The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1814 - Radio Rahim

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

00:00:12.000 Oh yeah, and last time, I guess I talk really loud, apparently.

00:00:16.000 No, you don't.

00:00:17.000 Oh, you read comments.

00:00:18.000 Yeah.

00:00:18.000 Don't read comments.

00:00:19.000 Don't read comments.

00:00:20.000 Don't read comments.

00:00:21.000 You told me that last time.

00:00:23.000 Never read comments.

00:00:24.000 I told Don L. When Don L. and I did a podcast with the RZA, it was so much fun.

00:00:31.000 After it was over, I gave him a big hug.

00:00:32.000 I said, that was fun.

00:00:33.000 Don't read the comments.

00:00:35.000 And he went on, like, for weeks, for weeks, he was, like, on this, like, defensive campaign.

00:00:42.000 But Dono, maybe he should read a few of the comments.

00:00:47.000 I don't think so.

00:00:49.000 I don't think so.

00:00:50.000 I like him perfectly flawed.

00:00:52.000 I like him as he is.

00:00:53.000 Yeah, that's a good way to describe it.

00:00:55.000 I don't want him to change at all.

00:00:57.000 I mean, I'd like him to grow and get better as a human being, but that whole interrupting thing that he does, that's great, man.

00:01:05.000 That's him.

00:01:06.000 I'm a very sensitive guy, though.

00:01:08.000 I need to know what...

00:01:10.000 I've said how that affects people.

00:01:13.000 You're in the wrong business.

00:01:14.000 If you're a sensitive guy, you're in the wrong business. 1.00

00:01:17.000 Fuck, you gotta get out of those comments. 1.00

00:01:19.000 Don't read them. 1.00

00:01:19.000 If they said that you were too loud, that means one fucking person thought you were too loud, and they've put it out there, and then another person reads that and goes, yeah, he's too loud. 1.00

00:01:28.000 I was like, am I too loud? 0.96

00:01:29.000 No, you're not too loud.

00:01:30.000 You're not too loud.

00:01:32.000 That's not real.

00:01:33.000 Do you not go into your own comment section on Instagram?

00:01:36.000 Like, never?

00:01:37.000 It is the Wild West in there.

00:01:40.000 And every check mark, every legitimate celebrity, everybody's trying to beat each other, not just to be the first to comment on anything you post, but to have the smartest quip or the funniest one-liner.

00:01:54.000 Well, that's good.

00:01:55.000 It's a talent show.

00:01:56.000 Well, that's good.

00:01:57.000 Because you get 100 followers from having one solid comment on a Rogan post.

00:02:04.000 That's funny.

00:02:05.000 The people actually do that.

00:02:06.000 They try to get followers from...

00:02:08.000 Look, I probably would do that too if I didn't have a lot of followers.

00:02:11.000 I'm not saying that because I'm above it.

00:02:13.000 I'm in there too.

00:02:15.000 What's a good one-liner for this?

00:02:17.000 Well, it is kind of a thing on YouTube, right?

00:02:20.000 When I read YouTube comments on other people, I do read them on other people's videos, but it is funny how people, they develop a little community, they fuck with each other and go back and forth, and they...

00:02:31.000 You know, and then you let go, oh, this guy always has funny things to say, and you read his comment. 0.56

00:02:35.000 And they dogpile on you.

00:02:37.000 Oh, they dogpile.

00:02:38.000 Yeah.

00:02:39.000 They definitely dogpile.

00:02:40.000 That's why it's...

00:02:40.000 But it's like, that's the kind of people that are doing that.

00:02:44.000 The kind of people that are leaving a lot of comments are the kind of people that complain a lot.

00:02:48.000 Like, you don't want...

00:02:49.000 And they're going to be more prevalent, because there's more of them.

00:02:53.000 So it's a biased sample group.

00:02:55.000 It'll give you a distorted perception of what the actual show was like.

00:02:59.000 People who...

00:03:00.000 People want to be heard.

00:03:01.000 They want to have their own say on things that really have nothing to do with them at all.

00:03:06.000 It's just their moment to grab a little spotlight.

00:03:08.000 People like to talk.

00:03:09.000 And also, you've got to always take into consideration, there's a lot of people out there that are doing this while they work because they hate their job. 0.99

00:03:16.000 Their job sucks. 1.00

00:03:17.000 So they just complain about shit. 1.00

00:03:19.000 Fuck this dude. 1.00

00:03:20.000 And that's fun to say. 1.00

00:03:21.000 Fun to say, fuck that guy. 1.00

00:03:23.000 He talks too much. 1.00

00:03:24.000 He's too loud.

00:03:26.000 He's not funny.

00:03:27.000 He's that.

00:03:31.000 You need some feedback, but lucky as a comic, you get feedback from audiences, and I do audit myself.

00:03:39.000 I do think about my own self, like what I do, if it's too loud or too this or too dumb or not funny or whatever.

00:03:45.000 I'm my worst critic, so I don't need other critics.

00:03:48.000 And you performing in front of an audience on a regular basis, you have like real-time reaction.

00:03:53.000 Person doesn't have an opportunity to say he's not funny after he's finished laughing.

00:03:57.000 Right, right. 0.99

00:03:58.000 Too late to bullshit. 0.99

00:03:59.000 Yeah, that's a problem. 0.99

00:04:01.000 It's just, it's like, you know, we're just navigating this whole new world of social media.

00:04:06.000 It's weird.

00:04:07.000 It's new.

00:04:09.000 It's not like our grandparents did it, and boy, when you get on Twitter, I'll tell you what happened to me when I got on Twitter.

00:04:16.000 No, they don't have any data.

00:04:18.000 No one knows.

00:04:19.000 Well, we're in the moment, I think, that we're learning.

00:04:22.000 Yeah.

00:04:23.000 And we're learning a real valuable lesson right now as to how that, what Chappelle likes to call, not a real place, Twitter, affects our real lives.

00:04:35.000 Like, this line is being blurred between what's happening online and what's happening in real life.

00:04:42.000 You know, I... You weren't with Dave at the Hollywood Bowl, correct?

00:04:46.000 Yeah, this is what I'm saying.

00:04:47.000 We'd probably be remiss if we didn't address that off the top.

00:04:51.000 Right.

00:04:52.000 Because I'm, what, 36 hours removed from that, like one sleep away from what, in the moment, I recognize as an assassination attempt on my best friend.

00:05:03.000 Right.

00:05:04.000 Like, we get...

00:05:05.000 We have the...

00:05:06.000 Incredible good fortune to be able to be laughing about it now and there's the memes and everybody is making fun of how this guy got broken up into a pretzel and Dave's good reflexes and all that only is entertaining because we don't have to have an inconsolable moment of grief.

00:05:30.000 Which was one thought in this guy's mind away from that being the reality today, right? 0.98

00:05:36.000 Yeah, I mean well, I think the guy was like legitimately mentally ill But also the security of the Hollywood Bowl sucks every dick that's ever walked the face of the earth not the dicks walk But the fact that you let that guy apparently people were saying to security hey this guy passed the barrier and Like, 0.99

00:05:55.000 he got through the barrier and they ignored him. 0.99

00:05:57.000 They were just watching the show.

00:05:59.000 And then he literally made a run for it. 0.99

00:06:01.000 Their security is fucking terrible. 0.99

00:06:03.000 The fact that that guy got to where he got is terrible. 0.99

00:06:06.000 But that's the case with a lot of venues, man.

00:06:09.000 A lot of venues we do, we look around.

00:06:11.000 We were in Jacksonville. 1.00

00:06:12.000 There was a fucking guy that was sleeping. 1.00

00:06:15.000 Sleeping. 1.00

00:06:15.000 Security during the show. 1.00

00:06:17.000 They're not paying attention. 1.00

00:06:18.000 They're not paying attention to shit. 1.00

00:06:19.000 It just happens. 1.00

00:06:20.000 Security at a venue is most likely minimum wage workers.

00:06:25.000 Not that the amount of money that you're being paid necessarily indicates how seriously you take your job, but it's going to be hard to get...

00:06:34.000 50 people work in one venue at minimum wage that take their job incredibly seriously or have gone through some extensive training to be qualified for that job.

00:06:43.000 They definitely get paid more than minimum wage, but the point is like they should hire cops. 0.98

00:06:47.000 They should have off-duty police.

00:06:49.000 They should have people that are near the stage. 0.83

00:06:52.000 Especially when it's Dave after all that shit that went down with Netflix and just I don't know what kind of assessments they do about people and like threats and stuff like that but that guy actually had made a tweet saying Dave Chappelle you're next after Will Smith got slapped or excuse me after Chris Rock got slapped by Will Smith.

00:07:11.000 I don't know that there's any level of security that insulate you from real life. 0.85

00:07:17.000 That's true.

00:07:18.000 A guy like that who we can't say his name. 0.99

00:07:21.000 I don't even want to reference this motherfucker because it's the kind of attention that they want. 1.00

00:07:27.000 Like part of the idea of a person like that is that now they become something. 0.99

00:07:33.000 They become special.

00:07:34.000 Yeah.

00:07:34.000 For a moment, we want to look at their videos.

00:07:39.000 We want to look at their tweets.

00:07:40.000 We want to figure out who this guy is and speak their name.

00:07:43.000 And for him, that is everything.

00:07:45.000 That's worth everything that happened.

00:07:47.000 But for us...

00:07:51.000 The idea that anybody in this world can get at you, that any thought that somebody has in their head can change literally the course of history and take the people from us that we love.

00:08:03.000 They don't have to be famous.

00:08:04.000 They don't have to be of great impact to the entire world.

00:08:07.000 But I've lost loved ones.

00:08:09.000 I know you've lost loved ones.

00:08:13.000 Seeing in that moment that I might Actually have lost my best friend on the world stage in front of everybody on cameras all of us there Thinking that we could protect them all of us there thinking well it couldn't possibly Be a guy jumping a barrier jumping on stage with a clean run of Dave with the weapon with a knife that's shaped like a fucking gun That's inconceivable that couldn't possibly happen right if it can happen there It didn't happen anywhere.

00:08:40.000 Well, not only that, there's a lot of video of it. 0.97

00:08:43.000 What happened to those fucking cell phones being in a bag? 0.99

00:08:45.000 I mean... 1.00

00:08:46.000 A lot of people had knives.

00:08:48.000 A lot of other people had knives, too. 1.00

00:08:49.000 They cut those fucking bags open. 0.99

00:08:51.000 They need metal detectors at Dave shows now. 1.00

00:08:53.000 I'm sure they're going to ramp up things now.

00:08:55.000 We have metal detectors.

00:08:56.000 What?

00:08:56.000 That guy went through a metal detector with a knife?

00:08:58.000 If he came through the normal order of security, then he had to walk through a metal detector.

00:09:02.000 How did he even get a ticket?

00:09:03.000 He was a homeless guy.

00:09:05.000 I mean, you know, these questions are the kind of things that will twist you in knots and keep you tossing and turning all night.

00:09:12.000 The broader emotion I'm struggling with is the reality that we have to, like, have a bit more gratitude for the people that we have on this planet, in our lives,

00:09:28.000 in our sphere of entertainment and influence, While they're here.

00:09:33.000 Like, I don't want to be posting about how much, oh, we all love Dave and what we missed, you know, what we could have said, and I don't need a Nipsey Russell moment, you know what I mean, or Nipsey Hussle.

00:09:45.000 Right. 1.00

00:09:47.000 What I need is people to, like, just think for a minute about how we approach the people, even with whom we disagree, with this veil of violence, with this veil of like, yeah, like, you know, fuck that guy is one thing, but kill that guy is another thing. 1.00

00:10:02.000 Stop that guy. 0.96

00:10:04.000 Somehow, removing that guy from the planet removes the idea that we don't like that that person has, or whatever we disagree with must be silenced forever.

00:10:13.000 That is what you were saying earlier about Twitter spilling over into real life.

00:10:16.000 That's what I'm talking about.

00:10:18.000 The attitude that people take when they're removed from social cues, from looking in a person's eyes, from emotions, when you're angry about a person, that's one of the weird things that social media does.

00:10:33.000 It removes you from humanity because you're not really talking to a person.

00:10:35.000 You're just typing letters.

00:10:37.000 You don't see the person reading them.

00:10:39.000 You hope that they feel bad because it's fun, but you don't even know them.

00:10:43.000 You can interact with someone.

00:10:45.000 So when you could say, Chappelle, you're next.

00:10:47.000 You could say that, but if you were right in front of them and you said, Chappelle, you're next.

00:10:52.000 He goes, what did I do?

00:10:53.000 And you're like, well, you said this.

00:10:55.000 He goes, I never said that.

00:10:57.000 And then now you're having a conversation.

00:10:59.000 He's like, you're anti-trans.

00:11:00.000 He goes, I am not anti-trans.

00:11:02.000 And then you have this conversation, and all of a sudden, you realize it's just two human beings.

00:11:05.000 But instead of that, you've got, Chappelle, you're next, in a tweet. 0.99

00:11:09.000 And then this motherfucker, living in this weird, disconnected world, decides he's actually going to make a physical, violent move. 0.99

00:11:18.000 And there's so much of that, that you could ignore somebody saying, Dave, you're next. 0.99

00:11:23.000 Because there might be a thousand people saying that, but the one guy who actually means it...

00:11:27.000 Right.

00:11:27.000 Could change all of our lives forever.

00:11:29.000 So instead of trying to find that needle in the haystack or hoping that the Hollywood Bowl security is on top of their game, or to be fair, all of us who were there backstage in the audience, side stage, who love him, could get there in the moment and save him from impending doom.

00:11:47.000 What if we just police each other in the public space?

00:11:51.000 What if we don't accept that on social media from our peers, from each other? 0.99

00:11:55.000 Somebody jumps on and says some shit like that. 0.98

00:11:58.000 We can't wait till he's on stage at the Hollywood Bowl to be like, hey man, maybe we should take a look at that guy. 0.99

00:12:03.000 Yeah, but you're talking about, you're trying to manage at scale amongst hundreds of millions of people if you're talking about that.

00:12:10.000 Like the amount of people that are interacting with people online, within every minute of every day, there's just millions.

00:12:17.000 It's just constantly.

00:12:18.000 There's no way anybody could ever manage that.

00:12:21.000 But you can manage yourself.

00:12:22.000 Yes, you can manage yourself. 0.97

00:12:24.000 But he's a homeless person who's got mental illness problems and black nail polish, and he calls himself a they-them. 1.00

00:12:30.000 The dumbest fucking weapon ever, by the way. 1.00

00:12:33.000 It's a fake gun that's a knife. 1.00

00:12:35.000 A smart weapon is a fake knife that's a gun.

00:12:38.000 That's smart, because it looks like a knife.

00:12:40.000 Ah, you can't get me.

00:12:41.000 You're over there.

00:12:42.000 Oh, yeah?

00:12:42.000 Bang.

00:12:43.000 That's a smart weapon.

00:12:44.000 My point is to make that guy stand out more as an anomaly than a casual, normal comment you might see on anybody's page at any time.

00:12:52.000 Well, he's more of an anomaly.

00:12:54.000 It's just there's a lot of anomalies when you're dealing with hundreds of millions of people that are tweeting all day long every day. 0.99

00:13:00.000 It's just, the discourse in this country is so fucking poison. 0.98

00:13:04.000 It's weird. 0.98

00:13:06.000 There's so many people fighting back and forth in this way where they're disagreeing in text. 0.99

00:13:11.000 You know, it's just a shit way to communicate with people. 0.99

00:13:14.000 Yeah, and as you said, it removes the humanity from it. 0.99

00:13:17.000 Completely.

00:13:18.000 Yeah, I see this person entirely as a thought.

00:13:21.000 Or this one comment he made or a joke that he made that I thought went too far, I didn't like it.

00:13:26.000 And now all this, everything that I feel about that moment or that comment is heaped upon this actual human person.

00:13:34.000 Yeah.

00:13:35.000 Yeah, it's a mess. 1.00

00:13:38.000 It's a fucking mess. 1.00

00:13:39.000 That turmeric coffee gets in your throat, right? 1.00

00:13:41.000 Ahem.

00:13:43.000 We were talking before this podcast about your former cigarette habit.

00:13:47.000 You were two packs a day?

00:13:49.000 Two packs a day, Joe.

00:13:51.000 And I couldn't put it down until I realized that, you know, smokers are, it's a routine thing also.

00:13:59.000 So my thing was I would have two cigarettes left in the pack At the end of every night, so in the morning, before you have that first, like, you know, pee even sometimes, you gotta have that first cigarette.

00:14:13.000 Like, that's the start of the day.

00:14:14.000 How did you quit?

00:14:16.000 Phase withdrawal.

00:14:17.000 Phase withdrawal.

00:14:18.000 That's what I call it.

00:14:19.000 Right.

00:14:19.000 So what I would do is, for instance, those moments where you need the cigarette, like right after you eat, right before you go to the bathroom first thing in the morning, I would take one of those elements away.

00:14:32.000 Like, okay, I'm still smoking.

00:14:33.000 I'm still going to enjoy as many cigarettes as I want.

00:14:37.000 I'm going to have breakfast first.

00:14:40.000 I'm just not going to have that first cigarette in the morning before I eat.

00:14:43.000 And then the rest of the day is carte blanche, whatever I want to do.

00:14:47.000 And this is your idea?

00:14:48.000 Yeah.

00:14:50.000 I've tried the cold turkey.

00:14:52.000 I've tried like, oh, I'm just not going to smoke anymore.

00:14:54.000 It doesn't work.

00:14:55.000 But what did work was finding spots, just spots, when you're not allowing yourself to smoke and giving yourself free range the rest of the time.

00:15:03.000 And the more spots you remove, the less smoking you actually do.

00:15:07.000 And you hold to that and hold to that.

00:15:09.000 And after a while, you've phased yourself out enough where then you can kick maybe six or seven cigarettes a day instead of 20. You know what I mean?

00:15:19.000 And so when you got down to six or seven cigarettes a day, then you went cold turkey?

00:15:24.000 Yeah, then it's just like, then you've got some discipline.

00:15:26.000 That's smart.

00:15:27.000 That's a smart way to do it because I think they say that that's the smartest way to do alcohol unless you do it in a medical setting because alcohol is one of the rare drugs that when you kick it, it can actually kill you.

00:15:39.000 You become so dependent upon alcohol that your body, if you're an alcoholic, like a severe alcoholic, your body needs alcohol to function.

00:15:46.000 Same as benzodiazepines.

00:15:48.000 Benzodiazepines, Xanax and the like. 0.59

00:15:50.000 If you have a severe addiction to those and then you kick it, you'll die.

00:15:55.000 It's one of the rare drugs.

00:15:57.000 I've drank a lot in my day.

00:15:59.000 I've dabbled in other drugs.

00:16:01.000 The only thing I still have cravings...

00:16:04.000 I still drink, but not as heavily as I once did.

00:16:07.000 I haven't had a cigarette in 14 years.

00:16:09.000 I still get cravings.

00:16:11.000 Really?

00:16:11.000 Do you smoke weed?

00:16:12.000 No.

00:16:13.000 No?

00:16:13.000 No.

00:16:14.000 So you don't smoke weed, no cigarettes, no tobacco products at all, never dip? 1.00

00:16:19.000 Do you ever use those fucking... 0.99

00:16:22.000 Brandon Schaub was here last week. 1.00

00:16:23.000 He tried to get me to try those little pouches.

00:16:25.000 Right, that's coffee.

00:16:26.000 Yeah, it's the turmeric.

00:16:28.000 Is that what it is?

00:16:29.000 Like somebody's down there tickling my throat.

00:16:31.000 Yeah, like, ahem, it coats your throat.

00:16:32.000 It's really annoying.

00:16:33.000 I stopped doing it for a long time and then Laird Hamilton sent me another one of those coffee machines and I used it here and I'm like, goddammit, now I got that ahem again.

00:16:42.000 So I used to do a lot of things like in abundance, right?

00:16:46.000 Right.

00:16:46.000 So drinking now, I actually did the same thing with drinking because for a while in the pandemic we all slipped a little bit too deep into like whatever our comforts were.

00:16:58.000 And I was fortunate enough to be in an environment where I was very happy and energetic and we were up and we were doing things and producing stuff.

00:17:05.000 And, you know, alcohol is my elixir of choice.

00:17:08.000 So I went a little too far with it, right?

00:17:11.000 And it wasn't like, oh, you know what?

00:17:13.000 I drink too much and this isn't healthy and I need to get like, you know, a better mental state and I should be sober.

00:17:20.000 Bro, I started looking in the mirror and I could see alcohol in my face.

00:17:25.000 What did you see? 1.00

00:17:26.000 What the fuck? 1.00

00:17:26.000 I was getting like puffy face and baggy eyes and I was starting to look fucking old, like alcohol old. 1.00

00:17:34.000 Alcohol will fucking age the shit out of you. 0.99

00:17:37.000 I did not know that. 0.99

00:17:39.000 So my route to everything was just like vanity.

00:17:43.000 I was like, I can't.

00:17:44.000 We talked about that.

00:17:45.000 It was an incredible motivator.

00:17:46.000 During those days, man, when we were doing those shows at Stubbs, it was weird because it was like the world was still kind of shut down.

00:17:56.000 Everything was kind of shut down, but then we would have that COVID bubble and we'd all be hanging out backstage with no masks and celebrities would come back there and party with us and we were all drinking and having fun.

00:18:08.000 It felt really special.

00:18:10.000 It felt...

00:18:11.000 Because it wasn't just that it was fun.

00:18:14.000 It was fun when no one was having fun.

00:18:15.000 But it wasn't because we were being reckless or incredibly cavalier.

00:18:19.000 There's a regiment of testing and we did all the stuff so that we could have that freedom inside our space. 0.98

00:18:29.000 Yeah, not just testing, but we tested the entire fucking audience. 0.98

00:18:33.000 We tested everybody in the audience, we tested everybody backstage, and then there was a couple of knuckleheads that violated protocol and fucked it up for everybody. 0.99

00:18:41.000 It's interesting when that happened, when a couple people decided they're going to hang out with other people and do podcasts and shit, and then they got sick. 0.96

00:18:48.000 It's like, hey, what are you doing? 0.99

00:18:50.000 We had a fucking rule here. 0.99

00:18:52.000 Everybody gets tested. 0.99

00:18:53.000 You can't just show up on some random podcast without testing people.

00:18:56.000 And that's the thing.

00:18:57.000 You have to respect how much effort and attention, energy, money went into making sure that we could all feel safe and feel comfortable.

00:19:05.000 You go outside of that for your own personal advancement or your daily desire. 1.00

00:19:11.000 Well, you're being a real asshole. 1.00

00:19:13.000 That's not the fault of the infrastructure. 1.00

00:19:15.000 These guys put together something That was really difficult to do at the time.

00:19:20.000 It required that they pay very close attention to what the CDC was saying and how we could stop any kind of spread if somebody did go outside the bubble.

00:19:30.000 And so even though, granted, ultimately we all got COVID, we kept it at bay for very long and it didn't become like a super spreader where people outside of our little world got it.

00:19:40.000 We were able to recover and come back because they were so serious about But you guys got it because of a guy that violated.

00:19:47.000 Exactly.

00:19:47.000 Like, if that guy didn't do that, you would have never got it.

00:19:51.000 Well, you might have got it anyway.

00:19:52.000 We wouldn't have got it then, anyway.

00:19:54.000 That year.

00:19:54.000 Yeah, I got it going to an arena.

00:19:57.000 I was doing arenas by the time I got it.

00:19:59.000 It was like, listen.

00:20:00.000 Yeah, but you have a different crowd, Joe.

00:20:02.000 I was like, let's go.

00:20:03.000 Come on.

00:20:04.000 Enough is enough is enough.

00:20:06.000 Come on.

00:20:07.000 Let's see what happens.

00:20:10.000 I can't thank Dave Chappelle enough for making a space during that time for all of us to do our thing.

00:20:20.000 The podcast that is premiering today that I've been working on for two years, it's inception, like the beginning of it.

00:20:30.000 Was in Yellow Springs, Ohio during that summer camp.

00:20:34.000 I mean, it was March 20 when I got this deal with Luminary to do a show that followed me around the world as I covered boxing.

00:20:44.000 It was the perfect idea for me.

00:20:48.000 I was excited.

00:20:49.000 We signed the paperwork, everything.

00:20:51.000 Second week of March.

00:20:53.000 And needless to say, by the fourth week of March, there was no boxing world to follow me around in.

00:20:59.000 There was no fights that were gonna be able to be had.

00:21:04.000 Everybody's calendar was getting eliminated.

00:21:07.000 And I had this deal For a show that I clearly couldn't do and Dave created this space in Yellow Springs these shows that attracted like the brightest biggest stars from the comedy world and all these different industries and I decided like well it wasn't so much a decision as kind of an epiphany like what am I missing from the life I've been having My entire adult life,

00:21:33.000 since I was a teenager, I've been in a wildcard boxing gym.

00:21:36.000 I was shooting sparring sessions.

00:21:37.000 I was covering fights.

00:21:39.000 I've been talking to boxers. 0.55

00:21:40.000 That's what my life driving force has been about.

00:21:43.000 And in a matter of a month, that's just taken from me completely.

00:21:48.000 So what is it that I miss most?

00:21:51.000 What is it?

00:21:51.000 I had to start to do some introspection about what that part of my life meant.

00:21:56.000 And I realized it was about the fight In the fighter that I'm talking to with even though the context is boxing I think the thing that separates my interviews maybe from other ones is that In addition to speaking about the opponent in the ring,

00:22:12.000 I often take a look at what that person is hurtling internally, like what got them to this place to even be able to climb through the ropes and challenge for or defend a championship.

00:22:23.000 And the interesting ways that people get there is entirely part of what makes me fascinated about combat sports and athletes.

00:22:33.000 I'm from all walks of combat sports, but boxing is my passion, right?

00:22:39.000 So I ended up surrounded by friends And associates that were incredibly accomplished at all different walks of life.

00:22:49.000 A lot of them were comedians because Dave was putting on a comedy show.

00:22:51.000 But he attracts people from all over the world, all different kinds of disciplines.

00:22:57.000 And I said, you know, that fight that's in these boxers, these life hurdles, well, that exists in everybody.

00:23:05.000 And the people whose names we know, whose accomplishments we can list, Well, they've won their fight, or at least they're constantly besting whatever their hurdle is.

00:23:18.000 And I want to talk about it.

00:23:19.000 I want to learn about the fighting people outside the ring.

00:23:22.000 So because of what Dave did, because he was able to create this magnet of excellence in Yellow Springs, Ohio, I was able to sit down with these people, and they were so gracious to talk to me about that very same subject, the fight inside them.

00:23:36.000 And I created this show.

00:23:37.000 You'll love the title.

00:23:39.000 Till this day.

00:23:39.000 Yeah, we talked about it.

00:23:43.000 For people who don't know why till this day, it's interesting.

00:23:46.000 There's a very famous interview that you did with Deontay Wilder where you were trying to get Deontay to elaborate on things and he, for whatever reason, because he was upset and he was getting ready for a fight and fired up,

00:24:02.000 he had...

00:24:04.000 Decided that he was gonna, like, explain to you what it's like to struggle as a black man in America that till this day you're like, yeah, I know, I'm just trying to get you to talk!

00:24:15.000 And so he's like yelling at you that we're going to this to this day, and you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah!

00:24:22.000 You know, it's funny because now with this a bit longer view of it and the events that happened the other night, I got a lot of death threats from that. 0.88

00:24:32.000 You know, I joke about the celebrities and shit that were mad at me.

00:24:35.000 Wait a minute, you got death threats from that interview that you did with Deontay? 0.98

00:24:37.000 Oh, are you kidding me?

00:24:38.000 Really?

00:24:39.000 Yes, absolutely.

00:24:41.000 You know, I had to take that in stride because I didn't take it that seriously.

00:24:49.000 Right.

00:24:50.000 But...

00:24:51.000 To this day, I still get inboxed threats. 0.94

00:24:56.000 People took that moment to think that I was some kind of Uncle Tom or I was trying to pretend as though slavery didn't exist or something ridiculous like that.

00:25:07.000 It was so obvious that you were just trying to get him to expand on his feelings. 0.63

00:25:13.000 That's his face!

00:25:17.000 We talked about it the last time you were here, but that interview was a classic.

00:25:20.000 But for people who don't know, it's like now I'm the renowned Uncle Tom.

00:25:24.000 That one moment can define how somebody sees you forever.

00:25:30.000 It's not about me, right?

00:25:31.000 They hate whatever...

00:25:32.000 They believe in Uncle Tom represents to them.

00:25:35.000 And they think, okay, well in that moment, man, that guy, he is that. 0.99

00:25:39.000 So I am going to aim all my negativity and hatred and visceral fucking comments his way. 1.00

00:25:47.000 And it takes one moron. 1.00

00:25:50.000 That's not me. 1.00

00:25:52.000 Whatever this person's built up in his head about who I am or what I mean to him...

00:25:58.000 I have no idea that's happening.

00:26:00.000 Right.

00:26:08.000 How am I going to stop that?

00:26:09.000 How am I going to see that coming?

00:26:11.000 Yeah, that's the problem with the world we're living in.

00:26:13.000 So my last 36 hours, really, I've tried to subside the anger and certainly best the fear, but it's about gratitude.

00:26:21.000 It's like we can't take for granted anything.

00:26:23.000 I can't take you for granted.

00:26:25.000 I think I made a post when I got a job at Probellum.

00:26:31.000 Which is a huge moment in my career, right?

00:26:33.000 I got to be the in-the-ring interviewer post-fight.

00:26:38.000 As I've said, the way you do it is a beacon to me.

00:26:43.000 I love that aspect of your work, and that is my claim to fame.

00:26:48.000 That's my passion, and I had an opportunity to do it on this platform.

00:26:51.000 I'm still doing it, but when I got that opportunity, I thought, you know...

00:26:56.000 You put me on this show the first time around about this till this day controversy, if you want to call it that, and it gave me another level of notoriety.

00:27:05.000 It provided other opportunities for me because you were gracious enough and generous enough with your platform to do that.

00:27:13.000 Well, you know, not long ago, people were furious with you.

00:27:16.000 Some people still so.

00:27:17.000 I'm fine with everybody having their opinion or being pissed.

00:27:22.000 Everybody gets an opportunity to do that.

00:27:24.000 There's a right to do that.

00:27:25.000 But talking about taking Joe Rogan out of the sphere of conversation? 0.99

00:27:31.000 Idiots talking about kill Joe Rogan? 1.00

00:27:35.000 That's my friend. 1.00

00:27:37.000 That's a good guy.

00:27:39.000 It doesn't matter whether or not you agree with everything he says.

00:27:43.000 It doesn't matter whether or not you agree Do your own experience.

00:27:58.000 I came here today because I wanted to be a part of the Joe Rogan experience.

00:28:04.000 Not anybody in the comment section.

00:28:06.000 Not anybody in their think pieces.

00:28:09.000 Not anybody in their editorials.

00:28:10.000 I'm here for the Joe Rogan experience.

00:28:12.000 And that has been an incredibly wonderful experience for me.

00:28:18.000 Why should you or anybody else be able to take that from me?

00:28:21.000 I think people think too much about why.

00:28:23.000 People think too much about this idea that you can stop someone from talking.

00:28:30.000 And that's the whole idea about cancel culture, right? 0.90

00:28:33.000 Is that you're going to remove someone from the conversation.

00:28:36.000 And it's worked for some people.

00:28:38.000 I mean, rightly so for people like Harvey Weinstein, right?

00:28:42.000 They...

00:28:43.000 That's cancel culture in its best form.

00:28:46.000 That's the best version of it.

00:28:47.000 I've never heard Harvey Weinstein's perspective on anything. 1.00

00:28:49.000 He's a serial rapist. 1.00

00:28:51.000 Yeah, let's remove him from society. 1.00

00:28:54.000 But we didn't find out about that until people were outraged.

00:28:58.000 Until Ronan Farrow wrote that piece.

00:29:01.000 That was like an open secret in Hollywood.

00:29:04.000 That was the non-cancel culture.

00:29:06.000 That was a let people slide culture. 0.94

00:29:09.000 He's going to help us and get us an Academy Award. 0.99

00:29:12.000 Yeah, he's a scumbag, but thank him when you win your Oscar. 0.97

00:29:16.000 Well, I make a serious distinction between someone's actions that harm other people as opposed to someone's opinions that you have to go somewhere to hear. 0.99

00:29:29.000 No, no, no.

00:29:29.000 Obviously, obviously.

00:29:30.000 But what I'm saying is this is a weird time in terms of people being able to express themselves.

00:29:35.000 It's so unique and unprecedented that untold millions of people at any time can pick up their phone and go onto Facebook or go onto Twitter or whatever and just start putting your opinion out there.

00:29:47.000 Go onto YouTube, make a video.

00:29:48.000 You know, I was listening to the radio, Rahim. 0.98

00:29:51.000 He talks too fucking loud. 0.98

00:29:54.000 And you can read that and you can listen to that and that can affect you. 0.98

00:29:59.000 And that's why you have to be careful about, you know, people talk about your diet.

00:30:05.000 In terms of what you eat.

00:30:07.000 You have to have a good diet in terms of what you take in mentally as well.

00:30:11.000 It's very important.

00:30:12.000 And that's why you don't want to read comments.

00:30:13.000 Because you're taking in complaints. 0.98

00:30:15.000 And you can only take in so many complaints before you start internalizing them and thinking like, man, maybe I do suck.

00:30:21.000 Or maybe you get a little defensive.

00:30:24.000 I've seen a lot of people get ultra defensive and get really weird because of reading too many comments.

00:30:30.000 It's like...

00:30:31.000 You should do your own personal auditing.

00:30:34.000 You should be objective and introspective and think about yourself and your life and who you are and what you say and how it affects other people.

00:30:42.000 But you can't take all those negative things in too much.

00:30:47.000 It's like drinking too much alcohol or smoking too much cigarettes.

00:30:50.000 It's not good for you.

00:30:52.000 And you can't take for granted, though, the freedom of being able to express one's views and be authentic.

00:30:59.000 I'm not trying to shut down the comment section by any stretch of the imagination.

00:31:03.000 When it gets violent, though, when it gets to pointing out an individual for harm, which, I mean, excuse me if I'm ill-informed, but I don't believe I've ever heard you do.

00:31:15.000 No.

00:31:15.000 I've certainly never heard Dave do that.

00:31:18.000 No, of course not.

00:31:19.000 You guys, to me, are models of what it is to be free men in society.

00:31:25.000 You have to work hard to defend this space.

00:31:29.000 And you have some responsibility to not abuse that space.

00:31:34.000 But it's the Joe Rogan experience.

00:31:36.000 And for people to put on you that anything you say has to be according to Hoyle Truth and this space here where you get to talk about your experience and get from others theirs has to all of a sudden meet the standard of nightly news.

00:31:57.000 Well, the nightly news doesn't hold up to its own standards.

00:32:00.000 Right. 1.00

00:32:01.000 They're completely full of shit, and they're completely bought and paid for by advertising money. 1.00

00:32:06.000 So in the absence of that, in the absence of credibility on the nightly news, where we were all supposed to be able to go get the unvarnished truth and the actual facts, then we find other spaces that are more... 1.00

00:32:20.000 A place where we are receptive to what the messages that are being put out.

00:32:24.000 The places where it resonates with people.

00:32:26.000 It makes sense because the person seems like they're just a normal human being.

00:32:30.000 They're not a human being that's been hired to say a certain thing a certain way because that's the way the network profits the most.

00:32:39.000 Right.

00:32:40.000 That's their job, though.

00:32:41.000 That's where we're supposed to be able to go and get those truths, where we're supposed to be able to go and get actual facts, not two people debating what a fact is, but being told the truth.

00:32:53.000 If they're in the vacuum that the absence of that credibility creates, well, then you'll find all kinds of spheres of people who will give you the truth that is most agreeable to your predisposition.

00:33:06.000 That's dangerous.

00:33:07.000 That's their fault.

00:33:09.000 Well, a lot of it is their fault, but what they don't understand is when you spend so much time talking about a person in a negative light, you're going to make a certain percentage of those people investigate whether or not you're accurate.

00:33:23.000 And then those people are going to go, hey, that show's pretty good.

00:33:29.000 I mean, I've talked about this before, but I gained two million subscribers during the whole cancellation time.

00:33:35.000 That's a lot of people.

00:33:36.000 Yeah.

00:33:37.000 And it's only helped because it's not true.

00:33:41.000 It's like if you listen to what I'm...

00:33:42.000 I'm not like a minister of disinformation trying to...

00:33:44.000 Tell people, don't get vaccinated, don't take medicine, the pharmaceutical companies are out to get you.

00:33:49.000 No, but I'm being honest.

00:33:51.000 I'm being honest about what they have done in the past.

00:33:53.000 I'm being honest about the dangers of certain medications.

00:33:56.000 I'm being honest about expressions of free speech and what it means to me and how important it is that people be able to express themselves.

00:34:04.000 It's an amazing time that a person like me can have this much of a Voice and I do pay attention to it and I'm aware of it that it's unusual I'm aware of it.

00:34:14.000 I'm aware of it.

00:34:15.000 That's a tremendous responsibility But all I can do is do what got me here and that's just be me be me be honest try to be caring try to be kind try to be is as Generous as I can as nice as I can.

00:34:28.000 That's it.

00:34:29.000 Yeah, and also you're On a consistent basis, telling people, go do your own research.

00:34:38.000 If that's what you've...

00:34:40.000 Well, tell people to read the actual pertinent information.

00:34:44.000 That's actually a joke now.

00:34:46.000 Do your own research.

00:34:47.000 I did my own research.

00:34:49.000 No, you should trust the experts.

00:34:50.000 Well, not anymore.

00:34:52.000 You know, it depends on what you're talking about.

00:34:54.000 Should you trust the experts on nuclear physics?

00:34:56.000 Yes.

00:34:56.000 Should you trust the experts?

00:34:57.000 As soon as money gets involved, this whole trust the experts thing gets fucking weird because we know that people have influenced people to make certain statements that do not jive with the facts.

00:35:09.000 And if you look at all that accurately and you say, you know, trust the experts, like which ones?

00:35:15.000 Which experts?

00:35:16.000 You want to trust the experts in math?

00:35:17.000 Yes.

00:35:18.000 Those guys can't lie, because you can do the work.

00:35:21.000 Everyone can see it.

00:35:21.000 It's math.

00:35:22.000 It's as clear as it gets.

00:35:24.000 Trust the experts in ancient history?

00:35:25.000 Sure, as long as they agree.

00:35:27.000 If they don't agree with each other, then which experts?

00:35:30.000 I was just reading this thing about Clovis yesterday, and I sent it to a friend of mine, who is an expert in it, and I said, hey, what do you think about this article?

00:35:38.000 And he sent it to another guy.

00:35:39.000 So these people are like passing, these experts are passing this article around.

00:35:43.000 Like here's the problems with this.

00:35:44.000 You know, the idea is that people were in North America thousands of years earlier than they thought.

00:35:50.000 And this is like pretty much established now.

00:35:52.000 That's true because they keep finding bones and all sorts of artifacts that are far older than they thought they were.

00:35:58.000 The new article came out just a few days ago about how re-examining Clovis first and that might be accurate.

00:36:06.000 And so I sent this article to these other guys.

00:36:08.000 I said, well, who's right?

00:36:09.000 Is it that people were here 30,000, 40,000 years ago?

00:36:12.000 Or is it the Clovis people were the first people?

00:36:15.000 And so they're all breaking this down.

00:36:16.000 So experts don't even agree. 0.99

00:36:19.000 This fucking guy who wrote this article is an expert. 0.99

00:36:21.000 And I sent it to some other experts, and they sent it to other experts. 0.99

00:36:24.000 And they're all going...

00:36:25.000 So when you say, trust the experts...

00:36:27.000 On what?

00:36:28.000 On what?

00:36:29.000 And science is an ongoing study, right?

00:36:32.000 That's part of it, to continue to question.

00:36:34.000 And there are things that are proven to work and things that have been established over years that we can rely on.

00:36:40.000 I think the part that makes it so confusing is what we spoke about earlier, the lack of credibility of institutions.

00:36:47.000 What institutions do you trust?

00:36:49.000 100%.

00:36:50.000 That's exactly what it is.

00:36:51.000 Because when you just trust the people that are in power, then you get a dictatorship.

00:36:57.000 You can't just trust anyone who has authority.

00:37:00.000 That's nonsense.

00:37:01.000 You have to know why they know what they know, and how did they come about, and are they being influenced, and do they have an agenda, and do they have a vested interest in this being accurate as opposed to that?

00:37:12.000 Is there a financial gain involved in it?

00:37:14.000 And oftentimes there is, and that's real.

00:37:17.000 That's real human beings, and most people know that. 0.92

00:37:20.000 And when you can get people to just fucking step in line and just listen to authority, The problem with that is, that doesn't go away. 1.00

00:37:27.000 They keep that fucking attitude, and that's the attitude that they have in all these communist dictatorships where the people are under the boot of these fucking evil thugs. 0.99

00:37:36.000 How did that come about? 1.00

00:37:37.000 It came about because they just had to listen.

00:37:39.000 They have to listen.

00:37:41.000 And so, free speech, in a free form, you being able to say that without having some totalitarian government come down on your head, or even People in the sphere of cancel culture try to eliminate the show from existence is the difference between,

00:38:00.000 yeah, it may be a cliche, it may even be a punchline, do your own research, but you have the option to listen to what you think is credible and juxtapose that with what might not be in line with your current beliefs.

00:38:13.000 How much you invest in that investigation, that's entirely up to the character and the desire for you to know the truth.

00:38:20.000 True.

00:38:21.000 You can't police that in other people, but the opportunity for them to get that information can't be hindered.

00:38:25.000 Don't you think it's also a factor of no one has enough time?

00:38:30.000 No one.

00:38:31.000 No one has enough time. 0.99

00:38:32.000 If you really want to find out about the fucking Spanish flu from 1918, do you have the time? 0.98

00:38:39.000 How many people have the time? 0.98

00:38:40.000 Do you have the time to research the waves and how people started wearing masks and when people died and where it came from?

00:38:46.000 Did it actually come from Spain or did it actually come from America, they think. 0.99

00:38:50.000 Nobody has the fucking time! 0.98

00:38:52.000 So even things that are happening right now, like when they're talking about, oh, you know, we've got to stop being so dependent on foreign oil. 1.00

00:38:58.000 Fuck! 0.99

00:38:59.000 I got to go research foreign oil? 1.00

00:39:01.000 I got to start thinking, like, how bad was fracking?

00:39:04.000 Some people say fracking's the devil.

00:39:06.000 Other people say fracking's necessary.

00:39:07.000 It's going to fuck up some spots, but it's going to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil. 1.00

00:39:12.000 Fuck, I gotta research this? 0.99

00:39:13.000 I gotta go and find out who's right and who's wrong? 1.00

00:39:15.000 I've had experts that had completely different opinions on climate change, and it's exhausting.

00:39:22.000 You know, I'm just like, who's right?

00:39:24.000 One guy is saying that solar and wind can take care of a lot of our energy needs, and we need to optimize those, and if we don't do that, we're fucked, and here's all these examples of pollution, and this is what the carbon's doing through the atmosphere, and then there's another guy that goes, here's like a thousand-year chart.

00:39:40.000 Of how the temperature of the earth just keeps going up and down.

00:39:42.000 We're on course.

00:39:43.000 It has an effect, but it has a small effect, and there's a lot of people that are profiting off of freaking everybody out, and the control that they're going to get from some sort of climate crisis, the same as they would get it from a war crisis, the same as a health crisis, if they have the opportunity to close in and get tighter and tighter control on your actions and what you're allowed to do and not allowed to do,

00:40:05.000 then it's easier to be a dictator.

00:40:07.000 Because there's a lot of people that are out there that don't like the idea of people voting for things.

00:40:12.000 They would rather just run things.

00:40:14.000 They would rather just tell you what to do.

00:40:16.000 And in certain cases, they can do that.

00:40:18.000 In cases of war, in cases of any sort of extreme medical emergency, in cases of any sort of civil disobedience, they can impose martial law.

00:40:27.000 That stuff's scary.

00:40:28.000 That stuff's scary because then you have an incentive for those things to take place so that you can control things.

00:40:34.000 And then even after you're done controlling things, you could allow things to relax a little bit, but you have more control over the people now than you did a year ago, two years ago, five years ago, before the crisis.

00:40:45.000 It's what they did with 9-11.

00:40:47.000 I don't think that the United States caused 9-11, but I most likely think, I most certainly think, that they used 9-11 to get the Patriot Act through. 0.76

00:40:56.000 A lot of stuff that was in the Patriot Act existed before this, long before 9-11.

00:41:01.000 They couldn't get it through.

00:41:02.000 There's a lot of ideas.

00:41:03.000 They do that with bills. 1.00

00:41:04.000 They shove a bunch of shit in there. 0.99

00:41:05.000 And you're like, wait a minute, why does it say things about crosswalks? 1.00

00:41:08.000 In a thing about something that's totally unrelated.

00:41:12.000 Do you guys have a deal with the Crosswalk Union?

00:41:15.000 This is a bad example.

00:41:18.000 But why do they have provisions in certain bills that have nothing to do with what the title of the bill is?

00:41:24.000 And the life of those provisions.

00:41:26.000 That may...

00:41:28.000 Long outlive the crisis at hand.

00:41:30.000 Yes forever like the Patriot Act like the TSA one guy tries to blow his shoes off We have to take our shoes off forever like what is that what fuck and it just it's forever and it just keeps going and it's just that you don't when you lose power when you lose power over your decision to make Choices and whether or not you want to do this or do that and what you're allowed to do and freedom once you lose that you don't get it back you You never get more freedom.

00:41:57.000 You always get a little less. 0.96

00:41:58.000 And you go, we're still better off than Haiti. 0.99

00:42:00.000 We're still better off than Cuba. 1.00

00:42:02.000 We're still better off than China. 1.00

00:42:03.000 The fucking reality is we're not better off in terms of our ability to make decisions for ourselves than we were before they imposed these things. 0.98

00:42:12.000 We're not as free in terms of government surveillance. 0.98

00:42:16.000 The idea that the government could be looking out for terrorists and stop terrorists, yeah, that would be nice.

00:42:21.000 It would be nice if you could prevent a terrorist attack.

00:42:24.000 Okay.

00:42:25.000 Well, the only way we can do that, Rahim, is we're going to have to look at all your emails and read all your text messages, whether you like it or not, and listen to every call you ever make.

00:42:33.000 No, but they do that. 0.99

00:42:34.000 They can do that.

00:42:35.000 Why can they do that?

00:42:36.000 They can do that under the guise you might be a terrorist.

00:42:39.000 Which is crazy!

00:42:40.000 That's like the ultimate guilty until proven innocent.

00:42:43.000 It's like 330 million people are guilty until proven innocent?

00:42:47.000 And you gotta check everybody's text?

00:42:48.000 Well, that's the kind of thing that happens when they get a little bit of control.

00:42:51.000 And it's a normal human thing, man.

00:42:53.000 And you can get people...

00:42:55.000 You might even get me to say yes in a moment of crisis.

00:42:57.000 Like, okay, it's 9-12, and if you need to check my emails to make sure that, you know, aircrafts are safe, or I can go into the mall without getting blown up... 0.97

00:43:07.000 Check the fucking emails, please, and my neighbors, too. 0.98

00:43:11.000 Exactly. 0.99

00:43:12.000 But now, it's 20, 22. But what if it's you are criticizing?

00:43:17.000 What if Trump gets in office again and he has his power?

00:43:19.000 And what if it's you're writing something very critical of Trump? 1.00

00:43:23.000 So he starts investigating you and fucking with you. 1.00

00:43:26.000 Because he finds out it's you. 1.00

00:43:27.000 Because he's looking at your tweets.

00:43:28.000 He's looking at your text messages.

00:43:30.000 Even though he's not supposed to know it's your account.

00:43:32.000 He's looking at your phone.

00:43:34.000 He's seeing who you're calling on a daily basis.

00:43:37.000 That's what a dictator can do.

00:43:39.000 And I'm not even saying that it's Trump.

00:43:40.000 Imagine it's someone else.

00:43:41.000 Imagine it's Kim Jong-un.

00:43:43.000 Kim Jong-un runs America.

00:43:45.000 You know, you gotta think, like, that's a real human being in 2022. I know he doesn't live in America, and I know it's different over here.

00:43:51.000 I know we're heavily armed. 0.98

00:43:52.000 But that's still a human being in 2022 that if you tweeted badly about him, you're a dead man. 1.00

00:43:59.000 You're dead. 1.00

00:44:00.000 He's gonna fucking kill you. 1.00

00:44:02.000 100%. 1.00

00:44:02.000 He kills his family members. 1.00

00:44:05.000 Right? 1.00

00:44:06.000 Right. 1.00

00:44:06.000 He has them assassinated. 1.00

00:44:08.000 That's a real guy.

00:44:09.000 You have to think that's a possible pattern of behavior that human beings follow. 1.00

00:44:16.000 It's wild shit, dude. 0.99

00:44:18.000 Right, and this entire government, of course, is for the people by the people. 1.00

00:44:23.000 So whatever pattern human behavior follows, so shall government.

00:44:28.000 Have you ever read what they said about Kim Jong Il's first day of playing golf?

00:44:35.000 No.

00:44:37.000 Ali Sadiq told me about this. 0.99

00:44:40.000 I thought he was fucking with me. 0.99

00:44:42.000 Until we started reading it. 1.00

00:44:44.000 It is one of the craziest things you've ever read in your life.

00:44:47.000 His first day playing golf?

00:44:48.000 Dude.

00:44:49.000 He's the greatest golf player the world has ever known.

00:44:53.000 Like a god of golf.

00:44:54.000 Read about this.

00:44:55.000 That is kind of Trumpian.

00:44:57.000 Dude, he's...

00:44:58.000 No, no, no.

00:44:59.000 Kim shot 38 under, including 11 holes in one, at the 7,700-yard championship course at Pyongyang in the very first golf round of his life, according to the North Korean state media.

00:45:14.000 It was 1994 when Kim was 52 years old, even more impressive...

00:45:18.000 Kim stood just 5'3", yet he was able to overpower a course as long as any ever played in major championship history.

00:45:29.000 Who knows how good Kim could have been if he had taken up the sport earlier?

00:45:32.000 Who knows how many times he bested 38 under in the 17 years since his first round?

00:45:39.000 How crazy is that?

00:45:40.000 I mean, come on, Joe.

00:45:41.000 This has to remind you of Trump's first, like, health report.

00:45:50.000 Oh, boy.

00:45:52.000 Yeah, I don't know.

00:45:52.000 I mean, to your previous point.

00:45:54.000 Tremendous health.

00:45:55.000 The healthiest president ever.

00:45:58.000 Healthiest president they've ever had.

00:46:00.000 The thing that freaks me about him is he didn't age in the White House like everybody else does.

00:46:04.000 Biden has aged so much in a year.

00:46:07.000 Yeah, I don't think he was worried about as much. 0.99

00:46:09.000 I don't think he was worried about shit. 0.99

00:46:10.000 I think he was watching Fox News. 0.99

00:46:11.000 They like me.

00:46:12.000 They love me.

00:46:14.000 Yeah.

00:46:15.000 I think, you know, just a finer point on your previous topic.

00:46:20.000 Maybe I don't know is an acceptable answer.

00:46:23.000 I don't know what fracking is going to do ultimately to the earth.

00:46:29.000 It is acceptable, right?

00:46:31.000 Yeah, you would think, but it doesn't seem to be an acceptable answer.

00:46:35.000 Nobody wants to admit that, you know, I don't know.

00:46:38.000 I know some things.

00:46:39.000 Oh, this seems to make sense.

00:46:42.000 Math supports that.

00:46:44.000 That seems provable.

00:46:45.000 We've had an experience here that we can point to that makes this...

00:46:49.000 Information credible, but do I know enough to say for certainty and game out what happens in 20 years if we take this process?

00:46:58.000 No.

00:46:59.000 No, I don't.

00:47:00.000 So we're going to have to make some decisions based on the unknown.

00:47:04.000 The problem if you say, I don't know, is someone will come along and say, I know, and they might not necessarily know.

00:47:09.000 And then another expert right next to him will be like, he doesn't know, he's wrong, and we need to debate.

00:47:16.000 Yeah.

00:47:17.000 There's so many things to pay attention to, man.

00:47:20.000 There's so much to pay attention to.

00:47:22.000 You know, it's just...

00:47:24.000 It's a strange time, man.

00:47:26.000 It's a strange time because there's so much information, but you only have so much storage.

00:47:31.000 You only have so much room in your head.

00:47:33.000 You only have so much time.

00:47:35.000 Yeah, you made an interesting point about how much time people have.

00:47:39.000 I'll have to confess that I have probably an inordinate amount of time to think about what I think about stuff.

00:47:47.000 Yeah, you have a nice life.

00:47:51.000 I've not made my life about my opinion.

00:47:54.000 I'm not like an opinion piece guy.

00:47:56.000 Nobody is coming to me to hear my perspective, necessarily.

00:48:00.000 But this show that I just debuted...

00:48:03.000 Till this day.

00:48:05.000 Till this day...

00:48:07.000 Is the first time it made me think about why I do things, which is how that show came about.

00:48:15.000 And talking to people about what they see as their opponent, that's how I phrase it.

00:48:24.000 Identify.

00:48:24.000 The first question I ask anybody before we go on air, and there's no pre-interview, there's no setup, I ask them one question to prepare.

00:48:33.000 Name, identify, or somehow describe the opponent in your life.

00:48:41.000 What is the thing, the hurdle that you've had to best or overcome consistently as adversity to who you want to be or what you have become?

00:48:51.000 Give me that in a bite size or a noun.

00:48:56.000 And I've talked to 17 people.

00:49:00.000 Completely different people.

00:49:02.000 I haven't heard an answer repeated once.

00:49:05.000 Wow.

00:49:06.000 And so when people say, you never know what people are going through, you never know what somebody's struggle is, boy, I never knew that more truly than I have in experiencing this show that I've done.

00:49:15.000 Think about that question asking people and how few people ever have that conversation with another person, right?

00:49:21.000 Most of the people you meet, when you're working with them, they're going throughout their day, you never try to break down what was the hardest thing for them to overcome to get to where they're at.

00:49:30.000 Yeah.

00:49:30.000 These are my friends.

00:49:32.000 Most of the people on the show are my friends, or at least associates I've had for years, people I think I know.

00:49:38.000 They're public people, people we think we know as audience members or fans.

00:49:44.000 Well, these people are just like everybody else in that they have internal struggles.

00:49:49.000 They have things going on that you would never think of as much as you think you know them.

00:49:52.000 And I learned a lot.

00:49:55.000 Just from having the experience of other people's lives and the lens through which they see their own life.

00:50:03.000 I gotta talk about Jon Stewart, who was there the other night at the bowl.

00:50:12.000 One thing that mortified me because I look up to him so much as an interviewer in particular was that the kind of information that we're talking about, him being at the forefront of that information war when he was the most trusted news source in America on a comedy show that was satire,

00:50:32.000 but because the institution was trusted, because the guy was pointing out The song and dance show of the nightly news and the political spin, we could trust him.

00:50:44.000 He felt like he lost that battle.

00:50:47.000 He felt like, well, they won.

00:50:49.000 I didn't have enough of an impact, if any impact at all.

00:50:54.000 I was shocked by that.

00:50:57.000 I thought, like, not only did you win, but I had no idea internally he would have thought anything else.

00:51:04.000 But that's how true he was to the cause.

00:51:06.000 Like, because it's still going on, because there is still a Fox News, because there is still disinformation happening on all news channels, he feels like he didn't accomplish what he could have.

00:51:20.000 He should have stayed in the game. 0.99

00:51:23.000 Look, the guy's back and doing his show now, but when he was the host of The Daily Show, he was the fucking man. 0.93

00:51:28.000 It was, I think, maybe it was too much, maybe he got worn out, maybe it was like, you know, he felt like he'd done enough and he wanted to do something different, take some time off or something like that, but I think you get better at something the more you do it, you know? 0.75

00:51:42.000 I think it's important that there is a way, there's a way to distribute comedy And have it wrapped up in the news and it actually is informative and helpful.

00:51:56.000 And that's one of the things The Daily Show did when Stewart was running it.

00:51:59.000 He's so likable and he's so smart and so obvious that he's smart that you hear him talk about stuff and you go, oh yeah.

00:52:08.000 It resonates.

00:52:10.000 It makes sense.

00:52:11.000 I think he's so true to that mission that maybe he cared even too much.

00:52:17.000 It must be a tireless fight to feel like you're the only voice and have this platform that...

00:52:26.000 Every other nightly news, cable news show should be doing what you're doing and instead you're like fighting them every night and having to point out how terrible they are at doing the thing they're most importantly tasked with.

00:52:37.000 So if you see that as a constant struggle and they seem to be unaffected by it ultimately, even though people are listening to The Daily Show and understanding some of the song and dance about mass media, It's still not changing the bottom line,

00:52:54.000 at least from his perspective.

00:52:55.000 It might just be exhausting, man.

00:52:57.000 I'm sure it's exhausting.

00:52:59.000 One of the things that's come out of this, the corporate news not being trusted, is the rise of these independent news platforms.

00:53:07.000 That's what's interesting to me.

00:53:09.000 What's really interesting to me is watching how these, like, online YouTube people and online Substack journalists are changing the way people get their information.

00:53:19.000 Because there's certain people that have ethics as a journalist, as a reporter, as someone who's trying to explain the truth the best they know, and their ethics are unflappable.

00:53:31.000 And they happen to be on YouTube, or they happen to be on Substack, and people find them.

00:53:35.000 And they're gravitating towards them now.

00:53:37.000 And so those other ones, they don't work anymore.

00:53:40.000 It's like school lunches. 1.00

00:53:43.000 Like, you could do better than a fucking school lunch, bitch. 1.00

00:53:46.000 I know what food is. 1.00

00:53:47.000 And that's what this is like. 0.99

00:53:49.000 The nightly news on a lot of these fucking networks, it's like a school lunch. 0.99

00:53:53.000 Cable news is like school lunch. 1.00

00:53:55.000 Like, this is edible, but it sucks. 0.92

00:53:58.000 I'm all about that. 0.84

00:53:59.000 There's no secret my career began on YouTube.

00:54:02.000 I couldn't break into the...

00:54:05.000 The big market.

00:54:06.000 I wasn't being sat at the table or ringside on the major networks.

00:54:10.000 You've got to make your own market because there's not enough seats at the table, right?

00:54:15.000 If you think about how many major fights are going on on a daily basis, there's not enough seats, you know?

00:54:19.000 But there's also not enough opportunity.

00:54:21.000 I think especially when I was getting in, it was thought of to be like an old white man's job or an ex-fighter.

00:54:27.000 You're not one of those two.

00:54:29.000 You want a broadcaster that's established, that has the resume that you're looking for, and the salty gray hair, the porcelain skin, or you've had to have been a fighter.

00:54:42.000 But the people like myself, Who are in the boxing gym shooting sparring sessions, no fighters personally.

00:54:48.000 I was training, never thought I would be a boxer, but so much passion for the sport that I felt I had a personal experience, a connection to it.

00:54:55.000 I know the sport.

00:54:56.000 I can do this job, and I'm young and energetic and able to...

00:55:00.000 Handle a broadcast, never get the job.

00:55:02.000 Right, but they would never hire you.

00:55:03.000 They would never hire you.

00:55:04.000 But that's okay, because it's better this way.

00:55:07.000 Because if they hired you, they would never allow you to be you. 0.97

00:55:09.000 If someone just hired you straight up with no YouTube videos, no nothing, they would try to get you to be like, hey, I'm Bobby McPhee, and I'm over here with all the...

00:55:19.000 You're acting normal.

00:55:20.000 You're acting like what you think a reporter is.

00:55:24.000 It's not...

00:55:25.000 It's not an accident that almost all those old-timey reporters talked like old-timey reporters.

00:55:31.000 They all had a pattern they had to follow.

00:55:34.000 You couldn't just be yourself.

00:55:35.000 And you couldn't just focus on things that you think are interesting, like sparring sessions, like the stories about people's struggles, like stuff that you actually think is interesting.

00:55:44.000 The beautiful thing about something like YouTube or any kind of platform that's putting up videos and audios, it's like So many people can contribute and you can find those unusual voices.

00:55:55.000 There's a lot of them in MMA journalism too.

00:55:58.000 I could ask the questions that no network would ever permit me to ask.

00:56:02.000 You could ask the questions that you want answers to and so then the audience gets engaged with this. 0.99

00:56:08.000 It's not like some cookie cutter bullshit question and you give your cookie cutter bullshit answer to the reporter. 0.99

00:56:14.000 No, you guys are having a conversation. 1.00

00:56:16.000 That's what people love.

00:56:18.000 When I talked to Mike Tyson, he was explaining to me his childhood and then what it was like to meet Cuss and what the experience was like. 0.99

00:56:27.000 Learning boxing and being hypnotized by this guy who was a master of psychology as well as a master boxing coach who just happens to be a fucking hypnotist. 0.98

00:56:36.000 Who just happens to be dying. 0.96

00:56:38.000 Who just happens to be at the end of his life and he's got the best prodigy he's ever experienced.

00:56:43.000 And this guy will do anything. 0.96

00:56:45.000 And he's ready to go and he's fucking super talented at 13. Like holy shit. 1.00

00:56:49.000 This is it. 0.99

00:56:50.000 It's like his whole life built to that moment.

00:56:52.000 Like all the work with Floyd Patterson and Jose Torres and all that stuff.

00:56:56.000 That built to that moment where he met Mike Tyson.

00:56:59.000 And as he leaves this earth, Mike Tyson becomes the greatest heavyweight of all time.

00:57:05.000 At that moment.

00:57:06.000 Mike Tyson's smashing people at that moment.

00:57:09.000 Mike Tyson's destroying Marvis Frazier.

00:57:11.000 Mike Tyson's knocking out Larry Holmes at that moment. 0.87

00:57:14.000 In every bit of work, every single day, every round, for every other fighter, before he left this earth, he got to experience the culmination of all his wisdom in being imparted to this one lump of incredibly talented silly buddy.

00:57:30.000 He shaped this guy.

00:57:31.000 You're not gonna get that perspective in a regular cookie-cutter interview.

00:57:36.000 That guy's gotta be able to just talk.

00:57:38.000 Right, you can't sum that up in 13 and a half minutes for a commercial break.

00:57:42.000 And you gotta let Mike Tyson smoke weed. 0.99

00:57:45.000 I think you have to let combat athletes smoke weed.

00:57:48.000 I don't know if anybody shouldn't be allowed to smoke weed.

00:57:51.000 Well, isn't it still banned in the NFL? I mean, as far as I know, I'm no authority.

00:57:56.000 I was just reading something about these NFL guys that are pissed off because marijuana is banned there.

00:58:01.000 And it's a pain-reducing drug, right?

00:58:05.000 And how many drugs can they use to reduce pain that are far more dangerous, addictive, destructive than marijuana?

00:58:14.000 Oh, look at this.

00:58:15.000 NFL players no longer face the possibility of being suspended from games over positive tests for any drug, not just marijuana.

00:58:23.000 So this is new under February 1st, 2022. Under a collective bargaining agreement.

00:58:28.000 Instead, they will face a fine.

00:58:30.000 The threshold for what constitutes a positive THC test has also increased under the deal.

00:58:37.000 But even then, it's like...

00:58:38.000 Well, that's a fine.

00:58:39.000 It's not permitted.

00:58:41.000 You're still penalized for it.

00:58:43.000 I don't want to smoke a million-dollar joint.

00:58:46.000 It's a fine, right?

00:58:48.000 NFL players are balling.

00:58:49.000 You have to hit them hard to make them change their ways. 0.97

00:58:52.000 You have to hit them with a big fine.

00:58:56.000 You shouldn't be high playing, maybe, but don't basketball players love to play high?

00:59:01.000 They love to play high.

00:59:02.000 Jamie, hit me with this.

00:59:03.000 Oh, yeah.

00:59:04.000 Oh, yeah.

00:59:04.000 They all play high, right?

00:59:05.000 I mean, not all, but...

00:59:07.000 I would imagine that it's like anything else that requires a feel.

00:59:12.000 You know?

00:59:13.000 Like, there's a thing about...

00:59:14.000 You feel things...

00:59:15.000 Like, jiu-jitsu players love to get high.

00:59:17.000 It's very common.

00:59:18.000 Because you feel movement better.

00:59:21.000 You feel balance.

00:59:22.000 You feel...

00:59:22.000 You think THC is a performance-enhancing drug?

00:59:26.000 Yes, I do.

00:59:27.000 Really?

00:59:27.000 Yeah, it is.

00:59:28.000 It is for some things.

00:59:28.000 I can't even...

00:59:29.000 Hit the pads high!

00:59:30.000 Yeah, but that's just you, man.

00:59:33.000 Everybody's different.

00:59:34.000 Everybody's different when it comes to the way alcohol affects them.

00:59:37.000 People are different.

00:59:38.000 It's just, I guarantee there are people that have a positive net benefit, and I'm one of them, when they do certain things while high.

00:59:48.000 Marijuana enhances my pool game greatly.

00:59:51.000 When I play pool, I'm one ball better. 0.94

00:59:53.000 This is not like a bullshit pool assessment. 0.91

00:59:56.000 I'm one ball better. 0.96

00:59:57.000 I'll explain that.

00:59:58.000 85% of NBA players smoke weed.

01:00:02.000 Yes!

01:00:03.000 Of course we do.

01:00:04.000 I mean, don't get me wrong.

01:00:04.000 I don't smoke weed now, but there was a day.

01:00:06.000 Like, you know, I smoke weed a lot.

01:00:09.000 I think I've hit my threshold, which is why I can't smoke anymore. 0.99

01:00:12.000 One more joint, I'm a lunatic. 0.98

01:00:13.000 Like, I'm a basket case. 0.99

01:00:16.000 You're fine.

01:00:16.000 I would hate to get you high right now and prove you wrong.

01:00:20.000 It would be terrible.

01:00:20.000 I got Mike Tyson weed, too.

01:00:21.000 This is Mike Tyson weed. 0.79

01:00:22.000 But when I did, which was for a decent amount of time when I was young and really able to train crazy, I could smoke after training and it would help me with the pain, the muscle pain, the joint pain, the swelling, all that shit. 0.96

01:00:38.000 Great. 0.76

01:00:39.000 I'm having a hard time understanding how...

01:00:42.000 Being THC high helps a combat athlete.

01:00:47.000 It didn't make my reflexes faster.

01:00:49.000 I wasn't able to focus better.

01:00:52.000 I understand your experience.

01:00:55.000 But for me...

01:00:58.000 When I hit the bag when I'm high, I feel better.

01:01:01.000 I feel like I move better.

01:01:03.000 I feel like my balance is better.

01:01:05.000 I feel like there's maybe some little subtle things that I wasn't thinking about before that all of a sudden they're at the forefront because it makes you focus on a single thing.

01:01:14.000 It's really good for that.

01:01:16.000 And when that single thing is something like martial arts that I've been doing my whole life, there's something about being high that gives me like a new lens for it.

01:01:26.000 A new lens where you feel the way your body's moving.

01:01:29.000 You feel your hips extending.

01:01:32.000 You feel your abs contracting.

01:01:34.000 You feel when it's the time.

01:01:36.000 What's the timing in it?

01:01:38.000 You feel things more.

01:01:39.000 Maybe I should push off my toes more.

01:01:41.000 Maybe I feel my toes more.

01:01:43.000 I feel things more.

01:01:44.000 Instead of just going on autopilot because I've done it my whole life, now all of a sudden I'm thinking and I'm feeling stuff.

01:01:50.000 It's great for stretching.

01:01:52.000 For stretching, it's the greatest thing of all time.

01:01:54.000 You get super duper high and just you feel your fibers just extending.

01:02:01.000 You know what?

01:02:02.000 It feels amazing.

01:02:03.000 I take you at your point.

01:02:04.000 I think this has everything to do with the type of person you are.

01:02:07.000 I am not feeling anything.

01:02:10.000 In fact, that is almost the point of fighting.

01:02:13.000 It's a meditative state.

01:02:15.000 I can fight drunk, everybody can fight drunk, but if I had to choose a thousand times over, I would rather be a little buzz on a drink than a little buzz on a joint because I'm not thinking about anything.

01:02:29.000 Right.

01:02:30.000 Nothing's creeping into my mind.

01:02:31.000 It is entirely just the action of what I'm doing.

01:02:35.000 Somehow I think that helps me deaden the pain even.

01:02:37.000 So maybe I'm more of a sensitive person, and if you get me in my head like weed does, I'm starting to think about too many things.

01:02:44.000 Well, I'm in my head every day.

01:02:45.000 I overthink it.

01:02:45.000 The thing is when you don't get high a lot, and then you get high, then you're in your head.

01:02:49.000 And you're like, oh shit, but I'm always in my head. 0.99

01:02:51.000 Because I'm always high. 1.00

01:02:52.000 I get high all the time.

01:02:55.000 Your default position.

01:02:56.000 Do you know what it's like to train not high?

01:02:59.000 Maybe that's the thing.

01:02:59.000 Maybe you have no comparison.

01:03:01.000 No, no, no.

01:03:01.000 I train not high most of the time.

01:03:03.000 David Goggin said something to me once, and fuck, I've never been able to get it in my goddamn head. 1.00

01:03:07.000 He goes, I don't train listening to fucking music. 1.00

01:03:10.000 He goes, you train listening to fucking music, then you need that music. 1.00

01:03:13.000 That's right. 1.00

01:03:13.000 He goes, that shit's a crutch. 1.00

01:03:16.000 There ain't no fucking music! 1.00

01:03:17.000 There ain't no music out there in the world, motherfucker! 1.00

01:03:19.000 Yeah, I think you just found my custom auto. 0.99

01:03:22.000 And he said that to me, and I think about that when I want to smoke a joint and hit the bag.

01:03:27.000 I think about that when I want to listen to music and lift weights, or especially cardio.

01:03:33.000 There's something about boring, dull-ass cardio with no stimulation at all.

01:03:38.000 I used to love cardio, like listening to books.

01:03:41.000 But if you just got to do cardio, just your breathing, that's such a different thing.

01:03:46.000 Just breathing.

01:03:47.000 Yeah.

01:03:48.000 Just staring at the clock, thinking about your life, knowing you have 40 minutes to go.

01:03:53.000 That's what running is to me.

01:03:55.000 That's what running is.

01:03:55.000 But at least you're going somewhere.

01:03:56.000 At least when you're actually running, you're going somewhere. 0.94

01:03:59.000 There's something about cardio machines, you know, when you're like fucking just staring at the screen on an elliptical, knowing you have 45 more minutes of this nonsense, and you can't even listen to music? 0.98

01:04:09.000 No music! 0.99

01:04:11.000 There's no fucking music out there in the real world! 0.99

01:04:16.000 I never thought in any way I was going to be a professional athlete. 0.99

01:04:21.000 I never thought I would compete, right?

01:04:22.000 But I started boxing in fifth grade.

01:04:25.000 There was a guy in my neighborhood that had boxing equipment in his garage.

01:04:30.000 I would go in there and he'd train fighters.

01:04:32.000 Now I wish I knew more then to remember who was there and if this guy ever became a real boxing coach of any type.

01:04:40.000 But it was such a childhood memory of mine where this whole idea started.

01:04:45.000 And the fact that I never thought I would do anything for a living that didn't involve talking, I knew that was my thing.

01:04:52.000 I could speak, right?

01:04:55.000 That my godfather was my first adult trainer when I was like 19. And he's like, you're not training to compete with athletes.

01:05:05.000 You're training to win a fight.

01:05:07.000 Now, boxing is your discipline of choice, but the fight you're going to have won't be in the ring on Thursday at 8 o'clock, as the two men have decided. 0.99

01:05:16.000 It's going to be at 3 o'clock in the morning after you leave a club in the parking lot with some fucking idiot, and you're going to be drunk, too, and you're going to be tired. 0.99

01:05:24.000 So that's how we're going to train. 1.00

01:05:27.000 And so, yes.

01:05:29.000 What?

01:05:30.000 Yes.

01:05:30.000 I would leave clubs.

01:05:33.000 I got 22, 23 years old.

01:05:35.000 My best friend at that time was Bokeem Woodbine.

01:05:38.000 Dana Bratton trained both of us.

01:05:40.000 And we would go from the club, from the bar, from the party, to the gym and spar.

01:05:47.000 Oh my God.

01:05:48.000 Hit pads and train.

01:05:49.000 Yeah.

01:05:49.000 You drunk sparred?

01:05:51.000 A thousand times! 0.99

01:05:55.000 So, if I were boxing in a ring, I'd want to be sober, but if I'm in the street where any of my real fights are going to take place, I'm probably better fucked up. 0.98

01:06:05.000 That's how we train. 0.99

01:06:06.000 We train to win fights completely trash. 0.56

01:06:09.000 That's hilarious.

01:06:11.000 That's hilarious.

01:06:13.000 That's a funny way to do it.

01:06:15.000 Did you ever learn any martial arts other than boxing?

01:06:19.000 Learn?

01:06:20.000 No.

01:06:20.000 Try?

01:06:21.000 Yes.

01:06:21.000 Judo.

01:06:22.000 Judo was the first thing.

01:06:24.000 Dislocated my elbow in the least masculine way possible.

01:06:28.000 You know how they throw you and you're supposed to slap the mat?

01:06:31.000 So I got thrown.

01:06:32.000 I went to slap too early.

01:06:34.000 Oh, you landed on a hypersender.

01:06:36.000 Jackknifed my elbow.

01:06:38.000 Ouchie, wow, wow.

01:06:39.000 Yeah, so that got me out of judo.

01:06:41.000 I love martial arts like any kid.

01:06:44.000 In my time, I was a Bruce Lee fan, like big time.

01:06:48.000 Of course.

01:06:48.000 So then I wanted Jeet Kune Do, where there was no place to learn that, so I tried Taekwondo, and I loved the kicking of it all.

01:06:57.000 But to be honest, I just didn't have the money.

01:06:59.000 My mom wasn't going to be able to afford to send me to any...

01:07:05.000 Martial arts class and pay for the gi and all the stuff and then I go consistently.

01:07:12.000 So part of it was the money.

01:07:13.000 Another thing was I just wasn't able to be committed enough to make it worth the extra effort to spend that money.

01:07:20.000 Whereas the boxing...

01:07:22.000 It's a poor man's sport. 0.99

01:07:23.000 It's like all you need is some old guy in your neighborhood with a hanging bag and a couple hours on his schedule every day.

01:07:30.000 And so that ended up being what I did. 0.98

01:07:33.000 I respect the shit out of martial arts, man. 0.95

01:07:36.000 I want the mental focus that it takes and the discipline to stay in a particular style or another is what is more... 0.98

01:07:46.000 Attractive to me?

01:07:47.000 Maybe the mixed martial arts?

01:07:49.000 And then it might just be because of my understanding of it, right?

01:07:53.000 But what I like about boxing also is the finite nature of it.

01:07:57.000 It's no disrespect to MMA. Like, that is a discipline unto itself that I don't have any personal experience with, really.

01:08:03.000 But the limited amount of resources that a boxer has, the fewest things you can do, and the other guy has those very same few skills.

01:08:13.000 And so that's how I see the science of it, the chess match, the game of millimeters, really, in split seconds.

01:08:20.000 Because both guys are proficient, and they only have these finite amount of tools to work with.

01:08:25.000 The combination of those two things colliding is what really fascinates me about the execution of boxing.

01:08:32.000 That's what fascinates me as well.

01:08:34.000 It's specialists.

01:08:35.000 People that are doing, like, that's what fascinates me about watching jujitsu matches, too.

01:08:39.000 Because if I'm watching jujitsu matches, those are two experts.

01:08:42.000 They're not kicking each other or punching each other.

01:08:44.000 They're just doing this one thing at the highest level possible.

01:08:47.000 Right.

01:08:47.000 Yeah.

01:08:48.000 Did you see, I'm sure you saw Shakur Stevenson.

01:08:50.000 Of course. 1.00

01:08:51.000 Holy shit. 1.00

01:08:51.000 Of course. 1.00

01:08:52.000 This guy is a beast. 0.97

01:08:52.000 He's on another level. 0.97

01:08:54.000 That's a great example of that. 0.96

01:08:55.000 Because he's fighting Valdez, who is undefeated as well, and a real fucking world champion, elite fighter. 0.96

01:09:03.000 Absolutely. 1.00

01:09:03.000 And Shakur just put on a shit. 1.00

01:09:05.000 And just show that with his training, his execution, his technique was superior. 1.00

01:09:12.000 His strategy was superior.

01:09:13.000 His ability to close the distance and move just out of the way.

01:09:17.000 When the punches were coming to him, they were coming like right here.

01:09:21.000 It was like, it was just touching his face.

01:09:24.000 Right.

01:09:24.000 It was wild.

01:09:25.000 Millimeters.

01:09:26.000 Millimeters.

01:09:27.000 Millimeters.

01:09:27.000 And then he fired back.

01:09:28.000 And he was firing back and landing flush.

01:09:31.000 And it was genius. 1.00

01:09:33.000 It was just genius shit to watch. 0.99

01:09:34.000 That's what I love about boxing. 0.99

01:09:36.000 I mean, people say, yeah, you can't do that if somebody's leg kicks you.

01:09:39.000 You're right.

01:09:39.000 You can't do that that way if someone's leg kicks you.

01:09:42.000 Or if someone takes you down.

01:09:43.000 You're right.

01:09:43.000 You can't do that.

01:09:44.000 But if that...

01:09:46.000 If you want to see the highest expression of that, of using your hands, you have to have only guys using their hands. 0.96

01:09:53.000 And that's when you get these super elite striker...

01:09:56.000 Right.

01:09:56.000 That's like somebody saying, you know, I'm on a motorcycle and I'm running an obstacle course.

01:10:00.000 You can't do that in a car.

01:10:02.000 Right. 1.00

01:10:02.000 Well, no, because I'm on a fucking motorcycle. 1.00

01:10:04.000 That's why I can do that. 0.98

01:10:05.000 That's why people would not recommend boxing as a martial art to practice if you're drunk after a bar and you're going into like...

01:10:13.000 I would tell you, like, learn how to take people down.

01:10:16.000 Learn how to trip people.

01:10:17.000 Listen...

01:10:17.000 Joe, you're not going to get an argument from me there.

01:10:20.000 As far as, like, Street Fighter, the more things you can have at your disposal to end the fight as quick as possible, the better you're going to do.

01:10:29.000 Your hands break so easy.

01:10:32.000 Hands break so easy, man. 1.00

01:10:33.000 You swing wrong and catch a guy on a forehead and you're fucked. 1.00

01:10:36.000 Right. 0.99

01:10:37.000 I mean, I'm not shy about—I wouldn't want to fight a mixed martial artist at the level of a boxer that I am, however good I am.

01:10:46.000 If there were a guy equally as good at mixed martial arts as I am at boxing in a street fight, he's going to win!

01:10:53.000 I mean, you know what I mean?

01:10:55.000 If we're only left with our body resources, now I might pick up a bottle, I might hit this guy with a brick, but I understand that the more you're able to do, the more quickly you can end a fight.

01:11:10.000 And in the street, That's what it's all about, in the fight as quickly as possible.

01:11:14.000 But what we're both talking about is that if you are only doing one thing, that one thing, if you see, like, imagine if that's how they played baseball.

01:11:24.000 If baseball also featured tackling.

01:11:27.000 You know, baseball also has fights now.

01:11:29.000 Baseball also, you have to do it on skates.

01:11:31.000 Like, what?

01:11:32.000 Like, it's too many things.

01:11:33.000 You're going to lose...

01:11:34.000 If you have one thing, just one thing like boxing, you get to see the best expression of it.

01:11:39.000 One thing like jiu-jitsu, you get to see the best expression of it.

01:11:42.000 And, like, that was one of the reasons why, you know, Jordan Burroughs is?

01:11:47.000 No.

01:11:48.000 Olympic gold medalist, elite, super, super elite wrestler, like, top of the food chain, and had been given some opportunities to fight mixed martial arts.

01:11:58.000 But he's like, look, I'm an elite wrestler.

01:12:00.000 That's what I do.

01:12:01.000 I can learn all those things.

01:12:02.000 And I can...

01:12:03.000 He'd take any...

01:12:05.000 You know, regular MMA player down at will.

01:12:08.000 He's that good at wrestling.

01:12:10.000 But would he want to leave this thing that he specializes in, that he's at the top of the food chain at?

01:12:17.000 Right, and could he actually get to the point of taking them down?

01:12:20.000 For instance, the MMA guy that I'm theoretically fighting at this bar, well, he's going to have to get through the jab.

01:12:26.000 He's going to have to get through the two-piece.

01:12:28.000 If he gets inside, I'm probably in a lot of trouble.

01:12:31.000 But the finite nature of the sport, in the context of...

01:12:37.000 Professional athletes in their sports.

01:12:40.000 That's what I love about boxing.

01:12:41.000 I appreciate it in the street.

01:12:43.000 It's a mixed martial art landscape.

01:12:45.000 The reality is, when people are talking about MMA fighters making the crossover to boxing, no one can compete.

01:12:52.000 There's not one...

01:12:53.000 MMA fighter who is gonna be a world champion at boxing unless they 100% dedicate all of their time to it for a long period of time and then you're gonna have to make your way But to be able to beat the elite of the elite in their own given sport unless you're some rare outlier Freak of an athlete with one punch death power with fucking eight ounce ten ounce gloves on that's there's not a lot of those guys and I don't see that ever happening.

01:13:23.000 I mean, even if we had a Bo Jackson of MMA... But that would be a good example.

01:13:27.000 That would be a good example.

01:13:28.000 A Bo Jackson.

01:13:29.000 A freak, super freak athlete.

01:13:31.000 Yes.

01:13:32.000 And he was that.

01:13:33.000 Hershel Walker.

01:13:34.000 In both cases, though, there is a team surrounding him that could put him in the best role in that team sport.

01:13:41.000 But because each MMA and boxing are such individual sports, the amount of skill he would have to have in each...

01:13:50.000 Context.

01:13:51.000 I just don't think one man could get...

01:13:53.000 The way you stretch, the way your muscles have to work and contract in boxing, and then in MMA, and they don't...

01:14:01.000 It's not the same.

01:14:02.000 You can't have all of those...

01:14:04.000 Yeah, you...

01:14:05.000 Defense is different.

01:14:07.000 Yeah, for a guy that would...

01:14:08.000 And people sometimes take for granted how...

01:14:11.000 Smart fighters have to be. 0.93

01:14:13.000 I'm not talking about, you know, your mathematician skills or how well-versed you are in history, but I don't know any fighter at an elite level that isn't fucking brilliant in the ring or in the octagon. 0.89

01:14:25.000 100%. 0.62

01:14:26.000 You're using your mind to make choices and decisions and react.

01:14:29.000 Exactly.

01:14:30.000 If people think that the only information or the only intelligence that's worthwhile is intelligence so you can recite information, that's crazy.

01:14:37.000 That's not true.

01:14:39.000 Yeah, it's absurd is what it is. 0.99

01:14:41.000 And so to diminish the idea that these fighters are intelligent is a huge insult and probably means you're not that fucking smart. 0.97

01:14:49.000 Well, it's just a lack of objectivity because too many people equate intelligence with education. 0.95

01:14:54.000 I mean, it's not that education doesn't enhance intelligence.

01:14:57.000 It most certainly does.

01:14:58.000 But you have a lot of people with great minds that don't wind up using them well.

01:15:04.000 There's a lot of people out there.

01:15:06.000 Just because you have a great ability to do something doesn't mean you ever do it.

01:15:10.000 There's a lot of people that are incredible natural athletes that never get into sports.

01:15:14.000 I know people that are ridiculously physically gifted and they just don't do anything with it.

01:15:19.000 They just don't care.

01:15:20.000 They're not motivated.

01:15:21.000 So that could be the same with intelligence.

01:15:22.000 It could be the same with a lot of things.

01:15:24.000 And so my point for saying that only was that to have a mind of a fighter that could compete and succeed even at the elite levels and then the mind of a mixed martial artist that could compete and succeed at the elite level and be able to do both simultaneously,

01:15:41.000 that would be a next level type of genius.

01:15:46.000 The only way someone could do that Is they would have to be an elite specialist in one sport and then cross over at a young age.

01:15:53.000 That is a possibility.

01:15:55.000 And we have had guys like Mirko Krokop.

01:15:58.000 He was an elite kickboxer who made his way into MMA and became an elite MMA fighter.

01:16:03.000 So he was in a sport with no grappling.

01:16:05.000 And he learned takedown defense.

01:16:07.000 He learned grappling to the point where he even won some fights.

01:16:10.000 He submitted Kevin Randleman in a rematch.

01:16:12.000 So while he was doing that, was he still winning kickboxing competitions?

01:16:16.000 He would occasionally fight kickboxing fights in his career, but for the most part, most of his career up until like the later ages was all MMA after he started fighting in Pride.

01:16:26.000 So it took a few years.

01:16:28.000 It took a few years for him to, well it didn't take even a few years for him to adapt, but he was a very specific kind of kickboxer.

01:16:35.000 He was a fast twitch explosive kickboxer. 0.93

01:16:39.000 And if you have other guys that are more technicians and set things up, they'll be more fucked. 0.99

01:16:45.000 Because you want a guy that can explode. 0.98

01:16:47.000 Because he's gotta explode to get away from takedowns.

01:16:49.000 He's gotta explode to close the distance and knock a guy out with one punch.

01:16:52.000 You might only have one shot. 0.99

01:16:55.000 There's guys that are not gonna knock you out with one punch, but they'll knock you out if they could piece you up for a few rounds and fuck you up and butter you up. 0.93

01:17:02.000 Like Julio Cesar Chavez, one of the greatest fighters of all time. 0.91

01:17:05.000 Of all time!

01:17:06.000 Julio Cesar Chavez, one of the greatest of all time!

01:17:08.000 Very rarely just stepped forward and smashed a dude with one left hook and flatlined him.

01:17:12.000 No. 0.99

01:17:13.000 He beat the fuck out of you. 0.99

01:17:14.000 All night. 1.00

01:17:15.000 He tenderized your ass and then cooked you. 1.00

01:17:18.000 I mean, he was a monster. 1.00

01:17:20.000 A monster inside the ring.

01:17:21.000 But that's not a style that would translate well to MMA. Because if he couldn't stop the takedown and someone was leg-kicking him, he doesn't have enough power in his hands to just fuck you up with one shot. 0.98

01:17:36.000 A guy like Mike Tyson, even if he never fought MMA, if he's fighting against a kickboxer, his power was so substantial.

01:17:45.000 If you give him those little gloves, how are you going to keep him off of you?

01:17:49.000 I don't think you're going to keep him off you. 0.99

01:17:50.000 I think a guy like Mike Tyson could have gotten all the way to wrestlers before he was fucked. 0.92

01:17:55.000 Okay, with that said though, and school me, because maybe I'm ignorant, but how long a career is that if as soon as you get to a wrestler, you're in a lot of trouble? 0.86

01:18:05.000 Does he have to get to elite wrestlers, or can an average wrestler beat a Mike Tyson?

01:18:10.000 An average wrestler would take almost everyone down. 0.95

01:18:13.000 But you would not fight in an MMA fight without having some training on wrestling takedown defense.

01:18:19.000 And I would assume you would do some live rounds with wrestlers.

01:18:22.000 No one's just gonna jump right in.

01:18:24.000 Except James Toney.

01:18:26.000 James Toney jumped right in.

01:18:27.000 James Toney just wanted a payday, man. 1.00

01:18:31.000 He's like, look, if this dude stands in front of me, I'll fuck him up. 0.99

01:18:34.000 But if he takes me down, what am I gonna do? 1.00

01:18:36.000 He's talking about side check kicks and shit. 0.99

01:18:38.000 He was making up words. 0.99

01:18:39.000 And we weren't talking about a prime James Toney.

01:18:42.000 I'm not sure it would have went differently if we were, but it might have.

01:18:47.000 But he's a good example of why I don't want some people to fight in MMA, because James Toney's boxing was beautiful.

01:18:53.000 It was amazing.

01:18:55.000 James Toney's boxing, his ability to shoulder roll and then fire back that counter right hand...

01:19:00.000 My God, he was so smooth, man.

01:19:03.000 I think we have to accept on both sides of this combat sport equation that these are different disciplines.

01:19:11.000 It doesn't make you a lesser MMA fighter because an average boxer can beat you and vice versa.

01:19:19.000 And now if you want to come up with some hybrid sport, I mean, I've seen people try it.

01:19:22.000 I saw something like in the round and I've seen different promoters try to come up with some hybrid, but until one of those things becomes a thing, these are just apples and oranges. 0.97

01:19:33.000 You know what would be the craziest shit of all time? 0.99

01:19:35.000 The craziest shit of all time. 1.00

01:19:37.000 If Tyson Fury says, I'm just going to take a couple years off, and I'm going to learn MMA, and I'm going to come back, and I'm going to be the MMA heavyweight champion of the world, and I'm going to fuck everybody up. 0.99

01:19:48.000 Well, I'll tell you this. 0.71

01:19:50.000 The first fight...

01:19:51.000 You won't find a place big enough.

01:19:53.000 Won't find a place big enough.

01:19:54.000 There won't be a second fight.

01:19:55.000 You'll have to have the first fight on Earth.

01:19:59.000 It would just be destination Earth.

01:20:02.000 Everyone is going to want to tell me where it's Stonehenge.

01:20:06.000 We would all go.

01:20:07.000 Yeah, but I think that that would be, in terms of what people would be interested in, that would be massive.

01:20:15.000 Yeah.

01:20:15.000 But I think with Francis Ngannou's first leg kick, he would be like, oh no.

01:20:19.000 Yeah, that's my point.

01:20:20.000 Oh no, what have I done?

01:20:22.000 The interest exists, but the payoff is not going to be near worth the ticket price.

01:20:27.000 It's going to be the obvious.

01:20:28.000 His fight against Dillian White was magical.

01:20:31.000 It was magical.

01:20:32.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:20:34.000 Interesting. 0.92

01:20:35.000 It's interesting to see a guy like that big, that tall, you know, that is in his prime, you know, and just deciding he's going to step away, which I don't buy for a fucking hot second.

01:20:46.000 I don't believe that he could resist the opportunity to fight undisputed and then really retire as undisputed, undefeated...

01:20:59.000 Heavyweight champion of the world, if that is presented to him as an option and he truly believes that he can beat any heavyweight in the game, including the title holders at the current time, so whoever ends up with all the other belts except the WBC,

01:21:16.000 I'm certain he has a belief he can beat that person.

01:21:20.000 Him passing on that opportunity, I don't see it happening.

01:21:23.000 He's too competitive a guy.

01:21:25.000 It's too big a fight.

01:21:26.000 And the seduction of being able to be that one guy that ever did that, he can't pass it up.

01:21:32.000 I have a theory.

01:21:32.000 And this is not my own theory either.

01:21:34.000 This is a theory that somebody labeled at me, threw it at me.

01:21:36.000 I wish I could remember who told me this, but I think it's right.

01:21:39.000 They said, now, he made his intentions known after the fight.

01:21:42.000 He brings over Francis Ngannou and says we're going to have a hybrid fight with these four ounce gloves on.

01:21:49.000 That doesn't sound like boxing to me.

01:21:50.000 Sounds like a hybrid fight. 0.99

01:21:51.000 What do I need all these fucking boxing commissions? 0.98

01:21:56.000 Everybody's going to get their piece? 1.00

01:21:57.000 The fuck out of here with your piece. 1.00

01:21:58.000 I quit. 1.00

01:22:00.000 I retire. 0.99

01:22:01.000 Have someone fight for this bullshit title that you know is mine. 0.99

01:22:05.000 You know it's mine. 1.00

01:22:06.000 He beats his fucking title, right? 1.00

01:22:08.000 Right. 1.00

01:22:09.000 So what are you going to do?

01:22:09.000 You take it away and give it to somebody else?

01:22:11.000 Everyone's going to know Tyson Fury's still around, but he just retired, so he doesn't have to pay you. 0.80

01:22:15.000 He doesn't have to pay the WBA or WBC or whoever the fuck has the title reigns.

01:22:20.000 And to your point, he made that exact case when he came back the last time. 0.67

01:22:25.000 Like, you know, no one's ever beaten me.

01:22:27.000 I'm still a lineal champion.

01:22:29.000 I'm still the guy to beat.

01:22:30.000 And thus far, that has remained true.

01:22:33.000 No one has yet beaten him.

01:22:35.000 So if you put on those little gloves, I'm telling you, it's going to be an incredible promotion.

01:22:41.000 I'll be front row.

01:22:43.000 I'll hopefully be sitting right next to you.

01:22:45.000 But there is no way that Ngannou wins that fight.

01:22:49.000 If it's just boxing, he's going to have a really hard time hitting him.

01:22:52.000 The smaller the gloves, the more trouble he's in.

01:22:55.000 This guy is a gypsy king. 1.00

01:22:57.000 Are you kidding me?

01:22:59.000 He'd just do hand wraps if you let him.

01:23:01.000 And it's only going to make it harder for Ngannou to stay awake.

01:23:07.000 I want to see the fight. 0.95

01:23:08.000 Don't let me fuck it up. 0.58

01:23:09.000 But I'm trying to tell you, this guy's in a lot of trouble.

01:23:16.000 And Gano does have the nuclear option, though.

01:23:18.000 He really does.

01:23:19.000 He does have nuclear one-punch knockout power.

01:23:22.000 One of his knockouts of Alistair Overeem was one of the most terrifying knockouts I've ever seen in my life.

01:23:27.000 He spun Alistair's head behind when he was looking at the back of his feet.

01:23:32.000 That's how hard he hit him.

01:23:33.000 Now, is he going to land that on Tyson Fury? 0.96

01:23:35.000 It's going to be real fucking hard.

01:23:37.000 But the problem is, what kind of hybrid rules are we talking about? 0.63

01:23:40.000 Are we allowed to clinch?

01:23:42.000 Because if we're allowed to clinch, Tyson's in a lot of trouble.

01:23:45.000 Because if Francis can clinch you and can hold on to you and just punch you in the face in a way that's illegal in boxing, watch this again.

01:23:57.000 Okay, that is very impressive.

01:23:59.000 He does that to everybody.

01:24:00.000 He does that to everybody.

01:24:01.000 I know, but look at that.

01:24:02.000 Oh, it's terrible.

01:24:03.000 From the hip.

01:24:05.000 That's a Will Smith punch, man.

01:24:06.000 Ah!

01:24:08.000 It's a terrible technique in that regard, but he was doing it because he knew the opening was there and he was just winging it.

01:24:13.000 That's not going to work that way on Tyson Fury.

01:24:18.000 Absolutely not.

01:24:18.000 No chance.

01:24:19.000 But he's not going to fight that way on Tyson Fury either.

01:24:21.000 He's fighting that way on Aleister because he knows that Aleister is not in his prime.

01:24:25.000 He's just going to smash him.

01:24:27.000 He's trying to make his statement of being the top heavyweight contender in the UFC at the time when he knocked him out.

01:24:37.000 You know, last I was here, I think, what were we talking about?

01:24:40.000 Pacquiao, Conor McGregor maybe?

01:24:43.000 We were talking about some other MMA. Yeah, they were talking about that for a while.

01:24:47.000 They were talking about doing that for a while.

01:24:49.000 Yeah, and I was like, I don't want to see it.

01:24:50.000 I'm going on record right now.

01:24:52.000 I want to see it.

01:24:53.000 I have no interest in that.

01:24:53.000 I want to see it.

01:24:55.000 Small little MMA gloves and these two behemoths. 0.89

01:24:59.000 Yeah. 0.93

01:25:02.000 I want to see it, but not because it's competitive, but because that's how much a sucker I am for a heavyweight knockout.

01:25:09.000 Yeah, but even if it's not competitive, I want to see it be uncompetitive.

01:25:13.000 I want to see Tyson Fury pitch a shutout.

01:25:15.000 I want to see him lighten him up. 0.95

01:25:17.000 I want the world to see what it's like when the best motherfucker on earth, at his given thing, gets to express himself with someone who's trying it out. 0.95

01:25:28.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:25:30.000 Full-blown destruction is what happens.

01:25:34.000 Unless they allow clinching.

01:25:36.000 Okay, but they don't have to allow it.

01:25:38.000 In boxing, technically, you're not allowed to hold.

01:25:40.000 Right, but if you can hold and hit, because you can in MMA, it's called dirty boxing. 0.83

01:25:44.000 Guys grab the back of your head and smash you in the face.

01:25:47.000 Oh, you mean like... 0.99

01:25:48.000 I mean, hold on to you.

01:25:50.000 Keep you in place.

01:25:50.000 See, that's what I'm saying.

01:25:52.000 You'll get fouled for that, for sure.

01:25:54.000 Yeah, but that's not in a hybrid rule situation with MMA gloves.

01:25:57.000 If Francis Ngannou gets Tyson Fury to agree to let him hold it hit, Like, you could put a guy in a headlock and just...

01:26:04.000 100%.

01:26:04.000 Oh, yeah, no.

01:26:05.000 Yeah, see, that's what I'm saying. 0.99

01:26:06.000 If you could hold onto a guy, if you could just get an overhook, and just completely tie up that arm, and just smash him in the face. 0.63

01:26:12.000 If you could get him in a collar tie, where you're holding the back of his neck, and you're smashing him in the face...

01:26:19.000 That's legal in MMA. That happens all the time. 0.99

01:26:21.000 I would say the closest, you know, ironically, the closest I've seen to that in boxing that was pretty effective and not entirely illegal, why it have been Klitschko-Fury.

01:26:33.000 Like, don't forget, that was a very clinch-heavy fight.

01:26:36.000 Yes.

01:26:36.000 And Fury was able to make the fight dirty boxing inside.

01:26:40.000 Klitschko made everything clinch-heavy.

01:26:41.000 Jab, clinch. 0.99

01:26:42.000 Jab, right hand, clinch. 0.68

01:26:43.000 But only Fury was able to turn that against him.

01:26:46.000 Yeah.

01:26:46.000 So even in this scenario, I get, okay, that gives Ngannou a much better chance because that's something he's skilled at.

01:26:54.000 But Tyson is not unskilled at that.

01:26:57.000 That's how he won all those belts in the first place.

01:26:59.000 Right, true.

01:26:59.000 And being the Gypsy King, those bare-knuckle travelers are known for having fights bare-knuckle.

01:27:06.000 That's the whole thing. 0.99

01:27:08.000 They have a fucking whole culture behind it. 0.99

01:27:10.000 Bare-knuckle fighting in the Gypsies goes back forever! 1.00

01:27:12.000 That's what I'm saying.

01:27:14.000 He's like, you know, please Mr. Ingato, don't throw me in that briar pack. 0.97

01:27:19.000 Smaller gloves, oh no!

01:27:23.000 I would love to see it, no matter what.

01:27:25.000 And I love Francis Ngannou, so I'd like him to get a giant payday, and I think it would be an enormous payday.

01:27:29.000 Oh, huge.

01:27:30.000 Huge.

01:27:30.000 It would be spectacular.

01:27:32.000 Francis Ngannou versus the Gypsy King for the undisputed baddest man on the planet. 1.00

01:27:39.000 Oh my god, it'd be so much money.

01:27:42.000 That's what I want for Francis.

01:27:44.000 And if it's little gloves, man. 1.00

01:27:46.000 You can't fuck around with little gloves. 0.99

01:27:48.000 You know, we can't talk about Shakur Stevenson without mentioning the other fight on the night. 1.00

01:27:57.000 I still didn't watch that girl fight. 1.00

01:27:59.000 It was crazy good, but it wasn't the fight of the night.

01:28:03.000 I still haven't seen it.

01:28:04.000 Did you just say you didn't watch that girl fight?

01:28:05.000 The girl fight, yeah. 1.00

01:28:07.000 It's a girl fight, right? 1.00

01:28:09.000 It's a women's boxing world title, unification, undisputed bout, Joe.

01:28:15.000 But they were ladies. 1.00

01:28:16.000 I didn't watch that fight.

01:28:18.000 I heard it's amazing.

01:28:20.000 It's fight of the year.

01:28:21.000 It's fight of the year.

01:28:23.000 No male-female distinction.

01:28:27.000 But again, like I was saying, I don't have time to research climate change.

01:28:30.000 I don't have time to research fracking.

01:28:31.000 Sometimes I don't have time to watch every fight.

01:28:34.000 You know?

01:28:35.000 All right.

01:28:36.000 Well, I'm not...

01:28:39.000 At all lesser a fan of women's boxing than I am of men's boxing.

01:28:44.000 And so the journey that women's boxing has taken to there is a competitive field of women's fighters, only now I think are we experiencing that.

01:28:53.000 We've had some...

01:28:54.000 Spikes, we've had some stars, obviously.

01:28:57.000 The coal miner's daughter, Christy Martin and Leila Lee, Lucia Riker.

01:29:02.000 The names that we know for sure have had their moments, but I don't think ever was there a time like there is now where there are so many good women able to box and making competitive fields. 0.99

01:29:17.000 Clarissa Shields is one of the guests on my show and I would have to say in this era she's definitely a pioneer that her accomplishments in the Olympics to gold medals her verbose nature and her ability to back it up makes her a star in the sport and it inspires another generation of women to be like you know this is something that's open to me a lane I can I can pursue yeah these ladies Man, 0.98

01:29:42.000 I'm telling you, Katie Taylor and Amanda Serrano put on as good a boxing match as any two guys could have ever hoped to do. 0.58

01:29:50.000 To a sold out, not the theater, the actual garden, sold out Madison Square Garden, and every person got value for dollar that night. 0.99

01:30:01.000 Damn. 0.98

01:30:01.000 So we might be looking at a new era in boxing where, you know, you won't be so cavalier about missing a women's fight like that. 0.98

01:30:10.000 Like, these girls are, like, coming... 1.00

01:30:12.000 I'm not Cavalier.

01:30:13.000 I'm just busy.

01:30:13.000 I try to watch as much as I can, but I've been overwhelmed the last few weeks.

01:30:19.000 Look, I was always a fan of people that are good.

01:30:23.000 I don't care if it's women or men. 1.00

01:30:27.000 I like watching girl fights in UFC. There's a big girl fight this weekend. 1.00

01:30:31.000 Carla Esparza versus Rose Namajunas.

01:30:34.000 It's a giant girl fight for the strawweight title. 1.00

01:30:38.000 I'm pumped about it.

01:30:39.000 I watched as much MMA as possible, and to your point, if she was on the other foot, I probably missed a lot of very important MMA fights because I don't have time.

01:30:49.000 Also, what is going on?

01:30:50.000 Whose fault is this?

01:30:51.000 What's going on, you?

01:30:53.000 I feel like you know.

01:30:54.000 Why is it that every time there's a big boxing match on a Saturday, there seems to be, just coincidentally, a big UFC fight on that same Saturday?

01:31:04.000 Well, this is May Cinco de Mayo weekend.

01:31:06.000 Yes.

01:31:07.000 Cinco de Mayo weekend.

01:31:09.000 Boxing always has big fights.

01:31:10.000 Yeah.

01:31:10.000 They always have big fights.

01:31:11.000 But here we are again with the UFC fight.

01:31:13.000 Same night. 0.96

01:31:14.000 I know for a fact the UFC scheduled this a long fucking time ago. 0.96

01:31:18.000 And they have... 0.92

01:31:18.000 Because it's in Phoenix, too. 0.92

01:31:20.000 It's not even in Vegas or one of the places we go a lot.

01:31:23.000 But we have been going to Phoenix.

01:31:25.000 See, there's some places that still had restrictions.

01:31:27.000 And so they stopped going to those places that still had restrictions.

01:31:31.000 But the UFC puts on a big pay-per-view every month.

01:31:34.000 Right, but maybe I'm making too much of this.

01:31:38.000 It's not a conspiracy.

01:31:39.000 They're not doing it, no. 0.91

01:31:39.000 Listen, that would be a dumb thing. 0.91

01:31:41.000 Because why would you ever want to go back against the wall with Canelo Alvarez having a pay-per-view? 0.99

01:31:50.000 When you want all those Latino fans, are you fucking crazy how much money that is? 0.98

01:31:53.000 I think the same thing. 0.99

01:31:54.000 That's why I can't figure it out.

01:31:55.000 But they do it.

01:31:56.000 They know.

01:31:57.000 But they didn't do it because of that.

01:31:58.000 They did it in spite of that.

01:32:01.000 Because one beautiful thing about streaming services like ESPN Plus is that if I can just stay, don't talk to me.

01:32:08.000 If I can just avoid spoilers, I can get home and I can watch it anytime I want and I play it like it's happening live.

01:32:15.000 I love that.

01:32:16.000 Yes.

01:32:17.000 It's very hard to do.

01:32:19.000 But if you get pay-per-view and it's on a DVR, you've got to go back, you've got to record it, you've got to fast-forward through it and get to the spot.

01:32:28.000 It's a little more complicated because you've got to go home.

01:32:31.000 You've got to watch it on television.

01:32:34.000 There's no way they would want competition.

01:32:37.000 If they could have a big pay-per-view event, like this one this weekend, and not have it go back-to-back against Canelo Alvarez, they definitely would.

01:32:46.000 That's the best way for business.

01:32:47.000 Because if you have two options, you can't watch both things.

01:32:50.000 Most people are going to order one.

01:32:52.000 They're going to order one.

01:32:53.000 That's right.

01:32:53.000 Most people.

01:32:54.000 And if you're a boxing fan, Canelo Alvarez.

01:32:57.000 And Bival's a real threat. 0.99

01:32:58.000 Big-ass fucking Russian light heavyweight. 0.99

01:33:00.000 Real talented, undefeated, real challenge. 1.00

01:33:05.000 Well, you gotta do.

01:33:06.000 They're not doing that.

01:33:07.000 It's not a conspiracy.

01:33:08.000 It happens so frequently, though.

01:33:09.000 It's because we put on a lot of shows. 0.98

01:33:11.000 The UFC puts on a show every fucking month, almost every week. 0.98

01:33:14.000 How about that? 0.99

01:33:14.000 Because UFC has shows at the Apex Center. 0.99

01:33:16.000 They have their own small arena in Vegas.

01:33:19.000 And so a lot of the fights, all the fights that we did under quarantine, shit, we did a gang of fights at the Apex Center. 0.71

01:33:27.000 World title fights at the Apex Center with no audience. 0.91

01:33:29.000 Now, you know, I say that to say this.

01:33:31.000 I'm a big proponent of the Sunday night boxing match, which is not some, like, bending of the knee to give away Saturday night to the MMA, but in my regard, let them fucking have it, Sunday night is the night for fights.

01:33:47.000 That's because you're single and you go out on Saturday night.

01:33:54.000 If you're married, have the boys over. 1.00

01:33:57.000 Have a fucking fight night. 1.00

01:33:58.000 Oh, that's hilarious. 1.00

01:34:00.000 Could that possibly be true?

01:34:01.000 Could that be my whole blind spot?

01:34:04.000 Well, not only that, you're best friends with Dave Chappelle.

01:34:05.000 Saturday night, you're out doing shows. 0.99

01:34:07.000 Like, fuck, I don't want to miss the fight. 0.99

01:34:09.000 So you're trying to catch the fight on an iPad or something. 1.00

01:34:11.000 Oh, no!

01:34:12.000 I've had a huge blind spot. 1.00

01:34:16.000 Oh man, I was so teed up to give my bitch. 1.00

01:34:19.000 It doesn't make any sense. 0.99

01:34:20.000 Of course Saturday night's the way to go.

01:34:21.000 When people look for entertainment, Saturday night's the night you want.

01:34:24.000 Because Friday night, even when we do shows, right?

01:34:27.000 Friday night shows, I always tell people, like when young guys are opening for me, I go, you always got to think that that Friday night late show, these people are tired, man.

01:34:34.000 They've been up all day.

01:34:35.000 They worked all day.

01:34:36.000 They got up at 7 o'clock in the morning. 1.00

01:34:38.000 They fucking busted their ass. 1.00

01:34:39.000 They commuted. 1.00

01:34:40.000 They took care of their family.

01:34:41.000 They got out!

01:34:41.000 Finally got out.

01:34:42.000 And now they're here, and they're fucking exhausted. 0.97

01:34:44.000 So you can't dilly-dally on them 10 o'clock shows. 0.98

01:34:47.000 You gotta come out guns blazing.

01:34:49.000 Right.

01:34:49.000 You know?

01:34:50.000 And I think Saturday's the entertainment day for people.

01:34:53.000 They slept in.

01:34:54.000 They don't have to go to church if they're religious.

01:34:56.000 They sleep in. 1.00

01:34:57.000 They wake up, finally, one fucking day where they just don't have an alarm. 1.00

01:35:01.000 The one day! 0.99

01:35:02.000 And then you're hanging out with your buddies.

01:35:04.000 Hey, we're gonna go see Chappelle.

01:35:06.000 Let's start drinking.

01:35:06.000 And then they start drinking, and then they're out.

01:35:08.000 And then they're out having a great time.

01:35:10.000 That's for a fight.

01:35:11.000 That's for anything.

01:35:12.000 Saturday night is the night.

01:35:13.000 See, I'm thinking, because of what you just said, there's so much Saturday night competition and so many other places you want to be instead of front of a TV. If you got tickets to the fight, well, that's a different thing.

01:35:23.000 But if I want to stay home and watch a fight, even with my seven closest friends, that does not compete with the things I could be doing out in the world when I don't have to wake up in the morning.

01:35:34.000 It depends on who's fighting.

01:35:35.000 But Sunday night. 0.98

01:35:36.000 If Marvin Hagler's fighting Sugar Ray Leonard and it's Saturday night, you want to be in front of that fucking TV and your hands are going to be sweaty. 0.99

01:35:45.000 You're going to be like, holy shit, it's about to go down. 0.98

01:35:48.000 But that's the same is true for Sunday. 0.98

01:35:49.000 And people are home on Sunday evenings.

01:35:51.000 More people are home on Sunday evenings anyway.

01:35:54.000 Sunday's okay.

01:35:55.000 I don't hate it on Sunday.

01:35:56.000 If they want to fight on Sunday.

01:35:58.000 Wait a minute.

01:35:58.000 Didn't Tyson and Roy Jones fight on an off night?

01:36:02.000 Yes!

01:36:03.000 What night did they fight?

01:36:04.000 Wasn't it?

01:36:04.000 Was it Sunday or Thursday?

01:36:06.000 It was an off night.

01:36:08.000 It might have been Sunday.

01:36:10.000 I think it might have been Sunday because this might have been even where I first was like, you know what?

01:36:15.000 That does work.

01:36:16.000 That's just for your own lifestyle.

01:36:19.000 It's your own lifestyle, dude.

01:36:21.000 I guarantee you.

01:36:22.000 You're just, you know.

01:36:24.000 You're best friends with one of the greatest comedians ever walked the face of the earth and you do shows with them all the time.

01:36:28.000 You're always hanging out.

01:36:30.000 Well, that's not true.

01:36:31.000 Saturday night. 0.99

01:36:31.000 You don't want to fucking go somewhere, watch a fucking fight when it could be Sunday when you got the night off. 0.99

01:36:36.000 It's just personal convenience. 1.00

01:36:38.000 I'm okay.

01:36:38.000 I will admit that there may be some personal gain to me in it, but I'm about the people, Joe.

01:36:43.000 This is like- You also don't have a regular job, so you don't have to go to work Monday morning, commute and all that.

01:36:47.000 That's what most people don't want.

01:36:49.000 Can't you just let me have this?

01:36:52.000 Sunday's the day of rest.

01:36:53.000 It's the Lord's Day.

01:36:55.000 You know, the two promoters of that girl fight, as you put it. 0.99

01:36:59.000 The girl fight?

01:37:00.000 Yes.

01:37:01.000 Eddie Hearn.

01:37:01.000 You're going to make me have to have those girls on and apologize.

01:37:04.000 Shit. 1.00

01:37:06.000 And Jake Paul. 1.00

01:37:08.000 Wait a minute.

01:37:09.000 Jake Paul was a promoter?

01:37:10.000 Yeah, without Jake Paul, that fight doesn't happen.

01:37:12.000 He's, you know...

01:37:13.000 He's like a full-on promoter now?

01:37:15.000 Yeah, absolutely.

01:37:17.000 Look, the kid's got to hustle.

01:37:19.000 You got to give it to him.

01:37:20.000 The kid's got hustle.

01:37:21.000 He is a successful hustler.

01:37:23.000 I don't even know.

01:37:23.000 I think he might be...

01:37:24.000 He's got hustle.

01:37:25.000 He's not a hustler.

01:37:26.000 This guy's a legitimate businessman. 0.83

01:37:28.000 Yeah, a legitimate businessman, but he makes so much money doing other shit that the fact that he wants to do that as well and promote fights as well, I'm impressed.

01:37:38.000 He put her on his undercard.

01:37:41.000 She got a lot of visibility there.

01:37:42.000 People in boxing, of course, are already familiar with her, but it gave her much bigger notoriety by being on his cars. 0.99

01:37:48.000 And then he and Eddie Hearn put this fight together.

01:37:51.000 Again, I can't stress it enough, a sold-out, an actual Madison Square Garden, sold-out main arena fight.

01:37:57.000 That's incredible.

01:37:58.000 Good for him.

01:37:59.000 That was value for dollars.

01:38:01.000 Sunglasses.

01:38:02.000 Yeah, he's doing the same.

01:38:03.000 It's the only thing.

01:38:04.000 I like it, man.

01:38:05.000 I don't think this fight happens without him.

01:38:07.000 You know, the conversation he had with Eddie Hearn, where he said, I will knock out any one of your guys that has under 10 fights.

01:38:14.000 Right.

01:38:14.000 He goes, whoever you want to have, bring me any guy that you have that's under 10 fights.

01:38:17.000 You can see Eddie Hearn like, shit. 0.99

01:38:20.000 He's kind of stuck there. 1.00

01:38:21.000 You think?

01:38:22.000 Yep.

01:38:22.000 Because those guys under 10 fights, like, what if Jake Paul knocks one of them out?

01:38:27.000 Like, what if you get a guy that, like, hasn't been tested, and maybe has some promise, and maybe gets wrapped up in the hype, and maybe gets a little nervous, and this is his first chance at a big, big, big show, and Jake Paul can crack.

01:38:41.000 Yeah.

01:38:42.000 A hundred percent. 1.00

01:38:43.000 That knockout of Tyron Woodley is legit as fuck. 1.00

01:38:47.000 He can crack. 0.99

01:38:48.000 But Eddie's point in that interview, and I think the point that just about every boxing aficionado would say is that Tyrone Woodley is not a boxer.

01:39:00.000 Yep.

01:39:01.000 And nor is Ben Askren, who he knocked out as well.

01:39:03.000 Right.

01:39:04.000 We would have gotten some answers if Tyson Fury didn't get injured, or excuse me, if Tommy Fury didn't get injured leading up to that fight because he was the initial opponent.

01:39:13.000 So if he fought him, we would have got some real answers.

01:39:16.000 And that would be an interesting fight.

01:39:19.000 Agreed.

01:39:19.000 And to your point, I saw people in boxing, when that fight seemed to actually was going to happen, start hedging their bets.

01:39:25.000 Well, Fury isn't this, Tommy isn't that.

01:39:28.000 I don't buy any of that.

01:39:29.000 I think Tommy is absolutely a legitimate boxing opponent for Jake Paul.

01:39:35.000 Entertain this perspective.

01:39:36.000 If Jake Paul wasn't Jake Paul, If he wasn't this YouTube guy, he was just a boxer.

01:39:42.000 And you see a boxer knock out the former UFC welterweight champion, not just the former, but one of the best ever, knock him out with one punch like that.

01:39:50.000 You'd be like, oh man, have you seen this Jake Paul dude coming up? 0.98

01:39:53.000 He's fucking for real. 0.99

01:39:54.000 Because nothing about watching him fight, to me, screams like he's in over his head. 1.00

01:39:59.000 Nothing.

01:40:00.000 He looks like a real boxer.

01:40:01.000 He looks like a real boxer.

01:40:02.000 He doesn't look like a guy who's attempting boxing.

01:40:05.000 That's the difference.

01:40:06.000 The feints, the foot movement, the way he lands shots, he fights like a boxer.

01:40:11.000 He doesn't fight like a guy who's trying to box in a celebrity boxing match.

01:40:16.000 He fights like a boxer.

01:40:17.000 So if he wasn't that guy, I'm saying if he wasn't that big YouTube star, and you just saw him as a boxing contender, you'd be like, that dude's got dynamite in his hands.

01:40:26.000 Okay, so there's two points to be made here.

01:40:28.000 First of all, if a guy in his pro debut and the first five fights of his career are knocking out people whose names we know, you're absolutely right. 0.99

01:40:38.000 That person is going to get a huge amount of attention and everybody's going to be like, wow, who the fuck is this guy?

01:40:44.000 But also, if a guy who is on the track to be somebody who has potential from the Olympics or he's got a great amateur record, we're going to turn this guy into somebody. 0.66

01:40:57.000 In their first fights, they're fighting guys who are like 5 and 27. They are fighting other debut opponents who don't have a great track trajectory in front of them.

01:41:10.000 They're fighting tomato canes, bums, you know...

01:41:14.000 Just completely not competitive.

01:41:18.000 Just to get experience.

01:41:20.000 And that's fine, right?

01:41:22.000 So when we expect Jake Paul to be fighting higher level competition, it's not because he has under 10 fights. 1.00

01:41:30.000 It's because he talks a lot of shit. 0.99

01:41:33.000 Yeah, but that's also why we're talking about him. 1.00

01:41:35.000 And that's exactly true.

01:41:36.000 But I think on both sides of the equation, we've got to admit that Young fighter under five fights isn't fighting great competition So if you're calling Jake Paul a legitimate boxer and then you're expecting him to do what legitimate boxers do I'm not sure he's not doing that and probably more.

01:41:55.000 That's what I'm saying about the knockout of Tyron Woodley Because it was just a regular boxer who's just coming up and what does he have six fights?

01:42:02.000 Yes, I don't know.

01:42:03.000 Something like this.

01:42:04.000 What does Jake Paul have?

01:42:06.000 Yeah.

01:42:07.000 Oh, yeah Something like that, right?

01:42:09.000 No.

01:42:10.000 I think that was his six.

01:42:11.000 I was looking at a post he had where he said 6-0 coming soon.

01:42:14.000 6-0.

01:42:15.000 So he's got five fights.

01:42:16.000 Now, anybody who had just five fights was doing small cards and then knocks out Tyron Woodley.

01:42:22.000 Tyron Woodley says, I'm going to try boxing. 0.99

01:42:24.000 And some guy starches him with one punch and talks mad shit. 1.00

01:42:27.000 You'd be like, wow, that guy's hot. 1.00

01:42:28.000 Right.

01:42:29.000 But the fighter doesn't... 0.70

01:42:31.000 A 5-0 fighter who's knocked out five guys isn't...

01:42:36.000 Saying, I'm ready for Canelo.

01:42:39.000 Like, no guy... 1.00

01:42:40.000 But you do if you're crazy and you just talk a lot of shit. 1.00

01:42:43.000 It's not like Canelo's waiting to fight him. 1.00

01:42:46.000 Canelo's got a lot of things he's doing.

01:42:47.000 He doesn't have any time to be waiting around on Jake Paul.

01:42:51.000 He's not really going to fight him.

01:42:52.000 He's got to fight Golovkin in the rematch if he beats Bival.

01:42:56.000 He's got things lined up.

01:42:57.000 He's talking about fighting Usyk. 1.00

01:42:59.000 Have you seen that shit? 1.00

01:43:00.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:43:01.000 And he's interested in that.

01:43:02.000 And so am I. Yeah.

01:43:04.000 So am I. Yeah.

01:43:05.000 And I see Eddie Hearn trying to put that together.

01:43:07.000 Please put that together.

01:43:09.000 Please put that together.

01:43:11.000 I'm interested.

01:43:12.000 Imagine if he wins.

01:43:15.000 The trajectory Canelo is on.

01:43:18.000 Look at this.

01:43:18.000 Canelo Alvarez expresses interest in heavyweight title fight with Alexander Usyk at 201 pound catchweight.

01:43:25.000 Which, by the way, Usyk used to be a cruiserweight champion.

01:43:27.000 The fact that not only is Canelo interested in this fight verbally, but I actually believe him.

01:43:35.000 Most fighters that would say something as crazy as that would be like, alright, well, he's trying to get some headlines, he's trying to say something that's not going to happen.

01:43:43.000 I think Jake Paul probably knows he's not getting that Canelo fight anytime soon, but to say something crazy like that to show that much confidence in yourself is going to get people's attention.

01:43:54.000 This guy means it.

01:43:56.000 And the opponents that he's chosen thus far, with the ability that he has to guide his own career, you can't take anything from him.

01:44:04.000 Not a thing.

01:44:05.000 I don't know that I could name another fighter, certainly not in the modern era, that has challenged himself more consistently than Canelo Alvarez.

01:44:15.000 Absolutely.

01:44:17.000 Yeah, absolutely.

01:44:18.000 You can't criticize who he's facing.

01:44:22.000 And no matter who he faces, is it going to be somebody else you want him to fight?

01:44:26.000 But you can't say that the guy in front of him right now isn't a worthy opponent.

01:44:30.000 And he goes one quality fight to another quality fight to another quality fight.

01:44:35.000 Yep.

01:44:36.000 Bivol is a hell of a fighter.

01:44:38.000 Mm-hmm.

01:44:39.000 The weight that they're fighting at, 175 pounds?

01:44:42.000 Mm-hmm.

01:44:44.000 For Canelo to just decide to fight at 175 pounds again in a title holder of Beevil's ability...

01:44:52.000 Which is a step up of Kovalev.

01:44:53.000 Kovalev was on the slide.

01:44:55.000 When he knocked out Kovalev, Kovalev was kind of on the slide.

01:44:58.000 Yeah, and the challenge in it, and people would try to criticize that, but I'm like, he's 175 pounds even on the slide.

01:45:05.000 That's a huge challenge for Canelo.

01:45:08.000 And, on my scorecard anyway, Canelo was losing the fight.

01:45:12.000 Yeah.

01:45:13.000 Until the knockout.

01:45:15.000 Yeah.

01:45:15.000 And so for him to decide to dabble in those deep waters again, if he was losing a fight to Kovalev, who, you know, arguably has less skills than Beevil, although bigger, I think.

01:45:25.000 The one thing is that Kovalev is a big 75. Beevil is not.

01:45:31.000 I think these two guys are going to be about the same size on fight night.

01:45:36.000 So with the exception of the weight differential that happened, or the size differential with Kovalev, the skill matches up much better with Bivol.

01:45:47.000 If he beats Bivol and acquires another title at 175 pounds, you have to actually start talking about Canelo.

01:45:57.000 Already in the annals of history, like where does this guy place now before he retires?

01:46:03.000 No matter what happens from that day on, this guy's got to be in the conversation.

01:46:09.000 And if he goes up and he beats Usyk, now you're in crazy town.

01:46:13.000 If he goes up and fights Usyk...

01:46:16.000 Does Usyk have an automatic with Anthony Joshua?

01:46:20.000 Are they exercising that?

01:46:21.000 Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

01:46:23.000 So they would have to pay Joshua step-aside money.

01:46:25.000 Yeah, I don't see that happening.

01:46:27.000 I do.

01:46:28.000 I do.

01:46:29.000 You never know.

01:46:33.000 Didn't they offer Anthony Joshua step-aside money for Usyk to fight Tyson Fury?

01:46:38.000 Wasn't that on the table?

01:46:39.000 Yeah.

01:46:40.000 How much did they want to offer him?

01:46:41.000 I mean, you know, there's only rumors, right?

01:46:45.000 What'd you rumor?

01:46:46.000 What'd you hear?

01:46:48.000 I heard 10 million all the way up to like 30. 10 million to just chill?

01:46:53.000 Ready to chill?

01:46:54.000 But who knows what the truth is?

01:46:55.000 The only guys who know the truth is the guys who got offered the money.

01:46:58.000 Two versions of it right there.

01:46:59.000 Okay, two versions of it.

01:47:00.000 Anthony Joshua denies step-aside deal.

01:47:04.000 He denied that he's agreed.

01:47:06.000 Okay, but they might have offered it to him. 0.93

01:47:08.000 A report earlier this week claimed that Joshua was close to accepting 15 million, oh, 15 million pounds, 20 million American dollars Deal at his end, but he's since hit back at this and branded it bullshit.

01:47:23.000 Hearn told DAZN Boxing Show, there's been an offer, there's been several discussions with myself.

01:47:30.000 Okay, so he wasn't close to accepting.

01:47:33.000 That's not true.

01:47:34.000 But they did offer.

01:47:35.000 Well, see, here's the thing.

01:47:36.000 We don't actually know.

01:47:37.000 Like, those conversations are behind closed doors, and no one's going to tell you what actually happened, right?

01:47:43.000 So we know that offers were on the table.

01:47:45.000 I do believe it was a possibility, though.

01:47:47.000 Now, let's not forget, Joshua was shopping for trainers.

01:47:50.000 If he doesn't take that fight immediately, That doesn't mean anything other than he is being smart.

01:47:57.000 If he doesn't have a trainer that he's confident in at the time, why would you immediately run into the rematch?

01:48:03.000 Also, Usyk was fighting in the war in Ukraine up until like a week ago.

01:48:06.000 Yeah, that's current.

01:48:07.000 But while we were having that discussion, the Ukraine war wasn't even like a thing.

01:48:10.000 That's true.

01:48:12.000 Wouldn't you take $20 million to not fight all day, especially with that shallow pool of talent in the heavyweight division?

01:48:19.000 He's the top of the food chain.

01:48:21.000 He's always going to be a guy.

01:48:22.000 You need a big opponent for a big fight.

01:48:24.000 Anthony Joshua's there. 0.78

01:48:25.000 Who the fuck else is there? 0.86

01:48:27.000 There's Anthony Joshua, Deontay Wilder, Luis Ortiz is 150,000 years old, right? 0.97

01:48:33.000 And he's still in the conversation, right?

01:48:35.000 Andy Ruiz hasn't won, well he did, he beat Chris, what's his name?

01:48:42.000 Rumor.

01:48:42.000 Oh, Areola.

01:48:43.000 Areola.

01:48:44.000 Rumor that he asked for more.

01:48:47.000 Oh, heavyweight champion Tyson Fury is said to have gone berserk when his boxing rival Anthony Joshua asked for an extra 3.7 million pounds in step-aside money for the Usyk rematch.

01:48:58.000 So he wanted more than the 20. But if you could take that just to like...

01:49:05.000 Who do you have?

01:49:06.000 You have Andrew Ruiz is fighting.

01:49:08.000 He is fighting Luis Ortiz, which is an interesting fight, right?

01:49:12.000 Because Andy Ruiz is getting in shape now.

01:49:14.000 He looks good.

01:49:15.000 He's lost a lot of weight.

01:49:16.000 He's taking it more serious.

01:49:17.000 But Anthony Joshua beat him in the rematch.

01:49:22.000 That's just how it is.

01:49:23.000 Yeah, like a clinical beating.

01:49:25.000 Yeah, he had his moment in the sun, and then he came back, and he also was like 380 pounds during the fight.

01:49:30.000 Yeah, he admitted that he didn't train, he didn't commit to that, which is like the cardinal sin of boxing.

01:49:36.000 Being beaten in a heavyweight fight is not...

01:49:40.000 Something to be ashamed of unless the reason you were beaten is because you didn't prepare.

01:49:45.000 That's a disrespect to everything the sport means.

01:49:48.000 After the biggest victory of your life, changed your life.

01:49:50.000 You'd knocked out the heavyweight champion of the world.

01:49:53.000 But my point is, Anthony Joshua is always top of the food chain.

01:49:58.000 If he just takes 20 million bucks, stays top of the food chain, got 20 million in his pocket, more time to train, More time to, like, whatever the corrections and changes this new trainer is going to give him.

01:50:09.000 More time for those to set in.

01:50:11.000 More time to recover.

01:50:13.000 All those things are true, but I think Anthony Joshua is very aware of the inconsistent nature of boxing.

01:50:23.000 And you can't count on anything tomorrow.

01:50:26.000 Like, nothing.

01:50:27.000 That's why you should take 20 free million dollars.

01:50:30.000 Free 20 million bucks.

01:50:32.000 I mean, I guess to your point, if he had taken that step-aside money, the fight still hasn't happened.

01:50:36.000 Right.

01:50:37.000 But what if...

01:50:38.000 Okay, let's say he takes the step-aside money, 20 million.

01:50:40.000 This guy is not, like, missing any meals.

01:50:43.000 So 20 million in his bank account right now isn't going to make a change in his lifestyle.

01:50:47.000 Don't you think he lives a luxurious lifestyle that needs to be funded?

01:50:51.000 Yes, yes.

01:50:51.000 But Joe, if he passes on that opportunity and Usyk fights Fury...

01:50:59.000 Fury beats Usyk.

01:51:01.000 Fury retires.

01:51:03.000 Those belts scatter across the pond like little lilies.

01:51:06.000 No, he retires, then Usyk and Joshua rematch for the title.

01:51:10.000 It's simple math.

01:51:11.000 No, but that's not how...

01:51:12.000 This is not MMA. 100%.

01:51:13.000 This is not MMA. No, no, no, no.

01:51:17.000 Then each sanctioning body gets to decide... 1.00

01:51:21.000 Fuck that. 1.00

01:51:21.000 Ring Magazine. 1.00

01:51:22.000 Call Ring Magazine up. 1.00

01:51:23.000 Guys, let's cut the bullshit. 1.00

01:51:24.000 I'm only fighting for your title. 1.00

01:51:26.000 Fuck all these people. 1.00

01:51:27.000 In legacy matters to Joshua, pride, I think, might have been part of the equation. 1.00

01:51:31.000 To be a boxer at all, you've got to be a bit delusional.

01:51:35.000 He can't accept that maybe it's better for him to step aside or lose the opportunity to reclaim all your titles at once.

01:51:43.000 I feel like there should be one boxing champion in each weight class.

01:51:47.000 Of course there should, buddy.

01:51:48.000 You know what I mean?

01:51:49.000 This whole governing body thing doesn't make any sense if there's so many of them.

01:51:53.000 There should be one news channel that tells you all the truth.

01:51:57.000 Yeah, but that's different.

01:51:58.000 No, we're talking about a 147-pound world welterweight champion, right?

01:52:02.000 There's one.

01:52:03.000 There's only one.

01:52:04.000 You can't be world champion if that guy's world champion.

01:52:05.000 That's crazy.

01:52:06.000 Yeah.

01:52:07.000 That's crazy, right?

01:52:08.000 When they do that in MMA, I cringe.

01:52:12.000 Which belt is the belt then?

01:52:14.000 Ring Magazine.

01:52:16.000 Okay. 1.00

01:52:17.000 Fuck everybody else. 1.00

01:52:18.000 How about that? 1.00

01:52:19.000 They're historians of the sport.

01:52:21.000 They're people that follow the sport.

01:52:24.000 They don't make a living just off of sanctioning people, but the Ring Magazine's a cherished belt.

01:52:30.000 You know all that?

01:52:30.000 It's the only publication that has a cherished title attached to it.

01:52:35.000 All that would really require is that everybody agree.

01:52:38.000 Like, if fighters stop fighting for the other titles, and if people stop...

01:52:43.000 This is how we get killed.

01:52:46.000 There's so much money involved in sanctioning bodies.

01:52:49.000 Let me rephrase that.

01:52:51.000 If that's what you want, Joe...

01:52:53.000 That's not what I want.

01:52:54.000 I would like four or five more people to step in and start sanctioning fights. 1.00

01:52:58.000 More belts, the better.

01:52:59.000 As much as I agree with that, and I do...

01:53:03.000 I have been seduced now into this undisputed kind of world of, well, you know what?

01:53:11.000 Having to go around and collect all the belts to get, like, there's champions, and then there's, like, undisputed, which is king of kings, which is, like, the guy who's been, and that's the elusive, like, moniker everybody wants now.

01:53:25.000 Right.

01:53:26.000 So there is something too—I think there's too many.

01:53:29.000 Like, I would be far happier if there was just three, period.

01:53:33.000 And no international champion and no, like, regional interim, but just three titles in every division, and then the undisputed champion if you can get all three.

01:53:45.000 That might be something that's more doable, and I kind of like the idea that just winning one belt, beating one guy, doesn't necessarily make you king of the division.

01:53:55.000 I'm giving you an argument for you, for your position on this.

01:54:00.000 This is what I like.

01:54:01.000 You can't have Usyk vs. 1.00

01:54:03.000 Joshua and Tyson Fury vs.

01:54:06.000 Deontay Wilder for heavyweight titles because they can't all fight each other.

01:54:11.000 If there was only one heavyweight title, then those fights aren't heavyweight world titles.

01:54:16.000 They have to be heavyweight world titles.

01:54:17.000 Usyk vs.

01:54:18.000 Joshua 100% is a heavyweight world title fight.

01:54:21.000 Tyson Fury vs.

01:54:23.000 Deontay Wilder is 100% a heavyweight world title fight.

01:54:25.000 There you go.

01:54:26.000 But you can't have those fights as world title fights if only one guy holds the heavyweight title.

01:54:30.000 That's true.

01:54:31.000 We had there what I like to call the final four of boxing when we thought that this thing was actually gonna bottleneck and everything was gonna work out perfectly.

01:54:40.000 That was maybe the most exciting idea in heavyweight boxing.

01:54:45.000 In decades.

01:54:46.000 In decades!

01:54:47.000 And you just can't trust boxing to get out of its own way and let a series of fights happen the way they should go.

01:54:55.000 Well, there's still potential.

01:54:56.000 I'm not...

01:54:57.000 I really think that Tyson Fury, like, I forgot who fucking told me that, that that's how they were going to do it.

01:55:02.000 I wish I could remember. 0.53

01:55:03.000 But that Tyson Fury's going to give up his titles.

01:55:05.000 I've retired!

01:55:07.000 And then he's going to fight Francis Ngannou with the little gloves on, make a fuck pile of money, and then take a little time off, and then, oh, I'm back. 0.78

01:55:15.000 I changed my mind.

01:55:16.000 I'd like to fight for the title again.

01:55:18.000 But then what happens to that WBC title? 0.98

01:55:20.000 Who gives a fuck? 0.99

01:55:21.000 Let it float. 1.00

01:55:23.000 Throw it in the river. 1.00

01:55:23.000 Who gives a shit? 1.00

01:55:24.000 Just keep moving. 1.00

01:55:26.000 He comes back. 0.99

01:55:27.000 Who gives a fuck who's got the title? 0.98

01:55:28.000 Tyson Fury's back, baby. 0.99

01:55:30.000 I've never been beaten.

01:55:32.000 Okay, but do you agree?

01:55:33.000 Let's say Tyson Fury comes back and they don't reinstate him as the WBC heavyweight champion.

01:55:39.000 No, they don't reinstate him.

01:55:40.000 He fights for the title.

01:55:41.000 He's a challenger. 0.99

01:55:42.000 Who gives a shit? 0.99

01:55:43.000 That title, who knows who's going to have that at that point? 0.99

01:55:46.000 Who cares?

01:55:47.000 He's only got to come back to fight undisputed.

01:55:51.000 Like, you can't come back and fight for every belt but the WBC or just fight for the WBC again.

01:55:57.000 Listen, if Usyk and Joshua...

01:55:59.000 Okay, let's say Usyk and Joshua fight, and this time Joshua wins.

01:56:03.000 Okay, so Joshua beats Usyk.

01:56:05.000 He beats him in the rematch and decides he's going to retire. 1.00

01:56:10.000 Fuck it, I'm good. 1.00

01:56:10.000 I'm done. 1.00

01:56:11.000 And then Tyson Fury comes back and Joshua says, actually...

01:56:15.000 I'm not retired anymore.

01:56:16.000 Let's go!

01:56:17.000 Neither one of them has a belt. 0.99

01:56:18.000 Who gives a fuck? 1.00

01:56:19.000 Who gives a fuck? 1.00

01:56:21.000 I'll come up with the JRE World Championship and I'll fucking fund that. 0.99

01:56:25.000 I'll fund that. 0.93

01:56:26.000 It's a world title.

01:56:27.000 We only have one fight, heavyweight division, world title.

01:56:29.000 It's for the JRE belt.

01:56:31.000 You would think.

01:56:32.000 You would think.

01:56:33.000 But I think...

01:56:34.000 The legacy of it, the history of it would matter.

01:56:38.000 Tyson Fury retired undefeated.

01:56:40.000 Anthony Joshua revenged his two losses that he had.

01:56:44.000 Revenged both of them. 0.99

01:56:45.000 He's the fucking world champ that retired. 0.99

01:56:48.000 Tyson Fury's the other world champ. 0.99

01:56:50.000 Call it undisputed.

01:56:51.000 That's the name of the promotion.

01:56:52.000 That's a prize fight.

01:56:53.000 Undisputed.

01:56:53.000 They call it undisputed with no belts.

01:56:55.000 Just undisputed.

01:56:56.000 That's a prize fight.

01:56:58.000 And I think that might be what Jake Paul...

01:57:05.000 Is actually doing.

01:57:06.000 He should.

01:57:07.000 Prize fighting.

01:57:07.000 Yes.

01:57:08.000 Right, right, right, right.

01:57:09.000 Yeah, I made a video.

01:57:11.000 I made kind of like one of my very, very few editorials that I put on YouTube about what this Jake Paul experience is and means to boxing.

01:57:21.000 And I categorized it as a prize fight, which isn't a diminishing term to what this guy is doing.

01:57:27.000 It's phenomenal.

01:57:29.000 But to try to put...

01:57:31.000 Him in the context of a traditional Yeah.

01:58:21.000 Of course.

01:58:24.000 The difference is everybody wants to see Jake Paul fight, whoever Jake Paul picks to fight, and he is an expert at picking guys that people want to see and turning that thing into a spectacle.

01:58:35.000 Well, prize fighting was a part of boxing history.

01:58:39.000 Prize fighting is something unto itself, and to hold that...

01:58:44.000 That stage is something that I think should be regarded.

01:58:49.000 That's like its own category.

01:58:51.000 You're never going to convince boxing purists that Jake Paul is a boxer of any tradition, except prize fighting. 0.53

01:59:00.000 If you can find a guy who can pack a fucking stadium, who can sell pay-per-views, who you want to see either win or lose, and facing a guy who's got a chance...

01:59:11.000 Well, that guy has created an audience for boxing that is not traditional but is to be respected and is clearly worth a few hours on a Saturday night. 0.98

01:59:22.000 Or a Sunday.

01:59:23.000 Or a Sunday if you're smart.

01:59:27.000 I think this prize fighting thing, which is what I also think of when we see Tyson and Jones come back for the one night, that's a prize fight.

01:59:36.000 Like you say, there's no belts on the line, doesn't even make a lot of sense, we just want to see these guys fight.

01:59:40.000 Do you think Jake Paul has the stones to really follow up on a Mike Tyson fight?

01:59:44.000 Because he talked about fighting Mike Tyson.

01:59:46.000 I think it would be a terrible idea.

01:59:48.000 A terrible idea.

01:59:49.000 You would realize when you see him warming up across the ring, that's still Mike Tyson.

01:59:55.000 Yeah.

01:59:56.000 Even though he's 55, that's still Mike Tyson.

01:59:58.000 When the bell rings and you see him shuffling for you, bobbling, weaving, you're like, oh no.

02:00:03.000 Yeah.

02:00:04.000 Oh no.

02:00:04.000 There might be a moment of reality there.

02:00:07.000 I bet he can be 30-year-old Mike Tyson for about 45 seconds.

02:00:11.000 That's all he needs.

02:00:13.000 The problem with that fight is that, first of all, if he does beat Mike Tyson, we're going to hate him forever.

02:00:21.000 If he KO'd Mike Tyson?

02:00:24.000 The guy would be shunned from society for giving us that.

02:00:31.000 People need to know how bad people hated Larry Holmes after he beat Muhammad Ali.

02:00:35.000 Exactly.

02:00:35.000 People hated him.

02:00:37.000 Yeah.

02:00:37.000 And Larry Holmes is one of the most underrated heavyweight champions that's ever lived.

02:00:41.000 Ever.

02:00:41.000 Because people didn't love him because he came after the most beloved heavyweight ever.

02:00:46.000 That is exactly right.

02:00:48.000 And to take a guy like Mike Tyson out of retirement who we all love, and the only reason we want to see him in the ring again is because we want to see some glimpse of the old Tyson.

02:00:57.000 Right.

02:00:57.000 And if you make him look like an old man or you hurt him in front of us...

02:01:02.000 No amount of reason or logic is going to keep people from hating you forever.

02:01:09.000 Forever.

02:01:09.000 And then if he goes in there and Tyson, like, destroys him, well then you've just ruined your whole, like, premise for being a cash cow.

02:01:17.000 Why would you do that?

02:01:19.000 It's true.

02:01:19.000 Yeah, both things are lose-lose.

02:01:21.000 It's a lose-lose.

02:01:22.000 Total lose-lose.

02:01:23.000 And, to be fair, I don't even want to see it.

02:01:24.000 Like, if that fight was, I was like, ah, I don't know.

02:01:27.000 You'd be right next to me, buddy.

02:01:29.000 We'd be holding hands.

02:01:29.000 I would feel like I had to watch it, but I wouldn't be like, oh, I can't wait to see this.

02:01:33.000 The moment that bell rings, you would be fucking excited as shit. 1.00

02:01:39.000 Are you crazy? 1.00

02:01:40.000 I would only be curious about impending doom. 0.78

02:01:44.000 Because we talked about this, if that happens, you and I are going. 0.99

02:01:48.000 We're fucking going. 0.99

02:01:49.000 If that takes place... 0.99

02:01:51.000 Because I think if he backs up the Brinks truck and brings it to Mike's house, I think Mike will sign on board for that. 1.00

02:01:57.000 You remember how it felt watching Holyfield?

02:01:59.000 Yeah, but that was different.

02:02:01.000 That was different.

02:02:02.000 First of all, I watched Holyfield train, too.

02:02:04.000 I didn't like the way it looked.

02:02:05.000 It didn't look like he was kind of like shuffling through things. 0.99

02:02:10.000 When I was watching Mike Tyson hit mitts with Rafael Cordero, I was like, holy fuck. 1.00

02:02:15.000 That was holy fuck. 1.00

02:02:19.000 Popping and weaving, moving forward, ripping to the body. 1.00

02:02:22.000 I'm not saying he's Mike Tyson when he was 20 years old.

02:02:25.000 Yeah.

02:02:25.000 But it's still Mike Tyson at 55. Mike Tyson at 55 is like, how deep was your well originally?

02:02:33.000 You know?

02:02:34.000 We've lost a few hundred thousand gallons. 0.99

02:02:36.000 Okay, but how deep's your fucking well? 1.00

02:02:38.000 Some people have a deep ass well. 1.00

02:02:40.000 That motherfucker has the deepest well that's ever been. 1.00

02:02:42.000 That's a great question. 1.00

02:02:43.000 If you can do that now, what could you do then?

02:02:47.000 He can pull out.

02:02:47.000 Also, with today's...

02:02:50.000 Science!

02:02:51.000 Like, a 55-year-old man is not really a 55-year-old man. 0.50

02:02:54.000 He's doing all kinds of crazy shit with electrodes, you know, where they put these, like, electrical muscular stimulation devices on you, and they have you lift weights, and it leads to, like, great gains in strength and recovery of range of motion, and he's got, like, legit scientists with him.

02:03:10.000 Yeah, it does make you wonder, like, the athletes of old, if they lived in today's modern technology, what they'd be able to do. 0.89

02:03:17.000 But I wasn't comparing Holyfield to Tyson's modern conditioning or even opportunity to win, but just the feeling of watching Holyfield get beat down.

02:03:28.000 It stays with me.

02:03:29.000 Like, it's sad, and it's infuriating, and I wish I never had to see that.

02:03:35.000 And what we love about Mike Tyson and what gets you excited right now watching him train, I don't want that diminished.

02:03:40.000 I want this guy to ride off into the sunset of life with us all being like, he's still got it.

02:03:46.000 Right, right, right.

02:03:47.000 Yeah, so who would he fight then?

02:03:49.000 He was supposed to fight Holyfield.

02:03:50.000 Nobody! 1.00

02:03:51.000 Like, stop fucking fighting! 1.00

02:03:53.000 What if he wants to have fun? 1.00

02:03:55.000 What if he wants to have fun?

02:03:56.000 I mean, I feel like he's gotten away with it thus far in grand fashion.

02:04:00.000 Like, man, I was against, I'll be honest with you, I was against the Jones fight.

02:04:04.000 I was like, one of these guys is going to get hurt or something is going to happen that we will never forgive ourselves for just because we all want it one more night.

02:04:11.000 Do you think they made an agreement?

02:04:13.000 That it wasn't going to get, like, I think they may have said as much, like it wasn't a knockout kind of fight.

02:04:21.000 It seemed like that was not on the table.

02:04:24.000 Yeah, which is good, thank God, because they didn't promote it that way for obvious reasons, but if that was agreed to, which I think you're correct about, then thank God.

02:04:33.000 Yeah.

02:04:33.000 Well, it's not the right size anyway.

02:04:36.000 Roy is just not the same size.

02:04:38.000 As great as Roy was when he beat John Ruiz, he was one of the lightest heavyweight champions ever.

02:04:42.000 He was a 200-pound guy, and he was barely 200 pounds.

02:04:47.000 And he's always known for being a super middleweight and a light heavyweight.

02:04:52.000 That's Roy Jones. 1.00

02:04:53.000 Mike Tyson's a fucking heavyweight! 0.99

02:04:55.000 A real heavyweight. 1.00

02:04:57.000 He was 190 when he was 13. I mean, that is what makes the idea that a Canelo would fight an Usyk as crazy.

02:05:12.000 And that Roy Jones has won the heavyweight championship of the world before.

02:05:17.000 Crazy.

02:05:18.000 I wish Roy, when he had come back from beating Ruiz, had really taken his time to get down to 175 again.

02:05:26.000 Or maybe never did it again because it is not easy to lose muscle.

02:05:30.000 It's not easy.

02:05:32.000 And when he went up, if you see, pull up a video of Roy Jones Jr. vs.

02:05:37.000 John Ruiz Jr. Because John Ruiz, the quiet man.

02:05:42.000 Mm-hmm.

02:05:43.000 He was a legit heavyweight champion.

02:05:46.000 He was a big guy.

02:05:47.000 And Roy was quite a bit smaller than him and not an ounce of fat at 200 pounds.

02:05:53.000 Now, if he had to go back down and fight at 175, what is he losing, man?

02:05:58.000 I mean, he's losing muscle.

02:06:00.000 There's just no way he's not going to lose muscle. 0.93

02:06:02.000 I think he weighed in, if I remember correctly, like 201 or some shit like that. 0.95

02:06:07.000 He was real light. 0.62

02:06:09.000 But you see Roy's considerably muscled up.

02:06:13.000 He looks great.

02:06:15.000 Let's not forget, he's also not 23. For the guy to have had the career he'd already had and now be challenging for a heavyweight title and winning it is crazy.

02:06:28.000 And against a guy, look at John Ruiz, hit him with some big shots.

02:06:32.000 Yeah, John Ruiz is no pushover.

02:06:33.000 Yeah, they were going after it.

02:06:35.000 John Ruiz was a legit heavyweight fighter.

02:06:37.000 I mean a legit world champion.

02:06:40.000 So to go from this fight, which also, here's another thing.

02:06:45.000 You know like every fight you're in, like you see Ruiz clipping him with a big right hand there.

02:06:49.000 Every fight you're in takes something off.

02:06:51.000 Every fight.

02:06:52.000 Every war takes something off.

02:06:54.000 When you move up multiple weight classes above your natural weight class and then fight for a heavyweight title, that fight's gonna take a lot off.

02:07:03.000 The shots you get hit with by a heavyweight, they take a lot off.

02:07:08.000 And then you drop down to weight to 175. You gotta dehydrate the shit out of yourself. 0.99

02:07:13.000 I remember when I watched him fight Antonio Tarver, I was looking at his body and I was like, man, he looks smooth. 0.69

02:07:20.000 He doesn't look like he used to look.

02:07:22.000 He used to look shredded at 175. And I think that...

02:07:26.000 Sometimes the struggle of getting down in weight, the juice is not worth the squeeze.

02:07:32.000 Guys' bodies just get so weakened by it.

02:07:35.000 You can't maintain striated muscle mass.

02:07:38.000 It didn't look good.

02:07:40.000 He didn't look like he was a coiled spring ready to go like when he fought James Toney. 0.99

02:07:45.000 Back in those days when he was fluid and loose and fucking punches were lightning bolts, man. 0.94

02:07:51.000 It seemed like that weight loss, that's not an insignificant factor. 0.99

02:07:55.000 Look at what you're demanding of your body.

02:07:59.000 Let's say you're not paying attention to hitting a weight mark at all.

02:08:02.000 Just training in that way with that intensity, the demands you put on your body, your joints, your muscles, even your digestion, everything that it goes into just being in that kind of conditioning.

02:08:14.000 And then on top of that, you want to be 200 pounds today and 175 tomorrow and then back to 68 until you go back to 75. Terrible.

02:08:25.000 It's stress.

02:08:25.000 Terrible.

02:08:26.000 Your body's incredibly stressed.

02:08:27.000 And then you have to perform at the highest level.

02:08:31.000 Yeah.

02:08:32.000 Again, imagine doing that, and then also, on the weekends I fight MMA. Like, what the fuck? 0.99

02:08:37.000 This is not happening. 0.99

02:08:39.000 I really would like to see one person jump over and try it.

02:08:44.000 If anybody could do it, I think it would be Crawford.

02:08:47.000 Because Crawford has a background in wrestling.

02:08:50.000 And Crawford's sons wrestle.

02:08:52.000 And I don't even know if he would need to kick.

02:08:54.000 He would just need to know how to stop kicks.

02:08:57.000 How to check kicks and how to move close enough to close the distance.

02:09:01.000 He knows how to wrestle.

02:09:03.000 Terence Crawford is an elite athlete and he's the best switch hitter alive in boxing right now.

02:09:07.000 His ability to switch stances, that's a big deal too.

02:09:10.000 Because there's a lot of guys who, say if you're a right-handed person, in boxing you would stand with your left hand forward, while in wrestling you'd stand with your right hand forward.

02:09:19.000 So a lot of wrestlers, when they're fighting a striker, a dangerous striker, you'll see him take a southpaw stance. 0.99

02:09:26.000 Because then all they're thinking is, I gotta get a hold of that fucking leg. 0.98

02:09:29.000 So the left leg, his left leg is in front of you, right? 1.00

02:09:33.000 If he's a boxer.

02:09:34.000 I want my right leg in front of me.

02:09:36.000 I don't want to have my left leg there.

02:09:38.000 That's an extra couple of inches and I'm not used to grabbing that way and I'm not used to pushing off of my left leg.

02:09:44.000 Wrestlers when they're right handed are used to primarily pushing off their right leg.

02:09:48.000 So they want that right leg out front. 0.98

02:09:50.000 Terence Crawford could switch hit.

02:09:52.000 He's the best at it.

02:09:53.000 I understand where you're coming from ability-wise.

02:09:56.000 What I love about Terence Crawford, one of the many things...

02:09:58.000 What is he doing?

02:09:59.000 He's wrestling somebody?

02:10:00.000 There's a bunch of videos of him wrestling.

02:10:03.000 Who's he wrestling?

02:10:03.000 I don't know.

02:10:04.000 That dude's got a flannel shirt on.

02:10:05.000 Really unlucky guy.

02:10:06.000 That's in a radio show or something.

02:10:08.000 Is that a video show?

02:10:09.000 There's a lot of videos of it. 0.99

02:10:10.000 Oh, Terrence can fucking wrestle. 0.99

02:10:11.000 See, this is my point. 0.99

02:10:12.000 Like, look at him here.

02:10:13.000 Like, he wrestles like a real wrestler. 0.98

02:10:15.000 And he's the best switch hitter in boxing, so he doesn't give a fuck if he has his right leg forward or his left leg forward. 0.99

02:10:21.000 He'll fuck you up either way. 0.99

02:10:22.000 He's the only guy in boxing that can do that. 0.99

02:10:25.000 Like, fights just as good southpaw as he does orthodox.

02:10:28.000 And he's the only guy in boxing that I know of that fights at a world championship, top of the food chain, pound for pound, best level, that also has this kind of wrestling skills.

02:10:38.000 Yeah, and more than all of those things that are incredibly important, he's got this competitive killer instinct.

02:10:48.000 Killer instinct with everything.

02:10:49.000 If you put somebody else across from him, I don't care if there's a cage around you or ropes or a...

02:10:56.000 Playground!

02:10:56.000 Whatever you want.

02:10:57.000 He'll do whatever the fuck. 0.99

02:10:58.000 He's going to do whatever he has to do to win. 0.99

02:11:00.000 And by the way, he'll do that with Frisbee. 1.00

02:11:02.000 What do you want to play, bitch? 1.00

02:11:04.000 You know? 1.00

02:11:04.000 He's a killer. 1.00

02:11:05.000 He's just trying to win. 0.99

02:11:06.000 He was challenging me to a game of pool.

02:11:08.000 I was like, what are you saying?

02:11:09.000 Are we gambling?

02:11:09.000 And then he smoked a joint and was like, nobody beats me high.

02:11:12.000 He realized as we started talking that it was a bad idea.

02:11:15.000 I was like, no.

02:11:17.000 I forgot.

02:11:17.000 He's a pool player, though.

02:11:18.000 He likes to...

02:11:20.000 Lennox Lewis thought he was, too.

02:11:21.000 Oh.

02:11:22.000 I lit him up.

02:11:23.000 Sorry, Lennox.

02:11:24.000 I didn't know this about you.

02:11:29.000 For regular people, I play real good. 1.00

02:11:32.000 You know, for a pro, I play like shit. 0.99

02:11:34.000 I'm like a B-level. 1.00

02:11:35.000 A B-player.

02:11:37.000 But a B-player is so much better.

02:11:40.000 A B-pro is pretty good. 0.58

02:11:40.000 Yeah. 0.58

02:11:41.000 When I'm playing at my best, I play like a B-player.

02:11:43.000 You ever play pickleball?

02:11:44.000 I have not played pickleball, but I hear it a lot lately.

02:11:47.000 I think it's because I'm getting old.

02:11:49.000 Old people start talking to you about, let's play pickleball. 1.00

02:11:52.000 I'm going to go shoot things.

02:11:55.000 Not a lot of movement. 1.00

02:11:56.000 The fuck is pickleball? 0.99

02:11:57.000 I refuse to act like an old person. 1.00

02:11:59.000 I do young people things.

02:12:01.000 Let's not frame it that way.

02:12:03.000 There's not a lot of 25-year-old dudes on a Saturday night looking to play pickleball.

02:12:07.000 They're too busy watching the fights.

02:12:09.000 If the fights are on Sunday, we'd be playing pickleball on Saturday night.

02:12:13.000 I just didn't even know what pickleball was until a year and a half ago.

02:12:17.000 Yeah, I played it at a friend's house.

02:12:20.000 He's a friend in a retirement community?

02:12:22.000 No.

02:12:25.000 He has a court at his house. 0.75

02:12:27.000 Oh, what kind of crazy person has a pickleball court at the house? 0.75

02:12:30.000 Did he put it in there?

02:12:32.000 Yeah.

02:12:32.000 Yeah, he installed it, and all his friends go and play, and I was fortunate enough to get invited over, and I've been obsessed ever since.

02:12:42.000 It's like, you know, I like tennis too.

02:12:44.000 You know what, Joe, if I weren't covering boxing, The only other sport that I really love is tennis.

02:12:52.000 I don't play it at all because it's too fucking hard to be like, because I'm so young, running back and forth. 0.62

02:12:58.000 Rough on the knees. 0.81

02:13:00.000 But yeah, the pickleball was a welcomed A sport that was close enough to tennis that I could play it and have as much fun. 1.00

02:13:13.000 Don't get into the old man shit. 0.99

02:13:15.000 Just accept that there's something new that can be brought to your life that can be fun and athletic. 1.00

02:13:21.000 I'm just talking shit, my friend. 0.99

02:13:22.000 That's what I do. 1.00

02:13:23.000 I talk shit. 1.00

02:13:24.000 If you bring up something like pickleball, I gotta talk about retirement communities. 1.00

02:13:29.000 Listen, I bowl.

02:13:30.000 I bowl with my kids.

02:13:31.000 I like to go bowling. 1.00

02:13:32.000 That's a stupid old person sport, too. 1.00

02:13:35.000 Oh, man. 1.00

02:13:36.000 Right?

02:13:36.000 Old people love bowling.

02:13:37.000 My grandfather loved bowling.

02:13:38.000 He was a bowling champion.

02:13:39.000 He had bowling trophies in his house.

02:13:41.000 He was all happy when he bowled.

02:13:42.000 They would have a bowling league, and they had League Nike.

02:13:45.000 Guys back in those days, man, Like, old dudes, they would love that there was an excuse they could all get together one night a week and take away some of the drudgery of working every day.

02:13:55.000 You know, so one night.

02:13:56.000 Wednesday night, it's league night.

02:13:58.000 I'm going out with the boys. 0.99

02:13:59.000 And you get your fucking bowling ball, and you get in your car, and you drive, and you have, like, an obligation to the boys. 0.99

02:14:05.000 Gotta go to the league. 1.00

02:14:06.000 And you're rolling some stupid ball down this wooden fucking platform until it hits some pins. 1.00

02:14:12.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:14:13.000 I only know that culture from watching these old TV shows, like Jackie Cleason, you know, with his bowling shirt.

02:14:21.000 I loved it, man.

02:14:22.000 That culture back in my grandpa's days, that was what they did.

02:14:27.000 They all bowled.

02:14:28.000 Everybody bowled.

02:14:30.000 Now, yeah, but archery is your sport now.

02:14:33.000 Well, archery is a discipline.

02:14:36.000 Archery is something that I love to do because when you're pulling back a bow and you're aiming, you don't think about anything other than perfect execution of the arrow.

02:14:46.000 That's all you think about.

02:14:48.000 And there's meditation in that.

02:14:50.000 I think it's like a martial art.

02:14:51.000 I really do.

02:14:52.000 I think archery is a martial art.

02:14:54.000 I don't think it's a martial art in terms of like you'd use it in a fight, but obviously it started out as something that people used in war, and to get good at it and accurate meant that you could kill more things.

02:15:05.000 I wonder what it actually started out.

02:15:07.000 I wonder if it started out as a weapon of war or it started out as a weapon of hunting.

02:15:11.000 I wonder what they used first.

02:15:13.000 Hunting.

02:15:13.000 Had to be, right?

02:15:14.000 I would imagine so. 0.98

02:15:15.000 I would imagine the imperative would be to get food before it would be to fuck somebody up, unless that person had some food. 0.99

02:15:22.000 Right. 0.99

02:15:23.000 Right.

02:15:26.000 Think about how easy it is to get food today.

02:15:29.000 The way we get food.

02:15:31.000 For now.

02:15:32.000 They keep talking about fucking food shortages. 1.00

02:15:34.000 Inflation, food shortages. 1.00

02:15:36.000 Isn't there food?

02:15:37.000 Isn't there plenty of food?

02:15:38.000 Why are you guys talking about food shortages?

02:15:39.000 Is there, though?

02:15:40.000 How about prepare so that there isn't food shortages?

02:15:43.000 I mean, I'm a city boy.

02:15:45.000 If the supermarket's closed, I'm in a lot of trouble.

02:15:49.000 There's no farming.

02:15:50.000 I don't have tomatoes in my backyard.

02:15:53.000 If Postmates is not delivering, I'm going to starve to death.

02:15:56.000 You just got to get to Dave's house, go to Yellow Springs. 1.00

02:15:59.000 A place like that, like Ohio, is a great place to be if the shit goes sideways. 0.98

02:16:04.000 Because there's plenty of farms, there's plenty of- Yeah, but there's also the kind of people who live on farms. 1.00

02:16:11.000 What the fuck? 1.00

02:16:12.000 I don't want to be in Ohio if this shit goes upside down! 1.00

02:16:14.000 Where do you want to be? 0.99

02:16:16.000 You don't want to be in New York.

02:16:18.000 No.

02:16:18.000 You don't want to be in LA. You know what, man?

02:16:21.000 You might want to be in Ohio.

02:16:25.000 You've got to ride it out like COVID and take a couple of years.

02:16:28.000 I'm going to be at the Joe Rogan experience.

02:16:31.000 Wherever you are, that's where I'm going to be.

02:16:34.000 You're the only guy I know that has a bow and arrow and is a good shot, has some idea what we should eat if it were raw, for Christ's sake.

02:16:43.000 You can eat most things.

02:16:44.000 Most meat.

02:16:45.000 Most of my friends don't have that mentality about meat.

02:16:49.000 You can just eat most things.

02:16:50.000 I can definitely help you get meat.

02:16:52.000 But I would use rifles.

02:16:54.000 If I do bow hunting because it's harder and because it's a discipline and because I love archery, but if we're just trying to survive, we're bringing bullets.

02:17:04.000 I'm not taking any chances on missing an animal.

02:17:08.000 Look, if you are close enough to an animal and you have good discipline and you practice with a rifle, it's pretty much a gimme.

02:17:17.000 With a bow and arrow, it's never a gimme.

02:17:19.000 With a bow and arrow, you have to wait for the perfect shot.

02:17:21.000 They have to turn a perfect way.

02:17:23.000 You want to catch them broadside because you don't want the arrow to hit bone. 1.00

02:17:28.000 When it's a bullet, you don't give a fuck. 1.00

02:17:30.000 You're blowing right through the front shoulders. 1.00

02:17:32.000 You're killing that animal with one shot. 0.97

02:17:34.000 I've never even considered whether or not my arrow might hit bone. 0.98

02:17:37.000 This is why.

02:17:40.000 I've got to be wherever you are.

02:17:42.000 I don't think Dave's ever thought about whether or not that arrow is going to strike bone.

02:17:48.000 You have to.

02:17:49.000 You have to use the right arrows, too.

02:17:51.000 You probably got enough elk meat in your freezer to last this right through the apocalypse.

02:17:55.000 You probably wouldn't even have to go out.

02:17:57.000 I got about a year's worth of meat right now.

02:18:01.000 I like to keep a lot of meat.

02:18:02.000 I have two commercial freezers that I keep here.

02:18:06.000 Yeah, these big-ass freezers filled with wild game meat.

02:18:10.000 And then I have freezers at home, too.

02:18:12.000 Yeah, if you don't have meat, you don't know how you're going to eat.

02:18:16.000 If you don't have rice, if you don't have food in your house, I don't have to go anywhere to eat.

02:18:20.000 I could stay home for weeks and not have to go anywhere to eat.

02:18:23.000 That's important to me.

02:18:25.000 Because I don't trust... 0.96

02:18:26.000 After, like, this COVID thing and the power went out here for a week last year and everything got kind of sketchy, the roads were all shut down because they don't have any fucking plows here.

02:18:36.000 Like, I don't trust things to be always okay. 0.83

02:18:40.000 I like when they're always okay. 0.96

02:18:41.000 I'm not, like, hoping that I get to use my prepper skills and fucking the apocalypse. 0.89

02:18:46.000 But I keep an eye on where the deer are in my neighborhood. 0.98

02:18:50.000 I watch them.

02:18:51.000 I say hi to them.

02:18:51.000 My kids say, oh, so cute, so cute.

02:18:54.000 And I say, yeah, they're beautiful.

02:18:55.000 They're beautiful.

02:18:56.000 But I think about putting one right behind that front shoulder.

02:19:00.000 Every time I drive by, I look at their front shoulder.

02:19:02.000 I go, right there, buddy.

02:19:04.000 Right there, buddy.

02:19:05.000 Because I'm going to eat you.

02:19:06.000 You've been at this a lot longer than COVID existed in our minds.

02:19:11.000 Yeah, but it's just society.

02:19:13.000 Society is run by people and people are wholly untrustworthy.

02:19:17.000 Not always.

02:19:18.000 Most of the time they're trustworthy.

02:19:20.000 Most of the time people do their job and they keep it together.

02:19:23.000 But people fall apart all the time.

02:19:25.000 People kill themselves.

02:19:26.000 People have drug overdoses.

02:19:28.000 People steal. 1.00

02:19:29.000 People fucking ruin other people's businesses for no reason because they're assholes. 1.00

02:19:33.000 People are nuts to trust people and to say, well, the people that are in charge of agriculture, they would never do us wrong. 1.00

02:19:40.000 They would never fuck this up. 0.99

02:19:43.000 Everybody could fuck up everything.

02:19:45.000 You gotta have a certain amount of autonomy. 0.99

02:19:47.000 So if things do get fucked, you can at the very least survive. 0.98

02:19:52.000 I can survive. 0.99

02:19:54.000 I know how to survive.

02:19:55.000 How long have you been this way?

02:19:57.000 I grew up without a dad.

02:19:59.000 So I've been this way forever.

02:20:01.000 I haven't talked to my father since I was seven years old.

02:20:04.000 So I didn't grow up with anybody taking care of me. 0.98

02:20:07.000 I grew up with people telling me I was a loser or I was never going to amount to anything or whatever the fuck they said that was discouraging. 0.97

02:20:16.000 And I was like, oh, okay. 0.99

02:20:18.000 Okay.

02:20:19.000 That was always my idea. 1.00

02:20:20.000 My attitude was always, I don't trust any of these fucking people. 0.99

02:20:23.000 I've watched people that were supposed to be people in positions of power be shitty. 1.00

02:20:27.000 I watched people be mean to their spouse and mean to their parents. 0.86

02:20:31.000 I watched a lot of that growing up.

02:20:34.000 So I never trusted people.

02:20:36.000 I felt like you could find some people and trust them.

02:20:39.000 And you need to find people of exemplary character.

02:20:42.000 And where do you find those people? 0.99

02:20:44.000 They have to be doing difficult shit. 0.99

02:20:45.000 So I gravitated towards martial arts. 0.98

02:20:49.000 Because the people that were all really good at it, they had the ability to overcome incredible obstacles.

02:20:55.000 To get good at something that's very difficult.

02:20:57.000 Those are people of considerable character.

02:21:00.000 Those are the people that I was interested in.

02:21:02.000 I was interested in people that figured out how to make it in a thing that's very hard to make it in.

02:21:08.000 And that's why to this day I'm still obsessed with fighting.

02:21:10.000 You want to become an Alexander Usik.

02:21:13.000 You want to become a Terence Crawford.

02:21:15.000 You want to become an Earl Spence. 1.00

02:21:17.000 You're a fucking unusual human, man. 0.99

02:21:20.000 That's a human of exemplary ability. 1.00

02:21:24.000 Very unusual.

02:21:25.000 Outlier status in terms of their discipline, their mind, their ability to push, their ability to find a way to victory.

02:21:33.000 That's what's exciting to me.

02:21:36.000 Most people fall apart.

02:21:38.000 Most people crumble.

02:21:39.000 Most people panic. 1.00

02:21:40.000 Most people, when the shit hits the fan and everything's on the line, they don't know what the fuck to do. 0.99

02:21:45.000 Because they don't know who they are. 1.00

02:21:46.000 Because they have all these ideas.

02:21:47.000 Because maybe they base who they are on what other people's opinions of them are. 0.99

02:21:50.000 And so when things go sideways, they're fucked. 1.00

02:21:53.000 When a girlfriend breaks up with them, they're fucked. 1.00

02:21:56.000 When they get in a dispute with a friend and the other friends take that friend's side, even if they're right, they're fucked. 1.00

02:22:02.000 Because they don't know who they are now. 0.99

02:22:03.000 Now my friends are mad at me?

02:22:05.000 My girl left me?

02:22:06.000 I lost my job? 1.00

02:22:08.000 You don't know who the fuck you are because you're all tied up in all these things. 1.00

02:22:11.000 You and I have that in common. 1.00

02:22:14.000 I didn't grow up with a father either.

02:22:15.000 My father, in fact, was murdered when I was two years old by his best friend.

02:22:23.000 And so, growing up with the reality of death looming is part of what makes something like It Happening the Other Night so real to me.

02:22:36.000 And it can overshadow so many other incredible things that are happening on that night.

02:22:44.000 That was the fourth night at the Hollywood Bowl.

02:22:47.000 Fave Chappelle sold out all of the nights.

02:22:51.000 That happened right before Blackstar came on stage to wrap some of their album, the first album back after 24 years.

02:23:04.000 All that was happening that night.

02:23:06.000 The people that were on the side stage, that's because they all showed up to see Dave, see Blackstar to be a part of that moment that Dave created there in that building and some It's hard for me to even characterize this individual,

02:23:23.000 was willing on that one moment to take it all away from us.

02:23:27.000 You know what a lot of this is?

02:23:29.000 I mean, with that guy in particular.

02:23:31.000 There's people that are left out in society.

02:23:34.000 And that's a guy that was left out in society.

02:23:37.000 That was a homeless guy.

02:23:38.000 I mean, a homeless guy who's non-binary calls himself they-them on his Twitter.

02:23:43.000 Like, to be a part of any group is so special.

02:23:47.000 And to be a part of a group that's united against someone who he probably never even watched as special. 0.99

02:23:52.000 He doesn't have a fucking TV. How's he going to watch it? 0.99

02:23:54.000 You probably just hear Dave Chappelle's transphobic, so he's going to attack him.

02:23:58.000 And to get the love of those people.

02:24:00.000 If you actually did it, you know how much love you would get?

02:24:03.000 If you want to attack this person, you know?

02:24:05.000 Yeah, for attention.

02:24:07.000 For some kind of validation.

02:24:08.000 Oh, my life means something now.

02:24:10.000 Exactly.

02:24:10.000 Because I ripped this life away from everyone else.

02:24:13.000 Look, you were very fortunate that when your father died, you made it through and became a great adult.

02:24:20.000 But many people have horrible things happen to them along the way, and then they find themselves homeless, they find themselves drug addicted, they find themselves falling apart.

02:24:29.000 We have...

02:24:31.000 A whole sea of possibility of potential bad results and good results in all of our communities.

02:24:39.000 But nothing like the homeless community.

02:24:41.000 The homeless community is almost 100% bad results.

02:24:46.000 Yeah.

02:24:47.000 And it all comes down to how you deal with that adversity.

02:24:52.000 The way you describe your father not being in the home and what that did to your young psychology.

02:24:58.000 Well, that set you on a trajectory.

02:24:59.000 That set you on a course.

02:25:00.000 Didn't mean it was going to be sustainable.

02:25:02.000 I'm sure you've had many moments in which you had to find your resolve.

02:25:06.000 Is this really...

02:25:07.000 Can I do another day of this?

02:25:09.000 Can I find my way in the world in spite of this and that and the accumulation of trauma and challenges?

02:25:15.000 That's also what my show is about.

02:25:18.000 That kind of thing.

02:25:19.000 The difference between Joe Rogan and a guy right out by the lake in a tent might be one choice.

02:25:26.000 One thing that he couldn't overcome that made the difference between millions and millions and millions of people listening to the Joe Rogan experience and this guy begging for food outside of a tent in a lake in Austin.

02:25:41.000 Yeah.

02:25:42.000 I think a lot of it is exposure to dangerous drugs.

02:25:45.000 Like some people, when they do need an escape early on, they have close proximity and they have exposure to something like fentanyl.

02:25:54.000 And they get something that they get hooked on.

02:25:56.000 Something like heroin, they get hooked on it.

02:25:59.000 Meth, hooked on it.

02:26:00.000 And then, you know, some people do break through from that and actually even wind up being athletes. 0.99

02:26:05.000 You know, there's been guys in the UFC that were elite fighters that fought that had fucking overdoses and had to be resuscitated. 0.99

02:26:13.000 They were dead. 0.99

02:26:14.000 They'd be brought back.

02:26:15.000 They're beating those demons.

02:26:17.000 They're winning whatever that fight is.

02:26:18.000 And I don't think that the fight is drugs when it's drugs.

02:26:23.000 Like, drugs is a...

02:26:30.000 When you talk about your dad and putting you on that focus, is that like a survival mentality or is that like I'm going to be something because he wasn't there and people don't think I can be anything?

02:26:45.000 There's probably both of those things happening simultaneously, but there's definitely a survival thing because you realize that no one's looking out for you.

02:26:52.000 You know when you realize that no one's looking out for you and then you look at the flimsy structure of society and How all would have to do is like power goes out for a week?

02:27:02.000 Then what are you gonna do all the refrigerators are bad all the foods bad?

02:27:05.000 Where how are people getting in how you getting in and out?

02:27:08.000 There's no transportation anymore because you're out of gasoline because you can't pump it you can't refine it because there's no power and All it would take is the power grid to get killed, and it wouldn't take much, a solar flare, an attack from a foreign government. 0.97

02:27:22.000 The foreign government wanted to take out the United States power grid with missiles.

02:27:27.000 They used drones, and they sent drones over with missiles and took out the power grid.

02:27:31.000 That's totally doable.

02:27:33.000 If the power goes out, man, how long do you think it is before we figure out how to turn it back on?

02:27:38.000 Could be a long time.

02:27:39.000 If it's up to me, it's never coming back on.

02:27:41.000 But even if it's up to the best minds, if the grid gets crushed by a solar flare, for instance, there's solar flares that...

02:27:49.000 We talked about this once, Jamie.

02:27:51.000 There was one that took out...

02:27:53.000 What are those things?

02:27:55.000 Morse code.

02:27:55.000 And then there was the other thing that they used, the old-timey, the Western.

02:27:58.000 They would send a telegraph.

02:28:00.000 Remember those?

02:28:01.000 It took those out.

02:28:03.000 It took those out in the 1800s.

02:28:05.000 There was a solar flare that was so powerful that it fucked up anything that was electric.

02:28:11.000 Electrical devices and...

02:28:13.000 We're lucky.

02:28:14.000 The same strength solar flare didn't happen today when everything is electronic and everything is using electricity. 0.94

02:28:22.000 It could have fucking torched our society.

02:28:25.000 A real legit solar flare, which is a fairly rare event in terms of the length of time that a human being lives, but very common in terms of the length of time the sun lives. 0.99

02:28:36.000 It's just whether or not you catch one while you're alive.

02:28:40.000 So while you're alive, a massive solar flare erupts and torches the entire power grid. 1.00

02:28:47.000 We're fucked. 0.99

02:28:49.000 I don't imagine that would have ever occurred to me had you not brought it up. 1.00

02:28:55.000 And I don't think you trust anything.

02:29:00.000 I do.

02:29:01.000 I trust a lot of people.

02:29:02.000 I trust my instincts.

02:29:04.000 I trust truth.

02:29:05.000 I trust a lot of things.

02:29:07.000 It's not that I don't trust things.

02:29:08.000 It's just that I see the whole picture.

02:29:11.000 I see all the vulnerabilities.

02:29:13.000 It's like I used to have a problem when I was young.

02:29:17.000 In particular when I was young, I couldn't just accept a person for what they were.

02:29:21.000 I would always find their vulnerabilities, always find their weakness, and it would annoy me. 0.99

02:29:25.000 I'd be like, this lazy bitch is three minutes late every day. 1.00

02:29:29.000 Like, get up three minutes earlier. 1.00

02:29:31.000 I would obsess at it.

02:29:32.000 I would find, like, the holes in them.

02:29:34.000 I bet he quits easy. 1.00

02:29:35.000 I bet if shit gets... 1.00

02:29:36.000 I would think of people that way. 0.99

02:29:38.000 I would think of people like, what would it take to get that person to cry?

02:29:42.000 What would it take to get them to quit?

02:29:44.000 What would it take to get them to fall apart?

02:29:45.000 Because I was a fighter.

02:29:46.000 I was finding vulnerabilities in people.

02:29:48.000 I was like a little predator.

02:29:50.000 So the problem was that I wouldn't just accept what a thing was.

02:29:55.000 I would say, okay, but what happens if this happens?

02:29:58.000 What happens if that happens?

02:29:59.000 Is there a fallback plan? 0.87

02:30:02.000 Does anybody know what the fuck to do if the power goes out? 0.78

02:30:04.000 Does anybody ever? 0.79

02:30:05.000 No, no one's ever just showing up at work every day and hoping the coffee machine works.

02:30:09.000 No one is paying attention.

02:30:11.000 Like, this could go sideways, and it has throughout history, multiple times. 0.95

02:30:15.000 Numerous times where civilization's been basically brought down to its fucking knees by natural disasters, and then society had to rebuild.

02:30:24.000 If you do that with people that you know and your friends and that you love, that's got to take a hell of a toll on your relationships. 0.63

02:30:32.000 If you're finding- Yeah, I stopped doing that when I was young.

02:30:34.000 It took me until I was in my 20s.

02:30:36.000 My early 20s, I realized I was doing that all the time.

02:30:39.000 I would pick on people for what they did that was lazy and weak.

02:30:44.000 It would drive me crazy because I hated it in myself.

02:30:47.000 Dude, I was so crazy when I was young that I was married to the idea that pleasure was weak. 1.00

02:30:58.000 I had to figure out a way when I was in my teens that I didn't feel like a pussy because I wanted to have sex with a girl instead of training. 1.00

02:31:11.000 I literally had to put it in my head that the idea that pleasure Wasn't bad. 0.99

02:31:18.000 I felt like pleasure was weak because it was like weak.

02:31:21.000 It was too easy to slide into anybody could have pleasure You can go out pleasure.

02:31:25.000 Oh great.

02:31:25.000 What's what's difficult to do?

02:31:27.000 It's difficult to train hard and it's difficult to fight It's difficult to go out there and win and that's what you should think about not getting your dick sucked and fucking and all that stupid shit No, you should only be thinking about fighting Is that because fighting is discipline and pleasure is giving in to a desire? 1.00

02:31:44.000 Oh, are you going to take a nap afterwards? 1.00

02:31:46.000 Is that shit? 1.00

02:31:47.000 So dumb. 1.00

02:31:49.000 I mean, so contrary to the way I think now, but I remember very clearly when I was young thinking that. 0.98

02:31:54.000 What changed it?

02:31:55.000 I just got smarter.

02:31:56.000 I just I realized what was wrong with the way I was thinking because I am always I'm always editing my not editing I'm using introspective thinking on my own life on my own like if I have an interaction with someone like if I have a disagreement with them I always want to like okay I don't want to believe that I was right when I was wrong like I need to know what the fuck did I say how did I say it and Could I have said that better?

02:32:23.000 Maybe they misinterpreted it.

02:32:25.000 I always want to know.

02:32:26.000 I had a conversation just yesterday with a good friend of mine, and we were talking, and he was telling me about this story.

02:32:32.000 I go, okay, do you know for sure that that's how he took it?

02:32:37.000 Maybe he took it this way.

02:32:39.000 Did you ask him this first?

02:32:41.000 I want to know, did you do this work Do you want to call me and tell me that you and this guy got in an argument because you want me to tell you you're right?

02:32:51.000 Or do you want my actual opinion?

02:32:53.000 And the only way I want to get my actual opinion is I need to know what your opinion is.

02:32:56.000 And the only way I can trust your opinion is if you've looked at your own self.

02:33:00.000 So if you tell me, I got in a fight with this guy, man, I sat down.

02:33:04.000 I thought about it. 0.99

02:33:05.000 I was like, okay, was I being a dick? 0.98

02:33:06.000 What did I do wrong? 0.98

02:33:07.000 And then I thought, well, no, because he knew this, and I know he knew this because he brought this up.

02:33:12.000 So maybe I didn't explain myself right, and so then I'll think about how I explain myself.

02:33:18.000 And I was like, well, maybe they misinterpreted what I was saying and thought I was joking around.

02:33:22.000 Then I'll try to think of that.

02:33:23.000 I'll do the work.

02:33:24.000 So if I ask someone a question, if they're having an argument with someone, okay, do you know of this? 1.00

02:33:28.000 And then they start raising their voice, and they'll, fuck him. 0.99

02:33:31.000 Okay, you haven't done the work. 0.99

02:33:33.000 So you're so attached to being correct here that you're ready to dig your heels in the sand and then fight for your side regardless of whether or not it's correct.

02:33:43.000 That's Twitter.

02:33:46.000 That's Twitter in a nutshell.

02:33:47.000 That's what people do.

02:33:48.000 That sense of certainty is something that does come with youth.

02:33:52.000 I had it.

02:33:53.000 I had anger issues.

02:33:57.000 I wasn't a provocateur or aggressive. 0.99

02:34:01.000 I wasn't a bully, but I had a very, very thin line between I'm totally cool with this and I'm ready to kill anybody that's involved in this. 0.97

02:34:11.000 There's no yellow light. 0.83

02:34:12.000 That's also not being protected when you're young.

02:34:15.000 That's a lot of that comes from.

02:34:18.000 And also exposure to violence while in the womb.

02:34:22.000 Right.

02:34:23.000 Yeah, that's what's really crazy. 0.99

02:34:25.000 Michael Irvin told me that once on a fucking flight to Australia. 0.98

02:34:28.000 He was on a flight to Australia, just randomly, same flight. 0.99

02:34:31.000 And he was going over there for a football thing, and I was going over there for the UFC thing. 0.89

02:34:36.000 And we were talking, just because of a fucking $16 flight, and we were just hanging out in the galley, chit-chatting. 0.64

02:34:41.000 And he was telling me about these guys that he works with that are experiencing... 0.99

02:34:47.000 These guys came from an environment where their mother was exposed to violence in the womb.

02:34:53.000 So they're getting hit or they're seeing violence and the cortisol level rises and it's literally preparing the fetus for a violent world.

02:35:01.000 So those guys come out of that world and they have a shorter fuse, Quicker to violence, and a lot of these guys wind up playing football.

02:35:09.000 And then what happens when you wind up playing football?

02:35:11.000 Well, then you're in a place that rewards violence.

02:35:14.000 It rewards explosive behavior, explosive speed, and you're getting hit all the time, and then you get hit all the time, and what happens then?

02:35:20.000 Well, you get even more impulsive.

02:35:22.000 Guys who have CTE, guys who get brain damage, they make poor decisions, they're more impulsive, more prone to violence. 1.00

02:35:29.000 And so you're dealing with this literally from the fucking womb. 0.99

02:35:33.000 But to come to that realization, to understand that, usually is attached to an experience. 0.99

02:35:39.000 It's not, you didn't just get smarter. 0.99

02:35:41.000 Things happen to you, you experience things where you had to pay a dividend for being dumb. 0.99

02:35:46.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:35:47.000 And what's that?

02:35:49.000 Like there had to have been a moment where you- It's not a moment, it's cumulative life experiences.

02:35:54.000 But it's also learning early on from martial arts that you have to pay attention to all of your weaknesses and you have to fix those.

02:36:03.000 You can't have like a weakness of technique.

02:36:06.000 You can't have like one thing you only do and you can't do other things because you'll get hit.

02:36:11.000 You can't have like bad defense.

02:36:13.000 Okay, that's fair.

02:36:14.000 You can have bad footwork.

02:36:15.000 But you described pleasure as a weakness.

02:36:18.000 Yeah.

02:36:19.000 And training as the discipline. 1.00

02:36:21.000 So train instead of fuck because this is something that I can do that makes me stronger and this is just giving into a weakness. 1.00

02:36:29.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:36:30.000 How did you recognize that? 0.99

02:36:31.000 I realized it was just dumb. 1.00

02:36:32.000 I realized it was dumb. 1.00

02:36:33.000 I was just like alone thinking about how stupid it is. 1.00

02:36:36.000 Or just horny? 1.00

02:36:38.000 Oh for sure I was horny.

02:36:39.000 But I think I also abandoned it because I stopped fighting when I was like 22. So it was young enough so that I had adopted a new life.

02:36:48.000 I started doing stand-up at 21 and somewhere along the line I realized I can't do both and then I quit.

02:36:54.000 I think I had my last fight.

02:36:55.000 I was either 21 or 22. I had three kickboxing fights.

02:36:58.000 So that was young enough that I could have abandoned my old life.

02:37:05.000 The old life of extreme discipline and this crazy focus on this one thing.

02:37:09.000 Because this other thing needed a different approach.

02:37:12.000 Comedy.

02:37:13.000 Yeah, comedy. 0.99

02:37:13.000 One of the things I used to think of when I bombed early on was like, fuck this, I'm going to go back to fighting. 0.99

02:37:19.000 Because in fighting, I didn't give a fuck if people liked me. 0.99

02:37:21.000 I would just take naps. 0.97

02:37:23.000 Before I would fight, I would go to tournaments.

02:37:25.000 I would look at everybody and be nervous and I would just lie down and go to sleep.

02:37:28.000 I liked it.

02:37:29.000 I liked the fact that they didn't have to like me.

02:37:32.000 I liked when people were cheering against another person.

02:37:34.000 I liked it.

02:37:35.000 I liked it.

02:37:36.000 I'm like, no one can help you.

02:37:38.000 When you're in here, as soon as this starts, no one's going to help you.

02:37:41.000 All these people that are here, there's no one here for me.

02:37:43.000 I'm here for me.

02:37:46.000 And that was this attitude that I didn't care because I knew that I was working hard enough.

02:37:52.000 I knew that I was putting in all the work.

02:37:53.000 I didn't need anybody else's opinion.

02:37:55.000 But in comedy, you needed everybody's opinion.

02:37:57.000 You needed everybody to like you.

02:37:59.000 You needed to be likeable. 0.99

02:38:01.000 Then you're like, God damn, I have some blind spots. 0.99

02:38:03.000 Then I realized I had some blind spots in my own personality. 0.99

02:38:06.000 Yeah.

02:38:07.000 Because my personality was geared towards success in a violent execution world.

02:38:15.000 That was all it was about. 0.98

02:38:16.000 I was kicking people in the face. 0.95

02:38:17.000 So that was what I was geared for success at. 0.57

02:38:20.000 We really are flip sides of this same coin.

02:38:22.000 The fighting was so personal for me.

02:38:24.000 I would never want to do it in front of people for the sake of that.

02:38:28.000 Or it wasn't even about destroying the other guy.

02:38:31.000 It was about working through that anger and working through all of that pent-up Aggression and getting it out and healthy, it felt like getting high.

02:38:41.000 But the liking me part and being an affable guy and being able to communicate well and speak, huge, huge objective.

02:38:51.000 I wouldn't even like to admit how much and how important it was, especially for me younger, to be liked but also to be thought of well.

02:39:01.000 I think that's for everybody though.

02:39:04.000 Don't you think everybody wants to be liked when they're young?

02:39:06.000 I think maybe the aspect of not having a father could be a blessing in the sense that I don't need this one guy to like me.

02:39:15.000 Maybe that one guy wants you to do a specific thing.

02:39:19.000 Or just can't accept who you actually are and you spend your whole life trying to be whatever that guy wants you to be.

02:39:24.000 Yes, yes. 0.97

02:39:25.000 And so, but at the same time, it gave me this desire to not be the stereotypical, because you're a white man, but a black guy without a father is a stereotype. 0.97

02:39:34.000 White man without a father, well, that's sad.

02:39:40.000 So, for me, it's like, well, only this much is available to you.

02:39:46.000 This guy's a single mom.

02:39:48.000 I didn't have any siblings.

02:39:50.000 We didn't come from any kind of real money, so he's only going to be able to do this.

02:39:54.000 He's only going to be able to go that far.

02:39:57.000 He's a likable guy, but there's no way he can achieve anything beyond something very average.

02:40:02.000 Right.

02:40:03.000 I didn't go to college, but that was because I was pursuing something that I believed I had special talent at.

02:40:09.000 But even then, even though I had success in high school, I had a radio show in high school, I was very well liked.

02:40:15.000 Not going to college, well, and that's it for that guy.

02:40:18.000 He's only going to be able to go this far.

02:40:19.000 Wait until that dream putters out.

02:40:21.000 That's why I went to college.

02:40:23.000 And that's why I didn't. 0.58

02:40:25.000 I went to college just so people wouldn't think I was a loser.

02:40:28.000 Yeah.

02:40:28.000 That's the only reason I went.

02:40:30.000 I mean, I'm so glad I didn't fall into that trap.

02:40:32.000 Well, I got out of it.

02:40:34.000 I mean, I did three years of college, but it was not full-time most of the time.

02:40:38.000 But my feeling about what we're saying is that it's... 0.94

02:40:44.000 All that adversity can fuck you over or it can really help you.

02:40:49.000 It really depends on how you address it and how you get through it. 0.94

02:40:52.000 Obviously it helped you.

02:40:53.000 It helped you form your opinion.

02:40:55.000 Most people that I know that have had bizarre lives are interesting.

02:40:58.000 It gave me resolve.

02:41:00.000 It gave me resolve that knowing the finality of life at such an early age, I'm not living it for anybody else.

02:41:07.000 With that said, I want people to like me.

02:41:09.000 Part of my career choice is going to require that I have an audience that wants to hear what I have to say or at least trusts me and likes me enough to come back tomorrow.

02:41:16.000 But I'm not going to trade my desired experience on this planet for somebody else's judgment.

02:41:24.000 Yes. 0.99

02:41:24.000 And the way I see you attacking life, well, you went to college just so that people wouldn't think you're a loser. 0.99

02:41:31.000 How important was it at some point that it wasn't that everybody else didn't think you were a loser, but that you realized that you weren't a loser? 0.87

02:41:40.000 When did you stop?

02:41:41.000 Well, I realized I wasn't a loser when I got really good at martial arts, but the problem was there was no money in it.

02:41:46.000 And so, the saying that I didn't want people to like me, or I didn't care if people liked me, well, I didn't care if people liked me in the realm of the most important thing in my life, which was competition, because it didn't matter.

02:41:58.000 Like, you didn't have to like me.

02:41:59.000 If I weigh, you know, 154 and you're in my weight class, you don't have to like me.

02:42:03.000 I don't care.

02:42:05.000 The most important thing is this chaotic moment that happens when we have to bow to each other and then we fight.

02:42:12.000 So that was all I was focused on, because that's what matters.

02:42:15.000 That's the crazy thing.

02:42:16.000 When that didn't matter anymore, because then I wasn't doing it anymore, then I had to address my whole way of approaching life It was so aggressive and it was so weird.

02:42:26.000 It was so like that I was only focused on this one extreme thing and then I realized like oh like I missed out on like most high school experiences that a lot of people had.

02:42:39.000 I was traveling around the country fighting in tournaments my whole high school all through like 15, 16, 17 until I was 21 years old.

02:42:47.000 I was fighting everywhere.

02:42:49.000 That's all I did.

02:42:49.000 So all the stuff of partying, I wasn't partying.

02:42:52.000 If you party, then you're hungover. 0.99

02:42:54.000 If you're hungover, you get kicked in the face.

02:42:56.000 You have to train. 0.99

02:42:58.000 You're going to train and get kicked when you're hungover? 1.00

02:43:00.000 Get the fuck out of here. 1.00

02:43:01.000 It's not worth it. 0.99

02:43:02.000 There's nothing worth it.

02:43:03.000 It's too scary.

02:43:04.000 So I didn't party.

02:43:05.000 I can count on one hand the number of times I got drunk or high when I was a teenager.

02:43:11.000 It was very few.

02:43:12.000 Very rare. 0.99

02:43:13.000 When you stepped outside of the ring or stepped off the mat, does all that other shit come rushing back? 0.97

02:43:18.000 No, because I felt like... 0.92

02:43:20.000 The thing that I learned from martial arts is that I can be...

02:43:24.000 There was a first time in my life where I didn't feel like a loser.

02:43:27.000 Like I felt like, oh, all I have to do is learn how to get really good at something.

02:43:32.000 Like put a lot of effort into it, a lot of thinking, and you can get really good at something.

02:43:37.000 And when you get really good at something, all of a sudden people admire you.

02:43:41.000 So instead of being a loser, When I was four-time Massachusetts state champion and I would enter into this weight class and I would see people get upset that they were going to have to fight me. 0.99

02:43:53.000 I'd be like, that's right, bitch. 1.00

02:43:54.000 Here it comes. 1.00

02:43:56.000 Because for me, it was exciting.

02:43:57.000 I was a somebody now.

02:43:58.000 I was something.

02:43:59.000 You know it's like when you don't have anything and then also you become a something like you realize like oh What did I do?

02:44:06.000 How did I get here?

02:44:07.000 I found a thing I found good instruction I found good training partners and I fucking fully completely dedicated my whole life to it because so although like my approach to it was so aggressive and probably not healthy in the realm of the rest of the world like I What I learned from that,

02:44:23.000 though, is that by completely focusing on one thing, you can get better at it.

02:44:28.000 And you're not a loser.

02:44:29.000 You're just someone who hasn't...

02:44:30.000 You haven't done anything yet.

02:44:32.000 That's all it is.

02:44:33.000 You haven't figured out how to be good at something yet.

02:44:36.000 With no guarantees in life, nobody to just pad your path, you found something you were good at.

02:44:41.000 You were really good at it.

02:44:42.000 It satisfied that need in you.

02:44:46.000 How do you then leave that for something like the comedy stage, where again, there's no guarantees.

02:44:51.000 You can't be very good at it at the beginning.

02:44:54.000 Yeah.

02:44:55.000 It was a lot of luck.

02:44:56.000 A lot of luck.

02:44:57.000 But why would you even do it?

02:44:59.000 Well, one of my good friends, this guy Steve Graham, talked me into doing that when I was like 15 years old.

02:45:04.000 He told me I was funny.

02:45:06.000 Uh-oh.

02:45:06.000 Because what it was like, I would make people laugh in the locker room because we'd all be real nervous.

02:45:11.000 We'd have to go out there and spar or we'd be in a bus on the way to a tournament.

02:45:15.000 Everybody would be nervous. 1.00

02:45:16.000 And I would be the one who talked a lot of shit. 0.99

02:45:18.000 Because when we're nervous, like for me, it was an opportunity for me to get attention. 1.00

02:45:21.000 Like everybody's nervous, so I'm gonna say some fucked up things so everybody laughs.

02:45:24.000 And I realized that it's a good icebreaker and people enjoy it because they want some sort of a relief from the weirdness of knowing that you're gonna go fight in a full contact tournament. 0.99

02:45:34.000 And so I would be the guy that would crack people up by doing impressions of people and talking shit. 0.99

02:45:39.000 And so my friend Steve was like, dude, you really should be a fucking comedian. 0.99

02:45:42.000 And I was like, you think I'm funny because you like me. 1.00

02:45:45.000 I go, other people think I'm a fucking asshole. 1.00

02:45:47.000 But I went to an open mic night, and then I realized on an open mic night, I was like, oh, everybody sucks. 1.00

02:45:54.000 They all start out sucking. 0.99

02:45:55.000 I thought, you're Richard Pryor, or you're not. 0.99

02:45:58.000 No, no, no.

02:45:59.000 It's like everything else.

02:46:00.000 And then I applied my martial arts mind to it.

02:46:02.000 I was like, oh, you just gotta be dedicated.

02:46:04.000 You gotta find out what that thing is.

02:46:06.000 But then I realized, no, there's so much emotional intelligence that I'm lacking.

02:46:09.000 Because all I've been thinking is kicking people in the face for most of my life.

02:46:13.000 So I had to rethink what I thought was funny, rethink how people thought of me, rethink why did people think of me this way.

02:46:22.000 Why was I nervous when I was around some people but relaxed around other people?

02:46:26.000 I had to try to work my way through it.

02:46:28.000 But what I was worried about was brain damage.

02:46:32.000 I was in a place in Boston where, especially when I was kickboxing, we would do some hard sparring.

02:46:40.000 Hard sparring.

02:46:41.000 They're basically fights.

02:46:43.000 We were fighting with 16-ounce gloves on.

02:46:45.000 And I remember watching guys deteriorate.

02:46:50.000 Guys had been doing it longer than me.

02:46:52.000 And then I'd seen them, you know, like maybe when I was 21, they were 30. And I'd see them start to slur their words.

02:46:57.000 And I'd see them, you know, like do fucked up things like drunk driving and, you know, getting in a fight with their girlfriend. 0.98

02:47:04.000 They get arrested. 0.97

02:47:04.000 And then they're back in the gym. 0.97

02:47:06.000 And I'm watching the deterioration.

02:47:08.000 And then there's still hard sparring.

02:47:10.000 And they take a lot of pride in the hard sparring.

02:47:13.000 And I would be laying in my bed, and one night I really remember in particular, I was laying in my bed with a headache.

02:47:20.000 My head was pounding.

02:47:21.000 Bang, bang, bang, just from being hit.

02:47:24.000 And I was realizing, like, I'm giving myself brain damage.

02:47:27.000 Well, someone else is doing it to me.

02:47:28.000 But my choices for sparring and fighting, I'm getting brain damage.

02:47:33.000 And I'm like, how do I know when I become that guy?

02:47:35.000 Does he know?

02:47:38.000 Are you 100% aware when the deterioration sets in?

02:47:42.000 Because the quality of my thinking, my ability to solve problems is what kept me sane.

02:47:47.000 My ability to work my way through things, my ability to obsess at things and figure out how to get better at them, that was the only thing that brought me any joy.

02:47:55.000 And all of a sudden, that's gonna go away and I'm relying on what?

02:47:58.000 Only my physical gifts?

02:48:01.000 But what about my mind?

02:48:02.000 Am I going to have a hard time communicating?

02:48:04.000 The quality of my thinking is going to suffer based on my choices?

02:48:08.000 And then I started really thinking about it.

02:48:10.000 I was like, I can't keep doing this.

02:48:11.000 And thank God for me at the time, there wasn't a viable professional option.

02:48:17.000 Because if there was a professional option for fighting for me, I had thought about boxing.

02:48:21.000 One of my good training partners actually became a middleweight boxing champion in New England, Dana Rosenblatt.

02:48:29.000 He was a good training partner of mine.

02:48:30.000 We sparred a lot.

02:48:31.000 And he went on to beat Vinnie Pazienza.

02:48:35.000 He beat Howard Davis Jr. He knocked out Howard Davis Jr. He was a legit pro boxer.

02:48:40.000 And when we started out together, he was a kickboxer.

02:48:43.000 And he had made a career in behind.

02:48:44.000 I was like, man, but that's... 1.00

02:48:45.000 Fuck! 1.00

02:48:47.000 I just knew that that road was fraught with peril and there wasn't a clear path. 1.00

02:48:52.000 It wasn't like when I was starting out doing Taekwondo where there was a clear path, like I wanted to get into the Olympic Games.

02:48:59.000 It wasn't a clear path with boxing or kickboxing.

02:49:02.000 That's probably what saved me.

02:49:04.000 Because if there was a clear path, I would have just dedicated myself to being a fighter and I would have never become a comedian.

02:49:09.000 Did you mourn it when you had to step out of the ring? 0.98

02:49:13.000 You mourn the excitement, the fear, the fear of competition, and then the fucking exhilarating feeling of victory. 0.99

02:49:23.000 The exhilarating feeling of victory is wild. 1.00

02:49:26.000 When you're at home and you're looking at this gold medal, you're like, holy fuck, I did it. 0.98

02:49:30.000 So for me, the person who was, like I said, I felt like I was a loser most of my life until I was 15 or 16 and I started getting good at martial arts. 0.98

02:49:38.000 I was like, oh my god, I'm good at something.

02:49:40.000 And this insecure feeling like a loser was replaced with this feeling of accomplishment and confidence and just a good feeling that I didn't really have in any other...

02:49:55.000 I didn't have that good of a feeling, the feeling of accomplishment, of victory.

02:49:59.000 So I was gonna do everything it took to keep that feeling.

02:50:04.000 That feeling was my new friend.

02:50:06.000 So that feeling was like, what does that feeling need to keep it going? 0.98

02:50:09.000 Oh, it needs me to train every fucking day? 0.99

02:50:10.000 Good. 1.00

02:50:11.000 I trained every fucking day. 1.00

02:50:12.000 I was teaching. 1.00

02:50:14.000 I mean, I was teaching at Boston University when I was 19. I was teaching an accredited Taekwondo course.

02:50:21.000 Yeah.

02:50:22.000 I'd won the American Open by then.

02:50:24.000 I'd won the state championship four years in a row.

02:50:27.000 I was all in.

02:50:28.000 That's all I did.

02:50:29.000 Did comedy give you some of that feeling back? 0.98

02:50:32.000 No, comedy kicked me right in the dick and taught me... 1.00

02:50:35.000 Comedy doesn't give a fuck how good you are at kicking. 1.00

02:50:40.000 Comedy wants you to be funny. 0.98

02:50:42.000 And so it was a completely new challenge that made me rewire what I thought was necessary.

02:50:47.000 It's not just effort.

02:50:49.000 It's intelligent effort.

02:50:50.000 Just effort.

02:50:52.000 I'm just going to write all the time.

02:50:53.000 No, you have to think.

02:50:54.000 You have to think.

02:50:55.000 You can't just write.

02:50:57.000 You can't just perform.

02:50:58.000 You have to think about what are you performing.

02:51:00.000 You have to create your own material.

02:51:01.000 Because comedy is one of the weird things.

02:51:03.000 Comedy makes you.

02:51:04.000 You are a writer.

02:51:05.000 You're the producer.

02:51:07.000 You're the editor.

02:51:08.000 And you perform it.

02:51:10.000 You have to do the whole thing.

02:51:11.000 I'm like, oh god.

02:51:13.000 It's so difficult, but not unlike fighting.

02:51:17.000 You've got to punch, you've got to defend, you have to have footwork, you've got to be able to grapple a little bit, you've got to be able to win in the clinch, you've got to remember your game plan, you've got to best the other guys.

02:51:26.000 When you step off the stage and you killed, you got the last or the bitwork, is that comparable to winning a match?

02:51:35.000 No.

02:51:36.000 Not even close.

02:51:37.000 Not even close.

02:51:39.000 It's normal.

02:51:40.000 It's normal.

02:51:41.000 And you don't think about it too much because you think, got another show tomorrow night.

02:51:46.000 Get the notes out.

02:51:48.000 Enjoy it.

02:51:49.000 That was fun.

02:51:49.000 That's great.

02:51:50.000 But I almost don't...

02:51:51.000 The more successful I get, the less it's extraordinary. 1.00

02:51:55.000 And the more it's just like, that's what you're supposed to do, stupid. 1.00

02:51:58.000 Get back to work. 1.00

02:52:00.000 But fighting was always like... 1.00

02:52:02.000 Holy shit. 1.00

02:52:03.000 I remember going back to my house and sitting in my room after a big tournament looking at a medal going, what the fuck, man? 1.00

02:52:12.000 And then I had VHS tapes, so I'd watch a VHS tape of me kicking someone's head off and going, what the fuck, man? 1.00

02:52:18.000 You're watching your VHS tapes instead of porn. 1.00

02:52:20.000 What's that?

02:52:22.000 I had porn too, but we it just seemed fake It seemed like because the stark contrast between being a loser and being a winner was like so immediate Because it was like I was a loser when I was 13 I was a winner when I was 16 and I was winning all the time It's like this is crazy and luckily I had physical talent like just natural born with certain amount of physical abilities and So that like when I learned,

02:52:47.000 I didn't just learn, I was really fast. 0.56

02:52:49.000 I was really fast and I could hit really hard.

02:52:50.000 It was unusual.

02:52:52.000 So I'd found a thing and it wasn't just a thing that I could focus on.

02:52:56.000 It was also a thing that I had gifts for.

02:52:59.000 Is it the being a winner or the not being a loser that's driving you?

02:53:04.000 They're the same thing.

02:53:05.000 No, they're not, though.

02:53:07.000 Yeah, they're the same thing.

02:53:08.000 If you're not a loser, you're a winner.

02:53:09.000 And if you figure out a way to not be a loser, it doesn't mean that you're not going to lose.

02:53:15.000 You're going to lose. 0.82

02:53:16.000 But what is a loser?

02:53:17.000 A loser is a person who just gives into losing, and you never figure out how to get better.

02:53:21.000 It's not you win every time.

02:53:23.000 That's not a winner.

02:53:25.000 Like a winner is someone who is in the process of evolving and developing and getting better.

02:53:30.000 A loser is someone who quits.

02:53:32.000 You give up. 0.87

02:53:32.000 You can't take it. 0.87

02:53:33.000 You lay down.

02:53:34.000 So like when I would see that in other people, that would drive me crazy.

02:53:38.000 That was like the predatory...

02:53:40.000 I could smell it.

02:53:41.000 I would just smell the weakness.

02:53:43.000 I was like, ugh!

02:53:45.000 Like I couldn't be friends with people like that.

02:53:46.000 It would drive me nuts. 0.97

02:53:47.000 I'd want to pick on them, like a dog does.

02:53:51.000 That's an evolved way to look at it because the competitive nature of me, and we both talk to very competitive people all the time, every loss feels a little bit like a loser.

02:54:03.000 It's almost a reminder that at any point, well, I can go from being a winner to being a loser.

02:54:11.000 If I lost this...

02:54:13.000 What if I never win again? 0.74

02:54:14.000 I believe that and I think that most fighters feel like that and when a fighter loses his title, you know, like when Anthony Joshua lost to Usyk that night, I guarantee you he felt fucking terrible, right?

02:54:25.000 I'm not, but what did he do?

02:54:27.000 He immediately went back to the drawing board, immediately called for a rematch, immediately started searching for other trainers because he's not a loser.

02:54:34.000 He's a winner.

02:54:35.000 He just lost. 0.99

02:54:36.000 The difference is someone who just fucking lays down and says, woe is me, and you know, you can make that argument for Tyson Fury at one point in time, even though he didn't lose, he acted like a loser. 0.99

02:54:48.000 Like he was gonna commit suicide, he was drinking, he was fucked up, he had depression, anxiety, but, because he's not a loser, He figured out this is not good. 0.98

02:54:58.000 He's like, I gotta course correct. 0.99

02:55:00.000 And he did course correct and went back and became the fucking heavyweight champion of the world again. 0.99

02:55:04.000 Because he's not a loser. 1.00

02:55:06.000 He's a guy that lost, but it doesn't mean that you can't fuck up. 0.99

02:55:10.000 It doesn't mean that you can't make mistakes. 0.98

02:55:11.000 It doesn't mean you can't come up short in whatever you're attempting to do.

02:55:15.000 But figure it out.

02:55:17.000 Regroup.

02:55:18.000 Get back in there.

02:55:19.000 How'd you figure that out though?

02:55:21.000 Time.

02:55:22.000 Just time.

02:55:23.000 Time and thinking.

02:55:25.000 You know, the lessons that you learn, that you apply from martial arts, you can apply to everything.

02:55:32.000 The things about really difficult physical pursuits that involve emotions like fighting.

02:55:38.000 And nothing involves emotions like fighting.

02:55:41.000 Someone beats you in a basketball game, they beat you. 1.00

02:55:43.000 You could always say, but I could fuck you up. 1.00

02:55:45.000 If we want to take this shit outside, talk a lot of shit, I'll smack you in front of the fucking... 1.00

02:55:49.000 In front of the coach. 1.00

02:55:50.000 I don't give a shit. 1.00

02:55:51.000 I'll fight you. 1.00

02:55:52.000 If I fight you, that's real beating. 1.00

02:55:55.000 If someone beats you up, you can't say, yeah, but I could fuck you up in basketball because no one cares. 0.99

02:56:01.000 No one cares. 0.99

02:56:02.000 Fighting is the end of the line.

02:56:03.000 It's the end of the line.

02:56:07.000 There's emotions involved in that that they're inescapable.

02:56:12.000 But you can't let them define you.

02:56:13.000 When you lose and you have those horrible emotions, you've got to use that as fuel and you've got to get back into it.

02:56:19.000 Oh man, I wish I could have thought my way through to that epiphany.

02:56:22.000 I'm there with you, but it was a hard road.

02:56:25.000 Yeah, it's a hard road.

02:56:26.000 It's not easy.

02:56:26.000 I burned my life down a few times.

02:56:28.000 I'm sure.

02:56:29.000 And each time I was like, well, this is it.

02:56:32.000 I guess it's the ashes for me.

02:56:34.000 Well, there's a lot of people out there that think that way right now, listening to this. 0.99

02:56:38.000 Yeah, and again, I hope there was something more grand in my character than simple vanity, but if I'm honest, to point to, like, well, I can't be here in the ass, it's all dirty, and I look like shit here. 1.00

02:56:50.000 I can't have this fat face. 1.00

02:56:52.000 Stomach, yeah, all these people. 0.98

02:56:53.000 I gotta quit drinking.

02:56:54.000 I can't die of lung cancer and be coughing in front of girls. 0.97

02:56:57.000 Oh my god, man, it's that.

02:56:59.000 I was like, I can't live the rest of my life at this level, so I find something else to get back on my feet and take what I've learned and take a little bit of what I can get out of the ashes and put that as a part of the next thing.

02:57:16.000 And so, you know, here I am, and hopefully this house doesn't catch on fire, and certainly I'm not the one with the match.

02:57:23.000 It's so difficult, man.

02:57:25.000 Yeah, it's difficult, but you're not going to catch your life on fire.

02:57:29.000 You're not. 0.94

02:57:30.000 You're not dumb.

02:57:32.000 It's like people define themselves by failures and successes, which is good and bad.

02:57:38.000 It's good because you can kind of get a tally and a running score of whether or not you're doing the right thing, but it's bad in that with each...

02:57:46.000 Thing that doesn't go right you have this feeling that nothing's gonna go right and this is it from here on out I'm just a fucking loser it's all gonna fall apart and some people that becomes They're fulfilling a self-fulfilling prophecy.

02:57:59.000 They decide that that's who they are, and they don't course-correct.

02:58:04.000 They don't regroup, and they never do.

02:58:06.000 They never rebuild.

02:58:07.000 That's unfortunate.

02:58:08.000 And they'll sabotage.

02:58:08.000 They'll believe, you can only get this far, and then if I get any place past that, then they end up destroying it themselves, because they can't see themselves in a different light, anything better than what they've conceived of prior.

02:58:21.000 Yeah, it's very limiting. 0.98

02:58:23.000 It's very scary, too, because when you get stuck like that, man, fuck, dude, it's so hard to get out. 0.99

02:58:28.000 It's so hard to get out when you're stuck like that. 0.98

02:58:30.000 It's so hard to, like, you'd have to find something that you're successful in and then sort of build up your confidence from there.

02:58:36.000 Yeah, it's something to live for bigger than your anxiety or bigger than your defeatist mentality.

02:58:42.000 That's hard, especially if you're a grown adult, right?

02:58:45.000 See, with me in martial arts, I found it when I was a kid.

02:58:48.000 So I didn't have a job.

02:58:49.000 I couldn't have a job.

02:58:49.000 It's not even legal.

02:58:51.000 It's not legal for me to have a job.

02:58:52.000 I have to work out.

02:58:53.000 So I had to do something.

02:58:56.000 But if you are an adult and then you have to pay your bills and you have a family and you're falling apart and you have an idea of some new thing you want to try but it's really risky, Yeah.

02:59:06.000 Ooh, that's hard.

02:59:08.000 That's tough. 0.99

02:59:09.000 That's fucking hard. 0.99

02:59:10.000 That's the hardest. 0.99

02:59:10.000 Is broadcasting MMA a way you found back to the sport that maybe you thought for a while you were gone from completely? 0.99

02:59:20.000 No, because I never stopped training.

02:59:22.000 I always did something.

02:59:24.000 I started doing jujitsu.

02:59:26.000 I kickboxed for a while, even when I wasn't fighting.

02:59:29.000 I always trained.

02:59:31.000 I had a knee surgery that I had to get done in the early days of my comedy career.

02:59:36.000 I had a tore ACL. That's actually probably one of the things that kept me from fighting again, too, because I probably would have, from bombing, I would have at least tried a couple of times just to get a good feeling because I knew I could win some fights.

02:59:47.000 But when I went to different gyms, like in California, I was doing the Jet Center.

02:59:54.000 I was training there.

02:59:55.000 And then I started doing jujitsu later after that.

02:59:58.000 So I always did something.

03:00:00.000 And then the UFC needed a backstage interviewer.

03:00:04.000 And there's just sheer luck.

03:00:06.000 My manager, my comedy manager, was friends with one of the guys who was the producer of the UFC, this early producer, this guy, Campbell McLaren, who's a great guy.

03:00:15.000 And he hired me.

03:00:16.000 He's like, do you like the sport? 0.98

03:00:17.000 I go, I fucking love the sport. 0.92

03:00:18.000 Because I was watching like the UFC on, you know, it was on like satellite. 0.94

03:00:22.000 It wasn't even on cable back then.

03:00:24.000 I used to have to get like the red box, like the, had to get the jimmy little box so I could watch it on the scraggly channel.

03:00:30.000 It was banned from cable.

03:00:32.000 I got DirecTV specifically because that was the only way you could get UFC fights.

03:00:38.000 Because they banned it from cable.

03:00:40.000 That's how crazy it is.

03:00:40.000 And now it's on ESPN+. You get it on your fucking phone.

03:00:43.000 It's on ESPN, regular ESPN. People were getting their arms broke. 1.00

03:00:46.000 Oh, yeah. 0.99

03:00:47.000 People were getting fucked up. 1.00

03:00:48.000 With their heads split open. 1.00

03:00:50.000 Yeah.

03:00:50.000 Bro, the first events that I went to live when I worked as a post-fight interviewer, you didn't even have to wear gloves.

03:00:55.000 You could wear wrestling shoes, bare knuckles, punch people in the dick. 0.93

03:00:58.000 Guys in there with geese and, like, intentionally breaking arms. 0.99

03:01:02.000 Like, it was no...

03:01:03.000 You could give guys wedgies. 0.97

03:01:05.000 For real.

03:01:06.000 Was that a thing? 1.00

03:01:07.000 Yeah, you could grab guys by their cup and, like, yank their fucking... 0.99

03:01:10.000 Oh. 0.99

03:01:12.000 Yeah, somebody had their cup broke in a match.

03:01:14.000 Valid Ishmael, uh, Valigi, he's, uh, this, uh, like, legendary jiu-jitsu guy.

03:01:19.000 He was fighting, and it was, like, UFC 13 or some shit.

03:01:25.000 I forget which one it was, but it was early, early in the day.

03:01:28.000 And the dude he was fighting was, like, literally, like, giving him a wedgie while he's fighting.

03:01:33.000 Well, like, half his butt cheek was hanging out of his, uh, his shorts.

03:01:37.000 God, did he tap? 0.99

03:01:39.000 No, he beat the fuck out of the dude. 0.93

03:01:41.000 I don't remember who won the fight, actually, now that I say that, but he's a guy who had a jiu-jitsu match with Hoist Gracie on the beach in Rio de Janeiro when Hoist Gracie had won the UFC and he choked Hoist Gracie to sleep on the beach.

03:01:57.000 That's not easy to do.

03:01:58.000 Oh my god, it was incredible.

03:02:00.000 See if you can find that.

03:02:02.000 W-A-L-I-D. When you say on the beach, what do you mean on the beach? 0.98

03:02:07.000 They set up mats on the beach.

03:02:10.000 I think it was at Copacabana Beach.

03:02:12.000 And then they surrounded it with just spectators.

03:02:17.000 No octagon, no fence.

03:02:19.000 This is it.

03:02:20.000 This is them.

03:02:21.000 That's literally sand.

03:02:22.000 That's sand around the mat?

03:02:23.000 Yes.

03:02:24.000 That's crazy.

03:02:25.000 There's a match and then there's sand.

03:02:27.000 And this is... 1.00

03:02:28.000 They're literally fighting on the fucking beach. 0.99

03:02:32.000 And this is BJJ history, right? 0.99

03:02:35.000 Because this is...

03:02:36.000 For them, and it says that in the title of the match, and this is 100% true, because this was also different schools of thought in terms of the strategy of jiu-jitsu.

03:02:45.000 Carlson Gracie was a hard style.

03:02:47.000 That was where Valid Ismail came from.

03:02:50.000 And Hoyce was with his dad, Ilio Gracie, which is a more technical style. 0.99

03:02:56.000 And Valid, at this point in time, he was a fucking animal, man. 0.98

03:03:00.000 Physically super, super strong guy. 0.99

03:03:02.000 And came from this real aggressive team, Carlson Gracie team.

03:03:07.000 And Carlson Gracie was also one of the early pioneers of jujitsu no-holds-barred matches.

03:03:14.000 So he had no-holds-barred matches, and he beat guys that Elio Gracie, who's Hoyce's dad, lost to, like Waldemar Santana.

03:03:22.000 So they brought in Carlson to beat him.

03:03:26.000 Carlson was like one of the greatest jiu-jitsu fighters that ever lived.

03:03:29.000 And that was the first gym that I started out was actually Carlson Gracie's place.

03:03:33.000 So when he, well actually I did Hickson's first, but I only did it for one class.

03:03:37.000 But when he choked out Hoist Gracie, he got him with what's called a clock choke. 1.00

03:03:43.000 And put Hoist Gracie to sleep. 0.99

03:03:46.000 It was...

03:03:46.000 Is that what we're looking...

03:03:47.000 Is that what...

03:03:47.000 No.

03:03:47.000 No, not yet.

03:03:48.000 They're still scrambling right now.

03:03:50.000 But he's...

03:03:51.000 Well, actually, he might have a hand on the collar right now.

03:03:53.000 Yeah, he did.

03:03:54.000 He's got it already.

03:03:54.000 He's got it.

03:03:55.000 He put him to sleep. 1.00

03:03:56.000 Fuck. 1.00

03:03:57.000 Yeah. 1.00

03:03:57.000 Oh! 1.00

03:03:58.000 How do they even...

03:04:00.000 That was it, yeah.

03:04:01.000 So he did have it already.

03:04:02.000 How do they even see that he's asleep down there?

03:04:04.000 I haven't done the gi clock choke in a while, but the way the gi clock choke works, you get a grip on this like this, like here's a person's collar, you grip here, and then this hand goes underneath the armpit, and you spin like this.

03:04:17.000 And when you spin, you have his neck wrapped up in his collar, and then you have your arm on the other side.

03:04:23.000 So it's like if you had a rope.

03:04:25.000 Yeah, exactly.

03:04:25.000 Watch how he does it.

03:04:27.000 So if you watch how he rolls, he's rolling.

03:04:31.000 It's hard to tell because it wasn't the best cinematography.

03:04:34.000 But he's got his one arm is wrapped completely.

03:04:38.000 See that?

03:04:38.000 His left arm...

03:04:40.000 Is under and attached to his neck, and the right arm is under and attached to his collar, and he puts him to sleep.

03:04:47.000 Yeah, he's lucky. 0.91

03:04:49.000 This was fucking huge in the jiu-jitsu world. 0.95

03:04:52.000 Because there was a... 0.98

03:04:53.000 The jiu-jitsu world is pretty united now.

03:04:55.000 Like, everybody's...

03:04:56.000 There's competition, but everyone is just, like, supportive of the fact that jiu-jitsu is this amazing martial art.

03:05:01.000 But back then, there was, like, some serious factions.

03:05:03.000 There were schools of thought.

03:05:04.000 There was teams that hated other teams.

03:05:06.000 They would fight on sight if they saw each other.

03:05:08.000 Like gangs.

03:05:09.000 Oh man, like gangs.

03:05:10.000 Yeah, there was a lot of like dojo wars back then where guys from one school would show up at another guy's school and want to fight.

03:05:18.000 Like an actual kung fu movie.

03:05:20.000 That's what every kung fu movie is based on.

03:05:22.000 Those were real, dude.

03:05:23.000 We had those in the Taekwondo days too.

03:05:25.000 Guys would come in from other gyms.

03:05:26.000 They'd want to spar right away.

03:05:28.000 They wanted to fight.

03:05:29.000 They wanted to come and fight and you would fight, you know, full contact in the middle of the gym with someone you just met.

03:05:35.000 And somebody coming to your gym asking for a fight is mad disrespectful.

03:05:39.000 That was the old days.

03:05:40.000 They all did it.

03:05:41.000 It was Dojo Wars.

03:05:42.000 They all did it back then.

03:05:44.000 This great video is called Gracie in Action.

03:05:47.000 And the Gracie in Action videos, a lot of those videos are... 0.97

03:05:51.000 Someone would come to their gym and talk some shit, and they'll go, do you want to fight? 1.00

03:05:54.000 And they're like, I want to fight you right now, motherfucker. 1.00

03:05:56.000 Like, okay, great, we're going to set up a camera. 1.00

03:05:58.000 And they would set up a camera, and this guy would come in and try to do some kung fu, and then someone like Hoyce, or Hickson, or Horian, or any of these Gracies would take them down and fuck them up. 1.00

03:06:09.000 And Horian, in his infinite wisdom, used that as an advertisement for jujitsu.

03:06:13.000 See if you can find some Gracie in action, because first of all, Horian has that beautiful Portuguese-Brazilian jiu-jitsu accent.

03:06:21.000 His original language is Portuguese, so the way he talks, everything sounds so smooth.

03:06:27.000 So he's explaining to you, the jiu-jitsu practitioner takes him to the ground easily and submits him with a choke.

03:06:36.000 These videos, this is Horry and Gracie back in the day.

03:06:41.000 See, it's beautiful, right?

03:06:43.000 Straight out of Scarface.

03:06:44.000 For us to introduce the first series on the basics of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.

03:06:48.000 I feel confident that the simple techniques that you will learn on these videos will increase your effectiveness on self defense.

03:06:54.000 By the way, let me just say this.

03:06:56.000 Jorge and Gracie back in the day, when they made this video, he offered money to fight Mike Tyson in Playboy magazine.

03:07:03.000 He said he'd fight Mike Tyson in a no-holds-barred match for a million dollars.

03:07:07.000 Yeah, no thanks. 0.99

03:07:08.000 Yeah, no thanks, but if he got a hold of him and grabbed him and dragged him to the ground, Mike Tyson would be fucked. 0.99

03:07:15.000 I'm saying no thanks for Mike Tyson. 0.98

03:07:17.000 On his behalf, no thanks.

03:07:18.000 So he was trying to find ways to popularize Jiu Jitsu and he wound up starting the Ultimate Fighting Championship.

03:07:26.000 Horian Gracie is the mastermind behind the UFC. So when the UFC is taking place this weekend and I'm doing commentary, None of that shit would have happened if it wasn't for that man that you just saw in that video.

03:07:36.000 See if you can find the Gracie in action.

03:07:39.000 Just title Gracie in action videos.

03:07:42.000 I think that the Gracies is what got me so addicted to the UFC back in the day when I had the hotbox.

03:07:49.000 Yeah. 0.99

03:07:49.000 Those are the guys breaking people's arms and shit, right? 0.99

03:07:52.000 Hold on. 0.99

03:07:52.000 Go back and I'll tell you. 0.99

03:07:53.000 That one right there where it says combatives in action.

03:07:56.000 See right there?

03:07:57.000 There it is.

03:07:58.000 Okay.

03:07:58.000 Perfect example.

03:07:59.000 See, this guy's got fucking pants on. 1.00

03:08:01.000 Thinks he's a badass. 1.00

03:08:02.000 And he's going to get strangled. 0.95

03:08:05.000 And there's a shit ton of these and they're all like really grainy VHS tapes where these people didn't know what they were doing and they thought they were badasses and they went and tried to have a street fight and now he's tapping. 0.94

03:08:18.000 But there's a ton of these.

03:08:20.000 Well, that's actually Henner.

03:08:21.000 Henner Gracie, when he's just doing this and showing...

03:08:25.000 But this is an actual challenge match.

03:08:28.000 But there's a ton of them, man.

03:08:30.000 They have a shitload of them.

03:08:31.000 And they basically accumulated a database of showing that they have a superior martial art.

03:08:35.000 So it was a style war.

03:08:37.000 Like, okay, we fight this way, you fight that way.

03:08:40.000 The early UFCs were basically an infomercial for Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.

03:08:47.000 Right.

03:08:47.000 It was basically an infomercial for Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu eventually.

03:08:50.000 And then it became an infomercial for the power of steroids and wrestling. 0.99

03:08:55.000 Ground and pound.

03:08:56.000 Then it was like Muay Thai, kickboxing, leg kicks.

03:08:58.000 And there was a lot of different styles that sort of showed what they could do until it became what it is now, where it's like just fighting.

03:09:05.000 Like the best fighting.

03:09:06.000 What's your style?

03:09:07.000 How would you characterize your style?

03:09:09.000 Well, I started off as a striker.

03:09:11.000 I started off kickboxing and taekwondo, but then I have a black belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu.

03:09:16.000 I learned jiu-jitsu later in life.

03:09:19.000 I have a black belt in gi, and I have a black belt in no gi.

03:09:23.000 So two different kinds of jiu-jitsu.

03:09:24.000 It's both Brazilian jiu-jitsu, but one, you're wearing that...

03:09:29.000 And the other one, you don't grab clothes at all.

03:09:31.000 The other one is no gi.

03:09:32.000 And in no gi, it's just about clinching and submission holds and position dominance.

03:09:37.000 It's more like you're using wrestling control and then applying submissions to it.

03:09:42.000 Nobody in modern MMA would be wearing a gi anymore, right? 0.71

03:09:45.000 Some guys do in other organizations.

03:09:47.000 They still allow them.

03:09:48.000 In Japan, they used to allow guys to fight with the gi. 0.62

03:09:51.000 And it was a huge advantage for the guy that's used to using a gi because you can do a lot of chokes with it. 0.95

03:09:57.000 If a guy comes at you and he has a gi, you're going to grab it. 1.00

03:10:01.000 You don't even know why. 0.98

03:10:02.000 If he's trying to grab ahold of you, you're going to hold onto his clothes because you think, oh, yeah, well, I'll fucking grab your clothes. 0.93

03:10:07.000 Yeah, that's what they do every day.

03:10:08.000 So if you're a guy who doesn't train with a gi, and you fought Hoist Gracie back in the day, Hoist would just close the distance, and people would just grab him. 0.85

03:10:18.000 They couldn't help themselves.

03:10:20.000 They just grabbed that gi, and the next thing, boom, they're on their back. 0.99

03:10:23.000 Boom, their arm's getting fucked up. 0.98

03:10:25.000 Boom, they're getting triangled. 0.99

03:10:27.000 You said that you thought about returning to jujitsu when you bombed on stage.

03:10:35.000 No, that wasn't jujitsu.

03:10:37.000 That was kickboxing.

03:10:38.000 Yeah, because I just wanted to do something that I was good at, because I sucked at comedy.

03:10:42.000 What was that?

03:10:43.000 It was just like bombing in comedy, like a depression? 1.00

03:10:46.000 Bombing is like, I always say it's like sucking a thousand dicks in front of your mother. 1.00

03:10:50.000 But I think there's someone... 1.00

03:10:53.000 I can't risk it. 0.99

03:10:54.000 What the fuck are you talking about? 1.00

03:10:55.000 There's someone out there that probably likes sucking a thousand dicks in front of his mom. 1.00

03:10:59.000 Like, I'm doing this because of you, mom! 1.00

03:11:02.000 99!

03:11:05.000 100! 1.00

03:11:06.000 There's someone out there that would like sucking a thousand dicks. 1.00

03:11:10.000 No one likes bombing. 1.00

03:11:11.000 No one likes it.

03:11:12.000 It's just utter failure. 0.63

03:11:14.000 You'd have to hate yourself so much to like bombing. 0.98

03:11:18.000 If you like bombing, you'd probably hate yourself so much you shouldn't be alive. 0.85

03:11:23.000 Well, okay, so let's call that depression.

03:11:26.000 It's not fun.

03:11:27.000 But it's just a loss.

03:11:29.000 It's just a big loss. 1.00

03:11:31.000 The thing about fighting is if you lose to someone, it fucking sucks. 1.00

03:11:34.000 It fucking sucks. 1.00

03:11:35.000 It eats at you, and it drives you to get better, and it just rematch. 1.00

03:11:40.000 But there's something about bombing on stage.

03:11:44.000 They don't like you. 0.98

03:11:46.000 It's not like your performance sucked. 0.91

03:11:48.000 They don't like you. 0.93

03:11:50.000 Like, I don't like you. 1.00

03:11:51.000 Like, whatever you are sucks. 1.00

03:11:58.000 Boy, yeah, you're right. 1.00

03:11:59.000 I gotta stop reading the comment sections.

03:12:01.000 Yeah!

03:12:01.000 That's what I'm saying.

03:12:02.000 Don't read the fucking comments. 1.00

03:12:03.000 How do you deal with that? 1.00

03:12:05.000 I mean, everybody bombs.

03:12:07.000 As you said, you can't win them all.

03:12:09.000 You gotta deal with all losses as an opportunity to learn and grow.

03:12:13.000 But then, before you were this wise...

03:12:15.000 I wasn't that wise back then, but I was wise enough to know that inherently.

03:12:19.000 And I just had to regroup, deal with it, suck it up, and keep going.

03:12:24.000 And it wasn't easy.

03:12:26.000 That's the thing that I think makes a lot of...

03:12:30.000 Potentially really good comics quit is they can't take the pain of sucking and there's no structure, right?

03:12:37.000 There's no like if you want to learn music you can go to Juilliard, right?

03:12:40.000 You can go to there's people that teach guitar lessons.

03:12:43.000 You can go and you can learn, you know You can watch videos and you can pick up technique and you can learn how to play saxophone It's it's it's available.

03:12:52.000 It's possible.

03:12:53.000 Sure.

03:12:53.000 There's no one could teach you to be funny And I can't teach you because your style might be different than Donnell's style.

03:13:00.000 Donnell's style is gonna be different than my style.

03:13:03.000 My style is gonna be different than David Tell's style.

03:13:05.000 David Tell's style is gonna be different than Jim Brewer's style.

03:13:08.000 Everybody's got a different style.

03:13:09.000 There's no style dojos for comedy.

03:13:12.000 There's nothing.

03:13:12.000 There's no classes.

03:13:13.000 The classes are all taught by has-beens or wannabes, right? 1.00

03:13:17.000 Most of the time.

03:13:18.000 I'm sure there's some professional comedians out there that teach comedy classes.

03:13:21.000 I don't want to discourage them or disparage them.

03:13:23.000 But most of what I've seen, when I see people teach comedy, they're not good at it in the first place.

03:13:28.000 And they're applying, like...

03:13:30.000 I've seen a few classes where they're applying things that probably would be detrimental to your overall career, like cookie-cutter, formulaic versions of how to write comedy.

03:13:39.000 But what they do do is at least they allow people to get on stage for the first time.

03:13:45.000 So that might be enough.

03:13:47.000 They just get their beak wet, get them moving, and then next thing you know, they're actually doing comedy.

03:13:53.000 And they're showing up at open mic nights, and they're part of the community, and they're trying, and they're writing and getting better.

03:13:59.000 When you showed up at that open mic, the first time in front of people who were not your friends already.

03:14:03.000 Right.

03:14:04.000 Did you bomb?

03:14:05.000 I didn't bomb the first time, but I did not have a good set.

03:14:07.000 The second set I ever had was pretty good.

03:14:09.000 I had a bunch of laughs, and that was super encouraging.

03:14:12.000 I didn't bomb, I think, until maybe the fourth or fifth set.

03:14:17.000 I had a bad one.

03:14:18.000 I was like, oh, I didn't know that could happen.

03:14:20.000 But none of them were good.

03:14:22.000 None of them were like, I'll tell you, my material was polished.

03:14:25.000 But I got some laughs.

03:14:27.000 I got some laughs.

03:14:28.000 To the point where, okay, I see the road.

03:14:31.000 I don't know how far I have to go, but I see the path, and I think I'm going to keep going.

03:14:37.000 It was one of those things.

03:14:39.000 Like goal-oriented?

03:14:39.000 You see the path to being a comic on TV with a special or a sitcom, like, oh, this is my road to somewhere?

03:14:48.000 No, no, no, no.

03:14:49.000 No, I thought I could make a living.

03:14:51.000 I think I could be a professional.

03:14:53.000 I think I could be a professional.

03:14:55.000 That's what I thought.

03:14:56.000 I saw professionals in town in Boston, and I was like, that guy's pretty funny.

03:15:00.000 I wonder what it's like to be him.

03:15:02.000 He's a professional.

03:15:03.000 He makes a living just telling jokes. 0.96

03:15:05.000 He doesn't have to deliver newspapers or do construction or whatever the fuck I was doing at the time. 0.92

03:15:11.000 All right. 0.90

03:15:11.000 Yeah. 0.90

03:15:13.000 Were you doing other jobs at the time?

03:15:15.000 Oh, yeah.

03:15:15.000 In the early days, for sure, yeah.

03:15:18.000 Yeah, the early days, I was teaching for a little while, but then I realized I couldn't teach and do comedy at the same time because I wasn't into it.

03:15:25.000 I wasn't just teaching, I was teaching and taking people to tournaments.

03:15:29.000 So I would take students to tournaments and I would coach them, and I was realizing I wasn't in it.

03:15:34.000 I wasn't in it mentally.

03:15:35.000 Before, I was obsessed.

03:15:37.000 And if someone was a student and they were obsessed too, I would take them to tournaments.

03:15:41.000 I'd help them fight.

03:15:42.000 I'd train them.

03:15:43.000 There was quite a few people that I'd taken, even young people, that I'd taken and brought them up through the ranks and gave them higher belts and brought them to tournaments.

03:15:54.000 I couldn't do that anymore.

03:15:55.000 I didn't care.

03:15:55.000 I wasn't thinking about that anymore.

03:15:57.000 All I was thinking about was comedy.

03:15:58.000 And I was trying to get good at comedy, so I had to quit.

03:16:01.000 And I did everything else.

03:16:03.000 I just delivered pizzas.

03:16:05.000 I drove limos, construction.

03:16:09.000 I worked for a private investigator for a while.

03:16:12.000 I did a bunch of things.

03:16:13.000 What did you do for a private investigator?

03:16:16.000 It was a guy that became a very good friend of mine who died a few years ago.

03:16:21.000 Dynamite Dickless Dave Dolan.

03:16:22.000 He was the best.

03:16:23.000 Probably the funniest guy I've ever met that wasn't a comic.

03:16:26.000 Like, definitely the funniest guy I've ever met.

03:16:27.000 Did he name himself that?

03:16:28.000 Yeah.

03:16:28.000 Okay, well, he's hilarious.

03:16:29.000 He would leave messages on my voicemail.

03:16:32.000 Dynamite Dickless Dave Dolan here.

03:16:34.000 He was a character.

03:16:35.000 But he had lost his license from drinking and driving.

03:16:38.000 And he just needed a driver.

03:16:41.000 And it said, like, private investigator's assistant.

03:16:43.000 I'm like, well, that looks like a fun job.

03:16:45.000 So he hired me as a private investigator's assistant.

03:16:49.000 I can already see you in the fedora, like the gumshoe, the smoky door with Rogan on the front.

03:16:55.000 You have to wear normal clothes.

03:16:58.000 The whole idea is you've got to blend in.

03:17:01.000 A lot of it was insurance, like busting people that were pretending they were hurt, but they were really working under the table somewhere else.

03:17:09.000 They were taking insurance money.

03:17:11.000 Because this is pre-internet, you know? 1.00

03:17:12.000 People could get away with that shit. 1.00

03:17:14.000 There was a lot of that. 1.00

03:17:16.000 No, like cheating spouses?

03:17:18.000 One of those.

03:17:18.000 There was one of those that was pretty significant.

03:17:20.000 I wasn't involved in that case too much, because I think Dave had already got his license back by then, but my God, he loved telling me about it.

03:17:27.000 I would help him sometimes.

03:17:28.000 I would go with him sometimes if you needed a certain person, because Dave and I stayed friends.

03:17:31.000 And it was just by sheer coincidence, Dave was the cousin of a guy named Bill Downs, and Bill Downs was one of the owners of the Comedy Connection.

03:17:40.000 Sheer coincidence. 0.98

03:17:42.000 So when I start working for him, he tells me that his cousin owns the fucking Comedy Connection. 0.93

03:17:48.000 So I saw him at the comedy club, too. 0.97

03:17:50.000 He was a guy who quit drinking like that, too.

03:17:52.000 I was always super impressed by that. 0.99

03:17:54.000 He had that one fucking car accident, ran from the cops, got a DUI, realized, what the fuck am I doing, and just quit. 1.00

03:18:01.000 He didn't go to meetings. 1.00

03:18:03.000 He didn't fucking, oh, I got my coin. 0.99

03:18:05.000 None of that. 1.00

03:18:06.000 He didn't give a fuck. 0.99

03:18:07.000 He just quit. 0.99

03:18:08.000 He goes, that wasn't for me.

03:18:10.000 I had a good time, but I'm done.

03:18:12.000 And he never drank again.

03:18:14.000 That's admirable.

03:18:16.000 That's admirable.

03:18:17.000 I think that might have been my weed experience, believe it or not.

03:18:21.000 Dude, it's already 5 o'clock.

03:18:23.000 Is it?

03:18:23.000 Yeah, we've been talking forever.

03:18:24.000 How long have we been talking?

03:18:26.000 He said...

03:18:27.000 How long?

03:18:28.000 3.20?

03:18:30.000 3 hours and 20 minutes.

03:18:31.000 How crazy is that?

03:18:32.000 That's a good mark.

03:18:33.000 I like 320. That's a good way to end.

03:18:35.000 Till this day, it's available on Luminary.

03:18:39.000 Is it available on anything else?

03:18:41.000 Well, yeah, it's going to be on Apple Podcasts.

03:18:44.000 You can get that show there, and you can subscribe to Luminary.

03:18:48.000 But, Joe, I have one more question for you.

03:18:51.000 Okay.

03:18:52.000 We went down this road.

03:18:52.000 I want to know what or whom or how you would characterize your opponent in life.

03:19:02.000 Me.

03:19:03.000 For sure.

03:19:04.000 I mean, there's also stuff on the outside, but ultimately you're dealing with the way you attack it.

03:19:12.000 So, why do you attack it a certain way?

03:19:15.000 Is it the right way?

03:19:17.000 Or are you tricking yourself into thinking it's the right way because it's more comfortable that way?

03:19:22.000 Is it all your fault, but you want to blame other people?

03:19:26.000 Like, deciphering me.

03:19:29.000 Is the hardest.

03:19:31.000 And then discipline, you know, because you have adversity in life, but it's not like I have adversity all day, every day.

03:19:37.000 I'm dealing with me all day, every day. 0.99

03:19:40.000 Every fucking day, it's me. 1.00

03:19:42.000 The alarm clock goes off at 7 a.m., and me is like, fuck that, I want to sleep. 1.00

03:19:47.000 So I gotta fight me. 1.00

03:19:48.000 Hey pussy, get up. 1.00

03:19:50.000 I gotta press the stop. 1.00

03:19:51.000 Get up.

03:19:52.000 Wake up.

03:19:53.000 Start moving.

03:19:53.000 Walk.

03:19:54.000 Drink water.

03:19:55.000 Go pee.

03:19:56.000 Get going.

03:19:57.000 Alright, get to the gym.

03:19:58.000 Like, well, maybe I don't have to go to the gym today.

03:20:00.000 That's me.

03:20:01.000 Every day it's me.

03:20:02.000 Fighting with that me guy.

03:20:04.000 So me is 100% my biggest opponent.

03:20:07.000 Obviously there's external forces and things that are, you know, points of adversity that you learn from in life, failures, but a lot of it was my fault.

03:20:19.000 And so, like, a lot of that, other than, you know, the things that I couldn't handle when I was a child, or rather that I didn't have any control over when I was a child, it's all me.

03:20:28.000 It's weakness.

03:20:29.000 Yeah, weakness.

03:20:31.000 I heard what you said.

03:20:32.000 Yeah.

03:20:33.000 And the one through line for all of it was that you're constantly combating weakness.

03:20:37.000 Yeah. 0.56

03:20:38.000 And it makes perfect sense why you look like a monster when I hug you. 0.83

03:20:44.000 You're like... 0.99

03:20:45.000 You're like a tree trunk.

03:20:48.000 You are disciplined enough to have this experience, the Joe Rogan experience, do MMA, UFC broadcasting, have a comedy career, have all of these things going on simultaneously.

03:21:01.000 I still have to compartmentalize the stuff that I'm doing, which isn't all that different from what you're doing, but clearly not at this level, so I can appreciate that.

03:21:09.000 How much discipline it takes to put a life like yours together and execute it so excellently.

03:21:15.000 Well thank you.

03:21:16.000 That's very nice of you.

03:21:17.000 The fact that every day and all day you best your weakness?

03:21:22.000 Yeah.

03:21:23.000 Might be the greatest victory of all in life.

03:21:28.000 Like, if you can beat the weakness inside you, well then all this is possible.

03:21:32.000 Yeah, but you really don't even win.

03:21:34.000 You just win for the day.

03:21:36.000 That's exactly right. 1.00

03:21:36.000 And the weakness is like, see you tomorrow, bitch. 1.00

03:21:38.000 Exactly. 1.00

03:21:39.000 See you tomorrow.

03:21:40.000 Oh, by the way, you're getting older.

03:21:42.000 One of the weaknesses is thinking that you won.

03:21:46.000 Yes.

03:21:46.000 Oh, that's enough.

03:21:47.000 Yeah.

03:21:48.000 I also do it for mental health like the working out stuff is like I Need my workouts to be so much harder than anything else I ever do in life because it makes everything else easy So the workouts are so goddamn brutal that everything else is easy.

03:22:06.000 So a lot of like my build is a It's a factor of the work. 0.91

03:22:11.000 It's not like a goal to like be built like a brick shit house It's like the work requires So much strain and so much effort. 0.99

03:22:22.000 And the end result is you just look jacked. 0.99

03:22:25.000 But it's just...

03:22:26.000 I'm doing it for mental health more than anything.

03:22:29.000 It's like I need it to be hard.

03:22:31.000 It can't be easy.

03:22:33.000 I can't...

03:22:33.000 I'm not a stroller.

03:22:34.000 I don't stroll.

03:22:36.000 I'm not out strolling.

03:22:38.000 I'm just going to go for a walk.

03:22:39.000 Yeah, I'm not strolling.

03:22:41.000 Even that...

03:22:42.000 Is an example of you beating the weakness in your mind that, well, this is good enough.

03:22:48.000 I could do this level of conditioning and stay in shape, but I'm not challenged anymore.

03:22:53.000 There is the guy who does that and just maintains, and then the guy who you are that continuously adds one more plate because that makes it just hard enough to know that boy couldn't get any harder and I still did it.

03:23:10.000 That's strength, bro.

03:23:12.000 There's a little bit of that to it, too, but it's not even that I don't feel like a sense of satisfaction when it's over.

03:23:19.000 I just feel like, okay, we shored up the gates for the day.

03:23:22.000 That's it. 0.96

03:23:24.000 Even a great fucking workout, I feel physically good, I feel relaxed, and I feel comfortable, but I never feel accomplished. 1.00

03:23:32.000 I never feel like, yeah, gotcha, bitch. 1.00

03:23:35.000 No. 1.00

03:23:36.000 Every day, it's like, you gotta conquer that inner bitch. 1.00

03:23:39.000 Every day. 1.00

03:23:40.000 That's the one. 1.00

03:23:41.000 The inner bitch. 1.00

03:23:42.000 The inner bitch is a monster. 1.00

03:23:43.000 You gotta fight that inner bitch till this day. 1.00

03:23:47.000 That's the real opponent. 1.00

03:23:48.000 When I say me, it's my inner bitch. 1.00

03:23:51.000 We all have an inner bitch. 1.00

03:23:52.000 There it is. 1.00

03:23:53.000 Yeah.

03:23:53.000 And that's what we do until this day.

03:23:55.000 I have t-shirts that say it. 1.00

03:23:57.000 Conquer your inner bitch. 1.00

03:23:58.000 I've been saying that forever. 1.00

03:24:00.000 Yeah, you go to higherprimate.com.

03:24:02.000 I have...

03:24:05.000 I have a lot of faith in that if you could do something that you find that's very difficult and it tests you and it makes you rise, it makes you push.

03:24:20.000 It makes the rest of the life easier.

03:24:22.000 I really believe that.

03:24:23.000 And I think that's a philosophy that a lot of people should embrace.

03:24:27.000 It's not my way.

03:24:28.000 You could do it other ways.

03:24:30.000 You could do it through running.

03:24:31.000 You could do it through yoga.

03:24:32.000 You could do it through meditation.

03:24:33.000 But you should do something that's hard.

03:24:35.000 I don't think people should be living a life where everything's easy.

03:24:39.000 That's a nonsense life.

03:24:41.000 I don't think that's good for you.

03:24:43.000 Right.

03:24:43.000 And comfort and being able to just continuously do what you're good at and not stretch, not go into that other space where it might not work, like the skill set that you have and have home.

03:24:55.000 That's what I had to do when COVID hit and boxing stopped.

03:24:59.000 Yeah.

03:25:00.000 That was the premise for that show till this day.

03:25:03.000 Beautiful.

03:25:04.000 And that's what we did here today.

03:25:06.000 The conversation you and I had is much like the structure of that show. 0.71

03:25:10.000 And finding that inner bitch as your opponent is what I had the opportunity to do with my other friends as we had a discussion not unlike ours. 1.00

03:25:18.000 And it required me to go outside of my comfort zone, not talk to boxers, but talk to people who I thought I knew and see if the conversation there about the passion that I have for understanding the fight in them Could be made something that was interesting to everybody, 0.85

03:25:34.000 including the guests.

03:25:35.000 And I think that we did that here today, and we did that 15 times until this day.

03:25:40.000 Indeed, my friend.

03:25:42.000 Luminary is where you find it.

03:25:43.000 Apple Podcasts is also where you can get it.

03:25:46.000 Joe Rogan, thank you for this experience.

03:25:48.000 My pleasure, brother.

03:25:49.000 It's always great.

03:25:49.000 We'll do it again.

03:25:50.000 We'll do it again, for sure.

03:25:51.000 Very kind and generous.

03:25:52.000 And as are you.

03:25:53.000 Thank you.

03:25:54.000 All right.

03:25:54.000 Goodbye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - May 06, 2022

Joe Rogan Experience #1814 - Radio Rahim

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