So I typed in unhealthy and it's like pollution.

02:09:37.000 Okay, let's say this.

02:09:38.000 Oh, right, right, right.

02:09:39.000 Environmental factors.

02:09:40.000 Let's say this.

02:09:41.000 What percentage of people in the world...

02:09:47.000 I found why is the USA only the 35th healthiest country in the world?

02:09:53.000 All right, so we're top 35. Out of 169. Okay.

02:09:58.000 And what about the opposite?

02:10:01.000 Like, instead of the top 35 in terms of healthy, what about in terms of sick?

02:10:09.000 Like, for bad health outcomes?

02:10:13.000 Did you find something?

02:10:15.000 Here's the top 10 unhealthiest countries in the world.

02:10:23.000 This is as far as healthiest.

02:10:25.000 What about unhealthiest?

02:10:27.000 That's the first question, Jamie.

02:10:29.000 Is America one of the first unhealthiest countries?

02:10:33.000 Okay, obesity and diabetes.

02:10:35.000 For decades, the United States has had the highest obesity rate among high-income countries.

02:10:40.000 Wow.

02:10:41.000 High prevalence rate for obesity are seen in U.S. children and in every age group they're at.

02:10:47.000 So the highest obesity rate amongst high-income countries.

02:10:52.000 We're number one.

02:10:54.000 Click on top.

02:10:55.000 We'll go top 20. I already did.

02:10:56.000 We weren't in there.

02:10:57.000 We weren't?

02:10:58.000 No.

02:10:58.000 So on this one, though...

02:11:00.000 That's what I was going through.

02:11:02.000 Oh, what is the most unhealthy country?

02:11:04.000 That's again, I was going through that already.

02:11:05.000 Once you get to number five, it started making...

02:11:08.000 You can't get to it.

02:11:09.000 Is it an environmental issue?

02:11:11.000 So it's like pollution in terms of unhealthiness?

02:11:14.000 Yeah.

02:11:14.000 There's a lot going into that question.

02:11:16.000 Isn't that crazy, though?

02:11:18.000 Yeah.

02:11:18.000 Yeah, well we're the most obese.

02:11:20.000 But that's a weird thing because we have all this access to food and a lot of it is really unhealthy and it's easy to get. 0.82

02:11:28.000 Like the easiest food to get is like you could just pull into a burger place Get a milkshake, fuckin' sugary soda, get fries.

02:11:37.000 But we also have access to the most healthy food in the world.

02:11:41.000 Yeah, but it's not as easy, and it's not as cheap.

02:11:44.000 So that's laziness.

02:11:45.000 It is.

02:11:45.000 It's also, it's like, you know, people don't have a lot of time, unfortunately.

02:11:49.000 The other thing about us is the time requirements that our job takes. 0.87

02:11:54.000 Like, your job takes a lot of fuckin' time.

02:11:57.000 Isn't that, is that the narrative that we've like, is that what we just, I mean, I think you're a busy person. 0.79

02:12:02.000 Yeah, I'm a busy person, but not compared to a person that has a job that they hate.

02:12:07.000 That's the thing.

02:12:08.000 It's like you're busy, but you're busy doing something that robs you of your soul.

02:12:16.000 And that's a lot of people.

02:12:17.000 A lot of people are out there busy, but they're busy doing something that drains them.

02:12:22.000 When I leave here, I'm like, that was a good conversation.

02:12:25.000 Dakota's cool.

02:12:25.000 That was fun.

02:12:26.000 That's how I'm going to feel.

02:12:27.000 I'm not going to feel drained.

02:12:29.000 I'm going to feel like that was a good conversation.

02:12:30.000 You know, when I do stand-up tonight, same thing.

02:12:32.000 But have you always...

02:12:33.000 I mean, have you always had that?

02:12:35.000 No.

02:12:35.000 No, when I was younger, I didn't have that.

02:12:36.000 And when you were younger, did you still work out?

02:12:39.000 Yeah.

02:12:40.000 So, my point is, is that if you...

02:12:43.000 Whether you want to do something or whether you don't, you'll find an excuse.

02:12:49.000 That's true, but also...

02:12:52.000 The reality is my struggle years were not that long.

02:12:56.000 While I was struggling and while I was working out, I was young.

02:12:59.000 I had tons of energy.

02:13:01.000 I was driven and I had a plan where I wanted to get somewhere.

02:13:05.000 I wanted to have success. 0.99

02:13:08.000 Fortunately, it came true and I did have success and I did do all that stuff, but the people that haven't and they're obese now, They have a bunch of shit going on. 0.99

02:13:18.000 First of all, they have low energy levels. 0.98

02:13:20.000 It's very difficult to get something done when you have low energy levels.

02:13:24.000 It's so hard because whatever motivation I need, I mean, I'm kind of on autopilot now.

02:13:31.000 When I get up in the morning, I know I'm going to work out.

02:13:33.000 It's not like whether or not I can't.

02:13:36.000 Maybe I'll blow it off today. 0.98

02:13:37.000 I fucking never say that. 0.98

02:13:38.000 I get in there. 0.99

02:13:39.000 I always work out.

02:13:41.000 So it's not like whether or not it's going to get done.

02:13:44.000 It's going to get done.

02:13:45.000 It's brushing my teeth. 1.00

02:13:48.000 It's taking a shit. 1.00

02:13:48.000 It's normal. 1.00

02:13:49.000 I go out there.

02:13:50.000 Everything's habitual.

02:13:51.000 It is.

02:13:52.000 But my point is I have momentum and I have health.

02:13:56.000 I'm fit.

02:13:57.000 I eat right.

02:13:58.000 I take a lot of vitamins.

02:14:00.000 I'm doing all the right things in that regard.

02:14:02.000 I have the energy to go out there and work out for obese people. 0.95

02:14:05.000 It's so fucking hard because your body's drained. 0.72

02:14:10.000 So you're telling me, do you think that majority, these people we're talking about, how much time do you think they spend on their phones? 0.97

02:14:23.000 I spend a lot of time on the phones, but that's easy to do.

02:14:27.000 What I'm saying is it's not as easy for me.

02:14:30.000 This is just my own personal realization, my understanding of the human body.

02:14:34.000 When you're really fat, it's very hard to get going.

02:14:38.000 It's very hard.

02:14:39.000 Their bodies are...

02:14:40.000 Fucked up like they don't have the energy to do it and that's just a reality of what it means to be an obese person so what they have to do is force themselves you know they don't have like this feeling like I can't wait to get to the gym that feeling it's not there their feeling is okay I know that this is a process it's a long brutal process but I must begin it and it must be a part of every day and that's the only way I want to get out of this hold it up Doug I mean,

02:15:09.000 I don't I don't wake up and have that and I work out six days a week I don't and I built a gym on my property like three a hundred yards from my house And I still have to fight myself to get up to go work out at it, 0.96

02:15:26.000 right?

02:15:26.000 I can all you know just it's a choice.

02:15:28.000 It's a choice Goggins talks about it.

02:15:30.000 It's what his priority is. 0.99

02:15:30.000 Who the fuck has more discipline than Goggins? 0.99

02:15:32.000 He goes sometimes I see my shoes I stare at those motherfuckers for a half an hour I could see him in his house angry, looking at his sneakers, not wanting to go run. 1.00

02:15:46.000 And then I put him on and I say, stay hard! 1.00

02:15:47.000 Stay hard, motherfucker! 1.00

02:15:48.000 Stay hard, motherfucker! 1.00

02:15:49.000 Dude, he sends me some of the most hilarious text messages. 1.00

02:15:51.000 My favorite video of him is, you know, obviously, he's running.

02:15:56.000 I mean, dude, I don't know if he ever sleeps, but he's running and he's like, you know, I'm out here and somebody just pulled up next to me.

02:16:05.000 It's 100% humidity and it's whatever degrees.

02:16:08.000 And he's like, and he looked at me and he said, why are you here?

02:16:11.000 Or why are you running or something? 0.99

02:16:13.000 And I looked at him and I said, because you're fucking not! 0.99

02:16:19.000 He needs haters. 1.00

02:16:20.000 He likes haters.

02:16:21.000 He does.

02:16:22.000 He enjoys them. 0.99

02:16:23.000 He's like, because you're fucking not. 0.99

02:16:25.000 He likes lazy people and he likes haters because they motivate him. 0.99

02:16:28.000 He's in a constant war in his mind against weakness, against his own weakness, against other people's weakness.

02:16:37.000 Isn't that what I was talking about?

02:16:39.000 It's kind of the same thing, right?

02:16:41.000 I just talk to myself differently.

02:16:44.000 Yeah.

02:16:45.000 I guess, yeah.

02:16:46.000 I mean, I'm not...

02:16:48.000 That's what I respond to.

02:16:49.000 I respect the fuck out of that dude, and I love him to death, but I don't think his mindset's healthy.

02:16:56.000 I mean, he's never at peace.

02:16:58.000 He's never at peace.

02:16:59.000 Maybe.

02:17:00.000 I mean, it's probably not healthy if he was going to be like a youth pastor, but for him to achieve the goals he wants, I mean, he's doing it.

02:17:08.000 Not just achieve the goals he wants, but here's what's maybe as important with him is that Goggins inspires so many people to action.

02:17:17.000 There's so many people that watch his videos and they go, that is an exceptional human being.

02:17:22.000 So exceptional.

02:17:24.000 But it's because he's not trying to be well-groomed.

02:17:27.000 He's not trying to worry about offending people. 0.99

02:17:31.000 David Goggins is so clear that he doesn't give a fuck what you think about him. 0.98

02:17:36.000 And whether you're watching his video or not, he's going to still be getting after it. 0.99

02:17:40.000 Yeah, it's real, too.

02:17:41.000 His attitude about those things is 100% real.

02:17:44.000 I've never met him.

02:17:45.000 Oh, really?

02:17:46.000 No, I love David Goggins.

02:17:47.000 I watch his videos and I just like...

02:17:50.000 I wish I could be that.

02:17:52.000 I would love to introduce you to him.

02:17:54.000 You'd love him.

02:17:55.000 He's a great guy.

02:17:56.000 He's a lot of fun, too.

02:17:57.000 You'd think that he'd be like, stay hard all the time, constantly, but no, he laughs a lot.

02:18:01.000 He's a fun guy.

02:18:05.000 He's always working out, right? 0.99

02:18:08.000 So he's always drained of all the bullshit that a lot of people carry around with him. 0.99

02:18:13.000 A lot of people carry around some unnecessary bullshit that they can get rid of with a hard workout. 1.00

02:18:18.000 Yeah. 0.95

02:18:18.000 A hard workout, like, you know, the things, if you ever notice, like, the things that bother you, like, that are on your mind before you start working out versus when you're done. 0.95

02:18:28.000 Totally different.

02:18:29.000 You got a totally different perspective.

02:18:30.000 Totally different life.

02:18:31.000 It's like, life is okay. 0.99

02:18:32.000 Like, a fucking brutal workout, after it's over, you're like, whew. 0.99

02:18:36.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:18:37.000 I'm gonna be alright.

02:18:38.000 Yeah.

02:18:38.000 Yeah, it's therapy.

02:18:39.000 Honestly, that wasn't that big of a deal.

02:18:41.000 It's not that big of a deal.

02:18:42.000 It's like that's a form of therapy.

02:18:44.000 And it's also a form of therapy that requires you to engage and to work.

02:18:48.000 And I think that is just as much an important aspect of it as anything, is that you're forcing yourself to do something that's very difficult.

02:18:56.000 And through that, you get this alleviation of anxiety and stress and all the good stuff, and it's great for your body.

02:19:03.000 But also, it's great for your mind, because your mind did the work. 0.99

02:19:07.000 Your mind is what tells your body what the fuck to do. 0.96

02:19:11.000 You know, my friend John Joseph, he's the lead singer of the Cro-Mags, and he's done a bunch of shit-ton of triathlons. 0.99

02:19:18.000 And a bunch of Ironmans. 0.99

02:19:20.000 And one of the things that I love about what he loves about triathlons and Ironman, he says, because your mind has to tell your body who the fuck the boss is. 0.99

02:19:32.000 Yeah. 0.98

02:19:33.000 You know?

02:19:34.000 Your mind. 1.00

02:19:35.000 Because your body's like, oh, this is bullshit, let's quit. 1.00

02:19:37.000 And your mind's like, fuck you. 1.00

02:19:39.000 Keep going. 1.00

02:19:40.000 Your mind can control the body.

02:19:43.000 That's what I love.

02:19:44.000 Yeah.

02:19:45.000 I love, I love those workouts where it's just like, where it's like anybody could do it and you know, you could take off.

02:19:52.000 Like I try to do everything, like these workouts I'm talking about for time, right?

02:19:56.000 Because, you know, it's like you can take off because you can get through anything.

02:20:00.000 You can pace yourself, you know, all these things.

02:20:02.000 And for me, I just like, I like to get to that dark place and I like to just get in there and I just like to, For me, I'm not going to go talk.

02:20:10.000 I'm not very good at talking to people about my problems.

02:20:13.000 I feel like I'm inconveniencing them, and then when I verbalize them, they're not that big.

02:20:18.000 So for me, this is kind of like my time to my counseling session with myself, where I don't have to say anything.

02:20:29.000 And at the end of it, I come out and I feel better.

02:20:32.000 But I'm physically beat.

02:20:34.000 I love just getting to that dark place where it's just like, oh yeah, this is where I like it.

02:20:41.000 And I come out of it and I'm like, done.

02:20:43.000 I'm ready to get after it again.

02:20:45.000 I'm relieved.

02:20:46.000 But sometimes I just have to get in there.

02:20:49.000 I just have to...

02:20:50.000 Push myself harder and just be like, no, I'm going to quit on my terms.

02:20:56.000 I'm going to stop on my terms.

02:20:57.000 Not when my body gets tired.

02:20:59.000 I'm going to stop when I say I'm tired.

02:21:02.000 Yeah.

02:21:03.000 Well, I think with a lot of people, what's going on is society's created these tensions and these problems that our body doesn't totally understand.

02:21:15.000 I think our body thinks of conflicts as being danger to our body.

02:21:20.000 You know, physically dangerous conflicts.

02:21:22.000 I think our body thinks of conflicts, of anything that you've got that's going on that's giving you stress, our body thinks we're gonna have to go to war.

02:21:29.000 Like you're gonna have to fight off a neighboring tribe.

02:21:32.000 You're gonna have to fight off a predator.

02:21:34.000 There's gonna be... 1.00

02:21:34.000 The way we evolved as an intelligent being, the way we got to today is we had to fight off a lot of shit. 1.00

02:21:42.000 And so your body is programmed to fight off a lot of shit. 0.99

02:21:46.000 Now all of a sudden you get to this place in 2022 Where you're not really fighting anything off, but you have those same feelings. 0.99

02:21:52.000 And I think until you wreck your body and just tax it out, you can't think rationally.

02:21:59.000 I think all those people that have major anxiety and major problems and don't have a rigorous workout schedule, I think they do themselves a disservice because I don't think you're able to think as clearly.

02:22:11.000 Do you think that like...

02:22:13.000 I mean, how many people do you think are out there That have never been punched in the mouth.

02:22:19.000 A lot.

02:22:21.000 And go back every generation, right?

02:22:24.000 Like, my dad's generation. 0.99

02:22:26.000 They all got punched.

02:22:27.000 And don't you think?

02:22:30.000 So I believe the biggest issue in just America, just talk America, Is there's no accountability, right?

02:22:37.000 But there is no accountability without conflict. 0.98

02:22:40.000 And everybody's so scared of conflict because, like, now it's to the point to where I can talk shit to you over text. 0.99

02:22:47.000 Yes. 0.99

02:22:48.000 You can't punch me in the mouth over text, right?

02:22:50.000 Exactly.

02:22:50.000 And so, like, there's no accountability.

02:22:51.000 And we've dodged all this.

02:22:53.000 I mean, I remember, like, when I was in high school, I mean, we would fight.

02:22:57.000 And then we were friends the next day.

02:23:00.000 And, I mean, you know, that's how it was.

02:23:03.000 And now it's like... 1.00

02:23:04.000 It's just crazy shit, right? 1.00

02:23:06.000 But it's like, there's no accountability. 1.00

02:23:09.000 It's also we're the same thing.

02:23:11.000 We're the same animal that we were your dad's generation, your grandpa's generation.

02:23:15.000 We're the same creature.

02:23:17.000 But now we have different rules.

02:23:18.000 And those rules aren't necessarily compatible with the way our body's set up.

02:23:23.000 No, I mean, we're built to fight.

02:23:26.000 Yeah, well, it's not whether or not we're built to fight.

02:23:29.000 We're accustomed to it in our lives.

02:23:31.000 It's a part of what got us here to 2022. This is how the human race is here.

02:23:37.000 It's not like we just laid down whatever conflict came, because we'd all be dead.

02:23:42.000 But in how many times, so what happens, you know, like you take these generations as we, you know, we're scared of conflict.

02:23:50.000 Life is conflict.

02:23:52.000 There's a lot of conflict in life.

02:23:53.000 There's a lot of, like...

02:23:54.000 And there's a lot of lessons that you learn through conflict.

02:23:57.000 Well, exactly.

02:23:58.000 And it's like, how, what's going to happen when, you know, God forbid that this country and two more generations, somebody comes here that wants conflict.

02:24:12.000 The real fear is that that happens, right?

02:24:15.000 Or the real fear is the conflict comes now and we're not prepared for it and by the time we adjust it's too late.

02:24:25.000 Yup.

02:24:26.000 I mean, that's the issue.

02:24:29.000 What would it take to snap America back into a position where we value physical resiliency, we value discipline, we value, and it's a common thing.

02:24:41.000 It's common that people exercise and are fit.

02:24:44.000 I mean, imagine what you do.

02:24:47.000 And imagine what I do and what Jocko does and Tim Kennedy does.

02:24:50.000 Imagine if the whole country adopted a way of life where you eat healthy, you train almost every day, and you think about your problems, you think about accountability, you think about your personality,

02:25:06.000 you think about interpersonal conflicts you've been in with friends or with co-workers or what have you, and you try to do better constantly.

02:25:15.000 We'd be an infinitely better country.

02:25:18.000 That's not...

02:25:19.000 Infinitely better.

02:25:19.000 It's not good for business, though.

02:25:21.000 Why isn't it good for business?

02:25:22.000 You buy things.

02:25:23.000 I buy things.

02:25:23.000 Yeah, but I mean, like...

02:25:25.000 What's business?

02:25:25.000 When you're not depressed and when you're not...

02:25:27.000 You know, when you don't have anxiety.

02:25:29.000 You know, when you feel better and you have more energy.

02:25:31.000 And, I mean, listen, it's just...

02:25:33.000 You mean like pharmaceutical business?

02:25:35.000 Yeah, I just think that everything goes back to convenience and things like that.

02:25:43.000 I mean, obviously it's nice, but the more people rely on these other things to do in their daily life, there's more money to be made there, right?

02:25:53.000 Yeah.

02:25:54.000 And I just think it's just like, I don't know.

02:25:57.000 I mean, you can't tell people, hey, look, like, yeah, I mean, it's just so tough right now.

02:26:02.000 And it's like so tough because, like, I'm raising my daughters in this.

02:26:05.000 And it's like, what is it going to look like for them?

02:26:07.000 Well, it's definitely different than it was for us.

02:26:10.000 But I'm wondering, you know, if we're going to figure this out the way we figured out every other generation. 0.93

02:26:16.000 And learn from the mistakes of the past generations and get better at it. 0.95

02:26:20.000 I'm still optimistic, although I do see a lot of fucking really troubling shit with the way people are handling stuff in society today. 0.97

02:26:30.000 I mean, yeah, I mean, look, America, we're going to be fine. 0.98

02:26:34.000 Allegedly.

02:26:35.000 No, we'll be fine.

02:26:36.000 We'll be fine.

02:26:37.000 I'll put everything on it.

02:26:37.000 We'll be fine.

02:26:39.000 Yeah, I mean, for sure.

02:26:41.000 You're not worried about China or Russia or any of this crazy stuff?

02:26:44.000 You don't think, like, Putin is capable of, like, launching a nuke?

02:26:46.000 No.

02:26:47.000 I mean, where is he going to launch it?

02:26:48.000 To us?

02:26:49.000 I think it's possible that there could come a time where Putin is experiencing so much pushback that he decides to go nuclear.

02:27:01.000 So it's kind of like here, right?

02:27:05.000 It's, you know, when...

02:27:07.000 I mean, and Milley even admitted this.

02:27:09.000 Who did?

02:27:10.000 General Milley.

02:27:11.000 Yeah.

02:27:12.000 Joint Chief of Staff.

02:27:13.000 What did he say?

02:27:13.000 When he told China that he would call them before he nuked...

02:27:17.000 Well, that was when you're talking about Trump.

02:27:19.000 Yeah, so again, again, you know, if, yeah, if Putin himself was the only person that had to launch that nuke, maybe.

02:27:30.000 But there's still the...

02:27:31.000 Like, if Putin launches a nuke on us...

02:27:34.000 What's going to happen right behind it?

02:27:56.000 I just don't think that, like, I think people will do things whenever they're sure that it's not going to affect them, but I think that, like, the humanization factor of, oh, I'm going to push this, I'm going to support, and I'm going to have to push this nuke button or whatever it is, key or whatever.

02:28:11.000 But I also know that as soon as I do that, like, I'm going to get the first hit, but my family's going to suffer, and everybody here's going to suffer.

02:28:17.000 I just, again, like, they're worried about him dropping nukes inside of Ukraine.

02:28:22.000 Well, what he said, and this is where it gets disturbing, what he said is that if anybody supports Ukraine and, you know, the idea of NATO moves weapons into Ukraine and points him at Russia, I believe his quote was something to the nature of they will face horrors the likes of which the world has never seen.

02:28:43.000 I mean, so is he committing suicide?

02:28:45.000 Yeah.

02:28:46.000 But I mean, look, how old is he?

02:28:48.000 How old is he?

02:28:51.000 How old is Putin?

02:28:52.000 Is he 70?

02:28:54.000 Probably 70. 69. Okay, so who knows what his health is like?

02:29:02.000 Who knows how much time he's got?

02:29:04.000 I mean, when you've got a guy who's a dictator...

02:29:07.000 But then you've got people under him who have to push the button.

02:29:11.000 How does that work over there?

02:29:12.000 Do they have a similar situation?

02:29:15.000 I mean, somebody has to do it.

02:29:16.000 Right.

02:29:17.000 He's not doing it?

02:29:18.000 I mean, it ain't like a rifle.

02:29:20.000 But if he orders the first...

02:29:22.000 I mean, hasn't he given them orders to get close, to get ready?

02:29:27.000 Hasn't he put some sort of a nuclear...

02:29:29.000 What was his order that he gave up?

02:29:32.000 Up the level of readiness or whatever.

02:29:35.000 I don't know.

02:29:35.000 Right.

02:29:35.000 What does that mean?

02:29:36.000 I mean, maybe they point them.

02:29:38.000 I don't know.

02:29:39.000 Maybe they get them aimed in the right direction.

02:29:41.000 The human race has nuked countries.

02:29:44.000 We have.

02:29:45.000 Well, not us, obviously.

02:29:46.000 We're the only ones.

02:29:48.000 Well, that's enough.

02:29:50.000 It's just like, listen, it's not that long ago.

02:29:52.000 I mean, it seems like a long time ago, 1947. But if you look at, in terms of, like, the overall time that humans have been on this planet, that's pretty recent.

02:30:00.000 Like, if you look at Roman history or Greek history, like, a 50-year, 60-year, 70-year gap in between something is not much.

02:30:08.000 But you also had, like...

02:30:10.000 We also had the support.

02:30:13.000 This had affected everybody.

02:30:15.000 Right.

02:30:16.000 And we didn't worry about somebody rocking a nuke back at us.

02:30:21.000 We didn't know if they had it, right?

02:30:23.000 So now we know everybody who's got the nukes.

02:30:27.000 Yeah.

02:30:28.000 And everybody knows who's got them, who's got what.

02:30:31.000 I mean, it's all obvious.

02:30:32.000 But you know that during the 60s, there was some generals that were legitimately thinking about launching nukes against Russia, against China, against Cuba.

02:30:42.000 There was real talk about this.

02:30:45.000 Like, that's what the whole Dr. Strangelove movie is about.

02:30:48.000 We actually talked about it yesterday.

02:30:49.000 It really was based on real people that had these ideas and thought they were actually going to wind up doing that.

02:30:56.000 I mean, I just...

02:30:57.000 Look, anybody can do anything.

02:30:59.000 Like, people can do anything.

02:31:00.000 I just don't think that...

02:31:02.000 I just...

02:31:02.000 I mean, I... Maybe.

02:31:04.000 Maybe.

02:31:04.000 I just don't see, like, you know, when they're talking about nukes inside of Ukraine right now.

02:31:10.000 I mean, so...

02:31:12.000 But, I mean, you talk about Putin literally losing it.

02:31:14.000 I mean, he's done.

02:31:15.000 Like, if he drops a nuke 100%, he's done.

02:31:18.000 Is he though? 0.97

02:31:19.000 Because what if he says, I'm going to keep doing this unless you guys back the fuck off, but I did it once.

02:31:24.000 So what do you think?

02:31:25.000 What happens then?

02:31:26.000 But honestly, what happens then?

02:31:27.000 Because then we go to war, then everybody dies, right?

02:31:30.000 If we just launch missiles at him and he launches missiles at the United States, mutually assured destruction, right? 0.82

02:31:36.000 You think if one nuclear bomb goes off somewhere...

02:31:42.000 That that would automatically mean a nuclear war, or do you think people would try to still negotiate?

02:31:49.000 Depends on where he sends it.

02:31:51.000 Right.

02:31:52.000 So, I mean, like, do you think for one second, and I don't know, these are legit questions, right? 0.99

02:31:58.000 Do you feel like he's going to drop it in Ukraine while all of his people are there, and that his own people aren't going to turn on him and be like, what the fuck? 0.99

02:32:06.000 I don't know. 0.98

02:32:07.000 I mean, I feel like if he pulls out of Ukraine, pulls the troops out of Ukraine, and then nukes it...

02:32:12.000 I mean, it sounds crazy.

02:32:15.000 I don't think... 0.97

02:32:15.000 Look, obviously, I'm not a fucking... 0.97

02:32:17.000 I mean, obviously, if he's pulling troops out of... 0.96

02:32:18.000 Military analyst, I'm not a person who really...

02:32:20.000 Yeah, me either. 0.98

02:32:21.000 But what I'm saying is, who the fuck thought that we were going to have a hot war with Russia invades Ukraine with tanks and jets and they're shooting missiles into apartment buildings? 1.00

02:32:31.000 That's fucking crazy. 0.99

02:32:32.000 And nobody thought that was going to happen just a few months ago. 0.99

02:32:35.000 And now it's real.

02:32:36.000 Yeah.

02:32:37.000 I mean, again, I'm with you.

02:32:40.000 We've gone into Iraq.

02:32:42.000 You know what I mean?

02:32:43.000 I just don't see him going nuclear.

02:32:49.000 I don't see it, but it's possible.

02:32:52.000 I mean, anything's possible.

02:32:53.000 But that's the thing.

02:32:54.000 It's not just possible.

02:32:55.000 They are, rather.

02:32:56.000 He's in a war right now.

02:32:58.000 There's a real war.

02:32:59.000 Ukraine and Russia are in a real war. 0.87

02:33:01.000 That scares the fuck out of me, man. 0.78

02:33:05.000 I mean, China is the one that scares me. 1.00

02:33:08.000 That scares me, too.

02:33:09.000 I mean, China scares me. 0.56

02:33:10.000 I mean, I think Russia, you know, I think Russia's kind of showed their hands, right?

02:33:15.000 Like, Russia's kind of been like, to my generation, the guy in the bar that, you know, you walk into, you've never seen him fight, but everybody's like, oh, don't mess with that guy, right? 0.85

02:33:24.000 Like, don't, you just don't ever even mess with him, right?

02:33:27.000 Everybody's been like, well, why?

02:33:28.000 Oh, you know, he's a badass.

02:33:29.000 Mm-hmm. 0.95

02:33:30.000 And I think Putin's more screwed because he's kind of showed that, I mean, if he can't take on Ukraine, he better not try to come to anybody else. 0.81

02:33:40.000 Unless they use nuclear. 0.91

02:33:42.000 Well, again, unless he goes nuclear.

02:33:45.000 I don't think China would even support him going nuclear.

02:33:48.000 Do they have to?

02:33:49.000 Look, if he's going nuclear, it's a suicide mission, right?

02:33:53.000 Yeah. 0.95

02:33:54.000 But you think it's like you gotta always be afraid of someone who is a dictator, who has ultimate power, who's also a psychopath.

02:34:05.000 And that seems to be all those boxes get checked in this scenario.

02:34:11.000 Yeah.

02:34:12.000 I mean, I'm with you.

02:34:13.000 I don't know, man.

02:34:14.000 I want the world to be a better place than it was before, and there's a real possibility that it won't be.

02:34:21.000 The thing that every civilization is worried about, when you talk about the possibility of the advancement of the human race, the one big dilemma is if we don't blow ourselves up, That comes up all the time.

02:34:36.000 Whenever people talk about the future, like, what is the world going to be like in a million years if we don't blow ourselves up?

02:34:41.000 That's what they always say.

02:34:42.000 Like, will we get to a point where there is peace and harmony and we no longer have war?

02:34:47.000 No more conflict?

02:34:48.000 No.

02:34:49.000 Impossible?

02:34:50.000 Yeah.

02:34:51.000 Why?

02:34:51.000 Just the nature of human beings?

02:34:52.000 Yeah, I mean, it's just the nature of human beings, right?

02:34:54.000 I mean, there's just no chance.

02:34:57.000 There's no chance of us getting to a place to where there's no war.

02:35:00.000 Yeah.

02:35:01.000 There's too much, A, again, and I said it earlier, there's too much money to be made on it, right?

02:35:06.000 And look, and think about, yeah, there's too much money to be made on it.

02:35:10.000 And you don't think that Putin likes making money?

02:35:14.000 Do you think that's not a factor?

02:35:16.000 You know how much money he has?

02:35:17.000 Well, I mean... 0.99

02:35:18.000 They say he has fucking untold billions of dollars. 0.96

02:35:23.000 But I just don't think that, like... 0.98

02:35:25.000 I just don't see...

02:35:27.000 I don't know.

02:35:28.000 I mean, again, the last person on the face of the planet that needs to be talking military strategy is probably me.

02:35:35.000 I'm right next to you.

02:35:37.000 We're both last in line.

02:35:38.000 It's fun to talk about it.

02:35:40.000 It is.

02:35:40.000 But I just don't see...

02:35:42.000 I just...

02:35:44.000 Unless he's suicidal, I don't see...

02:35:49.000 I would hate to have this conversation or go back and listen to this conversation a year from now after a nuclear bomb's gone off.

02:35:55.000 I'm like, wow, we didn't even see it coming.

02:35:57.000 I'm just saying that the real fear that people have about civilizations not reaching their full potential is natural disasters or self-destruction.

02:36:10.000 Do you ever see, and again, I don't know, I'm just asking a question, do you ever see somebody, yeah, I mean, somebody who's willing, because like, you know, suicidal, sometimes, I don't know, suicidal people, they usually just hurt themselves sometimes,

02:36:27.000 right?

02:36:28.000 I mean, obviously there's a difference.

02:36:28.000 I think it's just suicidal.

02:36:30.000 What do you think it is?

02:36:30.000 It's like, you want to leave your mind.

02:36:33.000 Like, everyone's afraid of that.

02:36:34.000 That was the whole plot of that Stephen King book. 0.99

02:36:38.000 The fuck was that book? 0.98

02:36:40.000 They made it into a movie with Christopher Walken, The Dead Zone. 1.00

02:36:44.000 There was a guy who could see the future, and there was a guy who was running for president, and he could see that this guy who was running for president was going to launch the nukes.

02:36:53.000 And that launching those nukes was going to cement their name into history, which I think, for some people, is a powerful, motivating factor, believe it or not.

02:37:04.000 I mean, history has changed up all the time, so I wouldn't bet on that.

02:37:08.000 Yeah, but especially as you're getting older, what keeps a guy going when you're 69, you've been running Russia for decades, and you have untold billions of dollars?

02:37:19.000 What keeps a guy going?

02:37:22.000 I mean, I hope that, like, I mean, again, my friends, my family still being able to, gosh, enjoy my kids, right?

02:37:31.000 Like, enjoy my grandkids.

02:37:33.000 Yeah, but you're not a dictator.

02:37:34.000 You know, I think we have to think in terms of, like, dictators, like homicidal dictators.

02:37:38.000 There's a lot of dictators that they've done horrific genocidal things. 0.92

02:37:43.000 They're ruthless, ruthless people.

02:37:45.000 I mean, but, you know, if that's the case, I mean, we're going to have to be worrying about Iran. 0.59

02:37:49.000 Yeah.

02:37:50.000 I mean, North Korea.

02:37:51.000 Yeah.

02:37:52.000 Like, at the point that that dude gets sick, like, I mean, I could see it on, like, if Putin got diagnosed with a terminal illness.

02:38:00.000 Yes.

02:38:00.000 But that's the thing.

02:38:01.000 Like, what if he has one?

02:38:02.000 Did you see the podcast that I did with Yeonmi Park?

02:38:06.000 She was a woman who escaped North Korea.

02:38:08.000 Oh, she escaped over there. 0.99

02:38:09.000 Bro.

02:38:10.000 Yeah.

02:38:10.000 You listen to her account of what North Korea was like and growing up there, it's horrific.

02:38:16.000 Horrific.

02:38:16.000 It's terrifying.

02:38:17.000 And the fact this guy has complete control of his population through just complete fear.

02:38:24.000 They're so tiny over there, she was talking to me about how little everybody is, and she's so frail.

02:38:29.000 When you shake her hand, everything is so small.

02:38:34.000 Her bones are so small, and you realize she didn't get enough food.

02:38:38.000 That's why everybody's so small over there. 0.99

02:38:41.000 They're fucking starving. 0.99

02:38:45.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:38:45.000 I mean, yeah. 0.99

02:38:46.000 How do you fix it?

02:38:47.000 How do you fix it?

02:38:48.000 I mean, he keeps that population terrified, terrified and under control.

02:38:53.000 And that's the thing is, it's like that's happening right now in 2022. And one of the things about us is we're so like if someone lives in a wonderful, really safe neighborhood and you just think this is the world.

02:39:06.000 The world is like my neighborhood because that's all I experience.

02:39:09.000 And that's your point of reference.

02:39:10.000 Your point of reference is this great neighborhood that you live in where everything's safe and you never really have to worry about anything.

02:39:16.000 At the same time, there's places in the world like...

02:39:20.000 What was that?

02:39:21.000 There was...

02:39:22.000 There was...

02:39:25.000 Shane Smith from vice was telling us about This one city that has the most murders.

02:39:32.000 I think it was in Pakistan It's one city where there's more like murders and more hits like you know like people pay people like it's a shockingly low amount of money to commit murder and they just have them constantly all the time and It's just the reality of living there. 1.00

02:39:52.000 I think it was Karachi?

02:39:55.000 Was that where it was?

02:39:57.000 But we have all these things in America.

02:40:01.000 What's the murder capital of the world, Jamie?

02:40:02.000 Yeah, we do, but it's small places, right?

02:40:05.000 Like South Side of Chicago.

02:40:06.000 When I typed in the city and the world with the most murders, top three were all in Mexico.

02:40:11.000 Whoa! 0.71

02:40:11.000 That's now, right? 0.71

02:40:12.000 Yeah, I mean so.

02:40:13.000 Yeah.

02:40:15.000 But, you know, we, like...

02:40:16.000 Yeah, I mean, it's...

02:40:18.000 I don't know.

02:40:19.000 I just...

02:40:19.000 Sometimes I do get frustrated.

02:40:21.000 I mean, I love this country.

02:40:22.000 I mean, I do believe we're the greatest country on the face of the planet.

02:40:25.000 I mean, I believe that with everything I have.

02:40:27.000 But sometimes we...

02:40:28.000 I mean, we do...

02:40:31.000 We do think we're better. 0.99

02:40:33.000 Or, like, we look at others and we're kind of doing the same shit sometimes. 0.98

02:40:37.000 You know what I mean? 0.98

02:40:38.000 Like...

02:40:41.000 You know, I mean, just we, you know, we, I don't know, it's a good for me, good for thee but not for me kind of mentality sometimes.

02:40:52.000 And I just...

02:40:53.000 We were pulling up a chart the other day of the amount of drone strikes that have gone on while the Ukraine thing is happening, that the United States is participating in. 0.99

02:41:02.000 It's pretty fucked. 1.00

02:41:04.000 It's pretty fucked. 1.00

02:41:05.000 There's a lot of drone strikes going on right now all over the world that the United States participates in. 0.99

02:41:11.000 Because you're thoughtful on this, so I want to know, or you're always thoughtful, but do you think, because I keep hearing this, do you think that this issue that's going on in Ukraine, do you think it would have happened with Donald Trump?

02:41:29.000 I don't know why it's happening, so I can't answer that.

02:41:32.000 I don't know what Trump would have done differently.

02:41:34.000 It would just be pure speculation. 0.99

02:41:36.000 The people that want to think that Trump was a better leader want to think that, oh, the Russians wouldn't fuck with Trump. 0.98

02:41:44.000 He's the only guy that Russia hasn't done any invasions during his four years in office, but that could just be luck. 0.96

02:41:53.000 But don't you think it's kind of weird?

02:41:55.000 And again, I want to make this clear.

02:41:58.000 I don't care either way.

02:41:59.000 Just on either one.

02:42:02.000 But don't you think it's kind of weird that they tried to pin Russia on Trump and Biden on Ukraine before any of this broke out?

02:42:13.000 Yeah.

02:42:14.000 I mean, you know what I mean?

02:42:16.000 Yeah.

02:42:17.000 Well, the Russia-Trump thing was crazy because they got into his servers.

02:42:25.000 They hired people to hack into their campaign.

02:42:30.000 While he was president, they hacked into their computers.

02:42:33.000 They planted evidence that tried to implicate him in the shady dealings with Russia.

02:42:39.000 It wasn't just that they wanted the Clinton campaign.

02:42:43.000 It wasn't just that they were spying on him.

02:42:47.000 It was that they were...

02:42:48.000 Yeah.

02:42:49.000 Let's Google that.

02:42:51.000 Google what has been proven about...

02:42:55.000 Who was it that came up with the information?

02:42:59.000 And it just came out, and two weeks later, you got this going on.

02:43:02.000 Yeah, very quickly.

02:43:03.000 And don't you think it's kind of crazy?

02:43:05.000 People weren't upset about it. 1.00

02:43:07.000 That's what's the most fucked up. 0.99

02:43:09.000 The Democrats weren't freaking out. 0.99

02:43:10.000 They weren't saying, wait a minute, this is outside of the law.

02:43:15.000 This is a horrific violation of our laws and our boundaries of our ethics, what we think should be done and not done by someone who's a leader.

02:43:25.000 You want to find people who are actually committing crimes.

02:43:28.000 Not pin crimes on people.

02:43:30.000 But again, like, you know, you just don't think, like, it's just so weird, and I don't know if there's any correlation to it, but it's so weird that, like, they were trying to plant stuff on Trump with Russia.

02:43:41.000 Right.

02:43:42.000 And we know for a fact that Hunter Biden was taking shit-tons of money from Ukraine.

02:43:49.000 Well, it's from a company in Ukraine, right? 0.55

02:43:51.000 Well, of course.

02:43:52.000 But that's the question, is, like, does that company represent the government, or is that company just, I mean, is it just, like, Chevrolet?

02:44:00.000 Not that Chevy's corrupt, but just a company.

02:44:03.000 I don't know.

02:44:04.000 I don't know what was going on there.

02:44:06.000 I don't either.

02:44:07.000 But there seems to be, for sure, some sort of shady dealings going on when he was getting all that money, and it doesn't make any sense.

02:44:15.000 Maybe it's just a coincidence.

02:44:18.000 Could be.

02:44:20.000 What was the...

02:44:21.000 Are you looking?

02:44:22.000 Okay.

02:44:23.000 And then it's like, you know, you see that and it's just... 0.99

02:44:26.000 I think they fucking all talk to foreign leaders. 0.99

02:44:29.000 They do whatever the fuck they can if they think it's going to help their career, it's going to help their campaign, it's going to help them... 1.00

02:44:36.000 Get over on their rivals. 0.99

02:44:38.000 There's a lot of that going on.

02:44:39.000 And I think that's one of the reasons why Trump ran in the first place is because he was on the other side of that.

02:44:44.000 Like, he had to pay the Clintons to come to his wedding. 1.00

02:44:46.000 You know, it's that kind of shit. 1.00

02:44:48.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:44:48.000 Was it his wedding or is it someone else's wedding? 1.00

02:44:51.000 Is it his daughter's wedding?

02:44:53.000 What you need to know about the John Durham filing that Trump world is fuming over.

02:44:58.000 And what is this?

02:45:00.000 I'm trying to ask if this is even what you were talking about so we can dig into the right story.

02:45:04.000 Yeah, if it's the Durham filing.

02:45:05.000 So even looking into this now, depending on what link I click, it's...

02:45:10.000 What lick you click? 0.98

02:45:11.000 Link, I click.

02:45:12.000 It's filled with bias, so like...

02:45:14.000 Okay, yeah.

02:45:15.000 Well, this is definitely a biased website.

02:45:18.000 Yeah, it's just crazy.

02:45:19.000 They're biased towards things being inflamed, you know?

02:45:23.000 So, where should I go then?

02:45:25.000 That's a good question.

02:45:25.000 Because I've typed in what has been proven.

02:45:28.000 Durham, yeah.

02:45:29.000 What's a good way to look at this?

02:45:31.000 None of them.

02:45:32.000 Some of them have to be accurate.

02:45:34.000 Do they?

02:45:35.000 What we know about the Durham probe, Hillary Clinton's responsibility for the Durham probe.

02:45:41.000 Who's going to have written that unbiased article to find?

02:45:44.000 I don't know.

02:45:45.000 Do you got anything that's going both ways?

02:45:48.000 I was starting to read through that, so I can, if you give me a minute.

02:45:51.000 Yeah, I just, yeah, I mean, it's just, I don't know, it's just so, like when you start looking at it.

02:45:56.000 It's dirty!

02:45:57.000 Like, that is Watergate, right?

02:45:59.000 Wasn't that Watergate?

02:46:00.000 They were spying.

02:46:02.000 That was the whole reason why Dick Nixon got out of office. 1.00

02:46:05.000 Because he was fucking spying. 0.99

02:46:07.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:46:08.000 You're not supposed to do that.

02:46:09.000 But now it's like, I don't know.

02:46:11.000 It's just like we talked about in those relationships.

02:46:14.000 Like, you know, you do something and then that, oh my gosh, I can't believe this happened.

02:46:19.000 Like, it's like the worst thing ever.

02:46:20.000 And then it just happens over and over and you kind of just get numb to it, right?

02:46:22.000 And it's like with politics now...

02:46:26.000 I don't know what you could do for it to be like, oh my gosh. 0.99

02:46:32.000 Can you imagine if Bill Clinton, if he got a blowjob today in the White House- It would be nothing. 0.99

02:46:42.000 He's not getting impeached. 0.99

02:46:44.000 No chance.

02:46:45.000 They would probably raise him up as a hero.

02:46:48.000 Yeah, they would come up with some reason why he was just a hypersexual individual who was tempted by his genetics and it's not his fault.

02:47:00.000 I got one thing that might already be a mistake.

02:47:04.000 There was a filing that happened last week that's gotten this back in the news.

02:47:09.000 When the initial spying happened on Trump, wasn't it because of the Obamas?

02:47:13.000 Obama was in office and they were spying on the candidate's I think that was the original part.

02:47:19.000 According to this, the New York Times says that they changed that.

02:47:24.000 I don't know who they, like the Trump team, I guess.

02:47:26.000 They were initially saying it was the Obamas, and now they're saying it was the Clintons team that was doing the spying.

02:47:32.000 Right, but maybe they thought it was the Obama.

02:47:34.000 They knew it was the Democrats, perhaps, and then we thought it was the people that were in power, and it turns out it's not the people in power.

02:47:41.000 It was Clinton because she was running against Trump. 1.00

02:47:43.000 I mean, that doesn't necessarily...

02:47:45.000 That doesn't make sense, though, because that means that she's in control of the FBI or whoever's doing that.

02:47:50.000 Well, she was a secretary. 1.00

02:47:51.000 She wasn't just a candidate.

02:47:53.000 She was.

02:47:53.000 She wasn't.

02:47:54.000 She was a secretary of state.

02:47:55.000 You have to give that up, though, to become the candidate.

02:47:58.000 Yeah, but the connections that she had with those people are, if she is the favorite to win the presidency, and she was, the connections that she had with those people.

02:48:09.000 The only question you got to ask is, in this whole thing, is do you think Obama knew?

02:48:15.000 Yeah.

02:48:15.000 I think he knows everything.

02:48:17.000 Well, of course. 0.98

02:48:17.000 But he also fucking hated the idea of Trump being president. 0.98

02:48:20.000 He thought Trump was, you know, a scoundrel. 1.00

02:48:23.000 You remember that fucking White House press conference dinner? 1.00

02:48:26.000 It was kind of hilarious where he says to Trump, I'm one thing you'll never be. 0.99

02:48:30.000 President of the United States.

02:48:31.000 Like, oh my God, you got it in that guy's craw.

02:48:34.000 That's probably why he became the president.

02:48:36.000 Oh, for sure. 1.00

02:48:37.000 Probably stuck in his fucking head. 1.00

02:48:38.000 He's like, I'll show you, motherfucker. 1.00

02:48:41.000 The thing that scares me is that whether you like Trump or hate him, he polarizes the country. 1.00

02:48:49.000 He's not a Republican like Ron DeSantis.

02:48:53.000 I think there's a lot of people who don't like Ron DeSantis, but he's not polarizing the way Trump is. 0.65

02:48:58.000 I mean, he's still polarizing, but people don't fucking hate him in the same way that they hate Trump, I don't think. 0.90

02:49:05.000 I mean, Trump was exhausting. 0.94

02:49:07.000 Yeah.

02:49:08.000 And it's constantly in arguments and fights with people and going after them and Rosie O'Donnell and Girls He Banged and all the crazy things to concentrate on.

02:49:17.000 You know?

02:49:18.000 It's like, God, man.

02:49:19.000 I mean...

02:49:20.000 Stuff he said.

02:49:22.000 Oh my god, it was hilarious. 0.99

02:49:23.000 If he wasn't the president, and he wasn't a real threat, that's the thing that really fucked him. 0.99

02:49:29.000 Because before that, the guy was loved. 0.99

02:49:32.000 He was crazy, and a lot of people hated him, but for the most part, he was loved.

02:49:38.000 Yeah, I mean, I'll say this, like, under Trump, I... I felt like the country was safe.

02:49:49.000 I wish I knew that was true.

02:49:51.000 I mean, I don't know if it's true or not, but for me, I felt like...

02:49:55.000 You know what?

02:49:58.000 I'll say this.

02:49:58.000 I think just the unknown factor about him made America safer because enemies did not want to even mess with him.

02:50:05.000 Well, he's definitely wild.

02:50:06.000 The wild card factor.

02:50:07.000 To Kim Jong-un, he called him Little Rocket Man.

02:50:11.000 He said, we have a nuclear button, too, and our nuclear buttons are way better.

02:50:14.000 Here's the other side, I guess.

02:50:16.000 What does it say?

02:50:17.000 Pavlich, this is The Hill.

02:50:18.000 Katie Pavlich says, it was always spying.

02:50:22.000 So what does this mean here?

02:50:24.000 It kind of just goes into the story about what starts at the beginning.

02:50:27.000 I think, like, April 10th, 2019. This is what was said.

02:50:33.000 It goes into...

02:50:35.000 Okay, here's the quote here.

02:50:36.000 It says, for the same reason we're worried about foreign influence in elections, we want to make sure that during the elections, I think spying on a political campaign is a big deal.

02:50:47.000 It's a big deal, Barr testified.

02:50:49.000 Spying did occur.

02:50:50.000 Yes, I think spying did occur.

02:50:52.000 The question is whether it was predicated, adequately predicated.

02:50:57.000 I'm not suggesting it wasn't adequately predicated, but I need to explore that.

02:51:03.000 I think it's my obligation.

02:51:04.000 Congress is usually very concerned about intelligence agencies and law enforcement agencies staying in their proper lane, and I want to make sure that that happened.

02:51:13.000 We have a lot of rules about that. 0.97

02:51:15.000 Well, we know that a lot of the intelligence agencies did not fucking like Trump, and he went to war with those people, which is insane. 1.00

02:51:23.000 It's just fucked. 1.00

02:51:25.000 We're fucked. 1.00

02:51:25.000 It's a lot of mess. 1.00

02:51:26.000 We're fucked? 1.00

02:51:27.000 It's a lot of mess. 1.00

02:51:28.000 It's a lot of mess.

02:51:29.000 And then where are we going to be in 2024?

02:51:31.000 Excuse me, 2024, because he's running again.

02:51:34.000 So here we are, 2022. You really think he's going to run again?

02:51:37.000 100%.

02:51:38.000 Yeah, I think so.

02:51:39.000 Don't you think so?

02:51:40.000 He just announced it at CPAC. I guess.

02:51:42.000 Nothing surprises.

02:51:44.000 What would surprise you?

02:51:47.000 Tomorrow, you wake up.

02:51:49.000 What could surprise you at this point?

02:51:50.000 That's a good question.

02:51:52.000 Yeah.

02:51:53.000 That's a good question.

02:51:54.000 Everything's so...

02:51:55.000 Aliens.

02:51:56.000 Would that really surprise you?

02:51:58.000 Yes.

02:51:58.000 No.

02:51:59.000 That would be a surprise.

02:52:00.000 You don't think...

02:52:00.000 I'd be like, wow.

02:52:02.000 But, I mean, I wouldn't even know whether I'd believe it. 1.00

02:52:04.000 Because, like, if you really wanted to fuck with people... 0.99

02:52:07.000 Look, I think that a lot of what we're looking at when we're looking at UFOs... 0.99

02:52:11.000 And I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

02:52:13.000 I think a lot of it is these classified government projects.

02:52:18.000 I think they have...

02:52:20.000 They probably have classified propulsion systems that maybe don't even use people. 0.83

02:52:24.000 They're probably just drones.

02:52:25.000 But I think they have capabilities that we don't understand yet in terms of the general public.

02:52:32.000 And they've been working on these sort of different types of propulsion, magnetic propulsion systems.

02:52:36.000 These have been theoretical for a long time.

02:52:38.000 And then this thing that Bob Lazar supposedly worked on way back in the late 80s at Area S-4, the way he described it is exactly the way these things are moving, the way that you see these crafts move, like the one that was observed by Commander David Fravor,

02:52:55.000 the one that was observed by a lot of these other guys, these Air Force folks that are catching these objects moving at these insane rates of speed.

02:53:05.000 Underwater.

02:53:06.000 Yeah, they're going from ground to water, from sky to water rather. 0.98

02:53:10.000 Yeah, they don't know what the fuck is going on. 0.59

02:53:12.000 But if they're working on these things, it kind of makes sense. 0.95

02:53:16.000 Because they're always happening.

02:53:18.000 Like this one, here's one. 0.99

02:53:19.000 The fucking one that was in San Diego, why would it be in San Diego? 0.99

02:53:23.000 Why wouldn't it be? 1.00

02:53:24.000 That's where all the fucking military bases are. 0.99

02:53:26.000 There's so much military in San Diego. 0.99

02:53:28.000 If you were going to work on some top secret classified shit, You'd have to be near bases, right? 0.98

02:53:35.000 Wouldn't you... 0.98

02:53:36.000 You'd want to do it there.

02:53:37.000 That's where they would do it.

02:53:39.000 Yeah, I mean, I just...

02:53:40.000 Yeah, I don't know.

02:53:41.000 I mean, what if...

02:53:42.000 I don't know.

02:53:43.000 What if...

02:53:44.000 What if we're all, like...

02:53:46.000 What if we're all getting played?

02:53:48.000 Like, what if, like...

02:53:50.000 What if, like...

02:53:51.000 What if the aliens are doing all this to us?

02:53:55.000 I don't think that's happening. 1.00

02:53:57.000 I think we're too stupid. 1.00

02:53:59.000 I think it's pretty clear that we're doing it to ourselves through corruption. 1.00

02:54:02.000 I mean, and what we've done in the United States is we have allowed money to get into politics.

02:54:07.000 We've allowed money to get into- To get in our military.

02:54:09.000 Yes, yes, yes, yes.

02:54:11.000 A lot of it.

02:54:12.000 I mean, that was what Eisenhower warned about when he was leaving office.

02:54:14.000 I mean, that speech, when he warns about the dangers of the military-industrial complex, that is a terrifying speech, because that was a guy who knew.

02:54:23.000 He knew exactly what was going on behind the scenes, and he chose to take the time, when he's leaving office, to warn about a machine that wants to go to war, that wants to find reasons to go to war to profit, and that we know that that's real.

02:54:39.000 That's why we stayed in Afghanistan and Iraq so long.

02:54:42.000 I'm sure.

02:54:44.000 I'm sure it had a factor, right?

02:54:46.000 Yeah.

02:54:47.000 And then there's people that think we should have stayed there indefinitely.

02:54:50.000 You don't think for a second, like, yeah, for why?

02:54:53.000 Like, why?

02:54:53.000 Like, if the Taliban had thought that we were going to come occupy them for 20 years, they would have gave over Osama bin Laden on September 12th.

02:55:04.000 You think so?

02:55:05.000 Yeah, they didn't want us there.

02:55:07.000 You know what I mean?

02:55:07.000 Like, they could have kept going on about business as usual.

02:55:10.000 And, you know, I just...

02:55:12.000 No, I mean, we were there.

02:55:13.000 And, you know, even though this administration completely fucked this whole pullout up, every other administration had the same opportunity to pull us out.

02:55:24.000 But they didn't.

02:55:25.000 Right.

02:55:26.000 I think they were warned that this is how it was going to go down, right?

02:55:29.000 Yeah.

02:55:29.000 And so it's like, I'm glad we're out.

02:55:32.000 I'm glad we're out.

02:55:33.000 I mean...

02:55:33.000 Would have been nice if we didn't give them all those weapons, though, right?

02:55:36.000 Well, why do you think we left them there?

02:55:38.000 Because then we've got to build more.

02:55:41.000 Ooh.

02:55:42.000 Come on.

02:55:43.000 Come on.

02:55:43.000 Are you kidding me?

02:55:45.000 I honestly didn't even think of that.

02:55:48.000 Of course.

02:55:50.000 Of course.

02:55:51.000 Guess what?

02:55:52.000 All these weapon systems, all this military gear, well, now we're just going to have to build the next gen because they've got it now, right?

02:56:01.000 Oof.

02:56:03.000 That's like a modern version of that Schmedley Butler.

02:56:06.000 You know that piece that that guy wrote, War is a Racket?

02:56:11.000 Did you ever read that?

02:56:13.000 Schmedley Butler, I think he was a Medal of Honor recipient.

02:56:16.000 Yeah, and it was in the 1930s, I believe.

02:56:20.000 This was after World War I. I think it was 1933 he wrote this.

02:56:24.000 It was called War is a Racket.

02:56:26.000 And this is a guy that...

02:56:28.000 Had served overseas and thought what he was doing, like you could pull it up, Jamie, because it's kind of interesting.

02:56:35.000 He was saying that what he thought he was doing was just protecting the world for bankers and different beings.

02:56:42.000 War is a racket.

02:56:44.000 1935, Smedley Butler.

02:56:46.000 He got two Medal of Honors.

02:56:48.000 Yeah.

02:56:48.000 Look at that dude, he's a badass.

02:56:49.000 Let's give this speech about, let's see if you can find, it's not a long thing to read.

02:56:58.000 But it's essentially...

02:56:59.000 I'm sure it would be in that Wikipedia at the top.

02:57:03.000 Yeah, it should be.

02:57:04.000 If you'll just go down to that.

02:57:05.000 It should be available to read.

02:57:07.000 Right.

02:57:08.000 Oh, yeah.

02:57:09.000 Well, essentially what he said, though, was that he realized...

02:57:13.000 Oh, here it goes.

02:57:14.000 Perfect.

02:57:15.000 War is a racket.

02:57:17.000 It always has been.

02:57:18.000 It's possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious.

02:57:22.000 It is the only one international in scope.

02:57:25.000 It is the only one in which profits are reckoned in dollars and losses in lives.

02:57:31.000 A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people only a small inside group knows what it's about it's conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the very many Out of war,

02:57:49.000 a few people make huge fortunes.

02:57:51.000 He said, For the benefit of Wall Street.

02:58:12.000 The record of racketeering is long.

02:58:15.000 I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1909 to 1912. Where have I heard that name before?

02:58:28.000 I bought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar business, interest rather, in 1916. In China, I helped see to it that standard oil went its way unmolested.

02:58:41.000 I mean, this is, he was writing about this in the 1930s, almost 100 years ago.

02:58:47.000 We've seen a lot of rackets lately.

02:58:50.000 Yeah.

02:58:51.000 Yeah, that's why I remember reading that.

02:58:54.000 I think the first time I read it was in the 90s.

02:58:56.000 I was like, wow, this is crazy.

02:58:58.000 This guy wrote about this in the 1930s.

02:59:02.000 And this won't be fixed until our leaders can't be...

02:59:05.000 Like, the leaders of this country, the servants, cannot...

02:59:09.000 They don't go up there and become richer when they come home.

02:59:14.000 And all of them do.

02:59:15.000 All of them do.

02:59:16.000 Like, you should not be able to have either...

02:59:19.000 Blind trust is the lenient...

02:59:22.000 Part of it when you have stocks and you're in those positions.

02:59:26.000 But I don't think you should be able to have stocks.

02:59:29.000 You should have to go up there and purely you're here to serve. 0.99

02:59:36.000 Well, you get a lot less people wanting that fucking job. 0.97

02:59:39.000 Well, I mean, but you also might be able to get more relevant people to what the everyday citizen lives. 0.98

02:59:44.000 I think the real problem is once it's already established the way it is now, where there is a lot of financial influence, where they do contribute to the campaigns, where they do have special interest groups, where they do have these people that help them get into office and they're beholden to them once they get in there.

02:59:59.000 And then you have people like Nancy Pelosi that are worth hundreds of millions of dollars and they make 200 grand a year. 0.91

03:00:04.000 And you're like, what? 0.99

03:00:06.000 But she makes that money based off the information she fucking knows. 1.00

03:00:12.000 Which is crazy. 1.00

03:00:13.000 Which is crazy.

03:00:14.000 But it's just like Obamacare was a perfect example.

03:00:18.000 Everybody else was forced to get it, except them.

03:00:22.000 Like, it's crazy.

03:00:24.000 It's crazy that, you know, that they can have information. 0.99

03:00:28.000 So the shit that they can do, they're not held accountable if they know inside. 0.95

03:00:32.000 Like, go look at the, I did a podcast on the American Party, or me and Dan did a podcast on the American Party podcast about trading within, you know, the house and all that. 0.99

03:00:43.000 Oh, you see the list of all the people that trade?

03:00:45.000 It's like, wow.

03:00:46.000 And then what you look at is, is you look at like, oh, they invested in Raytheon or whatever, and then they knew that three days later they were going to vote on a contract that was going to go to them.

03:00:56.000 And it jumps their profits up, raises their stock price up.

03:00:59.000 It's crazy.

03:01:00.000 It's crazy that it's legal.

03:01:01.000 It's crazy it's legal because if you were a person on Wall Street and you did something like that...

03:01:05.000 You go to jail.

03:01:06.000 You're going to jail.

03:01:07.000 I know.

03:01:07.000 It's nuts.

03:01:08.000 How?

03:01:08.000 It's crazy loophole.

03:01:09.000 But it's like you were talking about before that we're just accustomed to it.

03:01:13.000 We get numb to it.

03:01:14.000 Like, oh, what are you going to do?

03:01:15.000 And that's what they rely on.

03:01:19.000 It's crazy that it's okay.

03:01:22.000 But at what point do you hold them accountable?

03:01:26.000 That's the hard part.

03:01:27.000 What is it going to take for it to change?

03:01:30.000 And how is it going to change?

03:01:32.000 And what's going to be the method?

03:01:33.000 Well, you start by You start by first off being a good individual and doing the right thing.

03:01:41.000 And then you do that in your home.

03:01:43.000 And you start raising good, decent, moral children.

03:01:47.000 And then you expand that.

03:01:49.000 That expands the community.

03:01:50.000 And then it just expands.

03:01:51.000 That's the only way to fix it.

03:01:53.000 You don't fix it.

03:01:54.000 You can't fix it by going up there and a coop or whatever.

03:01:58.000 You have to fix everybody.

03:01:59.000 You have to start with yourself.

03:02:01.000 Yeah.

03:02:03.000 And The Way Forward.

03:02:04.000 On that, The Way Forward.

03:02:05.000 The book, it's out today, right now.

03:02:08.000 Robert O'Neill, Dakota Meyer. 1.00

03:02:09.000 Dakota, you're a bad motherfucker. 1.00

03:02:11.000 Thanks, man. 1.00

03:02:11.000 I appreciate you, brother. 1.00

03:02:11.000 It's good seeing you. 1.00

03:02:12.000 Good seeing you, too.

03:02:13.000 All right.

03:02:13.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - March 02, 2022

Joe Rogan Experience #1787 - Dakota Meyer

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